1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:02,880 Speaker 1: The Michael Barry Joe, is there any part of the 2 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:06,400 Speaker 1: Bible you think it's true? Well, no, it's an important question. 3 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:10,120 Speaker 1: So when they were documenting King David, like King David. 4 00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:13,400 Speaker 2: A real thing, there are there are shards of it that. 5 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 3: Are I'm sure Jesus was a real person. 6 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:18,200 Speaker 4: Well that we don't know. That is not a definitive Okay, 7 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:19,159 Speaker 4: so it really is not. 8 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 3: Like take Paul. 9 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:22,480 Speaker 1: We both agree Paul was legit and a real person. 10 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:25,960 Speaker 1: Paul was a Jew, persecuted Jews, and then had his 11 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: you know, wrote the Damascus Moment. Why would he do 12 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:33,880 Speaker 1: that except for the fact that he's crazy or like delusional. 13 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 1: What incentive would Paul have to do that rich ruling 14 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 1: class gave up everything. 15 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 4: You know you're saying to me, there is there never 16 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 4: a case of human delusion or mass delusion or people condition. 17 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 3: Why suicide cults. Of course, I acknowledge that. 18 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 4: The capacity, the human capacity to believe what's not true, 19 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 4: to believe what you want to believe, is infinite. I mean, 20 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:05,120 Speaker 4: you are literally the person I'm talking about at the 21 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 4: very beginning of the movie Religious because the very first scene, 22 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:11,560 Speaker 4: I'm sitting in the car and I'm saying that the 23 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 4: movie is not a spiritual quest. I mean that's what 24 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 4: we told them, so they'd signed the release. The movie 25 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:20,480 Speaker 4: is me saying, I don't know how it could be 26 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 4: that so many intelligent people can wall off a part 27 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 4: of their mind and believe in something that part of 28 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:30,319 Speaker 4: their mind must know is not true. That's the question 29 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:33,759 Speaker 4: I'm going for in religious and like, you're obviously a. 30 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:36,679 Speaker 1: Super smart and respectfully, you go ahead try and again. 31 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 2: I don't want to insult you on that. 32 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 1: You said no, I mean, go to college campus, nothing right, 33 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 1: but you understand my question. Interestingly, ironically, I have the 34 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 1: same struggle. I don't know how somebody as intelligent as you, 35 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 1: and I'm not trying to offend you, you could not 36 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 1: believe in time out hold on. All of that takes faith, 37 00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 1: I acknowledge, but that all of the fine tuning of 38 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 1: our universe if any of those fine tunings were off 39 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 1: A famous a famous sign of a famous scientist said 40 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:12,240 Speaker 1: to believe that the universe and the Earth in its 41 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:15,680 Speaker 1: current composition was an act of randomness, would believe that 42 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 1: a hurricane would go through a junkyard and assemble a 43 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 1: seven thirty seven flight ready Boeing he's wrong. Okay, that's fine, 44 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: But there are so many fine tuning aspects to our 45 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:29,920 Speaker 1: existence that I think defy the idea that this is 46 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:31,640 Speaker 1: all randomness and all chance. 47 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 2: Now you know that's not logical. 48 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 4: You're saying, because I don't know the answer, I'm going 49 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 4: to assume the answer must be that a divine intervention 50 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 4: did it. That's not really a scientific way. They're looking 51 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 4: at the cosmo. 52 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:48,959 Speaker 1: So the cosmo, the teleological view, not the cosmological view, 53 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 1: is that all of these fine tunings, when layered up 54 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 1: one after the other, it defies I think reason to 55 00:02:57,480 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 1: think that this is just a roll of the dice. 56 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:01,799 Speaker 1: That when you see a baby come into the world, 57 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:04,800 Speaker 1: when you see how we naturally heal, when you even 58 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 1: consciousness itself, I think is a pretty miraculous thing to 59 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:12,920 Speaker 1: think that's all just a bunch of but if happy accidents. 60 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 1: But I mean, I think it's more rational to think 61 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 1: that that's a byproduct of design. 62 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 4: You're saying, some prime mover made it so, these made 63 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 4: it so, these things happen. I would say, if a 64 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:29,239 Speaker 4: prime mover could do that, whytn't skip all the suffering? 