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Speaker 1: On the Bechdelcast, the questions asked if movies have women

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Speaker 1: and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,

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Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? The patriarchy zephynbast start changing

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Speaker 1: with the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 2: Hello, Bechdel Cast listeners.

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Speaker 3: Twenty twenty five. How bad could it be? Let's find out?

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Speaker 3: Happy New Year, everybody. We're here to say hello from

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Speaker 3: the present and take you back to the somewhat recent past,

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Speaker 3: because to start off the year, we are unlocking a

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Speaker 3: Matreon episode for you for an episode that a lot

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Speaker 3: of folks who are just on the main feed have

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Speaker 3: been frothing for for some time.

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Speaker 2: It's the Good Fella's Episode. We recorded this well, we

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Speaker 2: did it for a theme on the Matreon that was

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Speaker 2: called Mob March. Whether or not we did it in March,

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Speaker 2: I don't remember, probably not.

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Speaker 3: Honestly, very uncle, but that was a month where we

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Speaker 3: covered I think two of the most hyper masculine requests

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Speaker 3: we get. We did The Godfather and Goodfellas. So if

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Speaker 3: you enjoyed this episode and you want to hear our

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Speaker 3: thoughts on The Godfather, then you can head over to

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Speaker 3: our matrearch at patreon dot com. Slash Bechtel Cast for

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Speaker 3: five bucks a month you get two bonus episodes. It's

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Speaker 3: the best way to support the show, killer would you agree?

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Speaker 2: I would agree. But also another way to support the

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Speaker 2: show is to come to the live shows slash live

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Speaker 2: streams that we have coming up. Maybe you've heard of them,

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Speaker 2: maybe you haven't, but now they have. We are doing

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Speaker 2: shows in La San Francisco, and Portland later in January.

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Speaker 2: Tickets are still available to all the shows. We are

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Speaker 2: doing a special show in LA on January nineteenth. Jamie

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Speaker 2: tell them about it.

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh. Okay, So this is sort of a

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Speaker 3: celebration of the show itself. We are having our favorite

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Speaker 3: and your favorite guests from the show who live in

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Speaker 3: the area or are coming through town to do stand

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Speaker 3: up or presentations on their favorite movies, and then we

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Speaker 3: will also be doing bits we will also I mean,

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Speaker 3: it's just a celebration of the show because we've never

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Speaker 3: really gotten to do that in the almost ten years

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Speaker 3: we've been making this show. So if you're in the

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Speaker 3: LA area, we would really love for you to come

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Speaker 3: out and celebrate. And if you don't live in the

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Speaker 3: LA area, you can get live stream tickets on the

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Speaker 3: nineteenth and watch it for a week after.

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Speaker 2: That's so true. So that's the La show. We're very

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Speaker 2: excited for it. We also are doing Sketch Fest in

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Speaker 2: San Francisco and this is a part of our Shrek

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Speaker 2: Tannic tour. And here's something that I decided, Okay, if

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Speaker 2: this show sells out, huh, I will get naked so

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Speaker 2: that you can draw me like one of your French girls, Jamie.

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Speaker 3: And I feel like, you know, what is feminism if

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Speaker 3: not meeting your friend where they're at. And so oh sure,

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Speaker 3: I have no problem to take my clothes off. Come

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Speaker 3: to San Francisco if you want to see us naked,

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Speaker 3: and it'll be kind of like clear if we don't

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Speaker 3: move tickets from here, how you feel? And that's body shaming,

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Speaker 3: So you have to come to the show.

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Speaker 2: Actually, it's it's insulting to us.

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Speaker 3: It's if you don't buy, you don't It's like, okay,

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Speaker 3: I see how it is. That's fine.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So you're gonna wanna come to the show

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Speaker 2: and you're gonna want to see us naked.

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Speaker 3: You're gonna want to see our titties.

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Speaker 2: Tell your friends grab those tickets, and we'll also be

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Speaker 2: talking about Titanic, but the real, the real.

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Speaker 3: If you're on the fence, there you go. And then

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Speaker 3: of course we're gonna be in Portland, and you know

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Speaker 3: TVD we could I will actually know that's a live

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Speaker 3: stream show. We can't take out our titties. San Francisco

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Speaker 3: really is the only place where we can safely take

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Speaker 3: out our titties. Yes, sorry, and that's.

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Speaker 2: Why you absolutely need to buy tickets and come to

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Speaker 2: that show Portland. It is live stream, like you said,

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Speaker 2: as well as the live show in Portland, and also

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Speaker 2: part of the Shrek Tannic tour and we were doing Shrek,

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Speaker 2: so completely different show than the Titanic one. And yes

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Speaker 2: we have we talked about these movies before. Maybe I

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Speaker 2: don't really remember. I don't think really we've ever done

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Speaker 2: a Titanic episode before.

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Speaker 3: But however, this is like sort of the amalgamation of

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Speaker 3: like all of those episodes put into one unhinged little show.

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Speaker 2: Not even it's all brand new stuff. Like if you

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Speaker 2: see these shows, you're gonna be seeing lots of fresh stuff.

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Speaker 3: And don't worry, we have seen Titanic twice in theaters

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Speaker 3: in the last month, so we're absolutely like actually absurdly

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Speaker 3: prepared for this.

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Speaker 2: So ready, and you can grab tickets to all of

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Speaker 2: these shows on our link tree link Tree slash spectel Cast. Again,

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Speaker 2: there's live shows, there's live streams. You ain't got no

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Speaker 2: excuse not to come.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, we would absolutely love to see you there.

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Speaker 3: And in the meantime, we will be back with piping

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Speaker 3: hot brand new episodes for you in the coming week.

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Speaker 3: But as we prepare for this tour, we wanted to

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Speaker 3: share one of our favorite Matreon episodes and again if

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Speaker 3: you're if you enjoy this sort of more casual discussion,

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Speaker 3: it's patreon dot com slash Bechtel Cast. Five bucks a

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Speaker 3: month gets you access not just to episodes like this,

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Speaker 3: where we have two new ones monthly, but also a

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Speaker 3: back catalog of one hundred and fifty episodes. So that's

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Speaker 3: the place to go. And Caitlin, I've always said, I

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Speaker 3: think I think we're we're rather good fellas.

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Speaker 2: We're good fellas absolutely is how I would describe us.

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Speaker 2: And actually, the one last thing to do before we

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Speaker 2: jump into the unlocked Matreon episode is to just give

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Speaker 2: a quick content warning because the movie involves and we

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Speaker 2: discuss on the episode abuse and violence toward women. So

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Speaker 2: we just wanted to provide you with that content warning

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Speaker 2: at the top. Otherwise, you're so true, Jamie. We are

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Speaker 2: good fellas.

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Speaker 3: We're great fellas. I mean, that's kind of the difference.

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Speaker 3: If the movie is about us who have be called

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Speaker 3: great fellas, these ones, oh they're just good. But let

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Speaker 3: us know what you think. Enjoy this unluck Matrioch episode.

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Speaker 3: Enjoy the decast.

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Speaker 2: As far back as I can remember, I always wanted

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Speaker 2: to be a podcaster.

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Speaker 3: No whoo.

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Speaker 2: Oh man, that's my rayleiota impression, perfect spot on.

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Speaker 3: No, perfect rest and paradise, mister Ray, sweet baby Ray himself.

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Speaker 2: Wait did he die?

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Speaker 3: He died this year?

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, how did I not know that?

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Speaker 3: I think that it was no disrespect to to Ray.

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Speaker 3: But if I'm remembering correctly, it was like in a

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Speaker 3: it was like one of those weeks where a lot

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Speaker 3: of famous people died. But he died in May of

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Speaker 3: this year, so I think that he may have gotten

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Speaker 3: kind of farah fauceted if you if you will, bye,

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Speaker 3: I forget who it would have been. But yeah, as

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Speaker 3: far as I noticed, a sweet man who, yeah, I

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Speaker 3: know is professionally Italian yeah, and you know, we uh,

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Speaker 3: we celebrate that. Sure, let's look at his personal life.

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Speaker 3: Let's see. I'm in his personal life section. Oh please, yeah,

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Speaker 3: let's see. Let's see.

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Speaker 2: Because anytime I've said like, oh, I really like this actor,

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Speaker 2: I have gone on to regret it. I know, because

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Speaker 2: everyone's like, but didn't you know that he was a

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Speaker 2: fucking creep, no and predator? And I'm like, well, obviously, no,

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Speaker 2: I didn't know that.

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Speaker 3: No. I think that it looks like looks like our guy.

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Speaker 3: Ray got a DUI and O seven and he loved

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Speaker 3: horseback riding.

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Speaker 2: He loved horseback riding.

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Speaker 3: As far as I know, he is a nice guy

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Speaker 3: that that made a mistake, did his time or did

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Speaker 3: his fee or whatever happens when that happens, and then

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Speaker 3: he got back on the horse, got back on the

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Speaker 3: horn figuratively. Oh rip, Ray, what a good different. Wait,

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Speaker 3: here's something fun. Okay, Here's what Ray has to say

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Speaker 3: about working in many genres. He said this in twenty

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Speaker 3: eighteen while discussing his role alongside Jennifer Lopez as a

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Speaker 3: corrupt cop targeted by the FBI in the NBC crime

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Speaker 3: drama Shades of Blue. This is all a new information

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Speaker 3: to me. But he was friends with Jennifer Lopez. Maybe okay,

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Speaker 3: he says, oh, quote, you want to do as many

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Speaker 3: different genres as you can, and that's what I've been doing.

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Speaker 3: I've done movies with the Muppets. I did Sinatra, I

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Speaker 3: did Good Guys and Bad Guys. I did a movie

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Speaker 3: with an elephant.

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Speaker 2: He did Good Fellas.

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Speaker 3: He did Good Fellas. He did a movie with an elephant.

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Speaker 2: Not like that.

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Speaker 3: He does not get more specific. I decided that I

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Speaker 3: was here to try different parts, to do different things.

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Speaker 3: That's what it's really about. That's what a career should be.

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Speaker 3: What movie had elephant? Oh? Operation Dumbo drop? Oh?

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Speaker 2: Okay? Was he in a Muppet movie?

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Speaker 3: He's in Muppets from Space? Oh my goodness, is he

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Speaker 3: in another Muppet movie? I'm sorry, I'm I don't know

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Speaker 3: looking through his wow, I mean, and what a career?

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Speaker 3: Sorry did it? This is our feminist podcast. Yeah, it

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Speaker 3: looks like he was in Muppets from Space. I like

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Speaker 3: that he singled that out as seemingly a career high,

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Speaker 3: because he's right.

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Speaker 2: He's correct.

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Speaker 3: Oh I forgot he was in b movie as himself.

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Speaker 2: B b ray Liotta.

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Speaker 3: Bra I can't think too hard of a B movie.

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Speaker 3: My head, it's kind of shocking. We haven't done that.

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Speaker 3: That's like our next irony pilled Matreon choice.

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Speaker 2: Probably I think we Yeah, let's start a campaign to

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Speaker 2: get B movie covered on the cast.

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Speaker 3: How hard could it be? Well, tlcome to the Oh

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Speaker 3: and he was in I think, honestly the Raleigh to work,

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Speaker 3: I would have encountered. The most is watching boys play

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Speaker 3: Grand Theft Auto in high school because he did. Does

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Speaker 3: he did Grand Theft Auto? Yeah, he's in Grand Theft

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Speaker 3: Auto Vice City, Okay, And I was looking through it

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Speaker 3: and I was like, whoa, I hate that I remember

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Speaker 3: this much. But I like just watched my cousins and friends,

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Speaker 3: and you know, maybe I'm a bad feminist for this,

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Speaker 3: but I actually genuinely don't mind watching other people play

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Speaker 3: video games. I think it's fun. I don't like video like,

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Speaker 3: I don't like playing video games, and I really don't

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Speaker 3: like being watched while I'm playing video games.

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Speaker 2: But I like watching others.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm like on the side with my iPad playing

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Speaker 3: you know, my my gaming which is sure Homescapes. And

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Speaker 3: then if they're playing Grand Theft Auto, you know, it's

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Speaker 3: kind of a nice little wait. Anyways, he played the

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Speaker 3: part of Tommy Rossetti and GTA Vice City. I remember

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Speaker 3: it that tracks. Do you want to come over and

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Speaker 3: watch me play Pokemon Violet? Because yeah, you're welcome anytime.

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Speaker 3: I genuinely like find it very soothing because it's like

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Speaker 3: a like an active passive hang where it's like you

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Speaker 3: can chat, but if the conversation lulls, it's like we're

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Speaker 3: both busy. We're gamers, were gamers, but like, I can't,

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Speaker 3: I can't commit to something more than a little puzzle.

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Speaker 2: What if we start a Twitch channel, a stream if

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Speaker 2: you will, in which I know out watch hear out

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Speaker 2: my pitch, my twitch pitch, Jamie, it's you watching me

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Speaker 2: play it to sound Pokemon games, but I don't know

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Speaker 2: anything about Pokemon. So it's me just being like, who's

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Speaker 2: this little guy? And then I catch him and I say, oh,

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Speaker 2: it's so and so I'll add them to my poke decks.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 3: It's another thing that I like to do, and it's

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Speaker 3: not anti feminist because I'm doing it so okay. Is

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Speaker 3: while someone's playing a video, we're like, yeah, if you're

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Speaker 3: playing Pokemon, and then you're like, who's this little guy?

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Speaker 3: I'm like, I'll google it. That's I'm just kind of feminist.

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Speaker 3: Your Pokemon wife acquiring knowledge is feminist. I just like

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Speaker 3: you know what. I I just don't want to be watched,

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Speaker 3: you know, I understand. I mean, I want to be watched, perceived, adored,

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Speaker 3: worshiped at all times. But when the video games are on, No,

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Speaker 3: I don't know what it is.

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Speaker 2: It's a different story. I understand it's complicated.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to the backdel Cast.

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Speaker 2: We're talking about Goodfellas. It's part two of Mob March,

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Speaker 2: and we are covering.

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Speaker 3: The other Mob movie.

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Speaker 2: The one other one, Goodfellas from nineteen ninety directed by

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Speaker 2: Martin Scorsese. Oh, mister nice, he's such a little cutie pie.

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Speaker 3: What Scorsese movies have we covered on this show? Is this?

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Speaker 3: This can't be the first?

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Speaker 2: Is this the first one?

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Speaker 3: Oh? My goodness, I think this may be the first one.

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Speaker 2: Wow, Wow, it's about damn time.

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Speaker 3: Look. I think Martin Scorsese is the best. The more

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Speaker 3: I learn about him as years past, the more I

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Speaker 3: like him. I haven't. I am not a completionist, but

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Speaker 3: I've seen many of his movies. I like almost everything

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Speaker 3: I've seen. I feel like I guess that there's I

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Speaker 3: was thinking about this when we were when I was

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Speaker 3: like looking into the discourse around Goodfellas over the years,

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Speaker 3: because I think, I mean, we both really like this movie.

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Speaker 3: But I do think that there is like there was

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Speaker 3: a weird point in like the mid twenty tens, which

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Speaker 3: is when the show started, where people I think understandably

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Speaker 3: took a hard turn against movies like this in general,

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Speaker 3: but it had a lot more to do with and

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Speaker 3: it's like, I know I've been on I don't know,

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Speaker 3: I've been on a journey to this effect for years

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Speaker 3: at this point of like I feel like if you

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Speaker 3: asked me about Goodfellas in you know, twenty sixteen, I

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Speaker 3: would have been like, I don't know, I haven't seen it,

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Speaker 3: fuck it, I don't care. Like I'm sick of hearing

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Speaker 3: guys talk to me about sure movies like that, like

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Speaker 3: who gives a shit? Like I'm watching you know what?

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Speaker 3: Anything else out of like sheer frustration of like how

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Speaker 3: people talk about it. Yeah, which I do think is

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Speaker 3: a valid reaction. And I think it was like that

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Speaker 3: was such a I don't you know whatever. In retrospect,

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Speaker 3: was it a productive time for discussion? That's kind of

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Speaker 3: your mileage may vary, but sure it was a time

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Speaker 3: where it felt like socially acceptable to say stuff like

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Speaker 3: that kind of for the first time in our lifetimes

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Speaker 3: at least, especially having like both of us been through

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Speaker 3: film school and like, you know, having to kind of

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Speaker 3: be like yeah, totally, you know, like it was cathartic.

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Speaker 3: But now like a half decade past that, I feel

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Speaker 3: like in a slightly different place where it's like, have

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Speaker 3: it like holding two truths at once of like the

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Speaker 3: way that a lot of people talk about these movies

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Speaker 3: are deeply fucking annoying and like you know, whoa no,

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Speaker 3: I always lose this word every time it has to

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Speaker 3: come out of my mouth, Like it's a synonym for condescending,

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Speaker 3: but condescending also works patronizing. Patronizing more like matronizing. Am

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Speaker 3: I right exactly? But it's the same way as like

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Speaker 3: I did like this forever ago, like this performance art

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Speaker 3: project that was like around Infinite Jest, a book I've

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Speaker 3: never read, but I just I was sick of being

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Speaker 3: talked at about it. No one was talking to you

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Speaker 3: about it or I was talking at you about it. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: like you couldn't possibly fucking understand, and I feel like

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Speaker 3: Goodfellas the Godfather, most hyper masculine mob movies kind of

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Speaker 3: fall under that same branch, and people, I think we're

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Speaker 3: like and you know, I would say majority women were

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Speaker 3: kind of like pushing back against that, like leave me

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Speaker 3: the fuck alone. But now half a decade later, like, well,

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Speaker 3: wait a second, I like this movie, like and it's

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Speaker 3: like the the this feels like very something that pops

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Speaker 3: up a lot in Martin Scorsese's catalog, in particular, because

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Speaker 3: like he is like a pretty historically progressive and cool

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Speaker 3: guy who's always like lifted up other people's work and

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Speaker 3: championed other people, and like it seems like a real,

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Speaker 3: like just amazing person. I love him so much, but

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Speaker 3: like it feels like movies and his catalog often like

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Speaker 3: deal with themes of masculinity in ways that are like

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Speaker 3: pretty overtly critical, but the fans of the movies don't

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Speaker 3: always get that. And then it's like I developed a

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Speaker 3: negative opinion of some of his movies before I'd even

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Speaker 3: seen them because of how patronizing fans of those movies

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Speaker 3: could be. And ultimately I'm like, oh, I lost out

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Speaker 3: in that equation because then I was like staying away

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Speaker 3: from them movies like oh, there's no way I would

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Speaker 3: like them, And now that I'm like actually starting to

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Speaker 3: watch them, I was like, well, shit, man, like.

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Speaker 2: They had a point. Just because you missed the fucking

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Speaker 2: point doesn't.

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Speaker 3: Mean I can't get to watch Goodfellas, Like, yeah, geez,

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Speaker 3: I don't know. Anyways. I feel like that conversation came

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Speaker 3: back around in a totally different way when Wolf of

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Speaker 3: Fall Street came out, because that's like one of my

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Speaker 3: favorite movies, but I think has the same kind of

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Speaker 3: thing going on.

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Speaker 2: Sure, Yeah, so what's your history with I saw this

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Speaker 2: movie I don't know, as a late teenager for the

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Speaker 2: first time, and I really liked it. I bought it

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Speaker 2: on DVD.

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Speaker 3: Hell yeah, catalog, you have one of those binders. I

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Speaker 3: love it, I.

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Speaker 2: Really do, and I watch it maybe once a year,

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Speaker 2: once every couple years. It wasn't one that I returned

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Speaker 2: to extremely consistently. But I've seen this movie probably like

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Speaker 2: eight or ten times throughout my life, always enjoyed it.

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Speaker 2: You know, I've been fucking with this movie for nearly

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Speaker 2: two decades.

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Speaker 3: Now you've been at it.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, that's that's my history about. How about you I.

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Speaker 3: Hadn't seen it for all the reasons that I just

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Speaker 3: told you. Yeah, like I just hadn't seen it, I mean,

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Speaker 3: but also the same thing, honestly is just like this

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Speaker 3: has It was like partially that weirdly complicated, convoluted thing

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Speaker 3: I just said, and also just like, it's just not

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Speaker 3: a genre I've ever been interested in. It's not a

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Speaker 3: genre that like whatever.

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Speaker 1: I like.

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Speaker 3: I feel like the kinds of movies that your family watches,

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Speaker 3: like my family, like, no one in my family really

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Speaker 3: watch it was interested in mob movies. So it just

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Speaker 3: like wasn't something that I was into. And then as

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Speaker 3: time went on, I feel like I became disinterested for

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Speaker 3: reasons on top of just being like, ma'am, it's not

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Speaker 3: really for me. But I love I mean, I really

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Speaker 3: loved it. I thought I thought this movie was awesome. Look,

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Speaker 3: Mob March really took me off guard in that it

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Speaker 3: look points are being made in these movies and the

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Speaker 3: and like goodfellow I mean, we had the whole discussion

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Speaker 3: around The Godfather, which I also liked, but I think

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Speaker 3: for the purposes of this show, like you know, we

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Speaker 3: talked about it whatever you listen to it. But Goodfellas

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Speaker 3: has like so much more going on. Martin's Coorsese. The

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Speaker 3: man's an ally, he's interested. He like I just, ah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I thought this movie. I mean, obviously there's stuff to

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Speaker 3: talk about, plenty to talk about, but I really left

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Speaker 3: feeling I also love. At the very very end of

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Speaker 3: the movie, they're like, by the way she left him, and.

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Speaker 2: You're like, yeah, yes, get out of there. Karen.

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Speaker 3: Oh god, I'm not us rooting for a Karen, but

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Speaker 3: this is Look, yeah, there are hashtag not all Karens

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Speaker 3: and Karen Hill. We make an exception for Karen Hill.

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Speaker 3: We make an exception for Lorraine Bronco. In general, she's

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Speaker 3: just she's she is like pasta canon because she's also

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Speaker 3: the therapist in soprano.

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Speaker 2: Right, and you know what else she has done. Very recently,

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Speaker 2: she was the voice of a character named I think

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Speaker 2: Sophia in Pinocchio twenty twenty two. Robert semechis, stop it's true.

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Speaker 3: Stop it the Pinocchio Wars coming January. I mean I

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Speaker 3: think so now it's oh, it's the Pinocchio. I can't

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Speaker 3: believe she was in. That sucks that she was in

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Speaker 3: the bad one, the bad Pinocchio. But still on brand

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Speaker 3: for her. Pinocchio's Italian exactly. But wait, I know we

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Speaker 3: talked about this, but now that we've seen the Mob movies,

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Speaker 3: I really want to have like a poster that's like

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Speaker 3: Vito Corleone, Robert de Niro and Goodfellas and like Pinocchio,

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Speaker 3: the three bad, bad Italian boys.

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Speaker 2: No, that's that's that's great merch, possible merch. Something to

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Speaker 2: think about.

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Speaker 3: Our worst shirt.

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Speaker 2: Fellows. I want to see.

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Speaker 3: Think about it. Why couldn't Pinocchio be one of the

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Speaker 3: good fellas, Nigo? This is like a horrible like bottom

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Speaker 3: of the barrel robot chicken sketch brain that is still

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Speaker 3: exists in my fucking cortex somewhere. But it's like Vito

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Speaker 3: Corleone being like Pinocchio, how.

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Speaker 2: Do you disrespect me on the day of my daughter's wedding?

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Speaker 3: And Pinocchio my Italian king Pinocchio. Oh, anyway, Pinocchio owes

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Speaker 3: me money. All right, Well, should I do the recap? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay, here's Goodfellas. It's based on a

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Speaker 2: true story and based on a book called Wise Guy

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Speaker 2: written by Nicholas Peleggie Allgie Pelegie.

