WEBVTT - Dolphin CEO on Creating 'Doc Busters'

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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<v Speaker 2>This is Bloomberg BusinessWeek with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebeck

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<v Speaker 2>on Bloomberg Radio.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, the world of entertainment and content back on our

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<v Speaker 1>radar today. This as a bidding war for Paramount Global.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe in the making of Seagram air. Edgar Brofman Junior

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<v Speaker 1>is said to be close to making an offer for

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<v Speaker 1>Paramount Global, setting off that bidding war for the film

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<v Speaker 1>and TV company that owns CBS and MTV. This is

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<v Speaker 1>according to a Bloomberg exclusive. You can read all the

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<v Speaker 1>deals just head to Bloomberg dot com or check it

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<v Speaker 1>out on the Bloomberg terminal. Well, our next guest is

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<v Speaker 1>definitely in the content and entertainment space. Let's get to

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<v Speaker 1>Bill Odoud. He is the CEO of the microcaps sixteen

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<v Speaker 1>million dollar market cap company. It's an entertainment, marketing and

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<v Speaker 1>content production company and it is known as Dauphin Entertainment.

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<v Speaker 1>He joins us from Miami. Bill, good to be talking

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<v Speaker 1>with you. How are you.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm very good, Thank you, Carol, thank you for having

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<v Speaker 2>me on.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, great to have you here. Let's start with kind

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<v Speaker 1>of the nuts and bolts. If we may just reported

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<v Speaker 1>earnings this week. Your release said record second quarter revenue,

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<v Speaker 1>remind our world, the Bloomberg world, the investing world about

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<v Speaker 1>what your company does and the latest update and the

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<v Speaker 1>outlook for your business.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure, well, thank you for that. Well, we do three

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<v Speaker 2>things all in one. We started as a production company

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<v Speaker 2>film and TV producers, and we still do that, having

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<v Speaker 2>just released The Blue Angels with Imax this spring. Then

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<v Speaker 2>we started assembling investing class PR and marketing, special events,

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<v Speaker 2>influencer marketing companies around entertainment. And then we started investing

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<v Speaker 2>in things that we could market, like consumer products. So

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<v Speaker 2>we're very excited for that.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, So talk to us about the quarter and

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<v Speaker 1>the business, look back, look forward in terms of we

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<v Speaker 1>mentioned the headline in terms of second quarter revenue, specifically

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<v Speaker 1>in terms of a record that's according to you guys.

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<v Speaker 1>Talked to us about a little bit of the business

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<v Speaker 1>and where the growth is coming from, because you mentioned

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<v Speaker 1>like kind of these three areas. So where's the growth been,

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<v Speaker 1>where's it going?

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<v Speaker 2>Sure? Yeah, Well we've been blessed with a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>organic growth. The companies work together create synergy between you know,

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<v Speaker 2>creating campaigns for motion pictures or consumer products that may

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<v Speaker 2>want both PR and influencer marketing as an example, or

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<v Speaker 2>event marketing with influencer, let's say. And in addition, we're

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<v Speaker 2>growing going back into production. The Blue Angels was a

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<v Speaker 2>big hit for us in partnership with Imax, and that

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<v Speaker 2>was certainly part of the revenue increase as well.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, it's interesting, well and that Imax partnership, how much

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<v Speaker 1>more can you leverage out of it? Right, Like, this

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<v Speaker 1>is something that sounds like it's got some legs and

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<v Speaker 1>I'm curious where you take it.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure, yeah, thank you. It's a multi year partnership. We're

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<v Speaker 2>used to doing that with Dolphin. We were partners with

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<v Speaker 2>Nickelodeon for years and years in making children's content and

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<v Speaker 2>have had fifty to fifty partnerships in the past with

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<v Speaker 2>Warners or others. So we hope to be doing documentaries

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<v Speaker 2>with Imax for years to come. It's certainly a great

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<v Speaker 2>partner to do documentaries with because you can do these

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<v Speaker 2>big spectacle documentaries, dockbusters as we call them, that really

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<v Speaker 2>deserve to be seen on the big screen, like The

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<v Speaker 2>Blue Angels.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and we you know the press release that you

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<v Speaker 1>guys put out it talked about you know, debuting as

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<v Speaker 1>number one on Prime video. Over the Memorial Day holiday,

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<v Speaker 1>it grossed what over two million at the box office IMAX,

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<v Speaker 1>and that included a top ten debut with about one

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<v Speaker 1>point four million in its opening weekend. That what did

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<v Speaker 1>you call it? Dockbusters?

