1
00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:09,640
Speaker 1: Tenacity is one of the most important qualities anyone can have.

2
00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:12,880
Speaker 1: When you get knocked off the horse, you saddle back

3
00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:16,080
Speaker 1: up and you keep ongoing. We've talked to a lot

4
00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:20,880
Speaker 1: of folks on Battleground about tenacity, being resilient in the

5
00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:25,680
Speaker 1: face of battles that we fight every single day. By

6
00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:29,240
Speaker 1: never giving up in the face of life's greatest challenges,

7
00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:35,000
Speaker 1: we discover just how much grit we really have. Get

8
00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:38,960
Speaker 1: back on the horse is a common expression, but today's

9
00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:44,400
Speaker 1: guest embodies it more than anyone. Braxton McCoy is an

10
00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:47,680
Speaker 1: Army veteran who is blown up by a suicide bomber

11
00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:50,159
Speaker 1: in two thousand and six, and he was told that

12
00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:54,680
Speaker 1: he would never walk again. After a long journey to recovery,

13
00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:58,040
Speaker 1: which he recounts in his book called The Glass Factory,

14
00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:01,120
Speaker 1: it's amazing. You should definitely go and get it. Braxton

15
00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:05,200
Speaker 1: has made almost a full recovery and now he lives

16
00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:07,920
Speaker 1: as a horse trainer. So if anyone knows what it

17
00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:10,880
Speaker 1: means to get back on the horse of Braxton. We

18
00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:15,959
Speaker 1: had an amazing conversation about life, about love of country,

19
00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:26,800
Speaker 1: about service, loyalty, dedication, and I hope that you enjoy it. Braxton,

20
00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:29,759
Speaker 1: Welcome to Battleground man, Thank you so much for joining us.

21
00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:33,160
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me Sean. I'm been excited to bes

22
00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:34,240
Speaker 2: with you for a while, so.

23
00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:38,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, me too. I mean, you have such an incredible story.

24
00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:44,560
Speaker 1: You're in Iraq combat veteran Ramadi. Right, you were wounded

25
00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:47,480
Speaker 1: in two thousand and six, right, correct, the same year

26
00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:50,600
Speaker 1: I was wounded, only I was in Afghanistan, not Iraq.

27
00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:54,360
Speaker 1: And you just do some pretty amazing stuff. The story

28
00:01:54,440 --> 00:02:00,440
Speaker 1: of your recovery is unbelievable. And we were talking prior

29
00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:05,200
Speaker 1: to jumping in to go and live about the perils

30
00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:09,840
Speaker 1: of being political. And I know that I'm having run

31
00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:11,880
Speaker 1: two back to back campaigns. I know it's a little

32
00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:14,919
Speaker 1: bit of a shit show. But you said people have

33
00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:16,520
Speaker 1: approached you about running.

34
00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:19,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I've had a couple. I've had a

35
00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:23,120
Speaker 2: couple of people, even some people Washington d C types

36
00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:28,560
Speaker 2: at one point. And I helped years ago. It would

37
00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:30,720
Speaker 2: have been in fact, it would have been two thousand

38
00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:34,120
Speaker 2: and eight. I sort of helped a guy in Utah

39
00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:36,720
Speaker 2: a little bit. And I don't want to use his

40
00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:42,200
Speaker 2: name because I'm gonna say some but he I liked him,

41
00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:44,880
Speaker 2: you know, and everything and The main reason I kind

42
00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:47,080
Speaker 2: of got excited about this guy is that, if you remember,

43
00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:50,680
Speaker 2: right around that time, there was a two year backlog

44
00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:53,960
Speaker 2: in the VA, so you do, I remember that it

45
00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:56,240
Speaker 2: was crazy and so like a guy like me, they

46
00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:59,680
Speaker 2: retired me as an E five. So you know what,

47
00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:02,360
Speaker 2: roughly four years in I can't remember the exact numbers,

48
00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:04,960
Speaker 2: but roughly four years in is n E five. Once

49
00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:08,520
Speaker 2: I was medically retired at ninety percent disability from the army,

50
00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:12,160
Speaker 2: my monthly was like thirteen hundred bucks because you know,

51
00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:14,280
Speaker 2: they they do the way they do their math, right.

52
00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:17,400
Speaker 1: So wait, wait, you were only ninety percent yeah, from

53
00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:20,840
Speaker 1: the army. Yeah, so they didn't even look. I mean,

54
00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:23,200
Speaker 1: I'm glad that you're not one hundred percent disabled, and

55
00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:25,760
Speaker 1: I think you know, but still, like if people go

56
00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:29,560
Speaker 1: to your website is what is it, braxmaccoy dot com,

57
00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:31,959
Speaker 1: Like you can see pictures of your injuries. I don't

58
00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:33,440
Speaker 1: even know how you survived. How the hell are you

59
00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:34,360
Speaker 1: only ninety percent?

60
00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:39,640
Speaker 2: Well, so the MEBPEB processes is an interesting one too,

61
00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:41,320
Speaker 2: especially back then. I mean, I guess I don't know

62
00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:43,320
Speaker 2: how it is now, but the way it was back then.

63
00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:47,640
Speaker 2: Every you know, when you're injured that bad, you have

64
00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:51,680
Speaker 2: like a whole team, right, And every surgeon on that

65
00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:55,320
Speaker 2: team told me they are going to offer you. First

66
00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:56,960
Speaker 2: of all, they're going to offer you a bad number.

67
00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:00,880
Speaker 2: Don't take that number, give an attorney. And then secondly,

68
00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:03,600
Speaker 2: they're going to offer you this deal to stay in

69
00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:06,760
Speaker 2: for five years and reclass you know, and all of this.

70
00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:09,440
Speaker 2: And they all said, do not take that, because all

71
00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:11,040
Speaker 2: that is going to happen is you're going to get

72
00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:12,960
Speaker 2: a little better in five years and you're still going

73
00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:14,840
Speaker 2: to be four f and they're gonna boot you and

74
00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:16,320
Speaker 2: you just get even less money.

75
00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:16,599
Speaker 1: Right.

76
00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:21,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I listened, you know, one of the few deal.

77
00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:23,760
Speaker 2: Like I was pretty hard headed back then, but I

78
00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:26,600
Speaker 2: did listen to them on this one. And the initial

79
00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:29,520
Speaker 2: disability rating they gave me was, like I want to say,

80
00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:33,400
Speaker 2: it was thirty thirty percent. And they raided my legs

81
00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:36,560
Speaker 2: at a zero and my right hand at like thirty

82
00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:39,040
Speaker 2: and that's how they that's how they came up with

83
00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:42,360
Speaker 2: thirty What Yeah, man, it.

84
00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:47,200
Speaker 1: Was they rated your legs as a zero. Yeah. Yeah.

85
00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:50,920
Speaker 1: They cut you from your knees to your hips. Yeah,

86
00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:54,960
Speaker 1: oh yeah. You were bedridden for months with external fixators

87
00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:57,240
Speaker 1: on your legs. I mean so just so the audience

88
00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:00,800
Speaker 1: is tracking like you were you the brunt of a

89
00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:06,360
Speaker 1: suicide bomber in Ramadi and had for thousands of Paul Bearings.

90
00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:08,599
Speaker 1: It seems like, I hate to laugh about it, but

91
00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:11,960
Speaker 1: I can't believe you survived. I can't believe you survived that.

92
00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:16,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's I'm just blessed man. In fact, I know

93
00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:19,400
Speaker 2: you're a Pennsylvania guy. The colonel that died there, Micha mcgloughlin,

94
00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:20,360
Speaker 2: is from Pennsylvania.

95
00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:23,599
Speaker 1: It's from Mercer. I remember when that happened, which is

96
00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:26,560
Speaker 1: the crazy the military. You know. I'm sure you've heard

97
00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:29,320
Speaker 1: the phrase Braxton about how it's like a small world

98
00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:32,760
Speaker 1: and how almost everybody you know is connected in some way.

99
00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:37,400
Speaker 1: It's when I was reading about your story and you've

100
00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:40,359
Speaker 1: got this amazing book called The Glass Factory, and you

101
00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:42,880
Speaker 1: should all go get it. What's amazing about it is

102
00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:45,120
Speaker 1: like when I first started writing out Lovelatune is you're

103
00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:49,320
Speaker 1: confronted with all of these dilemmas of how clean do

104
00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:53,200
Speaker 1: you want this story to read? And I remember like

105
00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:57,040
Speaker 1: reading World War two memoirs from generals and thinking like

106
00:05:57,080 --> 00:05:59,720
Speaker 1: they talk about war like it's like a damn chessboard

107
00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:02,760
Speaker 1: or so like it's clean, but it ain't. It's the

108
00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:07,359
Speaker 1: last thing from clean. And I wanted to sort of

109
00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:11,600
Speaker 1: write Awards an all story, and and your story is

110
00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:14,919
Speaker 1: just a roller coaster ride man of highs and lows

111
00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:19,200
Speaker 1: about being what it's like being a brand new soldier,

112
00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:27,000
Speaker 1: being in combat, the chaos around being blown up and wounded,

113
00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:29,320
Speaker 1: and the questioning your own like whether or not you're

114
00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:33,120
Speaker 1: gonna survive. What struck me the most, Braxton, Actually, so

115
00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:36,479
Speaker 1: many things struck me was how you were thinking. You know,

116
00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:41,400
Speaker 1: you were wounded in your twenties, right, and all of

117
00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:45,000
Speaker 1: a sudden you were dealing with all of these existential,

118
00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:49,080
Speaker 1: huge questions about life. Am I going to live or die?

119
00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:52,400
Speaker 1: I'm beddurden here. I was a twenty year old in

120
00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:54,040
Speaker 1: my prime, and now I can't even go to the

121
00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:56,880
Speaker 1: bathroom by myself. Like, those are questions that most people

122
00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:59,279
Speaker 1: don't have to deal with until they're in their sixties

123
00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:01,200
Speaker 1: or seventy years old. Oh, you've got friends that have

124
00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:04,800
Speaker 1: passed away. It's just like there's something about being in

125
00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:07,839
Speaker 1: war and being in combat that makes people grow up

126
00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:09,080
Speaker 1: really fast.

127
00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:13,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, it accelerates the kind of timeline of your life.

128
00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:18,000
Speaker 2: For sure. I was essentially in a not quite hospice

129
00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:20,760
Speaker 2: but almost like a hospice like situation at you know,

130
00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:26,160
Speaker 2: twenty and yeah, it's and to your point about the

131
00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:29,960
Speaker 2: warts and all type of writing. When I decided to

132
00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:32,680
Speaker 2: write that, man, I was just looking around at most

133
00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:34,720
Speaker 2: of all the other books that were being written, and

134
00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:37,760
Speaker 2: I just didn't see anybody telling the story that that

135
00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:39,920
Speaker 2: I was witnessing my friends go through or that I

136
00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:44,400
Speaker 2: was going through myself. And I just felt like someone

137
00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:48,240
Speaker 2: from our generation should just tell the other side of it,

138
00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:51,360
Speaker 2: you know, like or maybe not necessarily the other side,

139
00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:54,120
Speaker 2: but tell a fuller version of the story, you know.

140
00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:57,920
Speaker 2: I mean, we have the Chris Kyle's and Marcus the Trel's,

141
00:07:57,920 --> 00:07:59,960
Speaker 2: and those are all amazing guys. Like I'm not you know,

142
00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:03,360
Speaker 2: I'm not meaning to bash or anything, but we didn't

143
00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:07,520
Speaker 2: really have the just slowly you know, nobody soldier who

144
00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:10,200
Speaker 2: gets banged up. I mean, I just didn't see that

145
00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:12,080
Speaker 2: that book anywhere. So I wanted to kind of tell

146
00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:12,800
Speaker 2: that story, you.

147
00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:16,800
Speaker 1: Know, I do, And I think, you know, I talk

148
00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:20,040
Speaker 1: about this a lot, Braxton, that in that without level tune,

149
00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:22,720
Speaker 1: we were just light infantry guys. I mean most of

150
00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:26,960
Speaker 1: the you know, the you know before my guy, one

151
00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:28,840
Speaker 1: of my soldiers was carrying a machine gun in the

152
00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:31,160
Speaker 1: mountains of Afghanistan. Their job prior to that was like

153
00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:35,000
Speaker 1: high school shortstop, you know, and you know, and and

154
00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:39,360
Speaker 1: I watched these kids do just this unbelievable stuff, you know,

155
00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:43,600
Speaker 1: just one triumph of human spirit after the next. I

156
00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,240
Speaker 1: feel like in combat, my soldiers were just incredible. And

157
00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:48,960
Speaker 1: I was really lucky to have great soldiers and noncommissioned

158
00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:51,199
Speaker 1: officers who taught, coached, and mentored me every step of

159
00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:55,280
Speaker 1: the way. But I agree with you, there's nobility in

160
00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:59,560
Speaker 1: just being a kid. And I don't think you know,

161
00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:01,520
Speaker 1: I think you said your grandfather was a marine, but

162
00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:04,199
Speaker 1: he didn't want you to join the Marines. So it's

163
00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:06,280
Speaker 1: not like you can't. It doesn't seem like you came

164
00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:10,280
Speaker 1: from this long line of military noncommission officers or people

165
00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:12,560
Speaker 1: when every war, I know, I didn't. And I just

166
00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:15,280
Speaker 1: think there's nobility in somebody who's like for me, and

167
00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:16,679
Speaker 1: I know it was for you too, but was his

168
00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:20,720
Speaker 1: nine to eleven. We get attacked and we rise up

169
00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:23,199
Speaker 1: and we respond to it. And I saw that nobility

170
00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:25,920
Speaker 1: and my soldiers, and I saw it in your memoir

171
00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:26,360
Speaker 1: as well.

172
00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:30,800
Speaker 2: Thanks man, I really appreciate that and me too. The

173
00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:35,120
Speaker 2: stuff you see people do and combat is like even

174
00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:37,760
Speaker 2: just you know what we're talking about, Colonel McLoughlin, you

175
00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:42,480
Speaker 2: know him, just the for him to be there is

176
00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:45,079
Speaker 2: a noble act in and of itself. You know, he's

177
00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:47,360
Speaker 2: surrounded by a bunch of e fours and fives and

178
00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:50,040
Speaker 2: a couple of sixes. And this guy's a light colonel.

179
00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:53,719
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, like that doesn't that just doesn't. He

180
00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:54,440
Speaker 2: doesn't have.

181
00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:54,719
Speaker 1: To be there.

182
00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:56,840
Speaker 2: Put it like that, and everybody knew how bad of

183
00:09:56,840 --> 00:09:58,440
Speaker 2: a spot it was, and he did it anyway. And

184
00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:02,360
Speaker 2: to me, that's a noble, very courageous act. And you

185
00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:09,760
Speaker 2: know he unfortunately died tragic in that sense, but yeah,

186
00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:14,679
Speaker 2: that the human spirit and that it would take to man,

187
00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:18,440
Speaker 2: it's hard to even articulate, like now I'm a dad,

188
00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:21,800
Speaker 2: Now I wasn't then, right, And so for this guy

189
00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:26,080
Speaker 2: to he had every reason not to be there, you know,

190
00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:29,160
Speaker 2: both on state side and you know in the war,

191
00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:32,679
Speaker 2: like he he could have easily been behind you know,

192
00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:36,240
Speaker 2: behind the wire all day, you know, and certainly didn't

193
00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:37,920
Speaker 2: have to go out of his way to show up

194
00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:42,200
Speaker 2: at a you know, a nightmarish, riotous situation outside the

195
00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:43,880
Speaker 2: gate that he wasn't even like supposed to be on

196
00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:44,920
Speaker 2: that mission, you know.

197
00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:48,200
Speaker 1: So yeah, even just that is one.

198
00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:50,440
Speaker 2: Of those those sort of acts of the kind of

199
00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:52,640
Speaker 2: indomitable will that you're talking about.

200
00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:56,560
Speaker 1: And it's amazing, It is amazing, and and I feel

201
00:10:56,600 --> 00:11:00,240
Speaker 1: like you come so you go through all of this

202
00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:06,120
Speaker 1: stuff and you're witnessing these I mean, it's not even necessarily,

203
00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:10,160
Speaker 1: you know, acts of heroism, as you know, when you

204
00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:13,679
Speaker 1: think about the military or guys being in combat like

205
00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:16,280
Speaker 1: like things that they do, right, it's not even so

206
00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:18,000
Speaker 1: much that it's just the fact, like you said, the

207
00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:21,280
Speaker 1: fact that he was just there, that he decided, at

208
00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:23,079
Speaker 1: some point in time in his life could have done

209
00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:26,000
Speaker 1: anything but the volunteer to serve this country knowing that

210
00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:28,760
Speaker 1: we were going to war, knowing that you might not

211
00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:32,880
Speaker 1: come home. There's something to that that at least after

212
00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:35,040
Speaker 1: nine to eleven. And I think I say our generation

213
00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:36,439
Speaker 1: because I think I'm just a little bit o. I

214
00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:38,960
Speaker 1: was a couple I joined. I graduated high school in

215
00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:41,240
Speaker 1: two thousand. I think you said you graduated in two

216
00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:43,760
Speaker 1: thousand and three, right, so we're pretty close in age.

