Speaker 1: Hi, Steve Fishman here, creator of The Burden, as well
Speaker 1: as the number one true crime podcast, My Friend The
Speaker 1: Serial Killer. For those of you who liked The Burden,
Speaker 1: I have good news. Season two starts August seventh. It's
Speaker 1: a series called The Burden Empire on Blood and it's
Speaker 1: the director's cut of the true crime classic Empire on Blood,
Speaker 1: which reached number one on the charts when it debuted
Speaker 1: half a dozen years ago. Then the fat cat funders
Speaker 1: abandon it. I wrangled it back and now I'm thrilled
Speaker 1: to share this story of a man who fought the
Speaker 1: law for two decades, fought against the Bronx's top homicide
Speaker 1: prosecutor and a detective sometimes known as the Luis Scarcela
Speaker 1: of the Bronx. It's all coming to you August seventh.
Speaker 1: Wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2: Previously on The Burden, they have.
Speaker 3: No concept of what it was like back then, two
Speaker 3: hundred murders a year in the city.
Speaker 4: Violence was happening everywhere.
Speaker 1: We're here in the belly of the Beast. We're here
Speaker 1: doing what we gotta do, and we did it.
Speaker 3: Everybody was in on it. The cops were in on it,
Speaker 3: and the witnesses were in on it all. Hell was
Speaker 3: breaking loose.
Speaker 5: Says to me, kid, get your head out your ass.
Speaker 4: I want you to know what they're doing in your life.
Speaker 6: He told a moment put us, hey, now, what's going
Speaker 6: on with you? A lot? They've got me way up
Speaker 6: here in this bullshit that has joy away. This ship
Speaker 6: here is ridiculous. Oh yeah, on my transfer, I think
Speaker 6: they just destroyed my typewritters so to keep me from
Speaker 6: doing legal work. They haven't send me my typewriter back here.
Speaker 6: Ain't no saying to me for sailing ship. What the
Speaker 6: fuck am I doing? Way up shit? How the fuck
Speaker 6: can I be of any use? Way up here? You
Speaker 6: can't even get to the lawn linerary is you got
Speaker 6: to wait two weeks fifty get to the law lickery.
Speaker 4: It's twenty thirteen and Shobacca Shakur has been shipped to
Speaker 4: a prison near the Canadian border. At that moment, he's
Speaker 4: been in prison twenty five years for a double homicide.
Speaker 4: He insists he didn't commit. He's challenged his murder conviction
Speaker 4: who knows how many times, and almost exhausted his appeals.
Speaker 2: It's depressing.
Speaker 4: He calls his friend and advisor Derek Hamilton, who's out
Speaker 4: of prison on parole.
Speaker 2: We got a hold of about one hundred.
Speaker 4: Hours of Shabaka's calls from prison, all recorded by corrections officials.
Speaker 6: One thing you got to remember the moment is in
Speaker 6: your favorite rate. I agree with that.
Speaker 7: Listen man, it's your time.
Speaker 1: Brother, Maybe it is Shabacca's time. He's still working the
Speaker 1: courts and suddenly there's another possibility, a little flashlight at
Speaker 1: the end of his long tunnel, because at that moment
Speaker 1: changes in the air. There's a heated campaign for Brooklyn
Speaker 1: District Attorney, and wrongful convictions are becoming a crucial campaign issue.
Speaker 1: There is the possibility, maybe for the first time, that
Speaker 1: a sincere reinvestigation of questionable convictions will take place inside
Speaker 1: the DA's office.
Speaker 7: When God says your time is your time, you know
Speaker 7: what I mean. Nobody can't stop.
Speaker 2: At me, but Shabaka, he's not quite sure.
Speaker 6: It's politics now, it's no longer, it's no long a thought.
Speaker 8: Stone cloud of comments common strate to you.
Speaker 2: You can't run for shelter.
Speaker 4: There's nothing you can't do.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the burden.
Speaker 4: I'm Steve Fishman and i'm DA's Devlin Ross. In this episode,
Speaker 4: does a new DA mean a new day?
Speaker 9: We have concluded that men were wrongfully convicted.
Speaker 6: I think that your state is going to be one
Speaker 6: of the primary one.
Speaker 1: These are real wives that you're impacting.
