WEBVTT - Exploring America’s capitalism ‘problem’ with Rep. Katie Porter 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.600 I think there's a sense among Democrats that business isn't 0:00:03.640 --> 0:00:09.600 producing some of the things that we value, what equal opportunity, right, 0:00:10.119 --> 0:00:13.040 like the ability for for all people to prosper. But 0:00:13.119 --> 0:00:14.720 the solution to that is it to throw up in 0:00:14.760 --> 0:00:17.560 your hands and look the other direction. It's to scare 0:00:17.920 --> 0:00:21.599 people who have the ability to change that dead in 0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:25.800 the eye and push them to do it. So, if 0:00:25.840 --> 0:00:27.840 we think we have a problem with wealth and equality 0:00:27.840 --> 0:00:32.040 in this country, then let's ask a ceo, why do 0:00:32.200 --> 0:00:36.800 you deserve that paycheck? And I did that with a 0:00:36.800 --> 0:00:40.360 pharmacutical ceo, and you know what the answer was, The 0:00:40.400 --> 0:00:44.120 other guys get paid a lot too. That is not, 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:48.440 in a capitalist economy, a justification for a particular age. 0:00:48.800 --> 0:00:52.080 So we just have to be very very comfortable diving 0:00:52.120 --> 0:00:56.120 into these conversations. You have to be. In our country, 0:00:56.520 --> 0:01:00.240 capitalism and democracy are hand and glove, and a lot 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:02.680 of what's broken about our democracy is because things are 0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:07.399 broken in our capitalist system. Today we're gonna talk about 0:01:07.440 --> 0:01:11.800 capitalism and Congress. You know, capitalism has become completely warped 0:01:11.880 --> 0:01:16.319 in this country. The concentration of super wealth over the 0:01:16.400 --> 0:01:20.040 last twenty years is extraordinary, and we have seen big 0:01:20.080 --> 0:01:23.640 money influence bad policy. In the last four years, it 0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:27.119 has been absolutely out of control. But we'd be lying 0:01:27.160 --> 0:01:30.080 if we said all of that started four years ago, 0:01:30.600 --> 0:01:33.000 or eight years ago or ten years ago. We've seen 0:01:33.080 --> 0:01:36.960 big money influenced bad policy year after year, and it's 0:01:36.959 --> 0:01:39.640 only getting worse. This is one of the reasons so 0:01:39.680 --> 0:01:43.039 many people across the country say they don't trust their lawmakers. 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:47.920 I'm Stephanie Rule, MSNBC anchor, NBC News Senior correspondent, and 0:01:48.000 --> 0:01:51.160 this is Modern Rules, a podcast from NBC Think and 0:01:51.200 --> 0:01:58.960 I Heart Radio. But there is a member of Congress 0:01:58.960 --> 0:02:01.280 who I've gotten to know the last few years, who 0:02:01.400 --> 0:02:05.480 is determined to bring us back to the kind of 0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:08.639 capitalism or possibly bring us there for the first time 0:02:08.639 --> 0:02:12.040 where every American can succeed. We're working mothers can actually 0:02:12.080 --> 0:02:15.200 afford to go to work, where people from the poorest 0:02:15.200 --> 0:02:18.160 neighborhoods can go to better schools and potentially get really 0:02:18.160 --> 0:02:21.760 good jobs. Where we're in a situation where businesses can 0:02:21.840 --> 0:02:26.080 thrive but not control our government. That congress person is 0:02:26.160 --> 0:02:29.160 Katie Porter of Orange County, California. I'm so honored that 0:02:29.200 --> 0:02:31.720 she's here with me today. Congresswoman, I want to start 0:02:31.720 --> 0:02:34.600 with how are you. This has been an extraordinary a 0:02:34.600 --> 0:02:37.400 few weeks and before you being a member of Congress, 0:02:37.880 --> 0:02:41.000 you're a mom. What have the last few weeks been? Like, Yeah, 0:02:41.040 --> 0:02:43.839 it's hard to believe it's it's been a week. It's 0:02:43.880 --> 0:02:46.919 just been one week. Um, I was thinking about that, 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:49.440 you know that from when this happened, and you know, 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:51.680 at the at the end of the day, we were 0:02:51.760 --> 0:02:54.720 part of a workplace shooting. That's really what this was. 0:02:54.840 --> 0:02:58.360 This was a violent a talk. During that time, I 0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:01.079 was holed up in my office. UM. I was there 0:03:01.160 --> 0:03:05.639 with Alexandrio Kazio Cortez, and we barricaded the doors, we 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:08.680 turned the lights off. We had basically no information and 0:03:08.720 --> 0:03:12.200 we're in a dark, cold room together for six hours. 