Speaker 1: From Bloomberg News and iHeartRadio. It's the Big Take. I'm
Speaker 1: West Kasova. Today is Rayleigh's pour into the streets to
Speaker 1: protest the government. Israel's Prime Minister of Benjamin Netan Yahoo,
Speaker 1: is trying to push through major changes to the way
Speaker 1: the country is governed, taking some power away from the
Speaker 1: courts and putting it into the hands of politicians in
Speaker 1: the Cannesse at Israel's parliament. The move has infuriated large
Speaker 1: portions of Israel's population, not just political opponents, but business
Speaker 1: leaders and academics. Even soldiers have been taking part in
Speaker 1: mass protests for more than two months. They accuse far
Speaker 1: right and ultra orthodox parties of trying to weaken the
Speaker 1: checks and balances between the branches of government in an
Speaker 1: effort to introduce a semi religious autocracy. Israel has the
Speaker 1: most far rights government in its history. The protesters warned
Speaker 1: the policies will undermine the business friendly climate that's driven
Speaker 1: strong economic growth and shake Israel's support from the US
Speaker 1: and Europe as a stable democracy in a volatile region
Speaker 1: of the world. Bloomberg's Israel bureau chief Ethan Bronner has
Speaker 1: been covering this unfolding crisis, and he joins me now
Speaker 1: from Tel Aviv to explain what's happening and where it
Speaker 1: goes from here. Ethan, can you start by describing the
Speaker 1: changes Prime Minister Netanyah who wants to put through that
Speaker 1: are causing these huge protests around the country. The truth
Speaker 1: is that there's a whole bunch of things all related
Speaker 1: to the role of the Supreme Court of Judiciary in
Speaker 1: this country. Nittagyah who won in November and then he
Speaker 1: put together a government which is unprecedented in this country
Speaker 1: in terms of it's being very right wing and very
Speaker 1: religious and very religiously nationalist, and then came to the
Speaker 1: country and the Knesset and said, Okay, here are the
Speaker 1: things we're going to do. We're going to change the
Speaker 1: way we select the judges. We're going to end the
Speaker 1: ability of the Supreme Court to overturn something unless all
Speaker 1: fifteen justices agree, and if they agree, we can still
Speaker 1: overturn it with a simple vote of the Knesset. So
Speaker 1: it was a quart of a whole set of things
Speaker 1: that as people looked at it felt like this is
Speaker 1: going to really remove any checks and balance system that
Speaker 1: we have in this country. Because one more point to make,
Speaker 1: and that is that in the United States we have
Speaker 1: the executive and then we have the legislative. In this country,
Speaker 1: they're really the same because in order to rule, to
Speaker 1: become prime minister, you have to have a majority in
Speaker 1: the Knesset. So Nitzagyah, who of course has what he
Speaker 1: needs for a government, he has sixty four votes. And
Speaker 1: they have parliamentary discipline in this system, so if a
Speaker 1: vote comes, they have to vote or the government falls.
Speaker 1: And so all those things together are what are freaking
Speaker 1: out a lot of people here. You talked about some
Speaker 1: of the right wing parties, the ultra orthodox parties. Can
Speaker 1: you describe some of the parties in this coalition and
Speaker 1: what they want? Well, yes, I mean you do have
Speaker 1: a couple of parties that have been joined together in
Speaker 1: a coalition called Jewish Power, and their leaders are settlers.
Speaker 1: They live in settlements in the West Bank. They believe
Speaker 1: that a Palestinian state is complete anathema. They believe also
Speaker 1: that God, of course gave this land to the Jews,
Speaker 1: and that their settlement of it and the spread of
Speaker 1: religious theocratic rule is in fact what God wants from them.
Speaker 1: And so the more national religious type of rule they have,
Speaker 1: the better they will be able to fulfill the desk
Speaker 1: that has been handed to them. So these are very
Speaker 1: unpragmatic kind of people who have learned but one foot
Speaker 1: in front of the other and to win, and they've
Speaker 1: gotten much further in this country than anybody imagined. Their parties,
Speaker 1: by the way, were outlawed by the Supreme Court forty
Speaker 1: years ago and then repermitted later into the political spectrum.
