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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hi everyone, it's Jamie here with two quick reminders at

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Speaker 2: the top. First, if you are in the Los Angeles

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Speaker 2: area in November, I'm going to be workshopping my new

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Speaker 2: one person show called The Tiny Man Is Trying to

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Speaker 2: Kill Me, of course, and tickets are already running low.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to be doing workshop shows on Friday, November

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Speaker 2: first and Wednesday, November twentieth at the Lyric Hyperion, with

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Speaker 2: more dates to come.

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Speaker 3: But if you want to.

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Speaker 2: See the show early, tickets are running low, so get them.

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Speaker 2: It's really goofy, there's some body horror and I'm really

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Speaker 2: in my bag, So tickets in the description. And also

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Speaker 2: just a reminder that there is a sixteenth minute Reddit

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Speaker 2: board that is moderated by our amazing editor and producer

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Speaker 2: Ian Johnson if you want to chat about episodes after

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Speaker 2: you listen and.

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Speaker 1: Now, Moo dang, moo dang, move dang, what did they

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Speaker 1: do to you? Moodang?

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Speaker 2: If you're listening to this episode at the time of release,

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Speaker 2: you are either thrilled or completely sick of hearing about Moodang.

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Speaker 1: A now three month.

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Speaker 2: Old baby Pygmy Hippo at the kaal Kio Open zoo

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Speaker 2: in Thailand who went viral on TikTok for being a

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Speaker 2: three month old baby pygmy hippo. Moodang is the rare

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Speaker 2: internet phenomenon that no one dislikes. She lives to get

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Speaker 2: water from the hose from her zookeeper. She bites said

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Speaker 2: zookeeper's legs when there's not enough water from the hose.

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Speaker 2: She's a sassy, slick little baby who will one day

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Speaker 2: grow to be around three thousand pounds, suckling from her

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Speaker 2: mom as the hippo matriarch chows down eighty pounds of

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Speaker 2: grass a day. She is beauty, she is rage. There's

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Speaker 2: nothing controversial about Moodang. What could possibly be controversial about Moodang?

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Speaker 4: At just two months old, this little baby hippo is

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Speaker 4: already in Internet giants.

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Speaker 5: The hottest, hottest new it girl on the planet.

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Speaker 3: She's redefining beauty standards.

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Speaker 5: She's got chubby, pink cheeks, a distinct potato shape.

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Speaker 3: We're talking about moo Tang.

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Speaker 6: So we have like a little Moodang mean group chat

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Speaker 6: where we're like sharing, and we talked about getting Moodang

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Speaker 6: tattoos as a joke, but now it feels serious.

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Speaker 1: So the moodang mania is still spreading and sparking a

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Speaker 1: small business boom.

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Speaker 5: The comedian shut down criticism surrounding a now viral appearance

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Speaker 5: on Weekend Update in which he channeled the pop star

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Speaker 5: well dressed as viral baby hippo Moodang has a.

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Speaker 7: Baby Hippo sparked the next trend in makeup.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, we can't even look at a baby

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Speaker 2: hippo without starting discourse. You guys, chill out, please look

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Speaker 2: mooddang is fifteenth Minute is still very much underway, but

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Speaker 2: the human ability to torpedo a good thing inside of

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Speaker 2: six weeks remains completely undefeated. So today, in a special

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Speaker 2: mini ishisode, we're going to talk about Moodang, the phenomenon

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Speaker 2: of the social media zoo star.

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Speaker 1: And what we can do.

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Speaker 2: To make the world more safe for the tiny slick

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Speaker 2: queen of the Internet.

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Speaker 7: Play the music the.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to sixteenth Minute, the podcast where we take a

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Speaker 2: look at the Internet's characters of the day, see how

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Speaker 2: their moment affected them and what it says about us

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Speaker 2: and the Internet at large. And this week we're on

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Speaker 2: a bit of a side quest, taking a look not

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Speaker 2: just at current viral zoo sensation, Moo Dang the Hippo.

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Speaker 2: But at the long standing phenomenon of zoo celebrities. Zoo celebrities,

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Speaker 2: I don't want to coin a term because don't worry,

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Speaker 2: it'll get extremely dark. And I will also be speaking

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Speaker 2: with zoologist Oliver aka Doctor Wildlife to expand on what

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Speaker 2: zooelebrity means on today's social media. And to be clear,

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Speaker 2: may be clear, I'm not talking about viral pets here.

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Speaker 2: You're grumpy cats, your doges, your noodle, the pugs. Individual

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Speaker 2: ownership versus zoo ownership is a completely different discussion as

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Speaker 2: far as I'm concerned, which is just to say, by

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Speaker 2: all means, send me some requests on what viral pets

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Speaker 2: you'd want to see discussed on the show.

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Speaker 1: No.

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Speaker 2: This week we're talking zoo sensations because while animals who

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Speaker 2: go viral online have a lot in common regardless of

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Speaker 2: where they live, this conversation is very much its own thing.

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Speaker 7: So you earned it.

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Speaker 2: Let's start by talking about the current queen supreme of

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Speaker 2: the Internet, Miss Moodang the Hippo.

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Speaker 7: Come with me if.

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Speaker 2: You will to last month, it feels dramatic to say

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Speaker 2: we've already been through so much with moodang discourse. But

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Speaker 2: I'm kind of not joking when I say that, I

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Speaker 2: really do feel like internet sensations tend to inspire an

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Speaker 2: absurd amount of discourse, way more than they normally would

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Speaker 2: in the year before and after an election cycle in

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Speaker 2: the US because of.

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Speaker 1: Our rotting brains.

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Speaker 2: So let's get into it. Pigmy hippos aren't from Thailand natively.

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Speaker 2: They're West African, a little smaller than your average hippo,

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Speaker 2: and are very endangered, with an approximated less than three

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Speaker 2: thousand that still live in the wild in their native habitat,

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Speaker 2: mainly due to environmental destruction because of illegal logging and mining.

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Speaker 2: There's an approximate three hundred and fifty pygmy hippos living

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Speaker 2: in zoos across the world as of late twenty fourteen,

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Speaker 2: but as far as we know, that's about it. And

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Speaker 2: Mudang immediately became the most popular pigmy hippo in the

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Speaker 2: world this past summer while living at a for profit

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Speaker 2: zoo in Thailand, and weirdly enough, saying you're the most

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Speaker 2: famous pygmy hippo is actually saying something. A pigmy hippo

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Speaker 2: in Berlin named Tony went viral earlier last summer. But

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Speaker 2: Tony just did didn't have the stang power and that

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Speaker 2: showbiz babe, I don't know what to tell you. Moodang

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Speaker 2: was born on July tenth, twenty twenty four, to mother Jonah,

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Speaker 2: age twenty five and father Tony age twenty four, age

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Speaker 2: gap in Siracha Kunbury, Thailand, at the aforementioned kaw Kio

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Speaker 2: Open Zoo, and right away she had a whole pack

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Speaker 2: of full and half pigmy hippo siblings Nadette, moutun Co, Kanya,

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Speaker 2: Falo and Muwan. And from the moment she was born,

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Speaker 2: the direction of Moodang's life was decided by the general public,

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Speaker 2: to the extent that her name was voted on by

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Speaker 2: regular zoo attendees. The options given by the zoo online

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Speaker 2: were Moodang, which roughly translates to bouncy pork, mood dange

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Speaker 2: or dae nnge red pork, or moosap which means minced pork.

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Speaker 2: The public chose correctly and overwhelmingly, and Moodang got her

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Speaker 2: name by jury at over twenty thousand votes. And is

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Speaker 2: the name nice? I mean, I wouldn't love a name

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Speaker 2: that was just a physical descriptor of my infancy. But

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Speaker 2: it does make sense if I was named after what

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Speaker 2: I looked like as a baby, they would be like

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Speaker 2: meet Bald and Afraid Loftus. Moodang's course to fame is

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Speaker 2: a little nonlinear. There's no exact post that can take

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Speaker 2: full credit for her rise to prominence, but the naming

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Speaker 2: poll does seem to be a big part of it.

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Speaker 2: Some of the early posts that got the baby hippo

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Speaker 2: attention nationally in Thailand were engineered by her zoo keeper,

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Speaker 2: a man named Athapon Nundi, who regularly posted the cute

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Speaker 2: animals he worked with to social media for five years.

