WEBVTT - Goodfellas 0:00:00.960 --> 0:00:04.560 On the Bechdelcast, the questions asked if movies have women 0:00:04.680 --> 0:00:07.960 and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, 0:00:08.000 --> 0:00:13.680 or do they have individualism? The patriarchy zephynbast start changing 0:00:13.960 --> 0:00:15.960 with the Bechdel Cast. 0:00:16.360 --> 0:00:19.600 Hello, Bechdel Cast listeners. 0:00:18.880 --> 0:00:22.919 Twenty twenty five. How bad could it be? Let's find out? 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:28.720 Happy New Year, everybody. We're here to say hello from 0:00:28.760 --> 0:00:33.000 the present and take you back to the somewhat recent past, 0:00:33.720 --> 0:00:36.600 because to start off the year, we are unlocking a 0:00:36.720 --> 0:00:40.199 Matreon episode for you for an episode that a lot 0:00:40.240 --> 0:00:42.440 of folks who are just on the main feed have 0:00:42.600 --> 0:00:44.880 been frothing for for some time. 0:00:45.120 --> 0:00:50.400 It's the Good Fella's Episode. We recorded this well, we 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:53.199 did it for a theme on the Matreon that was 0:00:53.240 --> 0:00:56.560 called Mob March. Whether or not we did it in March, 0:00:56.840 --> 0:00:58.440 I don't remember, probably not. 0:00:58.800 --> 0:01:03.440 Honestly, very uncle, but that was a month where we 0:01:03.600 --> 0:01:06.120 covered I think two of the most hyper masculine requests 0:01:06.120 --> 0:01:09.360 we get. We did The Godfather and Goodfellas. So if 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:11.280 you enjoyed this episode and you want to hear our 0:01:11.319 --> 0:01:15.399 thoughts on The Godfather, then you can head over to 0:01:15.440 --> 0:01:19.480 our matrearch at patreon dot com. Slash Bechtel Cast for 0:01:19.520 --> 0:01:22.200 five bucks a month you get two bonus episodes. It's 0:01:22.240 --> 0:01:24.600 the best way to support the show, killer would you agree? 0:01:24.920 --> 0:01:27.440 I would agree. But also another way to support the 0:01:27.520 --> 0:01:33.160 show is to come to the live shows slash live 0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:37.640 streams that we have coming up. Maybe you've heard of them, 0:01:37.680 --> 0:01:43.040 maybe you haven't, but now they have. We are doing 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:48.520 shows in La San Francisco, and Portland later in January. 0:01:48.960 --> 0:01:51.600 Tickets are still available to all the shows. We are 0:01:51.640 --> 0:01:55.639 doing a special show in LA on January nineteenth. Jamie 0:01:55.960 --> 0:01:56.800 tell them about it. 0:01:56.920 --> 0:01:58.720 Oh my gosh. Okay, So this is sort of a 0:01:58.760 --> 0:02:02.920 celebration of the show itself. We are having our favorite 0:02:02.960 --> 0:02:05.760 and your favorite guests from the show who live in 0:02:05.760 --> 0:02:08.680 the area or are coming through town to do stand 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:12.120 up or presentations on their favorite movies, and then we 0:02:12.160 --> 0:02:14.320 will also be doing bits we will also I mean, 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:16.240 it's just a celebration of the show because we've never 0:02:16.280 --> 0:02:18.960 really gotten to do that in the almost ten years 0:02:18.960 --> 0:02:21.600 we've been making this show. So if you're in the 0:02:21.720 --> 0:02:23.880 LA area, we would really love for you to come 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:25.919 out and celebrate. And if you don't live in the 0:02:26.040 --> 0:02:28.280 LA area, you can get live stream tickets on the 0:02:28.400 --> 0:02:30.280 nineteenth and watch it for a week after. 0:02:30.680 --> 0:02:33.480 That's so true. So that's the La show. We're very 0:02:33.480 --> 0:02:37.960 excited for it. We also are doing Sketch Fest in 0:02:38.080 --> 0:02:40.359 San Francisco and this is a part of our Shrek 0:02:40.400 --> 0:02:44.480 Tannic tour. And here's something that I decided, Okay, if 0:02:44.520 --> 0:02:49.160 this show sells out, huh, I will get naked so 0:02:49.200 --> 0:02:51.920 that you can draw me like one of your French girls, Jamie. 0:02:52.240 --> 0:02:57.200 And I feel like, you know, what is feminism if 0:02:57.280 --> 0:03:00.560 not meeting your friend where they're at. And so oh sure, 0:03:00.680 --> 0:03:02.919 I have no problem to take my clothes off. Come 0:03:02.960 --> 0:03:04.720 to San Francisco if you want to see us naked, 0:03:04.760 --> 0:03:07.120 and it'll be kind of like clear if we don't 0:03:07.120 --> 0:03:10.919 move tickets from here, how you feel? And that's body shaming, 0:03:11.240 --> 0:03:14.000 So you have to come to the show. 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:16.720 Actually, it's it's insulting to us. 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:22.320 It's if you don't buy, you don't It's like, okay, 0:03:22.360 --> 0:03:24.040 I see how it is. That's fine. 0:03:24.320 --> 0:03:27.120 Yeah, yeah, So you're gonna wanna come to the show 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:29.440 and you're gonna want to see us naked. 0:03:29.560 --> 0:03:31.320 You're gonna want to see our titties. 0:03:31.919 --> 0:03:36.560 Tell your friends grab those tickets, and we'll also be 0:03:36.640 --> 0:03:39.840 talking about Titanic, but the real, the real. 0:03:40.080 --> 0:03:43.280 If you're on the fence, there you go. And then 0:03:43.280 --> 0:03:45.400 of course we're gonna be in Portland, and you know 0:03:45.520 --> 0:03:47.680 TVD we could I will actually know that's a live 0:03:47.680 --> 0:03:49.800 stream show. We can't take out our titties. San Francisco 0:03:49.880 --> 0:03:51.800 really is the only place where we can safely take 0:03:51.840 --> 0:03:54.080 out our titties. Yes, sorry, and that's. 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:56.880 Why you absolutely need to buy tickets and come to 0:03:56.920 --> 0:04:00.560 that show Portland. It is live stream, like you said, 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:04.000 as well as the live show in Portland, and also 0:04:04.120 --> 0:04:06.480 part of the Shrek Tannic tour and we were doing Shrek, 0:04:06.960 --> 0:04:10.960 so completely different show than the Titanic one. And yes 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:15.880 we have we talked about these movies before. Maybe I 0:04:15.920 --> 0:04:18.200 don't really remember. I don't think really we've ever done 0:04:18.240 --> 0:04:19.320 a Titanic episode before. 0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:22.640 But however, this is like sort of the amalgamation of 0:04:22.760 --> 0:04:27.240 like all of those episodes put into one unhinged little show. 0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:31.200 Not even it's all brand new stuff. Like if you 0:04:31.279 --> 0:04:34.640 see these shows, you're gonna be seeing lots of fresh stuff. 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:38.400 And don't worry, we have seen Titanic twice in theaters 0:04:38.480 --> 0:04:42.880 in the last month, so we're absolutely like actually absurdly 0:04:42.920 --> 0:04:43.880 prepared for this. 0:04:44.160 --> 0:04:47.719 So ready, and you can grab tickets to all of 0:04:47.760 --> 0:04:52.360 these shows on our link tree link Tree slash spectel Cast. Again, 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:56.159 there's live shows, there's live streams. You ain't got no 0:04:56.320 --> 0:04:57.719 excuse not to come. 0:04:58.080 --> 0:05:02.160 Yeah, okay, we would absolutely love to see you there. 0:05:02.240 --> 0:05:05.160 And in the meantime, we will be back with piping 0:05:05.320 --> 0:05:08.960 hot brand new episodes for you in the coming week. 0:05:09.000 --> 0:05:10.919 But as we prepare for this tour, we wanted to 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:15.120 share one of our favorite Matreon episodes and again if 0:05:15.160 --> 0:05:18.480 you're if you enjoy this sort of more casual discussion, 0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:21.599 it's patreon dot com slash Bechtel Cast. Five bucks a 0:05:21.600 --> 0:05:25.000 month gets you access not just to episodes like this, 0:05:25.160 --> 0:05:27.359 where we have two new ones monthly, but also a 0:05:27.400 --> 0:05:31.640 back catalog of one hundred and fifty episodes. So that's 0:05:31.680 --> 0:05:34.680 the place to go. And Caitlin, I've always said, I 0:05:34.680 --> 0:05:36.960 think I think we're we're rather good fellas. 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:42.200 We're good fellas absolutely is how I would describe us. 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:45.400 And actually, the one last thing to do before we 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:48.560 jump into the unlocked Matreon episode is to just give 0:05:48.600 --> 0:05:52.679 a quick content warning because the movie involves and we 0:05:52.760 --> 0:05:56.839 discuss on the episode abuse and violence toward women. So 0:05:56.880 --> 0:05:59.520 we just wanted to provide you with that content warning 0:05:59.600 --> 0:06:03.440 at the top. Otherwise, you're so true, Jamie. We are 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:04.960 good fellas. 0:06:04.839 --> 0:06:07.000 We're great fellas. I mean, that's kind of the difference. 0:06:07.040 --> 0:06:08.840 If the movie is about us who have be called 0:06:08.880 --> 0:06:12.600 great fellas, these ones, oh they're just good. But let 0:06:12.680 --> 0:06:17.360 us know what you think. Enjoy this unluck Matrioch episode. 0:06:17.480 --> 0:06:19.600 Enjoy the decast. 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:23.479 As far back as I can remember, I always wanted 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:24.680 to be a podcaster. 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:27.200 No whoo. 0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:33.760 Oh man, that's my rayleiota impression, perfect spot on. 0:06:34.200 --> 0:06:40.400 No, perfect rest and paradise, mister Ray, sweet baby Ray himself. 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:41.600 Wait did he die? 0:06:42.040 --> 0:06:42.840 He died this year? 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:46.640 Oh my gosh, how did I not know that? 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:50.560 I think that it was no disrespect to to Ray. 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:53.560 But if I'm remembering correctly, it was like in a 0:06:53.880 --> 0:06:55.280 it was like one of those weeks where a lot 0:06:55.279 --> 0:06:57.279 of famous people died. But he died in May of 0:06:57.320 --> 0:06:59.240 this year, so I think that he may have gotten 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:05.400 kind of farah fauceted if you if you will, bye, 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:07.520 I forget who it would have been. But yeah, as 0:07:07.560 --> 0:07:10.640 far as I noticed, a sweet man who, yeah, I 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:15.920 know is professionally Italian yeah, and you know, we uh, 0:07:16.120 --> 0:07:18.800 we celebrate that. Sure, let's look at his personal life. 0:07:18.880 --> 0:07:22.120 Let's see. I'm in his personal life section. Oh please, yeah, 0:07:22.400 --> 0:07:24.000 let's see. Let's see. 0:07:24.080 --> 0:07:27.440 Because anytime I've said like, oh, I really like this actor, 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:31.120 I have gone on to regret it. I know, because 0:07:31.360 --> 0:07:33.840 everyone's like, but didn't you know that he was a 0:07:34.280 --> 0:07:38.760 fucking creep, no and predator? And I'm like, well, obviously, no, 0:07:38.880 --> 0:07:39.640 I didn't know that. 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:43.800 No. I think that it looks like looks like our guy. 0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:47.240 Ray got a DUI and O seven and he loved 0:07:47.480 --> 0:07:48.400 horseback riding. 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:50.280 He loved horseback riding. 0:07:50.520 --> 0:07:52.520 As far as I know, he is a nice guy 0:07:52.600 --> 0:07:55.600 that that made a mistake, did his time or did 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:59.560 his fee or whatever happens when that happens, and then 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:02.440 he got back on the horse, got back on the 0:08:02.520 --> 0:08:08.560 horn figuratively. Oh rip, Ray, what a good different. Wait, 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:12.280 here's something fun. Okay, Here's what Ray has to say 0:08:12.320 --> 0:08:15.960 about working in many genres. He said this in twenty 0:08:16.080 --> 0:08:20.200 eighteen while discussing his role alongside Jennifer Lopez as a 0:08:20.240 --> 0:08:23.800 corrupt cop targeted by the FBI in the NBC crime 0:08:23.960 --> 0:08:26.600 drama Shades of Blue. This is all a new information 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:29.559 to me. But he was friends with Jennifer Lopez. Maybe okay, 0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:31.880 he says, oh, quote, you want to do as many 0:08:31.920 --> 0:08:34.600 different genres as you can, and that's what I've been doing. 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:39.240 I've done movies with the Muppets. I did Sinatra, I 0:08:39.320 --> 0:08:42.640 did Good Guys and Bad Guys. I did a movie 0:08:42.679 --> 0:08:43.440 with an elephant. 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:44.480 He did Good Fellas. 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:47.480 He did Good Fellas. He did a movie with an elephant. 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:47.880 Not like that. 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:51.679 He does not get more specific. I decided that I 0:08:51.720 --> 0:08:54.040 was here to try different parts, to do different things. 0:08:54.400 --> 0:08:58.079 That's what it's really about. That's what a career should be. 0:08:58.480 --> 0:09:02.680 What movie had elephant? Oh? Operation Dumbo drop? Oh? 0:09:03.200 --> 0:09:06.120 Okay? Was he in a Muppet movie? 0:09:06.200 --> 0:09:09.840 He's in Muppets from Space? Oh my goodness, is he 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:13.000 in another Muppet movie? I'm sorry, I'm I don't know 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:16.480 looking through his wow, I mean, and what a career? 0:09:17.000 --> 0:09:21.880 Sorry did it? This is our feminist podcast. Yeah, it 0:09:21.920 --> 0:09:25.040 looks like he was in Muppets from Space. I like 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:27.920 that he singled that out as seemingly a career high, 0:09:28.000 --> 0:09:29.080 because he's right. 0:09:29.120 --> 0:09:29.800 He's correct. 0:09:29.840 --> 0:09:33.240 Oh I forgot he was in b movie as himself. 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:36.280 B b ray Liotta. 0:09:36.960 --> 0:09:42.000 Bra I can't think too hard of a B movie. 0:09:42.040 --> 0:09:45.160 My head, it's kind of shocking. We haven't done that. 0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:48.440 That's like our next irony pilled Matreon choice. 0:09:48.440 --> 0:09:51.240 Probably I think we Yeah, let's start a campaign to 0:09:51.320 --> 0:09:53.480 get B movie covered on the cast. 0:09:54.000 --> 0:09:57.160 How hard could it be? Well, tlcome to the Oh 0:09:57.160 --> 0:10:01.280 and he was in I think, honestly the Raleigh to work, 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:05.800 I would have encountered. The most is watching boys play 0:10:05.960 --> 0:10:09.640 Grand Theft Auto in high school because he did. Does 0:10:09.679 --> 0:10:12.840 he did Grand Theft Auto? Yeah, he's in Grand Theft 0:10:12.880 --> 0:10:16.280 Auto Vice City, Okay, And I was looking through it 0:10:16.320 --> 0:10:18.120 and I was like, whoa, I hate that I remember 0:10:18.200 --> 0:10:20.840 this much. But I like just watched my cousins and friends, 0:10:20.920 --> 0:10:23.480 and you know, maybe I'm a bad feminist for this, 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:26.720 but I actually genuinely don't mind watching other people play 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:30.720 video games. I think it's fun. I don't like video like, 0:10:30.760 --> 0:10:33.160 I don't like playing video games, and I really don't 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:36.120 like being watched while I'm playing video games. 0:10:36.240 --> 0:10:38.160 But I like watching others. 0:10:38.400 --> 0:10:41.200 Yeah, I'm like on the side with my iPad playing 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:46.360 you know, my my gaming which is sure Homescapes. And 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:48.560 then if they're playing Grand Theft Auto, you know, it's 0:10:48.640 --> 0:10:51.440 kind of a nice little wait. Anyways, he played the 0:10:51.480 --> 0:10:55.040 part of Tommy Rossetti and GTA Vice City. I remember 0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:57.400 it that tracks. Do you want to come over and 0:10:57.440 --> 0:11:01.520 watch me play Pokemon Violet? Because yeah, you're welcome anytime. 0:11:01.679 --> 0:11:05.120 I genuinely like find it very soothing because it's like 0:11:05.200 --> 0:11:09.680 a like an active passive hang where it's like you 0:11:09.720 --> 0:11:12.600 can chat, but if the conversation lulls, it's like we're 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:17.240 both busy. We're gamers, were gamers, but like, I can't, 0:11:17.360 --> 0:11:21.520 I can't commit to something more than a little puzzle. 0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:26.120 What if we start a Twitch channel, a stream if 0:11:26.120 --> 0:11:30.560 you will, in which I know out watch hear out 0:11:30.640 --> 0:11:37.960 my pitch, my twitch pitch, Jamie, it's you watching me 0:11:38.600 --> 0:11:42.480 play it to sound Pokemon games, but I don't know 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:44.880 anything about Pokemon. So it's me just being like, who's 0:11:44.920 --> 0:11:48.000 this little guy? And then I catch him and I say, oh, 0:11:48.000 --> 0:11:51.520 it's so and so I'll add them to my poke decks. 0:11:51.840 --> 0:11:52.000 You know. 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:54.560 It's another thing that I like to do, and it's 0:11:54.559 --> 0:11:59.240 not anti feminist because I'm doing it so okay. Is 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:02.160 while someone's playing a video, we're like, yeah, if you're 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:05.600 playing Pokemon, and then you're like, who's this little guy? 0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:08.880 I'm like, I'll google it. That's I'm just kind of feminist. 0:12:08.960 --> 0:12:15.160 Your Pokemon wife acquiring knowledge is feminist. I just like 0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:18.760 you know what. I I just don't want to be watched, 0:12:19.240 --> 0:12:23.120 you know, I understand. I mean, I want to be watched, perceived, adored, 0:12:23.200 --> 0:12:27.000 worshiped at all times. But when the video games are on, No, 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:27.800 I don't know what it is. 0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:30.199 It's a different story. I understand it's complicated. 0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:32.600 Welcome to the backdel Cast. 0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:36.480 We're talking about Goodfellas. It's part two of Mob March, 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:39.640 and we are covering. 0:12:39.600 --> 0:12:42.480 The other Mob movie. 0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:46.559 The one other one, Goodfellas from nineteen ninety directed by 0:12:46.720 --> 0:12:52.280 Martin Scorsese. Oh, mister nice, he's such a little cutie pie. 0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:57.480 What Scorsese movies have we covered on this show? Is this? 0:12:57.480 --> 0:12:58.440 This can't be the first? 0:12:58.480 --> 0:12:59.600 Is this the first one? 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:02.920 Oh? My goodness, I think this may be the first one. 0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:05.520 Wow, Wow, it's about damn time. 