217
00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:48,520
Speaker 1: But I feel like nine to eleven inspired that entire generation,

218
00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:53,040
Speaker 1: I think, and so much of your story resonated with

219
00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:58,240
Speaker 1: me because of that. Braxton, and have you. I mean,

220
00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:00,440
Speaker 1: we're talking about politics when we first started, and I

221
00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:01,960
Speaker 1: feel like this interview is going to go back and

222
00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:05,680
Speaker 1: forth a little bit, but like, do you has your

223
00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:09,559
Speaker 1: experience in combat shaped your shaped how you think about

224
00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:14,000
Speaker 1: war in this country moving forward at all? Yeah?

225
00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:17,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, In fact, I kept a journal while I was

226
00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:20,800
Speaker 2: over there at first, and then you know, eventually it

227
00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:22,719
Speaker 2: was just in fact, I think there's a page in

228
00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:24,680
Speaker 2: there that just says, I don't have anything else to say.

229
00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:27,480
Speaker 1: It was like the last and that was for me.

230
00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:31,679
Speaker 2: It was that was the moment that you know, that

231
00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:34,600
Speaker 2: like when I was there, was the moment that I

232
00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:36,720
Speaker 2: shifted when I when I first got there, I was

233
00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:39,720
Speaker 2: kind of a rabid, neo con you know, just wanted

234
00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:44,480
Speaker 2: to beat up the people that you know, and then

235
00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:48,679
Speaker 2: after a couple of months, you see, you know, you

236
00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:51,720
Speaker 2: see what foreign policy looks like from twenty yards and

237
00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:55,160
Speaker 2: I don't know, man, you can never you can never

238
00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:58,000
Speaker 2: go back. And yeah, it it changed, not just the

239
00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:02,000
Speaker 2: way I view our you know, the way we make war,

240
00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:04,520
Speaker 2: but just our political machine in general.

241
00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:05,719
Speaker 1: Like there was a.

242
00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:09,640
Speaker 2: Kid on our team that our guy rather on our team.

243
00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:11,439
Speaker 2: I'm still friends with him, but he was kind of

244
00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:14,200
Speaker 2: a lefty right and he was anti war, you know,

245
00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:17,920
Speaker 2: typical like peace sign type character, and we all thought

246
00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:21,200
Speaker 2: he was a dork, you know, he drove crazy, and

247
00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:24,160
Speaker 2: then like three months in we're like, you know, Reg

248
00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:24,680
Speaker 2: was right.

249
00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:33,320
Speaker 1: It's just so much, so much I remember thinking, I

250
00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:35,760
Speaker 1: think I'm remembering this now. It's so much of it

251
00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:38,320
Speaker 1: was just such bullshit, Like because I was just a

252
00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:41,240
Speaker 1: regular army guy, you know, is listening to your interview

253
00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:43,960
Speaker 1: with Jocko like something that I did not know and

254
00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:47,280
Speaker 1: not having seals at our friends and had lots of

255
00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:50,680
Speaker 1: FaceTime with those guys after being out. Now, I didn't

256
00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:52,720
Speaker 1: know that they could do what they wanted over there,

257
00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:55,959
Speaker 1: you know. You like he's like sitting there talking to you,

258
00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:57,640
Speaker 1: He's like, well, we just like if we wanted to

259
00:13:57,679 --> 00:13:59,439
Speaker 1: do a mission, we'd do it, and if we didn't,

260
00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:03,440
Speaker 1: we didn't. I'm like, are you kidding me? Does that world?

261
00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:07,480
Speaker 1: Because you could I listened to that, I'm like hot,

262
00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:11,080
Speaker 1: they never got a tasking I feel like every minute

263
00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:14,960
Speaker 1: of our day, just being regular army guys, was just

264
00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:18,320
Speaker 1: occupied with one with mundane bullshit. And I mean not that,

265
00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:21,440
Speaker 1: not that I in Afghanistan. I I believed in the

266
00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:26,040
Speaker 1: mission like you I, especially back in the day I was.

267
00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,160
Speaker 1: I was very much a neocon and around the time,

268
00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:31,240
Speaker 1: at the same time we talk about the VA backlog,

269
00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:34,240
Speaker 1: and this was all around. Like when I got out

270
00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:36,920
Speaker 1: of the military, everyone was debating the surge in Iraq

271
00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:41,720
Speaker 1: and all this other stuff. And I just feel like

272
00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:46,640
Speaker 1: my I used to advocate very much for the wars,

273
00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:48,680
Speaker 1: and I think back then it was like, hey, look,

274
00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:51,240
Speaker 1: we're already, We're already there, our war fighters are already

275
00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:53,120
Speaker 1: on the ground. If we're going to actually get involved

276
00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:54,720
Speaker 1: in a fight, well we sure have helped better win,

277
00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:57,720
Speaker 1: you know. We sure felt better to find what victory

278
00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:00,600
Speaker 1: or an end state looks like. So that's not half

279
00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:02,880
Speaker 1: asked this. Let's get the job done, and let's get

280
00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:05,160
Speaker 1: it done right. But now that we're out, it feels

281
00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:09,840
Speaker 1: like to me, you know, having just gone through twenty

282
00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:14,360
Speaker 1: years decades of war in Iraq and Afghanistan, we might

283
00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:17,560
Speaker 1: still have Americans trapped in Afghanistan, yet we're clamoring for

284
00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:21,120
Speaker 1: war and places all over the world, but especially Ukraine.

285
00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,720
Speaker 1: And it's not like I'm it's not like I'm a

286
00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:26,000
Speaker 1: fan of Putin, Like I don't care about that guy.

287
00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:28,240
Speaker 1: If he died tomorrow, the world probably be a better place.

288
00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:32,200
Speaker 1: But like, I am very hesitant about the idea of

289
00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:37,200
Speaker 1: sending Americans, our sons and daughters into a fight, into

290
00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:40,960
Speaker 1: a war when there's no clearcut mission to me or

291
00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:43,520
Speaker 1: clearcut end state. And it's like, I've seen this episode

292
00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:47,800
Speaker 1: before and I hate it. I hate it. Yeah, And

293
00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:51,760
Speaker 1: you're exactly right. The biggest problem with.

294
00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:54,720
Speaker 2: The g WATT was there was no clearly defined paths

295
00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:58,080
Speaker 2: of victory. There were no real objectives, Like occupy is

296
00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:01,840
Speaker 2: not an objective, I agree, doesn't mean anything. And in

297
00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:07,800
Speaker 2: this in the case of Ukraine, what would it even

298
00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:11,000
Speaker 2: mean to send soldiers there. I mean, you're you're going

299
00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:16,160
Speaker 2: to open a war with a rabid country that you know.

300
00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:17,840
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm sure some of them are great people.

301
00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:21,360
Speaker 2: I mean, but you know you're gonna this country has

302
00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:24,840
Speaker 2: more nuclear weapons than we do. Uh, And they're all

303
00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,360
Speaker 2: set up on a dead man's switch, so if an

304
00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:29,800
Speaker 2: exchange is initiated, they launched all of them. I mean,

305
00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:32,240
Speaker 2: this is like known stuff. We've known this since the eighties.

306
00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:36,040
Speaker 2: I mean, not revealing anything here, and you're gonna put

307
00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:39,280
Speaker 2: the entire globe bit risk for one of the most

308
00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:42,840
Speaker 2: corrupt countries in Europe. You know, it makes no sense

309
00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:43,080
Speaker 2: to me.

310
00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:46,720
Speaker 1: I And what's more is that you know this because

311
00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:48,920
Speaker 1: you you served at the same time as me. Is

312
00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:53,480
Speaker 1: that our entire military, every branch of service, evolved to

313
00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:56,880
Speaker 1: fight a counterinsurgency threat, like the whole evolution of the

314
00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:00,320
Speaker 1: brigade combat teams just and an example of this being

315
00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:02,520
Speaker 1: like we used to have in light infantry platoons or

316
00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:05,879
Speaker 1: in light infantry battalions, an air defense artillery officer with

317
00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:08,680
Speaker 1: short range air defense missile systems. Over time, we didn't

318
00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:12,520
Speaker 1: have those directly attached to battalions. They were sent up

319
00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:15,120
Speaker 1: to They were brigade with what we call brigade level assets.

320
00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:18,320
Speaker 1: In other words, the enemy that we were fighting buying

321
00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:20,680
Speaker 1: large in Afghanistan and probably I don't want to speak

322
00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:22,760
Speaker 1: for Iraq veterans, but I think in Iraq as well

323
00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:27,159
Speaker 1: didn't have close air support or rotarooing air support. Well,

324
00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:31,080
Speaker 1: that's different when you're fighting a conventional force like Russia,

325
00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:34,200
Speaker 1: and I think that so many of our politicians are

326
00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:37,480
Speaker 1: advocating for peace through strength and that we need to

327
00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:41,960
Speaker 1: stand up to Russian aggression without actually thinking about has

328
00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:46,920
Speaker 1: our force sufficiently evolved from fighting a counterinsurgency to fighting

329
00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:50,200
Speaker 1: a conventional threat like Russia again, And I don't think

330
00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:54,080
Speaker 1: that we have. And it scares the shit out of

331
00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:57,639
Speaker 1: me because I've got five kids now that I'm raising.

332
00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:01,360
Speaker 1: My oldest is fourteen. If things keep going the way

333
00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:04,640
Speaker 1: that they are, my oldest son could be fighting there

334
00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:05,840
Speaker 1: and over my dead body.

335
00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:10,560
Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, no, I feel except my my boys are young,

336
00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:14,600
Speaker 2: but I feel exactly the same way. And there to

337
00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:17,399
Speaker 2: your point about the way that we retooled, it's all

338
00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:20,320
Speaker 2: the way down to like SF elements, if you like.

339
00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:25,080
Speaker 2: We basically turned the entire Army soft system into like

340
00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:27,639
Speaker 2: an old Crift team. I mean, these are supposed to

341
00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:30,320
Speaker 2: be you dub guys, you know, unconventional warfare guys, and

342
00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:33,400
Speaker 2: now they're all just like basically Rangers with a little

343
00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:36,840
Speaker 2: bit bigger budget. I mean, we've changed everything. We're We're not.

344
00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:42,320
Speaker 2: We are definitely not spun up for a sort of

345
00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:45,240
Speaker 2: near peer threat to the extent that maybe Russia's even

346
00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:48,080
Speaker 2: a near peer. But that really doesn't matter. You know,

347
00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:50,400
Speaker 2: we're not ready to fight. I don't know, I shouldn't

348
00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:53,520
Speaker 2: say we're not ready. We probably could pull off a

349
00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:56,480
Speaker 2: conventional war, but it would take a lot of restructuring

350
00:18:56,680 --> 00:19:00,080
Speaker 2: for sure, I mean down to like the minutia of

351
00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:00,720
Speaker 2: the military.

352
00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:03,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would never count America out, you know, and

353
00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:06,200
Speaker 1: believe me when I tell you, Braxton, and I get

354
00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:08,680
Speaker 1: this sense about you as well. If our freedom or

355
00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,320
Speaker 1: our country was ever threatened, I'd be in first in

356
00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:15,480
Speaker 1: line to defend it. But I just think that those

357
00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:18,080
Speaker 1: of us that have been to war and been on

358
00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:22,040
Speaker 1: the receiving end of enemy fire and been wounded, if

359
00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:25,280
Speaker 1: we don't come home and speak up about what that

360
00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:28,760
Speaker 1: was like, or educate our political leaders about what the

361
00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:31,959
Speaker 1: cost of war is, then we're just gonna end up

362
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:35,080
Speaker 1: bumbling into the next one. And that's that's sort of

363
00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:39,959
Speaker 1: what concerns me about the dialogue that we that I

364
00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:42,960
Speaker 1: see unfold on social media every day or even really

365
00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:46,800
Speaker 1: on Capitol Hill, that if you have any question about

366
00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:49,680
Speaker 1: the war in Ukraine any at all, even even if

367
00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:55,200
Speaker 1: they're valid strategic questions, you're just a puppy. You just

368
00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:57,840
Speaker 1: are a fan of Russia, your Putin's puppet. They completely

369
00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:00,119
Speaker 1: blow you off. And it doesn't even matter that that

370
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:02,000
Speaker 1: a guy like you is served in Iraq and been

371
00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:04,399
Speaker 1: wounded and like been on the receiving end of a

372
00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:08,840
Speaker 1: war that I don't know, I sure as hell look

373
00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:11,600
Speaker 1: back at the war in Afghanistan and Iraq and have questions,

374
00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:11,879
Speaker 1: you know.

375
00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:15,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And to tell you back into the politics thing,

376
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:19,680
Speaker 2: look at how the machine.

377
00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:20,480
Speaker 1: You know, a lot of.

378
00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:22,359
Speaker 2: People on the right like we are, like to just

379
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:24,960
Speaker 2: especially the kind of older conservatives, they like to just

380
00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:28,159
Speaker 2: kind of point at the Democrats. But look at how

381
00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:34,440
Speaker 2: the you know, the RNC spent money every Joe Ken

382
00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:38,119
Speaker 2: is a good example of this, you know, very loud

383
00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:40,679
Speaker 2: out about you know, being anti war and all this.

384
00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:44,760
Speaker 2: And they wouldn't give that guy a freaking penny Masters,

385
00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:47,840
Speaker 2: anti war, not a penny, right. In fact, they spent

386
00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:49,000
Speaker 2: against him, didn't they.

387
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:53,879
Speaker 1: Yes, Masters and Joe Kent and all of those guys

388
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:59,160
Speaker 1: who thought outside the sort of well the neo conservative box, which,

389
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:02,160
Speaker 1: by the way, by the way, in my lifetime, Braxton,

390
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:04,800
Speaker 1: it wasn't too long ago, like when we were standing

391
00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:06,960
Speaker 1: up for war fighters in Afghanistan, and Iraq, you know

392
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:09,400
Speaker 1: who I was standing up to them from defending them

393
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:12,560
Speaker 1: from the radical left who wanted to balance the budget

394
00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:14,680
Speaker 1: or defunder war fighters in the middle of the fight.

395
00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:17,720
Speaker 1: And now all of a sudden, it's like every radical

396
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:20,240
Speaker 1: leftist and neokon in this country that got these little

397
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:25,000
Speaker 1: Ukrainian flags in their ext their sweater profiles. And I'm like,

398
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:29,000
Speaker 1: how the hell everything is flipped on its head now?

399
00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:33,639
Speaker 1: It feels like things have changed so fast. And I mean,

400
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:36,359
Speaker 1: if you ever think about that, but how now you

401
00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:41,800
Speaker 1: have like the left and many like mainstream establishment conservatives

402
00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:45,240
Speaker 1: just saber rattling and clamoring for war. Yeah, I mean,

403
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:46,880
Speaker 1: I think we're we're.

404
00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:50,679
Speaker 2: About one evolution away from Lindsey Graham having a trans

405
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:54,439
Speaker 2: flag in his Twitter bio, you know, like it's and

406
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:59,040
Speaker 2: if you look at the the left, there's this. In

407
00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:02,160
Speaker 2: my view, it's a myth that the left is anti

408
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:04,359
Speaker 2: war because the only time they've really been anti war

409
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:07,439
Speaker 2: is when we were killing communists or brown people. Like

410
00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:11,640
Speaker 2: they're all about wars in Europe or you know, places

411
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:15,800
Speaker 2: like this. They just they don't want any war in Iraq, Afghanistan,

412
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:18,639
Speaker 2: you know, because those people are they tick all the

413
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,680
Speaker 2: right boxes, and they surely don't want a war in Vietnam.

414
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:23,959
Speaker 2: Not that I support any of these wars, but just

415
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:26,719
Speaker 2: their perspective, they certainly don't want a war in Vietnam

416
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:31,040
Speaker 2: against Communists, right because they're all comedies. So when it

417
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:34,800
Speaker 2: comes to like Russians, you know, those are just dirty

418
00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:37,800
Speaker 2: white people. So yeah, we can shoot those guys, you know,

419
00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:39,359
Speaker 2: if you're a leftist.

420
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,600
Speaker 1: I mean, I just I just feel like sometimes Praxicton,

421
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 1: that we make decisions in this country where like we

422
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:52,080
Speaker 1: don't really have all of the information, you know, And

423
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:55,040
Speaker 1: I mean, are you worried about the future of the

424
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:57,120
Speaker 1: you've got You said you've got kids, man, and having

425
00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:01,960
Speaker 1: gone through what you went through? Word, are you worried

426
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:04,919
Speaker 1: about the future their future and the wars that they

427
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:06,560
Speaker 1: might fight in? Man?

428
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:09,760
Speaker 2: I worry about that quite a lot. I get asked

429
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:12,920
Speaker 2: all the time by friends that are also parents, would

430
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:14,840
Speaker 2: you let your son enlist or want your son to

431
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,160
Speaker 2: doing list? I say, no, no way, not right now,

432
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,240
Speaker 2: not not with the people with the heme who we

433
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,960
Speaker 2: have at the home. And I also worry a lot

434
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 2: about the economic stability of this country. You know that

435
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 2: worries me almost more than are, Like, you know, are

436
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:33,479
Speaker 2: my kids even gonna grow up in a Are they

437
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:35,520
Speaker 2: going to grow up in a system with three banks?

438
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:37,960
Speaker 2: You know, they're gonna have to go to Wells, Chase

439
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:40,440
Speaker 2: or JP Morgan to like now.

