WEBVTT - Captain Marvel with Carolyn Cocca 0:00:00.880 --> 0:00:03.800 On the Bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have 0:00:04.000 --> 0:00:07.880 women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, 0:00:07.920 --> 0:00:12.320 or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef and best 0:00:12.720 --> 0:00:16.400 start changing it with the beck Del Cast. Hello, and 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:18.760 welcome to the Beachdel Cast. My name is Caitlin Arante 0:00:18.880 --> 0:00:21.840 and my name is Jamie Loftus, and our podcast is 0:00:21.920 --> 0:00:25.800 about the representation of women in movies. Women. Ever heard 0:00:25.840 --> 0:00:29.080 of them? Movies? Ever heard of them? No? Neither. My 0:00:29.200 --> 0:00:33.000 new playing intro thought of all the way here, I 0:00:33.080 --> 0:00:35.960 have two degrees in film, but somehow I've never heard 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:40.159 of movies. Listen, I know I've I also went through 0:00:40.520 --> 0:00:43.519 the school, and they just don't tell you about it. 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:46.240 If they don't, I'm excited for today's episode. It's another 0:00:46.720 --> 0:00:51.720 hashtag current movie, not our normal fair but this seemed 0:00:52.000 --> 0:00:56.840 very warranted. Yes, this is important important. The show is 0:00:57.560 --> 0:01:00.960 Oh yeah, derived from hard to Know? Really the part 0:01:01.080 --> 0:01:04.800 who are we point? Oh wait, no, she's not the 0:01:04.880 --> 0:01:08.600 next Man. I don't know how superhero movies work. It's 0:01:08.600 --> 0:01:12.840 almost like she's a mutant. That's not this franchise. No, no, no, 0:01:12.880 --> 0:01:14.840 you know, I'm just gonna go bury myself a lot 0:01:16.520 --> 0:01:20.120 any who, So we use the Bactel test as a 0:01:20.200 --> 0:01:24.520 jumping off point, and the Bactel test for us our version, 0:01:24.920 --> 0:01:30.000 there must be two female identifying characters with names. They 0:01:30.080 --> 0:01:34.360 must speak to each other, and their conversation cannot be 0:01:34.400 --> 0:01:37.080 about men. And this is just a two line exchange 0:01:37.200 --> 0:01:39.560 for us. It's all it takes. All it takes. But 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:42.720 a lot of movies managed to fuck it up, and 0:01:42.800 --> 0:01:46.040 a lot of movies in the universe were addressing today 0:01:46.319 --> 0:01:48.680 managed to suck it up. So it'll be interesting to 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:53.680 dive in. And the movie, of course, if you've clicked, 0:01:53.840 --> 0:01:56.240 if you've dared to click, you already know the movie 0:01:56.320 --> 0:01:59.680 is Captain Marvel. Yes, if you are listening to this 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:02.320 and you have not yet seen the movie, we are 0:02:02.360 --> 0:02:05.320 going to do a lot of spoilers, so um, just 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:09.760 be aware of that and also see the movie. The movie, 0:02:10.240 --> 0:02:13.880 Come on, seriously, I mean the box off. If the 0:02:13.919 --> 0:02:17.520 box office is to be judged, they don't necessarily need you, 0:02:18.080 --> 0:02:20.720 but you should see it. This movie made so much money. 0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:25.120 That's great, already made dollars? Wow? Well yeah, well with 0:02:25.200 --> 0:02:28.560 how much further ado? Let's introduce our guest today. Yes, um, 0:02:28.600 --> 0:02:32.760 she is the author of Superwomen, gender power, and representation. 0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:37.000 She also wrote the forward for the Captain Marvel issue 0:02:37.040 --> 0:02:40.720 of Entertainment Weekly, which is on shelves right now. It's 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:45.760 Caroline Cocao. Hi, thanks for being here. Oh, thanks so 0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:48.040 much for having me. It's crazy to be here. Time. 0:02:48.200 --> 0:02:51.600 We're so we're so psyched to have a true expert 0:02:52.360 --> 0:02:57.080 on the cast. So I guess before we get into it, 0:02:57.880 --> 0:03:01.640 all of our experiences with this movie, we are relatively recent. 0:03:02.480 --> 0:03:05.160 Um in general, Caroline, how do you? How do you 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:07.639 like the movie? Oh? I was going to tell you 0:03:07.760 --> 0:03:11.079 my long five day history with the movie. Please let's 0:03:11.160 --> 0:03:14.240 unpack it. No, no, no, I'm kidding. Uh No. I 0:03:14.240 --> 0:03:16.440 I did like it, and I think it's kind of 0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:19.120 like when I went to go see A Wonder Woman. 