WEBVTT - Hell and Gone Murder Line: Shannon Hercutt 0:00:08.245 --> 0:00:13.885 School of Humans. On August third, two thousand and nine, 0:00:14.045 --> 0:00:17.885 just before midnight, an on Star satellite service got a 0:00:17.925 --> 0:00:21.725 notification of an emergency from inside a Cadillac Escalade that 0:00:21.725 --> 0:00:25.525 had crashed. The vehicle had plunged off a cliff just 0:00:25.605 --> 0:00:29.605 off Walker Trail in Severe County, Tennessee. The on Star 0:00:29.685 --> 0:00:33.365 service called nine one one and police responded to the scene. 0:00:33.445 --> 0:00:35.925 They found a bent guard rail. The car was in 0:00:35.965 --> 0:00:37.925 the middle of the woods, so it was hard to 0:00:37.965 --> 0:00:41.365 get down to the crash scene. Deputies had to repel 0:00:41.445 --> 0:00:43.605 to the bottom of a one hundred and twenty five 0:00:43.645 --> 0:00:47.005 foot drop off. When they got down there, they saw 0:00:47.045 --> 0:00:51.325 the black two thousand and seven Cadillac Escalade. Inside the 0:00:51.405 --> 0:00:54.925 twisted metal wreckage of that car, they found the body 0:00:55.005 --> 0:00:59.205 of forty year old Shannon Hercut. At first, the Tennessee 0:00:59.285 --> 0:01:02.165 Highway Patrol said Shannon had died in a car accident. 0:01:02.725 --> 0:01:05.445 It seemed like a tragic fatality but nothing more than that. 0:01:06.685 --> 0:01:09.645 But a few days later, Shannon her Cut's manner of 0:01:09.685 --> 0:01:13.645 death was changed to homicide. Local authorities said someone had 0:01:13.685 --> 0:01:16.685 beaten her to death, then put her inside the car 0:01:16.765 --> 0:01:20.565 to stage the accident. Shannon was well known. She was 0:01:20.605 --> 0:01:24.405 friendly and outgoing, a successful and well liked local businesswoman, 0:01:25.245 --> 0:01:28.165 but according to her own family, she was also someone 0:01:28.205 --> 0:01:31.485 who had a lot of secrets. There had been family 0:01:31.525 --> 0:01:36.005 feuds and legal battles related to her business and possibly 0:01:36.165 --> 0:01:41.125 some people suggested maybe even a secret lover. Now, over 0:01:41.165 --> 0:01:44.365 the years, this case has been covered multiple times. It's 0:01:44.405 --> 0:01:47.285 been covered by local media, national media, and even doctor 0:01:47.325 --> 0:01:51.165 Phil And every time I hear about this story, the 0:01:51.285 --> 0:01:54.885 same narrative has been put forward. But as you all know, 0:01:55.045 --> 0:01:56.925 I want to go behind the scenes and see what 0:01:56.965 --> 0:02:00.245 we can do to take this case forward. Who killed 0:02:00.245 --> 0:02:05.965 Shannon her Cut? I'm Catherine Townsend. Over the last five 0:02:06.045 --> 0:02:09.765 years making my true crime podcast, Helen Gone, I've learned 0:02:09.805 --> 0:02:12.405 there's no such thing as a small town where murder 0:02:12.525 --> 0:02:16.765 never happens. I've received hundreds of messages from people all 0:02:16.805 --> 0:02:20.085 around the country asking for help with an unsolved murder 0:02:20.125 --> 0:02:24.365 that's affected them, their families, and their communities. And now 0:02:24.765 --> 0:02:27.325 they have a new way to reach out. If you 0:02:27.405 --> 0:02:29.285 have a case you'd like me and my team to 0:02:29.325 --> 0:02:31.965 look into, you can reach out to us at our 0:02:32.005 --> 0:02:35.285 Helen Gone Murder line at six seven eight seven four 0:02:35.365 --> 0:02:39.645 four six ' one four five that's six seven eight, seven, 0:02:39.725 --> 0:02:43.645 four four, six ' one four or five. This is 0:02:43.685 --> 0:03:35.245 Helen Gone Murder line. I was contacted about the Shannon 0:03:35.325 --> 0:03:39.845 her Cut case by listener a while back. As always, 0:03:39.885 --> 0:03:43.005 we start with victimology. We want to know who Shannon 0:03:43.245 --> 0:03:45.485 was and what was going on in her life in 0:03:45.525 --> 0:03:49.805 the time period immediately before she died. Shannon her Cut 0:03:49.845 --> 0:03:53.365 was born in Severeville, Tennessee, on May twenty second, nineteen 0:03:53.405 --> 0:03:56.245 sixty nine. This is an area that gets a lot 0:03:56.285 --> 0:03:58.965 of tourists. It's in the Great Smoky Mountains and it's 0:03:59.045 --> 0:04:04.445 near Dollywood Dolly Parton's theme park. In Pigeon Forge, Shannon's mom, Patricia, 0:04:04.485 --> 0:04:06.845 ran a general store she opened up in the early nineties. 