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Speaker 1: I was that person who was like, no, I have

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Speaker 1: to be with somebody who's black, because nobody can understand

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Speaker 1: me like a black man can understand me. And I

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Speaker 1: still believe that that's true in a lot of ways.

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Speaker 2: So that's what I had to have.

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Speaker 1: And I did that my entire all the way up

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Speaker 1: until I was in my thirties, and then right at

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Speaker 1: the beginning of my thirties, and then I was just

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Speaker 1: like when I came out of this five year relationship

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Speaker 1: where I just thought, this is it, this is over.

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Speaker 1: I'm spending the rest of my life with this person.

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Speaker 2: And then it didn't happen.

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Speaker 1: I thought, I am cutting myself out to so many people.

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Speaker 2: Someone who I might connect.

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Speaker 1: With spiritually, I might vibe with, might give me every

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Speaker 1: single thing I want, but they might not look the

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Speaker 1: way that I think they're supposed to.

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Speaker 2: To be with me.

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Speaker 3: Stay tuned, we'll get into my conversation with Rachel Lindsey

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Speaker 3: right after these quick ads.

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Speaker 4: Welcome to Reality with the King.

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Speaker 3: It's me Carlos King, the King of Reality TV and

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Speaker 3: one of the most sought after executive producers in reality television.

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Speaker 4: With over ten years of production experience.

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Speaker 3: I've executive produced top rated programs such as eight seasons

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Speaker 3: of the Real Housepots of Atlanta. Additionally, I have created

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Speaker 3: shows such as Netflix Is Stylling, Hollywood Owns number one

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Speaker 3: rated Love and Marriage Franchise, and TV one's Hollywood.

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Speaker 4: Divas, just to name a few.

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Speaker 3: Twice a week on Reality with the King, we'll sit

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Speaker 3: down with my friends across the entertainment industry, recap our

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Speaker 3: favorite reality shows and revisit unforgettable moments that we are

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Speaker 3: still talking and tweeting about. Hey, rain drops. So today's

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Speaker 3: guest on Reality with the King is the first black bachelorette,

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Speaker 3: the beautifully talented Rachel Lindsay. So let me tell you

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Speaker 3: all the story. Yes, I love Housewives, I love Loving Marriage,

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Speaker 3: Bell Collective, all the shows, right, But I'm low key

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Speaker 3: a big bachelor and bachelorette fan. So when Rachel Lindsay

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Speaker 3: was cast as the first black bachelorette, I of course

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Speaker 3: had to watch and support my good sister, right, But

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Speaker 3: over the course of the season, I low key tuned

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Speaker 3: out and I'm in two not because of Rachel. I

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Speaker 3: tuned out because it was hard for me to believe

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Speaker 3: that all of these men were the right one for her.

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Speaker 3: But I wanted to invite her on the podcast, not

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Speaker 3: only because she made history as the first black bachelorette,

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Speaker 3: but I also wanted to know about her experience being

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Speaker 3: the first black bachelorette. And what came out of this

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Speaker 3: conversation is so juicy. I had no idea that Rachel

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Speaker 3: received so many hate mail from the Bachelor nation, who

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Speaker 3: felt that she disrupted their favorite show. In addition to that,

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Speaker 3: Rachel and I have a deep conversation on black women

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Speaker 3: finding love and choosing outside of your race who to

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Speaker 3: love and when you do that, what does the black

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Speaker 3: audience say about you. Lastly, we talk about the microaggressions

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Speaker 3: she felt on set, not only by the cast but

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Speaker 3: also the producers, who baby this one is good. Without

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Speaker 3: further ado, here is my conversation with Rachel Lindsay being

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Speaker 3: the first black bachelorette. What was that experience like for you?

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Speaker 3: Because as a black man who is the king of

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Speaker 3: reality TV, I know all too well what being on

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Speaker 3: television is about what that feels like for reality stars. Obviously,

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Speaker 3: my shows are like ensemble casts. You get to hang

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Speaker 3: out with.

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Speaker 4: Your friends and cocktails and you know.

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Speaker 3: Throchete, whereas on the Bachelorette. You are at the epicenter,

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Speaker 3: it's your show with a seampul of hot guys. But

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Speaker 3: tell me about that experience and what it was like

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Speaker 3: being a black woman. You know, did you feel the

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Speaker 3: pressures to represent for our community?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's so weird. It was kind of an

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Speaker 1: ebbs and flow when it came to representation.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I always.

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Speaker 1: Feel it just because first I am black, I am

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Speaker 1: a woman, And that was my motivation for saying yes

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Speaker 1: to being the Bachelorette, because originally I was like, no,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to lose my career, my reputation is going

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Speaker 1: to be questioned. I just don't know if I want

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Speaker 1: to go through all of this again. But it was

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Speaker 1: someone telling me who had watched the show before, So

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Speaker 1: the show didn't mean to me what it meant to

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Speaker 1: so many people who'd been fans.

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Speaker 2: Of it for such a long time.

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Speaker 1: And I also think that helped me navigate it because

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Speaker 1: I didn't have the.

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Speaker 2: Same connection to the show like other people.

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Speaker 1: But it was someone who had seen it before, I mean,

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Speaker 1: who had been watching it for years. Say, my daughter

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Speaker 1: is so excited to see herself represented on the show,

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Speaker 1: because she knew I went far on The Bachelor from

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Speaker 1: the spoilers, and I said, you know what, that's the

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Speaker 1: type of person I want to do this show for.

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Speaker 1: Because I'm not a fan of it, but how many

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Speaker 1: other people are who are just waiting to see themselves

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Speaker 1: represented on this platform, on this show.

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Speaker 2: That was my sole purpose for doing it. I thought,

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Speaker 2: if I fell in love, I fall in love. It

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Speaker 2: is what it is.

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Speaker 1: That's the sense of responsibility I felt was to represent

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Speaker 1: myself well as a black woman. And that's all I

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Speaker 1: as I guess as big as I looked at it,

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Speaker 1: and then as it got closer and I saw the

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Speaker 1: reaction from people like, oh my gosh, it's the first

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Speaker 1: and it was everywhere, and my stylis said, hey, the

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Speaker 1: Hollywood reporter picked it up, and I said, what's the

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Speaker 1: Hollywood Reporter?

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Speaker 2: It let me know how green I was.

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Speaker 1: I'm serious, how green I was coming into this world

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Speaker 1: and I start to have a panic attack, And then

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Speaker 1: once I came through, I just realized, Okay, this is

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Speaker 1: bigger than you.

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Speaker 2: You're doing this for the culture.

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Speaker 1: And so I did feel that pressure, but I knew

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Speaker 1: that the type of black man that I have dated

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Speaker 1: before coming on the show would never come on the show.

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Speaker 4: What does that mean?

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Speaker 1: Sis, It's hard to it's hard to explain.

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Speaker 4: No explained to me. I date black man too, so

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Speaker 4: I get it.

