WEBVTT - Regulate Yourself 0:00:08.520 --> 0:00:11.360 This is the Anxiety Bites podcast, and I am your host, 0:00:11.520 --> 0:00:17.320 Jen Kirkman. Welcome to Anxiety Bites. I am your host 0:00:17.640 --> 0:00:20.480 Jen Kirkman. Now, if you do not have anxiety, this 0:00:20.560 --> 0:00:23.880 is the episode for you, because there are certain truths 0:00:24.840 --> 0:00:29.720 that every human must face or must accept, scientific truths. 0:00:30.440 --> 0:00:33.839 You have a nervous system. It doesn't mean you're nervous, 0:00:34.159 --> 0:00:37.360 It doesn't mean anything. It means you have a nervous system. 0:00:37.400 --> 0:00:41.280 It is the thing that informs your brain of how 0:00:41.320 --> 0:00:46.840 your body is feeling. To put it very I don't know, stupidly, 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:52.159 I guess you know, non scientifically, but our nervous systems 0:00:52.200 --> 0:00:55.080 connect with other people's nervous systems. You can you can 0:00:55.120 --> 0:00:59.760 tell this by the way you feel with working with others, 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:04.280 living with others, in any kind of relationship with another person, 0:01:04.640 --> 0:01:08.920 our nervous systems are always doing a subconscious sniffing out. 0:01:10.880 --> 0:01:12.920 And when we become conscious of what's going on, we 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:15.479 might say things like that person annoyed me, or they 0:01:15.520 --> 0:01:18.319 have a good vibe, or they're not validating me. I 0:01:18.360 --> 0:01:21.440 feel unsafe, you know, or I must run. This really 0:01:21.440 --> 0:01:25.679 feels dangerous. Even when we're talking about attachment styles in 0:01:25.760 --> 0:01:29.200 love All of this comes back to our nervous systems 0:01:29.200 --> 0:01:32.319 are always kind of sussing out the situation, and there 0:01:32.360 --> 0:01:37.039 are times when we may not be regulated. So what 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:40.160 dev and I talked about is an example of a therapist. 0:01:40.400 --> 0:01:44.000 So if you're in therapy for whatever reason and your 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:46.440 therapist comes running in, Oh my god, traffic was bad, 0:01:46.600 --> 0:01:48.600 and you know she's spilling coffee, and she sits down 0:01:48.640 --> 0:01:51.600 that her nervous system in that moment's unregulated. She can 0:01:51.600 --> 0:01:55.760 get it regulated in a few minutes, but you're being 0:01:55.800 --> 0:01:58.200 met with an unregulated energy, which is really not what 0:01:58.280 --> 0:02:02.520 you're paying for, right, So how many times a day 0:02:02.560 --> 0:02:06.760 are we just letting it fly unregulated around others without 0:02:06.760 --> 0:02:09.359 realizing it affects them and now they have to regulate. 0:02:09.400 --> 0:02:12.160 And now if you're in relation, they may need to coregulate, 0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:15.959 which is to kind of help you on a subconscious 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:21.440 level chill the funk out as they maintain their boundary 0:02:21.639 --> 0:02:24.680 and they're regulating. Now, I'm probably not saying any of 0:02:24.680 --> 0:02:26.560 this correctly, So that's why we're just gonna take it 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:29.639 to deb Dana. But again, if you do not have anxiety, 0:02:29.720 --> 0:02:33.320 this episode will fascinate you because it's all about how 0:02:33.360 --> 0:02:36.960 the human brain works and how our nervous system informs 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:40.360 our brain about what we think about certain situations, and 0:02:40.480 --> 0:02:42.720 a lot of times our brain might get it wrong. 0:02:43.000 --> 0:02:45.119 And so what we have to do in those situations 0:02:45.520 --> 0:02:47.440 is say, I know I'm not in any real danger. 0:02:47.480 --> 0:02:51.960 Why am I so triggered or annoyed about this? And 0:02:53.360 --> 0:02:55.280 even if you never figure it out, there's a way 0:02:55.320 --> 0:02:59.000 to begin to regulate your nervous system. And it starts 0:02:59.000 --> 0:03:04.800 with curiosity, and Deb takes me through something that I 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:06.840 think will be a really good example for you of 0:03:07.480 --> 0:03:10.720 a situation I found myself in recently. How it makes 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:13.120 me feel. Deb explains what's going on in my nervous 0:03:13.120 --> 0:03:15.560 system that I wasn't aware of, and then she shows 0:03:15.600 --> 0:03:19.920 me how to regulate. Again. I find this all very fascinating. 