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Speaker 2: Then a Bangkok based seramicist named Yami Saracino, who saw

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Speaker 2: one of Nundi's posts, translated the Moodang naming poll, and

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Speaker 2: the story begins to creep westward. And I think it's

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Speaker 2: worth mentioning that Moodang was TikTok algorithm crack from moment one.

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Speaker 2: An early successful posts can be traced to an account

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Speaker 2: that exclusively posted Thai hippo content and had over two

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Speaker 2: million followers, because of course it did, but it didn't

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Speaker 2: start there. Moodang became a sensation on a smaller scale,

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Speaker 2: first on the zoo's Facebook, where she stood out from

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Speaker 2: the crowd as the most playful, chubbiest of the hippo siblings,

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Speaker 2: going nuts for the hose and getting a lot of attention.

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Speaker 2: The kau Kio Open Zoo was very online prior to

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Speaker 2: Moudang and regularly posted to Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok. This

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Speaker 2: is a very normal thing for zoos to do in

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Speaker 2: the modern age to encourage and maintain attendance. The earliest

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Speaker 2: post I can find about Moodang is two weeks after

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Speaker 2: her birth on the zoo's instagram on July twent when

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Speaker 2: the new hippo's birth was announced, leading with a picture

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Speaker 2: of Moodang herself.

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Speaker 8: The post says, this baby pigmy hippopotamus is a favorite

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Speaker 8: of tourists who bring their children to admire its cuteness

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Speaker 8: and take pictures as souvenirs. This baby pygmy hippopotamus is

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Speaker 8: the seventh from this pair of parents at kaw Kio

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Speaker 8: Open Zoo. At the moment, that baby pygmy hippopotamus does

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Speaker 8: not have an aim, they will announce its name soon.

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Speaker 2: The post goes on to describe that Moodang has been

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Speaker 2: a hit among attendees because of her high energy and

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Speaker 2: pension for biting her zoo keeper, and that there would

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Speaker 2: be a discount promotion to line up with the King

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Speaker 2: of Thailand's seventy second birthday, where she'd be on display.

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Speaker 2: Admission to the zoo translates to about ten dollars and

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Speaker 2: fifty cents in US dollars, and the zoo has been

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Speaker 2: opened since back in the nineteen seventies. And look, I'm

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Speaker 2: not going to bother analyzing why Moodang be king such

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Speaker 2: an online sensation, because it couldn't be more obvious. She's

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Speaker 2: fucking adorable. She's extremely expressive, and she seems to either

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Speaker 2: be sleeping or screaming at all times. She was like

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Speaker 2: born to be memed because she's immediately popular and immediately

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Speaker 2: causes controversy. The Kalkio opened zoo director, a man named

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Speaker 2: narongwit chad Choi, said that attendance doubled at the zoo

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Speaker 2: in the weeks after her birth announcement and subsequent meaning contest,

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Speaker 2: and that dangerous behavior from guests had escalated along with it.

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Speaker 2: Before long, the zoo had to install security cameras and

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Speaker 2: limit visiting hours to combat visitor behavior towards Moudang, which

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Speaker 2: was said to include throwing things and spraying Moudang with

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Speaker 2: water to get her to wake up for pictures. And

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Speaker 2: keep in mind, baby hippos are only generally awake and

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Speaker 2: playing for about two hours a day, and of course

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Speaker 2: Moudang is exhibited far more than that. And all this

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Speaker 2: happened before she became a global sensation on TikTok in

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Speaker 2: early September twenty twenty four, when Moodang memes started to

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Speaker 2: take over all of social media on TikTok, on Twitter,

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Speaker 2: on Instagram and it kept escalating from there. Hyperallergic writer

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Speaker 2: Issa Fharfan broke down the rapid uptick of Moodang from

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Speaker 2: the if you know you know animal meme to a

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Speaker 2: full blown corporatized image, and this happens in the course

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Speaker 2: of a couple weeks. The first week of September mainly

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Speaker 2: consisted of Moodang memes. The zoo had already had an

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Speaker 2: optic in attendance and was promising an impending merch line.

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Speaker 2: But as we just said, they weren't prepared for the

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Speaker 2: amount of attention that the baby hippo had generated, and

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Speaker 2: it took a little while to get their ducks or

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Speaker 2: whatever endangered specie you want to replace ducks with in

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Speaker 2: this metaphor in a row. But for my money, the

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Speaker 2: Moodang memes kind of returned to this older style of

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Speaker 2: meme format, one of those if you can't handle me

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Speaker 2: at my blank, you don't deserve me at my blank

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Speaker 2: kind of stuff. One of the most popular was from

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Speaker 2: a user on Twitter called at Something's underscore awry. It

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Speaker 2: says the rewards of being loved next to a picture

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Speaker 2: of a peaceful baby Moodang who's smiling, then the mortifying

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Speaker 2: ordeal of being known next to a picture of a blurry,

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Speaker 2: screaming Moodang. I know you know the picture I'm talking about.

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Speaker 9: Then.

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Speaker 2: On September ninth, the Google search trend for Moodang starts

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Speaker 2: climbing steadily as the mainstream media starts to catch on,

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Speaker 2: and fan art from the first week of viral Moodang

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Speaker 2: images keep increasing. Barfan notes that a lot of these

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Speaker 2: fan images portray Moodng as a feminist icon, the image

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Speaker 2: of her blurred and screaming body as the epitome of

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Speaker 2: female ray.

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Speaker 3: I can't lie.

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Speaker 2: Some of these are very funny to me, like as

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Speaker 2: her male zoo keeper WASH's Moodang. A TikTok user captioned it,

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Speaker 2: to be a woman is to perform, and the tweets,

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Speaker 2: of course, came in hot and heavy.

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Speaker 8: There is light and curiosity in Moodang's eyes.

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Speaker 9: If you need a timeline cleanse, I highly recommend like

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Speaker 9: a bunch of Moodang posts, the algorithm is providing and

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Speaker 9: now my feet is full of incredible baby hippo content.

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Speaker 8: And she didn't have to serve this hard, but she

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Speaker 8: did it for us.

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Speaker 2: Novelty Moodang cakes were made on TikTok. The moist Moodang

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Speaker 2: makeup tutorial was posted by a beauty influencer, and like clockwork.

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Speaker 7: The brands came in.

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Speaker 2: Most notably Sephora Thailand was right on top of the

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Speaker 2: Moodang trend, encouraging customers to wear your blush like a

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Speaker 2: baby hippo. In September, sports team got in on it too.

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Speaker 2: The Phoenix Suns, Washington Commanders, and the New York Meds

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Speaker 2: all photoshop their own promotional Moodang memes, and a tie

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Speaker 2: delivery app put her image on their home screen and

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Speaker 2: before you know it, people got even weirder about it

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Speaker 2: because you can't have a viral animal without a bunch

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Speaker 2: of weirdolls threatening to eat them. Twitter user big content

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Speaker 2: Guy says.

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Speaker 8: I'd smoke mood Dang for twelve hours like a brisk.

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Speaker 2: On September eighteenth, and you would think that's the weirdest one.

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Speaker 2: But our producer Ian did find this even worse one.

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Speaker 8: It says, I'd marinate moodang and soy sauce with mad

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Speaker 8: garlic and chili peppers, then coat the fat cap with

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Speaker 8: coarse sea salt to dry out overnight. Then I'd smoke

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Speaker 8: it over applewood and reverse sereate to crisp up, and

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Speaker 8: I'd serve with Hawaiian rolls and coleslaw.

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Speaker 2: Okay, is this kind of an edgeler joke? Yes, It's

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Speaker 2: something I would have said when I was twenty two.

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Speaker 2: But there are enough examples as the weeks go on

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Speaker 2: of MoU Dang being either threatened to be killed or eaten,

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Speaker 2: or being photoshopped doing something violent that she became This

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Speaker 2: example of something called the cute aggression phenomenon which quicksidebar

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Speaker 2: bear with me, is a proven psychological thing in some

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Speaker 2: humans where they see something adorable and their first instinct

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Speaker 2: is to, you know, squish.

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Speaker 3: It, attack it, try to eat it.

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Speaker 2: A literal embodiment of the iconic Despicable Me moment.

