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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.

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Speaker 2: This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. I'm Jonathan Ferrow, along

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Speaker 2: with Lisa Bromwitz and Amrie Hordern join us each day

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Speaker 2: for insight from the best in markets, economics, and geopolitics

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Speaker 2: from our global headquarters in New York City. We are

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Speaker 2: live on Bloomberg Television weekday mornings from six to nine

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Speaker 2: am Eastern. Subscribe to the podcast on Apple, Spotify or

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Speaker 2: anywhere else you listen, and as always on the Bloomberg

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Speaker 2: Terminal and the Bloomberg Business app. We begin this hour

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Speaker 2: with stocks at all time highs following seven straight days

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Speaker 2: of games. John Stolfus of Oppenheimer remaining positive on equities

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Speaker 2: and saying, quote, the broad rotation which began in the

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Speaker 2: rally from last year's s and P five hundred low

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Speaker 2: on October twenty seven, twenty twenty three, has repeatedly deflective volatility.

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Speaker 2: John joined us now for more. John, Good morning, Laury

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Speaker 2: once again yesterday deflecting volatility with that just another day

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Speaker 2: support for you.

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Speaker 3: Well, it was another data point, but in a series

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Speaker 3: of data points that reflect the change in where we are.

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Speaker 3: In essence, what it is is people are beginning to

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Speaker 3: realize that this bull.

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Speaker 4: Market has legs.

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Speaker 3: There is a broadening that is undeniable in terms of

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Speaker 3: the way investors have responded to their appetite for equities.

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Speaker 3: I'd also say, you know, I think from a historical perspective,

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Speaker 3: a lot of times the market is perceived as a

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Speaker 3: place as a hotbed of fear and greed, but it

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Speaker 3: also represents need.

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Speaker 4: And the need is extraordinary.

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Speaker 3: These days in terms of people's planning, whether it's for

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Speaker 3: a kid's education, one's retirement in a world in which

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Speaker 3: social security may not be any much the part of

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Speaker 3: where it has been before.

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Speaker 2: These are big themes the next several years, and maybe

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Speaker 2: even the next several decades, forever our lifetime. I want

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Speaker 2: to deal with the last twenty four aspects and then

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Speaker 2: we can get to the bigger themes. Do you not

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Speaker 2: think the threat from Donald Trump president like is credible?

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Speaker 2: Does this market not belyve it's credible? Or is there

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Speaker 2: really something to take away from this to sit here

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Speaker 2: and say, actually, this equity market can handle it. It's

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Speaker 2: resilient enough.

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Speaker 3: A combination of the two in terms of the equity

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Speaker 3: market being able to handle it. But the important thing

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Speaker 3: is the market really cares ultimately about revenues and earnings,

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Speaker 3: So areas that will be damaged by an aggressive trade

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Speaker 3: policy with tariffs that.

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Speaker 4: Are extreme would be problematic.

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Speaker 3: That said, I think the market is recognizing that President

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Speaker 3: Trump is essentially known for a pretty wild negotiation procedures.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I always like to say when I speak

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Speaker 3: with investors that I can just imagine if you had

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Speaker 3: a property and this would be a small amount of

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Speaker 3: money in New York, but you knew was worth about

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Speaker 3: one hundred million, and you wanted to sell it to

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Speaker 3: Donald Trump. My guesstimate is he'd start up with I

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Speaker 3: think it's worth twenty million.

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Speaker 4: You know, he's a hard negotiator.

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Speaker 3: And I think the issues here that I think you

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Speaker 3: mentioned at the beginning, where you're talking about as they

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Speaker 3: put this the cabinet together, is that this is what

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Speaker 3: we're dealing with here are genuinely unfair trade situations for

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Speaker 3: the American worker essentially and for American businesses. And the

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Speaker 3: problem is how do you get to right size that

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Speaker 3: with so many countries really providing support to their businesses

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Speaker 3: very different than ours, where we have high regulation, we

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Speaker 3: have all.

