1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:04,520 Speaker 1: I'm juring Russa. We bring you another edition of Peer 2 00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:09,119 Speaker 1: to Peer Conversations with David Rubinstein from Bloomberg Television. This week, 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: David speaks with Gates Foundation co founder Melinda Gates about 4 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 1: inequality in the US. You have a new book called 5 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:17,759 Speaker 1: The Moment of Lift. What is the moment of lift? 6 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:21,120 Speaker 1: Referred to the phrase lift? Well, so for me, moment 7 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:23,759 Speaker 1: of Lift. I grew up in the family in Dallas, Texas, 8 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 1: and my dad was an Apollo engineer on the Apollo missions. 9 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 1: And it was when we would go watch that rocket 10 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: launching and the Earth would be shaking and the rocket 11 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:36,839 Speaker 1: was rumbling and it finally pushed against the forces of 12 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 1: gravity and went to the moon. To me, that's the 13 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:41,839 Speaker 1: same thing I've seen with twenty years of work through 14 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:45,200 Speaker 1: the Foundation for Women, that if we can help lift 15 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 1: up all women, we will change the world. But there's 16 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: a lot of forces pushing women down today. It's the 17 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 1: largest foundation in the world. It has assets of how 18 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 1: much now now we have assets of about fifty billion dollars. 19 00:00:57,520 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 1: You create the foundation from the wealth created by Mike 20 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: soft And then one day um Warren Buffett called you 21 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 1: and Bill and said, guess what, I don't know what 22 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 1: to do with my wealth, but I want to give 23 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 1: it to you because I like what you're doing. Is 24 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:12,400 Speaker 1: that essentially it that's essentially at Warren's plan was that 25 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: his wife, Susie was very involved in philanthropy, and his 26 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 1: plan had been to give it away through the foundation 27 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 1: that he and she had, but she passed away early, unexpectedly, 28 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 1: and so then yes, he came in surprised. Bill and 29 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 1: I said that the vast majority would go through our foundation, 30 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:29,960 Speaker 1: and then three that his children had, and the Susan T. 31 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 1: Buffett Foundation. So when somebody called you and said, guess 32 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 1: what I'm giving you fifty or sixty billion, you didn't expect? 33 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:38,479 Speaker 1: What did you say? Thank you? Or I can't believe this, 34 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:40,960 Speaker 1: or I can honestly tell you that. Bill and I 35 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 1: took a walk after that discussion and we were alone 36 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: and we both cried, and um, I think we cried, 37 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:52,880 Speaker 1: both of us because to to know Warren's generosity and 38 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 1: that we would be able to do even so much 39 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 1: more than we were already doing for people around the world, 40 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 1: it was just unbelievably touch moment and touching moment of friendship. Okay, 41 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: so when you're doing the work of the foundation. The 42 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 1: two of you, you're going to substar in Africa, among 43 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 1: other places, a lot of travel. Eventually, you decided that 44 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: you wanted to focus a little bit more on women's issues, 45 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 1: and one of the first ones you thought about was contraception. Now, 46 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: you are a committed Catholic, and was it difficult for 47 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 1: you to say we should focus more of the foundation's 48 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 1: efforts on contraception. What was Bill's view? And did you 49 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: get a lot of flak from people in the Catholic hierarchy. Yeah. 50 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:32,239 Speaker 1: So Bill was a hundred percent supportive of this decision, 51 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 1: and he knew that I had learned so much in 52 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:38,959 Speaker 1: the developing world from talking to women. He knew I 53 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:40,640 Speaker 1: had looked at the data, I looked at where we 54 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 1: didn't have data, and I was able to talk to 55 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:46,959 Speaker 1: him about and he knew, this is the greatest anti 56 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:51,359 Speaker 1: poverty tool. We have, the greatest and if you make 57 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:53,639 Speaker 1: sure that women have access all over the world. Two 58 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:57,519 Speaker 1: hundred million women were asking the world to have this tool, 59 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 1: and we weren't delivering it as a world. So I 60 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: knew when I decided to take this on that the 61 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 1: reason we weren't delivering. It was political controversy in our 62 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 1: own country and religious issues, so it was a difficult 63 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: decision for me because of my Catholic roots. I am 64 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:17,360 Speaker 1: still Catholic. But when I met so many women around 65 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 