65 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 4: And why don't you just get us to where we're 66 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 4: the perfect thing. Why you need things? I don't know, 67 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 4: but okay, the perfect being right away, we're somehow on 68 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 4: this journey to being you know, completely immortal and healthy, 69 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 4: I guess, and completely moral and don't fuck each other 70 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 4: up and don't have sex with children and all the 71 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 4: bad things. 72 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 3: All the evil of our well, yeah. 73 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 4: All the evil and the Holocaust and why go through 74 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 4: all that? If you are a prime over I assume 75 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 4: that means you can do anything and just get us 76 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 4: right to the end, and then we can just what 77 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 4: why just a bunch of us walking around being perfect? 78 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 4: I mean, why is that interesting to a god? You know? 79 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 2: The whole thing just don't make sense? 80 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 4: I get. 81 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 1: So that's that's a separate question, though, of whether or 82 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 1: not there is something behind our existence. I mean, so 83 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 1: we believe that the universe started with a big bang. 84 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 1: Do you agree with that? 85 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, but that's not the beginning of things. That's just 86 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:29,839 Speaker 4: the beginning of what the known universe is. The big 87 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 4: question is what was before that? 88 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:36,039 Speaker 1: And we believe it's a a god, right, that's always 89 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 1: that's a constant. 90 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:40,040 Speaker 2: And look, I mean, you know the miss. 91 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 4: No more about atheism is that we say oh there's 92 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 4: no God. No, we just we just say we don't know. 93 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:51,160 Speaker 4: As Richard Dawkins always says, there's theism, which is belief 94 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 4: in gods, and they used to believe in many and 95 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 4: then it got to one, and we just believe in 96 00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:59,040 Speaker 4: one less. So there's just just not. 97 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:01,920 Speaker 3: How you differentiate that from agnosticism. 98 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 4: There isn't. Oh that's that's another thing. That's bullshit. 99 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 3: No, I don't. I'm just question No. 100 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 4: I think a lot of atheists think that a lot 101 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 4: of people on my team with this, they have that 102 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:15,279 Speaker 4: view that, you know, don't split hairs with the atheists 103 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:18,679 Speaker 4: and the agnostics. It's like it's we're on some part 104 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 4: of I don't know, and I really and I'll never know. 105 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 4: So I really don't think about it a lot. I 106 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 4: don't get up for church. I try to be a 107 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 4: good person because I just think intrinsically it's it's good 108 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 4: for society. It's good for me to be a good 109 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:36,039 Speaker 4: person as much as I can, and I don't need 110 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:39,280 Speaker 4: the threat of the pitchfork in the ass to do it. 111 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 3: I can. I ask a question, so, how how. 112 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 2: Watch baseball live like a super fan with gaind. 113 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 1: Av But you even acknowledge though, that some people act 114 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 1: better if they feel as if they'll be judged a 115 00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 1: turmain totally. Okay, No, that's that's a bit. That's a 116 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 1: big admission. But how do you think society best determines 117 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 1: what is good? 118 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 4: That's a great question. I mean, isn't that what government 119 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 4: is always wrestling with? What makes society good? 120 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 1: Do you think even as an atheist the Ten Commandments? 121 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 1: The right side of the Ten Commandments is a good 122 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:19,840 Speaker 1: place to start, right well, because the left side, I 123 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 1: think you'd have a big problem. 124 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 2: Right, I have a. 125 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:24,599 Speaker 4: Problem with with eight of the ten because only two 126 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:25,479 Speaker 4: of them are laws. 127 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:27,239 Speaker 3: You've got a problem with eight of the ten. 128 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:29,159 Speaker 2: Two of them are laws? Only two? 129 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:31,479 Speaker 3: What do you mean? Don't kill and don't steal? 130 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:32,599 Speaker 4: Okay, and don't steal? 