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Speaker 4: Kinds of.

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Speaker 3: Our labor is much more expensive because we provide better

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Speaker 3: for our workers.

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Speaker 1: So it's fair to say that what you're basically indicating

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Speaker 1: is that this is a market that isn't taking it seriously,

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Speaker 1: that Trump is actually going to put through any of this,

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Speaker 1: and that's not what's getting priced into markets at all.

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Speaker 3: Well, I wouldn't say it's not being priced into markets

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Speaker 3: at all. The traders certainly reflected just as you mentioned,

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Speaker 3: one of the automakers yesterday got slammed. You know, when

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Speaker 3: you get to that kind of a thing, without a doubt,

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Speaker 3: there's volatility inherent in this procedure. But it's likely the

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Speaker 3: whole thing that the Trump ran on was essentially to

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Speaker 3: be beneficial for the US, and I think this is

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Speaker 3: these are four years that he's got and he's not

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Speaker 3: got four years after this in terms of running again,

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Speaker 3: So I think they're going to be very sensitive to it.

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Speaker 4: It should look there's going to be volatility. There always is.

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Speaker 3: There's always uncertainty, but if you've got to keep your

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Speaker 3: eye on the ball, and it looks like through innovation,

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Speaker 3: the process of where we are today and that the

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Speaker 3: US is the consumer of choice for every vendor in

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Speaker 3: the world, puts us into a fairly good position that

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Speaker 3: the negotiations may originally start out pretty painful to look at,

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Speaker 3: and then things actually work out remarkably better.

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Speaker 1: Some people are saying this is the fifth year of

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Speaker 1: his administration. Essentially it's a continuation of policies that had

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Speaker 1: been in place. There are a number of people who

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Speaker 1: begged to differ with that, saying this is a very

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Speaker 1: different circumstance economically than it was in twenty sixteen. Inflation

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Speaker 1: is more of a real risk, there's more momentum.

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Speaker 4: Companies are already in a good spot.

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Speaker 1: The deficit is a lot steeper, and people are worried

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Speaker 1: about bond heields. How much does that temper the ability

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Speaker 1: to really implement some of these policies. How much are

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Speaker 1: you watching the bond space to understand how bullish to

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Speaker 1: get in equity land?

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Speaker 3: Oh, we definitely watch the bond space because everything works

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Speaker 3: on credit, right, I mean, you know, it doesn't matter

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Speaker 3: if it's related to the consumer's credit card or what

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Speaker 3: businesses are doing in terms of their borrowing needs and

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Speaker 3: refinancings and m and a what have you. But what

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Speaker 3: we'd have to say is, I think, realistically, you know,

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Speaker 3: it's the end of free money, and it's a good thing,

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Speaker 3: and that bond issuers once again have to pay for

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Speaker 3: the privilege of borrowing money. Our projection on the ten

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Speaker 3: year yield is because of the stickiness that's inherent in inflation.

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Speaker 3: When you're coming out of a period like this, you're probably.

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Speaker 4: The range being priced to range.

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Speaker 3: It's yield somewhere between three point four percent to as

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Speaker 3: high as five. At five, everybody gets freaked out. Then

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Speaker 3: you get come down back to about four point two

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Speaker 3: where we are now. But historically, you know, it's go

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Speaker 3: back hundreds of years when it comes to ten year borrowing,

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Speaker 3: four percent tends to be about it, whether you're you're

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Speaker 3: borrowing for frankinsense and murr your you know, pepper corn

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Speaker 3: or whatever venice with you.

