Speaker 1: Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we'll be
Speaker 1: ignoring any and all responsibilities to focus on what actually
Speaker 1: matters this weekend basketball, basketball, and more basketball.
Speaker 2: Bring on the Sweet sixteen and Elite eight.
Speaker 1: It's Friday, March twenty eighth, and on today's show, we'll
Speaker 1: be talking with c c Telfer, a Jamaican American track
Speaker 1: athlete and the first out transgender athlete to win an
Speaker 1: NCAA title. We discuss the biggest misconceptions that folks tend
Speaker 1: to have about trans athletes, why self care means so
Speaker 1: much more to her, inviting politicians, even those who oppose
Speaker 1: trans women in sports, to have a conversation with her
Speaker 1: and her fraught relationship with International Transgender Day of Visibility
Speaker 1: coming up on Monday.
Speaker 2: Plus, the Sweet sixteen is upon us.
Speaker 1: We're dropping a whole lot of WNBA news and a
Speaker 1: what the fact on the power of inclusion. It's all
Speaker 1: coming up right after this. Welcome back sl This says
Speaker 1: Happy Friay. Here's what you need to know today. Kicking
Speaker 1: things off with March Madness, The Sweet sixteen gets rolling
Speaker 1: on ESPN today at two thirty pm Eastern with you
Speaker 1: know nothing special, just the first iteration of the Duke
Speaker 1: North Carolina Tobacco road rivalry ever in the history of
Speaker 1: the women's NCAA tournament. Carol Awsom will look to usher
Speaker 1: the number two Duke Blue Devils into the Elite Eight
Speaker 1: for the first time in her five season tenure at
Speaker 1: the school, while the number three UNC tar Heels and
Speaker 1: Courtney Banghart are seeking the first Elite eight berth in
Speaker 1: her six seasons in Chapel Hill. Next on the schedule
Speaker 1: number one South Carolina and number four Maryland. At five
Speaker 1: pm Eastern, Don Staley's Game Cocks are buying to inch
Speaker 1: closer to a second consecutive NCAA title, while Brenda Freese's
Speaker 1: Terps hope to reach the regional final for the second
Speaker 1: time in three seasons. Keep an eye on junior forward
Speaker 1: Chloe Kitts, who's put up double figures in each of
Speaker 1: SC's last seven games, and keep in mind that Marylyn
Speaker 1: is coming off that tough double overtime win over Bama,
Speaker 1: so fatigue could be an.
Speaker 2: Issue for them.
Speaker 1: At seven thirty pm Eastern, to NC State Wolfpack squares
Speaker 1: off with number three LSU. Last season, the Pack turned
Speaker 1: some heads with a run to the final four, and
Speaker 1: they're hoping to conjure up some more of that magic. Meantime,
Speaker 1: Kimmulke's Tigers are back at full strength with Starguardflage Johnson
Speaker 1: back in the rotation after missing the entire SEC tournament
Speaker 1: resting some shin inflammation. LSU is seeking a second title
Speaker 1: in three years, and through two rounds they have been hot.
Speaker 1: They're the first team since Long Beach State in nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty eight to score one hundred points or more in
Speaker 1: consecutive tournament games. Last, but not least, the number one
Speaker 1: UCLA Bruins play number five ole Miss at ten pm Eastern.
Speaker 1: Corey Close in Ucla survived a first half scare from
Speaker 1: number eight Richmond in the last round of action, but
Speaker 1: they're battle tested. Led by six foot seven junior center
Speaker 1: Lauren Betts. Ole Miss is playing excellent ball under Yolette
Speaker 1: McPhee McEwan, trying to crack the Elite eight for the
Speaker 1: first time in her seven seasons as head coach. There
Speaker 1: are four more games on Saturday two, starting at one
Speaker 1: pm Eastern, with number two TCU taking on number three
Speaker 1: Notre Dame. Then it's number one Texas versus Number five
Speaker 1: Tennessee by number two Yukon facing number three Oklahoma and
Speaker 1: wrapping up with number one USC look into Sol drawn
Speaker 1: without Juju Watkins as they meet number five Kansas State.
Speaker 1: Elite eight games will take place on Sunday and Monday,
Speaker 1: narrowing the field down to the teams that'll head to
Speaker 1: Tampa for the Final four next weekend.
Speaker 2: A Tadmore College Hoops.
Speaker 1: News Florida State junior guard Tenaya Latson, who led the
Speaker 1: NCAA and scoring this season, is entering the transfer portal.
Speaker 1: Her reps at Clutch Sports broke the news to ESPNS
Speaker 1: Andrea Carter yesterday. Per a tweet from Carter, Latson is
Speaker 1: keeping all options open, including a return to FSU. Latson,
Speaker 1: a three time member of the All acc First Team,
Speaker 1: averaged twenty five point two points per game, four point
Speaker 1: six rebounds, and four point six assists this season while
Speaker 1: shooting forty five percent from the floor. In WNBA news,
Speaker 1: three time champ Candice Parker is getting her moment.
Speaker 2: Y'all. The Los Angeles Sparks.
Speaker 1: Will retire her number three jersey at Crypto dot Com
Speaker 1: Arena at halftime on June twenty ninth, during the team's
Speaker 1: game against the Chicago. Sky Parker brought star power to
Speaker 1: the Sparks brand when she was drafted first overall out
Speaker 1: of Tennessee in eight becoming the first and still only
Speaker 1: simultaneous Rookie of the Year and League MVP. In twenty sixteen,
Speaker 1: she helped the Purple and Gold end a championship draft
Speaker 1: of fourteen years, and then spent four more seasons in
Speaker 1: LA before leaving for her hometown Chicago. Sky CP three
Speaker 1: then helped the Sky to the franchise's first ever WNBA
Speaker 1: title in twenty twenty one. So it's fitting that the
Speaker 1: jersey retirement ceremony will take place at Sparks. Sky Parker's
Speaker 1: jersey will join Hall of Famer Lisa Leslie and former
Speaker 1: general manager Penny Toller's threads in LA's rafters. In a
Speaker 1: statement released by the Sparks, Parker said, quote, to see
Speaker 1: my jersey hanging in the rafters amongst other legends is
Speaker 1: truly in honor.
Speaker 2: This moment is not just about me.
Speaker 1: It's about my family, my teammates, and the incredible support
Speaker 1: from the LA Sparks organization and fans. She continued, quote,
Speaker 1: I'm grateful to my parents who believed in me every
Speaker 1: step of the way, to my brothers who are still
Speaker 1: my heroes, and to my wife and kids who inspire
Speaker 1: me every day.
Speaker 2: End quote.
Speaker 1: Less that I could talk more about Candice and all
Speaker 1: she's done for the game, but then we'd have an
Speaker 1: hour's long show, so I'll.
Speaker 2: Just be brief. Candice, you are one of one. We
Speaker 2: love you.
