Speaker 1: Hello Sunshine.
Speaker 2: Hey fam Today on the bright Side, we're back with
Speaker 2: another edition of Asking for a Friend. Calling this Alexandra
Speaker 2: Hayes Robinson aka Hello Hayes is here to tell us
Speaker 2: all about the six different types of besties. It's Thursday,
Speaker 2: May twenty third.
Speaker 1: I'm Simone Boyce, I'm Danielle Robe and this is the
Speaker 1: bright Side from Hello Sunshine. Danielle.
Speaker 2: I am dying to hear about this peoplehood class that
Speaker 2: you took.
Speaker 1: What does yet entail exactly? So? I took a listening
Speaker 1: class and it was fabulous. I did not know what
Speaker 1: to expect. Here's a little background. So I interviewed Julie Rice,
Speaker 1: who is one of the co founders of soul Cycle
Speaker 1: on my podcast Pretty Smart, and I interviewed her because
Speaker 1: I have an obsession with questions and connection and this
Speaker 1: felt like a perfect fit. She is obsessed with listening,
Speaker 1: so obviously soul Cycle was physical health.
Speaker 2: This is totally different. Okay, I have lots of questions.
Speaker 2: You're already a great listener, So did you learn anything new?
Speaker 1: So I love that you said that because I thought, hmm,
Speaker 1: I know how to listen. I can't imagine what I'll
Speaker 1: learn in this class like it'll just be fun practice.
Speaker 1: I learned a ton I went in. It was like
Speaker 1: a group of eight people, and actually it was a
Speaker 1: very sort of truncated version of group therapy. And they
Speaker 1: give you prompts. So you're asked a question and then
Speaker 1: you split up into pairs and you are required to
Speaker 1: listen to somebody free talk for two minutes and repeat
Speaker 1: back to them exactly what they said. It is very
Speaker 1: hard to repeat all the details of what somebody said
Speaker 1: back to them. And you're realizing, even though you listened,
Speaker 1: did you really listen to what they were saying, or
Speaker 1: were you kind of looking at their eyes or their
Speaker 1: hair or what you felt from their body language. I
Speaker 1: actually went a way feeling like I could be a
Speaker 1: deeper listener.
Speaker 2: What I'm hearing you say is exactly what I'm hearing
Speaker 2: you say. Is that repeating back what someone just said
Speaker 2: to you is a powerful exercise that we can all
Speaker 2: use in our daily communication.
Speaker 1: A Plus, you're a pro fantastic no notes.
Speaker 2: So what were people sharing during the portion that you
Speaker 2: had to listen to?
Speaker 1: I was so embarrassed I cried to a stranger. I
Speaker 1: think I was the only one who cried everyone else
Speaker 1: seemed to be fine. But you know it's funny, is
Speaker 1: I have this friend that we call each other probably
Speaker 1: twice a year. We don't ever see each other in person,
Speaker 1: and we call for about eight to ten minutes and
Speaker 1: each share our deepest, darkest secrets and say like, Okay,
Speaker 1: talk to you in six months. Because sometimes you cannot
Speaker 1: share the deepest parts of you with the people closest
Speaker 1: to you because they care too much. They're gonna want
Speaker 1: to solve. And so this class was like, you don't
Speaker 1: get to reply, you don't get to ask questions, you
Speaker 1: don't get to solve someone's problems. You just have to
Speaker 1: listen and witness them. And it's interesting when you feel
Speaker 1: witnessed by someone. It's almost an emotional experience. Like this
Speaker 1: guy who i'd never met and we'll probably never see again,
Speaker 1: was looking deep in my eyes, hearing me out for
Speaker 1: two minutes on something that I had been thinking about
Speaker 1: for years. It's new, it's different.
Speaker 2: It can be less intimidating because you don't know all
Speaker 2: of each other's history. It's almost for some reason, it's
Speaker 2: like easier to like start from scratch.
Speaker 1: Well, it's just about the moment they don't know anything
Speaker 1: about you. You don't know, like you don't carry anything
Speaker 1: in or away from it. You just are witnessing somebody. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I actually read an article about really listening to
Speaker 1: your partner, but in the bedroom. So the Washington Post
Speaker 1: published this piece about couples sleeping in separate bedrooms. It
Speaker 1: talks about why, how, if it's good or bad, and
Speaker 1: some have actually said it's better for their relationships. I've
Speaker 1: actually heard Carson Day talk about this on the Today
Speaker 1: Show a ton Simone. This is very personal, but you
Speaker 1: know I'm coming at you. Do you and Michael sleep
Speaker 1: in the same bed? We do sleep in the same
Speaker 1: bed always, yeah. Always.
Speaker 2: The only time that I sleep in the other room
Speaker 2: is if I have to wake up super early or
Speaker 2: something and I don't want to disturb him. I think
Speaker 2: there's still a huge stigma around sleeping in separate beds
Speaker 2: in marriage.
