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Speaker 1: Also media.

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Speaker 2: Oh boy, it's Behind the Bastard's the podcast that you

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Speaker 2: listen to if you're listening to it. If you don't

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Speaker 2: listen to it, then you don't know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 2: So you know what, I hate you, but I don't

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Speaker 2: hate my guest for this episode, Courtney Kosak.

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Speaker 3: Courtney, Hello, so good to see you again.

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Speaker 2: Good to see you again. Have you been since last

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Speaker 2: we uh last we talked about somebody who was really bad?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well, lots of bad people that I hear about

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Speaker 4: every day in the news.

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Speaker 3: But I have been like.

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Speaker 4: Deep into working on my book, which is just full

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Speaker 4: of people from my past.

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Speaker 3: Oh That's what I've.

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Speaker 2: Been working hopefully not the worst people in all of history.

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Speaker 2: I have you only Yeah, I mean you did have

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Speaker 2: that longtime friendship with momark Adaffi, but you know, tragically

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Speaker 2: that ended badly. We all did. Look, he was cool

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Speaker 2: at one point in time, he was not. So Courtney,

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Speaker 2: you got something to plug you want to you want

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Speaker 2: to drop that before we get into our our bastard

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Speaker 2: for this episode, because we got a weird one for

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Speaker 2: you this week.

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I.

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Speaker 4: Just wanna My My book is called Girl Gone Wild.

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Speaker 4: It is my coming of age memoir. It's my debut.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I'm so tempted to just ask you a million questions

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Speaker 4: about your book writing process, but we'll save that for

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Speaker 4: another podcast.

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Speaker 2: It's bad.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm just so excited that it's going to be

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Speaker 4: out in March.

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Speaker 3: It's available for pre order and it's all thrilling.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Courtney. Uh So, speaking of my process, my process

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Speaker 2: for writing a book is mostly to get delayed writing

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Speaker 2: that book so I can continue writing podcasts. And this week,

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Speaker 2: the podcast that I have written in lieu of finishing

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Speaker 2: my book, uh is about is a weird one, right,

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Speaker 2: This is normally a podcast but the worst people in

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Speaker 2: all of history, And we have a bastard for this week,

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Speaker 2: and our bastard for this week is a really interesting guy.

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Speaker 2: His name is Steve Hatville, and he was recently made

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Speaker 2: Special Advisor to the Trump Administration for Pandemic Preparedness. He

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Speaker 2: has some relevant background here. He spent most of his

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Speaker 2: career as a pathologist and a biological weapons expert, training

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Speaker 2: US soldiers and how to deal with biological weapons, specifically

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Speaker 2: weaponized viruses, And like a lot of people in Trump world,

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Speaker 2: he's recently gotten into what we might call the alt

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Speaker 2: science side of medicine. In twenty twenty, he advised the

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Speaker 2: first Trump administration on COVID nineteen and became a major

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Speaker 2: advocate of hydroxychloroquin as a treatment. Yeah, he's one of

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Speaker 2: those guys. And in an article a couple of years ago,

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Speaker 2: The Washington Post cited his statements as evidence supporting the

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Speaker 2: idea that the Trump administration neglected pandemic response after losing

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Speaker 2: the twenty twenty election. Quote Stephen Hatfield, a virologist who

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Speaker 2: advised White House Trade advisor Peter Navarro, said he was

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Speaker 2: intimately involved in the pandemic response, repeatedly described in the

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Speaker 2: emails how stuff took precedence over a coronavirus even as

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Speaker 2: the outbreak surged more than two hundred and fifty thousand

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Speaker 2: new coronavirus cases per day in January. Now, with the

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Speaker 2: election so close, COVID is taking a back seat, yet

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Speaker 2: the disease is rearing its ugly head again, Hatfill wrote

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Speaker 2: to an outside colleague in October of twenty twenty, following

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Speaker 2: the election, which was disputed by Trump. Hatfel wrote another

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Speaker 2: email that he personally shifted over to the election fraud

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Speaker 2: investigation in November, which says a lot about like the

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Speaker 2: how the people close to Trump viewed themselves was like, well,

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Speaker 2: I'm a virologist and a pathologist, but I'll get involved

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Speaker 2: in the election frauds. I guess that makes sense for

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Speaker 2: me to be working on during a pandemic more than

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Speaker 2: the pandemic, right.

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Speaker 3: The priority. I can't believe that's the priority.

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Speaker 2: No, everybody's focusing on the election. Now. I don't care

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Speaker 2: that you're the virus guy and there's a virus. Get

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Speaker 2: on the elections.

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Speaker 3: Hit all hands on tech, yeah.

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Speaker 2: And true true to form. During that brief window, Hatfield

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Speaker 2: traveled to Arizona to help organize a plan B for

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Speaker 2: Trump's legal fight to retain the presidency. When a colleague

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Speaker 2: email him on January fifth, task why he wasn't fixing

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Speaker 2: the virus, he replied that the election thing had gotten

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Speaker 2: out of control, and I go where my team goes,

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Speaker 2: which at that point was to contest results in Nevada. Now,

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Speaker 2: when it comes to this stuff, I have no trouble

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Speaker 2: condemning hat Phil. I don't like him. I think he's

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Speaker 2: a bad person. I think he's done bad things for

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Speaker 2: the world. Here's where it gets weird. He's kind of

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Speaker 2: the protagonist of our story this week, right, because this

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Speaker 2: is we're going to be telling a story, and we're

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Speaker 2: gonna be telling two stories, really, and in both of

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Speaker 2: these stories, the bad guy is the FBI, and in

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Speaker 2: more broadly, our entire justice system, right, and the media

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Speaker 2: and how the media interacts with the justice system around

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Speaker 2: high profile cases, you know, when people are desperately trying

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Speaker 2: to figure out who did it and at a point

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Speaker 2: at which you know, the cops decide literally we need

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Speaker 2: to throw some name out there, and the media decides content, content, content, right,

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Speaker 2: Like that's the evil here. We're talking about two different

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Speaker 2: tear attacks where innocent people were accused by both law

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Speaker 2: enforcement and journalists of having done terrible things. And hat

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Speaker 2: Phil is one of those innocent people. So he's like

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Speaker 2: a bad person, but he's also really unique among members

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Speaker 2: of the Trump administration and that all of them hate

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Speaker 2: the media. Hatfil is a really good reason to hate

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Speaker 2: the mainstream media. They did him so fucking dirty, and

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Speaker 2: it's a very weird story for that reason.

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Speaker 3: In situation, they did him so dirty that.

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Speaker 2: We're about absolutely absolutely completely destroyed his life for years

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Speaker 2: for no reason, like just based purely on bad police

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Speaker 2: work and lazy reporting, like that's what happened here, and

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Speaker 2: so kind of what we're talking about. In addition to

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Speaker 2: the justice system sure doesn't work very well, does it.

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Speaker 2: Cops aren't very good at their jobs, are they. We're

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Speaker 2: also telling a story of this is how law enforcement

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Speaker 2: and the media kind of feeding off of each other

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Speaker 2: created a month because the present day Steven hat Phil

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Speaker 2: who was a member of the Trump administration, is created

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Speaker 2: to a significant extent by how much this destroys his

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Speaker 2: life and pisses him off, Like this really radicalizes him

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Speaker 2: in a major way. And so it's interesting to understand

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Speaker 2: for that perspective too, because we are talking about a

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Speaker 2: bad guy, but he's not the bad guy in the

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Speaker 2: story we're telling, which I haven't done before. So I'm

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Speaker 2: excited for this kind of episode.

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Speaker 3: I am so conflicted. I feel like you're doing me

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Speaker 3: dirty a little bit. You're like, no, the Trump guy

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Speaker 3: is the good guy.

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Speaker 2: Well he's not the good guy. Let's be really clear.

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Speaker 2: Protagonist rightist is not mean good guy. Okay, yeah, but

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Speaker 2: he's not. He's not the wronged person in his story.

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Speaker 2: But we are telling two stories, and basically this week

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Speaker 2: we're going to be talking about first the Olympic Park

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Speaker 2: bombing which occurred at the nineteen ninety six Olympics in Atlanta, Georgia. Uh,

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Speaker 2: and we're talking about the man who was wrong blamed

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Speaker 2: for that attack and how that happened. And then and

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Speaker 2: this is where hatfil comes in, we're going to be

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Speaker 2: talking about the two thousand and one anthrax attacks in

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Speaker 2: the United States after nine to eleven, because hat Phil

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Speaker 2: is the guy who gets blamed for that, right, And

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Speaker 2: so that's what we're talking about this week, is how

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Speaker 2: both of you because these are with similar cases and

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Speaker 2: they are emblematic of similar problems that still exist within

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Speaker 2: law enforcement in the media to this day. Right, So

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Speaker 2: that's what we're talking about.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I'm on the edge of my seat. Let's do it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, this'll be fun. So for our first again,

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Speaker 2: I just started. If I talking about hat Phil, we're

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Speaker 2: not going to talk about him anymore in this episode

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Speaker 2: because the guy who gets wrongfully accused of the Olympic

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Speaker 2: Park bombings is not Steve hat Phil. He is a

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Speaker 2: guy who was a cop for a brief span of time,

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Speaker 2: although not he was not really a cop either, Like

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Speaker 2: he's we'll talk. He's a wanna bee cop who gets

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Speaker 2: to be it briefly and then is a secure, ready

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Speaker 2: guard at the time. All this happens when he actually

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Speaker 2: does some an act of legitimate heroism. And his name

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Speaker 2: was Richard Jewel. Richard Allensworth Jewel was born Richard White

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Speaker 2: on December seventeenth, nineteen sixty two, in Danville, Virginia. His

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Speaker 2: father worked at Chevy and his mom helped. She was

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Speaker 2: like an insurance claim adjuster type pursuit. She had some

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Speaker 2: job in that hole. But I don't think she was

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Speaker 2: an adjuster, but she was involved in the whole insurance

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Speaker 2: claim thing. Something to do with insurance. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: You don't come to this to hear about what people's

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Speaker 2: moms did for the insurance industry. They divorced when he

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Speaker 2: was four, and she remarried a guy named John Jewell

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Speaker 2: who adopted Richard, and that's why he's known as Richard Jewel.

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Speaker 2: Most of his life is not very interesting. The most

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Speaker 2: important thing to know about Richard Jewel, Sophie will pull

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Speaker 2: up a picture of him. This guy is like his

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Speaker 2: phenotype is cop right, like he was born with cop

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Speaker 2: in his blood. Like you just take one look at

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Speaker 2: this man. He grows the kind of mustache that if

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Speaker 2: you were, like, if you're biologically a cop, your body

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Speaker 2: just produces that mustache, right, Like, I don't know that

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Speaker 2: he ever had a choice in not wanting to be

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Speaker 2: a cop, Like in terms of his character and personality,

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Speaker 2: that's what he always wanted to be for the time

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Speaker 2: he's a child. Richard idolizes the police. This is the

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Speaker 2: only job he wants to do. Right, You're looking at

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Speaker 2: the picture like that, that is a cop mustache, right,

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Speaker 2: There's just simply no other way to describe it.

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Speaker 3: He's like a Chicago cop.

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Speaker 2: He's like a yes, yes, strong Chicago cop vibes. That's

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Speaker 2: what he was born to do, and he's never gonna

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Speaker 2: quite get there, tragically for Richard, so he idolizes the police.

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Speaker 2: This is the only job he ever wants. He's one

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Speaker 2: of these people who grows up believing the police are

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Speaker 2: heroes surrounded on all sides by dangerous criminals, holding up

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Speaker 2: society and protecting the innocence through sheer force of will

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Speaker 2: and commitment to the law. So you know, he's pretty propagandaist, right,

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Speaker 2: Like a lot of us were his kids. And when

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Speaker 2: he grows up. You know, he doesn't immediately get into

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Speaker 2: law enforcement. His first job, I think is working at

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Speaker 2: and eventually managing a Tcby yogurt shop. But he shows

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Speaker 2: some promise that like, oh, maybe this guy, you know,

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Speaker 2: maybe this law enforcements what he's actually going to do,

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Speaker 2: because while a manager of the store, he stops a

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Speaker 2: robbery in progress, which you're not supposed to do when

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Speaker 2: managing a retail store or a food store. You're not

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Speaker 2: supposed to do that in any store, stop a robbery.

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Speaker 2: But he does. I don't have any more details than that,

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Speaker 2: but it gets him written up in local papers and

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Speaker 2: it fuels his desire to get behind a badge. He's like,

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Speaker 2: oh man, this is what I made for, Like, look

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Speaker 2: at what I was able to do behind the desk

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Speaker 2: at a Tcby treaty shop. Give me a gun and

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Speaker 2: a badge. I'll really fox some shit up.

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Speaker 3: If I can do this with ice cream. You gotta

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Speaker 3: wait and see what I got.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. It's amazing. They didn't just hand him a

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Speaker 2: gun and a badge right then and there.

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Speaker 1: And Dan Clint East would make a movie about this guy.

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Speaker 2: Yes he did, Yes he did. Okay, and we'll talk

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Speaker 2: about that because it's gross.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: When he's twenty two, Jewel got hired to Claire for

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Speaker 2: the Small Business Association, where he met and befriended a

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Speaker 2: lawyer named Watson Bryant. He's good at the job, and

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Speaker 2: he earns a reputation for being always on the ball.

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Speaker 2: He's very on time, he's very outgoing, always puts in

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Speaker 2: one hundred and ten percent. But he got placed there

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Speaker 2: through a temp agency, and when the contract ran up,

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Speaker 2: he took a job that brought him closer to his

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Speaker 2: dream career, working as a detective for the Marriott hotel chain.

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Speaker 2: I did not realize. I thought that was a joke

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Speaker 2: in American Dad. I didn't know hotels had detectives, but

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Speaker 2: apparently they do.

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Speaker 3: That's the perfect job really for him. He should have

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Speaker 3: kind of stopped there.

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Speaker 2: I think, I don't want to be mean to the

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Speaker 2: hotel detectives at the world, But imagine going on on

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Speaker 2: a date and like, so what are you hear? Like, well,

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Speaker 2: I'm a hotel detective. A hotel detective, huh are you

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Speaker 2: like trying to figure out like what the stain was

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Speaker 2: on the mattress? Was like it's come with the yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: just looking at up, just walking into everyone with a

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Speaker 2: black light going yep, yeah, huh, yep. More people coming

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Speaker 2: every day. I think somebody did cocaine off that table.

