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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, Robert Evans here and I wanted to let

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Speaker 1: you know this is a compilation episode, so every episode

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Speaker 1: of the week that just happened is here in one

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Speaker 1: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

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Speaker 1: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

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Speaker 1: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 1: there's gotta be nothing new here for you, but you

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Speaker 1: can make your own decisions. Welcome to assassination week. P Bang, Bang,

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Speaker 1: timely expulsive device D C. Hello, welcome to assassination week.

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Speaker 1: I hope you like that intro from our good friend

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Speaker 1: when we commissioned to do that intro from so big

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Speaker 1: props to them for giving us like ten seconds of

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Speaker 1: their time to record that intro. Wow, it's it's been

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Speaker 1: so long since we've been planning to do this. Yep,

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Speaker 1: but here we are talking about killing people. It's great

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Speaker 1: because would be first thought of assassination week. We're like

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Speaker 1: how are we going to fill five episodes there? And

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Speaker 1: then there's like so many more assassinations happened, there were,

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Speaker 1: there were to the next day. Yeah, yeah, we've decided

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Speaker 1: to stop imagining things into the ether and yeah, and

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Speaker 1: so maybe assassination month is coming, who knows? Hey. Well,

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Speaker 1: here's the thing. If, if people keep getting assassinated, we

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Speaker 1: will do more assassination episodes. That is the way it works. Yep,

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Speaker 1: that's that is, sadly, part of our job. So we've

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Speaker 1: already done one, I guess we did. We did Shinzo

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Speaker 1: Abe a little bit, but we're coming back to him. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: WE'RE gonna WE'RE gonna do we're gonna later because we

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Speaker 1: have a lot more context information about the assassination now,

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Speaker 1: but that that is later this week. So we have

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Speaker 1: we have five episodes all about assassinations, most of which

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Speaker 1: have happened or tried to happen this year. Most, most

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Speaker 1: these are going to be pretty, pretty topical. Yeah, mine

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Speaker 1: is not, because I am so we gotta, we we

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Speaker 1: we we got, we got, we gotta start with the

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Speaker 1: historical assassination. We can't, we can't completely have it be

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Speaker 1: just randomly jumping back and forward between times. There has

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Speaker 1: to be some kind of logic. Yeah, well, the assassination

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Speaker 1: is the logic. But yeah, today we're talking about ETA

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Speaker 1: Basque nationalist Leftist Group and, more specifically, I guess they're

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Speaker 1: operation are the killing of Luis Carrero Blanco in Spain

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Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy three. It's like obviously not very, very current.

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Speaker 1: It's often pointed to is like a very influential assassination,

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Speaker 1: right one that made a difference and made a change.

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Speaker 1: Often it's called the only thing that ever did to

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Speaker 1: advance the cause of Spanish democracy, which I think like

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Speaker 1: this is, and I'm sorry if you think that they're

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Speaker 1: like based leftist terrorists. This is not not a generally

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Speaker 1: as as an organization, we don't like people who made

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Speaker 1: the journalists. That's one of US dances, and so there's

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Speaker 1: going to be a little bit of context around this

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Speaker 1: that we need to give first. So maybe if we

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Speaker 1: kick off with who they are and then we can

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Speaker 1: talk about that assassination in particular. How familiar folks do

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Speaker 1: we think, with ECTA? What do people know about them

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Speaker 1: in us? Not at all. Yeah, people all eat. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I think. Well, they're they're I think they're famous for

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Speaker 1: this assassination and for having literally the worst outfits I've

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Speaker 1: ever seen in my entire that that that the combination

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Speaker 1: of like the face mask in the beret is like

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Speaker 1: one of the most unfortunate things I've ever seen. It

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Speaker 1: is hideous. It is you. You've got just just were

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Speaker 1: the mask. It's cooler. AH, batch, it's awful, truly dogshit. Okay, Chris,

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Speaker 1: come in with the fashion police early on. I say,

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Speaker 1: where what you want. I think you will look great

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Speaker 1: and really alienating ski mask and Berry Audience Right at

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Speaker 1: the start. So if you've, if you've managed to, you know,

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Speaker 1: stick around through that hate speech, we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about they do. Yeah, they do like to wear a

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Speaker 1: ski mask. It's part of an esthetic, isn't it, though,

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Speaker 1: like there's an aesthetic of like, I guess eightiesies terrorism

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Speaker 1: that is like like woodland pattern kind of DPU Camoufla

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Speaker 1: dbm camouflage, a cheap black scheme mask, Balaclava and a

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Speaker 1: berry like sometimes you can pick two of those things,

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Speaker 1: but it's definitely like a vibe from that time period. HMM,

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Speaker 1: I wonder. I wonder why none of these groups worked.

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Speaker 1: It must have nothing to do with the fashion, to

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Speaker 1: be fair, the Zapatista's big scheme mask. Maybe it's the bubble.

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Speaker 1: Maybe the bubble is what sets then yeah, it's it's

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Speaker 1: it's the fact that yet you don't wear the Barret

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Speaker 1: on the ski mask necessities because they just wear the mask. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: I think we're we're united and I believe that the

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Speaker 1: Zapatis does look cool and in many ways are cool.

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Speaker 1: In fact, we're not talking about them today. We're talking

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Speaker 1: about so it's an acronym right. Um, it's an acronym

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Speaker 1: INSCARA or Basque. I don't I don't speak Basque. It's

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Speaker 1: a very hard language for me to learn. At least

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to say it's a hard language to learn,

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Speaker 1: cause I think that depends on who you are, but

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Speaker 1: it is one that I have historically struggled with understanding.

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Speaker 1: It does have a generous smattering of XS. So you know,

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Speaker 1: if you're seeing it out there, good luck to you.

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Speaker 1: I will try and pronounce things as respectfully as I can.

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Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time in the Basque country

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Speaker 1: by graceeing. I really, really love Basque people. They're very nice.

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Speaker 1: I enjoy their food and their CIDER and their countryside.

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Speaker 1: But today we're talking about this group ESCAR. It stands

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Speaker 1: for you, Scadi, to Askatasuna, which means, like Basque, homeland

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Speaker 1: and Liberty, which they were going to call it Ata,

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Speaker 1: but in and back down dialects. That means duck so

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Speaker 1: they moved away from that. That would have been so

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Speaker 1: much funnier. Would write you've been ducked, but they didn't

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Speaker 1: do that. They right from the get go they were

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Speaker 1: about like like this dual process right of politics and

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Speaker 1: political violence. Their slogan means keep up on both sides

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Speaker 1: and their logo is like a snake wrapped around the acts.

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Speaker 1: The snake is politics and the act is acts is,

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Speaker 1: I guess, political violence, terrorism, whatever you want to call it.

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Speaker 1: And over the years of action they killed eight people,

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Speaker 1: so that they were pretty serious terrorist group right. Like,

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Speaker 1: I can't I don't know how many people the IRA

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Speaker 1: a killed, but I'm thinking of groups in there. I

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Speaker 1: don't think it would be that many killed. Like I

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Speaker 1: think they killed like over a thousand. Okay, well, I

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Speaker 1: mean I said like the entire troubles killed like thirty.

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Speaker 1: So it's like a not significant fraction of that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean the British government did a decent amount of

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Speaker 1: that and definitely yeah, but like it's a not in

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Speaker 1: significant fraction of the total number of people who died

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Speaker 1: in the troubles. So they're not like nothing, know, but

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Speaker 1: like it's only up there. And Look, this is much

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Speaker 1: of a similar thing as we're going to see right,

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Speaker 1: where the Spanish state killed a lot of people too,

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Speaker 1: and sort of armed groups acting in sort of coalition

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Speaker 1: with the Spanish state, it's the safest way to say that,

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Speaker 1: but certainly with the complicity of the Spanish state, played

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Speaker 1: a large part in this, this dirty war that ETA

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Speaker 1: conducted with the Spanish state. Right. And to understand them

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Speaker 1: you have to understand a little bit about Basque nationalism,

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Speaker 1: early Basque nationalism. We we can like find the guy

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Speaker 1: who really constructs the idea of a Basque nation, right,

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Speaker 1: and Sabina is the guy. He takes what is like

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Speaker 1: a language. It's a very old language, right, predates Latin

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Speaker 1: and places where that language is spoken, and takes it

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Speaker 1: from like these are the areas where this language is

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Speaker 1: spoken to like this is our nation, and all nations

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Speaker 1: are created, right, like nations don't come from the primordial soup,

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Speaker 1: like we don't evolve into one nation or another. An abrogation. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they they're constructed by like entrepreneurs identity for which war

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Speaker 1: leads to some kind of false consciousness, one might say,

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Speaker 1: to maybe distract people from other things, but that's the

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Speaker 1: right Zapatistas watches. That's the yeah, yeah, we're coming for

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Speaker 1: you with a work mob. We're going to cancel you.

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Speaker 1: Nations begin to exist when religion loses a claim on

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Speaker 1: universal truth. Right. This is the Benedict Anderson speed run.

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Speaker 1: We don't need to go into the history of nationalism.

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Speaker 1: Particularly it's important people to know where the Basque land is.

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Speaker 1: So the Basque land is in the northwest of Spain

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Speaker 1: and the southwest of France. Right. It's these provinces where, historically,

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Speaker 1: their mountainous provinces, people there were often shepherds. You'll often

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Speaker 1: find Basque people in the United States like growing wine

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Speaker 1: or doing sheep herding, and that's their sort of historical

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Speaker 1: images themselves, and they speak this Basque language. Right. So

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Speaker 1: ETA come onto the scene as a Basque Nash to

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Speaker 1: list Leftist Group. Like they sort of have some elements

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Speaker 1: of Marxism, but they're obviously like nationalist. They they center.

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Speaker 1: They don't center Catholicism, which is what previous Basque nationalisms

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Speaker 1: have done. Right. Previous Basque nationalisms have been elite constructs

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Speaker 1: that centered language, poetry and the Catholic identity. Don't do

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Speaker 1: that they have this that's where they're slightly better. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: right there. They're better than like the carlists, who are

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Speaker 1: like things went wrong when Spain moved away from this

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Speaker 1: line of royal secession and we need to go back

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Speaker 1: to that, and like extreme religious totalitarianism and a monarchy.

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Speaker 1: Like they're better than that. I feel pretty comfortable saying that.

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Speaker 1: And they've done some cool stuff that they used to

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Speaker 1: kidnap bosses who refused to negotiate with striking workers, which, like,

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Speaker 1: I know, watch out rail rail company owners. But they

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Speaker 1: they definitely have like a leftist lead, right. They have

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Speaker 1: this sort of Pan Third World this idea, this pan

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Speaker 1: sort of colonized people idea. They begin assassinating people when

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Speaker 1: they take revenge for this guy who's called chabby. You

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Speaker 1: can look at that name if you want to see

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Speaker 1: some ex is in her name. But they they kill

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Speaker 1: the local chief of police. Right. What happened is EST

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Speaker 1: BARRIETTA and this was a guy, were killed by a policeman.

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Speaker 1: The police stop them at a roadblock, they run away

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Speaker 1: the police, the police shoot them. In response, they kidnapped

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Speaker 1: the local chief of police, who has probably been torturing people.

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Speaker 1: Right like that, you have to understand that all this

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Speaker 1: is happening in the context of a Spanish state which

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Speaker 1: is extremely violent and repressive. And they kill this guy, right,

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Speaker 1: and with this Franco right? Yes, no, but they begin

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Speaker 1: under Franco, right. So they and their support probably peaks

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Speaker 1: under Franco, right, like they what what we're going to

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Speaker 1: see is actually they are somewhat integral too not bringing

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Speaker 1: down the Franco regime, and in a sense, Spain never

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Speaker 1: does bring down the Franco regime, right. I want to

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Speaker 1: get into that a little bit. But in destabilizing the

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Speaker 1: Franco regime, and they certainly there was more support for

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Speaker 1: this kind of political violence when the state is so

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Speaker 1: obviously like undemocratic, unjust and incredibly violent towards people, right.

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Speaker 1: So they when they're killing members as a guard Seville,

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Speaker 1: these are people who are torturing prisoners. Right. ETA prisoners

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Speaker 1: pretty often, when they're captured, turn up tortured in court,

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Speaker 1: like very obviously that they have been victims of beatings

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Speaker 1: and physical violence, right, and a lot of things you'll see.

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Speaker 1: They also kidnaped this guy forgetting it. He's one of

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Speaker 1: the founders of vox and they kept him in a

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Speaker 1: seller for months and months and months and months. They

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Speaker 1: look I don't I don't like vox, but they also

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Speaker 1: don't like locking people and sellers. Two things can be

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Speaker 1: dead and vox is a right wing, populist average party,

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Speaker 1: if people aren't familiar. They also did a lot of extortion.

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Speaker 1: They also did a lot of extorting local businesses, right.

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Speaker 1: They called it the revolutionary tax. So they got into

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Speaker 1: some sort of more classic kind of organized crime stuff there.

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Speaker 1: And but the assassination we want to talk about today

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Speaker 1: is so the way they do this is they rent

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Speaker 1: this flat right there. That's an apartment for American listeners,

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Speaker 1: and they rent this flat and claimed to be students,

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Speaker 1: like sculpting students, right, like they were art students, were

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Speaker 1: into sculpture. That's that's why we're covered in dust every

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Speaker 1: day and we we wear these overrules. And for five

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Speaker 1: months they spend every day digging a tunnel underneath the

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Speaker 1: road by their flat, right, and in that tunnel they

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Speaker 1: packs of explosive and what they're doing there is they're

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Speaker 1: waiting for this guy, Luis Carrero Blanco, to come in

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Speaker 1: his car, which he travels in every day, right, and

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Speaker 1: they're gonna explode that explosive and they're going to kill him.

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Speaker 1: The reason they want to kill him is because they

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Speaker 1: say that he is the the best example of pure fascism. Right.

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Speaker 1: He's a former admiral, he's Spain's sort of prime minister.

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Speaker 1: He's Franco's chosen successor, right, so he's going to take

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Speaker 1: over from Franco, and so by killing him they're able

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Speaker 1: to destabilize the whole Franco regimer. Franco cries in public

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Speaker 1: when he finds out Colonel Blanco is dead. And so,

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Speaker 1: spoiler alert, career Blanco is extremely dead. The way they

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Speaker 1: did this is they dressed up as electricians, which is

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Speaker 1: also a lot of dressing up in this which is

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Speaker 1: kind of fine, and they painted a little line on

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Speaker 1: a wall to be like, okay, when the car gets

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Speaker 1: to here, we explode it. So the car gets to there,

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Speaker 1: they explode it. They launched this car over a church

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Speaker 1: and it lands on the second floor terraces on the

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Speaker 1: other side. Sometimes this is called like the Basques. His

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Speaker 1: program or Luis Carrero Blanco is referred to as Spain's

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Speaker 1: first astronaut. Yeah, you can find a picture of it.

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Speaker 1: Is His hysterical. The court, like it's just it just goes. So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's periodically in Spain like someone will be prosecuted

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Speaker 1: for making this joke. This Spain's first astronaut joke. And

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Speaker 1: so it happened someone pretty recently and she had really

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Speaker 1: made it a thing of making jokes. Actually, I think

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Speaker 1: his I think it's his grandchildren have noted that. It's

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Speaker 1: it's a problematic restriction of free speech that the people

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Speaker 1: keep getting prosecuted for this, and the court recently found

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Speaker 1: that they weren't mocking his family or his memory, but

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Speaker 1: they were just pointing the objectively funny way in which

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Speaker 1: he died. You know, great for the court to agree

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Speaker 1: that it was objectively funny that a terrible fucking person

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Speaker 1: died by being blown literally sky high and his driver

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Speaker 1: and his bodyguard were also killed. Shouldn't be a bodyguard

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Speaker 1: for a piece of ship. But they, the guys had

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Speaker 1: disguised themselves of Electricans. After the bomb went off, they

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Speaker 1: ran around shouting, Oh no, we've hit a gas pipe,

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Speaker 1: like there's been a gas explosion. Every everybody clear out.

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Speaker 1: was so pretty pretty entertaining stuff, acting as their side passion,

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Speaker 1: I guess, and and like the reason they did if

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Speaker 1: they did a pressor not longer afterwards, wearing their outfits,

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Speaker 1: which some of you may find offensive, and they they

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Speaker 1: cited like his irreplaceable place in the hierarchy right and

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Speaker 1: him being this. They called him a pure francoist. And, oddly,

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Speaker 1: like etta, were not. At this point, they were less

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Speaker 1: unpopular than they became later, because they weren't doing quite

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Speaker 1: as much extortion and they hadn't been engaging in quite

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Speaker 1: as many murders of journalists. Right and and you used

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Speaker 1: to see this. I'll get to that lay. Actually, they

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Speaker 1: got grudging praise from almost everyone for doing this right

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Speaker 1: and because it really does destabilize and kind of kick

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Speaker 1: their legs out from under the Franco regime and it

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Speaker 1: makes Franco cry, which I think is a laudable goal,

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Speaker 1: like it's good to make Franco cry. Franco cry more

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Speaker 1: so they well, it kind of it, kind of, it

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Speaker 1: kind of astomizes the Franco a state right between people

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Speaker 1: who are like this bunker tendency, who want to go

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Speaker 1: hardcore and crack down, and those who are like, we

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Speaker 1: don't have the ability to crack down, like we'll lose

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Speaker 1: all popular support if we do that and it really

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Speaker 1: sort of vaporizes the consensus for what to do after

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Speaker 1: Franco dies, which he does a few years later. I

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Speaker 1: want to point out that people will, you'll read these

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Speaker 1: articles on like the popular news websites or like you know,

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Speaker 1: like hot take websites, where they're like, Oh, this carbon

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Speaker 1: launched Spain into democracy. I don't do that, I think.

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Speaker 1: First of all, the major error with that is the

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Speaker 1: idea that Spain, quote vote, transition to democracy. When you

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Speaker 1: have a pacted transition where the people who did the

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Speaker 1: war crimes in the previous regime specifically not prosecuted an

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Speaker 1: exempt from prosecution. That's not what democracy looks like. I

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Speaker 1: think the most accurate way of just scriving West Spain

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Speaker 1: is is a post dictator like a post dictatorship, and

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Speaker 1: Spain is still there. Now that we see that with

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Speaker 1: these prosecutions for mocking him, right, with the fact that

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Speaker 1: there are people in Spain who are still in prison

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Speaker 1: from mocking the crown, like that's not what democracies do.

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Speaker 1: Good thing. That could never happen in Britain. Yeah, yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: you won't find you won't find me defending that either,

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Speaker 1: but we don't we don't make a big industry of

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Speaker 1: talking about Britain's transition to democracy. Maybe don't talk about

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Speaker 1: transitions at all, given the powerful TURF discourse in Britain.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I think it's problematic that that folks talk

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Speaker 1: about this like yeah, it Spain his fixed. Like Spain

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Speaker 1: has some dark it that it needs to process. Like

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Speaker 1: it was not until the middle of the last decade

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Speaker 1: that we started exhuming the graves from the civil war,

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Speaker 1: and that's still highly contentious. Right, you still have a

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Speaker 1: political party that doesn't want to do that. Spain is

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Speaker 1: still processing the fact that the Catholic Church took babies

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Speaker 1: away from people who had considered to be leftist and

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Speaker 1: gave them to people who it considered to be more

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Speaker 1: appropriate to raise them. It's called Ninobos if you want

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Speaker 1: to look it up. Yes, Spain not transitioning to to democracy,

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Speaker 1: and I want to make that very clear. Some of

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Speaker 1: the other ship that etta does is really this is

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Speaker 1: where they start to lose any any claim to being

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Speaker 1: like a liberation movement, right, like they bombed an epair core.

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Speaker 1: That's like bombing a target for American folks in Barcelona

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Speaker 1: and they killed twenty one people. Now I will say

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Speaker 1: this isn't this is exemplary bad policing. They called the

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Speaker 1: cops and we're like, Hey, we've put a bomb on

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Speaker 1: that eas the supermarket. You will ought to clear it out,

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Speaker 1: and the cops sore like I can't tell if that's

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Speaker 1: a real threat or not, and as a result, did

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Speaker 1: do anything and as a result the bomb went off

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Speaker 1: and then needs the supermarket in twenty one people died. Right.

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Speaker 1: They also alerted in a newspaper in Catalonia beforehand. Reporters

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Speaker 1: Without Borders still for a long time classified Spain as

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Speaker 1: a place that was hostile to journalists because of the

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Speaker 1: attacks on journalists by etta. Right, also, the state isn't

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Speaker 1: hostile to journalism, but I want to point out that

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Speaker 1: they killed journalists, they killed university professors who disagreed with them,

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Speaker 1: they killed local counselors, and it was some of these,

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Speaker 1: like these very unpopular murders which really sort of strip

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Speaker 1: support from them. And one thing that the Spanish state did,

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Speaker 1: a couple of things the Spanish state did, that really

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Speaker 1: were extremely repressive against ETA, was they would move Basque

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Speaker 1: prisoners out of the Basque Homeland and sort of hold

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Speaker 1: them thousands of miles away from their families. Work in

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Speaker 1: the Canary Islands and ship like. They're probably closer to

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Speaker 1: Africa than you are to to your your home country.

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Speaker 1: When they do that right, and you would often see

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Speaker 1: I don't know if maybe you guys have seen this.

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Speaker 1: It's a white flag. It's got an outline of the Basqutland,

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Speaker 1: it's got an Arrow and it says you area. Have

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Speaker 1: you seen that like protests now? If you if you've

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Speaker 1: been at the protests, I is that, like, you know,

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Speaker 1: in like the early two thousands in Europe, you would

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Speaker 1: see that flag a lot. It just means Basque prisoners

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Speaker 1: to the Basque Homeland. Like a lot of people got

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Speaker 1: behind that who might not have got behind other things

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Speaker 1: that ETA did right that it does seem deeply inhumane

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Speaker 1: to move these people so far away from their families.

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Speaker 1: It's sort of an extra punishment. The Spanish state also

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Speaker 1: had this thing called Gal Gal is Groupo Anti Terroristas

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Speaker 1: de Libration, so I guess like anti terrorists Liberation Group,

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Speaker 1: and these were desquads, right. These were descat dated and

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Speaker 1: invetted by the police. Etta enjoyed like a safe space

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Speaker 1: in France, I guess, or like a Freedom for prosecution.

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Speaker 1: Certainly under Franco, France was like, you know what, Franco

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Speaker 1: really sucks, so you guys, go ahead and send it

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Speaker 1: do your terrorism way. About a clavist. I'm sure the

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Speaker 1: French also objected to their beret style, but this is

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Speaker 1: this safe space. It's basically what they said. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is like a whole thing with midterrand in France

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Speaker 1: in the seventies, like France kind of became this weird

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Speaker 1: like like they basically had this they had this open policy.

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Speaker 1: Were like there was a bunch of well, there are.

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Speaker 1: There are a bunch of people in Italy who got

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Speaker 1: like falsely accused of like being the Red Brigades. What's

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Speaker 1: that guy's name? The Guy Negri a toto, who's like

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Speaker 1: a kind of famous. This theory kind of sucks by

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Speaker 1: the end, but like they arrest him for like being

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Speaker 1: a terrorist and then he gets himself elected to parliaments,

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Speaker 1: we can get parliamentary immunity, and then flees the country

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Speaker 1: to France. Yea. Yeah, this was a weird time. was

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Speaker 1: in Carlos a jackal, also in Paris for a while. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you love it. France open door policy to terrorists. This

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Speaker 1: is the only cool thing France has done since like yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're not wrong. They invented Parkour. When was that? Oh,

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Speaker 1: that was like in the resident xt okay, there you go. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so the second cool thing. You're going to hand that

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Speaker 1: to them? Yeah, they'll tend that to the entire country

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Speaker 1: of France. Yeah, maybe not actually, given their treatment of

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Speaker 1: migrant de aspirates in recent years. And sometimes their firefighters

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Speaker 1: will go out and beat the ship into the police.

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Speaker 1: That's true. Do you think we all have to give

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Speaker 1: that to them? I wanted to maybe end with this

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Speaker 1: quote from supercommand Ante Marcos. So we've talked a little

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Speaker 1: bit about so this is from a piece code. I

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Speaker 1: shipped upon this. I shipped upon the Revolutionary Vanguards of

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Speaker 1: the Earth. Yeah, it's something. It yeah, the all the

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Speaker 1: titles are like having problems translating Total Mundo, which is

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Speaker 1: like yeah, as you I couldn't find it written in

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Speaker 1: the original Spanish. Maybe that's just because I was googling

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Speaker 1: wrong and I didn't put a lot of time in it,

395
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Speaker 1: but I found so many of Zapatis to text of

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Speaker 1: preserves better in these weird English translations and I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I they're written in English. Its supposed to be possible

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Speaker 1: they're written in English the first time. I don't. I

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Speaker 1: don't think this one. I think I think these. I

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Speaker 1: think this particular one is a translation. Okay, but yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've tried to find in Spanish actually, but so I'm

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Speaker 1: just going to go with a translation. I think it's

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Speaker 1: probably from Lib calm or a similar website with like aging,

404
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:46,080
Speaker 1: red and black asthetic vibes, but I love those websites.

405
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Speaker 1: So it's had a bit. I hope you'll enjoy it.

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Speaker 1: We don't see why we should have, like the ETA

407
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Speaker 1: were kind of like reaching out in solidarity, and the

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00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,199
Speaker 1: Zapatista has probously been like now, Dude, we are not

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Speaker 1: the same. You're not just like a set society. We

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00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,640
Speaker 1: are not the same people and we don't see why

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Speaker 1: we would ask you what we should do or how

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Speaker 1: we should do it. What are you going to teach us?

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Speaker 1: To Kill? You a lists who speak badly about the struggle,

414
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,320
Speaker 1: to justify the death of children for the reason of

415
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Speaker 1: the cause. We don't need or want your support or solidarity.

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Speaker 1: We already have the support and solidarity of many people

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Speaker 1: in Mexico. And the world. Our struggle has a code

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Speaker 1: of honor inherited from our grilla ancestors, and it contains,

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Speaker 1: among other things, respective civilian lives, even though they may

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Speaker 1: occupy government positions that oppress us. We don't use crime

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Speaker 1: to get resources for ourselves. We don't rob, not even

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Speaker 1: a snack store. We don't respond to words with fire,

423
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 1: even though many hurt us or lie to us. One

424
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,920
Speaker 1: could think that to renounce these traditionally revolutionary methods is

425
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 1: renouncing the advancements of our struggle, but in the faint

426
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,199
Speaker 1: light of our history, it seems that we have advanced

427
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:55,199
Speaker 1: more than those who resort to such arguments. Like I

428
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,680
Speaker 1: deeply enjoy this critique. You can look it up. Was

429
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,159
Speaker 1: Big on killing people who a Tang gently related to

430
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,720
Speaker 1: the regime in any way, which I don't agree with.

431
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:05,919
Speaker 1: We should also add that they more or less definitively

432
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 1: stopped doing stuff in eighteen that they had a press conference,

433
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:14,119
Speaker 1: and in their press conference, actually arenaldoor Tegi, who was

434
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:17,680
Speaker 1: a former member, said that they wanted to express a

435
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:19,959
Speaker 1: sorrow for the pain and suffering other people have endured.

436
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 1: He goes on like we feel their pain and that

437
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,359
Speaker 1: sincere feeling leads us to affirm that it should never

438
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:27,720
Speaker 1: have happened. Sure, buddy, you want to say sorry because

439
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 1: you did terrorism, but I do think that, like we should.

440
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,880
Speaker 1: We're talking about assassinations. Are gonna talking about assassinations a week.

441
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 1: There are ways to do leftist political struggle that are

442
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 1: not killing random civilians and their friends and family members

443
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:45,879
Speaker 1: and bombing supermarkets, and those are the better ways. But

444
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:50,880
Speaker 1: making Franco cries good sending Franco's successor into near Earth

445
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 1: orbit is pretty funny. So we we enjoyed that one

446
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 1: at least. If not, I think it is worth pointing out,

447
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 1: like we weighed this prettyvious by by that line. But

448
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 1: it does not get a free space, a free bask homeland.

449
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 1: The Zappatistas have actually taken and still controlled territory, a

450
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 1: thing that none of these like weird thrilla groups ever

451
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 1: pulled off. So you know, yeah, they don't even get

452
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 1: majority support really at any point. Like occasionally there will

453
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 1: be people who are like yeah, you know what, like

454
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:25,399
Speaker 1: I agree with some of what they say, but the

455
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 1: tactics are deeply flawed. You know, these keeping people, like

456
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 1: torturing people, that kind of thing in the context of

457
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 1: the dirty war with the state is important, but, yeah,

458
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:37,879
Speaker 1: they don't succeed right and I don't think you do

459
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:41,200
Speaker 1: succeed by by extorting the people you're claiming to liberate.

460
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 1: That generally doesn't work well. So up the Zappatistas, I guess. Yeah,

461
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:51,880
Speaker 1: that seems like a good place to end. Yep, cool, yeah,

462
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 1: this is this has ma could happen here. Join US

463
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 1: tomorrow from more assassinations, and also the day after that,

464
00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 1: the day after that, the end, the day after that. Yep,

465
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 1: I'm wait, hello, I'm the ghost of the Queen, and

466
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:18,640
Speaker 1: this is assassination week, and whose I actually was assassinated?

467
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 1: It was the I R A. Hi. Welcome, welcome to

468
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 1: assassination week, where we talk about all of the normal things.

469
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 1: That's what we do. We talk about all the stuff

470
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 1: that's totally normal and chill. We were just we were

471
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 1: just debating why we keep having to talk about Nazi furies,

472
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 1: differences between catboys and cat girls as they relate to Nazism, Um,

473
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,360
Speaker 1: and we're not going to get less stupid for today's

474
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 1: assassination Um. So let's let's talk about Argentina. One of

475
00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:00,360
Speaker 1: one are the ones that happened pretty shortly after we

476
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 1: we planned on doing assassination week. Were like, well, there's

477
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 1: another one to add to the list. So, yeah, Christina

478
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,959
Speaker 1: Fernandez de Kirchner has been kind of one of the

479
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:17,800
Speaker 1: most prominent politicians in Argentina for almost two decades now. Um,

480
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:20,680
Speaker 1: she was elected after she was elected president after her

481
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 1: husband served as a term and then declined to to

482
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 1: run for a second. But she was liked in two

483
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,360
Speaker 1: US and seven. After an eight year run as president,

484
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:33,359
Speaker 1: she's now the country's vice president. She was expected to

485
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 1: make a bid to return to the top job next year.

486
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 1: That's kind of up in the air. Um, she's kind

487
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 1: of left dish. She she's kind of the populist, like leftist,

488
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 1: kind of talk about perronism and like the weird ship

489
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 1: that's going on here. Please talk about maybe, maybe do

490
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 1: it in the in the music of Andrew Lloyd Webber.

491
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 1: Oh God, no, okay, so there once was a man

492
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 1: the parode, and he so he had been like he

493
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 1: there's a whole thing. He gets like coude, he's like

494
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 1: he like flees the country and while he's not, and

495
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 1: you know this is a teatorship, and like, while he's

496
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 1: not in Argentina. There's like this whole like like if

497
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 1: they're a very classical populace movement, to the point where,

498
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 1: like a lot of the theorizing about what populism is

499
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 1: is theorizing about perronism. And what you get is like

500
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 1: two completely different like political factions, like casting all of

501
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 1: their sort of aspirations onto the like, like like onto

502
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 1: the figure of like perrone, who's like in exile, and

503
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:40,719
Speaker 1: so you can, you can like, you know, you can,

504
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 1: you can say that, like Perrone has whatever. Two perone

505
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 1: supports us, like perome will be the guy, you'll save us,

506
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 1: and like so you get, like you get this really

507
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 1: weird thing where they were like they were like there

508
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: are Peronas who are like fascists, there are Peronis, who

509
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 1: are like communists. So you get the split that happens.

510
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 1: You have these left Pronois of these right Peronius, like

511
00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 1: like when perrone comes back to the country, like the

512
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 1: right Peronas start ordering the left wing Parnais. It's this

513
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 1: whole fucking thing, and it's this, you know, and uh,

514
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 1: this this this sort of like political formation like persists

515
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 1: to an over military tatorship. It persists like through sort

516
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 1: of like the trend, quote unquote transition to democracy, and

517
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 1: like basically everyone who has ran Argentina since like the

518
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 1: quote unquote transition to democracy has been a paronnais of

519
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 1: some kind. Um Chrishnai is, the Krishner is from the

520
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 1: left wing, sort of the newly sort of like revitalized left,

521
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 1: like paroonism that comes around like the early two thousands.

522
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 1: I mean she she's around. She's around actually in the

523
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 1: nineties too, but in in early two thousand's it's sort

524
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 1: of like, okay, so in two thousand one there's this

525
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 1: massive series of protests and uprisings in in Argentina that,

526
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 1: like I I would argue is like the last of

527
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 1: like the Great Twentieth Century, sort of like working class revolutions,

528
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 1: like people started occupying like people their factories, like did

529
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 1: they go through like five prime ministers in like a month?

530
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 1: Like they come very, very, very close to bringing down

531
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 1: the government. And the thing that, the thing that sort

532
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 1: of stabilized situation is a the and this is this

533
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 1: is a serison protest against like I am a posterity right,

534
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 1: which would be just like destroying the country. And the

535
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 1: way this sort of gets stabilized is that Um you

536
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 1: get a new you know, you, you, you, you get

537
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 1: a new sort of like revitalized, like left peroneous populist thing.

538
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 1: And this, the sort of populist deal is is twofold.

539
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 1: It's like one, okay, we're gonna have a bunch of patrons,

540
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 1: networks and we're gonna run like everything from like sort

541
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,239
Speaker 1: of like job networks kind of like down, like right

542
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 1: right down to like hey, we will like give a

543
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 1: dear neighborhood as long as you stay, as long as

544
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 1: you sort of supported. And the second thing is, like

545
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 1: they make that like the ruling class like cuts this

546
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: sort and this is this is particularly like Fernandando Christian,

547
00:31:53,680 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 1: like her husband's like cuts. This deal basically, sorry, Nestor Christner, cuts,

548
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 1: just deal with with the working class, which is like okay,

549
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 1: if you guys don't, if you guys stop trying to

550
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 1: overthrow us, like we will give you a bunch of

551
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 1: welfare programs, we will like do a bunch of stuff

552
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 1: to like promoted the sort of like national economy. And

553
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 1: so it's it's this, it's this whole it's it's looks

554
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 1: like a left populism, but it's it's it's built on

555
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,719
Speaker 1: sort of like like this very explicit like we are

556
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 1: going to buy off the working class. We can maintain capitalism,

557
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 1: but the capitalism is gonna be slightly nicer. Yeah, and

558
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 1: there's a few reactions that, including the reaction from the right,

559
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 1: which is very much like these wealth help these all

560
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 1: of these welfare programs are making people lazy and unwilling

561
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 1: to do actual work, which is kind of worth some

562
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 1: of our assassin, or attempted assassin, gets some of his

563
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 1: ideology from Um. But yeah, so a week before this

564
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 1: assassination attemptum Argentine and prosecutors announced that they're seeking a

565
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 1: twelve year person sentence for Mrs Kirchner over accusations that

566
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 1: she directed public roadway funds to a company owned by

567
00:32:56,360 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 1: a friend of hers, accusations which she denies. I don't

568
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 1: I have no bid in this fight Um, but I

569
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 1: mean the thing I would note is, like, like almost everyone,

570
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 1: so she she like well, particularly this Christian, but she

571
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 1: was also sort of like considered like the soft wing

572
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 1: of the pink tides, sort of like social democratic government

573
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 1: to CON parwer this period. And like all of these

574
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 1: people are kind of corrupt, but they're not like more

575
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 1: corrupt than any other like politician in this region. But like,

576
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 1: like every single one of these people eventually, like there's

577
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 1: a whole movement to put them in prison because of

578
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 1: corruption or something, and it's like, I mean, I don't know,

579
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 1: like every like they're politicians, like what do you expect?

580
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 1: Like the political rhetoric against Mrs Kirchner had intensified in

581
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 1: recent weeks amid the final stages of her corruption trial.

582
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 1: And while she is probably the country's most prominent politician,

583
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 1: even serving as vice president, seen as more powerful than

584
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 1: then the president, she's also a very polarizing figure. You know,

585
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 1: her face is plastered on posts all around like working

586
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 1: class neighborhoods Um, but Argentina's right has kind of made

587
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 1: her out to be their boogieman. She's kind of their

588
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 1: she's kind of like their top target. Um. Last week

589
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 1: in one opposition lawmaker commenting on her case said that

590
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 1: Argentina shouldn't bring back the death penalty um just for

591
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 1: her case, just because she's like a woman we don't like,

592
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 1: so we should kill her. As I got friends at

593
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:30,879
Speaker 1: the Written House Cultural Center. Yeah, would you call her

594
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 1: a Femi Bolshy uh because they so. Yeah, but since

595
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:42,279
Speaker 1: the proposition of the twelve year sentence, hundreds of her

596
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 1: supporters have been rallying, or were rallying outside of her

597
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:49,320
Speaker 1: house every night, Um, you know, calling her a victim

598
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 1: of political persecution and doing these big, big rallies in support.

599
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:57,359
Speaker 1: And it was at such a rally on Thursday September one,

600
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:01,319
Speaker 1: just after nine PM, when Mrs Richner was returning home

601
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 1: from presiding over a session at the Senate, accompanied by

602
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:08,359
Speaker 1: her security detail. She was greeting the massive supporters, letting

603
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:11,319
Speaker 1: the streets and signing copies of her book, and then

604
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 1: a man rushed up through the crowd, aimed a semi

605
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 1: automatic pistol interest away from her face and pulled the trigger,

606
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 1: but the gun didn't go off. There's lots of footage

607
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 1: of this incident. There was a lot of cavas rolling.

608
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:27,880
Speaker 1: It's kind of wild because she sticks the gun like

609
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 1: right up in her face. It's just like really, really

610
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 1: like this. This is this is, this is like something

611
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 1: out of like fucking like like late Russia. It's it's

612
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 1: very slapstick, it's very comical. Yeah, the Franch Ferdinand level

613
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 1: of well, speaking speaking of President, President Um Fernandez said

614
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:55,320
Speaker 1: in an address to the nation later. That quote, Christina

615
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:59,360
Speaker 1: still alive because, for reasons that have not been confirmed technically,

616
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 1: the UPEN, which was loaded with five bullets, did not fire.

617
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 1: I can confirm technically that it is a piece of shit.

618
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 1: You can find it was. It was a thirty. It

619
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,360
Speaker 1: was a thirty two, caliber three, wasn't it? It's a

620
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 1: burst of thunder, isn't it? Oh, maybe I'm wrong. What

621
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 1: wasn't it was was, isn't it? Like a specific gun?

622
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:24,839
Speaker 1: That's like absolutely, like they're kind of funny. They're these

623
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 1: like the bursts, so that I think they made in Argentina.

624
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 1: They might be made in Brazil, I think they made Argentina.

625
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 1: They make knockoffs of other gun designs, more or less.

626
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 1: So it's in the style of a PPK, which has

627
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 1: good precedent for killing bad people. That's what hit the

628
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 1: brained himself with. But this, this is a knockoff. This

629
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 1: is a cheap one. It's one of the guns. It's

630
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:52,359
Speaker 1: approved for safe sail in California because it doesn't get bang,

631
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 1: at least a version of this. I don't think the

632
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:57,400
Speaker 1: one that that this person used is actually a thunder,

633
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 1: but yeah, it's just it's like I don't know. It's

634
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:03,319
Speaker 1: it's the it's like when you go and buy cheap

635
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:05,440
Speaker 1: knockoff of anything. You know, like it doesn't work. This

636
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 1: want to paste be missing one of the grip screws actually,

637
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 1: but yeah, it's very rusty. This person didn't think this

638
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:14,359
Speaker 1: three very well. I guess it's what we'll talk we'll

639
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 1: talk a bit more about what was going on with

640
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 1: a gun in a sack. You know what, I won't

641
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 1: failed to matter. The vice president of the country. These

642
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:27,400
Speaker 1: these products and series products before the podcast. Yeah, thank you.

643
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 1: That's what it's what everyone says about butter. Help will

644
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:36,360
Speaker 1: will not help. You killed the vice president. Okay, so

645
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 1: plug for ammonium nitrate. Federal Police arrested Fernando on Andre's

646
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 1: Sabag Montel, a thirty five year old Brazilian man who

647
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:49,799
Speaker 1: has been living in Argentina for about twenty years. They

648
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 1: recover the gun at the scene and then the next

649
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 1: day they searched his apartment. He had hit hit at

650
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:00,200
Speaker 1: a studio apartment in like a working class sub verb

651
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 1: of Oh boy, what's Oh boy, Um banarosh boy. I

652
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:09,719
Speaker 1: want to send this one to the chat let. Someone

653
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 1: else said to Spanish and sort of speaking. It's a boot.

654
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:19,799
Speaker 1: There we go. I sent it to the regular cool

655
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:27,399
Speaker 1: scent O. No, that was I can't I can't read that.

656
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 1: I have no idea. Then it's a capital. I don't know,

657
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 1: I can't read it. I only I never say words,

658
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 1: I only read it. Yeah, yeahs Buenos Buenos. I'm learning

659
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 1: how to read ancient Greek for magic and that's way

660
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:52,319
Speaker 1: easier than this. I was quibbled back. Are you going

661
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:54,239
Speaker 1: to be like a Hebrew understander on twitter? Are you're

662
00:38:54,239 --> 00:39:00,799
Speaker 1: gonna be like it means legal immigrants? When he says that, guys, no, only, only,

663
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:04,759
Speaker 1: only for ancient Greek, only only for Greeks to use,

664
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 1: to use in spells. And I forget that people who

665
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:10,239
Speaker 1: aren't Americans don't pick up the sort of like smattering

666
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:13,440
Speaker 1: of terrible Spanish that like everyone in the US can

667
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 1: kind of do. Yeah, no, I I grew up as

668
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 1: a kind in Saskatchewan. No one's going to speak Spanish.

669
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 1: They're just food nowns. You can you can just do

670
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 1: like and but anyway. So they searched his studio apartment

671
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 1: in apparently this big town point what, Buenos Aires? This

672
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 1: is pepmately, but it's fine. But Anyway, they searched his apartment.

673
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 1: They found just a hundred bullets just around, just like

674
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 1: in various places, or, like they said, they just found

675
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 1: a hundred bullets like like around his studio apartment. So

676
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:04,399
Speaker 1: that's that's that's the statement. It's amazing people haven't voiced

677
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,759
Speaker 1: a video and highly recommend looking it up. So Mr

678
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:13,400
Speaker 1: Montell is registered with tax authorities as an uber driver, Um,

679
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:18,399
Speaker 1: and he's not. Pretty soon people figured out that he's

680
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:21,919
Speaker 1: not just a regular dude. Um, there was, there's, there

681
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 1: was a few signs, most most notably the sun and

682
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 1: Red Tattoo on his elbow. That'll do it. So Which? Yeah,

683
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:36,399
Speaker 1: so battalion logo, right, James, shut the funk up. Shut

684
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:41,920
Speaker 1: the funk up, James. So, yes, a wave of people

685
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 1: who think they're smart but are actually not, saw the

686
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:48,879
Speaker 1: sun and red and thought that he was doing this

687
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:53,319
Speaker 1: in solidarity with the ASA. Battalion. Um, isn't he like

688
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:57,040
Speaker 1: in a Duke and his group? I'll get to it.

689
00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 1: Not Quite, Um, but no, it's not as off battalion

690
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:02,960
Speaker 1: because the son and read does not come from the

691
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:05,880
Speaker 1: as off battalion, Um, as most people listening to this

692
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:09,440
Speaker 1: show should probably know. Already. His social media accounts got

693
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:11,479
Speaker 1: taken down pretty quick, but we do have a few

694
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:14,239
Speaker 1: archives which I'll be working off of to kind of

695
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:19,280
Speaker 1: paint the rest of this weird guy's picture. Um, he

696
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 1: is steeped in a whole bunch of ECLECTIC and esoteric things.

697
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:26,960
Speaker 1: He has various esoteric symbols tattooed across his body. He

698
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 1: follows a lot of extremely interesting facebook pages. Um, he is.

699
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:36,440
Speaker 1: He is, you know, is interested in stuff from far

700
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:43,239
Speaker 1: right groups, conspiracy theories, mysticism, freemasonry, Um, quote unquote, alchemy

701
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 1: and the Cabala or again, quote unquote, the Cabala Um,

702
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:53,279
Speaker 1: across many, many kind of political, esoteric, fascist interests. It's

703
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:58,879
Speaker 1: kind of it's not very surprising. By the way, I

704
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:02,320
Speaker 1: just found out there's a whole page by that caliberisk.

705
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:03,759
Speaker 1: You're a guy and you were right and I was wrong.

706
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:07,759
Speaker 1: It's a thirty two a CP bastel. Thank you, thank you,

707
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 1: thank you. It wasn't thirty two a CP. Huh Wow. Yeah, yeah,

708
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:15,120
Speaker 1: maybe if you spent less time making fun of my Spanish,

709
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 1: we can learn something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't think

710
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 1: in terms of levels of understanding. For a while he

711
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:28,720
Speaker 1: used the symbol of the tyrontal order of the Knights,

712
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:33,759
Speaker 1: which was a fringe kind of far right Argentine fascist

713
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 1: mystical group from the nineteen eighties. But he had that

714
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 1: as his facebook profile for a while. So he's like

715
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 1: into the worst type of nerd things, like, instead of

716
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 1: just playing D and D and getting it out of

717
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:47,360
Speaker 1: your system, he's like, I'm going to become a fascist

718
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 1: and a wizard. You know, if he'd had a cultural

719
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 1: center where he could play Dn d with people just

720
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 1: saying talk, talk, Talk About Dragon Ball, play D and D. Yeah,

721
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 1: do some really, really bad figure paging do and we

722
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:06,839
Speaker 1: wouldn't have had a problem here, but instead here we are.