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Speaker 3: Being the bad Italian I don't know. Also, Pelegie iconically

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Speaker 3: married to Nora E. Fron up until yes, she she's

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Speaker 3: written really lovely thing or she wrote really lovely things

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Speaker 3: about him, because you know Nora Afron, she loved to

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Speaker 3: filet her exes. It's one of my favorite things about

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Speaker 3: her and Carl Bernstein. Right, there were no survivors. It's

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Speaker 3: he's I think he's still technically alive, but spiritually he's

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Speaker 3: been dead for decades. But Nicholas Poleggi was was the

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Speaker 3: good husband to Nora Afron.

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Speaker 2: So glad to hear it.

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Speaker 3: Respect. Respect, Yeah, that's what he's most famous for, not this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, being Nora Efron's her.

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Speaker 3: Husband, not shitty husband.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay, here's the recap. We open in media res

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Speaker 2: uh oh, screenwriting term alert.

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Speaker 3: Okay, why don't you tell Why don't you tell the

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Speaker 3: folks what that means?

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Speaker 2: That literally translates to into the midst of things or

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Speaker 2: like into the midst of because we open on the

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Speaker 2: characters as we will see them in the middle of

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Speaker 2: the story. Because we see three guys are driving in

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Speaker 2: a car. It's Ray Liota, Robert de Niro and Joe Peshi.

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Speaker 2: They pull over a guy in their trunk, who they

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Speaker 2: thought was dead, is not dead, so they stab him

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Speaker 2: and shoot him some more until he is dead. Q

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Speaker 2: voiceover from Ray Liota's character Henry Hill. He says, as

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Speaker 2: far back as I can remember, I always wanted to

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Speaker 2: be a gangster. And then we cut back. We flash

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Speaker 2: back to Henry as a teen kid in Brooklyn, New York.

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Speaker 2: Ever heard of it? I've ever heard of it? I

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Speaker 2: think the year is nineteen fifty five. Young Henry gets

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Speaker 2: a job working for some mob guys in his neighborhood,

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Speaker 2: and he really admires these guys, especially his boss Polly

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Speaker 2: Because played by Paul Servina.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, King Paul Sorvino, who threatened to who. Famously, his

430
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:08,720
Speaker 3: most famous thing is that he threatened to uh with

431
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 3: extreme specificity, threatened to kill Harvey Weinstein after learning that, oh,

432
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:20,159
Speaker 3: he had been abusive towards his daughter Mira Sorfino. Right, Yeah,

433
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:23,960
Speaker 3: Paul Sorvino, absolute icon. I believe he also passed this year.

434
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,399
Speaker 3: He did, he passed over the summer. Oh, and also

435
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 3: he was in Shrek. I mean, wait, who is he

436
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 3: in Shrek? His well, his Wikipedia picture. Maybe he just

437
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,120
Speaker 3: went to the Shrek premiere because his but look, if

438
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:40,119
Speaker 3: you go to his Wikipedia page, his Wikipedia picture is

439
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:43,639
Speaker 3: him at the premiere Shrek four.

440
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 2: I hope he's in one of the Shrek movies.

441
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 3: Though, that's so wild. I think it's even funnier he

442
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:56,399
Speaker 3: is not in Shrek four, So what was he doing there?

443
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 3: That is weird? Was Mira Sorvino and Shrek for was

444
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:05,359
Speaker 3: he supporting? Is not?

445
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:12,440
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, she wasn't in it, Paul after, Yeah, he's

446
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 2: just there.

447
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,879
Speaker 3: No one in the family was in Shrek for what?

448
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 2: Maybe he just loves Shrek.

449
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:23,199
Speaker 3: Now this is a mystery I could get really involved in,

450
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 3: because Paul Sorvina is like a legend. Like he's not

451
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:31,400
Speaker 3: going for exposure. He's not going to He's not going

452
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 3: the way that like Carrie would go to things that

453
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:35,679
Speaker 3: sex and the city to see and be seen at

454
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 3: the pair of Shrek forever after. That is so bizarre. Anyways, Paul,

455
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,880
Speaker 3: I love it though, also a legend. Yes, shout out

456
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:44,400
Speaker 3: mister Paul.

457
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:51,440
Speaker 2: Okay Henry Hill, he admires all these mob guys, especially Polly.

458
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:56,160
Speaker 2: Henry's explaining how everything works, how he learned the ropes,

459
00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 2: how everyone in the neighborhood came to respect him because

460
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 2: of who he was a phillyd with. He eventually meets

461
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 2: Jimmy Conway played by Robert.

462
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 3: De Niro, and then we're like, Okay, this movie's about

463
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 3: to be about fathers and sons. Yet again, we had

464
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 3: a father figure, we had a son figure. Got it.

465
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:17,880
Speaker 2: He also meets young Tommy before he's played by Joe

466
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 2: Pesci and I must say the guy who they got

467
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 2: to play young Tommy and the young actor who they

468
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:27,360
Speaker 2: got to play teenage Henry Hill. They did a really

469
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:32,159
Speaker 2: good job finding young actors who very closely resemble I

470
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,440
Speaker 2: thought that Juliota and Joe Peshi.

471
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:37,920
Speaker 3: Yeah good. I thought it was a good casting all around. Yeah,

472
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 3: God you got you just gotta love Joe Peshi shout out.

473
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 2: To know he's despicable, but shout out to his iconic

474
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 2: Christmas album. Remember that?

475
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wonder if is it allowed for us to

476
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,200
Speaker 3: play it out it's the Matreon because this is kind

477
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 3: of our episode that comes out as close to the

478
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 3: to observe Christmas. I mean, would it be Christmas without

479
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 3: Joe Peshi's Christmas Album? Probably not?

480
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 2: Probably not. No. Also, never forget that Goodfellas and Home

481
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 2: Alone come out the same year, nineteen ninety.

482
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,719
Speaker 3: Yes, this is his banner year and he wins. So

483
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,440
Speaker 3: the spoiler with Joe Peschi, he wins an oscar this year.

484
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 3: One of us is like, but not for the movie,

485
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 3: you would exect for Home alone alone.

486
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:32,679
Speaker 2: Okay, huge year for him, wow, enormous. Yes.

487
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:33,400
Speaker 3: Yeah.

488
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 2: So Henry meets these people and one day he gets

489
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 2: arrested for selling stolen cartons of cigarettes. And during his

490
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 2: day in court, he didn't give up any names because,

491
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 2: as Jimmy tells him, you never rat on your friends

492
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 2: and you always keep your mouth shut. We cut to

493
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 2: eight years later. Henry has grown up to be Ray Liotta,

494
00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 2: Tommy is Joe Peshi. They're still doing mobs stuff. They're

495
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 2: stealing a lot and reselling it. We get that.

496
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 3: Oh sorry, let me let this fucking siren pass. The

497
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 3: name of the album is just a refinder. Vincent LaGuardia

498
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 3: Gambini sings just for you. I love it.

499
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 2: Is that his like musical persona.

500
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 3: I guess so wait, hold on, I just got to

501
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 3: refresh my memory and.

502
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 4: What the work shut games and it's like to bring

503
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 4: them to theirs.

504
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 3: He just.

505
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 5: Vincent LaGuardia Gambini is so funny, amazing, oh man, okay,

506
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 5: bless him all right, So we get the very famous

507
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 5: scene where Henry tells Tommy that he's funny after Tommy

508
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:03,960
Speaker 5: has told the amusing story and then Tommy's like funny.

509
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 2: How and he seems really mad, but it turns out

510
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 2: he's just goofin' because these guys love to.

511
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 3: Goof One thing I love about this movie in contrast

512
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 3: to the Godfather is that Goodfellas is far less interested

513
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 3: in like I feel like it's Goodfellas makes it all

514
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 3: look more realistically like messy and petty and like emotionally

515
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 3: driven and like, hmm, it is organized crime, but it's

516
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 3: like not super organized.

517
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 2: It's pretty sloppy, right a lot of the time.

518
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 3: And yeah, and it's like it where it's like there's

519
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 3: so much of The Godfather And I don't know even

520
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 3: mean this as a negative, but it's just really different

521
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 3: the way it portrays the same world in the like

522
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 3: basically the same area of like I don't know, Like

523
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 3: I feel like there's all these scenes in The Godfather

524
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 3: that is supposed to like lay out to the audience like, well,

525
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 3: this family has a conflict with this family but that's

526
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 3: in conflict with this and they're kind of like really

527
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 3: laying out what everyone's relationship to each other, their crime

528
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 3: wise is, where like this movie is like you do

529
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 3: get that information, but it's not like it's more focused

530
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 3: on like how mob activity affects people in your life

531
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 3: versus this is how the mob.

532
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 2: Works, right, which I appreciate.

533
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's awesome.

534
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 2: So then Henry meets this woman Karen played by Lorraine

535
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 2: Bracco because Tommy wants to go on a date with

536
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 2: another woman who won't go out with Tommy unless it's

537
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 2: a double date.

538
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 3: Right, So oh do we because we just did Batman

539
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 3: Returns the other day and Danny DeVito is canonically thirty

540
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 3: three in that movie. I do feel that it's important

541
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 3: that Robert de Niro is introduced as being twenty eight

542
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 3: or twenty nine at the beginning of the movie.

543
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 2: That is very funny. And Rayleota is at the beginning

544
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 2: of the movie, like Henry Hill twenty one. Yeah, Rayleota

545
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 2: is twenty one at the beginning of the movie.

546
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 3: I think Lorraine Broncos must be even younger. They're both

547
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 3: in their mid to late thirties, but whatever.

548
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 2: You know, movie, Yeah, right, So Henry and Karen go

549
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 2: on this double date with Tommy and this other woman.

550
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 2: Henry and Karen get off to a rocky start, but

551
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 2: like she gives him a second chance, he takes her

552
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 2: out to all these fancy dinners. He knows a bunch

553
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 2: of people. He's flinging money around, and she's very impressed. Yeah,

554
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 2: so they stick together. Meanwhile, he makes a really big

555
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 2: score stealing cash from an airplane.

556
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 3: Do you think it's the one now that the Minions

557
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 3: oh hijack?

558
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 2: I think it's the same.

559
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 3: What year with that event? Are we in like nineteen

560
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 3: seventy now or are we not there yet?

561
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 2: Uh? It's I think around eight ish to ten years

562
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 2: after nineteen fifty five, so it would be like the

563
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 2: mid sixties, I want to say.

564
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 3: I'm trying to remember. I'm pretty sure that Minyon's Rise

565
00:32:56,120 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 3: of Grew happens in the early seventies. So okay, not

566
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 3: quite line up, but pretty close. Pretty close and not inconceivable,

567
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 3: is all I'll say. Because the Minions hijacked a plane

568
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 3: sometime in the late nineteen sixties early nineteen seventies.

569
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 2: I think it could be the same one.

570
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 3: Nothing bad happened, they landed the plane. Worst thing that happened,

571
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 3: Stewart got stocked into the toilet, but he ended up fine.

572
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 2: He's fine.

573
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 3: Yep. Anyways, just an interesting synchronicity, thought it pointed out.

574
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, I love it. So they score a

575
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 2: lot of money from this airplane heist, and Karen comes

576
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 2: to understand what Henry actually does for a living. She's

577
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 2: pretty cool with it. We'll talk all about that. But

578
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 2: they get married, and we switch points of view from

579
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:53,959
Speaker 2: like Henry's voiceover to Karen's voiceover and perspective as we

580
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 2: see her get like acclimated to the quote unquote mob

581
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 2: wife or mob his wife life style.

582
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 3: Mob his wife his life. Yeah, exactly that scene. I

583
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 3: do like how that how Karen present Like that's so

584
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:15,879
Speaker 3: alarming to be suddenly dropped into like a bunch of

585
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 3: mob wives just casually discussing like children dying, and she's

586
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 3: just like there's a lot to talk about that scene.

587
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:25,280
Speaker 3: But I for sure I love Karen.

588
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:29,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, root for her. One night, Henry, Jimmy and Tommy

589
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 2: beat the shit out of this mob guy, Billy Bats,

590
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 2: who had insulted Tommy and Tommy. We know is like

591
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 2: he's kind of a loose cannon. He's very reactionary and

592
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:43,240
Speaker 2: he has an extremely fragile ego.

593
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 3: He's Joseph Peshi.

594
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 2: It's true. So Tommy kills Billy Bats and they throw

595
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:51,800
Speaker 2: him in the trunk of Henry's car and start driving

596
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:56,280
Speaker 2: to like bury his body. They stop at Tommy's mom's house,

597
00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:01,399
Speaker 2: who is played by Catherine Scorseis aka Martin Scorsese's mom.

598
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 2: She's so good, so good, so cute.

599
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,360
Speaker 3: I think my favorite I love that it was like improvised.

600
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,239
Speaker 3: But the favorite exchange in the movie is when Joe

601
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 3: fad She's like, you got one dog vasion this way,

602
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:17,319
Speaker 3: you got one dog vasion. He had a way.

603
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 2: I like it. She's like, yeah, one dog's facing east,

604
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:22,720
Speaker 2: the other dog's facing west.

605
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:26,080
Speaker 3: In my mind, I'm like, that's where he got the oscar.

606
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:28,719
Speaker 3: You think anyone could do that?

607
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 2: No, No, So they chat and eat with her and

608
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 2: then they get back on the road and then this

609
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:38,800
Speaker 2: is the scene we see at the very beginning where

610
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:42,320
Speaker 2: they open the trunk and kill the guy then bury

611
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 2: his body. But this Billy Bats guy was a made man.

612
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 2: He was like untouchable, so to speak. So now his

613
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 2: people are looking for him and our friends will get

614
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:57,880
Speaker 2: in a big trouble if they find his dead body

615
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 2: and the spot in upstate New York where they buried him.

616
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:08,239
Speaker 2: That property had been sold and is being developed into condos,

617
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 2: so they have to go and dig up the body

618
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:15,319
Speaker 2: and move it somewhere else. We learn that Henry and

619
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:19,240
Speaker 2: most of the other guys are cheating on their wives.

620
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 3: Their wives right on Fridays.

621
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 2: Right, They all have girlfriends who they take to the

622
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:29,240
Speaker 2: same club that they take their wives too on Saturday Nights, Diabolical.

623
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:36,759
Speaker 2: Henry's girlfriend is Janice. Karen starts to realize what's going on,

624
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:41,759
Speaker 2: that he's cheating on her. They argue, Henry gaslights her.

625
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:46,879
Speaker 2: Then Karen goes to Janice and screams at her. Then

626
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:49,400
Speaker 2: Karen puts a gun in Henry's face and threatens to

627
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:54,840
Speaker 2: kill him. He fights back. He's very physically abusive. He

628
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 2: threatens to shoot her. That is happening.

629
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:02,239
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, we'll get on around that whole discussion.

630
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:08,880
Speaker 2: Yeah. Meanwhile, our friend Tommy is flying off the handle

631
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:14,400
Speaker 2: a lot lately. He shoots and kills one of their

632
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 2: little minions, Spider, So things are a bit precarious for

633
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 2: the boys. Yeah, the fellas Joey's gone off leash. It's true. Yeah,

634
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 2: Henry and Jimmy do a job in Tampa, but they

635
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 2: get caught and have to go to jail. But because

636
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 2: they're in the mob, they get to go to a

637
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 2: special prison room.

638
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 3: They get to go like jail where you only get

639
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:45,200
Speaker 3: to hang out with your friends and like pasta, and.

640
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:47,400
Speaker 2: You have like a little apartment and there's a kitchen

641
00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:49,759
Speaker 2: and they cook all the time. I think it's so

642
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:53,920
Speaker 2: funny that there's like a solid, like five minute chunk

643
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,320
Speaker 2: of the movie where it's just like them talking about

644
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 2: all the food that they make, yeah, and like ingredients

645
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:02,400
Speaker 2: being smuggled in and all that stuff.

646
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:05,080
Speaker 3: I liked that section, and I wonder, I mean, I

647
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:08,919
Speaker 3: have we don't read books, but no, I really appreciate

648
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 3: even more so it seems like, I would say, quite

649
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 3: a bit more so than The Godfather, that this movie

650
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:18,719
Speaker 3: is like so based in research. I was like, Oh,

651
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:22,799
Speaker 3: I wonder what the actual historical precedent for like mob

652
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:24,719
Speaker 3: guys going to jail and just hanging out with each

653
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 3: other was. I believe that it happened. I just like

654
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,400
Speaker 3: don't know any specifics. It's fascinating.

655
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 2: Yup, So Karen is like sneaking at a bunch of

656
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 2: food to Henry in jail. She's also sneaking in drugs,

657
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:42,759
Speaker 2: which Henry has started to sell. I don't know if

658
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 2: he's selling them in prison or he's somehow like moving

659
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 2: them from prison.

660
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:50,880
Speaker 3: He's got some sort of operation going, and he's starting

661
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 3: to skim a little off. He's starting to get high

662
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 3: in his own supply. As they say, it's true.

663
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:00,720
Speaker 2: He gets out of prison four years later and Polly

664
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 2: is like, hey, Henry, stop selling drugs. So he in

665
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 2: a way is a lot like Vito Corleone, because he's like,

666
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:12,239
Speaker 2: drugs are bad, Say no to drugs, and Henry's like,

667
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:15,319
Speaker 2: I don't even know what you're talking about selling.

668
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 3: What can possibly go wrong?

669
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 2: Meanwhile, Henry is trafficking cocaine from Pittsburgh and selling at

670
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 2: other places. He's having his new girlfriend, Sandy played by

671
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:33,359
Speaker 2: Debbie Maser, mix the cocaine and he's making a lot

672
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 2: of money and he also brings in Jimmy and Tommy

673
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 2: to help. Meanwhile, they're also planning and they managed to

674
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 2: pull off another huge airplane heist, the Luftanza heist, where

675
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:51,759
Speaker 2: they get several million dollars but this guy Morey who sells.

676
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 3: Wigs is iconic, iconic wig commercial. Love it so much,

677
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 3: it's really good. Maury is busting Jimmy's balls, as they say,

678
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:08,279
Speaker 3: because he's like, where's my money? You didn't give me

679
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 3: my money yet? Yeah, Maury thinks he's a player. But Jimmy,

680
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:17,520
Speaker 3: Jimmy is getting sick of Maury's shit, and Henry's trying

681
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:20,719
Speaker 3: to help him out. He's like, cool it. Maury Moore

682
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:23,439
Speaker 3: is like, it's all right, I'll cool it, and it's

683
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 3: like but then he doesn't. Then he doesn't quite enough.

684
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 2: And what happens to Maury, Well, Jimmy wax him.

685
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:32,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, Jimmy, Well, he left Jimmy with no choice.

686
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 2: It's true.

687
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:38,440
Speaker 3: I'm on Jimmy's side.

688
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 2: Justice for Jimmy. Jimmy also kills or has basically everyone

689
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 2: involved in this this big robbery killed, so that the

690
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 2: Feds like couldn't trace this heist back to Jimmy. Meanwhile,

691
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:56,920
Speaker 2: Tommy is about to become a made man, which Jimmy's

692
00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 2: really excited about because it'll be good for them to

693
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 2: help either.

694
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:02,839
Speaker 3: Is he about to be well, actually, I forget where

695
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:04,279
Speaker 3: they're living at this point. I was like, is he

696
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 3: about to be made in Manhattan?

697
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 2: Oh okay, I don't think they're really hanging out in Manhattan, I.

698
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 3: Know, but little little, too fancy, but he's being made

699
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 3: near Manhattan.

700
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:25,280
Speaker 2: That there there you go. Yeah, that's that's the sequel.

701
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:27,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that was a that was a worthy

702
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 3: detour to explore.

703
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:32,719
Speaker 2: Thank You, No, I think no, Jamie, thank you.

704
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:36,719
Speaker 3: And rayleioa new Jennifer Lopez. It's all connected.

705
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 2: Makes you think, It makes you think. Okay, so Tommy

706
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:46,400
Speaker 2: being a made man will be a good thing for

707
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:51,919
Speaker 2: Jimmy and Henry, but oh no, it's a trap. And

708
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 2: the people who were gonna, you know, make Tommy actually

709
00:41:55,840 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 2: kill him and it's revenge for Tommy killing Billy Batts.

710
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:03,719
Speaker 3: Again Tommy horrible. And we'll get to why in a bit.

711
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 3: But the but Joe Pashy's last like, what does he

712
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:10,600
Speaker 3: what does he say right before? It's just like so

713
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:16,000
Speaker 3: he's like, oh no shit, yeah yeah, so and then

714
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 3: his head is just it's so like this movie's use

715
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:22,720
Speaker 3: of violence is really If I had like more time

716
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:25,920
Speaker 3: to prep Slash, I had more than five brain cells,

717
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:28,640
Speaker 3: I would I would understand more. But like I just

718
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:32,440
Speaker 3: really I liked this movie is like it seems like

719
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:36,920
Speaker 3: Scorsese was like really carefully choosing when to show explicit

720
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:39,920
Speaker 3: violence and when not to, Like, it's not just an

721
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:42,440
Speaker 3: all out bloodbath. A lot of the violence takes place

722
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:45,319
Speaker 3: like out of frame or off screen, and you like,

723
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 3: hear it, but you don't see it. But but when Tommy,

724
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:52,399
Speaker 3: when Tommy gets whacked, they want you to see Joe

725
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:59,640
Speaker 3: Pashy's head blop like it is, Oh shit, it's good.

726
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:03,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's good stuff.

727
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 3: Yeah.

728
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:09,480
Speaker 2: So Tommy is murdered and Jimmy is very upset. Things

729
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:12,319
Speaker 2: are falling apart for him. Henry is getting more and

730
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:17,360
Speaker 2: more addicted to cocaine. Then there's this day where Henry

731
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 2: has a bunch of stuff to do. He's gotta unload

732
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:24,239
Speaker 2: a big shipment of coke. Sandy is helping him mix it,

733
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:26,719
Speaker 2: so he's got to go over there. His old babysitter,

734
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:29,480
Speaker 2: Lois is helping him transport it, so he has to

735
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:32,840
Speaker 2: organize stuff with her. There's a helicopter following him around

736
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 2: all day. He's got to go pick up his brother

737
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:37,239
Speaker 2: and then take his brother home, and he's got to

738
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:40,080
Speaker 2: make this sauce for the pasta for this big dinner

739
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 2: that he's cooking all this stuff.

740
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:45,840
Speaker 3: And Pechi's and peeschi. I thought it was like doing

741
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:49,200
Speaker 3: a pretty amazing job of like doing all the vo

742
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:51,719
Speaker 3: for this, as if he was on cocaine while he

743
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:57,280
Speaker 3: was explaining it too, like it's rale. Sorry, got whacked,

744
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 3: She got whacked bombed, He's gone. Flea's Flee was again.

745
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:05,880
Speaker 3: He's just been a little movie buff recently. He was

746
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 3: a loving good fellas. He planted the whole damn movie.

747
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:15,400
Speaker 3: He cheered when Karen left Henry, we were both cheering.

748
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:19,640
Speaker 3: It was great. See please Flee is slowly transitioning into

749
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 3: being a lab cat. He wasn't a lab cat, but

750
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:28,080
Speaker 3: now in his advanced age aka three, he's a little

751
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:33,160
Speaker 3: lab cat. Now. Sorry, I meant Rayleioda. I thought was

752
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 3: doing a great coke fueled narration.

753
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Yeah, it's he's gonna These are all great performances. Yeah,

754
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 2: it's true. So this very chaotic day is happening, and

755
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:47,759
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, Henry gets busted by

756
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:52,000
Speaker 2: the Feds. They throw him in jail. Karen is able

757
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:55,640
Speaker 2: to bail Henry out by having her mother sell her house.

