1 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties, 2 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: the podcast where we talk through some of the big 3 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 1: life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they 4 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:26,120 Speaker 1: mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 1: Welcome back to the podcast, new listeners, old listeners. Wherever 6 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 1: you are in the world, it is so great to 7 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:35,879 Speaker 1: have you here. Back for another episode as we, of 8 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:40,520 Speaker 1: course break down the psychology of our twenties. Worrying about 9 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 1: what other people think about us can take up a 10 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 1: lot of mental real estate. We kind of know that 11 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: we shouldn't care. We know that we are loved, We 12 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:52,199 Speaker 1: know that no one is really watching us that closely. 13 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 1: But for some of us, it's not really a choice. 14 00:00:55,200 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 1: We are overwhelmed by this deep, persistent fear of being perceived. 15 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 1: We're constantly aware of those invisible judgments that others might 16 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 1: be making, what parts of us they might not like, 17 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 1: who we might offend if we say the wrong thing, 18 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: who we make cringe, And it keeps us in this 19 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 1: place of self denial, denial of our true selves, of 20 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 1: our potential, of our ambitions, of our authenticity. And today 21 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:28,839 Speaker 1: I want to talk about it because It's a fear 22 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 1: that is definitely not spoken about enough, despite being something 23 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:36,399 Speaker 1: that a lot of us in our twenties and beyond 24 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:41,039 Speaker 1: manage on a daily basis. Being in this decade of life, 25 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 1: it comes with a lot of insecurity for sure. You know, 26 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 1: it's our first decade of adulthood and we're normally lost, 27 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: We're lonely, maybe we're trying to fit in, and this 28 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 1: fear of being perceived feeds on these worries to make 29 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 1: us feel even more out of place and insecure. What 30 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 1: you may not know is that they're is a lot 31 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 1: more to be said about this than just the typical 32 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 1: explanation that we get of social anxiety or low self confidence. 33 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 1: Our fear of being perceived has its roots in early 34 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:16,639 Speaker 1: experiences of social exclusion, bullying, even perfectionism, and how our 35 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 1: brains process social and emotional information. Learning about this really 36 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 1: helps us accept this reality that has kind of been 37 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: thrust on us right, and with that knowledge comes power, 38 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:31,640 Speaker 1: the power to kind of change the thought loop that 39 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 1: keeps us fearful and withdrawn, and when you break down 40 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 1: the irrational and fear dependent thoughts that keep us trapped 41 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 1: by other people's potential judgments a huge weight is really lifted, 42 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 1: and that's really what I want for you. We're also 43 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 1: going to discuss three powerful mental shifts that I've used 44 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 1: that are backed by research and psychology that can help 45 00:02:56,919 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 1: you overcome your fear of being perceived, from mind games 46 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 1: with your mind games to decentering the opinions of others 47 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 1: through exposure, and also applying one of the greatest cognitive 48 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 1: tricks of all time to essentially stop your anxiety about 49 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:17,960 Speaker 1: other people's opinions before they even begin. There is so 50 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 1: much to talk about, and I also want to explore 51 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 1: what can happen when we do this. What is the 52 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 1: reality of being free from our fear of being perceived? 53 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 1: So much becomes possible. I just think it's something that 54 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 1: a lot of us can't even imagine, but I kind 55 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 1: of want to show you what that might look like. 56 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 1: So there is a lot to unpack in this episode, 57 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: and I know from hearing from all of you that 58 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 1: this is. 59 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 2: Not uncommon in the slightest. So for all of you 60 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 2: who are managing this, dealing with this, this episode is 61 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 2: for you to get that clarity, to feel seen, to 62 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 2: know the psychology, and of course to overcome it. So 63 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 2: without further a too, let's get into how you can 64 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 2: overcome your fear of being perceived. Our fear of being 65 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 2: perceived really comes down to this irrational anxiety around being 66 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:19,719 Speaker 2: observed and scrutinized by others. It's kind of in the name, really, 67 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 2: but this fear is also known as scopophobia, and that 68 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:27,280 Speaker 2: comes from the Greek word scope to be examined, and 69 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:31,799 Speaker 2: of course phobia to fear. Anytime something contains the word 70 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:35,239 Speaker 2: phobia in it, we know that what's really happening below 71 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:40,159 Speaker 2: the surface is anxiety. There is a dysregulated response to 72 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 2: a persistent irrational thought or worry. You might say, you know, okay, scopophobia, Yeah, 73 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 2: it has its own name, but isn't this just social anxiety? 74 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:52,719 Speaker 2: And you would be totally right for thinking that. The 75 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 2: fear of being perceived and social anxiety often go hand 76 00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:00,799 Speaker 2: in hand. But this is more than simple a social 77 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 2: phobia around wanting to avoid being seen by others. It's 78 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 2: also a specific phobia, and specific phobias surround an extreme 79 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:14,039 Speaker 2: fear of a specific situation that poses little to no 80 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 2: danger but makes people really, really anxious. The thing is, 81 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 2: your fear of being perceived can be isolated to just 82 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 2: a single environment, like you may have no trouble public speaking, 83 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 2: hosting parties, even being seen by strangers on the street, 84 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:33,919 Speaker 2: but when it comes to dating, you are incredibly fearful 85 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 2: of what people might think of you on your first 86 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 2: date or on dating apps, so you avoid those situations altogether. 87 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 2: That's a specific trigger for your phobia of being perceived. 