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Speaker 7: Look at that flappy unicor. He don't set them in

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Speaker 7: A guy's not flussy.

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Speaker 2: Shout out to the minions, especially Kevin. I'm really curious

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Speaker 2: if you experience this.

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Speaker 7: I bravely do not.

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Speaker 2: But a study from twenty eighteen estimated that about half

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Speaker 2: of adults.

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Speaker 7: Do you fucking se goes?

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Speaker 2: And it's not like people who experience cute aggression are

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Speaker 2: actually at risk to like squish a puppy's head until

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Speaker 2: it pops off, you see. Riverside psychologist Catherine Stephropoulos describes

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Speaker 2: the feeling as the human brain being overwhelmed by the

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Speaker 2: positive emotion of seeing something adorable, which makes their lizard

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Speaker 2: brain want to bite it.

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Speaker 9: She says, when people feel this way, it's with no

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Speaker 9: desire to cause harm. I think this is weird. I'm

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Speaker 9: probably the only one who feels this way. I don't

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Speaker 9: want to hurt it. I just want to eat.

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Speaker 2: It, Okay, But I do think this does explain some

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Speaker 2: of the reaction to MoU Dang. For example, a zoo

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Speaker 2: attendee told AP News in September.

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Speaker 7: She's such a cute little lump.

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Speaker 2: I want to baller up and swallow her a whole.

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Speaker 2: And I always wondered what this tendency was to like

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Speaker 2: pretend to eat babies and small animals and have it

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Speaker 2: be a socially acceptable cute thing to do. And it's

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Speaker 2: that because the human mind, well, it's very small. And

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Speaker 2: while some people were fantasizing about squishing, pummeling, and eating

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Speaker 2: Moodang's chubby little body until she exploded, the zoo she

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Speaker 2: lived at realized if they wanted to maintain Mudang's success,

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Speaker 2: they had to get ahead of some things. On September nineteenth,

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Speaker 2: ap News reported that the kau Kio Open Zoo was

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Speaker 2: in the process of copywriting Mudang's likeness and the phrase

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Speaker 2: Moodang the Hippo. That same director, narongwit Chad Choi, said.

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Speaker 8: After we do this, we will have more income to

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Speaker 8: support activities that will make the animals lives better.

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Speaker 2: The plan was to make shirts and sweatpants only to

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Speaker 2: be sold at the zoo, because by this point visitorship

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Speaker 2: had more than quadrupled. Around four thousand visitors a day

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Speaker 2: were watching Mudang for five minute intervals. After the zoo

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Speaker 2: changed the policy before being told to hit the road,

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Speaker 2: and because Mudang had had things thrown at her, the

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Speaker 2: zoo had to put up a sign to remind visitors

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Speaker 2: to stop throwing things at Moodang in three different languages.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to sixteenth minute, the podcast where we don't

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Speaker 2: want to eat a baby hippo. Oh my god, we're

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Speaker 2: talking about MoU Dang and two important things happened to

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Speaker 2: our sweet girl at the end of September. Well, actually

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Speaker 2: probably three. I'm assuming she was also hosed down. First,

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Speaker 2: a twenty four hour live stream of Moodang is launched

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Speaker 2: and hasn't stopped since. I have it on right now.

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Speaker 2: And the live stream is a classic viral zoo tactic

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Speaker 2: that first became popular in the two thousand and Most famously,

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Speaker 2: the two month old baby Hippo hit the American mainstream

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Speaker 2: hard when Bo and Yang appeared as Moodang on SNL

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Speaker 2: just a couple of weeks ago.

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Speaker 6: I'm ten weeks old, Colin. Of course I know chapel roone.

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Speaker 6: And by the way, leave her alone. Let her take

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Speaker 6: as much time as she needs for her mental health.

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Speaker 6: We both deserve patience and grace, so stop harassing her

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Speaker 6: and stop throwing shellfish at her. Do not yell my

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Speaker 6: name or expect a photo just because I'm your parasocial

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Speaker 6: bestie or because you appreciate my talent.

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Speaker 2: I know you can't see it, but no matter what

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Speaker 2: you think about this sketch, the costume is fucking incredible.

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Speaker 2: And it's here where the Internet becomes extremely unwell about

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Speaker 2: the whole Moodang situation. So in case you're a straight guy,

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Speaker 2: this sketch is a reference to a recent round of

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Speaker 2: discourse surrounding pop star Chapel Roone, who fucking rocks. I

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Speaker 2: can't believe we finally have an openly lesbian pop star

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Speaker 2: with great politics, and the public has responded by trying

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Speaker 2: to kill her. But that, however, clunkily is the comparison

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Speaker 2: that this sketch is obviously making. Chapel and Moudang both

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Speaker 2: got famous out of nowhere over the summer, to the

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Speaker 2: point where lifestyle adjustments had to be made to protect

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Speaker 2: both of them. Not for nothing. She is also the

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Speaker 2: most high profile pop star to be actively advocating for

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Speaker 2: transwrites and Palestine. But I digress. The comparison being made

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Speaker 2: here is clear and Bowen Yang screaming for a hose

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Speaker 2: every three seconds is delightful.

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Speaker 6: I'm your favorite hippo's favorite Pippo and time thirsty thirsty hose.

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Speaker 2: But my god, if we needed proof that Moodang had

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Speaker 2: fully invaded the zeitgeist and only kind of funny but

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Speaker 2: still weirdly controversial, SNL sketch is an excellent yardstick. But

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Speaker 2: the biggest controversy, one that's been raging on for over

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Speaker 2: one hundred years, is should we even be able to

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Speaker 2: aggle Moodang in the confines of a zoo at all?

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Speaker 2: Should the zoo go the way of P. T. Barnum's

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Speaker 2: circus and disappear? Okay, I'm sorry for punishing you with

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Speaker 2: two greatest Showman bits, two episodes in a row. I

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Speaker 2: just cannot get over how bad it is. Let's keep going.

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Speaker 2: I'll be honest, I'm not a fan of zoo's and

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Speaker 2: I understand that I'm still probably in the minority there.

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Speaker 2: And even this is a pretty new thing for me,

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Speaker 2: something I learned around five years ago after you guessed it,

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Speaker 2: going to the National Zoo in DC and doing some research.

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Speaker 2: But I want to introduce you to the basics as

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Speaker 2: to why I feel that way, because that does tie

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Speaker 2: into the controversy that surrounds Moodang, the fact that she's

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Speaker 2: not only an animal celebrity, but a zoo animal celebrity.

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Speaker 2: There are cases to be made for zoos, provided that

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Speaker 2: they are carefully regulated and that the appropriate professionals are

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Speaker 2: hired and retained to make sure decisions are always made

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Speaker 2: in the interest of the animals, not the interest of profit,

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Speaker 2: because when profit is prioritized, people and animals get hurt.

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Speaker 2: Look no further than public attractions like SeaWorld for what

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Speaker 2: a severe animal and human cost Neglecting the interest of

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Speaker 2: animals can result in. I'm, of course referring to Tillicum

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Speaker 2: the orca, the captive animal who was involved in the

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Speaker 2: death of three trainers famously covered in the twenty thirteen

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Speaker 2: documentary Blackfish and Orcas are not naturally aggressive towards humans.

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Speaker 2: This was largely thought to be a result of the

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Speaker 2: unnatural circumstances and being forced to perform, as well as

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Speaker 2: gross animal negligence on SeaWorld's part. More recently, there was

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Speaker 2: the Tiger King saga, in which a now imprisoned Joe

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Speaker 2: Exotic was found to be guilty of both animal abuse

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Speaker 2: and exhibiting endangered species without a license or oversight. And

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Speaker 2: these are just mainstream examples. They're the tip of the iceberg,

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Speaker 2: but both have led to increased public demand for better

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Speaker 2: regulation and a little bit of skepticism around exhibiting animals

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Speaker 2: in general. If run well, zoos can help conserve endangered

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Speaker 2: species while maintaining proper habitats for them, and can educate

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Speaker 2: the human public on the importance of conservation.

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Speaker 10: But but the case against zeus in their current form,

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Speaker 10: to me, is far more compelling, and Moudeng's treatment by

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Speaker 10: the public is a clear example of it.

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Speaker 7: The quote that.

