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Speaker 1: On the Bedel Cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women in UM, are all their discussions just boyfriends and

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Speaker 1: husbands or do they have individualism the patriarchy zef invest

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Speaker 1: start changing it with the Bedel Cast. Hi, everybody, Hello,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My name is Caitlin Toronte,

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Speaker 1: my name is Jamie Loftus. UM. We hope that this

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Speaker 1: podcast finds you well. It has been a very difficult

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Speaker 1: couple of weeks, UM, and if you're listening, thank you

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Speaker 1: for listening. Yes, indeed, so we are. We're going to

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Speaker 1: be getting back to uh, your regularly scheduled UM programming

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Speaker 1: movie episode next week. But we wanted to just have

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Speaker 1: a bit of a conversation, uh this week, a bit

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Speaker 1: of a conversation. It was a conversation, a full conversation,

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Speaker 1: a whole last conversation, UM, because I think, like many people,

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Speaker 1: we've been taking stock of not just our own ship,

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Speaker 1: but of our shows shit, and so we just want

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Speaker 1: to speak to that briefly before UM sharing a whole

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Speaker 1: conversation we had with a friend of the cast and

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Speaker 1: friend of us Mobli. Yes, yes, we'll get to that

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Speaker 1: in a moment. But Jamie, Like you said, I've been

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Speaker 1: doing a lot of reflecting. You've been doing a lot

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Speaker 1: of reflecting on our episodes that we've done so far

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Speaker 1: and the movies that we've chosen to cover and the

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Speaker 1: dearth of black movies in our episode history. Yeah. Which

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Speaker 1: it's like we were talking about it because originally we

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Speaker 1: were considering re releasing an older episode this week, and

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Speaker 1: as we were going through our own catalog, and at

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Speaker 1: this point we have hundreds of episodes, the pickings for

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Speaker 1: a black directed and written movie were it was like,

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Speaker 1: I was mad at us, Like it, it's embarrassing. We

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Speaker 1: should be embarrassing. Yeah, we and we are, and we

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Speaker 1: we are to let all of our listeners know that

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Speaker 1: it is. I mean, we like, there's no excuse for it.

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Speaker 1: We we were just not We just weren't giving that

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Speaker 1: the attention that it deserves. And um, going through our

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Speaker 1: own catalog was, oh boy, it was a humbling experience because, UM,

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Speaker 1: I think you know, very often, Um, the excuse that

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Speaker 1: we have found to not cover black movies is that

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Speaker 1: we are a mainstream movie podcast. And what I don't

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Speaker 1: think that I you know, I knew it, but I

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Speaker 1: didn't think or articulate it well enough to the point

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Speaker 1: where it, you know, became the reality of the show

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Speaker 1: is well, what qualifies the term mainstream and mainstream I

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Speaker 1: think in a lot of ways indicates whiteness because of

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Speaker 1: money and because of in our specific world, where Hollywood

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Speaker 1: allocates this money and where it allocates its opportunities. So

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Speaker 1: I think that we've really often found an excuse to

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Speaker 1: cover more white movies than not because those were the

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Speaker 1: directors and the writers that have been given those opportunities.

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Speaker 1: But that's not an excuse. It's we're people that are

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Speaker 1: more than capable of seeking out movies that are not

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Speaker 1: written and directed by white people. I just I was

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Speaker 1: just like Jamie Caitlin, what thinking? But yeah, that's that's

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Speaker 1: some of the conversations that we've been having about about

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Speaker 1: the show. We also, of course always want to be

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Speaker 1: bringing you all sorts of voices, especially black voices. UM,

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Speaker 1: and we will continue to do so, and we want

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Speaker 1: to do it more than we currently do. UM. I

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Speaker 1: think we said this last week, but if if there

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Speaker 1: are specific guests that you're like, I'd love to hear

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Speaker 1: them on the show. UM, let us know. Hopefully we

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Speaker 1: can make it happened. But yeah, I think it's particularly

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Speaker 1: with black movies, we have failed our audience in in

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Speaker 1: just covering them, which will be rectified in the future

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Speaker 1: and the immediate future too. So yes, yes, if there

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Speaker 1: are movies that you would like to hear covered, also,

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Speaker 1: let us know. But we've got we've got ship in

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Speaker 1: the works indeed, And like I mean, the whole thesis

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Speaker 1: statement of our show is the media that we consume

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Speaker 1: and how it influences individuals as well as culture. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we we know already because we've talked about it on

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Speaker 1: the show at large, that the underrepresentation or misrepresentation of

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Speaker 1: any particular group contributes to a misunderstanding of that group. Um.

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Speaker 1: For example, the miss and under representation of black people

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Speaker 1: black characters in cinema contributes to systematic racism. Yeah. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: and and in many, many, many cases, UM, it is

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Speaker 1: white writers and directors perpetuating those stereotypes across all media

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Speaker 1: across you know, we cover movies, but it's also very

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Speaker 1: prevalent in television. It's it's everywhere, and and we do

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Speaker 1: not want to be contributing to um erasing or misrepresenting

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Speaker 1: or undercovering in particular black stories um or or or

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Speaker 1: any non white story. Really there are so many white stories,

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Speaker 1: you know, possible to say the world is good, it's um.

