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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: The Charlie Kirk killer suspect death penalty announced.

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Speaker 1: This as a.

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Speaker 2: Family feud emerges over the suspect's male lover. I'm Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for

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Speaker 2: being with us.

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Speaker 3: Tyler James Ronson Cala one as you made of murder

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Speaker 3: can two fellow discharged the fire arm causing serious fility injury.

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Speaker 3: I am finally a notice.

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Speaker 4: Of intent to see the death tactic because the fat

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Speaker 4: his belief believed to have target and Charlie Kirk based

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Speaker 4: on Charlie Urg's political expression and then so knowing the

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Speaker 4: children were present and.

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Speaker 1: We witnessed the second death penalty is the death penalty?

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Speaker 1: Is the death penalty. They loaded him up. That's right.

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Speaker 2: With so many alternative counts, it will be hard for

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Speaker 2: a jury to find him not guilty.

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Speaker 3: Listen, I am filing a criminal information Jurny Tyler James Robinson,

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Speaker 3: age twenty.

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Speaker 5: Two with the following crime.

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Speaker 6: Cal one hag remated murder a.

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Speaker 3: Calital events or intentionally we're knowingly causing the death and

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Speaker 3: Charlie heard under circumstances they created a great.

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Speaker 6: Risk of death to others.

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Speaker 3: Count two fellay discharge of the fighter arm causing serious

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Speaker 3: fody injury, a first degree.

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Speaker 1: FELA legal term. They ain't playing.

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Speaker 2: Joining me in all star panel to make sense of

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Speaker 2: what we're learning in the courtroom. Straight out to Randolph

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Speaker 2: Rice joining us, former felony prosecutor, now criminal defense attorney,

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Speaker 2: joining us at Rice law. Randolph Rice charging in the altarative.

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Speaker 1: I've done it a million times.

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Speaker 2: If I got a case and the grand jury had

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Speaker 2: not indicted in the alternative, I would either a send

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Speaker 2: it back to the grand jury and represent it myself

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Speaker 2: to get those alternative counts, or have the judge charge

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Speaker 2: the jury with the alternative counts. What I mean by

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Speaker 2: that is, you shoot Jackie, you plan to shoot Jackie.

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Speaker 2: It's malice, aforethought, it's premeditated murder.

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Speaker 1: Murder one, So I charge you with murder one.

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Speaker 2: But I'm worried, So then I charged you with voluntary

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Speaker 2: manslaughter murder two, involuntary manslaughter if I'm desperate. In other words,

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Speaker 2: there is no way you are walking out of that

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Speaker 2: courtroom if I have anything to do with it without

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Speaker 2: a conviction. They loaded him up, explain in a nutshell Rice, nutshell.

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Speaker 7: Well, Nancy you did a great job and explain that,

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Speaker 7: because if you don't get that top count, the most

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Speaker 7: serious count, you've got the back. But the problem here is,

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Speaker 7: and there is a problem, is that I think that

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Speaker 7: they may be reaching on this aggravated murder.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 7: They may be using this as leverage to force him

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Speaker 7: or try to get him to take a plead. But

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Speaker 7: the aggravating circumstances at this point I think are very very.

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Speaker 1: Sough, head blowing off.

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Speaker 8: Are you.

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Speaker 1: They're reaching? Are you serious?

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Speaker 9: This guy?

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Speaker 2: According to the state, this guy steaks out in the place,

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Speaker 2: and I believe they're going to end up with video

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Speaker 2: showing that was not his first trip to the top

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Speaker 2: of that roof. He stakes it out, he plans it

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Speaker 2: in advance, even a wardrobe change. A lot of forethought

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Speaker 2: goes into this. He targets someone because of their freedom

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Speaker 2: of speech. I don't care if you agree with Kirk

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Speaker 2: or disagree with Kirk. I really couldn't care less doesn't matter.

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Speaker 2: He targeted him for his freedom of speech. And that

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Speaker 2: is a major, major aggravating circumstances, akin to shooting a judge,

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Speaker 2: or shooting a political figure like the president or the

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Speaker 2: vice president, or shooting a prosecutor or shooting a cop.

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Speaker 1: You go after them.

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Speaker 2: Because of what they represent that you don't like, and

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Speaker 2: you actually, you know what, you really know how to kick.

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Speaker 1: It off wrong, don't you. I bet you're a super

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Speaker 1: downer at a party.

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Speaker 2: You come in to crime stories and blurt out the

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Speaker 2: state is reaching what.

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Speaker 1: Could be more aggravating, well, Mancy.

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Speaker 7: The problem is is that they're trying to rely on

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Speaker 7: the fact that there were children president or that the

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Speaker 7: crime could have hurt somebody else, and again, that seems

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Speaker 7: to be a physical shrimp creature.

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Speaker 1: Show him the crowd here there you go.

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Speaker 2: Look, look at that he shot from a little under

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Speaker 2: two hundred yards away, and you're saying nobody else was

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Speaker 2: in danger.

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Speaker 1: Rice, look at your monitor.

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Speaker 7: No body else is in danger in this situation, at

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Speaker 7: least from Again, I'm arguing the defense here, and I

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Speaker 7: think that the state has a good argument. But in

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Speaker 7: the defense's argument, they're going to say this was a

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Speaker 7: single bullet that had a single target that ultimately killed

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Speaker 7: Charlie Kirk, and it didn't endanger the other people in

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Speaker 7: the crowd. And that's where there may be a problem

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Speaker 7: for the prosecutor's office in trying to seek the charge

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Speaker 7: that seeks the death pilting.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so Randolph, you come in, you plot down in

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Speaker 2: the studio, and you first say the state is reaching.

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Speaker 1: They can't prove it. Did I not hear? You just

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Speaker 1: say the state has a good argument. So which one

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Speaker 1: is it? Does the state have a good argument? I

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Speaker 1: say they do?

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Speaker 2: Or are they overreaching? You know that's a very sad

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Speaker 2: second verse, same as the first. Is there any defense

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Speaker 2: attorney that doesn't say, in a murder case, you're overreaching?

