1 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet as a production 2 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:13,200 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd 3 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 1: and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet. 4 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:19,639 Speaker 1: This is a live show taped from the Digital Void 5 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:22,960 Speaker 1: Festival in Brooklyn, New York. Digital Void is an Internet 6 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 1: literacy is collective exploring digital technology, media and culture. And 7 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 1: there I got to speak to writer and cultural critic 8 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 1: Ashley Reese about what brought her to the Internet and 9 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 1: the role it plays in her life and work. So 10 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:43,920 Speaker 1: please enjoy. This is a live podcast recording of There 11 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:47,600 Speaker 1: Are No Girls on the Internet. And Bridget hod is 12 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: the creator and host of I Heart Radio is critically 13 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: claimed there are No Girls the Internet, and she's the 14 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: director of Communication of Ultra Violet and conversation with Ashley Reese. 15 00:00:57,080 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, thank you. Hello, Uh, thank you 16 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: for that warm introduction. My name is Bridget Todd and 17 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 1: I am the producer and host of I Heart Radio's 18 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:09,960 Speaker 1: tech and culture podcast There Are No Girls on the Internet. Uh. 19 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 1: If you don't know what that podcast is, uh, we 20 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 1: really are interested in telling the story of all the 21 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,959 Speaker 1: ways that people who have been traditionally and historically marginalized. 22 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 1: So people of color, queer folks, trans folks, black folks, 23 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 1: all those amazing people who make the Internet what it is. 24 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:26,800 Speaker 1: We're really interested in telling the story of the ways 25 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:29,759 Speaker 1: that we show up or do not show up online 26 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:33,039 Speaker 1: on the Internet and technology, and what that often really 27 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 1: looks like is folks who are living at the intersection 28 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 1: and the guests that I am so excited to bring 29 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: on is no exception. Ashley Reese is a writer and 30 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:44,679 Speaker 1: cultural critic. She is as comfortable talking about politics and 31 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 1: writing as she is tweeting about her hatred for mint chocolate. 32 00:01:48,760 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: Welcome Ashley Reese. No, I love it. Rack up that telfeazy. 33 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: It's like, why do I have all my belongings with me? Right? No? 34 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:08,919 Speaker 1: I love it? I love it? Um So I I mean, 35 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 1: I would feel I would be even missed to not 36 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:13,680 Speaker 1: sort of start this conversation just acknowledging that we're in 37 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:17,920 Speaker 1: this moment that feels very heavy and very fraught for 38 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: so many of us, And so I wanted to start 39 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 1: by asking, actually, just generally as a person, how are you? Um? 40 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 1: I feel like my response to that, whenever anyone's asked 41 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:36,079 Speaker 1: me that recently is yeah, pretty much like full disclosure 42 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:38,360 Speaker 1: and I don't want like, you know, I'm sorry. I 43 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:40,960 Speaker 1: mean it sucks. But like literally, in the last like 44 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 1: a month or so, I found out my boyfriend's cancer 45 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:49,680 Speaker 1: came back. He's gonna be okay. I got laid off 46 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 1: from my job at Netflix. Um, and then it was 47 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:56,800 Speaker 1: in the I've been in the hospital with my boyfe's 48 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 1: he's really going to be okay. He's fine, he just 49 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 1: had surgery. It's fine. But yeah, it's just it's stressful, 50 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 1: like um so, and then you have like personal stuff 51 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: on top of like any time I like check the news, 52 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:11,919 Speaker 1: it's like the worst thing I've ever seen in my life. 53 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: So it's like, so that's why my responses. Yeah that 54 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 1: I feel how many of you all out there can 55 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 1: identify with that noise when someone's like how are you? Yeah, 56 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 1: it seems like a lot of us solidarity. I gotta. 57 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:29,960 Speaker 1: I mean, that's a great place to start. You know, 58 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 1: you are a prolific tweeter, prolific user social media. She's 59 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: a great Twitter follower. I definitely recommend following. Um. What 60 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 1: role would you say that, especially when things are really 61 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: dark and hard, what role would you say that social 62 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 1: media has and how you are showing up and coping, 63 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 1: Like are you using social media to you know, find 64 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 1: community or share resources or just like tweet memes and 65 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 1: nihilistic jokes and gallows humor like or a combination like 66 00:03:57,320 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: like what does it look like for you? So, I mean, 67 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 1: I'm not someone who's gonna act like I'm above doom 68 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 1: scrolling in these situations. I know that, Like there's always 69 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 1: a tweet that's like you don't have to do this 70 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: right now, you can like log off and take a break, 71 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 1: And I'm like, so right, and I'm just like scrolling, scrolling, 72 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:17,359 Speaker 1: so true, and I'm just like retweet, angry tweet, retweet. 