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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephane.

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Speaker 1: Never told your protection of I Heart Radio. It is Thursday,

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Speaker 1: which means it's time for another happy hour. And despite

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Speaker 1: the title on this one, I think this one's gonna

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Speaker 1: be fun. Um, So I'm commiserating perfect despite the title. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: I happen to like the title. But I also like

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Speaker 1: a lot of sad things, so that's you know, whatever,

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Speaker 1: what are you sitting on, Samantha. You know what, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna keep it simple and get one of my favorite

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Speaker 1: white wines. Pretty much the only white wine that I'll

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Speaker 1: ever drink is Vino Verde and it's the Traitor Joe version.

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Speaker 1: So you've been classier. Yeah, and it's kind of got

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Speaker 1: that definitely a lot more tart than your typical white wines,

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Speaker 1: as well as a lot more clean to me than

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Speaker 1: because I don't like a lot of like the the

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Speaker 1: smoky wood ish taste that happens that buttery. It's not

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Speaker 1: that at all. But yeah, and it's super cheap, so cheers.

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Speaker 1: It's super cold because Atlanta is super hot. Yes, actually,

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Speaker 1: I was going to get wine because I feel like

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Speaker 1: this is a very wine. I know, it's a cliche,

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Speaker 1: but like to reminisce over past relationships over wine. But

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Speaker 1: we've been recording for about four hours now and we're

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Speaker 1: in my closet and it's so hot. So I switched

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Speaker 1: up my drink and I'm going to get some judgment

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Speaker 1: for this one, but I love this. It is a

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Speaker 1: little bit of vodka pickle juice, saratcha, it's sparkling water.

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Speaker 1: I had to get really creative because I never have

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Speaker 1: any fixers. And when this guy sent me a bunch

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Speaker 1: of pickles, that's a story for a different day, but

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Speaker 1: I had a lot of pickles. I was like, what

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Speaker 1: what can I eat? Mix this with? And I was like,

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Speaker 1: I have a bunch of pickle juice. So I started

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Speaker 1: putting it my drinks and I find it very refreshing.

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Speaker 1: But I know it's odd. Um. It is something I

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Speaker 1: loved as a kid. I love to drink just pickle juice.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people do. I love pickles, but I'm

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Speaker 1: very picky about my pickles and I'll only eat one

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Speaker 1: brand because to me, the rest of them are too uh,

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Speaker 1: soggy and sad. So I'll only eat one brand, one type.

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Speaker 1: And I have to stock up because apparently they run

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Speaker 1: out of this one brand every time if you don't

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Speaker 1: get it immediately. I even followed them on Twitter. Don't

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Speaker 1: start with me. There's no shame. I won't drink that,

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Speaker 1: but there's no shame. It's very refreshing. I'm good. I

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Speaker 1: almost lying about it. I was almost not going to.

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Speaker 1: I have to be open and honest. That's a this

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Speaker 1: episode is about. And as always, drink responsibly if you

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Speaker 1: choose to do so. Yeah, we just want you all

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Speaker 1: to hang out with us. And I think this is

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Speaker 1: something that a lot of us can relate to, because

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Speaker 1: what I wanted to talk about today is something I

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Speaker 1: have been kind of mulling over and I think a

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Speaker 1: lot of people have throughout this quarantine um and in

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Speaker 1: my case specifically, as I've learned more about myself and

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Speaker 1: how I identify and more about mindfulness, some things that

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Speaker 1: I would have done differently I wish I had known

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Speaker 1: when I was younger and in relationships. So I do

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Speaker 1: want to say I know a lot of people get

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Speaker 1: a little um angry about when women apologize, and especially

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Speaker 1: in a case like this where it's like apologies to

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Speaker 1: boyfriends past. It's not coming from the sense that I

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Speaker 1: feel that I did anything wrong Necessarily. I think I

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Speaker 1: just wasn't in a good place or you know, like

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Speaker 1: I was learning, or we're in different places at different times,

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Speaker 1: so maybe I did do things wrong. But it's more

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Speaker 1: of like a almost an apology to myself but also

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Speaker 1: the person that I did care about and in some

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Speaker 1: cases still do care about, that I didn't have the

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Speaker 1: tools or awareness then and that I might have hurt

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Speaker 1: that person. But it's coming much for from a place

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Speaker 1: of like I've healed and moved on and just kind

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Speaker 1: of like, hey, if it wasn't a weird thing to do,

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Speaker 1: I would apologize to you for this thing. That's nice. Yeah. See,