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Speaker 3: So is it like, because you know, there's different types

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Speaker 3: of black men and don't read me, I'm gay dub,

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Speaker 3: but I know black man.

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Speaker 4: I am one.

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Speaker 3: So when you say that, is it a black man

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Speaker 3: who's a little.

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Speaker 4: Thuggush ruggish ball.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, because I always tell people there's two

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Speaker 3: types of black men. There's the Wayne Brady's and then

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Speaker 3: there's the little Waynes So which one do y'all want?

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Speaker 4: Sis?

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Speaker 1: If that is the spectrum the spectrum, then mine leans

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Speaker 1: a little bit more on the Wayne side.

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Speaker 4: So my way Brady or little Wayne.

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Speaker 2: Shoot, they are both Wayne little Wayne look away.

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Speaker 1: And I say that, and this is no shade to

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Speaker 1: the guys that the black men that were on my season.

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Speaker 2: But those guys would never come on a reality show.

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Speaker 1: They're very private and probably private for the wrong reasons.

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Speaker 1: They ain't trying to get caught up and have their

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Speaker 1: business out there, because if you read my book, you

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Speaker 1: know the loose the type of the man that I

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Speaker 1: was dating.

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Speaker 2: So that's more of what I mean.

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Speaker 1: I'm not taking away from anybody's blackness because I think

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Speaker 1: he can be interpreted that way. I'm specifically talking about

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Speaker 1: the type of men that I dated prior to coming

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Speaker 1: on the show. So I had reason with myself that

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Speaker 1: it is very possible that if you fall in love,

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Speaker 1: he may not be black.

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Speaker 2: I also had.

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Speaker 1: Reasoned that people are meeting me for the very first

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Speaker 1: time they met me on The Bachelor it was a

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Speaker 1: white guy whose season it was, then if I choose

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Speaker 1: somebody else who's not white, everyone's gonna be like system

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Speaker 1: like black men, which could.

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Speaker 2: Be the farthest thing from the truth.

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Speaker 1: That's the first time I had really dated somebody, and

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Speaker 1: I say that on the Bachelor, I never brought someone

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Speaker 1: home there wasn't black. So I had kind of gotten

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Speaker 1: that all out of my head, or I reasoned with

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Speaker 1: that in my head before I went on the season.

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Speaker 1: And then I was like, you know what only pressure

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Speaker 1: I feel is to make sure I'm representing my family right,

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Speaker 1: representing who I am as a black woman right, and

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Speaker 1: everybody else can miss me with the you should have

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Speaker 1: picked this person she don't like black man.

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Speaker 2: All of that. I'll deal with that on the back.

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Speaker 3: End later no, listen, you were so authentic on that show.

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Speaker 3: And what I loved about you being on that show

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Speaker 3: is you were so much of a breath of fresh air,

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Speaker 3: you know, like you were just you.

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Speaker 4: And again, as somebody who produces reality television, I know when.

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Speaker 3: Someone is playing up to the camera, and I thought

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Speaker 3: that you never did that. You were like, look, I'm Rachel,

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Speaker 3: I'm a little wacky, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 4: I'm a little serious, I'm funny.

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Speaker 3: You had all of these great sort of like attributes

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Speaker 3: that really told the fullness of who you were as

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Speaker 3: a woman. Thank you, and obviously you know you found

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Speaker 3: love of congratulations with that.

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Speaker 4: You guys are like still together.

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Speaker 1: Yes, we've been We've been together for five years, we've

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Speaker 1: been married for two and a half years. We live

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Speaker 1: in LA we just got a home together. Yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: we're this is this is the real thing. And who

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Speaker 1: would have known when I tell you, I had to

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Speaker 1: convince my parents that this was real, because even when

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Speaker 1: I left them, I was like, don't worry you guys,

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Speaker 1: this is this is for you know, us representation. So

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Speaker 1: they didn't understand that I really did fall in love.

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Speaker 1: They thought I was still playing a part. It wasn't

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Speaker 1: until after the.

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Speaker 2: Show was over.

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Speaker 1: We were completely done, and I was like, hey, I'm

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Speaker 1: taking Brian to Houston to meet the rest of the family.

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Speaker 1: And my Mom's like, oh, we're the camera's coming. I'm like, no,

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Speaker 1: we are in real life. Now, this is it. So

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Speaker 1: it really was a shock to my entire family and

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Speaker 1: they had to reason with no, like, we have to

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Speaker 1: trust Rachel. She really did fall in love. She is

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Speaker 1: truly engaged and we'll see, we'll see where it goes.

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Speaker 1: And they love Brian and they love we vacation together

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Speaker 1: as both of our families together all that, so it's

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Speaker 1: it's the real deal.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So let me ask you this, when it comes

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Speaker 3: to a blacklack woman, an educated black woman, you know

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Speaker 3: at that I've always been told that it's very hard

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Speaker 3: for a black woman to find love. And when people

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Speaker 3: look at black women in high positions, from Kamala Harris

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Speaker 3: to our new.

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Speaker 4: Supreme Court appointee.

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Speaker 3: Josh Brown, yes, Serena Williams, they have noticed that these

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Speaker 3: women are with white men.

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Speaker 4: What advice would you give.

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Speaker 3: The sisters, Because I'm going to say this on the record,

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Speaker 3: I have told my black female friends, you need to

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Speaker 3: date outside your race, because I think you're trying so

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Speaker 3: hard to make fetch happen that you need to expand

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Speaker 3: your horizon and listen, I'm all about black love too, child,

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Speaker 3: but listen, look at me and you and look at

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Speaker 3: the black community.

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Speaker 4: You know, we're all different colors and shades.

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Speaker 3: Obviously there's been some milk in people's magnesium, right, So

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Speaker 3: is it something to where you know when it comes

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Speaker 3: to black women dating, Like, do you feel like black

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Speaker 3: women should start opening their eyes to dating people outside

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Speaker 3: their race because you just never know?

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Speaker 1: Yes, Because that's my story and that's why in my book,

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Speaker 1: it was so important for me for people to see

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Speaker 1: my life plan at different stages because it was black

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Speaker 1: black black black, and I've taught.

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Speaker 2: I've been very vocal about this.

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Speaker 1: I was that person who was like, no, I have

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Speaker 1: to be with somebody who's black, because nobody can understand

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Speaker 1: me like a black man can understand me. And I

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Speaker 1: still believe that that's true in a lot of ways.

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Speaker 1: So that's what I had to have, and I did

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Speaker 1: that my entire all the way up until I was

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Speaker 1: in my thirties, and then right at the beginning of

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Speaker 1: my thirties, and then I was just like when I

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Speaker 1: came out of this five year relationship.

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Speaker 2: Where I just thought, this is it, this is over.

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Speaker 2: I'm spending the.

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Speaker 1: Rest of my life with this person. And then it

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Speaker 1: didn't happen. I thought, I am cutting myself out to

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Speaker 1: so many people. Someone who I might connect with spiritually,

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Speaker 1: I might vibe with, might give me every single thing

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Speaker 1: I want.

