Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, Robert Evans here and I wanted to let
Speaker 1: you know this is a compilation episode, so every episode
Speaker 1: of the week that just happened is here in one
Speaker 1: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to
Speaker 1: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If
Speaker 1: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,
Speaker 1: there's gotta be nothing new here for you, but you
Speaker 1: can make your own decisions. Welcome to assassination week. P Bang, Bang,
Speaker 1: timely expulsive device D C. Hello, welcome to assassination week.
Speaker 1: I hope you like that intro from our good friend
Speaker 1: when we commissioned to do that intro from so big
Speaker 1: props to them for giving us like ten seconds of
Speaker 1: their time to record that intro. Wow, it's it's been
Speaker 1: so long since we've been planning to do this. Yep,
Speaker 1: but here we are talking about killing people. It's great
Speaker 1: because would be first thought of assassination week. We're like
Speaker 1: how are we going to fill five episodes there? And
Speaker 1: then there's like so many more assassinations happened, there were,
Speaker 1: there were to the next day. Yeah, yeah, we've decided
Speaker 1: to stop imagining things into the ether and yeah, and
Speaker 1: so maybe assassination month is coming, who knows? Hey. Well,
Speaker 1: here's the thing. If, if people keep getting assassinated, we
Speaker 1: will do more assassination episodes. That is the way it works. Yep,
Speaker 1: that's that is, sadly, part of our job. So we've
Speaker 1: already done one, I guess we did. We did Shinzo
Speaker 1: Abe a little bit, but we're coming back to him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: WE'RE gonna WE'RE gonna do we're gonna later because we
Speaker 1: have a lot more context information about the assassination now,
Speaker 1: but that that is later this week. So we have
Speaker 1: we have five episodes all about assassinations, most of which
Speaker 1: have happened or tried to happen this year. Most, most
Speaker 1: these are going to be pretty, pretty topical. Yeah, mine
Speaker 1: is not, because I am so we gotta, we we
Speaker 1: we we got, we got, we gotta start with the
Speaker 1: historical assassination. We can't, we can't completely have it be
Speaker 1: just randomly jumping back and forward between times. There has
Speaker 1: to be some kind of logic. Yeah, well, the assassination
Speaker 1: is the logic. But yeah, today we're talking about ETA
Speaker 1: Basque nationalist Leftist Group and, more specifically, I guess they're
Speaker 1: operation are the killing of Luis Carrero Blanco in Spain
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy three. It's like obviously not very, very current.
Speaker 1: It's often pointed to is like a very influential assassination,
Speaker 1: right one that made a difference and made a change.
Speaker 1: Often it's called the only thing that ever did to
Speaker 1: advance the cause of Spanish democracy, which I think like
Speaker 1: this is, and I'm sorry if you think that they're
Speaker 1: like based leftist terrorists. This is not not a generally
Speaker 1: as as an organization, we don't like people who made
Speaker 1: the journalists. That's one of US dances, and so there's
Speaker 1: going to be a little bit of context around this
Speaker 1: that we need to give first. So maybe if we
Speaker 1: kick off with who they are and then we can
Speaker 1: talk about that assassination in particular. How familiar folks do
Speaker 1: we think, with ECTA? What do people know about them
Speaker 1: in us? Not at all. Yeah, people all eat. Okay,
Speaker 1: I think. Well, they're they're I think they're famous for
Speaker 1: this assassination and for having literally the worst outfits I've
Speaker 1: ever seen in my entire that that that the combination
Speaker 1: of like the face mask in the beret is like
Speaker 1: one of the most unfortunate things I've ever seen. It
Speaker 1: is hideous. It is you. You've got just just were
Speaker 1: the mask. It's cooler. AH, batch, it's awful, truly dogshit. Okay, Chris,
Speaker 1: come in with the fashion police early on. I say,
Speaker 1: where what you want. I think you will look great
Speaker 1: and really alienating ski mask and Berry Audience Right at
Speaker 1: the start. So if you've, if you've managed to, you know,
Speaker 1: stick around through that hate speech, we're going to talk
Speaker 1: about they do. Yeah, they do like to wear a
Speaker 1: ski mask. It's part of an esthetic, isn't it, though,
Speaker 1: like there's an aesthetic of like, I guess eightiesies terrorism
Speaker 1: that is like like woodland pattern kind of DPU Camoufla
Speaker 1: dbm camouflage, a cheap black scheme mask, Balaclava and a
Speaker 1: berry like sometimes you can pick two of those things,
Speaker 1: but it's definitely like a vibe from that time period. HMM,
Speaker 1: I wonder. I wonder why none of these groups worked.
Speaker 1: It must have nothing to do with the fashion, to
Speaker 1: be fair, the Zapatista's big scheme mask. Maybe it's the bubble.
Speaker 1: Maybe the bubble is what sets then yeah, it's it's
Speaker 1: it's the fact that yet you don't wear the Barret
Speaker 1: on the ski mask necessities because they just wear the mask. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: I think we're we're united and I believe that the
Speaker 1: Zapatis does look cool and in many ways are cool.
Speaker 1: In fact, we're not talking about them today. We're talking
Speaker 1: about so it's an acronym right. Um, it's an acronym
Speaker 1: INSCARA or Basque. I don't I don't speak Basque. It's
Speaker 1: a very hard language for me to learn. At least
Speaker 1: I'm not going to say it's a hard language to learn,
Speaker 1: cause I think that depends on who you are, but
Speaker 1: it is one that I have historically struggled with understanding.
Speaker 1: It does have a generous smattering of XS. So you know,
Speaker 1: if you're seeing it out there, good luck to you.
Speaker 1: I will try and pronounce things as respectfully as I can.
Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time in the Basque country
Speaker 1: by graceeing. I really, really love Basque people. They're very nice.
Speaker 1: I enjoy their food and their CIDER and their countryside.
Speaker 1: But today we're talking about this group ESCAR. It stands
Speaker 1: for you, Scadi, to Askatasuna, which means, like Basque, homeland
Speaker 1: and Liberty, which they were going to call it Ata,
Speaker 1: but in and back down dialects. That means duck so
Speaker 1: they moved away from that. That would have been so
Speaker 1: much funnier. Would write you've been ducked, but they didn't
Speaker 1: do that. They right from the get go they were
Speaker 1: about like like this dual process right of politics and
Speaker 1: political violence. Their slogan means keep up on both sides
Speaker 1: and their logo is like a snake wrapped around the acts.
Speaker 1: The snake is politics and the act is acts is,
Speaker 1: I guess, political violence, terrorism, whatever you want to call it.
Speaker 1: And over the years of action they killed eight people,
Speaker 1: so that they were pretty serious terrorist group right. Like,
Speaker 1: I can't I don't know how many people the IRA
Speaker 1: a killed, but I'm thinking of groups in there. I
Speaker 1: don't think it would be that many killed. Like I
Speaker 1: think they killed like over a thousand. Okay, well, I
Speaker 1: mean I said like the entire troubles killed like thirty.
Speaker 1: So it's like a not significant fraction of that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean the British government did a decent amount of
Speaker 1: that and definitely yeah, but like it's a not in
Speaker 1: significant fraction of the total number of people who died
Speaker 1: in the troubles. So they're not like nothing, know, but
Speaker 1: like it's only up there. And Look, this is much
Speaker 1: of a similar thing as we're going to see right,
Speaker 1: where the Spanish state killed a lot of people too,
Speaker 1: and sort of armed groups acting in sort of coalition
Speaker 1: with the Spanish state, it's the safest way to say that,
Speaker 1: but certainly with the complicity of the Spanish state, played
Speaker 1: a large part in this, this dirty war that ETA
Speaker 1: conducted with the Spanish state. Right. And to understand them
Speaker 1: you have to understand a little bit about Basque nationalism,
Speaker 1: early Basque nationalism. We we can like find the guy
Speaker 1: who really constructs the idea of a Basque nation, right,
Speaker 1: and Sabina is the guy. He takes what is like
Speaker 1: a language. It's a very old language, right, predates Latin
Speaker 1: and places where that language is spoken, and takes it
Speaker 1: from like these are the areas where this language is
Speaker 1: spoken to like this is our nation, and all nations
Speaker 1: are created, right, like nations don't come from the primordial soup,
Speaker 1: like we don't evolve into one nation or another. An abrogation. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: they they're constructed by like entrepreneurs identity for which war
Speaker 1: leads to some kind of false consciousness, one might say,
Speaker 1: to maybe distract people from other things, but that's the
Speaker 1: right Zapatistas watches. That's the yeah, yeah, we're coming for
Speaker 1: you with a work mob. We're going to cancel you.
Speaker 1: Nations begin to exist when religion loses a claim on
Speaker 1: universal truth. Right. This is the Benedict Anderson speed run.
Speaker 1: We don't need to go into the history of nationalism.
Speaker 1: Particularly it's important people to know where the Basque land is.
Speaker 1: So the Basque land is in the northwest of Spain
Speaker 1: and the southwest of France. Right. It's these provinces where, historically,
Speaker 1: their mountainous provinces, people there were often shepherds. You'll often
Speaker 1: find Basque people in the United States like growing wine
Speaker 1: or doing sheep herding, and that's their sort of historical
Speaker 1: images themselves, and they speak this Basque language. Right. So
Speaker 1: ETA come onto the scene as a Basque Nash to
Speaker 1: list Leftist Group. Like they sort of have some elements
Speaker 1: of Marxism, but they're obviously like nationalist. They they center.
Speaker 1: They don't center Catholicism, which is what previous Basque nationalisms
Speaker 1: have done. Right. Previous Basque nationalisms have been elite constructs
Speaker 1: that centered language, poetry and the Catholic identity. Don't do
Speaker 1: that they have this that's where they're slightly better. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: right there. They're better than like the carlists, who are
Speaker 1: like things went wrong when Spain moved away from this
Speaker 1: line of royal secession and we need to go back
Speaker 1: to that, and like extreme religious totalitarianism and a monarchy.
Speaker 1: Like they're better than that. I feel pretty comfortable saying that.
Speaker 1: And they've done some cool stuff that they used to
Speaker 1: kidnap bosses who refused to negotiate with striking workers, which, like,
Speaker 1: I know, watch out rail rail company owners. But they
Speaker 1: they definitely have like a leftist lead, right. They have
Speaker 1: this sort of Pan Third World this idea, this pan
Speaker 1: sort of colonized people idea. They begin assassinating people when
Speaker 1: they take revenge for this guy who's called chabby. You
Speaker 1: can look at that name if you want to see
Speaker 1: some ex is in her name. But they they kill
Speaker 1: the local chief of police. Right. What happened is EST
Speaker 1: BARRIETTA and this was a guy, were killed by a policeman.
Speaker 1: The police stop them at a roadblock, they run away
Speaker 1: the police, the police shoot them. In response, they kidnapped
Speaker 1: the local chief of police, who has probably been torturing people.
Speaker 1: Right like that, you have to understand that all this
Speaker 1: is happening in the context of a Spanish state which
Speaker 1: is extremely violent and repressive. And they kill this guy, right,
Speaker 1: and with this Franco right? Yes, no, but they begin
Speaker 1: under Franco, right. So they and their support probably peaks
Speaker 1: under Franco, right, like they what what we're going to
Speaker 1: see is actually they are somewhat integral too not bringing
Speaker 1: down the Franco regime, and in a sense, Spain never
Speaker 1: does bring down the Franco regime, right. I want to
Speaker 1: get into that a little bit. But in destabilizing the
Speaker 1: Franco regime, and they certainly there was more support for
Speaker 1: this kind of political violence when the state is so
Speaker 1: obviously like undemocratic, unjust and incredibly violent towards people, right.
Speaker 1: So they when they're killing members as a guard Seville,
Speaker 1: these are people who are torturing prisoners. Right. ETA prisoners
Speaker 1: pretty often, when they're captured, turn up tortured in court,
Speaker 1: like very obviously that they have been victims of beatings
Speaker 1: and physical violence, right, and a lot of things you'll see.
Speaker 1: They also kidnaped this guy forgetting it. He's one of
Speaker 1: the founders of vox and they kept him in a
Speaker 1: seller for months and months and months and months. They
Speaker 1: look I don't I don't like vox, but they also
Speaker 1: don't like locking people and sellers. Two things can be
Speaker 1: dead and vox is a right wing, populist average party,
Speaker 1: if people aren't familiar. They also did a lot of extortion.
Speaker 1: They also did a lot of extorting local businesses, right.
Speaker 1: They called it the revolutionary tax. So they got into
Speaker 1: some sort of more classic kind of organized crime stuff there.
Speaker 1: And but the assassination we want to talk about today
Speaker 1: is so the way they do this is they rent
Speaker 1: this flat right there. That's an apartment for American listeners,
Speaker 1: and they rent this flat and claimed to be students,
Speaker 1: like sculpting students, right, like they were art students, were
Speaker 1: into sculpture. That's that's why we're covered in dust every
Speaker 1: day and we we wear these overrules. And for five
Speaker 1: months they spend every day digging a tunnel underneath the
Speaker 1: road by their flat, right, and in that tunnel they
Speaker 1: packs of explosive and what they're doing there is they're
Speaker 1: waiting for this guy, Luis Carrero Blanco, to come in
Speaker 1: his car, which he travels in every day, right, and
Speaker 1: they're gonna explode that explosive and they're going to kill him.
Speaker 1: The reason they want to kill him is because they
Speaker 1: say that he is the the best example of pure fascism. Right.
Speaker 1: He's a former admiral, he's Spain's sort of prime minister.
Speaker 1: He's Franco's chosen successor, right, so he's going to take
Speaker 1: over from Franco, and so by killing him they're able
Speaker 1: to destabilize the whole Franco regimer. Franco cries in public
Speaker 1: when he finds out Colonel Blanco is dead. And so,
Speaker 1: spoiler alert, career Blanco is extremely dead. The way they
Speaker 1: did this is they dressed up as electricians, which is
Speaker 1: also a lot of dressing up in this which is
Speaker 1: kind of fine, and they painted a little line on
Speaker 1: a wall to be like, okay, when the car gets
Speaker 1: to here, we explode it. So the car gets to there,
Speaker 1: they explode it. They launched this car over a church
Speaker 1: and it lands on the second floor terraces on the
Speaker 1: other side. Sometimes this is called like the Basques. His
Speaker 1: program or Luis Carrero Blanco is referred to as Spain's
Speaker 1: first astronaut. Yeah, you can find a picture of it.
Speaker 1: Is His hysterical. The court, like it's just it just goes. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's periodically in Spain like someone will be prosecuted
Speaker 1: for making this joke. This Spain's first astronaut joke. And
Speaker 1: so it happened someone pretty recently and she had really
Speaker 1: made it a thing of making jokes. Actually, I think
Speaker 1: his I think it's his grandchildren have noted that. It's
Speaker 1: it's a problematic restriction of free speech that the people
Speaker 1: keep getting prosecuted for this, and the court recently found
Speaker 1: that they weren't mocking his family or his memory, but
Speaker 1: they were just pointing the objectively funny way in which
Speaker 1: he died. You know, great for the court to agree
Speaker 1: that it was objectively funny that a terrible fucking person
Speaker 1: died by being blown literally sky high and his driver
Speaker 1: and his bodyguard were also killed. Shouldn't be a bodyguard
Speaker 1: for a piece of ship. But they, the guys had
Speaker 1: disguised themselves of Electricans. After the bomb went off, they
Speaker 1: ran around shouting, Oh no, we've hit a gas pipe,
Speaker 1: like there's been a gas explosion. Every everybody clear out.
Speaker 1: was so pretty pretty entertaining stuff, acting as their side passion,
Speaker 1: I guess, and and like the reason they did if
Speaker 1: they did a pressor not longer afterwards, wearing their outfits,
Speaker 1: which some of you may find offensive, and they they
Speaker 1: cited like his irreplaceable place in the hierarchy right and
Speaker 1: him being this. They called him a pure francoist. And, oddly,
Speaker 1: like etta, were not. At this point, they were less
Speaker 1: unpopular than they became later, because they weren't doing quite
Speaker 1: as much extortion and they hadn't been engaging in quite
Speaker 1: as many murders of journalists. Right and and you used
Speaker 1: to see this. I'll get to that lay. Actually, they
Speaker 1: got grudging praise from almost everyone for doing this right
Speaker 1: and because it really does destabilize and kind of kick
Speaker 1: their legs out from under the Franco regime and it
Speaker 1: makes Franco cry, which I think is a laudable goal,
Speaker 1: like it's good to make Franco cry. Franco cry more
Speaker 1: so they well, it kind of it, kind of, it
Speaker 1: kind of astomizes the Franco a state right between people
Speaker 1: who are like this bunker tendency, who want to go
Speaker 1: hardcore and crack down, and those who are like, we
Speaker 1: don't have the ability to crack down, like we'll lose
Speaker 1: all popular support if we do that and it really
Speaker 1: sort of vaporizes the consensus for what to do after
Speaker 1: Franco dies, which he does a few years later. I
Speaker 1: want to point out that people will, you'll read these
Speaker 1: articles on like the popular news websites or like you know,
Speaker 1: like hot take websites, where they're like, Oh, this carbon
Speaker 1: launched Spain into democracy. I don't do that, I think.
Speaker 1: First of all, the major error with that is the
Speaker 1: idea that Spain, quote vote, transition to democracy. When you
Speaker 1: have a pacted transition where the people who did the
Speaker 1: war crimes in the previous regime specifically not prosecuted an
Speaker 1: exempt from prosecution. That's not what democracy looks like. I
Speaker 1: think the most accurate way of just scriving West Spain
Speaker 1: is is a post dictator like a post dictatorship, and
Speaker 1: Spain is still there. Now that we see that with
Speaker 1: these prosecutions for mocking him, right, with the fact that
Speaker 1: there are people in Spain who are still in prison
Speaker 1: from mocking the crown, like that's not what democracies do.
Speaker 1: Good thing. That could never happen in Britain. Yeah, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: you won't find you won't find me defending that either,
Speaker 1: but we don't we don't make a big industry of
Speaker 1: talking about Britain's transition to democracy. Maybe don't talk about
Speaker 1: transitions at all, given the powerful TURF discourse in Britain.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think it's problematic that that folks talk
Speaker 1: about this like yeah, it Spain his fixed. Like Spain
Speaker 1: has some dark it that it needs to process. Like
Speaker 1: it was not until the middle of the last decade
Speaker 1: that we started exhuming the graves from the civil war,
Speaker 1: and that's still highly contentious. Right, you still have a
Speaker 1: political party that doesn't want to do that. Spain is
Speaker 1: still processing the fact that the Catholic Church took babies
Speaker 1: away from people who had considered to be leftist and
Speaker 1: gave them to people who it considered to be more
Speaker 1: appropriate to raise them. It's called Ninobos if you want
Speaker 1: to look it up. Yes, Spain not transitioning to to democracy,
Speaker 1: and I want to make that very clear. Some of
Speaker 1: the other ship that etta does is really this is
Speaker 1: where they start to lose any any claim to being
Speaker 1: like a liberation movement, right, like they bombed an epair core.
Speaker 1: That's like bombing a target for American folks in Barcelona
Speaker 1: and they killed twenty one people. Now I will say
Speaker 1: this isn't this is exemplary bad policing. They called the
Speaker 1: cops and we're like, Hey, we've put a bomb on
Speaker 1: that eas the supermarket. You will ought to clear it out,
Speaker 1: and the cops sore like I can't tell if that's
Speaker 1: a real threat or not, and as a result, did
Speaker 1: do anything and as a result the bomb went off
Speaker 1: and then needs the supermarket in twenty one people died. Right.
Speaker 1: They also alerted in a newspaper in Catalonia beforehand. Reporters
Speaker 1: Without Borders still for a long time classified Spain as
Speaker 1: a place that was hostile to journalists because of the
Speaker 1: attacks on journalists by etta. Right, also, the state isn't
Speaker 1: hostile to journalism, but I want to point out that
Speaker 1: they killed journalists, they killed university professors who disagreed with them,
Speaker 1: they killed local counselors, and it was some of these,
Speaker 1: like these very unpopular murders which really sort of strip
Speaker 1: support from them. And one thing that the Spanish state did,
Speaker 1: a couple of things the Spanish state did, that really
Speaker 1: were extremely repressive against ETA, was they would move Basque
Speaker 1: prisoners out of the Basque Homeland and sort of hold
Speaker 1: them thousands of miles away from their families. Work in
Speaker 1: the Canary Islands and ship like. They're probably closer to
Speaker 1: Africa than you are to to your your home country.
Speaker 1: When they do that right, and you would often see
Speaker 1: I don't know if maybe you guys have seen this.
Speaker 1: It's a white flag. It's got an outline of the Basqutland,
Speaker 1: it's got an Arrow and it says you area. Have
Speaker 1: you seen that like protests now? If you if you've
Speaker 1: been at the protests, I is that, like, you know,
Speaker 1: in like the early two thousands in Europe, you would
Speaker 1: see that flag a lot. It just means Basque prisoners
Speaker 1: to the Basque Homeland. Like a lot of people got
Speaker 1: behind that who might not have got behind other things
Speaker 1: that ETA did right that it does seem deeply inhumane
Speaker 1: to move these people so far away from their families.
Speaker 1: It's sort of an extra punishment. The Spanish state also
Speaker 1: had this thing called Gal Gal is Groupo Anti Terroristas
Speaker 1: de Libration, so I guess like anti terrorists Liberation Group,
Speaker 1: and these were desquads, right. These were descat dated and
Speaker 1: invetted by the police. Etta enjoyed like a safe space
Speaker 1: in France, I guess, or like a Freedom for prosecution.
Speaker 1: Certainly under Franco, France was like, you know what, Franco
Speaker 1: really sucks, so you guys, go ahead and send it
Speaker 1: do your terrorism way. About a clavist. I'm sure the
Speaker 1: French also objected to their beret style, but this is
Speaker 1: this safe space. It's basically what they said. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: this is like a whole thing with midterrand in France
Speaker 1: in the seventies, like France kind of became this weird
Speaker 1: like like they basically had this they had this open policy.
Speaker 1: Were like there was a bunch of well, there are.
Speaker 1: There are a bunch of people in Italy who got
Speaker 1: like falsely accused of like being the Red Brigades. What's
Speaker 1: that guy's name? The Guy Negri a toto, who's like
Speaker 1: a kind of famous. This theory kind of sucks by
Speaker 1: the end, but like they arrest him for like being
Speaker 1: a terrorist and then he gets himself elected to parliaments,
Speaker 1: we can get parliamentary immunity, and then flees the country
Speaker 1: to France. Yea. Yeah, this was a weird time. was
Speaker 1: in Carlos a jackal, also in Paris for a while. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you love it. France open door policy to terrorists. This
Speaker 1: is the only cool thing France has done since like yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're not wrong. They invented Parkour. When was that? Oh,
Speaker 1: that was like in the resident xt okay, there you go. Okay,
Speaker 1: so the second cool thing. You're going to hand that
Speaker 1: to them? Yeah, they'll tend that to the entire country
Speaker 1: of France. Yeah, maybe not actually, given their treatment of
Speaker 1: migrant de aspirates in recent years. And sometimes their firefighters
Speaker 1: will go out and beat the ship into the police.
Speaker 1: That's true. Do you think we all have to give
Speaker 1: that to them? I wanted to maybe end with this
Speaker 1: quote from supercommand Ante Marcos. So we've talked a little
Speaker 1: bit about so this is from a piece code. I
Speaker 1: shipped upon this. I shipped upon the Revolutionary Vanguards of
Speaker 1: the Earth. Yeah, it's something. It yeah, the all the
Speaker 1: titles are like having problems translating Total Mundo, which is
Speaker 1: like yeah, as you I couldn't find it written in
Speaker 1: the original Spanish. Maybe that's just because I was googling
Speaker 1: wrong and I didn't put a lot of time in it,
Speaker 1: but I found so many of Zapatis to text of
Speaker 1: preserves better in these weird English translations and I don't know,
Speaker 1: I they're written in English. Its supposed to be possible
Speaker 1: they're written in English the first time. I don't. I
Speaker 1: don't think this one. I think I think these. I
Speaker 1: think this particular one is a translation. Okay, but yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I've tried to find in Spanish actually, but so I'm
Speaker 1: just going to go with a translation. I think it's
Speaker 1: probably from Lib calm or a similar website with like aging,
Speaker 1: red and black asthetic vibes, but I love those websites.
Speaker 1: So it's had a bit. I hope you'll enjoy it.
Speaker 1: We don't see why we should have, like the ETA
Speaker 1: were kind of like reaching out in solidarity, and the
Speaker 1: Zapatista has probously been like now, Dude, we are not
Speaker 1: the same. You're not just like a set society. We
Speaker 1: are not the same people and we don't see why
Speaker 1: we would ask you what we should do or how
Speaker 1: we should do it. What are you going to teach us?
Speaker 1: To Kill? You a lists who speak badly about the struggle,
Speaker 1: to justify the death of children for the reason of
Speaker 1: the cause. We don't need or want your support or solidarity.
Speaker 1: We already have the support and solidarity of many people
Speaker 1: in Mexico. And the world. Our struggle has a code
Speaker 1: of honor inherited from our grilla ancestors, and it contains,
Speaker 1: among other things, respective civilian lives, even though they may
Speaker 1: occupy government positions that oppress us. We don't use crime
Speaker 1: to get resources for ourselves. We don't rob, not even
Speaker 1: a snack store. We don't respond to words with fire,
Speaker 1: even though many hurt us or lie to us. One
Speaker 1: could think that to renounce these traditionally revolutionary methods is
Speaker 1: renouncing the advancements of our struggle, but in the faint
Speaker 1: light of our history, it seems that we have advanced
Speaker 1: more than those who resort to such arguments. Like I
Speaker 1: deeply enjoy this critique. You can look it up. Was
Speaker 1: Big on killing people who a Tang gently related to
Speaker 1: the regime in any way, which I don't agree with.
Speaker 1: We should also add that they more or less definitively
Speaker 1: stopped doing stuff in eighteen that they had a press conference,
Speaker 1: and in their press conference, actually arenaldoor Tegi, who was
Speaker 1: a former member, said that they wanted to express a
Speaker 1: sorrow for the pain and suffering other people have endured.
Speaker 1: He goes on like we feel their pain and that
Speaker 1: sincere feeling leads us to affirm that it should never
Speaker 1: have happened. Sure, buddy, you want to say sorry because
Speaker 1: you did terrorism, but I do think that, like we should.
Speaker 1: We're talking about assassinations. Are gonna talking about assassinations a week.
Speaker 1: There are ways to do leftist political struggle that are
Speaker 1: not killing random civilians and their friends and family members
Speaker 1: and bombing supermarkets, and those are the better ways. But
Speaker 1: making Franco cries good sending Franco's successor into near Earth
Speaker 1: orbit is pretty funny. So we we enjoyed that one
Speaker 1: at least. If not, I think it is worth pointing out,
Speaker 1: like we weighed this prettyvious by by that line. But
Speaker 1: it does not get a free space, a free bask homeland.
Speaker 1: The Zappatistas have actually taken and still controlled territory, a
Speaker 1: thing that none of these like weird thrilla groups ever
Speaker 1: pulled off. So you know, yeah, they don't even get
Speaker 1: majority support really at any point. Like occasionally there will
Speaker 1: be people who are like yeah, you know what, like
Speaker 1: I agree with some of what they say, but the
Speaker 1: tactics are deeply flawed. You know, these keeping people, like
Speaker 1: torturing people, that kind of thing in the context of
Speaker 1: the dirty war with the state is important, but, yeah,
Speaker 1: they don't succeed right and I don't think you do
Speaker 1: succeed by by extorting the people you're claiming to liberate.