758
00:44:56,120 --> 00:45:01,880
Speaker 2: Oh my god, devastating. Yeah, but when Henry returns home

759
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:04,520
Speaker 2: to sell all of that cocaine, it was like sixty

760
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:07,160
Speaker 2: thousand dollars worth. Karen is like, well, I had to

761
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 2: flush that down the toilet because the cops were here

762
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:12,120
Speaker 2: and they had a search warrant and they would have

763
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:15,840
Speaker 2: found it. And Henry pitches a fit because that was

764
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:19,920
Speaker 2: their one prospect. They have no other money. Polly won't

765
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 2: help him because Polly says no to drugs. It seems

766
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:27,760
Speaker 2: like Jimmy might be trying to whack Karen and Henry

767
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 2: so they have no one they can turn to.

768
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:34,040
Speaker 3: Broke my heart because that scene, I mean, and I

769
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 3: feel like a lot of our conversation is gonna be

770
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:40,319
Speaker 3: on Karen. But like Karen, I just like she and

771
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:44,400
Speaker 3: I like I like that she is not like perfect,

772
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:47,080
Speaker 3: Like she fucks up and she can be pretty hard,

773
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:50,400
Speaker 3: I think, especially like the moment she chooses to involve

774
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 3: her children is like she's like not an amazing parent,

775
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:57,440
Speaker 3: but also she's like set up for just a life

776
00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:01,000
Speaker 3: of pain and misery. Like but I like that scene

777
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:03,840
Speaker 3: with Jimmy at first, like it. It was the most

778
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:07,200
Speaker 3: affection I had seen her be given in the entire movie,

779
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 3: the way that Jimmy talks to her and like asks

780
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 3: her how she is, showed like offers her a gift

781
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:17,480
Speaker 3: that you don't think at least in like that moment.

782
00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:20,439
Speaker 3: And maybe I'm like the most foolish person of all time,

783
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 3: but I was like, oh wow, Like it seems like

784
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:25,640
Speaker 3: for a second, it's like the first time someone is

785
00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 3: giving her something without expecting something in return, and it's

786
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:34,560
Speaker 3: like he's treating yeah, yeah, and you're like, oh, finally,

787
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:38,560
Speaker 3: like someone is fucking nice to Karen. And then two

788
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:41,200
Speaker 3: seconds and like you can see how much it means

789
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:44,520
Speaker 3: to her that he asked her like how her mother

790
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 3: is and like all this stuff, and then and then

791
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:49,680
Speaker 3: it's like, oh, he was just doing that to set

792
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:53,280
Speaker 3: her up to be fucking murdered. Like it's just yeah,

793
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:56,480
Speaker 3: uh that scene broke my damn heart because I was like,

794
00:46:56,560 --> 00:47:00,399
Speaker 3: finally someone gives Karen the time of day. But it's

795
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 3: only because they're like and that's the last thing that's

796
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:05,120
Speaker 3: ever gonna happen to you, Like what the fuck? Man?

797
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:07,399
Speaker 2: Yeah no, no, no, it's.

798
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:08,840
Speaker 3: These mob guys. They're not very nice.

799
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 2: They're kind of not nice.

800
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:12,800
Speaker 3: They're meanies. They're meanies.

801
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:19,120
Speaker 2: Good goodfellas more like mean fellas anyway.

802
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:21,759
Speaker 3: Clee, what do you think exactly?

803
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:27,240
Speaker 2: So Henry has no one he can turn to. He's broke,

804
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:29,880
Speaker 2: and he has no choice but to cooperate with the

805
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:36,400
Speaker 2: Feds and rat out his friends. So we see Jimmy, Polly,

806
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:39,480
Speaker 2: all of those guys get arrested, and then we get

807
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:43,360
Speaker 2: that famous closing scene where they're in the courtroom. Henry

808
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:46,239
Speaker 2: names names, he sells out his friends, and then he

809
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:49,240
Speaker 2: breaks the fourth wall and talks directly to the camera,

810
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:53,520
Speaker 2: and then we see him living a very like typical

811
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:57,600
Speaker 2: suburban American life in the witness Protection program.

812
00:47:57,640 --> 00:47:59,360
Speaker 3: Which Karen opted out of.

813
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:03,880
Speaker 2: Oh well, I know, She's like, I'm not sure if

814
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:05,640
Speaker 2: I want to do that or not, but I couldn't

815
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 2: tell if I was.

816
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 3: I saw oh see. My impression was she opted out it.

817
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:12,319
Speaker 3: Maybe that's not can't actually listeners sound off in the car?

818
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:15,800
Speaker 3: I actually don't. I my impression was that she I

819
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 3: could see it going dif a couple of different ways,

820
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:20,120
Speaker 3: because like she basically it seemed like in the scene

821
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 3: which stars an actual cop weirdly, which whatever, that's just

822
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:27,279
Speaker 3: like a context thing that we can talk about. It's

823
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:30,360
Speaker 3: not like a but whatever. It seems like she is

824
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:34,760
Speaker 3: given the choice of like choosing her parents or her husband.

825
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:38,399
Speaker 3: And then it says later in like the Posts Where

826
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:41,400
Speaker 3: Are They Now thing, that she separated from him in

827
00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:44,960
Speaker 3: eighty nine. But I could see that being either she

828
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:48,759
Speaker 3: did do witness protection and then left him or she

829
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:53,080
Speaker 3: just like technically stayed married to him and then separated

830
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:55,560
Speaker 3: after not going to witness protection.

831
00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:59,200
Speaker 2: I interpret it as because I think he goes into

832
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:03,560
Speaker 2: witness protection in the early eighties, he gets arrested like

833
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:08,120
Speaker 2: five years later for some other drug conspiracy thing in

834
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:09,359
Speaker 2: like nineteen eighty five.

835
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:13,240
Speaker 3: I think, do you think that's like she she stays

836
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:14,920
Speaker 3: for a little bit longer and then bails.

837
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:17,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then she's like, I've had it.

838
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:19,680
Speaker 3: I liked it better in my head. I liked it

839
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 3: better in my head because she loves her family so like,

840
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 3: she loves her parents so much. Well, I hope she

841
00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:29,840
Speaker 3: went back with them. Yeah, I wonder what became of Karen.

842
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:33,800
Speaker 3: She became Tony Soprano's therapist. She can't escape?

843
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:36,879
Speaker 2: Well that makes sense, yeah, yeah, I mean she knew

844
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:39,319
Speaker 2: a lot about the mob, she sure did.

845
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:40,680
Speaker 3: So that's the movie.

846
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:53,000
Speaker 2: I mean, for me, I feel like a lot of

847
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:57,719
Speaker 2: the criticisms that we had about The Godfather, which was,

848
00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:02,240
Speaker 2: like the movie fails to offer any significant character development

849
00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:07,200
Speaker 2: or perspective for the women who exist in this specific

850
00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:14,399
Speaker 2: world and like overly glorifying the lifestyle without offering enough

851
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:18,640
Speaker 2: critique of it. I feel like Good Fellas handles these

852
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:22,279
Speaker 2: things not perfectly but but better.

853
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 3: Certain but like attempts to handle it like yeah, yeah,

854
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:31,839
Speaker 3: I feel like there's still was more room for I mean,

855
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:34,879
Speaker 3: there's always more room for, you know, like women's perspectives

856
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:39,920
Speaker 3: inside of this genre because for all the like I mean,

857
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:42,759
Speaker 3: and I think I said all I had to say

858
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:44,640
Speaker 3: about it at the beginning, but I would be curious.

859
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:47,239
Speaker 3: I mean, if if there's more to say them, let's

860
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:50,279
Speaker 3: say it. But like I feel like, you know, when

861
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:54,280
Speaker 3: someone is talking your ear off about Goodfellas, they're usually

862
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:58,920
Speaker 3: not talking about Karen at all, which I don't think

863
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:02,800
Speaker 3: is necessarily like the fault of the filmmaker, but I

864
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:05,880
Speaker 3: but it is like this, It's it's weird because I like,

865
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:09,360
Speaker 3: based on how I've been spoken to about Good Fellows

866
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:11,320
Speaker 3: over the years, I wouldn't have expected Karen to have

867
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:15,160
Speaker 3: as prominent a part as she does, and I think

868
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:18,480
Speaker 3: that her part is like she's amazed, like I I've

869
00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:20,120
Speaker 3: can we talk about.

870
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:21,839
Speaker 2: Karen, Let's talk about Karen? Yeah?

871
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:22,200
Speaker 3: Care?

872
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:24,920
Speaker 2: But well, I think speaking to what you're saying, it's

873
00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:28,800
Speaker 2: like the biases of the you know, fan base or

874
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:31,319
Speaker 2: the audience members who are like, well, yeah, I guess

875
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:34,160
Speaker 2: there's like some woman in the movie, but I'm not

876
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:36,080
Speaker 2: I don't care about her, even if she does have

877
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:39,160
Speaker 2: a prominent role in the story, or even like Karen,

878
00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:41,800
Speaker 2: about what's going on with the well the boys, or

879
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:42,400
Speaker 2: even not like.

880
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:45,160
Speaker 3: That actively like who cares about women? But just like

881
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:48,319
Speaker 3: they just don't think to like write, I don't know, yeah,

882
00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:50,239
Speaker 3: like because of those biases, like they they're like, oh,

883
00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:53,239
Speaker 3: I'm I'm just inherently more interested in what's going on

884
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:56,240
Speaker 3: with Joe Peshi, even though I would argue like Karen

885
00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:59,560
Speaker 3: has like I think one of the clearest strongest arcs

886
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:03,400
Speaker 3: in the higher movie. Oh for sure, she's just I

887
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:07,520
Speaker 3: just I just like the lady. I think she's a it's.

888
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:09,759
Speaker 2: Awesome and I do so like And this is a

889
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:12,680
Speaker 2: part of the book Wise Guy that is the source

890
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:16,560
Speaker 2: material for this movie. And while most of the movie

891
00:52:16,719 --> 00:52:20,719
Speaker 2: is accompanied by Henry's voiceover, and it's told from his

892
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:24,240
Speaker 2: point of view. There are significant portions of the movie

893
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:27,880
Speaker 2: where the point of view shifts and we hear Karen's

894
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:31,239
Speaker 2: voiceover and we get a look into Karen's thoughts and

895
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:33,400
Speaker 2: feelings and perspective.

896
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:37,600
Speaker 3: It really cool. I mean, it is like and I

897
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:41,040
Speaker 3: feel like, you know, you do only get and I

898
00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:44,600
Speaker 3: think there was I don't have the window in front

899
00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:48,520
Speaker 3: of me. But in the comments of our Godfather Madrianne episode,

900
00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:51,000
Speaker 3: there was a listener who pointed out, I think very

901
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:54,520
Speaker 3: ratefully so that like, it's not that there are not

902
00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:57,920
Speaker 3: a lot of mob movies centered around women, because there

903
00:52:57,960 --> 00:53:01,920
Speaker 3: have never been women mobsters. There have been women mobsters.

904
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:07,040
Speaker 3: So it isn't even like a decent excuse to say, like, oh, well,

905
00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:10,000
Speaker 3: that's why this genre tends to be centered around men.

906
00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:15,759
Speaker 3: It's like, as usual, men's stories are prioritized historically, which

907
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:18,160
Speaker 3: weirdly this movie kind of says at the end, which

908
00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:21,840
Speaker 3: I thought was interesting. But in anyways, like in The Godfather,

909
00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:25,480
Speaker 3: you get Connie and Kay, both of whom have fascinating

910
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 3: story arcs that are not depicted on screen and are

911
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:34,440
Speaker 3: not I don't think, like considered to be important by

912
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:38,960
Speaker 3: the writers, by the filmmakers. It seems like Scarsace feels

913
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:43,120
Speaker 3: differently about this Scarscean Polegie, I mean, how is Nicholas

914
00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:46,279
Speaker 3: Polegi gonna go home to Nora Efron and say I

915
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:50,680
Speaker 3: didn't write a female character? Hello, all I had to say,

916
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:53,960
Speaker 3: I think that there was still room for more sure

917
00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:57,320
Speaker 3: women because it's like you get one like in The

918
00:53:57,400 --> 00:54:02,719
Speaker 3: Godfather you get two interesting but basically absent female characters.

919
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:06,759
Speaker 3: And Goodfellas you get one great female character and then

920
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:09,600
Speaker 3: a couple of other women who seem interesting. It seems

921
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:11,040
Speaker 3: like there's a lot going on with them, but we

922
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:15,320
Speaker 3: don't have time kind of thing. But yeah, I mean Karen,

923
00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:20,279
Speaker 3: I thought it was interesting. Lorraine Brocco has done, you know,

924
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:23,920
Speaker 3: a number of interviews about this part over the years.

925
00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:27,879
Speaker 3: I obviously didn't watch all of them, but I did

926
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:31,120
Speaker 3: like there is kind of this theme and how she

927
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:34,759
Speaker 3: talks about Karen where she's unequivocally like, no, Karen is

928
00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:39,759
Speaker 3: an abused like everything, all of her decisions and her behavior,

929
00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:42,759
Speaker 3: like when I was playing the part and I and

930
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:45,440
Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure she says in an interview with them,

931
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:47,719
Speaker 3: I think it was like the British Film Academy. She's

932
00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:49,320
Speaker 3: just like I think that it was like written to

933
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:54,160
Speaker 3: be you know, she's an abused spouse, and like that's

934
00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:57,080
Speaker 3: how I played her, That's how I thought of her,

935
00:54:57,160 --> 00:54:59,160
Speaker 3: and I think that that's how, you know, I was

936
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:01,680
Speaker 3: supposed to be thinking about her, and I think that

937
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:07,520
Speaker 3: that reads pretty clearly in a way that like she's

938
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:10,520
Speaker 3: facing a lot of the same issues that Connie is

939
00:55:10,719 --> 00:55:15,960
Speaker 3: in The Godfather, but like this has it ky like

940
00:55:16,120 --> 00:55:18,280
Speaker 3: but yeah, right, because it's like I was thinking about

941
00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:23,040
Speaker 3: kind of a similar scene. It plays out differently, but

942
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:26,480
Speaker 3: like there's a scene in The Godfather where Kay asks

943
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:28,839
Speaker 3: Michael at the very beginning when he's still like good

944
00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:32,680
Speaker 3: boy Michael, and she's like what is going on here?

945
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:35,960
Speaker 3: Like what is happening here? And he's still good boy Michael.

946
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:40,080
Speaker 3: So he's like, my family's bad, but I'm good. And

947
00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:41,399
Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure that is the line.

948
00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:43,120
Speaker 2: He says, No, that's a direct quote.

949
00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:45,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's a famous line.

950
00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:50,560
Speaker 2: There's leave the gun, take the Canoli's and then it's

951
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:53,720
Speaker 2: like my family's bad, but I'm good, two most famous

952
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:54,719
Speaker 2: quotes from The god.

953
00:55:54,960 --> 00:55:57,839
Speaker 3: I didn't finish the quote. He says, my family's bad,

954
00:55:57,880 --> 00:55:59,839
Speaker 3: but I'm good. And then he pauses, there's a beat,

955
00:55:59,840 --> 00:56:04,520
Speaker 3: and he says, for now that is. It's a really

956
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:07,200
Speaker 3: famous line from Michael Corleon.

957
00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:09,399
Speaker 2: It's really good.

958
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:16,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's kind of. It's this cinematic tool called foreshadowing.

959
00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:20,560
Speaker 2: And oh interesting, Okay, I think I learned about that

960
00:56:20,760 --> 00:56:23,839
Speaker 2: as I was getting a master's degree in screenwriting, something

961
00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:24,759
Speaker 2: I would never mention.

962
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:26,960
Speaker 3: They don't tell you an undergrad. They don't tell you

963
00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:30,040
Speaker 3: an undergrad. You do have to go back to be

964
00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:33,000
Speaker 3: able to understand the richness of for now that is?

965
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:40,360
Speaker 3: And Pacino sells it. But there's a similar scene towards

966
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:46,480
Speaker 3: the beginning of Goodfellas where it's pretty early into Henry

967
00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:50,000
Speaker 3: and Karen's relationship and Karen's like, what the fuck is this?

968
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:53,600
Speaker 3: And he lies to her, but she figures it out

969
00:56:54,040 --> 00:56:56,600
Speaker 3: very quickly, where I feel like the Godfather for some reason,

970
00:56:56,719 --> 00:56:59,520
Speaker 3: Kay is like it takes her so long to figure

971
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:02,640
Speaker 3: out what's going on, even though it's pretty obvious, but

972
00:57:03,160 --> 00:57:07,160
Speaker 3: Karen like has questions right away. I yeah, figures it

973
00:57:07,239 --> 00:57:08,160
Speaker 3: out pretty quickly.

974
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:11,919
Speaker 2: In the Godfather episode when we were like, why would

975
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:15,520
Speaker 2: Diane Keaton's character Kay, who did not grow up in

976
00:57:15,640 --> 00:57:19,360
Speaker 2: a mob family. Why would she stay with Michael knowing

977
00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:22,880
Speaker 2: that he's working his way up the mob ladder, Like

978
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:26,600
Speaker 2: all of these questions that again would have been interesting

979
00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:29,800
Speaker 2: for that movie to explore, but The Godfather skips over

980
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:33,000
Speaker 2: all that. But in Goodfellas, there's a similar scenario. There

981
00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:36,840
Speaker 2: are similar scenes even like you said, but like Karen

982
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:41,720
Speaker 2: is from a you know, typical middle class American family,

983
00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:45,320
Speaker 2: has no dealings with the mob until she meets Henry,

984
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:47,920
Speaker 2: and we're like, okay, well, why would she stay with

985
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:52,360
Speaker 2: someone like that? Like that's a potentially dangerous situation. He's

986
00:57:52,520 --> 00:57:56,120
Speaker 2: not a good person. But Goodfellas offers a lot of

987
00:57:56,400 --> 00:58:01,480
Speaker 2: insights to her, her her feelings, her trajector, like everything

988
00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:05,320
Speaker 2: about it. There's that scene where Henry beats the crap

989
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:08,760
Speaker 2: out of this man who had assaulted Karen, and then

990
00:58:08,840 --> 00:58:12,240
Speaker 2: he hands her a gun to hide, and her voiceover

991
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:15,480
Speaker 2: says like, oh, I know there are women like my

992
00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:18,120
Speaker 2: best friends who would have gotten out of there the

993
00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:20,520
Speaker 2: minute their boyfriend gave them a gun to hide, But

994
00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:23,320
Speaker 2: I didn't. I got to admit the truth. It turned

995
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:27,120
Speaker 2: me on, And like that's like kind of simplifying things,

996
00:58:27,160 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 2: but I and I'm speculating here, But I feel like

997
00:58:31,080 --> 00:58:35,600
Speaker 2: it's that she found both like the gun and the

998
00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:38,760
Speaker 2: secrecy and just like a lot of stuff surrounding that

999
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:42,680
Speaker 2: whole situation. The idea that like she has a boyfriend

1000
00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:45,680
Speaker 2: who would be able to offer her protection against other men,

1001
00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:49,200
Speaker 2: Like all of that stuff is just like exciting and

1002
00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:53,960
Speaker 2: would appeal to not everyone obviously, but it appeals to her,

1003
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:57,600
Speaker 2: And she like says that, and that's the insight that

1004
00:58:57,720 --> 00:59:02,160
Speaker 2: we need to understand why someone would stay with a

1005
00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:04,080
Speaker 2: guy like Henry Hill, Right.

1006
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:05,760
Speaker 3: I mean it's like and and it's again, it's like

1007
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:09,400
Speaker 3: I like that she like opens it by being like, yeah,

1008
00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:13,920
Speaker 3: this obviously is not for everyone, but I think that, like, yeah,

1009
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:16,440
Speaker 3: the context of like she's lived it seems like a

1010
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:22,160
Speaker 3: pretty you know, quote unquote boring, safe life, and here

1011
00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:26,000
Speaker 3: is this exciting person. It's also like taking in the

1012
00:59:26,200 --> 00:59:30,400
Speaker 3: historical context of you know, this is I would imagine

1013
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:33,440
Speaker 3: like the early sixties, yeah, where it's like there's not

1014
00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:37,600
Speaker 3: as many options for quote unquote an exciting life available

1015
00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:41,600
Speaker 3: to women of this time. They're still very the very

1016
00:59:41,680 --> 00:59:44,160
Speaker 3: rigid expectation that you have to get married and have

1017
00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:47,640
Speaker 3: kids no matter what. And so if she's looked, I mean,

1018
00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:52,280
Speaker 3: and again like she's it's hard because the actors are

1019
00:59:52,360 --> 00:59:55,760
Speaker 3: very obviously like thirty six, but you're like, oh, she's

1020
00:59:55,800 --> 00:59:59,600
Speaker 3: also twenty one years old. Like right, It's like, you know,

1021
00:59:59,840 --> 01:00:03,600
Speaker 3: not inconceivable that anyone of any gender would just be like, oh,

1022
01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:07,320
Speaker 3: I'm I'm going out with some like exciting asshole because

1023
01:00:07,320 --> 01:00:09,680
Speaker 3: I'm twenty one and that's what twenty one year olds.

1024
01:00:09,520 --> 01:00:14,240
Speaker 2: Do, especially like a guy who has money, who has connections,

1025
01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:18,280
Speaker 2: who is respected by the people around him, who you know,

1026
01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:21,600
Speaker 2: pays for dinners and champagne and all this stuff. Like

1027
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:27,960
Speaker 2: again taking the historical context into consideration, where women relied

1028
01:00:28,120 --> 01:00:32,480
Speaker 2: on husbands for survival in a lot of cases because like,

1029
01:00:33,320 --> 01:00:36,920
Speaker 2: career opportunities were far more limited for women, in a

1030
01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:40,120
Speaker 2: way to support yourself as a woman was far more limited.

1031
01:00:41,080 --> 01:00:43,880
Speaker 2: Women have always been conditioned to be like, Okay, find

1032
01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:45,880
Speaker 2: a man who can provide for you. And this was

1033
01:00:45,960 --> 01:00:50,760
Speaker 2: clearly a man that could provide for her as she perceived.

1034
01:00:50,400 --> 01:00:52,640
Speaker 3: It, right, And it's like it would have been, I mean,

1035
01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:56,640
Speaker 3: it was it would have been interesting narratively to see

1036
01:00:56,920 --> 01:00:59,320
Speaker 3: a foil to that, because it's not like in the

1037
01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:01,960
Speaker 3: early sixties, a woman could not support herself or like

1038
01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:04,160
Speaker 3: sure could not go another way, and like that would

1039
01:01:04,200 --> 01:01:06,120
Speaker 3: have you know, been interesting to have some sort of

1040
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:10,880
Speaker 3: you know, alternative or or even even for Karen to

1041
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:13,760
Speaker 3: see of like, oh, it's not inconceivable that I could

1042
01:01:14,160 --> 01:01:16,120
Speaker 3: be on my own. But I feel like, yeah, you're

1043
01:01:16,120 --> 01:01:18,640
Speaker 3: giving the information you need as to like why she

1044
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:23,400
Speaker 3: gets sucked into this. I think in particular that moment

1045
01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:26,880
Speaker 3: where I guess everything. I mean, Henry is like a

1046
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:30,920
Speaker 3: horrible like Henry's a fucking scum bad, He's a bad fella.

1047
01:01:31,480 --> 01:01:35,479
Speaker 3: He's he's a bad fellow, he's a devil father, He's

1048
01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:41,520
Speaker 3: he's bad. But but right away, like it's very clear

1049
01:01:41,560 --> 01:01:45,360
Speaker 3: that like the way that Henry understands how to be

1050
01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:50,760
Speaker 3: in a relationship is with Muny, like is protecting with

1051
01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:52,080
Speaker 3: money and violence.

1052
01:01:52,560 --> 01:01:54,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, now, not an.

1053
01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:59,200
Speaker 3: Armchair psychologist, a person who doesn't exist, although actually Henry

1054
01:01:59,240 --> 01:02:02,000
Speaker 3: Hell did technically exist, but fictional Henry Hill.