0:03:19.280 --> 0:03:23.160 I was more worried than anything else going in and 0:03:23.720 --> 0:03:27.839 kind of relieved even though neither is perfect coming out. 0:03:28.160 --> 0:03:31.040 So I'll just leave it at that for now. What's 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:34.639 your history with the property? Um? In terms of the 0:03:34.680 --> 0:03:37.360 comics and stuff? Are you super familiar? Have you read 0:03:37.360 --> 0:03:41.360 a lot of them? I didn't until I guess about 0:03:41.360 --> 0:03:46.119 five years ago. So I didn't read Captain Marvel growing up. 0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:48.120 I mean I did read some comics when I was 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:51.480 a kid, they were mostly d C comics like Superman, Batman, 0:03:51.600 --> 0:03:55.720 Wonder Woman. My history with Captain Marvel is pretty recent 0:03:55.880 --> 0:03:59.120 from writing my book, and it was while I was 0:03:59.160 --> 0:04:03.280 writing it that the character was sort of relaunched as 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:07.520 Captain Marvel. She had formerly been Miss Marvel from you know, 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:12.200 for like forty years before that and at this and 0:04:12.240 --> 0:04:15.320 you know, at the time they thought, well, okay, it's 0:04:15.320 --> 0:04:18.159 a longer story. But at the time, it was everybody 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:20.799 working in comics except for like one woman at Marvel 0:04:20.839 --> 0:04:23.719 and one woman at TC. They were all guys. And 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:26.520 these guys, I think, genuinely thought that they were creating 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:29.960 a feminist character and that's why they they purposely used 0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:33.840 the moniker miss Um And you know, they had her 0:04:34.320 --> 0:04:37.120 first she was a security chief at NASA. That's how 0:04:37.160 --> 0:04:40.719 she's introduced, and then later she's the editor of Woman magazine. 0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:47.440 That is the vaguest vagary I've ever heard. She's a feminist. 0:04:47.480 --> 0:04:52.479 She's magazine, that's right. I mean the first issue of 0:04:52.560 --> 0:04:56.160 Miss Marvel, she's fighting um, you know, mean spider Man. 0:04:56.360 --> 0:05:00.320 Editor j Jonah Jamison owns Women magazine. She's she's fighting 0:05:00.400 --> 0:05:03.120 on the Bay and he wants to underpay her, and 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:05.240 she's like, no, you want me, You're gonna pay me 0:05:05.279 --> 0:05:08.039 this much. And he's like, okay, grumble, grumble, cigar jump, 0:05:09.720 --> 0:05:14.159 I want to read that issue. And then he's like, 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:17.680 so you're gonna do uh some recipes and some fashion 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:21.560 none of that, like women should be astronauts stuff, right, 0:05:21.560 --> 0:05:23.520 women should be in the kitchen and she's like, uh, 0:05:25.000 --> 0:05:30.159 feminist icon. J Jonah Jamison really an ally to all that. 0:05:30.400 --> 0:05:35.360 J Jonah Jamison, Um wow, okay, I'm like, yeah, I'm 0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:38.080 really excited to hear more about the character as well, 0:05:38.160 --> 0:05:44.240 because I am not super familiar with the mcu as 0:05:44.760 --> 0:05:48.359 by the fact that I called one of the X 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:52.360 Men but you, but you inadvertently said something accurate because 0:05:52.400 --> 0:05:54.560 there was a point at which she almost joined the 0:05:54.680 --> 0:05:56.360 X Men in the eighties. So we'll just pretend you 0:05:56.400 --> 0:05:59.320 knew that. Actually I have a really deep knowledge and 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:03.520 so alas that is a cut, that's me. I want 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:07.000 to hear about that too. I um my history aside 0:06:07.040 --> 0:06:12.240 from seeing the movie twice now, bragg is, I admittedly 0:06:12.440 --> 0:06:17.480 did not know that Captain Marvel was a character or 0:06:17.520 --> 0:06:20.480 a comic book until I saw the trailer for this movie, 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:24.960 which we can kind of later on unpack how you know, 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:29.320 a lot of the superheroes who are women don't really 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:34.080 make it to the mainstream or like the most popular properties. 0:06:34.200 --> 0:06:36.240 But yeah, we can we can talk about that a 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:39.920 little for sure later. Um I gen'er. I mean, I 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:43.880 enjoyed the movie. It was there's definitely stuff that I 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:47.640 think is worth discussing. I wasn't my favorite movie ever, No, 0:06:48.080 --> 0:06:51.200 but it was one of those movies that, like, for 0:06:51.360 --> 0:06:54.440 the little things I was jotting down in the screening, 0:06:54.720 --> 0:06:57.159 I was sitting two seats away from like kids, and 0:06:57.200 --> 0:07:00.560 they were so excited, Oh, that's great, So like in 0:07:00.600 --> 0:07:02.839 that way, you're just I'm like, almost crimes, just like 0:07:03.040 --> 0:07:05.000 in that way, I think that that it's great. And 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:08.160 there was like a lot of young boys and girls 0:07:08.240 --> 0:07:11.520 at movie and they were all site and it's like, yes, 0:07:11.680 --> 0:07:14.880 I have my critiques, but in general, I think it 0:07:15.000 --> 0:07:17.520 is a good movie to have in the world. And 0:07:17.520 --> 0:07:22.040 I have kids seeing agree. Yes. I also I'm like, 0:07:22.400 --> 0:07:25.800 I thought it was good. It was fine. It wasn't great. 