0:04:06.885 --> 0:04:10.925 It was called Anti Bellams. Eventually, Shannon went out on 0:04:10.965 --> 0:04:14.005 her own. She opened up a real estate and rental business, 0:04:14.165 --> 0:04:18.165 also using the family business name. Shannon's business was called 0:04:18.205 --> 0:04:21.845 Anti Bellum's Realty and Rentals. It was in Pigeon Forge, 0:04:22.005 --> 0:04:25.605 near where she grew up. Opening this business was a 0:04:25.805 --> 0:04:29.045 very smart moved because over the years the demand for 0:04:29.085 --> 0:04:32.325 rental properties skyrocketed in that area, and Shannon did very 0:04:32.325 --> 0:04:35.205 well for herself. She was in charge of renting out 0:04:35.245 --> 0:04:39.205 around one hundred and thirty cabins. She also oversaw other projects, 0:04:39.405 --> 0:04:42.205 including the opening of a local playground called Mount Ton 0:04:42.205 --> 0:04:47.245 of Fun. In media reports, Shannon is described as single 0:04:47.325 --> 0:04:50.205 and happy. She never married and didn't have any children, 0:04:50.845 --> 0:04:52.925 but she had a lot of friends and was active 0:04:52.965 --> 0:04:56.165 in her town and in her church. One of her 0:04:56.205 --> 0:04:59.685 relatives in an interview, made a comment about Shannon being 0:04:59.765 --> 0:05:04.565 strong willed, which can sometimes mean if someone's very opinionated, 0:05:04.685 --> 0:05:07.285 perhaps that could could point to them getting into conflict 0:05:07.285 --> 0:05:09.805 with people. But a lot of people said that Shannon 0:05:09.885 --> 0:05:12.125 was generally very well liked at work and that the 0:05:12.125 --> 0:05:14.325 people who worked for her were very loyal to her, 0:05:15.045 --> 0:05:18.085 but her life wasn't perfect. At the time of her 0:05:18.125 --> 0:05:21.245 death in two thousand and nine, Shannon was dealing with 0:05:21.365 --> 0:05:26.485 difficult relationships with several different people. As we often see, 0:05:26.685 --> 0:05:30.885 big success sometimes brings business rivals or threats of lawsuits 0:05:30.885 --> 0:05:34.565 and people wanting money. One of the people Shannon was 0:05:34.565 --> 0:05:39.805 feuding with was her own father, Ted hercut again. Over 0:05:39.845 --> 0:05:43.285 the years, everything that I've read about this case has 0:05:43.565 --> 0:05:46.485 seemed to have the same narrative that a lot of 0:05:46.485 --> 0:05:49.805 people suspect Ted and that he totally denies that he's 0:05:49.805 --> 0:05:54.005 involved in his daughter's death. So now we fast forward 0:05:54.005 --> 0:05:56.405 to August third, two thousand and nine. In the hours 0:05:56.445 --> 0:06:01.285 immediately following that car crash. On that day, Ted Hircut 0:06:01.325 --> 0:06:04.525 had an alibi. At the time of Shannon's murder, He 0:06:04.645 --> 0:06:07.405 was almost four hundred miles away in Myrtle Beach, South 0:06:07.405 --> 0:06:11.965 Carolina with his wife, Shannon's stepmother, Anita. His other daughter, 0:06:12.045 --> 0:06:15.885 Shannon's sister, Penny Stevens, was also nearby vacationing with her 0:06:15.885 --> 0:06:20.765 young daughter. Later on, when Ted and Penny appeared on 0:06:20.845 --> 0:06:24.445 Doctor Phil in what was a very emotional and memorable episode, 0:06:25.125 --> 0:06:28.045 Ted told Doctor Phil that he got a call from 0:06:28.085 --> 0:06:30.725 his former son in law, a guy named Jerry Stevens, 0:06:30.725 --> 0:06:32.965 who used to be married to Penny and who apparently 0:06:33.005 --> 0:06:36.885 worked in law enforcement. Ted said Jerry called him to 0:06:36.925 --> 0:06:40.485 break the news that Shannon's body had been found. Penny 0:06:40.525 --> 0:06:42.365 got the news on the same day, and she later 0:06:42.445 --> 0:06:45.325 told reporters that when she heard what happened to her sister, 0:06:45.445 --> 0:06:48.205 she immediately thought that this could not have been an accident. 