440
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,920
Speaker 1: They're gonna have to live with centralized digital currency, yeah right,

441
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:47,200
Speaker 1: which is scary as hell where you have a few

442
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:50,879
Speaker 1: few of those banks like Wells Fargo, Bank of America,

443
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:55,240
Speaker 1: Chase or whoever, who are a few people tracking all

444
00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 1: of your purchases, you know, and they can flip a

445
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,879
Speaker 1: switch and deactive fate your digital currency so that you

446
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:05,399
Speaker 1: can't shop or provide for your family anymore. That to

447
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,159
Speaker 1: me doesn't talk about one or two evolutions away. I

448
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:10,080
Speaker 1: feel like we're not far from that either.

449
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:14,200
Speaker 2: Oh I agree, especially the you know, the climate cultest people,

450
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 2: And anytime you say this, it's like, I'm bro I'm

451
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 2: not denying that the planet is warming. I just think

452
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:23,159
Speaker 2: it's great because I live in Idaho.

453
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:25,480
Speaker 1: So like I'm all about it.

454
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:30,159
Speaker 2: But uh uh, the climate stuff, the ESG stuff, if

455
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,239
Speaker 2: they were to get us on a digital currency, then

456
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:33,920
Speaker 2: all of a sudden they can just say, well, you've

457
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:37,400
Speaker 2: you've exceeded your your family's limit of burgers for the month,

458
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:39,919
Speaker 2: so you can't spend money on burgers anymore, you know,

459
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 2: like exactly cow farts or whatever. And you know you've

460
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 2: put too much diesel in your pickup or whatever. I mean, yeah,

461
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:50,200
Speaker 2: it is terrifying, and it's a real possibility.

462
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 1: Now, it is. And not only that, Oh, you put

463
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,200
Speaker 1: too much deesel in your truck, so you've reached you've

464
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 1: you've reached your maximum amount of carbon credits this month,

465
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 1: and you've got to pay an astronomical mount for more.

466
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 1: So does what does that mean for guys like you

467
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,639
Speaker 1: and me? It means that we can't afford it. So

468
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,640
Speaker 1: so things like this disproportionately affect middle and lower income people.

469
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 1: I'm a middle class guy. But the super wealthy they're

470
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 1: not going to give a shit. They don't care about

471
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 1: this stuff. I mean, they have the money to pay

472
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:22,359
Speaker 1: for more credits, or they have they'll probably have positions

473
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 1: at these banks where they can opt out of these

474
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 1: of these programs in the first place. And I think, like,

475
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 1: you know, I joined this country after nine to eleven

476
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,360
Speaker 1: to protect America, to protect freedom. We were attacked, went

477
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:36,480
Speaker 1: to Afghanistan, and by the way, I'm never going to

478
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:38,159
Speaker 1: be one of those dudes that are like throwing my

479
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 1: medals over the fence at the White House saying screw you.

480
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,879
Speaker 1: I am proud every single day of my service. I

481
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 1: don't I don't regret being with those men like those

482
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 1: serving with my soldiers on the line was one of

483
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:51,520
Speaker 1: the greatest honors of my life. So I don't want

484
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 1: that to be taken out, you know, misinterpreted. I'm proud

485
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 1: of my service to this country, and I love this country,

486
00:25:57,760 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 1: and I do it again. But what the hell is

487
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 1: happen in right now? It feels like that, like things

488
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,920
Speaker 1: are falling apart so fast. You talk about the economic

489
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 1: situation in this country. Banks three banks in the last

490
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:16,680
Speaker 1: week have completely collapsed in on themselves like dying stars.

491
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:20,640
Speaker 1: And the FEDS responses to print and infuse an additional

492
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:22,719
Speaker 1: three hundred billion right off the bat into that system

493
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 1: and maybe two trillion dollars. We're just printing money. How

494
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 1: do how do we get out of this?

495
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:32,440
Speaker 2: And they in the scariest part to me, and listen,

496
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 2: I'm a dumbass who gets bucked off horses for money.

497
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 2: So like, take everything I say with a grain of

498
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 2: salt here. But the thing that worries me the most

499
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:44,120
Speaker 2: about this is they guaranteed all the deposits, you know,

500
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 2: so every depositor was just backed. Well, what the signal

501
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:52,399
Speaker 2: that you just sent is like, I now have to

502
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 2: move my money to the extent that I have any

503
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,440
Speaker 2: into a bank where I know my deposits will be guaranteed,

504
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,400
Speaker 2: because they're not guaranteeing it for your local credit union,

505
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 2: right or you know, your local Bank of Ireland here

506
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,880
Speaker 2: in Idaho or whatever they're they're not going to do that.

507
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,200
Speaker 2: So if I have, you know, however many thousand in

508
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 2: the bank and I'm you know, worried about my nest egg,

509
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 2: I would I would be stupid now not to move

510
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 2: that into Wales or I mean, they really forced our

511
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 2: hands here and that is terrifying that. Then you know,

512
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:28,359
Speaker 2: you've got three banks can set the terms for you know,

513
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:29,360
Speaker 2: let alone, you.

514
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 1: Know, without going into the FED.

515
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:34,359
Speaker 2: Now you have not just the FED, but you know

516
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:36,639
Speaker 2: three or four five banks can set the terms for

517
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 2: money lending in this country in perpetuity. Not only will

518
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:43,439
Speaker 2: these banks collapse, but you will not be able to

519
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,199
Speaker 2: stand up a new bank in that environment. There's no

520
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:47,920
Speaker 2: way who's going to trust.

521
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 1: You, you know, I I know, and so I I'm

522
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,199
Speaker 1: concerned about all this stuff. Do you feel do you

523
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 1: feel okay? So you signed up after nine eleven like

524
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 1: I did. Do you look back on that service? Do

525
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,920
Speaker 1: you regret it? Not? Out of it? Yeah, I'm proud.

526
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:07,919
Speaker 2: Man. No, I don't regret it at all. And I

527
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 2: would do it all over again. I you know, I'd

528
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,440
Speaker 2: probably be you know, if I could make some changes.

529
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 2: I've thought about this a lot. Man, If I could

530
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:21,119
Speaker 2: make some changes, maybe I would try to maybe I

531
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:24,640
Speaker 2: would have not went and got sort and can. But

532
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 2: even then then maybe the suicide bomber makes his way

533
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 2: into the building. And so it's I think you just

534
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 2: have to look back at everything and and and say, yeah,

535
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 2: I really I did the best I could with the

536
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 2: information I had at the time, and I can't you know,

537
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 2: the passes passed and I can't do anything about it.

538
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 2: And so with that in mind, I mean, why would

539
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 2: you like, what is there to regret? You know, like

540
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 2: if that, if that's a view, I don't regret anything.

541
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 2: I mean, it would be nice to get the couple

542
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 2: inches or you know, inch and a half back that

543
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 2: I lost out of my femurs, you know, like the

544
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 2: being able to use my right hand like a normal

545
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 2: right hand would be great, But no, I you know,

546
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't. Even with even knowing that, I

547
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:08,239
Speaker 2: would still do it over again for sure. And I

548
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 2: think the you know the guys when the guy you're referencing,

549
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 2: I remember is like a lefty or libertarian that threw

550
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 2: his medals, you know, and was crying and shit. And no, man,

551
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 2: that's just like I'm not trying to bash on him.

552
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 2: He's probably struggling to process stuff. But that kind of

553
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 2: that kind of crap is just silly. Like my medals

554
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 2: are in a box, uh, like in a safe and

555
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 2: one day my kids will care about them. So it's

556
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 2: not like I flaunt them or anything. Right, I'm proud

557
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 2: that they're there, and you know, my kids will think

558
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 2: it's cool. And so yeah, I'm you know, I'm How

559
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 2: old are your kids now, Braxton? My daughter is fifteen

560
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 2: and my boys range from five to sixteen months.

561
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 1: She she's got you got all ages, man, If you

562
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 1: if you ever had any questions, is your daughter ever

563
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 1: asked you any questions? Is she and your medals? Does

564
00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 1: she does she ask you about your service?

565
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 2: Someone at her school? I had spoken to her school

566
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 2: a few years before she went to it, and someone

567
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 2: at her school had mentioned something because I used to

568
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 2: tell her that my hand got messed up when I

569
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 2: tried to wrestle an alligator in Louisiana. So I told

570
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 2: her that for like, you know, ten years or whatever,

571
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 2: and then she she asked, and so I finally told

572
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 2: her kind of the whole story, because I figured it

573
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 2: might as well come from me and not some other,

574
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 2: you know source. So my oldest has heard some, but

575
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 2: I haven't let her read the book yet. I just

576
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 2: think she's too you know, she's too immature still to

577
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 2: fully process it.

578
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I that's interesting, man. I mean I'm dealing with

579
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 1: some of this stuff. I mean my oldest. So I've

580
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 1: got a fifteen year old, a fourteen year old to

581
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 1: twelve year old, and a ten year old. And my

582
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 1: one of the traditions in my family is after Christmas,

583
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 1: like the day after Christmas, we start watching Band of

584
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 1: Brothers and we have to finish it before New Year's

585
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 1: It's just what I've always done and I don't know why.

586
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 1: And I think for the first year ever, like let

587
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 1: our kids watch that and they you know, it's history.

588
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 1: It's and they they were at they were all studying

589
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 1: Normandy and they were studying the Holocaust in school at

590
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 1: this time. So it's like they were interested in it

591
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 1: for that reason as well, because they were learning about

592
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 1: it in school. But they realized that, hey, like my

593
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 1: dad was light infantry too. I started getting more and

594
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 1: more questions, and I've had like especially like my my

595
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 1: oldest asked. She was like, hey, you know, she had

596
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 1: asked about the book. Would you want me to read

597
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 1: the book? And my son as well? And I'm like,

598
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 1: I don't think that even though it's history, I don't

599
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 1: know that I want you to read it. So I

600
00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 1: sort of feel like you do in that regards and

601
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 1: that weird. No, I don't think it's weird.

602
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 2: I you you don't want your kid to experience kind

603
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 2: of secondhand trauma, I think is part of it. And

604
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 2: then also, I mean it's just weird to have your

605
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 2: kid read a book about you, you know what I mean.

606
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 2: It's like, look, how cool I was? You know, Yeah,

607
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 2: this is kind of.

608
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 1: I agree it probably it probably is just that simple,

609
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, it's just a crazy It's like everything

610
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 1: comes full circle. You know. I'm grateful that I didn't

611
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 1: have kids going to deploying. I don't know how I

612
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 1: would have done it. I really don't.

613
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know.

614
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 1: I mean so, so take me back, So how did you?

615
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 1: How did you make it through? I was wounded as well.

616
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 1: I didn't have injuries like yours. I had a traumatic

617
00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:59,240
Speaker 1: brain injury and I struggled a lot with that in

618
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 1: the years after I got out. But you had so

619
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 1: many injuries. And the reason why I'm asking this practent

620
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 1: is I was watching I think I was watching like

621
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 1: eighteen eighty three, and do you ever see that? Do

622
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 1: you ever see that? You were watch that?

623
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:13,239
Speaker 2: I think my wife and I tried to watch one

624
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 2: episode and I fell asleep.

625
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gonna wonder how somebody like you, like,

626
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 1: are you watching how they ride horses? And you're thinking, well,

627
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 1: that ain't how you do it? Does that?

628
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 2: My old drive me crazy with that? And now I'm

629
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 2: totally that guy. I'm totally that guy. It might drives

630
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 2: my wife insane, Yeah, I do. One of the we

631
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 2: watched Yellowstone when it first came out. We watched a

632
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 2: couple episodes, and in the beginning of the show, this

633
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 2: character is like training this horse and I'm like, oh,

634
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 2: my Ward, you couldn't take twenty minutes to learn how

635
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 2: to swing a rope wipe with that looking like dummy.

636
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's those shows are I mean, I'm glad

637
00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 1: the people.

638
00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 2: Like them or whatever. I'm happy for them, but no,

639
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 2: they're not really not really my thing.

640
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 1: Well, the the reason why I brought it up is

641
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 1: because somebody gets somebody like gets shot with an arrow

642
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 1: or something like that and and dies because of the infection.

643
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 1: And I'm thinking like, well, God, like all of the

644
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:19,840
Speaker 1: infections that you had, and like, there's no way you

645
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 1: would have survived that, no, without the care that we

646
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:28,799
Speaker 1: have here in this country, right, I mean, yeah, I'm

647
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 1: thinking about from the time that you were on the

648
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,239
Speaker 1: battlefield and you didn't even know you thought that you

649
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:37,880
Speaker 1: were torn in half, and you learn that you weren't,

650
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 1: and then you're eve act at multiple different places and

651
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:44,760
Speaker 1: you're sort of in an out of consciousness the whole time,

652
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:49,879
Speaker 1: and it seems like you got like holes all through

653
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:54,359
Speaker 1: your body. I just don't understand, like, there's no way

654
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 1: you would have survived that even twenty thirty years ago.

655
00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 1: I feel like, I mean I might be wrong, but no, no,

656
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 1: You're totally right.

657
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:02,880
Speaker 2: I had surgeons tell me that I probably would not

658
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 2: have survived a year before if they didn't have the

659
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:08,400
Speaker 2: because you know, they had stood up a new surgical

660
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 2: facility in Flujah or improved it or whatever. And then obviously, uh,

661
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 2: I keep trying to say Bethesda, but not Bethesda there

662
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:24,160
Speaker 2: to Ragdad, no a local but anyway, Yeah, no, for sure,

663
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:26,479
Speaker 2: there's no way twenty years ago it would have lived,

664
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 2: no freaking way. Even at the beginning, like in the invasion,

665
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:34,879
Speaker 2: I would have died for sure, two thousand and five,

666
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:38,799
Speaker 2: like the year I got there, I might have died

667
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:42,320
Speaker 2: in the beginning, honestly, just because we just didn't have Charlie.

668
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:44,919
Speaker 2: Med wasn't quite up to snuff at the time. So yeah,

669
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 2: there's no chance. And the infection part, that was the

670
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:53,239
Speaker 2: scariest thing for me. I mean, it was all bad,

671
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 2: but that scared me. You know, I grew up with

672
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:58,239
Speaker 2: livestock and I've seen infections. I know what they you know,

673
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 2: this is not was not new to me at the time,

674
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:03,319
Speaker 2: and so when I found out that I had that

675
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:06,400
Speaker 2: bad blood infection, that's when I got really nervous, because

676
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 2: I mean, usually cow or horse gets that bad of

677
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:11,840
Speaker 2: a blood infection, they're probably just dead, you know.

678
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 1: Like blood infections are no joke. And you had I

679
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 1: mean your femurs, I mean your femurs were broken or

680
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:21,400
Speaker 1: they were they were they broken in the actual attack.

681
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, my left femur was broken in three places, and

682
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 2: my right femur was broken in two and then my

683
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:30,880
Speaker 2: both my hips were broken. My left hip was broken

684
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:33,799
Speaker 2: in two places as well, and my lower back, my

685
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 2: left hibia was broken. All the bones in my right

686
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 2: hand were broken, my right radius and ulnar were broken.

687
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:46,440
Speaker 2: My or no excuse mean my yeah, my left humors

688
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:48,879
Speaker 2: was broken. So hard to remember all these Uh yeah,

689
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 2: everything was pretty much broke. Everything you didn't have armor

690
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 2: on it. And actually some ribs were broken too, So.

691
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:59,800
Speaker 1: Jesus gone, Braxton. How did you not get a bone infection?

692
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:03,400
Speaker 1: I mean, seriously that your blood infection is scary, but

693
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 1: I all of those faking bones.

694
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:09,359
Speaker 2: So every day, at first they would take me in

695
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 2: for surgery and clean clean out the holes and stuff,

696
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:16,359
Speaker 2: because what bone infection was a real serious fear. But yeah,

697
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 2: they spend a lot of time, you know, every morning

698
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:20,640
Speaker 2: getting I couldn't eat for like a month because they

699
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:23,920
Speaker 2: would you know, you can't eat before surgery, so they

700
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 2: were just giving me like nutrients intravenously and then they

701
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 2: would take me in and clean these holes out and

702
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 2: scrape out infection and you know, go from there.

703
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 1: I mean, like as just so people are tracking like

704
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 1: you got you get hurt. And I mean, first of all,

705
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:43,479
Speaker 1: your op tempo is high, like you're running and gun

706
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 1: in Iraq. You're you're running on PSD, which is what

707
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 1: personal security detat. I don't remember what the acronym stands for,

708
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:55,279
Speaker 1: but my time, yeah, yeah, personal security detail right, and

709
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 1: you basically do in every mission. You're doing log packs,

710
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 1: you're doing raids when they come down. I mean you're

711
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:04,840
Speaker 1: you're just I don't know, I feel like you you

712
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:08,319
Speaker 1: just handled everything when you were there.

713
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 2: I mean, well, our, our guys, what really happened, Sean,

714
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:15,359
Speaker 2: was we we I mean, I don't want to say our.

715
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:18,320
Speaker 2: I'm sure your optempo was higher than mine. Ours wasn't crazy.

716
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 2: I mean we were going out basically every day. But

717
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:26,680
Speaker 2: what happened was we got there and the colonel just

718
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:33,360
Speaker 2: not McLoughlin, but are actually our commander. He basically just said, well,

719
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 2: we don't need a PSD team anymore because we're you know,

720
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 2: we're not negotiating very much right now. So you guys

721
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:42,399
Speaker 2: are essentially disbanded and broke us up into a couple

722
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 2: of elements, and then are you know, we just became

723
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:48,440
Speaker 2: kind of the headquarters whipping boy.

