1 00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:03,800 Speaker 1: Hello Sunshine. 2 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:06,600 Speaker 2: Hey fam Today on the bright Side, we're back with 3 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:10,879 Speaker 2: another edition of Asking for a Friend. Calling this Alexandra 4 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 2: Hayes Robinson aka Hello Hayes is here to tell us 5 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:18,239 Speaker 2: all about the six different types of besties. It's Thursday, 6 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:19,319 Speaker 2: May twenty third. 7 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: I'm Simone Boyce, I'm Danielle Robe and this is the 8 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 1: bright Side from Hello Sunshine. Danielle. 9 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 2: I am dying to hear about this peoplehood class that 10 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 2: you took. 11 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:34,839 Speaker 1: What does yet entail exactly? So? I took a listening 12 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:38,479 Speaker 1: class and it was fabulous. I did not know what 13 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 1: to expect. Here's a little background. So I interviewed Julie Rice, 14 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 1: who is one of the co founders of soul Cycle 15 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: on my podcast Pretty Smart, and I interviewed her because 16 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 1: I have an obsession with questions and connection and this 17 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 1: felt like a perfect fit. She is obsessed with listening, 18 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 1: so obviously soul Cycle was physical health. 19 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 2: This is totally different. Okay, I have lots of questions. 20 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:07,319 Speaker 2: You're already a great listener, So did you learn anything new? 21 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:10,680 Speaker 1: So I love that you said that because I thought, hmm, 22 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:14,200 Speaker 1: I know how to listen. I can't imagine what I'll 23 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 1: learn in this class like it'll just be fun practice. 24 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: I learned a ton I went in. It was like 25 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 1: a group of eight people, and actually it was a 26 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 1: very sort of truncated version of group therapy. And they 27 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,479 Speaker 1: give you prompts. So you're asked a question and then 28 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:35,039 Speaker 1: you split up into pairs and you are required to 29 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:37,959 Speaker 1: listen to somebody free talk for two minutes and repeat 30 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:42,320 Speaker 1: back to them exactly what they said. It is very 31 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:45,680 Speaker 1: hard to repeat all the details of what somebody said 32 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: back to them. And you're realizing, even though you listened, 33 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: did you really listen to what they were saying, or 34 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 1: were you kind of looking at their eyes or their 35 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 1: hair or what you felt from their body language. I 36 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: actually went a way feeling like I could be a 37 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 1: deeper listener. 38 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 2: What I'm hearing you say is exactly what I'm hearing 39 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 2: you say. Is that repeating back what someone just said 40 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 2: to you is a powerful exercise that we can all 41 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 2: use in our daily communication. 42 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:18,360 Speaker 1: A Plus, you're a pro fantastic no notes. 43 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 2: So what were people sharing during the portion that you 44 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:23,080 Speaker 2: had to listen to? 45 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 1: I was so embarrassed I cried to a stranger. I 46 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:28,640 Speaker 1: think I was the only one who cried everyone else 47 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: seemed to be fine. But you know it's funny, is 48 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:36,919 Speaker 1: I have this friend that we call each other probably 49 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 1: twice a year. We don't ever see each other in person, 50 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 1: and we call for about eight to ten minutes and 51 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:44,919 Speaker 1: each share our deepest, darkest secrets and say like, Okay, 52 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 1: talk to you in six months. Because sometimes you cannot 53 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 1: share the deepest parts of you with the people closest 54 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:53,639 Speaker 1: to you because they care too much. They're gonna want 55 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 1: to solve. And so this class was like, you don't 56 00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:59,239 Speaker 1: get to reply, you don't get to ask questions, you 57 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:02,240 Speaker 1: don't get to solve someone's problems. You just have to 58 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 1: listen and witness them. And it's interesting when you feel 59 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:10,919 Speaker 1: witnessed by someone. It's almost an emotional experience. Like this 60 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 1: guy who i'd never met and we'll probably never see again, 61 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:17,080 Speaker 1: was looking deep in my eyes, hearing me out for 62 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 1: two minutes on something that I had been thinking about 63 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 1: for years. It's new, it's different. 64 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 2: It can be less intimidating because you don't know all 65 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 2: of each other's history. It's almost for some reason, it's 66 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:30,639 Speaker 2: like easier to like start from scratch. 67 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:33,639 Speaker 1: Well, it's just about the moment they don't know anything 68 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 1: about you. You don't know, like you don't carry anything 69 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 1: in or away from it. You just are witnessing somebody. Yeah. 70 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: So I actually read an article about really listening to 71 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 1: your partner, but in the bedroom. So the Washington Post 72 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 1: published this piece about couples sleeping in separate bedrooms. It 73 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 1: talks about why, how, if it's good or bad, and 74 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 1: some have actually said it's better for their relationships. I've 75 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 1: actually heard Carson Day talk about this on the Today 76 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 1: Show a ton Simone. This is very personal, but you 77 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 1: know I'm coming at you. Do you and Michael sleep 78 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: in the same bed? We do sleep in the same 79 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 1: bed always, yeah. Always. 80 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 2: The only time that I sleep in the other room 81 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 2: is if I have to wake up super early or 82 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 2: something and I don't want to disturb him. I think 83 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:20,600 Speaker 2: there's still a huge stigma around sleeping in separate beds 84 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:21,839 Speaker 2: in marriage. 