Speaker 1: We can't wait to celebrate you. June twenty ninth, More
Speaker 1: WNBA news. The WNBA is New York. Liberty announced yesterday
Speaker 1: that the franchise is building an eighty million dollar practice
Speaker 1: facility projected to open in twenty twenty seven, calling it
Speaker 1: the first ever facility quote designed by players for players
Speaker 1: end quote. Sabrina Escu, John Quell Jones, and Brianna Stewart
Speaker 1: collaborated with global design firm Populace on behalf of their
Speaker 1: whole squad, helping create a space that suits the team's
Speaker 1: needs on and off the floor. The facility will be
Speaker 1: located in Greenpoint, Brooklyn, overlooking the Manhattan Skyline, and it'll
Speaker 1: span seventy five thousand square feet. Amenities at the facility
Speaker 1: will include private suites for each player instead of traditional lockers,
Speaker 1: two full practice courts, an outdoor basketball court, a roof deck,
Speaker 1: player dining area, an indoor outdoor two story strength training room,
Speaker 1: an in house player hair, nail and makeup studio, and
Speaker 1: so much more. Honestly, that sounds like paradise. Hey, Si, family,
Speaker 1: libs Ellie, everybody over there?
Speaker 2: Can I move in?
Speaker 1: There's enough space, right, you won't even notice I'm there.
Speaker 1: Promise I'm real quiet, and even more w happenings.
Speaker 2: Per the Golden State Valkyries.
Speaker 1: Earlier this week, the franchise became the league's first ever
Speaker 1: to sell ten thousand season tickets.
Speaker 2: We love to hear it.
Speaker 1: The Bay Area is buzzin' for women's basketball, and the
Speaker 1: Valkyries tip off their inaugural season against the LA Sparks
Speaker 1: at Chase Center on May sixteenth. Two NWSL games on
Speaker 1: the slate tonight is the Houston Dash host Scotham FC,
Speaker 1: and the Washington Spirit welcome BAFC to the district open
Speaker 1: for a fourth straight home match sellout at Audiyfield. Both
Speaker 1: games kickoff at eight pm Eastern. Five more games across
Speaker 1: the weekend, including the kc Current hosting the Utah Royal
Speaker 1: Saturday at seven thirty pm Eastern. Last year's Golden Boot
Speaker 1: winner tim Wushewingo will be looking to tie her own
Speaker 1: NWSL record of eight straight games with a goal.
Speaker 2: We'll link to the schedule in our show notes.
Speaker 1: Finally, in college Softball News, Tennessee pitcher Carlin Pickens, the
Speaker 1: reigning SEC Pitcher of the Year, made history on Monday
Speaker 1: with a seventy eight point two mile prime pitch in
Speaker 1: the Lady Bowls game against Arkansas. The pitch is the
Speaker 1: fastest recorded in NCAA history and may even be the
Speaker 1: fastest of all time. Monica Abbott, who was also a
Speaker 1: Lady Vowl, had a seventy seven mile prior pitch in
Speaker 1: a National Pro Fast Pitch game in twenty twelve. That
Speaker 1: till now had been the fastest softball pitch according to
Speaker 1: the Guinness Book.
Speaker 2: Of World Records.
Speaker 1: But our research also found a Japanese pitcher, Yukiko uh
Speaker 1: I know, who's said to have thrown a fast pitch
Speaker 1: of one hundred and twenty eight kilometers per hour, which
Speaker 1: is about seventy nine miles per hour. So we'll just
Speaker 1: tell you that pickens pitch was fast, real fast, College
Speaker 1: record breaking, Guinness World record breaking, and maybe more. Pickens
Speaker 1: has already received an invite to play in a Savannah
Speaker 1: Banana's game. No word yet on whether she'll just pitch
Speaker 1: or get to hop in on a choreographed dance too.
Speaker 1: By the way, we know, it's Friday and she threw
Speaker 1: the pitch on Monday. But Tennessee's Cherry Parker Lee Stadium
Speaker 1: is five hundred and fifty miles from Good Game HQ
Speaker 1: here in Chicago, and it's seventy eight miles per hour.
Speaker 2: It took a little while to get here.
Speaker 1: We got to take a quick break when we come
Speaker 1: back my conversation with CC Telfer.
Speaker 2: But first a quick note. CC's perspective in.
Speaker 1: This interview is informed, of course, by her lived experience.
Speaker 1: At times, some of what she says doesn't seem entirely
Speaker 1: consistent with the latest science or academic studies.
Speaker 2: But here a good Game.
Speaker 1: We're prioritizing running this interview because far too often conversations
Speaker 1: about trans people and trans athlete inclusion in sports don't
Speaker 1: actually involve trans voices. So while CC might not have
Speaker 1: all the perfect answers or have every relevant statistic right
Speaker 1: off the top of her head, we think it's more
Speaker 1: important for her voice to be heard as opposed to
Speaker 1: having folks continue to speak around her without regard for
Speaker 1: her humanity. All right, my conversation with CC's up next?
Speaker 2: Stick around joining us now.
Speaker 1: She's a Jamaican born track athlete and twenty nineteen Division
Speaker 1: two NCAA champion in the four hundred meter hurdles, an author, activist,
Speaker 1: and model. If you scroll her Insta, you know she
Speaker 1: loves a matching work outfit and a bright jewel tone dress.
Speaker 2: At CC telfer, what's up? CC? Thanks for joining us?
Speaker 3: Hey you know, Sarah, I'm here. Thank you so much
Speaker 3: for having me. Sorry about being tardy. Listen on me.
Speaker 2: You're fine, You're here, That's what matters.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 1: I want to start by talking about part of the
Speaker 1: reason you're here, transitive visibility coming up on Monday the
Speaker 1: thirty first, and I want to ask, just in general,
Speaker 1: what are your feelings about the day and have they
Speaker 1: changed in recent years.
Speaker 3: Honestly, Sarah, it's become a bittersweet moment for me. I
Speaker 3: don't know if you guys have done any research, but
Speaker 3: back when I qualified for the Tokyo Olympics, they were
Speaker 3: giving me a really hard time in accommodating me than
Speaker 3: meaning World Athletics. They weren't really giving me good directions.
Speaker 3: So with that happening International Trensgender Day of Visibility, I
Speaker 3: would band on that day in twenty twenty two. So
Speaker 3: it was just like that. It's a bittersweet moment that like,
Speaker 3: thank you so much for the recognition, but like, no,
Speaker 3: think you because it's fake and the fact that you
Speaker 3: threw it in my face that you're not allowed to
Speaker 3: be an athlete. But on top of that, we're going
Speaker 3: to ban you on yours day that we recognize you
Speaker 3: and see you and supposedly see you. So it was
Speaker 3: very hurtful to get that notification on that day and
Speaker 3: right and now looking forward, it just feels like a
Speaker 3: constant reminder that I don't belong and that I'm allowed
Speaker 3: to be anything else except this I'm allowed to be.
Speaker 3: But it's truly not that I'm allowed to be, it's
Speaker 3: what can we allow you to be? You know, and
Speaker 3: then ban you on your the day that we're supposed
Speaker 3: to see you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's almost like this weird dichotomy of like you
Speaker 1: both appreciate and want to be recognized and also you
Speaker 1: just want to fit in and not stand out, right,
Speaker 1: and in that moment, the fact that they didn't allow
Speaker 1: you to fit and meant that you didn't get to participate.