Speaker 1: That generally doesn't work well. So up the Zappatistas, I guess. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that seems like a good place to end. Yep, cool, yeah,
Speaker 1: this is this has ma could happen here. Join US
Speaker 1: tomorrow from more assassinations, and also the day after that,
Speaker 1: the day after that, the end, the day after that. Yep,
Speaker 1: I'm wait, hello, I'm the ghost of the Queen, and
Speaker 1: this is assassination week, and whose I actually was assassinated?
Speaker 1: It was the I R A. Hi. Welcome, welcome to
Speaker 1: assassination week, where we talk about all of the normal things.
Speaker 1: That's what we do. We talk about all the stuff
Speaker 1: that's totally normal and chill. We were just we were
Speaker 1: just debating why we keep having to talk about Nazi furies,
Speaker 1: differences between catboys and cat girls as they relate to Nazism, Um,
Speaker 1: and we're not going to get less stupid for today's
Speaker 1: assassination Um. So let's let's talk about Argentina. One of
Speaker 1: one are the ones that happened pretty shortly after we
Speaker 1: we planned on doing assassination week. Were like, well, there's
Speaker 1: another one to add to the list. So, yeah, Christina
Speaker 1: Fernandez de Kirchner has been kind of one of the
Speaker 1: most prominent politicians in Argentina for almost two decades now. Um,
Speaker 1: she was elected after she was elected president after her
Speaker 1: husband served as a term and then declined to to
Speaker 1: run for a second. But she was liked in two
Speaker 1: US and seven. After an eight year run as president,
Speaker 1: she's now the country's vice president. She was expected to
Speaker 1: make a bid to return to the top job next year.
Speaker 1: That's kind of up in the air. Um, she's kind
Speaker 1: of left dish. She she's kind of the populist, like leftist,
Speaker 1: kind of talk about perronism and like the weird ship
Speaker 1: that's going on here. Please talk about maybe, maybe do
Speaker 1: it in the in the music of Andrew Lloyd Webber.
Speaker 1: Oh God, no, okay, so there once was a man
Speaker 1: the parode, and he so he had been like he
Speaker 1: there's a whole thing. He gets like coude, he's like
Speaker 1: he like flees the country and while he's not, and
Speaker 1: you know this is a teatorship, and like, while he's
Speaker 1: not in Argentina. There's like this whole like like if
Speaker 1: they're a very classical populace movement, to the point where,
Speaker 1: like a lot of the theorizing about what populism is
Speaker 1: is theorizing about perronism. And what you get is like
Speaker 1: two completely different like political factions, like casting all of
Speaker 1: their sort of aspirations onto the like, like like onto
Speaker 1: the figure of like perrone, who's like in exile, and
Speaker 1: so you can, you can like, you know, you can,
Speaker 1: you can say that, like Perrone has whatever. Two perone
Speaker 1: supports us, like perome will be the guy, you'll save us,
Speaker 1: and like so you get, like you get this really
Speaker 1: weird thing where they were like they were like there
Speaker 1: are Peronas who are like fascists, there are Peronis, who
Speaker 1: are like communists. So you get the split that happens.
Speaker 1: You have these left Pronois of these right Peronius, like
Speaker 1: like when perrone comes back to the country, like the
Speaker 1: right Peronas start ordering the left wing Parnais. It's this
Speaker 1: whole fucking thing, and it's this, you know, and uh,
Speaker 1: this this this sort of like political formation like persists
Speaker 1: to an over military tatorship. It persists like through sort
Speaker 1: of like the trend, quote unquote transition to democracy, and
Speaker 1: like basically everyone who has ran Argentina since like the
Speaker 1: quote unquote transition to democracy has been a paronnais of
Speaker 1: some kind. Um Chrishnai is, the Krishner is from the
Speaker 1: left wing, sort of the newly sort of like revitalized left,
Speaker 1: like paroonism that comes around like the early two thousands.
Speaker 1: I mean she she's around. She's around actually in the
Speaker 1: nineties too, but in in early two thousand's it's sort
Speaker 1: of like, okay, so in two thousand one there's this
Speaker 1: massive series of protests and uprisings in in Argentina that,
Speaker 1: like I I would argue is like the last of
Speaker 1: like the Great Twentieth Century, sort of like working class revolutions,
Speaker 1: like people started occupying like people their factories, like did
Speaker 1: they go through like five prime ministers in like a month?
Speaker 1: Like they come very, very, very close to bringing down
Speaker 1: the government. And the thing that, the thing that sort
Speaker 1: of stabilized situation is a the and this is this
Speaker 1: is a serison protest against like I am a posterity right,
Speaker 1: which would be just like destroying the country. And the
Speaker 1: way this sort of gets stabilized is that Um you
Speaker 1: get a new you know, you, you, you, you get
Speaker 1: a new sort of like revitalized, like left peroneous populist thing.
Speaker 1: And this, the sort of populist deal is is twofold.
Speaker 1: It's like one, okay, we're gonna have a bunch of patrons,
Speaker 1: networks and we're gonna run like everything from like sort
Speaker 1: of like job networks kind of like down, like right
Speaker 1: right down to like hey, we will like give a
Speaker 1: dear neighborhood as long as you stay, as long as
Speaker 1: you sort of supported. And the second thing is, like
Speaker 1: they make that like the ruling class like cuts this
Speaker 1: sort and this is this is particularly like Fernandando Christian,
Speaker 1: like her husband's like cuts. This deal basically, sorry, Nestor Christner, cuts,
Speaker 1: just deal with with the working class, which is like okay,
Speaker 1: if you guys don't, if you guys stop trying to
Speaker 1: overthrow us, like we will give you a bunch of
Speaker 1: welfare programs, we will like do a bunch of stuff
Speaker 1: to like promoted the sort of like national economy. And
Speaker 1: so it's it's this, it's this whole it's it's looks
Speaker 1: like a left populism, but it's it's it's built on
Speaker 1: sort of like like this very explicit like we are
Speaker 1: going to buy off the working class. We can maintain capitalism,
Speaker 1: but the capitalism is gonna be slightly nicer. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: there's a few reactions that, including the reaction from the right,
Speaker 1: which is very much like these wealth help these all
Speaker 1: of these welfare programs are making people lazy and unwilling
Speaker 1: to do actual work, which is kind of worth some
Speaker 1: of our assassin, or attempted assassin, gets some of his
Speaker 1: ideology from Um. But yeah, so a week before this
Speaker 1: assassination attemptum Argentine and prosecutors announced that they're seeking a
Speaker 1: twelve year person sentence for Mrs Kirchner over accusations that
Speaker 1: she directed public roadway funds to a company owned by
Speaker 1: a friend of hers, accusations which she denies. I don't
Speaker 1: I have no bid in this fight Um, but I
Speaker 1: mean the thing I would note is, like, like almost everyone,
Speaker 1: so she she like well, particularly this Christian, but she
Speaker 1: was also sort of like considered like the soft wing
Speaker 1: of the pink tides, sort of like social democratic government
Speaker 1: to CON parwer this period. And like all of these
Speaker 1: people are kind of corrupt, but they're not like more
Speaker 1: corrupt than any other like politician in this region. But like,
Speaker 1: like every single one of these people eventually, like there's
Speaker 1: a whole movement to put them in prison because of
Speaker 1: corruption or something, and it's like, I mean, I don't know,
Speaker 1: like every like they're politicians, like what do you expect?
Speaker 1: Like the political rhetoric against Mrs Kirchner had intensified in
Speaker 1: recent weeks amid the final stages of her corruption trial.
Speaker 1: And while she is probably the country's most prominent politician,
Speaker 1: even serving as vice president, seen as more powerful than
Speaker 1: then the president, she's also a very polarizing figure. You know,
Speaker 1: her face is plastered on posts all around like working
Speaker 1: class neighborhoods Um, but Argentina's right has kind of made
Speaker 1: her out to be their boogieman. She's kind of their
Speaker 1: she's kind of like their top target. Um. Last week
Speaker 1: in one opposition lawmaker commenting on her case said that
Speaker 1: Argentina shouldn't bring back the death penalty um just for
Speaker 1: her case, just because she's like a woman we don't like,
Speaker 1: so we should kill her. As I got friends at
Speaker 1: the Written House Cultural Center. Yeah, would you call her
Speaker 1: a Femi Bolshy uh because they so. Yeah, but since
Speaker 1: the proposition of the twelve year sentence, hundreds of her
Speaker 1: supporters have been rallying, or were rallying outside of her
Speaker 1: house every night, Um, you know, calling her a victim
Speaker 1: of political persecution and doing these big, big rallies in support.
Speaker 1: And it was at such a rally on Thursday September one,
Speaker 1: just after nine PM, when Mrs Richner was returning home
Speaker 1: from presiding over a session at the Senate, accompanied by
Speaker 1: her security detail. She was greeting the massive supporters, letting
Speaker 1: the streets and signing copies of her book, and then
Speaker 1: a man rushed up through the crowd, aimed a semi
Speaker 1: automatic pistol interest away from her face and pulled the trigger,
Speaker 1: but the gun didn't go off. There's lots of footage
Speaker 1: of this incident. There was a lot of cavas rolling.
Speaker 1: It's kind of wild because she sticks the gun like
Speaker 1: right up in her face. It's just like really, really
Speaker 1: like this. This is this is, this is like something
Speaker 1: out of like fucking like like late Russia. It's it's
Speaker 1: very slapstick, it's very comical. Yeah, the Franch Ferdinand level
Speaker 1: of well, speaking speaking of President, President Um Fernandez said
Speaker 1: in an address to the nation later. That quote, Christina
Speaker 1: still alive because, for reasons that have not been confirmed technically,
Speaker 1: the UPEN, which was loaded with five bullets, did not fire.
Speaker 1: I can confirm technically that it is a piece of shit.
Speaker 1: You can find it was. It was a thirty. It
Speaker 1: was a thirty two, caliber three, wasn't it? It's a
Speaker 1: burst of thunder, isn't it? Oh, maybe I'm wrong. What
Speaker 1: wasn't it was was, isn't it? Like a specific gun?
Speaker 1: That's like absolutely, like they're kind of funny. They're these
Speaker 1: like the bursts, so that I think they made in Argentina.
Speaker 1: They might be made in Brazil, I think they made Argentina.
Speaker 1: They make knockoffs of other gun designs, more or less.
Speaker 1: So it's in the style of a PPK, which has
Speaker 1: good precedent for killing bad people. That's what hit the
Speaker 1: brained himself with. But this, this is a knockoff. This
Speaker 1: is a cheap one. It's one of the guns. It's
Speaker 1: approved for safe sail in California because it doesn't get bang,
Speaker 1: at least a version of this. I don't think the
Speaker 1: one that that this person used is actually a thunder,
Speaker 1: but yeah, it's just it's like I don't know. It's
Speaker 1: it's the it's like when you go and buy cheap
Speaker 1: knockoff of anything. You know, like it doesn't work. This
Speaker 1: want to paste be missing one of the grip screws actually,
Speaker 1: but yeah, it's very rusty. This person didn't think this
Speaker 1: three very well. I guess it's what we'll talk we'll
Speaker 1: talk a bit more about what was going on with
Speaker 1: a gun in a sack. You know what, I won't
Speaker 1: failed to matter. The vice president of the country. These
Speaker 1: these products and series products before the podcast. Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1: That's what it's what everyone says about butter. Help will
Speaker 1: will not help. You killed the vice president. Okay, so
Speaker 1: plug for ammonium nitrate. Federal Police arrested Fernando on Andre's
Speaker 1: Sabag Montel, a thirty five year old Brazilian man who
Speaker 1: has been living in Argentina for about twenty years. They
Speaker 1: recover the gun at the scene and then the next
Speaker 1: day they searched his apartment. He had hit hit at
Speaker 1: a studio apartment in like a working class sub verb
Speaker 1: of Oh boy, what's Oh boy, Um banarosh boy. I
Speaker 1: want to send this one to the chat let. Someone
Speaker 1: else said to Spanish and sort of speaking. It's a boot.
Speaker 1: There we go. I sent it to the regular cool
Speaker 1: scent O. No, that was I can't I can't read that.
Speaker 1: I have no idea. Then it's a capital. I don't know,
Speaker 1: I can't read it. I only I never say words,
Speaker 1: I only read it. Yeah, yeahs Buenos Buenos. I'm learning
Speaker 1: how to read ancient Greek for magic and that's way
Speaker 1: easier than this. I was quibbled back. Are you going
Speaker 1: to be like a Hebrew understander on twitter? Are you're
Speaker 1: gonna be like it means legal immigrants? When he says that, guys, no, only, only,
Speaker 1: only for ancient Greek, only only for Greeks to use,
Speaker 1: to use in spells. And I forget that people who
Speaker 1: aren't Americans don't pick up the sort of like smattering
Speaker 1: of terrible Spanish that like everyone in the US can
Speaker 1: kind of do. Yeah, no, I I grew up as
Speaker 1: a kind in Saskatchewan. No one's going to speak Spanish.
Speaker 1: They're just food nowns. You can you can just do
Speaker 1: like and but anyway. So they searched his studio apartment
Speaker 1: in apparently this big town point what, Buenos Aires? This
Speaker 1: is pepmately, but it's fine. But Anyway, they searched his apartment.
Speaker 1: They found just a hundred bullets just around, just like
Speaker 1: in various places, or, like they said, they just found
Speaker 1: a hundred bullets like like around his studio apartment. So
Speaker 1: that's that's that's the statement. It's amazing people haven't voiced
Speaker 1: a video and highly recommend looking it up. So Mr
Speaker 1: Montell is registered with tax authorities as an uber driver, Um,
Speaker 1: and he's not. Pretty soon people figured out that he's
Speaker 1: not just a regular dude. Um, there was, there's, there
Speaker 1: was a few signs, most most notably the sun and
Speaker 1: Red Tattoo on his elbow. That'll do it. So Which? Yeah,
Speaker 1: so battalion logo, right, James, shut the funk up. Shut
Speaker 1: the funk up, James. So, yes, a wave of people
Speaker 1: who think they're smart but are actually not, saw the
Speaker 1: sun and red and thought that he was doing this
Speaker 1: in solidarity with the ASA. Battalion. Um, isn't he like
Speaker 1: in a Duke and his group? I'll get to it.
Speaker 1: Not Quite, Um, but no, it's not as off battalion
Speaker 1: because the son and read does not come from the
Speaker 1: as off battalion, Um, as most people listening to this
Speaker 1: show should probably know. Already. His social media accounts got
Speaker 1: taken down pretty quick, but we do have a few
Speaker 1: archives which I'll be working off of to kind of
Speaker 1: paint the rest of this weird guy's picture. Um, he
Speaker 1: is steeped in a whole bunch of ECLECTIC and esoteric things.
Speaker 1: He has various esoteric symbols tattooed across his body. He
Speaker 1: follows a lot of extremely interesting facebook pages. Um, he is.
Speaker 1: He is, you know, is interested in stuff from far
Speaker 1: right groups, conspiracy theories, mysticism, freemasonry, Um, quote unquote, alchemy
Speaker 1: and the Cabala or again, quote unquote, the Cabala Um,
Speaker 1: across many, many kind of political, esoteric, fascist interests. It's
Speaker 1: kind of it's not very surprising. By the way, I
Speaker 1: just found out there's a whole page by that caliberisk.
Speaker 1: You're a guy and you were right and I was wrong.
Speaker 1: It's a thirty two a CP bastel. Thank you, thank you,
Speaker 1: thank you. It wasn't thirty two a CP. Huh Wow. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe if you spent less time making fun of my Spanish,
Speaker 1: we can learn something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't think
Speaker 1: in terms of levels of understanding. For a while he
Speaker 1: used the symbol of the tyrontal order of the Knights,
Speaker 1: which was a fringe kind of far right Argentine fascist
Speaker 1: mystical group from the nineteen eighties. But he had that
Speaker 1: as his facebook profile for a while. So he's like
Speaker 1: into the worst type of nerd things, like, instead of
Speaker 1: just playing D and D and getting it out of
Speaker 1: your system, he's like, I'm going to become a fascist
Speaker 1: and a wizard. You know, if he'd had a cultural
Speaker 1: center where he could play Dn d with people just
Speaker 1: saying talk, talk, Talk About Dragon Ball, play D and D. Yeah,
Speaker 1: do some really, really bad figure paging do and we
Speaker 1: wouldn't have had a problem here, but instead here we are.
Speaker 1: So would be like looking at his facebook page right
Speaker 1: you see stuff about like paganism, Vikings, death metal, not
Speaker 1: very good philosophers. These types of things don't immediately indicate
Speaker 1: a connection to the far right. Like you can't just
Speaker 1: take them by themselves, but when taken all together with
Speaker 1: the much more avert political things, you can get a
Speaker 1: fuller picture of who this person actually is. Um You know,
Speaker 1: it's like when I when I'm when I walking down
Speaker 1: the street and I see someone inside like a half
Speaker 1: skull mask. That doesn't immediately mean they're Nazi, but if
Speaker 1: I see the half skull mask and then's some questionable tattoos,
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, then that that that, then you're able
Speaker 1: to put that together. Um. So same thing with here, right,
Speaker 1: when someone's really into like Pagan Viking Shit, it may
Speaker 1: make me side eye until I see some things that
Speaker 1: really confirm my suspicions. I'm not gonna you know, you know,
Speaker 1: talk of this person as if they are a Nazi. Uh,
Speaker 1: this guy is not. He is a big Old Nazi.
Speaker 1: A few extremism researchers in Argentina have kind of made
Speaker 1: statements about this guy and what they're they're take on
Speaker 1: it is, as someone you know who actually is in Argentina, right,
Speaker 1: I'm an extremism researcher who lives in Oregon, which, as
Speaker 1: I so, I don't really have the same cultural understanding.
Speaker 1: You have a good grasp on the language, which is helpful.
Speaker 1: I have a good class on the language. When they're
Speaker 1: using magic words, when they're using words from real language,
Speaker 1: is not really Um. But no, they, they, they've they've
Speaker 1: talked about him like saying, uh, they're not. This dude is, quote,
Speaker 1: not explicitly connected to an organization, but they relate to
Speaker 1: the fascist ideology and compared him to kind of being
Speaker 1: the the types of, quote unquote, like Lone Wolf attackers
Speaker 1: that are not connected to any like specific political movement
Speaker 1: but almost just like an emanation of political ideas online,
Speaker 1: like in a Christ church buffalo in El Paso. Those
Speaker 1: were the places that that he was kind of compared to,
Speaker 1: is like people who aren't like inside a group but
Speaker 1: are willing to go out and take politics into the
Speaker 1: real world. But yeah, they compared his profile to other
Speaker 1: other types of like, you know, like load, quote Unquote
Speaker 1: Load Wolf, which is not a good term, but like
Speaker 1: what that means is like as someone who's like isolated,
Speaker 1: doing a mass shooting or a terrorist attack or an
Speaker 1: attempted a political assassination. Montel was described, as his friends
Speaker 1: as like eccentric and insecure and dishonest, um, but not
Speaker 1: necessarily openly violent or kind of openly invested in like
Speaker 1: political parties, which isn't surprising when you get someone into
Speaker 1: this like nerdy type of politics that's like, yeah, they're
Speaker 1: doing politics as it relates to being like a weird
Speaker 1: nerd online. But you know, who knows his his friends
Speaker 1: made us not not seeing this side of him at all.
Speaker 1: Like who, who can? Who can say? Because he did
Speaker 1: have a lot of fascist tattoos. So like like come on, guys, Um,
Speaker 1: on the he had like, like we said, son and
Speaker 1: red on his left elbow. On the back of his hands,
Speaker 1: he had a he had the iron cross and he
Speaker 1: had thor's hammer, but like like the like the traditional one,
Speaker 1: not like marvel movie shit. In a funny, maybe coincidence,
Speaker 1: this guy, the assassin, was actually interviewed twice on television
Speaker 1: in like months before the attack, just as an average
Speaker 1: citizen on the street, giving his opinion on politics. Um,
Speaker 1: one of them, he they were he was interviewed with
Speaker 1: his girlfriend and they were complaining about Argentina's social welfare programs,
Speaker 1: saying that they make people lazy. Um. And then in
Speaker 1: another more recent one, in another more recent interview, he
Speaker 1: was asked if he supported Argentina's new finance minister, which
Speaker 1: he responded Hell No, and then he offered his opinion
Speaker 1: as well, saying that he doesn't support Christina either. Christina's
Speaker 1: later the person he tries to kill, which you know
Speaker 1: I will say this. This is, this is not out
Speaker 1: of line for like whenever a journalist tries to pick
Speaker 1: a random person on the street, like it's like they're, they're, they're,
Speaker 1: they're always interviewing Hitler, Mussolini, like it's it's just every
Speaker 1: single time, like this guy is a repretentisative sample of
Speaker 1: those people. But yeah, so he gives up his unslicited
Speaker 1: opinion on Christina, who he then tries to murder on TV,
Speaker 1: just a month before he tries to kill her. Um.
Speaker 1: So now back at the scene, authorities said that. So
Speaker 1: the gun, they had five bullets inside. Um, the serial
Speaker 1: number was partially, partially removed. Um, it was. It was
Speaker 1: an older it was an older gun. It was not
Speaker 1: was was not brand new. Um, they said that the
Speaker 1: gun model had not, had not been manufactured in forty years. Um,
Speaker 1: but it's, uh, the IT looks like it was made
Speaker 1: until eight. Again, it's pretty old. Yeah, the gun could
Speaker 1: have failed to fire because it was broken or because
Speaker 1: it was just improperly loaded. Um, because have you come
Speaker 1: across the Argentine media articles which were explaining how to
Speaker 1: properly cock the hammer on one? That's a real, real,
Speaker 1: really interesting take. Stuff being like next time. So good
Speaker 1: stuff was always from from our friends in the media
Speaker 1: and reportedly, uh, the gun tried to try to get
Speaker 1: fired twice. So pull pull the Trigar at least two times,
Speaker 1: and when they recovered it there was no round chambered.
Speaker 1: So he may have just not like like. He could
Speaker 1: have just not cocked it at all, and that could
Speaker 1: be why I didn't fire like. It's unclear that this
Speaker 1: whole thing is really like the like. It's it's the
Speaker 1: Verdin Virgin Kirshner assassin versus the chat abbe assassin, that
Speaker 1: the Chad aube assassin went to the time of building
Speaker 1: his own weapon. He fired it twice, bullshots went off.
Speaker 1: Fucking Virgin, this guy zero fires it twice, doesn't doesn't
Speaker 1: build his own weapon. Zero bullets come out. Do we
Speaker 1: know if it's legal for this person to own? The
Speaker 1: guy in Argentina, it's heard they like a quiet legally
Speaker 1: and not being able to test it illegally and not
Speaker 1: being able to test it, because that would have also
Speaker 1: sort of got some attention to them. I believe it's illegal. Okay, yeah, well,
Speaker 1: either way, I should have just done the older, the
Speaker 1: old Abe method with the pipe gun and the battery,
Speaker 1: I guess. Well, do you know what isn't illegal, and
Speaker 1: that's assembling your open. No, it's uh, that's very illegal. where, uh,
Speaker 1: these products and services which support this podcast very not illegal.
Speaker 1: All right, we are we, we are back. I'm going
Speaker 1: to share with you, guys, the document I'm looking at, uh,
Speaker 1: so you can, so you can have have fun looking
Speaker 1: at all of these, uh, these symbols with me. Um,
Speaker 1: scroll to where the first picture is, Um, and then
Speaker 1: we'll then we're gonna go over all of the all
Speaker 1: of the weird ship that we have. This is what
Speaker 1: so we're looking at his facebook likes here. Yes, these
Speaker 1: are the facebook pages that he follows God. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: this is a bit of a Red Flag. There's some
Speaker 1: yikes here. So yeah, UM, thirty five years old. He
Speaker 1: has a Chilean father and an Argentine mother. He's lived
Speaker 1: in Argentina for at least twenty years. His profiles on
Speaker 1: facebook and Instagram we're taking down pretty soon. On his instagram,
Speaker 1: he described himself as a devout Christian. Sure, buddy here. Yes, yes, Um,
Speaker 1: he didn't comment on Brazilian politics very much. It was
Speaker 1: mostly interested in Argentina, Um, but and a lot of
Speaker 1: the esoteric Nazi stuff. Um, a lot of the weird
Speaker 1: like there's actually an interesting history of Esoteric Nazia stuff,
Speaker 1: specifically inside Argentina as well. Obviously a lot of Nazis
Speaker 1: fled to Argentina. They've kind of kind of been a
Speaker 1: fostered ground for them. But yeah, there's there's a lot
Speaker 1: of a lot of stuff here. Um, one of the
Speaker 1: pages he follows is named Camarada Miguel S S, which
Speaker 1: is just a picture of like Nazi soldiers in armed bands.
Speaker 1: Your understanding this? All right, that's a hit and nothing
Speaker 1: to me. There's there's there's a lot of stuff Biblioteca esoterica.
Speaker 1: But yeah, there's there's stuff from like Gnosticism, there's stuff
Speaker 1: on freemasonry, Um, all of like it's kind of like
Speaker 1: a it's a little bit of a basic bit here.
Speaker 1: This is like it's not for for this type of guy.
Speaker 1: It's not surprising. Obviously he's not like a normal dude,
Speaker 1: but for someone who's into esoteric fashion stuff, you're like, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: you hit all the things like you're I'm not surprised
Speaker 1: looking at your page. Um. So yeah, like we said,
Speaker 1: he's tattooed with Black Son Iron Cross and and a
Speaker 1: mule near Um now, obviously the iron cross the mule
Speaker 1: near are not symbols created by not ses. Uh. You know,
Speaker 1: they were previously existing symbols. Iron Cross existed in the
Speaker 1: PRUSSIAN Army. The mill neaire is an old nordic symbol.
Speaker 1: But both of these were UH CO opted by the
Speaker 1: Nazis Pretty Pretty Uh, pretty strongly, uh, and now have
Speaker 1: very strong associations. If you scroll down to the next page, Um,
Speaker 1: I have all of his tattoos here. So you can
Speaker 1: see a bit of the son of red on his
Speaker 1: on his elbow, you can see some of the hammer
Speaker 1: on his uh. I believe his right hand has the
Speaker 1: hammer and his left hand has the has the Iron Cross. Uh. So,
Speaker 1: I mean, what's this diamond thing on? I'm going to
Speaker 1: get to that. So the Black Son's son and Rad.
Speaker 1: We've talked about this on the show a lot. Um,
Speaker 1: it exists before as of a lot of libs, a
Speaker 1: lot of liberals now think it's an asaf battalian symbol.
Speaker 1: Uh No, I mean that this you know, uh, a
Speaker 1: lot of Nazi mass shooters have had son and red
Speaker 1: like patches and stuff for years and years and years.
Speaker 1: It's been very popular. It's also very popular among Esoteric
Speaker 1: Fascists also very popular among like you see a lot
Speaker 1: of wagner group guys with this, like you see there's
Speaker 1: a lot of Russian soldiers who have so. But no,
Speaker 1: and it makes sense as in its popularity, as like
Speaker 1: an esoteric fascist symbol. This guy is into all of
Speaker 1: the esoteric fascist ship, so he's of course he's going
Speaker 1: to have a black son Um. Uh. So the that
Speaker 1: now James mentioned another Tattoo Whi kind of looks like
Speaker 1: a diamond, which is the drazzle immursal, which is how
Speaker 1: how that's how I'm going to pronounce it, because nobody cares. Um.
Speaker 1: It means a great tall pillar. It's known as like
Speaker 1: the tree bridge that would connect the to like the celestial,
Speaker 1: like greater reality. The urmnsule plays an important role in
Speaker 1: like old GERMANIC paganism. Um, it was there probably was
Speaker 1: a physical sacrificial site adorned with like big pillars. Um.