724
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 1: You know.

725
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, like whatever was going on, they just sent us

726
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:52,360
Speaker 2: on it.

727
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 1: So yeah, that sucks. I feel like that would be terrible,

728
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 1: Like how do you relax? Like you get these you

729
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:00,799
Speaker 1: get these taskings that I mean our op temper, we

730
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,439
Speaker 1: were doing like seven day mission cycles. We'd have one

731
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:06,240
Speaker 1: and then we'd do like three days on force protection

732
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 1: and then I would rotate into the talk and I'd

733
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 1: be the night battle captain, and then we'd have one

734
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:13,120
Speaker 1: day where we'd do a safety standown. Then we go

735
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:15,200
Speaker 1: back out and do like seven days again. At least

736
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:19,560
Speaker 1: there's some some structure to that. Like I feel like

737
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:22,879
Speaker 1: if you're just you know, the like what's coming down

738
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:24,839
Speaker 1: the pike guy, let the PSD guys handle it thirty

739
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:28,240
Speaker 1: act Like, I feel like that's really difficult work, man,

740
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 1: And I mean I feel like at that point, man,

741
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:33,400
Speaker 1: you just got to roll with the punches, you know,

742
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:36,279
Speaker 1: And I don't know how do you. How did you

743
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 1: How did you and your your men deal with that?

744
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 2: Oh? They were great, man most of the time. You know,

745
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 2: if they'd be bored if we weren't doing anything, you know,

746
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 2: when you have like a stretches. I volunteered for everything

747
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:52,799
Speaker 2: because I was like, man, I'm here. I came here

748
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 2: to war, so whatever comes down, I'll go, you know.

749
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 2: So just trying to stave off the boardom one of

750
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:01,719
Speaker 2: the wors things they did. I don't know if they

751
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:04,719
Speaker 2: did this later on, but they ended up bringing some

752
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 2: shrinks in because they were worried about like PTSD.

753
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:10,400
Speaker 1: And so we had that later. We had that like

754
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 1: at the tail end of our deployment as well, and

755
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 1: that was.

756
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 2: A freaking worse And they're like, okay, you guys have

757
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:17,839
Speaker 2: had your optipmost too high. You got to come off

758
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:21,360
Speaker 2: the line for you know, uh I forget two weeks

759
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 2: I think it was, and they put us up in

760
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 2: a guard tower.

761
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 1: And that was misery. That was absolute.

762
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:30,920
Speaker 2: There's only so much time you can spend looking at

763
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:31,880
Speaker 2: Maxim magazines.

764
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:36,839
Speaker 1: And we we had we had shrinks coming, so we

765
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:40,319
Speaker 1: were we had we were in Afghanistan like an rcast

766
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:44,400
Speaker 1: for a year and we had gone through like in

767
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:46,879
Speaker 1: two thousand and six. From January two thousand and six,

768
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 1: we did this and we were extended sometime in late

769
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 1: January of two thousand and seven and then for like

770
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:56,320
Speaker 1: and at the time like it basically said one hundred

771
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:58,520
Speaker 1: and twenty days or until mission complete, and of course

772
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 1: all of our privates were like, ah, we're gonna be

773
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:03,600
Speaker 1: here forever. They focused on the until mission complete part.

774
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:07,240
Speaker 1: Like all of these barracks, we all of a sudden

775
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:10,400
Speaker 1: had all of these experts on on on deployments, and

776
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:12,359
Speaker 1: all of our privates are like, we're never going home.

777
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:15,799
Speaker 1: And what's crazy about it, Braxton, is that like the

778
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 1: Army literally didn't have anybody to replace us, like they

779
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:21,319
Speaker 1: sent everybody to Iraq and support of the surge at

780
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:23,320
Speaker 1: that time. So all the units that were supposed to

781
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:26,759
Speaker 1: come to Afghanistan and rotate in didn't show up, and

782
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:29,880
Speaker 1: so we were just stuck. And so we were just

783
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 1: we were just stuck there, and of course everyone thought

784
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:35,479
Speaker 1: we were staying there forever, for like another year, and

785
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:39,400
Speaker 1: it was we had all these shrinks come in after

786
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 1: that because I had so like all of my troops

787
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:44,799
Speaker 1: at that point, like I was the last guy on

788
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:48,640
Speaker 1: my base doing the rip the relief in place for

789
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 1: the eighty second who was supposed to come in and

790
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 1: replace us, but ended up leaving. All my other guys

791
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:57,680
Speaker 1: were all my other troops were home Braxton, so had

792
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 1: they had already made it home, already linked with a kids,

793
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:04,200
Speaker 1: their wife like like put down payments down on houses

794
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:06,880
Speaker 1: and vacations and whatever. And MPs had to go to

795
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:10,839
Speaker 1: their houses and say, actually, sorry, not sorry, but you've

796
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 1: got to get on a burden fly back to Afghanistan.

797
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 1: Like I'm laughing about it now, But marriages fell apart,

798
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 1: soldiers went bankrupt, so we had I feel, like, you know,

799
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:25,759
Speaker 1: several shrinks rotate in and out of our firebase and

800
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:28,880
Speaker 1: eastern Afghanistan. And I laugh about it now, thinking like

801
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:31,040
Speaker 1: they didn't know what the hell they were walking into

802
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 1: with my guys, because I'd be like, well, you can't.

803
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:35,800
Speaker 1: You can't patrol for like at least a week, and

804
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:38,800
Speaker 1: as a platoonleter, I'm like, we're running with skeleton crews already.

805
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:41,160
Speaker 1: I'm like, what the hell you talking about? I can't

806
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:43,479
Speaker 1: take a squad out for a week like that ain't

807
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:48,239
Speaker 1: gonna fly, you know, right, And I mean I guess

808
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:50,239
Speaker 1: looking back on it, man, I think I'm grateful that

809
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 1: the army recognized the need for that, because there was

810
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:55,480
Speaker 1: a need for it. And I suppose they could have

811
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:57,440
Speaker 1: just sat on their hands and done nothing about it

812
00:42:57,480 --> 00:42:59,399
Speaker 1: and think why this ain't gonna work. But I'm glad

813
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:04,960
Speaker 1: that they at least tried to recognize that frontline troops

814
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 1: like there was there was nobody else. I mean, we

815
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:10,839
Speaker 1: were just rotating in and out on the field four

816
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:12,840
Speaker 1: hundred and five days in a row, man, you know,

817
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 1: but don't you.

818
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:19,320
Speaker 2: Think that speaks to the problem. It's like in a microcosm.

819
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 2: That's the problem with the g WATT Like they had

820
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 2: a freaking plan there. Yeah, and then they were pulling

821
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:31,239
Speaker 2: audibles like the surge. It's like you can't you can't

822
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:32,960
Speaker 2: audible without a play already called.

823
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 1: Right, that's a great point.

824
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:39,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like but they they just they I don't know, man,

825
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:44,920
Speaker 2: our you know, our elites are betters, are not better.

826
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 1: They're not. That's the problem. They're not. And you you

827
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:53,239
Speaker 1: talk about audible. So like the first part of our deployment,

828
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 1: the first year, our mission was strictly counterterear. You know,

829
00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 1: we went after the bad guys and we killed them,

830
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 1: and then doing that we protected the people, and the

831
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:06,680
Speaker 1: people of Afghanistan loved us because they just wanted to

832
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:09,600
Speaker 1: live freely in peace and prosperity, and we were taking

833
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:12,040
Speaker 1: care of the bad guys that were plaguing their lives.

834
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:15,239
Speaker 1: And then we had this audible in January of two

835
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 1: thousand and seven, just after we were extended where we

836
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 1: would build or just before we were extended, actually where

837
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 1: we built the very first combat outposts and we shifted

838
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 1: from counter terror to counterinsurgency, and we built all these

839
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:30,319
Speaker 1: outposts all over eastern Afghanistan. And every single private in

840
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 1: my patoon is like, Sir, this is efan stupid, Like

841
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:35,319
Speaker 1: why are we building a base here? We can't even

842
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:37,759
Speaker 1: man it with the proper combat power, and the bad

843
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 1: guys are just gonna walk right by us for a

844
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:41,239
Speaker 1: ridge line over Like, we're not gonna be able to

845
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:43,040
Speaker 1: do anything here, We're not gonna be able to patrol here,

846
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:44,839
Speaker 1: We're not going to be barely able to protect it.

847
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:48,719
Speaker 1: And I think like, first of all, they tried to

848
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:52,680
Speaker 1: overrun our outpost when we were there, it was half constructed.

849
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:54,920
Speaker 1: We killed everyone, We killed over three hundred and fifty

850
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:57,320
Speaker 1: bad guys that day with it. But we were just

851
00:44:57,400 --> 00:44:59,479
Speaker 1: lucky bracks and we caught them on a Predator drone

852
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 1: and we and we took them all out. But every

853
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:06,560
Speaker 1: year after that, an American platoon was overrunning Afghanistan precisely

854
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:08,840
Speaker 1: because of that audible, and it was like, what the

855
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:11,719
Speaker 1: hell is the plan? We're just building combat outposts all

856
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 1: over Afghanistan, living with the people there. Maybe maybe it works,

857
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:19,120
Speaker 1: maybe it doesn't. And every year, every year, it never failed.

858
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 1: In January, you'd read these reports from the generals to

859
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:25,040
Speaker 1: the politicians in Washington, all the missions on track in Afghanistan,

860
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:27,680
Speaker 1: the Afghan National Police, the Afghan Border Police, the Afghan

861
00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 1: National Army, They're all on track, full collapse in a month,

862
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 1: no accountability.

863
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:36,759
Speaker 2: And in every single grunt you talked to from the

864
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:39,560
Speaker 2: Afghanistan war would tell you from two thousand and six

865
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:42,719
Speaker 2: to twenty twenty two or whatever, or twenty twenty when

866
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:45,120
Speaker 2: they pulled out, every single one of those guys would

867
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 2: have told you, this isn't gonna work.

868
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:52,239
Speaker 1: How do we got to our generals just get it

869
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 1: so wrong? It's is it is so true, isn't it?

870
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:57,719
Speaker 1: I mean, did you have that as well? Did you

871
00:45:57,760 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 1: have guys that you served with that were like, what

872
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:00,600
Speaker 1: the hell we doing here?

873
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:07,360
Speaker 2: Like this bro, I became that guy, and the cop

874
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:12,160
Speaker 2: strategy worked in Iraq, it worked well, but Iraq in Afghanistan.

875
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:14,800
Speaker 2: I didn't go to Afghanistan. But those are different places

876
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:17,680
Speaker 2: and different wars. So like it seems like they just

877
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:21,400
Speaker 2: misapplied victories in one place, you know, and sort of

878
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:24,719
Speaker 2: thought they were you know these like these they just

879
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:29,960
Speaker 2: conflated the two countries at every turn, I think, and yeah,

880
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 2: it's it's a mess, man. And when we we were

881
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:36,880
Speaker 2: so there was at one point I remember talking to

882
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:43,839
Speaker 2: an artillery guy and I was like, hey man, uh,

883
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:46,280
Speaker 2: this whole because they had this policy in place where

884
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:49,600
Speaker 2: they would shoot eight super eights back at any mortar

885
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 2: that came onto the fob. And you know, I'm like,

886
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 2: for anybody who doesn't know, like super eights, that's a

887
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 2: one five to five, that's a big explosion. You know,

888
00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:01,080
Speaker 2: it's a blast radius of like h meters or something.

889
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 1: Huge, like those are those are our biggest guns? Like yeah, So.

890
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 2: I was like, hey man, this policy is dumb, and

891
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:15,719
Speaker 2: people are getting very upset that you keep blowing the

892
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:19,239
Speaker 2: windows out of their you know, their schools and you

893
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 2: know whatever else. They're just their neighborhoods, right, Like, how

894
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:24,400
Speaker 2: about we do like a little more scalpel and a

895
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 2: little less hammer on this thing. Like, I know, it's

896
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:28,960
Speaker 2: you're mad, you know, and you're you got that new

897
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:31,480
Speaker 2: fancy targeting system that gives you the point of origin

898
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 2: and all this, and you're excited to use it or whatever.

899
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:36,920
Speaker 2: But you're not even hitting the bad guys, dude, You're

900
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:40,839
Speaker 2: just shooting into a neighborhood. So maybe we cool with that.

901
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:43,600
Speaker 2: And of course it didn't go anywhere, you know, but

902
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:46,200
Speaker 2: you talk to the Iraqi people and they'd be like, hey,

903
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:49,319
Speaker 2: please stop blowing up our villages. And then politicians at

904
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:53,080
Speaker 2: home would get on and say, well, it's not the

905
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:57,759
Speaker 2: US is being blamed for, you know, the Al kay

906
00:47:57,880 --> 00:47:59,560
Speaker 2: At the time, it was Al Kaieda in Iraq. That

907
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:01,799
Speaker 2: the damage that the al Kada in Iraq is doing

908
00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:03,600
Speaker 2: with you know IDs and this kind of stuff is

909
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:06,320
Speaker 2: being pinned on the US. It's like, actually, only kind

910
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:09,799
Speaker 2: of you guys are also shooting you know, artillery into

911
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 2: a city, and this is like dumb, please don't do this.

912
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:16,759
Speaker 1: Ame one. I mean, it is it is such a

913
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 1: great point because and what's more, and I'll add to that,

914
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:25,120
Speaker 1: so the enemy is smart. They watch our TTPs, our tactics,

915
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:28,120
Speaker 1: techniques and procedures, and they adapt to them every day.

916
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:31,440
Speaker 1: And we were getting pounded Braxton with one twenty two

917
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 1: millimeter mortars and every day. I mean basically from I

918
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:41,839
Speaker 1: swear from September to this operation that we did over

919
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:45,759
Speaker 1: Thanksgiving of two thousand and six, we got hammered and

920
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:48,440
Speaker 1: it was accurate one twenty two fire. We ended up

921
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:51,440
Speaker 1: like doing this big battalion operation to go back and

922
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:54,239
Speaker 1: find like like investigate what they call the pooh sites,

923
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:56,279
Speaker 1: the points of origin sites, try to find where they

924
00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:58,120
Speaker 1: were shooting at us from. And we end that up

925
00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:02,239
Speaker 1: finding this one twenty two launcher. But it had a

926
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:06,480
Speaker 1: piece of like debt cord wound like three hundred meters

927
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:08,800
Speaker 1: you know, to this little bunker where they were firing

928
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 1: off these rockets. So they knew that we could track

929
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:14,279
Speaker 1: the points of origin, and they knew that we would

930
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:16,319
Speaker 1: eventually come and look at it, but they weren't going

931
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:17,759
Speaker 1: to be there because they had run a piece of

932
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:20,600
Speaker 1: debt cord or some battery operated system. And I'm thinking

933
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:25,239
Speaker 1: to myself, like damn these guys are sophisticated, you know,

934
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:27,400
Speaker 1: and so not only in your case are we firing

935
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:31,800
Speaker 1: artillery into a city and pissing everybody off like the enemy.

936
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:35,080
Speaker 1: That's clearly what the enemy wants as well. So like

937
00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:38,000
Speaker 1: even though we're shooting back, we're doing exactly what they want.

938
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:41,759
Speaker 2: One hundred percent. Man. They a thing they would do

939
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:44,520
Speaker 2: in Iraq is they would take like a mortar tube

940
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:46,480
Speaker 2: and freeze it and then put it out and so

941
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:49,200
Speaker 2: it would just basically like a time de way, you know,

942
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:51,480
Speaker 2: eventually the water would thaw and then the mortar would

943
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:54,320
Speaker 2: drop and stuff like that. Or they would put mortars

944
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:57,760
Speaker 2: like in a truck bed, so they would just fire

945
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 2: from the truck bed and your poo would be you know,

946
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:03,200
Speaker 2: at ex location and then they would just drive away.

947
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:08,520
Speaker 2: So you're shooting is nothing literally nothing, you know. Yeah,

948
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:11,480
Speaker 2: they adapt and we don't, and that's the problem. Or

949
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:15,360
Speaker 2: they adapt faster than we do maybe is the problem.

950
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:17,440
Speaker 2: You know, it's like a battleship, right, Like we're a

951
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:19,960
Speaker 2: huge battleship and they're like a little jet boat. You know,

952
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:22,440
Speaker 2: it's easy. They're agile and we're not.

953
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:25,400
Speaker 1: And you talked about occupation is not a strategy, and

954
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:28,759
Speaker 1: that's what they had us doing, you know. I mean

955
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:32,239
Speaker 1: we were at our best when we were doing what

956
00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:34,239
Speaker 1: we were trained to do as infantry, when we were

957
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:36,680
Speaker 1: you know, close with destroy the enemy. That was our

958
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:38,879
Speaker 1: mission period, end of story. That's what we trained to do.

959
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:43,040
Speaker 1: And when we were doing that, we did it better

960
00:50:43,080 --> 00:50:45,160
Speaker 1: than any other military in the history of the world.