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:10.160 Look. I think Martin Scorsese is the best. The more 0:13:10.200 --> 0:13:12.800 I learn about him as years past, the more I 0:13:12.960 --> 0:13:16.640 like him. I haven't. I am not a completionist, but 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:21.480 I've seen many of his movies. I like almost everything 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:26.760 I've seen. I feel like I guess that there's I 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:28.760 was thinking about this when we were when I was 0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:33.720 like looking into the discourse around Goodfellas over the years, 0:13:34.280 --> 0:13:38.880 because I think, I mean, we both really like this movie. 0:13:39.679 --> 0:13:41.640 But I do think that there is like there was 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:44.520 a weird point in like the mid twenty tens, which 0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:49.160 is when the show started, where people I think understandably 0:13:49.640 --> 0:13:56.040 took a hard turn against movies like this in general, 0:13:57.040 --> 0:13:59.200 but it had a lot more to do with and 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:00.719 it's like, I know I've been on I don't know, 0:14:00.800 --> 0:14:03.760 I've been on a journey to this effect for years 0:14:03.800 --> 0:14:06.360 at this point of like I feel like if you 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:09.839 asked me about Goodfellas in you know, twenty sixteen, I 0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:11.880 would have been like, I don't know, I haven't seen it, 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:14.200 fuck it, I don't care. Like I'm sick of hearing 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:17.640 guys talk to me about sure movies like that, like 0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:20.800 who gives a shit? Like I'm watching you know what? 0:14:21.040 --> 0:14:25.120 Anything else out of like sheer frustration of like how 0:14:25.200 --> 0:14:27.920 people talk about it. Yeah, which I do think is 0:14:28.480 --> 0:14:30.560 a valid reaction. And I think it was like that 0:14:30.680 --> 0:14:33.640 was such a I don't you know whatever. In retrospect, 0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:36.160 was it a productive time for discussion? That's kind of 0:14:36.240 --> 0:14:39.120 your mileage may vary, but sure it was a time 0:14:39.120 --> 0:14:42.120 where it felt like socially acceptable to say stuff like 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:44.520 that kind of for the first time in our lifetimes 0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:47.080 at least, especially having like both of us been through 0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:50.120 film school and like, you know, having to kind of 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:53.560 be like yeah, totally, you know, like it was cathartic. 0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:57.920 But now like a half decade past that, I feel 0:14:57.920 --> 0:15:01.080 like in a slightly different place where it's like, have 0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:03.720 it like holding two truths at once of like the 0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:06.960 way that a lot of people talk about these movies 0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:12.080 are deeply fucking annoying and like you know, whoa no, 0:15:12.200 --> 0:15:14.760 I always lose this word every time it has to 0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:18.480 come out of my mouth, Like it's a synonym for condescending, 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:25.720 but condescending also works patronizing. Patronizing more like matronizing. Am 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:29.960 I right exactly? But it's the same way as like 0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:34.280 I did like this forever ago, like this performance art 0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:36.920 project that was like around Infinite Jest, a book I've 0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:39.960 never read, but I just I was sick of being 0:15:40.040 --> 0:15:42.160 talked at about it. No one was talking to you 0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:44.280 about it or I was talking at you about it. Yeah, 0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:46.800 like you couldn't possibly fucking understand, and I feel like 0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:51.400 Goodfellas the Godfather, most hyper masculine mob movies kind of 0:15:51.400 --> 0:15:54.520 fall under that same branch, and people, I think we're 0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:57.280 like and you know, I would say majority women were 0:15:57.880 --> 0:16:00.600 kind of like pushing back against that, like leave me 0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:05.640 the fuck alone. But now half a decade later, like, well, 0:16:05.680 --> 0:16:09.400 wait a second, I like this movie, like and it's 0:16:09.400 --> 0:16:12.600 like the the this feels like very something that pops 0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:16.840 up a lot in Martin Scorsese's catalog, in particular, because 0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:20.400 like he is like a pretty historically progressive and cool 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:23.000 guy who's always like lifted up other people's work and 0:16:23.080 --> 0:16:26.120 championed other people, and like it seems like a real, 0:16:26.360 --> 0:16:29.280 like just amazing person. I love him so much, but 0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:31.960 like it feels like movies and his catalog often like 0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:37.800 deal with themes of masculinity in ways that are like 0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:43.560 pretty overtly critical, but the fans of the movies don't 0:16:43.600 --> 0:16:48.240 always get that. And then it's like I developed a 0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:52.120 negative opinion of some of his movies before I'd even 0:16:52.200 --> 0:16:56.360 seen them because of how patronizing fans of those movies 0:16:56.400 --> 0:17:02.480 could be. And ultimately I'm like, oh, I lost out 0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:05.080 in that equation because then I was like staying away 0:17:05.119 --> 0:17:07.000 from them movies like oh, there's no way I would 0:17:07.080 --> 0:17:09.679 like them, And now that I'm like actually starting to 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:12.240 watch them, I was like, well, shit, man, like. 0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:15.159 They had a point. Just because you missed the fucking 0:17:15.240 --> 0:17:16.200 point doesn't. 0:17:15.960 --> 0:17:19.720 Mean I can't get to watch Goodfellas, Like, yeah, geez, 0:17:20.240 --> 0:17:23.880 I don't know. Anyways. I feel like that conversation came 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:26.800 back around in a totally different way when Wolf of 0:17:26.880 --> 0:17:28.480 Fall Street came out, because that's like one of my 0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:31.800 favorite movies, but I think has the same kind of 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:33.320 thing going on. 0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:39.560 Sure, Yeah, so what's your history with I saw this 0:17:39.680 --> 0:17:43.199 movie I don't know, as a late teenager for the 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:47.919 first time, and I really liked it. I bought it 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:48.800 on DVD. 0:17:49.640 --> 0:17:56.000 Hell yeah, catalog, you have one of those binders. I 0:17:56.240 --> 0:17:57.120 love it, I. 0:17:57.200 --> 0:18:02.440 Really do, and I watch it maybe once a year, 0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:07.800 once every couple years. It wasn't one that I returned 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:12.000 to extremely consistently. But I've seen this movie probably like 0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:17.080 eight or ten times throughout my life, always enjoyed it. 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:20.960 You know, I've been fucking with this movie for nearly 0:18:21.359 --> 0:18:22.840 two decades. 0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:24.280 Now you've been at it. 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:27.760 So yeah, that's that's my history about. How about you I. 0:18:27.720 --> 0:18:30.679 Hadn't seen it for all the reasons that I just 0:18:30.720 --> 0:18:33.800 told you. Yeah, like I just hadn't seen it, I mean, 0:18:33.840 --> 0:18:36.640 but also the same thing, honestly is just like this 0:18:37.040 --> 0:18:43.439 has It was like partially that weirdly complicated, convoluted thing 0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:45.679 I just said, and also just like, it's just not 0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:48.000 a genre I've ever been interested in. It's not a 0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:50.080 genre that like whatever. 0:18:50.119 --> 0:18:50.359 I like. 0:18:50.600 --> 0:18:54.280 I feel like the kinds of movies that your family watches, 0:18:54.960 --> 0:18:57.320 like my family, like, no one in my family really 0:18:57.400 --> 0:19:01.040 watch it was interested in mob movies. So it just 0:19:01.080 --> 0:19:06.240 like wasn't something that I was into. And then as 0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:09.840 time went on, I feel like I became disinterested for 0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:12.560 reasons on top of just being like, ma'am, it's not 0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:15.720 really for me. But I love I mean, I really 0:19:15.840 --> 0:19:18.600 loved it. I thought I thought this movie was awesome. Look, 0:19:18.720 --> 0:19:22.359 Mob March really took me off guard in that it 0:19:22.800 --> 0:19:26.760 look points are being made in these movies and the 0:19:27.520 --> 0:19:30.560 and like goodfellow I mean, we had the whole discussion 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:33.720 around The Godfather, which I also liked, but I think 0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:36.639 for the purposes of this show, like you know, we 0:19:36.720 --> 0:19:39.320 talked about it whatever you listen to it. But Goodfellas 0:19:39.359 --> 0:19:45.679 has like so much more going on. Martin's Coorsese. The 0:19:45.760 --> 0:19:51.360 man's an ally, he's interested. He like I just, ah, yeah, 0:19:51.400 --> 0:19:54.040 I thought this movie. I mean, obviously there's stuff to 0:19:54.040 --> 0:19:58.919 talk about, plenty to talk about, but I really left 0:19:59.480 --> 0:20:02.240 feeling I also love. At the very very end of 0:20:02.240 --> 0:20:05.240 the movie, they're like, by the way she left him, and. 0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:08.199 You're like, yeah, yes, get out of there. Karen. 0:20:08.760 --> 0:20:12.280 Oh god, I'm not us rooting for a Karen, but 0:20:13.119 --> 0:20:18.600 this is Look, yeah, there are hashtag not all Karens 0:20:19.040 --> 0:20:22.760 and Karen Hill. We make an exception for Karen Hill. 0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:25.840 We make an exception for Lorraine Bronco. In general, she's 0:20:25.920 --> 0:20:31.480 just she's she is like pasta canon because she's also 0:20:31.520 --> 0:20:33.919 the therapist in soprano. 0:20:33.880 --> 0:20:37.320 Right, and you know what else she has done. Very recently, 0:20:38.320 --> 0:20:41.160 she was the voice of a character named I think 0:20:41.200 --> 0:20:47.280 Sophia in Pinocchio twenty twenty two. Robert semechis, stop it's true. 0:20:47.800 --> 0:20:51.720 Stop it the Pinocchio Wars coming January. I mean I 0:20:51.800 --> 0:20:56.120 think so now it's oh, it's the Pinocchio. I can't 0:20:56.160 --> 0:20:58.320 believe she was in. That sucks that she was in 0:20:58.440 --> 0:21:01.920 the bad one, the bad Pinocchio. But still on brand 0:21:01.960 --> 0:21:06.520 for her. Pinocchio's Italian exactly. But wait, I know we 0:21:06.600 --> 0:21:09.440 talked about this, but now that we've seen the Mob movies, 0:21:09.800 --> 0:21:12.119 I really want to have like a poster that's like 0:21:13.440 --> 0:21:19.640 Vito Corleone, Robert de Niro and Goodfellas and like Pinocchio, 0:21:22.840 --> 0:21:25.399 the three bad, bad Italian boys. 0:21:26.119 --> 0:21:31.159 No, that's that's that's great merch, possible merch. Something to 0:21:31.200 --> 0:21:32.040 think about. 0:21:32.359 --> 0:21:33.920 Our worst shirt. 0:21:36.680 --> 0:21:37.760 Fellows. I want to see. 0:21:38.840 --> 0:21:41.560 Think about it. Why couldn't Pinocchio be one of the 0:21:41.600 --> 0:21:46.960 good fellas, Nigo? This is like a horrible like bottom 0:21:47.000 --> 0:21:50.320 of the barrel robot chicken sketch brain that is still 0:21:50.359 --> 0:21:54.159 exists in my fucking cortex somewhere. But it's like Vito 0:21:54.240 --> 0:21:59.960 Corleone being like Pinocchio, how. 0:22:00.119 --> 0:22:02.480 Do you disrespect me on the day of my daughter's wedding? 0:22:03.800 --> 0:22:14.600 And Pinocchio my Italian king Pinocchio. Oh, anyway, Pinocchio owes 0:22:14.640 --> 0:22:21.400 me money. All right, Well, should I do the recap? Yeah? 0:22:21.640 --> 0:22:35.480 Yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay, here's Goodfellas. It's based on a 0:22:35.520 --> 0:22:40.760 true story and based on a book called Wise Guy 0:22:40.880 --> 0:22:45.720 written by Nicholas Peleggie Allgie Pelegie. 0:22:46.080 --> 0:22:52.120 Being the bad Italian I don't know. Also, Pelegie iconically 0:22:52.880 --> 0:22:58.480 married to Nora E. Fron up until yes, she she's 0:22:58.520 --> 0:23:02.000 written really lovely thing or she wrote really lovely things 0:23:02.040 --> 0:23:06.399 about him, because you know Nora Afron, she loved to 0:23:06.720 --> 0:23:10.480 filet her exes. It's one of my favorite things about 0:23:10.520 --> 0:23:15.760 her and Carl Bernstein. Right, there were no survivors. It's 0:23:16.640 --> 0:23:19.800 he's I think he's still technically alive, but spiritually he's 0:23:19.840 --> 0:23:24.480 been dead for decades. But Nicholas Poleggi was was the 0:23:24.520 --> 0:23:26.960 good husband to Nora Afron. 0:23:26.760 --> 0:23:27.919 So glad to hear it. 0:23:28.040 --> 0:23:31.800 Respect. Respect, Yeah, that's what he's most famous for, not this. 0:23:33.680 --> 0:23:35.639 Yeah, being Nora Efron's her. 0:23:35.560 --> 0:23:37.000 Husband, not shitty husband. 0:23:37.160 --> 0:23:43.520 Yeah. Okay, here's the recap. We open in media res 0:23:44.000 --> 0:23:47.080 uh oh, screenwriting term alert. 0:23:47.240 --> 0:23:49.560 Okay, why don't you tell Why don't you tell the 0:23:49.600 --> 0:23:51.160 folks what that means? 0:23:51.400 --> 0:23:56.840 That literally translates to into the midst of things or 0:23:57.040 --> 0:24:01.080 like into the midst of because we open on the 0:24:01.359 --> 0:24:04.520 characters as we will see them in the middle of 0:24:04.560 --> 0:24:07.879 the story. Because we see three guys are driving in 0:24:07.920 --> 0:24:11.719 a car. It's Ray Liota, Robert de Niro and Joe Peshi. 0:24:12.160 --> 0:24:15.480 They pull over a guy in their trunk, who they 0:24:15.600 --> 0:24:18.840 thought was dead, is not dead, so they stab him 0:24:18.880 --> 0:24:22.560 and shoot him some more until he is dead. Q 0:24:23.160 --> 0:24:28.200 voiceover from Ray Liota's character Henry Hill. He says, as 0:24:28.240 --> 0:24:30.680 far back as I can remember, I always wanted to 0:24:30.720 --> 0:24:35.119 be a gangster. And then we cut back. We flash 0:24:35.200 --> 0:24:40.720 back to Henry as a teen kid in Brooklyn, New York. 0:24:40.880 --> 0:24:43.679 Ever heard of it? I've ever heard of it? I 0:24:43.720 --> 0:24:47.480 think the year is nineteen fifty five. Young Henry gets 0:24:47.520 --> 0:24:51.760 a job working for some mob guys in his neighborhood, 0:24:52.200 --> 0:24:56.080 and he really admires these guys, especially his boss Polly 0:24:56.720 --> 0:24:59.960 Because played by Paul Servina. 0:25:00.400 --> 0:25:04.199 Yeah, King Paul Sorvino, who threatened to who. Famously, his 0:25:04.359 --> 0:25:08.720 most famous thing is that he threatened to uh with 0:25:08.920 --> 0:25:15.000 extreme specificity, threatened to kill Harvey Weinstein after learning that, oh, 0:25:15.000 --> 0:25:20.159 he had been abusive towards his daughter Mira Sorfino. Right, Yeah, 0:25:20.200 --> 0:25:23.960 Paul Sorvino, absolute icon. I believe he also passed this year. 0:25:24.720 --> 0:25:27.399 He did, he passed over the summer. Oh, and also 0:25:27.440 --> 0:25:30.320 he was in Shrek. I mean, wait, who is he 0:25:30.359 --> 0:25:34.720 in Shrek? His well, his Wikipedia picture. Maybe he just 0:25:34.720 --> 0:25:37.120 went to the Shrek premiere because his but look, if 0:25:37.119 --> 0:25:40.119 you go to his Wikipedia page, his Wikipedia picture is 0:25:40.359 --> 0:25:43.639 him at the premiere Shrek four. 0:25:44.320 --> 0:25:46.280 I hope he's in one of the Shrek movies. 0:25:46.320 --> 0:25:49.760 Though, that's so wild. I think it's even funnier he 0:25:49.880 --> 0:25:56.399 is not in Shrek four, So what was he doing there? 0:25:59.760 --> 0:26:03.960 That is weird? Was Mira Sorvino and Shrek for was 0:26:03.960 --> 0:26:05.359 he supporting? Is not? 0:26:06.280 --> 0:26:12.440 Oh? Yeah, she wasn't in it, Paul after, Yeah, he's 0:26:12.520 --> 0:26:12.960 just there. 0:26:13.520 --> 0:26:16.879 No one in the family was in Shrek for what? 0:26:17.359 --> 0:26:19.040 Maybe he just loves Shrek. 0:26:19.400 --> 0:26:23.199 Now this is a mystery I could get really involved in, 0:26:24.000 --> 0:26:26.480 because Paul Sorvina is like a legend. Like he's not 0:26:26.640 --> 0:26:31.400 going for exposure. He's not going to He's not going 0:26:31.440 --> 0:26:33.240 the way that like Carrie would go to things that 0:26:33.359 --> 0:26:35.679 sex and the city to see and be seen at 0:26:35.720 --> 0:26:40.600 the pair of Shrek forever after. That is so bizarre. Anyways, Paul, 0:26:40.720 --> 0:26:43.880 I love it though, also a legend. Yes, shout out 0:26:43.920 --> 0:26:44.400 mister Paul. 0:26:45.240 --> 0:26:51.440 Okay Henry Hill, he admires all these mob guys, especially Polly. 0:26:51.720 --> 0:26:56.160 Henry's explaining how everything works, how he learned the ropes, 0:26:56.520 --> 0:26:59.080 how everyone in the neighborhood came to respect him because 0:26:59.080 --> 0:27:02.280 of who he was a phillyd with. He eventually meets 0:27:02.400 --> 0:27:04.320 Jimmy Conway played by Robert. 0:27:04.119 --> 0:27:06.720 De Niro, and then we're like, Okay, this movie's about 0:27:06.760 --> 0:27:11.040 to be about fathers and sons. Yet again, we had 0:27:11.040 --> 0:27:13.520 a father figure, we had a son figure. Got it. 0:27:13.840 --> 0:27:17.880 He also meets young Tommy before he's played by Joe 0:27:17.960 --> 0:27:20.200 Pesci and I must say the guy who they got 0:27:20.200 --> 0:27:23.040 to play young Tommy and the young actor who they 0:27:23.119 --> 0:27:27.360 got to play teenage Henry Hill. They did a really 0:27:27.400 --> 0:27:32.159 good job finding young actors who very closely resemble I 0:27:32.200 --> 0:27:34.440 thought that Juliota and Joe Peshi. 0:27:34.359 --> 0:27:37.920 Yeah good. I thought it was a good casting all around. Yeah, 0:27:37.920 --> 0:27:42.040 God you got you just gotta love Joe Peshi shout out. 0:27:41.920 --> 0:27:45.600 To know he's despicable, but shout out to his iconic 0:27:45.880 --> 0:27:48.240 Christmas album. Remember that? 0:27:49.680 --> 0:27:52.479 Yeah, I wonder if is it allowed for us to 0:27:52.920 --> 0:27:56.200 play it out it's the Matreon because this is kind 0:27:56.200 --> 0:27:59.840 of our episode that comes out as close to the 0:28:00.080 --> 0:28:02.720 to observe Christmas. I mean, would it be Christmas without 0:28:02.760 --> 0:28:06.240 Joe Peshi's Christmas Album? Probably not? 0:28:07.000 --> 0:28:11.840 Probably not. No. Also, never forget that Goodfellas and Home 0:28:11.880 --> 0:28:14.800 Alone come out the same year, nineteen ninety. 0:28:14.920 --> 0:28:17.719 Yes, this is his banner year and he wins. So 0:28:17.880 --> 0:28:20.440 the spoiler with Joe Peschi, he wins an oscar this year. 0:28:20.960 --> 0:28:23.040 One of us is like, but not for the movie, 0:28:23.119 --> 0:28:27.480 you would exect for Home alone alone. 