Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet as a production
Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd
Speaker 1: and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet.
Speaker 1: This is a live show taped from the Digital Void
Speaker 1: Festival in Brooklyn, New York. Digital Void is an Internet
Speaker 1: literacy is collective exploring digital technology, media and culture. And
Speaker 1: there I got to speak to writer and cultural critic
Speaker 1: Ashley Reese about what brought her to the Internet and
Speaker 1: the role it plays in her life and work. So
Speaker 1: please enjoy. This is a live podcast recording of There
Speaker 1: Are No Girls on the Internet. And Bridget hod is
Speaker 1: the creator and host of I Heart Radio is critically
Speaker 1: claimed there are No Girls the Internet, and she's the
Speaker 1: director of Communication of Ultra Violet and conversation with Ashley Reese.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, thank you. Hello, Uh, thank you
Speaker 1: for that warm introduction. My name is Bridget Todd and
Speaker 1: I am the producer and host of I Heart Radio's
Speaker 1: tech and culture podcast There Are No Girls on the Internet. Uh.
Speaker 1: If you don't know what that podcast is, uh, we
Speaker 1: really are interested in telling the story of all the
Speaker 1: ways that people who have been traditionally and historically marginalized.
Speaker 1: So people of color, queer folks, trans folks, black folks,
Speaker 1: all those amazing people who make the Internet what it is.
Speaker 1: We're really interested in telling the story of the ways
Speaker 1: that we show up or do not show up online
Speaker 1: on the Internet and technology, and what that often really
Speaker 1: looks like is folks who are living at the intersection
Speaker 1: and the guests that I am so excited to bring
Speaker 1: on is no exception. Ashley Reese is a writer and
Speaker 1: cultural critic. She is as comfortable talking about politics and
Speaker 1: writing as she is tweeting about her hatred for mint chocolate.
Speaker 1: Welcome Ashley Reese. No, I love it. Rack up that telfeazy.
Speaker 1: It's like, why do I have all my belongings with me? Right? No?
Speaker 1: I love it? I love it? Um So I I mean,
Speaker 1: I would feel I would be even missed to not
Speaker 1: sort of start this conversation just acknowledging that we're in
Speaker 1: this moment that feels very heavy and very fraught for
Speaker 1: so many of us, And so I wanted to start
Speaker 1: by asking, actually, just generally as a person, how are you? Um?
Speaker 1: I feel like my response to that, whenever anyone's asked
Speaker 1: me that recently is yeah, pretty much like full disclosure
Speaker 1: and I don't want like, you know, I'm sorry. I
Speaker 1: mean it sucks. But like literally, in the last like
Speaker 1: a month or so, I found out my boyfriend's cancer
Speaker 1: came back. He's gonna be okay. I got laid off
Speaker 1: from my job at Netflix. Um, and then it was
Speaker 1: in the I've been in the hospital with my boyfe's
Speaker 1: he's really going to be okay. He's fine, he just
Speaker 1: had surgery. It's fine. But yeah, it's just it's stressful,
Speaker 1: like um so, and then you have like personal stuff
Speaker 1: on top of like any time I like check the news,
Speaker 1: it's like the worst thing I've ever seen in my life.
Speaker 1: So it's like, so that's why my responses. Yeah that
Speaker 1: I feel how many of you all out there can
Speaker 1: identify with that noise when someone's like how are you? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it seems like a lot of us solidarity. I gotta.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's a great place to start. You know,
Speaker 1: you are a prolific tweeter, prolific user social media. She's
Speaker 1: a great Twitter follower. I definitely recommend following. Um. What
Speaker 1: role would you say that, especially when things are really
Speaker 1: dark and hard, what role would you say that social
Speaker 1: media has and how you are showing up and coping,
Speaker 1: Like are you using social media to you know, find
Speaker 1: community or share resources or just like tweet memes and
Speaker 1: nihilistic jokes and gallows humor like or a combination like
Speaker 1: like what does it look like for you? So, I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm not someone who's gonna act like I'm above doom
Speaker 1: scrolling in these situations. I know that, Like there's always
Speaker 1: a tweet that's like you don't have to do this
Speaker 1: right now, you can like log off and take a break,
Speaker 1: And I'm like, so right, and I'm just like scrolling, scrolling,
Speaker 1: so true, and I'm just like retweet, angry tweet, retweet.
