WEBVTT - Interview Only w/ Bob Spitz - What Makes The Rolling Stones “The World’s Greatest Rock Band” 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.360 This episode of the Chuck Todcast is brought to you 0:00:02.400 --> 0:00:06.240 by Wild Grain. Wild Grain is the first bake from 0:00:06.400 --> 0:00:11.280 frozen subscription box for sour dough breads, arteasonal pastries, and 0:00:11.320 --> 0:00:14.800 fresh pastas, plus all the items conveniently baked in twenty 0:00:14.800 --> 0:00:18.759 five minutes or less. Unlike many store brought options, Wild 0:00:18.840 --> 0:00:21.880 Grain uses some simple ingredients you can pronounce and a 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:25.480 slow fermentation process that can be a lot easier on 0:00:25.520 --> 0:00:28.080 your belly, little gut health there right, and richer in 0:00:28.200 --> 0:00:32.600 nutrients antioxidants. There's also no preservatives and no shortcuts. The 0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:35.800 Wild Grain boxes are fully customizable. 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Come on 0:01:17.480 --> 0:01:20.840 when you go to wildgrain dot com slash podcast to 0:01:20.880 --> 0:01:23.880 start your subscription today. That's thirty dollars off your first 0:01:23.880 --> 0:01:27.240 box and free croissants for life when you visit wildgrain 0:01:27.319 --> 0:01:30.600 dot com slash podcast, or simply use the promo code 0:01:30.760 --> 0:01:35.360 podcast at checkout. This is a sponsor I absolutely embrace, 0:01:35.560 --> 0:01:41.280 so use that code well. The beauty of being in 0:01:41.959 --> 0:01:44.240 the world of independent media these days, into my own 0:01:44.280 --> 0:01:47.960 podcast is that guess what. Sometimes I'm gonna do interviews 0:01:47.960 --> 0:01:52.200 and things that just interest me and my generation, if 0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:56.440 you will, But also what I do think, frankly, what 0:01:56.520 --> 0:02:00.720 cuts across cultural lines. And there's no sort of bigger 0:02:00.800 --> 0:02:04.040 cultural touchstone for those of us of a certain age, 0:02:04.160 --> 0:02:06.480 And I'll get to that in a minute. Then the 0:02:06.520 --> 0:02:11.520 Rolling Stones, And there's a terrific new biography. It's not 0:02:11.600 --> 0:02:14.760 that it's not it's not then it's not as conventional 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:16.880 of a of a rock band biography as you might 0:02:16.919 --> 0:02:19.519 be used to reading. This one's by Bob Spitz. He's 0:02:19.520 --> 0:02:23.800 my guest today. It's it's fantastic. It's sort of it is. 0:02:24.400 --> 0:02:26.799 It's just it's not fan service. And I don't mean 0:02:26.840 --> 0:02:30.040 that it doesn't respect everything that the Stones have done 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:33.640 and all that, but it really is sort of trying 0:02:33.720 --> 0:02:37.160 to tell the story. And I think answer a question 0:02:37.240 --> 0:02:40.720 that I have still in my head today is who 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:43.600 are the Rolling Stones and what are they now? What 0:02:43.760 --> 0:02:46.200 have they been? What did they want to be? And 0:02:46.280 --> 0:02:51.359 I say this, they're releasing a punk rock album almost 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:54.000 at the time. It's almost as if Bob you your 0:02:54.040 --> 0:02:58.000 biography and they're focus on releasing new music when hand 0:02:58.000 --> 0:02:58.600 in hand. 0:02:58.720 --> 0:03:01.240 Yeah, they're doing this form Chuck, I mean, I'm so 0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:02.480 I'm so poised. 0:03:03.040 --> 0:03:05.280 I mean, in all seriousness, right when you found out 0:03:05.280 --> 0:03:07.080 they were released in new music and you have this 0:03:07.160 --> 0:03:09.359 coming out, I mean, you're at least your publisher must 0:03:09.360 --> 0:03:10.000 be ecstatic. 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:12.680 Well, well, you're doing handstands here in the apartment, so 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:14.960 everything worked out great for us. 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:18.399 So let's just talk. Look, you've written biographies about other 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:22.880 rock bands. The beauty of this one is ever is well, 0:03:23.120 --> 0:03:26.880 not everybody's alive, but the key figures are alive. 0:03:27.080 --> 0:03:27.280 Right. 