961
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:48,680
Speaker 1: And we didn't hurt one civilian at all. When when

962
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:53,720
Speaker 1: we were empowered from on high, from a decentralized command

963
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:58,520
Speaker 1: to conduct our mission, we were extremely effective. It was

964
00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:02,360
Speaker 1: when high like like when our mission changed and the

965
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:04,480
Speaker 1: rules of engagement change, and all of a sudden, like

966
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:08,719
Speaker 1: people in Bogram were watching through a Predator drone like

967
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:11,520
Speaker 1: you know, a battle on the ground and trying to

968
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:13,960
Speaker 1: micromanage it. That's when shit hit the fan for everybody

969
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 1: in Afghanistan when they tried to micro manage the fight

970
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:18,359
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, we are an occupational force

971
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:24,040
Speaker 1: doing humanitarian assistants, bringing rice and building wells and handing

972
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:26,800
Speaker 1: out blankets, which we were we were happy and proud

973
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:28,560
Speaker 1: to do. Man, we really did believe in trying to

974
00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 1: help the Afghan people. We really did. But like that's

975
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:33,680
Speaker 1: ultimately not what we're trained to do.

976
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:38,359
Speaker 2: You know, sure, yeah, yeah, you guys were misused in

977
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:41,040
Speaker 2: the same way that you know, all of us were

978
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:44,680
Speaker 2: misused in Iraq. I got a buddy who's I think

979
00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:47,799
Speaker 2: he was a cav scout I can't remember, but he

980
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:52,280
Speaker 2: got wounded in Iraq delivering beanie babies.

981
00:51:52,920 --> 00:52:01,680
Speaker 1: You know, like, all right, it's hilarious. Yeah, told me story.

982
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:05,520
Speaker 1: Can you imagine, like you sign up to fight for

983
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:11,560
Speaker 1: freedom and you get fucking wounded delivering beanie babies. It's dude,

984
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:11,960
Speaker 1: it is.

985
00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:15,680
Speaker 2: So it's like if you tried to write this as

986
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:19,160
Speaker 2: some sort of kind of British sitcom of the Americans

987
00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:22,080
Speaker 2: in Afghanistan and Iraq or whatever, people would be like, yeah.

988
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:27,279
Speaker 1: There's no way they would do that. Oh, we not

989
00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:30,120
Speaker 1: only do we do it, we had we were delivering

990
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:33,600
Speaker 1: beanie babies and guys getting shot doing it. Oh my god, bro.

991
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:38,000
Speaker 2: Soccer balls and you know, actually, I'm not gonna tell

992
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:42,440
Speaker 2: a story that. Yeah, just all kinds of dumb, really

993
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:47,360
Speaker 2: dumb stuff. And to your point, this again, like this,

994
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:51,000
Speaker 2: this misuse of like your nation's infantry or cavalry or

995
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:54,919
Speaker 2: artillery or whatever like this, this misuse of them, yeah,

996
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:59,040
Speaker 2: is just kind of It puts a stamp on the

997
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:02,000
Speaker 2: idea that you had no freaking plan going into it

998
00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:05,719
Speaker 2: and you couldn't even develop one, Like the idea that

999
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:09,520
Speaker 2: you have cap scouts or infantry guys or whatever handing

1000
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:12,880
Speaker 2: out soccer balls and beanie babies is I mean, it's.

1001
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:16,520
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like something. It's so like something out

1002
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:19,239
Speaker 1: of the episode of the like The Office or something. Honestly, Yeah,

1003
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:23,000
Speaker 1: you know it's crazy, You're right, Like you couldn't you

1004
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:26,320
Speaker 1: couldn't write a comedy or something like that. People wouldn't

1005
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:30,960
Speaker 1: believe you. But we did that ship. Yeah, and with and.

1006
00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:32,640
Speaker 2: With the most powerful military in the world.

1007
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:35,399
Speaker 1: I mean, it's Do you ever think do you think

1008
00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:38,040
Speaker 1: like the legions, like the Roman Legions ever did stupid

1009
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:41,400
Speaker 1: stuff like that? Do you think like you don't you

1010
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:44,440
Speaker 1: don't think they did, I mean, handing out wicker hats

1011
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:49,640
Speaker 1: or something. Yeah, do you ever think that, Like at

1012
00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:51,719
Speaker 1: the time, they were kings of the hill, right, like

1013
00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:54,279
Speaker 1: they were the most powerful military in the world. They

1014
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:56,759
Speaker 1: were an empire, they were everywhere. Do you ever think

1015
00:53:56,760 --> 00:53:59,359
Speaker 1: they had people on outposts being like, why the hell

1016
00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:01,000
Speaker 1: are we what? How are we doing out here? Do

1017
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:04,000
Speaker 1: you think soldiers have changed. No, that I died know

1018
00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:08,200
Speaker 1: for sure happened. Like those dudes sitting on the equivalent

1019
00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:10,560
Speaker 1: of a cop and you know, Brittany or whatever.

1020
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:15,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, they were like, this is bullshit. Yeah, that for

1021
00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:18,160
Speaker 2: sure happened. I don't think soldiers have changed. I remember

1022
00:54:18,640 --> 00:54:21,400
Speaker 2: I read or someone read to us, I think, is

1023
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 2: how this went. But anyway, they were reading these soldiers

1024
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:28,239
Speaker 2: talking about the war, and it was meant to be

1025
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:31,400
Speaker 2: like and it did sound like someone in Iraq at

1026
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:33,839
Speaker 2: the time, and it ended up and some officer read

1027
00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:36,200
Speaker 2: this bullshit to us, but ended up being some guy

1028
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:41,719
Speaker 2: in Valley Forge, you know, and it really did kind of.

1029
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:44,719
Speaker 2: It does illustrate the point that, like stuff doesn't, the

1030
00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:46,400
Speaker 2: more things change, the more they stay the same, at

1031
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:48,359
Speaker 2: least on the human level, for sure.

1032
00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:55,360
Speaker 1: So when you found so you're going you're at Walter

1033
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:59,279
Speaker 1: read one of the compelling things that I read in

1034
00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:01,279
Speaker 1: your book as well all thems. Again, we're like, this

1035
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:05,839
Speaker 1: is a wide ranging conversation, man, But like, something else

1036
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:08,120
Speaker 1: that really struck me is that you're going through this recovery.

1037
00:55:08,160 --> 00:55:11,279
Speaker 1: You're surrounded by docs and nurses who they wear a

1038
00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:13,839
Speaker 1: rank through in the military, but they they don't really

1039
00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:16,319
Speaker 1: get it. Not that they don't do amazing things they do,

1040
00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:20,520
Speaker 1: but they've not been in combat. And you're in your

1041
00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:24,719
Speaker 1: own head every single day. Yeah, Like, how did you?

1042
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:29,040
Speaker 1: I mean? And I thought you wrote about this, it

1043
00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:32,120
Speaker 1: was just it was beautifully written, just the roller coaster

1044
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:36,400
Speaker 1: in your own head. But how did you How did

1045
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:37,920
Speaker 1: you get in the right frame of mind to make

1046
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:40,920
Speaker 1: it through that, Braxton? Because we already talked about for

1047
00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:44,520
Speaker 1: all intents and purposes, you probably shouldn't have. You shouldn't

1048
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:48,440
Speaker 1: be walking you sure shit shouldn't be fighting horses and

1049
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:50,319
Speaker 1: getting thrown off of bulls, you know.

1050
00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:54,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know I think the honest answer to that

1051
00:55:54,840 --> 00:55:57,200
Speaker 2: is I don't. I don't think I did. I just

1052
00:55:57,320 --> 00:56:00,000
Speaker 2: kept going, you know, like you say, I was trapped

1053
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:03,000
Speaker 2: in my own head and I kept going high and low.

1054
00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:06,080
Speaker 1: You know, if you could go back, if I could

1055
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:06,680
Speaker 1: go back to.

1056
00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:09,399
Speaker 2: That young that young guy, I would say, look, man,

1057
00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:11,880
Speaker 2: try to keep the highs lower and the low's higher,

1058
00:56:12,239 --> 00:56:15,879
Speaker 2: you know, But I didn't. I didn't learn that lesson

1059
00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:17,399
Speaker 2: until later in my life.

1060
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:20,440
Speaker 1: You know, how did you learn that? Like? What the

1061
00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:22,400
Speaker 1: trial and error? Really?

1062
00:56:23,120 --> 00:56:27,799
Speaker 2: Yeah? Dude, Yeah, I just I think I'm kind of

1063
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:29,480
Speaker 2: an analytical person anyway.

1064
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:31,040
Speaker 1: And so I one day I was just.

1065
00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 2: Like looking back over my life, you know, and I

1066
00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:36,759
Speaker 2: can't exactly pinpoint this, but maybe I was hiking or running.

1067
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:39,600
Speaker 2: I can't remember exactly. Well, actually one moment for sure

1068
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:43,480
Speaker 2: I can pinpoint. But but yeah, just looking back over

1069
00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:46,759
Speaker 2: everything and realizing, look, man, you have at least some

1070
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:50,640
Speaker 2: control over the depth and heights of these peaks and valleys.

1071
00:56:51,120 --> 00:56:54,239
Speaker 2: So try to like level that stuff out and things

1072
00:56:54,239 --> 00:56:56,359
Speaker 2: will kind of work out. And I, dude, I still

1073
00:56:56,360 --> 00:56:59,680
Speaker 2: get you know, wound up, you know about stuff. I'm

1074
00:56:59,719 --> 00:57:03,319
Speaker 2: definitely not perfect, but I do try. I really try

1075
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:06,360
Speaker 2: not to get too excited or too upset about anything.

1076
00:57:06,520 --> 00:57:10,440
Speaker 1: Just I bet you Jocko loved that revelation. Jocko's I

1077
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:13,640
Speaker 1: had the whole to take an extreme taking some extreme

1078
00:57:13,680 --> 00:57:18,320
Speaker 1: ownership over over what you were experiencing. I feel like

1079
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:21,520
Speaker 1: I had an epiphany like that as well. I mean

1080
00:57:22,040 --> 00:57:25,520
Speaker 1: coming back and you know, I I don't know, man,

1081
00:57:25,640 --> 00:57:28,720
Speaker 1: like I had as an officer. I struggled as well.

1082
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:31,760
Speaker 1: I had a traumatic brain injury. I wasn't myself. I

1083
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:34,040
Speaker 1: had to go through rehab at the Traumatic brain injury

1084
00:57:34,040 --> 00:57:38,160
Speaker 1: clinic at for trem New York it, you know. And

1085
00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:40,280
Speaker 1: it wasn't until I said, hey, look like I got

1086
00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:42,440
Speaker 1: to sort of pick myself up from my bootstraps here

1087
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:45,640
Speaker 1: and like you said, make the lows higher in the

1088
00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:47,560
Speaker 1: highs a little bit lower and try to find some

1089
00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:50,800
Speaker 1: middle ground and just own where I am. And so

1090
00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:55,160
Speaker 1: to Jocko's point, there is something too like taking take

1091
00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:58,520
Speaker 1: a extreme an extreme sense of ownership over one's position.

1092
00:57:59,720 --> 00:58:03,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, that's that and his idea the discipline

1093
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:08,520
Speaker 2: equals freedom or you know, they're uh profound in their brevity. Yeah,

1094
00:58:08,560 --> 00:58:10,320
Speaker 2: and that guy, if there was ever a dude that

1095
00:58:10,560 --> 00:58:12,720
Speaker 2: was made for war, it's that guy, right, Like.

1096
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:15,400
Speaker 1: I swear to God man, that is the truest thing ever.

1097
00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:18,720
Speaker 1: So I would I went and did his podcasts super unassuming, like,

1098
00:58:19,080 --> 00:58:21,680
Speaker 1: and I had I had heard about Jocko before that,

1099
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:25,600
Speaker 1: and i'd i'd and I thought like, yeah, this dude's

1100
00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:28,280
Speaker 1: the real deal. And and so I get like booked

1101
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:30,720
Speaker 1: for his podcast, right, and like I fly out there

1102
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:33,360
Speaker 1: and he's like he sends me this address is at

1103
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:35,440
Speaker 1: this Victory Mma place. I'm like, ah, this is an

1104
00:58:35,480 --> 00:58:37,840
Speaker 1: interesting place for a podcast, and he like picks me

1105
00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:42,080
Speaker 1: up and drives me there and we walk in and

1106
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:45,000
Speaker 1: like like there's all these like all these like little

1107
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:47,720
Speaker 1: octagons and people wrestling all over the floor, and I'm like,

1108
00:58:47,720 --> 00:58:49,880
Speaker 1: what the fuck is going on here? And I walk

1109
00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:53,120
Speaker 1: in there and everyone's like hey, Jocko, Jocko and like

1110
00:58:53,160 --> 00:58:55,560
Speaker 1: pointing at him, and he's like hey everybody, and like

1111
00:58:55,960 --> 00:58:58,640
Speaker 1: he walks me into this locker room and he opens

1112
00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:00,200
Speaker 1: this little door in the back of the locker room,

1113
00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:01,840
Speaker 1: and I'm thinking, is this guy, like did he just

1114
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:03,840
Speaker 1: fly me out here to kick my ass or something?

1115
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:05,920
Speaker 1: Like why are we going in a broom closet a

1116
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:08,560
Speaker 1: janitor's closet in the locker room? And we bill go

1117
00:59:08,600 --> 00:59:10,440
Speaker 1: back there and that's where his podcast studio is, and

1118
00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:12,640
Speaker 1: Echo Charles is there and he's got all these cameras

1119
00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:15,040
Speaker 1: there and I'm like, I couldn't I couldn't believe it.

1120
00:59:15,680 --> 00:59:20,800
Speaker 1: And the podcast ended up being five hours long, no

1121
00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:24,280
Speaker 1: like really no breaks of just just an intense conversation

1122
00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:27,920
Speaker 1: between Jocko and I and Echo and out Loveletune had

1123
00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:30,600
Speaker 1: already been out since twenty twelve. I did Jocko's podcast

1124
00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:32,360
Speaker 1: in twenty eighteen, so it'd already been out in like

1125
00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:35,560
Speaker 1: six or seven years at that point. But I swear

1126
00:59:35,600 --> 00:59:38,360
Speaker 1: to God, like that dude can sell some serious books.

1127
00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:40,040
Speaker 1: Like we got on there and just talked about out labitude,

1128
00:59:40,040 --> 00:59:41,439
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden it shot back up into

1129
00:59:41,480 --> 00:59:43,520
Speaker 1: like the top five hundred books on all of Amazon.

1130
00:59:43,560 --> 00:59:46,320
Speaker 1: It was a crazy It was just a crazy experience.

1131
00:59:46,360 --> 00:59:49,080
Speaker 1: And he's just a great dude, very very different from me,

1132
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:52,800
Speaker 1: you know, Like I feel like that dude was born

1133
00:59:52,920 --> 00:59:55,880
Speaker 1: for the fight, Like every part of him was born

1134
00:59:55,920 --> 00:59:59,040
Speaker 1: for the fight. And like, like we had like some

1135
00:59:59,360 --> 01:00:01,760
Speaker 1: conversation about hair. I'm like, He's like, I don't need

1136
01:00:01,800 --> 01:00:03,640
Speaker 1: hair to be successful. I'm like, well, how do you

1137
01:00:03,640 --> 01:00:05,560
Speaker 1: get on the objective and look good? Then? You know,

1138
01:00:06,120 --> 01:00:11,320
Speaker 1: like that's how different we were, you know, but Jocko

1139
01:00:11,480 --> 01:00:17,880
Speaker 1: shit ever there. Yeah, but he is like he's he's

1140
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:19,920
Speaker 1: amazing man, and what he's been able to do with that,

1141
01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:25,160
Speaker 1: and and his conversation with you was was incredible. Man,

1142
01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:26,560
Speaker 1: it was incredible.

1143
01:00:26,960 --> 01:00:31,800
Speaker 2: And you know that when I got to his when

1144
01:00:31,840 --> 01:00:33,800
Speaker 2: I got there and saw that, it was, uh, I

1145
01:00:33,800 --> 01:00:35,480
Speaker 2: don't know. I think I had already mailed him a book,

1146
01:00:35,520 --> 01:00:38,080
Speaker 2: so I knew that he well, you know, I'm a

1147
01:00:38,080 --> 01:00:40,080
Speaker 2: big fight fan, so I already knew that he had

1148
01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:42,320
Speaker 2: a gym, but when I got the address for the

1149
01:00:42,320 --> 01:00:44,400
Speaker 2: podcast and saw it was at the gym, I was thinking,

1150
01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:46,240
Speaker 2: this is like the most jocko thing I've ever heard

1151
01:00:46,240 --> 01:00:49,080
Speaker 2: in my life. And then, like you say, you go

1152
01:00:49,160 --> 01:00:50,920
Speaker 2: up and it's in the locker room. It's just like

1153
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:55,400
Speaker 2: another level of I know, yeah he's yeah, he's something.

1154
01:00:55,440 --> 01:01:01,160
Speaker 2: But and everything about that guy is uh. Man, he's

1155
01:01:01,280 --> 01:01:03,520
Speaker 2: unique in that there is I don't know if I've

1156
01:01:03,560 --> 01:01:09,840
Speaker 2: ever met somebody before that is just man, it's hard

1157
01:01:09,840 --> 01:01:10,280
Speaker 2: to describe.

1158
01:01:10,360 --> 01:01:13,720
Speaker 1: Like he is everything that you think that.

1159
01:01:13,720 --> 01:01:15,640
Speaker 2: He is if you're like a fan of his or whatever.

