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Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, thanks for coming back and coming along this

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Speaker 1: journey with me. Like I mentioned in the previous episodes,

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Speaker 1: I'm in the middle of a divorce. The end of

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Speaker 1: my marriage played out on reality TV, which really did

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Speaker 1: add an extra layer that's already difficult and a painful process.

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Speaker 1: As I found myself deciding to end my marriage, I

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Speaker 1: realized that I really didn't have a clue about the

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Speaker 1: divorce process. So I'm super excited for our guest today

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Speaker 1: because I have so many questions and I'm sure this

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Speaker 1: conversation will resonate with many of you. Welcome family law

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Speaker 1: attorney Dennis Bentrano, who also hosts his own podcast called

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Speaker 1: The DRV Law Show Podcast.

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Speaker 2: Hi Dennis, Hey Michelle, how are you good to meet you?

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Speaker 2: Good to meet you.

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Speaker 1: I'm so excited and I've been watching you for years.

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Speaker 1: I love I think you're so insightful and everything I've

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Speaker 1: seen on social media is incredible.

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Speaker 2: You're very knowledgeable in what you do.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much. I'm glad to be on the show.

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Speaker 3: It'll be a good opportunity for us to chat about

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Speaker 3: the process.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, so I kind of want to start from the

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Speaker 1: very beginning. You know, most people when they get married,

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Speaker 1: they don't plan on getting divorced. So what is that

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Speaker 1: first thing someone should do when they start contemplating leaving

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Speaker 1: their spouse.

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Speaker 3: I always tell people when you utter those words for

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Speaker 3: the first time, I want a divorce, or threaten the divorce,

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Speaker 3: or you're having an argument back and forth and that

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Speaker 3: thought even crosses your mind, that's the point at which

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Speaker 3: you really need to, you know, step back and I

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Speaker 3: think be really thoughtful about the decision, because clearly it's

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Speaker 3: something you're contemplating and it's a huge decision to make.

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Speaker 3: Not that I'm discouraging people from doing it, but really

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Speaker 3: be thoughtful about, like making that ultimate decision. And once

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Speaker 3: you know that that's a direction you need to go

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Speaker 3: in in your life to reach that next phase of

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Speaker 3: your life or to turn that proverbial page, then it's

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Speaker 3: time to start surrounding yourself with a group of people

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Speaker 3: who are really just going to be your support team.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, And for myself, you know, I did have friends

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Speaker 1: that were in the divorce process, so it was helpful

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Speaker 1: for me. They recommended attorneys, But I feel like if

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Speaker 1: you don't have friends who are in the same boat

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Speaker 1: as you, there's just so much there's just so much

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Speaker 1: information out there, Like what do you look for when

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Speaker 1: you're trying to find the right divorce attorney.

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Speaker 3: That's a hard one. I think choosing the right lawyer

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Speaker 3: can be one of the most difficult decisions you'll make,

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Speaker 3: especially right out of the gate. But I think, look,

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Speaker 3: there's a couple of tips that I would have in

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Speaker 3: that regard. I think, certainly read reviews, Certainly consume as

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Speaker 3: much information as you can that's out there, because right

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Speaker 3: now we're at a very unique point in time in

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Speaker 3: that there's so much free information out there about navigating

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Speaker 3: the process. So start consuming that free information that's out there.

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Speaker 3: Read some reviews, take a look at some websites, and

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Speaker 3: then just go in and meet with people. I will

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Speaker 3: tell you the best divorce lawyers are also really good people,

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Speaker 3: and they tend to exude a level of confidence about

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Speaker 3: their craft. And you would be surprised how insightful a layperson,

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Speaker 3: somebody goes no legal training at all, can be about

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Speaker 3: choosing the right lawyer if they take their time and

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Speaker 3: they're thoughtful about it. When you go into a lawyer's office,

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Speaker 3: you know, nine times out of ten you're gonna know

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Speaker 3: you're gonna walk in the office. It's gonna look organized,

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Speaker 3: it's gonna look like a well put together operation. And

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Speaker 3: then when you meet with that lawyer, you know they're

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Speaker 3: gonna sit down and they're gonna talk to you.

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Speaker 4: The good lawyers.

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Speaker 3: Are gonna make you feel like you're in the right place,

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Speaker 3: and you'd be surprised. Trust your gut, you'll know.

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Speaker 2: I feel the same way.

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Speaker 1: I interviewed a couple lawyers and I just, you know,

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Speaker 1: somebody who understood me, and I connected with them, and

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Speaker 1: I just felt like they would really push for me.

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Speaker 1: That's who I ended up going with.

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Speaker 3: Here's an important piece about that, Michelle.

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Speaker 4: Think about this.

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Speaker 3: You interviewed a few lawyers. That's a really important tip

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Speaker 3: right there. Make sure you don't go into a lawyer's

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Speaker 3: office like, oh, I'm gonna find this lawyer, this one

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Speaker 3: looks good, I'm gonna choose this one today. Don't go

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Speaker 3: into it in that way. Interview a few lawyers and

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Speaker 3: see where you feel comfortable.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, And I think I actually learned the wrong the

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Speaker 1: hard way. I learned the hard way because initially we

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Speaker 1: tried working with a mediator and we didn't ask any

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Speaker 1: questions and we just kind of found one and hired her,

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Speaker 1: and it just was not a good person for us

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Speaker 1: to work with.

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Speaker 3: I tell people when I do consultations, I say, after

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Speaker 3: I do a consultation with a client, I'll say, I

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Speaker 3: want you to go home and think about this, and

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Speaker 3: I want you to call us back if you feel

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Speaker 3: like we're a good fit for you. And that speaks

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Speaker 3: volumes anybody that's trying to like, Oh, don't worry about it,

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Speaker 3: I'll take care of it.

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Speaker 4: I've got it all settled for you. I've got y'all

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Speaker 4: to get y'all taken care of.

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Speaker 3: Be cautious about those sort of approaches and those types

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Speaker 3: of personalities in either divorce mediation or in divorce law.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with you.

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Speaker 1: And so I didn't know anything about a mediator, And

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Speaker 1: so what do you know, if somebody can't afford an attorney,

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Speaker 1: what do you recommend.

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Speaker 3: I wholeheartedly believe in the divorce mediation process.

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Speaker 4: I really do.