0:07:26.400 --> 0:07:29.200 Now that I've seen Spider Man into the Spider Verse 0:07:29.720 --> 0:07:34.640 six times, I just feel a little underwhelmed by every 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:39.840 other superhero metric good but no, there's there's a lot 0:07:39.880 --> 0:07:42.320 of talk to compare women to men as much as possible. 0:07:44.400 --> 0:07:50.360 That um anyway, shall we do the recap? Sure? Okay, 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:55.200 so we meet Veers. That's Bree Larson's character. I stand 0:07:55.240 --> 0:07:58.520 Bree Larson. Yes, I love Bree Larson. Big fan, big stand. 0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:04.000 She lives on planet Halla with the Cree people. Sure 0:08:04.240 --> 0:08:06.920 she has a power, she like energy comes out of 0:08:06.920 --> 0:08:12.200 her fists. She fights Ju Law and she's stronger than him. 0:08:12.440 --> 0:08:15.160 And she doesn't have any memory of her past from 0:08:15.240 --> 0:08:19.120 before she arrived on Cree and Caroline. Does this line up? 0:08:19.360 --> 0:08:22.000 I guess before we super get into it. Does this 0:08:22.080 --> 0:08:24.960 line up pretty closely with what her origin story is 0:08:25.000 --> 0:08:28.520 in the comic books as well? Or was where liberties taken? 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:32.920 This is one of the times when liberties are taken 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:35.200 in a way that actually makes the story a little better. 0:08:36.880 --> 0:08:40.000 So I'm not sure where to start, because, like her 0:08:40.120 --> 0:08:43.400 origin in comics is kind of what you don't get 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:45.960 till about three quarters of the way through the movie. 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:47.560 So do you want me to say it now or 0:08:47.840 --> 0:08:49.480 when you get there? I guess we could say it 0:08:49.480 --> 0:08:51.360 when we get there. I just wasn't sure if if 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:54.800 this was like a complete deviation or pretty she did. 0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:58.840 She did not live on Cree. She just grew up human. 0:08:59.400 --> 0:09:03.160 And when she was that NASA security chief, one of 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:06.440 the people who was working there was a man named 0:09:06.559 --> 0:09:11.559 Walter Lawson who was Marvel. In other words, Marvel was 0:09:11.600 --> 0:09:15.840 a dude, and Marvel was the first Captain Marvel, and 0:09:15.880 --> 0:09:18.720 he was Cree and he did kind of turn against 0:09:18.800 --> 0:09:21.920 the Cree when he was on Earth, and uh, he 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:27.000 was fighting yon Rog. Jon Rog took Carol hostage. And 0:09:27.400 --> 0:09:29.840 in this struggle where Marvel is trying to rescue Carol 0:09:30.040 --> 0:09:33.280 from yon Rog, this machine blows up and this machine 0:09:33.520 --> 0:09:40.040 abuse Carol with her powers and with Marvel's Cree DNA. Okay, 0:09:40.160 --> 0:09:43.000 I like, I was, like, it's ridiculous. So much more 0:09:44.000 --> 0:09:45.600 I know, but so you can see that what they 0:09:45.679 --> 0:09:49.520 did in the movie is an improvement on that. Totally agree. Yes, okay, yes, 0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:54.120 indeed cool? Um Okay. So she's hanging out on Cree. 0:09:54.480 --> 0:10:00.400 There's this supreme intelligence that she goes to see for therapy. 0:10:00.440 --> 0:10:04.360 I don't know what they do, it's like so I 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:06.599 was just like, okay, So there's a green screen in 0:10:06.679 --> 0:10:09.080 play every time that scene would come. It's like Brie 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:14.280 Larsen on a green screen. And for Viers, this supreme 0:10:14.320 --> 0:10:19.280 intelligence takes the form of a Net Benning. But Viers 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:21.920 doesn't know who this woman is to her. She doesn't 0:10:21.920 --> 0:10:24.120 know her significance in her life because she can't remember 0:10:24.160 --> 0:10:28.880 her past. So Viers accompany's Yon Rog that's Jude Law's 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:32.880 character and some other creased soldiers on a rescue mission 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:36.080 on a different planet and they're trying to rescue someone 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:41.079 from these bad guys called Scrolls, who are shape shifters, 0:10:41.840 --> 0:10:46.120 and the Scrolls capture Veers and they are trying to 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:49.240 