WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 52 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:02.680 Hey, everybody, Robert Evans here and I wanted to let 0:00:02.720 --> 0:00:06.359 you know this is a compilation episode, so every episode 0:00:06.480 --> 0:00:09.600 of the week that just happened is here in one 0:00:09.680 --> 0:00:13.440 convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:15.960 listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 0:00:16.000 --> 0:00:17.919 you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:17.960 --> 0:00:20.119 there's gotta be nothing new here for you, but you 0:00:20.160 --> 0:00:25.400 can make your own decisions. Welcome to assassination week. P Bang, Bang, 0:00:25.920 --> 0:00:36.560 timely expulsive device D C. Hello, welcome to assassination week. 0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:39.479 I hope you like that intro from our good friend 0:00:39.640 --> 0:00:43.840 when we commissioned to do that intro from so big 0:00:43.880 --> 0:00:46.479 props to them for giving us like ten seconds of 0:00:46.520 --> 0:00:50.240 their time to record that intro. Wow, it's it's been 0:00:50.280 --> 0:00:54.160 so long since we've been planning to do this. Yep, 0:00:54.320 --> 0:00:58.960 but here we are talking about killing people. It's great 0:00:59.000 --> 0:01:01.880 because would be first thought of assassination week. We're like 0:01:02.200 --> 0:01:05.520 how are we going to fill five episodes there? And 0:01:05.560 --> 0:01:08.639 then there's like so many more assassinations happened, there were, 0:01:08.680 --> 0:01:16.760 there were to the next day. Yeah, yeah, we've decided 0:01:16.800 --> 0:01:20.280 to stop imagining things into the ether and yeah, and 0:01:20.400 --> 0:01:26.720 so maybe assassination month is coming, who knows? Hey. Well, 0:01:26.840 --> 0:01:30.080 here's the thing. If, if people keep getting assassinated, we 0:01:30.120 --> 0:01:34.360 will do more assassination episodes. That is the way it works. Yep, 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:37.959 that's that is, sadly, part of our job. So we've 0:01:37.959 --> 0:01:40.160 already done one, I guess we did. We did Shinzo 0:01:40.240 --> 0:01:42.600 Abe a little bit, but we're coming back to him. Yeah, 0:01:42.600 --> 0:01:46.600 WE'RE gonna WE'RE gonna do we're gonna later because we 0:01:46.640 --> 0:01:49.320 have a lot more context information about the assassination now, 0:01:49.520 --> 0:01:52.040 but that that is later this week. So we have 0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:56.520 we have five episodes all about assassinations, most of which 0:01:56.520 --> 0:01:59.960 have happened or tried to happen this year. Most, most 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:03.920 these are going to be pretty, pretty topical. Yeah, mine 0:02:04.000 --> 0:02:11.680 is not, because I am so we gotta, we we 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:13.040 we we got, we got, we gotta start with the 0:02:13.120 --> 0:02:16.320 historical assassination. We can't, we can't completely have it be 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:19.560 just randomly jumping back and forward between times. There has 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:23.280 to be some kind of logic. Yeah, well, the assassination 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:27.600 is the logic. But yeah, today we're talking about ETA 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:33.000 Basque nationalist Leftist Group and, more specifically, I guess they're 0:02:34.120 --> 0:02:38.720 operation are the killing of Luis Carrero Blanco in Spain 0:02:38.760 --> 0:02:44.400 in nineteen seventy three. It's like obviously not very, very current. 0:02:44.639 --> 0:02:48.800 It's often pointed to is like a very influential assassination, 0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:51.160 right one that made a difference and made a change. 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:55.160 Often it's called the only thing that ever did to 0:02:55.200 --> 0:02:59.320 advance the cause of Spanish democracy, which I think like 0:02:59.520 --> 0:03:02.040 this is, and I'm sorry if you think that they're 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:06.639 like based leftist terrorists. This is not not a generally 0:03:06.840 --> 0:03:09.160 as as an organization, we don't like people who made 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:12.760 the journalists. That's one of US dances, and so there's 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:15.160 going to be a little bit of context around this 0:03:15.240 --> 0:03:17.440 that we need to give first. So maybe if we 0:03:17.520 --> 0:03:19.639 kick off with who they are and then we can 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:23.760 talk about that assassination in particular. How familiar folks do 0:03:23.840 --> 0:03:26.160 we think, with ECTA? What do people know about them 0:03:26.160 --> 0:03:30.080 in us? Not at all. Yeah, people all eat. Okay, 0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:33.200 I think. Well, they're they're I think they're famous for 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:36.200 this assassination and for having literally the worst outfits I've 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:41.880 ever seen in my entire that that that the combination 0:03:42.040 --> 0:03:44.320 of like the face mask in the beret is like 0:03:44.360 --> 0:03:47.160 one of the most unfortunate things I've ever seen. It 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:50.000 is hideous. It is you. You've got just just were 0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:57.560 the mask. It's cooler. AH, batch, it's awful, truly dogshit. Okay, Chris, 0:03:57.560 --> 0:04:00.200 come in with the fashion police early on. I say, 0:04:00.200 --> 0:04:01.720 where what you want. I think you will look great 0:04:02.480 --> 0:04:06.320 and really alienating ski mask and Berry Audience Right at 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:09.400 the start. So if you've, if you've managed to, you know, 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:12.840 stick around through that hate speech, we're going to talk 0:04:12.840 --> 0:04:15.880 about they do. Yeah, they do like to wear a 0:04:15.920 --> 0:04:18.360 ski mask. It's part of an esthetic, isn't it, though, 0:04:18.400 --> 0:04:23.280 like there's an aesthetic of like, I guess eightiesies terrorism 0:04:23.320 --> 0:04:28.479 that is like like woodland pattern kind of DPU Camoufla 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:34.479 dbm camouflage, a cheap black scheme mask, Balaclava and a 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:37.640 berry like sometimes you can pick two of those things, 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:42.000 but it's definitely like a vibe from that time period. HMM, 0:04:42.040 --> 0:04:44.039 I wonder. I wonder why none of these groups worked. 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:47.599 It must have nothing to do with the fashion, to 0:04:47.680 --> 0:04:51.080 be fair, the Zapatista's big scheme mask. Maybe it's the bubble. 0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:53.400 Maybe the bubble is what sets then yeah, it's it's 0:04:53.520 --> 0:04:55.719 it's the fact that yet you don't wear the Barret 0:04:55.839 --> 0:05:00.840 on the ski mask necessities because they just wear the mask. Yeah, okay, 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:02.600 I think we're we're united and I believe that the 0:05:02.680 --> 0:05:06.039 Zapatis does look cool and in many ways are cool. 0:05:06.160 --> 0:05:08.720 In fact, we're not talking about them today. We're talking 0:05:08.760 --> 0:05:12.240 about so it's an acronym right. Um, it's an acronym 0:05:12.400 --> 0:05:15.680 INSCARA or Basque. I don't I don't speak Basque. It's 0:05:15.720 --> 0:05:18.560 a very hard language for me to learn. At least 0:05:18.560 --> 0:05:20.120 I'm not going to say it's a hard language to learn, 0:05:20.160 --> 0:05:21.520 cause I think that depends on who you are, but 0:05:21.600 --> 0:05:24.200 it is one that I have historically struggled with understanding. 0:05:25.080 --> 0:05:31.200 It does have a generous smattering of XS. So you know, 0:05:31.240 --> 0:05:34.120 if you're seeing it out there, good luck to you. 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:36.240 I will try and pronounce things as respectfully as I can. 0:05:36.400 --> 0:05:38.160 I spent a lot of time in the Basque country 0:05:38.480 --> 0:05:40.839 by graceeing. I really, really love Basque people. They're very nice. 0:05:40.880 --> 0:05:44.360 I enjoy their food and their CIDER and their countryside. 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:49.480 But today we're talking about this group ESCAR. It stands 0:05:49.480 --> 0:05:55.880 for you, Scadi, to Askatasuna, which means, like Basque, homeland 0:05:56.000 --> 0:05:59.200 and Liberty, which they were going to call it Ata, 0:05:59.600 --> 0:06:02.400 but in and back down dialects. That means duck so 0:06:02.560 --> 0:06:04.480 they moved away from that. That would have been so 0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:08.359 much funnier. Would write you've been ducked, but they didn't 0:06:08.360 --> 0:06:10.960 do that. They right from the get go they were 0:06:11.000 --> 0:06:14.400 about like like this dual process right of politics and 0:06:14.400 --> 0:06:17.480 political violence. Their slogan means keep up on both sides 0:06:17.560 --> 0:06:20.360 and their logo is like a snake wrapped around the acts. 0:06:20.839 --> 0:06:23.080 The snake is politics and the act is acts is, 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:26.080 I guess, political violence, terrorism, whatever you want to call it. 0:06:26.200 --> 0:06:31.080 And over the years of action they killed eight people, 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:33.960 so that they were pretty serious terrorist group right. Like, 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:36.520 I can't I don't know how many people the IRA 0:06:36.520 --> 0:06:38.600 a killed, but I'm thinking of groups in there. I 0:06:38.600 --> 0:06:40.400 don't think it would be that many killed. Like I 0:06:40.440 --> 0:06:43.080 think they killed like over a thousand. Okay, well, I 0:06:43.080 --> 0:06:45.320 mean I said like the entire troubles killed like thirty. 0:06:46.000 --> 0:06:48.679 So it's like a not significant fraction of that. Yeah, 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:51.080 I mean the British government did a decent amount of 0:06:51.080 --> 0:06:54.520 that and definitely yeah, but like it's a not in 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:56.520 significant fraction of the total number of people who died 0:06:56.560 --> 0:07:00.440 in the troubles. So they're not like nothing, know, but 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:03.000 like it's only up there. And Look, this is much 0:07:03.000 --> 0:07:04.680 of a similar thing as we're going to see right, 0:07:04.720 --> 0:07:07.920 where the Spanish state killed a lot of people too, 0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:13.240 and sort of armed groups acting in sort of coalition 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:15.480 with the Spanish state, it's the safest way to say that, 0:07:15.520 --> 0:07:19.560 but certainly with the complicity of the Spanish state, played 0:07:19.600 --> 0:07:22.520 a large part in this, this dirty war that ETA 0:07:22.640 --> 0:07:26.760 conducted with the Spanish state. Right. And to understand them 0:07:26.800 --> 0:07:30.040 you have to understand a little bit about Basque nationalism, 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:33.000 early Basque nationalism. We we can like find the guy 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:35.560 who really constructs the idea of a Basque nation, right, 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:40.520 and Sabina is the guy. He takes what is like 0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:43.400 a language. It's a very old language, right, predates Latin 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:47.000 and places where that language is spoken, and takes it 0:07:47.120 --> 0:07:49.400 from like these are the areas where this language is 0:07:49.440 --> 0:07:52.440 spoken to like this is our nation, and all nations 0:07:52.440 --> 0:07:55.640 are created, right, like nations don't come from the primordial soup, 0:07:55.880 --> 0:08:01.080 like we don't evolve into one nation or another. An abrogation. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:05.240 they they're constructed by like entrepreneurs identity for which war 0:08:05.400 --> 0:08:08.800 leads to some kind of false consciousness, one might say, 0:08:09.120 --> 0:08:11.800 to maybe distract people from other things, but that's the 0:08:11.920 --> 0:08:19.480 right Zapatistas watches. That's the yeah, yeah, we're coming for 0:08:19.520 --> 0:08:21.640 you with a work mob. We're going to cancel you. 0:08:22.200 --> 0:08:24.640 Nations begin to exist when religion loses a claim on 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:28.080 universal truth. Right. This is the Benedict Anderson speed run. 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:31.080 We don't need to go into the history of nationalism. 0:08:31.080 --> 0:08:33.600 Particularly it's important people to know where the Basque land is. 0:08:34.080 --> 0:08:36.880 So the Basque land is in the northwest of Spain 0:08:37.000 --> 0:08:40.120 and the southwest of France. Right. It's these provinces where, historically, 0:08:40.679 --> 0:08:44.360 their mountainous provinces, people there were often shepherds. You'll often 0:08:44.400 --> 0:08:46.640 find Basque people in the United States like growing wine 0:08:46.720 --> 0:08:50.280 or doing sheep herding, and that's their sort of historical 0:08:50.320 --> 0:08:53.280 images themselves, and they speak this Basque language. Right. So 0:08:54.720 --> 0:09:00.079 ETA come onto the scene as a Basque Nash to 0:09:00.280 --> 0:09:05.760 list Leftist Group. Like they sort of have some elements 0:09:05.800 --> 0:09:11.400 of Marxism, but they're obviously like nationalist. They they center. 0:09:11.520 --> 0:09:14.920 They don't center Catholicism, which is what previous Basque nationalisms 0:09:14.920 --> 0:09:18.360 have done. Right. Previous Basque nationalisms have been elite constructs 0:09:18.400 --> 0:09:22.440 that centered language, poetry and the Catholic identity. Don't do 0:09:22.520 --> 0:09:27.040 that they have this that's where they're slightly better. Yeah, yeah, 0:09:27.160 --> 0:09:29.199 right there. They're better than like the carlists, who are 0:09:29.240 --> 0:09:31.960 like things went wrong when Spain moved away from this 0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:34.559 line of royal secession and we need to go back 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:39.920 to that, and like extreme religious totalitarianism and a monarchy. 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:43.880 Like they're better than that. I feel pretty comfortable saying that. 0:09:45.040 --> 0:09:47.040 And they've done some cool stuff that they used to 0:09:47.080 --> 0:09:52.480 kidnap bosses who refused to negotiate with striking workers, which, like, 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:57.319 I know, watch out rail rail company owners. But they 0:09:57.800 --> 0:10:00.600 they definitely have like a leftist lead, right. They have 0:10:00.640 --> 0:10:03.320 this sort of Pan Third World this idea, this pan 0:10:03.400 --> 0:10:08.680 sort of colonized people idea. They begin assassinating people when 0:10:08.679 --> 0:10:14.520 they take revenge for this guy who's called chabby. You 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:15.880 can look at that name if you want to see 0:10:15.880 --> 0:10:20.439 some ex is in her name. But they they kill 0:10:20.520 --> 0:10:23.560 the local chief of police. Right. What happened is EST 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:27.800 BARRIETTA and this was a guy, were killed by a policeman. 0:10:28.080 --> 0:10:30.520 The police stop them at a roadblock, they run away 0:10:30.600 --> 0:10:33.440 the police, the police shoot them. In response, they kidnapped 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:36.600 the local chief of police, who has probably been torturing people. 0:10:36.800 --> 0:10:38.720 Right like that, you have to understand that all this 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:40.880 is happening in the context of a Spanish state which 0:10:40.920 --> 0:10:45.679 is extremely violent and repressive. And they kill this guy, right, 0:10:45.840 --> 0:10:49.680 and with this Franco right? Yes, no, but they begin 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:54.640 under Franco, right. So they and their support probably peaks 0:10:54.720 --> 0:10:57.319 under Franco, right, like they what what we're going to 0:10:57.360 --> 0:11:02.320 see is actually they are somewhat integral too not bringing 0:11:02.480 --> 0:11:05.120 down the Franco regime, and in a sense, Spain never 0:11:05.200 --> 0:11:07.280 does bring down the Franco regime, right. I want to 0:11:07.280 --> 0:11:10.760 get into that a little bit. But in destabilizing the 0:11:10.840 --> 0:11:14.560 Franco regime, and they certainly there was more support for 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:19.679 this kind of political violence when the state is so 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:24.400 obviously like undemocratic, unjust and incredibly violent towards people, right. 0:11:25.679 --> 0:11:28.760 So they when they're killing members as a guard Seville, 0:11:28.840 --> 0:11:32.600 these are people who are torturing prisoners. Right. ETA prisoners 0:11:32.600 --> 0:11:35.160 pretty often, when they're captured, turn up tortured in court, 0:11:35.240 --> 0:11:39.360 like very obviously that they have been victims of beatings 0:11:39.360 --> 0:11:43.640 and physical violence, right, and a lot of things you'll see. 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:47.160 They also kidnaped this guy forgetting it. He's one of 0:11:47.160 --> 0:11:49.000 the founders of vox and they kept him in a 0:11:49.040 --> 0:11:51.600 seller for months and months and months and months. They 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:53.840 look I don't I don't like vox, but they also 0:11:53.880 --> 0:11:56.560 don't like locking people and sellers. Two things can be 0:11:56.600 --> 0:12:00.600 dead and vox is a right wing, populist average party, 0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:03.920 if people aren't familiar. They also did a lot of extortion. 0:12:03.960 --> 0:12:05.960 They also did a lot of extorting local businesses, right. 0:12:05.960 --> 0:12:09.080 They called it the revolutionary tax. So they got into 0:12:09.120 --> 0:12:11.880 some sort of more classic kind of organized crime stuff there. 0:12:12.200 --> 0:12:16.200 And but the assassination we want to talk about today 0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:21.760 is so the way they do this is they rent 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:26.360 this flat right there. That's an apartment for American listeners, 0:12:27.160 --> 0:12:31.360 and they rent this flat and claimed to be students, 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:34.320 like sculpting students, right, like they were art students, were 0:12:34.320 --> 0:12:36.800 into sculpture. That's that's why we're covered in dust every 0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:40.600 day and we we wear these overrules. And for five 0:12:40.760 --> 0:12:45.880 months they spend every day digging a tunnel underneath the 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:50.120 road by their flat, right, and in that tunnel they 0:12:50.200 --> 0:12:55.360 packs of explosive and what they're doing there is they're 0:12:55.400 --> 0:12:58.720 waiting for this guy, Luis Carrero Blanco, to come in 0:12:58.800 --> 0:13:00.679 his car, which he travels in every day, right, and 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:04.079 they're gonna explode that explosive and they're going to kill him. 0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:06.199 The reason they want to kill him is because they 0:13:06.240 --> 0:13:11.400 say that he is the the best example of pure fascism. Right. 0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:15.720 He's a former admiral, he's Spain's sort of prime minister. 0:13:16.360 --> 0:13:19.920 He's Franco's chosen successor, right, so he's going to take 0:13:19.960 --> 0:13:23.720 over from Franco, and so by killing him they're able 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:27.360 to destabilize the whole Franco regimer. Franco cries in public 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:30.120 when he finds out Colonel Blanco is dead. And so, 0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:34.200 spoiler alert, career Blanco is extremely dead. The way they 0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:37.839 did this is they dressed up as electricians, which is 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:39.800 also a lot of dressing up in this which is 0:13:39.840 --> 0:13:42.440 kind of fine, and they painted a little line on 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:44.520 a wall to be like, okay, when the car gets 0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:48.079 to here, we explode it. So the car gets to there, 0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:51.600 they explode it. They launched this car over a church 0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:54.760 and it lands on the second floor terraces on the 0:13:54.800 --> 0:14:00.160 other side. Sometimes this is called like the Basques. His 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:03.240 program or Luis Carrero Blanco is referred to as Spain's 0:14:03.280 --> 0:14:09.280 first astronaut. Yeah, you can find a picture of it. 0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:17.079 Is His hysterical. The court, like it's just it just goes. So, yeah, 0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:22.440 it's it's periodically in Spain like someone will be prosecuted 0:14:22.480 --> 0:14:26.080 for making this joke. This Spain's first astronaut joke. And 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:29.320 so it happened someone pretty recently and she had really 0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:32.800 made it a thing of making jokes. Actually, I think 0:14:33.240 --> 0:14:36.440 his I think it's his grandchildren have noted that. It's 0:14:36.600 --> 0:14:38.960 it's a problematic restriction of free speech that the people 0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:41.800 keep getting prosecuted for this, and the court recently found 0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:44.520 that they weren't mocking his family or his memory, but 0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:47.160 they were just pointing the objectively funny way in which 0:14:47.160 --> 0:14:51.160 he died. You know, great for the court to agree 0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:53.760 that it was objectively funny that a terrible fucking person 0:14:54.360 --> 0:15:00.440 died by being blown literally sky high and his driver 0:15:00.600 --> 0:15:04.160 and his bodyguard were also killed. Shouldn't be a bodyguard 0:15:04.200 --> 0:15:09.560 for a piece of ship. But they, the guys had 0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:13.280 disguised themselves of Electricans. After the bomb went off, they 0:15:13.360 --> 0:15:15.720 ran around shouting, Oh no, we've hit a gas pipe, 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:18.520 like there's been a gas explosion. Every everybody clear out. 0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:27.480 was so pretty pretty entertaining stuff, acting as their side passion, 0:15:27.520 --> 0:15:30.200 I guess, and and like the reason they did if 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:33.360 they did a pressor not longer afterwards, wearing their outfits, 0:15:33.360 --> 0:15:37.320 which some of you may find offensive, and they they 0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:40.160 cited like his irreplaceable place in the hierarchy right and 0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:44.280 him being this. They called him a pure francoist. And, oddly, 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:48.000 like etta, were not. At this point, they were less 0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:50.200 unpopular than they became later, because they weren't doing quite 0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:54.480 as much extortion and they hadn't been engaging in quite 0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:58.000 as many murders of journalists. Right and and you used 0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:00.760 to see this. I'll get to that lay. Actually, they 0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:03.880 got grudging praise from almost everyone for doing this right 0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:06.960 and because it really does destabilize and kind of kick 0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:09.400 their legs out from under the Franco regime and it 0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:11.680 makes Franco cry, which I think is a laudable goal, 0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:15.240 like it's good to make Franco cry. Franco cry more 0:16:15.920 --> 0:16:20.240 so they well, it kind of it, kind of, it 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:22.880 kind of astomizes the Franco a state right between people 0:16:22.920 --> 0:16:25.200 who are like this bunker tendency, who want to go 0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:27.720 hardcore and crack down, and those who are like, we 0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:30.880 don't have the ability to crack down, like we'll lose 0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:34.960 all popular support if we do that and it really 0:16:34.960 --> 0:16:38.760 sort of vaporizes the consensus for what to do after 0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:41.160 Franco dies, which he does a few years later. I 0:16:41.160 --> 0:16:43.600 want to point out that people will, you'll read these 0:16:43.720 --> 0:16:47.400 articles on like the popular news websites or like you know, 0:16:47.440 --> 0:16:49.840 like hot take websites, where they're like, Oh, this carbon 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:55.760 launched Spain into democracy. I don't do that, I think. 0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:58.360 First of all, the major error with that is the 0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:02.640 idea that Spain, quote vote, transition to democracy. When you 0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:05.320 have a pacted transition where the people who did the 0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:08.920 war crimes in the previous regime specifically not prosecuted an 0:17:08.920 --> 0:17:12.800 exempt from prosecution. That's not what democracy looks like. I 0:17:12.800 --> 0:17:15.840 think the most accurate way of just scriving West Spain 0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:20.200 is is a post dictator like a post dictatorship, and 0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:22.240 Spain is still there. Now that we see that with 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:26.320 these prosecutions for mocking him, right, with the fact that 0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:28.639 there are people in Spain who are still in prison 0:17:28.680 --> 0:17:32.439 from mocking the crown, like that's not what democracies do. 0:17:32.960 --> 0:17:37.040 Good thing. That could never happen in Britain. Yeah, yeah, okay, 0:17:37.080 --> 0:17:41.359 you won't find you won't find me defending that either, 0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:44.720 but we don't we don't make a big industry of 0:17:44.720 --> 0:17:49.240 talking about Britain's transition to democracy. Maybe don't talk about 0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:52.439 transitions at all, given the powerful TURF discourse in Britain. 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:56.600 But yeah, I think it's problematic that that folks talk 0:17:56.640 --> 0:17:59.200 about this like yeah, it Spain his fixed. Like Spain 0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:01.399 has some dark it that it needs to process. Like 0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:05.320 it was not until the middle of the last decade 0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:07.920 that we started exhuming the graves from the civil war, 0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:10.440 and that's still highly contentious. Right, you still have a 0:18:10.440 --> 0:18:14.080 political party that doesn't want to do that. Spain is 0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:17.680 still processing the fact that the Catholic Church took babies 0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:20.000 away from people who had considered to be leftist and 0:18:20.000 --> 0:18:21.679 gave them to people who it considered to be more 0:18:21.720 --> 0:18:25.440 appropriate to raise them. It's called Ninobos if you want 0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:29.320 to look it up. Yes, Spain not transitioning to to democracy, 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:32.240 and I want to make that very clear. Some of 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:36.040 the other ship that etta does is really this is 0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:39.280 where they start to lose any any claim to being 0:18:39.280 --> 0:18:42.920 like a liberation movement, right, like they bombed an epair core. 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:48.280 That's like bombing a target for American folks in Barcelona 0:18:48.280 --> 0:18:51.240 and they killed twenty one people. Now I will say 0:18:52.080 --> 0:18:55.760 this isn't this is exemplary bad policing. They called the 0:18:55.760 --> 0:18:57.560 cops and we're like, Hey, we've put a bomb on 0:18:57.680 --> 0:18:59.880 that eas the supermarket. You will ought to clear it out, 0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:01.840 and the cops sore like I can't tell if that's 0:19:01.840 --> 0:19:04.960 a real threat or not, and as a result, did 0:19:05.000 --> 0:19:09.080 do anything and as a result the bomb went off 0:19:09.080 --> 0:19:11.800 and then needs the supermarket in twenty one people died. Right. 0:19:12.040 --> 0:19:16.600 They also alerted in a newspaper in Catalonia beforehand. Reporters 0:19:16.600 --> 0:19:20.239 Without Borders still for a long time classified Spain as 0:19:20.240 --> 0:19:23.520 a place that was hostile to journalists because of the 0:19:23.560 --> 0:19:28.080 attacks on journalists by etta. Right, also, the state isn't 0:19:28.160 --> 0:19:30.760 hostile to journalism, but I want to point out that 0:19:30.800 --> 0:19:33.760 they killed journalists, they killed university professors who disagreed with them, 0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:36.959 they killed local counselors, and it was some of these, 0:19:37.200 --> 0:19:41.000 like these very unpopular murders which really sort of strip 0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:44.840 support from them. And one thing that the Spanish state did, 0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:46.680 a couple of things the Spanish state did, that really 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:53.880 were extremely repressive against ETA, was they would move Basque 0:19:53.960 --> 0:19:57.480 prisoners out of the Basque Homeland and sort of hold 0:19:57.520 --> 0:19:59.480 them thousands of miles away from their families. Work in 0:19:59.520 --> 0:20:03.119 the Canary Islands and ship like. They're probably closer to 0:20:03.119 --> 0:20:05.480 Africa than you are to to your your home country. 0:20:05.560 --> 0:20:08.320 When they do that right, and you would often see 0:20:08.720 --> 0:20:11.439 I don't know if maybe you guys have seen this. 0:20:11.480 --> 0:20:14.879 It's a white flag. It's got an outline of the Basqutland, 0:20:14.880 --> 0:20:18.040 it's got an Arrow and it says you area. Have 0:20:18.080 --> 0:20:22.760 you seen that like protests now? If you if you've 0:20:22.800 --> 0:20:25.119 been at the protests, I is that, like, you know, 0:20:25.160 --> 0:20:27.560 in like the early two thousands in Europe, you would 0:20:27.600 --> 0:20:29.680 see that flag a lot. It just means Basque prisoners 0:20:29.680 --> 0:20:32.440 to the Basque Homeland. Like a lot of people got 0:20:32.440 --> 0:20:34.200 behind that who might not have got behind other things 0:20:34.200 --> 0:20:36.520 that ETA did right that it does seem deeply inhumane 0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:38.720 to move these people so far away from their families. 0:20:38.760 --> 0:20:42.720 It's sort of an extra punishment. The Spanish state also 0:20:42.760 --> 0:20:47.360 had this thing called Gal Gal is Groupo Anti Terroristas 0:20:47.480 --> 0:20:52.240 de Libration, so I guess like anti terrorists Liberation Group, 0:20:52.760 --> 0:20:55.720 and these were desquads, right. These were descat dated and 0:20:55.760 --> 0:21:01.000 invetted by the police. Etta enjoyed like a safe space 0:21:01.040 --> 0:21:03.560 in France, I guess, or like a Freedom for prosecution. 0:21:03.600 --> 0:21:08.359 Certainly under Franco, France was like, you know what, Franco 0:21:08.480 --> 0:21:11.040 really sucks, so you guys, go ahead and send it 0:21:11.480 --> 0:21:14.439 do your terrorism way. About a clavist. I'm sure the 0:21:14.440 --> 0:21:17.240 French also objected to their beret style, but this is 0:21:17.280 --> 0:21:24.520 this safe space. It's basically what they said. Yeah, yeah, 0:21:24.840 --> 0:21:26.919 this is like a whole thing with midterrand in France 0:21:26.960 --> 0:21:29.840 in the seventies, like France kind of became this weird 0:21:30.000 --> 0:21:33.160 like like they basically had this they had this open policy. 0:21:33.160 --> 0:21:35.520 Were like there was a bunch of well, there are. 0:21:35.520 --> 0:21:37.320 There are a bunch of people in Italy who got 0:21:37.359 --> 0:21:40.640 like falsely accused of like being the Red Brigades. What's 0:21:40.640 --> 0:21:43.760 that guy's name? The Guy Negri a toto, who's like 0:21:43.760 --> 0:21:45.919 a kind of famous. This theory kind of sucks by 0:21:45.960 --> 0:21:49.400 the end, but like they arrest him for like being 0:21:49.440 --> 0:21:52.120 a terrorist and then he gets himself elected to parliaments, 0:21:52.119 --> 0:21:54.080 we can get parliamentary immunity, and then flees the country 0:21:54.119 --> 0:21:58.159 to France. Yea. Yeah, this was a weird time. was 0:21:58.160 --> 0:22:04.119 in Carlos a jackal, also in Paris for a while. Yeah, yeah, 0:22:04.200 --> 0:22:07.240 you love it. France open door policy to terrorists. This 0:22:07.560 --> 0:22:13.040 is the only cool thing France has done since like yeah, yeah, 0:22:13.160 --> 0:22:17.480 you're not wrong. They invented Parkour. When was that? Oh, 0:22:17.560 --> 0:22:19.960 that was like in the resident xt okay, there you go. Okay, 0:22:20.000 --> 0:22:21.560 so the second cool thing. You're going to hand that 0:22:21.680 --> 0:22:25.560 to them? Yeah, they'll tend that to the entire country 0:22:25.560 --> 0:22:30.040 of France. Yeah, maybe not actually, given their treatment of 0:22:30.119 --> 0:22:33.919 migrant de aspirates in recent years. And sometimes their firefighters 0:22:33.960 --> 0:22:36.200 will go out and beat the ship into the police. 0:22:36.560 --> 0:22:39.440 That's true. Do you think we all have to give 0:22:39.480 --> 0:22:43.680 that to them? I wanted to maybe end with this 0:22:43.800 --> 0:22:47.880 quote from supercommand Ante Marcos. So we've talked a little 0:22:47.880 --> 0:22:53.960 bit about so this is from a piece code. I 0:22:54.080 --> 0:22:57.439 shipped upon this. I shipped upon the Revolutionary Vanguards of 0:22:57.520 --> 0:23:02.760 the Earth. Yeah, it's something. It yeah, the all the 0:23:02.800 --> 0:23:06.560 titles are like having problems translating Total Mundo, which is 0:23:06.600 --> 0:23:11.399 like yeah, as you I couldn't find it written in 0:23:11.400 --> 0:23:14.960 the original Spanish. Maybe that's just because I was googling 0:23:15.000 --> 0:23:17.159 wrong and I didn't put a lot of time in it, 0:23:17.240 --> 0:23:19.080 but I found so many of Zapatis to text of 0:23:19.119 --> 0:23:22.080 preserves better in these weird English translations and I don't know, 0:23:22.119 --> 0:23:23.760 I they're written in English. Its supposed to be possible 0:23:23.760 --> 0:23:26.040 they're written in English the first time. I don't. I 0:23:26.040 --> 0:23:27.679 don't think this one. I think I think these. I 0:23:27.680 --> 0:23:32.600 think this particular one is a translation. Okay, but yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:23:32.640 --> 0:23:35.080 I've tried to find in Spanish actually, but so I'm 0:23:35.080 --> 0:23:37.040 just going to go with a translation. I think it's 0:23:37.040 --> 0:23:41.359 probably from Lib calm or a similar website with like aging, 0:23:41.400 --> 0:23:46.080 red and black asthetic vibes, but I love those websites. 