85 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 1: My grandparents did it, and they were married for like 86 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 1: fifty years. They were in the same room. They had 87 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 1: like they were such a cliche. They had those twin 88 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:31,159 Speaker 1: beds in a small room. That's so cute, But it 89 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 1: was because my grandfather snored. And I think that a 90 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 1: lot of women have that issue. Yes, one percent. I've 91 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: learned in marriage watching friends and family like absolutely to 92 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:43,160 Speaker 1: each their own. But you know that I want to 93 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 1: crawl into somebody's skin, So I can't even fathom this. 94 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 1: Like the whole point of having a partner to me 95 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:55,559 Speaker 1: is being so close. Like I definitely want to sleep 96 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 1: in the same bed with you. I want to be 97 00:04:57,120 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 1: inside your sweatshirt. Again. 98 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 2: I have a clam feeling when I hear you speak 99 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:06,039 Speaker 2: like this, But I love that for you. I want 100 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 2: that for you. 101 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 1: I don't see anything wrong with this. 102 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 2: If this is something that would make you happier, if 103 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 2: you think that this is going to strengthen your relationship, 104 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 2: I get it. I'm I think it also has to 105 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 2: do with, like your upbringing. I was an only child 106 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 2: for most of my life, so I'm hyper independent. So 107 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 2: the idea of this sounds like pretty great to me, honestly. 108 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:35,479 Speaker 2: But okay, here's here's my proposition, Danielle. You have separate beds, 109 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 2: but then there's an option to sleep together every now 110 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:41,159 Speaker 2: and then, just for the sake of connection. 111 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 1: I'm sure that's an option for people like you get 112 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:49,159 Speaker 1: to do. That's a good middle ground, I guess. But 113 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 1: you know, What's funny is sleep researchers tend to you 114 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:57,359 Speaker 1: separate bedrooms more positively than relationship therapists do. Oh so, 115 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 1: the sleep researchers are like, yeah, it's good for you. 116 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 1: The relationship therapists are like, yeah, not so sure. 117 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 2: I'd love to unpack that more. I'm so curious about that. 118 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 1: My next question for you is if you ever let 119 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:11,479 Speaker 1: your kids sleep in bed with you? Oh? 120 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:15,559 Speaker 2: Wow, We are pretty anti co sleeping in this house. 121 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 2: We have been from day one. We have always believed 122 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 2: in the power of sleep training, Like we sleep trained 123 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:25,839 Speaker 2: our kids when they were about six months old. And 124 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 2: that's because I think it's better for the kids, and 125 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:30,920 Speaker 2: I think it's better for the parents in the marriage. 126 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: That's just my opinion. 127 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 2: I know people are going to come for me over 128 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 2: this because people have very strong opinions about co sleeping. 129 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 1: I have friends who their kids. 130 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:44,280 Speaker 2: Are like four years old and they still want to 131 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 2: sleep in the bed with them, And I just think 132 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:48,559 Speaker 2: that over time, it just becomes a very hard habit 133 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 2: to break, and it impacts your sleep. Sleep is so 134 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 2: essential to mental health, wellness, being a great parent. So 135 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:58,359 Speaker 2: I think if you want to be your healthiest, you 136 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 2: have to let your kids sleep in a separate bed. 137 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: When I was growing up, we used to say that 138 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 1: we had like, instead of musical chairs, we had musical beds. 139 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 1: Like everyone was in a different bed every night. And 140 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 1: wait what Yeah? Like when I was little, like I 141 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 1: wanted to sleep with my mom and then my brother 142 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: would be in my bed. It was like all over 143 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 1: the place. Oh, but I'm not so sure it's good 144 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 1: for a marriage. I'm with you. I think it's nice 145 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 1: when two parents are like. I don't think i'll I 146 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: don't have kids yet, but who knows. But I would 147 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: hope to have an arrangement like yours. 148 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:31,119 Speaker 2: All that to say, on the nights when my kids 149 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 2: do come into my bed if they've had a nightmare 150 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 2: or something, I love it. But I think I appreciate 151 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 2: it more because it doesn't always happen. It's kind of 152 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 2: like a little treat that I get to sleep with 153 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 2: them that night. 154 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: That's so sweet. 155 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 2: But I think that there needs to be less shame 156 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 2: around these decisions. So everybody, do you do what's best 157 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 2: for you. 158 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 1: And your family? Do you boo? 159 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 2: All? 160 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 1: Right? Well? After the break, Hello, Hayes is here to 161 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: tell us what to do when your friends aren't responding 162 00:07:57,320 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 1: to you with the group chat that's up next. 163 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 2: Welcome back to the bright Side, y'all and another edition 164 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 2: of Asking for a Friend. This is our take on 165 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 2: an advice column all about navigating the trickier parts of friendships. Listen, 166 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 2: they're beautiful, they're complex, they bring us so much joy, 167 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 2: and sometimes they just need a little special care and attention. 168 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 1: Simone a men. And today we're joined by advice columnist 169 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:36,199 Speaker 1: Alexandra Hayes Robinson. And if you're chronically online, you might 170 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 1: already know her as her pen name Hello Hayes. Her 171 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:43,200 Speaker 1: six Besties theory spoke to millions of people and really 172 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 1: sparked a conversation about what friendships are for and the 173 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 1: expectations that we place on them. So we asked her 174 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:52,440 Speaker 1: to come on the show and share her wisdom with 175 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 1: all of us. Hayes, Welcome to the bright Side. 176 00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:58,679 Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so happy 177 00:08:58,679 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 3: to be here. 178 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 1: The first thing I noticed is that you your demeanor 179 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:04,080 Speaker 1: was so bright. You are so bright side. I love 180 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 1: that you can tell that right away. 181 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 4: Is that like a gift of yours to read people's 182 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 4: read people's energy, as they say. 183 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:12,719 Speaker 1: I'd like to think I'm a little witchy, but you 184 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:14,440 Speaker 1: just popped off the screen. We could tell. 185 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 3: I'm so glad. 186 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 1: Hayes. 