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Speaker 2: Maybe I don't know, it could be more. Come In

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Speaker 2: nineteen ninety, he gets hired as a jailer for the

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Speaker 2: Habersham County Sheriff's Office. Right now, this is kind of

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Speaker 2: a do nothing job. You're sitting in a small, smoke

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Speaker 2: filled room occasionally dealing with the restees. It's not what

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Speaker 2: he wants to be doing. He doesn't like it, but

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Speaker 2: it's his foot in the door. And I guess in

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Speaker 2: the nineties it was maybe there were enough the cops

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Speaker 2: weren't like today, he would just find some police department

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Speaker 2: in a big city that is offering like twenty thousand

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Speaker 2: dollars signing bonuses because there's not enough cops because people

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Speaker 2: don't want to do that job anyway. But I guess

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Speaker 2: back then you had to really like work your way

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Speaker 2: up to being a cop, right like, for whatever reason,

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Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe it's just where he lives in Georgia,

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Speaker 2: or maybe he's just not doesn't I don't know what.

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Speaker 2: Maybe he doesn't go at Maybe there was an easier

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Speaker 2: way to do it than he just didn't do I

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Speaker 2: don't know yet, but yeah, he becomes a cop through

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Speaker 2: working at the jail, right. Like, he does this for

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Speaker 2: like a year or so, and it's one of the

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Speaker 2: you can tell it's frustrating him because like working at

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Speaker 2: the jail, he's almost a real cop. He could like,

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Speaker 2: he could taste it, right, he could taste the authority,

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Speaker 2: and so he starts to get over eager. One of

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Speaker 2: my sources for this episode is an epic long form

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Speaker 2: article in Vanity Fair by Marie Britter, and she writes,

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Speaker 2: this is while he's still a jailer. Quote. He arrested

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Speaker 2: a couple making too much noise in a hot tub

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Speaker 2: in an apartment building where he did part time security work.

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Speaker 2: He was arrested for impersonating an officer, and after pleading

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Speaker 2: guilty to a lesser charge, was placed on probation on

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Speaker 2: the condition that he seeks psychological counseling. You get to like,

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Speaker 2: this guy wants to be a cop so bad it's

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Speaker 2: kind of a problem, like man.

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Speaker 3: Turning him into a peeping tom.

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Speaker 2: First off, cops generally don't arrest people for being noisy

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Speaker 2: in a hot tub. Even a cop is usually going

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Speaker 2: to be like, hey, we got a noise complaint. Chill

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Speaker 2: out right like this guy or just like busting in

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Speaker 2: and arresting people. You have to imagine he had an

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Speaker 2: illegally carried gun on him that he was just like

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Speaker 2: these hot tub guys pull something on me. I'm just

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Speaker 2: gonna blast him. We're being a little mean to Richard here.

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Speaker 2: He is legitimately a hero in the end, but like,

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Speaker 2: this is funny. I'm sorry, this is just this is

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Speaker 2: just funny, Richard. This is a stupid thing that you did.

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Speaker 2: He's dead now, it's fine. It doesn't care. So if

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Speaker 2: a guy is so eager to be a cop that

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Speaker 2: the instant he gets a job, sitting in the same

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Speaker 2: room as a cop, he illegally arrests a couple for

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Speaker 2: a noise complaint. That might be a warning sign not

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Speaker 2: to give that person a badge and gun. But somehow

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Speaker 2: Jewel worked his way up to being hired as a deputy.

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Speaker 2: In nineteen ninety one, he goes to the North in America.

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Speaker 2: I love it. Let's go and it's one of those yeah. Well,

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Speaker 2: he goes to Northeast Georgia political Academy. He does well.

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Speaker 2: He graduates in the upper twenty five percent of the class.

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Speaker 2: He said that he read the Georgia Legal Code for fun,

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Speaker 2: like he's obsessed with cop stuff. So I have no

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Speaker 2: doubt that when it came to the in class portions

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Speaker 2: of it, he aced everything right, like he's been prepped

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Speaker 2: for this forever.

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Speaker 3: I don't know how he did the obstacle.

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Speaker 2: Course that might have been harder for him. Although this

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Speaker 2: is Georgia, you know, we're not talking about a lot

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Speaker 2: of cops who are like fucking superstar athletes in a

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Speaker 2: rural Georgia sheriff's department. So he becomes a real cop.

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Speaker 2: He now has a real badge and a real gun,

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Speaker 2: and he is ready to get out there and fight

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Speaker 2: crime a las. Poor Richard is about to run face

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Speaker 2: to face into a reality that it's I don't know

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Speaker 2: if he ever really fully accepts it, right, But this

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Speaker 2: is like the great tragedy of Richard jules life, which

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Speaker 2: is that he wants to be a cop. And I say,

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Speaker 2: this is a guy who doesn't want there to be cops.

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Speaker 2: He wants to be a cop for what you would

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Speaker 2: say are the right reasons. He cares deeply about the law.

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Speaker 2: He thinks it is important to abide by the law,

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Speaker 2: and he wants to protect people. Check right, that's why

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Speaker 2: he wants to become a cop. Police And this is

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Speaker 2: not me the left wing radical saying this. The Supreme

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Speaker 2: Court has ruled police have no duty to protect people,

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Speaker 2: and it is a fact, an undeniable fact, that police

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Speaker 2: all over the country break the law regularly, both in

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Speaker 2: pursuing suspects and lying on the stand about them and

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Speaker 2: falsifying evidence and planting evidence and using physical force that

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Speaker 2: they are not legally supposed to be using. Cops break

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Speaker 2: the law constantly. They are not there to protect people,

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Speaker 2: and they do not uphold the law. These are facts, right, Robert.

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Speaker 4: Did you ever have in your young Republican days did

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Speaker 4: you ever did you think ops were good?

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Speaker 2: I'm just curious, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean I wanted

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Speaker 2: to be a cop when I was a kid, right,

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Speaker 2: And I wanted to be a cop for the worst

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Speaker 2: possible reason, because at eighteen, if you become a cop,

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Speaker 2: you get to carry a gun while off duty, and

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Speaker 2: normally take you have to wait until you're twenty one

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Speaker 2: to carry a gun, which is the wrong reason to

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Speaker 2: become a cop, right, that's why you shouldn't let eighteen

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Speaker 2: year olds become cops, which they almost did.

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Speaker 1: You'd be the biggest crime committing cop we know.

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Speaker 2: And when I was when I wanted to be a cop,

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Speaker 2: which is again when I was like eighteen nineteen, part

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Speaker 2: of why it was possible for me to have become

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Speaker 2: one is that Dallas had just had to can a

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Speaker 2: shitload of officers over a massive fake drug scandal, so

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Speaker 2: like recruitment was down and they were desperate for Peter right,

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Speaker 2: you could not reason. Yeah, I don't think I would

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Speaker 2: have made it long. Like literally, within like a month

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Speaker 2: or two of making my first calls for the police

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Speaker 2: and like setting up that starting that process, I started

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Speaker 2: experimenting with drugs. And as soon as I took two CI,

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Speaker 2: I was like, oh, I'm not going to be a cop.

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Speaker 2: Oh what the fuck? Was I thinking? Absolutely not? Are

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Speaker 2: you kidding me?

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Speaker 4: No?

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00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:50,560
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no no. I want to do drugs.

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Speaker 2: That sounds way better than being a cop. And it

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Speaker 2: was for about ten years, and then at a certain

362
00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:58,200
Speaker 2: point you have to do less drugs.

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Speaker 3: Heard, Yeah, that's.

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00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:03,720
Speaker 2: My that's my my dare class for kids.

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Speaker 4: Kids.

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Speaker 2: I'm looking I'm looking at this room, I'm seeing a

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00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:08,600
Speaker 2: lot of seventeen and eighteen year old You guys got

368
00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:11,320
Speaker 2: a solid twelve years before you got to curtail your

369
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:15,119
Speaker 2: drug use, you know, so really enjoy this time. You know,

370
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:17,600
Speaker 2: test everything for fitanyl, but other than that, go wild.

371
00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:19,920
Speaker 2: You know, whatever you can fit in your body, throw

372
00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:23,119
Speaker 2: it in there. Don't ask questions, Just do it and

373
00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:26,040
Speaker 2: run off into the sunset. It'll be great when you're

374
00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:29,280
Speaker 2: twenty nine, and maybe start to start pulling back on

375
00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:32,479
Speaker 2: that throttle, you know, hit the brakes.

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Speaker 3: What Jesus Christ.

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00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:37,119
Speaker 2: I always give our child listeners good advice.

378
00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:39,880
Speaker 3: Nonk, no fintanyl, no trink.

379
00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:42,720
Speaker 2: No finanyl, no trank. Maybe try crocodile. If you get

380
00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:44,760
Speaker 2: a chance to try that weird Russian drug that melts

381
00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:47,560
Speaker 2: your skin, try that shit. You know it sounds dope.

382
00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:49,840
Speaker 2: I never got to do crocodile. I regret it now

383
00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:54,600
Speaker 2: that I'm in my sober era. Gas station sober and

384
00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:58,920
Speaker 2: maybe they'll by gas station crocodile. Anyway, we were talking

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Speaker 2: about how cops break the law lot and anyway, again,

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Speaker 2: I have my opinions on this that are grounded in fact,

387
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Speaker 2: but I also want to like cite facts and if

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Speaker 2: I make a statement like cops break the law constantly. So.

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Speaker 2: A twenty sixteen study by researchers at Bowling Green University

390
00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:19,159
Speaker 2: looked into nearly six seven thousand cases of police officers

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Speaker 2: being arrested and charged with crimes between two thousand and

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Speaker 2: five and twenty eleven. They concluded, quote, police crimes are

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Speaker 2: not uncommon now. One of the things this study notes

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Speaker 2: is that only about a thousand officers are arrested each

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Speaker 2: year in charge with crimes. But there are a lot

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Speaker 2: more cops than that. Commit number one cops, it's very

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Speaker 2: easy for them to get away with crimes. The number

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Speaker 2: of cops who could break the law and don't get

399
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Speaker 2: caught because they're cops is exponentially higher than a thousand.

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Speaker 2: But there's also a lot of cases, and there's documentation

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Speaker 2: of how often there's interviews with other cops that'll talk

402
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Speaker 2: about this, of police breaking the law and having it

403
00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:56,680
Speaker 2: swept under the rug. Right. Well, they'll get a warning

404
00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:59,359
Speaker 2: from you know, maybe someone above them or something, but like, look,

405
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Speaker 2: you know, just get your car home. I know you're

406
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Speaker 2: drunk tonight. Because you're another officer, I'll let you off

407
00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:08,119
Speaker 2: you as a professional courtesy you know, protector own again,

408
00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:11,600
Speaker 2: there's data on this. It happens constantly. That said, the

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00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:14,800
Speaker 2: data on win cops do actually fuck up enough to

410
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Speaker 2: get charged with crimes, the data on what crimes they

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Speaker 2: commit is really interesting. From a summary in a Huffington

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Speaker 2: Post article by Matt Ferner, quote, the alleged crimes cops

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Speaker 2: whore arrested fore most frequently were simple assault, driving under

414
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Speaker 2: the influence, and aggravated assault. Altogether, those crimes made up

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Speaker 2: one third of the total cases. There were also a

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Speaker 2: considerable number of sex crime cases, including forcible fondling and

417
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Speaker 2: forcible rape, about ten percent of all cases, and disturbingly,

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Speaker 2: the sex crimes included some victims under the age of eighteen.

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Speaker 2: If you are looking at the vast majority of child

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Speaker 2: sex abuse is people who are related to the child.

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Speaker 2: When you move out from people who are directly related

422
00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:52,520
Speaker 2: to the child, the most common people who abuse kids

423
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Speaker 2: are like members of the clergy, medical professionals, and police officers,

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Speaker 2: not in that order necessarily, but yes, because they have

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Speaker 2: access and because they have plug you know.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so wait, sex crimes and what was the first

427
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Speaker 4: thing you said.

428
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Speaker 2: Oh, driving under the influence, cops drive drunk all the

429
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Speaker 2: fuck of time, and some assault just hitting, beating people,

430
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Speaker 2: beating spouses. You know, fifty percent of police officer homes

431
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Speaker 2: have domestic violence in them.

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Speaker 3: Do you remember that South Dakota? Was he a cop

433
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Speaker 3: or a politician.

434
00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:24,680
Speaker 2: Or sin something like that, which one.

435
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:25,560
Speaker 3: Just a couple of years ago.

436
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:28,040
Speaker 4: But he fucking killed a guy and then drove home,

437
00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,680
Speaker 4: and that they I mean, I think he got away

438
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:32,080
Speaker 4: with it.

439
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:34,560
Speaker 2: Well good for him. You know we all, we all

440
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:35,840
Speaker 2: would hope to be able to get away with at

441
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:38,199
Speaker 2: least one murder in our lives. I can't blame a

442
00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:39,840
Speaker 2: man for that, for just wanting to kill a guy

443
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:43,320
Speaker 2: and get away with its most normal thing to want.

444
00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:47,000
Speaker 2: I don't know why I said that. So, the most

445
00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:49,080
Speaker 2: common crime committed by police is also the one they

446
00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:52,399
Speaker 2: get arrested for the least often, which is lying under oath.