1055
01:02:02,240 --> 01:02:06,680
Speaker 2: Now put yourself in the shoes of Lorraine Broco as

1056
01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:13,080
Speaker 2: the therapist in Sopranos, and please psychoanalyze.

1057
01:02:12,240 --> 01:02:15,080
Speaker 3: In a way I'm in my I'm in my Lorraine bag.

1058
01:02:15,720 --> 01:02:19,720
Speaker 3: But like you get the context you need for I mean,

1059
01:02:19,760 --> 01:02:22,400
Speaker 3: and he's a horrible person, and this doesn't excuse the behavior,

1060
01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:24,760
Speaker 3: but I like that you get the context for why

1061
01:02:24,880 --> 01:02:28,320
Speaker 3: Henry is such a piece of shit spouse. Also because

1062
01:02:28,560 --> 01:02:32,320
Speaker 3: he was physically abused by his own father, he grew

1063
01:02:32,440 --> 01:02:36,000
Speaker 3: up seeing his father be deeply resentful of his station

1064
01:02:36,160 --> 01:02:39,280
Speaker 3: and life class wise, and I think what you often

1065
01:02:39,480 --> 01:02:44,000
Speaker 3: see in households that and obviously not true across the board,

1066
01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:47,120
Speaker 3: but I feel like the story wants you to believe, like, Okay, well,

1067
01:02:47,840 --> 01:02:51,440
Speaker 3: you know, he grew up around violence, both with you know,

1068
01:02:51,760 --> 01:02:54,480
Speaker 3: wanting to be in the mob from the time he

1069
01:02:54,560 --> 01:02:57,360
Speaker 3: was a child, and also like he was just experienced

1070
01:02:57,440 --> 01:03:00,880
Speaker 3: violence in his home anyways. And so it's like, Okay,

1071
01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:03,400
Speaker 3: he's made this sort of quote unquote decision that he's

1072
01:03:03,440 --> 01:03:05,880
Speaker 3: not going to like die in the class he grew

1073
01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:09,080
Speaker 3: up in, even though that is kind of ultimately his fate,

1074
01:03:09,160 --> 01:03:12,240
Speaker 3: but whatever, right, But for a while, you know, he's like, Okay,

1075
01:03:12,320 --> 01:03:16,120
Speaker 3: how can I secure a partner by showing them I

1076
01:03:16,240 --> 01:03:20,440
Speaker 3: care by having money and being violent towards anyone who

1077
01:03:21,000 --> 01:03:23,560
Speaker 3: like is fucked up to them? Which is I thought

1078
01:03:23,600 --> 01:03:28,120
Speaker 3: that that having that scene where it's early in their

1079
01:03:28,160 --> 01:03:33,560
Speaker 3: relationship and Karen is very upset and she has been

1080
01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:40,160
Speaker 3: assaulted by her neighbor. And I mean it's like kind

1081
01:03:40,200 --> 01:03:44,160
Speaker 3: of an amazing scene. You may disagree with his methods,

1082
01:03:44,200 --> 01:03:48,840
Speaker 3: but I kind of don't like Henry, you know, goes

1083
01:03:48,880 --> 01:03:50,960
Speaker 3: across the street and like fucking wax him in the

1084
01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:52,920
Speaker 3: head over and over and over, and his stil whips

1085
01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:56,280
Speaker 3: the guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And then like that is

1086
01:03:56,360 --> 01:03:59,400
Speaker 3: his way of showing like he thinks like that is

1087
01:03:59,480 --> 01:04:03,080
Speaker 3: a showing love to Karen of like if you stay

1088
01:04:03,160 --> 01:04:06,560
Speaker 3: with me, these things will not happen to you, which

1089
01:04:06,920 --> 01:04:10,360
Speaker 3: you know, like in that time, there is value in that.

1090
01:04:10,720 --> 01:04:14,680
Speaker 2: I mean, women were conditioned to see value in a

1091
01:04:14,840 --> 01:04:18,360
Speaker 2: man who was like willing to fight to protect her.

1092
01:04:18,560 --> 01:04:23,880
Speaker 3: Like that's particularly in a like culture that abusing women

1093
01:04:24,120 --> 01:04:27,600
Speaker 3: physically was far more socially accepted than it was now

1094
01:04:28,120 --> 01:04:29,960
Speaker 3: right or than it is now and it's still, you know,

1095
01:04:30,040 --> 01:04:34,000
Speaker 3: pretty socially accepted. But yeah, like, I don't know, I

1096
01:04:34,040 --> 01:04:36,240
Speaker 3: feel like you're given the information you need to understand

1097
01:04:36,280 --> 01:04:38,120
Speaker 3: how she kind of ends up tangled in this.

1098
01:04:39,280 --> 01:04:43,800
Speaker 2: Right, there's that, and there's another scene told from her perspective.

1099
01:04:44,160 --> 01:04:47,960
Speaker 2: We hear her voice over again. It's after they've been

1100
01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:52,919
Speaker 2: married for a little while. But her voiceover says, after

1101
01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:55,600
Speaker 2: a while, it got to be all normal. None of

1102
01:04:55,680 --> 01:04:59,040
Speaker 2: it seemed like crime. It was more like Henry was enterprising.

1103
01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:02,720
Speaker 2: Our husband weren't brain surgeons. They were blue collar guys.

1104
01:05:02,840 --> 01:05:04,800
Speaker 2: The only way to make extra money was to go

1105
01:05:04,920 --> 01:05:07,680
Speaker 2: out and cut a few corners. We were all very close,

1106
01:05:08,240 --> 01:05:10,880
Speaker 2: never any outsiders around, and being together all the time

1107
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:13,760
Speaker 2: made everything seem all the more normal. It got to

1108
01:05:13,840 --> 01:05:15,840
Speaker 2: where I was even proud that I had the kind

1109
01:05:15,880 --> 01:05:17,880
Speaker 2: of husband who was willing to go out and risk

1110
01:05:17,960 --> 01:05:21,480
Speaker 2: his neck just to get us the little extras. So

1111
01:05:22,640 --> 01:05:25,520
Speaker 2: she's touching on some interesting class stuff here number one.

1112
01:05:25,920 --> 01:05:29,920
Speaker 2: Number two, It like shows the logic of someone who

1113
01:05:30,920 --> 01:05:36,240
Speaker 2: who's like exposed to something that is not normal per se,

1114
01:05:36,520 --> 01:05:40,200
Speaker 2: but it becomes normal for her because you know, like

1115
01:05:40,520 --> 01:05:43,800
Speaker 2: involvement in the mob and organized crime isn't quote unquote

1116
01:05:43,880 --> 01:05:47,600
Speaker 2: normal like most people. You know, your average American person

1117
01:05:47,800 --> 01:05:52,000
Speaker 2: or family doesn't have exposure to that and would probably

1118
01:05:52,120 --> 01:05:56,960
Speaker 2: actively avoid mob stuff, right, But because of the like

1119
01:05:57,120 --> 01:06:01,320
Speaker 2: isolation and the just like repid of it, and her

1120
01:06:01,400 --> 01:06:04,240
Speaker 2: constant exposure to it, that's the over a period of years,

1121
01:06:04,480 --> 01:06:08,120
Speaker 2: over time, that's how things get normalized. So she's like

1122
01:06:08,520 --> 01:06:14,439
Speaker 2: speaking to her becoming acclimated to this lifestyle. Because again,

1123
01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:17,400
Speaker 2: that was something that I kept thinking about in when

1124
01:06:17,560 --> 01:06:20,400
Speaker 2: I was watching The Godfather, I was like, why would

1125
01:06:20,520 --> 01:06:23,960
Speaker 2: Kay like stick around, Like why don't we get any

1126
01:06:24,080 --> 01:06:27,600
Speaker 2: insight about this? But like here we have Karen saying

1127
01:06:27,720 --> 01:06:30,640
Speaker 2: like this is why I stuck around because it felt

1128
01:06:30,720 --> 01:06:32,760
Speaker 2: extremely normal. It got to be very.

1129
01:06:32,760 --> 01:06:35,760
Speaker 3: Normal, right, and it like became her community, and like

1130
01:06:35,880 --> 01:06:38,000
Speaker 3: you see how painful it is for her later when

1131
01:06:38,600 --> 01:06:43,080
Speaker 3: Henry's locked up and she loses that community because her

1132
01:06:43,560 --> 01:06:46,720
Speaker 3: value in her own community is decided by like the

1133
01:06:46,800 --> 01:06:49,200
Speaker 3: status of her husband, which is like you know, traumatic

1134
01:06:49,280 --> 01:06:52,280
Speaker 3: in itself. And I liked that, like before even before that,

1135
01:06:52,600 --> 01:06:55,960
Speaker 3: because I also loved that they just like take a

1136
01:06:56,120 --> 01:06:59,440
Speaker 3: moment and like it helps move the story forward in

1137
01:06:59,560 --> 01:07:03,040
Speaker 3: time to explain why she sticks around and how it

1138
01:07:03,240 --> 01:07:05,600
Speaker 3: begins to feel like this is just my life now.

1139
01:07:05,840 --> 01:07:09,480
Speaker 3: But you also see like two different scenes shortly after

1140
01:07:09,600 --> 01:07:13,480
Speaker 3: she gets married that she's like struggling with it, where

1141
01:07:13,800 --> 01:07:17,840
Speaker 3: you have first the scene with again, which is just

1142
01:07:17,920 --> 01:07:20,640
Speaker 3: like stuff that could actually like that's always like the

1143
01:07:20,680 --> 01:07:22,960
Speaker 3: weird thing about The Godfather, Like scenes that could have

1144
01:07:23,080 --> 01:07:26,600
Speaker 3: been in The Godfather, probably similar scenes with either k

1145
01:07:26,840 --> 01:07:29,760
Speaker 3: or well not Connie Connie grew up with the mob,

1146
01:07:29,920 --> 01:07:32,080
Speaker 3: but scenes that you could have seen, but they just

1147
01:07:32,160 --> 01:07:35,760
Speaker 3: really weren't interested in the character. But like with Karen,

1148
01:07:35,800 --> 01:07:38,000
Speaker 3: when it switches to her perspective, you see a scene

1149
01:07:38,160 --> 01:07:41,520
Speaker 3: with her parents shortly after they get married, because she

1150
01:07:41,600 --> 01:07:45,640
Speaker 3: gets in an argument with her mother, who is you know,

1151
01:07:46,120 --> 01:07:49,800
Speaker 3: making some pretty good points. I would say, Yeah, she's

1152
01:07:50,000 --> 01:07:53,760
Speaker 3: just like, you know, where is your husband? Like this

1153
01:07:54,040 --> 01:07:56,520
Speaker 3: is really fucked up, this is weird. Where's the at

1154
01:07:56,640 --> 01:07:58,280
Speaker 3: you guys just got married? What's going on?

1155
01:07:58,480 --> 01:08:01,480
Speaker 2: She says, what kind of people are the And Karen says,

1156
01:08:02,040 --> 01:08:05,560
Speaker 2: stay out of it, mom, you don't know how I feel, right,

1157
01:08:05,720 --> 01:08:09,439
Speaker 2: And and you're like, okay, these are things I said

1158
01:08:09,440 --> 01:08:12,280
Speaker 2: as a teenager. But yeah, sure, but I still think

1159
01:08:12,320 --> 01:08:15,680
Speaker 2: she's like supposed to be like twenty two, Like it's right.

1160
01:08:15,760 --> 01:08:18,439
Speaker 3: She's supposed to be pretty young, Like I don't know,

1161
01:08:18,560 --> 01:08:21,479
Speaker 3: it's weird, like, but also I can totally relate with

1162
01:08:21,760 --> 01:08:27,240
Speaker 3: like I don't know, like being in clearly a bad relationship,

1163
01:08:27,600 --> 01:08:30,959
Speaker 3: being called out on it and being like you don't understand,

1164
01:08:31,160 --> 01:08:33,120
Speaker 3: Like that was sort of how I read that scene

1165
01:08:33,200 --> 01:08:36,160
Speaker 3: is like she has made at this point a pretty

1166
01:08:36,200 --> 01:08:40,439
Speaker 3: permanent choice, especially in the sixties, of like she's gotten married,

1167
01:08:40,560 --> 01:08:43,519
Speaker 3: so like she's got to stand by this decision because

1168
01:08:43,600 --> 01:08:47,080
Speaker 3: what is the alternative? And on top of the like

1169
01:08:47,680 --> 01:08:50,200
Speaker 3: a lot of people, myself included, hate to hand it

1170
01:08:50,280 --> 01:08:53,720
Speaker 3: to their mom for being right about something, but like, yeah,

1171
01:08:53,960 --> 01:08:55,880
Speaker 3: like I did understand why she reacted that way, but

1172
01:08:56,000 --> 01:08:58,320
Speaker 3: that sucks, and like Karen is just like put in

1173
01:08:58,400 --> 01:09:01,599
Speaker 3: such a hard position, emotional all the time. Because it's

1174
01:09:01,640 --> 01:09:03,840
Speaker 3: like if Karen was able to, like I feel like

1175
01:09:03,880 --> 01:09:05,960
Speaker 3: in that moment, you know, if she didn't feel like

1176
01:09:06,040 --> 01:09:08,360
Speaker 3: she had to defend Henry and didn't have to defend

1177
01:09:08,400 --> 01:09:11,519
Speaker 3: her decision, like her mom could have helped her out.

1178
01:09:11,720 --> 01:09:13,639
Speaker 3: You know, like it seems like her parents want what's

1179
01:09:13,680 --> 01:09:16,960
Speaker 3: best for her and she loves them. And even though

1180
01:09:17,000 --> 01:09:19,080
Speaker 3: it's like it seems like her and her mom argue

1181
01:09:19,240 --> 01:09:21,320
Speaker 3: a lot, but like they love each other. It seems

1182
01:09:21,360 --> 01:09:24,120
Speaker 3: like a generally good relationship. But you see her struggle

1183
01:09:24,160 --> 01:09:26,200
Speaker 3: with that at the very beginning. And then you also

1184
01:09:26,240 --> 01:09:29,720
Speaker 3: see Henry be a bad husband for I guess the

1185
01:09:29,800 --> 01:09:33,000
Speaker 3: first time as a husband where he comes back and

1186
01:09:33,080 --> 01:09:36,240
Speaker 3: then he sees conflict, and he just turns around and leaves,

1187
01:09:36,320 --> 01:09:39,160
Speaker 3: like he doesn't you know, after Karen has spent this

1188
01:09:39,240 --> 01:09:42,720
Speaker 3: whole scene defending him right when he doesn't deserve it,

1189
01:09:43,160 --> 01:09:46,000
Speaker 3: he can't be there to support her for even a second.

1190
01:09:46,080 --> 01:09:48,960
Speaker 3: It's kind of a thing. And then you see the

1191
01:09:49,000 --> 01:09:51,160
Speaker 3: scene with the mob wives, which I would love to

1192
01:09:51,200 --> 01:09:51,719
Speaker 3: talk about.

1193
01:09:52,080 --> 01:09:54,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, another scene where we get the whole scene is

1194
01:09:54,640 --> 01:09:57,439
Speaker 2: told from Karen's point of view. We get her voice

1195
01:09:57,479 --> 01:10:00,800
Speaker 2: over some more. She's like, yeah, I that we weren't

1196
01:10:01,000 --> 01:10:04,640
Speaker 2: married to you know, nine to five guys, but it

1197
01:10:04,760 --> 01:10:06,920
Speaker 2: wasn't until I hung out with the other wives that

1198
01:10:07,000 --> 01:10:12,400
Speaker 2: I realized how different things were. And she's like hurling

1199
01:10:12,560 --> 01:10:15,320
Speaker 2: some criticisms towards them, which.

1200
01:10:15,240 --> 01:10:18,320
Speaker 3: Like she does make it about their looks in a

1201
01:10:18,400 --> 01:10:22,519
Speaker 3: way that yeah is I mean, look, Karen is a

1202
01:10:22,600 --> 01:10:25,560
Speaker 3: flawed character, sure there so I think that there's like

1203
01:10:25,960 --> 01:10:30,200
Speaker 3: moments where it's interesting because it's like Karen can be

1204
01:10:30,439 --> 01:10:36,160
Speaker 3: pretty judgmental towards and cruel to other women, but in general,

1205
01:10:36,439 --> 01:10:40,000
Speaker 3: it's nothing that she wouldn't also say or do to

1206
01:10:40,160 --> 01:10:43,080
Speaker 3: a man. I was finding where like, I mean, this

1207
01:10:43,200 --> 01:10:46,200
Speaker 3: comes up more in like the Janice storyline right, so

1208
01:10:46,320 --> 01:10:48,400
Speaker 3: we'll get there, but like I did feel like it

1209
01:10:48,600 --> 01:10:52,160
Speaker 3: was she wasn't wrong to you know, especially at the

1210
01:10:52,200 --> 01:10:55,840
Speaker 3: point she's at, like it's almost like she's looking into

1211
01:10:55,960 --> 01:10:59,360
Speaker 3: what could be her future of like which we find

1212
01:10:59,400 --> 01:11:02,360
Speaker 3: out is kind of her future of. Like this violence

1213
01:11:02,439 --> 01:11:05,479
Speaker 3: is very normalized. It's something you can talk about openly

1214
01:11:05,560 --> 01:11:08,439
Speaker 3: in a community setting, Like it's something you have to

1215
01:11:08,560 --> 01:11:10,320
Speaker 3: deal with in your day to day life if you're

1216
01:11:10,400 --> 01:11:16,160
Speaker 3: married to someone like doing crime all the time, right.

1217
01:11:16,360 --> 01:11:19,920
Speaker 2: And her main takeaway from that scene is like when

1218
01:11:19,920 --> 01:11:23,160
Speaker 2: she goes back home and is talking to Henry, she's like,

1219
01:11:23,760 --> 01:11:26,280
Speaker 2: what if you went to jail? Because she heard, you know,

1220
01:11:26,360 --> 01:11:29,439
Speaker 2: the other wives talking about how some of their husbands

1221
01:11:29,479 --> 01:11:33,080
Speaker 2: are arrested, like got arrested and are in jail, and

1222
01:11:33,200 --> 01:11:35,400
Speaker 2: so she's expressing concern about like, you know, what would

1223
01:11:35,400 --> 01:11:37,320
Speaker 2: happen if you went to prison? Like what would that

1224
01:11:37,439 --> 01:11:41,439
Speaker 2: mean for me? And like what like, right, the stakes

1225
01:11:41,439 --> 01:11:43,880
Speaker 2: are very high, Henry, and he's just like, don't worry

1226
01:11:43,920 --> 01:11:46,920
Speaker 2: about it, and then he says something very racist and yeah,

1227
01:11:46,960 --> 01:11:50,400
Speaker 2: but he's basically like, you know, addressing her concerns. But

1228
01:11:50,800 --> 01:11:54,760
Speaker 2: the fact that she even has concerns is like, again,

1229
01:11:54,840 --> 01:11:56,320
Speaker 2: more than The Godfather ever did.

1230
01:11:56,720 --> 01:12:01,240
Speaker 3: Absolutely like it's it's so yeah, and we'll talk about

1231
01:12:01,240 --> 01:12:04,479
Speaker 3: this movie is racism in a bit, yeah, but again

1232
01:12:04,520 --> 01:12:09,840
Speaker 3: it's like so not just good for the genre of

1233
01:12:09,920 --> 01:12:13,400
Speaker 3: mob movies that's so male dominated and like male perspective dominated,

1234
01:12:13,560 --> 01:12:16,200
Speaker 3: but also just like good for the storytelling of the

1235
01:12:16,320 --> 01:12:18,760
Speaker 3: movie that we get these scenes with her, because it's

1236
01:12:18,840 --> 01:12:23,000
Speaker 3: like I feel like for Karen, as much as a

1237
01:12:23,080 --> 01:12:25,599
Speaker 3: lot of guys would like to think their Henry Hill,

1238
01:12:25,680 --> 01:12:28,839
Speaker 3: I feel like most of us are coming in Karen

1239
01:12:29,280 --> 01:12:32,240
Speaker 3: to this movie like you don't know what you would

1240
01:12:32,360 --> 01:12:35,360
Speaker 3: do in that situation, Like you're fucking kidding yourself if

1241
01:12:35,400 --> 01:12:37,679
Speaker 3: you think you just know what you would do, you don't.

1242
01:12:38,200 --> 01:12:41,679
Speaker 3: And like seeing Karen have to grapple with that directly,

1243
01:12:42,040 --> 01:12:43,760
Speaker 3: and I do want to quote what she says. It's

1244
01:12:43,840 --> 01:12:46,720
Speaker 3: pretty it's pretty aggressive towards the other women. They had

1245
01:12:46,760 --> 01:12:48,880
Speaker 3: bad skin and too much makeup. I mean, they didn't

1246
01:12:48,880 --> 01:12:52,400
Speaker 3: look very good. They looked beat up, a bit aggressive.

1247
01:12:52,840 --> 01:12:55,519
Speaker 3: But it's like keeping in mind that she's coming from

1248
01:12:55,640 --> 01:13:00,320
Speaker 3: like a pretty Again, it's like boring isn't the right word,

1249
01:13:00,400 --> 01:13:03,959
Speaker 3: but like she's from a pretty ordinary, like middle class background,

1250
01:13:04,160 --> 01:13:07,360
Speaker 3: like she's not used to seeing women who look or

1251
01:13:07,479 --> 01:13:11,160
Speaker 3: talk like this, and she's being you know, judgy in

1252
01:13:11,240 --> 01:13:14,000
Speaker 3: her head. But then yeah, like she always like will

1253
01:13:14,240 --> 01:13:18,040
Speaker 3: express her concern to Henry, at least in the beginning,

1254
01:13:18,800 --> 01:13:21,760
Speaker 3: because it seems like she's going into this relationship thinking

1255
01:13:21,840 --> 01:13:24,720
Speaker 3: that they are mostly equals or as much as you

1256
01:13:24,920 --> 01:13:28,880
Speaker 3: could be at this time. But he's just like a liar.

1257
01:13:29,160 --> 01:13:30,040
Speaker 3: He's a bad fella.

1258
01:13:30,560 --> 01:13:32,400
Speaker 2: He's a bad fella, I mean, and he's cocky.

1259
01:13:32,479 --> 01:13:34,040
Speaker 3: I mean, I do believe he thinks he'll never go

1260
01:13:34,160 --> 01:13:37,120
Speaker 3: to jail in that scene. Oh yea, but that like

1261
01:13:37,280 --> 01:13:40,360
Speaker 3: sets I mean, which there's this shot later in the

1262
01:13:40,400 --> 01:13:43,080
Speaker 3: movie that I was just like, is so good or

1263
01:13:43,200 --> 01:13:45,960
Speaker 3: like made me think back to that scene when it's

1264
01:13:46,000 --> 01:13:48,000
Speaker 3: like the scene where Henry's about to go to jail

1265
01:13:48,360 --> 01:13:51,000
Speaker 3: and he's like at the bar like talking to all

1266
01:13:51,040 --> 01:13:52,920
Speaker 3: the people he's about to go to jail with, and

1267
01:13:53,080 --> 01:13:54,920
Speaker 3: she's sitting in the background of the scene and she's

1268
01:13:55,000 --> 01:13:56,880
Speaker 3: just like looking at him like she wants to snap

1269
01:13:56,960 --> 01:13:59,920
Speaker 3: his fucking neck because like now she has to raise

1270
01:14:00,640 --> 01:14:04,080
Speaker 3: their kids two kids, yeah, on her own for ten

1271
01:14:04,240 --> 01:14:06,600
Speaker 3: years or however long he's in fucking jail for and

1272
01:14:06,720 --> 01:14:08,840
Speaker 3: it's just I just like thought back to that scene

1273
01:14:09,360 --> 01:14:11,479
Speaker 3: off of like she doesn't even say anything in that scene,

1274
01:14:11,520 --> 01:14:13,040
Speaker 3: but just that one shot is like, Oh, yeah, he

1275
01:14:13,800 --> 01:14:16,519
Speaker 3: you know, full of shit, promised you he was never

1276
01:14:16,600 --> 01:14:18,640
Speaker 3: going to go to jail. There's no way, and now

1277
01:14:18,720 --> 01:14:20,600
Speaker 3: you have to raise two kids by yourself for the

1278
01:14:20,680 --> 01:14:25,160
Speaker 3: better part of a decade. It's just like, oh my Karen,

1279
01:14:25,280 --> 01:14:26,160
Speaker 3: my sweet Karen.

