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Speaker 1: Hi, Steve Fishman here, creator of The Burden, as well

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Speaker 1: as the number one true crime podcast, My Friend The

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Speaker 1: Serial Killer. For those of you who liked The Burden,

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Speaker 1: I have good news. Season two starts August seventh. It's

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Speaker 1: a series called The Burden Empire on Blood and it's

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Speaker 1: the director's cut of the true crime classic Empire on Blood,

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Speaker 1: which reached number one on the charts when it debuted

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Speaker 1: half a dozen years ago. Then the fat cat funders

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Speaker 1: abandon it. I wrangled it back and now I'm thrilled

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Speaker 1: to share this story of a man who fought the

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Speaker 1: law for two decades, fought against the Bronx's top homicide

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Speaker 1: prosecutor and a detective sometimes known as the Luis Scarcela

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Speaker 1: of the Bronx. It's all coming to you August seventh.

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Speaker 1: Wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 2: Previously on The Burden, they have.

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Speaker 3: No concept of what it was like back then, two

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Speaker 3: hundred murders a year in the city.

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Speaker 4: Violence was happening everywhere.

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Speaker 1: We're here in the belly of the Beast. We're here

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Speaker 1: doing what we gotta do, and we did it.

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Speaker 3: Everybody was in on it. The cops were in on it,

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Speaker 3: and the witnesses were in on it all. Hell was

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Speaker 3: breaking loose.

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Speaker 5: Says to me, kid, get your head out your ass.

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Speaker 4: I want you to know what they're doing in your life.

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Speaker 6: He told a moment put us, hey, now, what's going

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Speaker 6: on with you? A lot? They've got me way up

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Speaker 6: here in this bullshit that has joy away. This ship

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Speaker 6: here is ridiculous. Oh yeah, on my transfer, I think

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Speaker 6: they just destroyed my typewritters so to keep me from

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Speaker 6: doing legal work. They haven't send me my typewriter back here.

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Speaker 6: Ain't no saying to me for sailing ship. What the

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Speaker 6: fuck am I doing? Way up shit? How the fuck

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Speaker 6: can I be of any use? Way up here? You

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Speaker 6: can't even get to the lawn linerary is you got

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Speaker 6: to wait two weeks fifty get to the law lickery.

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Speaker 4: It's twenty thirteen and Shobacca Shakur has been shipped to

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Speaker 4: a prison near the Canadian border. At that moment, he's

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Speaker 4: been in prison twenty five years for a double homicide.

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Speaker 4: He insists he didn't commit. He's challenged his murder conviction

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Speaker 4: who knows how many times, and almost exhausted his appeals.

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Speaker 2: It's depressing.

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Speaker 4: He calls his friend and advisor Derek Hamilton, who's out

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Speaker 4: of prison on parole.

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Speaker 2: We got a hold of about one hundred.

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Speaker 4: Hours of Shabaka's calls from prison, all recorded by corrections officials.

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Speaker 6: One thing you got to remember the moment is in

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Speaker 6: your favorite rate. I agree with that.

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Speaker 7: Listen man, it's your time.

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Speaker 1: Brother, Maybe it is Shabacca's time. He's still working the

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Speaker 1: courts and suddenly there's another possibility, a little flashlight at

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Speaker 1: the end of his long tunnel, because at that moment

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Speaker 1: changes in the air. There's a heated campaign for Brooklyn

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Speaker 1: District Attorney, and wrongful convictions are becoming a crucial campaign issue.

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Speaker 1: There is the possibility, maybe for the first time, that

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Speaker 1: a sincere reinvestigation of questionable convictions will take place inside

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Speaker 1: the DA's office.

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Speaker 7: When God says your time is your time, you know

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Speaker 7: what I mean. Nobody can't stop.

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Speaker 2: At me, but Shabaka, he's not quite sure.

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Speaker 6: It's politics now, it's no longer, it's no long a thought.

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Speaker 8: Stone cloud of comments common strate to you.

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Speaker 2: You can't run for shelter.

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Speaker 4: There's nothing you can't do.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the burden.

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Speaker 4: I'm Steve Fishman and i'm DA's Devlin Ross. In this episode,

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Speaker 4: does a new DA mean a new day?

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Speaker 9: We have concluded that men were wrongfully convicted.

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Speaker 6: I think that your state is going to be one

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Speaker 6: of the primary one.

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Speaker 1: These are real wives that you're impacting.