88 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:47,919 Speaker 2: Or you may be really confident in every other setting 89 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:51,159 Speaker 2: other than in the workplace or at the gym. That's 90 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:56,040 Speaker 2: why this fear can be very specific in nature. It's 91 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 2: at this point that it's probably important to note that 92 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 2: there are kind of two versions or two varieties to 93 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:04,479 Speaker 2: our fear of being perceived. There is the fear of 94 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 2: being physically perceived taking up space being seen by others, 95 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 2: which is probably the most common, And then there is 96 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 2: the fear of being emotionally perceived, which has more to 97 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 2: do with being seen deeply and intimately by someone else 98 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 2: on a more kind of feeling space level. It's less common, 99 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:26,719 Speaker 2: but it's still a really difficult reality to believe that 100 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 2: if anyone were to truly see you and your character 101 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 2: and to know you, they probably wouldn't want to be 102 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 2: around you anymore. Physical like our fear of physical perception 103 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:41,479 Speaker 2: is more around people making assumptions. Oftentimes though they kind 104 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 2: of go hand in hand, because perception alone isn't scary, right, 105 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 2: It's the judgment that comes next, and that is where 106 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 2: kind of the emotional element comes in. It's not that 107 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:56,719 Speaker 2: we kind of think that someone looking at us is 108 00:06:56,760 --> 00:07:00,280 Speaker 2: inherently dangerous, that their eyes are going to like burn 109 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,159 Speaker 2: holes in our skin, even if it might feel that way. 110 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 2: Sometimes it's what we know. Come second, people make instantaneous 111 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 2: and snap calls around what they think someone is like 112 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 2: within seconds or minutes. And perception is not objective. There 113 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 2: is not one clear way of seeing everything and everyone. 114 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 2: It's objective, so we can't control what they think about us, 115 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 2: whether that is correct or not, and that is often 116 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 2: what is really at the root of this experience. We 117 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 2: don't actually fear the act of being perceived physically. We 118 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:43,560 Speaker 2: fear being judged, and we fear the unknowns that are 119 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 2: contained in those judgments. And here is where we kind 120 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 2: of return to that distinction between fear and anxiety. Fear 121 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 2: is for the present and anxiety is for the possibility. 122 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 2: That's where all the fun is in for our anxiety, right, 123 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 2: our anxiety likes to try to figure out that we 124 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 2: may never know, and that unknown is so scary we 125 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 2: could tastriphize based on the worst case scenario rather than 126 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 2: what is most likely, which is that people pay a 127 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 2: lot more attention to themselves than anyone else. Most people 128 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 2: are actually fairly kind with their judgments, and even if 129 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 2: they aren't, we're still going to be okay. We can 130 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 2: survive someone not liking us based on limited information. We 131 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 2: can survive someone not liking us based on their own insecurities, 132 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 2: because it's not about us anymore. But let's kind of 133 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 2: track back for a second, because there is something crucial 134 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 2: I've missed here. That is, what is it exactly about 135 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:45,080 Speaker 2: those invisible judgments that are so scary for people with 136 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 2: the fear of being perceived? Yeah, so it is the 137 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 2: fact that it is an unknown which our anxiety thrives on, 138 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:54,079 Speaker 2: But it also is a little bit more than that. 139 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 2: Social judgment holds a lot of power because of our innate, 140 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 2: ingrid fear of social disapproval. We don't want others not 141 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 2: to like us. We don't want them to think that 142 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:09,680 Speaker 2: there's something wrong with us. We don't want them to 143 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 2: walk away from meeting us or hanging out and go 144 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:16,079 Speaker 2: and say terrible things that might ruin our reputation or 145 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 2: destroy certain relationships. This is really the case for a 146 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 2: few reasons. Firstly, we kind of fear other's opinions out 147 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:27,320 Speaker 2: of a need to protect our self esteem and to 148 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 2: continue to validate ourselves. We don't want people not to 149 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 2: like us, because that might hurt our sense of self worth. 150 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 2: I think we all know what it's like to be 151 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 2: confronted with an ugly truth about what someone else really 152 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:46,080 Speaker 2: thinks about us. If it's a former friend calling you cringe, 153 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 2: an ex thinking that you're lame or unattractive, you know, 154 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:53,959 Speaker 2: some asshole on the internet from school, whatever. When someone 155 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 2: makes a snight comment about your looks, about any feature 156 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:01,439 Speaker 2: of you, that really hurts. And we want to avoid 157 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 2: that hurt, and we want to avoid the damage that 158 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 2: it does to our self esteem, So we begin to 159 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:09,840 Speaker 2: fear those judgments as a way to avoid them. But 160 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 2: let's dissect that even further. If someone doesn't like you, 161 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 2: then what well for our anxious mind. If people don't 162 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:22,840 Speaker 2: like us, they think we're unattractive, annoying, whatever your primary 163 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 2: insecurity is around being perceived, We worry that as a 164 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:33,560 Speaker 2: secondary consequence of that, we will lose really valuable relationships 165 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:38,200 Speaker 2: or opportunities for connection. That's a really primal instinct you 166 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 2: have going on there. You don't want to be left 167 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 2: out of the group. You want to avoid isolation and 168 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:47,040 Speaker 2: loneliness at all costs, because our ancient brain knows that 169 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 2: could harm us in the long run. Basically, this is 170 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:53,840 Speaker 2: our fear of rejection kind of working in tandem with 171 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 2: our desire for social acceptance and belonging. But actually that 172 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:03,440 Speaker 2: ends up driving a wedge between us and other people anyways, 173 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 2: because we end up, you know, letting this fear drive 174 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 2: us to self isolate, drive us to not put ourselves 175 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 2: out there, to not really connect with people. Which means 176 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 2: that although our fear of being perceived might in our 177 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 2: brains be protecting us from being embarrassed, from being excluded, 178 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 2: from being teased or mocked, and therefore protect our social relationships, 179 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 2: actually it's having the counter effect, and it's meaning that 180 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 2: we tend to close ourselves off from those opportunities anyways. 