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Speaker 1: Samantha and I am very different break up attitudes because

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Speaker 1: I have seen most of the people I've broken up with,

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Speaker 1: especially if we dated for a while like after and

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Speaker 1: more than once after. This is not how you are, right, Samantha.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, oh no, they must go into the abyss

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Speaker 1: of boyfriend's past and never to be seen again. And

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Speaker 1: I am okay with that. Yeah. I definitely have the

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Speaker 1: whole different like take on all of that typically because um, hey,

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Speaker 1: I'm not great relationships, so and I say that in

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Speaker 1: every aspect of I don't understand completely how relationships are

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Speaker 1: supposed to go, whether it's my ideas or my frame

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Speaker 1: of reference. Are romance movies really bad romance movies, or

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Speaker 1: my parents who have been together from the beginning, like

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Speaker 1: it's just it's just been that way, or my people

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Speaker 1: around me who have gotten divorces that does not look

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Speaker 1: pretty or stuck in really sad relationships, And of course

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Speaker 1: it's definitely those who are in wonderful, beautiful relationships, but

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Speaker 1: also I'm also one of those that has not a

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Speaker 1: big tie, so meaning we may I don't date within

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Speaker 1: typically my friend group this one time absolutely not necessarily

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Speaker 1: a friend group, but they are in close quarters or

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Speaker 1: we would be in trouble. I typically don't date within

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Speaker 1: working scenarios, so I can't like you are not part

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Speaker 1: of me, like, nope, were good. We are separate here,

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Speaker 1: So for me, a lot of that has happened. Didn't

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Speaker 1: start having relationships till my twenties either, so that's a

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Speaker 1: whole different conversation as well. So I feel like the

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Speaker 1: way I've set myself up has always been kind of

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Speaker 1: that way, and it's not again, not that I'm angry

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Speaker 1: necessarily it's there's this level of embarrassment of like, oh,

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Speaker 1: these are the things that we did in our relationships.

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Speaker 1: I can't see you in any other way than oh,

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Speaker 1: my god, we did that. Let's move on. Even though

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Speaker 1: there's nothing shameful, it just feels that way. So a

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Speaker 1: lot of that again, my my whole aspect is like

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Speaker 1: I just I want I want to forget. I mean,

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Speaker 1: how do I forget you? So you don't like ruminate

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Speaker 1: on if I had done this or if I had

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Speaker 1: done that. Of course I do, Like I am a

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Speaker 1: very very deep I analyze everything to the core. But

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Speaker 1: after that is done, and I will obsess for a

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Speaker 1: little while, Like I will definitely do that and get

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Speaker 1: into my feelings and be really hurt and it'll be painful,

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Speaker 1: Like it feels like a death to me, which is

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Speaker 1: probat of the problem I think. And we're gonna talk

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Speaker 1: a little bit about my attachment issues that if I

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Speaker 1: let you in, it's really hard and it's super painful

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Speaker 1: to cut you out. And it feels like that because

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Speaker 1: it feels like something has been pulled away from me,

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Speaker 1: and there's this moment of like take about breath away

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Speaker 1: because it just feels empty. So especially again if I've

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Speaker 1: let you in to my life or into the level

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Speaker 1: of being intimate in any way, so I may really

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Speaker 1: be hurt and in pain for a good like maybe

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Speaker 1: even like two months, like you know, and it doesn't matter.

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Speaker 1: Sex in the City has an episode where it gives

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Speaker 1: you a calculation of how long you have, like the

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Speaker 1: half the time that you've been together to really be hurt.

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Speaker 1: So if you've been together with someone for six months,

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Speaker 1: you have three months to get over it. I don't

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Speaker 1: think those calculations are correct somewhere like that, but I

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Speaker 1: it may take me a while, but once it's over,

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Speaker 1: it's over, and I want you to be gone, okay,

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Speaker 1: okay for ever? Yeah, I And then that's been very interesting.