1: the world and they would discuss with me that this 66 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 1: was literally a life and death crisis for them as 67 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 1: a mom. They would say, if I have another baby 68 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:28,800 Speaker 1: too soon, I'll die in childbirth, or I have five children, 69 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 1: it's not fair to my last child or the others 70 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 1: to have another one when I can't feed them. And 71 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: so I had to wrestle with my Catholic faith and say, 72 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 1: what do I believe in. I believe in saving lives, 73 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 1: and so this was the right thing to do. And 74 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 1: did you find sometimes a woman would say, take my 75 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 1: child because I can't raise this child more than once. 76 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 1: So I wouldn't be often. I learned from Warren's wife, Susie, 77 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 1: as she told me early, if you can go in anonymously, 78 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: so I'll go in too many rural settings, a woman 79 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 1: from the west pair khaki pants and a T shirt. 80 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 1: I'll give you an example. I was in northern India 81 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 1: and I visited a health clinic. So I went into 82 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: a village to talk to a woman. And by the 83 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 1: time I was finished speaking with her, I asked her 84 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 1: kind of had one last question. I said, so, what 85 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 1: hope do you have? Her name was Mina. What hope 86 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 1: do you have? And she looked down for a long time. 87 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 1: She cast her eyes down. I thought, oh, no, I've 88 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 1: asked something inappropriate, and she finally looked up at me 89 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:24,360 Speaker 1: and she said, the truth is, I have no hope. 90 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:29,360 Speaker 1: I have no hope for feeding this child or that one, 91 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:34,160 Speaker 1: or educating them. Please take them home with you. And 92 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:36,719 Speaker 1: when that happens, it was not the first time it 93 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 1: had happened to me. It is heartbreaking to see a 94 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 1: woman who loves her clearly loves her sons that much, 95 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:45,479 Speaker 1: but to know they would be better off going home 96 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:49,159 Speaker 1: with a stranger. That's heartbreaking. And that's the story of women, many, 97 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:52,159 Speaker 1: many women and families around the world. So annually you 98 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 1: have a letter that is written to the Foundation by 99 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:59,839 Speaker 1: the Foundation heads you and Bill. Originally was written by Bill. 100 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 1: And then when you said Bill, I want to get 101 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,920 Speaker 1: some of the women's issues in what did he say? Yes? So, 102 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 1: first of all, the idea for the annual letter came 103 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 1: from Warren and Bill and I both thought that was 104 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 1: a really good idea. However, we had three very young 105 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:17,359 Speaker 1: children at the time, and I was on several boards 106 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 1: and working at the foundation as an executive, and I said, Bill, 107 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:21,919 Speaker 1: I don't have time to put pen to paper. I 108 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 1: just can't do it. And Bill said that's okay, I'll 109 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 1: do it. And so Bill started writing it and he 110 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:28,839 Speaker 1: did a great job, but he got very used to 111 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: writing it alone. So when this contraceptive initiative that I 112 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: was leading came out, I said Bill, I really want 113 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 1: to write about this in the annual letter. And he 114 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:39,839 Speaker 1: felt like the annual letter was going quite well from 115 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:44,600 Speaker 1: his perspective, and so we had some difficult discussions at home, 116 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 1: and I finally wrote a sidebar in the annual letter. 117 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 1: The next year, we discussed it again before penn was 118 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 1: put to paper, um and I wrote a piece of 119 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 1: the annual letter about a third and the next year 120 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 1: we had another discussion and I wrote half, and now 121 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 1: I always write half of the annual letter. We have 122 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:04,719 Speaker 1: to sometimes have those uncomfortable conversations. Bill and I believe 123 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:07,800 Speaker 1: in equality, but did we really have it in our voice? 