723
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 1: So would be like looking at his facebook page right

724
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 1: you see stuff about like paganism, Vikings, death metal, not

725
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 1: very good philosophers. These types of things don't immediately indicate

726
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:19,960
Speaker 1: a connection to the far right. Like you can't just

727
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:24,399
Speaker 1: take them by themselves, but when taken all together with

728
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:26,840
Speaker 1: the much more avert political things, you can get a

729
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:29,799
Speaker 1: fuller picture of who this person actually is. Um You know,

730
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:31,480
Speaker 1: it's like when I when I'm when I walking down

731
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:33,279
Speaker 1: the street and I see someone inside like a half

732
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:36,839
Speaker 1: skull mask. That doesn't immediately mean they're Nazi, but if

733
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:39,480
Speaker 1: I see the half skull mask and then's some questionable tattoos,

734
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:42,280
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, then that that that, then you're able

735
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 1: to put that together. Um. So same thing with here, right,

736
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:48,640
Speaker 1: when someone's really into like Pagan Viking Shit, it may

737
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:51,279
Speaker 1: make me side eye until I see some things that

738
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:55,400
Speaker 1: really confirm my suspicions. I'm not gonna you know, you know,

739
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 1: talk of this person as if they are a Nazi. Uh,

740
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:02,720
Speaker 1: this guy is not. He is a big Old Nazi.

741
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:06,759
Speaker 1: A few extremism researchers in Argentina have kind of made

742
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:10,120
Speaker 1: statements about this guy and what they're they're take on

743
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:13,000
Speaker 1: it is, as someone you know who actually is in Argentina, right,

744
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:16,839
Speaker 1: I'm an extremism researcher who lives in Oregon, which, as

745
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:19,360
Speaker 1: I so, I don't really have the same cultural understanding.

746
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:22,000
Speaker 1: You have a good grasp on the language, which is helpful.

747
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:25,279
Speaker 1: I have a good class on the language. When they're

748
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:28,960
Speaker 1: using magic words, when they're using words from real language,

749
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:34,200
Speaker 1: is not really Um. But no, they, they, they've they've

750
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:38,200
Speaker 1: talked about him like saying, uh, they're not. This dude is, quote,

751
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:40,840
Speaker 1: not explicitly connected to an organization, but they relate to

752
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:43,720
Speaker 1: the fascist ideology and compared him to kind of being

753
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:47,879
Speaker 1: the the types of, quote unquote, like Lone Wolf attackers

754
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:51,720
Speaker 1: that are not connected to any like specific political movement

755
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 1: but almost just like an emanation of political ideas online,

756
00:44:56,680 --> 00:45:01,360
Speaker 1: like in a Christ church buffalo in El Paso. Those

757
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 1: were the places that that he was kind of compared to,

758
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:06,759
Speaker 1: is like people who aren't like inside a group but

759
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:09,480
Speaker 1: are willing to go out and take politics into the

760
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 1: real world. But yeah, they compared his profile to other

761
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:17,400
Speaker 1: other types of like, you know, like load, quote Unquote

762
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:19,120
Speaker 1: Load Wolf, which is not a good term, but like

763
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:21,480
Speaker 1: what that means is like as someone who's like isolated,

764
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:24,360
Speaker 1: doing a mass shooting or a terrorist attack or an

765
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:28,759
Speaker 1: attempted a political assassination. Montel was described, as his friends

766
00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 1: as like eccentric and insecure and dishonest, um, but not

767
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:39,359
Speaker 1: necessarily openly violent or kind of openly invested in like

768
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:42,719
Speaker 1: political parties, which isn't surprising when you get someone into

769
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 1: this like nerdy type of politics that's like, yeah, they're

770
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:48,800
Speaker 1: doing politics as it relates to being like a weird

771
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 1: nerd online. But you know, who knows his his friends

772
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:54,799
Speaker 1: made us not not seeing this side of him at all.

773
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:57,920
Speaker 1: Like who, who can? Who can say? Because he did

774
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 1: have a lot of fascist tattoos. So like like come on, guys, Um,

775
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:05,880
Speaker 1: on the he had like, like we said, son and

776
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:09,040
Speaker 1: red on his left elbow. On the back of his hands,

777
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 1: he had a he had the iron cross and he

778
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:17,839
Speaker 1: had thor's hammer, but like like the like the traditional one,

779
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:21,839
Speaker 1: not like marvel movie shit. In a funny, maybe coincidence,

780
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:26,279
Speaker 1: this guy, the assassin, was actually interviewed twice on television

781
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 1: in like months before the attack, just as an average

782
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:34,240
Speaker 1: citizen on the street, giving his opinion on politics. Um,

783
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:37,879
Speaker 1: one of them, he they were he was interviewed with

784
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:42,560
Speaker 1: his girlfriend and they were complaining about Argentina's social welfare programs,

785
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:45,360
Speaker 1: saying that they make people lazy. Um. And then in

786
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:49,319
Speaker 1: another more recent one, in another more recent interview, he

787
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:52,719
Speaker 1: was asked if he supported Argentina's new finance minister, which

788
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:56,680
Speaker 1: he responded Hell No, and then he offered his opinion

789
00:46:56,760 --> 00:47:00,920
Speaker 1: as well, saying that he doesn't support Christina either. Christina's

790
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:03,239
Speaker 1: later the person he tries to kill, which you know

791
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 1: I will say this. This is, this is not out

792
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:08,759
Speaker 1: of line for like whenever a journalist tries to pick

793
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:12,000
Speaker 1: a random person on the street, like it's like they're, they're, they're,

794
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:15,359
Speaker 1: they're always interviewing Hitler, Mussolini, like it's it's just every

795
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 1: single time, like this guy is a repretentisative sample of

796
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:22,840
Speaker 1: those people. But yeah, so he gives up his unslicited

797
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 1: opinion on Christina, who he then tries to murder on TV,

798
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 1: just a month before he tries to kill her. Um.

799
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:32,600
Speaker 1: So now back at the scene, authorities said that. So

800
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:37,920
Speaker 1: the gun, they had five bullets inside. Um, the serial

801
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:42,719
Speaker 1: number was partially, partially removed. Um, it was. It was

802
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:45,359
Speaker 1: an older it was an older gun. It was not

803
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:48,400
Speaker 1: was was not brand new. Um, they said that the

804
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:53,080
Speaker 1: gun model had not, had not been manufactured in forty years. Um,

805
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:56,839
Speaker 1: but it's, uh, the IT looks like it was made

806
00:47:56,920 --> 00:48:00,919
Speaker 1: until eight. Again, it's pretty old. Yeah, the gun could

807
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:03,000
Speaker 1: have failed to fire because it was broken or because

808
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 1: it was just improperly loaded. Um, because have you come

809
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:10,759
Speaker 1: across the Argentine media articles which were explaining how to

810
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:17,480
Speaker 1: properly cock the hammer on one? That's a real, real,

811
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:22,560
Speaker 1: really interesting take. Stuff being like next time. So good

812
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:24,840
Speaker 1: stuff was always from from our friends in the media

813
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:28,960
Speaker 1: and reportedly, uh, the gun tried to try to get

814
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:32,000
Speaker 1: fired twice. So pull pull the Trigar at least two times,

815
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:34,640
Speaker 1: and when they recovered it there was no round chambered.

816
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:40,600
Speaker 1: So he may have just not like like. He could

817
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:42,960
Speaker 1: have just not cocked it at all, and that could

818
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:46,120
Speaker 1: be why I didn't fire like. It's unclear that this

819
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:48,120
Speaker 1: whole thing is really like the like. It's it's the

820
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:51,800
Speaker 1: Verdin Virgin Kirshner assassin versus the chat abbe assassin, that

821
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:54,080
Speaker 1: the Chad aube assassin went to the time of building

822
00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:57,600
Speaker 1: his own weapon. He fired it twice, bullshots went off.

823
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:02,479
Speaker 1: Fucking Virgin, this guy zero fires it twice, doesn't doesn't

824
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:07,080
Speaker 1: build his own weapon. Zero bullets come out. Do we

825
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:09,799
Speaker 1: know if it's legal for this person to own? The

826
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:12,080
Speaker 1: guy in Argentina, it's heard they like a quiet legally

827
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:14,120
Speaker 1: and not being able to test it illegally and not

828
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:15,600
Speaker 1: being able to test it, because that would have also

829
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:20,360
Speaker 1: sort of got some attention to them. I believe it's illegal. Okay, yeah, well,

830
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:23,160
Speaker 1: either way, I should have just done the older, the

831
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:25,400
Speaker 1: old Abe method with the pipe gun and the battery,

832
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:28,279
Speaker 1: I guess. Well, do you know what isn't illegal, and

833
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:34,719
Speaker 1: that's assembling your open. No, it's uh, that's very illegal. where, uh,

834
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 1: these products and services which support this podcast very not illegal.

835
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:41,840
Speaker 1: All right, we are we, we are back. I'm going

836
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:45,480
Speaker 1: to share with you, guys, the document I'm looking at, uh,

837
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:49,439
Speaker 1: so you can, so you can have have fun looking

838
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:52,560
Speaker 1: at all of these, uh, these symbols with me. Um,

839
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:55,719
Speaker 1: scroll to where the first picture is, Um, and then

840
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:59,000
Speaker 1: we'll then we're gonna go over all of the all

841
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:01,400
Speaker 1: of the weird ship that we have. This is what

842
00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:04,560
Speaker 1: so we're looking at his facebook likes here. Yes, these

843
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:10,640
Speaker 1: are the facebook pages that he follows God. So, yeah,

844
00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:12,920
Speaker 1: this is a bit of a Red Flag. There's some

845
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:16,120
Speaker 1: yikes here. So yeah, UM, thirty five years old. He

846
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:18,560
Speaker 1: has a Chilean father and an Argentine mother. He's lived

847
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:21,680
Speaker 1: in Argentina for at least twenty years. His profiles on

848
00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:25,360
Speaker 1: facebook and Instagram we're taking down pretty soon. On his instagram,

849
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:37,319
Speaker 1: he described himself as a devout Christian. Sure, buddy here. Yes, yes, Um,

850
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:40,840
Speaker 1: he didn't comment on Brazilian politics very much. It was

851
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:44,600
Speaker 1: mostly interested in Argentina, Um, but and a lot of

852
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 1: the esoteric Nazi stuff. Um, a lot of the weird

853
00:50:48,719 --> 00:50:52,000
Speaker 1: like there's actually an interesting history of Esoteric Nazia stuff,

854
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:56,120
Speaker 1: specifically inside Argentina as well. Obviously a lot of Nazis

855
00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:58,880
Speaker 1: fled to Argentina. They've kind of kind of been a

856
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:02,680
Speaker 1: fostered ground for them. But yeah, there's there's a lot

857
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:04,840
Speaker 1: of a lot of stuff here. Um, one of the

858
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:09,200
Speaker 1: pages he follows is named Camarada Miguel S S, which

859
00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:13,240
Speaker 1: is just a picture of like Nazi soldiers in armed bands.

860
00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:18,520
Speaker 1: Your understanding this? All right, that's a hit and nothing

861
00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:23,360
Speaker 1: to me. There's there's there's a lot of stuff Biblioteca esoterica.

862
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:27,040
Speaker 1: But yeah, there's there's stuff from like Gnosticism, there's stuff

863
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:31,120
Speaker 1: on freemasonry, Um, all of like it's kind of like

864
00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:33,879
Speaker 1: a it's a little bit of a basic bit here.

865
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:38,200
Speaker 1: This is like it's not for for this type of guy.

866
00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 1: It's not surprising. Obviously he's not like a normal dude,

867
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:44,319
Speaker 1: but for someone who's into esoteric fashion stuff, you're like, okay, yeah,

868
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:46,640
Speaker 1: you hit all the things like you're I'm not surprised

869
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:50,640
Speaker 1: looking at your page. Um. So yeah, like we said,

870
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:54,160
Speaker 1: he's tattooed with Black Son Iron Cross and and a

871
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:58,200
Speaker 1: mule near Um now, obviously the iron cross the mule

872
00:51:58,239 --> 00:52:01,359
Speaker 1: near are not symbols created by not ses. Uh. You know,

873
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:05,400
Speaker 1: they were previously existing symbols. Iron Cross existed in the

874
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:08,680
Speaker 1: PRUSSIAN Army. The mill neaire is an old nordic symbol.

875
00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:13,120
Speaker 1: But both of these were UH CO opted by the

876
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:17,160
Speaker 1: Nazis Pretty Pretty Uh, pretty strongly, uh, and now have

877
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:21,799
Speaker 1: very strong associations. If you scroll down to the next page, Um,

878
00:52:23,239 --> 00:52:27,640
Speaker 1: I have all of his tattoos here. So you can

879
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:29,600
Speaker 1: see a bit of the son of red on his

880
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:33,280
Speaker 1: on his elbow, you can see some of the hammer

881
00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:37,560
Speaker 1: on his uh. I believe his right hand has the

882
00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:44,120
Speaker 1: hammer and his left hand has the has the Iron Cross. Uh. So,

883
00:52:45,160 --> 00:52:49,520
Speaker 1: I mean, what's this diamond thing on? I'm going to

884
00:52:49,640 --> 00:52:53,759
Speaker 1: get to that. So the Black Son's son and Rad.

885
00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:56,280
Speaker 1: We've talked about this on the show a lot. Um,

886
00:52:56,320 --> 00:53:00,080
Speaker 1: it exists before as of a lot of libs, a

887
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:02,800
Speaker 1: lot of liberals now think it's an asaf battalian symbol.

888
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:06,319
Speaker 1: Uh No, I mean that this you know, uh, a

889
00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:10,280
Speaker 1: lot of Nazi mass shooters have had son and red

890
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:12,200
Speaker 1: like patches and stuff for years and years and years.

891
00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 1: It's been very popular. It's also very popular among Esoteric

892
00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:18,840
Speaker 1: Fascists also very popular among like you see a lot

893
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:20,960
Speaker 1: of wagner group guys with this, like you see there's

894
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:24,600
Speaker 1: a lot of Russian soldiers who have so. But no,

895
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:28,279
Speaker 1: and it makes sense as in its popularity, as like

896
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:32,040
Speaker 1: an esoteric fascist symbol. This guy is into all of

897
00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:34,480
Speaker 1: the esoteric fascist ship, so he's of course he's going

898
00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:40,239
Speaker 1: to have a black son Um. Uh. So the that

899
00:53:40,280 --> 00:53:42,920
Speaker 1: now James mentioned another Tattoo Whi kind of looks like

900
00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:48,520
Speaker 1: a diamond, which is the drazzle immursal, which is how

901
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:52,680
Speaker 1: how that's how I'm going to pronounce it, because nobody cares. Um.

902
00:53:53,239 --> 00:53:56,759
Speaker 1: It means a great tall pillar. It's known as like

903
00:53:56,800 --> 00:54:01,399
Speaker 1: the tree bridge that would connect the to like the celestial,

904
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:06,799
Speaker 1: like greater reality. The urmnsule plays an important role in

905
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:11,319
Speaker 1: like old GERMANIC paganism. Um, it was there probably was

906
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:15,800
Speaker 1: a physical sacrificial site adorned with like big pillars. Um.

907
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:18,360
Speaker 1: But I like like a lot of the old weird

908
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:23,120
Speaker 1: German ship. It got notified. Um Heindri Khindler founded the

909
00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:26,800
Speaker 1: Society for research and teaching of ancestral heritage in nineteen

910
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:31,920
Speaker 1: which was this was in an organization with the aim

911
00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:39,640
Speaker 1: of retracing, quote, ancient Aryan artifacts that support the master race, theory. Um.

912
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:43,719
Speaker 1: And Uh, he used one of these for the original

913
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:47,280
Speaker 1: symbol of this organization, which is all about like tracing

914
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:51,160
Speaker 1: back old Germanic like pagan ship, to be like here's

915
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:54,520
Speaker 1: evidence that we're the master race and all of our

916
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:58,640
Speaker 1: he's he's like trying to manufacture anthropology which supports all

917
00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:01,799
Speaker 1: of the bad science that as we are Arians and

918
00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:03,919
Speaker 1: we are better. So he's it's in this like fake

919
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:06,319
Speaker 1: and you know, it's like the Indiana Jones stuff, like

920
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:07,960
Speaker 1: this is, this, is, this is, this is what he's

921
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:11,760
Speaker 1: trying to do. Um. But that one of the symbols

922
00:55:11,880 --> 00:55:17,640
Speaker 1: used for that was the immnstule or the Yah drazil. Uh.

923
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:22,640
Speaker 1: Possibly this symbol was also linked to Odin. It's unclear

924
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:28,640
Speaker 1: because the actual God of that represents, im Minstrel, is

925
00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:32,800
Speaker 1: hard to trace. Um. But yeah, probably a sacred object

926
00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:35,919
Speaker 1: in the form of a pillar that represents kind of

927
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:40,560
Speaker 1: the trunk of the Nordic Spiritual Cosmos that rises up

928
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:44,279
Speaker 1: into kind of the heavens. Yes, it's it's something. It's

929
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:47,600
Speaker 1: something the Nazis pilfered from like Germanic paganism turned it

930
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:51,320
Speaker 1: into Nazi ship and became this idea around the spiritual

931
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:55,000
Speaker 1: center of like German nationalism. It's like it's this this this,

932
00:55:55,120 --> 00:55:58,399
Speaker 1: this spiritual thing that represents how pure we are as

933
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:04,480
Speaker 1: German nationalists. Anyway. Uh, obviously the shooter is not German,

934
00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:09,480
Speaker 1: which is kind of so I wonder. I wonder why

935
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:11,680
Speaker 1: he has that. Huh, I wonder what he's trying to

936
00:56:11,719 --> 00:56:14,600
Speaker 1: stay there. It just likes German people. It's interesting in

937
00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:17,239
Speaker 1: the culture. But yes, he has one of these on

938
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:21,680
Speaker 1: his uh, I believe it's his left hand, um on

939
00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:23,759
Speaker 1: on on his forearm. It's a, it's IT'S A it's

940
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:27,680
Speaker 1: a pretty intricate symbol. Uh. Yeah, that's like his best

941
00:56:27,719 --> 00:56:31,439
Speaker 1: tattoo as well. Some of the other is a pretty robey. Yeah,

942
00:56:31,719 --> 00:56:36,719
Speaker 1: the the millionaire Tattoo is not very good. Um, the

943
00:56:36,719 --> 00:56:40,520
Speaker 1: the the iron cross is pretty faded. But but the

944
00:56:41,239 --> 00:56:45,080
Speaker 1: great pillar once decent um in terms of like quality. Again,

945
00:56:45,160 --> 00:56:49,120
Speaker 1: we're just we're just reviewing the esoteric fashion. Ye, yeah,

946
00:56:49,160 --> 00:56:56,000
Speaker 1: best fashion. Um, look as fascination week is also fashion week. Yeah,

947
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:59,320
Speaker 1: it's true. Would you say better or worse than the

948
00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:02,120
Speaker 1: berries and the scheme mask at this point, I like

949
00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:05,800
Speaker 1: the scheme masks. I think, I think it's slightly better.

950
00:57:08,040 --> 00:57:14,640
Speaker 1: Take this, the thing that James was asking about previously.

951
00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:20,640
Speaker 1: There's this really weird symbol that obviously looks kind of

952
00:57:21,240 --> 00:57:25,040
Speaker 1: Swastika Ish. It's it's very like. It's, it's, it's, it's

953
00:57:25,120 --> 00:57:30,920
Speaker 1: made up of like two different runes combined into one symbol. Um. This,

954
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:34,600
Speaker 1: this is, this is the kind of logo of an

955
00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:37,919
Speaker 1: Esoteric Neo Nazi sect in Argentina founded by a very

956
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:43,760
Speaker 1: famous Argentina and Neo Nazi named Nimrod de Rosario, which

957
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:47,000
Speaker 1: I do like that his name is Nim Rod. Yeah, like,

958
00:57:47,080 --> 00:57:53,160
Speaker 1: Oh God. So, yes, Um, I highlighted this, this thing.

959
00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:55,600
Speaker 1: Do you want to try to try to pronounce that one?

960
00:57:55,720 --> 00:58:03,160
Speaker 1: That one's, uh yeah, Argentina. So like. So, that is

961
00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:08,920
Speaker 1: the name of the sect. It's the symbols a combination

962
00:58:09,400 --> 00:58:15,040
Speaker 1: of the odal run and the Tyra Rune. Um, hence

963
00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:20,600
Speaker 1: the name Tyro Dal or UH tirodal. It's, it's, it's,

964
00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:24,200
Speaker 1: it's a combination of these things into this new thing. Um.

965
00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:29,040
Speaker 1: So this is like very popular for this type of

966
00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:34,280
Speaker 1: like kind of kind of esoteric Nazi writer. UH, inside,

967
00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:38,960
Speaker 1: inside Argentina. He had so that the assassin or attempted

968
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:43,520
Speaker 1: assassin had a few of these things saved. Um, it

969
00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:47,160
Speaker 1: was actually an organization like the order of nights, the

970
00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:51,800
Speaker 1: herodal nights, or how we say that. I mean not really.

971
00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:58,960
Speaker 1: It's just a facebook chival recorder. It's it's hard to say.

972
00:58:59,120 --> 00:59:02,560
Speaker 1: I mean like no, they're not, they're not out there

973
00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:07,600
Speaker 1: doing tons of ship. Um. Are they laughing? Yes, yes,

974
00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:10,320
Speaker 1: they are. I mean all as soon as would any

975
00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:12,240
Speaker 1: one of these groups called themselves like an order of

976
00:59:12,280 --> 00:59:15,240
Speaker 1: the nights. They're always larping, like, they're always they're always

977
00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:18,000
Speaker 1: doing kind of alert like whenever something like the templar

978
00:59:18,040 --> 00:59:22,640
Speaker 1: isn't ship you're like, okay, edition recently who joined like

979
00:59:22,720 --> 00:59:26,200
Speaker 1: the he's like sworn to protect Christians in the Holy Land.

980
00:59:26,200 --> 00:59:31,720
Speaker 1: It was very funny. Yeah, like come on, yeah, all right,

981
00:59:31,760 --> 00:59:33,680
Speaker 1: so he's a big yeah, he's got a lot of

982
00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:37,400
Speaker 1: Christian stuff as well, like I'm looking at the and yeah,

983
00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:39,520
Speaker 1: I mean that's that's kind of with all of like

984
00:59:39,720 --> 00:59:41,960
Speaker 1: the GNOSTICISM stuff, which it was draws on a lot

985
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:44,640
Speaker 1: of like Christian imagery or Catholic imagery, and he didn't

986
00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:48,160
Speaker 1: describe himself as a Christian on his instagram account, which

987
00:59:48,240 --> 00:59:51,240
Speaker 1: still it's like okay, but you're you're into some weirder

988
00:59:51,240 --> 00:59:53,720
Speaker 1: ship than that. But yeah, there is there, there is.

989
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:56,040
Speaker 1: There is some of a Christian basis for this style

990
00:59:56,080 --> 01:00:00,200
Speaker 1: of like esoterrorism. I feel you're okay. Well, I just

991
01:00:00,240 --> 01:00:03,760
Speaker 1: found it. I'm sorry, I just scrolled down. I didn't

992
01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:07,560
Speaker 1: expect to see that. Expect to see what is it like?

993
01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:13,720
Speaker 1: A CAM girl? Oh, yes, yes, he was. He was

994
01:00:13,800 --> 01:00:18,480
Speaker 1: retweeting a cab girl on his twitter. Yes, so I

995
01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:26,120
Speaker 1: have some other stuff here on the the Argentinian Patriot front, um,

996
01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:31,760
Speaker 1: but please, different Patriot front to them, the American one.

997
01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:34,480
Speaker 1: But that was just talking. I just wanted to talk

998
01:00:34,920 --> 01:00:41,680
Speaker 1: briefly a bit about like Argentinian like uh, Nazism or fascism, um,

999
01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:45,760
Speaker 1: much like Brazilian stuff with Basonero and the kind of

1000
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:49,440
Speaker 1: the the the fascist groups that have been active in

1001
01:00:49,480 --> 01:00:51,840
Speaker 1: both countries for a while. Both of them have historical

1002
01:00:51,920 --> 01:00:55,120
Speaker 1: roots that go back to the twenties, twentie century. Their

1003
01:00:55,200 --> 01:00:57,800
Speaker 1: Ne Nazi and Neo Fascist groups that have been active

1004
01:00:57,800 --> 01:01:00,680
Speaker 1: in Argentina for decades. We've talked. We talked a little

1005
01:01:00,680 --> 01:01:02,640
Speaker 1: bit about this in the Kyle written has cultural center

1006
01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:06,360
Speaker 1: as well. Um, as it relates to like anti communist

1007
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:12,280
Speaker 1: like stuff. Um, one of the kind of oldest groups

1008
01:01:12,600 --> 01:01:18,800
Speaker 1: of of of Argentinian fascism, uh, formed into a new

1009
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:28,280
Speaker 1: group called Patriot front, or friente Patriot Patriota. How. How

1010
01:01:28,280 --> 01:01:29,480
Speaker 1: would you? How would you say that? How would you

1011
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:33,160
Speaker 1: say that? Patrick, I was close, I was, you were

1012
01:01:33,160 --> 01:01:37,120
Speaker 1: really there. Form like it. I already thought you had it, Um.

1013
01:01:37,160 --> 01:01:41,640
Speaker 1: But yeah, so that's this new group. Patriot front, was

1014
01:01:41,680 --> 01:01:47,480
Speaker 1: formed in Um, but it's based off of a very famous, uh,

1015
01:01:47,960 --> 01:01:54,960
Speaker 1: far right leader called Aleandro Bandino. Um, just how again?

1016
01:01:55,080 --> 01:01:58,000
Speaker 1: That's how how I'm gonna do it. Uh. Should his

1017
01:01:58,120 --> 01:02:03,800
Speaker 1: name was? His name is highlighted here Italian, like, yeah,

1018
01:02:03,920 --> 01:02:07,800
Speaker 1: that's yeah, that's name. I mean, but he's, he's he's

1019
01:02:07,840 --> 01:02:11,439
Speaker 1: been active in Argentina's far right sphere for a long,

1020
01:02:11,520 --> 01:02:14,000
Speaker 1: long time, like he's he's kind of like the main

1021
01:02:14,320 --> 01:02:17,960
Speaker 1: guy who's trying to do stuff. He's six, sixty six

1022
01:02:18,040 --> 01:02:24,640
Speaker 1: years old. Um, he was born in Argentina. Um. Yeah,

1023
01:02:24,760 --> 01:02:29,920
Speaker 1: I was. Argentina has a massive Um Italian population. This

1024
01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:31,520
Speaker 1: has been like, this has been for sort of a

1025
01:02:31,560 --> 01:02:34,720
Speaker 1: long time. Like, yeah, and this sort of this cuts

1026
01:02:34,760 --> 01:02:36,600
Speaker 1: both ways politically, like a lot of those guys used

1027
01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:39,600
Speaker 1: to be anarchists, like there's a hugenicis huvement in Argentina

1028
01:02:39,640 --> 01:02:44,920
Speaker 1: for a long time. So a lot of weird fascists.

1029
01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:47,760
Speaker 1: So it is. It is. It is interesting that like

1030
01:02:47,800 --> 01:02:50,320
Speaker 1: this neo Nazi assassin again wasn't part of any of

1031
01:02:50,320 --> 01:02:53,080
Speaker 1: these groups. Wasn't really aligned with this Patriot front group,

1032
01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:55,560
Speaker 1: wasn't really aligned with any other kind of actual like

1033
01:02:55,600 --> 01:02:59,920
Speaker 1: far right political activism. Um, he was just into weird.

1034
01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:02,720
Speaker 1: He was into like dressing up as a as a

1035
01:03:02,720 --> 01:03:07,760
Speaker 1: wizard and talking about weird GNOSTICISM and Fascism online. And

1036
01:03:07,760 --> 01:03:11,680
Speaker 1: then he tried to kill the vice president. Um, did he?

1037
01:03:11,800 --> 01:03:13,560
Speaker 1: It was just like an impulse thing or it's just

1038
01:03:13,680 --> 01:03:17,960
Speaker 1: like a long planned I think he did live nearby.

1039
01:03:18,080 --> 01:03:20,480
Speaker 1: I mean, I believe it's. I mean she was in

1040
01:03:20,480 --> 01:03:23,960
Speaker 1: the capital city. So yeah, yeah, well, it's a it's

1041
01:03:24,000 --> 01:03:27,360
Speaker 1: a big place. You can walkably, you can, you can,

1042
01:03:27,480 --> 01:03:31,200
Speaker 1: you can get around if you're dedicated. People around the city.

1043
01:03:31,240 --> 01:03:34,919
Speaker 1: Of which cities? Again, I can't remember. I can't remember either.

1044
01:03:35,240 --> 01:03:40,280
Speaker 1: You know, I. I. WHO's to say? WHO's to say? So, yes,

1045
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:44,240
Speaker 1: this is this is the story of the uh not

1046
01:03:44,440 --> 01:03:47,720
Speaker 1: assassination that was attempted a few weeks ago in Argentina

1047
01:03:47,920 --> 01:03:51,560
Speaker 1: and the guy behind it, who should have just learned

1048
01:03:51,560 --> 01:03:57,439
Speaker 1: to play D and D um like, honestly, yeah, well,

1049
01:03:57,640 --> 01:03:59,880
Speaker 1: he didn't know it's probably going to spend it on

1050
01:04:00,000 --> 01:04:03,360
Speaker 1: time in jail now. Probably. I mean he he did

1051
01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:08,280
Speaker 1: not kill the vice president, but he didn't put a

1052
01:04:08,320 --> 01:04:10,560
Speaker 1: gun into her face and tried to pull the trigger

1053
01:04:10,600 --> 01:04:13,080
Speaker 1: two times in front of tons of unfortunately, that gets

1054
01:04:13,080 --> 01:04:16,640
Speaker 1: you to attempted assassination. Yeah, I think. I think that's

1055
01:04:16,640 --> 01:04:19,320
Speaker 1: a I think, even if he didn't know how to

1056
01:04:19,400 --> 01:04:24,800
Speaker 1: chamber his round properly. Yeah, once again the master race prevails. So, yeah,

1057
01:04:24,840 --> 01:04:27,840
Speaker 1: and any any other notes on on this guy or

1058
01:04:27,840 --> 01:04:30,960
Speaker 1: the stuff in Argentina? Any any comments? Comments from the

1059
01:04:31,160 --> 01:04:36,600
Speaker 1: from the gallery? Not Fascinating stuff. This again, this is,

1060
01:04:36,720 --> 01:04:39,439
Speaker 1: this is. He is so much less cool and worse

1061
01:04:39,480 --> 01:04:42,959
Speaker 1: of an assassin than the big guy. This guy sucks. Yeah,

1062
01:04:43,720 --> 01:04:47,480
Speaker 1: compared to he's, he's he's the probably the least based

1063
01:04:47,480 --> 01:04:50,520
Speaker 1: guy we're gonna be talking about. Yeah, I think right. Like,

1064
01:04:50,560 --> 01:04:55,480
Speaker 1: at least ETA was successful in sending someone into as.

1065
01:04:56,040 --> 01:05:00,360
Speaker 1: You can buy Nimrod's books on Amazon Dot Com. Yeah, album,

1066
01:05:02,040 --> 01:05:05,959
Speaker 1: some of those, you should be able to do that.

1067
01:05:06,680 --> 01:05:10,240
Speaker 1: Come on, he has a twitter account. All right, let's

1068
01:05:10,240 --> 01:05:14,880
Speaker 1: just read some of these tweets in English or Spanish. UH, Spanish,

1069
01:05:15,840 --> 01:05:19,520
Speaker 1: but I can, I can trans I can do Google translate. Um, oh,

1070
01:05:19,720 --> 01:05:24,160
Speaker 1: talking about Zionist terrorism. Um, the myth of the Holocaust.

1071
01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:31,920
Speaker 1: I mean it's again, he's, he's, he's. What do you what?

1072
01:05:32,040 --> 01:05:36,200
Speaker 1: Do you expect physical reaction to that last one? But yes,

1073
01:05:36,360 --> 01:05:39,080
Speaker 1: so this, this was the guy that had the symbol,

1074
01:05:39,360 --> 01:05:43,400
Speaker 1: that that that had the weird, the weird combination ruined symbol,

1075
01:05:43,880 --> 01:05:47,680
Speaker 1: that that the assassin liked the books of and used

1076
01:05:47,720 --> 01:05:50,520
Speaker 1: the symbology of on his facebook. I just, I just

1077
01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:57,240
Speaker 1: sent the writers of twitter account to the cool sound chat. Um.

1078
01:05:57,280 --> 01:06:01,920
Speaker 1: I feel like once once I go to nimbrod's twitter

1079
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:07,600
Speaker 1: page on the Hut to follow section, it recommends Alexander Dugan. Good.

1080
01:06:08,000 --> 01:06:11,880
Speaker 1: So that this this was the guy. I had vaguely

1081
01:06:11,880 --> 01:06:16,560
Speaker 1: read somewhere that this guy like, like, isn't he dead?

1082
01:06:16,920 --> 01:06:21,080
Speaker 1: I believe he's dead. So who's running this twitter account

1083
01:06:21,280 --> 01:06:26,960
Speaker 1: for a while? These are some some lackeys using the nineties.

1084
01:06:27,160 --> 01:06:30,520
Speaker 1: He died in seven. Okay, so this is like, yeah,

1085
01:06:30,720 --> 01:06:35,440
Speaker 1: this is like some lackey is posting honest account to

1086
01:06:35,560 --> 01:06:42,480
Speaker 1: plug his books. Um, yeah, the state. Yeah, he's retreating

1087
01:06:42,520 --> 01:06:46,960
Speaker 1: the Falange. It's funny. Look to the people he retweet.

1088
01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:48,840
Speaker 1: You go to their account and it's like this account

1089
01:06:48,880 --> 01:06:52,760
Speaker 1: is temporary unavailable because it violates twitter's media policy. Yeah,

1090
01:06:53,000 --> 01:06:57,800
Speaker 1: I wonder. I wonder why. I wonder what Nazis. Yeah,

1091
01:06:58,600 --> 01:07:02,000
Speaker 1: I do like. Um, Nim Rod's website is down, which

1092
01:07:02,040 --> 01:07:05,440
Speaker 1: is good. That is that is nice. His official website

1093
01:07:05,640 --> 01:07:10,960
Speaker 1: is offline, so that's good. Um, it sucks that his

1094
01:07:10,960 --> 01:07:13,960
Speaker 1: books are on Amazon, but you know, it's good. What

1095
01:07:14,000 --> 01:07:17,040
Speaker 1: can you do? It is, it is. It is good

1096
01:07:17,080 --> 01:07:21,760
Speaker 1: that he's dead, Mum. So He is dead, the vice

1097
01:07:21,760 --> 01:07:25,240
Speaker 1: president is not and the assassin is probably gonna be

1098
01:07:25,320 --> 01:07:35,880
Speaker 1: in jail for a long time. And that's the episode.

1099
01:07:40,080 --> 01:07:43,640
Speaker 1: This is assassination week. Oh God, my left arm, pet

1100
01:07:43,640 --> 01:07:52,640
Speaker 1: it hurts so much. Land doesn't feel so good. Ronald

1101
01:07:53,400 --> 01:08:00,000
Speaker 1: Wilson Reagan, six, six, six, six letters in any way, whatever. Um,

1102
01:08:00,040 --> 01:08:02,040
Speaker 1: I'm Robert Evans. This is it could happen here, a

1103
01:08:02,080 --> 01:08:06,120
Speaker 1: podcast about assassinating world leaders. Um, that's why it's called

1104
01:08:06,200 --> 01:08:08,760
Speaker 1: it could happen here, and today we're talking about a

1105
01:08:08,880 --> 01:08:13,560
Speaker 1: time where it did, when John Hinckley Jr shot Ronald

1106
01:08:13,560 --> 01:08:18,679
Speaker 1: Wilson Reagan, Um with me today, James Stout, Garrison Davis,

1107
01:08:19,400 --> 01:08:22,599
Speaker 1: Um and of course, of course, the ghost of Ronald Reagan,

1108
01:08:22,640 --> 01:08:26,880
Speaker 1: who was a regular contributor to our to our podcasts,

1109
01:08:27,120 --> 01:08:30,200
Speaker 1: along with the ghost of the Queen. And Yeah, now

1110
01:08:30,240 --> 01:08:34,880
Speaker 1: the ghost of the Queen has joined the team. Very excited. Um. So,

1111
01:08:34,920 --> 01:08:38,720
Speaker 1: obviously John Hinckley shot Reagan. We're gonna get into a

1112
01:08:38,760 --> 01:08:41,320
Speaker 1: lot of detail about Mr Hinckley's life. This is something

1113
01:08:41,360 --> 01:08:43,719
Speaker 1: that is joked about a lot on the Internet, including

1114
01:08:43,760 --> 01:08:47,759
Speaker 1: by me. Um. But you know, it's it's it's interesting

1115
01:08:47,800 --> 01:08:50,680
Speaker 1: because there's there's two strains of people who will like

1116
01:08:51,320 --> 01:08:52,920
Speaker 1: come out and tell you it's not cool to joke

1117
01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:56,439
Speaker 1: about John Hinckley JR shooting Ronald Reagan, and one of

1118
01:08:56,479 --> 01:08:58,439
Speaker 1: them is right. which are the people who are like, well,

1119
01:08:58,439 --> 01:09:01,320
Speaker 1: actually like it's pretty messed up store or and he

1120
01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:04,200
Speaker 1: like it's it's kind of messed up to to laugh

1121
01:09:04,240 --> 01:09:07,560
Speaker 1: about this family's tragedy, because it was a family's tragedy,

1122
01:09:07,640 --> 01:09:09,640
Speaker 1: and the other people are like no, it's fucked up

1123
01:09:09,640 --> 01:09:11,760
Speaker 1: because he had the hots for Jodie foster and what

1124
01:09:11,800 --> 01:09:14,120
Speaker 1: was actually going on there was a lot more complicated,

1125
01:09:14,439 --> 01:09:17,120
Speaker 1: um than that. So we're gonna talk about all of

1126
01:09:17,160 --> 01:09:19,360
Speaker 1: the things that happened in this shooting, which was messed

1127
01:09:19,400 --> 01:09:22,519
Speaker 1: up and which I probably shouldn't joke about on twitter, Um,

1128
01:09:22,600 --> 01:09:25,240
Speaker 1: because it's actually really bleak. Um, and in order to

1129
01:09:25,320 --> 01:09:29,080
Speaker 1: understand both why it's sad on a personal level and

1130
01:09:29,120 --> 01:09:32,479
Speaker 1: why it's a tragedy for the entire country. Um. Yeah,

1131
01:09:32,560 --> 01:09:37,040
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna start by talking about John Warnock Hinckley Jr,

1132
01:09:37,080 --> 01:09:41,440
Speaker 1: who was born on May twenty nine, nineteen and are more, Oklahoma,

1133
01:09:41,560 --> 01:09:43,320
Speaker 1: which is about two and a half hours from where

1134
01:09:43,360 --> 01:09:46,479
Speaker 1: I grew up in Oklahoma. Unlike me, John's Dad, who

1135
01:09:46,560 --> 01:09:49,679
Speaker 1: was John Warnock Hinckley senior, was the chairman and president

1136
01:09:49,720 --> 01:09:52,439
Speaker 1: of Vanderbilt Energy. So they had lots of money, a

1137
01:09:52,520 --> 01:09:57,400
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of walking around money and vanderbilt money. Yeah,

1138
01:09:57,640 --> 01:10:00,360
Speaker 1: and like most people who have good money, they don't

1139
01:10:00,360 --> 01:10:03,960
Speaker 1: stay in Oklahoma. Um, they have any owls and the

1140
01:10:04,160 --> 01:10:07,920
Speaker 1: vanderbilts big must, I'm certain they did, add owls to

1141
01:10:07,960 --> 01:10:11,479
Speaker 1: this story as you picture John's childhood. Um, so their

1142
01:10:11,560 --> 01:10:13,160
Speaker 1: rich as hell and they get the funk out of

1143
01:10:13,160 --> 01:10:15,760
Speaker 1: Oklahoma and moved to Dallas, Texas when John was four,

1144
01:10:15,800 --> 01:10:18,080
Speaker 1: which is so far weirdly like my life in a

1145
01:10:18,080 --> 01:10:20,400
Speaker 1: lot of ways, although I was a bit older. Um,

1146
01:10:20,560 --> 01:10:23,400
Speaker 1: maybe that's why I didn't get the madness. So that's

1147
01:10:23,400 --> 01:10:27,000
Speaker 1: not why. Normally, getting kids away from Oklahoma really really

1148
01:10:27,040 --> 01:10:30,400
Speaker 1: fix his stuff. But John was taken. John was taken

1149
01:10:30,760 --> 01:10:33,720
Speaker 1: to the only place more toxic than small town Oklahoma,

1150
01:10:33,920 --> 01:10:37,519
Speaker 1: a wealthy neighborhood in the Dallas Fort Worth Metroplex. He

1151
01:10:37,600 --> 01:10:40,800
Speaker 1: attended Highland Park High School, the school where I would

1152
01:10:40,880 --> 01:10:44,880
Speaker 1: later lose several speech and debate competitions and win one

1153
01:10:44,960 --> 01:10:47,519
Speaker 1: or two as well. Um, it's where, if you if

1154
01:10:47,520 --> 01:10:50,320
Speaker 1: you're in the DFW area, the rich kids who don't

1155
01:10:50,360 --> 01:10:53,360
Speaker 1: have good drugs go to highland park, but which rich

1156
01:10:53,439 --> 01:10:56,320
Speaker 1: kids with good drugs go to Jesuit because they're private

1157
01:10:56,360 --> 01:10:59,280
Speaker 1: school kids. But Highland Park is like the rich kids

1158
01:10:59,320 --> 01:11:00,799
Speaker 1: who are gonna like try to sell you a shitty

1159
01:11:00,800 --> 01:11:04,040
Speaker 1: ditch weed. Anyway, these are this is important Dallas Fort

1160
01:11:04,040 --> 01:11:06,760
Speaker 1: Worth context and I assume it was the same when

1161
01:11:06,760 --> 01:11:09,599
Speaker 1: he was a child. Um, as far as I've ever

1162
01:11:09,720 --> 01:11:12,559
Speaker 1: found any information, he was a pretty your normal young

1163
01:11:12,560 --> 01:11:15,599
Speaker 1: man for that time and place. UH, there's no one

1164
01:11:15,640 --> 01:11:20,160
Speaker 1: really seems to notice anything particularly different about him. Um,

1165
01:11:20,160 --> 01:11:23,599
Speaker 1: he does reasonably well in school. Uh, later in life

1166
01:11:23,600 --> 01:11:26,080
Speaker 1: he's going to express some racist thoughts in his diary

1167
01:11:26,120 --> 01:11:28,960
Speaker 1: and in other writings prior to the shooting. It doesn't

1168
01:11:29,000 --> 01:11:31,200
Speaker 1: really seem to have ever been a motivating factor in

1169
01:11:31,240 --> 01:11:34,480
Speaker 1: his life and to the extent that he had regressive beliefs,

1170
01:11:34,920 --> 01:11:36,439
Speaker 1: they seem to have been due to the fact that

1171
01:11:36,479 --> 01:11:40,160
Speaker 1: he grew up in a sheltered, rich, all white environment. Um,

1172
01:11:40,200 --> 01:11:44,599
Speaker 1: and that's not great for you. Um, shocked. Yeah, shocked

1173
01:11:46,439 --> 01:11:49,160
Speaker 1: in Texas no less. One right up in the New

1174
01:11:49,200 --> 01:11:52,479
Speaker 1: Republic describes his childhood this way. Perhaps it is fear

1175
01:11:52,560 --> 01:11:55,080
Speaker 1: of what lies outside that makes the interior of the

1176
01:11:55,120 --> 01:11:57,880
Speaker 1: family so rigid and subdued, like life in a well

1177
01:11:57,960 --> 01:12:00,639
Speaker 1: run bunker. The world of the hinkleys was the rootless

1178
01:12:00,640 --> 01:12:03,639
Speaker 1: middle class sun belt culture that nurtures pro family values,

1179
01:12:03,760 --> 01:12:08,080
Speaker 1: Christian fundamentalism and occasional mass murderers. Families move frequently, but

1180
01:12:08,160 --> 01:12:12,480
Speaker 1: without compromising their parochialism. Everywhere people are white. Christian Republican

1181
01:12:12,640 --> 01:12:15,960
Speaker 1: Joanne explains John's egregious prejudices by saying he had never

1182
01:12:16,000 --> 01:12:19,120
Speaker 1: been around people of other races. Somewhere outside there are

1183
01:12:19,120 --> 01:12:22,439
Speaker 1: malign elements, minority groups, rock musicians, big government and the

1184
01:12:22,479 --> 01:12:26,439
Speaker 1: cynical Gosmus cosmopolites who dominate the media. Mothers in this

1185
01:12:26,520 --> 01:12:28,840
Speaker 1: culture do not lavish attention on their children, but on

1186
01:12:28,880 --> 01:12:34,360
Speaker 1: their furniture. Now that is a coastal liberal elite like

1187
01:12:34,560 --> 01:12:37,519
Speaker 1: fucking paragraph, trying to describe like people who grow up

1188
01:12:37,560 --> 01:12:39,479
Speaker 1: in this situation as someone else who grew up in

1189
01:12:39,479 --> 01:12:42,439
Speaker 1: a similar area. I think most of that is pretty

1190
01:12:42,479 --> 01:12:45,200
Speaker 1: silly and, more to the point, it doesn't get to

1191
01:12:45,320 --> 01:12:48,439
Speaker 1: why John does this. We're getting to why John does this.

1192
01:12:48,560 --> 01:12:51,960
Speaker 1: It's not because he grew up sheltered and a little racist. Um.

1193
01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:56,679
Speaker 1: That is not why he shoots the president. Um. There is, however,

1194
01:12:56,760 --> 01:13:00,000
Speaker 1: a bit of that that that does strike me as accurate.