0:28:29.640 --> 0:28:32.679 Okay, huge year for him, wow, enormous. Yes. 0:28:33.000 --> 0:28:33.400 Yeah. 0:28:33.440 --> 0:28:36.560 So Henry meets these people and one day he gets 0:28:36.640 --> 0:28:42.120 arrested for selling stolen cartons of cigarettes. And during his 0:28:42.200 --> 0:28:46.480 day in court, he didn't give up any names because, 0:28:46.520 --> 0:28:49.680 as Jimmy tells him, you never rat on your friends 0:28:49.760 --> 0:28:52.760 and you always keep your mouth shut. We cut to 0:28:53.000 --> 0:28:56.480 eight years later. Henry has grown up to be Ray Liotta, 0:28:56.920 --> 0:29:02.280 Tommy is Joe Peshi. They're still doing mobs stuff. They're 0:29:02.600 --> 0:29:07.440 stealing a lot and reselling it. We get that. 0:29:07.800 --> 0:29:10.920 Oh sorry, let me let this fucking siren pass. The 0:29:11.000 --> 0:29:14.880 name of the album is just a refinder. Vincent LaGuardia 0:29:14.920 --> 0:29:22.160 Gambini sings just for you. I love it. 0:29:22.200 --> 0:29:23.920 Is that his like musical persona. 0:29:24.480 --> 0:29:27.000 I guess so wait, hold on, I just got to 0:29:27.040 --> 0:29:28.080 refresh my memory and. 0:29:28.040 --> 0:29:37.920 What the work shut games and it's like to bring 0:29:37.960 --> 0:29:39.600 them to theirs. 0:29:40.960 --> 0:29:41.400 He just. 0:29:45.120 --> 0:29:51.480 Vincent LaGuardia Gambini is so funny, amazing, oh man, okay, 0:29:51.760 --> 0:29:55.200 bless him all right, So we get the very famous 0:29:55.200 --> 0:29:59.160 scene where Henry tells Tommy that he's funny after Tommy 0:29:59.200 --> 0:30:03.960 has told the amusing story and then Tommy's like funny. 0:30:03.560 --> 0:30:05.640 How and he seems really mad, but it turns out 0:30:05.680 --> 0:30:07.720 he's just goofin' because these guys love to. 0:30:07.720 --> 0:30:10.640 Goof One thing I love about this movie in contrast 0:30:10.920 --> 0:30:15.880 to the Godfather is that Goodfellas is far less interested 0:30:16.080 --> 0:30:19.840 in like I feel like it's Goodfellas makes it all 0:30:19.920 --> 0:30:24.800 look more realistically like messy and petty and like emotionally 0:30:24.880 --> 0:30:29.040 driven and like, hmm, it is organized crime, but it's 0:30:29.120 --> 0:30:31.120 like not super organized. 0:30:31.480 --> 0:30:33.920 It's pretty sloppy, right a lot of the time. 0:30:34.240 --> 0:30:36.600 And yeah, and it's like it where it's like there's 0:30:36.640 --> 0:30:38.880 so much of The Godfather And I don't know even 0:30:38.920 --> 0:30:40.840 mean this as a negative, but it's just really different 0:30:40.880 --> 0:30:43.800 the way it portrays the same world in the like 0:30:44.040 --> 0:30:47.800 basically the same area of like I don't know, Like 0:30:47.920 --> 0:30:49.480 I feel like there's all these scenes in The Godfather 0:30:49.520 --> 0:30:51.840 that is supposed to like lay out to the audience like, well, 0:30:51.920 --> 0:30:54.360 this family has a conflict with this family but that's 0:30:54.360 --> 0:30:57.000 in conflict with this and they're kind of like really 0:30:57.120 --> 0:31:00.560 laying out what everyone's relationship to each other, their crime 0:31:00.600 --> 0:31:03.960 wise is, where like this movie is like you do 0:31:04.040 --> 0:31:07.760 get that information, but it's not like it's more focused 0:31:07.760 --> 0:31:11.840 on like how mob activity affects people in your life 0:31:12.080 --> 0:31:14.360 versus this is how the mob. 0:31:14.160 --> 0:31:16.560 Works, right, which I appreciate. 0:31:16.720 --> 0:31:17.520 Yeah, it's awesome. 0:31:17.840 --> 0:31:21.360 So then Henry meets this woman Karen played by Lorraine 0:31:21.360 --> 0:31:24.360 Bracco because Tommy wants to go on a date with 0:31:24.440 --> 0:31:27.600 another woman who won't go out with Tommy unless it's 0:31:27.720 --> 0:31:28.680 a double date. 0:31:28.840 --> 0:31:32.000 Right, So oh do we because we just did Batman 0:31:32.080 --> 0:31:35.120 Returns the other day and Danny DeVito is canonically thirty 0:31:35.120 --> 0:31:38.640 three in that movie. I do feel that it's important 0:31:38.680 --> 0:31:41.480 that Robert de Niro is introduced as being twenty eight 0:31:41.600 --> 0:31:43.880 or twenty nine at the beginning of the movie. 0:31:44.400 --> 0:31:49.320 That is very funny. And Rayleota is at the beginning 0:31:49.320 --> 0:31:53.640 of the movie, like Henry Hill twenty one. Yeah, Rayleota 0:31:53.720 --> 0:31:55.840 is twenty one at the beginning of the movie. 0:31:56.080 --> 0:31:58.640 I think Lorraine Broncos must be even younger. They're both 0:31:58.680 --> 0:32:02.800 in their mid to late thirties, but whatever. 0:32:02.600 --> 0:32:08.080 You know, movie, Yeah, right, So Henry and Karen go 0:32:08.120 --> 0:32:11.120 on this double date with Tommy and this other woman. 0:32:11.400 --> 0:32:14.240 Henry and Karen get off to a rocky start, but 0:32:14.360 --> 0:32:16.840 like she gives him a second chance, he takes her 0:32:16.840 --> 0:32:20.200 out to all these fancy dinners. He knows a bunch 0:32:20.240 --> 0:32:24.760 of people. He's flinging money around, and she's very impressed. Yeah, 0:32:24.800 --> 0:32:29.520 so they stick together. Meanwhile, he makes a really big 0:32:29.560 --> 0:32:32.560 score stealing cash from an airplane. 0:32:32.760 --> 0:32:35.040 Do you think it's the one now that the Minions 0:32:35.240 --> 0:32:36.120 oh hijack? 0:32:37.960 --> 0:32:39.040 I think it's the same. 0:32:39.360 --> 0:32:41.360 What year with that event? Are we in like nineteen 0:32:41.400 --> 0:32:43.040 seventy now or are we not there yet? 0:32:43.680 --> 0:32:47.960 Uh? It's I think around eight ish to ten years 0:32:48.080 --> 0:32:50.280 after nineteen fifty five, so it would be like the 0:32:50.280 --> 0:32:52.040 mid sixties, I want to say. 0:32:53.000 --> 0:32:56.080 I'm trying to remember. I'm pretty sure that Minyon's Rise 0:32:56.120 --> 0:33:00.360 of Grew happens in the early seventies. So okay, not 0:33:00.480 --> 0:33:05.680 quite line up, but pretty close. Pretty close and not inconceivable, 0:33:05.840 --> 0:33:08.120 is all I'll say. Because the Minions hijacked a plane 0:33:08.160 --> 0:33:12.040 sometime in the late nineteen sixties early nineteen seventies. 0:33:11.680 --> 0:33:13.320 I think it could be the same one. 0:33:13.440 --> 0:33:16.560 Nothing bad happened, they landed the plane. Worst thing that happened, 0:33:16.600 --> 0:33:19.480 Stewart got stocked into the toilet, but he ended up fine. 0:33:19.800 --> 0:33:20.400 He's fine. 0:33:20.800 --> 0:33:26.440 Yep. Anyways, just an interesting synchronicity, thought it pointed out. 0:33:26.760 --> 0:33:29.840 Yeah, yeah, no, I love it. So they score a 0:33:29.880 --> 0:33:35.520 lot of money from this airplane heist, and Karen comes 0:33:35.520 --> 0:33:40.120 to understand what Henry actually does for a living. She's 0:33:40.400 --> 0:33:43.360 pretty cool with it. We'll talk all about that. But 0:33:44.440 --> 0:33:49.120 they get married, and we switch points of view from 0:33:49.160 --> 0:33:53.959 like Henry's voiceover to Karen's voiceover and perspective as we 0:33:54.000 --> 0:33:57.640 see her get like acclimated to the quote unquote mob 0:33:57.720 --> 0:34:02.760 wife or mob his wife life style. 0:34:02.680 --> 0:34:06.880 Mob his wife his life. Yeah, exactly that scene. I 0:34:07.200 --> 0:34:11.600 do like how that how Karen present Like that's so 0:34:11.800 --> 0:34:15.879 alarming to be suddenly dropped into like a bunch of 0:34:16.120 --> 0:34:19.600 mob wives just casually discussing like children dying, and she's 0:34:19.680 --> 0:34:23.040 just like there's a lot to talk about that scene. 0:34:23.040 --> 0:34:25.280 But I for sure I love Karen. 0:34:25.600 --> 0:34:29.240 Yeah, root for her. One night, Henry, Jimmy and Tommy 0:34:29.640 --> 0:34:33.040 beat the shit out of this mob guy, Billy Bats, 0:34:33.440 --> 0:34:37.040 who had insulted Tommy and Tommy. We know is like 0:34:38.000 --> 0:34:41.160 he's kind of a loose cannon. He's very reactionary and 0:34:41.200 --> 0:34:43.240 he has an extremely fragile ego. 0:34:43.480 --> 0:34:44.560 He's Joseph Peshi. 0:34:45.000 --> 0:34:49.120 It's true. So Tommy kills Billy Bats and they throw 0:34:49.200 --> 0:34:51.800 him in the trunk of Henry's car and start driving 0:34:51.960 --> 0:34:56.280 to like bury his body. They stop at Tommy's mom's house, 0:34:56.760 --> 0:35:01.399 who is played by Catherine Scorseis aka Martin Scorsese's mom. 0:35:01.920 --> 0:35:06.000 She's so good, so good, so cute. 0:35:07.000 --> 0:35:10.360 I think my favorite I love that it was like improvised. 0:35:10.400 --> 0:35:13.239 But the favorite exchange in the movie is when Joe 0:35:13.239 --> 0:35:15.600 fad She's like, you got one dog vasion this way, 0:35:15.600 --> 0:35:17.319 you got one dog vasion. He had a way. 0:35:18.239 --> 0:35:21.480 I like it. She's like, yeah, one dog's facing east, 0:35:21.520 --> 0:35:22.720 the other dog's facing west. 0:35:22.800 --> 0:35:26.080 In my mind, I'm like, that's where he got the oscar. 0:35:27.400 --> 0:35:28.719 You think anyone could do that? 0:35:29.719 --> 0:35:34.560 No, No, So they chat and eat with her and 0:35:34.600 --> 0:35:36.480 then they get back on the road and then this 0:35:36.520 --> 0:35:38.800 is the scene we see at the very beginning where 0:35:38.960 --> 0:35:42.320 they open the trunk and kill the guy then bury 0:35:42.360 --> 0:35:47.319 his body. But this Billy Bats guy was a made man. 0:35:47.760 --> 0:35:51.000 He was like untouchable, so to speak. So now his 0:35:51.080 --> 0:35:55.160 people are looking for him and our friends will get 0:35:55.160 --> 0:35:57.880 in a big trouble if they find his dead body 0:35:59.440 --> 0:36:03.120 and the spot in upstate New York where they buried him. 0:36:03.600 --> 0:36:08.239 That property had been sold and is being developed into condos, 0:36:08.480 --> 0:36:10.440 so they have to go and dig up the body 0:36:10.480 --> 0:36:15.319 and move it somewhere else. We learn that Henry and 0:36:15.680 --> 0:36:19.240 most of the other guys are cheating on their wives. 0:36:19.400 --> 0:36:21.480 Their wives right on Fridays. 0:36:22.120 --> 0:36:24.520 Right, They all have girlfriends who they take to the 0:36:24.560 --> 0:36:29.240 same club that they take their wives too on Saturday Nights, Diabolical. 0:36:30.040 --> 0:36:36.759 Henry's girlfriend is Janice. Karen starts to realize what's going on, 0:36:37.040 --> 0:36:41.759 that he's cheating on her. They argue, Henry gaslights her. 0:36:42.840 --> 0:36:46.879 Then Karen goes to Janice and screams at her. Then 0:36:46.960 --> 0:36:49.400 Karen puts a gun in Henry's face and threatens to 0:36:49.480 --> 0:36:54.840 kill him. He fights back. He's very physically abusive. He 0:36:55.080 --> 0:36:58.560 threatens to shoot her. That is happening. 0:36:58.719 --> 0:37:02.239 Well, yeah, we'll get on around that whole discussion. 0:37:02.440 --> 0:37:08.880 Yeah. Meanwhile, our friend Tommy is flying off the handle 0:37:09.400 --> 0:37:14.400 a lot lately. He shoots and kills one of their 0:37:14.680 --> 0:37:21.120 little minions, Spider, So things are a bit precarious for 0:37:21.200 --> 0:37:28.120 the boys. Yeah, the fellas Joey's gone off leash. It's true. Yeah, 0:37:28.200 --> 0:37:31.640 Henry and Jimmy do a job in Tampa, but they 0:37:31.719 --> 0:37:34.160 get caught and have to go to jail. But because 0:37:34.160 --> 0:37:37.120 they're in the mob, they get to go to a 0:37:37.120 --> 0:37:39.440 special prison room. 0:37:39.800 --> 0:37:42.080 They get to go like jail where you only get 0:37:42.080 --> 0:37:45.200 to hang out with your friends and like pasta, and. 0:37:45.120 --> 0:37:47.400 You have like a little apartment and there's a kitchen 0:37:47.719 --> 0:37:49.759 and they cook all the time. I think it's so 0:37:49.920 --> 0:37:53.920 funny that there's like a solid, like five minute chunk 0:37:53.920 --> 0:37:56.320 of the movie where it's just like them talking about 0:37:56.360 --> 0:37:59.680 all the food that they make, yeah, and like ingredients 0:37:59.680 --> 0:38:02.400 being smuggled in and all that stuff. 0:38:02.480 --> 0:38:05.080 I liked that section, and I wonder, I mean, I 0:38:05.120 --> 0:38:08.919 have we don't read books, but no, I really appreciate 0:38:09.080 --> 0:38:12.120 even more so it seems like, I would say, quite 0:38:12.160 --> 0:38:16.120 a bit more so than The Godfather, that this movie 0:38:16.160 --> 0:38:18.719 is like so based in research. I was like, Oh, 0:38:18.760 --> 0:38:22.799 I wonder what the actual historical precedent for like mob 0:38:22.880 --> 0:38:24.719 guys going to jail and just hanging out with each 0:38:24.760 --> 0:38:27.680 other was. I believe that it happened. I just like 0:38:28.200 --> 0:38:30.400 don't know any specifics. It's fascinating. 0:38:31.160 --> 0:38:34.640 Yup, So Karen is like sneaking at a bunch of 0:38:34.719 --> 0:38:38.560 food to Henry in jail. She's also sneaking in drugs, 0:38:38.680 --> 0:38:42.759 which Henry has started to sell. I don't know if 0:38:42.760 --> 0:38:45.200 he's selling them in prison or he's somehow like moving 0:38:45.239 --> 0:38:47.080 them from prison. 0:38:47.480 --> 0:38:50.880 He's got some sort of operation going, and he's starting 0:38:50.920 --> 0:38:53.680 to skim a little off. He's starting to get high 0:38:53.719 --> 0:38:57.080 in his own supply. As they say, it's true. 0:38:57.760 --> 0:39:00.720 He gets out of prison four years later and Polly 0:39:01.040 --> 0:39:05.000 is like, hey, Henry, stop selling drugs. So he in 0:39:05.040 --> 0:39:08.759 a way is a lot like Vito Corleone, because he's like, 0:39:08.840 --> 0:39:12.239 drugs are bad, Say no to drugs, and Henry's like, 0:39:12.920 --> 0:39:15.319 I don't even know what you're talking about selling. 0:39:15.400 --> 0:39:16.960 What can possibly go wrong? 0:39:18.600 --> 0:39:24.080 Meanwhile, Henry is trafficking cocaine from Pittsburgh and selling at 0:39:24.080 --> 0:39:28.000 other places. He's having his new girlfriend, Sandy played by 0:39:28.200 --> 0:39:33.359 Debbie Maser, mix the cocaine and he's making a lot 0:39:33.440 --> 0:39:36.640 of money and he also brings in Jimmy and Tommy 0:39:36.800 --> 0:39:40.680 to help. Meanwhile, they're also planning and they managed to 0:39:40.760 --> 0:39:46.640 pull off another huge airplane heist, the Luftanza heist, where 0:39:46.719 --> 0:39:51.759 they get several million dollars but this guy Morey who sells. 0:39:51.480 --> 0:39:59.000 Wigs is iconic, iconic wig commercial. Love it so much, 0:39:59.160 --> 0:40:05.120 it's really good. Maury is busting Jimmy's balls, as they say, 0:40:05.920 --> 0:40:08.279 because he's like, where's my money? You didn't give me 0:40:08.360 --> 0:40:12.520 my money yet? Yeah, Maury thinks he's a player. But Jimmy, 0:40:12.840 --> 0:40:17.520 Jimmy is getting sick of Maury's shit, and Henry's trying 0:40:17.560 --> 0:40:20.719 to help him out. He's like, cool it. Maury Moore 0:40:20.840 --> 0:40:23.439 is like, it's all right, I'll cool it, and it's 0:40:23.520 --> 0:40:26.440 like but then he doesn't. Then he doesn't quite enough. 0:40:26.800 --> 0:40:29.480 And what happens to Maury, Well, Jimmy wax him. 0:40:29.960 --> 0:40:32.360 Yeah, Jimmy, Well, he left Jimmy with no choice. 0:40:32.560 --> 0:40:33.480 It's true. 0:40:33.760 --> 0:40:38.440 I'm on Jimmy's side. 0:40:37.400 --> 0:40:42.920 Justice for Jimmy. Jimmy also kills or has basically everyone 0:40:43.000 --> 0:40:47.120 involved in this this big robbery killed, so that the 0:40:47.120 --> 0:40:53.000 Feds like couldn't trace this heist back to Jimmy. Meanwhile, 0:40:53.120 --> 0:40:56.920 Tommy is about to become a made man, which Jimmy's 0:40:56.960 --> 0:40:59.759 really excited about because it'll be good for them to 0:40:59.800 --> 0:41:00.600 help either. 0:41:01.320 --> 0:41:02.839 Is he about to be well, actually, I forget where 0:41:02.840 --> 0:41:04.279 they're living at this point. I was like, is he 0:41:04.320 --> 0:41:05.560 about to be made in Manhattan? 0:41:06.440 --> 0:41:13.680 Oh okay, I don't think they're really hanging out in Manhattan, I. 0:41:13.640 --> 0:41:20.120 Know, but little little, too fancy, but he's being made 0:41:20.160 --> 0:41:21.000 near Manhattan. 0:41:21.640 --> 0:41:25.280 That there there you go. Yeah, that's that's the sequel. 0:41:25.480 --> 0:41:27.760 Yeah, I think that was a that was a worthy 0:41:27.840 --> 0:41:29.160 detour to explore. 0:41:29.280 --> 0:41:32.719 Thank You, No, I think no, Jamie, thank you. 0:41:32.960 --> 0:41:36.719 And rayleioa new Jennifer Lopez. It's all connected. 0:41:38.440 --> 0:41:43.640 Makes you think, It makes you think. Okay, so Tommy 0:41:43.640 --> 0:41:46.400 being a made man will be a good thing for 0:41:46.640 --> 0:41:51.919 Jimmy and Henry, but oh no, it's a trap. And 0:41:52.040 --> 0:41:55.640 the people who were gonna, you know, make Tommy actually 0:41:55.840 --> 0:42:00.000 kill him and it's revenge for Tommy killing Billy Batts. 0:42:00.440 --> 0:42:03.719 Again Tommy horrible. And we'll get to why in a bit. 0:42:03.960 --> 0:42:08.520 But the but Joe Pashy's last like, what does he 0:42:08.600 --> 0:42:10.600 what does he say right before? It's just like so 0:42:10.880 --> 0:42:16.000 he's like, oh no shit, yeah yeah, so and then 0:42:16.000 --> 0:42:19.680 his head is just it's so like this movie's use 0:42:19.719 --> 0:42:22.720 of violence is really If I had like more time 0:42:22.800 --> 0:42:25.920 to prep Slash, I had more than five brain cells, 0:42:25.920 --> 0:42:28.640 I would I would understand more. But like I just 0:42:28.680 --> 0:42:32.440 really I liked this movie is like it seems like 0:42:32.719 --> 0:42:36.920 Scorsese was like really carefully choosing when to show explicit 0:42:37.000 --> 0:42:39.920 violence and when not to, Like, it's not just an 0:42:39.960 --> 0:42:42.440 all out bloodbath. A lot of the violence takes place 0:42:42.520 --> 0:42:45.319 like out of frame or off screen, and you like, 0:42:45.440 --> 0:42:49.200 hear it, but you don't see it. But but when Tommy, 0:42:49.400 --> 0:42:52.399 when Tommy gets whacked, they want you to see Joe 0:42:52.520 --> 0:42:59.640 Pashy's head blop like it is, Oh shit, it's good. 0:43:01.440 --> 0:43:03.160 Yeah, it's it's good stuff. 0:43:03.680 --> 0:43:03.960 Yeah. 0:43:04.840 --> 0:43:09.480 So Tommy is murdered and Jimmy is very upset. Things 0:43:09.520 --> 0:43:12.319 are falling apart for him. Henry is getting more and 0:43:12.360 --> 0:43:17.360 more addicted to cocaine. Then there's this day where Henry 0:43:17.400 --> 0:43:20.560 has a bunch of stuff to do. He's gotta unload 0:43:20.640 --> 0:43:24.239 a big shipment of coke. Sandy is helping him mix it, 0:43:24.400 --> 0:43:26.719 so he's got to go over there. His old babysitter, 0:43:26.840 --> 0:43:29.480 Lois is helping him transport it, so he has to 0:43:29.600 --> 0:43:32.840 organize stuff with her. There's a helicopter following him around 0:43:32.920 --> 0:43:35.000 all day. He's got to go pick up his brother 0:43:35.400 --> 0:43:37.239 and then take his brother home, and he's got to 0:43:37.280 --> 0:43:40.080 make this sauce for the pasta for this big dinner 0:43:40.080 --> 0:43:42.640 that he's cooking all this stuff. 0:43:42.320 --> 0:43:45.840 And Pechi's and peeschi. I thought it was like doing 0:43:46.040 --> 0:43:49.200 a pretty amazing job of like doing all the vo 0:43:49.280 --> 0:43:51.719 for this, as if he was on cocaine while he 0:43:51.840 --> 0:43:57.280 was explaining it too, like it's rale. Sorry, got whacked, 0:43:58.680 --> 0:44:03.520 She got whacked bombed, He's gone. Flea's Flee was again. 0:44:03.640 --> 0:44:05.880 He's just been a little movie buff recently. He was 0:44:06.080 --> 0:44:10.680 a loving good fellas. He planted the whole damn movie. 0:44:11.120 --> 0:44:15.400 He cheered when Karen left Henry, we were both cheering. 0:44:15.440 --> 0:44:19.640 It was great. See please Flee is slowly transitioning into 0:44:19.760 --> 0:44:23.000 being a lab cat. He wasn't a lab cat, but 0:44:23.160 --> 0:44:28.080 now in his advanced age aka three, he's a little 0:44:28.160 --> 0:44:33.160 lab cat. Now. Sorry, I meant Rayleioda. I thought was 0:44:33.160 --> 0:44:36.040 doing a great coke fueled narration. 0:44:36.480 --> 0:44:40.680 Mm hmm. Yeah, it's he's gonna These are all great performances. Yeah, 0:44:40.680 --> 0:44:44.520 it's true. So this very chaotic day is happening, and 0:44:44.640 --> 0:44:47.759 at the end of the day, Henry gets busted by 0:44:48.040 --> 0:44:52.000 the Feds. They throw him in jail. Karen is able 0:44:52.040 --> 0:44:55.640 to bail Henry out by having her mother sell her house. 