access her memories, and we see all these flashbacks of 0:10:49.920 --> 0:10:52.360 Viers training in the Air Force and hanging out with 0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:55.040 a net Benning, and they're trying to figure out who 0:10:55.360 --> 0:10:59.320 a net Benning's character is because they're trying to find 0:10:59.360 --> 0:11:03.040 her and get their hands on light speed technology that 0:11:03.120 --> 0:11:05.960 she was developing. Right, turns out her name is when 0:11:06.080 --> 0:11:10.800 Wendy Lawson right, So Veers gets away from the Scrolls 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:16.559 and crash lands on c. Fifty three. A k ever 0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:20.760 heard of it so much? I mean, some studio executive 0:11:20.800 --> 0:11:24.679 took the nostalgia note to heart and they're like, she 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:30.480 lands in a blockbuster. She's holding up a VHS day 0:11:31.160 --> 0:11:33.959 You're just like, alright, I guess we'll get through this. 0:11:34.280 --> 0:11:43.080 It's when she and a few of the Scrolls follow 0:11:43.160 --> 0:11:46.720 her to Earth and then the Agents of Shields show up, 0:11:46.880 --> 0:11:51.760 including Coulson, who we all know and love, and Nick Fiery, 0:11:51.840 --> 0:11:53.880 who we all know and love. I thought it was 0:11:53.880 --> 0:11:56.640 going to be so distracting to see young of fied 0:11:56.960 --> 0:12:00.880 Samuel L. Jackson, but they did a great job. I 0:12:00.960 --> 0:12:02.800 was just like, wow, he looks great. And then it 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:06.320 was like, no, that was that was technology. I was like, oh, okay. 0:12:08.920 --> 0:12:13.439 So Viers is like, hey, Fury, here's what's going on. 0:12:13.720 --> 0:12:17.560 There's these scrull bad guys, their shape shifters, and then 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:21.839 they don't believe her. She makes no effort to blend 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:24.959 in with her surroundings. There's moments where Captain Marvel is 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:26.439 great at her job and other times and I'm like, 0:12:26.559 --> 0:12:29.319 I don't know what you think you're doing, but you 0:12:29.360 --> 0:12:33.600 should probably anyways, I'm not who am I to tell 0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:35.319 her how to do her job? Yeah? Who are you? 0:12:35.640 --> 0:12:40.000 I don't know. Okay. So then there's this chase scene 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:45.240 and Fury sees this shape shifting happening, and he's like, oh, 0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:49.960 now I believe her. So then she and Fury team 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:53.240 up and they try to find Wendy Lawson and then 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:57.360 go to Pegasus, which I believe is like a secret 0:12:57.559 --> 0:13:02.079 military facility. Um, and they're in the records room and 0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:05.360 they discover that Wendy Lawson is dead, that she died 0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:08.319 in a plane crash that killed another pilot as well. 0:13:08.920 --> 0:13:12.400 I wonder who that might be. She's in the background 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:17.640 of a lot of pictures. They discovered the Wendy Lawson 0:13:18.040 --> 0:13:22.120 was Cree and then Yeah, sees a photo of herself 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:27.400 with Lawson from I think like nine and she's like, 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:30.640 oh my god. There's more to this story than I realize. 0:13:31.880 --> 0:13:34.760 Also very important to note there is what appears to 0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:41.120 be a cat named Goose. Yes, how many nipples does 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:43.480 the cat have? Okay, well, as we know cats have 0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:48.000 eight nipples, that's cat facts with Caitlin obviously, Um, but Goose, 0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:52.439 there's more to Goose than meets the eye. Goose is 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:59.000 not a cat. Goose is a flirkin. Flirkins have five 0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:04.599 D and third seven nipples. That's flirkin facts. Is that 0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:07.559 true with Caitlin? No, I just made that is that, 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:13.200 but it's cannon now okay. I was like, WHOA, Well, 0:14:13.320 --> 0:14:17.640 let me google right now, how many doesn't how florins 0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:21.080 does the nipple have? Does that mean we get to 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:24.160 give out five thirty seven at the end? Yeah? Oh yeah, 0:14:24.240 --> 0:14:26.480 the scale has been adjusted for the sake of the 0:14:26.560 --> 0:14:32.280 