0:03:27.320 --> 0:03:29.960 The Beatles is a tough one because you know, one 0:03:30.000 --> 0:03:33.840 of the most important parts with John Lennon was was 0:03:33.840 --> 0:03:36.920 was was you were getting them through his spouse. I 0:03:36.920 --> 0:03:39.000 guess it's probably the fairest way to talk about it. 0:03:39.800 --> 0:03:42.840 So let me just say, how long have you been 0:03:42.880 --> 0:03:45.280 thinking about this? And and and when did when did 0:03:45.320 --> 0:03:47.000 you know you had the right frame. 0:03:47.440 --> 0:03:49.800 To write this book? Chuck? I mean, you know, I 0:03:49.800 --> 0:03:53.800 had written the Bob Dylan biography. I got to the 0:03:53.840 --> 0:03:58.080 Beatles in the nick of time. I did read Zeppe One. 0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:02.720 There was only one band. It was completing Mount Rushmore, 0:04:02.760 --> 0:04:06.120 and and it really give me a pause because the 0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:09.760 other bands had been together for maybe ten years, and 0:04:09.800 --> 0:04:13.160 so it was a nice concise story. But this was 0:04:13.200 --> 0:04:18.600 a sixty five year honesty. And so you know, I 0:04:18.640 --> 0:04:20.760 have to think long and hard about it and how 0:04:20.839 --> 0:04:23.320 I would be able to tell that story in any 0:04:23.480 --> 0:04:25.200 kind of a given page count. 0:04:25.880 --> 0:04:29.320 Well, and you also had two of the biggest names. 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:31.560 They've told their own versions of this story. I mean, 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:35.560 I mean, I'm sorry. The Mick Jagger memoir was something else, right, 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:37.279 we learned a lot more. Actually there was not, I 0:04:37.279 --> 0:04:41.000 mean the exees me, not the Jagger Keith Richards. Sorry, 0:04:41.040 --> 0:04:44.160 I was conflating and I didn't mean to Keith Richards 0:04:44.200 --> 0:04:48.480 memoir was something else. I mean, how you know, I'm 0:04:49.120 --> 0:04:52.479 and Jagger's been in charge of his story, uh for 0:04:52.560 --> 0:04:56.440 quite a bit. So was that a challenge a help both? 0:04:56.960 --> 0:04:58.760 No, it was, it was It was a great help. 0:04:59.080 --> 0:05:02.200 I mean, look, Keith wrote a fabulous book. That guy 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:04.640 pulled no punches. I was shocked. 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:06.240 I didn't think that was the book we get out 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:06.560 of Keith. 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:10.680 Yeah, he's completely unshouldered, you know, happy to tell you 0:05:10.720 --> 0:05:14.560 anything you ask him. But that book is a myopic book. 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:17.239 It's one man's view of what was happening at the time. 0:05:17.560 --> 0:05:20.839 And I felt that the Stones were part of our 0:05:20.880 --> 0:05:24.880 lives enough that they needed a really objective book, say 0:05:25.200 --> 0:05:28.440 the way Robert Carroll might write about Lyndon Johnson. So 0:05:28.560 --> 0:05:30.880 that meant that I had to talk to, you know, 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:34.599 two hundred people who were colleagues of theirs, friends of theirs, 0:05:34.839 --> 0:05:38.920 family members, wives ex wives, and really trying to put 0:05:38.960 --> 0:05:42.800 the story together and at the same time give it 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:46.240 a narrative so that you weren't going to be bogged 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:47.680 down in it, you were going to want to turn 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:50.040 the pages. And that was my biggest challenge. 0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:52.920 No, and I think trying to, you know, get at 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:57.240 what they're trying to. I mean, you know, I feel 0:05:57.320 --> 0:06:00.479 like you tackled this like a person rather you know 0:06:00.480 --> 0:06:03.920 that here you're it's a group that's also its own entity, right. 0:06:04.080 --> 0:06:07.120 It is its own entity. And and really the entity 0:06:07.360 --> 0:06:12.640 is Keith and Mick, you know, Uh, the entire enterprise 0:06:12.720 --> 0:06:16.680 depends on their rapport. And that really, you know, is 0:06:16.720 --> 0:06:20.960 something to look at. All groups that I've considered writing 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:25.000 about dissolved after a number of years, you know it was. 0:06:25.000 --> 0:06:27.960 That actually is what makes it compelling as a journalist. 