0:23:46.400 --> 0:23:48.919 So it's had a bit. I hope you'll enjoy it. 0:23:49.280 --> 0:23:51.480 We don't see why we should have, like the ETA 0:23:51.520 --> 0:23:53.840 were kind of like reaching out in solidarity, and the 0:23:54.600 --> 0:23:57.199 Zapatista has probously been like now, Dude, we are not 0:23:57.240 --> 0:24:00.679 the same. You're not just like a set society. We 0:24:00.680 --> 0:24:03.640 are not the same people and we don't see why 0:24:03.800 --> 0:24:05.640 we would ask you what we should do or how 0:24:05.640 --> 0:24:08.000 we should do it. What are you going to teach us? 0:24:08.119 --> 0:24:10.320 To Kill? You a lists who speak badly about the struggle, 0:24:10.640 --> 0:24:13.320 to justify the death of children for the reason of 0:24:13.359 --> 0:24:17.200 the cause. We don't need or want your support or solidarity. 0:24:17.520 --> 0:24:19.920 We already have the support and solidarity of many people 0:24:19.920 --> 0:24:22.359 in Mexico. And the world. Our struggle has a code 0:24:22.359 --> 0:24:25.560 of honor inherited from our grilla ancestors, and it contains, 0:24:25.800 --> 0:24:29.439 among other things, respective civilian lives, even though they may 0:24:29.480 --> 0:24:32.640 occupy government positions that oppress us. We don't use crime 0:24:32.680 --> 0:24:35.400 to get resources for ourselves. We don't rob, not even 0:24:35.400 --> 0:24:38.560 a snack store. We don't respond to words with fire, 0:24:38.960 --> 0:24:42.040 even though many hurt us or lie to us. One 0:24:42.080 --> 0:24:44.920 could think that to renounce these traditionally revolutionary methods is 0:24:44.960 --> 0:24:48.000 renouncing the advancements of our struggle, but in the faint 0:24:48.040 --> 0:24:51.199 light of our history, it seems that we have advanced 0:24:51.280 --> 0:24:55.199 more than those who resort to such arguments. Like I 0:24:55.320 --> 0:24:58.680 deeply enjoy this critique. You can look it up. Was 0:24:58.720 --> 0:25:01.159 Big on killing people who a Tang gently related to 0:25:01.200 --> 0:25:03.720 the regime in any way, which I don't agree with. 0:25:03.960 --> 0:25:05.919 We should also add that they more or less definitively 0:25:06.040 --> 0:25:10.800 stopped doing stuff in eighteen that they had a press conference, 0:25:10.840 --> 0:25:14.119 and in their press conference, actually arenaldoor Tegi, who was 0:25:14.200 --> 0:25:17.680 a former member, said that they wanted to express a 0:25:17.760 --> 0:25:19.959 sorrow for the pain and suffering other people have endured. 0:25:20.960 --> 0:25:22.760 He goes on like we feel their pain and that 0:25:22.880 --> 0:25:25.359 sincere feeling leads us to affirm that it should never 0:25:25.400 --> 0:25:27.720 have happened. Sure, buddy, you want to say sorry because 0:25:27.720 --> 0:25:31.840 you did terrorism, but I do think that, like we should. 0:25:31.920 --> 0:25:34.880 We're talking about assassinations. Are gonna talking about assassinations a week. 0:25:35.600 --> 0:25:38.760 There are ways to do leftist political struggle that are 0:25:38.800 --> 0:25:42.520 not killing random civilians and their friends and family members 0:25:42.520 --> 0:25:45.879 and bombing supermarkets, and those are the better ways. But 0:25:46.359 --> 0:25:50.880 making Franco cries good sending Franco's successor into near Earth 0:25:51.040 --> 0:25:54.600 orbit is pretty funny. So we we enjoyed that one 0:25:54.720 --> 0:25:58.240 at least. If not, I think it is worth pointing out, 0:25:58.280 --> 0:26:01.560 like we weighed this prettyvious by by that line. But 0:26:02.640 --> 0:26:06.240 it does not get a free space, a free bask homeland. 0:26:06.640 --> 0:26:10.000 The Zappatistas have actually taken and still controlled territory, a 0:26:10.080 --> 0:26:13.280 thing that none of these like weird thrilla groups ever 0:26:13.320 --> 0:26:17.520 pulled off. So you know, yeah, they don't even get 0:26:17.560 --> 0:26:21.520 majority support really at any point. Like occasionally there will 0:26:21.520 --> 0:26:23.760 be people who are like yeah, you know what, like 0:26:23.880 --> 0:26:25.399 I agree with some of what they say, but the 0:26:25.560 --> 0:26:28.520 tactics are deeply flawed. You know, these keeping people, like 0:26:28.960 --> 0:26:32.480 torturing people, that kind of thing in the context of 0:26:32.480 --> 0:26:35.840 the dirty war with the state is important, but, yeah, 0:26:35.880 --> 0:26:37.879 they don't succeed right and I don't think you do 0:26:37.960 --> 0:26:41.200 succeed by by extorting the people you're claiming to liberate. 0:26:41.600 --> 0:26:47.520 That generally doesn't work well. So up the Zappatistas, I guess. Yeah, 0:26:47.640 --> 0:26:51.880 that seems like a good place to end. Yep, cool, yeah, 0:26:52.200 --> 0:26:53.840 this is this has ma could happen here. Join US 0:26:53.880 --> 0:26:56.840 tomorrow from more assassinations, and also the day after that, 0:26:56.920 --> 0:27:00.320 the day after that, the end, the day after that. Yep, 0:27:01.200 --> 0:27:14.480 I'm wait, hello, I'm the ghost of the Queen, and 0:27:14.560 --> 0:27:18.640 this is assassination week, and whose I actually was assassinated? 0:27:19.040 --> 0:27:26.480 It was the I R A. Hi. Welcome, welcome to 0:27:26.520 --> 0:27:31.320 assassination week, where we talk about all of the normal things. 0:27:31.600 --> 0:27:33.600 That's what we do. We talk about all the stuff 0:27:33.600 --> 0:27:36.560 that's totally normal and chill. We were just we were 0:27:36.600 --> 0:27:41.040 just debating why we keep having to talk about Nazi furies, 0:27:41.119 --> 0:27:46.320 differences between catboys and cat girls as they relate to Nazism, Um, 0:27:46.320 --> 0:27:49.360 and we're not going to get less stupid for today's 0:27:49.400 --> 0:27:56.560 assassination Um. So let's let's talk about Argentina. One of 0:27:56.800 --> 0:28:00.360 one are the ones that happened pretty shortly after we 0:28:00.359 --> 0:28:03.560 we planned on doing assassination week. Were like, well, there's 0:28:03.600 --> 0:28:08.520 another one to add to the list. So, yeah, Christina 0:28:08.600 --> 0:28:11.959 Fernandez de Kirchner has been kind of one of the 0:28:12.000 --> 0:28:17.800 most prominent politicians in Argentina for almost two decades now. Um, 0:28:17.840 --> 0:28:20.680 she was elected after she was elected president after her 0:28:20.720 --> 0:28:24.359 husband served as a term and then declined to to 0:28:24.440 --> 0:28:26.520 run for a second. But she was liked in two 0:28:26.560 --> 0:28:29.360 US and seven. After an eight year run as president, 0:28:29.480 --> 0:28:33.359 she's now the country's vice president. She was expected to 0:28:33.359 --> 0:28:36.720 make a bid to return to the top job next year. 0:28:37.160 --> 0:28:39.720 That's kind of up in the air. Um, she's kind 0:28:39.760 --> 0:28:44.880 of left dish. She she's kind of the populist, like leftist, 0:28:44.960 --> 0:28:49.400 kind of talk about perronism and like the weird ship 0:28:49.600 --> 0:28:54.400 that's going on here. Please talk about maybe, maybe do 0:28:54.440 --> 0:28:56.680 it in the in the music of Andrew Lloyd Webber. 0:28:57.200 --> 0:29:00.400 Oh God, no, okay, so there once was a man 0:29:01.040 --> 0:29:07.760 the parode, and he so he had been like he 0:29:08.160 --> 0:29:10.760 there's a whole thing. He gets like coude, he's like 0:29:11.240 --> 0:29:14.360 he like flees the country and while he's not, and 0:29:14.680 --> 0:29:16.520 you know this is a teatorship, and like, while he's 0:29:16.600 --> 0:29:21.520 not in Argentina. There's like this whole like like if 0:29:21.520 --> 0:29:23.840 they're a very classical populace movement, to the point where, 0:29:23.840 --> 0:29:26.440 like a lot of the theorizing about what populism is 0:29:26.440 --> 0:29:29.920 is theorizing about perronism. And what you get is like 0:29:30.360 --> 0:29:34.080 two completely different like political factions, like casting all of 0:29:34.080 --> 0:29:37.040 their sort of aspirations onto the like, like like onto 0:29:37.080 --> 0:29:39.520 the figure of like perrone, who's like in exile, and 0:29:39.520 --> 0:29:40.719 so you can, you can like, you know, you can, 0:29:40.760 --> 0:29:43.440 you can say that, like Perrone has whatever. Two perone 0:29:43.440 --> 0:29:45.560 supports us, like perome will be the guy, you'll save us, 0:29:45.560 --> 0:29:46.960 and like so you get, like you get this really 0:29:47.000 --> 0:29:48.880 weird thing where they were like they were like there 0:29:48.880 --> 0:29:51.600 are Peronas who are like fascists, there are Peronis, who 0:29:51.600 --> 0:29:54.840 are like communists. So you get the split that happens. 0:29:54.880 --> 0:29:57.200 You have these left Pronois of these right Peronius, like 0:29:57.200 --> 0:29:59.040 like when perrone comes back to the country, like the 0:29:59.120 --> 0:30:01.680 right Peronas start ordering the left wing Parnais. It's this 0:30:01.720 --> 0:30:06.920 whole fucking thing, and it's this, you know, and uh, 0:30:07.400 --> 0:30:11.720 this this this sort of like political formation like persists 0:30:11.760 --> 0:30:15.960 to an over military tatorship. It persists like through sort 0:30:16.000 --> 0:30:18.600 of like the trend, quote unquote transition to democracy, and 0:30:18.680 --> 0:30:25.040 like basically everyone who has ran Argentina since like the 0:30:25.080 --> 0:30:28.120 quote unquote transition to democracy has been a paronnais of 0:30:28.200 --> 0:30:34.040 some kind. Um Chrishnai is, the Krishner is from the 0:30:34.120 --> 0:30:37.360 left wing, sort of the newly sort of like revitalized left, 0:30:37.560 --> 0:30:40.040 like paroonism that comes around like the early two thousands. 0:30:40.080 --> 0:30:41.560 I mean she she's around. She's around actually in the 0:30:41.640 --> 0:30:46.320 nineties too, but in in early two thousand's it's sort 0:30:46.320 --> 0:30:49.640 of like, okay, so in two thousand one there's this 0:30:49.800 --> 0:30:53.040 massive series of protests and uprisings in in Argentina that, 0:30:53.080 --> 0:30:55.080 like I I would argue is like the last of 0:30:55.080 --> 0:30:58.200 like the Great Twentieth Century, sort of like working class revolutions, 0:30:58.200 --> 0:31:01.760 like people started occupying like people their factories, like did 0:31:01.760 --> 0:31:05.120 they go through like five prime ministers in like a month? 0:31:05.840 --> 0:31:08.880 Like they come very, very, very close to bringing down 0:31:08.920 --> 0:31:11.760 the government. And the thing that, the thing that sort 0:31:11.800 --> 0:31:14.680 of stabilized situation is a the and this is this 0:31:14.720 --> 0:31:16.800 is a serison protest against like I am a posterity right, 0:31:16.920 --> 0:31:19.720 which would be just like destroying the country. And the 0:31:19.760 --> 0:31:23.720 way this sort of gets stabilized is that Um you 0:31:24.280 --> 0:31:26.320 get a new you know, you, you, you, you get 0:31:26.320 --> 0:31:30.160 a new sort of like revitalized, like left peroneous populist thing. 0:31:30.280 --> 0:31:32.480 And this, the sort of populist deal is is twofold. 0:31:32.840 --> 0:31:35.280 It's like one, okay, we're gonna have a bunch of patrons, 0:31:35.360 --> 0:31:38.920 networks and we're gonna run like everything from like sort 0:31:38.920 --> 0:31:41.239 of like job networks kind of like down, like right 0:31:41.360 --> 0:31:43.320 right down to like hey, we will like give a 0:31:43.360 --> 0:31:45.520 dear neighborhood as long as you stay, as long as 0:31:45.520 --> 0:31:47.160 you sort of supported. And the second thing is, like 0:31:47.720 --> 0:31:50.440 they make that like the ruling class like cuts this 0:31:50.480 --> 0:31:53.560 sort and this is this is particularly like Fernandando Christian, 0:31:53.680 --> 0:32:00.000 like her husband's like cuts. This deal basically, sorry, Nestor Christner, cuts, 0:32:00.040 --> 0:32:02.200 just deal with with the working class, which is like okay, 0:32:02.200 --> 0:32:03.800 if you guys don't, if you guys stop trying to 0:32:03.840 --> 0:32:05.440 overthrow us, like we will give you a bunch of 0:32:05.440 --> 0:32:08.040 welfare programs, we will like do a bunch of stuff 0:32:08.080 --> 0:32:10.280 to like promoted the sort of like national economy. And 0:32:10.280 --> 0:32:12.920 so it's it's this, it's this whole it's it's looks 0:32:12.920 --> 0:32:15.480 like a left populism, but it's it's it's built on 0:32:15.800 --> 0:32:18.719 sort of like like this very explicit like we are 0:32:18.760 --> 0:32:21.240 going to buy off the working class. We can maintain capitalism, 0:32:21.240 --> 0:32:23.560 but the capitalism is gonna be slightly nicer. Yeah, and 0:32:23.600 --> 0:32:26.240 there's a few reactions that, including the reaction from the right, 0:32:26.400 --> 0:32:28.640 which is very much like these wealth help these all 0:32:28.640 --> 0:32:31.480 of these welfare programs are making people lazy and unwilling 0:32:31.520 --> 0:32:34.360 to do actual work, which is kind of worth some 0:32:34.440 --> 0:32:38.080 of our assassin, or attempted assassin, gets some of his 0:32:38.160 --> 0:32:42.440 ideology from Um. But yeah, so a week before this 0:32:42.480 --> 0:32:47.880 assassination attemptum Argentine and prosecutors announced that they're seeking a 0:32:47.880 --> 0:32:53.040 twelve year person sentence for Mrs Kirchner over accusations that 0:32:53.080 --> 0:32:56.320 she directed public roadway funds to a company owned by 0:32:56.360 --> 0:33:00.600 a friend of hers, accusations which she denies. I don't 0:33:01.360 --> 0:33:04.760 I have no bid in this fight Um, but I 0:33:04.800 --> 0:33:08.600 mean the thing I would note is, like, like almost everyone, 0:33:08.640 --> 0:33:11.640 so she she like well, particularly this Christian, but she 0:33:11.680 --> 0:33:13.720 was also sort of like considered like the soft wing 0:33:13.800 --> 0:33:15.760 of the pink tides, sort of like social democratic government 0:33:15.760 --> 0:33:17.840 to CON parwer this period. And like all of these 0:33:17.840 --> 0:33:20.160 people are kind of corrupt, but they're not like more 0:33:20.160 --> 0:33:23.800 corrupt than any other like politician in this region. But like, 0:33:24.040 --> 0:33:26.440 like every single one of these people eventually, like there's 0:33:26.480 --> 0:33:28.400 a whole movement to put them in prison because of 0:33:28.400 --> 0:33:31.400 corruption or something, and it's like, I mean, I don't know, 0:33:31.560 --> 0:33:35.600 like every like they're politicians, like what do you expect? 0:33:35.880 --> 0:33:42.360 Like the political rhetoric against Mrs Kirchner had intensified in 0:33:42.480 --> 0:33:46.080 recent weeks amid the final stages of her corruption trial. 0:33:46.880 --> 0:33:51.000 And while she is probably the country's most prominent politician, 0:33:51.400 --> 0:33:54.160 even serving as vice president, seen as more powerful than 0:33:54.200 --> 0:33:57.760 then the president, she's also a very polarizing figure. You know, 0:33:58.400 --> 0:34:01.120 her face is plastered on posts all around like working 0:34:01.120 --> 0:34:05.880 class neighborhoods Um, but Argentina's right has kind of made 0:34:06.200 --> 0:34:08.520 her out to be their boogieman. She's kind of their 0:34:08.960 --> 0:34:11.960 she's kind of like their top target. Um. Last week 0:34:12.040 --> 0:34:15.920 in one opposition lawmaker commenting on her case said that 0:34:16.040 --> 0:34:19.960 Argentina shouldn't bring back the death penalty um just for 0:34:20.000 --> 0:34:22.600 her case, just because she's like a woman we don't like, 0:34:22.800 --> 0:34:25.160 so we should kill her. As I got friends at 0:34:25.200 --> 0:34:30.879 the Written House Cultural Center. Yeah, would you call her 0:34:30.920 --> 0:34:39.040 a Femi Bolshy uh because they so. Yeah, but since 0:34:39.120 --> 0:34:42.279 the proposition of the twelve year sentence, hundreds of her 0:34:42.320 --> 0:34:46.080 supporters have been rallying, or were rallying outside of her 0:34:46.120 --> 0:34:49.320 house every night, Um, you know, calling her a victim 0:34:49.360 --> 0:34:53.400 of political persecution and doing these big, big rallies in support. 0:34:54.200 --> 0:34:57.359 And it was at such a rally on Thursday September one, 0:34:57.800 --> 0:35:01.319 just after nine PM, when Mrs Richner was returning home 0:35:01.400 --> 0:35:04.480 from presiding over a session at the Senate, accompanied by 0:35:04.480 --> 0:35:08.359 her security detail. She was greeting the massive supporters, letting 0:35:08.360 --> 0:35:11.319 the streets and signing copies of her book, and then 0:35:11.320 --> 0:35:14.040 a man rushed up through the crowd, aimed a semi 0:35:14.040 --> 0:35:17.640 automatic pistol interest away from her face and pulled the trigger, 0:35:18.320 --> 0:35:21.080 but the gun didn't go off. There's lots of footage 0:35:21.080 --> 0:35:23.080 of this incident. There was a lot of cavas rolling. 0:35:23.160 --> 0:35:27.880 It's kind of wild because she sticks the gun like 0:35:28.360 --> 0:35:32.200 right up in her face. It's just like really, really 0:35:32.200 --> 0:35:34.160 like this. This is this is, this is like something 0:35:34.200 --> 0:35:39.600 out of like fucking like like late Russia. It's it's 0:35:39.680 --> 0:35:44.120 very slapstick, it's very comical. Yeah, the Franch Ferdinand level 0:35:44.120 --> 0:35:51.480 of well, speaking speaking of President, President Um Fernandez said 0:35:51.560 --> 0:35:55.320 in an address to the nation later. That quote, Christina 0:35:55.400 --> 0:35:59.360 still alive because, for reasons that have not been confirmed technically, 0:35:59.719 --> 0:36:03.080 the UPEN, which was loaded with five bullets, did not fire. 0:36:04.440 --> 0:36:07.560 I can confirm technically that it is a piece of shit. 0:36:08.760 --> 0:36:10.600 You can find it was. It was a thirty. It 0:36:10.640 --> 0:36:13.360 was a thirty two, caliber three, wasn't it? It's a 0:36:13.440 --> 0:36:17.319 burst of thunder, isn't it? Oh, maybe I'm wrong. What 0:36:17.320 --> 0:36:19.560 wasn't it was was, isn't it? Like a specific gun? 0:36:19.640 --> 0:36:24.839 That's like absolutely, like they're kind of funny. They're these 0:36:24.880 --> 0:36:27.120 like the bursts, so that I think they made in Argentina. 0:36:27.160 --> 0:36:29.440 They might be made in Brazil, I think they made Argentina. 0:36:30.440 --> 0:36:33.680 They make knockoffs of other gun designs, more or less. 0:36:33.680 --> 0:36:35.640 So it's in the style of a PPK, which has 0:36:36.560 --> 0:36:40.759 good precedent for killing bad people. That's what hit the 0:36:40.840 --> 0:36:44.920 brained himself with. But this, this is a knockoff. This 0:36:45.000 --> 0:36:47.160 is a cheap one. It's one of the guns. It's 0:36:47.200 --> 0:36:52.359 approved for safe sail in California because it doesn't get bang, 0:36:53.440 --> 0:36:55.120 at least a version of this. I don't think the 0:36:55.120 --> 0:36:57.400 one that that this person used is actually a thunder, 0:36:57.480 --> 0:37:01.040 but yeah, it's just it's like I don't know. It's 0:37:01.120 --> 0:37:03.319 it's the it's like when you go and buy cheap 0:37:03.360 --> 0:37:05.440 knockoff of anything. You know, like it doesn't work. This 0:37:05.480 --> 0:37:08.160 want to paste be missing one of the grip screws actually, 0:37:08.320 --> 0:37:12.120 but yeah, it's very rusty. This person didn't think this 0:37:12.239 --> 0:37:14.359 three very well. I guess it's what we'll talk we'll 0:37:14.400 --> 0:37:16.640 talk a bit more about what was going on with 0:37:16.680 --> 0:37:19.040 a gun in a sack. You know what, I won't 0:37:19.040 --> 0:37:23.080 failed to matter. The vice president of the country. These 0:37:23.360 --> 0:37:27.400 these products and series products before the podcast. Yeah, thank you. 0:37:27.440 --> 0:37:31.960 That's what it's what everyone says about butter. Help will 0:37:32.480 --> 0:37:36.360 will not help. You killed the vice president. Okay, so 0:37:36.560 --> 0:37:42.000 plug for ammonium nitrate. Federal Police arrested Fernando on Andre's 0:37:42.400 --> 0:37:46.560 Sabag Montel, a thirty five year old Brazilian man who 0:37:46.600 --> 0:37:49.799 has been living in Argentina for about twenty years. They 0:37:49.840 --> 0:37:53.120 recover the gun at the scene and then the next 0:37:53.200 --> 0:37:57.680 day they searched his apartment. He had hit hit at 0:37:57.719 --> 0:38:00.200 a studio apartment in like a working class sub verb 0:38:00.880 --> 0:38:08.000 of Oh boy, what's Oh boy, Um banarosh boy. I 0:38:08.040 --> 0:38:09.719 want to send this one to the chat let. Someone 0:38:09.760 --> 0:38:17.440 else said to Spanish and sort of speaking. It's a boot. 0:38:17.680 --> 0:38:19.799 There we go. I sent it to the regular cool 0:38:19.840 --> 0:38:27.399 scent O. No, that was I can't I can't read that. 0:38:27.440 --> 0:38:31.520 I have no idea. Then it's a capital. I don't know, 0:38:31.840 --> 0:38:35.680 I can't read it. I only I never say words, 0:38:35.719 --> 0:38:45.640 I only read it. Yeah, yeahs Buenos Buenos. I'm learning 0:38:45.640 --> 0:38:48.600 how to read ancient Greek for magic and that's way 0:38:48.640 --> 0:38:52.319 easier than this. I was quibbled back. Are you going 0:38:52.400 --> 0:38:54.239 to be like a Hebrew understander on twitter? Are you're 0:38:54.239 --> 0:39:00.799 gonna be like it means legal immigrants? When he says that, guys, no, only, only, 0:39:01.600 --> 0:39:04.759 only for ancient Greek, only only for Greeks to use, 0:39:04.840 --> 0:39:07.200 to use in spells. And I forget that people who 0:39:07.200 --> 0:39:10.239 aren't Americans don't pick up the sort of like smattering 0:39:10.280 --> 0:39:13.440 of terrible Spanish that like everyone in the US can 0:39:13.520 --> 0:39:17.560 kind of do. Yeah, no, I I grew up as 0:39:17.600 --> 0:39:20.480 a kind in Saskatchewan. No one's going to speak Spanish. 0:39:20.520 --> 0:39:23.600 They're just food nowns. You can you can just do 0:39:23.760 --> 0:39:29.160 like and but anyway. So they searched his studio apartment 0:39:29.320 --> 0:39:37.520 in apparently this big town point what, Buenos Aires? This 0:39:37.600 --> 0:39:44.440 is pepmately, but it's fine. But Anyway, they searched his apartment. 0:39:45.080 --> 0:39:50.560 They found just a hundred bullets just around, just like 0:39:50.640 --> 0:39:55.000 in various places, or, like they said, they just found 0:39:55.040 --> 0:39:59.040 a hundred bullets like like around his studio apartment. So 0:40:00.800 --> 0:40:04.399 that's that's that's the statement. It's amazing people haven't voiced 0:40:04.440 --> 0:40:07.759 a video and highly recommend looking it up. So Mr 0:40:07.880 --> 0:40:13.400 Montell is registered with tax authorities as an uber driver, Um, 0:40:13.920 --> 0:40:18.399 and he's not. Pretty soon people figured out that he's 0:40:18.440 --> 0:40:21.919 not just a regular dude. Um, there was, there's, there 0:40:21.960 --> 0:40:25.440 was a few signs, most most notably the sun and 0:40:25.480 --> 0:40:30.000 Red Tattoo on his elbow. That'll do it. So Which? Yeah, 0:40:30.080 --> 0:40:36.399 so battalion logo, right, James, shut the funk up. Shut 0:40:36.440 --> 0:40:41.920 the funk up, James. So, yes, a wave of people 0:40:41.920 --> 0:40:45.560 who think they're smart but are actually not, saw the 0:40:45.920 --> 0:40:48.879 sun and red and thought that he was doing this 0:40:49.000 --> 0:40:53.319 in solidarity with the ASA. Battalion. Um, isn't he like 0:40:53.360 --> 0:40:57.040 in a Duke and his group? I'll get to it. 0:40:57.080 --> 0:41:01.000 Not Quite, Um, but no, it's not as off battalion 0:41:01.080 --> 0:41:02.960 because the son and read does not come from the 0:41:03.000 --> 0:41:05.880 as off battalion, Um, as most people listening to this 0:41:05.880 --> 0:41:09.440 show should probably know. Already. His social media accounts got 0:41:09.440 --> 0:41:11.479 taken down pretty quick, but we do have a few 0:41:11.600 --> 0:41:14.239 archives which I'll be working off of to kind of 0:41:14.600 --> 0:41:19.280 paint the rest of this weird guy's picture. Um, he 0:41:19.440 --> 0:41:23.120 is steeped in a whole bunch of ECLECTIC and esoteric things. 0:41:23.920 --> 0:41:26.960 He has various esoteric symbols tattooed across his body. He 0:41:27.040 --> 0:41:33.600 follows a lot of extremely interesting facebook pages. Um, he is. 0:41:33.800 --> 0:41:36.440 He is, you know, is interested in stuff from far 0:41:36.560 --> 0:41:43.239 right groups, conspiracy theories, mysticism, freemasonry, Um, quote unquote, alchemy 0:41:43.320 --> 0:41:47.920 and the Cabala or again, quote unquote, the Cabala Um, 0:41:48.480 --> 0:41:53.279 across many, many kind of political, esoteric, fascist interests. It's 0:41:53.320 --> 0:41:58.879 kind of it's not very surprising. By the way, I 0:41:58.960 --> 0:42:02.320 just found out there's a whole page by that caliberisk. 0:42:02.320 --> 0:42:03.759 You're a guy and you were right and I was wrong. 0:42:03.920 --> 0:42:07.759 It's a thirty two a CP bastel. Thank you, thank you, 0:42:07.960 --> 0:42:12.040 thank you. It wasn't thirty two a CP. Huh Wow. Yeah, yeah, 0:42:12.120 --> 0:42:15.120 maybe if you spent less time making fun of my Spanish, 0:42:15.320 --> 0:42:21.600 we can learn something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't think 0:42:22.239 --> 0:42:26.040 in terms of levels of understanding. For a while he 0:42:26.160 --> 0:42:28.720 used the symbol of the tyrontal order of the Knights, 0:42:29.160 --> 0:42:33.759 which was a fringe kind of far right Argentine fascist 0:42:34.160 --> 0:42:38.000 mystical group from the nineteen eighties. But he had that 0:42:38.040 --> 0:42:40.000 as his facebook profile for a while. So he's like 0:42:40.320 --> 0:42:43.200 into the worst type of nerd things, like, instead of 0:42:43.200 --> 0:42:44.680 just playing D and D and getting it out of 0:42:44.680 --> 0:42:47.360 your system, he's like, I'm going to become a fascist 0:42:47.440 --> 0:42:50.200 and a wizard. You know, if he'd had a cultural 0:42:50.239 --> 0:42:54.000 center where he could play Dn d with people just 0:42:54.040 --> 0:42:59.080 saying talk, talk, Talk About Dragon Ball, play D and D. Yeah, 0:42:59.600 --> 0:43:03.040 do some really, really bad figure paging do and we 0:43:03.040 --> 0:43:06.839 wouldn't have had a problem here, but instead here we are. 0:43:07.320 --> 0:43:09.680 So would be like looking at his facebook page right 0:43:09.719 --> 0:43:14.040 you see stuff about like paganism, Vikings, death metal, not 0:43:14.239 --> 0:43:18.080 very good philosophers. These types of things don't immediately indicate 0:43:18.080 --> 0:43:19.960 a connection to the far right. Like you can't just 0:43:20.000 --> 0:43:24.399 take them by themselves, but when taken all together with 0:43:24.680 --> 0:43:26.840 the much more avert political things, you can get a 0:43:26.920 --> 0:43:29.799 fuller picture of who this person actually is. Um You know, 0:43:29.880 --> 0:43:31.480 it's like when I when I'm when I walking down 0:43:31.520 --> 0:43:33.279 the street and I see someone inside like a half 0:43:33.320 --> 0:43:36.839 skull mask. That doesn't immediately mean they're Nazi, but if 0:43:36.880 --> 0:43:39.480 I see the half skull mask and then's some questionable tattoos, 0:43:39.520 --> 0:43:42.280 I'm like, okay, then that that that, then you're able 0:43:42.320 --> 0:43:45.640 to put that together. Um. So same thing with here, right, 0:43:45.640 --> 0:43:48.640 when someone's really into like Pagan Viking Shit, it may 0:43:48.719 --> 0:43:51.279 make me side eye until I see some things that 0:43:51.320 --> 0:43:55.400 really confirm my suspicions. I'm not gonna you know, you know, 0:43:55.920 --> 0:43:58.520 talk of this person as if they are a Nazi. Uh, 0:43:58.640 --> 0:44:02.720 this guy is not. He is a big Old Nazi. 0:44:03.239 --> 0:44:06.759 A few extremism researchers in Argentina have kind of made 0:44:06.800 --> 0:44:10.120 statements about this guy and what they're they're take on 0:44:10.160 --> 0:44:13.000 it is, as someone you know who actually is in Argentina, right, 0:44:13.040 --> 0:44:16.839 I'm an extremism researcher who lives in Oregon, which, as 0:44:16.880 --> 0:44:19.360 I so, I don't really have the same cultural understanding. 0:44:20.000 --> 0:44:22.000 You have a good grasp on the language, which is helpful. 0:44:23.000 --> 0:44:25.279 I have a good class on the language. When they're 0:44:25.360 --> 0:44:28.960 using magic words, when they're using words from real language, 0:44:29.040 --> 0:44:34.200 is not really Um. But no, they, they, they've they've 0:44:34.239 --> 0:44:38.200 talked about him like saying, uh, they're not. This dude is, quote, 0:44:38.239 --> 0:44:40.840 not explicitly connected to an organization, but they relate to 0:44:40.880 --> 0:44:43.720 the fascist ideology and compared him to kind of being 0:44:43.800 --> 0:44:47.879 the the types of, quote unquote, like Lone Wolf attackers 0:44:47.920 --> 0:44:51.720 that are not connected to any like specific political movement 0:44:51.920 --> 0:44:56.160 but almost just like an emanation of political ideas online, 0:44:56.680 --> 0:45:01.360 like in a Christ church buffalo in El Paso. Those 0:45:01.400 --> 0:45:03.480 were the places that that he was kind of compared to, 0:45:03.600 --> 0:45:06.759 is like people who aren't like inside a group but 0:45:06.800 --> 0:45:09.480 are willing to go out and take politics into the 0:45:09.520 --> 0:45:13.560 real world. But yeah, they compared his profile to other 0:45:13.719 --> 0:45:17.400 other types of like, you know, like load, quote Unquote 0:45:17.400 --> 0:45:19.120 Load Wolf, which is not a good term, but like 0:45:19.239 --> 0:45:21.480 what that means is like as someone who's like isolated, 0:45:22.160 --> 0:45:24.360 doing a mass shooting or a terrorist attack or an 0:45:24.400 --> 0:45:28.759 attempted a political assassination. Montel was described, as his friends 0:45:29.239 --> 0:45:34.560 as like eccentric and insecure and dishonest, um, but not 0:45:34.719 --> 0:45:39.359 necessarily openly violent or kind of openly invested in like 0:45:39.440 --> 0:45:42.719 political parties, which isn't surprising when you get someone into 0:45:42.719 --> 0:45:45.960 this like nerdy type of politics that's like, yeah, they're 0:45:46.000 --> 0:45:48.800 doing politics as it relates to being like a weird 0:45:48.840 --> 0:45:52.200 nerd online. But you know, who knows his his friends 0:45:52.200 --> 0:45:54.799 made us not not seeing this side of him at all. 0:45:54.840 --> 0:45:57.920 Like who, who can? Who can say? Because he did 0:45:57.960 --> 0:46:03.680 have a lot of fascist tattoos. So like like come on, guys, Um, 0:46:03.760 --> 0:46:05.880 on the he had like, like we said, son and 0:46:06.000 --> 0:46:09.040 red on his left elbow. On the back of his hands, 0:46:09.080 --> 0:46:12.520 he had a he had the iron cross and he 0:46:12.680 --> 0:46:17.839 had thor's hammer, but like like the like the traditional one, 0:46:17.920 --> 0:46:21.839 not like marvel movie shit. In a funny, maybe coincidence, 0:46:22.320 --> 0:46:26.279 this guy, the assassin, was actually interviewed twice on television 0:46:26.800 --> 0:46:30.120 in like months before the attack, just as an average 0:46:30.120 --> 0:46:34.240 citizen on the street, giving his opinion on politics. Um, 0:46:34.360 --> 0:46:37.879 one of them, he they were he was interviewed with 0:46:37.960 --> 0:46:42.560 his girlfriend and they were complaining about Argentina's social welfare programs, 0:46:42.600 --> 0:46:45.360 saying that they make people lazy. Um. And then in 0:46:45.440 --> 0:46:49.319 another more recent one, in another more recent interview, he 0:46:49.400 --> 0:46:52.719 was asked if he supported Argentina's new finance minister, which 0:46:52.719 --> 0:46:56.680 he responded Hell No, and then he offered his opinion 0:46:56.760 --> 0:47:00.920 as well, saying that he doesn't support Christina either. Christina's 0:47:01.000 --> 0:47:03.239 later the person he tries to kill, which you know 0:47:03.280 --> 0:47:06.520 I will say this. This is, this is not out 0:47:06.560 --> 0:47:08.759 of line for like whenever a journalist tries to pick 0:47:08.800 --> 0:47:12.000 a random person on the street, like it's like they're, they're, they're, 0:47:12.000 --> 0:47:15.359 they're always interviewing Hitler, Mussolini, like it's it's just every 0:47:15.400 --> 0:47:18.960 single time, like this guy is a repretentisative sample of 0:47:19.000 --> 0:47:22.840 those people. But yeah, so he gives up his unslicited 0:47:22.920 --> 0:47:26.640 opinion on Christina, who he then tries to murder on TV, 0:47:26.840 --> 0:47:29.200 just a month before he tries to kill her. Um. 0:47:29.320 --> 0:47:32.600 So now back at the scene, authorities said that. So 0:47:33.000 --> 0:47:37.920 the gun, they had five bullets inside. Um, the serial 0:47:38.000 --> 0:47:42.719 number was partially, partially removed. Um, it was. It was 0:47:42.960 --> 0:47:45.359 an older it was an older gun. It was not 0:47:45.640 --> 0:47:48.400 was was not brand new. Um, they said that the 0:47:48.480 --> 0:47:53.080 gun model had not, had not been manufactured in forty years. Um, 0:47:53.120 --> 0:47:56.839 but it's, uh, the IT looks like it was made 0:47:56.920 --> 0:48:00.919 until eight. Again, it's pretty old. Yeah, the gun could 0:48:00.920 --> 0:48:03.000 have failed to fire because it was broken or because 0:48:03.040 --> 0:48:07.520 it was just improperly loaded. Um, because have you come 0:48:07.560 --> 0:48:10.759 across the Argentine media articles which were explaining how to 0:48:10.840 --> 0:48:17.480 properly cock the hammer on one? That's a real, real, 0:48:18.040 --> 0:48:22.560 really interesting take. Stuff being like next time. So good 0:48:22.560 --> 0:48:24.840 stuff was always from from our friends in the media 0:48:25.200 --> 0:48:28.960 and reportedly, uh, the gun tried to try to get 0:48:29.000 --> 0:48:32.000 fired twice. So pull pull the Trigar at least two times, 0:48:32.239 --> 0:48:34.640 and when they recovered it there was no round chambered. 0:48:34.680 --> 0:48:40.600 So he may have just not like like. He could 0:48:40.640 --> 0:48:42.960 have just not cocked it at all, and that could 0:48:43.000 --> 0:48:46.120 be why I didn't fire like. It's unclear that this 0:48:46.160 --> 0:48:48.120 whole thing is really like the like. It's it's the 0:48:48.239 --> 0:48:51.800 Verdin Virgin Kirshner assassin versus the chat abbe assassin, that 0:48:51.920 --> 0:48:54.080 the Chad aube assassin went to the time of building 0:48:54.120 --> 0:48:57.600 his own weapon. He fired it twice, bullshots went off. 0:48:58.040 --> 0:49:02.479 Fucking Virgin, this guy zero fires it twice, doesn't doesn't 0:49:02.520 --> 0:49:07.080 build his own weapon. Zero bullets come out. Do we 0:49:07.120 --> 0:49:09.799 know if it's legal for this person to own? The 0:49:09.800 --> 0:49:12.080 guy in Argentina, it's heard they like a quiet legally 0:49:12.080 --> 0:49:14.120 and not being able to test it illegally and not 0:49:14.160 --> 0:49:15.600 being able to test it, because that would have also 0:49:15.680 --> 0:49:20.360 sort of got some attention to them. I believe it's illegal. Okay, yeah, well, 0:49:20.440 --> 0:49:23.160 either way, I should have just done the older, the 0:49:23.160 --> 0:49:25.400 old Abe method with the pipe gun and the battery, 0:49:25.440 --> 0:49:28.279 I guess. Well, do you know what isn't illegal, and 0:49:28.320 --> 0:49:34.719 that's assembling your open. No, it's uh, that's very illegal. where, uh, 0:49:34.800 --> 0:49:38.520 these products and services which support this podcast very not illegal. 0:49:39.520 --> 0:49:41.840 All right, we are we, we are back. I'm going 0:49:41.920 --> 0:49:45.480 to share with you, guys, the document I'm looking at, uh, 0:49:45.680 --> 0:49:49.439 so you can, so you can have have fun looking 0:49:49.480 --> 0:49:52.560 at all of these, uh, these symbols with me. Um, 0:49:52.760 --> 0:49:55.719 scroll to where the first picture is, Um, and then 0:49:55.760 --> 0:49:59.000 we'll then we're gonna go over all of the all 0:49:59.040 --> 0:50:01.400 of the weird ship that we have. This is what 0:50:01.480 --> 0:50:04.560 so we're looking at his facebook likes here. Yes, these 0:50:04.560 --> 0:50:10.640 are the facebook pages that he follows God. So, yeah, 0:50:10.719 --> 0:50:12.920 this is a bit of a Red Flag. There's some 0:50:13.000 --> 0:50:16.120 yikes here. So yeah, UM, thirty five years old. He 0:50:16.160 --> 0:50:18.560 has a Chilean father and an Argentine mother. He's lived 0:50:18.560 --> 0:50:21.680 in Argentina for at least twenty years. His profiles on 0:50:21.719 --> 0:50:25.360 facebook and Instagram we're taking down pretty soon. On his instagram, 0:50:25.440 --> 0:50:37.319 he described himself as a devout Christian. Sure, buddy here. Yes, yes, Um, 0:50:37.760 --> 0:50:40.840 he didn't comment on Brazilian politics very much. It was 0:50:40.880 --> 0:50:44.600 mostly interested in Argentina, Um, but and a lot of 0:50:44.640 --> 0:50:48.640 the esoteric Nazi stuff. Um, a lot of the weird 0:50:48.719 --> 0:50:52.000 like there's actually an interesting history of Esoteric Nazia stuff, 0:50:52.120 --> 0:50:56.120 specifically inside Argentina as well. Obviously a lot of Nazis 0:50:56.120 --> 0:50:58.880 fled to Argentina. They've kind of kind of been a 0:50:58.960 --> 0:51:02.680 fostered ground for them. But yeah, there's there's a lot 0:51:02.719 --> 0:51:04.840 of a lot of stuff here. Um, one of the 0:51:04.840 --> 0:51:09.200 pages he follows is named Camarada Miguel S S, which 0:51:09.239 --> 0:51:13.240 is just a picture of like Nazi soldiers in armed bands. 0:51:14.840 --> 0:51:18.520 Your understanding this? All right, that's a hit and nothing 0:51:18.600 --> 0:51:23.360 to me. There's there's there's a lot of stuff Biblioteca esoterica. 