73 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:19,479 Speaker 1: So you know, it's this kind of thing where like 74 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 1: I know that, um, social media can sometimes feel like 75 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 1: the worst possible thing you can be on when something 76 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:31,359 Speaker 1: really fucked up happening. But um, I mean, I guess 77 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 1: if I do get some comfort from it, it's from 78 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: seeing that other people are, you know, just as angry 79 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 1: as you are about something, or like, you know, even 80 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 1: if you're doing something practical, like me screaming into the 81 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: void about like gun controls and maybe doing anything practical, 82 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:49,040 Speaker 1: I'm not like yelling in Ted Cruz's ear, Not that 83 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:52,839 Speaker 1: that would do anything anyway, but um, you know, I 84 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 1: guess if I have to do something practical, it's like, oh, 85 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 1: you see a go fund me for like a family, 86 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 1: that's like dealing with like the aftermath of like something 87 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 1: devastating happened, like you know, the school shooting the other day. 88 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:07,280 Speaker 1: Me retweeting that is doing and like donating is doing 89 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 1: something ten times more useful. It is a more useful 90 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 1: use of my time and energy than you know, retweeting 91 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 1: someone I agree with. And I'm like, yeah, that's the 92 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 1: right take. I agree, Like you know, it's so I 93 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 1: don't know, social media is kind of a double edged 94 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:26,719 Speaker 1: sword on that front and every other front. Yeah, that's 95 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:30,920 Speaker 1: I mean, I completely agree, and I feel like that experience, 96 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:33,160 Speaker 1: I guess. I I when the when the news of 97 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:36,360 Speaker 1: the shooting first happened, I really caught myself going into 98 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 1: this weird, dark rabbit hole of takes like who has 99 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:43,360 Speaker 1: a bad take? Who has a good take? And I 100 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 1: sort of caught myself and I was like, I'm in 101 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 1: a place where I'm not putting out anything that's going 102 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 1: to be useful or thoughtful or good for anybody, and 103 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 1: I should probably just log off right, Like does me 104 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:58,280 Speaker 1: yelling at Mattaglysia's first bad tweet, like really do mean yeah, 105 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:00,920 Speaker 1: I don't see we we we knew what it's like. 106 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 1: It makes me feel good for a second of like dunk, 107 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:06,919 Speaker 1: but like he's not seeing it. My followers already agree 108 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 1: with me. It's kind of like, okay, I'd had my 109 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 1: little bit of like, you know, just I don't know, 110 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: getting my anger out in this like very we're pretty well. 111 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:17,840 Speaker 1: But I mean again, I think that like it's really 112 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:19,600 Speaker 1: easy to kind of act like we need to be 113 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: like above certain things, but like we're on the internet 114 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:27,479 Speaker 1: for good reasons and also deeply idiotic reasons, and sometimes 115 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:29,600 Speaker 1: I you know, maybe it's not like a helpful thing. 116 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 1: It's not more helpful than like share a go fund 117 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:34,480 Speaker 1: me for like a family, But like, I don't think 118 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 1: there's anything inherently wrong with kind of getting your like 119 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:41,040 Speaker 1: you know, that angry energy out if it's something a 120 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 1: little mostly harmless, like I think Matt like dunking on 121 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:50,159 Speaker 1: Mattie Glaciers is mostly harmless. So you know, I don't 122 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 1: know that's the I mean, it's social me again, it's 123 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 1: like the good stuff and the bad stuff. So you 124 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 1: alluded earlier about like the reasons why certain folks show 125 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 1: up online? What like what like what brings you to 126 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:05,280 Speaker 1: social media? Like why are you someone who has a 127 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 1: prolific social media presence? What brought you to the Internet 128 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 1: in the first place? What is that of those experience 129 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 1: has been like for you? I don't know. I think 130 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: about when someone's like, what brought you to the Internet, 131 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't know, Like Horny Draco Harmony fan 132 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 1: fiction in two thousand four, like maybe that's what brought 133 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 1: me there, um live journal, which I still haven't I've 134 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 1: never deleted my account. It's like I have a completely 135 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 1: like you know, just a complete archive of every like 136 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 1: crazy thing I thought about in two thousand four. Like, 137 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 1: so that's kind of fun. So I mean, I feel 138 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 1: like I had my natural progression of like blogging, and 139 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 1: then you know, you create your Facebook or my Space whatever. 140 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 1: Then you make your Tumbler, and then you spend all 141 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 1: day on Tumbler, and then I don't know, I kind of, 142 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: you know, as we saw in the last resation some 143 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 1: that somehow I just kind of fell off Tumbler and 144 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 1: went to Twitter and so, and then you have Instagrams, 145 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 1: and so I don't know what briefing the Internet. I've 146 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 1: just always had a big mouth, and I guess some 147 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 1: people like to hear what I have to say um 148 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 1: old things. So like that's when I think about, like 149 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 1: what brought me to Internet. I think like fandom was 150 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 1: a big part of it. I feel like if I 151 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:14,239 Speaker 1: wasn't involved in all these like fandoms and meeting people 152 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 1: through like live journal and Tumbler when I was in 153 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 1: high school and college, like, I think I'd be pretty 154 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 1: normal on the Internet, just like I'm on Instagram and 155 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: here's like my dog or something like that. But no, 156 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 1: instead I'm like tweeting about like remember this like weird 157 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 1: fan fiction when we were like in seventh grade or 158 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 1: you know, stuff like that. So I'm on the Internet 159 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: because of weird ship. I mean, that's that's what brought 160 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:40,200 Speaker 1: me to the Internet. And that's actually one of the 161 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 1: reasons why. You know, I make a podcast about the Internet, 162 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 1: and oftentimes it's about things like harassment and all the 163 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:49,679 Speaker 1: different ways that the Internet. Yeah, I will get into it, 164 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:53,559 Speaker 1: but yeah, I mean I what brings me hope about 165 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 1: my experience online is weirdos. I really believe in the 166 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 1: power of a collective of people weirdo us who care 167 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 1: about the Internet, care about the health of the Internet, 168 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 1: care that they can express their weird interests on the Internet. 