0:06:28.240 --> 0:06:31.599 What went wrong? Why did it end? And in fact, 0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:34.800 it's why somebody wants to buy the book, you know, 0:06:35.440 --> 0:06:37.839 you know constant when why won't let Zeppelin, you know, 0:06:37.880 --> 0:06:40.960 get together? Why couldn't you Jason Bonham, you know, be 0:06:41.040 --> 0:06:44.760 the be the glue? What what happened between Jimmy and Robert? 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:44.960 Right? 0:06:45.080 --> 0:06:50.000 Like it is with the Stones, you didn't have that 0:06:50.120 --> 0:06:53.440 they and I you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do something. 0:06:54.880 --> 0:06:59.080 There's you know, the Stones. It's funny that you did 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:01.080 them for right, Like, if you think about it, right, 0:07:01.200 --> 0:07:06.920 Dylan led Zeppelin, the Beatles all felt more innovative than 0:07:06.960 --> 0:07:10.920 the Stones, and yet the Stones endurance is what's made 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:11.640 them innovative. 0:07:12.040 --> 0:07:15.560 Well, absolutely, they're endurance. But you know, the Stones, what 0:07:15.600 --> 0:07:19.080 the Stones gave us is rock and roll. The Beatles 0:07:19.440 --> 0:07:22.640 at the time the Stones came about, We're doing two 0:07:22.680 --> 0:07:25.480 and a half minute pop songs for girls. You know. 0:07:25.560 --> 0:07:28.680 It developed into much more than that, of course, but 0:07:28.720 --> 0:07:31.960 the Stones did something different. They took the Blues and 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:35.080 they hot wired it and they gave us a rock 0:07:35.120 --> 0:07:38.920 and roll sound that is the foundation of everything that 0:07:38.960 --> 0:07:42.600 came after it. It was a garage band sound, and 0:07:42.640 --> 0:07:45.880 that's what everybody built on. That's what led Zeppelin build on. 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:49.360 I mean, Fleetwood, Mac build on. Everybody built on that 0:07:50.200 --> 0:07:53.040 kind of garage band sound. And I think, you know, 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:55.880 everybody was calling the Stones the greatest rock and roll 0:07:55.920 --> 0:07:59.960 band of all time. I shied away from that a confession, 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:03.440 and I was a Beatles guy in that great debate. 0:08:03.960 --> 0:08:06.280 This feels like Lebron versus Jordan, by the way. 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:10.920 Yeah, exactly right. But the truth of the matter is 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:15.320 the Stones really laid the groundwork for all of this 0:08:15.520 --> 0:08:18.640 that came afterwards, and I was fascinated to watch how 0:08:18.680 --> 0:08:21.920 they did it. You know, not you mentioned punk before, Yes, 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:27.440 the Stones The Stones survived disco, they survived punk, they 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:32.199 survived grunge. All those people passed by the wayside. Mick 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:35.400 and Keith are eighty three years old and they're about 0:08:35.400 --> 0:08:36.480 to go on tour again. 0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:40.360 Let's go to the issue of rock and roll. So 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:44.679 what is rock and roll now? And it's and to 0:08:44.720 --> 0:08:47.880 me this debate is always more intriguing to me right 0:08:47.920 --> 0:08:50.120 after you have the rock and Roll Hall of Fame 0:08:50.720 --> 0:08:54.079 nominees and all this stuff, and you're like, wait, we've 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:57.560 now defined rock and roll as just countercultural, that it's 0:08:57.600 --> 0:08:59.480 more of a vibe than a sound. 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:02.480 There isn't even rock and roll these days. I mean 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:05.640 what the kids are making today. They're not music makers. 0:09:05.679 --> 0:09:12.199 They're producers, they're performers. They're not in control in the studio. 0:09:12.320 --> 0:09:15.520 They're not writing you know, original. 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:17.640 And electric guitar Bob, I knowess it. 