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Speaker 6: You got to your parents go to court.

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Speaker 1: You gotta hold old time.

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Speaker 4: Goo Okay, Steve, before things really heat up in the

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Speaker 4: Brooklyn DA's race.

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Speaker 2: Let's rewind the clock.

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Speaker 1: It's twenty twelve and Luis Garcela is living on Staten Island.

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Speaker 1: He's been retired for a dozen years. At one point

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Speaker 1: he'd become a commercial diver, building stuff like piers underwater.

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Speaker 1: He frequents the Russian baths and regularly plunges into the

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Speaker 1: freezing water off Coney Island for his health. As he

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Speaker 1: liked to say, his former life is a cigar smoking,

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Speaker 1: swashbuckling detective is by now long behind him, living on

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Speaker 1: mainly as memories archived on TV.

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Speaker 10: My partner and I have investigated more than three hundred motives,

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Speaker 10: but there's one case that stands out from the rest

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Speaker 10: because of in my neighborhood and the people who lived there.

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Speaker 1: Like when he started an episode of Top Cops that

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Speaker 1: was a nationally syndicated TV show, from the early nineties.

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Speaker 1: It dramatized great detective.

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Speaker 11: Work in Williamsburg.

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Speaker 9: The minute I arrived, I knew something big was going.

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Speaker 4: On with cheesy recreations like this actor who played Louis.

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Speaker 6: Hey, what's what.

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Speaker 1: On this episode of Top Cops. It's the story of

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Speaker 1: Louie's most famous case. It's nineteen ninety one and a

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Speaker 1: leader in the Jewish community has been gunned down. Dozens

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Speaker 1: of detectives were assigned to the case. No one can

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Speaker 1: catch the murderer, and so the lieutenant sends in his

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Speaker 1: top dog, Louis Scarcella.

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Speaker 2: Okay, you're up to chart until this one's finished. This

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Speaker 2: baby's yours.

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Speaker 1: In the show, Scarcella arrested a crack addict for the

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Speaker 1: rabbi's murder, a streak Mutt. Scarcella like to call him.

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Speaker 1: His name David Ranta. Scarcella was eventually alone with Ranta

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Speaker 1: in Central Booking, and he went to work.

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Speaker 2: Be a man about it. You won't be a nothing.

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Speaker 9: You did this.

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Speaker 2: Right in impatient, all right?

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Speaker 6: All right?

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Speaker 2: That was there, So Ranta just comes clean.

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Speaker 1: Kind of what happened, according to Scarcela, just like in

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Speaker 1: Schebacca's case, is that Ranta doesn't make a full confession.

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Speaker 1: The statement attributes three fateful words to Ranta. I was

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Speaker 1: there that puts Ranta at the scene of the crime,

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Speaker 1: and because of that a jury will decide, in effect,

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Speaker 1: he's an accomplice to murder, for which Ranta will be

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Speaker 1: sentenced to thirty seven and a half years behind bars.

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Speaker 4: Fast forward two decades, two decades after the show that

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Speaker 4: lauded Scarcella's detective work, and the real David Ranta appears

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Speaker 4: before Brooklyn judge the DA. The same DA who prosecuted him,

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Speaker 4: has petitioned the court to overturn the conviction, and as

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Speaker 4: Ranta leaves the Court of Freeman, the press surrounds him.

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Speaker 12: Right now, I feel like I'm on the water swimming,

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Speaker 12: So I can't really just be honest with an answer,

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Speaker 12: because this is overwhelming.

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Speaker 2: If you have any one thing you want to do.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, get the hell out of here.

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Speaker 1: Maybe the rant To ruling detonates in Scarcella's life. For years,

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Speaker 1: the DA's office had stood by Scarcella's police work. No longer,

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Speaker 1: the DA said quote The decision to overturn the rant

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Speaker 1: To conviction was made in part because of the conduct

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Speaker 1: of detective Scarcella.

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Speaker 13: David Ranta getting out was the match that lit the spark.

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Speaker 7: Detective Scarcela, I'm retired.

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Speaker 11: You served.

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Speaker 1: The day Ranta was freed, a reporter caught up with

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Speaker 1: Scarcella as he was heading into his Staten Island home.

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Speaker 11: What do you think about this release of Ranta.

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Speaker 14: I really can't talk about it, but well, what I

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Speaker 14: will say is this, I'm certainly not running from you.

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Speaker 2: I stand by the confession. I stand by the case.