447
00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:55,600
Speaker 2: This is so common that cops have a term for

448
00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:58,080
Speaker 2: it called testa lying. And if you know, I have

449
00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:00,600
Speaker 2: a friend who became a lawyer and was briefly a

450
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:04,159
Speaker 2: prosecutor and stopped being a prosecutor because he was like,

451
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:07,400
Speaker 2: I just kept going. I kept sitting down with police

452
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:10,479
Speaker 2: officers and saying, are you sure this is accurate, and

453
00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:13,159
Speaker 2: then when it came to trial it would be like

454
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:16,720
Speaker 2: they lied, right, Like that happened. That happened so many

455
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:18,760
Speaker 2: times that I put my ass out there as a

456
00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:21,479
Speaker 2: prosecutor because a cop told me no, this is definitely

457
00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:23,919
Speaker 2: what happened, and they were fucking lying. It happens all

458
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:27,239
Speaker 2: the goddamn time. And again there's documentation about this. This

459
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:30,080
Speaker 2: is such a problem that in New York City prosecutors

460
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:34,520
Speaker 2: have a secret database of untrustworthy cops. Again, a secret

461
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:37,920
Speaker 2: database of cops that like, yeah, we if you're a prosecutor,

462
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:39,600
Speaker 2: don't let this guy up on the stand if he's

463
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:41,400
Speaker 2: telling you something it's like full of shit. But also,

464
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:44,119
Speaker 2: we're not going to report this anywhere. More broadly, in

465
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:47,159
Speaker 2: the nineteen nineties, the Malin Commission carried out a sweeping

466
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,800
Speaker 2: investigation of the NYPD, and it found that perjury and

467
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:53,320
Speaker 2: falsification of records were routine by police and quote the

468
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,639
Speaker 2: most common form of police corruption. You might want to

469
00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,399
Speaker 2: note that those two crimes tend to be committed in

470
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:03,360
Speaker 2: order to get a conviction against a defendant. Right, if

471
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:07,879
Speaker 2: you are lying under oath and falsifying records, the most

472
00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:11,080
Speaker 2: likely reason you were doing that is because there was

473
00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 2: a crime and you're pretty sure the guy you got

474
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:18,160
Speaker 2: did it, but you can't prove it, so you're lying

475
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:22,199
Speaker 2: to make it easier to secure a conviction. Right, Or

476
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:24,639
Speaker 2: you don't know the guy did it, or think the

477
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:27,040
Speaker 2: guy did it, you just hate him because you're a bigot,

478
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 2: or you want to fuck his wife or whatever. Right,

479
00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:32,400
Speaker 2: and you're doing that, you know. But the most common

480
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,840
Speaker 2: crime committed by cops all over is lying under oath

481
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:38,600
Speaker 2: and falsifying records, and that those two things are generally

482
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:43,960
Speaker 2: done to get people convicted, right, Cops lie to get convictions.

483
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:46,960
Speaker 4: I love how we go around saying like lying under

484
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 4: oath is a felony, like your mail is a felony.

485
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:52,679
Speaker 3: It's like, no, you can totally do those things.

486
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:56,880
Speaker 2: I steal mail all the time, baby, but I don't

487
00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:58,919
Speaker 2: keep it for myself. I hand it out to other

488
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,880
Speaker 2: people who don't have it off. Yeah yeah, yeah exactly.

489
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:05,600
Speaker 2: I take mail from those It's like it's me living

490
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:09,800
Speaker 2: out my Marxist praxis, you know, from each according to

491
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:11,640
Speaker 2: their ability to have a lot of mail in their

492
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,880
Speaker 2: mailbox to those without as much mail in their mailbox.

493
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:16,760
Speaker 2: I think that's what Marx was talking about, I didn't

494
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,960
Speaker 2: make it all the way through capital. I go through

495
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:21,360
Speaker 2: all this. This is a bit of a digression from

496
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 2: Richard Jewel, but it's important to note that the vast

497
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,959
Speaker 2: majority of criminal behavior inside our justice system is perpetrated

498
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 2: by police officers, and not just police officers, but by

499
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:33,399
Speaker 2: people who are in the justice system who are attempting

500
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 2: to get convictions and have to futz with the truth

501
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:39,960
Speaker 2: in order to secure conviction because the actual evidence isn't

502
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,520
Speaker 2: strong enough. Right. That's an important point. And I know

503
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:45,119
Speaker 2: this has been a long digression, but I need to

504
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:47,160
Speaker 2: emphasize it a little further. So I'm going to read

505
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,360
Speaker 2: one quote from a very good Slate article by Mark

506
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 2: Stern titled the police lie all the time? Can anything

507
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 2: stop them? Quote? When NYPD officers are accused of illegal behavior,

508
00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,879
Speaker 2: the department itself usually investigates, then conceals its findings in

509
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,359
Speaker 2: imposes at worst a slap on the risk like brief

510
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 2: paid leave. Prosecutors could separately investigate, but they have little

511
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:08,880
Speaker 2: incentive to question an officer's story. If they know an

512
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 2: officer is lying, they cannot legally rely on his testimony.

513
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 2: If they remain in the dark, they can still use

514
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:17,879
Speaker 2: his perjury to clinch a conviction. Moreover, prosecutors and police

515
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,720
Speaker 2: work together to put defendants behind bars, developing a team

516
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 2: mentality that prevents prosecutors from scrutinizing officers testimony with appropriate skepticism.

517
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,360
Speaker 2: As long as officers lies cannot be proved false, prosecutors

518
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 2: have little reason to question their account of events. As

519
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,920
Speaker 2: a New York assistant district attorney told the Maulin Commission,

520
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,160
Speaker 2: taking money is considered dirty, but perjury for the sake

521
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 2: of an arrest is accepted. It's become more casual. Great,

522
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,359
Speaker 2: this takes us to Richard Jewel. But first, you know

523
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 2: what Richard Jewel would have loved if he were alive

524
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 2: to see this.

525
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:48,960
Speaker 3: Ads.

526
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 2: He would have loved ads supporting podcasts. That would have

527
00:25:53,240 --> 00:26:04,679
Speaker 2: been Richard Jewele's favorite thing. Ah tragic. We're back and

528
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 2: we're talking about police officers lying under oath in order

529
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 2: to secure arrests and convictions. Right, and Richard Jewel, I tell,

530
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 2: I've just told you this guy wants to be a

531
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 2: cop more than anything. He idolizes cops. He is not

532
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:20,199
Speaker 2: the kind of guy I don't think who would have

533
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,439
Speaker 2: lied to get an arrest. Or to get a conviction.

534
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:27,160
Speaker 2: He does. He is a true believer, right, and that's

535
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 2: gonna cause him problems, right, because I'm not saying this

536
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:32,080
Speaker 2: to like, I don't think he's a he's not a

537
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,159
Speaker 2: person I would consider. I don't consider his ethics to

538
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:38,399
Speaker 2: be ethical, right, Like, I don't think it's ethical to

539
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 2: arrest people for making noise in a hot tub, right.

540
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:44,639
Speaker 2: And he's very serious about a lot of stuff that

541
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:48,480
Speaker 2: I don't agree with. But he's consistent. He's internally consistent.

542
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 2: He does believe in the law, and he's not a liar.

543
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 4: Right.

544
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 2: He's a very He described himself as a very methodical person.

545
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 2: He liked to plan out everything. He read the Georgia

546
00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:00,240
Speaker 2: Legal Code for fun. And he's not gonna fit in

547
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:04,239
Speaker 2: with the Sheriff's department because he wants to be a

548
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 2: good cop and they have a very different idea about

549
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 2: what a good cop is. Right. He described the rural

550
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:13,399
Speaker 2: county he worked in as like going back into the

551
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 2: seventies in terms of law enforcement. In other words, this

552
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,200
Speaker 2: is a place where there's good old boys who enjoy

553
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 2: limited immunity to crimes, and there's other people, skin color

554
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:26,400
Speaker 2: dependent who are You're much more free to harass or hassle, right,

555
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 2: and that's not the kind of cop Jewel wants to be,

556
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,359
Speaker 2: right if this were. He's kind of like Sergeant Nicholas

557
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:37,640
Speaker 2: Angel in Hot Fuzz, right, where he's like he's too

558
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,119
Speaker 2: good for the rest of the department, Except he's not

559
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 2: very good at the job either, right, Like, he has

560
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,359
Speaker 2: really good and very strict intentions, but he's not like

561
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,119
Speaker 2: the most competent at police work. And he's also pissing

562
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 2: everyone off because he takes a lot of stuff seriously

563
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:55,679
Speaker 2: that they don't take seriously, and he doesn't like it

564
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 2: when other people are kind of more loosey goosey with

565
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:02,199
Speaker 2: the rules. So he gets sidelined mostly into dealing with

566
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,480
Speaker 2: car accidents, right, because that's the part of the job

567
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:06,919
Speaker 2: he does well and nobody else really wants to do it.

568
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:10,400
Speaker 2: He works really hard, he puts in fourteen hour days.

569
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 2: He volunteers to host community events. He's the cop that

570
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,359
Speaker 2: they'll he'll go talk to a school or whatever. He

571
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,160
Speaker 2: loves doing that kind of shit, But his fellow officers

572
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 2: are kind of just after they get to know him,

573
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 2: waiting for an excuse to shitcan him and get him

574
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 2: off of the force, right, because again he's kind of

575
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 2: cramping their style and he's attempting to the story. He

576
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 2: tells us that he was trying to pursue someone and

577
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 2: he crashes his police car in nineteen ninety five, and

578
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 2: that's the chance these people had been waiting for, right,

579
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 2: So he is demoted, he loses his badge. He's offered

580
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 2: to stay working at the jail, but Richard is unwilling

581
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 2: to return to that kind of life, so he resigns

582
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 2: from the force and he gets the kind of job

583
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 2: that you get when you're a failed cop. He becomes

584
00:28:56,120 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 2: a campus cop, right, perfect, Yeah, that's the it's the

585
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 2: circle of cop. So Piedmont College hires him and he

586
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 2: immediately gets a reputation. Again, he's super diligent, like he

587
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 2: will absolutely write people up for every infraction he sees,

588
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 2: and he will pursue the kind of infractions you know.

589
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 2: College campus cops generally you understand like it at certain

590
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 2: times and stuff. People are going to party, there's going

591
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 2: to be underage drinking, and you don't always go after that,

592
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 2: right because, like for what they it's kind of impossible

593
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 2: to police it all. So you kind of triage that

594
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 2: sort of shit. Right, Richard can't stand any kind of

595
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 2: violation of the rules, and so he goes after kids

596
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 2: whenever he sees any kind of infraction. He's issuing tickets,

597
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 2: he's trying to arrest people. He is very aggressive about this,

598
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 2: to the point that the president of the college gets

599
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 2: calls three or four times a week from different people

600
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 2: complaining to him about Jeweles behavior. Right, Like, he thinks,

601
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 2: my job is to be a cop, and the real

602
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 2: job is to basically be a babysitter and make sure

603
00:29:59,080 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 2: kids don't.

604
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 3: Die, right, Yeah, that they don't hurt themselves.

605
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 4: I'm sure they love to fuck with him, though, Oh

606
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 4: my god, he's like the.

607
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 2: Dream absolutely And he again he does sound like the

608
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 2: most annoying campus cop. And it was during them, his

609
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 2: campus cop days, that Richard would notch his one real

610
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 2: victory in the war on crime. During a manhunt for

611
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 2: a suspected burglar, he spotted the culprit hiding near the

612
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 2: top of a tree. Writing for Vanity Fair, Marie Brynner

613
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 2: notes that Jewel had arguments over turf with other officers.

614
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 2: He described himself as the kind of cop who is

615
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 2: eager to track down people partying after hours and call

616
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 2: their parents. Oh and this obsession, yeah, this all clashes

617
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 2: with what his employers want him to do. The president

618
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 2: of the university repeatedly begs him, hey man, calm the

619
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 2: fuck down, like he's up. This is not what we

620
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 2: want you doing, and Richard refuses to bend, so he

621
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 2: resigns rather than accept that some kids are going to

622
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 2: drink on campus and maybe you need to chill out.

623
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 4: Right.

624
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 2: So, once this job falls through, he finds himself back

625
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 2: in Atlanta, looking for a new job and living with

626
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 2: his mother. Now, because of the way this all timed out,

627
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 2: the Olympics is coming to town, right, this is the

628
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 2: Atlanta Olympics. I don't know why the fuck you'd want

629
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 2: to hold an Olympics in a city that has such

630
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 2: nightmarish summer weather and horrible traffic. But they only host

631
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 2: cities in places with horrible traffic, or host Olympics in

632
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 2: places with horrible traffic, which is why they're doing it

633
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 2: in La next maybe the only city worse than Atlanta

634
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 2: to do the Olympics in the good fucking lucky Olympic

635
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 2: dick shits. I hope you enjoy it.

636
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 3: I remember watching this one.

637
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 2: Great gymnastics, Yeah, great gymnastics, great terrorism, all sorts of

638
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 2: good stuff in this Olympics. So Richard is excited for

639
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 2: the Olympics because you know, they're a disaster for any

640
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 2: city's economy.

641
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 4: Right.

642
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 2: They never really work out very well in the long run,

643
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 2: But in the short term they work out really well

644
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 2: for one group of people, which is security guards, because

645
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 2: you need a shitload of security guards standing around all

646
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 2: of these different venues and you know areas of the

647
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 2: city that have been like walled off for the event

648
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 2: to tell people, hey, you can't be here, or to

649
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 2: help generally, to help people like figure out where they're

650
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 2: supposed to go, right, You're kind of glorified like maths.

651
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 2: A lot of the time. I helped desk as a

652
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 2: security guard in the situation. But you need a lot

653
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 2: of those guys, right, because it's the fucking Olympics. So

654
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 2: Jewele later recalled thinking, I thought working at the Centennial

655
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 2: Olympic Park will look really good on my resume. I

656
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 2: don't know that that's the case. That's the kind of

657
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 2: man Richard was. He gets the job easily enough, and

658
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 2: he brings the same attitude to this next gig that

659
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 2: he brought to his previous career as a real cop.

660
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 2: It was actual job, as best as I can put

661
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 2: it together, was to stand overnight by a sound and

662
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 2: light tower near the main stage area. The people who'd

663
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 2: planned for the Olympic Atlanta Olympics did a terrible job,

664
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 2: as is always the case when people planned for an Olympics,

665
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 2: and so the whole downtown area, the whole Olympic Park downtown,

666
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 2: which is like twenty one acres, was constantly claught. It

667
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 2: was a nightmare. Athletes are regularly late for their events

668
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 2: because they just like can't get through this shit. Almost

669
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 2: nobody who's in this park is from Atlantis. They don't

670
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 2: know where they're going anyway, and everything's like walled off

671
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 2: and fenced off in a weird way. It's just a

672
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 2: fucking Titanic mess. So his job is helping to manage

673
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 2: foot traffic and help lost people get where they're going. Now.

674
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 2: Marie Brynner talked extensively with Richard Jewel for her piece,

675
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 2: and he gives us in some of these interviews, we

676
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 2: get clips, like pieces of his day to day life

677
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 2: that do not make this sound like a demanding job.

678
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 4: Right.