Speaker 1: My grandparents did it, and they were married for like
Speaker 1: fifty years. They were in the same room. They had
Speaker 1: like they were such a cliche. They had those twin
Speaker 1: beds in a small room. That's so cute, But it
Speaker 1: was because my grandfather snored. And I think that a
Speaker 1: lot of women have that issue. Yes, one percent. I've
Speaker 1: learned in marriage watching friends and family like absolutely to
Speaker 1: each their own. But you know that I want to
Speaker 1: crawl into somebody's skin, So I can't even fathom this.
Speaker 1: Like the whole point of having a partner to me
Speaker 1: is being so close. Like I definitely want to sleep
Speaker 1: in the same bed with you. I want to be
Speaker 1: inside your sweatshirt. Again.
Speaker 2: I have a clam feeling when I hear you speak
Speaker 2: like this, But I love that for you. I want
Speaker 2: that for you.
Speaker 1: I don't see anything wrong with this.
Speaker 2: If this is something that would make you happier, if
Speaker 2: you think that this is going to strengthen your relationship,
Speaker 2: I get it. I'm I think it also has to
Speaker 2: do with, like your upbringing. I was an only child
Speaker 2: for most of my life, so I'm hyper independent. So
Speaker 2: the idea of this sounds like pretty great to me, honestly.
Speaker 2: But okay, here's here's my proposition, Danielle. You have separate beds,
Speaker 2: but then there's an option to sleep together every now
Speaker 2: and then, just for the sake of connection.
Speaker 1: I'm sure that's an option for people like you get
Speaker 1: to do. That's a good middle ground, I guess. But
Speaker 1: you know, What's funny is sleep researchers tend to you
Speaker 1: separate bedrooms more positively than relationship therapists do. Oh so,
Speaker 1: the sleep researchers are like, yeah, it's good for you.
Speaker 1: The relationship therapists are like, yeah, not so sure.
Speaker 2: I'd love to unpack that more. I'm so curious about that.
Speaker 1: My next question for you is if you ever let
Speaker 1: your kids sleep in bed with you? Oh?
Speaker 2: Wow, We are pretty anti co sleeping in this house.
Speaker 2: We have been from day one. We have always believed
Speaker 2: in the power of sleep training, Like we sleep trained
Speaker 2: our kids when they were about six months old. And
Speaker 2: that's because I think it's better for the kids, and
Speaker 2: I think it's better for the parents in the marriage.
Speaker 1: That's just my opinion.
Speaker 2: I know people are going to come for me over
Speaker 2: this because people have very strong opinions about co sleeping.
Speaker 1: I have friends who their kids.
Speaker 2: Are like four years old and they still want to
Speaker 2: sleep in the bed with them, And I just think
Speaker 2: that over time, it just becomes a very hard habit
Speaker 2: to break, and it impacts your sleep. Sleep is so
Speaker 2: essential to mental health, wellness, being a great parent. So
Speaker 2: I think if you want to be your healthiest, you
Speaker 2: have to let your kids sleep in a separate bed.
Speaker 1: When I was growing up, we used to say that
Speaker 1: we had like, instead of musical chairs, we had musical beds.
Speaker 1: Like everyone was in a different bed every night. And
Speaker 1: wait what Yeah? Like when I was little, like I
Speaker 1: wanted to sleep with my mom and then my brother
Speaker 1: would be in my bed. It was like all over
Speaker 1: the place. Oh, but I'm not so sure it's good
Speaker 1: for a marriage. I'm with you. I think it's nice
Speaker 1: when two parents are like. I don't think i'll I
Speaker 1: don't have kids yet, but who knows. But I would
Speaker 1: hope to have an arrangement like yours.
Speaker 2: All that to say, on the nights when my kids
Speaker 2: do come into my bed if they've had a nightmare
Speaker 2: or something, I love it. But I think I appreciate
Speaker 2: it more because it doesn't always happen. It's kind of
Speaker 2: like a little treat that I get to sleep with
Speaker 2: them that night.
Speaker 1: That's so sweet.
Speaker 2: But I think that there needs to be less shame
Speaker 2: around these decisions. So everybody, do you do what's best
Speaker 2: for you.
Speaker 1: And your family? Do you boo?
Speaker 2: All?
Speaker 1: Right? Well? After the break, Hello, Hayes is here to
Speaker 1: tell us what to do when your friends aren't responding
Speaker 1: to you with the group chat that's up next.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to the bright Side, y'all and another edition
Speaker 2: of Asking for a Friend. This is our take on
Speaker 2: an advice column all about navigating the trickier parts of friendships. Listen,
Speaker 2: they're beautiful, they're complex, they bring us so much joy,
Speaker 2: and sometimes they just need a little special care and attention.