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Speaker 2: In the Nativity scene. Thanksgiving First, chant let's get some

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Speaker 2: price targets the next year or so. Morgus Stanley sixty

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Speaker 2: five hundred, BBC sixty six hundred, BEMOS sixty seven, Deutsche

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Speaker 2: Banks Binkie chat A seven K. Then know why you

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Speaker 2: think about that? I was talking about you yesterday. The

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Speaker 2: average forecast on the S and P for this year

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Speaker 2: was forty eight hundred. You were at the high fifty

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Speaker 2: two hundred, and he won't bullish enough. What's the lesson

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Speaker 2: a twenty twenty four men, before we get into twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty five, it's the lesson been for you, A real

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Speaker 2: good question.

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Speaker 4: It's the second second time you've asked me that question.

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Speaker 4: What's the lesson been in the year? And it's a

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Speaker 4: great question.

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Speaker 2: Last ye.

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Speaker 4: And we'd have we'd have to stay.

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Speaker 3: With this is you know, we started last year last

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Speaker 3: December we had fifty two hundred. By March we raised

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Speaker 3: it to fifty five. By July we went to fifty nine,

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Speaker 3: and most recently we went to sixty two hundred for

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Speaker 3: this year. The thing that concerns me the most at

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Speaker 3: this point is that that's what was The people that you.

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Speaker 4: Mentioned were a mix of bears and bulls who have

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Speaker 4: these high targets.

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Speaker 3: So everybody's on the same side of the boat, which

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Speaker 3: makes the market vulnerable to volatility that can come about

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Speaker 3: from any piece of economic data, corporate guidance, or anything.

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Speaker 3: The traders will jump on anything and they'll take it,

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Speaker 3: and they'll throw a perfectly good stock down like a

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Speaker 3: hot potato. Okay, meantime, it creates an opportunity for those

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Speaker 3: need investors who are investing intermediate to longer term or

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Speaker 3: for their goals and objectives to pick up babies that

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Speaker 3: get thrown out with the bathwater. So you have to

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Speaker 3: measure that our target won't come out.

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Speaker 4: Until mid December.

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Speaker 3: As usual, we wait until people have gotten pretty crazy

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Speaker 3: and take a look what happens. But we do have

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Speaker 3: to say it's rather disconcerting when you hear people throwing

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Speaker 3: around targets, you know, seven thousand. It sounds dramatic, but

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Speaker 3: when you actually put it to the calculator, the percentage

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Speaker 3: upside based on the innovation that exists, the ability for

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Speaker 3: companies to navigate tougher waters as a result of the

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Speaker 3: experience that.

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Speaker 4: Managers have learned from the Great.

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Speaker 3: Financial Crisis, the pandemic, the supply chain disruptions, and then

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Speaker 3: the balance sheets of the consumer. You know, it looks

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Speaker 3: like stocks could genuinely go quite a bit.

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Speaker 2: Seventy people think we can get double digitate cents next year.

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Speaker 2: We've talked about this is well. As human beings we

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Speaker 2: unconditioned to overweight downside risk. We can spend the whole

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Speaker 2: morning talking about downside risk. At LEASTA we'll no doubt

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Speaker 2: want to do that. What could go right in twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty five? What do you think could go right?

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Speaker 3: Well, I think among the things that you could go

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Speaker 3: right would be continued resilience in revenue and earnings growth

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Speaker 3: on a broad basis.

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Speaker 4: I mean, if you look at the EA page.

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Speaker 3: On a Bloomberg right now, you've got four sectors with

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Speaker 3: double digit returns. I think it's eight sectors with I'm sorry,

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Speaker 3: four sectors with double digit earnings growth. You have eight

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Speaker 3: with positive earnings growth, and you have three with negative

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Speaker 3: earnings growth. So the dispersion that you see in that

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Speaker 3: tells you that you know, it's real. There's things that

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Speaker 3: are really working, things that are somewhat working, and some

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Speaker 3: things that are and in that kind of an environment,

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Speaker 3: based on what we've seen, the big surprises could be

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Speaker 3: that resilience continues as an operative word in the markets,

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Speaker 3: and that perhaps apps that we see that when the

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Speaker 3: actual negotiations work out, that the countries involved will actually

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Speaker 3: come to terms more readily because of the importance of

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Speaker 3: the American consumer and American business.