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Speaker 1: I think when we've had conversations about this, because we

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Speaker 1: do have such a different approaches, we're I'll be telling

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Speaker 1: you about like, oh, I'm gonna go see my ex

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Speaker 1: boyfriend for this, and you're like, why, yeah, yeah, it is,

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Speaker 1: I'm very shocked. Well, and to be fair, how's the

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Speaker 1: time between you and everybody else who do see their

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Speaker 1: exes is typically because they're still using you for something

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Speaker 1: that's yeah, yeah, yeah, Well, and to be fair, I also,

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Speaker 1: I think this is natural, but when that happens, there

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Speaker 1: is an element of what is this really about? Like

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Speaker 1: you're trying to get to the underlying reason. And I

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Speaker 1: do want to say, like we're talking about boyfriends here,

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Speaker 1: and I'm talking about boyfriends here. I have dated women,

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Speaker 1: but I've never had quite as long term of a

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Speaker 1: relationship with a woman. And if I if I was

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Speaker 1: apologies to girlfriends passed, it would be I had no

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Speaker 1: idea what I was doing. I had no idea what

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Speaker 1: I was doing, and I was waiting on the other

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Speaker 1: person to show me right yes, and and also very unsure,

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Speaker 1: which I really appreciated. A lot of listeners have written

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Speaker 1: in about this of being in college when this was

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Speaker 1: happening and doubting like, oh am I just college experimenting

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Speaker 1: and then feeling really terrible that I might be doing

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Speaker 1: that to somebody. It didn't turn out to be the case,

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Speaker 1: but I got I got it in my head about

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Speaker 1: that of like, am I just doing this because it's

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Speaker 1: cool or something? Which is really unfortunate. And I did

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Speaker 1: have some really sweet relationships that meant a lot to me,

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Speaker 1: And that's that's something when I look back on most

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Speaker 1: of my relationships, not all of them. I don't think

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Speaker 1: that they were a waste of time because I did

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Speaker 1: learn something about myself and what I want, and a

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Speaker 1: lot of them, and a lot of them I had

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Speaker 1: like some beautiful times and memories that we made. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: there are things that I catch myself wishing I could

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Speaker 1: apologize for. And it is not that the other person

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Speaker 1: who's blameless, but yeah, just sort of an acknowledgement of

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Speaker 1: like I didn't know how to deal with this at

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Speaker 1: this time, and I might have hurt you because of it,

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Speaker 1: and I'm sorry. So one of the big ones is communication.

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Speaker 1: And it's so funny because we say that all the time,

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Speaker 1: and I feel like we all know it, but we

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Speaker 1: all make this mistake. And I didn't know what I

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Speaker 1: wanted and I didn't know how to speak up for it.

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Speaker 1: So I just would kind of like almost like a

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Speaker 1: kind of a flight or fright, like freeze sensation, but

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Speaker 1: I would make it appear as though, you know, I'll

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Speaker 1: just do whatever they want and make it look like

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Speaker 1: I want that thing to write because I didn't. I

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Speaker 1: didn't know. But that in turn lead to a building

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Speaker 1: up of issues and of almost resentment. I don't think

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Speaker 1: I ever really reached that where we didn't want the

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Speaker 1: same things, but we weren't communicating about it and we

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Speaker 1: were misunderstanding each other's like needs around it. And also

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Speaker 1: I'm just a very I'm not good in relationships either,

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Speaker 1: I guess are I. I am someone who's very um open,

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Speaker 1: and I will say things that perhaps you shouldn't. You

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Speaker 1: wouldn't say so I would. I remember one memory that

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Speaker 1: make it feels it makes me feel really bad, but

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Speaker 1: I was talking about somebody had a crush on to

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Speaker 1: my boyfriend. But it was just like I get crushes

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Speaker 1: and they they're like this and then they move on.

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Speaker 1: And it wasn't a thing to make him jealous. It

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Speaker 1: wasn't any but I get that that's what normally in

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Speaker 1: relationships it would be, and I feel I feel terribly

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Speaker 1: about it. I didn't mean it that way, but I'm

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Speaker 1: sure that it hurt and I did. It's right. I

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Speaker 1: think a part of that is being a sexual where

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Speaker 1: it's I know nothing's going to come of this thing,

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Speaker 1: and it's just sort of like, oh he loves dn

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Speaker 1: D and I love dn D and right now it's great,

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Speaker 1: and then I'll never see him again. And it'll suck.

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Speaker 1: But that's just how it is, right, I think, And

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Speaker 1: one of the big things that we don't talk about

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Speaker 1: enough in general when we talk about communications. Yes, so

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Speaker 1: we definitely need to do that. But part of the

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Speaker 1: thing with communication is being able to trust that you

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Speaker 1: can say it. And that's a big proponent that we

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Speaker 1: don't put a lot of stock in just because we

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Speaker 1: say it doesn't mean it's gonna be received well. And

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Speaker 1: if we're watching to see how it's received, that's part

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Speaker 1: of trust. And I think even though yes, we can

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Speaker 1: simply say communicate this will make things better, that's not

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Speaker 1: necessarily true. And a lot of that is guarding, which

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Speaker 1: is why you say you communicated you thought so and

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Speaker 1: so was fun and that it was a small crush

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Speaker 1: that was a huge mistake, and that that that kind

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Speaker 1: of that kind of leads to the conversation is Okay,

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Speaker 1: do I trust you enough and do you know me

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Speaker 1: well enough that when I say this you know what

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Speaker 1: is being said? And of course the communication part is

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Speaker 1: able to come back and be like, Okay, let's let's

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Speaker 1: talk about this. I was bothered. Can we sort through it?

