Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm
Speaker 1: Jason Kelly. We're right here every day bringing you the
Speaker 1: latest news from the world's of business and finance, plus technology, politics, economics,
Speaker 1: all harnessing the power of Business Week reporters and editors,
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Speaker 1: can also listen to our radio show at two pm
Speaker 1: Eastern on Bloomberg Radio every weekday, or watch us on
Speaker 1: YouTube by searching Bloomberg Global News. Yeah. I realized getting
Speaker 1: ready for this show that we've got a trio of
Speaker 1: guests from Atlanta today. Very excited about that. And our
Speaker 1: first is Patrise Harris. She is back with us, Dr
Speaker 1: Patrise Harris, she's the president of the American Medical Association.
Speaker 1: On the phone from the a t oh my hometown.
Speaker 1: Dr Harris. Really nice to have you back with us.
Speaker 1: A very timely conversation. And your geography is relevant in
Speaker 1: part because that's where I want to art help us
Speaker 1: understand what reopening looks like so far, it's top of
Speaker 1: mind for all of us. Well, thank you for having
Speaker 1: me and glad to know you are a fellow A
Speaker 1: c Eliot. Uh. You know, certainly we've been concerted. The
Speaker 1: am A positions across this country have been concerned about
Speaker 1: premature reopening, especially without regard to data and metrics. And
Speaker 1: you know, the original plan from the administration's task force
Speaker 1: was really a good plan, and it's set forth at
Speaker 1: least fourteen days of uh decreased in sections, and so
Speaker 1: I'm really concerned. I remained concerned, and I just read
Speaker 1: a report today about a church in Georgia who has
Speaker 1: been opened for a couple of weeks, but several of
Speaker 1: the members have now become positive and so they are reclosing.
Speaker 1: So we certainly needs careful on on this reopening and
Speaker 1: be measured before we do so, before we relax restrictions.
Speaker 1: So do we need to so is that you're kind
Speaker 1: of saying we're going too fast? It could be in
Speaker 1: certain situations, and again it does depend on the data.
Speaker 1: That's why it's been so important, I think to make
Speaker 1: sure that there are metrics in place to review the
Speaker 1: number of hospitalizations, you know, not just the positive cases.
Speaker 1: We need to look at the testing and context. Now, look,
Speaker 1: we are if we increase testing, we are likely to
Speaker 1: get increased number of tests as an absolute number, So
Speaker 1: we also need to denominate. We need to bother number.
Speaker 1: We need the number of infections over how much we
Speaker 1: are testing. We need to track hospitalization. We need to
Speaker 1: have this data by zip codes so we can target
Speaker 1: interventions and know what areas we need to to focus on.
Speaker 1: For instance, if there's an area where the case numbers
Speaker 1: are low, uh no new infections, no hospitalization, then you
Speaker 1: could proceed more quickly. So it's all about having the
Speaker 1: metrics and loosening restrictions based on the data. Well, and
Speaker 1: Dr Harrison also feels like it sort of embedded in
Speaker 1: what you're saying is consistency of data too, And I
Speaker 1: feel like I've read and heard a lot about that
Speaker 1: that you know, we're not always getting true sort of
Speaker 1: apples to apples comparisons across regions or maybe even within
Speaker 1: a state. Are you guys at the a M A
Speaker 1: sort of working on on anything related to that to
Speaker 1: help ensure that we are making the right comparisons here. Well,
Speaker 1: I have been really concerned about the lack of standards
Speaker 1: data collection. Now. In fact, of course the A m.
Speaker 1: A wrote early on in recognition of the fact that,
Speaker 1: um black, we're over representative and death, so we asked
Speaker 1: for some standard data collection, and of course we asked
Speaker 1: for a data collection on race and f to city.
Speaker 1: So we really do need to be comparing apples to apples.
Speaker 1: I posted something yesterday on my social media about the
Speaker 1: importance of a more standardized method for data collection, because
Speaker 1: you know, the virus doesn't stop it county borders or
Speaker 1: state borders, and so it's very important. At the very
Speaker 1: least we are all looking at the same set of numbers,
Speaker 1: so we can have greater understanding of the data. Dr Harris,
Speaker 1: So why is it that we don't you said, you know,
Speaker 1: the metrics are very important. We need to really have
Speaker 1: standardization when it comes to the data collection. So why
Speaker 1: is it that I can have my home device, whether
Speaker 1: it's Google or Amazon, they know when I'm out of
Speaker 1: something or probably should be reordering something. Um, they can
Speaker 1: do so much. Why is it that there's so much
Speaker 1: information out there yet we don't yet have the standardization
Speaker 1: in the metrics the census right I think about how
Speaker 1: many things I got on that why is it that
Speaker 1: we haven't been able to create some kind of standardized
Speaker 1: system for data collection? Well, well, that is the question,
Speaker 1: isn't it. And let me just say of christ being
Speaker 1: in Atlanta and working personally, of course, the AM as
Speaker 1: a lot of partnerships with the CDC, and I'm a
Speaker 1: former health director, I can tell you uh that public
Speaker 1: health from the national level, from the state and the
Speaker 1: local level, has been underfunded over the last several years,
Speaker 1: and that we need the funding. We need to get
Speaker 1: the support to public health so that they can modernized
Speaker 1: data collection and make sure the data collection is standardized,
Speaker 1: so that that would help. We need to get the resource.