Speaker 1: So you know, it's this kind of thing where like
Speaker 1: I know that, um, social media can sometimes feel like
Speaker 1: the worst possible thing you can be on when something
Speaker 1: really fucked up happening. But um, I mean, I guess
Speaker 1: if I do get some comfort from it, it's from
Speaker 1: seeing that other people are, you know, just as angry
Speaker 1: as you are about something, or like, you know, even
Speaker 1: if you're doing something practical, like me screaming into the
Speaker 1: void about like gun controls and maybe doing anything practical,
Speaker 1: I'm not like yelling in Ted Cruz's ear, Not that
Speaker 1: that would do anything anyway, but um, you know, I
Speaker 1: guess if I have to do something practical, it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: you see a go fund me for like a family,
Speaker 1: that's like dealing with like the aftermath of like something
Speaker 1: devastating happened, like you know, the school shooting the other day.
Speaker 1: Me retweeting that is doing and like donating is doing
Speaker 1: something ten times more useful. It is a more useful
Speaker 1: use of my time and energy than you know, retweeting
Speaker 1: someone I agree with. And I'm like, yeah, that's the
Speaker 1: right take. I agree, Like you know, it's so I
Speaker 1: don't know, social media is kind of a double edged
Speaker 1: sword on that front and every other front. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: I mean, I completely agree, and I feel like that experience,
Speaker 1: I guess. I I when the when the news of
Speaker 1: the shooting first happened, I really caught myself going into
Speaker 1: this weird, dark rabbit hole of takes like who has
Speaker 1: a bad take? Who has a good take? And I
Speaker 1: sort of caught myself and I was like, I'm in
Speaker 1: a place where I'm not putting out anything that's going
Speaker 1: to be useful or thoughtful or good for anybody, and
Speaker 1: I should probably just log off right, Like does me
Speaker 1: yelling at Mattaglysia's first bad tweet, like really do mean yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't see we we we knew what it's like.
Speaker 1: It makes me feel good for a second of like dunk,
Speaker 1: but like he's not seeing it. My followers already agree
Speaker 1: with me. It's kind of like, okay, I'd had my
Speaker 1: little bit of like, you know, just I don't know,
Speaker 1: getting my anger out in this like very we're pretty well.
Speaker 1: But I mean again, I think that like it's really
Speaker 1: easy to kind of act like we need to be
Speaker 1: like above certain things, but like we're on the internet
Speaker 1: for good reasons and also deeply idiotic reasons, and sometimes
Speaker 1: I you know, maybe it's not like a helpful thing.
Speaker 1: It's not more helpful than like share a go fund
Speaker 1: me for like a family, But like, I don't think
Speaker 1: there's anything inherently wrong with kind of getting your like
Speaker 1: you know, that angry energy out if it's something a
Speaker 1: little mostly harmless, like I think Matt like dunking on
Speaker 1: Mattie Glaciers is mostly harmless. So you know, I don't
Speaker 1: know that's the I mean, it's social me again, it's
Speaker 1: like the good stuff and the bad stuff. So you
Speaker 1: alluded earlier about like the reasons why certain folks show
Speaker 1: up online? What like what like what brings you to
Speaker 1: social media? Like why are you someone who has a
Speaker 1: prolific social media presence? What brought you to the Internet
Speaker 1: in the first place? What is that of those experience
Speaker 1: has been like for you? I don't know. I think
Speaker 1: about when someone's like, what brought you to the Internet,
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't know, Like Horny Draco Harmony fan
Speaker 1: fiction in two thousand four, like maybe that's what brought
Speaker 1: me there, um live journal, which I still haven't I've
Speaker 1: never deleted my account. It's like I have a completely
Speaker 1: like you know, just a complete archive of every like
Speaker 1: crazy thing I thought about in two thousand four. Like,
Speaker 1: so that's kind of fun. So I mean, I feel
Speaker 1: like I had my natural progression of like blogging, and
Speaker 1: then you know, you create your Facebook or my Space whatever.
Speaker 1: Then you make your Tumbler, and then you spend all
Speaker 1: day on Tumbler, and then I don't know, I kind of,
Speaker 1: you know, as we saw in the last resation some
Speaker 1: that somehow I just kind of fell off Tumbler and
Speaker 1: went to Twitter and so, and then you have Instagrams,
Speaker 1: and so I don't know what briefing the Internet. I've
Speaker 1: just always had a big mouth, and I guess some
Speaker 1: people like to hear what I have to say um
Speaker 1: old things. So like that's when I think about, like
Speaker 1: what brought me to Internet. I think like fandom was
Speaker 1: a big part of it. I feel like if I
Speaker 1: wasn't involved in all these like fandoms and meeting people
Speaker 1: through like live journal and Tumbler when I was in
Speaker 1: high school and college, like, I think I'd be pretty
Speaker 1: normal on the Internet, just like I'm on Instagram and
Speaker 1: here's like my dog or something like that. But no,
Speaker 1: instead I'm like tweeting about like remember this like weird
Speaker 1: fan fiction when we were like in seventh grade or
Speaker 1: you know, stuff like that. So I'm on the Internet
Speaker 1: because of weird ship. I mean, that's that's what brought
Speaker 1: me to the Internet. And that's actually one of the
Speaker 1: reasons why. You know, I make a podcast about the Internet,
Speaker 1: and oftentimes it's about things like harassment and all the
Speaker 1: different ways that the Internet. Yeah, I will get into it,
Speaker 1: but yeah, I mean I what brings me hope about
Speaker 1: my experience online is weirdos. I really believe in the
Speaker 1: power of a collective of people weirdo us who care
Speaker 1: about the Internet, care about the health of the Internet,
Speaker 1: care that they can express their weird interests on the Internet.