1195
01:13:00,000 --> 01:13:01,960
Speaker 1: It as again, a kid who grew up near here

1196
01:13:02,280 --> 01:13:05,120
Speaker 1: a couple of decades later, which is the description of

1197
01:13:05,160 --> 01:13:07,760
Speaker 1: his childhood as life and a well run bunker, which

1198
01:13:07,800 --> 01:13:09,479
Speaker 1: is kind of how it feels to live in these

1199
01:13:09,520 --> 01:13:13,000
Speaker 1: wealthy enclaves in the Dallas Fort Worth area. I grew

1200
01:13:13,040 --> 01:13:15,120
Speaker 1: up in plan Oh, which is, you know, a couple

1201
01:13:15,120 --> 01:13:17,720
Speaker 1: of steps down the economic rung from Highland Park, but

1202
01:13:17,760 --> 01:13:20,960
Speaker 1: not all that far. and Um, yeah, that's that's not

1203
01:13:21,040 --> 01:13:24,160
Speaker 1: a bad description of it. It just doesn't generally lead

1204
01:13:24,200 --> 01:13:26,240
Speaker 1: to kids shooting the president. More often it leads to

1205
01:13:26,280 --> 01:13:29,040
Speaker 1: them shooting up heroin and then dying of heroin overdoses,

1206
01:13:29,040 --> 01:13:31,120
Speaker 1: which was the big problem in Plano when I was

1207
01:13:31,160 --> 01:13:33,960
Speaker 1: a kid. That said, it's also worth noting that his

1208
01:13:34,040 --> 01:13:35,840
Speaker 1: parents are not, as far as I can find, like

1209
01:13:36,040 --> 01:13:40,160
Speaker 1: fifties stereotypes like his dad's not this super masculine guy

1210
01:13:40,200 --> 01:13:43,719
Speaker 1: who's like mentally abusive to his kid. His his MOM's

1211
01:13:43,800 --> 01:13:46,599
Speaker 1: not like checked out. Neither of them are against the

1212
01:13:46,640 --> 01:13:49,000
Speaker 1: idea that their son might have a mental illness and

1213
01:13:49,080 --> 01:13:51,519
Speaker 1: need help for it. In fact, it seems like they're

1214
01:13:51,600 --> 01:13:55,120
Speaker 1: kind of more open to the idea of reaching out

1215
01:13:55,120 --> 01:13:57,559
Speaker 1: for professional mental health for their kids than a lot

1216
01:13:57,600 --> 01:13:59,639
Speaker 1: of parents would have been at the same time period.

1217
01:14:00,200 --> 01:14:02,840
Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy six John Drops out of Texas tech

1218
01:14:02,880 --> 01:14:04,519
Speaker 1: to go to Hollywood and try to make it as

1219
01:14:04,560 --> 01:14:07,360
Speaker 1: a musician again. His parents are very supportive of him.

1220
01:14:08,080 --> 01:14:10,960
Speaker 1: One cannot say they didn't try to help their son

1221
01:14:11,040 --> 01:14:13,120
Speaker 1: live his dreams. When he gave up on music and

1222
01:14:13,160 --> 01:14:14,800
Speaker 1: he wanted to be a writer, they paid for him

1223
01:14:14,800 --> 01:14:17,000
Speaker 1: to take a class at Yale. We'll get to that

1224
01:14:17,080 --> 01:14:20,160
Speaker 1: in a second. It doesn't go well, UM, because he's

1225
01:14:20,280 --> 01:14:23,160
Speaker 1: yeah anyway. But John's not being honest with his ambitions,

1226
01:14:23,200 --> 01:14:25,320
Speaker 1: nor is he open with his parents about his mental health.

1227
01:14:25,680 --> 01:14:28,679
Speaker 1: We now know that John Developed Schizophrenia as a young

1228
01:14:28,720 --> 01:14:31,080
Speaker 1: man and had a series of psychotic breaks. When he

1229
01:14:31,080 --> 01:14:33,960
Speaker 1: would get money to do stuff like this Yale writing class,

1230
01:14:34,000 --> 01:14:36,120
Speaker 1: he would take it and buy guns. He did go

1231
01:14:36,240 --> 01:14:39,160
Speaker 1: to Yale, but it was mainly to Stalk Jodie Foster,

1232
01:14:39,200 --> 01:14:42,280
Speaker 1: who was going to Yale at the same time. Um. Now,

1233
01:14:42,360 --> 01:14:44,439
Speaker 1: this is all occurring in the late nineteen seventies and

1234
01:14:44,439 --> 01:14:47,200
Speaker 1: early nineteen eighties, which is the fucking Dark Ages for

1235
01:14:47,280 --> 01:14:50,360
Speaker 1: treatment of this particular condition and a lot of other conditions.

1236
01:14:50,360 --> 01:14:53,200
Speaker 1: There are not a lot of good options. Among other things,

1237
01:14:53,240 --> 01:14:55,439
Speaker 1: I just said, he's not open with his parents about

1238
01:14:55,439 --> 01:14:57,960
Speaker 1: the fact that his mental health is declining. I don't

1239
01:14:58,000 --> 01:14:59,880
Speaker 1: know how he really could have been. I don't unders.

1240
01:15:00,080 --> 01:15:03,280
Speaker 1: I don't think it's likely. It's certainly not the case.

1241
01:15:03,360 --> 01:15:04,960
Speaker 1: This didn't happen to John, but I don't think it's

1242
01:15:05,040 --> 01:15:07,360
Speaker 1: very likely for a young man in this time and

1243
01:15:07,400 --> 01:15:10,520
Speaker 1: place to be well equipped by his education or society

1244
01:15:10,560 --> 01:15:12,439
Speaker 1: to express what is going on in his head to

1245
01:15:12,479 --> 01:15:15,200
Speaker 1: his parents. Um, and you know to be fair to

1246
01:15:15,280 --> 01:15:17,880
Speaker 1: his parents, they're not equipped with a lot of like,

1247
01:15:18,439 --> 01:15:21,320
Speaker 1: you know, an ability to really help him out here,

1248
01:15:21,320 --> 01:15:24,439
Speaker 1: and they're doing the things you would want them to do. Again.

1249
01:15:24,479 --> 01:15:27,920
Speaker 1: They repeatedly are bringing in professionals to try to help. Um.

1250
01:15:28,120 --> 01:15:31,280
Speaker 1: None of it is particularly useful, but it's not for

1251
01:15:31,360 --> 01:15:34,800
Speaker 1: lack of trying. Um, like a lot of people who

1252
01:15:34,800 --> 01:15:38,080
Speaker 1: struggle with similar mental health issues, John Seeks refuge in fiction.

1253
01:15:38,439 --> 01:15:41,559
Speaker 1: Unfortunately for everybody, the movie that he finds himself most

1254
01:15:41,680 --> 01:15:44,519
Speaker 1: drawn to is taxi driver, and I think most people

1255
01:15:44,560 --> 01:15:50,400
Speaker 1: are aware of this. It's a bad choice. That's a

1256
01:15:50,479 --> 01:15:53,200
Speaker 1: really bad choice. Yes, if he had found maybe adventure

1257
01:15:53,240 --> 01:15:55,440
Speaker 1: time or something, it would have been a lot healthier,

1258
01:15:55,920 --> 01:15:59,280
Speaker 1: but instead taxi driver. If you haven't seen it, there's

1259
01:15:59,800 --> 01:16:02,720
Speaker 1: the and characters, his kid, Travis bickle, played by a

1260
01:16:02,840 --> 01:16:05,320
Speaker 1: very young Robert Deniro. It is weird to watch him

1261
01:16:05,360 --> 01:16:08,599
Speaker 1: because we're also used to old man Bob Deniro, Um,

1262
01:16:08,640 --> 01:16:12,280
Speaker 1: who is thinking about assassinating like a presidential candidate and

1263
01:16:12,320 --> 01:16:16,480
Speaker 1: then kind of through movie magic, rescues a child prostitute

1264
01:16:16,520 --> 01:16:21,520
Speaker 1: played by Jodie Foster, from a pimp. Um and Hinckley

1265
01:16:21,880 --> 01:16:24,080
Speaker 1: thinks the movie is kind of talking to him and

1266
01:16:24,120 --> 01:16:27,679
Speaker 1: providing him with like information about how he can fix

1267
01:16:27,720 --> 01:16:31,080
Speaker 1: his own life. He starts dressing like Travis bickle. He

1268
01:16:31,120 --> 01:16:34,000
Speaker 1: starts wearing like an army jacket and boots and drinking

1269
01:16:34,000 --> 01:16:36,880
Speaker 1: the way that bickle drank. He starts buying guns. He

1270
01:16:36,920 --> 01:16:40,559
Speaker 1: gets really into guns for you know. Um, he starts,

1271
01:16:40,600 --> 01:16:42,759
Speaker 1: you know, in letters that he's writing home to his parents.

1272
01:16:42,880 --> 01:16:45,519
Speaker 1: He starts talking about this relationship he has with a

1273
01:16:45,520 --> 01:16:48,880
Speaker 1: woman named Lynn, who isn't real but who sounds a

1274
01:16:48,920 --> 01:16:51,439
Speaker 1: lot like one of the women that Travis bickle has

1275
01:16:51,439 --> 01:16:55,559
Speaker 1: an interest with in the movie. Um and yeah, this

1276
01:16:55,640 --> 01:16:57,960
Speaker 1: is kind of the start of his obsession with Jodie Foster,

1277
01:16:58,000 --> 01:16:59,880
Speaker 1: and there are people who will like say that he's

1278
01:16:59,880 --> 01:17:02,639
Speaker 1: a pedophile because she's thirteen in the movie. That doesn't

1279
01:17:02,640 --> 01:17:05,559
Speaker 1: seem to be the case when he is actually stalking

1280
01:17:05,560 --> 01:17:07,880
Speaker 1: her and most obsessed with her, she is eighteen and

1281
01:17:07,920 --> 01:17:10,559
Speaker 1: he is stalking her in real life and calling her

1282
01:17:10,600 --> 01:17:13,040
Speaker 1: on the phone and stuff, which is like bad and

1283
01:17:13,160 --> 01:17:15,920
Speaker 1: messed up. But he's not into her because she's young

1284
01:17:15,960 --> 01:17:18,080
Speaker 1: in this movie. He's into her because he's he's kind

1285
01:17:18,120 --> 01:17:20,840
Speaker 1: of losing his mind and obsessing with her right. So,

1286
01:17:21,240 --> 01:17:22,960
Speaker 1: while this is all going on kind of in the

1287
01:17:23,040 --> 01:17:27,400
Speaker 1: late stages of this his parents bringing a psychiatrist. Um. Again,

1288
01:17:27,479 --> 01:17:30,240
Speaker 1: they're they're willing to fund and support him and seeking

1289
01:17:30,280 --> 01:17:33,840
Speaker 1: professional help. The doctor they wound up getting for him.

1290
01:17:34,120 --> 01:17:36,080
Speaker 1: I don't know if he's a bad doctor for the time,

1291
01:17:36,160 --> 01:17:38,640
Speaker 1: but he's wrong as Hell. He kind of looks at

1292
01:17:38,680 --> 01:17:41,680
Speaker 1: the fact that John has been normal, quote unquote and

1293
01:17:42,040 --> 01:17:44,240
Speaker 1: quote unquote, in high school and like at the start

1294
01:17:44,280 --> 01:17:46,920
Speaker 1: of his college career, and so he looks at this

1295
01:17:47,000 --> 01:17:49,840
Speaker 1: kid who's like seems to be developmentally normal up to

1296
01:17:49,880 --> 01:17:52,200
Speaker 1: a certain point and then goes off the rails and says, well,

1297
01:17:52,200 --> 01:17:54,280
Speaker 1: it's because you were sheltered and coddled by your rich

1298
01:17:54,320 --> 01:17:57,640
Speaker 1: parents and you're just lazy right. That's that's that's what

1299
01:17:57,760 --> 01:18:00,160
Speaker 1: this guy says. So a big part of his is

1300
01:18:00,200 --> 01:18:02,320
Speaker 1: like advice to mom and dad is you gotta cut

1301
01:18:02,400 --> 01:18:04,880
Speaker 1: him off. You can't. Can't keep giving him stuff, can't

1302
01:18:04,920 --> 01:18:07,879
Speaker 1: keep giving him money, can't keep taking care of him. Um.

1303
01:18:07,920 --> 01:18:09,920
Speaker 1: So while this is happening and this guy is like

1304
01:18:10,000 --> 01:18:12,839
Speaker 1: making them make plans for John to be less reliant

1305
01:18:12,840 --> 01:18:16,160
Speaker 1: on his parents, John Hankley is getting way more into guns.

1306
01:18:16,360 --> 01:18:18,840
Speaker 1: He does a lot of target shooting. He also plays

1307
01:18:18,840 --> 01:18:21,439
Speaker 1: a lot of Russian roulette with himself alone in his basement,

1308
01:18:21,479 --> 01:18:25,799
Speaker 1: which is not not great. Um, in Christmas of nineteen

1309
01:18:25,880 --> 01:18:28,479
Speaker 1: seventy nine, he takes a very famous photo of himself

1310
01:18:28,520 --> 01:18:32,480
Speaker 1: holding a handgun to his temple. Now John is increasingly

1311
01:18:32,520 --> 01:18:35,280
Speaker 1: harassing jodie foster in this period. Now, what he's doing

1312
01:18:35,360 --> 01:18:37,479
Speaker 1: is not he's not just obsessing with her and it's

1313
01:18:37,520 --> 01:18:40,240
Speaker 1: one sided. He is reaching her on the phone. They

1314
01:18:40,280 --> 01:18:44,720
Speaker 1: talk a couple of times. Yes, they do. Uh. She

1315
01:18:45,000 --> 01:18:48,920
Speaker 1: is always very terse in their calls. Always, you can

1316
01:18:48,920 --> 01:18:51,759
Speaker 1: tell is kind of frightened, but is very controlled and careful.

1317
01:18:51,800 --> 01:18:54,719
Speaker 1: I would describe the way she handles this is very

1318
01:18:54,800 --> 01:18:58,120
Speaker 1: responsible and, like you can tell, she's talked with like people,

1319
01:18:58,160 --> 01:18:59,920
Speaker 1: I think, like her manager or something, and been like

1320
01:19:00,000 --> 01:19:02,519
Speaker 1: I have been advised, like, I don't want you calling it.

1321
01:19:02,600 --> 01:19:05,640
Speaker 1: She's very tries to be very clear here, Um, and

1322
01:19:05,680 --> 01:19:07,639
Speaker 1: I think handles this as well as a person can

1323
01:19:07,680 --> 01:19:11,200
Speaker 1: possibly handle, you know, being stalked in this way. I

1324
01:19:11,240 --> 01:19:13,200
Speaker 1: believe he's able to get her number because, like, it's

1325
01:19:13,240 --> 01:19:17,200
Speaker 1: the eighties and people just have numbers in the phone book. Um, again,

1326
01:19:17,400 --> 01:19:19,360
Speaker 1: she's kind of taking a break from Hollywood right now

1327
01:19:19,439 --> 01:19:23,320
Speaker 1: and is going to Yale. Um, his obsession with foster

1328
01:19:23,479 --> 01:19:26,400
Speaker 1: veers between these kind of like fantasies of like harming

1329
01:19:26,439 --> 01:19:30,479
Speaker 1: her or harming a guy that she's with, or harming

1330
01:19:30,560 --> 01:19:34,280
Speaker 1: himself and eventually harming the president of the United States.

1331
01:19:34,320 --> 01:19:37,040
Speaker 1: Now he is not want to shoot the president for

1332
01:19:37,080 --> 01:19:40,840
Speaker 1: political reasons. He has no kind of particular anger at

1333
01:19:40,880 --> 01:19:42,960
Speaker 1: the president that he wants to work out with a gun.

1334
01:19:43,360 --> 01:19:46,679
Speaker 1: He wants number one to impress her and he wants

1335
01:19:46,720 --> 01:19:49,760
Speaker 1: everyone to know his name and know his name associated

1336
01:19:49,760 --> 01:19:53,840
Speaker 1: with Jodie foster right because, again, he's very ill. Um,

1337
01:19:54,000 --> 01:19:56,479
Speaker 1: he starts following Jimmy Carter around. He goes to like

1338
01:19:56,520 --> 01:19:59,400
Speaker 1: three different Jimmy Carter rallies in D C and in Ohio.

1339
01:19:59,720 --> 01:20:02,400
Speaker 1: There's video of him twenty feet away from Carter at

1340
01:20:02,400 --> 01:20:05,840
Speaker 1: one point. He probably has a gun on him. Um,

1341
01:20:05,880 --> 01:20:09,240
Speaker 1: like he gets really close to Carter. Again. One of

1342
01:20:09,280 --> 01:20:12,719
Speaker 1: the through lines here is that, like, presidential security wasn't

1343
01:20:12,720 --> 01:20:17,479
Speaker 1: great in nineteen yeah, it's not very good. Um, Carter

1344
01:20:17,720 --> 01:20:21,679
Speaker 1: John Thinks about shooting Carter. He's probably there and equipped

1345
01:20:21,680 --> 01:20:24,160
Speaker 1: to do it, but he just can't get himself into

1346
01:20:24,160 --> 01:20:26,760
Speaker 1: the frame of mind to shoot Jimmy Carter, which is

1347
01:20:26,840 --> 01:20:30,120
Speaker 1: understandable because it is. It is Jimmy Carter right, like

1348
01:20:30,160 --> 01:20:32,120
Speaker 1: he is a hard man to want to shoot to death.

1349
01:20:32,760 --> 01:20:36,160
Speaker 1: So there's a moment where he like yeah, so he's

1350
01:20:36,200 --> 01:20:38,840
Speaker 1: he's kind of bouncing around. After this period where he

1351
01:20:38,960 --> 01:20:43,280
Speaker 1: like is he thinks about shooting Carter, but he doesn't.

1352
01:20:43,520 --> 01:20:47,120
Speaker 1: He is in communication with this Nazi ideologue and they

1353
01:20:47,200 --> 01:20:50,559
Speaker 1: almost have a meeting but they don't. Um, that's all

1354
01:20:50,640 --> 01:20:53,679
Speaker 1: kind of obscure, kind of unclear. And then on October

1355
01:20:53,720 --> 01:20:56,799
Speaker 1: six nineteen eighty, he gets arrested at the Nashville airport

1356
01:20:56,840 --> 01:20:59,680
Speaker 1: with a briefcase full of handguns and a pair of handcuffs.

1357
01:21:00,479 --> 01:21:08,639
Speaker 1: Now hops has been in this situation. The gun bag

1358
01:21:08,800 --> 01:21:14,000
Speaker 1: and oops. Yeah, he says he's just trying to sell them,

1359
01:21:14,040 --> 01:21:16,040
Speaker 1: and they're like, well, you still can't get on a

1360
01:21:16,080 --> 01:21:19,240
Speaker 1: plane with a bunch of guns, John Inkley j this

1361
01:21:19,320 --> 01:21:23,880
Speaker 1: is yeah, this is pre night eleven, so you have

1362
01:21:23,960 --> 01:21:27,479
Speaker 1: to assist. He's looking weird. He's like sweaty and in

1363
01:21:27,520 --> 01:21:30,559
Speaker 1: an army jacket and talking to him and they're like, well,

1364
01:21:30,600 --> 01:21:34,160
Speaker 1: we've literally never searched a single person before in the

1365
01:21:34,320 --> 01:21:38,080
Speaker 1: entire life of this airport. But let's check this guy.

1366
01:21:38,479 --> 01:21:41,639
Speaker 1: What's this massively heavy brief case? There's a fucking there's

1367
01:21:41,680 --> 01:21:43,880
Speaker 1: a dude just walking in with a Stinger and they're

1368
01:21:43,920 --> 01:21:45,960
Speaker 1: like no, no, let that guy on, but we gotta

1369
01:21:46,080 --> 01:21:51,120
Speaker 1: check John Inkley. Um, so he flies to Dallas where

1370
01:21:51,160 --> 01:21:55,200
Speaker 1: he buys more handguns and some explosive twenty two caliber bullets.

1371
01:21:55,360 --> 01:21:57,000
Speaker 1: We will talk about that in a little bit, but

1372
01:21:57,040 --> 01:22:01,439
Speaker 1: they are explosive bullets for twenty two. Yes, they are

1373
01:22:01,479 --> 01:22:04,880
Speaker 1: bullets that are to explode on impact. Is He like

1374
01:22:05,000 --> 01:22:07,479
Speaker 1: reading soldier of Fortune Magazine at this point? Because this

1375
01:22:07,560 --> 01:22:10,360
Speaker 1: is nobody. He's like a gun culture. So I haven't

1376
01:22:10,439 --> 01:22:13,680
Speaker 1: we have to assume. I think his family's kind of

1377
01:22:13,760 --> 01:22:18,479
Speaker 1: casually conservative. He is kind of maybe, as is embodied

1378
01:22:18,479 --> 01:22:20,920
Speaker 1: by the Nazi thing, probably dabbling in some areas. Again,

1379
01:22:22,200 --> 01:22:24,960
Speaker 1: I think that's that's certainly not good for him. It's also,

1380
01:22:25,040 --> 01:22:27,719
Speaker 1: I don't think politics. I haven't seen any real evidence

1381
01:22:27,720 --> 01:22:30,240
Speaker 1: that politics is a motivating factor. And what this guy

1382
01:22:30,360 --> 01:22:35,160
Speaker 1: is doing. Um, he does get explosive bullets. Probably helps

1383
01:22:35,200 --> 01:22:37,360
Speaker 1: that he has explosive bullets in terms of making this

1384
01:22:37,520 --> 01:22:41,000
Speaker 1: less dangerous. These are not good explosive bullets. They are

1385
01:22:41,040 --> 01:22:43,599
Speaker 1: meant to be fired out of a larger weapon than

1386
01:22:43,640 --> 01:22:46,759
Speaker 1: he fires them out of. But they are supposed to. Basically,

1387
01:22:46,760 --> 01:22:49,040
Speaker 1: the idea is that these are twenty two caliber rounds,

1388
01:22:49,040 --> 01:22:51,800
Speaker 1: so the idea is that this little explosive charge in

1389
01:22:51,880 --> 01:22:54,200
Speaker 1: them makes them more like a thirty eight. So we're

1390
01:22:54,200 --> 01:22:57,559
Speaker 1: not talking about like military grade weaponry or anything here.

1391
01:22:57,760 --> 01:23:00,439
Speaker 1: Why is he doing? You may not know, of course,

1392
01:23:00,600 --> 01:23:03,360
Speaker 1: but like if he's a massive gun dog, it's not

1393
01:23:03,439 --> 01:23:06,120
Speaker 1: a massive no, gun culture is different than right. He's

1394
01:23:06,160 --> 01:23:08,760
Speaker 1: buying a bunch of handguns. He's shooting a lot. I

1395
01:23:09,000 --> 01:23:11,320
Speaker 1: don't know that it would be. He's not particularly good

1396
01:23:11,400 --> 01:23:15,800
Speaker 1: or knowledgeable with right. Okay, yeah, but gun cultures very

1397
01:23:15,800 --> 01:23:18,200
Speaker 1: it's harder to get information about guns. Right. Maybe the

1398
01:23:18,280 --> 01:23:20,200
Speaker 1: day he would have gotten a lot more into like

1399
01:23:20,240 --> 01:23:25,040
Speaker 1: just flipping through magazines exactly. You can't look something up online. Yeah, yeah,

1400
01:23:25,320 --> 01:23:29,000
Speaker 1: he's twenty two good for assassination, just exactly. And this

1401
01:23:29,080 --> 01:23:30,880
Speaker 1: is also like this is what he can afford. Right.

1402
01:23:30,920 --> 01:23:33,760
Speaker 1: He gets kind of a he's lost his better guns, right,

1403
01:23:34,479 --> 01:23:37,120
Speaker 1: they have their property of the states. So he winds

1404
01:23:37,160 --> 01:23:39,720
Speaker 1: up with this twenty two and he gets these explosive

1405
01:23:39,760 --> 01:23:41,639
Speaker 1: bullets to try to make it give more of a kick.

1406
01:23:42,200 --> 01:23:45,000
Speaker 1: Obviously the thing that's going on in the background here

1407
01:23:45,040 --> 01:23:47,320
Speaker 1: is that Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan having a presidential

1408
01:23:47,320 --> 01:23:50,680
Speaker 1: election which Reagan wins. Um. We'll talk a little bit

1409
01:23:50,680 --> 01:23:54,360
Speaker 1: about kind of that a bit later, but that happens.

1410
01:23:55,520 --> 01:23:59,639
Speaker 1: Reagan is the president elect. Um He flies home. Hinckley

1411
01:23:59,680 --> 01:24:02,759
Speaker 1: flies home. Things continue to deteriorate in his own life.

1412
01:24:03,400 --> 01:24:07,240
Speaker 1: He's continued to travel around. John Lennon is assassinated and

1413
01:24:07,280 --> 01:24:09,439
Speaker 1: he kind of goes a little bit nuts over that

1414
01:24:09,479 --> 01:24:12,760
Speaker 1: because he loves John Lennon. Also might kind of think

1415
01:24:12,760 --> 01:24:15,519
Speaker 1: that he is John Lennon. So that does not help

1416
01:24:15,600 --> 01:24:20,320
Speaker 1: his mental state. He visits the the the what is it?

1417
01:24:20,320 --> 01:24:22,040
Speaker 1: The shrine to him in New York at one point

1418
01:24:22,040 --> 01:24:23,639
Speaker 1: and kind of when he gets back in March of nine,

1419
01:24:24,640 --> 01:24:27,600
Speaker 1: his dad cuts him off basically like says, you know,

1420
01:24:27,600 --> 01:24:29,839
Speaker 1: you've got your here's your car, here's two hundred dollars.

1421
01:24:30,160 --> 01:24:32,320
Speaker 1: We can't take care of you anymore, John. And I

1422
01:24:32,320 --> 01:24:34,560
Speaker 1: think this is his dad basically trying to take that

1423
01:24:34,600 --> 01:24:37,200
Speaker 1: psychiatrist advice of like it. We need to have tough love.

1424
01:24:37,200 --> 01:24:38,519
Speaker 1: He has to be forced to kind of get his

1425
01:24:38,560 --> 01:24:41,640
Speaker 1: ship together. But John Hinckley is not really capable of

1426
01:24:41,640 --> 01:24:44,200
Speaker 1: getting his ship together because he is profoundly ill. So

1427
01:24:44,240 --> 01:24:46,360
Speaker 1: he uses that money to pay for hotel rooms in

1428
01:24:46,400 --> 01:24:49,760
Speaker 1: Denver where he sits alone watching television with a gun. Um.

1429
01:24:50,040 --> 01:24:55,479
Speaker 1: Not Great Treatment for schizophrenia. Reagan wins the election, uh,

1430
01:24:55,520 --> 01:24:58,600
Speaker 1: in what was a sweep electorally but fairly tight in

1431
01:24:58,680 --> 01:25:01,719
Speaker 1: terms of popular vote. He got like fifty point five

1432
01:25:01,760 --> 01:25:04,479
Speaker 1: percent of the popular boats something like that. It's pretty close.

1433
01:25:04,920 --> 01:25:07,000
Speaker 1: And soon after taking office he gets hammered on a

1434
01:25:07,000 --> 01:25:09,439
Speaker 1: bunch of stuff. Right, the economy is not great. He's this,

1435
01:25:09,640 --> 01:25:12,120
Speaker 1: he's he's back. He's like going for a bunch of

1436
01:25:12,120 --> 01:25:14,400
Speaker 1: far right policies to unwind the new deal, a lot

1437
01:25:14,400 --> 01:25:16,280
Speaker 1: of which are unpopular and some of which he said

1438
01:25:16,280 --> 01:25:19,479
Speaker 1: he wasn't gonna do, and debates with Carter. He's not.

1439
01:25:20,160 --> 01:25:22,760
Speaker 1: He doesn't have the kind of traditional grace period most

1440
01:25:22,800 --> 01:25:26,240
Speaker 1: presidents get where they're broadly popular. Right, Um, it's not

1441
01:25:26,360 --> 01:25:28,760
Speaker 1: looking great for kind of the midterms, is what I'm

1442
01:25:28,800 --> 01:25:32,040
Speaker 1: getting at Um. So Reagan's staff is struggling to right

1443
01:25:32,160 --> 01:25:34,080
Speaker 1: the ship, trying to figure out like, how do we

1444
01:25:34,320 --> 01:25:37,519
Speaker 1: how do we fix all this, Reagan or Hinckley, while

1445
01:25:37,560 --> 01:25:40,000
Speaker 1: this is going and gets convinced that like shooting the

1446
01:25:40,000 --> 01:25:42,320
Speaker 1: president is a pretty good idea. He doesn't have a

1447
01:25:42,400 --> 01:25:44,680
Speaker 1: lot of other options. He's kind of like running out

1448
01:25:44,680 --> 01:25:46,880
Speaker 1: of money and he's able to get a little bit

1449
01:25:46,880 --> 01:25:50,320
Speaker 1: more from his mom, but he's he's increasingly unhinged and

1450
01:25:50,400 --> 01:25:53,400
Speaker 1: alone and desperate. On March twenty nine, he checks into

1451
01:25:53,400 --> 01:25:55,439
Speaker 1: a hotel in D C where he finds in a

1452
01:25:55,520 --> 01:25:59,080
Speaker 1: local paper the president's schedule. He loads his twenty two

1453
01:25:59,080 --> 01:26:01,920
Speaker 1: caliber revolver, he writes a letter to Jodie foster and

1454
01:26:01,920 --> 01:26:04,760
Speaker 1: he travels to the Hilton, where the president is set

1455
01:26:04,800 --> 01:26:07,680
Speaker 1: to deliver a speech to union workers. Here is how

1456
01:26:07,760 --> 01:26:12,360
Speaker 1: John's letter to uh to her ends. Quote. I will

1457
01:26:12,400 --> 01:26:14,120
Speaker 1: admit to you that the reason I'm going ahead with

1458
01:26:14,160 --> 01:26:16,559
Speaker 1: this attempt now is because I just cannot wait any

1459
01:26:16,560 --> 01:26:18,920
Speaker 1: longer to impress you. I've got to do something now

1460
01:26:18,960 --> 01:26:21,200
Speaker 1: to make you understand, and no one certain terms, that

1461
01:26:21,240 --> 01:26:23,240
Speaker 1: I am doing all of this for your sake. By

1462
01:26:23,240 --> 01:26:25,800
Speaker 1: sacrificing my freedom and possibly my life, I hope to

1463
01:26:25,880 --> 01:26:28,559
Speaker 1: change your mind about me. This letter is being written

1464
01:26:28,640 --> 01:26:31,320
Speaker 1: only an hour before I leave for the Hilton Hotel. Jody,

1465
01:26:31,360 --> 01:26:33,360
Speaker 1: I'm asking you to please look into your heart and

1466
01:26:33,400 --> 01:26:35,719
Speaker 1: at least give me the chance, with this historical deed,

1467
01:26:35,800 --> 01:26:38,320
Speaker 1: to gain your respect and love. I love you forever,

1468
01:26:38,760 --> 01:26:46,439
Speaker 1: John Hankley. It's not great. Yeah, yeah, not a great

1469
01:26:46,520 --> 01:26:50,000
Speaker 1: letter to get, not a great letter to ascend was.

1470
01:26:50,000 --> 01:26:53,400
Speaker 1: Was this actually delivered in the mail? I believe so. Yeah,

1471
01:26:53,439 --> 01:26:55,400
Speaker 1: I think this she ends up getting this. I mean,

1472
01:26:55,439 --> 01:26:58,160
Speaker 1: like she has to come to court and stuff when

1473
01:26:58,160 --> 01:27:00,439
Speaker 1: he goes on trial. It's like something he kind of

1474
01:27:00,479 --> 01:27:02,640
Speaker 1: demands and I think she does to just make it

1475
01:27:02,680 --> 01:27:06,920
Speaker 1: easier for things to move along. Um, obviously she. She

1476
01:27:07,000 --> 01:27:09,120
Speaker 1: does nothing wrong at any point in this process. She's

1477
01:27:09,160 --> 01:27:11,840
Speaker 1: just living her life and this guy is out of

1478
01:27:11,840 --> 01:27:14,080
Speaker 1: his out of out of his head and has easy

1479
01:27:14,120 --> 01:27:19,000
Speaker 1: access to guns, Um, which is a problem. At PM

1480
01:27:19,040 --> 01:27:23,080
Speaker 1: on March nine, one John Hinckley JR opens fire at

1481
01:27:23,120 --> 01:27:26,360
Speaker 1: the president's entourage from just a few feet away. Reagan

1482
01:27:26,439 --> 01:27:28,439
Speaker 1: had been speaking to a bunch of union guys at

1483
01:27:28,479 --> 01:27:30,800
Speaker 1: this this thing at the Hilton Anyway, and they're kind

1484
01:27:30,800 --> 01:27:34,479
Speaker 1: of like walking out into towards the Limo when this happens.

1485
01:27:34,960 --> 01:27:38,559
Speaker 1: John's first shot hits James Brady, the press secretary and

1486
01:27:38,640 --> 01:27:41,920
Speaker 1: former PR man for Philish loafly in his head. Uh.

1487
01:27:42,000 --> 01:27:45,120
Speaker 1: He then wounds a police officer and a secret service agent.

1488
01:27:45,439 --> 01:27:48,120
Speaker 1: He actually does not hit. Probably does not. I don't

1489
01:27:48,120 --> 01:27:49,800
Speaker 1: I think there's still a little bit of debate because

1490
01:27:49,800 --> 01:27:52,719
Speaker 1: it's like ballistics are kind of fucky. But he probably

1491
01:27:52,760 --> 01:27:56,559
Speaker 1: doesn't directly hit Reagan. Instead around fragments and bounces off

1492
01:27:56,600 --> 01:27:59,640
Speaker 1: the armored limousine, penetrating the president's lung. None of the

1493
01:27:59,680 --> 01:28:02,040
Speaker 1: ex past of bullets explode because they're not the right

1494
01:28:02,080 --> 01:28:04,599
Speaker 1: bullets for the gun. The barrel is too short. Um,

1495
01:28:04,680 --> 01:28:07,519
Speaker 1: so it doesn't. It might even do less damage than

1496
01:28:07,560 --> 01:28:10,559
Speaker 1: it would have done, although maybe they fragment because they're

1497
01:28:10,600 --> 01:28:13,519
Speaker 1: these weird explosive bullets and that's why Reagan gets hurt anyway.

1498
01:28:13,760 --> 01:28:16,760
Speaker 1: Hard to say. Nobody really understands ballistic style that well.

1499
01:28:16,800 --> 01:28:19,200
Speaker 1: Today there's a lot of debate over how all this

1500
01:28:19,240 --> 01:28:22,439
Speaker 1: stuff works. Reagan had been in office for sixty nine

1501
01:28:22,520 --> 01:28:25,080
Speaker 1: days and no real plan existed for what to do

1502
01:28:25,160 --> 01:28:27,559
Speaker 1: if the president gets shot and is alive but is

1503
01:28:27,640 --> 01:28:30,759
Speaker 1: unable to do the job of the president. Um, fucking

1504
01:28:31,160 --> 01:28:33,200
Speaker 1: George H W Bush is in the air a bunch

1505
01:28:33,200 --> 01:28:35,800
Speaker 1: of this time and like people can't reach him, Um,

1506
01:28:35,880 --> 01:28:37,360
Speaker 1: and they're like, but he's they're saying you need to

1507
01:28:37,400 --> 01:28:40,880
Speaker 1: come back to Watchington now. Um. So kind of the

1508
01:28:40,920 --> 01:28:44,240
Speaker 1: people running the country for a few hours is Al Hague,

1509
01:28:44,240 --> 01:28:46,599
Speaker 1: the Secretary of state, and like a room full of

1510
01:28:46,680 --> 01:28:49,879
Speaker 1: guys in the cabinet who were all disagreeing about everything

1511
01:28:50,200 --> 01:28:53,160
Speaker 1: and none of whom are constitutionally supposed to be running

1512
01:28:53,160 --> 01:28:56,920
Speaker 1: the country. Um, it's a real big problem. Like the

1513
01:28:56,960 --> 01:28:59,479
Speaker 1: fucking like the the press ask at one point, because hey,

1514
01:28:59,479 --> 01:29:01,960
Speaker 1: it goes out there tripul like hey, the president's in surgery,

1515
01:29:01,960 --> 01:29:04,519
Speaker 1: and they're like, well, who's? WHO's in charge, like with

1516
01:29:04,560 --> 01:29:06,880
Speaker 1: the nukes and stuff? WHO's running the country? And he's like,

1517
01:29:07,000 --> 01:29:08,920
Speaker 1: we got a whole room for the guys. Don't worry,

1518
01:29:08,960 --> 01:29:10,840
Speaker 1: it's all fine, and they're like, is that what the

1519
01:29:10,920 --> 01:29:13,160
Speaker 1: law says, because I don't think that's how it's supposed

1520
01:29:13,200 --> 01:29:17,720
Speaker 1: to go. Um, it's it's not great. It's actually a

1521
01:29:17,760 --> 01:29:20,200
Speaker 1: real problem. And they do they make a bunch of

1522
01:29:20,280 --> 01:29:22,800
Speaker 1: changes after this to make sure that, like, we never

1523
01:29:23,080 --> 01:29:26,200
Speaker 1: don't know who the president is when, if this kind

1524
01:29:26,240 --> 01:29:29,240
Speaker 1: of thing happens, at least Um. But on a political

1525
01:29:29,320 --> 01:29:33,200
Speaker 1: level this is fucking gangbusters. For the Reagan administration, and

1526
01:29:33,240 --> 01:29:35,080
Speaker 1: I'M gonna quote from a write up an Elpie here.

1527
01:29:37,040 --> 01:29:40,400
Speaker 1: The assassination attempt silenced criticism of his administration at a

1528
01:29:40,439 --> 01:29:43,599
Speaker 1: critical point early in his term. Explains H W brand's,

1529
01:29:43,640 --> 01:29:46,559
Speaker 1: author of the biography Reagan the life in an email

1530
01:29:46,840 --> 01:29:49,400
Speaker 1: the good humor he exhibited during his recovery. He spent

1531
01:29:49,439 --> 01:29:52,360
Speaker 1: only twelve days in the hospital, convinced many skeptics, some

1532
01:29:52,439 --> 01:29:54,759
Speaker 1: of some of his followers believe that God had forgiven

1533
01:29:54,800 --> 01:29:56,680
Speaker 1: him to allow him to finish his work, and it

1534
01:29:56,760 --> 01:30:00,559
Speaker 1: is possible that Reagan thought so too. On anniversary of

1535
01:30:00,560 --> 01:30:04,519
Speaker 1: the assassination attempt, journalist Del winton Wilbur published raw hide down,

1536
01:30:04,680 --> 01:30:07,800
Speaker 1: a thorough investigation full of revelations of what happened that day.

1537
01:30:08,080 --> 01:30:09,880
Speaker 1: The book is written in the style of true crime

1538
01:30:09,880 --> 01:30:11,840
Speaker 1: and its title as a reference to the Secret Service

1539
01:30:11,880 --> 01:30:14,960
Speaker 1: Code name given to Reagan, raw hide. Joe Biden's code

1540
01:30:15,000 --> 01:30:18,439
Speaker 1: name is Celtic and Donald Trump's was mogul. It reaches

1541
01:30:18,479 --> 01:30:21,960
Speaker 1: two important conclusions. Firstly, it argues that Reagan became the

1542
01:30:22,000 --> 01:30:24,920
Speaker 1: first president since Eisenhower to serve two terms because of

1543
01:30:24,960 --> 01:30:27,479
Speaker 1: the way he and his team handled the assassination attempt,

1544
01:30:27,760 --> 01:30:30,520
Speaker 1: and secondly, the White House did not reveal the seriousness

1545
01:30:30,560 --> 01:30:34,160
Speaker 1: of Reagan's injuries. He walks into the hospital and then

1546
01:30:34,240 --> 01:30:38,759
Speaker 1: stops breathing and collapses. Um, like. He walks in specifically

1547
01:30:38,760 --> 01:30:41,200
Speaker 1: because he wants to be seen walking in, and it's

1548
01:30:41,200 --> 01:30:43,519
Speaker 1: like they don't know that he's been shot at first.

1549
01:30:43,560 --> 01:30:46,479
Speaker 1: It's not like bleeding a bunch outside, he's bleeding internally.

1550
01:30:46,560 --> 01:30:49,400
Speaker 1: So it's this is like legitimately the best case scenario.

1551
01:30:49,760 --> 01:30:51,439
Speaker 1: It would have been hard to figure out what had

1552
01:30:51,439 --> 01:30:54,400
Speaker 1: happened to him, kind of because you can't immediately tell

1553
01:30:54,439 --> 01:30:56,880
Speaker 1: that he's bleeding. A lot of people have been shot,

1554
01:30:56,920 --> 01:30:59,240
Speaker 1: and so everyone just kind of assumes he's having a

1555
01:30:59,240 --> 01:31:01,360
Speaker 1: heart attack, which is why they take him to the hospital.

1556
01:31:01,640 --> 01:31:03,679
Speaker 1: He thinks, actually, I think he believes that his secret

1557
01:31:03,680 --> 01:31:07,640
Speaker 1: service agent broke his ribs getting him into the Limo. Um,

1558
01:31:07,680 --> 01:31:09,360
Speaker 1: but if they've taken him to the White House first,

1559
01:31:09,360 --> 01:31:11,640
Speaker 1: he would have fucking died. He loses half of his

1560
01:31:11,720 --> 01:31:15,320
Speaker 1: blood in the surgery, like it's that's which is like

1561
01:31:15,360 --> 01:31:17,439
Speaker 1: bad if you lose half your blood. That's not like

1562
01:31:17,439 --> 01:31:21,000
Speaker 1: a great injury. Um, just it's his lung collapsing. Is

1563
01:31:21,120 --> 01:31:24,160
Speaker 1: that what's happening? Like, yeah, they've got him on oxygen

1564
01:31:24,200 --> 01:31:27,439
Speaker 1: and stuff. He's like barely able to joke with the doctors,

1565
01:31:27,439 --> 01:31:29,160
Speaker 1: which he does, which is one of the things that

1566
01:31:29,240 --> 01:31:31,919
Speaker 1: like goes viral from this and makes him so popular

1567
01:31:31,960 --> 01:31:37,439
Speaker 1: because he's he's Yucking it up old Ronnie um his. Yeah,

1568
01:31:37,479 --> 01:31:40,160
Speaker 1: this is believed. There's a number of massive long term

1569
01:31:40,200 --> 01:31:42,880
Speaker 1: fucking consequences. One of them is that this is why

1570
01:31:43,760 --> 01:31:46,760
Speaker 1: Nancy brings in Joan quickly the astrologer like this is

1571
01:31:46,800 --> 01:31:49,120
Speaker 1: when she you can refer back to behind the bastards

1572
01:31:49,120 --> 01:31:51,400
Speaker 1: two part or on the Reagan astrologer. But this is

1573
01:31:51,439 --> 01:31:55,040
Speaker 1: why the Reagan astrologer becomes like they start. They stopped

1574
01:31:55,160 --> 01:31:57,880
Speaker 1: having him do events when the astrologer says it's a

1575
01:31:57,880 --> 01:32:00,960
Speaker 1: bad day for it and ship because, like Nancy, this

1576
01:32:01,080 --> 01:32:04,000
Speaker 1: kind of breaks her and it also kind of breaks Ronald.

1577
01:32:04,040 --> 01:32:06,920
Speaker 1: He's not the same man after getting shot, which, to

1578
01:32:06,960 --> 01:32:10,160
Speaker 1: be fair, he is seventy when this happens. So getting

1579
01:32:10,200 --> 01:32:12,519
Speaker 1: shot in the lung at seventy, most people are gonna

1580
01:32:12,560 --> 01:32:15,000
Speaker 1: come back all the way. This is also probably doesn't

1581
01:32:15,000 --> 01:32:17,920
Speaker 1: help the Alzheimer's May accelerate the timetable there. But on

1582
01:32:18,000 --> 01:32:21,440
Speaker 1: a political level this goes fucking great for the Republicans

1583
01:32:21,520 --> 01:32:23,639
Speaker 1: and it allows them to do a lot of really

1584
01:32:23,680 --> 01:32:27,799
Speaker 1: fucked up ship, and I'M gonna quote from CNN here. Today,

1585
01:32:27,880 --> 01:32:30,559
Speaker 1: Reagan is the only modern president who receives high marks

1586
01:32:30,600 --> 01:32:33,800
Speaker 1: from Republicans, Democrats and independence alike. A look at the

1587
01:32:33,840 --> 01:32:36,840
Speaker 1: polls can quantify the roots of this enduring goodwill. Despite

1588
01:32:37,280 --> 01:32:39,800
Speaker 1: an electoral landslide over Jimmy Carter with a forty four

1589
01:32:39,840 --> 01:32:42,840
Speaker 1: state win in nineteen eighty, Reagan won a narrow popular margin,

1590
01:32:42,880 --> 01:32:46,679
Speaker 1: a fifty point seven percent. Moreover, gallops valuable presidential poll

1591
01:32:46,720 --> 01:32:50,040
Speaker 1: tracker shows that Reagan's approvable ratings were significantly split along

1592
01:32:50,040 --> 01:32:53,400
Speaker 1: partisan lines after his nineteen eighty one inauguration, with seventy

1593
01:32:53,400 --> 01:32:56,880
Speaker 1: four percent Republican support and fifty three percent from independence,

1594
01:32:56,920 --> 01:32:59,800
Speaker 1: but thirty eight percent from Democrats. When Reagan came back

1595
01:32:59,840 --> 01:33:03,120
Speaker 1: to capital in April to push for his economic recovery act,

1596
01:33:03,280 --> 01:33:05,479
Speaker 1: he was greeted by a hero's welcome in a three

1597
01:33:05,520 --> 01:33:08,960
Speaker 1: minute standing ovation. He leveraged his political capital to help

1598
01:33:08,960 --> 01:33:11,559
Speaker 1: publish pass his agenda. Before the end of the summer,

1599
01:33:11,600 --> 01:33:14,040
Speaker 1: the Reagan tax cuts had passed the House of Representatives,

1600
01:33:14,160 --> 01:33:17,920
Speaker 1: led by Democratic speaker tip O'Neil, and the Republican controlled Senate.

1601
01:33:18,040 --> 01:33:21,959
Speaker 1: Reducing the top tax rates from a confiscatory and unleashing

1602
01:33:21,960 --> 01:33:29,320
Speaker 1: an entrepreneurial era. That's how CNN categorizes that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Um,

1603
01:33:29,439 --> 01:33:35,240
Speaker 1: and in Reagan wins forty nine states and the popular vote.

1604
01:33:35,240 --> 01:33:38,400
Speaker 1: It is very clear kind of how this happens and

1605
01:33:38,479 --> 01:33:42,000
Speaker 1: what this allows Reagan to do. It's fascinating because you

1606
01:33:42,040 --> 01:33:44,680
Speaker 1: have in Britain, like, less than a year later, right,

1607
01:33:45,479 --> 01:33:49,360
Speaker 1: we have Margaret Thatcher right like, who is similarly not

1608
01:33:49,439 --> 01:33:52,880
Speaker 1: doing very well, until she gets to go to war

1609
01:33:53,000 --> 01:33:55,080
Speaker 1: for two tiny little cold islands in the Atlantic and

1610
01:33:55,120 --> 01:33:58,080
Speaker 1: no one knew about before, and then they proceed to

1611
01:33:58,160 --> 01:34:02,360
Speaker 1: just ravage like the like post World War Two social

1612
01:34:02,400 --> 01:34:05,800
Speaker 1: democracy consense. Just suck it up and fucking here we are.