Speaker 1: Event but help me out some because Americans spend something
Speaker 1: like three point six trillion dollars on healthcare. And I
Speaker 1: understand that's going to services and supporting hospitals and so
Speaker 1: on and so forth and facilities, but why isn't some
Speaker 1: of that money at this point in the game, you know,
Speaker 1: creating some kind of system so that we have great
Speaker 1: data collection. Well, certainly that is our recommendation from the
Speaker 1: A and a UM and and we have called again
Speaker 1: from the very beginning for coordinated strategy because again this
Speaker 1: requires some coordination with with federal leadership, and that has
Speaker 1: been our act since the very beginning, not just on
Speaker 1: data collection, but also on supplies and testing and PPE.
Speaker 1: So we will continue to raise and amplify that issue.
Speaker 1: I'll say something more broadly, even free COVID nine teams.
Speaker 1: You know, public health is difficult, uh to explain because
Speaker 1: it's almost public health is is work work best when
Speaker 1: people don't even know it, right, when no one gets
Speaker 1: sick at a restaurant because of inspections. And so I
Speaker 1: hope it is my hope, uh, that everyone now has
Speaker 1: a better understanding of the importance of public health in
Speaker 1: the overall healthcare ecosystem, and that we look at more
Speaker 1: resources than we certainly pay attention to UM improved data collection.
Speaker 1: Our guest at this hour is Dr Patrice r As,
Speaker 1: President of the American Medical Association, joining us on the
Speaker 1: phone from Atlanta. Hey, I just want to Dr Harris,
Speaker 1: if I may just one more question in terms of
Speaker 1: data collection, because someone calling me out on Twitter and say,
Speaker 1: wait a minute, you ask you know, as if the
Speaker 1: data collection from tech companies is a good thing. UM,
Speaker 1: And this an individual says I disagree privacy is more important.
Speaker 1: Is that part of what's holding everything up is the
Speaker 1: privacy concerns, which are which are important ones. But I
Speaker 1: just do wonder if that's what's slowing down our ability
Speaker 1: to really get some standardized data collection when it comes
Speaker 1: to the virus. You know, I don't think it's necessarily
Speaker 1: slowing down progress on using technology, but it is an
Speaker 1: important consideration. UM. At the A M A we've been
Speaker 1: engaged and we just released what we call our Privacy
Speaker 1: Principles around data UM and so I just don't think
Speaker 1: that integrating obviously and concerns about competent reality should slow
Speaker 1: the process down. It should inform the process. But just
Speaker 1: from my viewing, it doesn't necessarily have to slow the
Speaker 1: process down. We'll just have to take that into consideration
Speaker 1: as we use data, use technology, and and it will
Speaker 1: say because you know, contract contact tracing is not new, right,
Speaker 1: We've been using that in public house for some time.
Speaker 1: Technology has a role to play, but you know, we
Speaker 1: cannot forget the human connection. Even before COVID nineteen, we
Speaker 1: may be contacting someone and letting them know some not
Speaker 1: so great information from difficult information. So it's about integrating
Speaker 1: appropriately technology with the human touch well, and the human
Speaker 1: touch I feel like is front of mine for people
Speaker 1: as they try and reopen. We talked a little bit
Speaker 1: about that a few minutes ago. Dr Harris, how much
Speaker 1: are you worried about a second wave of this hitting
Speaker 1: in the fall, Well, I'm extremely worried. You. That's been
Speaker 1: the worry all along from the beginning. I think we
Speaker 1: should remind everyone that one of the reasons that this
Speaker 1: is my my term our emergency mitigation where we really
Speaker 1: encourage everyone to shelter in place, because as you recall,
Speaker 1: we were worried about making decisions about who would get
Speaker 1: on a ventilator if we did not have on a ventilator.