124 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:12,039 Speaker 1: Not yet, And so we've worked on that systematically over time, 125 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:14,360 Speaker 1: and now I can tell you my husband is a 126 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: hundred percent committed to making sure I have my voice 127 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:20,159 Speaker 1: fully in the world. Okay, so, like most married couples, 128 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: you have disagreements from time to time. Sure, sure, I 129 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 1: think every marriage does, and I think I believe in 130 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:28,719 Speaker 1: marriage you should have a little bit of healthy grist 131 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 1: because that's how you move forward. Let's talk about your 132 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:36,600 Speaker 1: beginning of your life. You grew up in Dallas, and 133 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 1: you went on all girls Catholic school and you went 134 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:41,919 Speaker 1: to Duke. Did you where else did you think of going? Well? Actually, 135 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 1: the first place I thought I wanted to go it 136 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 1: was Notre Dame because many of my girlfriends in high 137 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 1: school's dad's had gone there. But when I went my 138 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 1: dad and I went to visit Notre Dame, they were 139 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: phasing out computer science. They thought it was a fat 140 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 1: I knew I wanted to study computer science in college. 141 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 1: Then I saw Duke. They just had a big aunt 142 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: from IBM too great computer Labs, and I said, this 143 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 1: is where I'm going. You were not on the basketball team, right, 144 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:07,920 Speaker 1: everybody Duke doesn't play basketball, and not everybody I went 145 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 1: to the games, though I love them and you point 146 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 1: out in your book that interestingly, women were more involved 147 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 1: in computer science years ago than maybe today. Why was that. Yes, 148 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 1: So at the time I was in college in the 149 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 1: late nineteen eighties, we had about thirty seven percent of 150 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 1: college undergrads and computer science for women. So we were 151 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 1: on our way up, we thought, like law and medicine, 152 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 1: and that has since dropped down about seventeen or eighteen percent. 153 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 1: Now it's on a slight uptick to nineteen percent. We 154 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 1: don't actually know why women have dropped out of computer science, 155 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 1: but there's some theories looking at the data we do have, 156 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 1: and that is that personal computers were really promoted to 157 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 1: boys as a home gaming device, and women and girls 158 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 1: said I'm out, and then it became this self referential circle. 159 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 1: You want a special program was a five year program 160 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 1: where you get an undergraduate degree and an m b 161 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 1: a R. So for five years you have your degree, 162 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 1: are about to have your degree. So you were interviewing 163 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 1: at computer company. So there was a small company that 164 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 1: was interviewed, I guess at Duke as well, called Microsoft. 165 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 1: I was part of the first hiring class of MBAs 166 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 1: at Microsoft, and uh, there were nine men and me. 167 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 1: So you go to Microsoft and as it as good 168 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 1: as you think, well, we were changing the world. I 169 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 1: loved that. I love the innovative nature. I love creating products. 170 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 1: I did consider leaving Microsoft, though, within about two years, 171 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 1: because I was um the culture was abrasive, quite honestly, 172 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:36,199 Speaker 1: and um, I didn't and I could play that game. 173 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 1: I knew how to do the debate. I knew how 174 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 1: to stand up for my idea, stand up for my 175 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 1: team's ideas. But I didn't like myself and I didn't 176 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 1: like how I was treating other people when I go 177 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 1: to the grocery store out in the world or interact 178 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: with other people. And so I thought about leaving. And 179 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 1: then I thought, no, I'm just I don't think this 180 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:55,960 Speaker 1: will work. But I'll try being myself in this culture 181 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: and just see if it works, and if not, I'll 182 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 1: go take some other job. And um, I started to 183 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 1: be myself and I started to build teams that were 184 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 1: collaborative and that worked together more and we're less abrasive. 185 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:11,560 Speaker 1: And uh, it turned out I could recruit people from 186 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 1: all over the company, to my surprise, to work on 187 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 1: these teams. So when did you first meet Bill So? 188 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:21,080 Speaker 1: I actually first met Bill So three weeks into my job. 189 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 1: I'd never been to New York City. I never hailed 190 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:26,319 Speaker 1: a cab. Microsoft sent me to New York for a 191 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 1: business meeting. And so my female roommate. Microsoft used to 192 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 1: make you have another roommate when you went traveling on 193 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 1: the road. My female roommate said, hey, women, you're done 194 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:36,719 Speaker 1: with your business meeting across town, why don't you come 195 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 1: to this dinner? And I said, great, came from across town, 196 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 1: sat down at a dinner. There were two chairs open 197 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 1: because I came late from this meeting h that I 198 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:47,439 Speaker 1: was at, and um, I sat down. Next year was empty. 