Speaker 1: So these are very very marginal voices that are now
Speaker 1: in positions of enormous power, and that is what is
Speaker 1: really driving these demonstrations anything. What is the complaint that
Speaker 1: these far right parties have with the courts? In essence,
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court in this country about thirty years ago announced,
Speaker 1: based on a basic law that had been passed to
Speaker 1: human dignity, that it was from then on going to
Speaker 1: be judging laws on their constitutionality based on a set
Speaker 1: of criteria that they thought was appropriate. We're familiar with
Speaker 1: this in the United States, of course as well, but
Speaker 1: in Israel there is no constitution, so the idea of
Speaker 1: a law being unconstitutional is slightly complicated. But they said,
Speaker 1: we'll call these basic laws the essence of our constitution.
Speaker 1: So even instead of a constitution, there are these thirteen
Speaker 1: basic laws. What are they? What do they pertain to?
Speaker 1: So some of them are just the way the government
Speaker 1: is organized, the executive and legislative, the judicial. There are
Speaker 1: several that have referred to equality, to equal treatment, to
Speaker 1: human dignity, and those are the ones that have caused
Speaker 1: a lot of problems for the right, so that, for example,
Speaker 1: when there was an attempt to prevent the ultra Orthodox
Speaker 1: from being forced to join the army, the Supreme Court said, well,
Speaker 1: that is unequal, that violates our equality claws. When there's
Speaker 1: been a problem in this country, as there is in
Speaker 1: many countries, wealthy countries where refugees have come in. These
Speaker 1: are African refugees in Israel, and the government has been
Speaker 1: trying to prevent them by being pretty tough with them
Speaker 1: and putting them in prison camps for a while, and
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court said this violates human dignity. So it's
Speaker 1: sort of overturned some of those policies as well. There
Speaker 1: are questions, for example, of in the West Bank and
Speaker 1: the occupied West Bank, of whether settlements can be built
Speaker 1: on land that is known to be personally owned by Palestinians.
Speaker 1: The Supreme Court said you can't. So there's been a
Speaker 1: lot of times like that where the agenda of the right,
Speaker 1: which is to be tough about the border, to spread settlements,
Speaker 1: to make it possible for the ultra Orthodox not to
Speaker 1: serve in the military, all of these things have they've
Speaker 1: gotten in the way, if you like. So from the
Speaker 1: point of view of the moderates or the liberals or
Speaker 1: the left, this is the only way that minorities, minority rights,
Speaker 1: and human individual civil rights will be protected, because if
Speaker 1: you leave it up to the majority, there is what
Speaker 1: we know in the law is known as the tyranny
Speaker 1: of the majority. So that's the issue. So the Court
Speaker 1: has been in doing that. Now there are several issues
Speaker 1: that the right and people who voted for Antonia who
Speaker 1: have been angry about for a long time. One is
Speaker 1: that they feel that the selection of judges is a
Speaker 1: kind of self selection, which is to say, unlike in
Speaker 1: the United States, where the president nominates in the Senate confirms,
Speaker 1: in Israel there's a committee of nine people, and five
Speaker 1: of those nine are members of the bar, including three
Speaker 1: members of the Supreme Court, and the rest are politicians.
Speaker 1: And so there has been a feeling that the judges
Speaker 1: can sort of choose their fellows as they move forward,
Speaker 1: and as the government's turn to the right, they still
Speaker 1: can prevent the governments from putting right wingers or conservatives in,
Speaker 1: so there's a selection process. There's the question of exactly
Speaker 1: under what circumstances the Supreme Court can overturn a law
Speaker 1: passed by the Kinesse at the Parliament. There's a question
Speaker 1: of also the role of legal advisors in each ministry.