Speaker 1: And I believe in the power of those weirdos to
Speaker 1: make the Internet a place where people want to spend
Speaker 1: their time. I mean, I feel like the Internet used
Speaker 1: to feel more like I mean, I don't know. Maybe
Speaker 1: this is again the perspective of someone who was like
Speaker 1: on live journal a bunch all through high school and
Speaker 1: then was on Tumbler all through college and stuff like that,
Speaker 1: But I feel like in a lot of ways, the
Speaker 1: Internet has gone bigger but also like smaller, Like I
Speaker 1: feel like it's so much hard to find to like
Speaker 1: not just find these like little enclaves of being like
Speaker 1: a weirdo, but also to feel like safe in them.
Speaker 1: Like this that feels very like you know, gooey, but
Speaker 1: I mean, like sincerely, like I mean, I feel like
Speaker 1: you can, like I mean, in the live general days,
Speaker 1: you can have your little community where you're like a
Speaker 1: literal like the live journal community where like you're and
Speaker 1: it can be like a lot of community, even like
Speaker 1: you don't have like random people who just want to
Speaker 1: harass you kind of like come in there, um. On Tumbler.
Speaker 1: I do feel like it was a little more insulated
Speaker 1: to Yeah, like some have something from a fandom I
Speaker 1: have no interest in would come across my page and
Speaker 1: I'd be like, what's going on over there? But like
Speaker 1: it wasn't a thing where I really felt involved in
Speaker 1: or had to get involved in. Now I can't like
Speaker 1: tweet anything about like anything without someone being like, well, like,
Speaker 1: I feel like, I, yeah, I really fucking hate strawberries,
Speaker 1: and someone's like, well, I only can only subsist on strawberries,
Speaker 1: So this is like really really wrong of you to say.
Speaker 1: I mean, I just feel like it's it's harder in
Speaker 1: some ways to have these spaces that don't feel like
Speaker 1: you're always in danger of the wrong people getting ahold
Speaker 1: of it. Um. But yeah, I don't really know, Like
Speaker 1: I don't know. I feel like I'm like thirty one now,
Speaker 1: so I've been on the internet for like half my
Speaker 1: life and shout out to one year old it's fad
Speaker 1: to like being in your thirties and still being really
Speaker 1: online and still like reading fan fiction. Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1: Um no, like literally, if I like open my like
Speaker 1: tabs on my phone and be like Ao three, Ao three.
Speaker 1: I so tempted to ask you to do that, but
Speaker 1: I mean put you on the spot. Let you want to.
Speaker 1: I know, is that like whenever I'm in a spot
Speaker 1: where like I'm feeling deeply, like in a dark place
Speaker 1: or something, it's very nice to have that comfort of like,
Speaker 1: let's see what like bad fan fiction I can read
Speaker 1: right now just to like, you know, past the time.
Speaker 1: I love it. Let's say a quick break at our back.
Speaker 1: You know, we talked a little bit about this um
Speaker 1: before we got started, but I think the experience of
Speaker 1: being a particularly a black woman who has a pretty
Speaker 1: big platform and a pretty big digital footprint online, I
Speaker 1: don't know how the fun that happened. Yeah you, I mean,
Speaker 1: you're hilarious and really trying to be humble. I'm like,
Speaker 1: where are you people coming from? M But you know,
Speaker 1: can you talk a bit about what that ex here? Yet?