0:44:56.120 --> 0:45:01.880 Oh my god, devastating. Yeah, but when Henry returns home 0:45:02.080 --> 0:45:04.520 to sell all of that cocaine, it was like sixty 0:45:04.600 --> 0:45:07.160 thousand dollars worth. Karen is like, well, I had to 0:45:07.160 --> 0:45:10.120 flush that down the toilet because the cops were here 0:45:10.200 --> 0:45:12.120 and they had a search warrant and they would have 0:45:12.160 --> 0:45:15.840 found it. And Henry pitches a fit because that was 0:45:15.880 --> 0:45:19.920 their one prospect. They have no other money. Polly won't 0:45:19.920 --> 0:45:24.000 help him because Polly says no to drugs. It seems 0:45:24.080 --> 0:45:27.760 like Jimmy might be trying to whack Karen and Henry 0:45:28.160 --> 0:45:29.600 so they have no one they can turn to. 0:45:29.960 --> 0:45:34.040 Broke my heart because that scene, I mean, and I 0:45:34.040 --> 0:45:36.120 feel like a lot of our conversation is gonna be 0:45:36.200 --> 0:45:40.319 on Karen. But like Karen, I just like she and 0:45:40.360 --> 0:45:44.400 I like I like that she is not like perfect, 0:45:44.560 --> 0:45:47.080 Like she fucks up and she can be pretty hard, 0:45:47.120 --> 0:45:50.400 I think, especially like the moment she chooses to involve 0:45:50.440 --> 0:45:53.600 her children is like she's like not an amazing parent, 0:45:53.920 --> 0:45:57.440 but also she's like set up for just a life 0:45:57.480 --> 0:46:01.000 of pain and misery. Like but I like that scene 0:46:01.080 --> 0:46:03.840 with Jimmy at first, like it. It was the most 0:46:03.840 --> 0:46:07.200 affection I had seen her be given in the entire movie, 0:46:07.400 --> 0:46:10.000 the way that Jimmy talks to her and like asks 0:46:10.000 --> 0:46:14.040 her how she is, showed like offers her a gift 0:46:14.520 --> 0:46:17.480 that you don't think at least in like that moment. 0:46:17.560 --> 0:46:20.439 And maybe I'm like the most foolish person of all time, 0:46:20.480 --> 0:46:23.120 but I was like, oh wow, Like it seems like 0:46:23.239 --> 0:46:25.640 for a second, it's like the first time someone is 0:46:26.239 --> 0:46:29.560 giving her something without expecting something in return, and it's 0:46:29.600 --> 0:46:34.560 like he's treating yeah, yeah, and you're like, oh, finally, 0:46:34.719 --> 0:46:38.560 like someone is fucking nice to Karen. And then two 0:46:38.560 --> 0:46:41.200 seconds and like you can see how much it means 0:46:41.239 --> 0:46:44.520 to her that he asked her like how her mother 0:46:44.719 --> 0:46:47.080 is and like all this stuff, and then and then 0:46:47.160 --> 0:46:49.680 it's like, oh, he was just doing that to set 0:46:49.719 --> 0:46:53.280 her up to be fucking murdered. Like it's just yeah, 0:46:53.600 --> 0:46:56.480 uh that scene broke my damn heart because I was like, 0:46:56.560 --> 0:47:00.399 finally someone gives Karen the time of day. But it's 0:47:00.440 --> 0:47:02.520 only because they're like and that's the last thing that's 0:47:02.520 --> 0:47:05.120 ever gonna happen to you, Like what the fuck? Man? 0:47:05.560 --> 0:47:07.399 Yeah no, no, no, it's. 0:47:07.040 --> 0:47:08.840 These mob guys. They're not very nice. 0:47:09.000 --> 0:47:10.080 They're kind of not nice. 0:47:10.360 --> 0:47:12.800 They're meanies. They're meanies. 0:47:15.000 --> 0:47:19.120 Good goodfellas more like mean fellas anyway. 0:47:18.920 --> 0:47:21.759 Clee, what do you think exactly? 0:47:22.520 --> 0:47:27.240 So Henry has no one he can turn to. He's broke, 0:47:27.600 --> 0:47:29.880 and he has no choice but to cooperate with the 0:47:30.000 --> 0:47:36.400 Feds and rat out his friends. So we see Jimmy, Polly, 0:47:36.600 --> 0:47:39.480 all of those guys get arrested, and then we get 0:47:39.560 --> 0:47:43.360 that famous closing scene where they're in the courtroom. Henry 0:47:43.800 --> 0:47:46.239 names names, he sells out his friends, and then he 0:47:46.320 --> 0:47:49.240 breaks the fourth wall and talks directly to the camera, 0:47:50.200 --> 0:47:53.520 and then we see him living a very like typical 0:47:53.680 --> 0:47:57.600 suburban American life in the witness Protection program. 0:47:57.640 --> 0:47:59.360 Which Karen opted out of. 0:48:00.480 --> 0:48:03.880 Oh well, I know, She's like, I'm not sure if 0:48:03.880 --> 0:48:05.640 I want to do that or not, but I couldn't 0:48:05.680 --> 0:48:06.440 tell if I was. 0:48:06.600 --> 0:48:09.080 I saw oh see. My impression was she opted out it. 0:48:09.160 --> 0:48:12.319 Maybe that's not can't actually listeners sound off in the car? 0:48:12.400 --> 0:48:15.800 I actually don't. I my impression was that she I 0:48:15.840 --> 0:48:17.560 could see it going dif a couple of different ways, 0:48:17.560 --> 0:48:20.120 because like she basically it seemed like in the scene 0:48:21.040 --> 0:48:25.000 which stars an actual cop weirdly, which whatever, that's just 0:48:25.040 --> 0:48:27.279 like a context thing that we can talk about. It's 0:48:27.320 --> 0:48:30.360 not like a but whatever. It seems like she is 0:48:30.440 --> 0:48:34.760 given the choice of like choosing her parents or her husband. 0:48:35.400 --> 0:48:38.399 And then it says later in like the Posts Where 0:48:38.440 --> 0:48:41.400 Are They Now thing, that she separated from him in 0:48:41.560 --> 0:48:44.960 eighty nine. But I could see that being either she 0:48:45.120 --> 0:48:48.759 did do witness protection and then left him or she 0:48:49.160 --> 0:48:53.080 just like technically stayed married to him and then separated 0:48:54.000 --> 0:48:55.560 after not going to witness protection. 0:48:56.440 --> 0:48:59.200 I interpret it as because I think he goes into 0:48:59.239 --> 0:49:03.560 witness protection in the early eighties, he gets arrested like 0:49:03.760 --> 0:49:08.120 five years later for some other drug conspiracy thing in 0:49:08.200 --> 0:49:09.359 like nineteen eighty five. 0:49:09.560 --> 0:49:13.240 I think, do you think that's like she she stays 0:49:13.360 --> 0:49:14.920 for a little bit longer and then bails. 0:49:15.040 --> 0:49:17.000 Yeah, and then she's like, I've had it. 0:49:17.520 --> 0:49:19.680 I liked it better in my head. I liked it 0:49:19.760 --> 0:49:23.120 better in my head because she loves her family so like, 0:49:23.239 --> 0:49:26.640 she loves her parents so much. Well, I hope she 0:49:26.719 --> 0:49:29.840 went back with them. Yeah, I wonder what became of Karen. 0:49:29.960 --> 0:49:33.800 She became Tony Soprano's therapist. She can't escape? 0:49:33.840 --> 0:49:36.879 Well that makes sense, yeah, yeah, I mean she knew 0:49:36.880 --> 0:49:39.319 a lot about the mob, she sure did. 0:49:39.520 --> 0:49:40.680 So that's the movie. 0:49:51.040 --> 0:49:53.000 I mean, for me, I feel like a lot of 0:49:53.040 --> 0:49:57.719 the criticisms that we had about The Godfather, which was, 0:49:57.880 --> 0:50:02.240 like the movie fails to offer any significant character development 0:50:02.600 --> 0:50:07.200 or perspective for the women who exist in this specific 0:50:07.280 --> 0:50:14.399 world and like overly glorifying the lifestyle without offering enough 0:50:14.680 --> 0:50:18.640 critique of it. I feel like Good Fellas handles these 0:50:18.760 --> 0:50:22.279 things not perfectly but but better. 0:50:22.400 --> 0:50:26.200 Certain but like attempts to handle it like yeah, yeah, 0:50:26.400 --> 0:50:31.839 I feel like there's still was more room for I mean, 0:50:31.880 --> 0:50:34.879 there's always more room for, you know, like women's perspectives 0:50:35.320 --> 0:50:39.920 inside of this genre because for all the like I mean, 0:50:40.760 --> 0:50:42.759 and I think I said all I had to say 0:50:42.800 --> 0:50:44.640 about it at the beginning, but I would be curious. 0:50:44.640 --> 0:50:47.239 I mean, if if there's more to say them, let's 0:50:47.280 --> 0:50:50.279 say it. But like I feel like, you know, when 0:50:50.440 --> 0:50:54.280 someone is talking your ear off about Goodfellas, they're usually 0:50:54.440 --> 0:50:58.920 not talking about Karen at all, which I don't think 0:50:59.040 --> 0:51:02.800 is necessarily like the fault of the filmmaker, but I 0:51:03.040 --> 0:51:05.880 but it is like this, It's it's weird because I like, 0:51:06.080 --> 0:51:09.360 based on how I've been spoken to about Good Fellows 0:51:09.360 --> 0:51:11.320 over the years, I wouldn't have expected Karen to have 0:51:11.440 --> 0:51:15.160 as prominent a part as she does, and I think 0:51:15.200 --> 0:51:18.480 that her part is like she's amazed, like I I've 0:51:19.239 --> 0:51:20.120 can we talk about. 0:51:19.960 --> 0:51:21.839 Karen, Let's talk about Karen? Yeah? 0:51:22.040 --> 0:51:22.200 Care? 0:51:22.360 --> 0:51:24.920 But well, I think speaking to what you're saying, it's 0:51:25.080 --> 0:51:28.800 like the biases of the you know, fan base or 0:51:28.880 --> 0:51:31.319 the audience members who are like, well, yeah, I guess 0:51:31.360 --> 0:51:34.160 there's like some woman in the movie, but I'm not 0:51:34.320 --> 0:51:36.080 I don't care about her, even if she does have 0:51:36.160 --> 0:51:39.160 a prominent role in the story, or even like Karen, 0:51:39.160 --> 0:51:41.800 about what's going on with the well the boys, or 0:51:41.840 --> 0:51:42.400 even not like. 0:51:42.480 --> 0:51:45.160 That actively like who cares about women? But just like 0:51:45.480 --> 0:51:48.319 they just don't think to like write, I don't know, yeah, 0:51:48.360 --> 0:51:50.239 like because of those biases, like they they're like, oh, 0:51:50.440 --> 0:51:53.239 I'm I'm just inherently more interested in what's going on 0:51:53.360 --> 0:51:56.240 with Joe Peshi, even though I would argue like Karen 0:51:56.400 --> 0:51:59.560 has like I think one of the clearest strongest arcs 0:51:59.600 --> 0:52:03.400 in the higher movie. Oh for sure, she's just I 0:52:03.600 --> 0:52:07.520 just I just like the lady. I think she's a it's. 0:52:07.360 --> 0:52:09.759 Awesome and I do so like And this is a 0:52:09.800 --> 0:52:12.680 part of the book Wise Guy that is the source 0:52:12.760 --> 0:52:16.560 material for this movie. And while most of the movie 0:52:16.719 --> 0:52:20.719 is accompanied by Henry's voiceover, and it's told from his 0:52:20.880 --> 0:52:24.240 point of view. There are significant portions of the movie 0:52:24.400 --> 0:52:27.880 where the point of view shifts and we hear Karen's 0:52:27.960 --> 0:52:31.239 voiceover and we get a look into Karen's thoughts and 0:52:31.320 --> 0:52:33.400 feelings and perspective. 0:52:33.520 --> 0:52:37.600 It really cool. I mean, it is like and I 0:52:37.760 --> 0:52:41.040 feel like, you know, you do only get and I 0:52:41.080 --> 0:52:44.600 think there was I don't have the window in front 0:52:44.640 --> 0:52:48.520 of me. But in the comments of our Godfather Madrianne episode, 0:52:49.200 --> 0:52:51.000 there was a listener who pointed out, I think very 0:52:51.040 --> 0:52:54.520 ratefully so that like, it's not that there are not 0:52:54.760 --> 0:52:57.920 a lot of mob movies centered around women, because there 0:52:57.960 --> 0:53:01.920 have never been women mobsters. There have been women mobsters. 0:53:02.239 --> 0:53:07.040 So it isn't even like a decent excuse to say, like, oh, well, 0:53:07.160 --> 0:53:10.000 that's why this genre tends to be centered around men. 0:53:10.080 --> 0:53:15.759 It's like, as usual, men's stories are prioritized historically, which 0:53:15.840 --> 0:53:18.160 weirdly this movie kind of says at the end, which 0:53:18.160 --> 0:53:21.840 I thought was interesting. But in anyways, like in The Godfather, 0:53:21.960 --> 0:53:25.480 you get Connie and Kay, both of whom have fascinating 0:53:25.520 --> 0:53:29.520 story arcs that are not depicted on screen and are 0:53:29.600 --> 0:53:34.440 not I don't think, like considered to be important by 0:53:35.160 --> 0:53:38.960 the writers, by the filmmakers. It seems like Scarsace feels 0:53:39.000 --> 0:53:43.120 differently about this Scarscean Polegie, I mean, how is Nicholas 0:53:43.320 --> 0:53:46.279 Polegi gonna go home to Nora Efron and say I 0:53:46.400 --> 0:53:50.680 didn't write a female character? Hello, all I had to say, 0:53:50.920 --> 0:53:53.960 I think that there was still room for more sure 0:53:54.080 --> 0:53:57.320 women because it's like you get one like in The 0:53:57.400 --> 0:54:02.719 Godfather you get two interesting but basically absent female characters. 0:54:03.480 --> 0:54:06.759 And Goodfellas you get one great female character and then 0:54:06.800 --> 0:54:09.600 a couple of other women who seem interesting. It seems 0:54:09.600 --> 0:54:11.040 like there's a lot going on with them, but we 0:54:11.120 --> 0:54:15.320 don't have time kind of thing. But yeah, I mean Karen, 0:54:15.360 --> 0:54:20.279 I thought it was interesting. Lorraine Brocco has done, you know, 0:54:20.400 --> 0:54:23.920 a number of interviews about this part over the years. 0:54:25.719 --> 0:54:27.879 I obviously didn't watch all of them, but I did 0:54:28.000 --> 0:54:31.120 like there is kind of this theme and how she 0:54:31.200 --> 0:54:34.759 talks about Karen where she's unequivocally like, no, Karen is 0:54:35.360 --> 0:54:39.759 an abused like everything, all of her decisions and her behavior, 0:54:40.480 --> 0:54:42.759 like when I was playing the part and I and 0:54:43.320 --> 0:54:45.440 I'm pretty sure she says in an interview with them, 0:54:45.480 --> 0:54:47.719 I think it was like the British Film Academy. She's 0:54:47.800 --> 0:54:49.320 just like I think that it was like written to 0:54:49.440 --> 0:54:54.160 be you know, she's an abused spouse, and like that's 0:54:54.239 --> 0:54:57.080 how I played her, That's how I thought of her, 0:54:57.160 --> 0:54:59.160 and I think that that's how, you know, I was 0:54:59.200 --> 0:55:01.680 supposed to be thinking about her, and I think that 0:55:01.800 --> 0:55:07.520 that reads pretty clearly in a way that like she's 0:55:07.600 --> 0:55:10.520 facing a lot of the same issues that Connie is 0:55:10.719 --> 0:55:15.960 in The Godfather, but like this has it ky like 0:55:16.120 --> 0:55:18.280 but yeah, right, because it's like I was thinking about 0:55:19.800 --> 0:55:23.040 kind of a similar scene. It plays out differently, but 0:55:23.280 --> 0:55:26.480 like there's a scene in The Godfather where Kay asks 0:55:26.760 --> 0:55:28.839 Michael at the very beginning when he's still like good 0:55:28.920 --> 0:55:32.680 boy Michael, and she's like what is going on here? 0:55:32.880 --> 0:55:35.960 Like what is happening here? And he's still good boy Michael. 0:55:36.000 --> 0:55:40.080 So he's like, my family's bad, but I'm good. And 0:55:40.120 --> 0:55:41.399 I'm pretty sure that is the line. 0:55:41.440 --> 0:55:43.120 He says, No, that's a direct quote. 0:55:43.200 --> 0:55:45.200 Yeah, yeah, it's a famous line. 0:55:47.239 --> 0:55:50.560 There's leave the gun, take the Canoli's and then it's 0:55:50.640 --> 0:55:53.720 like my family's bad, but I'm good, two most famous 0:55:53.800 --> 0:55:54.719 quotes from The god. 0:55:54.960 --> 0:55:57.839 I didn't finish the quote. He says, my family's bad, 0:55:57.880 --> 0:55:59.839 but I'm good. And then he pauses, there's a beat, 0:55:59.840 --> 0:56:04.520 and he says, for now that is. It's a really 0:56:04.600 --> 0:56:07.200 famous line from Michael Corleon. 0:56:08.719 --> 0:56:09.399 It's really good. 0:56:09.520 --> 0:56:16.120 Yeah, yeah, it's kind of. It's this cinematic tool called foreshadowing. 0:56:16.400 --> 0:56:20.560 And oh interesting, Okay, I think I learned about that 0:56:20.760 --> 0:56:23.839 as I was getting a master's degree in screenwriting, something 0:56:23.840 --> 0:56:24.759 I would never mention. 0:56:24.880 --> 0:56:26.960 They don't tell you an undergrad. They don't tell you 0:56:27.000 --> 0:56:30.040 an undergrad. You do have to go back to be 0:56:30.160 --> 0:56:33.000 able to understand the richness of for now that is? 0:56:34.360 --> 0:56:40.360 And Pacino sells it. But there's a similar scene towards 0:56:40.400 --> 0:56:46.480 the beginning of Goodfellas where it's pretty early into Henry 0:56:46.560 --> 0:56:50.000 and Karen's relationship and Karen's like, what the fuck is this? 0:56:50.560 --> 0:56:53.600 And he lies to her, but she figures it out 0:56:54.040 --> 0:56:56.600 very quickly, where I feel like the Godfather for some reason, 0:56:56.719 --> 0:56:59.520 Kay is like it takes her so long to figure 0:56:59.520 --> 0:57:02.640 out what's going on, even though it's pretty obvious, but 0:57:03.160 --> 0:57:07.160 Karen like has questions right away. I yeah, figures it 0:57:07.239 --> 0:57:08.160 out pretty quickly. 0:57:08.600 --> 0:57:11.919 In the Godfather episode when we were like, why would 0:57:12.000 --> 0:57:15.520 Diane Keaton's character Kay, who did not grow up in 0:57:15.640 --> 0:57:19.360 a mob family. Why would she stay with Michael knowing 0:57:19.480 --> 0:57:22.880 that he's working his way up the mob ladder, Like 0:57:23.000 --> 0:57:26.600 all of these questions that again would have been interesting 0:57:26.640 --> 0:57:29.800 for that movie to explore, but The Godfather skips over 0:57:29.880 --> 0:57:33.000 all that. But in Goodfellas, there's a similar scenario. There 0:57:33.080 --> 0:57:36.840 are similar scenes even like you said, but like Karen 0:57:36.960 --> 0:57:41.720 is from a you know, typical middle class American family, 0:57:41.880 --> 0:57:45.320 has no dealings with the mob until she meets Henry, 0:57:46.240 --> 0:57:47.920 and we're like, okay, well, why would she stay with 0:57:48.000 --> 0:57:52.360 someone like that? Like that's a potentially dangerous situation. He's 0:57:52.520 --> 0:57:56.120 not a good person. But Goodfellas offers a lot of 0:57:56.400 --> 0:58:01.480 insights to her, her her feelings, her trajector, like everything 0:58:01.560 --> 0:58:05.320 about it. There's that scene where Henry beats the crap 0:58:05.400 --> 0:58:08.760 out of this man who had assaulted Karen, and then 0:58:08.840 --> 0:58:12.240 he hands her a gun to hide, and her voiceover 0:58:12.360 --> 0:58:15.480 says like, oh, I know there are women like my 0:58:15.600 --> 0:58:18.120 best friends who would have gotten out of there the 0:58:18.200 --> 0:58:20.520 minute their boyfriend gave them a gun to hide, But 0:58:20.680 --> 0:58:23.320 I didn't. I got to admit the truth. It turned 0:58:23.400 --> 0:58:27.120 me on, And like that's like kind of simplifying things, 0:58:27.160 --> 0:58:30.280 but I and I'm speculating here, But I feel like 0:58:31.080 --> 0:58:35.600 it's that she found both like the gun and the 0:58:35.840 --> 0:58:38.760 secrecy and just like a lot of stuff surrounding that 0:58:38.920 --> 0:58:42.680 whole situation. The idea that like she has a boyfriend 0:58:42.720 --> 0:58:45.680 who would be able to offer her protection against other men, 0:58:45.880 --> 0:58:49.200 Like all of that stuff is just like exciting and 0:58:49.280 --> 0:58:53.960 would appeal to not everyone obviously, but it appeals to her, 0:58:54.000 --> 0:58:57.600 And she like says that, and that's the insight that 0:58:57.720 --> 0:59:02.160 we need to understand why someone would stay with a 0:59:02.240 --> 0:59:04.080 guy like Henry Hill, Right. 0:59:04.000 --> 0:59:05.760 I mean it's like and and it's again, it's like 0:59:06.960 --> 0:59:09.400 I like that she like opens it by being like, yeah, 0:59:09.440 --> 0:59:13.920 this obviously is not for everyone, but I think that, like, yeah, 0:59:14.000 --> 0:59:16.440 the context of like she's lived it seems like a 0:59:17.320 --> 0:59:22.160 pretty you know, quote unquote boring, safe life, and here 0:59:22.360 --> 0:59:26.000 is this exciting person. It's also like taking in the 0:59:26.200 --> 0:59:30.400 historical context of you know, this is I would imagine 0:59:30.440 --> 0:59:33.440 like the early sixties, yeah, where it's like there's not 0:59:33.600 --> 0:59:37.600 as many options for quote unquote an exciting life available 0:59:38.440 --> 0:59:41.600 to women of this time. They're still very the very 0:59:41.680 --> 0:59:44.160 rigid expectation that you have to get married and have 0:59:44.400 --> 0:59:47.640 kids no matter what. And so if she's looked, I mean, 0:59:48.320 --> 0:59:52.280 and again like she's it's hard because the actors are 0:59:52.360 --> 0:59:55.760 very obviously like thirty six, but you're like, oh, she's 0:59:55.800 --> 0:59:59.600 also twenty one years old. Like right, It's like, you know, 0:59:59.840 --> 1:00:03.600 not inconceivable that anyone of any gender would just be like, oh, 1:00:03.720 --> 1:00:07.320 I'm I'm going out with some like exciting asshole because 1:00:07.320 --> 1:00:09.680 I'm twenty one and that's what twenty one year olds. 1:00:09.520 --> 1:00:14.240 Do, especially like a guy who has money, who has connections, 1:00:14.320 --> 1:00:18.280 who is respected by the people around him, who you know, 1:00:18.800 --> 1:00:21.600 pays for dinners and champagne and all this stuff. Like 1:00:22.280 --> 1:00:27.960 again taking the historical context into consideration, where women relied 1:00:28.120 --> 1:00:32.480 on husbands for survival in a lot of cases because like, 1:00:33.320 --> 1:00:36.920 career opportunities were far more limited for women, in a 1:00:36.960 --> 1:00:40.120 way to support yourself as a woman was far more limited. 1:00:41.080 --> 1:00:43.880 Women have always been conditioned to be like, Okay, find 1:00:43.920 --> 1:00:45.880 a man who can provide for you. And this was 1:00:45.960 --> 1:00:50.760 clearly a man that could provide for her as she perceived. 