Speaker 1: You know, in a recent interview, you talked about how,
Speaker 1: prior to this administration, you knew that you woke up
Speaker 1: every day and you left the house and that you
Speaker 1: might have to face some adversaries. But now because of
Speaker 1: this administration, quote, I wake up every day and I
Speaker 1: have to make sure that I.
Speaker 2: Make it home alive.
Speaker 1: Yes, can you share how things have changed for you
Speaker 1: just even in the past few months.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I do feel as though that the far right
Speaker 3: has gotten louder about their hate for transgender people. It's
Speaker 3: not about women in sports. It's just about controlling the
Speaker 3: narrative and controlling who gets to exist and who doesn't. Respectfully,
Speaker 3: the Trump administration and I have a personal relationship. They
Speaker 3: did call me out in twenty nineteen, his son's calling
Speaker 3: me a grave injustice to women's sports me personally, and
Speaker 3: that kind of put a target on my back. The
Speaker 3: target has gotten louder, more confident, bolder in the past
Speaker 3: few months, and even given my workplace, a lot of
Speaker 3: Make America Great Again hats like to come to my register,
Speaker 3: like to come to my store when there's other lanes
Speaker 3: that are open, right, they like to come to me
Speaker 3: and even like to my death, like they hate me
Speaker 3: so much, but they want my services. It's just it's unfathomable,
Speaker 3: you know. And then I have cars screaming at me,
Speaker 3: yelling out the window, call me if they call me,
Speaker 3: all of these things, knowing very well that, like, you know,
Speaker 3: I'm a woman, so like in my long hair, I'm
Speaker 3: wearing like a trop top, short shirts whatever it may
Speaker 3: be that time, like I very much exude feminine. I
Speaker 3: very much exude h beauty and femininity. So it's just
Speaker 3: like to be screamed at and yelled at in like
Speaker 3: you know, in a gay friendly neighborhood. It just shows
Speaker 3: how people have always been thinking and what they've been thinking.
Speaker 3: I'm constantly misgendered by gay white men that act like
Speaker 3: they don't know what the pro pro is.
Speaker 2: So it feels like even the LGBTQ community.
Speaker 3: Absolutely even going to the gym is an issue. I
Speaker 3: how am I supposed to How am I supposed to
Speaker 3: go into the locker rooms and change if they're they're
Speaker 3: they're creating this big issue about changing rooms and bathrooms. Like, right,
Speaker 3: I do see the women and now more than ever.
Speaker 3: Like even in the past few months, they've been like
Speaker 3: acting where they've been like jumping when they see me
Speaker 3: in the changing room. They've been giving me smarky looks.
Speaker 3: And that was not the case three months ago. Women
Speaker 3: were very much like we don't care, like you know.
Speaker 1: It's both performative, I think, in order to show displeasure,
Speaker 1: but I think it's also probably as a result of
Speaker 1: a real intention from the far right to create fear
Speaker 1: around trans people more so than ever before. The amount
Speaker 1: of money spent on advertising to demonize trans people, not
Speaker 1: just in women's sport but in general. So then turn
Speaker 1: people into not just maybe neutral observers, but to feel
Speaker 1: like they're empowered to act or to show displeasure in
Speaker 1: a way that just wasn't okay before, or at least
Speaker 1: felt like for a while in most places it wasn't okay.
Speaker 3: And they're scapegoating women like me to pretend that they
Speaker 3: care about women in women's sports and issues.
Speaker 1: And now we have the research that shows that the
Speaker 1: people who are arguing on behalf of quote unquote protecting
Speaker 1: or saving women's sports are usually ones that don't have
Speaker 1: good feelings about women and women athletes in the first
Speaker 1: place exactly, so it's all up front for their anti transagenda.
Speaker 1: You know, I want to talk about your title. Back
Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen, six years ago, you became the first
Speaker 1: out transgender athlete to win an NCAA title, winning the
Speaker 1: Division two four under meter hurdles for Franklin Pierce University.
Speaker 1: What are the emotions you feel when you remember that victory.
Speaker 3: The emotions I feel are very much happily and sad.
Speaker 3: It feels victorious and it's very much affirming for me
Speaker 3: because one I belong, I belong on that team. I
Speaker 3: belong in that moment. I belong. I deserve to win
Speaker 3: that title just like any other ladies lining up on
Speaker 3: that line with me. And like sadness because I did
Speaker 3: get a lot of praise from a lot of ladies
Speaker 3: that I line up on the line with me. But
Speaker 3: I'm getting a lot of hate even today from that
Speaker 3: because of that day, from some athletes that I ran
Speaker 3: with on that day in twenty nineteen are still currently
Speaker 3: mad and it's trying to resend that title or they
Speaker 3: see as an accolade, which I don't see as a
Speaker 3: title on accolade. I see it as a step further
Speaker 3: in my affirmation in who I am and my validation
Speaker 3: of what I'm here to do. And it's never going
Speaker 3: to be a feeling of greatness and gratitude until I
Speaker 3: get to that Olympic stage because when it comes to
Speaker 3: the NCAA level, they pretend, like, you know, our existence
Speaker 3: in sports doesn't matter if you're not Division one. So
Speaker 3: in my mental state as an athlete, when I get
Speaker 3: on that Olympic stage, that's when I can start celebrating.
Speaker 3: That's when I can start rejoicing. Right but right now,
Speaker 3: the game has just begun, So it was just another
Speaker 3: step in the right direction for me, truly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to talk about the future of your
Speaker 1: track career in a little bit, but I think part
Speaker 1: of what's probably interesting too about that win is that
Speaker 1: there are less than enthusiastic reactions to your success. There's
Speaker 1: such complicated feelings about your win, and that's not usually
Speaker 1: how how it works. Usually it's just good job you won, right,
Speaker 1: And instead you have to have it wrapped up in
Speaker 1: whether your win is some sort of referendum on the
Speaker 1: dominance of trans participation and the reason that it's problematic. Right,
Speaker 1: it's much easier for us even those who back trans
Speaker 1: inclusion to argue when those trans athletes aren't winning absolutely
Speaker 1: because we could point to them and say, see, they
Speaker 1: just want to participate and be included and play yes,
Speaker 1: and then winning is much more complicated. So you've become,
Speaker 1: in many ways, one of the very few faces of that.
Speaker 1: How has that been for you? How do you defend
Speaker 1: your right to win, not just be included and participate.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, to defend my right to win. How
Speaker 3: I do that is I show up and I showed that. Like,
Speaker 3: when it comes to athletics and winning, it takes hard work, determination, blood,
Speaker 3: sweat and tear. Is just like any other athletes who
Speaker 3: are putting everything that they have, everything that they've been
Speaker 3: trained for, on that line, on that field, on that course. Right,
Speaker 3: that's what really defines me. So these people that are
Speaker 3: creating all of these noises are not athletes, so therefore
Speaker 3: whatever they're saying doesn't really affect me as much. However,
Speaker 3: just like anybody else, that's what speaks for my success
Speaker 3: is my hard work and dedication to my sport that
Speaker 3: shows for itself, just like Angel Reis or Sydney mcloughland. Right, yeah,
Speaker 3: just like all these other girls. That's how I show up.