0:51:24.000 --> 0:51:27.040 But yeah, there's there's stuff from like Gnosticism, there's stuff 0:51:27.040 --> 0:51:31.120 on freemasonry, Um, all of like it's kind of like 0:51:31.160 --> 0:51:33.879 a it's a little bit of a basic bit here. 0:51:33.960 --> 0:51:38.200 This is like it's not for for this type of guy. 0:51:38.280 --> 0:51:41.080 It's not surprising. Obviously he's not like a normal dude, 0:51:41.320 --> 0:51:44.319 but for someone who's into esoteric fashion stuff, you're like, okay, yeah, 0:51:44.360 --> 0:51:46.640 you hit all the things like you're I'm not surprised 0:51:46.640 --> 0:51:50.640 looking at your page. Um. So yeah, like we said, 0:51:50.680 --> 0:51:54.160 he's tattooed with Black Son Iron Cross and and a 0:51:54.320 --> 0:51:58.200 mule near Um now, obviously the iron cross the mule 0:51:58.239 --> 0:52:01.359 near are not symbols created by not ses. Uh. You know, 0:52:01.440 --> 0:52:05.400 they were previously existing symbols. Iron Cross existed in the 0:52:05.400 --> 0:52:08.680 PRUSSIAN Army. The mill neaire is an old nordic symbol. 0:52:09.239 --> 0:52:13.120 But both of these were UH CO opted by the 0:52:13.200 --> 0:52:17.160 Nazis Pretty Pretty Uh, pretty strongly, uh, and now have 0:52:17.280 --> 0:52:21.799 very strong associations. If you scroll down to the next page, Um, 0:52:23.239 --> 0:52:27.640 I have all of his tattoos here. So you can 0:52:27.640 --> 0:52:29.600 see a bit of the son of red on his 0:52:29.760 --> 0:52:33.280 on his elbow, you can see some of the hammer 0:52:33.800 --> 0:52:37.560 on his uh. I believe his right hand has the 0:52:37.600 --> 0:52:44.120 hammer and his left hand has the has the Iron Cross. Uh. So, 0:52:45.160 --> 0:52:49.520 I mean, what's this diamond thing on? I'm going to 0:52:49.640 --> 0:52:53.759 get to that. So the Black Son's son and Rad. 0:52:53.760 --> 0:52:56.280 We've talked about this on the show a lot. Um, 0:52:56.320 --> 0:53:00.080 it exists before as of a lot of libs, a 0:53:00.120 --> 0:53:02.800 lot of liberals now think it's an asaf battalian symbol. 0:53:03.520 --> 0:53:06.319 Uh No, I mean that this you know, uh, a 0:53:06.320 --> 0:53:10.280 lot of Nazi mass shooters have had son and red 0:53:10.280 --> 0:53:12.200 like patches and stuff for years and years and years. 0:53:12.239 --> 0:53:15.040 It's been very popular. It's also very popular among Esoteric 0:53:15.080 --> 0:53:18.840 Fascists also very popular among like you see a lot 0:53:18.880 --> 0:53:20.960 of wagner group guys with this, like you see there's 0:53:20.960 --> 0:53:24.600 a lot of Russian soldiers who have so. But no, 0:53:24.960 --> 0:53:28.279 and it makes sense as in its popularity, as like 0:53:28.480 --> 0:53:32.040 an esoteric fascist symbol. This guy is into all of 0:53:32.040 --> 0:53:34.480 the esoteric fascist ship, so he's of course he's going 0:53:34.560 --> 0:53:40.239 to have a black son Um. Uh. So the that 0:53:40.280 --> 0:53:42.920 now James mentioned another Tattoo Whi kind of looks like 0:53:42.920 --> 0:53:48.520 a diamond, which is the drazzle immursal, which is how 0:53:48.680 --> 0:53:52.680 how that's how I'm going to pronounce it, because nobody cares. Um. 0:53:53.239 --> 0:53:56.759 It means a great tall pillar. It's known as like 0:53:56.800 --> 0:54:01.399 the tree bridge that would connect the to like the celestial, 0:54:02.239 --> 0:54:06.799 like greater reality. The urmnsule plays an important role in 0:54:06.960 --> 0:54:11.319 like old GERMANIC paganism. Um, it was there probably was 0:54:11.360 --> 0:54:15.800 a physical sacrificial site adorned with like big pillars. Um. 0:54:15.840 --> 0:54:18.360 But I like like a lot of the old weird 0:54:18.400 --> 0:54:23.120 German ship. It got notified. Um Heindri Khindler founded the 0:54:23.160 --> 0:54:26.800 Society for research and teaching of ancestral heritage in nineteen 0:54:28.520 --> 0:54:31.920 which was this was in an organization with the aim 0:54:32.080 --> 0:54:39.640 of retracing, quote, ancient Aryan artifacts that support the master race, theory. Um. 0:54:40.200 --> 0:54:43.719 And Uh, he used one of these for the original 0:54:43.800 --> 0:54:47.280 symbol of this organization, which is all about like tracing 0:54:47.320 --> 0:54:51.160 back old Germanic like pagan ship, to be like here's 0:54:51.200 --> 0:54:54.520 evidence that we're the master race and all of our 0:54:54.840 --> 0:54:58.640 he's he's like trying to manufacture anthropology which supports all 0:54:58.680 --> 0:55:01.799 of the bad science that as we are Arians and 0:55:01.840 --> 0:55:03.919 we are better. So he's it's in this like fake 0:55:04.000 --> 0:55:06.319 and you know, it's like the Indiana Jones stuff, like 0:55:06.360 --> 0:55:07.960 this is, this, is, this is, this is what he's 0:55:07.960 --> 0:55:11.760 trying to do. Um. But that one of the symbols 0:55:11.880 --> 0:55:17.640 used for that was the immnstule or the Yah drazil. Uh. 0:55:17.960 --> 0:55:22.640 Possibly this symbol was also linked to Odin. It's unclear 0:55:23.680 --> 0:55:28.640 because the actual God of that represents, im Minstrel, is 0:55:28.640 --> 0:55:32.800 hard to trace. Um. But yeah, probably a sacred object 0:55:32.800 --> 0:55:35.919 in the form of a pillar that represents kind of 0:55:35.960 --> 0:55:40.560 the trunk of the Nordic Spiritual Cosmos that rises up 0:55:40.600 --> 0:55:44.279 into kind of the heavens. Yes, it's it's something. It's 0:55:44.280 --> 0:55:47.600 something the Nazis pilfered from like Germanic paganism turned it 0:55:47.640 --> 0:55:51.320 into Nazi ship and became this idea around the spiritual 0:55:51.360 --> 0:55:55.000 center of like German nationalism. It's like it's this this this, 0:55:55.120 --> 0:55:58.399 this spiritual thing that represents how pure we are as 0:55:58.840 --> 0:56:04.480 German nationalists. Anyway. Uh, obviously the shooter is not German, 0:56:04.520 --> 0:56:09.480 which is kind of so I wonder. I wonder why 0:56:09.520 --> 0:56:11.680 he has that. Huh, I wonder what he's trying to 0:56:11.719 --> 0:56:14.600 stay there. It just likes German people. It's interesting in 0:56:14.600 --> 0:56:17.239 the culture. But yes, he has one of these on 0:56:17.440 --> 0:56:21.680 his uh, I believe it's his left hand, um on 0:56:21.680 --> 0:56:23.759 on on his forearm. It's a, it's IT'S A it's 0:56:23.760 --> 0:56:27.680 a pretty intricate symbol. Uh. Yeah, that's like his best 0:56:27.719 --> 0:56:31.439 tattoo as well. Some of the other is a pretty robey. Yeah, 0:56:31.719 --> 0:56:36.719 the the millionaire Tattoo is not very good. Um, the 0:56:36.719 --> 0:56:40.520 the the iron cross is pretty faded. But but the 0:56:41.239 --> 0:56:45.080 great pillar once decent um in terms of like quality. Again, 0:56:45.160 --> 0:56:49.120 we're just we're just reviewing the esoteric fashion. Ye, yeah, 0:56:49.160 --> 0:56:56.000 best fashion. Um, look as fascination week is also fashion week. Yeah, 0:56:56.000 --> 0:56:59.320 it's true. Would you say better or worse than the 0:56:59.400 --> 0:57:02.120 berries and the scheme mask at this point, I like 0:57:02.160 --> 0:57:05.800 the scheme masks. I think, I think it's slightly better. 0:57:08.040 --> 0:57:14.640 Take this, the thing that James was asking about previously. 0:57:15.200 --> 0:57:20.640 There's this really weird symbol that obviously looks kind of 0:57:21.240 --> 0:57:25.040 Swastika Ish. It's it's very like. It's, it's, it's, it's 0:57:25.120 --> 0:57:30.920 made up of like two different runes combined into one symbol. Um. This, 0:57:30.920 --> 0:57:34.600 this is, this is the kind of logo of an 0:57:34.760 --> 0:57:37.919 Esoteric Neo Nazi sect in Argentina founded by a very 0:57:38.000 --> 0:57:43.760 famous Argentina and Neo Nazi named Nimrod de Rosario, which 0:57:43.800 --> 0:57:47.000 I do like that his name is Nim Rod. Yeah, like, 0:57:47.080 --> 0:57:53.160 Oh God. So, yes, Um, I highlighted this, this thing. 0:57:53.480 --> 0:57:55.600 Do you want to try to try to pronounce that one? 0:57:55.720 --> 0:58:03.160 That one's, uh yeah, Argentina. So like. So, that is 0:58:03.200 --> 0:58:08.920 the name of the sect. It's the symbols a combination 0:58:09.400 --> 0:58:15.040 of the odal run and the Tyra Rune. Um, hence 0:58:15.080 --> 0:58:20.600 the name Tyro Dal or UH tirodal. It's, it's, it's, 0:58:20.600 --> 0:58:24.200 it's a combination of these things into this new thing. Um. 0:58:24.240 --> 0:58:29.040 So this is like very popular for this type of 0:58:29.080 --> 0:58:34.280 like kind of kind of esoteric Nazi writer. UH, inside, 0:58:34.840 --> 0:58:38.960 inside Argentina. He had so that the assassin or attempted 0:58:39.000 --> 0:58:43.520 assassin had a few of these things saved. Um, it 0:58:43.640 --> 0:58:47.160 was actually an organization like the order of nights, the 0:58:47.160 --> 0:58:51.800 herodal nights, or how we say that. I mean not really. 0:58:51.880 --> 0:58:58.960 It's just a facebook chival recorder. It's it's hard to say. 0:58:59.120 --> 0:59:02.560 I mean like no, they're not, they're not out there 0:59:02.640 --> 0:59:07.600 doing tons of ship. Um. Are they laughing? Yes, yes, 0:59:07.680 --> 0:59:10.320 they are. I mean all as soon as would any 0:59:10.360 --> 0:59:12.240 one of these groups called themselves like an order of 0:59:12.280 --> 0:59:15.240 the nights. They're always larping, like, they're always they're always 0:59:15.280 --> 0:59:18.000 doing kind of alert like whenever something like the templar 0:59:18.040 --> 0:59:22.640 isn't ship you're like, okay, edition recently who joined like 0:59:22.720 --> 0:59:26.200 the he's like sworn to protect Christians in the Holy Land. 0:59:26.200 --> 0:59:31.720 It was very funny. Yeah, like come on, yeah, all right, 0:59:31.760 --> 0:59:33.680 so he's a big yeah, he's got a lot of 0:59:33.720 --> 0:59:37.400 Christian stuff as well, like I'm looking at the and yeah, 0:59:37.480 --> 0:59:39.520 I mean that's that's kind of with all of like 0:59:39.720 --> 0:59:41.960 the GNOSTICISM stuff, which it was draws on a lot 0:59:42.000 --> 0:59:44.640 of like Christian imagery or Catholic imagery, and he didn't 0:59:44.640 --> 0:59:48.160 describe himself as a Christian on his instagram account, which 0:59:48.240 --> 0:59:51.240 still it's like okay, but you're you're into some weirder 0:59:51.240 --> 0:59:53.720 ship than that. But yeah, there is there, there is. 0:59:53.760 --> 0:59:56.040 There is some of a Christian basis for this style 0:59:56.080 --> 1:00:00.200 of like esoterrorism. I feel you're okay. Well, I just 1:00:00.240 --> 1:00:03.760 found it. I'm sorry, I just scrolled down. I didn't 1:00:03.760 --> 1:00:07.560 expect to see that. Expect to see what is it like? 1:00:07.600 --> 1:00:13.720 A CAM girl? Oh, yes, yes, he was. He was 1:00:13.800 --> 1:00:18.480 retweeting a cab girl on his twitter. Yes, so I 1:00:18.760 --> 1:00:26.120 have some other stuff here on the the Argentinian Patriot front, um, 1:00:26.360 --> 1:00:31.760 but please, different Patriot front to them, the American one. 1:00:32.920 --> 1:00:34.480 But that was just talking. I just wanted to talk 1:00:34.920 --> 1:00:41.680 briefly a bit about like Argentinian like uh, Nazism or fascism, um, 1:00:41.760 --> 1:00:45.760 much like Brazilian stuff with Basonero and the kind of 1:00:45.760 --> 1:00:49.440 the the the fascist groups that have been active in 1:00:49.480 --> 1:00:51.840 both countries for a while. Both of them have historical 1:00:51.920 --> 1:00:55.120 roots that go back to the twenties, twentie century. Their 1:00:55.200 --> 1:00:57.800 Ne Nazi and Neo Fascist groups that have been active 1:00:57.800 --> 1:01:00.680 in Argentina for decades. We've talked. We talked a little 1:01:00.680 --> 1:01:02.640 bit about this in the Kyle written has cultural center 1:01:02.680 --> 1:01:06.360 as well. Um, as it relates to like anti communist 1:01:06.640 --> 1:01:12.280 like stuff. Um, one of the kind of oldest groups 1:01:12.600 --> 1:01:18.800 of of of Argentinian fascism, uh, formed into a new 1:01:18.880 --> 1:01:28.280 group called Patriot front, or friente Patriot Patriota. How. How 1:01:28.280 --> 1:01:29.480 would you? How would you say that? How would you 1:01:29.480 --> 1:01:33.160 say that? Patrick, I was close, I was, you were 1:01:33.160 --> 1:01:37.120 really there. Form like it. I already thought you had it, Um. 1:01:37.160 --> 1:01:41.640 But yeah, so that's this new group. Patriot front, was 1:01:41.680 --> 1:01:47.480 formed in Um, but it's based off of a very famous, uh, 1:01:47.960 --> 1:01:54.960 far right leader called Aleandro Bandino. Um, just how again? 1:01:55.080 --> 1:01:58.000 That's how how I'm gonna do it. Uh. Should his 1:01:58.120 --> 1:02:03.800 name was? His name is highlighted here Italian, like, yeah, 1:02:03.920 --> 1:02:07.800 that's yeah, that's name. I mean, but he's, he's he's 1:02:07.840 --> 1:02:11.439 been active in Argentina's far right sphere for a long, 1:02:11.520 --> 1:02:14.000 long time, like he's he's kind of like the main 1:02:14.320 --> 1:02:17.960 guy who's trying to do stuff. He's six, sixty six 1:02:18.040 --> 1:02:24.640 years old. Um, he was born in Argentina. Um. Yeah, 1:02:24.760 --> 1:02:29.920 I was. Argentina has a massive Um Italian population. This 1:02:30.000 --> 1:02:31.520 has been like, this has been for sort of a 1:02:31.560 --> 1:02:34.720 long time. Like, yeah, and this sort of this cuts 1:02:34.760 --> 1:02:36.600 both ways politically, like a lot of those guys used 1:02:36.640 --> 1:02:39.600 to be anarchists, like there's a hugenicis huvement in Argentina 1:02:39.640 --> 1:02:44.920 for a long time. So a lot of weird fascists. 1:02:44.960 --> 1:02:47.760 So it is. It is. It is interesting that like 1:02:47.800 --> 1:02:50.320 this neo Nazi assassin again wasn't part of any of 1:02:50.320 --> 1:02:53.080 these groups. Wasn't really aligned with this Patriot front group, 1:02:53.400 --> 1:02:55.560 wasn't really aligned with any other kind of actual like 1:02:55.600 --> 1:02:59.920 far right political activism. Um, he was just into weird. 1:03:00.400 --> 1:03:02.720 He was into like dressing up as a as a 1:03:02.720 --> 1:03:07.760 wizard and talking about weird GNOSTICISM and Fascism online. And 1:03:07.760 --> 1:03:11.680 then he tried to kill the vice president. Um, did he? 1:03:11.800 --> 1:03:13.560 It was just like an impulse thing or it's just 1:03:13.680 --> 1:03:17.960 like a long planned I think he did live nearby. 1:03:18.080 --> 1:03:20.480 I mean, I believe it's. I mean she was in 1:03:20.480 --> 1:03:23.960 the capital city. So yeah, yeah, well, it's a it's 1:03:24.000 --> 1:03:27.360 a big place. You can walkably, you can, you can, 1:03:27.480 --> 1:03:31.200 you can get around if you're dedicated. People around the city. 1:03:31.240 --> 1:03:34.919 Of which cities? Again, I can't remember. I can't remember either. 1:03:35.240 --> 1:03:40.280 You know, I. I. WHO's to say? WHO's to say? So, yes, 1:03:40.400 --> 1:03:44.240 this is this is the story of the uh not 1:03:44.440 --> 1:03:47.720 assassination that was attempted a few weeks ago in Argentina 1:03:47.920 --> 1:03:51.560 and the guy behind it, who should have just learned 1:03:51.560 --> 1:03:57.439 to play D and D um like, honestly, yeah, well, 1:03:57.640 --> 1:03:59.880 he didn't know it's probably going to spend it on 1:04:00.000 --> 1:04:03.360 time in jail now. Probably. I mean he he did 1:04:03.360 --> 1:04:08.280 not kill the vice president, but he didn't put a 1:04:08.320 --> 1:04:10.560 gun into her face and tried to pull the trigger 1:04:10.600 --> 1:04:13.080 two times in front of tons of unfortunately, that gets 1:04:13.080 --> 1:04:16.640 you to attempted assassination. Yeah, I think. I think that's 1:04:16.640 --> 1:04:19.320 a I think, even if he didn't know how to 1:04:19.400 --> 1:04:24.800 chamber his round properly. Yeah, once again the master race prevails. So, yeah, 1:04:24.840 --> 1:04:27.840 and any any other notes on on this guy or 1:04:27.840 --> 1:04:30.960 the stuff in Argentina? Any any comments? Comments from the 1:04:31.160 --> 1:04:36.600 from the gallery? Not Fascinating stuff. This again, this is, 1:04:36.720 --> 1:04:39.439 this is. He is so much less cool and worse 1:04:39.480 --> 1:04:42.959 of an assassin than the big guy. This guy sucks. Yeah, 1:04:43.720 --> 1:04:47.480 compared to he's, he's he's the probably the least based 1:04:47.480 --> 1:04:50.520 guy we're gonna be talking about. Yeah, I think right. Like, 1:04:50.560 --> 1:04:55.480 at least ETA was successful in sending someone into as. 1:04:56.040 --> 1:05:00.360 You can buy Nimrod's books on Amazon Dot Com. Yeah, album, 1:05:02.040 --> 1:05:05.959 some of those, you should be able to do that. 1:05:06.680 --> 1:05:10.240 Come on, he has a twitter account. All right, let's 1:05:10.240 --> 1:05:14.880 just read some of these tweets in English or Spanish. UH, Spanish, 1:05:15.840 --> 1:05:19.520 but I can, I can trans I can do Google translate. Um, oh, 1:05:19.720 --> 1:05:24.160 talking about Zionist terrorism. Um, the myth of the Holocaust. 1:05:24.200 --> 1:05:31.920 I mean it's again, he's, he's, he's. What do you what? 1:05:32.040 --> 1:05:36.200 Do you expect physical reaction to that last one? But yes, 1:05:36.360 --> 1:05:39.080 so this, this was the guy that had the symbol, 1:05:39.360 --> 1:05:43.400 that that that had the weird, the weird combination ruined symbol, 1:05:43.880 --> 1:05:47.680 that that the assassin liked the books of and used 1:05:47.720 --> 1:05:50.520 the symbology of on his facebook. I just, I just 1:05:50.560 --> 1:05:57.240 sent the writers of twitter account to the cool sound chat. Um. 1:05:57.280 --> 1:06:01.920 I feel like once once I go to nimbrod's twitter 1:06:02.000 --> 1:06:07.600 page on the Hut to follow section, it recommends Alexander Dugan. Good. 1:06:08.000 --> 1:06:11.880 So that this this was the guy. I had vaguely 1:06:11.880 --> 1:06:16.560 read somewhere that this guy like, like, isn't he dead? 1:06:16.920 --> 1:06:21.080 I believe he's dead. So who's running this twitter account 1:06:21.280 --> 1:06:26.960 for a while? These are some some lackeys using the nineties. 1:06:27.160 --> 1:06:30.520 He died in seven. Okay, so this is like, yeah, 1:06:30.720 --> 1:06:35.440 this is like some lackey is posting honest account to 1:06:35.560 --> 1:06:42.480 plug his books. Um, yeah, the state. Yeah, he's retreating 1:06:42.520 --> 1:06:46.960 the Falange. It's funny. Look to the people he retweet. 1:06:47.000 --> 1:06:48.840 You go to their account and it's like this account 1:06:48.880 --> 1:06:52.760 is temporary unavailable because it violates twitter's media policy. Yeah, 1:06:53.000 --> 1:06:57.800 I wonder. I wonder why. I wonder what Nazis. Yeah, 1:06:58.600 --> 1:07:02.000 I do like. Um, Nim Rod's website is down, which 1:07:02.040 --> 1:07:05.440 is good. That is that is nice. His official website 1:07:05.640 --> 1:07:10.960 is offline, so that's good. Um, it sucks that his 1:07:10.960 --> 1:07:13.960 books are on Amazon, but you know, it's good. What 1:07:14.000 --> 1:07:17.040 can you do? It is, it is. It is good 1:07:17.080 --> 1:07:21.760 that he's dead, Mum. So He is dead, the vice 1:07:21.760 --> 1:07:25.240 president is not and the assassin is probably gonna be 1:07:25.320 --> 1:07:35.880 in jail for a long time. And that's the episode. 1:07:40.080 --> 1:07:43.640 This is assassination week. Oh God, my left arm, pet 1:07:43.640 --> 1:07:52.640 it hurts so much. Land doesn't feel so good. Ronald 1:07:53.400 --> 1:08:00.000 Wilson Reagan, six, six, six, six letters in any way, whatever. Um, 1:08:00.040 --> 1:08:02.040 I'm Robert Evans. This is it could happen here, a 1:08:02.080 --> 1:08:06.120 podcast about assassinating world leaders. Um, that's why it's called 1:08:06.200 --> 1:08:08.760 it could happen here, and today we're talking about a 1:08:08.880 --> 1:08:13.560 time where it did, when John Hinckley Jr shot Ronald 1:08:13.560 --> 1:08:18.679 Wilson Reagan, Um with me today, James Stout, Garrison Davis, 1:08:19.400 --> 1:08:22.599 Um and of course, of course, the ghost of Ronald Reagan, 1:08:22.640 --> 1:08:26.880 who was a regular contributor to our to our podcasts, 1:08:27.120 --> 1:08:30.200 along with the ghost of the Queen. And Yeah, now 1:08:30.240 --> 1:08:34.880 the ghost of the Queen has joined the team. Very excited. Um. So, 1:08:34.920 --> 1:08:38.720 obviously John Hinckley shot Reagan. We're gonna get into a 1:08:38.760 --> 1:08:41.320 lot of detail about Mr Hinckley's life. This is something 1:08:41.360 --> 1:08:43.719 that is joked about a lot on the Internet, including 1:08:43.760 --> 1:08:47.759 by me. Um. But you know, it's it's it's interesting 1:08:47.800 --> 1:08:50.680 because there's there's two strains of people who will like 1:08:51.320 --> 1:08:52.920 come out and tell you it's not cool to joke 1:08:52.960 --> 1:08:56.439 about John Hinckley JR shooting Ronald Reagan, and one of 1:08:56.479 --> 1:08:58.439 them is right. which are the people who are like, well, 1:08:58.439 --> 1:09:01.320 actually like it's pretty messed up store or and he 1:09:02.000 --> 1:09:04.200 like it's it's kind of messed up to to laugh 1:09:04.240 --> 1:09:07.560 about this family's tragedy, because it was a family's tragedy, 1:09:07.640 --> 1:09:09.640 and the other people are like no, it's fucked up 1:09:09.640 --> 1:09:11.760 because he had the hots for Jodie foster and what 1:09:11.800 --> 1:09:14.120 was actually going on there was a lot more complicated, 1:09:14.439 --> 1:09:17.120 um than that. So we're gonna talk about all of 1:09:17.160 --> 1:09:19.360 the things that happened in this shooting, which was messed 1:09:19.400 --> 1:09:22.519 up and which I probably shouldn't joke about on twitter, Um, 1:09:22.600 --> 1:09:25.240 because it's actually really bleak. Um, and in order to 1:09:25.320 --> 1:09:29.080 understand both why it's sad on a personal level and 1:09:29.120 --> 1:09:32.479 why it's a tragedy for the entire country. Um. Yeah, 1:09:32.560 --> 1:09:37.040 I'm just gonna start by talking about John Warnock Hinckley Jr, 1:09:37.080 --> 1:09:41.440 who was born on May twenty nine, nineteen and are more, Oklahoma, 1:09:41.560 --> 1:09:43.320 which is about two and a half hours from where 1:09:43.360 --> 1:09:46.479 I grew up in Oklahoma. Unlike me, John's Dad, who 1:09:46.560 --> 1:09:49.679 was John Warnock Hinckley senior, was the chairman and president 1:09:49.720 --> 1:09:52.439 of Vanderbilt Energy. So they had lots of money, a 1:09:52.520 --> 1:09:57.400 lot of a lot of walking around money and vanderbilt money. Yeah, 1:09:57.640 --> 1:10:00.360 and like most people who have good money, they don't 1:10:00.360 --> 1:10:03.960 stay in Oklahoma. Um, they have any owls and the 1:10:04.160 --> 1:10:07.920 vanderbilts big must, I'm certain they did, add owls to 1:10:07.960 --> 1:10:11.479 this story as you picture John's childhood. Um, so their 1:10:11.560 --> 1:10:13.160 rich as hell and they get the funk out of 1:10:13.160 --> 1:10:15.760 Oklahoma and moved to Dallas, Texas when John was four, 1:10:15.800 --> 1:10:18.080 which is so far weirdly like my life in a 1:10:18.080 --> 1:10:20.400 lot of ways, although I was a bit older. Um, 1:10:20.560 --> 1:10:23.400 maybe that's why I didn't get the madness. So that's 1:10:23.400 --> 1:10:27.000 not why. Normally, getting kids away from Oklahoma really really 1:10:27.040 --> 1:10:30.400 fix his stuff. But John was taken. John was taken 1:10:30.760 --> 1:10:33.720 to the only place more toxic than small town Oklahoma, 1:10:33.920 --> 1:10:37.519 a wealthy neighborhood in the Dallas Fort Worth Metroplex. He 1:10:37.600 --> 1:10:40.800 attended Highland Park High School, the school where I would 1:10:40.880 --> 1:10:44.880 later lose several speech and debate competitions and win one 1:10:44.960 --> 1:10:47.519 or two as well. Um, it's where, if you if 1:10:47.520 --> 1:10:50.320 you're in the DFW area, the rich kids who don't 1:10:50.360 --> 1:10:53.360 have good drugs go to highland park, but which rich 1:10:53.439 --> 1:10:56.320 kids with good drugs go to Jesuit because they're private 1:10:56.360 --> 1:10:59.280 school kids. But Highland Park is like the rich kids 1:10:59.320 --> 1:11:00.799 who are gonna like try to sell you a shitty 1:11:00.800 --> 1:11:04.040 ditch weed. Anyway, these are this is important Dallas Fort 1:11:04.040 --> 1:11:06.760 Worth context and I assume it was the same when 1:11:06.760 --> 1:11:09.599 he was a child. Um, as far as I've ever 1:11:09.720 --> 1:11:12.559 found any information, he was a pretty your normal young 1:11:12.560 --> 1:11:15.599 man for that time and place. UH, there's no one 1:11:15.640 --> 1:11:20.160 really seems to notice anything particularly different about him. Um, 1:11:20.160 --> 1:11:23.599 he does reasonably well in school. Uh, later in life 1:11:23.600 --> 1:11:26.080 he's going to express some racist thoughts in his diary 1:11:26.120 --> 1:11:28.960 and in other writings prior to the shooting. It doesn't 1:11:29.000 --> 1:11:31.200 really seem to have ever been a motivating factor in 1:11:31.240 --> 1:11:34.480 his life and to the extent that he had regressive beliefs, 1:11:34.920 --> 1:11:36.439 they seem to have been due to the fact that 1:11:36.479 --> 1:11:40.160 he grew up in a sheltered, rich, all white environment. Um, 1:11:40.200 --> 1:11:44.599 and that's not great for you. Um, shocked. Yeah, shocked 1:11:46.439 --> 1:11:49.160 in Texas no less. One right up in the New 1:11:49.200 --> 1:11:52.479 Republic describes his childhood this way. Perhaps it is fear 1:11:52.560 --> 1:11:55.080 of what lies outside that makes the interior of the 1:11:55.120 --> 1:11:57.880 family so rigid and subdued, like life in a well 1:11:57.960 --> 1:12:00.639 run bunker. The world of the hinkleys was the rootless 1:12:00.640 --> 1:12:03.639 middle class sun belt culture that nurtures pro family values, 1:12:03.760 --> 1:12:08.080 Christian fundamentalism and occasional mass murderers. Families move frequently, but 1:12:08.160 --> 1:12:12.480 without compromising their parochialism. Everywhere people are white. Christian Republican 1:12:12.640 --> 1:12:15.960 Joanne explains John's egregious prejudices by saying he had never 1:12:16.000 --> 1:12:19.120 been around people of other races. Somewhere outside there are 1:12:19.120 --> 1:12:22.439 malign elements, minority groups, rock musicians, big government and the 1:12:22.479 --> 1:12:26.439 cynical Gosmus cosmopolites who dominate the media. Mothers in this 1:12:26.520 --> 1:12:28.840 culture do not lavish attention on their children, but on 1:12:28.880 --> 1:12:34.360 their furniture. Now that is a coastal liberal elite like 1:12:34.560 --> 1:12:37.519 fucking paragraph, trying to describe like people who grow up 1:12:37.560 --> 1:12:39.479 in this situation as someone else who grew up in 1:12:39.479 --> 1:12:42.439 a similar area. I think most of that is pretty 1:12:42.479 --> 1:12:45.200 silly and, more to the point, it doesn't get to 1:12:45.320 --> 1:12:48.439 why John does this. We're getting to why John does this. 1:12:48.560 --> 1:12:51.960 It's not because he grew up sheltered and a little racist. Um. 1:12:52.000 --> 1:12:56.679 That is not why he shoots the president. Um. There is, however, 1:12:56.760 --> 1:13:00.000 a bit of that that that does strike me as accurate. 1:13:00.000 --> 1:13:01.960 It as again, a kid who grew up near here 1:13:02.280 --> 1:13:05.120 a couple of decades later, which is the description of 1:13:05.160 --> 1:13:07.760 his childhood as life and a well run bunker, which 1:13:07.800 --> 1:13:09.479 is kind of how it feels to live in these 1:13:09.520 --> 1:13:13.000 wealthy enclaves in the Dallas Fort Worth area. I grew 1:13:13.040 --> 1:13:15.120 up in plan Oh, which is, you know, a couple 1:13:15.120 --> 1:13:17.720 of steps down the economic rung from Highland Park, but 1:13:17.760 --> 1:13:20.960 not all that far. and Um, yeah, that's that's not 1:13:21.040 --> 1:13:24.160 a bad description of it. It just doesn't generally lead 1:13:24.200 --> 1:13:26.240 to kids shooting the president. More often it leads to 1:13:26.280 --> 1:13:29.040 them shooting up heroin and then dying of heroin overdoses, 1:13:29.040 --> 1:13:31.120 which was the big problem in Plano when I was 1:13:31.160 --> 1:13:33.960 a kid. That said, it's also worth noting that his 1:13:34.040 --> 1:13:35.840 parents are not, as far as I can find, like 1:13:36.040 --> 1:13:40.160 fifties stereotypes like his dad's not this super masculine guy 1:13:40.200 --> 1:13:43.719 who's like mentally abusive to his kid. His his MOM's 1:13:43.800 --> 1:13:46.599 not like checked out. Neither of them are against the 1:13:46.640 --> 1:13:49.000 idea that their son might have a mental illness and 1:13:49.080 --> 1:13:51.519 need help for it. In fact, it seems like they're 1:13:51.600 --> 1:13:55.120 kind of more open to the idea of reaching out 1:13:55.120 --> 1:13:57.559 for professional mental health for their kids than a lot 1:13:57.600 --> 1:13:59.639 of parents would have been at the same time period. 1:14:00.200 --> 1:14:02.840 In nineteen seventy six John Drops out of Texas tech 1:14:02.880 --> 1:14:04.519 to go to Hollywood and try to make it as 1:14:04.560 --> 1:14:07.360 a musician again. His parents are very supportive of him. 1:14:08.080 --> 1:14:10.960 One cannot say they didn't try to help their son 1:14:11.040 --> 1:14:13.120 live his dreams. When he gave up on music and 1:14:13.160 --> 1:14:14.800 he wanted to be a writer, they paid for him 1:14:14.800 --> 1:14:17.000 to take a class at Yale. We'll get to that 1:14:17.080 --> 1:14:20.160 in a second. It doesn't go well, UM, because he's 1:14:20.280 --> 1:14:23.160 yeah anyway. But John's not being honest with his ambitions, 1:14:23.200 --> 1:14:25.320 nor is he open with his parents about his mental health. 1:14:25.680 --> 1:14:28.679 We now know that John Developed Schizophrenia as a young 1:14:28.720 --> 1:14:31.080 man and had a series of psychotic breaks. When he 1:14:31.080 --> 1:14:33.960 would get money to do stuff like this Yale writing class, 1:14:34.000 --> 1:14:36.120 he would take it and buy guns. He did go 1:14:36.240 --> 1:14:39.160 to Yale, but it was mainly to Stalk Jodie Foster, 1:14:39.200 --> 1:14:42.280 who was going to Yale at the same time. Um. Now, 1:14:42.360 --> 1:14:44.439 this is all occurring in the late nineteen seventies and 1:14:44.439 --> 1:14:47.200 early nineteen eighties, which is the fucking Dark Ages for 1:14:47.280 --> 1:14:50.360 treatment of this particular condition and a lot of other conditions. 1:14:50.360 --> 1:14:53.200 There are not a lot of good options. Among other things, 1:14:53.240 --> 1:14:55.439 I just said, he's not open with his parents about 1:14:55.439 --> 1:14:57.960 the fact that his mental health is declining. I don't 1:14:58.000 --> 1:14:59.880 know how he really could have been. I don't unders. 1:15:00.080 --> 1:15:03.280 I don't think it's likely. It's certainly not the case. 1:15:03.360 --> 1:15:04.960 This didn't happen to John, but I don't think it's 1:15:05.040 --> 1:15:07.360 very likely for a young man in this time and 1:15:07.400 --> 1:15:10.520 place to be well equipped by his education or society 1:15:10.560 --> 1:15:12.439 to express what is going on in his head to 1:15:12.479 --> 1:15:15.200 his parents. Um, and you know to be fair to 1:15:15.280 --> 1:15:17.880 his parents, they're not equipped with a lot of like, 1:15:18.439 --> 1:15:21.320 you know, an ability to really help him out here, 1:15:21.320 --> 1:15:24.439 and they're doing the things you would want them to do. Again. 1:15:24.479 --> 1:15:27.920 They repeatedly are bringing in professionals to try to help. Um. 1:15:28.120 --> 1:15:31.280 None of it is particularly useful, but it's not for 1:15:31.360 --> 1:15:34.800 lack of trying. Um, like a lot of people who 1:15:34.800 --> 1:15:38.080 struggle with similar mental health issues, John Seeks refuge in fiction. 1:15:38.439 --> 1:15:41.559 Unfortunately for everybody, the movie that he finds himself most 1:15:41.680 --> 1:15:44.519 drawn to is taxi driver, and I think most people 1:15:44.560 --> 1:15:50.400 are aware of this. It's a bad choice. That's a 1:15:50.479 --> 1:15:53.200 really bad choice. Yes, if he had found maybe adventure 1:15:53.240 --> 1:15:55.440 time or something, it would have been a lot healthier, 1:15:55.920 --> 1:15:59.280 but instead taxi driver. If you haven't seen it, there's 1:15:59.800 --> 1:16:02.720 the and characters, his kid, Travis bickle, played by a 1:16:02.840 --> 1:16:05.320 very young Robert Deniro. It is weird to watch him 1:16:05.360 --> 1:16:08.599 because we're also used to old man Bob Deniro, Um, 1:16:08.640 --> 1:16:12.280 who is thinking about assassinating like a presidential candidate and 1:16:12.320 --> 1:16:16.480 then kind of through movie magic, rescues a child prostitute 1:16:16.520 --> 1:16:21.520 played by Jodie Foster, from a pimp. Um and Hinckley 1:16:21.880 --> 1:16:24.080 thinks the movie is kind of talking to him and 1:16:24.120 --> 1:16:27.679 providing him with like information about how he can fix 1:16:27.720 --> 1:16:31.080 his own life. He starts dressing like Travis bickle. He 1:16:31.120 --> 1:16:34.000 starts wearing like an army jacket and boots and drinking 1:16:34.000 --> 1:16:36.880 the way that bickle drank. He starts buying guns. He 1:16:36.920 --> 1:16:40.559 gets really into guns for you know. Um, he starts, 1:16:40.600 --> 1:16:42.759 you know, in letters that he's writing home to his parents. 1:16:42.880 --> 1:16:45.519 He starts talking about this relationship he has with a 1:16:45.520 --> 1:16:48.880 woman named Lynn, who isn't real but who sounds a 1:16:48.920 --> 1:16:51.439 lot like one of the women that Travis bickle has 1:16:51.439 --> 1:16:55.559 an interest with in the movie. Um and yeah, this 1:16:55.640 --> 1:16:57.960 is kind of the start of his obsession with Jodie Foster, 1:16:58.000 --> 1:16:59.880 and there are people who will like say that he's 1:16:59.880 --> 1:17:02.639 a pedophile because she's thirteen in the movie. That doesn't 1:17:02.640 --> 1:17:05.559 seem to be the case when he is actually stalking 1:17:05.560 --> 1:17:07.880 her and most obsessed with her, she is eighteen and 1:17:07.920 --> 1:17:10.559 he is stalking her in real life and calling her 1:17:10.600 --> 1:17:13.040 on the phone and stuff, which is like bad and 1:17:13.160 --> 1:17:15.920 messed up. But he's not into her because she's young 1:17:15.960 --> 1:17:18.080 in this movie. He's into her because he's he's kind 1:17:18.120 --> 1:17:20.840 of losing his mind and obsessing with her right. So, 1:17:21.240 --> 1:17:22.960 while this is all going on kind of in the 1:17:23.040 --> 1:17:27.400 late stages of this his parents bringing a psychiatrist. Um. Again, 1:17:27.479 --> 1:17:30.240 they're they're willing to fund and support him and seeking 1:17:30.280 --> 1:17:33.840 professional help. The doctor they wound up getting for him. 1:17:34.120 --> 1:17:36.080 I don't know if he's a bad doctor for the time, 1:17:36.160 --> 1:17:38.640 but he's wrong as Hell. He kind of looks at 1:17:38.680 --> 1:17:41.680 the fact that John has been normal, quote unquote and 1:17:42.040 --> 1:17:44.240 quote unquote, in high school and like at the start 1:17:44.280 --> 1:17:46.920 of his college career, and so he looks at this 1:17:47.000 --> 1:17:49.840 kid who's like seems to be developmentally normal up to 1:17:49.880 --> 1:17:52.200 a certain point and then goes off the rails and says, well, 1:17:52.200 --> 1:17:54.280 it's because you were sheltered and coddled by your rich 1:17:54.320 --> 1:17:57.640 parents and you're just lazy right. That's that's that's what 1:17:57.760 --> 1:18:00.160 this guy says. So a big part of his is 1:18:00.200 --> 1:18:02.320 like advice to mom and dad is you gotta cut 1:18:02.400 --> 1:18:04.880 him off. You can't. Can't keep giving him stuff, can't 1:18:04.920 --> 1:18:07.879 keep giving him money, can't keep taking care of him. Um. 1:18:07.920 --> 1:18:09.920 So while this is happening and this guy is like 1:18:10.000 --> 1:18:12.839 making them make plans for John to be less reliant 1:18:12.840 --> 1:18:16.160 on his parents, John Hankley is getting way more into guns. 1:18:16.360 --> 1:18:18.840 He does a lot of target shooting. He also plays 1:18:18.840 --> 1:18:21.439 a lot of Russian roulette with himself alone in his basement, 1:18:21.479 --> 1:18:25.799 which is not not great. Um, in Christmas of nineteen 1:18:25.880 --> 1:18:28.479 seventy nine, he takes a very famous photo of himself 1:18:28.520 --> 1:18:32.480 holding a handgun to his temple. Now John is increasingly 1:18:32.520 --> 1:18:35.280 harassing jodie foster in this period. Now, what he's doing 1:18:35.360 --> 1:18:37.479 is not he's not just obsessing with her and it's 1:18:37.520 --> 1:18:40.240 one sided. He is reaching her on the phone. They 1:18:40.280 --> 1:18:44.720 talk a couple of times. Yes, they do. Uh. She 1:18:45.000 --> 1:18:48.920 is always very terse in their calls. Always, you can 1:18:48.920 --> 1:18:51.759 tell is kind of frightened, but is very controlled and careful. 1:18:51.800 --> 1:18:54.719 I would describe the way she handles this is very 1:18:54.800 --> 1:18:58.120 responsible and, like you can tell, she's talked with like people, 1:18:58.160 --> 1:18:59.920 I think, like her manager or something, and been like 1:19:00.000 --> 1:19:02.519 I have been advised, like, I don't want you calling it. 1:19:02.600 --> 1:19:05.640 She's very tries to be very clear here, Um, and 1:19:05.680 --> 1:19:07.639 I think handles this as well as a person can 1:19:07.680 --> 1:19:11.200 possibly handle, you know, being stalked in this way. I 1:19:11.240 --> 1:19:13.200 believe he's able to get her number because, like, it's 1:19:13.240 --> 1:19:17.200 the eighties and people just have numbers in the phone book. Um, again, 1:19:17.400 --> 1:19:19.360 she's kind of taking a break from Hollywood right now 1:19:19.439 --> 1:19:23.320 and is going to Yale. Um, his obsession with foster 1:19:23.479 --> 1:19:26.400 veers between these kind of like fantasies of like harming 1:19:26.439 --> 1:19:30.479 her or harming a guy that she's with, or harming 1:19:30.560 --> 1:19:34.280 himself and eventually harming the president of the United States. 