Speaker 1: So I think people forget that and so appropriately we
Speaker 1: are having conversations about loosening uh these restrictions, but we
Speaker 1: have to make sure again that we are measured in
Speaker 1: our approach and if we have and if we go slowly,
Speaker 1: if there's a flight uptick, we know that data immediately
Speaker 1: and we can immediately reassess and readjust that. That is
Speaker 1: how we should be moving forward, loosening, reassessing and readjusting
Speaker 1: as necessary. But it is scary when you see China
Speaker 1: doing another lockdown. I think of more than a hundred
Speaker 1: million people and and I think specifically Wuhan. So you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's it isn't a clear straight path forward, and
Speaker 1: that's certainly is um Ner rocking. The other thing, we're
Speaker 1: all trying to figure out treatments. What did you make
Speaker 1: of the President coming out and saying that he is
Speaker 1: taking hydroxy chloroquine and this is a drug I mean,
Speaker 1: Anna has come out and and and actually cautioned against
Speaker 1: the use of some of these medicines, including I believe this.
Speaker 1: So what is your takeaway from that? Well, here's we're
Speaker 1: we stand at the A M A. We start and
Speaker 1: begin with the science and the evidence and the fact
Speaker 1: and as of today, there is no evidence that hydroxychloricum works,
Speaker 1: either in treatment or in the prevention of COVID nineteen
Speaker 1: research trials are underway as we speak regarding hydroxy chloroquine,
Speaker 1: and we really need to let the research pan out
Speaker 1: to know if this is safe. But what we do
Speaker 1: know now is the FDA has caution as into the
Speaker 1: use of hydroclor went outside of the hospital setting where
Speaker 1: you can't be monitored. So we we stand with the
Speaker 1: science and the evidence just got about thirty seconds. Do
Speaker 1: is this complicate though? A m A members doctors who
Speaker 1: are out in the field when the president does this
Speaker 1: and maybe patients come to them. I'm just curious what
Speaker 1: you're hearing and just quickly if you could, okay, well,
Speaker 1: it definite complements complicate. You know, physicians have always had
Speaker 1: shared decision making with our patients, going over the risk
Speaker 1: and the benefits, and we talk about the benefits even
Speaker 1: when they're life threatening. So this is our usual course
Speaker 1: of work. All right, well, great to catch up with you.
Speaker 1: We always appreciate your time. Dr Patrice Harris, president of
Speaker 1: the American Medical Association, joining us on the phone from Atlanta.
Speaker 1: And you know, a clear takeaway there is the data,
Speaker 1: the consistency of data, and the ability to really compare
Speaker 1: and contrast. And I was glad that Dr Harris called
Speaker 1: back to our earlier conversation where she was talking about
Speaker 1: those underrepresented and over um exposed in many cases populations,
Speaker 1: uh really over indexing in some of the different socio
Speaker 1: economic UH sectors. There so an important reminder, uh. There.
Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and
Speaker 1: Jason Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. All right, let's do a
Speaker 1: little Business week economics here. Kathleen Hayes, Global Economics and
Speaker 1: Policy Editor, back at h Q. Uh you're to hear
Speaker 1: how that's all going. She's Nar Bloomberg Interactor Broker Studio.
Speaker 1: I'm miss Sar Bloomberg Interactor Broker Studio. Carol Masser, Carl
Speaker 1: Ricka Donna also with US, Chief you economist for Bloomberg Economics.
Speaker 1: He's on the phone in New Jersey. So k H
Speaker 1: I want to start with you. I'm guessing you have
Speaker 1: been watching UH Chair Powell and Secretary Minuchin very closely
Speaker 1: as we have. What's your big takeaway so far? Because
Speaker 1: the market, at least on the equity side, it's like,
Speaker 1: all right, well, you know the backdrop for this, of course.
Speaker 1: The backdrop for of course is that the uh Democrats
Speaker 1: and Republicans are you know, they're they're battling over whether
Speaker 1: or not more stimulus would be needed now right away,
Speaker 1: how much or not. So that's the backdrop. And I
Speaker 1: think for both UH Chirt Powell and Secretary Mutun they
Speaker 1: went into this knowing that that for you know, from Mutune,
Speaker 1: for example, the Democrats would beat him up like crazy,
Speaker 1: and for Pow, knowing that they would push him hard
Speaker 1: to say clearly, yeah, I'm with you guys, let's do
Speaker 1: more stimulus now, and a Chair Pow, predictably, I think,
Speaker 1: slipped into the typical FED chair pattern that you kind
Speaker 1: of have to, which is to say yes, I think
Speaker 1: there could be more stimulus. But he said I'm speaking generally,
Speaker 1: in other words, it's up to you guys to do this,
Speaker 1: and you guys decide what that should be. And I
Speaker 1: think um anutun predictably said well, look, we've done lots
Speaker 1: of things. Yes, there's been some problems. Uh, And he
Speaker 1: I think it was much more wanting to be focused
Speaker 1: on all the things they've done that are falling into place.