169 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 1: And I believe in the power of those weirdos to 170 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:10,720 Speaker 1: make the Internet a place where people want to spend 171 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:13,719 Speaker 1: their time. I mean, I feel like the Internet used 172 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 1: to feel more like I mean, I don't know. Maybe 173 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:19,560 Speaker 1: this is again the perspective of someone who was like 174 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:21,439 Speaker 1: on live journal a bunch all through high school and 175 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 1: then was on Tumbler all through college and stuff like that, 176 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:26,199 Speaker 1: But I feel like in a lot of ways, the 177 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:28,560 Speaker 1: Internet has gone bigger but also like smaller, Like I 178 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 1: feel like it's so much hard to find to like 179 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 1: not just find these like little enclaves of being like 180 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:38,080 Speaker 1: a weirdo, but also to feel like safe in them. 181 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:41,080 Speaker 1: Like this that feels very like you know, gooey, but 182 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 1: I mean, like sincerely, like I mean, I feel like 183 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 1: you can, like I mean, in the live general days, 184 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 1: you can have your little community where you're like a 185 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 1: literal like the live journal community where like you're and 186 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 1: it can be like a lot of community, even like 187 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 1: you don't have like random people who just want to 188 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:57,199 Speaker 1: harass you kind of like come in there, um. On Tumbler. 189 00:09:57,320 --> 00:09:59,080 Speaker 1: I do feel like it was a little more insulated 190 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 1: to Yeah, like some have something from a fandom I 191 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 1: have no interest in would come across my page and 192 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 1: I'd be like, what's going on over there? But like 193 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 1: it wasn't a thing where I really felt involved in 194 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 1: or had to get involved in. Now I can't like 195 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 1: tweet anything about like anything without someone being like, well, like, 196 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 1: I feel like, I, yeah, I really fucking hate strawberries, 197 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:18,840 Speaker 1: and someone's like, well, I only can only subsist on strawberries, 198 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:21,319 Speaker 1: So this is like really really wrong of you to say. 199 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: I mean, I just feel like it's it's harder in 200 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 1: some ways to have these spaces that don't feel like 201 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 1: you're always in danger of the wrong people getting ahold 202 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 1: of it. Um. But yeah, I don't really know, Like 203 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:41,320 Speaker 1: I don't know. I feel like I'm like thirty one now, 204 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 1: so I've been on the internet for like half my 205 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 1: life and shout out to one year old it's fad 206 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 1: to like being in your thirties and still being really 207 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 1: online and still like reading fan fiction. Yeah, I agree. 208 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 1: Um no, like literally, if I like open my like 209 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 1: tabs on my phone and be like Ao three, Ao three. 210 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 1: I so tempted to ask you to do that, but 211 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:04,679 Speaker 1: I mean put you on the spot. Let you want to. 212 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 1: I know, is that like whenever I'm in a spot 213 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 1: where like I'm feeling deeply, like in a dark place 214 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 1: or something, it's very nice to have that comfort of like, 215 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 1: let's see what like bad fan fiction I can read 216 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 1: right now just to like, you know, past the time. 217 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 1: I love it. Let's say a quick break at our back. 218 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 1: You know, we talked a little bit about this um 219 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 1: before we got started, but I think the experience of 220 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 1: being a particularly a black woman who has a pretty 221 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 1: big platform and a pretty big digital footprint online, I 222 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 1: don't know how the fun that happened. Yeah you, I mean, 223 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 1: you're hilarious and really trying to be humble. I'm like, 224 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: where are you people coming from? M But you know, 225 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 1: can you talk a bit about what that ex here? Yet? 226 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 1: It has been like for you? Like I sometimes feel 227 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:05,080 Speaker 1: like it can be a tight rope and I am 228 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: very um mindful of how I show up online because 229 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:10,319 Speaker 1: of it. I'm curious how it has impacted the way 230 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:12,840 Speaker 1: that you show up on online spaces. So you know, 231 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 1: I can't act like this has all been bad to 232 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 1: have like an audience. I mean when I was I 233 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:21,120 Speaker 1: had to go fund me to like raise money to 234 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 1: like swear our medical bills because when I got laid off, 235 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 1: that meant that, like my my boyfriend is insured through me, 236 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:29,200 Speaker 1: and we're in America, so that means that, like your 237 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 1: insurance is really like you know in limbo. So you know, yeah, 238 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 1: having a big platform allowed me to be able to 239 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 1: actually get a good amount of money to be able 240 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 1: to not worry about medical bills, like I'm not going 241 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 1: to act like I'm That's how that's unimportant. But also 242 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: it gets to the point where, like you know, when 243 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:48,800 Speaker 1: I really