0:03:12.280 --> 0:03:14.160 And I think, you know a couple of things that 0:03:14.200 --> 0:03:16.640 will really stay with me is I texted my middle 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:19.560 son because he's twelve and he was home, so I 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:22.080 knew he would be seeing stuff because he's always glued 0:03:22.120 --> 0:03:24.640 to YouTube. I texted Paul and I said, Paul, you 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:29.520 know it's Mom. I'm okay, I'm I'm hiding. You know, 0:03:29.600 --> 0:03:33.200 everything's locked. And he said, okay, Mom, because I'm really worried. 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:35.400 And I said, well, you know here I took a 0:03:35.440 --> 0:03:38.760 picture of myself just to selfie and said, you know 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:41.520 here I am cm okay And he said, okay, good. 0:03:41.960 --> 0:03:44.400 And I just hope you have enough diet Dr Pepper 0:03:44.600 --> 0:03:47.440 to get you through this? Did you? I did? But 0:03:47.520 --> 0:03:50.600 it's just the sweet moment of under a can't understanding, 0:03:51.040 --> 0:03:54.520 like what his mom needs when she's stressed. Um. And 0:03:54.560 --> 0:03:56.560 then the other thing that will really stay with me 0:03:56.760 --> 0:04:00.360 is you know when when Alexandria Casio Cortes was in 0:04:00.400 --> 0:04:02.320 the hallway and she was looking for a place to 0:04:02.440 --> 0:04:06.720 go to be safe, right as we evacuated the Cannon building, 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:09.600 and she she asked if she could come in her 0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:12.680 office and shelter and I said, of course, um, and 0:04:12.680 --> 0:04:14.040 you know, we came in and she just had a 0:04:14.120 --> 0:04:17.480 very harrowing experience and she was a little rattled. And 0:04:17.560 --> 0:04:20.960 we locked the doors and locked the inner doors and 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:22.920 we were sitting there and I said, is there anything 0:04:22.960 --> 0:04:25.919 I can get you? You know, water, Um, I have 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:29.360 left over holiday chocolates that someone gave me. And she 0:04:29.400 --> 0:04:33.400 looked kind of whistfully at my shoes and I was 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:36.839 wearing antique sweats there might go to work shoes, and 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:39.680 she said, I just wish i'd warn flats so I 0:04:39.720 --> 0:04:43.320 would be better able to run away. And that really 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:45.839 hit me, like, this is what it's coming down to, 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:48.880 Like you dressing for work in a way that you 0:04:48.880 --> 0:04:52.160 could run if someone is shooting at you. And so 0:04:52.279 --> 0:04:54.840 we went and found her a pair of sneakers, um 0:04:54.960 --> 0:04:57.760 that belonged to my staffer, and she put those on, 0:04:57.960 --> 0:05:00.240 and she said, I feel so much better now because 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:05.440 I could run. Maybe I'm naive and romantic, but given 0:05:05.480 --> 0:05:08.760 the horrific events that took place in the Capitol last week, 0:05:09.440 --> 0:05:12.080 do you think that kind of trauma in some way 0:05:12.320 --> 0:05:15.200 could bring Congress together to work together? I thought about 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:17.560 this a lot. What does it mean that we went 0:05:17.600 --> 0:05:22.040 through that together? Um? I do want to observe one 0:05:22.120 --> 0:05:25.279 thing that was that was pretty obvious right there in 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:28.839 the moment. It has become obvious since then. Is people 0:05:28.920 --> 0:05:32.680 experienced that day very differently depending on if you were 0:05:32.720 --> 0:05:36.360 a man or you were a woman, you had been trained, 0:05:36.400 --> 0:05:39.520 you're a veteran of combat or not, you were a 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:43.120 person of color or a white person, And so you know, 0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:45.719 the reality is that the two parties are pretty different 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:47.920 in that regard. I think that you know a lot 0:05:47.960 --> 0:05:52.560 of white men didn't feel the same level of personalized 0:05:52.560 --> 0:05:58.000 threat and fear from that attack as you know, women 0:05:58.120 --> 0:06:00.840 or women of color, progressive women, whatever it is. And 0:06:00.880 --> 0:06:04.760 so you know we have the same experience. Um, that 0:06:04.800 --> 0:06:07.640 doesn't mean we had all the same takeaways from it. 0:06:07.880 --> 0:06:10.680 Did any of what happened that day make you think? 