Speaker 1: So there's a whole bunch of things in which it
Speaker 1: is felt by the right the legal establishment has kind
Speaker 1: of taken over a lot of politically sensitive issues through
Speaker 1: the law because they can't win at the ballot box
Speaker 1: even Can you describe why this is happening now? The
Speaker 1: complaints that you're describing about the thirteen Basic Laws, The
Speaker 1: ultra orthodox, the far right of the country has had
Speaker 1: these complaints for years. Why is it coming to the
Speaker 1: four right now. The simple answer is that the extreme
Speaker 1: right parties and the ultra religious parties together are for
Speaker 1: the first time in the governing coalition, so that Nintenyaho
Speaker 1: we think of as a conservative, it is on the
Speaker 1: left flank of his own government. And this is because
Speaker 1: there have been four indecisive elections in the last few years,
Speaker 1: and this election, this was the only way that he
Speaker 1: could form a stable government, stable meeting a majority of
Speaker 1: sixty one or more of the one hundred and twenty
Speaker 1: seats in the Knesset. Now there's an additional factor here,
Speaker 1: which is the Natanyahu himself has been indicted for a
Speaker 1: series of corruption charges, and that has added to the
Speaker 1: left and the Center's desire not to enter a coalition
Speaker 1: with him. He is being accused of also going after
Speaker 1: the legal system because he had grown bitter about the
Speaker 1: charges against him. He, by the way, believes that the
Speaker 1: charges against him are political that in a certain way,
Speaker 1: just an analogy would be in the United States with
Speaker 1: Donald Trump. That's the sense that you couldn't win an election,
Speaker 1: so you would set the legal establishment after him and
Speaker 1: his companies and so forth. I mean not saying that
Speaker 1: that is what happened, but that is the view of
Speaker 1: many on the right in the United States. So like
Speaker 1: that Natanya whose argument was, you are coming after me
Speaker 1: on fake charges because you can't win an election against me.
Speaker 1: And in fact, he is the longest serving prime minister
Speaker 1: seven I think government and twenty years so it's a
Speaker 1: very long time, you think. Can you describe how the
Speaker 1: system works in Israel where a prime minister is elected
Speaker 1: but then has to form a government among other parties
Speaker 1: if his own party doesn't have a majority. Yes, So
Speaker 1: in the system in this country, there isn't a separate
Speaker 1: election for the chief of government for what's the prime
Speaker 1: minister here? That person is whoever is leading the party
Speaker 1: with the most seats in the Knesset and then forms
Speaker 1: a coalition because you have to have more than sixty
Speaker 1: You have to have a majority of one hundred and
Speaker 1: twenty to rule. So this has been true for a
Speaker 1: long time. One of the problems is that the system
Speaker 1: allows small parties to get past the threshold. You only
Speaker 1: need a certain number of votes to be able to
Speaker 1: have a seat, so you would typically have five or
Speaker 1: six parties in a ruling coalition. And that's what you
Speaker 1: have here. And as I say, because the center and
Speaker 1: the left in this particular election, as said, we're not
Speaker 1: going to sit with the Tanyaho. Then he turned to
Speaker 1: the far right. So people are very upset. It's almost
Speaker 1: like the proud Boys have been brought into government. For
Speaker 1: the United States, that's the sense people have, and so
Speaker 1: when you look at who is in power and then
Speaker 1: their desire to take down the checks and balance of
Speaker 1: the court system, suddenly people are in deep alarm in
Speaker 1: this country about what this could mean for the democratic system.
Speaker 1: And that's how we get to these demonstrations that we've
Speaker 1: been seeing. And so some of these far right smaller
Speaker 1: parties Net and Yah, who made a coalition with they
Speaker 1: have the power to crash the government if he doesn't
Speaker 1: go along, because if they pull out, then suddenly the
Speaker 1: government is no longer viable. That's right. And so in
Speaker 1: some ways he's between a rock and a hard place
Speaker 1: in the sense that he even if he would like
Speaker 1: to compromise on the digital question, and there's good reason
Speaker 1: to think that he would, he would lose his governing coalition.
Speaker 1: So he's not done that yet. You mentioned the charges
Speaker 1: against net and Yahoo. Is there a feeling that net
Speaker 1: and Yahoo is also trying to gain sway over the
Speaker 1: judiciary in order to prevent them from furthering charges against him.