Speaker 3: I can't just wake up and decide to be a
Speaker 3: female athlete as a transgender person. You know, there are
Speaker 3: levels to it, and even if I even to get
Speaker 3: on that track, I have to wait a year or
Speaker 3: two in order for everything to you know, get the
Speaker 3: green flag, to even compete.
Speaker 1: Right and ultimately have lower testosterone levels than says women,
Speaker 1: proving it again that the success of an athlete goes
Speaker 1: so far beyond just your tea number exactly, preparation, hard work, mental,
Speaker 1: all the other stuff that goes into it. I wonder
Speaker 1: what you think like the biggest misconceptions are about trans
Speaker 1: athletes in general.
Speaker 3: The biggest misconceptions first is that this is a choice.
Speaker 3: It's not a choice, and the choice that we had
Speaker 3: to make to be ourselves was not an easy one,
Speaker 3: so right there, right then and there, this is not
Speaker 3: a choice. I lived this life. I didn't buy it.
Speaker 3: The second most misconception is that we have an advantage
Speaker 3: in sports, which we do not, as speaking personally, as
Speaker 3: a transgender female athlete that has to undergo rigorous medical
Speaker 3: treatment and then have to be approved by doctors, your therapists,
Speaker 3: and then have to show all of these medical implications
Speaker 3: to your board sporting body, and then there's still a
Speaker 3: lingering possibility that they might not agree. Even if you
Speaker 3: checked all the boxes and follow all the rules which
Speaker 3: I have, you still are subjected to so much. Right,
Speaker 3: And the fact is, hormones don't play a significant part
Speaker 3: in your success as an athlete. It's determined upon how
Speaker 3: hard you work your resources that you have, so coaches
Speaker 3: and faysics are huge in being an athlete, and then
Speaker 3: just your mental and physical health overall. So with that
Speaker 3: being said, like my muscle rates, the medical transition that
Speaker 3: I'm going through, my muscle mass is little to none,
Speaker 3: and it's constantly being deteriorated every single day. I have
Speaker 3: no testosterone in my body. My bones are getting more
Speaker 3: and more brittler. So the quote unquote advantage that everybody
Speaker 3: is talking about, especially because they like to pinpoint puberty,
Speaker 3: all of that medically and scientifically is non existent anymore.
Speaker 3: And these people that come up with these rules have
Speaker 3: done the research and it's all there that shows that
Speaker 3: when undergoing all of these hormone replacement therapies, there are
Speaker 3: no advantages. There are none of these underlying factors that
Speaker 3: everybody's talking about right, and then they try to make
Speaker 3: the comparison that, oh, what about when you were competing
Speaker 3: on the male team and on the female team. Well,
Speaker 3: if you really think about it, I'm a female athlete
Speaker 3: competing with the males, Like my hormones and all of
Speaker 3: that are already female. So therefore I'm not going to
Speaker 3: be as fast, I'm not going to be as good.
Speaker 3: I'm not going to be as great because not only
Speaker 3: I'm going through medical implications that is taking away my talent,
Speaker 3: but I'm competing against men who are naturally talented, fast
Speaker 3: and good at what they do without medical implications. Right, Right,
Speaker 3: So when I go in the right category that I
Speaker 3: belong in, you now see that the numbers are correlating
Speaker 3: and they're matching up and they make sense.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: I love this quote from friend of the Show Nikki
Speaker 1: Hilts Love Nicki non binary runner, who came on and said,
Speaker 1: if you're born into a world in which you don't fit,
Speaker 1: that means you were made to build a new one.
Speaker 2: It is an inspiring quote.
Speaker 1: It's powerful, it's very hopeful, but it also feels like
Speaker 1: a lot of folks who are already burdened by the
Speaker 1: weight of bigotry and hate and ignorance. Then also get
Speaker 1: tasked with the weight of advocacy and building worlds that
Speaker 1: they want to live in. And I wonder do you
Speaker 1: feel drawn to that? What's your relationship with activism and
Speaker 1: the sort of pressure to represent or speak for all
Speaker 1: trans folks.
Speaker 3: To be honest, Sarah, there is no pressure. The only
Speaker 3: pressure is just getting up and doing what you love
Speaker 3: every day and not letting anybody stop you from doing that.
Speaker 3: That's what the pressure is. Which is so easy because
Speaker 3: as an athlete, traming and competing and putting in the
Speaker 3: work to get to where I need to be is
Speaker 3: so freeing. It's so therapeutic. It offers something a life
Speaker 3: saving aspect that nothing else can offer, not even therapy,
Speaker 3: not even doctors. So when I get out of practice
Speaker 3: every single day, I feel so good to the point
Speaker 3: that I can conquer the world. Not even Donald Trump
Speaker 3: himself can say anything to break my heart, upset me,
Speaker 3: or make me want to go, you know, un alive myself,
Speaker 3: because I feel like that's what a lot of so
Speaker 3: much hate that's coming from that administration every single day.
Speaker 3: It can make a person without a backbone do that.
Speaker 3: So just knowing like the physical and real world benefits
Speaker 3: of training, of being an athlete. That's what's carrying me
Speaker 3: through period. And to speak to Nicky's quote, which is
Speaker 3: such a beautifl full one, when the world is trying
Speaker 3: to make you not exist for just being who you are,
Speaker 3: that just shows and it speaks volumes of how important
Speaker 3: your awareness and your visibility is to this world. And
Speaker 3: plus kids, if we're really talking about the kids, kids
Speaker 3: who are trans, non binary, LGBTQ, whatever it may be, different,
Speaker 3: not know how to you know, identify with whatever identity
Speaker 3: that they're struggling with. They need to see a physical
Speaker 3: manifestation of their dreams and themselves in order to you know,
Speaker 3: be who they are, be what they want to be
Speaker 3: in the world.
Speaker 1: You know, That's what Chris Mosher always says. Yeah, friend,
Speaker 1: Chris Mosure always says, be the person you needed to
Speaker 1: see when you were younger.
Speaker 3: And if you don't allow these people to do that,
Speaker 3: you're robbing them of their potential and of their dreams
Speaker 3: and of what they are here to do. And I
Speaker 3: am being robbed every single day ever since twenty nineteen,
Speaker 3: and a lot of people don't see that.
Speaker 1: I think the idea of building a world. I know
Speaker 1: Meghan Rappino has talked to this too. Sometimes she just says,
Speaker 1: I just choose to live in the world. I want
Speaker 1: to exist even if it doesn't exist yet, and I
Speaker 1: act like it's already here, and hope to change the
Speaker 1: people around me so that they see things the way
Speaker 1: that I do.
Speaker 2: And I try to embody that a lot. It's hard.
Speaker 1: And I know you mentioned the hatred, how difficult it
Speaker 1: is to carry around remarks from this administration or from others,
Speaker 1: and how sports almost gives you a backbone.
Speaker 2: I'm sure what you meant.