0:06:11.440 --> 0:06:13.840 Why am I doing this for a living? Yes, it's 0:06:13.839 --> 0:06:16.800 a huge honor to be elected a member of Congress. 0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:20.280 But you're an extraordinary woman. You're a law professor, you're 0:06:20.320 --> 0:06:23.800 a mom, and you just went through a workplace shooting. 0:06:24.560 --> 0:06:27.880 And now you've got members of Congress with you who 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:32.039 are queue and on sympathizers who refused to certify a 0:06:32.120 --> 0:06:34.760 free and fair election. Is any part of you saying 0:06:34.760 --> 0:06:36.599 why do I do this for a living? I think 0:06:37.000 --> 0:06:41.200 what I feel is really profound disappointment. I think this 0:06:41.360 --> 0:06:44.279 is the most disheartened I've been. You know, And I 0:06:44.400 --> 0:06:47.159 ran for Congress, and I ran this district that, like 0:06:47.279 --> 0:06:49.680 everybody was like, you can't win there. There hasn't been 0:06:49.680 --> 0:06:52.440 a Democrat there since the nineteen forties, and and I 0:06:52.480 --> 0:06:54.280 just was like, I'm gonna make it happen. I'll just 0:06:54.320 --> 0:06:57.800 try harder, and I'll make it happen. And even when 0:06:57.800 --> 0:07:00.360 I was serving and we were dealing with a Senate 0:07:00.360 --> 0:07:03.640 that was just broken and a president who was leading 0:07:03.680 --> 0:07:06.840 this country if we even use the word lead in 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:10.200 a really wrong direction, I kept kind of believing that 0:07:10.280 --> 0:07:11.840 I could do it, that I could make it better. 0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:14.800 And they think this is the first time in the 0:07:14.880 --> 0:07:16.800 four years, the two years that I was a candidate, 0:07:16.880 --> 0:07:19.920 the first two years of my service, where I've I've 0:07:19.960 --> 0:07:24.280 really just felt heartbroken. Another member called me this morning 0:07:24.320 --> 0:07:27.480 to check in, and I said, well, I do okay 0:07:27.520 --> 0:07:30.280 once I get out of bed I just don't want 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:33.200 to get out of bed um right now. But of 0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:34.840 course I have to, and I have to vote, and 0:07:34.880 --> 0:07:37.040 I have to vote to impeach this president. The work 0:07:37.080 --> 0:07:40.440 doesn't stop. If this were any other kind of workplace shooting, 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:43.680 it's hard to imagine that an hour or two after it, 0:07:44.080 --> 0:07:46.480 the boss would ask you to go back into the workplace. 0:07:47.240 --> 0:07:49.800 And yet that's what we did. We returned to that 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:53.360 building to take those votes at midnight, in the wee 0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:56.600 hours of the morning. How hard has this been this 0:07:56.720 --> 0:07:59.560 year been for you. You're a single parent and you've 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:02.280 got kids doing remote learning, and you're going back and 0:08:02.320 --> 0:08:05.000 forth to Washington. Yeah, I mean today is a really 0:08:05.200 --> 0:08:09.920 really special day. This is the first day since mid 0:08:10.000 --> 0:08:13.119 March when the school's closed that I have all three 0:08:13.240 --> 0:08:16.920 children in school at the same time. And I got 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:19.760 out this morning, I was like, oh my god, where 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:22.960 is somebody? Because there's always somebody who's not in school, 0:08:23.440 --> 0:08:26.440 So that has been hard. But look, I am so 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:30.040 fortunate I have in an excellent school system that has 0:08:30.040 --> 0:08:33.840 had the resources to do things like hand out pron books. No, 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:36.560 I mean in a neighborhood that's safe, when my kids 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:39.120 can go outside, um and there's a park and they 0:08:39.120 --> 