Speaker 1: Hi, get everybody. I'm Dan Horde and thanks for downloading
Speaker 1: The Bengals Booth Podcast The WHOA Come with Me Now. Addition,
Speaker 1: as the Bengals look to pick up where they left
Speaker 1: off before the bye and begin the second half of
Speaker 1: the season with a road win in Pittsburgh coming up,
Speaker 1: I'll talk to Jesse Bates about how important a bye
Speaker 1: week really is to an NFL player's physical and emotional
Speaker 1: well being. I'll also talk to two NFL experts, Field
Speaker 1: Yates from ESPN and Tyler Dunn from golongtd dot com
Speaker 1: about the bengals chances of making a second half run. Then,
Speaker 1: and this week's Know the Faux Segment, Steelers pregame host
Speaker 1: Tim Bens tells us all about Pittsburgh's rookie quarterback Kenny Pickt.
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Speaker 1: the official healthcare provider of the Bengals. With more than
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Speaker 1: quick reminder that you could have the latest edition of
Speaker 1: this podcast delivered right to your phone, tablet, or computer
Speaker 1: by subscribing wherever you get your podcasts. It's the greatest
Speaker 1: thing since a gas fireplace. This is a rare repeat edition,
Speaker 1: but it immediately came to mind with a return of
Speaker 1: winter weather to Cincinnati. When we moved into our home,
Speaker 1: the family room included a gas fireplace, and when it
Speaker 1: gets cold, it's fantastic. With the flick of a button,
Speaker 1: it heats up the room in a matter of minutes
Speaker 1: and looks great with orange yellow flames that dance around
Speaker 1: realistic looking logs. And that's with minimal clean up, no smoke,
Speaker 1: and no need for firewood. So here's to having a
Speaker 1: gas fireplace, especially when it with the house. Now let's
Speaker 1: get to football, beginning with my conversation with fifth year
Speaker 1: safety Jesse Bates. Jesse, the NFL season is an absolute grind.
Speaker 1: You get here early in the morning. There are hours
Speaker 1: worth of meetings that walk throughs the practices all leading
Speaker 1: up to that car wreck that you play in every Sunday.
Speaker 1: You get five days off during the bye. What to
Speaker 1: do for your mind and body? It kind of less.
Speaker 1: You take a deep breath, can focus a little bit
Speaker 1: on your personal side of your life. I mean, we
Speaker 1: are human beings. Even though we work hours and hours
Speaker 1: of playing a game of football, there's still a lot
Speaker 1: of personal stuff that guys go through. Unfortunately, the you know,
Speaker 1: the NFL season, it just jumps on you. I mean
Speaker 1: weekend and week out. You go getting a car wreck
Speaker 1: on Sunday and then you turn around on Monday, have
Speaker 1: to watch the film review and flush everything and then restart.
Speaker 1: So I think it's really good, um that we had
Speaker 1: it back to back years um, in the middle of
Speaker 1: the season, just to refresh our minds, um, and come
Speaker 1: back get ready for a long season in the second half.
Speaker 1: So we're excited for Can you turn your brain off
Speaker 1: from NFL football? Are you constantly drifting thinking of the
Speaker 1: next game, thinking of the previous game, etc. Yeah? Um,
Speaker 1: something that I do I always do, like a pre
Speaker 1: like a mid season review. UM. I asked a bunch
Speaker 1: of my you know, former coaches and stuff just to
Speaker 1: give me a review of my first couple first weeks
Speaker 1: of the season and then kind of review that. Like
Speaker 1: I said, you can't really turn it off. Um, it's
Speaker 1: hard to turn it off and then not really turn
Speaker 1: it off. So I stay tuned in. UM. I was
Speaker 1: able to watch some football as well this weekend, which
Speaker 1: is nice to see what other guys are doing around
Speaker 1: the league. So, UM, yeah, you turn it off, but
Speaker 1: at the same time, you don't. We're visiting the Jesse
Speaker 1: Bates for the second straight year. The team's five and
Speaker 1: four with eight games to go. Does it feel the
Speaker 1: same or different? Um? It feels very similar, just in
Speaker 1: terms of the standings. UM. How everybody's kind of it
Speaker 1: seems like you're you're out. People are kind of hanging
Speaker 1: around around week ten and then people separate in that
Speaker 1: second half of the season. UM. Like I've been repeating,
Speaker 1: you know, anytime you play and playing in football, like
Speaker 1: my high schools in Semi State right now, you know
Speaker 1: college is starting to getting ready for those bowl games,
Speaker 1: conference games and stuff like that. You want to be
Speaker 1: able to play your best football, UM on every level.
Speaker 1: UM in the second half of the season November December
Speaker 1: for us, it's all the way up until February. So UM.
Speaker 1: One thing is good is that we had a lot
Speaker 1: of the core guys back from last year, so that
Speaker 1: they've had a lot of experience, and even the guys
Speaker 1: that we've brought in they know what a playoff run
Speaker 1: it feels like. So, UM, I think we play our
Speaker 1: best ball when you know when it really matters. UM,
Speaker 1: I know, I sure do. Unfortunately, one core guy that
Speaker 1: you won't have for the rest of this year is
Speaker 1: Chittabay Wog. You can't run replace him. You can't find
Speaker 1: a top five corner on the street in the secondary room.
Speaker 1: What do you guys say about how you overcome the
Speaker 1: loss of Chittabay Wuge. Yeah, I think the biggest part is, um,
Speaker 1: when you when you lose a key player like that,
Speaker 1: you don't only lose them physically out there on the field,
Speaker 1: but as far as just him asking questions in the
Speaker 1: in the meeting rooms. UM, I think every rookie sits
Speaker 1: in the front row, um, in our meeting room, so
Speaker 1: they're able to, you know, get some of those answers
Speaker 1: that they're may be scared to ask. Um. But Cheeto
Speaker 1: has done an outstanding job of just getting those guys
Speaker 1: up to speed. So I think the main thing is,
Speaker 1: like I said, you can't really replace them physically, UM,
Speaker 1: But I think the preparation part of it. UM. It
Speaker 1: kind of leans on me and Van Mike Hilton as
Speaker 1: well to kind of get those guys settled down and um,
Speaker 1: let them know that we're still playing football. We got
Speaker 1: we got their back, just like if Cheeto was in there.
Speaker 1: So um, but yeah, it's hard to talk about Cheeto
Speaker 1: because I know how hard he works, how much he
Speaker 1: puts into this game, and for him to have that
Speaker 1: unfortunate injury kind of sucks. But um, it's it's part
Speaker 1: of the gain. Your lockers are next to each other.
Speaker 1: How tight is that bond? Yeah, we're me and Cheetoh uh,
Speaker 1: it's way beyond football. Um, you know, we're locker mates.
Speaker 1: I've known them before he even got here a little bit.
Speaker 1: One of my best friends play with him in Dallas. So, um,
Speaker 1: you know, I've been able to experience what a real
Speaker 1: vet looks like in the locker room. And I always
Speaker 1: brag about Cheeto, like maybe it's just a couple of
Speaker 1: days where I don't want to talk to anybody, but
Speaker 1: cheetos the same guy every single day, and it's just
Speaker 1: talks a lot about just who he is, where he
Speaker 1: comes from, his foundation. Um, I guess I got emotional
Speaker 1: just seeing him out there just laying down. I mean,
Speaker 1: he wouldn't even lay down on the field, I'm like, Cheetah,
Speaker 1: lay down on the ground. You're you know, you're hurt. Um,
Speaker 1: he just jumped off and you know, jumping off on
Speaker 1: one knee with a torn a cel. You don't see
Speaker 1: that lot. So it just says a lot about him.
Speaker 1: We're chatting with Jesse Bates. Louianna Rumo has gained a reputation,
Speaker 1: shouldn't for being a mad scientist for some of his
Speaker 1: defensive schemes. None of it works if you and Von
Speaker 1: don't communicate the way that you do. Can you describe
Speaker 1: the relationship between Lou, you and Vin. Yeah, Um, Coach
Speaker 1: Lou has a really open relationship with me Von. We're
Speaker 1: able to talk about some funny things, you know, off
Speaker 1: the field, outside of the locker room. Um, and then
Speaker 1: when we talk about, you know, game specific stuff. I
Speaker 1: think he has a lot of confidence and U two
Speaker 1: really smart safeties, two safeties that have seen a lot, Um,
Speaker 1: and then the bond with me and Vaughn. It helps
Speaker 1: as well, just having that chemistry, being able to be
Speaker 1: on the same page as coach Lou. When he's calling
Speaker 1: a call, why is he calling it? Make sure you
Speaker 1: get the young guys lined up? Stuff like that. So, Um,
Speaker 1: me and Von have have grown together. I watched him
Speaker 1: go to work every day in the morning and it
Speaker 1: drives not just me, but the whole team may be better.