1613
01:34:05,960 --> 01:34:09,640
Speaker 1: Now here we are two and people are going I

1614
01:34:09,720 --> 01:34:12,800
Speaker 1: have called in Britain this winter. I will say in

1615
01:34:12,920 --> 01:34:15,160
Speaker 1: terms of just to be fair, one of the things

1616
01:34:15,240 --> 01:34:17,639
Speaker 1: people will say is a positive from this, is that

1617
01:34:18,080 --> 01:34:20,240
Speaker 1: this is one of the things that helps push the

1618
01:34:20,400 --> 01:34:23,920
Speaker 1: arms treaty deals with the Soviet Union, because Reagan is

1619
01:34:23,960 --> 01:34:27,080
Speaker 1: like God saved me for a reason, and maybe it's

1620
01:34:27,120 --> 01:34:29,960
Speaker 1: to make nuclear war less likely. That's a bigger topic

1621
01:34:30,000 --> 01:34:32,040
Speaker 1: than today. It's a thing that he will claim and

1622
01:34:32,439 --> 01:34:36,000
Speaker 1: generally speaking, the fact that the Soviet Union and Reagan

1623
01:34:36,320 --> 01:34:38,720
Speaker 1: started talking about nukes during this period is not a

1624
01:34:38,760 --> 01:34:44,360
Speaker 1: bad thing. Um. Always good to be talking about nukes, Um.

1625
01:34:44,400 --> 01:34:47,680
Speaker 1: But yeah, what I will say, if we're looking at

1626
01:34:47,760 --> 01:34:49,760
Speaker 1: kind of the only clearly good thing that came out

1627
01:34:49,760 --> 01:34:52,679
Speaker 1: of the shooting, it's the fact that the justice system

1628
01:34:52,800 --> 01:34:56,559
Speaker 1: actually worked in this one instance pretty much exactly how

1629
01:34:56,600 --> 01:34:59,759
Speaker 1: you would want it to. Hinckley was clearly not mentally

1630
01:34:59,760 --> 01:35:02,360
Speaker 1: comm potent to understand his actions, what he had done

1631
01:35:02,479 --> 01:35:05,280
Speaker 1: or to stand trial, and he was declared not guilty

1632
01:35:05,320 --> 01:35:09,639
Speaker 1: by reason of insanity. His father, tearful took blame for

1633
01:35:09,680 --> 01:35:12,720
Speaker 1: the shooting for cutting his son off from resources. The

1634
01:35:12,760 --> 01:35:16,240
Speaker 1: psychiatrist who had botched his diagnosis admitted his mistakes on

1635
01:35:16,280 --> 01:35:18,920
Speaker 1: the stand and expressed regret. Hinckley was sent to a

1636
01:35:18,920 --> 01:35:22,040
Speaker 1: psychiatric facility where he received decades of treatment, and the

1637
01:35:22,080 --> 01:35:25,240
Speaker 1: treatment seems to have really helped him. On December seventeen,

1638
01:35:25,360 --> 01:35:27,760
Speaker 1: two thousand three, a federal judge ruled that Hinckley was

1639
01:35:27,880 --> 01:35:31,040
Speaker 1: entitled to unsupervised visits with his parents. This is five

1640
01:35:31,120 --> 01:35:34,240
Speaker 1: years before his dad died, so they get time together again.

1641
01:35:34,720 --> 01:35:37,680
Speaker 1: In two thousand seven he has a request for unsupervised

1642
01:35:37,760 --> 01:35:40,360
Speaker 1: visits as long as one month. This is denied, not

1643
01:35:40,400 --> 01:35:42,719
Speaker 1: because of any problems but because of issues the hospital

1644
01:35:42,760 --> 01:35:45,880
Speaker 1: had not taken to prepare for the transition. In July

1645
01:35:45,920 --> 01:35:48,479
Speaker 1: of two thousand and sixteen, Judge Paul Friedman concluded that

1646
01:35:48,560 --> 01:35:50,920
Speaker 1: Hinckley did not pose a threat to himself or others

1647
01:35:50,960 --> 01:35:55,000
Speaker 1: and ordered him released. Um the conditions initially limited him

1648
01:35:55,040 --> 01:35:57,120
Speaker 1: to his residence, residence where he lived with his mother

1649
01:35:57,360 --> 01:36:00,519
Speaker 1: in parts of southern California. He was obviously bidden from

1650
01:36:00,560 --> 01:36:03,920
Speaker 1: contact with pastor president, presidents of the United States or

1651
01:36:03,960 --> 01:36:06,760
Speaker 1: any of their family members or graves from banning. He

1652
01:36:06,800 --> 01:36:09,520
Speaker 1: was banned from contact with Jodie foster or other entertainers.

1653
01:36:09,880 --> 01:36:13,200
Speaker 1: He was prohibited from watching violent movies, television or online media.

1654
01:36:13,760 --> 01:36:16,720
Speaker 1: In two thousand eighteen, a restriction confining him to his

1655
01:36:16,800 --> 01:36:19,720
Speaker 1: mother's house ended. He can now live anywhere he wants,

1656
01:36:19,800 --> 01:36:24,639
Speaker 1: with doctor's approval. Uh and on September one John Hinckley

1657
01:36:24,720 --> 01:36:28,519
Speaker 1: Jr age sixty six, was approved for unconditional release by

1658
01:36:28,600 --> 01:36:32,360
Speaker 1: district judge Paul Friedman. Friedman noted that, quote, very few

1659
01:36:32,400 --> 01:36:35,200
Speaker 1: patients at St Elizabeth's Hospital have been studied more thoroughly

1660
01:36:35,240 --> 01:36:38,680
Speaker 1: than John Hinkley and again that's pretty much how it

1661
01:36:38,720 --> 01:36:41,840
Speaker 1: auto work right, like, yeah, he shoots the president, but

1662
01:36:42,040 --> 01:36:46,679
Speaker 1: clearly because he's sick and you don't just punish sick

1663
01:36:46,720 --> 01:36:48,880
Speaker 1: people when they don't know what they've done. So he

1664
01:36:48,920 --> 01:36:53,840
Speaker 1: gets treated for decades until he's better and now he's able. Yes,

1665
01:36:54,120 --> 01:36:57,920
Speaker 1: it's really good. Quite surprising. It is very surprising, and

1666
01:36:57,960 --> 01:37:00,360
Speaker 1: part of why it's surprising is that one of the

1667
01:37:00,400 --> 01:37:04,479
Speaker 1: other negative lingering effects of John Hinckley attempting to shoot

1668
01:37:04,479 --> 01:37:06,920
Speaker 1: the president is that a lot of changes are made

1669
01:37:06,920 --> 01:37:08,840
Speaker 1: in many states to make it much less likely that

1670
01:37:08,880 --> 01:37:11,960
Speaker 1: people benefit from the same understanding judicial system that John

1671
01:37:12,000 --> 01:37:15,479
Speaker 1: Hinckley Jr does. Okay, I'm gonna quote now from a

1672
01:37:15,520 --> 01:37:17,640
Speaker 1: write up from famous trials DOT COM, which has a

1673
01:37:17,640 --> 01:37:21,280
Speaker 1: pretty good, pretty good bit on just kind of everything

1674
01:37:21,280 --> 01:37:23,320
Speaker 1: that happened here. It's a fair, pretty fair summary. I

1675
01:37:23,360 --> 01:37:25,800
Speaker 1: think within a month of the Hinckley verdict the House

1676
01:37:25,800 --> 01:37:28,519
Speaker 1: and Senate we're holding hearings on the insanity defense. A

1677
01:37:28,520 --> 01:37:31,400
Speaker 1: measure proposed by Senator Arlen Specter shifted the burden of

1678
01:37:31,400 --> 01:37:34,400
Speaker 1: proof of insanity to the defense. President Reagan expressed his

1679
01:37:34,439 --> 01:37:36,360
Speaker 1: support for the measure with the comment if you start

1680
01:37:36,400 --> 01:37:38,439
Speaker 1: thinking about even a lot of your friends, you would

1681
01:37:38,439 --> 01:37:40,439
Speaker 1: have to say, Gee, if I had to prove they

1682
01:37:40,439 --> 01:37:46,240
Speaker 1: were saying, I would have a hard job. Right. Tell

1683
01:37:46,400 --> 01:37:48,439
Speaker 1: us more about you that, which maybe that says a

1684
01:37:48,439 --> 01:37:51,639
Speaker 1: lot about your administration, who are, by the way, at

1685
01:37:51,680 --> 01:37:56,040
Speaker 1: this point, deep in like Iran, Contra, Shit, selling cocaine

1686
01:37:56,080 --> 01:37:57,840
Speaker 1: and in anyway. We were talking about all of this

1687
01:37:57,920 --> 01:38:00,439
Speaker 1: on an upcoming episode of bastards. But like, yeah, they're

1688
01:38:00,439 --> 01:38:04,400
Speaker 1: all monsters, joining con Congress and shifting the burden to proof.

1689
01:38:04,400 --> 01:38:06,360
Speaker 1: We're a number of states. Within three years after the

1690
01:38:06,400 --> 01:38:09,000
Speaker 1: Hinckley verdict, two thirds of the states placed the burden

1691
01:38:09,080 --> 01:38:12,080
Speaker 1: on the defense to prove insanity, while eight states adopted

1692
01:38:12,080 --> 01:38:15,519
Speaker 1: a separate verdict of guilty but mentally ill. In one state, Utah,

1693
01:38:15,560 --> 01:38:22,519
Speaker 1: abolished the defense altogether, always delivering. So the system works

1694
01:38:22,600 --> 01:38:29,559
Speaker 1: really well for John Hinckley Jr um ethically, I think

1695
01:38:29,640 --> 01:38:32,880
Speaker 1: the Justice Department of the United States this is maybe

1696
01:38:32,960 --> 01:38:35,160
Speaker 1: one of it. Probably in history you will not find

1697
01:38:35,200 --> 01:38:38,360
Speaker 1: many cases of a guy shooting an active world leader

1698
01:38:38,680 --> 01:38:42,679
Speaker 1: and being treated ethically by the justice system like he's

1699
01:38:42,760 --> 01:38:48,000
Speaker 1: handled very reasonably, I think, and never again, never and

1700
01:38:48,000 --> 01:38:50,120
Speaker 1: again will that happen for anybody, even if they don't

1701
01:38:50,120 --> 01:38:55,439
Speaker 1: shoot the president. So, Um, obviously I wish John Hinckley

1702
01:38:55,560 --> 01:39:01,000
Speaker 1: jr well. I I hope his musical career goes fine. Um,

1703
01:39:01,160 --> 01:39:07,280
Speaker 1: I fuck Ronald Reagan, Um hate him and UH yeah,

1704
01:39:07,320 --> 01:39:10,000
Speaker 1: it's probably made the world a lot worse that John

1705
01:39:10,040 --> 01:39:13,639
Speaker 1: Hinckley Jr tried to shoot Ronald Reagan, because it empowered

1706
01:39:13,720 --> 01:39:15,960
Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan. One of the lessons here, if we're talking

1707
01:39:16,000 --> 01:39:20,000
Speaker 1: about assassinations, is that, um, it's a real wild card

1708
01:39:20,520 --> 01:39:24,160
Speaker 1: trying to assassinate a president or any other politician. And

1709
01:39:24,200 --> 01:39:26,880
Speaker 1: as a general rule, people are kind of programmed to

1710
01:39:26,920 --> 01:39:30,000
Speaker 1: think that somebody's cool if they get shot and don't die,

1711
01:39:30,520 --> 01:39:32,519
Speaker 1: like it's one of the cooler things that like look

1712
01:39:32,560 --> 01:39:35,160
Speaker 1: it just objectively. It's what do you do if you

1713
01:39:35,160 --> 01:39:37,000
Speaker 1: want to show John Mcclain as hard as hell, you

1714
01:39:37,000 --> 01:39:38,559
Speaker 1: even get like hit in the arm or something and

1715
01:39:38,640 --> 01:39:41,479
Speaker 1: just like work through it, right, like what do people?

1716
01:39:41,560 --> 01:39:43,639
Speaker 1: People talk about like Teddy Roosevelt when he was shot

1717
01:39:43,640 --> 01:39:45,200
Speaker 1: and how bad it was that he gave it bad

1718
01:39:45,200 --> 01:39:46,960
Speaker 1: assid was that he gave a speech, or how cool

1719
01:39:47,000 --> 01:39:49,599
Speaker 1: it is that fucking Andrew Jackson, who they don't say

1720
01:39:49,600 --> 01:39:54,320
Speaker 1: any of these things. About is JFK that's right, is

1721
01:39:54,360 --> 01:39:59,880
Speaker 1: not cool. Not Cool, not over the roof of a church. Yeah,

1722
01:40:00,560 --> 01:40:05,120
Speaker 1: lame as hell, Um, but, like you know, this is

1723
01:40:05,160 --> 01:40:07,800
Speaker 1: the look. If, if you want John F Kennedy to

1724
01:40:07,840 --> 01:40:10,800
Speaker 1: stop being the president and you can successfully kill him,

1725
01:40:10,920 --> 01:40:13,920
Speaker 1: you will get what you want. He's no longer the president. Um,

1726
01:40:13,960 --> 01:40:17,280
Speaker 1: if you were to have a political motivation, and again,

1727
01:40:17,479 --> 01:40:21,720
Speaker 1: Hinkley doesn't Hinkley, it's not thinking about the top marginal

1728
01:40:21,840 --> 01:40:25,960
Speaker 1: tax rate when he does this. Um. But if you

1729
01:40:26,280 --> 01:40:28,879
Speaker 1: if that had been his goal, this is the opposite

1730
01:40:28,920 --> 01:40:31,320
Speaker 1: of that, right, because it just makes Reagan look cool

1731
01:40:31,520 --> 01:40:34,320
Speaker 1: and helps him, makes everybody feel like an asshole for

1732
01:40:34,400 --> 01:40:36,360
Speaker 1: fighting him for a while. So, like he gets a

1733
01:40:36,360 --> 01:40:40,200
Speaker 1: bunch of ship through and also a bunch of laws,

1734
01:40:40,240 --> 01:40:45,000
Speaker 1: get worse for mentally ill people and, on the whole, bad, bad,

1735
01:40:45,120 --> 01:40:50,679
Speaker 1: bad assassination. Zero, zero. Yeah, I have to say, based

1736
01:40:50,760 --> 01:40:54,040
Speaker 1: on based on the evidence we have here, shooting Ronald

1737
01:40:54,040 --> 01:40:57,200
Speaker 1: Reagan not a good idea. They didn't do it. Now

1738
01:40:58,040 --> 01:40:59,880
Speaker 1: let the whole team down and we should just plug

1739
01:40:59,920 --> 01:41:01,960
Speaker 1: his album. It's out on us. Best. We should plug

1740
01:41:02,000 --> 01:41:05,280
Speaker 1: his out because, again, he's not responsible for this. Yeah,

1741
01:41:05,439 --> 01:41:07,599
Speaker 1: you know, I think he's if he's happy singing songs,

1742
01:41:07,640 --> 01:41:10,680
Speaker 1: I'm happy for him. Yes, yes, I wish you the

1743
01:41:10,720 --> 01:41:13,439
Speaker 1: best of luck, John. You can buy his t shirts.

1744
01:41:13,439 --> 01:41:16,240
Speaker 1: He's got t shirts that he's trying to move, which

1745
01:41:16,479 --> 01:41:18,320
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't think it's bad to encourage

1746
01:41:18,320 --> 01:41:20,960
Speaker 1: his music career, like seriously, like we're all doing it

1747
01:41:21,000 --> 01:41:22,800
Speaker 1: with a little bit of a smile. But what's the

1748
01:41:22,800 --> 01:41:25,559
Speaker 1: harm if John Hickley Jr thinks that people like his music,

1749
01:41:25,600 --> 01:41:28,680
Speaker 1: that doesn't hurt anybody. And maybe if people can see that,

1750
01:41:28,800 --> 01:41:31,960
Speaker 1: like if you treat people with mental illnesses like people

1751
01:41:32,000 --> 01:41:35,519
Speaker 1: who are ill, not fucking terrible people, then they can

1752
01:41:35,600 --> 01:41:38,439
Speaker 1: get to a place where they can sing songs on Youtube.

1753
01:41:38,479 --> 01:41:42,080
Speaker 1: And yes, that's good. That's an example again of the

1754
01:41:42,120 --> 01:41:44,400
Speaker 1: only time it worked the way it's it's should, but

1755
01:41:44,479 --> 01:41:47,559
Speaker 1: it didn't work out pretty well in this case. Um,

1756
01:41:48,240 --> 01:41:54,240
Speaker 1: so I don't know. Yeah, take whatever lessons you want

1757
01:41:54,240 --> 01:41:58,800
Speaker 1: to out of this. Many, many possible things can be

1758
01:41:58,800 --> 01:42:01,320
Speaker 1: a lot enough, a lot of different lessons we can

1759
01:42:01,360 --> 01:42:04,840
Speaker 1: take out of this. Don't Hire Al Hague, but I

1760
01:42:04,880 --> 01:42:09,639
Speaker 1: feel like that's that's a generally good lesson. Yeah, there's

1761
01:42:09,640 --> 01:42:12,680
Speaker 1: a Phoenix Punch Bang called Jody Foster's army. I've just

1762
01:42:12,720 --> 01:42:16,599
Speaker 1: read as well, who makes songs about him. Great by

1763
01:42:16,600 --> 01:42:21,439
Speaker 1: their records too. Fine. Yes, no strong opinions on that

1764
01:42:21,520 --> 01:42:24,080
Speaker 1: either way. Anyone else got anything to say about John

1765
01:42:24,160 --> 01:42:31,400
Speaker 1: Hinckley JR or the assassination attempt on Ronnie Raw Hide Reagan? Also,

1766
01:42:31,479 --> 01:42:33,320
Speaker 1: we're talking about the I R a a lot this week.

1767
01:42:33,439 --> 01:42:36,120
Speaker 1: Probably not for nothing that Joe Biden's code name is

1768
01:42:36,200 --> 01:42:43,280
Speaker 1: Celtic M M and the Queen Dies now makes you

1769
01:42:43,360 --> 01:42:47,839
Speaker 1: think you're telling me it's a coincidence. I still suspects trust. Personally.

1770
01:42:48,600 --> 01:42:51,360
Speaker 1: I think that maybe Joe Biden shook hands with Liz

1771
01:42:51,400 --> 01:42:56,559
Speaker 1: trust and like like, transferred a nerve poison onto her

1772
01:42:56,560 --> 01:43:01,400
Speaker 1: hand and then she touched the queen. Definitely possible. Sipping

1773
01:43:01,439 --> 01:43:03,679
Speaker 1: again us on the plane back. No one that he's

1774
01:43:03,720 --> 01:43:09,600
Speaker 1: done his job in his Batta clava and spectably post one. Anyway.

1775
01:43:10,240 --> 01:43:14,080
Speaker 1: Hopefully nobody who has stuff going on listens to that

1776
01:43:14,160 --> 01:43:17,080
Speaker 1: and takes the wrong message out of it. Yeah, he

1777
01:43:17,840 --> 01:43:33,120
Speaker 1: kind to one another anyway. We're done. Prime Minister Abe

1778
01:43:33,360 --> 01:43:36,559
Speaker 1: was a champion of democracy and a firm believer that

1779
01:43:36,600 --> 01:43:41,400
Speaker 1: no economy, society or country can achieve its full potential

1780
01:43:41,439 --> 01:43:45,400
Speaker 1: if women are left behind. I am shocked and devastated

1781
01:43:45,439 --> 01:43:49,400
Speaker 1: by his assassination. A loss for Japan and our world.

1782
01:43:50,240 --> 01:43:59,679
Speaker 1: J K. This is assassination week. WHO's assassinating my ex

1783
01:44:00,160 --> 01:44:04,639
Speaker 1: x former prime minister of Japan? It's it's assassination week.

1784
01:44:04,760 --> 01:44:08,519
Speaker 1: It is, it is. I I would kind of, I

1785
01:44:08,560 --> 01:44:12,080
Speaker 1: would somewhat ving gloriously argue the capstone of assassination week.

1786
01:44:12,200 --> 01:44:15,439
Speaker 1: It is the episode about the assassination that started it

1787
01:44:15,479 --> 01:44:18,120
Speaker 1: at all Um, and by by that I mean we are,

1788
01:44:18,160 --> 01:44:21,559
Speaker 1: we are, we're here talking about the assassination of one

1789
01:44:21,640 --> 01:44:25,519
Speaker 1: Shinzo Abe Um. This is this is going to be

1790
01:44:25,560 --> 01:44:29,960
Speaker 1: a slightly different episode, both to the rusty assassination week

1791
01:44:30,000 --> 01:44:32,519
Speaker 1: episodes and to the other episode we did on the

1792
01:44:32,520 --> 01:44:40,439
Speaker 1: assassinations of Abbe Um, partly because, basically the day after,

1793
01:44:40,880 --> 01:44:44,479
Speaker 1: within within about two days of the our episode, original

1794
01:44:44,520 --> 01:44:49,440
Speaker 1: episode about the Abbe assassination dropping, Um, there was confirmation

1795
01:44:49,800 --> 01:44:52,479
Speaker 1: that the reason abbe was killed was because of his

1796
01:44:52,520 --> 01:44:56,160
Speaker 1: connection to an organization called the Unification Church, which is,

1797
01:44:56,240 --> 01:44:59,120
Speaker 1: I think, better loloquially known as the Mooneyes Um. People

1798
01:45:00,120 --> 01:45:02,880
Speaker 1: might have listened to the very, very long episode I

1799
01:45:02,960 --> 01:45:07,920
Speaker 1: did about it. But yeah, there is, there is an

1800
01:45:08,000 --> 01:45:14,120
Speaker 1: enormous amount going on there, and this is something that fortunately,

1801
01:45:14,160 --> 01:45:18,160
Speaker 1: we have experts for. And Yeah, so, so joining us

1802
01:45:18,200 --> 01:45:24,439
Speaker 1: to talk about this assassination and the moonies and sort of,

1803
01:45:24,560 --> 01:45:26,639
Speaker 1: I don't know, the sort of weirdness and the horror

1804
01:45:26,720 --> 01:45:31,000
Speaker 1: around everything that's been happening around this assassination is anti

1805
01:45:31,000 --> 01:45:36,479
Speaker 1: fascist researcher Elisam as you yeah, Alisa's a anti fascist

1806
01:45:36,560 --> 01:45:41,160
Speaker 1: researcher specializing in cults, WHO's working with deprogramming imperialism, which

1807
01:45:41,200 --> 01:45:43,360
Speaker 1: is a collective of ex moonies who've been documenting just

1808
01:45:43,439 --> 01:45:46,519
Speaker 1: sort of all of the ship the moonies have been

1809
01:45:46,560 --> 01:45:49,760
Speaker 1: getting up to and trying to get more awareness of

1810
01:45:50,479 --> 01:45:56,559
Speaker 1: really just incredible array of awful stuff that they've been doing. Yeah, so, alsa,

1811
01:45:56,800 --> 01:45:59,560
Speaker 1: welcome to the show. Hi, thanks for having me. I

1812
01:45:59,640 --> 01:46:01,519
Speaker 1: really apreciate it. Yeah, and thank you. Thank you so

1813
01:46:01,600 --> 01:46:03,479
Speaker 1: much for joining us for this. I don't know why

1814
01:46:03,479 --> 01:46:05,599
Speaker 1: I'm saying us, as if if there's someone other than

1815
01:46:05,840 --> 01:46:08,679
Speaker 1: of this episode and You, but you know, old old

1816
01:46:08,680 --> 01:46:10,760
Speaker 1: habits die hard, I guess. I guess I've inherited the

1817
01:46:10,840 --> 01:46:13,880
Speaker 1: royal we which is not great. Oh well, so someone

1818
01:46:13,920 --> 01:46:19,120
Speaker 1: will have to assassinate me soon. That's fine. Sometimes it happens.

1819
01:46:19,160 --> 01:46:22,920
Speaker 1: I hope it doesn't happen to you, though. That would

1820
01:46:22,920 --> 01:46:30,639
Speaker 1: not be the best assassination target, honestly. Yeah, so, okay,

1821
01:46:30,680 --> 01:46:34,479
Speaker 1: I guess the place I think we should start is

1822
01:46:34,560 --> 01:46:39,680
Speaker 1: talking about what we've found out about this assassin in

1823
01:46:39,760 --> 01:46:42,799
Speaker 1: the last sort of a few months since this happened,

1824
01:46:42,920 --> 01:46:47,280
Speaker 1: which is that when when the initial police reports came out,

1825
01:46:47,920 --> 01:46:52,559
Speaker 1: there was a bunch of very, very murky stuff about basically,

1826
01:46:52,600 --> 01:46:54,559
Speaker 1: the police were like this wasn't a political killing, it

1827
01:46:54,640 --> 01:46:58,479
Speaker 1: was about some organization, and I think me and you

1828
01:46:58,640 --> 01:47:01,200
Speaker 1: and every single other person was like even testentially where

1829
01:47:01,200 --> 01:47:04,360
Speaker 1: of Japanese politics. saw them say like an organization and

1830
01:47:04,520 --> 01:47:06,080
Speaker 1: was like, oh no, there's like a one in three

1831
01:47:06,160 --> 01:47:09,360
Speaker 1: chances of the Boodhi's. Yeah, that's yeah. I saw like

1832
01:47:09,600 --> 01:47:12,200
Speaker 1: when they said something about like organization or religious organization.

1833
01:47:12,280 --> 01:47:22,240
Speaker 1: I was like yeah, it was like that probably is. Yeah, yeah,

1834
01:47:22,360 --> 01:47:25,479
Speaker 1: and it turns out that okay. So the assassin is

1835
01:47:25,520 --> 01:47:32,840
Speaker 1: a man named Tetsuya Yamagami, who was a navy veteran. Um. Yeah,

1836
01:47:33,120 --> 01:47:37,559
Speaker 1: made a a series of unbelievably based and incredibly wild

1837
01:47:37,640 --> 01:47:41,400
Speaker 1: firearms with which she assassinated the form per minister of Japan.

1838
01:47:41,560 --> 01:47:44,320
Speaker 1: What we've learned since then is that the reason he

1839
01:47:44,400 --> 01:47:49,320
Speaker 1: did this was that his basically, like his family and

1840
01:47:49,439 --> 01:47:54,120
Speaker 1: his life were completely destroyed by his mom falling into

1841
01:47:54,160 --> 01:47:59,080
Speaker 1: this colts and by her I mean she, she, she,

1842
01:47:59,080 --> 01:48:02,080
Speaker 1: she gave this Holt set like something like seven hundred

1843
01:48:02,120 --> 01:48:07,920
Speaker 1: thousand dollars. Yeah, like roughly seven U S dollars. Yeah,

1844
01:48:08,120 --> 01:48:11,880
Speaker 1: like literal, like like multiple fortunes, like she, she, she

1845
01:48:11,960 --> 01:48:14,120
Speaker 1: gave them all of her money and then she sold

1846
01:48:14,200 --> 01:48:18,160
Speaker 1: the company that like she had been running to give

1847
01:48:18,200 --> 01:48:23,639
Speaker 1: them more money. And Yeah, what? What? What, basically, as

1848
01:48:23,680 --> 01:48:26,400
Speaker 1: best we can tell, has happened was that he was

1849
01:48:26,479 --> 01:48:30,040
Speaker 1: he was looking at a way to like get back

1850
01:48:30,080 --> 01:48:34,559
Speaker 1: at the boonies Um. And basically the problem was he okay,

1851
01:48:34,600 --> 01:48:36,559
Speaker 1: so if he didn't want to kill civilians, which I

1852
01:48:36,560 --> 01:48:38,639
Speaker 1: think is admirable, and he couldn't figure out a way

1853
01:48:38,760 --> 01:48:42,000
Speaker 1: to like get at any of the like individual church leaders,

1854
01:48:42,880 --> 01:48:45,880
Speaker 1: and so he's the thing he decided to do was

1855
01:48:45,920 --> 01:48:48,240
Speaker 1: go after sins Abe because, as we're gonna get to

1856
01:48:48,400 --> 01:48:52,439
Speaker 1: in a in a bit, Enzo Abbey lots of connections

1857
01:48:52,439 --> 01:48:55,559
Speaker 1: with the Unification Church, a thing that all of the

1858
01:48:55,560 --> 01:48:59,760
Speaker 1: people like writing glowing obituaries about him just like in

1859
01:49:00,080 --> 01:49:03,960
Speaker 1: edibly don't want to mention. Yeah, it's been left out

1860
01:49:03,960 --> 01:49:09,280
Speaker 1: of a lot of ship yeah, and okay, so I

1861
01:49:09,320 --> 01:49:16,200
Speaker 1: guess to back up a little bit, Um, can for

1862
01:49:16,360 --> 01:49:18,360
Speaker 1: for for people who sort of don't know what this is,

1863
01:49:18,520 --> 01:49:21,559
Speaker 1: or for people who like, may have heard of Aberty,

1864
01:49:21,600 --> 01:49:26,120
Speaker 1: to refresher, can you talk a bit about what? What? What?

1865
01:49:26,120 --> 01:49:30,240
Speaker 1: What the Unification Church actually is? And Yeah, we can.

1866
01:49:30,240 --> 01:49:33,320
Speaker 1: We can sort of go from there. Yeah, definitely. Okay.

1867
01:49:33,360 --> 01:49:36,040
Speaker 1: So the Unification Church, or the Moonys, uh, they are

1868
01:49:36,280 --> 01:49:40,280
Speaker 1: a quote unquote, new religious movement or pretty much a

1869
01:49:40,360 --> 01:49:44,400
Speaker 1: cult you know, they're very culty and they're a cult Um,

1870
01:49:44,479 --> 01:49:47,880
Speaker 1: and they were started by some young moon who was

1871
01:49:47,960 --> 01:49:53,120
Speaker 1: originally from what is now North Korea. Uh. And so basically,

1872
01:49:53,200 --> 01:49:57,720
Speaker 1: this guy, he claims he's the Messiah, has this originally

1873
01:49:57,800 --> 01:50:00,920
Speaker 1: it started out as like a sex cult Um, under

1874
01:50:01,200 --> 01:50:05,599
Speaker 1: a practice called, I think, Picarum, which is basically, uh,

1875
01:50:06,120 --> 01:50:11,440
Speaker 1: he was supposed to h quote unquote, clans a woman's

1876
01:50:11,640 --> 01:50:14,840
Speaker 1: like relationship to God by having sex with her. So

1877
01:50:14,920 --> 01:50:20,160
Speaker 1: he assaulted a number of people doing this stuff. Um,

1878
01:50:20,320 --> 01:50:22,400
Speaker 1: and the church over the years has sort of like

1879
01:50:22,479 --> 01:50:31,240
Speaker 1: developed into more of a multinational corporation. Uh, and political movement. Uh.

1880
01:50:31,320 --> 01:50:33,439
Speaker 1: And it has a lot of tools, I mean a

1881
01:50:33,439 --> 01:50:37,280
Speaker 1: lot of ties and connections to various governments around the world,

1882
01:50:37,320 --> 01:50:40,600
Speaker 1: including Japan. Um. And it's basically, at the end of

1883
01:50:40,600 --> 01:50:43,360
Speaker 1: the day, a tool of United States imperialism. Um, there's

1884
01:50:43,360 --> 01:50:50,040
Speaker 1: some pretty pretty direct ties to like the Korean CIA, yeah,

1885
01:50:50,200 --> 01:50:53,840
Speaker 1: as well as the U S C I. A. Um. So, yeah,

1886
01:50:53,960 --> 01:50:57,960
Speaker 1: it's like this big umbrella of like groups, different NGOs,

1887
01:50:58,080 --> 01:51:03,240
Speaker 1: different like businesses, a bunch. It's just a whole conglomeration

1888
01:51:03,280 --> 01:51:08,960
Speaker 1: of things, right, Um, but very, extremely virulently anti Communist. Uh. And,

1889
01:51:09,920 --> 01:51:13,800
Speaker 1: you know, involved in some of some of the greatest

1890
01:51:13,880 --> 01:51:21,800
Speaker 1: hits of the last century, like Iran, Contra. Yeah, for us.

1891
01:51:22,400 --> 01:51:24,120
Speaker 1: And when? When? When? When? We say involved in a

1892
01:51:24,200 --> 01:51:26,360
Speaker 1: rand contract? Like, okay, there's lots of people who are like,

1893
01:51:26,400 --> 01:51:29,360
Speaker 1: sort of involved in a rand contract. The movies. Like there.

1894
01:51:29,400 --> 01:51:31,400
Speaker 1: There is a decent there you can do. You can

1895
01:51:31,439 --> 01:51:34,320
Speaker 1: make the argument that if the movie's had not been

1896
01:51:34,479 --> 01:51:37,040
Speaker 1: doing what they were doing in Nicaragua, around Contra, wouldn't

1897
01:51:37,040 --> 01:51:38,960
Speaker 1: have been able to happen because the civil war would

1898
01:51:38,960 --> 01:51:42,519
Speaker 1: have ended like they like. When? When? When I say like?

1899
01:51:42,520 --> 01:51:44,400
Speaker 1: When we say like, like they were involved in the

1900
01:51:44,479 --> 01:51:47,000
Speaker 1: rand contract. Like they are like on the ground giving

1901
01:51:47,000 --> 01:51:49,880
Speaker 1: people guns and money and keeping like literally literally keeping

1902
01:51:49,920 --> 01:51:52,639
Speaker 1: guerrilla organizations and like terrorist groups like in the war,

1903
01:51:53,040 --> 01:51:55,120
Speaker 1: who wouldn't have been able to otherwise. Yeah, and then,

1904
01:51:55,120 --> 01:51:56,920
Speaker 1: and then also, and that's that's the thing, like they

1905
01:51:56,920 --> 01:51:59,680
Speaker 1: did to around contrast, right, because they did. They did

1906
01:51:59,680 --> 01:52:01,559
Speaker 1: the second around contract with like with you know, when

1907
01:52:01,600 --> 01:52:04,040
Speaker 1: the CIA actually got money, but they were also doing

1908
01:52:04,080 --> 01:52:06,640
Speaker 1: the same thing like before that, when they in the

1909
01:52:06,680 --> 01:52:08,679
Speaker 1: sort of stop gap period with the CIA, wasn't able

1910
01:52:08,720 --> 01:52:12,320
Speaker 1: to fund the contrast. So, yeah, these guys are route

1911
01:52:12,360 --> 01:52:18,280
Speaker 1: for that money. And Yeah, so it's yeah, they're very,

1912
01:52:18,400 --> 01:52:21,400
Speaker 1: very heavily involved. Like basically anywhere there was an anti

1913
01:52:21,400 --> 01:52:24,600
Speaker 1: communists squad like in the world, you can find the

1914
01:52:24,600 --> 01:52:29,559
Speaker 1: bodies funding in although, okay, I wasn't, weirdly, the only one.

1915
01:52:29,600 --> 01:52:31,719
Speaker 1: I the only one I haven't directly been able to find.

1916
01:52:31,880 --> 01:52:35,679
Speaker 1: Is I haven't been able to directly find any evidence

1917
01:52:35,680 --> 01:52:39,160
Speaker 1: that they were like that. Like specifically they were helping Pinot,

1918
01:52:39,240 --> 01:52:44,720
Speaker 1: like helping PJ. Okay, they were involved in Operation Condor

1919
01:52:45,120 --> 01:52:47,120
Speaker 1: and they were like doing ship with that. I haven't

1920
01:52:47,120 --> 01:52:50,240
Speaker 1: found evidence they like directly had any conversations with Pinochet,

1921
01:52:50,280 --> 01:52:52,160
Speaker 1: but that's like he's like the the only person you

1922
01:52:52,160 --> 01:52:54,760
Speaker 1: can say that about. And they probably did at some point,

1923
01:52:54,840 --> 01:52:56,680
Speaker 1: like but, you know, like a frail straws. Yeah, like

1924
01:52:56,720 --> 01:52:58,280
Speaker 1: they probably did. Like, I mean again, like they were,

1925
01:52:58,120 --> 01:53:00,680
Speaker 1: they were there with a frail strawsner. They were they with, Um,

1926
01:53:00,720 --> 01:53:04,479
Speaker 1: what was that guy's name? UH, Claus Barbie, the cocaine

1927
01:53:04,560 --> 01:53:06,840
Speaker 1: K yeah, yeah, I can't, I can't. I can't remember that,

1928
01:53:07,160 --> 01:53:09,160
Speaker 1: the name of the guy. Yeah, there was. There was

1929
01:53:09,200 --> 01:53:10,560
Speaker 1: a guy, and believe you, who got installed for like

1930
01:53:10,600 --> 01:53:14,640
Speaker 1: a year, that he got couped right now. Um, yeah, no,

1931
01:53:14,720 --> 01:53:16,800
Speaker 1: I I know who you're talking about, but I'm also

1932
01:53:16,840 --> 01:53:19,920
Speaker 1: forgetting his name at the moment. It's funny because he's

1933
01:53:20,000 --> 01:53:22,680
Speaker 1: he's one of these guys where it's like, you know,

1934
01:53:22,800 --> 01:53:25,479
Speaker 1: I had a professor, I took I took a Syrian

1935
01:53:25,520 --> 01:53:29,800
Speaker 1: history class in college, right and Um, there I think

1936
01:53:29,840 --> 01:53:31,840
Speaker 1: it's I really should, if I was saying that, I

1937
01:53:31,880 --> 01:53:34,320
Speaker 1: really should know the year. But there there's a year

1938
01:53:34,479 --> 01:53:37,400
Speaker 1: in like the fifties in Syria where there's like four

1939
01:53:37,479 --> 01:53:40,559
Speaker 1: cups in one year and there were like two guys

1940
01:53:40,680 --> 01:53:43,240
Speaker 1: who were, technically speaking, like had controller. serially. He was

1941
01:53:43,240 --> 01:53:44,519
Speaker 1: like I'm just not even telling you these guys names

1942
01:53:44,520 --> 01:53:47,080
Speaker 1: because they get overthrown him like two months and like

1943
01:53:47,120 --> 01:53:52,160
Speaker 1: that's that's that's this guy. Yeah, yeah, but, yeah, this

1944
01:53:52,240 --> 01:53:57,160
Speaker 1: is a very sort of very serious and deeply scary

1945
01:53:57,360 --> 01:54:03,720
Speaker 1: like death squad funding machine. Yeah, and that, you know,

1946
01:54:03,760 --> 01:54:12,519
Speaker 1: has continued to today pretty much. So, yeah, and okay,

1947
01:54:13,160 --> 01:54:15,680
Speaker 1: I think like yeah, so, yeah, there's sort of the

1948
01:54:15,720 --> 01:54:17,560
Speaker 1: desk quard side of it. Um, the other thing I

1949
01:54:17,600 --> 01:54:22,360
Speaker 1: wanted to ask you about is about like what it's

1950
01:54:22,439 --> 01:54:25,160
Speaker 1: like being in the church and what it's like sort

1951
01:54:25,200 --> 01:54:30,360
Speaker 1: of I don't know, because I think, I think a

1952
01:54:30,360 --> 01:54:34,000
Speaker 1: big part of of what's happening with this story is

1953
01:54:34,160 --> 01:54:40,160
Speaker 1: tattoo a Yamagami like basically watching his family get sucked

1954
01:54:40,200 --> 01:54:43,440
Speaker 1: in and not being able to do anything about it.

1955
01:54:43,480 --> 01:54:45,120
Speaker 1: And I was wondering if you could talk a bit

1956
01:54:45,160 --> 01:54:48,440
Speaker 1: about yeah, I mean sort of like what, what? What? What?

1957
01:54:48,440 --> 01:54:50,720
Speaker 1: What it's like being in the church and then what

1958
01:54:50,840 --> 01:54:58,720
Speaker 1: it's like just sort of watching it destroy people. Yeah, so, Um,

1959
01:54:58,760 --> 01:55:01,120
Speaker 1: I was born and raised in the church. I left

1960
01:55:01,120 --> 01:55:04,920
Speaker 1: when I was around seventeen. It was not it was

1961
01:55:04,960 --> 01:55:09,240
Speaker 1: not nice. Um, pretty much everybody I talked to who

1962
01:55:09,360 --> 01:55:14,480
Speaker 1: is also left feels the burden of this like perfect

1963
01:55:14,480 --> 01:55:19,400
Speaker 1: abuse that we had to endure. Um, it was a

1964
01:55:19,400 --> 01:55:26,080
Speaker 1: bleak time for me. Uh, you know, there's just so

1965
01:55:26,160 --> 01:55:30,560
Speaker 1: much pressure put on members to follow leadership, to do

1966
01:55:31,440 --> 01:55:35,560
Speaker 1: out outrageous amounts of fundraising. They have a bunch of

1967
01:55:35,560 --> 01:55:38,600
Speaker 1: these fundraising teams, right, and they'll they'll go out and

1968
01:55:38,640 --> 01:55:42,400
Speaker 1: they'll sell things and live in a van, occasionally stopping

1969
01:55:42,440 --> 01:55:47,840
Speaker 1: at like different church centers. Um Too like, uh, you know,

1970
01:55:47,960 --> 01:55:51,560
Speaker 1: sleep for the night or whatever. They don't eat well, UH,

1971
01:55:51,680 --> 01:55:54,320
Speaker 1: they don't get enough sleep, you know, like you're constantly

1972
01:55:54,320 --> 01:55:59,400
Speaker 1: around other people, basically like all all of the methods

1973
01:55:59,400 --> 01:56:03,680
Speaker 1: of cycleogical torture you can do on a person, right, Um,

1974
01:56:03,760 --> 01:56:07,360
Speaker 1: which was, you know, pretty standard throughout the whole movement. Um,

1975
01:56:07,560 --> 01:56:09,000
Speaker 1: I was lucky enough not to go on any of

1976
01:56:09,000 --> 01:56:13,240
Speaker 1: these fundraising teams because I left before Um, that could happen.

1977
01:56:14,280 --> 01:56:18,520
Speaker 1: But Um, I still, you know, definitely feel like the psychological,

1978
01:56:19,280 --> 01:56:21,600
Speaker 1: you know, fallout from that and it's something I'll be

1979
01:56:21,600 --> 01:56:26,600
Speaker 1: healing with, healing from for the rest of my life. Um. Yeah, so,

1980
01:56:26,680 --> 01:56:29,720
Speaker 1: like there's there's like no accountability for leadership. They can

1981
01:56:29,720 --> 01:56:32,040
Speaker 1: do whatever they want, but everybody else in the church

1982
01:56:32,080 --> 01:56:37,680
Speaker 1: you know, uh, has to follow what moon and the

1983
01:56:37,760 --> 01:56:42,520
Speaker 1: regional or national leadership says, or the the thirty six

1984
01:56:42,560 --> 01:56:46,560
Speaker 1: blessed couples who are like some of men's original followers. Uh.

1985
01:56:46,920 --> 01:56:50,120
Speaker 1: There's it's like extremely hierarchical. UH, there's a lot of

1986
01:56:50,240 --> 01:56:54,120
Speaker 1: racism within the group, a huge amount of sexism that

1987
01:56:54,280 --> 01:56:57,920
Speaker 1: is like, you know, directly tied into their Um, their

1988
01:56:57,960 --> 01:57:02,640
Speaker 1: belief system, because the fall of man, according to the Moonies,

1989
01:57:02,720 --> 01:57:06,040
Speaker 1: was eve having sex with Satan and then having sex

1990
01:57:06,120 --> 01:57:11,680
Speaker 1: with Um Adam and spreading that thin. Um. So just

1991
01:57:11,760 --> 01:57:17,160
Speaker 1: like very inherently misogynistic, extremely homophobic and transphobic movement just

1992
01:57:17,240 --> 01:57:19,840
Speaker 1: all around, like so much sexual repression, like you're not

1993
01:57:19,840 --> 01:57:23,360
Speaker 1: supposed to hold hands, kiss, do anything before marriage, right,

1994
01:57:23,680 --> 01:57:26,640
Speaker 1: and then it's only that person. Well, of course moon,

1995
01:57:26,760 --> 01:57:29,280
Speaker 1: you know, didn't didn't like this. Didn't apply to him

1996
01:57:29,280 --> 01:57:34,840
Speaker 1: at all. He could sleep with anybody's wife pretty much. Um. So, yeah,

1997
01:57:35,000 --> 01:57:39,800
Speaker 1: it was just altogether a very intense environment, just so

1998
01:57:39,880 --> 01:57:44,000
Speaker 1: much indoctrination going into the heads of the people who

1999
01:57:44,040 --> 01:57:51,640
Speaker 1: are part of it. Um. Yeah, just altogether shitty group. Um. Yeah.

2000
01:57:51,680 --> 01:57:53,480
Speaker 1: So for me, I I went away to school in

2001
01:57:53,520 --> 01:57:56,760
Speaker 1: another state when I was fourteen. Um, it got me like,

2002
01:57:56,800 --> 01:57:58,640
Speaker 1: you know, the physical distance, as well as like the

2003
01:57:58,680 --> 01:58:02,360
Speaker 1: space and time to actually think and reflect on what

2004
01:58:02,400 --> 01:58:04,720
Speaker 1: was going on. And then I started doing some research

2005
01:58:04,720 --> 01:58:06,960
Speaker 1: online because I was like, well, maybe what people are

2006
01:58:07,040 --> 01:58:10,000
Speaker 1: saying about it is true, maybe it is a cult Um.

2007
01:58:10,040 --> 01:58:12,760
Speaker 1: And I came across this, the tragedy of the six Mary's,

2008
01:58:12,800 --> 01:58:17,080
Speaker 1: which was, you know, Moon assaulting a bunch of women, uh,

2009
01:58:17,160 --> 01:58:21,200
Speaker 1: and that sort of like made me just, you know,

2010
01:58:22,120 --> 01:58:23,640
Speaker 1: it sort of brought it to a head because I

2011
01:58:23,640 --> 01:58:26,160
Speaker 1: had like, you know, seen for the longest time how

2012
01:58:26,240 --> 01:58:28,920
Speaker 1: leadership was treated versus how regular members had to live

2013
01:58:28,960 --> 01:58:32,360
Speaker 1: in like poverty, Um, but they got like big mansions

2014
01:58:32,400 --> 01:58:36,960
Speaker 1: and like nice things, Nice cars, expensive watches, but everybody

2015
01:58:36,960 --> 01:58:38,840
Speaker 1: else had to like give all their money to the church.

2016
01:58:39,000 --> 01:58:45,040
Speaker 1: And you know, was were like terrorized, Um. and Uh

2017
01:58:45,120 --> 01:58:48,320
Speaker 1: then eventually I was like I think I have to go.