am on, I really was online because of 244 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:52,560 Speaker 1: online fandoms like that really is what kept me on 245 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:54,680 Speaker 1: these little quarters on the internet. And then you know, 246 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:58,120 Speaker 1: I did like, you know writing as my career, I 247 00:12:58,120 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: did a lot of political writing. I was. I mean, 248 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 1: it's hard to not be political for me just in 249 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 1: my like existence as a person. And I feel like, 250 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 1: I don't know something around the time election, I just 251 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:10,600 Speaker 1: got like a slew of people, which is like the 252 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 1: wrong time to get a lot of attention. Um and 253 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 1: I don't know, people just kept coming because I think 254 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 1: that when you see this, someone has a big like 255 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:20,319 Speaker 1: a lot of like a large Twitter following or something, 256 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:22,840 Speaker 1: you're like, oh, this is a person worth following to follow. 257 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:24,320 Speaker 1: I like, I don't know if I'm the right person 258 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:26,080 Speaker 1: for you, guys. I seem to be pissing you off 259 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 1: every single day. Um, so you know it's it's good 260 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 1: and bad. But in a lot of ways, like I've 261 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 1: had to be more mindful of like what I post. 262 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 1: Like I try not to write anything too personal on 263 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:44,440 Speaker 1: like Twitter, for example, anymore, because someone will always find 264 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: some reason like dunk on you or like they'll have 265 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:50,080 Speaker 1: screenshots and then like five months after you posted something 266 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:52,319 Speaker 1: to like but what about when you said this? So 267 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 1: I'm like, why is this in your phone? Like you know, 268 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 1: just to like pull up at the right moment um 269 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:01,160 Speaker 1: some weird out of context things. So you know, I've 270 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:04,559 Speaker 1: had to be a little more sterile on that front. 271 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:08,079 Speaker 1: I'll still post, like a still post some weird ship 272 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 1: Like I mean, it gets to the point where it's 273 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:11,079 Speaker 1: like I realized that, Like I don't know, Amy Klobaschar 274 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:12,679 Speaker 1: follows me, but I'm like, am I really going to 275 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 1: write about like I don't know, like Dobby Hagrid fan 276 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 1: fiction right now like a smigle. Like I'm like, I'm like, 277 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: you know what she her people decided to follow me, 278 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 1: this is what they're gonna get, so you know, and 279 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 1: if for those of you who know, you know, if 280 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: you know, you know, Um, I'm like, yeah, I'm just 281 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 1: gonna do this. So it's it's it's strange, but you 282 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 1: have to I just have to be really smart about 283 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 1: it so that people don't like find my number and 284 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 1: call me and yell at me, which has happened before. Yeah, 285 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 1: that's happened to you, like from things that you've written 286 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 1: on jez Bell about certain elected officials that that elected 287 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 1: officials fans found your you and your partner's number and 288 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 1: called you in the middle of the night to harrass you. Yeah, 289 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 1: it was. It was weird. Um. So it's like things 290 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 1: like that where you just don't really feel totally safe. 291 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 1: But um, yeah, I don't know. Now, everything I'm saying 292 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 1: is like, oh, is it worth happing all these people 293 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 1: following on the internet? And maybe not? But I can't 294 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 1: I mean, I can't help. But I'm not gonna not 295 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 1: have a big mouth anymore. I'm just gonna be a 296 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 1: little bit more selective about what I'm a big mouth about. Yeah, 297 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:17,120 Speaker 1: I I love you know, shout out to women with 298 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 1: big mouths who do not shut the funk up, I am. 299 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 1: I may we raise them, maybe be them, Um, you know, 300 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 1: speaking of that, Like, there's one topic. So I also 301 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 1: have a big mouth, and I use my platform to 302 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 1: talk about whatever I want. But there has been one 303 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 1: topic recently that I have really not spoken up about 304 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 1: because I have seen the way that any person who 305 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 1: speaks up about it sort of gets silenced and harassed. 306 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 1: And that is the Johnny Depp amber her trial, right, So, like, 307 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 1: I tweeted one thing and then I quickly deleted it, 308 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 1: and I have not tweeted anything since. But you're actually 309 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 1: someone who really is vocal about it and like uses 310 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 1: your platform to have conversations about it. And I guess 311 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,280 Speaker 1: I'm curious. You know, I love the Internet and I'm 312 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 1: hopeful about the Internet. But when I think about the 313 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 1: state of the Internet, specifically for survivors, I'm so concerned 314 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:12,120 Speaker 1: that we're building an Internet ecosystem where it's not okay 315 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 1: for survivors to speak up. And I'm wondering, like, what 316 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 1: do you think about that? I think my main I 317 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 1: think my omissional thought is like I feel like that 318 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 1: Internet has been here for a long time. I feel 319 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 1: like that there's been like a movement of pushback against 320 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 1: that because I feel like that's the default. The default 321 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 1: is to silence survivors and to tell people to shut 322 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 1: up and to you know, do that. So I feel 323 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 1: like there's been a movement to push against that, and 324 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 1: I guess recently it's kind of felt like it's like 325 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 1: faltered a little bit, you know, um just add that's 326 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 1: the list of things to feel like a little pessimisticly. 