Speaker 1: You know, it's hard for people to want to stay
Speaker 1: alive if they don't have a backbone. It's really just
Speaker 1: a support system, both internally and externally. And this thing
Speaker 1: that you love that gives you a feeling of freedom
Speaker 1: and life and identity.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: I think hearing athletes of any kind talk about what
Speaker 1: sport means to them, we often don't talk about the
Speaker 1: sort of psychosomatic body mind connection of true freedom, of
Speaker 1: what you're telling your body about safety when you take
Speaker 1: deep gulping breaths when you run, it ends stress cycles
Speaker 1: that you're carrying to the track. Ever, and then releasing
Speaker 1: in sport. And that's why it's so important that you
Speaker 1: get to be included. And you know, when we have
Speaker 1: conversations about this administration, I think a lot of people
Speaker 1: rightfully so don't want to engage with someone who wants
Speaker 1: to erase who they are. But you recently told CNN Sport,
Speaker 1: I'm willing to sit down with anybody who's willing to
Speaker 1: have the conversation, even the Trump administration, Trump himself, if
Speaker 1: he wants to sit down with me and talk and
Speaker 1: have a human conversation and see me. Have you had
Speaker 1: many folks who make policy actually reach out to you to.
Speaker 2: Ask you about your experience or for your counsel.
Speaker 3: No, Sarah, And that's the funny. I'm so glad that
Speaker 3: you asked that question, because they like to think that
Speaker 3: they know and have the answers. But you don't like
Speaker 3: to incorporate or have the people be a part of
Speaker 3: the conversation or the table that are making these decisions.
Speaker 3: It makes no sense. And what you spoke on about
Speaker 3: Megan Rapino, I think three months ago, for transgender people,
Speaker 3: especially women in sports, I would say yes, I identify with that,
Speaker 3: like I have to create the world that I want
Speaker 3: to live in which is what we're doing. But as
Speaker 3: of three months ago, it's becoming more and more unsafe
Speaker 3: to do that. It's like the more we are allowed
Speaker 3: about who we are, the more angry the far right is.
Speaker 3: It's the craziest thing. It's the craziest thing. Like I
Speaker 3: showed up to work today in a Q dress, like
Speaker 3: affirming who I am, Like you would think I'm thinking
Speaker 3: about myself, but I'm not making it difficult for other
Speaker 3: people to get the message. Lashes, eyes, nails, always done
Speaker 3: on point. But you're still going to miss gender me.
Speaker 3: You're still gonna call me a man and go out
Speaker 3: of your way too at that you're creating an unsafe space,
Speaker 3: not only for me, but for the people around you.
Speaker 3: Because now that little girl who thought that I was
Speaker 3: a mermaid and that was a girl, you're making it
Speaker 3: confusing for her when you hear her calling me a
Speaker 3: man in sir. And this is how we create you
Speaker 3: know what I mean? That horrible narrative that we're trying
Speaker 3: to eliminate. Sorry, I just wanted to like pop on that. Yeah,
Speaker 3: Like I love that, it's so beautiful. But when we
Speaker 3: try to create the world ourselves we are demonized, and.
Speaker 1: Right, there has to be safety in that choice of
Speaker 1: how and where you show up to create that world. Yes,
Speaker 1: so it's hard for me to watch anti transactivists use
Speaker 1: just like blatant lies and misinformation to try to scare
Speaker 1: people into adopting their point of view. And I think
Speaker 1: the last couple months, the way people are reacting to
Speaker 1: transfolks and being more dangerous, being more demonstrative in their hatred,
Speaker 1: is as a result of a lot of these lies,
Speaker 1: people like Senator Tommy Tuberville claiming that their entire girls
Speaker 1: teams made up of trans girls.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, mind you.
Speaker 1: Twenty twenty one, when Alabama band trendsgender students from competing
Speaker 1: in high school athletics, the Alabama High School Athletic Association
Speaker 1: said it wasn't aware of any trans athletes ever competing
Speaker 1: in the state.
Speaker 2: And this is what we find.
Speaker 1: So often policy is created for zero to one or
Speaker 1: two athletes, usually in it like preventative in advance of
Speaker 1: a problem that doesn't exist.
Speaker 2: And I wonder how.
Speaker 1: Do people who want to have thoughtful conversations about trans
Speaker 1: participation with nuance and data compete with those headline grabbing
Speaker 1: lies that they're using.
Speaker 3: Honestly, Sarah, that's a really good question. And there's nothing
Speaker 3: better than having the actual source there themselves, right, There's
Speaker 3: nothing better than primary data. So the actual people with
Speaker 3: real life experiences, like myself, Chris Mooser, Chase Well, I mean,
Speaker 3: Chase is not an athlete, but you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: The athletes that are actually yes, the athletes that are
Speaker 3: actively out and like doing the work. These are the
Speaker 3: ones that we need to invite to the conversations. And
Speaker 3: like when I called al Donald Trump and my governing
Speaker 3: bodies of track and Field, I call them out too,
Speaker 3: because they are making decisions. They see the science, and
Speaker 3: they see the proof and the results which coordinate with
Speaker 3: the science that they they studied, by the way, and
Speaker 3: I invited them to follow me on a day to
Speaker 3: day basis to see what goes on in my life
Speaker 3: and if you want to follow me around for a
Speaker 3: whole month to make sure you know what I mean,
Speaker 3: there is no great aired. They they still don't want
Speaker 3: to do that because it's not about transgender women in sports.
Speaker 2: It's just about it's misogyny.
Speaker 1: Ultimately, if we can slowly use trans people and then
Speaker 1: queer people, yeah, and then women, Like so much of
Speaker 1: it is tied to staying in your lane.
Speaker 3: Or your role ultimately exactly staying in your lane on
Speaker 3: your role, that is exactly what it is, right, How
Speaker 3: do you.
Speaker 1: Deal with your identity and who you are and who
Speaker 1: you know? Is you being discussed mostly through the lens
Speaker 1: of statistics and policy as opposed to your humanity.
Speaker 3: Every day It's so hard to handle, Like when people
Speaker 3: see me or knowing that I'm now like restricted to
Speaker 3: just statistics and numbers, that like really sucks. But at
Speaker 3: the end of the day, I just how I show
Speaker 3: up or how I break through that is that I
Speaker 3: just keep continue to show up and keep continue to
Speaker 3: you know, voice my opinion on platforms like this one
Speaker 3: and CNN and you know other platforms that give me
Speaker 3: a voice to show them that, like, you know, regardless
Speaker 3: of the facts and sciences that are presented, here is
Speaker 3: the real life experience coming from me. And you know,
Speaker 3: just looking back on where I was and where I
Speaker 3: am today is so affirming and it just empowers me
Speaker 3: to keep going in the direction that I'm going because
Speaker 3: if not me, who and nobody's going to live my
Speaker 3: life besides me?
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, we had the host of the Tested
Speaker 1: podcasts on our show, and some really excellent incredible reporting there,
Speaker 1: including on the ongoing study of the science behind trans
Speaker 1: participation and also athletes with differences in sex development and
Speaker 1: the kind of gamut of how human biology is not binary.