181 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:43,199 Speaker 2: It's like, if you begin to expect that people won't 182 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 2: like you or will immediately think the worst of you, 183 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 2: why give them the power to even do that when 184 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 2: you can stop that from happening in the first place 185 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 2: by never showing up. You can't be perceived if you're 186 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 2: not present, and so we tend to reduce our anxiety 187 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 2: and our fear by reducing exposure to the trigger, which 188 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:06,440 Speaker 2: is other people or situations where we think we might 189 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 2: be uncomfortable. I think we know all too well that 190 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 2: this avoidance typically backfires, as avoidance always does when it 191 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 2: comes to phobic behavior or anxiety. The less exposure you have, 192 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 2: the more power your fear has, because it begins to 193 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 2: make everything seem worse than your brain and you have 194 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 2: no lived experience to prove otherwise. Like in this example, right, 195 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 2: you believe that if people could perceive you, they would 196 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 2: say something mean or cruel, or would think that you 197 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 2: were embarrassing, and that would result in them not liking you, 198 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 2: bowd mouthing you, having a negative judgment. The outcome of 199 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:49,440 Speaker 2: that is super scary. You can't handle that possibility, and 200 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:51,840 Speaker 2: so you never let it be the case. But in 201 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 2: your efforts to reduce your anxiety, which is a totally 202 00:12:56,160 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 2: natural thing to do because anxiety obviously makes us uncomfortable, 203 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 2: we actually never question or give ourselves the opportunity to 204 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:11,760 Speaker 2: disprove this irrational hypothetical. Worse than that, we never give 205 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 2: ourselves the opportunity to prove to ourselves that we are 206 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 2: capable of feeling judged and pushing forwards anyway. We never 207 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 2: get to prove to ourselves that we are bigger than 208 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:27,839 Speaker 2: what someone may or may not think. We can experience 209 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 2: our worst fear and we can survive it, and we 210 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 2: cannot just survive, but it can fuel us and it 211 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 2: can make us bigger and better, and in some ways 212 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:40,680 Speaker 2: it actually reduces the initial fear that we had. So 213 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 2: what are the consequences of this? Well, I've kind of 214 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:46,319 Speaker 2: seen it in myself, to be honest, in the past, 215 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 2: I remember self abandoning a lot, denying my true self 216 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:54,600 Speaker 2: kind of the opportunity to be vibrant and present, because 217 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 2: the fear was louder than my impulse to express myself 218 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:02,840 Speaker 2: and made me very very small and very very sad. 219 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:06,080 Speaker 2: At first. I remember this very clearly, like I'd be 220 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 2: really excited to i don't know, post a picture online 221 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:12,960 Speaker 2: or to express my opinion, or to go to this 222 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 2: party and talk to people, or even just like create 223 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:19,320 Speaker 2: something cool and interesting and share it, and then this 224 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 2: fear would infiltrate and make all those positive feelings and 225 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 2: all that anticipation, it would wilt it. It would make 226 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 2: it really, really small, and you push down the parts 227 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 2: of you that you think are too much or that 228 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 2: stick out a little bit too much. You avoid situations 229 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 2: that you probably would have enjoyed, and you deny yourself 230 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 2: opportunities because a lot of opportunities do come with perception. 231 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 2: The more successful you become, the more passionate you become, 232 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 2: more people begin to notice you. And of course, if 233 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 2: you can't handle that perception, whyever put yourself in a 234 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 2: position where you could be praised or you could be seen. 235 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 2: I think simply put the desire to fit in and 236 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 2: the paralyzing fear of being disliked. It undermines our ability 237 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 2: to pursue the lives who want to create. The hypothetical 238 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 2: views of people you don't even care about, let alone know, 239 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 2: take on more power than our own intentions and our 240 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:26,840 Speaker 2: own dreams. It's really interesting because, as one person put 241 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 2: it to me, it's kind of like you put a 242 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 2: wall between you and the world, and you both resent 243 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:36,920 Speaker 2: that wall, but you also rely on it at the 244 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 2: same time. At an extreme, our fear of being perceived 245 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 2: can cause us to panic and experienced heightened levels of 246 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 2: social anxiety, terror, dread, shortness of breath, shaking, the urge 247 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 2: to go and hide, you know. And it's often in 248 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 2: response to specific situations like being introduced to people, being 249 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 2: in large group settings where you feel like you're one out, 250 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 2: being the center of attention. So a question I've definitely 251 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:09,760 Speaker 2: asked myself, and I'm sure you may have as well. 252 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 2: Why do some people have this fear and others don't? 253 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 2: There are people who are just not afraid in the 254 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 2: slightest to exist as their fullest and truer selves, and 255 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 2: we really admire them for that. I'm sure we always have. 256 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 2: We all have someone in mind right now. Maybe it's 257 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 2: like a pop culture figure like a Chapel Row, or 258 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 2: like a performer or an idol of ours, or even 259 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 2: a friend who just seriously has no just doesn't have 260 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 2: that war, doesn't have that war between them and the world. 261 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 2: So why exactly is it the case that we do? 262 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 2: Where does this fear, where does this worry of being 263 00:16:55,640 --> 00:17:04,160 Speaker 2: perceived truly come from? Firstly, our fear of being perceived 264 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:08,879 Speaker 2: is really closely linked to of course, social anxiety and 265 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 2: anxiety in general, as most social and specific phobias are. 266 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 2: What I really want people to know is that social 267 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 2: anxiety is more than just shyness. It's more than just introversion. 