327 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: But I mean, I'm ultimately an optimist, but like you 328 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:49,120 Speaker 1: see some of these like, you know, I'm not a 329 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 1: conspiracy theory really person, but like I can't even like 330 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: look up like a how to video on YouTube without 331 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 1: being like suggested like five times Johnny Depp like to 332 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 1: really like you know, owned Amberger. You know, I'm just 333 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 1: like I don't look up anything about this. I maybe, 334 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:09,199 Speaker 1: like right the occasional like tweet about it, but like 335 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:12,359 Speaker 1: when it's like just being infected into like your feeds 336 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,680 Speaker 1: and everything, it's it's kind of I don't know, it's 337 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 1: it's very aggressive and kind of scary. Um. I don't know. 338 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:23,400 Speaker 1: It just seems like there's so much regression on so 339 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: many different levels that like, I think this is just 340 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 1: one small part of it. Um. But yeah, it's it's 341 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 1: hard to be an optimist on the Internet right now. 342 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:37,919 Speaker 1: I feel like you're either seeing something awful or seeing 343 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 1: awful things happen other people and all of stuff. But 344 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:43,159 Speaker 1: that's all that's I think that's the reason why I 345 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 1: kind of do gravitate towards these like little circles I 346 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 1: have that make me feel like again, like safe seems 347 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:51,840 Speaker 1: like such. It feels like such a gooey word to me. 348 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 1: But yeah, like when I see something like when I 349 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:56,920 Speaker 1: sometimes needs to stop doom scrolling and be like, let 350 00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:00,439 Speaker 1: me just like talk about something really goofy, Like let 351 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,639 Speaker 1: me like reminiscent about someone about like dash con with 352 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:05,960 Speaker 1: someone you know who gets it or something like that. 353 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 1: Like it feels nice to kind of have these we're 354 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:12,479 Speaker 1: facing all this kind of like Internet history to kind 355 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:14,160 Speaker 1: of fall back on, to think of, like, oh, yeah, 356 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 1: there were times when the Internet was just really funny 357 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:18,720 Speaker 1: and really fun and like goofy, and there are still 358 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 1: those times. But I don't know, do you have a 359 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 1: favorite goofy, funny Internet moment that sticks out to you. 360 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:30,560 Speaker 1: Are this one that you that is memorable to you? God, 361 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:33,160 Speaker 1: that's a really good question. Again, this is we're going 362 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 1: We're talking about like fifteen years of like everything that's 363 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 1: happened on the Internet. I'm like going through my head, 364 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 1: like you know, um, okay, Well, dash Con was obviously iconic. 365 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 1: Anyone who was on Tumbler during dash Con knows that 366 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 1: was maybe like the most hilarious three days on the internet. Um, 367 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:53,200 Speaker 1: kind of sad, but like really funny. Um yeah, you know. 368 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 1: Someone asked me this recently, like what was like one 369 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:57,040 Speaker 1: of the funniest days on the Internet, And I'm like, 370 00:18:57,920 --> 00:18:59,640 Speaker 1: I don't know. Is it inappropriate for me to say, 371 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 1: like when Trump got COVID, I remember that. I'm sorry 372 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 1: not to I'm not making light of that, but just 373 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 1: like it was that was a wild night. We can't 374 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:12,639 Speaker 1: deny that it was a wild night, right, Like, whether 375 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 1: that's appropriate for it was a wild night. I remember 376 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 1: I was still working at just Ave all the time, 377 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:17,920 Speaker 1: and I was the only one who was like up 378 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:20,280 Speaker 1: that late. My editors were all asleep, and I'm like, 379 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 1: I think I need to post this. I think I 380 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 1: need to post this. What do I do? I don't 381 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:25,119 Speaker 1: know how to do, like and like I don't know. 382 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:27,919 Speaker 1: My one coworker who was like definitely like Stone in 383 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:31,120 Speaker 1: California is like, I don't know, try it, and I'm 384 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 1: just like I'm just gonna post it. And then it 385 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 1: was I don't know. For some reason, that was like 386 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 1: a very dramatic moment for me where I'm like I 387 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 1: got to post the news. Um, but yeah, maybe I 388 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:43,080 Speaker 1: shouldn't say it was a funny day. It was an 389 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:45,360 Speaker 1: intense day. It was an intense night on the internet. 390 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:50,920 Speaker 1: Um yeah, god, if anyone I mean and also any 391 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:54,960 Speaker 1: just like weird fandom saying that's happened, Like I don't know, 392 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 1: I really look back on like some like I feel 393 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:00,680 Speaker 1: like I don't even have like you've written moments on 394 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 1: the internet. I just have like really weird things I 395 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 1: specifically remember, and maybe five other people I know also remember, 396 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 1: you know, like a weird like remember when like the 397 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 1: Supernatural fans were doing were like really into this one 398 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:12,639 Speaker 1: thing and like I wasn't even into the show, but 399 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:14,639 Speaker 1: I knew about it, Like you know, I don't know, 400 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:18,600 Speaker 1: but yeah, why do you think that fandom has been 401 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 1: such a grounding experience about how you show up online, 402 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:25,679 Speaker 1: like what is it about fandom and you know, nerding 403 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 1: out about niche things. That is really solidified your online experience, 404 