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Speaker 1: You put that together with something that you said that

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Speaker 1: when there is a bad headline, the company has just

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Speaker 1: get dropped like a hot potato. I'm thinking of Target,

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Speaker 1: Best Buy, Dell, at HP yesterday when they came out

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Speaker 1: with weakers and expected earnings. What's your lens for knowing

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Speaker 1: when it's a good opportunity when you should actually.

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Speaker 4: Pick that up. Well, you know, when we look at companies.

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Speaker 3: One of the reason why I can't mention individual companies,

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Speaker 3: Oppenheimer doesn't like me to pitch my own stocks, right,

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Speaker 3: But when we look at the companies, what we're always

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Speaker 3: looking for it's the traditional It sounds a very easy

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Speaker 3: out to say this, but essentially is good balance sheets,

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Speaker 3: management that cares about their shareholders and their customers and

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Speaker 3: their employees, and good ideas that they're managing through and hopefully.

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Speaker 4: Some kind of an upgrade cycle. In technology.

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Speaker 3: The thing is, we're all on the upgrade cycle, whether

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Speaker 3: we like it or not.

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Speaker 4: Ultimately, I will have to upgrade both.

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Speaker 3: My fourteen my iPhone fourteen neither a recommendation to buy

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Speaker 3: or cell applestock, and I will also have to update

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Speaker 3: my success which.

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Speaker 2: I still can't.

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Speaker 4: I know, I know, which is is like an old

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Speaker 4: model tea.

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Speaker 5: It's like an advertisement.

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Speaker 2: John, We're thankful for your optimism. Thank you, sir, I

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Speaker 2: have a happy Thanksgiving with the family. Appreciate it same.

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Speaker 2: Do you good to see Thank you John stufforstre of Oppenheim,

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Speaker 2: a former New York Fed President Bill Dudley, wishing him

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Speaker 2: luck right in the following. Market's exuberant response to his

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Speaker 2: nomination certainly suggests this is what investors expects. Yeah, their

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Speaker 2: optimism contrasts sharply with the difficulties he'll encounter in managing

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Speaker 2: the treasury market, the country's fiscal trajectory, and the broader economy.

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Speaker 2: Bill joined just now for more. But welcome to the program, sir.

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Speaker 2: Let's get to those three points you make, managing the

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Speaker 2: treasury market, the fiscal trajectory, and the broader economy. Of

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Speaker 2: those three, Bill, what do you think is the biggest task?

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Speaker 6: Haally managing the fiscal deficits?

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Speaker 7: Since the Treasury Secretary doesn't have responsibility for text the

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Speaker 7: spending policy, you can opine on it, but can he

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Speaker 7: actually get it through Congress and get the administration to

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Speaker 7: support it?

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Speaker 6: So I think you know, we're on a trajectory.

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Speaker 7: Right now where it's six percent of GDP deficits as

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Speaker 7: far as the eye can see. And President let Trump

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Speaker 7: has proposed things that will expand the deficit as opposed

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Speaker 7: to contract the deficit.

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Speaker 6: So I think that the.

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Speaker 7: Fiscal OUTLOK longer term is probably the most challenging thing

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Speaker 7: that he faces.

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Speaker 2: But he gets some say on the maturity profile of

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Speaker 2: US treasuries. What's your take of what's developed under Secretary

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Speaker 2: Yeller at the Treasury and what changes would you anticipate

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Speaker 2: in the is to come under Beston?

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Speaker 7: Well, things didn't move a lot under Yell, and I

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Speaker 7: think the maturity structure shortened a little bit.

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Speaker 6: To Treasury typically doesn't want to.

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Speaker 7: Move around the Treasury issuance calendar a lot because it

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Speaker 7: basically unnerves market participants.

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Speaker 6: They regular and predictable is sort of the watchword of

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Speaker 6: the Treasury.