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Speaker 2: But they might not look the way that I think

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Speaker 2: they're supposed to be with me. I said, I'm just

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Speaker 2: gonna be free. I'm just gonna open myself up to whoever.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna connect with whoever.

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Speaker 1: And once I did that, that was like a really

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Speaker 1: freeing moment for me. I didn't I tore up the

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Speaker 1: list that I had.

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Speaker 2: I had a real list, tore it up and said, it's.

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Speaker 1: Just whoever I vibe with, and I'm just going to

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Speaker 1: go from there. And I encourage people to do that.

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Speaker 1: If you have a list, throw it away. If there's

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Speaker 1: certain there should be certain things that you're not going

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Speaker 1: to compromise on, hold on to those.

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Speaker 2: Those are your morals, those are your values.

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Speaker 1: But when it comes to some of the superficial stuff,

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Speaker 1: like I had to have a black man, I had

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Speaker 1: to have an omega man.

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Speaker 2: He had to be a certain type.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm Adelta shout out to Delta Signatator Sorority Branded.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I did. I want to.

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Speaker 1: I wanted all of that and then I just started

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Speaker 1: letting that go. And if I hadn't done that, I

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Speaker 1: never would have been ready for Brian, who is every

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Speaker 1: single thing that I would want in a man, but

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Speaker 1: the one thing that I thought I had to have

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Speaker 1: was him being black.

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Speaker 2: Brian's not.

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Speaker 1: And I'm more in love than I've ever been before.

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Speaker 1: So I would just tell people, don't just be open right,

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Speaker 1: don't neglect. I can't stand people who are like I

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Speaker 1: only date this, but be open to it.

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Speaker 2: You never know. You might be surprised. And I bet

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Speaker 2: if you asked.

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Speaker 1: Every single one of those women black women that you

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Speaker 1: name who are either married or dating someone outside of

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Speaker 1: their race, they were beautifully surprised.

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Speaker 2: They weren't expecting it.

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Speaker 3: Stay tuned for more of my conversation with Rachel.

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Speaker 4: We'll be right back. Have to be quick, ads.

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Speaker 3: This is reality with the King, and I'm Carlos King.

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Speaker 3: Let's get back into my conversation with Rachel. One thing

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Speaker 3: about you is you're so honest and That's why I

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Speaker 3: said earlier, your breath of fresh Air. So you have

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Speaker 3: a new book call miss Me with that yes, which

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Speaker 3: I love that title.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 3: And in the book you talk about you wanted to

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Speaker 3: get on the Bachelorette to make change, but the moment

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Speaker 3: you were there, you realize you were their token.

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Speaker 4: What did you mean by that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: So I really I knew why I was motivated to

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Speaker 1: say yes to be the.

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Speaker 2: Bachelorette, and I guess I.

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Speaker 1: Was naive and thinking that they wanted it solely for

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Speaker 1: that reason too, which was to represent in a way

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Speaker 1: or for people who hadn't seen someone who looks like

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Speaker 1: me in this role to know it's okay, you can

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Speaker 1: tell our love stories too.

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Speaker 2: We know how to find love.

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Speaker 1: Black women can be adored and appreciated, and hopefully it

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Speaker 1: paves the way for other people in them, not just black,

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Speaker 1: but in the bipod community to have their stories told.

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Speaker 1: It shouldn't stop with me.

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Speaker 2: I thought we were on that same page. As I started.

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Speaker 1: To navigate the journey and this whole Bachelor franchise, specifically

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Speaker 1: as the Bachelorette, I realized that I was just checking

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Speaker 1: something off their box.

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Speaker 2: I realized that.

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Speaker 1: They just wanted to say, hey, we did it. Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's go back to what's worked before. And that's shown

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Speaker 1: in the fact that I was the bachelrette in twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 1: It took three years, and that year that it did

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Speaker 1: change was twenty twenty. It took three years for them

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Speaker 1: to bring another person of color into that role at

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Speaker 1: that and it was the first time it was a

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Speaker 1: black man to be the bachelor, and twenty twenty, we

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Speaker 1: all know what happened. So that was just a response

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Speaker 1: to what was happening in society rather than them actually wanting.

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Speaker 2: To make change.

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Speaker 1: And so for me, it made me realize, Okay, they

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Speaker 1: want to be able to say they did it. They

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Speaker 1: also picked me because that audience could understand, Oh, we

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Speaker 1: can get why she's the first one. That's what I

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Speaker 1: also mean by token on paper, It's like she's an attorney,

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Speaker 1: her dad's a federal judge. She's done this, she's done that.

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Speaker 1: So it's like, Okay, we get her, we get why

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Speaker 1: you want her to be the first as if I'm

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Speaker 1: different or I'm an anomaly, when you had plenty of

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Speaker 1: black contestants that have come on the show.

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Speaker 2: And so that is what I mean by the token too.

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Speaker 1: It had to be the right person to come along,

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Speaker 1: because there have been plenty of qualified black contestants that can.

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Speaker 2: Do this role as the bachelor or bachelorette.

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Speaker 1: And when you compare it to the white counterparts that

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Speaker 1: had come before me, they weren't put through some rigorous tests.

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Speaker 1: They didn't have to check off certain boxes. Some of

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Speaker 1: them weren't employed, some of them were living at home,

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Speaker 1: so you know, but I had to be damn near

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Speaker 1: perfect to come along. I mean they have from what

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Speaker 1: I'm told. When I went to my audition, they already

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Speaker 1: had flagged me she could be the one because of

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Speaker 1: what I look like on paper.

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Speaker 3: No, what's interesting is my podcast first episode was with

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Speaker 3: Ebony K. Williams, who is the first black woman to

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Speaker 3: be on the Real Housewives of New York City. And

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Speaker 3: from your conversation with me, y'all stories parallel.

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Speaker 4: I don't know if you know her or watch the.

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Speaker 3: Show, it's very parallel in the sense of the type

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Speaker 3: of black women that are chosen to be the first.

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Speaker 3: You know, listen, there's a certain scan tone that I'm noticing,

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Speaker 3: there's a certain team, Like you said background, you know

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Speaker 3: what I mean, you talk about your father being a judge.

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Speaker 4: Ebony is an attorney. You know, she went to law school.

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Speaker 1: All.

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Speaker 3: What's also interesting is this sort of call to action saying, okay,

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Speaker 3: we did it, leave us alone. And that's something that

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Speaker 3: she and I talked about. And I'm noticing some parallels

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Speaker 3: with you and the Bachelor franchise, because again, I watched

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Speaker 3: the first season twenty years ago with Tristan Ryan. Like,

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Speaker 3: I've always been a fan of the show, and I

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Speaker 3: was eighteen years old at the time. Black people want love,

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Speaker 3: they desire love. So the fact that they thought twenty

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Speaker 3: years later, let's do it. But what was also interesting

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Speaker 3: is I was told.