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Speaker 3: I think it's something that should work for most couples,

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Speaker 3: not all most, And I'll put a little asterisk next

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Speaker 3: to that, it's not you know, mediation can take on

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Speaker 3: multiple different forms, right. It can be two parties working

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Speaker 3: with a mediator, It can be two parties with their

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Speaker 3: own lawyers working with a mediator, or it can also

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Speaker 3: be the lawyers taking a large role and really being

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Speaker 3: involved in representing their clients in the context of the

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Speaker 3: mediation process. I mean, look, it's going to vary from

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Speaker 3: state to state and from you know, county to county

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Speaker 3: what the rules are. But I will say, generally speaking,

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Speaker 3: going into the divorce process, like I need to find

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Speaker 3: something that's fair in the form of an amicable resolution

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Speaker 3: that will get me to the other side. If that's

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Speaker 3: the mentality of both parties, mediation can work.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 3: And then you just need to figure out which which

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Speaker 3: you know, system, which which type of mediation works best

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Speaker 3: for you. I always suggest, like, look, especially if it's

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Speaker 3: kids and there's a lot of complexities, and it's a

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Speaker 3: long term marriage and there's high assets, you know, you

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Speaker 3: probably best off each having your own lawyer and then

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Speaker 3: trying to work with a mediator on the things that

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Speaker 3: would be too costly or wasteful in terms of legal

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Speaker 3: fees having the lawyers go back and forth and back

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Speaker 3: and forth and back and forth.

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Speaker 2: I didn't know that. So you could have both an

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Speaker 2: attorney and a mediator.

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Speaker 3: You can and the situations that we typically do. So

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Speaker 3: we have two certified divorce mediators here, I'm one of them.

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Speaker 3: We have multiple divorce attorneys, so we deal with every

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Speaker 3: type of scenario in terms of in the context of mediation.

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Speaker 3: We have situations where we're just the lawyers just sitting

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Speaker 3: on the sidelines, advising along the way, giving legal advice,

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Speaker 3: making sure that the agreement that you ultimately reached in

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Speaker 3: your case is fair to you, and making sure whichever

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Speaker 3: whatever written agreement you ultimately arrive at is correctly properly

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Speaker 3: drafted to ensure that it protects your interests.

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Speaker 4: We do that.

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Speaker 3: We've also been the mediator where there's lawyers. Each party

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Speaker 3: has their own lawyer and we're the mediator in the middle.

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Speaker 3: So I do think that tends to be the more

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Speaker 3: thorough approach. It is a little bit more costly, but

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Speaker 3: I do think it's worth it. It's, like I said,

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Speaker 3: complexities in your case where you feel like it's very

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Speaker 3: important to have a lawyer representing your interests, and yet

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Speaker 3: you really want to try to, you know, just get

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Speaker 3: a fair resolution and reach an agreement together.

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Speaker 1: I know it's a really broad question, but like I

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Speaker 1: had no idea going into a divorce, like, what can

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Speaker 1: the timeline be like realistically?

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Speaker 3: I mean, you know, it's funny I get this question

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Speaker 3: all the time and I usually tell people my fastest,

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Speaker 3: my quickest divorce that we've ever completed here was sixty

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Speaker 3: days start to finish. So that's from the date they

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Speaker 3: came into the office and sign a retainer agreement until

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Speaker 3: the date we had a judgment of divorce in hand.

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Speaker 3: So but that's like hyper speed. And that was a

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Speaker 3: situation where it's straightforward, limited assets, not a lot of

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Speaker 3: complexities with kids, and the parties came in and they said, hey,

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Speaker 3: you know, we've reached an agreement. We really just want

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Speaker 3: you guys to draft it up for us. And we

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Speaker 3: did that and we got it done pretty quickly. But

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Speaker 3: I have also seen those cases where and again these

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Speaker 3: are rare.

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Speaker 4: But you do have them.

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Speaker 3: A judge, you know, you change judges in your case

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Speaker 3: because the end of their term comes up, lawyer dies

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Speaker 3: or they change lawyers. And those cases are cases that

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Speaker 3: have pended for years, you know. In addition to obviously

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Speaker 3: there's motions back and forth and people are arguing about

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Speaker 3: the you know, the silliest things. So I think with divorces.

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Speaker 3: It's one of those things where it can be as

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Speaker 3: short as as possible, say sixty days, it can also

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Speaker 3: be years. And that's why, like I said, I think

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Speaker 3: it's very important when you go into the process that

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Speaker 3: you understand it is a humongous life change for both parties.

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Speaker 3: It can be such a complex not just from a

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Speaker 3: legal standpoint, but also from a mental and emotional standpoint.

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Speaker 3: Process to go through that you really need to you know,

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Speaker 3: get organized, understand the you know, and approach it in

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Speaker 3: stepwise fashion. Like, Hey, for the mental and emotional I

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Speaker 3: need to get a support team with me. I need

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Speaker 3: to have friends. I need to have a good lawyer.

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Speaker 3: I need to have maybe a counselor with me. Maybe

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Speaker 3: I need a divorce coach. You know, get prepared, get

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Speaker 3: a list of the things you need to do to start,

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Speaker 3: you know, a to do list, and then you know,

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Speaker 3: go down through the process.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because I can say, even for my mental health,

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Speaker 1: like it's very taxing to constantly get emails and try

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Speaker 1: to find information and don't like I can't even imagine

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Speaker 1: not having a lawyer or some guidance.

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Speaker 4: It's a tough process.

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Speaker 3: And again I think for us as the lawyers. I

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Speaker 3: want to be your legal expert. Obviously, I'm so familiar

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Speaker 3: with every facet of the divorce process in that I've

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Speaker 3: done it for twenty five years, from everything for the

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Speaker 3: most simple divorce to the most complex, you know, acrimonious,

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Speaker 3: multimillion dollar construction company divorce. But I want to be

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Speaker 3: your lawyer. I don't want to be your counselor, and

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Speaker 3: I can't be your friend. But I want to tell you, hey,

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Speaker 3: you know, get get your support team together, do the

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Speaker 3: things you need to do to get your emotions under control,

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Speaker 3: and make sure you're okay mentally right, to really be

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Speaker 3: patient to get the right result throughout your case. And

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Speaker 3: then I'm going to help you get the fair result.

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Speaker 1: And something I didn't know, Like I've always heard the

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Speaker 1: term before, but it's never really discussed, you know, prenups.

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Speaker 1: And recently I even learned about post once you're married.