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<v Speaker 2>That's right?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So where else do you go with like do

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<v Speaker 1>you just continue to do more of that? And how

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<v Speaker 1>expensive is it to do and build out that content?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, documentaries are less expensive than the bigger feature of course,

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<v Speaker 2>so they typically range in the three to five million range,

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<v Speaker 2>let's say for theatrical Obviously you can make them for

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<v Speaker 2>less or more, and we do think there's an opening

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<v Speaker 2>to do one or two of those a year. They

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<v Speaker 2>certainly program well, there are gaps in the year where

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<v Speaker 2>there wouldn't be studio content available or fresh studio content

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<v Speaker 2>to put into IMAX. And also we think our partnership

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<v Speaker 2>is expanding into live streaming as well. You know, we

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<v Speaker 2>could do music specials, Broadway specials, comedy specials, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>one night only type things that would really juice, we

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<v Speaker 2>hope the box office, especially midweek. When do you.

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<v Speaker 1>Start to do something like that or what's involved in

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<v Speaker 1>getting into that area more aggressively?

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<v Speaker 2>We hope to launch that in the first quarter of

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<v Speaker 2>next year, and IMAX has already been doing some of

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<v Speaker 2>that themselves, and it's a natural extension of our partnership

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<v Speaker 2>to go into that content together.

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<v Speaker 1>What's the challenge in all of this, because I do

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<v Speaker 1>feel like, you know, Bill, I think it's safe to

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<v Speaker 1>say we cover this a lot at Bloomberg that I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>there's a lot of places to view content, there's a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of content creators, but there's a lot of people

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<v Speaker 1>vuying for that content. So what's the stuff that really

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<v Speaker 1>you think moves the needle in terms of engaging with

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<v Speaker 1>the consumer Because I know, I get to a point

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<v Speaker 1>where I'm just overwhelmed and I'm done, and I pick

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<v Speaker 1>up a book and read. But I just wonder, right,

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<v Speaker 1>you've got to kind of read through a lot of stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure to. And I like reading too, so I understand completely.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think a lot of people try, and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>thread the needle by thinking about what would work best

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<v Speaker 2>in which type of delivery. You know, when you talk

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<v Speaker 2>something like an iMac system then and network, then you're

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<v Speaker 2>talking you want that spectacle, something that warrants people coming

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<v Speaker 2>out and spending the money, you know, on the smaller

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<v Speaker 2>screen and the steep streaming wars. You're seeing a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of people look for different types of content, and if

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<v Speaker 2>you think about the last ten years, the rise of

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<v Speaker 2>documentaries are true crime, especially on the small screen, as

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<v Speaker 2>really exploded.

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<v Speaker 1>What about you mentioned live sports, Broadway comedy other or

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<v Speaker 1>you mentioned Broadway comedy. What about sports in terms of

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<v Speaker 1>last streaming or is that just a too expensive, already crowded?

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<v Speaker 1>The big boys, the big guys are in it.

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<v Speaker 2>I think the live the certainly sporting events, it's probably crowded,

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<v Speaker 2>and those rights only seem to be going up and

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<v Speaker 2>up right. But we do like sports content generally quite

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<v Speaker 2>a bit, and you're seeing a lot of opportunity this

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<v Speaker 2>year around women's sports, and that's an area that we

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<v Speaker 2>really like. We think female athletes have been underserved tremendously,

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<v Speaker 2>and with our influencer marketing companies, we think we could

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<v Speaker 2>expand and bring brand sponsorship deals and just generally income

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<v Speaker 2>to female athletes from speaking engagements, etc.

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<v Speaker 1>You mentioned the influencers, and I thought that was really interesting.

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<v Speaker 1>I know you've got a a relationship with Glow Lab.

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<v Speaker 1>You are the about the younger audience. I mean, first

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<v Speaker 1>of all, a couple things. What is your target audience

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<v Speaker 1>or you don't care, you want to go all over

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<v Speaker 1>the all over the kind of age spectrum.

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<v Speaker 2>I think with influencer you can you can broaden out.

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<v Speaker 2>We started with the core, which you know, female twenty

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<v Speaker 2>five to forty four, let's say beauty, wellness, fashion products.

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<v Speaker 2>But the thing about influencer marketing, it's it's it's grown

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<v Speaker 2>double digits year over year some years, I think triple

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<v Speaker 2>digits simply because there is no one demo anymore. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>And the marriage of influencer with sports is it was

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<v Speaker 2>going to come anyway, but it's certainly accelerated three years

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<v Speaker 2>ago with the Supreme Court ruling. You know, name image

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<v Speaker 2>likeness for college athletes and now this generation are influencers.