0:08:43.319 can go play. This is so hard for so many 0:08:43.400 --> 0:08:46.520 people and so many kids, and disproportionately on those who 0:08:46.520 --> 0:08:50.600 are an overcrowded houses, on strange school systems, parents who 0:08:50.720 --> 0:08:53.760 cannot help their kids. And I just have the tiniest 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:56.120 taste of that, and I think about what it must 0:08:56.200 --> 0:08:59.480 be like for parents for whom English is not a 0:08:59.520 --> 0:09:02.360 dominant language, to try to help their kids with all 0:09:02.440 --> 0:09:05.560 of the whole work, all of the subjects. One of 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:09.280 the big mistakes of this pandemic was back in March 0:09:09.320 --> 0:09:13.600 and April, we should have been focusing immediately on how 0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:16.840 we were going to safely open schools and putting as 0:09:16.840 --> 0:09:20.559 many resources as we needed into providing them with ppe 0:09:20.840 --> 0:09:26.400 with extra classroom space. You know, even now teachers and vaccinations, e. 0:09:26.400 --> 0:09:30.000 They're supposed to go to a Walgreens, take the mobile 0:09:30.080 --> 0:09:33.640 vaccine vehicle, pull up to school and start giving teacher shots. 0:09:33.760 --> 0:09:36.400 Let's go, Well, let's talk about what's most important to 0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:38.480 you and what you want to get done in this job, 0:09:38.559 --> 0:09:42.040 because in the last week we have seen all sorts 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:46.679 of corporations pulled for the time being their donations, whether 0:09:46.760 --> 0:09:50.320 it's too strictly Republicans who didn't certify the election, or 0:09:50.360 --> 0:09:53.520 to both parties. But as any of this making you think, 0:09:53.559 --> 0:09:56.480 because I promise it's making me think, why the hell 0:09:56.520 --> 0:09:59.880 do corporations why are they giving so much money? And 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:04.000 way the system just seems so warped. Yeah. No, Look, 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:07.240 corporate paths shouldn't exist, and they say that for a 0:10:07.360 --> 0:10:10.559 number of reasons. You know, you don't have an ardent capitalist. 0:10:10.880 --> 0:10:14.840 And I've heard all the arguments about how you shareholder primacy. 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:18.080 It's all corporations exist for the purpose of raising money 0:10:18.120 --> 0:10:21.040 and making money for their shareholders. Now, I don't believe 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:24.440 that is the correct definition of a corporation. I reject 0:10:24.520 --> 0:10:27.120 that idea. But even if you buy into this rather 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:30.520 extreme idea that the only purpose, the only metric that 0:10:30.559 --> 0:10:35.040 corporations should have is doesn't benefit shareholders, tell me how 0:10:35.200 --> 0:10:40.680 shareholders benefit from giving money to elected officials who are 0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:44.120 trying to overthrow our government, which would be the demise 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:46.960 of the very economy that allows these companies to make money. 0:10:47.160 --> 0:10:51.360 Here's the stone cold fact. Corporations don't make donations in 0:10:51.520 --> 0:10:55.200 January or February of March of the off year. They 0:10:55.240 --> 0:10:58.840 make donations when it's closer to election time, so they're 0:10:58.880 --> 0:11:01.160 pausing giving them We're never going to do in the 0:11:01.200 --> 0:11:05.000 first place. So I am completely unimpressed by these kinds 0:11:05.000 --> 0:11:07.679 of shallow gestures. What I would like to see as 0:11:07.720 --> 0:11:11.760 corporations make very clear that they will not support people 0:11:12.200 --> 0:11:18.000 who spread disinformation, who urged the overturning of this election. Um, 0:11:18.000 --> 0:11:19.960 and I would just like to see corporations say, you 0:11:19.960 --> 0:11:22.160 know what, We're not gonna last through a path. We're 0:11:22.160 --> 0:11:25.040 gonna take that money, give it to our employees in 0:11:25.080 --> 0:11:29.200 the form of fire wages, our employees, whatever their political 0:11:29.280 --> 0:11:34.160 views might be, to participate in our democracy. We'll be 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:48.200 back after the break then what's a big focus for you? 