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Speaker 1: Once you're married, that can be very helpful. I wish

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Speaker 1: I had more information about that. And it's like you

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Speaker 1: kind of get scared, like you're getting married to somebody.

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Speaker 1: The last thing you're thinking about is like, hey, let's

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Speaker 1: do a prenup, right, But what do you think about prenups.

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Speaker 3: And listen, I think prenups in a lot of ways

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Speaker 3: get a bad rap. I mean, if you watch the

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Speaker 3: content that I put out there, I've spent twenty five

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Speaker 3: years handling divorce cases. The best way for me to

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Speaker 3: help people is take that twenty five years of experience

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Speaker 3: for people and work backwards.

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Speaker 4: Okay, what could we have.

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Speaker 3: Done to help us either through the process or to

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Speaker 3: help us land in a better relationship or even keep

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Speaker 3: that relationship intact? And I think, I think you know

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Speaker 3: prenups is one of the things, and it's not for

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Speaker 3: the reasons that you know. The reason why I'm pro

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Speaker 3: pren up is not for the reasons people think I'm

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Speaker 3: pro prene up as much for the fact that it's

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Speaker 3: transparency at the outset as anything else. So think of

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Speaker 3: it like this, Before you get married, don't you want

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Speaker 3: to know what each of your finances is like? Don't

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Speaker 3: you don't you want to know what each of you

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Speaker 3: expects from the other should the worst happen? Because that

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Speaker 3: speaks volumes about people's personality and the person that you're

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Speaker 3: ultimately going to dedicate your life to. And I think

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Speaker 3: you know I'm finding that young professionals in today's day

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Speaker 3: and age are doing them more and more frequently. So yeah,

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Speaker 3: I'm a big proponent of prenups, and just as much

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Speaker 3: because it gives you transparency before you commit your life

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Speaker 3: to someone as any other reason.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, and talk to me about how people change during

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Speaker 1: divorce and can even be unrecognizable.

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Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, it's funny because.

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Speaker 2: You got people at their worst.

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Speaker 3: One hundred percent out there worth. So a couple of

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Speaker 3: a couple of things I'll share with you on that point.

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Speaker 3: I think you know, I heard this saying the other day,

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Speaker 3: and I think it's one hundred percent true. The person

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Speaker 3: you divorce is not the person you married.

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Speaker 4: They're a different person.

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Speaker 3: And I think that's true not only because people you've

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Speaker 3: all when they change over time, and they also can

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Speaker 3: get nasty when the divorce process you know, comes on,

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Speaker 3: But I think you know also because in those sorts

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Speaker 3: of circumstances, you know, they they just change over time.

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Speaker 4: So I think.

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Speaker 3: It's just important when you're choosing someone to dedicate your

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Speaker 3: life to. When we keep get going back to you know,

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Speaker 3: like rewind, like, how do we start from a good

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Speaker 3: point in these circumstances?

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Speaker 1: Uh?

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Speaker 3: And I always tell people like, if you're dating somebody,

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Speaker 3: take a look at how they treat their worst enemy.

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Speaker 3: Take a look at how they treat someone who makes

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Speaker 3: them mad.

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Speaker 4: How do they react.

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Speaker 3: Are they the type of person that's going to chase

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Speaker 3: down somebody in a road race situation and go to

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Speaker 3: kick their windshield in? I mean, is this the sort

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Speaker 3: of person because you want to prepare for what is

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Speaker 3: this person going to be like in the worst possible circumstance.

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Speaker 2: That is such great advice.

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Speaker 1: That is amazing because I remember even with my ex,

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Speaker 1: like I loved him so much, and I saw how

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Speaker 1: he treated people when they did him wrong or he

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Speaker 1: was unhappy and it wasn't good. You know, his first

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Speaker 1: thought was like I want to sue you. I want

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Speaker 1: to get revenge. And I never thought of it like

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Speaker 1: I could one day be that person.

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Speaker 3: You could one day be on the other end of it.

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Speaker 3: So I'll give you a perfect, perfect example in my life.

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Speaker 3: They're a handful of people's people in a circumstance that

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Speaker 3: I dealt with recently who went far out of their

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Speaker 3: way to do wrong to me and wrong to my kid. Right,

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Speaker 3: But now I see them on a regular basis, and

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Speaker 3: I say Am I gonna harbor animosity towards this person.

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Speaker 3: Am I gonna dedicate energy to go after this person?

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Speaker 3: Or am I gonna say, you know what, what's in

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Speaker 3: the past is in the past. It's over and done with.

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Speaker 3: If they're nice to me, I'm gonna be nice to them,

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Speaker 3: you know. And that's why, like I always say, like,

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Speaker 3: if there were ever a circumstance where I were to

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Speaker 3: split from my wife and we've been happily married for years,

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Speaker 3: I would never go out of my way to try

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Speaker 3: to take something from her that was hers, or try

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Speaker 3: to or try to just get back at her just

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Speaker 3: for petty, you know, anger sort of things. And I

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Speaker 3: think that speaks to people's character. It really does. So

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Speaker 3: while you know, yes, it's true that people change over time,

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Speaker 3: and yes, the divorce process does get people to an

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Speaker 3: ugly place. And yes, you know, in the divorce process

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Speaker 3: most people are what they've always say is like two

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Speaker 3: or three degrees away from their normal base line personality

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Speaker 3: because such a stressful event. Yes, all those things are true,

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Speaker 3: but you know, good people are gonna be good people

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Speaker 3: at their core.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, and that is I think one of the best

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Speaker 1: advices I've ever heard because it happened to me, and

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Speaker 1: you know in the beginning, you just don't think like that.

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Speaker 1: And I feel like looking at it first, like worse

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Speaker 1: comes to worse, what's going to happen?

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Speaker 2: I think that's actually the best approach.

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Speaker 1: How do you feel about people staying in marriages when

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Speaker 1: they are unhappy and they have children?