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Speaker 7: Oh no, every single case. Every defense attorney says that

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Speaker 7: you're overreaching. I do it in all the cases that

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Speaker 7: I defend, because that's their job. Their job is to

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Speaker 7: challenge the prosecution to say did you try to get

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Speaker 7: too much?

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Speaker 8: Here?

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Speaker 7: And again, this is a tactic that the prosecutortion is

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Speaker 7: using to try to get the defendant to take a

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Speaker 7: police saying, hey, look, did you actually.

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Speaker 1: Say the P word? Plea? You think there's going to

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Speaker 1: be a plea?

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Speaker 2: You think they're going to pull a coburger with the

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Speaker 2: whole world watching them. You don't think they're going to

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Speaker 2: take this to trial and seek the death penalty, whether

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Speaker 2: they get it or not.

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Speaker 7: I thought Coburger was going to go to trial, and

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Speaker 7: look what happened there. I think that this is something

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Speaker 7: they're trying to push him into, is to take a place.

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Speaker 2: Okay, you know what, that's the first thing you've said

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Speaker 2: so far to me, Randolph, Rice, that makes any sense.

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Speaker 2: But actually, actually, now that I think about it, you're

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Speaker 2: absolutely correct. The number of counts could be a tactic

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Speaker 2: to make the defendant plea guilty, because there seems to

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Speaker 2: be no way out with all these alternative counts.

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Speaker 1: I don't see it happening though. I don't see a

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Speaker 1: plea going down in this case.

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Speaker 2: But again, you're right, we didn't see one coming in

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Speaker 2: Coburger either.

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Speaker 1: But put them up one more time, Randolph. Guys, let

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Speaker 1: me to mind you. Rice is a.

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Speaker 2: Former very successful felony prosecutor. He's won a lot of cases.

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Speaker 2: Now he is a criminal defense attorney, civil attorney. So, Randolph,

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Speaker 2: the aggravating circumstance you mentioned was just that other people

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Speaker 2: were endangered. It's not like you shoot Jackie in the

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Speaker 2: studio and it's just the two of you. This is

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Speaker 2: a shooting with a throng of people, thousands of people.

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Speaker 2: If that bullet had gone the wrong way if there

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Speaker 2: had been a gust of wind, who knows. But they

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Speaker 2: included another aggravating circumstance that this murder occurred in the

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Speaker 2: presence of children. Now, that is aggravating a violent felony

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Speaker 2: that occurs in the presence of children. How are you

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Speaker 2: going to get out of that, Randolph Rice.

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Speaker 7: Bringing jow shild in there that actually saw the murder.

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Speaker 7: They're going to have to prove that in court that

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Speaker 7: a child actually saw it, was affected by it, and

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Speaker 7: therefore that's the aggravating circumstance. And so I don't know

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Speaker 7: if they've got that right now. You know, it just

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Speaker 7: might be tough for them on that account.

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Speaker 2: You're right, that's an element of proof. They will have

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Speaker 2: to bring in a child witness to prove it. Guys,

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Speaker 2: a lot has happened since these charges were announced formally

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Speaker 2: in court. Now what that was was an arrayment, an

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Speaker 2: arrangment where the defendant is brought in because you cannot

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Speaker 2: stay behind bars over seventy two hours without being told

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Speaker 2: what you're charged with by typically a magistrate. I believe

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Speaker 2: this is going to beat the trial judge from here out.

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Speaker 1: But we're also.

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Speaker 2: Learning not just the charges but how the murder went down.

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Speaker 2: Listen at approximately.

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Speaker 3: Eleven to fifty one am. The suspect of her campus

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Speaker 3: from the north. You seen wearing a lave shirt with

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Speaker 3: an American flag in the center, a darter baseball gut,

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Speaker 3: and large sunglasses. Throughout the surveillance, the suspect keeps his

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Speaker 3: head down and rarely raises his head enough to get

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Speaker 3: a clear image of his face as he proceeds across

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Speaker 3: the campus. He's seen walking with.

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Speaker 8: An unusual day.

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Speaker 7: The suspect was with very.

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Speaker 3: Little vandy in his right leg, consistent with a rifle

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Speaker 3: to be hidden in these pants.

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Speaker 2: Joining us now, Harmonia on Rodriguez, she if you as

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Speaker 2: reporter Daily Mail, Harmonia, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: So that explains.

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Speaker 2: Hey, let's see that TMC video we have of him walking,

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Speaker 2: because I can see what the prosecution is talking about,

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Speaker 2: especially if they play this in promo.

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Speaker 1: Harmonia, explain what they're talking.

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Speaker 10: About, right, So, officials gave us more insight about the

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Speaker 10: hours before this shooting last week. As we can see

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Speaker 10: on the screen, the suspect was seen arriving on campus

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Speaker 10: about four hours before the shooting, and there he is limping.

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Speaker 9: Now, this made the public wonder why this person was limping?

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Speaker 9: Do they have a limp?

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Speaker 10: Yesterday we learned that actually he had hidden the rifle

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Speaker 10: that he used in one of his pant legs, and

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Speaker 10: that's why he's limping the way we see him on screen.

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Speaker 1: You know, he's kind of bold. What about it?

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Speaker 2: Chris mcdonnald joining US director Coldcase's Foundation Former Homicide to

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Speaker 2: take a start of the interview room on YouTube.

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Speaker 1: Who has gone to this scene, to the home, to.

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Speaker 2: The shooting scene, through the neighborhood. You know that's pretty bold,

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Speaker 2: is he?

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Speaker 8: Is?

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Speaker 1: He not heard of ring doorbell cams because they catch

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Speaker 1: him going door to door to door to door.

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Speaker 2: They've got almost an uninterrupted path of him walking.

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Speaker 1: Through the neighborhood.

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Speaker 2: And don't tell me mcdonaughhe didn't case this out, Like

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Speaker 2: where am I going to park? How am I going

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Speaker 2: to get away? This has been at least at least

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Speaker 2: days in the making.

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Speaker 11: Absolutely Nancy, And what I've learned is she did have

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Speaker 11: that vehicle up there and it was parked about a

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Speaker 11: mile away from the crime chine, and he walked in

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Speaker 11: to the crime chine to casehit out initially before the

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Speaker 11: situation went down, and then later. I've also learned that

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Speaker 11: he turned his phone off for a short period of

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Speaker 11: time and then turned it back on after the homicide.