1160
01:01:16,200 --> 01:01:19,000
Speaker 2: But then he's also more like the private stuff, you know,

1161
01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:22,200
Speaker 2: like he does some things in the private world that

1162
01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:25,520
Speaker 2: would shock the shit out of people if they knew. Like,

1163
01:01:25,600 --> 01:01:28,800
Speaker 2: he's also an even better guy than you think, you

1164
01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:30,280
Speaker 2: know what I mean, He's a great at your fan

1165
01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:31,440
Speaker 2: or whatever. He's the best.

1166
01:01:31,600 --> 01:01:34,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, he really. I bet you sold some serious books

1167
01:01:34,400 --> 01:01:36,840
Speaker 1: when you were on this show. Yeah, we did pretty

1168
01:01:36,920 --> 01:01:37,280
Speaker 1: dang good.

1169
01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:40,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, we sold out of hardcovers in like twenty minutes

1170
01:01:41,040 --> 01:01:44,480
Speaker 2: or something like, yeah, or a day maybe I forget,

1171
01:01:44,520 --> 01:01:46,520
Speaker 2: but yeah, it was. It was incredible. And the guy,

1172
01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:48,040
Speaker 2: you know, he's like built.

1173
01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:53,440
Speaker 1: Like a battle orc. You know, he really is sitting

1174
01:01:53,440 --> 01:01:55,960
Speaker 1: across the table from you reading your book to.

1175
01:01:56,120 --> 01:01:59,360
Speaker 2: You know, to you it's like weird. It's like it's

1176
01:01:59,360 --> 01:02:00,360
Speaker 2: a surreal experience.

1177
01:02:00,560 --> 01:02:03,280
Speaker 1: And he reads them. He really does read them, you know,

1178
01:02:03,440 --> 01:02:08,280
Speaker 1: and he's and he thinks about them. And yeah, I

1179
01:02:08,320 --> 01:02:10,600
Speaker 1: have nothing but positive things to say about that guy.

1180
01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:16,520
Speaker 1: Like he's he's one of a kind for sure. And yeah,

1181
01:02:16,560 --> 01:02:18,400
Speaker 1: like I was like driving like I was doing like

1182
01:02:18,440 --> 01:02:20,520
Speaker 1: it was campaigning or something for Congress, and I was

1183
01:02:20,560 --> 01:02:22,760
Speaker 1: like driving into a subway or I was doing something

1184
01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:25,000
Speaker 1: some fundraiser out in Philadelphia, was driving across the state.

1185
01:02:25,040 --> 01:02:27,600
Speaker 1: So in the middle of nowhere Pennsylvania like pull into

1186
01:02:27,640 --> 01:02:29,440
Speaker 1: like a rest stop or maybe it was in Maryland.

1187
01:02:29,520 --> 01:02:32,280
Speaker 1: I don't even know, Like like go into a subway

1188
01:02:32,280 --> 01:02:34,240
Speaker 1: and a gas station or something. I'm order and a sandwich.

1189
01:02:34,360 --> 01:02:36,160
Speaker 1: Is like six months after his podcast, and he's like,

1190
01:02:36,800 --> 01:02:39,560
Speaker 1: are you Sean Parnell, I'm like wait, really me, Like

1191
01:02:39,560 --> 01:02:41,080
Speaker 1: how does this guy know me? He's like, I watched

1192
01:02:41,120 --> 01:02:44,120
Speaker 1: you on the Jocko podcast. I still have people write

1193
01:02:44,120 --> 01:02:45,920
Speaker 1: me to this day that are like I just watched

1194
01:02:45,920 --> 01:02:48,240
Speaker 1: episode one ninety two. Man, Like, it's great.

1195
01:02:48,280 --> 01:02:48,560
Speaker 2: Shit.

1196
01:02:48,680 --> 01:02:52,160
Speaker 1: I'm like that that is that is Isn't that just

1197
01:02:52,280 --> 01:02:55,200
Speaker 1: the craziest Do you have that experience as well? Man,

1198
01:02:55,360 --> 01:02:56,479
Speaker 1: worn nobody lives.

1199
01:02:57,120 --> 01:03:01,160
Speaker 2: There are no people where I live, So I don't dude,

1200
01:03:01,160 --> 01:03:04,520
Speaker 2: our valley is you know, I don't want to mess

1201
01:03:04,600 --> 01:03:08,240
Speaker 2: up persec here. But our valley's like thirty miles wide

1202
01:03:08,320 --> 01:03:11,520
Speaker 2: and one hundred and so miles long and there's two

1203
01:03:11,560 --> 01:03:12,800
Speaker 2: hundred people in the whole valley.

1204
01:03:12,840 --> 01:03:14,520
Speaker 1: So like that sounds amazing.

1205
01:03:14,840 --> 01:03:17,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, no one recognizes me who doesn't already know me,

1206
01:03:17,440 --> 01:03:20,320
Speaker 2: but I could see that happening though.

1207
01:03:20,480 --> 01:03:22,360
Speaker 1: So how did you? Okay, so how did you? So?

1208
01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:24,480
Speaker 1: Where are you now? You still doing? Are you still

1209
01:03:24,800 --> 01:03:27,200
Speaker 1: are you farming? Are you ranching? What are you doing? Yeah?

1210
01:03:27,240 --> 01:03:31,360
Speaker 2: I'm a horse trainer by trade, so I you know,

1211
01:03:31,480 --> 01:03:34,120
Speaker 2: right now in the winter, I just spread straw over

1212
01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:36,919
Speaker 2: the ice. I really can't do hardly shit right now.

1213
01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:40,000
Speaker 2: But when it thaws out, I'll be back riding colts

1214
01:03:40,040 --> 01:03:43,200
Speaker 2: and so we Yeah, we raised breed and train horses.

1215
01:03:44,160 --> 01:03:45,160
Speaker 1: You make a living doing that.

1216
01:03:45,880 --> 01:03:48,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's not a great living, but it's a

1217
01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:50,360
Speaker 2: good one, you know, Like it's not great money but

1218
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:51,920
Speaker 2: it's a good way to live. I eat three meals

1219
01:03:51,960 --> 01:03:54,160
Speaker 2: a day with my kids, and you know, deals are

1220
01:03:54,200 --> 01:03:57,240
Speaker 2: paid and we're happy, and my kids get to you know,

1221
01:03:57,280 --> 01:04:01,400
Speaker 2: my boys are all homeschooled, so they're you know, it's

1222
01:04:01,440 --> 01:04:04,040
Speaker 2: just great. Yeah, I get that. I think if there's

1223
01:04:04,080 --> 01:04:06,720
Speaker 2: anything I learned throughout this process, it's that you can't

1224
01:04:06,800 --> 01:04:09,360
Speaker 2: replace time with your family. And so for me, it

1225
01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:11,960
Speaker 2: was just it was an easy choice to go back

1226
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:13,960
Speaker 2: to living how I grew up because I get to

1227
01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:15,360
Speaker 2: spend that time. I don't know how many years I'm

1228
01:04:15,400 --> 01:04:17,760
Speaker 2: going to have a live, so I want to maximize

1229
01:04:17,800 --> 01:04:19,120
Speaker 2: the amount of time I have with my kids.

1230
01:04:19,160 --> 01:04:23,920
Speaker 1: Man, I totally agree with you. I completely agree with you.

1231
01:04:24,080 --> 01:04:26,720
Speaker 1: The time is the one constant that all of us

1232
01:04:26,760 --> 01:04:31,400
Speaker 1: are are working against. And I feel like people in

1233
01:04:31,440 --> 01:04:34,320
Speaker 1: the military, of the guys that I've met, and women

1234
01:04:34,400 --> 01:04:38,440
Speaker 1: for that matter, they appreciate time more because they know

1235
01:04:38,480 --> 01:04:39,560
Speaker 1: how fragile.

1236
01:04:39,160 --> 01:04:39,640
Speaker 2: Life can be.

1237
01:04:40,640 --> 01:04:42,800
Speaker 1: Do you do you have Do you feel like you

1238
01:04:44,560 --> 01:04:47,280
Speaker 1: I feel like I know the answer to this question already, Braxton,

1239
01:04:47,360 --> 01:04:50,400
Speaker 1: But do you feel like you appreciate the time that

1240
01:04:50,440 --> 01:04:52,680
Speaker 1: you have now because of all the shit that you

1241
01:04:52,720 --> 01:04:53,200
Speaker 1: went through?

1242
01:04:53,760 --> 01:04:57,439
Speaker 2: Oh? For sure, without a doubt. Man. I I don't

1243
01:04:57,480 --> 01:04:59,919
Speaker 2: want to pretend to be more pious than I really am.

1244
01:05:00,120 --> 01:05:01,960
Speaker 2: I do get on my knees every night and thank

1245
01:05:02,000 --> 01:05:04,800
Speaker 2: God every single night. I just to thank you because

1246
01:05:05,240 --> 01:05:08,000
Speaker 2: it's it's been a long road man, and I am

1247
01:05:08,240 --> 01:05:11,120
Speaker 2: I'm grateful for every single moment I get, for sure,

1248
01:05:11,400 --> 01:05:13,600
Speaker 2: And sometimes, like one of the things makes me the

1249
01:05:13,600 --> 01:05:16,360
Speaker 2: most mad at myself is when I am wasting that time,

1250
01:05:16,760 --> 01:05:20,560
Speaker 2: you know, like by you know, some vice or some

1251
01:05:20,960 --> 01:05:23,480
Speaker 2: you know, stupid behavior or whatever.

1252
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:28,080
Speaker 1: Bugs do you feel like do you feel like that often? Uh?

1253
01:05:28,120 --> 01:05:31,800
Speaker 2: Probably too often? I Yeah, I think my wife always

1254
01:05:31,800 --> 01:05:34,919
Speaker 2: says I'm too self critical, but yeah, I probably beat

1255
01:05:34,960 --> 01:05:37,360
Speaker 2: myself up more than I should. But yeah, I think

1256
01:05:37,400 --> 01:05:40,480
Speaker 2: it's just the nature of taking that stuff seriously, you know,

1257
01:05:40,600 --> 01:05:43,520
Speaker 2: like your life here on earth, if you're taking it seriously,

1258
01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:47,600
Speaker 2: not not yourself, but your life. Because I think anyone

1259
01:05:47,600 --> 01:05:51,000
Speaker 2: who takes themselves too seriously is just boring and annoying, right,

1260
01:05:51,040 --> 01:05:55,360
Speaker 2: But like, taking life itself seriously is really important to me.

1261
01:05:55,400 --> 01:05:57,919
Speaker 2: And I think if you if you live that way,

1262
01:05:57,960 --> 01:06:01,560
Speaker 2: it's impossible not to criticize, you know, self criticize.

1263
01:06:02,120 --> 01:06:05,040
Speaker 1: So how do you manage how do you make sure

1264
01:06:05,080 --> 01:06:07,440
Speaker 1: that you're not wasting time? Like, how do you differentiate

1265
01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:11,320
Speaker 1: between time well spent and time wasted? Any second I'm

1266
01:06:11,360 --> 01:06:12,880
Speaker 1: with my kids is not wasted.

1267
01:06:12,960 --> 01:06:15,040
Speaker 2: I like I use that as a you know, it's

1268
01:06:15,080 --> 01:06:17,640
Speaker 2: not just a kind of a talking point, as I

1269
01:06:17,680 --> 01:06:21,680
Speaker 2: really believe that. And then I just find projects. If

1270
01:06:22,200 --> 01:06:24,920
Speaker 2: you know, I'm working on another book and a lot

1271
01:06:25,000 --> 01:06:26,440
Speaker 2: in the winter. I have to spend a lot of

1272
01:06:26,480 --> 01:06:28,880
Speaker 2: time writing because I can't really be outside that often,

1273
01:06:28,960 --> 01:06:32,560
Speaker 2: So I try to apply as much of my energy

1274
01:06:32,600 --> 01:06:36,640
Speaker 2: to that as I can. I've got another project a

1275
01:06:36,720 --> 01:06:38,920
Speaker 2: friend of mine, wealthy friend of mine, kind of asked

1276
01:06:38,920 --> 01:06:41,400
Speaker 2: me to put together, So I'm working on that right now.

1277
01:06:41,400 --> 01:06:41,880
Speaker 1: I just try to.

1278
01:06:41,840 --> 01:06:43,600
Speaker 2: Find things to do that are going to be productive

1279
01:06:43,880 --> 01:06:46,280
Speaker 2: and beneficial to the world. And the goal is to

1280
01:06:46,320 --> 01:06:48,680
Speaker 2: expand our place here in the next handful of years

1281
01:06:48,720 --> 01:06:52,440
Speaker 2: if they don't raise interest rates by a thousand bps, which.

1282
01:06:52,240 --> 01:06:57,720
Speaker 1: Is so I try to stay.

1283
01:06:58,000 --> 01:07:00,600
Speaker 2: Goal oriented, you know, Like that's my folk because but

1284
01:07:00,640 --> 01:07:04,240
Speaker 2: I also think you've got to for me anyway, my

1285
01:07:04,480 --> 01:07:07,840
Speaker 2: brain is always turning, right, so I do think you've

1286
01:07:07,880 --> 01:07:10,880
Speaker 2: got to find productive ways to just chill out to

1287
01:07:11,040 --> 01:07:13,040
Speaker 2: every once in a while. And just shut your brain off.

1288
01:07:14,520 --> 01:07:17,760
Speaker 2: I don't watch TV, but I've been into fight fighting

1289
01:07:17,800 --> 01:07:19,680
Speaker 2: forever and so I watch a lot of fights, Like

1290
01:07:19,760 --> 01:07:23,080
Speaker 2: every Saturday, I watch fights with my kids, or every

1291
01:07:23,120 --> 01:07:24,640
Speaker 2: once in a while a friend will come over. It's

1292
01:07:24,640 --> 01:07:27,720
Speaker 2: pretty rare. Uh. And then Sundays I try to do

1293
01:07:27,800 --> 01:07:31,120
Speaker 2: nothing but play board games and hang out with my

1294
01:07:31,240 --> 01:07:34,520
Speaker 2: kids and try to get my wife to stop playing

1295
01:07:34,560 --> 01:07:36,760
Speaker 2: Dave and Ava on the TV for pre.

1296
01:07:40,360 --> 01:07:42,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I guess routine is the answer.

1297
01:07:42,160 --> 01:07:42,480
Speaker 2: Sorry.

1298
01:07:43,120 --> 01:07:46,560
Speaker 1: Do you ever feel like sometimes routine can be the enemy,

1299
01:07:46,800 --> 01:07:48,400
Speaker 1: like where you get yourself into a rut and you're

1300
01:07:48,400 --> 01:07:52,120
Speaker 1: in a bad cycle. Routine? Yeah?

1301
01:07:52,200 --> 01:07:58,080
Speaker 2: Yes, In fact, I have basically every morning, uh, since

1302
01:07:58,120 --> 01:08:01,439
Speaker 2: I could like walk. After I got wounded, I get

1303
01:08:01,440 --> 01:08:03,360
Speaker 2: in the tub and heat it as hot as I

1304
01:08:03,400 --> 01:08:06,240
Speaker 2: can get it and sit there for about twenty minutes

1305
01:08:06,360 --> 01:08:08,240
Speaker 2: or however long it takes me to read one chapter

1306
01:08:08,480 --> 01:08:10,800
Speaker 2: in a book. And then I get out and stretch,

1307
01:08:11,760 --> 01:08:14,040
Speaker 2: just trying to maintain mobilities with a lot of soft

1308
01:08:14,040 --> 01:08:17,719
Speaker 2: tissue injuries and all that. And recently I was telling

1309
01:08:17,720 --> 01:08:20,760
Speaker 2: my wife, I think I'm actually gonna switch up and

1310
01:08:21,280 --> 01:08:24,519
Speaker 2: lift before because I usually do that and then go

1311
01:08:24,600 --> 01:08:27,439
Speaker 2: lift and I think I'm gonna start lifting first as

1312
01:08:27,439 --> 01:08:30,160
Speaker 2: soon as I get up, and then try to stretch

1313
01:08:30,200 --> 01:08:32,479
Speaker 2: without even using like the tub thing, and see if

1314
01:08:32,479 --> 01:08:35,479
Speaker 2: I can, because I feel like I've started to lean

1315
01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:37,840
Speaker 2: on that too much, like I've done it for so long,

1316
01:08:37,960 --> 01:08:41,320
Speaker 2: you know, I think it's become like wasted time, Like

1317
01:08:41,360 --> 01:08:43,880
Speaker 2: I'll find my mind drifting off. You know, I have

1318
01:08:43,960 --> 01:08:45,880
Speaker 2: to read the same page fifteen times in a row

1319
01:08:45,960 --> 01:08:48,559
Speaker 2: because I'm you know, thinking about other stuff. So yeah,

1320
01:08:49,040 --> 01:08:51,439
Speaker 2: just one example of I think it's good to shake

1321
01:08:51,520 --> 01:08:52,679
Speaker 2: things up every once in a while.

1322
01:08:53,240 --> 01:08:56,000
Speaker 1: You do, like, do you do the the ice bath

1323
01:08:56,120 --> 01:08:59,719
Speaker 1: stuff that guys like Rogan it? Do you ever see that.

1324
01:09:00,240 --> 01:09:04,519
Speaker 2: There is two feet of snow in my backyard? I

1325
01:09:04,520 --> 01:09:05,719
Speaker 2: ain't getting in an ice bath.