1280
01:14:27,680 --> 01:14:30,240
Speaker 2: Yeah. And then one of the things, and maybe this

1281
01:14:30,320 --> 01:14:32,800
Speaker 2: is a whole separate discussion, but one of the things

1282
01:14:32,840 --> 01:14:38,840
Speaker 2: I appreciate about this movie, and you could make the

1283
01:14:39,080 --> 01:14:42,719
Speaker 2: argument that perhaps not enough was done in this regard

1284
01:14:42,880 --> 01:14:46,960
Speaker 2: either as far as like the movie leveling criticism against

1285
01:14:47,479 --> 01:14:53,280
Speaker 2: this lifestyle and the people in it and their horrible

1286
01:14:53,360 --> 01:14:57,840
Speaker 2: behavior and toxicity and all that stuff, because you know,

1287
01:14:58,080 --> 01:15:01,240
Speaker 2: hearing what a lot of the fans I have to say,

1288
01:15:01,320 --> 01:15:07,960
Speaker 2: it doesn't seem like they necessarily recognize the criticism all

1289
01:15:08,040 --> 01:15:11,160
Speaker 2: the time. But you know, I think that this movie

1290
01:15:11,280 --> 01:15:15,960
Speaker 2: does more to offer a critical commentary, you know, on

1291
01:15:16,040 --> 01:15:18,600
Speaker 2: the horrible things that they do, more so than The

1292
01:15:18,680 --> 01:15:21,680
Speaker 2: Godfather for sure. And one of the ways they do

1293
01:15:21,800 --> 01:15:26,000
Speaker 2: that is to show how horribly these men treat women. Yes,

1294
01:15:26,479 --> 01:15:30,840
Speaker 2: they are abusive, to women in every imaginable way. There's

1295
01:15:30,880 --> 01:15:34,880
Speaker 2: a scene that really struck me, and it's a quick moment,

1296
01:15:34,960 --> 01:15:36,640
Speaker 2: but they're at a Christmas party and.

1297
01:15:37,439 --> 01:15:40,720
Speaker 3: Listening and they're probably it's the only My only note

1298
01:15:40,840 --> 01:15:44,840
Speaker 3: is like they're not listening to Joe Peshi's album, which

1299
01:15:44,880 --> 01:15:47,240
Speaker 3: is so weird because I'm pretty sure he's at the

1300
01:15:47,520 --> 01:15:51,120
Speaker 3: party so he could just kind of start performing it.

1301
01:15:51,400 --> 01:15:54,920
Speaker 2: But whatever, he should karayoke his own song.

1302
01:15:55,520 --> 01:15:57,280
Speaker 3: But anyways, yes, Christmas.

1303
01:15:56,960 --> 01:16:01,240
Speaker 2: Party, right, Christmas party. Tommy has a girlfriend. I don't

1304
01:16:01,240 --> 01:16:03,160
Speaker 2: think we ever learned her name, and that might be

1305
01:16:03,240 --> 01:16:06,360
Speaker 2: the only scene we see her in. But Tommy says

1306
01:16:06,360 --> 01:16:09,040
Speaker 2: something to her like he's like, I gotta go over here.

1307
01:16:09,400 --> 01:16:12,880
Speaker 2: Don't look at anybody else, like don't basically saying don't

1308
01:16:12,880 --> 01:16:16,120
Speaker 2: look at any other men. And then she turns to

1309
01:16:16,680 --> 01:16:20,040
Speaker 2: the woman beside her and says, oh, he's so jealous.

1310
01:16:20,240 --> 01:16:22,519
Speaker 2: If I even look at someone else, he'll kill me.

1311
01:16:22,680 --> 01:16:26,200
Speaker 2: But her tone is very much like isn't it amazing

1312
01:16:26,280 --> 01:16:28,479
Speaker 2: how much he loves me and cares about me? And

1313
01:16:28,560 --> 01:16:32,519
Speaker 2: then the other woman responds with that's great, and like

1314
01:16:32,680 --> 01:16:35,679
Speaker 2: it's clear satire, you know, or it's just like clear

1315
01:16:35,840 --> 01:16:39,840
Speaker 2: like you're meant to watch this and like be horrified

1316
01:16:40,080 --> 01:16:44,439
Speaker 2: by their reactions to this, And again it's not the

1317
01:16:44,680 --> 01:16:49,320
Speaker 2: women's fault. Like women have historically been conditioned to feel

1318
01:16:49,360 --> 01:16:53,720
Speaker 2: this way about what a man's love and affection is

1319
01:16:53,800 --> 01:16:57,720
Speaker 2: supposed to look like. Right, So they're just responding to

1320
01:16:57,880 --> 01:17:02,479
Speaker 2: societal conditioning. But the movie is presenting this information as like,

1321
01:17:03,080 --> 01:17:07,840
Speaker 2: and isn't that horrible? Like that that's horrible for these

1322
01:17:08,000 --> 01:17:12,639
Speaker 2: women being so mistreated and abused by these men.

1323
01:17:12,640 --> 01:17:16,080
Speaker 3: Right, and and like that is what your conditioned to

1324
01:17:16,160 --> 01:17:19,120
Speaker 3: believe love looks like, which is a lot of like

1325
01:17:19,560 --> 01:17:23,160
Speaker 3: Karen's early stuff as well, Like exactly I was I

1326
01:17:23,200 --> 01:17:26,000
Speaker 3: think that the girlfriends are generally I actually was like

1327
01:17:26,400 --> 01:17:29,240
Speaker 3: not when the girlfriends were first introduced. I was sort

1328
01:17:29,280 --> 01:17:32,040
Speaker 3: of like, oh, no, are we about to just get

1329
01:17:32,200 --> 01:17:35,080
Speaker 3: like a bunch of like poorly written like bimbo stereo

1330
01:17:35,200 --> 01:17:38,280
Speaker 3: type characters, because I feel like the girlfriend quote unquote

1331
01:17:38,320 --> 01:17:42,320
Speaker 3: is often written that way. But again, Nick and Marty,

1332
01:17:42,880 --> 01:17:46,560
Speaker 3: they they give you I mean, and I think that,

1333
01:17:46,720 --> 01:17:49,320
Speaker 3: like I totally agree that that moment you just described

1334
01:17:49,320 --> 01:17:51,800
Speaker 3: at the Christmas party was like a pretty solid like

1335
01:17:51,920 --> 01:17:55,160
Speaker 3: moment of satire. And then I mean we don't need

1336
01:17:55,200 --> 01:17:57,160
Speaker 3: to pivot into this discussion all the way yet. But

1337
01:17:57,400 --> 01:18:02,600
Speaker 3: like Janice, who's Henry Is girlfriend who ends up it

1338
01:18:02,720 --> 01:18:05,880
Speaker 3: ends up becoming serious enough that he gets her an apartment.

1339
01:18:06,520 --> 01:18:09,120
Speaker 3: She sort of there's like kind of this secondary social

1340
01:18:09,200 --> 01:18:13,400
Speaker 3: scene that seems relegated strictly to people that know that

1341
01:18:13,479 --> 01:18:16,840
Speaker 3: they are the girlfriend of a married mobster. And you know,

1342
01:18:17,000 --> 01:18:19,599
Speaker 3: Karen is kept completely away from this world, even though

1343
01:18:19,640 --> 01:18:22,360
Speaker 3: she's well aware it exists and is getting increasingly upset

1344
01:18:22,360 --> 01:18:24,720
Speaker 3: about it. But I sort of was like, oh, is

1345
01:18:24,840 --> 01:18:27,280
Speaker 3: Jana's just going to be written off as like the

1346
01:18:27,320 --> 01:18:32,479
Speaker 3: bimbo stereotype and again justice for Bimbo's Bimbo's rule. But

1347
01:18:32,960 --> 01:18:36,320
Speaker 3: again you do get not as much inside. I think

1348
01:18:36,400 --> 01:18:40,360
Speaker 3: that there could have been more space for Janis in

1349
01:18:40,439 --> 01:18:43,120
Speaker 3: this story, and she does kind of like she's referenced

1350
01:18:43,520 --> 01:18:45,560
Speaker 3: a few other times, but she never really like she

1351
01:18:45,600 --> 01:18:47,800
Speaker 3: doesn't come back in a meaningful way. But you do

1352
01:18:48,040 --> 01:18:53,640
Speaker 3: get like a moment of insight into her struggle and

1353
01:18:53,760 --> 01:18:57,160
Speaker 3: her predicament in this story where you get the part

1354
01:18:57,320 --> 01:18:59,920
Speaker 3: of like, I mean, Henry uses the exact same time

1355
01:19:00,760 --> 01:19:03,639
Speaker 3: with Janie as he did with Karen, where he provides

1356
01:19:03,720 --> 01:19:06,200
Speaker 3: for her financially, and then when she gets in trouble

1357
01:19:06,240 --> 01:19:08,120
Speaker 3: at work, he beats the shit out of somebody because

1358
01:19:08,120 --> 01:19:10,080
Speaker 3: that's the only way he knows how to show love,

1359
01:19:10,200 --> 01:19:14,599
Speaker 3: because he's a broken person. So she already is kind

1360
01:19:14,600 --> 01:19:20,280
Speaker 3: of set up with the same degree of emotional abuse

1361
01:19:20,400 --> 01:19:23,080
Speaker 3: to some extent and or just at least control aspects

1362
01:19:23,200 --> 01:19:27,320
Speaker 3: that Karen is on top of knowing that she is

1363
01:19:27,920 --> 01:19:34,120
Speaker 3: supposed to be a secret and that scene between her

1364
01:19:34,200 --> 01:19:37,080
Speaker 3: and Karen, even though they never like speak face to face,

1365
01:19:37,320 --> 01:19:39,519
Speaker 3: and this doesn't pass the Bechel test because it's I mean,

1366
01:19:39,560 --> 01:19:41,599
Speaker 3: does it pass the Bechel tests with Karen yelling at

1367
01:19:41,600 --> 01:19:44,600
Speaker 3: you and you're just crying in your apartment afraid? I

1368
01:19:44,680 --> 01:19:49,360
Speaker 3: don't think so. But it's a meaningful interaction where Karen

1369
01:19:50,040 --> 01:19:53,120
Speaker 3: and this is like, you know, I just think, well,

1370
01:19:53,320 --> 01:19:55,560
Speaker 3: we'll get to this in a second. But like Karen is,

1371
01:19:56,200 --> 01:19:59,120
Speaker 3: you know, trying to scare and intimidate janis out of

1372
01:19:59,560 --> 01:20:03,360
Speaker 3: associa with Henry. Ever again, she's saying horrible things about her.

1373
01:20:03,479 --> 01:20:06,400
Speaker 3: She's threatening to tell the landlord that I quote unquote

1374
01:20:06,439 --> 01:20:10,120
Speaker 3: Whoror is living at this house, like she's sledshaming her.

1375
01:20:10,160 --> 01:20:12,240
Speaker 3: She's calling her horrible names, and Janie is just like

1376
01:20:12,320 --> 01:20:16,680
Speaker 3: sitting upstairs miserable in this house. That the only other

1377
01:20:16,720 --> 01:20:18,639
Speaker 3: time we've seen her in this house, she's been she's

1378
01:20:18,640 --> 01:20:21,120
Speaker 3: just like showing it off. She's like, Henry loves me

1379
01:20:21,240 --> 01:20:23,479
Speaker 3: so much, we have set so much sex here, blah

1380
01:20:23,520 --> 01:20:25,920
Speaker 3: blah blah. But then the only other time you see her,

1381
01:20:26,200 --> 01:20:30,200
Speaker 3: she's completely alone and she's scared and she's miserable, and

1382
01:20:31,080 --> 01:20:33,600
Speaker 3: it's sad, Like it's sad. That scene makes me so

1383
01:20:33,800 --> 01:20:36,439
Speaker 3: sad for both of those characters because it's the sort

1384
01:20:36,439 --> 01:20:39,520
Speaker 3: of thing where it's just like women need to unionize,

1385
01:20:40,520 --> 01:20:44,680
Speaker 3: like go upstairs, have a talk with Janie, and then

1386
01:20:44,960 --> 01:20:47,240
Speaker 3: both of you guys go kill Henry, you know, like

1387
01:20:47,439 --> 01:20:50,320
Speaker 3: let's get let's let's whack Henry. I understand why that

1388
01:20:50,400 --> 01:20:52,599
Speaker 3: doesn't happen in the movie, but like would have been fun.

1389
01:20:53,080 --> 01:20:57,080
Speaker 2: But Karen comes close to killing him or thinks about

1390
01:20:57,120 --> 01:20:58,120
Speaker 2: killing him, because.

1391
01:20:57,840 --> 01:21:00,240
Speaker 3: She's like Henry wasn't the star of the movie. I

1392
01:21:00,280 --> 01:21:01,519
Speaker 3: thought she would have done it right.

1393
01:21:02,200 --> 01:21:08,280
Speaker 2: So there's the scene where's Karen knows about Henry's infidelity.

1394
01:21:09,240 --> 01:21:14,160
Speaker 2: He's been neglecting her needs. He's just been a bad husband,

1395
01:21:15,040 --> 01:21:19,519
Speaker 2: and so you wonder why might Karen stay with him?

1396
01:21:20,400 --> 01:21:24,280
Speaker 2: And the movie offers us insight into that too, where

1397
01:21:25,160 --> 01:21:27,559
Speaker 2: she's pointing a gun at his face, and then her

1398
01:21:27,600 --> 01:21:30,160
Speaker 2: voiceover says like, you know, how could I hurt him?

1399
01:21:30,200 --> 01:21:32,920
Speaker 2: I couldn't even bring myself to leave him. The truth was,

1400
01:21:33,080 --> 01:21:35,040
Speaker 2: no matter how bad I felt, I was still very

1401
01:21:35,080 --> 01:21:38,519
Speaker 2: attracted to him. Why should I give him to someone else?

1402
01:21:38,640 --> 01:21:43,080
Speaker 2: Why should she win? And again that's like that feels

1403
01:21:43,160 --> 01:21:47,160
Speaker 2: like a simplification of what's going on, but you can imagine,

1404
01:21:47,240 --> 01:21:50,000
Speaker 2: like what's actually going on beneath the surface is like

1405
01:21:50,400 --> 01:21:54,240
Speaker 2: she is an abused spouse, and that takes a toll

1406
01:21:54,520 --> 01:21:57,720
Speaker 2: on people, and it seems like a lot of the

1407
01:21:58,120 --> 01:22:01,920
Speaker 2: abuse he's leveling at her is like you need me,

1408
01:22:02,240 --> 01:22:05,560
Speaker 2: like you, I'm the source of income here, Like what

1409
01:22:05,680 --> 01:22:09,240
Speaker 2: would you do without me? She needs his support the

1410
01:22:09,320 --> 01:22:12,680
Speaker 2: way that a lot of abused women in a relationship

1411
01:22:12,920 --> 01:22:16,519
Speaker 2: needs some form of support that their spouse is offering.

1412
01:22:16,680 --> 01:22:19,719
Speaker 3: And unfortunately in the same way that like Janice needs

1413
01:22:19,760 --> 01:22:25,080
Speaker 3: the support, right, yeah, I mean and that like that interiornary.

1414
01:22:25,200 --> 01:22:27,360
Speaker 3: So yeah, like she goes back and you really do

1415
01:22:27,560 --> 01:22:32,040
Speaker 3: think she might kill Henry, but also she knows, first

1416
01:22:32,040 --> 01:22:34,240
Speaker 3: of all, I do think that she loves him, which

1417
01:22:34,680 --> 01:22:39,120
Speaker 3: always makes being an abused partner that too, even worse. Yeah,

1418
01:22:39,479 --> 01:22:41,560
Speaker 3: but on top of that, like like you're saying, like

1419
01:22:41,760 --> 01:22:46,280
Speaker 3: if she kills him, everyone loses, Like she has to

1420
01:22:46,320 --> 01:22:49,040
Speaker 3: think of her children because her husband certainly isn't right.

1421
01:22:49,240 --> 01:22:51,680
Speaker 3: She has to think of herself, you know. And it's

1422
01:22:51,720 --> 01:22:56,160
Speaker 3: like if Henry's gone, how are they gonna survive? Even

1423
01:22:56,240 --> 01:22:59,599
Speaker 3: if they are generally happier, probably in the short term,

1424
01:22:59,640 --> 01:23:03,080
Speaker 3: but the long term, you know. And I understand, But

1425
01:23:03,200 --> 01:23:05,759
Speaker 3: also I do love that because when that scene happens

1426
01:23:05,800 --> 01:23:09,680
Speaker 3: between Karen and Janis, I was like, Okay, even if

1427
01:23:10,160 --> 01:23:12,600
Speaker 3: in the dynamics of this movie, I don't think that

1428
01:23:12,760 --> 01:23:15,040
Speaker 3: that is like, I don't think it was a thoughtless

1429
01:23:15,200 --> 01:23:17,040
Speaker 3: choice to have her do that, because I think showing,

1430
01:23:17,160 --> 01:23:19,120
Speaker 3: you know, an abused woman at the end of her rope,

1431
01:23:19,760 --> 01:23:23,439
Speaker 3: I think very often you see trying to phrase this

1432
01:23:23,640 --> 01:23:28,040
Speaker 3: correctly or like, but like, you know, how turning women

1433
01:23:28,160 --> 01:23:31,960
Speaker 3: on women in movies is a well worn trope, but

1434
01:23:32,120 --> 01:23:37,160
Speaker 3: it is based in something that is real and something

1435
01:23:37,200 --> 01:23:39,360
Speaker 3: that I like that women are so often put in

1436
01:23:39,439 --> 01:23:42,160
Speaker 3: competition with each other because we're conditioned to believe there's

1437
01:23:42,240 --> 01:23:44,800
Speaker 3: only room for so many and so.

1438
01:23:45,120 --> 01:23:48,040
Speaker 2: As we've discussed a number of times on the show.

1439
01:23:48,160 --> 01:23:50,920
Speaker 3: Right and so like that on top of the fact

1440
01:23:51,000 --> 01:23:54,080
Speaker 3: that she is already in this horrible relationship and now

1441
01:23:54,200 --> 01:23:56,680
Speaker 3: she's finding out that there's another person that she's been

1442
01:23:56,720 --> 01:23:59,400
Speaker 3: lied to about repeatedly. I understand, you know, and she

1443
01:23:59,560 --> 01:24:03,880
Speaker 3: has so little power in her relationship that of course,

1444
01:24:04,040 --> 01:24:06,600
Speaker 3: in her mind, it makes more sense to go to

1445
01:24:07,080 --> 01:24:09,880
Speaker 3: the only person who has less power than her in

1446
01:24:09,960 --> 01:24:14,719
Speaker 3: this dynamic, like, regardless of the gender of the person.

1447
01:24:15,000 --> 01:24:16,720
Speaker 3: I was like, it makes sense that she goes and

1448
01:24:17,080 --> 01:24:19,519
Speaker 3: tries to rip Janis's head off because she feels like

1449
01:24:19,600 --> 01:24:21,560
Speaker 3: she can't go to Henry. But then she does go

1450
01:24:21,680 --> 01:24:24,439
Speaker 3: to Henry and she almost blows his head off, And

1451
01:24:24,520 --> 01:24:26,800
Speaker 3: you're just like, well, that's what I mean when I

1452
01:24:26,800 --> 01:24:29,559
Speaker 3: say it's like, yeah, Janis like is not always kind

1453
01:24:29,600 --> 01:24:32,720
Speaker 3: to women, but like she's got enough rage to like

1454
01:24:32,920 --> 01:24:36,160
Speaker 3: spread around a fucking everybody like it. It doesn't seem

1455
01:24:36,240 --> 01:24:39,800
Speaker 3: like she has a particular issue with women. She's just

1456
01:24:40,160 --> 01:24:42,280
Speaker 3: like she's just surrounded by issues and that.

1457
01:24:42,760 --> 01:24:45,200
Speaker 2: Oh, so you said Janie, but you mean Karen.

1458
01:24:45,280 --> 01:24:46,920
Speaker 3: Oh sorry, I mean I mean Karen. I mean Karen

1459
01:24:46,960 --> 01:24:49,439
Speaker 3: Kah yeah, yeah, yeah. Karen goes after Janis because Janis

1460
01:24:49,439 --> 01:24:51,760
Speaker 3: has less power than her, right, and Karen needs to

1461
01:24:51,840 --> 01:24:54,200
Speaker 3: feel like she has some sort of control over her life.

1462
01:24:55,280 --> 01:24:58,080
Speaker 3: And then she goes to Henry to try to wrest

1463
01:24:58,200 --> 01:25:00,920
Speaker 3: some control back from him, but she can't and she

1464
01:25:01,040 --> 01:25:04,000
Speaker 3: sort of knows that, and he definitely knows that, and

1465
01:25:04,080 --> 01:25:06,320
Speaker 3: so then he ends up beating her down anyways and

1466
01:25:06,960 --> 01:25:09,559
Speaker 3: intimidating her even more because he knows that he holds

1467
01:25:09,640 --> 01:25:12,680
Speaker 3: all the power in this relationship and that is like

1468
01:25:13,640 --> 01:25:17,880
Speaker 3: what abusers do, and it just like it's upsetting to

1469
01:25:18,000 --> 01:25:22,280
Speaker 3: watch play out, but it felt like everything made sense

1470
01:25:22,400 --> 01:25:26,280
Speaker 3: and I honestly like wasn't expecting the movie to like

1471
01:25:26,479 --> 01:25:28,880
Speaker 3: let Karen shove a gun in his face like that

1472
01:25:29,080 --> 01:25:32,360
Speaker 3: was like really cathartic and cool. And even though she

1473
01:25:32,520 --> 01:25:37,000
Speaker 3: quote unquote loses that and he does continue to cheat

1474
01:25:37,040 --> 01:25:38,799
Speaker 3: on her because the only time you hear about Janis

1475
01:25:38,800 --> 01:25:41,880
Speaker 3: again is when you find out that she's visiting him

1476
01:25:42,040 --> 01:25:42,760
Speaker 3: in prison.

1477
01:25:42,880 --> 01:25:47,479
Speaker 2: Right, and then she you know, rightfully calls Henrielle being like, look,

1478
01:25:47,560 --> 01:25:49,720
Speaker 2: I'm the one smuggling in all this crap for you,

1479
01:25:49,960 --> 01:25:53,120
Speaker 2: Like let her be the one who's raising your kids

1480
01:25:53,240 --> 01:25:56,040
Speaker 2: and smuggling all this shit in like, I'm doing all

1481
01:25:56,160 --> 01:26:03,080
Speaker 2: this labor emotional and HOWLD and otherwise for you, and

1482
01:26:03,200 --> 01:26:08,000
Speaker 2: you're giving me no gratitude and you're receiving visits from

1483
01:26:08,240 --> 01:26:10,920
Speaker 2: your girlfriend. And she's like very rightfully extremely pissed off.