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Speaker 1: So we just kind of wanted to lead with that,

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Speaker 1: and you know what, We're going to continue reflecting on it.

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Speaker 1: But the main the main messages we recognize that we

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Speaker 1: have not covered enough black cinema. We have not, as

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Speaker 1: individ Jewels, seen enough black cinema because we have the

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Speaker 1: privilege of a lot of popular media being marketed to

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Speaker 1: us and being in many ways about us, and that

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Speaker 1: is something that we need to push past, like and

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Speaker 1: so we talk about it more with Kinnis Um particularly,

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Speaker 1: I loved like just talking about movies that are about

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Speaker 1: black joy and like comedy and like there's just you know,

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Speaker 1: so we just we just wanted to lead with that

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Speaker 1: and also say that we're committed to not just covering

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Speaker 1: movies but also UM directing you to voices to follow.

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Speaker 1: Will continue to elevate the voices of all of our guests,

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Speaker 1: but our our black guests in particular. We will be

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Speaker 1: UM directing you to if there's a guest We said

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Speaker 1: this last week as well, but if there's a guest

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Speaker 1: on the Battle cast that you enjoyed and you don't

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Speaker 1: follow their stuff? What are you doing? Like the click

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Speaker 1: that fall button. It's not hard to make it right now, Um,

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Speaker 1: and we are we apologize for our role in perpetuating

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Speaker 1: the extreme whiteness of um Hollywood and at times, I

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Speaker 1: think the extreme whiteness of feminism where we discussed this

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Speaker 1: briefly as well. But um, there is a very traceable

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Speaker 1: history of feminism being having a lot of asterisks being

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Speaker 1: specifically for white women. Definitely, that is not what we're about.

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Speaker 1: And um, we're you know, it's something that we're also

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Speaker 1: reflecting on. So uh for sure, Yeah, thanks, thanks for

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Speaker 1: for being here. You know, if you if you're a

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Speaker 1: listener of the show, you already know Kennie and she

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Speaker 1: was kind enough to talk to us about I mean,

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Speaker 1: she's a she's a movie buff and we love her

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Speaker 1: and we hope you enjoyed the conversation. Yeah, So, without

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Speaker 1: much further ado, let's cut to the conversation that we

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Speaker 1: had with our dear friend knee Smobile and we are

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Speaker 1: joined now with one of our favorite guest favorite friends,

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Speaker 1: just general wonderful hero. Uh it's our friend kend Hello.

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Speaker 1: I've never been called a hero. I'm gonna you know

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Speaker 1: what me people who save other people's lives. I was

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Speaker 1: gonna list professions, but some of those, Like now I

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Speaker 1: feel like I can't. I can't endorse an entire profession

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Speaker 1: of any kind because there's so just the people who

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Speaker 1: have saved people's lives. Those are the heroes. That's you're

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Speaker 1: also our hero. Yeah, that's true. And if listeners out

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Speaker 1: there you remember Kenese from our Back to the Future

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Speaker 1: episode which is on our Matreon as well as our

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Speaker 1: Casino Royal episode on our main feed. So friend of

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Speaker 1: the Cast returning third timere among the three time I

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Speaker 1: want to I want you guys to do what SNL

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Speaker 1: does and like what if I get on five times

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Speaker 1: I want to jacket? Oh we should do that. They do?

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Speaker 1: You get like a like a smoking jacket, like a

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Speaker 1: maroon velvet smoking jacket, and it has like five timeslove.

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Speaker 1: I just watched a way too much SNL, so I

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Speaker 1: know that, like really well, but yes, that is the

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Speaker 1: heartwarming and so weird to me. It's like Alec Baldwin

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Speaker 1: has a jacket. I don't want him to have a jacket,

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Speaker 1: but he does. He does, has that five times jacket

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Speaker 1: as we're recording this. Cops just got canceled for yes, wait,

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Speaker 1: Cops the TV program. Yeah, oh my god, the profession

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Speaker 1: person is over. We we did its, no for now,

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Speaker 1: it's just the television program is over. But that but

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Speaker 1: as far as media goes, that is a really good step.

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Speaker 1: But there's I didn't even know it was still on.

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Speaker 1: I've seen so many tweets say that they're like, they're

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Speaker 1: still make Cops. Yes, they're still having the Boys in

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Speaker 1: Blue run after people who were confused. When how long

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Speaker 1: has that show been on. It's been on since about

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Speaker 1: the eighties, nineties, eighties. I think it's thirty two seasons

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Speaker 1: is what I saw. My word. Oh boy, well, defund

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Speaker 1: Cops the show, and they did. They did. It's a start,

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Speaker 1: it started, it's a start. Well, yeah, I guess we

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Speaker 1: want to just take an opportunity to reflect on our

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Speaker 1: show's history, what we can do moving forward as the

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Speaker 1: host of this show to make sure we are being

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Speaker 1: as inclusive and as intersectional as possible. Uh yeah. So

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Speaker 1: there are some podcasts that talk about film, and the

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Speaker 1: only time they talk about black film is when it's