1:00:50.400 --> 1:00:52.640 It, right, And it's like it would have been, I mean, 1:00:53.040 --> 1:00:56.640 it was it would have been interesting narratively to see 1:00:56.920 --> 1:00:59.320 a foil to that, because it's not like in the 1:00:59.360 --> 1:01:01.960 early sixties, a woman could not support herself or like 1:01:02.000 --> 1:01:04.160 sure could not go another way, and like that would 1:01:04.200 --> 1:01:06.120 have you know, been interesting to have some sort of 1:01:07.000 --> 1:01:10.880 you know, alternative or or even even for Karen to 1:01:11.000 --> 1:01:13.760 see of like, oh, it's not inconceivable that I could 1:01:14.160 --> 1:01:16.120 be on my own. But I feel like, yeah, you're 1:01:16.120 --> 1:01:18.640 giving the information you need as to like why she 1:01:18.840 --> 1:01:23.400 gets sucked into this. I think in particular that moment 1:01:23.640 --> 1:01:26.880 where I guess everything. I mean, Henry is like a 1:01:27.000 --> 1:01:30.920 horrible like Henry's a fucking scum bad, He's a bad fella. 1:01:31.480 --> 1:01:35.479 He's he's a bad fellow, he's a devil father, He's 1:01:36.480 --> 1:01:41.520 he's bad. But but right away, like it's very clear 1:01:41.560 --> 1:01:45.360 that like the way that Henry understands how to be 1:01:45.520 --> 1:01:50.760 in a relationship is with Muny, like is protecting with 1:01:50.960 --> 1:01:52.080 money and violence. 1:01:52.560 --> 1:01:54.320 Yeah, now, not an. 1:01:54.480 --> 1:01:59.200 Armchair psychologist, a person who doesn't exist, although actually Henry 1:01:59.240 --> 1:02:02.000 Hell did technically exist, but fictional Henry Hill. 1:02:02.240 --> 1:02:06.680 Now put yourself in the shoes of Lorraine Broco as 1:02:07.440 --> 1:02:13.080 the therapist in Sopranos, and please psychoanalyze. 1:02:12.240 --> 1:02:15.080 In a way I'm in my I'm in my Lorraine bag. 1:02:15.720 --> 1:02:19.720 But like you get the context you need for I mean, 1:02:19.760 --> 1:02:22.400 and he's a horrible person, and this doesn't excuse the behavior, 1:02:22.440 --> 1:02:24.760 but I like that you get the context for why 1:02:24.880 --> 1:02:28.320 Henry is such a piece of shit spouse. Also because 1:02:28.560 --> 1:02:32.320 he was physically abused by his own father, he grew 1:02:32.440 --> 1:02:36.000 up seeing his father be deeply resentful of his station 1:02:36.160 --> 1:02:39.280 and life class wise, and I think what you often 1:02:39.480 --> 1:02:44.000 see in households that and obviously not true across the board, 1:02:44.040 --> 1:02:47.120 but I feel like the story wants you to believe, like, Okay, well, 1:02:47.840 --> 1:02:51.440 you know, he grew up around violence, both with you know, 1:02:51.760 --> 1:02:54.480 wanting to be in the mob from the time he 1:02:54.560 --> 1:02:57.360 was a child, and also like he was just experienced 1:02:57.440 --> 1:03:00.880 violence in his home anyways. And so it's like, Okay, 1:03:01.000 --> 1:03:03.400 he's made this sort of quote unquote decision that he's 1:03:03.440 --> 1:03:05.880 not going to like die in the class he grew 1:03:06.000 --> 1:03:09.080 up in, even though that is kind of ultimately his fate, 1:03:09.160 --> 1:03:12.240 but whatever, right, But for a while, you know, he's like, Okay, 1:03:12.320 --> 1:03:16.120 how can I secure a partner by showing them I 1:03:16.240 --> 1:03:20.440 care by having money and being violent towards anyone who 1:03:21.000 --> 1:03:23.560 like is fucked up to them? Which is I thought 1:03:23.600 --> 1:03:28.120 that that having that scene where it's early in their 1:03:28.160 --> 1:03:33.560 relationship and Karen is very upset and she has been 1:03:34.160 --> 1:03:40.160 assaulted by her neighbor. And I mean it's like kind 1:03:40.200 --> 1:03:44.160 of an amazing scene. You may disagree with his methods, 1:03:44.200 --> 1:03:48.840 but I kind of don't like Henry, you know, goes 1:03:48.880 --> 1:03:50.960 across the street and like fucking wax him in the 1:03:51.000 --> 1:03:52.920 head over and over and over, and his stil whips 1:03:53.000 --> 1:03:56.280 the guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And then like that is 1:03:56.360 --> 1:03:59.400 his way of showing like he thinks like that is 1:03:59.480 --> 1:04:03.080 a showing love to Karen of like if you stay 1:04:03.160 --> 1:04:06.560 with me, these things will not happen to you, which 1:04:06.920 --> 1:04:10.360 you know, like in that time, there is value in that. 1:04:10.720 --> 1:04:14.680 I mean, women were conditioned to see value in a 1:04:14.840 --> 1:04:18.360 man who was like willing to fight to protect her. 1:04:18.560 --> 1:04:23.880 Like that's particularly in a like culture that abusing women 1:04:24.120 --> 1:04:27.600 physically was far more socially accepted than it was now 1:04:28.120 --> 1:04:29.960 right or than it is now and it's still, you know, 1:04:30.040 --> 1:04:34.000 pretty socially accepted. But yeah, like, I don't know, I 1:04:34.040 --> 1:04:36.240 feel like you're given the information you need to understand 1:04:36.280 --> 1:04:38.120 how she kind of ends up tangled in this. 1:04:39.280 --> 1:04:43.800 Right, there's that, and there's another scene told from her perspective. 1:04:44.160 --> 1:04:47.960 We hear her voice over again. It's after they've been 1:04:48.880 --> 1:04:52.919 married for a little while. But her voiceover says, after 1:04:52.960 --> 1:04:55.600 a while, it got to be all normal. None of 1:04:55.680 --> 1:04:59.040 it seemed like crime. It was more like Henry was enterprising. 1:04:59.480 --> 1:05:02.720 Our husband weren't brain surgeons. They were blue collar guys. 1:05:02.840 --> 1:05:04.800 The only way to make extra money was to go 1:05:04.920 --> 1:05:07.680 out and cut a few corners. We were all very close, 1:05:08.240 --> 1:05:10.880 never any outsiders around, and being together all the time 1:05:11.000 --> 1:05:13.760 made everything seem all the more normal. It got to 1:05:13.840 --> 1:05:15.840 where I was even proud that I had the kind 1:05:15.880 --> 1:05:17.880 of husband who was willing to go out and risk 1:05:17.960 --> 1:05:21.480 his neck just to get us the little extras. So 1:05:22.640 --> 1:05:25.520 she's touching on some interesting class stuff here number one. 1:05:25.920 --> 1:05:29.920 Number two, It like shows the logic of someone who 1:05:30.920 --> 1:05:36.240 who's like exposed to something that is not normal per se, 1:05:36.520 --> 1:05:40.200 but it becomes normal for her because you know, like 1:05:40.520 --> 1:05:43.800 involvement in the mob and organized crime isn't quote unquote 1:05:43.880 --> 1:05:47.600 normal like most people. You know, your average American person 1:05:47.800 --> 1:05:52.000 or family doesn't have exposure to that and would probably 1:05:52.120 --> 1:05:56.960 actively avoid mob stuff, right, But because of the like 1:05:57.120 --> 1:06:01.320 isolation and the just like repid of it, and her 1:06:01.400 --> 1:06:04.240 constant exposure to it, that's the over a period of years, 1:06:04.480 --> 1:06:08.120 over time, that's how things get normalized. So she's like 1:06:08.520 --> 1:06:14.439 speaking to her becoming acclimated to this lifestyle. Because again, 1:06:14.480 --> 1:06:17.400 that was something that I kept thinking about in when 1:06:17.560 --> 1:06:20.400 I was watching The Godfather, I was like, why would 1:06:20.520 --> 1:06:23.960 Kay like stick around, Like why don't we get any 1:06:24.080 --> 1:06:27.600 insight about this? But like here we have Karen saying 1:06:27.720 --> 1:06:30.640 like this is why I stuck around because it felt 1:06:30.720 --> 1:06:32.760 extremely normal. It got to be very. 1:06:32.760 --> 1:06:35.760 Normal, right, and it like became her community, and like 1:06:35.880 --> 1:06:38.000 you see how painful it is for her later when 1:06:38.600 --> 1:06:43.080 Henry's locked up and she loses that community because her 1:06:43.560 --> 1:06:46.720 value in her own community is decided by like the 1:06:46.800 --> 1:06:49.200 status of her husband, which is like you know, traumatic 1:06:49.280 --> 1:06:52.280 in itself. And I liked that, like before even before that, 1:06:52.600 --> 1:06:55.960 because I also loved that they just like take a 1:06:56.120 --> 1:06:59.440 moment and like it helps move the story forward in 1:06:59.560 --> 1:07:03.040 time to explain why she sticks around and how it 1:07:03.240 --> 1:07:05.600 begins to feel like this is just my life now. 1:07:05.840 --> 1:07:09.480 But you also see like two different scenes shortly after 1:07:09.600 --> 1:07:13.480 she gets married that she's like struggling with it, where 1:07:13.800 --> 1:07:17.840 you have first the scene with again, which is just 1:07:17.920 --> 1:07:20.640 like stuff that could actually like that's always like the 1:07:20.680 --> 1:07:22.960 weird thing about The Godfather, Like scenes that could have 1:07:23.080 --> 1:07:26.600 been in The Godfather, probably similar scenes with either k 1:07:26.840 --> 1:07:29.760 or well not Connie Connie grew up with the mob, 1:07:29.920 --> 1:07:32.080 but scenes that you could have seen, but they just 1:07:32.160 --> 1:07:35.760 really weren't interested in the character. But like with Karen, 1:07:35.800 --> 1:07:38.000 when it switches to her perspective, you see a scene 1:07:38.160 --> 1:07:41.520 with her parents shortly after they get married, because she 1:07:41.600 --> 1:07:45.640 gets in an argument with her mother, who is you know, 1:07:46.120 --> 1:07:49.800 making some pretty good points. I would say, Yeah, she's 1:07:50.000 --> 1:07:53.760 just like, you know, where is your husband? Like this 1:07:54.040 --> 1:07:56.520 is really fucked up, this is weird. Where's the at 1:07:56.640 --> 1:07:58.280 you guys just got married? What's going on? 1:07:58.480 --> 1:08:01.480 She says, what kind of people are the And Karen says, 1:08:02.040 --> 1:08:05.560 stay out of it, mom, you don't know how I feel, right, 1:08:05.720 --> 1:08:09.439 And and you're like, okay, these are things I said 1:08:09.440 --> 1:08:12.280 as a teenager. But yeah, sure, but I still think 1:08:12.320 --> 1:08:15.680 she's like supposed to be like twenty two, Like it's right. 1:08:15.760 --> 1:08:18.439 She's supposed to be pretty young, Like I don't know, 1:08:18.560 --> 1:08:21.479 it's weird, like, but also I can totally relate with 1:08:21.760 --> 1:08:27.240 like I don't know, like being in clearly a bad relationship, 1:08:27.600 --> 1:08:30.959 being called out on it and being like you don't understand, 1:08:31.160 --> 1:08:33.120 Like that was sort of how I read that scene 1:08:33.200 --> 1:08:36.160 is like she has made at this point a pretty 1:08:36.200 --> 1:08:40.439 permanent choice, especially in the sixties, of like she's gotten married, 1:08:40.560 --> 1:08:43.519 so like she's got to stand by this decision because 1:08:43.600 --> 1:08:47.080 what is the alternative? And on top of the like 1:08:47.680 --> 1:08:50.200 a lot of people, myself included, hate to hand it 1:08:50.280 --> 1:08:53.720 to their mom for being right about something, but like, yeah, 1:08:53.960 --> 1:08:55.880 like I did understand why she reacted that way, but 1:08:56.000 --> 1:08:58.320 that sucks, and like Karen is just like put in 1:08:58.400 --> 1:09:01.599 such a hard position, emotional all the time. Because it's 1:09:01.640 --> 1:09:03.840 like if Karen was able to, like I feel like 1:09:03.880 --> 1:09:05.960 in that moment, you know, if she didn't feel like 1:09:06.040 --> 1:09:08.360 she had to defend Henry and didn't have to defend 1:09:08.400 --> 1:09:11.519 her decision, like her mom could have helped her out. 1:09:11.720 --> 1:09:13.639 You know, like it seems like her parents want what's 1:09:13.680 --> 1:09:16.960 best for her and she loves them. And even though 1:09:17.000 --> 1:09:19.080 it's like it seems like her and her mom argue 1:09:19.240 --> 1:09:21.320 a lot, but like they love each other. It seems 1:09:21.360 --> 1:09:24.120 like a generally good relationship. But you see her struggle 1:09:24.160 --> 1:09:26.200 with that at the very beginning. And then you also 1:09:26.240 --> 1:09:29.720 see Henry be a bad husband for I guess the 1:09:29.800 --> 1:09:33.000 first time as a husband where he comes back and 1:09:33.080 --> 1:09:36.240 then he sees conflict, and he just turns around and leaves, 1:09:36.320 --> 1:09:39.160 like he doesn't you know, after Karen has spent this 1:09:39.240 --> 1:09:42.720 whole scene defending him right when he doesn't deserve it, 1:09:43.160 --> 1:09:46.000 he can't be there to support her for even a second. 1:09:46.080 --> 1:09:48.960 It's kind of a thing. And then you see the 1:09:49.000 --> 1:09:51.160 scene with the mob wives, which I would love to 1:09:51.200 --> 1:09:51.719 talk about. 1:09:52.080 --> 1:09:54.600 Yeah, another scene where we get the whole scene is 1:09:54.640 --> 1:09:57.439 told from Karen's point of view. We get her voice 1:09:57.479 --> 1:10:00.800 over some more. She's like, yeah, I that we weren't 1:10:01.000 --> 1:10:04.640 married to you know, nine to five guys, but it 1:10:04.760 --> 1:10:06.920 wasn't until I hung out with the other wives that 1:10:07.000 --> 1:10:12.400 I realized how different things were. And she's like hurling 1:10:12.560 --> 1:10:15.320 some criticisms towards them, which. 1:10:15.240 --> 1:10:18.320 Like she does make it about their looks in a 1:10:18.400 --> 1:10:22.519 way that yeah is I mean, look, Karen is a 1:10:22.600 --> 1:10:25.560 flawed character, sure there so I think that there's like 1:10:25.960 --> 1:10:30.200 moments where it's interesting because it's like Karen can be 1:10:30.439 --> 1:10:36.160 pretty judgmental towards and cruel to other women, but in general, 1:10:36.439 --> 1:10:40.000 it's nothing that she wouldn't also say or do to 1:10:40.160 --> 1:10:43.080 a man. I was finding where like, I mean, this 1:10:43.200 --> 1:10:46.200 comes up more in like the Janice storyline right, so 1:10:46.320 --> 1:10:48.400 we'll get there, but like I did feel like it 1:10:48.600 --> 1:10:52.160 was she wasn't wrong to you know, especially at the 1:10:52.200 --> 1:10:55.840 point she's at, like it's almost like she's looking into 1:10:55.960 --> 1:10:59.360 what could be her future of like which we find 1:10:59.400 --> 1:11:02.360 out is kind of her future of. Like this violence 1:11:02.439 --> 1:11:05.479 is very normalized. It's something you can talk about openly 1:11:05.560 --> 1:11:08.439 in a community setting, Like it's something you have to 1:11:08.560 --> 1:11:10.320 deal with in your day to day life if you're 1:11:10.400 --> 1:11:16.160 married to someone like doing crime all the time, right. 1:11:16.360 --> 1:11:19.920 And her main takeaway from that scene is like when 1:11:19.920 --> 1:11:23.160 she goes back home and is talking to Henry, she's like, 1:11:23.760 --> 1:11:26.280 what if you went to jail? Because she heard, you know, 1:11:26.360 --> 1:11:29.439 the other wives talking about how some of their husbands 1:11:29.479 --> 1:11:33.080 are arrested, like got arrested and are in jail, and 1:11:33.200 --> 1:11:35.400 so she's expressing concern about like, you know, what would 1:11:35.400 --> 1:11:37.320 happen if you went to prison? Like what would that 1:11:37.439 --> 1:11:41.439 mean for me? And like what like, right, the stakes 1:11:41.439 --> 1:11:43.880 are very high, Henry, and he's just like, don't worry 1:11:43.920 --> 1:11:46.920 about it, and then he says something very racist and yeah, 1:11:46.960 --> 1:11:50.400 but he's basically like, you know, addressing her concerns. But 1:11:50.800 --> 1:11:54.760 the fact that she even has concerns is like, again, 1:11:54.840 --> 1:11:56.320 more than The Godfather ever did. 1:11:56.720 --> 1:12:01.240 Absolutely like it's it's so yeah, and we'll talk about 1:12:01.240 --> 1:12:04.479 this movie is racism in a bit, yeah, but again 1:12:04.520 --> 1:12:09.840 it's like so not just good for the genre of 1:12:09.920 --> 1:12:13.400 mob movies that's so male dominated and like male perspective dominated, 1:12:13.560 --> 1:12:16.200 but also just like good for the storytelling of the 1:12:16.320 --> 1:12:18.760 movie that we get these scenes with her, because it's 1:12:18.840 --> 1:12:23.000 like I feel like for Karen, as much as a 1:12:23.080 --> 1:12:25.599 lot of guys would like to think their Henry Hill, 1:12:25.680 --> 1:12:28.839 I feel like most of us are coming in Karen 1:12:29.280 --> 1:12:32.240 to this movie like you don't know what you would 1:12:32.360 --> 1:12:35.360 do in that situation, Like you're fucking kidding yourself if 1:12:35.400 --> 1:12:37.679 you think you just know what you would do, you don't. 1:12:38.200 --> 1:12:41.679 And like seeing Karen have to grapple with that directly, 1:12:42.040 --> 1:12:43.760 and I do want to quote what she says. It's 1:12:43.840 --> 1:12:46.720 pretty it's pretty aggressive towards the other women. They had 1:12:46.760 --> 1:12:48.880 bad skin and too much makeup. I mean, they didn't 1:12:48.880 --> 1:12:52.400 look very good. They looked beat up, a bit aggressive. 1:12:52.840 --> 1:12:55.519 But it's like keeping in mind that she's coming from 1:12:55.640 --> 1:13:00.320 like a pretty Again, it's like boring isn't the right word, 1:13:00.400 --> 1:13:03.959 but like she's from a pretty ordinary, like middle class background, 1:13:04.160 --> 1:13:07.360 like she's not used to seeing women who look or 1:13:07.479 --> 1:13:11.160 talk like this, and she's being you know, judgy in 1:13:11.240 --> 1:13:14.000 her head. But then yeah, like she always like will 1:13:14.240 --> 1:13:18.040 express her concern to Henry, at least in the beginning, 1:13:18.800 --> 1:13:21.760 because it seems like she's going into this relationship thinking 1:13:21.840 --> 1:13:24.720 that they are mostly equals or as much as you 1:13:24.920 --> 1:13:28.880 could be at this time. But he's just like a liar. 1:13:29.160 --> 1:13:30.040 He's a bad fella. 1:13:30.560 --> 1:13:32.400 He's a bad fella, I mean, and he's cocky. 1:13:32.479 --> 1:13:34.040 I mean, I do believe he thinks he'll never go 1:13:34.160 --> 1:13:37.120 to jail in that scene. Oh yea, but that like 1:13:37.280 --> 1:13:40.360 sets I mean, which there's this shot later in the 1:13:40.400 --> 1:13:43.080 movie that I was just like, is so good or 1:13:43.200 --> 1:13:45.960 like made me think back to that scene when it's 1:13:46.000 --> 1:13:48.000 like the scene where Henry's about to go to jail 1:13:48.360 --> 1:13:51.000 and he's like at the bar like talking to all 1:13:51.040 --> 1:13:52.920 the people he's about to go to jail with, and 1:13:53.080 --> 1:13:54.920 she's sitting in the background of the scene and she's 1:13:55.000 --> 1:13:56.880 just like looking at him like she wants to snap 1:13:56.960 --> 1:13:59.920 his fucking neck because like now she has to raise 1:14:00.640 --> 1:14:04.080 their kids two kids, yeah, on her own for ten 1:14:04.240 --> 1:14:06.600 years or however long he's in fucking jail for and 1:14:06.720 --> 1:14:08.840 it's just I just like thought back to that scene 1:14:09.360 --> 1:14:11.479 off of like she doesn't even say anything in that scene, 1:14:11.520 --> 1:14:13.040 but just that one shot is like, Oh, yeah, he 1:14:13.800 --> 1:14:16.519 you know, full of shit, promised you he was never 1:14:16.600 --> 1:14:18.640 going to go to jail. There's no way, and now 1:14:18.720 --> 1:14:20.600 you have to raise two kids by yourself for the 1:14:20.680 --> 1:14:25.160 better part of a decade. It's just like, oh my Karen, 1:14:25.280 --> 1:14:26.160 my sweet Karen. 1:14:27.680 --> 1:14:30.240 Yeah. And then one of the things, and maybe this 1:14:30.320 --> 1:14:32.800 is a whole separate discussion, but one of the things 1:14:32.840 --> 1:14:38.840 I appreciate about this movie, and you could make the 1:14:39.080 --> 1:14:42.719 argument that perhaps not enough was done in this regard 1:14:42.880 --> 1:14:46.960 either as far as like the movie leveling criticism against 1:14:47.479 --> 1:14:53.280 this lifestyle and the people in it and their horrible 1:14:53.360 --> 1:14:57.840 behavior and toxicity and all that stuff, because you know, 1:14:58.080 --> 1:15:01.240 hearing what a lot of the fans I have to say, 1:15:01.320 --> 1:15:07.960 it doesn't seem like they necessarily recognize the criticism all 1:15:08.040 --> 1:15:11.160 the time. But you know, I think that this movie 1:15:11.280 --> 1:15:15.960 does more to offer a critical commentary, you know, on 1:15:16.040 --> 1:15:18.600 the horrible things that they do, more so than The 1:15:18.680 --> 1:15:21.680 Godfather for sure. And one of the ways they do 1:15:21.800 --> 1:15:26.000 that is to show how horribly these men treat women. Yes, 1:15:26.479 --> 1:15:30.840 they are abusive, to women in every imaginable way. There's 1:15:30.880 --> 1:15:34.880 a scene that really struck me, and it's a quick moment, 1:15:34.960 --> 1:15:36.640 but they're at a Christmas party and. 1:15:37.439 --> 1:15:40.720 Listening and they're probably it's the only My only note 1:15:40.840 --> 1:15:44.840 is like they're not listening to Joe Peshi's album, which 1:15:44.880 --> 1:15:47.240 is so weird because I'm pretty sure he's at the 1:15:47.520 --> 1:15:51.120 party so he could just kind of start performing it. 1:15:51.400 --> 1:15:54.920 But whatever, he should karayoke his own song. 1:15:55.520 --> 1:15:57.280 But anyways, yes, Christmas. 