1484
01:26:11,000 --> 01:26:13,880
Speaker 3: And she also says in that like in that scene,

1485
01:26:14,000 --> 01:26:18,040
Speaker 3: that she's like, also, no one talks to me anymore,

1486
01:26:18,200 --> 01:26:22,639
Speaker 3: Like she's lost her whole community because of how fucking

1487
01:26:23,240 --> 01:26:28,519
Speaker 3: sloppy and bad at his job. Fucking Henry is like, yeah,

1488
01:26:28,840 --> 01:26:31,400
Speaker 3: he's not even good at being a good fella. He's

1489
01:26:31,640 --> 01:26:35,840
Speaker 3: sad at being a good fella. Yeah, like I. And

1490
01:26:36,080 --> 01:26:39,519
Speaker 3: so she does get to get those moments, and then eventually,

1491
01:26:39,720 --> 01:26:42,840
Speaker 3: you know, after twenty five years, she fucking leaves him,

1492
01:26:43,360 --> 01:26:46,640
Speaker 3: and so it is like it's I don't know, I

1493
01:26:46,800 --> 01:26:49,320
Speaker 3: just I love that we get so much of her.

1494
01:26:49,520 --> 01:26:52,360
Speaker 3: And I know that, you know, not everyone is gonna

1495
01:26:52,439 --> 01:26:57,640
Speaker 3: love her character, but I think a woman of her generation,

1496
01:26:57,920 --> 01:27:02,880
Speaker 3: in her predicament, get in insights into what she was

1497
01:27:02,960 --> 01:27:05,920
Speaker 3: going through, into what the pressures on her were, and

1498
01:27:06,080 --> 01:27:08,920
Speaker 3: getting to see her fuck up. I just like thought

1499
01:27:08,920 --> 01:27:11,760
Speaker 3: it was really cool because I think the only thing

1500
01:27:11,960 --> 01:27:14,439
Speaker 3: about Karen that I was just like, Okay, I mean,

1501
01:27:14,680 --> 01:27:19,519
Speaker 3: obviously being cruel to Janice was not necessary, but I

1502
01:27:19,920 --> 01:27:22,000
Speaker 3: can't bring myself to judge her too harshly for it.

1503
01:27:22,120 --> 01:27:24,439
Speaker 3: I just wish that they had been in a social

1504
01:27:25,000 --> 01:27:27,360
Speaker 3: climate that would have encouraged them to talk to each other,

1505
01:27:27,600 --> 01:27:29,599
Speaker 3: because friends always get better when women.

1506
01:27:29,439 --> 01:27:33,840
Speaker 2: Talk to each other. Too, because she had grown accustomed

1507
01:27:33,920 --> 01:27:39,880
Speaker 2: to the mob life, which is riddled with violence, like her, now,

1508
01:27:40,080 --> 01:27:42,880
Speaker 2: her go to response to something is to respond with

1509
01:27:43,120 --> 01:27:48,400
Speaker 2: violence because, as she says in her voiceover, that became

1510
01:27:48,479 --> 01:27:52,879
Speaker 2: normal to her. So right, yeah, she responds to Janice

1511
01:27:53,040 --> 01:27:55,759
Speaker 2: and Henry with threats of violence.

1512
01:27:56,160 --> 01:27:58,639
Speaker 3: She's a she's a better good fellow than Harry.

1513
01:27:59,280 --> 01:28:00,960
Speaker 2: Uh but true.

1514
01:28:01,280 --> 01:28:03,400
Speaker 3: But the only, the only, but my my only like

1515
01:28:03,640 --> 01:28:05,680
Speaker 3: thing about And I don't think that the movie is

1516
01:28:05,720 --> 01:28:08,160
Speaker 3: like endorsing this behavior. It just like made me sad

1517
01:28:08,400 --> 01:28:13,400
Speaker 3: to see. Was how when Karen is in moments of

1518
01:28:13,640 --> 01:28:18,120
Speaker 3: like feeling desperate and needing to rest control back from

1519
01:28:18,680 --> 01:28:23,400
Speaker 3: Henry to some degree, she is not above weaponizing her

1520
01:28:23,439 --> 01:28:26,920
Speaker 3: own children. And that, like, I think that the movie

1521
01:28:27,040 --> 01:28:29,760
Speaker 3: is like very well aware that that's what she's doing,

1522
01:28:29,840 --> 01:28:33,680
Speaker 3: because there's that moment where it's like one shot but

1523
01:28:33,800 --> 01:28:37,160
Speaker 3: it's in the scene where Karen is first yelling at

1524
01:28:37,439 --> 01:28:39,879
Speaker 3: Henry about the fact that he clearly has a girlfriend,

1525
01:28:40,640 --> 01:28:43,080
Speaker 3: and you just get this long shot of their like

1526
01:28:43,280 --> 01:28:46,880
Speaker 3: three year old daughter watching this whole thing play out,

1527
01:28:47,080 --> 01:28:50,000
Speaker 3: and it's like, okay. So the movie also, unlike The

1528
01:28:50,080 --> 01:28:55,919
Speaker 3: Godfather again, is interested in how this really toxic, horrible

1529
01:28:56,280 --> 01:28:58,960
Speaker 3: relationship dynamic is going to affect their children, because of

1530
01:28:59,000 --> 01:29:02,080
Speaker 3: course it is. And then you see later when when

1531
01:29:02,200 --> 01:29:04,880
Speaker 3: Karen shows up at Janii's place, she brings both of

1532
01:29:04,920 --> 01:29:08,560
Speaker 3: her daughters. I think sort of as ponds to demonstrate like,

1533
01:29:09,000 --> 01:29:11,280
Speaker 3: this is why you need to get out of my life.

1534
01:29:11,680 --> 01:29:14,160
Speaker 3: He has children, you need to get the fuck away.

1535
01:29:14,960 --> 01:29:17,680
Speaker 3: And I think also, you know, unfortunately, I think in

1536
01:29:17,760 --> 01:29:20,080
Speaker 3: this genre sometimes why you would have children around is

1537
01:29:20,160 --> 01:29:23,599
Speaker 3: to like make sure a violent confrontation doesn't take place.

1538
01:29:24,960 --> 01:29:27,880
Speaker 3: So yeah, I like I think that that was like

1539
01:29:28,240 --> 01:29:31,080
Speaker 3: fucked up of Karen. If I was, if I was

1540
01:29:31,120 --> 01:29:33,640
Speaker 3: their kids, I would it would probably be coming up

1541
01:29:33,720 --> 01:29:34,439
Speaker 3: in therapy for.

1542
01:29:34,560 --> 01:29:42,520
Speaker 2: Me a bit again, therapy with with Karen. In the Sopranos. Sopranos,

1543
01:29:42,760 --> 01:29:43,120
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1544
01:29:44,760 --> 01:29:46,880
Speaker 3: Her name is their character's name is Jennifer in the show,

1545
01:29:46,960 --> 01:29:50,040
Speaker 3: but like, but in any case, like you can see

1546
01:29:50,200 --> 01:29:53,680
Speaker 3: how again I feel like, but I as much as

1547
01:29:53,760 --> 01:29:56,519
Speaker 3: that is bad for the fictional children, I think that

1548
01:29:56,600 --> 01:30:01,000
Speaker 3: that is a cool grounded choice by the movie to

1549
01:30:01,160 --> 01:30:04,960
Speaker 3: demonstrate a woman who feels she has no other option,

1550
01:30:05,800 --> 01:30:08,599
Speaker 3: and like, it doesn't make it morally okay, I don't

1551
01:30:08,600 --> 01:30:10,240
Speaker 3: think in the eyes of the movie either, because the

1552
01:30:10,320 --> 01:30:13,519
Speaker 3: movie will draw your attention to the kids several times

1553
01:30:13,680 --> 01:30:16,880
Speaker 3: when their parents are fighting to make it clear it's like, yeah,

1554
01:30:17,000 --> 01:30:21,040
Speaker 3: kids obviously fucking notice their little sponges. But I think

1555
01:30:21,080 --> 01:30:24,120
Speaker 3: it's like, I thought it was a good choice to

1556
01:30:24,280 --> 01:30:27,760
Speaker 3: do that with Karen in that she's not the like

1557
01:30:28,720 --> 01:30:33,439
Speaker 3: selfless perfect mother character that we I think we'll often

1558
01:30:33,560 --> 01:30:37,400
Speaker 3: see in underwritten female characters, Like she's like not a

1559
01:30:37,520 --> 01:30:40,679
Speaker 3: perfect mother's She's not. I don't think she's a bad parent,

1560
01:30:40,800 --> 01:30:44,519
Speaker 3: but like, she's not a perfect mother, and you can

1561
01:30:44,720 --> 01:30:48,400
Speaker 3: still as if you were really love and empathize with

1562
01:30:48,560 --> 01:30:51,920
Speaker 3: her even though that is like clear, Yeah, I.

1563
01:30:52,000 --> 01:30:57,719
Speaker 2: Agree, Karen Gulls. I want to share a quote from

1564
01:30:58,320 --> 01:31:01,880
Speaker 2: a review about this movie from The New York Times

1565
01:31:02,040 --> 01:31:05,639
Speaker 2: published when it came out so nineteen ninety by Susan Linfield,

1566
01:31:06,360 --> 01:31:10,479
Speaker 2: entitled Goodfella's looks at the banality of mob life. It

1567
01:31:11,479 --> 01:31:16,920
Speaker 2: is speaking about the actor who plays Karen. So quote,

1568
01:31:17,760 --> 01:31:21,240
Speaker 2: Miss Brocco, despite having known mister de Niro and mister

1569
01:31:21,320 --> 01:31:25,839
Speaker 2: Scorsese for years through her husband, the actor Harvey Kitel,

1570
01:31:26,800 --> 01:31:30,759
Speaker 2: says she found the shoot an emotionally difficult one because

1571
01:31:30,800 --> 01:31:34,479
Speaker 2: she was playing the lone woman character in a very brutal,

1572
01:31:35,000 --> 01:31:39,719
Speaker 2: very male world. And then this review shares a quote

1573
01:31:39,760 --> 01:31:43,360
Speaker 2: from Lorraine Bronco that goes as follows, if I didn't

1574
01:31:43,360 --> 01:31:45,920
Speaker 2: make my work important, it would probably end up on

1575
01:31:46,040 --> 01:31:48,800
Speaker 2: the cutting room floor. Marty said to me, I know

1576
01:31:49,160 --> 01:31:52,800
Speaker 2: you think I only make men's movies, but I really

1577
01:31:52,880 --> 01:31:56,240
Speaker 2: love this character Karen. But I think if push came

1578
01:31:56,320 --> 01:31:59,760
Speaker 2: to shove, if the performance wasn't there, he would have

1579
01:32:00,479 --> 01:32:04,000
Speaker 2: the film more to Ray and the boys. So I

1580
01:32:04,200 --> 01:32:08,360
Speaker 2: felt a little bit of extra pressure on me. So

1581
01:32:08,800 --> 01:32:13,080
Speaker 2: totally see her, like concerns are not unfounded, Like yeah,

1582
01:32:13,120 --> 01:32:17,559
Speaker 2: I mean so obviously she's just speaking to how as

1583
01:32:18,400 --> 01:32:21,760
Speaker 2: the one female character in the movie, she felt all

1584
01:32:21,800 --> 01:32:26,759
Speaker 2: this extra pressure to like, if I don't do an incredible, amazing,

1585
01:32:26,880 --> 01:32:31,679
Speaker 2: fantastic job, my part is in danger of like being

1586
01:32:32,280 --> 01:32:35,040
Speaker 2: scaled way back on and like cut out of the narrative,

1587
01:32:35,040 --> 01:32:36,920
Speaker 2: because you hear that all the time, where like an

1588
01:32:37,000 --> 01:32:39,400
Speaker 2: actor is in a movie but then they're like, whoops,

1589
01:32:39,439 --> 01:32:41,880
Speaker 2: they cut my scenes, so I'm actually not in the movie.

1590
01:32:43,080 --> 01:32:46,599
Speaker 2: And that's something that like, I mean, women have discussed,

1591
01:32:46,880 --> 01:32:49,160
Speaker 2: you know, dealing with all the time, people of color

1592
01:32:49,240 --> 01:32:52,760
Speaker 2: have discussed dealing like the pressure to be the absolute

1593
01:32:52,840 --> 01:32:56,559
Speaker 2: best at a thing, to just be on the same

1594
01:32:56,720 --> 01:32:59,920
Speaker 2: level as like cis hat white men who are pretty

1595
01:33:00,280 --> 01:33:04,720
Speaker 2: you know, I'm not calling Robert your own raliota mediocre, but.

1596
01:33:04,920 --> 01:33:06,720
Speaker 3: Like what if you were, though, that would be wild,

1597
01:33:07,880 --> 01:33:09,960
Speaker 3: but like some fucking chumps, But.

1598
01:33:10,200 --> 01:33:13,559
Speaker 2: Just like the pressure to like give like two hundred

1599
01:33:13,720 --> 01:33:18,240
Speaker 2: percent because marginalized people have to put in so much

1600
01:33:18,360 --> 01:33:21,320
Speaker 2: more effort to prove that they are just as talented

1601
01:33:21,840 --> 01:33:26,519
Speaker 2: and to be taken as seriously as their straight white

1602
01:33:26,560 --> 01:33:28,920
Speaker 2: guy counterparts, right, And I think that.

1603
01:33:29,080 --> 01:33:33,880
Speaker 3: Like honestly, like in the context of that, there is

1604
01:33:34,760 --> 01:33:36,840
Speaker 3: and this does kind of tie back to this, So

1605
01:33:37,000 --> 01:33:38,800
Speaker 3: I feel like that is like symptomatic of a bunch

1606
01:33:38,800 --> 01:33:41,439
Speaker 3: of things where at first is like, oh, yeah, that

1607
01:33:41,680 --> 01:33:45,759
Speaker 3: happens a lot when there's like one female character basically

1608
01:33:46,000 --> 01:33:49,160
Speaker 3: or like one non white character where it's like all

1609
01:33:49,240 --> 01:33:52,560
Speaker 3: of the pressure is on you and you know, and

1610
01:33:52,680 --> 01:33:55,479
Speaker 3: I can't speak to like what these specific filmmakers think,

1611
01:33:55,520 --> 01:33:59,280
Speaker 3: but I feel like inherently they are aware that their

1612
01:33:59,439 --> 01:34:03,000
Speaker 3: target audience is not as interested in Karen as they

1613
01:34:03,080 --> 01:34:08,559
Speaker 3: are in Henry, and so it's easier to make those cuts.

1614
01:34:08,680 --> 01:34:12,800
Speaker 3: And already there's kind of this, you know, at least

1615
01:34:12,960 --> 01:34:18,200
Speaker 3: tokenizing adjacent effect to how Lorraine Broco is in this movie.

1616
01:34:18,439 --> 01:34:20,120
Speaker 3: And I feel like it also speaks to like the

1617
01:34:20,240 --> 01:34:24,960
Speaker 3: writing of like they're actually because like, as you're talking

1618
01:34:24,960 --> 01:34:26,479
Speaker 3: about that, I was like, oh, I think that you

1619
01:34:26,600 --> 01:34:31,120
Speaker 3: actually could scale back Karen's part kind of significantly and

1620
01:34:31,240 --> 01:34:33,160
Speaker 3: have the events play out exactly the same.

1621
01:34:33,640 --> 01:34:33,800
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1622
01:34:33,840 --> 01:34:34,320
Speaker 2: Pretty close.

1623
01:34:34,400 --> 01:34:37,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, So as much as this movie does to show

1624
01:34:37,360 --> 01:34:40,760
Speaker 3: you Karen's perspective, that just like demonstrates that this is

1625
01:34:40,920 --> 01:34:44,439
Speaker 3: this is still ultimately the you know, Henry's story, because

1626
01:34:44,479 --> 01:34:46,760
Speaker 3: you could cut out a lot, Like there's a lot

1627
01:34:46,800 --> 01:34:49,439
Speaker 3: of things that in the same way that like if

1628
01:34:49,479 --> 01:34:52,960
Speaker 3: you added forty minutes to The Godfather, which you should not,

1629
01:34:53,760 --> 01:34:56,960
Speaker 3: but like if you added forty minutes of the Godfather,

1630
01:34:57,080 --> 01:34:59,920
Speaker 3: that's really like a meaty, in depth look at what's

1631
01:35:00,040 --> 01:35:03,160
Speaker 3: going on with Connie and Kay. It would be amazing,

1632
01:35:03,479 --> 01:35:06,800
Speaker 3: it would have elevated that movie, but it wouldn't have

1633
01:35:06,920 --> 01:35:09,160
Speaker 3: changed the fact that the men in the story are

1634
01:35:09,320 --> 01:35:13,160
Speaker 3: clearly the drivers of the story because it's.

1635
01:35:13,040 --> 01:35:16,680
Speaker 2: A story about godfathers. It's these are stories about the goodfellas,

1636
01:35:16,840 --> 01:35:18,880
Speaker 2: not the good ladies.

1637
01:35:19,920 --> 01:35:23,600
Speaker 3: He'll be I think that's like not a crisis, but

1638
01:35:23,680 --> 01:35:27,320
Speaker 3: it's like, yeah, that's that's an extraordinary pressure on Laurien

1639
01:35:27,320 --> 01:35:30,760
Speaker 3: and Bronco, and like she obviously rose to the occasion,

1640
01:35:30,920 --> 01:35:35,360
Speaker 3: but that kind of pressure certainly doesn't help. And and

1641
01:35:36,240 --> 01:35:39,479
Speaker 3: the thing that I that I liked about Goodfella again

1642
01:35:39,760 --> 01:35:43,200
Speaker 3: that like The Godfather, doesn't quite do even though it's

1643
01:35:43,280 --> 01:35:46,200
Speaker 3: like a little it is funny because it's like Henry Hill.

1644
01:35:46,840 --> 01:35:48,680
Speaker 3: The whole end of the movie is kind of like

1645
01:35:48,760 --> 01:35:54,360
Speaker 3: how history will forget him, which is funny because obviously

1646
01:35:54,479 --> 01:35:59,880
Speaker 3: it didn't because I'm watching Goodfellas, so it didn't. But

1647
01:36:00,320 --> 01:36:03,240
Speaker 3: I like that the kind of core message, unlike The Godfather,

1648
01:36:03,360 --> 01:36:07,640
Speaker 3: where it's you know, like presented in this very Shakespearean

1649
01:36:07,760 --> 01:36:11,760
Speaker 3: way of like history you will remember these great men,

1650
01:36:12,040 --> 01:36:15,880
Speaker 3: you know, like it's all presented in this very grandiose way,

1651
01:36:16,520 --> 01:36:20,280
Speaker 3: but Goodfellas takes a very different tack where it draws

1652
01:36:20,320 --> 01:36:23,320
Speaker 3: your attention to the end. It like, this lifestyle is

1653
01:36:24,240 --> 01:36:28,519
Speaker 3: very fleeting, you can very easily be forgotten, and like

1654
01:36:28,760 --> 01:36:31,920
Speaker 3: hopefully you had a good time because and like hopefully

1655
01:36:32,000 --> 01:36:34,080
Speaker 3: it was all worth it for you, because this is

1656
01:36:34,160 --> 01:36:38,120
Speaker 3: not the sort of position that history will remember you as.

1657
01:36:38,880 --> 01:36:42,720
Speaker 3: And I just like that, I mean whatever. I know

1658
01:36:42,760 --> 01:36:47,440
Speaker 3: there's room for both approaches, but I appreciate where Goodfellas

1659
01:36:47,560 --> 01:36:50,400
Speaker 3: kind of like tackles it from where it also just

1660
01:36:50,479 --> 01:36:54,720
Speaker 3: like draws your attention to like how kind of pathetic

1661
01:36:55,200 --> 01:36:57,720
Speaker 3: you can view Henry as at the end, because he's

1662
01:36:58,479 --> 01:37:01,640
Speaker 3: in the process of doing the one thing Daddy de

1663
01:37:01,720 --> 01:37:02,760
Speaker 3: Niro told him not to.

1664
01:37:02,840 --> 01:37:05,879
Speaker 2: Do, don't write out your friends and keep your mouth shut.

1665
01:37:05,840 --> 01:37:08,880
Speaker 3: And so he is. He is like going against what

1666
01:37:09,080 --> 01:37:12,840
Speaker 3: he's claimed his whole life was about. He's being called

1667
01:37:12,880 --> 01:37:18,000
Speaker 3: a rat in court, which is fucking brutal, but even

1668
01:37:18,240 --> 01:37:21,280
Speaker 3: then he's still like I feel like Henry is like

1669
01:37:21,320 --> 01:37:23,680
Speaker 3: such a and and it's it's tricky because you're, like

1670
01:37:23,760 --> 01:37:25,880
Speaker 3: I could totally see how you could be a you know,

1671
01:37:26,000 --> 01:37:28,400
Speaker 3: fifteen year old boy and completely miss the fucking point

1672
01:37:28,439 --> 01:37:30,280
Speaker 3: of what's going on here, But I just thought it

1673
01:37:30,400 --> 01:37:33,880
Speaker 3: was like so cool and well done. Of like Henry

1674
01:37:34,040 --> 01:37:38,320
Speaker 3: was always about the romantic aspects of the lifestyle. That's

1675
01:37:38,320 --> 01:37:39,960
Speaker 3: why he wanted to do it when he was a kid.

1676
01:37:40,120 --> 01:37:43,080
Speaker 3: Was probably because he like saw some neighborhood guys saw

1677
01:37:43,120 --> 01:37:45,439
Speaker 3: a couple movies and was like, I want to do that,

1678
01:37:45,800 --> 01:37:49,160
Speaker 3: And like he never even fully took in the message.

1679
01:37:49,160 --> 01:37:52,920
Speaker 3: He only wanted the surface level of the lifestyle and

1680
01:37:52,960 --> 01:37:55,240
Speaker 3: he wanted the respecting, he wanted the money. But when

1681
01:37:55,280 --> 01:37:58,679
Speaker 3: it actually came to like the one core like quote

1682
01:37:58,760 --> 01:38:03,120
Speaker 3: unquote more holistic value that this group has, he doesn't

1683
01:38:03,200 --> 01:38:06,720
Speaker 3: have that, like, and so he is a rat and

1684
01:38:06,800 --> 01:38:09,400
Speaker 3: he is kind of a fucking chump and he like

1685
01:38:09,960 --> 01:38:14,240
Speaker 3: sells everyone out to like he never even really got it,

1686
01:38:14,520 --> 01:38:17,320
Speaker 3: Like he wasn't even a real mobster because he didn't

1687
01:38:17,360 --> 01:38:21,720
Speaker 3: follow rule number one. And but he's like going over

1688
01:38:21,880 --> 01:38:24,840
Speaker 3: this all the romantic aspects that initially pulled him to

1689
01:38:24,920 --> 01:38:28,240
Speaker 3: this lifestyle until the very very end in a way

1690
01:38:28,320 --> 01:38:31,280
Speaker 3: that like I think if I have seen this movie

1691
01:38:31,320 --> 01:38:33,640
Speaker 3: when I was young, like a teenager, I would I

1692
01:38:33,680 --> 01:38:37,640
Speaker 3: wouldn't have taken it in maybe, but like that.

1693
01:38:37,760 --> 01:38:40,400
Speaker 2: Last scene, I was like, oh, he's like pathetic, Like

1694
01:38:40,840 --> 01:38:43,520
Speaker 2: he's kind of like just loser, alert.

1695
01:38:43,560 --> 01:38:47,320
Speaker 3: A fucking loser, right, Like it's like he's he's a

1696
01:38:47,800 --> 01:38:49,000
Speaker 3: he's a bad good fella.

1697
01:38:49,360 --> 01:38:53,839
Speaker 2: When I watched the movie, I'm like Henry Hill, loser,

1698
01:38:54,240 --> 01:38:59,680
Speaker 2: rat coward, Tommy the most fragile male ego I've ever

1699
01:38:59,760 --> 01:39:01,600
Speaker 2: seen on a person, and.