Speaker 1: So long on the short of it, I don't know
Speaker 1: if if these testimonies did much more than reassure people,
Speaker 1: certainly from the FED, that they're saying they're still he's
Speaker 1: still willing to do more if needed. And I think
Speaker 1: even Chair Powell isn't ready to say today, yes we're
Speaker 1: gonna do more because they've you know, they've got four
Speaker 1: more out of nine programs to launch, etcetera. They have
Speaker 1: to see the impact they have. But again, I think
Speaker 1: you we pretty much we pretty much figured this is
Speaker 1: the kind of day were again. I thought it was interesting,
Speaker 1: but I don't think it it gave told us anything
Speaker 1: particularly new, anything new. Carl Rickadanna, Well, I think that
Speaker 1: the you know, the new angle here is how much
Speaker 1: pressure there's going to be on the fiscal stimulus. The
Speaker 1: the amazing amount of fiscal stimulus that we have delivered
Speaker 1: in the current quarter really is just enough to get
Speaker 1: us through that quarter. And so if we're if we're
Speaker 1: looking at an economy that still is significantly impaired as
Speaker 1: we head into the second half of the year, and
Speaker 1: most likely that's going to be the case. We'll probably
Speaker 1: have an unemployment rate that about as we turned into
Speaker 1: the back half of the year than or support is
Speaker 1: definitely going to be needed, and that's a fiscal story
Speaker 1: that Congresses in the administration have to deal with. It
Speaker 1: also will likely mean that FED has to do more
Speaker 1: as well, and a slew of FED speakers from the
Speaker 1: chair on down have made it abundantly clear that policy
Speaker 1: makers are not in a neutral setting at the moment.
Speaker 1: They are definitely looking to lean in and do more.
Speaker 1: They're just figuring out the best way to deliver that
Speaker 1: a combination. Well, yay, just telling something really quickly. I
Speaker 1: think the question is, yeah, but if we're going to
Speaker 1: do more, what more are we going to do? Who
Speaker 1: was it who said recently, you know, let's just let's
Speaker 1: put the money directly into people's pockets, right, let's go
Speaker 1: just give more money to people who who can't get work,
Speaker 1: who are out of work, who are you know whatever?
Speaker 1: And I think that's why this gets so complicated because
Speaker 1: there are many industries, there's many businesses, there's many kinds
Speaker 1: of people who have been hurt by this. And I
Speaker 1: think what um some people would like to see, which
Speaker 1: is remember when we criticize Berninke back during the crisis
Speaker 1: and of the financial crisis, too many programs that that
Speaker 1: whole idea, maybe just have a helicopter that drops money
Speaker 1: on people's front lawns, right. I think that's part of
Speaker 1: the issue here. If we're going to spend more money,
Speaker 1: who is it going to support? How is it going
Speaker 1: to support them? But it struck me that the money
Speaker 1: to like small business, that we're still main street, main street, right,
Speaker 1: that program we're still waiting for that to kick in,
Speaker 1: And that to me seems Carl's so important to this economy. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: so I'm all for Kathleen's advocacy of providing unemployment support.
Speaker 1: Maybe not literal helicopters. I thought you were. I thought
Speaker 1: you were supporting the helicopter, But you stay socially distanced
Speaker 1: from a helicopter. Carlson. That helicopter can land in my
Speaker 1: front yard, by the way, But unemployment insurance is really
Speaker 1: one of the most critical tools for delivering funds and
Speaker 1: filling the void where it's most acute during this crisis. However,
Speaker 1: we also have to think of the business side, the
Speaker 1: supply side of the occasion of the equation, because if
Speaker 1: we're not reporting those businesses, there won't be jobs to
Speaker 1: go back to when the lockdown is released, and so
Speaker 1: we really have to provide support on both sides. But
Speaker 1: the main danger is, and we highlighted this from the
Speaker 1: very start, uh to be too clever in delivery, and
Speaker 1: we saw that with the small business program. We also
Speaker 1: see that with the main street lending program, that if
Speaker 1: things are overly engineered and overly elegant, often they're not
Speaker 1: as effective as just a blunt force solution to the problem.
Speaker 1: So you really try multiple different things but make sure
Speaker 1: the cash is getting where it needs to go. And Carl,
Speaker 1: is the data. Are the data showing us in any
Speaker 1: sense at this point like sort of what's working and
Speaker 1: what's not? When will we see that? Well, I think
Speaker 1: most importantly to watch for for what's working our measures
Speaker 1: like Well, first of all, financial markets are a great
Speaker 1: sentiment educators. So the fact that the financial markets have
Speaker 1: come back to a meaningful degree tells you that maybe
Speaker 1: there is a light at the end of the tunnel
Speaker 1: for the crisis. The other thing to keep an eye
Speaker 1: on our other sentiment gauges like consumer confidence or small
Speaker 1: business sentiment, home builder sentiment, and those are starting to
Speaker 1: at least show a floor it's not some signs of recovery,
Speaker 1: but most critically will be the labor market metrics, because
Speaker 1: we need to get through the worst of this spike
Speaker 1: and unemployment to see that the economy is starting to
Speaker 1: move on to a more even cue. So maybe we
Speaker 1: also need a virus confidence or lack of confidence index,
Speaker 1: because so many people say over and over and over,
Speaker 1: until people are confident, until there's going to be a vaccine. Well,
Speaker 1: I don't think we can wait for a vaccine necessarily
Speaker 1: because they usually take a lot longer. But I think
Speaker 1: this whole sense of when does the tide turn enough?