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Speaker 1: like this is a big, important black film and it

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Speaker 1: is being nominated for Academy Awards, and because they do that,

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Speaker 1: it is often black films that center on pain. So hey,

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Speaker 1: I'm a big fan, but also my pushes to please

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Speaker 1: include movies that incorporate black joy, silly black movies, movies

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Speaker 1: that aren't necessarily like critical darlings, but fan darlings, because

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Speaker 1: it's not just I swear to God if I have

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Speaker 1: to listen to another podcast where it's like, Okay, let's

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Speaker 1: dissect twelve years of Slave and let's talk about whipping

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Speaker 1: scenes for along that, and I'm like, who is this

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Speaker 1: fun for? Like, so, yeah, that's nice. What are some

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Speaker 1: of your favorites? Favorite movies that celebrate black joy? Uh? So,

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Speaker 1: every Thanksgiving I watched a double feature of Coming to

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Speaker 1: America and Trading Places. Love those movies. I don't know

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Speaker 1: what it is about Thanksgiving and Eddie Murphy, but mentally

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Speaker 1: those two things are paired forever. So Everythanksgiving I watch

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Speaker 1: those really fun comedies. Also, Dope, have you guys seen this.

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Speaker 1: It's one of the best teen movies of the last decade,

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Speaker 1: and I think it doesn't get a lot of props.

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Speaker 1: I think it's I just think it's so funny. Why

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Speaker 1: haven't we covered dope? Oh? Please please do? And it

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Speaker 1: has Oh there's a lady in it who's like in

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Speaker 1: a bunch of other things that I really like. And

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Speaker 1: she's like a teen and sometimes she is very much

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Speaker 1: so dressed like a teenage boy, and sometimes she's like

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Speaker 1: super glamorous, but she's fantastic. Sorry to bother you, how

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Speaker 1: Stella got her groove back? I just saw this, Like,

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Speaker 1: I know I should have seen it years ago, but

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Speaker 1: I just saw it earlier this year. The way they

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Speaker 1: shoot Tay Digs is a thing of beauty, and I

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Speaker 1: just I think it's important that we recognize that Bad

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Speaker 1: Boys is hilarious. Bad Boys too. I haven't seen Bad

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Speaker 1: Boys three because it came out when theaters were completely

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Speaker 1: shutting down. I don't think a lot of people think

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Speaker 1: of this as a black film. But it's directed by

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Speaker 1: Spike Lee Inside Man, with Denzel Washington and Clive Owen.

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Speaker 1: It's a really fun bank heist movie. Has to hotel

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Speaker 1: at four and oh, it has a ton of people.

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Speaker 1: William Dafoes in it, it's Jodie Foster. Check it out

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Speaker 1: and yeah, it's really it's great. It's high energy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I just am a big fan. UM good hair Chris

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Speaker 1: Rocks documentary about the hair care industry in the black community.

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Speaker 1: Girls Trip is hilarious. Uh. This is available on Amazon Prime,

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Speaker 1: and I know Amazon is bad, but this movie is good. Uh.

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Speaker 1: The Last Black Man in San Francisco. Uh. Music and

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Speaker 1: the way that that was shot Great Creed was so

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Speaker 1: good it made me join a gym. Like I left

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Speaker 1: the Summerville Theater in Davis Square, Centerville, Massachusetts, and I

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Speaker 1: walked to a Boston sports club directly and I joined

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Speaker 1: it because I was like, Kennis, you need to change

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Speaker 1: your life. This is media being influential. Yes, I mean

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Speaker 1: I would say it changed my life, but I did

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Speaker 1: not continue to go. I went for a few months

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Speaker 1: and then I stopped. Widows It's not lighten upbeat, but

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Speaker 1: it is again. I love a heist film. Oh no, Widows,

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Speaker 1: h I love getting a crew together, plan and a

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Speaker 1: crime committing a crime. It's great. And Steve McQueen is

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Speaker 1: one of my favorite directors. I think the way that

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Speaker 1: he shoots things is so interesting. Uh. And he got

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Speaker 1: Colin Farrell to be at once likable and hateable, which

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Speaker 1: is I think a fantastic lane for Colin Farrell. Um

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Speaker 1: us get out, of course, I Am not your Negro.

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Speaker 1: Also on Amazon Prime Sorry, City of God, Oh the Brazilian.

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Speaker 1: I think it's important to show like black people across

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Speaker 1: the planet because we are I'm sure, um, but that

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Speaker 1: was one of my I made my mom watch that

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Speaker 1: when I was in high school. I just found it

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Speaker 1: so moving. Uh and love and Basketball. That's going to

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Speaker 1: be my list, uh, my current list of very very good,

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Speaker 1: not homework feeling black movies. Nice. Yeah, those that's a

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Speaker 1: great list. Yeah, and we need to cover a lot

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Speaker 1: of those. Yeah, that's on I mean, and and for

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Speaker 1: listeners too, if there are movies from black directors um

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Speaker 1: or black writers that you would love to see covered

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Speaker 1: in the show, We're looking out for ones we haven't

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Speaker 1: seen or heard of, um as well. So you know

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Speaker 1: at us baby, We're we're ready for sure. Yeah. And

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Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken, most of the films that you listed,

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Speaker 1: just like Kinis, have black either writers or directors. Not

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Speaker 1: all of them, but I think most of those did.