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Speaker 3: Well, I love that. Feel like you're modeling it. And

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Speaker 3: I'll give you an example. Or watch the video on

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Speaker 3: TikTok the other day, right, and they were talking about

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Speaker 3: father's raising daughters, and they said, one of the best

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Speaker 3: things you can do if you're a father raising a

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Speaker 3: daughter is to treat her mother well because you are

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Speaker 3: teaching her how she can expect to be treated by

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Speaker 3: a partner when she gets older. What can she expect

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Speaker 3: from her partner? Can she expect to be ridiculed? Can

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Speaker 3: she expect to be you know, built up? Can you

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Speaker 3: Can she expect somebody who's going to encourage her and

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Speaker 3: motivate her and inspire her or can she expect that

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Speaker 3: it's going to be the other direction? So I think

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Speaker 3: if you're in a relationship where your partner and I

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Speaker 3: think this especially goes for women and fathers and daughters,

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Speaker 3: because particularly it's something close to my heart because I

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Speaker 3: have a daughter right and I always am mindful of

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Speaker 3: trying to treat her mother well. Just keep in mind,

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Speaker 3: if you're in a relationship where your husband is treating

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Speaker 3: you poorly and your daughter is watching that happen over

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Speaker 3: and over again, you are modeling what she can believe

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Speaker 3: she can expect from another from her partner as she

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Speaker 3: gets older.

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Speaker 4: So yes, I.

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Speaker 3: Believe if you're in a situation where you know it's

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Speaker 3: toxic or worse she had its abuse, or it's a

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Speaker 3: situation where you're just gonna never get to the next step,

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Speaker 3: the next page in your life leading to happiness in

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Speaker 3: your life, you need to get out of it.

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Speaker 1: I'm very happy you said that because my life coach

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Speaker 1: actually told me that, and that's how I opened up

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Speaker 1: my eyes because I never saw it that way. I

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Speaker 1: didn't realize, like, my daughter is going to watch how

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Speaker 1: a man treats me. And he had asked me like,

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Speaker 1: would you want a man to treat your daughter that way?

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Speaker 3: And listen, just let that statement lie for a little

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Speaker 3: for a few minutes. I mean, listeners need to really

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Speaker 3: take that to heart. Would you want a man to

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Speaker 3: treat your daughter that way.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think I've gotten a lot of criticism that,

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Speaker 1: you know, thinking the old school way, like no matter what,

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Speaker 1: even if you're unhappy, you stay in the marriage. And

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Speaker 1: I think it's the complete opposite.

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Speaker 3: It is it is, And I think the toxicity for

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Speaker 3: kids they soak up.

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Speaker 4: Give another piece of information.

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Speaker 3: A lot of the divorces that I get where women

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Speaker 3: come forward and they say, hey, it's it's time for

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Speaker 3: me to pull the trigger and say and you know

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Speaker 3: what they say was the was the proverbial last straw.

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Speaker 3: Their kid said something to them. Their kid said, Mom,

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Speaker 3: it's it's time. Mom, it's you can't keep putting up

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Speaker 3: with this. Kids know when they're and they're soaking it

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Speaker 3: up like sponges. We think that, you know, oh they're

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Speaker 3: they're in their bedroom and they're sleeping, or they're hiding

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Speaker 3: around the court.

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Speaker 4: Listen, my daughter will.

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Speaker 1: They're always listening. That is something I learned. Even with

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Speaker 1: my four year old daughter. It's like, oh, yeah, they

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Speaker 1: have double ears.

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Speaker 4: The ears, the walls have ears, for sure. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 4: we've all had those. Middle of the night. My daughter

386
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Speaker 4: will and she's like listen, she's like a cat.

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Speaker 3: Burglar in the middle of the night, I'll she'll just

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Speaker 3: her head will pop out from behind the date bed

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Speaker 3: in our bedroom and there she is.

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Speaker 4: I didn't even hear it come in.

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Speaker 2: These kids are smart nowadays.

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Speaker 4: They are.

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Speaker 1: So as an expert in your field, can you spot

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Speaker 1: a couple who's doomed before they even know it?

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Speaker 3: Ooh yeah, yeah, I can spot the signs. I mean again,

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Speaker 3: and I think, you know, I hate to keep coming

397
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Speaker 3: back to this, but I think, especially for women, you know,

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Speaker 3: one of the good one indicator for me is like,

399
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Speaker 3: and I was thinking this as we were talking earlier, like,

400
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Speaker 3: are you with a partner who would be comfortable when

401
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Speaker 3: you're in the spotlight and there in the shadows?

402
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Speaker 2: M good way?

403
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Speaker 3: They always need to be like, well, I'm in the

404
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Speaker 3: spotlight and you're back here?

405
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Speaker 4: Is that the dynamic there?

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Speaker 1: You know?

407
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Speaker 3: And there are times where and that was one of

408
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Speaker 3: the other pieces from that video that I watched, like,

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Speaker 3: you know, there are times where you know you need

410
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Speaker 3: to be in the lead. They need to be building

411
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Speaker 3: you up, they need to be supporting you, they need

412
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Speaker 3: to be behind you, and then you do the same

413
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Speaker 3: for them. But it can never be a circumstance where

414
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Speaker 3: they're trying to take away from you. You know, I've

415
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Speaker 3: seen those relationships like you're out of you know, cocktail

416
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Speaker 3: or whatever, you know, you know, like Harry and Harry

417
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Speaker 3: and Sally go to the party and like, you know, yeah,

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Speaker 3: oh you know Sally never you know, she's she's not

419
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Speaker 3: very smart, she doesn't know yo.

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Speaker 4: She'd never lit, are you kidding?

421
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Speaker 3: You hear stuff like that, Like if you talk to me,

422
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Speaker 3: either in my wife's presence or outside of her presence,

423
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Speaker 3: you will hear me talk about her like she's a

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Speaker 3: fucking rock star. Excuse my friends, because she is. That's

425
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Speaker 3: but right, I'm inspired by her, I'm motivated by her,

426
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Speaker 3: and sometimes I look at her, I'm like, shit, I

427
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Speaker 3: gotta I really got to pick up my game, man,

428
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Speaker 3: this lady's killing it.

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Speaker 4: And and you know, but that's what it's supposed to be.

430
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Speaker 3: So when you see a dynamic where that's not present,

431
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Speaker 3: or it's like, you know, I'm picking up this for

432
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Speaker 3: him or I'm doing that for him, and like, yes,

433
00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:50,320
Speaker 3: you're going to do it for each other. But if

434
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Speaker 3: it's not a give and take, if it's not a

435
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Speaker 3: two way street, then you got to question what you're doing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and that will always change throughout life. There's always

437
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Speaker 1: going to be one person.

438
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Speaker 2: That achieves more, does more, and it's the cycle of life.