1:19:34.320 --> 1:19:37.040 Now he is not want to shoot the president for 1:19:37.080 --> 1:19:40.840 political reasons. He has no kind of particular anger at 1:19:40.880 --> 1:19:42.960 the president that he wants to work out with a gun. 1:19:43.360 --> 1:19:46.679 He wants number one to impress her and he wants 1:19:46.720 --> 1:19:49.760 everyone to know his name and know his name associated 1:19:49.760 --> 1:19:53.840 with Jodie foster right because, again, he's very ill. Um, 1:19:54.000 --> 1:19:56.479 he starts following Jimmy Carter around. He goes to like 1:19:56.520 --> 1:19:59.400 three different Jimmy Carter rallies in D C and in Ohio. 1:19:59.720 --> 1:20:02.400 There's video of him twenty feet away from Carter at 1:20:02.400 --> 1:20:05.840 one point. He probably has a gun on him. Um, 1:20:05.880 --> 1:20:09.240 like he gets really close to Carter. Again. One of 1:20:09.280 --> 1:20:12.719 the through lines here is that, like, presidential security wasn't 1:20:12.720 --> 1:20:17.479 great in nineteen yeah, it's not very good. Um, Carter 1:20:17.720 --> 1:20:21.679 John Thinks about shooting Carter. He's probably there and equipped 1:20:21.680 --> 1:20:24.160 to do it, but he just can't get himself into 1:20:24.160 --> 1:20:26.760 the frame of mind to shoot Jimmy Carter, which is 1:20:26.840 --> 1:20:30.120 understandable because it is. It is Jimmy Carter right, like 1:20:30.160 --> 1:20:32.120 he is a hard man to want to shoot to death. 1:20:32.760 --> 1:20:36.160 So there's a moment where he like yeah, so he's 1:20:36.200 --> 1:20:38.840 he's kind of bouncing around. After this period where he 1:20:38.960 --> 1:20:43.280 like is he thinks about shooting Carter, but he doesn't. 1:20:43.520 --> 1:20:47.120 He is in communication with this Nazi ideologue and they 1:20:47.200 --> 1:20:50.559 almost have a meeting but they don't. Um, that's all 1:20:50.640 --> 1:20:53.679 kind of obscure, kind of unclear. And then on October 1:20:53.720 --> 1:20:56.799 six nineteen eighty, he gets arrested at the Nashville airport 1:20:56.840 --> 1:20:59.680 with a briefcase full of handguns and a pair of handcuffs. 1:21:00.479 --> 1:21:08.639 Now hops has been in this situation. The gun bag 1:21:08.800 --> 1:21:14.000 and oops. Yeah, he says he's just trying to sell them, 1:21:14.040 --> 1:21:16.040 and they're like, well, you still can't get on a 1:21:16.080 --> 1:21:19.240 plane with a bunch of guns, John Inkley j this 1:21:19.320 --> 1:21:23.880 is yeah, this is pre night eleven, so you have 1:21:23.960 --> 1:21:27.479 to assist. He's looking weird. He's like sweaty and in 1:21:27.520 --> 1:21:30.559 an army jacket and talking to him and they're like, well, 1:21:30.600 --> 1:21:34.160 we've literally never searched a single person before in the 1:21:34.320 --> 1:21:38.080 entire life of this airport. But let's check this guy. 1:21:38.479 --> 1:21:41.639 What's this massively heavy brief case? There's a fucking there's 1:21:41.680 --> 1:21:43.880 a dude just walking in with a Stinger and they're 1:21:43.920 --> 1:21:45.960 like no, no, let that guy on, but we gotta 1:21:46.080 --> 1:21:51.120 check John Inkley. Um, so he flies to Dallas where 1:21:51.160 --> 1:21:55.200 he buys more handguns and some explosive twenty two caliber bullets. 1:21:55.360 --> 1:21:57.000 We will talk about that in a little bit, but 1:21:57.040 --> 1:22:01.439 they are explosive bullets for twenty two. Yes, they are 1:22:01.479 --> 1:22:04.880 bullets that are to explode on impact. Is He like 1:22:05.000 --> 1:22:07.479 reading soldier of Fortune Magazine at this point? Because this 1:22:07.560 --> 1:22:10.360 is nobody. He's like a gun culture. So I haven't 1:22:10.439 --> 1:22:13.680 we have to assume. I think his family's kind of 1:22:13.760 --> 1:22:18.479 casually conservative. He is kind of maybe, as is embodied 1:22:18.479 --> 1:22:20.920 by the Nazi thing, probably dabbling in some areas. Again, 1:22:22.200 --> 1:22:24.960 I think that's that's certainly not good for him. It's also, 1:22:25.040 --> 1:22:27.719 I don't think politics. I haven't seen any real evidence 1:22:27.720 --> 1:22:30.240 that politics is a motivating factor. And what this guy 1:22:30.360 --> 1:22:35.160 is doing. Um, he does get explosive bullets. Probably helps 1:22:35.200 --> 1:22:37.360 that he has explosive bullets in terms of making this 1:22:37.520 --> 1:22:41.000 less dangerous. These are not good explosive bullets. They are 1:22:41.040 --> 1:22:43.599 meant to be fired out of a larger weapon than 1:22:43.640 --> 1:22:46.759 he fires them out of. But they are supposed to. Basically, 1:22:46.760 --> 1:22:49.040 the idea is that these are twenty two caliber rounds, 1:22:49.040 --> 1:22:51.800 so the idea is that this little explosive charge in 1:22:51.880 --> 1:22:54.200 them makes them more like a thirty eight. So we're 1:22:54.200 --> 1:22:57.559 not talking about like military grade weaponry or anything here. 1:22:57.760 --> 1:23:00.439 Why is he doing? You may not know, of course, 1:23:00.600 --> 1:23:03.360 but like if he's a massive gun dog, it's not 1:23:03.439 --> 1:23:06.120 a massive no, gun culture is different than right. He's 1:23:06.160 --> 1:23:08.760 buying a bunch of handguns. He's shooting a lot. I 1:23:09.000 --> 1:23:11.320 don't know that it would be. He's not particularly good 1:23:11.400 --> 1:23:15.800 or knowledgeable with right. Okay, yeah, but gun cultures very 1:23:15.800 --> 1:23:18.200 it's harder to get information about guns. Right. Maybe the 1:23:18.280 --> 1:23:20.200 day he would have gotten a lot more into like 1:23:20.240 --> 1:23:25.040 just flipping through magazines exactly. You can't look something up online. Yeah, yeah, 1:23:25.320 --> 1:23:29.000 he's twenty two good for assassination, just exactly. And this 1:23:29.080 --> 1:23:30.880 is also like this is what he can afford. Right. 1:23:30.920 --> 1:23:33.760 He gets kind of a he's lost his better guns, right, 1:23:34.479 --> 1:23:37.120 they have their property of the states. So he winds 1:23:37.160 --> 1:23:39.720 up with this twenty two and he gets these explosive 1:23:39.760 --> 1:23:41.639 bullets to try to make it give more of a kick. 1:23:42.200 --> 1:23:45.000 Obviously the thing that's going on in the background here 1:23:45.040 --> 1:23:47.320 is that Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan having a presidential 1:23:47.320 --> 1:23:50.680 election which Reagan wins. Um. We'll talk a little bit 1:23:50.680 --> 1:23:54.360 about kind of that a bit later, but that happens. 1:23:55.520 --> 1:23:59.639 Reagan is the president elect. Um He flies home. Hinckley 1:23:59.680 --> 1:24:02.759 flies home. Things continue to deteriorate in his own life. 1:24:03.400 --> 1:24:07.240 He's continued to travel around. John Lennon is assassinated and 1:24:07.280 --> 1:24:09.439 he kind of goes a little bit nuts over that 1:24:09.479 --> 1:24:12.760 because he loves John Lennon. Also might kind of think 1:24:12.760 --> 1:24:15.519 that he is John Lennon. So that does not help 1:24:15.600 --> 1:24:20.320 his mental state. He visits the the the what is it? 1:24:20.320 --> 1:24:22.040 The shrine to him in New York at one point 1:24:22.040 --> 1:24:23.639 and kind of when he gets back in March of nine, 1:24:24.640 --> 1:24:27.600 his dad cuts him off basically like says, you know, 1:24:27.600 --> 1:24:29.839 you've got your here's your car, here's two hundred dollars. 1:24:30.160 --> 1:24:32.320 We can't take care of you anymore, John. And I 1:24:32.320 --> 1:24:34.560 think this is his dad basically trying to take that 1:24:34.600 --> 1:24:37.200 psychiatrist advice of like it. We need to have tough love. 1:24:37.200 --> 1:24:38.519 He has to be forced to kind of get his 1:24:38.560 --> 1:24:41.640 ship together. But John Hinckley is not really capable of 1:24:41.640 --> 1:24:44.200 getting his ship together because he is profoundly ill. So 1:24:44.240 --> 1:24:46.360 he uses that money to pay for hotel rooms in 1:24:46.400 --> 1:24:49.760 Denver where he sits alone watching television with a gun. Um. 1:24:50.040 --> 1:24:55.479 Not Great Treatment for schizophrenia. Reagan wins the election, uh, 1:24:55.520 --> 1:24:58.600 in what was a sweep electorally but fairly tight in 1:24:58.680 --> 1:25:01.719 terms of popular vote. He got like fifty point five 1:25:01.760 --> 1:25:04.479 percent of the popular boats something like that. It's pretty close. 1:25:04.920 --> 1:25:07.000 And soon after taking office he gets hammered on a 1:25:07.000 --> 1:25:09.439 bunch of stuff. Right, the economy is not great. He's this, 1:25:09.640 --> 1:25:12.120 he's he's back. He's like going for a bunch of 1:25:12.120 --> 1:25:14.400 far right policies to unwind the new deal, a lot 1:25:14.400 --> 1:25:16.280 of which are unpopular and some of which he said 1:25:16.280 --> 1:25:19.479 he wasn't gonna do, and debates with Carter. He's not. 1:25:20.160 --> 1:25:22.760 He doesn't have the kind of traditional grace period most 1:25:22.800 --> 1:25:26.240 presidents get where they're broadly popular. Right, Um, it's not 1:25:26.360 --> 1:25:28.760 looking great for kind of the midterms, is what I'm 1:25:28.800 --> 1:25:32.040 getting at Um. So Reagan's staff is struggling to right 1:25:32.160 --> 1:25:34.080 the ship, trying to figure out like, how do we 1:25:34.320 --> 1:25:37.519 how do we fix all this, Reagan or Hinckley, while 1:25:37.560 --> 1:25:40.000 this is going and gets convinced that like shooting the 1:25:40.000 --> 1:25:42.320 president is a pretty good idea. He doesn't have a 1:25:42.400 --> 1:25:44.680 lot of other options. He's kind of like running out 1:25:44.680 --> 1:25:46.880 of money and he's able to get a little bit 1:25:46.880 --> 1:25:50.320 more from his mom, but he's he's increasingly unhinged and 1:25:50.400 --> 1:25:53.400 alone and desperate. On March twenty nine, he checks into 1:25:53.400 --> 1:25:55.439 a hotel in D C where he finds in a 1:25:55.520 --> 1:25:59.080 local paper the president's schedule. He loads his twenty two 1:25:59.080 --> 1:26:01.920 caliber revolver, he writes a letter to Jodie foster and 1:26:01.920 --> 1:26:04.760 he travels to the Hilton, where the president is set 1:26:04.800 --> 1:26:07.680 to deliver a speech to union workers. Here is how 1:26:07.760 --> 1:26:12.360 John's letter to uh to her ends. Quote. I will 1:26:12.400 --> 1:26:14.120 admit to you that the reason I'm going ahead with 1:26:14.160 --> 1:26:16.559 this attempt now is because I just cannot wait any 1:26:16.560 --> 1:26:18.920 longer to impress you. I've got to do something now 1:26:18.960 --> 1:26:21.200 to make you understand, and no one certain terms, that 1:26:21.240 --> 1:26:23.240 I am doing all of this for your sake. By 1:26:23.240 --> 1:26:25.800 sacrificing my freedom and possibly my life, I hope to 1:26:25.880 --> 1:26:28.559 change your mind about me. This letter is being written 1:26:28.640 --> 1:26:31.320 only an hour before I leave for the Hilton Hotel. Jody, 1:26:31.360 --> 1:26:33.360 I'm asking you to please look into your heart and 1:26:33.400 --> 1:26:35.719 at least give me the chance, with this historical deed, 1:26:35.800 --> 1:26:38.320 to gain your respect and love. I love you forever, 1:26:38.760 --> 1:26:46.439 John Hankley. It's not great. Yeah, yeah, not a great 1:26:46.520 --> 1:26:50.000 letter to get, not a great letter to ascend was. 1:26:50.000 --> 1:26:53.400 Was this actually delivered in the mail? I believe so. Yeah, 1:26:53.439 --> 1:26:55.400 I think this she ends up getting this. I mean, 1:26:55.439 --> 1:26:58.160 like she has to come to court and stuff when 1:26:58.160 --> 1:27:00.439 he goes on trial. It's like something he kind of 1:27:00.479 --> 1:27:02.640 demands and I think she does to just make it 1:27:02.680 --> 1:27:06.920 easier for things to move along. Um, obviously she. She 1:27:07.000 --> 1:27:09.120 does nothing wrong at any point in this process. She's 1:27:09.160 --> 1:27:11.840 just living her life and this guy is out of 1:27:11.840 --> 1:27:14.080 his out of out of his head and has easy 1:27:14.120 --> 1:27:19.000 access to guns, Um, which is a problem. At PM 1:27:19.040 --> 1:27:23.080 on March nine, one John Hinckley JR opens fire at 1:27:23.120 --> 1:27:26.360 the president's entourage from just a few feet away. Reagan 1:27:26.439 --> 1:27:28.439 had been speaking to a bunch of union guys at 1:27:28.479 --> 1:27:30.800 this this thing at the Hilton Anyway, and they're kind 1:27:30.800 --> 1:27:34.479 of like walking out into towards the Limo when this happens. 1:27:34.960 --> 1:27:38.559 John's first shot hits James Brady, the press secretary and 1:27:38.640 --> 1:27:41.920 former PR man for Philish loafly in his head. Uh. 1:27:42.000 --> 1:27:45.120 He then wounds a police officer and a secret service agent. 1:27:45.439 --> 1:27:48.120 He actually does not hit. Probably does not. I don't 1:27:48.120 --> 1:27:49.800 I think there's still a little bit of debate because 1:27:49.800 --> 1:27:52.719 it's like ballistics are kind of fucky. But he probably 1:27:52.760 --> 1:27:56.559 doesn't directly hit Reagan. Instead around fragments and bounces off 1:27:56.600 --> 1:27:59.640 the armored limousine, penetrating the president's lung. None of the 1:27:59.680 --> 1:28:02.040 ex past of bullets explode because they're not the right 1:28:02.080 --> 1:28:04.599 bullets for the gun. The barrel is too short. Um, 1:28:04.680 --> 1:28:07.519 so it doesn't. It might even do less damage than 1:28:07.560 --> 1:28:10.559 it would have done, although maybe they fragment because they're 1:28:10.600 --> 1:28:13.519 these weird explosive bullets and that's why Reagan gets hurt anyway. 1:28:13.760 --> 1:28:16.760 Hard to say. Nobody really understands ballistic style that well. 1:28:16.800 --> 1:28:19.200 Today there's a lot of debate over how all this 1:28:19.240 --> 1:28:22.439 stuff works. Reagan had been in office for sixty nine 1:28:22.520 --> 1:28:25.080 days and no real plan existed for what to do 1:28:25.160 --> 1:28:27.559 if the president gets shot and is alive but is 1:28:27.640 --> 1:28:30.759 unable to do the job of the president. Um, fucking 1:28:31.160 --> 1:28:33.200 George H W Bush is in the air a bunch 1:28:33.200 --> 1:28:35.800 of this time and like people can't reach him, Um, 1:28:35.880 --> 1:28:37.360 and they're like, but he's they're saying you need to 1:28:37.400 --> 1:28:40.880 come back to Watchington now. Um. So kind of the 1:28:40.920 --> 1:28:44.240 people running the country for a few hours is Al Hague, 1:28:44.240 --> 1:28:46.599 the Secretary of state, and like a room full of 1:28:46.680 --> 1:28:49.879 guys in the cabinet who were all disagreeing about everything 1:28:50.200 --> 1:28:53.160 and none of whom are constitutionally supposed to be running 1:28:53.160 --> 1:28:56.920 the country. Um, it's a real big problem. Like the 1:28:56.960 --> 1:28:59.479 fucking like the the press ask at one point, because hey, 1:28:59.479 --> 1:29:01.960 it goes out there tripul like hey, the president's in surgery, 1:29:01.960 --> 1:29:04.519 and they're like, well, who's? WHO's in charge, like with 1:29:04.560 --> 1:29:06.880 the nukes and stuff? WHO's running the country? And he's like, 1:29:07.000 --> 1:29:08.920 we got a whole room for the guys. Don't worry, 1:29:08.960 --> 1:29:10.840 it's all fine, and they're like, is that what the 1:29:10.920 --> 1:29:13.160 law says, because I don't think that's how it's supposed 1:29:13.200 --> 1:29:17.720 to go. Um, it's it's not great. It's actually a 1:29:17.760 --> 1:29:20.200 real problem. And they do they make a bunch of 1:29:20.280 --> 1:29:22.800 changes after this to make sure that, like, we never 1:29:23.080 --> 1:29:26.200 don't know who the president is when, if this kind 1:29:26.240 --> 1:29:29.240 of thing happens, at least Um. But on a political 1:29:29.320 --> 1:29:33.200 level this is fucking gangbusters. For the Reagan administration, and 1:29:33.240 --> 1:29:35.080 I'M gonna quote from a write up an Elpie here. 1:29:37.040 --> 1:29:40.400 The assassination attempt silenced criticism of his administration at a 1:29:40.439 --> 1:29:43.599 critical point early in his term. Explains H W brand's, 1:29:43.640 --> 1:29:46.559 author of the biography Reagan the life in an email 1:29:46.840 --> 1:29:49.400 the good humor he exhibited during his recovery. He spent 1:29:49.439 --> 1:29:52.360 only twelve days in the hospital, convinced many skeptics, some 1:29:52.439 --> 1:29:54.759 of some of his followers believe that God had forgiven 1:29:54.800 --> 1:29:56.680 him to allow him to finish his work, and it 1:29:56.760 --> 1:30:00.559 is possible that Reagan thought so too. On anniversary of 1:30:00.560 --> 1:30:04.519 the assassination attempt, journalist Del winton Wilbur published raw hide down, 1:30:04.680 --> 1:30:07.800 a thorough investigation full of revelations of what happened that day. 1:30:08.080 --> 1:30:09.880 The book is written in the style of true crime 1:30:09.880 --> 1:30:11.840 and its title as a reference to the Secret Service 1:30:11.880 --> 1:30:14.960 Code name given to Reagan, raw hide. Joe Biden's code 1:30:15.000 --> 1:30:18.439 name is Celtic and Donald Trump's was mogul. It reaches 1:30:18.479 --> 1:30:21.960 two important conclusions. Firstly, it argues that Reagan became the 1:30:22.000 --> 1:30:24.920 first president since Eisenhower to serve two terms because of 1:30:24.960 --> 1:30:27.479 the way he and his team handled the assassination attempt, 1:30:27.760 --> 1:30:30.520 and secondly, the White House did not reveal the seriousness 1:30:30.560 --> 1:30:34.160 of Reagan's injuries. He walks into the hospital and then 1:30:34.240 --> 1:30:38.759 stops breathing and collapses. Um, like. He walks in specifically 1:30:38.760 --> 1:30:41.200 because he wants to be seen walking in, and it's 1:30:41.200 --> 1:30:43.519 like they don't know that he's been shot at first. 1:30:43.560 --> 1:30:46.479 It's not like bleeding a bunch outside, he's bleeding internally. 1:30:46.560 --> 1:30:49.400 So it's this is like legitimately the best case scenario. 1:30:49.760 --> 1:30:51.439 It would have been hard to figure out what had 1:30:51.439 --> 1:30:54.400 happened to him, kind of because you can't immediately tell 1:30:54.439 --> 1:30:56.880 that he's bleeding. A lot of people have been shot, 1:30:56.920 --> 1:30:59.240 and so everyone just kind of assumes he's having a 1:30:59.240 --> 1:31:01.360 heart attack, which is why they take him to the hospital. 1:31:01.640 --> 1:31:03.679 He thinks, actually, I think he believes that his secret 1:31:03.680 --> 1:31:07.640 service agent broke his ribs getting him into the Limo. Um, 1:31:07.680 --> 1:31:09.360 but if they've taken him to the White House first, 1:31:09.360 --> 1:31:11.640 he would have fucking died. He loses half of his 1:31:11.720 --> 1:31:15.320 blood in the surgery, like it's that's which is like 1:31:15.360 --> 1:31:17.439 bad if you lose half your blood. That's not like 1:31:17.439 --> 1:31:21.000 a great injury. Um, just it's his lung collapsing. Is 1:31:21.120 --> 1:31:24.160 that what's happening? Like, yeah, they've got him on oxygen 1:31:24.200 --> 1:31:27.439 and stuff. He's like barely able to joke with the doctors, 1:31:27.439 --> 1:31:29.160 which he does, which is one of the things that 1:31:29.240 --> 1:31:31.919 like goes viral from this and makes him so popular 1:31:31.960 --> 1:31:37.439 because he's he's Yucking it up old Ronnie um his. Yeah, 1:31:37.479 --> 1:31:40.160 this is believed. There's a number of massive long term 1:31:40.200 --> 1:31:42.880 fucking consequences. One of them is that this is why 1:31:43.760 --> 1:31:46.760 Nancy brings in Joan quickly the astrologer like this is 1:31:46.800 --> 1:31:49.120 when she you can refer back to behind the bastards 1:31:49.120 --> 1:31:51.400 two part or on the Reagan astrologer. But this is 1:31:51.439 --> 1:31:55.040 why the Reagan astrologer becomes like they start. They stopped 1:31:55.160 --> 1:31:57.880 having him do events when the astrologer says it's a 1:31:57.880 --> 1:32:00.960 bad day for it and ship because, like Nancy, this 1:32:01.080 --> 1:32:04.000 kind of breaks her and it also kind of breaks Ronald. 1:32:04.040 --> 1:32:06.920 He's not the same man after getting shot, which, to 1:32:06.960 --> 1:32:10.160 be fair, he is seventy when this happens. So getting 1:32:10.200 --> 1:32:12.519 shot in the lung at seventy, most people are gonna 1:32:12.560 --> 1:32:15.000 come back all the way. This is also probably doesn't 1:32:15.000 --> 1:32:17.920 help the Alzheimer's May accelerate the timetable there. But on 1:32:18.000 --> 1:32:21.440 a political level this goes fucking great for the Republicans 1:32:21.520 --> 1:32:23.639 and it allows them to do a lot of really 1:32:23.680 --> 1:32:27.799 fucked up ship, and I'M gonna quote from CNN here. Today, 1:32:27.880 --> 1:32:30.559 Reagan is the only modern president who receives high marks 1:32:30.600 --> 1:32:33.800 from Republicans, Democrats and independence alike. A look at the 1:32:33.840 --> 1:32:36.840 polls can quantify the roots of this enduring goodwill. Despite 1:32:37.280 --> 1:32:39.800 an electoral landslide over Jimmy Carter with a forty four 1:32:39.840 --> 1:32:42.840 state win in nineteen eighty, Reagan won a narrow popular margin, 1:32:42.880 --> 1:32:46.679 a fifty point seven percent. Moreover, gallops valuable presidential poll 1:32:46.720 --> 1:32:50.040 tracker shows that Reagan's approvable ratings were significantly split along 1:32:50.040 --> 1:32:53.400 partisan lines after his nineteen eighty one inauguration, with seventy 1:32:53.400 --> 1:32:56.880 four percent Republican support and fifty three percent from independence, 1:32:56.920 --> 1:32:59.800 but thirty eight percent from Democrats. When Reagan came back 1:32:59.840 --> 1:33:03.120 to capital in April to push for his economic recovery act, 1:33:03.280 --> 1:33:05.479 he was greeted by a hero's welcome in a three 1:33:05.520 --> 1:33:08.960 minute standing ovation. He leveraged his political capital to help 1:33:08.960 --> 1:33:11.559 publish pass his agenda. Before the end of the summer, 1:33:11.600 --> 1:33:14.040 the Reagan tax cuts had passed the House of Representatives, 1:33:14.160 --> 1:33:17.920 led by Democratic speaker tip O'Neil, and the Republican controlled Senate. 1:33:18.040 --> 1:33:21.959 Reducing the top tax rates from a confiscatory and unleashing 1:33:21.960 --> 1:33:29.320 an entrepreneurial era. That's how CNN categorizes that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Um, 1:33:29.439 --> 1:33:35.240 and in Reagan wins forty nine states and the popular vote. 1:33:35.240 --> 1:33:38.400 It is very clear kind of how this happens and 1:33:38.479 --> 1:33:42.000 what this allows Reagan to do. It's fascinating because you 1:33:42.040 --> 1:33:44.680 have in Britain, like, less than a year later, right, 1:33:45.479 --> 1:33:49.360 we have Margaret Thatcher right like, who is similarly not 1:33:49.439 --> 1:33:52.880 doing very well, until she gets to go to war 1:33:53.000 --> 1:33:55.080 for two tiny little cold islands in the Atlantic and 1:33:55.120 --> 1:33:58.080 no one knew about before, and then they proceed to 1:33:58.160 --> 1:34:02.360 just ravage like the like post World War Two social 1:34:02.400 --> 1:34:05.800 democracy consense. Just suck it up and fucking here we are. 1:34:05.960 --> 1:34:09.640 Now here we are two and people are going I 1:34:09.720 --> 1:34:12.800 have called in Britain this winter. I will say in 1:34:12.920 --> 1:34:15.160 terms of just to be fair, one of the things 1:34:15.240 --> 1:34:17.639 people will say is a positive from this, is that 1:34:18.080 --> 1:34:20.240 this is one of the things that helps push the 1:34:20.400 --> 1:34:23.920 arms treaty deals with the Soviet Union, because Reagan is 1:34:23.960 --> 1:34:27.080 like God saved me for a reason, and maybe it's 1:34:27.120 --> 1:34:29.960 to make nuclear war less likely. That's a bigger topic 1:34:30.000 --> 1:34:32.040 than today. It's a thing that he will claim and 1:34:32.439 --> 1:34:36.000 generally speaking, the fact that the Soviet Union and Reagan 1:34:36.320 --> 1:34:38.720 started talking about nukes during this period is not a 1:34:38.760 --> 1:34:44.360 bad thing. Um. Always good to be talking about nukes, Um. 1:34:44.400 --> 1:34:47.680 But yeah, what I will say, if we're looking at 1:34:47.760 --> 1:34:49.760 kind of the only clearly good thing that came out 1:34:49.760 --> 1:34:52.679 of the shooting, it's the fact that the justice system 1:34:52.800 --> 1:34:56.559 actually worked in this one instance pretty much exactly how 1:34:56.600 --> 1:34:59.759 you would want it to. Hinckley was clearly not mentally 1:34:59.760 --> 1:35:02.360 comm potent to understand his actions, what he had done 1:35:02.479 --> 1:35:05.280 or to stand trial, and he was declared not guilty 1:35:05.320 --> 1:35:09.639 by reason of insanity. His father, tearful took blame for 1:35:09.680 --> 1:35:12.720 the shooting for cutting his son off from resources. The 1:35:12.760 --> 1:35:16.240 psychiatrist who had botched his diagnosis admitted his mistakes on 1:35:16.280 --> 1:35:18.920 the stand and expressed regret. Hinckley was sent to a 1:35:18.920 --> 1:35:22.040 psychiatric facility where he received decades of treatment, and the 1:35:22.080 --> 1:35:25.240 treatment seems to have really helped him. On December seventeen, 1:35:25.360 --> 1:35:27.760 two thousand three, a federal judge ruled that Hinckley was 1:35:27.880 --> 1:35:31.040 entitled to unsupervised visits with his parents. This is five 1:35:31.120 --> 1:35:34.240 years before his dad died, so they get time together again. 1:35:34.720 --> 1:35:37.680 In two thousand seven he has a request for unsupervised 1:35:37.760 --> 1:35:40.360 visits as long as one month. This is denied, not 1:35:40.400 --> 1:35:42.719 because of any problems but because of issues the hospital 1:35:42.760 --> 1:35:45.880 had not taken to prepare for the transition. In July 1:35:45.920 --> 1:35:48.479 of two thousand and sixteen, Judge Paul Friedman concluded that 1:35:48.560 --> 1:35:50.920 Hinckley did not pose a threat to himself or others 1:35:50.960 --> 1:35:55.000 and ordered him released. Um the conditions initially limited him 1:35:55.040 --> 1:35:57.120 to his residence, residence where he lived with his mother 1:35:57.360 --> 1:36:00.519 in parts of southern California. He was obviously bidden from 1:36:00.560 --> 1:36:03.920 contact with pastor president, presidents of the United States or 1:36:03.960 --> 1:36:06.760 any of their family members or graves from banning. He 1:36:06.800 --> 1:36:09.520 was banned from contact with Jodie foster or other entertainers. 1:36:09.880 --> 1:36:13.200 He was prohibited from watching violent movies, television or online media. 1:36:13.760 --> 1:36:16.720 In two thousand eighteen, a restriction confining him to his 1:36:16.800 --> 1:36:19.720 mother's house ended. He can now live anywhere he wants, 1:36:19.800 --> 1:36:24.639 with doctor's approval. Uh and on September one John Hinckley 1:36:24.720 --> 1:36:28.519 Jr age sixty six, was approved for unconditional release by 1:36:28.600 --> 1:36:32.360 district judge Paul Friedman. Friedman noted that, quote, very few 1:36:32.400 --> 1:36:35.200 patients at St Elizabeth's Hospital have been studied more thoroughly 1:36:35.240 --> 1:36:38.680 than John Hinkley and again that's pretty much how it 1:36:38.720 --> 1:36:41.840 auto work right, like, yeah, he shoots the president, but 1:36:42.040 --> 1:36:46.679 clearly because he's sick and you don't just punish sick 1:36:46.720 --> 1:36:48.880 people when they don't know what they've done. So he 1:36:48.920 --> 1:36:53.840 gets treated for decades until he's better and now he's able. Yes, 1:36:54.120 --> 1:36:57.920 it's really good. Quite surprising. It is very surprising, and 1:36:57.960 --> 1:37:00.360 part of why it's surprising is that one of the 1:37:00.400 --> 1:37:04.479 other negative lingering effects of John Hinckley attempting to shoot 1:37:04.479 --> 1:37:06.920 the president is that a lot of changes are made 1:37:06.920 --> 1:37:08.840 in many states to make it much less likely that 1:37:08.880 --> 1:37:11.960 people benefit from the same understanding judicial system that John 1:37:12.000 --> 1:37:15.479 Hinckley Jr does. Okay, I'm gonna quote now from a 1:37:15.520 --> 1:37:17.640 write up from famous trials DOT COM, which has a 1:37:17.640 --> 1:37:21.280 pretty good, pretty good bit on just kind of everything 1:37:21.280 --> 1:37:23.320 that happened here. It's a fair, pretty fair summary. I 1:37:23.360 --> 1:37:25.800 think within a month of the Hinckley verdict the House 1:37:25.800 --> 1:37:28.519 and Senate we're holding hearings on the insanity defense. A 1:37:28.520 --> 1:37:31.400 measure proposed by Senator Arlen Specter shifted the burden of 1:37:31.400 --> 1:37:34.400 proof of insanity to the defense. President Reagan expressed his 1:37:34.439 --> 1:37:36.360 support for the measure with the comment if you start 1:37:36.400 --> 1:37:38.439 thinking about even a lot of your friends, you would 1:37:38.439 --> 1:37:40.439 have to say, Gee, if I had to prove they 1:37:40.439 --> 1:37:46.240 were saying, I would have a hard job. Right. Tell 1:37:46.400 --> 1:37:48.439 us more about you that, which maybe that says a 1:37:48.439 --> 1:37:51.639 lot about your administration, who are, by the way, at 1:37:51.680 --> 1:37:56.040 this point, deep in like Iran, Contra, Shit, selling cocaine 1:37:56.080 --> 1:37:57.840 and in anyway. We were talking about all of this 1:37:57.920 --> 1:38:00.439 on an upcoming episode of bastards. But like, yeah, they're 1:38:00.439 --> 1:38:04.400 all monsters, joining con Congress and shifting the burden to proof. 1:38:04.400 --> 1:38:06.360 We're a number of states. Within three years after the 1:38:06.400 --> 1:38:09.000 Hinckley verdict, two thirds of the states placed the burden 1:38:09.080 --> 1:38:12.080 on the defense to prove insanity, while eight states adopted 1:38:12.080 --> 1:38:15.519 a separate verdict of guilty but mentally ill. In one state, Utah, 1:38:15.560 --> 1:38:22.519 abolished the defense altogether, always delivering. So the system works 1:38:22.600 --> 1:38:29.559 really well for John Hinckley Jr um ethically, I think 1:38:29.640 --> 1:38:32.880 the Justice Department of the United States this is maybe 1:38:32.960 --> 1:38:35.160 one of it. Probably in history you will not find 1:38:35.200 --> 1:38:38.360 many cases of a guy shooting an active world leader 1:38:38.680 --> 1:38:42.679 and being treated ethically by the justice system like he's 1:38:42.760 --> 1:38:48.000 handled very reasonably, I think, and never again, never and 1:38:48.000 --> 1:38:50.120 again will that happen for anybody, even if they don't 1:38:50.120 --> 1:38:55.439 shoot the president. So, Um, obviously I wish John Hinckley 1:38:55.560 --> 1:39:01.000 jr well. I I hope his musical career goes fine. Um, 1:39:01.160 --> 1:39:07.280 I fuck Ronald Reagan, Um hate him and UH yeah, 1:39:07.320 --> 1:39:10.000 it's probably made the world a lot worse that John 1:39:10.040 --> 1:39:13.639 Hinckley Jr tried to shoot Ronald Reagan, because it empowered 1:39:13.720 --> 1:39:15.960 Ronald Reagan. One of the lessons here, if we're talking 1:39:16.000 --> 1:39:20.000 about assassinations, is that, um, it's a real wild card 1:39:20.520 --> 1:39:24.160 trying to assassinate a president or any other politician. And 1:39:24.200 --> 1:39:26.880 as a general rule, people are kind of programmed to 1:39:26.920 --> 1:39:30.000 think that somebody's cool if they get shot and don't die, 1:39:30.520 --> 1:39:32.519 like it's one of the cooler things that like look 1:39:32.560 --> 1:39:35.160 it just objectively. It's what do you do if you 1:39:35.160 --> 1:39:37.000 want to show John Mcclain as hard as hell, you 1:39:37.000 --> 1:39:38.559 even get like hit in the arm or something and 1:39:38.640 --> 1:39:41.479 just like work through it, right, like what do people? 1:39:41.560 --> 1:39:43.639 People talk about like Teddy Roosevelt when he was shot 1:39:43.640 --> 1:39:45.200 and how bad it was that he gave it bad 1:39:45.200 --> 1:39:46.960 assid was that he gave a speech, or how cool 1:39:47.000 --> 1:39:49.599 it is that fucking Andrew Jackson, who they don't say 1:39:49.600 --> 1:39:54.320 any of these things. About is JFK that's right, is 1:39:54.360 --> 1:39:59.880 not cool. Not Cool, not over the roof of a church. Yeah, 1:40:00.560 --> 1:40:05.120 lame as hell, Um, but, like you know, this is 1:40:05.160 --> 1:40:07.800 the look. If, if you want John F Kennedy to 1:40:07.840 --> 1:40:10.800 stop being the president and you can successfully kill him, 1:40:10.920 --> 1:40:13.920 you will get what you want. He's no longer the president. Um, 1:40:13.960 --> 1:40:17.280 if you were to have a political motivation, and again, 1:40:17.479 --> 1:40:21.720 Hinkley doesn't Hinkley, it's not thinking about the top marginal 1:40:21.840 --> 1:40:25.960 tax rate when he does this. Um. But if you 1:40:26.280 --> 1:40:28.879 if that had been his goal, this is the opposite 1:40:28.920 --> 1:40:31.320 of that, right, because it just makes Reagan look cool 1:40:31.520 --> 1:40:34.320 and helps him, makes everybody feel like an asshole for 1:40:34.400 --> 1:40:36.360 fighting him for a while. So, like he gets a 1:40:36.360 --> 1:40:40.200 bunch of ship through and also a bunch of laws, 1:40:40.240 --> 1:40:45.000 get worse for mentally ill people and, on the whole, bad, bad, 1:40:45.120 --> 1:40:50.679 bad assassination. Zero, zero. Yeah, I have to say, based 1:40:50.760 --> 1:40:54.040 on based on the evidence we have here, shooting Ronald 1:40:54.040 --> 1:40:57.200 Reagan not a good idea. They didn't do it. Now 1:40:58.040 --> 1:40:59.880 let the whole team down and we should just plug 1:40:59.920 --> 1:41:01.960 his album. It's out on us. Best. We should plug 1:41:02.000 --> 1:41:05.280 his out because, again, he's not responsible for this. Yeah, 1:41:05.439 --> 1:41:07.599 you know, I think he's if he's happy singing songs, 1:41:07.640 --> 1:41:10.680 I'm happy for him. Yes, yes, I wish you the 1:41:10.720 --> 1:41:13.439 best of luck, John. You can buy his t shirts. 1:41:13.439 --> 1:41:16.240 He's got t shirts that he's trying to move, which 1:41:16.479 --> 1:41:18.320 I don't know. I don't think it's bad to encourage 1:41:18.320 --> 1:41:20.960 his music career, like seriously, like we're all doing it 1:41:21.000 --> 1:41:22.800 with a little bit of a smile. But what's the 1:41:22.800 --> 1:41:25.559 harm if John Hickley Jr thinks that people like his music, 1:41:25.600 --> 1:41:28.680 that doesn't hurt anybody. And maybe if people can see that, 1:41:28.800 --> 1:41:31.960 like if you treat people with mental illnesses like people 1:41:32.000 --> 1:41:35.519 who are ill, not fucking terrible people, then they can 1:41:35.600 --> 1:41:38.439 get to a place where they can sing songs on Youtube. 1:41:38.479 --> 1:41:42.080 And yes, that's good. That's an example again of the 1:41:42.120 --> 1:41:44.400 only time it worked the way it's it's should, but 1:41:44.479 --> 1:41:47.559 it didn't work out pretty well in this case. Um, 1:41:48.240 --> 1:41:54.240 so I don't know. Yeah, take whatever lessons you want 1:41:54.240 --> 1:41:58.800 to out of this. Many, many possible things can be 1:41:58.800 --> 1:42:01.320 a lot enough, a lot of different lessons we can 1:42:01.360 --> 1:42:04.840 take out of this. Don't Hire Al Hague, but I 1:42:04.880 --> 1:42:09.639 feel like that's that's a generally good lesson. Yeah, there's 1:42:09.640 --> 1:42:12.680 a Phoenix Punch Bang called Jody Foster's army. I've just 1:42:12.720 --> 1:42:16.599 read as well, who makes songs about him. Great by 1:42:16.600 --> 1:42:21.439 their records too. Fine. Yes, no strong opinions on that 1:42:21.520 --> 1:42:24.080 either way. Anyone else got anything to say about John 1:42:24.160 --> 1:42:31.400 Hinckley JR or the assassination attempt on Ronnie Raw Hide Reagan? Also, 1:42:31.479 --> 1:42:33.320 we're talking about the I R a a lot this week. 1:42:33.439 --> 1:42:36.120 Probably not for nothing that Joe Biden's code name is 1:42:36.200 --> 1:42:43.280 Celtic M M and the Queen Dies now makes you 1:42:43.360 --> 1:42:47.839 think you're telling me it's a coincidence. I still suspects trust. Personally. 1:42:48.600 --> 1:42:51.360 I think that maybe Joe Biden shook hands with Liz 1:42:51.400 --> 1:42:56.559 trust and like like, transferred a nerve poison onto her 1:42:56.560 --> 1:43:01.400 hand and then she touched the queen. Definitely possible. Sipping 1:43:01.439 --> 1:43:03.679 again us on the plane back. No one that he's 1:43:03.720 --> 1:43:09.600 done his job in his Batta clava and spectably post one. Anyway. 1:43:10.240 --> 1:43:14.080 Hopefully nobody who has stuff going on listens to that 1:43:14.160 --> 1:43:17.080 and takes the wrong message out of it. Yeah, he 1:43:17.840 --> 1:43:33.120 kind to one another anyway. We're done. Prime Minister Abe 1:43:33.360 --> 1:43:36.559 was a champion of democracy and a firm believer that 1:43:36.600 --> 1:43:41.400 no economy, society or country can achieve its full potential 1:43:41.439 --> 1:43:45.400 if women are left behind. I am shocked and devastated 1:43:45.439 --> 1:43:49.400 by his assassination. A loss for Japan and our world. 