679
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 2: This is on paper supposed to be kind of a

680
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:32,720
Speaker 2: do nothing gig quote. Jewel had a routine he would

681
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 2: check in and fill the ice chest he kept by

682
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,480
Speaker 2: a bench at his station. Jewel liked to offer water

683
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 2: and cokes to pregnant women or policemen who stop to rest.

684
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 2: Those are the two guys who deserve cokes. Pregnant women

685
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 2: and cops.

686
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 3: One of them probably shouldn't have cokes.

687
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 2: But that's one of them. Probably shouldn't have a coke.

688
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:51,600
Speaker 2: I don't know. Fuck it, yeah, a little bit of

689
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 2: a little bit of caffee. I think we get too

690
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 2: we're too protective of fetuses these days.

691
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 3: I agree. I agree. Eat sushi whatever, it doesn't matter,

692
00:33:59,360 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 3: eat sush.

693
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 2: She have some coffee, A little bit of crack cocaine

694
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:07,560
Speaker 2: probably not bad for you. What just a little bit,

695
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 2: a little bit. It's cleaner as a hunter. Biden reminded us,

696
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 2: all it's cleaner than it's basically like an apple. So

697
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,320
Speaker 2: very little is expected of Richard Jewel in his job

698
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 2: as security guard, but as usual, he takes the job

699
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:24,920
Speaker 2: very seriously. This is one thing I'll say for him.

700
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 2: He doesn't consider in a normal instance, maybe we'd call

701
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:32,760
Speaker 2: this sad, but he doesn't consider being a security guard

702
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,319
Speaker 2: to be any less serious than being a police officer. Right.

703
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,600
Speaker 2: He treats the job the same way, and thank god

704
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 2: he did, because he's going to save a shitload of

705
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:44,920
Speaker 2: people's lives. This is really like a wild moment of

706
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 2: like this guy. Every other thing else I've said about

707
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:49,360
Speaker 2: him is this is like the fucking set up to

708
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 2: a very depressing not Adam Sandler Rob Schneider movie, right,

709
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 2: or I guess Paul Blart Malcot might be a better

710
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 2: fucking comparison or whatever. But like, it doesn't sound like

711
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:06,280
Speaker 2: we're setting up for this guy to have be very impressive,

712
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 2: but he is, because again, he treats this job like

713
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 2: it's life and death and it's about to be a

714
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 2: bit after midnight on July twenty seventh, nineteen ninety six,

715
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:18,880
Speaker 2: jul is doing his rounds and he notices that the

716
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:22,319
Speaker 2: people at Budworld, which I'm assuming was a pop up

717
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:26,839
Speaker 2: bar sponsored by Budweiser, we're getting kind of rowdy and loud. Now.

718
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 2: I wanted to know what bud World was, so in

719
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:31,840
Speaker 2: order in an effort to do my due diligence, I

720
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,960
Speaker 2: googled bud World Olympics, which brought up this television ad

721
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 2: which I'm just gonna get everybody so weaken before we

722
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 2: move on here. Everyone just needs a little hit of

723
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 2: the nineteen nineties, just like just like one quick dose,

724
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:44,760
Speaker 2: you know, just a little bump to get us through.

725
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 3: Oh, I can't wait.

726
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:49,880
Speaker 2: Okay, World, everyone's got to add something to the party.

727
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 2: In Mexico. You've got this awfu Saiti sunset. How about

728
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:58,920
Speaker 2: two weeks were France La We'll get back to your France,

729
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:01,759
Speaker 2: gree the hook he started the whole thing.

730
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:06,880
Speaker 3: Malaysia, Yeah, some of those Norway, you're in charge.

731
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 4: Of the ice.

732
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:12,719
Speaker 2: Uh. We got the Fudd the Bud World party during

733
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 2: the ninety six Summer Games.

734
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 3: Now everybody else has culture. We got beer.

735
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:22,840
Speaker 2: That was my question, like who is this most racist

736
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,719
Speaker 2: to because it, weirdly enough, I think it's Americans. Yes,

737
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 2: where it's like, oh yeah, all these other cultures got there.

738
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess Norway is just being like Ice.

739
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:36,280
Speaker 2: That's kind of fucked up too. Oh the nineties. Okay,

740
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 2: now that we've all gotten that, that that quick, quick,

741
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,839
Speaker 2: hot hit of the nineties, let's get let's get back

742
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 2: to the terrorist attack that we're talking about. So Jewel

743
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 2: Richard jewel here's people getting drunken rowdy at the bud

744
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,359
Speaker 2: World event where you're supposed to get drunken rowdy, right,

745
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 2: and worse, he sees that people have spilled out of

746
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 2: the event itself and there's like leaving beers on the

747
00:36:55,960 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 2: ground and wandering around and you know, being a problem.

748
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 2: And him being the campus cop who got fired for

749
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 2: being too angry at people partying, he leaps into action

750
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:08,320
Speaker 2: and he goes off to report the trash and the

751
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 2: quote carousing. And this may be the only time in

752
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 2: history where a rent a cop being overly a buzzkill

753
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:19,719
Speaker 2: works out because on his way to report the not

754
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 2: really a crime in progress, he notices something. Someone has

755
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 2: left a green military style backpack lying on the ground unattended.

756
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:32,279
Speaker 2: So Richard reports the bag and a small team of

757
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:34,799
Speaker 2: law enforcement bears down on the area and they start

758
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 2: looking around to try to find the bag's owner. And

759
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:39,839
Speaker 2: interviews after the fact, Jewelry recalled that he didn't take

760
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:42,879
Speaker 2: this seriously at first. They'd found a similar unattended bag

761
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,399
Speaker 2: a few days ago, and he expected this to end

762
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:48,360
Speaker 2: like that had, right, So as soon as he calls

763
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 2: out the bag and you cops start trying to figure

764
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:53,759
Speaker 2: out who the bag belongs to. He winds up in

765
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 2: an argument with a group of drunk people who like

766
00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:59,760
Speaker 2: smudge a camer lens, and then he kind of realizes

767
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 2: like they're not finding the owner of the bag. So

768
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 2: he walks over to this GBI, the Georgia's Bureau of Investigation,

769
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:08,959
Speaker 2: it's like the state FBI for Georgia, and he asked

770
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:11,080
Speaker 2: the guy, are you going to open it? And then

771
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:14,000
Speaker 2: here's Jewell quote. At that point, it was not a concern.

772
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 2: I was thinking to myself, well, I'm sure one of

773
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 2: these people left it on the ground. When Davis, that

774
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:20,840
Speaker 2: the GBI agent, came back and said nobody said it

775
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:23,279
Speaker 2: was theirs, that's when the little hairs on the back

776
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 2: of my head began to stand up. I thought, uh, oh,

777
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 2: this is not good. So he and that agent clear

778
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:31,000
Speaker 2: a twenty five foot square. They start getting people away.

779
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:32,919
Speaker 2: They're like, everyone needs to clear the area. Clear the area,

780
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:35,320
Speaker 2: and they clear a twenty five foot square around the bag.

781
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:38,319
Speaker 3: Nobody looks in the bag or like that's no, you.

782
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 2: You really, because who knows if that's what triggers it, right,

783
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:44,879
Speaker 2: if like opening it or whatever would set it off

784
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 2: or something you you as a security guard, and some

785
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:52,320
Speaker 2: random guy from the GBI shouldn't like obviously bomb people,

786
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 2: but like you don't. You don't want some guy who

787
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 2: has no fucking idea what he's doing with explosives to

788
00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:57,759
Speaker 2: look into that.

789
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 4: Bag, right, I just don't look at a I totally agree,

790
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:03,280
Speaker 4: but I don't look at a backpack, and I'm like, bomb.

791
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:05,880
Speaker 3: But I guess in this situation you have to Yes.

792
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 2: Thank god he did, right, Like yeah, it is like,

793
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:09,239
Speaker 2: this is one of those things where I have to say,

794
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 2: nearly everyone would have just been just a fucking bag,

795
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:16,319
Speaker 2: but it wasn't. And Richard was in there, right, you know,

796
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:19,759
Speaker 2: he was waiting his whole life of being like overly

797
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:24,879
Speaker 2: paranoid and fucking serious about shit for the one time

798
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:27,840
Speaker 2: in which it mattered and saved a shitload of people's lives.

799
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 2: So he does a circle while they're clearing people where

800
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 2: he starts sticking his head in different structures in the

801
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 2: park and basically saying, hey, get out of whatever, cause

802
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:37,239
Speaker 2: there's you know, there's different Like you've got these like

803
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:39,600
Speaker 2: booths where people are like filming for different day and

804
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:41,399
Speaker 2: like yelling at people, get the fuck out now, get

805
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 2: the fuck out now, right, And he deserves a lot

806
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 2: of credit here. He flips from normal day wandering around

807
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:51,320
Speaker 2: angry at drunk people too. I have to clear this area,

808
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 2: something really bad could be happening. And he does this

809
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 2: before he knows there's a bomb there. He just I

810
00:39:57,640 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 2: think that it must just be instinct or whatever. But

811
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:01,759
Speaker 2: as a result, because of how many people he and

812
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 2: this other guy Davis clear away. When the bomb goes off,

813
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 2: and it's sometime after one in the morning, it's like

814
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 2: a little after one am, it doesn't harm nobody, right,

815
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 2: but it harms only a fraction of the people who

816
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 2: might otherwise have been present. Like the if the pipe bob,

817
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 2: if the area had been as crowded as it was

818
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 2: supposed to be, I mean, it could have been a

819
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:29,360
Speaker 2: dozen or more people dead, like potentially dozens and dozens injured,

820
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 2: you know, and like.

821
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:31,840
Speaker 3: How many people died.

822
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 2: Two deaths, one directly and one indirectly, and like one

823
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:40,879
Speaker 2: hundred eleven injuries. So if they hadn't cleared the area,

824
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 2: it killed two people and injured more than one hundred

825
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 2: after they had cleared the area. If they hadn't cleared

826
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:48,320
Speaker 2: the area, if it was still full of drunk people

827
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 2: and camera crews and the like, like just a nightmare.

828
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 2: Like it would have been much worse. They saved a

829
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 2: lot of people's lives, right, I mean, easily more than

830
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 2: a dozen lives. I don't know how. It's impossible to

831
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:03,760
Speaker 2: say how many, but I would have been shocked if

832
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:06,239
Speaker 2: it had been if it was any less than that, right,

833
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 2: they This really is a significant thing that Jewel does,

834
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:14,279
Speaker 2: and Jewel and this other guy Davis do, But Jewel

835
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 2: is the guy who notices at first. Probably nobody would

836
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 2: have picked it out if he hadn't, right, because this

837
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 2: was his area and it was his job to be

838
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:25,400
Speaker 2: on guard. And he was right, which kind of justifies

839
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:28,200
Speaker 2: his entire life up to this point, right, you know,

840
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:32,919
Speaker 2: And that should be a happy story, right, this kind

841
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:36,920
Speaker 2: of happy hapless you know, guy who couldn't hack it

842
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:39,839
Speaker 2: as a cop, rent a cop, never got respect. He's

843
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:41,759
Speaker 2: finally a hero, He's legitimately a hero.

844
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 4: Right.

845
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:46,279
Speaker 2: They cleared and estimated seventy five to one hundred, one

846
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 2: hundred people away from the area, So again, at least

847
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 2: another seventy five to one hundred people would have been

848
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:53,960
Speaker 2: in the blast radius if they had not done what

849
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:57,800
Speaker 2: they did Nancy Coleman for The New York Times rites quote.

850
00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 2: The pipe bomb inside the bag exploded minutes later. Alice

851
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:04,520
Speaker 2: s Hawthorne, a spectator from Albany, Georgia, died in the blast.

852
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:08,400
Speaker 2: Millie Uzannel, a Turkish cameraman running to cover the explosion,

853
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 2: died of a heart attack soon after. Right, so again,

854
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:13,280
Speaker 2: and that's, you know, a death from a heart attack,

855
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 2: so potentially, assuming that hadn't happened, Like you're talking one

856
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:21,360
Speaker 2: death directly from the explosion as opposed to an additional

857
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:23,320
Speaker 2: seventy five to one hundred people being in the blast.

858
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 2: Ratis right, not not hard to imagine how much worse

859
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:30,839
Speaker 2: it could have been. Jewel kind of becomes a hero immediately,

860
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:33,879
Speaker 2: like he it's very clear from the jump that he's

861
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:36,359
Speaker 2: the guy who spotted this and what he had done.

862
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:39,799
Speaker 2: And he gets interviewed by local and national news later

863
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 2: that day, he tells CNN, the only thing I wish

864
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:44,640
Speaker 2: we could have done is got everybody out of the area.

865
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:46,839
Speaker 2: I feel for the victims and their families, and I mean,

866
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 2: it's the Olympics. It's supposed to be a time of

867
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 2: joy for the world, and it's a very very bad thing.

868
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:56,399
Speaker 2: And obviously he's traumatized by the explosion. He's there, he's

869
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:58,799
Speaker 2: at ground zero, he sees the injuries, he sees the

870
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:03,520
Speaker 2: person who's killed, so that he's fucked up by this, obviously,

871
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 2: but he's also undeniably the hero. And in a better world,

872
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:09,600
Speaker 2: he would have gotten the validation he'd always sought and

873
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:11,960
Speaker 2: it probably would have been good for his career. Right.

874
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:15,279
Speaker 2: I have trouble if this had been where the story ended.

875
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:17,680
Speaker 2: I have trouble imagining him not getting hired by a

876
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 2: police department somewhere only to get the good pr of

877
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 2: bringing on this hero security guard. Right.

878
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:24,879
Speaker 3: He could definitely work for ICE now for sure.

879
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:25,439
Speaker 4: Right? Well?

880
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:30,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, Unfortunately, the world is not a just place and

881
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:35,239
Speaker 2: instead of you know, this leading to him actually having

882
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:39,440
Speaker 2: a career, you know, in law enforcement, this nearly ruins

883
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:42,760
Speaker 2: his life, right, Like, this absolutely shatters him for quite

884
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 2: some time.

885
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:48,000
Speaker 3: So from the trust are you about to know? Okay?