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Speaker 1: And that's that's a big difference, is that. Yes, it's

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Speaker 1: a simple term is be honest, be open, but but

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Speaker 1: not to honest too open. Engage, engage what what is

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Speaker 1: being said and what is being heard. And that's part

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Speaker 1: of the problem. I'm in my head all of the

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Speaker 1: time thinking if I say this, this is going to

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Speaker 1: be a problem, right, and to the point that I

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Speaker 1: won't say it because I don't want to be a

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Speaker 1: part of problem. Right. And that has everything to do

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Speaker 1: with trust, and that's a whole different level, and it's

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Speaker 1: kind of is just a cyclical thing of if one

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Speaker 1: is without the other, you're not going to receive either.

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Speaker 1: So it's kind of that balance of understanding that and

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Speaker 1: with that communication being on the same page. And that's hard.

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Speaker 1: That's hard. Yeah, that's an excellent point because I think

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Speaker 1: one of the biggest things when I look back of

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Speaker 1: this relationship in particular, I was, is like, even if

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Speaker 1: I wanted to trust, and I think that there it

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Speaker 1: was a pretty safe space because of all this other

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Speaker 1: stuff I've gone through, I didn't completely trust and I

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Speaker 1: was too scared to even admit to myself that And

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Speaker 1: so I definitely didn't admit it because it's it was

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Speaker 1: kind of like a charade that I was. I was fine,

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Speaker 1: it's okay, but it wasn't fine. It wasn't okay. So

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Speaker 1: I think in this like when I told him about

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Speaker 1: the crush, even though I didn't mean it to be,

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Speaker 1: I do think there was a part of me being like,

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Speaker 1: let's just end this like or planning some kind of

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Speaker 1: like because at that point it had been many years

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Speaker 1: and it was kind of clear that something was amiss, right.

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Speaker 1: And and that's another thing when I look back, and Samantha,

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Speaker 1: you and I have talked about this before of I

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Speaker 1: am happy being single, and I am a very active person.

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Speaker 1: So a lot of times I would I would do

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Speaker 1: what I wanted to do over like I was kind

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Speaker 1: of selfish. I would support you. I was happy to

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Speaker 1: support people. Um, but if it like push came to

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Speaker 1: shove and I really didn't want to do the thing

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Speaker 1: that you wanted to do, I would do the thing

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Speaker 1: that I wanted to do. And it wasn't meant to

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Speaker 1: be a power play, but I can absolutely see how

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Speaker 1: how it could be. And and that again is just

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Speaker 1: I don't think I communicated well around. I was happy

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Speaker 1: with the relationship where it was in terms of I

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Speaker 1: have like a really great friend and we do stuff

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Speaker 1: together and we were really close, but the other person

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Speaker 1: wasn't happy, like wanted more, and so yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: even if I didn't realize it, it was kind of like, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to do my thing and it will be fine,

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Speaker 1: which isn't great, right, And I think that's one of

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Speaker 1: the other parts in any relationship is having things in common.

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Speaker 1: Commonalities are important, So if you can't do it together,

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Speaker 1: then you have the understanding of, oh, we're gonna do

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Speaker 1: our own thing, and that's cool too. So either it's

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Speaker 1: either or like it. It definitely is that level you

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Speaker 1: need to have an understanding or do the same things.

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Speaker 1: And I think I don't necessarily yes say this selfish,

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Speaker 1: especially if you don't do it in a level of

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Speaker 1: being open and on as a communicative about what's happening,

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Speaker 1: for sure, I think. And again, not great, not great relationships.