Speaker 1: When are there enough treatments? Maybe those can be developed
Speaker 1: a lot more quickly where people are more willing to say, yeah,
Speaker 1: I know a lot of people. I have a friend
Speaker 1: who works for the airlines. She went back to work
Speaker 1: for her airline a couple of weeks ago. There are
Speaker 1: people who are going out there. There are people who
Speaker 1: would love to shop. There are people who are scared,
Speaker 1: and they maybe should be that they won't go near
Speaker 1: this for the long time. Carl, do you think you
Speaker 1: could get something like that started? Famous confidencing? Next, Let's
Speaker 1: let's let me see what I can do. But importantly,
Speaker 1: we can measure that confidence and a lot of other
Speaker 1: series like the ones I mentioned deferences, business gauges, financial
Speaker 1: market performance. So of course, if we had a confidence
Speaker 1: metric of you know, people's attitudes towards COVID nineteen and
Speaker 1: and whatnot, that would be useful, but it shows up
Speaker 1: indirectly through a lot of other economic gauges. Alright, Calera, Godonna,
Speaker 1: Kathleen Hayes, thank you both so much. Good breakdown from
Speaker 1: what we're hearing. Continue to hear a lot from that
Speaker 1: chair at j Powe. This is Bloomberg Business Week with
Speaker 1: Carol Masser and Jason Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. We want
Speaker 1: to move on to our next segment because man if
Speaker 1: Tom Keane doesn't know about this next guest in his company,
Speaker 1: we make sure he does. We're talking about bow Ties
Speaker 1: of Vermont, which started out making bow ties years ago,
Speaker 1: now does a lot more, including making masks to protect
Speaker 1: against the virun's transparency. I was doing research for this
Speaker 1: segment and I went to the website. I bought two masks.
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna tell you, uh. This week in our
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business Week Small Business Survival Guide, we welcome Greg Sugar.
Speaker 1: He's the owner of bow Ties Evermont. He joined on
Speaker 1: the phone though from Florida, along with our Bloomberg News
Speaker 1: editor Demitra Cassanedi. She's on the phone in New Jersey. Demetra,
Speaker 1: let's start with you. Tell us how you were drawn
Speaker 1: to Greg and bow Ties for your coverage. Sure, thanks,
Speaker 1: Carol um Well. I saw a post of his on LinkedIn,
Speaker 1: which is part of his story. I've talked to Greg
Speaker 1: in the past and connected on LinkedIn because of one
Speaker 1: of his other businesses a few years ago through an experiment,
Speaker 1: and I saw a post that said that he had
Speaker 1: masks and he was having a hard time finding people
Speaker 1: to buy the mask. This was in the first phase
Speaker 1: of his businesses to it when they thought and tried
Speaker 1: to do ppe and bring in the actual, you know,
Speaker 1: verified safe protective mask. So, um, so I chatted with Greg.
Speaker 1: I called him up, and we have spent a back
Speaker 1: and forth documenting his journey of the last two months.
Speaker 1: That will be publishing on our Small Business Survival Guy tomorrow.
Speaker 1: Um But it's really an extraordinary journey that's about maths,
Speaker 1: but really about listen to your customers, respond when they
Speaker 1: say they want something, and really be prepared, you know,
Speaker 1: to just kind of be very nimble and react quickly. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: I mean a big pivot here, Greg, So tell us
Speaker 1: about it, because one of the things it sounds like
Speaker 1: you did was think about your supply chain and your
Speaker 1: suppliers and your relationships in sort of a different way.
Speaker 1: Help us understand it. Sure, Um, Well, when when everything
Speaker 1: was sort of happening and we heard about all these
Speaker 1: shortages going on in hospitals, I was wondering why why
Speaker 1: there was a shortage, and my first instinct was, you know,
Speaker 1: there there must be a way to get this stuff in.
Speaker 1: And so I quickly contacted my contact in China and
Speaker 1: so when I've been doing business with for fifteen years,
Speaker 1: and I said, you know, we're there's a mass shortage,
Speaker 1: of protective mass shortage here in America. Are you guys
Speaker 1: able to create some thing? And he said, yeah, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of businesses now for getting getting started and
Speaker 1: producing uh in manufacturing these protective masks. So he and
Speaker 1: I spent about one or two days together, uh literally
Speaker 1: traveling China. I was doing it through wheat Chat, and
Speaker 1: we reached out and we finally found a couple of
Speaker 1: factories to do this. Um, I reached out. You know,
Speaker 1: I never cold call. It's not my style. I've been
Speaker 1: an e commerce men old life. But I cold called
Speaker 1: people I was reading about online or seeing even on
Speaker 1: TV and saying, you know, we can get you some masks.