199 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 1: Ten minutes later, Bill came in, sat down next to me. 200 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 1: And so that's when I first met Bill, about three 201 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 1: weeks into the job, and he said, wow, how about 202 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:56,719 Speaker 1: getting to know me better? He didn't say that. Then, 203 00:09:57,040 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 1: he sort of said, A bunch of us are going 204 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:02,959 Speaker 1: out dancing tonight. Why don't you come? And I said, well, 205 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 1: I actually have some other plans from somebody I knew 206 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:09,559 Speaker 1: from business school tonight. Um. And then back at Microsoft 207 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 1: a few months later. Everybody back then used to work 208 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:15,079 Speaker 1: late on Friday nights, quite late on Saturday. You'd worked 209 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:17,600 Speaker 1: all about three or four o'clock and so, um, my 210 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:20,240 Speaker 1: car was part next to his in a parking lot 211 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:23,599 Speaker 1: and he struck up a conversation and we talked for 212 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 1: a while and then he said, um. He asked me 213 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 1: if I would go out with him eventually too. This 214 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 1: was Saturday, two weeks from Friday night, and I said, 215 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 1: two weeks from Friday night. Like I was twenty two 216 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:36,600 Speaker 1: years old, you know. I was like, I have no 217 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 1: idea what I'm doing two weeks from Friday night. I said, 218 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 1: that's not quite spontaneous enough for me, and he said, okay, 219 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:44,680 Speaker 1: well you give me Can I take your phone number? 220 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 1: So he did called me about an hour later at 221 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 1: my apartment and said, well, is this spontaneous enough for you? 222 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: How about tonight? But then he said, but I have 223 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 1: a user group meeting and a dinner I have to 224 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 1: go to. So how about a glass of wine downtown? 225 00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 1: I thought a user group meeting on a Saturday night, 226 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:00,960 Speaker 1: but I agreed to me him for a glass of wine. 227 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:03,080 Speaker 1: That was our first date. And was it hard to 228 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 1: work at the company while people knew that you were 229 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:10,840 Speaker 1: dating the CEO founder? Yeah? So I um, so the 230 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 1: first date with Bill, I thought I would go out 231 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 1: with him once, maybe twice, and I just thought, well, 232 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: he'd be interesting. Obviously, he's running this company that's doing 233 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:19,680 Speaker 1: all these amazing things in the world. Then when I 234 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 1: realized we were going to start dating more after the 235 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 1: first two dates, I thought, this is tricky and I'm 236 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 1: not sure I want to do this, because I had 237 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:27,959 Speaker 1: worked really hard, I mean computer science to get my 238 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 1: m b A. I studied economics, and I thought this, 239 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 1: I'm not sure this is going to go well for me. 240 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 1: And I remember talking to my parents on the phone, 241 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 1: particularly my mom. She's like, this is not a good idea, 242 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 1: and I said, yeah, but he's really interesting and he 243 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:43,719 Speaker 1: actually has a big heart that I think a lot 244 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 1: of people don't see, and I don't know why. I've 245 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 1: sort of gotten to see that side of him. And 246 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 1: so what I decided to do was that, um, I 247 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:53,080 Speaker 1: would date him, but I made it known in the company. 248 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 1: I didn't try to hide it, and I made it 249 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:58,080 Speaker 1: incredibly clear to the teams that I was managing, that 250 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:00,600 Speaker 1: I had these very bright lines, and that I did 251 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 1: not go home from Microsoft and talked to Bill about 252 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:06,320 Speaker 1: work because I'm preparing teams to go into meetings with 253 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 1: senior leadership, including Bill, and they're nervous, right, and I'm 254 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 1: having to prepare them, prepare myself. And the last thing 255 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 1: I could do is go home and talk to him. 256 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 1: They had to know I had their their back in 257 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 1: the meeting, and so I just had to have very 258 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:22,319 Speaker 1: bright lines around that and we made that work. Not 259 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 1: worked out, it did work out. It's hard to believe 260 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:26,439 Speaker 1: that in the first night that you met him that 261 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:28,560 Speaker 1: I can't see Bill going out and being a dancer. 