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Speaker 1: I think most of them do. I think some of

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Speaker 1: the ones, especially the ones that are older, like Bad

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Speaker 1: Boys Coming to America, I don't think those have black directors. Um, right, Um,

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Speaker 1: but there are a fair number of black narratives and

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Speaker 1: film that don't have black filmmakers behind the camera. And

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Speaker 1: I think we talked about this on like the Hidden

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Speaker 1: Figures episode and things like that, Um, Spider Man into

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Speaker 1: the Spider Verse on the Matrian episode. We did about

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Speaker 1: that movie. There's a whole there's I can't think of

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Speaker 1: any others off the top of my head right now,

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Speaker 1: but I know they're out there because historically movies about

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Speaker 1: all types of people have still mostly been made by

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Speaker 1: white men. Specifically speaks to the fact that black creatives

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Speaker 1: have not been given opportunities, their work has not been

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Speaker 1: prioritized all those issues that lead to just there being

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Speaker 1: exactly the help Green Book nightmares such as those, and

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Speaker 1: I mean the help I think as of this recording

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Speaker 1: is still in the top ten on Netflix. So mad.

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Speaker 1: It makes me so mad. Who is I don't know

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Speaker 1: these people and I don't want to meet them, But

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Speaker 1: who are these people that are like, you're right, I

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Speaker 1: will help with racial just this by watching a story

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Speaker 1: about a black domestic worker who is deprived of her rights. Yes,

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Speaker 1: that's what I will do. That's that's that seems like

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Speaker 1: a good idea. To me, okay, and I this may

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Speaker 1: be too much, and I recognize that, but to me,

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Speaker 1: the help trending on Netflix is akin to the fact

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Speaker 1: that like ebony pornography, ebony and air quotes pornography is

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Speaker 1: like rising up the porn hub charts because people are like,

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Speaker 1: I am doing a good deed, I am helping racial

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Speaker 1: justice right now. It's it's a complete missing the mark thing,

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Speaker 1: but we keeps happening and it's making me mad. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's so cringe e. And and there's there's a tweet

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Speaker 1: from former guests on the show The Best de She's

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Speaker 1: so cool. She really is. She when she lived in

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Speaker 1: New York, and I was just like, that's a cool lady,

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Speaker 1: fellow Massachusetts rest from there. I was getting the Massachusetts vibes.

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Speaker 1: We're all so cool. But she she she had some

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Speaker 1: because we we circulated a list of black movies and

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Speaker 1: where you could watch them right now, a list that

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Speaker 1: was circulating that was like Netflix, Hulu, you know, just

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Speaker 1: to start. But I also tweeted something I wanted to

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Speaker 1: share where she said, all the anti racist watch lists

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Speaker 1: that don't include Daughters of the Dust or Losing Ground

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Speaker 1: or Hollywood Shuffle or Ganja and Hess or The Watermelon

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Speaker 1: Woman or Love and Basketball, remember Loving Get Out? You

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Speaker 1: like black movies, Surprise l W doesn't have to be homework?

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Speaker 1: Which I which which is? I mean that hit for

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Speaker 1: me as well as just like we should just be

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Speaker 1: watching more black movies and you know, as a show,

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Speaker 1: if the powers that be are not bringing it to

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Speaker 1: us and not pushing it, then it's on us. We're

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Speaker 1: a movie podcast. We need to seek it out. It's

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Speaker 1: not like we're watching movies. It's fun. It's fun. Hollywood

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Speaker 1: Shuffle is a really fun movie. I haven't seen it.

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Speaker 1: It's great. I am going to admit right now that

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Speaker 1: I don't think. I think I saw it in college,

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Speaker 1: but I haven't seen it since then, so I remember

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Speaker 1: none of the details because I don't remember my youth

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Speaker 1: so the same. Yeah, I saw it in college and

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Speaker 1: not sense, but I remember being really funny and like

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Speaker 1: providing some you know, compelling commentary. Yeah. I think celebrating

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Speaker 1: black movies that aren't just about black pain will also

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Speaker 1: help with that because I think the perception is if

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Speaker 1: you're watching a weighty black movie or like an important

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Speaker 1: black movie, it's gonna be a about race and civil

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Speaker 1: rights or slavery and be depressing as hell and something

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Speaker 1: that you have to sit through like homework, and I

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Speaker 1: know that is not the case. So just doing more

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Speaker 1: of a iety of black movies I think is important

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Speaker 1: for sure, absolutely because it's yeah, it's movies like that. Yeah, well, Jamie,

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Speaker 1: to touch on something you mentioned about, like if the

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Speaker 1: powers that be don't like basically the point that I'll

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Speaker 1: arrive at, so I'll just get there. We all we

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Speaker 1: all went to film school, right, We studied film school.