131 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 2: Sure, Like I mean this idea that God is that. 132 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 3: You're good with those two? 133 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:41,279 Speaker 4: Like the first four are just jealous? God should It's 134 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:41,840 Speaker 4: just like. 135 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:45,119 Speaker 3: You know what, honoring your parents is not jealous Gods. 136 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 4: God's like a pimp who was in the next room 137 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 4: and he said, who are you on the phone with there? 138 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: Girl? 139 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:54,920 Speaker 2: You know, I mean, I guess I'm testing that one. 140 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 1: But no, it's again, I'm not offendable on this, but 141 00:06:57,800 --> 00:06:59,280 Speaker 1: I think you could have. I know you've made fun 142 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 1: of it religious, but there's something beautiful about not working 143 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: for a day. 144 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 4: Oh Sabbath, Oh a week, it's even better. But well, 145 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 4: the Sabbath, no, I mean, the Sabbath. 146 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 3: Is slowing down and saying that we're not toil for that. 147 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 4: But do you need why would you need a religion 148 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 4: to get to that? Why would you need a religion 149 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 4: to Hey, let's not kill each other and. 150 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 2: Take a day off. 151 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 4: Like I again, I don't need a threat or a 152 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 4: garret for that. 153 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 2: Just it's just so intrinsic. 154 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 4: It's it sort of reminds me of the beginning of 155 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 4: the Declaration of Independence. 156 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 1: If it's intrinsic, then why is it that a lot 157 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 1: of countries that don't have Christianity struggle to come to 158 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 1: these realizations that, for example, you know, communist China, we're 159 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 1: no Hitler analogies right under MAO, which was which was 160 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 1: resolutely atheist. 161 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 4: Right resolutely Yeah, I mean, well, no, I did a 162 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 4: monologue in religious I. 163 00:07:57,440 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 3: Might have Confucianism online. 164 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 4: I did a monolog and religionous about that very subject, 165 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 4: which is the people will say, oh, Bell, these atheistic 166 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 4: societies like North Korea and no, those kind of societies, 167 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 4: they just replaced the leader of the country for a god. 168 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 4: They are not atheistic. When you look at what the 169 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 4: Korean the North Korean people believe about Kim Jong's. 170 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 3: It's a deification. 171 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 4: It's a I mean completely the same shit that he 172 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 4: when he was born, winter turned to spring. 173 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:32,560 Speaker 3: He once he'll be a mortal in the heaven. 174 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 2: First time he. 175 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 4: Played golf, he got eleven holes in one. He invented 176 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:37,559 Speaker 4: the hamburger. 177 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 3: I'm not making that more improbable than a virgin birth. 178 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:43,079 Speaker 2: It is, it really is. I'm not making this up. 179 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 2: But they believe that. 180 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 4: So don't tell me North Korea is a theistic They're 181 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 4: not atheistic, but they there is a in China at least, 182 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 4: and of course in the Soviet Union there was a 183 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 4: anti Christian movement, very hard, very hard. 184 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 1: Okay, So I guess, like, what code And I'm not 185 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 1: saying this sarcastically, like what code? What book do you 186 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 1: think is best for humanity to live by? I say 187 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 1: the Bible? 188 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:11,319 Speaker 3: What would you say? No, it's an important, it's important 189 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 3: philosophical question. 190 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:14,679 Speaker 2: I have a book called not the Bible. 191 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:19,679 Speaker 1: They're not loving your neighbor and not like you know, 192 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 1: there's a lot of good stuff. 193 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 3: Okay, but again, let me tell you why, man. 194 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 2: You're cherry picking. 195 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 1: The story of the Bible is one of love and redemption. 196 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 1: There's a lot in the Bible. 197 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 4: It is. 198 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:32,680 Speaker 3: It's a story of love. 199 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 2: The Old Testament. 200 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 3: Well, the entire arc of the Bible is a story 201 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 3: of love and a need for humans redemption. 202 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:41,440 Speaker 2: Well, that's a charitable way of looking at it. 203 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 4: And that's in there. There's a lot of things in 204 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 4: there because it's a giant anthology over centuries of many 205 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 4: different writers. 206 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 3: There is a lot in the Bible. 