Speaker 1: But we're trying to force sports to be in a
Speaker 1: binary so it's complicated, right. Yes, even those who believe
Speaker 1: in inclusion, particularly like the youth level, might still have
Speaker 1: questions about fairness at collegiate, pro or Olympic levels and
Speaker 1: can point to science in some ways still being sort
Speaker 1: of a jury is out. What would you say to
Speaker 1: someone who's like, yes, absolutely, at youth levels or middle
Speaker 1: school or even maybe high school, we should prioritize the
Speaker 1: humanity aspect and the participation what can be gained from
Speaker 1: being on a team. But I'm not sure about how
Speaker 1: to police it or make rulings when you get into
Speaker 1: the highest levels.
Speaker 3: That's a good question as well. I would say for now,
Speaker 3: working on the lower levels or the novice levels of
Speaker 3: or it's fine. Ways to always incorporate and include other kids,
Speaker 3: for sure, because at the end of the day, these
Speaker 3: are the skills that are necessary to get into the
Speaker 3: real world or to even treat other people who don't
Speaker 3: look like you necessarily, you know, as a good human being.
Speaker 3: Collaborative skills, working with other people and working together with
Speaker 3: your classmates and your peers. These are skills that are
Speaker 3: earned are you develop over time, Especially when you're an athlete,
Speaker 3: you develop them sooner actually when you're on a team,
Speaker 3: and it just helps you integrate into society and life
Speaker 3: better knowing that there are classes of people that don't
Speaker 3: look like you, may not necessarily have the same privilege
Speaker 3: as you, but they're still human beings and they deserve
Speaker 3: to be treated well and to be treated as such.
Speaker 3: So I feel like on the lower level, empower kids
Speaker 3: to work together and to play sports together. There are
Speaker 3: co ed teams. People like to pretend that co ed
Speaker 3: teams don't exist, they do, or.
Speaker 2: That like younger kids don't play with older.
Speaker 3: Kids exactly, and that boy and girls don't pay on
Speaker 3: the same team, especially when you're in preschool, middle school,
Speaker 3: elementary levels. Yeah, and these are the things that actually
Speaker 3: I think that co ed sports, especially at the lower
Speaker 3: level are are how Sydney with Gloughlins and you knows
Speaker 3: and all of these other female athletes became so amazingly
Speaker 3: great at their sport because they were all out. They
Speaker 3: were competing with boys and they had to be the best,
Speaker 3: and they had that you know, competitive spirit that that
Speaker 3: was nurtured and manifested, you know, on and off the
Speaker 3: field with their their their peers, teachers, and their family.
Speaker 3: Like you know, a lot of these people, a lot
Speaker 3: of these successful athletes, their their family and their parents
Speaker 3: are a huge pillar in their success. And that's a
Speaker 3: huge mental boost to ignore every and anything. Imagine if
Speaker 3: Sidney McLoughlin was going through what I was going through
Speaker 3: and having the stability that her parents get get her
Speaker 3: nothing else matters like that mental stability that you have,
Speaker 3: that mental and physical state of being, like that solitude
Speaker 3: of knowing who you are and having your parents to
Speaker 3: back you, that is huge. I don't have that. I
Speaker 3: know that like other trends female athletes like Sadie don't
Speaker 3: have that. We look at Injury or Yearwood and Terry Mill.
Speaker 3: There are those two trends athletes that sparked this whole
Speaker 3: thing that you know, they had their parents to support
Speaker 3: them and be the shield and guide them, and look
Speaker 3: at how that came out. I saw the whole thing
Speaker 3: plan out and their moms, not their dads. A lot
Speaker 3: of their moms are on the front line saying that
Speaker 3: this is my kid and this is you know, they
Speaker 3: were advocating because a lot of the fathers didn't know
Speaker 3: how to. And that's really what it takes. It takes
Speaker 3: the parents to intervene and say, no, my kid is
Speaker 3: going to be competing on this team whether you like
Speaker 3: it or not, because this is who they are, and
Speaker 3: what are we going to do in order to make
Speaker 3: sure that they can you know, integrate into the team appropriately.
Speaker 1: It's about following policy that exists and continuing to update
Speaker 1: policy the best we can with a mind for inclusion
Speaker 1: and also for fairness and understanding where the science takes
Speaker 1: us and leads us, and trying to be as humane
Speaker 1: and caring as we can in the process while also
Speaker 1: trying to keep it as fair as we can. And
Speaker 1: I think that's, like I said, really hard to do
Speaker 1: when we're trying to force a binary out of people
Speaker 1: and humans who are not necessarily in a binary. Do
Speaker 1: you think that there's a league or an organization that's
Speaker 1: getting it right.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, Sarah, that's a really good question. Like
Speaker 3: right now, I think just everybody's following suit. It was cycling,
Speaker 3: Now cycling has banned, you know Chelsea Wolf and she
Speaker 3: already went to Tokyore Like, Oh, I'm like, I'm trying
Speaker 3: to think which because I feel like the last couple
Speaker 3: of months has scared everybody off and now everybody's following suit.
Speaker 3: I think the one organization that I was going to
Speaker 3: stick with was the NCAA, and they they just changed policy.
Speaker 3: So right now I just feel like nobody we're not
Speaker 3: protected under anything. Everybody wants to cast us out. Yeah,
Speaker 3: we're fending for ourselves.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it feels like it enter your point,
Speaker 1: it does feel like there was sort of a consensus
Speaker 1: around like making their own policies and deciding based on
Speaker 1: a lot of research and science, and now they're being
Speaker 1: sort of threatened in some cases, whether you're defending or
Speaker 1: otherwise into acquiescing. Have you I've seen somebody, an individual person,
Speaker 1: have their mind changed about trans athlete participation in favor
Speaker 1: of inclusion, and what did it?
Speaker 2: What changed their mind?
Speaker 3: Honestly, I have changed a lot of coaches minds. I've
Speaker 3: interacted with a lot of coaches on the NCAA Division
Speaker 3: two that thought that had the narrative that it's wrong
Speaker 3: for me to be in women's sports, especially because they've
Speaker 3: seen me compete as a female athlete on the men's team,
Speaker 3: which they were okay with. But once I made that
Speaker 3: transition to like, you know, protect myself and the mental
Speaker 3: health and like do what's best for me, they completely
Speaker 3: changed their narrative. And then they got to know me
Speaker 3: as an athlete, you know, with conferences and state championships
Speaker 3: and just constantly seeing me and then actually giving me
Speaker 3: the benefit of doubt and interacting with me, seeing how
Speaker 3: I interact with their other athletes, seeing how I because
Speaker 3: of me, their athletes actually got faster, numbers, got quicker,
Speaker 3: They actually went to national something that they didn't know,
Speaker 3: they didn't think that they were capable of doing without
Speaker 3: having somebody like me to challenge them. A lot of
Speaker 3: the coaches have come out and said thank you so
Speaker 3: much for existing and for being here. I even had
Speaker 3: my own perceptions of transgender people until I've met you,
Speaker 3: so thank you for that, which is huge.