Speaker 1: So our relationship is very unique, I think, um, and
Speaker 1: it's maybe it doesn't show on the stat sheet all
Speaker 1: the time, but just being on the same level at
Speaker 1: all times it's really good for our defense. He faced
Speaker 1: the Steelers this week, a rematch of the season opener,
Speaker 1: tough loss. The team had a minus five turnover ratio
Speaker 1: and lound up losing in overtime. Does that one still sting? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that one. I don't think people understood how I'm important
Speaker 1: that those first games are in this season. And then
Speaker 1: it was a divisional game as well, so I think
Speaker 1: we're olling three in our division. So this one would
Speaker 1: be huge, kind of set the tone for who we're
Speaker 1: going to be in the second half of the season.
Speaker 1: And it wouldn't be no better beating up on the
Speaker 1: Steelers again on their home field. So I wish it
Speaker 1: was on primetime, but the four twenty five game will
Speaker 1: be just perfect. Pittsburgh's changed quarterbacks rookie Kenny pick at
Speaker 1: his in first quarterback taken in this year's draft. His
Speaker 1: stats aren't very good so far too touchdowns, eight picks,
Speaker 1: But clearly there's talent there or he wouldn't have been
Speaker 1: a first round draft pick. Is he just making rookie mistakes?
Speaker 1: Is that what explains those numbers? Um? Yeah, I would.
Speaker 1: I would say there's not a lot of opportunities at
Speaker 1: times for him, But yeah, he tries to force it
Speaker 1: a little bit. Um. You know, I kind of down
Speaker 1: talk him a little bit. He did the fake slide
Speaker 1: on Wake Forest Um and the ACC Championship, so I
Speaker 1: gotta get him back at some point for that. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that he's a young quarterback, has a lot
Speaker 1: of talent. He's a playmaker. Um. I think a lot
Speaker 1: of his success comes from when he gets outside the
Speaker 1: pocket and he starts scrambling and stuff like that. But
Speaker 1: you can see that there's some type of chemistry between
Speaker 1: him and fourteen, him and eighty eight UM and even eighteen.
Speaker 1: He tries to get them the ball. And just certain matchups,
Speaker 1: you know, single high, he'll see eighteen or whether that's
Speaker 1: fourteen UM opened up and that's I feel like that's
Speaker 1: where a lot of his success comes from. M So
Speaker 1: it'll be good for us to you know, mix up
Speaker 1: some coverages, disguise some things, and hopefully we can force
Speaker 1: him into some more mistakes. I forgot that the fake
Speaker 1: slide was against wake Forest. They changed the rules because
Speaker 1: of the fake slide. Last thing, there's a story on
Speaker 1: ESPN today looking at the top twenty five free agents
Speaker 1: in next year's class. Naturally, you are on the list.
Speaker 1: When you're drafted, you don't get to pick your team.
Speaker 1: Are you looking forward to being courted, having the opportunity
Speaker 1: to see what's out there? You know, I always have
Speaker 1: to remind myself. My family kind of reminds me all
Speaker 1: the time that you know, you're in the NFL. I
Speaker 1: remember watching you know, Philip Rivers. The Charges were always
Speaker 1: my favorite team just because of who I played for
Speaker 1: during Pop Warners. So just being able to have that
Speaker 1: open market that would be pretty cool. But right now,
Speaker 1: I'm just focused on the present, focus on having as
Speaker 1: much impact as I can where I'm at right now,
Speaker 1: where my feet are, and enjoying this locker room because
Speaker 1: I know there's not a lot of other places that
Speaker 1: are like this locker room, like this city. So um yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm excited for you know that but you know, I
Speaker 1: take here to now and the rest of that will
Speaker 1: fall into place. So, like you said, it's open marketing
Speaker 1: and being able to see what other teams think about you.
Speaker 1: I think that's always pretty cool. Whether I'm leaving here,
Speaker 1: whether I'm staying, I think it's pretty cool. You've been
Speaker 1: a great Bengal. We will savor every game that you
Speaker 1: are wearing orange and black. Trust me, best of luck
Speaker 1: this Sunday. Thanks you Toime. Absolutely, thank you the Bengals.
Speaker 1: Both podcast is brought to you by pay Corps. More
Speaker 1: than twenty nine thousand customers trust Paycorps to help them recruit, pay, engage,
Speaker 1: and retain employees. Learn more at paycor dot com. At
Speaker 1: five and four, The Bengals are currently on the playoff
Speaker 1: bubble in the AFC, where only one team has fewer
Speaker 1: than three losses. That's Kansas City. At seven and two.
Speaker 1: The Dolphins, Titans, Ravens, Jets, and Bills have three losses.
Speaker 1: The Patriots, Chargers, and Bengals have four. It looks like
Speaker 1: it's going to be a wild race to the finish
Speaker 1: and I talked about the bengals chances this week with
Speaker 1: an ESPN analyst who used to be an NFL scout
Speaker 1: with the Patriots and Chiefs. We are joined by NFL
Speaker 1: Insider Field, the Eights from ESPN Field. Let's start big picture.
Speaker 1: The Bengals are five and four after they started this
Speaker 1: season oh and two. Do you see them making a
Speaker 1: run in the second half? I sure do. And I
Speaker 1: know that five and four may not have been where
Speaker 1: we forecasted this team when they went into their buy
Speaker 1: when we were making our predictions when the schedule came
Speaker 1: out all the way back in May. But the Bengals
Speaker 1: probably know this better than most teams. Football and the
Speaker 1: NFL is about how you are playing as you get
Speaker 1: into the cold weather seasons when you can start making
Speaker 1: your Thanksgiving or Christmas holiday plans. And Cincinnati showed that
Speaker 1: last year as they got better and better and better
Speaker 1: literally all the way through the playoffs. And if you
Speaker 1: look at the AFC right now, well, I do believe
Speaker 1: there are a few excellent teams. I don't think the
Speaker 1: depth of the AFC is nearly what we expected it
Speaker 1: to be coming into the season. As you've got teams
Speaker 1: amongst others like Denver, like Las Vegas, like Indianapolis that
Speaker 1: as of this moment do not project to be a
Speaker 1: part of the playoff picture coming into this season. I
Speaker 1: think all three of those teams thought they could win
Speaker 1: their own divisions. So the last time out, Joe Mixon
Speaker 1: had a monster game for Cincinnati two hundred and twenty
Speaker 1: one yards five touchdowns. You tweeted that it was the
Speaker 1: eighth greatest Fantasy performance of all time. How important do
Speaker 1: you think it is for Joe to produce, maybe not
Speaker 1: that well, but to produce more significantly than he had
Speaker 1: been for the rest of the season. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: you take twenty percent of his touchdown production every single
Speaker 1: week going forward and be pretty happy about it. Right,
Speaker 1: But it was important for a handful of reasons. First
Speaker 1: of all, Joe up to that point of the season
Speaker 1: had not had a super efficient year on the ground.
Speaker 1: And as we know, the running game is a byproduct
Speaker 1: not just the running back, but also the offensive line scheme.
Speaker 1: You know, the quarterback involves as well. The way that
Speaker 1: you are able to attack an opposing offense is due
Speaker 1: to who the quarterback is or is not. So I
Speaker 1: don't know that it's just Joe's issue that led to
Speaker 1: the inefficient rushing prior to that game, but it was
Speaker 1: good to see him in the entire offense get going
Speaker 1: in a major way leading into the buy. You would
Speaker 1: think that Joe probably feels much better physically coming out
Speaker 1: of the bye as well, with an extra week to
Speaker 1: rest up. And you know, there are coaches and there
Speaker 1: are numbers that would tell you that balance is not
Speaker 1: important in football. And I think that there are teams
Speaker 1: that are good enough in one phase or the other,
Speaker 1: and it's usually a team that's good enough passing the
Speaker 1: football they don't have to worry as much about running
Speaker 1: the ball. But I do think when you can achieve balance,
Speaker 1: it does have some things that it does unlock. And
Speaker 1: for Cincinnati, while you have a mobile quarterback, you don't
Speaker 1: have a Lamar Jackson type athlete and Joe burrowback there
Speaker 1: where you know if an effective play action passing game
Speaker 1: is rooted in part from a team respecting that. So
Speaker 1: I think there's something to be said for being able
Speaker 1: to run the football the way they did, not quite
Speaker 1: like they did in Week nine, but at least closer
Speaker 1: to where things were in Week nine as opposed to
Speaker 1: the first eight weeks of the season. Let me follow
Speaker 1: up on Joe Burrow. He started poorly after his appen
Speaker 1: deck to me. But now he's up to fourth and
Speaker 1: passer rating fifth in passing yards per game. Where do
Speaker 1: you consider Joe Burrow to be among the hierarchy of
Speaker 1: the great quarterbacks in the NFL. Yeah, it's funny I've
Speaker 1: gotten In the world of fantasy football, which is a
Speaker 1: big part of my world at ESPN, one of the
Speaker 1: most popular topics is weekly rankings. You know, where are
Speaker 1: you ranking this player at this position for the week ahead?
Speaker 1: And I've always believed that sometimes those rankings can be
Speaker 1: a bit excessive, as we might be better suited to
Speaker 1: put players into tiers. And I think that applies to
Speaker 1: quarterback rankings as well. Because there's a group of quarterbacks.