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Speaker 1: The two of us have master's degrees from Boston. Don't

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Speaker 1: like to bring up film We would never bring it up,

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Speaker 1: but continue just reflecting back on the movies that get

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Speaker 1: mentioned in like film textbooks, the movies that get screened

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Speaker 1: in classes unless you specifically take like a class on

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Speaker 1: black cinema, just general film classes. And maybe this has

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Speaker 1: changed in the years that I have gone to school,

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Speaker 1: or maybe this is the for certain schools. But the

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Speaker 1: two different brag the two different schools I went to

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Speaker 1: for film school, they were like, um, yeah, so there

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Speaker 1: were some important black films like Do the Right Thing

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Speaker 1: and Boys in the Hood and probably some other ones.

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Speaker 1: Also there was a whole black exploitation movement and um

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Speaker 1: the end, that's all you need to know. And they

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Speaker 1: really just completely gloss over and did not make a

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Speaker 1: priority of teaching film students about black cinema. And should

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Speaker 1: the onus have been on me to seek more out

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Speaker 1: for myself? Yes, did I do that? Not to the

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Speaker 1: extent that I should have. So yes, that is yet

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Speaker 1: another area that you know I will work on. We

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Speaker 1: also we went to the same place. I remember I

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Speaker 1: had to fight with my professors a little bit to

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Speaker 1: take a race and gender course because that wasn't part

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Speaker 1: of the master's degree program. It was an undergraduate class.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, I really think I should be

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Speaker 1: getting of this information. And it was there where I

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Speaker 1: saw she's got to have it. It was there where

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Speaker 1: I saw Paris is burning. It was there that I

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Speaker 1: saw like any representation of people who looked like me.

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Speaker 1: Because in screenwriting class, in film history class, we did

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Speaker 1: a lot of stuff. I mean I saw every single

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Speaker 1: Coen Brothers film, and like dozens of films by like

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Speaker 1: French all tour directors. But I still don't think like

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Speaker 1: I can confidently say that in school I didn't see

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Speaker 1: a single African film, like no films that were made

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Speaker 1: in Africa. Um, and I still haven't really seen those

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Speaker 1: like it. Just I think the only director that even

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Speaker 1: came up was Spike Lee, but that was it. M M.

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Speaker 1: It's it's frustrated because it's I I feel the same

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Speaker 1: way like it was on me to seek out more

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Speaker 1: and I didn't do as much as I should have.

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Speaker 1: But I think especially when we're talking about media and

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Speaker 1: media education, which is what we have allegedly done from

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Speaker 1: time to time between like talking about our various educational

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Speaker 1: degrees now for Billina, but like there there there is all.

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Speaker 1: There's just in like film education and in media studies,

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Speaker 1: it's so white, like it's and and again. It's like

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Speaker 1: kind of embarrassing too, like be aware of it at

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Speaker 1: the time, but not say enough about it. Where I

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Speaker 1: think I brought this up on the show before I

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Speaker 1: took a class called like Wilder, Alan and Kaufman, like

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Speaker 1: just three like it's and and again. It was like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: the black films that we studied were very like it

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Speaker 1: was just the same three movies that you hear about

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Speaker 1: in every course, and it's like we can't just that

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Speaker 1: means that first of all, there should be black film

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Speaker 1: professors employed in universities and also just no matter who's

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Speaker 1: teaching there. You know, I Kenneth, you shouldn't have had

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Speaker 1: to watch every Cohen Brothers movie that so I saw

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Speaker 1: all of them except Lady Killers because they weren't going

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Speaker 1: to do that. They weren't going to make us watch

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Speaker 1: the Lady Killers. Yeah, that's not signed that decision. I

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Speaker 1: think they would want to get rid of that as

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Speaker 1: part of their candidate. And I'm wondering what Tom Hanks

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Speaker 1: thinks about it. I just it is. I mean, that's

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Speaker 1: like something that I don't know. I feel naive for

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Speaker 1: not interrogating that more fully while I was in school,

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Speaker 1: But I hope and I think now just based on

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Speaker 1: um I did a little research into like today's students,

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Speaker 1: uh smarter than me? Yes, And there is there has

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Speaker 1: been more pushback ULM schools to not just teach. It

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Speaker 1: feels like the same fifty movies no matter what school

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Speaker 1: you're going to. Basically they all got this same syllables

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Speaker 1: from online and they were like, yep, check, we are

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Speaker 1: doing the cannon and that's it. And if you want

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Speaker 1: to see anything that's outside of that cannon, if you

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Speaker 1: want to see people of color that are directors. If

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Speaker 1: you want to see female directors, you have to go

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Speaker 1: and seek those out. And it's frustrating that, I mean,

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Speaker 1: as as valuable as those classes are and as happy

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Speaker 1: as I am that they exist, that the stories are

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Speaker 1: still other two. A separate class like that just indicates

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Speaker 1: that the school doesn't feel that black film is film.

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Speaker 1: They're like, no, this is a separate it's a separate thing.

