Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg BusinessWeek with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebeck
Speaker 2: on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 1: Well, the world of entertainment and content back on our
Speaker 1: radar today. This as a bidding war for Paramount Global.
Speaker 1: Maybe in the making of Seagram air. Edgar Brofman Junior
Speaker 1: is said to be close to making an offer for
Speaker 1: Paramount Global, setting off that bidding war for the film
Speaker 1: and TV company that owns CBS and MTV. This is
Speaker 1: according to a Bloomberg exclusive. You can read all the
Speaker 1: deals just head to Bloomberg dot com or check it
Speaker 1: out on the Bloomberg terminal. Well, our next guest is
Speaker 1: definitely in the content and entertainment space. Let's get to
Speaker 1: Bill Odoud. He is the CEO of the microcaps sixteen
Speaker 1: million dollar market cap company. It's an entertainment, marketing and
Speaker 1: content production company and it is known as Dauphin Entertainment.
Speaker 1: He joins us from Miami. Bill, good to be talking
Speaker 1: with you. How are you.
Speaker 2: I'm very good, Thank you, Carol, thank you for having
Speaker 2: me on.
Speaker 1: Well, great to have you here. Let's start with kind
Speaker 1: of the nuts and bolts. If we may just reported
Speaker 1: earnings this week. Your release said record second quarter revenue,
Speaker 1: remind our world, the Bloomberg world, the investing world about
Speaker 1: what your company does and the latest update and the
Speaker 1: outlook for your business.
Speaker 2: Sure, well, thank you for that. Well, we do three
Speaker 2: things all in one. We started as a production company
Speaker 2: film and TV producers, and we still do that, having
Speaker 2: just released The Blue Angels with Imax this spring. Then
Speaker 2: we started assembling investing class PR and marketing, special events,
Speaker 2: influencer marketing companies around entertainment. And then we started investing
Speaker 2: in things that we could market, like consumer products. So
Speaker 2: we're very excited for that.
Speaker 1: All right, So talk to us about the quarter and
Speaker 1: the business, look back, look forward in terms of we
Speaker 1: mentioned the headline in terms of second quarter revenue, specifically
Speaker 1: in terms of a record that's according to you guys.
Speaker 1: Talked to us about a little bit of the business
Speaker 1: and where the growth is coming from, because you mentioned
Speaker 1: like kind of these three areas. So where's the growth been,
Speaker 1: where's it going?
Speaker 2: Sure? Yeah, Well we've been blessed with a lot of
Speaker 2: organic growth. The companies work together create synergy between you know,
Speaker 2: creating campaigns for motion pictures or consumer products that may
Speaker 2: want both PR and influencer marketing as an example, or
Speaker 2: event marketing with influencer, let's say. And in addition, we're
Speaker 2: growing going back into production. The Blue Angels was a
Speaker 2: big hit for us in partnership with Imax, and that
Speaker 2: was certainly part of the revenue increase as well.
Speaker 1: Well, it's interesting, well and that Imax partnership, how much
Speaker 1: more can you leverage out of it? Right, Like, this
Speaker 1: is something that sounds like it's got some legs and
Speaker 1: I'm curious where you take it.
Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, thank you. It's a multi year partnership. We're
Speaker 2: used to doing that with Dolphin. We were partners with
Speaker 2: Nickelodeon for years and years in making children's content and
Speaker 2: have had fifty to fifty partnerships in the past with
Speaker 2: Warners or others. So we hope to be doing documentaries
Speaker 2: with Imax for years to come. It's certainly a great
Speaker 2: partner to do documentaries with because you can do these
Speaker 2: big spectacle documentaries, dockbusters as we call them, that really
Speaker 2: deserve to be seen on the big screen, like The
Speaker 2: Blue Angels.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we you know the press release that you
Speaker 1: guys put out it talked about you know, debuting as
Speaker 1: number one on Prime video. Over the Memorial Day holiday,
Speaker 1: it grossed what over two million at the box office IMAX,
Speaker 1: and that included a top ten debut with about one
Speaker 1: point four million in its opening weekend. That what did
Speaker 1: you call it? Dockbusters?
Speaker 2: That's right?
Speaker 1: Yeah, So where else do you go with like do
Speaker 1: you just continue to do more of that? And how
Speaker 1: expensive is it to do and build out that content?