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Speaker 4: And I want to know if you were also told this.

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Speaker 3: I was told that when you became the first black bachelorette,

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Speaker 3: they said, oh, the ratings are down, and see that's

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Speaker 3: why we don't do this.

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Speaker 1: Did you hear that too, Yeah, it was something along

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Speaker 1: the lines of my ratings were lower than the bachelorettes

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Speaker 1: before me, and it was now I will give credit

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Speaker 1: to the creator of the show, because the creator of

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Speaker 1: the show, said Mike Flie, he was quoted as saying,

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Speaker 1: Rachel's this, this, and this, She's all the things that

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Speaker 1: an ideal.

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Speaker 2: Bachelorette is supposed to be.

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Speaker 1: And it seems to me that our audience, in a

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Speaker 1: trumpish kind of way, didn't.

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Speaker 2: Want to watch her.

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Speaker 1: He said that as New York Times, New York Posts

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Speaker 1: something like that, So I.

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Speaker 2: Appreciated that he called out the audience. Now, again, the

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Speaker 2: show is a business, so you.

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Speaker 1: Might have called them out and in that notion, but

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Speaker 1: at the same time, you continue to give them what

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Speaker 1: they wanted because you got a business at the end

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Speaker 1: of the day. So they definitely would would say that.

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Speaker 1: I would hear rumblings of that of like, oh, your

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Speaker 1: season was lower, But then what they always forget to

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Speaker 1: say is so was the bachelorette right after me who

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Speaker 1: was white. Her ratings were lower than mine, And then

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Speaker 1: the next one's lower, and the next one, and the.

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Speaker 2: Next one in the next one.

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Speaker 1: So it's just kind of a sign of the times

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Speaker 1: when it comes to television more than it is just

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Speaker 1: for me being a black bachelorette.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and one of the things you read about in

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Speaker 3: your book that I want to talk about is the

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Speaker 3: microaggressions you've experienced. There's this scene with Vanessa from the show,

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Speaker 3: and you said something along the lines of As the

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Speaker 3: numbers dwindled, our issues became so obvious, the producer said,

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Speaker 3: you need to talk it out. They staged a scene.

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Speaker 3: I was sitting down pretending to read a book. Vanessa

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Speaker 3: came over and said, Hey, can I talk to you.

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Speaker 4: I look back and see how that setup made her

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Speaker 4: look like the bigger person.

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Speaker 3: The first thing she said to me was, I feel

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Speaker 3: like you bullied me in the house. Immediately, I felt

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Speaker 3: my blackness was on display. I knew the audience was

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Speaker 3: going to look at me as an angry black female.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so that I am a person who's like, if

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Speaker 1: I don't mess.

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Speaker 2: With you, I don't mess with you. And that's what

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Speaker 2: I mean.

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Speaker 1: As the numbers start to go down, it became very obvious.

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Speaker 1: You know, we started getting less and less women.

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Speaker 2: People were getting sent home.

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Speaker 1: It became obvious who messed with who on the show.

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Speaker 1: And I didn't have an issue with Vanessa. I just

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Speaker 1: saw her behavior in the house with certain things, and

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Speaker 1: I was like, I don't really want that energy. You're

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Speaker 1: not gonna be best friends with anyone.

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Speaker 2: It's fine. This was at the time.

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Speaker 1: We're totally cool now, and so I just didn't want

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Speaker 1: to be around her, but she.

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Speaker 2: Kept making it an issue.

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Speaker 1: I guess telling producers, you know, I want to talk

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Speaker 1: to Rachel.

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Speaker 2: Rachel doesn't like me. They were like, Rachel doesn't have

439
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Speaker 2: an issue with you.

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Speaker 1: She was also going and telling Nick that I was

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Speaker 1: ostracizing her in the household. So it's like she was

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Speaker 1: trying to eliminate her competition at that point, which happens

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Speaker 1: to people. The atmosphere doesn't necessarily always bring out the.

444
00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:54,800
Speaker 2: Best in people.

445
00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:59,639
Speaker 1: So it's funny, how you know, I say, in that moment,

446
00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:02,920
Speaker 1: I real that I knew. I always knew my blackness

447
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:05,600
Speaker 1: was on display, but it wasn't until later that I

448
00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:07,919
Speaker 1: was detached that I realized they made her look like

449
00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:10,119
Speaker 1: the bigger person because they came to me and they

450
00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:11,840
Speaker 1: were like, hey, we're going to have you Vanessa talk.

451
00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,359
Speaker 1: You know you read here, She'll come get you. But

452
00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:16,840
Speaker 1: it was later that I said, oh, she already looks

453
00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:21,040
Speaker 1: better because she is trying to fix whatever the situation is.

454
00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:23,280
Speaker 2: Where I was never given the opportunity to do that.

455
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:24,320
Speaker 2: But yes, she.

456
00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:28,000
Speaker 1: Immediately calls me a bully, and I just remember saying

457
00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:31,200
Speaker 1: how I asked her the question. That's a really strong

458
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:34,400
Speaker 1: word how am I a bully? She would give out

459
00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:36,199
Speaker 1: examples like you didn't look at me when we were

460
00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:37,800
Speaker 1: all in the circle talking, I mean.

461
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:38,840
Speaker 2: Like really silly like that.

462
00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:42,040
Speaker 1: And so I just gave her examples of things that

463
00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:44,359
Speaker 1: I had seen in the house, which is why we

464
00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:46,800
Speaker 1: weren't close, and I said, that's really my issue, it's

465
00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:49,879
Speaker 1: nothing personal. But she was crying, she was screaming, and

466
00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:51,800
Speaker 1: I remember sitting there and I was just kind of

467
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:55,879
Speaker 1: like I had to sit there and not react. And

468
00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:59,160
Speaker 1: when it was over, I was livid, and of course,

469
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:01,639
Speaker 1: like they're running behind me like cameras trying to get

470
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:03,159
Speaker 1: a reaction, and they're like, why don't you come in

471
00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:06,400
Speaker 1: an im and talk about it? And I was mad

472
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,560
Speaker 1: because and I remember saying, I am going to look

473
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:10,359
Speaker 1: so bad.

474
00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:11,679
Speaker 2: She called me a bully.

475
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:15,160
Speaker 1: You don't understand how triggering those words are and how

476
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:17,639
Speaker 1: that is going to affect me in front of this

477
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:19,399
Speaker 1: white audience is going to be watching me.

478
00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:21,480
Speaker 2: That's all they're going to see is that I'm a bully.

479
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:23,680
Speaker 1: Coming from her, She'll get the benefit of the doubt

480
00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:26,960
Speaker 1: and I won't. And I had just come off this

481
00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:30,120
Speaker 1: being at this kind of restaurant bar that doctor Martin

482
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:32,120
Speaker 1: Luther King Junior had been at so I was really

483
00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:35,040
Speaker 1: in my feelings of walking in the same places that

484
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:37,200
Speaker 1: he had been, and then I had to be subjected

485
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,119
Speaker 1: to this. So I was talking about all this in

486
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:42,560
Speaker 1: the ITM and then the producer basically said to me,

487
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:44,480
Speaker 1: we're not going to air it. And at the time,

488
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:47,679
Speaker 1: I thought, oh my gosh, they're really looking out for me.