187 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 2: You've been a writer for years, but recently you found 188 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 2: this incredible following is Hello Hayes, just walk us through 189 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 2: your journey to get here. 190 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 4: The story of starting Hello Hayes begins like the very 191 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:30,320 Speaker 4: the very first time I was aware of being a 192 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 4: person with very big feelings, which probably is, you know, 193 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:35,719 Speaker 4: when I was very very young. I think that one 194 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 4: of my natural gifts maybe is that I have a 195 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:40,280 Speaker 4: very rich inner world. 196 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 1: I spend a lot of time in my head. 197 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 4: I'm a naturally intuitive and introspective person, which has been 198 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:48,360 Speaker 4: really wonderful at lots of points in life. I can 199 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 4: feel things like awe and compassion and really big ways, 200 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:54,839 Speaker 4: And of course it also comes with the other side 201 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 4: of I feel painful things, really really big. 202 00:09:57,640 --> 00:09:58,679 Speaker 3: And I remember. 203 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 4: Growing up there were times that I thought my feelings 204 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 4: were too big. And I think that something I'm trying 205 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:08,319 Speaker 4: to achieve with Hello Hayes is to make my readers 206 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 4: listeners feel like no feeling of theirs is too big 207 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:15,560 Speaker 4: to be discussed. But I think I sort of followed 208 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 4: that feeling driven work in high school. In college, I 209 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:22,959 Speaker 4: was always on an artist's track. I studied writing in school, 210 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 4: and I was first a teacher. Being a middle school 211 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 4: teacher was my first job outside of college, and I 212 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 4: loved hanging out with kids and helping them and learning 213 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:35,000 Speaker 4: about their lives and connecting with them on a one 214 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 4: on one basis. But I felt this hunger to like 215 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:41,439 Speaker 4: share my writing more, and I felt like I wanted 216 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 4: to get into the break into the media world, and 217 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 4: I ended up starting over and interning for a few years, 218 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 4: doing everything from social media to blog articles. And I 219 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 4: had this like Eureka moment just before I turned thirty, 220 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 4: and this feeling of I've achieved everything I thought I 221 00:10:56,320 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 4: wanted to achieve. I've been I've climbed a corporate ladder, 222 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 4: I make good money, I have all of these things 223 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 4: that should be making me happy, and yet I'm not. 224 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 4: And starting Hello Hayes really did feel sort of like 225 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 4: a last resort for me of am I going to 226 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 4: be happy with the work I do? 227 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 3: Am I going to find meaning with the work I 228 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 3: do in the life I live? Or not? And I 229 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:25,560 Speaker 3: downloaded TikTok in December and started making videos about topics 230 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 3: that interested me, which have always been feelings, relationships, hard stuff, 231 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 3: and it took on a life of its own from there. 232 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 1: Were you always the one giving advice in your friend group? 233 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 2: Or is that how you kind of knew that this 234 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 2: column had a lot of potential. 235 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 1: I was always the listener in my friend group. 236 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 4: People always confide in me, and people have always shared 237 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:48,520 Speaker 4: with me, like I just give off that whatever energy 238 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:50,200 Speaker 4: you were picking up on Danielle in the beginning. Maybe 239 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:53,679 Speaker 4: it's a similar thing. I don't necessarily give advice unless 240 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:56,840 Speaker 4: I'm being prompted to give it, and even now with 241 00:11:56,920 --> 00:12:00,200 Speaker 4: Hello Hayes, I think my advice is much more introspective 242 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 4: than it is instructional, and I think that is always 243 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 4: That's always true about the advice I've given. I think 244 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:07,960 Speaker 4: the term advice we could interpret that so many ways. 245 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:10,680 Speaker 4: The advice I give and have always given is less 246 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 4: like I think you should do X, Y and Z. 247 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 4: It's probably more about helping the person I'm with trust 248 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 4: themselves more and find the answers for themselves that are 249 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 4: best for them, because you know what's best for me 250 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 4: might not be best for you. 251 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:27,320 Speaker 1: How would you categorize the type of advice that you give. 252 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 4: It's such a there's it's like, I have no good, 253 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:31,760 Speaker 4: clear answer for that. 254 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 3: I cover. 255 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 4: I talk about all sorts of relationships. Our relationship with others, 256 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:40,319 Speaker 4: which could include friends, partners, family members, and our relationship 257 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 4: with ourselves, which could include things like self esteem confidence. 258 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 4: When I first started, I thought I was going to 259 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 4: spend more time talking about our relationship with work, because 260 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 4: that's the relationship that has always consumed me and still 261 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 4: consumes me. But people have not been so interested. I 262 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:56,839 Speaker 4: don't receive so many letters about that, so maybe I'm 263 00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 4: crazy by myself. 