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<v Speaker 2>This generation of athletes, right, you could just see Simone

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<v Speaker 2>Biles taking selfies at the Olympics or get ready with

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<v Speaker 2>new videos at the Olympics. And you know that if

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<v Speaker 2>you if you're talking athletes fifteen to twenty five, they're

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<v Speaker 2>digital natives for sure.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, when you think about the work with influencers, as

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<v Speaker 1>you said, I mean you also want to be what

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<v Speaker 1>creating the products that they're involved in or talk to

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<v Speaker 1>us about how you kind of drill down into that relationship,

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<v Speaker 1>which I would assume that opens up even another revenue

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<v Speaker 1>stream for you guys, It shure.

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<v Speaker 2>Does, thank you. Yeah, it's really marrying a couple of

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<v Speaker 2>different aspects of our business. You know, we financed and

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<v Speaker 2>produced television film for twenty years prior to going public.

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<v Speaker 2>We're used to project finance, and then when you marry

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<v Speaker 2>that with the rise of social media and influencer marketing,

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<v Speaker 2>then it's really just applying project finance to consumer product.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, we could develop and bring to market consumer

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<v Speaker 2>products where our form of marketing, especially in entertainment, will

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<v Speaker 2>give us a better chance of success. So when you

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<v Speaker 2>think about beauty cosmetics as an example, those are product

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<v Speaker 2>where influencers and celebrities have long influence success and so

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<v Speaker 2>there we think there are certain product categories like alcohol,

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<v Speaker 2>where the marketing of the product is as important as

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<v Speaker 2>the manufacturing and the distribution itself.

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<v Speaker 1>But it'd be great if you get a piece of both,

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<v Speaker 1>right going forward.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right, that's right, hey, Bill.

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<v Speaker 1>One thing I did want to ask you when we

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<v Speaker 1>were talking a little bit of nuts and bolts in

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<v Speaker 1>terms of the quarter, you are a microcap company. We

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<v Speaker 1>don't on Bloomberg talk a lot to companies that are

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<v Speaker 1>below a buck. And I am curious what you get

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<v Speaker 1>from investors. Stocks down about sixty percent year to date.

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<v Speaker 1>What do you hear from your investors and what are

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<v Speaker 1>your aspirations? Is there something about you know? I understand

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<v Speaker 1>sometimes we start small, we get bigger. What are your

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<v Speaker 1>aspirations for this company? And what do you hear from

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<v Speaker 1>your investors?

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<v Speaker 2>Sure? Yeah, I know. Well, the microcap environment as a whole,

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<v Speaker 2>as I'm sure you know Carol has been had a

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<v Speaker 2>tough year. Yep. We've posted record quarterly revenue three quarters

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<v Speaker 2>in a row so and positive adjusted operating income. So

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<v Speaker 2>we're hopeful and confident that the will be rewarded in

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<v Speaker 2>the market, especially as a microcup doing real revenue with

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<v Speaker 2>real business.

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<v Speaker 1>So is it just investors saying listen, we get it,

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<v Speaker 1>it's the environment? Or what do they want to know

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<v Speaker 1>about your business? In particular? What are the questions you

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<v Speaker 1>get most from investors?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'd say it's mostly about the environment. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>numbers don't lie in terms of what we're doing in

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<v Speaker 2>revenue and adjusted operating income, and we're beating our own projections,

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<v Speaker 2>including the analyst projections out there. So there's there's a

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<v Speaker 2>sense of frustration with some that you know, they just

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<v Speaker 2>wish that, you know, we weren't being lumped in with

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<v Speaker 2>some of the others, But you know, we just have

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<v Speaker 2>to stay the course. I mean, a micro cap that's

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<v Speaker 2>doing fifty million revenue and a sixteen million dollar market cup,

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<v Speaker 2>you'd like to believe that you're about to pop.

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<v Speaker 1>Back when you look at the environment, and I think

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<v Speaker 1>it's you know, Bill, it's an interesting one. We're very

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<v Speaker 1>folkocused on, you know, what's going on in terms of

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<v Speaker 1>FED policy, what's going on in terms of economic data.

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<v Speaker 1>We talked a lot by the end of the week

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<v Speaker 1>about a soft landing, and it looks like things are,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, kind of working out fairly well. Not all

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<v Speaker 1>Americans certainly feel that. We talk a lot about the

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<v Speaker 1>differences between the top and the bottom in terms of

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<v Speaker 1>the economic strata. Having said that, when you look at

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<v Speaker 1>the environment, you're doing deals, you're doing different things. How

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<v Speaker 1>do you describe the US economy right now?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, we're hopeful for the for the rate coaches. I

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<v Speaker 2>think like a lot of people will free up cash

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<v Speaker 2>and discretionary investment. Into the microcap world, small cap world generally, right.