Speaker 1: But I like like a lot of the old weird
Speaker 1: German ship. It got notified. Um Heindri Khindler founded the
Speaker 1: Society for research and teaching of ancestral heritage in nineteen
Speaker 1: which was this was in an organization with the aim
Speaker 1: of retracing, quote, ancient Aryan artifacts that support the master race, theory. Um.
Speaker 1: And Uh, he used one of these for the original
Speaker 1: symbol of this organization, which is all about like tracing
Speaker 1: back old Germanic like pagan ship, to be like here's
Speaker 1: evidence that we're the master race and all of our
Speaker 1: he's he's like trying to manufacture anthropology which supports all
Speaker 1: of the bad science that as we are Arians and
Speaker 1: we are better. So he's it's in this like fake
Speaker 1: and you know, it's like the Indiana Jones stuff, like
Speaker 1: this is, this, is, this is, this is what he's
Speaker 1: trying to do. Um. But that one of the symbols
Speaker 1: used for that was the immnstule or the Yah drazil. Uh.
Speaker 1: Possibly this symbol was also linked to Odin. It's unclear
Speaker 1: because the actual God of that represents, im Minstrel, is
Speaker 1: hard to trace. Um. But yeah, probably a sacred object
Speaker 1: in the form of a pillar that represents kind of
Speaker 1: the trunk of the Nordic Spiritual Cosmos that rises up
Speaker 1: into kind of the heavens. Yes, it's it's something. It's
Speaker 1: something the Nazis pilfered from like Germanic paganism turned it
Speaker 1: into Nazi ship and became this idea around the spiritual
Speaker 1: center of like German nationalism. It's like it's this this this,
Speaker 1: this spiritual thing that represents how pure we are as
Speaker 1: German nationalists. Anyway. Uh, obviously the shooter is not German,
Speaker 1: which is kind of so I wonder. I wonder why
Speaker 1: he has that. Huh, I wonder what he's trying to
Speaker 1: stay there. It just likes German people. It's interesting in
Speaker 1: the culture. But yes, he has one of these on
Speaker 1: his uh, I believe it's his left hand, um on
Speaker 1: on on his forearm. It's a, it's IT'S A it's
Speaker 1: a pretty intricate symbol. Uh. Yeah, that's like his best
Speaker 1: tattoo as well. Some of the other is a pretty robey. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the the millionaire Tattoo is not very good. Um, the
Speaker 1: the the iron cross is pretty faded. But but the
Speaker 1: great pillar once decent um in terms of like quality. Again,
Speaker 1: we're just we're just reviewing the esoteric fashion. Ye, yeah,
Speaker 1: best fashion. Um, look as fascination week is also fashion week. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's true. Would you say better or worse than the
Speaker 1: berries and the scheme mask at this point, I like
Speaker 1: the scheme masks. I think, I think it's slightly better.
Speaker 1: Take this, the thing that James was asking about previously.
Speaker 1: There's this really weird symbol that obviously looks kind of
Speaker 1: Swastika Ish. It's it's very like. It's, it's, it's, it's
Speaker 1: made up of like two different runes combined into one symbol. Um. This,
Speaker 1: this is, this is the kind of logo of an
Speaker 1: Esoteric Neo Nazi sect in Argentina founded by a very
Speaker 1: famous Argentina and Neo Nazi named Nimrod de Rosario, which
Speaker 1: I do like that his name is Nim Rod. Yeah, like,
Speaker 1: Oh God. So, yes, Um, I highlighted this, this thing.
Speaker 1: Do you want to try to try to pronounce that one?
Speaker 1: That one's, uh yeah, Argentina. So like. So, that is
Speaker 1: the name of the sect. It's the symbols a combination
Speaker 1: of the odal run and the Tyra Rune. Um, hence
Speaker 1: the name Tyro Dal or UH tirodal. It's, it's, it's,
Speaker 1: it's a combination of these things into this new thing. Um.
Speaker 1: So this is like very popular for this type of
Speaker 1: like kind of kind of esoteric Nazi writer. UH, inside,
Speaker 1: inside Argentina. He had so that the assassin or attempted
Speaker 1: assassin had a few of these things saved. Um, it
Speaker 1: was actually an organization like the order of nights, the
Speaker 1: herodal nights, or how we say that. I mean not really.
Speaker 1: It's just a facebook chival recorder. It's it's hard to say.
Speaker 1: I mean like no, they're not, they're not out there
Speaker 1: doing tons of ship. Um. Are they laughing? Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: they are. I mean all as soon as would any
Speaker 1: one of these groups called themselves like an order of
Speaker 1: the nights. They're always larping, like, they're always they're always
Speaker 1: doing kind of alert like whenever something like the templar
Speaker 1: isn't ship you're like, okay, edition recently who joined like
Speaker 1: the he's like sworn to protect Christians in the Holy Land.
Speaker 1: It was very funny. Yeah, like come on, yeah, all right,
Speaker 1: so he's a big yeah, he's got a lot of
Speaker 1: Christian stuff as well, like I'm looking at the and yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean that's that's kind of with all of like
Speaker 1: the GNOSTICISM stuff, which it was draws on a lot
Speaker 1: of like Christian imagery or Catholic imagery, and he didn't
Speaker 1: describe himself as a Christian on his instagram account, which
Speaker 1: still it's like okay, but you're you're into some weirder
Speaker 1: ship than that. But yeah, there is there, there is.
Speaker 1: There is some of a Christian basis for this style
Speaker 1: of like esoterrorism. I feel you're okay. Well, I just
Speaker 1: found it. I'm sorry, I just scrolled down. I didn't
Speaker 1: expect to see that. Expect to see what is it like?
Speaker 1: A CAM girl? Oh, yes, yes, he was. He was
Speaker 1: retweeting a cab girl on his twitter. Yes, so I
Speaker 1: have some other stuff here on the the Argentinian Patriot front, um,
Speaker 1: but please, different Patriot front to them, the American one.
Speaker 1: But that was just talking. I just wanted to talk
Speaker 1: briefly a bit about like Argentinian like uh, Nazism or fascism, um,
Speaker 1: much like Brazilian stuff with Basonero and the kind of
Speaker 1: the the the fascist groups that have been active in
Speaker 1: both countries for a while. Both of them have historical
Speaker 1: roots that go back to the twenties, twentie century. Their
Speaker 1: Ne Nazi and Neo Fascist groups that have been active
Speaker 1: in Argentina for decades. We've talked. We talked a little
Speaker 1: bit about this in the Kyle written has cultural center
Speaker 1: as well. Um, as it relates to like anti communist
Speaker 1: like stuff. Um, one of the kind of oldest groups
Speaker 1: of of of Argentinian fascism, uh, formed into a new
Speaker 1: group called Patriot front, or friente Patriot Patriota. How. How
Speaker 1: would you? How would you say that? How would you
Speaker 1: say that? Patrick, I was close, I was, you were
Speaker 1: really there. Form like it. I already thought you had it, Um.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so that's this new group. Patriot front, was
Speaker 1: formed in Um, but it's based off of a very famous, uh,
Speaker 1: far right leader called Aleandro Bandino. Um, just how again?
Speaker 1: That's how how I'm gonna do it. Uh. Should his
Speaker 1: name was? His name is highlighted here Italian, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's yeah, that's name. I mean, but he's, he's he's
Speaker 1: been active in Argentina's far right sphere for a long,
Speaker 1: long time, like he's he's kind of like the main
Speaker 1: guy who's trying to do stuff. He's six, sixty six
Speaker 1: years old. Um, he was born in Argentina. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was. Argentina has a massive Um Italian population. This
Speaker 1: has been like, this has been for sort of a
Speaker 1: long time. Like, yeah, and this sort of this cuts
Speaker 1: both ways politically, like a lot of those guys used
Speaker 1: to be anarchists, like there's a hugenicis huvement in Argentina
Speaker 1: for a long time. So a lot of weird fascists.
Speaker 1: So it is. It is. It is interesting that like
Speaker 1: this neo Nazi assassin again wasn't part of any of
Speaker 1: these groups. Wasn't really aligned with this Patriot front group,
Speaker 1: wasn't really aligned with any other kind of actual like
Speaker 1: far right political activism. Um, he was just into weird.
Speaker 1: He was into like dressing up as a as a
Speaker 1: wizard and talking about weird GNOSTICISM and Fascism online. And
Speaker 1: then he tried to kill the vice president. Um, did he?
Speaker 1: It was just like an impulse thing or it's just
Speaker 1: like a long planned I think he did live nearby.
Speaker 1: I mean, I believe it's. I mean she was in
Speaker 1: the capital city. So yeah, yeah, well, it's a it's
Speaker 1: a big place. You can walkably, you can, you can,
Speaker 1: you can get around if you're dedicated. People around the city.
Speaker 1: Of which cities? Again, I can't remember. I can't remember either.
Speaker 1: You know, I. I. WHO's to say? WHO's to say? So, yes,
Speaker 1: this is this is the story of the uh not
Speaker 1: assassination that was attempted a few weeks ago in Argentina
Speaker 1: and the guy behind it, who should have just learned
Speaker 1: to play D and D um like, honestly, yeah, well,
Speaker 1: he didn't know it's probably going to spend it on
Speaker 1: time in jail now. Probably. I mean he he did
Speaker 1: not kill the vice president, but he didn't put a
Speaker 1: gun into her face and tried to pull the trigger
Speaker 1: two times in front of tons of unfortunately, that gets
Speaker 1: you to attempted assassination. Yeah, I think. I think that's
Speaker 1: a I think, even if he didn't know how to
Speaker 1: chamber his round properly. Yeah, once again the master race prevails. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: and any any other notes on on this guy or
Speaker 1: the stuff in Argentina? Any any comments? Comments from the
Speaker 1: from the gallery? Not Fascinating stuff. This again, this is,
Speaker 1: this is. He is so much less cool and worse
Speaker 1: of an assassin than the big guy. This guy sucks. Yeah,
Speaker 1: compared to he's, he's he's the probably the least based
Speaker 1: guy we're gonna be talking about. Yeah, I think right. Like,
Speaker 1: at least ETA was successful in sending someone into as.
Speaker 1: You can buy Nimrod's books on Amazon Dot Com. Yeah, album,
Speaker 1: some of those, you should be able to do that.
Speaker 1: Come on, he has a twitter account. All right, let's
Speaker 1: just read some of these tweets in English or Spanish. UH, Spanish,
Speaker 1: but I can, I can trans I can do Google translate. Um, oh,
Speaker 1: talking about Zionist terrorism. Um, the myth of the Holocaust.
Speaker 1: I mean it's again, he's, he's, he's. What do you what?
Speaker 1: Do you expect physical reaction to that last one? But yes,
Speaker 1: so this, this was the guy that had the symbol,
Speaker 1: that that that had the weird, the weird combination ruined symbol,
Speaker 1: that that the assassin liked the books of and used
Speaker 1: the symbology of on his facebook. I just, I just
Speaker 1: sent the writers of twitter account to the cool sound chat. Um.
Speaker 1: I feel like once once I go to nimbrod's twitter
Speaker 1: page on the Hut to follow section, it recommends Alexander Dugan. Good.
Speaker 1: So that this this was the guy. I had vaguely
Speaker 1: read somewhere that this guy like, like, isn't he dead?
Speaker 1: I believe he's dead. So who's running this twitter account
Speaker 1: for a while? These are some some lackeys using the nineties.
Speaker 1: He died in seven. Okay, so this is like, yeah,
Speaker 1: this is like some lackey is posting honest account to
Speaker 1: plug his books. Um, yeah, the state. Yeah, he's retreating
Speaker 1: the Falange. It's funny. Look to the people he retweet.
Speaker 1: You go to their account and it's like this account
Speaker 1: is temporary unavailable because it violates twitter's media policy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I wonder. I wonder why. I wonder what Nazis. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I do like. Um, Nim Rod's website is down, which
Speaker 1: is good. That is that is nice. His official website
Speaker 1: is offline, so that's good. Um, it sucks that his
Speaker 1: books are on Amazon, but you know, it's good. What
Speaker 1: can you do? It is, it is. It is good
Speaker 1: that he's dead, Mum. So He is dead, the vice
Speaker 1: president is not and the assassin is probably gonna be
Speaker 1: in jail for a long time. And that's the episode.
Speaker 1: This is assassination week. Oh God, my left arm, pet
Speaker 1: it hurts so much. Land doesn't feel so good. Ronald
Speaker 1: Wilson Reagan, six, six, six, six letters in any way, whatever. Um,
Speaker 1: I'm Robert Evans. This is it could happen here, a
Speaker 1: podcast about assassinating world leaders. Um, that's why it's called
Speaker 1: it could happen here, and today we're talking about a
Speaker 1: time where it did, when John Hinckley Jr shot Ronald
Speaker 1: Wilson Reagan, Um with me today, James Stout, Garrison Davis,
Speaker 1: Um and of course, of course, the ghost of Ronald Reagan,
Speaker 1: who was a regular contributor to our to our podcasts,
Speaker 1: along with the ghost of the Queen. And Yeah, now
Speaker 1: the ghost of the Queen has joined the team. Very excited. Um. So,
Speaker 1: obviously John Hinckley shot Reagan. We're gonna get into a
Speaker 1: lot of detail about Mr Hinckley's life. This is something
Speaker 1: that is joked about a lot on the Internet, including
Speaker 1: by me. Um. But you know, it's it's it's interesting
Speaker 1: because there's there's two strains of people who will like
Speaker 1: come out and tell you it's not cool to joke
Speaker 1: about John Hinckley JR shooting Ronald Reagan, and one of
Speaker 1: them is right. which are the people who are like, well,
Speaker 1: actually like it's pretty messed up store or and he
Speaker 1: like it's it's kind of messed up to to laugh
Speaker 1: about this family's tragedy, because it was a family's tragedy,
Speaker 1: and the other people are like no, it's fucked up
Speaker 1: because he had the hots for Jodie foster and what
Speaker 1: was actually going on there was a lot more complicated,
Speaker 1: um than that. So we're gonna talk about all of
Speaker 1: the things that happened in this shooting, which was messed
Speaker 1: up and which I probably shouldn't joke about on twitter, Um,
Speaker 1: because it's actually really bleak. Um, and in order to
Speaker 1: understand both why it's sad on a personal level and
Speaker 1: why it's a tragedy for the entire country. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna start by talking about John Warnock Hinckley Jr,
Speaker 1: who was born on May twenty nine, nineteen and are more, Oklahoma,
Speaker 1: which is about two and a half hours from where
Speaker 1: I grew up in Oklahoma. Unlike me, John's Dad, who
Speaker 1: was John Warnock Hinckley senior, was the chairman and president
Speaker 1: of Vanderbilt Energy. So they had lots of money, a
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of walking around money and vanderbilt money. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and like most people who have good money, they don't
Speaker 1: stay in Oklahoma. Um, they have any owls and the
Speaker 1: vanderbilts big must, I'm certain they did, add owls to
Speaker 1: this story as you picture John's childhood. Um, so their
Speaker 1: rich as hell and they get the funk out of
Speaker 1: Oklahoma and moved to Dallas, Texas when John was four,
Speaker 1: which is so far weirdly like my life in a
Speaker 1: lot of ways, although I was a bit older. Um,
Speaker 1: maybe that's why I didn't get the madness. So that's
Speaker 1: not why. Normally, getting kids away from Oklahoma really really
Speaker 1: fix his stuff. But John was taken. John was taken
Speaker 1: to the only place more toxic than small town Oklahoma,
Speaker 1: a wealthy neighborhood in the Dallas Fort Worth Metroplex. He
Speaker 1: attended Highland Park High School, the school where I would
Speaker 1: later lose several speech and debate competitions and win one
Speaker 1: or two as well. Um, it's where, if you if
Speaker 1: you're in the DFW area, the rich kids who don't
Speaker 1: have good drugs go to highland park, but which rich
Speaker 1: kids with good drugs go to Jesuit because they're private
Speaker 1: school kids. But Highland Park is like the rich kids
Speaker 1: who are gonna like try to sell you a shitty
Speaker 1: ditch weed. Anyway, these are this is important Dallas Fort
Speaker 1: Worth context and I assume it was the same when
Speaker 1: he was a child. Um, as far as I've ever
Speaker 1: found any information, he was a pretty your normal young
Speaker 1: man for that time and place. UH, there's no one
Speaker 1: really seems to notice anything particularly different about him. Um,
Speaker 1: he does reasonably well in school. Uh, later in life
Speaker 1: he's going to express some racist thoughts in his diary
Speaker 1: and in other writings prior to the shooting. It doesn't
Speaker 1: really seem to have ever been a motivating factor in
Speaker 1: his life and to the extent that he had regressive beliefs,
Speaker 1: they seem to have been due to the fact that
Speaker 1: he grew up in a sheltered, rich, all white environment. Um,
Speaker 1: and that's not great for you. Um, shocked. Yeah, shocked
Speaker 1: in Texas no less. One right up in the New
Speaker 1: Republic describes his childhood this way. Perhaps it is fear
Speaker 1: of what lies outside that makes the interior of the
Speaker 1: family so rigid and subdued, like life in a well
Speaker 1: run bunker. The world of the hinkleys was the rootless
Speaker 1: middle class sun belt culture that nurtures pro family values,
Speaker 1: Christian fundamentalism and occasional mass murderers. Families move frequently, but
Speaker 1: without compromising their parochialism. Everywhere people are white. Christian Republican
Speaker 1: Joanne explains John's egregious prejudices by saying he had never
Speaker 1: been around people of other races. Somewhere outside there are
Speaker 1: malign elements, minority groups, rock musicians, big government and the
Speaker 1: cynical Gosmus cosmopolites who dominate the media. Mothers in this
Speaker 1: culture do not lavish attention on their children, but on
Speaker 1: their furniture. Now that is a coastal liberal elite like
Speaker 1: fucking paragraph, trying to describe like people who grow up
Speaker 1: in this situation as someone else who grew up in
Speaker 1: a similar area. I think most of that is pretty
Speaker 1: silly and, more to the point, it doesn't get to
Speaker 1: why John does this. We're getting to why John does this.
Speaker 1: It's not because he grew up sheltered and a little racist. Um.
Speaker 1: That is not why he shoots the president. Um. There is, however,
Speaker 1: a bit of that that that does strike me as accurate.
Speaker 1: It as again, a kid who grew up near here
Speaker 1: a couple of decades later, which is the description of
Speaker 1: his childhood as life and a well run bunker, which
Speaker 1: is kind of how it feels to live in these
Speaker 1: wealthy enclaves in the Dallas Fort Worth area. I grew
Speaker 1: up in plan Oh, which is, you know, a couple
Speaker 1: of steps down the economic rung from Highland Park, but
Speaker 1: not all that far. and Um, yeah, that's that's not
Speaker 1: a bad description of it. It just doesn't generally lead
Speaker 1: to kids shooting the president. More often it leads to
Speaker 1: them shooting up heroin and then dying of heroin overdoses,
Speaker 1: which was the big problem in Plano when I was
Speaker 1: a kid. That said, it's also worth noting that his
Speaker 1: parents are not, as far as I can find, like
Speaker 1: fifties stereotypes like his dad's not this super masculine guy
Speaker 1: who's like mentally abusive to his kid. His his MOM's
Speaker 1: not like checked out. Neither of them are against the
Speaker 1: idea that their son might have a mental illness and
Speaker 1: need help for it. In fact, it seems like they're
Speaker 1: kind of more open to the idea of reaching out
Speaker 1: for professional mental health for their kids than a lot
Speaker 1: of parents would have been at the same time period.
Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy six John Drops out of Texas tech
Speaker 1: to go to Hollywood and try to make it as
Speaker 1: a musician again. His parents are very supportive of him.
Speaker 1: One cannot say they didn't try to help their son
Speaker 1: live his dreams. When he gave up on music and
Speaker 1: he wanted to be a writer, they paid for him
Speaker 1: to take a class at Yale. We'll get to that
Speaker 1: in a second. It doesn't go well, UM, because he's
Speaker 1: yeah anyway. But John's not being honest with his ambitions,
Speaker 1: nor is he open with his parents about his mental health.
Speaker 1: We now know that John Developed Schizophrenia as a young
Speaker 1: man and had a series of psychotic breaks. When he
Speaker 1: would get money to do stuff like this Yale writing class,
Speaker 1: he would take it and buy guns. He did go
Speaker 1: to Yale, but it was mainly to Stalk Jodie Foster,
Speaker 1: who was going to Yale at the same time. Um. Now,
Speaker 1: this is all occurring in the late nineteen seventies and
Speaker 1: early nineteen eighties, which is the fucking Dark Ages for
Speaker 1: treatment of this particular condition and a lot of other conditions.
Speaker 1: There are not a lot of good options. Among other things,
Speaker 1: I just said, he's not open with his parents about
Speaker 1: the fact that his mental health is declining. I don't
Speaker 1: know how he really could have been. I don't unders.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's likely. It's certainly not the case.
Speaker 1: This didn't happen to John, but I don't think it's
Speaker 1: very likely for a young man in this time and
Speaker 1: place to be well equipped by his education or society
Speaker 1: to express what is going on in his head to
Speaker 1: his parents. Um, and you know to be fair to
Speaker 1: his parents, they're not equipped with a lot of like,
Speaker 1: you know, an ability to really help him out here,
Speaker 1: and they're doing the things you would want them to do. Again.
Speaker 1: They repeatedly are bringing in professionals to try to help. Um.
Speaker 1: None of it is particularly useful, but it's not for
Speaker 1: lack of trying. Um, like a lot of people who
Speaker 1: struggle with similar mental health issues, John Seeks refuge in fiction.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately for everybody, the movie that he finds himself most
Speaker 1: drawn to is taxi driver, and I think most people
Speaker 1: are aware of this. It's a bad choice. That's a
Speaker 1: really bad choice. Yes, if he had found maybe adventure
Speaker 1: time or something, it would have been a lot healthier,
Speaker 1: but instead taxi driver. If you haven't seen it, there's
Speaker 1: the and characters, his kid, Travis bickle, played by a
Speaker 1: very young Robert Deniro. It is weird to watch him
Speaker 1: because we're also used to old man Bob Deniro, Um,
Speaker 1: who is thinking about assassinating like a presidential candidate and
Speaker 1: then kind of through movie magic, rescues a child prostitute
Speaker 1: played by Jodie Foster, from a pimp. Um and Hinckley
Speaker 1: thinks the movie is kind of talking to him and
Speaker 1: providing him with like information about how he can fix
Speaker 1: his own life. He starts dressing like Travis bickle. He
Speaker 1: starts wearing like an army jacket and boots and drinking
Speaker 1: the way that bickle drank. He starts buying guns. He
Speaker 1: gets really into guns for you know. Um, he starts,
Speaker 1: you know, in letters that he's writing home to his parents.
Speaker 1: He starts talking about this relationship he has with a
Speaker 1: woman named Lynn, who isn't real but who sounds a
Speaker 1: lot like one of the women that Travis bickle has
Speaker 1: an interest with in the movie. Um and yeah, this
Speaker 1: is kind of the start of his obsession with Jodie Foster,
Speaker 1: and there are people who will like say that he's
Speaker 1: a pedophile because she's thirteen in the movie. That doesn't
Speaker 1: seem to be the case when he is actually stalking
Speaker 1: her and most obsessed with her, she is eighteen and
Speaker 1: he is stalking her in real life and calling her
Speaker 1: on the phone and stuff, which is like bad and
Speaker 1: messed up. But he's not into her because she's young
Speaker 1: in this movie. He's into her because he's he's kind
Speaker 1: of losing his mind and obsessing with her right. So,
Speaker 1: while this is all going on kind of in the
Speaker 1: late stages of this his parents bringing a psychiatrist. Um. Again,
Speaker 1: they're they're willing to fund and support him and seeking
Speaker 1: professional help. The doctor they wound up getting for him.
Speaker 1: I don't know if he's a bad doctor for the time,
Speaker 1: but he's wrong as Hell. He kind of looks at
Speaker 1: the fact that John has been normal, quote unquote and
Speaker 1: quote unquote, in high school and like at the start
Speaker 1: of his college career, and so he looks at this
Speaker 1: kid who's like seems to be developmentally normal up to
Speaker 1: a certain point and then goes off the rails and says, well,
Speaker 1: it's because you were sheltered and coddled by your rich
Speaker 1: parents and you're just lazy right. That's that's that's what
Speaker 1: this guy says. So a big part of his is
Speaker 1: like advice to mom and dad is you gotta cut
Speaker 1: him off. You can't. Can't keep giving him stuff, can't
Speaker 1: keep giving him money, can't keep taking care of him. Um.
Speaker 1: So while this is happening and this guy is like
Speaker 1: making them make plans for John to be less reliant
Speaker 1: on his parents, John Hankley is getting way more into guns.
Speaker 1: He does a lot of target shooting. He also plays
Speaker 1: a lot of Russian roulette with himself alone in his basement,
Speaker 1: which is not not great. Um, in Christmas of nineteen
Speaker 1: seventy nine, he takes a very famous photo of himself
Speaker 1: holding a handgun to his temple. Now John is increasingly
Speaker 1: harassing jodie foster in this period. Now, what he's doing
Speaker 1: is not he's not just obsessing with her and it's
Speaker 1: one sided. He is reaching her on the phone. They
Speaker 1: talk a couple of times. Yes, they do. Uh. She
Speaker 1: is always very terse in their calls. Always, you can
Speaker 1: tell is kind of frightened, but is very controlled and careful.
Speaker 1: I would describe the way she handles this is very
Speaker 1: responsible and, like you can tell, she's talked with like people,
Speaker 1: I think, like her manager or something, and been like
Speaker 1: I have been advised, like, I don't want you calling it.
Speaker 1: She's very tries to be very clear here, Um, and
Speaker 1: I think handles this as well as a person can
Speaker 1: possibly handle, you know, being stalked in this way. I
Speaker 1: believe he's able to get her number because, like, it's
Speaker 1: the eighties and people just have numbers in the phone book. Um, again,
Speaker 1: she's kind of taking a break from Hollywood right now
Speaker 1: and is going to Yale. Um, his obsession with foster
Speaker 1: veers between these kind of like fantasies of like harming
Speaker 1: her or harming a guy that she's with, or harming
Speaker 1: himself and eventually harming the president of the United States.
Speaker 1: Now he is not want to shoot the president for
Speaker 1: political reasons. He has no kind of particular anger at
Speaker 1: the president that he wants to work out with a gun.
Speaker 1: He wants number one to impress her and he wants
Speaker 1: everyone to know his name and know his name associated
Speaker 1: with Jodie foster right because, again, he's very ill. Um,
Speaker 1: he starts following Jimmy Carter around. He goes to like
Speaker 1: three different Jimmy Carter rallies in D C and in Ohio.
Speaker 1: There's video of him twenty feet away from Carter at
Speaker 1: one point. He probably has a gun on him. Um,
Speaker 1: like he gets really close to Carter. Again. One of
Speaker 1: the through lines here is that, like, presidential security wasn't
Speaker 1: great in nineteen yeah, it's not very good. Um, Carter
Speaker 1: John Thinks about shooting Carter. He's probably there and equipped
Speaker 1: to do it, but he just can't get himself into
Speaker 1: the frame of mind to shoot Jimmy Carter, which is
Speaker 1: understandable because it is. It is Jimmy Carter right, like
Speaker 1: he is a hard man to want to shoot to death.
Speaker 1: So there's a moment where he like yeah, so he's
Speaker 1: he's kind of bouncing around. After this period where he
Speaker 1: like is he thinks about shooting Carter, but he doesn't.
