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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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Speaker 2: Galaxy Digital and its founder Mike Novograts have been a

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Speaker 2: major force in the push by crypto into mainstream finance.

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Speaker 2: Digital asset treasuries dats are the latest example, with an

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Speaker 2: astounding eighty five and counting announced this year. They've raised

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Speaker 2: billions from investors everywhere from the US to the Gulf

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Speaker 2: to Asia. Galaxy among the top investors over the past

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Speaker 2: six months. It's helped lead fundraising round for Forward Industries

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Speaker 2: one point six billion dollars Solana Treasury. It's the largest

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Speaker 2: for that token. Forward share surged on the news, up

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Speaker 2: now more than five hundred percent so far this year.

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Speaker 3: Let's bring in.

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Speaker 2: Galaxy Digital founder and CEO, Mike Novagrats, who's going to

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Speaker 2: be hanging out with us for quite a bit of

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Speaker 2: time during the show. Mike, Always appreciate your time. Always

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Speaker 2: good to see you. We're going to talk about Solana

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Speaker 2: in just a minute. First, though, I just want to

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Speaker 2: get your commentary on what's happened in the last forty

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Speaker 2: eight hours with the selloff and the volatility that we

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Speaker 2: have seen. How do you explain it?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, listen, there are a few things that happened.

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Speaker 3: One.

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Speaker 1: Crypto had a pretty awesome few months, right. I mean,

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Speaker 1: Ethereum went up almost three x, Solana went up a ton,

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Speaker 1: and so market's at one point get a little bit long,

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Speaker 1: and it takes just a little bit for people to

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Speaker 1: get nervous and some of the leverage to come out.

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Speaker 1: We saw what it looked like some big Chinese mining selling.

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Speaker 1: You also had you know Arthur Hayes, who's one of

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Speaker 1: the real thought leaders around crypto. He put out a

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Speaker 1: pretty bearish commentary around hyper Liquid. Hyper Liquid is the

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Speaker 1: only token in the top ten that didn't exist a

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Speaker 1: few years ago. Right. It's a decentralized version of binance,

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Speaker 1: if you want to think about it. And it's a

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Speaker 1: pretty spectacular story with the amount of growth it had.

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Speaker 1: And Arthur said, hey, wait a minute, I think it's

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Speaker 1: gone too far. The founders are going to sell, and

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Speaker 1: so hyper liquid really got hit the hardest, and that

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Speaker 1: I think kind of hit some of the overall element

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Speaker 1: in the market. And so I think this is just

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Speaker 1: a pullback. You know, Crypto has been kind of soft.

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Speaker 1: Bitcoin's been kind of soft because a lot of the

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Speaker 1: action moved away from bitcoin. But if you had told

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Speaker 1: someone four months ago that you're going to be nervous

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Speaker 1: with bitcoin at one twelve, they would have a big

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Speaker 1: grin on their face, right, And so you have to

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Speaker 1: keep things in context. We're still up significantly on the

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Speaker 1: year of both bitcoin Ethan and solon them.

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Speaker 5: Speaking of keeping things in context, a lot of people

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Speaker 5: have been saying that crypto price movement can foretel stock

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Speaker 5: prices as well. More broadly, you know, it's like a

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Speaker 5: leading asset class.

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Speaker 6: Do you subscribe to that? Do you believe that?

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Speaker 4: Ah, I'm not sure.

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Speaker 1: Listen, I think sometimes it feels leading and sometimes it

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Speaker 1: feels lagging. We are in a euphoric moment in stocks,

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Speaker 1: and there is a lot of excitement all around this

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Speaker 1: AI theme.

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Speaker 4: AI is powerful. It is going to change the way

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Speaker 4: we do things.

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Speaker 1: I was literally just in a meeting with my management

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Speaker 1: team talking about aiad galaxy, and every single C suite

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Speaker 1: in the world is having that same conversation, and so

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Speaker 1: that creates bubble like excitement. And we've got valuations in

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Speaker 1: the in the NASDAC and the S and P as

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Speaker 1: high as we see them, and so it's a really

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Speaker 1: hard market because it's got husu momentum and excitement around

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Speaker 1: a real story. But it's got valuations that get you

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Speaker 1: really nervous. And the interconnectivity of the video, open ai oracle,

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Speaker 1: the vendor financing, you know, web that gets you nervous,

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Speaker 1: like valuation creating more valuation. And so I think you've

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Speaker 1: got a market that's that's nervous. That doesn't mean it's

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Speaker 1: not going to go a lot higher. Right The last

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Speaker 1: the last leg of great markets always surprises people and

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Speaker 1: how powerful it can be.