Speaker 1: That's a big part of it for sure, just meeting people.
Speaker 1: They're human beings. When we tend to meet each other,
Speaker 1: regardless of our differences, we want to connect. It's it's
Speaker 1: just organic and authentic to want to connect to other humans.
Speaker 1: And there's too many people just lobbing insults from far
Speaker 1: away through a computer or through policy that they haven't recess.
Speaker 3: Yeah, especially dads who have daughters. They have come out
Speaker 3: and saying I don't like the way this world is
Speaker 3: treating woman as a whole. And I see that like
Speaker 3: you're you know how my daughters look up to you
Speaker 3: or and they're not even trans, right, So it's just
Speaker 3: like they don't want to change that narrative, you know,
Speaker 3: and they have nothing but to embrace and do their
Speaker 3: research and now they see, well, these women are actually
Speaker 3: like regular people, right, so why not love and embrace?
Speaker 3: And it's getting somewhere. But I feel like the last
Speaker 3: couple of months is scaring a lot of.
Speaker 1: People right going backwards, it feels like, Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: one thing is, like you said, if you can't go
Speaker 1: out and talk to face to face someone, they can
Speaker 1: read your book from last year, Make It Count My
Speaker 1: fight to become the first transgender Olympic runner.
Speaker 2: Why should folks read that?
Speaker 1: And what do you talk about in that book about
Speaker 1: your hopes for your future as an athlete.
Speaker 3: My book Make Account Fight to Be the first tran
Speaker 3: gender Olympic runner speaks a lot about my you know,
Speaker 3: coming of age, coming of coming to who I am.
Speaker 3: Storytelling is the best way to you know, get people
Speaker 3: to get involved and to have a conversation and to
Speaker 3: include different people a part of the conversation, even those
Speaker 3: that are anti trans so and it gives them the
Speaker 3: perspective of how I was thinking of what was really
Speaker 3: going on in my head during that time and leading
Speaker 3: up to Who I Am now. And one thing that
Speaker 3: stood out to me while I was writing that book
Speaker 3: and hundreds of copies of editing and uh sleepless nights,
Speaker 3: was that little Ceci always saw herself as a little girl.
Speaker 3: She never identified as a boy, never identified as gay,
Speaker 3: never identified as anything masculine. I've I came to the
Speaker 3: epiphany that she was always seeking the female like who
Speaker 3: she was as a as a little girl, because everything
Speaker 3: that was physical was against her thought process and everything
Speaker 3: that people was trying to constantly correct to her, like girl,
Speaker 3: boys don't do this, boys to do that, That's not
Speaker 3: what you do. You don't stand like that, you don't
Speaker 3: talk like that, you don't play back before you don't
Speaker 3: run like that, so and then she.
Speaker 2: Was doing Yeah, it's exactly.
Speaker 3: So that really stood out to me. And I feel
Speaker 3: like my book offers that truth and that raw storytelling
Speaker 3: that a lot of books don't have nowadays, you know.
Speaker 3: And I married the book too, and for my audiobook,
Speaker 3: and the making comes out sometimes because it's just so
Speaker 3: it's so truthful and so impacting, and it even impacted
Speaker 3: me like reading it over and over again, like yeah,
Speaker 3: the pain that it brings, the laughter and love that
Speaker 3: it brings, Like even thinking about it right now, like
Speaker 3: I'm getting emotional because I'm looking back on where I
Speaker 3: was and who I am today and I couldn't be here.
Speaker 3: I would have never been here today if it wasn't
Speaker 3: for little CC So I had to give her her flowers.
Speaker 3: And for a little girl to be that strong and
Speaker 3: knowing who she was when the world was telling her
Speaker 3: that this is not who she is, it's very inspiring.
Speaker 1: How do your hopes for your future as an athlete
Speaker 1: maybe differ from the reality that you think will happen,
Speaker 1: or do you still have hope that you'll be able
Speaker 1: to pursue the dreams you have?
Speaker 2: Right now?
Speaker 3: Everything is just in the unknown. And I feel like
Speaker 3: the one thing that really kept me saying was waking
Speaker 3: up every day knowing that I have to go to
Speaker 3: practice and make sure that I give it everything in
Speaker 3: order to start my day or to even eat. So
Speaker 3: now that like the narrative is just so loud that
Speaker 3: it's affecting like my career, it's affecting my rent, it's
Speaker 3: affecting the money that goes in my pocket. Like I
Speaker 3: not to like come to the realization that, you know,
Speaker 3: athletics might not be something that is for me, you know,
Speaker 3: like being in this solution or an endless cycle of
Speaker 3: being torn down and not feeling or being embraced or
Speaker 3: feeling like you're a part of something. It's it's it's
Speaker 3: getting tired. It's nothing new, right, however, it is getting tiring,
Speaker 3: especially when the far right is just so loud, and
Speaker 3: I'm seeing that my my counterparts, like Sadie, Sadie Shiner,
Speaker 3: like she we entered a track meet together and they
Speaker 3: pulled her out of that meat like hours before she
Speaker 3: got onto that track. Had I spent eight hundred dollars
Speaker 3: to fly to Boston to compete, what would they have
Speaker 3: said to me? Because I didn't get that email that
Speaker 3: she got right right, and that would just been a
Speaker 3: way a huge waste of money. So I find myself
Speaker 3: reconstructing my life where I can't make athletics a priority anymore.
Speaker 3: However it's not It's still there in my day to
Speaker 3: day life, Like I still feel like I cannot complete
Speaker 3: my day unless I train. I just worked an eight
Speaker 3: hour shift and my day still didn't start until I train.
Speaker 3: Once I take my shoes off and I'm on my
Speaker 3: way home, my body is completely different. I'm on the
Speaker 3: entire day like stress, Like it's the craziest thing.
Speaker 1: So there's so much safety in sport, and I think
Speaker 1: so many safety To your point, it's like, it's not
Speaker 1: that track might not be for you. It might not
Speaker 1: be there for you. It's for you, it's clearly for you,
Speaker 1: but it might not be there for you because the.
Speaker 2: Rules won't allow it to be.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm sure it's hard to have so many
Speaker 1: of your interviews be about this heavy stuff, to be
Speaker 1: about people.
Speaker 2: Who are questioning you.
Speaker 1: I wonder what brings you joy these days if you're
Speaker 1: comfortable sharing other than running.
Speaker 3: Honestly, that's a good question. It's really hard to find
Speaker 3: anything that brings me joy nowadays, because I just think that, like,
Speaker 3: I'm just so obsessed with being the best at what
Speaker 3: I do, even though I'm being casted out. But I
Speaker 3: would say, like, you know, getting my lashes done or
Speaker 3: getting my nails done really is affirming for me and
Speaker 3: it helps me a lot.
Speaker 1: It's truly self Careen your case, we just use that
Speaker 1: as an excuse.
Speaker 3: Us for highlights is been money.
Speaker 2: But for you, it's really it's so affirming.