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<v Speaker 2>I think you hear a lot of people talk about that.

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<v Speaker 2>We're not as susceptible to some other companies in terms

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<v Speaker 2>of the interest rates. We've fixed ours in commercial paper already,

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<v Speaker 2>so we feel good about our position. But certainly lower

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<v Speaker 2>interest rates or lower rakes use made would certainly benefit

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<v Speaker 2>the microcap world for sure.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, Yeah, No, we talked about that actually earlier

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<v Speaker 1>in terms of small caps and the importance of economic

0:12:09.080 --> 0:12:12.600
<v Speaker 1>growth as well as in terms of the interest rate environment, bigger,

0:12:12.640 --> 0:12:15.240
<v Speaker 1>broader picture. We've spent a lot of time talking about

0:12:15.320 --> 0:12:17.439
<v Speaker 1>kind of what happens to some of the big media players.

0:12:17.440 --> 0:12:20.040
<v Speaker 1>We talk about streaming so much. You are in the

0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:24.160
<v Speaker 1>content business. What do you make of all of what's

0:12:24.200 --> 0:12:26.000
<v Speaker 1>going on in the streaming world. It's a lot of

0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:28.960
<v Speaker 1>competition for all of our eyeballs, and there are obviously

0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:31.320
<v Speaker 1>some very clear winners and some that are having a

0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:31.920
<v Speaker 1>tougher time.

0:12:33.559 --> 0:12:36.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And we're blessed where our film and television PR

0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:40.240
<v Speaker 2>firm forty two West, works with almost every major streamer

0:12:41.000 --> 0:12:44.320
<v Speaker 2>out there, and we promote shows on so many different platforms,

0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:49.520
<v Speaker 2>from Netflix to Amazon to Hulu and paramount plus, etc.

0:12:49.920 --> 0:12:55.160
<v Speaker 2>So we see a lot of them contracting some in

0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:57.360
<v Speaker 2>terms of investment, as I'm sure you've talked about quite

0:12:57.400 --> 0:13:02.120
<v Speaker 2>a bit. But the sheer volume of programming the last

0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:04.400
<v Speaker 2>few years has been overwhelming to a lot of consumers,

0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:07.040
<v Speaker 2>I think, And probably this is for the best.

0:13:07.080 --> 0:13:09.640
<v Speaker 1>And so you don't care kind of who wins because

0:13:09.640 --> 0:13:12.000
<v Speaker 1>you get to work with them, all right, that's fair

0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:14.000
<v Speaker 1>to say. But I wonder do you think that there

0:13:14.040 --> 0:13:16.000
<v Speaker 1>will be because you do see some that might be

0:13:16.040 --> 0:13:19.360
<v Speaker 1>struggling or slowing down a little bit, that there'll be

0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:20.200
<v Speaker 1>some kind of shakeout.

0:13:21.440 --> 0:13:24.360
<v Speaker 2>There has to be, one would think, you know, And

0:13:24.840 --> 0:13:29.120
<v Speaker 2>certainly the conversations out there about M and A among

0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:32.520
<v Speaker 2>some of you in the bigger studios, right is an

0:13:32.559 --> 0:13:36.160
<v Speaker 2>idle speculation. So there'll be a right sizing in the ship,

0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:39.199
<v Speaker 2>I think, and the industry hopefully will be stronger for it.

0:13:39.840 --> 0:13:41.719
<v Speaker 1>So what's kind of interesting when you look at the

0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:43.800
<v Speaker 1>content and media world and you look out. You know,

0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:46.160
<v Speaker 1>we talked a little bit earlier about influencers and your

0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:48.600
<v Speaker 1>work with Glow Lab, and it is interesting in a

0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:51.720
<v Speaker 1>week where again, you know, Warren Buffett, you know, we

0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:54.200
<v Speaker 1>saw his stake in Olda beauty. We talked about it

0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:56.720
<v Speaker 1>through the pandemic and out of the pandemic that whether

0:13:56.760 --> 0:13:58.480
<v Speaker 1>it was Sepphor or some of the other names that

0:13:58.600 --> 0:14:02.160
<v Speaker 1>you know, people spend It's not just cosmetics, it's all

0:14:02.240 --> 0:14:05.679
<v Speaker 1>kinds of beauty and you know, skincare and so on

0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:08.920
<v Speaker 1>and so forth, that that spending kind of continues. You

0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:11.840
<v Speaker 1>guys also work with Rachel Ray. So chefs are something

0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:14.680
<v Speaker 1>that's certainly on your radar when you think about growth

0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:16.760
<v Speaker 1>areas for content. If you had to whittle it down

0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:19.440
<v Speaker 1>to one thing, what would it be. There's also AI, right,

0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:22.320
<v Speaker 1>so the creation of whatever that content will be.