264 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:01,440 Speaker 2: Do you have any observations or thoughts as to why 265 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:05,320 Speaker 2: people come to you with friendship issues and relationship issues 266 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:06,320 Speaker 2: more than anything else. 267 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 4: Somebody wrote me a letter once that wasn't asking for 268 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:14,199 Speaker 4: my advice, but she could sense from my content or 269 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 4: from maybe the fact that I wasn't making content for 270 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:18,200 Speaker 4: a few days, that I was having a tough time, 271 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 4: and she wrote me a very supportive letter, and in 272 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 4: it she said that one of the things she loves 273 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 4: about my work and appreciates about my work is that 274 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 4: when people write to me with option A or option B, 275 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 4: I help them see an option C. And I think 276 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 4: that maybe that is what people are drawn to. The 277 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:38,200 Speaker 4: best advice I've been given in my life is when 278 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 4: the advice does not just tactically tell me what to 279 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:42,839 Speaker 4: do right now, but it kind of unlocks a new 280 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 4: way of thinking about something, and I can then remember 281 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 4: that for all sorts of different situations. I try to 282 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 4: do that with my work, and I think that's what 283 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:49,959 Speaker 4: speaks to people. 284 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 1: I love an option ce. It's like the third door, right. 285 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,439 Speaker 4: Yeah, Well, people are always saying, like, you know, should 286 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 4: I break up with this friend or should I ignore it? 287 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:00,960 Speaker 4: And maybe there's another maybe there's another way in mm hmmm. 288 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 2: Well that's honestly a perfect segue because we love your 289 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 2: viral six Besties theory and we want to share it 290 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 2: with our own right side besties. So here's how it goes. 291 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:13,400 Speaker 2: You have six different categories of Bessie. Right, there's the 292 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 2: dead body bestie, which we will get into, the good 293 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 2: time bestie, the work bestie, the similar ambitions bestie, the 294 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 2: og bestie, and your north star bestie. Walk us through 295 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 2: these different archetypes and what they mean to you. 296 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 4: So and the six Besties theory was born both out 297 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 4: of reflecting back on how I have grown through the 298 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 4: friendship evolutions that we all go through, and also a 299 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 4: direct response to an influx of friendship questions from people 300 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 4: who are not processing the natural evolutions of friendship. So 301 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 4: I felt like I need to come up with something 302 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 4: like that will help people. One point about the six 303 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 4: besties before I go through them is that it's not 304 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 4: a list that you must have every one of these 305 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 4: people in your life in order to be satisfied. 306 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 3: Each one of them is the lens to look at. 307 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 4: A relationship in your life when you are a person 308 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 4: who is feeling dissatisfied or when something feels messed up. 309 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 4: So a dead body bestie became part of my vocabulary 310 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 4: eight years ago with one of my best friends from 311 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 4: high school who moved to Vietnam after college and lived 312 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 4: there for several years, and we like maybe saw each other, 313 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 4: saw each other once a year, and maybe only spoke 314 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 4: when we would see each other, and we were catching 315 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 4: up after I got engaged. 316 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 3: She came over. 317 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 4: She had been in the States at that point, and 318 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 4: I we were just talking about how special it is 319 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 4: that our friendship is, like we don't have to talk, 320 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 4: but I know that if I am ever in trouble. 321 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 3: You will be there for me, no questions asked. 322 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 4: Like, you're the person who if there was a dead 323 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 4: body that I needed help with, you would help me 324 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 4: handle that dead body. This is the town, this is 325 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:48,920 Speaker 4: mad and quite literally yes, So it's that person in 326 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 4: your life. They'll never be like, where have you been 327 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 4: for the last two years? You could call this person 328 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 4: after two years and they will be there for you. 329 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 4: So that's the dead body bestie. The OG bestie refers 330 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 4: to a dear friend that you had grown up or 331 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 4: just at some point in your past that like knows 332 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 4: everything about you. They know your roots, they know your family, 333 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 4: but as time has gone on, you are not in 334 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 4: touch so much that friend. I see a lot of 335 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 4: people really struggle with, especially at like major transitions in life, 336 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 4: whether it's one you go to college or you graduate, 337 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 4: or maybe you see a new job update from that 338 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 4: friend on Instagram rather than them telling you, and you 339 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 4: like have a you know, mental breakdown about what that 340 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 4: means about your relationship when it might just mean that 341 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 4: they've become an OG bestie, work bestie self explanatory person 342 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 4: at work. This one is controversial. Sometimes people think work 343 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 4: is not a place for real friendships. My closest friends 344 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 4: have been people I've met at work in my twenties, 345 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 4: So I will leave that there. 346 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm with you on that. 347 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, Like I don't know how I would have gotten 348 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 4: through any of my jobs without friends. There's the good 349 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 4: time bestie, which is a person who you have fun with, 350 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 4: you love and a door, but they might not get 351 00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:01,080 Speaker 4: you on that like deep soul sister love. The example 352 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 4: that comes to mind is if you are grieving your 353 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 4: parents divorce, the good time bestie will want to comfort 354 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:09,199 Speaker 4: you in their own way of maybe going for a 355 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 4: brunch or hanging out or keeping company. They might not 356 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:13,879 Speaker 4: be able to respond to you and go there in 357 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 4: the way that say your north star best he might, 358 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 4: which I'll get back to that the similar ambition bestie. 