0:06:49.245 --> 0:06:52.205 Ted said he also immediately suspected this had not been 0:06:52.285 --> 0:06:55.965 a traffic accident. There were some details that just seemed off, 0:06:56.045 --> 0:06:58.205 like the fact that Shannon was not wearing her seat 0:06:58.205 --> 0:07:01.805 belt when the car crashed. Apparently she always made a 0:07:01.805 --> 0:07:05.205 point of wearing her seat belt. Her family also wondered 0:07:05.285 --> 0:07:08.445 why she would be driving in that area alone late 0:07:08.485 --> 0:07:10.445 at night, which was definitely not a part of her 0:07:10.485 --> 0:07:15.565 regular routine. But most crucially, when the car was found, 0:07:15.725 --> 0:07:20.405 both the driver's side and passenger window were down. Both 0:07:20.485 --> 0:07:24.445 Ted and Penny, his daughter, agreed Shannon would never have 0:07:24.565 --> 0:07:28.245 those windows down because she was obsessive about keeping her 0:07:28.325 --> 0:07:33.045 hair perfect, and obviously, in that high humidity, having both 0:07:33.085 --> 0:07:35.405 windows down with the wind blowing in her hair was 0:07:35.525 --> 0:07:37.885 just not something that they said Shannon would ever do. 0:07:38.525 --> 0:07:40.445 If she did have to go out after dark, she 0:07:40.445 --> 0:07:42.285 would have those windows up and she would have the 0:07:42.325 --> 0:07:48.565 ac blasting. Police ruled Shannon's death an accident, and they 0:07:48.565 --> 0:07:53.125 didn't want to do an autopsy, but Ted insisted. He 0:07:53.165 --> 0:07:55.925 refused to sign a form allowing Shannon to be buried. 0:07:56.885 --> 0:07:58.925 He also called a friend of his, a guy named 0:07:58.965 --> 0:08:02.605 Jerry Grubbs. Now. Jerry was a retired National Park Service 0:08:02.685 --> 0:08:05.165 ranger who also worked in law enforcement and later became 0:08:05.165 --> 0:08:09.245 a prime an investigator. Jerry said that he found physical 0:08:09.285 --> 0:08:12.045 evidence at that crime scene. Physical evidence, he said, was 0:08:12.085 --> 0:08:15.885 overlooked both by the Sheriff's office and the Tennessee Highway Patrol. 0:08:17.245 --> 0:08:21.045 In a video that Jerry posted on YouTube, he films 0:08:21.085 --> 0:08:23.885 the area where the car wrecked and says, based on 0:08:23.965 --> 0:08:27.005 how that car was found, he thinks that it basically 0:08:27.005 --> 0:08:30.125 did a straight drop. He said that if the car 0:08:30.165 --> 0:08:33.005 had been traveling at any rate of speed, it would 0:08:33.045 --> 0:08:35.125 have been airborne and it would have been found way 0:08:35.165 --> 0:08:38.645 deeper in the forest. There was also no real damage 0:08:38.645 --> 0:08:40.965 to the windshield and no skid marks from the tire 0:08:40.965 --> 0:08:44.605 tracks of the scene, which presumably meant that no one 0:08:44.725 --> 0:08:48.405 slammed on the brakes to try to avoid an accident. Later, 0:08:48.445 --> 0:08:50.525 a team went in and they found out through looking 0:08:50.565 --> 0:08:53.965 at the car's electrical system that Shannon had only been 0:08:53.965 --> 0:08:57.405 traveling at seven miles per hour before the crash. She 0:08:57.485 --> 0:09:00.045 wasn't even going fast enough for her air bags to deploy. 0:09:01.365 --> 0:09:04.565 Ted told reporters that Shannon's injuries did not appear to 0:09:04.565 --> 0:09:07.525 have come from the car craft gosh, he said at 0:09:07.525 --> 0:09:10.645 the time. Quote the paramedic said her head had a 0:09:10.685 --> 0:09:13.085 gash in it the size of a grapefruit, and there 0:09:13.125 --> 0:09:15.365 was nothing inside the car that could have made that 0:09:15.485 --> 0:09:20.925 gash end quote. At that point, the Sheriff's office investigators 0:09:21.005 --> 0:09:24.845 finally agreed to an autopsy, and when that autopsy came back, 0:09:25.325 --> 0:09:28.565 it became clear that Shannon's injuries had not happened in 0:09:28.565 --> 0:09:32.925 the car accident. Police said someone beat her to death 0:09:33.005 --> 0:09:36.285 at her home, put her inside that car, and pushed 0:09:36.285 --> 0:09:39.605 her over that hill. Cause of death was blunt forced 0:09:39.645 --> 0:09:43.165 trauma to Shannon's head, and the manner of death was 0:09:43.285 --> 0:09:54.125 changed from accident to homicide. Three days after Shannon's body 0:09:54.205 --> 0:09:57.205 was found, police finally went to her house to look around. 