0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:27.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, an AI is unstoppable, right, We take a positive

0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:32.440
<v Speaker 2>spin on it, certainly. But well, I think when you

0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:35.160
<v Speaker 2>take a step back and you think the world before

0:14:35.440 --> 0:14:39.400
<v Speaker 2>and after the rise of social media, you can make

0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:43.120
<v Speaker 2>a case that what it's done through the explosion of

0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:45.840
<v Speaker 2>what used to be. Remember when it was mommy bloggers,

0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:50.440
<v Speaker 2>and then it became influencers and now it's creators. You

0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:53.520
<v Speaker 2>could make an argument that's democratized the ability to launch

0:14:53.520 --> 0:14:58.120
<v Speaker 2>certain types of consumer products. Early in my career, you

0:14:58.160 --> 0:15:01.280
<v Speaker 2>would need you know, ten and millions of dollars of

0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:05.920
<v Speaker 2>paid media to just get awareness of the US consumer. Today,

0:15:05.960 --> 0:15:09.400
<v Speaker 2>you've got influencers launching their own skincare products and selling

0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:12.480
<v Speaker 2>the companies three years later for over three hundred million dollars,

0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:16.040
<v Speaker 2>as Susan Yara and Glow Lab did with Notarium to

0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:20.800
<v Speaker 2>Helf Beauty. So you know that that's unfathomable fifteen years ago,

0:15:20.840 --> 0:15:26.280
<v Speaker 2>ten years ago. So we see a lot of potential

0:15:27.040 --> 0:15:32.080
<v Speaker 2>using influencer marketing and pr earned media generally to launch

0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:37.040
<v Speaker 2>and content on those channels to to be able to

0:15:37.480 --> 0:15:40.720
<v Speaker 2>drive traffic. That's on the consumer products side, of course.

0:15:40.720 --> 0:15:42.840
<v Speaker 2>On on the pure content side, I think it raised

0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:44.520
<v Speaker 2>a lot of eyebrows in the last week or two.

0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:49.800
<v Speaker 2>You know that on television sets, YouTube gets more viewing

0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:54.160
<v Speaker 2>than Netflix, and and I think that that raised a

0:15:54.160 --> 0:15:57.600
<v Speaker 2>lot of awareness, you know, outside of our world just

0:15:57.680 --> 0:16:03.000
<v Speaker 2>how big social media is to to all demographics and not.

0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:06.880
<v Speaker 1>Just the Ya listen, right now you are on YouTube.

0:16:07.280 --> 0:16:08.760
<v Speaker 1>We don't get to see your face right now you're

0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:10.760
<v Speaker 1>on the phone, but if you were on Zoom and

0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:13.400
<v Speaker 1>so on and so forth. I mean, right now, smilcast

0:16:13.480 --> 0:16:16.320
<v Speaker 1>on radio, we're on YouTube, and we're on our streaming service,

0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:19.360
<v Speaker 1>and then earlier we're also on television, So it's just interesting,

0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:21.960
<v Speaker 1>like the different venues. I watch a lot of YouTube channels.

0:16:21.960 --> 0:16:25.200
<v Speaker 1>There's some interesting stuff, very niche programming. If you had

0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:27.760
<v Speaker 1>to pick one with our YouTube TikTok or some kind

0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:31.360
<v Speaker 1>of delivery service that you think is really going to

0:16:31.400 --> 0:16:33.160
<v Speaker 1>be or continue to be the most influential, and just

0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:37.720
<v Speaker 1>got about twenty seconds, what would it be YouTube? Hands down,

0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:40.000
<v Speaker 1>hands out, hands down.

0:16:40.400 --> 0:16:42.600
<v Speaker 2>It could do both short and long form and it's

0:16:42.640 --> 0:16:43.760
<v Speaker 2>already got the mass.

0:16:44.040 --> 0:16:47.000
<v Speaker 1>All right, great stuff as always, listen, Thank you so much.

0:16:47.120 --> 0:16:51.000
<v Speaker 1>Jillo doubt He's founder and chief executive officer of Dolphin Entertainment,

0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:53.880
<v Speaker 1>joining us on this Friday in Miami