Speaker 3: So because at the end of the day, if people
Speaker 3: misgendered me every day at my job, and now I
Speaker 3: feel like they're doing it on purpose. When I look
Speaker 3: down on my nails and I go to the bathroom
Speaker 3: for a bathroom break and I look in that mirror,
Speaker 3: I'm like, these bitches could never like I'm sorry, Like
Speaker 3: I look at I'm like, wow, look at her. They're
Speaker 3: just mad. These men are really really just mad because
Speaker 3: they want me so bad and you know that they
Speaker 3: can't have me, so they have to hate me. What
Speaker 3: I tell myself to boost myself and you have to.
Speaker 1: Keep getting those jewel tone dresses the great I'm a
Speaker 1: jewel tone girly too, so I get it.
Speaker 2: Listen, I know, don't try to put me in a pastel.
Speaker 2: It's not gonna work.
Speaker 3: It's not gonna work.
Speaker 2: It's not gonna work jewel tones for me.
Speaker 3: And then just like, honestly, like it really sucks the
Speaker 3: sides struck. But a good workout, like a good pilate session,
Speaker 3: a good sweat session, an AD session makes me feel
Speaker 3: so good because I get my body and I'm like,
Speaker 3: where is the man? Please tell me where is he?
Speaker 3: Because my body is giving top to her right here. Yeah,
Speaker 3: So I just then speak to myself like that. It's
Speaker 3: just I have to blusten myself up like that, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, listen when it comes to those abs, this bitch
Speaker 1: could never I never could and even when I was
Speaker 1: doing track in college, never got that six pack. CC,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming on happy trans Day
Speaker 1: of Visibility. I know it's not always happy for you,
Speaker 1: but we see you and we're so grateful that you
Speaker 1: gave us some time.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: We have to take another break. When we come back,
Speaker 1: we hit you with another What the Fact.
Speaker 2: Welcome back slices.
Speaker 1: It's time for another edition of What the Fact, this
Speaker 1: one in honor of trans Day of Visibility. First a
Speaker 1: quick recap of recent history. So, in the last few years,
Speaker 1: dozens of states have passed legislation barring transgender girls and
Speaker 1: sometimes all transgender kids, from participating in school sports that
Speaker 1: align with their gender identity.
Speaker 2: That created a patchwork of.
Speaker 1: Policies across the United States, with some states banning trans
Speaker 1: kids from participating, while other states followed laws that prohibited
Speaker 1: discrimination based on gender identity, and others still had no
Speaker 1: clear policy, leaving individual schools and conferences to make up
Speaker 1: their own rules. This patchwork became even more modeled a
Speaker 1: few weeks ago when President Trump cited an executive order
Speaker 1: that threatened to restrict federal funding to states that allowed
Speaker 1: transgender girls to compete on girls sports teams. Now, it's
Speaker 1: worth remembering that executive orders are not laws, and some
Speaker 1: states have fought back, like Maine, with Governor Janet Mills
Speaker 1: arguing that Trump's executive order doesn't supersede either the current
Speaker 1: federal law Title nine or Maine's Human Rights Act, which
Speaker 1: prohibits discrimination against transgender athletes. The far right argues that
Speaker 1: these bans are necessary in order to quote unquote protect
Speaker 1: women's sports, and often make claims that transgender girls and
Speaker 1: women are stealing roster spots from CIS girls and women.
Speaker 1: But what does the research actually say about inclusive policies
Speaker 1: and participation? While the Center for American Progress, a public
Speaker 1: policy research institute, examined participation rates and found that in
Speaker 1: states with policies inclusive of transgender girls, all girls were
Speaker 1: more likely to participate in sport. For example, California adopted
Speaker 1: a statewide policy in twenty fourteen allowing transgender kids to
Speaker 1: participate in sports, and in the six years that followed
Speaker 1: up until the pandemic started in twenty twenty, the participation
Speaker 1: rate of high school girls in school sports increased by
Speaker 1: fourteen percent, while the boys participation rate increased by just
Speaker 1: two percent.
Speaker 2: So the next time.
Speaker 1: Year, someone arguing that trans inclusion means stealing spots from
Speaker 1: cisgender girls send them the study.
Speaker 2: We'll link to the.
Speaker 1: Full report in our show notes. This what the fact
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Speaker 1: part of its success to its diverse board seventy eight
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Speaker 1: that diversity, Elf has delivered twenty four consecutive quarters of
Speaker 1: sales growth, the only cosmetics brand to grow market share
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Speaker 2: We love that you're.
Speaker 1: Listening slices, but we want to get you in the
Speaker 1: game every day too, So here's our good game play
Speaker 1: of the day.
Speaker 2: Follow CC on social media.
Speaker 1: She's at cc Telfer on Instagram, and check out her
Speaker 1: book Make It Count, My fight to become the first
Speaker 1: transgender Olympic Runner. We'll link to our ig profile and
Speaker 1: where you can get a copy of her book in
Speaker 1: our show notes. Speaking of books, is it just me
Speaker 1: or has it been a while since I told you
Speaker 1: to pre order my book? Yeah, it feels like it
Speaker 1: just feels like it's been a while. Runs in the
Speaker 1: Family an incredible true story of football, fatherhood, and belonging.
Speaker 2: It's available to pre order now wherever you get your books.
Speaker 1: Nudge, nudge, go, and don't forget to subscribe, rate and review.
Speaker 1: It's easy watch making folks buy a ticket for a baby.
Speaker 1: Rating you serious Clark review with the sweet sixteen upon US,
Speaker 1: and fans of Women's all over the country snaging tickets
Speaker 1: to see their favorite teams. I'm reminded of a story
Speaker 1: recently shared by friend of the show Shimmy Miller, who
Speaker 1: just welcomed a little bundle of joy with wife and
Speaker 1: friend of the show Lisa Byington. The duo brought baby
Speaker 1: Jordan Great Name by the Way to the Big Ten
Speaker 1: tournament earlier this month, and when Lisa entered the arena
Speaker 1: carrying her security stopped and asked for the baby's ticket.
Speaker 1: She laughed and took a step ahead before they assured
Speaker 1: her that they were dead serious. This fresh out the
Speaker 1: woomb infant would need to be a ticket holder. A
Speaker 1: Big Ten staffer came to the rescue, printing out a
Speaker 1: credential for baby Jordan instead.
Speaker 2: So all's well, that ends well.
Speaker 1: But y'all, it's expensive enough to be a parent already,
Speaker 1: Let's not be charging infants who can't even hold their
Speaker 1: own head up for a damn ticket. Hashtag team Jordan.
Speaker 1: Now it's your turn, rate and review. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1: See you next week.
Speaker 2: Good game, CC, good game, Candace.
Speaker 1: Few trans phobes history will judge you harshly, and Karma
Speaker 1: will exact its revenge. Good Game with Sarah Spain is
Speaker 1: an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue
Speaker 1: Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Production by
Speaker 1: Wonder Media Network, our producers are Alex Azzie and Misha Jones.
Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan
Speaker 1: and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Emily Rudder, Brittany Martinez,
Speaker 1: and Grace Lynch. Our associate producer is Lucy Jones and
Speaker 1: I'm Your host Sarah Spain