Speaker 1: Let's let's divvy this up, or divide a line between
Speaker 1: the guys that are young, en up and coming still
Speaker 1: like twenty eight, twenty nine and younger versus the guys
Speaker 1: that are in the latter stages of their career. Because
Speaker 1: Tom Brady and Joe Burrow are going to probably you know,
Speaker 1: they might meet once more for the rest of their career.
Speaker 1: Who knows Brady might be done after this season, We
Speaker 1: don't know. But if you look at the guys that
Speaker 1: are twenty eight or twenty nine and younger. I think
Speaker 1: Joe fits into that category of and this applies to
Speaker 1: this year by the way of guys that are like
Speaker 1: no doubt about its centerpiece of your franchise haven't quite
Speaker 1: won either the highest individual accolade of an MVP or
Speaker 1: the highest team accolade of a Super Bowl. But obviously
Speaker 1: Joe is what nine months removed from having played in
Speaker 1: Los Angeles at the Super Bowl, so my view on
Speaker 1: him hasn't changed at all. I think that probably what
Speaker 1: has been reinforced this year is that when times are tough,
Speaker 1: and this is a league of parody, ask any team.
Speaker 1: We saw it on Monday night when the final undefeated
Speaker 1: team went down in the Philadelphia Eagles, that when times
Speaker 1: are tough, you don't have to worry about Joe and
Speaker 1: how he is going to be able to lead the
Speaker 1: entire franchise is It certainly strikes me that while there
Speaker 1: are lots of guys that have been there for longer
Speaker 1: on both sides of the ball, this team goes as
Speaker 1: far as Joe Burrow goes, and his demeanor has continued
Speaker 1: to impress me. It makes him one of the most
Speaker 1: unique players in all of sports. We're visiting the field.
Speaker 1: Yates from ESPN DJ reader is about to come back
Speaker 1: from injury for the Bengals. Jamar Chase could be back
Speaker 1: after one more game on the sidelines. Should have a
Speaker 1: awoojah in the other hand out for the rest of
Speaker 1: the year. Are these injuries the big variable for Cincinnati
Speaker 1: going forward? I think that's a huge part of it
Speaker 1: for sure. And you know, I think in the secondary,
Speaker 1: like the Bengals are probably not going to unearth some
Speaker 1: you know, they're not going to find the next great
Speaker 1: cornerback just out of nowhere on the street right now,
Speaker 1: Like you kind of have what you have. There might
Speaker 1: be some practice squad elevations or guys that have just
Speaker 1: been thrust into larger roles. But my sense is that,
Speaker 1: like the secondary is going to be a lot of
Speaker 1: the players that you've been hearing from throughout the season
Speaker 1: so far, and a veteran safe group certainly helps. And
Speaker 1: I think one of the realities of the NFL is
Speaker 1: that no great secondary is great without a great pass rush,
Speaker 1: and very few great pass rushes look as great as
Speaker 1: they do without good coverage in the back end. So well,
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about the cornerbacks and the responsibility
Speaker 1: of various players in the back end. I think that
Speaker 1: a lot of the work can be offset if Trey
Speaker 1: Hendrickson continues to play at a borderline all pro level.
Speaker 1: And while DJ obviously makes the vast majority of his
Speaker 1: money being one of the best run defenders in the NFL,
Speaker 1: he can certainly impact the integrity of the interior pocket
Speaker 1: and other players up front that have given the Bengals
Speaker 1: coop snaps. I mean, Sam Hubbard continues to be And
Speaker 1: I don't like to use this word too often because
Speaker 1: I think it gets overused, but under appreciated or underrated
Speaker 1: players in the NFL pretty much does everything well and
Speaker 1: that includes rush in the pastor all right, since you
Speaker 1: don't like that word, underappreciated or underrated, I'm going to
Speaker 1: use that word anyway. In another question. Before you got
Speaker 1: into broadcasting, you had a background in scouting. Is do
Speaker 1: Tobin underappreciated or underrated for the job he's done in
Speaker 1: building this roster? I think so, And you know you
Speaker 1: have the Super Bowl run last year that helps validate that.
Speaker 1: And you know it's funny you sometimes don't get enough
Speaker 1: credit when you're making picks near the top of the
Speaker 1: board because people say, like, what else were you supposed
Speaker 1: to do? Are you supposed to give credit to the
Speaker 1: individual who took this generation of prospect, whether it was
Speaker 1: you know, any number of guys that have been tabbed
Speaker 1: the next great thing. And well, I think that certainly
Speaker 1: being closer to the top of the board tends to
Speaker 1: lead to you know, that just the potential of those
Speaker 1: players is higher, so you should be nailing those picks
Speaker 1: a little more frequently. I think that the Bengals have
Speaker 1: done a good job of finding depth. I think they've
Speaker 1: done a good job of finding players in not first
Speaker 1: round structure that have been major contributors for them. And
Speaker 1: you know one thing about Duke and you know, I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't want to speak for him, but my guess
Speaker 1: is that part of what influences our perception of people
Speaker 1: in sports, coaches, players, executives is just how much we
Speaker 1: see of them publicly. And as far as nanimity is concerned,
Speaker 1: Duke probably is in that top class of general managers
Speaker 1: or personnel executives. And that's not a bad thing, by
Speaker 1: the way, that's just how he and how the Bengals
Speaker 1: go about their business. So my feeling is that you know,
Speaker 1: there are coaches that can have you a drinking the
Speaker 1: kool aid a little bit because you see him in
Speaker 1: front of the camera and you start to gravitate towards words. Ultimately,
Speaker 1: I believe in results, and I think that Cincinnati's results
Speaker 1: largely speak for themselves. And this is a franchise has
Speaker 1: had to reshape itself over the past handful of years.
Speaker 1: And while a lot of the offensive pieces that are
Speaker 1: so so great, we're high picks, none more so than
Speaker 1: Joe and Jamar, you know, defensively, that makeover over the
Speaker 1: past couple of years has been this really unique blend
Speaker 1: of not just some really good homegrown talents, but find
Speaker 1: a free agent pickup that if you were to redo it,
Speaker 1: you would say, no, I'm not even considering it. Von
Speaker 1: Bell is kind of an afterthought and free agency hanging
Speaker 1: out for a while, signed a three year heel, has
Speaker 1: been an outstanding player and a team leader. And then
Speaker 1: you know Jenobe before he gets hurt. That was a huge,
Speaker 1: huge signing. It looked like it was going to end
Speaker 1: up being one of the best value signings again in
Speaker 1: the NFL this year. We already talked about Trey Hendrickson.
Speaker 1: Even DJ Reader when he got I think it was
Speaker 1: four years and fifty four million dollars, people were saying,
Speaker 1: who's this guy. Well, it took about a year for
Speaker 1: that contract to look like one of the better values
Speaker 1: in the NFL. So I think that stuff deserves a
Speaker 1: lot of credit. It's not just the home runs you
Speaker 1: hit at the top of the draft board, but also
Speaker 1: finding the right value in free agency, because there is
Speaker 1: a lot of fool's gold in free agency. Every single
Speaker 1: year we see teams undoe mistakes after just one season.
Speaker 1: A couple more questions for field Yates from ESPN. The
Speaker 1: Bengals head to Pittsburgh this Sunday. What do you see
Speaker 1: as a couple of keys to the matchup? I'd say
Speaker 1: that turnovers. And I'm not trying to be obvious, but
Speaker 1: you know, obviously week one that was what undid them.
Speaker 1: Was it five turnovers in the first half? Was it?
Speaker 1: I have five turnovers in total? I know, and it
Speaker 1: was obviously just felt like every play was hitting the
Speaker 1: ball back to Pittsburgh. But that to me is about
Speaker 1: as important as he gets for keys. This Sunday, le
Speaker 1: should take care of the football because the Steelers are
Speaker 1: very very good on defensive t J. Watt is healthy.
Speaker 1: He is healthy, obviously played last week, made a difference.
Speaker 1: They're not dominant like they have been in years past,
Speaker 1: but they have multiple good pass rushers. Alex Highsmith very
Speaker 1: good as well. An offense, though no team has to
Speaker 1: work harder to score than Pittsburgh. This is kind of
Speaker 1: amazing to me. The Steelers have yet to score a
Speaker 1: touchdown of ten yards this season. Every single touchdown they've
Speaker 1: scored has come within the ten yard line. And I
Speaker 1: mean you call like at least one vertical shot. It
Speaker 1: feels like per quarter in Cincinnati when you're on the
Speaker 1: game call. And that's not this kind of offense here.
Speaker 1: They are a grinded out offense, but they are not
Speaker 1: a particularly efficient running game. Nag Harris has not been
Speaker 1: nearly as impactful in the passing game this year as
Speaker 1: he was last season. So this is not the kind
Speaker 1: of game that if you hang thirty, it's not going
Speaker 1: to be a thirty one, thirty one thirty or thirty
Speaker 1: one twenty eight type game. If since he scores thirty
Speaker 1: one on Sunday, it's probably because they've end up winning
Speaker 1: the game by two touchdowns. That was an amazing stat
Speaker 1: final thing for field Yates, the Bengals will break out
Speaker 1: their white Bengal uniforms for the second time. What do
Speaker 1: you think? Love them? Love everything about them. I think
Speaker 1: they're tremendous. I've always felt like they make guys look
Speaker 1: a little bit sleeker, faster, which I know it doesn't
Speaker 1: actually make a difference, but I love them, and I
Speaker 1: will say this is I think the NFL has been
Speaker 1: smart to embrace some of the alternate uniforms this season.