Speaker 6: You got to your parents go to court.
Speaker 1: You gotta hold old time.
Speaker 4: Goo Okay, Steve, before things really heat up in the
Speaker 4: Brooklyn DA's race.
Speaker 2: Let's rewind the clock.
Speaker 1: It's twenty twelve and Luis Garcela is living on Staten Island.
Speaker 1: He's been retired for a dozen years. At one point
Speaker 1: he'd become a commercial diver, building stuff like piers underwater.
Speaker 1: He frequents the Russian baths and regularly plunges into the
Speaker 1: freezing water off Coney Island for his health. As he
Speaker 1: liked to say, his former life is a cigar smoking,
Speaker 1: swashbuckling detective is by now long behind him, living on
Speaker 1: mainly as memories archived on TV.
Speaker 10: My partner and I have investigated more than three hundred motives,
Speaker 10: but there's one case that stands out from the rest
Speaker 10: because of in my neighborhood and the people who lived there.
Speaker 1: Like when he started an episode of Top Cops that
Speaker 1: was a nationally syndicated TV show, from the early nineties.
Speaker 1: It dramatized great detective.
Speaker 11: Work in Williamsburg.
Speaker 9: The minute I arrived, I knew something big was going.
Speaker 4: On with cheesy recreations like this actor who played Louis.
Speaker 6: Hey, what's what.
Speaker 1: On this episode of Top Cops. It's the story of
Speaker 1: Louie's most famous case. It's nineteen ninety one and a
Speaker 1: leader in the Jewish community has been gunned down. Dozens
Speaker 1: of detectives were assigned to the case. No one can
Speaker 1: catch the murderer, and so the lieutenant sends in his
Speaker 1: top dog, Louis Scarcella.
Speaker 2: Okay, you're up to chart until this one's finished. This
Speaker 2: baby's yours.
Speaker 1: In the show, Scarcella arrested a crack addict for the
Speaker 1: rabbi's murder, a streak Mutt. Scarcella like to call him.
Speaker 1: His name David Ranta. Scarcella was eventually alone with Ranta
Speaker 1: in Central Booking, and he went to work.
Speaker 2: Be a man about it. You won't be a nothing.
Speaker 9: You did this.
Speaker 2: Right in impatient, all right?
Speaker 6: All right?
Speaker 2: That was there, So Ranta just comes clean.
Speaker 1: Kind of what happened, according to Scarcela, just like in
Speaker 1: Schebacca's case, is that Ranta doesn't make a full confession.
Speaker 1: The statement attributes three fateful words to Ranta. I was
Speaker 1: there that puts Ranta at the scene of the crime,
Speaker 1: and because of that a jury will decide, in effect,
Speaker 1: he's an accomplice to murder, for which Ranta will be
Speaker 1: sentenced to thirty seven and a half years behind bars.
Speaker 4: Fast forward two decades, two decades after the show that
Speaker 4: lauded Scarcella's detective work, and the real David Ranta appears
Speaker 4: before Brooklyn judge the DA. The same DA who prosecuted him,
Speaker 4: has petitioned the court to overturn the conviction, and as
Speaker 4: Ranta leaves the Court of Freeman, the press surrounds him.
Speaker 12: Right now, I feel like I'm on the water swimming,
Speaker 12: So I can't really just be honest with an answer,
Speaker 12: because this is overwhelming.
Speaker 2: If you have any one thing you want to do.
Speaker 4: Yeah, get the hell out of here.
Speaker 1: Maybe the rant To ruling detonates in Scarcella's life. For years,
Speaker 1: the DA's office had stood by Scarcella's police work. No longer,
Speaker 1: the DA said quote The decision to overturn the rant
Speaker 1: To conviction was made in part because of the conduct
Speaker 1: of detective Scarcella.
Speaker 13: David Ranta getting out was the match that lit the spark.
Speaker 7: Detective Scarcela, I'm retired.
Speaker 11: You served.
Speaker 1: The day Ranta was freed, a reporter caught up with
Speaker 1: Scarcella as he was heading into his Staten Island home.
Speaker 11: What do you think about this release of Ranta.
Speaker 14: I really can't talk about it, but well, what I
Speaker 14: will say is this, I'm certainly not running from you.
Speaker 2: I stand by the confession. I stand by the case.