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Speaker 4: And I'm not saying this is the last leg, but

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Speaker 4: it very well could be.

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Speaker 2: So if you're looking at that in terms of the

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Speaker 2: equity market right now, how does that translate over to

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Speaker 2: the way you're thinking about crypto and where we could

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Speaker 2: be in the cycle when it comes to crypto right now,

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Speaker 2: and not every token is created equally. I know you

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Speaker 2: love Ether and Solana, and you know you're traditionally going

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Speaker 2: back to bitcoin, but what does it mean for crypto?

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Speaker 1: Well, listen, crypto traditionally has traded with four year cycles,

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Speaker 1: and that would be ending in December, right halfway between

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Speaker 1: the having is usually where our peaks have been. And

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Speaker 1: you know the end of twenty seventeen, if you had

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Speaker 1: sold everything in December, you look pretty smart. And the

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Speaker 1: end of twenty twenty one, if you'd sold everything in December,

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Speaker 1: you look pretty smart. And now here we are October

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Speaker 1: of twenty twenty five, at all time highs at almost

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Speaker 1: every token, and you're wondering should you sell everything in December?

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Speaker 4: Listen? What could be different? And I think probably is different.

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Speaker 1: We have gotten one piece of legislation out of the

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Speaker 1: US called the Genius Act stable coin legislation. In an

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Speaker 1: all likelihood, sometime in mid October mid.

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Speaker 4: November, we're going to get.

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Speaker 1: The second piece of legislation, which will help define what

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Speaker 1: a security and what a commodity is and a lot

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Speaker 1: of other rules around crypto in America.

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Speaker 4: That's a big deal.

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Speaker 1: With those two bookends of legislation, it's going to unleash

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Speaker 1: a tremendous amount of new participation, new participation in crypto.

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Speaker 4: I mean, think about it.

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Speaker 1: You can't use stable coins on your iPhone yet, there's

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Speaker 1: almost zero chance in the next few years you will

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Speaker 1: be able to use stable coins on your iPhone or

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Speaker 1: on your Samsung Galaxy phone or in almost any social

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Speaker 1: media app. You couldn't before because they weren't necessarily legal.

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Speaker 4: Now they are. Yeah, and once the.

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Speaker 1: US government puts its improper tour on this industry, which

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Speaker 1: it has, we have the most crypto friendly sec one

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Speaker 1: could imagine. Yeah, you know, you're going to have this

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Speaker 1: new wave of participation and so we might not be

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Speaker 1: in the traditional cycle.

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Speaker 2: Well, this week, Brera Holding says it will be renamed

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Speaker 2: Soulmate to become a Solana based digital asset treasury following

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Speaker 2: a three hundred million dollar fundraise. It's newly named CEO,

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Speaker 2: Marco Sentori, joins us now along with Galaxy Digital's Mike Novograts.

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Speaker 2: Marco's formerly worked at Pantera and Kraken. Good to have

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Speaker 2: you on the program. Another digital asset treasury company. I

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Speaker 2: was shocked to see an Olga Krieff's article today actually

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Speaker 2: about Mike Novograts and other Princeton folks, that there have

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Speaker 2: been eighty five digital asset treasury companies just this year.

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Speaker 3: Why another one listen to. First of all, thank you

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Speaker 3: for having me.

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Speaker 7: Second of all, you've got to stop looking at treasury

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Speaker 7: companies as trades.

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Speaker 3: These things are notes.

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Speaker 7: There are going to be as many treasury companies as

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Speaker 7: there are coin accumulation strategies over the next twenty years.

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Speaker 7: This is not a fad, it's not a trend, it's

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Speaker 7: not going away. This is a replacement for the traditional

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Speaker 7: foundation model. So historically, what digital asset innovators have had

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Speaker 7: to do is sequester all of their new coins. They're

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Speaker 7: newly created coins in these not for profit corporations or

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Speaker 7: nonprofits in the Caymans, in Switzerland, and basically these companies

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Speaker 7: have watched their treasury go down into the right over time.

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Speaker 3: That is clearly an inefficient model.