1326
01:09:07,600 --> 01:09:09,200
Speaker 1: I mean I see people. I see people do it

1327
01:09:09,240 --> 01:09:11,200
Speaker 1: on social media all the time, and they're like and

1328
01:09:11,240 --> 01:09:13,479
Speaker 1: then you ever, there's that Chris Hemsworth thing on Netflix

1329
01:09:13,479 --> 01:09:15,559
Speaker 1: where he's like taking ice baths and swim in and

1330
01:09:15,600 --> 01:09:19,800
Speaker 1: how how extreme heat and extreme cold like extreme heat

1331
01:09:19,880 --> 01:09:22,439
Speaker 1: and asana extreme cold and an ice bath can extend

1332
01:09:22,479 --> 01:09:24,599
Speaker 1: onngevity in your life. And I thought that is maybe

1333
01:09:24,720 --> 01:09:26,240
Speaker 1: you were one of those dudes you're doing the bath

1334
01:09:26,280 --> 01:09:29,679
Speaker 1: in the morning, No man, I at night. Well, I've

1335
01:09:29,680 --> 01:09:30,280
Speaker 1: thought about it.

1336
01:09:30,320 --> 01:09:33,320
Speaker 2: When I when I hunt, I always uh like, because

1337
01:09:33,320 --> 01:09:35,719
Speaker 2: I can't stretch. Well, I can't stretch, but I can't

1338
01:09:35,760 --> 01:09:37,679
Speaker 2: heat up when I'm out hunting for or a guiding

1339
01:09:37,760 --> 01:09:40,560
Speaker 2: for a week or so, so I always get in

1340
01:09:40,600 --> 01:09:43,360
Speaker 2: the crick and those mountain cricks are barely above freezing

1341
01:09:43,400 --> 01:09:45,640
Speaker 2: all year round, you know, and that so I do

1342
01:09:45,720 --> 01:09:48,840
Speaker 2: it then, but no other time it does? You do

1343
01:09:48,880 --> 01:09:50,800
Speaker 2: feel great, I'll tell you, you really do.

1344
01:09:51,320 --> 01:09:53,120
Speaker 1: You know, it's crazy. I'm just sitting here thinking of

1345
01:09:53,200 --> 01:09:54,800
Speaker 1: that part of the part in your book where you're

1346
01:09:54,800 --> 01:09:57,080
Speaker 1: talking about never being able to hunt or fish or

1347
01:09:57,560 --> 01:09:59,880
Speaker 1: wade into a creek up until your weight You can

1348
01:10:00,240 --> 01:10:03,360
Speaker 1: that now? Yeah, right, absolutely, yeah.

1349
01:10:03,479 --> 01:10:05,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. It took a lot of work, but it's great.

1350
01:10:05,640 --> 01:10:09,240
Speaker 1: That's what life is crazy like, that, isn't it? Like

1351
01:10:09,560 --> 01:10:11,800
Speaker 1: where you're so convinced that things are going to be

1352
01:10:11,840 --> 01:10:15,920
Speaker 1: a certain way and then just time, Yeah, you know,

1353
01:10:16,040 --> 01:10:18,679
Speaker 1: you get to a point where you ever look back

1354
01:10:18,720 --> 01:10:22,200
Speaker 1: on that and think like like, holy shit, I was

1355
01:10:22,360 --> 01:10:24,519
Speaker 1: way off, I was way wrong.

1356
01:10:25,640 --> 01:10:29,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do I yeah, you know, I had a

1357
01:10:29,920 --> 01:10:32,360
Speaker 2: in that at that time. I had a surgeon come

1358
01:10:32,400 --> 01:10:33,840
Speaker 2: in and, you know, talk to me about it, and

1359
01:10:33,920 --> 01:10:36,120
Speaker 2: he's like, I think you can, you know, because everyone

1360
01:10:36,160 --> 01:10:38,800
Speaker 2: else was pretty much on the same page, thinking that

1361
01:10:38,880 --> 01:10:42,360
Speaker 2: I was probably going to recover to some degree, but

1362
01:10:42,479 --> 01:10:44,520
Speaker 2: certainly never be anywhere near one hundred.

1363
01:10:44,240 --> 01:10:46,679
Speaker 1: Percent again like walk with a cane or a walker forever.

1364
01:10:47,080 --> 01:10:50,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred percent, that's what I thought. And this

1365
01:10:50,840 --> 01:10:53,840
Speaker 2: young guy, uh, probably fresh out of Army med school

1366
01:10:53,960 --> 01:10:55,800
Speaker 2: or something. He don't I don't know how old he was,

1367
01:10:55,840 --> 01:10:58,640
Speaker 2: mid twenties, twenty, you know, some something like this. He

1368
01:10:58,680 --> 01:10:59,920
Speaker 2: came in and he's like, hey, man, I think you

1369
01:11:00,120 --> 01:11:02,200
Speaker 2: can do all of that, but you're gonna have to

1370
01:11:02,360 --> 01:11:05,479
Speaker 2: get after it, like right now. I mean, you can't

1371
01:11:05,560 --> 01:11:09,000
Speaker 2: let your muscles atrophy more or you will probably be screwed.

1372
01:11:09,479 --> 01:11:12,040
Speaker 2: And I think he was right about that. Got me

1373
01:11:12,120 --> 01:11:13,559
Speaker 2: up and got me going. And I had a great

1374
01:11:13,600 --> 01:11:16,120
Speaker 2: physical therapist named Solomon who played for the New York

1375
01:11:16,160 --> 01:11:18,639
Speaker 2: Giants that won the Super Bowl. And he was awesome too,

1376
01:11:18,840 --> 01:11:22,200
Speaker 2: like just giant black eyes, like god to be like

1377
01:11:22,240 --> 01:11:24,559
Speaker 2: three hundred and eighty pounds and like six ' five,

1378
01:11:24,720 --> 01:11:28,200
Speaker 2: you know. So I was surrounded by great people, and

1379
01:11:28,280 --> 01:11:31,120
Speaker 2: I when I look back, I try to remember try

1380
01:11:31,160 --> 01:11:33,080
Speaker 2: to remember that part, you know. And so I was, Yeah,

1381
01:11:33,080 --> 01:11:36,120
Speaker 2: I was wrong, but without the help of those people

1382
01:11:36,160 --> 01:11:37,920
Speaker 2: and then the effort, I might not. I don't think

1383
01:11:37,920 --> 01:11:40,040
Speaker 2: I would have been wrong, you know. I think if

1384
01:11:40,040 --> 01:11:42,280
Speaker 2: I'd have been lazy about it, I probably would be

1385
01:11:42,560 --> 01:11:43,960
Speaker 2: on at least a cane.

1386
01:11:43,960 --> 01:11:47,720
Speaker 1: Still, those people, those people changed your perspective though, right,

1387
01:11:47,840 --> 01:11:51,839
Speaker 1: I mean, like, I mean, I just believe this. Sometimes

1388
01:11:51,840 --> 01:11:54,360
Speaker 1: people come into your life at their right times to

1389
01:11:54,479 --> 01:11:57,559
Speaker 1: sometimes try to help shock you out of wherever it

1390
01:11:57,600 --> 01:12:02,320
Speaker 1: is that you are. And guys like Solomon and this

1391
01:12:02,320 --> 01:12:04,240
Speaker 1: this doctor told you you need to get after it.

1392
01:12:04,240 --> 01:12:07,960
Speaker 1: Get after it. Now, I feel like, look, I'm not

1393
01:12:08,000 --> 01:12:11,080
Speaker 1: trying to make meaning about your own life like you do.

1394
01:12:11,160 --> 01:12:13,720
Speaker 1: You know your life better than me. But as I

1395
01:12:13,800 --> 01:12:16,160
Speaker 1: reading your story, it's like to me, I'm thinking, like,

1396
01:12:17,800 --> 01:12:21,120
Speaker 1: that's that they came into your life at just the

1397
01:12:21,160 --> 01:12:21,599
Speaker 1: right time.

1398
01:12:21,640 --> 01:12:25,519
Speaker 2: Man. Yeah, I'm a believer in that stuff. It's I

1399
01:12:25,600 --> 01:12:30,280
Speaker 2: went through a period during recovery, especially where I became

1400
01:12:30,360 --> 01:12:34,760
Speaker 2: like basically a rabid, you know, annoying atheist type, you know.

1401
01:12:34,800 --> 01:12:37,160
Speaker 2: And I think it was really like rebelling against God

1402
01:12:37,280 --> 01:12:41,200
Speaker 2: is what I was really doing. But and I got

1403
01:12:41,280 --> 01:12:43,880
Speaker 2: a little bit older, and I had a I was

1404
01:12:43,960 --> 01:12:47,760
Speaker 2: running endurance races at the time, and I had a

1405
01:12:47,800 --> 01:12:50,760
Speaker 2: pain in my chest and I went to the to

1406
01:12:50,800 --> 01:12:54,640
Speaker 2: the hospital. My wife's parents are firefighters, e mts and

1407
01:12:54,680 --> 01:12:57,280
Speaker 2: all this, and so like called her up and she

1408
01:12:57,400 --> 01:12:59,680
Speaker 2: was she's not one to like tell you to go

1409
01:12:59,760 --> 01:13:01,960
Speaker 2: to the hospital. She's very old school in that way.

1410
01:13:02,000 --> 01:13:05,840
Speaker 2: So I trust her opinion. And I was describing it

1411
01:13:05,840 --> 01:13:07,120
Speaker 2: and she's like, you need to go to the er

1412
01:13:07,280 --> 01:13:10,519
Speaker 2: right now. So we went, and this is about five

1413
01:13:10,600 --> 01:13:14,479
Speaker 2: years ago, and the er doctor said, you had a

1414
01:13:14,479 --> 01:13:18,160
Speaker 2: heart attack. We've got a you know, there's some policy

1415
01:13:18,160 --> 01:13:19,680
Speaker 2: you have to stay for so many hours. I can

1416
01:13:19,800 --> 01:13:21,679
Speaker 2: if it's twelve or twenty or something. And they put

1417
01:13:21,680 --> 01:13:24,400
Speaker 2: you on an IV and all this. So I was like,

1418
01:13:24,840 --> 01:13:27,280
Speaker 2: I want to say, roughly thirty one at the time,

1419
01:13:27,400 --> 01:13:29,920
Speaker 2: or no, let's see my son, my oldest son was

1420
01:13:30,040 --> 01:13:34,160
Speaker 2: just born, so like thirty two or three or something. Okay,

1421
01:13:35,520 --> 01:13:36,920
Speaker 2: you know, I'm being told to have a heart I

1422
01:13:37,000 --> 01:13:38,600
Speaker 2: just had a heart attack, you know. So I go

1423
01:13:38,720 --> 01:13:41,519
Speaker 2: to my primary care doc and he's like, dude, you

1424
01:13:41,520 --> 01:13:44,280
Speaker 2: didn't have a heart attack. You're running endurance races. There's

1425
01:13:44,320 --> 01:13:46,840
Speaker 2: no way you had a heart attack. So I went

1426
01:13:46,920 --> 01:13:49,160
Speaker 2: up to a specialist at the University of Utah and

1427
01:13:49,200 --> 01:13:51,800
Speaker 2: they went through and what they found was, you know,

1428
01:13:51,840 --> 01:13:53,920
Speaker 2: after a series of tests and all this stuff, they

1429
01:13:53,920 --> 01:13:56,479
Speaker 2: found us, I have a scar on my heart from

1430
01:13:56,560 --> 01:13:59,080
Speaker 2: when I got wounded. It's like, so just my ekg

1431
01:13:59,280 --> 01:14:01,720
Speaker 2: reads as a you know, as if I've had a

1432
01:14:01,720 --> 01:14:04,840
Speaker 2: heart attack. And that was a real wake up moment

1433
01:14:04,960 --> 01:14:07,240
Speaker 2: for me, you know, like cause I felt like I

1434
01:14:07,280 --> 01:14:10,160
Speaker 2: had gotten everything was good. I'm married, you know, remarried

1435
01:14:10,240 --> 01:14:14,080
Speaker 2: rather and I just had a son, my first son.

1436
01:14:14,200 --> 01:14:17,000
Speaker 2: You know, like everything's good. And then you know, it'd

1437
01:14:17,040 --> 01:14:19,720
Speaker 2: been good for basically five to ten years or so

1438
01:14:19,760 --> 01:14:22,280
Speaker 2: by then, and you know, then it was like, look,

1439
01:14:22,320 --> 01:14:24,200
Speaker 2: I guess it's over. You know, that's the feeling in

1440
01:14:24,240 --> 01:14:25,720
Speaker 2: your mind right when you're told you had a heart

1441
01:14:25,720 --> 01:14:28,320
Speaker 2: attack at thirty two, Like, I guess my life's over then,

1442
01:14:29,760 --> 01:14:32,000
Speaker 2: And yeah, And so that was kind of that made

1443
01:14:32,080 --> 01:14:36,760
Speaker 2: me really look back look at God differently. Like for

1444
01:14:36,800 --> 01:14:40,439
Speaker 2: whatever reason in that moment, I wasn't mad or anything.

1445
01:14:40,560 --> 01:14:43,920
Speaker 2: I just knelt down and said thank you. I you know,

1446
01:14:44,040 --> 01:14:47,160
Speaker 2: I had ten or fifteen more years than I ever

1447
01:14:47,200 --> 01:14:50,040
Speaker 2: thought I was gonna get. And it's been a blessing

1448
01:14:50,120 --> 01:14:51,600
Speaker 2: and I get to lay here for the rest of

1449
01:14:51,600 --> 01:14:53,960
Speaker 2: the night and hold my little boy's hand, and I'm

1450
01:14:53,960 --> 01:14:58,599
Speaker 2: just gonna appreciate every day I get beyond that. And now,

1451
01:14:58,680 --> 01:15:00,240
Speaker 2: you know, again, I don't want to pretend to be

1452
01:15:00,240 --> 01:15:01,960
Speaker 2: more pious than I really am, but I you know,

1453
01:15:02,000 --> 01:15:06,400
Speaker 2: I try to really be grateful and appreciative for what

1454
01:15:06,479 --> 01:15:09,400
Speaker 2: God has done. And I think a moment like that

1455
01:15:10,040 --> 01:15:13,920
Speaker 2: is similar to like the heart attack scare, is similar

1456
01:15:13,960 --> 01:15:16,280
Speaker 2: to a person coming into your life at the right time,

1457
01:15:16,600 --> 01:15:19,840
Speaker 2: because I needed to be shaken out of this like

1458
01:15:19,960 --> 01:15:24,240
Speaker 2: bullshit atheistic agnostic delusion and kind of get my eyes

1459
01:15:24,280 --> 01:15:26,679
Speaker 2: back on the prize, you know. And I think that

1460
01:15:26,680 --> 01:15:28,840
Speaker 2: that did that for me, and I'm grateful for it.

1461
01:15:28,960 --> 01:15:29,160
Speaker 1: You know.

1462
01:15:29,240 --> 01:15:29,519
Speaker 2: Wow.

1463
01:15:30,080 --> 01:15:34,799
Speaker 1: Man, So the trajectory of your life, I mean, obviously,

1464
01:15:34,880 --> 01:15:37,360
Speaker 1: like we've we've been, we've walked very different paths. Like

1465
01:15:37,360 --> 01:15:39,479
Speaker 1: I'm a city guy, you know, even though I'm sure that,

1466
01:15:41,280 --> 01:15:43,600
Speaker 1: but you know, I feel like I barely made it

1467
01:15:43,600 --> 01:15:47,200
Speaker 1: out of Afghanistan alive, taken trapnel injuries, was wounded and

1468
01:15:47,280 --> 01:15:49,840
Speaker 1: fractured my skull and make it through all of that,

1469
01:15:52,120 --> 01:15:53,880
Speaker 1: you know, had some ups and downs when I came

1470
01:15:53,920 --> 01:15:59,120
Speaker 1: home remarried. Now I've gotten the best wife in the world.

1471
01:15:59,720 --> 01:16:02,599
Speaker 1: She's got amazing kids. I've got amazing kids, like an

1472
01:16:02,640 --> 01:16:06,240
Speaker 1: awesome blended family, Like they're just amazing. We just like

1473
01:16:06,960 --> 01:16:09,080
Speaker 1: move into this new house and it's like a farm.

1474
01:16:09,120 --> 01:16:10,519
Speaker 1: And like one of the things that I used to

1475
01:16:10,520 --> 01:16:12,719
Speaker 1: tell people on the campaign trail because I I really

1476
01:16:12,720 --> 01:16:15,800
Speaker 1: didn't like Republicans or Democrats. I'm a constitutional conservative. I

1477
01:16:15,840 --> 01:16:18,760
Speaker 1: love the country. That's it. Like I'm not, you know,

1478
01:16:19,439 --> 01:16:21,920
Speaker 1: the establishment wing of either party like kind of make

1479
01:16:21,960 --> 01:16:23,599
Speaker 1: me sick to my stomach a little bit. And NOWAYS

1480
01:16:23,640 --> 01:16:25,080
Speaker 1: used to say to people, like this ain't going to

1481
01:16:25,120 --> 01:16:27,240
Speaker 1: be a career for me. I'm not going down to Washington,

1482
01:16:27,320 --> 01:16:29,479
Speaker 1: d C. For an entire career. But I one the

1483
01:16:29,520 --> 01:16:31,240
Speaker 1: one promise that I will make you is that when

1484
01:16:31,240 --> 01:16:33,880
Speaker 1: I'm done with all of this, I'm gonna move to

1485
01:16:33,920 --> 01:16:36,679
Speaker 1: a farm in western Pennsylvania and never talk to anybody again.