Speaker 1: It has been like for you? Like I sometimes feel
Speaker 1: like it can be a tight rope and I am
Speaker 1: very um mindful of how I show up online because
Speaker 1: of it. I'm curious how it has impacted the way
Speaker 1: that you show up on online spaces. So you know,
Speaker 1: I can't act like this has all been bad to
Speaker 1: have like an audience. I mean when I was I
Speaker 1: had to go fund me to like raise money to
Speaker 1: like swear our medical bills because when I got laid off,
Speaker 1: that meant that, like my my boyfriend is insured through me,
Speaker 1: and we're in America, so that means that, like your
Speaker 1: insurance is really like you know in limbo. So you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: having a big platform allowed me to be able to
Speaker 1: actually get a good amount of money to be able
Speaker 1: to not worry about medical bills, like I'm not going
Speaker 1: to act like I'm That's how that's unimportant. But also
Speaker 1: it gets to the point where, like you know, when
Speaker 1: I really am on, I really was online because of
Speaker 1: online fandoms like that really is what kept me on
Speaker 1: these little quarters on the internet. And then you know,
Speaker 1: I did like, you know writing as my career, I
Speaker 1: did a lot of political writing. I was. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's hard to not be political for me just in
Speaker 1: my like existence as a person. And I feel like,
Speaker 1: I don't know something around the time election, I just
Speaker 1: got like a slew of people, which is like the
Speaker 1: wrong time to get a lot of attention. Um and
Speaker 1: I don't know, people just kept coming because I think
Speaker 1: that when you see this, someone has a big like
Speaker 1: a lot of like a large Twitter following or something,
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, this is a person worth following to follow.
Speaker 1: I like, I don't know if I'm the right person
Speaker 1: for you, guys. I seem to be pissing you off
Speaker 1: every single day. Um, so you know it's it's good
Speaker 1: and bad. But in a lot of ways, like I've
Speaker 1: had to be more mindful of like what I post.
Speaker 1: Like I try not to write anything too personal on
Speaker 1: like Twitter, for example, anymore, because someone will always find
Speaker 1: some reason like dunk on you or like they'll have
Speaker 1: screenshots and then like five months after you posted something
Speaker 1: to like but what about when you said this? So
Speaker 1: I'm like, why is this in your phone? Like you know,
Speaker 1: just to like pull up at the right moment um
Speaker 1: some weird out of context things. So you know, I've
Speaker 1: had to be a little more sterile on that front.
Speaker 1: I'll still post, like a still post some weird ship
Speaker 1: Like I mean, it gets to the point where it's
Speaker 1: like I realized that, Like I don't know, Amy Klobaschar
Speaker 1: follows me, but I'm like, am I really going to
Speaker 1: write about like I don't know, like Dobby Hagrid fan
Speaker 1: fiction right now like a smigle. Like I'm like, I'm like,
Speaker 1: you know what she her people decided to follow me,
Speaker 1: this is what they're gonna get, so you know, and
Speaker 1: if for those of you who know, you know, if
Speaker 1: you know, you know, Um, I'm like, yeah, I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna do this. So it's it's it's strange, but you
Speaker 1: have to I just have to be really smart about
Speaker 1: it so that people don't like find my number and
Speaker 1: call me and yell at me, which has happened before. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's happened to you, like from things that you've written
Speaker 1: on jez Bell about certain elected officials that that elected
Speaker 1: officials fans found your you and your partner's number and
Speaker 1: called you in the middle of the night to harrass you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was. It was weird. Um. So it's like things
Speaker 1: like that where you just don't really feel totally safe.
Speaker 1: But um, yeah, I don't know. Now, everything I'm saying
Speaker 1: is like, oh, is it worth happing all these people
Speaker 1: following on the internet? And maybe not? But I can't
Speaker 1: I mean, I can't help. But I'm not gonna not
Speaker 1: have a big mouth anymore. I'm just gonna be a
Speaker 1: little bit more selective about what I'm a big mouth about. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I I love you know, shout out to women with
Speaker 1: big mouths who do not shut the funk up, I am.
Speaker 1: I may we raise them, maybe be them, Um, you know,
Speaker 1: speaking of that, Like, there's one topic. So I also
Speaker 1: have a big mouth, and I use my platform to
Speaker 1: talk about whatever I want. But there has been one
Speaker 1: topic recently that I have really not spoken up about
Speaker 1: because I have seen the way that any person who
Speaker 1: speaks up about it sort of gets silenced and harassed.
Speaker 1: And that is the Johnny Depp amber her trial, right, So, like,
Speaker 1: I tweeted one thing and then I quickly deleted it,
Speaker 1: and I have not tweeted anything since. But you're actually
Speaker 1: someone who really is vocal about it and like uses
Speaker 1: your platform to have conversations about it. And I guess
Speaker 1: I'm curious. You know, I love the Internet and I'm
Speaker 1: hopeful about the Internet. But when I think about the
Speaker 1: state of the Internet, specifically for survivors, I'm so concerned
Speaker 1: that we're building an Internet ecosystem where it's not okay
Speaker 1: for survivors to speak up. And I'm wondering, like, what
Speaker 1: do you think about that? I think my main I
Speaker 1: think my omissional thought is like I feel like that
Speaker 1: Internet has been here for a long time. I feel
Speaker 1: like that there's been like a movement of pushback against
Speaker 1: that because I feel like that's the default. The default
Speaker 1: is to silence survivors and to tell people to shut
Speaker 1: up and to you know, do that. So I feel
Speaker 1: like there's been a movement to push against that, and
Speaker 1: I guess recently it's kind of felt like it's like
Speaker 1: faltered a little bit, you know, um just add that's
Speaker 1: the list of things to feel like a little pessimisticly.