Speaker 1: Simone a men. And today we're joined by advice columnist
Speaker 1: Alexandra Hayes Robinson. And if you're chronically online, you might
Speaker 1: already know her as her pen name Hello Hayes. Her
Speaker 1: six Besties theory spoke to millions of people and really
Speaker 1: sparked a conversation about what friendships are for and the
Speaker 1: expectations that we place on them. So we asked her
Speaker 1: to come on the show and share her wisdom with
Speaker 1: all of us. Hayes, Welcome to the bright Side.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so happy
Speaker 3: to be here.
Speaker 1: The first thing I noticed is that you your demeanor
Speaker 1: was so bright. You are so bright side. I love
Speaker 1: that you can tell that right away.
Speaker 4: Is that like a gift of yours to read people's
Speaker 4: read people's energy, as they say.
Speaker 1: I'd like to think I'm a little witchy, but you
Speaker 1: just popped off the screen. We could tell.
Speaker 3: I'm so glad.
Speaker 1: Hayes.
Speaker 2: You've been a writer for years, but recently you found
Speaker 2: this incredible following is Hello Hayes, just walk us through
Speaker 2: your journey to get here.
Speaker 4: The story of starting Hello Hayes begins like the very
Speaker 4: the very first time I was aware of being a
Speaker 4: person with very big feelings, which probably is, you know,
Speaker 4: when I was very very young. I think that one
Speaker 4: of my natural gifts maybe is that I have a
Speaker 4: very rich inner world.
Speaker 1: I spend a lot of time in my head.
Speaker 4: I'm a naturally intuitive and introspective person, which has been
Speaker 4: really wonderful at lots of points in life. I can
Speaker 4: feel things like awe and compassion and really big ways,
Speaker 4: And of course it also comes with the other side
Speaker 4: of I feel painful things, really really big.
Speaker 3: And I remember.
Speaker 4: Growing up there were times that I thought my feelings
Speaker 4: were too big. And I think that something I'm trying
Speaker 4: to achieve with Hello Hayes is to make my readers
Speaker 4: listeners feel like no feeling of theirs is too big
Speaker 4: to be discussed. But I think I sort of followed
Speaker 4: that feeling driven work in high school. In college, I
Speaker 4: was always on an artist's track. I studied writing in school,
Speaker 4: and I was first a teacher. Being a middle school
Speaker 4: teacher was my first job outside of college, and I
Speaker 4: loved hanging out with kids and helping them and learning
Speaker 4: about their lives and connecting with them on a one
Speaker 4: on one basis. But I felt this hunger to like
Speaker 4: share my writing more, and I felt like I wanted
Speaker 4: to get into the break into the media world, and
Speaker 4: I ended up starting over and interning for a few years,
Speaker 4: doing everything from social media to blog articles. And I
Speaker 4: had this like Eureka moment just before I turned thirty,
Speaker 4: and this feeling of I've achieved everything I thought I
Speaker 4: wanted to achieve. I've been I've climbed a corporate ladder,
Speaker 4: I make good money, I have all of these things
Speaker 4: that should be making me happy, and yet I'm not.
Speaker 4: And starting Hello Hayes really did feel sort of like
Speaker 4: a last resort for me of am I going to
Speaker 4: be happy with the work I do?
Speaker 3: Am I going to find meaning with the work I
Speaker 3: do in the life I live? Or not? And I
Speaker 3: downloaded TikTok in December and started making videos about topics
Speaker 3: that interested me, which have always been feelings, relationships, hard stuff,
Speaker 3: and it took on a life of its own from there.
Speaker 1: Were you always the one giving advice in your friend group?
Speaker 2: Or is that how you kind of knew that this
Speaker 2: column had a lot of potential.
Speaker 1: I was always the listener in my friend group.
Speaker 4: People always confide in me, and people have always shared
Speaker 4: with me, like I just give off that whatever energy
Speaker 4: you were picking up on Danielle in the beginning. Maybe
Speaker 4: it's a similar thing. I don't necessarily give advice unless
Speaker 4: I'm being prompted to give it, and even now with
Speaker 4: Hello Hayes, I think my advice is much more introspective
Speaker 4: than it is instructional, and I think that is always
Speaker 4: That's always true about the advice I've given. I think
Speaker 4: the term advice we could interpret that so many ways.
Speaker 4: The advice I give and have always given is less
Speaker 4: like I think you should do X, Y and Z.
Speaker 4: It's probably more about helping the person I'm with trust
Speaker 4: themselves more and find the answers for themselves that are
Speaker 4: best for them, because you know what's best for me
Speaker 4: might not be best for you.
Speaker 1: How would you categorize the type of advice that you give.
Speaker 4: It's such a there's it's like, I have no good,
Speaker 4: clear answer for that.
Speaker 3: I cover.
Speaker 4: I talk about all sorts of relationships. Our relationship with others,
Speaker 4: which could include friends, partners, family members, and our relationship
Speaker 4: with ourselves, which could include things like self esteem confidence.
Speaker 4: When I first started, I thought I was going to
Speaker 4: spend more time talking about our relationship with work, because
Speaker 4: that's the relationship that has always consumed me and still
Speaker 4: consumes me. But people have not been so interested. I
Speaker 4: don't receive so many letters about that, so maybe I'm
Speaker 4: crazy by myself.