886
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:52,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, So as soon as the blast happens, Jules old

887
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:56,240
Speaker 2: boss at Piedmont College, Ray Clear, sees his former employee

888
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:59,719
Speaker 2: on TV and he gets pissed because he didn't like

889
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 2: they'd fallen out when Richard caught a kid's smoking pot

890
00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 2: and insisted on arresting and charging the boy, and Clear

891
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 2: was like, no, just like cite him, you don't. We

892
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:12,400
Speaker 2: don't need any arrests of students over marijuana. That's like, don't,

893
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 2: don't do that, right, And obviously Clear is in the

894
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 2: right here. But because he doesn't like Richard Jewel, he

895
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 2: doesn't trust him, and he thinks that he's because he's

896
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:24,239
Speaker 2: kind of been He's this weird guy, right, he's like

897
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:28,239
Speaker 2: weirdly into being a cop. He's just had rubbed Clear

898
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 2: the wrong way. And so Clear calls the Georgia Buer

899
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:34,480
Speaker 2: of Investigation and he reports, Hey, this guy who everyone

900
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:36,759
Speaker 2: is saying is the hero, I think he's got a

901
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:39,839
Speaker 2: lot of attension seeking behavior and bad judgment and maybe

902
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 2: you should take another look into him, right, basically saying,

903
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:47,239
Speaker 2: maybe maybe he's set it up right, and you could

904
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 2: almost see you can see it a logic there. Okay,

905
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:50,799
Speaker 2: sure this guy had failed out of being a cop.

906
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 2: He wants to be a hero. Maybe he planted a

907
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:56,239
Speaker 2: bomb so that he could get everyone away from it.

908
00:44:56,400 --> 00:45:00,359
Speaker 2: Right now, that's a stretch, and the there is not

909
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 2: any evidence ever that this was the case. So again,

910
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 2: I think this is just a guy who didn't like

911
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:09,279
Speaker 2: Richard calling the GBI and trying to, like, out of

912
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:12,799
Speaker 2: jealousy or something, fuck up his former employee. But the

913
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 2: tip gets passed along to the FBI, and the FBI

914
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:18,520
Speaker 2: takes it seriously and they send out investigators to look

915
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 2: and do every aspect of Jules life.

916
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 1: Robert, I would never out you to the FBI, I promise.

917
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 2: Thank you, Sophie, that that is absolutely doesn't sound like

918
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:29,399
Speaker 2: something someone who just outed me to the FBI would say.

919
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 1: I would never do that. I would never do that.

920
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:34,440
Speaker 2: What if I arrested a kid for smoking pot?

921
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 3: Poor form? Even with enemies, I think, don't go out

922
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:40,719
Speaker 3: of your way to fuck with someone's life like you

923
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:42,440
Speaker 3: should be evidence.

924
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:45,120
Speaker 2: This guy was just like, hmmm, I don't know, he's

925
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:48,880
Speaker 2: got to use an attention seeker. I don't trust him, even.

926
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:50,600
Speaker 3: A weird guy. I didn't like him.

927
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 1: Let me call sir.

928
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:55,359
Speaker 2: You were being I was on your back for the

929
00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:58,759
Speaker 2: pot thing. But you are the dick here now, right, Yeah?

930
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:03,759
Speaker 2: And you know the initial investigation and honestly, any responsible

931
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:07,319
Speaker 2: investigation would have looked into Jewel a little, right because

932
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:11,120
Speaker 2: he was there, and you always like, that's not unreasonable

933
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:16,760
Speaker 2: to look into the guy, right, But being the FBI,

934
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 2: they pursue this in the most fucked up and scummy

935
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 2: way possible. So two days after the bombing, Jewel gets

936
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:25,279
Speaker 2: a phone call from a friend of his with the

937
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:28,960
Speaker 2: Georgia Bureau of Investigation. This is like somebody that he

938
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:31,840
Speaker 2: had been social with. I think somebody that he idolized,

939
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 2: because this guy is a real, you know, special agent, right,

940
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:37,799
Speaker 2: that's kind of what I want to do, right. And

941
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:41,040
Speaker 2: so the FBI when they find out that there's someone

942
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:43,399
Speaker 2: and the jerge of Bureau of Investigation who knows Jewel,

943
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 2: they're like, hey, he likes you, right, he thinks you're

944
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:49,520
Speaker 2: his friend, gets some info out of him, right, Yeah.

945
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 2: So this guy at the GBI calls Jewel and he's like, hey, buddy,

946
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:56,520
Speaker 2: who I probably hadn't talked to in weeks. I was

947
00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:59,400
Speaker 2: out of work the day the bombing happened. Mind if

948
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 2: I come over to your house and you tell me

949
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:04,239
Speaker 2: what happened. I'm just really curious about how you were

950
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:06,719
Speaker 2: such a hero. Obviously, this guy's wearing a wire the

951
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:11,959
Speaker 2: whole time, right. So Jewel is unaware, though he thinks

952
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:14,319
Speaker 2: that his cool friend in the GBI is proud of

953
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:16,640
Speaker 2: him and just wants to hear about his triumph and Mayami,

954
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:18,360
Speaker 2: who knows, maybe I could get a job at the

955
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:21,239
Speaker 2: GBI after this, right, you know, having just saved all

956
00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:26,920
Speaker 2: these people's lives. Now again, Jewel does not catch on.

957
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 2: But what's happened here is at this early stage, the

958
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:32,880
Speaker 2: FEDS have gone from considering Richard Jeul a hero to

959
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 2: within days suspecting him of being the bomber. Right almost immediately,

960
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:39,920
Speaker 2: he becomes their prime Like there's a couple of guys earlier,

961
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:42,760
Speaker 2: as we'll talk about who they'd seen, but very quickly

962
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:46,600
Speaker 2: he becomes the primary focus of the investigator, and the

963
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:51,480
Speaker 2: reasoning why they focus on him boils mostly down to laziness.

964
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:53,879
Speaker 2: And this is my opinion here, but I think there's

965
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:59,200
Speaker 2: some professional jealousy going on here too. Because the fbis

966
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:02,880
Speaker 2: out in at every Olympics in the US. Obviously, the

967
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:05,840
Speaker 2: GBI is there because it's in Georgia. These are the

968
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 2: premier law enforcement agencies in the region that are supposed

969
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:13,360
Speaker 2: to be making sure a bombing doesn't happen. They both

970
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 2: fuck up. A bomber gets through security with a bomb,

971
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:21,760
Speaker 2: enters the Olympic park area and sets off the bomb

972
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:25,440
Speaker 2: without being caught. And the only reason it wasn't worse

973
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:27,920
Speaker 2: and that dozens of people aren't dead is that a

974
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:32,120
Speaker 2: rent a cop outperformed the entire federal law enforcement apparatus,

975
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:35,000
Speaker 2: all of the millions of dollars in gear, the bomb

976
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:38,479
Speaker 2: sniffing dogs, the metal detectors, None of that did any shit.

977
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:41,479
Speaker 2: None of these highly paid special agents figured out fuck

978
00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:44,160
Speaker 2: none of them caught anyone anything one Before this happened.

979
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:47,480
Speaker 2: It was a rent a cop walking back to complain

980
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:50,640
Speaker 2: about some drunk kids who spotted the bomb and saved

981
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:54,080
Speaker 2: the day. Right, And I think that pisses off and

982
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:59,000
Speaker 2: embarrasses the FBI. I think the attitude for a lot

983
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:01,160
Speaker 2: of people in the bureau is like and it particularly

984
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:02,880
Speaker 2: is we'll talk about the guy who's the director of

985
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:05,399
Speaker 2: the BEAU at the time, is like, well, this looks

986
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:08,400
Speaker 2: really bad for us, unless that fucker was the bomber.

987
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:14,760
Speaker 2: Then then then the FBI gets to be the hero again,

988
00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 2: right once we once we take this guy down, Right now,

989
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:22,840
Speaker 2: you know who would never sell you out to the FBI?

990
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:27,239
Speaker 1: The product, Yeah, the products and services that support me.

991
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 2: Honestly, several of our sponsors would sell you out to

992
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:41,799
Speaker 2: the FBI. Anyway, here's a ans we're back. So the

993
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:44,960
Speaker 2: FBI is embarrassed, and this embarrassment also, it's not just

994
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:48,279
Speaker 2: that like they'd fucked up and let a bomb go

995
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:50,520
Speaker 2: off at the Olympic Park and the rent a cop

996
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:52,880
Speaker 2: was the guy who caught it. But this has been

997
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:55,040
Speaker 2: a bad This is we're talking ninety six. This has

998
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:57,680
Speaker 2: been a bad decade so far for the FBI and

999
00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 2: for federal law enforcement as a whole. Couple of years

1000
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:03,680
Speaker 2: ago you had Ruby Ridge and then Waco, and Waco

1001
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:06,000
Speaker 2: is still very fresh in the public mind. And then

1002
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 2: obviously the Oklahoma City bombing happens a year before this bombing, right,

1003
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:13,520
Speaker 2: and the FBI fails to stop it.

1004
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:16,359
Speaker 1: That's literally the trifecta.

1005
00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:20,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, they don't look good right now. And the

1006
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:24,080
Speaker 2: fact that yet another bomber bombed yet another high profile

1007
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:26,920
Speaker 2: place that the FBI is supposed to be protecting does

1008
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:28,080
Speaker 2: not make them look.

1009
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:30,680
Speaker 3: Good, right unless this guy did it.

1010
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:33,399
Speaker 2: Unless this guy did it and then we catch him

1011
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:37,360
Speaker 2: and then we're heroes again, right, And Yeah, the more

1012
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:39,640
Speaker 2: investigators looked into it, the more it looked like there

1013
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:42,120
Speaker 2: might be a case here. Because everyone they talk to

1014
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:44,440
Speaker 2: is they reach out to the guys. Number one. A

1015
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:47,560
Speaker 2: lot of Jeweles former co workers don't like him, and

1016
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:52,160
Speaker 2: they don't like him because they were I think, as

1017
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:55,960
Speaker 2: a general rule, shadier cops than he was, right, and

1018
00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:58,640
Speaker 2: because he's legitimately seems to have been kind of annoying, right, Like,

1019
00:50:58,719 --> 00:51:00,680
Speaker 2: he was very over zealous. But none of those things

1020
00:51:00,719 --> 00:51:04,239
Speaker 2: are like crime or terrorism adjacent.

1021
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 4: Right.

1022
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:08,439
Speaker 2: But they start putting together this because they're only looking

1023
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:10,640
Speaker 2: at a narrow and this is this kind of myopic

1024
00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:13,319
Speaker 2: detective blindness you get if you're only looking at a

1025
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:16,080
Speaker 2: really narrow subset of the facts, it can look well, okay,

1026
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:19,160
Speaker 2: we're just looking at jewel Oh, he's over zealous. He

1027
00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 2: really badly wants to be a cop. He do anything

1028
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:25,360
Speaker 2: to be a cop. Maybe he cooked all this up

1029
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:27,879
Speaker 2: for the benefit of his career, and it really does

1030
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:30,040
Speaker 2: seem like he's making the most of his fifteen minutes

1031
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 2: of fame. He gets interviewed by CNN. The AT and

1032
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:36,359
Speaker 2: T's publicity team basically works up an appearance and makes

1033
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:38,640
Speaker 2: him wear a company shirt because he'd been a security

1034
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:42,160
Speaker 2: guard for AT and T. I guess because AT and

1035
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:45,600
Speaker 2: T wanted Americans to associate their favorite phone company with

1036
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:49,239
Speaker 2: a terroristic bombing that killed and named people. I don't

1037
00:51:49,239 --> 00:51:51,560
Speaker 2: know why. It's a weird call at and D.

1038
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:53,400
Speaker 3: That is weird.

1039
00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:59,359
Speaker 2: Marriott for sure, Yeah, that would make sense. Richard would

1040
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:02,040
Speaker 2: later claim the idea of going on TV made me nervous.

1041
00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:03,799
Speaker 2: I was not the hero. There were so many others

1042
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:08,400
Speaker 2: who saved lives, and perhaps the FBI would have concluded

1043
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:12,160
Speaker 2: its investigation without Jewel catching on. Right again, some degree

1044
00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:15,200
Speaker 2: of looking into this guy is reasonable, but given what

1045
00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:19,120
Speaker 2: happens next here, that winds up being impossible. And the

1046
00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:21,520
Speaker 2: reason why there's no chance to keep this under wraps,

1047
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:24,279
Speaker 2: and the reason why everything blows up and Jewel's life

1048
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:27,719
Speaker 2: blows up is that the Atlanta Journal Constitution, which is

1049
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:31,440
Speaker 2: a local paper of record in Atlanta, publishes an article

1050
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:33,840
Speaker 2: on July thirtieth in which they announced that the FBI

1051
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:38,960
Speaker 2: had a suspect for the bombing security guard Richard Jewel. Now,

1052
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:42,440
Speaker 2: the Journal was owned by Cox Newspapers, who had flown

1053
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:44,799
Speaker 2: something like three hundred people in from other papers to

1054
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:47,759
Speaker 2: report out of the Journal's office. They had like sent

1055
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:50,600
Speaker 2: reporters around, flown them all around the world to like

1056
00:52:50,680 --> 00:52:53,439
Speaker 2: study up on different sports that they could report well

1057
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:55,880
Speaker 2: on the Olympics, because they're putting out a daily special

1058
00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:59,719
Speaker 2: Olympics edition and the expense they've spent millions preparing to

1059
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:02,120
Speaker 2: cover the Olympics. Right now, this is a time in

1060
00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:04,200
Speaker 2: which there's more money in the newspaper biz. But you

1061
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:06,800
Speaker 2: got to remember whenever you're investing that kind of capital

1062
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:09,839
Speaker 2: into an endeavor, you have to make a return, right.

1063
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:14,320
Speaker 2: And so the new editor of the paper, John Walter,

1064
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:17,799
Speaker 2: is expecting the fact that there's been a bombing that's

1065
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:21,120
Speaker 2: like a huge boon potentially to the media, right, Like,

1066
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:23,000
Speaker 2: this is something people are going to read about. And

1067
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:25,480
Speaker 2: we're the paper of record for Atlanta. We've got to

1068
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 2: be the ones breaking the scoops. We can't get scooped

1069
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:29,239
Speaker 2: by the big national papers. We can't let the New

1070
00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:32,080
Speaker 2: York Times take this from us, right, get something out

1071
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:35,440
Speaker 2: about this, you know. And the editor is this guy,

1072
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:39,600
Speaker 2: John Walter, who is he had replaced a more traditional

1073
00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:44,360
Speaker 2: ethical newsman. Walter is of this kind of generation of

1074
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:47,120
Speaker 2: guys who's trying to find more exciting and profitable ways

1075
00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:50,560
Speaker 2: to package news content as opposed to doing good journalism,

1076
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:54,120
Speaker 2: pro vanity fair quote more and more, the paper's influence

1077
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:57,120
Speaker 2: was on what John Walter called chunklets, short bits, and

1078
00:53:57,280 --> 00:54:00,840
Speaker 2: soft news style known as eye candy, published features on

1079
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:04,000
Speaker 2: couple's massage and how mushrooms grow in the rain. Walter

1080
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:06,319
Speaker 2: had fired off several terse memos to ensure that there

1081
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:08,399
Speaker 2: would be no more jumps of news stories to back

1082
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:11,960
Speaker 2: pages and no more unsourced news stories except on rare occasions.