268 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:22,159 Speaker 2: It's actually a complex difference in how our brains are 269 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:28,200 Speaker 2: reacting to our environment, including social interactions, and specifically how 270 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:31,040 Speaker 2: they're wired to absorb this information and the meaning that 271 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 2: they apply to it. Mainly, social anxiety and with its scopeophobia, 272 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:39,440 Speaker 2: is attributed to a dysfunction in the hippocampus, the amygdala, 273 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 2: and the areas of our brain that process emotion, meaning 274 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 2: that there is a lot more activity in those specific regions, 275 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:51,800 Speaker 2: making us feel more attuned to small moments, small cues 276 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:54,879 Speaker 2: that are that are kind of seen through like a 277 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:58,640 Speaker 2: fearful lens. That's the easiest way to put it. There 278 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:02,360 Speaker 2: are a lot of neural mechanis that are simply different 279 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:09,119 Speaker 2: between people with social anxiety and people scripophobia and people 280 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:13,680 Speaker 2: without it, and those neural mechanisms are caused by both 281 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:17,879 Speaker 2: genetics and our environment. But I think it's important that 282 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:21,200 Speaker 2: we acknowledge the neural and biological mechanisms controlling this fear. 283 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 2: At the very top of this because especially when maybe 284 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:29,240 Speaker 2: we encounter someone who just doesn't quite understand where our 285 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:32,479 Speaker 2: feel comes from, they really need to know, and I 286 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,159 Speaker 2: hope that they do know that a lot of it 287 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 2: is not really within our choice. It's not something that 288 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 2: we have opted into. Actually, it's the way that we 289 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 2: are built. It's why we also kind of see people 290 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:49,640 Speaker 2: who care so little about others' opinions and they possess 291 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 2: zero self awareness because they don't have that same neural 292 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:59,440 Speaker 2: makeup and that those same kind of cross activations between 293 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:02,639 Speaker 2: different of their brains. That mean when they see a 294 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 2: social situation, when they see the potential for being judged, 295 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:08,960 Speaker 2: their fear centers kind of light up. They are hyper 296 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 2: aware there is none of that going on, And it's 297 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:15,360 Speaker 2: kind of like the opposite side of the coin here, 298 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:20,160 Speaker 2: like it's equally as confronting to see someone who genuinely 299 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:26,120 Speaker 2: doesn't care to a fault. But scopophobia can also arise 300 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:30,159 Speaker 2: from something really upsetting or traumatic that has happened at 301 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:37,679 Speaker 2: some point in your life, especially during childhood, especially around bullying, exclusion, isolation, 302 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:42,720 Speaker 2: public humiliation. Those events and situations can be actually quite 303 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:48,360 Speaker 2: shocking and very intense, and so they leave a lifelong imprint, 304 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 2: and they cause behavioral and emotional changes. Actually, in some 305 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 2: forty to sixty percent of cases of scopophobia, people are 306 00:19:56,640 --> 00:20:00,760 Speaker 2: able to trace their fear back to a at event 307 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:04,719 Speaker 2: or a specific time in their lives when they were 308 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 2: really going through it, when they were really socially ostracized 309 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 2: or isolated. These situations can make us increasingly hyper aware, 310 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:19,479 Speaker 2: firstly of how others see us, because we're trying to 311 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 2: anticipate a situation where our biggest fears could be realized. Again, 312 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 2: we already know what this feels like. We didn't like it, 313 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:31,400 Speaker 2: and so we try and avoid anything that reminds us 314 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 2: of a previous time when we were judged, when we 315 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:37,439 Speaker 2: were bullied, when we were excluded. And I do want 316 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:40,919 Speaker 2: to highlight bullying as an example here because it's definitely 317 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:42,800 Speaker 2: one that resonates with me a lot, as like a 318 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 2: kid who was bullied. I know. I always say that 319 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:48,960 Speaker 2: I think children like that actually end up becoming quite 320 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:53,359 Speaker 2: interesting people because they learned to not I guess, not 321 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:56,320 Speaker 2: rely on the external validation of others. But it can 322 00:20:56,359 --> 00:21:01,399 Speaker 2: also make us go the complete opposite way, where that 323 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 2: external validation of others becomes all we can think about 324 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 2: if you went through childhood knowing what it felt like 325 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:11,119 Speaker 2: to be teased constantly, to have those whispers kind of 326 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:14,879 Speaker 2: follow you around online, in person, and then you tried 327 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:18,919 Speaker 2: your hardest to avoid that experience by wearing the clothes 328 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:21,680 Speaker 2: that made you fit in, by staying out of the way, 329 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:27,400 Speaker 2: by appeasing your bullies, and still finding that you couldn't 330 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 2: escape it. That pain is not something that you easily forget, 331 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:35,119 Speaker 2: and so even as you age, it doesn't go away. 332 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:39,159 Speaker 2: Memories like that are interesting because from an evolutionary perspective, 333 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,240 Speaker 2: they're meant to help us, but they also contribute to 334 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:46,359 Speaker 2: trauma and PTSD, and in a paper published in twenty eleven, 335 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 2: research has showed that harmful painful memories typically actually have 336 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:56,119 Speaker 2: greater recall than positive memories from around the same time. 337 00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 2: So it's not like you can just forget and move on. 338 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:02,199 Speaker 2: That's like saying, oh, can you please forget what your 339 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:04,720 Speaker 2: best friend's name is? Can you forget what your first 340 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 2: day of school was like? Can you forget your graduation? 341 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:09,640 Speaker 2: Can you forget the many times that you didn't feel 342 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 2: like you belong? Can you forget the way that people's 343 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 2: judgments made you feel of course we can't. It's ingrained 344 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:19,680 Speaker 2: in us. It's a permanent kind of fixture of our 345 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:23,879 Speaker 2: past and in some ways, of our identity. The behaviors 346 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 2: surrounding our fear of being perceived, scrutinized, judged are actually 347 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:35,400 Speaker 2: based on this understanding. They become defensive based on previous experiences. 