1:43:50.240 --> 1:43:59.679 J K. This is assassination week. WHO's assassinating my ex 1:44:00.160 --> 1:44:04.639 x former prime minister of Japan? It's it's assassination week. 1:44:04.760 --> 1:44:08.519 It is, it is. I I would kind of, I 1:44:08.560 --> 1:44:12.080 would somewhat ving gloriously argue the capstone of assassination week. 1:44:12.200 --> 1:44:15.439 It is the episode about the assassination that started it 1:44:15.479 --> 1:44:18.120 at all Um, and by by that I mean we are, 1:44:18.160 --> 1:44:21.559 we are, we're here talking about the assassination of one 1:44:21.640 --> 1:44:25.519 Shinzo Abe Um. This is this is going to be 1:44:25.560 --> 1:44:29.960 a slightly different episode, both to the rusty assassination week 1:44:30.000 --> 1:44:32.519 episodes and to the other episode we did on the 1:44:32.520 --> 1:44:40.439 assassinations of Abbe Um, partly because, basically the day after, 1:44:40.880 --> 1:44:44.479 within within about two days of the our episode, original 1:44:44.520 --> 1:44:49.440 episode about the Abbe assassination dropping, Um, there was confirmation 1:44:49.800 --> 1:44:52.479 that the reason abbe was killed was because of his 1:44:52.520 --> 1:44:56.160 connection to an organization called the Unification Church, which is, 1:44:56.240 --> 1:44:59.120 I think, better loloquially known as the Mooneyes Um. People 1:45:00.120 --> 1:45:02.880 might have listened to the very, very long episode I 1:45:02.960 --> 1:45:07.920 did about it. But yeah, there is, there is an 1:45:08.000 --> 1:45:14.120 enormous amount going on there, and this is something that fortunately, 1:45:14.160 --> 1:45:18.160 we have experts for. And Yeah, so, so joining us 1:45:18.200 --> 1:45:24.439 to talk about this assassination and the moonies and sort of, 1:45:24.560 --> 1:45:26.639 I don't know, the sort of weirdness and the horror 1:45:26.720 --> 1:45:31.000 around everything that's been happening around this assassination is anti 1:45:31.000 --> 1:45:36.479 fascist researcher Elisam as you yeah, Alisa's a anti fascist 1:45:36.560 --> 1:45:41.160 researcher specializing in cults, WHO's working with deprogramming imperialism, which 1:45:41.200 --> 1:45:43.360 is a collective of ex moonies who've been documenting just 1:45:43.439 --> 1:45:46.519 sort of all of the ship the moonies have been 1:45:46.560 --> 1:45:49.760 getting up to and trying to get more awareness of 1:45:50.479 --> 1:45:56.559 really just incredible array of awful stuff that they've been doing. Yeah, so, alsa, 1:45:56.800 --> 1:45:59.560 welcome to the show. Hi, thanks for having me. I 1:45:59.640 --> 1:46:01.519 really apreciate it. Yeah, and thank you. Thank you so 1:46:01.600 --> 1:46:03.479 much for joining us for this. I don't know why 1:46:03.479 --> 1:46:05.599 I'm saying us, as if if there's someone other than 1:46:05.840 --> 1:46:08.679 of this episode and You, but you know, old old 1:46:08.680 --> 1:46:10.760 habits die hard, I guess. I guess I've inherited the 1:46:10.840 --> 1:46:13.880 royal we which is not great. Oh well, so someone 1:46:13.920 --> 1:46:19.120 will have to assassinate me soon. That's fine. Sometimes it happens. 1:46:19.160 --> 1:46:22.920 I hope it doesn't happen to you, though. That would 1:46:22.920 --> 1:46:30.639 not be the best assassination target, honestly. Yeah, so, okay, 1:46:30.680 --> 1:46:34.479 I guess the place I think we should start is 1:46:34.560 --> 1:46:39.680 talking about what we've found out about this assassin in 1:46:39.760 --> 1:46:42.799 the last sort of a few months since this happened, 1:46:42.920 --> 1:46:47.280 which is that when when the initial police reports came out, 1:46:47.920 --> 1:46:52.559 there was a bunch of very, very murky stuff about basically, 1:46:52.600 --> 1:46:54.559 the police were like this wasn't a political killing, it 1:46:54.640 --> 1:46:58.479 was about some organization, and I think me and you 1:46:58.640 --> 1:47:01.200 and every single other person was like even testentially where 1:47:01.200 --> 1:47:04.360 of Japanese politics. saw them say like an organization and 1:47:04.520 --> 1:47:06.080 was like, oh no, there's like a one in three 1:47:06.160 --> 1:47:09.360 chances of the Boodhi's. Yeah, that's yeah. I saw like 1:47:09.600 --> 1:47:12.200 when they said something about like organization or religious organization. 1:47:12.280 --> 1:47:22.240 I was like yeah, it was like that probably is. Yeah, yeah, 1:47:22.360 --> 1:47:25.479 and it turns out that okay. So the assassin is 1:47:25.520 --> 1:47:32.840 a man named Tetsuya Yamagami, who was a navy veteran. Um. Yeah, 1:47:33.120 --> 1:47:37.559 made a a series of unbelievably based and incredibly wild 1:47:37.640 --> 1:47:41.400 firearms with which she assassinated the form per minister of Japan. 1:47:41.560 --> 1:47:44.320 What we've learned since then is that the reason he 1:47:44.400 --> 1:47:49.320 did this was that his basically, like his family and 1:47:49.439 --> 1:47:54.120 his life were completely destroyed by his mom falling into 1:47:54.160 --> 1:47:59.080 this colts and by her I mean she, she, she, 1:47:59.080 --> 1:48:02.080 she gave this Holt set like something like seven hundred 1:48:02.120 --> 1:48:07.920 thousand dollars. Yeah, like roughly seven U S dollars. Yeah, 1:48:08.120 --> 1:48:11.880 like literal, like like multiple fortunes, like she, she, she 1:48:11.960 --> 1:48:14.120 gave them all of her money and then she sold 1:48:14.200 --> 1:48:18.160 the company that like she had been running to give 1:48:18.200 --> 1:48:23.639 them more money. And Yeah, what? What? What, basically, as 1:48:23.680 --> 1:48:26.400 best we can tell, has happened was that he was 1:48:26.479 --> 1:48:30.040 he was looking at a way to like get back 1:48:30.080 --> 1:48:34.559 at the boonies Um. And basically the problem was he okay, 1:48:34.600 --> 1:48:36.559 so if he didn't want to kill civilians, which I 1:48:36.560 --> 1:48:38.639 think is admirable, and he couldn't figure out a way 1:48:38.760 --> 1:48:42.000 to like get at any of the like individual church leaders, 1:48:42.880 --> 1:48:45.880 and so he's the thing he decided to do was 1:48:45.920 --> 1:48:48.240 go after sins Abe because, as we're gonna get to 1:48:48.400 --> 1:48:52.439 in a in a bit, Enzo Abbey lots of connections 1:48:52.439 --> 1:48:55.559 with the Unification Church, a thing that all of the 1:48:55.560 --> 1:48:59.760 people like writing glowing obituaries about him just like in 1:49:00.080 --> 1:49:03.960 edibly don't want to mention. Yeah, it's been left out 1:49:03.960 --> 1:49:09.280 of a lot of ship yeah, and okay, so I 1:49:09.320 --> 1:49:16.200 guess to back up a little bit, Um, can for 1:49:16.360 --> 1:49:18.360 for for people who sort of don't know what this is, 1:49:18.520 --> 1:49:21.559 or for people who like, may have heard of Aberty, 1:49:21.600 --> 1:49:26.120 to refresher, can you talk a bit about what? What? What? 1:49:26.120 --> 1:49:30.240 What the Unification Church actually is? And Yeah, we can. 1:49:30.240 --> 1:49:33.320 We can sort of go from there. Yeah, definitely. Okay. 1:49:33.360 --> 1:49:36.040 So the Unification Church, or the Moonys, uh, they are 1:49:36.280 --> 1:49:40.280 a quote unquote, new religious movement or pretty much a 1:49:40.360 --> 1:49:44.400 cult you know, they're very culty and they're a cult Um, 1:49:44.479 --> 1:49:47.880 and they were started by some young moon who was 1:49:47.960 --> 1:49:53.120 originally from what is now North Korea. Uh. And so basically, 1:49:53.200 --> 1:49:57.720 this guy, he claims he's the Messiah, has this originally 1:49:57.800 --> 1:50:00.920 it started out as like a sex cult Um, under 1:50:01.200 --> 1:50:05.599 a practice called, I think, Picarum, which is basically, uh, 1:50:06.120 --> 1:50:11.440 he was supposed to h quote unquote, clans a woman's 1:50:11.640 --> 1:50:14.840 like relationship to God by having sex with her. So 1:50:14.920 --> 1:50:20.160 he assaulted a number of people doing this stuff. Um, 1:50:20.320 --> 1:50:22.400 and the church over the years has sort of like 1:50:22.479 --> 1:50:31.240 developed into more of a multinational corporation. Uh, and political movement. Uh. 1:50:31.320 --> 1:50:33.439 And it has a lot of tools, I mean a 1:50:33.439 --> 1:50:37.280 lot of ties and connections to various governments around the world, 1:50:37.320 --> 1:50:40.600 including Japan. Um. And it's basically, at the end of 1:50:40.600 --> 1:50:43.360 the day, a tool of United States imperialism. Um, there's 1:50:43.360 --> 1:50:50.040 some pretty pretty direct ties to like the Korean CIA, yeah, 1:50:50.200 --> 1:50:53.840 as well as the U S C I. A. Um. So, yeah, 1:50:53.960 --> 1:50:57.960 it's like this big umbrella of like groups, different NGOs, 1:50:58.080 --> 1:51:03.240 different like businesses, a bunch. It's just a whole conglomeration 1:51:03.280 --> 1:51:08.960 of things, right, Um, but very, extremely virulently anti Communist. Uh. And, 1:51:09.920 --> 1:51:13.800 you know, involved in some of some of the greatest 1:51:13.880 --> 1:51:21.800 hits of the last century, like Iran, Contra. Yeah, for us. 1:51:22.400 --> 1:51:24.120 And when? When? When? When? We say involved in a 1:51:24.200 --> 1:51:26.360 rand contract? Like, okay, there's lots of people who are like, 1:51:26.400 --> 1:51:29.360 sort of involved in a rand contract. The movies. Like there. 1:51:29.400 --> 1:51:31.400 There is a decent there you can do. You can 1:51:31.439 --> 1:51:34.320 make the argument that if the movie's had not been 1:51:34.479 --> 1:51:37.040 doing what they were doing in Nicaragua, around Contra, wouldn't 1:51:37.040 --> 1:51:38.960 have been able to happen because the civil war would 1:51:38.960 --> 1:51:42.519 have ended like they like. When? When? When I say like? 1:51:42.520 --> 1:51:44.400 When we say like, like they were involved in the 1:51:44.479 --> 1:51:47.000 rand contract. Like they are like on the ground giving 1:51:47.000 --> 1:51:49.880 people guns and money and keeping like literally literally keeping 1:51:49.920 --> 1:51:52.639 guerrilla organizations and like terrorist groups like in the war, 1:51:53.040 --> 1:51:55.120 who wouldn't have been able to otherwise. Yeah, and then, 1:51:55.120 --> 1:51:56.920 and then also, and that's that's the thing, like they 1:51:56.920 --> 1:51:59.680 did to around contrast, right, because they did. They did 1:51:59.680 --> 1:52:01.559 the second around contract with like with you know, when 1:52:01.600 --> 1:52:04.040 the CIA actually got money, but they were also doing 1:52:04.080 --> 1:52:06.640 the same thing like before that, when they in the 1:52:06.680 --> 1:52:08.679 sort of stop gap period with the CIA, wasn't able 1:52:08.720 --> 1:52:12.320 to fund the contrast. So, yeah, these guys are route 1:52:12.360 --> 1:52:18.280 for that money. And Yeah, so it's yeah, they're very, 1:52:18.400 --> 1:52:21.400 very heavily involved. Like basically anywhere there was an anti 1:52:21.400 --> 1:52:24.600 communists squad like in the world, you can find the 1:52:24.600 --> 1:52:29.559 bodies funding in although, okay, I wasn't, weirdly, the only one. 1:52:29.600 --> 1:52:31.719 I the only one I haven't directly been able to find. 1:52:31.880 --> 1:52:35.679 Is I haven't been able to directly find any evidence 1:52:35.680 --> 1:52:39.160 that they were like that. Like specifically they were helping Pinot, 1:52:39.240 --> 1:52:44.720 like helping PJ. Okay, they were involved in Operation Condor 1:52:45.120 --> 1:52:47.120 and they were like doing ship with that. I haven't 1:52:47.120 --> 1:52:50.240 found evidence they like directly had any conversations with Pinochet, 1:52:50.280 --> 1:52:52.160 but that's like he's like the the only person you 1:52:52.160 --> 1:52:54.760 can say that about. And they probably did at some point, 1:52:54.840 --> 1:52:56.680 like but, you know, like a frail straws. Yeah, like 1:52:56.720 --> 1:52:58.280 they probably did. Like, I mean again, like they were, 1:52:58.120 --> 1:53:00.680 they were there with a frail strawsner. They were they with, Um, 1:53:00.720 --> 1:53:04.479 what was that guy's name? UH, Claus Barbie, the cocaine 1:53:04.560 --> 1:53:06.840 K yeah, yeah, I can't, I can't. I can't remember that, 1:53:07.160 --> 1:53:09.160 the name of the guy. Yeah, there was. There was 1:53:09.200 --> 1:53:10.560 a guy, and believe you, who got installed for like 1:53:10.600 --> 1:53:14.640 a year, that he got couped right now. Um, yeah, no, 1:53:14.720 --> 1:53:16.800 I I know who you're talking about, but I'm also 1:53:16.840 --> 1:53:19.920 forgetting his name at the moment. It's funny because he's 1:53:20.000 --> 1:53:22.680 he's one of these guys where it's like, you know, 1:53:22.800 --> 1:53:25.479 I had a professor, I took I took a Syrian 1:53:25.520 --> 1:53:29.800 history class in college, right and Um, there I think 1:53:29.840 --> 1:53:31.840 it's I really should, if I was saying that, I 1:53:31.880 --> 1:53:34.320 really should know the year. But there there's a year 1:53:34.479 --> 1:53:37.400 in like the fifties in Syria where there's like four 1:53:37.479 --> 1:53:40.559 cups in one year and there were like two guys 1:53:40.680 --> 1:53:43.240 who were, technically speaking, like had controller. serially. He was 1:53:43.240 --> 1:53:44.519 like I'm just not even telling you these guys names 1:53:44.520 --> 1:53:47.080 because they get overthrown him like two months and like 1:53:47.120 --> 1:53:52.160 that's that's that's this guy. Yeah, yeah, but, yeah, this 1:53:52.240 --> 1:53:57.160 is a very sort of very serious and deeply scary 1:53:57.360 --> 1:54:03.720 like death squad funding machine. Yeah, and that, you know, 1:54:03.760 --> 1:54:12.519 has continued to today pretty much. So, yeah, and okay, 1:54:13.160 --> 1:54:15.680 I think like yeah, so, yeah, there's sort of the 1:54:15.720 --> 1:54:17.560 desk quard side of it. Um, the other thing I 1:54:17.600 --> 1:54:22.360 wanted to ask you about is about like what it's 1:54:22.439 --> 1:54:25.160 like being in the church and what it's like sort 1:54:25.200 --> 1:54:30.360 of I don't know, because I think, I think a 1:54:30.360 --> 1:54:34.000 big part of of what's happening with this story is 1:54:34.160 --> 1:54:40.160 tattoo a Yamagami like basically watching his family get sucked 1:54:40.200 --> 1:54:43.440 in and not being able to do anything about it. 1:54:43.480 --> 1:54:45.120 And I was wondering if you could talk a bit 1:54:45.160 --> 1:54:48.440 about yeah, I mean sort of like what, what? What? What? 1:54:48.440 --> 1:54:50.720 What it's like being in the church and then what 1:54:50.840 --> 1:54:58.720 it's like just sort of watching it destroy people. Yeah, so, Um, 1:54:58.760 --> 1:55:01.120 I was born and raised in the church. I left 1:55:01.120 --> 1:55:04.920 when I was around seventeen. It was not it was 1:55:04.960 --> 1:55:09.240 not nice. Um, pretty much everybody I talked to who 1:55:09.360 --> 1:55:14.480 is also left feels the burden of this like perfect 1:55:14.480 --> 1:55:19.400 abuse that we had to endure. Um, it was a 1:55:19.400 --> 1:55:26.080 bleak time for me. Uh, you know, there's just so 1:55:26.160 --> 1:55:30.560 much pressure put on members to follow leadership, to do 1:55:31.440 --> 1:55:35.560 out outrageous amounts of fundraising. They have a bunch of 1:55:35.560 --> 1:55:38.600 these fundraising teams, right, and they'll they'll go out and 1:55:38.640 --> 1:55:42.400 they'll sell things and live in a van, occasionally stopping 1:55:42.440 --> 1:55:47.840 at like different church centers. Um Too like, uh, you know, 1:55:47.960 --> 1:55:51.560 sleep for the night or whatever. They don't eat well, UH, 1:55:51.680 --> 1:55:54.320 they don't get enough sleep, you know, like you're constantly 1:55:54.320 --> 1:55:59.400 around other people, basically like all all of the methods 1:55:59.400 --> 1:56:03.680 of cycleogical torture you can do on a person, right, Um, 1:56:03.760 --> 1:56:07.360 which was, you know, pretty standard throughout the whole movement. Um, 1:56:07.560 --> 1:56:09.000 I was lucky enough not to go on any of 1:56:09.000 --> 1:56:13.240 these fundraising teams because I left before Um, that could happen. 1:56:14.280 --> 1:56:18.520 But Um, I still, you know, definitely feel like the psychological, 1:56:19.280 --> 1:56:21.600 you know, fallout from that and it's something I'll be 1:56:21.600 --> 1:56:26.600 healing with, healing from for the rest of my life. Um. Yeah, so, 1:56:26.680 --> 1:56:29.720 like there's there's like no accountability for leadership. They can 1:56:29.720 --> 1:56:32.040 do whatever they want, but everybody else in the church 1:56:32.080 --> 1:56:37.680 you know, uh, has to follow what moon and the 1:56:37.760 --> 1:56:42.520 regional or national leadership says, or the the thirty six 1:56:42.560 --> 1:56:46.560 blessed couples who are like some of men's original followers. Uh. 1:56:46.920 --> 1:56:50.120 There's it's like extremely hierarchical. UH, there's a lot of 1:56:50.240 --> 1:56:54.120 racism within the group, a huge amount of sexism that 1:56:54.280 --> 1:56:57.920 is like, you know, directly tied into their Um, their 1:56:57.960 --> 1:57:02.640 belief system, because the fall of man, according to the Moonies, 1:57:02.720 --> 1:57:06.040 was eve having sex with Satan and then having sex 1:57:06.120 --> 1:57:11.680 with Um Adam and spreading that thin. Um. So just 1:57:11.760 --> 1:57:17.160 like very inherently misogynistic, extremely homophobic and transphobic movement just 1:57:17.240 --> 1:57:19.840 all around, like so much sexual repression, like you're not 1:57:19.840 --> 1:57:23.360 supposed to hold hands, kiss, do anything before marriage, right, 1:57:23.680 --> 1:57:26.640 and then it's only that person. Well, of course moon, 1:57:26.760 --> 1:57:29.280 you know, didn't didn't like this. Didn't apply to him 1:57:29.280 --> 1:57:34.840 at all. He could sleep with anybody's wife pretty much. Um. So, yeah, 1:57:35.000 --> 1:57:39.800 it was just altogether a very intense environment, just so 1:57:39.880 --> 1:57:44.000 much indoctrination going into the heads of the people who 1:57:44.040 --> 1:57:51.640 are part of it. Um. Yeah, just altogether shitty group. Um. Yeah. 1:57:51.680 --> 1:57:53.480 So for me, I I went away to school in 1:57:53.520 --> 1:57:56.760 another state when I was fourteen. Um, it got me like, 1:57:56.800 --> 1:57:58.640 you know, the physical distance, as well as like the 1:57:58.680 --> 1:58:02.360 space and time to actually think and reflect on what 1:58:02.400 --> 1:58:04.720 was going on. And then I started doing some research 1:58:04.720 --> 1:58:06.960 online because I was like, well, maybe what people are 1:58:07.040 --> 1:58:10.000 saying about it is true, maybe it is a cult Um. 1:58:10.040 --> 1:58:12.760 And I came across this, the tragedy of the six Mary's, 1:58:12.800 --> 1:58:17.080 which was, you know, Moon assaulting a bunch of women, uh, 1:58:17.160 --> 1:58:21.200 and that sort of like made me just, you know, 1:58:22.120 --> 1:58:23.640 it sort of brought it to a head because I 1:58:23.640 --> 1:58:26.160 had like, you know, seen for the longest time how 1:58:26.240 --> 1:58:28.920 leadership was treated versus how regular members had to live 1:58:28.960 --> 1:58:32.360 in like poverty, Um, but they got like big mansions 1:58:32.400 --> 1:58:36.960 and like nice things, Nice cars, expensive watches, but everybody 1:58:36.960 --> 1:58:38.840 else had to like give all their money to the church. 1:58:39.000 --> 1:58:45.040 And you know, was were like terrorized, Um. and Uh 1:58:45.120 --> 1:58:48.320 then eventually I was like I think I have to go. 1:58:48.640 --> 1:58:52.440 I like I had been through the process of like 1:58:52.560 --> 1:58:56.080 meeting the mystical or the the evil, other which, you know, 1:58:56.440 --> 1:58:59.160 like people outside of the church, or you know, they're 1:58:59.240 --> 1:59:02.320 fallen there, like, you know, basically they have original sin, 1:59:02.480 --> 1:59:05.880 so they're kind of evil, right. Um, and gotten to 1:59:05.920 --> 1:59:08.920 know more people, Um, queer people who were just like 1:59:08.960 --> 1:59:13.560 a hugely demonized group of people within the UC. Um, 1:59:13.600 --> 1:59:16.760 and here I am today. I'm Super Queer. Um, but 1:59:16.880 --> 1:59:20.720 like that, like Kelly. Yeah, but like getting to know 1:59:20.800 --> 1:59:22.760 people and actually seeing, you know, like, Oh my God, 1:59:22.760 --> 1:59:25.520 what they're saying. These people are not evil, they're normal, 1:59:25.760 --> 1:59:30.560 they're human, they are just different from straight people. I 1:59:30.600 --> 1:59:33.040 don't know. Uh. That to me also made like a 1:59:33.080 --> 1:59:35.960 huge difference. Um. And then when I was seventeen, I 1:59:36.000 --> 1:59:38.040 went to another school and I was like, I want 1:59:38.040 --> 1:59:41.800 to get laid. I've had a lost this. So I 1:59:41.840 --> 1:59:44.120 went out and did that and that felt like, you know, 1:59:44.160 --> 1:59:46.520 once I finally lost my virginity, it felt like sealing 1:59:46.520 --> 1:59:47.960 the deal. I'm like if I have to go to 1:59:48.000 --> 1:59:51.040 hell now, okay, and it was cool because God didn't 1:59:51.360 --> 1:59:54.720 like immediately smite me where I where I was in 1:59:54.800 --> 1:59:58.760 bed at that point, like I lived and I'm here 1:59:58.800 --> 2:00:05.200 to tell the tale. So so, yeah, that's how I left. 2:00:08.880 --> 2:00:17.240 That rules. This is much more gay of the story 2:00:17.320 --> 2:00:19.120 when I was expecting, which is all, which is always 2:00:19.120 --> 2:00:23.080 a good thing. Yeah, it reminds me a lot of 2:00:23.120 --> 2:00:26.240 like the stories of sort of like people leaving like 2:00:26.360 --> 2:00:29.880 the really right wing, like Evangelical, was like a lot 2:00:29.920 --> 2:00:33.440 of reminds me a quiverful but like, yeah, more intense, 2:00:33.640 --> 2:00:35.560 I think. Well, it's like I think like like the 2:00:36.200 --> 2:00:43.920 level of I don't know, I guess the level of separation. Yeah, yeah, 2:00:44.520 --> 2:00:47.200 they seem to be at least sort of like integrated 2:00:47.240 --> 2:00:51.760 into like other communities and stuff, whereas the Moonies, I 2:00:51.800 --> 2:00:54.879 don't know, like there's definitely like people have friends outside 2:00:54.880 --> 2:00:57.440 of it, but like generally, like people kind of keep 2:00:57.480 --> 2:00:59.840 to the moonies because, you know, they're supposed to be 2:01:00.040 --> 2:01:03.280 like God's chosen people or whatever. So they and they 2:01:03.360 --> 2:01:05.600 like look down on everyone else because they're not moonies. 2:01:06.000 --> 2:01:10.840 So yeah, it is. It's also interesting to me that 2:01:10.880 --> 2:01:14.480 like literally literally the term is just the evil other, 2:01:15.440 --> 2:01:18.320 which is so I don't think that's a literal term, 2:01:18.400 --> 2:01:20.600 but like that's how I sort of phrase it or whatever. 2:01:20.680 --> 2:01:24.600 But yeah, or just like fallen people would be, or 2:01:24.640 --> 2:01:27.880 the fallen world, the outsiders, is what they would say. 2:01:28.360 --> 2:01:33.920 So just this very, you know, like very like stigmatizing 2:01:34.000 --> 2:01:37.000 language that they use for people. Lots of people are 2:01:37.040 --> 2:01:39.080 just called evil in the church. To they just call 2:01:39.160 --> 2:01:42.680 people evil like Willy Nilly. It's like Oh, you're satanic, 2:01:42.880 --> 2:01:49.640 like no, that's not it that's not that I don't 2:01:49.640 --> 2:01:51.800 know how to do a good tradition into this. Yeah, 2:01:52.320 --> 2:01:56.040 we're going to adds. Yeah, so I want to just 2:01:56.200 --> 2:02:02.160 also talk about specifically one of the things that the 2:02:02.240 --> 2:02:04.840 church does and one of the things like the sort 2:02:04.840 --> 2:02:09.360 of one of the specific things that to Yamagami, Yamagami 2:02:09.440 --> 2:02:14.440 seems to have been suffering from, and well, physically is mom, 2:02:14.520 --> 2:02:16.960 but his sort of full family, is the financial abuse. 2:02:18.520 --> 2:02:22.160 And Yeah, I wanted to ask you a bit about 2:02:22.240 --> 2:02:25.560 what that looks like. And also there's some stuff about 2:02:25.560 --> 2:02:29.920 the Japanese context that I think is slightly different than. Yeah, 2:02:30.880 --> 2:02:33.040 so the American of the Korean context. I want to 2:02:33.040 --> 2:02:36.960 ask you a bit about that. Yeah, definitely. So across 2:02:37.040 --> 2:02:40.800 the board, uh, comunification church members are expected to bring 2:02:40.840 --> 2:02:44.560 in a lot of money through fundraising, through tithing, uh, 2:02:44.800 --> 2:02:49.640 providing free labor or, you know, low paid labor through 2:02:49.720 --> 2:02:54.840 church businesses and stuff. Um. So the cases though, that 2:02:54.920 --> 2:02:58.960 in Japan, because of the rhetoric of the church, which is, 2:02:59.000 --> 2:03:05.800 you know, basically born out of, you know, the environment. Um, 2:03:05.840 --> 2:03:10.760 in Korea, uh so there's basically this thought in the 2:03:10.840 --> 2:03:16.320 church that they say, Um, that Korea is the atom nation. Uh, 2:03:16.400 --> 2:03:21.080 because that's where, uh, you know, the Messiah came back, uh, 2:03:21.360 --> 2:03:24.520 South Korea and Um, and that Japan is the eve 2:03:24.640 --> 2:03:28.240 nations supposed to submit to the atom nation. Um and 2:03:28.280 --> 2:03:31.880 also sort of pay indemnity, which is a big word 2:03:31.880 --> 2:03:36.600 in the church, and uh, for the atrocity is committed 2:03:36.680 --> 2:03:41.240 during the Japanese occupation of Korea. Um. And so this 2:03:41.600 --> 2:03:45.720 means that Japanese members have to pay significantly more for 2:03:45.800 --> 2:03:51.120 pretty much everything. Um. So there's it's like just uh 2:03:51.400 --> 2:03:54.640 you know, like instead of like a type of reparations 2:03:54.680 --> 2:03:57.800 where it's like, you know, we'll give you money, it's 2:03:57.800 --> 2:04:02.880 like they make them suffer for uh that fact. and 2:04:03.200 --> 2:04:07.920 Uh so, like you know, fundraising goals are very high. Um, 2:04:08.640 --> 2:04:16.680 let me see, I think I had a figure here somewhere. Um. Uh. Yeah, 2:04:16.720 --> 2:04:20.839 so Japanese membership they bring in roughly of the church's income. 2:04:21.400 --> 2:04:25.320 Uh so a large amount for, you know, like proportionally. 2:04:25.440 --> 2:04:29.600 Not You know, there are a lot of members in Japan. However, 2:04:30.240 --> 2:04:32.680 throughout the world, that is like proportionately. You know, where 2:04:32.800 --> 2:04:35.600 most of it comes from. Um. And then, as of 2:04:35.640 --> 2:04:39.560 several years ago, uh, the Japanese church fundraising goal was 2:04:40.080 --> 2:04:43.720 thirty billion yen, or around two million for that year, 2:04:43.760 --> 2:04:48.760 I believe. So, just, you know. And so they go 2:04:48.800 --> 2:04:54.280 out selling uh, ancestor liberation is one thing. Uh, you're 2:04:54.320 --> 2:04:58.720 supposed to pay exorbitant fees for your ancestors to go 2:04:58.800 --> 2:05:03.919 to heaven. Um. There was a book called the Chanson 2:05:04.040 --> 2:05:08.160 young and that book was extremely expensive and, of course, 2:05:08.360 --> 2:05:12.640 much more expensive for members in Japan. Um, I think 2:05:12.720 --> 2:05:14.800 I read a figure where I think, I don't remember 2:05:14.800 --> 2:05:17.240 what year it was and it was not very recent. 2:05:17.280 --> 2:05:20.760 I think it might have been or something, or two 2:05:20.760 --> 2:05:23.920 thousand two or something. I'm not sure, but it costs like, roughly, 2:05:24.000 --> 2:05:29.960 like two thousand American dollars to go to the marriage ceremony, 2:05:30.080 --> 2:05:32.160 the one of the mass weddings that the moonies do, 2:05:32.280 --> 2:05:39.480 where everybody has arranged marriage, arranged married, Um. And so yeah, 2:05:39.640 --> 2:05:45.160 just like these huge amounts of money, uh, directly flowing 2:05:45.320 --> 2:05:50.240 from the pockets of the membership and anyone they happened to, 2:05:50.440 --> 2:05:55.160 you know, have give them money, uh into the coffers 2:05:55.160 --> 2:05:57.160 of the Church and, you know, directly on up to 2:05:57.240 --> 2:06:01.560 like the Moon family, who are billionaires. Um. Another thing 2:06:01.560 --> 2:06:06.040 I would say here is that they often uh so 2:06:06.120 --> 2:06:09.640 for people who that they're trying to fundraise from uh, 2:06:09.720 --> 2:06:15.520 they often will target like elderly widows and people who are, 2:06:15.560 --> 2:06:18.160 you know, in sort of precarious places and come to 2:06:18.200 --> 2:06:21.200 them and say, your family member who has passed away 2:06:21.480 --> 2:06:24.240 wants you to give this donation to the church. Uh. 2:06:24.280 --> 2:06:26.200 They also like at one point made up like a 2:06:26.200 --> 2:06:29.880 fake Buddhist sect in order to like specifically target people. 2:06:30.360 --> 2:06:34.440 So it goes deep. There's a there's a lot to that. Yeah, 2:06:34.680 --> 2:06:36.080 like one of the things I remember reading those like that. 2:06:36.160 --> 2:06:38.040 Yet they had like this whole network of like fake 2:06:38.160 --> 2:06:42.320 mediums you would like like specifically to target people. They add. 2:06:42.360 --> 2:06:46.520 So we target the widows, which is like I don't know. 2:06:47.640 --> 2:06:49.760 So so much of the stuff that they do is 2:06:49.800 --> 2:06:54.040 just so incredibly leak like, I think. Yeah, I mean 2:06:54.240 --> 2:06:56.200 the thing that always that got me was the sort 2:06:56.200 --> 2:07:01.160 of like like the the way in which they're sort 2:07:01.160 --> 2:07:07.040 of weaponizing like like Japan's sort of war crimes in 2:07:07.040 --> 2:07:09.560 in South Korea and North Korea as well. And it's 2:07:09.600 --> 2:07:13.600 like it's like a on the one hand, like yeah, 2:07:13.760 --> 2:07:15.640 like a all this body is just going to like 2:07:15.680 --> 2:07:20.200 a bunch of like too rich fascists and then be like, 2:07:20.320 --> 2:07:21.640 and I think this is something else we can sort 2:07:21.640 --> 2:07:26.680 of get into is, like, okay, so the church's main 2:07:26.760 --> 2:07:29.920 political allies in Japan are the people who did all 2:07:29.920 --> 2:07:37.400 that ship Yep, like, no, it's just a constant deflection, 2:07:37.560 --> 2:07:40.240 pretty much. Yeah, and I mean it's interesting too, because, 2:07:40.240 --> 2:07:42.120 like you get, you get this, like some of the 2:07:42.120 --> 2:07:45.080 newspapers they fund will like openly say that, like, Japan 2:07:45.120 --> 2:07:48.640 should rearm again and like Japan should like start retaking 2:07:48.680 --> 2:07:51.680 Korea and then, like you have did, the other art 2:07:51.720 --> 2:07:53.800 with their business being like hey, pay US money for 2:07:54.040 --> 2:07:56.600 all the people you guys killed, and it's less. I 2:07:56.640 --> 2:08:05.080 don't know, it's yeah, it's pretty it's the worst, honestly. Yeah, yeah, 2:08:05.200 --> 2:08:08.200 and I guess, I guess. Yeah, I think. I think 2:08:08.240 --> 2:08:10.200 this is as good a place as I need to 2:08:10.240 --> 2:08:14.880 go into. Like, okay, so the moodies like could not 2:08:15.080 --> 2:08:17.520 do the things that they do in Japan without an 2:08:17.560 --> 2:08:21.480 incredibly large degree of institutional support. Um, part of this 2:08:21.600 --> 2:08:24.360 sort is with the Yakuza because, like you can't run, 2:08:25.480 --> 2:08:30.440 like you can't do organized crime stuff like like running 2:08:30.440 --> 2:08:35.080 an entire network of people to defraud widows, like in Japan, 2:08:35.280 --> 2:08:37.520 without the acquisite like you having some kind of deal 2:08:37.600 --> 2:08:42.040 with them. YEA, and yeah, and and and that. That 2:08:42.200 --> 2:08:46.640 also bizarrely ties in with sort of how how the 2:08:46.640 --> 2:08:52.480 innification Church got integrated with the sort of mainstream? Wow, yeah, 2:08:52.560 --> 2:08:55.760 you know, I'm just gonna call them mainstream, like fuck it. People, people, people, 2:08:55.760 --> 2:08:58.520 people will quibble about the different factions of the LDP. 2:08:59.360 --> 2:09:02.520 I frame we don't care for reasons that will get 2:09:02.560 --> 2:09:07.680 to but yeah, how. How? How they got, like and yeah, 2:09:07.680 --> 2:09:09.400 which I guess we're talking about, like the origins of 2:09:09.400 --> 2:09:12.600 how they got ingrained with Japan's like perpetual ruling party, 2:09:12.720 --> 2:09:27.880 live Democratic Party. Yeah, Um, sorry, were you? Were you? Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, sorry, 2:09:28.040 --> 2:09:32.240 I wasn't sure that was a question. It's okay. Um. So, yeah, 2:09:32.280 --> 2:09:36.400 it goes all the way back to uh, like so 2:09:36.640 --> 2:09:40.360 it goes. It goes back pretty far. So Novasuka Kishi 2:09:40.840 --> 2:09:46.080 obvious maternal grandfather. So he initially became sort of embroiled 2:09:46.120 --> 2:09:49.640 with the UC kind of stuff, unification church stuff, in 2:09:49.680 --> 2:09:54.160 the early days of when the movement Um was in Japan. Uh, 2:09:54.200 --> 2:09:58.040 he collaborated on stuff like the foundation for victory over communism. 2:09:58.640 --> 2:10:01.760 Spoke at their the founding of the organization at a 2:10:01.840 --> 2:10:05.280 UC church which was, I think, uh, next to fish's 2:10:05.480 --> 2:10:07.760 a state or something like that. Yeah, and I think, 2:10:07.800 --> 2:10:09.760 I think, I think, I think he sold them their 2:10:09.760 --> 2:10:13.919 first building in Japan. Yeah, I think, if I remembering 2:10:13.920 --> 2:10:22.280 something that I read at one point. Right, yeah, so, Um, so, yeah. 2:10:22.360 --> 2:10:26.080 And then, uh, in sixty two, the UC was able 2:10:26.160 --> 2:10:30.160 to convert fifty leaders of the alternationalist Nietzchech in Buddhist 2:10:30.480 --> 2:10:33.720 Uh sect, called sect called, Oh Gosh, I don't know 2:10:33.720 --> 2:10:37.960 how to pronounce this, Rio Show Cost Kai. Uh, and 2:10:38.000 --> 2:10:41.960 they had a lot of strong use of Yakaza connections. Um. 2:10:42.040 --> 2:10:46.040 And then Sami Kobuki was the first, you see, president 2:10:46.080 --> 2:10:49.080 in Japan. Uh, he was the Yakuza Lieutenant and second 2:10:49.120 --> 2:10:51.600 in command of that group that I had just mentioned. 