1083
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:14,800
Speaker 2: I don't see any reason why you can't report hard

1084
00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:17,600
Speaker 2: news in a short form, one editor told me. The

1085
00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:21,240
Speaker 2: AJAC style of reporting and declarative sentences had a name too,

1086
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:24,120
Speaker 2: the Voice of God. It was omniscient because it allowed

1087
00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:27,759
Speaker 2: no references to unattributed sources. Subjects such as aids, which

1088
00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:31,680
Speaker 2: often required confidentiality, could not be covered properly in the paper.

1089
00:54:31,719 --> 00:54:34,560
Speaker 2: In the opinion of several reporters, the AJAC picked up

1090
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:37,280
Speaker 2: news stories with unnamed sources from the New York Times, however,

1091
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:41,160
Speaker 2: and reporters groused about the hypocrisy of the double standard. Now,

1092
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:43,480
Speaker 2: all this was going to cause problems because the journal

1093
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:47,680
Speaker 2: can't let themselves be scooped in their hometown, but they

1094
00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:50,600
Speaker 2: get reached out to They get basically a leak from

1095
00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:54,080
Speaker 2: the FBI, who leaks them documents that make it clear

1096
00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:57,000
Speaker 2: that Richard Jewel is their chief suspect, right. That's what

1097
00:54:57,120 --> 00:55:00,640
Speaker 2: happens is someone from the FBI talks to them. And

1098
00:55:00,680 --> 00:55:03,200
Speaker 2: this is a really ethically questionable thing because a person

1099
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:06,160
Speaker 2: who is suspected of a crime has not been charged

1100
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:09,840
Speaker 2: with it. They certainly haven't been convicted. Is it ethical

1101
00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:13,719
Speaker 2: at all to report that this guy is under suspicion

1102
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:17,359
Speaker 2: right now, because you're going to nuke his life and

1103
00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:20,120
Speaker 2: make a huge number of people think he murdered someone

1104
00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:23,080
Speaker 2: and tried to murder dozens more people. Right, But on

1105
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:26,440
Speaker 2: the other hand, it's going to sell papers, so obviously

1106
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:31,920
Speaker 2: print that shit, right And so General reporter Mary Scruggs

1107
00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:35,799
Speaker 2: writes an article titled FBI suspects hero guard may have

1108
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:39,440
Speaker 2: planted bomb, and again it uses this kind of voice

1109
00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:42,640
Speaker 2: of God phrasings to where like they did they had

1110
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:46,160
Speaker 2: a source that they couldn't admit that it had reached out

1111
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:49,440
Speaker 2: to them, But they don't say that, right, Like, they

1112
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:52,000
Speaker 2: don't address that at all. And I'm going to read

1113
00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:55,120
Speaker 2: a quote from the article. Richard Jewell, thirty three, a

1114
00:55:55,120 --> 00:55:57,480
Speaker 2: former law enforcement officer, I fits the profile of the

1115
00:55:57,520 --> 00:56:00,839
Speaker 2: lone bomber. This profile generally includes a frustrated white man

1116
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:03,440
Speaker 2: who is a former police officer, member of the military,

1117
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:05,759
Speaker 2: or police wannabe who seeks to become a hero.

1118
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:08,200
Speaker 3: That's so fucked up.

1119
00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:10,839
Speaker 2: That's so fucked up. Like, that's not even a that's

1120
00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:13,600
Speaker 2: not a real profile. That's not the lone bomber. How

1121
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:16,000
Speaker 2: many loan bombers have fit this profile?

1122
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:16,640
Speaker 4: Right?

1123
00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:20,359
Speaker 3: Also, yes, he's eager and like wants to be liked.

1124
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:24,160
Speaker 2: I mean that's I'm sorry. I don't think the standard

1125
00:56:24,239 --> 00:56:27,239
Speaker 2: Loane bomber is a wannabe cop who wants to be

1126
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:30,839
Speaker 2: a hero, in part because the guy who actually did

1127
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:34,000
Speaker 2: the bombings, who will talk about later, was an anti

1128
00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:38,480
Speaker 2: abortion activist who was bombing people because he thinks abortion's murder.

1129
00:56:38,719 --> 00:56:43,000
Speaker 2: He's a Christian extremist, supremacist, special Forces veteran, but.

1130
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:45,120
Speaker 1: Somehow doesn't think murder is murder.

1131
00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:48,239
Speaker 2: I think he's fine with murder. Oh, like they're all

1132
00:56:48,239 --> 00:56:51,440
Speaker 2: fine with murder, just not fine with women having choices.

1133
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:53,799
Speaker 2: We understand what this is about. We don't have to

1134
00:56:53,800 --> 00:56:55,840
Speaker 2: play around with their semantics games.

1135
00:56:56,719 --> 00:56:59,319
Speaker 4: There was definitely gonna be a manifesto though, that was

1136
00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:02,920
Speaker 4: really involved in this, and thank you. I was worried

1137
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:06,319
Speaker 4: that this was still unsolved, so I'm so no, no, no, they.

1138
00:57:06,200 --> 00:57:06,799
Speaker 1: Figured it out.

1139
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:09,759
Speaker 2: It gets solved as shit. Okay, I'm just bringing it

1140
00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:13,279
Speaker 2: up to point out, like their compl profile is completely wrong, right, yes,

1141
00:57:14,040 --> 00:57:15,759
Speaker 2: Now as to how this all happen, because we don't

1142
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:20,640
Speaker 2: exactly know how they got their source, It's very likely

1143
00:57:21,040 --> 00:57:23,480
Speaker 2: they get leaked by someone in the FBI, but I

1144
00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:25,920
Speaker 2: don't think that that's been proven to a point of certainty.

1145
00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:28,280
Speaker 2: The director of the FBI at this point was a

1146
00:57:28,360 --> 00:57:33,040
Speaker 2: toad named Lewis free fr e H. He came into

1147
00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:35,720
Speaker 2: the bombing prime to make bad decisions. One of his

1148
00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:39,880
Speaker 2: closest advisors was former Deputy director of the FBI Larry Potts,

1149
00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:43,800
Speaker 2: who tried to cover up FBI incompetence at Ruby Ridge three,

1150
00:57:43,840 --> 00:57:46,920
Speaker 2: made himself responsible for the oversight of the bureau's efforts

1151
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:48,560
Speaker 2: in this high profile case. He comes in and as

1152
00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:51,560
Speaker 2: immediately like I am, I am, like where the buck

1153
00:57:51,600 --> 00:57:55,560
Speaker 2: stops with this case. I'm directly overseeing this as director

1154
00:57:55,560 --> 00:57:59,600
Speaker 2: of the FBI, because this is like obviously, given everything

1155
00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:02,240
Speaker 2: that's happen, and nothing matters more than us quickly finding

1156
00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:07,000
Speaker 2: a culprit, right, and they don't, you know, initially there

1157
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:09,040
Speaker 2: had been like a suspect, a suspect who was like

1158
00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:10,880
Speaker 2: a drunk at a bar who the night before and

1159
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:13,960
Speaker 2: made some threatening comments. So he's their first suspect. But

1160
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:16,960
Speaker 2: it turns out he's got an alibi. And this happens

1161
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:19,840
Speaker 2: a couple of times, right where they'll find someone and

1162
00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:22,200
Speaker 2: he'll seem like it might this guy might have been

1163
00:58:22,200 --> 00:58:24,280
Speaker 2: the one who did it, and then it'll become clear

1164
00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:27,000
Speaker 2: that he could not have been the bomber, and Free

1165
00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:30,160
Speaker 2: flips out at his subordinates each time. He becomes, in

1166
00:58:30,200 --> 00:58:34,040
Speaker 2: their words, abusive, condescending, and dismissive every time they tell him, no,

1167
00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:36,720
Speaker 2: it couldn't have been that guy. And whenever they start

1168
00:58:36,760 --> 00:58:39,400
Speaker 2: to suspect a new person, Free will declare, we have

1169
00:58:39,560 --> 00:58:42,959
Speaker 2: our man. He does that every time. And so when

1170
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:45,000
Speaker 2: they settle on and they get this leak and they

1171
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:48,120
Speaker 2: start looking in to Richard Jewel, Free is like, we've

1172
00:58:48,120 --> 00:58:50,240
Speaker 2: got our guy. This is him, this has to be him.

1173
00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:54,440
Speaker 2: Make sure it's him, right, and that there is some

1174
00:58:54,480 --> 00:58:57,960
Speaker 2: evidence that suggests that Free orchestrated the leaking of information

1175
00:58:58,160 --> 00:59:01,040
Speaker 2: hours after the bombing. Right because he does this seems possible.

1176
00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:03,560
Speaker 2: We know he does this with the first time they

1177
00:59:03,560 --> 00:59:06,400
Speaker 2: have a suspect that drunk at the bar, like there's

1178
00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:09,200
Speaker 2: a leak, so the papers know the FBI's got someone,

1179
00:59:09,320 --> 00:59:11,439
Speaker 2: and then it's really embarrassing to him because that guy

1180
00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:13,600
Speaker 2: wound up not having done it right, So it's just

1181
00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:17,800
Speaker 2: very likely that he did the same thing with Jewel, Right, are.

1182
00:59:17,720 --> 00:59:24,560
Speaker 4: The Olympics like going on the whole Like, yeah, yet.

1183
00:59:22,600 --> 00:59:25,880
Speaker 2: Slow shit down a bit, but okay, it's more just

1184
00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:28,840
Speaker 2: a matter of there is this high profile bombing at

1185
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:32,560
Speaker 2: the Olympics. The FBI still hasn't caught the guy. The

1186
00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:34,800
Speaker 2: Oklahoma City bombing happened a year ago and they didn't

1187
00:59:34,840 --> 00:59:37,320
Speaker 2: stop that. It's just this like, we have to prove

1188
00:59:37,400 --> 00:59:39,800
Speaker 2: that we're worth all the money that the country spends

1189
00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:42,640
Speaker 2: on us, because it really doesn't look like it right now. Right,

1190
00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:45,840
Speaker 2: we're fucking we're taking a massive l in public and

1191
00:59:45,880 --> 00:59:50,360
Speaker 2: I can't accept that, you know. So, for their part,

1192
00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:54,560
Speaker 2: the journal avoids telling anyone how they got because it's

1193
00:59:54,560 --> 00:59:58,240
Speaker 2: like a memo that they get that that lists Jewel

1194
00:59:58,320 --> 01:00:01,760
Speaker 2: is the suspect, and they don't. Oh again, it's this

1195
01:00:01,800 --> 01:00:04,160
Speaker 2: whole voice of God thing. They give no attribution and

1196
01:00:04,200 --> 01:00:08,640
Speaker 2: they don't cite a source Atlanta Magazine describes their reporting

1197
01:00:08,680 --> 01:00:11,400
Speaker 2: as quote, leaving the reader to wonder whether the claims

1198
01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:14,040
Speaker 2: came from a legitimate law enforcement enforcement official or from

1199
01:00:14,040 --> 01:00:17,320
Speaker 2: a proclamation of God. It's this And I have so

1200
01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:20,440
Speaker 2: many issues with like the way a lot of media

1201
01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:22,440
Speaker 2: works with like objectivity in this book, and this is

1202
01:00:22,480 --> 01:00:24,200
Speaker 2: another example of that of like, no, this is the

1203
01:00:24,200 --> 01:00:25,600
Speaker 2: way our paper sounds.

1204
01:00:25,720 --> 01:00:25,880
Speaker 4: Right.

1205
01:00:26,280 --> 01:00:29,840
Speaker 2: We don't cite anonymous sources. We don't say that we've

1206
01:00:30,280 --> 01:00:33,480
Speaker 2: been leaked something because that would be kind of that

1207
01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:35,880
Speaker 2: would be breaking this voice of God that is so

1208
01:00:35,960 --> 01:00:38,400
Speaker 2: important to us. Otherwise people aren't going to trust the journal.

1209
01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:41,280
Speaker 2: And so what that does here is the FBI leaks

1210
01:00:41,280 --> 01:00:43,400
Speaker 2: to them instead of saying, yeah, the same guy who

1211
01:00:43,520 --> 01:00:45,720
Speaker 2: leaked to us, the same people who leak to us

1212
01:00:46,040 --> 01:00:50,560
Speaker 2: the name or a suspect who was exonerated have leaked

1213
01:00:50,600 --> 01:00:54,920
Speaker 2: again a suspect, but this guy one's totally it. Guys,

1214
01:00:55,040 --> 01:00:56,880
Speaker 2: but we're not going to tell you where it came from. Right,

1215
01:00:56,920 --> 01:01:00,320
Speaker 2: nobody's doing well here, you see it like it's the Meatia. Yeah,

1216
01:01:01,480 --> 01:01:04,439
Speaker 2: and particularly this one publication are being slimy as shit

1217
01:01:05,080 --> 01:01:08,240
Speaker 2: because it's good for business and because they've made a

1218
01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:12,200
Speaker 2: series of bad decisions editorially, and the FBI is just

1219
01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:14,320
Speaker 2: desperate to have to make it clear, No, we're doing

1220
01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:17,120
Speaker 2: our jobs, We're on the ball, you're safe, we know

1221
01:01:17,160 --> 01:01:18,560
Speaker 2: what we're doing. We know we fucked up and let

1222
01:01:18,560 --> 01:01:20,960
Speaker 2: a bombing happen, but you know it's really not our

1223
01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:23,000
Speaker 2: fault because it's probably the security guard. How could we

1224
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:23,320
Speaker 2: have known?

1225
01:01:23,360 --> 01:01:23,520
Speaker 4: You know?

1226
01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:25,440
Speaker 2: Right, Like that's that's what they're trying to do.