Speaker 1: Um what he tell us what you need? And so
Speaker 1: I spent about the next two weeks hustling, um, spending
Speaker 1: every night on on wheat Chat, speaking to my factory,
Speaker 1: hustling to get sailed. And eventually I bought in hundreds
Speaker 1: of thousands of masks and got into healthcare workers around
Speaker 1: the country. Even though my business is really it's men's fashion.
Speaker 1: I sell ties, and I sell shirts, and I felled
Speaker 1: belt um pocket squares. But all of a sudden, I
Speaker 1: just I saw an opportunity because, as you can imagine,
Speaker 1: there's not a lot of boatie sails going on during
Speaker 1: this pandemic. So this for me was a way to
Speaker 1: stay above water, keep my workers busy, and really to
Speaker 1: make payroll. What's been tough, though, about being a small
Speaker 1: business owner right now, because we you know, Greg talked
Speaker 1: to a lot of small business owners, are those who
Speaker 1: work with them. I mean, it's this has been a
Speaker 1: really difficult environment. You sound like obviously you have found
Speaker 1: a way to survive here, but it's not necessarily been easy.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think one of the biggest struggles has
Speaker 1: been this PPP program because we've been required it's nice
Speaker 1: to have the money, don't get me wrong, but we've
Speaker 1: been required to spend that money in an eight week period.
Speaker 1: Uh during an eight week period. Though, that really, at
Speaker 1: least in retail, not lots going on. You're seeing that
Speaker 1: in restaurants and some other businesses. So I'm paying some
Speaker 1: workers to to sort of sit home and do nothing
Speaker 1: because we just don't have the business to do it. Um.
Speaker 1: That's sort of changed a little bit for us as
Speaker 1: we started getting into the cloth mask business. Um, but still,
Speaker 1: I think the biggest struggle for a lot of small
Speaker 1: businesses is this requirement to spend this this uh keeping
Speaker 1: money in eight weeks and really pay workers not to
Speaker 1: be anything productive. It would be so much nicer if
Speaker 1: we had a lot more time to use that money
Speaker 1: to pay towards payroll instead of being forced to do
Speaker 1: it during the sme week period. While our economy is
Speaker 1: sort of getting back up and running again, we're not
Speaker 1: at full speed and so, um, I can't keep my
Speaker 1: workers busy all the time right now. And so, Greg,
Speaker 1: what do you think? What does this portend for your
Speaker 1: business longer term? Given everything that you just laid out,
Speaker 1: You've been opportunistic, clearly, but it sounds like there still
Speaker 1: are some fairly significant financial strains here, especially when you
Speaker 1: think about sort of the mid term prospects. Yeah, well
Speaker 1: I'll tell you this. I mean, we did a really
Speaker 1: really quick pivot into cloth mass of the stuff that
Speaker 1: we all wear day to day, so now I'm not
Speaker 1: talking about healthcare workers anymore. I'm just talking about people
Speaker 1: like you and I, And we very quickly got into that.
Speaker 1: We had some customers reach out and say, can you
Speaker 1: make some mass um? You know you're I think the
Speaker 1: belief that we were in the textile business, it would
Speaker 1: be a sort of a natural thing for us. We
Speaker 1: also had been making our s instresses. We're making mass
Speaker 1: for healthcare workers fabric masks. This is back in March
Speaker 1: where they were wearing bandanas to to the hospital if
Speaker 1: they had to, And so we sent an email around
Speaker 1: and said, why don't you make them for your customers.
Speaker 1: So we quickly change that. So now I mean in
Speaker 1: the short term to answer your question, like the next
Speaker 1: three to six months. I mean, we still sell some
Speaker 1: bow ties and neck ties and shirts every day, but
Speaker 1: it's just we're probably down from last year in that world.