2018
01:58:48,640 --> 01:58:52,440
Speaker 1: I like I had been through the process of like

2019
01:58:52,560 --> 01:58:56,080
Speaker 1: meeting the mystical or the the evil, other which, you know,

2020
01:58:56,440 --> 01:58:59,160
Speaker 1: like people outside of the church, or you know, they're

2021
01:58:59,240 --> 01:59:02,320
Speaker 1: fallen there, like, you know, basically they have original sin,

2022
01:59:02,480 --> 01:59:05,880
Speaker 1: so they're kind of evil, right. Um, and gotten to

2023
01:59:05,920 --> 01:59:08,920
Speaker 1: know more people, Um, queer people who were just like

2024
01:59:08,960 --> 01:59:13,560
Speaker 1: a hugely demonized group of people within the UC. Um,

2025
01:59:13,600 --> 01:59:16,760
Speaker 1: and here I am today. I'm Super Queer. Um, but

2026
01:59:16,880 --> 01:59:20,720
Speaker 1: like that, like Kelly. Yeah, but like getting to know

2027
01:59:20,800 --> 01:59:22,760
Speaker 1: people and actually seeing, you know, like, Oh my God,

2028
01:59:22,760 --> 01:59:25,520
Speaker 1: what they're saying. These people are not evil, they're normal,

2029
01:59:25,760 --> 01:59:30,560
Speaker 1: they're human, they are just different from straight people. I

2030
01:59:30,600 --> 01:59:33,040
Speaker 1: don't know. Uh. That to me also made like a

2031
01:59:33,080 --> 01:59:35,960
Speaker 1: huge difference. Um. And then when I was seventeen, I

2032
01:59:36,000 --> 01:59:38,040
Speaker 1: went to another school and I was like, I want

2033
01:59:38,040 --> 01:59:41,800
Speaker 1: to get laid. I've had a lost this. So I

2034
01:59:41,840 --> 01:59:44,120
Speaker 1: went out and did that and that felt like, you know,

2035
01:59:44,160 --> 01:59:46,520
Speaker 1: once I finally lost my virginity, it felt like sealing

2036
01:59:46,520 --> 01:59:47,960
Speaker 1: the deal. I'm like if I have to go to

2037
01:59:48,000 --> 01:59:51,040
Speaker 1: hell now, okay, and it was cool because God didn't

2038
01:59:51,360 --> 01:59:54,720
Speaker 1: like immediately smite me where I where I was in

2039
01:59:54,800 --> 01:59:58,760
Speaker 1: bed at that point, like I lived and I'm here

2040
01:59:58,800 --> 02:00:05,200
Speaker 1: to tell the tale. So so, yeah, that's how I left.

2041
02:00:08,880 --> 02:00:17,240
Speaker 1: That rules. This is much more gay of the story

2042
02:00:17,320 --> 02:00:19,120
Speaker 1: when I was expecting, which is all, which is always

2043
02:00:19,120 --> 02:00:23,080
Speaker 1: a good thing. Yeah, it reminds me a lot of

2044
02:00:23,120 --> 02:00:26,240
Speaker 1: like the stories of sort of like people leaving like

2045
02:00:26,360 --> 02:00:29,880
Speaker 1: the really right wing, like Evangelical, was like a lot

2046
02:00:29,920 --> 02:00:33,440
Speaker 1: of reminds me a quiverful but like, yeah, more intense,

2047
02:00:33,640 --> 02:00:35,560
Speaker 1: I think. Well, it's like I think like like the

2048
02:00:36,200 --> 02:00:43,920
Speaker 1: level of I don't know, I guess the level of separation. Yeah, yeah,

2049
02:00:44,520 --> 02:00:47,200
Speaker 1: they seem to be at least sort of like integrated

2050
02:00:47,240 --> 02:00:51,760
Speaker 1: into like other communities and stuff, whereas the Moonies, I

2051
02:00:51,800 --> 02:00:54,879
Speaker 1: don't know, like there's definitely like people have friends outside

2052
02:00:54,880 --> 02:00:57,440
Speaker 1: of it, but like generally, like people kind of keep

2053
02:00:57,480 --> 02:00:59,840
Speaker 1: to the moonies because, you know, they're supposed to be

2054
02:01:00,040 --> 02:01:03,280
Speaker 1: like God's chosen people or whatever. So they and they

2055
02:01:03,360 --> 02:01:05,600
Speaker 1: like look down on everyone else because they're not moonies.

2056
02:01:06,000 --> 02:01:10,840
Speaker 1: So yeah, it is. It's also interesting to me that

2057
02:01:10,880 --> 02:01:14,480
Speaker 1: like literally literally the term is just the evil other,

2058
02:01:15,440 --> 02:01:18,320
Speaker 1: which is so I don't think that's a literal term,

2059
02:01:18,400 --> 02:01:20,600
Speaker 1: but like that's how I sort of phrase it or whatever.

2060
02:01:20,680 --> 02:01:24,600
Speaker 1: But yeah, or just like fallen people would be, or

2061
02:01:24,640 --> 02:01:27,880
Speaker 1: the fallen world, the outsiders, is what they would say.

2062
02:01:28,360 --> 02:01:33,920
Speaker 1: So just this very, you know, like very like stigmatizing

2063
02:01:34,000 --> 02:01:37,000
Speaker 1: language that they use for people. Lots of people are

2064
02:01:37,040 --> 02:01:39,080
Speaker 1: just called evil in the church. To they just call

2065
02:01:39,160 --> 02:01:42,680
Speaker 1: people evil like Willy Nilly. It's like Oh, you're satanic,

2066
02:01:42,880 --> 02:01:49,640
Speaker 1: like no, that's not it that's not that I don't

2067
02:01:49,640 --> 02:01:51,800
Speaker 1: know how to do a good tradition into this. Yeah,

2068
02:01:52,320 --> 02:01:56,040
Speaker 1: we're going to adds. Yeah, so I want to just

2069
02:01:56,200 --> 02:02:02,160
Speaker 1: also talk about specifically one of the things that the

2070
02:02:02,240 --> 02:02:04,840
Speaker 1: church does and one of the things like the sort

2071
02:02:04,840 --> 02:02:09,360
Speaker 1: of one of the specific things that to Yamagami, Yamagami

2072
02:02:09,440 --> 02:02:14,440
Speaker 1: seems to have been suffering from, and well, physically is mom,

2073
02:02:14,520 --> 02:02:16,960
Speaker 1: but his sort of full family, is the financial abuse.

2074
02:02:18,520 --> 02:02:22,160
Speaker 1: And Yeah, I wanted to ask you a bit about

2075
02:02:22,240 --> 02:02:25,560
Speaker 1: what that looks like. And also there's some stuff about

2076
02:02:25,560 --> 02:02:29,920
Speaker 1: the Japanese context that I think is slightly different than. Yeah,

2077
02:02:30,880 --> 02:02:33,040
Speaker 1: so the American of the Korean context. I want to

2078
02:02:33,040 --> 02:02:36,960
Speaker 1: ask you a bit about that. Yeah, definitely. So across

2079
02:02:37,040 --> 02:02:40,800
Speaker 1: the board, uh, comunification church members are expected to bring

2080
02:02:40,840 --> 02:02:44,560
Speaker 1: in a lot of money through fundraising, through tithing, uh,

2081
02:02:44,800 --> 02:02:49,640
Speaker 1: providing free labor or, you know, low paid labor through

2082
02:02:49,720 --> 02:02:54,840
Speaker 1: church businesses and stuff. Um. So the cases though, that

2083
02:02:54,920 --> 02:02:58,960
Speaker 1: in Japan, because of the rhetoric of the church, which is,

2084
02:02:59,000 --> 02:03:05,800
Speaker 1: you know, basically born out of, you know, the environment. Um,

2085
02:03:05,840 --> 02:03:10,760
Speaker 1: in Korea, uh so there's basically this thought in the

2086
02:03:10,840 --> 02:03:16,320
Speaker 1: church that they say, Um, that Korea is the atom nation. Uh,

2087
02:03:16,400 --> 02:03:21,080
Speaker 1: because that's where, uh, you know, the Messiah came back, uh,

2088
02:03:21,360 --> 02:03:24,520
Speaker 1: South Korea and Um, and that Japan is the eve

2089
02:03:24,640 --> 02:03:28,240
Speaker 1: nations supposed to submit to the atom nation. Um and

2090
02:03:28,280 --> 02:03:31,880
Speaker 1: also sort of pay indemnity, which is a big word

2091
02:03:31,880 --> 02:03:36,600
Speaker 1: in the church, and uh, for the atrocity is committed

2092
02:03:36,680 --> 02:03:41,240
Speaker 1: during the Japanese occupation of Korea. Um. And so this

2093
02:03:41,600 --> 02:03:45,720
Speaker 1: means that Japanese members have to pay significantly more for

2094
02:03:45,800 --> 02:03:51,120
Speaker 1: pretty much everything. Um. So there's it's like just uh

2095
02:03:51,400 --> 02:03:54,640
Speaker 1: you know, like instead of like a type of reparations

2096
02:03:54,680 --> 02:03:57,800
Speaker 1: where it's like, you know, we'll give you money, it's

2097
02:03:57,800 --> 02:04:02,880
Speaker 1: like they make them suffer for uh that fact. and

2098
02:04:03,200 --> 02:04:07,920
Speaker 1: Uh so, like you know, fundraising goals are very high. Um,

2099
02:04:08,640 --> 02:04:16,680
Speaker 1: let me see, I think I had a figure here somewhere. Um. Uh. Yeah,

2100
02:04:16,720 --> 02:04:20,839
Speaker 1: so Japanese membership they bring in roughly of the church's income.

2101
02:04:21,400 --> 02:04:25,320
Speaker 1: Uh so a large amount for, you know, like proportionally.

2102
02:04:25,440 --> 02:04:29,600
Speaker 1: Not You know, there are a lot of members in Japan. However,

2103
02:04:30,240 --> 02:04:32,680
Speaker 1: throughout the world, that is like proportionately. You know, where

2104
02:04:32,800 --> 02:04:35,600
Speaker 1: most of it comes from. Um. And then, as of

2105
02:04:35,640 --> 02:04:39,560
Speaker 1: several years ago, uh, the Japanese church fundraising goal was

2106
02:04:40,080 --> 02:04:43,720
Speaker 1: thirty billion yen, or around two million for that year,

2107
02:04:43,760 --> 02:04:48,760
Speaker 1: I believe. So, just, you know. And so they go

2108
02:04:48,800 --> 02:04:54,280
Speaker 1: out selling uh, ancestor liberation is one thing. Uh, you're

2109
02:04:54,320 --> 02:04:58,720
Speaker 1: supposed to pay exorbitant fees for your ancestors to go

2110
02:04:58,800 --> 02:05:03,919
Speaker 1: to heaven. Um. There was a book called the Chanson

2111
02:05:04,040 --> 02:05:08,160
Speaker 1: young and that book was extremely expensive and, of course,

2112
02:05:08,360 --> 02:05:12,640
Speaker 1: much more expensive for members in Japan. Um, I think

2113
02:05:12,720 --> 02:05:14,800
Speaker 1: I read a figure where I think, I don't remember

2114
02:05:14,800 --> 02:05:17,240
Speaker 1: what year it was and it was not very recent.

2115
02:05:17,280 --> 02:05:20,760
Speaker 1: I think it might have been or something, or two

2116
02:05:20,760 --> 02:05:23,920
Speaker 1: thousand two or something. I'm not sure, but it costs like, roughly,

2117
02:05:24,000 --> 02:05:29,960
Speaker 1: like two thousand American dollars to go to the marriage ceremony,

2118
02:05:30,080 --> 02:05:32,160
Speaker 1: the one of the mass weddings that the moonies do,

2119
02:05:32,280 --> 02:05:39,480
Speaker 1: where everybody has arranged marriage, arranged married, Um. And so yeah,

2120
02:05:39,640 --> 02:05:45,160
Speaker 1: just like these huge amounts of money, uh, directly flowing

2121
02:05:45,320 --> 02:05:50,240
Speaker 1: from the pockets of the membership and anyone they happened to,

2122
02:05:50,440 --> 02:05:55,160
Speaker 1: you know, have give them money, uh into the coffers

2123
02:05:55,160 --> 02:05:57,160
Speaker 1: of the Church and, you know, directly on up to

2124
02:05:57,240 --> 02:06:01,560
Speaker 1: like the Moon family, who are billionaires. Um. Another thing

2125
02:06:01,560 --> 02:06:06,040
Speaker 1: I would say here is that they often uh so

2126
02:06:06,120 --> 02:06:09,640
Speaker 1: for people who that they're trying to fundraise from uh,

2127
02:06:09,720 --> 02:06:15,520
Speaker 1: they often will target like elderly widows and people who are,

2128
02:06:15,560 --> 02:06:18,160
Speaker 1: you know, in sort of precarious places and come to

2129
02:06:18,200 --> 02:06:21,200
Speaker 1: them and say, your family member who has passed away

2130
02:06:21,480 --> 02:06:24,240
Speaker 1: wants you to give this donation to the church. Uh.

2131
02:06:24,280 --> 02:06:26,200
Speaker 1: They also like at one point made up like a

2132
02:06:26,200 --> 02:06:29,880
Speaker 1: fake Buddhist sect in order to like specifically target people.

2133
02:06:30,360 --> 02:06:34,440
Speaker 1: So it goes deep. There's a there's a lot to that. Yeah,

2134
02:06:34,680 --> 02:06:36,080
Speaker 1: like one of the things I remember reading those like that.

2135
02:06:36,160 --> 02:06:38,040
Speaker 1: Yet they had like this whole network of like fake

2136
02:06:38,160 --> 02:06:42,320
Speaker 1: mediums you would like like specifically to target people. They add.

2137
02:06:42,360 --> 02:06:46,520
Speaker 1: So we target the widows, which is like I don't know.

2138
02:06:47,640 --> 02:06:49,760
Speaker 1: So so much of the stuff that they do is

2139
02:06:49,800 --> 02:06:54,040
Speaker 1: just so incredibly leak like, I think. Yeah, I mean

2140
02:06:54,240 --> 02:06:56,200
Speaker 1: the thing that always that got me was the sort

2141
02:06:56,200 --> 02:07:01,160
Speaker 1: of like like the the way in which they're sort

2142
02:07:01,160 --> 02:07:07,040
Speaker 1: of weaponizing like like Japan's sort of war crimes in

2143
02:07:07,040 --> 02:07:09,560
Speaker 1: in South Korea and North Korea as well. And it's

2144
02:07:09,600 --> 02:07:13,600
Speaker 1: like it's like a on the one hand, like yeah,

2145
02:07:13,760 --> 02:07:15,640
Speaker 1: like a all this body is just going to like

2146
02:07:15,680 --> 02:07:20,200
Speaker 1: a bunch of like too rich fascists and then be like,

2147
02:07:20,320 --> 02:07:21,640
Speaker 1: and I think this is something else we can sort

2148
02:07:21,640 --> 02:07:26,680
Speaker 1: of get into is, like, okay, so the church's main

2149
02:07:26,760 --> 02:07:29,920
Speaker 1: political allies in Japan are the people who did all

2150
02:07:29,920 --> 02:07:37,400
Speaker 1: that ship Yep, like, no, it's just a constant deflection,

2151
02:07:37,560 --> 02:07:40,240
Speaker 1: pretty much. Yeah, and I mean it's interesting too, because,

2152
02:07:40,240 --> 02:07:42,120
Speaker 1: like you get, you get this, like some of the

2153
02:07:42,120 --> 02:07:45,080
Speaker 1: newspapers they fund will like openly say that, like, Japan

2154
02:07:45,120 --> 02:07:48,640
Speaker 1: should rearm again and like Japan should like start retaking

2155
02:07:48,680 --> 02:07:51,680
Speaker 1: Korea and then, like you have did, the other art

2156
02:07:51,720 --> 02:07:53,800
Speaker 1: with their business being like hey, pay US money for

2157
02:07:54,040 --> 02:07:56,600
Speaker 1: all the people you guys killed, and it's less. I

2158
02:07:56,640 --> 02:08:05,080
Speaker 1: don't know, it's yeah, it's pretty it's the worst, honestly. Yeah, yeah,

2159
02:08:05,200 --> 02:08:08,200
Speaker 1: and I guess, I guess. Yeah, I think. I think

2160
02:08:08,240 --> 02:08:10,200
Speaker 1: this is as good a place as I need to

2161
02:08:10,240 --> 02:08:14,880
Speaker 1: go into. Like, okay, so the moodies like could not

2162
02:08:15,080 --> 02:08:17,520
Speaker 1: do the things that they do in Japan without an

2163
02:08:17,560 --> 02:08:21,480
Speaker 1: incredibly large degree of institutional support. Um, part of this

2164
02:08:21,600 --> 02:08:24,360
Speaker 1: sort is with the Yakuza because, like you can't run,

2165
02:08:25,480 --> 02:08:30,440
Speaker 1: like you can't do organized crime stuff like like running

2166
02:08:30,440 --> 02:08:35,080
Speaker 1: an entire network of people to defraud widows, like in Japan,

2167
02:08:35,280 --> 02:08:37,520
Speaker 1: without the acquisite like you having some kind of deal

2168
02:08:37,600 --> 02:08:42,040
Speaker 1: with them. YEA, and yeah, and and and that. That

2169
02:08:42,200 --> 02:08:46,640
Speaker 1: also bizarrely ties in with sort of how how the

2170
02:08:46,640 --> 02:08:52,480
Speaker 1: innification Church got integrated with the sort of mainstream? Wow, yeah,

2171
02:08:52,560 --> 02:08:55,760
Speaker 1: you know, I'm just gonna call them mainstream, like fuck it. People, people, people,

2172
02:08:55,760 --> 02:08:58,520
Speaker 1: people will quibble about the different factions of the LDP.

2173
02:08:59,360 --> 02:09:02,520
Speaker 1: I frame we don't care for reasons that will get

2174
02:09:02,560 --> 02:09:07,680
Speaker 1: to but yeah, how. How? How they got, like and yeah,

2175
02:09:07,680 --> 02:09:09,400
Speaker 1: which I guess we're talking about, like the origins of

2176
02:09:09,400 --> 02:09:12,600
Speaker 1: how they got ingrained with Japan's like perpetual ruling party,

2177
02:09:12,720 --> 02:09:27,880
Speaker 1: live Democratic Party. Yeah, Um, sorry, were you? Were you? Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, sorry,

2178
02:09:28,040 --> 02:09:32,240
Speaker 1: I wasn't sure that was a question. It's okay. Um. So, yeah,

2179
02:09:32,280 --> 02:09:36,400
Speaker 1: it goes all the way back to uh, like so

2180
02:09:36,640 --> 02:09:40,360
Speaker 1: it goes. It goes back pretty far. So Novasuka Kishi

2181
02:09:40,840 --> 02:09:46,080
Speaker 1: obvious maternal grandfather. So he initially became sort of embroiled

2182
02:09:46,120 --> 02:09:49,640
Speaker 1: with the UC kind of stuff, unification church stuff, in

2183
02:09:49,680 --> 02:09:54,160
Speaker 1: the early days of when the movement Um was in Japan. Uh,

2184
02:09:54,200 --> 02:09:58,040
Speaker 1: he collaborated on stuff like the foundation for victory over communism.

2185
02:09:58,640 --> 02:10:01,760
Speaker 1: Spoke at their the founding of the organization at a

2186
02:10:01,840 --> 02:10:05,280
Speaker 1: UC church which was, I think, uh, next to fish's

2187
02:10:05,480 --> 02:10:07,760
Speaker 1: a state or something like that. Yeah, and I think,

2188
02:10:07,800 --> 02:10:09,760
Speaker 1: I think, I think, I think he sold them their

2189
02:10:09,760 --> 02:10:13,919
Speaker 1: first building in Japan. Yeah, I think, if I remembering

2190
02:10:13,920 --> 02:10:22,280
Speaker 1: something that I read at one point. Right, yeah, so, Um, so, yeah.

2191
02:10:22,360 --> 02:10:26,080
Speaker 1: And then, uh, in sixty two, the UC was able

2192
02:10:26,160 --> 02:10:30,160
Speaker 1: to convert fifty leaders of the alternationalist Nietzchech in Buddhist

2193
02:10:30,480 --> 02:10:33,720
Speaker 1: Uh sect, called sect called, Oh Gosh, I don't know

2194
02:10:33,720 --> 02:10:37,960
Speaker 1: how to pronounce this, Rio Show Cost Kai. Uh, and

2195
02:10:38,000 --> 02:10:41,960
Speaker 1: they had a lot of strong use of Yakaza connections. Um.

2196
02:10:42,040 --> 02:10:46,040
Speaker 1: And then Sami Kobuki was the first, you see, president

2197
02:10:46,080 --> 02:10:49,080
Speaker 1: in Japan. Uh, he was the Yakuza Lieutenant and second

2198
02:10:49,120 --> 02:10:51,600
Speaker 1: in command of that group that I had just mentioned.

2199
02:10:52,040 --> 02:10:54,680
Speaker 1: And and the other thing we should mention about this

2200
02:10:54,800 --> 02:10:59,760
Speaker 1: about the sort of how the occusite ties. Yeah, is that? So? Okay? So,

2201
02:11:00,000 --> 02:11:02,360
Speaker 1: Obsa Kishi is the guy who founds liberal democratic, the

2202
02:11:02,360 --> 02:11:05,080
Speaker 1: Liberal Democratic Party, right like He. The Liberal Democratic Party

2203
02:11:05,160 --> 02:11:09,240
Speaker 1: is his creation. It is like what that party is

2204
02:11:09,240 --> 02:11:14,480
Speaker 1: is all of Japan's conservatives basically like basically seating to

2205
02:11:14,520 --> 02:11:16,720
Speaker 1: his authority and being like, okay, fine, we're gonna follow

2206
02:11:16,760 --> 02:11:21,200
Speaker 1: your lead. Um, and his his party is like his

2207
02:11:21,520 --> 02:11:24,440
Speaker 1: base and his funding is basically a combination of what

2208
02:11:24,640 --> 02:11:27,800
Speaker 1: he he like. Kishi himself is a like artual words

2209
02:11:27,840 --> 02:11:31,520
Speaker 1: of war criminal. Um, his his base is basically in

2210
02:11:31,640 --> 02:11:36,520
Speaker 1: the old Japanese fascists. He is funded by, like, well,

2211
02:11:36,560 --> 02:11:39,280
Speaker 1: partially funded, like funded directly by the CIA. Um, he's

2212
02:11:39,320 --> 02:11:42,040
Speaker 1: also funded by but the the CIA in particular here

2213
02:11:42,120 --> 02:11:45,320
Speaker 1: is working through the Yakuza, because one of what that's

2214
02:11:45,320 --> 02:11:47,280
Speaker 1: that's one of the sort of the will like will

2215
02:11:47,320 --> 02:11:48,800
Speaker 1: it be in this sort of like we will. Will

2216
02:11:48,800 --> 02:11:51,240
Speaker 1: it be sent up? Not Cia, but yeah, that basically

2217
02:11:51,240 --> 02:11:53,400
Speaker 1: American intelligence in the American army starts working to the

2218
02:11:53,400 --> 02:11:58,200
Speaker 1: Akus as like an anti communist Um Force, and he

2219
02:11:58,200 --> 02:12:03,360
Speaker 1: he gets bankrolled by this two guys named Kodama and Um, right,

2220
02:12:03,400 --> 02:12:07,720
Speaker 1: you reached. Yeah, Sasakawa, who are like Kodamas is like

2221
02:12:07,720 --> 02:12:10,320
Speaker 1: like the like milit basically like the guy who is

2222
02:12:10,320 --> 02:12:12,840
Speaker 1: in charge of the Yakaza. He's also a fascist. Um

2223
02:12:13,680 --> 02:12:17,200
Speaker 1: Kawa is this self like literally called himself the world's

2224
02:12:17,280 --> 02:12:20,960
Speaker 1: rishest fascist. And both of these guys are like huge

2225
02:12:20,960 --> 02:12:25,160
Speaker 1: bank rollers of of Kishi. They are also and you know,

2226
02:12:25,200 --> 02:12:27,480
Speaker 1: and when, when? When Kishi is like bringing in the

2227
02:12:27,560 --> 02:12:31,520
Speaker 1: church like this? This is how this is, this is

2228
02:12:31,560 --> 02:12:35,720
Speaker 1: how all these people have got have Yakaza connections because, yeah,

2229
02:12:35,800 --> 02:12:38,360
Speaker 1: it's it's this. The whole sort of Japanese right wing

2230
02:12:38,520 --> 02:12:43,600
Speaker 1: like political machine is like one like happy family that

2231
02:12:43,760 --> 02:12:48,400
Speaker 1: is doing doing the worst stuff altogether, at the same

2232
02:12:48,440 --> 02:12:52,000
Speaker 1: time funded by the CIA. Yep, and like, and also,

2233
02:12:52,520 --> 02:12:54,440
Speaker 1: I need to say this, I said this is my episodebook,

2234
02:12:54,840 --> 02:12:59,000
Speaker 1: like like the level of CIA involvement here. Like there

2235
02:12:59,000 --> 02:13:02,880
Speaker 1: there are individual will CIA agents assigned to individual Liberal

2236
02:13:02,920 --> 02:13:05,440
Speaker 1: Democratic Party candidates in the fifties to make sure they

2237
02:13:05,480 --> 02:13:09,240
Speaker 1: won their elections. I did not know that, but that

2238
02:13:09,480 --> 02:13:21,480
Speaker 1: is it's not wild so specific. Wow, yes, yeah, concerning things,

2239
02:13:21,600 --> 02:13:26,840
Speaker 1: concerning things, Oh God, Um. But yeah, so, like, yeah,

2240
02:13:26,920 --> 02:13:29,720
Speaker 1: to this day a lot of LDP candidates and politicians

2241
02:13:29,760 --> 02:13:32,800
Speaker 1: still have ties to do you see, get donations from it. UH,

2242
02:13:33,280 --> 02:13:37,560
Speaker 1: used like membership as like free labor. uh, even like

2243
02:13:37,720 --> 02:13:43,920
Speaker 1: having secretaries from who are members of the UC and uh, like,

2244
02:13:44,280 --> 02:13:47,320
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes they would you know see like some

2245
02:13:47,480 --> 02:13:51,240
Speaker 1: sort of like classified or you know, information and stuff

2246
02:13:51,280 --> 02:13:56,160
Speaker 1: like that. So there's, yeah, there's like apart from like that,

2247
02:13:56,760 --> 02:14:00,720
Speaker 1: like just so interconnected. Yeah, do you do you remember

2248
02:14:00,800 --> 02:14:05,720
Speaker 1: the story about the LDPs like number two guy, like

2249
02:14:06,040 --> 02:14:11,000
Speaker 1: getting getting moon to be able to visit Japan. Ah, sorry,

2250
02:14:11,040 --> 02:14:14,480
Speaker 1: I don't Oh God. Okay, so that my memory of

2251
02:14:14,560 --> 02:14:18,840
Speaker 1: this story was okay. So, like, Japan has a series

2252
02:14:18,880 --> 02:14:22,640
Speaker 1: of really weird laws about like, okay, Japan is a

2253
02:14:22,680 --> 02:14:25,480
Speaker 1: series of very weird laws about many, many things. One

2254
02:14:25,520 --> 02:14:27,440
Speaker 1: of them has to do with it. It's something like

2255
02:14:27,600 --> 02:14:29,760
Speaker 1: if you've been convicted of a felony in another country,

2256
02:14:29,840 --> 02:14:34,120
Speaker 1: you can't enter Japan. And I don't know if it's

2257
02:14:34,360 --> 02:14:35,480
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's a felony. I don't I

2258
02:14:35,480 --> 02:14:37,480
Speaker 1: don't know what the I forget. I'm forgetting what the

2259
02:14:37,600 --> 02:14:39,720
Speaker 1: legal bar is for what you have to be like

2260
02:14:39,800 --> 02:14:42,080
Speaker 1: convicted of in or to not be able to enter

2261
02:14:42,120 --> 02:14:46,960
Speaker 1: the country. But I, like moon is a I like

2262
02:14:47,240 --> 02:14:51,919
Speaker 1: he like he was like convicted by the US governments

2263
02:14:52,440 --> 02:14:55,000
Speaker 1: of like perjury and a bunch of other ships because

2264
02:14:55,240 --> 02:14:57,480
Speaker 1: of the crimes that he did, and so he, like

2265
02:14:57,600 --> 02:15:00,920
Speaker 1: technically legally could not enter Japan. And then, like the

2266
02:15:01,080 --> 02:15:07,480
Speaker 1: the the vice president of Um an office, presently got

2267
02:15:07,720 --> 02:15:09,440
Speaker 1: him for his title. But maybe basically, like what like?

2268
02:15:09,560 --> 02:15:15,480
Speaker 1: Basically like the like the like the second most powerful

2269
02:15:15,520 --> 02:15:19,520
Speaker 1: man in Japanese politics and the nineties, like very specifically

2270
02:15:19,640 --> 02:15:22,280
Speaker 1: did a whole bunch of Visa Bullshit so that specifically

2271
02:15:22,360 --> 02:15:27,720
Speaker 1: boon could go to Japan legally. Not Surprising, not surprising,

2272
02:15:27,840 --> 02:15:34,400
Speaker 1: but wow. Yeah, it's like, Um, the lengths people will

2273
02:15:34,440 --> 02:15:39,560
Speaker 1: go to to collaborate with other fascists. Yeah, I think

2274
02:15:39,680 --> 02:15:41,640
Speaker 1: that's that's I don't know, that's to me. What makes

2275
02:15:41,680 --> 02:15:48,080
Speaker 1: the Sassination really interesting is that. Like, okay, so, if

2276
02:15:48,120 --> 02:15:51,520
Speaker 1: you ask like even like in Japan, if you had

2277
02:15:51,560 --> 02:15:55,560
Speaker 1: asked the average person what the connection between like Shinzowabe

2278
02:15:55,560 --> 02:15:57,840
Speaker 1: and Edification Church was, like, most people have no idea.

2279
02:15:58,040 --> 02:16:00,400
Speaker 1: Like before this assassination, those people had like no idea

2280
02:16:00,440 --> 02:16:05,440
Speaker 1: what that was. Yeah, yeah, after the assassination this the

2281
02:16:05,520 --> 02:16:12,320
Speaker 1: whole landscape has changed. Um, yeah, I mean it's it's

2282
02:16:12,360 --> 02:16:15,400
Speaker 1: been really interesting to watch like this. This really seems

2283
02:16:15,440 --> 02:16:20,600
Speaker 1: like an incredibly sort of politically effective assassination because, yeah, okay, so,

2284
02:16:20,720 --> 02:16:22,080
Speaker 1: you know, you you you had, there was, there was,

2285
02:16:22,160 --> 02:16:24,320
Speaker 1: you know, you had the very the initial right wing backlash,

2286
02:16:24,400 --> 02:16:28,080
Speaker 1: but the righting backlash kind of it got kind of

2287
02:16:28,200 --> 02:16:30,160
Speaker 1: muted when it when it became clear that it like

2288
02:16:30,440 --> 02:16:32,760
Speaker 1: wasn't a left wing radical, which I think would have

2289
02:16:32,800 --> 02:16:36,600
Speaker 1: actually been an enormous disaster. Yeah, but then the guy

2290
02:16:36,800 --> 02:16:39,840
Speaker 1: was Yamagami, was pretty right wing himself. Yeah, it's like

2291
02:16:39,920 --> 02:16:41,960
Speaker 1: he's a right wing guy and but also like his

2292
02:16:42,040 --> 02:16:46,960
Speaker 1: story is really sympathetic. Yeah, I mean I feel for

2293
02:16:47,040 --> 02:16:50,600
Speaker 1: the guy. Like he had so much trauba in his life, honestly,

2294
02:16:51,400 --> 02:16:55,920
Speaker 1: and like it's obvious like, and I think you know

2295
02:16:56,000 --> 02:16:59,760
Speaker 1: a lot of uh former members, you know, sort of

2296
02:17:00,040 --> 02:17:04,560
Speaker 1: understand how that feels. UH, most of us have an

2297
02:17:04,560 --> 02:17:13,200
Speaker 1: assassinated a prime minister, but so far, so far. But yeah, like,

2298
02:17:13,480 --> 02:17:16,120
Speaker 1: I mean we understand that pain of where he is

2299
02:17:16,160 --> 02:17:19,960
Speaker 1: coming from and like, you know why, upon learning that

2300
02:17:20,200 --> 02:17:23,920
Speaker 1: Abe had these ties, he's sort of like, I felt

2301
02:17:24,560 --> 02:17:28,520
Speaker 1: like compelled to do something. Yeah, and I think the

2302
02:17:28,840 --> 02:17:31,520
Speaker 1: I mean there's also this element at work here that's

2303
02:17:31,560 --> 02:17:34,840
Speaker 1: kind of weird, which is like, okay, it's very, very

2304
02:17:34,879 --> 02:17:37,680
Speaker 1: hard normally to get like right wing Japanese people to

2305
02:17:37,760 --> 02:17:40,240
Speaker 1: turn on their own party. Uh, the one way that

2306
02:17:40,360 --> 02:17:42,240
Speaker 1: you can do it is by going hey, look at

2307
02:17:42,280 --> 02:17:47,720
Speaker 1: these Koreans. So there's like weird dynamics going on here.

2308
02:17:48,400 --> 02:17:50,160
Speaker 1: Like there were some, there were some like even further

2309
02:17:50,320 --> 02:17:52,080
Speaker 1: right parties who were like, you know, using this thing

2310
02:17:52,120 --> 02:17:53,960
Speaker 1: as a campaign thing of like Ah, this party is

2311
02:17:54,000 --> 02:17:55,680
Speaker 1: like a fake right wing party, like they're all being

2312
02:17:55,760 --> 02:17:58,320
Speaker 1: run by like Koreans, and it's like, okay, that's like not,

2313
02:17:59,400 --> 02:18:01,840
Speaker 1: like the thing that is bad about the moonies is

2314
02:18:01,879 --> 02:18:04,360
Speaker 1: not that they're Korean, it's that it's all of the

2315
02:18:04,440 --> 02:18:08,920
Speaker 1: other ship they do. Yeah, and I think that's complicated,

2316
02:18:09,040 --> 02:18:16,119
Speaker 1: but also, yeah, like the political impact this has had

2317
02:18:16,200 --> 02:18:21,360
Speaker 1: has been like enormous. Yeah, yeah, do you want to

2318
02:18:21,640 --> 02:18:26,760
Speaker 1: talk about that a bit? Yeah, so, Um, so, okay.

2319
02:18:28,840 --> 02:18:31,720
Speaker 1: Obviously it has shined a lot of light on sort

2320
02:18:31,720 --> 02:18:35,880
Speaker 1: of the connections that a lot of members of the

2321
02:18:35,959 --> 02:18:39,160
Speaker 1: government there have from the L D P, Um, as

2322
02:18:39,200 --> 02:18:45,040
Speaker 1: well as other parties have with do you see getting donations, etcetera. Um,

2323
02:18:45,200 --> 02:18:47,920
Speaker 1: people are pissed about it, you know, as they should be. Um.

2324
02:18:48,200 --> 02:18:54,440
Speaker 1: So I guess that, uh, Prime Minister Kashida has said

2325
02:18:54,600 --> 02:18:58,520
Speaker 1: that they want to cut ties with the Unification Church

2326
02:18:58,600 --> 02:19:00,920
Speaker 1: at this point. Uh, and it sort of remains to

2327
02:19:00,959 --> 02:19:03,440
Speaker 1: be seen whether that actually happens or not, because it

2328
02:19:03,480 --> 02:19:06,320
Speaker 1: can usually just be like lip service kind of ship. Um,

2329
02:19:06,920 --> 02:19:10,240
Speaker 1: but the politicians are uh, and I'm not sure if

2330
02:19:10,280 --> 02:19:11,760
Speaker 1: this is specifically for the LD P or sort of

2331
02:19:11,800 --> 02:19:14,879
Speaker 1: across the board. Um, there's like a thing where they're

2332
02:19:14,879 --> 02:19:17,800
Speaker 1: supposed to self report any ties or donations to the

2333
02:19:17,920 --> 02:19:20,560
Speaker 1: U S, which is just, you know, like I don't know,

2334
02:19:20,760 --> 02:19:23,600
Speaker 1: like I don't think everybody's going to come forward with

2335
02:19:23,720 --> 02:19:25,800
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. If you're supposed to do it yourself,

2336
02:19:25,920 --> 02:19:30,400
Speaker 1: that's like not how that should work. But Um, so,

2337
02:19:30,600 --> 02:19:32,960
Speaker 1: I mean, like it remains to be seen, you know,

2338
02:19:33,080 --> 02:19:36,959
Speaker 1: if those ties are actually gonna be cut. Um. So also,

2339
02:19:37,240 --> 02:19:41,280
Speaker 1: like there has been sort of like, uh a, a

2340
02:19:41,800 --> 02:19:45,000
Speaker 1: a lot of support from uh, like lawyer groups, like

2341
02:19:45,080 --> 02:19:49,160
Speaker 1: the National Network of lawyers against spiritual sales Um, who has,

2342
02:19:49,280 --> 02:19:53,160
Speaker 1: you know, worked with, you know, cult members and like

2343
02:19:53,240 --> 02:19:57,720
Speaker 1: specifically a lot of Unification Church members or former members

2344
02:19:57,840 --> 02:20:02,560
Speaker 1: or whatever who have, you know, lost money through spiritual

2345
02:20:02,640 --> 02:20:05,240
Speaker 1: sales Um. And they've also just recently called for the

2346
02:20:05,280 --> 02:20:08,480
Speaker 1: dissolution of the UC in Japan, which is pretty cool

2347
02:20:08,520 --> 02:20:11,800
Speaker 1: and I hope that happens. How realistic it is, given

2348
02:20:12,200 --> 02:20:15,520
Speaker 1: all of the strong ties to the government, but that

2349
02:20:15,560 --> 02:20:19,600
Speaker 1: would be cool. Um. And then also I saw a

2350
02:20:19,680 --> 02:20:22,520
Speaker 1: thing a couple of days ago that Japanese consulates and

2351
02:20:22,560 --> 02:20:26,400
Speaker 1: embassies have a program that is offering advice or assistance, uh,

2352
02:20:26,560 --> 02:20:30,560
Speaker 1: to UC members who are Japanese nationals and their children, Um,

2353
02:20:30,680 --> 02:20:33,120
Speaker 1: and that ends on September thirty, I think. So, if

2354
02:20:33,160 --> 02:20:36,360
Speaker 1: anybody needs that, getting fast. Um. But I think that

2355
02:20:36,400 --> 02:20:40,119
Speaker 1: also applies in America. So if, like you're a Japanese

2356
02:20:40,240 --> 02:20:42,480
Speaker 1: national and like a victim of the U S or

2357
02:20:42,680 --> 02:20:46,760
Speaker 1: if your parents are, uh, they those that open and

2358
02:20:46,840 --> 02:20:50,080
Speaker 1: I don't know exactly what the levels of support resources

2359
02:20:50,120 --> 02:20:55,879
Speaker 1: they're offering are, uh, but it's worth looking into for sure. Um.

2360
02:20:57,000 --> 02:20:58,960
Speaker 1: But yeah, like, so there's been like sort of this

2361
02:20:59,040 --> 02:21:04,600
Speaker 1: outpouring of support from various groups and there's, you know,

2362
02:21:04,760 --> 02:21:07,080
Speaker 1: like it's really shining a light on the issue of

2363
02:21:07,240 --> 02:21:11,119
Speaker 1: like especially what it's like to be a second generation

2364
02:21:11,240 --> 02:21:15,640
Speaker 1: member of occult and the trauma that people like us

2365
02:21:15,760 --> 02:21:19,640
Speaker 1: have gone through. Um, you know, there are definitely a

2366
02:21:19,680 --> 02:21:23,600
Speaker 1: lot of calls for like support and mental health care,

2367
02:21:23,920 --> 02:21:26,640
Speaker 1: as well as like, you know, ways to sort of

2368
02:21:26,680 --> 02:21:33,160
Speaker 1: get people out of situations like that in the first place. Um. Yeah, yeah,

2369
02:21:33,200 --> 02:21:38,200
Speaker 1: I don't know, I I. I. I hope this translates

2370
02:21:38,440 --> 02:21:43,080
Speaker 1: into actual resources. And Yeah, just sort of like the

2371
02:21:43,200 --> 02:21:48,040
Speaker 1: LDPs through ratings tanking, which like is good, and like

2372
02:21:48,240 --> 02:21:51,920
Speaker 1: it is very funny that Kishia has had to act

2373
02:21:52,080 --> 02:21:59,360
Speaker 1: like half his cabinet. Yeah, I don't know. I think

2374
02:21:59,400 --> 02:22:01,720
Speaker 1: it it remains, although he remains in power and he's

2375
02:22:02,600 --> 02:22:06,760
Speaker 1: see too interesting. So it's like, you know, clearly there's

2376
02:22:06,840 --> 02:22:10,080
Speaker 1: not a lot, like even if people are like having

2377
02:22:10,160 --> 02:22:12,760
Speaker 1: a little bit of like the smallest level of transparency

2378
02:22:12,840 --> 02:22:16,480
Speaker 1: about this stuff, like I don't necessarily know how far

2379
02:22:16,600 --> 02:22:19,640
Speaker 1: it will actually go into like, you know, making amends

2380
02:22:20,160 --> 02:22:23,320
Speaker 1: or like protecting people from further abuse or, you know,

2381
02:22:23,400 --> 02:22:27,039
Speaker 1: getting people their money back. I don't know, I think

2382
02:22:27,160 --> 02:22:30,880
Speaker 1: there's a there's something. I think that's that's really sort of,

2383
02:22:34,160 --> 02:22:37,800
Speaker 1: I don't know, like really grim about the way that

2384
02:22:37,920 --> 02:22:41,640
Speaker 1: this worked out, which the Japanese police knew what was

2385
02:22:41,720 --> 02:22:45,439
Speaker 1: going on and why this sessination had happened like immediately,

2386
02:22:46,520 --> 02:22:48,879
Speaker 1: like they found his hard drive and he'd written out

2387
02:22:48,879 --> 02:22:51,840
Speaker 1: the whole thing about why he did it. Yeah, and

2388
02:22:52,000 --> 02:22:55,320
Speaker 1: then they intentionally held the information and basically made were

2389
02:22:55,360 --> 02:22:57,120
Speaker 1: able to maintain a press in Bargo until after the

2390
02:22:57,200 --> 02:23:02,080
Speaker 1: election happened. Yeah, you know, now everyone fucking hates the LDB,

2391
02:23:02,320 --> 02:23:05,200
Speaker 1: like the perminision's approve of ratings, like theories present, like

2392
02:23:05,400 --> 02:23:07,720
Speaker 1: it's really bad. I mean it went from like fifty

2393
02:23:07,800 --> 02:23:09,520
Speaker 1: went from like fifty two to like thirties six and

2394
02:23:09,600 --> 02:23:13,160
Speaker 1: like a couple of weeks. But because the people who

2395
02:23:13,200 --> 02:23:15,360
Speaker 1: are people who connected the church are the people in charge,

2396
02:23:15,959 --> 02:23:19,000
Speaker 1: they were able to like suppress this information long enough

2397
02:23:19,080 --> 02:23:22,480
Speaker 1: to like shape how the election was going to go

2398
02:23:23,560 --> 02:23:24,920
Speaker 1: make sure that it was sort of like the right

2399
02:23:25,000 --> 02:23:28,040
Speaker 1: wing shock from Oh my God, that's assassinated prime minister

2400
02:23:28,760 --> 02:23:31,200
Speaker 1: and not the weight. The assassinated prime minister for a

2401
02:23:31,240 --> 02:23:35,760
Speaker 1: reason that's like incredibly justified and relatable to like this

2402
02:23:35,959 --> 02:23:38,440
Speaker 1: is as relatable with a motive of assassination as like

2403
02:23:38,560 --> 02:23:42,800
Speaker 1: I've ever seen. Yeah, I mean, like, as far as

2404
02:23:42,879 --> 02:23:45,680
Speaker 1: reasons for assassinating people go, this is a pretty like

2405
02:23:46,000 --> 02:23:50,800
Speaker 1: solid reason, like there's there's stuff there. Yeah, and like

2406
02:23:50,879 --> 02:23:52,959
Speaker 1: and I think it's just like like it's it's interesting.

2407
02:23:53,040 --> 02:23:57,120
Speaker 1: That's like it's it's rare assassination where the assassin is

2408
02:23:57,879 --> 02:24:03,200
Speaker 1: a very empathetic figure to like I think a lot

2409
02:24:03,280 --> 02:24:06,160
Speaker 1: of the time when you get people doing stuff like this,

2410
02:24:06,520 --> 02:24:11,080
Speaker 1: like it's there. There's sort of like one to one

2411
02:24:11,120 --> 02:24:14,160
Speaker 1: correlation with like okay, like how how? How how do

2412
02:24:14,280 --> 02:24:17,160
Speaker 1: you feel about sort of like like how how do

2413
02:24:17,160 --> 02:24:19,400
Speaker 1: you feel about assassination in general? is going to like

2414
02:24:19,440 --> 02:24:21,960
Speaker 1: determine your dicay, like determined your sort of response to

2415
02:24:22,200 --> 02:24:27,920
Speaker 1: the actual action, whereas I think here it's different, because

2416
02:24:29,160 --> 02:24:32,200
Speaker 1: you know like that yeah, this, this, this is someone who, yeah,

2417
02:24:32,240 --> 02:24:33,840
Speaker 1: I mean I keep saying that he's sort of like

2418
02:24:33,879 --> 02:24:35,880
Speaker 1: imminutely relatable, but it's like, yeah, this is, this is

2419
02:24:35,959 --> 02:24:40,520
Speaker 1: someone who, I don't know, has been through just an

2420
02:24:40,560 --> 02:24:44,320
Speaker 1: incredible amount of trauma in a way that's like very

2421
02:24:44,440 --> 02:24:49,520
Speaker 1: easily sort of digestible to like regular people. Yeah, it's like, yeah,

2422
02:24:49,720 --> 02:24:55,680
Speaker 1: very obvious trauma and like, you know, yeah, I don't know,

2423
02:24:56,080 --> 02:24:58,960
Speaker 1: it's and I really hope that that that that really

2424
02:24:59,080 --> 02:25:03,600
Speaker 1: does actually translated to resources for mental health resources, because

2425
02:25:04,360 --> 02:25:06,640
Speaker 1: I do too. I feel like as well as mental

2426
02:25:06,680 --> 02:25:08,720
Speaker 1: health resources, I help there are like, you know, financial

2427
02:25:08,840 --> 02:25:11,880
Speaker 1: resources and you know, like all sorts of other resources

2428
02:25:11,920 --> 02:25:14,720
Speaker 1: as well, because, like dealing with the fallout of, you know,

2429
02:25:14,920 --> 02:25:18,600
Speaker 1: having been in a like a cult is incredibly difficult

2430
02:25:18,640 --> 02:25:21,360
Speaker 1: and requires a lot of space and time, and a

2431
02:25:21,440 --> 02:25:24,800
Speaker 1: lot of people are, you know, left with like PTSD

2432
02:25:25,040 --> 02:25:27,640
Speaker 1: after that and it'll last for your whole life and

2433
02:25:27,720 --> 02:25:30,800
Speaker 1: that makes you know, for a lot of people, that

2434
02:25:30,920 --> 02:25:34,800
Speaker 1: makes you know, having getting money and doing job things

2435
02:25:34,959 --> 02:25:37,400
Speaker 1: extremely hard, especially, you know, if you're like getting like

2436
02:25:37,959 --> 02:25:42,520
Speaker 1: emotionally like thrown back into that all of the time. Um,

2437
02:25:44,080 --> 02:25:45,960
Speaker 1: so I hope there are like more, you know, like

2438
02:25:46,200 --> 02:25:49,840
Speaker 1: material resources that are also available in addition to uh,

2439
02:25:50,200 --> 02:25:53,320
Speaker 1: sort of like mental health care and therapy things. Is.