0:09:58.445 --> 0:10:01.725 Shannon's sister, Penny went to her house too. She was 0:10:01.765 --> 0:10:03.965 there to pick out an outfit for her sister to 0:10:04.005 --> 0:10:07.845 be buried in. She later told Knox News that when 0:10:07.885 --> 0:10:10.965 she arrived to that house, she saw that some things 0:10:10.965 --> 0:10:13.165 in her sister's residence seemed to be out of place. 0:10:14.045 --> 0:10:16.485 She saw a baseball bat in the back of Shannon's 0:10:16.525 --> 0:10:19.725 work truck. She also saw what appeared to be blood 0:10:19.965 --> 0:10:23.285 on the refrigerator that was in Shannon's garage, right by 0:10:23.285 --> 0:10:27.405 the handle. She told the news station, quote, I did 0:10:27.485 --> 0:10:31.045 notice two wine cooler type bottles on the floor busted, 0:10:31.085 --> 0:10:34.565 and that was it end quote. There were also no 0:10:34.765 --> 0:10:38.365 signs of forest entry. Police had a few theories at 0:10:38.365 --> 0:10:41.525 this point, but no real leads. They considered the possibility 0:10:41.565 --> 0:10:43.845 that it could have been an angry client of Shannon's, 0:10:43.885 --> 0:10:47.005 someone that she had a business to spete with, but 0:10:47.165 --> 0:10:50.405 Penny made it clear that she had another prime suspect 0:10:50.445 --> 0:10:55.765 in mind for Shannon's murder, their father, Ted Harcut. So 0:10:55.885 --> 0:10:59.805 let's go back and look at the family relationships. Penny 0:10:59.885 --> 0:11:02.845 and Ted appeared on The Doctor Phil's show in twenty fifteen, 0:11:02.925 --> 0:11:06.965 and on that show, it's immediately clear that there is 0:11:07.005 --> 0:11:11.405 a lot of animosity between Ted and Penny. She told 0:11:11.445 --> 0:11:15.605 Doctor Phil that since she was very young, her father 0:11:15.685 --> 0:11:19.325 had been behaving in extremely disturbing ways. She said he'd 0:11:19.365 --> 0:11:23.085 been emotionally abusive and that he was greedy and a 0:11:23.165 --> 0:11:26.805 pathological liar. And when Ted Hurcut came out and tried 0:11:26.805 --> 0:11:29.725 to hug his daughter on stage, she refused to touch 0:11:29.805 --> 0:11:32.765 him or have anything to do with him. Reading between 0:11:32.805 --> 0:11:36.805 the lines, it seems like the bad blood between Ted 0:11:37.005 --> 0:11:42.285 and Shannon got worse after Penny and Shannon's mother, Patricia 0:11:42.325 --> 0:11:46.285 passed away. That happened in two thousand and eight. Patricia 0:11:46.365 --> 0:11:49.845 died after a long battle with cancer. She had been 0:11:49.885 --> 0:11:55.285 divorced from Ted for several years by then. After Patricia's death, 0:11:56.125 --> 0:11:58.645 Shannon inherited a piece of land from her, a piece 0:11:58.685 --> 0:12:01.885 of land that was apparently worth about a million dollars. 0:12:02.845 --> 0:12:06.165 Shannon and Ted got into a llegal battle for that land. 0:12:06.805 --> 0:12:10.365 They started fighting after Patricia's death, so about a year 0:12:10.445 --> 0:12:14.085 before Shannon was murdered. By the time of Shannon's death, 0:12:14.125 --> 0:12:17.005 Ted admitted that he and his daughter were estranged. They 0:12:17.005 --> 0:12:21.205 were not talking at all, They were only communicating through lawyers. 0:12:21.725 --> 0:12:24.725 So what was really going on when Shannon her cuts will? 0:12:25.685 --> 0:12:27.645 In two thousand and three, Shannon made a will and 0:12:27.685 --> 0:12:30.005 she left twenty nine percent of her state to her 0:12:30.005 --> 0:12:33.325 father Ted. But in two thousand and six, Shannon made 0:12:33.325 --> 0:12:36.965 another will, and in that will, she specifically mentioned that 0:12:37.045 --> 0:12:39.685 it was her wish that neither Ted nor his wife 0:12:39.725 --> 0:12:43.405 would inherit anything from her. Now, Penny claimed Ted was 0:12:43.445 --> 0:12:46.125 furious about that, about the fact that Shannon had cut 0:12:46.205 --> 0:12:49.605 him out of the will, but Ted has always totally 0:12:49.605 --> 0:12:54.165 denied that. Penny has always said that her father's motive 0:12:54.325 --> 0:12:58.765 in killing Shannon was money. But who really gained from 0:12:58.765 --> 0:13:02.165 Shannon's death? Because we know that Ted didn't inherit anything. 