Speaker 1: I think about some of the great uniforms that we
Speaker 1: have seen so far, not just since He's but you know,
Speaker 1: I've seen this for nine ers and the Patriots go
Speaker 1: back to their pat patriot. We've seen the Jets breakout
Speaker 1: and all black helmet, the Panthers break out the all
Speaker 1: black helmet. Some of those that I think are really
Speaker 1: really sharp looks that, you know, if nothing else, at
Speaker 1: least give us up a talk about for the beginning
Speaker 1: portion of a game. Field. This has been great. I
Speaker 1: always appreciate your time. Keep up the great work. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much for having me. I'll utch again soon.
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Speaker 1: Tyler Dunn is the man who runs golongtd dot com
Speaker 1: and I caught up with him this week about his
Speaker 1: latest Bengals related story. Tyler, you have written some great
Speaker 1: profiles about Bengals of players in recent months, including Eli Apple,
Speaker 1: should be a Wouge and Tyler Boyd. Now you have
Speaker 1: turned your attention to a Bengals coach and it's nod
Speaker 1: Zach Taylor. It is not one of the coordinators. It
Speaker 1: is a guy that very few NFL fans have even
Speaker 1: heard of. Tell us who and why you chose him?
Speaker 1: Absolutely well, great to be back, Dan, Thanks so much
Speaker 1: for having me. Dan Pitcher quarterbacks coach. This is really
Speaker 1: a coach I feel like we'll be talking about for
Speaker 1: a long time. And you know, it's always hard to
Speaker 1: figure out. So you have an elite quarterback in the NFL,
Speaker 1: and Joe Burrow and I covered Aaron Rodgers. Josh Allen
Speaker 1: is here in Buffalo. It's always hard to figure out
Speaker 1: how much is the coach really giving this elite talent, right,
Speaker 1: Aaron Rodgers got a lot of people, a lot of jobs.
Speaker 1: You can run down the list if you wanted to.
Speaker 1: Some are better than others. So I've been fired. But
Speaker 1: over time you kind of you kind of see, okay,
Speaker 1: like what did that coach really give that quarterback? Yet
Speaker 1: a lot of times I think that quarterback coach is
Speaker 1: exactly what that quarterback needs at that time. And Dan
Speaker 1: picture really strikes me as that as that coach. This
Speaker 1: is somebody who has such a unique upbringing with where
Speaker 1: he came from in Courtland, New York, and in a
Speaker 1: lot of ways is kind of a kindred, kindred spirit
Speaker 1: to Joe Burrow, where they both have just been immersed
Speaker 1: in the x's and knows at a different level. I
Speaker 1: think everybody loves football, that's that's in football, but it's
Speaker 1: different for these two. And I think at this time,
Speaker 1: at this point of the season, year three, when a
Speaker 1: lot of defenses are playing them a certain way, when
Speaker 1: you're off of a Super Bowl loss, and not just
Speaker 1: any super Bowl loss, but one where you're an audible
Speaker 1: away from being a legend, you know, immortalized forever. I
Speaker 1: think that that tandem is really core to what Cincinnati
Speaker 1: does this season. Ian Rappaport from the NFL Network was
Speaker 1: here in training camp and he told me one of
Speaker 1: the things that he wanted to do while he was
Speaker 1: in Cincinnati was sit down with Dan Pitcher because his
Speaker 1: name was popping up as a future coordinator or even
Speaker 1: a possible future NFL head coach. Have you heard any
Speaker 1: similar things, Yeah, definitely. I think some scouts here and there,
Speaker 1: some coaches here and there, because he has experience in both, right,
Speaker 1: I mean he worked in personnel that that type of
Speaker 1: experience is uncommon and for a quarterbacks coach, let alone
Speaker 1: any position coach. But I really like his his background
Speaker 1: all the way to Courtland, New York, and you know,
Speaker 1: maybe there's some some bias there in terms of my
Speaker 1: brother went to Courtland. I went to Syracuston. You know,
Speaker 1: let's just say the weekends were even a little better
Speaker 1: in Courtland than they were in Syracuse. Dan. I found
Speaker 1: myself going to see Austin from time to but it's
Speaker 1: a great area up state. But you know, he lost
Speaker 1: football twice. So when he when he comes in, you know,
Speaker 1: he goes to Colgate, Rex's shoulder transfers to Courtland. He's
Speaker 1: out of football for that fall. You know, the first
Speaker 1: time that somebody who loves the game has the game
Speaker 1: stripped from him. And instead of just kind of rehabbing
Speaker 1: and doing his own thing, he went back and called
Speaker 1: plays first high school right there in Courtland. And I
Speaker 1: think that that helped him realize early on, this is
Speaker 1: something I want to do later in life. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna play as long as I can play, but I
Speaker 1: love calling plays, I love devising game planning. It kept
Speaker 1: him in, it kept him rejuvenated. And then obviously he's
Speaker 1: at Courtland and is the best D three football in
Speaker 1: the nation by the end there. And a big reason
Speaker 1: why was he get a lot of his schoolwork done
Speaker 1: and he was kind of a half coach half player
Speaker 1: that last year where he gets capstone stuff done for
Speaker 1: his Masters and that was it. No no, no classes.
Speaker 1: He could be a coach in the morning and he
Speaker 1: could go over the game plan, he could drop the cards,
Speaker 1: he could be in all those meetings and then the
Speaker 1: afternoon would hit and he's a player again. And I
Speaker 1: think that that is such a unique I don't care
Speaker 1: D one, D two, D three, that's rare. That's different.
Speaker 1: And he knew then again that this is something I
Speaker 1: can really take with me throughout my life. And you
Speaker 1: know this Dan being around the game, I don't think
Speaker 1: people realize like Division three is what you make of it.
Speaker 1: I think xs and knows wise, and the game itself
Speaker 1: is no different than D one. Everybody just runs a
Speaker 1: four six instead of a four three or is a
Speaker 1: little less you know, talented in the weight room, and
Speaker 1: you know, throw in throwing the dumbells around. But I
Speaker 1: think he was thinking the game at an elite level,
Speaker 1: similar to Joe Burrow Right. He grew up the son
Speaker 1: of a college football coach watching the film as far
Speaker 1: back as he can remember. They're gonna find ways to
Speaker 1: really push each other at every twist and turn of
Speaker 1: an NFL season. And in Joe's case, his dad for
Speaker 1: most of his childhood is at the MAC level very
Speaker 1: good college football, but not the SEC. Just a slight
Speaker 1: tip below in terms of the forty times of these guys,
Speaker 1: the size and strength of the lineman So it's in
Speaker 1: between the Dan Pitcher college level and the level that
Speaker 1: Joe Burrow ultimately played at. Absolutely and there's probably an
Speaker 1: advantage to that where you're you're seeing the game of
Speaker 1: football through a schematic lens and you're you're thinking through
Speaker 1: it as a coach. You're you're not just thinking, Okay,
Speaker 1: this guy can run a four to three. He's gonna
Speaker 1: beat your corner one on one, and that's that. Like,
Speaker 1: I think there was some next level stuff going on,
Speaker 1: and then you have the personnel background on top of
Speaker 1: it with Dan picture where you're with the Colts and
Speaker 1: you're trying to identify talent that can translate to the NFL.
Speaker 1: I think the Bengals have a good one. You know,
Speaker 1: they'll probably have them for a little longer. You know
Speaker 1: how this progression works, right, your quarterbacks coach to an
Speaker 1: offensive coordinator to a head coach. But I think if
Speaker 1: Joe Burrow stays on this trajectory, and I'm sure we'll
Speaker 1: get into it, I think that this team is about
Speaker 1: to get really hot, right when they need to get
Speaker 1: really hot, He'll be a name that we talk about.
Speaker 1: You know, come January, you yearn and year out, all Right,
Speaker 1: so if you you've wet my appetite, I don't want
Speaker 1: to spoil the story, but we have that to look
Speaker 1: forward to with a Dan picture story coming up on
Speaker 1: golongtd dot com. Our guest is Tyler Donne. Let me
Speaker 1: follow up on what you were just saying, because you
Speaker 1: were very bullish on the Bengals when we spoke in August,
Speaker 1: and clearly you still are, despite the fact that they're
Speaker 1: five and four coming out of their by Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think you know, I promise It's not like I'm just
Speaker 1: sitting on a hill and prepared to die on this hill.