348 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:38,560 Speaker 2: The possibility of going through that situation once more is 349 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:40,959 Speaker 2: so confronting that we learn what we need to do 350 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 2: to avoid it from happening. And often how we avoid 351 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 2: it from happening is to just avoid social situations. We've 352 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:54,919 Speaker 2: kind of already talked about how that can sustain this 353 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 2: fear of being perceived even longer. But you know, if 354 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:01,480 Speaker 2: it's all you're trying to do to survive, if it 355 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,960 Speaker 2: makes you feel better in the moment, sometimes it's hard 356 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:08,359 Speaker 2: not to do those things. It's hard not to, you know, 357 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:13,160 Speaker 2: both deeply crave social approval and also be deeply terrified 358 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:16,800 Speaker 2: of it. I hope that explanation makes some sense. I 359 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:20,359 Speaker 2: also read a really fascinating article from disability rights activists 360 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:24,119 Speaker 2: that people with physical disabilities are also more likely to 361 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 2: have a deep rooted fear of being perceived because of again, 362 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:32,200 Speaker 2: past experiences of being mocked, being pointed at, feeling those 363 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 2: eyes on them in public wherever they go, that constant 364 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:39,640 Speaker 2: recognition that you're being watched, or that people have these 365 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:43,919 Speaker 2: private thoughts about you. I just that would be so 366 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:47,640 Speaker 2: much to manage. It would just be exhausting and very 367 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 2: very loud. The final thing that we have to briefly 368 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 2: discuss here is actually perfectionist, which you may be surprised 369 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 2: to hear come up in this kind of episode, But 370 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 2: what we know about the fear of being perceived and 371 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:06,160 Speaker 2: what we know about perfectionism actually confirms that they are 372 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:12,720 Speaker 2: related in some very intuitive ways. Perfectionists set extremely high 373 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:17,879 Speaker 2: standards for themselves, and they are often preoccupied with avoiding mistakes, 374 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 2: either social in nature, maybe academic, whatever it is that 375 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:27,120 Speaker 2: they are primarily fixated on. But this also causes them 376 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:32,080 Speaker 2: to become quite obsessed by flaws or imperfections that they 377 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:36,400 Speaker 2: believe will be noticed and criticized by others. The desire 378 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 2: to appear perfect can create a very intense anxiety about 379 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 2: being in the spotlight, even if being in the spotlight 380 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:49,160 Speaker 2: is just being around other people, feeling like their eyes 381 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 2: are on you, feeling like you have their attention, feeling 382 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,439 Speaker 2: like they are going to find that thing that you 383 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 2: already know is wrong with you. Actually, this really interesting 384 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:05,880 Speaker 2: article published in Psychology Today, which I feel like by 385 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,360 Speaker 2: now you guys know is my favorite place for sources 386 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 2: on this. Actually it was published earlier this year, and 387 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 2: it notes that a fear of judgment or disapproval from 388 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 2: others is actually the primary contributing factor to people managing perfectionism, 389 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:24,159 Speaker 2: and it's also one of the primary contributing factors to 390 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 2: people with scopophobia. So, in terms of, like if you 391 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,800 Speaker 2: were to make an organizational chart or I guess, like 392 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 2: a way of categorizing different things that we can be 393 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:40,399 Speaker 2: going through mentally, different fears, different conditions, different whatever. Scopophobia 394 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:44,400 Speaker 2: and perfectionism and a fear of judgment, all of those 395 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 2: three things sit very very closely together. They're probably only 396 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:54,640 Speaker 2: delineated by like a few percentiles. Let's take a step back, though, 397 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 2: because we've kind of been circling around this question for 398 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 2: the entire episode. But why does it even really matter? 399 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:06,560 Speaker 2: Why do people's opinions really matter? And I know we 400 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 2: talked about social disapproval, I know, we talked about belonging. 401 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 2: I know we talked about perfectionism about rejection, but truly, 402 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 2: how life changing is the opinion of someone we may 403 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:20,960 Speaker 2: never speak to again. How life changing is that? How 404 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 2: what does that really have to do with us? How 405 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,159 Speaker 2: is that really going to hurt us? What is it 406 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,440 Speaker 2: about those judgments that feel so important to us? Because 407 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:31,679 Speaker 2: you know, if you wouldn't invite someone into your house, 408 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,400 Speaker 2: why do we let them into our head? The burden 409 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 2: of this fear is kind of thrust so heavily onto us, 410 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 2: whilst the people who you know are judging us, maybe 411 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 2: not judging us, they kind of just get to go 412 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 2: along their merry way. They never know what we're feeling, 413 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,160 Speaker 2: what we're changing, how we're hiding to be less seen. 414 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,160 Speaker 2: And it's costing you your life. And when I say 415 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:58,960 Speaker 2: your life, I mean it's costing you your freedom, your potential, 416 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:03,479 Speaker 2: it's costing you joy, relationships, opportunities, even if it's not 417 00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:06,640 Speaker 2: something that you're consciously choosing. So what we really need 418 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 2: to discuss is how we can break through that wall 419 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:14,200 Speaker 2: that is keeping us separated from a confident, self assured, 420 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,720 Speaker 2: liberated life, where the opinions of others kind of glide 421 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,200 Speaker 2: off us, they don't take up as much mental real estate, 422 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:23,480 Speaker 2: and I really want to help you with that, So 423 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:27,679 Speaker 2: I'm going to give you three powerful exercises and mental 424 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:31,520 Speaker 2: shifts that you can try today to overcome your fear 425 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 2: of being perceived after this shortbreak, stay with us. Our 426 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:43,840 Speaker 2: fear of being perceived is built on a foundation of 427 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:49,439 Speaker 2: irrational thoughts, as most anxious patterns are. The irrational thoughts 428 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:54,120 Speaker 2: associated with our scopophobia sound like this. Everyone is constantly 429 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:58,320 Speaker 2: judging me. People will remember every awkward thing that I do. 430 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:01,880 Speaker 2: If they don't like me, my life is over. If 431 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:05,840 Speaker 2: they don't think I'm funny, charming, good looking, they'll tell 432 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:08,960 Speaker 2: everyone and I'll lose all my friends. If these people 433 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 2: at the party judge me, no one will speak to 434 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:15,679 Speaker 2: me anymore. These beliefs have probably helped you in the 435 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:20,160 Speaker 2: past stay away from situations that you thought were threatening 436 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:24,720 Speaker 2: or made you uncomfortable. But now they're just not useful anymore. 