359 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:20,920 Speaker 4: I changed that one to seasonal bestie because I thought 360 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 4: it sounded better. That's a friend in a certain season 361 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 4: of life. So it could be that you are studying 362 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:29,639 Speaker 4: creative writing, you're like pursuing a hobby in adulthood, so 363 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 4: it's your friend and your creative writing class. It could 364 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 4: be someone you're meeting in your new mom's group when 365 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:36,680 Speaker 4: none of your other friends or moms it's the friend 366 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 4: that's in that season of life with you. And then lastly, 367 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 4: there's the north Star bestie. And this is the bestie 368 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:44,919 Speaker 4: that I think everyone wants and everyone deserves, which is 369 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:48,400 Speaker 4: the person who being with them is like being guided home. 370 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:51,359 Speaker 4: You know they're your compass. Conversation with them brings you 371 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 4: back to yourself when you have gone astray. One person 372 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:57,640 Speaker 4: can be many of these. However, I think using these 373 00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:00,880 Speaker 4: archetypes of friendship can be really helpful for people who 374 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 4: have not yet examined their own expectations of friends in 375 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 4: their lives. It's really easy to just feel disappointed by everyone, 376 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:09,439 Speaker 4: and sometimes you're disappointed in people because they really are 377 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 4: shit friends. 378 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:11,440 Speaker 3: Can we swear on this podcast? 379 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:11,880 Speaker 1: Yes? 380 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:16,320 Speaker 4: Okay, Sometimes you're disappointed because someone is a shit friend. 381 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 4: And sometimes you're disappointed because you yourself haven't done those 382 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 4: reflection exercise of thinking about what this relationship actually is 383 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:28,120 Speaker 4: or am I expecting something of someone that they might 384 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:31,640 Speaker 4: not be capable of. If I have a friend who 385 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 4: I adore, I love going on vacation with her, she's 386 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 4: down to like travel to know the other side of town, 387 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:41,160 Speaker 4: to try the new restaurant, I don't really feel supported 388 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:44,200 Speaker 4: by her when I'm talking about like my existential crises 389 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:46,399 Speaker 4: related to my work. I've had people write to me 390 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 4: wanting to write that friend off, but I would say, well, 391 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 4: maybe she's your good time bestie. 392 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 3: And I think that the six besties theory. 393 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:54,400 Speaker 4: People have written to me saying that it's like it's 394 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 4: saved some of their friendships. There are complications with it, 395 00:18:57,400 --> 00:18:59,680 Speaker 4: and I make a point to say, you don't need 396 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 4: every single one of these because I don't want people 397 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 4: to think, oh, well, I don't have a seasonal bestie, 398 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:07,880 Speaker 4: so like that's I'm screwed. Well, do you feel screwed? 399 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:11,400 Speaker 4: Maybe you do need more support. Maybe you're like, oh, 400 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:13,639 Speaker 4: I have this. I love hiking, but none of my 401 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 4: friends love to hike, and it's made me feel really 402 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 4: distant from them. Maybe actually, it's not a problem with 403 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:21,400 Speaker 4: these other friends. Maybe I just need to find someone 404 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 4: to hike with. Maybe I'm missing a seasonal bestie. But 405 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:25,640 Speaker 4: if you don't feel like you're missing one, you're fine. 406 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 1: Wait. I want to ask Simone about this, because the 407 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:34,440 Speaker 1: idea of certain friends for different reasons is I think 408 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 1: something that not everybody like can live in the gray zone. 409 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:40,960 Speaker 1: Are you with that? Simone, or are you more black 410 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:41,879 Speaker 1: and white with friends? 411 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:44,920 Speaker 2: I actually think that it's First of all, let me 412 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:47,200 Speaker 2: start by saying I really love this framework. It makes 413 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:52,119 Speaker 2: relationships really easy to digest, and it also makes friendships 414 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:55,919 Speaker 2: less disposable when you consider that friendships can serve a 415 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:58,400 Speaker 2: certain purpose and that not everyone has to be your 416 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 2: north Star bestie. For me, at this stage of my life, 417 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:07,440 Speaker 2: in the second half of my thirties, I find myself 418 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 2: needing certain types of friendships more than others. So I 419 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:14,919 Speaker 2: thankfully have a lot of north star besties and I 420 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:18,360 Speaker 2: feel like those are those are just like the deeper, 421 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:22,719 Speaker 2: more meaningful, more fulfilling relationships, the quality relationships, and those 422 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 2: are the ones that I want to surround myselves with. 423 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:29,040 Speaker 2: So yeah, I think for me right now, I have 424 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 2: a ton of dead body besties and north star besties, 425 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:38,879 Speaker 2: and then it is really exhilarating to make seasonal besties 426 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:41,160 Speaker 2: at this stage of life too, because I always want 427 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 2: to be growing and expanding and acquiring new skills and 428 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:47,920 Speaker 2: hopefully making new friends in the process. 429 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 1: How about you, Danielle, I love that you have a 430 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:54,640 Speaker 1: lot of dead body besties. That's so good. I feel 431 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 1: like I have an array of friends as well. But 432 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:03,239 Speaker 1: I am a person who likes deep roots, and so 433 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 1: I have a lot of like new acquaintances. I don't 434 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 1: have a lot of new friends until time passes. Like 435 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 1: once you are my friend, you are my friend for life. 436 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:17,240 Speaker 1: I don't have a ton of seasonal to be honest, 437 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 1: but it takes me a little bit to get there. 438 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 1: I'm not all in right away, if that makes sense. 439 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:24,600 Speaker 1: So I have a lot of I would say north 440 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:26,439 Speaker 1: Star and dead Body too, Simon. 