0:03:20.000 --> 0:03:23.960 We only scratch the surface, but let's just get there. 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:26.000 Let's just get to my interview with Deb Dana. Deb 0:03:26.080 --> 0:03:29.639 Dana l c SW as a clinician and consultant specializing 0:03:29.639 --> 0:03:33.080 in working with complex trump. She is one of the 0:03:33.120 --> 0:03:38.480 founders of the poly Vagel Institute dot Org. Deb developed 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:42.720 the Rhythm of Regulation clinical training series and lectures internationally 0:03:43.040 --> 0:03:46.960 on ways that polyvagel theory informs work with trauma survivors, 0:03:47.200 --> 0:03:51.000 and we do talk a little bit about trauma survivors 0:03:51.080 --> 0:03:54.200 as well towards the end of the episode. Deb is 0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:58.600 the author of tons of books. A lot of them 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:05.560 are for clinicians therapists, but her newest book is really 0:04:05.640 --> 0:04:09.200 for the everyday person and it teaches you everything that 0:04:09.240 --> 0:04:11.240 we're going to talk about in this episode and more 0:04:11.960 --> 0:04:15.680 about how to anchor your nervous system. Again, you don't 0:04:15.760 --> 0:04:17.719 have to have anxiety for this to be a thing. 0:04:18.760 --> 0:04:22.039 Her new book is called Anchored, How to be Friend 0:04:22.160 --> 0:04:25.960 your Nervous System using poly vengel Theory. It came out 0:04:25.839 --> 0:04:30.640 in so I talked to the by the way beautifully 0:04:30.680 --> 0:04:35.240 regulated Deb Dana. She's regulated. I'm coming and regulated. She's 0:04:35.279 --> 0:04:40.920 got good vibes. This is a super fun chill I think, 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:48.240 very calming conversation. So please enjoy my chat with the 0:04:48.360 --> 0:04:56.240 very regulated Deb Dana. When I'm looking at the book Anchored, 0:04:56.560 --> 0:04:59.440 it seems different than some of your other work and 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:04.400 that it's real, really geared towards the lay person. And 0:05:04.480 --> 0:05:07.000 I'd love to know your thoughts and why it is 0:05:07.040 --> 0:05:11.320 so important that everybody, not just smarty pants people who 0:05:11.400 --> 0:05:16.480 study this we're living. Why everybody needs to understand our 0:05:16.560 --> 0:05:19.040 nervous systems, and as you say, how to befriend your 0:05:19.080 --> 0:05:23.080 nervous system using polyvagal theory wise is important. Yeah, it's 0:05:23.160 --> 0:05:25.560 it's it's a lovely place to begin. And I loved 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:29.240 it when you said, you know, nervous systems connected globally, 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:32.560 because I do think this is such a fascinating time 0:05:32.600 --> 0:05:35.160 to be thinking about about that. So I just wanted 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:37.599 to stop there for a minute and take that in 0:05:37.760 --> 0:05:41.680 that you know, we're connected nervous system to nervous system 0:05:41.680 --> 0:05:44.240 around the world. This is a fascinating thing to to 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:47.800 to think about and one of the reasons why I 0:05:47.839 --> 0:05:51.800 think every human should understand how this part of our 0:05:51.800 --> 0:05:55.800 biology works. Right, the nervous system is the common denominator 0:05:55.839 --> 0:05:59.480 and our human experience, we all have one. It works 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:03.960 along these three basic organizing principles that Steve Forre just 0:06:04.160 --> 0:06:08.400 developed in polyvagal theory. And you know, I you know, 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:10.359 I'm a I'm a clinician, and so I've written a 0:06:10.400 --> 0:06:13.640 lot for other clinicians, and then you know, really want 0:06:13.680 --> 0:06:16.000 to write for what I call curious human beings, right, 0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:21.760 the general audience, because in my work as a therapist, 0:06:21.800 --> 0:06:24.159 I really believe that part of my job is to 0:06:24.200 --> 0:06:28.480 help my clients understand what's happening so that they can 0:06:28.760 --> 0:06:33.600 manage the the everyday experiences and the ordinary ones and 0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:37.479 even some of the more extraordinary ones