489
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,879
Speaker 1: They really understand because he said, there's no way that

490
00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:53,240
Speaker 1: you're going to come off looking good, and I thought, wow,

491
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,600
Speaker 1: they get me Again. When you're removed from it, you

492
00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,600
Speaker 1: realize it's a little bit more to the story. It

493
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:01,639
Speaker 1: wasn't just that they were looking out for me. They

494
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:04,240
Speaker 1: were looking out for their next lead. There is no

495
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:07,359
Speaker 1: way an audience would accept me if that aired. I

496
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,199
Speaker 1: would be a bully, So why are you letting this

497
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:12,159
Speaker 1: bully become the next bachelorette. So it was more so

498
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:14,359
Speaker 1: them looking out and protecting who they were going to

499
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:16,639
Speaker 1: make as their first black lead than it was about

500
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,880
Speaker 1: truly caring how that audience viewed me. Because later on

501
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 1: during my finale, when I told Peter that I was

502
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:27,560
Speaker 1: living my best life, they had Chris Harrison come back

503
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,600
Speaker 1: after commercial and tell me, I seemed angry when I hadn't.

504
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:33,920
Speaker 2: Raised my voice or said a curse word or anything.

505
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:36,439
Speaker 1: And then they fed Peter the line of saying, well,

506
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 1: I feel like you attacked me. So they really did

507
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:41,000
Speaker 1: not care how I looked in front of an audience

508
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:43,880
Speaker 1: that was to protect their asset.

509
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,359
Speaker 2: I was their asset at that moment. So those are

510
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:49,560
Speaker 2: things that I realized as I detached.

511
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:52,000
Speaker 1: Myself from the franchise. There's always an ulterior motive. It's

512
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:56,400
Speaker 1: not really that they care for at least in my circumstances.

513
00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:00,840
Speaker 2: They didn't really care. They're motivated by protecting this franchise.

514
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:06,879
Speaker 3: No, no, listen, the Bachelor is a huge franchise. And

515
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:09,400
Speaker 3: not only is it huge, you know how Beyonce has

516
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:13,719
Speaker 3: her behive and Nicki Minaj has her barbs girl, that

517
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 3: Bachelor Nation the Bachelor behive is severe up in here, stangs.

518
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:26,359
Speaker 3: Did the Bachelor Nation support you or did they sting

519
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,399
Speaker 3: you in the comments like the Beehive does if you

520
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:31,480
Speaker 3: attack Beyonce yourself those cards.

521
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:32,680
Speaker 2: I'm actually surprised.

522
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:35,679
Speaker 1: I'm still not inflamed right now from all the stinging

523
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:37,280
Speaker 1: that I've received from bachlorination.

524
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, Now, granted, there's two sides to it.

525
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 1: I say, there's the clan, there's the Bachelor Clan, and

526
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:45,120
Speaker 1: then there's Bachelor Nation.

527
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:46,360
Speaker 4: Wait, clan with a.

528
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:49,399
Speaker 1: C ork with a K with a K, there's a

529
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:53,080
Speaker 1: Bachelor Klan with a K, and there's Bachelor Nation. And

530
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 1: I've received a lot of support for Bachlination. I mean,

531
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,919
Speaker 1: even having left it because it was just too toxic

532
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,439
Speaker 1: for me, a lot of people still support and I

533
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 1: appreciate that. And then there's a sector which is honestly

534
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 1: who I blame the franchise for empowering because they've constantly

535
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:12,879
Speaker 1: given them the product that they've wanted over the last

536
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,679
Speaker 1: twenty years, and now want to question why they have

537
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,480
Speaker 1: such a visceral response from certain sectors of their audience

538
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,680
Speaker 1: because you've created this, You've given them exactly what they wanted,

539
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 1: and now you're trying to change it up and you're

540
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 1: really seeing how toxic and really tragic certain areas of

541
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:33,480
Speaker 1: Bachelor Nation are. I mean, you can go on any

542
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,680
Speaker 1: day on a Facebook or something and see there are

543
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:41,120
Speaker 1: legitimate groups that hate me. They blame me for Chris

544
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:45,159
Speaker 1: Harrison's departure, they blame me for breaking up my former

545
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 1: co host's relationship with her fiance. They blame me for

546
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 1: not having grace and understanding when a former leads at

547
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 1: the N word, you know, like everything is my fault.

548
00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 1: I'm evil, I'm manipulative, I'm a It's just I'm never given.

549
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 1: And I really discussed this in my book. I talk

550
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 1: about how.

551
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:09,880
Speaker 2: I'm never given any kind of.

552
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,360
Speaker 1: Grace as to or understanding when it comes to a situation.

553
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 1: It must have been something Rachel did. It must be

554
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:21,359
Speaker 1: her fault. Oh that happened because Rachel did this. And

555
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 1: it's wild how the thinking and the logic is, or

556
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 1: I should say it's not really logic when it comes

557
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 1: to how fascination thinks.

558
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:33,359
Speaker 2: But I've just become accustomed to it at this point.

559
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 4: That is sad.

560
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,640
Speaker 3: And listen, I am a former Real Housewives producer.

561
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:43,919
Speaker 4: And one thing about the housewife fans. They are hard juddy.

562
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:45,440
Speaker 4: They're a hype in itself.

563
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:49,160
Speaker 3: And listen, I love my Housewives fans because they ride

564
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:50,199
Speaker 3: for me, they support me.

565
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:52,560
Speaker 4: I love the good ones. But there is a.

566
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:56,679
Speaker 3: Small fraction of housewife fans that makes it not fun

567
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 3: to talk about housewives or to wash the shell because

568
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 3: they take it so seriously. Yeah, it's and I kind

569
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:04,840
Speaker 3: of gathered that when it came to the Bachelor Nation

570
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 3: because it's like, guys, this is unscripted, like we're living

571
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:10,440
Speaker 3: our best life.

572
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:11,199
Speaker 4: At least we're trying to.

573
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 3: And we appreciate the fans, We appreciate the support, but damn,

574
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 3: I don't need a cross burning steak at.

575
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,680
Speaker 4: My front lawn because you don't like what.

576
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 3: I'm representing for this community because you haven't seen it yet.

577
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 3: And that's awful that you had to experience that. And

578
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm blown away. And I'm also blown away

579
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:36,160
Speaker 3: because the fact that they're blaming you for Chris Harrison's firing.

580
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 3: So to give my audience a backstory, because a lot

581
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,880
Speaker 3: of these guys are housewife fans and they're like Carlos

582
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:47,879
Speaker 3: was tsis so long story short. Chris Harrison was the

583
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:53,840
Speaker 3: Andy Cohen of The Bachelor, right, Chris Harrison was the

584
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 3: Andy Cohen.