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:31,679 Speaker 1: I think because that's where I met so many friends 405 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:35,879 Speaker 1: like I have. Probably there are friends I met on 406 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 1: live journal and I was sixteen that I'm still friends 407 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 1: with to this day. We like hang out around like 408 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 1: the city and stuff. And I think that if it 409 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:45,399 Speaker 1: wasn't for making friends through these mediums like make you 410 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 1: know I've I probably wouldn't care as much. I woulduld 411 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 1: be really easy to kind of like have like a 412 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:51,960 Speaker 1: fleeting interest in something and just kind of like going 413 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 1: off to something else. But like having friendships that you've 414 00:20:54,320 --> 00:21:00,239 Speaker 1: developed over this really weird, niche internet like phenomenon is 415 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:03,080 Speaker 1: like very special, I feel like, and not every most 416 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 1: people don't have that experience, and I think that's what 417 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:08,919 Speaker 1: has kept me on the internet. It wasn't like political commentary, 418 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:12,119 Speaker 1: it wasn't like making people mad on Twitter. It was 419 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:16,600 Speaker 1: like weird Fanish stuff that you know, put me where 420 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:19,479 Speaker 1: I am now, even if you know that's that's been 421 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 1: my whole thing. More. After a quick break, let's get 422 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:44,120 Speaker 1: right back into it. Yeah, And I wanted to talk 423 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 1: briefly about sort of this I guess. I guess I 424 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:49,439 Speaker 1: feel like we're in this very weird moment when it 425 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:52,639 Speaker 1: comes to the Internet, particularly around people who are traditionally marginalized. 426 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 1: I know that you were among the people who were 427 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 1: laid off at Netflix. And Netflix had hired a lot 428 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:01,679 Speaker 1: of marginalized folks like we're folks, black women, um, and 429 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:04,280 Speaker 1: then laid a lot of them off. And I remember 430 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:07,240 Speaker 1: when that happened. The commentary that I saw that was 431 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:09,439 Speaker 1: sort of like, hey, hey, that's what you get. It 432 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:12,640 Speaker 1: was sort of either a was like, well, what did 433 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 1: you expect selling out, you know, for a big, big 434 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 1: platform like Netflix, or be like oh Netflix, you know, 435 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:21,480 Speaker 1: go woke, go broke. This is what they get for 436 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:25,240 Speaker 1: hiring all these people to champion marginal you know, traditionally 437 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:28,479 Speaker 1: marginalized voices. I guess my question is like, why do 438 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 1: you think that platforms like Netflix and the Internet seems 439 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:36,359 Speaker 1: to be this new kind of ideological battleground where people 440 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 1: are really hashing out these partisan ideological fights on these spaces, 441 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:41,919 Speaker 1: and it's it seems to be this sort of like 442 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:44,679 Speaker 1: push pull for power, like who has it, who doesn't 443 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 1: have it? Um, who can amass it? I mean, what 444 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:49,879 Speaker 1: I can speak to just the way I mean, I 445 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 1: can't speak anything specifically about my situation, but like I 446 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 1: guess I'm just increasingly fascinated by the kind of way 447 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,040 Speaker 1: that Like again, I think that this just kind of 448 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:02,960 Speaker 1: goes back to how the Internet is so much bigger 449 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 1: but feel so much smaller now, Like you just really 450 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 1: don't have the same kind of privacy and enclaves that 451 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 1: you used to. Anyone who's been online since like the 452 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:12,400 Speaker 1: two thousand's probably understands what I mean, where you could 453 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 1: really kind of have your own individual spaces talk about 454 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:16,400 Speaker 1: these and this wouldn't be something that they're talking about 455 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:19,399 Speaker 1: on cable news or that like you know, or a 456 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:21,679 Speaker 1: podcast or anything else. It wouldn't be like in the 457 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 1: main in the main stream. So I think it's just 458 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:28,840 Speaker 1: the they're probably other people can talk about this way 459 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,199 Speaker 1: better than I can, or make more eloquently. But like 460 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:33,639 Speaker 1: the kind of main streaming of the Internet and main 461 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:37,680 Speaker 1: streaming of Internet spaces I think has been probably one 462 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:39,920 Speaker 1: of the biggest things that we're seeing in the last 463 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 1: like I don't know, decade or so, Like how these 464 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:44,720 Speaker 1: kind of things that used to be things that you 465 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:46,240 Speaker 1: just kind of talk about, you can only really talk 466 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:48,160 Speaker 1: about with a few people, end up becoming like these 467 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:52,600 Speaker 1: huge cultural phenomenons. Um, sure good things have come from it, 468 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:54,960 Speaker 1: but like, I don't know, there's something a little there's 469 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,359 Speaker 1: something lost, There's something that's been lost. I think in 470 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:04,040 Speaker 1: having these things kind of proliferate the mainstream, because yeah, 471 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:05,920 Speaker 1: there are ways in which they can be used for good. 472 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 1: We're talking about like marginalized people. I remember just be 473 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:12,040 Speaker 1: on tumbler, marginalized people talking about their experiences, talking about 474 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 1: like just or just griping about something, talking about, oh 475 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 1: why can't I find things that are in my size, 476 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 1: like things like that, Like those things. Yeah, they became mainstream, 477 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:20,880 Speaker 1: and in some ways it's been good. In some ways 478 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 1: it's just been like, you know, a magnet for harassment 479 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:27,640 Speaker 1: and magnet for people dismissing you, magnet for like, you know, 480 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:31,200 Speaker 1: everything else. So it's it really feels cliche to be 481 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 1: like the inter that's a double edged sword, but like 482 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,159 Speaker 1: what else? How else can you describe it? It's been 483 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:37,119 Speaker 1: the place where I've found the most important people in 484 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,240 Speaker 1: my life and have also experienced one of the some 485 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 1: of the most like traumatic, harassing experiences of my life. 486 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:48,359 Speaker 1: You know, it's it's something that's been like com modified. 