Speaker 1: Though maybe maybe some ego works its way into that take,
Speaker 1: but as as it does us all um, it's just
Speaker 1: that first game was was wacky, right, I mean, Joe
Speaker 1: Burrow is not going to throw four interceptions again in
Speaker 1: his life. Probably that was that was strange, and he's
Speaker 1: he'd never admitted. Maybe he came back from the burst
Speaker 1: appendix a little soon. He had to get his weight
Speaker 1: back and his strength back, So you know, yeah, that game,
Speaker 1: I think I think Dallas's defense ended up being a
Speaker 1: lot better than any of us thought it would be.
Speaker 1: And then since then, this offense has gradually kind of
Speaker 1: figured figured itself out, and I think most importantly is
Speaker 1: willing to react to what these defenses are are doing.
Speaker 1: And Dan Pitcher gets into this in our story as well,
Speaker 1: where I mean, they're sitting back there with those two
Speaker 1: safeties right, it's going to be a cover two in
Speaker 1: quarters and just daring the Bengals to piece together at ten, eleven, twelve,
Speaker 1: thirteen play drive to take away the vertical passing game. Jamarrow.
Speaker 1: Chase will be back eventually, and he may be the
Speaker 1: best wide receiver in football. So I think that Cincinnati
Speaker 1: showing that willingness to just run the ball against Carolina.
Speaker 1: Granted it's Carolina, but they just beat them to Smithens
Speaker 1: and Joe Mixon is running for a buck fifty and
Speaker 1: four touchdowns and they're running for I think like two
Speaker 1: forty one. As a team, you're you're gonna force teams
Speaker 1: out of that look, like you're gonna punish them for
Speaker 1: being in that look and say, all right, get out
Speaker 1: of that, play a normal defense here, and then when
Speaker 1: they do, Joe Burrow is smart enough to realize it
Speaker 1: in the moment and go up top. I think we
Speaker 1: saw that, we saw that in the Super Bowl. I mean,
Speaker 1: if they block a split second longer. I'm not telling
Speaker 1: your listeners anything they don't know. I mean, it's a
Speaker 1: it's an iconic sports moment. I mean, Jayalen Ramsey falls
Speaker 1: down and we're talking about a quarterback with the cojones
Speaker 1: to call that audible at the line and to go deep,
Speaker 1: it's it's legendary. He's gonna know, he's gonna know when
Speaker 1: that moment arrives because he's he's so smart. And that's that.
Speaker 1: Joe made a great point in its press conference this week,
Speaker 1: actually where this second half of the season, teams aren't
Speaker 1: going to surprise you much anymore. You kind of know schematically,
Speaker 1: you know what they're doing, who they are offensively and defensively.
Speaker 1: You kind of settle in to your identity. So I
Speaker 1: think that's when he really shines. I think that's when
Speaker 1: his brains really kind of kick in and Cincinnati's going
Speaker 1: to be able to outscore anybody, you know. I know
Speaker 1: we talked a lot about the secondary before the season.
Speaker 1: That would worry me a little bit to lose a
Speaker 1: shutdown corner like Chitubey Woozier is as tough as your replaceable.
Speaker 1: But then I look around the AFC, and I mean
Speaker 1: the Bills are down to second third stringers throughout their secondary.
Speaker 1: It's it's not anything other teams aren't dealing with, so
Speaker 1: I think they'll find a way. We're chatting with Tyler
Speaker 1: Dunne from golong tv dot com. You've dealt with nearly
Speaker 1: every coaching staff in the NFL. I assume what stands
Speaker 1: out to you about Zach Taylor in this group? Good question.
Speaker 1: I think that what stands out is that they seem
Speaker 1: to stay a step ahead schematically. There doesn't really seem
Speaker 1: to be a lot of staleness and stagnation, and I
Speaker 1: think the root of that is a healthy relationship between
Speaker 1: the quarterback and the coaching staff. It does seem like
Speaker 1: Joe Burrow is willing to buy into what's gonna work
Speaker 1: right if if he if he has to run the
Speaker 1: ball a lot in that particular game, they're just gonna
Speaker 1: do it. And he might have gotten into this a
Speaker 1: little bit at his press conference as well this weekend,
Speaker 1: just treating each game individually and not just being like
Speaker 1: a stock offense with a stock game plan, and like
Speaker 1: this is what we this is what we're gonna do
Speaker 1: weekend and weekend. Every game is so different. Every defense
Speaker 1: is going to play you differently, and sometimes, yeah, you're
Speaker 1: probably gonna have to swallow your ego and not throw
Speaker 1: the ball five fifty times. And like I said, as
Speaker 1: somebody who cover at Aaron Rodgers, that can be a
Speaker 1: problem for other teams as we as we see my God,
Speaker 1: I mean Green Bay. If they run the ball against
Speaker 1: the Giants, the Jets, the Commanders, they probably win all
Speaker 1: three of those games. Yet the quarterback doesn't want to.
Speaker 1: He's got autonomy at the line of scrimmage. He's change it,
Speaker 1: runs the passes. He's screaming at Matt Laflora on the sideline.
Speaker 1: He's telling Aaron Andrews before this last game he wants
Speaker 1: to go down swinging, throwing the ball. It's like, it's
Speaker 1: so obvious and great, sorry, I'm getting my high horse.
Speaker 1: It's just so obvious to run with a j Dillon
Speaker 1: and Aaron Jones. Work off of that with a Christian
Speaker 1: Watson and his speed one on one, and then you
Speaker 1: can beat the Dallas Cowboys in your seasons still alive.
Speaker 1: So he did that, and of course he still screamed
Speaker 1: at Laflora along the way. But to bring back the
Speaker 1: Cincinnati I mean, you don't see those issues with a
Speaker 1: team like the Bengals. It just seems like Joe Burrow,
Speaker 1: Zach Taylor, everybody's just on in page. Everybody's just gonna
Speaker 1: do what it takes to win. And in a game
Speaker 1: full of egos all over the place, that's really hard
Speaker 1: to find, it really is. So that tells me they're
Speaker 1: set up to win for a long time. I want
Speaker 1: to transition from the Bengals to former Bengal because here
Speaker 1: in Cincinnati we love Mike Zimmer. He was a great
Speaker 1: defensive coordinator. He was kind of a lovable curmudgeon of
Speaker 1: a personality while he was here. That was not the
Speaker 1: case in Minnesota, at least at the end of his tenure.
Speaker 1: That may have been the way it was early on,
Speaker 1: but it wasn't at the finish. And as far as
Speaker 1: I know, you were really the first person to report
Speaker 1: this and describe how bad it had become in Minnesota
Speaker 1: at the end. How did you learn about that dysfunction
Speaker 1: in Minnesota? Yeah, there were definitely were a lot of
Speaker 1: whispers and a lot of comments from players, from coaches
Speaker 1: on staff, and I had reported on it here and
Speaker 1: there since I launched Go Along, but definitely had the
Speaker 1: series on the Minnesota Vikings ahead of this year. I
Speaker 1: think maybe encapsulated all of the issues in you know,
Speaker 1: an organized fashion where yeah, right now with Kevin O'Connell,
Speaker 1: you hear culture, culture, culture, culture, and there's that tene
Speaker 1: just want to roll your eyes and say, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I've heard this before. This is every first year head
Speaker 1: coach is going to try to fumigate the building and
Speaker 1: get everybody happy and excited to go to work. But
Speaker 1: when you really start talking to these players for the Vikings,
Speaker 1: you see it. It has substance. It's real. They needed
Speaker 1: to wake up and be excited to go to work
Speaker 1: because they weren't under Mike Zimmer. I think that you're right.
Speaker 1: Early on it was great. They needed him, Mike Zimmer.
Speaker 1: They needed the discipline. I think schematically he's brilliant defensively
Speaker 1: with the way he can devise a game plan and
Speaker 1: shut down on Aaron Rodgers at times where he can
Speaker 1: make that elite quarterback hesitate and be confused. But I
Speaker 1: just think he beat guys down physically, you know, at practice,
Speaker 1: just making guys kind of play hurt, play through injuries
Speaker 1: when they really should be arresting. There's that element. But
Speaker 1: even when his job security started to get a little
Speaker 1: shaky and his people are calling for his jobs in
Speaker 1: the medium, and he would tell his other coaches how
Speaker 1: much it just drove him nuts. Terrence S. Newman talked
Speaker 1: about this at length. And here's a Zim guy quote
Speaker 1: unquote who played for him Dallas since Minnesota, coached with
Speaker 1: him in Minnesota. So what he's coaching with him? And
Speaker 1: he's here in Zimmer I rate and upset about his
Speaker 1: job security. He's thinking as a player, like, what the
Speaker 1: hell are you so worried about? Man? Like, you got
Speaker 1: guaranteed contract. If they fire you, you're good. You can
Speaker 1: just chill, go on vacation for a year or two.
Speaker 1: These players, if you when you cut them, what you
Speaker 1: have done, their lives are uprooted. And I think that
Speaker 1: that really took him aback. And also dbs within his
Speaker 1: scheme are asked to do a lot, and I think
Speaker 1: that they got to a point, especially when you know
Speaker 1: that first group kind of got older and left and
Speaker 1: they kind of had to go to some younger dbs.