207 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 4: There is. 208 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 2: It wasn't written by God, right. 209 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 3: There's a book of the Bible. I think you'd love. 210 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:56,960 Speaker 4: Song of Solomon, Song of Solomon, Chris Weasels and Nash. 211 00:09:57,600 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 3: Song of Solomon's all about sex. 212 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:01,440 Speaker 2: I know it is, Yeah, quote it. 213 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 3: I can't it's not it's not appropriate. 214 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 1: No, no, it's there's true journey for a moodcast. It 215 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:11,200 Speaker 1: literally is about how a husband and wife can grow 216 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 1: intimate to one another. 217 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 3: And there's a. 218 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 2: Oh can you tell me that? Can you give me 219 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 2: the cheat cheet on that one? 220 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:18,839 Speaker 1: Oh, it's I'm telling you the Bible has wisdom and 221 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 1: ways you might never imagine Bill. But No. What I'm saying, though, 222 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:24,959 Speaker 1: is that human This is not a gotcha of sarcasm. 223 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 1: I mean this, like humanity will seek to find a book, 224 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 1: they'll seek to find a code to live by. Okay, 225 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:33,960 Speaker 1: I think it's incumbent on atheists to tell us what 226 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 1: that should be. 227 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 4: I agree with the first part of that. Humanity will 228 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 4: seek to find. 229 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 3: Seek to know. That's Aristotle's first. 230 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:45,440 Speaker 4: Well, seek to find something that mollifies their feelings. That's 231 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 4: different than knowing. No, they don't really care about knowing. 232 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 4: They care about mollifying their feelings. I feel empty. What 233 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 4: will make me feel better? This book that purports to 234 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 4: have answers it couldn't possibly we have. But it does 235 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:04,080 Speaker 4: make me feel better because now I don't have to 236 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:07,440 Speaker 4: wonder about things that are very problematic to worry about, 237 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 4: like how did I get here? 238 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:09,680 Speaker 2: And what does it all mean? 239 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 4: And why do you know kids get fucking cancer when 240 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:13,720 Speaker 4: they're two? 241 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 3: For No, I don't have an answer, right. 242 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 4: I know, I'm just saying, and now this book has 243 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 4: the answers to that question. Don't ask, don't ask A 244 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 4: and b. God works in mysterious ways, and that's the 245 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 4: end of it. 246 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 2: Go to your room. 247 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:32,719 Speaker 1: I think it's a little deeper than that, but it is. 248 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 1: I mean it is deeper, of course, it's that, hey, 249 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:38,440 Speaker 1: why are we here? Why were we created? But fair enough, 250 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 1: I do want to know, though, But like what. 251 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 2: I don't got it for you. I mean, we don't 252 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 2: have it and we don't claim. 253 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 1: But that's a big because though it's a it's a 254 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:50,840 Speaker 1: because let me pause, Because the Bible was the document 255 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 1: as you acknowledged that our founders read and believed that 256 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: built this beautiful society that you and I both love. 257 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 1: And I think it's try to dangerous if we want 258 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 1: to a cut our roots without an alternative, because if 259 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 1: we cut our roots then we get all this other 260 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:11,439 Speaker 1: counterfeit stuff of wocism and all this postmodernist garbage. So 261 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 1: our contention is, let's go back to where we came from. 262 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:18,680 Speaker 4: You know who Eugeno nail is? 263 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 2: No Eugene O'Neil uh No. 264 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 4: Oh wow, kids, today a giant of American literature theater 265 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:32,840 Speaker 4: A Long Day's Journey in tonight? Have you heard of 266 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 4: that play? Never heard of Long Day's journey in tonight. 267 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 4: You kids, what are they doing with you in school? 268 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:41,680 Speaker 4: I never went to college. Bill, this is the problem. Okay. Anyway, 269 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 4: he once said, a life I find a life with 270 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 4: illusions unpardonable, and a life without illusions unbearable. 271 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:57,680 Speaker 1: When I started prodigy here in second grade, my mask 272 00:12:57,760 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 1: I rocketed. 273 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 4: Sometimes they start getting And that's the essence of where 274 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 4: we are. You choose the second, I choose the first. 