439
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Speaker 1: It's and so being there for one another, having that

440
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:11,200
Speaker 1: partnership is so important. And you know marriage is supposed

441
00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:13,840
Speaker 1: to be many many years, so it's like there'll be

442
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:18,160
Speaker 1: ups and downs, but supporting on one another is crucial.

443
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:20,359
Speaker 4: It's one hundred percent. And it's funny.

444
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:22,560
Speaker 3: I was watching a video that I consume a lot

445
00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:24,800
Speaker 3: of social media content, not just to get ideas for

446
00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:27,800
Speaker 3: my own stuff, but but just because I love the area.

447
00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:32,560
Speaker 3: But they said there's three things your spouse should be doing.

448
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:36,119
Speaker 3: They should either be motivating you and inspiring you to

449
00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,280
Speaker 3: be the best you you can be and be like

450
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:42,600
Speaker 3: your cheerleader. Or they should be helping support you. Or

451
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,080
Speaker 3: they should be getting the hell out of your way.

452
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:48,880
Speaker 3: And I somewhat disagree with the last one. But they

453
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:52,680
Speaker 3: can't be bringing you down, they can't be holding you back. Now,

454
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:56,040
Speaker 3: I think it's it's cheerleader or motivating and supporting you.

455
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:58,240
Speaker 3: I don't even think it should be a neutral. I

456
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:00,440
Speaker 3: don't even think they should be sitting in a situation

457
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:02,080
Speaker 3: where they're just staying out of your way. I think

458
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 3: they should be behind you the whole way, all of it,

459
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:07,560
Speaker 3: and it definitely should never be where they're holding you

460
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:09,040
Speaker 3: back or discouraging you.

461
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:13,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, the end of my first season, I remember not

462
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,560
Speaker 1: to go too much into detail, but I was having

463
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 1: brunch with my ex and my daughter and we had

464
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:23,679
Speaker 1: just finished a whole season, and out of nowhere, he

465
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:26,159
Speaker 1: just kind of kept saying, like, you should thank me

466
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:29,440
Speaker 1: that I put you on TV, and kind of bringing

467
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,840
Speaker 1: me down. And that was another moment that I opened

468
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:35,400
Speaker 1: up my eyes. I'm like, you're supposed to be my husband,

469
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:39,119
Speaker 1: my partner, thank you, Like this is something we did together,

470
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:42,600
Speaker 1: Like we should be celebrating together. You shouldn't try to

471
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:45,760
Speaker 1: pull me down. And I felt like that's what kept

472
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 1: happening to me.

473
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,760
Speaker 2: It was always about him and never about.

474
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:53,240
Speaker 1: Me and diminishing me, and that is what broke me

475
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:55,480
Speaker 1: down at the very end, and I was like, what

476
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:56,240
Speaker 1: am I doing?

477
00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:58,919
Speaker 2: My worth is like I don't deserve this.

478
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:02,280
Speaker 1: I don't deserve to have somebody treat and talk to

479
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 1: me like that.

480
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, one hundred percent.

481
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:07,280
Speaker 3: I mean they have to be a situation where they're

482
00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 3: giving you the credit that you deserve. And again we

483
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 3: come back to the situation I was talking about earlier.

484
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 3: You have to be in situations where they are comfortable

485
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:20,360
Speaker 3: giving you there and a lot of it, I think

486
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:21,000
Speaker 3: is ego.

487
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:22,479
Speaker 4: It's like, oh, it's got to be me. It's got

488
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:22,720
Speaker 4: to be me.

489
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 3: It's always got it's always got to be all about me.

490
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,199
Speaker 3: That's fine. I love ego to the extent that it

491
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,159
Speaker 3: means that you're confident and that you're you're driven to

492
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,440
Speaker 3: get ahead. But you got to check that damn ego

493
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 3: and support your partner, you know, and you got to

494
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:39,679
Speaker 3: let them know how much you appreciate them.

495
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:40,200
Speaker 4: It's funny.

496
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:43,639
Speaker 3: I was watching an interview the other day about from

497
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 3: u Selena Gomez and Bennie Blanco and they were talking

498
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 3: about their relations.

499
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 2: I've seen that so many times.

500
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 4: Oh my god, I love it so much. He supports

501
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:52,440
Speaker 4: her so much. I love it.

502
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 1: And I think that's why people love it, because men

503
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:58,639
Speaker 1: don't support women as much as they should.

504
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and that and let me tell you so

505
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 3: here's so here's what's so funny about that. You know,

506
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 3: you'll you'll hear from like the guys on my social media's.

507
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 4: Oh that's a SIMP. That is a BS.

508
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 3: That is the most confident man, the man who does

509
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 3: not feel challenged by the fact that his woman is

510
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:20,520
Speaker 3: his wife.

511
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:22,440
Speaker 4: His partner is just amazing.

512
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:24,640
Speaker 3: As a matter of fact, they should feel complimented by

513
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 3: it and support them in every way they can.

514
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 4: That's why I love those videos, those clips of that.

515
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 4: I love it so much.

516
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,480
Speaker 1: Me too, And you can see that she appreciates that

517
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,919
Speaker 1: and she loves him that much more because she has

518
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 1: such a supportive partner.

519
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:43,159
Speaker 3: And he is not challenged one iota buy it, and

520
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 3: neither is she. And that's what makes for the great partnership.

521
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 3: And great partnerships are what they're really at its core,

522
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 3: what great marriages are about.

523
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm curious for myself, Like, do you see now

524
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 1: more women asking for the divorce and filing first?

525
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, the percentages have always been higher for women. It's

526
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 3: roughly about sixty five or so percent filed by women.

527
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 3: But I think, you know, there's good reason for that.

528
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,920
Speaker 3: But I think the funny part about it is people think,

529
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 3: because of those statistics, and I think mainly men think

530
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,879
Speaker 3: because of those statistics that women are just like, oh uh,

531
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:23,680
Speaker 3: this guy doesn't work.

532
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 4: I want a divorce.

533
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 3: That is not the way it works.

534
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 4: On average.

535
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 3: Women spend years painstakingly, you know, trying to restore the

536
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 3: merits or relationship and send signals and communicate and like

537
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 3: and end up in a situation. And that's why when

538
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 3: you get to the divorce process, many women have been like,

539
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 3: you know, like like the situation we were talking about earlier,

540
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:54,160
Speaker 3: just like feeling like, you know, they did all these

541
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,440
Speaker 3: things and they get no credit and there's no support,

542
00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 3: and they're like mentally and emotionally, it's about getting past that,

543
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 3: getting to that next level. That's why the mental and

544
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 3: emotional peace is so important at the outset of the

545
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:09,680
Speaker 3: divorce situation, because you know, the ladies have really spent

546
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:12,919
Speaker 3: a long time pining over this decision, and it's one

547
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 3: of the toughest decisions they have to make.