1:15:56.960 --> 1:16:01.240 Party, right, Christmas party. Tommy has a girlfriend. I don't 1:16:01.240 --> 1:16:03.160 think we ever learned her name, and that might be 1:16:03.240 --> 1:16:06.360 the only scene we see her in. But Tommy says 1:16:06.360 --> 1:16:09.040 something to her like he's like, I gotta go over here. 1:16:09.400 --> 1:16:12.880 Don't look at anybody else, like don't basically saying don't 1:16:12.880 --> 1:16:16.120 look at any other men. And then she turns to 1:16:16.680 --> 1:16:20.040 the woman beside her and says, oh, he's so jealous. 1:16:20.240 --> 1:16:22.519 If I even look at someone else, he'll kill me. 1:16:22.680 --> 1:16:26.200 But her tone is very much like isn't it amazing 1:16:26.280 --> 1:16:28.479 how much he loves me and cares about me? And 1:16:28.560 --> 1:16:32.519 then the other woman responds with that's great, and like 1:16:32.680 --> 1:16:35.679 it's clear satire, you know, or it's just like clear 1:16:35.840 --> 1:16:39.840 like you're meant to watch this and like be horrified 1:16:40.080 --> 1:16:44.439 by their reactions to this, And again it's not the 1:16:44.680 --> 1:16:49.320 women's fault. Like women have historically been conditioned to feel 1:16:49.360 --> 1:16:53.720 this way about what a man's love and affection is 1:16:53.800 --> 1:16:57.720 supposed to look like. Right, So they're just responding to 1:16:57.880 --> 1:17:02.479 societal conditioning. But the movie is presenting this information as like, 1:17:03.080 --> 1:17:07.840 and isn't that horrible? Like that that's horrible for these 1:17:08.000 --> 1:17:12.639 women being so mistreated and abused by these men. 1:17:12.640 --> 1:17:16.080 Right, and and like that is what your conditioned to 1:17:16.160 --> 1:17:19.120 believe love looks like, which is a lot of like 1:17:19.560 --> 1:17:23.160 Karen's early stuff as well, Like exactly I was I 1:17:23.200 --> 1:17:26.000 think that the girlfriends are generally I actually was like 1:17:26.400 --> 1:17:29.240 not when the girlfriends were first introduced. I was sort 1:17:29.280 --> 1:17:32.040 of like, oh, no, are we about to just get 1:17:32.200 --> 1:17:35.080 like a bunch of like poorly written like bimbo stereo 1:17:35.200 --> 1:17:38.280 type characters, because I feel like the girlfriend quote unquote 1:17:38.320 --> 1:17:42.320 is often written that way. But again, Nick and Marty, 1:17:42.880 --> 1:17:46.560 they they give you I mean, and I think that, 1:17:46.720 --> 1:17:49.320 like I totally agree that that moment you just described 1:17:49.320 --> 1:17:51.800 at the Christmas party was like a pretty solid like 1:17:51.920 --> 1:17:55.160 moment of satire. And then I mean we don't need 1:17:55.200 --> 1:17:57.160 to pivot into this discussion all the way yet. But 1:17:57.400 --> 1:18:02.600 like Janice, who's Henry Is girlfriend who ends up it 1:18:02.720 --> 1:18:05.880 ends up becoming serious enough that he gets her an apartment. 1:18:06.520 --> 1:18:09.120 She sort of there's like kind of this secondary social 1:18:09.200 --> 1:18:13.400 scene that seems relegated strictly to people that know that 1:18:13.479 --> 1:18:16.840 they are the girlfriend of a married mobster. And you know, 1:18:17.000 --> 1:18:19.599 Karen is kept completely away from this world, even though 1:18:19.640 --> 1:18:22.360 she's well aware it exists and is getting increasingly upset 1:18:22.360 --> 1:18:24.720 about it. But I sort of was like, oh, is 1:18:24.840 --> 1:18:27.280 Jana's just going to be written off as like the 1:18:27.320 --> 1:18:32.479 bimbo stereotype and again justice for Bimbo's Bimbo's rule. But 1:18:32.960 --> 1:18:36.320 again you do get not as much inside. I think 1:18:36.400 --> 1:18:40.360 that there could have been more space for Janis in 1:18:40.439 --> 1:18:43.120 this story, and she does kind of like she's referenced 1:18:43.520 --> 1:18:45.560 a few other times, but she never really like she 1:18:45.600 --> 1:18:47.800 doesn't come back in a meaningful way. But you do 1:18:48.040 --> 1:18:53.640 get like a moment of insight into her struggle and 1:18:53.760 --> 1:18:57.160 her predicament in this story where you get the part 1:18:57.320 --> 1:18:59.920 of like, I mean, Henry uses the exact same time 1:19:00.760 --> 1:19:03.639 with Janie as he did with Karen, where he provides 1:19:03.720 --> 1:19:06.200 for her financially, and then when she gets in trouble 1:19:06.240 --> 1:19:08.120 at work, he beats the shit out of somebody because 1:19:08.120 --> 1:19:10.080 that's the only way he knows how to show love, 1:19:10.200 --> 1:19:14.599 because he's a broken person. So she already is kind 1:19:14.600 --> 1:19:20.280 of set up with the same degree of emotional abuse 1:19:20.400 --> 1:19:23.080 to some extent and or just at least control aspects 1:19:23.200 --> 1:19:27.320 that Karen is on top of knowing that she is 1:19:27.920 --> 1:19:34.120 supposed to be a secret and that scene between her 1:19:34.200 --> 1:19:37.080 and Karen, even though they never like speak face to face, 1:19:37.320 --> 1:19:39.519 and this doesn't pass the Bechel test because it's I mean, 1:19:39.560 --> 1:19:41.599 does it pass the Bechel tests with Karen yelling at 1:19:41.600 --> 1:19:44.600 you and you're just crying in your apartment afraid? I 1:19:44.680 --> 1:19:49.360 don't think so. But it's a meaningful interaction where Karen 1:19:50.040 --> 1:19:53.120 and this is like, you know, I just think, well, 1:19:53.320 --> 1:19:55.560 we'll get to this in a second. But like Karen is, 1:19:56.200 --> 1:19:59.120 you know, trying to scare and intimidate janis out of 1:19:59.560 --> 1:20:03.360 associa with Henry. Ever again, she's saying horrible things about her. 1:20:03.479 --> 1:20:06.400 She's threatening to tell the landlord that I quote unquote 1:20:06.439 --> 1:20:10.120 Whoror is living at this house, like she's sledshaming her. 1:20:10.160 --> 1:20:12.240 She's calling her horrible names, and Janie is just like 1:20:12.320 --> 1:20:16.680 sitting upstairs miserable in this house. That the only other 1:20:16.720 --> 1:20:18.639 time we've seen her in this house, she's been she's 1:20:18.640 --> 1:20:21.120 just like showing it off. She's like, Henry loves me 1:20:21.240 --> 1:20:23.479 so much, we have set so much sex here, blah 1:20:23.520 --> 1:20:25.920 blah blah. But then the only other time you see her, 1:20:26.200 --> 1:20:30.200 she's completely alone and she's scared and she's miserable, and 1:20:31.080 --> 1:20:33.600 it's sad, Like it's sad. That scene makes me so 1:20:33.800 --> 1:20:36.439 sad for both of those characters because it's the sort 1:20:36.439 --> 1:20:39.520 of thing where it's just like women need to unionize, 1:20:40.520 --> 1:20:44.680 like go upstairs, have a talk with Janie, and then 1:20:44.960 --> 1:20:47.240 both of you guys go kill Henry, you know, like 1:20:47.439 --> 1:20:50.320 let's get let's let's whack Henry. I understand why that 1:20:50.400 --> 1:20:52.599 doesn't happen in the movie, but like would have been fun. 1:20:53.080 --> 1:20:57.080 But Karen comes close to killing him or thinks about 1:20:57.120 --> 1:20:58.120 killing him, because. 1:20:57.840 --> 1:21:00.240 She's like Henry wasn't the star of the movie. I 1:21:00.280 --> 1:21:01.519 thought she would have done it right. 1:21:02.200 --> 1:21:08.280 So there's the scene where's Karen knows about Henry's infidelity. 1:21:09.240 --> 1:21:14.160 He's been neglecting her needs. He's just been a bad husband, 1:21:15.040 --> 1:21:19.519 and so you wonder why might Karen stay with him? 1:21:20.400 --> 1:21:24.280 And the movie offers us insight into that too, where 1:21:25.160 --> 1:21:27.559 she's pointing a gun at his face, and then her 1:21:27.600 --> 1:21:30.160 voiceover says like, you know, how could I hurt him? 1:21:30.200 --> 1:21:32.920 I couldn't even bring myself to leave him. The truth was, 1:21:33.080 --> 1:21:35.040 no matter how bad I felt, I was still very 1:21:35.080 --> 1:21:38.519 attracted to him. Why should I give him to someone else? 1:21:38.640 --> 1:21:43.080 Why should she win? And again that's like that feels 1:21:43.160 --> 1:21:47.160 like a simplification of what's going on, but you can imagine, 1:21:47.240 --> 1:21:50.000 like what's actually going on beneath the surface is like 1:21:50.400 --> 1:21:54.240 she is an abused spouse, and that takes a toll 1:21:54.520 --> 1:21:57.720 on people, and it seems like a lot of the 1:21:58.120 --> 1:22:01.920 abuse he's leveling at her is like you need me, 1:22:02.240 --> 1:22:05.560 like you, I'm the source of income here, Like what 1:22:05.680 --> 1:22:09.240 would you do without me? She needs his support the 1:22:09.320 --> 1:22:12.680 way that a lot of abused women in a relationship 1:22:12.920 --> 1:22:16.519 needs some form of support that their spouse is offering. 1:22:16.680 --> 1:22:19.719 And unfortunately in the same way that like Janice needs 1:22:19.760 --> 1:22:25.080 the support, right, yeah, I mean and that like that interiornary. 1:22:25.200 --> 1:22:27.360 So yeah, like she goes back and you really do 1:22:27.560 --> 1:22:32.040 think she might kill Henry, but also she knows, first 1:22:32.040 --> 1:22:34.240 of all, I do think that she loves him, which 1:22:34.680 --> 1:22:39.120 always makes being an abused partner that too, even worse. Yeah, 1:22:39.479 --> 1:22:41.560 but on top of that, like like you're saying, like 1:22:41.760 --> 1:22:46.280 if she kills him, everyone loses, Like she has to 1:22:46.320 --> 1:22:49.040 think of her children because her husband certainly isn't right. 1:22:49.240 --> 1:22:51.680 She has to think of herself, you know. And it's 1:22:51.720 --> 1:22:56.160 like if Henry's gone, how are they gonna survive? Even 1:22:56.240 --> 1:22:59.599 if they are generally happier, probably in the short term, 1:22:59.640 --> 1:23:03.080 but the long term, you know. And I understand, But 1:23:03.200 --> 1:23:05.759 also I do love that because when that scene happens 1:23:05.800 --> 1:23:09.680 between Karen and Janis, I was like, Okay, even if 1:23:10.160 --> 1:23:12.600 in the dynamics of this movie, I don't think that 1:23:12.760 --> 1:23:15.040 that is like, I don't think it was a thoughtless 1:23:15.200 --> 1:23:17.040 choice to have her do that, because I think showing, 1:23:17.160 --> 1:23:19.120 you know, an abused woman at the end of her rope, 1:23:19.760 --> 1:23:23.439 I think very often you see trying to phrase this 1:23:23.640 --> 1:23:28.040 correctly or like, but like, you know, how turning women 1:23:28.160 --> 1:23:31.960 on women in movies is a well worn trope, but 1:23:32.120 --> 1:23:37.160 it is based in something that is real and something 1:23:37.200 --> 1:23:39.360 that I like that women are so often put in 1:23:39.439 --> 1:23:42.160 competition with each other because we're conditioned to believe there's 1:23:42.240 --> 1:23:44.800 only room for so many and so. 1:23:45.120 --> 1:23:48.040 As we've discussed a number of times on the show. 1:23:48.160 --> 1:23:50.920 Right and so like that on top of the fact 1:23:51.000 --> 1:23:54.080 that she is already in this horrible relationship and now 1:23:54.200 --> 1:23:56.680 she's finding out that there's another person that she's been 1:23:56.720 --> 1:23:59.400 lied to about repeatedly. I understand, you know, and she 1:23:59.560 --> 1:24:03.880 has so little power in her relationship that of course, 1:24:04.040 --> 1:24:06.600 in her mind, it makes more sense to go to 1:24:07.080 --> 1:24:09.880 the only person who has less power than her in 1:24:09.960 --> 1:24:14.719 this dynamic, like, regardless of the gender of the person. 1:24:15.000 --> 1:24:16.720 I was like, it makes sense that she goes and 1:24:17.080 --> 1:24:19.519 tries to rip Janis's head off because she feels like 1:24:19.600 --> 1:24:21.560 she can't go to Henry. But then she does go 1:24:21.680 --> 1:24:24.439 to Henry and she almost blows his head off, And 1:24:24.520 --> 1:24:26.800 you're just like, well, that's what I mean when I 1:24:26.800 --> 1:24:29.559 say it's like, yeah, Janis like is not always kind 1:24:29.600 --> 1:24:32.720 to women, but like she's got enough rage to like 1:24:32.920 --> 1:24:36.160 spread around a fucking everybody like it. It doesn't seem 1:24:36.240 --> 1:24:39.800 like she has a particular issue with women. She's just 1:24:40.160 --> 1:24:42.280 like she's just surrounded by issues and that. 1:24:42.760 --> 1:24:45.200 Oh, so you said Janie, but you mean Karen. 1:24:45.280 --> 1:24:46.920 Oh sorry, I mean I mean Karen. I mean Karen 1:24:46.960 --> 1:24:49.439 Kah yeah, yeah, yeah. Karen goes after Janis because Janis 1:24:49.439 --> 1:24:51.760 has less power than her, right, and Karen needs to 1:24:51.840 --> 1:24:54.200 feel like she has some sort of control over her life. 1:24:55.280 --> 1:24:58.080 And then she goes to Henry to try to wrest 1:24:58.200 --> 1:25:00.920 some control back from him, but she can't and she 1:25:01.040 --> 1:25:04.000 sort of knows that, and he definitely knows that, and 1:25:04.080 --> 1:25:06.320 so then he ends up beating her down anyways and 1:25:06.960 --> 1:25:09.559 intimidating her even more because he knows that he holds 1:25:09.640 --> 1:25:12.680 all the power in this relationship and that is like 1:25:13.640 --> 1:25:17.880 what abusers do, and it just like it's upsetting to 1:25:18.000 --> 1:25:22.280 watch play out, but it felt like everything made sense 1:25:22.400 --> 1:25:26.280 and I honestly like wasn't expecting the movie to like 1:25:26.479 --> 1:25:28.880 let Karen shove a gun in his face like that 1:25:29.080 --> 1:25:32.360 was like really cathartic and cool. And even though she 1:25:32.520 --> 1:25:37.000 quote unquote loses that and he does continue to cheat 1:25:37.040 --> 1:25:38.799 on her because the only time you hear about Janis 1:25:38.800 --> 1:25:41.880 again is when you find out that she's visiting him 1:25:42.040 --> 1:25:42.760 in prison. 1:25:42.880 --> 1:25:47.479 Right, and then she you know, rightfully calls Henrielle being like, look, 1:25:47.560 --> 1:25:49.720 I'm the one smuggling in all this crap for you, 1:25:49.960 --> 1:25:53.120 Like let her be the one who's raising your kids 1:25:53.240 --> 1:25:56.040 and smuggling all this shit in like, I'm doing all 1:25:56.160 --> 1:26:03.080 this labor emotional and HOWLD and otherwise for you, and 1:26:03.200 --> 1:26:08.000 you're giving me no gratitude and you're receiving visits from 1:26:08.240 --> 1:26:10.920 your girlfriend. And she's like very rightfully extremely pissed off. 1:26:11.000 --> 1:26:13.880 And she also says in that like in that scene, 1:26:14.000 --> 1:26:18.040 that she's like, also, no one talks to me anymore, 1:26:18.200 --> 1:26:22.639 Like she's lost her whole community because of how fucking 1:26:23.240 --> 1:26:28.519 sloppy and bad at his job. Fucking Henry is like, yeah, 1:26:28.840 --> 1:26:31.400 he's not even good at being a good fella. He's 1:26:31.640 --> 1:26:35.840 sad at being a good fella. Yeah, like I. And 1:26:36.080 --> 1:26:39.519 so she does get to get those moments, and then eventually, 1:26:39.720 --> 1:26:42.840 you know, after twenty five years, she fucking leaves him, 1:26:43.360 --> 1:26:46.640 and so it is like it's I don't know, I 1:26:46.800 --> 1:26:49.320 just I love that we get so much of her. 1:26:49.520 --> 1:26:52.360 And I know that, you know, not everyone is gonna 1:26:52.439 --> 1:26:57.640 love her character, but I think a woman of her generation, 1:26:57.920 --> 1:27:02.880 in her predicament, get in insights into what she was 1:27:02.960 --> 1:27:05.920 going through, into what the pressures on her were, and 1:27:06.080 --> 1:27:08.920 getting to see her fuck up. I just like thought 1:27:08.920 --> 1:27:11.760 it was really cool because I think the only thing 1:27:11.960 --> 1:27:14.439 about Karen that I was just like, Okay, I mean, 1:27:14.680 --> 1:27:19.519 obviously being cruel to Janice was not necessary, but I 1:27:19.920 --> 1:27:22.000 can't bring myself to judge her too harshly for it. 1:27:22.120 --> 1:27:24.439 I just wish that they had been in a social 1:27:25.000 --> 1:27:27.360 climate that would have encouraged them to talk to each other, 1:27:27.600 --> 1:27:29.599 because friends always get better when women. 1:27:29.439 --> 1:27:33.840 Talk to each other. Too, because she had grown accustomed 1:27:33.920 --> 1:27:39.880 to the mob life, which is riddled with violence, like her, now, 1:27:40.080 --> 1:27:42.880 her go to response to something is to respond with 1:27:43.120 --> 1:27:48.400 violence because, as she says in her voiceover, that became 1:27:48.479 --> 1:27:52.879 normal to her. So right, yeah, she responds to Janice 1:27:53.040 --> 1:27:55.759 and Henry with threats of violence. 1:27:56.160 --> 1:27:58.639 She's a she's a better good fellow than Harry. 1:27:59.280 --> 1:28:00.960 Uh but true. 1:28:01.280 --> 1:28:03.400 But the only, the only, but my my only like 1:28:03.640 --> 1:28:05.680 thing about And I don't think that the movie is 1:28:05.720 --> 1:28:08.160 like endorsing this behavior. It just like made me sad 1:28:08.400 --> 1:28:13.400 to see. Was how when Karen is in moments of 1:28:13.640 --> 1:28:18.120 like feeling desperate and needing to rest control back from 1:28:18.680 --> 1:28:23.400 Henry to some degree, she is not above weaponizing her 1:28:23.439 --> 1:28:26.920 own children. And that, like, I think that the movie 1:28:27.040 --> 1:28:29.760 is like very well aware that that's what she's doing, 1:28:29.840 --> 1:28:33.680 because there's that moment where it's like one shot but 1:28:33.800 --> 1:28:37.160 it's in the scene where Karen is first yelling at 1:28:37.439 --> 1:28:39.879 Henry about the fact that he clearly has a girlfriend, 1:28:40.640 --> 1:28:43.080 and you just get this long shot of their like 1:28:43.280 --> 1:28:46.880 three year old daughter watching this whole thing play out, 1:28:47.080 --> 1:28:50.000 and it's like, okay. So the movie also, unlike The 1:28:50.080 --> 1:28:55.919 Godfather again, is interested in how this really toxic, horrible 1:28:56.280 --> 1:28:58.960 relationship dynamic is going to affect their children, because of 1:28:59.000 --> 1:29:02.080 course it is. And then you see later when when 1:29:02.200 --> 1:29:04.880 Karen shows up at Janii's place, she brings both of 1:29:04.920 --> 1:29:08.560 her daughters. I think sort of as ponds to demonstrate like, 1:29:09.000 --> 1:29:11.280 this is why you need to get out of my life. 1:29:11.680 --> 1:29:14.160 He has children, you need to get the fuck away. 1:29:14.960 --> 1:29:17.680 And I think also, you know, unfortunately, I think in 1:29:17.760 --> 1:29:20.080 this genre sometimes why you would have children around is 1:29:20.160 --> 1:29:23.599 to like make sure a violent confrontation doesn't take place. 1:29:24.960 --> 1:29:27.880 So yeah, I like I think that that was like 1:29:28.240 --> 1:29:31.080 fucked up of Karen. If I was, if I was 1:29:31.120 --> 1:29:33.640 their kids, I would it would probably be coming up 1:29:33.720 --> 1:29:34.439 in therapy for. 1:29:34.560 --> 1:29:42.520 Me a bit again, therapy with with Karen. In the Sopranos. Sopranos, 1:29:42.760 --> 1:29:43.120 I don't know. 1:29:44.760 --> 1:29:46.880 Her name is their character's name is Jennifer in the show, 1:29:46.960 --> 1:29:50.040 but like, but in any case, like you can see 1:29:50.200 --> 1:29:53.680 how again I feel like, but I as much as 1:29:53.760 --> 1:29:56.519 that is bad for the fictional children, I think that 1:29:56.600 --> 1:30:01.000 that is a cool grounded choice by the movie to 1:30:01.160 --> 1:30:04.960 demonstrate a woman who feels she has no other option, 1:30:05.800 --> 1:30:08.599 and like, it doesn't make it morally okay, I don't 1:30:08.600 --> 1:30:10.240 think in the eyes of the movie either, because the 1:30:10.320 --> 1:30:13.519 movie will draw your attention to the kids several times 1:30:13.680 --> 1:30:16.880 when their parents are fighting to make it clear it's like, yeah, 1:30:17.000 --> 1:30:21.040 kids obviously fucking notice their little sponges. But I think 1:30:21.080 --> 1:30:24.120 it's like, I thought it was a good choice to 1:30:24.280 --> 1:30:27.760 do that with Karen in that she's not the like 1:30:28.720 --> 1:30:33.439 selfless perfect mother character that we I think we'll often 1:30:33.560 --> 1:30:37.400 see in underwritten female characters, Like she's like not a 1:30:37.520 --> 1:30:40.679 perfect mother's She's not. I don't think she's a bad parent, 1:30:40.800 --> 1:30:44.519 but like, she's not a perfect mother, and you can 1:30:44.720 --> 1:30:48.400 still as if you were really love and empathize with 1:30:48.560 --> 1:30:51.920 her even though that is like clear, Yeah, I. 1:30:52.000 --> 1:30:57.719 Agree, Karen Gulls. I want to share a quote from 1:30:58.320 --> 1:31:01.880 a review about this movie from The New York Times 1:31:02.040 --> 1:31:05.639 published when it came out so nineteen ninety by Susan Linfield, 1:31:06.360 --> 1:31:10.479 entitled Goodfella's looks at the banality of mob life. It 1:31:11.479 --> 1:31:16.920 is speaking about the actor who plays Karen. So quote, 1:31:17.760 --> 1:31:21.240 Miss Brocco, despite having known mister de Niro and mister 1:31:21.320 --> 1:31:25.839 Scorsese for years through her husband, the actor Harvey Kitel, 1:31:26.800 --> 1:31:30.759 says she found the shoot an emotionally difficult one because 1:31:30.800 --> 1:31:34.479 she was playing the lone woman character in a very brutal, 1:31:35.000 --> 1:31:39.719 very male world. And then this review shares a quote 1:31:39.760 --> 1:31:43.360 from Lorraine Bronco that goes as follows, if I didn't 1:31:43.360 --> 1:31:45.920 make my work important, it would probably end up on 1:31:46.040 --> 1:31:48.800 the cutting room floor. Marty said to me, I know 1:31:49.160 --> 1:31:52.800 you think I only make men's movies, but I really 1:31:52.880 --> 1:31:56.240 love this character Karen. But I think if push came 1:31:56.320 --> 1:31:59.760 to shove, if the performance wasn't there, he would have 1:32:00.479 --> 1:32:04.000 the film more to Ray and the boys. So I 1:32:04.200 --> 1:32:08.360 felt a little bit of extra pressure on me. So 1:32:08.800 --> 1:32:13.080 totally see her, like concerns are not unfounded, Like yeah, 1:32:13.120 --> 1:32:17.559 I mean so obviously she's just speaking to how as 1:32:18.400 --> 1:32:21.760 the one female character in the movie, she felt all 1:32:21.800 --> 1:32:26.759 this extra pressure to like, if I don't do an incredible, amazing, 1:32:26.880 --> 1:32:31.679 fantastic job, my part is in danger of like being 1:32:32.280 --> 1:32:35.040 scaled way back on and like cut out of the narrative, 1:32:35.040 --> 1:32:36.920 because you hear that all the time, where like an 1:32:37.000 --> 1:32:39.400 actor is in a movie but then they're like, whoops, 1:32:39.439 --> 1:32:41.880 they cut my scenes, so I'm actually not in the movie. 