0:13:03.565 --> 0:13:07.485 Now explain this. Penny said that Ted didn't realize Shannon 0:13:07.485 --> 0:13:09.285 had changed her will, so he would have thought that 0:13:09.325 --> 0:13:12.765 he might inherit something from her. Ted said he never 0:13:12.845 --> 0:13:15.125 expected anything from his daughter's will and that he never 0:13:15.205 --> 0:13:19.205 needed any money from her. On Doctor Phil, Ted looked 0:13:19.245 --> 0:13:22.685 genuinely shocked when Penny stated bluntly she believed he had 0:13:22.765 --> 0:13:26.405 hired a hip man to kill her sister. I believe 0:13:26.445 --> 0:13:29.085 that Penny is sincere. I think she is convinced that 0:13:29.165 --> 0:13:31.205 her dad had something to do with Shannon's death and 0:13:31.245 --> 0:13:35.365 that she was afraid of him. And if you watch 0:13:35.445 --> 0:13:39.445 their interactions, it's clear, in my opinion, that there's something 0:13:39.485 --> 0:13:43.485 about Ted that seems off. At certain moments, he appears 0:13:43.525 --> 0:13:46.645 to be unhinged. I also think it's possible that he's 0:13:46.725 --> 0:13:49.805 lying about a few things, like the weird vandalism of 0:13:49.845 --> 0:13:52.445 Shannon's business that happened back in November of two thousand 0:13:52.485 --> 0:13:55.605 and nine, just a few months after Shannon's murder. On 0:13:55.645 --> 0:14:01.085 November twentieth, Pigeon Force police responded to shots fired at 0:14:01.165 --> 0:14:05.125 Shannon's business, Annie Bellham's Realty in Nightly Rentals. Someone had 0:14:05.125 --> 0:14:08.085 shown up there and started firing shots into the front door. 0:14:08.805 --> 0:14:12.205 They fired off eight rounds in all. Penny said her 0:14:12.245 --> 0:14:15.285 father had confessed to her that he was the one 0:14:15.325 --> 0:14:19.125 who shot up the business, and when Doctor Phil asked 0:14:19.165 --> 0:14:22.925 Ted about this, he kind of sidesteps the question. It 0:14:22.965 --> 0:14:27.005 does seem like he could be lying about vandalizing that business. 0:14:28.485 --> 0:14:32.445 The Doctor Phil's show had a lot more family drama on. 0:14:32.605 --> 0:14:36.485 They also had Ted's third wife, Jan, who he married 0:14:36.485 --> 0:14:39.965 in the summer of twenty fourteen. After just three weeks 0:14:39.965 --> 0:14:43.285 of marriage, Ted got in annulment and the marriage fell apart. 0:14:43.805 --> 0:14:47.005 Jan told Doctor Phil that Ted had what she called 0:14:47.045 --> 0:14:51.045 a dark side. Now, I've been on Doctor Phil before 0:14:51.165 --> 0:14:54.245 talking about the Ebbie Stepec case, and so I actually 0:14:54.285 --> 0:14:57.045 know a lot about how this process works. I spent 0:14:57.165 --> 0:15:00.565 several weeks with the producers doing in depth research and 0:15:00.605 --> 0:15:03.205 giving them information about what was going on with the case. 0:15:03.725 --> 0:15:06.085 And I knew this in advance of the information that 0:15:06.125 --> 0:15:09.045 I gave them. They only aired a tiny portion of it. 0:15:09.645 --> 0:15:11.445 They do that for a lot of reasons. First of all, 0:15:11.485 --> 0:15:13.965 there's very limited time to present the case, so you 0:15:14.005 --> 0:15:17.325 can't go too deep into the woods. But also, and 0:15:17.365 --> 0:15:20.045 this is not an insult to TV, producers, but their 0:15:20.125 --> 0:15:24.765 primary purpose is presenting the story and making good TV. 0:15:24.965 --> 0:15:29.165 It's not really solving a case. So instead of going 0:15:29.205 --> 0:15:32.405 deeper into suspects, what we got on Doctor Phil was 0:15:32.445 --> 0:15:35.965 more family drama. Because then Ted came on again and 0:15:36.245 --> 0:15:38.405 he said Jan had a criminal history and that she 0:15:38.405 --> 0:15:41.205 had stolen four hundred dollars from him and stolen his 0:15:41.245 --> 0:15:44.965 credit cards. There's a lot more family drama that plays 0:15:44.965 --> 0:15:46.765 out on the show that I'm not going to