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Speaker 2: Chris McDonough speaking of walking through the neighborhood to his

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Speaker 2: the vehicle.

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Speaker 1: Where did he park his muscle car?

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Speaker 11: The muscle card Nancy was parked approximately a mile away

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Speaker 11: at a church parking lot, an LDS church parking lot.

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Speaker 2: Joe Scott Morgan joining me. Professor Forensis jacksonvill State University,

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Speaker 2: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and star

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Speaker 2: of a hit new podcast series, Bodybags.

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Speaker 1: With Joe Scott Morgan.

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Speaker 2: Joe Scott really did he pull a coburger slash morphew

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Speaker 2: where they both think they've outsmarted everybody by turning their

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Speaker 2: phone off.

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Speaker 1: There it's like my teen children. They're seventeen, believe it

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Speaker 1: or not.

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Speaker 2: The phone is constantly on, even right down to zero

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Speaker 2: one percent. Okay, they will not turn it off even

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Speaker 2: when they charge it. See that is a pattern or practice.

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Speaker 2: So when you just coincidentally turn your phone off at

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Speaker 2: the time of the incident, I mean, think about it,

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Speaker 2: Jo Scott.

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Speaker 1: If it weren't for the murder.

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Speaker 2: The mo modus operandi method of operation would be laughable

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Speaker 2: because you see the pings leading up to a certain

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Speaker 2: spot and then poof the phone goes off, the murder occurs,

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Speaker 2: then poof, the phone goes back on, and you see

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Speaker 2: the return back to your home nest.

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Speaker 6: Right, It's just yeah, yeah, you're right, and welcome to

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Speaker 6: the real world here, because these phones are the modern

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Speaker 6: crime scene. Because it seems like every case that we cover,

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Speaker 6: you know, I think most famously to this point Coburger's case,

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Speaker 6: you go to these patterns of behavior. This was spoken

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Speaker 6: a lot, spoken about quite a bit in that particular case.

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Speaker 6: We have established patterns, why are you going to turn

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Speaker 6: it off at this particular time? And look, the case

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Speaker 6: is not proven simply based on that, but it's another

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Speaker 6: element that can be integrated into this from a behavioral standpoint.

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Speaker 1: This video from our friends I've wat the Independent speaking

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Speaker 1: of the rifle. Listen.

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Speaker 3: The rifle, ammunition, rounds, and towel were sent for forensic processing.

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Speaker 3: DNA consistent that Robin Knock was a defendant was found

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Speaker 3: on the trigger, other parts of the rifle, the fire cartridge, casing,

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Speaker 3: two of the three how to fire cartridges, and the towel.

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Speaker 3: Law enforcement was unable to immediately locate the shooter, so

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Speaker 3: the published photos of the shooter from the UBIU surveillance

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Speaker 3: cameras and asked for the public's help to identify it. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 3: law enforcement continued to trying to identify the shooter.

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Speaker 1: Through other means, joining us.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany Marshall now Psychoalysis out of the LA jurisdiction.

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Speaker 1: She is the author of deal Breaker.

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Speaker 2: You can see her now on peacock and she said,

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Speaker 2: doctor Bethany Marshall dot com.

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Speaker 1: Before you launch into the whole furry.

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Speaker 2: Connection, I want to hear your thoughts on a guy

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Speaker 2: that comes from a loving home, very loving. We've heard Wow,

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Speaker 2: he was afraid to tell his parents he was dating

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Speaker 2: another guy that was transitioning. The family knew, and I'm

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Speaker 2: going to tell you about that in just a moment.

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Speaker 2: So he comes from a very loving home. He was smart.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany Marshall got a scholarship at the top one

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Speaker 2: percent of I believe it was this act exam almost

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Speaker 2: forty thousand dollars of scholarship.

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Speaker 1: Goes to college, doesn't like it, leaves college, comes out,

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Speaker 1: pursues Listen.

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Speaker 7: To this thirty two thousand dollars. This scholarship is available

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Speaker 7: for forty years or a semesters.

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Speaker 1: I mean they're supportive, they love it.

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Speaker 2: My bottom line here is what went wrong, And I'm

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Speaker 2: not talking about his relationship with a guy. That's irrelevant,

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Speaker 2: doesn't matter. Some people say right, some people say wrong,

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Speaker 2: don't care. But what I'm talking about, Bethany, is how

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Speaker 2: do you go from a loving home when the parent's

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Speaker 2: like you're the apple of their eye to becoming a

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Speaker 2: psycho shooter?

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Speaker 12: Because Nancy, he seems to me to be what we

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Speaker 12: call narcissistically vulnerable, meaning he gets the thirty two thousand

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Speaker 12: dollars scholarship, but then he drops out of college and

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Speaker 12: studies to become an electrician. And what that tells me,

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Speaker 12: if he were my patient, is that he cannot tolerate

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Speaker 12: being with his peers. He doesn't feel intact or good

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Speaker 12: enough about himself. He doesn't have a strong ego. So

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Speaker 12: the risk factor for shooters is that they often feel

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Speaker 12: insulted by society. They feel that they are in a

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Speaker 12: one down position, that everybody's bullying them, everybody's acting like

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Speaker 12: they're better than them, and they hold on to every

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Speaker 12: little grudge until they have some kind of a profound

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Speaker 12: loss in their life, and in this case it may

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Speaker 12: have been dropping out of college, and they become even angrier.

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Speaker 12: And when they decide to shoot, they don't just walk

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Speaker 12: through the crowd, Nancy. They're always on the top of

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Speaker 12: a building. Have you noticed that about school shooters? I mean,

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Speaker 12: one we covered many years ago was a guy who

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Speaker 12: stood at the top of a staircase after having locked

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Speaker 12: all the doors so the students wouldn't get out. We

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Speaker 12: call it like the fish in a barrel kind of

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Speaker 12: moo of the shooting. So that's the reversing of the

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Speaker 12: feeling of being powerless. Now he's in a powerful position.