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:50.680 So here you are Democrats have full control of the 0:11:50.720 --> 0:11:53.840 federal government. What is your focus? What do you want 0:11:53.880 --> 0:11:56.959 to get done? Because I know how much you care 0:11:57.679 --> 0:12:01.160 about getting corruption and green out of the system, how 0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:03.720 can you actually take it on. So one of the 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:07.080 answers here is obviously past HR one. Um. This was 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:09.600 the House bill that we introduced and passed the House 0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:13.480 last time. UM. That both addresses corruption. Um. It's the 0:12:13.559 --> 0:12:17.240 most sweeping anti corruption built since Watergate. Would also strengthen 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:19.840 voting rights, um, you know, and it would help get 0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:22.680 a dark money out of politics. Really important that we 0:12:22.840 --> 0:12:25.600 passed that again in the House because I now believe 0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:28.280 we have the votes in the Senate to actually see 0:12:28.320 --> 0:12:30.720 it become law. You know. The other thing I really 0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:34.280 focused on right now is, of course, our academy. I'm 0:12:34.320 --> 0:12:37.240 interested in thinking about what really is happening to families 0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:40.480 right now and how these numbers translate on the ground. 0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:42.920 And one of the things that we are seeing that 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:47.240 is just a huge, huge consequence of COVID. It's not 0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:51.959 just job loss, but job loss that is concentrated on 0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:56.320 brown and black women in particular, And you know that 0:12:56.440 --> 0:13:01.520 is a really really potentially enduring consequence of this, and 0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:04.480 so it's really important that we think about what's this 0:13:04.559 --> 0:13:08.400 mean for our economy, for the global competitiveness of our economy. 0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:10.800 That women are stepping out of the workforce, are being 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:13.240 forced out of the workforce because they can't afford or 0:13:13.280 --> 0:13:17.680 find childcare, because they're not safe in their workplace. Mackenzie 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:20.360 the consulting company, right, this is about a feminist you know, 0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:24.760 leading institution said that did a study recently and found 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:29.120 that one in four women are contemplating leaving the workforce. 0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:32.200 So we need to get a handle on this. And 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:36.400 it means understanding the phenomenon. Is it really about um 0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:38.920 the wages and the wage gap? People are needing to 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:41.720 pull one parent home, and they're pulling the lower earning person, 0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:44.560 and this is just reinforcing the gender pick up. I 0:13:44.600 --> 0:13:47.200 don't know, but I intend to find out. And one 0:13:47.200 --> 0:13:49.320 of the things I am really excited about with the 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:53.440 Biden administration is the way that they're conceiving of and 0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:58.280 talking about child care as infrastructure. It's just really really 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:00.920 important that we start thinking about it that way, that 0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:03.280 we start understanding it that way, and we start making 0:14:03.320 --> 0:14:08.400 investments not just in help care centers and the people 0:14:08.480 --> 0:14:11.200 who do this work. Do you think we've made a 0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:13.960 mistake Year after year we're patting ourselves on the back 0:14:14.000 --> 0:14:17.880 when we start to address maternity leave, paternity leave, but 0:14:17.960 --> 0:14:23.120 that's twelve weeks. We're