2:10:52.040 --> 2:10:54.680 And and the other thing we should mention about this 2:10:54.800 --> 2:10:59.760 about the sort of how the occusite ties. Yeah, is that? So? Okay? So, 2:11:00.000 --> 2:11:02.360 Obsa Kishi is the guy who founds liberal democratic, the 2:11:02.360 --> 2:11:05.080 Liberal Democratic Party, right like He. The Liberal Democratic Party 2:11:05.160 --> 2:11:09.240 is his creation. It is like what that party is 2:11:09.240 --> 2:11:14.480 is all of Japan's conservatives basically like basically seating to 2:11:14.520 --> 2:11:16.720 his authority and being like, okay, fine, we're gonna follow 2:11:16.760 --> 2:11:21.200 your lead. Um, and his his party is like his 2:11:21.520 --> 2:11:24.440 base and his funding is basically a combination of what 2:11:24.640 --> 2:11:27.800 he he like. Kishi himself is a like artual words 2:11:27.840 --> 2:11:31.520 of war criminal. Um, his his base is basically in 2:11:31.640 --> 2:11:36.520 the old Japanese fascists. He is funded by, like, well, 2:11:36.560 --> 2:11:39.280 partially funded, like funded directly by the CIA. Um, he's 2:11:39.320 --> 2:11:42.040 also funded by but the the CIA in particular here 2:11:42.120 --> 2:11:45.320 is working through the Yakuza, because one of what that's 2:11:45.320 --> 2:11:47.280 that's one of the sort of the will like will 2:11:47.320 --> 2:11:48.800 it be in this sort of like we will. Will 2:11:48.800 --> 2:11:51.240 it be sent up? Not Cia, but yeah, that basically 2:11:51.240 --> 2:11:53.400 American intelligence in the American army starts working to the 2:11:53.400 --> 2:11:58.200 Akus as like an anti communist Um Force, and he 2:11:58.200 --> 2:12:03.360 he gets bankrolled by this two guys named Kodama and Um, right, 2:12:03.400 --> 2:12:07.720 you reached. Yeah, Sasakawa, who are like Kodamas is like 2:12:07.720 --> 2:12:10.320 like the like milit basically like the guy who is 2:12:10.320 --> 2:12:12.840 in charge of the Yakaza. He's also a fascist. Um 2:12:13.680 --> 2:12:17.200 Kawa is this self like literally called himself the world's 2:12:17.280 --> 2:12:20.960 rishest fascist. And both of these guys are like huge 2:12:20.960 --> 2:12:25.160 bank rollers of of Kishi. They are also and you know, 2:12:25.200 --> 2:12:27.480 and when, when? When Kishi is like bringing in the 2:12:27.560 --> 2:12:31.520 church like this? This is how this is, this is 2:12:31.560 --> 2:12:35.720 how all these people have got have Yakaza connections because, yeah, 2:12:35.800 --> 2:12:38.360 it's it's this. The whole sort of Japanese right wing 2:12:38.520 --> 2:12:43.600 like political machine is like one like happy family that 2:12:43.760 --> 2:12:48.400 is doing doing the worst stuff altogether, at the same 2:12:48.440 --> 2:12:52.000 time funded by the CIA. Yep, and like, and also, 2:12:52.520 --> 2:12:54.440 I need to say this, I said this is my episodebook, 2:12:54.840 --> 2:12:59.000 like like the level of CIA involvement here. Like there 2:12:59.000 --> 2:13:02.880 there are individual will CIA agents assigned to individual Liberal 2:13:02.920 --> 2:13:05.440 Democratic Party candidates in the fifties to make sure they 2:13:05.480 --> 2:13:09.240 won their elections. I did not know that, but that 2:13:09.480 --> 2:13:21.480 is it's not wild so specific. Wow, yes, yeah, concerning things, 2:13:21.600 --> 2:13:26.840 concerning things, Oh God, Um. But yeah, so, like, yeah, 2:13:26.920 --> 2:13:29.720 to this day a lot of LDP candidates and politicians 2:13:29.760 --> 2:13:32.800 still have ties to do you see, get donations from it. UH, 2:13:33.280 --> 2:13:37.560 used like membership as like free labor. uh, even like 2:13:37.720 --> 2:13:43.920 having secretaries from who are members of the UC and uh, like, 2:13:44.280 --> 2:13:47.320 you know, sometimes they would you know see like some 2:13:47.480 --> 2:13:51.240 sort of like classified or you know, information and stuff 2:13:51.280 --> 2:13:56.160 like that. So there's, yeah, there's like apart from like that, 2:13:56.760 --> 2:14:00.720 like just so interconnected. Yeah, do you do you remember 2:14:00.800 --> 2:14:05.720 the story about the LDPs like number two guy, like 2:14:06.040 --> 2:14:11.000 getting getting moon to be able to visit Japan. Ah, sorry, 2:14:11.040 --> 2:14:14.480 I don't Oh God. Okay, so that my memory of 2:14:14.560 --> 2:14:18.840 this story was okay. So, like, Japan has a series 2:14:18.880 --> 2:14:22.640 of really weird laws about like, okay, Japan is a 2:14:22.680 --> 2:14:25.480 series of very weird laws about many, many things. One 2:14:25.520 --> 2:14:27.440 of them has to do with it. It's something like 2:14:27.600 --> 2:14:29.760 if you've been convicted of a felony in another country, 2:14:29.840 --> 2:14:34.120 you can't enter Japan. And I don't know if it's 2:14:34.360 --> 2:14:35.480 I don't know if it's a felony. I don't I 2:14:35.480 --> 2:14:37.480 don't know what the I forget. I'm forgetting what the 2:14:37.600 --> 2:14:39.720 legal bar is for what you have to be like 2:14:39.800 --> 2:14:42.080 convicted of in or to not be able to enter 2:14:42.120 --> 2:14:46.960 the country. But I, like moon is a I like 2:14:47.240 --> 2:14:51.919 he like he was like convicted by the US governments 2:14:52.440 --> 2:14:55.000 of like perjury and a bunch of other ships because 2:14:55.240 --> 2:14:57.480 of the crimes that he did, and so he, like 2:14:57.600 --> 2:15:00.920 technically legally could not enter Japan. And then, like the 2:15:01.080 --> 2:15:07.480 the the vice president of Um an office, presently got 2:15:07.720 --> 2:15:09.440 him for his title. But maybe basically, like what like? 2:15:09.560 --> 2:15:15.480 Basically like the like the like the second most powerful 2:15:15.520 --> 2:15:19.520 man in Japanese politics and the nineties, like very specifically 2:15:19.640 --> 2:15:22.280 did a whole bunch of Visa Bullshit so that specifically 2:15:22.360 --> 2:15:27.720 boon could go to Japan legally. Not Surprising, not surprising, 2:15:27.840 --> 2:15:34.400 but wow. Yeah, it's like, Um, the lengths people will 2:15:34.440 --> 2:15:39.560 go to to collaborate with other fascists. Yeah, I think 2:15:39.680 --> 2:15:41.640 that's that's I don't know, that's to me. What makes 2:15:41.680 --> 2:15:48.080 the Sassination really interesting is that. Like, okay, so, if 2:15:48.120 --> 2:15:51.520 you ask like even like in Japan, if you had 2:15:51.560 --> 2:15:55.560 asked the average person what the connection between like Shinzowabe 2:15:55.560 --> 2:15:57.840 and Edification Church was, like, most people have no idea. 2:15:58.040 --> 2:16:00.400 Like before this assassination, those people had like no idea 2:16:00.440 --> 2:16:05.440 what that was. Yeah, yeah, after the assassination this the 2:16:05.520 --> 2:16:12.320 whole landscape has changed. Um, yeah, I mean it's it's 2:16:12.360 --> 2:16:15.400 been really interesting to watch like this. This really seems 2:16:15.440 --> 2:16:20.600 like an incredibly sort of politically effective assassination because, yeah, okay, so, 2:16:20.720 --> 2:16:22.080 you know, you you you had, there was, there was, 2:16:22.160 --> 2:16:24.320 you know, you had the very the initial right wing backlash, 2:16:24.400 --> 2:16:28.080 but the righting backlash kind of it got kind of 2:16:28.200 --> 2:16:30.160 muted when it when it became clear that it like 2:16:30.440 --> 2:16:32.760 wasn't a left wing radical, which I think would have 2:16:32.800 --> 2:16:36.600 actually been an enormous disaster. Yeah, but then the guy 2:16:36.800 --> 2:16:39.840 was Yamagami, was pretty right wing himself. Yeah, it's like 2:16:39.920 --> 2:16:41.960 he's a right wing guy and but also like his 2:16:42.040 --> 2:16:46.960 story is really sympathetic. Yeah, I mean I feel for 2:16:47.040 --> 2:16:50.600 the guy. Like he had so much trauba in his life, honestly, 2:16:51.400 --> 2:16:55.920 and like it's obvious like, and I think you know 2:16:56.000 --> 2:16:59.760 a lot of uh former members, you know, sort of 2:17:00.040 --> 2:17:04.560 understand how that feels. UH, most of us have an 2:17:04.560 --> 2:17:13.200 assassinated a prime minister, but so far, so far. But yeah, like, 2:17:13.480 --> 2:17:16.120 I mean we understand that pain of where he is 2:17:16.160 --> 2:17:19.960 coming from and like, you know why, upon learning that 2:17:20.200 --> 2:17:23.920 Abe had these ties, he's sort of like, I felt 2:17:24.560 --> 2:17:28.520 like compelled to do something. Yeah, and I think the 2:17:28.840 --> 2:17:31.520 I mean there's also this element at work here that's 2:17:31.560 --> 2:17:34.840 kind of weird, which is like, okay, it's very, very 2:17:34.879 --> 2:17:37.680 hard normally to get like right wing Japanese people to 2:17:37.760 --> 2:17:40.240 turn on their own party. Uh, the one way that 2:17:40.360 --> 2:17:42.240 you can do it is by going hey, look at 2:17:42.280 --> 2:17:47.720 these Koreans. So there's like weird dynamics going on here. 2:17:48.400 --> 2:17:50.160 Like there were some, there were some like even further 2:17:50.320 --> 2:17:52.080 right parties who were like, you know, using this thing 2:17:52.120 --> 2:17:53.960 as a campaign thing of like Ah, this party is 2:17:54.000 --> 2:17:55.680 like a fake right wing party, like they're all being 2:17:55.760 --> 2:17:58.320 run by like Koreans, and it's like, okay, that's like not, 2:17:59.400 --> 2:18:01.840 like the thing that is bad about the moonies is 2:18:01.879 --> 2:18:04.360 not that they're Korean, it's that it's all of the 2:18:04.440 --> 2:18:08.920 other ship they do. Yeah, and I think that's complicated, 2:18:09.040 --> 2:18:16.119 but also, yeah, like the political impact this has had 2:18:16.200 --> 2:18:21.360 has been like enormous. Yeah, yeah, do you want to 2:18:21.640 --> 2:18:26.760 talk about that a bit? Yeah, so, Um, so, okay. 2:18:28.840 --> 2:18:31.720 Obviously it has shined a lot of light on sort 2:18:31.720 --> 2:18:35.880 of the connections that a lot of members of the 2:18:35.959 --> 2:18:39.160 government there have from the L D P, Um, as 2:18:39.200 --> 2:18:45.040 well as other parties have with do you see getting donations, etcetera. Um, 2:18:45.200 --> 2:18:47.920 people are pissed about it, you know, as they should be. Um. 2:18:48.200 --> 2:18:54.440 So I guess that, uh, Prime Minister Kashida has said 2:18:54.600 --> 2:18:58.520 that they want to cut ties with the Unification Church 2:18:58.600 --> 2:19:00.920 at this point. Uh, and it sort of remains to 2:19:00.959 --> 2:19:03.440 be seen whether that actually happens or not, because it 2:19:03.480 --> 2:19:06.320 can usually just be like lip service kind of ship. Um, 2:19:06.920 --> 2:19:10.240 but the politicians are uh, and I'm not sure if 2:19:10.280 --> 2:19:11.760 this is specifically for the LD P or sort of 2:19:11.800 --> 2:19:14.879 across the board. Um, there's like a thing where they're 2:19:14.879 --> 2:19:17.800 supposed to self report any ties or donations to the 2:19:17.920 --> 2:19:20.560 U S, which is just, you know, like I don't know, 2:19:20.760 --> 2:19:23.600 like I don't think everybody's going to come forward with 2:19:23.720 --> 2:19:25.800 that sort of thing. If you're supposed to do it yourself, 2:19:25.920 --> 2:19:30.400 that's like not how that should work. But Um, so, 2:19:30.600 --> 2:19:32.960 I mean, like it remains to be seen, you know, 2:19:33.080 --> 2:19:36.959 if those ties are actually gonna be cut. Um. So also, 2:19:37.240 --> 2:19:41.280 like there has been sort of like, uh a, a 2:19:41.800 --> 2:19:45.000 a lot of support from uh, like lawyer groups, like 2:19:45.080 --> 2:19:49.160 the National Network of lawyers against spiritual sales Um, who has, 2:19:49.280 --> 2:19:53.160 you know, worked with, you know, cult members and like 2:19:53.240 --> 2:19:57.720 specifically a lot of Unification Church members or former members 2:19:57.840 --> 2:20:02.560 or whatever who have, you know, lost money through spiritual 2:20:02.640 --> 2:20:05.240 sales Um. And they've also just recently called for the 2:20:05.280 --> 2:20:08.480 dissolution of the UC in Japan, which is pretty cool 2:20:08.520 --> 2:20:11.800 and I hope that happens. How realistic it is, given 2:20:12.200 --> 2:20:15.520 all of the strong ties to the government, but that 2:20:15.560 --> 2:20:19.600 would be cool. Um. And then also I saw a 2:20:19.680 --> 2:20:22.520 thing a couple of days ago that Japanese consulates and 2:20:22.560 --> 2:20:26.400 embassies have a program that is offering advice or assistance, uh, 2:20:26.560 --> 2:20:30.560 to UC members who are Japanese nationals and their children, Um, 2:20:30.680 --> 2:20:33.120 and that ends on September thirty, I think. So, if 2:20:33.160 --> 2:20:36.360 anybody needs that, getting fast. Um. But I think that 2:20:36.400 --> 2:20:40.119 also applies in America. So if, like you're a Japanese 2:20:40.240 --> 2:20:42.480 national and like a victim of the U S or 2:20:42.680 --> 2:20:46.760 if your parents are, uh, they those that open and 2:20:46.840 --> 2:20:50.080 I don't know exactly what the levels of support resources 2:20:50.120 --> 2:20:55.879 they're offering are, uh, but it's worth looking into for sure. Um. 2:20:57.000 --> 2:20:58.960 But yeah, like, so there's been like sort of this 2:20:59.040 --> 2:21:04.600 outpouring of support from various groups and there's, you know, 2:21:04.760 --> 2:21:07.080 like it's really shining a light on the issue of 2:21:07.240 --> 2:21:11.119 like especially what it's like to be a second generation 2:21:11.240 --> 2:21:15.640 member of occult and the trauma that people like us 2:21:15.760 --> 2:21:19.640 have gone through. Um, you know, there are definitely a 2:21:19.680 --> 2:21:23.600 lot of calls for like support and mental health care, 2:21:23.920 --> 2:21:26.640 as well as like, you know, ways to sort of 2:21:26.680 --> 2:21:33.160 get people out of situations like that in the first place. Um. Yeah, yeah, 2:21:33.200 --> 2:21:38.200 I don't know, I I. I. I hope this translates 2:21:38.440 --> 2:21:43.080 into actual resources. And Yeah, just sort of like the 2:21:43.200 --> 2:21:48.040 LDPs through ratings tanking, which like is good, and like 2:21:48.240 --> 2:21:51.920 it is very funny that Kishia has had to act 2:21:52.080 --> 2:21:59.360 like half his cabinet. Yeah, I don't know. I think 2:21:59.400 --> 2:22:01.720 it it remains, although he remains in power and he's 2:22:02.600 --> 2:22:06.760 see too interesting. So it's like, you know, clearly there's 2:22:06.840 --> 2:22:10.080 not a lot, like even if people are like having 2:22:10.160 --> 2:22:12.760 a little bit of like the smallest level of transparency 2:22:12.840 --> 2:22:16.480 about this stuff, like I don't necessarily know how far 2:22:16.600 --> 2:22:19.640 it will actually go into like, you know, making amends 2:22:20.160 --> 2:22:23.320 or like protecting people from further abuse or, you know, 2:22:23.400 --> 2:22:27.039 getting people their money back. I don't know, I think 2:22:27.160 --> 2:22:30.880 there's a there's something. I think that's that's really sort of, 2:22:34.160 --> 2:22:37.800 I don't know, like really grim about the way that 2:22:37.920 --> 2:22:41.640 this worked out, which the Japanese police knew what was 2:22:41.720 --> 2:22:45.439 going on and why this sessination had happened like immediately, 2:22:46.520 --> 2:22:48.879 like they found his hard drive and he'd written out 2:22:48.879 --> 2:22:51.840 the whole thing about why he did it. Yeah, and 2:22:52.000 --> 2:22:55.320 then they intentionally held the information and basically made were 2:22:55.360 --> 2:22:57.120 able to maintain a press in Bargo until after the 2:22:57.200 --> 2:23:02.080 election happened. Yeah, you know, now everyone fucking hates the LDB, 2:23:02.320 --> 2:23:05.200 like the perminision's approve of ratings, like theories present, like 2:23:05.400 --> 2:23:07.720 it's really bad. I mean it went from like fifty 2:23:07.800 --> 2:23:09.520 went from like fifty two to like thirties six and 2:23:09.600 --> 2:23:13.160 like a couple of weeks. But because the people who 2:23:13.200 --> 2:23:15.360 are people who connected the church are the people in charge, 2:23:15.959 --> 2:23:19.000 they were able to like suppress this information long enough 2:23:19.080 --> 2:23:22.480 to like shape how the election was going to go 2:23:23.560 --> 2:23:24.920 make sure that it was sort of like the right 2:23:25.000 --> 2:23:28.040 wing shock from Oh my God, that's assassinated prime minister 2:23:28.760 --> 2:23:31.200 and not the weight. The assassinated prime minister for a 2:23:31.240 --> 2:23:35.760 reason that's like incredibly justified and relatable to like this 2:23:35.959 --> 2:23:38.440 is as relatable with a motive of assassination as like 2:23:38.560 --> 2:23:42.800 I've ever seen. Yeah, I mean, like, as far as 2:23:42.879 --> 2:23:45.680 reasons for assassinating people go, this is a pretty like 2:23:46.000 --> 2:23:50.800 solid reason, like there's there's stuff there. Yeah, and like 2:23:50.879 --> 2:23:52.959 and I think it's just like like it's it's interesting. 2:23:53.040 --> 2:23:57.120 That's like it's it's rare assassination where the assassin is 2:23:57.879 --> 2:24:03.200 a very empathetic figure to like I think a lot 2:24:03.280 --> 2:24:06.160 of the time when you get people doing stuff like this, 2:24:06.520 --> 2:24:11.080 like it's there. There's sort of like one to one 2:24:11.120 --> 2:24:14.160 correlation with like okay, like how how? How how do 2:24:14.280 --> 2:24:17.160 you feel about sort of like like how how do 2:24:17.160 --> 2:24:19.400 you feel about assassination in general? is going to like 2:24:19.440 --> 2:24:21.960 determine your dicay, like determined your sort of response to 2:24:22.200 --> 2:24:27.920 the actual action, whereas I think here it's different, because 2:24:29.160 --> 2:24:32.200 you know like that yeah, this, this, this is someone who, yeah, 2:24:32.240 --> 2:24:33.840 I mean I keep saying that he's sort of like 2:24:33.879 --> 2:24:35.880 imminutely relatable, but it's like, yeah, this is, this is 2:24:35.959 --> 2:24:40.520 someone who, I don't know, has been through just an 2:24:40.560 --> 2:24:44.320 incredible amount of trauma in a way that's like very 2:24:44.440 --> 2:24:49.520 easily sort of digestible to like regular people. Yeah, it's like, yeah, 2:24:49.720 --> 2:24:55.680 very obvious trauma and like, you know, yeah, I don't know, 2:24:56.080 --> 2:24:58.960 it's and I really hope that that that that really 2:24:59.080 --> 2:25:03.600 does actually translated to resources for mental health resources, because 2:25:04.360 --> 2:25:06.640 I do too. I feel like as well as mental 2:25:06.680 --> 2:25:08.720 health resources, I help there are like, you know, financial 2:25:08.840 --> 2:25:11.880 resources and you know, like all sorts of other resources 2:25:11.920 --> 2:25:14.720 as well, because, like dealing with the fallout of, you know, 2:25:14.920 --> 2:25:18.600 having been in a like a cult is incredibly difficult 2:25:18.640 --> 2:25:21.360 and requires a lot of space and time, and a 2:25:21.440 --> 2:25:24.800 lot of people are, you know, left with like PTSD 2:25:25.040 --> 2:25:27.640 after that and it'll last for your whole life and 2:25:27.720 --> 2:25:30.800 that makes you know, for a lot of people, that 2:25:30.920 --> 2:25:34.800 makes you know, having getting money and doing job things 2:25:34.959 --> 2:25:37.400 extremely hard, especially, you know, if you're like getting like 2:25:37.959 --> 2:25:42.520 emotionally like thrown back into that all of the time. Um, 2:25:44.080 --> 2:25:45.960 so I hope there are like more, you know, like 2:25:46.200 --> 2:25:49.840 material resources that are also available in addition to uh, 2:25:50.200 --> 2:25:53.320 sort of like mental health care and therapy things. Is. 2:25:53.400 --> 2:25:55.600 That's something that I feel like it's all too often 2:25:55.800 --> 2:26:02.400 just not there for people who have been through abuse. Yeah, 2:26:02.480 --> 2:26:05.959 and I think also there's there's this way in which 2:26:06.120 --> 2:26:10.520 like like a lot of this like insofar as there's 2:26:10.520 --> 2:26:14.240 any kind of like support network like in the US, 2:26:14.280 --> 2:26:17.800 and this is also true of Japan, two maybe as 2:26:18.040 --> 2:26:20.240 I don't know, the Japanese offer stay. It's not great. 2:26:20.680 --> 2:26:24.400 But yeah, like there's an extent to which like the 2:26:24.480 --> 2:26:26.840 sort of like last safety net you have is your family, 2:26:28.160 --> 2:26:31.120 and you know, like this is this is a kind 2:26:31.160 --> 2:26:32.879 of thing that can very easily cut you off from 2:26:32.879 --> 2:26:34.800 your family and that that has, you know, I mean 2:26:34.840 --> 2:26:37.000 that that has emotional consequences, but like, yeah, that that 2:26:37.080 --> 2:26:45.280 has enormous financial consequences. That really don't like. I don't 2:26:45.320 --> 2:26:48.360 know I when when, when I was originally doing research 2:26:48.400 --> 2:26:50.480 on this, like I I read a lot of sort 2:26:50.520 --> 2:26:55.040 of like people arguing about like deprogramming stuff, and it 2:26:55.360 --> 2:27:00.000 like they just didn't talk about like that kind of stuff. 2:27:00.000 --> 2:27:02.840 Often it was always just sort of like, I don't know, 2:27:03.920 --> 2:27:07.560 really weird, and it's sort of like grotesque and detached 2:27:07.640 --> 2:27:11.480 way to think about it instead of like yeah, so, yeah, 2:27:11.520 --> 2:27:14.039 it depends on what type of care it is too, because, honestly, 2:27:14.120 --> 2:27:18.160 deprogramming is another cult. It is another cult. It's like 2:27:18.240 --> 2:27:22.480 an anticult cult and, Um, it just, you know, it 2:27:23.200 --> 2:27:26.480 re traumatizes those who are already traumatized and honestly, like 2:27:26.640 --> 2:27:30.280 people who have been deprogrammed sometimes leave, but a lot 2:27:30.320 --> 2:27:32.480 of the time it just increases their fervor for being 2:27:32.600 --> 2:27:35.959 part of whatever movement they're part of already. Um, because 2:27:36.040 --> 2:27:37.480 they're like Oh, if this is, you know, like what 2:27:37.640 --> 2:27:39.400 everybody is going to do to be if I leave, 2:27:39.600 --> 2:27:41.320 like of course, I gotta stick with this because, you know, 2:27:41.400 --> 2:27:43.200 then like it's like every what they've been saying the 2:27:43.240 --> 2:27:46.879 whole time about, you know, being persecuted and like hurt 2:27:46.959 --> 2:27:49.760 and stuff then becomes true. Right. Yeah, I guess that's 2:27:49.760 --> 2:27:53.279 the thing I would say about. Like that's my disclaimer 2:27:53.320 --> 2:27:56.800 about de programming. Uh, and though the collective we are 2:27:56.840 --> 2:27:59.320 a part of is called deprogramming imperialism. That is because 2:27:59.360 --> 2:28:02.040 the only thing that needs to be deprogrammed really is 2:28:02.160 --> 2:28:05.400 imperialism and not people, because that's not how that works. 2:28:06.040 --> 2:28:08.840 The radicalization requires a lot of trust, a lot of time, 2:28:08.920 --> 2:28:11.520 a lot of space, a lot of reflection. It's not 2:28:11.680 --> 2:28:13.840 something that, you know, you can just like go and 2:28:13.959 --> 2:28:16.320 like lock somebody in a basement for two weeks and 2:28:16.440 --> 2:28:20.600 then like try to make them leave whatever movement there 2:28:20.640 --> 2:28:24.360 part like that's that's just abuse. Yeah, I think, like, 2:28:25.360 --> 2:28:28.760 I don't know, I think it's it's as an industry. 2:28:28.879 --> 2:28:31.400 It's not as sort of like powerful as it used 2:28:31.400 --> 2:28:37.360 to be, but I think, like, I don't know it there's, there's, 2:28:37.400 --> 2:28:39.120 there's there's a sense in which it's sort of like, 2:28:40.800 --> 2:28:42.680 you know, it almost it almost has like civil war 2:28:42.800 --> 2:28:46.200 logic where it's like both, both, both sides need the 2:28:46.320 --> 2:28:51.280 other side as sort of they're like reason to exist and, 2:28:52.160 --> 2:28:53.920 you know, so like and both, you know on both both, 2:28:53.959 --> 2:28:56.920 both sides are traumatizing people. On both sides need like 2:28:58.920 --> 2:29:00.880 like that. They're there. There's they're serfically fighting over the 2:29:00.959 --> 2:29:04.520 same group of people and each of them can sort 2:29:04.520 --> 2:29:06.600 of like offer the other side as like Oh, Hey, 2:29:06.640 --> 2:29:09.680 this is why we need to exist thing. But then 2:29:09.760 --> 2:29:11.840 it's like, you know, and like like as with, like 2:29:11.959 --> 2:29:14.320 most civil wars, it's like the actual people caught in 2:29:14.440 --> 2:29:17.520 it don't it's like no, you don't actually need, you 2:29:17.560 --> 2:29:23.320 don't want either side of the civil war. You want out. Yeah, yeah, no, 2:29:23.440 --> 2:29:26.039 it's definitely it's definitely one of those like Oh, you're 2:29:26.040 --> 2:29:28.000 stuck between a rock and a hard place kind of things. 2:29:28.080 --> 2:29:33.680 It's like both options suck. Like yeah, like the two 2:29:33.760 --> 2:29:41.160 party systems. Yeah, God, Stalin, Stalin said two good things 2:29:41.240 --> 2:29:43.200 and his entire two things that were like funny in 2:29:43.280 --> 2:29:45.360 his entire life. One of them was the pope, how 2:29:45.400 --> 2:29:47.240 many division does he have? And the second one was 2:29:47.360 --> 2:29:52.200 they're both worse. And there I mean immediately he was 2:29:52.280 --> 2:29:56.800 wrong about they're both worse, but like yeah, that's a 2:29:56.959 --> 2:30:00.520 that's a that's a real thing. That is the basis 2:30:00.560 --> 2:30:05.720 of all modern politics. Honestly, that is honestly we hate 2:30:05.800 --> 2:30:11.520 to see. I hate to see it. Yeah, yeah, on 2:30:11.800 --> 2:30:13.720 the on the other hand, though, I don't know, like 2:30:15.840 --> 2:30:20.760 I I am kind of hopeful about this, like I 2:30:20.840 --> 2:30:26.520 am too. It genuinely seems to have like changed, like, 2:30:27.240 --> 2:30:29.720 at the very least, it's changed the way that the 2:30:29.800 --> 2:30:33.280 Japanese public, like season, understands this whole thing and like 2:30:33.360 --> 2:30:35.400 this is the first time, I think, ever betther, I 2:30:35.440 --> 2:30:37.720 mean like, you know, like the Communist Party and stuff. 2:30:37.720 --> 2:30:39.320 I've been trying for like years to get people to 2:30:39.320 --> 2:30:41.360 care about this. Just no one has really cared since, like, 2:30:42.440 --> 2:30:44.440 I don't know, like they basically since the Japanese left 2:30:44.480 --> 2:30:46.680 collapse in like the seventies. Like nobody's really cared about 2:30:46.720 --> 2:30:52.440 this and I don't know, it really seems like something 2:30:52.640 --> 2:30:56.080 like it really seems like this assassination has actually changed 2:30:56.160 --> 2:31:01.240 something about just sort of like the like just the 2:31:01.840 --> 2:31:04.320 way that the Japanese politics is being structured right now. 2:31:05.360 --> 2:31:10.000 And I don't know, I'm modern really hopeful. I would 2:31:10.000 --> 2:31:12.200 say I'm too I mean, like the more light that 2:31:12.320 --> 2:31:14.240 is shed on this, I think, the better. And like, 2:31:15.200 --> 2:31:21.440 unfortunately weird things happened, but I feel like if there's 2:31:21.520 --> 2:31:26.920 any chance for some sort of Um, some sort of 2:31:27.400 --> 2:31:32.800 you know across the board or even in certain areas 2:31:32.920 --> 2:31:38.320 just specifically, any sort of like justice, that the amount 2:31:38.400 --> 2:31:44.119 of public attention on this now is, you know, potentially 2:31:44.280 --> 2:31:51.160 something that could help bring something like that about. So 2:31:51.600 --> 2:31:54.080 I don't it's been it's been like sort of a 2:31:54.160 --> 2:31:58.000 weird ride for for us x members, Um, with all 2:31:58.040 --> 2:32:01.840 of that just sort of like re traumatizing to everything happened. Um, 2:32:02.400 --> 2:32:03.960 but at the end of the day, I think a 2:32:04.000 --> 2:32:06.160 lot of us are hopeful that things can change now 2:32:06.240 --> 2:32:09.360 that people know about it, because you know before that 2:32:09.480 --> 2:32:13.440 it wasn't something that was ever really talked about. Groups 2:32:13.520 --> 2:32:16.600 like this thrive on this sort of weird combination of 2:32:16.760 --> 2:32:20.200 like operating in the shadows and also when they show up, 2:32:20.320 --> 2:32:24.400 it's through their own PR stuff. Yeah, and you know, 2:32:24.800 --> 2:32:27.960 sometimes the best way to break that, apparently, is you 2:32:28.080 --> 2:32:32.879 shoot someone who was you shoot a guy who they 2:32:32.920 --> 2:32:36.400 who was working for them. And Yeah, I don't know, 2:32:37.240 --> 2:32:42.800 I mean, yeah, I feel like, Yeahmagami sort of managed 2:32:42.920 --> 2:32:45.880 to at least, you know, he he did what he 2:32:46.320 --> 2:32:49.200 he did a thing and it has had sort of, 2:32:49.240 --> 2:32:53.039 I probably, some of the impact that he imagined it would. 2:32:53.360 --> 2:32:57.360 So I don't know, yeah, like honestly, like Im from 2:32:57.440 --> 2:33:00.360 from what I've read of his stuff, like I I 2:33:00.440 --> 2:33:02.440 think that's what better than he expected it, like it 2:33:02.520 --> 2:33:06.320 could it possibly have gone? Like? He seemed like really 2:33:06.680 --> 2:33:11.800 really sort of just like had abandoned all hope. Yeah, 2:33:11.879 --> 2:33:15.800 and I don't know, I mean, like I guess the 2:33:15.959 --> 2:33:18.360 the other thing that I really hope out of this 2:33:18.800 --> 2:33:21.120 comes out of this is that like you don't have 2:33:21.440 --> 2:33:25.200 to have people like destroying their lives a second time 2:33:25.959 --> 2:33:29.240 in sort of like just out of the incredible desperation 2:33:29.360 --> 2:33:33.000 of what they've been through, right. Yeah, preventing any of 2:33:33.080 --> 2:33:38.040 that would be optimal. Yeah, yeah, because the you know, 2:33:38.280 --> 2:33:43.360 the more that, the longer the Unification Church operates, the 2:33:43.440 --> 2:33:46.119 more people will be abused and the more violence will 2:33:46.160 --> 2:33:47.680 come out of it. Like maybe this is the most 2:33:47.840 --> 2:33:51.879 high profile like a recent bit of violence that's come 2:33:51.920 --> 2:33:57.680 out of the movement, but it's not unprecedented in any way. So, 2:33:58.240 --> 2:34:03.400 you know, it's like that's what happens when people are abused. Yeah, 2:34:03.840 --> 2:34:06.280 and it's I think it's also worth just sort of 2:34:06.440 --> 2:34:10.760 like reminding people that one of the sort of so 2:34:11.879 --> 2:34:15.640 the church has sort of splintered into various factions. Yeah, 2:34:16.080 --> 2:34:18.480 a lot of the people, well, okay, a trump trump 2:34:18.600 --> 2:34:21.760 gave a speech at like the at an event of 2:34:21.800 --> 2:34:24.920 the mainline church. A bunch of like so one of 2:34:24.959 --> 2:34:28.480 the other guys, like one of the other splinter factions, 2:34:28.520 --> 2:34:31.480 had a bunch of people at January six rot of 2:34:31.520 --> 2:34:36.240 iron ministries or sanctuary church, and those are those are 2:34:36.280 --> 2:34:40.240 the guys who had the the A R fifteen gun 2:34:40.400 --> 2:34:42.760 blessing ceremony a few years ago that made the rounds, 2:34:42.760 --> 2:34:44.840 where they wore bullet crowns and their robes and they 2:34:44.920 --> 2:34:49.440 had the guns. And they've also got land in in 2:34:49.760 --> 2:34:54.600 Pennsylvania and Tennessee and also in Waco, Texas, where they're 2:34:55.160 --> 2:34:59.240 basically preparing people for war with what Sean Moon has 2:34:59.720 --> 2:35:02.720 this ribed as something akin to the globalist deep state 2:35:02.720 --> 2:35:05.720 and Marxists. Uh, I don't know if those are his 2:35:05.800 --> 2:35:08.760 exact words, but it was something like that. So they're, 2:35:08.800 --> 2:35:10.680 you know, like they're they have an act of militia. 2:35:11.000 --> 2:35:15.000 They're preparing for war. That is what the Rod of 2:35:15.080 --> 2:35:19.840 iron is for them. That is the gun. Um, yeah, 2:35:19.840 --> 2:35:21.440 and and these are these are the if remember my 2:35:21.680 --> 2:35:23.800 my stuff on this, right, this is the fashion that 2:35:23.879 --> 2:35:26.720 owns car arms, right, yes, they do. Yeah, yeah, so 2:35:26.920 --> 2:35:30.000 they have a gun manufacturer. Now, okay, like, if Robert 2:35:30.040 --> 2:35:32.200 We're here, Robert will probably start equippling with me about 2:35:32.240 --> 2:35:34.840 how good, like the equivalent with me about the actual 2:35:34.920 --> 2:35:37.720 quality of the weapons they produced. But like, okay, they 2:35:37.800 --> 2:35:42.120 have them, they have they they have a weapons manufacturing peace, 2:35:42.520 --> 2:35:46.119 which is terrifying. Yeah, and they make the trump gun because, 2:35:46.160 --> 2:35:49.960 of course they're all super pro trump, very like patriot. 2:35:50.920 --> 2:35:54.000 A lot of q and on overlap there. And Actually 2:35:54.120 --> 2:35:58.080 Rod of Iron Ministries UH in in Japan has been 2:35:58.120 --> 2:36:02.920 helping organize q and on events. Um. And Yeah, so 2:36:03.160 --> 2:36:06.400 like there was also and so basically the relationship between 2:36:06.480 --> 2:36:12.000 rode iron and the mainline, you see, is supertense. Sean 2:36:12.160 --> 2:36:14.720 Moon and a couple of his other brothers basically want 2:36:14.760 --> 2:36:17.120 their mother dead. And who is? She's the you know, 2:36:17.200 --> 2:36:19.520 the head of the mainline church right now. Um, and 2:36:19.640 --> 2:36:23.440 not just dead but like specifically beheaded. Um. So there 2:36:23.600 --> 2:36:27.200 was an event recently over the summer, I think it 2:36:27.280 --> 2:36:31.400 was like the end of June, where Uh Sean was, Gosh, 2:36:31.480 --> 2:36:35.080 I forget, I forget where he was in Japan. Um, 2:36:35.360 --> 2:36:39.640 but basically he was sort of like railing at the 2:36:39.920 --> 2:36:44.000 audience for supporting his mother, Hawk to Han uh, and 2:36:44.120 --> 2:36:47.240 then when people spoke up in defense of her, they 2:36:47.320 --> 2:36:51.240 were literally like physically thrown out of the room. Um, 2:36:51.480 --> 2:36:57.000 it was super intense. Yeah, there's yea, yeah, it's it's 2:36:57.040 --> 2:37:00.720 a really fucking intense moment. Um. And he's like they're 2:37:00.760 --> 2:37:03.400 saying she had like sex with a demon or something 2:37:03.520 --> 2:37:07.160 like that and has fallen and all of this. You know, God, 2:37:07.280 --> 2:37:09.400 like I don't know. Sometimes. I watched a bit of 2:37:09.440 --> 2:37:11.480 the guy's speeches just because I'm like, I want to 2:37:11.560 --> 2:37:15.560 know what the funk they're up to. Um. And first 2:37:15.640 --> 2:37:18.320 of all it seems like he might do a lot 2:37:18.360 --> 2:37:20.760 of cocaine, which would not be on the precedent had 2:37:20.800 --> 2:37:25.080 given the moonies and all of their drug smuggling and ship. Well, 2:37:25.240 --> 2:37:28.440 I mean we we have like, what was his name? I, 2:37:28.879 --> 2:37:32.120 Oh God, I'm blaming on the name of what? What? What? 2:37:32.280 --> 2:37:35.040 What of his other sons? was like it was like 2:37:35.200 --> 2:37:40.440 literally spending like a shell corporations, like net income amount 2:37:40.680 --> 2:37:43.840 like per month on cocaine. At one point, like was 2:37:43.920 --> 2:37:47.600 that he o Jen possibly? I think I think it was. Yeah, yeah, 2:37:47.640 --> 2:37:53.080 I think. Yeah. And he's also enormous abusive piece of ship. Yeah, yeah, 2:37:54.200 --> 2:37:59.840 it sucks. Yeah, people are all well, okay, that's not 2:38:00.360 --> 2:38:02.600 the people who are still actively involved in the church 2:38:02.640 --> 2:38:04.920 and who didn't break themselves out and flee like the 2:38:04.959 --> 2:38:09.880 first opportunity they got are like enormous pieces of ship. Yeah, 2:38:10.040 --> 2:38:11.440 I mean because like even at the end of the day, 2:38:11.440 --> 2:38:16.280 if they're not specifically doing anything that like directly harm somebody, 2:38:16.360 --> 2:38:19.840 they're giving money to these institutions that do into people 2:38:19.879 --> 2:38:25.200 who do and giving them support and, you know, reinforcing 2:38:25.280 --> 2:38:27.840 all of that ship. And then, you know, I mean 2:38:28.240 --> 2:38:30.520 most of them are just shitty in general too. Yeah, 2:38:31.080 --> 2:38:37.440 I also like specifically awesome about like, yeah, there there 2:38:37.680 --> 2:38:41.200 were a couple of people who like got forciably married 2:38:41.240 --> 2:38:44.880 into the family. Yeah, like left and I don't I 2:38:45.120 --> 2:38:47.080 do not want people to get to get the impression 2:38:47.160 --> 2:38:51.720 that I think they're bad, because they're not. Like they got, yeah, 2:38:51.879 --> 2:38:53.840 really horrible stuff happened to them. They're able to escape me. 2:38:53.920 --> 2:39:00.840 That's good, but also, Jesus Christ, like yeah, uh, and 2:39:01.000 --> 2:39:05.160 that's the thing that it's like sometimes hard to talk 2:39:05.320 --> 2:39:08.720 to like, you know, childhood friends or my family who's 2:39:08.760 --> 2:39:11.880 still involved, Um, because I feel like it's like, you know, 2:39:12.000 --> 2:39:15.680 if you're supporting this group, you're implicitly supporting fascism and 2:39:16.000 --> 2:39:20.240 murder and death squads and rape and all of these 2:39:20.280 --> 2:39:24.000 awful things. Um, and you know, a lot of members 2:39:24.080 --> 2:39:28.840 don't know that those bits of history about the church. Um, 2:39:29.280 --> 2:39:31.600 but if anyone who is listening is in the U C, 2:39:31.840 --> 2:39:34.400 I would definitely say to look those things up, because 2:39:34.480 --> 2:39:38.640 they are all over the place. Yeah, okay, so this 2:39:38.800 --> 2:39:43.039 was specifically. Yeah, I read inside the League by Scott 2:39:43.080 --> 2:39:50.720 and Lee Anderson. Okay, I I will say this. Yeah, 2:39:51.000 --> 2:39:58.600 there it is kind of hard to read because these 2:39:58.600 --> 2:40:02.480 people are journalists. They're not normally book authors, and the 2:40:02.640 --> 2:40:04.800 idea of starting at the beginning of a story and 2:40:04.840 --> 2:40:06.360 then moving through to the end of it is like 2:40:06.400 --> 2:40:10.760 an entirely foreign concept to them. So it is constantly 2:40:10.840 --> 2:40:15.120 jumping around between sixteen million things. But yeah, there is 2:40:15.120 --> 2:40:16.760 a lot of there's a lot of very good stuff 2:40:16.760 --> 2:40:21.120 in there. Yeah, it's an incredible resource. I would also 2:40:21.200 --> 2:40:26.720 suggest reading, uh, the there's like a a bunch of 2:40:26.840 --> 2:40:31.040 articles that Robert Parry did from his consortium news about 2:40:31.120 --> 2:40:33.280 do you see and like stuff back in the day 2:40:33.360 --> 2:40:36.320 on it. Um, I would also say check out how 2:40:36.400 --> 2:40:40.600 well do you know your moon? Uh. That's another great resource. 2:40:40.840 --> 2:40:44.200 Has a lot of you know, like links and direct 2:40:44.959 --> 2:40:49.160 citations of a bunch of documents and ship uh, all 2:40:49.240 --> 2:40:55.240 good stuff. Also, I would plug John Gorenfeld's book. Um, oh, 2:40:55.280 --> 2:40:59.200 it's called it's been bad, bad moon rising, bad moon rising. Yes, yeah, 2:40:59.280 --> 2:41:03.280 John is gray. He yeah, it's it's another really good 2:41:03.320 --> 2:41:05.720 book on that. Yeah, I think there's a new edition 2:41:05.800 --> 2:41:08.360 came out like very recently. Yeah, so I think he 2:41:08.520 --> 2:41:10.640 has it, actually a pdf of it or something for 2:41:10.760 --> 2:41:14.320 free on his website. Um, yeah, uh. And then another 2:41:14.360 --> 2:41:18.200 book I would suggest is gifts of deceit about the 2:41:18.240 --> 2:41:24.280 Thompson Park Scandal and care a gate. Another good one. God. Yeah, 2:41:25.760 --> 2:41:29.480 the thing about the MoD is like there's just like 2:41:30.000 --> 2:41:34.640 entire like there's entire genres of like crime that they 2:41:34.760 --> 2:41:39.440 do that like doesn't even like make most accounts of 2:41:39.520 --> 2:41:42.760 them because they're doing too much other crime. Yeah, literally, 2:41:42.840 --> 2:41:45.840 there's just so much crime too for there isn't just 2:41:45.920 --> 2:41:48.040 done so much that it's hard to keep track of everything. 2:41:48.959 --> 2:41:52.279 They literally have a million shell corporations and they literally 2:41:52.360 --> 2:41:55.680 do things unser different names and in different places and 2:41:55.760 --> 2:41:58.320 then different types of atrocities that it's like how are 2:41:58.360 --> 2:42:00.400 you supposed to keep up with all this? That's why 2:42:00.480 --> 2:42:02.160 they do it that way, because you're not supposed to. 2:42:02.400 --> 2:42:05.880 But yeah, I mean it is, I don't know, like 2:42:09.520 --> 2:42:13.200 figuring out how intelligence operations work is like easier than 2:42:13.320 --> 2:42:17.120 like trying to untangle this ship. Yeah, honestly like that that. 2:42:17.360 --> 2:42:20.680 That stuff was, you know, a little more on the nose. 2:42:20.800 --> 2:42:22.840 It's like, Oh yeah, clearly this is like a joint 2:42:22.879 --> 2:42:27.040 psychological operation and other like, you know, back channels for 2:42:27.200 --> 2:42:30.720 money and trafficking things and people and stuff. But then 2:42:30.760 --> 2:42:34.480 it's like, Oh God, What Company owns what? And how 2:42:34.600 --> 2:42:37.200 much do they make and like where do they move 2:42:37.280 --> 2:42:41.360 their money around? It's just like, I don't know. That's 2:42:41.480 --> 2:42:45.240 that side is like, how do I navigate this? Yeah, 2:42:46.400 --> 2:42:49.280 so I am extremely fortunate to be a part of 2:42:49.360 --> 2:42:52.480 a group of people who's working on this stuff. Now, Um, 2:42:53.959 --> 2:42:57.120 you know, we're gonna what we're going to try to 2:42:57.200 --> 2:42:59.959 do is sort of make like a Unification Church wikipedia 2:43:00.080 --> 2:43:02.440 kind of thing so that we have like all of 2:43:02.480 --> 2:43:04.600 it in one place and then, you know, potentially down 2:43:04.640 --> 2:43:06.400 the line maybe do like a people's history of the 2:43:06.480 --> 2:43:10.320 Unification Church or something like that, but in the meantime 2:43:10.400 --> 2:43:14.280 we're just compiling a bunch of information. Yeah, are there 2:43:14.320 --> 2:43:17.320 ways people can support you? And it also can support 2:43:17.360 --> 2:43:21.080 deprogramming imperialism in this the work you all have been doing. Yeah, 2:43:21.240 --> 2:43:24.640 so I have a patreon. It's a Lisa Majub a 2:43:24.920 --> 2:43:27.160 L I S A M A H J O U 2:43:27.280 --> 2:43:31.240 B uh. You can follow me on twitter at Alisa 2:43:31.400 --> 2:43:37.640 Underscore Majub same spelling. Uh. deprogramming imperialism has a twitter. Uh, 2:43:38.000 --> 2:43:41.320 it is, since deprogramming imperialism was not. was too long 2:43:41.440 --> 2:43:44.400 to put in as a user name. The one we 2:43:44.720 --> 2:43:49.240 are using is no more cults, which is no underscore, 2:43:49.400 --> 2:43:54.879 more underscore cults, Um. And then we have a instagram 2:43:55.120 --> 2:43:58.760 as well, under deprogramming imperialism, I believe. Let me double check, 2:44:01.760 --> 2:44:06.840 M Hm, and we will. We will put links to 2:44:06.879 --> 2:44:13.960 all this stuff in the show notes. Yeah, awesome, cool, cool, cool. Yeah, 2:44:14.000 --> 2:44:21.039 it's do programming imperialism. Just together, together words. Sorry, it's 2:44:21.120 --> 2:44:27.320 just not working. The words are smashed together. There's no space. 