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Speaker 1: Shebacca knows the Ranta case has echoes of his case,

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Speaker 1: namely that supposed confession. Remember, Scarcella claimed he took a

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Speaker 1: confession from Schabacca, just as he says he took one

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Speaker 1: from Ranta. Both Ranta and Shabacca deny they gave statements.

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Speaker 4: But there was also a key difference between their cases.

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Speaker 4: David Rant gets a case overturned. He the important part,

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Speaker 4: David Ranta was white.

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Speaker 13: So now it made it seem like you got a

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Speaker 13: bunch of people who have been saying he's a crooked

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Speaker 13: cop all this time, and y'all didn't do anything. But

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Speaker 13: here comes the white guy and says it, and y'all

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Speaker 13: let him out of jail. So the newspaper hopped on

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Speaker 13: it immediately. We was able to get it to the

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Speaker 13: New York Times and say, look, look what's going on here.

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Speaker 13: How is he getting out for saying the same thing

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Speaker 13: that we've been saying for twenty something years.

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Speaker 3: It's the Rantom case that drives me because I know

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Speaker 3: now that I'm right. You know that Hamilton is right,

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Speaker 3: that Derek Hamilton has told me something that's true.

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Speaker 1: New York Times reporter Franchie roblas Derek had told Franchie

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Speaker 1: that Carcela's alleged misdeeds were responsible for lots of wrongful convictions.

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Speaker 1: The district attorney now said he was right in at

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Speaker 1: least one case, when Ranta was freed in twenty thirteen.

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Speaker 1: Charles Hines is the Brooklyn District Attorney and he's running

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Speaker 1: for reelection. It is politics now. Heines overturns Ransa's conviction,

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Speaker 1: and that's good for his campaign, but remember it was

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Speaker 1: Heinz's office that also prosecuted Rancid twenty years earlier, and

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Speaker 1: that that's not a good look for his campaign. So

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Speaker 1: Heines paints Detective Scarcella as the culprit a rogue, a

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Speaker 1: lone bad actor, nothing to do with the DA's work.

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Speaker 1: Keep moving people. Nothing to see here.

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Speaker 3: The Brooklyn District Attorney's office, for whatever reason, was remaining really, really,

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Speaker 3: really adamant that they were not going to open any

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Speaker 3: other Scarcella cases. They were like, no, this is a

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Speaker 3: one time thing. We don't have any reason to believe

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Speaker 3: that it was a pattern.

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Speaker 4: French didn't buy it. She put together her explosive story,

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Speaker 4: asserting that Scarcella's alleged misdeeds may have led to lots

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Speaker 4: of wrawful convictions. Before her story was published, French she

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Speaker 4: had posed a crucial question to the DA.

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Speaker 3: Do you stand behind these convictions or not?

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Speaker 1: Turned out he wasn't standing behind them. Frenchie's article lands

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Speaker 1: in the middle of what was turning out to be

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Speaker 1: a brutal reelection campaign. Her reporting puts pressure on Hines.

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Speaker 1: He responds he reopens more than fifty Scarcella cases, among

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Speaker 1: them Shabacca's.

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Speaker 3: They reopened the Kings because we forced them to. Hines

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Speaker 3: actually dodged me for the eleven months that I spent

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Speaker 3: on that story.

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Speaker 1: And so suddenly Louis Scarcella is a campaign issue. A

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Speaker 1: guy from the Post is low. Hines just threw you

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Speaker 1: under the bus.

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Speaker 11: What did that?

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Speaker 1: What was the feeling you had? I was enraged.

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Speaker 11: I was angry.

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Speaker 1: I was very very angry.

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Speaker 2: But Chabacca he was elated.

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Speaker 13: The most excited I was was when the newspaper article

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Speaker 13: that The New York Times printed came out. When that

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Speaker 13: came out, I said, I'm going home.

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Speaker 1: Wrongful convictions were a full blown scandal, now a contagion,

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Speaker 1: and District Attorney candidate Hines could not contain it.

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Speaker 4: He'd been the DA for twenty three years, and suddenly

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Speaker 4: it looked like he was part of the problem.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, what's up?

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Speaker 1: Was this dude of Kenneth Thomas, This dude Kenneth Thompson,

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Speaker 1: the man trying to unseat Hines, the man who could

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Speaker 1: change Shabaka's fate. That's after the break.