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Speaker 12: He's like the big man on campus, literally whizzing bullets

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Speaker 12: over children and families' heads, talking about getting an erection

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Speaker 12: which is inscribed on the bullet, and feeling powerful for

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Speaker 12: the first.

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Speaker 1: Time in his life.

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Speaker 12: So he's trying to reverse a feeling of being powerless, helpless,

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Speaker 12: and at the bottom of society.

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Speaker 7: To receive the Resident Presidential Scholarship from Utah City University.

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Speaker 11: The value of this scholarship is approximately thirty two thousand dollars.

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Speaker 7: This scholarship is available for forty years or a semesters.

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Speaker 3: You see are in a live shirt with a Murgan

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Speaker 3: flag in the center, a data baseball down in large sunglasses.

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Speaker 2: He arrived on campus in different clothing, change into what

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Speaker 2: we see in those surveillance images, then changed back into

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Speaker 2: the other outfit.

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Speaker 1: He shoots, and then he's off the buildings in four days.

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Speaker 1: Then we see him limping as he's walking through.

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Speaker 2: He had a conscious objective formal charges read in open court,

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Speaker 2: but I'm more into those charges in my mind were predictable,

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Speaker 2: although the state did get creative in the aggravating.

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Speaker 1: Circumstances that they charged.

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Speaker 2: It's not just murder, it's aggravated murder with quote aggravating

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Speaker 2: circumstances and the significance of that.

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Speaker 1: In order to see the death penalty, you have.

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Speaker 2: To include aggravating circumstances. Just murdering somebody is not enough. Now,

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Speaker 2: there has to be aggravating circumstances. And to Randolph Rice

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Speaker 2: joining us vetteran trial lawyer, they vary, but in every

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Speaker 2: jurisdiction across our country, you have to have aggravating circumstances

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Speaker 2: to seek the death penalty.

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Speaker 1: In Coburger, it was mass murder more than one body.

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Speaker 1: It's mass murder.

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Speaker 2: Here explain the significance of them putting in the indictment,

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Speaker 2: in the charges, the aggravating circumstances, they have to be proved,

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Speaker 2: just like every element of the crime.

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Speaker 7: Nanth You're exactly right. You've got to prove every single

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Speaker 7: element because what happens is the jurors are going to

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Speaker 7: get a jury instruction at some point in time, and

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Speaker 7: it's going to have all these different elements and it's

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Speaker 7: going to say unless you find beyond a reasonable doubt

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Speaker 7: that every single element has been met, then you can't

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Speaker 7: find them guilty of that charge. And so there is

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Speaker 7: the issue with does the state meet these aggravating circumstances

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Speaker 7: that gets them to the conviction, that gets them to

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Speaker 7: the death penalty.

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Speaker 2: So, for instance, in every prosecution, and we'll just go

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Speaker 2: with murdersys or that's what we're talking about tonight, you

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Speaker 2: have to prove who is the victim, that the indictment

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Speaker 2: has the victim correct, You have to prove the jurisdiction.

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Speaker 2: You have to prove malice of forethought, even if it's

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Speaker 2: malicet lasts for a moment, the between twinkling of an instant,

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Speaker 2: the blink of an eye qualifies as time to prove intent.

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Speaker 2: But when you seek the death penalty, you have to

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Speaker 2: include these aggravating circumstances and then they become an element

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Speaker 2: of proof. You have to prove them each element beyond

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Speaker 2: a reasonable doubt. Like you said earlier, Correctly, they may

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Speaker 2: have to bring in a child to prove a child

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Speaker 2: was in harm's way. So we'll see how the state's

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Speaker 2: going to prove it. Crime stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 1: Another thing we are learning about how the defendant was recognized. Listen.

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Speaker 3: On September eleven, five, the day after the shooting, Robinson's

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Speaker 3: mother saw the photo and the shooter in the news

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Speaker 3: and data. Shooter looked like for a seven Robinson's father

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Speaker 3: called hers and asked him where he was. He said

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Speaker 3: he was at home sick, and then he had also

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Speaker 3: been at home home second on September.

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Speaker 2: Tenth, hold on just a moment, her money Rodriguez joining

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Speaker 2: US Daily Mail.

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Speaker 1: He said he was home sick. What did he add?

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Speaker 1: The dog ate my homework. I'm sick. That's weak.

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Speaker 10: These were details that I mean, we're really harrowing if

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Speaker 10: you imagine what these parents went through. As we just

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Speaker 10: saw official saying apparently the day after the shooting, this

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Speaker 10: mother looks at the images released by the FBI as

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Speaker 10: they were hunting this person down.

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Speaker 9: She thinks it looks like her son.

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Speaker 1: Calls him.

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Speaker 9: He says he's at home sick for the second day

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Speaker 9: in a row.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what, Joscott Morgan, what about it?

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Speaker 2: If I saw my son or daughter in a baseball

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Speaker 2: hat and a pair of sunglasses, I would still know

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Speaker 2: it's them.

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Speaker 6: Of course you would, Yeah, all of us would. There's

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Speaker 6: no way that you're not going to recognize your child.

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Speaker 6: I think the big thing here, you know, probably for

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Speaker 6: this mother, and this is more of a doctor Bethany issue,

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Speaker 6: But what do you do with that information? You know,

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Speaker 6: how does it because you've been with him his entire life,

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Speaker 6: so you know, again she's going to call him up.

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Speaker 7: She wants to confirm it.

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Speaker 6: You know, do I believe my lying eyes? And it

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Speaker 6: turns out that her we're not lying in this case?

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Speaker 2: And answer you know what, You're right, doctor Bethany Marshall.

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Speaker 2: How will this affect the parents going forward knowing.

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Speaker 1: They turned their son in?

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Speaker 12: You know, Joe Scott Morgan and I were talking on

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Speaker 12: the break and that sound where he has the thirty

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Speaker 12: two thousand dollars scholarship. Do you notice that his affect

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Speaker 12: is very flat. He doesn't seem excited, So it's the

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Speaker 12: mother that goes oooh, and then he kind of mimics

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Speaker 12: the woo in a less sharp tone or less elevated tone.