Speaker 2: Well, documentaries are less expensive than the bigger feature of course,
Speaker 2: so they typically range in the three to five million range,
Speaker 2: let's say for theatrical Obviously you can make them for
Speaker 2: less or more, and we do think there's an opening
Speaker 2: to do one or two of those a year. They
Speaker 2: certainly program well, there are gaps in the year where
Speaker 2: there wouldn't be studio content available or fresh studio content
Speaker 2: to put into IMAX. And also we think our partnership
Speaker 2: is expanding into live streaming as well. You know, we
Speaker 2: could do music specials, Broadway specials, comedy specials, you know,
Speaker 2: one night only type things that would really juice, we
Speaker 2: hope the box office, especially midweek. When do you.
Speaker 1: Start to do something like that or what's involved in
Speaker 1: getting into that area more aggressively?
Speaker 2: We hope to launch that in the first quarter of
Speaker 2: next year, and IMAX has already been doing some of
Speaker 2: that themselves, and it's a natural extension of our partnership
Speaker 2: to go into that content together.
Speaker 1: What's the challenge in all of this, because I do
Speaker 1: feel like, you know, Bill, I think it's safe to
Speaker 1: say we cover this a lot at Bloomberg that I mean,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of places to view content, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of content creators, but there's a lot of people
Speaker 1: vuying for that content. So what's the stuff that really
Speaker 1: you think moves the needle in terms of engaging with
Speaker 1: the consumer Because I know, I get to a point
Speaker 1: where I'm just overwhelmed and I'm done, and I pick
Speaker 1: up a book and read. But I just wonder, right,
Speaker 1: you've got to kind of read through a lot of stuff.
Speaker 2: Sure to. And I like reading too, so I understand completely.
Speaker 2: And I think a lot of people try, and you know,
Speaker 2: thread the needle by thinking about what would work best
Speaker 2: in which type of delivery. You know, when you talk
Speaker 2: something like an iMac system then and network, then you're
Speaker 2: talking you want that spectacle, something that warrants people coming
Speaker 2: out and spending the money, you know, on the smaller
Speaker 2: screen and the steep streaming wars. You're seeing a lot
Speaker 2: of people look for different types of content, and if
Speaker 2: you think about the last ten years, the rise of
Speaker 2: documentaries are true crime, especially on the small screen, as
Speaker 2: really exploded.
Speaker 1: What about you mentioned live sports, Broadway comedy other or
Speaker 1: you mentioned Broadway comedy. What about sports in terms of
Speaker 1: last streaming or is that just a too expensive, already crowded?
Speaker 1: The big boys, the big guys are in it.
Speaker 2: I think the live the certainly sporting events, it's probably crowded,
Speaker 2: and those rights only seem to be going up and
Speaker 2: up right. But we do like sports content generally quite
Speaker 2: a bit, and you're seeing a lot of opportunity this
Speaker 2: year around women's sports, and that's an area that we
Speaker 2: really like. We think female athletes have been underserved tremendously,
Speaker 2: and with our influencer marketing companies, we think we could
Speaker 2: expand and bring brand sponsorship deals and just generally income
Speaker 2: to female athletes from speaking engagements, etc.
Speaker 1: You mentioned the influencers, and I thought that was really interesting.
Speaker 1: I know you've got a a relationship with Glow Lab.
Speaker 1: You are the about the younger audience. I mean, first
Speaker 1: of all, a couple things. What is your target audience
Speaker 1: or you don't care, you want to go all over
Speaker 1: the all over the kind of age spectrum.
Speaker 2: I think with influencer you can you can broaden out.
Speaker 2: We started with the core, which you know, female twenty
Speaker 2: five to forty four, let's say beauty, wellness, fashion products.
Speaker 2: But the thing about influencer marketing, it's it's it's grown
Speaker 2: double digits year over year some years, I think triple
Speaker 2: digits simply because there is no one demo anymore. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And the marriage of influencer with sports is it was
Speaker 2: going to come anyway, but it's certainly accelerated three years
Speaker 2: ago with the Supreme Court ruling. You know, name image
Speaker 2: likeness for college athletes and now this generation are influencers.
Speaker 2: This generation of athletes, right, you could just see Simone
Speaker 2: Biles taking selfies at the Olympics or get ready with
Speaker 2: new videos at the Olympics. And you know that if
Speaker 2: you if you're talking athletes fifteen to twenty five, they're
Speaker 2: digital natives for sure.
Speaker 1: Well, when you think about the work with influencers, as
Speaker 1: you said, I mean you also want to be what
Speaker 1: creating the products that they're involved in or talk to
Speaker 1: us about how you kind of drill down into that relationship,
Speaker 1: which I would assume that opens up even another revenue
Speaker 1: stream for you guys, It shure.
Speaker 2: Does, thank you. Yeah, it's really marrying a couple of
Speaker 2: different aspects of our business. You know, we financed and
Speaker 2: produced television film for twenty years prior to going public.