Speaker 1: But I mean, I'm ultimately an optimist, but like you
Speaker 1: see some of these like, you know, I'm not a
Speaker 1: conspiracy theory really person, but like I can't even like
Speaker 1: look up like a how to video on YouTube without
Speaker 1: being like suggested like five times Johnny Depp like to
Speaker 1: really like you know, owned Amberger. You know, I'm just
Speaker 1: like I don't look up anything about this. I maybe,
Speaker 1: like right the occasional like tweet about it, but like
Speaker 1: when it's like just being infected into like your feeds
Speaker 1: and everything, it's it's kind of I don't know, it's
Speaker 1: it's very aggressive and kind of scary. Um. I don't know.
Speaker 1: It just seems like there's so much regression on so
Speaker 1: many different levels that like, I think this is just
Speaker 1: one small part of it. Um. But yeah, it's it's
Speaker 1: hard to be an optimist on the Internet right now.
Speaker 1: I feel like you're either seeing something awful or seeing
Speaker 1: awful things happen other people and all of stuff. But
Speaker 1: that's all that's I think that's the reason why I
Speaker 1: kind of do gravitate towards these like little circles I
Speaker 1: have that make me feel like again, like safe seems
Speaker 1: like such. It feels like such a gooey word to me.
Speaker 1: But yeah, like when I see something like when I
Speaker 1: sometimes needs to stop doom scrolling and be like, let
Speaker 1: me just like talk about something really goofy, Like let
Speaker 1: me like reminiscent about someone about like dash con with
Speaker 1: someone you know who gets it or something like that.
Speaker 1: Like it feels nice to kind of have these we're
Speaker 1: facing all this kind of like Internet history to kind
Speaker 1: of fall back on, to think of, like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: there were times when the Internet was just really funny
Speaker 1: and really fun and like goofy, and there are still
Speaker 1: those times. But I don't know, do you have a
Speaker 1: favorite goofy, funny Internet moment that sticks out to you.
Speaker 1: Are this one that you that is memorable to you? God,
Speaker 1: that's a really good question. Again, this is we're going
Speaker 1: We're talking about like fifteen years of like everything that's
Speaker 1: happened on the Internet. I'm like going through my head,
Speaker 1: like you know, um, okay, Well, dash Con was obviously iconic.
Speaker 1: Anyone who was on Tumbler during dash Con knows that
Speaker 1: was maybe like the most hilarious three days on the internet. Um,
Speaker 1: kind of sad, but like really funny. Um yeah, you know.
Speaker 1: Someone asked me this recently, like what was like one
Speaker 1: of the funniest days on the Internet, And I'm like,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Is it inappropriate for me to say,
Speaker 1: like when Trump got COVID, I remember that. I'm sorry
Speaker 1: not to I'm not making light of that, but just
Speaker 1: like it was that was a wild night. We can't
Speaker 1: deny that it was a wild night, right, Like, whether
Speaker 1: that's appropriate for it was a wild night. I remember
Speaker 1: I was still working at just Ave all the time,
Speaker 1: and I was the only one who was like up
Speaker 1: that late. My editors were all asleep, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: I think I need to post this. I think I
Speaker 1: need to post this. What do I do? I don't
Speaker 1: know how to do, like and like I don't know.
Speaker 1: My one coworker who was like definitely like Stone in
Speaker 1: California is like, I don't know, try it, and I'm
Speaker 1: just like I'm just gonna post it. And then it
Speaker 1: was I don't know. For some reason, that was like
Speaker 1: a very dramatic moment for me where I'm like I
Speaker 1: got to post the news. Um, but yeah, maybe I
Speaker 1: shouldn't say it was a funny day. It was an
Speaker 1: intense day. It was an intense night on the internet.