1:32:43.080 --> 1:32:46.599 And that's something that like, I mean, women have discussed, 1:32:46.880 --> 1:32:49.160 you know, dealing with all the time, people of color 1:32:49.240 --> 1:32:52.760 have discussed dealing like the pressure to be the absolute 1:32:52.840 --> 1:32:56.559 best at a thing, to just be on the same 1:32:56.720 --> 1:32:59.920 level as like cis hat white men who are pretty 1:33:00.280 --> 1:33:04.720 you know, I'm not calling Robert your own raliota mediocre, but. 1:33:04.920 --> 1:33:06.720 Like what if you were, though, that would be wild, 1:33:07.880 --> 1:33:09.960 but like some fucking chumps, But. 1:33:10.200 --> 1:33:13.559 Just like the pressure to like give like two hundred 1:33:13.720 --> 1:33:18.240 percent because marginalized people have to put in so much 1:33:18.360 --> 1:33:21.320 more effort to prove that they are just as talented 1:33:21.840 --> 1:33:26.519 and to be taken as seriously as their straight white 1:33:26.560 --> 1:33:28.920 guy counterparts, right, And I think that. 1:33:29.080 --> 1:33:33.880 Like honestly, like in the context of that, there is 1:33:34.760 --> 1:33:36.840 and this does kind of tie back to this, So 1:33:37.000 --> 1:33:38.800 I feel like that is like symptomatic of a bunch 1:33:38.800 --> 1:33:41.439 of things where at first is like, oh, yeah, that 1:33:41.680 --> 1:33:45.759 happens a lot when there's like one female character basically 1:33:46.000 --> 1:33:49.160 or like one non white character where it's like all 1:33:49.240 --> 1:33:52.560 of the pressure is on you and you know, and 1:33:52.680 --> 1:33:55.479 I can't speak to like what these specific filmmakers think, 1:33:55.520 --> 1:33:59.280 but I feel like inherently they are aware that their 1:33:59.439 --> 1:34:03.000 target audience is not as interested in Karen as they 1:34:03.080 --> 1:34:08.559 are in Henry, and so it's easier to make those cuts. 1:34:08.680 --> 1:34:12.800 And already there's kind of this, you know, at least 1:34:12.960 --> 1:34:18.200 tokenizing adjacent effect to how Lorraine Broco is in this movie. 1:34:18.439 --> 1:34:20.120 And I feel like it also speaks to like the 1:34:20.240 --> 1:34:24.960 writing of like they're actually because like, as you're talking 1:34:24.960 --> 1:34:26.479 about that, I was like, oh, I think that you 1:34:26.600 --> 1:34:31.120 actually could scale back Karen's part kind of significantly and 1:34:31.240 --> 1:34:33.160 have the events play out exactly the same. 1:34:33.640 --> 1:34:33.800 Yeah. 1:34:33.840 --> 1:34:34.320 Pretty close. 1:34:34.400 --> 1:34:37.320 Yeah, So as much as this movie does to show 1:34:37.360 --> 1:34:40.760 you Karen's perspective, that just like demonstrates that this is 1:34:40.920 --> 1:34:44.439 this is still ultimately the you know, Henry's story, because 1:34:44.479 --> 1:34:46.760 you could cut out a lot, Like there's a lot 1:34:46.800 --> 1:34:49.439 of things that in the same way that like if 1:34:49.479 --> 1:34:52.960 you added forty minutes to The Godfather, which you should not, 1:34:53.760 --> 1:34:56.960 but like if you added forty minutes of the Godfather, 1:34:57.080 --> 1:34:59.920 that's really like a meaty, in depth look at what's 1:35:00.040 --> 1:35:03.160 going on with Connie and Kay. It would be amazing, 1:35:03.479 --> 1:35:06.800 it would have elevated that movie, but it wouldn't have 1:35:06.920 --> 1:35:09.160 changed the fact that the men in the story are 1:35:09.320 --> 1:35:13.160 clearly the drivers of the story because it's. 1:35:13.040 --> 1:35:16.680 A story about godfathers. It's these are stories about the goodfellas, 1:35:16.840 --> 1:35:18.880 not the good ladies. 1:35:19.920 --> 1:35:23.600 He'll be I think that's like not a crisis, but 1:35:23.680 --> 1:35:27.320 it's like, yeah, that's that's an extraordinary pressure on Laurien 1:35:27.320 --> 1:35:30.760 and Bronco, and like she obviously rose to the occasion, 1:35:30.920 --> 1:35:35.360 but that kind of pressure certainly doesn't help. And and 1:35:36.240 --> 1:35:39.479 the thing that I that I liked about Goodfella again 1:35:39.760 --> 1:35:43.200 that like The Godfather, doesn't quite do even though it's 1:35:43.280 --> 1:35:46.200 like a little it is funny because it's like Henry Hill. 1:35:46.840 --> 1:35:48.680 The whole end of the movie is kind of like 1:35:48.760 --> 1:35:54.360 how history will forget him, which is funny because obviously 1:35:54.479 --> 1:35:59.880 it didn't because I'm watching Goodfellas, so it didn't. But 1:36:00.320 --> 1:36:03.240 I like that the kind of core message, unlike The Godfather, 1:36:03.360 --> 1:36:07.640 where it's you know, like presented in this very Shakespearean 1:36:07.760 --> 1:36:11.760 way of like history you will remember these great men, 1:36:12.040 --> 1:36:15.880 you know, like it's all presented in this very grandiose way, 1:36:16.520 --> 1:36:20.280 but Goodfellas takes a very different tack where it draws 1:36:20.320 --> 1:36:23.320 your attention to the end. It like, this lifestyle is 1:36:24.240 --> 1:36:28.519 very fleeting, you can very easily be forgotten, and like 1:36:28.760 --> 1:36:31.920 hopefully you had a good time because and like hopefully 1:36:32.000 --> 1:36:34.080 it was all worth it for you, because this is 1:36:34.160 --> 1:36:38.120 not the sort of position that history will remember you as. 1:36:38.880 --> 1:36:42.720 And I just like that, I mean whatever. I know 1:36:42.760 --> 1:36:47.440 there's room for both approaches, but I appreciate where Goodfellas 1:36:47.560 --> 1:36:50.400 kind of like tackles it from where it also just 1:36:50.479 --> 1:36:54.720 like draws your attention to like how kind of pathetic 1:36:55.200 --> 1:36:57.720 you can view Henry as at the end, because he's 1:36:58.479 --> 1:37:01.640 in the process of doing the one thing Daddy de 1:37:01.720 --> 1:37:02.760 Niro told him not to. 1:37:02.840 --> 1:37:05.879 Do, don't write out your friends and keep your mouth shut. 1:37:05.840 --> 1:37:08.880 And so he is. He is like going against what 1:37:09.080 --> 1:37:12.840 he's claimed his whole life was about. He's being called 1:37:12.880 --> 1:37:18.000 a rat in court, which is fucking brutal, but even 1:37:18.240 --> 1:37:21.280 then he's still like I feel like Henry is like 1:37:21.320 --> 1:37:23.680 such a and and it's it's tricky because you're, like 1:37:23.760 --> 1:37:25.880 I could totally see how you could be a you know, 1:37:26.000 --> 1:37:28.400 fifteen year old boy and completely miss the fucking point 1:37:28.439 --> 1:37:30.280 of what's going on here, But I just thought it 1:37:30.400 --> 1:37:33.880 was like so cool and well done. Of like Henry 1:37:34.040 --> 1:37:38.320 was always about the romantic aspects of the lifestyle. That's 1:37:38.320 --> 1:37:39.960 why he wanted to do it when he was a kid. 1:37:40.120 --> 1:37:43.080 Was probably because he like saw some neighborhood guys saw 1:37:43.120 --> 1:37:45.439 a couple movies and was like, I want to do that, 1:37:45.800 --> 1:37:49.160 And like he never even fully took in the message. 1:37:49.160 --> 1:37:52.920 He only wanted the surface level of the lifestyle and 1:37:52.960 --> 1:37:55.240 he wanted the respecting, he wanted the money. But when 1:37:55.280 --> 1:37:58.679 it actually came to like the one core like quote 1:37:58.760 --> 1:38:03.120 unquote more holistic value that this group has, he doesn't 1:38:03.200 --> 1:38:06.720 have that, like, and so he is a rat and 1:38:06.800 --> 1:38:09.400 he is kind of a fucking chump and he like 1:38:09.960 --> 1:38:14.240 sells everyone out to like he never even really got it, 1:38:14.520 --> 1:38:17.320 Like he wasn't even a real mobster because he didn't 1:38:17.360 --> 1:38:21.720 follow rule number one. And but he's like going over 1:38:21.880 --> 1:38:24.840 this all the romantic aspects that initially pulled him to 1:38:24.920 --> 1:38:28.240 this lifestyle until the very very end in a way 1:38:28.320 --> 1:38:31.280 that like I think if I have seen this movie 1:38:31.320 --> 1:38:33.640 when I was young, like a teenager, I would I 1:38:33.680 --> 1:38:37.640 wouldn't have taken it in maybe, but like that. 1:38:37.760 --> 1:38:40.400 Last scene, I was like, oh, he's like pathetic, Like 1:38:40.840 --> 1:38:43.520 he's kind of like just loser, alert. 1:38:43.560 --> 1:38:47.320 A fucking loser, right, Like it's like he's he's a 1:38:47.800 --> 1:38:49.000 he's a bad good fella. 1:38:49.360 --> 1:38:53.839 When I watched the movie, I'm like Henry Hill, loser, 1:38:54.240 --> 1:38:59.680 rat coward, Tommy the most fragile male ego I've ever 1:38:59.760 --> 1:39:01.600 seen on a person, and. 1:39:01.680 --> 1:39:05.240 Will weaponize it against women and people of color, especially 1:39:05.640 --> 1:39:09.799 like he is he is like very misogynist and racist 1:39:10.080 --> 1:39:14.000 while also presenting as inherently likable, which I think is 1:39:14.680 --> 1:39:20.000 a really really difficult tone to strike while still clearly 1:39:20.120 --> 1:39:22.840 condemning the views of the character that. 1:39:23.360 --> 1:39:28.400 And I see Jimmy and I'm like he was gonna 1:39:28.840 --> 1:39:34.200 have his friends, his wife murdered because like loyalty means 1:39:34.280 --> 1:39:37.240 nothing to these people. It's all about I mean to me, 1:39:37.400 --> 1:39:40.400 Like Jimmy is like just a capitalist through and through, 1:39:40.479 --> 1:39:44.000 Like he will choose money over anything over like connections 1:39:44.040 --> 1:39:47.120 with other humans, who cares as long as I'm rich 1:39:47.160 --> 1:39:49.320 and I can steal stuff and become richer. 1:39:49.920 --> 1:39:52.360 Right, he might shed a tear here and there, but 1:39:52.640 --> 1:39:56.439 it's not gonna stop him from right whack and Tommy right, So, 1:39:56.600 --> 1:40:01.280 like all these men are like pathetic, Yeah, and the 1:40:01.920 --> 1:40:08.040 movie seems to recognize that and put that on display, 1:40:08.240 --> 1:40:09.960 and I would imagine and again it's like, I haven't 1:40:10.000 --> 1:40:13.640 read Wise Guys, right, but I would imagine that like 1:40:14.080 --> 1:40:18.120 a lot of the and again, like Listeners, if you 1:40:18.320 --> 1:40:20.439 have done more reading into this than we have, which 1:40:20.439 --> 1:40:24.000 wouldn't be hard. We hate books. But I guess just 1:40:24.160 --> 1:40:26.800 off of the perception of these two movies. And I 1:40:26.840 --> 1:40:30.360 don't mind pitting these movies against each other because who cares, like, 1:40:30.560 --> 1:40:33.960 but you know, technically both of these movies were based 1:40:34.040 --> 1:40:36.439 in some degree of research, but I feel like you 1:40:36.520 --> 1:40:40.280 can tell which movie is based on source material of 1:40:40.479 --> 1:40:43.519 like a guy who wrote fiction and was really into 1:40:43.640 --> 1:40:47.840 the mob and a journalist who was reporting on the 1:40:47.960 --> 1:40:54.800 mob and doesn't necessarily have these romantic connections to mob guys. 1:40:54.880 --> 1:40:57.439 And I feel like that's why, Like, I mean, one 1:40:57.520 --> 1:40:59.760 of the reasons, because I feel like Karen being very 1:40:59.840 --> 1:41:01.680 much at the center of the story for a lot 1:41:01.720 --> 1:41:05.040 of the movie is another huge reason that I prefer 1:41:05.280 --> 1:41:08.240 Goodfellas to The Godfather. But I also like that it 1:41:08.400 --> 1:41:12.360 just like feels like a more grounded way, like if 1:41:12.439 --> 1:41:16.480 the goal is to like show mob life versus glorifying 1:41:16.560 --> 1:41:19.439 mob life, I feel like Goodfellas does a far better job. 1:41:19.600 --> 1:41:24.320 Not perfect because obviously, like I mean, a lot of 1:41:24.720 --> 1:41:27.479 mostly men still manage to take away the completely wrong 1:41:27.800 --> 1:41:30.240 message from it. But I also like that it's like, yeah, 1:41:30.280 --> 1:41:34.840 it seems to be based in actual reporting versus like 1:41:35.200 --> 1:41:40.960 observation that like borders on admiration right on Mario Puzzo's part, 1:41:41.400 --> 1:41:45.200 And the fact that it's like I watched this bravely 1:41:45.640 --> 1:41:46.599 on HBO Max. 1:41:47.120 --> 1:41:47.439 Did you. 1:41:49.000 --> 1:41:52.400 Did you watch the Little Marty featurette before that they had? 1:41:52.600 --> 1:41:55.640 I did, but it was two weeks ago, okay, and 1:41:55.720 --> 1:41:57.760 I didn't rewatch it, so it's not very fresh. I 1:41:57.840 --> 1:41:59.759 can't remember exactly what he was saying. 1:42:00.320 --> 1:42:04.880 So I rewatched it this morning, and I really, first 1:42:04.880 --> 1:42:08.280 of all, what a cute what a cute little guy, 1:42:08.680 --> 1:42:11.840 just truly, you just gotta love this guy. But on 1:42:11.960 --> 1:42:15.200 top of that, he spoke to like a lot of 1:42:16.040 --> 1:42:18.000 it's like a ten minute I think feature, and at 1:42:18.040 --> 1:42:20.519 the very beginning it's like a TCM thing, but he 1:42:20.720 --> 1:42:23.720 spoke to, you know, kind of his personal connection to 1:42:23.840 --> 1:42:27.600 this story, which I feel like also really helps in 1:42:28.479 --> 1:42:32.360 unders just like understanding what the filmmaker's motivation was in 1:42:32.479 --> 1:42:34.920 making it where it's like this character, like Henry Hill's, 1:42:35.479 --> 1:42:38.680 I believe, like a little bit older than Scorsese, but 1:42:38.800 --> 1:42:41.600 like Scorsese grew up in Brooklyn, he also grew up 1:42:41.760 --> 1:42:45.200 very very fascinated in buying into the romance of the 1:42:45.280 --> 1:42:48.840 mob life in the same way that Henry did. And 1:42:48.960 --> 1:42:51.760 so it's like he's able to kind of like come 1:42:51.840 --> 1:42:55.360 from a very personal place and like explore it. And also, 1:42:55.640 --> 1:42:57.280 I mean, just going back to what you were just 1:42:57.280 --> 1:43:02.320 saying about these men ultimately being pathetic, take it all 1:43:02.400 --> 1:43:05.280 the way through. So okay, I have this quote because 1:43:05.280 --> 1:43:07.320 it's like, by the end of the movie, Henry is 1:43:07.360 --> 1:43:11.800 not only acting very very selfishly, he because of his lifestyle, 1:43:12.000 --> 1:43:18.040 has fallen into addiction. He has fallen into repeatedly putting 1:43:18.080 --> 1:43:20.960 his loved ones at risk in a very selfish way 1:43:21.240 --> 1:43:23.840 and a way that he doesn't even seem to realize 1:43:23.920 --> 1:43:28.320 he's doing. And just like he's just completely come undone 1:43:28.439 --> 1:43:32.840 as a person. Here's what Marty has to say. Quote, 1:43:33.320 --> 1:43:36.120 the main character of the film is the lifestyle itself, 1:43:36.600 --> 1:43:39.639 and that brings some certain things to the four Lots 1:43:39.680 --> 1:43:43.080 of discussions about glamorizing in a sense of this lifestyle. 1:43:43.720 --> 1:43:46.559 But if you see how it proceeds, then you see 1:43:46.680 --> 1:43:49.080 ultimately the final reckoning, and you see that it's not 1:43:49.280 --> 1:43:52.439 something to be desired. Yet I wanted to explore what 1:43:52.600 --> 1:43:55.240 is the attraction to these people and why are you watching? 1:43:55.960 --> 1:43:59.680 Which I think is like a very valid place to 1:43:59.760 --> 1:44:03.280 come from. Is like, because he's right, you do see, 1:44:03.680 --> 1:44:06.640 you know, the more glamorous aspects of the mob. You 1:44:06.800 --> 1:44:09.280 see the you know, I kind of like that it's 1:44:09.560 --> 1:44:12.799 sloppier and like less organized than it is in The Godfather. 1:44:12.920 --> 1:44:17.600 But like, but you also see the fact that everyone involved, 1:44:18.120 --> 1:44:21.280 their lives are completely fucking destroyed, and it's kind of 1:44:21.320 --> 1:44:24.960 implied that it was all for basically nothing by the end. 1:44:25.200 --> 1:44:28.200 Right, I mean, because like I think most people would 1:44:28.280 --> 1:44:34.719 look at certain aspects of that lifestyle and think against. 1:44:34.720 --> 1:44:37.920 Certain aspects of it are glamorous, like the just. 1:44:38.000 --> 1:44:40.800 Like Karen did when she started danting in exactly, like. 1:44:41.479 --> 1:44:44.720 You know, just the like the lavishness of it, the 1:44:45.720 --> 1:44:52.120 access to nice, expensive things like those things are seductive 1:44:52.479 --> 1:44:54.720 to a lot of people. 1:44:54.840 --> 1:44:57.920 Like you know, right, So it's like all fleeting and 1:44:58.240 --> 1:44:59.759 right and yeah. 1:45:00.000 --> 1:45:02.920 So the movie's agenda, I think is to be like, sure, 1:45:03.160 --> 1:45:07.479 we can all understand why someone would be seduced by this. 1:45:08.000 --> 1:45:09.559 But remember how there's all this. 1:45:09.920 --> 1:45:14.720 Fella don't be if you're not, if you're gonna do. 1:45:14.840 --> 1:45:17.599 It's a cautionary tale against being a good fella exactly. 1:45:18.040 --> 1:45:20.680 But yeah, I think it is like effective in that way. 1:45:20.840 --> 1:45:23.000 I get why people watch it the wrong way, but 1:45:23.080 --> 1:45:26.960 I'm just like, well, hut, it's kind of not Marty's problem, 1:45:27.200 --> 1:45:29.560 I don't have to say, but like, but also, I 1:45:29.640 --> 1:45:33.240 mean it is that that is also symptomatic of like 1:45:33.680 --> 1:45:36.960 being a filmmaker, but also just like existing in a 1:45:37.080 --> 1:45:42.240 larger movie culture that is always going to prioritize men 1:45:42.560 --> 1:45:44.840 at the center of stories, because that is like where 1:45:44.880 --> 1:45:48.800 that problem kind of stems from. Is you know, if 1:45:49.000 --> 1:45:51.760 every single movie you've ever made is centered around a 1:45:51.840 --> 1:45:55.400 male character, of course you're at a higher risk for 1:45:56.280 --> 1:46:02.200 you know, audience members with not I don't know a 1:46:02.240 --> 1:46:04.000 way to sound it. That doesn't sound like fucking like 1:46:04.240 --> 1:46:07.439 coastal elite little bit, but like you know, like someone 1:46:07.479 --> 1:46:10.160 who's not gonna like be thinking super super hard about 1:46:10.320 --> 1:46:12.639 like the subtext, like, of course it's gonna be higher 1:46:12.640 --> 1:46:14.600 at risk for that to happen, which I think is 1:46:14.640 --> 1:46:17.960 why it happens to mainly filmmakers who make movies about 1:46:18.240 --> 1:46:21.439 men regardless of their gender, because you see that in 1:46:22.280 --> 1:46:23.960 I don't know, like even a lot of like copaganda. 1:46:24.040 --> 1:46:26.760 Copaganda is made by people of all genders, and you know, 1:46:27.120 --> 1:46:31.720 like COVID. So anyway, I mean the way that there 1:46:31.760 --> 1:46:32.439 are still like. 1:46:34.000 --> 1:46:37.200 Dipshits who think that Elon Musk is awesome because he's 1:46:37.439 --> 1:46:41.360 rich and powerful, and it's like, well, no, take one 1:46:41.680 --> 1:46:44.360 look at anything he's ever said and done, and then 1:46:44.400 --> 1:46:47.320 you realize what a monster he is. But like, because 1:46:47.600 --> 1:46:51.479 I mean again, society conditions people to think that money 1:46:51.520 --> 1:46:54.280 and power are awesome. So if you're able to achieve 1:46:54.360 --> 1:46:58.559 those things, that equals awesome. So people are gonna bring 1:46:58.600 --> 1:47:03.880 their own biases into things and interpret things in a 1:47:03.960 --> 1:47:05.720 way that I think is funked up. 1:47:06.320 --> 1:47:08.280 And I think that I think that that Marty and 1:47:08.439 --> 1:47:11.799 Nick I think that they did what they could to provide. 