2440
02:25:53,400 --> 02:25:55,600
Speaker 1: That's something that I feel like it's all too often

2441
02:25:55,800 --> 02:26:02,400
Speaker 1: just not there for people who have been through abuse. Yeah,

2442
02:26:02,480 --> 02:26:05,959
Speaker 1: and I think also there's there's this way in which

2443
02:26:06,120 --> 02:26:10,520
Speaker 1: like like a lot of this like insofar as there's

2444
02:26:10,520 --> 02:26:14,240
Speaker 1: any kind of like support network like in the US,

2445
02:26:14,280 --> 02:26:17,800
Speaker 1: and this is also true of Japan, two maybe as

2446
02:26:18,040 --> 02:26:20,240
Speaker 1: I don't know, the Japanese offer stay. It's not great.

2447
02:26:20,680 --> 02:26:24,400
Speaker 1: But yeah, like there's an extent to which like the

2448
02:26:24,480 --> 02:26:26,840
Speaker 1: sort of like last safety net you have is your family,

2449
02:26:28,160 --> 02:26:31,120
Speaker 1: and you know, like this is this is a kind

2450
02:26:31,160 --> 02:26:32,879
Speaker 1: of thing that can very easily cut you off from

2451
02:26:32,879 --> 02:26:34,800
Speaker 1: your family and that that has, you know, I mean

2452
02:26:34,840 --> 02:26:37,000
Speaker 1: that that has emotional consequences, but like, yeah, that that

2453
02:26:37,080 --> 02:26:45,280
Speaker 1: has enormous financial consequences. That really don't like. I don't

2454
02:26:45,320 --> 02:26:48,360
Speaker 1: know I when when, when I was originally doing research

2455
02:26:48,400 --> 02:26:50,480
Speaker 1: on this, like I I read a lot of sort

2456
02:26:50,520 --> 02:26:55,040
Speaker 1: of like people arguing about like deprogramming stuff, and it

2457
02:26:55,360 --> 02:27:00,000
Speaker 1: like they just didn't talk about like that kind of stuff.

2458
02:27:00,000 --> 02:27:02,840
Speaker 1: Often it was always just sort of like, I don't know,

2459
02:27:03,920 --> 02:27:07,560
Speaker 1: really weird, and it's sort of like grotesque and detached

2460
02:27:07,640 --> 02:27:11,480
Speaker 1: way to think about it instead of like yeah, so, yeah,

2461
02:27:11,520 --> 02:27:14,039
Speaker 1: it depends on what type of care it is too, because, honestly,

2462
02:27:14,120 --> 02:27:18,160
Speaker 1: deprogramming is another cult. It is another cult. It's like

2463
02:27:18,240 --> 02:27:22,480
Speaker 1: an anticult cult and, Um, it just, you know, it

2464
02:27:23,200 --> 02:27:26,480
Speaker 1: re traumatizes those who are already traumatized and honestly, like

2465
02:27:26,640 --> 02:27:30,280
Speaker 1: people who have been deprogrammed sometimes leave, but a lot

2466
02:27:30,320 --> 02:27:32,480
Speaker 1: of the time it just increases their fervor for being

2467
02:27:32,600 --> 02:27:35,959
Speaker 1: part of whatever movement they're part of already. Um, because

2468
02:27:36,040 --> 02:27:37,480
Speaker 1: they're like Oh, if this is, you know, like what

2469
02:27:37,640 --> 02:27:39,400
Speaker 1: everybody is going to do to be if I leave,

2470
02:27:39,600 --> 02:27:41,320
Speaker 1: like of course, I gotta stick with this because, you know,

2471
02:27:41,400 --> 02:27:43,200
Speaker 1: then like it's like every what they've been saying the

2472
02:27:43,240 --> 02:27:46,879
Speaker 1: whole time about, you know, being persecuted and like hurt

2473
02:27:46,959 --> 02:27:49,760
Speaker 1: and stuff then becomes true. Right. Yeah, I guess that's

2474
02:27:49,760 --> 02:27:53,279
Speaker 1: the thing I would say about. Like that's my disclaimer

2475
02:27:53,320 --> 02:27:56,800
Speaker 1: about de programming. Uh, and though the collective we are

2476
02:27:56,840 --> 02:27:59,320
Speaker 1: a part of is called deprogramming imperialism. That is because

2477
02:27:59,360 --> 02:28:02,040
Speaker 1: the only thing that needs to be deprogrammed really is

2478
02:28:02,160 --> 02:28:05,400
Speaker 1: imperialism and not people, because that's not how that works.

2479
02:28:06,040 --> 02:28:08,840
Speaker 1: The radicalization requires a lot of trust, a lot of time,

2480
02:28:08,920 --> 02:28:11,520
Speaker 1: a lot of space, a lot of reflection. It's not

2481
02:28:11,680 --> 02:28:13,840
Speaker 1: something that, you know, you can just like go and

2482
02:28:13,959 --> 02:28:16,320
Speaker 1: like lock somebody in a basement for two weeks and

2483
02:28:16,440 --> 02:28:20,600
Speaker 1: then like try to make them leave whatever movement there

2484
02:28:20,640 --> 02:28:24,360
Speaker 1: part like that's that's just abuse. Yeah, I think, like,

2485
02:28:25,360 --> 02:28:28,760
Speaker 1: I don't know, I think it's it's as an industry.

2486
02:28:28,879 --> 02:28:31,400
Speaker 1: It's not as sort of like powerful as it used

2487
02:28:31,400 --> 02:28:37,360
Speaker 1: to be, but I think, like, I don't know it there's, there's,

2488
02:28:37,400 --> 02:28:39,120
Speaker 1: there's there's a sense in which it's sort of like,

2489
02:28:40,800 --> 02:28:42,680
Speaker 1: you know, it almost it almost has like civil war

2490
02:28:42,800 --> 02:28:46,200
Speaker 1: logic where it's like both, both, both sides need the

2491
02:28:46,320 --> 02:28:51,280
Speaker 1: other side as sort of they're like reason to exist and,

2492
02:28:52,160 --> 02:28:53,920
Speaker 1: you know, so like and both, you know on both both,

2493
02:28:53,959 --> 02:28:56,920
Speaker 1: both sides are traumatizing people. On both sides need like

2494
02:28:58,920 --> 02:29:00,880
Speaker 1: like that. They're there. There's they're serfically fighting over the

2495
02:29:00,959 --> 02:29:04,520
Speaker 1: same group of people and each of them can sort

2496
02:29:04,520 --> 02:29:06,600
Speaker 1: of like offer the other side as like Oh, Hey,

2497
02:29:06,640 --> 02:29:09,680
Speaker 1: this is why we need to exist thing. But then

2498
02:29:09,760 --> 02:29:11,840
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, and like like as with, like

2499
02:29:11,959 --> 02:29:14,320
Speaker 1: most civil wars, it's like the actual people caught in

2500
02:29:14,440 --> 02:29:17,520
Speaker 1: it don't it's like no, you don't actually need, you

2501
02:29:17,560 --> 02:29:23,320
Speaker 1: don't want either side of the civil war. You want out. Yeah, yeah, no,

2502
02:29:23,440 --> 02:29:26,039
Speaker 1: it's definitely it's definitely one of those like Oh, you're

2503
02:29:26,040 --> 02:29:28,000
Speaker 1: stuck between a rock and a hard place kind of things.

2504
02:29:28,080 --> 02:29:33,680
Speaker 1: It's like both options suck. Like yeah, like the two

2505
02:29:33,760 --> 02:29:41,160
Speaker 1: party systems. Yeah, God, Stalin, Stalin said two good things

2506
02:29:41,240 --> 02:29:43,200
Speaker 1: and his entire two things that were like funny in

2507
02:29:43,280 --> 02:29:45,360
Speaker 1: his entire life. One of them was the pope, how

2508
02:29:45,400 --> 02:29:47,240
Speaker 1: many division does he have? And the second one was

2509
02:29:47,360 --> 02:29:52,200
Speaker 1: they're both worse. And there I mean immediately he was

2510
02:29:52,280 --> 02:29:56,800
Speaker 1: wrong about they're both worse, but like yeah, that's a

2511
02:29:56,959 --> 02:30:00,520
Speaker 1: that's a that's a real thing. That is the basis

2512
02:30:00,560 --> 02:30:05,720
Speaker 1: of all modern politics. Honestly, that is honestly we hate

2513
02:30:05,800 --> 02:30:11,520
Speaker 1: to see. I hate to see it. Yeah, yeah, on

2514
02:30:11,800 --> 02:30:13,720
Speaker 1: the on the other hand, though, I don't know, like

2515
02:30:15,840 --> 02:30:20,760
Speaker 1: I I am kind of hopeful about this, like I

2516
02:30:20,840 --> 02:30:26,520
Speaker 1: am too. It genuinely seems to have like changed, like,

2517
02:30:27,240 --> 02:30:29,720
Speaker 1: at the very least, it's changed the way that the

2518
02:30:29,800 --> 02:30:33,280
Speaker 1: Japanese public, like season, understands this whole thing and like

2519
02:30:33,360 --> 02:30:35,400
Speaker 1: this is the first time, I think, ever betther, I

2520
02:30:35,440 --> 02:30:37,720
Speaker 1: mean like, you know, like the Communist Party and stuff.

2521
02:30:37,720 --> 02:30:39,320
Speaker 1: I've been trying for like years to get people to

2522
02:30:39,320 --> 02:30:41,360
Speaker 1: care about this. Just no one has really cared since, like,

2523
02:30:42,440 --> 02:30:44,440
Speaker 1: I don't know, like they basically since the Japanese left

2524
02:30:44,480 --> 02:30:46,680
Speaker 1: collapse in like the seventies. Like nobody's really cared about

2525
02:30:46,720 --> 02:30:52,440
Speaker 1: this and I don't know, it really seems like something

2526
02:30:52,640 --> 02:30:56,080
Speaker 1: like it really seems like this assassination has actually changed

2527
02:30:56,160 --> 02:31:01,240
Speaker 1: something about just sort of like the like just the

2528
02:31:01,840 --> 02:31:04,320
Speaker 1: way that the Japanese politics is being structured right now.

2529
02:31:05,360 --> 02:31:10,000
Speaker 1: And I don't know, I'm modern really hopeful. I would

2530
02:31:10,000 --> 02:31:12,200
Speaker 1: say I'm too I mean, like the more light that

2531
02:31:12,320 --> 02:31:14,240
Speaker 1: is shed on this, I think, the better. And like,

2532
02:31:15,200 --> 02:31:21,440
Speaker 1: unfortunately weird things happened, but I feel like if there's

2533
02:31:21,520 --> 02:31:26,920
Speaker 1: any chance for some sort of Um, some sort of

2534
02:31:27,400 --> 02:31:32,800
Speaker 1: you know across the board or even in certain areas

2535
02:31:32,920 --> 02:31:38,320
Speaker 1: just specifically, any sort of like justice, that the amount

2536
02:31:38,400 --> 02:31:44,119
Speaker 1: of public attention on this now is, you know, potentially

2537
02:31:44,280 --> 02:31:51,160
Speaker 1: something that could help bring something like that about. So

2538
02:31:51,600 --> 02:31:54,080
Speaker 1: I don't it's been it's been like sort of a

2539
02:31:54,160 --> 02:31:58,000
Speaker 1: weird ride for for us x members, Um, with all

2540
02:31:58,040 --> 02:32:01,840
Speaker 1: of that just sort of like re traumatizing to everything happened. Um,

2541
02:32:02,400 --> 02:32:03,960
Speaker 1: but at the end of the day, I think a

2542
02:32:04,000 --> 02:32:06,160
Speaker 1: lot of us are hopeful that things can change now

2543
02:32:06,240 --> 02:32:09,360
Speaker 1: that people know about it, because you know before that

2544
02:32:09,480 --> 02:32:13,440
Speaker 1: it wasn't something that was ever really talked about. Groups

2545
02:32:13,520 --> 02:32:16,600
Speaker 1: like this thrive on this sort of weird combination of

2546
02:32:16,760 --> 02:32:20,200
Speaker 1: like operating in the shadows and also when they show up,

2547
02:32:20,320 --> 02:32:24,400
Speaker 1: it's through their own PR stuff. Yeah, and you know,

2548
02:32:24,800 --> 02:32:27,960
Speaker 1: sometimes the best way to break that, apparently, is you

2549
02:32:28,080 --> 02:32:32,879
Speaker 1: shoot someone who was you shoot a guy who they

2550
02:32:32,920 --> 02:32:36,400
Speaker 1: who was working for them. And Yeah, I don't know,

2551
02:32:37,240 --> 02:32:42,800
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I feel like, Yeahmagami sort of managed

2552
02:32:42,920 --> 02:32:45,880
Speaker 1: to at least, you know, he he did what he

2553
02:32:46,320 --> 02:32:49,200
Speaker 1: he did a thing and it has had sort of,

2554
02:32:49,240 --> 02:32:53,039
Speaker 1: I probably, some of the impact that he imagined it would.

2555
02:32:53,360 --> 02:32:57,360
Speaker 1: So I don't know, yeah, like honestly, like Im from

2556
02:32:57,440 --> 02:33:00,360
Speaker 1: from what I've read of his stuff, like I I

2557
02:33:00,440 --> 02:33:02,440
Speaker 1: think that's what better than he expected it, like it

2558
02:33:02,520 --> 02:33:06,320
Speaker 1: could it possibly have gone? Like? He seemed like really

2559
02:33:06,680 --> 02:33:11,800
Speaker 1: really sort of just like had abandoned all hope. Yeah,

2560
02:33:11,879 --> 02:33:15,800
Speaker 1: and I don't know, I mean, like I guess the

2561
02:33:15,959 --> 02:33:18,360
Speaker 1: the other thing that I really hope out of this

2562
02:33:18,800 --> 02:33:21,120
Speaker 1: comes out of this is that like you don't have

2563
02:33:21,440 --> 02:33:25,200
Speaker 1: to have people like destroying their lives a second time

2564
02:33:25,959 --> 02:33:29,240
Speaker 1: in sort of like just out of the incredible desperation

2565
02:33:29,360 --> 02:33:33,000
Speaker 1: of what they've been through, right. Yeah, preventing any of

2566
02:33:33,080 --> 02:33:38,040
Speaker 1: that would be optimal. Yeah, yeah, because the you know,

2567
02:33:38,280 --> 02:33:43,360
Speaker 1: the more that, the longer the Unification Church operates, the

2568
02:33:43,440 --> 02:33:46,119
Speaker 1: more people will be abused and the more violence will

2569
02:33:46,160 --> 02:33:47,680
Speaker 1: come out of it. Like maybe this is the most

2570
02:33:47,840 --> 02:33:51,879
Speaker 1: high profile like a recent bit of violence that's come

2571
02:33:51,920 --> 02:33:57,680
Speaker 1: out of the movement, but it's not unprecedented in any way. So,

2572
02:33:58,240 --> 02:34:03,400
Speaker 1: you know, it's like that's what happens when people are abused. Yeah,

2573
02:34:03,840 --> 02:34:06,280
Speaker 1: and it's I think it's also worth just sort of

2574
02:34:06,440 --> 02:34:10,760
Speaker 1: like reminding people that one of the sort of so

2575
02:34:11,879 --> 02:34:15,640
Speaker 1: the church has sort of splintered into various factions. Yeah,

2576
02:34:16,080 --> 02:34:18,480
Speaker 1: a lot of the people, well, okay, a trump trump

2577
02:34:18,600 --> 02:34:21,760
Speaker 1: gave a speech at like the at an event of

2578
02:34:21,800 --> 02:34:24,920
Speaker 1: the mainline church. A bunch of like so one of

2579
02:34:24,959 --> 02:34:28,480
Speaker 1: the other guys, like one of the other splinter factions,

2580
02:34:28,520 --> 02:34:31,480
Speaker 1: had a bunch of people at January six rot of

2581
02:34:31,520 --> 02:34:36,240
Speaker 1: iron ministries or sanctuary church, and those are those are

2582
02:34:36,280 --> 02:34:40,240
Speaker 1: the guys who had the the A R fifteen gun

2583
02:34:40,400 --> 02:34:42,760
Speaker 1: blessing ceremony a few years ago that made the rounds,

2584
02:34:42,760 --> 02:34:44,840
Speaker 1: where they wore bullet crowns and their robes and they

2585
02:34:44,920 --> 02:34:49,440
Speaker 1: had the guns. And they've also got land in in

2586
02:34:49,760 --> 02:34:54,600
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania and Tennessee and also in Waco, Texas, where they're

2587
02:34:55,160 --> 02:34:59,240
Speaker 1: basically preparing people for war with what Sean Moon has

2588
02:34:59,720 --> 02:35:02,720
Speaker 1: this ribed as something akin to the globalist deep state

2589
02:35:02,720 --> 02:35:05,720
Speaker 1: and Marxists. Uh, I don't know if those are his

2590
02:35:05,800 --> 02:35:08,760
Speaker 1: exact words, but it was something like that. So they're,

2591
02:35:08,800 --> 02:35:10,680
Speaker 1: you know, like they're they have an act of militia.

2592
02:35:11,000 --> 02:35:15,000
Speaker 1: They're preparing for war. That is what the Rod of

2593
02:35:15,080 --> 02:35:19,840
Speaker 1: iron is for them. That is the gun. Um, yeah,

2594
02:35:19,840 --> 02:35:21,440
Speaker 1: and and these are these are the if remember my

2595
02:35:21,680 --> 02:35:23,800
Speaker 1: my stuff on this, right, this is the fashion that

2596
02:35:23,879 --> 02:35:26,720
Speaker 1: owns car arms, right, yes, they do. Yeah, yeah, so

2597
02:35:26,920 --> 02:35:30,000
Speaker 1: they have a gun manufacturer. Now, okay, like, if Robert

2598
02:35:30,040 --> 02:35:32,200
Speaker 1: We're here, Robert will probably start equippling with me about

2599
02:35:32,240 --> 02:35:34,840
Speaker 1: how good, like the equivalent with me about the actual

2600
02:35:34,920 --> 02:35:37,720
Speaker 1: quality of the weapons they produced. But like, okay, they

2601
02:35:37,800 --> 02:35:42,120
Speaker 1: have them, they have they they have a weapons manufacturing peace,

2602
02:35:42,520 --> 02:35:46,119
Speaker 1: which is terrifying. Yeah, and they make the trump gun because,

2603
02:35:46,160 --> 02:35:49,960
Speaker 1: of course they're all super pro trump, very like patriot.

2604
02:35:50,920 --> 02:35:54,000
Speaker 1: A lot of q and on overlap there. And Actually

2605
02:35:54,120 --> 02:35:58,080
Speaker 1: Rod of Iron Ministries UH in in Japan has been

2606
02:35:58,120 --> 02:36:02,920
Speaker 1: helping organize q and on events. Um. And Yeah, so

2607
02:36:03,160 --> 02:36:06,400
Speaker 1: like there was also and so basically the relationship between

2608
02:36:06,480 --> 02:36:12,000
Speaker 1: rode iron and the mainline, you see, is supertense. Sean

2609
02:36:12,160 --> 02:36:14,720
Speaker 1: Moon and a couple of his other brothers basically want

2610
02:36:14,760 --> 02:36:17,120
Speaker 1: their mother dead. And who is? She's the you know,

2611
02:36:17,200 --> 02:36:19,520
Speaker 1: the head of the mainline church right now. Um, and

2612
02:36:19,640 --> 02:36:23,440
Speaker 1: not just dead but like specifically beheaded. Um. So there

2613
02:36:23,600 --> 02:36:27,200
Speaker 1: was an event recently over the summer, I think it

2614
02:36:27,280 --> 02:36:31,400
Speaker 1: was like the end of June, where Uh Sean was, Gosh,

2615
02:36:31,480 --> 02:36:35,080
Speaker 1: I forget, I forget where he was in Japan. Um,

2616
02:36:35,360 --> 02:36:39,640
Speaker 1: but basically he was sort of like railing at the

2617
02:36:39,920 --> 02:36:44,000
Speaker 1: audience for supporting his mother, Hawk to Han uh, and

2618
02:36:44,120 --> 02:36:47,240
Speaker 1: then when people spoke up in defense of her, they

2619
02:36:47,320 --> 02:36:51,240
Speaker 1: were literally like physically thrown out of the room. Um,

2620
02:36:51,480 --> 02:36:57,000
Speaker 1: it was super intense. Yeah, there's yea, yeah, it's it's

2621
02:36:57,040 --> 02:37:00,720
Speaker 1: a really fucking intense moment. Um. And he's like they're

2622
02:37:00,760 --> 02:37:03,400
Speaker 1: saying she had like sex with a demon or something

2623
02:37:03,520 --> 02:37:07,160
Speaker 1: like that and has fallen and all of this. You know, God,

2624
02:37:07,280 --> 02:37:09,400
Speaker 1: like I don't know. Sometimes. I watched a bit of

2625
02:37:09,440 --> 02:37:11,480
Speaker 1: the guy's speeches just because I'm like, I want to

2626
02:37:11,560 --> 02:37:15,560
Speaker 1: know what the funk they're up to. Um. And first

2627
02:37:15,640 --> 02:37:18,320
Speaker 1: of all it seems like he might do a lot

2628
02:37:18,360 --> 02:37:20,760
Speaker 1: of cocaine, which would not be on the precedent had

2629
02:37:20,800 --> 02:37:25,080
Speaker 1: given the moonies and all of their drug smuggling and ship. Well,

2630
02:37:25,240 --> 02:37:28,440
Speaker 1: I mean we we have like, what was his name? I,

2631
02:37:28,879 --> 02:37:32,120
Speaker 1: Oh God, I'm blaming on the name of what? What? What?

2632
02:37:32,280 --> 02:37:35,040
Speaker 1: What of his other sons? was like it was like

2633
02:37:35,200 --> 02:37:40,440
Speaker 1: literally spending like a shell corporations, like net income amount

2634
02:37:40,680 --> 02:37:43,840
Speaker 1: like per month on cocaine. At one point, like was

2635
02:37:43,920 --> 02:37:47,600
Speaker 1: that he o Jen possibly? I think I think it was. Yeah, yeah,

2636
02:37:47,640 --> 02:37:53,080
Speaker 1: I think. Yeah. And he's also enormous abusive piece of ship. Yeah, yeah,

2637
02:37:54,200 --> 02:37:59,840
Speaker 1: it sucks. Yeah, people are all well, okay, that's not

2638
02:38:00,360 --> 02:38:02,600
Speaker 1: the people who are still actively involved in the church

2639
02:38:02,640 --> 02:38:04,920
Speaker 1: and who didn't break themselves out and flee like the

2640
02:38:04,959 --> 02:38:09,880
Speaker 1: first opportunity they got are like enormous pieces of ship. Yeah,

2641
02:38:10,040 --> 02:38:11,440
Speaker 1: I mean because like even at the end of the day,

2642
02:38:11,440 --> 02:38:16,280
Speaker 1: if they're not specifically doing anything that like directly harm somebody,

2643
02:38:16,360 --> 02:38:19,840
Speaker 1: they're giving money to these institutions that do into people

2644
02:38:19,879 --> 02:38:25,200
Speaker 1: who do and giving them support and, you know, reinforcing

2645
02:38:25,280 --> 02:38:27,840
Speaker 1: all of that ship. And then, you know, I mean

2646
02:38:28,240 --> 02:38:30,520
Speaker 1: most of them are just shitty in general too. Yeah,

2647
02:38:31,080 --> 02:38:37,440
Speaker 1: I also like specifically awesome about like, yeah, there there

2648
02:38:37,680 --> 02:38:41,200
Speaker 1: were a couple of people who like got forciably married

2649
02:38:41,240 --> 02:38:44,880
Speaker 1: into the family. Yeah, like left and I don't I

2650
02:38:45,120 --> 02:38:47,080
Speaker 1: do not want people to get to get the impression

2651
02:38:47,160 --> 02:38:51,720
Speaker 1: that I think they're bad, because they're not. Like they got, yeah,

2652
02:38:51,879 --> 02:38:53,840
Speaker 1: really horrible stuff happened to them. They're able to escape me.

2653
02:38:53,920 --> 02:39:00,840
Speaker 1: That's good, but also, Jesus Christ, like yeah, uh, and

2654
02:39:01,000 --> 02:39:05,160
Speaker 1: that's the thing that it's like sometimes hard to talk

2655
02:39:05,320 --> 02:39:08,720
Speaker 1: to like, you know, childhood friends or my family who's

2656
02:39:08,760 --> 02:39:11,880
Speaker 1: still involved, Um, because I feel like it's like, you know,

2657
02:39:12,000 --> 02:39:15,680
Speaker 1: if you're supporting this group, you're implicitly supporting fascism and

2658
02:39:16,000 --> 02:39:20,240
Speaker 1: murder and death squads and rape and all of these

2659
02:39:20,280 --> 02:39:24,000
Speaker 1: awful things. Um, and you know, a lot of members

2660
02:39:24,080 --> 02:39:28,840
Speaker 1: don't know that those bits of history about the church. Um,

2661
02:39:29,280 --> 02:39:31,600
Speaker 1: but if anyone who is listening is in the U C,

2662
02:39:31,840 --> 02:39:34,400
Speaker 1: I would definitely say to look those things up, because

2663
02:39:34,480 --> 02:39:38,640
Speaker 1: they are all over the place. Yeah, okay, so this

2664
02:39:38,800 --> 02:39:43,039
Speaker 1: was specifically. Yeah, I read inside the League by Scott

2665
02:39:43,080 --> 02:39:50,720
Speaker 1: and Lee Anderson. Okay, I I will say this. Yeah,

2666
02:39:51,000 --> 02:39:58,600
Speaker 1: there it is kind of hard to read because these

2667
02:39:58,600 --> 02:40:02,480
Speaker 1: people are journalists. They're not normally book authors, and the

2668
02:40:02,640 --> 02:40:04,800
Speaker 1: idea of starting at the beginning of a story and

2669
02:40:04,840 --> 02:40:06,360
Speaker 1: then moving through to the end of it is like

2670
02:40:06,400 --> 02:40:10,760
Speaker 1: an entirely foreign concept to them. So it is constantly

2671
02:40:10,840 --> 02:40:15,120
Speaker 1: jumping around between sixteen million things. But yeah, there is

2672
02:40:15,120 --> 02:40:16,760
Speaker 1: a lot of there's a lot of very good stuff

2673
02:40:16,760 --> 02:40:21,120
Speaker 1: in there. Yeah, it's an incredible resource. I would also

2674
02:40:21,200 --> 02:40:26,720
Speaker 1: suggest reading, uh, the there's like a a bunch of

2675
02:40:26,840 --> 02:40:31,040
Speaker 1: articles that Robert Parry did from his consortium news about

2676
02:40:31,120 --> 02:40:33,280
Speaker 1: do you see and like stuff back in the day

2677
02:40:33,360 --> 02:40:36,320
Speaker 1: on it. Um, I would also say check out how

2678
02:40:36,400 --> 02:40:40,600
Speaker 1: well do you know your moon? Uh. That's another great resource.

2679
02:40:40,840 --> 02:40:44,200
Speaker 1: Has a lot of you know, like links and direct

2680
02:40:44,959 --> 02:40:49,160
Speaker 1: citations of a bunch of documents and ship uh, all

2681
02:40:49,240 --> 02:40:55,240
Speaker 1: good stuff. Also, I would plug John Gorenfeld's book. Um, oh,

2682
02:40:55,280 --> 02:40:59,200
Speaker 1: it's called it's been bad, bad moon rising, bad moon rising. Yes, yeah,

2683
02:40:59,280 --> 02:41:03,280
Speaker 1: John is gray. He yeah, it's it's another really good

2684
02:41:03,320 --> 02:41:05,720
Speaker 1: book on that. Yeah, I think there's a new edition

2685
02:41:05,800 --> 02:41:08,360
Speaker 1: came out like very recently. Yeah, so I think he

2686
02:41:08,520 --> 02:41:10,640
Speaker 1: has it, actually a pdf of it or something for

2687
02:41:10,760 --> 02:41:14,320
Speaker 1: free on his website. Um, yeah, uh. And then another

2688
02:41:14,360 --> 02:41:18,200
Speaker 1: book I would suggest is gifts of deceit about the

2689
02:41:18,240 --> 02:41:24,280
Speaker 1: Thompson Park Scandal and care a gate. Another good one. God. Yeah,

2690
02:41:25,760 --> 02:41:29,480
Speaker 1: the thing about the MoD is like there's just like

2691
02:41:30,000 --> 02:41:34,640
Speaker 1: entire like there's entire genres of like crime that they

2692
02:41:34,760 --> 02:41:39,440
Speaker 1: do that like doesn't even like make most accounts of

2693
02:41:39,520 --> 02:41:42,760
Speaker 1: them because they're doing too much other crime. Yeah, literally,

2694
02:41:42,840 --> 02:41:45,840
Speaker 1: there's just so much crime too for there isn't just

2695
02:41:45,920 --> 02:41:48,040
Speaker 1: done so much that it's hard to keep track of everything.

2696
02:41:48,959 --> 02:41:52,279
Speaker 1: They literally have a million shell corporations and they literally

2697
02:41:52,360 --> 02:41:55,680
Speaker 1: do things unser different names and in different places and

2698
02:41:55,760 --> 02:41:58,320
Speaker 1: then different types of atrocities that it's like how are

2699
02:41:58,360 --> 02:42:00,400
Speaker 1: you supposed to keep up with all this? That's why

2700
02:42:00,480 --> 02:42:02,160
Speaker 1: they do it that way, because you're not supposed to.

2701
02:42:02,400 --> 02:42:05,880
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean it is, I don't know, like

2702
02:42:09,520 --> 02:42:13,200
Speaker 1: figuring out how intelligence operations work is like easier than

2703
02:42:13,320 --> 02:42:17,120
Speaker 1: like trying to untangle this ship. Yeah, honestly like that that.

2704
02:42:17,360 --> 02:42:20,680
Speaker 1: That stuff was, you know, a little more on the nose.

2705
02:42:20,800 --> 02:42:22,840
Speaker 1: It's like, Oh yeah, clearly this is like a joint

2706
02:42:22,879 --> 02:42:27,040
Speaker 1: psychological operation and other like, you know, back channels for

2707
02:42:27,200 --> 02:42:30,720
Speaker 1: money and trafficking things and people and stuff. But then

2708
02:42:30,760 --> 02:42:34,480
Speaker 1: it's like, Oh God, What Company owns what? And how

2709
02:42:34,600 --> 02:42:37,200
Speaker 1: much do they make and like where do they move

2710
02:42:37,280 --> 02:42:41,360
Speaker 1: their money around? It's just like, I don't know. That's

2711
02:42:41,480 --> 02:42:45,240
Speaker 1: that side is like, how do I navigate this? Yeah,

2712
02:42:46,400 --> 02:42:49,280
Speaker 1: so I am extremely fortunate to be a part of

2713
02:42:49,360 --> 02:42:52,480
Speaker 1: a group of people who's working on this stuff. Now, Um,

2714
02:42:53,959 --> 02:42:57,120
Speaker 1: you know, we're gonna what we're going to try to

2715
02:42:57,200 --> 02:42:59,959
Speaker 1: do is sort of make like a Unification Church wikipedia

2716
02:43:00,080 --> 02:43:02,440
Speaker 1: kind of thing so that we have like all of

2717
02:43:02,480 --> 02:43:04,600
Speaker 1: it in one place and then, you know, potentially down

2718
02:43:04,640 --> 02:43:06,400
Speaker 1: the line maybe do like a people's history of the

2719
02:43:06,480 --> 02:43:10,320
Speaker 1: Unification Church or something like that, but in the meantime

2720
02:43:10,400 --> 02:43:14,280
Speaker 1: we're just compiling a bunch of information. Yeah, are there

2721
02:43:14,320 --> 02:43:17,320
Speaker 1: ways people can support you? And it also can support

2722
02:43:17,360 --> 02:43:21,080
Speaker 1: deprogramming imperialism in this the work you all have been doing. Yeah,

2723
02:43:21,240 --> 02:43:24,640
Speaker 1: so I have a patreon. It's a Lisa Majub a

2724
02:43:24,920 --> 02:43:27,160
Speaker 1: L I S A M A H J O U

2725
02:43:27,280 --> 02:43:31,240
Speaker 1: B uh. You can follow me on twitter at Alisa

2726
02:43:31,400 --> 02:43:37,640
Speaker 1: Underscore Majub same spelling. Uh. deprogramming imperialism has a twitter. Uh,

2727
02:43:38,000 --> 02:43:41,320
Speaker 1: it is, since deprogramming imperialism was not. was too long

2728
02:43:41,440 --> 02:43:44,400
Speaker 1: to put in as a user name. The one we

2729
02:43:44,720 --> 02:43:49,240
Speaker 1: are using is no more cults, which is no underscore,

2730
02:43:49,400 --> 02:43:54,879
Speaker 1: more underscore cults, Um. And then we have a instagram

2731
02:43:55,120 --> 02:43:58,760
Speaker 1: as well, under deprogramming imperialism, I believe. Let me double check,

2732
02:44:01,760 --> 02:44:06,840
Speaker 1: M Hm, and we will. We will put links to

2733
02:44:06,879 --> 02:44:13,960
Speaker 1: all this stuff in the show notes. Yeah, awesome, cool, cool, cool. Yeah,

2734
02:44:14,000 --> 02:44:21,039
Speaker 1: it's do programming imperialism. Just together, together words. Sorry, it's

2735
02:44:21,120 --> 02:44:27,320
Speaker 1: just not working. The words are smashed together. There's no space.

2736
02:44:27,480 --> 02:44:34,240
Speaker 1: That's that's. There we go. I did it. Yeah, well,

2737
02:44:34,320 --> 02:44:35,960
Speaker 1: I I think. I think. I think that's going to

2738
02:44:36,000 --> 02:44:38,600
Speaker 1: be all for us today. Um, thank you so so

2739
02:44:38,760 --> 02:44:41,600
Speaker 1: much for joining us. Thank you for having me. I

2740
02:44:41,680 --> 02:44:44,880
Speaker 1: really appreciate this and hopefully, you know, this will just

2741
02:44:45,959 --> 02:44:48,840
Speaker 1: have helped more people to sort of like understand what's

2742
02:44:48,879 --> 02:44:50,680
Speaker 1: going on there and sort of the history of the

2743
02:44:50,800 --> 02:44:52,960
Speaker 1: U C and uh, as well as, you know, maybe

2744
02:44:52,959 --> 02:44:56,280
Speaker 1: shine some light on the obbeys assassination and UH. You know,

2745
02:44:56,800 --> 02:44:59,320
Speaker 1: the more people who know about this, the better, I think. Um,

2746
02:44:59,400 --> 02:45:02,600
Speaker 1: so I really she ate being on here because you

2747
02:45:02,640 --> 02:45:04,680
Speaker 1: guys have a pretty big platform. So that means a

2748
02:45:04,720 --> 02:45:07,879
Speaker 1: lot to me. Yeah, and I'm I'm I'm really I'm really,

2749
02:45:07,920 --> 02:45:11,320
Speaker 1: really glad that that you came on for this, because

2750
02:45:12,400 --> 02:45:15,760
Speaker 1: I don't know, like it's it's really like it's really

2751
02:45:15,800 --> 02:45:18,360
Speaker 1: easy to like cover stuff like this and just never

2752
02:45:19,640 --> 02:45:22,200
Speaker 1: actually sort of like get to the human, like the

2753
02:45:22,280 --> 02:45:27,000
Speaker 1: actual human impact of it. Yeah, and so, yeah, I'm

2754
02:45:27,040 --> 02:45:29,560
Speaker 1: really glad I was able to talk to you. Thank you.

2755
02:45:29,720 --> 02:45:31,760
Speaker 1: I yeah, I'm glad I was able to talk to

2756
02:45:31,879 --> 02:45:33,880
Speaker 1: because that it was fun. It was fun, it was

2757
02:45:33,959 --> 02:45:37,360
Speaker 1: informative and getting the word out. We're doing it, we're

2758
02:45:37,400 --> 02:45:52,760
Speaker 1: doing the thing. Yeah, yeah, it feels good. On pictures

2759
02:45:52,800 --> 02:45:55,880
Speaker 1: of Alexandrow dooking moments after his daughter exploded in a

2760
02:45:56,000 --> 02:46:03,720
Speaker 1: car bomb. Again, I don't have any problems beating puppies.

2761
02:46:04,440 --> 02:46:08,480
Speaker 1: Oh No, this is recorded. Welcome to it could happen here,

2762
02:46:08,560 --> 02:46:14,400
Speaker 1: the podcast where Garrettson Davis is fine with violence against dogs. Yeah, right,

2763
02:46:14,480 --> 02:46:23,480
Speaker 1: as wow, cancellable, cancellable. deathly allergic to dogs, but they

2764
02:46:23,560 --> 02:46:26,280
Speaker 1: love you so much. So if people were people were

2765
02:46:26,320 --> 02:46:28,800
Speaker 1: going to pick an assassination method for me just to

2766
02:46:29,080 --> 02:46:31,440
Speaker 1: get a whole bunch of dog Dander and rub it

2767
02:46:31,520 --> 02:46:33,400
Speaker 1: on my pillow and I'll be dead with I'll be

2768
02:46:33,480 --> 02:46:35,840
Speaker 1: dead the next morning. I've I've seen you get rubbed

2769
02:46:35,879 --> 02:46:37,840
Speaker 1: on by a bunch of dogs and you've you've never

2770
02:46:37,959 --> 02:46:41,920
Speaker 1: died yet. No, yeah, that's get uncomfortable and you have

2771
02:46:42,000 --> 02:46:44,440
Speaker 1: to use your inhaler and it's you know, but I don't.

2772
02:46:44,520 --> 02:46:47,480
Speaker 1: I just I just ignore that. You get uncomfortable and

2773
02:46:47,600 --> 02:46:50,400
Speaker 1: you have to use your in Halor. Robert's like, that's great,

2774
02:46:50,480 --> 02:46:54,680
Speaker 1: I'm super thrilled with that outcome. You know what? Other

2775
02:46:54,879 --> 02:47:05,640
Speaker 1: outcome I'm thrilled with. Oh good, so sick. Transition. So

2776
02:47:06,080 --> 02:47:12,000
Speaker 1: we are talking about the assassination of Alexander Dugan's daughter. It's,

2777
02:47:12,160 --> 02:47:14,640
Speaker 1: it's a it's a it's it's kind of a wild story.

2778
02:47:14,800 --> 02:47:17,480
Speaker 1: There's a lot of weird things going on. We still

2779
02:47:17,600 --> 02:47:21,960
Speaker 1: don't know much about what actually happened. Um, there's a

2780
02:47:22,000 --> 02:47:24,600
Speaker 1: lot of conflicting theories, a lot of experts who are

2781
02:47:24,640 --> 02:47:29,320
Speaker 1: saying different things. Quote Unquote experts who are saying different things. Uh,

2782
02:47:29,480 --> 02:47:31,680
Speaker 1: it's it's wild. But I have a little right up

2783
02:47:31,680 --> 02:47:33,920
Speaker 1: here that we're going to go through based on what

2784
02:47:34,000 --> 02:47:38,400
Speaker 1: I assume everyone's questions will be about this assassination. UH,

2785
02:47:38,680 --> 02:47:41,800
Speaker 1: first thing, probably before we before we get into Alexander

2786
02:47:41,840 --> 02:47:45,640
Speaker 1: Dugan's daughter. I guess it's probably worth clarifying who Alexander

2787
02:47:45,680 --> 02:47:49,520
Speaker 1: Dugan is because to understand the nature of this assassination

2788
02:47:49,600 --> 02:47:53,360
Speaker 1: and possible motives, it's important to know who he is

2789
02:47:53,440 --> 02:47:56,360
Speaker 1: as a person. So I know we've talked about Dugan

2790
02:47:56,440 --> 02:47:59,720
Speaker 1: on the show before kind of briefly, but Alexander Dugan

2791
02:47:59,840 --> 02:48:05,440
Speaker 1: is Russian traditionalist, neo fascist, political theorist. Um. Some people

2792
02:48:05,480 --> 02:48:12,760
Speaker 1: call him a philosopher. I think that's being a little generous. Son. Yeah, yeah,

2793
02:48:15,320 --> 02:48:18,280
Speaker 1: he was born in nineteen sixty two into a high

2794
02:48:18,320 --> 02:48:21,760
Speaker 1: ranking military family and a Dugan spent his early years

2795
02:48:22,000 --> 02:48:26,000
Speaker 1: as an anti communist dissident in the collapsing Soviet Union.

2796
02:48:27,240 --> 02:48:32,560
Speaker 1: He joined various dissident ultra nationalist, occult Andy Semitic and

2797
02:48:32,800 --> 02:48:36,039
Speaker 1: Fascist groups or collectives that sprung up during the last

2798
02:48:36,400 --> 02:48:39,560
Speaker 1: two decades of the Soviet Union. Uh, in the nineties

2799
02:48:39,800 --> 02:48:42,480
Speaker 1: he was one of the founders of the Russian National

2800
02:48:42,560 --> 02:48:46,480
Speaker 1: Bolshevik Party, which he left in the late nineties because

2801
02:48:46,600 --> 02:48:49,760
Speaker 1: the party was not fascist enough. Um. So he he

2802
02:48:49,920 --> 02:48:53,080
Speaker 1: left the political party he helped, he helped start because

2803
02:48:53,240 --> 02:48:56,480
Speaker 1: it was it had too many of the Bolshevik parts

2804
02:48:56,760 --> 02:49:01,360
Speaker 1: of the National Bolshevik Party. Um, he, he, kind of

2805
02:49:01,520 --> 02:49:06,040
Speaker 1: carries on some of the traditionalist political philosophy from Twentieth

2806
02:49:06,040 --> 02:49:10,200
Speaker 1: Century Esoteric Fascist writers like Julius Cevola, whose book on

2807
02:49:10,440 --> 02:49:15,199
Speaker 1: Pagan Imperialism Dugan translated into Russian, just as a brief

2808
02:49:15,240 --> 02:49:19,800
Speaker 1: bit of context for people. Now you know they're fascism

2809
02:49:19,920 --> 02:49:23,920
Speaker 1: and communism are are portrayed as in strict, strict opposition

2810
02:49:24,000 --> 02:49:25,520
Speaker 1: to each other. But if we're going back to the

2811
02:49:25,560 --> 02:49:28,400
Speaker 1: twenties and thirties, a lot of these guys had a

2812
02:49:28,480 --> 02:49:30,400
Speaker 1: lot of things in common. There were times where the

2813
02:49:30,440 --> 02:49:33,040
Speaker 1: Communist Party of Germany and the Nazis would fight the

2814
02:49:33,120 --> 02:49:37,640
Speaker 1: cops together. Um, there were people in the Nazi party

2815
02:49:37,720 --> 02:49:41,000
Speaker 1: who were more or less national bolsheviks in terms of

2816
02:49:41,040 --> 02:49:44,080
Speaker 1: their political outlook. Um, and they were all murdered on

2817
02:49:44,160 --> 02:49:46,480
Speaker 1: the night of long knives. Like the Nazi party had

2818
02:49:46,520 --> 02:49:48,720
Speaker 1: a left wing that it purged. Anyway. This is just like,

2819
02:49:49,080 --> 02:49:51,040
Speaker 1: this is not coming out of nowhere, this isn't a

2820
02:49:51,080 --> 02:49:53,600
Speaker 1: new development. Well, and the thing with Dugan is that

2821
02:49:53,720 --> 02:49:56,000
Speaker 1: he really is does carry on that type of Red

2822
02:49:56,080 --> 02:49:59,240
Speaker 1: Brown alliance idea with a lot of his politics of

2823
02:49:59,520 --> 02:50:02,920
Speaker 1: of of bringing together some of the more harder fascists

2824
02:50:03,440 --> 02:50:07,600
Speaker 1: with some people who are more like authoritarian Communists, Um,

2825
02:50:07,760 --> 02:50:10,520
Speaker 1: and we see that with the National Bolshevik party at

2826
02:50:10,560 --> 02:50:14,400
Speaker 1: this point. Dugan is probably most known for his influence

2827
02:50:14,520 --> 02:50:21,160
Speaker 1: on Contemporary Russian politics, the NEO Eurasianism ideology, his writing

2828
02:50:21,320 --> 02:50:24,199
Speaker 1: on the multi pole or world theory and his fourth

2829
02:50:24,240 --> 02:50:28,640
Speaker 1: political theory about the ascension of Russia as the world's

2830
02:50:28,680 --> 02:50:32,680
Speaker 1: like traditionalist political power, Um, and usurping the kind of

2831
02:50:33,120 --> 02:50:38,879
Speaker 1: political dominance of the United States. And Dugan's Neo Eurasianism

2832
02:50:39,040 --> 02:50:44,240
Speaker 1: is described by Antonov, an eastern European far right scholar, as, quote,

2833
02:50:44,640 --> 02:50:47,360
Speaker 1: a form of Fascist ideology centered on the idea of

2834
02:50:47,440 --> 02:50:52,280
Speaker 1: revolutionizing the Russian society and building a tolitarian, Russian dominated

2835
02:50:52,400 --> 02:50:57,480
Speaker 1: Eurasian Empire that would challenge and eventually defeat its eternal adversary,

2836
02:50:57,560 --> 02:51:02,520
Speaker 1: represented by the United States and it's atlanticist allies, less

2837
02:51:02,520 --> 02:51:06,240
Speaker 1: springing about a new golden age of global political and

2838
02:51:06,400 --> 02:51:13,000
Speaker 1: cultural illiberalism, unquote. So it's it's very centered in just

2839
02:51:13,160 --> 02:51:17,440
Speaker 1: being against the ideas of liberalism and being against like

2840
02:51:18,080 --> 02:51:23,480
Speaker 1: globalist liberalism, like actual like globalization, Um, and still carrying

2841
02:51:23,520 --> 02:51:26,680
Speaker 1: over a lot of influences from esoteric writers like Julias

2842
02:51:26,680 --> 02:51:29,720
Speaker 1: Seviola in terms of like kids, anti modern, anti liberal

2843
02:51:30,640 --> 02:51:37,879
Speaker 1: politics based in like traditional, anti multicultural right, like this this. Yeah, yeah,

2844
02:51:38,120 --> 02:51:40,000
Speaker 1: a lot of if you've ever seen someone screaming about

2845
02:51:40,000 --> 02:51:43,840
Speaker 1: like Global Homo or something like, that's probably one of

2846
02:51:43,920 --> 02:51:48,200
Speaker 1: these guys. Yeah, and that that Dugan's daughter actually, in

2847
02:51:48,320 --> 02:51:50,800
Speaker 1: her last ever interview, talks about that a little bit

2848
02:51:50,959 --> 02:51:56,560
Speaker 1: and we're yeah, yeah, like the like. There's there's there's

2849
02:51:56,640 --> 02:51:58,440
Speaker 1: there's a lot of people in the US who like

2850
02:51:58,680 --> 02:52:01,360
Speaker 1: see this ship and like this take it for anti imperialism,

2851
02:52:01,440 --> 02:52:04,680
Speaker 1: and it's basically because like they've lost the ability to

2852
02:52:04,800 --> 02:52:08,680
Speaker 1: like conceive of an empire that isn't the US, Britain

2853
02:52:08,760 --> 02:52:12,320
Speaker 1: or France, and even that's tenuous, and it's like guys

2854
02:52:12,560 --> 02:52:14,840
Speaker 1: like from a lot of these civil accounts, you get

2855
02:52:14,840 --> 02:52:17,240
Speaker 1: the attitude that, like, well, only the United States is

2856
02:52:17,280 --> 02:52:20,480
Speaker 1: capable of being imperialism, which is then just then just

2857
02:52:20,600 --> 02:52:23,600
Speaker 1: say you're anti us, just say you're anti the United States,

2858
02:52:23,640 --> 02:52:27,000
Speaker 1: because you're not anti imperialism, because, let me tell you something,

2859
02:52:27,480 --> 02:52:32,240
Speaker 1: there's been a lot of empires in history. Controversial statement

2860
02:52:32,280 --> 02:52:36,879
Speaker 1: from Robert Evans. Quite quite a few different empires over time.