without depending on 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:41.120 me as a therapist. They understand how their nervous system 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:43.120 works so that they could begin to work with it, 0:06:43.160 --> 0:06:45.440 because that's what we do. We have to understand how 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:48.200 something works so that we can begin to then shape 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:51.040 it in in the way we want. So that's really 0:06:51.080 --> 0:06:54.640 my reason for writing Anchored and for for moving out 0:06:54.680 --> 0:06:58.480 into a more general audience, because you know where this 0:06:58.520 --> 0:07:01.720 sort of is the the car we're driving through life, right, 0:07:02.160 --> 0:07:05.039 and we should understand how it works. And you know, 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:08.040 I think I think that's part of our our our 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:13.360 human responsibility is to understand why am I behaving this way, 0:07:13.400 --> 0:07:15.640 responding this way, thinking this way? How am I in 0:07:15.720 --> 0:07:19.560 this story? Because if I understand how I got here, 0:07:19.680 --> 0:07:22.080 then I can understand how to move out of here 0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:26.680 and find another more regulated place. So that's I think 0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:30.680 the call to action is to understand and to be 0:07:30.840 --> 0:07:34.679 responsible for our nervous systems as we move through the world. 0:07:35.760 --> 0:07:39.040 I'm always trying to appeal to the listener that doesn't 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:41.960 have anxiety but likes to check in with this show 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:46.640 because people can learn so much about their brains, their emotions, 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:49.520 their bodies by the people that I interview. And so 0:07:49.640 --> 0:07:52.440 to the person without anxiety, who might think, well, you know, 0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:57.560 that's great nervous system, that's for the nervous people. How 0:07:57.600 --> 0:08:03.160 does the nervous system come into in everyday life for everybody, 0:08:03.360 --> 0:08:07.360 not even those of us with anxiety? And sometimes I 0:08:07.400 --> 0:08:13.360 think it's a these days, a name that can make 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:16.560 people turn a deaf ear they hear nervous system. I 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:19.040 think they think it's for nervous people. As you said, 0:08:19.040 --> 0:08:22.480 we all have one. And so how give me an 0:08:22.480 --> 0:08:26.800 everyday example. I don't know a family mom, dad, kids, 0:08:26.840 --> 0:08:29.760 mom mom kids whatever, or a couple living together, or 0:08:29.760 --> 0:08:33.400 people at work, how does knowing about your nervous system 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:35.440 help the every day that has really nothing to do 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:38.839 with like they have anxiety and that kind of thing. So, 0:08:39.760 --> 0:08:42.280 you know what, we think it's our brains that are 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:45.600 are running the show, But in fact what happens is 0:08:45.640 --> 0:08:49.040 the nervous system, through the pathways that travel to the brain, 0:08:49.559 --> 0:08:52.960 send information about what's happening in your body to your brain, 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:55.120 and then it's the brain's job to make up a 0:08:55.200 --> 0:08:58.440 story that makes some kind of sense about what's happening 0:08:58.440 --> 0:09:03.000 in the body. Doesn't matter if it's anxiety, if it's overwhelmed, 0:09:03.600 --> 0:09:06.840 if it's depression, or if it's regulation and safety and 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:11.679 calm and happiness. The brain then makes up a story, right, So, 0:09:11.679 --> 0:09:14.800 so I think it's important for us to understand where 0:09:14.840 --> 0:09:17.800 the stories come from the state your The state of 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:21.240 your nervous system creates the story. It's the platform for 0:09:21.280 --> 0:09:25.120 the story. So you know, our nervous systems, yours and mine, 0:09:25.600 --> 0:09:29.360 met about ten minutes ago, and our nervous systems are 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:31.640 getting to know each other. We're getting to know each 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:34.600 other through our conversation. But our nervous systems are having 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:39.480 an experience as well, and that happens moment to moment 0:09:39.600 --> 0:09:43.360 as we move through life on a level below the brain. 