2:44:27.480 --> 2:44:34.240 That's that's. There we go. I did it. Yeah, well, 2:44:34.320 --> 2:44:35.960 I I think. I think. I think that's going to 2:44:36.000 --> 2:44:38.600 be all for us today. Um, thank you so so 2:44:38.760 --> 2:44:41.600 much for joining us. Thank you for having me. I 2:44:41.680 --> 2:44:44.880 really appreciate this and hopefully, you know, this will just 2:44:45.959 --> 2:44:48.840 have helped more people to sort of like understand what's 2:44:48.879 --> 2:44:50.680 going on there and sort of the history of the 2:44:50.800 --> 2:44:52.960 U C and uh, as well as, you know, maybe 2:44:52.959 --> 2:44:56.280 shine some light on the obbeys assassination and UH. You know, 2:44:56.800 --> 2:44:59.320 the more people who know about this, the better, I think. Um, 2:44:59.400 --> 2:45:02.600 so I really she ate being on here because you 2:45:02.640 --> 2:45:04.680 guys have a pretty big platform. So that means a 2:45:04.720 --> 2:45:07.879 lot to me. Yeah, and I'm I'm I'm really I'm really, 2:45:07.920 --> 2:45:11.320 really glad that that you came on for this, because 2:45:12.400 --> 2:45:15.760 I don't know, like it's it's really like it's really 2:45:15.800 --> 2:45:18.360 easy to like cover stuff like this and just never 2:45:19.640 --> 2:45:22.200 actually sort of like get to the human, like the 2:45:22.280 --> 2:45:27.000 actual human impact of it. Yeah, and so, yeah, I'm 2:45:27.040 --> 2:45:29.560 really glad I was able to talk to you. Thank you. 2:45:29.720 --> 2:45:31.760 I yeah, I'm glad I was able to talk to 2:45:31.879 --> 2:45:33.880 because that it was fun. It was fun, it was 2:45:33.959 --> 2:45:37.360 informative and getting the word out. We're doing it, we're 2:45:37.400 --> 2:45:52.760 doing the thing. Yeah, yeah, it feels good. On pictures 2:45:52.800 --> 2:45:55.880 of Alexandrow dooking moments after his daughter exploded in a 2:45:56.000 --> 2:46:03.720 car bomb. Again, I don't have any problems beating puppies. 2:46:04.440 --> 2:46:08.480 Oh No, this is recorded. Welcome to it could happen here, 2:46:08.560 --> 2:46:14.400 the podcast where Garrettson Davis is fine with violence against dogs. Yeah, right, 2:46:14.480 --> 2:46:23.480 as wow, cancellable, cancellable. deathly allergic to dogs, but they 2:46:23.560 --> 2:46:26.280 love you so much. So if people were people were 2:46:26.320 --> 2:46:28.800 going to pick an assassination method for me just to 2:46:29.080 --> 2:46:31.440 get a whole bunch of dog Dander and rub it 2:46:31.520 --> 2:46:33.400 on my pillow and I'll be dead with I'll be 2:46:33.480 --> 2:46:35.840 dead the next morning. I've I've seen you get rubbed 2:46:35.879 --> 2:46:37.840 on by a bunch of dogs and you've you've never 2:46:37.959 --> 2:46:41.920 died yet. No, yeah, that's get uncomfortable and you have 2:46:42.000 --> 2:46:44.440 to use your inhaler and it's you know, but I don't. 2:46:44.520 --> 2:46:47.480 I just I just ignore that. You get uncomfortable and 2:46:47.600 --> 2:46:50.400 you have to use your in Halor. Robert's like, that's great, 2:46:50.480 --> 2:46:54.680 I'm super thrilled with that outcome. You know what? Other 2:46:54.879 --> 2:47:05.640 outcome I'm thrilled with. Oh good, so sick. Transition. So 2:47:06.080 --> 2:47:12.000 we are talking about the assassination of Alexander Dugan's daughter. It's, 2:47:12.160 --> 2:47:14.640 it's a it's a it's it's kind of a wild story. 2:47:14.800 --> 2:47:17.480 There's a lot of weird things going on. We still 2:47:17.600 --> 2:47:21.960 don't know much about what actually happened. Um, there's a 2:47:22.000 --> 2:47:24.600 lot of conflicting theories, a lot of experts who are 2:47:24.640 --> 2:47:29.320 saying different things. Quote Unquote experts who are saying different things. Uh, 2:47:29.480 --> 2:47:31.680 it's it's wild. But I have a little right up 2:47:31.680 --> 2:47:33.920 here that we're going to go through based on what 2:47:34.000 --> 2:47:38.400 I assume everyone's questions will be about this assassination. UH, 2:47:38.680 --> 2:47:41.800 first thing, probably before we before we get into Alexander 2:47:41.840 --> 2:47:45.640 Dugan's daughter. I guess it's probably worth clarifying who Alexander 2:47:45.680 --> 2:47:49.520 Dugan is because to understand the nature of this assassination 2:47:49.600 --> 2:47:53.360 and possible motives, it's important to know who he is 2:47:53.440 --> 2:47:56.360 as a person. So I know we've talked about Dugan 2:47:56.440 --> 2:47:59.720 on the show before kind of briefly, but Alexander Dugan 2:47:59.840 --> 2:48:05.440 is Russian traditionalist, neo fascist, political theorist. Um. Some people 2:48:05.480 --> 2:48:12.760 call him a philosopher. I think that's being a little generous. Son. Yeah, yeah, 2:48:15.320 --> 2:48:18.280 he was born in nineteen sixty two into a high 2:48:18.320 --> 2:48:21.760 ranking military family and a Dugan spent his early years 2:48:22.000 --> 2:48:26.000 as an anti communist dissident in the collapsing Soviet Union. 2:48:27.240 --> 2:48:32.560 He joined various dissident ultra nationalist, occult Andy Semitic and 2:48:32.800 --> 2:48:36.039 Fascist groups or collectives that sprung up during the last 2:48:36.400 --> 2:48:39.560 two decades of the Soviet Union. Uh, in the nineties 2:48:39.800 --> 2:48:42.480 he was one of the founders of the Russian National 2:48:42.560 --> 2:48:46.480 Bolshevik Party, which he left in the late nineties because 2:48:46.600 --> 2:48:49.760 the party was not fascist enough. Um. So he he 2:48:49.920 --> 2:48:53.080 left the political party he helped, he helped start because 2:48:53.240 --> 2:48:56.480 it was it had too many of the Bolshevik parts 2:48:56.760 --> 2:49:01.360 of the National Bolshevik Party. Um, he, he, kind of 2:49:01.520 --> 2:49:06.040 carries on some of the traditionalist political philosophy from Twentieth 2:49:06.040 --> 2:49:10.200 Century Esoteric Fascist writers like Julius Cevola, whose book on 2:49:10.440 --> 2:49:15.199 Pagan Imperialism Dugan translated into Russian, just as a brief 2:49:15.240 --> 2:49:19.800 bit of context for people. Now you know they're fascism 2:49:19.920 --> 2:49:23.920 and communism are are portrayed as in strict, strict opposition 2:49:24.000 --> 2:49:25.520 to each other. But if we're going back to the 2:49:25.560 --> 2:49:28.400 twenties and thirties, a lot of these guys had a 2:49:28.480 --> 2:49:30.400 lot of things in common. There were times where the 2:49:30.440 --> 2:49:33.040 Communist Party of Germany and the Nazis would fight the 2:49:33.120 --> 2:49:37.640 cops together. Um, there were people in the Nazi party 2:49:37.720 --> 2:49:41.000 who were more or less national bolsheviks in terms of 2:49:41.040 --> 2:49:44.080 their political outlook. Um, and they were all murdered on 2:49:44.160 --> 2:49:46.480 the night of long knives. Like the Nazi party had 2:49:46.520 --> 2:49:48.720 a left wing that it purged. Anyway. This is just like, 2:49:49.080 --> 2:49:51.040 this is not coming out of nowhere, this isn't a 2:49:51.080 --> 2:49:53.600 new development. Well, and the thing with Dugan is that 2:49:53.720 --> 2:49:56.000 he really is does carry on that type of Red 2:49:56.080 --> 2:49:59.240 Brown alliance idea with a lot of his politics of 2:49:59.520 --> 2:50:02.920 of of bringing together some of the more harder fascists 2:50:03.440 --> 2:50:07.600 with some people who are more like authoritarian Communists, Um, 2:50:07.760 --> 2:50:10.520 and we see that with the National Bolshevik party at 2:50:10.560 --> 2:50:14.400 this point. Dugan is probably most known for his influence 2:50:14.520 --> 2:50:21.160 on Contemporary Russian politics, the NEO Eurasianism ideology, his writing 2:50:21.320 --> 2:50:24.199 on the multi pole or world theory and his fourth 2:50:24.240 --> 2:50:28.640 political theory about the ascension of Russia as the world's 2:50:28.680 --> 2:50:32.680 like traditionalist political power, Um, and usurping the kind of 2:50:33.120 --> 2:50:38.879 political dominance of the United States. And Dugan's Neo Eurasianism 2:50:39.040 --> 2:50:44.240 is described by Antonov, an eastern European far right scholar, as, quote, 2:50:44.640 --> 2:50:47.360 a form of Fascist ideology centered on the idea of 2:50:47.440 --> 2:50:52.280 revolutionizing the Russian society and building a tolitarian, Russian dominated 2:50:52.400 --> 2:50:57.480 Eurasian Empire that would challenge and eventually defeat its eternal adversary, 2:50:57.560 --> 2:51:02.520 represented by the United States and it's atlanticist allies, less 2:51:02.520 --> 2:51:06.240 springing about a new golden age of global political and 2:51:06.400 --> 2:51:13.000 cultural illiberalism, unquote. So it's it's very centered in just 2:51:13.160 --> 2:51:17.440 being against the ideas of liberalism and being against like 2:51:18.080 --> 2:51:23.480 globalist liberalism, like actual like globalization, Um, and still carrying 2:51:23.520 --> 2:51:26.680 over a lot of influences from esoteric writers like Julias 2:51:26.680 --> 2:51:29.720 Seviola in terms of like kids, anti modern, anti liberal 2:51:30.640 --> 2:51:37.879 politics based in like traditional, anti multicultural right, like this this. Yeah, yeah, 2:51:38.120 --> 2:51:40.000 a lot of if you've ever seen someone screaming about 2:51:40.000 --> 2:51:43.840 like Global Homo or something like, that's probably one of 2:51:43.920 --> 2:51:48.200 these guys. Yeah, and that that Dugan's daughter actually, in 2:51:48.320 --> 2:51:50.800 her last ever interview, talks about that a little bit 2:51:50.959 --> 2:51:56.560 and we're yeah, yeah, like the like. There's there's there's 2:51:56.640 --> 2:51:58.440 there's a lot of people in the US who like 2:51:58.680 --> 2:52:01.360 see this ship and like this take it for anti imperialism, 2:52:01.440 --> 2:52:04.680 and it's basically because like they've lost the ability to 2:52:04.800 --> 2:52:08.680 like conceive of an empire that isn't the US, Britain 2:52:08.760 --> 2:52:12.320 or France, and even that's tenuous, and it's like guys 2:52:12.560 --> 2:52:14.840 like from a lot of these civil accounts, you get 2:52:14.840 --> 2:52:17.240 the attitude that, like, well, only the United States is 2:52:17.280 --> 2:52:20.480 capable of being imperialism, which is then just then just 2:52:20.600 --> 2:52:23.600 say you're anti us, just say you're anti the United States, 2:52:23.640 --> 2:52:27.000 because you're not anti imperialism, because, let me tell you something, 2:52:27.480 --> 2:52:32.240 there's been a lot of empires in history. Controversial statement 2:52:32.280 --> 2:52:36.879 from Robert Evans. Quite quite a few different empires over time. 2:52:37.280 --> 2:52:40.960 They're not all. America press probably worth like pointing out 2:52:41.000 --> 2:52:43.680 the Russia asset exists. Is An empire, right, it's just 2:52:43.800 --> 2:52:48.520 a contiguous one. It's it's one that that is joined 2:52:48.600 --> 2:52:52.360 by land separated by seas. Doesn't still be being an empire? Yes, 2:52:53.440 --> 2:52:55.360 as as we can see, with them trying to expand 2:52:55.360 --> 2:52:59.000 into Ukraine, which is heavily influenced itself by some of 2:52:59.160 --> 2:53:02.560 the theory that Dugan was writing from the nineties up 2:53:02.600 --> 2:53:05.560 until now, Um and then, kind of in reference to 2:53:05.640 --> 2:53:10.120 Dugan's influence on contemporary Russian politics, especially since Russia's so 2:53:10.240 --> 2:53:14.160 far failed invasion of Ukraine, Dugan is often referred to 2:53:14.280 --> 2:53:19.680 as quote unquote, Putin's brain or, quote unquote, Putin's Resputin Um. 2:53:20.080 --> 2:53:25.400 And while he is connected and has and while he 2:53:25.600 --> 2:53:27.800 is certainly well connected and has quite a bit of 2:53:27.879 --> 2:53:30.920 influence in Russia and the global far right movement in general, 2:53:31.600 --> 2:53:35.240 the degree to which he holds significant power in the 2:53:35.360 --> 2:53:40.640 decisions that Putin makes is definitely heavily contested among actual 2:53:40.680 --> 2:53:45.240 political experts. We think some of the whole Putin's brain 2:53:45.320 --> 2:53:48.480 and Putin's like resputent thing is a little bit over emphasis, 2:53:48.879 --> 2:53:53.240 over emphasized with sometimes Dugan's never held office. There's Dan 2:53:54.480 --> 2:53:56.680 Dugan's never we we, we, we don't even have a 2:53:56.760 --> 2:53:59.880 picture of Dugan and Putin together, like we don't even 2:54:00.000 --> 2:54:02.760 oh they've actually like been in the same room. We 2:54:02.800 --> 2:54:08.280 don't know if the same person, the same person. Yes, 2:54:08.840 --> 2:54:12.560 that's correct, Chris. The thing that is important to know 2:54:12.680 --> 2:54:16.440 about Putin as regards Dugan because again, as garrison said, 2:54:16.760 --> 2:54:19.039 not trying to make a statement here about the degree, 2:54:19.440 --> 2:54:21.360 like saying that he is or is not any kind 2:54:21.440 --> 2:54:24.959 of influence. But Vladimir Putin has been doing this, has 2:54:25.000 --> 2:54:28.480 been working towards the where he is now for decades 2:54:29.160 --> 2:54:31.200 and is a guy who has had a view of 2:54:31.320 --> 2:54:35.400 the world for decades that he's worked towards making real 2:54:36.040 --> 2:54:37.560 um and it's not a view of the world that 2:54:37.640 --> 2:54:40.440 you need to be. Dugan's an esotericist, like you do 2:54:40.560 --> 2:54:43.160 not need to think Esoteric Lee to understand what Vladimir 2:54:43.200 --> 2:54:46.560 Putin is doing. He wants to reunite the Russian imperial 2:54:46.720 --> 2:54:49.680 project that fell apart when the Soviet Union did, using 2:54:49.840 --> 2:54:52.280 violence and whatever other means he can do, which is 2:54:52.680 --> 2:54:55.840 why he's gone done what he's done in Georgia. Um 2:54:56.000 --> 2:54:58.440 It's why he's done doing what he's doing in Ukraine. 2:54:58.480 --> 2:55:01.360 This is not like complicated and Standing Putin's motivations are 2:55:01.520 --> 2:55:03.680 is not hard. You know, I think a lot of 2:55:03.760 --> 2:55:07.680 people have kind of leaned into that Putin's brain thing, 2:55:07.800 --> 2:55:11.080 especially since the invasion of Ukraine, because in in Dugan's 2:55:11.360 --> 2:55:16.040 seminal nineteen nineties seven book, the foundations of geopolitics, Dugan 2:55:16.120 --> 2:55:19.760 lays out his vision to divide the world up and 2:55:19.920 --> 2:55:24.920 calling for Russia to rebuild this influence through annexations and alliances. Well, 2:55:25.160 --> 2:55:29.520 all in a heavy opposition to Ukraine as a sovereign state, 2:55:29.600 --> 2:55:32.000 and a lot of Dugan's writing has been about trying 2:55:32.040 --> 2:55:36.160 to reconquer Ukraine and absorb it into Russia. Um, yeah, 2:55:36.240 --> 2:55:39.520 and he's a useful guy, but yeah, I guess. And 2:55:39.640 --> 2:55:43.560 and like the the in an article from the from 2:55:43.600 --> 2:55:46.800 the Guardian, that I was I was using for one 2:55:46.840 --> 2:55:49.600 of the sources for this episode. They they claim that 2:55:49.879 --> 2:55:53.720 the foundations of geopolitics was a very popular book in 2:55:53.760 --> 2:55:57.360 the Russian General Staff Academy Um and kind of was. 2:55:57.879 --> 2:56:01.120 Was One of the things that shifted Dugan from like 2:56:01.200 --> 2:56:05.640 a weird esoteric dissident to actually becoming a more influential 2:56:05.879 --> 2:56:10.040 and prominent pillar of the conservative establishment inside Russia. Um, 2:56:10.240 --> 2:56:14.200 as as Dugan's writing evolved, started to emphasize less, the 2:56:14.320 --> 2:56:18.400 more esoteric elements his writing did, did get more popular 2:56:18.440 --> 2:56:21.640 in Russia. Um, but at this point he is stronger 2:56:21.720 --> 2:56:25.280 as a symbol, uh less so than having actual personal 2:56:25.360 --> 2:56:28.920 influence over decision making. You know what does have influence 2:56:29.000 --> 2:56:32.879 of your decision making? They have influence of your decision making. 2:56:33.160 --> 2:56:36.920 You're you're the sub the subliminal messages that we've been 2:56:36.959 --> 2:56:41.040 placing insider ads for the past three years. Um. That 2:56:41.280 --> 2:56:43.920 leads that that has been an esotary project, of of 2:56:44.080 --> 2:56:46.720 of my design to to influence you to buy these 2:56:46.760 --> 2:56:50.120 products and services. That's right, James, I'm I'm trying to 2:56:50.720 --> 2:56:53.000 I think we have a couple of different esoteric projects. 2:56:53.000 --> 2:56:55.080 I'm not sure what Y'alls is. I'm trying to get 2:56:55.120 --> 2:56:57.600 people to bring the Subaru Baja back. That was the 2:56:57.640 --> 2:57:00.800 super a little truck. Bet in the back it was 2:57:01.040 --> 2:57:06.240 the my God, how can yeah, I was gonna come 2:57:06.280 --> 2:57:08.760 speaking of one word, but I realized when that was 2:57:08.840 --> 2:57:11.800 taking me and I stared up to me. It is 2:57:11.840 --> 2:57:14.240 a cup. Yeah, it is a cuck. It's my second 2:57:14.280 --> 2:57:17.800 favorite cup. Why didn't they call it the Superu cuck, 2:57:17.920 --> 2:57:24.120 and I would buy one immediately. Yeah, the Super Yah, 2:57:24.240 --> 2:57:29.120 please buy, please, by Super Cuck. Enjoy these adverts and 2:57:29.360 --> 2:57:32.920 we're back. All right, so let's I think it's now 2:57:32.959 --> 2:57:38.080 actually time to talk about the the actual casualty, this assassination, 2:57:38.920 --> 2:57:46.600 which is got Alexander Dugan instead Daria, Daria dead, Gaina 2:57:46.720 --> 2:57:50.840 more like it. Yeah, so she was. She was. She 2:57:50.959 --> 2:57:58.879 was born on December fift Daria herself was a Russian 2:57:58.920 --> 2:58:02.400 journalist and far right activist who was very vocal in 2:58:02.520 --> 2:58:06.000 support of their journalists. Well, I mean yeah, she, she. 2:58:06.480 --> 2:58:09.400 She did work for a number of journalists, of journalism outlets, 2:58:09.440 --> 2:58:12.080 not only Russia, including in France, like she she, she did. 2:58:12.520 --> 2:58:15.840 She was a journalist. Um, she did work. It wasn't 2:58:15.920 --> 2:58:19.520 very good. She's a bad person, um, but she worked 2:58:19.560 --> 2:58:22.600 for a few French outlets. Um, she was very vocal 2:58:22.720 --> 2:58:25.080 in support of the invasion of Ukraine. In accordance with 2:58:25.160 --> 2:58:29.880 her father's political theories. She studied at the Moscow State University, 2:58:29.920 --> 2:58:33.960 specializing in the political philosophy of late Neo platonism. So 2:58:34.080 --> 2:58:37.400 you already know she's going to be really annoying. Anyone 2:58:37.520 --> 2:58:41.080 if it tries to describe that degree program to me, 2:58:41.280 --> 2:58:46.800 I might hit them like absolutely no, yea, we, we, we, we, we, we. 2:58:46.959 --> 2:58:50.000 We have, in that one sentence alone, laid out justification 2:58:50.120 --> 2:58:55.280 for assassination. Okay, well, okay, come on, I think I 2:58:55.360 --> 2:58:59.200 think that's a bit too far. I'm gonna say right 2:58:59.240 --> 2:59:03.040 now bought property with land so that when people say 2:59:03.120 --> 2:59:05.960 the word Neo platonism around me I can get rid 2:59:06.000 --> 2:59:10.800 of the body. So, Um, here's some fun facts about 2:59:11.560 --> 2:59:15.960 about Daria. She played the flute. Um, she was, she 2:59:16.120 --> 2:59:18.959 was in her she was in a band, I think 2:59:19.040 --> 2:59:23.960 in college, uh, called Dason may refuse, which was an 2:59:23.959 --> 2:59:29.440 electronic music band. Now, Dason did actually rock. It probably 2:59:29.480 --> 2:59:32.440 did slaugh of I mean like and this. And this 2:59:32.640 --> 2:59:35.520 was when she was less of a fascist actually. Um, now, 2:59:36.000 --> 2:59:39.160 just in terms of something that kind of an interesting 2:59:39.240 --> 2:59:44.440 note here. So dason translates to here, being, which was, 2:59:44.720 --> 2:59:48.440 which is one of Alexander Dugan's favorite favorite terms. It's 2:59:48.520 --> 2:59:57.440 it's related to the philosophical concepts, uh, upposed by Martin Heideger. Yes, uh, so, it's. 2:59:57.520 --> 3:00:00.440 It's just a little nerdy reference to both her father. 3:00:00.800 --> 3:00:02.959 I guess she was probably exposed to the phrase via 3:00:03.040 --> 3:00:06.039 her father, but it's a hideger reference. So she named 3:00:06.320 --> 3:00:11.080 her electronic music band off of hider. If you're tried 3:00:11.160 --> 3:00:14.840 to kill her ghost now, which is pretty funny. Yeah, yeah, 3:00:14.920 --> 3:00:16.640 if you're in a band with a hiding a reference 3:00:16.640 --> 3:00:21.400 to leave that band now. But but yeah, when she 3:00:21.560 --> 3:00:24.880 when she was in the university, her friends say she 3:00:25.040 --> 3:00:28.360 actually she actually wasn't really into her dad or her 3:00:28.480 --> 3:00:32.560 dad's politics. Um, her her friends talk about that. When 3:00:32.600 --> 3:00:35.240 she when she was in university, she really liked Um, 3:00:36.040 --> 3:00:39.080 guide to board. Um, she was interested in some of 3:00:39.160 --> 3:00:43.640 the more yeah, like just just quickly, it's like a 3:00:43.760 --> 3:00:46.440 lot of popular stuff on the left now ship like 3:00:46.520 --> 3:00:49.840 a crime thing, but also stuff like Um, AD busters 3:00:49.959 --> 3:00:52.000 is influenced by guide to boy. Yeah, I mean also 3:00:52.080 --> 3:01:02.960 like the French Revolution in yeah, to for hundred and 3:01:03.040 --> 3:01:07.000 twenty years and never aged. He was also, I will 3:01:07.040 --> 3:01:08.520 say this is a thing a lot of people don't 3:01:08.520 --> 3:01:11.320 know about. The board was influential in the development of 3:01:11.400 --> 3:01:14.400 war games and and is part of the intellectual tradition 3:01:14.480 --> 3:01:17.840 that gave us warhammer. That that that actually makes a 3:01:17.920 --> 3:01:22.480 lot of sense. It makes it. It makes complete sense. Yeah, yeah, 3:01:23.000 --> 3:01:25.040 but but yeah, so she was. She was into stuff 3:01:25.080 --> 3:01:34.000 like that inside and yeah, I don't think. I don't 3:01:34.040 --> 3:01:36.720 think she would have described herself as that. Um, but 3:01:36.840 --> 3:01:39.080 that was the types of stuff that she liked talking 3:01:39.120 --> 3:01:41.600 about and that was the types of groups that she 3:01:41.800 --> 3:01:44.640 was involved with. She she never talked about her father 3:01:44.760 --> 3:01:47.480 and her father was already a very popular um person 3:01:47.560 --> 3:01:51.600 at this time, specifically inside Russian universities. But she she was. 3:01:51.840 --> 3:01:54.960 She did not drive with that type of stuff. Um. 3:01:55.400 --> 3:01:57.720 And then by by the end of her kind of 3:01:57.959 --> 3:02:01.280 time in university, she started shift doing more towards what 3:02:01.400 --> 3:02:04.680 her friends described as orthodoxy. Um. I would say it's 3:02:04.720 --> 3:02:07.360 like she s shod more towards her father's traditionalist stuff. 3:02:07.720 --> 3:02:11.480 I'm not sure what exactly caused this shift to happen, Um, 3:02:11.920 --> 3:02:14.280 but here's a quote from one of her friends. Quote. 3:02:14.520 --> 3:02:17.720 It was strange because before that she has not shown 3:02:17.720 --> 3:02:20.439 any interest in him and her father had no influence 3:02:20.520 --> 3:02:26.880 on her. Um. And it's so, yeah, something by the 3:02:27.080 --> 3:02:29.160 by the end she by the by the end of 3:02:29.400 --> 3:02:31.360 her time in university and she got and by the 3:02:31.440 --> 3:02:34.280 time she was out of university, Um, she actually just 3:02:34.360 --> 3:02:37.800 became an activist with the International Eurasianism movement of do 3:02:37.920 --> 3:02:42.520 again and began to arrange lectures for her father and 3:02:43.240 --> 3:02:46.920 became a very active supporter of his, and then after 3:02:47.120 --> 3:02:49.600 that she started writing for state run news outlets like 3:02:49.840 --> 3:02:53.040 rt and running parts of her father's website, where she 3:02:53.400 --> 3:02:57.000 was then listed as his press secretary, and started to 3:02:57.080 --> 3:03:00.040 appear at the events of the Eurasian Movement as a 3:03:00.080 --> 3:03:03.760 speaker as well. So she she shifted in like the 3:03:03.879 --> 3:03:09.360 last like probably ten fifteen years past, like ten years 3:03:09.640 --> 3:03:12.800 she was shifting more towards her father, even though when 3:03:12.879 --> 3:03:15.200 she was in her twenties she was more into some 3:03:15.360 --> 3:03:18.600 of the French leftist stuff. That doesn't surprise number one, 3:03:18.640 --> 3:03:22.240 it's pretty normal for young people to rebel against their 3:03:22.280 --> 3:03:25.240 parents and that era and be interested in stuff outside 3:03:25.240 --> 3:03:27.680 of it. And like, I think there's a couple of 3:03:27.720 --> 3:03:29.440 different ways this could have gone, but the thing that 3:03:29.520 --> 3:03:32.760 makes total sense to me is that she's rebellious. She 3:03:32.959 --> 3:03:36.680 explores some things. The primary things she learns is that 3:03:36.840 --> 3:03:39.080 life out there is hard and like making a living 3:03:39.160 --> 3:03:42.879 on your own and completely like is difficult and her 3:03:42.959 --> 3:03:44.840 dad has a lot of influence and she can make 3:03:44.840 --> 3:03:46.720 a lot of money working for him. And so back 3:03:46.959 --> 3:03:50.320 back she goes. I don't know, I don't know. She lost. 3:03:50.440 --> 3:03:52.240 She lost a lot of her friends over this because 3:03:52.480 --> 3:03:54.520 when she started doing stuff with her dad, her friends 3:03:54.600 --> 3:03:57.640 were like situations. People are like no fun that, we're 3:03:57.640 --> 3:04:03.039 not going to hang out with you. It seems like yeah, it's, it's, 3:04:03.040 --> 3:04:05.480 it's it's kind of actually a bomber. Like I, I only, 3:04:05.600 --> 3:04:07.560 I only, I only got to this part of her 3:04:07.640 --> 3:04:09.920 life um a few days ago when I was doing 3:04:09.959 --> 3:04:12.520 the research, and this is actually something I stumbled upon 3:04:12.680 --> 3:04:15.040 later into my research for this episode because I was 3:04:15.320 --> 3:04:18.160 nasally I was momly focused on the actual assassination part 3:04:18.560 --> 3:04:20.120 Um and I when I found this, I was like, oh, 3:04:20.320 --> 3:04:23.680 that's actually kind of sad. Yeah, I will say I 3:04:24.200 --> 3:04:27.480 don't know if this is at work here, but there 3:04:27.680 --> 3:04:30.600 is a thing in like there is a current in 3:04:30.640 --> 3:04:34.080 the French altip left like after sixty eight going into 3:04:34.120 --> 3:04:37.240 the seventies and eighties that gets like really fucking weird 3:04:37.959 --> 3:04:42.400 and kind of ghost fascist based around it's it's a 3:04:42.440 --> 3:04:44.600 long story. Where there there there's a whole thing about 3:04:44.640 --> 3:04:46.480 a guy who was like sort of involved in the 3:04:46.520 --> 3:04:49.880 alto left circles who was like I think he'd been 3:04:49.920 --> 3:04:52.480 in he'd been in a concentration camp, but he'd been 3:04:52.520 --> 3:04:54.680 in one of the ones that like wasn't an extermination 3:04:54.760 --> 3:04:57.480 camp and he started doing like Holocaust denial. And there's 3:04:57.480 --> 3:04:59.080 like this whole fucking thing where like a bunch of 3:04:59.200 --> 3:05:03.400 these people kind of went really, like, went really fucking weird. 3:05:03.600 --> 3:05:05.160 The rest of people, like the rest of also left 3:05:05.200 --> 3:05:07.600 to own them and like they like. We're kind of 3:05:07.680 --> 3:05:09.480 involved a bunch of the sort of like the like 3:05:09.840 --> 3:05:12.800 founding the French neo fascism. I mean, it's not like. 3:05:13.080 --> 3:05:15.280 It's not it's not a path that has never happened before. 3:05:15.480 --> 3:05:18.400 That's not coming out of nowhere, especially when your father 3:05:18.640 --> 3:05:21.400 is who he is. That's not that's not surprising. So 3:05:22.120 --> 3:05:24.360 when she started, so, yeah, and in the past few 3:05:24.440 --> 3:05:28.119 years she started acting as her father's press secretary, scheduling 3:05:28.680 --> 3:05:31.480 events for him. She was doing she was doing more 3:05:31.840 --> 3:05:35.720 writing on her own, Um, in various outlets, including state 3:05:35.840 --> 3:05:38.960 run outlets, but also outlets in other countries. Um, but 3:05:39.200 --> 3:05:42.880 definitely shifting more towards the kind of traditionalist durationism, Um 3:05:43.840 --> 3:05:47.440 side of politics. Earlier this year she was sanctioned by 3:05:47.480 --> 3:05:52.200 both US and UK authorities, who under under accusations that 3:05:52.400 --> 3:05:57.039 she was significantly contributing to online disinformation around Russia's invasion 3:05:57.760 --> 3:06:00.680 Um and in an interview just to few months before 3:06:00.720 --> 3:06:03.920 her death, Daria expressed pride that both she and her 3:06:03.959 --> 3:06:06.760 father had been targeted by Western sanctions. That kind of 3:06:06.959 --> 3:06:08.320 she kind of a board, as like as like a 3:06:08.360 --> 3:06:13.200 badge of honor Um and imperialism. In it's filing, the 3:06:13.320 --> 3:06:18.200 UK office of financial sanctions called duging a frequent, high 3:06:18.280 --> 3:06:22.480 profile contributor of disinformation in relation to Ukraine and the 3:06:22.560 --> 3:06:26.400 Russia invasion of Ukraine on various online platforms. And to 3:06:26.920 --> 3:06:29.600 get a sense of how she actually politically described herself 3:06:30.160 --> 3:06:33.720 in the months before her death. In an interview from May, 3:06:35.120 --> 3:06:38.200 she described herself as, quote, a political observer of the 3:06:38.280 --> 3:06:42.800 International Eurasianist Movement and an expert in international relations. My 3:06:42.920 --> 3:06:45.959 field of activity is in the analysis of European politics 3:06:46.040 --> 3:06:52.520 and geopolitics. In this capacity, I appear on Russian, Pakistani, Turkish, 3:06:52.879 --> 3:06:57.480 Chinese and Indian television channels, presenting a multipolar world view 3:06:57.840 --> 3:07:02.240 of political processes form. A particularly important issue is the 3:07:02.320 --> 3:07:06.080 development of the multipolar world theory. It is clear that 3:07:06.200 --> 3:07:10.000 the globalist movement is over and the end of liberalism 3:07:10.160 --> 3:07:15.360 has come, the end of liberal history, unquote. So and 3:07:15.560 --> 3:07:19.160 and guess, and guess what she thinks is going to 3:07:19.280 --> 3:07:23.360 replace liberal history. It's it's just I have some theories. 3:07:23.560 --> 3:07:28.800 It's Orthodox, traditionalist Russian fascism. Um. She in that same interview, 3:07:28.920 --> 3:07:32.200 she described the war in Ukraine as, quote, a clash 3:07:32.400 --> 3:07:37.840 between globalist and Eurasian civilization. I'll let I'll let my 3:07:37.959 --> 3:07:41.760 friends in Kiev know what they are. That's great, they'll 3:07:41.800 --> 3:07:44.760 be excited by that. Yeah, it is. It is one 3:07:44.760 --> 3:07:46.000 of the things that's been sort of interesting to me 3:07:46.040 --> 3:07:48.640 about this whole thing is like, okay, so do do 3:07:48.680 --> 3:07:51.800 you can sort of comes out of like like Russian 3:07:51.840 --> 3:07:54.240 national bullshit was into some extent right, but then, like 3:07:54.360 --> 3:07:57.840 if you look at the propaganda about Ukraine, it's like, okay, 3:07:57.879 --> 3:07:59.880 these people are all, these people are all Nazis, but 3:08:00.040 --> 3:08:02.120 like also with their communists, and also they're gay, and 3:08:02.200 --> 3:08:04.760 it's like yes, well, that that's the thing is like, 3:08:05.240 --> 3:08:10.560 you know, do people like Dougin and Dogin know well, 3:08:10.640 --> 3:08:15.279 being absolutely fascists, can can pretend to be against Nazis 3:08:15.320 --> 3:08:20.400 for various reasons? Um, DO GINA? Definitely, uh, and and 3:08:20.520 --> 3:08:23.720 do good as well. Are Are Pretty Homophobic, Um, and 3:08:23.879 --> 3:08:28.400 they they view gayness as a sign of like degenerate liberalism, 3:08:28.720 --> 3:08:32.160 so like. But like, they definitely walk that line between like, 3:08:32.440 --> 3:08:33.880 but you know that and that that's the thing. A 3:08:33.959 --> 3:08:35.920 lot of that, like what red, Brown alliance are National 3:08:35.959 --> 3:08:38.600 Bolshevik type things do is walk that line and how 3:08:38.680 --> 3:08:41.760 they how they try to present there, you know, cultural 3:08:41.840 --> 3:08:45.280 beliefs who are to heavily based in traditionalism versus their 3:08:45.760 --> 3:08:50.120 versus their beliefs on like fascism and communism. Um. But 3:08:50.360 --> 3:08:55.520 anyway we are. Let's see, and in her last ever interview, Um, 3:08:55.560 --> 3:08:58.640 which took place on the day of her death, Um, 3:08:58.920 --> 3:09:02.440 do Gina said that at quote, Western just Biggie, by 3:09:02.520 --> 3:09:14.240 the way, I don't know who that is. Oh my God. Alright, 3:09:14.280 --> 3:09:18.320 we're doing a biggie episode next you're of your homework 3:09:18.440 --> 3:09:22.400 for this week. Please come back next week and do better. 3:09:23.040 --> 3:09:26.240 So in in in her last ever interview, she said that, quote, 3:09:26.280 --> 3:09:29.440 Western utilitarianism has come to an end and a special 3:09:29.480 --> 3:09:32.760 military operation is, it seems to me, than the last 3:09:32.920 --> 3:09:36.720 nail in the coffin of this world hedgemon. Um. And 3:09:36.800 --> 3:09:40.759 then later on the interview she talked about how environmentalism, 3:09:41.080 --> 3:09:45.480 support for transgender people, quote, the conversion of a person 3:09:45.760 --> 3:09:49.240 into a homosexual unquote, as well as span is m 3:09:49.320 --> 3:09:52.760 and freaking is Um are tools with which the West 3:09:53.040 --> 3:09:57.800 is trying to fragment society and reduce its population. Free 3:09:58.600 --> 3:10:01.440 my friends who dumps to dived so they could buy 3:10:01.600 --> 3:10:05.480 more drugs fifteen years ago. We're part of a conspiracy 3:10:05.600 --> 3:10:09.640 to fragment society. It's not that cocaine was expensive and 3:10:09.760 --> 3:10:13.800 the fucking trader Joe's didn't lock it's dumpster. It's that. Okay, awesome. 3:10:15.200 --> 3:10:17.840 So yeah, so, those, those, those were the views that 3:10:17.920 --> 3:10:23.400 she exposed hours before dying. So well, talking about the 3:10:23.520 --> 3:10:29.160 conversion of a person into a homosexual, transgender people, freakings 3:10:29.240 --> 3:10:32.680 Um as being the things that are destroying the west. 3:10:33.600 --> 3:10:35.840 To be clear, all of these things are based and 3:10:35.920 --> 3:10:38.920 showed in fact destroy the West. If the if, the 3:10:39.040 --> 3:10:43.080 thing that finally kills capitalism is dumpster diving teams, I 3:10:43.200 --> 3:10:47.400 will be thrilled, but I just don't see it happening. 3:10:48.000 --> 3:10:51.200 Uh So, before we get to the actual deed, let's 3:10:51.400 --> 3:10:54.760 set the stage for where this, uh this event took 3:10:54.879 --> 3:10:59.000 place and where everything went down. So it's August, a Saturday. 3:10:59.720 --> 3:11:03.920 Al Ender Dugan and UH Daria Dugina are attending this 3:11:04.160 --> 3:11:08.360 festival just outside of Moscow, where Dugan's making a planned 3:11:08.400 --> 3:11:11.920 appearance that Um and he gave a lecture that Saturday 3:11:12.000 --> 3:11:15.560 evening at this festival. Now, the festival was called the 3:11:16.000 --> 3:11:19.080 tradition quote unquote. Tradition is what it is, whatever ever 3:11:19.160 --> 3:11:22.640 everything calls it. So I wonder what the festivals about? Huh? 3:11:23.879 --> 3:11:28.160 Appreciation of the headline song from the play fiddler on 3:11:28.240 --> 3:11:32.320 the roof, Best Sung by Zero Mostel? Look it up. 3:11:34.520 --> 3:11:38.200 It's an incredible performance. That must have been it right. 3:11:38.959 --> 3:11:43.960 So the tradition festival is billed as, quote, a Patriotic 3:11:44.160 --> 3:11:50.240 Cultural Festival and family event for art, literature and Music Lovers. 3:11:53.360 --> 3:11:55.240 It's just the same, this thing I've ever heard. So 3:11:55.720 --> 3:11:59.840 it's basically it's it's this traditionalist kind of quasi fast. 3:12:00.080 --> 3:12:03.800 Is Like Art Festival for people who like Neo platonism. 