Speaker 1: Um yeah, god, if anyone I mean and also any
Speaker 1: just like weird fandom saying that's happened, Like I don't know,
Speaker 1: I really look back on like some like I feel
Speaker 1: like I don't even have like you've written moments on
Speaker 1: the internet. I just have like really weird things I
Speaker 1: specifically remember, and maybe five other people I know also remember,
Speaker 1: you know, like a weird like remember when like the
Speaker 1: Supernatural fans were doing were like really into this one
Speaker 1: thing and like I wasn't even into the show, but
Speaker 1: I knew about it, Like you know, I don't know,
Speaker 1: but yeah, why do you think that fandom has been
Speaker 1: such a grounding experience about how you show up online,
Speaker 1: like what is it about fandom and you know, nerding
Speaker 1: out about niche things. That is really solidified your online experience,
Speaker 1: I think because that's where I met so many friends
Speaker 1: like I have. Probably there are friends I met on
Speaker 1: live journal and I was sixteen that I'm still friends
Speaker 1: with to this day. We like hang out around like
Speaker 1: the city and stuff. And I think that if it
Speaker 1: wasn't for making friends through these mediums like make you
Speaker 1: know I've I probably wouldn't care as much. I woulduld
Speaker 1: be really easy to kind of like have like a
Speaker 1: fleeting interest in something and just kind of like going
Speaker 1: off to something else. But like having friendships that you've
Speaker 1: developed over this really weird, niche internet like phenomenon is
Speaker 1: like very special, I feel like, and not every most
Speaker 1: people don't have that experience, and I think that's what
Speaker 1: has kept me on the internet. It wasn't like political commentary,
Speaker 1: it wasn't like making people mad on Twitter. It was
Speaker 1: like weird Fanish stuff that you know, put me where
Speaker 1: I am now, even if you know that's that's been
Speaker 1: my whole thing. More. After a quick break, let's get
Speaker 1: right back into it. Yeah, And I wanted to talk
Speaker 1: briefly about sort of this I guess. I guess I
Speaker 1: feel like we're in this very weird moment when it
Speaker 1: comes to the Internet, particularly around people who are traditionally marginalized.
Speaker 1: I know that you were among the people who were
Speaker 1: laid off at Netflix. And Netflix had hired a lot
Speaker 1: of marginalized folks like we're folks, black women, um, and
Speaker 1: then laid a lot of them off. And I remember
Speaker 1: when that happened. The commentary that I saw that was
Speaker 1: sort of like, hey, hey, that's what you get. It
Speaker 1: was sort of either a was like, well, what did
Speaker 1: you expect selling out, you know, for a big, big
Speaker 1: platform like Netflix, or be like oh Netflix, you know,
Speaker 1: go woke, go broke. This is what they get for
Speaker 1: hiring all these people to champion marginal you know, traditionally
Speaker 1: marginalized voices. I guess my question is like, why do
Speaker 1: you think that platforms like Netflix and the Internet seems
Speaker 1: to be this new kind of ideological battleground where people
Speaker 1: are really hashing out these partisan ideological fights on these spaces,
Speaker 1: and it's it seems to be this sort of like
Speaker 1: push pull for power, like who has it, who doesn't
Speaker 1: have it? Um, who can amass it? I mean, what
Speaker 1: I can speak to just the way I mean, I
Speaker 1: can't speak anything specifically about my situation, but like I
Speaker 1: guess I'm just increasingly fascinated by the kind of way
Speaker 1: that Like again, I think that this just kind of
Speaker 1: goes back to how the Internet is so much bigger
Speaker 1: but feel so much smaller now, Like you just really
Speaker 1: don't have the same kind of privacy and enclaves that
Speaker 1: you used to. Anyone who's been online since like the
Speaker 1: two thousand's probably understands what I mean, where you could
Speaker 1: really kind of have your own individual spaces talk about
Speaker 1: these and this wouldn't be something that they're talking about
Speaker 1: on cable news or that like you know, or a
Speaker 1: podcast or anything else. It wouldn't be like in the
Speaker 1: main in the main stream. So I think it's just
Speaker 1: the they're probably other people can talk about this way
Speaker 1: better than I can, or make more eloquently. But like
Speaker 1: the kind of main streaming of the Internet and main
Speaker 1: streaming of Internet spaces I think has been probably one
Speaker 1: of the biggest things that we're seeing in the last
Speaker 1: like I don't know, decade or so, Like how these
Speaker 1: kind of things that used to be things that you
Speaker 1: just kind of talk about, you can only really talk
Speaker 1: about with a few people, end up becoming like these
Speaker 1: huge cultural phenomenons. Um, sure good things have come from it,
Speaker 1: but like, I don't know, there's something a little there's
Speaker 1: something lost, There's something that's been lost. I think in
Speaker 1: having these things kind of proliferate the mainstream, because yeah,
Speaker 1: there are ways in which they can be used for good.