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Speaker 12: So I'm going to guess that this mother has a

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Speaker 12: long history of trying to pump her son up to

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Speaker 12: act normal in society. So when she sees this image

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Speaker 12: of him, I don't think is as much of a

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Speaker 12: shock as you and I might think.

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Speaker 1: I would guess.

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Speaker 12: You know how parents know their children that they've always

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Speaker 12: known something is wrong, and they're always waiting for the

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Speaker 12: other shoe to drop. She sees the image, it's confirmed,

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Speaker 12: she calls dad, Reality meets internal fearfulness, and now she's

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Speaker 12: the one who has to turn him in. Maternal guilt, Nancy.

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Speaker 12: She's going to feel maternal guilt not only that she

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Speaker 12: turned him in, but that she gave birth to somebody

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Speaker 12: who could have done this, and she'll blame herself for

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Speaker 12: having raised him in the wrong way. Although we know

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Speaker 12: these kinds of disorders are very biologically based, it is

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Speaker 12: not the parent's fault.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I understood about fifty percent of what you said. Okay.

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Speaker 1: I think what you said is.

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Speaker 2: The mother has likely spent her whole life trying to

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Speaker 2: present to the world and to herself and her son.

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Speaker 9: Is normal.

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Speaker 2: And I don't mean that he's mentally insane, because he

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Speaker 2: clearly knew what he did was wrong. He planned it,

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Speaker 2: he concealed it, and he covered it up afterwards as

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Speaker 2: evidence of guilty conscience.

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Speaker 1: He knew it was wrong.

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Speaker 2: But mom compensating, saying, Look, he won a scholarship, He's

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Speaker 2: so smart. Look this he, you know, is a boy scout.

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Speaker 2: Look he sings in the choir. He's awesome, he cuts

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Speaker 2: the grass. I love him, He's wonderful, all the while

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Speaker 2: knowing something is off. That's a lifetime of compensating. Dr Bethany.

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00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 12: Yes, this mother has her own lifetime sentence. And I

444
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,000
Speaker 12: obviously I haven't met this guy. I don't know if

445
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 12: he's associate path, but let's see. Theoretically, if he was,

446
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:26,600
Speaker 12: the mother would likely have noticed many things.

447
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 1: Look, look, Bethany, look at your screen. Look at your screen.

448
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 2: I grew up on a red dirt road, as everybody knows,

449
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:35,920
Speaker 2: and I always wonder I look at people with like

450
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:39,200
Speaker 2: a six bedroom home worth over a half a million dollars.

451
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 2: They're all going to college, they have great jobs.

452
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:45,680
Speaker 1: What's not to be happy about. I don't get it,

453
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,160
Speaker 1: Dr Bethany. Maybe I've set the standard too low.

454
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 2: But you know, I got a family, I've got a home,

455
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 2: I've got a job for right now, we're all healthy.

456
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:57,679
Speaker 1: I'm on top of the world.

457
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 12: I don't get it, Bethany, But we know that this

458
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 12: guy was supremely unhappy. He was so unhappy he couldn't

459
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,680
Speaker 12: even follow through with a scholarship, so unhappy that he

460
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:13,359
Speaker 12: can't even smile when he gets the scholarship. Nancy, this

461
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 12: has nothing to do with his upbringing or his family.

462
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,440
Speaker 12: I can say that fairly confidently, even without knowing them.

463
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:20,679
Speaker 1: This type of.

464
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:25,680
Speaker 12: Disorder is what we call psycho biological, meaning, to break

465
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 12: it down, there's something wrong with his brain. If you

466
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 12: did a brain scan, you would probably see that there's

467
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:34,399
Speaker 12: a there's a quieting in the part of the brain

468
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:37,720
Speaker 12: that's responsible for empathy. You might even see like a

469
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 12: coburger syndrome of bullying other people and wanting to be

470
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 12: in a one up position.

471
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 2: No, no, no, I'm not going to let you go

472
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 2: down the Aaron Hernandez route where they claim the defense climbs.

473
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 2: He kills so murdered so many people because there was

474
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:59,879
Speaker 2: something wrong with his brain. When he function completely normally

475
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 2: and excelled. It was a multi millionaire blew it.

476
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:08,159
Speaker 12: No no, no, But as he does like going to

477
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,399
Speaker 12: be on defense, this guy was not functioning normally. He

478
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:15,879
Speaker 12: was on top of that building sweating, depositing all this DNA.

479
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 12: In the text we read that he wants to take

480
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 12: the secret with him till old age, so.

481
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,399
Speaker 1: He actually thinks he's going to get away with this.

482
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 1: That is something seriously wrong with rise. Please get her

483
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:32,680
Speaker 1: back in the middle of the road and out of

484
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:33,119
Speaker 1: the waves.

485
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:36,360
Speaker 2: All criminals think they're the smartest one in the room

486
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 2: and they're not going to get caught.

487
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,680
Speaker 1: They all think that sure, it's not special.

488
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:43,879
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's why it's been proven that definitely doesn't work,

489
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 7: because it's not a to term for people to not

490
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 7: commit crimes because they don't think about I'm ever going

491
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 7: to get caught, so their final to worry about getting

492
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 7: shot at a firing squad.

493
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,120
Speaker 13: Mister Robinson, I also wish to inform you of your

494
00:26:56,200 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 13: rights against self incrimination anything that you say in court

495
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 13: today could be used against you, and we want to

496
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 13: protect your constitutional rights. Mister Robinson. At this time you

497
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 13: will remain in custody without bail.

498
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 3: Robinson's mother expressed a concern to her husband that the

499
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:21,439
Speaker 3: suspect shoot low life Robinson. Robinson's father a group. Robinson's

500
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 3: father explained that over the last year or so, Robinson

501
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 3: had become more political and had started to lean more

502
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 3: to the left.

503
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 2: As if somehow being left wing means that you're gonna

504
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 2: gun somebody down at long range. I think the significance

505
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:45,920
Speaker 2: of the mom saying the allegedclator had become more political

506
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 2: and left leaning was it was a departure from the family.

507
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 1: Values and what he had been his whole life up

508
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 1: until that point.

509
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 2: Now, we heard last night that a relative of the

510
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:06,879
Speaker 2: roommate blames the roommate for radicalizing the defendant. But the

511
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 2: reality is is it doesn't matter who persuaded him. It

512
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:16,959
Speaker 2: doesn't matter. He did this shooting of his own volition.