Speaker 1: This is certainly the accusation that you hear all the
Speaker 1: time here. It's difficult to assess exactly how accurate it is.
Speaker 1: I would say the way in which the Prime Minister
Speaker 1: could benefit from these changes or re rather slow in
Speaker 1: terms of the turnover on the bench and so on.
Speaker 1: It's not so much that he thinks it will keep
Speaker 1: him out of jail, as that he is very angry
Speaker 1: at the legal establishment for what he believes to be
Speaker 1: a politicized case against him. My conversation with Ethan continues
Speaker 1: after the break. This feeling that acracy in Israel is
Speaker 1: under threat if the kinetic can simply overrule the courts
Speaker 1: has caused enormous protests throughout Israel. And as you write,
Speaker 1: it's not the usual people you would think who would
Speaker 1: be pouring out into the streets to protest. So we
Speaker 1: have a fascinating situation ten weeks in a row of
Speaker 1: at least once a week and usually twice a week,
Speaker 1: tens of thousands. In some cases there have been several
Speaker 1: hundred thousand people in the streets, and they're led by
Speaker 1: the kind of upper middle classes, professional classes, hedge fund managers, bankers,
Speaker 1: you know, all the major banks are basically letting their
Speaker 1: employees out of work to go to these protests. We
Speaker 1: have CEOs and chairmen out on the street holding Israeli flags.
Speaker 1: There is a sense that these people feel who've been saying,
Speaker 1: you know, we've been doing our business of building companies.
Speaker 1: We've had a sort of implicit deal with the government.
Speaker 1: You take care of stuff and we'll build the economy.
Speaker 1: And suddenly they feel that they've allowed too much to
Speaker 1: go on and if they don't step forward now, the
Speaker 1: society that they want to live in will disappear. And
Speaker 1: that bargain has been pretty good for Israel because has
Speaker 1: become a powerful economy, a leader in tech, in in
Speaker 1: other industries. If you look at gross domestic product per
Speaker 1: capita twenty or thirty years ago, it was a fraction
Speaker 1: of what it is today. The Israeli economy is really
Speaker 1: an extraordinary success story, particularly the last twenty years, in
Speaker 1: which has been driven by tech and driven by the
Speaker 1: people who are on the streets. So there's another factor
Speaker 1: here we haven't really talked about, which is that on
Speaker 1: the right you also have the ultra orthodox parties, in
Speaker 1: which you have many many men who basically study for
Speaker 1: a living, have six seven, eight children and are not
Speaker 1: productive in the typical capitalistic way we think of, and
Speaker 1: the economy is being carried by the people who are
Speaker 1: in the streets and who feel that the people who
Speaker 1: are studying and not in the streets in fact don't
Speaker 1: understand how modern society works, and they're going to allow
Speaker 1: a takeover of the court system in order to create
Speaker 1: what they're afraid it will be a kind of theocracy,
Speaker 1: and which the Torah studiers may not actually object to.
Speaker 1: Some of the people who are out in the street
Speaker 1: obviously they're protesting because they feel a sort of patriotic
Speaker 1: sense that the country is slipping through their fingers. But
Speaker 1: it's also bad for business that businesses are worried about
Speaker 1: what's going to happen for the ability to keep Israel
Speaker 1: as a driver of economic growth. That is correct. There
Speaker 1: is a deep, deep concern that the conditions for business,
Speaker 1: which have been very very pro market, very helpful for
Speaker 1: the kind of technological advance and innovation that has been
Speaker 1: going on here, will disappear if the legal system is
Speaker 1: a slave to the political system. Right, if you don't
Speaker 1: have kind of courts that you can count on to
Speaker 1: make the sorts of reasonable decisions that the modern market
Speaker 1: system requires, that is scaring people. And the truth is
Speaker 1: it's two components. One is the legal system will not
Speaker 1: be reliable. The other is the people who are typically
Speaker 1: innovative today will not want to live here, and so
Speaker 1: the combination could really do terrible things to the economy.