get into. 0:15:47.165 --> 0:15:50.405 But at the end of the episode, my takeaway was 0:15:50.405 --> 0:15:52.885 that Doctor Phil seemed to come to basically the same 0:15:52.925 --> 0:15:57.125 conclusion that I did. He said Ted may be an asshole, 0:15:57.525 --> 0:15:59.485 but that doesn't mean he's a killer or that he 0:15:59.565 --> 0:16:02.485 hired a hitman. He kept saying the same question I 0:16:02.525 --> 0:16:06.365 was asking, which is what's the actual evidence that at 0:16:06.365 --> 0:16:09.125 that moment in two thousand and nine, Ted would have 0:16:09.165 --> 0:16:12.725 had a motive to kill his daughter. With all of 0:16:12.765 --> 0:16:16.685 these cases, when you have so many crazy rumors flying around, 0:16:16.685 --> 0:16:20.685 and especially when there are complicated family dynamics and accusations, 0:16:21.165 --> 0:16:24.445 I always talk about how important it is to filter 0:16:24.565 --> 0:16:27.845 out what I call the noise of the case. And 0:16:28.165 --> 0:16:30.045 while we want to keep an open mind and not 0:16:30.085 --> 0:16:33.485 ignore any possibilities. I think that the Shannon Hercut case 0:16:33.605 --> 0:16:36.485 is a great example of this. We need to filter 0:16:36.605 --> 0:16:39.165 out all of the family drama and focus on the 0:16:39.165 --> 0:16:42.685 facts of the case. As we've said several times over 0:16:42.725 --> 0:16:45.805 the years, being a creep is not illegal, and it 0:16:45.845 --> 0:16:49.685 doesn't make you a killer. Ted has never been charged 0:16:49.685 --> 0:16:53.405 in connection with Shannon's murder. He's always denied having anything 0:16:53.445 --> 0:16:57.085 to do with it. I honestly think that at this 0:16:57.165 --> 0:16:59.485 point the evidence points away from him, and there are 0:16:59.485 --> 0:17:02.685 a few reasons why. First of all, Ted was one 0:17:02.685 --> 0:17:05.805 of the first people to demand that Shannon's body taken 0:17:05.845 --> 0:17:09.005 in for an autopsy. He got that expert Jerry Grubbs 0:17:09.045 --> 0:17:11.565 to go to the scene. He told anyone who would 0:17:11.605 --> 0:17:13.685 listen over the years that his daughter's death was not 0:17:13.765 --> 0:17:16.685 an accident, which does not seem like the actions of 0:17:16.725 --> 0:17:20.085 a person who killed his daughter. If Ted had been 0:17:20.125 --> 0:17:23.845 involved in Shannon's death, it seems like the last thing 0:17:23.885 --> 0:17:26.565 he would have done, especially after the death had already 0:17:26.605 --> 0:17:28.445 been ruled an accident and she was getting ready to 0:17:28.485 --> 0:17:32.005 be buried, is to go public and demand that police 0:17:32.045 --> 0:17:37.125 investigate the possibility of murder. Ted died in twenty seventeen, 0:17:37.925 --> 0:17:40.845 so if Ted was involved, whatever secrets he had would 0:17:40.845 --> 0:17:46.245 have died with him. Even now, police say they've never 0:17:46.325 --> 0:17:50.685 found any connection between Ted and Shannon's murder. If that's 0:17:50.725 --> 0:17:53.685 the case, that means that Shannon's killer is still out there. 0:17:54.325 --> 0:17:56.725 And though police have been pretty tight lipped about the 0:17:56.805 --> 0:18:01.125 investigation so far, one investigator has said they believe the 0:18:01.125 --> 0:18:05.165 evidence points to someone outside the family, but someone who 0:18:05.205 --> 0:18:09.125 knew Shannon. He also said they believe they know the 0:18:09.205 --> 0:18:13.565 killer's motive. He made this kind of cryptic comment. He said, 0:18:14.365 --> 0:18:16.805 if I told you what it was, it'd be obvious 0:18:16.845 --> 0:18:20.845 who I was talking about. So to sum up, I 0:18:20.925 --> 0:18:23.805 don't think that the evidence points to Ted, and at 0:18:23.885 --> 0:18:29.005 least one of the investigators on the case agrees. Let's 0:18:29.005 --> 0:18:31.405 move away from the family drama between Ted and his 0:18:31.485 --> 0:18:34.405 daughter Penny and back to what we know, Back to 0:18:34.445 --> 0:18:38.845 the crime scene. With the evidence. We know where the 0:18:38.885 --> 0:18:42.565 car crashed. We know that this was a staged crime scene. 