513
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 2: Many people have wondered did his parents know of his

514
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 2: relationship with his roommate.

515
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:25,400
Speaker 1: Yes, they did.

516
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 3: Listen, she said that Robinson began and day in his roommate,

517
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 3: a biological mal whose present transitioning generous. This resulted in

518
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 3: several discussions with family in person, but especially between Robinson

519
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 3: and his father, who had very different political views. In

520
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 3: one conversation before the shooting, Robinson mentioned that Charlie Curry

521
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 3: would be holding an event and you need you, which

522
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 3: Robinson said was a stud ataman for the advantage Robin.

523
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:02,720
Speaker 3: She's heard of spreading the page.

524
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 2: I'm not quite sure how a murder of a loving

525
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 2: father of two, a husband has turned into an argument

526
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 2: about furries and trans Sidney, So I'm joining me, crime stories,

527
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 2: investigative reporter.

528
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 1: None of that matters. It doesn't matter.

529
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter if he's straight, if he was gay,

530
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 2: if he was by, if he was trans. None of

531
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 2: that bears on the elements of proving a murder case.

532
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 2: How did that take center?

533
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 8: Stave si Well some interesting bullet engraevings, and we're learning

534
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 8: more about those. So at first we maybe thought that

535
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 8: this was a reference that Robinson was a furry, was

536
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 8: part of one of these counter culture groups. But it

537
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 8: seems like now based on his text to his boyfriend,

538
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 8: that Robinson was just making a giant joke. So his

539
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 8: references to the furry group notices bulge Uwu ooh wu.

540
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:14,720
Speaker 8: It was just a joke and it didn't mean anything.

541
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 8: So that's why this took such a big part of

542
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 8: this was we thought that he was making some kind

543
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 8: of statement with these bullet inscriptions.

544
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:26,960
Speaker 1: Are you saying the inscriptions on the bullet were just

545
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 1: a joke? Sydney Summer.

546
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 2: According to Robinson, that's what he told his roommate, Sydney.

547
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 2: The engravings that you are suggesting are just a joke.

548
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 2: We're on the bullets used to murder an innocent person.

549
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 2: So I don't know who's claiming you know that's a joke.

550
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:53,239
Speaker 14: Listen, remember how I was engraving bullets. The messages are

551
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 14: mostly a big meme. If I see notices bulge uwu

552
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 14: on Fox News, I might have a stroke.

553
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 1: All right, I'm going to have to leave it. That

554
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 1: really sucks.

555
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 14: Judging from today, I'd say Grandpa's gun does just fine.

556
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 1: I don't know.

557
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 14: I think that was a two thousand dollars scope. Delete

558
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 14: this exchange.

559
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 2: So this is an exchange that the legis shooter, the

560
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 2: Kirk shooter is having with the romantic partner, as the

561
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 2: roommate is being described. Okay, remember how I was engraving

562
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 2: the bullets? Whoa, whoa Wait a minute, number one, what

563
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 2: psycho engraves the bullets? I guess this guy in Luigia MANGIONI.

564
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 2: But that says to me, Randolph Rice, the roommate was

565
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 2: there when Robinson was engraving the bullets.

566
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 1: Hello, accomplice codefendant.

567
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 5: The problem, Nancy, They need that roommate in their case

568
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 5: because that roommate is so important to connecting the Kirk

569
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 5: killer Kirk shooter to those text messages.

570
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 7: They need to keep that roommate, that love interest happy.

571
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 7: They need to keep them close because that's going to

572
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 7: be probably one of their first witnesses.

573
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 1: So I hear what you're saying, Randolph, the two are

574
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 1: not mutually exclusive.

575
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 2: You can get his testimony and charge him as an

576
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 2: accomplished murder at the same time. In fact, m let

577
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 2: me guess, does your wife do all the cooking in

578
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 2: the home.

579
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 1: Have you ever heard of meat tenderizer? I would let

580
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 1: the roommate have a few months behind.

581
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 2: Bars to see if that jogs his recollection, so he

582
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 2: can be a co defendant and a witness at the

583
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 2: same time.

584
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 1: What about that thought he can.

585
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 7: But remember, you've got to put this in front of

586
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:51,760
Speaker 7: a jury. And how does the jury see that? Because

587
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 7: under your scenario, if you put him in jail and

588
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 7: all of a sudden, the defense train says, hey, you've

589
00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 7: been sitting in jail. The prosecutor puts you there, so

590
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 7: you feel you're forced to tell his story. That doesn't

591
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 7: look good in front of the jury.

592
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 1: No, no, no, you can argue that till you're blue

593
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 1: in the face. Randolph Rice.

594
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 2: The fact that he would be arrested as a co defendant,

595
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:19,720
Speaker 2: and again, everyone is presumed innocent until proven guilty in

596
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 2: a court of law. That said, of course, the code

597
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 2: defendant goes to jail. That's not unique. That said, what

598
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 2: do you make of that text? My original question before

599
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 2: you went off with your pity party about the roommate

600
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 2: going to jail, That shows me that he was there.

601
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 2: The roommate was there and would recall the defendant engraving bullets.

602
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 2: And don't you imagine me, go, Hi, Tyler Robinson, why

603
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 2: are you engraving bullets?

604
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 1: I would so are you telling me now he had

605
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 1: no idea what was happening?

606
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 7: No, I think you're right. He did have a knowledge

607
00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 7: of what was going on, and I think that there's

608
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 7: a potential that the roommates charge, and you're exactly right

609
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 7: on that. I'm looking at it from an optical perspective.

610
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 7: But if you wanted to charge the roommate, I think

611
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 7: you certainly had that ability to charge them with knowing

612
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 7: what was going on beforehand. The problem becomes can you

613
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:15,800
Speaker 7: charge them what happened after? And then the text messages

614
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 7: that becomes another sort of sticky, sticky situation.

615
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 2: I'm just trying to figure out what you have to do,

616
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 2: Chris McDonough to actually engrave a bullet. It sounds like

617
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 2: trying to thread three needles at once. How do you

618
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 2: engrave a bullet? Well, there's a couple of ways of

619
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,760
Speaker 2: doing it, Nancy. You can use, you know, a handheld engraver.