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Speaker 1: Still learning a lot, learning a lot about myself, but

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Speaker 1: understanding myself and knowing that, yeah, I'm the same way,

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Speaker 1: like like I'm gonna either do it or not, and

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Speaker 1: you can join or not, but I'm gonna give you

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Speaker 1: that same space and freedom and as long as we're

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Speaker 1: not having hurt feelings right. And I remember talking to

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Speaker 1: as a nanny. When I was a nanny, I I

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Speaker 1: was a nanny for a singer. He was a popular singer,

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Speaker 1: and the wife stayed at home and with the kids

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Speaker 1: and just did her own thing, um, and they were

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Speaker 1: able to afford nanny's and all of that, so he

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Speaker 1: would be gone for weeks at a time and it

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Speaker 1: was beautiful. She talked about how amazing the relationship was

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Speaker 1: because she had her time, hang out with her friends,

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Speaker 1: do her thing. He came home and she dedicated those

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Speaker 1: two weeks that she saw him per month to him

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Speaker 1: only and whatever he wanted to do. But then when

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Speaker 1: he left, she did her thing. And I was like, actually,

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Speaker 1: a really great setup. I want that right, right, It

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Speaker 1: could work as long as you understand yeah, exactly, yeah.

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Speaker 1: And I think that was part of my problem, as

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Speaker 1: I was also too in my head about this is

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Speaker 1: what a relationship looks like, this is what I've seen,

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Speaker 1: and this is what I've been told, and I was

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Speaker 1: trying to fit into that. But also at the same time,

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Speaker 1: I was really fighting it, even if I didn't recognize it.

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Speaker 1: I was like resisting it as hard as I could.

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Speaker 1: And we were in different spaces at different times in

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Speaker 1: all these relationships, and I didn't understand myself very well,

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Speaker 1: and I think that is pretty key if you want

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Speaker 1: healthy health the relationship. And I still catch myself getting

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Speaker 1: fomo of you know, what if I had what if

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Speaker 1: I had been in a different place, or what if

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Speaker 1: I had not been in such I was great at avoidance.

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Speaker 1: I still am great at avoidance, great a denial. But

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Speaker 1: if I hadn't done that and had like gone into

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Speaker 1: therapy earlier, are are all these different things? Could this

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Speaker 1: have been? Could I have been happy in this life?

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Speaker 1: And I don't think I made an incorrect decision, Like

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Speaker 1: I said, I don't think I wasted time. I learned

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Speaker 1: a lot. I hope they don't feel like they wasted time.

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Speaker 1: But whatever done matter. But at the same time, it's

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Speaker 1: hard not to think about those things, right, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I dedically I think I have one of those. I

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Speaker 1: only have really one of those, and the what ifs

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Speaker 1: turns out it's all in well, great, everything's fine, but

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Speaker 1: there's like I could have done this better. I wonder

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Speaker 1: what have happened if I would have opened myself up

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Speaker 1: a little more out of my own fears. But again,

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Speaker 1: what I am today, is that I should be. I

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Speaker 1: do feel that, yeah, and I it is. It is

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Speaker 1: funny to me how you can I feel such pressure

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Speaker 1: from society and be so close to somebody and I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I guess I wonder sometimes about the other

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Speaker 1: side of like the story that they are telling their friends.

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Speaker 1: I think about that too, Yes, how do they portray

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Speaker 1: me exactly? Exactly? And then on the other on the

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Speaker 1: other hand, I have been talking about this with some

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Speaker 1: friends that I hadn't previously talked about it before, and

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Speaker 1: they've been telling me some things where I'm like, wow,

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Speaker 1: I did not realize you felt this way about that person, Okay,

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Speaker 1: which is equally interesting. So yeah, yeah, I just wanted

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Speaker 1: to have take this space. You know. Apologies, it's a

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Speaker 1: boyfriend's past. I don't apologize. Samantha Firmley does not apologize. Um,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, recognizing giving my own self space to grow

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Speaker 1: and make mistakes. Relationships aren't easy and learning about yourself

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Speaker 1: as an easy. So here we are. We're just doing

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Speaker 1: the best we can. Yes, we are. Cheers to that

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Speaker 1: the best we can do, the best we can. Cheers Samantha,

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Speaker 1: And she's see you listeners. We would love to hear

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Speaker 1: any of your thoughts about this, You can email us

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Speaker 1: at Steffidia mom Stuff at I Hurt Me dot com.

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Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast

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Speaker 1: or on Instagram at Stuff I've Never Told You. Thanks

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Speaker 1: as always to our super producer Christina, thank you, and

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Speaker 1: thanks to you for listening Stuff I've Never Told You

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Speaker 1: his predction of iHeart Radio for more podcast and I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio because at the Heeart radio app, Apple podcast

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Speaker 1: and wherever you listen to your favorite shows