441 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:29,639 Speaker 3: I'm with you and I relate to both of you like. 442 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 4: It's funny because people will sometimes comment like, what do 443 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:35,960 Speaker 4: your real friends think about this? If I'm making a 444 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 4: new friend, I see the north Star potential in Yes. 445 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:40,440 Speaker 4: If I meet someone new and we don't vibe or 446 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 4: I think they don't like me, I'm not thinking. I'm 447 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:44,359 Speaker 4: not like stressing about it at all because I feel 448 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 4: confident in my other relationships. I think this expacity framework 449 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 4: is particularly useful for people who aren't there yet. 450 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's particularly useful in your twenties, when 451 00:21:55,760 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 2: you're navigating friendships from all different sources and all different origins. 452 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:06,400 Speaker 2: It would be really interesting to do an intergenerational survey too, 453 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:09,119 Speaker 2: and I'd love to hear from my mom what her 454 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:10,760 Speaker 2: assessment of her friend group looks like. 455 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 3: Right now, Oh, that's such a great idea. 456 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:14,879 Speaker 2: All right, we're going to take a quick break, but 457 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:16,679 Speaker 2: we'll be right back with Hello Hayes. 458 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:25,240 Speaker 1: And we're back. 459 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:29,640 Speaker 2: Well, this is asking for a friend and we have 460 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:33,199 Speaker 2: some friendships that could use a little love from Hello Hayes. 461 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:35,600 Speaker 2: So I know that you've brought some letters to share 462 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:36,480 Speaker 2: with us, right Hayes. 463 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 4: Absolutely, let's do it, all right. Letter one, Hello Hayes. 464 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:44,960 Speaker 4: I have a wedding conundrum that I think only your 465 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 4: six besties theory can solve. I'm so excited to be 466 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:50,440 Speaker 4: a bridesmaid in my friend's wedding. Let's call her Olivia. 467 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 4: What I'm less excited about is navigating the feelings of 468 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:55,159 Speaker 4: our other friend who is not a bridesmaid. 469 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:56,400 Speaker 3: Let's call her Julia. 470 00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:58,879 Speaker 4: The three of us met our freshman year of college, 471 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:01,679 Speaker 4: and we graduated several years ago. Olivia and I have 472 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:04,119 Speaker 4: been North Star besties from the beginning, where Julia has 473 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:06,720 Speaker 4: remained a seasonal or maybe og bestie if we count 474 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:09,639 Speaker 4: college as an origin story. Here's where I need a 475 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:13,240 Speaker 4: little Hayes magic. When Julia texted me about feeling excluded 476 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:16,920 Speaker 4: from the wedding party. I wasn't surprised. I completely understand 477 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:19,960 Speaker 4: feeling hurt when friendship's evolved in this way. However, her 478 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 4: feeling confused about this after all this time is concerning 479 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:25,959 Speaker 4: and unrealistic. Olivia and I have been as open as 480 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 4: possible about our friendship without being unkind. I don't think 481 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:30,920 Speaker 4: this is a case of her not knowing, but rather 482 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:34,040 Speaker 4: of not accepting. How do I gently explain to her 483 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 4: that friendships change and it's okay to have different types 484 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:38,919 Speaker 4: of festies. Do I finally need to give her an 485 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:41,160 Speaker 4: honest reality check? Or do I just support her through 486 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 4: her feelings? Yours amused bridesmaid woo? 487 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:46,360 Speaker 1: Who is right? 488 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:48,360 Speaker 2: Yeah? 489 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,240 Speaker 1: So weddings bring up all kinds of emotions. 490 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 3: They really really do. 491 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 4: And this is one of those letters that I find 492 00:23:54,800 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 4: to be really interesting because the inciting incident doesn't really 493 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:02,440 Speaker 4: have to do with the person who writes the letter, 494 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 4: And in this case, it's like the letter writer is 495 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,080 Speaker 4: not the bride and she's not the friend who's been 496 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:11,639 Speaker 4: left out, So right off the bat, I'm interested in 497 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:17,680 Speaker 4: why the writer is taking responsibility for this problem now 498 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:19,720 Speaker 4: It could just be because she's you know, she's been 499 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,040 Speaker 4: put in the middle by Julia, but it could also 500 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 4: be kind of indicative of a like fixer middle child situation, 501 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 4: and the fact that she's bemuse bridesmaid is like already 502 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 4: anticipating more comments at the wedding suggests to me that 503 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 4: like she might be a ruminator like me. So my 504 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 4: response and my advice to her is about like managing 505 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 4: our own very human desire to control other people's reactions 506 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 4: and wanting everything to be okay, because I'd say to her, 507 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:55,919 Speaker 4: you are not responsible for Olivia's bridesmaid's decisions, nor are 508 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 4: you responsible for Julia's feelings about not being a bridesmaid. 509 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 4: What you are responsible for is being a considerate person 510 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 4: and considerate friend. So rather than thinking about how you're 511 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,879 Speaker 4: gonna solve a problem that hasn't actually happened yet, maybe 512 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:14,120 Speaker 4: direct your attention to how can I be a good 513 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 4: friend to Julia? Knowing that this gave her a reaction, 514 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:18,720 Speaker 4: And I think that could be you know, continuing to 515 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 4: be normal whatever normal looks like in your relationship, but 516 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:25,800 Speaker 4: try to alleviate Julia's in securities. In another way, I 517 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:28,960 Speaker 4: also think like let's give Julia some space to process 518 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 4: this on her own. I don't know if Julia reacted 519 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,200 Speaker 4: appropriately or like what the what the exact text was, 520 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:37,520 Speaker 4: but let's not hold Julia's initial reaction against her. If 521 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 4: you're not chosen to be a bridesmaid, it's completely valid 522 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 4: to have a hurt reaction to that. It's like one 523 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:46,920 Speaker 4: of the most common feelings out there. Of course, how 524 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,480 Speaker 4: we act on those feelings is another thing entirely, But 525 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:52,440 Speaker 4: give Julia some grace. Maybe Julia just needed to say 526 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,159 Speaker 4: something privately to you, and then we can move on. 527 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 1: No notes, no, no, no, Julia needs to talk to 528 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:03,680 Speaker 1: her therapist, and yeah, it's not on the other one. 529 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:05,359 Speaker 3: It's not on her. It's not on her. 530 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:07,119 Speaker 4: And that's why I'm so curious, Like why does she 531 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,879 Speaker 4: What does it say for the person who wrote in? 532 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 4: I would want her to think about, like, what does 533 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,639 Speaker 4: it say about me that I'm writing into an advice 534 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 4: column about something that isn't I'm not even directly involved in. 535 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,120 Speaker 4: That's an interesting line of thinking for her to explore. 