620
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 2: But let's also take a hard look at the messaging

621
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,760
Speaker 2: here as right, you just happened to have a hand

622
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 2: held engraver in your tool pocket.

623
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 1: Who would in your hand held engraver?

624
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 3: You know what?

625
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 1: Step back and punt. You have anything else for me, Yeah,

626
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 1: you can.

627
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 11: You can buy that really simple at home depot. But

628
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:02,840
Speaker 11: also recognize that he says most mostly the FN messages

629
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 11: were mostly a big mean I e. There's another messaging

630
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:11,440
Speaker 11: in the showcasing or the the cartridges that were recovered.

631
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 11: They only recovered the well. They didn't find any showcasing

632
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 11: on the on the roof, so that means a it

633
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,280
Speaker 11: was either left in the bolt of the of the weapon,

634
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:26,359
Speaker 11: and then the three in the magazine show. The fact

635
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:32,080
Speaker 11: that he was engraving a message on those cartridges tells

636
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:34,359
Speaker 11: us there's a bigger story.

637
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:47,800
Speaker 2: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, you know, Jess gott Morgan.

638
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:50,440
Speaker 2: This is why we discussed cases before we take them

639
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:52,920
Speaker 2: in front of the jury. As I'm sitting here, Jackie

640
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:56,400
Speaker 2: says she's got a handheld home engraver. You know, the

641
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 2: things you learn about people in a dark studio. But

642
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:03,800
Speaker 2: since McDonough dodged the question, if you don't happen to

643
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 2: be one of those people that have a home hand engraver,

644
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 2: then how would you do it with a knife?

645
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 1: How do you do that? And it's got to be

646
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:15,439
Speaker 1: legible because these were easily read.

647
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 6: Yeah, it does have to be legible. And the fact

648
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 6: this struck me from the beginning, you know, because we've

649
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 6: had a couple If you remember the Minneapolis shooting at

650
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 6: mass a few weeks ago that individual wrote these kind

651
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 6: of cryptic messages on the magazines themselves, but that was

652
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:35,959
Speaker 6: with a marker, like an ink marker. In this case,

653
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 6: you have to get something that is you know, I

654
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 6: think I mentioned maybe yesterday in the Morgue, we use

655
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 6: what referred to as diamond engravers to mark the basis

656
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:49,839
Speaker 6: of bullets, and this works on a metallic surface as well.

657
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 6: You have electrical engravers. I don't know if he went

658
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 6: that far.

659
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 2: And the problem is, wait, wait, I was about to

660
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:59,320
Speaker 2: mock you about the diamond engraver, but wait a minute.

661
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 1: Didn't he work as an.

662
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 2: Electrician nor as an electric electricians Well.

663
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 6: Yeah, that tool he very well might, or he could

664
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:09,840
Speaker 6: have some semblance of that.

665
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:10,759
Speaker 1: That would be.

666
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 6: What you have to have is a metallic body that

667
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:17,319
Speaker 6: will mark on brass, because this is brass. That's one

668
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:21,280
Speaker 6: of the softest metals that's out there, and people doing grave,

669
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:23,720
Speaker 6: you know, soldiers have been doing it for years and years.

670
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:26,320
Speaker 6: I wonder where you got this idea from. But you

671
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 6: know what, I'm more interested in, Nancy, not just the engraving.

672
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 6: I'm fascinated by the fact that this guy, according to

673
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:38,440
Speaker 6: the pressor not only left engravings to mark these rounds,

674
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 6: but he also left his DNA on specific components within

675
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 6: the weapon, even the trigger. Nancy, this guy's leaving signatures everywhere.

676
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 2: When you say within the weapon that you're right, where

677
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:54,880
Speaker 2: did authorities find DNA?

678
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 1: And they found a lot of it.

679
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm thinking, well, first off, they mentioned specifically the

680
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:03,440
Speaker 6: trigger housing, and I say housing actually on the surface

681
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:05,799
Speaker 6: of the trigger, so that's probably going to be touched

682
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 6: DNA where you're pulling the trigger. However, this weapon has

683
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 6: what's referred to as an internal magazine. It's not like

684
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 6: the classic magazine kind of drops out and you have

685
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:18,320
Speaker 6: to feed it back in. You literally, Nancy, have to

686
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:22,920
Speaker 6: take your thumb and press these rounds into that in

687
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 6: dwelling magazine. So any of those surfaces around there where

688
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 6: you're trying to leverage this thing, even on the surface

689
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 6: of the bolt, the handle of the bolt, any of

690
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:37,360
Speaker 6: these areas you can deposit DNA. And let's face it,

691
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 6: he had to sing wrapped in a towel. He's got

692
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 6: to sing in kind of a pristine condition he's left

693
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:44,719
Speaker 6: it in. So you know, they had a field day

694
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 6: when they got their hands on the sing in the lab.

695
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 3: Police kariny rob in sudden roommate a file one of

696
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:56,279
Speaker 3: your gull now was involving a romantic relationship with Robinson.

697
00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 4: The roommate all police that the roommate.

698
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:01,920
Speaker 3: Received that such for a while, and I said about

699
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 3: the shooting, and he did provide those messages to police.

700
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 14: I can get close to it, but there's a squad

701
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 14: car parked right by it. I think they already swept

702
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:15,319
Speaker 14: that spot, but I don't want to chance it. I'm

703
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 14: wishing I had circled back and grabbed it as soon

704
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 14: as I got to my vehicle. I'm worried what my

705
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 14: old man would do if I didn't bring back Grandpa's rifle.

706
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:27,120
Speaker 14: I don't even know if it had a serial number,

707
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:30,440
Speaker 14: but it wouldn't trace to me. I worry about Prince.

708
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 14: I had to leave it in a bush where I

709
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:36,560
Speaker 14: changed outfits, didn't have the ability or time to bring

710
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 14: it with I might have to abandon it and hope

711
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 14: they don't find Prince. How though, will I explain losing

712
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:44,919
Speaker 14: it to my old man.