548
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:17,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't imagine a woman just wakes up one

549
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 1: day it's like, Okay, I want to file for divorce.

550
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,920
Speaker 2: No, of course not. It takes so long.

551
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 3: It does, And I think women really internalize it in

552
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 3: my experience that they feel a sense of shame, they

553
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 3: feel a sense of failure, they feel a sense of

554
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 3: like like it's like it's their fault in a way,

555
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 3: and in as part of the process, you know, one

556
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 3: of the most important things you could do is like

557
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,159
Speaker 3: unpack all of that. You don't get through all of

558
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 3: that because clearly it's not your fault and manute and

559
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 3: in many cases it's very small percentage your fault, if

560
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:57,400
Speaker 3: at all.

561
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 1: So I did think it was my fault because I

562
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,879
Speaker 1: was the person who made the final decision. But now

563
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 1: with therapy, I've learned that no, it's I just did

564
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 1: the right thing, and I did the right thing for

565
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 1: myself and for my daughter.

566
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think the funny part about it is

567
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 3: that usually the people on the other side of those

568
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 3: circumstances will use every clever trick that they can to

569
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 3: keep your self esteem, you know, and keep your motivation

570
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 3: to get to the next level down right. They'll say, like,

571
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 3: you know, perfect sample, which is like until what you

572
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 3: were talking about earlier. They'll say like, well, you'll never

573
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:34,640
Speaker 3: find anybody who will love you as much as I do. Well,

574
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 3: how does that devalue that person?

575
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 1: Oh?

576
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 3: Well, they're only you know, how could they possibly find

577
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 3: somebody as great as this other person to love.

578
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 4: Them like they love them?

579
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 3: Well, no, they're worth that and so much more. And

580
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 3: that's why again, like that Benny Blanco thing, like I

581
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 3: tell her I love her every day and she gets

582
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 3: tired of it, and I you know, explained to you know,

583
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:57,720
Speaker 3: talk to her about how great she is and where

584
00:28:57,840 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 3: you know, as guys, we're not great at that.

585
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 4: You know.

586
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 3: I think it takes effort, It takes work. But you know,

587
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 3: for any guys that are listening, say, if you are

588
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 3: with a great lady, go home and tell her today

589
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 3: you're fucking awesome, man, Like I am so.

590
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 2: Lucky to be And how easy is that?

591
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 1: How easy is it to give an affirmation, to give

592
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 1: a compliment, to just be like, hey, you're amazing.

593
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 2: I think that's all women really want.

594
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I think I think just people in general

595
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 3: want to feel appreciated, and I think especially for women,

596
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 3: especially for the ones who are really killing it, who

597
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 3: are doing it all, which which comprises a large majority

598
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 3: of the women that we represent. They're doing everything, they're

599
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 3: with the kids, they're with businesses, they're making the money,

600
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 3: they're taking care of, doing all these things. And then like, well,

601
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:44,960
Speaker 3: you didn't do this for me, or you didn't You'll

602
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 3: never find anybody else who are going to love you

603
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 3: like I do im.

604
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 4: I was like, whoa.

605
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 2: Wait a second, Well show.

606
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 4: You right right.

607
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm looking in from the outside saying this,

608
00:29:54,080 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 3: This lady's way out of your class, dude.

609
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 2: A couple more things I wanted to ask.

610
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 1: So I was having a dinner with my girlfriend who's

611
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 1: also getting divorced, and so something she said to me

612
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 1: that I had never even thought of. She was like,

613
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 1: you know, when you're in the divorce and you're in

614
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 1: a room or in the house with the ex, you know,

615
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 1: an argument can get heated and you can start screaming.

616
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 1: And she actually knows a lot of people who call

617
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 1: nine one one or gets arrested, and it was kind

618
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 1: of a joke, but she was like, no, this is

619
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 1: actually very important because nobody talks. She's like, if I

620
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 1: would have known, I wouldn't have dialed nine one one.

621
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 1: But you're just in the heat of the moment, Like,

622
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 1: what what do you suggest when you are in a

623
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 1: room and you know you're just arguing and it just

624
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 1: gets heated.

625
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 4: You know.

626
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 3: I always try to counsel clients to keep things as

627
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 3: vanilla as is possible. I think it starts from a

628
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 3: situation where again the same. You have to remember that

629
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 3: the same dynamic throughout that developed throughout your marriage. The

630
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 3: other party, especially if it's a toxic relationship, is going

631
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 3: to think post divorce, business as usual. I'm gonna talk

632
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 3: to you the way I used to talk to you.

633
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 3: I'm gonna treat you the way I used to treat you,

634
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 3: and for many it's poorly And I think the shift

635
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 3: is to realize you don't need to tolerate that. You

636
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:29,920
Speaker 3: don't need to listen to that. If they're gonna raise

637
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 3: their voice, or they're gonna curse, or they're gonna do

638
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 3: or they're gonna direct any communications towards you that have

639
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 3: no useful, reasonable purpose, like talking about what the pickup

640
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 3: and drop off is gonna be for the kids, or

641
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 3: talking about how you're gonna you know, how you're gonna

642
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 3: filew your taxes, walk out the door, goodbye. Absolutely, phone call,

643
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 3: phone call, click. I don't need to tolerate that anymore.

644
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 3: I'm not your whipping post. Okay, I'm not gonna be

645
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 3: bullied and I don't need to listen to this garbage.

646
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 4: Now.

647
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 3: Obviously you do that in consultation with your lawyer, because

648
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 3: sometimes you want to be strategic about that because a

649
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 3: lot of times they'll surreptitiously try to like draw you in. Well,

650
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 3: I'm going to try to push their buttons until they

651
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 3: get aggravated, and then I'm going to go to the

652
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 3: judge and say, well, they wouldn't talk to me about

653
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 3: the kids.

654
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, because would that affect the custody agreement or does

655
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 1: that affect it?

656
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 4: Can? It can?

657
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 3: But I think it's it's important to draw that line.