585
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,160
Speaker 4: Yes, for The Bachelor and The Bachelorette.

586
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,400
Speaker 3: He was the host, he was the MC, he was

587
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,880
Speaker 3: the mister of Ceremony, if you will, And he made

588
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:07,159
Speaker 3: a comment when they brought up an issue of race

589
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 3: regarding the first black male bachelor named Matt James. There

590
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 3: was a woman on the show named Rachel, a white woman,

591
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,920
Speaker 3: and there was photos that were leaked on her at

592
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:19,440
Speaker 3: a party.

593
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, an ante bellum party.

594
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:26,400
Speaker 4: Wearing the costumes. And you know, listen, I'll have time

595
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,359
Speaker 4: to give out history lesson. Go read a book.

596
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:32,359
Speaker 3: But obviously there was Rachel undertones with that, and Chris

597
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,480
Speaker 3: Harrison made a comment. I'm not going to quote him

598
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 3: and I'm going to paraphrase it, but he made a

599
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 3: comment in regards to supporting Rachel and giving her pass

600
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 3: for what she was doing.

601
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 4: And you were outspoken about that.

602
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 3: And people are saying because Rachel, Lindsey was outspoken, meaning

603
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 3: giving her opinion on something that everybody in the world

604
00:28:56,360 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 3: was asked about her comment of saying how bad it

605
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 3: was that he did that to support Rachel. It made

606
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 3: him get fired from ABC.

607
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 2: Yeah.

608
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 1: And what's even more wild is I was doing it

609
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 1: in the confines of my job.

610
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 2: I was on the job.

611
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 1: It's my job description to ask relevant questions, and the

612
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 1: most relevant topic at that time were these photographs. Because

613
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 1: it was rumored that white Rachel was the front runner,

614
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 1: and so you have your first black Bachelor and the

615
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 1: rumored front runner is taking these old South ante Bellum parties,

616
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 1: dressed up like she's Scarlett O'Hara from Gone with the Win,

617
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 1: and so it just it was very jarring and it

618
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 1: was just very surprising.

619
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 2: So of course I asked.

620
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 1: Him, thinking he's going to give me the PC answer,

621
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 1: Seeing how he has been the host of this franchise

622
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 1: since its inception nineteen years he knows more about how

623
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 1: to give the PC answer and media training than anybody,

624
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 1: And so I asked a question and he just decided

625
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 1: he had time that day and instead he just went

626
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 1: off about why we should be giving her grace, that

627
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 1: what she's doing is just what one of fifty thousand

628
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 1: people do in the South and kids go to these

629
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 1: type of parties all the time, and is it a

630
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 1: problem now or was it not a problem in twenty eighteen,

631
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 1: you know, like that kind of thing. And my response was, well,

632
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 1: it's always been a problem. I mean, what would I

633
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 1: represent if I went to that party? If I go

634
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 1: to an old South party? You go to an old

635
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 1: South party, Carlos, who we dressing up?

636
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 2: Ass? Who were gonna roleplay ass?

637
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 1: So that was my point of why it's wrong and

638
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 1: what it represents, your glorifying a time where we were enslaved,

639
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 1: I mean, why are we celebrating this?

640
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 2: And his response was, well, who are.

641
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 1: You, Rachel to judge and he said that to me,

642
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 1: who are you? I mean, he said, who the hell

643
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 1: are you? Who is Rachel lindsay, I'm a black woman

644
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 1: who's offended by the very things that you're talking about,

645
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 1: And it was it was such a for your audience

646
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 1: who doesn't watch The Bachelor. The reason it was so

647
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 1: jarring is because if you ever watch Chris do anything,

648
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 1: he has no emotion.

649
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 2: He's very straightforward.

650
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 1: He presents things as they should, He does not give

651
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 1: his opinion. This was the first time people were seeing

652
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 1: him loose, seeing him loosing the reins and just really

653
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 1: let himself go. And everyone was like, oh wow, that

654
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 1: is the real Chris Harrison. And he was defending things

655
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 1: that were so obviously offensive. And what made it worse

656
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 1: is he was yelling at me as a black woman

657
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 1: rather than listening to me, saying hey, I'm offended, all

658
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 1: while calling me his friend.

659
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 2: But you weren't trying to hear what your friend had

660
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 2: to say.

661
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 1: So it was a really big moment that caught a

662
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 1: lot of people off guard. And the reason it took

663
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 1: on an even bigger life of its own. Is because

664
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 1: then other contestants of color started saying that they supported

665
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 1: me and they condemned what he did, and then the

666
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 1: show came out and said they were suspending him, and

667
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 1: then they eventually let him go, even after he publicly

668
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 1: apologized on Good Morning America.

669
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 2: So it just turned out to be this whole thing.

670
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 1: But somehow me asking one question was manipulating him to

671
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 1: go on a fifteen minute.

672
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 4: Rant, Oh I'm sorry.

673
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 3: My question exposed how a man really feels about this

674
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 3: particular topic. And you guys are mad at me and

675
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 3: not mad at the person whose words came out of

676
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 3: his own mouth, unedited, And he's not to blame for this.

677
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 4: That's crazy, But.

678
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 2: Isn't it crazy how life works?

679
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,480
Speaker 1: If if he was going to go off like that,

680
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 1: it wouldn't have had the same impact unless he decided

681
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 1: to go off like that in front of the first

682
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 1: black bachelorette. How wild is that that that's the interview

683
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 1: that he decided to let luc in.

684
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 2: It's such a full circle moment.

685
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 1: You know, when he sat on that stage four years

686
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 1: before that and told me I was angry and I

687
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 1: seemed upset when really, I had the same energy that

688
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 1: I gave four years ago. I had to given that

689
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 1: interview where I had to show no emotion that I

690
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 1: was calm, cool and collected. Meanwhile, he can rant and

691
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 1: raise and do whatever it is that he wants to,

692
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 1: but somehow to a.

693
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 2: Huge sector of Bachelor Nation. That's my fault. That was

694
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 2: my fault. I made him talk like that. I tricked him.

695
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 2: This is what people say. I tricked him into that.

696
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 3: No, you're so powerful that everything is your fault, Darling.

697
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 3: Every bad theme that has ever happened on that show

698
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 3: is Rachel Lindsay's fault.

699
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 2: I'm a witch.

700
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 3: What advice would you give other black women who want

701
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 3: to appear on that show?

702
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 2: Ooh, listen, I mean I'm fair.

703
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 1: So I will say that there have been changes made since.

704
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 1: You know, things really have blown up since twenty twenty,

705
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 1: after I did the show, or after I was the

706
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 1: Bachelorette for three years, we saw nothing, and I was

707
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 1: very vocal about diversity and inclusion.

708
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 2: When their hand was forced, they started to do that.