713
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:48,480
Speaker 2: I think he needs to get his priorities straight. He's

714
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:51,839
Speaker 2: worried about his dad being mad he lost the Grandpa's gun.

715
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 1: What about the death penalty? That what is he thinking?

716
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:01,239
Speaker 1: Doctor Bethanny mar And.

717
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 2: Did you notice this is a recrey of all of

718
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:09,440
Speaker 2: the texts the alleged slator sends to the room. If

719
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:14,360
Speaker 2: you notice roommates not answering, He's like, what, But the

720
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:17,520
Speaker 2: guy's worried about losing Rampa's.

721
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:17,800
Speaker 1: Gun, Nancy.

722
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:20,360
Speaker 12: I'd love to talk about the idea that he thinks

723
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 12: that what's on the bullets are a meme. A meme

724
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 12: is a joke, so he's already minimizing the severity of

725
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:31,840
Speaker 12: the alleged crime. A meme is something that goes viral

726
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:36,800
Speaker 12: and everybody sees it. So there's this fantasy of being famous,

727
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:41,320
Speaker 12: like being some kind of a hero. The reference to

728
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 12: the bulge, I take all of this seriously.

729
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 1: None of it is a joke.

730
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 12: The bulge is getting an erection while you are shooting somebody.

731
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 12: If he were my patient, I would ask him what

732
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:59,840
Speaker 12: is sexually exciting about shooting somebody and whizzing the bullet

733
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 12: over a crowd of family and children. Is it that

734
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:07,399
Speaker 12: sadism is exciting? Having power over people as exciting. I'd

735
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 12: want to try to get to the root of that,

736
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:11,320
Speaker 12: to understand this guy's mind.

737
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 1: You know what, There's so much happening in this case.

738
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 2: Remember the old guy at the get go that claims

739
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:20,400
Speaker 2: he was responsible for the shaving.

740
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 1: I did it. I did it, raising both hands now.

741
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:25,879
Speaker 2: Saying that he was just trying to give the real

742
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:30,400
Speaker 2: shooter a chance to get away. Okay, listen to what

743
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 2: the alleged shater says about that.

744
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:34,360
Speaker 1: I thought they caught the person.

745
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 14: No, they grabbed some crazy old dude that interrogated someone

746
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 14: in similar clothing. I had planned to grab my rifle

747
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 14: from my drop points shortly after, but most of that

748
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 14: side of town got locked down. It's quiet, almost enough

749
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 14: to get out, but there's one vehicle lingering.

750
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:50,759
Speaker 1: Why why did I do it?

751
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:51,359
Speaker 3: Yeah?

752
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 14: I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can't be

753
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:57,400
Speaker 14: negotiated out. If I am able to grab my rifle unseen,

754
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:00,440
Speaker 14: I will have left no evidence. Going to attempt to

755
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:03,359
Speaker 14: retrieve it again. Hopefully they have moved on. I haven't

756
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 14: seen anything about them finding it.

757
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:06,400
Speaker 1: How long have you been planning this?

758
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:08,759
Speaker 14: A bit over a week, I believe.

759
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 2: So much for the insanity defense, he had this thing

760
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 2: planned out cold. But my point is George Zen, the

761
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:19,480
Speaker 2: one that threw investigators off at the beginning, claiming he

762
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:22,959
Speaker 2: did it. He was arrested. Now everybody's trashing the FBI

763
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:24,759
Speaker 2: director for arresting him.

764
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:26,400
Speaker 1: He said he did it.

765
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:31,759
Speaker 2: Well, there's a sad sack right there. Okay, bombshell, Harmonia Rodriguez.

766
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:35,400
Speaker 2: George Zen has caught a few charges himself, hasn't he.

767
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:38,800
Speaker 9: Yeah, this has been another incredible part of the story.

768
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:41,800
Speaker 10: As Hugh said, right after the shooting, this man was

769
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:43,560
Speaker 10: film saying I shot him.

770
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:44,359
Speaker 9: I shot him.

771
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:47,360
Speaker 10: Now, apparently he has told police that he wanted to

772
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:51,239
Speaker 10: give the actual shooter time to get away. We have

773
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:54,280
Speaker 10: learned that he is someone who has previously caused trouble

774
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:57,440
Speaker 10: in the area, and he's now charged with child pornography.

775
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 2: That just tribled off your tongue. Did you a child pornogracy?

776
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:03,520
Speaker 9: Correct?

777
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:07,040
Speaker 10: After he was taken into custody right after this shooting.

778
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:10,840
Speaker 10: Days later, he has been charged with this crime.

779
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:14,280
Speaker 13: So, mister Robinson, you have a right to an attorney.

780
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 13: If you cannot afford one, the court can appoint in

781
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:20,880
Speaker 13: turning to represent you. I have reviewed your declaration of

782
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 13: financial status and find that you are indigent. I'm provisually

783
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 13: provisionally appointing a rule a qualified attorney to represent you

784
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 13: on your case, mister Robinson, Along with their filing of

785
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 13: their appearance of counsel, the assigned attorneys must file declarations

786
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 13: with the court that outline their qualifications under Rule eight

787
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:45,759
Speaker 13: and Rule eight C. I'm sorry under Rule eight B

788
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 13: and Rule eight C for council appointment in a case

789
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 13: where death may be a sentencing option.

790
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:55,560
Speaker 2: As we go to air tonight, the state still building

791
00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 2: its case against the alleged Charlie Kirk shooter.

792
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 1: If you know or think you know.

793
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:06,840
Speaker 2: Anything about the case, regardless of whether you think it

794
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:12,959
Speaker 2: is important or not, please dial eight zero one five

795
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 2: seventy nine fourteen hundred eight one five seventy nine fourteen

796
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:26,319
Speaker 2: hundred or go to Tips dot FBI dot gov. Now

797
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 2: we remember an American hero trooper and Jerry Adamic, Texas

798
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:34,880
Speaker 2: Department Public Safety killed in the line of duty, leaving

799
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:41,960
Speaker 2: behind a grieving wife, Roxanne, and five children. American hero

800
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:48,719
Speaker 2: trooper Jerry Adam ic Nancy Gray signing off goodbye friend,