262 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 1: Is he a big dancer. I wouldn't have pictured he'd 263 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:35,200 Speaker 1: be going out dancing at night. He likes to. Okay, okay, 264 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:37,680 Speaker 1: you decided when your children came that you wanted to 265 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:40,200 Speaker 1: spend more time with them, and you you left Microsoft. 266 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 1: I surprised Bill and told him I wanted to leave Microsoft, Yes, 267 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:47,319 Speaker 1: And his reaction was really because he knew I loved 268 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:49,960 Speaker 1: working and I loved working at Microsoft, and he also 269 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 1: knew I had that piece of my brain that love 270 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:55,320 Speaker 1: to be be on the working side. So he was 271 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 1: quite surprised when I told him I was going to leave. 272 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: Did you then go to the foundation full time after 273 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 1: your children were a little bit older. My whole issue 274 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:04,319 Speaker 1: about how much I was going to work at the 275 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 1: foundation is. I had it timed for when our kids 276 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 1: would get older, so I knew until our last daughter 277 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 1: went off to preschool, I was not going to be 278 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:15,120 Speaker 1: full time. Once I knew she was going to be 279 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:17,720 Speaker 1: in preschool, my plan always then was to work full time. 280 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 1: Let's talk about the issues of women in Subhan Africa 281 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 1: and some of the other things you would address in 282 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:26,200 Speaker 1: your book. You point out that in sub Saharan Africa 283 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 1: and other places, there are child marriages. Women are forced 284 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 1: to marry at six, seven, eight years old. Why is 285 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:37,199 Speaker 1: why does that happen? Quite often a family will marry 286 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:40,160 Speaker 1: their daughter off because one, they then don't have to 287 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 1: feed her, so that's less resources from their family, and 288 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: two they also want to protect the family's honors and 289 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 1: um that is a cultural barrier that is horrible for 290 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:53,960 Speaker 1: girls because they then often don't go to secondary school, 291 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 1: or if they're in secondary school, um, they're pulled out 292 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 1: of school, their moved to a village often where they 293 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,440 Speaker 1: oh no one, it's not even close to their home. 294 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 1: It's a horrific thing for a girl. She basically becomes 295 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:09,679 Speaker 1: the property of her husband's family or her mother in law. 296 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 1: So what have you tried to do to prevent some 297 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 1: of this occur. The only way you can overcome cultural 298 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 1: barriers is first you going in very sensitive ways with partners, 299 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 1: but then the community has to commit to it. Another 300 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 1: area you talked about in the book is a situation 301 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 1: where you have female cutting, genital cutting. What is the 302 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 1: purpose of that and how frequent is that done with 303 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 1: young women around the world. That is still a tradition, 304 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 1: particularly in a lot of northern Africa, and it is 305 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 1: horrific for a young girl. Young girls bleed to death. 306 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:50,760 Speaker 1: It is trauma, a traumatic event in their lives. Villagers 307 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:53,120 Speaker 1: do it for different reason. They believe it protects the 308 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 1: girl's honor. They believe that they if they love their daughter, 309 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:00,160 Speaker 1: they will do it. But what I have known is 310 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 1: that when education comes in. I talked to um, a 311 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 1: village leader and elder, and a group of women who 312 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: used to cut their daughters and no longer do. In 313 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 1: a group of women who are the cutters who no 314 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 1: longer do, and they said, you know, when people bring 315 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 1: in education from outside and they talk to us about things, 316 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 1: how people view this in other places in the world, 317 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 1: it starts to change our mind and we start to 318 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 1: question our past and then we create change. Another one 319 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 1: you talk about is abusive relationships, and husbands are very 320 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: abusive to their spouses in many different ways. And you 321 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 1: point out in the book and must have been difficult 322 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 1: to write about this, and you had an abusive relationship 323 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 1: as well before you were married. Yeah. So the reason 324 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 1: I even write a page in the book about having 325 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 1: been in an abusive relationship is that I want people 326 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 1: to know it can happen to anyone. UM. Its silences 327 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 1: your voice. It is a way of silencing a woman's 328 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 1: voice in a marriage, or in her workplace or her community. 