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Speaker 2: Sticks with me most strongly comes from Dale Jamison and

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Speaker 2: his book Ethics on the Arc.

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Speaker 8: He says, zoos alleviate our sense of guilt for what

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Speaker 8: we are doing to the planet, but they do little

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Speaker 8: to help the animals we are driving to extinction.

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Speaker 2: And that's kind of what the Moodang phenomenon is right

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Speaker 2: A topic of conversation that doesn't feel shitty to talk

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Speaker 2: about during a period of enormous human unrest. So, in short,

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Speaker 2: let's talk about why animal rights activists, a famously intense

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Speaker 2: crowd I will admit, are ethically opposed to the zoo.

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Speaker 2: Most advocates believe that zoos, particularly for profit zoos, are

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Speaker 2: not a viable or ethical way to meaningfully conserve an

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Speaker 2: endangered species. Activists feel that zoos are for profit breeding projects,

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Speaker 2: with criticisms ranging from limited space to unnatural environment for

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Speaker 2: a certain species, to outright mistreatment, whether that's physical abuse

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Speaker 2: from trainers or harmful familial separation to maximize profits for

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Speaker 2: the zoos themselves. And there's plenty of history even as

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Speaker 2: animal protection laws develop, of zoos being poorly regulated, which,

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Speaker 2: given their history and connection to things like circuses or

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Speaker 2: private unethical animal collections like Joe Exotics, makes a lot

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Speaker 2: of sense depending on the animal. Most advocate to leave

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Speaker 2: the animals in the wild or if their environment has

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Speaker 2: been compromised by humans, in a sanctuary where specialists can

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Speaker 2: provide the animals with good care, where they'll never you know,

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Speaker 2: have stuff thrown at them to make them wake up

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Speaker 2: for a TikTok.

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Speaker 7: Here's what Keita.

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Speaker 2: Asia had to say about the Moodang phenomenon on September twentieth.

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Speaker 8: There is nothing cute about a baby being born in captivity.

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Speaker 8: Hippos belong in the wild, but moudang will never live

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Speaker 8: outside a cage, she faces a lifetime of confinement, deprived

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Speaker 8: of her freedom and the opportunity to experience her natural

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Speaker 8: habitat and the social structures of her species. Animals do

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Speaker 8: not exist exist for our entertainment. Breeding them for public

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Speaker 8: display perpetuates their suffering. Peta calls for an end to

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Speaker 8: this cruel cycle and on zoos to prioritize conservation efforts

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Speaker 8: that protect animals in nature where they truly belong.

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Speaker 2: But as Moudang Zoo has alluded to, every time the

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Speaker 2: subject of merch is broached, it's okay because the money

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Speaker 2: from that merch and all of this increased attendance to

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Speaker 2: see Moudang at the zoo will be put towards animal conservation.

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Speaker 2: And I can't prove that's not true. By all accounts,

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Speaker 2: the ku Kio Open Zoo does its level best to

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Speaker 2: conserve the two thousand animals they have on display. I

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Speaker 2: think PETA's concerns here are well placed, but there has

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Speaker 2: been some dispute as to whether this point of view

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Speaker 2: is globally applicable or if this is putting a more

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Speaker 2: Western view on a zoo with different practices. And Peta

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Speaker 2: is no stranger to scandals themselves, including inordinately high euthanasia

433
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,160
Speaker 2: rates of pets who enter their shelters. And what's more,

434
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 2: Heata's narrative has been refuted by a different animal rights group,

435
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:16,359
Speaker 2: the Thai Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals.

436
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:21,159
Speaker 2: This comes from Thai news outlet Niona Pologies for pronunciation

437
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 2: or the Frontline.

438
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 8: The past care of Mudang has been good to a

439
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 8: certain extent, according to the international standard system that is

440
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 8: accepted worldwide. However, if we want to take better care

441
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 8: of it, we should take care of the temporary environment,

442
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 8: such as the group of monkeys that came to steal

443
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 8: its food and other things.

444
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 3: I would like to encourage.

445
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 8: The workers who take care of this little star ambassador,

446
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 8: who has created a phenomenon on behalf of people all

447
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 8: over the world, to turn back to take care of

448
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 8: animals for conservation.

449
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 2: And even so, this argument isn't really selling me on

450
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 2: the idea of zoo's being viable. This representative is saying

451
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 2: that the treatment of Moodang is technically up to international standards,

452
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 2: but that doesn't eliminate the idea that allowing animals to

453
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 2: be on display for profit might not be ethical. It's

454
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 2: a really complicated issue, but for the moment, there's no

455
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 2: doubt that Moodang will remain at the zoo until further notice,

456
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 2: and that at the very least the zoo has been

457
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 2: responsive to changing things in order to ensure her comfort,

458
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 2: all while keeping her and her family on display. And finally,

459
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 2: it wouldn't be a mid twenty twenties press circuit without

460
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 2: an irrational New York Post attempt to cancel a baby hippo.

461
00:29:55,000 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 8: Come on, could Moudang be canceled? Leaked videos show those

462
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 8: famed baby hippo biting zoo worker kind of mean. A

463
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 8: late September video shot inside months old Moodang's enclosure within

464
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 8: Thailand's Chamberry Zoo showed the feisty female coming at her

465
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 8: caretaker while he was attempting to hose her down. Commenting

466
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 8: on the widely circulated video, one person accused the animal

467
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 8: of being quote kind of mean. According to The Daily Mail.

468
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 3: Can we be serious?

469
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 2: We can't be serious? And weirdly, this story might all

470
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 2: sound a little familiar because it repeats the same pattern

471
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 2: we saw with a different celebrity hippo god celebrity hippo

472
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 2: Jamie said on her podcast and was dead serious. There

473
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 2: was a second celebrity hippo. In twenty seventeen, the Cincinnati

474
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 2: Zoo found their star.

475
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 4: In Fiona the Hippo, from premature baby to bona fide brand,

476
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 4: featured on merchandise, given her own.

477
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 3: Ice cream plate, Chunky Chunky Hippo, even a.

478
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 4: Campaign to make her Time magazine Person of the Year.

479
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 2: In the world, including me watched as Fiona the Hippo recovered,

480
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:14,720
Speaker 2: the zoo posted videos of her in neonatal intensive care,

481
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 2: being bottle fed, and even her first steps were documented

482
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 2: and posted to a massive public response. And Fiona's arc

483
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 2: was very similar to Mudang's. After she was finally safe

484
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 2: and healthy, attendance at the zoo swelled to record highs.

485
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 2: In twenty seventeen, there was March, There was a bespoke

486
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 2: ice cream flavor, and this was all said to be

487
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 2: created in order to sustain the animal conservation efforts on site.

488
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 2: When Fiona became a star, the Zoo's Facebook following more

489
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 2: than doubled. And if this isn't and if this is

490
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 2: any indication of things to come, Fiona's popularity has held

491
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 2: strong after she was no longer a tiping little hippo.

492
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 2: So it's very likely that Moudanng will be here to

493
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 2: stay too. So I know how I feel about zoos,

494
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 2: and I know that how I feel isn't going to

495
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 2: shut it down. It's wonderful that there are meaningful conservation

496
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 2: efforts being done with the money that zoo business generates,

497
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 2: but I don't know that that's a fair way to

498
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 2: justify the whole operation without examining whether it's actually healthy

499
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 2: for the animals to be visually exploited for humans in

500
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 2: order to preserve a species that is dying because of humans.

501
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 2: This is a story we see again and again, going

502
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,959
Speaker 2: back to the pre Internet days. I'm no expert, so

503
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 2: I turn to one and when we come back, we

504
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 2: talk about the ethics of the Moodng phenomenon with zoologist

505
00:32:48,800 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 2: Oliver aka Doctor Wildlife. Welcome back to sixteenth minute. I

506
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 2: can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm currently embroiled in

507
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 2: some serious snoopy drama.

508
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 7: Ah no dogs hard.

509
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 2: There are indeed two warring factions of snoopy fans online.

510
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 2: In one corner, an ardent leftist shout out to daily snoopies.