Speaker 1: So the mask um business is really what's kind of
Speaker 1: keeping us alive and keeping us afloat. So I'm gonna
Speaker 1: ride this wave. I'm trying to own the market. We
Speaker 1: we offer seventy styles right now. There's no other business
Speaker 1: that offers so many. I've got another thirty five coming
Speaker 1: next week in another forty week week after that. I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna say, because when I went on the website, man,
Speaker 1: so many were sold out. So you definitely are you know,
Speaker 1: tapping into something. Demitra just gonna say the last thirty
Speaker 1: seconds here for you. When you talk to small businesses,
Speaker 1: what are you hearing? Is it a lot of folks
Speaker 1: that are figuring away around this are a lot who
Speaker 1: are struggling, you know, it's full. I mean it's businesses
Speaker 1: like Greg where there might be a type of manufacturing
Speaker 1: that enables them to figure a way around, but it's
Speaker 1: still not recouping the kind of business that they were
Speaker 1: making pre crisis, and others are struggling a little bit
Speaker 1: more if they weren't necessarily in a certain kind of
Speaker 1: business that could easily, you know, be adjusted in a
Speaker 1: way that could either make maths or create a different
Speaker 1: form of you know, whatever you're producing and delivering it
Speaker 1: to customers. So it's still makes But the p P
Speaker 1: P point he made and the limitation on that is
Speaker 1: something that we have heard across the board as being
Speaker 1: more constraining actually in a way than than completely opening
Speaker 1: you up and making you feel like you're okay. And
Speaker 1: we've heard this a lot these some of these programs, right,
Speaker 1: that they're just kind of made so complicated, and that
Speaker 1: they're as a result, not reaching people quickly. I mean
Speaker 1: that this whole idea of these main street loan programs
Speaker 1: haven't reached the people that it's set out to help.
Speaker 1: That was a key part of the testimony this morning.
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, right, all right, we're gonna leave it there. Hey, guys,
Speaker 1: thank you so much. Demitro, thank you. Dimitri Casandi, she's
Speaker 1: a Bloomberg News editor on the phone in New Jersey.
Speaker 1: Greg Sugar, good luck with everything, owner bow Ties of
Speaker 1: Vermont on the phone in Florida. Bow Ties, it's really cute.
Speaker 1: It's really you'll like it. And if you checked it out,
Speaker 1: I will check it out for sure. And everybody needs
Speaker 1: mass these days. Broommro Journal. Yeah, but you let me drive.
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, no, no home. I want to drive,
Speaker 1: just drive, baby questions drying. This is the drive to
Speaker 1: the globe. Give me thanks, we'll drive us to dawn.
Speaker 1: On Bloomberg Radio. All right, it is time for the
Speaker 1: drive to the clothes. We've had an interesting market day.
Speaker 1: Investor is to some extent maybe listening to J Powell
Speaker 1: and Stephen Minution up on Capitol Hill. I think we're
Speaker 1: just kind of in this interesting environment. Let's see what
Speaker 1: Mark Lusheni has to say, his chief investment strategies at
Speaker 1: Jenny Montgomery Scott joining us on the phone from Pittsburgh.
Speaker 1: And as we bring him in, I do want to
Speaker 1: point out that equities at their loads of the day
Speaker 1: daw down almost one point two per cent, pretty flat
Speaker 1: on the nasdack and just down about seven tenths of
Speaker 1: one percent on the S and P. Of course, coming
Speaker 1: after one day where we saw a broad based rally
Speaker 1: that since talks significantly higher. So Mark, nice to have
Speaker 1: you here with Jason and myself. Um, you're in charge
Speaker 1: of setting your firm's view on macro economics as well
Speaker 1: as the equity market in the fixed income market, how
Speaker 1: do you see it right now? Well, good afternoon, Yes,
Speaker 1: thank you for having me on. Well, we've taken the
Speaker 1: position that it's certainly time to be parsimoniously allocated wrist
Speaker 1: based capitality equity markets, and by that we mean taking
Speaker 1: our constructive but cautious approach because what we've seen here
Speaker 1: is a pretty massive rally which uh including the news
Speaker 1: yesterday from Maderna is baking in and pulling forward a
Speaker 1: lot of hope and expectation that the accompanying economic recovery
Speaker 1: is going to represent the same v shape that we've
Speaker 1: seen out of equity prices, and of course the vaccine
Speaker 1: is clearly the game changer. But as we're finding out today,
Speaker 1: perhaps investors were a little bit premature and expecting that
Speaker 1: what we saw in terms of a somewhat preliminary release
Speaker 1: around the trial efficacy that was shown from the vaccine
Speaker 1: from Madourna may have a little more work to do
Speaker 1: to prove ultimately to be the solution that we need
Speaker 1: to be able to restore normal life in the U,
Speaker 1: asking for that matter, around the world. So eyes on vaccines,
Speaker 1: eyes on Capitol Hill, but also eyes on some big
Speaker 1: earnings this week mark, especially when we look at some
Speaker 1: of the retailers that that came out today, hump Depot
Speaker 1: and Walmart and Coles most notably. What did you read
Speaker 1: into that, any surprises or any indicators there that might
Speaker 1: give us a sense of what's going on in the
Speaker 1: real world. Again, I think it continues to be a
Speaker 1: function of the winners and the losers. I mean, one