2861
02:52:37,280 --> 02:52:40,960
Speaker 1: They're not all. America press probably worth like pointing out

2862
02:52:41,000 --> 02:52:43,680
Speaker 1: the Russia asset exists. Is An empire, right, it's just

2863
02:52:43,800 --> 02:52:48,520
Speaker 1: a contiguous one. It's it's one that that is joined

2864
02:52:48,600 --> 02:52:52,360
Speaker 1: by land separated by seas. Doesn't still be being an empire? Yes,

2865
02:52:53,440 --> 02:52:55,360
Speaker 1: as as we can see, with them trying to expand

2866
02:52:55,360 --> 02:52:59,000
Speaker 1: into Ukraine, which is heavily influenced itself by some of

2867
02:52:59,160 --> 02:53:02,560
Speaker 1: the theory that Dugan was writing from the nineties up

2868
02:53:02,600 --> 02:53:05,560
Speaker 1: until now, Um and then, kind of in reference to

2869
02:53:05,640 --> 02:53:10,120
Speaker 1: Dugan's influence on contemporary Russian politics, especially since Russia's so

2870
02:53:10,240 --> 02:53:14,160
Speaker 1: far failed invasion of Ukraine, Dugan is often referred to

2871
02:53:14,280 --> 02:53:19,680
Speaker 1: as quote unquote, Putin's brain or, quote unquote, Putin's Resputin Um.

2872
02:53:20,080 --> 02:53:25,400
Speaker 1: And while he is connected and has and while he

2873
02:53:25,600 --> 02:53:27,800
Speaker 1: is certainly well connected and has quite a bit of

2874
02:53:27,879 --> 02:53:30,920
Speaker 1: influence in Russia and the global far right movement in general,

2875
02:53:31,600 --> 02:53:35,240
Speaker 1: the degree to which he holds significant power in the

2876
02:53:35,360 --> 02:53:40,640
Speaker 1: decisions that Putin makes is definitely heavily contested among actual

2877
02:53:40,680 --> 02:53:45,240
Speaker 1: political experts. We think some of the whole Putin's brain

2878
02:53:45,320 --> 02:53:48,480
Speaker 1: and Putin's like resputent thing is a little bit over emphasis,

2879
02:53:48,879 --> 02:53:53,240
Speaker 1: over emphasized with sometimes Dugan's never held office. There's Dan

2880
02:53:54,480 --> 02:53:56,680
Speaker 1: Dugan's never we we, we, we don't even have a

2881
02:53:56,760 --> 02:53:59,880
Speaker 1: picture of Dugan and Putin together, like we don't even

2882
02:54:00,000 --> 02:54:02,760
Speaker 1: oh they've actually like been in the same room. We

2883
02:54:02,800 --> 02:54:08,280
Speaker 1: don't know if the same person, the same person. Yes,

2884
02:54:08,840 --> 02:54:12,560
Speaker 1: that's correct, Chris. The thing that is important to know

2885
02:54:12,680 --> 02:54:16,440
Speaker 1: about Putin as regards Dugan because again, as garrison said,

2886
02:54:16,760 --> 02:54:19,039
Speaker 1: not trying to make a statement here about the degree,

2887
02:54:19,440 --> 02:54:21,360
Speaker 1: like saying that he is or is not any kind

2888
02:54:21,440 --> 02:54:24,959
Speaker 1: of influence. But Vladimir Putin has been doing this, has

2889
02:54:25,000 --> 02:54:28,480
Speaker 1: been working towards the where he is now for decades

2890
02:54:29,160 --> 02:54:31,200
Speaker 1: and is a guy who has had a view of

2891
02:54:31,320 --> 02:54:35,400
Speaker 1: the world for decades that he's worked towards making real

2892
02:54:36,040 --> 02:54:37,560
Speaker 1: um and it's not a view of the world that

2893
02:54:37,640 --> 02:54:40,440
Speaker 1: you need to be. Dugan's an esotericist, like you do

2894
02:54:40,560 --> 02:54:43,160
Speaker 1: not need to think Esoteric Lee to understand what Vladimir

2895
02:54:43,200 --> 02:54:46,560
Speaker 1: Putin is doing. He wants to reunite the Russian imperial

2896
02:54:46,720 --> 02:54:49,680
Speaker 1: project that fell apart when the Soviet Union did, using

2897
02:54:49,840 --> 02:54:52,280
Speaker 1: violence and whatever other means he can do, which is

2898
02:54:52,680 --> 02:54:55,840
Speaker 1: why he's gone done what he's done in Georgia. Um

2899
02:54:56,000 --> 02:54:58,440
Speaker 1: It's why he's done doing what he's doing in Ukraine.

2900
02:54:58,480 --> 02:55:01,360
Speaker 1: This is not like complicated and Standing Putin's motivations are

2901
02:55:01,520 --> 02:55:03,680
Speaker 1: is not hard. You know, I think a lot of

2902
02:55:03,760 --> 02:55:07,680
Speaker 1: people have kind of leaned into that Putin's brain thing,

2903
02:55:07,800 --> 02:55:11,080
Speaker 1: especially since the invasion of Ukraine, because in in Dugan's

2904
02:55:11,360 --> 02:55:16,040
Speaker 1: seminal nineteen nineties seven book, the foundations of geopolitics, Dugan

2905
02:55:16,120 --> 02:55:19,760
Speaker 1: lays out his vision to divide the world up and

2906
02:55:19,920 --> 02:55:24,920
Speaker 1: calling for Russia to rebuild this influence through annexations and alliances. Well,

2907
02:55:25,160 --> 02:55:29,520
Speaker 1: all in a heavy opposition to Ukraine as a sovereign state,

2908
02:55:29,600 --> 02:55:32,000
Speaker 1: and a lot of Dugan's writing has been about trying

2909
02:55:32,040 --> 02:55:36,160
Speaker 1: to reconquer Ukraine and absorb it into Russia. Um, yeah,

2910
02:55:36,240 --> 02:55:39,520
Speaker 1: and he's a useful guy, but yeah, I guess. And

2911
02:55:39,640 --> 02:55:43,560
Speaker 1: and like the the in an article from the from

2912
02:55:43,600 --> 02:55:46,800
Speaker 1: the Guardian, that I was I was using for one

2913
02:55:46,840 --> 02:55:49,600
Speaker 1: of the sources for this episode. They they claim that

2914
02:55:49,879 --> 02:55:53,720
Speaker 1: the foundations of geopolitics was a very popular book in

2915
02:55:53,760 --> 02:55:57,360
Speaker 1: the Russian General Staff Academy Um and kind of was.

2916
02:55:57,879 --> 02:56:01,120
Speaker 1: Was One of the things that shifted Dugan from like

2917
02:56:01,200 --> 02:56:05,640
Speaker 1: a weird esoteric dissident to actually becoming a more influential

2918
02:56:05,879 --> 02:56:10,040
Speaker 1: and prominent pillar of the conservative establishment inside Russia. Um,

2919
02:56:10,240 --> 02:56:14,200
Speaker 1: as as Dugan's writing evolved, started to emphasize less, the

2920
02:56:14,320 --> 02:56:18,400
Speaker 1: more esoteric elements his writing did, did get more popular

2921
02:56:18,440 --> 02:56:21,640
Speaker 1: in Russia. Um, but at this point he is stronger

2922
02:56:21,720 --> 02:56:25,280
Speaker 1: as a symbol, uh less so than having actual personal

2923
02:56:25,360 --> 02:56:28,920
Speaker 1: influence over decision making. You know what does have influence

2924
02:56:29,000 --> 02:56:32,879
Speaker 1: of your decision making? They have influence of your decision making.

2925
02:56:33,160 --> 02:56:36,920
Speaker 1: You're you're the sub the subliminal messages that we've been

2926
02:56:36,959 --> 02:56:41,040
Speaker 1: placing insider ads for the past three years. Um. That

2927
02:56:41,280 --> 02:56:43,920
Speaker 1: leads that that has been an esotary project, of of

2928
02:56:44,080 --> 02:56:46,720
Speaker 1: of my design to to influence you to buy these

2929
02:56:46,760 --> 02:56:50,120
Speaker 1: products and services. That's right, James, I'm I'm trying to

2930
02:56:50,720 --> 02:56:53,000
Speaker 1: I think we have a couple of different esoteric projects.

2931
02:56:53,000 --> 02:56:55,080
Speaker 1: I'm not sure what Y'alls is. I'm trying to get

2932
02:56:55,120 --> 02:56:57,600
Speaker 1: people to bring the Subaru Baja back. That was the

2933
02:56:57,640 --> 02:57:00,800
Speaker 1: super a little truck. Bet in the back it was

2934
02:57:01,040 --> 02:57:06,240
Speaker 1: the my God, how can yeah, I was gonna come

2935
02:57:06,280 --> 02:57:08,760
Speaker 1: speaking of one word, but I realized when that was

2936
02:57:08,840 --> 02:57:11,800
Speaker 1: taking me and I stared up to me. It is

2937
02:57:11,840 --> 02:57:14,240
Speaker 1: a cup. Yeah, it is a cuck. It's my second

2938
02:57:14,280 --> 02:57:17,800
Speaker 1: favorite cup. Why didn't they call it the Superu cuck,

2939
02:57:17,920 --> 02:57:24,120
Speaker 1: and I would buy one immediately. Yeah, the Super Yah,

2940
02:57:24,240 --> 02:57:29,120
Speaker 1: please buy, please, by Super Cuck. Enjoy these adverts and

2941
02:57:29,360 --> 02:57:32,920
Speaker 1: we're back. All right, so let's I think it's now

2942
02:57:32,959 --> 02:57:38,080
Speaker 1: actually time to talk about the the actual casualty, this assassination,

2943
02:57:38,920 --> 02:57:46,600
Speaker 1: which is got Alexander Dugan instead Daria, Daria dead, Gaina

2944
02:57:46,720 --> 02:57:50,840
Speaker 1: more like it. Yeah, so she was. She was. She

2945
02:57:50,959 --> 02:57:58,879
Speaker 1: was born on December fift Daria herself was a Russian

2946
02:57:58,920 --> 02:58:02,400
Speaker 1: journalist and far right activist who was very vocal in

2947
02:58:02,520 --> 02:58:06,000
Speaker 1: support of their journalists. Well, I mean yeah, she, she.

2948
02:58:06,480 --> 02:58:09,400
Speaker 1: She did work for a number of journalists, of journalism outlets,

2949
02:58:09,440 --> 02:58:12,080
Speaker 1: not only Russia, including in France, like she she, she did.

2950
02:58:12,520 --> 02:58:15,840
Speaker 1: She was a journalist. Um, she did work. It wasn't

2951
02:58:15,920 --> 02:58:19,520
Speaker 1: very good. She's a bad person, um, but she worked

2952
02:58:19,560 --> 02:58:22,600
Speaker 1: for a few French outlets. Um, she was very vocal

2953
02:58:22,720 --> 02:58:25,080
Speaker 1: in support of the invasion of Ukraine. In accordance with

2954
02:58:25,160 --> 02:58:29,880
Speaker 1: her father's political theories. She studied at the Moscow State University,

2955
02:58:29,920 --> 02:58:33,960
Speaker 1: specializing in the political philosophy of late Neo platonism. So

2956
02:58:34,080 --> 02:58:37,400
Speaker 1: you already know she's going to be really annoying. Anyone

2957
02:58:37,520 --> 02:58:41,080
Speaker 1: if it tries to describe that degree program to me,

2958
02:58:41,280 --> 02:58:46,800
Speaker 1: I might hit them like absolutely no, yea, we, we, we, we, we, we.

2959
02:58:46,959 --> 02:58:50,000
Speaker 1: We have, in that one sentence alone, laid out justification

2960
02:58:50,120 --> 02:58:55,280
Speaker 1: for assassination. Okay, well, okay, come on, I think I

2961
02:58:55,360 --> 02:58:59,200
Speaker 1: think that's a bit too far. I'm gonna say right

2962
02:58:59,240 --> 02:59:03,040
Speaker 1: now bought property with land so that when people say

2963
02:59:03,120 --> 02:59:05,960
Speaker 1: the word Neo platonism around me I can get rid

2964
02:59:06,000 --> 02:59:10,800
Speaker 1: of the body. So, Um, here's some fun facts about

2965
02:59:11,560 --> 02:59:15,960
Speaker 1: about Daria. She played the flute. Um, she was, she

2966
02:59:16,120 --> 02:59:18,959
Speaker 1: was in her she was in a band, I think

2967
02:59:19,040 --> 02:59:23,960
Speaker 1: in college, uh, called Dason may refuse, which was an

2968
02:59:23,959 --> 02:59:29,440
Speaker 1: electronic music band. Now, Dason did actually rock. It probably

2969
02:59:29,480 --> 02:59:32,440
Speaker 1: did slaugh of I mean like and this. And this

2970
02:59:32,640 --> 02:59:35,520
Speaker 1: was when she was less of a fascist actually. Um, now,

2971
02:59:36,000 --> 02:59:39,160
Speaker 1: just in terms of something that kind of an interesting

2972
02:59:39,240 --> 02:59:44,440
Speaker 1: note here. So dason translates to here, being, which was,

2973
02:59:44,720 --> 02:59:48,440
Speaker 1: which is one of Alexander Dugan's favorite favorite terms. It's

2974
02:59:48,520 --> 02:59:57,440
Speaker 1: it's related to the philosophical concepts, uh, upposed by Martin Heideger. Yes, uh, so, it's.

2975
02:59:57,520 --> 03:00:00,440
Speaker 1: It's just a little nerdy reference to both her father.

2976
03:00:00,800 --> 03:00:02,959
Speaker 1: I guess she was probably exposed to the phrase via

2977
03:00:03,040 --> 03:00:06,039
Speaker 1: her father, but it's a hideger reference. So she named

2978
03:00:06,320 --> 03:00:11,080
Speaker 1: her electronic music band off of hider. If you're tried

2979
03:00:11,160 --> 03:00:14,840
Speaker 1: to kill her ghost now, which is pretty funny. Yeah, yeah,

2980
03:00:14,920 --> 03:00:16,640
Speaker 1: if you're in a band with a hiding a reference

2981
03:00:16,640 --> 03:00:21,400
Speaker 1: to leave that band now. But but yeah, when she

2982
03:00:21,560 --> 03:00:24,880
Speaker 1: when she was in the university, her friends say she

2983
03:00:25,040 --> 03:00:28,360
Speaker 1: actually she actually wasn't really into her dad or her

2984
03:00:28,480 --> 03:00:32,560
Speaker 1: dad's politics. Um, her her friends talk about that. When

2985
03:00:32,600 --> 03:00:35,240
Speaker 1: she when she was in university, she really liked Um,

2986
03:00:36,040 --> 03:00:39,080
Speaker 1: guide to board. Um, she was interested in some of

2987
03:00:39,160 --> 03:00:43,640
Speaker 1: the more yeah, like just just quickly, it's like a

2988
03:00:43,760 --> 03:00:46,440
Speaker 1: lot of popular stuff on the left now ship like

2989
03:00:46,520 --> 03:00:49,840
Speaker 1: a crime thing, but also stuff like Um, AD busters

2990
03:00:49,959 --> 03:00:52,000
Speaker 1: is influenced by guide to boy. Yeah, I mean also

2991
03:00:52,080 --> 03:01:02,960
Speaker 1: like the French Revolution in yeah, to for hundred and

2992
03:01:03,040 --> 03:01:07,000
Speaker 1: twenty years and never aged. He was also, I will

2993
03:01:07,040 --> 03:01:08,520
Speaker 1: say this is a thing a lot of people don't

2994
03:01:08,520 --> 03:01:11,320
Speaker 1: know about. The board was influential in the development of

2995
03:01:11,400 --> 03:01:14,400
Speaker 1: war games and and is part of the intellectual tradition

2996
03:01:14,480 --> 03:01:17,840
Speaker 1: that gave us warhammer. That that that actually makes a

2997
03:01:17,920 --> 03:01:22,480
Speaker 1: lot of sense. It makes it. It makes complete sense. Yeah, yeah,

2998
03:01:23,000 --> 03:01:25,040
Speaker 1: but but yeah, so she was. She was into stuff

2999
03:01:25,080 --> 03:01:34,000
Speaker 1: like that inside and yeah, I don't think. I don't

3000
03:01:34,040 --> 03:01:36,720
Speaker 1: think she would have described herself as that. Um, but

3001
03:01:36,840 --> 03:01:39,080
Speaker 1: that was the types of stuff that she liked talking

3002
03:01:39,120 --> 03:01:41,600
Speaker 1: about and that was the types of groups that she

3003
03:01:41,800 --> 03:01:44,640
Speaker 1: was involved with. She she never talked about her father

3004
03:01:44,760 --> 03:01:47,480
Speaker 1: and her father was already a very popular um person

3005
03:01:47,560 --> 03:01:51,600
Speaker 1: at this time, specifically inside Russian universities. But she she was.

3006
03:01:51,840 --> 03:01:54,960
Speaker 1: She did not drive with that type of stuff. Um.

3007
03:01:55,400 --> 03:01:57,720
Speaker 1: And then by by the end of her kind of

3008
03:01:57,959 --> 03:02:01,280
Speaker 1: time in university, she started shift doing more towards what

3009
03:02:01,400 --> 03:02:04,680
Speaker 1: her friends described as orthodoxy. Um. I would say it's

3010
03:02:04,720 --> 03:02:07,360
Speaker 1: like she s shod more towards her father's traditionalist stuff.

3011
03:02:07,720 --> 03:02:11,480
Speaker 1: I'm not sure what exactly caused this shift to happen, Um,

3012
03:02:11,920 --> 03:02:14,280
Speaker 1: but here's a quote from one of her friends. Quote.

3013
03:02:14,520 --> 03:02:17,720
Speaker 1: It was strange because before that she has not shown

3014
03:02:17,720 --> 03:02:20,439
Speaker 1: any interest in him and her father had no influence

3015
03:02:20,520 --> 03:02:26,880
Speaker 1: on her. Um. And it's so, yeah, something by the

3016
03:02:27,080 --> 03:02:29,160
Speaker 1: by the end she by the by the end of

3017
03:02:29,400 --> 03:02:31,360
Speaker 1: her time in university and she got and by the

3018
03:02:31,440 --> 03:02:34,280
Speaker 1: time she was out of university, Um, she actually just

3019
03:02:34,360 --> 03:02:37,800
Speaker 1: became an activist with the International Eurasianism movement of do

3020
03:02:37,920 --> 03:02:42,520
Speaker 1: again and began to arrange lectures for her father and

3021
03:02:43,240 --> 03:02:46,920
Speaker 1: became a very active supporter of his, and then after

3022
03:02:47,120 --> 03:02:49,600
Speaker 1: that she started writing for state run news outlets like

3023
03:02:49,840 --> 03:02:53,040
Speaker 1: rt and running parts of her father's website, where she

3024
03:02:53,400 --> 03:02:57,000
Speaker 1: was then listed as his press secretary, and started to

3025
03:02:57,080 --> 03:03:00,040
Speaker 1: appear at the events of the Eurasian Movement as a

3026
03:03:00,080 --> 03:03:03,760
Speaker 1: speaker as well. So she she shifted in like the

3027
03:03:03,879 --> 03:03:09,360
Speaker 1: last like probably ten fifteen years past, like ten years

3028
03:03:09,640 --> 03:03:12,800
Speaker 1: she was shifting more towards her father, even though when

3029
03:03:12,879 --> 03:03:15,200
Speaker 1: she was in her twenties she was more into some

3030
03:03:15,360 --> 03:03:18,600
Speaker 1: of the French leftist stuff. That doesn't surprise number one,

3031
03:03:18,640 --> 03:03:22,240
Speaker 1: it's pretty normal for young people to rebel against their

3032
03:03:22,280 --> 03:03:25,240
Speaker 1: parents and that era and be interested in stuff outside

3033
03:03:25,240 --> 03:03:27,680
Speaker 1: of it. And like, I think there's a couple of

3034
03:03:27,720 --> 03:03:29,440
Speaker 1: different ways this could have gone, but the thing that

3035
03:03:29,520 --> 03:03:32,760
Speaker 1: makes total sense to me is that she's rebellious. She

3036
03:03:32,959 --> 03:03:36,680
Speaker 1: explores some things. The primary things she learns is that

3037
03:03:36,840 --> 03:03:39,080
Speaker 1: life out there is hard and like making a living

3038
03:03:39,160 --> 03:03:42,879
Speaker 1: on your own and completely like is difficult and her

3039
03:03:42,959 --> 03:03:44,840
Speaker 1: dad has a lot of influence and she can make

3040
03:03:44,840 --> 03:03:46,720
Speaker 1: a lot of money working for him. And so back

3041
03:03:46,959 --> 03:03:50,320
Speaker 1: back she goes. I don't know, I don't know. She lost.

3042
03:03:50,440 --> 03:03:52,240
Speaker 1: She lost a lot of her friends over this because

3043
03:03:52,480 --> 03:03:54,520
Speaker 1: when she started doing stuff with her dad, her friends

3044
03:03:54,600 --> 03:03:57,640
Speaker 1: were like situations. People are like no fun that, we're

3045
03:03:57,640 --> 03:04:03,039
Speaker 1: not going to hang out with you. It seems like yeah, it's, it's,

3046
03:04:03,040 --> 03:04:05,480
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of actually a bomber. Like I, I only,

3047
03:04:05,600 --> 03:04:07,560
Speaker 1: I only, I only got to this part of her

3048
03:04:07,640 --> 03:04:09,920
Speaker 1: life um a few days ago when I was doing

3049
03:04:09,959 --> 03:04:12,520
Speaker 1: the research, and this is actually something I stumbled upon

3050
03:04:12,680 --> 03:04:15,040
Speaker 1: later into my research for this episode because I was

3051
03:04:15,320 --> 03:04:18,160
Speaker 1: nasally I was momly focused on the actual assassination part

3052
03:04:18,560 --> 03:04:20,120
Speaker 1: Um and I when I found this, I was like, oh,

3053
03:04:20,320 --> 03:04:23,680
Speaker 1: that's actually kind of sad. Yeah, I will say I

3054
03:04:24,200 --> 03:04:27,480
Speaker 1: don't know if this is at work here, but there

3055
03:04:27,680 --> 03:04:30,600
Speaker 1: is a thing in like there is a current in

3056
03:04:30,640 --> 03:04:34,080
Speaker 1: the French altip left like after sixty eight going into

3057
03:04:34,120 --> 03:04:37,240
Speaker 1: the seventies and eighties that gets like really fucking weird

3058
03:04:37,959 --> 03:04:42,400
Speaker 1: and kind of ghost fascist based around it's it's a

3059
03:04:42,440 --> 03:04:44,600
Speaker 1: long story. Where there there there's a whole thing about

3060
03:04:44,640 --> 03:04:46,480
Speaker 1: a guy who was like sort of involved in the

3061
03:04:46,520 --> 03:04:49,880
Speaker 1: alto left circles who was like I think he'd been

3062
03:04:49,920 --> 03:04:52,480
Speaker 1: in he'd been in a concentration camp, but he'd been

3063
03:04:52,520 --> 03:04:54,680
Speaker 1: in one of the ones that like wasn't an extermination

3064
03:04:54,760 --> 03:04:57,480
Speaker 1: camp and he started doing like Holocaust denial. And there's

3065
03:04:57,480 --> 03:04:59,080
Speaker 1: like this whole fucking thing where like a bunch of

3066
03:04:59,200 --> 03:05:03,400
Speaker 1: these people kind of went really, like, went really fucking weird.

3067
03:05:03,600 --> 03:05:05,160
Speaker 1: The rest of people, like the rest of also left

3068
03:05:05,200 --> 03:05:07,600
Speaker 1: to own them and like they like. We're kind of

3069
03:05:07,680 --> 03:05:09,480
Speaker 1: involved a bunch of the sort of like the like

3070
03:05:09,840 --> 03:05:12,800
Speaker 1: founding the French neo fascism. I mean, it's not like.

3071
03:05:13,080 --> 03:05:15,280
Speaker 1: It's not it's not a path that has never happened before.

3072
03:05:15,480 --> 03:05:18,400
Speaker 1: That's not coming out of nowhere, especially when your father

3073
03:05:18,640 --> 03:05:21,400
Speaker 1: is who he is. That's not that's not surprising. So

3074
03:05:22,120 --> 03:05:24,360
Speaker 1: when she started, so, yeah, and in the past few

3075
03:05:24,440 --> 03:05:28,119
Speaker 1: years she started acting as her father's press secretary, scheduling

3076
03:05:28,680 --> 03:05:31,480
Speaker 1: events for him. She was doing she was doing more

3077
03:05:31,840 --> 03:05:35,720
Speaker 1: writing on her own, Um, in various outlets, including state

3078
03:05:35,840 --> 03:05:38,960
Speaker 1: run outlets, but also outlets in other countries. Um, but

3079
03:05:39,200 --> 03:05:42,880
Speaker 1: definitely shifting more towards the kind of traditionalist durationism, Um

3080
03:05:43,840 --> 03:05:47,440
Speaker 1: side of politics. Earlier this year she was sanctioned by

3081
03:05:47,480 --> 03:05:52,200
Speaker 1: both US and UK authorities, who under under accusations that

3082
03:05:52,400 --> 03:05:57,039
Speaker 1: she was significantly contributing to online disinformation around Russia's invasion

3083
03:05:57,760 --> 03:06:00,680
Speaker 1: Um and in an interview just to few months before

3084
03:06:00,720 --> 03:06:03,920
Speaker 1: her death, Daria expressed pride that both she and her

3085
03:06:03,959 --> 03:06:06,760
Speaker 1: father had been targeted by Western sanctions. That kind of

3086
03:06:06,959 --> 03:06:08,320
Speaker 1: she kind of a board, as like as like a

3087
03:06:08,360 --> 03:06:13,200
Speaker 1: badge of honor Um and imperialism. In it's filing, the

3088
03:06:13,320 --> 03:06:18,200
Speaker 1: UK office of financial sanctions called duging a frequent, high

3089
03:06:18,280 --> 03:06:22,480
Speaker 1: profile contributor of disinformation in relation to Ukraine and the

3090
03:06:22,560 --> 03:06:26,400
Speaker 1: Russia invasion of Ukraine on various online platforms. And to

3091
03:06:26,920 --> 03:06:29,600
Speaker 1: get a sense of how she actually politically described herself

3092
03:06:30,160 --> 03:06:33,720
Speaker 1: in the months before her death. In an interview from May,

3093
03:06:35,120 --> 03:06:38,200
Speaker 1: she described herself as, quote, a political observer of the

3094
03:06:38,280 --> 03:06:42,800
Speaker 1: International Eurasianist Movement and an expert in international relations. My

3095
03:06:42,920 --> 03:06:45,959
Speaker 1: field of activity is in the analysis of European politics

3096
03:06:46,040 --> 03:06:52,520
Speaker 1: and geopolitics. In this capacity, I appear on Russian, Pakistani, Turkish,

3097
03:06:52,879 --> 03:06:57,480
Speaker 1: Chinese and Indian television channels, presenting a multipolar world view

3098
03:06:57,840 --> 03:07:02,240
Speaker 1: of political processes form. A particularly important issue is the

3099
03:07:02,320 --> 03:07:06,080
Speaker 1: development of the multipolar world theory. It is clear that

3100
03:07:06,200 --> 03:07:10,000
Speaker 1: the globalist movement is over and the end of liberalism

3101
03:07:10,160 --> 03:07:15,360
Speaker 1: has come, the end of liberal history, unquote. So and

3102
03:07:15,560 --> 03:07:19,160
Speaker 1: and guess, and guess what she thinks is going to

3103
03:07:19,280 --> 03:07:23,360
Speaker 1: replace liberal history. It's it's just I have some theories.

3104
03:07:23,560 --> 03:07:28,800
Speaker 1: It's Orthodox, traditionalist Russian fascism. Um. She in that same interview,

3105
03:07:28,920 --> 03:07:32,200
Speaker 1: she described the war in Ukraine as, quote, a clash

3106
03:07:32,400 --> 03:07:37,840
Speaker 1: between globalist and Eurasian civilization. I'll let I'll let my

3107
03:07:37,959 --> 03:07:41,760
Speaker 1: friends in Kiev know what they are. That's great, they'll

3108
03:07:41,800 --> 03:07:44,760
Speaker 1: be excited by that. Yeah, it is. It is one

3109
03:07:44,760 --> 03:07:46,000
Speaker 1: of the things that's been sort of interesting to me

3110
03:07:46,040 --> 03:07:48,640
Speaker 1: about this whole thing is like, okay, so do do

3111
03:07:48,680 --> 03:07:51,800
Speaker 1: you can sort of comes out of like like Russian

3112
03:07:51,840 --> 03:07:54,240
Speaker 1: national bullshit was into some extent right, but then, like

3113
03:07:54,360 --> 03:07:57,840
Speaker 1: if you look at the propaganda about Ukraine, it's like, okay,

3114
03:07:57,879 --> 03:07:59,880
Speaker 1: these people are all, these people are all Nazis, but

3115
03:08:00,040 --> 03:08:02,120
Speaker 1: like also with their communists, and also they're gay, and

3116
03:08:02,200 --> 03:08:04,760
Speaker 1: it's like yes, well, that that's the thing is like,

3117
03:08:05,240 --> 03:08:10,560
Speaker 1: you know, do people like Dougin and Dogin know well,

3118
03:08:10,640 --> 03:08:15,279
Speaker 1: being absolutely fascists, can can pretend to be against Nazis

3119
03:08:15,320 --> 03:08:20,400
Speaker 1: for various reasons? Um, DO GINA? Definitely, uh, and and

3120
03:08:20,520 --> 03:08:23,720
Speaker 1: do good as well. Are Are Pretty Homophobic, Um, and

3121
03:08:23,879 --> 03:08:28,400
Speaker 1: they they view gayness as a sign of like degenerate liberalism,

3122
03:08:28,720 --> 03:08:32,160
Speaker 1: so like. But like, they definitely walk that line between like,

3123
03:08:32,440 --> 03:08:33,880
Speaker 1: but you know that and that that's the thing. A

3124
03:08:33,959 --> 03:08:35,920
Speaker 1: lot of that, like what red, Brown alliance are National

3125
03:08:35,959 --> 03:08:38,600
Speaker 1: Bolshevik type things do is walk that line and how

3126
03:08:38,680 --> 03:08:41,760
Speaker 1: they how they try to present there, you know, cultural

3127
03:08:41,840 --> 03:08:45,280
Speaker 1: beliefs who are to heavily based in traditionalism versus their

3128
03:08:45,760 --> 03:08:50,120
Speaker 1: versus their beliefs on like fascism and communism. Um. But

3129
03:08:50,360 --> 03:08:55,520
Speaker 1: anyway we are. Let's see, and in her last ever interview, Um,

3130
03:08:55,560 --> 03:08:58,640
Speaker 1: which took place on the day of her death, Um,

3131
03:08:58,920 --> 03:09:02,440
Speaker 1: do Gina said that at quote, Western just Biggie, by

3132
03:09:02,520 --> 03:09:14,240
Speaker 1: the way, I don't know who that is. Oh my God. Alright,

3133
03:09:14,280 --> 03:09:18,320
Speaker 1: we're doing a biggie episode next you're of your homework

3134
03:09:18,440 --> 03:09:22,400
Speaker 1: for this week. Please come back next week and do better.

3135
03:09:23,040 --> 03:09:26,240
Speaker 1: So in in in her last ever interview, she said that, quote,

3136
03:09:26,280 --> 03:09:29,440
Speaker 1: Western utilitarianism has come to an end and a special

3137
03:09:29,480 --> 03:09:32,760
Speaker 1: military operation is, it seems to me, than the last

3138
03:09:32,920 --> 03:09:36,720
Speaker 1: nail in the coffin of this world hedgemon. Um. And

3139
03:09:36,800 --> 03:09:40,759
Speaker 1: then later on the interview she talked about how environmentalism,

3140
03:09:41,080 --> 03:09:45,480
Speaker 1: support for transgender people, quote, the conversion of a person

3141
03:09:45,760 --> 03:09:49,240
Speaker 1: into a homosexual unquote, as well as span is m

3142
03:09:49,320 --> 03:09:52,760
Speaker 1: and freaking is Um are tools with which the West

3143
03:09:53,040 --> 03:09:57,800
Speaker 1: is trying to fragment society and reduce its population. Free

3144
03:09:58,600 --> 03:10:01,440
Speaker 1: my friends who dumps to dived so they could buy

3145
03:10:01,600 --> 03:10:05,480
Speaker 1: more drugs fifteen years ago. We're part of a conspiracy

3146
03:10:05,600 --> 03:10:09,640
Speaker 1: to fragment society. It's not that cocaine was expensive and

3147
03:10:09,760 --> 03:10:13,800
Speaker 1: the fucking trader Joe's didn't lock it's dumpster. It's that. Okay, awesome.

3148
03:10:15,200 --> 03:10:17,840
Speaker 1: So yeah, so, those, those, those were the views that

3149
03:10:17,920 --> 03:10:23,400
Speaker 1: she exposed hours before dying. So well, talking about the

3150
03:10:23,520 --> 03:10:29,160
Speaker 1: conversion of a person into a homosexual, transgender people, freakings

3151
03:10:29,240 --> 03:10:32,680
Speaker 1: Um as being the things that are destroying the west.

3152
03:10:33,600 --> 03:10:35,840
Speaker 1: To be clear, all of these things are based and

3153
03:10:35,920 --> 03:10:38,920
Speaker 1: showed in fact destroy the West. If the if, the

3154
03:10:39,040 --> 03:10:43,080
Speaker 1: thing that finally kills capitalism is dumpster diving teams, I

3155
03:10:43,200 --> 03:10:47,400
Speaker 1: will be thrilled, but I just don't see it happening.

3156
03:10:48,000 --> 03:10:51,200
Speaker 1: Uh So, before we get to the actual deed, let's

3157
03:10:51,400 --> 03:10:54,760
Speaker 1: set the stage for where this, uh this event took

3158
03:10:54,879 --> 03:10:59,000
Speaker 1: place and where everything went down. So it's August, a Saturday.

3159
03:10:59,720 --> 03:11:03,920
Speaker 1: Al Ender Dugan and UH Daria Dugina are attending this

3160
03:11:04,160 --> 03:11:08,360
Speaker 1: festival just outside of Moscow, where Dugan's making a planned

3161
03:11:08,400 --> 03:11:11,920
Speaker 1: appearance that Um and he gave a lecture that Saturday

3162
03:11:12,000 --> 03:11:15,560
Speaker 1: evening at this festival. Now, the festival was called the

3163
03:11:16,000 --> 03:11:19,080
Speaker 1: tradition quote unquote. Tradition is what it is, whatever ever

3164
03:11:19,160 --> 03:11:22,640
Speaker 1: everything calls it. So I wonder what the festivals about? Huh?

3165
03:11:23,879 --> 03:11:28,160
Speaker 1: Appreciation of the headline song from the play fiddler on

3166
03:11:28,240 --> 03:11:32,320
Speaker 1: the roof, Best Sung by Zero Mostel? Look it up.

3167
03:11:34,520 --> 03:11:38,200
Speaker 1: It's an incredible performance. That must have been it right.

3168
03:11:38,959 --> 03:11:43,960
Speaker 1: So the tradition festival is billed as, quote, a Patriotic

3169
03:11:44,160 --> 03:11:50,240
Speaker 1: Cultural Festival and family event for art, literature and Music Lovers.

3170
03:11:53,360 --> 03:11:55,240
Speaker 1: It's just the same, this thing I've ever heard. So

3171
03:11:55,720 --> 03:11:59,840
Speaker 1: it's basically it's it's this traditionalist kind of quasi fast.

3172
03:12:00,080 --> 03:12:03,800
Speaker 1: Is Like Art Festival for people who like Neo platonism.

3173
03:12:04,680 --> 03:12:07,760
Speaker 1: Is What it actually is. Of It. It takes place

3174
03:12:07,920 --> 03:12:11,760
Speaker 1: in Zarkava. Manner. It's this, it's this biggest state about

3175
03:12:11,760 --> 03:12:16,360
Speaker 1: twelve miles away from Moscow. Um, the tradition festival is

3176
03:12:16,400 --> 03:12:20,800
Speaker 1: supported by the Presidential Fund for Cultural Initiatives, the Ministry

3177
03:12:20,840 --> 03:12:24,400
Speaker 1: of Culture and tourism for the Moscow region, among a

3178
03:12:24,440 --> 03:12:28,760
Speaker 1: few other kind of sponsors and both Daria and her

3179
03:12:28,840 --> 03:12:33,160
Speaker 1: father were special guests at this year's festival. Um. In

3180
03:12:33,280 --> 03:12:37,879
Speaker 1: an interview, a colleague of Dugina's said that the conversation

3181
03:12:37,959 --> 03:12:41,520
Speaker 1: topics at the festival between Duke and his daughter and

3182
03:12:41,680 --> 03:12:46,240
Speaker 1: other tradition festival attendees Um. They said, they said this

3183
03:12:46,360 --> 03:12:49,600
Speaker 1: in an interview. Quote. We talked about the Russian idea,

3184
03:12:50,120 --> 03:12:53,960
Speaker 1: the empire and the cultural war. Unquote. So that's just

3185
03:12:54,040 --> 03:12:56,960
Speaker 1: like the regular conversations you're having at this festival. To

3186
03:12:57,040 --> 03:12:59,360
Speaker 1: give you a sense of like what this thing actually is. Um,

3187
03:13:00,360 --> 03:13:05,080
Speaker 1: and the blast that eventually that did kill uh Dugan's daughter,

3188
03:13:05,879 --> 03:13:10,039
Speaker 1: happened shortly after Dukina left the tradition festival Um at

3189
03:13:10,080 --> 03:13:12,680
Speaker 1: the estate where her father had given a lecture just

3190
03:13:12,920 --> 03:13:16,160
Speaker 1: hours previous. Um, do you know who? Do you know

3191
03:13:16,200 --> 03:13:20,119
Speaker 1: who won't blow up? And I don't. I don't want

3192
03:13:20,120 --> 03:13:24,760
Speaker 1: to say that. Look, I'm gonna say right now. If

3193
03:13:24,840 --> 03:13:27,520
Speaker 1: you are planning to assassinate a member of the Dugan

3194
03:13:27,600 --> 03:13:31,240
Speaker 1: family and once spot to sponsor our podcast, we're on board.

3195
03:13:31,720 --> 03:13:36,320
Speaker 1: I think we're fine with that, actually, because it just counted. Yeah, yeah, actually,

3196
03:13:36,520 --> 03:13:38,480
Speaker 1: we'll do it for free. Just give us a name,

3197
03:13:38,680 --> 03:13:42,600
Speaker 1: because we have and we're down. This is this is

3198
03:13:42,680 --> 03:13:46,080
Speaker 1: part of our radical Freakan identity. This is, this is

3199
03:13:46,400 --> 03:13:49,039
Speaker 1: this is what I'm gonna do in between stealing old

3200
03:13:49,440 --> 03:13:52,840
Speaker 1: pumpkin spice coffee from the trader Joe's dumpster. Unbelievable. I

3201
03:13:53,720 --> 03:13:59,640
Speaker 1: will do I will do a traditionalist because pumpkin spice

3202
03:13:59,640 --> 03:14:05,720
Speaker 1: coffee is destroying the West. We have to kill it. Yeah, Robert,

3203
03:14:05,959 --> 03:14:09,039
Speaker 1: Robert and Danie fucking love the Pumpkin spice. It's amazing.

3204
03:14:09,280 --> 03:14:15,760
Speaker 1: It's destroying degenerate liberalism in the form of Pumpkin spice coffee,

3205
03:14:16,560 --> 03:14:20,200
Speaker 1: not enjoyed in any wayship. I don't want to Yuck you. Yum,

3206
03:14:20,560 --> 03:14:24,200
Speaker 1: I'm thank you. Thank you, thank you. I would like

3207
03:14:24,360 --> 03:14:30,000
Speaker 1: to Robert. Oh my God, here's that break. You know what? Yes,

3208
03:14:31,360 --> 03:14:33,360
Speaker 1: we are, we are back. Um, I'M gonna open up

3209
03:14:33,400 --> 03:14:39,280
Speaker 1: with a quote from from the Bromo. I don't know

3210
03:14:39,320 --> 03:14:43,879
Speaker 1: who that I don't know what that is. Oh, the bomb. Yeah,

3211
03:14:45,120 --> 03:14:48,920
Speaker 1: Mr Bomb, when you exploded, what's going through your head? Then?

3212
03:14:49,320 --> 03:15:03,400
Speaker 1: We are thinking about hot Stariadina. But no, it's actually no, no, perfect.

3213
03:15:03,840 --> 03:15:06,960
Speaker 1: We're finishing assassination week to actually to actually justify some

3214
03:15:07,120 --> 03:15:09,600
Speaker 1: of our kind of glee at this happening because Dukee

3215
03:15:09,640 --> 03:15:13,520
Speaker 1: is a horrible person. They're both trash. Yeah, I am

3216
03:15:13,560 --> 03:15:18,480
Speaker 1: going to read a quote from Port Sour in the Guardian. Quote.

3217
03:15:18,720 --> 03:15:22,160
Speaker 1: On Saturday night, the violence that the alternationalist Russian thinker,

3218
03:15:22,200 --> 03:15:26,840
Speaker 1: Alexander ducan has propagandized for decades suddenly entered his own

3219
03:15:26,959 --> 03:15:29,480
Speaker 1: life when his daughter was killed in a car bomb

3220
03:15:29,640 --> 03:15:32,800
Speaker 1: on the outskirts of Moscow, and I think that's a

3221
03:15:32,840 --> 03:15:35,400
Speaker 1: really important thing that, like, he's made his entire career

3222
03:15:35,879 --> 03:15:40,879
Speaker 1: off of doing violence on other people and and promoting

3223
03:15:42,080 --> 03:15:44,760
Speaker 1: genocides on people that he doesn't like. They are a

3224
03:15:44,879 --> 03:15:47,000
Speaker 1: people I know who are dead because of the war

3225
03:15:47,120 --> 03:15:50,400
Speaker 1: that he and his daughter urged to happen. So, yeah, like,

3226
03:15:50,560 --> 03:15:52,600
Speaker 1: it's it's it's what it's, it's it's it's the same

3227
03:15:52,640 --> 03:15:56,000
Speaker 1: thing as like when every single fucking Nicon guld dies,

3228
03:15:56,400 --> 03:15:59,600
Speaker 1: like no one should no one show, no one should

3229
03:15:59,600 --> 03:16:01,960
Speaker 1: feel bad about them at all because they dedicated their

3230
03:16:02,080 --> 03:16:04,119
Speaker 1: entire lives to having another country be invaded and having

3231
03:16:04,120 --> 03:16:06,840
Speaker 1: all these people killed their lives destroyed. So fuck them.

3232
03:16:07,080 --> 03:16:10,080
Speaker 1: But yeah, the violence, the violence that he's fetishized and

3233
03:16:10,720 --> 03:16:14,760
Speaker 1: and propagandized for decades has has actually entered his life

3234
03:16:14,879 --> 03:16:20,400
Speaker 1: for like the first time now. And so, after giving

3235
03:16:20,440 --> 03:16:23,360
Speaker 1: a talk at the festival, Dugan and his daughter were

3236
03:16:23,520 --> 03:16:26,720
Speaker 1: due to leave the venue together in the same car,

3237
03:16:27,120 --> 03:16:32,520
Speaker 1: if but at the last minute Dugan decided to travel

3238
03:16:32,680 --> 03:16:35,680
Speaker 1: separately and take different vehicles. We stepped off by the

3239
03:16:35,720 --> 03:16:38,080
Speaker 1: C I A, according to a friend and family. Now,

3240
03:16:38,400 --> 03:16:41,640
Speaker 1: because at the last minute he did decide to take

3241
03:16:42,200 --> 03:16:45,680
Speaker 1: another vehicle. This actually has spawned a lot of conspiracy theories, Um,

3242
03:16:45,959 --> 03:16:47,600
Speaker 1: which will kind of get into it a bit later.