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Speaker 1: This is a class that's raised in gender where film

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Speaker 1: as an opponent, but we're not really counting it. And

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Speaker 1: what I think it does is it produces uh and

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Speaker 1: has produced generations of film scholars and film critics who

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Speaker 1: simply don't believe that works by black artists exist. Like

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Speaker 1: they're like, oh, it's not like it's kind of referring

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Speaker 1: back to like the Oscar so White campaign. It's not

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Speaker 1: that we are doing something bad. It's just that the

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Speaker 1: system hasn't turned out any filmmakers versus I haven't done

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Speaker 1: the research to know to go out and seek these

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Speaker 1: films out. And again it you know, correct me if

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Speaker 1: I'm wrong. I think that in terms of the diversity

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Speaker 1: of how many black film critics are being put on

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Speaker 1: and given the appropriate reach is also like an issue

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Speaker 1: that comes up with us all the time, where there's

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Speaker 1: so many movies that we've covered that are like, well,

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Speaker 1: keep in mind, this movie got mixed reviews, but probably

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Speaker 1: because everyone who reviewed it was a white man and

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Speaker 1: this movie was not for them, and so that's why

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Speaker 1: they were just like I didn't get it. See like

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Speaker 1: that is infuriating, and I agree, yeah, and and so

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Speaker 1: we're gonna aim to But I mean, we've had a

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Speaker 1: number of um black film critics on the show before,

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Speaker 1: like Joel Monique is like one of the best in

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Speaker 1: the game. She's amazing. Um Ashley Ray as a writer

427
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:58,159
Speaker 1: I really enjoy reading and she's t best just she

428
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 1: is just on all the time. I love her so much.

429
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 1: And um and Danielle Radford is another amazing black media critics. There.

430
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:11,239
Speaker 1: There are so many wonderful black film critics, and I

431
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 1: think it is like changing slowly, but in terms of

432
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 1: like are they getting the appropriate microphone and reach and

433
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:20,640
Speaker 1: are they being put on in the way that they

434
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,919
Speaker 1: deserve to be, I think that there's still ways to go,

435
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 1: and we'll commit to showcasing those voices because sometimes you

436
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 1: see like a random white guy review a movie that

437
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 1: they just clearly they didn't even attempt to put it like,

438
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 1: it's just most film critics assume that the movie they're

439
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:44,920
Speaker 1: watching is made for them specifically. Yes, it's wild. I've

440
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,200
Speaker 1: heard and I do listen to a few film podcasts,

441
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 1: and there is one that I like, but it is

442
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 1: led by two white men, and just the nuances that

443
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 1: they miss out on entirely because they're not familiar with

444
00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 1: the culture makes them say, oh, this isn't very deep

445
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 1: or these scenes aren't well active. But it's like they're

446
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,680
Speaker 1: operating on something that you just haven't taken the time

447
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:09,120
Speaker 1: to think critically about, versus not saying anything at all.

448
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 1: And we have those blind spots too, and it's like, yeah,

449
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 1: it's like just stuff that we need to commit to

450
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 1: working and figuring out. And I'll repeat this podcast recommendation

451
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 1: again just because I've been listening to even more of

452
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:24,880
Speaker 1: it than I usually do. But black men can't jump

453
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:29,959
Speaker 1: in Hollywood, go to it. It's so funny, and I

454
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,159
Speaker 1: hope that well we'll have them on the show as well.

455
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,679
Speaker 1: Yeah that and like there's I think a discussion to

456
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 1: be had around I guess like the must see movies

457
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 1: of the year, and how it's very seldom that they

458
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 1: are black movies. I think that like get Out was

459
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 1: a recent exception, but like it's it's very rare that

460
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 1: there will be critical darlings or movies that like critics

461
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 1: by and large love and say like, you got to

462
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 1: see this, this is the musty movie of the year

463
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 1: because it is like white critics mostly or historically leading

464
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 1: the narrative of like what movies you have to see,

465
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 1: and which results in us getting every Richard Linklater film

466
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 1: being one that you absolutely have to see because is

467
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 1: it is it boyhood universal? Everyone feels it strongly about

468
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 1: it has been in their forties. Everyone feels that way.

469
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 1: That killed me. I was like, it was fine. I

470
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 1: don't know, everyone's okay, right, they really they really played

471
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 1: us with that one. That was so I didn't see

472
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 1: it until last year, and I was just like, what

473
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:44,960
Speaker 1: that was what I was have to see? They were

474
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 1: really betting on that kid growing up to be a

475
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 1: good actor. Yeah, yeah, no, but I mean that was

476
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,959
Speaker 1: a tangent. But yeah, I I totally agree. And I

477
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 1: think again it's where we have a platform where we

478
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 1: talk about film. I include us in in that as well,

479
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 1: and that's like, that is something that we need to

480
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 1: get better at. Is um even if the marketing department

481
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 1: is not going to tell us this is a must

482
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 1: see movie, it's like, you know, let's seek out the movie,

483
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 1: let's watch it, let's talk about it. It's truly the

484
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 1: easiest thing in the world to do, and uh, we'll

485
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 1: be doing it much more. Yeah, when I was growing up,

486
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 1: I lived kind of between one theater which was in

487
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 1: a wider neighborhood, in one theater which was in a

488
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 1: blacker neighborhood. And even then it was really clear to

489
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:39,719
Speaker 1: see which movies were advertised and pushed where so, like

490
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 1: a black movie would be maybe on one screen playing

491
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 1: twice a day at the big one in the white neighborhood,

492
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 1: but then you go over to the black neighborhood and

493
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 1: it would be on like four screens. It felt like

494
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 1: they were like, come and see this maybe, but we

495
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 1: don't anticipate that this audience could have any interest in

496
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 1: this type of story, which is so limiting, Like for

497
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 1: it it just and it just assumes whiteness is the dominance.