Speaker 1: We're talking about like marginalized people. I remember just be
Speaker 1: on tumbler, marginalized people talking about their experiences, talking about
Speaker 1: like just or just griping about something, talking about, oh
Speaker 1: why can't I find things that are in my size,
Speaker 1: like things like that, Like those things. Yeah, they became mainstream,
Speaker 1: and in some ways it's been good. In some ways
Speaker 1: it's just been like, you know, a magnet for harassment
Speaker 1: and magnet for people dismissing you, magnet for like, you know,
Speaker 1: everything else. So it's it really feels cliche to be
Speaker 1: like the inter that's a double edged sword, but like
Speaker 1: what else? How else can you describe it? It's been
Speaker 1: the place where I've found the most important people in
Speaker 1: my life and have also experienced one of the some
Speaker 1: of the most like traumatic, harassing experiences of my life.
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's something that's been like com modified.
Speaker 1: It's something that's been like you know, bought and sold
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. It's just it's weird. It's a
Speaker 1: weird place. I guess. Yeah, I feel the exact same way.
Speaker 1: And it makes me kind of sad because why, you know,
Speaker 1: I feel like I grew up on the internet kind
Speaker 1: of like you've moved to my life on the internet.
Speaker 1: In a lot of ways, it's my hometown. And you know,
Speaker 1: it makes me sad when I think about how I
Speaker 1: used to show up so hopeful and so excited, and
Speaker 1: you know, I was really the day that my parents
Speaker 1: brought me a computer, like this bossy, gray nightmare of
Speaker 1: a thing that took up our whole fucking desk, and
Speaker 1: you know, the day, the day that they brought that home,
Speaker 1: it was like they brought me a pair of wings,
Speaker 1: and it was just discovery. That's the only thing that
Speaker 1: I remember being the Internet being about. And now when
Speaker 1: I show up there, I'm so guarded, I'm so careful.
Speaker 1: I'm I just don't want to be on the end
Speaker 1: of what you've just described harassment pylons, and it's so
Speaker 1: much really bad faith, you know, attacks and stuff like.
Speaker 1: I mean, I I think we're all kind of guilty
Speaker 1: of doing this. We're all kind of guilty of like
Speaker 1: the easy dunk. We're all kind of guilty of the
Speaker 1: like work at this like dumb fucking tweet or like
Speaker 1: something like that, or like something we think is like
Speaker 1: we're none of us are innocent in that regard. I've
Speaker 1: definitely complicit. I've been a huge bitch on the internet
Speaker 1: before um, and so you know, I don't think we're
Speaker 1: above it. I don't think that all the harassment and
Speaker 1: everything is like new. I think this has been happening
Speaker 1: for a long time now, especially for the last decade.
Speaker 1: But I do think just for me personally, it's kind
Speaker 1: of weird that it's gone to a point where like
Speaker 1: I regularly have to like lock my account in case
Speaker 1: like the wrong person gets it, or in case like
Speaker 1: I don't know, some right wing weirdo gets it, and
Speaker 1: then it just goes into a complete other part of
Speaker 1: the Internet that I don't know about. And yeah, you
Speaker 1: do have I do have to be more guard I
Speaker 1: can't be quite as like open about my personal life
Speaker 1: because people are weird and you know, I want to
Speaker 1: guard something, so yeah, I'll give them like the hot takes.
Speaker 1: And I don't know, reminiscing about old smut fan fiction
Speaker 1: from like I keep talking about smutty fan fiction, but
Speaker 1: really it's a really big part of my life on
Speaker 1: the internet. Um, but like the other stuff, I really
Speaker 1: have to keep closer to, you know, closer the best. Yeah,
Speaker 1: do you? I mean, I guess that's that's really brings
Speaker 1: me to one of my last questions, like, are you
Speaker 1: when you think about the state of the internet, especially
Speaker 1: for people who are traditionally marginalized, are you hopeful Are
Speaker 1: you hopeful that it will be a place where folks
Speaker 1: can find their their find community and find their shared interests,
Speaker 1: whether it's politics or activism or you know, smut. Are
Speaker 1: you hopeful of the internet being like a place for
Speaker 1: self discovery, particularly for people who are traditionally marginalized. I
Speaker 1: think like it goes back to that kind of response,
Speaker 1: or I mean, I mean, marginalized people are always going
Speaker 1: to find communities online, and I think that that's like
Speaker 1: a really beautiful thing. I think that that's like important.
Speaker 1: I don't think that that should I think I don't
Speaker 1: think that the bad stuff online has diminished. That people
Speaker 1: are always going to find whether it's like I don't
Speaker 1: know whether it's people who are marginalized, whether there's people
Speaker 1: who are just like really into some like K pop group.