Speaker 1: He is in communication with this Nazi ideologue and they
Speaker 1: almost have a meeting but they don't. Um, that's all
Speaker 1: kind of obscure, kind of unclear. And then on October
Speaker 1: six nineteen eighty, he gets arrested at the Nashville airport
Speaker 1: with a briefcase full of handguns and a pair of handcuffs.
Speaker 1: Now hops has been in this situation. The gun bag
Speaker 1: and oops. Yeah, he says he's just trying to sell them,
Speaker 1: and they're like, well, you still can't get on a
Speaker 1: plane with a bunch of guns, John Inkley j this
Speaker 1: is yeah, this is pre night eleven, so you have
Speaker 1: to assist. He's looking weird. He's like sweaty and in
Speaker 1: an army jacket and talking to him and they're like, well,
Speaker 1: we've literally never searched a single person before in the
Speaker 1: entire life of this airport. But let's check this guy.
Speaker 1: What's this massively heavy brief case? There's a fucking there's
Speaker 1: a dude just walking in with a Stinger and they're
Speaker 1: like no, no, let that guy on, but we gotta
Speaker 1: check John Inkley. Um, so he flies to Dallas where
Speaker 1: he buys more handguns and some explosive twenty two caliber bullets.
Speaker 1: We will talk about that in a little bit, but
Speaker 1: they are explosive bullets for twenty two. Yes, they are
Speaker 1: bullets that are to explode on impact. Is He like
Speaker 1: reading soldier of Fortune Magazine at this point? Because this
Speaker 1: is nobody. He's like a gun culture. So I haven't
Speaker 1: we have to assume. I think his family's kind of
Speaker 1: casually conservative. He is kind of maybe, as is embodied
Speaker 1: by the Nazi thing, probably dabbling in some areas. Again,
Speaker 1: I think that's that's certainly not good for him. It's also,
Speaker 1: I don't think politics. I haven't seen any real evidence
Speaker 1: that politics is a motivating factor. And what this guy
Speaker 1: is doing. Um, he does get explosive bullets. Probably helps
Speaker 1: that he has explosive bullets in terms of making this
Speaker 1: less dangerous. These are not good explosive bullets. They are
Speaker 1: meant to be fired out of a larger weapon than
Speaker 1: he fires them out of. But they are supposed to. Basically,
Speaker 1: the idea is that these are twenty two caliber rounds,
Speaker 1: so the idea is that this little explosive charge in
Speaker 1: them makes them more like a thirty eight. So we're
Speaker 1: not talking about like military grade weaponry or anything here.
Speaker 1: Why is he doing? You may not know, of course,
Speaker 1: but like if he's a massive gun dog, it's not
Speaker 1: a massive no, gun culture is different than right. He's
Speaker 1: buying a bunch of handguns. He's shooting a lot. I
Speaker 1: don't know that it would be. He's not particularly good
Speaker 1: or knowledgeable with right. Okay, yeah, but gun cultures very
Speaker 1: it's harder to get information about guns. Right. Maybe the
Speaker 1: day he would have gotten a lot more into like
Speaker 1: just flipping through magazines exactly. You can't look something up online. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: he's twenty two good for assassination, just exactly. And this
Speaker 1: is also like this is what he can afford. Right.
Speaker 1: He gets kind of a he's lost his better guns, right,
Speaker 1: they have their property of the states. So he winds
Speaker 1: up with this twenty two and he gets these explosive
Speaker 1: bullets to try to make it give more of a kick.
Speaker 1: Obviously the thing that's going on in the background here
Speaker 1: is that Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan having a presidential
Speaker 1: election which Reagan wins. Um. We'll talk a little bit
Speaker 1: about kind of that a bit later, but that happens.
Speaker 1: Reagan is the president elect. Um He flies home. Hinckley
Speaker 1: flies home. Things continue to deteriorate in his own life.
Speaker 1: He's continued to travel around. John Lennon is assassinated and
Speaker 1: he kind of goes a little bit nuts over that
Speaker 1: because he loves John Lennon. Also might kind of think
Speaker 1: that he is John Lennon. So that does not help
Speaker 1: his mental state. He visits the the the what is it?
Speaker 1: The shrine to him in New York at one point
Speaker 1: and kind of when he gets back in March of nine,
Speaker 1: his dad cuts him off basically like says, you know,
Speaker 1: you've got your here's your car, here's two hundred dollars.
Speaker 1: We can't take care of you anymore, John. And I
Speaker 1: think this is his dad basically trying to take that
Speaker 1: psychiatrist advice of like it. We need to have tough love.
Speaker 1: He has to be forced to kind of get his
Speaker 1: ship together. But John Hinckley is not really capable of
Speaker 1: getting his ship together because he is profoundly ill. So
Speaker 1: he uses that money to pay for hotel rooms in
Speaker 1: Denver where he sits alone watching television with a gun. Um.
Speaker 1: Not Great Treatment for schizophrenia. Reagan wins the election, uh,
Speaker 1: in what was a sweep electorally but fairly tight in
Speaker 1: terms of popular vote. He got like fifty point five
Speaker 1: percent of the popular boats something like that. It's pretty close.
Speaker 1: And soon after taking office he gets hammered on a
Speaker 1: bunch of stuff. Right, the economy is not great. He's this,
Speaker 1: he's he's back. He's like going for a bunch of
Speaker 1: far right policies to unwind the new deal, a lot
Speaker 1: of which are unpopular and some of which he said
Speaker 1: he wasn't gonna do, and debates with Carter. He's not.
Speaker 1: He doesn't have the kind of traditional grace period most
Speaker 1: presidents get where they're broadly popular. Right, Um, it's not
Speaker 1: looking great for kind of the midterms, is what I'm
Speaker 1: getting at Um. So Reagan's staff is struggling to right
Speaker 1: the ship, trying to figure out like, how do we
Speaker 1: how do we fix all this, Reagan or Hinckley, while
Speaker 1: this is going and gets convinced that like shooting the
Speaker 1: president is a pretty good idea. He doesn't have a
Speaker 1: lot of other options. He's kind of like running out
Speaker 1: of money and he's able to get a little bit
Speaker 1: more from his mom, but he's he's increasingly unhinged and
Speaker 1: alone and desperate. On March twenty nine, he checks into
Speaker 1: a hotel in D C where he finds in a
Speaker 1: local paper the president's schedule. He loads his twenty two
Speaker 1: caliber revolver, he writes a letter to Jodie foster and
Speaker 1: he travels to the Hilton, where the president is set
Speaker 1: to deliver a speech to union workers. Here is how
Speaker 1: John's letter to uh to her ends. Quote. I will
Speaker 1: admit to you that the reason I'm going ahead with
Speaker 1: this attempt now is because I just cannot wait any
Speaker 1: longer to impress you. I've got to do something now
Speaker 1: to make you understand, and no one certain terms, that
Speaker 1: I am doing all of this for your sake. By
Speaker 1: sacrificing my freedom and possibly my life, I hope to
Speaker 1: change your mind about me. This letter is being written
Speaker 1: only an hour before I leave for the Hilton Hotel. Jody,
Speaker 1: I'm asking you to please look into your heart and
Speaker 1: at least give me the chance, with this historical deed,
Speaker 1: to gain your respect and love. I love you forever,
Speaker 1: John Hankley. It's not great. Yeah, yeah, not a great
Speaker 1: letter to get, not a great letter to ascend was.
Speaker 1: Was this actually delivered in the mail? I believe so. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think this she ends up getting this. I mean,
Speaker 1: like she has to come to court and stuff when
Speaker 1: he goes on trial. It's like something he kind of
Speaker 1: demands and I think she does to just make it
Speaker 1: easier for things to move along. Um, obviously she. She
Speaker 1: does nothing wrong at any point in this process. She's
Speaker 1: just living her life and this guy is out of
Speaker 1: his out of out of his head and has easy
Speaker 1: access to guns, Um, which is a problem. At PM
Speaker 1: on March nine, one John Hinckley JR opens fire at
Speaker 1: the president's entourage from just a few feet away. Reagan
Speaker 1: had been speaking to a bunch of union guys at
Speaker 1: this this thing at the Hilton Anyway, and they're kind
Speaker 1: of like walking out into towards the Limo when this happens.
Speaker 1: John's first shot hits James Brady, the press secretary and
Speaker 1: former PR man for Philish loafly in his head. Uh.
Speaker 1: He then wounds a police officer and a secret service agent.
Speaker 1: He actually does not hit. Probably does not. I don't
Speaker 1: I think there's still a little bit of debate because
Speaker 1: it's like ballistics are kind of fucky. But he probably
Speaker 1: doesn't directly hit Reagan. Instead around fragments and bounces off
Speaker 1: the armored limousine, penetrating the president's lung. None of the
Speaker 1: ex past of bullets explode because they're not the right
Speaker 1: bullets for the gun. The barrel is too short. Um,
Speaker 1: so it doesn't. It might even do less damage than
Speaker 1: it would have done, although maybe they fragment because they're
Speaker 1: these weird explosive bullets and that's why Reagan gets hurt anyway.
Speaker 1: Hard to say. Nobody really understands ballistic style that well.
Speaker 1: Today there's a lot of debate over how all this
Speaker 1: stuff works. Reagan had been in office for sixty nine
Speaker 1: days and no real plan existed for what to do
Speaker 1: if the president gets shot and is alive but is
Speaker 1: unable to do the job of the president. Um, fucking
Speaker 1: George H W Bush is in the air a bunch
Speaker 1: of this time and like people can't reach him, Um,
Speaker 1: and they're like, but he's they're saying you need to
Speaker 1: come back to Watchington now. Um. So kind of the
Speaker 1: people running the country for a few hours is Al Hague,
Speaker 1: the Secretary of state, and like a room full of
Speaker 1: guys in the cabinet who were all disagreeing about everything
Speaker 1: and none of whom are constitutionally supposed to be running
Speaker 1: the country. Um, it's a real big problem. Like the
Speaker 1: fucking like the the press ask at one point, because hey,
Speaker 1: it goes out there tripul like hey, the president's in surgery,
Speaker 1: and they're like, well, who's? WHO's in charge, like with
Speaker 1: the nukes and stuff? WHO's running the country? And he's like,
Speaker 1: we got a whole room for the guys. Don't worry,
Speaker 1: it's all fine, and they're like, is that what the
Speaker 1: law says, because I don't think that's how it's supposed
Speaker 1: to go. Um, it's it's not great. It's actually a
Speaker 1: real problem. And they do they make a bunch of
Speaker 1: changes after this to make sure that, like, we never
Speaker 1: don't know who the president is when, if this kind
Speaker 1: of thing happens, at least Um. But on a political
Speaker 1: level this is fucking gangbusters. For the Reagan administration, and
Speaker 1: I'M gonna quote from a write up an Elpie here.
Speaker 1: The assassination attempt silenced criticism of his administration at a
Speaker 1: critical point early in his term. Explains H W brand's,
Speaker 1: author of the biography Reagan the life in an email
Speaker 1: the good humor he exhibited during his recovery. He spent
Speaker 1: only twelve days in the hospital, convinced many skeptics, some
Speaker 1: of some of his followers believe that God had forgiven
Speaker 1: him to allow him to finish his work, and it
Speaker 1: is possible that Reagan thought so too. On anniversary of
Speaker 1: the assassination attempt, journalist Del winton Wilbur published raw hide down,
Speaker 1: a thorough investigation full of revelations of what happened that day.
Speaker 1: The book is written in the style of true crime
Speaker 1: and its title as a reference to the Secret Service
Speaker 1: Code name given to Reagan, raw hide. Joe Biden's code
Speaker 1: name is Celtic and Donald Trump's was mogul. It reaches
Speaker 1: two important conclusions. Firstly, it argues that Reagan became the
Speaker 1: first president since Eisenhower to serve two terms because of
Speaker 1: the way he and his team handled the assassination attempt,
Speaker 1: and secondly, the White House did not reveal the seriousness
Speaker 1: of Reagan's injuries. He walks into the hospital and then
Speaker 1: stops breathing and collapses. Um, like. He walks in specifically
Speaker 1: because he wants to be seen walking in, and it's
Speaker 1: like they don't know that he's been shot at first.
Speaker 1: It's not like bleeding a bunch outside, he's bleeding internally.
Speaker 1: So it's this is like legitimately the best case scenario.
Speaker 1: It would have been hard to figure out what had
Speaker 1: happened to him, kind of because you can't immediately tell
Speaker 1: that he's bleeding. A lot of people have been shot,
Speaker 1: and so everyone just kind of assumes he's having a
Speaker 1: heart attack, which is why they take him to the hospital.
Speaker 1: He thinks, actually, I think he believes that his secret
Speaker 1: service agent broke his ribs getting him into the Limo. Um,
Speaker 1: but if they've taken him to the White House first,
Speaker 1: he would have fucking died. He loses half of his
Speaker 1: blood in the surgery, like it's that's which is like
Speaker 1: bad if you lose half your blood. That's not like
Speaker 1: a great injury. Um, just it's his lung collapsing. Is
Speaker 1: that what's happening? Like, yeah, they've got him on oxygen
Speaker 1: and stuff. He's like barely able to joke with the doctors,
Speaker 1: which he does, which is one of the things that
Speaker 1: like goes viral from this and makes him so popular
Speaker 1: because he's he's Yucking it up old Ronnie um his. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is believed. There's a number of massive long term
Speaker 1: fucking consequences. One of them is that this is why
Speaker 1: Nancy brings in Joan quickly the astrologer like this is
Speaker 1: when she you can refer back to behind the bastards
Speaker 1: two part or on the Reagan astrologer. But this is
Speaker 1: why the Reagan astrologer becomes like they start. They stopped
Speaker 1: having him do events when the astrologer says it's a
Speaker 1: bad day for it and ship because, like Nancy, this
Speaker 1: kind of breaks her and it also kind of breaks Ronald.
Speaker 1: He's not the same man after getting shot, which, to
Speaker 1: be fair, he is seventy when this happens. So getting
Speaker 1: shot in the lung at seventy, most people are gonna
Speaker 1: come back all the way. This is also probably doesn't
Speaker 1: help the Alzheimer's May accelerate the timetable there. But on
Speaker 1: a political level this goes fucking great for the Republicans
Speaker 1: and it allows them to do a lot of really
Speaker 1: fucked up ship, and I'M gonna quote from CNN here. Today,
Speaker 1: Reagan is the only modern president who receives high marks
Speaker 1: from Republicans, Democrats and independence alike. A look at the
Speaker 1: polls can quantify the roots of this enduring goodwill. Despite
Speaker 1: an electoral landslide over Jimmy Carter with a forty four
Speaker 1: state win in nineteen eighty, Reagan won a narrow popular margin,
Speaker 1: a fifty point seven percent. Moreover, gallops valuable presidential poll
Speaker 1: tracker shows that Reagan's approvable ratings were significantly split along
Speaker 1: partisan lines after his nineteen eighty one inauguration, with seventy
Speaker 1: four percent Republican support and fifty three percent from independence,
Speaker 1: but thirty eight percent from Democrats. When Reagan came back
Speaker 1: to capital in April to push for his economic recovery act,
Speaker 1: he was greeted by a hero's welcome in a three
Speaker 1: minute standing ovation. He leveraged his political capital to help
Speaker 1: publish pass his agenda. Before the end of the summer,
Speaker 1: the Reagan tax cuts had passed the House of Representatives,
Speaker 1: led by Democratic speaker tip O'Neil, and the Republican controlled Senate.
Speaker 1: Reducing the top tax rates from a confiscatory and unleashing
Speaker 1: an entrepreneurial era. That's how CNN categorizes that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Um,
Speaker 1: and in Reagan wins forty nine states and the popular vote.
Speaker 1: It is very clear kind of how this happens and
Speaker 1: what this allows Reagan to do. It's fascinating because you
Speaker 1: have in Britain, like, less than a year later, right,
Speaker 1: we have Margaret Thatcher right like, who is similarly not
Speaker 1: doing very well, until she gets to go to war
Speaker 1: for two tiny little cold islands in the Atlantic and
Speaker 1: no one knew about before, and then they proceed to
Speaker 1: just ravage like the like post World War Two social
Speaker 1: democracy consense. Just suck it up and fucking here we are.
Speaker 1: Now here we are two and people are going I
Speaker 1: have called in Britain this winter. I will say in
Speaker 1: terms of just to be fair, one of the things
Speaker 1: people will say is a positive from this, is that
Speaker 1: this is one of the things that helps push the
Speaker 1: arms treaty deals with the Soviet Union, because Reagan is
Speaker 1: like God saved me for a reason, and maybe it's
Speaker 1: to make nuclear war less likely. That's a bigger topic
Speaker 1: than today. It's a thing that he will claim and
Speaker 1: generally speaking, the fact that the Soviet Union and Reagan
Speaker 1: started talking about nukes during this period is not a
Speaker 1: bad thing. Um. Always good to be talking about nukes, Um.
Speaker 1: But yeah, what I will say, if we're looking at
Speaker 1: kind of the only clearly good thing that came out
Speaker 1: of the shooting, it's the fact that the justice system
Speaker 1: actually worked in this one instance pretty much exactly how
Speaker 1: you would want it to. Hinckley was clearly not mentally
Speaker 1: comm potent to understand his actions, what he had done
Speaker 1: or to stand trial, and he was declared not guilty
Speaker 1: by reason of insanity. His father, tearful took blame for
Speaker 1: the shooting for cutting his son off from resources. The
Speaker 1: psychiatrist who had botched his diagnosis admitted his mistakes on
Speaker 1: the stand and expressed regret. Hinckley was sent to a
Speaker 1: psychiatric facility where he received decades of treatment, and the
Speaker 1: treatment seems to have really helped him. On December seventeen,
Speaker 1: two thousand three, a federal judge ruled that Hinckley was
Speaker 1: entitled to unsupervised visits with his parents. This is five
Speaker 1: years before his dad died, so they get time together again.
Speaker 1: In two thousand seven he has a request for unsupervised
Speaker 1: visits as long as one month. This is denied, not
Speaker 1: because of any problems but because of issues the hospital
Speaker 1: had not taken to prepare for the transition. In July
Speaker 1: of two thousand and sixteen, Judge Paul Friedman concluded that
Speaker 1: Hinckley did not pose a threat to himself or others
Speaker 1: and ordered him released. Um the conditions initially limited him
Speaker 1: to his residence, residence where he lived with his mother
Speaker 1: in parts of southern California. He was obviously bidden from
Speaker 1: contact with pastor president, presidents of the United States or
Speaker 1: any of their family members or graves from banning. He
Speaker 1: was banned from contact with Jodie foster or other entertainers.
Speaker 1: He was prohibited from watching violent movies, television or online media.
Speaker 1: In two thousand eighteen, a restriction confining him to his
Speaker 1: mother's house ended. He can now live anywhere he wants,
Speaker 1: with doctor's approval. Uh and on September one John Hinckley
Speaker 1: Jr age sixty six, was approved for unconditional release by
Speaker 1: district judge Paul Friedman. Friedman noted that, quote, very few
Speaker 1: patients at St Elizabeth's Hospital have been studied more thoroughly
Speaker 1: than John Hinkley and again that's pretty much how it
Speaker 1: auto work right, like, yeah, he shoots the president, but
Speaker 1: clearly because he's sick and you don't just punish sick
Speaker 1: people when they don't know what they've done. So he
Speaker 1: gets treated for decades until he's better and now he's able. Yes,
Speaker 1: it's really good. Quite surprising. It is very surprising, and
Speaker 1: part of why it's surprising is that one of the
Speaker 1: other negative lingering effects of John Hinckley attempting to shoot
Speaker 1: the president is that a lot of changes are made
Speaker 1: in many states to make it much less likely that
Speaker 1: people benefit from the same understanding judicial system that John
Speaker 1: Hinckley Jr does. Okay, I'm gonna quote now from a
Speaker 1: write up from famous trials DOT COM, which has a
Speaker 1: pretty good, pretty good bit on just kind of everything
Speaker 1: that happened here. It's a fair, pretty fair summary. I
Speaker 1: think within a month of the Hinckley verdict the House
Speaker 1: and Senate we're holding hearings on the insanity defense. A
Speaker 1: measure proposed by Senator Arlen Specter shifted the burden of
Speaker 1: proof of insanity to the defense. President Reagan expressed his
Speaker 1: support for the measure with the comment if you start
Speaker 1: thinking about even a lot of your friends, you would
Speaker 1: have to say, Gee, if I had to prove they
Speaker 1: were saying, I would have a hard job. Right. Tell
Speaker 1: us more about you that, which maybe that says a
Speaker 1: lot about your administration, who are, by the way, at
Speaker 1: this point, deep in like Iran, Contra, Shit, selling cocaine
Speaker 1: and in anyway. We were talking about all of this
Speaker 1: on an upcoming episode of bastards. But like, yeah, they're
Speaker 1: all monsters, joining con Congress and shifting the burden to proof.
Speaker 1: We're a number of states. Within three years after the
Speaker 1: Hinckley verdict, two thirds of the states placed the burden
Speaker 1: on the defense to prove insanity, while eight states adopted
Speaker 1: a separate verdict of guilty but mentally ill. In one state, Utah,
Speaker 1: abolished the defense altogether, always delivering. So the system works
Speaker 1: really well for John Hinckley Jr um ethically, I think
Speaker 1: the Justice Department of the United States this is maybe
Speaker 1: one of it. Probably in history you will not find
Speaker 1: many cases of a guy shooting an active world leader
Speaker 1: and being treated ethically by the justice system like he's
Speaker 1: handled very reasonably, I think, and never again, never and
Speaker 1: again will that happen for anybody, even if they don't
Speaker 1: shoot the president. So, Um, obviously I wish John Hinckley
Speaker 1: jr well. I I hope his musical career goes fine. Um,
Speaker 1: I fuck Ronald Reagan, Um hate him and UH yeah,
Speaker 1: it's probably made the world a lot worse that John
Speaker 1: Hinckley Jr tried to shoot Ronald Reagan, because it empowered
Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan. One of the lessons here, if we're talking
Speaker 1: about assassinations, is that, um, it's a real wild card
Speaker 1: trying to assassinate a president or any other politician. And
Speaker 1: as a general rule, people are kind of programmed to
Speaker 1: think that somebody's cool if they get shot and don't die,
Speaker 1: like it's one of the cooler things that like look
Speaker 1: it just objectively. It's what do you do if you
Speaker 1: want to show John Mcclain as hard as hell, you
Speaker 1: even get like hit in the arm or something and
Speaker 1: just like work through it, right, like what do people?
Speaker 1: People talk about like Teddy Roosevelt when he was shot
Speaker 1: and how bad it was that he gave it bad
Speaker 1: assid was that he gave a speech, or how cool
Speaker 1: it is that fucking Andrew Jackson, who they don't say
Speaker 1: any of these things. About is JFK that's right, is
Speaker 1: not cool. Not Cool, not over the roof of a church. Yeah,
Speaker 1: lame as hell, Um, but, like you know, this is
Speaker 1: the look. If, if you want John F Kennedy to
Speaker 1: stop being the president and you can successfully kill him,
Speaker 1: you will get what you want. He's no longer the president. Um,
Speaker 1: if you were to have a political motivation, and again,
Speaker 1: Hinkley doesn't Hinkley, it's not thinking about the top marginal
Speaker 1: tax rate when he does this. Um. But if you
Speaker 1: if that had been his goal, this is the opposite
Speaker 1: of that, right, because it just makes Reagan look cool
Speaker 1: and helps him, makes everybody feel like an asshole for
Speaker 1: fighting him for a while. So, like he gets a
Speaker 1: bunch of ship through and also a bunch of laws,
Speaker 1: get worse for mentally ill people and, on the whole, bad, bad,
Speaker 1: bad assassination. Zero, zero. Yeah, I have to say, based
Speaker 1: on based on the evidence we have here, shooting Ronald
Speaker 1: Reagan not a good idea. They didn't do it. Now
Speaker 1: let the whole team down and we should just plug
Speaker 1: his album. It's out on us. Best. We should plug
Speaker 1: his out because, again, he's not responsible for this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I think he's if he's happy singing songs,
Speaker 1: I'm happy for him. Yes, yes, I wish you the
Speaker 1: best of luck, John. You can buy his t shirts.
Speaker 1: He's got t shirts that he's trying to move, which
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't think it's bad to encourage
Speaker 1: his music career, like seriously, like we're all doing it
Speaker 1: with a little bit of a smile. But what's the
Speaker 1: harm if John Hickley Jr thinks that people like his music,
Speaker 1: that doesn't hurt anybody. And maybe if people can see that,
Speaker 1: like if you treat people with mental illnesses like people
Speaker 1: who are ill, not fucking terrible people, then they can
Speaker 1: get to a place where they can sing songs on Youtube.
Speaker 1: And yes, that's good. That's an example again of the
Speaker 1: only time it worked the way it's it's should, but
Speaker 1: it didn't work out pretty well in this case. Um,
Speaker 1: so I don't know. Yeah, take whatever lessons you want
Speaker 1: to out of this. Many, many possible things can be
Speaker 1: a lot enough, a lot of different lessons we can
Speaker 1: take out of this. Don't Hire Al Hague, but I
Speaker 1: feel like that's that's a generally good lesson. Yeah, there's
Speaker 1: a Phoenix Punch Bang called Jody Foster's army. I've just
Speaker 1: read as well, who makes songs about him. Great by
Speaker 1: their records too. Fine. Yes, no strong opinions on that
Speaker 1: either way. Anyone else got anything to say about John
Speaker 1: Hinckley JR or the assassination attempt on Ronnie Raw Hide Reagan? Also,
Speaker 1: we're talking about the I R a a lot this week.
Speaker 1: Probably not for nothing that Joe Biden's code name is
Speaker 1: Celtic M M and the Queen Dies now makes you
Speaker 1: think you're telling me it's a coincidence. I still suspects trust. Personally.
Speaker 1: I think that maybe Joe Biden shook hands with Liz
Speaker 1: trust and like like, transferred a nerve poison onto her
Speaker 1: hand and then she touched the queen. Definitely possible. Sipping
Speaker 1: again us on the plane back. No one that he's
Speaker 1: done his job in his Batta clava and spectably post one. Anyway.
Speaker 1: Hopefully nobody who has stuff going on listens to that
Speaker 1: and takes the wrong message out of it. Yeah, he
Speaker 1: kind to one another anyway. We're done. Prime Minister Abe
Speaker 1: was a champion of democracy and a firm believer that
Speaker 1: no economy, society or country can achieve its full potential
Speaker 1: if women are left behind. I am shocked and devastated
Speaker 1: by his assassination. A loss for Japan and our world.
Speaker 1: J K. This is assassination week. WHO's assassinating my ex
Speaker 1: x former prime minister of Japan? It's it's assassination week.
Speaker 1: It is, it is. I I would kind of, I
Speaker 1: would somewhat ving gloriously argue the capstone of assassination week.