1700
01:39:01,680 --> 01:39:05,240
Speaker 3: Will weaponize it against women and people of color, especially

1701
01:39:05,640 --> 01:39:09,799
Speaker 3: like he is he is like very misogynist and racist

1702
01:39:10,080 --> 01:39:14,000
Speaker 3: while also presenting as inherently likable, which I think is

1703
01:39:14,680 --> 01:39:20,000
Speaker 3: a really really difficult tone to strike while still clearly

1704
01:39:20,120 --> 01:39:22,840
Speaker 3: condemning the views of the character that.

1705
01:39:23,360 --> 01:39:28,400
Speaker 2: And I see Jimmy and I'm like he was gonna

1706
01:39:28,840 --> 01:39:34,200
Speaker 2: have his friends, his wife murdered because like loyalty means

1707
01:39:34,280 --> 01:39:37,240
Speaker 2: nothing to these people. It's all about I mean to me,

1708
01:39:37,400 --> 01:39:40,400
Speaker 2: Like Jimmy is like just a capitalist through and through,

1709
01:39:40,479 --> 01:39:44,000
Speaker 2: Like he will choose money over anything over like connections

1710
01:39:44,040 --> 01:39:47,120
Speaker 2: with other humans, who cares as long as I'm rich

1711
01:39:47,160 --> 01:39:49,320
Speaker 2: and I can steal stuff and become richer.

1712
01:39:49,920 --> 01:39:52,360
Speaker 3: Right, he might shed a tear here and there, but

1713
01:39:52,640 --> 01:39:56,439
Speaker 3: it's not gonna stop him from right whack and Tommy right, So,

1714
01:39:56,600 --> 01:40:01,280
Speaker 3: like all these men are like pathetic, Yeah, and the

1715
01:40:01,920 --> 01:40:08,040
Speaker 3: movie seems to recognize that and put that on display,

1716
01:40:08,240 --> 01:40:09,960
Speaker 3: and I would imagine and again it's like, I haven't

1717
01:40:10,000 --> 01:40:13,640
Speaker 3: read Wise Guys, right, but I would imagine that like

1718
01:40:14,080 --> 01:40:18,120
Speaker 3: a lot of the and again, like Listeners, if you

1719
01:40:18,320 --> 01:40:20,439
Speaker 3: have done more reading into this than we have, which

1720
01:40:20,439 --> 01:40:24,000
Speaker 3: wouldn't be hard. We hate books. But I guess just

1721
01:40:24,160 --> 01:40:26,800
Speaker 3: off of the perception of these two movies. And I

1722
01:40:26,840 --> 01:40:30,360
Speaker 3: don't mind pitting these movies against each other because who cares, like,

1723
01:40:30,560 --> 01:40:33,960
Speaker 3: but you know, technically both of these movies were based

1724
01:40:34,040 --> 01:40:36,439
Speaker 3: in some degree of research, but I feel like you

1725
01:40:36,520 --> 01:40:40,280
Speaker 3: can tell which movie is based on source material of

1726
01:40:40,479 --> 01:40:43,519
Speaker 3: like a guy who wrote fiction and was really into

1727
01:40:43,640 --> 01:40:47,840
Speaker 3: the mob and a journalist who was reporting on the

1728
01:40:47,960 --> 01:40:54,800
Speaker 3: mob and doesn't necessarily have these romantic connections to mob guys.

1729
01:40:54,880 --> 01:40:57,439
Speaker 3: And I feel like that's why, Like, I mean, one

1730
01:40:57,520 --> 01:40:59,760
Speaker 3: of the reasons, because I feel like Karen being very

1731
01:40:59,840 --> 01:41:01,680
Speaker 3: much at the center of the story for a lot

1732
01:41:01,720 --> 01:41:05,040
Speaker 3: of the movie is another huge reason that I prefer

1733
01:41:05,280 --> 01:41:08,240
Speaker 3: Goodfellas to The Godfather. But I also like that it

1734
01:41:08,400 --> 01:41:12,360
Speaker 3: just like feels like a more grounded way, like if

1735
01:41:12,439 --> 01:41:16,480
Speaker 3: the goal is to like show mob life versus glorifying

1736
01:41:16,560 --> 01:41:19,439
Speaker 3: mob life, I feel like Goodfellas does a far better job.

1737
01:41:19,600 --> 01:41:24,320
Speaker 3: Not perfect because obviously, like I mean, a lot of

1738
01:41:24,720 --> 01:41:27,479
Speaker 3: mostly men still manage to take away the completely wrong

1739
01:41:27,800 --> 01:41:30,240
Speaker 3: message from it. But I also like that it's like, yeah,

1740
01:41:30,280 --> 01:41:34,840
Speaker 3: it seems to be based in actual reporting versus like

1741
01:41:35,200 --> 01:41:40,960
Speaker 3: observation that like borders on admiration right on Mario Puzzo's part,

1742
01:41:41,400 --> 01:41:45,200
Speaker 3: And the fact that it's like I watched this bravely

1743
01:41:45,640 --> 01:41:46,599
Speaker 3: on HBO Max.

1744
01:41:47,120 --> 01:41:47,439
Speaker 2: Did you.

1745
01:41:49,000 --> 01:41:52,400
Speaker 3: Did you watch the Little Marty featurette before that they had?

1746
01:41:52,600 --> 01:41:55,640
Speaker 2: I did, but it was two weeks ago, okay, and

1747
01:41:55,720 --> 01:41:57,760
Speaker 2: I didn't rewatch it, so it's not very fresh. I

1748
01:41:57,840 --> 01:41:59,759
Speaker 2: can't remember exactly what he was saying.

1749
01:42:00,320 --> 01:42:04,880
Speaker 3: So I rewatched it this morning, and I really, first

1750
01:42:04,880 --> 01:42:08,280
Speaker 3: of all, what a cute what a cute little guy,

1751
01:42:08,680 --> 01:42:11,840
Speaker 3: just truly, you just gotta love this guy. But on

1752
01:42:11,960 --> 01:42:15,200
Speaker 3: top of that, he spoke to like a lot of

1753
01:42:16,040 --> 01:42:18,000
Speaker 3: it's like a ten minute I think feature, and at

1754
01:42:18,040 --> 01:42:20,519
Speaker 3: the very beginning it's like a TCM thing, but he

1755
01:42:20,720 --> 01:42:23,720
Speaker 3: spoke to, you know, kind of his personal connection to

1756
01:42:23,840 --> 01:42:27,600
Speaker 3: this story, which I feel like also really helps in

1757
01:42:28,479 --> 01:42:32,360
Speaker 3: unders just like understanding what the filmmaker's motivation was in

1758
01:42:32,479 --> 01:42:34,920
Speaker 3: making it where it's like this character, like Henry Hill's,

1759
01:42:35,479 --> 01:42:38,680
Speaker 3: I believe, like a little bit older than Scorsese, but

1760
01:42:38,800 --> 01:42:41,600
Speaker 3: like Scorsese grew up in Brooklyn, he also grew up

1761
01:42:41,760 --> 01:42:45,200
Speaker 3: very very fascinated in buying into the romance of the

1762
01:42:45,280 --> 01:42:48,840
Speaker 3: mob life in the same way that Henry did. And

1763
01:42:48,960 --> 01:42:51,760
Speaker 3: so it's like he's able to kind of like come

1764
01:42:51,840 --> 01:42:55,360
Speaker 3: from a very personal place and like explore it. And also,

1765
01:42:55,640 --> 01:42:57,280
Speaker 3: I mean, just going back to what you were just

1766
01:42:57,280 --> 01:43:02,320
Speaker 3: saying about these men ultimately being pathetic, take it all

1767
01:43:02,400 --> 01:43:05,280
Speaker 3: the way through. So okay, I have this quote because

1768
01:43:05,280 --> 01:43:07,320
Speaker 3: it's like, by the end of the movie, Henry is

1769
01:43:07,360 --> 01:43:11,800
Speaker 3: not only acting very very selfishly, he because of his lifestyle,

1770
01:43:12,000 --> 01:43:18,040
Speaker 3: has fallen into addiction. He has fallen into repeatedly putting

1771
01:43:18,080 --> 01:43:20,960
Speaker 3: his loved ones at risk in a very selfish way

1772
01:43:21,240 --> 01:43:23,840
Speaker 3: and a way that he doesn't even seem to realize

1773
01:43:23,920 --> 01:43:28,320
Speaker 3: he's doing. And just like he's just completely come undone

1774
01:43:28,439 --> 01:43:32,840
Speaker 3: as a person. Here's what Marty has to say. Quote,

1775
01:43:33,320 --> 01:43:36,120
Speaker 3: the main character of the film is the lifestyle itself,

1776
01:43:36,600 --> 01:43:39,639
Speaker 3: and that brings some certain things to the four Lots

1777
01:43:39,680 --> 01:43:43,080
Speaker 3: of discussions about glamorizing in a sense of this lifestyle.

1778
01:43:43,720 --> 01:43:46,559
Speaker 3: But if you see how it proceeds, then you see

1779
01:43:46,680 --> 01:43:49,080
Speaker 3: ultimately the final reckoning, and you see that it's not

1780
01:43:49,280 --> 01:43:52,439
Speaker 3: something to be desired. Yet I wanted to explore what

1781
01:43:52,600 --> 01:43:55,240
Speaker 3: is the attraction to these people and why are you watching?

1782
01:43:55,960 --> 01:43:59,680
Speaker 3: Which I think is like a very valid place to

1783
01:43:59,760 --> 01:44:03,280
Speaker 3: come from. Is like, because he's right, you do see,

1784
01:44:03,680 --> 01:44:06,640
Speaker 3: you know, the more glamorous aspects of the mob. You

1785
01:44:06,800 --> 01:44:09,280
Speaker 3: see the you know, I kind of like that it's

1786
01:44:09,560 --> 01:44:12,799
Speaker 3: sloppier and like less organized than it is in The Godfather.

1787
01:44:12,920 --> 01:44:17,600
Speaker 3: But like, but you also see the fact that everyone involved,

1788
01:44:18,120 --> 01:44:21,280
Speaker 3: their lives are completely fucking destroyed, and it's kind of

1789
01:44:21,320 --> 01:44:24,960
Speaker 3: implied that it was all for basically nothing by the end.

1790
01:44:25,200 --> 01:44:28,200
Speaker 2: Right, I mean, because like I think most people would

1791
01:44:28,280 --> 01:44:34,719
Speaker 2: look at certain aspects of that lifestyle and think against.

1792
01:44:34,720 --> 01:44:37,920
Speaker 2: Certain aspects of it are glamorous, like the just.

1793
01:44:38,000 --> 01:44:40,800
Speaker 3: Like Karen did when she started danting in exactly, like.

1794
01:44:41,479 --> 01:44:44,720
Speaker 2: You know, just the like the lavishness of it, the

1795
01:44:45,720 --> 01:44:52,120
Speaker 2: access to nice, expensive things like those things are seductive

1796
01:44:52,479 --> 01:44:54,720
Speaker 2: to a lot of people.

1797
01:44:54,840 --> 01:44:57,920
Speaker 3: Like you know, right, So it's like all fleeting and

1798
01:44:58,240 --> 01:44:59,759
Speaker 3: right and yeah.

1799
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:02,920
Speaker 2: So the movie's agenda, I think is to be like, sure,

1800
01:45:03,160 --> 01:45:07,479
Speaker 2: we can all understand why someone would be seduced by this.

1801
01:45:08,000 --> 01:45:09,559
Speaker 2: But remember how there's all this.

1802
01:45:09,920 --> 01:45:14,720
Speaker 3: Fella don't be if you're not, if you're gonna do.

1803
01:45:14,840 --> 01:45:17,599
Speaker 3: It's a cautionary tale against being a good fella exactly.

1804
01:45:18,040 --> 01:45:20,680
Speaker 3: But yeah, I think it is like effective in that way.

1805
01:45:20,840 --> 01:45:23,000
Speaker 3: I get why people watch it the wrong way, but

1806
01:45:23,080 --> 01:45:26,960
Speaker 3: I'm just like, well, hut, it's kind of not Marty's problem,

1807
01:45:27,200 --> 01:45:29,560
Speaker 3: I don't have to say, but like, but also, I

1808
01:45:29,640 --> 01:45:33,240
Speaker 3: mean it is that that is also symptomatic of like

1809
01:45:33,680 --> 01:45:36,960
Speaker 3: being a filmmaker, but also just like existing in a

1810
01:45:37,080 --> 01:45:42,240
Speaker 3: larger movie culture that is always going to prioritize men

1811
01:45:42,560 --> 01:45:44,840
Speaker 3: at the center of stories, because that is like where

1812
01:45:44,880 --> 01:45:48,800
Speaker 3: that problem kind of stems from. Is you know, if

1813
01:45:49,000 --> 01:45:51,760
Speaker 3: every single movie you've ever made is centered around a

1814
01:45:51,840 --> 01:45:55,400
Speaker 3: male character, of course you're at a higher risk for

1815
01:45:56,280 --> 01:46:02,200
Speaker 3: you know, audience members with not I don't know a

1816
01:46:02,240 --> 01:46:04,000
Speaker 3: way to sound it. That doesn't sound like fucking like

1817
01:46:04,240 --> 01:46:07,439
Speaker 3: coastal elite little bit, but like you know, like someone

1818
01:46:07,479 --> 01:46:10,160
Speaker 3: who's not gonna like be thinking super super hard about

1819
01:46:10,320 --> 01:46:12,639
Speaker 3: like the subtext, like, of course it's gonna be higher

1820
01:46:12,640 --> 01:46:14,600
Speaker 3: at risk for that to happen, which I think is

1821
01:46:14,640 --> 01:46:17,960
Speaker 3: why it happens to mainly filmmakers who make movies about

1822
01:46:18,240 --> 01:46:21,439
Speaker 3: men regardless of their gender, because you see that in

1823
01:46:22,280 --> 01:46:23,960
Speaker 3: I don't know, like even a lot of like copaganda.

1824
01:46:24,040 --> 01:46:26,760
Speaker 3: Copaganda is made by people of all genders, and you know,

1825
01:46:27,120 --> 01:46:31,720
Speaker 3: like COVID. So anyway, I mean the way that there

1826
01:46:31,760 --> 01:46:32,439
Speaker 3: are still like.

1827
01:46:34,000 --> 01:46:37,200
Speaker 2: Dipshits who think that Elon Musk is awesome because he's

1828
01:46:37,439 --> 01:46:41,360
Speaker 2: rich and powerful, and it's like, well, no, take one

1829
01:46:41,680 --> 01:46:44,360
Speaker 2: look at anything he's ever said and done, and then

1830
01:46:44,400 --> 01:46:47,320
Speaker 2: you realize what a monster he is. But like, because

1831
01:46:47,600 --> 01:46:51,479
Speaker 2: I mean again, society conditions people to think that money

1832
01:46:51,520 --> 01:46:54,280
Speaker 2: and power are awesome. So if you're able to achieve

1833
01:46:54,360 --> 01:46:58,559
Speaker 2: those things, that equals awesome. So people are gonna bring

1834
01:46:58,600 --> 01:47:03,880
Speaker 2: their own biases into things and interpret things in a

1835
01:47:03,960 --> 01:47:05,720
Speaker 2: way that I think is funked up.

1836
01:47:06,320 --> 01:47:08,280
Speaker 3: And I think that I think that that Marty and

1837
01:47:08,439 --> 01:47:11,799
Speaker 3: Nick I think that they did what they could to provide.

1838
01:47:11,880 --> 01:47:13,840
Speaker 3: Like I think that all the puzzle pieces are there,

1839
01:47:13,960 --> 01:47:17,080
Speaker 3: and whether you choose to connect them is kind of

1840
01:47:17,240 --> 01:47:20,240
Speaker 3: like that's you bringing your own shit to the table,

1841
01:47:20,280 --> 01:47:23,840
Speaker 3: which is part of the whatever. Yeah, silent contract of

1842
01:47:23,880 --> 01:47:26,400
Speaker 3: watching a movie. Doesn't that sound fun watching a movie?

1843
01:47:26,479 --> 01:47:31,680
Speaker 3: It's like silent a silent social contract scary. Can we

1844
01:47:32,000 --> 01:47:35,920
Speaker 3: talk about the casual racism that appears in this movie.

1845
01:47:36,200 --> 01:47:39,920
Speaker 2: Yes, we did bring this up on The Godfather Episode two,

1846
01:47:40,320 --> 01:47:44,360
Speaker 2: but yeah, it's definitely worth repeating. Where all the main

1847
01:47:44,479 --> 01:47:49,200
Speaker 2: characters in this movie are to some degree of Italian descent,

1848
01:47:50,080 --> 01:47:55,120
Speaker 2: and particularly the Tommy character complains about people being prejudiced

1849
01:47:55,120 --> 01:47:56,120
Speaker 2: toward Italians.

1850
01:47:56,560 --> 01:47:59,800
Speaker 3: There's also a discussion of people being prejudiced towards Jewish

1851
01:47:59,800 --> 01:48:03,959
Speaker 3: peace because Karen is from a Jewish family.

1852
01:48:03,920 --> 01:48:07,280
Speaker 2: Right, But then you'll have someone like Tommy and various

1853
01:48:07,320 --> 01:48:11,880
Speaker 2: other characters turning around and dropping the N word talking

1854
01:48:11,920 --> 01:48:15,040
Speaker 2: about Jewish people and disparaging ways murdering.

1855
01:48:15,160 --> 01:48:18,559
Speaker 3: The only black character who appears in the entire fucking movie.

1856
01:48:18,840 --> 01:48:22,320
Speaker 2: You have Samuel L. Jackson in the movie. He's in

1857
01:48:22,360 --> 01:48:25,400
Speaker 2: there for two seconds, like could you use him? Well,

1858
01:48:25,479 --> 01:48:26,560
Speaker 2: are you serious?

1859
01:48:26,720 --> 01:48:28,679
Speaker 3: I gasped. I did not know he was in this movie.

1860
01:48:28,760 --> 01:48:30,639
Speaker 3: I was like, well, that has to be like that's

1861
01:48:30,680 --> 01:48:32,599
Speaker 3: like pre famous, right, pre famous?

1862
01:48:32,880 --> 01:48:35,400
Speaker 2: And j was I think or like he was up

1863
01:48:35,439 --> 01:48:38,400
Speaker 2: and coming, But yeah, not certainly not the name that

1864
01:48:38,560 --> 01:48:41,880
Speaker 2: he is now. But yeah, he's in the movie for

1865
01:48:42,080 --> 01:48:47,360
Speaker 2: like maybe a total of fifteen seconds. Yeah, and he's

1866
01:48:47,840 --> 01:48:50,519
Speaker 2: violently brutally murdered. I would.

1867
01:48:50,720 --> 01:48:52,519
Speaker 3: I think the only thing you can say for that

1868
01:48:52,640 --> 01:48:55,719
Speaker 3: scene is that you don't see it, like it happens

1869
01:48:56,120 --> 01:48:59,680
Speaker 3: just out of frame. But like, even so, it's fucking.

1870
01:48:59,600 --> 01:49:02,439
Speaker 2: It's it's still really hard to it's still very brutal,

1871
01:49:02,520 --> 01:49:05,120
Speaker 2: like you see like the blood splatter, it's like it's

1872
01:49:05,479 --> 01:49:09,240
Speaker 2: ugh and like aside from his character and I think

1873
01:49:09,360 --> 01:49:13,160
Speaker 2: like a doctor who gives valume to Henry Hill. Yes,

1874
01:49:13,600 --> 01:49:16,479
Speaker 2: this is a version of New York where there are

1875
01:49:16,720 --> 01:49:20,120
Speaker 2: almost no people of color living and working there, or

1876
01:49:20,160 --> 01:49:20,639
Speaker 2: at very.

1877
01:49:20,680 --> 01:49:23,960
Speaker 3: Least the movie has no interest in showing it. And

1878
01:49:24,280 --> 01:49:29,040
Speaker 3: like I again am like I wonder how pulled from

1879
01:49:29,200 --> 01:49:33,559
Speaker 3: historical precedent sequences like that are because it's it also

1880
01:49:33,840 --> 01:49:38,519
Speaker 3: is like, you know, dishonest to portray New Yorkers in

1881
01:49:38,600 --> 01:49:42,960
Speaker 3: the sixties and seventies as being extremely tolerant, or as

1882
01:49:44,000 --> 01:49:48,680
Speaker 3: non black New Yorkers as being extremely tolerant, but this

1883
01:49:48,880 --> 01:49:52,120
Speaker 3: movie like doesn't really have any interest in exploring any

1884
01:49:52,160 --> 01:49:57,360
Speaker 3: of it. I think it's almost like Tommy's mask off racism.

1885
01:49:57,439 --> 01:49:59,920
Speaker 3: I think more so than any other character like repeat,

1886
01:50:00,080 --> 01:50:03,600
Speaker 3: because there's is more of like a character trait to

1887
01:50:03,640 --> 01:50:06,600
Speaker 3: show you how insecure he is, not something that the

1888
01:50:06,680 --> 01:50:10,320
Speaker 3: movie's actually interested in exploring, because if they were interested

1889
01:50:10,360 --> 01:50:12,880
Speaker 3: in exploring it, there would be a black character in

1890
01:50:12,960 --> 01:50:16,080
Speaker 3: the movie who's in the movie for longer than a minute,

1891
01:50:16,320 --> 01:50:17,719
Speaker 3: right exactly.

1892
01:50:18,280 --> 01:50:19,240
Speaker 2: So it is like it.

1893
01:50:20,080 --> 01:50:23,800
Speaker 3: I was frustrated with like the use of you know,

1894
01:50:23,920 --> 01:50:27,280
Speaker 3: realistic for the time racism, but like the I was

1895
01:50:27,320 --> 01:50:29,280
Speaker 3: frustrated that, like, you know, racism was used as a

1896
01:50:29,320 --> 01:50:31,519
Speaker 3: shorthand to be like, well, this guy isn't as friendly

1897
01:50:31,560 --> 01:50:34,840
Speaker 3: as he seems. He's very racist, and you're like, okay,

1898
01:50:35,160 --> 01:50:38,080
Speaker 3: Like I don't know. I did think it was I guess,

1899
01:50:38,120 --> 01:50:40,280
Speaker 3: I don't know. It stuck with me. I guess that

1900
01:50:40,560 --> 01:50:45,280
Speaker 3: In the first scene with the girlfriends, Tommy's girlfriend mentions that,

1901
01:50:45,560 --> 01:50:47,400
Speaker 3: like I think she says, like, oh, I saw you know,

1902
01:50:47,520 --> 01:50:50,960
Speaker 3: Sammy Davis Junior Reform and he's so handsome, Like I

1903
01:50:51,080 --> 01:50:53,840
Speaker 3: totally understand, like why you know, people have a crush

1904
01:50:53,880 --> 01:50:58,200
Speaker 3: on him and stuff, and Tommy, being both racist and

1905
01:50:58,479 --> 01:51:04,719
Speaker 3: deeply insecure, goes nuts about this and says a series

1906
01:51:04,800 --> 01:51:08,120
Speaker 3: of racist things like that I don't even care to repeat.

1907
01:51:08,160 --> 01:51:10,280
Speaker 3: But I thought it was interesting that the movie chose

1908
01:51:10,360 --> 01:51:14,680
Speaker 3: to like hang on that moment, because it does make

1909
01:51:14,760 --> 01:51:17,080
Speaker 3: it clear, like I don't even know how to feel

1910
01:51:17,080 --> 01:51:18,800
Speaker 3: about it, but like it does make it clear how

1911
01:51:19,000 --> 01:51:22,640
Speaker 3: like his like male fragility and white fragility are like

1912
01:51:22,960 --> 01:51:27,320
Speaker 3: overlapping in that scene in a way that is like

1913
01:51:28,000 --> 01:51:31,240
Speaker 3: uncomfortable for people at the table. But no one says anything.