Speaker 1: And in these weeks of protest, there has been you know,
Speaker 1: it's been very difficult to assess the amount, but there's
Speaker 1: unquestionably been money not coming in and money leaving out
Speaker 1: of concern that the reliability of the Israeli's system is
Speaker 1: under question. Even you went out into the protests and
Speaker 1: tell Aviv, what were they like? What did you hear
Speaker 1: when you were talking to people? It is really and
Speaker 1: I've been visiting this country for many, many years, whilst
Speaker 1: I've really never seen this level of anxiety and of
Speaker 1: a kind of spiritual patriotism that you found on this streets.
Speaker 1: For one thing, the demonstrations in the heart of Tel
Speaker 1: Aviv occur in the high Tower part of the city,
Speaker 1: So you have these massive towers, all a result of
Speaker 1: the money that's come in over the last twenty or
Speaker 1: thirty years. You have the Defense Ministry within sight. You
Speaker 1: have all of these middle aged people carrying Israeli flags
Speaker 1: and kind of singing Israeli songs. The Declaration of Independence
Speaker 1: as it was read by the founding Prime Minister David
Speaker 1: Ben Gurion is heard in that Crackley Radio recording of
Speaker 1: the original nineteen forty eight one has been broadcast in
Speaker 1: various places. You will be added to the sides of
Speaker 1: buildings that are owned by high tech companies have the
Speaker 1: words of the Declaration of Independence put up on them.
Speaker 1: Big electronic billboards that advertise McDonald's and Coke are also
Speaker 1: saying we're here for democracy. And the other thing was
Speaker 1: happening is because it's been going on regularly for at
Speaker 1: the same time every week, you have almost like a
Speaker 1: farmer's market feeling. The doctors are there, the lawyers are
Speaker 1: the psychologists are there. They all have their kind of
Speaker 1: signs and their slogans, and there is a little bit
Speaker 1: of a block party feeling to it as well. You know,
Speaker 1: these are all people who kind of know each other.
Speaker 1: I have to say that in the socio ethnic breakdown
Speaker 1: of Israel, it is heavily Ashkenazi, which is to say,
Speaker 1: Whitish Jews of European origin, not so much Middle Eastern,
Speaker 1: very few Arabs. So in that sense, you know, that's
Speaker 1: one of the ways in which the other side of
Speaker 1: this debate can say, look, they're self dealing. They're protecting themselves.
Speaker 1: These are the sort of old, rich, white Ashkenazim who
Speaker 1: want to hold onto their power and their money. But
Speaker 1: I found an enormous amount of sincere concern. I did
Speaker 1: go out one night with a man who co founded
Speaker 1: one of the largest investment companies in the country, are
Speaker 1: called Kumer Capital. His name is Arras Shahar, He's fifty
Speaker 1: nine years old, and he said to me, look, I've
Speaker 1: never been politically involved. I thought I had a deal.
Speaker 1: You keep the country safe, I'll build an innovation economy.
Speaker 1: And instead I realized that's slipping out from under me.
Speaker 1: I am here to say we're going to take this
Speaker 1: all the way. And now the question of court is
Speaker 1: what does it mean Natania, who does have a majority
Speaker 1: in the government, what can this side accomplish. So now
Speaker 1: I can say to you that there is talk led
Speaker 1: largely by the President of Israel. This is Isaac Hertzog,
Speaker 1: who has relatively symbolic role, it's not a role of
Speaker 1: real power, who's trying to find common ground to say, Look,
Speaker 1: I'm open to the idea that there needs to be changed.