498
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 1: It assumes whiteness it is the dominance, and that it

499
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 1: fulfills the prophecy that that movie won't make as much

500
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 1: money because they're not putting it in as many places,

501
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 1: and so it has to like it had every theater

502
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 1: has to sell out or it has to blow out

503
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 1: sales records in order to be considered a success. Like

504
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,959
Speaker 1: why like Girls Trip made so much money, but it

505
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 1: had to be very good in order to make that money,

506
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 1: if that makes sense. And also framing, I remember Girls

507
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 1: Trip being framed as like a surprise success and like,

508
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 1: what is that supposed to be indicating? Fucking like Queen Latifa?

509
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 1: Is it? How is it a surprise that Jada Pinkett

510
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 1: Smith Tiffany had, Like, yeah, it had such a major

511
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,239
Speaker 1: movie stars. Yeah, it was. It is very good. I

512
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 1: liked it a lot. I loved it. It's very funny.

513
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 1: There's a very specific SNL skit, Tom Hanks. It's on

514
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 1: Black Jeopardy. Did you guys see this? I know it

515
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 1: doesn't sound super familiar. I think it's one of the

516
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 1: best sketches that SNL put out for a while, But

517
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 1: it's Tom Hanks. He's on Black Jeopardy, which is a

518
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 1: bit that they do that's really recurring, and they ask

519
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 1: a question about a media movie and he answers it

520
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,239
Speaker 1: right away and everyone is shocked. They're like, you know,

521
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 1: all of media. He's like, it's a it's a heartwarming

522
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 1: film where they talk about God. I've I feel like

523
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 1: that hits with a lot of people, and it just

524
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 1: everyone was shocked and like, yeah, I guess I guess

525
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 1: it does. I think that if they approached it more

526
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 1: like that, that these are themes that are fairly universal

527
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 1: that a lot of people can relate to, that these

528
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 1: films would have wider releases and bigger openings. Absolutely, That's

529
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 1: the thing about storytelling is that, sure, there are some

530
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 1: movies that are geared for a more specific niche audience,

531
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 1: but like a lot of movies in general try to

532
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 1: appeal to as large of an audience as possible by

533
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 1: exploring very universally relatable themes. And many black films do this.

534
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 1: And for film marketers to assume that a white audience

535
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 1: couldn't connect with a story with a black protagonist or

536
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 1: a story that explores a black experience like that is

537
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 1: ludicrous and Hollywood needs to get a clue and like

538
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 1: invest in black creatives too, because it's just it's such

539
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 1: a like, you know, such a cyclical issue of like,

540
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 1: you know, if black creators don't get the money to

541
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 1: make their movie, then there's automatically less movies to market.

542
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 1: If a movie is made by a black creative, it's

543
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 1: automatically marketed less because there is this like prevalent assumption that,

544
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 1: no matter how many times it's proven wrong, is always

545
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 1: assumed over and over and over that black movies won't

546
00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 1: sell as well even though it's it's so frustrated, like

547
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 1: constantly multiple times a year proven wrong. Um, but you know,

548
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:10,360
Speaker 1: it just becomes like this vicious circle. And since we

549
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 1: cannot count upon the entertainment industry to improve, which it

550
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:22,399
Speaker 1: does so so so so so so slowly. Um, but

551
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 1: it truly, I mean I feel like it does come

552
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:28,400
Speaker 1: down to like individuals being like I am going to

553
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 1: look outside of what is literally put in front of

554
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 1: me by because and also like so often what is

555
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 1: put directly in front of us, as we discussed on

556
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 1: the show constantly, it sucks. Um so yeah, And I

557
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 1: mean part of that responsibility is ours to like go

558
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 1: and research the films that aren't maybe in the mainstream

559
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 1: because Hollywood refuses to try to let them be in

560
00:34:56,160 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 1: the mainstream, and to watch those films and share them

561
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 1: with our audience and our friends and everyone everyone around us. Um,

562
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 1: what I think we want to do now is just

563
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 1: encourage our listeners to do the same work that we

564
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 1: are committing to in terms of discovering more black cinema

565
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 1: consuming it, and will also be using like more of

566
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 1: our platform, more of our social media to direct you

567
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 1: where we can. And we're always like, we want to

568
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 1: hear what you're watching, um, what you'd like to see

569
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 1: covered on the show, which our listeners have never been

570
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 1: shy about letting us know, so we trust, we trust

571
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 1: that that will continue. But we uh, we're going to

572
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 1: prioritize more finding voices to elevate and uh show to

573
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 1: you with our with our humble baby platform. Um yeah,

574
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 1: And I honestly like we're focusing on black cinema right now,

575
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 1: but we could stand to cover more movies about other

576
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 1: underrepresented groups. We could we there's movies about black, brown,

577
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:15,439
Speaker 1: Asian indigenous people. We could cover more queer movies, more

578
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 1: international movies, like not just English language American movies, Like

579
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 1: there's just a whole scope of things that we can Definitely,

580
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 1: the thing is we can read and we should do

581
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,759
Speaker 1: it more. Indeed, another thing that we are going to

582
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 1: do moving forward is an adjustment to our nipple scale.