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:20.280 I think the only person who's out there, you know, 0:09:20.400 --> 0:09:25.560 making rock and roll is Bruce Springston. And aside from that, I. 0:09:25.559 --> 0:09:29.080 Would argue there is some country that is that is 0:09:29.120 --> 0:09:31.680 called country that when I hear it, it sounds more 0:09:31.720 --> 0:09:34.200 like that it's been inspired by rock. 0:09:35.080 --> 0:09:39.840 Yeah, probably true, Chuck, But but you know what, my 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:44.360 daughter who's thirty two, listens to the music that you 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:47.080 know I turn off, of course, the same way my 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:51.040 parents turned off Elvis what I will. But you know 0:09:51.160 --> 0:09:55.120 she she listens to people like BTS and and Taylor 0:09:55.280 --> 0:10:00.760 Swift and they're they're doing something different. Do I like it? Yeah, 0:10:00.800 --> 0:10:04.480 it's not for me. It's time for me to step aside. 0:10:04.640 --> 0:10:09.400 Like Joe Biden, I'm going out. Well. 0:10:09.400 --> 0:10:14.120 I only asked that because if if rock and roll 0:10:14.200 --> 0:10:17.760 had it continued to evolve, would there be room for 0:10:17.840 --> 0:10:18.559 the Stone still? 0:10:19.800 --> 0:10:23.400 I think so? Yeah. You know, look, people still go 0:10:23.480 --> 0:10:26.679 to Stone's concerts, and when you hear those opening chords 0:10:26.720 --> 0:10:30.680 to start Me Up or Jumping Jack Flash or Brown 0:10:30.760 --> 0:10:34.600 Sugar or Satisfaction, those three. 0:10:34.559 --> 0:10:36.000 I think I was just going to say, I think 0:10:36.040 --> 0:10:39.920 I've been to three of those three. I think I've 0:10:40.080 --> 0:10:42.200 probably been in like ten Stones concerts, and I think 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:47.079 three of those songs have started multiple versions of Stone's concert. 0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:50.920 And you can't get off your you have to get 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:53.680 off your seat. I mean, it doesn't matter if you're 0:10:53.679 --> 0:10:57.600 a BTS fan or you know you're you're a country fan. 0:10:58.040 --> 0:11:01.880 Those Stones songs are killers, and that's what keeps that 0:11:01.880 --> 0:11:05.200 that music alive and keeps them going. Plus, you know, 0:11:05.520 --> 0:11:09.199 those songs are kind of rebellious. They have that arrogance 0:11:09.360 --> 0:11:15.160 attached to them, and every generation adopts to that. So 0:11:15.240 --> 0:11:19.120 I I kind of understand how they sustained all this career. 0:11:20.400 --> 0:11:22.960 One thing to me that seemed different, and you tell 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:25.480 me and push back if you think this is wrong. 0:11:25.480 --> 0:11:27.280 I don't think you'll be shy about that, which is 0:11:28.720 --> 0:11:31.400 sometimes I've felt as if the Stones didn't have anything 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:34.040 to say, they were just more interested in their music. 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:37.160 And I think this would probably be what John Lennon 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:40.200 would say, right, And maybe I'm channeling that. But you know, 0:11:40.440 --> 0:11:42.600 where the Beatles, there was always something they were trying 0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:46.080 to say. Even led Zeppelin at times, you know, they 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:50.120 were trying to say, I say this, I think Brown 0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:56.200 Sugar is an important cultural song that that that that 0:11:56.200 --> 0:11:58.960 that did matter for interracial relationships at a time when 0:11:58.960 --> 0:12:02.040 it was ill illegal in many states in this country. 0:12:02.080 --> 0:12:04.600 So I don't want to say they never were quote 0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:08.840 unquote political, but I've never they were, certainly less so 0:12:08.920 --> 0:12:10.680 than Dylan were the Beatles, right. 