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:47.560 Nervous system to nervous system, we are making a decision 0:09:47.640 --> 0:09:50.280 is it safe to connect or not? And that has 0:09:50.360 --> 0:09:54.280 nothing to do with anxiety or depression, you know, anger 0:09:54.440 --> 0:09:58.400 or fear doesn't matter, right, It is all about what 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:01.000 are the cues that are of the systems are sending 0:10:01.040 --> 0:10:04.920 to each other. They're communicating, and that's called neuroception in 0:10:04.960 --> 0:10:08.400 the world of of the nervous system, and neuroception is 0:10:08.440 --> 0:10:12.079 this way the nervous system listens, and it listens inside 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:14.880 our bodies. So it's early morning here, it's my nervous 0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:18.520 systems listening to you know, how am I digesting what 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:21.120 I've had so far? What's my heart rate, what's my 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:24.439 breath like? Right, what's happening in my viscera? And out 0:10:24.480 --> 0:10:28.320 of that information, it's making a judgment is this a 0:10:28.360 --> 0:10:31.439 safe time or an unsafe time? And then it listens 0:10:31.559 --> 0:10:35.240 in the environment. Right. So we just I just had 0:10:34.600 --> 0:10:38.440 a ding from my message because I hadn't turned on 0:10:38.480 --> 0:10:41.600 do not disturb, right, So the environmental cue was one 0:10:41.640 --> 0:10:44.000 of danger, Oh my gosh, you know we're doing this 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:46.800 podcast in my thing. Just think that was like, right, 0:10:47.720 --> 0:10:50.760 And then you said, oh, don't worry, we can edit 0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:54.600 that out. And immediately in this space between the two 0:10:54.640 --> 0:10:56.640 of us, I felt a welcome and a and a 0:10:56.720 --> 0:10:59.920 sense of safety. Right. So it has nothing to do 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:03.720 with whether I have anxiety or I'm an anxious person. 0:11:03.960 --> 0:11:06.840 It simply is this flow that we are always in 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:13.040 um in that inside outside and between neuroceptive experience. This 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:15.800 is great. So and and you know, to everyone listening, 0:11:15.800 --> 0:11:18.120 we're not in studio together, right, We're over a zoom 0:11:18.160 --> 0:11:22.560 type situation. So I'm assuming, I mean, I know the answers, 0:11:22.600 --> 0:11:25.360 I read your book, but I'm assuming the nervous system 0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:30.280 can communicate even across zoom. And can you tell us 0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:33.560 how that would be happening without I know, as you said, 0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:36.840 my words, we're very comforting because I'm a great person. 0:11:37.520 --> 0:11:42.080 But how are our nervous systems communicating wordlessly without even 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:44.840 being in the same room, right, right? And so you're 0:11:44.880 --> 0:11:47.319 saying I'm a great person, you're talking to my brain. 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:51.880 But your your tone of voice, the look on your face, 0:11:52.000 --> 0:11:54.920 the smile, that the engagement with your eyes, the way 0:11:54.920 --> 0:11:59.440 you lean forward to connect, that's communicated by nervous system, right, 0:11:59.559 --> 0:12:03.360 And that's that's the experience. So through our eyes, through 0:12:03.400 --> 0:12:07.280 our our prosody, our tone of voice, through our our 0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:12.359 head movements, through our ears, how we take in information. 