1914
01:51:31,640 --> 01:51:34,920
Speaker 3: And it's and and the girlfriend because I mean, I

1915
01:51:34,960 --> 01:51:37,680
Speaker 3: don't know, like I was assuming because of her, you know,

1916
01:51:38,000 --> 01:51:42,559
Speaker 3: lack of power in this dynamic has to like back

1917
01:51:42,680 --> 01:51:47,320
Speaker 3: off of a very innocuous comment about a hot man being.

1918
01:51:47,240 --> 01:51:48,839
Speaker 2: Hot right exactly.

1919
01:51:49,080 --> 01:51:50,960
Speaker 3: And I don't know. I just thought it was interesting

1920
01:51:51,000 --> 01:51:54,479
Speaker 3: that that the movie, because it's not like an important well,

1921
01:51:54,600 --> 01:51:56,680
Speaker 3: it could have been cut. So I just thought it

1922
01:51:56,760 --> 01:51:59,560
Speaker 3: was interesting that it was left as a way to

1923
01:51:59,760 --> 01:52:04,360
Speaker 3: like show you a very specific way that Tommy's different toxic,

1924
01:52:04,600 --> 01:52:08,920
Speaker 3: insecure qualities were like intersecting in this weird moment.

1925
01:52:09,040 --> 01:52:16,320
Speaker 2: I don't know for sure, Let's see, do you have

1926
01:52:16,520 --> 01:52:21,840
Speaker 2: anything else you wanna touch on? I do appreciate that

1927
01:52:21,960 --> 01:52:27,880
Speaker 2: the movie shows you how corrupt and easily bought off cops.

1928
01:52:28,920 --> 01:52:31,920
Speaker 3: Yes, I also like that. I don't think I have

1929
01:52:32,200 --> 01:52:37,000
Speaker 3: really very much else to say about it. I mean, yeah,

1930
01:52:37,040 --> 01:52:40,760
Speaker 3: I think it's ultimately I liked how one dog was

1931
01:52:40,800 --> 01:52:43,160
Speaker 3: facing east and the other dog is facing west.

1932
01:52:43,320 --> 01:52:46,799
Speaker 2: I wrote in my notes Feminist Icon Tommy's Mom's painting

1933
01:52:47,360 --> 01:52:47,559
Speaker 2: you know.

1934
01:52:47,600 --> 01:52:50,960
Speaker 3: True, which was apparently Nick Poleggio's mom's painting.

1935
01:52:51,840 --> 01:52:52,360
Speaker 1: I really liked.

1936
01:52:52,360 --> 01:52:54,759
Speaker 3: There were a lot of like very sweet personal touches

1937
01:52:54,800 --> 01:52:57,680
Speaker 3: that you're just like, you gotta love Marty. Both his

1938
01:52:57,840 --> 01:53:00,600
Speaker 3: parents are in the movie his Mother's Sweetheart.

1939
01:53:00,800 --> 01:53:01,840
Speaker 2: Who does his dad play?

1940
01:53:02,720 --> 01:53:05,479
Speaker 3: I didn't recognize it in the movie, but he plays

1941
01:53:06,320 --> 01:53:11,879
Speaker 3: Charles Scorsese plays Vinny, which it could be fucking anybody

1942
01:53:11,960 --> 01:53:15,640
Speaker 3: who knows, But I think that that's like a thing

1943
01:53:15,800 --> 01:53:19,080
Speaker 3: for Scorsese, as his parents are in almost all of

1944
01:53:19,160 --> 01:53:22,400
Speaker 3: his movies for as long as they're alive. Like, it's

1945
01:53:22,520 --> 01:53:24,479
Speaker 3: very very sweet. Yeah, because it's if you look at

1946
01:53:24,560 --> 01:53:30,519
Speaker 3: if you look at Charles Scorsese's IMDb Wikipedia page, it's

1947
01:53:30,800 --> 01:53:33,599
Speaker 3: he's in Taxi Driver, he is in Raging Bull, He's

1948
01:53:33,760 --> 01:53:36,720
Speaker 3: in King of Comedy. He's in Muppets Take Manhattan. I

1949
01:53:36,760 --> 01:53:38,280
Speaker 3: don't even know why he's in that one.

1950
01:53:38,840 --> 01:53:43,320
Speaker 2: There's a lot of Muppet crossovers. Also, Yeah, and he's

1951
01:53:43,360 --> 01:53:44,280
Speaker 2: in Moonstruck.

1952
01:53:44,400 --> 01:53:47,800
Speaker 3: Why is he in moonstruck, like he's like, you know,

1953
01:53:48,160 --> 01:53:51,680
Speaker 3: he's Italian in New York, plasta meAll canon. Like, I

1954
01:53:51,800 --> 01:53:53,800
Speaker 3: just think it's very I just think that that's like

1955
01:53:54,360 --> 01:53:57,200
Speaker 3: yet another way that you're like, what a sweetye pie.

1956
01:53:57,680 --> 01:54:03,000
Speaker 2: Also, well, speaking of some production things people who were

1957
01:54:03,080 --> 01:54:06,680
Speaker 2: in or worked on the movie, this movie has an

1958
01:54:06,880 --> 01:54:11,080
Speaker 2: editor who is a woman, Thelma scoon Maker love that

1959
01:54:11,960 --> 01:54:15,200
Speaker 2: maybe how you pronounce it, And she was nominated for

1960
01:54:15,600 --> 01:54:18,320
Speaker 2: an Academy Award for the editing on this movie.

1961
01:54:18,680 --> 01:54:21,800
Speaker 3: She's a bit of a legend. She's Martin Scorsese's go

1962
01:54:21,880 --> 01:54:23,320
Speaker 3: to editor to this day.

1963
01:54:23,439 --> 01:54:26,519
Speaker 2: And the editing in this movie is really solid. Yeah,

1964
01:54:26,560 --> 01:54:31,759
Speaker 2: so shouts out Thelma. The production designer is a woman,

1965
01:54:32,240 --> 01:54:37,080
Speaker 2: Krista z or Zia, and a woman was the executive

1966
01:54:37,080 --> 01:54:40,720
Speaker 2: producer on this movie, Barbara Dafina, Which, you know, we

1967
01:54:41,240 --> 01:54:43,480
Speaker 2: just tend to mention these things because those are roles

1968
01:54:43,600 --> 01:54:47,600
Speaker 2: often that men occupy to this day, especially on like

1969
01:54:47,760 --> 01:54:53,960
Speaker 2: major Hollywood productions. So cool that you've got a handful

1970
01:54:54,000 --> 01:54:58,600
Speaker 2: of very major roles occupied by women. Yeah, and I

1971
01:54:59,040 --> 01:55:01,080
Speaker 2: totally agree. I mean that the editing in this movie

1972
01:55:01,240 --> 01:55:05,840
Speaker 2: is wild. There's so many cuts. It's so much like

1973
01:55:05,960 --> 01:55:07,920
Speaker 2: I just got stressed out watching because I was like

1974
01:55:08,120 --> 01:55:09,680
Speaker 2: someone was in the trenches.

1975
01:55:10,120 --> 01:55:12,920
Speaker 3: But yeah, she did. Did she win?

1976
01:55:13,840 --> 01:55:16,560
Speaker 2: She did not win. The only this movie was nominated

1977
01:55:16,640 --> 01:55:21,160
Speaker 2: for six Academy Awards, The only one did it received

1978
01:55:22,200 --> 01:55:25,560
Speaker 2: was for Joe Peschi's Supporting Actor.

1979
01:55:26,280 --> 01:55:29,240
Speaker 3: And I think, okay, so does this movie pass the

1980
01:55:29,280 --> 01:55:29,880
Speaker 3: Bechdel test?

1981
01:55:31,080 --> 01:55:35,960
Speaker 2: It does not unless you count one dog facing east

1982
01:55:36,000 --> 01:55:38,760
Speaker 2: and one dog facing west. It's passing the Bechdel test,

1983
01:55:38,800 --> 01:55:41,600
Speaker 2: which in a way just got back to each other there.

1984
01:55:42,920 --> 01:55:44,880
Speaker 3: I don't think that passes thet all fine.

1985
01:55:46,240 --> 01:55:49,240
Speaker 2: There is very little in the way of women interacting

1986
01:55:49,280 --> 01:55:51,600
Speaker 2: in this movie, aside from that one scene where it's

1987
01:55:51,640 --> 01:55:55,800
Speaker 2: a bunch of the Mob wives mostly gossiping with each other.

1988
01:55:55,880 --> 01:55:58,320
Speaker 2: Because women be gossiping and there might.

1989
01:55:58,240 --> 01:56:01,839
Speaker 3: Be a stray. I mean it's possible, because there's possible

1990
01:56:01,880 --> 01:56:04,400
Speaker 3: there's a stray interaction. I would say spiritually it doesn't

1991
01:56:04,440 --> 01:56:06,680
Speaker 3: because it's like, yeah, I agree, Mob, Wi've seen you

1992
01:56:06,800 --> 01:56:10,440
Speaker 3: have a scene where I may have caught like there

1993
01:56:10,600 --> 01:56:14,560
Speaker 3: there's like maybe a single exchange inside of Karen talking

1994
01:56:14,600 --> 01:56:18,840
Speaker 3: to her mother that passes, but they're mostly talking about her.

1995
01:56:18,880 --> 01:56:20,080
Speaker 2: Marriage, about Henry.

1996
01:56:20,440 --> 01:56:25,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then she screams into uh, like the intercom

1997
01:56:26,320 --> 01:56:31,360
Speaker 3: at Janie's apartment, but Janie is crying. Is it incretively important? Yes,

1998
01:56:31,560 --> 01:56:34,000
Speaker 3: but it is all about Henry. I don't think we

1999
01:56:34,120 --> 01:56:38,560
Speaker 3: ever see her like have a conversation with her daughters.

2000
01:56:38,960 --> 01:56:41,520
Speaker 3: I kind of thought, honestly that because there was that

2001
01:56:41,680 --> 01:56:44,600
Speaker 3: lingering shot on their oldest daughter watching them fight, that

2002
01:56:45,440 --> 01:56:48,120
Speaker 3: maybe the daughters would have just like appeared a little

2003
01:56:48,160 --> 01:56:50,800
Speaker 3: more meaningfully later on. But it's not a big criticism.

2004
01:56:50,840 --> 01:56:52,960
Speaker 3: I just sort of thought that this movie does not

2005
01:56:53,440 --> 01:56:57,440
Speaker 3: really care about the children, no and b well, and

2006
01:56:57,520 --> 01:57:02,600
Speaker 3: to be fair, neither do their parents, so it's fair point.

2007
01:57:03,480 --> 01:57:05,600
Speaker 3: So yeah, no, I do not think this movie passes

2008
01:57:05,800 --> 01:57:09,800
Speaker 3: the Bechdel test, at least not the way we play it.

2009
01:57:10,000 --> 01:57:13,280
Speaker 3: But our nipple scale. Though the nipple scale, oh boy,

2010
01:57:13,560 --> 01:57:14,480
Speaker 3: you know, I.

2011
01:57:17,480 --> 01:57:19,520
Speaker 2: Want to do a split down the middle for this one.

2012
01:57:19,680 --> 01:57:23,360
Speaker 2: It might seem I like the cheating, but I'm gonna

2013
01:57:23,360 --> 01:57:28,040
Speaker 2: give it two point five nipples. And because like comparing

2014
01:57:28,120 --> 01:57:31,840
Speaker 2: it to a movie like The Godfather, it's doing a

2015
01:57:31,960 --> 01:57:37,800
Speaker 2: lot more as far as characterizing the women Slash mostly

2016
01:57:37,960 --> 01:57:42,360
Speaker 2: just that one woman of Karen, and giving the audience

2017
01:57:42,480 --> 01:57:47,560
Speaker 2: insight into her feelings, her perspective, all the things that

2018
01:57:47,640 --> 01:57:49,920
Speaker 2: she's dealing with and all of the things that the

2019
01:57:50,000 --> 01:57:52,760
Speaker 2: movie The Godfather did not bother to do because it

2020
01:57:53,000 --> 01:57:55,120
Speaker 2: just clearly did not give a shit about the women

2021
01:57:55,160 --> 01:57:58,240
Speaker 2: who occupy this world. Now this movie seems to care

2022
01:57:58,480 --> 01:58:04,320
Speaker 2: a lot more about that, but it's ultimately still a

2023
01:58:04,480 --> 01:58:16,080
Speaker 2: story about the good Fellas. Of you to say, you know,

2024
01:58:16,480 --> 01:58:19,880
Speaker 2: you might not know it, but Goodfellas is about the Goodfellas.

2025
01:58:20,200 --> 01:58:24,360
Speaker 2: But they're bad, Kaitlin, So they're bad, and the movie

2026
01:58:24,680 --> 01:58:29,360
Speaker 2: is like it's offering criticism about the Goodfellas and actually

2027
01:58:29,440 --> 01:58:33,640
Speaker 2: maybe saying that they're not goodfellas, that they are perhaps

2028
01:58:34,000 --> 01:58:40,240
Speaker 2: bad fellas. Guy, But at the end of the day,

2029
01:58:41,320 --> 01:58:46,000
Speaker 2: there's still only one woman that the movie has any

2030
01:58:46,040 --> 01:58:50,840
Speaker 2: real concern about. Uh, still still focuses on the men.

2031
01:58:51,560 --> 01:58:54,600
Speaker 2: I don't know, just uh, you know, it's it's a

2032
01:58:54,640 --> 01:58:56,360
Speaker 2: step in the right direction, but.

2033
01:58:56,640 --> 01:58:59,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's I view it as kind of like in

2034
01:59:00,120 --> 01:59:02,680
Speaker 3: the genre of like it's I mean, it's like a

2035
01:59:02,800 --> 01:59:06,120
Speaker 3: super myopic genre right where it's like only interested in

2036
01:59:06,240 --> 01:59:10,200
Speaker 3: a very very very specific group of men, and it

2037
01:59:10,280 --> 01:59:14,760
Speaker 3: doesn't really stray out of the myopic focus. But like

2038
01:59:15,000 --> 01:59:19,600
Speaker 3: of the movies that we've covered that have this myopic focus.

2039
01:59:20,440 --> 01:59:24,960
Speaker 3: It does the most and gets the most mileage out

2040
01:59:25,000 --> 01:59:27,680
Speaker 3: of that myopic focus because obviously there's a ton of

2041
01:59:27,760 --> 01:59:32,720
Speaker 3: people excluded when the focus is this specific, right, but

2042
01:59:32,880 --> 01:59:35,040
Speaker 3: this is but this is the most I've seen of

2043
01:59:35,280 --> 01:59:39,400
Speaker 3: like taking interest in everyone in this myopic focus.

2044
01:59:40,080 --> 01:59:43,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, which isn't to say it's perfect, right exactly, so

2045
01:59:44,720 --> 01:59:47,400
Speaker 2: it's complicated, but even so, I'll give it two and

2046
01:59:47,440 --> 01:59:50,840
Speaker 2: a half apples. I'll give one nipple to the dog

2047
01:59:50,920 --> 01:59:53,760
Speaker 2: that's facing east. I'll give one nipple to the dog

2048
01:59:53,800 --> 01:59:58,800
Speaker 2: that's facing west. And then that's not fair. I'll give

2049
01:59:58,840 --> 02:00:02,560
Speaker 2: one nipple to Karen. I'll give one nipple to Tommy's

2050
02:00:02,640 --> 02:00:08,200
Speaker 2: mom aka Missus Scorsese, who's just giving the performance of

2051
02:00:08,240 --> 02:00:11,520
Speaker 2: a lifetime. Her whole thing is that whole scene.

2052
02:00:11,960 --> 02:00:13,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, amazing is that.

2053
02:00:13,280 --> 02:00:15,640
Speaker 2: She took some UCB classes if I've ever seen it,

2054
02:00:16,200 --> 02:00:19,600
Speaker 2: Oh boy, did she? I love that her whole thing?

2055
02:00:19,640 --> 02:00:22,440
Speaker 2: I mean, I love I think it's funny that her

2056
02:00:22,480 --> 02:00:25,440
Speaker 2: whole thing is Tommy. Why don't you find a wife

2057
02:00:25,560 --> 02:00:30,560
Speaker 2: and settle down, like your friend Henry kays, Like, mom

2058
02:00:30,760 --> 02:00:34,240
Speaker 2: too busy fucking a different woman every night, Leave me alone.

2059
02:00:34,560 --> 02:00:39,760
Speaker 3: Wait, till I tell my friend McCaulay about this. I

2060
02:00:39,960 --> 02:00:42,040
Speaker 3: like to think that Joe Pesci would be on set.

2061
02:00:42,200 --> 02:00:45,200
Speaker 3: This is like so fake, but this is like I

2062
02:00:45,360 --> 02:00:48,920
Speaker 3: just heard of Hollywood today. I think that Joe Pesci

2063
02:00:48,960 --> 02:00:51,120
Speaker 3: would be on set a Good Fellas from eight am

2064
02:00:51,480 --> 02:00:54,280
Speaker 3: until one pm, and then he'd drive over to home

2065
02:00:54,280 --> 02:00:57,880
Speaker 3: alone and be slipping and sliding around for the rest

2066
02:00:57,960 --> 02:00:58,320
Speaker 3: of the day.

2067
02:00:58,440 --> 02:01:01,240
Speaker 2: Wow, he's a busy guy that he's got a lot

2068
02:01:01,320 --> 02:01:01,880
Speaker 2: on his plate.

2069
02:01:02,840 --> 02:01:03,640
Speaker 3: Bless his heart.

2070
02:01:04,840 --> 02:01:08,880
Speaker 2: So okay, So one nipple, Karen, one nipple to Tommy's mom,

2071
02:01:09,120 --> 02:01:12,640
Speaker 2: and I'll give my half nipple to feminist icon the

2072
02:01:12,760 --> 02:01:15,120
Speaker 2: Dog Painting. I'm gonna go.

2073
02:01:15,120 --> 02:01:17,200
Speaker 3: Two and a half as well. Like we've been talking

2074
02:01:17,200 --> 02:01:19,720
Speaker 3: about this whole time, you know, like as far as

2075
02:01:20,280 --> 02:01:23,480
Speaker 3: a mob movie that focuses on the Italian American mob

2076
02:01:23,680 --> 02:01:26,280
Speaker 3: in the mid twentieth century, of which there are so

2077
02:01:26,680 --> 02:01:30,840
Speaker 3: many movies, this is my favorite one that I've seen.

2078
02:01:31,600 --> 02:01:34,360
Speaker 3: But also if you're a listener and you have seen

2079
02:01:34,400 --> 02:01:36,200
Speaker 3: one that you like even more, I would be curious

2080
02:01:36,280 --> 02:01:38,400
Speaker 3: to see. Honestly, I might not watch it. I feel

2081
02:01:38,400 --> 02:01:41,680
Speaker 3: like I feel like I get it, But I actually

2082
02:01:41,720 --> 02:01:44,680
Speaker 3: really did enjoy this movie. I think that, you know,

2083
02:01:44,920 --> 02:01:47,960
Speaker 3: if you're stacking these movies against each other, which is

2084
02:01:48,040 --> 02:01:50,600
Speaker 3: like sort of kind of what we've been doing this month,

2085
02:01:51,040 --> 02:01:54,640
Speaker 3: intentionally or not, you know, I if you've got to

2086
02:01:54,720 --> 02:01:59,280
Speaker 3: have two white guys coming at this material, I feel

2087
02:01:59,680 --> 02:02:05,400
Speaker 3: far better about Scorsese and a man that Nora Evron

2088
02:02:05,480 --> 02:02:11,560
Speaker 3: deems worthy of love of then of the other team. However,

2089
02:02:12,360 --> 02:02:14,120
Speaker 3: I do think that both movies are really, really good.

2090
02:02:14,120 --> 02:02:16,760
Speaker 3: I understand why they hold their place in history. I

2091
02:02:17,200 --> 02:02:20,920
Speaker 3: still want my Connie and Kay Rosenkranz and Gildenstarter Dead movie.

2092
02:02:21,120 --> 02:02:23,240
Speaker 3: I'm giving this movie two and a half nipples because

2093
02:02:23,360 --> 02:02:25,280
Speaker 3: I think that you made an excellent point at the

2094
02:02:25,360 --> 02:02:29,160
Speaker 3: end that there were women meaningfully involved behind the camera,

2095
02:02:29,280 --> 02:02:32,000
Speaker 3: which you don't hear a lot about to this day.

2096
02:02:32,480 --> 02:02:35,680
Speaker 3: This is this movie over thirty years old. I think,

2097
02:02:35,760 --> 02:02:39,200
Speaker 3: you know Marty, you know he's got a shit together.

2098
02:02:39,480 --> 02:02:41,920
Speaker 3: So give it two and a half. I'm gonna give

2099
02:02:41,960 --> 02:02:47,640
Speaker 3: one to Karen, and I'm gonna give one too Marty's mother,

2100
02:02:48,320 --> 02:02:52,360
Speaker 3: and then I'll give my last half to Joe Pesh

2101
02:02:52,520 --> 02:02:53,680
Speaker 3: saying oh shit.

2102
02:02:55,200 --> 02:03:00,640
Speaker 2: And then getting his head blown off. That's the Uppis folks.

2103
02:03:00,720 --> 02:03:04,200
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for listening. If you liked it,

2104
02:03:04,440 --> 02:03:11,880
Speaker 2: you can check out other similar wacky wild Matreon episodes.

2105
02:03:11,920 --> 02:03:15,120
Speaker 2: Because we only unlock like, I don't know, less than

2106
02:03:15,160 --> 02:03:16,200
Speaker 2: five percent of them.

2107
02:03:16,440 --> 02:03:20,840
Speaker 3: Yeah if that if Yeah, we unlock very very few

2108
02:03:20,920 --> 02:03:23,480
Speaker 3: of them because we wanted to be special. And that's

2109
02:03:23,520 --> 02:03:26,320
Speaker 3: also you don't just get bonus episodes. You also get

2110
02:03:26,400 --> 02:03:29,080
Speaker 3: kind of access to the Matreon community. You get access

2111
02:03:29,200 --> 02:03:32,520
Speaker 3: to discounted tickets to advance merch all that good stuff.

2112
02:03:33,200 --> 02:03:36,280
Speaker 3: So again that's patreon dot com slash Bechdel Cast. It

2113
02:03:36,480 --> 02:03:40,160
Speaker 3: is the best way to support the show other than

2114
02:03:40,240 --> 02:03:43,680
Speaker 3: coming to a show, which if you're in the area

2115
02:03:43,760 --> 02:03:46,760
Speaker 3: in Los Angeles, San Francisco or Portland, Oregon, comes see

2116
02:03:46,800 --> 02:03:49,760
Speaker 3: us in person. If you're not, grab a virtual ticket

2117
02:03:49,880 --> 02:03:52,880
Speaker 3: to the LA or Portland shows. So well, we'll see

2118
02:03:52,920 --> 02:03:54,440
Speaker 3: you soon regardless, So.

2119
02:03:54,520 --> 02:03:57,080
Speaker 2: Sure you can get those tickets at link tree slash

2120
02:03:57,200 --> 02:04:02,440
Speaker 2: Bechdel Cast. Also that link is the description of this episode,

2121
02:04:02,680 --> 02:04:07,000
Speaker 2: and we will see you there.

2122
02:04:07,280 --> 02:04:09,520
Speaker 3: And we'll see you next week with a brand new episode.

2123
02:04:09,800 --> 02:04:11,040
Speaker 3: Bye bye bye.

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Speaker 2: The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by

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Speaker 2: Caitlin Derante and Jamie loftis produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited

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Speaker 2: by Mola bord. Our theme song was composed by Mike

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Speaker 2: Kaplan with vocals by Katherine Voskressenski. Our logo in Merch

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Speaker 2: is designed by Jamie Loftis and a special thanks to

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Speaker 2: Aristotle Assevedo. For more information about the podcast, please visit

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Speaker 2: Linktree Slash Bechdel Cast