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:13.520 Well, they flirted with it, you know, they did straight 0:12:13.600 --> 0:12:17.480 fighting man, and Nick thought that was you know, a 0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:21.520 real revolutionary take and then they kind of decided not 0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:24.640 to do that anymore. So, you know they I think 0:12:24.640 --> 0:12:26.880 they put that beside them and then they started to 0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:30.840 make straightforward rock and roll. Their lives got in the way, 0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:33.959 you know. Then these are guys who grew up fast 0:12:34.559 --> 0:12:39.560 and grew up hard, and they are they are just 0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:41.880 consummate rock and rollers. They just want to They just 0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:44.800 want to play music. That's it. I don't think that 0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:49.839 they really think too much about any kind of message. 0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:52.200 Well, and it's funny. I think maybe that's what makes 0:12:52.240 --> 0:12:56.600 them endures. 0:12:55.440 --> 0:12:59.800 Yes, exactly, because they they're not taking a stand right. 0:12:59.800 --> 0:13:02.600 And they're well, they're also not trapped in a moment 0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:05.640 in time even though you I think, let me ask 0:13:05.679 --> 0:13:08.520 you this, do you think they could have they would 0:13:08.520 --> 0:13:13.280 have if they needed nineteen fifties and sixties post war 0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:15.680 Britain's culture in order to thrive. 0:13:16.400 --> 0:13:19.720 Oh, absolutely, no doubt about it. Look, it was a 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:26.400 rebellious music that they were making. They were supposed to toe 0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:29.920 the line coming out of World War Two. All these 0:13:29.960 --> 0:13:34.080 guys were groomed if they weren't going to college like 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:37.800 Nick was, but people like Keith were destined to work 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:42.320 as klirks for the railroad or in a factory until 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:46.360 art schools came about, and that was the foment of 0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:50.240 all this music, all this thought, those art schools where 0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:54.000 the kids were just bringing their guitars in and making music, 0:13:54.040 --> 0:13:59.760 and they rebelled against that English you know, that tired 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:02.640 English society, and the music did it. 0:14:06.960 --> 0:14:09.720 Let's talk about was it a rivalry with the Beatles. 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:13.560 And not in the least. No. I mean, these guys 0:14:13.600 --> 0:14:16.400 loved each other. They were great. The Stones came to 0:14:16.480 --> 0:14:19.600 see the Beatles. Well the other way around, I'm sorry. 0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:22.760 The Beatles came to see the Stones when they were 0:14:22.800 --> 0:14:26.080 just starting out in the Crawdaddy Club, and they walked 0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:30.760 in in black leather jackets and parted the crowd and 0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:35.360 stood right in front of the stage as the Stones performed, 0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:38.120 and the Stones looked down and there were there were 0:14:38.120 --> 0:14:42.400 the four Beatles, but they all went back to this 0:14:42.760 --> 0:14:46.000 hovel that the Stones lived in and forged a friendship 0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:49.440 that lasted for as long as the Beatles lasted. When 0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:53.520 the Stones couldn't make a hit after their first song 0:14:53.640 --> 0:14:56.520 came out, who bailed them out? Well, the Beatles bailed 0:14:56.520 --> 0:14:59.040 them out. John and Paul came into the studio and 0:14:59.520 --> 0:15:01.560 wrote I Want to Be Your Man, and the Stones 0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:04.840 have their first record, and they were friends throughout their 0:15:04.960 --> 0:15:09.680 entire career. They socialized together, they rooted for each other. 0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:12.880 They made sure they didn't release albums at the same time. 