Speaker 1: These younger dbs, he just really wasn't willing to work
Speaker 1: with them. I mean, Cameron Dancer told me that when
Speaker 1: he was hurt, Zimmer was basically like, you know, he
Speaker 1: brings in somebody else and you're dead to me in
Speaker 1: so many words. And then on the field, they're just
Speaker 1: scared of their own shadow. They're they're afraid to operate
Speaker 1: off of feel and off of instincts and just seaball
Speaker 1: getball because they know, come that film session on Monday,
Speaker 1: there's going to be hell to pay, and Zimmer is
Speaker 1: just going to undress them and embarrass them and humiliate
Speaker 1: them in front of the team. So that just absolutely
Speaker 1: zaps spot in eighty which there is no coincidence that
Speaker 1: this Minnesota Vikings team loses I think seven one score
Speaker 1: games last year, maybe eight, and this year they've like
Speaker 1: they're right there with just a few teams in NFL
Speaker 1: history who have won this many one score games. I
Speaker 1: think since the O nine Colts, the on and Culture
Speaker 1: the last team to win this many one score games
Speaker 1: at this point of the season. Obviously they got to
Speaker 1: the Super Bowl. I think it is culture, right. It
Speaker 1: is just being willing to operate off of instincts and
Speaker 1: feel in the fourth quarter, and that's everything. Kevin O'Connell
Speaker 1: had to change in Minnesota. Anybody that reads Go alongtd
Speaker 1: dot com knew the Vikings are going to be better
Speaker 1: this year after the series of stories you wrote at
Speaker 1: the beginning of the season, Tyler, you are based in
Speaker 1: the Buffalo area. The Bills are clearly still among the
Speaker 1: best teams in the NFL, but they are not the
Speaker 1: juggernaut that many expected. Who do you like at this
Speaker 1: point as the teams to beat? You're right, they've hit
Speaker 1: a rut. I think the Bills they had to handle
Speaker 1: some pretty unprecedented Super Bowl expectations, not not just in
Speaker 1: Buffalo but beyond. There's never been a Super Bowl favorite
Speaker 1: to that degree in Vegas, as the Bills weren't it
Speaker 1: this season. Inevitably, you're gonna hit a rut. I think
Speaker 1: they'll work through it. Josh Allen's too good to be
Speaker 1: making the mistakes he's making. At the same time, like
Speaker 1: you worry about coaching in them in that playoff moment.
Speaker 1: Sean McDermott has kind of come up shore here now
Speaker 1: a few years in a row, so it's been about
Speaker 1: January all along for the Bills, so we'll see how
Speaker 1: he steps up in that moment. I know I said
Speaker 1: it last time. It sounds like I'm pandering. I really
Speaker 1: believe that the Bengals, the Bengals with Joe Burrow and
Speaker 1: a healthy Jamar Chase and T Higgins and Tyler Boyd
Speaker 1: and Joe Mixon and the line that's gonna be better
Speaker 1: than the line they had last year. Give give me that.
Speaker 1: In this AFC, I just feel like they'll be able
Speaker 1: to keep up with any team offensively. And they're not
Speaker 1: going to be afraid of the Chiefs. I mean, they're
Speaker 1: gonna play the Chiefs anywhere. Arrowhead, you know, right there
Speaker 1: in Cincinnati, pay courts, pay court State pays all right,
Speaker 1: play him anywhere. I mean, they're gonna be confident that
Speaker 1: they can beat that team. So I think Kansas City,
Speaker 1: I think Cincinnati. I love Lamar Jackson, but so far
Speaker 1: he's kind of plateaued. He you know, we haven't seen
Speaker 1: him dominate at the level you need to dominate in
Speaker 1: the postseason when you have to take your layups, work
Speaker 1: the ball down the field, be accurate, and then Joe
Speaker 1: Burrows the most accurate quarterback in the NFL. I would
Speaker 1: still put Cincinnati ahead of Baltimore. I think Buffalo be
Speaker 1: in the mix. I'll tell you what one team that
Speaker 1: I'll have a series on next week, particularly the quarterback Miami.
Speaker 1: I think that too a tongue of Bio and Mike
Speaker 1: McDaniel Tyree killing Jaylen Waddle. It's just been a perfect
Speaker 1: storm where when they get going on offense, man, it's
Speaker 1: it's like watching NBA jam on a football field. It's
Speaker 1: like they're on fire and they cannot be stopped. And yeah,
Speaker 1: they've got deficiencies on defense, but I think that that
Speaker 1: would scare me if I'm any team in the AFC.
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, to give you three Kansas City since
Speaker 1: the Miami, I wouldn't surprise any of any of those
Speaker 1: three teams with the distance. I'm with you on Miami.
Speaker 1: I think they are trending up. They remind me of
Speaker 1: the Bengals last year quite honestly. All Right, so we
Speaker 1: have the dam pitcher Joe Burrows story to look forward to. Additionally,
Speaker 1: you have written a book, The Blood and Guts How
Speaker 1: tight Ends Save Football. What made you want to write
Speaker 1: about the tight end position and some of the greats
Speaker 1: that have played it? Gotch I've always wanted to write
Speaker 1: a book, you know, being a long form guy and
Speaker 1: wanting to throw myself into it, into a topic. I
Speaker 1: just didn't know what it was going to be, right.
Speaker 1: I didn't really want to write specifically about one team
Speaker 1: or one player. Nothing was kind of inspiring me down
Speaker 1: those lines. But you know, I've grown up in football,
Speaker 1: havn't played it and covered it my whole life. I
Speaker 1: love the sport, the real sport, real football, not this
Speaker 1: overly sanitized version, not this utopian middle ground the NFL's
Speaker 1: trying to find. I guess that's kind of what got
Speaker 1: me thinking about this Dan where we're sitting at home
Speaker 1: watching a game. The flags are flying, you know, the
Speaker 1: Chris jones Is and Grady Jareds of the world this year.
Speaker 1: I mean, they tackle the quarterback and they're just taking
Speaker 1: away in cuffs. It just drives me insane. I feel
Speaker 1: like the NFL is just in this everlasting pursuit of
Speaker 1: convincing moms across America that football is safe. They're trying
Speaker 1: to find a middle ground that doesn't exist. Look, there's
Speaker 1: an inherent risk, there's an inherent violence to the sport,
Speaker 1: and that's okay. I think that once the NFL could
Speaker 1: just own it and no, this is what we are,
Speaker 1: and it would eliminate a lot of problems because the
Speaker 1: players know what they're getting into, especially now with awareness
Speaker 1: of concussions at an all time high. So I was
Speaker 1: trying to figure out love the game, a little concerned
Speaker 1: about where the game's going, what can preserve real football?
Speaker 1: And the more I really thought about it, it's that
Speaker 1: tight end position because you have to do everything right.
Speaker 1: You're in the trenches, you're getting bruised and bloodied, and
Speaker 1: you're doing all the stuff that alignment has to do.
Speaker 1: Yet you still have the glitz and glamor outside. You
Speaker 1: still gotta make a play down the field with eighty
Speaker 1: thousand screaming fans and the world watching, and that combination
Speaker 1: I think really kind of encapsulates everything that we love
Speaker 1: about football. But honestly, you know, the more I really
Speaker 1: started working on this book and traveling around the country,
Speaker 1: hanging out with Mike Dicka, Tony Gonzalez, Ben Coats, Jeremy Shockey,
Speaker 1: Grant Kittle, all these guys, I think it became a
Speaker 1: book as much about the human condition and life, and
Speaker 1: you know, they'll have you kind of staring through your
Speaker 1: own soul, trying to trying to figure out why why
Speaker 1: we're on this planet. So it was awesome. I mean
Speaker 1: it became such a labor love, a passion project. I
Speaker 1: didn't want it to end, Honestly, I had deadlines I
Speaker 1: had to meet and stuff. I feel like I could
Speaker 1: have been talking to these tight ends for the next
Speaker 1: ten years. They were just an absolute riot. I think
Speaker 1: what people will learn too is, you know, outside of Gronk,
Speaker 1: who idolized Jeremy Shockey, you know, living like there's no tomorrow,
Speaker 1: partying like there's no tomorrow, he wanted that rock star life.
Speaker 1: He wanted to be a tight end. For the most part,
Speaker 1: the position chooses you like you have a set of
Speaker 1: characteristics as a human being, your you know, your Dallas Clark,
Speaker 1: a walk on at Iowa, mowing the field at Kinnocks Stadium,
Speaker 1: selling the campus newspaper, serving as a dummy for psychology
Speaker 1: students and Dennis students just to make an extra twenty bucks,
Speaker 1: scratching and clawn and eventually Kirk Ferren says, you're You're
Speaker 1: not a linebacker, You're a terrible linebacker. You're a tight end.
Speaker 1: And it's like all of these indomitable traits inside, like
Speaker 1: Dalla's cluck just shine, and he is exactly what Peyton man.
Speaker 1: He needs to just take that offense to other level,
Speaker 1: or you're Jimmy Graham instead of a group home, fearing
Speaker 1: for your life, fighting kids on a daily basis, feeling
Speaker 1: your face break. In one instance, specifically that he gets
Speaker 1: into where he feels like he's gonna die to survive
Speaker 1: that world, he naturally, organically was just going to become
Speaker 1: a tight end and changed the position in his own way.