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Speaker 14: I'm running for a DA for every person that is

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Speaker 14: wrongfully convicted and sentenced to prison for murders they didn't commit.

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Speaker 2: Kenneth Thompson.

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Speaker 4: It's twenty thirteen and Thompson is running against Charles Hines,

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Speaker 4: a seventy eight year old man in his sixth term

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Speaker 4: as Brooklyn District Attorney.

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Speaker 1: Thompson is an exciting candidate. He's a black man only

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Speaker 1: forty seven years old, and his message is in sync

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Speaker 1: with the moment.

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Speaker 9: I believe in my heart that it is the job

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Speaker 9: of the DA to correct such mischaracters of justice and

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Speaker 9: to freemen from prison who do not belong in prison.

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Speaker 1: He's a former prosecutor who grew up in a public

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Speaker 1: housing project. He sympathizes with the wrongfully convicted. In law school,

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Speaker 1: he'd memorized every account of police abuse in the country.

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Speaker 1: He could recite dates and details.

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Speaker 9: Because these wrongful convictions not only destroy the lives of

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Speaker 9: those who are wrongfully convicted, but their families, and they

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Speaker 9: undermine the integrity of our criminal justice system.

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Speaker 4: So Shebaca and Derek are extremely excited about the possibility

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Speaker 4: that Thompson might be the new DA. Maybe Thompson will

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Speaker 4: clear Derek's record, maybe he'll help Shobacca win his freedom.

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Speaker 4: But first Thompson has to get elected, and that isn't going.

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Speaker 2: To be easy.

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Speaker 4: He has virtually no support from the political establishment. What's more,

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Speaker 4: no incumbent has lost a Brooklyn DA election in a century,

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Speaker 4: and the incumbent he's up against he's not going to

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Speaker 4: go down without a fight.

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Speaker 15: Joining me once again is the district Attorney of Brooklyn,

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Speaker 15: Charles Hines, welcome to reaching out once again.

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Speaker 11: Could to be with it, Greg, thank you very much

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Speaker 11: for this is.

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Speaker 4: A clip from local radio station AM nine seventy.

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Speaker 11: Quickly the background.

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Speaker 9: I had the privilege of becoming da In nineteen ninety

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Speaker 9: there were one hundred and fifty eight thousand serious felonies

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Speaker 9: in Brooklyn.

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Speaker 1: But by the time of this election, murders in the

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Speaker 1: city had fallen eighty five percent. Hines liked to claim

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Speaker 1: credit for safer streets, but to a public, many of

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Speaker 1: whom didn't remember the bad old days of the eighties

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Speaker 1: and nineties, that seemed like old news, kind of like

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Speaker 1: Heines himself.

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Speaker 4: So this campaign is heated, and Hines accuses Thompson of

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Speaker 4: misrepresenting the record.

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Speaker 7: Why why do you lie repeatedly?

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Speaker 14: You know, damn, let's be well, you have to go

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Speaker 14: a sibyl if you don't mind to be civil here

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Speaker 14: to be civil.

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Speaker 7: I don't think you understand what the word means.

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Speaker 11: Les all.

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Speaker 2: To Derek and Shabaka, Hines is the enemy.

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Speaker 12: Derek pressed them when they would have on press conferences.

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Speaker 12: He would ask them what about wrong for convictions?

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Speaker 4: Heines hoped that by reopening fifty scar Seller cases. He

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Speaker 4: could put the wrong for conviction issue behind him, but

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Speaker 4: Thompson he wasn't going to let him outrun his past.

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Speaker 4: He called out Hines for ducking responsibility, for blaming one

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Speaker 4: rogue cop.

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Speaker 14: It is extraordinary that he has to review fifty tainted

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Speaker 14: homicide cases and he wants to throw Detective scars Sell

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Speaker 14: up under the bus. The tect divescus Seller did not

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Speaker 14: operate in a vacuum. He operated hand in hand with

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Speaker 14: the DA's office. So you can't stand here and awfully

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Speaker 14: convict people and then turn around and try to make

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Speaker 14: Captain of America and say that you're going to free them.

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Speaker 11: Find the.

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Speaker 4: Shabaka says that Thompson's attacks fired Derek up.

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Speaker 12: He went and advocated, and we had all the people

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Speaker 12: of families and friends of the wrong conviction spread in

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Speaker 12: the word. And Derek went to Ken Thompson and said,

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Speaker 12: I am going to advocate for you. I'm going to

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Speaker 12: push for everybody, but you're going to do what you

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Speaker 12: said about wrongful convictions, or I am going to advocate

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Speaker 12: against you once you're in office.