329 00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 1: And for me, I lost my self confidence. And millions 330 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 1: of women are being either harassed or abused UM in 331 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:09,200 Speaker 1: all kinds of places. And again it's silence as women. 332 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 1: And so we have to talk about this barrier and 333 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 1: we have to lift it up. And what we can 334 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 1: do is collect data about it. The world doesn't actually 335 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 1: collect data on abuse, and then we can go in 336 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 1: and name it and recognize it and all commit to 337 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: changing it everywhere in the world. Now, a few years ago, you, 338 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 1: Bill and Warren decided to launch the Giving Pledge. Now, 339 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 1: what was the purpose of the Giving Pledge? And how 340 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 1: many people have now signed it. Yes. So the purpose 341 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 1: this was Warren's big idea, which was the Giving Pledge, 342 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 1: was to say, if you have great wealth, if you're 343 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 1: a billionaire in our country or anywhere in the world, 344 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 1: you can afford to give half away, and that is 345 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:52,120 Speaker 1: the right thing for society. Bill and Warren are really 346 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 1: clear that they could not have founded their businesses if 347 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 1: it had been saying Malawi or Mozambique. And so we 348 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 1: benefit from what society gives us the infrastructure, and so 349 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:05,920 Speaker 1: those resources at least have should go back to society. 350 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:07,919 Speaker 1: You've been a big help to us in this, David. 351 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 1: We now have a hundred and ninety families who have 352 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:12,959 Speaker 1: committed to the Giving Pledge and twenty two different countries 353 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:15,440 Speaker 1: around the world. There's a bit of a reaction against 354 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 1: wealthy people saying, let's put our money here, put our 355 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:20,720 Speaker 1: money there. How do you respond to that? I think 356 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 1: so what I know to be true is that Bill 357 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:26,880 Speaker 1: and Warren and I believe that we should not have 358 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 1: this inequity that exists in the United States. We need 359 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:33,639 Speaker 1: to do something about that. But we we are lucky. 360 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 1: I meet so many people around the world who would 361 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 1: like to live in our country. Who would like to 362 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 1: live in our democracy, in our capitalistic system, but we 363 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:43,880 Speaker 1: do have gaps in it and we need to do 364 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 1: things to fix those gaps. The thing that Bill and 365 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:49,719 Speaker 1: I try to be most cognitizant of is what's the 366 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:54,479 Speaker 1: role of philanthropy. All philanthropy can be is that catalytic wedge. 367 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:57,640 Speaker 1: We can try things, we can experiment with our own 368 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:00,240 Speaker 1: money where you wouldn't want a government to expaire with 369 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 1: taxpayer money, but then we have to prove it out 370 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:05,440 Speaker 1: and then it's up to government to scale up. So 371 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: we feel that philanthropy with government, with a private sector, 372 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:13,920 Speaker 1: with a non governmental organization, that that set of partnerships 373 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 1: in that ecosystem can do the best for the world. 374 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:19,159 Speaker 1: So many people are probably wondering what it's like to 375 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 1: be for quite some time the richest couple in the world. Um, 376 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:24,359 Speaker 1: is it make it possible for you to go to 377 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:26,680 Speaker 1: a restaurant? Can you go to a movie? Well, first 378 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:30,239 Speaker 1: of all, we are incredibly privileged and lucky to have 379 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 1: the resources we have from Microsoft that is that full stop. 380 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 1: We do give up some privacy by having that, but 381 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 1: I have to say most people are incredibly respectful Seattle 382 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:43,120 Speaker 1: is a lovely place to live. They'll grow up there, 383 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:45,480 Speaker 1: and so the people who come up it's more because 384 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:49,120 Speaker 1: they're proud of what he's built with Microsoft and that's 385 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:51,639 Speaker 1: being carried on or what we're doing with the Foundation. 