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Speaker 7: So I would be surprised if Best at todaything that

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Speaker 7: significantly changed the maturity structure of the Treasury debt. I

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Speaker 7: think the biggest problem the problem he faces is to

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Speaker 7: convince his colleagues in the administration that we need more

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Speaker 7: tax revenue, we need to control spending, and that requires,

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Speaker 7: you know, make some tip difficult choices.

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Speaker 1: Bill, if you were still on the Fed, how would

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Speaker 1: you think about some of the policies and the personnel

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Speaker 1: that have been implemented are now so far and factor

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Speaker 1: that into.

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Speaker 5: Your outlook for next year.

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Speaker 4: You have to come out with a forecast.

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Speaker 1: You've got to make a dot next month.

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Speaker 4: How do you even begin to do that?

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Speaker 7: Yeah, so far, the FED has been very silent about

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Speaker 7: President elect Trump. There is nothing, for example, in the

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Speaker 7: minutes about the election in the new policy mix. I think,

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Speaker 7: you know, to the extent that things get priced into

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Speaker 7: financial market is sort of hard for the FED to

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Speaker 7: then ignore them, because if you have prices bodying a

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Speaker 7: certain expectation, how do you not include those prices in

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Speaker 7: your forecast. Back in December twenty sixteen, the FED staff

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Speaker 7: put a big fiscal stimulus in their forecast for twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 7: So when Paula says, we don't assume, we don't speculate,

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Speaker 7: we don't guess. The reality is if the markets start

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Speaker 7: to judge that something is highly likely, then the FED

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Speaker 7: has to sort of take that.

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Speaker 6: On board in terms of their own thinking.

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Speaker 7: I think the biggest issue in the very short term

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Speaker 7: is what's going to happen to territs, because if tarofts

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Speaker 7: are raised to any close to the degree that the

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Speaker 7: President elect Trump is talking about it's going to be inflationary,

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Speaker 7: it's going to be bad for growth, it's going to

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Speaker 7: be bad for proactivity. And PRESIDENTLEC. Trump's talking about putting

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Speaker 7: on tarifts on China, Canada, Mexico, you know, on day one,

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Speaker 7: So that's probably the thing that's going to happen most quickly.

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Speaker 7: The fiscal stuff is going to take longer because the

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Speaker 7: tax cuts don't expire to the end of twenty twenty five,

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Speaker 7: so that's probably more of a twenty twenty sixth story.

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Speaker 1: You know, you said that tariffs are going to be inflationary.

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Speaker 1: We've heard some disagreement about that around this table. Some

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Speaker 1: people say that maybe in the very short term there's

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Speaker 1: a one time price increase, but longer term in tariffs

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Speaker 1: have been shown to be disinflationary time and again, why

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Speaker 1: do you think that that's not going to be the case.

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Speaker 7: Well, they're disinflationary to the extent that the people who

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Speaker 7: are buying these now more expensive goods don't have as

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Speaker 7: much real income and so they can't buy as much

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Speaker 7: and that hurts the growth rate of the economy.

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Speaker 6: So there is an effect on growth.

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Speaker 7: The key question of terrorists is when prices go up

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Speaker 7: to they get into wages. You know, the first Trump

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Speaker 7: term increase in terrorists was well advertised, but the magnitude

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Speaker 7: is actually quite small, went from about one a half

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Speaker 7: percent of imports to three percent of imports.

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Speaker 6: The magnitudes he's talking about this.

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Speaker 7: Time are much much larger, So the price effect will

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Speaker 7: be much greater. And I would expect that's at least

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Speaker 7: some of that will get into wages, and if it

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Speaker 7: gets into wages, then it keeps going.

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Speaker 6: It's not a one time effect.

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Speaker 4: Bill.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that because of the uncertainty around policy

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Speaker 1: and the potential for some of these policies to be inflationary,

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Speaker 1: do you think on the margins that can push more

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Speaker 1: members to really want to go even slower when it

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Speaker 1: comes to rate cuts.