583
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 1: We've always treated it as how does this movie represent women? Um,

584
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 1: But that is something that we of course realize isn't

585
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:50,359
Speaker 1: all inclusive. So what we're going to do instead, and

586
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 1: this is what we've done with the podcast, with the

587
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 1: discussions itself, but we're just changed in the official rules. Yeah,

588
00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:00,080
Speaker 1: extending it to the nipple scale is rather than and

589
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 1: how does the movie represent women, It's more how does

590
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:07,279
Speaker 1: the movie hold up when we're looking at it from

591
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:12,719
Speaker 1: an intersectional feminist lens um, And that way it's more inclusive,

592
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:15,880
Speaker 1: it's more intersectional. That is what we're going to do

593
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 1: moving forward. Yeah, because we we also fully acknowledged I mean,

594
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 1: we always say that the Bechtel test is a flawed metric, um.

595
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:26,400
Speaker 1: But one of the ways in which it is a

596
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 1: flawed metric is that you know, by and large, we

597
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 1: don't have the numbers on this, but we've seen movies.

598
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 1: I think that oftentimes the Bechdel test is most often

599
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 1: and passed between two white women. And so you know,

600
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 1: it's on us to be taking and coming at the

601
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:49,279
Speaker 1: entire show through an intersectional lens, and that means, like

602
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 1: we always do, we will be talking beyond the Bechdel Test.

603
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 1: But even with our own metric and with how we're

604
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:57,839
Speaker 1: approaching the Bechtel Test, we're we're going to be kind

605
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,399
Speaker 1: of making that a little more focused in a little

606
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:03,799
Speaker 1: more clear moving forward. And I think that that I

607
00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:07,400
Speaker 1: also want to give a hat tip to past guests

608
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:10,800
Speaker 1: Danny Fernandez UM for making that point on a recent

609
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:14,359
Speaker 1: Twitter thread that Um, she just mentioned the Bechtel Test

610
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 1: often caters to white women, UM, which is absolutely true,

611
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:22,240
Speaker 1: and we will be more mindful in you know, pointing

612
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 1: that out for sure, when a movie does pass, it's

613
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:31,840
Speaker 1: often between two sis white women. And while that's not nothing,

614
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:36,439
Speaker 1: it's definitely not everything. Not everything. What a great way

615
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,319
Speaker 1: to put it, um. And And also that I mean,

616
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,759
Speaker 1: speaking of the Bechtel Test, and you know, listeners, you

617
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 1: know that we only use that as a really springboard

618
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 1: to inspire a larger conversation. There's still a way that

619
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:52,920
Speaker 1: we could approach even how we treat the Bechtel Test

620
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 1: is being more inclusive. Because we've always said, you know,

621
00:38:56,560 --> 00:39:00,120
Speaker 1: female identifying characters who speak to each other. I've I've

622
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:04,439
Speaker 1: seen renditions of it where it's women, fems and non

623
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 1: binary people if they speak to each other. So it's

624
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 1: basically just broadening it up to more identities on the

625
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:15,799
Speaker 1: gender spectrum speaking to each other and still allowing that

626
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 1: to pass. So UM, moving forward, I think that would

627
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 1: be a good idea to implement. Um. And with that,

628
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 1: thank you so much Kennie for being here. Of course,

629
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:33,400
Speaker 1: thank you so much for having me. Of course, Um,

630
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:37,880
Speaker 1: where can people follow your stuff online? What would you

631
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 1: like to plug? You can find me online at Kennese

632
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 1: mobili on all the platforms. That's Twitter, that's Instagram, that's Venomo.

633
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 1: If you're nasty, I don't know why I said that,

634
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:52,880
Speaker 1: but you get it right now. Yeah, but only if

635
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 1: you're that's weird. Um, I take it back my bed okay. Uh.

636
00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:59,440
Speaker 1: And also you could listen to my podcast which is

637
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 1: called Love out Town, which Caitlin you have been a

638
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:04,480
Speaker 1: guest on and Jamie was a guest on one of

639
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:08,560
Speaker 1: the first incarnations of the pot Yeah he actually can

640
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Speaker 1: you both that of on both People about Town, right

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Speaker 1: and then Love About Town? Uh huh. Thanks for having me, Um, Yes,

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Speaker 1: please follow Cannie and Venmo hur at least ten dollars,

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Speaker 1: preferably more. And you know you can follow us in

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Speaker 1: our all the normal places, um Instagram and Twitter as

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Speaker 1: well you know the other stuff we don't need to

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Speaker 1: hawk our merch right now. Um yeah. Well, and we'll

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Speaker 1: be back next week spoiler alert or during Tangerine next week. Yes,

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Speaker 1: so excited love that movie. Yeah. Thanks everyone for listening,

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Speaker 1: and we'll be back next week. Bye bye