3:12:04.680 --> 3:12:07.760 Is What it actually is. Of It. It takes place 3:12:07.920 --> 3:12:11.760 in Zarkava. Manner. It's this, it's this biggest state about 3:12:11.760 --> 3:12:16.360 twelve miles away from Moscow. Um, the tradition festival is 3:12:16.400 --> 3:12:20.800 supported by the Presidential Fund for Cultural Initiatives, the Ministry 3:12:20.840 --> 3:12:24.400 of Culture and tourism for the Moscow region, among a 3:12:24.440 --> 3:12:28.760 few other kind of sponsors and both Daria and her 3:12:28.840 --> 3:12:33.160 father were special guests at this year's festival. Um. In 3:12:33.280 --> 3:12:37.879 an interview, a colleague of Dugina's said that the conversation 3:12:37.959 --> 3:12:41.520 topics at the festival between Duke and his daughter and 3:12:41.680 --> 3:12:46.240 other tradition festival attendees Um. They said, they said this 3:12:46.360 --> 3:12:49.600 in an interview. Quote. We talked about the Russian idea, 3:12:50.120 --> 3:12:53.960 the empire and the cultural war. Unquote. So that's just 3:12:54.040 --> 3:12:56.960 like the regular conversations you're having at this festival. To 3:12:57.040 --> 3:12:59.360 give you a sense of like what this thing actually is. Um, 3:13:00.360 --> 3:13:05.080 and the blast that eventually that did kill uh Dugan's daughter, 3:13:05.879 --> 3:13:10.039 happened shortly after Dukina left the tradition festival Um at 3:13:10.080 --> 3:13:12.680 the estate where her father had given a lecture just 3:13:12.920 --> 3:13:16.160 hours previous. Um, do you know who? Do you know 3:13:16.200 --> 3:13:20.119 who won't blow up? And I don't. I don't want 3:13:20.120 --> 3:13:24.760 to say that. Look, I'm gonna say right now. If 3:13:24.840 --> 3:13:27.520 you are planning to assassinate a member of the Dugan 3:13:27.600 --> 3:13:31.240 family and once spot to sponsor our podcast, we're on board. 3:13:31.720 --> 3:13:36.320 I think we're fine with that, actually, because it just counted. Yeah, yeah, actually, 3:13:36.520 --> 3:13:38.480 we'll do it for free. Just give us a name, 3:13:38.680 --> 3:13:42.600 because we have and we're down. This is this is 3:13:42.680 --> 3:13:46.080 part of our radical Freakan identity. This is, this is 3:13:46.400 --> 3:13:49.039 this is what I'm gonna do in between stealing old 3:13:49.440 --> 3:13:52.840 pumpkin spice coffee from the trader Joe's dumpster. Unbelievable. I 3:13:53.720 --> 3:13:59.640 will do I will do a traditionalist because pumpkin spice 3:13:59.640 --> 3:14:05.720 coffee is destroying the West. We have to kill it. Yeah, Robert, 3:14:05.959 --> 3:14:09.039 Robert and Danie fucking love the Pumpkin spice. It's amazing. 3:14:09.280 --> 3:14:15.760 It's destroying degenerate liberalism in the form of Pumpkin spice coffee, 3:14:16.560 --> 3:14:20.200 not enjoyed in any wayship. I don't want to Yuck you. Yum, 3:14:20.560 --> 3:14:24.200 I'm thank you. Thank you, thank you. I would like 3:14:24.360 --> 3:14:30.000 to Robert. Oh my God, here's that break. You know what? Yes, 3:14:31.360 --> 3:14:33.360 we are, we are back. Um, I'M gonna open up 3:14:33.400 --> 3:14:39.280 with a quote from from the Bromo. I don't know 3:14:39.320 --> 3:14:43.879 who that I don't know what that is. Oh, the bomb. Yeah, 3:14:45.120 --> 3:14:48.920 Mr Bomb, when you exploded, what's going through your head? Then? 3:14:49.320 --> 3:15:03.400 We are thinking about hot Stariadina. But no, it's actually no, no, perfect. 3:15:03.840 --> 3:15:06.960 We're finishing assassination week to actually to actually justify some 3:15:07.120 --> 3:15:09.600 of our kind of glee at this happening because Dukee 3:15:09.640 --> 3:15:13.520 is a horrible person. They're both trash. Yeah, I am 3:15:13.560 --> 3:15:18.480 going to read a quote from Port Sour in the Guardian. Quote. 3:15:18.720 --> 3:15:22.160 On Saturday night, the violence that the alternationalist Russian thinker, 3:15:22.200 --> 3:15:26.840 Alexander ducan has propagandized for decades suddenly entered his own 3:15:26.959 --> 3:15:29.480 life when his daughter was killed in a car bomb 3:15:29.640 --> 3:15:32.800 on the outskirts of Moscow, and I think that's a 3:15:32.840 --> 3:15:35.400 really important thing that, like, he's made his entire career 3:15:35.879 --> 3:15:40.879 off of doing violence on other people and and promoting 3:15:42.080 --> 3:15:44.760 genocides on people that he doesn't like. They are a 3:15:44.879 --> 3:15:47.000 people I know who are dead because of the war 3:15:47.120 --> 3:15:50.400 that he and his daughter urged to happen. So, yeah, like, 3:15:50.560 --> 3:15:52.600 it's it's it's what it's, it's it's it's the same 3:15:52.640 --> 3:15:56.000 thing as like when every single fucking Nicon guld dies, 3:15:56.400 --> 3:15:59.600 like no one should no one show, no one should 3:15:59.600 --> 3:16:01.960 feel bad about them at all because they dedicated their 3:16:02.080 --> 3:16:04.119 entire lives to having another country be invaded and having 3:16:04.120 --> 3:16:06.840 all these people killed their lives destroyed. So fuck them. 3:16:07.080 --> 3:16:10.080 But yeah, the violence, the violence that he's fetishized and 3:16:10.720 --> 3:16:14.760 and propagandized for decades has has actually entered his life 3:16:14.879 --> 3:16:20.400 for like the first time now. And so, after giving 3:16:20.440 --> 3:16:23.360 a talk at the festival, Dugan and his daughter were 3:16:23.520 --> 3:16:26.720 due to leave the venue together in the same car, 3:16:27.120 --> 3:16:32.520 if but at the last minute Dugan decided to travel 3:16:32.680 --> 3:16:35.680 separately and take different vehicles. We stepped off by the 3:16:35.720 --> 3:16:38.080 C I A, according to a friend and family. Now, 3:16:38.400 --> 3:16:41.640 because at the last minute he did decide to take 3:16:42.200 --> 3:16:45.680 another vehicle. This actually has spawned a lot of conspiracy theories, Um, 3:16:45.959 --> 3:16:47.600 which will kind of get into it a bit later. 3:16:47.800 --> 3:16:49.640 But but this, this is what happened, is that they 3:16:49.680 --> 3:16:51.720 were they were they were going to leave together and 3:16:51.800 --> 3:16:54.480 the last minute they decided to take separate vehicles. Um, 3:16:54.920 --> 3:16:57.960 five minutes later, while, do you note, was driving a 3:16:58.080 --> 3:17:03.320 Toyota Land Cruiser on the highway. That makes the tragedy. 3:17:04.400 --> 3:17:09.320 That's a fine car. It didn't deserve to in that way. Ye, Robert, 3:17:09.360 --> 3:17:12.960 why couldn't it? Why couldn't it have been afford some 3:17:13.120 --> 3:17:18.039 sometimes sacrifices are necessary for the cause. Yeah, I'm Land 3:17:18.120 --> 3:17:21.480 Cruiser on a flag. Let's put let's let let's all 3:17:21.560 --> 3:17:25.440 pull one out for comrade Toyota Land Cruiser. You served 3:17:25.520 --> 3:17:31.400 us well. You made the ultimate sacrifice so that mankind 3:17:31.600 --> 3:17:36.040 might be free to go off roading. So as as 3:17:36.320 --> 3:17:39.120 as as she was driving this Toyota Land Cruiser on 3:17:39.240 --> 3:17:42.240 the highway, a bomb exploded in her car, killing her 3:17:42.320 --> 3:17:47.680 immediately and sadly ripping the vehicle apart Um. Witnesses say 3:17:48.000 --> 3:17:51.640 debris was thrown all over the road as the Toyota 3:17:51.680 --> 3:17:54.880 Land Cruiser immediately lost control and crashed into a fence 3:17:55.360 --> 3:18:02.680 and engulfed in flames. Noble stuff. Yeah, I mean a 3:18:02.800 --> 3:18:07.400 really solid assassination. It is, what's one of the better 3:18:07.480 --> 3:18:12.280 executed ones, especially, especially for a car like it's one 3:18:12.320 --> 3:18:18.760 of the most impressive car bomb attacks that has ever happened. Yeah, yeah, 3:18:19.160 --> 3:18:22.880 that car bomb. That car bomb killed nobody, but yeah, 3:18:22.959 --> 3:18:25.280 that was quite a card. It was a big moon. 3:18:25.640 --> 3:18:28.119 We thought that was an air strike it. Yes, yes, 3:18:28.160 --> 3:18:33.600 definitely a so Um. Eyewitnesses called the fire brigade, but 3:18:33.760 --> 3:18:35.720 by the time they arrived the entire car was up 3:18:35.760 --> 3:18:40.200 in flames and firefighters only found one badly burnt corpse 3:18:40.320 --> 3:18:44.080 in the remains of the vehicle. So investigators say an 3:18:44.120 --> 3:18:47.000 explicit device planted under the car went off in the 3:18:47.080 --> 3:18:50.800 vehicle caught fire. This happened about twelve miles west of 3:18:51.680 --> 3:18:55.880 Moscow on in the village near the village of Oh boy, 3:18:57.080 --> 3:19:07.160 you don't need to try that. Nobody needs vallims the Zimmi. Okay, 3:19:07.440 --> 3:19:11.320 that's me near near the village of bullshower Vel Zimmy, 3:19:12.160 --> 3:19:16.959 at around nine thirty PM local time. Investigators do believe 3:19:16.959 --> 3:19:25.160 the bombing was, quote, premeditated and in the moment. Guys 3:19:25.400 --> 3:19:29.640 just walking down the street with a bomb driving M 3:19:30.879 --> 3:19:35.760 why not? It was. It was. It wasn't the vehicle error. 3:19:36.000 --> 3:19:41.960 This was there was a bomb planted. No forward or 3:19:41.959 --> 3:19:46.240 a Chevy, a pinto. Sure, yeah, if if a fucking 3:19:46.320 --> 3:19:48.720 F one fifty goes up like that, I'm blaming Ford. 3:19:48.800 --> 3:19:51.120 But no, because must have been a bombing. So the 3:19:51.400 --> 3:19:55.480 bomb was placed under the car on the driver's side. Now, 3:19:55.600 --> 3:19:59.960 a friend of the family named Andre Krasnov, who's all 3:20:00.040 --> 3:20:03.880 to the head of the Russia Horizon Social Movement. Um 3:20:04.400 --> 3:20:06.400 was that one of the first ones to confirm the 3:20:06.480 --> 3:20:10.920 reports of of Daria's death and but also said that 3:20:11.080 --> 3:20:14.160 the bomb could have actually been intended for her father, 3:20:14.680 --> 3:20:17.800 and he gave this quote to media. Quote. This was 3:20:18.120 --> 3:20:22.040 the father's vehicle. Daria was driving another car, but she 3:20:22.240 --> 3:20:26.160 took his car. Today, while Alexander went in a different way. 3:20:26.800 --> 3:20:29.000 He returned, he was at the site of the tragedy. 3:20:29.400 --> 3:20:32.600 As far as I understand, Alexander, or probably them together, 3:20:32.920 --> 3:20:39.320 were the target. Unquote. Now, this is this is just speculation. Actually, Um, 3:20:39.680 --> 3:20:42.520 from what I can tell, there is actually more evidence 3:20:42.600 --> 3:20:47.360 suggesting the car was indeed registered to Daria Dugina. We. 3:20:48.040 --> 3:20:51.560 I don't believe it is her father's car. Uh. We 3:20:51.800 --> 3:20:55.400 there was. Some of the vehicle registration was leaked by 3:20:55.480 --> 3:20:59.080 a Russian opposition UH news, news site, like a new 3:20:59.160 --> 3:21:02.760 site in in Russia. UH, who's not state funded. Uh 3:21:03.360 --> 3:21:08.120 leaked the car registration. It was registered to Daria, not, not, 3:21:08.560 --> 3:21:14.800 not Alexander Dugan. Um. So, but it is very likely 3:21:15.040 --> 3:21:18.160 that Dugan may have been a target as well, like, very, 3:21:18.320 --> 3:21:23.040 extremely likely. Uh. It's it's hard, it's it's hard to say. Uh. Now, 3:21:23.200 --> 3:21:26.360 in one of the funniest parts of the assassination, footage 3:21:26.440 --> 3:21:29.720 posted on telegram appears to show Mr Dugan walking up 3:21:29.760 --> 3:21:34.600 to the side of the crash. Hey In shock, with 3:21:34.840 --> 3:21:38.840 his with his mouth just gaping open and hands on 3:21:39.040 --> 3:21:43.040 his head like he's in his surprised. It's one of 3:21:43.120 --> 3:21:47.320 the funniest things I've ever seen. He's walking up to 3:21:47.400 --> 3:21:51.280 the side of the crash like, Oh, it's very that 3:21:51.480 --> 3:21:53.240 is that is the that's the sound of the face 3:21:53.280 --> 3:21:57.720 he's making. Is Um we we love to see a 3:21:57.800 --> 3:22:06.840 wizard in distress. So sad wizard. So the attack happened 3:22:06.879 --> 3:22:11.120 on Saturday and then come Monday, the Federal Security Service, 3:22:11.320 --> 3:22:15.280 or the the FSB, Uh said that the murder has 3:22:15.400 --> 3:22:19.440 been solved. Come, come, come, the next Monday. And this 3:22:19.720 --> 3:22:22.640 is this is not true. This is what we call 3:22:22.840 --> 3:22:28.400 a lie. From the FSC, yes, that's that's really disappointing 3:22:28.440 --> 3:22:33.840 and untruth. Yeah, that's wow. From the Russian FBI? No, 3:22:34.959 --> 3:22:43.120 no intelligent services ever told a lie. That's disappointing. So so, yes, 3:22:43.879 --> 3:22:48.680 according according to, according to the FSB, uh, the the 3:22:48.800 --> 3:22:56.520 attack was mastermind by the Ukrainian secret services and carried 3:22:56.560 --> 3:23:04.720 out by an ace of Ukrainian national names Batalia Vulk 3:23:05.800 --> 3:23:15.920 who fled? Last name? Yeah, Johnny, racist, keep it the fan. 3:23:16.040 --> 3:23:23.440 Did it again. Who fled to Estoda, uh Estonia, following 3:23:23.520 --> 3:23:28.119 the killing? Um, so, Russia, Russia's FPS, did a very 3:23:28.160 --> 3:23:33.280 brief investigation. Yes, sorry, Russia. Russia's FSB did a very 3:23:33.320 --> 3:23:36.959 brief investigation. Claimed that it was this female Ukrainian citizen, 3:23:37.560 --> 3:23:40.720 Um and that, and that she fled the next day, 3:23:40.760 --> 3:23:48.680 which was Sunday. Ukraine says, uh Nah, not really. Yeah, 3:23:48.760 --> 3:23:53.960 that is I mean, basically that Ukraine has made uh yeah, 3:23:54.720 --> 3:23:57.240 did at that noise. It's one of those things. I 3:23:57.760 --> 3:24:00.720 would not be surprised, obviously, if Ukraine did it and 3:24:00.840 --> 3:24:03.720 they have the people responsible or some of their network 3:24:03.760 --> 3:24:06.720 are still in country. Of course you you make a denial, 3:24:07.200 --> 3:24:08.720 but if Ukraine did it and they were out of 3:24:08.760 --> 3:24:11.280 the country, I can't imagine why they wouldn't be like, yeah, man, 3:24:11.320 --> 3:24:16.520 we fucking did yeah, so we're at war. I'll read 3:24:16.520 --> 3:24:19.680 the actual statements. So Ukrainian official dismissed the accusations of 3:24:19.840 --> 3:24:23.760 Ukraine's involvement in the incident. Quote. Ukraine, of course, has 3:24:23.959 --> 3:24:25.360 has nothing to do with this, because we are not 3:24:25.480 --> 3:24:29.080 a criminal state, which is the Russian Federation, and even 3:24:29.160 --> 3:24:34.440 less a terrorist state. Said Uh Mike Helio PODILLAC, who 3:24:34.560 --> 3:24:40.200 is an advisor to President Zelinsky. So yeah, I mean 3:24:40.280 --> 3:24:44.760 maybe Ukraine obviously denies involvement in this. Um, there's a 3:24:44.800 --> 3:24:47.080 bunch of people it could be. Could be Ukraine, could 3:24:47.080 --> 3:24:50.320 be the CIA, could be Ukraine and the CIA could 3:24:50.360 --> 3:24:54.120 be the FSB or the G R. A lot of 3:24:54.200 --> 3:24:56.200 people have a lot of people have theorized all of 3:24:56.280 --> 3:24:58.840 those things. Yeah, there's really no way to know a 3:24:58.920 --> 3:25:02.960 lot of this. Yeah, are we are we going to 3:25:03.040 --> 3:25:05.440 get into the person who destinated the bomb, more like 3:25:05.800 --> 3:25:08.480 the car that? We don't. We don't. We don't know 3:25:08.840 --> 3:25:11.240 what actually happened. I'm going to get to some bit later, 3:25:11.680 --> 3:25:13.920 but some of the actual mechanisms that caused it to 3:25:13.959 --> 3:25:18.520 happen are are still unclear because because the FSB is 3:25:18.560 --> 3:25:22.400 not like given us any definitive evidence on how this 3:25:22.560 --> 3:25:25.840 thing actually worked. But the head of the UH, the 3:25:26.160 --> 3:25:30.920 Nets People's Republic, they issued their own statement on telegram 3:25:31.200 --> 3:25:40.760 saying vile villains, the terrorists, scoundrels. So they're just they're 3:25:40.840 --> 3:25:49.480 just doing a Cobra commander. That's awesome to eate. Alexander 3:25:49.560 --> 3:25:54.080 Dugan blew up his daughter in a car. We cherished 3:25:54.160 --> 3:25:58.360 the memory of Daria. She is a real Russian girl. 3:25:59.640 --> 3:26:05.840 There's as if that makes it worse, but like, if 3:26:05.879 --> 3:26:08.640 they've blown her up some other way, it would not 3:26:08.760 --> 3:26:11.800 have been as vile. But I just loved at the 3:26:11.959 --> 3:26:15.960 end it was she was a real Russian girl. Yeah, yeah, 3:26:16.560 --> 3:26:23.040 it's like Pinocchio. It's very funny. So some, some politicians 3:26:23.160 --> 3:26:26.480 and experts, quote UNQUOTE EXPERTS, I've said that Putin himself 3:26:26.520 --> 3:26:28.959 may have orchestrated the bombing, with little to new evidence 3:26:29.200 --> 3:26:31.440 and support of that theory. There was a British member 3:26:31.480 --> 3:26:34.560 of parliament said that Putin may have targeted Dugan over 3:26:34.640 --> 3:26:37.320 recent criticisms against his government, which I find to be 3:26:37.520 --> 3:26:41.680 very uh. Yeah, Putin's gotten rid of a shipload of 3:26:41.720 --> 3:26:43.480 guys who used to be close to him lately. And 3:26:43.560 --> 3:26:48.000 he didn't use car bombs, for they commit suicide, they 3:26:48.040 --> 3:26:53.800 get sick. You know, a lot of many historians or 3:26:54.080 --> 3:26:58.200 like you know, extremism kind of researchers are definitely kind 3:26:58.240 --> 3:27:03.200 of eyeing up the the FSB um. It's, you know 3:27:03.280 --> 3:27:06.080 it's but it's it's really it's it's really unclear. There 3:27:06.160 --> 3:27:09.480 there was Um uh. People have proposed that, like this, 3:27:09.720 --> 3:27:13.240 this attack was orchestrated to kind of create a wave 3:27:13.360 --> 3:27:17.400 of needed anger in Russia six months into their failed invasion. 3:27:18.560 --> 3:27:21.600 For him, Ruslan, a Trad a security researcher in the 3:27:21.760 --> 3:27:25.040 in the US think tank Atlantic Council, proposed that the 3:27:25.640 --> 3:27:30.600 the the FSB UH or or other Russian state kind 3:27:30.640 --> 3:27:33.160 of apparatus is could have been involved, saying that's evident 3:27:33.280 --> 3:27:36.240 that the murder of Dugana created a wave of needed 3:27:36.240 --> 3:27:39.240 anger in Russia and that, quote, Dugan is now mostly 3:27:39.320 --> 3:27:42.400 a symbol, not an instrument for the state. His role 3:27:42.520 --> 3:27:46.320 in the creation of current Kremlin mythology for Eurasia and 3:27:46.440 --> 3:27:49.600 the so called Russian world has already ended, and he 3:27:50.000 --> 3:27:53.320 and he can be sacrificed. Currently, the Russian army needs 3:27:53.440 --> 3:27:57.320 victories and a patriotic flame, so they they're kind of 3:27:58.120 --> 3:28:00.920 them opposing that. He was. It was like his symbolic 3:28:01.000 --> 3:28:03.720 sacrifice that like be sacrificed this figure. That means this thing, 3:28:04.000 --> 3:28:06.680 people will be willing to like keep on fighting. The 3:28:06.840 --> 3:28:11.120 Ukrainians literally have literally bombed and struck inside Russia at 3:28:11.200 --> 3:28:14.039 this point and killed fifty thou plus of their children. 3:28:14.320 --> 3:28:16.200 You would think that would be enough to make the 3:28:16.280 --> 3:28:20.360 Russians angry. Like blowing up this Weirdo's daughter isn't going 3:28:20.400 --> 3:28:23.240 to be the thing that Galvini is the nation. Well, 3:28:23.920 --> 3:28:26.280 to be clear, though, this is the kind of dumb 3:28:26.360 --> 3:28:32.360 ship the Atlantic Council will be. A stupid Atlantic Council ship, yes, yes, 3:28:32.600 --> 3:28:36.280 and one of the one of the funnier explanations that 3:28:36.400 --> 3:28:40.160 our theories being posited is by former Russian state deputy, 3:28:40.600 --> 3:28:46.720 uh Eliya Pomrov Um, who is now so, in an 3:28:46.760 --> 3:28:50.320 appearance on his Russian language opposition TV channel and Kiev, 3:28:50.800 --> 3:28:55.600 alleged that that Duino was killed by Russian partisans from 3:28:55.640 --> 3:29:01.039 a previously unknown anti Putin terrorist group dubbed the National 3:29:01.240 --> 3:29:05.680 Republican Army, and that both Dugan and his daughter were targets. And, 3:29:05.879 --> 3:29:09.320 according to this guy, the group authorized him to issue 3:29:09.360 --> 3:29:14.520 their manifesto via his telegram, Chattel Um, and this group 3:29:14.680 --> 3:29:18.680 is entirely made up. This is not real. This is this, 3:29:18.879 --> 3:29:21.800 is like this, like this, like this, like former Russians, this, 3:29:22.000 --> 3:29:24.560 this is like this. This, this former Russian official turned 3:29:24.640 --> 3:29:27.520 this like Ukrainian Lib Guy, who claims that it's this 3:29:27.720 --> 3:29:32.080 secret to Anti Putin liberal terrorist group that contacted him. 3:29:32.560 --> 3:29:36.280 And this is this is their first ever attack. That's 3:29:36.440 --> 3:29:39.320 that's that they're they're going public as this new terrorist group, 3:29:39.600 --> 3:29:43.000 and I'm gonna I'm gonna say this is the only 3:29:43.440 --> 3:29:46.000 one of these theories that is abs that that I 3:29:46.120 --> 3:29:50.440 don't believe. Like the this assassination is a lot like 3:29:50.640 --> 3:29:53.400 what happened to Epstein, where everyone who brings up a 3:29:53.480 --> 3:29:56.360 theory has some other reason for having that theory, and 3:29:56.480 --> 3:29:59.160 so I don't trust anything anyone says about it. But 3:29:59.320 --> 3:30:02.160 every theory about why he might how he might have died, 3:30:02.400 --> 3:30:05.800 is plausible right, like every all of these are plausible. Yeah, might, 3:30:05.959 --> 3:30:07.440 like I don't listen. I don't care what the Atlantic 3:30:07.440 --> 3:30:08.840 Council has to say, but yeah, it could have been 3:30:08.840 --> 3:30:11.360 the F FSB. I don't care about, like, what the 3:30:11.440 --> 3:30:13.320 Russian government has to say, but yeah, it could have 3:30:13.360 --> 3:30:17.480 been the Ukrainians, but definitely was not liberal terrorist groups. 3:30:17.560 --> 3:30:22.080 First bombing like this, like that. What what a the 3:30:22.360 --> 3:30:26.080 like the like the single thing where like you can 3:30:26.160 --> 3:30:28.760 instantly tell that someone is lying about what happened in 3:30:28.840 --> 3:30:33.320 the bombing is when they say a previously unknown group everything. 3:30:35.000 --> 3:30:42.119 It's so hard to bomb things. Yeah, like, so serge 3:30:42.600 --> 3:30:45.879 some money. Is a German political expert with particular focus 3:30:46.000 --> 3:30:49.000 on Russia and Eastern Europe. Yeah, he definitely has made 3:30:49.000 --> 3:30:51.440 a lot of statements talking about how Kremlin's version of 3:30:51.480 --> 3:30:54.960 events is definitely h he says, totally fake and absolutely 3:30:55.320 --> 3:30:58.039 out of the scale of possibility in terms of blaming 3:30:58.080 --> 3:31:01.920 it on this this one. You Krainian as off fighter 3:31:02.000 --> 3:31:08.640 who infiltrated Russia. Um and well, well so. The FSB 3:31:08.760 --> 3:31:12.240 has produced, quote unquote, evidence in support of this theory 3:31:12.879 --> 3:31:15.879 of saying that this Ukrainian citizen, who arrived in Russia 3:31:16.000 --> 3:31:18.840 in July with her daughter, rented an apartment in the 3:31:18.920 --> 3:31:24.359 same building as Dugina's and her into Russia as a Ukrainian, 3:31:24.480 --> 3:31:28.920 by the way, July of this year. Yes, as your child, 3:31:30.840 --> 3:31:33.920 rented an apartment in the same building as Dunkin's daughter, 3:31:34.200 --> 3:31:36.920 so specifically ducan's daughter, and spied on her. And like. 3:31:37.080 --> 3:31:40.680 The month before the killing, UM, the FSB released a 3:31:40.959 --> 3:31:44.760 purported passport photo of the Ukrainian citizen, as well as 3:31:44.879 --> 3:31:48.520 a footage that allegedly showed her in Russia with many people, 3:31:48.959 --> 3:31:51.960 including Ukrainian officials and kind of data analysts and like, 3:31:52.080 --> 3:31:55.360 disinformation researchers pointing out the various ways that that the 3:31:55.440 --> 3:32:01.680 document seems forged or digitally fabricated. Um and some landy 3:32:01.760 --> 3:32:05.520 also says that this National Republican Army Group is completely 3:32:05.600 --> 3:32:08.360 made up, because there's there's there's no way that there 3:32:08.360 --> 3:32:11.000 could be a terrorist group like this here's like an 3:32:11.040 --> 3:32:15.240 actual group active that's not infiltrated by the by the 3:32:15.440 --> 3:32:18.920 FSB right now. Um, just like he's like, you're like not, 3:32:19.120 --> 3:32:21.240 like people can do individual acts of terrorism, but have 3:32:21.440 --> 3:32:24.480 like a like a big group like this comprised of 3:32:24.600 --> 3:32:27.600 like former Russian officials. He's like that's just impossible, that's 3:32:27.640 --> 3:32:30.440 just not that's just not gonna happen. Um, no, I 3:32:30.560 --> 3:32:35.800 I agree with all of that. Um Honestly, one reason 3:32:35.959 --> 3:32:40.680 why someone involved in the Russian security state is plausible 3:32:40.840 --> 3:32:45.600 is because this was such a good bombing. It's, it's 3:32:45.800 --> 3:32:48.480 I'm leaning whoever it is, because the CIA is also like. 3:32:48.560 --> 3:32:52.080 I'm leaning towards it's it's a state actor, or because, like, 3:32:52.600 --> 3:32:56.280 fucking bombs are hard to make, especially almost close to 3:32:56.440 --> 3:32:59.360 zero percent of the time when an independent terrorist group 3:32:59.440 --> 3:33:02.040 makes a bomb doesn't work the way it's meant to. 3:33:02.760 --> 3:33:06.040 And like this, this wasn't even ignition based. This blew 3:33:06.160 --> 3:33:10.000 up as she was driving on the highway. So people, 3:33:10.040 --> 3:33:13.960 if it was yeah, like it. It could have been 3:33:14.000 --> 3:33:17.080 like heat activated, it's it could have had like a 3:33:17.200 --> 3:33:20.080 timer based on ignition stuff. But like whatever mechanism that 3:33:20.120 --> 3:33:22.320 got to that they got it to blow up is 3:33:22.400 --> 3:33:24.920 more complicated than your average car bomb and it was 3:33:25.000 --> 3:33:28.040 way more successful in your average car bomb. So it's 3:33:28.080 --> 3:33:32.600 like it's it's bizarre how good they were at doing this. Yeah, 3:33:32.640 --> 3:33:34.800 and like I think it's worth mentioning, like, okay, like 3:33:34.920 --> 3:33:37.360 there was a time where you could just, if you 3:33:37.440 --> 3:33:39.840 needed to make up car bomb, like you could hire 3:33:39.920 --> 3:33:41.720 a guy who would teach you how to make a 3:33:41.760 --> 3:33:44.080 car bomb. Like we don't live in that error anymore. 3:33:44.120 --> 3:33:47.240 Like that, like in the seventies you could plausibly do that, right, although, 3:33:47.280 --> 3:33:49.400 if that's a kind of training you want to offer 3:33:49.520 --> 3:33:52.320 for people to help try to take out Alexander again, 3:33:52.400 --> 3:33:57.320 a sponsor our podcast. Yeah, we're yeah, our our podcast 3:33:57.360 --> 3:34:02.400 sponsored by Becca Valley to Becca harder. I do believe 3:34:02.560 --> 3:34:07.720 that I have this one source here that that it's they, 3:34:08.120 --> 3:34:11.440 the FSP, claimed that the the bomb was either made 3:34:11.520 --> 3:34:15.120 of or equivalent to, five hundred grams of t n t, 3:34:15.680 --> 3:34:20.840 which is that which is complete bullshit. But it's just 3:34:20.920 --> 3:34:23.760 like in Oregon to get rid of a whale. But 3:34:23.879 --> 3:34:27.160 that's that's but that's just one of the statements that 3:34:27.680 --> 3:34:29.720 that's like that's one of the statements that that the 3:34:29.800 --> 3:34:32.240 FSB has made on this, that it's five drabs of 3:34:32.320 --> 3:34:34.400 t n T, which is just not true. Like that's 3:34:34.400 --> 3:34:38.280 just not how bombs work. Um, so now we're gonna 3:34:38.280 --> 3:34:40.280 get to something. We're gonna WE'RE gonna close off here 3:34:41.000 --> 3:34:47.680 by talking about the aftermath and the televised funeral of because, because, 3:34:47.720 --> 3:34:51.880 because it's kind of funny. So family friends, dozens of 3:34:52.000 --> 3:34:56.520 colleagues and acquaintances of Daria Dugina got together live on 3:34:56.680 --> 3:35:01.080 TV on the Tuesday after after after her death, to 3:35:01.240 --> 3:35:04.480 bid their final farewell to the, quote, unquote, journalist killed 3:35:04.520 --> 3:35:08.119 in the car bomb attack outside of Moscow. That's quoting 3:35:08.160 --> 3:35:10.880 from tasks, one of the one of the Russian state 3:35:10.959 --> 3:35:16.199 funded media outlets. Um, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna 3:35:16.240 --> 3:35:19.480 read a quote from Alexander Dukean who. This is something 3:35:19.560 --> 3:35:22.920 he said on the televised funeral. Quote. She had no 3:35:23.200 --> 3:35:26.160 fear really, and the last time we talked was at 3:35:26.200 --> 3:35:30.920 the festival tradition. She said, Daddy, I feel like a warrior, 3:35:31.360 --> 3:35:33.720 I feel like a hero. I want to be with 3:35:33.920 --> 3:35:36.880 my country, I want to be on the light side 3:35:36.920 --> 3:35:39.920 of the force. She's with a lot of Russian people now, 3:35:41.640 --> 3:35:45.480 with about other Russians right now, and just love that. 3:35:45.640 --> 3:35:49.760 Like saying that his daughter walked up to her and said, Daddy, 3:35:50.080 --> 3:35:52.000 I want to be on the light side of the force. 3:35:52.320 --> 3:35:56.600 She's like, like what I mean? A significant chunk of 3:35:56.640 --> 3:36:02.440 her body mass was converted into light. I just I just, 3:36:03.200 --> 3:36:04.840 I just said that. I I don't know. I just 3:36:05.080 --> 3:36:08.280 think it's a really funny thing that that ducan was 3:36:08.320 --> 3:36:11.600 saying less televised funeral. It's just it's a bizarre quote. Um, 3:36:11.959 --> 3:36:14.760 he also said that he wanted to bring up his 3:36:14.879 --> 3:36:19.160 daughter the way that he saw the ideal person to be, saying, quote, 3:36:19.520 --> 3:36:22.040 the first words that we taught her as a child 3:36:22.320 --> 3:36:30.520 were Russia, our state, our people and our empire. Unquote. Again, 3:36:30.760 --> 3:36:35.120 none of this is true, like, he's just a weird 3:36:35.240 --> 3:36:39.360 thing to say. It's your daughter's funeral. No, you gotta Look, look, 3:36:39.560 --> 3:36:43.320 he got daughter. It's like any other kind of investment right, like, 3:36:43.560 --> 3:36:46.560 and she's been exploded. You gotta get as much as 3:36:46.640 --> 3:36:49.279 you can, like really, it's like ringing out a towel, 3:36:49.680 --> 3:36:52.720 you know. Uh, you gotta just make that last little 3:36:52.760 --> 3:36:57.600 bit count and then, uh, Vladimir Putin, a few days after, 3:36:58.040 --> 3:37:02.120 after the assassination, signed a decree to to award her 3:37:02.400 --> 3:37:09.040 with the order of courage post posthumously. So she did. 3:37:09.360 --> 3:37:15.120 She did explode courageously. So, yeah, that is that. That's 3:37:15.160 --> 3:37:18.120 the Sassination of Dugan's daughter. It's wild because we don't 3:37:18.160 --> 3:37:20.920 really actually know. We don't we we don't really know 3:37:21.000 --> 3:37:23.520 who actually did it. We we we don't know much 3:37:23.520 --> 3:37:25.920 about the actual event. We're unsure of the actual the 3:37:26.000 --> 3:37:30.359 actual like ignition of the bomb, how the bomb actually operated. 3:37:30.760 --> 3:37:34.320 Who Actually did it? I mean, obviously like this, whether 3:37:34.680 --> 3:37:37.960 whether Dugan himself was a target or was specifically Um, 3:37:38.360 --> 3:37:42.320 Daria Dugina. Um. Now, obviously this was like heavily planned 3:37:42.520 --> 3:37:46.160 based off of her and Dugan's schedule, right, because they 3:37:46.240 --> 3:37:51.760 were both openly gonna be at this facial cultural festivals. Yeah, but, like, 3:37:51.879 --> 3:37:54.080 you know, like it did require like you know, people 3:37:54.160 --> 3:37:57.080 were tracking their movements, being like Oh, Dugan's gonna be 3:37:57.160 --> 3:38:00.240 at this festival on this day. Um. So, like it's 3:38:00.440 --> 3:38:02.560 there is a lot of like background work that went 3:38:02.640 --> 3:38:05.640 into this and it's fascinating that we just we actually 3:38:05.720 --> 3:38:08.120 know very little about who, who may have done this 3:38:08.760 --> 3:38:13.359 and how and how the bomb actually operated. The primary 3:38:13.640 --> 3:38:16.160 clue we have is just how good the bomb was, 3:38:16.280 --> 3:38:18.720 which which means one way or the other, a nation 3:38:18.800 --> 3:38:24.400 state actor, probably, but that does not really narrow it much. So, yeah, 3:38:24.600 --> 3:38:27.680 that was that was again one of the assassinations that 3:38:27.800 --> 3:38:32.200 happened shortly after we planned assassination week. Yeah, I feel 3:38:32.200 --> 3:38:37.600 like it's what like man like easily our most successful 3:38:37.720 --> 3:38:42.960 PR campaign. It's it's just so wild to think like 3:38:43.240 --> 3:38:45.640 how close Dugan was to die, because remember, like he 3:38:46.080 --> 3:38:48.200 was planning to leave in that same car and then, 3:38:48.240 --> 3:38:52.080 at the last minute, decided to take separate vehicles. So 3:38:52.320 --> 3:38:55.680 was he behind her when it went off? Like yeah, yeah, 3:38:55.840 --> 3:38:58.600 that's why we got that great photo walking up to 3:38:58.680 --> 3:39:02.240 the site. Yeah, would you point this out to like 3:39:02.760 --> 3:39:05.040 actually been like five grams a t and t like 3:39:05.440 --> 3:39:10.600 held been when he walked up to it, like picture 3:39:10.600 --> 3:39:12.440 of going Oh my God, and then just his face 3:39:12.480 --> 3:39:14.440 would explode. But not mean like a lot of conspiracy 3:39:14.440 --> 3:39:17.040 theories have popped up, being like well, Dugan was supposed 3:39:17.080 --> 3:39:18.720 to be in that car and then he left last minute. 3:39:18.959 --> 3:39:21.440 Maybe he was in on it. Maybe, like maybe, you know, 3:39:21.680 --> 3:39:23.920 the Russian state told him this was gonna happen and 3:39:24.040 --> 3:39:26.360 he and he just let it happen and it was 3:39:26.440 --> 3:39:28.760 doing it for like this pr thing and like who knows, 3:39:28.920 --> 3:39:32.600 like like do maybe maybe Dugan didn't know that this 3:39:32.760 --> 3:39:35.240 was gonna happen, like, like there's there's no way to like, 3:39:35.400 --> 3:39:38.080 you're just, you're just, you're just speculating at that point. 3:39:38.280 --> 3:39:40.640 We're just creating theories in your own head. But it 3:39:40.800 --> 3:39:43.840 is it is kind of funny that that Dugan almost 3:39:44.000 --> 3:39:46.880 was in that car and then it wasn't, and that is, uh, 3:39:47.720 --> 3:39:51.120 that that is at the very least, an interesting aspect 3:39:51.240 --> 3:39:54.720 of this assassination. Um, but it's no evidence for one 3:39:54.840 --> 3:39:57.480 specific thing right now. It could just be like, Oh, 3:39:58.080 --> 3:40:00.400 I'm gonna make a stop somewhere on my way back 3:40:00.400 --> 3:40:02.040 home right like, so I'm gonna take this I'm gonna 3:40:02.040 --> 3:40:05.560 take this other vehicle, like. There's so many other possible 3:40:05.600 --> 3:40:08.960 reasons for why he may have switched cars. Um, but 3:40:09.160 --> 3:40:11.360 it is, it's it's another, it is another like thing 3:40:11.480 --> 3:40:15.680 to that that the people are turning into various theories. Yeah, 3:40:15.680 --> 3:40:16.840 I would. The thing I say about that was, like 3:40:16.920 --> 3:40:18.920 you have to have a lot of faith in your 3:40:18.959 --> 3:40:22.640 bomb maker to drive behind a car bomb like intentionally, 3:40:22.959 --> 3:40:25.440 like you've got to be really like, I don't either 3:40:25.520 --> 3:40:28.080 that or you really hate your daughter in a way 3:40:28.120 --> 3:40:30.600 that's very reckless. Yeah, but you could just like turn 3:40:30.720 --> 3:40:32.920 off the highway or something or like, oh no, my 3:40:33.000 --> 3:40:35.600 car broke down. I need to make sure that down. 3:40:36.560 --> 3:40:39.120 You gotta drop her, you've got to press the big 3:40:39.160 --> 3:40:43.720 plunger into the box. Yeah, well, at least we're ending 3:40:43.800 --> 3:40:47.080 on a high note. Yeah, I have to have to. Yeah, 3:40:47.520 --> 3:40:50.480 I do like that. I've started. We started asassination week 3:40:50.520 --> 3:40:55.160 with a car bomb and we're ending it with she 3:40:55.280 --> 3:40:59.200 declared the nearest church. No doubt. It's like it's like 3:40:59.320 --> 3:41:01.520 poetry at rhymes and I want to be on the 3:41:01.600 --> 3:41:04.360 light side of the force. Quote. Fine, what are the 3:41:04.760 --> 3:41:07.640 according to do again? What are the last things Daria 3:41:07.720 --> 3:41:09.720 Dugan said? I wanted to be on the light side 3:41:09.760 --> 3:41:13.039 of the force. Somebody, if there were real journalists left 3:41:13.080 --> 3:41:15.360 in the world, somebody would reach out to George Lucas 3:41:15.440 --> 3:41:19.000 and just try to get a quote. And you're not. 3:41:19.280 --> 3:41:21.880 Don't email him. It's like just go to a mall 3:41:22.040 --> 3:41:25.400 near skywalker ranch and wait until he goes to the sparrow. 3:41:25.920 --> 3:41:30.080 You'll find him. All right, that doesn't for us today. 3:41:30.720 --> 3:41:34.800 Check under your driver's side door. If you're Alexander Dugan. 3:41:35.320 --> 3:41:40.000 Imagine if he wasn't like, if if he wasn't involved, 3:41:40.200 --> 3:41:41.960 he wasn't aware of this. He is going to be 3:41:42.000 --> 3:41:47.160 looking over his shoulder like nonstop. Now. Yeah, man into 3:41:47.200 --> 3:41:50.560 a car he hasn't like shimmied under. He had to 3:41:50.600 --> 3:41:53.640 look under every car he gets into. It's so funny. Uh, 3:41:54.120 --> 3:42:00.760 we'd love to see it anyway. All right, we're done. Hey, 3:42:00.920 --> 3:42:03.960 we'll be back Monday with more episodes every week from 3:42:04.000 --> 3:42:06.600 now until the heat death of the universe. It could 3:42:06.600 --> 3:42:08.920 happen here is a production of cool zone media. For 3:42:09.080 --> 3:42:11.800 more podcasts from cool zone media, visit our website, cool 3:42:11.840 --> 3:42:13.800 zone media DOT COM, or check us out on the 3:42:13.879 --> 3:42:16.560 I heart radio APP, apple podcasts or wherever you listen 3:42:16.600 --> 3:42:19.360 to podcasts. You can find sources for it could happen here, 3:42:19.440 --> 3:42:22.840 updated monthly at cool zone media dot com, slash sources. 3:42:23.080 --> 3:42:23.880 Thanks for listening.