511
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 2: In the other, corner, an account which randomly endorsed Donald

512
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 2: Trump with an AI generated image of Snoopy shaking Charlie

513
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 2: Brown donald Trump's hand. Fuck You Snoopy Weekly. If the

514
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 2: story sticks around, maybe I'll cover it, But for the moment,

515
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 2: I'm actually really busy this week fighting in the trenches

516
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 2: on behalf of Daily Snoopies Fuck Snoopy Weekly, and this

517
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 2: week we are getting to the bottom of one of

518
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 2: this election year's most successful viral stars. The kaw Qio

519
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 2: opened Zoos Pigmy Hippo, Baby Diva Moo Dang. To understand

520
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 2: Moodang's moment, I wanted to speak with someone who has

521
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 2: studied zoology and was open to the argument against zoos,

522
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 2: and most importantly, someone who understands the major appeal of

523
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 2: viral zoo animals. So here's my chat with Oliver aka

524
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 2: Doctor Wildlife, a zoologist working in Toronto Enjoy.

525
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 3: My name is Oliver, though most people online or otherwise

526
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:38,360
Speaker 3: know me as doctor Wildlife. I'm a zoologist with sixteen

527
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:41,799
Speaker 3: years of experience working in zoos and aquariums, starting as

528
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:45,759
Speaker 3: a zoo keeper and eventually moving into management roles. I've

529
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 3: had the privilege of working with so many different animals.

530
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:51,920
Speaker 3: And it's funny because people ask me that and they're like, well,

531
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:53,719
Speaker 3: what have you worked with? And I think it's better

532
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 3: to say, like, what haven't I worked with? But I've

533
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:00,720
Speaker 3: worked with things from really tiny pigmy marmosets, African elephants,

534
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 3: nile crocodiles, so many different birds, and pretty much everything

535
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:07,399
Speaker 3: in between. My research and largely what my degrees were

536
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:11,440
Speaker 3: focused on, though, was with tigers, specifically their behavior and conservation.

537
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 3: But out of all of that, I would say my

538
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:16,280
Speaker 3: biggest passion is science communication.

539
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 2: So how did you first become interested in zoology? How

540
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:22,759
Speaker 2: did you first sort of decide that this was going

541
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:23,439
Speaker 2: to be your path?

542
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 3: So funny enough, I actually was working towards being a

543
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:30,799
Speaker 3: veterinarian because I feel like every kid, when you're young

544
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:33,480
Speaker 3: and you're interested in animals, the whole world is like

545
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:35,440
Speaker 3: be a vet, Be a vet, Be a vet, because

546
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 3: a lot of people don't understand there's a lot of

547
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:39,879
Speaker 3: other animal careers out there. There's all sorts of things

548
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:43,279
Speaker 3: that require different kinds of degrees or no degrees at all,

549
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:45,879
Speaker 3: but it's very interested in being a vet. I grew

550
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 3: up on a farm in the middle of nowhere in Arkansas,

551
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:51,879
Speaker 3: of all places, I was around animals a lot, whether

552
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 3: wild or the animals on our farm. So I had

553
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:58,920
Speaker 3: a keen interest, and I decided that I wanted to

554
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 3: be a zoo veterinarians, so someone that specialized in zoo

555
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 3: and aquarium work, and to get in the vet school

556
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 3: of any kind, it's it's way harder than just med

557
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:12,400
Speaker 3: school surprisingly to get into, especially if you're wanting to

558
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:14,360
Speaker 3: be a zuova. Everybody wants to work with the lions

559
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:16,799
Speaker 3: and tigers, and so I was like, I'm going to

560
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,319
Speaker 3: do a lot of internships to make myself stand out.

561
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 3: And it wasn't until I started interning with tigers that

562
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 3: I feel like the whole trajectory of my life changed.

563
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:30,360
Speaker 2: One of the things that I was researching and hadn't

564
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:34,279
Speaker 2: really looked into in some time before starting research for

565
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 2: this episode that I've seen come up around Moudng is

566
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:42,720
Speaker 2: the argument around the ethical nature of zoos. It seems

567
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 2: like you've worked at a wide variety of places with animals,

568
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 2: at sanctuaries, at zoos, and elsewhere. From your perspective, because

569
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 2: I'm coming in pretty cold, what are your feelings around

570
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 2: that issue?

571
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 3: Do you want me a single person that works in

572
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 3: the zoo, aquarium or sanctuary world that doesn't dream of

573
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:06,280
Speaker 3: a reality where the animals under their care are out

574
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 3: in the wild and lush, thriving environments, being safe, secure,

575
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 3: not poached, and all these issues. Every single person is

576
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 3: of that mindset, and I think that's like a very

577
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:20,240
Speaker 3: big common ground that a lot of people don't think about.

578
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:23,320
Speaker 3: When you think about the world of zoos and aquariums

579
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 3: as having sides, I don't necessarily see it as sides.

580
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:31,359
Speaker 3: I think it's all one crazy mixture because the zoo

581
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:35,640
Speaker 3: aquarium world is surprisingly complicated. There's a lot of different

582
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 3: aspects to it. When it comes to people who don't

583
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:41,920
Speaker 3: find them ethical, there is a difference between people that

584
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 3: believe that because of their own personal morals, just personal

585
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 3: compass of not wanting to see animals contained, and then

586
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 3: there's kind of a combo of people who see them

587
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 3: as unethical because they don't think there's welfare standards or

588
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:00,960
Speaker 3: any of that. And that's largely what I focus on

589
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 3: helping people understand that the modern zoo and aquarium is

590
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 3: very different than the zoos and aquariums of the past.

591
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 3: That being said, not every zoo or aquarium is up

592
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 3: to the same standards. But overall, there's crediting boards these

593
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 3: days that take accreditation very seriously. They have inspections, random inspections.

594
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:23,239
Speaker 3: There's a lot of regulatory boards. There's so many zoos

595
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:26,719
Speaker 3: and aquariums to this day and age that provide such

596
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 3: amazing care that I mean, I visit some places and

597
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,760
Speaker 3: when I see their habitats, I can easily be reduced

598
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 3: to tears because I'm like, Okay, this is how you

599
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 3: do a zoo habitat right, this is how you do

600
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 3: an aquarium habitat right. Overall, I do agree that there

601
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:48,319
Speaker 3: are unethical places out there, but by and large, I

602
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:52,839
Speaker 3: don't think the field itself is, especially with modern technology

603
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 3: and standards that I'm into play. We're always learning, I guess,

604
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 3: is the best way to put it.

605
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:00,759
Speaker 2: I noticed that the zoo that Mudang is at is

606
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:05,360
Speaker 2: a for profit zoo. The zoo in Cincinnati that Fiona

607
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 2: is at is a nonprofit zoo. Are there different regulations

608
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 2: for a for profit versus a nonprofit?

609
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:11,759
Speaker 8: I just did.

610
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:14,880
Speaker 2: I didn't understand if that is a deciding factor of

611
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:16,800
Speaker 2: the kind of care and animal might receive.

612
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:21,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, so funny enough. It ultimately isn't that big of

613
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:25,360
Speaker 3: a difference just because of those factors. I used to

614
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 3: think so, like I used to be firmly against anything

615
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:33,080
Speaker 3: for profit in the animal world, especially in zoos and aquariums,

616
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 3: because I'm like, Okay, these places are meant to be

617
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 3: educational institutions or doing conservation work, So what's a for

618
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 3: profit venture doing in this reality? But ultimately, something that

619
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 3: affects standards and such more is mainly what area of

620
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:51,360
Speaker 3: the world they're in. But also, I mean, you know,

621
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 3: I say that there's a lot of nonprofit zoos, aquariums,

622
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:58,919
Speaker 3: sanctuaries in the United States that aren't accredited, don't meet

623
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:03,319
Speaker 3: standards at all, but they're nonprofit. So I guess yeah,

624
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 3: And I guess the best way to answer your question

625
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 3: is actually a terrible way to answer it, with it

626
00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 3: being just it really depends, because there's the whole world

627
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 3: is just incredibly complex, and that world being Susan aquariums.

628
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 3: I have actually worked at a for profit facility before

629
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:26,400
Speaker 3: that is accredited, that provides great standards. It feels like

630
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:28,320
Speaker 3: it's kind of when you walk in there, it's like

631
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 3: a living rainforest rather than what most people picture a

632
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 3: zoo beinge which is small cages or things like that.