437 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:27,880 Speaker 2: And you know that because you're listening to this episode. 438 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,920 Speaker 2: The easiest way to deal with anxious thoughts like these 439 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:36,639 Speaker 2: is not to try and suppress them, ignore them, or 440 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 2: even overthink your way out of them. It's to play 441 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:43,720 Speaker 2: the game, the game of hypothetical that your anxiety is 442 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 2: so great at every time you think that someone is 443 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:50,960 Speaker 2: judging you tell yourself that they are actually admiring you, 444 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 2: because why can't that be the case? What makes either 445 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:59,480 Speaker 2: of those scenarios more likely than the other. The fear 446 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 2: based and feels more likely because we're used to thinking 447 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 2: that it's true. 448 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:06,040 Speaker 1: But is it? You know? 449 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 2: You might think well, based on past experience, as it is, 450 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 2: But how many more times have people been able to 451 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,480 Speaker 2: perceive you and really loved your outfit or thought that 452 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:20,160 Speaker 2: you were really interesting, or loved your smile and just 453 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:23,760 Speaker 2: not said anything. How many more times have people just 454 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:27,320 Speaker 2: not noticed you at all, never thought about you again, 455 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 2: the same way that you have noticed people or not 456 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 2: noticed people and never thought about them again. There is 457 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:38,880 Speaker 2: this idea in psychology that we pay more attention to 458 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:43,560 Speaker 2: the situations that already confirm bias. For us, the bias 459 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:46,840 Speaker 2: and this situation is everyone is judging me, but it 460 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:50,000 Speaker 2: actually means that we don't see the full spectrum of 461 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 2: all the other times, and that hasn't been the case. 462 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 2: It doesn't matter you know whether that person is judging 463 00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 2: you or not. If you get into the habit of 464 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 2: playing mind games with your mind games, it can be 465 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:05,400 Speaker 2: as simple as hearing that thought pop up, visualizing it 466 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,840 Speaker 2: and having a laugh at yourself, like that's so funny, 467 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 2: What a funny piece of false news. My brain is 468 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,080 Speaker 2: trying to tell me. I have no evidence to suggest 469 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 2: that in this moment, that person is judging me more 470 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 2: than they are admiring me, more than they think that 471 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 2: I am cool or funny or lovely. So that is 472 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:26,480 Speaker 2: our first mental shift, recognizing that you may think you 473 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 2: know what's running through someone's head, but maybe you don't. 474 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,520 Speaker 2: And as always, quite frankly, it's none of your business. 475 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 2: That's their problem. And what kind of a sad, frustrating 476 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,480 Speaker 2: life it would be if this person were to be 477 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 2: judging you, not really knowing you, and if for their 478 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 2: whole life all they do is just see the worst 479 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:48,440 Speaker 2: in someone, If that is what that person's reality is, 480 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:55,080 Speaker 2: How miserable would that be? How just plain dark to 481 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:59,280 Speaker 2: see someone existing and to just have your mind immediately 482 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,560 Speaker 2: find something to scrutinize. What I'm trying to get at 483 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 2: is that it says a lot more about them, and 484 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:07,520 Speaker 2: they have a lot of bigger things to worry about 485 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 2: than what you may or may not be doing, because 486 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 2: their head is probably a really dark, insecure place, and 487 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:19,320 Speaker 2: what a sad reality for them. I also find it 488 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 2: useful if I'm still being met with the persistent thought 489 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,880 Speaker 2: that they're judging me, that they don't like me, to 490 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:30,200 Speaker 2: instead give that to just kind of look at that 491 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:35,560 Speaker 2: hypothetical assessment and instead of being like, I'm going to 492 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:42,000 Speaker 2: internalize their potential hatred of me, their potential disgust or 493 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:44,880 Speaker 2: embarrassment of me, I'm going to assume that that's what 494 00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:48,840 Speaker 2: they're feeling and that's fine, and then I'm just going 495 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 2: to flood them with unconditional love. In my mind, I'm 496 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:56,240 Speaker 2: going to look at this person, I'm going to perceive, 497 00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,720 Speaker 2: think about this person, and I'm just going to imagine 498 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 2: just shooting, like just literally covering them in this big 499 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:09,880 Speaker 2: blanket of empathy and love from me. And it really 500 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:12,719 Speaker 2: does help you be like, I don't know, I guess 501 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,480 Speaker 2: in my mind, I'm just like, it helps you see 502 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:18,360 Speaker 2: that this person might be thinking the worst in you 503 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:23,760 Speaker 2: and still going beyond not caring, being so defiant that 504 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:27,600 Speaker 2: you still decide to give them love and you still 505 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:31,880 Speaker 2: decide to give them empathy what they're going through and 506 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:36,280 Speaker 2: that act of being the bigger person makes you realize 507 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:40,120 Speaker 2: that this person is not inherently better than you, not 508 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:45,040 Speaker 2: inherently doesn't inherently know more than you, their opinion doesn't 509 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:50,200 Speaker 2: inherently mean more than yours, because you're still here showing 510 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:54,680 Speaker 2: this great generous gift of loving them, despite the fact 511 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:58,160 Speaker 2: that they could be really cruel to you in their mind. 512 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:02,160 Speaker 2: If that isn't work, I have another mental shift view 513 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:06,440 Speaker 2: and it's called the yes and shift And no it's 514 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,440 Speaker 2: not the Arianagrande song, but honestly it's kind of a 515 00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 2: similar theme. The thing about anxious thoughts is that they 516 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 2: feel quite real because they are like almost identical to 517 00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:22,640 Speaker 2: a real fear, but they're incomplete. They aren't fully formed, 518 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:27,400 Speaker 2: and that's what causes them to feel so scary. This 519 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:29,760 Speaker 2: is the example I always give. It's like if you 520 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 2: would to walk into a house and it looks like 521 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:35,520 Speaker 2: a house from the outside, but the kitchen and the 522 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 2: bedroom had no walls. You'd feel really exposed in a 523 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 2: house like that, And the same goes for an anxious thought. 