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:17.040 These are wired in to our biology. Right. So it's 0:12:17.040 --> 0:12:20.160 not the words you're saying, it's the way you're saying them. 0:12:20.160 --> 0:12:22.400 And we know that we've heard that all along. But 0:12:22.440 --> 0:12:24.720 now we have the science underneath it to say yes, 0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:29.160 it's your your intonation, it's your prosody, and if that 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:32.520 feels welcoming to my nervous system, then I'm going to 0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:36.120 tune into the information and the words. But if it doesn't, 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:39.600 if if for some reason, your tone of voice or 0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:42.840 the look on your face, you know, or the way 0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:46.520 you move is feels unsafe to my nervous system, I'm 0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:47.800 not going to listen to you. I'm not going to 0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:50.600 be able to. Not that I don't want to, but 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:53.840 my biology is going to say no, not safe. And 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:56.360 that happens all the time when we're connecting with people, 0:12:56.440 --> 0:12:58.600 right we don't do you get sometimes like a gut 0:12:58.640 --> 0:13:00.680 feeling about somebody. I don't know why, but I don't 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:03.200 really want to hang around with this person. Or I 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:05.480 don't know why, but I really want to spend more 0:13:05.480 --> 0:13:08.040 time with this person. Yeah, and you know it's there's 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:12.480 an article, very unscientific article. Um what it's saying can 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:14.680 be scientifically proven that the article is a little more 0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:17.800 you know, just fun that I read a few weeks 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:20.280 ago about why some people just rub us the wrong 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:24.360 way and someone else, you know, might say that, oh 0:13:24.440 --> 0:13:27.640 my god, that's the greatest guy ever. And I had 0:13:27.640 --> 0:13:32.920 this experience recently. Um, I don't want to say in listening, 0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:36.920 but I'll just say. It's a work situation where someone 0:13:37.080 --> 0:13:40.320 at my job and they actually don't work in our company. 0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:42.440 They work outside of our company, but they have to 0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:45.760 come in once a day to do something COVID related. Oh, 0:13:45.760 --> 0:13:49.040 I'm just exposing it. And this person annoys me. And 0:13:49.080 --> 0:13:51.000 it is the words they say. Sometimes they don't say 0:13:51.000 --> 0:13:53.160 offensive words, but they just they just have kind of 0:13:53.160 --> 0:13:56.840 an awkward, joking around style that I find aggressive. And 0:13:57.640 --> 0:14:00.800 everyone else loves this person, and I at I'm not 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:05.720 joking when I say it. I get physical anxiety, not 0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:08.240 overwhelming like I need to, you know, lay down, but 0:14:08.400 --> 0:14:11.440 I do get a tense My shoulders go up thinking 0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:15.240 about I've got to see name redacted this morning and 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:20.200 in a minute, and I actually feel physically nervous. Now, 0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:24.640 I don't think that's because I have anxiety and I've 0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:27.800 had a history panic disorder. I think I would be 0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:31.120 that way even if I were an anxiety free person, 0:14:31.280 --> 0:14:36.040 right right, because their their cues of warning that his 0:14:36.120 --> 0:14:39.560 nervous system sends to your nervous system and our nervous 0:14:39.560 --> 0:14:43.560 systems are shaped by our lived experience. Right, So there's 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:49.280 something in that person's way of being that is a 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:52.920 familiar cue of danger to your nervous system and it 0:14:53.040 --> 0:14:58.600 enacts this heightened activated response. Right. I had the