633
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 3: I mean, really no place is like that anymore. But

634
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:39,200
Speaker 3: you know, and it's for profit, and I've always joked

635
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:41,319
Speaker 3: that it kind of felt like I like I was

636
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 3: working at Jurassic Park because because of the for profit

637
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 3: nature and such, it felt like there was a lot

638
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 3: more spending available for buying things, to the point that

639
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 3: every plant in every habitat was an authentic plant species

640
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:57,840
Speaker 3: from the animal's habitat, you know, bought from greenhouses, of course,

641
00:40:57,880 --> 00:40:59,879
Speaker 3: but they were all living. There was no fake plan,

642
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:01,719
Speaker 3: and that was because we had the funding to be

643
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 3: able to do it. Of course, for profit doesn't always

644
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 3: mean that level. It could mean bad things too, so

645
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 3: you really have to kind of look at every little aspect.

646
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 2: I guess hypothetical situation that is completely true. Let's say,

647
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 2: so I have these complicated feelings around zoos. However, I

648
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:23,880
Speaker 2: don't really feel comfortable telling my cousins with my nieces

649
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:25,880
Speaker 2: and nephews to be like, don't bring your kids to

650
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 2: a zoo, don't teach your children about animals. I understand

651
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 2: that that's kind of a non starter. So if you

652
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:36,439
Speaker 2: are a family with kids and you want them to

653
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,759
Speaker 2: learn about animals in a hands on way. What is

654
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:42,000
Speaker 2: the best way for the average person to make sure

655
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:45,920
Speaker 2: that where they're going and what they're choosing is an

656
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:46,840
Speaker 2: ethical option.

657
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 3: Ooh, that is a fantastic question. I think the first

658
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:55,279
Speaker 3: step would be to use the Association of Zoos and

659
00:41:55,320 --> 00:42:00,160
Speaker 3: Aquarium's website to check if a place that you or

660
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 3: intending on visiting as accredited or not. I think it

661
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:05,160
Speaker 3: says like find Zoos and Aquariums. There's something very obvious,

662
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:09,279
Speaker 3: but any case, you can look up every accredited animal facility.

663
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:12,920
Speaker 3: That being said, AZA is not necessarily you know, not

664
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:16,560
Speaker 3: all good facilities are AZA accredited, and not every facility

665
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:19,439
Speaker 3: that's AZA accredited may meet what I would personally say

666
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 3: is like my personal standard of a place that I

667
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:24,759
Speaker 3: would personally go to. But it's a good starting point.

668
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 3: You can look at it and you can be like, Okay, well,

669
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:29,560
Speaker 3: I at least know that they're meeting standards on top

670
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 3: of what government regulations are, which are minimal, and then

671
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 3: AZA step up. It's things like, you know, they have

672
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 3: to meet certain vet standards, they have to have certain

673
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:42,319
Speaker 3: types of vet care and nutrition enrichment for animals. All

674
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 3: the extra stuff the government regulations don't really look into.

675
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:48,240
Speaker 3: Good starting point. Another place to kind of look into

676
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:52,080
Speaker 3: is seeing how they interact with their animals all the time.

677
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:55,359
Speaker 3: If a place is allowing interaction between the public and

678
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 3: big cats, that's a big no no. It sounds silly

679
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:00,440
Speaker 3: to say. Okay, on one hands, you have these like

680
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:02,800
Speaker 3: prestigious zoos, and on the other hand you have higer

681
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 3: king type places. The scary part is all the places

682
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:08,919
Speaker 3: in between where sometimes you can't really tell. So it's

683
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 3: looking for if it's easy a and then kind of

684
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 3: looking into how do the keepers interact with the animals there,

685
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:18,719
Speaker 3: and how does the public interact. That's not to say

686
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:23,000
Speaker 3: that any place as public interaction is automatically bad. It's

687
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 3: more about what frequency they do it, what species that's

688
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:29,760
Speaker 3: involved with what you're allowed to do. It does require

689
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:31,480
Speaker 3: a bit of research, but if someone wants to do

690
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 3: the nice and easy route, we all have busy lives,

691
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 3: right so aza go on there. You can use the

692
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:39,759
Speaker 3: find one near you search and easily find something that

693
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:41,360
Speaker 3: meets higher standards.

694
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:44,279
Speaker 2: So I wanted to switch gears a little bit and

695
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:47,880
Speaker 2: talk about the role of social media and animal education.

696
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:51,439
Speaker 2: So because you've been in this space for sixteen years now.

697
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 2: How have zoologists changed in the way that they use

698
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:57,000
Speaker 2: the Internet to educate in the time you've been in

699
00:43:57,040 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 2: this field.

700
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:02,080
Speaker 3: Oh, they've changed tremendously and I've all seeing a zoologists

701
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 3: also is using aquariums starting to be more informal about

702
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:08,880
Speaker 3: how they educate. I think one of the most amazing

703
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:12,800
Speaker 3: examples of that is Monterey Bay Aquariums social media presence

704
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:16,200
Speaker 3: doing tweets, Like my favorite one that they did was

705
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 3: they tweeted just the ocean. That's all they said, like

706
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 3: the ocean, and it got like I say, millions of likes.

707
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 3: It's probably it's not that high, but thousands of likes

708
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:28,359
Speaker 3: and retweets. And sometimes they would just tweet something with

709
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 3: like short silly things, and you know, old fashioned educators

710
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:35,279
Speaker 3: or zoologists may look at that and be like, well,

711
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:37,239
Speaker 3: what is this doing? Well, okay, you tell me how.

712
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:39,920
Speaker 3: You know it's so excited about a sea urchin, right, Like,

713
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:42,840
Speaker 3: how are you gonna get someone to care about those animals?

714
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:47,160
Speaker 3: So I think scientists, zoologists, I'll you know, whatever title

715
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:50,399
Speaker 3: they hold, you started using the Internet in very interesting ways.

716
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:52,560
Speaker 3: Of course, twitch is a whole other side of that, right,

717
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:54,920
Speaker 3: not being afraid to get on there and be silly,

718
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:57,920
Speaker 3: play games that are educational or maybe even just a

719
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 3: fraction educational, but talking about animals while doing it. I

720
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:03,520
Speaker 3: keep saying it's the year of science on Twitter and Twitch.

721
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 2: God, I hope so that would be very excise crossed.

722
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:11,360
Speaker 2: I would love to see science get trash beg a

723
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:12,240
Speaker 2: lot of other.

724
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:18,560
Speaker 3: Things begging into the sky right now at that, I hope, so.

725
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:22,960
Speaker 2: Sort of talking about these social media juggernaut animals that

726
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:26,799
Speaker 2: I mean, I think that there's so many examples of this,

727
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:30,759
Speaker 2: obviously pre dating social media that are more reliant on

728
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:35,080
Speaker 2: marketing narratives, but on social media, the zoo does not

729
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:38,640
Speaker 2: quite have control over the narrative as they once did.

730
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:41,399
Speaker 2: How did you find out about MoU dang? And where

731
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 2: does your head go when you see an animal suddenly

732
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 2: become famous?

733
00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:49,279
Speaker 3: No, it's so funny. I just feel like that little

734
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 3: hippo just appeared so suddenly that I can't exactly remember

735
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:56,680
Speaker 3: where was the first place I saw them. The first

736
00:45:57,320 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 3: moment that I can like directly really remember is something

737
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:04,120
Speaker 3: really funny. Was one of my friends sharing a video

738
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:07,480
Speaker 3: that I don't know who the original creator of it

739
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 3: was and I can't remember what all was in the video,

740
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 3: but I it was moo as a kaiju like big

741
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 3: like god Zilla destroying a city. And one of my

742
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:18,080
Speaker 3: friends sent it to me and they're like, is this

743
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 3: a real behavior that hippos have as a joke? And

744
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:21,759
Speaker 3: I was like, yeah, trust me, I'm a zoo oda

745
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 3: just that's exactly what happens. And then from that moment onward,

746
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:28,840
Speaker 3: I just feel like the hippo is taken over every

747
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 3: everybody's brain. And you see all these edits on TikTok

748
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:35,640
Speaker 3: and such. Yeah, and my first thought, of course, is well,

749
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 3: I'm very easily entertained. I'm a very simple person, and

750
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 3: I love anything with that baby hippo right now, just

751
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:42,640
Speaker 3: like all of us. I guess I try not to

752
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:46,960
Speaker 3: be cynical what is the viral animal at first? But

753
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:48,759
Speaker 3: in the day and age of where there's all these

754
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 3: social media accounts that just pump out content regardless of

755
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:56,279
Speaker 3: what the background is and such. If something doesn't have

756
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 3: context behind it, I'm always a little skeptical at first. Usually,

757
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 3: and I see just an animal video going viral, my

758
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:04,799
Speaker 3: first concern is like, Okay, well, where is this from,

759
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:06,920
Speaker 3: what's the story behind it, I'll do a little bit

760
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 3: of research. Not everybody does that. That's why I'm a

761
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:11,399
Speaker 3: big proponent of if you're posting animal content, at least

762
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:13,239
Speaker 3: give some sort of background info. Right now, I don't

763
00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 3: think there needs to be background info because everybody knows

764
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:18,120
Speaker 3: this hippo. Everybody knows who this hippo is.