Speaker 1: It is the episode about the assassination that started it
Speaker 1: at all Um, and by by that I mean we are,
Speaker 1: we are, we're here talking about the assassination of one
Speaker 1: Shinzo Abe Um. This is this is going to be
Speaker 1: a slightly different episode, both to the rusty assassination week
Speaker 1: episodes and to the other episode we did on the
Speaker 1: assassinations of Abbe Um, partly because, basically the day after,
Speaker 1: within within about two days of the our episode, original
Speaker 1: episode about the Abbe assassination dropping, Um, there was confirmation
Speaker 1: that the reason abbe was killed was because of his
Speaker 1: connection to an organization called the Unification Church, which is,
Speaker 1: I think, better loloquially known as the Mooneyes Um. People
Speaker 1: might have listened to the very, very long episode I
Speaker 1: did about it. But yeah, there is, there is an
Speaker 1: enormous amount going on there, and this is something that fortunately,
Speaker 1: we have experts for. And Yeah, so, so joining us
Speaker 1: to talk about this assassination and the moonies and sort of,
Speaker 1: I don't know, the sort of weirdness and the horror
Speaker 1: around everything that's been happening around this assassination is anti
Speaker 1: fascist researcher Elisam as you yeah, Alisa's a anti fascist
Speaker 1: researcher specializing in cults, WHO's working with deprogramming imperialism, which
Speaker 1: is a collective of ex moonies who've been documenting just
Speaker 1: sort of all of the ship the moonies have been
Speaker 1: getting up to and trying to get more awareness of
Speaker 1: really just incredible array of awful stuff that they've been doing. Yeah, so, alsa,
Speaker 1: welcome to the show. Hi, thanks for having me. I
Speaker 1: really apreciate it. Yeah, and thank you. Thank you so
Speaker 1: much for joining us for this. I don't know why
Speaker 1: I'm saying us, as if if there's someone other than
Speaker 1: of this episode and You, but you know, old old
Speaker 1: habits die hard, I guess. I guess I've inherited the
Speaker 1: royal we which is not great. Oh well, so someone
Speaker 1: will have to assassinate me soon. That's fine. Sometimes it happens.
Speaker 1: I hope it doesn't happen to you, though. That would
Speaker 1: not be the best assassination target, honestly. Yeah, so, okay,
Speaker 1: I guess the place I think we should start is
Speaker 1: talking about what we've found out about this assassin in
Speaker 1: the last sort of a few months since this happened,
Speaker 1: which is that when when the initial police reports came out,
Speaker 1: there was a bunch of very, very murky stuff about basically,
Speaker 1: the police were like this wasn't a political killing, it
Speaker 1: was about some organization, and I think me and you
Speaker 1: and every single other person was like even testentially where
Speaker 1: of Japanese politics. saw them say like an organization and
Speaker 1: was like, oh no, there's like a one in three
Speaker 1: chances of the Boodhi's. Yeah, that's yeah. I saw like
Speaker 1: when they said something about like organization or religious organization.
Speaker 1: I was like yeah, it was like that probably is. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and it turns out that okay. So the assassin is
Speaker 1: a man named Tetsuya Yamagami, who was a navy veteran. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: made a a series of unbelievably based and incredibly wild
Speaker 1: firearms with which she assassinated the form per minister of Japan.
Speaker 1: What we've learned since then is that the reason he
Speaker 1: did this was that his basically, like his family and
Speaker 1: his life were completely destroyed by his mom falling into
Speaker 1: this colts and by her I mean she, she, she,
Speaker 1: she gave this Holt set like something like seven hundred
Speaker 1: thousand dollars. Yeah, like roughly seven U S dollars. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like literal, like like multiple fortunes, like she, she, she
Speaker 1: gave them all of her money and then she sold
Speaker 1: the company that like she had been running to give
Speaker 1: them more money. And Yeah, what? What? What, basically, as
Speaker 1: best we can tell, has happened was that he was
Speaker 1: he was looking at a way to like get back
Speaker 1: at the boonies Um. And basically the problem was he okay,
Speaker 1: so if he didn't want to kill civilians, which I
Speaker 1: think is admirable, and he couldn't figure out a way
Speaker 1: to like get at any of the like individual church leaders,
Speaker 1: and so he's the thing he decided to do was
Speaker 1: go after sins Abe because, as we're gonna get to
Speaker 1: in a in a bit, Enzo Abbey lots of connections
Speaker 1: with the Unification Church, a thing that all of the
Speaker 1: people like writing glowing obituaries about him just like in
Speaker 1: edibly don't want to mention. Yeah, it's been left out
Speaker 1: of a lot of ship yeah, and okay, so I
Speaker 1: guess to back up a little bit, Um, can for
Speaker 1: for for people who sort of don't know what this is,
Speaker 1: or for people who like, may have heard of Aberty,
Speaker 1: to refresher, can you talk a bit about what? What? What?
Speaker 1: What the Unification Church actually is? And Yeah, we can.
Speaker 1: We can sort of go from there. Yeah, definitely. Okay.
Speaker 1: So the Unification Church, or the Moonys, uh, they are
Speaker 1: a quote unquote, new religious movement or pretty much a
Speaker 1: cult you know, they're very culty and they're a cult Um,
Speaker 1: and they were started by some young moon who was
Speaker 1: originally from what is now North Korea. Uh. And so basically,
Speaker 1: this guy, he claims he's the Messiah, has this originally
Speaker 1: it started out as like a sex cult Um, under
Speaker 1: a practice called, I think, Picarum, which is basically, uh,
Speaker 1: he was supposed to h quote unquote, clans a woman's
Speaker 1: like relationship to God by having sex with her. So
Speaker 1: he assaulted a number of people doing this stuff. Um,
Speaker 1: and the church over the years has sort of like
Speaker 1: developed into more of a multinational corporation. Uh, and political movement. Uh.
Speaker 1: And it has a lot of tools, I mean a
Speaker 1: lot of ties and connections to various governments around the world,
Speaker 1: including Japan. Um. And it's basically, at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, a tool of United States imperialism. Um, there's
Speaker 1: some pretty pretty direct ties to like the Korean CIA, yeah,
Speaker 1: as well as the U S C I. A. Um. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like this big umbrella of like groups, different NGOs,
Speaker 1: different like businesses, a bunch. It's just a whole conglomeration
Speaker 1: of things, right, Um, but very, extremely virulently anti Communist. Uh. And,
Speaker 1: you know, involved in some of some of the greatest
Speaker 1: hits of the last century, like Iran, Contra. Yeah, for us.
Speaker 1: And when? When? When? When? We say involved in a
Speaker 1: rand contract? Like, okay, there's lots of people who are like,
Speaker 1: sort of involved in a rand contract. The movies. Like there.
Speaker 1: There is a decent there you can do. You can
Speaker 1: make the argument that if the movie's had not been
Speaker 1: doing what they were doing in Nicaragua, around Contra, wouldn't
Speaker 1: have been able to happen because the civil war would
Speaker 1: have ended like they like. When? When? When I say like?
Speaker 1: When we say like, like they were involved in the
Speaker 1: rand contract. Like they are like on the ground giving
Speaker 1: people guns and money and keeping like literally literally keeping
Speaker 1: guerrilla organizations and like terrorist groups like in the war,
Speaker 1: who wouldn't have been able to otherwise. Yeah, and then,
Speaker 1: and then also, and that's that's the thing, like they
Speaker 1: did to around contrast, right, because they did. They did
Speaker 1: the second around contract with like with you know, when
Speaker 1: the CIA actually got money, but they were also doing
Speaker 1: the same thing like before that, when they in the
Speaker 1: sort of stop gap period with the CIA, wasn't able
Speaker 1: to fund the contrast. So, yeah, these guys are route
Speaker 1: for that money. And Yeah, so it's yeah, they're very,
Speaker 1: very heavily involved. Like basically anywhere there was an anti
Speaker 1: communists squad like in the world, you can find the
Speaker 1: bodies funding in although, okay, I wasn't, weirdly, the only one.
Speaker 1: I the only one I haven't directly been able to find.
Speaker 1: Is I haven't been able to directly find any evidence
Speaker 1: that they were like that. Like specifically they were helping Pinot,
Speaker 1: like helping PJ. Okay, they were involved in Operation Condor
Speaker 1: and they were like doing ship with that. I haven't
Speaker 1: found evidence they like directly had any conversations with Pinochet,
Speaker 1: but that's like he's like the the only person you
Speaker 1: can say that about. And they probably did at some point,
Speaker 1: like but, you know, like a frail straws. Yeah, like
Speaker 1: they probably did. Like, I mean again, like they were,
Speaker 1: they were there with a frail strawsner. They were they with, Um,
Speaker 1: what was that guy's name? UH, Claus Barbie, the cocaine
Speaker 1: K yeah, yeah, I can't, I can't. I can't remember that,
Speaker 1: the name of the guy. Yeah, there was. There was
Speaker 1: a guy, and believe you, who got installed for like
Speaker 1: a year, that he got couped right now. Um, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I I know who you're talking about, but I'm also
Speaker 1: forgetting his name at the moment. It's funny because he's
Speaker 1: he's one of these guys where it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: I had a professor, I took I took a Syrian
Speaker 1: history class in college, right and Um, there I think
Speaker 1: it's I really should, if I was saying that, I
Speaker 1: really should know the year. But there there's a year
Speaker 1: in like the fifties in Syria where there's like four
Speaker 1: cups in one year and there were like two guys
Speaker 1: who were, technically speaking, like had controller. serially. He was
Speaker 1: like I'm just not even telling you these guys names
Speaker 1: because they get overthrown him like two months and like
Speaker 1: that's that's that's this guy. Yeah, yeah, but, yeah, this
Speaker 1: is a very sort of very serious and deeply scary
Speaker 1: like death squad funding machine. Yeah, and that, you know,
Speaker 1: has continued to today pretty much. So, yeah, and okay,
Speaker 1: I think like yeah, so, yeah, there's sort of the
Speaker 1: desk quard side of it. Um, the other thing I
Speaker 1: wanted to ask you about is about like what it's
Speaker 1: like being in the church and what it's like sort
Speaker 1: of I don't know, because I think, I think a
Speaker 1: big part of of what's happening with this story is
Speaker 1: tattoo a Yamagami like basically watching his family get sucked
Speaker 1: in and not being able to do anything about it.
Speaker 1: And I was wondering if you could talk a bit
Speaker 1: about yeah, I mean sort of like what, what? What? What?
Speaker 1: What it's like being in the church and then what
Speaker 1: it's like just sort of watching it destroy people. Yeah, so, Um,
Speaker 1: I was born and raised in the church. I left
Speaker 1: when I was around seventeen. It was not it was
Speaker 1: not nice. Um, pretty much everybody I talked to who
Speaker 1: is also left feels the burden of this like perfect
Speaker 1: abuse that we had to endure. Um, it was a
Speaker 1: bleak time for me. Uh, you know, there's just so
Speaker 1: much pressure put on members to follow leadership, to do
Speaker 1: out outrageous amounts of fundraising. They have a bunch of
Speaker 1: these fundraising teams, right, and they'll they'll go out and
Speaker 1: they'll sell things and live in a van, occasionally stopping
Speaker 1: at like different church centers. Um Too like, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: sleep for the night or whatever. They don't eat well, UH,
Speaker 1: they don't get enough sleep, you know, like you're constantly
Speaker 1: around other people, basically like all all of the methods
Speaker 1: of cycleogical torture you can do on a person, right, Um,
Speaker 1: which was, you know, pretty standard throughout the whole movement. Um,
Speaker 1: I was lucky enough not to go on any of
Speaker 1: these fundraising teams because I left before Um, that could happen.
Speaker 1: But Um, I still, you know, definitely feel like the psychological,
Speaker 1: you know, fallout from that and it's something I'll be
Speaker 1: healing with, healing from for the rest of my life. Um. Yeah, so,
Speaker 1: like there's there's like no accountability for leadership. They can
Speaker 1: do whatever they want, but everybody else in the church
Speaker 1: you know, uh, has to follow what moon and the
Speaker 1: regional or national leadership says, or the the thirty six
Speaker 1: blessed couples who are like some of men's original followers. Uh.
Speaker 1: There's it's like extremely hierarchical. UH, there's a lot of
Speaker 1: racism within the group, a huge amount of sexism that
Speaker 1: is like, you know, directly tied into their Um, their
Speaker 1: belief system, because the fall of man, according to the Moonies,
Speaker 1: was eve having sex with Satan and then having sex
Speaker 1: with Um Adam and spreading that thin. Um. So just
Speaker 1: like very inherently misogynistic, extremely homophobic and transphobic movement just
Speaker 1: all around, like so much sexual repression, like you're not
Speaker 1: supposed to hold hands, kiss, do anything before marriage, right,
Speaker 1: and then it's only that person. Well, of course moon,
Speaker 1: you know, didn't didn't like this. Didn't apply to him
Speaker 1: at all. He could sleep with anybody's wife pretty much. Um. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: it was just altogether a very intense environment, just so
Speaker 1: much indoctrination going into the heads of the people who
Speaker 1: are part of it. Um. Yeah, just altogether shitty group. Um. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So for me, I I went away to school in
Speaker 1: another state when I was fourteen. Um, it got me like,
Speaker 1: you know, the physical distance, as well as like the
Speaker 1: space and time to actually think and reflect on what
Speaker 1: was going on. And then I started doing some research
Speaker 1: online because I was like, well, maybe what people are
Speaker 1: saying about it is true, maybe it is a cult Um.
Speaker 1: And I came across this, the tragedy of the six Mary's,
Speaker 1: which was, you know, Moon assaulting a bunch of women, uh,
Speaker 1: and that sort of like made me just, you know,
Speaker 1: it sort of brought it to a head because I
Speaker 1: had like, you know, seen for the longest time how
Speaker 1: leadership was treated versus how regular members had to live
Speaker 1: in like poverty, Um, but they got like big mansions
Speaker 1: and like nice things, Nice cars, expensive watches, but everybody
Speaker 1: else had to like give all their money to the church.
Speaker 1: And you know, was were like terrorized, Um. and Uh
Speaker 1: then eventually I was like I think I have to go.
Speaker 1: I like I had been through the process of like
Speaker 1: meeting the mystical or the the evil, other which, you know,
Speaker 1: like people outside of the church, or you know, they're
Speaker 1: fallen there, like, you know, basically they have original sin,
Speaker 1: so they're kind of evil, right. Um, and gotten to
Speaker 1: know more people, Um, queer people who were just like
Speaker 1: a hugely demonized group of people within the UC. Um,
Speaker 1: and here I am today. I'm Super Queer. Um, but
Speaker 1: like that, like Kelly. Yeah, but like getting to know
Speaker 1: people and actually seeing, you know, like, Oh my God,
Speaker 1: what they're saying. These people are not evil, they're normal,
Speaker 1: they're human, they are just different from straight people. I
Speaker 1: don't know. Uh. That to me also made like a
Speaker 1: huge difference. Um. And then when I was seventeen, I
Speaker 1: went to another school and I was like, I want
Speaker 1: to get laid. I've had a lost this. So I
Speaker 1: went out and did that and that felt like, you know,
Speaker 1: once I finally lost my virginity, it felt like sealing
Speaker 1: the deal. I'm like if I have to go to
Speaker 1: hell now, okay, and it was cool because God didn't
Speaker 1: like immediately smite me where I where I was in
Speaker 1: bed at that point, like I lived and I'm here
Speaker 1: to tell the tale. So so, yeah, that's how I left.
Speaker 1: That rules. This is much more gay of the story
Speaker 1: when I was expecting, which is all, which is always
Speaker 1: a good thing. Yeah, it reminds me a lot of
Speaker 1: like the stories of sort of like people leaving like
Speaker 1: the really right wing, like Evangelical, was like a lot
Speaker 1: of reminds me a quiverful but like, yeah, more intense,
Speaker 1: I think. Well, it's like I think like like the
Speaker 1: level of I don't know, I guess the level of separation. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: they seem to be at least sort of like integrated
Speaker 1: into like other communities and stuff, whereas the Moonies, I
Speaker 1: don't know, like there's definitely like people have friends outside
Speaker 1: of it, but like generally, like people kind of keep
Speaker 1: to the moonies because, you know, they're supposed to be
Speaker 1: like God's chosen people or whatever. So they and they
Speaker 1: like look down on everyone else because they're not moonies.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it is. It's also interesting to me that
Speaker 1: like literally literally the term is just the evil other,
Speaker 1: which is so I don't think that's a literal term,
Speaker 1: but like that's how I sort of phrase it or whatever.
Speaker 1: But yeah, or just like fallen people would be, or
Speaker 1: the fallen world, the outsiders, is what they would say.
Speaker 1: So just this very, you know, like very like stigmatizing
Speaker 1: language that they use for people. Lots of people are
Speaker 1: just called evil in the church. To they just call
Speaker 1: people evil like Willy Nilly. It's like Oh, you're satanic,
Speaker 1: like no, that's not it that's not that I don't
Speaker 1: know how to do a good tradition into this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're going to adds. Yeah, so I want to just
Speaker 1: also talk about specifically one of the things that the
Speaker 1: church does and one of the things like the sort
Speaker 1: of one of the specific things that to Yamagami, Yamagami
Speaker 1: seems to have been suffering from, and well, physically is mom,
Speaker 1: but his sort of full family, is the financial abuse.
Speaker 1: And Yeah, I wanted to ask you a bit about
Speaker 1: what that looks like. And also there's some stuff about
Speaker 1: the Japanese context that I think is slightly different than. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so the American of the Korean context. I want to
Speaker 1: ask you a bit about that. Yeah, definitely. So across
Speaker 1: the board, uh, comunification church members are expected to bring
Speaker 1: in a lot of money through fundraising, through tithing, uh,
Speaker 1: providing free labor or, you know, low paid labor through
Speaker 1: church businesses and stuff. Um. So the cases though, that
Speaker 1: in Japan, because of the rhetoric of the church, which is,
Speaker 1: you know, basically born out of, you know, the environment. Um,
Speaker 1: in Korea, uh so there's basically this thought in the
Speaker 1: church that they say, Um, that Korea is the atom nation. Uh,
Speaker 1: because that's where, uh, you know, the Messiah came back, uh,
Speaker 1: South Korea and Um, and that Japan is the eve
Speaker 1: nations supposed to submit to the atom nation. Um and
Speaker 1: also sort of pay indemnity, which is a big word
Speaker 1: in the church, and uh, for the atrocity is committed
Speaker 1: during the Japanese occupation of Korea. Um. And so this
Speaker 1: means that Japanese members have to pay significantly more for
Speaker 1: pretty much everything. Um. So there's it's like just uh
Speaker 1: you know, like instead of like a type of reparations
Speaker 1: where it's like, you know, we'll give you money, it's
Speaker 1: like they make them suffer for uh that fact. and
Speaker 1: Uh so, like you know, fundraising goals are very high. Um,
Speaker 1: let me see, I think I had a figure here somewhere. Um. Uh. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so Japanese membership they bring in roughly of the church's income.
Speaker 1: Uh so a large amount for, you know, like proportionally.
Speaker 1: Not You know, there are a lot of members in Japan. However,
Speaker 1: throughout the world, that is like proportionately. You know, where
Speaker 1: most of it comes from. Um. And then, as of
Speaker 1: several years ago, uh, the Japanese church fundraising goal was
Speaker 1: thirty billion yen, or around two million for that year,
Speaker 1: I believe. So, just, you know. And so they go
Speaker 1: out selling uh, ancestor liberation is one thing. Uh, you're
Speaker 1: supposed to pay exorbitant fees for your ancestors to go
Speaker 1: to heaven. Um. There was a book called the Chanson
Speaker 1: young and that book was extremely expensive and, of course,
Speaker 1: much more expensive for members in Japan. Um, I think
Speaker 1: I read a figure where I think, I don't remember
Speaker 1: what year it was and it was not very recent.
Speaker 1: I think it might have been or something, or two
Speaker 1: thousand two or something. I'm not sure, but it costs like, roughly,
Speaker 1: like two thousand American dollars to go to the marriage ceremony,
Speaker 1: the one of the mass weddings that the moonies do,
Speaker 1: where everybody has arranged marriage, arranged married, Um. And so yeah,
Speaker 1: just like these huge amounts of money, uh, directly flowing
Speaker 1: from the pockets of the membership and anyone they happened to,
Speaker 1: you know, have give them money, uh into the coffers
Speaker 1: of the Church and, you know, directly on up to
Speaker 1: like the Moon family, who are billionaires. Um. Another thing
Speaker 1: I would say here is that they often uh so
Speaker 1: for people who that they're trying to fundraise from uh,
Speaker 1: they often will target like elderly widows and people who are,
Speaker 1: you know, in sort of precarious places and come to
Speaker 1: them and say, your family member who has passed away
Speaker 1: wants you to give this donation to the church. Uh.
Speaker 1: They also like at one point made up like a
Speaker 1: fake Buddhist sect in order to like specifically target people.
Speaker 1: So it goes deep. There's a there's a lot to that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like one of the things I remember reading those like that.
Speaker 1: Yet they had like this whole network of like fake
Speaker 1: mediums you would like like specifically to target people. They add.
Speaker 1: So we target the widows, which is like I don't know.
Speaker 1: So so much of the stuff that they do is
Speaker 1: just so incredibly leak like, I think. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: the thing that always that got me was the sort
Speaker 1: of like like the the way in which they're sort
Speaker 1: of weaponizing like like Japan's sort of war crimes in
Speaker 1: in South Korea and North Korea as well. And it's
Speaker 1: like it's like a on the one hand, like yeah,
Speaker 1: like a all this body is just going to like
Speaker 1: a bunch of like too rich fascists and then be like,
Speaker 1: and I think this is something else we can sort
Speaker 1: of get into is, like, okay, so the church's main
Speaker 1: political allies in Japan are the people who did all
Speaker 1: that ship Yep, like, no, it's just a constant deflection,
Speaker 1: pretty much. Yeah, and I mean it's interesting too, because,
Speaker 1: like you get, you get this, like some of the
Speaker 1: newspapers they fund will like openly say that, like, Japan
Speaker 1: should rearm again and like Japan should like start retaking
Speaker 1: Korea and then, like you have did, the other art
Speaker 1: with their business being like hey, pay US money for
Speaker 1: all the people you guys killed, and it's less. I
Speaker 1: don't know, it's yeah, it's pretty it's the worst, honestly. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and I guess, I guess. Yeah, I think. I think
Speaker 1: this is as good a place as I need to
Speaker 1: go into. Like, okay, so the moodies like could not
Speaker 1: do the things that they do in Japan without an
Speaker 1: incredibly large degree of institutional support. Um, part of this
Speaker 1: sort is with the Yakuza because, like you can't run,
Speaker 1: like you can't do organized crime stuff like like running
Speaker 1: an entire network of people to defraud widows, like in Japan,
Speaker 1: without the acquisite like you having some kind of deal
Speaker 1: with them. YEA, and yeah, and and and that. That
Speaker 1: also bizarrely ties in with sort of how how the
Speaker 1: innification Church got integrated with the sort of mainstream? Wow, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm just gonna call them mainstream, like fuck it. People, people, people,
Speaker 1: people will quibble about the different factions of the LDP.
Speaker 1: I frame we don't care for reasons that will get
Speaker 1: to but yeah, how. How? How they got, like and yeah,
Speaker 1: which I guess we're talking about, like the origins of
Speaker 1: how they got ingrained with Japan's like perpetual ruling party,
Speaker 1: live Democratic Party. Yeah, Um, sorry, were you? Were you? Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, sorry,
Speaker 1: I wasn't sure that was a question. It's okay. Um. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: it goes all the way back to uh, like so
Speaker 1: it goes. It goes back pretty far. So Novasuka Kishi
Speaker 1: obvious maternal grandfather. So he initially became sort of embroiled
Speaker 1: with the UC kind of stuff, unification church stuff, in
Speaker 1: the early days of when the movement Um was in Japan. Uh,
Speaker 1: he collaborated on stuff like the foundation for victory over communism.
Speaker 1: Spoke at their the founding of the organization at a
Speaker 1: UC church which was, I think, uh, next to fish's
Speaker 1: a state or something like that. Yeah, and I think,
Speaker 1: I think, I think, I think he sold them their
Speaker 1: first building in Japan. Yeah, I think, if I remembering
Speaker 1: something that I read at one point. Right, yeah, so, Um, so, yeah.
Speaker 1: And then, uh, in sixty two, the UC was able
Speaker 1: to convert fifty leaders of the alternationalist Nietzchech in Buddhist
Speaker 1: Uh sect, called sect called, Oh Gosh, I don't know
Speaker 1: how to pronounce this, Rio Show Cost Kai. Uh, and
Speaker 1: they had a lot of strong use of Yakaza connections. Um.
Speaker 1: And then Sami Kobuki was the first, you see, president
Speaker 1: in Japan. Uh, he was the Yakuza Lieutenant and second
Speaker 1: in command of that group that I had just mentioned.
Speaker 1: And and the other thing we should mention about this
Speaker 1: about the sort of how the occusite ties. Yeah, is that? So? Okay? So,
Speaker 1: Obsa Kishi is the guy who founds liberal democratic, the
Speaker 1: Liberal Democratic Party, right like He. The Liberal Democratic Party
Speaker 1: is his creation. It is like what that party is
Speaker 1: is all of Japan's conservatives basically like basically seating to
Speaker 1: his authority and being like, okay, fine, we're gonna follow
Speaker 1: your lead. Um, and his his party is like his
Speaker 1: base and his funding is basically a combination of what
Speaker 1: he he like. Kishi himself is a like artual words
Speaker 1: of war criminal. Um, his his base is basically in
Speaker 1: the old Japanese fascists. He is funded by, like, well,
Speaker 1: partially funded, like funded directly by the CIA. Um, he's
Speaker 1: also funded by but the the CIA in particular here
Speaker 1: is working through the Yakuza, because one of what that's
Speaker 1: that's one of the sort of the will like will
Speaker 1: it be in this sort of like we will. Will
Speaker 1: it be sent up? Not Cia, but yeah, that basically
Speaker 1: American intelligence in the American army starts working to the
Speaker 1: Akus as like an anti communist Um Force, and he
Speaker 1: he gets bankrolled by this two guys named Kodama and Um, right,
Speaker 1: you reached. Yeah, Sasakawa, who are like Kodamas is like
Speaker 1: like the like milit basically like the guy who is
Speaker 1: in charge of the Yakaza. He's also a fascist. Um
Speaker 1: Kawa is this self like literally called himself the world's
Speaker 1: rishest fascist. And both of these guys are like huge
Speaker 1: bank rollers of of Kishi. They are also and you know,
Speaker 1: and when, when? When Kishi is like bringing in the
Speaker 1: church like this? This is how this is, this is
Speaker 1: how all these people have got have Yakaza connections because, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's this. The whole sort of Japanese right wing
Speaker 1: like political machine is like one like happy family that
Speaker 1: is doing doing the worst stuff altogether, at the same
Speaker 1: time funded by the CIA. Yep, and like, and also,
Speaker 1: I need to say this, I said this is my episodebook,
Speaker 1: like like the level of CIA involvement here. Like there
Speaker 1: there are individual will CIA agents assigned to individual Liberal
Speaker 1: Democratic Party candidates in the fifties to make sure they
Speaker 1: won their elections. I did not know that, but that
Speaker 1: is it's not wild so specific. Wow, yes, yeah, concerning things,
Speaker 1: concerning things, Oh God, Um. But yeah, so, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: to this day a lot of LDP candidates and politicians
Speaker 1: still have ties to do you see, get donations from it. UH,
Speaker 1: used like membership as like free labor. uh, even like
Speaker 1: having secretaries from who are members of the UC and uh, like,
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes they would you know see like some
Speaker 1: sort of like classified or you know, information and stuff
Speaker 1: like that. So there's, yeah, there's like apart from like that,
Speaker 1: like just so interconnected. Yeah, do you do you remember
Speaker 1: the story about the LDPs like number two guy, like
Speaker 1: getting getting moon to be able to visit Japan. Ah, sorry,
Speaker 1: I don't Oh God. Okay, so that my memory of
Speaker 1: this story was okay. So, like, Japan has a series
Speaker 1: of really weird laws about like, okay, Japan is a
Speaker 1: series of very weird laws about many, many things. One
Speaker 1: of them has to do with it. It's something like
Speaker 1: if you've been convicted of a felony in another country,
Speaker 1: you can't enter Japan. And I don't know if it's
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's a felony. I don't I
Speaker 1: don't know what the I forget. I'm forgetting what the
Speaker 1: legal bar is for what you have to be like
Speaker 1: convicted of in or to not be able to enter
Speaker 1: the country. But I, like moon is a I like
Speaker 1: he like he was like convicted by the US governments
Speaker 1: of like perjury and a bunch of other ships because
Speaker 1: of the crimes that he did, and so he, like
Speaker 1: technically legally could not enter Japan. And then, like the
Speaker 1: the the vice president of Um an office, presently got
Speaker 1: him for his title. But maybe basically, like what like?