same 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:03.800 um experience with a colleague who my brain knew he 0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:07.200 was a very skilled clinician and that he was good 0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:10.960 at what he did, but when we were in team meetings, 0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:13.040 I just wanted to argue with him all the time. 0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:16.200 And I could not figure out what that was, right 0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:18.560 until I was able to take a step back and 0:15:18.640 --> 0:15:21.600 really sit with my nervous system and see what's happening. 0:15:22.000 --> 0:15:25.520 And there was a way he moved and in a 0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:29.960 posture and in a look to his presence that reminded 0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:33.000 me of someone from my past. So it had nothing 0:15:33.040 --> 0:15:36.080 to do with him at all, but but my nervous 0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:40.480 system just felt the familiar cues, and then here I 0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:43.400 was fighting with him all time. Right. And once I, 0:15:44.240 --> 0:15:48.120 once I could get that that awareness, then I could change. 0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:50.920 My nervous system still had that response, but I could 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:54.120 then my brain could say, oh, not fill in the blank, 0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:59.040 and then I could relax. Okay, So that's an interesting point. 0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:03.800 So even you figure out why you have this urge 0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:07.320 to argue with someone that you know is skilled. Once 0:16:07.360 --> 0:16:09.720 you figure that out, you still might have that physical 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:13.720 nervous system reaction even if you're not like feeling it 0:16:13.840 --> 0:16:18.280 so strongly. But you can now make a decision as 0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:22.960 someone with a brain right to not argue. Right, the 0:16:23.400 --> 0:16:26.880 brain can get the information might still be the same 0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:31.520 a less intense body response, but the brain can make 0:16:31.560 --> 0:16:34.920 up a different story. So for you, the question would be, 0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:37.880 as you think back in your history, what are the 0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:40.840 familiar cues that this person gives off? And then to 0:16:40.920 --> 0:16:44.920 kind of explore, Okay, what is it? Right? Yeah, and 0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:47.640 I think with this person, I don't for right now, 0:16:47.640 --> 0:16:49.600 I cannot think of someone specific in my life, but 0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:52.920 it reminds me of just a pattern of a type 0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:57.400 of person that when they're anxious or nervous, they make jokes, 0:16:57.400 --> 0:17:00.240 they may have some boundary problems, and those people make 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:05.320 me just feel icky. But now my brain just has 0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:10.560 to make a choice too. I don't know whatever it's 0:17:10.560 --> 0:17:13.960 going to do, send love and compassion or just say, Jen, 0:17:14.160 --> 0:17:16.520 you know you don't have to physically get anxious this 0:17:16.520 --> 0:17:18.840 this person's no threat and you knew this, but just 0:17:19.080 --> 0:17:22.320 saying it to myself, maybe trying to make it more fun. 0:17:22.359 --> 0:17:24.440 You know, maybe I come in with a different attitude 0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:28.760 and I say something to you know, I don't let 0:17:28.880 --> 0:17:31.439 him start the conversation I come in because it's literally 0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:33.320 a I'm not joking when I say a two minute 0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:36.000 interaction every morning. It's it's just taking a COVID test. 0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:42.520 But but how how hard for your biology to have 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:45.520 that