658
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 3: It's important to know that that raising the voice foul

659
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 3: language any level of abuse. I mean certainly anything physical

660
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 3: should does not and should not be tolerated. And I think,

661
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 3: you know, I have to be cautious when we're in

662
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 3: this space because if you're in a situation where there's

663
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 3: been physical violence, or there's been any level of domestic

664
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 3: violence in the past, absolutely one call the police. Your

665
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 3: safety is the most important thing, and everything follows from that,

666
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 3: your physical and then mental and emotional safety, physical safety,

667
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:12,239
Speaker 3: police right lawyer, prosecution, those sorts of things. You know,

668
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 3: the hotline you can always reach out to if you

669
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 3: need to find a way to get safely out of

670
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 3: a domestic violence relationship. You can just google hashtag the hotline.

671
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 4: But other than.

672
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 3: Immediate safety safety plan police. If it's just verbal and

673
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 3: there's no domestic violence, you don't have to tolerate it.

674
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 1: And as easy as that sounds, that is so hard

675
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 1: in the moment. It is you want to go that

676
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:40,480
Speaker 1: back and forth and prove your point, and you.

677
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 4: Know do you do?

678
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 3: But I think what is that doing to you? If

679
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 3: you do that, it's eating you up. And that's why

680
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 3: let's back up a little bit. I want you to

681
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 3: unpack all of the proverbial shit you dealt with in

682
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 3: that relationship throughout. Unpack that in a therapist's office and

683
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 3: deal with it. Okay, I know, you know, and I

684
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,719
Speaker 3: think people don't appreciate how much there is to deal

685
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:12,759
Speaker 3: with prior to the divorce process. Because once you get

686
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,879
Speaker 3: your arms around that and work with your counselor your

687
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 3: therapists to develop mechanisms to deal with this person on

688
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 3: the other side of your situation, you will be in

689
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 3: a healthy space to say, I'm going to take this.

690
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 3: I don't need to prove any point to them, I

691
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:30,360
Speaker 3: don't need to answer to them in any way. There's

692
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 3: no remnant of the broken relationship that I need to

693
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 3: air my grievances with them.

694
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 4: I'm done with them.

695
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 3: The best thing you can do for yourself and to

696
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 3: prove anything to them is to walk out the door.

697
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 1: That's my philosophy now, and it took me some time

698
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:46,759
Speaker 1: to learn. I was like, I don't need to deal

699
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 1: with this. I don't have to hear it.

700
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:52,359
Speaker 2: I have a lawyer email done one hundred percent, thank you.

701
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 1: And then I want to ask two questions that I

702
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 1: get asked often. I think I know the answers to this,

703
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 1: but a lot of women don't. You know a lot

704
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 1: of people have a lot of women have beautiful, big

705
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,279
Speaker 1: engagement rings and they're like, what do I do? Do

706
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 1: I give it back to them? And I said that

707
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:12,320
Speaker 1: it's a gift. That's what I was told. Is that correct?

708
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 4: It depends on your state. So let's put it this way.

709
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:19,359
Speaker 3: I'm a New York state divorce lawyer. So typically the

710
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,279
Speaker 3: engagement ring is a gift and it's you know, and

711
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 3: it's dealt with in that way through the through the

712
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:27,760
Speaker 3: divorce process. But I think I would be cautious about

713
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,760
Speaker 3: it and talk with your lawyer about your state's laws,

714
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,839
Speaker 3: because remember, divorce laws will vary from state to state.

715
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 1: Okay, and these are conversations you really need to have

716
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 1: before you get married, like how can you get married

717
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:42,279
Speaker 1: to somebody spend the rest of your life with them,

718
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:44,719
Speaker 1: but don't know their financial situation?

719
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 3: Let that lie for a little bit, because I'll tell

720
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 3: you that is a piece of very valuable sound advice.

721
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:54,880
Speaker 3: And not just understand how important what you just said is.

722
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 3: It's not just about the divorce process, but it's just

723
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 3: as much about building a relationship that will last. It

724
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 3: starts with transparency. Know how that person's going to react

725
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:11,759
Speaker 3: in the worst possible circumstance.

726
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 4: Know how they make their money.

727
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,800
Speaker 3: Know what their debts are, Like, what are their assets

728
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 3: if we were divorce, what do you expect from me? Well,

729
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 3: I want you to be a stay at home mom,

730
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:23,880
Speaker 3: but I don't want to give you any assets if

731
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 3: we divorce. We'll wait a second. If I'm helping you

732
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:30,080
Speaker 3: build all this money and then you want to just

733
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:33,840
Speaker 3: walk out the door that your so again, I think

734
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 3: the prenup is a way, like you said, to have

735
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:39,920
Speaker 3: transparency from the outset.

736
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 4: Know all of these things.

737
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 1: Okay, And what is it called the post Once you're

738
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 1: already married.

739
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:49,720
Speaker 3: There's a post nup. So in post nups, it's funny,

740
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 3: there's a there so. So in New York State, we

741
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:56,360
Speaker 3: do divorce agreements, which is generally a written contract and

742
00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 3: agreement that provides for every possible issue that would come

743
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 3: up in the context of your divorce case. You can

744
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 3: do it prior to the marriage it's called a prenup.

745
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:08,720
Speaker 3: You can do it post the marriage, and during the marriage,

746
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 3: which is called a post up. And then if you're

747
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 3: doing it in anticipation of a divorce, it's typically called

748
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:17,319
Speaker 3: a separation agreement. And then in the context of your

749
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 3: divorce case, the written contract that settles all the issues

750
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 3: if you reach an amicable agreement between the two parties,

751
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:26,880
Speaker 3: is basically called a divorce settlement agreement. All four of

752
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 3: these agreements need to meet the same standards under the

753
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 3: New York State divorce law, very similar in sum and substance.

754
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 3: So pren up, yes, transparency, do it early. Post up

755
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 3: is a situation where if your marriage is on the

756
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:44,239
Speaker 3: rocks but you're trying to work on it, and you say, hey,

757
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:46,320
Speaker 3: we're going to jump in with both feet to counseling,

758
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:50,760
Speaker 3: but just to prepare in advance if the worst does happen.

759
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 3: If this counseling fails and the relationship and we're unable

760
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 3: to restore the marriage a relationship we want to while

761
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 3: we're thinking clearly and while we're not at loggerheads with

762
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 3: each other, you know, sort out what would happen in

763
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 3: the event of a divorce, and in those sorts of

764
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 3: circumstances you do the post numb.