709
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:14,480
Speaker 1: They named Matt James, they hire a diversity consultant. They

710
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 1: thereafter they have Taysha, then they have Michelle. You see

711
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:21,280
Speaker 1: more contestants of color coming on because you're having content

712
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:24,799
Speaker 1: leads that are actually interested in dating multiple people in

713
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 1: the bipod community.

714
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 2: So they have now.

715
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 1: Hired an executive producer for the first time.

716
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 2: It's black.

717
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 1: It's a black woman, So she's on the post side,

718
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:38,439
Speaker 1: not necessarily inside making decisions a swamp posts.

719
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:41,720
Speaker 3: And post is where all the magic happens. And editing,

720
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 3: it's a whole different department that stays in the office

721
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 3: in this case now they stay at home child, but

722
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:52,359
Speaker 3: they edit and put this show together. So when you

723
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:55,759
Speaker 3: were on The Bachelorette, was there any black people, well

724
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 3: black producers or high level black producers who were work

725
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:01,760
Speaker 3: working on the show in the field.

726
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:04,760
Speaker 1: So to go back, when I was on The Bachelor,

727
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,880
Speaker 1: there was not one black producer, not in casting that

728
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:09,400
Speaker 1: I saw. If they were, I didn't see it, not

729
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,880
Speaker 1: in casting, not in the field. So the people who

730
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,759
Speaker 1: would have been in the house with us and the

731
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 1: one who's the executive producer, Now there were a couple

732
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 1: of posts, but as you just described, that's posts, so

733
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 1: they're not with us when we're making decisions, when we're

734
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 1: trying to figure out how to navigate it. And that

735
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 1: was One of the things that I talked about is

736
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 1: people of color aren't going to go far if they

737
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:33,360
Speaker 1: don't trust who they're telling their story to. If someone

738
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 1: can't ask the right questions to get them to open up.

739
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 1: Who can show some level of understanding and some empathy

740
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 1: because they've experienced what they're going through, they understand how

741
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 1: they feel.

742
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 2: In this environment.

743
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,400
Speaker 1: I didn't have that now because I've grown up in

744
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 1: a lot of p like I went to pwi's my

745
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 1: entire life. You know, I've been the only black at

746
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 1: my law firm, a couple of my law firms. I

747
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:56,920
Speaker 1: understand the dynamics, so I can get through it, but

748
00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:00,160
Speaker 1: most people can't. And you know, most people just get

749
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 1: uncomfortable with it. You're already thrown into such a weird situation.

750
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 1: So when I was the bachelorette, they brought in filled producers.

751
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:11,799
Speaker 2: That were black. They brought in three.

752
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 1: Because it was going to be the most diverse cast ever,

753
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 1: so they wanted people of color mixed in with this

754
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 1: diverse cast. On my side as the lead, you know,

755
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:24,279
Speaker 1: you've got a couple of producers with you. Again, I

756
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 1: was by myself. There was no one of color, so

757
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:28,799
Speaker 1: that was even more difficult for me now that I'm

758
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 1: making decisions. And race was a huge factor in my

759
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 1: season if you haven't watched it, because they casted a

760
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 1: racist on my season and he was causing a lot

761
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 1: of drama in the house that I wasn't privy to

762
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 1: be to know and with me was a completely different person.

763
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 2: So I didn't find all that out till after my

764
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 2: season was over.

765
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 1: So back to what you were saying about producers and stuff,

766
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 1: they now have what I'm talking about. What they've done, well,

767
00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 1: they have an executive producer, but she's on. There's no

768
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:04,719
Speaker 1: executive producer in the field. There's no producer there. There's

769
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 1: one guy unless they've hired more in the field, and

770
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 1: so they need to do a better job of that

771
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:12,840
Speaker 1: so people can feel more comfortable.

772
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:14,360
Speaker 2: But they're taking those steps.

773
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 1: So you know, I would just say, if you want

774
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 1: to go on one of these shows, read my book

775
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:21,800
Speaker 1: so you can.

776
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 2: And that's not a plug.

777
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,239
Speaker 3: The book is called miss Me with That. Yes I'll

778
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 3: plug a honey, read her book miss Me with That.

779
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 4: Goheas this, but.

780
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 1: More so to understand my experience. It'll be different because

781
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 1: I was the first. But then I would listen to

782
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 1: other voices out there. Listen to Ebanie k Williams she

783
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 1: had I'm a big Housewives fan. I'll watch every single franchise,

784
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 1: so I was very excited for Ebanie to join. And

785
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:48,319
Speaker 1: I saw from the outside what Ebanie went through, and

786
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 1: I have had some conversations with her and I know

787
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 1: she went through so much more than that.

788
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:53,719
Speaker 2: So I would listen to those people just so you

789
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:54,680
Speaker 2: can be prepared.

790
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 1: You can have your antenna's up, and you can stay

791
00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:00,439
Speaker 1: alert because it's very easy when everything is take away

792
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 1: from you in that world. Because that world's different from Housewives.

793
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:06,280
Speaker 1: You have no phone, you have no TV, no internet.

794
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:10,319
Speaker 1: Everything that's familiar to you is taken from you. So

795
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:12,440
Speaker 1: all you can trust is your gut. So if you

796
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 1: can equip yourself with as much knowledge as possible before

797
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:17,960
Speaker 1: you head in there, then you'll be fine and you'll

798
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 1: survive it.

799
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 4: Wow.

800
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:22,319
Speaker 3: I mean, this is the reason why I'm happy that

801
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,560
Speaker 3: my career has taken this spind of being in front

802
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 3: of the camera, because I want more black people to

803
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:32,719
Speaker 3: know that there needs to be more producers to work

804
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 3: on these shows.

805
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 4: And for me is.

806
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:38,399
Speaker 3: To get these executives whose job is to hire producers.

807
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 3: You gotta hire people who a not only reflect the talent, yeah,

808
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:44,840
Speaker 3: but be who also have a skill set to do

809
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:45,360
Speaker 3: the job.

810
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 4: Because I was a black.

811
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 3: Producer working on Atlanta Housewives, du made sense. But I

812
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 3: was also a black producer working on New Jersey Housewives,

813
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:56,400
Speaker 3: and it had nothing to do with my race in

814
00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:58,799
Speaker 3: terms of my connection with the Jersey Housewives. It was

815
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:01,920
Speaker 3: my talent, but it's because someone gave me, gave me

816
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:05,359
Speaker 3: the opportunity. My biggest thing, which is why I'm glad

817
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 3: I started my production company, is because I want to

818
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:12,320
Speaker 3: implore more people of color to get these high level

819
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:15,920
Speaker 3: positions because one thing I always tell people, when you're

820
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:17,799
Speaker 3: working on a black show, I don't care if it's

821
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:21,840
Speaker 3: a dating show or docuseries like a Housewives of Atlanta.