two minute experience every day? And so we want 0:17:45.560 --> 0:17:48.879 to not have to do that. So as you you know, 0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:51.600 you can pre plan because you can think about oh okay, 0:17:51.840 --> 0:17:55.960 and you can feel that move into activation, which is 0:17:55.960 --> 0:17:59.840 sympathetic nervous system that fight and flight a little lengths 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:03.119 a dy angers is in sympathetic right. You can feel 0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:06.280 that activating, and you can turn towards it. This is 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:09.480 the befriending piece. You can turn towards that experience with 0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:12.640 a bit of curiosity and say, oh, I hear that, 0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:16.160 you know, um, and I wonder what else we could 0:18:16.160 --> 0:18:19.639 do this morning. You know, there's a discernment question that 0:18:19.760 --> 0:18:23.359 I use, UM, which I think is really helpful because 0:18:23.359 --> 0:18:26.760 we all have these experiences that make no sense. There's 0:18:26.760 --> 0:18:30.280 an overreaction or an underreaction. So the discernment question, is 0:18:30.720 --> 0:18:34.520 in this moment, in this place with this person, is 0:18:34.560 --> 0:18:38.760 this level of response or this response needed, And so 0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:41.960 you just ask yourself that question. That's inviting your brain 0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:46.400 to partner with your nervous system to be curious about that. 0:18:46.720 --> 0:18:49.359 And sometimes the answer is yeah, I do think it's needed. 0:18:49.680 --> 0:18:51.959 But most of the time, for for many of us, 0:18:52.000 --> 0:18:56.040 it's no, probably that that intensity response does not needed. Okay, 0:18:56.119 --> 0:18:58.600 And then I can partner with my nervousness and say 0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:06.000 thank you for minding me about this pattern that I find. Um, 0:19:06.040 --> 0:19:10.119 what word would you say? That I find difficult or 0:19:10.960 --> 0:19:14.679 just annoying annoying around you? Yeah? Right, thank you for 0:19:14.720 --> 0:19:17.280 reminding me about this pattern that I find annoying. And 0:19:18.240 --> 0:19:21.359 I'm going to anchor in that place of regulation, which 0:19:21.400 --> 0:19:24.919 is ventral in this place of regulations, so that I 0:19:24.960 --> 0:19:29.240 can meet this moment without having to disrupt the flow 0:19:29.280 --> 0:19:31.520 of my day. And and I don't mean to you 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:33.879 harp on this situation too much, but it's it's bringing 0:19:33.960 --> 0:19:36.399 up for me all of the ways that our nervous 0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:40.680 systems are interconnected. So in my past, before I've done 0:19:40.680 --> 0:19:42.600 a lot of work on myself, I was a little 0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:45.240 more of a reactionary person. To put it mildly, so 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:50.080 say gen one point. Oh may have not reacted to 0:19:50.200 --> 0:19:55.800 him in front of him, but I would have gone two, 0:19:56.640 --> 0:20:00.040 I mean zero to a million with a story in 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:03.040 my head after my interaction with him, which would have 0:20:03.040 --> 0:20:06.240 gone something like, my life is hard enough and I 0:20:06.320 --> 0:20:08.520 have to do this first thing in the morning instead 0:20:08.560 --> 0:20:12.440 of blah and being mingming ming ming, and it somehow 0:20:12.600 --> 0:20:17.440 would have gone into how my life sucks and I'm 0:20:17.440 --> 0:20:20.920 not getting what I want in life, in relationships and work. 0:20:20.960 --> 0:20:22.840 I mean, it would have just gone out of control. 