487 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:50,520 Speaker 1: It's something that's been like you know, bought and sold 488 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 1: and stuff like that. It's just it's weird. It's a 489 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:57,119 Speaker 1: weird place. I guess. Yeah, I feel the exact same way. 490 00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:00,760 Speaker 1: And it makes me kind of sad because why, you know, 491 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 1: I feel like I grew up on the internet kind 492 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 1: of like you've moved to my life on the internet. 493 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,959 Speaker 1: In a lot of ways, it's my hometown. And you know, 494 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,479 Speaker 1: it makes me sad when I think about how I 495 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 1: used to show up so hopeful and so excited, and 496 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 1: you know, I was really the day that my parents 497 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:22,199 Speaker 1: brought me a computer, like this bossy, gray nightmare of 498 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 1: a thing that took up our whole fucking desk, and 499 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 1: you know, the day, the day that they brought that home, 500 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 1: it was like they brought me a pair of wings, 501 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:31,119 Speaker 1: and it was just discovery. That's the only thing that 502 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,920 Speaker 1: I remember being the Internet being about. And now when 503 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 1: I show up there, I'm so guarded, I'm so careful. 504 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,680 Speaker 1: I'm I just don't want to be on the end 505 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 1: of what you've just described harassment pylons, and it's so 506 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 1: much really bad faith, you know, attacks and stuff like. 507 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:48,879 Speaker 1: I mean, I I think we're all kind of guilty 508 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 1: of doing this. We're all kind of guilty of like 509 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 1: the easy dunk. We're all kind of guilty of the 510 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,639 Speaker 1: like work at this like dumb fucking tweet or like 511 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 1: something like that, or like something we think is like 512 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 1: we're none of us are innocent in that regard. I've 513 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:04,119 Speaker 1: definitely complicit. I've been a huge bitch on the internet 514 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 1: before um, and so you know, I don't think we're 515 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 1: above it. I don't think that all the harassment and 516 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:12,679 Speaker 1: everything is like new. I think this has been happening 517 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 1: for a long time now, especially for the last decade. 518 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 1: But I do think just for me personally, it's kind 519 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:20,359 Speaker 1: of weird that it's gone to a point where like 520 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,480 Speaker 1: I regularly have to like lock my account in case 521 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 1: like the wrong person gets it, or in case like 522 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 1: I don't know, some right wing weirdo gets it, and 523 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:31,760 Speaker 1: then it just goes into a complete other part of 524 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,439 Speaker 1: the Internet that I don't know about. And yeah, you 525 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 1: do have I do have to be more guard I 526 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 1: can't be quite as like open about my personal life 527 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,960 Speaker 1: because people are weird and you know, I want to 528 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,399 Speaker 1: guard something, so yeah, I'll give them like the hot takes. 529 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:51,200 Speaker 1: And I don't know, reminiscing about old smut fan fiction 530 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,280 Speaker 1: from like I keep talking about smutty fan fiction, but 531 00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 1: really it's a really big part of my life on 532 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,640 Speaker 1: the internet. Um, but like the other stuff, I really 533 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 1: have to keep closer to, you know, closer the best. Yeah, 534 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,920 Speaker 1: do you? I mean, I guess that's that's really brings 535 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:08,680 Speaker 1: me to one of my last questions, like, are you 536 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,120 Speaker 1: when you think about the state of the internet, especially 537 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,159 Speaker 1: for people who are traditionally marginalized, are you hopeful Are 538 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 1: you hopeful that it will be a place where folks 539 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 1: can find their their find community and find their shared interests, 540 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:26,160 Speaker 1: whether it's politics or activism or you know, smut. Are 541 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,480 Speaker 1: you hopeful of the internet being like a place for 542 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:34,119 Speaker 1: self discovery, particularly for people who are traditionally marginalized. I 543 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:37,280 Speaker 1: think like it goes back to that kind of response, 544 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 1: or I mean, I mean, marginalized people are always going 545 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 1: to find communities online, and I think that that's like 546 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 1: a really beautiful thing. I think that that's like important. 547 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 1: I don't think that that should I think I don't 548 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:50,240 Speaker 1: think that the bad stuff online has diminished. That people 549 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 1: are always going to find whether it's like I don't 550 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 1: know whether it's people who are marginalized, whether there's people 551 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:56,920 Speaker 1: who are just like really into some like K pop group. 