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:16.960 At one point, I guess in the late sixties, Paul 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:21.240 McCartney and Mick Jagger got together over at beer and 0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:24.200 they decided that they were going to throw in together. 0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:28.840 It would be the greatest company in the world. Yeah. 0:15:29.000 --> 0:15:30.760 I wrote about it in the book because it was 0:15:30.840 --> 0:15:34.640 a kind of a novel situation that people hadn't heard 0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:40.000 about before. And Paul leased a brewery in Camden Town 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:43.440 and it was going to be Beatleston's headquarters and they 0:15:43.440 --> 0:15:45.920 were going to open a hotel, have their own studio. 0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:49.600 My goodness, sounds so very twenty first century of them. 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:52.440 I mean, that's a visionary I mean, by the way, 0:15:52.480 --> 0:15:54.440 you probably could start that today and you'd have a 0:15:54.440 --> 0:15:56.720 whole bunch of baby boomers wanting to vacation there. 0:15:57.000 --> 0:15:59.880 You bet their own record label. It would all be together. 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:03.600 And I guess, you know, Alan Klein kind of threw 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:07.440 the hand grenade in and blew it up. But for 0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:11.280 a while, they both wanted to do it, and who 0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:14.640 better than Mick and Keith Keith Mick and Paul. Paul 0:16:14.920 --> 0:16:18.040 was the guy who kep pushing Beatles Beatles, keep the 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:22.640 Beatles together? And Mick who was really the brains behind 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:27.360 the rolling Stoney Chuck so interesting that after nineteen sixty 0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:31.920 seven the Stones never have another manager. Who's their manager? 0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:35.280 It's Mick, right, Mick is their manager. He negotiates every 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:41.680 record contract, every concert tour with every promoter, designs the stage, 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:46.400 works out the merchandising, negotiates for all of their travel, 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:48.880 and tells the guys what they're going to do. It 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:53.920 is that London School of Economics three semesters never gone 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:57.600 through it that you know, it's fantastic. I mean the 0:16:57.640 --> 0:17:02.800 guy is other Roadblade. 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Well, both Paul and Mick, where I guess, 0:18:58.600 --> 0:19:00.920 had a little bit more of a you know, they 0:19:02.080 --> 0:19:03.840 let me and let me ask you this way. Without 0:19:03.840 --> 0:19:06.000 Paul and mickwould either the Beatles or the Stones been 0:19:06.040 --> 0:19:07.119 financially successful? 0:19:07.200 --> 0:19:11.639 Yeah, maybe not, that's that's a good question. Paul was 0:19:11.680 --> 0:19:15.160 the one who pushed back against Brian Epstein's terrible deals, 0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:19.600 brought his father in law and to negotiate new contracts. 0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:20.360 Uh. 0:19:20.400 --> 0:19:23.439 And of course Mick did the same thing. Unfortunately he 0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:26.600 brought Alan Kleinen and for a while it looked good, 0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:28.680 but then it didn't look good and he got rid 0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:31.399 of them. But the two of them really were the 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:34.600 guys who kept those groups financially fluid. 0:19:37.920 --> 0:19:44.360 Mick and Keith. Ah, Yes, how does this relationship survive? 0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:48.840 Because it it wasn't It's not. I mean, they I 0:19:48.840 --> 0:19:52.600 don't want to say oil and water, but there's it. 0:19:52.600 --> 0:19:55.280 It does seem like an odd pairing. The more you 0:19:55.359 --> 0:19:56.640 learn about both of them. 0:19:56.840 --> 0:20:00.600 Look, it's a marriage, and sometimes it's like who's afraid 0:20:00.640 --> 0:20:05.399 of Virginia Woolf, you know, and sometimes it's good. The 0:20:06.520 --> 0:20:11.360 great thing about their relationship is that they have different tasks. 