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Speaker 7: We think treasury companies are going to take the place

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Speaker 7: of these foundations over time. They have access to the

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Speaker 7: capital markets, they can be more dynamic, they can generate revenue,

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Speaker 7: and they can still steward the ecosystems that they're supposed

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Speaker 7: to steward. So you can't look at this thing like

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Speaker 7: a trade. You have to look at it as an evolution.

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Speaker 5: Having said that, and your company is rebranding itself as Soul,

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Speaker 5: which really shows that you're betting on that particular coin.

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Speaker 5: Can you explain why you've said walste will be building

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Speaker 5: on Solana and not ethereum, what's the basis for that view?

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Speaker 7: Well, I'm a big Solona believer. Everybody at Soul made

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Speaker 7: it's a big Salona believer. Bitcoin is special. Bitcoin was

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Speaker 7: and remains and I think for a very long time

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Speaker 7: will be special. It's a new monetary system, a new

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Speaker 7: kind of money. Then Ethereum came on the scene, and

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Speaker 7: Ethereum said, you know what, there's actually more we can

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Speaker 7: do with these blockchains. We can do more than just

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Speaker 7: move value around. We can create smart contracts, they can

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Speaker 7: be composable, they can be decentralized, they can be hardened

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Speaker 7: against attack and interference. But then it didn't scale, it

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Speaker 7: didn't go anywhere. Ethereum still can only handle a small

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Speaker 7: number of transactions per second at the base layer, and

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Speaker 7: instead it chips off the large numbers of transactions, all

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Speaker 7: the high throughput, highly performance transactions to these second layer

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Speaker 7: servers where it's really just somebody else's computer, and sacrifices

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Speaker 7: so many of the values that made decentralized technology valuable.

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Speaker 3: Solana doesn't do that. Solana doesn't have to do that.

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Speaker 7: It can scale to hundreds of thousands of transactions per

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Speaker 7: second at the base layer, at that foundational layer that

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Speaker 7: made all of those promises about financial services and what

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Speaker 7: financial services could do with blockchains. So when I discovered Solana.

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Speaker 7: I wasn't as early as the party as some I'll

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Speaker 7: tell you that, but it was a light bulb moment

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Speaker 7: that went off.

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Speaker 3: This is clearly the future.

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Speaker 7: This is what sophisticated high throughput transactions are going to

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Speaker 7: run on in the future.

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Speaker 5: Mike. I want to bring you into the conversation because

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Speaker 5: Tim mentioned they're about eighty five companies that are involved

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Speaker 5: in dahs, and you've said that you don't think all

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Speaker 5: these dhs will be successful. But if you get critical mass,

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Speaker 5: enhance yield on the underlying token, and build the ecosystem,

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Speaker 5: I think they're net positives for crypto. These are public

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Speaker 5: companies that will be around for a long time.

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Speaker 6: Mike. What will determine success and longevity?

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Speaker 1: Listen, I think you're going to need scale, right because

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Speaker 1: scale begets scale, and so you know, you think of

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Speaker 1: something like micro strategy, which came out first, and now

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Speaker 1: strategy it's got scale, and you know it will it will.

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Speaker 4: Probably What do these companies do?

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Speaker 1: They bring energy into the ecosystem in lots of ways.

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Speaker 4: And what I.

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Speaker 1: Was a little wrong on early on, and then it

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Speaker 1: dawned on me, was the access to capital through the

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Speaker 1: equity infrastructure is so much greater than it was through

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Speaker 1: the crypto infrastructure. Right, crypto' is a twelve year old business,

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Speaker 1: and equities have been.

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Speaker 4: Around for a long long time.

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Speaker 1: That the wonderful thing about these data center company, of

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Speaker 1: these treasury companies is they've brought in so much more

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Speaker 1: capital at a quick pace.

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Speaker 4: And that capital is what will build this industry.