524 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,520 Speaker 2: When you walk into an anxious thought and it's not 525 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 2: entirely complete or real, you feel exposed to the possibilities 526 00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:55,440 Speaker 2: that could fill those gaps. Like being ostracized, being criticized. 527 00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,719 Speaker 2: Here's how we overcome that. We overcome that by feeling 528 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:03,040 Speaker 2: in theas ourselves before we let our anxiety do it 529 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:07,240 Speaker 2: for us, using our yes and method. So, say you're 530 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:09,040 Speaker 2: at a party and you think someone is smirking at 531 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,799 Speaker 2: you or your behavior, or cringing at you talking to 532 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:15,000 Speaker 2: their friends about you. In your brain, everything is probably 533 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:18,280 Speaker 2: a light and alive and rushing and scary and freaky, 534 00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:21,920 Speaker 2: and you're probably thinking, they don't like me. Now, what 535 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,279 Speaker 2: I want you to do here is except that, yeah, 536 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:26,480 Speaker 2: maybe they don't like you. And then I want you 537 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:30,480 Speaker 2: to add an end onto that sentence, they don't like me, 538 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:35,560 Speaker 2: and I'll be okay. Anyways, they don't like me, and 539 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:37,839 Speaker 2: I know my friends love me, so I'm not too 540 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:41,680 Speaker 2: fussed by that they don't like me, and I'll never 541 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 2: see them again, so really that's fine by me. Don't 542 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:51,840 Speaker 2: let your fear grab onto that emptiness, that unknown space, 543 00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:56,320 Speaker 2: that uncertainty and spiral, because if you let your fear 544 00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:59,719 Speaker 2: take over the end, it will sound something like they 545 00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:02,080 Speaker 2: don't like me, and that means that everyone at this 546 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:04,560 Speaker 2: party doesn't like me, and that means that maybe I 547 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,560 Speaker 2: shouldn't leave, so you kind of get where that ends 548 00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:10,160 Speaker 2: up taking you. It takes you into a place of 549 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,880 Speaker 2: withdrawal and isolation, meaning you never face the fear. But 550 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:16,640 Speaker 2: what we really need to do is condition our mind 551 00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,279 Speaker 2: to make peace with our fear of being perceived by 552 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:24,600 Speaker 2: replacing the worst case scenario that we so quickly jumped 553 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:29,360 Speaker 2: to with a reaffirming statement or conclusion that really builds 554 00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:32,880 Speaker 2: us up, that decenters the opinion of this other person, 555 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:37,360 Speaker 2: and that makes us feel confident in whatever circumstance is 556 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:41,239 Speaker 2: about to occur. Our final mental shift that we're going 557 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:45,000 Speaker 2: to discuss, I've come to call the mastery shift, and 558 00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:49,200 Speaker 2: it's based on principles of exposure therapy that are very 559 00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:53,759 Speaker 2: often used to desensitize people with phobia from their fears, 560 00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:55,640 Speaker 2: and it's used for things like a fear of snakes, 561 00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:58,719 Speaker 2: a fear of planes, fear of bees, and we can 562 00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:02,040 Speaker 2: use it for a fear of being perceived. So this 563 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:04,600 Speaker 2: is what I want you to do. I want you 564 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:08,240 Speaker 2: to make a list of ten things that your fear 565 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:12,759 Speaker 2: of being perceived is preventing you from doing, and I 566 00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,160 Speaker 2: want you to order that list from the thing that 567 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,359 Speaker 2: you are most afraid to do that you cannot even 568 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,840 Speaker 2: imagine doing in a million years, to the thing you 569 00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:25,759 Speaker 2: feel a little bit worried about, but you could try 570 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:29,719 Speaker 2: tomorrow with enough support, with enough affirmations, with a really 571 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:33,120 Speaker 2: good dose of confidence. So I'll give you some examples 572 00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:35,840 Speaker 2: of what could be on that list, Starting really small. 573 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:39,640 Speaker 2: It could be recording like a short video of yourself 574 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:43,040 Speaker 2: talking about a topic and watching it back. It could 575 00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:45,960 Speaker 2: be posting something you really want to post on social 576 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:49,480 Speaker 2: media on a private account. Wearing an outfit that's bright 577 00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:53,440 Speaker 2: or more out there than usual on public transport, Wearing 578 00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:55,720 Speaker 2: something that you know that you're shy to wear. Offering 579 00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,920 Speaker 2: to give a small speech at a friend's birthday, Planning 580 00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:00,760 Speaker 2: an event where you're going to be the center of attention, 581 00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:04,359 Speaker 2: like a birthday party, going up to a group at 582 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:08,120 Speaker 2: a party who you don't know in introducing yourself, doing 583 00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:11,839 Speaker 2: a huge presentation at work. What we want to do 584 00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:16,040 Speaker 2: is start small. Start with those really small things, like 585 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:19,440 Speaker 2: posting something on a private Instagram, even if it's like 586 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,880 Speaker 2: for twenty four hours, post a story, post a story 587 00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,839 Speaker 2: to your close friends. Just something really really small. Wear 588 00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:28,719 Speaker 2: that outfit where like the thing that you would never wear, 589 00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:34,200 Speaker 2: and once you can get through that situation without feeling 590 00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:38,920 Speaker 2: truly ghastly or anxious you move on to the next 591 00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:44,160 Speaker 2: We want to build up your tolerance basically to being seen, 592 00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:49,080 Speaker 2: maybe being heard, being watched, perhaps even being judged, by 593 00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:52,480 Speaker 2: showing you that a rarely is the worst case scenario 594 00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:56,120 Speaker 2: going to be the one that happens. B even if 595 00:37:56,160 --> 00:38:00,440 Speaker 2: it is repeat after me, you will be okay. You 596 00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:05,160 Speaker 2: will be okay. And finally, it starts to show you 597 00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:09,160 Speaker 2: the possibility of a life without the fear of being 598 00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:14,040 Speaker 2: perceived being the only thing that is motivating you. Finally, 599 00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:17,680 Speaker 2: and one bonus shift that has helped me immntally in 600 00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:20,600 Speaker 2: the past few years. They didn't really have a name for. 601 00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:24,359 Speaker 2: Let's call it the ideals self to shift is really 602 00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:27,719 Speaker 2: focused on tuning into what do you actually want. I 603 00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,000 