Speaker 1: Shebacca knows the Ranta case has echoes of his case,
Speaker 1: namely that supposed confession. Remember, Scarcella claimed he took a
Speaker 1: confession from Schabacca, just as he says he took one
Speaker 1: from Ranta. Both Ranta and Shabacca deny they gave statements.
Speaker 4: But there was also a key difference between their cases.
Speaker 4: David Rant gets a case overturned. He the important part,
Speaker 4: David Ranta was white.
Speaker 13: So now it made it seem like you got a
Speaker 13: bunch of people who have been saying he's a crooked
Speaker 13: cop all this time, and y'all didn't do anything. But
Speaker 13: here comes the white guy and says it, and y'all
Speaker 13: let him out of jail. So the newspaper hopped on
Speaker 13: it immediately. We was able to get it to the
Speaker 13: New York Times and say, look, look what's going on here.
Speaker 13: How is he getting out for saying the same thing
Speaker 13: that we've been saying for twenty something years.
Speaker 3: It's the Rantom case that drives me because I know
Speaker 3: now that I'm right. You know that Hamilton is right,
Speaker 3: that Derek Hamilton has told me something that's true.
Speaker 1: New York Times reporter Franchie roblas Derek had told Franchie
Speaker 1: that Carcela's alleged misdeeds were responsible for lots of wrongful convictions.
Speaker 1: The district attorney now said he was right in at
Speaker 1: least one case, when Ranta was freed in twenty thirteen.
Speaker 1: Charles Hines is the Brooklyn District Attorney and he's running
Speaker 1: for reelection. It is politics now. Heines overturns Ransa's conviction,
Speaker 1: and that's good for his campaign, but remember it was
Speaker 1: Heinz's office that also prosecuted Rancid twenty years earlier, and
Speaker 1: that that's not a good look for his campaign. So
Speaker 1: Heines paints Detective Scarcella as the culprit a rogue, a
Speaker 1: lone bad actor, nothing to do with the DA's work.
Speaker 1: Keep moving people. Nothing to see here.
Speaker 3: The Brooklyn District Attorney's office, for whatever reason, was remaining really, really,
Speaker 3: really adamant that they were not going to open any
Speaker 3: other Scarcella cases. They were like, no, this is a
Speaker 3: one time thing. We don't have any reason to believe
Speaker 3: that it was a pattern.
Speaker 4: French didn't buy it. She put together her explosive story,
Speaker 4: asserting that Scarcella's alleged misdeeds may have led to lots
Speaker 4: of wrawful convictions. Before her story was published, French she
Speaker 4: had posed a crucial question to the DA.
Speaker 3: Do you stand behind these convictions or not?
Speaker 1: Turned out he wasn't standing behind them. Frenchie's article lands
Speaker 1: in the middle of what was turning out to be
Speaker 1: a brutal reelection campaign. Her reporting puts pressure on Hines.
Speaker 1: He responds he reopens more than fifty Scarcella cases, among
Speaker 1: them Shabacca's.
Speaker 3: They reopened the Kings because we forced them to. Hines
Speaker 3: actually dodged me for the eleven months that I spent
Speaker 3: on that story.
Speaker 1: And so suddenly Louis Scarcella is a campaign issue. A
Speaker 1: guy from the Post is low. Hines just threw you
Speaker 1: under the bus.
Speaker 11: What did that?
Speaker 1: What was the feeling you had? I was enraged.
Speaker 11: I was angry.
Speaker 1: I was very very angry.
Speaker 2: But Chabacca he was elated.
Speaker 13: The most excited I was was when the newspaper article
Speaker 13: that The New York Times printed came out. When that
Speaker 13: came out, I said, I'm going home.
Speaker 1: Wrongful convictions were a full blown scandal, now a contagion,
Speaker 1: and District Attorney candidate Hines could not contain it.
Speaker 4: He'd been the DA for twenty three years, and suddenly
Speaker 4: it looked like he was part of the problem.
Speaker 6: Yeah, what's up?
Speaker 1: Was this dude of Kenneth Thomas, This dude Kenneth Thompson,
Speaker 1: the man trying to unseat Hines, the man who could
Speaker 1: change Shabaka's fate. That's after the break.