3243
03:16:47,800 --> 03:16:49,640
Speaker 1: But but this, this is what happened, is that they

3244
03:16:49,680 --> 03:16:51,720
Speaker 1: were they were they were going to leave together and

3245
03:16:51,800 --> 03:16:54,480
Speaker 1: the last minute they decided to take separate vehicles. Um,

3246
03:16:54,920 --> 03:16:57,960
Speaker 1: five minutes later, while, do you note, was driving a

3247
03:16:58,080 --> 03:17:03,320
Speaker 1: Toyota Land Cruiser on the highway. That makes the tragedy.

3248
03:17:04,400 --> 03:17:09,320
Speaker 1: That's a fine car. It didn't deserve to in that way. Ye, Robert,

3249
03:17:09,360 --> 03:17:12,960
Speaker 1: why couldn't it? Why couldn't it have been afford some

3250
03:17:13,120 --> 03:17:18,039
Speaker 1: sometimes sacrifices are necessary for the cause. Yeah, I'm Land

3251
03:17:18,120 --> 03:17:21,480
Speaker 1: Cruiser on a flag. Let's put let's let let's all

3252
03:17:21,560 --> 03:17:25,440
Speaker 1: pull one out for comrade Toyota Land Cruiser. You served

3253
03:17:25,520 --> 03:17:31,400
Speaker 1: us well. You made the ultimate sacrifice so that mankind

3254
03:17:31,600 --> 03:17:36,040
Speaker 1: might be free to go off roading. So as as

3255
03:17:36,320 --> 03:17:39,120
Speaker 1: as as she was driving this Toyota Land Cruiser on

3256
03:17:39,240 --> 03:17:42,240
Speaker 1: the highway, a bomb exploded in her car, killing her

3257
03:17:42,320 --> 03:17:47,680
Speaker 1: immediately and sadly ripping the vehicle apart Um. Witnesses say

3258
03:17:48,000 --> 03:17:51,640
Speaker 1: debris was thrown all over the road as the Toyota

3259
03:17:51,680 --> 03:17:54,880
Speaker 1: Land Cruiser immediately lost control and crashed into a fence

3260
03:17:55,360 --> 03:18:02,680
Speaker 1: and engulfed in flames. Noble stuff. Yeah, I mean a

3261
03:18:02,800 --> 03:18:07,400
Speaker 1: really solid assassination. It is, what's one of the better

3262
03:18:07,480 --> 03:18:12,280
Speaker 1: executed ones, especially, especially for a car like it's one

3263
03:18:12,320 --> 03:18:18,760
Speaker 1: of the most impressive car bomb attacks that has ever happened. Yeah, yeah,

3264
03:18:19,160 --> 03:18:22,880
Speaker 1: that car bomb. That car bomb killed nobody, but yeah,

3265
03:18:22,959 --> 03:18:25,280
Speaker 1: that was quite a card. It was a big moon.

3266
03:18:25,640 --> 03:18:28,119
Speaker 1: We thought that was an air strike it. Yes, yes,

3267
03:18:28,160 --> 03:18:33,600
Speaker 1: definitely a so Um. Eyewitnesses called the fire brigade, but

3268
03:18:33,760 --> 03:18:35,720
Speaker 1: by the time they arrived the entire car was up

3269
03:18:35,760 --> 03:18:40,200
Speaker 1: in flames and firefighters only found one badly burnt corpse

3270
03:18:40,320 --> 03:18:44,080
Speaker 1: in the remains of the vehicle. So investigators say an

3271
03:18:44,120 --> 03:18:47,000
Speaker 1: explicit device planted under the car went off in the

3272
03:18:47,080 --> 03:18:50,800
Speaker 1: vehicle caught fire. This happened about twelve miles west of

3273
03:18:51,680 --> 03:18:55,880
Speaker 1: Moscow on in the village near the village of Oh boy,

3274
03:18:57,080 --> 03:19:07,160
Speaker 1: you don't need to try that. Nobody needs vallims the Zimmi. Okay,

3275
03:19:07,440 --> 03:19:11,320
Speaker 1: that's me near near the village of bullshower Vel Zimmy,

3276
03:19:12,160 --> 03:19:16,959
Speaker 1: at around nine thirty PM local time. Investigators do believe

3277
03:19:16,959 --> 03:19:25,160
Speaker 1: the bombing was, quote, premeditated and in the moment. Guys

3278
03:19:25,400 --> 03:19:29,640
Speaker 1: just walking down the street with a bomb driving M

3279
03:19:30,879 --> 03:19:35,760
Speaker 1: why not? It was. It was. It wasn't the vehicle error.

3280
03:19:36,000 --> 03:19:41,960
Speaker 1: This was there was a bomb planted. No forward or

3281
03:19:41,959 --> 03:19:46,240
Speaker 1: a Chevy, a pinto. Sure, yeah, if if a fucking

3282
03:19:46,320 --> 03:19:48,720
Speaker 1: F one fifty goes up like that, I'm blaming Ford.

3283
03:19:48,800 --> 03:19:51,120
Speaker 1: But no, because must have been a bombing. So the

3284
03:19:51,400 --> 03:19:55,480
Speaker 1: bomb was placed under the car on the driver's side. Now,

3285
03:19:55,600 --> 03:19:59,960
Speaker 1: a friend of the family named Andre Krasnov, who's all

3286
03:20:00,040 --> 03:20:03,880
Speaker 1: to the head of the Russia Horizon Social Movement. Um

3287
03:20:04,400 --> 03:20:06,400
Speaker 1: was that one of the first ones to confirm the

3288
03:20:06,480 --> 03:20:10,920
Speaker 1: reports of of Daria's death and but also said that

3289
03:20:11,080 --> 03:20:14,160
Speaker 1: the bomb could have actually been intended for her father,

3290
03:20:14,680 --> 03:20:17,800
Speaker 1: and he gave this quote to media. Quote. This was

3291
03:20:18,120 --> 03:20:22,040
Speaker 1: the father's vehicle. Daria was driving another car, but she

3292
03:20:22,240 --> 03:20:26,160
Speaker 1: took his car. Today, while Alexander went in a different way.

3293
03:20:26,800 --> 03:20:29,000
Speaker 1: He returned, he was at the site of the tragedy.

3294
03:20:29,400 --> 03:20:32,600
Speaker 1: As far as I understand, Alexander, or probably them together,

3295
03:20:32,920 --> 03:20:39,320
Speaker 1: were the target. Unquote. Now, this is this is just speculation. Actually, Um,

3296
03:20:39,680 --> 03:20:42,520
Speaker 1: from what I can tell, there is actually more evidence

3297
03:20:42,600 --> 03:20:47,360
Speaker 1: suggesting the car was indeed registered to Daria Dugina. We.

3298
03:20:48,040 --> 03:20:51,560
Speaker 1: I don't believe it is her father's car. Uh. We

3299
03:20:51,800 --> 03:20:55,400
Speaker 1: there was. Some of the vehicle registration was leaked by

3300
03:20:55,480 --> 03:20:59,080
Speaker 1: a Russian opposition UH news, news site, like a new

3301
03:20:59,160 --> 03:21:02,760
Speaker 1: site in in Russia. UH, who's not state funded. Uh

3302
03:21:03,360 --> 03:21:08,120
Speaker 1: leaked the car registration. It was registered to Daria, not, not,

3303
03:21:08,560 --> 03:21:14,800
Speaker 1: not Alexander Dugan. Um. So, but it is very likely

3304
03:21:15,040 --> 03:21:18,160
Speaker 1: that Dugan may have been a target as well, like, very,

3305
03:21:18,320 --> 03:21:23,040
Speaker 1: extremely likely. Uh. It's it's hard, it's it's hard to say. Uh. Now,

3306
03:21:23,200 --> 03:21:26,360
Speaker 1: in one of the funniest parts of the assassination, footage

3307
03:21:26,440 --> 03:21:29,720
Speaker 1: posted on telegram appears to show Mr Dugan walking up

3308
03:21:29,760 --> 03:21:34,600
Speaker 1: to the side of the crash. Hey In shock, with

3309
03:21:34,840 --> 03:21:38,840
Speaker 1: his with his mouth just gaping open and hands on

3310
03:21:39,040 --> 03:21:43,040
Speaker 1: his head like he's in his surprised. It's one of

3311
03:21:43,120 --> 03:21:47,320
Speaker 1: the funniest things I've ever seen. He's walking up to

3312
03:21:47,400 --> 03:21:51,280
Speaker 1: the side of the crash like, Oh, it's very that

3313
03:21:51,480 --> 03:21:53,240
Speaker 1: is that is the that's the sound of the face

3314
03:21:53,280 --> 03:21:57,720
Speaker 1: he's making. Is Um we we love to see a

3315
03:21:57,800 --> 03:22:06,840
Speaker 1: wizard in distress. So sad wizard. So the attack happened

3316
03:22:06,879 --> 03:22:11,120
Speaker 1: on Saturday and then come Monday, the Federal Security Service,

3317
03:22:11,320 --> 03:22:15,280
Speaker 1: or the the FSB, Uh said that the murder has

3318
03:22:15,400 --> 03:22:19,440
Speaker 1: been solved. Come, come, come, the next Monday. And this

3319
03:22:19,720 --> 03:22:22,640
Speaker 1: is this is not true. This is what we call

3320
03:22:22,840 --> 03:22:28,400
Speaker 1: a lie. From the FSC, yes, that's that's really disappointing

3321
03:22:28,440 --> 03:22:33,840
Speaker 1: and untruth. Yeah, that's wow. From the Russian FBI? No,

3322
03:22:34,959 --> 03:22:43,120
Speaker 1: no intelligent services ever told a lie. That's disappointing. So so, yes,

3323
03:22:43,879 --> 03:22:48,680
Speaker 1: according according to, according to the FSB, uh, the the

3324
03:22:48,800 --> 03:22:56,520
Speaker 1: attack was mastermind by the Ukrainian secret services and carried

3325
03:22:56,560 --> 03:23:04,720
Speaker 1: out by an ace of Ukrainian national names Batalia Vulk

3326
03:23:05,800 --> 03:23:15,920
Speaker 1: who fled? Last name? Yeah, Johnny, racist, keep it the fan.

3327
03:23:16,040 --> 03:23:23,440
Speaker 1: Did it again. Who fled to Estoda, uh Estonia, following

3328
03:23:23,520 --> 03:23:28,119
Speaker 1: the killing? Um, so, Russia, Russia's FPS, did a very

3329
03:23:28,160 --> 03:23:33,280
Speaker 1: brief investigation. Yes, sorry, Russia. Russia's FSB did a very

3330
03:23:33,320 --> 03:23:36,959
Speaker 1: brief investigation. Claimed that it was this female Ukrainian citizen,

3331
03:23:37,560 --> 03:23:40,720
Speaker 1: Um and that, and that she fled the next day,

3332
03:23:40,760 --> 03:23:48,680
Speaker 1: which was Sunday. Ukraine says, uh Nah, not really. Yeah,

3333
03:23:48,760 --> 03:23:53,960
Speaker 1: that is I mean, basically that Ukraine has made uh yeah,

3334
03:23:54,720 --> 03:23:57,240
Speaker 1: did at that noise. It's one of those things. I

3335
03:23:57,760 --> 03:24:00,720
Speaker 1: would not be surprised, obviously, if Ukraine did it and

3336
03:24:00,840 --> 03:24:03,720
Speaker 1: they have the people responsible or some of their network

3337
03:24:03,760 --> 03:24:06,720
Speaker 1: are still in country. Of course you you make a denial,

3338
03:24:07,200 --> 03:24:08,720
Speaker 1: but if Ukraine did it and they were out of

3339
03:24:08,760 --> 03:24:11,280
Speaker 1: the country, I can't imagine why they wouldn't be like, yeah, man,

3340
03:24:11,320 --> 03:24:16,520
Speaker 1: we fucking did yeah, so we're at war. I'll read

3341
03:24:16,520 --> 03:24:19,680
Speaker 1: the actual statements. So Ukrainian official dismissed the accusations of

3342
03:24:19,840 --> 03:24:23,760
Speaker 1: Ukraine's involvement in the incident. Quote. Ukraine, of course, has

3343
03:24:23,959 --> 03:24:25,360
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with this, because we are not

3344
03:24:25,480 --> 03:24:29,080
Speaker 1: a criminal state, which is the Russian Federation, and even

3345
03:24:29,160 --> 03:24:34,440
Speaker 1: less a terrorist state. Said Uh Mike Helio PODILLAC, who

3346
03:24:34,560 --> 03:24:40,200
Speaker 1: is an advisor to President Zelinsky. So yeah, I mean

3347
03:24:40,280 --> 03:24:44,760
Speaker 1: maybe Ukraine obviously denies involvement in this. Um, there's a

3348
03:24:44,800 --> 03:24:47,080
Speaker 1: bunch of people it could be. Could be Ukraine, could

3349
03:24:47,080 --> 03:24:50,320
Speaker 1: be the CIA, could be Ukraine and the CIA could

3350
03:24:50,360 --> 03:24:54,120
Speaker 1: be the FSB or the G R. A lot of

3351
03:24:54,200 --> 03:24:56,200
Speaker 1: people have a lot of people have theorized all of

3352
03:24:56,280 --> 03:24:58,840
Speaker 1: those things. Yeah, there's really no way to know a

3353
03:24:58,920 --> 03:25:02,960
Speaker 1: lot of this. Yeah, are we are we going to

3354
03:25:03,040 --> 03:25:05,440
Speaker 1: get into the person who destinated the bomb, more like

3355
03:25:05,800 --> 03:25:08,480
Speaker 1: the car that? We don't. We don't. We don't know

3356
03:25:08,840 --> 03:25:11,240
Speaker 1: what actually happened. I'm going to get to some bit later,

3357
03:25:11,680 --> 03:25:13,920
Speaker 1: but some of the actual mechanisms that caused it to

3358
03:25:13,959 --> 03:25:18,520
Speaker 1: happen are are still unclear because because the FSB is

3359
03:25:18,560 --> 03:25:22,400
Speaker 1: not like given us any definitive evidence on how this

3360
03:25:22,560 --> 03:25:25,840
Speaker 1: thing actually worked. But the head of the UH, the

3361
03:25:26,160 --> 03:25:30,920
Speaker 1: Nets People's Republic, they issued their own statement on telegram

3362
03:25:31,200 --> 03:25:40,760
Speaker 1: saying vile villains, the terrorists, scoundrels. So they're just they're

3363
03:25:40,840 --> 03:25:49,480
Speaker 1: just doing a Cobra commander. That's awesome to eate. Alexander

3364
03:25:49,560 --> 03:25:54,080
Speaker 1: Dugan blew up his daughter in a car. We cherished

3365
03:25:54,160 --> 03:25:58,360
Speaker 1: the memory of Daria. She is a real Russian girl.

3366
03:25:59,640 --> 03:26:05,840
Speaker 1: There's as if that makes it worse, but like, if

3367
03:26:05,879 --> 03:26:08,640
Speaker 1: they've blown her up some other way, it would not

3368
03:26:08,760 --> 03:26:11,800
Speaker 1: have been as vile. But I just loved at the

3369
03:26:11,959 --> 03:26:15,960
Speaker 1: end it was she was a real Russian girl. Yeah, yeah,

3370
03:26:16,560 --> 03:26:23,040
Speaker 1: it's like Pinocchio. It's very funny. So some, some politicians

3371
03:26:23,160 --> 03:26:26,480
Speaker 1: and experts, quote UNQUOTE EXPERTS, I've said that Putin himself

3372
03:26:26,520 --> 03:26:28,959
Speaker 1: may have orchestrated the bombing, with little to new evidence

3373
03:26:29,200 --> 03:26:31,440
Speaker 1: and support of that theory. There was a British member

3374
03:26:31,480 --> 03:26:34,560
Speaker 1: of parliament said that Putin may have targeted Dugan over

3375
03:26:34,640 --> 03:26:37,320
Speaker 1: recent criticisms against his government, which I find to be

3376
03:26:37,520 --> 03:26:41,680
Speaker 1: very uh. Yeah, Putin's gotten rid of a shipload of

3377
03:26:41,720 --> 03:26:43,480
Speaker 1: guys who used to be close to him lately. And

3378
03:26:43,560 --> 03:26:48,000
Speaker 1: he didn't use car bombs, for they commit suicide, they

3379
03:26:48,040 --> 03:26:53,800
Speaker 1: get sick. You know, a lot of many historians or

3380
03:26:54,080 --> 03:26:58,200
Speaker 1: like you know, extremism kind of researchers are definitely kind

3381
03:26:58,240 --> 03:27:03,200
Speaker 1: of eyeing up the the FSB um. It's, you know

3382
03:27:03,280 --> 03:27:06,080
Speaker 1: it's but it's it's really it's it's really unclear. There

3383
03:27:06,160 --> 03:27:09,480
Speaker 1: there was Um uh. People have proposed that, like this,

3384
03:27:09,720 --> 03:27:13,240
Speaker 1: this attack was orchestrated to kind of create a wave

3385
03:27:13,360 --> 03:27:17,400
Speaker 1: of needed anger in Russia six months into their failed invasion.

3386
03:27:18,560 --> 03:27:21,600
Speaker 1: For him, Ruslan, a Trad a security researcher in the

3387
03:27:21,760 --> 03:27:25,040
Speaker 1: in the US think tank Atlantic Council, proposed that the

3388
03:27:25,640 --> 03:27:30,600
Speaker 1: the the FSB UH or or other Russian state kind

3389
03:27:30,640 --> 03:27:33,160
Speaker 1: of apparatus is could have been involved, saying that's evident

3390
03:27:33,280 --> 03:27:36,240
Speaker 1: that the murder of Dugana created a wave of needed

3391
03:27:36,240 --> 03:27:39,240
Speaker 1: anger in Russia and that, quote, Dugan is now mostly

3392
03:27:39,320 --> 03:27:42,400
Speaker 1: a symbol, not an instrument for the state. His role

3393
03:27:42,520 --> 03:27:46,320
Speaker 1: in the creation of current Kremlin mythology for Eurasia and

3394
03:27:46,440 --> 03:27:49,600
Speaker 1: the so called Russian world has already ended, and he

3395
03:27:50,000 --> 03:27:53,320
Speaker 1: and he can be sacrificed. Currently, the Russian army needs

3396
03:27:53,440 --> 03:27:57,320
Speaker 1: victories and a patriotic flame, so they they're kind of

3397
03:27:58,120 --> 03:28:00,920
Speaker 1: them opposing that. He was. It was like his symbolic

3398
03:28:01,000 --> 03:28:03,720
Speaker 1: sacrifice that like be sacrificed this figure. That means this thing,

3399
03:28:04,000 --> 03:28:06,680
Speaker 1: people will be willing to like keep on fighting. The

3400
03:28:06,840 --> 03:28:11,120
Speaker 1: Ukrainians literally have literally bombed and struck inside Russia at

3401
03:28:11,200 --> 03:28:14,039
Speaker 1: this point and killed fifty thou plus of their children.

3402
03:28:14,320 --> 03:28:16,200
Speaker 1: You would think that would be enough to make the

3403
03:28:16,280 --> 03:28:20,360
Speaker 1: Russians angry. Like blowing up this Weirdo's daughter isn't going

3404
03:28:20,400 --> 03:28:23,240
Speaker 1: to be the thing that Galvini is the nation. Well,

3405
03:28:23,920 --> 03:28:26,280
Speaker 1: to be clear, though, this is the kind of dumb

3406
03:28:26,360 --> 03:28:32,360
Speaker 1: ship the Atlantic Council will be. A stupid Atlantic Council ship, yes, yes,

3407
03:28:32,600 --> 03:28:36,280
Speaker 1: and one of the one of the funnier explanations that

3408
03:28:36,400 --> 03:28:40,160
Speaker 1: our theories being posited is by former Russian state deputy,

3409
03:28:40,600 --> 03:28:46,720
Speaker 1: uh Eliya Pomrov Um, who is now so, in an

3410
03:28:46,760 --> 03:28:50,320
Speaker 1: appearance on his Russian language opposition TV channel and Kiev,

3411
03:28:50,800 --> 03:28:55,600
Speaker 1: alleged that that Duino was killed by Russian partisans from

3412
03:28:55,640 --> 03:29:01,039
Speaker 1: a previously unknown anti Putin terrorist group dubbed the National

3413
03:29:01,240 --> 03:29:05,680
Speaker 1: Republican Army, and that both Dugan and his daughter were targets. And,

3414
03:29:05,879 --> 03:29:09,320
Speaker 1: according to this guy, the group authorized him to issue

3415
03:29:09,360 --> 03:29:14,520
Speaker 1: their manifesto via his telegram, Chattel Um, and this group

3416
03:29:14,680 --> 03:29:18,680
Speaker 1: is entirely made up. This is not real. This is this,

3417
03:29:18,879 --> 03:29:21,800
Speaker 1: is like this, like this, like this, like former Russians, this,

3418
03:29:22,000 --> 03:29:24,560
Speaker 1: this is like this. This, this former Russian official turned

3419
03:29:24,640 --> 03:29:27,520
Speaker 1: this like Ukrainian Lib Guy, who claims that it's this

3420
03:29:27,720 --> 03:29:32,080
Speaker 1: secret to Anti Putin liberal terrorist group that contacted him.

3421
03:29:32,560 --> 03:29:36,280
Speaker 1: And this is this is their first ever attack. That's

3422
03:29:36,440 --> 03:29:39,320
Speaker 1: that's that they're they're going public as this new terrorist group,

3423
03:29:39,600 --> 03:29:43,000
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna I'm gonna say this is the only

3424
03:29:43,440 --> 03:29:46,000
Speaker 1: one of these theories that is abs that that I

3425
03:29:46,120 --> 03:29:50,440
Speaker 1: don't believe. Like the this assassination is a lot like

3426
03:29:50,640 --> 03:29:53,400
Speaker 1: what happened to Epstein, where everyone who brings up a

3427
03:29:53,480 --> 03:29:56,360
Speaker 1: theory has some other reason for having that theory, and

3428
03:29:56,480 --> 03:29:59,160
Speaker 1: so I don't trust anything anyone says about it. But

3429
03:29:59,320 --> 03:30:02,160
Speaker 1: every theory about why he might how he might have died,

3430
03:30:02,400 --> 03:30:05,800
Speaker 1: is plausible right, like every all of these are plausible. Yeah, might,

3431
03:30:05,959 --> 03:30:07,440
Speaker 1: like I don't listen. I don't care what the Atlantic

3432
03:30:07,440 --> 03:30:08,840
Speaker 1: Council has to say, but yeah, it could have been

3433
03:30:08,840 --> 03:30:11,360
Speaker 1: the F FSB. I don't care about, like, what the

3434
03:30:11,440 --> 03:30:13,320
Speaker 1: Russian government has to say, but yeah, it could have

3435
03:30:13,360 --> 03:30:17,480
Speaker 1: been the Ukrainians, but definitely was not liberal terrorist groups.

3436
03:30:17,560 --> 03:30:22,080
Speaker 1: First bombing like this, like that. What what a the

3437
03:30:22,360 --> 03:30:26,080
Speaker 1: like the like the single thing where like you can

3438
03:30:26,160 --> 03:30:28,760
Speaker 1: instantly tell that someone is lying about what happened in

3439
03:30:28,840 --> 03:30:33,320
Speaker 1: the bombing is when they say a previously unknown group everything.

3440
03:30:35,000 --> 03:30:42,119
Speaker 1: It's so hard to bomb things. Yeah, like, so serge

3441
03:30:42,600 --> 03:30:45,879
Speaker 1: some money. Is a German political expert with particular focus

3442
03:30:46,000 --> 03:30:49,000
Speaker 1: on Russia and Eastern Europe. Yeah, he definitely has made

3443
03:30:49,000 --> 03:30:51,440
Speaker 1: a lot of statements talking about how Kremlin's version of

3444
03:30:51,480 --> 03:30:54,960
Speaker 1: events is definitely h he says, totally fake and absolutely

3445
03:30:55,320 --> 03:30:58,039
Speaker 1: out of the scale of possibility in terms of blaming

3446
03:30:58,080 --> 03:31:01,920
Speaker 1: it on this this one. You Krainian as off fighter

3447
03:31:02,000 --> 03:31:08,640
Speaker 1: who infiltrated Russia. Um and well, well so. The FSB

3448
03:31:08,760 --> 03:31:12,240
Speaker 1: has produced, quote unquote, evidence in support of this theory

3449
03:31:12,879 --> 03:31:15,879
Speaker 1: of saying that this Ukrainian citizen, who arrived in Russia

3450
03:31:16,000 --> 03:31:18,840
Speaker 1: in July with her daughter, rented an apartment in the

3451
03:31:18,920 --> 03:31:24,359
Speaker 1: same building as Dugina's and her into Russia as a Ukrainian,

3452
03:31:24,480 --> 03:31:28,920
Speaker 1: by the way, July of this year. Yes, as your child,

3453
03:31:30,840 --> 03:31:33,920
Speaker 1: rented an apartment in the same building as Dunkin's daughter,

3454
03:31:34,200 --> 03:31:36,920
Speaker 1: so specifically ducan's daughter, and spied on her. And like.

3455
03:31:37,080 --> 03:31:40,680
Speaker 1: The month before the killing, UM, the FSB released a

3456
03:31:40,959 --> 03:31:44,760
Speaker 1: purported passport photo of the Ukrainian citizen, as well as

3457
03:31:44,879 --> 03:31:48,520
Speaker 1: a footage that allegedly showed her in Russia with many people,

3458
03:31:48,959 --> 03:31:51,960
Speaker 1: including Ukrainian officials and kind of data analysts and like,

3459
03:31:52,080 --> 03:31:55,360
Speaker 1: disinformation researchers pointing out the various ways that that the

3460
03:31:55,440 --> 03:32:01,680
Speaker 1: document seems forged or digitally fabricated. Um and some landy

3461
03:32:01,760 --> 03:32:05,520
Speaker 1: also says that this National Republican Army Group is completely

3462
03:32:05,600 --> 03:32:08,360
Speaker 1: made up, because there's there's there's no way that there

3463
03:32:08,360 --> 03:32:11,000
Speaker 1: could be a terrorist group like this here's like an

3464
03:32:11,040 --> 03:32:15,240
Speaker 1: actual group active that's not infiltrated by the by the

3465
03:32:15,440 --> 03:32:18,920
Speaker 1: FSB right now. Um, just like he's like, you're like not,

3466
03:32:19,120 --> 03:32:21,240
Speaker 1: like people can do individual acts of terrorism, but have

3467
03:32:21,440 --> 03:32:24,480
Speaker 1: like a like a big group like this comprised of

3468
03:32:24,600 --> 03:32:27,600
Speaker 1: like former Russian officials. He's like that's just impossible, that's

3469
03:32:27,640 --> 03:32:30,440
Speaker 1: just not that's just not gonna happen. Um, no, I

3470
03:32:30,560 --> 03:32:35,800
Speaker 1: I agree with all of that. Um Honestly, one reason

3471
03:32:35,959 --> 03:32:40,680
Speaker 1: why someone involved in the Russian security state is plausible

3472
03:32:40,840 --> 03:32:45,600
Speaker 1: is because this was such a good bombing. It's, it's

3473
03:32:45,800 --> 03:32:48,480
Speaker 1: I'm leaning whoever it is, because the CIA is also like.

3474
03:32:48,560 --> 03:32:52,080
Speaker 1: I'm leaning towards it's it's a state actor, or because, like,

3475
03:32:52,600 --> 03:32:56,280
Speaker 1: fucking bombs are hard to make, especially almost close to

3476
03:32:56,440 --> 03:32:59,360
Speaker 1: zero percent of the time when an independent terrorist group

3477
03:32:59,440 --> 03:33:02,040
Speaker 1: makes a bomb doesn't work the way it's meant to.

3478
03:33:02,760 --> 03:33:06,040
Speaker 1: And like this, this wasn't even ignition based. This blew

3479
03:33:06,160 --> 03:33:10,000
Speaker 1: up as she was driving on the highway. So people,

3480
03:33:10,040 --> 03:33:13,960
Speaker 1: if it was yeah, like it. It could have been

3481
03:33:14,000 --> 03:33:17,080
Speaker 1: like heat activated, it's it could have had like a

3482
03:33:17,200 --> 03:33:20,080
Speaker 1: timer based on ignition stuff. But like whatever mechanism that

3483
03:33:20,120 --> 03:33:22,320
Speaker 1: got to that they got it to blow up is

3484
03:33:22,400 --> 03:33:24,920
Speaker 1: more complicated than your average car bomb and it was

3485
03:33:25,000 --> 03:33:28,040
Speaker 1: way more successful in your average car bomb. So it's

3486
03:33:28,080 --> 03:33:32,600
Speaker 1: like it's it's bizarre how good they were at doing this. Yeah,

3487
03:33:32,640 --> 03:33:34,800
Speaker 1: and like I think it's worth mentioning, like, okay, like

3488
03:33:34,920 --> 03:33:37,360
Speaker 1: there was a time where you could just, if you

3489
03:33:37,440 --> 03:33:39,840
Speaker 1: needed to make up car bomb, like you could hire

3490
03:33:39,920 --> 03:33:41,720
Speaker 1: a guy who would teach you how to make a

3491
03:33:41,760 --> 03:33:44,080
Speaker 1: car bomb. Like we don't live in that error anymore.

3492
03:33:44,120 --> 03:33:47,240
Speaker 1: Like that, like in the seventies you could plausibly do that, right, although,

3493
03:33:47,280 --> 03:33:49,400
Speaker 1: if that's a kind of training you want to offer

3494
03:33:49,520 --> 03:33:52,320
Speaker 1: for people to help try to take out Alexander again,

3495
03:33:52,400 --> 03:33:57,320
Speaker 1: a sponsor our podcast. Yeah, we're yeah, our our podcast

3496
03:33:57,360 --> 03:34:02,400
Speaker 1: sponsored by Becca Valley to Becca harder. I do believe

3497
03:34:02,560 --> 03:34:07,720
Speaker 1: that I have this one source here that that it's they,

3498
03:34:08,120 --> 03:34:11,440
Speaker 1: the FSP, claimed that the the bomb was either made

3499
03:34:11,520 --> 03:34:15,120
Speaker 1: of or equivalent to, five hundred grams of t n t,

3500
03:34:15,680 --> 03:34:20,840
Speaker 1: which is that which is complete bullshit. But it's just

3501
03:34:20,920 --> 03:34:23,760
Speaker 1: like in Oregon to get rid of a whale. But

3502
03:34:23,879 --> 03:34:27,160
Speaker 1: that's that's but that's just one of the statements that

3503
03:34:27,680 --> 03:34:29,720
Speaker 1: that's like that's one of the statements that that the

3504
03:34:29,800 --> 03:34:32,240
Speaker 1: FSB has made on this, that it's five drabs of

3505
03:34:32,320 --> 03:34:34,400
Speaker 1: t n T, which is just not true. Like that's

3506
03:34:34,400 --> 03:34:38,280
Speaker 1: just not how bombs work. Um, so now we're gonna

3507
03:34:38,280 --> 03:34:40,280
Speaker 1: get to something. We're gonna WE'RE gonna close off here

3508
03:34:41,000 --> 03:34:47,680
Speaker 1: by talking about the aftermath and the televised funeral of because, because,

3509
03:34:47,720 --> 03:34:51,880
Speaker 1: because it's kind of funny. So family friends, dozens of

3510
03:34:52,000 --> 03:34:56,520
Speaker 1: colleagues and acquaintances of Daria Dugina got together live on

3511
03:34:56,680 --> 03:35:01,080
Speaker 1: TV on the Tuesday after after after her death, to

3512
03:35:01,240 --> 03:35:04,480
Speaker 1: bid their final farewell to the, quote, unquote, journalist killed

3513
03:35:04,520 --> 03:35:08,119
Speaker 1: in the car bomb attack outside of Moscow. That's quoting

3514
03:35:08,160 --> 03:35:10,880
Speaker 1: from tasks, one of the one of the Russian state

3515
03:35:10,959 --> 03:35:16,199
Speaker 1: funded media outlets. Um, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna

3516
03:35:16,240 --> 03:35:19,480
Speaker 1: read a quote from Alexander Dukean who. This is something

3517
03:35:19,560 --> 03:35:22,920
Speaker 1: he said on the televised funeral. Quote. She had no

3518
03:35:23,200 --> 03:35:26,160
Speaker 1: fear really, and the last time we talked was at

3519
03:35:26,200 --> 03:35:30,920
Speaker 1: the festival tradition. She said, Daddy, I feel like a warrior,

3520
03:35:31,360 --> 03:35:33,720
Speaker 1: I feel like a hero. I want to be with

3521
03:35:33,920 --> 03:35:36,880
Speaker 1: my country, I want to be on the light side

3522
03:35:36,920 --> 03:35:39,920
Speaker 1: of the force. She's with a lot of Russian people now,

3523
03:35:41,640 --> 03:35:45,480
Speaker 1: with about other Russians right now, and just love that.

3524
03:35:45,640 --> 03:35:49,760
Speaker 1: Like saying that his daughter walked up to her and said, Daddy,

3525
03:35:50,080 --> 03:35:52,000
Speaker 1: I want to be on the light side of the force.

3526
03:35:52,320 --> 03:35:56,600
Speaker 1: She's like, like what I mean? A significant chunk of

3527
03:35:56,640 --> 03:36:02,440
Speaker 1: her body mass was converted into light. I just I just,

3528
03:36:03,200 --> 03:36:04,840
Speaker 1: I just said that. I I don't know. I just

3529
03:36:05,080 --> 03:36:08,280
Speaker 1: think it's a really funny thing that that ducan was

3530
03:36:08,320 --> 03:36:11,600
Speaker 1: saying less televised funeral. It's just it's a bizarre quote. Um,

3531
03:36:11,959 --> 03:36:14,760
Speaker 1: he also said that he wanted to bring up his

3532
03:36:14,879 --> 03:36:19,160
Speaker 1: daughter the way that he saw the ideal person to be, saying, quote,

3533
03:36:19,520 --> 03:36:22,040
Speaker 1: the first words that we taught her as a child

3534
03:36:22,320 --> 03:36:30,520
Speaker 1: were Russia, our state, our people and our empire. Unquote. Again,

3535
03:36:30,760 --> 03:36:35,120
Speaker 1: none of this is true, like, he's just a weird

3536
03:36:35,240 --> 03:36:39,360
Speaker 1: thing to say. It's your daughter's funeral. No, you gotta Look, look,

3537
03:36:39,560 --> 03:36:43,320
Speaker 1: he got daughter. It's like any other kind of investment right, like,

3538
03:36:43,560 --> 03:36:46,560
Speaker 1: and she's been exploded. You gotta get as much as

3539
03:36:46,640 --> 03:36:49,279
Speaker 1: you can, like really, it's like ringing out a towel,

3540
03:36:49,680 --> 03:36:52,720
Speaker 1: you know. Uh, you gotta just make that last little

3541
03:36:52,760 --> 03:36:57,600
Speaker 1: bit count and then, uh, Vladimir Putin, a few days after,

3542
03:36:58,040 --> 03:37:02,120
Speaker 1: after the assassination, signed a decree to to award her

3543
03:37:02,400 --> 03:37:09,040
Speaker 1: with the order of courage post posthumously. So she did.

3544
03:37:09,360 --> 03:37:15,120
Speaker 1: She did explode courageously. So, yeah, that is that. That's

3545
03:37:15,160 --> 03:37:18,120
Speaker 1: the Sassination of Dugan's daughter. It's wild because we don't

3546
03:37:18,160 --> 03:37:20,920
Speaker 1: really actually know. We don't we we don't really know

3547
03:37:21,000 --> 03:37:23,520
Speaker 1: who actually did it. We we we don't know much

3548
03:37:23,520 --> 03:37:25,920
Speaker 1: about the actual event. We're unsure of the actual the

3549
03:37:26,000 --> 03:37:30,359
Speaker 1: actual like ignition of the bomb, how the bomb actually operated.

3550
03:37:30,760 --> 03:37:34,320
Speaker 1: Who Actually did it? I mean, obviously like this, whether

3551
03:37:34,680 --> 03:37:37,960
Speaker 1: whether Dugan himself was a target or was specifically Um,

3552
03:37:38,360 --> 03:37:42,320
Speaker 1: Daria Dugina. Um. Now, obviously this was like heavily planned

3553
03:37:42,520 --> 03:37:46,160
Speaker 1: based off of her and Dugan's schedule, right, because they

3554
03:37:46,240 --> 03:37:51,760
Speaker 1: were both openly gonna be at this facial cultural festivals. Yeah, but, like,

3555
03:37:51,879 --> 03:37:54,080
Speaker 1: you know, like it did require like you know, people

3556
03:37:54,160 --> 03:37:57,080
Speaker 1: were tracking their movements, being like Oh, Dugan's gonna be

3557
03:37:57,160 --> 03:38:00,240
Speaker 1: at this festival on this day. Um. So, like it's

3558
03:38:00,440 --> 03:38:02,560
Speaker 1: there is a lot of like background work that went

3559
03:38:02,640 --> 03:38:05,640
Speaker 1: into this and it's fascinating that we just we actually

3560
03:38:05,720 --> 03:38:08,120
Speaker 1: know very little about who, who may have done this

3561
03:38:08,760 --> 03:38:13,359
Speaker 1: and how and how the bomb actually operated. The primary

3562
03:38:13,640 --> 03:38:16,160
Speaker 1: clue we have is just how good the bomb was,

3563
03:38:16,280 --> 03:38:18,720
Speaker 1: which which means one way or the other, a nation

3564
03:38:18,800 --> 03:38:24,400
Speaker 1: state actor, probably, but that does not really narrow it much. So, yeah,

3565
03:38:24,600 --> 03:38:27,680
Speaker 1: that was that was again one of the assassinations that

3566
03:38:27,800 --> 03:38:32,200
Speaker 1: happened shortly after we planned assassination week. Yeah, I feel

3567
03:38:32,200 --> 03:38:37,600
Speaker 1: like it's what like man like easily our most successful

3568
03:38:37,720 --> 03:38:42,960
Speaker 1: PR campaign. It's it's just so wild to think like

3569
03:38:43,240 --> 03:38:45,640
Speaker 1: how close Dugan was to die, because remember, like he

3570
03:38:46,080 --> 03:38:48,200
Speaker 1: was planning to leave in that same car and then,

3571
03:38:48,240 --> 03:38:52,080
Speaker 1: at the last minute, decided to take separate vehicles. So

3572
03:38:52,320 --> 03:38:55,680
Speaker 1: was he behind her when it went off? Like yeah, yeah,

3573
03:38:55,840 --> 03:38:58,600
Speaker 1: that's why we got that great photo walking up to

3574
03:38:58,680 --> 03:39:02,240
Speaker 1: the site. Yeah, would you point this out to like

3575
03:39:02,760 --> 03:39:05,040
Speaker 1: actually been like five grams a t and t like

3576
03:39:05,440 --> 03:39:10,600
Speaker 1: held been when he walked up to it, like picture

3577
03:39:10,600 --> 03:39:12,440
Speaker 1: of going Oh my God, and then just his face

3578
03:39:12,480 --> 03:39:14,440
Speaker 1: would explode. But not mean like a lot of conspiracy

3579
03:39:14,440 --> 03:39:17,040
Speaker 1: theories have popped up, being like well, Dugan was supposed

3580
03:39:17,080 --> 03:39:18,720
Speaker 1: to be in that car and then he left last minute.

3581
03:39:18,959 --> 03:39:21,440
Speaker 1: Maybe he was in on it. Maybe, like maybe, you know,

3582
03:39:21,680 --> 03:39:23,920
Speaker 1: the Russian state told him this was gonna happen and

3583
03:39:24,040 --> 03:39:26,360
Speaker 1: he and he just let it happen and it was

3584
03:39:26,440 --> 03:39:28,760
Speaker 1: doing it for like this pr thing and like who knows,

3585
03:39:28,920 --> 03:39:32,600
Speaker 1: like like do maybe maybe Dugan didn't know that this

3586
03:39:32,760 --> 03:39:35,240
Speaker 1: was gonna happen, like, like there's there's no way to like,

3587
03:39:35,400 --> 03:39:38,080
Speaker 1: you're just, you're just, you're just speculating at that point.

3588
03:39:38,280 --> 03:39:40,640
Speaker 1: We're just creating theories in your own head. But it

3589
03:39:40,800 --> 03:39:43,840
Speaker 1: is it is kind of funny that that Dugan almost

3590
03:39:44,000 --> 03:39:46,880
Speaker 1: was in that car and then it wasn't, and that is, uh,

3591
03:39:47,720 --> 03:39:51,120
Speaker 1: that that is at the very least, an interesting aspect

3592
03:39:51,240 --> 03:39:54,720
Speaker 1: of this assassination. Um, but it's no evidence for one

3593
03:39:54,840 --> 03:39:57,480
Speaker 1: specific thing right now. It could just be like, Oh,

3594
03:39:58,080 --> 03:40:00,400
Speaker 1: I'm gonna make a stop somewhere on my way back

3595
03:40:00,400 --> 03:40:02,040
Speaker 1: home right like, so I'm gonna take this I'm gonna

3596
03:40:02,040 --> 03:40:05,560
Speaker 1: take this other vehicle, like. There's so many other possible

3597
03:40:05,600 --> 03:40:08,960
Speaker 1: reasons for why he may have switched cars. Um, but

3598
03:40:09,160 --> 03:40:11,360
Speaker 1: it is, it's it's another, it is another like thing

3599
03:40:11,480 --> 03:40:15,680
Speaker 1: to that that the people are turning into various theories. Yeah,

3600
03:40:15,680 --> 03:40:16,840
Speaker 1: I would. The thing I say about that was, like

3601
03:40:16,920 --> 03:40:18,920
Speaker 1: you have to have a lot of faith in your

3602
03:40:18,959 --> 03:40:22,640
Speaker 1: bomb maker to drive behind a car bomb like intentionally,

3603
03:40:22,959 --> 03:40:25,440
Speaker 1: like you've got to be really like, I don't either

3604
03:40:25,520 --> 03:40:28,080
Speaker 1: that or you really hate your daughter in a way

3605
03:40:28,120 --> 03:40:30,600
Speaker 1: that's very reckless. Yeah, but you could just like turn

3606
03:40:30,720 --> 03:40:32,920
Speaker 1: off the highway or something or like, oh no, my

3607
03:40:33,000 --> 03:40:35,600
Speaker 1: car broke down. I need to make sure that down.

3608
03:40:36,560 --> 03:40:39,120
Speaker 1: You gotta drop her, you've got to press the big

3609
03:40:39,160 --> 03:40:43,720
Speaker 1: plunger into the box. Yeah, well, at least we're ending

3610
03:40:43,800 --> 03:40:47,080
Speaker 1: on a high note. Yeah, I have to have to. Yeah,

3611
03:40:47,520 --> 03:40:50,480
Speaker 1: I do like that. I've started. We started asassination week

3612
03:40:50,520 --> 03:40:55,160
Speaker 1: with a car bomb and we're ending it with she

3613
03:40:55,280 --> 03:40:59,200
Speaker 1: declared the nearest church. No doubt. It's like it's like

3614
03:40:59,320 --> 03:41:01,520
Speaker 1: poetry at rhymes and I want to be on the

3615
03:41:01,600 --> 03:41:04,360
Speaker 1: light side of the force. Quote. Fine, what are the

3616
03:41:04,760 --> 03:41:07,640
Speaker 1: according to do again? What are the last things Daria

3617
03:41:07,720 --> 03:41:09,720
Speaker 1: Dugan said? I wanted to be on the light side

3618
03:41:09,760 --> 03:41:13,039
Speaker 1: of the force. Somebody, if there were real journalists left

3619
03:41:13,080 --> 03:41:15,360
Speaker 1: in the world, somebody would reach out to George Lucas

3620
03:41:15,440 --> 03:41:19,000
Speaker 1: and just try to get a quote. And you're not.

3621
03:41:19,280 --> 03:41:21,880
Speaker 1: Don't email him. It's like just go to a mall

3622
03:41:22,040 --> 03:41:25,400
Speaker 1: near skywalker ranch and wait until he goes to the sparrow.

3623
03:41:25,920 --> 03:41:30,080
Speaker 1: You'll find him. All right, that doesn't for us today.

3624
03:41:30,720 --> 03:41:34,800
Speaker 1: Check under your driver's side door. If you're Alexander Dugan.

3625
03:41:35,320 --> 03:41:40,000
Speaker 1: Imagine if he wasn't like, if if he wasn't involved,

3626
03:41:40,200 --> 03:41:41,960
Speaker 1: he wasn't aware of this. He is going to be

3627
03:41:42,000 --> 03:41:47,160
Speaker 1: looking over his shoulder like nonstop. Now. Yeah, man into

3628
03:41:47,200 --> 03:41:50,560
Speaker 1: a car he hasn't like shimmied under. He had to

3629
03:41:50,600 --> 03:41:53,640
Speaker 1: look under every car he gets into. It's so funny. Uh,

3630
03:41:54,120 --> 03:42:00,760
Speaker 1: we'd love to see it anyway. All right, we're done. Hey,

3631
03:42:00,920 --> 03:42:03,960
Speaker 1: we'll be back Monday with more episodes every week from

3632
03:42:04,000 --> 03:42:06,600
Speaker 1: now until the heat death of the universe. It could

3633
03:42:06,600 --> 03:42:08,920
Speaker 1: happen here is a production of cool zone media. For

3634
03:42:09,080 --> 03:42:11,800
Speaker 1: more podcasts from cool zone media, visit our website, cool

3635
03:42:11,840 --> 03:42:13,800
Speaker 1: zone media DOT COM, or check us out on the

3636
03:42:13,879 --> 03:42:16,560
Speaker 1: I heart radio APP, apple podcasts or wherever you listen

3637
03:42:16,600 --> 03:42:19,360
Speaker 1: to podcasts. You can find sources for it could happen here,

3638
03:42:19,440 --> 03:42:22,840
Speaker 1: updated monthly at cool zone media dot com, slash sources.

3639
03:42:23,080 --> 03:42:23,880
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.