Speaker 2: We're used to project finance, and then when you marry
Speaker 2: that with the rise of social media and influencer marketing,
Speaker 2: then it's really just applying project finance to consumer product.
Speaker 2: I mean, we could develop and bring to market consumer
Speaker 2: products where our form of marketing, especially in entertainment, will
Speaker 2: give us a better chance of success. So when you
Speaker 2: think about beauty cosmetics as an example, those are product
Speaker 2: where influencers and celebrities have long influence success and so
Speaker 2: there we think there are certain product categories like alcohol,
Speaker 2: where the marketing of the product is as important as
Speaker 2: the manufacturing and the distribution itself.
Speaker 1: But it'd be great if you get a piece of both,
Speaker 1: right going forward.
Speaker 2: That's right, that's right, hey, Bill.
Speaker 1: One thing I did want to ask you when we
Speaker 1: were talking a little bit of nuts and bolts in
Speaker 1: terms of the quarter, you are a microcap company. We
Speaker 1: don't on Bloomberg talk a lot to companies that are
Speaker 1: below a buck. And I am curious what you get
Speaker 1: from investors. Stocks down about sixty percent year to date.
Speaker 1: What do you hear from your investors and what are
Speaker 1: your aspirations? Is there something about you know? I understand
Speaker 1: sometimes we start small, we get bigger. What are your
Speaker 1: aspirations for this company? And what do you hear from
Speaker 1: your investors?
Speaker 2: Sure? Yeah, I know. Well, the microcap environment as a whole,
Speaker 2: as I'm sure you know Carol has been had a
Speaker 2: tough year. Yep. We've posted record quarterly revenue three quarters
Speaker 2: in a row so and positive adjusted operating income. So
Speaker 2: we're hopeful and confident that the will be rewarded in
Speaker 2: the market, especially as a microcup doing real revenue with
Speaker 2: real business.
Speaker 1: So is it just investors saying listen, we get it,
Speaker 1: it's the environment? Or what do they want to know
Speaker 1: about your business? In particular? What are the questions you
Speaker 1: get most from investors?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd say it's mostly about the environment. You know,
Speaker 2: numbers don't lie in terms of what we're doing in
Speaker 2: revenue and adjusted operating income, and we're beating our own projections,
Speaker 2: including the analyst projections out there. So there's there's a
Speaker 2: sense of frustration with some that you know, they just
Speaker 2: wish that, you know, we weren't being lumped in with
Speaker 2: some of the others, But you know, we just have
Speaker 2: to stay the course. I mean, a micro cap that's
Speaker 2: doing fifty million revenue and a sixteen million dollar market cup,
Speaker 2: you'd like to believe that you're about to pop.
Speaker 1: Back when you look at the environment, and I think
Speaker 1: it's you know, Bill, it's an interesting one. We're very
Speaker 1: folkocused on, you know, what's going on in terms of
Speaker 1: FED policy, what's going on in terms of economic data.
Speaker 1: We talked a lot by the end of the week
Speaker 1: about a soft landing, and it looks like things are,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of working out fairly well. Not all
Speaker 1: Americans certainly feel that. We talk a lot about the
Speaker 1: differences between the top and the bottom in terms of
Speaker 1: the economic strata. Having said that, when you look at
Speaker 1: the environment, you're doing deals, you're doing different things. How
Speaker 1: do you describe the US economy right now?
Speaker 2: Well, we're hopeful for the for the rate coaches. I
Speaker 2: think like a lot of people will free up cash
Speaker 2: and discretionary investment. Into the microcap world, small cap world generally, right.
Speaker 2: I think you hear a lot of people talk about that.
Speaker 2: We're not as susceptible to some other companies in terms
Speaker 2: of the interest rates. We've fixed ours in commercial paper already,
Speaker 2: so we feel good about our position. But certainly lower
Speaker 2: interest rates or lower rakes use made would certainly benefit
Speaker 2: the microcap world for sure.
Speaker 1: All right, Yeah, No, we talked about that actually earlier
Speaker 1: in terms of small caps and the importance of economic
Speaker 1: growth as well as in terms of the interest rate environment, bigger,
Speaker 1: broader picture. We've spent a lot of time talking about
Speaker 1: kind of what happens to some of the big media players.
Speaker 1: We talk about streaming so much. You are in the
Speaker 1: content business. What do you make of all of what's
Speaker 1: going on in the streaming world. It's a lot of
Speaker 1: competition for all of our eyeballs, and there are obviously
Speaker 1: some very clear winners and some that are having a
Speaker 1: tougher time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And we're blessed where our film and television PR
Speaker 2: firm forty two West, works with almost every major streamer
Speaker 2: out there, and we promote shows on so many different platforms,
Speaker 2: from Netflix to Amazon to Hulu and paramount plus, etc.