Speaker 1: Basically like the like the like the second most powerful
Speaker 1: man in Japanese politics and the nineties, like very specifically
Speaker 1: did a whole bunch of Visa Bullshit so that specifically
Speaker 1: boon could go to Japan legally. Not Surprising, not surprising,
Speaker 1: but wow. Yeah, it's like, Um, the lengths people will
Speaker 1: go to to collaborate with other fascists. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: that's that's I don't know, that's to me. What makes
Speaker 1: the Sassination really interesting is that. Like, okay, so, if
Speaker 1: you ask like even like in Japan, if you had
Speaker 1: asked the average person what the connection between like Shinzowabe
Speaker 1: and Edification Church was, like, most people have no idea.
Speaker 1: Like before this assassination, those people had like no idea
Speaker 1: what that was. Yeah, yeah, after the assassination this the
Speaker 1: whole landscape has changed. Um, yeah, I mean it's it's
Speaker 1: been really interesting to watch like this. This really seems
Speaker 1: like an incredibly sort of politically effective assassination because, yeah, okay, so,
Speaker 1: you know, you you you had, there was, there was,
Speaker 1: you know, you had the very the initial right wing backlash,
Speaker 1: but the righting backlash kind of it got kind of
Speaker 1: muted when it when it became clear that it like
Speaker 1: wasn't a left wing radical, which I think would have
Speaker 1: actually been an enormous disaster. Yeah, but then the guy
Speaker 1: was Yamagami, was pretty right wing himself. Yeah, it's like
Speaker 1: he's a right wing guy and but also like his
Speaker 1: story is really sympathetic. Yeah, I mean I feel for
Speaker 1: the guy. Like he had so much trauba in his life, honestly,
Speaker 1: and like it's obvious like, and I think you know
Speaker 1: a lot of uh former members, you know, sort of
Speaker 1: understand how that feels. UH, most of us have an
Speaker 1: assassinated a prime minister, but so far, so far. But yeah, like,
Speaker 1: I mean we understand that pain of where he is
Speaker 1: coming from and like, you know why, upon learning that
Speaker 1: Abe had these ties, he's sort of like, I felt
Speaker 1: like compelled to do something. Yeah, and I think the
Speaker 1: I mean there's also this element at work here that's
Speaker 1: kind of weird, which is like, okay, it's very, very
Speaker 1: hard normally to get like right wing Japanese people to
Speaker 1: turn on their own party. Uh, the one way that
Speaker 1: you can do it is by going hey, look at
Speaker 1: these Koreans. So there's like weird dynamics going on here.
Speaker 1: Like there were some, there were some like even further
Speaker 1: right parties who were like, you know, using this thing
Speaker 1: as a campaign thing of like Ah, this party is
Speaker 1: like a fake right wing party, like they're all being
Speaker 1: run by like Koreans, and it's like, okay, that's like not,
Speaker 1: like the thing that is bad about the moonies is
Speaker 1: not that they're Korean, it's that it's all of the
Speaker 1: other ship they do. Yeah, and I think that's complicated,
Speaker 1: but also, yeah, like the political impact this has had
Speaker 1: has been like enormous. Yeah, yeah, do you want to
Speaker 1: talk about that a bit? Yeah, so, Um, so, okay.
Speaker 1: Obviously it has shined a lot of light on sort
Speaker 1: of the connections that a lot of members of the
Speaker 1: government there have from the L D P, Um, as
Speaker 1: well as other parties have with do you see getting donations, etcetera. Um,
Speaker 1: people are pissed about it, you know, as they should be. Um.
Speaker 1: So I guess that, uh, Prime Minister Kashida has said
Speaker 1: that they want to cut ties with the Unification Church
Speaker 1: at this point. Uh, and it sort of remains to
Speaker 1: be seen whether that actually happens or not, because it
Speaker 1: can usually just be like lip service kind of ship. Um,
Speaker 1: but the politicians are uh, and I'm not sure if
Speaker 1: this is specifically for the LD P or sort of
Speaker 1: across the board. Um, there's like a thing where they're
Speaker 1: supposed to self report any ties or donations to the
Speaker 1: U S, which is just, you know, like I don't know,
Speaker 1: like I don't think everybody's going to come forward with
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. If you're supposed to do it yourself,
Speaker 1: that's like not how that should work. But Um, so,
Speaker 1: I mean, like it remains to be seen, you know,
Speaker 1: if those ties are actually gonna be cut. Um. So also,
Speaker 1: like there has been sort of like, uh a, a
Speaker 1: a lot of support from uh, like lawyer groups, like
Speaker 1: the National Network of lawyers against spiritual sales Um, who has,
Speaker 1: you know, worked with, you know, cult members and like
Speaker 1: specifically a lot of Unification Church members or former members
Speaker 1: or whatever who have, you know, lost money through spiritual
Speaker 1: sales Um. And they've also just recently called for the
Speaker 1: dissolution of the UC in Japan, which is pretty cool
Speaker 1: and I hope that happens. How realistic it is, given
Speaker 1: all of the strong ties to the government, but that
Speaker 1: would be cool. Um. And then also I saw a
Speaker 1: thing a couple of days ago that Japanese consulates and
Speaker 1: embassies have a program that is offering advice or assistance, uh,
Speaker 1: to UC members who are Japanese nationals and their children, Um,
Speaker 1: and that ends on September thirty, I think. So, if
Speaker 1: anybody needs that, getting fast. Um. But I think that
Speaker 1: also applies in America. So if, like you're a Japanese
Speaker 1: national and like a victim of the U S or
Speaker 1: if your parents are, uh, they those that open and
Speaker 1: I don't know exactly what the levels of support resources
Speaker 1: they're offering are, uh, but it's worth looking into for sure. Um.
Speaker 1: But yeah, like, so there's been like sort of this
Speaker 1: outpouring of support from various groups and there's, you know,
Speaker 1: like it's really shining a light on the issue of
Speaker 1: like especially what it's like to be a second generation
Speaker 1: member of occult and the trauma that people like us
Speaker 1: have gone through. Um, you know, there are definitely a
Speaker 1: lot of calls for like support and mental health care,
Speaker 1: as well as like, you know, ways to sort of
Speaker 1: get people out of situations like that in the first place. Um. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I I. I. I hope this translates
Speaker 1: into actual resources. And Yeah, just sort of like the
Speaker 1: LDPs through ratings tanking, which like is good, and like
Speaker 1: it is very funny that Kishia has had to act
Speaker 1: like half his cabinet. Yeah, I don't know. I think
Speaker 1: it it remains, although he remains in power and he's
Speaker 1: see too interesting. So it's like, you know, clearly there's
Speaker 1: not a lot, like even if people are like having
Speaker 1: a little bit of like the smallest level of transparency
Speaker 1: about this stuff, like I don't necessarily know how far
Speaker 1: it will actually go into like, you know, making amends
Speaker 1: or like protecting people from further abuse or, you know,
Speaker 1: getting people their money back. I don't know, I think
Speaker 1: there's a there's something. I think that's that's really sort of,
Speaker 1: I don't know, like really grim about the way that
Speaker 1: this worked out, which the Japanese police knew what was
Speaker 1: going on and why this sessination had happened like immediately,
Speaker 1: like they found his hard drive and he'd written out
Speaker 1: the whole thing about why he did it. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: then they intentionally held the information and basically made were
Speaker 1: able to maintain a press in Bargo until after the
Speaker 1: election happened. Yeah, you know, now everyone fucking hates the LDB,
Speaker 1: like the perminision's approve of ratings, like theories present, like
Speaker 1: it's really bad. I mean it went from like fifty
Speaker 1: went from like fifty two to like thirties six and
Speaker 1: like a couple of weeks. But because the people who
Speaker 1: are people who connected the church are the people in charge,
Speaker 1: they were able to like suppress this information long enough
Speaker 1: to like shape how the election was going to go
Speaker 1: make sure that it was sort of like the right
Speaker 1: wing shock from Oh my God, that's assassinated prime minister
Speaker 1: and not the weight. The assassinated prime minister for a
Speaker 1: reason that's like incredibly justified and relatable to like this
Speaker 1: is as relatable with a motive of assassination as like
Speaker 1: I've ever seen. Yeah, I mean, like, as far as
Speaker 1: reasons for assassinating people go, this is a pretty like
Speaker 1: solid reason, like there's there's stuff there. Yeah, and like
Speaker 1: and I think it's just like like it's it's interesting.
Speaker 1: That's like it's it's rare assassination where the assassin is
Speaker 1: a very empathetic figure to like I think a lot
Speaker 1: of the time when you get people doing stuff like this,
Speaker 1: like it's there. There's sort of like one to one
Speaker 1: correlation with like okay, like how how? How how do
Speaker 1: you feel about sort of like like how how do
Speaker 1: you feel about assassination in general? is going to like
Speaker 1: determine your dicay, like determined your sort of response to
Speaker 1: the actual action, whereas I think here it's different, because
Speaker 1: you know like that yeah, this, this, this is someone who, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I keep saying that he's sort of like
Speaker 1: imminutely relatable, but it's like, yeah, this is, this is
Speaker 1: someone who, I don't know, has been through just an
Speaker 1: incredible amount of trauma in a way that's like very
Speaker 1: easily sort of digestible to like regular people. Yeah, it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: very obvious trauma and like, you know, yeah, I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's and I really hope that that that that really
Speaker 1: does actually translated to resources for mental health resources, because
Speaker 1: I do too. I feel like as well as mental
Speaker 1: health resources, I help there are like, you know, financial
Speaker 1: resources and you know, like all sorts of other resources
Speaker 1: as well, because, like dealing with the fallout of, you know,
Speaker 1: having been in a like a cult is incredibly difficult
Speaker 1: and requires a lot of space and time, and a
Speaker 1: lot of people are, you know, left with like PTSD
Speaker 1: after that and it'll last for your whole life and
Speaker 1: that makes you know, for a lot of people, that
Speaker 1: makes you know, having getting money and doing job things
Speaker 1: extremely hard, especially, you know, if you're like getting like
Speaker 1: emotionally like thrown back into that all of the time. Um,
Speaker 1: so I hope there are like more, you know, like
Speaker 1: material resources that are also available in addition to uh,
Speaker 1: sort of like mental health care and therapy things. Is.
Speaker 1: That's something that I feel like it's all too often
Speaker 1: just not there for people who have been through abuse. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think also there's there's this way in which
Speaker 1: like like a lot of this like insofar as there's
Speaker 1: any kind of like support network like in the US,
Speaker 1: and this is also true of Japan, two maybe as
Speaker 1: I don't know, the Japanese offer stay. It's not great.
Speaker 1: But yeah, like there's an extent to which like the
Speaker 1: sort of like last safety net you have is your family,
Speaker 1: and you know, like this is this is a kind
Speaker 1: of thing that can very easily cut you off from
Speaker 1: your family and that that has, you know, I mean
Speaker 1: that that has emotional consequences, but like, yeah, that that
Speaker 1: has enormous financial consequences. That really don't like. I don't
Speaker 1: know I when when, when I was originally doing research
Speaker 1: on this, like I I read a lot of sort
Speaker 1: of like people arguing about like deprogramming stuff, and it
Speaker 1: like they just didn't talk about like that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: Often it was always just sort of like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: really weird, and it's sort of like grotesque and detached
Speaker 1: way to think about it instead of like yeah, so, yeah,
Speaker 1: it depends on what type of care it is too, because, honestly,
Speaker 1: deprogramming is another cult. It is another cult. It's like
Speaker 1: an anticult cult and, Um, it just, you know, it
Speaker 1: re traumatizes those who are already traumatized and honestly, like
Speaker 1: people who have been deprogrammed sometimes leave, but a lot
Speaker 1: of the time it just increases their fervor for being
Speaker 1: part of whatever movement they're part of already. Um, because
Speaker 1: they're like Oh, if this is, you know, like what
Speaker 1: everybody is going to do to be if I leave,
Speaker 1: like of course, I gotta stick with this because, you know,
Speaker 1: then like it's like every what they've been saying the
Speaker 1: whole time about, you know, being persecuted and like hurt
Speaker 1: and stuff then becomes true. Right. Yeah, I guess that's
Speaker 1: the thing I would say about. Like that's my disclaimer
Speaker 1: about de programming. Uh, and though the collective we are
Speaker 1: a part of is called deprogramming imperialism. That is because
Speaker 1: the only thing that needs to be deprogrammed really is
Speaker 1: imperialism and not people, because that's not how that works.
Speaker 1: The radicalization requires a lot of trust, a lot of time,
Speaker 1: a lot of space, a lot of reflection. It's not
Speaker 1: something that, you know, you can just like go and
Speaker 1: like lock somebody in a basement for two weeks and
Speaker 1: then like try to make them leave whatever movement there
Speaker 1: part like that's that's just abuse. Yeah, I think, like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I think it's it's as an industry.
Speaker 1: It's not as sort of like powerful as it used
Speaker 1: to be, but I think, like, I don't know it there's, there's,
Speaker 1: there's there's a sense in which it's sort of like,
Speaker 1: you know, it almost it almost has like civil war
Speaker 1: logic where it's like both, both, both sides need the
Speaker 1: other side as sort of they're like reason to exist and,
Speaker 1: you know, so like and both, you know on both both,
Speaker 1: both sides are traumatizing people. On both sides need like
Speaker 1: like that. They're there. There's they're serfically fighting over the
Speaker 1: same group of people and each of them can sort
Speaker 1: of like offer the other side as like Oh, Hey,
Speaker 1: this is why we need to exist thing. But then
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, and like like as with, like
Speaker 1: most civil wars, it's like the actual people caught in
Speaker 1: it don't it's like no, you don't actually need, you
Speaker 1: don't want either side of the civil war. You want out. Yeah, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: it's definitely it's definitely one of those like Oh, you're
Speaker 1: stuck between a rock and a hard place kind of things.
Speaker 1: It's like both options suck. Like yeah, like the two
Speaker 1: party systems. Yeah, God, Stalin, Stalin said two good things
Speaker 1: and his entire two things that were like funny in
Speaker 1: his entire life. One of them was the pope, how
Speaker 1: many division does he have? And the second one was
Speaker 1: they're both worse. And there I mean immediately he was
Speaker 1: wrong about they're both worse, but like yeah, that's a
Speaker 1: that's a that's a real thing. That is the basis
Speaker 1: of all modern politics. Honestly, that is honestly we hate
Speaker 1: to see. I hate to see it. Yeah, yeah, on
Speaker 1: the on the other hand, though, I don't know, like
Speaker 1: I I am kind of hopeful about this, like I
Speaker 1: am too. It genuinely seems to have like changed, like,
Speaker 1: at the very least, it's changed the way that the
Speaker 1: Japanese public, like season, understands this whole thing and like
Speaker 1: this is the first time, I think, ever betther, I
Speaker 1: mean like, you know, like the Communist Party and stuff.
Speaker 1: I've been trying for like years to get people to
Speaker 1: care about this. Just no one has really cared since, like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, like they basically since the Japanese left
Speaker 1: collapse in like the seventies. Like nobody's really cared about
Speaker 1: this and I don't know, it really seems like something
Speaker 1: like it really seems like this assassination has actually changed
Speaker 1: something about just sort of like the like just the
Speaker 1: way that the Japanese politics is being structured right now.
Speaker 1: And I don't know, I'm modern really hopeful. I would
Speaker 1: say I'm too I mean, like the more light that
Speaker 1: is shed on this, I think, the better. And like,
Speaker 1: unfortunately weird things happened, but I feel like if there's
Speaker 1: any chance for some sort of Um, some sort of
Speaker 1: you know across the board or even in certain areas
Speaker 1: just specifically, any sort of like justice, that the amount
Speaker 1: of public attention on this now is, you know, potentially
Speaker 1: something that could help bring something like that about. So
Speaker 1: I don't it's been it's been like sort of a
Speaker 1: weird ride for for us x members, Um, with all
Speaker 1: of that just sort of like re traumatizing to everything happened. Um,
Speaker 1: but at the end of the day, I think a
Speaker 1: lot of us are hopeful that things can change now
Speaker 1: that people know about it, because you know before that
Speaker 1: it wasn't something that was ever really talked about. Groups
Speaker 1: like this thrive on this sort of weird combination of
Speaker 1: like operating in the shadows and also when they show up,
Speaker 1: it's through their own PR stuff. Yeah, and you know,
Speaker 1: sometimes the best way to break that, apparently, is you
Speaker 1: shoot someone who was you shoot a guy who they
Speaker 1: who was working for them. And Yeah, I don't know,
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I feel like, Yeahmagami sort of managed
Speaker 1: to at least, you know, he he did what he
Speaker 1: he did a thing and it has had sort of,
Speaker 1: I probably, some of the impact that he imagined it would.
Speaker 1: So I don't know, yeah, like honestly, like Im from
Speaker 1: from what I've read of his stuff, like I I
Speaker 1: think that's what better than he expected it, like it
Speaker 1: could it possibly have gone? Like? He seemed like really
Speaker 1: really sort of just like had abandoned all hope. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I don't know, I mean, like I guess the
Speaker 1: the other thing that I really hope out of this
Speaker 1: comes out of this is that like you don't have
Speaker 1: to have people like destroying their lives a second time
Speaker 1: in sort of like just out of the incredible desperation
Speaker 1: of what they've been through, right. Yeah, preventing any of
Speaker 1: that would be optimal. Yeah, yeah, because the you know,
Speaker 1: the more that, the longer the Unification Church operates, the
Speaker 1: more people will be abused and the more violence will
Speaker 1: come out of it. Like maybe this is the most
Speaker 1: high profile like a recent bit of violence that's come
Speaker 1: out of the movement, but it's not unprecedented in any way. So,
Speaker 1: you know, it's like that's what happens when people are abused. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's I think it's also worth just sort of
Speaker 1: like reminding people that one of the sort of so
Speaker 1: the church has sort of splintered into various factions. Yeah,
Speaker 1: a lot of the people, well, okay, a trump trump
Speaker 1: gave a speech at like the at an event of
Speaker 1: the mainline church. A bunch of like so one of
Speaker 1: the other guys, like one of the other splinter factions,
Speaker 1: had a bunch of people at January six rot of
Speaker 1: iron ministries or sanctuary church, and those are those are
Speaker 1: the guys who had the the A R fifteen gun
Speaker 1: blessing ceremony a few years ago that made the rounds,
Speaker 1: where they wore bullet crowns and their robes and they
Speaker 1: had the guns. And they've also got land in in
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania and Tennessee and also in Waco, Texas, where they're
Speaker 1: basically preparing people for war with what Sean Moon has
Speaker 1: this ribed as something akin to the globalist deep state
Speaker 1: and Marxists. Uh, I don't know if those are his
Speaker 1: exact words, but it was something like that. So they're,
Speaker 1: you know, like they're they have an act of militia.
Speaker 1: They're preparing for war. That is what the Rod of
Speaker 1: iron is for them. That is the gun. Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: and and these are these are the if remember my
Speaker 1: my stuff on this, right, this is the fashion that
Speaker 1: owns car arms, right, yes, they do. Yeah, yeah, so
Speaker 1: they have a gun manufacturer. Now, okay, like, if Robert
Speaker 1: We're here, Robert will probably start equippling with me about
Speaker 1: how good, like the equivalent with me about the actual
Speaker 1: quality of the weapons they produced. But like, okay, they
Speaker 1: have them, they have they they have a weapons manufacturing peace,
Speaker 1: which is terrifying. Yeah, and they make the trump gun because,
Speaker 1: of course they're all super pro trump, very like patriot.
Speaker 1: A lot of q and on overlap there. And Actually
Speaker 1: Rod of Iron Ministries UH in in Japan has been
Speaker 1: helping organize q and on events. Um. And Yeah, so
Speaker 1: like there was also and so basically the relationship between
Speaker 1: rode iron and the mainline, you see, is supertense. Sean
Speaker 1: Moon and a couple of his other brothers basically want
Speaker 1: their mother dead. And who is? She's the you know,
Speaker 1: the head of the mainline church right now. Um, and
Speaker 1: not just dead but like specifically beheaded. Um. So there
Speaker 1: was an event recently over the summer, I think it
Speaker 1: was like the end of June, where Uh Sean was, Gosh,
Speaker 1: I forget, I forget where he was in Japan. Um,
Speaker 1: but basically he was sort of like railing at the
Speaker 1: audience for supporting his mother, Hawk to Han uh, and
Speaker 1: then when people spoke up in defense of her, they
Speaker 1: were literally like physically thrown out of the room. Um,
Speaker 1: it was super intense. Yeah, there's yea, yeah, it's it's
Speaker 1: a really fucking intense moment. Um. And he's like they're
Speaker 1: saying she had like sex with a demon or something
Speaker 1: like that and has fallen and all of this. You know, God,
Speaker 1: like I don't know. Sometimes. I watched a bit of
Speaker 1: the guy's speeches just because I'm like, I want to
Speaker 1: know what the funk they're up to. Um. And first
Speaker 1: of all it seems like he might do a lot
Speaker 1: of cocaine, which would not be on the precedent had
Speaker 1: given the moonies and all of their drug smuggling and ship. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean we we have like, what was his name? I,
Speaker 1: Oh God, I'm blaming on the name of what? What? What?
Speaker 1: What of his other sons? was like it was like
Speaker 1: literally spending like a shell corporations, like net income amount
Speaker 1: like per month on cocaine. At one point, like was
Speaker 1: that he o Jen possibly? I think I think it was. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think. Yeah. And he's also enormous abusive piece of ship. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it sucks. Yeah, people are all well, okay, that's not
Speaker 1: the people who are still actively involved in the church
Speaker 1: and who didn't break themselves out and flee like the
Speaker 1: first opportunity they got are like enormous pieces of ship. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean because like even at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: if they're not specifically doing anything that like directly harm somebody,
Speaker 1: they're giving money to these institutions that do into people
Speaker 1: who do and giving them support and, you know, reinforcing
Speaker 1: all of that ship. And then, you know, I mean
Speaker 1: most of them are just shitty in general too. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I also like specifically awesome about like, yeah, there there
Speaker 1: were a couple of people who like got forciably married
Speaker 1: into the family. Yeah, like left and I don't I
Speaker 1: do not want people to get to get the impression
Speaker 1: that I think they're bad, because they're not. Like they got, yeah,
Speaker 1: really horrible stuff happened to them. They're able to escape me.
Speaker 1: That's good, but also, Jesus Christ, like yeah, uh, and
Speaker 1: that's the thing that it's like sometimes hard to talk
Speaker 1: to like, you know, childhood friends or my family who's
Speaker 1: still involved, Um, because I feel like it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: if you're supporting this group, you're implicitly supporting fascism and
Speaker 1: murder and death squads and rape and all of these
Speaker 1: awful things. Um, and you know, a lot of members
Speaker 1: don't know that those bits of history about the church. Um,
Speaker 1: but if anyone who is listening is in the U C,
Speaker 1: I would definitely say to look those things up, because
Speaker 1: they are all over the place. Yeah, okay, so this
Speaker 1: was specifically. Yeah, I read inside the League by Scott
Speaker 1: and Lee Anderson. Okay, I I will say this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there it is kind of hard to read because these
Speaker 1: people are journalists. They're not normally book authors, and the
Speaker 1: idea of starting at the beginning of a story and
Speaker 1: then moving through to the end of it is like
Speaker 1: an entirely foreign concept to them. So it is constantly
Speaker 1: jumping around between sixteen million things. But yeah, there is
Speaker 1: a lot of there's a lot of very good stuff
Speaker 1: in there. Yeah, it's an incredible resource. I would also
Speaker 1: suggest reading, uh, the there's like a a bunch of
Speaker 1: articles that Robert Parry did from his consortium news about
Speaker 1: do you see and like stuff back in the day
Speaker 1: on it. Um, I would also say check out how
Speaker 1: well do you know your moon? Uh. That's another great resource.
Speaker 1: Has a lot of you know, like links and direct
Speaker 1: citations of a bunch of documents and ship uh, all
Speaker 1: good stuff. Also, I would plug John Gorenfeld's book. Um, oh,
Speaker 1: it's called it's been bad, bad moon rising, bad moon rising. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: John is gray. He yeah, it's it's another really good
Speaker 1: book on that. Yeah, I think there's a new edition
Speaker 1: came out like very recently. Yeah, so I think he
Speaker 1: has it, actually a pdf of it or something for
Speaker 1: free on his website. Um, yeah, uh. And then another
Speaker 1: book I would suggest is gifts of deceit about the
Speaker 1: Thompson Park Scandal and care a gate. Another good one. God. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the thing about the MoD is like there's just like
Speaker 1: entire like there's entire genres of like crime that they
Speaker 1: do that like doesn't even like make most accounts of
Speaker 1: them because they're doing too much other crime. Yeah, literally,
Speaker 1: there's just so much crime too for there isn't just
Speaker 1: done so much that it's hard to keep track of everything.
Speaker 1: They literally have a million shell corporations and they literally
Speaker 1: do things unser different names and in different places and
Speaker 1: then different types of atrocities that it's like how are
Speaker 1: you supposed to keep up with all this? That's why
Speaker 1: they do it that way, because you're not supposed to.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean it is, I don't know, like
Speaker 1: figuring out how intelligence operations work is like easier than
Speaker 1: like trying to untangle this ship. Yeah, honestly like that that.
Speaker 1: That stuff was, you know, a little more on the nose.
Speaker 1: It's like, Oh yeah, clearly this is like a joint
Speaker 1: psychological operation and other like, you know, back channels for
Speaker 1: money and trafficking things and people and stuff. But then
Speaker 1: it's like, Oh God, What Company owns what? And how
Speaker 1: much do they make and like where do they move
Speaker 1: their money around? It's just like, I don't know. That's
Speaker 1: that side is like, how do I navigate this? Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I am extremely fortunate to be a part of
Speaker 1: a group of people who's working on this stuff. Now, Um,
Speaker 1: you know, we're gonna what we're going to try to
Speaker 1: do is sort of make like a Unification Church wikipedia
Speaker 1: kind of thing so that we have like all of
Speaker 1: it in one place and then, you know, potentially down
Speaker 1: the line maybe do like a people's history of the
Speaker 1: Unification Church or something like that, but in the meantime
Speaker 1: we're just compiling a bunch of information. Yeah, are there
Speaker 1: ways people can support you? And it also can support
Speaker 1: deprogramming imperialism in this the work you all have been doing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I have a patreon. It's a Lisa Majub a
Speaker 1: L I S A M A H J O U
Speaker 1: B uh. You can follow me on twitter at Alisa
Speaker 1: Underscore Majub same spelling. Uh. deprogramming imperialism has a twitter. Uh,
Speaker 1: it is, since deprogramming imperialism was not. was too long
Speaker 1: to put in as a user name. The one we
Speaker 1: are using is no more cults, which is no underscore,
Speaker 1: more underscore cults, Um. And then we have a instagram
Speaker 1: as well, under deprogramming imperialism, I believe. Let me double check,
Speaker 1: M Hm, and we will. We will put links to
Speaker 1: all this stuff in the show notes. Yeah, awesome, cool, cool, cool. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's do programming imperialism. Just together, together words. Sorry, it's
Speaker 1: just not working. The words are smashed together. There's no space.