Speaker 1: This change is too radical and too sudden. Let's find
Speaker 1: ways to move this forward in a reasonable way. But
Speaker 1: another thing that's happening, and Shahar and people around him
Speaker 1: felt this way, is that Israel needs to put into
Speaker 1: a constitution certain rights that will be inviolable ball so
Speaker 1: that if in fact, the ultra Orthodox community grows and
Speaker 1: becomes a third of the population in fifty years, which
Speaker 1: is the prediction, that it will not be possible for
Speaker 1: them to vote in a kind of tyranny of the
Speaker 1: majority way for a theocratic state. So that's ultimately their goal,
Speaker 1: and I don't know if it's accomplishable. You spoke to Schachar,
Speaker 1: and let's listen to a little bit of what he
Speaker 1: had to say. So the traditional reform is a whitewashed
Speaker 1: term for really turning Israel into an autocracy. The courts
Speaker 1: are actually being dismantled in this move, and the government
Speaker 1: gets complete power on legislation without the court supervision and oversight.
Speaker 1: So this is the playbook of turning a democracy into authocracy. No,
Speaker 1: it's very rare to see tech people, venture capitalists go
Speaker 1: out of the street to demonstrate, but we feel that
Speaker 1: we're fighting for our homeland, we're fighting for our country,
Speaker 1: and we've taken a position a very clear one that
Speaker 1: we will not let Israel become a non democracy. So
Speaker 1: we are fighting for a liberal democratic Israel. There could
Speaker 1: be no other Israel where things go from here when
Speaker 1: we come back Ethan. Another big thing that's happening here
Speaker 1: is that the military, which is one of the core
Speaker 1: cultural institutions of Israel, is also in turmoil over this,
Speaker 1: and some people are saying they'll refuse to serve. The
Speaker 1: military is a central institution in this country, apart from
Speaker 1: the ultra Orthodox and Arabs. There is compulsory service, so
Speaker 1: about fifty sixty seventy percent of people serve in it,
Speaker 1: and it's the longest compulsory service of any demand Christian
Speaker 1: in the world, three years for men. One of the
Speaker 1: things that happens because it's compulsory military service here, the
Speaker 1: military watches kids in high school and anyone who shows
Speaker 1: quantitative promise is pulled aside, and if he's really good,
Speaker 1: and I say he could be here or she really good,
Speaker 1: they will be sent into units that specialize in cyber
Speaker 1: and high tech and that sort of thing, and then
Speaker 1: they are a central part of what's the intelligence unit
Speaker 1: in the Israeli militaries, known as Unit eighty two hundred
Speaker 1: is the largest in the military today. And so they
Speaker 1: form bonds, professional bonds in the military, and then when
Speaker 1: they lead, they form startups based on the knowledge and
Speaker 1: the sense of the establishment here. Sometimes when I was
Speaker 1: out on the street, I thought of the Vietnam protests
Speaker 1: in the United States in the late sixties, And the
Speaker 1: difference is really quite important, because, yes, these are educated,
Speaker 1: relatively well off people in the streets complaining about a
Speaker 1: conservative government's policy. But in this case, it is not
Speaker 1: kids who don't want to go to the military. It's
Speaker 1: people who've spent their lives in the military. So the establishment,
Speaker 1: the absolute establishment of what has made this wealthy, advanced
Speaker 1: country is in open revolt against a kind of populous
Speaker 1: set of proposals, and it's fascinating Ethan. All of this
Speaker 1: is of course also happening against the ongoing backdrop of
Speaker 1: conflict between Israel and the Palestinians. Recently we've seen another
Speaker 1: uptick in violence. How is all of this playing into
Speaker 1: that they are intimately linked For a bunch of reasons.
Speaker 1: You made reference to the fact that there are people
Speaker 1: in the military who are saying, if these changes of
Speaker 1: the judiciary go through, they might not actually respond to
Speaker 1: the call up for service. Those are reservists, and if
Speaker 1: as the problems get worse in the West Bank, they
Speaker 1: were to suddenly not show up, that would certainly cause
Speaker 1: an enormous alarm in this country. But I mean, the
Speaker 1: other thing is that one of the great divides in
Speaker 1: this country politically is what should happen in the occupied
Speaker 1: West Bank in East Jerusalem, with the left saying it
Speaker 1: needs to be the basis for a Palestinian state and
Speaker 1: the right largely saying there should not be a Palestinian state.