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Speaker 1: And so I think in each of these buckets, like

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Speaker 1: I love the fact that that Marco is doing another

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Speaker 1: Salona company because it's also based in a different part

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Speaker 1: of the world. It's going to attack a different set

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Speaker 1: of new investors. You know, we're you know, foreign Industries

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Speaker 1: is a very US focused investor base and company, but

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Speaker 1: it's a global technology and so in some ways, the

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Speaker 1: more of the merrier, I think, in order to survive,

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Speaker 1: you're you're going to have to prove to the investors

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Speaker 1: that you bring value. Right, Like listen, if we all

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Speaker 1: trade to nav it's hard to it's hard to raise

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Speaker 1: a lot more capital. And so you've got to do

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Speaker 1: something that allows you to think, hey, on our one

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Speaker 1: point six billion dollars of Solana, just through staking and

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Speaker 1: other things, if we can get that yield from seven

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Speaker 1: to ten percent you're making one hundred and sixty million

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Speaker 1: dollars a year in dividends, and you can use that

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Speaker 1: one hundred and sixty million dollars a year to do

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Speaker 1: other cool stuff with You can use that leverage to

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Speaker 1: maybe get a good deal on getting free free equity

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Speaker 1: in a program that's building on top of the blockchain.

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Speaker 4: And so you're gonna have to be creative.

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Speaker 1: We partnered and forward with Jump Capital and multi coin.

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Speaker 1: Jump is probably the premier builder of architecture, of financial

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Speaker 1: market architecture on blockchains and certainly on the Salona blockchain.

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Speaker 1: And so to me that's just thrilling. Right, there are

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Speaker 1: four companies in the world I think that can coind

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Speaker 1: of Pete with Jump right, like frequency trading, and so

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Speaker 1: they see the Salona blockchain as what will be the.

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Speaker 4: Foundation for capital markets in America.

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Speaker 1: And when you have the new head of the SEC,

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Speaker 1: Paul Ack and saying I want everything to move on, Shane,

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Speaker 1: that's a big deal.

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Speaker 4: I mean, it's a stunning Dear.

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Speaker 2: We're going to talk more about the regulatory environment in

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Speaker 2: just a moment. In the meantime, I do want to

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Speaker 2: thank soulmate CEO Marco Santori for joining us on set.

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Speaker 2: Mike nograts is sticking with us now.

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Speaker 8: I'm committed to this company because they did everything they

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Speaker 8: could to try and cancel us. They did everything they could,

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Speaker 8: I'm talking about traditional finance to put us out of business.

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Speaker 8: I was the guy that was getting hundreds of letters

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Speaker 8: from the big banks, Capital One, JP, Morgan, you know,

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Speaker 8: I mean all of them, Bank of America. I saw

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Speaker 8: Moyhand was just on trying to take away accounts for

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Speaker 8: for golf courses, for hotels, for residential buildings, for doing

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Speaker 8: absolutely nothing wrong. And it drove me into crypto because

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Speaker 8: I realized that there was nothing that couldn't be done

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Speaker 8: in crypto better, faster, cheaper, more transparently, and it's amazing industry.

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Speaker 5: That was Eric Trump speaking to us last week. We're

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Speaker 5: back with Galaxy Digital founder and CEO Mike Novogratz.

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Speaker 6: Mike, the White.

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Speaker 5: House, as we know, has ushered in this new era

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Speaker 5: for crypto in terms of regulation and of course in

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Speaker 5: terms of this friendly stance toward growing the industry. Are

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Speaker 5: you comfortable with the First family being this act of

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Speaker 5: so active in this industry. Some make the argument that

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Speaker 5: there's an inherent conflict of interest. There.

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Speaker 1: Listen what I've said before, and I'll say again, as

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Speaker 1: long as the Trump family and their associates by the rules,

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Speaker 1: I'm completely fine by it.

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Speaker 4: And you know, the one thing.

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Speaker 1: About this new SEC is they're all about disclosure and

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Speaker 1: you know people, and it's a little bit of a

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Speaker 1: buyer beware SEC.

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Speaker 4: And I would guess if you read.

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Speaker 1: Through most of the the different protocols the Trump guys

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Speaker 1: that have participated in it's everything they do is pretty

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Speaker 1: well disclosed, and so I don't think there should be

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Speaker 1: any mystery around, you know, what they're doing.

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Speaker 4: Listen, if they break the rule, if I break the rule,

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Speaker 4: we should get in trouble. But I don't think you

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Speaker 4: can you can prevent.

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Speaker 1: The children of people in power from participating in business.

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Speaker 1: I do think it's an issue in politics right The

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Speaker 1: Democrats are going to make a big deal about what

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Speaker 1: they perceive as grift, that the president shouldn't be doing this,

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Speaker 1: and that that has a potential to slow down the

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Speaker 1: market structure bill. The far left will push. I think

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Speaker 1: the optimistic news is is there's enough Democrats.