0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:16.520 You know. Mick is the libidinous peacock, the showman, and 0:20:16.640 --> 0:20:23.119 Keith is the riffmaster, and they don't compete, they really don't. 0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:25.920 Keith is happy to let Mick be the front man, 0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:29.920 and for most of the time when they're on the road, 0:20:30.280 --> 0:20:33.479 when they're working, the bad boys stay out of trouble. 0:20:33.960 --> 0:20:37.240 But there was that period in the mid nineties when 0:20:37.280 --> 0:20:40.199 it almost fell apart when Mick decided he was going 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:43.880 to make a solo album and tour without the Stones 0:20:43.920 --> 0:20:49.920 but sing Stones songs, and Keith was furious and he 0:20:50.080 --> 0:20:53.320 wanted to blow up the Stones. At that time, those 0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:58.119 guys didn't speak. Keith's slagged Mick off and the press 0:20:58.600 --> 0:21:02.480 he referred to him as I remember that. Yeah, he 0:21:02.800 --> 0:21:06.720 always referred to him as her Majesty or Brenda, because 0:21:07.040 --> 0:21:10.120 Keith had walked past a bookstore on Rude Rivelli in 0:21:10.200 --> 0:21:13.160 Paris and there was a fiction book by a woman 0:21:13.240 --> 0:21:18.119 named Brenda Jagger, so became Brenda all the time. But 0:21:18.280 --> 0:21:22.520 you know, when they weren't talking to each other, when 0:21:22.680 --> 0:21:26.159 it looked like it was all going to be rend asunder, 0:21:27.240 --> 0:21:29.880 Keith married Patty Hanson, and who stands up for him? 0:21:30.480 --> 0:21:33.720 Nick stands up for him as best man, So you know, 0:21:33.840 --> 0:21:36.080 go figure. I mean, these guys shouldn't have been in 0:21:36.119 --> 0:21:40.760 the same cage together, but they continue to find a 0:21:40.800 --> 0:21:44.080 way to work together. And it's the music that keeps 0:21:44.119 --> 0:21:49.720 them going. These guys loved to play, They love to perform. 0:21:50.000 --> 0:21:53.320 I saw them at Sofi Stadium in California about a 0:21:53.359 --> 0:21:56.080 year and a half ago, and there was a presentium 0:21:56.119 --> 0:21:59.520 out from the stage jump that was at least two 0:21:59.520 --> 0:22:04.199 blocks and Mick danced on that thing for two and 0:22:04.200 --> 0:22:06.200 a half hours. And I had to jab my wife's 0:22:06.200 --> 0:22:08.159 in the ribs and say, you're go get it an 0:22:08.200 --> 0:22:11.560 eighty two year old man, I am. 0:22:11.840 --> 0:22:16.320 It's always a marvel at at watching Nick at a concert. Look, 0:22:16.560 --> 0:22:19.320 I will confess. So my first Stones concert was nineteen 0:22:19.359 --> 0:22:23.639 eighty nine. It was Steel Wheels and my friends and 0:22:23.720 --> 0:22:26.960 I were really excited because the opening band was going 0:22:27.000 --> 0:22:29.920 to be Living Color on our side of the coast. 0:22:30.240 --> 0:22:33.560 It was a clever thing the Stones did, and you know, 0:22:33.600 --> 0:22:34.760 I want to talk to you about this sort of 0:22:34.800 --> 0:22:37.000 how they would help other bands. I think it was 0:22:37.040 --> 0:22:40.240 Guns n' Roses was the West Coast opening act. Really 0:22:40.280 --> 0:22:43.720 Living Color was the East Coast opening act. And my 0:22:43.760 --> 0:22:46.639 friends and I we loved Living Colors a little, you know. 0:22:46.840 --> 0:22:51.800 It was they were a unique thing and African American 0:22:51.880 --> 0:22:56.159 rock band. There wasn't a lot in that space and 0:22:58.200 --> 0:23:01.240 at the time my feelings on the Stones and then 0:23:01.280 --> 0:23:07.240 you see their performance, and to see The Stones in 0:23:07.320 --> 0:23:10.159 concert is to finally appreciate them in a way that 0:23:10.920 --> 0:23:14.000 no album, no listening to them on the radio like 0:23:14.359 --> 0:23:20.960 they were, I think are better as an experience than 0:23:21.160 --> 0:23:23.480 just simply showing up in your music feed. 0:23:24.160 --> 0:23:26.879 Oh, I couldn't agree with you more. They know how 0:23:26.920 --> 0:23:31.680 to electrify an audience. That's always been their secret. And 0:23:31.720 --> 0:23:35.240 you know it's those rifts that Keith comes up with 0:23:35.600 --> 0:23:39.960 that just they're ferocious and the minute, the minute the 0:23:40.080 --> 0:23:46.080