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Speaker 2: Derek Tellschabaka that he got to know Thompson.

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Speaker 7: Me and them guys have a pretty decent relationship because

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Speaker 7: I was out knocking on doors for them all. You

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Speaker 7: know what I mean the project.

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Speaker 4: Derek says he has a decent relationship with Thompson's people

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Speaker 4: because he was out campaigning for him in the projects.

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Speaker 12: We spread the word to everybody that we knew in

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Speaker 12: the streets, vote for this person, vote for that person's.

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Speaker 7: Pure They wouldn't go, you know, I'm knocking on doors given.

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Speaker 12: People, and we had the prisoners in jail telling them,

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Speaker 12: make sure your family votes for Ken Thompson. He went,

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Speaker 12: he did more rallies.

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Speaker 7: You have a vac prepaid call from an inmate, Aunt Wendy,

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Speaker 7: and it works vot correctional.

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Speaker 6: Hello Hello Leah Hi, yeah backo Yeah.

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Speaker 1: This is one of Chbacca's lawyers, Leah Busby.

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Speaker 6: Hi.

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Speaker 10: I didn't say your name, but I guess it was you.

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Speaker 6: That's it going, oh rings all.

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Speaker 10: Oh, by the way, did you hear about what happened

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Speaker 10: in the election.

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Speaker 6: Oh, Heine's is out.

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Speaker 4: Oh that's it's a huge upset in an historic victory.

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Speaker 4: The vote wasn't close. Thompson fifty five percent, Heines forty five.

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Speaker 4: Thompson would become the first black DA in Brooklyn history.

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Speaker 7: I just got a change tonight at Berl Hall downtown.

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Speaker 7: They got a unitie rally for Ken Thompson.

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Speaker 4: It's a victory rally, and Derek goes to celebrate. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 4: back in prison, Chabaka allows himself to think that maybe

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Speaker 4: maybe this new DA will help him.

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Speaker 6: I definitely need Jonna holla at him about my case.

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Speaker 6: Let him know this man, that's gonna be done.

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Speaker 7: That's going to be done. We just had a conversation.

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Speaker 7: I was in his office. They asked for a list

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Speaker 7: of cases. I said, hey, what what case was jury from?

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Speaker 7: He said, of course. So everybody agreed man that you

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Speaker 7: know you are one of the primary cases that should

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Speaker 7: be the view.

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Speaker 2: Now Thompson just needs to keep his word.

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Speaker 1: If that happens, then Schabacca believes he will walk free,

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Speaker 1: and so does Derek. But Derek has another priority, his

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Speaker 1: own case. Derek wants his own conviction overturned, and now

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Speaker 1: he knows someone on the inside.

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Speaker 7: KENFF Johnson is a very good man. Max.

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Speaker 1: That's after the break.

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Speaker 4: Here's Ken Thompson's situation as he walks in the door.

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Speaker 4: The DA's office is a trouble place. On one side,

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Speaker 4: there's Thompson's new Guard. These are the people he selected.

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Speaker 15: So this sense of writing past injustices was very important

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Speaker 15: to him.

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Speaker 2: That's Eric Gonzales back then he was Thompson's number two.

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Speaker 1: And then there's the Old Guard, the people Thompson inherited,

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Speaker 1: Hinz's crew. These are prosecutors who'd fought Shabaka's and Derek's

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Speaker 1: appeals for decades. Assistant DA Taylor Coss remembers what the

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Speaker 1: Old Guard was saying about Derek.

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Speaker 16: Hamilton was so he was notorious in the office right.

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Speaker 16: He was a known quantity. In fact, they got to

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Speaker 16: know his stuff so well so that when another inmate

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Speaker 16: would make a submission, they could tell when he helped

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Speaker 16: them out.

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Speaker 4: Derek was out on parole. He wanted to fight for Shabaka,

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Speaker 4: but he was also determined to get his own conviction overturned.

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Speaker 2: His case was.

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Speaker 4: Being reviewed by the new DA's Conviction Review Unit, which

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Speaker 4: was at that moment still influenced by the Old Guard.

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Speaker 5: They was a real big movement to stop by his hooneration.

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Speaker 5: There was actually people in the DA's office that hated

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Speaker 5: me to the degree that they didn't want this to happen.