Speaker 2: Do you have any observations or thoughts as to why
Speaker 2: people come to you with friendship issues and relationship issues
Speaker 2: more than anything else.
Speaker 4: Somebody wrote me a letter once that wasn't asking for
Speaker 4: my advice, but she could sense from my content or
Speaker 4: from maybe the fact that I wasn't making content for
Speaker 4: a few days, that I was having a tough time,
Speaker 4: and she wrote me a very supportive letter, and in
Speaker 4: it she said that one of the things she loves
Speaker 4: about my work and appreciates about my work is that
Speaker 4: when people write to me with option A or option B,
Speaker 4: I help them see an option C. And I think
Speaker 4: that maybe that is what people are drawn to. The
Speaker 4: best advice I've been given in my life is when
Speaker 4: the advice does not just tactically tell me what to
Speaker 4: do right now, but it kind of unlocks a new
Speaker 4: way of thinking about something, and I can then remember
Speaker 4: that for all sorts of different situations. I try to
Speaker 4: do that with my work, and I think that's what
Speaker 4: speaks to people.
Speaker 1: I love an option ce. It's like the third door, right.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Well, people are always saying, like, you know, should
Speaker 4: I break up with this friend or should I ignore it?
Speaker 4: And maybe there's another maybe there's another way in mm hmmm.
Speaker 2: Well that's honestly a perfect segue because we love your
Speaker 2: viral six Besties theory and we want to share it
Speaker 2: with our own right side besties. So here's how it goes.
Speaker 2: You have six different categories of Bessie. Right, there's the
Speaker 2: dead body bestie, which we will get into, the good
Speaker 2: time bestie, the work bestie, the similar ambitions bestie, the
Speaker 2: og bestie, and your north star bestie. Walk us through
Speaker 2: these different archetypes and what they mean to you.
Speaker 4: So and the six Besties theory was born both out
Speaker 4: of reflecting back on how I have grown through the
Speaker 4: friendship evolutions that we all go through, and also a
Speaker 4: direct response to an influx of friendship questions from people
Speaker 4: who are not processing the natural evolutions of friendship. So
Speaker 4: I felt like I need to come up with something
Speaker 4: like that will help people. One point about the six
Speaker 4: besties before I go through them is that it's not
Speaker 4: a list that you must have every one of these
Speaker 4: people in your life in order to be satisfied.
Speaker 3: Each one of them is the lens to look at.
Speaker 4: A relationship in your life when you are a person
Speaker 4: who is feeling dissatisfied or when something feels messed up.
Speaker 4: So a dead body bestie became part of my vocabulary
Speaker 4: eight years ago with one of my best friends from
Speaker 4: high school who moved to Vietnam after college and lived
Speaker 4: there for several years, and we like maybe saw each other,
Speaker 4: saw each other once a year, and maybe only spoke
Speaker 4: when we would see each other, and we were catching
Speaker 4: up after I got engaged.
Speaker 3: She came over.
Speaker 4: She had been in the States at that point, and
Speaker 4: I we were just talking about how special it is
Speaker 4: that our friendship is, like we don't have to talk,
Speaker 4: but I know that if I am ever in trouble.
Speaker 3: You will be there for me, no questions asked.
Speaker 4: Like, you're the person who if there was a dead
Speaker 4: body that I needed help with, you would help me
Speaker 4: handle that dead body. This is the town, this is
Speaker 4: mad and quite literally yes, So it's that person in
Speaker 4: your life. They'll never be like, where have you been
Speaker 4: for the last two years? You could call this person
Speaker 4: after two years and they will be there for you.
Speaker 4: So that's the dead body bestie. The OG bestie refers
Speaker 4: to a dear friend that you had grown up or
Speaker 4: just at some point in your past that like knows
Speaker 4: everything about you. They know your roots, they know your family,
Speaker 4: but as time has gone on, you are not in
Speaker 4: touch so much that friend. I see a lot of
Speaker 4: people really struggle with, especially at like major transitions in life,
Speaker 4: whether it's one you go to college or you graduate,
Speaker 4: or maybe you see a new job update from that
Speaker 4: friend on Instagram rather than them telling you, and you
Speaker 4: like have a you know, mental breakdown about what that
Speaker 4: means about your relationship when it might just mean that
Speaker 4: they've become an OG bestie, work bestie self explanatory person
Speaker 4: at work. This one is controversial. Sometimes people think work
Speaker 4: is not a place for real friendships. My closest friends
Speaker 4: have been people I've met at work in my twenties,
Speaker 4: So I will leave that there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm with you on that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like I don't know how I would have gotten
Speaker 4: through any of my jobs without friends. There's the good
Speaker 4: time bestie, which is a person who you have fun with,
Speaker 4: you love and a door, but they might not get
Speaker 4: you on that like deep soul sister love. The example
Speaker 4: that comes to mind is if you are grieving your
Speaker 4: parents divorce, the good time bestie will want to comfort
Speaker 4: you in their own way of maybe going for a
Speaker 4: brunch or hanging out or keeping company. They might not
Speaker 4: be able to respond to you and go there in
Speaker 4: the way that say your north star best he might,
Speaker 4: which I'll get back to that the similar ambition bestie.