Speaker 1: That's that's. There we go. I did it. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I I think. I think. I think that's going to
Speaker 1: be all for us today. Um, thank you so so
Speaker 1: much for joining us. Thank you for having me. I
Speaker 1: really appreciate this and hopefully, you know, this will just
Speaker 1: have helped more people to sort of like understand what's
Speaker 1: going on there and sort of the history of the
Speaker 1: U C and uh, as well as, you know, maybe
Speaker 1: shine some light on the obbeys assassination and UH. You know,
Speaker 1: the more people who know about this, the better, I think. Um,
Speaker 1: so I really she ate being on here because you
Speaker 1: guys have a pretty big platform. So that means a
Speaker 1: lot to me. Yeah, and I'm I'm I'm really I'm really,
Speaker 1: really glad that that you came on for this, because
Speaker 1: I don't know, like it's it's really like it's really
Speaker 1: easy to like cover stuff like this and just never
Speaker 1: actually sort of like get to the human, like the
Speaker 1: actual human impact of it. Yeah, and so, yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: really glad I was able to talk to you. Thank you.
Speaker 1: I yeah, I'm glad I was able to talk to
Speaker 1: because that it was fun. It was fun, it was
Speaker 1: informative and getting the word out. We're doing it, we're
Speaker 1: doing the thing. Yeah, yeah, it feels good. On pictures
Speaker 1: of Alexandrow dooking moments after his daughter exploded in a
Speaker 1: car bomb. Again, I don't have any problems beating puppies.
Speaker 1: Oh No, this is recorded. Welcome to it could happen here,
Speaker 1: the podcast where Garrettson Davis is fine with violence against dogs. Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: as wow, cancellable, cancellable. deathly allergic to dogs, but they
Speaker 1: love you so much. So if people were people were
Speaker 1: going to pick an assassination method for me just to
Speaker 1: get a whole bunch of dog Dander and rub it
Speaker 1: on my pillow and I'll be dead with I'll be
Speaker 1: dead the next morning. I've I've seen you get rubbed
Speaker 1: on by a bunch of dogs and you've you've never
Speaker 1: died yet. No, yeah, that's get uncomfortable and you have
Speaker 1: to use your inhaler and it's you know, but I don't.
Speaker 1: I just I just ignore that. You get uncomfortable and
Speaker 1: you have to use your in Halor. Robert's like, that's great,
Speaker 1: I'm super thrilled with that outcome. You know what? Other
Speaker 1: outcome I'm thrilled with. Oh good, so sick. Transition. So
Speaker 1: we are talking about the assassination of Alexander Dugan's daughter. It's,
Speaker 1: it's a it's a it's it's kind of a wild story.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of weird things going on. We still
Speaker 1: don't know much about what actually happened. Um, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of conflicting theories, a lot of experts who are
Speaker 1: saying different things. Quote Unquote experts who are saying different things. Uh,
Speaker 1: it's it's wild. But I have a little right up
Speaker 1: here that we're going to go through based on what
Speaker 1: I assume everyone's questions will be about this assassination. UH,
Speaker 1: first thing, probably before we before we get into Alexander
Speaker 1: Dugan's daughter. I guess it's probably worth clarifying who Alexander
Speaker 1: Dugan is because to understand the nature of this assassination
Speaker 1: and possible motives, it's important to know who he is
Speaker 1: as a person. So I know we've talked about Dugan
Speaker 1: on the show before kind of briefly, but Alexander Dugan
Speaker 1: is Russian traditionalist, neo fascist, political theorist. Um. Some people
Speaker 1: call him a philosopher. I think that's being a little generous. Son. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: he was born in nineteen sixty two into a high
Speaker 1: ranking military family and a Dugan spent his early years
Speaker 1: as an anti communist dissident in the collapsing Soviet Union.
Speaker 1: He joined various dissident ultra nationalist, occult Andy Semitic and
Speaker 1: Fascist groups or collectives that sprung up during the last
Speaker 1: two decades of the Soviet Union. Uh, in the nineties
Speaker 1: he was one of the founders of the Russian National
Speaker 1: Bolshevik Party, which he left in the late nineties because
Speaker 1: the party was not fascist enough. Um. So he he
Speaker 1: left the political party he helped, he helped start because
Speaker 1: it was it had too many of the Bolshevik parts
Speaker 1: of the National Bolshevik Party. Um, he, he, kind of
Speaker 1: carries on some of the traditionalist political philosophy from Twentieth
Speaker 1: Century Esoteric Fascist writers like Julius Cevola, whose book on
Speaker 1: Pagan Imperialism Dugan translated into Russian, just as a brief
Speaker 1: bit of context for people. Now you know they're fascism
Speaker 1: and communism are are portrayed as in strict, strict opposition
Speaker 1: to each other. But if we're going back to the
Speaker 1: twenties and thirties, a lot of these guys had a
Speaker 1: lot of things in common. There were times where the
Speaker 1: Communist Party of Germany and the Nazis would fight the
Speaker 1: cops together. Um, there were people in the Nazi party
Speaker 1: who were more or less national bolsheviks in terms of
Speaker 1: their political outlook. Um, and they were all murdered on
Speaker 1: the night of long knives. Like the Nazi party had
Speaker 1: a left wing that it purged. Anyway. This is just like,
Speaker 1: this is not coming out of nowhere, this isn't a
Speaker 1: new development. Well, and the thing with Dugan is that
Speaker 1: he really is does carry on that type of Red
Speaker 1: Brown alliance idea with a lot of his politics of
Speaker 1: of of bringing together some of the more harder fascists
Speaker 1: with some people who are more like authoritarian Communists, Um,
Speaker 1: and we see that with the National Bolshevik party at
Speaker 1: this point. Dugan is probably most known for his influence
Speaker 1: on Contemporary Russian politics, the NEO Eurasianism ideology, his writing
Speaker 1: on the multi pole or world theory and his fourth
Speaker 1: political theory about the ascension of Russia as the world's
Speaker 1: like traditionalist political power, Um, and usurping the kind of
Speaker 1: political dominance of the United States. And Dugan's Neo Eurasianism
Speaker 1: is described by Antonov, an eastern European far right scholar, as, quote,
Speaker 1: a form of Fascist ideology centered on the idea of
Speaker 1: revolutionizing the Russian society and building a tolitarian, Russian dominated
Speaker 1: Eurasian Empire that would challenge and eventually defeat its eternal adversary,
Speaker 1: represented by the United States and it's atlanticist allies, less
Speaker 1: springing about a new golden age of global political and
Speaker 1: cultural illiberalism, unquote. So it's it's very centered in just
Speaker 1: being against the ideas of liberalism and being against like
Speaker 1: globalist liberalism, like actual like globalization, Um, and still carrying
Speaker 1: over a lot of influences from esoteric writers like Julias
Speaker 1: Seviola in terms of like kids, anti modern, anti liberal
Speaker 1: politics based in like traditional, anti multicultural right, like this this. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: a lot of if you've ever seen someone screaming about
Speaker 1: like Global Homo or something like, that's probably one of
Speaker 1: these guys. Yeah, and that that Dugan's daughter actually, in
Speaker 1: her last ever interview, talks about that a little bit
Speaker 1: and we're yeah, yeah, like the like. There's there's there's
Speaker 1: there's a lot of people in the US who like
Speaker 1: see this ship and like this take it for anti imperialism,
Speaker 1: and it's basically because like they've lost the ability to
Speaker 1: like conceive of an empire that isn't the US, Britain
Speaker 1: or France, and even that's tenuous, and it's like guys
Speaker 1: like from a lot of these civil accounts, you get
Speaker 1: the attitude that, like, well, only the United States is
Speaker 1: capable of being imperialism, which is then just then just
Speaker 1: say you're anti us, just say you're anti the United States,
Speaker 1: because you're not anti imperialism, because, let me tell you something,
Speaker 1: there's been a lot of empires in history. Controversial statement
Speaker 1: from Robert Evans. Quite quite a few different empires over time.
Speaker 1: They're not all. America press probably worth like pointing out
Speaker 1: the Russia asset exists. Is An empire, right, it's just
Speaker 1: a contiguous one. It's it's one that that is joined
Speaker 1: by land separated by seas. Doesn't still be being an empire? Yes,
Speaker 1: as as we can see, with them trying to expand
Speaker 1: into Ukraine, which is heavily influenced itself by some of
Speaker 1: the theory that Dugan was writing from the nineties up
Speaker 1: until now, Um and then, kind of in reference to
Speaker 1: Dugan's influence on contemporary Russian politics, especially since Russia's so
Speaker 1: far failed invasion of Ukraine, Dugan is often referred to
Speaker 1: as quote unquote, Putin's brain or, quote unquote, Putin's Resputin Um.
Speaker 1: And while he is connected and has and while he
Speaker 1: is certainly well connected and has quite a bit of
Speaker 1: influence in Russia and the global far right movement in general,
Speaker 1: the degree to which he holds significant power in the
Speaker 1: decisions that Putin makes is definitely heavily contested among actual
Speaker 1: political experts. We think some of the whole Putin's brain
Speaker 1: and Putin's like resputent thing is a little bit over emphasis,
Speaker 1: over emphasized with sometimes Dugan's never held office. There's Dan
Speaker 1: Dugan's never we we, we, we don't even have a
Speaker 1: picture of Dugan and Putin together, like we don't even
Speaker 1: oh they've actually like been in the same room. We
Speaker 1: don't know if the same person, the same person. Yes,
Speaker 1: that's correct, Chris. The thing that is important to know
Speaker 1: about Putin as regards Dugan because again, as garrison said,
Speaker 1: not trying to make a statement here about the degree,
Speaker 1: like saying that he is or is not any kind
Speaker 1: of influence. But Vladimir Putin has been doing this, has
Speaker 1: been working towards the where he is now for decades
Speaker 1: and is a guy who has had a view of
Speaker 1: the world for decades that he's worked towards making real
Speaker 1: um and it's not a view of the world that
Speaker 1: you need to be. Dugan's an esotericist, like you do
Speaker 1: not need to think Esoteric Lee to understand what Vladimir
Speaker 1: Putin is doing. He wants to reunite the Russian imperial
Speaker 1: project that fell apart when the Soviet Union did, using
Speaker 1: violence and whatever other means he can do, which is
Speaker 1: why he's gone done what he's done in Georgia. Um
Speaker 1: It's why he's done doing what he's doing in Ukraine.
Speaker 1: This is not like complicated and Standing Putin's motivations are
Speaker 1: is not hard. You know, I think a lot of
Speaker 1: people have kind of leaned into that Putin's brain thing,
Speaker 1: especially since the invasion of Ukraine, because in in Dugan's
Speaker 1: seminal nineteen nineties seven book, the foundations of geopolitics, Dugan
Speaker 1: lays out his vision to divide the world up and
Speaker 1: calling for Russia to rebuild this influence through annexations and alliances. Well,
Speaker 1: all in a heavy opposition to Ukraine as a sovereign state,
Speaker 1: and a lot of Dugan's writing has been about trying
Speaker 1: to reconquer Ukraine and absorb it into Russia. Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: and he's a useful guy, but yeah, I guess. And
Speaker 1: and like the the in an article from the from
Speaker 1: the Guardian, that I was I was using for one
Speaker 1: of the sources for this episode. They they claim that
Speaker 1: the foundations of geopolitics was a very popular book in
Speaker 1: the Russian General Staff Academy Um and kind of was.
Speaker 1: Was One of the things that shifted Dugan from like
Speaker 1: a weird esoteric dissident to actually becoming a more influential
Speaker 1: and prominent pillar of the conservative establishment inside Russia. Um,
Speaker 1: as as Dugan's writing evolved, started to emphasize less, the
Speaker 1: more esoteric elements his writing did, did get more popular
Speaker 1: in Russia. Um, but at this point he is stronger
Speaker 1: as a symbol, uh less so than having actual personal
Speaker 1: influence over decision making. You know what does have influence
Speaker 1: of your decision making? They have influence of your decision making.
Speaker 1: You're you're the sub the subliminal messages that we've been
Speaker 1: placing insider ads for the past three years. Um. That
Speaker 1: leads that that has been an esotary project, of of
Speaker 1: of my design to to influence you to buy these
Speaker 1: products and services. That's right, James, I'm I'm trying to
Speaker 1: I think we have a couple of different esoteric projects.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure what Y'alls is. I'm trying to get
Speaker 1: people to bring the Subaru Baja back. That was the
Speaker 1: super a little truck. Bet in the back it was
Speaker 1: the my God, how can yeah, I was gonna come
Speaker 1: speaking of one word, but I realized when that was
Speaker 1: taking me and I stared up to me. It is
Speaker 1: a cup. Yeah, it is a cuck. It's my second
Speaker 1: favorite cup. Why didn't they call it the Superu cuck,
Speaker 1: and I would buy one immediately. Yeah, the Super Yah,
Speaker 1: please buy, please, by Super Cuck. Enjoy these adverts and
Speaker 1: we're back. All right, so let's I think it's now
Speaker 1: actually time to talk about the the actual casualty, this assassination,
Speaker 1: which is got Alexander Dugan instead Daria, Daria dead, Gaina
Speaker 1: more like it. Yeah, so she was. She was. She
Speaker 1: was born on December fift Daria herself was a Russian
Speaker 1: journalist and far right activist who was very vocal in
Speaker 1: support of their journalists. Well, I mean yeah, she, she.
Speaker 1: She did work for a number of journalists, of journalism outlets,
Speaker 1: not only Russia, including in France, like she she, she did.
Speaker 1: She was a journalist. Um, she did work. It wasn't
Speaker 1: very good. She's a bad person, um, but she worked
Speaker 1: for a few French outlets. Um, she was very vocal
Speaker 1: in support of the invasion of Ukraine. In accordance with
Speaker 1: her father's political theories. She studied at the Moscow State University,
Speaker 1: specializing in the political philosophy of late Neo platonism. So
Speaker 1: you already know she's going to be really annoying. Anyone
Speaker 1: if it tries to describe that degree program to me,
Speaker 1: I might hit them like absolutely no, yea, we, we, we, we, we, we.
Speaker 1: We have, in that one sentence alone, laid out justification
Speaker 1: for assassination. Okay, well, okay, come on, I think I
Speaker 1: think that's a bit too far. I'm gonna say right
Speaker 1: now bought property with land so that when people say
Speaker 1: the word Neo platonism around me I can get rid
Speaker 1: of the body. So, Um, here's some fun facts about
Speaker 1: about Daria. She played the flute. Um, she was, she
Speaker 1: was in her she was in a band, I think
Speaker 1: in college, uh, called Dason may refuse, which was an
Speaker 1: electronic music band. Now, Dason did actually rock. It probably
Speaker 1: did slaugh of I mean like and this. And this
Speaker 1: was when she was less of a fascist actually. Um, now,
Speaker 1: just in terms of something that kind of an interesting
Speaker 1: note here. So dason translates to here, being, which was,
Speaker 1: which is one of Alexander Dugan's favorite favorite terms. It's
Speaker 1: it's related to the philosophical concepts, uh, upposed by Martin Heideger. Yes, uh, so, it's.
Speaker 1: It's just a little nerdy reference to both her father.
Speaker 1: I guess she was probably exposed to the phrase via
Speaker 1: her father, but it's a hideger reference. So she named
Speaker 1: her electronic music band off of hider. If you're tried
Speaker 1: to kill her ghost now, which is pretty funny. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: if you're in a band with a hiding a reference
Speaker 1: to leave that band now. But but yeah, when she
Speaker 1: when she was in the university, her friends say she
Speaker 1: actually she actually wasn't really into her dad or her
Speaker 1: dad's politics. Um, her her friends talk about that. When
Speaker 1: she when she was in university, she really liked Um,
Speaker 1: guide to board. Um, she was interested in some of
Speaker 1: the more yeah, like just just quickly, it's like a
Speaker 1: lot of popular stuff on the left now ship like
Speaker 1: a crime thing, but also stuff like Um, AD busters
Speaker 1: is influenced by guide to boy. Yeah, I mean also
Speaker 1: like the French Revolution in yeah, to for hundred and
Speaker 1: twenty years and never aged. He was also, I will
Speaker 1: say this is a thing a lot of people don't
Speaker 1: know about. The board was influential in the development of
Speaker 1: war games and and is part of the intellectual tradition
Speaker 1: that gave us warhammer. That that that actually makes a
Speaker 1: lot of sense. It makes it. It makes complete sense. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: but but yeah, so she was. She was into stuff
Speaker 1: like that inside and yeah, I don't think. I don't
Speaker 1: think she would have described herself as that. Um, but
Speaker 1: that was the types of stuff that she liked talking
Speaker 1: about and that was the types of groups that she
Speaker 1: was involved with. She she never talked about her father
Speaker 1: and her father was already a very popular um person
Speaker 1: at this time, specifically inside Russian universities. But she she was.
Speaker 1: She did not drive with that type of stuff. Um.
Speaker 1: And then by by the end of her kind of
Speaker 1: time in university, she started shift doing more towards what
Speaker 1: her friends described as orthodoxy. Um. I would say it's
Speaker 1: like she s shod more towards her father's traditionalist stuff.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure what exactly caused this shift to happen, Um,
Speaker 1: but here's a quote from one of her friends. Quote.
Speaker 1: It was strange because before that she has not shown
Speaker 1: any interest in him and her father had no influence
Speaker 1: on her. Um. And it's so, yeah, something by the
Speaker 1: by the end she by the by the end of
Speaker 1: her time in university and she got and by the
Speaker 1: time she was out of university, Um, she actually just
Speaker 1: became an activist with the International Eurasianism movement of do
Speaker 1: again and began to arrange lectures for her father and
Speaker 1: became a very active supporter of his, and then after
Speaker 1: that she started writing for state run news outlets like
Speaker 1: rt and running parts of her father's website, where she
Speaker 1: was then listed as his press secretary, and started to
Speaker 1: appear at the events of the Eurasian Movement as a
Speaker 1: speaker as well. So she she shifted in like the
Speaker 1: last like probably ten fifteen years past, like ten years
Speaker 1: she was shifting more towards her father, even though when
Speaker 1: she was in her twenties she was more into some
Speaker 1: of the French leftist stuff. That doesn't surprise number one,
Speaker 1: it's pretty normal for young people to rebel against their
Speaker 1: parents and that era and be interested in stuff outside
Speaker 1: of it. And like, I think there's a couple of
Speaker 1: different ways this could have gone, but the thing that
Speaker 1: makes total sense to me is that she's rebellious. She
Speaker 1: explores some things. The primary things she learns is that
Speaker 1: life out there is hard and like making a living
Speaker 1: on your own and completely like is difficult and her
Speaker 1: dad has a lot of influence and she can make
Speaker 1: a lot of money working for him. And so back
Speaker 1: back she goes. I don't know, I don't know. She lost.
Speaker 1: She lost a lot of her friends over this because
Speaker 1: when she started doing stuff with her dad, her friends
Speaker 1: were like situations. People are like no fun that, we're
Speaker 1: not going to hang out with you. It seems like yeah, it's, it's,
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of actually a bomber. Like I, I only,
Speaker 1: I only, I only got to this part of her
Speaker 1: life um a few days ago when I was doing
Speaker 1: the research, and this is actually something I stumbled upon
Speaker 1: later into my research for this episode because I was
Speaker 1: nasally I was momly focused on the actual assassination part
Speaker 1: Um and I when I found this, I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's actually kind of sad. Yeah, I will say I
Speaker 1: don't know if this is at work here, but there
Speaker 1: is a thing in like there is a current in
Speaker 1: the French altip left like after sixty eight going into
Speaker 1: the seventies and eighties that gets like really fucking weird
Speaker 1: and kind of ghost fascist based around it's it's a
Speaker 1: long story. Where there there there's a whole thing about
Speaker 1: a guy who was like sort of involved in the
Speaker 1: alto left circles who was like I think he'd been
Speaker 1: in he'd been in a concentration camp, but he'd been
Speaker 1: in one of the ones that like wasn't an extermination
Speaker 1: camp and he started doing like Holocaust denial. And there's
Speaker 1: like this whole fucking thing where like a bunch of
Speaker 1: these people kind of went really, like, went really fucking weird.
Speaker 1: The rest of people, like the rest of also left
Speaker 1: to own them and like they like. We're kind of
Speaker 1: involved a bunch of the sort of like the like
Speaker 1: founding the French neo fascism. I mean, it's not like.
Speaker 1: It's not it's not a path that has never happened before.
Speaker 1: That's not coming out of nowhere, especially when your father
Speaker 1: is who he is. That's not that's not surprising. So
Speaker 1: when she started, so, yeah, and in the past few
Speaker 1: years she started acting as her father's press secretary, scheduling
Speaker 1: events for him. She was doing she was doing more
Speaker 1: writing on her own, Um, in various outlets, including state
Speaker 1: run outlets, but also outlets in other countries. Um, but
Speaker 1: definitely shifting more towards the kind of traditionalist durationism, Um
Speaker 1: side of politics. Earlier this year she was sanctioned by
Speaker 1: both US and UK authorities, who under under accusations that
Speaker 1: she was significantly contributing to online disinformation around Russia's invasion
Speaker 1: Um and in an interview just to few months before
Speaker 1: her death, Daria expressed pride that both she and her
Speaker 1: father had been targeted by Western sanctions. That kind of
Speaker 1: she kind of a board, as like as like a
Speaker 1: badge of honor Um and imperialism. In it's filing, the
Speaker 1: UK office of financial sanctions called duging a frequent, high
Speaker 1: profile contributor of disinformation in relation to Ukraine and the
Speaker 1: Russia invasion of Ukraine on various online platforms. And to
Speaker 1: get a sense of how she actually politically described herself
Speaker 1: in the months before her death. In an interview from May,
Speaker 1: she described herself as, quote, a political observer of the
Speaker 1: International Eurasianist Movement and an expert in international relations. My
Speaker 1: field of activity is in the analysis of European politics
Speaker 1: and geopolitics. In this capacity, I appear on Russian, Pakistani, Turkish,
Speaker 1: Chinese and Indian television channels, presenting a multipolar world view
Speaker 1: of political processes form. A particularly important issue is the
Speaker 1: development of the multipolar world theory. It is clear that
Speaker 1: the globalist movement is over and the end of liberalism
Speaker 1: has come, the end of liberal history, unquote. So and
Speaker 1: and guess, and guess what she thinks is going to
Speaker 1: replace liberal history. It's it's just I have some theories.
Speaker 1: It's Orthodox, traditionalist Russian fascism. Um. She in that same interview,
Speaker 1: she described the war in Ukraine as, quote, a clash
Speaker 1: between globalist and Eurasian civilization. I'll let I'll let my
Speaker 1: friends in Kiev know what they are. That's great, they'll
Speaker 1: be excited by that. Yeah, it is. It is one
Speaker 1: of the things that's been sort of interesting to me
Speaker 1: about this whole thing is like, okay, so do do
Speaker 1: you can sort of comes out of like like Russian
Speaker 1: national bullshit was into some extent right, but then, like
Speaker 1: if you look at the propaganda about Ukraine, it's like, okay,
Speaker 1: these people are all, these people are all Nazis, but
Speaker 1: like also with their communists, and also they're gay, and
Speaker 1: it's like yes, well, that that's the thing is like,
Speaker 1: you know, do people like Dougin and Dogin know well,
Speaker 1: being absolutely fascists, can can pretend to be against Nazis
Speaker 1: for various reasons? Um, DO GINA? Definitely, uh, and and
Speaker 1: do good as well. Are Are Pretty Homophobic, Um, and
Speaker 1: they they view gayness as a sign of like degenerate liberalism,
Speaker 1: so like. But like, they definitely walk that line between like,
Speaker 1: but you know that and that that's the thing. A
Speaker 1: lot of that, like what red, Brown alliance are National
Speaker 1: Bolshevik type things do is walk that line and how
Speaker 1: they how they try to present there, you know, cultural
Speaker 1: beliefs who are to heavily based in traditionalism versus their
Speaker 1: versus their beliefs on like fascism and communism. Um. But
Speaker 1: anyway we are. Let's see, and in her last ever interview, Um,
Speaker 1: which took place on the day of her death, Um,
Speaker 1: do Gina said that at quote, Western just Biggie, by
Speaker 1: the way, I don't know who that is. Oh my God. Alright,
Speaker 1: we're doing a biggie episode next you're of your homework
Speaker 1: for this week. Please come back next week and do better.
Speaker 1: So in in in her last ever interview, she said that, quote,
Speaker 1: Western utilitarianism has come to an end and a special
Speaker 1: military operation is, it seems to me, than the last
Speaker 1: nail in the coffin of this world hedgemon. Um. And
Speaker 1: then later on the interview she talked about how environmentalism,
Speaker 1: support for transgender people, quote, the conversion of a person
Speaker 1: into a homosexual unquote, as well as span is m
Speaker 1: and freaking is Um are tools with which the West
Speaker 1: is trying to fragment society and reduce its population. Free
Speaker 1: my friends who dumps to dived so they could buy
Speaker 1: more drugs fifteen years ago. We're part of a conspiracy
Speaker 1: to fragment society. It's not that cocaine was expensive and
Speaker 1: the fucking trader Joe's didn't lock it's dumpster. It's that. Okay, awesome.
Speaker 1: So yeah, so, those, those, those were the views that
Speaker 1: she exposed hours before dying. So well, talking about the
Speaker 1: conversion of a person into a homosexual, transgender people, freakings
Speaker 1: Um as being the things that are destroying the west.
Speaker 1: To be clear, all of these things are based and
Speaker 1: showed in fact destroy the West. If the if, the
Speaker 1: thing that finally kills capitalism is dumpster diving teams, I
Speaker 1: will be thrilled, but I just don't see it happening.
Speaker 1: Uh So, before we get to the actual deed, let's
Speaker 1: set the stage for where this, uh this event took
Speaker 1: place and where everything went down. So it's August, a Saturday.
Speaker 1: Al Ender Dugan and UH Daria Dugina are attending this
Speaker 1: festival just outside of Moscow, where Dugan's making a planned
Speaker 1: appearance that Um and he gave a lecture that Saturday
Speaker 1: evening at this festival. Now, the festival was called the
Speaker 1: tradition quote unquote. Tradition is what it is, whatever ever
Speaker 1: everything calls it. So I wonder what the festivals about? Huh?
Speaker 1: Appreciation of the headline song from the play fiddler on
Speaker 1: the roof, Best Sung by Zero Mostel? Look it up.
Speaker 1: It's an incredible performance. That must have been it right.
Speaker 1: So the tradition festival is billed as, quote, a Patriotic
Speaker 1: Cultural Festival and family event for art, literature and Music Lovers.
Speaker 1: It's just the same, this thing I've ever heard. So
Speaker 1: it's basically it's it's this traditionalist kind of quasi fast.
Speaker 1: Is Like Art Festival for people who like Neo platonism.
Speaker 1: Is What it actually is. Of It. It takes place
Speaker 1: in Zarkava. Manner. It's this, it's this biggest state about
Speaker 1: twelve miles away from Moscow. Um, the tradition festival is
Speaker 1: supported by the Presidential Fund for Cultural Initiatives, the Ministry
Speaker 1: of Culture and tourism for the Moscow region, among a
Speaker 1: few other kind of sponsors and both Daria and her
Speaker 1: father were special guests at this year's festival. Um. In
Speaker 1: an interview, a colleague of Dugina's said that the conversation
Speaker 1: topics at the festival between Duke and his daughter and
Speaker 1: other tradition festival attendees Um. They said, they said this
Speaker 1: in an interview. Quote. We talked about the Russian idea,
Speaker 1: the empire and the cultural war. Unquote. So that's just
Speaker 1: like the regular conversations you're having at this festival. To
Speaker 1: give you a sense of like what this thing actually is. Um,
Speaker 1: and the blast that eventually that did kill uh Dugan's daughter,
Speaker 1: happened shortly after Dukina left the tradition festival Um at
Speaker 1: the estate where her father had given a lecture just
Speaker 1: hours previous. Um, do you know who? Do you know
Speaker 1: who won't blow up? And I don't. I don't want
Speaker 1: to say that. Look, I'm gonna say right now. If
Speaker 1: you are planning to assassinate a member of the Dugan
Speaker 1: family and once spot to sponsor our podcast, we're on board.