536 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:24,879 Speaker 1: Maybe she's also the wedding planner. 537 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 2: We just know. 538 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 4: I don't know exactly exactly, And trios are hard trios 539 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,720 Speaker 4: are hard Of all of the friendship numbers, do we 540 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:34,400 Speaker 4: think trios are the most doomed. 541 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:39,679 Speaker 1: I think they're not doomed if each person has self efficacy, 542 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 1: if they really know who they are and feel confident 543 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:44,960 Speaker 1: in it, I think it's okay. I have a trio 544 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:47,159 Speaker 1: from college that's really strong. 545 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 4: Do you each have individual relationships as well? Or is 546 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:52,400 Speaker 4: it like, yeah, tell me more? 547 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,119 Speaker 1: And there's seasons. Actually, one of mine is a Julia, 548 00:26:55,440 --> 00:27:01,879 Speaker 1: and we are each closer at different times of our lives, 549 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 1: depending on what we're going through, And I think each 550 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:09,160 Speaker 1: one is accepting of when other people are closer. It's 551 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:13,560 Speaker 1: just seasonal, but the bond and the loyalties always there. 552 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 1: I love that. All right, that was a really good one. 553 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:18,600 Speaker 1: What do you have next for us? Hayes? 554 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:22,159 Speaker 4: All right, hello Hayes. Is it possible to apply the 555 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 4: six besties theory to a group as a whole. I've 556 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,159 Speaker 4: been close with the group of girlfriends for seven years, 557 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,159 Speaker 4: but over the past year I've noticed that whenever I 558 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 4: sent something in our group chat about my life, nobody 559 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 4: replies or seems interested. Yet, when other members of the 560 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,560 Speaker 4: group send in their updates or ask for advice, everybody replies. 561 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 4: The whole thing has left me confused about where I stand. 562 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,280 Speaker 4: I've started to think that I must be boring, or annoying, 563 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 4: or just a bad person. I feel heartbroken. For years, 564 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:49,080 Speaker 4: I thought these girls would one day be my bridesmaids, 565 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:50,919 Speaker 4: and now I'm not sure if they'd even reply if 566 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 4: I said I got engaged. Maybe I just need to 567 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 4: apply the six besties theory and accept that this group 568 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 4: is no longer what it once was. What would you do, Hayes, 569 00:27:58,800 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 4: how would you move. 570 00:27:59,400 --> 00:27:59,919 Speaker 3: Forward from this? 571 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:00,119 Speaker 2: Yes? 572 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 4: Okay, so you can absolutely apply the six besties theory 573 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,879 Speaker 4: to a group as a whole. But any bestie in 574 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 4: the bestI theory is still a good friend. Every single 575 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:16,639 Speaker 4: one of the besties provides value, and sometimes to see 576 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:20,080 Speaker 4: their value, you have to examine your expectations through the 577 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 4: six besties theory. 578 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 3: So can you apply the six besties theory to this group? 579 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:24,400 Speaker 1: Yes? 580 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:26,959 Speaker 4: I think you should, And maybe some of those reflection 581 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,399 Speaker 4: questions to help you think about whether you need to 582 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,960 Speaker 4: remanage your expectations or if these people just aren't really 583 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:35,680 Speaker 4: your friends. Like outside of the group text, what's happening? 584 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 4: This letter is super focused on the group text behavior. 585 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 4: Do you spend time with these people in real life? 586 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 4: What are those relationships? Like, Like, I'm curious, are you 587 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,360 Speaker 4: fixating on a texting thing or a real life thing, 588 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 4: because it would be sad to write off a friendship 589 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:53,240 Speaker 4: just because people weren't like vibing with your texts in 590 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 4: the exact way that you want. But like, once you've 591 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 4: done that self reflection exercise of am I expecting too 592 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 4: much of this person? If that person still sucks or 593 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,040 Speaker 4: makes you feel bad about yourself, you're questioning your worth 594 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 4: as a person. 595 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 3: Something is rotten, is something has gone wrong? 596 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 1: Have you ever had something like this? Hayes like a. 597 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:12,480 Speaker 3: Person not engaging with my texts. 598 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 1: I hear this a lot with people in terms of 599 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:20,720 Speaker 1: not replying quick enough. People like I have family members 600 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,200 Speaker 1: who talk about this and I don't necessarily agree with them, 601 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,840 Speaker 1: but they say, oh, so and so doesn't reply to 602 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 1: my texts fast enough. I feel like it's disrespectful or 603 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 1: like they don't care. 604 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,760 Speaker 3: It's funny. So I get into this with my husband 605 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 3: a lot. 606 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 4: I am really bad at with my phone and texting people, 607 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:40,480 Speaker 4: and it's gotten much worse since I have become a 608 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 4: person on the internet. 609 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 3: It's funny. 610 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 4: I'm so glad you asked that, because I hadn't really 611 00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 4: thought about this until you just said it. 612 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 3: It's a big, big topic. 