Speaker 4: I changed that one to seasonal bestie because I thought
Speaker 4: it sounded better. That's a friend in a certain season
Speaker 4: of life. So it could be that you are studying
Speaker 4: creative writing, you're like pursuing a hobby in adulthood, so
Speaker 4: it's your friend and your creative writing class. It could
Speaker 4: be someone you're meeting in your new mom's group when
Speaker 4: none of your other friends or moms it's the friend
Speaker 4: that's in that season of life with you. And then lastly,
Speaker 4: there's the north Star bestie. And this is the bestie
Speaker 4: that I think everyone wants and everyone deserves, which is
Speaker 4: the person who being with them is like being guided home.
Speaker 4: You know they're your compass. Conversation with them brings you
Speaker 4: back to yourself when you have gone astray. One person
Speaker 4: can be many of these. However, I think using these
Speaker 4: archetypes of friendship can be really helpful for people who
Speaker 4: have not yet examined their own expectations of friends in
Speaker 4: their lives. It's really easy to just feel disappointed by everyone,
Speaker 4: and sometimes you're disappointed in people because they really are
Speaker 4: shit friends.
Speaker 3: Can we swear on this podcast?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 4: Okay, Sometimes you're disappointed because someone is a shit friend.
Speaker 4: And sometimes you're disappointed because you yourself haven't done those
Speaker 4: reflection exercise of thinking about what this relationship actually is
Speaker 4: or am I expecting something of someone that they might
Speaker 4: not be capable of. If I have a friend who
Speaker 4: I adore, I love going on vacation with her, she's
Speaker 4: down to like travel to know the other side of town,
Speaker 4: to try the new restaurant, I don't really feel supported
Speaker 4: by her when I'm talking about like my existential crises
Speaker 4: related to my work. I've had people write to me
Speaker 4: wanting to write that friend off, but I would say, well,
Speaker 4: maybe she's your good time bestie.
Speaker 3: And I think that the six besties theory.
Speaker 4: People have written to me saying that it's like it's
Speaker 4: saved some of their friendships. There are complications with it,
Speaker 4: and I make a point to say, you don't need
Speaker 4: every single one of these because I don't want people
Speaker 4: to think, oh, well, I don't have a seasonal bestie,
Speaker 4: so like that's I'm screwed. Well, do you feel screwed?
Speaker 4: Maybe you do need more support. Maybe you're like, oh,
Speaker 4: I have this. I love hiking, but none of my
Speaker 4: friends love to hike, and it's made me feel really
Speaker 4: distant from them. Maybe actually, it's not a problem with
Speaker 4: these other friends. Maybe I just need to find someone
Speaker 4: to hike with. Maybe I'm missing a seasonal bestie. But
Speaker 4: if you don't feel like you're missing one, you're fine.
Speaker 1: Wait. I want to ask Simone about this, because the
Speaker 1: idea of certain friends for different reasons is I think
Speaker 1: something that not everybody like can live in the gray zone.
Speaker 1: Are you with that? Simone, or are you more black
Speaker 1: and white with friends?
Speaker 2: I actually think that it's First of all, let me
Speaker 2: start by saying I really love this framework. It makes
Speaker 2: relationships really easy to digest, and it also makes friendships
Speaker 2: less disposable when you consider that friendships can serve a
Speaker 2: certain purpose and that not everyone has to be your
Speaker 2: north Star bestie. For me, at this stage of my life,
Speaker 2: in the second half of my thirties, I find myself
Speaker 2: needing certain types of friendships more than others. So I
Speaker 2: thankfully have a lot of north star besties and I
Speaker 2: feel like those are those are just like the deeper,
Speaker 2: more meaningful, more fulfilling relationships, the quality relationships, and those
Speaker 2: are the ones that I want to surround myselves with.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I think for me right now, I have
Speaker 2: a ton of dead body besties and north star besties,
Speaker 2: and then it is really exhilarating to make seasonal besties
Speaker 2: at this stage of life too, because I always want
Speaker 2: to be growing and expanding and acquiring new skills and
Speaker 2: hopefully making new friends in the process.
Speaker 1: How about you, Danielle, I love that you have a
Speaker 1: lot of dead body besties. That's so good. I feel
Speaker 1: like I have an array of friends as well. But
Speaker 1: I am a person who likes deep roots, and so
Speaker 1: I have a lot of like new acquaintances. I don't
Speaker 1: have a lot of new friends until time passes. Like
Speaker 1: once you are my friend, you are my friend for life.
Speaker 1: I don't have a ton of seasonal to be honest,
Speaker 1: but it takes me a little bit to get there.