Speaker 14: I'm running for a DA for every person that is
Speaker 14: wrongfully convicted and sentenced to prison for murders they didn't commit.
Speaker 2: Kenneth Thompson.
Speaker 4: It's twenty thirteen and Thompson is running against Charles Hines,
Speaker 4: a seventy eight year old man in his sixth term
Speaker 4: as Brooklyn District Attorney.
Speaker 1: Thompson is an exciting candidate. He's a black man only
Speaker 1: forty seven years old, and his message is in sync
Speaker 1: with the moment.
Speaker 9: I believe in my heart that it is the job
Speaker 9: of the DA to correct such mischaracters of justice and
Speaker 9: to freemen from prison who do not belong in prison.
Speaker 1: He's a former prosecutor who grew up in a public
Speaker 1: housing project. He sympathizes with the wrongfully convicted. In law school,
Speaker 1: he'd memorized every account of police abuse in the country.
Speaker 1: He could recite dates and details.
Speaker 9: Because these wrongful convictions not only destroy the lives of
Speaker 9: those who are wrongfully convicted, but their families, and they
Speaker 9: undermine the integrity of our criminal justice system.
Speaker 4: So Shebaca and Derek are extremely excited about the possibility
Speaker 4: that Thompson might be the new DA. Maybe Thompson will
Speaker 4: clear Derek's record, maybe he'll help Shobacca win his freedom.
Speaker 4: But first Thompson has to get elected, and that isn't going.
Speaker 2: To be easy.
Speaker 4: He has virtually no support from the political establishment. What's more,
Speaker 4: no incumbent has lost a Brooklyn DA election in a century,
Speaker 4: and the incumbent he's up against he's not going to
Speaker 4: go down without a fight.
Speaker 15: Joining me once again is the district Attorney of Brooklyn,
Speaker 15: Charles Hines, welcome to reaching out once again.
Speaker 11: Could to be with it, Greg, thank you very much
Speaker 11: for this is.
Speaker 4: A clip from local radio station AM nine seventy.
Speaker 11: Quickly the background.
Speaker 9: I had the privilege of becoming da In nineteen ninety
Speaker 9: there were one hundred and fifty eight thousand serious felonies
Speaker 9: in Brooklyn.
Speaker 1: But by the time of this election, murders in the
Speaker 1: city had fallen eighty five percent. Hines liked to claim
Speaker 1: credit for safer streets, but to a public, many of
Speaker 1: whom didn't remember the bad old days of the eighties
Speaker 1: and nineties, that seemed like old news, kind of like
Speaker 1: Heines himself.
Speaker 4: So this campaign is heated, and Hines accuses Thompson of
Speaker 4: misrepresenting the record.
Speaker 7: Why why do you lie repeatedly?
Speaker 14: You know, damn, let's be well, you have to go
Speaker 14: a sibyl if you don't mind to be civil here
Speaker 14: to be civil.
Speaker 7: I don't think you understand what the word means.
Speaker 11: Les all.
Speaker 2: To Derek and Shabaka, Hines is the enemy.
Speaker 12: Derek pressed them when they would have on press conferences.
Speaker 12: He would ask them what about wrong for convictions?
Speaker 4: Heines hoped that by reopening fifty scar Seller cases. He
Speaker 4: could put the wrong for conviction issue behind him, but
Speaker 4: Thompson he wasn't going to let him outrun his past.
Speaker 4: He called out Hines for ducking responsibility, for blaming one
Speaker 4: rogue cop.
Speaker 14: It is extraordinary that he has to review fifty tainted
Speaker 14: homicide cases and he wants to throw Detective scars Sell
Speaker 14: up under the bus. The tect divescus Seller did not
Speaker 14: operate in a vacuum. He operated hand in hand with
Speaker 14: the DA's office. So you can't stand here and awfully
Speaker 14: convict people and then turn around and try to make
Speaker 14: Captain of America and say that you're going to free them.
Speaker 11: Find the.
Speaker 4: Shabaka says that Thompson's attacks fired Derek up.
Speaker 12: He went and advocated, and we had all the people
Speaker 12: of families and friends of the wrong conviction spread in
Speaker 12: the word. And Derek went to Ken Thompson and said,
Speaker 12: I am going to advocate for you. I'm going to
Speaker 12: push for everybody, but you're going to do what you
Speaker 12: said about wrongful convictions, or I am going to advocate
Speaker 12: against you once you're in office.