Speaker 1: I think we're fine with that, actually, because it just counted. Yeah, yeah, actually,
Speaker 1: we'll do it for free. Just give us a name,
Speaker 1: because we have and we're down. This is this is
Speaker 1: part of our radical Freakan identity. This is, this is
Speaker 1: this is what I'm gonna do in between stealing old
Speaker 1: pumpkin spice coffee from the trader Joe's dumpster. Unbelievable. I
Speaker 1: will do I will do a traditionalist because pumpkin spice
Speaker 1: coffee is destroying the West. We have to kill it. Yeah, Robert,
Speaker 1: Robert and Danie fucking love the Pumpkin spice. It's amazing.
Speaker 1: It's destroying degenerate liberalism in the form of Pumpkin spice coffee,
Speaker 1: not enjoyed in any wayship. I don't want to Yuck you. Yum,
Speaker 1: I'm thank you. Thank you, thank you. I would like
Speaker 1: to Robert. Oh my God, here's that break. You know what? Yes,
Speaker 1: we are, we are back. Um, I'M gonna open up
Speaker 1: with a quote from from the Bromo. I don't know
Speaker 1: who that I don't know what that is. Oh, the bomb. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Mr Bomb, when you exploded, what's going through your head? Then?
Speaker 1: We are thinking about hot Stariadina. But no, it's actually no, no, perfect.
Speaker 1: We're finishing assassination week to actually to actually justify some
Speaker 1: of our kind of glee at this happening because Dukee
Speaker 1: is a horrible person. They're both trash. Yeah, I am
Speaker 1: going to read a quote from Port Sour in the Guardian. Quote.
Speaker 1: On Saturday night, the violence that the alternationalist Russian thinker,
Speaker 1: Alexander ducan has propagandized for decades suddenly entered his own
Speaker 1: life when his daughter was killed in a car bomb
Speaker 1: on the outskirts of Moscow, and I think that's a
Speaker 1: really important thing that, like, he's made his entire career
Speaker 1: off of doing violence on other people and and promoting
Speaker 1: genocides on people that he doesn't like. They are a
Speaker 1: people I know who are dead because of the war
Speaker 1: that he and his daughter urged to happen. So, yeah, like,
Speaker 1: it's it's it's what it's, it's it's it's the same
Speaker 1: thing as like when every single fucking Nicon guld dies,
Speaker 1: like no one should no one show, no one should
Speaker 1: feel bad about them at all because they dedicated their
Speaker 1: entire lives to having another country be invaded and having
Speaker 1: all these people killed their lives destroyed. So fuck them.
Speaker 1: But yeah, the violence, the violence that he's fetishized and
Speaker 1: and propagandized for decades has has actually entered his life
Speaker 1: for like the first time now. And so, after giving
Speaker 1: a talk at the festival, Dugan and his daughter were
Speaker 1: due to leave the venue together in the same car,
Speaker 1: if but at the last minute Dugan decided to travel
Speaker 1: separately and take different vehicles. We stepped off by the
Speaker 1: C I A, according to a friend and family. Now,
Speaker 1: because at the last minute he did decide to take
Speaker 1: another vehicle. This actually has spawned a lot of conspiracy theories, Um,
Speaker 1: which will kind of get into it a bit later.
Speaker 1: But but this, this is what happened, is that they
Speaker 1: were they were they were going to leave together and
Speaker 1: the last minute they decided to take separate vehicles. Um,
Speaker 1: five minutes later, while, do you note, was driving a
Speaker 1: Toyota Land Cruiser on the highway. That makes the tragedy.
Speaker 1: That's a fine car. It didn't deserve to in that way. Ye, Robert,
Speaker 1: why couldn't it? Why couldn't it have been afford some
Speaker 1: sometimes sacrifices are necessary for the cause. Yeah, I'm Land
Speaker 1: Cruiser on a flag. Let's put let's let let's all
Speaker 1: pull one out for comrade Toyota Land Cruiser. You served
Speaker 1: us well. You made the ultimate sacrifice so that mankind
Speaker 1: might be free to go off roading. So as as
Speaker 1: as as she was driving this Toyota Land Cruiser on
Speaker 1: the highway, a bomb exploded in her car, killing her
Speaker 1: immediately and sadly ripping the vehicle apart Um. Witnesses say
Speaker 1: debris was thrown all over the road as the Toyota
Speaker 1: Land Cruiser immediately lost control and crashed into a fence
Speaker 1: and engulfed in flames. Noble stuff. Yeah, I mean a
Speaker 1: really solid assassination. It is, what's one of the better
Speaker 1: executed ones, especially, especially for a car like it's one
Speaker 1: of the most impressive car bomb attacks that has ever happened. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that car bomb. That car bomb killed nobody, but yeah,
Speaker 1: that was quite a card. It was a big moon.
Speaker 1: We thought that was an air strike it. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: definitely a so Um. Eyewitnesses called the fire brigade, but
Speaker 1: by the time they arrived the entire car was up
Speaker 1: in flames and firefighters only found one badly burnt corpse
Speaker 1: in the remains of the vehicle. So investigators say an
Speaker 1: explicit device planted under the car went off in the
Speaker 1: vehicle caught fire. This happened about twelve miles west of
Speaker 1: Moscow on in the village near the village of Oh boy,
Speaker 1: you don't need to try that. Nobody needs vallims the Zimmi. Okay,
Speaker 1: that's me near near the village of bullshower Vel Zimmy,
Speaker 1: at around nine thirty PM local time. Investigators do believe
Speaker 1: the bombing was, quote, premeditated and in the moment. Guys
Speaker 1: just walking down the street with a bomb driving M
Speaker 1: why not? It was. It was. It wasn't the vehicle error.
Speaker 1: This was there was a bomb planted. No forward or
Speaker 1: a Chevy, a pinto. Sure, yeah, if if a fucking
Speaker 1: F one fifty goes up like that, I'm blaming Ford.
Speaker 1: But no, because must have been a bombing. So the
Speaker 1: bomb was placed under the car on the driver's side. Now,
Speaker 1: a friend of the family named Andre Krasnov, who's all
Speaker 1: to the head of the Russia Horizon Social Movement. Um
Speaker 1: was that one of the first ones to confirm the
Speaker 1: reports of of Daria's death and but also said that
Speaker 1: the bomb could have actually been intended for her father,
Speaker 1: and he gave this quote to media. Quote. This was
Speaker 1: the father's vehicle. Daria was driving another car, but she
Speaker 1: took his car. Today, while Alexander went in a different way.
Speaker 1: He returned, he was at the site of the tragedy.
Speaker 1: As far as I understand, Alexander, or probably them together,
Speaker 1: were the target. Unquote. Now, this is this is just speculation. Actually, Um,
Speaker 1: from what I can tell, there is actually more evidence
Speaker 1: suggesting the car was indeed registered to Daria Dugina. We.
Speaker 1: I don't believe it is her father's car. Uh. We
Speaker 1: there was. Some of the vehicle registration was leaked by
Speaker 1: a Russian opposition UH news, news site, like a new
Speaker 1: site in in Russia. UH, who's not state funded. Uh
Speaker 1: leaked the car registration. It was registered to Daria, not, not,
Speaker 1: not Alexander Dugan. Um. So, but it is very likely
Speaker 1: that Dugan may have been a target as well, like, very,
Speaker 1: extremely likely. Uh. It's it's hard, it's it's hard to say. Uh. Now,
Speaker 1: in one of the funniest parts of the assassination, footage
Speaker 1: posted on telegram appears to show Mr Dugan walking up
Speaker 1: to the side of the crash. Hey In shock, with
Speaker 1: his with his mouth just gaping open and hands on
Speaker 1: his head like he's in his surprised. It's one of
Speaker 1: the funniest things I've ever seen. He's walking up to
Speaker 1: the side of the crash like, Oh, it's very that
Speaker 1: is that is the that's the sound of the face
Speaker 1: he's making. Is Um we we love to see a
Speaker 1: wizard in distress. So sad wizard. So the attack happened
Speaker 1: on Saturday and then come Monday, the Federal Security Service,
Speaker 1: or the the FSB, Uh said that the murder has
Speaker 1: been solved. Come, come, come, the next Monday. And this
Speaker 1: is this is not true. This is what we call
Speaker 1: a lie. From the FSC, yes, that's that's really disappointing
Speaker 1: and untruth. Yeah, that's wow. From the Russian FBI? No,
Speaker 1: no intelligent services ever told a lie. That's disappointing. So so, yes,
Speaker 1: according according to, according to the FSB, uh, the the
Speaker 1: attack was mastermind by the Ukrainian secret services and carried
Speaker 1: out by an ace of Ukrainian national names Batalia Vulk
Speaker 1: who fled? Last name? Yeah, Johnny, racist, keep it the fan.
Speaker 1: Did it again. Who fled to Estoda, uh Estonia, following
Speaker 1: the killing? Um, so, Russia, Russia's FPS, did a very
Speaker 1: brief investigation. Yes, sorry, Russia. Russia's FSB did a very
Speaker 1: brief investigation. Claimed that it was this female Ukrainian citizen,
Speaker 1: Um and that, and that she fled the next day,
Speaker 1: which was Sunday. Ukraine says, uh Nah, not really. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that is I mean, basically that Ukraine has made uh yeah,
Speaker 1: did at that noise. It's one of those things. I
Speaker 1: would not be surprised, obviously, if Ukraine did it and
Speaker 1: they have the people responsible or some of their network
Speaker 1: are still in country. Of course you you make a denial,
Speaker 1: but if Ukraine did it and they were out of
Speaker 1: the country, I can't imagine why they wouldn't be like, yeah, man,
Speaker 1: we fucking did yeah, so we're at war. I'll read
Speaker 1: the actual statements. So Ukrainian official dismissed the accusations of
Speaker 1: Ukraine's involvement in the incident. Quote. Ukraine, of course, has
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with this, because we are not
Speaker 1: a criminal state, which is the Russian Federation, and even
Speaker 1: less a terrorist state. Said Uh Mike Helio PODILLAC, who
Speaker 1: is an advisor to President Zelinsky. So yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: maybe Ukraine obviously denies involvement in this. Um, there's a
Speaker 1: bunch of people it could be. Could be Ukraine, could
Speaker 1: be the CIA, could be Ukraine and the CIA could
Speaker 1: be the FSB or the G R. A lot of
Speaker 1: people have a lot of people have theorized all of
Speaker 1: those things. Yeah, there's really no way to know a
Speaker 1: lot of this. Yeah, are we are we going to
Speaker 1: get into the person who destinated the bomb, more like
Speaker 1: the car that? We don't. We don't. We don't know
Speaker 1: what actually happened. I'm going to get to some bit later,
Speaker 1: but some of the actual mechanisms that caused it to
Speaker 1: happen are are still unclear because because the FSB is
Speaker 1: not like given us any definitive evidence on how this
Speaker 1: thing actually worked. But the head of the UH, the
Speaker 1: Nets People's Republic, they issued their own statement on telegram
Speaker 1: saying vile villains, the terrorists, scoundrels. So they're just they're
Speaker 1: just doing a Cobra commander. That's awesome to eate. Alexander
Speaker 1: Dugan blew up his daughter in a car. We cherished
Speaker 1: the memory of Daria. She is a real Russian girl.
Speaker 1: There's as if that makes it worse, but like, if
Speaker 1: they've blown her up some other way, it would not
Speaker 1: have been as vile. But I just loved at the
Speaker 1: end it was she was a real Russian girl. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like Pinocchio. It's very funny. So some, some politicians
Speaker 1: and experts, quote UNQUOTE EXPERTS, I've said that Putin himself
Speaker 1: may have orchestrated the bombing, with little to new evidence
Speaker 1: and support of that theory. There was a British member
Speaker 1: of parliament said that Putin may have targeted Dugan over
Speaker 1: recent criticisms against his government, which I find to be
Speaker 1: very uh. Yeah, Putin's gotten rid of a shipload of
Speaker 1: guys who used to be close to him lately. And
Speaker 1: he didn't use car bombs, for they commit suicide, they
Speaker 1: get sick. You know, a lot of many historians or
Speaker 1: like you know, extremism kind of researchers are definitely kind
Speaker 1: of eyeing up the the FSB um. It's, you know
Speaker 1: it's but it's it's really it's it's really unclear. There
Speaker 1: there was Um uh. People have proposed that, like this,
Speaker 1: this attack was orchestrated to kind of create a wave
Speaker 1: of needed anger in Russia six months into their failed invasion.
Speaker 1: For him, Ruslan, a Trad a security researcher in the
Speaker 1: in the US think tank Atlantic Council, proposed that the
Speaker 1: the the FSB UH or or other Russian state kind
Speaker 1: of apparatus is could have been involved, saying that's evident
Speaker 1: that the murder of Dugana created a wave of needed
Speaker 1: anger in Russia and that, quote, Dugan is now mostly
Speaker 1: a symbol, not an instrument for the state. His role
Speaker 1: in the creation of current Kremlin mythology for Eurasia and
Speaker 1: the so called Russian world has already ended, and he
Speaker 1: and he can be sacrificed. Currently, the Russian army needs
Speaker 1: victories and a patriotic flame, so they they're kind of
Speaker 1: them opposing that. He was. It was like his symbolic
Speaker 1: sacrifice that like be sacrificed this figure. That means this thing,
Speaker 1: people will be willing to like keep on fighting. The
Speaker 1: Ukrainians literally have literally bombed and struck inside Russia at
Speaker 1: this point and killed fifty thou plus of their children.
Speaker 1: You would think that would be enough to make the
Speaker 1: Russians angry. Like blowing up this Weirdo's daughter isn't going
Speaker 1: to be the thing that Galvini is the nation. Well,
Speaker 1: to be clear, though, this is the kind of dumb
Speaker 1: ship the Atlantic Council will be. A stupid Atlantic Council ship, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: and one of the one of the funnier explanations that
Speaker 1: our theories being posited is by former Russian state deputy,
Speaker 1: uh Eliya Pomrov Um, who is now so, in an
Speaker 1: appearance on his Russian language opposition TV channel and Kiev,
Speaker 1: alleged that that Duino was killed by Russian partisans from
Speaker 1: a previously unknown anti Putin terrorist group dubbed the National
Speaker 1: Republican Army, and that both Dugan and his daughter were targets. And,
Speaker 1: according to this guy, the group authorized him to issue
Speaker 1: their manifesto via his telegram, Chattel Um, and this group
Speaker 1: is entirely made up. This is not real. This is this,
Speaker 1: is like this, like this, like this, like former Russians, this,
Speaker 1: this is like this. This, this former Russian official turned
Speaker 1: this like Ukrainian Lib Guy, who claims that it's this
Speaker 1: secret to Anti Putin liberal terrorist group that contacted him.
Speaker 1: And this is this is their first ever attack. That's
Speaker 1: that's that they're they're going public as this new terrorist group,
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna I'm gonna say this is the only
Speaker 1: one of these theories that is abs that that I
Speaker 1: don't believe. Like the this assassination is a lot like
Speaker 1: what happened to Epstein, where everyone who brings up a
Speaker 1: theory has some other reason for having that theory, and
Speaker 1: so I don't trust anything anyone says about it. But
Speaker 1: every theory about why he might how he might have died,
Speaker 1: is plausible right, like every all of these are plausible. Yeah, might,
Speaker 1: like I don't listen. I don't care what the Atlantic
Speaker 1: Council has to say, but yeah, it could have been
Speaker 1: the F FSB. I don't care about, like, what the
Speaker 1: Russian government has to say, but yeah, it could have
Speaker 1: been the Ukrainians, but definitely was not liberal terrorist groups.
Speaker 1: First bombing like this, like that. What what a the
Speaker 1: like the like the single thing where like you can
Speaker 1: instantly tell that someone is lying about what happened in
Speaker 1: the bombing is when they say a previously unknown group everything.
Speaker 1: It's so hard to bomb things. Yeah, like, so serge
Speaker 1: some money. Is a German political expert with particular focus
Speaker 1: on Russia and Eastern Europe. Yeah, he definitely has made
Speaker 1: a lot of statements talking about how Kremlin's version of
Speaker 1: events is definitely h he says, totally fake and absolutely
Speaker 1: out of the scale of possibility in terms of blaming
Speaker 1: it on this this one. You Krainian as off fighter
Speaker 1: who infiltrated Russia. Um and well, well so. The FSB
Speaker 1: has produced, quote unquote, evidence in support of this theory
Speaker 1: of saying that this Ukrainian citizen, who arrived in Russia
Speaker 1: in July with her daughter, rented an apartment in the
Speaker 1: same building as Dugina's and her into Russia as a Ukrainian,
Speaker 1: by the way, July of this year. Yes, as your child,
Speaker 1: rented an apartment in the same building as Dunkin's daughter,
Speaker 1: so specifically ducan's daughter, and spied on her. And like.
Speaker 1: The month before the killing, UM, the FSB released a
Speaker 1: purported passport photo of the Ukrainian citizen, as well as
Speaker 1: a footage that allegedly showed her in Russia with many people,
Speaker 1: including Ukrainian officials and kind of data analysts and like,
Speaker 1: disinformation researchers pointing out the various ways that that the
Speaker 1: document seems forged or digitally fabricated. Um and some landy
Speaker 1: also says that this National Republican Army Group is completely
Speaker 1: made up, because there's there's there's no way that there
Speaker 1: could be a terrorist group like this here's like an
Speaker 1: actual group active that's not infiltrated by the by the
Speaker 1: FSB right now. Um, just like he's like, you're like not,
Speaker 1: like people can do individual acts of terrorism, but have
Speaker 1: like a like a big group like this comprised of
Speaker 1: like former Russian officials. He's like that's just impossible, that's
Speaker 1: just not that's just not gonna happen. Um, no, I
Speaker 1: I agree with all of that. Um Honestly, one reason
Speaker 1: why someone involved in the Russian security state is plausible
Speaker 1: is because this was such a good bombing. It's, it's
Speaker 1: I'm leaning whoever it is, because the CIA is also like.
Speaker 1: I'm leaning towards it's it's a state actor, or because, like,
Speaker 1: fucking bombs are hard to make, especially almost close to
Speaker 1: zero percent of the time when an independent terrorist group
Speaker 1: makes a bomb doesn't work the way it's meant to.
Speaker 1: And like this, this wasn't even ignition based. This blew
Speaker 1: up as she was driving on the highway. So people,
Speaker 1: if it was yeah, like it. It could have been
Speaker 1: like heat activated, it's it could have had like a
Speaker 1: timer based on ignition stuff. But like whatever mechanism that
Speaker 1: got to that they got it to blow up is
Speaker 1: more complicated than your average car bomb and it was
Speaker 1: way more successful in your average car bomb. So it's
Speaker 1: like it's it's bizarre how good they were at doing this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and like I think it's worth mentioning, like, okay, like
Speaker 1: there was a time where you could just, if you
Speaker 1: needed to make up car bomb, like you could hire
Speaker 1: a guy who would teach you how to make a
Speaker 1: car bomb. Like we don't live in that error anymore.
Speaker 1: Like that, like in the seventies you could plausibly do that, right, although,
Speaker 1: if that's a kind of training you want to offer
Speaker 1: for people to help try to take out Alexander again,
Speaker 1: a sponsor our podcast. Yeah, we're yeah, our our podcast
Speaker 1: sponsored by Becca Valley to Becca harder. I do believe
Speaker 1: that I have this one source here that that it's they,
Speaker 1: the FSP, claimed that the the bomb was either made
Speaker 1: of or equivalent to, five hundred grams of t n t,
Speaker 1: which is that which is complete bullshit. But it's just
Speaker 1: like in Oregon to get rid of a whale. But
Speaker 1: that's that's but that's just one of the statements that
Speaker 1: that's like that's one of the statements that that the
Speaker 1: FSB has made on this, that it's five drabs of
Speaker 1: t n T, which is just not true. Like that's
Speaker 1: just not how bombs work. Um, so now we're gonna
Speaker 1: get to something. We're gonna WE'RE gonna close off here
Speaker 1: by talking about the aftermath and the televised funeral of because, because,
Speaker 1: because it's kind of funny. So family friends, dozens of
Speaker 1: colleagues and acquaintances of Daria Dugina got together live on
Speaker 1: TV on the Tuesday after after after her death, to
Speaker 1: bid their final farewell to the, quote, unquote, journalist killed
Speaker 1: in the car bomb attack outside of Moscow. That's quoting
Speaker 1: from tasks, one of the one of the Russian state
Speaker 1: funded media outlets. Um, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: read a quote from Alexander Dukean who. This is something
Speaker 1: he said on the televised funeral. Quote. She had no
Speaker 1: fear really, and the last time we talked was at
Speaker 1: the festival tradition. She said, Daddy, I feel like a warrior,
Speaker 1: I feel like a hero. I want to be with
Speaker 1: my country, I want to be on the light side
Speaker 1: of the force. She's with a lot of Russian people now,
Speaker 1: with about other Russians right now, and just love that.
Speaker 1: Like saying that his daughter walked up to her and said, Daddy,
Speaker 1: I want to be on the light side of the force.
Speaker 1: She's like, like what I mean? A significant chunk of
Speaker 1: her body mass was converted into light. I just I just,
Speaker 1: I just said that. I I don't know. I just
Speaker 1: think it's a really funny thing that that ducan was
Speaker 1: saying less televised funeral. It's just it's a bizarre quote. Um,
Speaker 1: he also said that he wanted to bring up his
Speaker 1: daughter the way that he saw the ideal person to be, saying, quote,
Speaker 1: the first words that we taught her as a child
Speaker 1: were Russia, our state, our people and our empire. Unquote. Again,
Speaker 1: none of this is true, like, he's just a weird
Speaker 1: thing to say. It's your daughter's funeral. No, you gotta Look, look,
Speaker 1: he got daughter. It's like any other kind of investment right, like,
Speaker 1: and she's been exploded. You gotta get as much as
Speaker 1: you can, like really, it's like ringing out a towel,
Speaker 1: you know. Uh, you gotta just make that last little
Speaker 1: bit count and then, uh, Vladimir Putin, a few days after,
Speaker 1: after the assassination, signed a decree to to award her
Speaker 1: with the order of courage post posthumously. So she did.
Speaker 1: She did explode courageously. So, yeah, that is that. That's
Speaker 1: the Sassination of Dugan's daughter. It's wild because we don't
Speaker 1: really actually know. We don't we we don't really know
Speaker 1: who actually did it. We we we don't know much
Speaker 1: about the actual event. We're unsure of the actual the
Speaker 1: actual like ignition of the bomb, how the bomb actually operated.
Speaker 1: Who Actually did it? I mean, obviously like this, whether
Speaker 1: whether Dugan himself was a target or was specifically Um,
Speaker 1: Daria Dugina. Um. Now, obviously this was like heavily planned
Speaker 1: based off of her and Dugan's schedule, right, because they
Speaker 1: were both openly gonna be at this facial cultural festivals. Yeah, but, like,
Speaker 1: you know, like it did require like you know, people
Speaker 1: were tracking their movements, being like Oh, Dugan's gonna be
Speaker 1: at this festival on this day. Um. So, like it's
Speaker 1: there is a lot of like background work that went
Speaker 1: into this and it's fascinating that we just we actually
Speaker 1: know very little about who, who may have done this
Speaker 1: and how and how the bomb actually operated. The primary
Speaker 1: clue we have is just how good the bomb was,
Speaker 1: which which means one way or the other, a nation
Speaker 1: state actor, probably, but that does not really narrow it much. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: that was that was again one of the assassinations that
Speaker 1: happened shortly after we planned assassination week. Yeah, I feel
Speaker 1: like it's what like man like easily our most successful
Speaker 1: PR campaign. It's it's just so wild to think like
Speaker 1: how close Dugan was to die, because remember, like he
Speaker 1: was planning to leave in that same car and then,
Speaker 1: at the last minute, decided to take separate vehicles. So
Speaker 1: was he behind her when it went off? Like yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's why we got that great photo walking up to
Speaker 1: the site. Yeah, would you point this out to like
Speaker 1: actually been like five grams a t and t like
Speaker 1: held been when he walked up to it, like picture
Speaker 1: of going Oh my God, and then just his face
Speaker 1: would explode. But not mean like a lot of conspiracy
Speaker 1: theories have popped up, being like well, Dugan was supposed
Speaker 1: to be in that car and then he left last minute.
Speaker 1: Maybe he was in on it. Maybe, like maybe, you know,
Speaker 1: the Russian state told him this was gonna happen and
Speaker 1: he and he just let it happen and it was
Speaker 1: doing it for like this pr thing and like who knows,
Speaker 1: like like do maybe maybe Dugan didn't know that this
Speaker 1: was gonna happen, like, like there's there's no way to like,
Speaker 1: you're just, you're just, you're just speculating at that point.
Speaker 1: We're just creating theories in your own head. But it
Speaker 1: is it is kind of funny that that Dugan almost
Speaker 1: was in that car and then it wasn't, and that is, uh,
Speaker 1: that that is at the very least, an interesting aspect
Speaker 1: of this assassination. Um, but it's no evidence for one
Speaker 1: specific thing right now. It could just be like, Oh,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna make a stop somewhere on my way back
Speaker 1: home right like, so I'm gonna take this I'm gonna
Speaker 1: take this other vehicle, like. There's so many other possible
Speaker 1: reasons for why he may have switched cars. Um, but
Speaker 1: it is, it's it's another, it is another like thing
Speaker 1: to that that the people are turning into various theories. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would. The thing I say about that was, like
Speaker 1: you have to have a lot of faith in your
Speaker 1: bomb maker to drive behind a car bomb like intentionally,
Speaker 1: like you've got to be really like, I don't either
Speaker 1: that or you really hate your daughter in a way
Speaker 1: that's very reckless. Yeah, but you could just like turn
Speaker 1: off the highway or something or like, oh no, my
Speaker 1: car broke down. I need to make sure that down.
Speaker 1: You gotta drop her, you've got to press the big
Speaker 1: plunger into the box. Yeah, well, at least we're ending
Speaker 1: on a high note. Yeah, I have to have to. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I do like that. I've started. We started asassination week
Speaker 1: with a car bomb and we're ending it with she
Speaker 1: declared the nearest church. No doubt. It's like it's like
Speaker 1: poetry at rhymes and I want to be on the
Speaker 1: light side of the force. Quote. Fine, what are the
Speaker 1: according to do again? What are the last things Daria
Speaker 1: Dugan said? I wanted to be on the light side
Speaker 1: of the force. Somebody, if there were real journalists left
Speaker 1: in the world, somebody would reach out to George Lucas
Speaker 1: and just try to get a quote. And you're not.
Speaker 1: Don't email him. It's like just go to a mall
Speaker 1: near skywalker ranch and wait until he goes to the sparrow.
Speaker 1: You'll find him. All right, that doesn't for us today.
Speaker 1: Check under your driver's side door. If you're Alexander Dugan.
Speaker 1: Imagine if he wasn't like, if if he wasn't involved,
Speaker 1: he wasn't aware of this. He is going to be
Speaker 1: looking over his shoulder like nonstop. Now. Yeah, man into
Speaker 1: a car he hasn't like shimmied under. He had to
Speaker 1: look under every car he gets into. It's so funny. Uh,
Speaker 1: we'd love to see it anyway. All right, we're done. Hey,
Speaker 1: we'll be back Monday with more episodes every week from
Speaker 1: now until the heat death of the universe. It could
Speaker 1: happen here is a production of cool zone media. For
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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.