Speaker 1: can generalize about the retailing space and say, well, it's
Speaker 1: not a place I want to invest capital, But in
Speaker 1: fact it's much more nuanced than that. You have the
Speaker 1: hyper markets if you will, like the walmarts and the
Speaker 1: cost goes and even the target that you would put
Speaker 1: in that category that have very effectively competed in this
Speaker 1: environment for consumer spending, particularly as it relates to general
Speaker 1: household items consumer staples, if you will. And also what's
Speaker 1: common among these franchises is the fact that they've been
Speaker 1: very good at adopting an e commerce initiative that escalated
Speaker 1: rather quickly some years ago, um. And it's not only
Speaker 1: helped them in times like this when we've been obviously
Speaker 1: shopping from our homes and and uh local you know,
Speaker 1: regional or or city specific locales, but in addition to that,
Speaker 1: compete very effectively against Amazon. Unfortunately, as some of the
Speaker 1: others that have been saddled with brick and mortar debt
Speaker 1: that have been obviously victimized by the low traffic in
Speaker 1: the malls and some of the script classes and so on,
Speaker 1: like the Coals and the J. C. Pennies, um, that
Speaker 1: are going to struggle. In the case of those that
Speaker 1: remain open and UH struggle to come back from bankruptcy
Speaker 1: that's been declared, like in the case of J. C. Penny. Hey,
Speaker 1: you know, Mark, I'm curious what you're hearing UM and
Speaker 1: even maybe internally within your company, how you guys, I mean,
Speaker 1: you're in a very senior position at your company. What
Speaker 1: you guys foresee will be your responsibility to some of
Speaker 1: the big problems that are being um really revealed during
Speaker 1: this crisis, not new problems, right, whether it's inequalities, whether
Speaker 1: it's people, you know J. Powell coming out and talking about,
Speaker 1: you know, the percentage of people making forty dollars a
Speaker 1: year who are out of work right now, just struggling
Speaker 1: to get by. Jamie Diamond coming out UH today saying
Speaker 1: it helps policy makes use the virus UH crisis as
Speaker 1: a wake up call to address some of those inequalities
Speaker 1: that are among Americans. What do you guys, What are
Speaker 1: the conversations you're having internally about the role of your
Speaker 1: firm going forward and also what you anticipate will be
Speaker 1: the priorities of companies going forward. Will it be just
Speaker 1: about existence and making sure shareholders are happy, or will
Speaker 1: people think about the broader good even at the expense
Speaker 1: of maybe earnings per share. Well, there's lots of impact there,
Speaker 1: and yet well I do hold a senior position. Much
Speaker 1: of that kind of discussion and policy is a little bit,
Speaker 1: a little bit away from my jurisdiction as the chief
Speaker 1: investment strategist. Having said that, I think a couple of
Speaker 1: things that we've seen, I think there's already been um
Speaker 1: if you will, not necessarily uh due to Jenny or
Speaker 1: or is going on in Jenny, but actually proceeded this
Speaker 1: and that's really a secular shift away from capitalism, if
Speaker 1: you will, in a sense of a wave from managing
Speaker 1: for only shareholder stakeholder value and really expanding that cohort
Speaker 1: to consider labor um much more strongly. And in fact,
Speaker 1: we've seen the world more capital by way of increasing
Speaker 1: in wages and so on, benefits and whatever job security
Speaker 1: being transferred to labor. Now, this is a phenomenon that's
Speaker 1: going to take many, many years to develop to catch
Speaker 1: up that look anything like we sawftware instance, back in
Speaker 1: the nineteen sixties. But nonetheless, at least directionally, this has
Speaker 1: been a secular change that's actually been underway now for
Speaker 1: some time. But I think also Jannythan is so unique
Speaker 1: position in that we're are privately held enterprise where a
Speaker 1: wholly owned subsidy area pen utual. And therefore, I think
Speaker 1: our firm's management team can think differently about the decisions
Speaker 1: that they're making that are not catering to quarter over
Speaker 1: quarter public scrutiny and earnings announcements, but rather that can
Speaker 1: which benefit the strategic initiative of the firm over an
Speaker 1: extended period of time, which includes diversity measures which we've
Speaker 1: adopted and undertaken quite aggressively, and the firm dominage to
Speaker 1: make sure that will providing the kind of access to
Speaker 1: individuals and and again cohorts UM of all various races,
Speaker 1: educational levels and income needs as a way to participate.
Speaker 1: And a really good story narrative around what Jennie Montgomery
Speaker 1: Scott has offered to UM is christ. But I think
Speaker 1: it's a goal forward. UM. You can see it by
Speaker 1: way of E s G. The Environmental, social and government
Speaker 1: in issues, which is a large and growing if you
Speaker 1: will franchise that gathering massive amounts of money from math
Speaker 1: and managers, and they're pressing on companies to adopt more fully. Right,
Speaker 1: all right, Gonna leave it on that note, Mark, appreciate
Speaker 1: your thoughts on that, Mark Lushini. He's chief investment strategist
Speaker 1: at Jennie Montgomery Scott joining us on the phone from Pittsburgh.
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Download
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