Speaker 1: I'm not all in right away, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1: So I have a lot of I would say north
Speaker 1: Star and dead Body too, Simon.
Speaker 3: I'm with you and I relate to both of you like.
Speaker 4: It's funny because people will sometimes comment like, what do
Speaker 4: your real friends think about this? If I'm making a
Speaker 4: new friend, I see the north Star potential in Yes.
Speaker 4: If I meet someone new and we don't vibe or
Speaker 4: I think they don't like me, I'm not thinking. I'm
Speaker 4: not like stressing about it at all because I feel
Speaker 4: confident in my other relationships. I think this expacity framework
Speaker 4: is particularly useful for people who aren't there yet.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's particularly useful in your twenties, when
Speaker 2: you're navigating friendships from all different sources and all different origins.
Speaker 2: It would be really interesting to do an intergenerational survey too,
Speaker 2: and I'd love to hear from my mom what her
Speaker 2: assessment of her friend group looks like.
Speaker 3: Right now, Oh, that's such a great idea.
Speaker 2: All right, we're going to take a quick break, but
Speaker 2: we'll be right back with Hello Hayes.
Speaker 1: And we're back.
Speaker 2: Well, this is asking for a friend and we have
Speaker 2: some friendships that could use a little love from Hello Hayes.
Speaker 2: So I know that you've brought some letters to share
Speaker 2: with us, right Hayes.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, let's do it, all right. Letter one, Hello Hayes.
Speaker 4: I have a wedding conundrum that I think only your
Speaker 4: six besties theory can solve. I'm so excited to be
Speaker 4: a bridesmaid in my friend's wedding. Let's call her Olivia.
Speaker 4: What I'm less excited about is navigating the feelings of
Speaker 4: our other friend who is not a bridesmaid.
Speaker 3: Let's call her Julia.
Speaker 4: The three of us met our freshman year of college,
Speaker 4: and we graduated several years ago. Olivia and I have
Speaker 4: been North Star besties from the beginning, where Julia has
Speaker 4: remained a seasonal or maybe og bestie if we count
Speaker 4: college as an origin story. Here's where I need a
Speaker 4: little Hayes magic. When Julia texted me about feeling excluded
Speaker 4: from the wedding party. I wasn't surprised. I completely understand
Speaker 4: feeling hurt when friendship's evolved in this way. However, her
Speaker 4: feeling confused about this after all this time is concerning
Speaker 4: and unrealistic. Olivia and I have been as open as
Speaker 4: possible about our friendship without being unkind. I don't think
Speaker 4: this is a case of her not knowing, but rather
Speaker 4: of not accepting. How do I gently explain to her
Speaker 4: that friendships change and it's okay to have different types
Speaker 4: of festies. Do I finally need to give her an
Speaker 4: honest reality check? Or do I just support her through
Speaker 4: her feelings? Yours amused bridesmaid woo?
Speaker 1: Who is right?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: So weddings bring up all kinds of emotions.
Speaker 3: They really really do.
Speaker 4: And this is one of those letters that I find
Speaker 4: to be really interesting because the inciting incident doesn't really
Speaker 4: have to do with the person who writes the letter,
Speaker 4: And in this case, it's like the letter writer is
Speaker 4: not the bride and she's not the friend who's been
Speaker 4: left out, So right off the bat, I'm interested in
Speaker 4: why the writer is taking responsibility for this problem now
Speaker 4: It could just be because she's you know, she's been
Speaker 4: put in the middle by Julia, but it could also
Speaker 4: be kind of indicative of a like fixer middle child situation,
Speaker 4: and the fact that she's bemuse bridesmaid is like already
Speaker 4: anticipating more comments at the wedding suggests to me that
Speaker 4: like she might be a ruminator like me. So my
Speaker 4: response and my advice to her is about like managing
Speaker 4: our own very human desire to control other people's reactions
Speaker 4: and wanting everything to be okay, because I'd say to her,
Speaker 4: you are not responsible for Olivia's bridesmaid's decisions, nor are
Speaker 4: you responsible for Julia's feelings about not being a bridesmaid.
Speaker 4: What you are responsible for is being a considerate person
Speaker 4: and considerate friend. So rather than thinking about how you're
Speaker 4: gonna solve a problem that hasn't actually happened yet, maybe
Speaker 4: direct your attention to how can I be a good
Speaker 4: friend to Julia? Knowing that this gave her a reaction,
Speaker 4: And I think that could be you know, continuing to
Speaker 4: be normal whatever normal looks like in your relationship, but
Speaker 4: try to alleviate Julia's in securities. In another way, I
Speaker 4: also think like let's give Julia some space to process
Speaker 4: this on her own. I don't know if Julia reacted
Speaker 4: appropriately or like what the what the exact text was,
Speaker 4: but let's not hold Julia's initial reaction against her. If
Speaker 4: you're not chosen to be a bridesmaid, it's completely valid
Speaker 4: to have a hurt reaction to that. It's like one
Speaker 4: of the most common feelings out there. Of course, how
Speaker 4: we act on those feelings is another thing entirely, But
Speaker 4: give Julia some grace. Maybe Julia just needed to say
Speaker 4: something privately to you, and then we can move on.