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Speaker 1: Why did DA's Office fight your exoneration so much?

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Speaker 5: Because I won so many cases against the DA's office.

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Speaker 2: For other people.

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Speaker 5: The DA's office look at me as being a trouble maker.

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Speaker 5: They look at me as interfering in how they do business.

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Speaker 1: Derek's case becomes a test for Ken Thompson's office. Eric Gonzales,

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Speaker 1: this was.

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Speaker 15: The hardest one for the agency because there was so

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Speaker 15: much internal pushback.

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Speaker 4: Taylor Costs heard the grumblings. He knew exactly how the

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Speaker 4: Old Guard felt. They remember Derek's earlier cases, like the

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Speaker 4: bread truck murder, the case he'd gotten overturned in the

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Speaker 4: previous episode.

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Speaker 8: I just don't think people think he was a good

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Speaker 8: guy to begin with. Yeah, I don't have any reason

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Speaker 8: to know one way or the other, but I did hear,

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Speaker 8: and you know, people think he obviously commanded those original murders. Yeah,

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Speaker 8: they were extraordinarily displeased that he was released so early

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Speaker 8: on the first homicide.

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Speaker 1: The Old Guard is blocking Derek's path inside the conviction

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Speaker 1: review unit. Derek realizes, now electing Thompson that wasn't enough.

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Speaker 1: He writes Thompson a personal.

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Speaker 5: Letter, and I tell him I said, hey, man, do

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Speaker 5: you promise integrity? Dan was transparent, it was fair, and

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Speaker 5: this is not what I'm getting and I look forward

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Speaker 5: to whooping yell ass in court.

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Speaker 1: Thompson takes the letter seriously. He has a message for

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Speaker 1: the Old Guard.

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Speaker 15: It was a moment for the DA where he basically

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Speaker 15: said to the office, if you can't get with the

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Speaker 15: new way of us going back and looking at these

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Speaker 15: conviction review matters, then maybe you.

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Speaker 11: Have to leave.

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Speaker 1: Gonzalez reviews the file and comes to a different conclusion

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Speaker 1: than the Old Guard. He recommends that Thompson overturned the conviction.

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Speaker 15: Once the decision was made, it was done quickly.

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Speaker 6: Please hold a moment. Sure he's going on with your wall.

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Speaker 1: Meanwhile, Shabaka is still waiting to hear back from Ken

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Speaker 1: Thompson's office, so he calls Derek. He's hopeful that Ken

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Speaker 1: Thompson will come through, but his lawyer, Ron Koby, isn't

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Speaker 1: so sure.

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Speaker 6: He hasn't heard from this duel Kenneth Thompson. He doesn't

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Speaker 6: have any faith in him. So I'll explain to him that, look,

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Speaker 6: people that I deal with have been dealing with him.

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Speaker 6: You see what I'm saying, And this guy is going

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Speaker 6: to look into the matters of these lawful convictions.

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Speaker 1: It's a tough moment for Shabaka. He wants to put

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Speaker 1: his faith in Ken Thompson.

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Speaker 4: At the same time, his legal skills have won him

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Speaker 4: a court hearing and that court could just throw out

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Speaker 4: his conviction. But going to court now pokes the bear.

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Speaker 4: Instead of working with the DA, he'll have to fight

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Speaker 4: the DA.

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Speaker 1: He calls Kooby to see how long it will take

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Speaker 1: to get into court.

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Speaker 6: Probably another four to six weeks, that's my guess. So

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Speaker 6: we're talking about some time in November.

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Speaker 10: Sometimes November, maybe beginning of December. You know, you have Thanksgiving.

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Speaker 10: People go away. I don't go anywhere, and you don't

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Speaker 10: go anywhere, but.

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Speaker 6: So definitely do not.

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Speaker 1: It's frustrating as hell for Shabaka. He can't even nail

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Speaker 1: down at court date. Waiting seems like all he's doing.

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Speaker 10: Once you go to court, you lose what you know,

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Speaker 10: a lot of control over a lot of moving parts,

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Speaker 10: and sometimes they break in your favor and sometimes they

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Speaker 10: break against you.

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Speaker 6: I don't want to go down there and then we

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Speaker 6: don't have enough because if I lose this here and

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Speaker 6: this is it.

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Speaker 4: Kobe follows Shabacca's lead and agrees to put the court

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Speaker 4: case on hold, let Thompson's conviction review people just do

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Speaker 4: their work.