275 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 4: I find a life with illusions unpardonable. I just can't 276 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 4: do it, okay, And you find a life without illusions unbearable. 277 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 4: And the fact that we can, I think, come to 278 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 4: this moment where we go, okay, that's you type a 279 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:26,839 Speaker 4: I'm type and still be friends to me. This is 280 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:28,599 Speaker 4: the future of where this country is. 281 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:32,200 Speaker 3: Nothing you have said has offended me, and I appreciate. 282 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:36,680 Speaker 4: And I appreciate that because again that was my question 283 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:40,440 Speaker 4: in religions, how can otherwise really super smart people? 284 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:45,520 Speaker 1: But this is the answer, Like, and can I interrupt? 285 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:48,080 Speaker 1: Do you doubt those of us that have had religious experiences? 286 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:51,560 Speaker 1: Do you think it's just like neurological phenomenon? How would 287 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 1: you say that Jesus changed my life? Yeah, but it's 288 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 1: going to work with my soul. 289 00:13:56,559 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 4: Okay, but was he like getting did he come in 290 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 4: the car with you at the drive through? You know, like, okay, 291 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,040 Speaker 4: it's what you said, a religious experience. I have to 292 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 4: ask how much that is. 293 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 1: There was a moment where I realized that I'm not 294 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 1: all that I would ever want to be, that I 295 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 1: fall short of the glory of God's wish And when 296 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 1: was this? 297 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:18,319 Speaker 3: When I was in fifth grade? Actually fifth grade? 298 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:18,840 Speaker 4: Really? 299 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, you when I gave my life to the Lord. 300 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 2: You were thinking about this shit in fifth grade? 301 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 3: I went to Christian school. 302 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 4: So you don't see that as a doctrination. 303 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 1: Well, you know, I actually went to a private school previously, 304 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 1: but they didn't force it on us. 305 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 3: So their credit. 306 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 4: No, but you said you were in a Christian school. Okay, 307 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 4: you're ten, You're in a Christian school. There's no connection 308 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 4: of like maybe at a very early age they put 309 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 4: a chip in your brain. 310 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: I mean, I still had to make the decision for 311 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:50,240 Speaker 1: myself there and to the credit. And there's a lot 312 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 1: of kids that went to that school that aren't Christians anymore. 313 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 4: And so by the way, I went to Catholic, I 314 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 4: was raised Catholic, I went it didn't stick. I had 315 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 4: the opposite reaction to c kissing, which was religious training 316 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 4: we would go to on Sunday morning where you would 317 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 4: learn how to be a good Catholic. And it just 318 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:10,359 Speaker 4: really turned me off to these. 319 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 3: Was it too forceful, too legalistic? 320 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 4: Like I mean, it was just a giant I mean 321 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 4: I was used to a room with twenty kids in 322 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 4: it at regular school, and then on Sunday there's like 323 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 4: sixty kids and they're from different schools and they're just like, 324 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 4: that's like and the nuns were like mean because you 325 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 4: got sixty kids that you don't really know, you have 326 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 4: to like and of course they're mean to begin with 327 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 4: to like get them in order, and they scared you, 328 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 4: and they yelled at you, and they hit you with 329 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:39,240 Speaker 4: a ruler on the knuckles. I really I'm from that 330 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 4: era where they still like fucking hit you on. 331 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 1: The Now, how often I hear the rulers from like, 332 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 1: like I mean, scorn Catholics. The ruler is like a 333 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 1: very common thing. 334 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 4: Again, the idea that you keep people in line, it's 335 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 4: by fear, that's why you're keeping people in line. And 336 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 4: that's a question and an atheist, really, I think is 337 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 4: due to ask a religious person, do you really think 338 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 4: fear is the best way for us to grow and 339 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 4: become good people? Because if that's how we're doing it, 340 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 4: I do have a problem with the methodology, even if 341 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 4: I believed in the religion. 