Speaker 2: Derek Tellschabaka that he got to know Thompson.
Speaker 7: Me and them guys have a pretty decent relationship because
Speaker 7: I was out knocking on doors for them all. You
Speaker 7: know what I mean the project.
Speaker 4: Derek says he has a decent relationship with Thompson's people
Speaker 4: because he was out campaigning for him in the projects.
Speaker 12: We spread the word to everybody that we knew in
Speaker 12: the streets, vote for this person, vote for that person's.
Speaker 7: Pure They wouldn't go, you know, I'm knocking on doors given.
Speaker 12: People, and we had the prisoners in jail telling them,
Speaker 12: make sure your family votes for Ken Thompson. He went,
Speaker 12: he did more rallies.
Speaker 7: You have a vac prepaid call from an inmate, Aunt Wendy,
Speaker 7: and it works vot correctional.
Speaker 6: Hello Hello Leah Hi, yeah backo Yeah.
Speaker 1: This is one of Chbacca's lawyers, Leah Busby.
Speaker 6: Hi.
Speaker 10: I didn't say your name, but I guess it was you.
Speaker 6: That's it going, oh rings all.
Speaker 10: Oh, by the way, did you hear about what happened
Speaker 10: in the election.
Speaker 6: Oh, Heine's is out.
Speaker 4: Oh that's it's a huge upset in an historic victory.
Speaker 4: The vote wasn't close. Thompson fifty five percent, Heines forty five.
Speaker 4: Thompson would become the first black DA in Brooklyn history.
Speaker 7: I just got a change tonight at Berl Hall downtown.
Speaker 7: They got a unitie rally for Ken Thompson.
Speaker 4: It's a victory rally, and Derek goes to celebrate. Meanwhile,
Speaker 4: back in prison, Chabaka allows himself to think that maybe
Speaker 4: maybe this new DA will help him.
Speaker 6: I definitely need Jonna holla at him about my case.
Speaker 6: Let him know this man, that's gonna be done.
Speaker 7: That's going to be done. We just had a conversation.
Speaker 7: I was in his office. They asked for a list
Speaker 7: of cases. I said, hey, what what case was jury from?
Speaker 7: He said, of course. So everybody agreed man that you
Speaker 7: know you are one of the primary cases that should
Speaker 7: be the view.
Speaker 2: Now Thompson just needs to keep his word.
Speaker 1: If that happens, then Schabacca believes he will walk free,
Speaker 1: and so does Derek. But Derek has another priority, his
Speaker 1: own case. Derek wants his own conviction overturned, and now
Speaker 1: he knows someone on the inside.
Speaker 7: KENFF Johnson is a very good man. Max.
Speaker 1: That's after the break.
Speaker 4: Here's Ken Thompson's situation as he walks in the door.
Speaker 4: The DA's office is a trouble place. On one side,
Speaker 4: there's Thompson's new Guard. These are the people he selected.
Speaker 15: So this sense of writing past injustices was very important
Speaker 15: to him.
Speaker 2: That's Eric Gonzales back then he was Thompson's number two.
Speaker 1: And then there's the Old Guard, the people Thompson inherited,
Speaker 1: Hinz's crew. These are prosecutors who'd fought Shabaka's and Derek's
Speaker 1: appeals for decades. Assistant DA Taylor Coss remembers what the
Speaker 1: Old Guard was saying about Derek.
Speaker 16: Hamilton was so he was notorious in the office right.
Speaker 16: He was a known quantity. In fact, they got to
Speaker 16: know his stuff so well so that when another inmate
Speaker 16: would make a submission, they could tell when he helped
Speaker 16: them out.
Speaker 4: Derek was out on parole. He wanted to fight for Shabaka,
Speaker 4: but he was also determined to get his own conviction overturned.
Speaker 2: His case was.
Speaker 4: Being reviewed by the new DA's Conviction Review Unit, which
Speaker 4: was at that moment still influenced by the Old Guard.
Speaker 5: They was a real big movement to stop by his hooneration.
Speaker 5: There was actually people in the DA's office that hated
Speaker 5: me to the degree that they didn't want this to happen.