Speaker 1: It was it was a riot. It was so much fun.
Speaker 1: I'm just glad that people can kind of hear the
Speaker 1: stories that I heard this past year. Sounds like great stuff.
Speaker 1: Tyler Dunn writes about the NFL and podcast about the
Speaker 1: NFL at golongtd dot com. I am a subscriber. I
Speaker 1: am proudly rocking my golonghoodie as we speak. For folks
Speaker 1: not familiar with what you do, share a little bit
Speaker 1: more about golongtd dot com. Absolutely appreciate it. You know,
Speaker 1: I just really want to cover the game through a
Speaker 1: long form lens. I really feel like year to year,
Speaker 1: season to season, the game is really it's covered more
Speaker 1: than ever before, right, I Mean, there's all sorts of
Speaker 1: ways you can consume the NFL, but a lot of
Speaker 1: it is fast food. A lot of it's takes and
Speaker 1: memes and gifts and tweets and takes, and it's in
Speaker 1: real time, right. We're just kind of absorbing it throughout
Speaker 1: the day, and we're not really getting the substance. We're
Speaker 1: not really taking a deep breath and learning the how
Speaker 1: and the why behind what we see on Sundays. So
Speaker 1: I really want to just create a home for long
Speaker 1: form journalism that will just kind of last forever, where
Speaker 1: we get to know the players and the coaches and
Speaker 1: the teams on a deeper level and really explain the
Speaker 1: game in a deeper way. So yeah, golong tv dot com.
Speaker 1: You can sign up for free if you'd like, or
Speaker 1: you can just get a full subscription eight a month
Speaker 1: fifty a year to get all the features and all
Speaker 1: the podcasts. I do a podcast as well with Isaiah
Speaker 1: McKenzie for The Bills. We meet up at a at
Speaker 1: a bar here in Western New York and he breaks
Speaker 1: the game down at a different level. And my podcast
Speaker 1: co host, Jim Otis was a longtime NFL scout as well,
Speaker 1: And obviously the bread and butter are these long form stories.
Speaker 1: So last time I was on your podcast, Dan, the
Speaker 1: Bengal fans were unbelievable and subscribe in droves and I
Speaker 1: cannot thank everybody out there enough. So if anybody out
Speaker 1: there would like to subscribe annually, you're right. If you
Speaker 1: want to go bigger, go home right, hit that annual
Speaker 1: subscription and we will send you a copy of the
Speaker 1: Blood and Guts and go along. So it would love
Speaker 1: it if people want to do that, and I'll just
Speaker 1: personally sign a copy and you know, get a two
Speaker 1: for one special. You got a market a little bit right.
Speaker 1: That's the whole world that's been new to me. The
Speaker 1: marketing of your product is as a work in progress,
Speaker 1: but the Bengal fans were so amazing that I'd be
Speaker 1: dumb to not offer something here. Well, I'm sure they
Speaker 1: appreciate it. And I can virtually guarantee that anybody that
Speaker 1: subscribed previously after hearing you on this podcast is happy
Speaker 1: that they did because the content is phenomenal. I enjoy
Speaker 1: getting those notifications in my inbox and it's always great
Speaker 1: to chat Tyler. Thanks for the time. Really look forward
Speaker 1: to the Dan picture Joe Purrow's story. They no thank you, Dan,
Speaker 1: really appreciate the kind words and it's always great coming on.
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me. Bengals Boot Podcast is presented by
Speaker 1: Bengals Picks and Ultimate Bengals. They're free to play with
Speaker 1: tickets and signed merchandise up for grabs. Find both inside
Speaker 1: the Bengals app. The Bengals are a four point favorite
Speaker 1: this week because they head to Pittsburgh to take on
Speaker 1: the three and six Steelers. The Steelers have changed quarterbacks
Speaker 1: since their three point overtime win over the Bengals in
Speaker 1: Week one. Mitch Drubiski is out. First ground draft pick,
Speaker 1: Kenny Pickett out of the University of Pittsburgh is in.
Speaker 1: That's where I began this week's No The Faux segment
Speaker 1: with the pregame host of the Steelers Radio Network, Tim Bens. Tim,
Speaker 1: Kenny Pickett's stats are bad, but that can be deceiving.
Speaker 1: How is he played and is he getting better? He's
Speaker 1: showing progress in terms of the very basic things like
Speaker 1: getting everybody lined up. He's taking care of the ball better.
Speaker 1: At least he did against the Saints. No turnovers, no interceptions,
Speaker 1: that was a first for him. They got a couple
Speaker 1: of red zone touchdowns. They were able to stay on
Speaker 1: the field, and they converted ten I believe, third plus
Speaker 1: fourth down conversions, So he's getting better there by all accounts,
Speaker 1: he's getting better for his role in executing the run game,
Speaker 1: like real basic stuff. And when Tomlin was asked about
Speaker 1: that this week, because the past game seemed to be
Speaker 1: the thing that's lagging the most still with the Steelers,
Speaker 1: he really complimented pick Up and really sold hard what
Speaker 1: he's doing. And I think that was as much dan
Speaker 1: strategic as it was of valuatives, if that makes any sense. Like,
Speaker 1: I think that was as much about giving him confidence
Speaker 1: and giving the fan base confidence that this is the
Speaker 1: right guy. He's getting better as opposed to Tomlin's truest
Speaker 1: assessment of what his play is. In other words, I
Speaker 1: do think there's some grading on a curve going on here.
Speaker 1: Salesmanship is part of the job, no question about that.
Speaker 1: We're chatting with Steelers pregame host Tim Bens. The Bengals
Speaker 1: could not protect Joe Burrow back in Week one. T J.
Speaker 1: Watt got injured in that game, but he's back now.
Speaker 1: Does everybody have trouble protecting their quarterback when t J.
Speaker 1: Watt is part of the Steelers defense. Yes, yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean the record indicates that. I do think there's a
Speaker 1: bit of a correlation with how good the quarterbacks and
Speaker 1: the lines have been. When TJ has been healthy, He's
Speaker 1: really exploited some of those things. Offensive lines that aren't
Speaker 1: so great, quarterbacks who are on the severe downside or
Speaker 1: very early in their careers, things like that. But the
Speaker 1: bottom line answer your question is everybody has a problem
Speaker 1: with Watt and everybody else, and the Steelers defense gets
Speaker 1: better when he's in there. I mean, look at Alex Highsmith.
Speaker 1: He's got eight and a half sacks, and I think
Speaker 1: five and a half have come in the two games
Speaker 1: where Wat's been healthy that he's gotten three and all
Speaker 1: the others. I think a lot of his sacks are
Speaker 1: product of offensive lines, offensive coordinators paying attention to where
Speaker 1: Watt is, and then Highsmith good enough to win one
Speaker 1: on one battles against some tackles like to see more
Speaker 1: when Watt isn't on the field, for sure, but that
Speaker 1: manifested nicely against the Saints, and I thought TJ was
Speaker 1: real good in the run game against the Saints. He
Speaker 1: was still disruptive. They still had a hard time with him.
Speaker 1: Even though he didn't have a gaudy stat line as
Speaker 1: he normally does. High Smith was dominant against the Bengals,
Speaker 1: no question about that with t J. Watt on the field.
Speaker 1: Speaking of dominant, Minka Fitzpatrick had one of the best
Speaker 1: games of his career in Week one to pick six
Speaker 1: on the Bengals opening drive. He blocked the pat to
Speaker 1: force ot he missed last week after having an appendeck
Speaker 1: tomy to ex becked him to be out on Sunday.
Speaker 1: Boy Tomlin was sure trying to sell that. That might
Speaker 1: be more of your salesman talk there, and that might
Speaker 1: be something that he's trying to sell because the Bengals
Speaker 1: would likely have to prepare a lot for Minca being
Speaker 1: back there. But you know, if they're coming up with
Speaker 1: a Plan A and a Plan B with or without Fitzpatrick,
Speaker 1: that would have been a heck of a lot easier
Speaker 1: to do. Before Demante Kyz became eligible to come off
Speaker 1: of injury reserve and after getting past that NFL suspension
Speaker 1: that he was on. Was coincided because he was real good.
Speaker 1: I thought against New Orleans. I thought he was real
Speaker 1: good during the preseason two and there are a lot
Speaker 1: of folks myself included that we're excited to see what
Speaker 1: he and Fitzpatrick could be together, and we still haven't
Speaker 1: seen that and may not see that this week against
Speaker 1: since if Fitzpatrick doesn't get medical clearance. But I think
Speaker 1: since Minka has gotten here, Kaz is the closest fac
Speaker 1: similarly to replace Minka when he's not on the field.
Speaker 1: So if they go at the free safety position test
Speaker 1: the free safety position deep like other teams have when
Speaker 1: Minka has not been available due to COVID or injury
Speaker 1: or what have you, in some games, it might be
Speaker 1: harder to pull off because I think Casey's a pretty
Speaker 1: good player that can do some MINCA light minca like
Speaker 1: things that others that have been on the roster cannot.