342 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 1: I hear that from a lot of people that were 343 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 1: raised Catholic, and no I do. 344 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 3: I'm sorry, it's true. 345 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 2: It's so true about the Catholics. I'm sorry. I know 346 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 2: you're right. 347 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 3: I mean to you know, did I do an extracism 348 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 3: or surressing me? 349 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 2: Addruss me? 350 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:32,240 Speaker 4: We have a whole highlight reeler of spit takes. It's 351 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 4: the it's the highlight of any show. If the guest 352 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:38,240 Speaker 4: doesn't make the guest doesn't make me do a spit take, 353 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 4: we consider that it's a failure. But but you did, 354 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 4: so go on. But yes, Catholics, Yes, that's exactly who 355 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 4: you would hear that from. 356 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 3: It's an under emphasis on grace and grace. 357 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 4: What is grace? It's such a vague term. 358 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 1: So justice is getting what you deserve. Yeah, we believe 359 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 1: all humanity deserves damnation and judgment. 360 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 3: Tough, tough stuff. And it started in the garden stuff. 361 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 2: Do you believe in the garden you believe in the 362 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 2: Old Testaments. 363 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:09,639 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, No, I'm right to the I'm one of 364 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 3: those Christians. 365 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 4: Like six thousand years old thing. Not necessarily because in 366 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 4: religious I went to see. 367 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 3: The not necessary. 368 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:19,480 Speaker 4: We went to see the music. You know the museum 369 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 4: that they have it. 370 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, ken Ham's deal. 371 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:24,399 Speaker 2: Ken Ham, Yes, and we interviewed ken He was not appy. 372 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:26,360 Speaker 1: You got to you gott admit. The arc is pretty impressive. 373 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 1: You've seen the ark. They built a whole arc there. 374 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 1: We were there for a whole day. 375 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't can't remember if it was 376 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:31,960 Speaker 3: before after the. 377 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 2: Arc, No, no, it was. And Jesus impressive coming and 378 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:36,679 Speaker 2: Jesus riding the dinosaur. 379 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:38,719 Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know about that. 380 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 4: Jesus riding the dinosaur. Do I really need to elaborate, Babel, Okay, 381 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 4: go ahead with your thing. 382 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: Judgment is getting what you deserve. Mercy is getting less 383 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:49,399 Speaker 1: what you deserve. 384 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 2: Grace. 385 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:53,359 Speaker 4: Mercy is getting less than what you do. 386 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 1: Yes, so we believe Jesus gives us grace. So you 387 00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 1: get a prison sentence, you get judgment, you get mercy, 388 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 1: you get less of a price and sentence. Grace would 389 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,119 Speaker 1: be Jesus serving that prison sentence for you so you 390 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 1: could live life eternal. 391 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:07,960 Speaker 4: Well, how is he serving that? Oh? You mean that 392 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 4: in the big picture? 393 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 1: Well, because we believe him living a perfect life and 394 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:15,720 Speaker 1: then suffering the death that he did on the cross 395 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 1: was him atoning for our sins, the sins of humanity. 396 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:21,680 Speaker 4: Jesus. Yeah, which is a big. 397 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:24,359 Speaker 1: Claim, albeit and a very compelling one, which we also 398 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 1: believe one to be true because it redeems all of 399 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 1: humanity of falling of the glory of God. 400 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:32,119 Speaker 4: I got to say, it's it's really picking up the 401 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 4: check for the whole table, you know. I mean, you 402 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 4: gotta you gotta give it, dear boy, for like all 403 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:41,919 Speaker 4: of our solves, it's a very generous. 404 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:44,160 Speaker 1: But what it does very generous. It is at its 405 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:46,680 Speaker 1: core a statement of human equality. That we're all sinners, 406 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:48,600 Speaker 1: we're all screwed up, we all got problems, we all 407 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:52,880 Speaker 1: got vices, and like no one, no matter what you do, 408 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 1: we all fall short of God's standard and Jesus makes 409 00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 1: us whole. 410 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:02,879 Speaker 5: If your life Michael Berry shall podcast, please tell one friend, 411 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:06,919 Speaker 5: and if you're so inclined, write a nice review of 412 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:11,719 Speaker 5: our podcast. 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