responsible for our children for eighteen years, 0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:27.960 and forget wages while kids are doing remote learning. It's 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:30.920 for so many of us impossible to just leave our 0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:32.960 kids to do it on their own. So there's a 0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:35.960 lot of parents, specifically moms who because of COVID just 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:37.800 have to go home. Look, I mean I think that 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:41.840 things like paper and to leave. Really, I mean pat 0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:44.640 ourselves on the back for getting their thirty forty fifty 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:47.320 years later than a lot of other countries. We need 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:51.840 to think about how to become global leaders in developing 0:14:51.880 --> 0:14:55.360 and retaining a top quality workforce. And you are not 0:14:55.440 --> 0:14:59.680 going to have a top quality workforce when you exclude women. 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:02.440 You're just not. And there's a lot of research in 0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:06.360 virtually every industry, corporations that have women on their boards 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:10.480 of directors take a less risk and then this is 0:15:10.520 --> 0:15:14.600 my favorite fact, make more money. So just overall, we 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:18.640 see that in the medicine, women physicians communicate with their 0:15:18.680 --> 0:15:21.840 patients differently, they're better listeners that were likely to pick 0:15:21.880 --> 0:15:25.120 up on certain kinds of diagnoses. I think women legislators 0:15:25.360 --> 0:15:27.960 are are different and how we do our job. So 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:32.040 we just stopped talking about this as just a women's issue, 0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:36.560 although the disproportionate harmies on women, and instead say, if 0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:41.400 we want to have a strong, stable capitalist economy, we 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:44.680 have to make sure that women and men have equal opportunity, 0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:48.640 equal pay, equal support in the workforce. I do want 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:51.840 to ask you about the Cares Act and now the 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:55.720 next stimulus spill. It's not like we haven't spent any money. 0:15:55.880 --> 0:15:59.640 We've spent trillions of dollars. Yet the one thing we 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:02.800 keep hearing from government is we need more. Is it 0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:05.040 that we need more or do we need to do 0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:06.880 a little bit of a better job looking at all 0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:10.760 the money we've spent. There is an oversight committee that 0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:13.000 I haven't actually heard from them. There is a committee 0:16:13.040 --> 0:16:16.040 dedicated to oversight of the CARES funding. But there was 0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:19.280 a structural problem right from the start, which is the 0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:22.720 the chairperson of that committee, without which they can't hire 0:16:22.800 --> 0:16:26.080 staff and they can't really be effective, was to be 0:16:26.200 --> 0:16:30.960 a person agreed upon by Mitch McConnell and Nancy Pelosi. 0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:34.720 In other words, the chair was supposed to be like 0:16:34.800 --> 0:16:37.040 a unicorn, and we're are we gonna find this person. 