613 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 4: For me right now, being better at responding to people, 614 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 4: particularly like my in laws. I'm not very good at 615 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,520 Speaker 4: responding to like my mother in law's texts, like you 616 00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 4: got to respond now. For me, it isn't anything beyond 617 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,480 Speaker 4: my phone is a source of anxiety. Sometimes I see 618 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 4: a text and if I if I'm doing something, I 619 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 4: can't divert my attention to this text, which I know 620 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 4: sounds might sound absolutely ridiculous. A text should take a second, 621 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:14,560 Speaker 4: as Brian, my husband, would say to me, But I 622 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 4: also know that it hurts people's feelings, So you know 623 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 4: you hear the strain in my voice because I don't 624 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:21,600 Speaker 4: know what the answer is. Part of me is like, 625 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,240 Speaker 4: you got to just understand that it's not personal, but 626 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 4: people do take it personally. 627 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,240 Speaker 1: I know that I'm laughing because I think people with 628 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:31,960 Speaker 1: big feelings can't reply to text quickly because we think 629 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 1: about each word for like it all matters so much. 630 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 1: I have the same issue as you do. What's your 631 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 1: kind of reaction to this, to this letter? I want 632 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 1: to know what Simon thinks. I don't. 633 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 2: I don't really engage in the group chat. The group chat, 634 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 2: like the group text gives me anxiety, so I just 635 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,760 Speaker 2: I don't say anything. And then I follow up in 636 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:53,600 Speaker 2: a couple of weeks and I'm like, Hey, do. 637 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 1: I owe anyone money? 638 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:57,080 Speaker 2: What are there? What are the deadlines? Where do I 639 00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:58,760 Speaker 2: have to be? Tell me where to show up? 640 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 1: That's communicate. You know how you can extract yourself from 641 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,520 Speaker 1: a group chat? Have you ever done that? Oh? Yeah, totally. 642 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 3: You just like I'll do this like Irish exit the 643 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:09,040 Speaker 3: group chat. 644 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. 645 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 2: I don't believe in I don't. I know, I don't 646 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 2: believe in group text etiquette. But I also have also 647 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,000 Speaker 2: of two kids, so like I'm just like I can't 648 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,320 Speaker 2: stand my phone like blowing up all the time, Like 649 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 2: I can't always respond. 650 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 1: It's so funny, Hayes, Before you leave us, I want 651 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,120 Speaker 1: to know who you go to advice for different people 652 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 1: for different things. 653 00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 4: So I think I apply like a six besties type 654 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 4: of framework to who I go to for advice. I'll 655 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,160 Speaker 4: say I definitely have a few friends that I go 656 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:39,480 Speaker 4: to for advice now, especially as it relates to my work. 657 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 4: As I said, that's sort of the thing that I 658 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 4: feel most existential about. I've learned to go to friends 659 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:48,720 Speaker 4: who really know my strengths and my weaknesses and how 660 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:53,280 Speaker 4: I can be distracted by shiny objects and help me 661 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:55,720 Speaker 4: remember what my true goals are and what my true 662 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,520 Speaker 4: strengths are. If I'm feeling overwhelmed by all of the 663 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:02,680 Speaker 4: opportunities and I don't just mean like flashy, sexy opportunities, 664 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,280 Speaker 4: but I can become overwhelmed sometimes with all of the 665 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 4: paths I could take, and sometimes a path will seem 666 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 4: really exciting because it feels like what I should do. 667 00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 4: So I try to go to friends in my life 668 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 4: now and loved ones who immediately will help me remember 669 00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:18,120 Speaker 4: I don't there's no shulds here. What is really authentic 670 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 4: to you, Hayes, and I have not been so good 671 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:22,280 Speaker 4: at that for a long time, and in the last 672 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:24,360 Speaker 4: several months, I've tried to be more intentional about that, 673 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:26,880 Speaker 4: because I am impressionable just like everybody else. 674 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:29,560 Speaker 1: I love that you admit that. That's so wonderful. Thanks 675 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:32,480 Speaker 1: for asking well, Hayes. Thank you so much for being 676 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:33,000 Speaker 1: here with us. 677 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, this was such a treat. Thank you 678 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:35,160 Speaker 3: for having me. 679 00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Hayes. 680 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:37,000 Speaker 3: Hello. 681 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 1: Hayes is an advice columnist, writer, and content creator. You 682 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:43,440 Speaker 1: can find more of her friendship advice on her substack 683 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 1: at Hellohayes dot substack dot com, or on her Instagram 684 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:51,000 Speaker 1: and TikTok at Hello Hayes. That's h a y e s. 685 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 2: If you have any friendship questions for us, send them 686 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,960 Speaker 2: over to Hello at the bright Side podcast dot com 687 00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,959 Speaker 2: and listen. You never know you could even be featured 688 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 2: in our next round of asking for a friend. 689 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:11,640 Speaker 1: That's it for today's show. Tomorrow, we're talking wine ahead 690 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:15,560 Speaker 1: of Memorial Day weekend. Somalia. Alison Morris Roslin is here 691 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:17,760 Speaker 1: to tell us which wines are the best to order 692 00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:20,280 Speaker 1: at a restaurant and why you never need to spend 693 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 1: more than thirty dollars on a bottle. 694 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 2: Listen and follow the bright Side on the iHeartRadio app, 695 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,400 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 696 00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:33,400 Speaker 1: I'm Danielle Robe. You can find me on the internets, Instagram, 697 00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:37,760 Speaker 1: and TikTok at Danielle Robe. That's ro Bay. I'm Simone Boys. 698 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,760 Speaker 2: You can find me on Instagram and TikTok at Simone Boye, 699 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 2: see you tomorrow. Y'all keep looking on the bright side.