Speaker 1: No notes, no, no, no, Julia needs to talk to
Speaker 1: her therapist, and yeah, it's not on the other one.
Speaker 3: It's not on her. It's not on her.
Speaker 4: And that's why I'm so curious, Like why does she
Speaker 4: What does it say for the person who wrote in?
Speaker 4: I would want her to think about, like, what does
Speaker 4: it say about me that I'm writing into an advice
Speaker 4: column about something that isn't I'm not even directly involved in.
Speaker 4: That's an interesting line of thinking for her to explore.
Speaker 1: Maybe she's also the wedding planner.
Speaker 2: We just know.
Speaker 4: I don't know exactly exactly, And trios are hard trios
Speaker 4: are hard Of all of the friendship numbers, do we
Speaker 4: think trios are the most doomed.
Speaker 1: I think they're not doomed if each person has self efficacy,
Speaker 1: if they really know who they are and feel confident
Speaker 1: in it, I think it's okay. I have a trio
Speaker 1: from college that's really strong.
Speaker 4: Do you each have individual relationships as well? Or is
Speaker 4: it like, yeah, tell me more?
Speaker 1: And there's seasons. Actually, one of mine is a Julia,
Speaker 1: and we are each closer at different times of our lives,
Speaker 1: depending on what we're going through, And I think each
Speaker 1: one is accepting of when other people are closer. It's
Speaker 1: just seasonal, but the bond and the loyalties always there.
Speaker 1: I love that. All right, that was a really good one.
Speaker 1: What do you have next for us? Hayes?
Speaker 4: All right, hello Hayes. Is it possible to apply the
Speaker 4: six besties theory to a group as a whole. I've
Speaker 4: been close with the group of girlfriends for seven years,
Speaker 4: but over the past year I've noticed that whenever I
Speaker 4: sent something in our group chat about my life, nobody
Speaker 4: replies or seems interested. Yet, when other members of the
Speaker 4: group send in their updates or ask for advice, everybody replies.
Speaker 4: The whole thing has left me confused about where I stand.
Speaker 4: I've started to think that I must be boring, or annoying,
Speaker 4: or just a bad person. I feel heartbroken. For years,
Speaker 4: I thought these girls would one day be my bridesmaids,
Speaker 4: and now I'm not sure if they'd even reply if
Speaker 4: I said I got engaged. Maybe I just need to
Speaker 4: apply the six besties theory and accept that this group
Speaker 4: is no longer what it once was. What would you do, Hayes,
Speaker 4: how would you move.
Speaker 3: Forward from this?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 4: Okay, so you can absolutely apply the six besties theory
Speaker 4: to a group as a whole. But any bestie in
Speaker 4: the bestI theory is still a good friend. Every single
Speaker 4: one of the besties provides value, and sometimes to see
Speaker 4: their value, you have to examine your expectations through the
Speaker 4: six besties theory.
Speaker 3: So can you apply the six besties theory to this group?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 4: I think you should, And maybe some of those reflection
Speaker 4: questions to help you think about whether you need to
Speaker 4: remanage your expectations or if these people just aren't really
Speaker 4: your friends. Like outside of the group text, what's happening?
Speaker 4: This letter is super focused on the group text behavior.
Speaker 4: Do you spend time with these people in real life?
Speaker 4: What are those relationships? Like, Like, I'm curious, are you
Speaker 4: fixating on a texting thing or a real life thing,
Speaker 4: because it would be sad to write off a friendship
Speaker 4: just because people weren't like vibing with your texts in
Speaker 4: the exact way that you want. But like, once you've
Speaker 4: done that self reflection exercise of am I expecting too
Speaker 4: much of this person? If that person still sucks or
Speaker 4: makes you feel bad about yourself, you're questioning your worth
Speaker 4: as a person.
Speaker 3: Something is rotten, is something has gone wrong?
Speaker 1: Have you ever had something like this? Hayes like a.
Speaker 3: Person not engaging with my texts.
Speaker 1: I hear this a lot with people in terms of
Speaker 1: not replying quick enough. People like I have family members
Speaker 1: who talk about this and I don't necessarily agree with them,
Speaker 1: but they say, oh, so and so doesn't reply to
Speaker 1: my texts fast enough. I feel like it's disrespectful or
Speaker 1: like they don't care.
Speaker 3: It's funny. So I get into this with my husband
Speaker 3: a lot.
Speaker 4: I am really bad at with my phone and texting people,
Speaker 4: and it's gotten much worse since I have become a
Speaker 4: person on the internet.
Speaker 3: It's funny.
Speaker 4: I'm so glad you asked that, because I hadn't really
Speaker 4: thought about this until you just said it.