765
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:09,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the best time to do it.

766
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:12,880
Speaker 1: And I wish I was told and I knew about that,

767
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:15,240
Speaker 1: because I would have done it when I was first

768
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:17,879
Speaker 1: thinking about it, and that would have saved so much

769
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:20,719
Speaker 1: time and a headache. And I think it would just

770
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:23,880
Speaker 1: it would have made the process much easier. So I

771
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 1: think it's important to know about that, even when you

772
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 1: are married, you can still have a post.

773
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 4: Not it is one hundred percent.

774
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 3: And like I said, I think there are so many

775
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:36,840
Speaker 3: emotions and the average divorce case, there are so many

776
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:41,280
Speaker 3: emotions swirling in the context of a divorce case because

777
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 3: think of it, every aspect of your life is going

778
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:47,479
Speaker 3: to change. And in addition to the fact that many

779
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 3: people still harbor, you know, remaining remnants of the broken

780
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:53,399
Speaker 3: relationship that they need to that they've kind of feel

781
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:55,360
Speaker 3: like they need to get back at the other side on.

782
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 3: And in addition to those things that are kind of

783
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:00,680
Speaker 3: swirling around, you also have a SITCHI and that where

784
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:03,279
Speaker 3: your entire life is being turned upside down. So in

785
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 3: the context of that, we expect you, as divorce lawyers,

786
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:09,080
Speaker 3: like hey, think clearly and be reasonable and try to

787
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 3: plan for you know, when we settle this divorce case,

788
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:13,719
Speaker 3: what your life is going to look like five or

789
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 3: ten years from now. People are thinking like, I don't

790
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:17,759
Speaker 3: even know what I'm having for breakfast tomorrow. Well, I'm

791
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 3: gonna be living six months from now. How how can

792
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:22,600
Speaker 3: I think clearly about that? So again, I think when

793
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:26,280
Speaker 3: you're outside of the divorce process, when there's not that pressure,

794
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:30,320
Speaker 3: do the post note just in case. It's the most

795
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:32,399
Speaker 3: cost effective thing you can do, and it will save

796
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:36,400
Speaker 3: you months, years, tens of thousands of dollars and a

797
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 3: whole lot of aggravation and anxiety in the divorce process.

798
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:44,919
Speaker 2: What a life lesson. Well, thank you. I'm so happy.

799
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 1: I hope this was very helpful for others because it

800
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:50,719
Speaker 1: is to me and I'm still learning even being in

801
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 1: the middle of it, Like I learn every single day,

802
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I wish I knew that before and

803
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:57,720
Speaker 1: I wish there were, you know, I saw little clips

804
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:00,080
Speaker 1: on tiktoks. I would see you all the time, and

805
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:03,880
Speaker 1: that little guidance here and there can make such a

806
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 1: big difference.

807
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 3: So thank you, Thank you so much, Michelle, and listen,

808
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 3: I want to I want you to appreciate and understand

809
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:14,839
Speaker 3: how valuable what you're doing is, because people who are

810
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 3: going through it right now what I tell them on

811
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:21,279
Speaker 3: a regular basis, consume as much free content as you

812
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:23,920
Speaker 3: can about the process and what happens.

813
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 4: And it's a magical thing when people gain.

814
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:28,440
Speaker 3: So when you go into the divorce process, there's a

815
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 3: whole bunch of unknowns, and the anxiety comes from the unknowns.

816
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 3: As you go through it and share what you've dealt

817
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:39,279
Speaker 3: with and share your insights, you're making some of the

818
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:43,319
Speaker 3: knowns or the unknowns for people knowns, or at least

819
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:45,759
Speaker 3: they have an idea on what they can expect, and

820
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 3: that information brings down their anxiety and gives them calm.

821
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 3: And calm is what people need more than anything else when.

822
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:56,719
Speaker 4: They're going through the divorce process. So thank you for

823
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:57,839
Speaker 4: what you do. Keep doing it.

824
00:40:58,200 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 2: Thank you.

825
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 1: And I've also never been anxious person, and it's the

826
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 1: first time that. There are times I'm reviewing emails, I'm like,

827
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 1: I have anxiety, Like anxiety is a real thing.

828
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 4: And you can feel it in your chest.

829
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:15,719
Speaker 1: It's like yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure, I'm starting to

830
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:19,239
Speaker 1: breathe better and good. I'm still in the middle of it,

831
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:21,800
Speaker 1: but hopefully one day that will be in the past

832
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 1: and I can move to the future. And lastly, I think,

833
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 1: you know, when people get divorced, what is that rate

834
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 1: of redivorce? Because I still believe in marriage. I still

835
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:35,720
Speaker 1: want to get married in the future one day.

836
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:37,240
Speaker 4: I think.

837
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 3: I think the one statistic we haven't come up with

838
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 3: is what's the divorce rate for remarriage for people who

839
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:49,319
Speaker 3: take the time to heal, who take the time to

840
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:51,280
Speaker 3: unpack the baggage left.

841
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 4: Over from their first marriage.

842
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 3: I think we don't really have a reliable statistic on

843
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 3: that yet, but I think ultimately someday we will. The

844
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:01,400
Speaker 3: second marriage rate is higher than the first marriage, right,

845
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:03,960
Speaker 3: and it goes up from there. So first marriage little

846
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:06,840
Speaker 3: over fifty percent, second marriage a little over sixty percent,

847
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 3: third marriage like seventy something percent. It's and it's in

848
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 3: large part because when people lead their first marriage 're

849
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:15,320
Speaker 3: going into a second or a third one to fill

850
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 3: a void, and they shouldn't be trying to fill the

851
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 3: void with another person. They should be trying to fill

852
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:26,719
Speaker 3: the void with their new sense of self. Yeah, and

853
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:29,879
Speaker 3: I think if you unpack everything from your first relationship,

854
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 3: work on being the best you you can be, you'll

855
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:36,439
Speaker 3: be in a situation where that void is filled by

856
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:37,319
Speaker 3: a greater.

857
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:40,240
Speaker 4: You, and then you will attract the right partner.

858
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:42,759
Speaker 3: And those marriages, I think are the ones that are

859
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:43,320
Speaker 3: going to last.

860
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:47,160
Speaker 1: Perfectly said, all right, having to thank you, good to

861
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 1: talk with you, Michelle, have a great take you too

862
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 1: if they care. Bye.