0:20:23.359 --> 0:20:29.320 And then I bring that energy to my coworkers. And 0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:31.960 that is what I mean by I heard you say 0:20:32.080 --> 0:20:34.720 that our nervous systems are all interconnected. So now my 0:20:34.880 --> 0:20:38.720 coworkers have to have a nervous system to brain response 0:20:38.760 --> 0:20:42.320 about I'm coming in hot, you know, after this thing 0:20:42.359 --> 0:20:46.439 that really could have dissipated by now. And so I 0:20:46.480 --> 0:20:49.120 think that's is that like a responsibility in a way 0:20:49.160 --> 0:20:51.359 that we all have. They always say, you know, if 0:20:51.359 --> 0:20:53.679 everyone meditated, the world will be a better police. It's 0:20:53.720 --> 0:20:57.600 sort of like if everyone could self regulate and just 0:20:59.240 --> 0:21:02.600 or not take get that way, self regulate or coregulate 0:21:02.680 --> 0:21:05.359 you could still come in hot as you call it. 0:21:05.400 --> 0:21:10.040 You could come in and that sympathetically mobilized chaotic energy 0:21:10.400 --> 0:21:13.840 which their nervous systems are they're going to feel through neuroception, 0:21:14.640 --> 0:21:19.439 but they could understand, oh, I know this is a 0:21:19.480 --> 0:21:23.080 tough thing for Jen every morning, and they could meet 0:21:23.119 --> 0:21:27.840 you with regulation and then you would coregulate back to regulation. 0:21:28.160 --> 0:21:33.000 So it's not simply self regulation. Coregulation is so important, right, 0:21:33.000 --> 0:21:36.000 that's the third organizing principle. We have neuroception we talked about. 0:21:36.040 --> 0:21:39.480 We have hierarchy that we touched on briefly. It gets 0:21:39.560 --> 0:21:43.720 that regulated ventral, it's the sympathetic anxiety anger, and it's 0:21:43.760 --> 0:21:45.960 the dorsal which I don't know if you go there 0:21:46.320 --> 0:21:50.960 that that collapse disconnect, right, and too that's a hierarchy. 0:21:51.000 --> 0:21:54.919 And then we have coregulation. We humans need to have 0:21:55.080 --> 0:21:59.399 other humans to coregulate with. And so that morning, you know, 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:03.919 test is not a coregulating moment for you. Where is 0:22:03.960 --> 0:22:07.119 a coregulating moment that you can have either before or 0:22:07.160 --> 0:22:10.640 after it. That's really what we're looking for. And this 0:22:10.720 --> 0:22:16.240 brings up so many things about relationships, friendships, romantic relationships, whatever, 0:22:16.760 --> 0:22:20.360 where if you are with good people that you can trust, right, 0:22:20.480 --> 0:22:23.639 they will co regulate with you. So it's absolutely true, 0:22:23.880 --> 0:22:27.240 I hope in a non dumping things on them way. 0:22:27.320 --> 0:22:29.600 I have tried to make it funny and told my 0:22:29.680 --> 0:22:32.480 work friends, I don't want this guy annoys me and 0:22:32.520 --> 0:22:34.399 it's it's sort of a funny joke. They tease me 0:22:34.440 --> 0:22:38.719 about it and it's fun, but they do know that 0:22:38.800 --> 0:22:44.200 it actually does touch off something where uh, for me, 0:22:44.440 --> 0:22:48.560 it's just about like I'll give you so that people 0:22:48.560 --> 0:22:50.320 don't think I'm completely out of my mind and this 0:22:50.359 --> 0:22:53.240 is completely out of nowhere. But in my other life, 0:22:53.320 --> 0:22:55.840 I'm a stand up comedian and this person found out 0:22:55.920 --> 0:22:58.120 so for me, a lot of times when men find 0:22:58.160 --> 0:23:02.520 out I'm a comedian, they whatever they do, it makes 0:23:02.520 --> 0:23:05.760 them want to be funny, and that's fine. I don't 0:23:05.800 --> 0:23:08.119 need that. I'm not really interested in people being funny 0:23:08.160 --> 0:23:14.640 around me. And it is a thing where I can 0:23:14.680 --> 0:23:16.480 get very angry at men because I think it's a 0:23:16.520 --> 0:23:19.680 gendered thing. I think sometimes they try to be funnier 0:23:19.720 --> 0:23:21.719 than the woman to prove themselves, and I think some 0:23:21.880 --> 0:23:26.200 most people have a tendency to go mean with their humor. 0:23:26.320 --> 0:23:28.040 So he might make fun of what I'm wearing. It's 0:23:28.200 --> 0:23:31.080 that kind of thing where it's like, oh, he's representing 0:23:31.119 --> 0:23:34.159 this cultural force that I'm very exhausted by. And so 0:23:34.560 --> 0:23:37.520 my friends at work understand there's actually something kind of 0:23:37.560 --> 0:23:41.480 deeper underneath this. But you know, they're also not going 0:23:41.520 --> 0:23:45.200 to coddle me because I need to handle my ship. 0:23:45.359 --> 0:23:48.439 So so it's this wonderful coregulation that I get from 0:23:48.480 --> 0:23:51.120 them where they're like, I'm sorry, but then we laugh 0:23:51.160 --> 0:23:54.320 about it, right, And it is fascinating what you just 0:23:54.480 --> 0:23:58.280 you know, talked about because your nervous system um is 0:23:58.359 --> 0:24:02.760 responding to this other nervous system and then from that 0:24:02.920 --> 0:24:06.359 state of um sympathetic, a bit of it felt like 0:24:06.400 --> 0:24:09.880 a bit of anger along with the anxiety. So that's 0:24:09.880 --> 0:24:14.560