Speaker 3: It's a big, big topic.
Speaker 4: For me right now, being better at responding to people,
Speaker 4: particularly like my in laws. I'm not very good at
Speaker 4: responding to like my mother in law's texts, like you
Speaker 4: got to respond now. For me, it isn't anything beyond
Speaker 4: my phone is a source of anxiety. Sometimes I see
Speaker 4: a text and if I if I'm doing something, I
Speaker 4: can't divert my attention to this text, which I know
Speaker 4: sounds might sound absolutely ridiculous. A text should take a second,
Speaker 4: as Brian, my husband, would say to me, But I
Speaker 4: also know that it hurts people's feelings, So you know
Speaker 4: you hear the strain in my voice because I don't
Speaker 4: know what the answer is. Part of me is like,
Speaker 4: you got to just understand that it's not personal, but
Speaker 4: people do take it personally.
Speaker 1: I know that I'm laughing because I think people with
Speaker 1: big feelings can't reply to text quickly because we think
Speaker 1: about each word for like it all matters so much.
Speaker 1: I have the same issue as you do. What's your
Speaker 1: kind of reaction to this, to this letter? I want
Speaker 1: to know what Simon thinks. I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't really engage in the group chat. The group chat,
Speaker 2: like the group text gives me anxiety, so I just
Speaker 2: I don't say anything. And then I follow up in
Speaker 2: a couple of weeks and I'm like, Hey, do.
Speaker 1: I owe anyone money?
Speaker 2: What are there? What are the deadlines? Where do I
Speaker 2: have to be? Tell me where to show up?
Speaker 1: That's communicate. You know how you can extract yourself from
Speaker 1: a group chat? Have you ever done that? Oh? Yeah, totally.
Speaker 3: You just like I'll do this like Irish exit the
Speaker 3: group chat.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2: I don't believe in I don't. I know, I don't
Speaker 2: believe in group text etiquette. But I also have also
Speaker 2: of two kids, so like I'm just like I can't
Speaker 2: stand my phone like blowing up all the time, Like
Speaker 2: I can't always respond.
Speaker 1: It's so funny, Hayes, Before you leave us, I want
Speaker 1: to know who you go to advice for different people
Speaker 1: for different things.
Speaker 4: So I think I apply like a six besties type
Speaker 4: of framework to who I go to for advice. I'll
Speaker 4: say I definitely have a few friends that I go
Speaker 4: to for advice now, especially as it relates to my work.
Speaker 4: As I said, that's sort of the thing that I
Speaker 4: feel most existential about. I've learned to go to friends
Speaker 4: who really know my strengths and my weaknesses and how
Speaker 4: I can be distracted by shiny objects and help me
Speaker 4: remember what my true goals are and what my true
Speaker 4: strengths are. If I'm feeling overwhelmed by all of the
Speaker 4: opportunities and I don't just mean like flashy, sexy opportunities,
Speaker 4: but I can become overwhelmed sometimes with all of the
Speaker 4: paths I could take, and sometimes a path will seem
Speaker 4: really exciting because it feels like what I should do.
Speaker 4: So I try to go to friends in my life
Speaker 4: now and loved ones who immediately will help me remember
Speaker 4: I don't there's no shulds here. What is really authentic
Speaker 4: to you, Hayes, and I have not been so good
Speaker 4: at that for a long time, and in the last
Speaker 4: several months, I've tried to be more intentional about that,
Speaker 4: because I am impressionable just like everybody else.
Speaker 1: I love that you admit that. That's so wonderful. Thanks
Speaker 1: for asking well, Hayes. Thank you so much for being
Speaker 1: here with us.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, this was such a treat. Thank you
Speaker 3: for having me.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Hayes.
Speaker 3: Hello.
Speaker 1: Hayes is an advice columnist, writer, and content creator. You
Speaker 1: can find more of her friendship advice on her substack
Speaker 1: at Hellohayes dot substack dot com, or on her Instagram
Speaker 1: and TikTok at Hello Hayes. That's h a y e s.
Speaker 2: If you have any friendship questions for us, send them
Speaker 2: over to Hello at the bright Side podcast dot com
Speaker 2: and listen. You never know you could even be featured
Speaker 2: in our next round of asking for a friend.
Speaker 1: That's it for today's show. Tomorrow, we're talking wine ahead
Speaker 1: of Memorial Day weekend. Somalia. Alison Morris Roslin is here
Speaker 1: to tell us which wines are the best to order
Speaker 1: at a restaurant and why you never need to spend
Speaker 1: more than thirty dollars on a bottle.
Speaker 2: Listen and follow the bright Side on the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: I'm Danielle Robe. You can find me on the internets, Instagram,
Speaker 1: and TikTok at Danielle Robe. That's ro Bay. I'm Simone Boys.
Speaker 2: You can find me on Instagram and TikTok at Simone Boye,
Speaker 2: see you tomorrow. Y'all keep looking on the bright side.