Speaker 1: Why did DA's Office fight your exoneration so much?
Speaker 5: Because I won so many cases against the DA's office.
Speaker 2: For other people.
Speaker 5: The DA's office look at me as being a trouble maker.
Speaker 5: They look at me as interfering in how they do business.
Speaker 1: Derek's case becomes a test for Ken Thompson's office. Eric Gonzales,
Speaker 1: this was.
Speaker 15: The hardest one for the agency because there was so
Speaker 15: much internal pushback.
Speaker 4: Taylor Costs heard the grumblings. He knew exactly how the
Speaker 4: Old Guard felt. They remember Derek's earlier cases, like the
Speaker 4: bread truck murder, the case he'd gotten overturned in the
Speaker 4: previous episode.
Speaker 8: I just don't think people think he was a good
Speaker 8: guy to begin with. Yeah, I don't have any reason
Speaker 8: to know one way or the other, but I did hear,
Speaker 8: and you know, people think he obviously commanded those original murders. Yeah,
Speaker 8: they were extraordinarily displeased that he was released so early
Speaker 8: on the first homicide.
Speaker 1: The Old Guard is blocking Derek's path inside the conviction
Speaker 1: review unit. Derek realizes, now electing Thompson that wasn't enough.
Speaker 1: He writes Thompson a personal.
Speaker 5: Letter, and I tell him I said, hey, man, do
Speaker 5: you promise integrity? Dan was transparent, it was fair, and
Speaker 5: this is not what I'm getting and I look forward
Speaker 5: to whooping yell ass in court.
Speaker 1: Thompson takes the letter seriously. He has a message for
Speaker 1: the Old Guard.
Speaker 15: It was a moment for the DA where he basically
Speaker 15: said to the office, if you can't get with the
Speaker 15: new way of us going back and looking at these
Speaker 15: conviction review matters, then maybe you.
Speaker 11: Have to leave.
Speaker 1: Gonzalez reviews the file and comes to a different conclusion
Speaker 1: than the Old Guard. He recommends that Thompson overturned the conviction.
Speaker 15: Once the decision was made, it was done quickly.
Speaker 6: Please hold a moment. Sure he's going on with your wall.
Speaker 1: Meanwhile, Shabaka is still waiting to hear back from Ken
Speaker 1: Thompson's office, so he calls Derek. He's hopeful that Ken
Speaker 1: Thompson will come through, but his lawyer, Ron Koby, isn't
Speaker 1: so sure.
Speaker 6: He hasn't heard from this duel Kenneth Thompson. He doesn't
Speaker 6: have any faith in him. So I'll explain to him that, look,
Speaker 6: people that I deal with have been dealing with him.
Speaker 6: You see what I'm saying, And this guy is going
Speaker 6: to look into the matters of these lawful convictions.
Speaker 1: It's a tough moment for Shabaka. He wants to put
Speaker 1: his faith in Ken Thompson.
Speaker 4: At the same time, his legal skills have won him
Speaker 4: a court hearing and that court could just throw out
Speaker 4: his conviction. But going to court now pokes the bear.
Speaker 4: Instead of working with the DA, he'll have to fight
Speaker 4: the DA.
Speaker 1: He calls Kooby to see how long it will take
Speaker 1: to get into court.
Speaker 6: Probably another four to six weeks, that's my guess. So
Speaker 6: we're talking about some time in November.
Speaker 10: Sometimes November, maybe beginning of December. You know, you have Thanksgiving.
Speaker 10: People go away. I don't go anywhere, and you don't
Speaker 10: go anywhere, but.
Speaker 6: So definitely do not.
Speaker 1: It's frustrating as hell for Shabaka. He can't even nail
Speaker 1: down at court date. Waiting seems like all he's doing.
Speaker 10: Once you go to court, you lose what you know,
Speaker 10: a lot of control over a lot of moving parts,
Speaker 10: and sometimes they break in your favor and sometimes they
Speaker 10: break against you.
Speaker 6: I don't want to go down there and then we
Speaker 6: don't have enough because if I lose this here and
Speaker 6: this is it.
Speaker 4: Kobe follows Shabacca's lead and agrees to put the court
Speaker 4: case on hold, let Thompson's conviction review people just do
Speaker 4: their work.