0:18:42.685 --> 0:18:46.045 The real crime scene took place at Shannon's house, probably 0:18:46.085 --> 0:18:50.325 in her garage. Then the killer or killers tried to 0:18:50.365 --> 0:18:53.485 make it look like a car accident. The real crime 0:18:53.525 --> 0:18:57.645 scene took place at Shannon's house, probably in her garage. 0:18:57.725 --> 0:19:01.085 We know this because Shannon's sister Penny saw smears of 0:19:01.125 --> 0:19:06.165 blood on the outside refrigerator that's in the garage. That's 0:19:06.165 --> 0:19:09.445 also where she found the two broken wine cooler bottles. 0:19:10.165 --> 0:19:13.805 Shannon was beaten to death, then the killer or killers 0:19:14.005 --> 0:19:15.805 put her in her own car and tried to make 0:19:15.805 --> 0:19:19.445 it look like a car accident. Like the investigator said 0:19:19.565 --> 0:19:22.525 to me, the crime scene and manner of death point 0:19:22.565 --> 0:19:25.685 to someone who knew Shannon. Well, there are a couple 0:19:25.685 --> 0:19:28.085 of possibilities. It could have been a crime of passion. 0:19:28.685 --> 0:19:32.125 But from my other podcast, Red Caller, I know that 0:19:32.205 --> 0:19:36.045 sometimes fraud detection homicides, murders where the motive was money 0:19:36.085 --> 0:19:39.405 can also look like crimes of passion. So let's explore 0:19:39.445 --> 0:19:42.485 the hit man theory. A lot of people have made 0:19:42.525 --> 0:19:45.045 the comment that if this was a planned hit, it 0:19:45.165 --> 0:19:49.405 was a very sloppy job. Apparently that's not that uncommon, though. 0:19:50.285 --> 0:19:54.245 Former FBI criminal profiler Frank Perry, who wrote the book 0:19:54.445 --> 0:19:57.605 Red Caller and White Collar Crime, which was about red 0:19:57.605 --> 0:20:00.645 collar criminals and had a whole chapter about committing murder 0:20:00.645 --> 0:20:05.165 for hire, wrote that often killers who commit white collar 0:20:05.205 --> 0:20:07.805 crime and then who kill to cover up their fraud 0:20:08.885 --> 0:20:12.005 often When they hire killers, they kind of go cheap. 0:20:12.885 --> 0:20:15.805 They don't have much money, so they'll go with really 0:20:15.845 --> 0:20:19.165 amateur killers instead of hiring professionals like the mob does. 0:20:20.085 --> 0:20:23.525 They hire people who basically are unemployed grifters, people who 0:20:23.565 --> 0:20:26.885 are floating around doing illegal or semi illegal kind of stuff. 0:20:27.245 --> 0:20:31.525 And often when they do hire these amateurs, the amateurs 0:20:31.925 --> 0:20:33.645 will tell a lot of people what they've done, and 0:20:33.685 --> 0:20:36.845 that's how they get caught. If this had been a 0:20:36.965 --> 0:20:40.525 professional hit, the killer would not have left behind so 0:20:40.605 --> 0:20:43.725 many obvious signs of staging. They would have cleaned up 0:20:43.725 --> 0:20:47.685 Shannon's garage. But most crucially, the thing that makes me 0:20:47.805 --> 0:20:50.485 move away from the hit man theory is the fact 0:20:50.525 --> 0:20:54.485 that I went back through the literature when red collar 0:20:54.525 --> 0:20:59.045 criminals hire hitmen, every single example I could find involves 0:20:59.445 --> 0:21:03.645 the killer bringing their own weapon. It's not impossible for 0:21:03.725 --> 0:21:05.965 a hit man to come to someone's house and not 0:21:06.005 --> 0:21:08.525 bring a weapon and then stop to drink a wine 0:21:08.565 --> 0:21:12.565 cooler with a victim, but it seems very unlikely. The 0:21:12.605 --> 0:21:15.165 only exception to this would be, of course, if the 0:21:15.245 --> 0:21:19.205 hip man was someone Shannon knew. The hip man theory 0:21:19.285 --> 0:21:22.005 isn't impossible. We have to keep an open mind. But 0:21:22.165 --> 0:21:24.845 in my opinion, with everything that we know, it seems 0:21:24.965 --> 0:21:30.685 more and more unlikely whether a killer is financially motivated 0:21:30.965 --> 0:21:34.885 or whether they're motivated by something else like jealousy or rage. 0:21:34.925 --> 0:21:37.445 The reason why they kill is to solve a problem 0:21:37.925 --> 0:21:42.365 because they're losing control over a situation. So if the 0:21:42.445 --> 0:21:45.765 motive for Shannon's