1486
01:16:37,320 --> 01:16:39,760
Speaker 1: And that's that's so we ended up getting this like

1487
01:16:39,760 --> 01:16:42,880
Speaker 1: little small farm and like and like I finally, oh man,

1488
01:16:42,920 --> 01:16:45,439
Speaker 1: things are great on the up and up, Like you know,

1489
01:16:45,520 --> 01:16:49,639
Speaker 1: remarried now and this place is amazing. Like we've got

1490
01:16:49,640 --> 01:16:51,760
Speaker 1: like not a lot of lands like thirteen acres, but

1491
01:16:51,800 --> 01:16:54,400
Speaker 1: we we've got corn that we lease out to a

1492
01:16:54,400 --> 01:16:56,479
Speaker 1: farmer on one side of it, and we've got sowbeans

1493
01:16:56,479 --> 01:16:58,040
Speaker 1: on the other side, so that's all kind of cool.

1494
01:16:58,439 --> 01:17:00,920
Speaker 1: And we live like up a against like this little

1495
01:17:00,920 --> 01:17:03,639
Speaker 1: horse farm the stables right behind us, so the kids

1496
01:17:03,640 --> 01:17:05,559
Speaker 1: get to see all that, which is something that I

1497
01:17:05,600 --> 01:17:07,840
Speaker 1: want for them. I love it. And I'm like out

1498
01:17:07,880 --> 01:17:10,040
Speaker 1: there cutting the grass. I mean cutting grass my whole life,

1499
01:17:10,120 --> 01:17:12,760
Speaker 1: and like the self propelled mower and it like hits

1500
01:17:12,800 --> 01:17:14,920
Speaker 1: this thing and kicks up and pulls my left foot

1501
01:17:14,960 --> 01:17:16,960
Speaker 1: under it, and my left foot got stuck. I know.

1502
01:17:17,520 --> 01:17:20,880
Speaker 1: It's like I'm good now. I'm good now. But like

1503
01:17:20,960 --> 01:17:23,559
Speaker 1: I just moved in and like thinking, oh my god,

1504
01:17:23,600 --> 01:17:26,240
Speaker 1: I finally put all this bullshit behind me, and I'm

1505
01:17:26,240 --> 01:17:28,800
Speaker 1: like moving on and like bam, like that happens, and

1506
01:17:28,840 --> 01:17:31,479
Speaker 1: I'm taking on a commission for six months like just

1507
01:17:31,760 --> 01:17:35,439
Speaker 1: laid up, you know, and you know, like it was

1508
01:17:35,479 --> 01:17:38,840
Speaker 1: a pretty terrible, gruesome injury. I'm again, I'm okay now.

1509
01:17:39,560 --> 01:17:42,559
Speaker 1: But like when you're talking to me about like what

1510
01:17:42,640 --> 01:17:45,320
Speaker 1: happened with your heart, like that that took me there,

1511
01:17:45,360 --> 01:17:49,559
Speaker 1: It's like you things happen in life sometimes just when

1512
01:17:49,600 --> 01:17:52,160
Speaker 1: you least expect it, man, you know, just when you

1513
01:17:52,200 --> 01:17:55,719
Speaker 1: think like you've made it through everything, like life throws

1514
01:17:55,760 --> 01:17:59,160
Speaker 1: you a curveball. And I do feel like that experience,

1515
01:18:00,200 --> 01:18:03,719
Speaker 1: you know, I so many things happened, So many things

1516
01:18:03,760 --> 01:18:07,920
Speaker 1: happened to me during that experience that that like I

1517
01:18:08,000 --> 01:18:10,720
Speaker 1: don't know, probably shouldn't have, Like I should have lost

1518
01:18:10,760 --> 01:18:13,160
Speaker 1: consciousness at the bottom of the hill, like Melanie and

1519
01:18:13,160 --> 01:18:15,280
Speaker 1: the girls were inside, I don't know they they heard

1520
01:18:15,320 --> 01:18:17,400
Speaker 1: me yelling for help. They ended up coming out. Like

1521
01:18:17,560 --> 01:18:20,920
Speaker 1: the EMTs arrived like four minutes after we called him.

1522
01:18:20,920 --> 01:18:23,400
Speaker 1: I mean, so many things, So I just say that

1523
01:18:23,479 --> 01:18:26,799
Speaker 1: to say, like it's sort of all of that experience

1524
01:18:26,880 --> 01:18:28,720
Speaker 1: brought me closer to God in ways that I never

1525
01:18:28,720 --> 01:18:30,240
Speaker 1: thought possible, you know.

1526
01:18:30,960 --> 01:18:34,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and you had half of humanity try to

1527
01:18:34,280 --> 01:18:37,080
Speaker 2: screw your life up for a couple of weeks, like.

1528
01:18:37,439 --> 01:18:42,200
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, you a lot, man, a lot. Well,

1529
01:18:42,439 --> 01:18:46,320
Speaker 1: you know, I I it. I'm not going to lie

1530
01:18:46,320 --> 01:18:49,000
Speaker 1: to you. It does so so much of the last

1531
01:18:49,720 --> 01:18:51,479
Speaker 1: there have been ups and downs, you know, just like

1532
01:18:51,680 --> 01:18:54,800
Speaker 1: just like your story, you know, and and the downs

1533
01:18:54,960 --> 01:18:57,599
Speaker 1: some of the downs have been really really really low

1534
01:18:59,800 --> 01:19:02,920
Speaker 1: you know, but just like I think, like in life,

1535
01:19:03,000 --> 01:19:05,640
Speaker 1: like there are lessons to be learned in the darkness sometimes,

1536
01:19:05,760 --> 01:19:09,840
Speaker 1: you know, and there were silver linings through all of

1537
01:19:09,880 --> 01:19:11,960
Speaker 1: it that taught me. I think some pretty important life

1538
01:19:12,040 --> 01:19:13,920
Speaker 1: lessons that I've been able to implement in my life

1539
01:19:14,360 --> 01:19:17,120
Speaker 1: since that time, and I think make not just my

1540
01:19:17,200 --> 01:19:19,400
Speaker 1: life but the life of my kids and my family better.

1541
01:19:19,479 --> 01:19:22,479
Speaker 1: We're closer now and I think that we've ever been. So,

1542
01:19:23,520 --> 01:19:25,880
Speaker 1: you know, I just hope to see light at the

1543
01:19:25,920 --> 01:19:27,400
Speaker 1: end of the tunnel when you just march to it,

1544
01:19:27,479 --> 01:19:27,640
Speaker 1: you know.

1545
01:19:28,240 --> 01:19:30,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, that's all you can do is pick a

1546
01:19:30,560 --> 01:19:34,480
Speaker 2: goal and get there. I think otherwise you're just rudderless,

1547
01:19:34,840 --> 01:19:36,280
Speaker 2: you know, so.

1548
01:19:36,320 --> 01:19:40,080
Speaker 1: Like exactly exactly, and I mean you're talking about goals.

1549
01:19:40,120 --> 01:19:42,320
Speaker 1: You're writing another book, Like, tell me about it. What's

1550
01:19:42,320 --> 01:19:46,160
Speaker 1: it about this book? Is?

1551
01:19:47,880 --> 01:19:52,280
Speaker 2: I had this realization we as Americans, Like if you

1552
01:19:52,320 --> 01:19:55,040
Speaker 2: go ask an American what it means to, you know,

1553
01:19:55,080 --> 01:19:57,479
Speaker 2: be one of us, to like be an American, all

1554
01:19:57,560 --> 01:20:00,920
Speaker 2: of the descriptors they will give you are like, you know,

1555
01:20:01,280 --> 01:20:06,479
Speaker 2: sort of a rugged individualism, perseverance, you know, courage, you know,

1556
01:20:06,520 --> 01:20:08,000
Speaker 2: lane of the free, home in the brave, this kind of

1557
01:20:08,000 --> 01:20:13,200
Speaker 2: stuff and the vast majority of that happened on the

1558
01:20:13,720 --> 01:20:18,479
Speaker 2: frontiers of this country, like from the Ohio River Valley

1559
01:20:18,520 --> 01:20:22,240
Speaker 2: to California. That's where we really carved our identity. And

1560
01:20:22,280 --> 01:20:25,720
Speaker 2: I think people, I think one of the problems this

1561
01:20:25,760 --> 01:20:27,280
Speaker 2: is not a political book, but I think one of

1562
01:20:27,360 --> 01:20:32,240
Speaker 2: the problems with politics is we have forgotten where where

1563
01:20:32,280 --> 01:20:35,080
Speaker 2: we are, how and where we became what we are.

1564
01:20:35,520 --> 01:20:37,160
Speaker 2: And it's not like when I say frontier, I'm not

1565
01:20:37,200 --> 01:20:39,240
Speaker 2: saying just the Rocky Mountain West. It's like, sure, that's

1566
01:20:39,240 --> 01:20:41,160
Speaker 2: a part of it, but you know, all the way

1567
01:20:41,160 --> 01:20:43,560
Speaker 2: back to Manassa color in the Ohio River Valley in

1568
01:20:43,600 --> 01:20:47,280
Speaker 2: the late seventeen eighties. You know, it was this manifest

1569
01:20:47,320 --> 01:20:53,080
Speaker 2: destiny type spirit that made us who we were. And

1570
01:20:53,200 --> 01:20:56,760
Speaker 2: going into World War One, no one thought of us

1571
01:20:56,800 --> 01:21:00,160
Speaker 2: as like any kind of global superpower or anything. We

1572
01:21:00,280 --> 01:21:03,320
Speaker 2: sure ship thought of ourselves that way, you know. And

1573
01:21:03,360 --> 01:21:06,439
Speaker 2: it's because we had like roffed you know, roffed uh

1574
01:21:07,240 --> 01:21:10,360
Speaker 2: the planes, you know, roughed up the planes, tribes and

1575
01:21:10,479 --> 01:21:12,240
Speaker 2: you know, dealt with all of that. And it built

1576
01:21:12,240 --> 01:21:16,000
Speaker 2: a you know, bustling nation out of what you know,

1577
01:21:16,120 --> 01:21:19,960
Speaker 2: a wilderness essentially. And that's so the book is focused

1578
01:21:20,000 --> 01:21:24,200
Speaker 2: on like trying to argue that case that, you know,

1579
01:21:24,240 --> 01:21:26,080
Speaker 2: so it's a little bit of a it's a it's

1580
01:21:26,120 --> 01:21:28,240
Speaker 2: a bit of like history that people need to understand,

1581
01:21:28,320 --> 01:21:30,599
Speaker 2: like very basic. It's not a not a history book,

1582
01:21:30,680 --> 01:21:34,760
Speaker 2: but very basic history and concepts so that we can, uh,

1583
01:21:34,960 --> 01:21:39,480
Speaker 2: so that it can argue that like Americanism is frontier frontiersmanship,

1584
01:21:39,600 --> 01:21:43,320
Speaker 2: like that's what it is. And if you without a frontier,

1585
01:21:43,520 --> 01:21:46,880
Speaker 2: or if you remove frontiers, then we are a a

1586
01:21:46,960 --> 01:21:51,960
Speaker 2: sort of a uh oh, I don't I'm trying to

1587
01:21:51,960 --> 01:21:55,920
Speaker 2: think of, like, but essentially with without a frontier to pursue,

1588
01:21:56,040 --> 01:22:00,519
Speaker 2: we we become lost, you know, like we're a culture

1589
01:22:00,560 --> 01:22:04,920
Speaker 2: without an identity. And so now we either have to

1590
01:22:05,000 --> 01:22:07,840
Speaker 2: create some new American identity, which I think is tough,

1591
01:22:08,560 --> 01:22:13,080
Speaker 2: or you know, start pursuing frontiers elsewhere and like get

1592
01:22:13,080 --> 01:22:14,920
Speaker 2: our eyes back on the prize and become you know,

1593
01:22:15,000 --> 01:22:18,479
Speaker 2: more focused. And I think we're just like the g

1594
01:22:18,640 --> 01:22:20,840
Speaker 2: watting is again another example of this. I mean, the

1595
01:22:20,920 --> 01:22:24,760
Speaker 2: g WAT was primarily fought in Iraq and Afghanistan, but

1596
01:22:24,800 --> 01:22:26,679
Speaker 2: we were also doing shit in like seven or eight

1597
01:22:26,680 --> 01:22:29,040
Speaker 2: other countries. You know. It's just like this scatter gun

1598
01:22:29,840 --> 01:22:34,400
Speaker 2: from you know, Africa to the East. I mean that

1599
01:22:34,560 --> 01:22:38,519
Speaker 2: is a true like a country that has forgotten how

1600
01:22:38,560 --> 01:22:42,280
Speaker 2: to set a goal, especially one with this much power,

1601
01:22:42,640 --> 01:22:45,799
Speaker 2: is a danger to themselves and the world. I mean,

1602
01:22:45,800 --> 01:22:48,680
Speaker 2: it's we just can't live like this any longer. And

1603
01:22:48,720 --> 01:22:50,439
Speaker 2: that's essentially what I'm trying to argue.

1604
01:22:50,960 --> 01:22:57,599
Speaker 1: That is a fascinating thesis. And boy, Braxton, we need

1605
01:22:58,120 --> 01:23:02,240
Speaker 1: that sort of vision and guidance and in leadership now

1606
01:23:02,240 --> 01:23:06,479
Speaker 1: more than ever, man, And I really am psyched about it.

1607
01:23:06,479 --> 01:23:08,640
Speaker 1: I mean, your first book, The Glass Factory. Again, like,

1608
01:23:08,760 --> 01:23:10,960
Speaker 1: if you're watching this, you've got to go get it.

1609
01:23:10,960 --> 01:23:14,240
Speaker 1: It's it's so good. The first book was amazing, the

1610
01:23:14,280 --> 01:23:18,680
Speaker 1: writing style was great. I really psyched about the next one.

1611
01:23:18,720 --> 01:23:20,720
Speaker 1: And I mean I typically keep trying to keep these

1612
01:23:20,800 --> 01:23:24,759
Speaker 1: interviews forty five minutes. We've been way over, come, ways over,

1613
01:23:25,720 --> 01:23:27,280
Speaker 1: and I don't want to keep you any longer, but

1614
01:23:27,320 --> 01:23:29,320
Speaker 1: I'd love to have you back on man and talk

1615
01:23:29,360 --> 01:23:33,679
Speaker 1: more about this stuff. I'm so grateful for the time

1616
01:23:33,720 --> 01:23:35,800
Speaker 1: that you gave me today, Braxton. Thank you for coming on.

1617
01:23:36,240 --> 01:23:37,880
Speaker 2: I appreciate you having man. It was great to talk

1618
01:23:37,920 --> 01:23:38,120
Speaker 2: to you.

1619
01:23:38,160 --> 01:23:40,320
Speaker 1: Thank you. All right, all right, well we'll talk to

1620
01:23:40,360 --> 01:23:44,880
Speaker 1: you soon. All right, everybody rounds complete. I hope that

1621
01:23:44,920 --> 01:23:48,479
Speaker 1: you liked my conversation with Braxton McCoy. He really is

1622
01:23:48,640 --> 01:23:52,519
Speaker 1: a selfless servant of America. Is a remarkable human being,

1623
01:23:53,080 --> 01:23:55,720
Speaker 1: really well spoken too, has a voice for podcasting and

1624
01:23:55,760 --> 01:23:57,640
Speaker 1: a face for podcasting as well. If he wants to

1625
01:23:57,640 --> 01:24:01,000
Speaker 1: do a video, should he choose to do that. And

1626
01:24:01,040 --> 01:24:03,800
Speaker 1: as usual, thank you so much for listening to the

1627
01:24:03,880 --> 01:24:09,280
Speaker 1: show today. If you liked what you heard, subscribe wherever

1628
01:24:09,320 --> 01:24:13,800
Speaker 1: you listen to podcasts. We need your support when we grow.

1629
01:24:14,040 --> 01:24:17,080
Speaker 1: It helps us reinvest in the show and it allows

1630
01:24:17,120 --> 01:24:19,360
Speaker 1: us to do more shows and bring you more awesome,

1631
01:24:19,439 --> 01:24:24,439
Speaker 1: amazing content and guests like Braxton. Subscribe to my YouTube channel.

1632
01:24:24,520 --> 01:24:29,080
Speaker 1: You can also subscribe to my Rumble channel for video

1633
01:24:29,360 --> 01:24:33,679
Speaker 1: exclusive content. I've also got a website, official Seanparnell dot

1634
01:24:33,720 --> 01:24:36,880
Speaker 1: com that you can go to with a clothing line

1635
01:24:36,960 --> 01:24:42,040
Speaker 1: called Battleground Apparel. Go there get as many T shirts

1636
01:24:42,040 --> 01:24:44,759
Speaker 1: as you want. They're awesome. I like them, my family

1637
01:24:44,760 --> 01:24:47,439
Speaker 1: and I wear them all the time. So thank you

1638
01:24:47,560 --> 01:24:52,559
Speaker 1: so much for being with us today. God bless you all,

1639
01:24:53,240 --> 01:24:57,240
Speaker 1: and God bless this amazing country that we live in.

1640
01:24:57,840 --> 01:25:19,400
Speaker 1: Take care and as