Speaker 2: For a while, I was happy.
Speaker 6: I mean.
Speaker 12: I really thought I said, yeah, he's gonna let me
Speaker 12: go because he's gonna do something.
Speaker 1: But then the DA called his lawyer.
Speaker 12: They contacted Ron and told Ron they wanted more time
Speaker 12: to investigate.
Speaker 1: They wanted more time. They'd already had the case for
Speaker 1: two years.
Speaker 2: Chabacca is calling Kobe's.
Speaker 6: Office for morning, is just pushing me on. I have
Speaker 6: absolutely no faith in the District Attorney's office. Given the
Speaker 6: District attorney time for them to figure out some type
Speaker 6: of trick or whatever the fuck they want to do
Speaker 6: to try to fuck my case up, do not postpone
Speaker 6: my case. Do not postpone my case. I don't want
Speaker 6: my case going off for months and months and months.
Speaker 4: Chabacca turns down the DA. He wants Koby to get
Speaker 4: him into court.
Speaker 2: It forced them to make a decision.
Speaker 4: It forced the DA's office to say once and for
Speaker 4: all whether or not they thought Chabacco was guilty. On
Speaker 4: the first day of the court hearing, the judge turns
Speaker 4: to the Assistant District attorney.
Speaker 12: That's when the judge asks them, well, what's your position.
Speaker 12: So they took the position, well, we believe he is guilty.
Speaker 12: So rather than say okay, let's exonerate him and then say no,
Speaker 12: well let.
Speaker 2: Him prove it.
Speaker 13: That was okay with me because that's all I wanted anyway.
Speaker 16: It was to prove it.
Speaker 2: Now it's law, not politics.
Speaker 1: Next time on The Burden, Shebacca has his day in court.
Speaker 10: The biggest debate that Shebacca and I had, what's whether
Speaker 10: or not the call Scar self. I'm surely not gonna
Speaker 10: call it.
Speaker 6: How do you bring in the information of his past mistive.
Speaker 8: Stone Clark common commonstrating.
Speaker 4: You can't run for shelter?
Speaker 10: Does look that you can't do.
Speaker 1: The Burden is created by Steve Fishman.
Speaker 11: That's me.
Speaker 1: It's hosted and reported by Steve Fishman and Dax Devlin. Ross.
Speaker 1: Story editor is Dan Bobkoff. Our senior producer is Simon Rentner.
Speaker 1: Our producer is Sanam Skelly, Associate producer Austin Smith. Fact
Speaker 1: checking by Sona Avakian. Our production coordinator is Davon Paradise.
Speaker 1: Mixing and sound design by Mumbo Media. Our executive producers
Speaker 1: are Fisher, Stevens, Evan Williams and me Steve Fishman. Additional
Speaker 1: production help from Josie Holtzman, Isaac Kestenbaum, Naomi Bronner, Lucy Suchek,
Speaker 1: Drew Nellis, Micah Hazel, Priscilla Alabi, Saxon Baard, Katie Simon,
Speaker 1: and Katie Spranger. We give special thanks to Ellen Horn,
Speaker 1: Lizzie Jacobs, Nathan Tempe, Tobiah Black, Rachel Morrissey, Lyla Robinson,
Speaker 1: Mark Smerling and Jack Stewart Pontier. And deep appreciation to
Speaker 1: Marcy Wiseman. Special thanks to our agents Ben Davis and
Speaker 1: Marissa Hurrowitz. Mona Hook provided our legal advice. She's from
Speaker 1: mksr LLLP, and a very special thanks to Evan Williams,
Speaker 1: one of our executive producers and the person who made
Speaker 1: this podcast possible. We are honored to feature the song
Speaker 1: Black Lightning from The Bell Rays as our theme music.
Speaker 1: The Burden is a production of Orbit Media in association
Speaker 1: with Signal Company.
Speaker 11: Number one.
Speaker 1: Season two of The burdon Empire on blow Ud will
Speaker 1: be available everywhere you get your podcasts on August seventh.
Speaker 1: All episodes will be available early and ad free along
Speaker 1: with exclusive bonus content on Orbit's newly launched True Crime Clubhouse,
Speaker 1: our subscription channel on Apple Podcasts. It's only two ninety
Speaker 1: nine a month.