1:47:11.880 --> 1:47:13.840 Like I think that all the puzzle pieces are there, 1:47:13.960 --> 1:47:17.080 and whether you choose to connect them is kind of 1:47:17.240 --> 1:47:20.240 like that's you bringing your own shit to the table, 1:47:20.280 --> 1:47:23.840 which is part of the whatever. Yeah, silent contract of 1:47:23.880 --> 1:47:26.400 watching a movie. Doesn't that sound fun watching a movie? 1:47:26.479 --> 1:47:31.680 It's like silent a silent social contract scary. Can we 1:47:32.000 --> 1:47:35.920 talk about the casual racism that appears in this movie. 1:47:36.200 --> 1:47:39.920 Yes, we did bring this up on The Godfather Episode two, 1:47:40.320 --> 1:47:44.360 but yeah, it's definitely worth repeating. Where all the main 1:47:44.479 --> 1:47:49.200 characters in this movie are to some degree of Italian descent, 1:47:50.080 --> 1:47:55.120 and particularly the Tommy character complains about people being prejudiced 1:47:55.120 --> 1:47:56.120 toward Italians. 1:47:56.560 --> 1:47:59.800 There's also a discussion of people being prejudiced towards Jewish 1:47:59.800 --> 1:48:03.959 peace because Karen is from a Jewish family. 1:48:03.920 --> 1:48:07.280 Right, But then you'll have someone like Tommy and various 1:48:07.320 --> 1:48:11.880 other characters turning around and dropping the N word talking 1:48:11.920 --> 1:48:15.040 about Jewish people and disparaging ways murdering. 1:48:15.160 --> 1:48:18.559 The only black character who appears in the entire fucking movie. 1:48:18.840 --> 1:48:22.320 You have Samuel L. Jackson in the movie. He's in 1:48:22.360 --> 1:48:25.400 there for two seconds, like could you use him? Well, 1:48:25.479 --> 1:48:26.560 are you serious? 1:48:26.720 --> 1:48:28.679 I gasped. I did not know he was in this movie. 1:48:28.760 --> 1:48:30.639 I was like, well, that has to be like that's 1:48:30.680 --> 1:48:32.599 like pre famous, right, pre famous? 1:48:32.880 --> 1:48:35.400 And j was I think or like he was up 1:48:35.439 --> 1:48:38.400 and coming, But yeah, not certainly not the name that 1:48:38.560 --> 1:48:41.880 he is now. But yeah, he's in the movie for 1:48:42.080 --> 1:48:47.360 like maybe a total of fifteen seconds. Yeah, and he's 1:48:47.840 --> 1:48:50.519 violently brutally murdered. I would. 1:48:50.720 --> 1:48:52.519 I think the only thing you can say for that 1:48:52.640 --> 1:48:55.719 scene is that you don't see it, like it happens 1:48:56.120 --> 1:48:59.680 just out of frame. But like, even so, it's fucking. 1:48:59.600 --> 1:49:02.439 It's it's still really hard to it's still very brutal, 1:49:02.520 --> 1:49:05.120 like you see like the blood splatter, it's like it's 1:49:05.479 --> 1:49:09.240 ugh and like aside from his character and I think 1:49:09.360 --> 1:49:13.160 like a doctor who gives valume to Henry Hill. Yes, 1:49:13.600 --> 1:49:16.479 this is a version of New York where there are 1:49:16.720 --> 1:49:20.120 almost no people of color living and working there, or 1:49:20.160 --> 1:49:20.639 at very. 1:49:20.680 --> 1:49:23.960 Least the movie has no interest in showing it. And 1:49:24.280 --> 1:49:29.040 like I again am like I wonder how pulled from 1:49:29.200 --> 1:49:33.559 historical precedent sequences like that are because it's it also 1:49:33.840 --> 1:49:38.519 is like, you know, dishonest to portray New Yorkers in 1:49:38.600 --> 1:49:42.960 the sixties and seventies as being extremely tolerant, or as 1:49:44.000 --> 1:49:48.680 non black New Yorkers as being extremely tolerant, but this 1:49:48.880 --> 1:49:52.120 movie like doesn't really have any interest in exploring any 1:49:52.160 --> 1:49:57.360 of it. I think it's almost like Tommy's mask off racism. 1:49:57.439 --> 1:49:59.920 I think more so than any other character like repeat, 1:50:00.080 --> 1:50:03.600 because there's is more of like a character trait to 1:50:03.640 --> 1:50:06.600 show you how insecure he is, not something that the 1:50:06.680 --> 1:50:10.320 movie's actually interested in exploring, because if they were interested 1:50:10.360 --> 1:50:12.880 in exploring it, there would be a black character in 1:50:12.960 --> 1:50:16.080 the movie who's in the movie for longer than a minute, 1:50:16.320 --> 1:50:17.719 right exactly. 1:50:18.280 --> 1:50:19.240 So it is like it. 1:50:20.080 --> 1:50:23.800 I was frustrated with like the use of you know, 1:50:23.920 --> 1:50:27.280 realistic for the time racism, but like the I was 1:50:27.320 --> 1:50:29.280 frustrated that, like, you know, racism was used as a 1:50:29.320 --> 1:50:31.519 shorthand to be like, well, this guy isn't as friendly 1:50:31.560 --> 1:50:34.840 as he seems. He's very racist, and you're like, okay, 1:50:35.160 --> 1:50:38.080 Like I don't know. I did think it was I guess, 1:50:38.120 --> 1:50:40.280 I don't know. It stuck with me. I guess that 1:50:40.560 --> 1:50:45.280 In the first scene with the girlfriends, Tommy's girlfriend mentions that, 1:50:45.560 --> 1:50:47.400 like I think she says, like, oh, I saw you know, 1:50:47.520 --> 1:50:50.960 Sammy Davis Junior Reform and he's so handsome, Like I 1:50:51.080 --> 1:50:53.840 totally understand, like why you know, people have a crush 1:50:53.880 --> 1:50:58.200 on him and stuff, and Tommy, being both racist and 1:50:58.479 --> 1:51:04.719 deeply insecure, goes nuts about this and says a series 1:51:04.800 --> 1:51:08.120 of racist things like that I don't even care to repeat. 1:51:08.160 --> 1:51:10.280 But I thought it was interesting that the movie chose 1:51:10.360 --> 1:51:14.680 to like hang on that moment, because it does make 1:51:14.760 --> 1:51:17.080 it clear, like I don't even know how to feel 1:51:17.080 --> 1:51:18.800 about it, but like it does make it clear how 1:51:19.000 --> 1:51:22.640 like his like male fragility and white fragility are like 1:51:22.960 --> 1:51:27.320 overlapping in that scene in a way that is like 1:51:28.000 --> 1:51:31.240 uncomfortable for people at the table. But no one says anything. 1:51:31.640 --> 1:51:34.920 And it's and and the girlfriend because I mean, I 1:51:34.960 --> 1:51:37.680 don't know, like I was assuming because of her, you know, 1:51:38.000 --> 1:51:42.559 lack of power in this dynamic has to like back 1:51:42.680 --> 1:51:47.320 off of a very innocuous comment about a hot man being. 1:51:47.240 --> 1:51:48.839 Hot right exactly. 1:51:49.080 --> 1:51:50.960 And I don't know. I just thought it was interesting 1:51:51.000 --> 1:51:54.479 that that the movie, because it's not like an important well, 1:51:54.600 --> 1:51:56.680 it could have been cut. So I just thought it 1:51:56.760 --> 1:51:59.560 was interesting that it was left as a way to 1:51:59.760 --> 1:52:04.360 like show you a very specific way that Tommy's different toxic, 1:52:04.600 --> 1:52:08.920 insecure qualities were like intersecting in this weird moment. 1:52:09.040 --> 1:52:16.320 I don't know for sure, Let's see, do you have 1:52:16.520 --> 1:52:21.840 anything else you wanna touch on? I do appreciate that 1:52:21.960 --> 1:52:27.880 the movie shows you how corrupt and easily bought off cops. 1:52:28.920 --> 1:52:31.920 Yes, I also like that. I don't think I have 1:52:32.200 --> 1:52:37.000 really very much else to say about it. I mean, yeah, 1:52:37.040 --> 1:52:40.760 I think it's ultimately I liked how one dog was 1:52:40.800 --> 1:52:43.160 facing east and the other dog is facing west. 1:52:43.320 --> 1:52:46.799 I wrote in my notes Feminist Icon Tommy's Mom's painting 1:52:47.360 --> 1:52:47.559 you know. 1:52:47.600 --> 1:52:50.960 True, which was apparently Nick Poleggio's mom's painting. 1:52:51.840 --> 1:52:52.360 I really liked. 1:52:52.360 --> 1:52:54.759 There were a lot of like very sweet personal touches 1:52:54.800 --> 1:52:57.680 that you're just like, you gotta love Marty. Both his 1:52:57.840 --> 1:53:00.600 parents are in the movie his Mother's Sweetheart. 1:53:00.800 --> 1:53:01.840 Who does his dad play? 1:53:02.720 --> 1:53:05.479 I didn't recognize it in the movie, but he plays 1:53:06.320 --> 1:53:11.879 Charles Scorsese plays Vinny, which it could be fucking anybody 1:53:11.960 --> 1:53:15.640 who knows, But I think that that's like a thing 1:53:15.800 --> 1:53:19.080 for Scorsese, as his parents are in almost all of 1:53:19.160 --> 1:53:22.400 his movies for as long as they're alive. Like, it's 1:53:22.520 --> 1:53:24.479 very very sweet. Yeah, because it's if you look at 1:53:24.560 --> 1:53:30.519 if you look at Charles Scorsese's IMDb Wikipedia page, it's 1:53:30.800 --> 1:53:33.599 he's in Taxi Driver, he is in Raging Bull, He's 1:53:33.760 --> 1:53:36.720 in King of Comedy. He's in Muppets Take Manhattan. I 1:53:36.760 --> 1:53:38.280 don't even know why he's in that one. 1:53:38.840 --> 1:53:43.320 There's a lot of Muppet crossovers. Also, Yeah, and he's 1:53:43.360 --> 1:53:44.280 in Moonstruck. 1:53:44.400 --> 1:53:47.800 Why is he in moonstruck, like he's like, you know, 1:53:48.160 --> 1:53:51.680 he's Italian in New York, plasta meAll canon. Like, I 1:53:51.800 --> 1:53:53.800 just think it's very I just think that that's like 1:53:54.360 --> 1:53:57.200 yet another way that you're like, what a sweetye pie. 1:53:57.680 --> 1:54:03.000 Also, well, speaking of some production things people who were 1:54:03.080 --> 1:54:06.680 in or worked on the movie, this movie has an 1:54:06.880 --> 1:54:11.080 editor who is a woman, Thelma scoon Maker love that 1:54:11.960 --> 1:54:15.200 maybe how you pronounce it, And she was nominated for 1:54:15.600 --> 1:54:18.320 an Academy Award for the editing on this movie. 1:54:18.680 --> 1:54:21.800 She's a bit of a legend. She's Martin Scorsese's go 1:54:21.880 --> 1:54:23.320 to editor to this day. 1:54:23.439 --> 1:54:26.519 And the editing in this movie is really solid. Yeah, 1:54:26.560 --> 1:54:31.759 so shouts out Thelma. The production designer is a woman, 1:54:32.240 --> 1:54:37.080 Krista z or Zia, and a woman was the executive 1:54:37.080 --> 1:54:40.720 producer on this movie, Barbara Dafina, Which, you know, we 1:54:41.240 --> 1:54:43.480 just tend to mention these things because those are roles 1:54:43.600 --> 1:54:47.600 often that men occupy to this day, especially on like 1:54:47.760 --> 1:54:53.960 major Hollywood productions. So cool that you've got a handful 1:54:54.000 --> 1:54:58.600 of very major roles occupied by women. Yeah, and I 1:54:59.040 --> 1:55:01.080 totally agree. I mean that the editing in this movie 1:55:01.240 --> 1:55:05.840 is wild. There's so many cuts. It's so much like 1:55:05.960 --> 1:55:07.920 I just got stressed out watching because I was like 1:55:08.120 --> 1:55:09.680 someone was in the trenches. 1:55:10.120 --> 1:55:12.920 But yeah, she did. Did she win? 1:55:13.840 --> 1:55:16.560 She did not win. The only this movie was nominated 1:55:16.640 --> 1:55:21.160 for six Academy Awards, The only one did it received 1:55:22.200 --> 1:55:25.560 was for Joe Peschi's Supporting Actor. 1:55:26.280 --> 1:55:29.240 And I think, okay, so does this movie pass the 1:55:29.280 --> 1:55:29.880 Bechdel test? 1:55:31.080 --> 1:55:35.960 It does not unless you count one dog facing east 1:55:36.000 --> 1:55:38.760 and one dog facing west. It's passing the Bechdel test, 1:55:38.800 --> 1:55:41.600 which in a way just got back to each other there. 1:55:42.920 --> 1:55:44.880 I don't think that passes thet all fine. 1:55:46.240 --> 1:55:49.240 There is very little in the way of women interacting 1:55:49.280 --> 1:55:51.600 in this movie, aside from that one scene where it's 1:55:51.640 --> 1:55:55.800 a bunch of the Mob wives mostly gossiping with each other. 1:55:55.880 --> 1:55:58.320 Because women be gossiping and there might. 1:55:58.240 --> 1:56:01.839 Be a stray. I mean it's possible, because there's possible 1:56:01.880 --> 1:56:04.400 there's a stray interaction. I would say spiritually it doesn't 1:56:04.440 --> 1:56:06.680 because it's like, yeah, I agree, Mob, Wi've seen you 1:56:06.800 --> 1:56:10.440 have a scene where I may have caught like there 1:56:10.600 --> 1:56:14.560 there's like maybe a single exchange inside of Karen talking 1:56:14.600 --> 1:56:18.840 to her mother that passes, but they're mostly talking about her. 1:56:18.880 --> 1:56:20.080 Marriage, about Henry. 1:56:20.440 --> 1:56:25.920 Yeah, and then she screams into uh, like the intercom 1:56:26.320 --> 1:56:31.360 at Janie's apartment, but Janie is crying. Is it incretively important? Yes, 1:56:31.560 --> 1:56:34.000 but it is all about Henry. I don't think we 1:56:34.120 --> 1:56:38.560 ever see her like have a conversation with her daughters. 1:56:38.960 --> 1:56:41.520 I kind of thought, honestly that because there was that 1:56:41.680 --> 1:56:44.600 lingering shot on their oldest daughter watching them fight, that 1:56:45.440 --> 1:56:48.120 maybe the daughters would have just like appeared a little 1:56:48.160 --> 1:56:50.800 more meaningfully later on. But it's not a big criticism. 1:56:50.840 --> 1:56:52.960 I just sort of thought that this movie does not 1:56:53.440 --> 1:56:57.440 really care about the children, no and b well, and 1:56:57.520 --> 1:57:02.600 to be fair, neither do their parents, so it's fair point. 1:57:03.480 --> 1:57:05.600 So yeah, no, I do not think this movie passes 1:57:05.800 --> 1:57:09.800 the Bechdel test, at least not the way we play it. 1:57:10.000 --> 1:57:13.280 But our nipple scale. Though the nipple scale, oh boy, 1:57:13.560 --> 1:57:14.480 you know, I. 1:57:17.480 --> 1:57:19.520 Want to do a split down the middle for this one. 1:57:19.680 --> 1:57:23.360 It might seem I like the cheating, but I'm gonna 1:57:23.360 --> 1:57:28.040 give it two point five nipples. And because like comparing 1:57:28.120 --> 1:57:31.840 it to a movie like The Godfather, it's doing a 1:57:31.960 --> 1:57:37.800 lot more as far as characterizing the women Slash mostly 1:57:37.960 --> 1:57:42.360 just that one woman of Karen, and giving the audience 1:57:42.480 --> 1:57:47.560 insight into her feelings, her perspective, all the things that 1:57:47.640 --> 1:57:49.920 she's dealing with and all of the things that the 1:57:50.000 --> 1:57:52.760 movie The Godfather did not bother to do because it 1:57:53.000 --> 1:57:55.120 just clearly did not give a shit about the women 1:57:55.160 --> 1:57:58.240 who occupy this world. Now this movie seems to care 1:57:58.480 --> 1:58:04.320 a lot more about that, but it's ultimately still a 1:58:04.480 --> 1:58:16.080 story about the good Fellas. Of you to say, you know, 1:58:16.480 --> 1:58:19.880 you might not know it, but Goodfellas is about the Goodfellas. 1:58:20.200 --> 1:58:24.360 But they're bad, Kaitlin, So they're bad, and the movie 1:58:24.680 --> 1:58:29.360 is like it's offering criticism about the Goodfellas and actually 1:58:29.440 --> 1:58:33.640 maybe saying that they're not goodfellas, that they are perhaps 1:58:34.000 --> 1:58:40.240 bad fellas. Guy, But at the end of the day, 1:58:41.320 --> 1:58:46.000 there's still only one woman that the movie has any 1:58:46.040 --> 1:58:50.840 real concern about. Uh, still still focuses on the men. 1:58:51.560 --> 1:58:54.600 I don't know, just uh, you know, it's it's a 1:58:54.640 --> 1:58:56.360 step in the right direction, but. 1:58:56.640 --> 1:58:59.680 Yeah, it's I view it as kind of like in 1:59:00.120 --> 1:59:02.680 the genre of like it's I mean, it's like a 1:59:02.800 --> 1:59:06.120 super myopic genre right where it's like only interested in 1:59:06.240 --> 1:59:10.200 a very very very specific group of men, and it 1:59:10.280 --> 1:59:14.760 doesn't really stray out of the myopic focus. But like 1:59:15.000 --> 1:59:19.600 of the movies that we've covered that have this myopic focus. 1:59:20.440 --> 1:59:24.960 It does the most and gets the most mileage out 1:59:25.000 --> 1:59:27.680 of that myopic focus because obviously there's a ton of 1:59:27.760 --> 1:59:32.720 people excluded when the focus is this specific, right, but 1:59:32.880 --> 1:59:35.040 this is but this is the most I've seen of 1:59:35.280 --> 1:59:39.400 like taking interest in everyone in this myopic focus. 1:59:40.080 --> 1:59:43.120 Yeah, which isn't to say it's perfect, right exactly, so 1:59:44.720 --> 1:59:47.400 it's complicated, but even so, I'll give it two and 1:59:47.440 --> 1:59:50.840 a half apples. I'll give one nipple to the dog 1:59:50.920 --> 1:59:53.760 that's facing east. I'll give one nipple to the dog 1:59:53.800 --> 1:59:58.800 that's facing west. And then that's not fair. I'll give 1:59:58.840 --> 2:00:02.560 one nipple to Karen. I'll give one nipple to Tommy's 2:00:02.640 --> 2:00:08.200 mom aka Missus Scorsese, who's just giving the performance of 2:00:08.240 --> 2:00:11.520 a lifetime. Her whole thing is that whole scene. 2:00:11.960 --> 2:00:13.080 Yeah, amazing is that. 2:00:13.280 --> 2:00:15.640 She took some UCB classes if I've ever seen it, 2:00:16.200 --> 2:00:19.600 Oh boy, did she? I love that her whole thing? 2:00:19.640 --> 2:00:22.440 I mean, I love I think it's funny that her 2:00:22.480 --> 2:00:25.440 whole thing is Tommy. Why don't you find a wife 2:00:25.560 --> 2:00:30.560 and settle down, like your friend Henry kays, Like, mom 2:00:30.760 --> 2:00:34.240 too busy fucking a different woman every night, Leave me alone. 2:00:34.560 --> 2:00:39.760 Wait, till I tell my friend McCaulay about this. I 2:00:39.960 --> 2:00:42.040 like to think that Joe Pesci would be on set. 2:00:42.200 --> 2:00:45.200 This is like so fake, but this is like I 2:00:45.360 --> 2:00:48.920 just heard of Hollywood today. I think that Joe Pesci 2:00:48.960 --> 2:00:51.120 would be on set a Good Fellas from eight am 2:00:51.480 --> 2:00:54.280 until one pm, and then he'd drive over to home 2:00:54.280 --> 2:00:57.880 alone and be slipping and sliding around for the rest 2:00:57.960 --> 2:00:58.320 of the day. 2:00:58.440 --> 2:01:01.240 Wow, he's a busy guy that he's got a lot 2:01:01.320 --> 2:01:01.880 on his plate. 2:01:02.840 --> 2:01:03.640 Bless his heart. 2:01:04.840 --> 2:01:08.880 So okay, So one nipple, Karen, one nipple to Tommy's mom, 2:01:09.120 --> 2:01:12.640 and I'll give my half nipple to feminist icon the 2:01:12.760 --> 2:01:15.120 Dog Painting. I'm gonna go. 2:01:15.120 --> 2:01:17.200 Two and a half as well. Like we've been talking 2:01:17.200 --> 2:01:19.720 about this whole time, you know, like as far as 2:01:20.280 --> 2:01:23.480 a mob movie that focuses on the Italian American mob 2:01:23.680 --> 2:01:26.280 in the mid twentieth century, of which there are so 2:01:26.680 --> 2:01:30.840 many movies, this is my favorite one that I've seen. 2:01:31.600 --> 2:01:34.360 But also if you're a listener and you have seen 2:01:34.400 --> 2:01:36.200 one that you like even more, I would be curious 2:01:36.280 --> 2:01:38.400 to see. Honestly, I might not watch it. I feel 2:01:38.400 --> 2:01:41.680 like I feel like I get it, But I actually 2:01:41.720 --> 2:01:44.680 really did enjoy this movie. I think that, you know, 2:01:44.920 --> 2:01:47.960 if you're stacking these movies against each other, which is 2:01:48.040 --> 2:01:50.600 like sort of kind of what we've been doing this month, 2:01:51.040 --> 2:01:54.640 intentionally or not, you know, I if you've got to 2:01:54.720 --> 2:01:59.280 have two white guys coming at this material, I feel 2:01:59.680 --> 2:02:05.400 far better about Scorsese and a man that Nora Evron 2:02:05.480 --> 2:02:11.560 deems worthy of love of then of the other team. However, 2:02:12.360 --> 2:02:14.120 I do think that both movies are really, really good. 2:02:14.120 --> 2:02:16.760 I understand why they hold their place in history. I 2:02:17.200 --> 2:02:20.920 still want my Connie and Kay Rosenkranz and Gildenstarter Dead movie. 2:02:21.120 --> 2:02:23.240 I'm giving this movie two and a half nipples because 2:02:23.360 --> 2:02:25.280 I think that you made an excellent point at the 2:02:25.360 --> 2:02:29.160 end that there were women meaningfully involved behind the camera, 2:02:29.280 --> 2:02:32.000 which you don't hear a lot about to this day. 2:02:32.480 --> 2:02:35.680 This is this movie over thirty years old. I think, 2:02:35.760 --> 2:02:39.200 you know Marty, you know he's got a shit together. 2:02:39.480 --> 2:02:41.920 So give it two and a half. I'm gonna give 2:02:41.960 --> 2:02:47.640 one to Karen, and I'm gonna give one too Marty's mother, 2:02:48.320 --> 2:02:52.360 and then I'll give my last half to Joe Pesh 2:02:52.520 --> 2:02:53.680 saying oh shit. 2:02:55.200 --> 2:03:00.640 And then getting his head blown off. 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