murder was financial, we need to look 0:21:45.805 --> 0:21:50.125 at who could have benefited financially from Shannon's death. After 0:21:50.165 --> 0:21:53.925 Shannon died, Penny Stevens, her sister, and a first cousin 0:21:53.925 --> 0:21:57.805 of theirs named John Madwell inherited Shannon's real estate business, 0:21:58.005 --> 0:22:01.925 Annie Bellams. They started running the company together and according 0:22:02.005 --> 0:22:04.685 to the last information that I found, the company is 0:22:04.685 --> 0:22:07.725 still around as of a few years ago. At lease 0:22:07.845 --> 0:22:10.965 the cousin, John Madwell was running the business with his wife. 0:22:11.805 --> 0:22:13.485 I just want to be clear, I don't think for 0:22:13.525 --> 0:22:16.165 a second that Penny was involved in her sister's murder. 0:22:16.805 --> 0:22:19.765 I think she comes across as genuinely distraught, someone who 0:22:19.805 --> 0:22:22.805 loved her sister and wants to get justice for her. 0:22:22.845 --> 0:22:25.285 And she's also been the one who has been very 0:22:25.365 --> 0:22:27.845 vocal about keeping her sister's case in the public eye 0:22:27.885 --> 0:22:31.645 over the years. But I think there's someone we might 0:22:31.725 --> 0:22:36.445 be overlooking. Was there someone who was involved in a 0:22:36.445 --> 0:22:40.685 business deal with Shannon? Again, this is pure speculation because 0:22:40.725 --> 0:22:43.685 no one has ever suggested this, But could Shannon have 0:22:43.725 --> 0:22:46.525 found herself caught up in some kind of fraudulent behavior 0:22:47.005 --> 0:22:49.525 or was someone defrauding her and she was threatening to 0:22:49.525 --> 0:22:52.285 go to law enforcement or to sue that person. I'm 0:22:52.285 --> 0:22:55.605 making this point because right now, when you look at 0:22:55.605 --> 0:22:59.765 the evidence, there's no obvious windfall. We need to follow 0:22:59.805 --> 0:23:01.925 the money on this case. We need to see if 0:23:01.925 --> 0:23:04.845 there were any lawsuits pending exactly what was going on 0:23:04.925 --> 0:23:08.485 in Shannon's business at the time of her death. In 0:23:08.525 --> 0:23:11.805 addition to the money trail, we need to go back 0:23:11.885 --> 0:23:14.565 again to the stage crime scene, which in my opinion, 0:23:14.685 --> 0:23:19.125 is our biggest clue so far. In a publication called 0:23:19.165 --> 0:23:23.245 Collision or Collusion Homicides Staged as Car Accidents by Claire Ferguson, 0:23:23.565 --> 0:23:26.445 which was published in the National Library of Health, the 0:23:26.485 --> 0:23:30.005 author describes sixteen homicides that were staged as car accidents. 0:23:30.605 --> 0:23:35.565 The descriptive analysis examined common staging behaviors and victim, offender 0:23:35.605 --> 0:23:42.045 and offense characteristics. Her findings indicate that staged car accidents 0:23:42.085 --> 0:23:46.605 present differently than real accidents, and in a nutshell, every 0:23:46.685 --> 0:23:49.245 single thing that she mentioned sounded like it could have 0:23:49.325 --> 0:23:54.125 been taken straight out of Shannon's case. The article read quote. 0:23:54.405 --> 0:23:58.525 They often involve single vehicle, slow speed downhill scenes with 0:23:58.685 --> 0:24:02.965 middle aged female victims. Physical damage to vehicles is usually minimal, 0:24:03.125 --> 0:24:07.045 except for fire damage. Common offender behaviors include transporting the 0:24:07.085 --> 0:24:10.685 body to a vehicle, mutilation of the body, arson, and cleanup. 0:24:11.365 --> 0:24:15.605 The results suggest these efforts are often unsophisticated and potentially 0:24:15.685 --> 0:24:21.205 identifiable to investigators and physicians. I think we need to 0:24:21.245 --> 0:24:25.245 focus more on Shannon's private life. We've heard from her sister, 0:24:25.445 --> 0:24:29.045 and her sister said that Shannon did not tell her 0:24:29.085 --> 0:24:31.845 and her mother a lot about certain aspects of her life, 0:24:31.925 --> 0:24:37.125 that Shannon had been a private person. While investigators were 0:24:37.165 --> 0:24:40.965 focusing on the car crash scene, the real crime scene, 0:24:40.965 --> 0:24:43.885