765
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:21,920
Speaker 2: At this point, what can and should zoos and zoo

766
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:26,239
Speaker 2: keepers do to protect their animals from this kind of

767
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:28,919
Speaker 2: sudden surge of attention because it seemed like it took

768
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:30,520
Speaker 2: it took the zoo a second to be like, well,

769
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:33,120
Speaker 2: hold on, and they made all these adjustments, like they

770
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:37,920
Speaker 2: made adjustments to make it safe for mudang. But in

771
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:40,520
Speaker 2: the age of social media where this is apparently a risk,

772
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 2: what should professionals do to sort of be prepared for that?

773
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:46,160
Speaker 2: And what would you recommend?

774
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:50,719
Speaker 3: You asking this question kind of like just in this

775
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:54,480
Speaker 3: moment gave you this idea. It's like you almost need someone.

776
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:57,840
Speaker 3: I feel like there should be a workshop for zoos

777
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:01,200
Speaker 3: or some sort of training that it's like a preemptive.

778
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:03,880
Speaker 3: It's kind of like what to do when your animal

779
00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:07,400
Speaker 3: goes viral? Kind of course, because you know, say you

780
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:10,279
Speaker 3: start posting like Bob the Elephant. I'm just trying to

781
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:13,279
Speaker 3: come up with something that doesn't maybe doesn't exist, but

782
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:16,920
Speaker 3: Bob the Elephant goes viral. You could post something and

783
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 3: a million times of that elephant and it doesn't go anywhere.

784
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:21,719
Speaker 3: It's like two likes, and then you just happened to

785
00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:25,399
Speaker 3: tweet the right video and caption combo and it has

786
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:27,920
Speaker 3: to be you know, it's filmed in just the correct

787
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:31,080
Speaker 3: way or cut in the correct way, and you wake

788
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:33,480
Speaker 3: up and you have thousands of likes, and then from

789
00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:35,840
Speaker 3: there it just grows and grows. And this is something

790
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:38,560
Speaker 3: you know, I know it didn't take exactly just one

791
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:42,360
Speaker 3: day for her to become like this, but in reality,

792
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:43,960
Speaker 3: it is kind of like the blink of an eye.

793
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:47,000
Speaker 3: You don't really have time to prepare. So I feel

794
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:50,200
Speaker 3: like the best way for zoo keepers or anybody in

795
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:52,920
Speaker 3: animal care that's that's listening to this and curious, or

796
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:54,799
Speaker 3: just people curious in general, I think the best way

797
00:48:54,880 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 3: is to just learn from all these situations and really yourself,

798
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:02,920
Speaker 3: or at least have someone on your team or at

799
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:05,000
Speaker 3: the zoo that immerses themselves in social media. And I'm

800
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:07,680
Speaker 3: not talking about just someone that's familiar with how to

801
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:09,840
Speaker 3: do social media or marketing, and I'm talking about be

802
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:14,359
Speaker 3: immersed in internet culture. Unfortunately, I make a little sad

803
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:16,720
Speaker 3: sound as I say that, this unfortunately means being familiar

804
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:21,360
Speaker 3: with memes and understanding how things go viral, and I

805
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:24,600
Speaker 3: think from that you can kind of prepare yourself as

806
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:27,279
Speaker 3: best as you can. It's unfortunate that there really is

807
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:30,200
Speaker 3: no tried and true way to protect against things, because

808
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:33,000
Speaker 3: it's like, who would have expected that people would go

809
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:36,520
Speaker 3: somewhere and grow things to try and get the animal's attention.

810
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:40,160
Speaker 3: People that do those things too, it's not always malicious.

811
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:42,920
Speaker 3: It's people that just don't think about their actions and

812
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:44,640
Speaker 3: the impact it has on animals. They just want to

813
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:46,360
Speaker 3: be entertained, and that's right.

814
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 2: There's like that level of entitlement, which I feel like

815
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:51,800
Speaker 2: goes back to the argument about like, well, should zoos

816
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:54,160
Speaker 2: exist if there's always going to be bad actors?

817
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:55,799
Speaker 3: You know, I've been at zoos that have the most

818
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:58,239
Speaker 3: amazing signage in the whole world, and you know, do

819
00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:01,440
Speaker 3: everything they can for it, will recommend people for their

820
00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 3: bad behavior when they catch them. But there's these people

821
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:05,960
Speaker 3: that just don't care. And I always say that a

822
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:08,719
Speaker 3: lot of that bad behavior continues because no one has

823
00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:11,120
Speaker 3: ever told them no in their entire lives, you know,

824
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:12,279
Speaker 3: from the moment they were born.

825
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:18,120
Speaker 2: My last question is what can zoos and zoo keepers

826
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:22,759
Speaker 2: kind of take away from the mudang osaga. From the

827
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:26,720
Speaker 2: huge public response to this little baby hippo.

828
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:29,720
Speaker 3: I think the biggest thing is realizing that baby hippo

829
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:32,200
Speaker 3: fans are about to be like, get their pitchforks up

830
00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:34,520
Speaker 3: in an instant, but please please hold them for a moment.

831
00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:37,080
Speaker 3: As I say this, I think zoo keepers and zoos

832
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:40,720
Speaker 3: aquariums need to realize this baby hippo. It's gonna sound terrible.

833
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:45,360
Speaker 3: She is not unique. And I say that and people

834
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:47,759
Speaker 3: are like and she's unique in the sense that she

835
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:50,600
Speaker 3: has her own personality. You know, she is unique in

836
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:52,920
Speaker 3: that way. But what I guess I'm saying is she

837
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:56,400
Speaker 3: doesn't have this magical spell on her or this special

838
00:50:56,480 --> 00:51:00,120
Speaker 3: quality that just makes her like the only baby hippo

839
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:02,120
Speaker 3: in the entire world that can be famous. And we know,

840
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:04,839
Speaker 3: of course from Fiona that's it's already not true. But

841
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:07,520
Speaker 3: I guess what I'm saying as this sounds mean, But

842
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:10,160
Speaker 3: what I mean is your animals. You know, if you're

843
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:12,640
Speaker 3: a zoo keeper listening to this. Your animals are just

844
00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:15,120
Speaker 3: as important, They're just as awesome, And all it takes

845
00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:17,480
Speaker 3: is kind of the right way of communicating about them,

846
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:19,919
Speaker 3: the white right way of talking to guests about them

847
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:23,040
Speaker 3: to make them get the same level of attention. And

848
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:25,680
Speaker 3: I think it's really important for animals to get this

849
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:28,960
Speaker 3: level of attention. So many animals that aren't fortunate enough

850
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:32,759
Speaker 3: to be as charismatic as say a tiger or a

851
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:36,839
Speaker 3: giant pandas that doesn't mean that they're less worthy of

852
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:40,200
Speaker 3: being conserved or cared for or having attention on them.