Speaker 1: The Steelers traded for our old friend Will Jackson, and
Speaker 1: then he almost immediately went injured on injured reserves, so
Speaker 1: we won't play against the Bengals. But what was the
Speaker 1: reaction to Pittsburgh picking up Will Jackson in that trade
Speaker 1: from Washington. I think the reaction was, well, do we
Speaker 1: all get to go back to twenty sixteen and seventeen
Speaker 1: and maybe replace some of the playoff games that happened
Speaker 1: in those years because it sort of felt like they
Speaker 1: were chasing a ghost, you know, like that's the first
Speaker 1: reaction that I had, because I don't think Jackson turned
Speaker 1: into what thee the Steelers thought he would be. Certainly
Speaker 1: already Burns did not the guy that they got when
Speaker 1: the Bengals scooped up Jackson the draft and the Steelers
Speaker 1: wanted him. You know, there was a lot of talking
Speaker 1: the city into while it was a bad fit in Washington,
Speaker 1: and his back is fine and YadA YadA, and then
Speaker 1: he gets here in the back is such a problem
Speaker 1: that they can't even play him much more than one practice.
Speaker 1: So you know, this might be what they try to
Speaker 1: do with the Kelley Witherspoon, pick him up kind of midseason,
Speaker 1: incubate him, get him to learn the system, and then
Speaker 1: see what you have to start the next season. And
Speaker 1: hopefully they get more mileage out of Jackson to start
Speaker 1: next season than they did with Witherspoon this year, whereas
Speaker 1: Witherspoon gave him a little bit more towards the end
Speaker 1: of last year. Our guest the Steelers pregame host Tim Bens.
Speaker 1: This game has been flexed out of Sunday Night Football,
Speaker 1: and while NBC would never say it. The reason is
Speaker 1: Pittsburgh is three and six. How did the team and
Speaker 1: Steelers fans react to this game? Being flexed a little
Speaker 1: surprised because I think that even understanding that this Steelers
Speaker 1: are three and six, even understanding that it was the
Speaker 1: Chiefs and Chargers that went in, the thinking was well,
Speaker 1: gosh and still Bengal Steelers. And even though they might
Speaker 1: not be as bad blood oriented as they were, say
Speaker 1: five years ago, they still tend to play crazy, goofy,
Speaker 1: wild games, just like Week one of this year. I mean,
Speaker 1: you didn't have the Porter versus pac Man, Juju versus
Speaker 1: Burfix stuff in that first game, but it was still
Speaker 1: a nutty game. And crazy things tend to happen when
Speaker 1: the Steelers and Bengals playing. The games stay close, and
Speaker 1: that's good for ratings. The Steelers still have a good
Speaker 1: national fan base that watches. You know, it's still a
Speaker 1: good crowd here last week against the Saints, even though
Speaker 1: the Steelers are out of it. And you know, I know,
Speaker 1: the Bengals aren't looking like a Super Bowl repeat team
Speaker 1: out of the AFC either. They're maybe not as touted
Speaker 1: as they were towards the end of last season. But
Speaker 1: I still think they've got a little bit. It's not
Speaker 1: as much juice close as much juice as the Chargers do.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I was surprised. I think some people, you
Speaker 1: know people, if you could move a Monday night game,
Speaker 1: and folks said, well, we're not gonna have him play
Speaker 1: on Monday night against the Colts. I don't think anybody
Speaker 1: would have batted an eye. But because it was the Bengals,
Speaker 1: because there's so much fun history there, meat on the
Speaker 1: bone there for the networks, it was surprising that this
Speaker 1: game was flexed. Yes, the Steelers ran for more than
Speaker 1: two hundred yards last week and the win over the Saints,
Speaker 1: they had four runs of twenty or more. Just a
Speaker 1: good week or something that's been building. Good question, I
Speaker 1: think it's been building a little bit. I would love
Speaker 1: to say that it's just the offensive line has totally
Speaker 1: gelled and come together. But then the pass blocking, which
Speaker 1: it looked pretty decent in previous weeks, has taken a
Speaker 1: step back the last two and they've allowed six sacks.
Speaker 1: But I could put a lot of that in the
Speaker 1: rookie quarterback as well. I think it was a good
Speaker 1: match up against the Saints the records of teams when
Speaker 1: they played Baltimore than Pittsburgh or Pittsburgh and Baltimore a
Speaker 1: lousy let alone going on the road after a Monday
Speaker 1: night game. I think that had something to do with it.
Speaker 1: I do not expect them to push around the front
Speaker 1: of the Bengals the same way they did the Saints.
Speaker 1: I don't expect them to have the ball for nearly
Speaker 1: thirty nine minutes. Again, just the occasional pop of a
Speaker 1: big run like you talked about before, that has been
Speaker 1: absent from this team. Big plays in general have been
Speaker 1: absent from this team. So even to get a few
Speaker 1: of those to maintain drives move the sticks without having
Speaker 1: to do everything right ten eleven, twelve plays at a time,
Speaker 1: and a drive to get a chunk like that on
Speaker 1: the ground once or twice against Cincinnati, that would be
Speaker 1: good enough for me to feel like there is still
Speaker 1: some progress being made off the Saints game, even if
Speaker 1: the numbers aren't as gaudy as the ones that you
Speaker 1: and I have been pointing to here. Final question for
Speaker 1: Steelers pregame host Tim Benns Mike Tomlin famously has this
Speaker 1: streak of no losing seasons. It's at fifteen years and counting,
Speaker 1: it's obviously in jeopardy this year. The Steelers are three
Speaker 1: and six right now, Pittsburgh would have the tenth pick
Speaker 1: in the draft. Based on your interaction with Steelers fans,
Speaker 1: would they rather rally to extend the streak or climb
Speaker 1: the draft board. I don't think that they care about
Speaker 1: the streak. I think that some I'll say many Steelers
Speaker 1: fans are a bit frustrated by the streak because it's
Speaker 1: great to talk about when you brag about your organization.
Speaker 1: They don't like to do it to defend Tomlin when
Speaker 1: he has had a playoff win in six years, you know,
Speaker 1: like they tend to bludgeon people with that streak when
Speaker 1: they're talking about the emblem. But when it comes to
Speaker 1: evaluating Tomlin, people don't like to hear about the streak
Speaker 1: because it's been a while since they've had a playoff win.
Speaker 1: So I think the analysis of where the Steelers are,
Speaker 1: I think Monday through Saturday people are like, well, I
Speaker 1: don't care if they went. If they lose, so what
Speaker 1: they'll be up in the draft. Maybe they'll be close
Speaker 1: to top ten pick and maybe they can get a
Speaker 1: I like bet again, on defense, or the guy like
Speaker 1: Ben again on the offensive line, or maybe they can
Speaker 1: just get another Ben and get rid of Picket, Like
Speaker 1: you know, you've heard every theory under the sun already
Speaker 1: of what they would do with that top ten pick, right,
Speaker 1: But then Sunday rolls around, they beat the snot out
Speaker 1: of the Saints, and everybody's joyous that they finally got
Speaker 1: to win again. So you know, I just I think
Speaker 1: the tanking is not in the blood of the fan
Speaker 1: base here. They kind of talk about it during the week.
Speaker 1: Wouldn't it be better if they're in the top ten?
Speaker 1: And then one o'clock rolls around, the lots are full
Speaker 1: oft Hinesfield and renegade plays and they're waving terrible towels
Speaker 1: and TJ's back out there, and it's, you know, if
Speaker 1: they lose the game in their math, that they lose.
Speaker 1: So I think that's kind of where the where the
Speaker 1: fan base is on it. Tim, great stuff as always,
Speaker 1: much appreciated. See you Sunday at Acqushuer Stadium. I am
Speaker 1: one for one and getting the stadium's name right this week.
Speaker 1: So my consecutive accuser streak ended at week eight for
Speaker 1: a week eight and much like a no hitter. I
Speaker 1: bragged about it in one segment of the Free Game Show,
Speaker 1: and then I blew it in the next hour, So
Speaker 1: I'm now a victim of my own broadcaster's cursed. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: since I just bragged about being one for one, I'm
Speaker 1: guaranteed to botch it on Sunday. It's the historical references
Speaker 1: that get you. You catch yourself by saying Heinesfield when
Speaker 1: you're talking about a game in like twenty seventeen, So
Speaker 1: you have to add the caveat of what it was
Speaker 1: called what used to be formally known as Heinz Field.
Speaker 1: You gotta weave that in and get used to it.
Speaker 1: That's going to do it. For this episode of the
Speaker 1: Bengals Booth podcast, presented by Kettering Health, the official healthcare
Speaker 1: provider of the Bengals, by Bengals Picks and Ultimate Bengals,
Speaker 1: they're free to play with tickets and signed merchandise up
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Speaker 1: of the Bengals, and by Alta Fiber. Future Proof Fiber
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Speaker 1: comment that helps more Bengals fans find us. I'm Dan
Speaker 1: Horde and thanks for listening to the Bengals Booth podcast