1227
01:01:25,600 --> 01:01:29,640
Speaker 4: It's like the headlines where it's like the people in

1228
01:01:29,720 --> 01:01:31,600
Speaker 4: Gaza were bombed, but it's like.

1229
01:01:31,640 --> 01:01:37,120
Speaker 3: By who exactly? Yeah right, yeah, I don't mean to

1230
01:01:37,120 --> 01:01:39,240
Speaker 3: bring down the vibe.

1231
01:01:39,040 --> 01:01:41,680
Speaker 2: No, no, no, but like it is this all of

1232
01:01:41,680 --> 01:01:45,320
Speaker 2: these are like continuing problems for a lot of legacy media,

1233
01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:50,560
Speaker 2: right like this, like the the paper's brand and reputation

1234
01:01:52,360 --> 01:01:55,200
Speaker 2: is what matters more than like making sure that we're

1235
01:01:55,520 --> 01:01:59,160
Speaker 2: doing things ethically, and obviously traffic money, make sure that

1236
01:01:59,400 --> 01:02:01,840
Speaker 2: makes me more than making sure we're doing things ethically. Right,

1237
01:02:02,120 --> 01:02:05,280
Speaker 2: these these articles will sell, People will buy our paper

1238
01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:08,360
Speaker 2: if we're covering this case. So let's just if that

1239
01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:12,520
Speaker 2: means destroying Richard Jewel's life, fuck him. Right, So you've

1240
01:02:12,520 --> 01:02:15,680
Speaker 2: gotten the FBI, you've got the director pressuring every lead

1241
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:20,880
Speaker 2: to be the guy, and Jewel, you know, seems like

1242
01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:25,840
Speaker 2: their best bet. So that article drops on the thirtieth,

1243
01:02:26,720 --> 01:02:29,640
Speaker 2: the same day that two FBI agents show up at

1244
01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:32,040
Speaker 2: Richard Jewel's house and ask him if he wants to

1245
01:02:32,080 --> 01:02:34,280
Speaker 2: make a training film for them, So he doesn't actually

1246
01:02:34,320 --> 01:02:36,800
Speaker 2: get to see this article that the journal's published saying

1247
01:02:36,800 --> 01:02:39,880
Speaker 2: that he's the FBI's main suspect. But on the same

1248
01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:41,680
Speaker 2: day they show up early at his house and like, Hey,

1249
01:02:42,080 --> 01:02:44,480
Speaker 2: you did such a good job. Would you make a

1250
01:02:44,520 --> 01:02:48,720
Speaker 2: training video for us about how spotted the bomb? Yeah,

1251
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:51,840
Speaker 2: why don't you come in the station? And because we

1252
01:02:51,960 --> 01:02:54,560
Speaker 2: just we're such big fancy maybe you've got a career

1253
01:02:54,600 --> 01:02:59,040
Speaker 2: in the bureau Richard, right, Obviously there's no training film.

1254
01:02:59,240 --> 01:03:01,400
Speaker 2: They want to in to review him, to see if

1255
01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:04,560
Speaker 2: he will slip up or be inconsistent or lie under

1256
01:03:04,560 --> 01:03:07,400
Speaker 2: the guise of recording his wisdom as a training video

1257
01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:10,480
Speaker 2: for new agents. Jewell started to realize something was up

1258
01:03:10,520 --> 01:03:13,280
Speaker 2: when his car was tailed by four other FBI cars

1259
01:03:13,280 --> 01:03:14,920
Speaker 2: on the way to the office and they're like, oh, yeah,

1260
01:03:14,920 --> 01:03:16,520
Speaker 2: I don't worry about it, it's fine, and he's like,

1261
01:03:16,560 --> 01:03:19,840
Speaker 2: that seems weird. I feel like you don't need four

1262
01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:21,840
Speaker 2: or five cars to take a guy to do a

1263
01:03:21,880 --> 01:03:26,120
Speaker 2: fucking interview. And then they end the interview this this

1264
01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:29,200
Speaker 2: training video, by asking him to sign a waiver of

1265
01:03:29,200 --> 01:03:32,960
Speaker 2: his rights, and then he's like, wait a second, that's

1266
01:03:33,320 --> 01:03:36,440
Speaker 2: no Actually, I think I want a lawyer now, And

1267
01:03:36,520 --> 01:03:38,600
Speaker 2: as soon as he does that, they pull the standard

1268
01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:40,640
Speaker 2: cop Why do you need a lawyer, Richard? You didn't

1269
01:03:40,640 --> 01:03:41,720
Speaker 2: do anything right.

1270
01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:45,439
Speaker 3: You know, Like, oh my fucking guy, he's just.

1271
01:03:45,360 --> 01:03:48,560
Speaker 2: So shitty, and this is he's this guy. It takes

1272
01:03:48,640 --> 01:03:50,880
Speaker 2: him so long to realize what's happening because he trusts

1273
01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:54,800
Speaker 2: the system, he trusts cops, he likes, He idolizes these feds,

1274
01:03:55,360 --> 01:03:58,560
Speaker 2: and I'm actually surprised that he even got it then.

1275
01:03:58,600 --> 01:04:01,600
Speaker 2: But you have to imagine the dawn horror as he realizes, like,

1276
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:04,600
Speaker 2: oh my god, they were lying to me about all

1277
01:04:04,640 --> 01:04:07,480
Speaker 2: of this. They think I did it, and they want

1278
01:04:07,640 --> 01:04:12,560
Speaker 2: they're trying to trap me, Like it's it's it's pretty

1279
01:04:12,560 --> 01:04:14,800
Speaker 2: fucked up. Like I don't have a lot of inherent

1280
01:04:14,840 --> 01:04:17,280
Speaker 2: sympathy for the whole desperately wanting to be a cop thing,

1281
01:04:17,280 --> 01:04:18,760
Speaker 2: but you have to be sympathetic to a guy like

1282
01:04:18,800 --> 01:04:21,720
Speaker 2: Jewel who believes so strongly in this just saves a

1283
01:04:21,720 --> 01:04:25,000
Speaker 2: bunch of lives. And then his reward is this system

1284
01:04:25,040 --> 01:04:28,440
Speaker 2: he idolizes, absolutely turning on him.

1285
01:04:28,520 --> 01:04:29,720
Speaker 3: How long does this go on?

1286
01:04:29,840 --> 01:04:32,000
Speaker 2: For about three months?

1287
01:04:32,480 --> 01:04:32,840
Speaker 4: Oh my?

1288
01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:36,240
Speaker 2: So for three months Jewel's life is turned upside down.

1289
01:04:36,400 --> 01:04:39,600
Speaker 2: FBI agents stake out his house. His house is searched,

1290
01:04:40,160 --> 01:04:44,080
Speaker 2: Everything related to him is searched. Right like they tear

1291
01:04:44,240 --> 01:04:46,760
Speaker 2: up his home. They tear up like they're searching the

1292
01:04:46,800 --> 01:04:48,560
Speaker 2: houses of people who are like close to him.

1293
01:04:48,640 --> 01:04:50,800
Speaker 3: Embarrassing porn came up, right.

1294
01:04:50,920 --> 01:04:55,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, he can't go anywhere without being surrounded. He becomes

1295
01:04:55,480 --> 01:04:58,520
Speaker 2: an object of obsession for reporters at the Journal. Not

1296
01:04:58,560 --> 01:05:01,240
Speaker 2: only is the FBI always outside of his house, dozens and

1297
01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:04,680
Speaker 2: dozens of journalists and cameras. They're always staking out his house,

1298
01:05:04,720 --> 01:05:07,040
Speaker 2: waiting for him to leave, waiting for any chance to

1299
01:05:07,120 --> 01:05:11,280
Speaker 2: shout questions at him, and the journal but turns themselves

1300
01:05:11,280 --> 01:05:14,280
Speaker 2: into the paper of Richard Jewel. They are publishing multiple

1301
01:05:14,400 --> 01:05:18,480
Speaker 2: articles a day about this one guy. On August first,

1302
01:05:18,560 --> 01:05:23,040
Speaker 2: so that's the day after he has his That first

1303
01:05:23,120 --> 01:05:24,840
Speaker 2: article drops in the day after he goes to the

1304
01:05:24,920 --> 01:05:28,320
Speaker 2: FBI office on August first, the same day he's rated

1305
01:05:28,320 --> 01:05:31,800
Speaker 2: by the FBI. The journal publishes a piece on Richard

1306
01:05:31,920 --> 01:05:35,360
Speaker 2: Jewel's history as a campus cop titled a bad Man

1307
01:05:35,520 --> 01:05:39,800
Speaker 2: to Cross on the Beat. Here's Atlanta Magazine. Students were

1308
01:05:39,840 --> 01:05:42,040
Speaker 2: also quoted as saying that Jewel went to extremes. He

1309
01:05:42,080 --> 01:05:44,520
Speaker 2: was very macho, and he could get very belligerate. Piedmont

1310
01:05:44,520 --> 01:05:46,840
Speaker 2: College junior Nikki Lane said, I've seen him go from

1311
01:05:46,880 --> 01:05:48,920
Speaker 2: calm to angry, back to calm, back to angry in

1312
01:05:48,960 --> 01:05:52,480
Speaker 2: a matter of seconds. And like, I get that he's

1313
01:05:52,520 --> 01:05:54,280
Speaker 2: a dick and he like tried to bust people for

1314
01:05:54,360 --> 01:05:58,760
Speaker 2: smoking pot, But like that doesn't that doesn't mean he's

1315
01:05:58,760 --> 01:06:00,960
Speaker 2: a bomber, Like you're going in fact, like he was

1316
01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:03,160
Speaker 2: a bad man to cross. He tried to arrest a

1317
01:06:03,240 --> 01:06:06,760
Speaker 2: kid for weed. That's pretty far from pipe bomb.

1318
01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:10,800
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, Jesus Christ.

1319
01:06:11,640 --> 01:06:14,960
Speaker 2: Another paragraph from that article with Atlanta Magazine gives you

1320
01:06:15,000 --> 01:06:17,280
Speaker 2: a good idea of how insane the coverage win. This

1321
01:06:17,320 --> 01:06:21,800
Speaker 2: is all AJC AJC columnist David Kindred, in his second

1322
01:06:21,800 --> 01:06:24,480
Speaker 2: column on Jewel in Two Days, compared the scene to

1323
01:06:24,520 --> 01:06:27,760
Speaker 2: the time law enforcement officers sought evidence against Wayne Williams,

1324
01:06:27,840 --> 01:06:30,880
Speaker 2: the man convicted of two murders in Atlanta's Missing Children case.

1325
01:06:30,920 --> 01:06:33,360
Speaker 2: When federal agents came to this town to deal with

1326
01:06:33,360 --> 01:06:35,760
Speaker 2: another suspect who lived with his mother like this one.

1327
01:06:35,800 --> 01:06:38,120
Speaker 2: That subject was drawn to the blue lights and sirens

1328
01:06:38,120 --> 01:06:40,560
Speaker 2: of police work like this one. He became famous in

1329
01:06:40,600 --> 01:06:45,480
Speaker 2: the aftermath of murder and like, yeah, it's just it's

1330
01:06:45,520 --> 01:06:48,640
Speaker 2: the yellowest journalism you could possibly do. Like they are,

1331
01:06:48,680 --> 01:06:51,240
Speaker 2: they are basically they're turning their whole paper into this guy,

1332
01:06:51,480 --> 01:06:54,880
Speaker 2: like in his life is just hell. For three straight months,

1333
01:06:55,400 --> 01:06:59,080
Speaker 2: every day there's articles not just in the AJAC but

1334
01:06:59,160 --> 01:07:02,960
Speaker 2: in national pape Popers digging into his backstory, talking about

1335
01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:05,440
Speaker 2: every embarrassing thing he ever did, talking to everyone who

1336
01:07:05,520 --> 01:07:08,480
Speaker 2: worked with him, who didn't like him. The whole country

1337
01:07:08,560 --> 01:07:13,120
Speaker 2: reviles him. He is a subject of mockery and costs.

1338
01:07:13,120 --> 01:07:15,640
Speaker 2: On The Tonight Joe Jay Leno gives him a nickname,

1339
01:07:15,720 --> 01:07:20,320
Speaker 2: The Una dufis right again, this man's crime was saving

1340
01:07:20,360 --> 01:07:23,600
Speaker 2: a bunch of people's lives from a bomb, like the

1341
01:07:23,840 --> 01:07:27,920
Speaker 2: und this the unidufis like Per The New York Times,

1342
01:07:28,040 --> 01:07:31,400
Speaker 2: government officials and news organizations descended on the apartment Jewel

1343
01:07:31,400 --> 01:07:34,080
Speaker 2: shared with his mother. Dozens of FBI agents scoured the

1344
01:07:34,080 --> 01:07:37,240
Speaker 2: home and totaway jewels truck in an apartment complex overlooking

1345
01:07:37,240 --> 01:07:41,240
Speaker 2: his building. Four stations ABC, CBSCN AND and NBC paid a

1346
01:07:41,320 --> 01:07:43,480
Speaker 2: tenant one thousand dollars a day to set up a

1347
01:07:43,480 --> 01:07:47,000
Speaker 2: command post in her unit. Yet he was never charged.

1348
01:07:47,280 --> 01:07:50,560
Speaker 2: Inside jewel Watch TV, he read, he played video games.

1349
01:07:50,560 --> 01:07:53,200
Speaker 2: He couldn't go outside, not without setting off a high

1350
01:07:53,200 --> 01:07:56,040
Speaker 2: speed car chase if government vehicles and media vans anyway,

1351
01:07:57,120 --> 01:08:01,680
Speaker 2: And that's just so fucked up, Like he did nothing.

1352
01:08:02,400 --> 01:08:05,280
Speaker 2: You didn't do that that he saved people's lives and

1353
01:08:05,400 --> 01:08:06,880
Speaker 2: everyone in the country hates him.

1354
01:08:06,880 --> 01:08:10,360
Speaker 4: Now I feel kind of conflicted because you know, like

1355
01:08:10,440 --> 01:08:16,120
Speaker 4: that murder in Washington who killed those four college girls.

1356
01:08:16,120 --> 01:08:18,800
Speaker 2: God, yeah, yeah, yeah, Colburger.

1357
01:08:18,280 --> 01:08:23,120
Speaker 1: Right his name, so the Idaho guy.