0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:39.760 So the reality is that committee has not been as 0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:42.120 effective as it should be because there was a structural 0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:46.280 problem in the creation of it. But I also think 0:16:46.560 --> 0:16:48.200 that we need to take a hard look. And I've 0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:49.840 been pushing on this for a long time. You and 0:16:49.880 --> 0:16:52.040 I have a lot of conversations about this, But the 0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:57.520 Paycheck Protection Program I think was not optimally designed or 0:16:57.560 --> 0:17:00.720 administered from the get go, and there were whole range 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:04.080 of problems, from allowing Congress members to get p p 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:07.160 P loans to the fact that there is a more 0:17:07.160 --> 0:17:11.720 effective way to keep people employed, which is an approach 0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:15.240 that European countries used that we call paycheck recovery or 0:17:15.280 --> 0:17:20.560 paycheck guarantee, which simply provides money to businesses to help 0:17:20.600 --> 0:17:23.520 them make payroll. That money would pass directly through the 0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:28.159 payroll system into people's pockets. The Paycheck Protection Program was 0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:32.240 much too attenuated, and it was too slow to roll out, 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:34.600 and I think it should have been ombious to everybody 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:37.440 that that the Small Business Administration was not going to 0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:39.480 be ready to administer this that it was gonna be 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:42.359 a ramp up period. So I do think that we 0:17:42.400 --> 0:17:46.080 have a duty to ask what happened to every dollar? 0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:51.359 Was it spent effectively? Didn't really help um? And if not, 0:17:51.600 --> 0:17:54.480 to rethink these programs, then talk to us about this. 0:17:54.680 --> 0:17:57.280 I'm gonna call it third lane that you're in, right 0:17:57.320 --> 0:18:01.639 there's a lot of traditional Democrats, there's very progressive Democrats. 0:18:01.680 --> 0:18:06.160 Within progressive Democrats, there's the squad anti big business. As 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:09.359 you said earlier, you're a very proud capitalist. Can you 0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:12.960 talk about that and your sort of ideology Because the 0:18:13.000 --> 0:18:15.720 average person on the street, and if you watched Fox News, 0:18:15.800 --> 0:18:19.160 they would tell you, oh, you know, younger lawmakers like you, 0:18:19.160 --> 0:18:23.400 you're part of this socialist movement. You're not, but you're 0:18:23.440 --> 0:18:26.320 not feeling good about the capitalist society we're in right now? 0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:29.320 So can you help us understand? Yeah, a lot of 0:18:29.320 --> 0:18:34.720 this is really understanding what is the capitalist economy that 0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:40.280 people who are nineteen twenty nine, thirty nine, even me, 0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:43.920 I just turned forty seven. What's the coupitalist economy that 0:18:44.000 --> 0:18:47.160 we have seen in this country? What if we lived 0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:51.600 through We've lived through a lock of enforcement of antitrust laws, 0:18:52.119 --> 0:18:56.760 unprecedented consolidation of market power, more and more barriers and 0:18:56.840 --> 0:19:01.199 hardships on small businesses being able to compete, regulation of 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:06.000 investor protection laws, the removal of consumer protection laws. People 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:11.159 my age do not have the trust in banks or 0:19:11.240 --> 0:19:15.880 businesses that people a generation or two before us did, 0:19:16.480 --> 0:19:19.000 and there's no reason for that because those industries have 0:19:19.119 --> 0:19:24.119 abused the very capitalist economy, the workers, the consumers that 0:19:24.160 --> 0:19:28.719 have allowed them to profit. Younger people are skeptical about 0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:34.639 capitalism for good reason, because our capitalist system isn't producing opportunity, 0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:40.560 it's producing inequality. Our capitalist system isn't producing price competition, 0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:45.440 it's producing monopoly power. So we have to be straight 0:19:45.520 --> 0:19:49.040 about what's broken and that it can be fixed. There 0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:51.480 are tools that we have to