Speaker 1: We need to absorb this land, and that's our historic
Speaker 1: Jewish homeland, biblical homeland, and that's where we want to
Speaker 1: continue to build our country. So the conflict with the
Speaker 1: Palestinians touches on this issue at every point. Do you
Speaker 1: think that pressure being brought to bear by the US
Speaker 1: government or by Western European governments can actually force netya
Speaker 1: who's hand? You know, the question of whether pressure works
Speaker 1: is one of the eternal questions of the human condition.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I do believe that, you know, one
Speaker 1: of the things that has been the case for the
Speaker 1: last twenty years is that a certain kind of Western
Speaker 1: government and Western thinker has been critical of Israel and
Speaker 1: the Natanya who governments and those around him have learned
Speaker 1: to sort of say, listen, those guys, the hell with them.
Speaker 1: They don't care about us anyway. But one of the
Speaker 1: things that is so striking about these last two or
Speaker 1: three months is that people who have stood by Israel,
Speaker 1: the Likud party, Natanya who in the past, are standing
Speaker 1: up and saying no, no, no, this is the wrong
Speaker 1: way to go. There are a whole series also of
Speaker 1: other middle of the road politically Jewish thinkers in the
Speaker 1: United States and elsewhere who are vociferously calling for this
Speaker 1: to stop. So I feel like it's another quality of objection.
Speaker 1: Although again, where does it go. We don't really know.
Speaker 1: Israel status as a democracy in a region which is
Speaker 1: very volatile has given it a lot of support, especially
Speaker 1: from the US and also Western Europe. Does this threaten
Speaker 1: to shake that relationship. Israel is pretty dependent on support
Speaker 1: from the West. You know, The truth is that I
Speaker 1: think it's a little less dependent than it once was.
Speaker 1: It is a very very healthy economy with an extremely
Speaker 1: powerful military. But that said, it values enormously a sense
Speaker 1: that it is a member of the kind of club
Speaker 1: of liberal democracies essentially in the West, and it is
Speaker 1: opposing a challenge to those relationships. The leaders of France, Britain, Germany,
Speaker 1: and the United States have all said allowed that they
Speaker 1: are concerned about these tradicial changes, that an independent judiciary
Speaker 1: is core to a democratic system, and the American Jewish community,
Speaker 1: which has been very important to Israel's existence and survival
Speaker 1: over the years, is alarmed about it as well. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's complicated because they're also alarmed about some of the
Speaker 1: members of the government that Nigenia who have brought in,
Speaker 1: who have a history of racist state So, yes, it's
Speaker 1: all up in the air. The sort of people who
Speaker 1: might read Bloomberg in Israel are deeply depressed right now.
Speaker 1: In Israel. They feel that their country is slipping from
Speaker 1: their hands. Although there is also the sense that they
Speaker 1: are going to stand up and prevent this from happening,
Speaker 1: they're not sure they can win. Well, that raises the
Speaker 1: question can they win If net and Yah, who has
Speaker 1: a coalition government, he has the votes to pass pretty
Speaker 1: much anything that he wants, how can this be stopped?
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't really think anyone knows exactly what
Speaker 1: that answer would be. I think the feeling is that
Speaker 1: if the pressure is so intense, if it really were
Speaker 1: clear that money, or if we think of the SVB
Speaker 1: bank run, that if we think of that as kind
Speaker 1: of a model that could happen here, which is there's
Speaker 1: concern you never know and then suddenly everybody wants to
Speaker 1: pull out that if there were a run, if you
Speaker 1: like on the Bank of Israel, and enough reservists said,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not going to do it, that somehow
Speaker 1: it would That's somehow those are around Natanya who would say, listen,
Speaker 1: this needs to stop. We need to negotiate. So that
Speaker 1: is I think the only scenario I can imagine in
Speaker 1: which he loses, because I don't think any member of
Speaker 1: his coalition is going to peel away to the center
Speaker 1: of the loft at the moment. But it's an enormous mystery.
Speaker 1: How can this go anyway except the way he wants
Speaker 1: it to go? Ethan Browner, thanks for talking with me today.
Speaker 1: Been a pleasure, West, Thank you thanks for listening to
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