Speaker 2: think one of the consequences of a fear of being 604 00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:32,920 Speaker 2: perceived that we haven't spoken about is that we are 605 00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:37,040 Speaker 2: always thinking about how to be less offensive to others, 606 00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:40,520 Speaker 2: what they might expect from us, how to make us 607 00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:45,239 Speaker 2: likable based on their tastes, their views, their ideals. It's 608 00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:49,520 Speaker 2: hugely aligned with people pleasing, but it also disconnects us 609 00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:52,120 Speaker 2: from what we need ourselves and who we want to be, 610 00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:56,400 Speaker 2: because it's all about making others happy. Deprioritize the thoughts 611 00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:59,719 Speaker 2: of others, just for five minutes. What do you think 612 00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:03,560 Speaker 2: about yourself? What do you think about yourself? And is 613 00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:06,879 Speaker 2: that good enough for you such that in five years 614 00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:11,280 Speaker 2: time you would be okay with still being this version 615 00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:16,600 Speaker 2: of you. I really want you to sit with that 616 00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:20,799 Speaker 2: for a second. If no one else was around, who 617 00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:24,239 Speaker 2: would you be? Would you like this version of you? 618 00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:26,640 Speaker 2: How would you dress? How would you go about your 619 00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:30,880 Speaker 2: daily life? What is your potential? And what's stopping you 620 00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:34,640 Speaker 2: from being those things? Right now now, I want you 621 00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:38,200 Speaker 2: to think about what things you'd like to change, and 622 00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:41,839 Speaker 2: I want you to kind of decide which of those 623 00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:43,960 Speaker 2: things that you are hell bent on changing or you 624 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:47,680 Speaker 2: think would make you happy are based on what you 625 00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:51,040 Speaker 2: think other people expect from you and what you need 626 00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:54,120 Speaker 2: to change for their approval. And then I also want 627 00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:57,120 Speaker 2: you to acknowledge what you want to change, because you 628 00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:00,160 Speaker 2: want to what do you want to change for your 629 00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:04,880 Speaker 2: the life that is yours? And when you look at 630 00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:08,160 Speaker 2: those two columns of things that you feel you need 631 00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:10,040 Speaker 2: to change or who you need to be, and you 632 00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:11,520 Speaker 2: see the things that you feel you need to be 633 00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:13,800 Speaker 2: for others, and you see the things that you feel 634 00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:15,840 Speaker 2: the need to be and you want to be for yourself. 635 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:20,680 Speaker 2: Any time you find yourself focusing too much on that 636 00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:24,880 Speaker 2: left hand column, I want you to shift back to 637 00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:29,280 Speaker 2: the right concentrate all of your energy on that second column. 638 00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:32,640 Speaker 2: What I want for me, the life I want for me, 639 00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:36,440 Speaker 2: the person I can become with that this fear, and 640 00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:38,960 Speaker 2: keep it as a reminder for when you're worrying or 641 00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:42,600 Speaker 2: obsessing over what someone does or doesn't think about you. 642 00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:46,719 Speaker 2: Because you are the center of all your experiences, of 643 00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:50,239 Speaker 2: your whole universe. You're the one that matters here, and 644 00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:53,040 Speaker 2: I want you to be fiercely devoted to being your 645 00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:56,399 Speaker 2: truest self, even if it feels selfish or like you're 646 00:40:56,400 --> 00:41:00,719 Speaker 2: disappointing others. This is a muscle. Healing from our fear 647 00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:04,440 Speaker 2: of being perceived is a muscle. It's a skill, and 648 00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:06,560 Speaker 2: it's one of the greatest skills we can learn because 649 00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:10,440 Speaker 2: it will transform your life. Please hear me when I 650 00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:13,520 Speaker 2: say this. It's hard, it feels unnatural when you have 651 00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:18,560 Speaker 2: been in this fearful state for so long, But just 652 00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:21,600 Speaker 2: the sense of freedom that you're one day going to 653 00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:24,960 Speaker 2: have makes it so worth it. I really don't think 654 00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:28,279 Speaker 2: that you need to be this fearful for the rest 655 00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:30,760 Speaker 2: of your life. Even if you feel like right now 656 00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:34,319 Speaker 2: this fear is protecting you, or that it's useful or 657 00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:37,120 Speaker 2: it's helpful, I think you kind of know that it's 658 00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:40,080 Speaker 2: no longer the case because you're here and you're listening 659 00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:43,000 Speaker 2: to this episode and you want to change your life. 660 00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:45,200 Speaker 2: And I think that that is something that once you 661 00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:49,200 Speaker 2: are committed to, once you deprioritize the opinions of others, 662 00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:54,160 Speaker 2: once you find the mental shift, the mental game that 663 00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:57,839 Speaker 2: works for you, it all becomes possible. So thank you 664 00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:00,919 Speaker 2: so much for listening to today's episode. I do really 665 00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:03,560 Speaker 2: hope that you enjoyed it. I hope that you learnt something. 666 00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:06,080 Speaker 2: I hope that you can take something away. I hope 667 00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:08,440 Speaker 2: that you can get rid of your fear of being perceived, 668 00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:11,040 Speaker 2: you can toss it out, that you can just look 669 00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:13,759 Speaker 2: at other people as just other people doing their own 670 00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:16,120 Speaker 2: thing the same way that you're doing your own thing, 671 00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:20,200 Speaker 2: and really do the things, do the adventures, do the 672 00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:24,560 Speaker 2: experiences that scare you and that have always scared you 673 00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:26,640 Speaker 2: because of what others might think. And hopefully now you 674 00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:29,600 Speaker 2: don't care. So if there is someone that you know 675 00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:32,480 Speaker 2: who you think might need to hear this episode, please 676 00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:35,000 Speaker 2: feel free to share it with them, Share it online, 677 00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:37,759 Speaker 2: share it on Instagram. You can also DM me if 678 00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:42,239 Speaker 2: you have additional thoughts, feelings, I don't know, hypotheticals, you 679 00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:45,840 Speaker 2: can DM me at that Psychology podcast. We're also taking 680 00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:48,640 Speaker 2: episode suggestions at the moment, and make sure that you 681 00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:52,200 Speaker 2: are following along on Spotify or Apple and give us 682 00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:55,240 Speaker 2: a five star review if you enjoyed this episode. Until 683 00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:58,719 Speaker 2: next time, stay gentle, be kind to yourself, and we 684 00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:00,600 Speaker 2: will be talking very soon. 685 00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:05,800 Speaker 1: MHM.