822
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:26,719
Speaker 3: You need producers who reflect how the cast look because

823
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:30,800
Speaker 3: there's a certain language that we have, there's a certain

824
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 3: look that we can give each other, and it makes

825
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:38,279
Speaker 3: everybody's jobs easier. And that's why when I was talking

826
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:41,319
Speaker 3: to Ebden k Williams about her experience on New York

827
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:44,919
Speaker 3: City Housewives, that's when it hit me, like, you don't

828
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 3: have any black producers to work with either, And that

829
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:49,960
Speaker 3: said a lot about her experience.

830
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 1: It's tough, but it can be worth it, which is

831
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:56,839
Speaker 1: why I don't want to tell.

832
00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm a living.

833
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:00,239
Speaker 1: Testimony that it can be. I don't I want to

834
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 1: discourage you from it.

835
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 2: Just be prepared. I wasn't prepared in a lot of ways.

836
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 3: Well, look, you were prepared to find love, honey, you

837
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:11,239
Speaker 3: found it. So before we end, what's the latest with

838
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 3: you and Brian? Are we trying to have baby babies?

839
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 1: Like?

840
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 3: What is it that you want out of your life

841
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 3: right now? When it comes to you and Brian?

842
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:24,640
Speaker 1: So I it's so funny because a lot of people

843
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 1: will look on social media and they're like.

844
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:29,720
Speaker 2: You never post Brian? Are y'all still together?

845
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 1: Oh?

846
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:31,360
Speaker 2: There must be troubling paradise.

847
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:33,879
Speaker 1: What I will say about Brian and I is we

848
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 1: were so public obviously and how we met, and everyone

849
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:39,319
Speaker 1: had an opinion on our relationship, and it was tough

850
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 1: for us when we came off the show because people

851
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:43,399
Speaker 1: were mad. They were mad at me, they were mad

852
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:46,719
Speaker 1: that I chose Brian and not Peter. So initially we

853
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,759
Speaker 1: pulled back from everything and said, you know what, We're

854
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:51,600
Speaker 1: going to get to know each other in real life

855
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 1: and protect ourselves with our family, our friends, people who

856
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 1: get us. And that's kind of carried on through our relationships.

857
00:40:57,600 --> 00:40:59,920
Speaker 1: So we do a really bad job of letting people in.

858
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,680
Speaker 1: But we are so good. We just got a house

859
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 1: in La We're very excited about that.

860
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:07,720
Speaker 2: And we do want to grow our family.

861
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 1: I am a person I'm very guilty of putting work first,

862
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 1: work work, work, work, work all the time, and I'm

863
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:15,800
Speaker 1: really trying to be proactive because I'm ready.

864
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:17,120
Speaker 2: I have such baby fever. I swear.

865
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:18,759
Speaker 1: I was on a plane the other day and there's

866
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:20,279
Speaker 1: a baby next to me and I stared at the

867
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:22,279
Speaker 1: baby the whole time and I had to apologize.

868
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:23,960
Speaker 2: I apologized to the mom.

869
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:26,399
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm not I'm just like really having

870
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:29,799
Speaker 1: baby fever right now. So yeah, I've just been so

871
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 1: busy i haven't had to focus on it. But we're

872
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 1: trying to focus on it right now. Like I'm actually

873
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 1: talking to some doctors and getting some referrals on some things.

874
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:39,720
Speaker 3: Well, when you come back on my podcast, I would

875
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:50,320
Speaker 3: throw you a gender revealed party. Oh yes, a few parties,

876
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:53,319
Speaker 3: so so trust me, I would do that for you

877
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:56,880
Speaker 3: because you know, again, I feel like you represent a

878
00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 3: lot of black women who just said, you know what,

879
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 3: let me take this chance.

880
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:03,240
Speaker 4: And I'm such.

881
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 3: A proponent for people to just take a chance because

882
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 3: you never know what life has to offer for you. Yeah,

883
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 3: and you're the perfect example of that.

884
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,000
Speaker 2: Hek you. Thank you, so, Rachel?

885
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 4: Where can people find you? Follow you? Where can they

886
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:19,800
Speaker 4: buy the book? All those things?

887
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:21,160
Speaker 2: Okay, here you go, guys.

888
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 1: You can catch me six out of seven days a

889
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:25,759
Speaker 1: week on Extra check your local listings. You can catch

890
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:28,799
Speaker 1: me on Higher Learning. Podcasts with Van Lathen comes out.

891
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:32,080
Speaker 1: New episodes drop Tuesdays and Fridays. We talk about everything

892
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:36,720
Speaker 1: that intersects with black culture, from current affairs, politics, sports, entertainment,

893
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 1: all that good stuff.

894
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:40,320
Speaker 2: You can catch my weekly blog on Meta.

895
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 1: I write once a week about anything lifelove, career, all that,

896
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:46,400
Speaker 1: and I do an ask rage segment and then you

897
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 1: can follow me on social at the Rach Lindsay And yeah,

898
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:51,320
Speaker 1: that's everything.

899
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 3: The beauty of my conversation with Rachel is the fact

900
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 3: that it was nice to highlight the pressures that she

901
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:07,319
Speaker 3: felt being the first black bachelorette and also what that

902
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:12,120
Speaker 3: meant for her, her family, her sanity, in addition to

903
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:15,839
Speaker 3: her legacy. So to see that she did find love

904
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 3: is amazing. But what was the gag of the gagg

905
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:21,279
Speaker 3: gag gay gags is? I had no idea since was

906
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:25,960
Speaker 3: into the thugs, Rightchel, I.

907
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 4: Didn't notice this. I love it though, I feel you girl, but.

908
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:32,319
Speaker 3: No all jokes aside. I really hope you guys pick

909
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:34,799
Speaker 3: up a copy of her book in addition to the

910
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:37,839
Speaker 3: fact that continue to support her as she is a

911
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:42,000
Speaker 3: correspondent on Extra and I really do love her. She

912
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:45,439
Speaker 3: is such a good girl, such a funny woman, and

913
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 3: now she's a rain drop.

914
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:49,439
Speaker 4: Let's go Rachel.

915
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 3: Thoughts opinions. Read about my conversation with Rachel. Email me

916
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:03,239
Speaker 3: every Reality with the King at stitcher dot com or

917
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:06,960
Speaker 3: leave me a voicemail at three one zero five nine

918
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:09,200
Speaker 3: three eight one eight eight.

919
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:13,560
Speaker 4: Thank you for listening to Reality with the King.

920
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 3: New episodes drop every Wednesday and Friday, Share, comment, follow

921
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 3: and subscribe to Reality with the King Wherever you get

922
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:27,399
Speaker 3: your podcasts, visit realitywthe King dot com and be sure

923
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 3: to follow me at the Carlos King Underscore on Instagram

924
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 3: and Twitter. Reality with the King is a production of

925
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:39,719
Speaker 3: More Sauce by Stitcher. It is executive produced by me

926
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 3: Carlos King and Jasmine Henley Brown. We are also produced

927
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 3: by Sierra Spradley, Rix engineering and music by Marcus ham

928
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:54,800
Speaker 3: More Sauce