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Speaker 6: Eventually.

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Speaker 7: I think right now the Fed still on a you know,

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Speaker 7: Madre policies restrictive, the dual mandate objectives of employment inflation

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Speaker 7: are roughly imbalanced. We need to head towards neutral, and

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Speaker 7: so I think there's still a trajectory to go towards neutral.

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Speaker 7: But I think, you know, as they said more and

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Speaker 7: more recently carefully, so December is not a done deal.

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Speaker 6: I think it's probably more likely than not. At this point.

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Speaker 7: It basically depends on the economic data, and you know

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Speaker 7: the FED is basically data depended at this point.

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Speaker 6: This is the one reason why Bessett's.

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Speaker 7: Idea of putting in a shadow governor that Fed to

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Speaker 7: basically make pronouncements as Powell's air apparent, makes a little sense,

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Speaker 7: because what the FED.

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Speaker 6: Does over the next year is really going to be

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Speaker 6: driven by Defense Bill.

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Speaker 2: How messy would that be if we had a shadow

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Speaker 2: chair in the middle of next year.

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Speaker 7: I think it's a absolutely terrible idea. I think one,

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Speaker 7: I don't think it would do much. Number two just

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Speaker 7: annoy all the other members of the Federal Reserve. So

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Speaker 7: you have this shadowed person coming in to be chair

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Speaker 7: after he's probably annoyed everybody else within the Federal Reserve

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Speaker 7: system by undercutting the current chairman.

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Speaker 6: That doesn't sound like a good recipe for success.

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Speaker 7: When you think about the chairman's power comes from its

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Speaker 7: ability to move the committee in a chief consensus. So

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Speaker 7: I think the share chairman the chaff chairman, if he

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Speaker 7: did what best at the implies that he would do

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Speaker 7: would alienate most of his colleagues on the FED.

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Speaker 2: Bill Dudley. Thank you, sir, the former New York Fed

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Speaker 2: President of the Federal Reserve through the next year. Thankful

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Speaker 2: this morning because we get these second chance of speaking

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Speaker 2: to Situ rich candoundly for us to research to reach it.

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Speaker 2: We'll try again. Thanks for being able to understand. You

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Speaker 2: heard the question, but you didn't get to answer it.

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Speaker 2: So we'll start there again. Department stores, it's been a

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Speaker 2: struggle for a long long time. What aren't they doing right?

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Speaker 2: What do they need to fix? Its fixable?

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Speaker 5: Well, I don't know that it's really fixable.

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Speaker 8: It's really a sector issue, which is really it's widespread.

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Speaker 8: It's because consumers just haven't been shopping as much, particularly

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Speaker 8: in the B and C tier malls where a lot

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Speaker 8: of these department stores have heavy concentration. We're talking about Mac's,

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Speaker 8: We're talking about Coals, of.

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Speaker 5: Course, JAYC. Penny.

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Speaker 8: These are the anchor stores that really thrived in like

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Speaker 8: the nineteen eighties and even before, but essentially since two

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Speaker 8: thousand they have been on a downturn. A ton of

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Speaker 8: competition certainly from e commerce, certainly from higher ends stores

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Speaker 8: and brands really that have decided to all go direct

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Speaker 8: to consumer. So that's been some of their biggest challenge.

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Speaker 8: And I don't know that it's necessarily fixable. It's really

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Speaker 8: a shift in the retail landscape altogether.

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Speaker 1: Streida, What does this mean in terms of just how

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Speaker 1: much this land could shift going forward?

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Speaker 4: Because if the.

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Speaker 1: Whole model of a strip mall is outdated, well there's

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Speaker 1: a lot more carnage to come.

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Speaker 4: Well.