1358
01:08:24,040 --> 01:08:25,040
Speaker 3: Oh yeah it was Idaho.

1359
01:08:25,200 --> 01:08:25,639
Speaker 4: You're right.

1360
01:08:27,080 --> 01:08:30,040
Speaker 3: But like they're doing these things.

1361
01:08:29,760 --> 01:08:32,120
Speaker 4: You know, like I read articles where it was like

1362
01:08:32,280 --> 01:08:34,799
Speaker 4: a teaching assistant that was like, yeah, he was creepy

1363
01:08:34,800 --> 01:08:37,880
Speaker 4: as fuck, and in his case, I think that's correct,

1364
01:08:37,960 --> 01:08:42,040
Speaker 4: but like, yes, all those tactics turned on an innocent person.

1365
01:08:42,800 --> 01:08:45,840
Speaker 2: That's horrible, and that's the thing and you don't have

1366
01:08:46,400 --> 01:08:50,360
Speaker 2: and I I never like it when they do this

1367
01:08:50,479 --> 01:08:53,559
Speaker 2: with someone who hasn't again, at least Coburger. I think

1368
01:08:53,560 --> 01:08:55,959
Speaker 2: by the point most that came out had been charged

1369
01:08:56,280 --> 01:09:00,000
Speaker 2: and arrested. You have to remember Jewel has not been charged.

1370
01:09:00,160 --> 01:09:03,760
Speaker 2: She he's never charged, right, And it's one thing, and

1371
01:09:03,800 --> 01:09:05,640
Speaker 2: we can there is I still have a lot of

1372
01:09:05,680 --> 01:09:07,920
Speaker 2: issues with reporting on people who have been charged with

1373
01:09:08,000 --> 01:09:10,559
Speaker 2: crimes like this in the breathless way the media does

1374
01:09:10,600 --> 01:09:13,120
Speaker 2: when they have not been convicted, have not had their

1375
01:09:13,160 --> 01:09:15,519
Speaker 2: day in court, because they're still legally innocent. But this

1376
01:09:15,560 --> 01:09:17,439
Speaker 2: guy hasn't even been charged with shit, you shouldn't be

1377
01:09:17,479 --> 01:09:20,599
Speaker 2: doing this at all when someone's just a suspect like

1378
01:09:20,640 --> 01:09:25,839
Speaker 2: that is so that is so that such fucking malpractice. Yeah, agreed,

1379
01:09:26,280 --> 01:09:31,639
Speaker 2: it's just really vile. On October twenty seventh, prosecutors send

1380
01:09:31,640 --> 01:09:34,640
Speaker 2: a letter to Jeles lawyer, not to Jewel, not to

1381
01:09:34,680 --> 01:09:36,960
Speaker 2: the public. They just send his lawyer your letter saying, hey,

1382
01:09:37,000 --> 01:09:39,800
Speaker 2: he's not a suspect anymore. By the way, we're done.

1383
01:09:40,400 --> 01:09:42,040
Speaker 3: No, sorry, Yeah.

1384
01:09:41,840 --> 01:09:44,880
Speaker 2: The FBI makes eventually they give kind of like a

1385
01:09:44,920 --> 01:09:49,200
Speaker 2: half hearted apology. They admit some wrongdoing, right, but they

1386
01:09:49,280 --> 01:09:51,559
Speaker 2: don't they take no effort to be like, again, the

1387
01:09:51,600 --> 01:09:53,320
Speaker 2: responsible thing to do would be like oh shit, we

1388
01:09:53,360 --> 01:09:54,800
Speaker 2: really got it. We got to do a full court

1389
01:09:54,840 --> 01:09:57,960
Speaker 2: media press so let people know this guy is not suspected.

1390
01:09:58,240 --> 01:10:00,880
Speaker 2: They're just like fuck itt, they'll figure it out.

1391
01:10:01,000 --> 01:10:04,440
Speaker 3: They're like mean girls in high school. Yeah, terrorists.

1392
01:10:05,640 --> 01:10:08,920
Speaker 2: Now Jewel does sue them, He wins, sues the Justice Department,

1393
01:10:08,960 --> 01:10:11,040
Speaker 2: He wins a bunch of money. He sues several papers,

1394
01:10:11,080 --> 01:10:13,479
Speaker 2: including the AJAC, and he settles out of court. He

1395
01:10:13,520 --> 01:10:16,519
Speaker 2: does well off of this, right like he does like

1396
01:10:16,680 --> 01:10:19,439
Speaker 2: and you know, he lives out his life and I'm

1397
01:10:19,479 --> 01:10:21,519
Speaker 2: not gonna talk about the rest of his life because

1398
01:10:21,520 --> 01:10:24,719
Speaker 2: the man deserves fucking privacy after that. But he, uh,

1399
01:10:24,760 --> 01:10:28,760
Speaker 2: he does get some degree of vengeance for what they do.

1400
01:10:28,800 --> 01:10:31,599
Speaker 2: But like, man, you have the trauma of of this,

1401
01:10:31,800 --> 01:10:34,880
Speaker 2: like because who can imagine unless you have been unless

1402
01:10:34,880 --> 01:10:37,599
Speaker 2: the entire country has suspected you of being a mass

1403
01:10:37,680 --> 01:10:41,080
Speaker 2: murdering terrorist for three or four months, Like, you can't

1404
01:10:41,120 --> 01:10:43,400
Speaker 2: know what that's like, you know what kind of damage

1405
01:10:43,439 --> 01:10:43,880
Speaker 2: that does do?

1406
01:10:44,080 --> 01:10:47,040
Speaker 1: And then and then Clint Eastwood made that fucking movie.

1407
01:10:47,280 --> 01:10:52,320
Speaker 2: And then yes, Clint Eastwood, so fairly recently Clint Eastwood

1408
01:10:52,360 --> 01:10:55,000
Speaker 2: made a movie about.

1409
01:10:54,560 --> 01:10:56,439
Speaker 3: This literally called Richard Jewel.

1410
01:10:57,160 --> 01:11:02,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's called Richard Jewel. Clint makes a movie in

1411
01:11:02,600 --> 01:11:07,320
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen about this whole case, right, because, I mean,

1412
01:11:07,680 --> 01:11:12,120
Speaker 2: conservatives are like this story because they hate the media,

1413
01:11:12,200 --> 01:11:14,200
Speaker 2: and this is a great example of the media being

1414
01:11:14,320 --> 01:11:17,320
Speaker 2: just as bad as they like to act, like it

1415
01:11:17,360 --> 01:11:17,920
Speaker 2: always is.

1416
01:11:18,680 --> 01:11:18,760
Speaker 4: Now.

1417
01:11:18,800 --> 01:11:20,320
Speaker 2: They didn't go to the media, didn't go after Jewel

1418
01:11:20,320 --> 01:11:22,519
Speaker 2: because he was a conservative. They went after Jewel because

1419
01:11:22,560 --> 01:11:26,920
Speaker 2: the FBI sent them on his case. And yeah, they

1420
01:11:26,920 --> 01:11:32,240
Speaker 2: were feckless and only cared about money. But Clint's what's

1421
01:11:32,280 --> 01:11:34,400
Speaker 2: really interesting to me about Clint's movie is that it

1422
01:11:34,479 --> 01:11:37,320
Speaker 2: does kind of the same thing to one of the

1423
01:11:37,400 --> 01:11:41,519
Speaker 2: journalists at the Atlanta Journal Constitution that they had done

1424
01:11:41,520 --> 01:11:44,840
Speaker 2: to Richard Jewel, which is like defame him or her.

1425
01:11:46,080 --> 01:11:51,040
Speaker 2: So the author of the first article that listed him

1426
01:11:51,080 --> 01:11:54,680
Speaker 2: as the suspect was written by Kathy Scruggs. She's the

1427
01:11:54,720 --> 01:11:57,479
Speaker 2: reporter who did this, and as far as we know,

1428
01:11:57,600 --> 01:12:00,280
Speaker 2: she just got it or she and the I think

1429
01:12:00,400 --> 01:12:02,559
Speaker 2: she worked with a colleague, got like a tip that

1430
01:12:03,160 --> 01:12:07,320
Speaker 2: probably traced back to an FBI person who had been

1431
01:12:07,360 --> 01:12:10,160
Speaker 2: directed by Free to put the tip out there. Right,

1432
01:12:10,200 --> 01:12:15,080
Speaker 2: That's probably what happened. In the film. Kathy Scruggs is

1433
01:12:15,120 --> 01:12:18,280
Speaker 2: shown as going up to an FBI agent at a

1434
01:12:18,320 --> 01:12:21,679
Speaker 2: bar a couple of days after the bombing and saying,

1435
01:12:21,760 --> 01:12:24,920
Speaker 2: give me something I can print. She's played by Olivia Wilde.

1436
01:12:25,000 --> 01:12:27,880
Speaker 2: By the way, the FBI agent played by John Ham

1437
01:12:28,080 --> 01:12:30,640
Speaker 2: says basically, I'll give you the name if you fuck me,

1438
01:12:31,320 --> 01:12:35,800
Speaker 2: and so yeah, she starts like touching him, and he

1439
01:12:36,080 --> 01:12:39,960
Speaker 2: says Richard Jewel, right, and then they go fuck right.

1440
01:12:41,720 --> 01:12:45,240
Speaker 2: So basically it shows Kathy Scruggs, a real woman has

1441
01:12:45,280 --> 01:12:48,519
Speaker 2: played by Olivia Wilde, sleeping with a source in order

1442
01:12:48,560 --> 01:12:51,559
Speaker 2: to get Richard Jewele's name, which is not what happened.

1443
01:12:51,600 --> 01:12:54,360
Speaker 2: No one's ever alleged that being what happened. That was

1444
01:12:54,400 --> 01:12:57,880
Speaker 2: invented by our old friend Clint Eastwood or whoever wrote

1445
01:12:57,880 --> 01:13:01,080
Speaker 2: the fucking movie, just because the the story didn't seem

1446
01:13:01,080 --> 01:13:04,120
Speaker 2: bad enough as it was, and because I guess if

1447
01:13:04,120 --> 01:13:05,920
Speaker 2: you talk about what actually happened, then you have to

1448
01:13:05,920 --> 01:13:08,920
Speaker 2: be deeply critical about the FBI because this is ultimately

1449
01:13:09,000 --> 01:13:11,840
Speaker 2: their fault as much as anything else, and fundamentally the

1450
01:13:11,880 --> 01:13:15,120
Speaker 2: profit motive in journalism, right, Like, both of those things

1451
01:13:15,160 --> 01:13:18,320
Speaker 2: are the bastards here. But Clint's not interested in that.

1452
01:13:18,720 --> 01:13:19,840
Speaker 3: Let's make it a woman.

1453
01:13:20,240 --> 01:13:22,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a woman. It's this woman who couldn't keep

1454
01:13:22,920 --> 01:13:24,880
Speaker 2: it in her parts.

1455
01:13:25,080 --> 01:13:28,000
Speaker 3: Slutty journalists ruining the world.

1456
01:13:28,479 --> 01:13:31,720
Speaker 2: Classic bloody journalists sleeping with the FBI to get a name.

1457
01:13:32,000 --> 01:13:34,120
Speaker 1: Oh s, floody journalists my favorite kind.

1458
01:13:37,840 --> 01:13:41,759
Speaker 2: Yeah. Anyway, that's the first part of these this story.

1459
01:13:41,840 --> 01:13:46,320
Speaker 2: You know, we'll be talking about Steve Hatville and the

1460
01:13:46,720 --> 01:13:51,280
Speaker 2: anthrax attacks next episode. But yeah, how are you feeling?

1461
01:13:52,600 --> 01:13:53,120
Speaker 2: You're happy?

1462
01:13:53,520 --> 01:13:55,559
Speaker 3: I've totally forgot about this Steve guy.

1463
01:13:56,320 --> 01:13:58,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, I know. It's wild. We haven't even

1464
01:13:58,520 --> 01:14:01,840
Speaker 2: gotten to him yet. But this story is like the precursor.

1465
01:14:02,000 --> 01:14:04,200
Speaker 2: Oh yes, oh yes, go out kind of.

1466
01:14:04,200 --> 01:14:07,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, all right, I feel like we just went on

1467
01:14:07,000 --> 01:14:07,880
Speaker 4: a wild ride.

1468
01:14:08,000 --> 01:14:09,880
Speaker 3: I'm ready for the next part.

1469
01:14:10,120 --> 01:14:13,920
Speaker 2: Who excellent, Well, we'll get to that on Thursday.

1470
01:14:14,000 --> 01:14:16,040
Speaker 1: Do you want to plug your pluggables one more time

1471
01:14:16,040 --> 01:14:17,360
Speaker 1: for everybody?

1472
01:14:17,560 --> 01:14:21,280
Speaker 4: Yeah? Uh, I just my book, you guys. Maybe check

1473
01:14:21,280 --> 01:14:24,000
Speaker 4: out my book. It's called Girl Gone Wild. I tell

1474
01:14:24,040 --> 01:14:27,880
Speaker 4: all my secrets of the last decades that I've been

1475
01:14:27,920 --> 01:14:28,639
Speaker 4: on this planet.

1476
01:14:28,840 --> 01:14:31,200
Speaker 3: So it's available for pre order.

1477
01:14:32,080 --> 01:14:36,960
Speaker 2: Heck yeah, check that book out. And uh, yeah, you know,

1478
01:14:37,320 --> 01:14:39,440
Speaker 2: go don't go to the Olympics.

1479
01:14:40,160 --> 01:14:40,960
Speaker 3: Watch it at home.

1480
01:14:41,400 --> 01:14:48,639
Speaker 2: Safer Yeah, or steal it off of the Internet. Either way, they.

1481
01:14:52,560 --> 01:14:55,280
Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

1482
01:14:55,640 --> 01:14:58,240
Speaker 1: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool

1483
01:14:58,320 --> 01:15:02,280
Speaker 1: Zonemedia dot com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1484
01:15:02,360 --> 01:15:05,519
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Behind the

1485
01:15:05,520 --> 01:15:09,600
Speaker 1: Bastards is now available on YouTube, new episodes every Wednesday

1486
01:15:09,680 --> 01:15:13,360
Speaker 1: and Friday. Subscribe to our channel YouTube dot com slash

1487
01:15:13,560 --> 01:15:15,040
Speaker 1: at Behind the Bastards