Speaker 1: Everyone will go all the stands were fund will find you,
Speaker 1: They will find their people. But I just think that
Speaker 1: gone other days where you can kind of feel like
Speaker 1: you're insulated, and there was a comfort in being insulated,
Speaker 1: and now you can't even be like a weirdo online
Speaker 1: if like the wrong person finds it and it's just like,
Speaker 1: look of these guys over here, and it's like, I'm
Speaker 1: just overhear hanging out, Like, let me be weird in
Speaker 1: this quarter. I'm not bothering you. So that's gotten harder
Speaker 1: with you know, the Internet just isn't as private as
Speaker 1: it used to be. Yeah, I want to interviewed this
Speaker 1: amazing Internet historian Claire Evans, and she said that it's
Speaker 1: interesting that the internet used to be where you went
Speaker 1: to be anonymous, and the real world was where you
Speaker 1: went to be like who like who you are, and
Speaker 1: now it's completely flipped. The Internet is where you are
Speaker 1: where you go to be like really manacle to your
Speaker 1: government name and the real world is where you go
Speaker 1: to experience anonymity. And it's so interesting that we're in
Speaker 1: this space where it's been completely flipped. Like back in
Speaker 1: the day when I was first exploring the Internet, it
Speaker 1: felt like discovery and and emity and like, you know,
Speaker 1: this is gonna sound very cheesy, but like the old
Speaker 1: days of like the hacker online and like black leather
Speaker 1: fingerless gloves and blogging on exactly right, Like that was
Speaker 1: the Internet experience that I feel like I was signing
Speaker 1: up for when I was younger, and these days that
Speaker 1: that is a thing, that is a fiction, that it
Speaker 1: is no longer what we have. And I don't know,
Speaker 1: I don't know what that says about the state of
Speaker 1: the Internet today and like how we all show up
Speaker 1: on it. But I I'm really hopeful to carve out
Speaker 1: those spaces that feel like discovery and joy and connection
Speaker 1: and anonymity if that's what you want. And I'm hopeful
Speaker 1: that we can really preserve that that feeling for the
Speaker 1: next generation online, I hope. So I guess we need
Speaker 1: to find like a Devian art or whatever for like
Speaker 1: the zoomers or something again, if you know, you know,
Speaker 1: but I know, but yeah, no, I think, like, you know,
Speaker 1: the Internet, I would like it to be in a
Speaker 1: place where, yeah, we're gonna be able to have to
Speaker 1: share among different spaces, but I would hope that it's
Speaker 1: also couldn't be more of a space for people can
Speaker 1: enjoy an heart, can partake in harmless fun without feeling
Speaker 1: like they're gonna be like violated. You know, we deserve that,
Speaker 1: we deserve to have Internet spaces where we can partake
Speaker 1: in whatever nerdy, harmless fun we want without agreeing like
Speaker 1: we're going to get violated exactly. Actually, where can folks
Speaker 1: keep up with all the amazing stuff that you're up to? Okay,
Speaker 1: you can follow me at offbeat Orbit on Twitter, Instagram,
Speaker 1: stuff like that. I don't. I don't use tumbler anymore,
Speaker 1: but now I'm like, maybe I need to go back.
Speaker 1: It might be time for a Tumbler revival. Like I
Speaker 1: kind of peeked around for a little bit, like a
Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago. I'm like, okay, the girls are
Speaker 1: still on here, like really like causing havoc, Like let's
Speaker 1: let's tap in, so you know, but also if you
Speaker 1: type in Ashley Rees anywhere I should pop up talk
Speaker 1: about lack of anonymity like I'm at that point. Now
Speaker 1: give it up for Ashley Rees. Thank you well, Thank
Speaker 1: you all for listening, and thank you Ashley for being here.
Speaker 1: If you want to hear more conversations about the experience
Speaker 1: of being a traditionally an storically marginalized person online, you
Speaker 1: can subscribe to my podcast on iHeart Radio what's called
Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet and we would
Speaker 1: love to have you there. My name is Bridget Todd.
Speaker 1: This has been amazing. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1: Good Bye, and if you want to talk about weird
Speaker 1: fan fiction, you can also find me. I'm in the jumpsuit. Yes.
Speaker 1: If you're looking for ways to support the show, check
Speaker 1: out our merk store at tangodi dot com. Slash store.
Speaker 1: Got a story about an interesting thing in tech? I
Speaker 1: just want to say hi. You can reach us at
Speaker 1: Hello at tangodi dot com. You can also find transcripts
Speaker 1: for today's episode at tangodi dot com. There Are No
Speaker 1: Girls on the Internet was created by me Bridget Todd.
Speaker 1: It's a production of iHeart Radio and Unboss Creative, edited
Speaker 1: by Joey Pat Jonathan Strictland as our executive producer. Terry
Speaker 1: Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amado is
Speaker 1: our contributing producer. I'm your host, bridget Todd. If you
Speaker 1: want to help us grow, rate and review us on
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Speaker 1: out the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you
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