386 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 1: So I we try to look at those. I try 387 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:56,479 Speaker 1: to look at those as moments of grace, and we 388 00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:58,359 Speaker 1: try to be out in the world. Bill and I 389 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:00,359 Speaker 1: still love to go out to movie as we like 390 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 1: to go out to restaurants. So you told me a 391 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 1: couple of stories about your life together, and I might 392 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:07,200 Speaker 1: ask you about them. Um. You told me once when 393 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 1: you drop your first your oldest daughter off in college. Um, 394 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:14,160 Speaker 1: like anybody that drops their kids off in school and college, 395 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 1: the first they said, well you need this, you need that. 396 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:19,439 Speaker 1: So you decided you'd go to Lows. I think it 397 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:21,680 Speaker 1: was to get some additional things to help your daughter's 398 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:25,400 Speaker 1: room look better. I can't picture Bill Gates going through 399 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 1: Lows shopping. Well, it was actually really sweet moment. We're 400 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:31,479 Speaker 1: looking for an extension cord, which wasn't the easiest thing 401 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:33,400 Speaker 1: to find. It turns out it Lows. But when Bill 402 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 1: goes into a store like that, it's like he's in 403 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 1: a big laboratory. He's just curious about everything, and so 404 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:40,520 Speaker 1: Jen and I kept having to drag him and say, 405 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:43,159 Speaker 1: come on, we got to find the extension cords. Stay focused, 406 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:46,399 Speaker 1: and he mostly wasn't recognized until we got in the 407 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 1: cashier's line. But you know, he just plays along with 408 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:53,000 Speaker 1: it and it's fine. Jackie Kennedy once famously said that, um, 409 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 1: if you mess up raising your children, nothing else in 410 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:59,119 Speaker 1: life really matters. Absolutely, And as parents, we know that 411 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 1: the hardest thing to do is raised children. So you've 412 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:05,919 Speaker 1: had to shield three children from the enormous wealth and publicity. 413 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:09,879 Speaker 1: I have tried with our children to always to first 414 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:12,399 Speaker 1: have them know that they are loved. Most importantly, they 415 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:15,160 Speaker 1: are loved no matter what, and their job in life 416 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 1: is to find their talents and whatever those talents are, 417 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:20,960 Speaker 1: we will support that and we and it's up to 418 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:23,400 Speaker 1: them to bring those talents in the world no matter 419 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,119 Speaker 1: what they want to be. I also, when the children 420 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 1: were young, have always taken them out first in the 421 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:32,919 Speaker 1: Seattle community, even when they were kindergarten age um, and 422 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:34,879 Speaker 1: then at age appropriate times when they got to be 423 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:37,679 Speaker 1: about ten or eleven, out into the developing world to 424 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:40,640 Speaker 1: not only do a beautiful Safari, but to actually see 425 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:43,119 Speaker 1: what life is like on the ground and the And 426 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:45,119 Speaker 1: the last thing I will say is because when you 427 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 1: have great means, you don't have money as a buffer. 428 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 1: My kids have always had an allowance, and UM, we've 429 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 1: always had an agreement they're not allowed to tell other 430 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 1: people their allowance. Neither am I. Because some people would 431 00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:00,200 Speaker 1: say that's all the gates kids get. Another person would say, whoa, 432 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:01,920 Speaker 1: that's too much money that they get in a week. 433 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 1: But since they were young, they've always had an allowance 434 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,480 Speaker 1: that grew over time, and when they wanted something, they 435 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:09,639 Speaker 1: either had to use their allowance to buy it or 436 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: put it on their wish list for Christmas and hope 437 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 1: their grandparents or we would give it. And I would 438 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:15,360 Speaker 1: be and I could say to them if they had 439 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:17,240 Speaker 1: something they saw in the store they just had to have, 440 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 1: I'd say, well, just because I can doesn't mean that 441 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 1: I should. But what would you like your legacy to be? Ultimately, 442 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:26,399 Speaker 1: you and Bill together for what you've done on the 443 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 1: face of the earth, that we helped other people lift 444 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:35,160 Speaker 1: themselves up, to help everybody advance into society to advance. 445 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:37,399 Speaker 1: And I hope people say about me that I helped 446 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 1: lift up other women. Thank you very much. And again 447 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:42,560 Speaker 1: it's a very good book and I highly recommend at 448 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:44,920 Speaker 1: the Moment of Left. Thank you very much, Melinda, Thanks David, 449 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: great conversation. Thank you. That's Melinda Gates, the co founder 450 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 1: of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, speaking with Carlisle 451 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 1: Group co founder David Rubinstein for his Bloomberg television program 452 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 1: Peer to Peer Conversations. I'm June Grosso and I'm at Baxter. 453 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 1: This Isenberg m HM.