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Speaker 2: For a while, I was happy.

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Speaker 6: I mean.

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Speaker 12: I really thought I said, yeah, he's gonna let me

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Speaker 12: go because he's gonna do something.

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Speaker 1: But then the DA called his lawyer.

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Speaker 12: They contacted Ron and told Ron they wanted more time

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Speaker 12: to investigate.

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Speaker 1: They wanted more time. They'd already had the case for

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Speaker 1: two years.

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Speaker 2: Chabacca is calling Kobe's.

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Speaker 6: Office for morning, is just pushing me on. I have

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Speaker 6: absolutely no faith in the District Attorney's office. Given the

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Speaker 6: District attorney time for them to figure out some type

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Speaker 6: of trick or whatever the fuck they want to do

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Speaker 6: to try to fuck my case up, do not postpone

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Speaker 6: my case. Do not postpone my case. I don't want

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Speaker 6: my case going off for months and months and months.

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Speaker 4: Chabacca turns down the DA. He wants Koby to get

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Speaker 4: him into court.

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Speaker 2: It forced them to make a decision.

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Speaker 4: It forced the DA's office to say once and for

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Speaker 4: all whether or not they thought Chabacco was guilty. On

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Speaker 4: the first day of the court hearing, the judge turns

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Speaker 4: to the Assistant District attorney.

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Speaker 12: That's when the judge asks them, well, what's your position.

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Speaker 12: So they took the position, well, we believe he is guilty.

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Speaker 12: So rather than say okay, let's exonerate him and then say no,

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Speaker 12: well let.

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Speaker 2: Him prove it.

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Speaker 13: That was okay with me because that's all I wanted anyway.

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Speaker 16: It was to prove it.

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Speaker 2: Now it's law, not politics.

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Speaker 1: Next time on The Burden, Shebacca has his day in court.

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Speaker 10: The biggest debate that Shebacca and I had, what's whether

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Speaker 10: or not the call Scar self. I'm surely not gonna

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Speaker 10: call it.

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Speaker 6: How do you bring in the information of his past mistive.

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Speaker 8: Stone Clark common commonstrating.

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Speaker 4: You can't run for shelter?

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Speaker 10: Does look that you can't do.

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Speaker 1: The Burden is created by Steve Fishman.

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Speaker 11: That's me.

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Speaker 1: It's hosted and reported by Steve Fishman and Dax Devlin. Ross.

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Speaker 1: Story editor is Dan Bobkoff. Our senior producer is Simon Rentner.

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Speaker 1: Our producer is Sanam Skelly, Associate producer Austin Smith. Fact

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00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 1: checking by Sona Avakian. Our production coordinator is Davon Paradise.

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00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 1: Mixing and sound design by Mumbo Media. Our executive producers

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Speaker 1: are Fisher, Stevens, Evan Williams and me Steve Fishman. Additional

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00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 1: production help from Josie Holtzman, Isaac Kestenbaum, Naomi Bronner, Lucy Suchek,

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00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 1: Drew Nellis, Micah Hazel, Priscilla Alabi, Saxon Baard, Katie Simon,

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00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 1: and Katie Spranger. We give special thanks to Ellen Horn,

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00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 1: Lizzie Jacobs, Nathan Tempe, Tobiah Black, Rachel Morrissey, Lyla Robinson,

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00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 1: Mark Smerling and Jack Stewart Pontier. And deep appreciation to

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00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 1: Marcy Wiseman. Special thanks to our agents Ben Davis and

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00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 1: Marissa Hurrowitz. Mona Hook provided our legal advice. She's from

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Speaker 1: mksr LLLP, and a very special thanks to Evan Williams,

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Speaker 1: one of our executive producers and the person who made

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Speaker 1: this podcast possible. We are honored to feature the song

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Speaker 1: Black Lightning from The Bell Rays as our theme music.

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Speaker 1: The Burden is a production of Orbit Media in association

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Speaker 1: with Signal Company.

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Speaker 11: Number one.

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Speaker 1: Season two of The burdon Empire on blow Ud will

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Speaker 1: be available everywhere you get your podcasts on August seventh.

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Speaker 1: All episodes will be available early and ad free along

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Speaker 1: with exclusive bonus content on Orbit's newly launched True Crime Clubhouse,

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00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 1: our subscription channel on Apple Podcasts. It's only two ninety

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Speaker 1: nine a month.