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Speaker 4: Right, you know, and you can think about guys.

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Speaker 1: Like Mark Warner, Ruman, Diego's our own New York Senator

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Speaker 1: Kristian Jildebrand that see the value in crypto, that see

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Speaker 1: the political value in being seen as pro technology, pro innovation,

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Speaker 1: that market structure will get passed, and we'll probably get

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Speaker 1: passed with a lot more than ten Democratic votes.

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Speaker 2: So it sounds funny we spoke I just want to

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Speaker 2: jump in because there'red a ton of time. But we

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Speaker 2: spoke to Dan moorehead last week, and he made the

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Speaker 2: point of saying that it really seems like this is

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Speaker 2: important to voters. I push back a little bit on that,

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Speaker 2: because we saw in the last election a year ago

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Speaker 2: that even the pro crypto candidates weren't being messaged in

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Speaker 2: a way that even mentioned cryptocurrency in a lot of cases.

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Speaker 2: Do you think that Democrats now are getting the message

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Speaker 2: if you think that they have to be on board

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Speaker 2: with this type of asset, I do.

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Speaker 1: I think Democrats a lot of them think, oh shit,

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Speaker 1: crypto swayed the election Trump's way. Why were we so

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Speaker 1: dumb not to like you think that the election. I

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Speaker 1: think crypto had a big deal. If it had the

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Speaker 1: big deal in the election in the Ohio.

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Speaker 2: Senate, but was that crypto or was that just the

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Speaker 2: messaging around Bernie Moreno, I think.

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Speaker 4: It was crypto. It was the money that crypto brought.

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Speaker 1: Crypto was the crypto pack was the single largest donor

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Speaker 1: to the Trump campaign.

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Speaker 2: But they didn't message around crypto. They message around the border.

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Speaker 2: They message around other issues that seemed to resonate more

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Speaker 2: with voters.

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Speaker 4: They listen. There were eighty million crypto owners in America.

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Speaker 1: A lot of them are single issue voters who care

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Speaker 1: a lot about this issury that more people own crypto.

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Speaker 4: Than owned dogs.

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Speaker 1: You know, can you imagine being the party that said,

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Speaker 1: I don't like dogs, I don't care about like like.

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Speaker 1: It was so dumb for Democrats to be anti crypto.

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Speaker 1: It turned people off. It was It wasn't the only thing,

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Speaker 1: but it was a pile on effect of all those

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Speaker 1: issues that swayed young men. I mean, young men voted

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Speaker 1: for Trump much more than they did in any press election.

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Speaker 4: And young men are the crypto people.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, go ahead, No.

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Speaker 5: No, no, I think that's a good point, and it's

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Speaker 5: something that's a distinguishing factor.

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Speaker 6: We only have about a minute left. I'm just wondering.

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Speaker 5: As we wrap up our conversation here. It's been a

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Speaker 5: banner year for crypto overall? What is next on your

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Speaker 5: to do list?

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Speaker 4: Mike, listen.

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Speaker 1: I think any cryptocurrency company has to be looking on

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Speaker 1: Shane to figure out how do we move more of

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Speaker 1: our business on Shane. How do we bring on Shane

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Speaker 1: access to our traditional customers. Right when the head of

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Speaker 1: the SEC says we think markets should move on Shane,

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Speaker 1: we should listen. And so we spend a lot of

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Speaker 1: time here figuring out that exact question. We are building,

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Speaker 1: we're investing. You look at our stocks, it's gone from

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Speaker 1: the lower left to the upper right in a pretty

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Speaker 1: good line. So we feel good about you know, we're

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Speaker 1: having a great core order in a great year, and

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Speaker 1: so it's a whole different, different feeling here than it

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Speaker 1: was twelve months ago.

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Speaker 2: Hey, Mike, we only have ten seconds. You're known for

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Speaker 2: that Luna tattoo that you got a few years ago.

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Speaker 2: Did you get the Solana the sole tattoo?

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Speaker 3: Yet?

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Speaker 1: All my tattoos are are going to be kept hidden

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Speaker 1: for a long time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll keep talking about him as long as you

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Speaker 2: keep coming on. We appreciate it.

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Speaker 5: Mike Murrats, founder and CEO of Galaxy Digital, really appreciate

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Speaker 5: your joining us for the entirety of bloomber Crypto,