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Speaker 8: We've talked about the transformation of these retail venues for

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Speaker 8: a long time, and a lot of it is about

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Speaker 8: switching out the real estate with other anchor tenants, or

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Speaker 8: breaking up the anchor tenants into smaller plots where you

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Speaker 8: have perhaps smaller tenants that are in them. We've seen

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Speaker 8: these anchor tenants switch to everything from grocery stores which

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Speaker 8: are growing, to gyms and fitness facilities. In some cases,

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Speaker 8: it could just be a mixed use facility where you're

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Speaker 8: transforming it into some sort of an office space and

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Speaker 8: really really distressed areas. We've seen some of these anchor

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Speaker 8: tenants become churches or schools or things completely unrelated to retail.

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Speaker 1: All I can say is I provide some research at home,

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Speaker 1: some research regarding retail with some of the family members,

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Speaker 1: and I hear a lot about drops of different types

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Speaker 1: of products and different influencers that are doing said drops.

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Speaker 1: Is the entire mo model of retail fundamentally changing in

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Speaker 1: a way that some retailers like Gap are really aware of,

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Speaker 1: others are kind of struggling to really get on board with.

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Speaker 8: Well, there is no question that the Internet has absolutely

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Speaker 8: changed it. And you were talking a lot about Amazon earlier.

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Speaker 8: That's certainly the biggest player, but definitely the social media is.

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Speaker 8: The social media players are also impacting how people discover goods,

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Speaker 8: where they actually shop for goods, and what we're seeing

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Speaker 8: even within e commerce is a lot of fragmentation, particularly

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Speaker 8: with smaller, lesser known players that are able to gain

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Speaker 8: some traction because they are able to get some influencer

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Speaker 8: credibility for a short period of time. Now, if they're lucky,

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Speaker 8: some of them will end up getting purchased by larger players.

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Speaker 8: At some of the beauty companies have been purchased by

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Speaker 8: Laureal or State Lauder, but that's usually the dream exit

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Speaker 8: strategy for a lot of these companies. In many cases

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Speaker 8: they simply may go away and other influencers come and take.

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Speaker 2: So to read the two key dates now January fifteenth,

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Speaker 2: Poor discussions. Twentieth President Donald Trump comes in with a

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Speaker 2: big promise to hi c up tariffs. What do these

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Speaker 2: companies do now with inventory? How much do they need

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Speaker 2: to stalk ahead of time? And what did they learn?

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Speaker 2: Are they conditioned by the mistake the target made?

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Speaker 8: Well, the truth is that it is probably if you

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Speaker 8: are if you're looking for what is going to happen

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Speaker 8: in January, it may be a little too late already.

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Speaker 5: These are issues that.

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Speaker 8: The retail industry has been grappling with since the first

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Speaker 8: Trump administration, and what we started to see was diversification

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Speaker 8: away from some of these tariff markets like China over time,

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Speaker 8: and I expect that that will continue to happen there will.

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Speaker 5: The good thing.

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Speaker 8: Is is that Q one tends to be a soft

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Speaker 8: quorterer in retail anyway, so it doesn't seem like it

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Speaker 8: makes a ton of sense to be stalking up inventory

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Speaker 8: for them, especially becaus you don't know what the demand

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Speaker 8: is going to be like in twenty twenty five without

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Speaker 8: better signals, because it is such an uncertain economy at

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Speaker 8: this moment in time. So I think that what we

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Speaker 8: will continue to see is diversification, will continue to see

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Speaker 8: changes to supply chain. There will be questions around whether

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Speaker 8: or not Latin America and Mexico are in fact good

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Speaker 8: places to be near shoring, versus if they too will

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Speaker 8: have tariffs, particularly on some of those soft goods.

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Speaker 5: So a lot I think is still TBD, and.

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Speaker 2: If you get it wrong, you get targeted quite literally

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Speaker 2: suchar Into Kadali. As far as the research. This is

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Speaker 2: the Bloomberg Sevenants podcast, bringing you the best in markets, economics, antiopolitics.

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