853
00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:43,360
Speaker 3: And it doesn't mean that your friendly little tarantla that

854
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:46,799
Speaker 3: you work with at an aquarium will never get the

855
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:50,200
Speaker 3: level of virality as this hippo has. All it means

856
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:52,040
Speaker 3: is you may need to change how you're talking about

857
00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:55,080
Speaker 3: them to get this attention. I'm not saying everybody should

858
00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:57,759
Speaker 3: strive to be just as viral, as we've already talked about,

859
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:02,560
Speaker 3: it can be a negative thing. It brings a lot

860
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:06,040
Speaker 3: of awareness, and I just wanted to mention that, you know,

861
00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:09,440
Speaker 3: one of my favorite projects that I've had the opportunity

862
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:11,640
Speaker 3: of reading and viewing and even meeting the creator up

863
00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:15,360
Speaker 3: was photo Arc by Joel Satori, and I made me

864
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:19,160
Speaker 3: mispronouncing his name ever so slightly if so. Apologies, but

865
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:23,239
Speaker 3: Joel created photo Arc as a way to inspire people

866
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:25,359
Speaker 3: to help save at risk species before it's too late.

867
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:27,440
Speaker 3: In what photo Arc is is just what it sounds like.

868
00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:32,320
Speaker 3: He is working towards photographing every animal under human care

869
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:34,959
Speaker 3: anywhere in the world, and he does so through these

870
00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:38,520
Speaker 3: amazing what you would call like intimate portraits where it's

871
00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:41,239
Speaker 3: I jokingly told somebody the other day, it's like the

872
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:43,359
Speaker 3: animal got taken to J. C. Penny and got put

873
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:46,040
Speaker 3: in front of that's dating myself, I guess. But some

874
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:48,160
Speaker 3: of those photos that he takes are the last chance

875
00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:52,400
Speaker 3: these animals have to get attention before they unfortunately go extinct.

876
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:55,520
Speaker 3: And you know, this is an extreme example, but there

877
00:52:55,680 --> 00:52:58,720
Speaker 3: was a frog species, very cute one though some people

878
00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:02,760
Speaker 3: may argue not cute, called a Rabs fringe limb tree frog,

879
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:06,680
Speaker 3: and these guys went extinct in Panama due to a

880
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:12,319
Speaker 3: fungus that was spread by human activity that's decimated amphibian populations.

881
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:15,400
Speaker 3: And this Rab's fringeland tree frog actually went completely extinct

882
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:18,000
Speaker 3: in Panama. And there was only one individual left, and

883
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:20,840
Speaker 3: Joel took a lot of amazing photos of this animal,

884
00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:23,120
Speaker 3: and a few of years later that animal passed away.

885
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:26,240
Speaker 3: And now that animals, that species is gone. It's just gone.

886
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:30,560
Speaker 3: And this is an extreme example. But pygmy hippo, who

887
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:34,840
Speaker 3: really thought about them before? Right? Who thought about this species?

888
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:36,879
Speaker 3: And if it wasn't for her, who would have known

889
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:40,680
Speaker 3: they even existed. Same thing with so many countless other

890
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:43,680
Speaker 3: species and a lot of people. You know, this goes

891
00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:46,880
Speaker 3: to general public, but also the zoo keepers listening. The

892
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:48,719
Speaker 3: world's a very scary place right now for a lot

893
00:53:48,719 --> 00:53:52,160
Speaker 3: of reasons. The environment. I mean, we have a giant

894
00:53:52,239 --> 00:53:56,719
Speaker 3: hurricane coming and temperatures and all these climate crisis is

895
00:53:56,840 --> 00:54:00,080
Speaker 3: environmental issues and coaching and such. It's hard not to

896
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:02,839
Speaker 3: get negative. It's hard not to be pestimistic and be like, well,

897
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:04,680
Speaker 3: this is it. We tried, there's nothing we can do.

898
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:07,040
Speaker 3: But there's a lot of good left in the world.

899
00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:09,720
Speaker 3: There's a lot of good people willing to do good things.

900
00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:12,080
Speaker 3: They just need to be armed with that information. They

901
00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:14,800
Speaker 3: need to be aware, and they need to be able

902
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:20,000
Speaker 3: to relate to these animals. And as silly as picturing

903
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:23,520
Speaker 3: this hippo as like a Godzilla type kaiju destroying a city.

904
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:26,200
Speaker 3: As silly as those things are, as unrelated to science

905
00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:29,680
Speaker 3: as they are. Who would have thought that it could

906
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:32,600
Speaker 3: have gotten this many people to care about pigmy hippospecies.

907
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:35,640
Speaker 3: So I guess to summarize that, it's every animal has

908
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:38,480
Speaker 3: a chance to be just as special. I encourage people

909
00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:40,640
Speaker 3: to take a look at how they can talk about

910
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:43,520
Speaker 3: their animals in entertaining ways, go out of the box,

911
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:44,560
Speaker 3: be a little weird with it.

912
00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:47,520
Speaker 2: Oh Oliver, thank you so much for joining us and

913
00:54:47,560 --> 00:54:52,120
Speaker 2: for just speaking so thoughtfully. It's so nice to spend

914
00:54:52,160 --> 00:54:54,200
Speaker 2: a little time with you and really feel your passion

915
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:55,359
Speaker 2: for what you do.

916
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:57,919
Speaker 3: Absolutely, thank you so much for having me and being

917
00:54:57,920 --> 00:54:58,880
Speaker 3: interested in chatting.

918
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:02,319
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to Oliver for their time, and

919
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:04,479
Speaker 2: you can follow their work more over at the link

920
00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:08,280
Speaker 2: in the description. So where does Moodang go from here?

921
00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:11,440
Speaker 2: If she's anything like Fiona the hippo, she'll be a

922
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:14,040
Speaker 2: source of income for her zoo of residence for a

923
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:17,440
Speaker 2: long time to come, and it's very possible that that

924
00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:21,359
Speaker 2: money will be used to preserve her species. But as

925
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:24,359
Speaker 2: we said before in the last few weeks, the ku

926
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:28,120
Speaker 2: Kio Open Zoo has made an effort to formally trademark

927
00:55:28,239 --> 00:55:32,400
Speaker 2: Moudang's image, not to protect her from being commercialized, but

928
00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:36,959
Speaker 2: to make certain that only they could commercialize her. Can

929
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:37,680
Speaker 2: we do better?

930
00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:38,640
Speaker 7: I hope so.

931
00:55:39,120 --> 00:55:42,839
Speaker 2: But in the meantime, give my girl the hose anytime

932
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:48,120
Speaker 2: she fucking wants it. Moodang, the baby Hippo. May You're

933
00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:56,600
Speaker 2: fifteen minutes, never end baby, And for your moment of fun,

934
00:55:57,000 --> 00:56:00,360
Speaker 2: here's a cursed mood Dang parody song from the Edge,

935
00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:01,280
Speaker 2: New Zealand.

936
00:56:01,880 --> 00:56:03,240
Speaker 3: Long May she rain.

937
00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:11,400
Speaker 8: You my little mood eh pig me Hippo and the

938
00:56:11,480 --> 00:56:11,920
Speaker 8: zoo thing.

939
00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:14,279
Speaker 3: Yeah we know, because hey, you so famous.

940
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:16,239
Speaker 10: The most decision scene, I am less.

941
00:56:16,280 --> 00:56:16,520
Speaker 4: Yeah.

942
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:19,080
Speaker 8: We see the names on memes, on memes.

943
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:21,440
Speaker 3: Fans signing up just to hear them scream. It's all

944
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:22,840
Speaker 3: memes on memes on names.

945
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:24,120
Speaker 1: It's too much fame for us.

946
00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:25,120
Speaker 7: The Prey Little Being.

947
00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:32,279
Speaker 2: Sixteenth Minute is a production of Cool Zone Media and

948
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:36,040
Speaker 2: iHeart Rodeos. It is written, hosted, and produced by me

949
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:40,320
Speaker 2: Jamie Lostis. Our executive producers are Sophie Lickterman and Robert Evans.

950
00:56:40,560 --> 00:56:44,680
Speaker 2: The Amazing Ian Johnson is our supervising producer and our editor.

951
00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:46,240
Speaker 1: Our theme song.

952
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:47,520
Speaker 7: Is by Sad thirteen.

953
00:56:48,120 --> 00:56:51,600
Speaker 2: Voice acting is from Grant Crater and pet Shout outs

954
00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:54,520
Speaker 2: to our dog producer Anderson, my cat's flee and Casper,

955
00:56:54,640 --> 00:56:57,080
Speaker 2: and my pet rock Bert, who will outlive us all.

956
00:56:57,400 --> 00:56:57,800
Speaker 1: Bye.