fix it, and that 0:19:51.600 --> 0:19:53.399 we're going to fight to use those tools, and we 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:56.080 are not going to blink in the face of corporate 0:19:56.080 --> 0:19:59.199 power to do it. And I think that is a 0:19:59.240 --> 0:20:05.560 way to acknowledge the skepticism, the heartache, the suffering of 0:20:05.680 --> 0:20:09.719 a lot of people in today's capitalist economy without losing 0:20:10.359 --> 0:20:14.040 what a different generation. You know, my grandparents generation saw, 0:20:14.280 --> 0:20:18.760 which was unbelievable economic growth and opportunity. If I say 0:20:18.800 --> 0:20:22.080 this to my grandparents and the last were just guide 0:20:22.200 --> 0:20:23.960 for COVID. But I used to say this to my 0:20:24.000 --> 0:20:29.680 grandparents all the time. I didn't get what you got. 0:20:30.560 --> 0:20:34.080 So my grandparents went to college. They worked in the 0:20:34.160 --> 0:20:37.920 summer and earned enough to pay their tuition. That's not 0:20:38.040 --> 0:20:41.560 possible now, and it should be. And if it were, 0:20:42.320 --> 0:20:44.679 that would be an economy that was really developing the 0:20:44.680 --> 0:20:47.960 potential of every worker. That would be a capitalist economy 0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:51.200 that's really investing in more marketplaces. From what I've learned 0:20:51.200 --> 0:20:53.280 about you over the last few years, everything you are 0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:57.280 most interested in is about putting people first. Given the 0:20:57.320 --> 0:21:03.360 amount of money and lobby influence in politics, how can 0:21:03.400 --> 0:21:07.800 you actually make those changes? We've all seen you ask 0:21:07.880 --> 0:21:11.800 the most extraordinary questions to these business guys in these hearings. 0:21:12.400 --> 0:21:16.320 We watched them squirm, but then they walk out, get 0:21:16.359 --> 0:21:19.200 on their corporate plane and go home to their big, fat, 0:21:19.200 --> 0:21:24.360 cushy life. Does change actually occur? And I love when 0:21:24.359 --> 0:21:27.520 they come to testify before Well, here's where I think 0:21:27.520 --> 0:21:31.159 the change comes. When I had this back and forth 0:21:31.440 --> 0:21:34.600 with the president of JP Morgan Chase Jamie Diamond, he's 0:21:34.640 --> 0:21:38.639 a very bright man and he's a good business leader 0:21:38.680 --> 0:21:41.199 in many many ways. When I had the back and 0:21:41.240 --> 0:21:46.160 forth with him about whether his lower wage employees could 0:21:46.200 --> 0:21:48.520 make ends meet, and I definitely started to him how 0:21:48.560 --> 0:21:51.600 hard it would be, if not impossible, for them. Did 0:21:51.600 --> 0:21:54.600 he did? He in the moment, didnt crock and promised 0:21:54.600 --> 0:21:57.760 that he would race wages? He did not. Well, I 0:21:57.800 --> 0:21:59.959 hope the next time they go to make a decision 0:22:00.280 --> 0:22:02.640 about whether to give their employees a wage or not, 0:22:03.600 --> 0:22:07.720 I'm on their mind. Unless we actually change the rules. 0:22:08.720 --> 0:22:10.840 Do you think businesses are going to operate in a 0:22:10.880 --> 0:22:14.159 different way, Because at the end of the day, the 0:22:14.200 --> 0:22:18.080 way it is currently structured, right, CEOs need to perform 0:22:18.160 --> 0:22:21.919 for their shareholders. The way they're compensated is tied to 0:22:22.000 --> 0:22:24.719 this value of the stock of their company. They're not 0:22:24.880 --> 0:22:29.199 currently incentivized to put their employees first. And even if 0:22:29.240 --> 0:22:31.880 they say all the right things, and even after that exchange, 0:22:31.920 --> 0:22:34.680 if Jamie and Diamond thinks a little harder, the next 0:22:34.720 --> 0:22:37.520 time he makes a big decision at the end of 0:22:37.520 --> 0:22:40.840 the day, is he really going to change his behavior 0:22:40.960 --> 0:22:44.600 unless regulation forces him to do so. Watch Much more 0:22:44.680 --> 0:22:48.320 importantly than my interaction with him was the fact that 0:22:48.560 --> 0:22:54.800 millions and millions of Americans said that's me, this woman 0:22:54.960 --> 0:22:58.480 understands what it's like to work all day and come 0:22:58.560 --> 0:23:01.880 home and not be able to pay the bills. They 0:23:01.920 --> 0:23:06.320 felt heard and seen and recognized by their government, and 0:23:06.359 --> 0:23:09.119 as a result of that, they got just a little 0:23:09.119 --> 0:23:12.760 bit more engaged. It's not my exchange with the CEL 0:23:12.840 --> 0:23:16.399 that matters. It's whether my exchange with the CEO gives 0:23:16.440 --> 0:23:21.280