552 00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,280 Speaker 1: Everyone will go all the stands were fund will find you, 553 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:03,840 Speaker 1: They will find their people. But I just think that 554 00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:07,159 Speaker 1: gone other days where you can kind of feel like 555 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:10,880 Speaker 1: you're insulated, and there was a comfort in being insulated, 556 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 1: and now you can't even be like a weirdo online 557 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,399 Speaker 1: if like the wrong person finds it and it's just like, 558 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:17,480 Speaker 1: look of these guys over here, and it's like, I'm 559 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:19,639 Speaker 1: just overhear hanging out, Like, let me be weird in 560 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 1: this quarter. I'm not bothering you. So that's gotten harder 561 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:27,639 Speaker 1: with you know, the Internet just isn't as private as 562 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,359 Speaker 1: it used to be. Yeah, I want to interviewed this 563 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,720 Speaker 1: amazing Internet historian Claire Evans, and she said that it's 564 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,400 Speaker 1: interesting that the internet used to be where you went 565 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 1: to be anonymous, and the real world was where you 566 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 1: went to be like who like who you are, and 567 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 1: now it's completely flipped. The Internet is where you are 568 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,960 Speaker 1: where you go to be like really manacle to your 569 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:50,040 Speaker 1: government name and the real world is where you go 570 00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 1: to experience anonymity. And it's so interesting that we're in 571 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 1: this space where it's been completely flipped. Like back in 572 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 1: the day when I was first exploring the Internet, it 573 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,280 Speaker 1: felt like discovery and and emity and like, you know, 574 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 1: this is gonna sound very cheesy, but like the old 575 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,240 Speaker 1: days of like the hacker online and like black leather 576 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:11,120 Speaker 1: fingerless gloves and blogging on exactly right, Like that was 577 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,200 Speaker 1: the Internet experience that I feel like I was signing 578 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 1: up for when I was younger, and these days that 579 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:17,440 Speaker 1: that is a thing, that is a fiction, that it 580 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 1: is no longer what we have. And I don't know, 581 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:21,800 Speaker 1: I don't know what that says about the state of 582 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,400 Speaker 1: the Internet today and like how we all show up 583 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 1: on it. But I I'm really hopeful to carve out 584 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:32,400 Speaker 1: those spaces that feel like discovery and joy and connection 585 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,400 Speaker 1: and anonymity if that's what you want. And I'm hopeful 586 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 1: that we can really preserve that that feeling for the 587 00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 1: next generation online, I hope. So I guess we need 588 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 1: to find like a Devian art or whatever for like 589 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:45,600 Speaker 1: the zoomers or something again, if you know, you know, 590 00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:50,200 Speaker 1: but I know, but yeah, no, I think, like, you know, 591 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:52,480 Speaker 1: the Internet, I would like it to be in a 592 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 1: place where, yeah, we're gonna be able to have to 593 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 1: share among different spaces, but I would hope that it's 594 00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 1: also couldn't be more of a space for people can 595 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 1: enjoy an heart, can partake in harmless fun without feeling 596 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:07,040 Speaker 1: like they're gonna be like violated. You know, we deserve that, 597 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 1: we deserve to have Internet spaces where we can partake 598 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 1: in whatever nerdy, harmless fun we want without agreeing like 599 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:15,800 Speaker 1: we're going to get violated exactly. Actually, where can folks 600 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:19,320 Speaker 1: keep up with all the amazing stuff that you're up to? Okay, 601 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:23,240 Speaker 1: you can follow me at offbeat Orbit on Twitter, Instagram, 602 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 1: stuff like that. I don't. I don't use tumbler anymore, 603 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 1: but now I'm like, maybe I need to go back. 604 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,000 Speaker 1: It might be time for a Tumbler revival. Like I 605 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:31,720 Speaker 1: kind of peeked around for a little bit, like a 606 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:33,760 Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago. I'm like, okay, the girls are 607 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:37,000 Speaker 1: still on here, like really like causing havoc, Like let's 608 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:40,320 Speaker 1: let's tap in, so you know, but also if you 609 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 1: type in Ashley Rees anywhere I should pop up talk 610 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,240 Speaker 1: about lack of anonymity like I'm at that point. Now 611 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 1: give it up for Ashley Rees. Thank you well, Thank 612 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 1: you all for listening, and thank you Ashley for being here. 613 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 1: If you want to hear more conversations about the experience 614 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 1: of being a traditionally an storically marginalized person online, you 615 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:04,760 Speaker 1: can subscribe to my podcast on iHeart Radio what's called 616 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet and we would 617 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 1: love to have you there. My name is Bridget Todd. 618 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:10,520 Speaker 1: This has been amazing. Thank you so much for having me. 619 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,200 Speaker 1: Good Bye, and if you want to talk about weird 620 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:17,040 Speaker 1: fan fiction, you can also find me. I'm in the jumpsuit. Yes. 621 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:23,960 Speaker 1: If you're looking for ways to support the show, check 622 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,600 Speaker 1: out our merk store at tangodi dot com. Slash store. 623 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 1: Got a story about an interesting thing in tech? I 624 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 1: just want to say hi. You can reach us at 625 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:34,560 Speaker 1: Hello at tangodi dot com. You can also find transcripts 626 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,000 Speaker 1: for today's episode at tangodi dot com. There Are No 627 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 1: Girls on the Internet was created by me Bridget Todd. 628 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:42,520 Speaker 1: It's a production of iHeart Radio and Unboss Creative, edited 629 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:46,400 Speaker 1: by Joey Pat Jonathan Strictland as our executive producer. Terry 630 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 1: Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amado is 631 00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:52,560 Speaker 1: our contributing producer. I'm your host, bridget Todd. If you 632 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 1: want to help us grow, rate and review us on 633 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from I heeart Radio, check 634 00:31:57,720 --> 00:31:59,840 Speaker 1: out the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you 635 00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:00,800 Speaker 1: get your podcasts