Speaker 2: So we see a lot of them contracting some in
Speaker 2: terms of investment, as I'm sure you've talked about quite
Speaker 2: a bit. But the sheer volume of programming the last
Speaker 2: few years has been overwhelming to a lot of consumers,
Speaker 2: I think, And probably this is for the best.
Speaker 1: And so you don't care kind of who wins because
Speaker 1: you get to work with them, all right, that's fair
Speaker 1: to say. But I wonder do you think that there
Speaker 1: will be because you do see some that might be
Speaker 1: struggling or slowing down a little bit, that there'll be
Speaker 1: some kind of shakeout.
Speaker 2: There has to be, one would think, you know, And
Speaker 2: certainly the conversations out there about M and A among
Speaker 2: some of you in the bigger studios, right is an
Speaker 2: idle speculation. So there'll be a right sizing in the ship,
Speaker 2: I think, and the industry hopefully will be stronger for it.
Speaker 1: So what's kind of interesting when you look at the
Speaker 1: content and media world and you look out. You know,
Speaker 1: we talked a little bit earlier about influencers and your
Speaker 1: work with Glow Lab, and it is interesting in a
Speaker 1: week where again, you know, Warren Buffett, you know, we
Speaker 1: saw his stake in Olda beauty. We talked about it
Speaker 1: through the pandemic and out of the pandemic that whether
Speaker 1: it was Sepphor or some of the other names that
Speaker 1: you know, people spend It's not just cosmetics, it's all
Speaker 1: kinds of beauty and you know, skincare and so on
Speaker 1: and so forth, that that spending kind of continues. You
Speaker 1: guys also work with Rachel Ray. So chefs are something
Speaker 1: that's certainly on your radar when you think about growth
Speaker 1: areas for content. If you had to whittle it down
Speaker 1: to one thing, what would it be. There's also AI, right,
Speaker 1: so the creation of whatever that content will be.
Speaker 2: Yeah, an AI is unstoppable, right, We take a positive
Speaker 2: spin on it, certainly. But well, I think when you
Speaker 2: take a step back and you think the world before
Speaker 2: and after the rise of social media, you can make
Speaker 2: a case that what it's done through the explosion of
Speaker 2: what used to be. Remember when it was mommy bloggers,
Speaker 2: and then it became influencers and now it's creators. You
Speaker 2: could make an argument that's democratized the ability to launch
Speaker 2: certain types of consumer products. Early in my career, you
Speaker 2: would need you know, ten and millions of dollars of
Speaker 2: paid media to just get awareness of the US consumer. Today,
Speaker 2: you've got influencers launching their own skincare products and selling
Speaker 2: the companies three years later for over three hundred million dollars,
Speaker 2: as Susan Yara and Glow Lab did with Notarium to
Speaker 2: Helf Beauty. So you know that that's unfathomable fifteen years ago,
Speaker 2: ten years ago. So we see a lot of potential
Speaker 2: using influencer marketing and pr earned media generally to launch
Speaker 2: and content on those channels to to be able to
Speaker 2: drive traffic. That's on the consumer products side, of course.
Speaker 2: On on the pure content side, I think it raised
Speaker 2: a lot of eyebrows in the last week or two.
Speaker 2: You know that on television sets, YouTube gets more viewing
Speaker 2: than Netflix, and and I think that that raised a
Speaker 2: lot of awareness, you know, outside of our world just
Speaker 2: how big social media is to to all demographics and not.
Speaker 1: Just the Ya listen, right now you are on YouTube.
Speaker 1: We don't get to see your face right now you're
Speaker 1: on the phone, but if you were on Zoom and
Speaker 1: so on and so forth. I mean, right now, smilcast
Speaker 1: on radio, we're on YouTube, and we're on our streaming service,
Speaker 1: and then earlier we're also on television, So it's just interesting,
Speaker 1: like the different venues. I watch a lot of YouTube channels.
Speaker 1: There's some interesting stuff, very niche programming. If you had
Speaker 1: to pick one with our YouTube TikTok or some kind
Speaker 1: of delivery service that you think is really going to
Speaker 1: be or continue to be the most influential, and just
Speaker 1: got about twenty seconds, what would it be YouTube? Hands down,
Speaker 1: hands out, hands down.
Speaker 2: It could do both short and long form and it's
Speaker 2: already got the mass.
Speaker 1: All right, great stuff as always, listen, Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Jillo doubt He's founder and chief executive officer of Dolphin Entertainment,
Speaker 1: joining us on this Friday in Miami