flirkin nipples? Okay, So how many nipples does a I 0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:35.840 don't quite know how to spell flirkin f l E 0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:38.600 r k E n okay E n okay I have 0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:44.000 k I n okay So florkin welp. It says eight nipples, 0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:46.960 but it's this is giving me facts about cats and 0:14:47.080 --> 0:14:52.640 not flirkins, so unbelievable, so I can't trust this. Um yeah, 0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:54.760 so let's go with what I said, eight hundred and 0:14:55.520 --> 0:15:00.400 thirty seven or whatever I said. Seven okay is the 0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:02.280 new scale that will be using on the show from 0:15:02.320 --> 0:15:06.880 here on out. It sounds okay. So then um Furies 0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:11.760 boss shows up at Pegasus, but it's actually a scroll 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:16.400 who's in disguise. So Fury and Veers make a run 0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:20.280 for it and they go to Maria Rambo because they're like, oh, 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:23.080 there's here's this woman who had given this testimony about 0:15:23.240 --> 0:15:27.600 this plane crash, so like she can. Maybe. It turns 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:30.920 out they were BFFs in the Air Force together, and 0:15:31.760 --> 0:15:37.800 Veers is actually named Carol Danvers. Oh my god, one 0:15:37.840 --> 0:15:40.120 thing I knew going into the movie. I didn't I 0:15:40.200 --> 0:15:44.440 didn't even know that. And Carol learns that she had 0:15:44.480 --> 0:15:49.640 this whole life on Earth pre pree times. She has 0:15:49.880 --> 0:15:53.720 a child that falls into one of the most annoying 0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:57.000 tropes in the world, to be child who is wise 0:15:57.080 --> 0:16:01.400 beyond their years, really precocious child, the wise be their 0:16:01.440 --> 0:16:05.000 years child, so cute. She's very cute, and her name 0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:12.040 is Monica. So Taylos, the main scroll guy, shows up 0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:15.280 at Marie, Yes, got it, shows up at Marie's house 0:16:15.720 --> 0:16:19.200 and he's like, hey, fun fact um Scrolls aren't the 0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:21.760 bad guys. It's the cree who are the bad guys. 0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:25.000 And everyone's like what. So we see a flashback of 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:29.080 the plane crash and we see Carol Denver's and Lawson. 0:16:29.160 --> 0:16:32.360 They're in the plane together. There's a spaceship that's shooting 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:35.400 at them. It's Creed. There's the Creed. They're the bad guys. 0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:39.720 They're shooting the career after them because they also want 0:16:39.880 --> 0:16:43.560 Lawson's light speed technology. Uh. And we learned here that 0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:48.600 Lawson is actually named Marvel. Then we learned that it 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:54.120 was Jude laws character whose name I always forget, Jon 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:59.840 rog Um who killed Lawson. So in this flashback, Carol 0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:03.720 Invers needs to destroy the plane's engine before the Crea 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:06.760 can get to it. So when she does that, it 0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:10.240 explodes and she absorbs all of its powers, which is 0:17:10.320 --> 0:17:15.480 how she has like energy fists um. And it turns 0:17:15.480 --> 0:17:18.920 out that Marvel a k. Lawson was trying to help 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:21.680 the Scrolls who are refugees and they're on the run 0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:24.720 from the cree and there they wanted the light speed 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:27.720 technology to be able to escape and like get out 0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:30.760 of the reaches of like cre rule. So now Carol 0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:34.760 Danver's fury and Maria and Taylo's need to go to 0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:38.840 Lawson's laboratory somewhere in space to get the energy core 0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:41.320 for the Scrolls. And then they get there and they 0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:43.120 find it and they're like, oh, by the way, it's 0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:48.399 called a test irect. I learned that in geometry. I 0:17:48.560 --> 0:17:51.040 was so excited. I was like, Mrs Foley, you'd be 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:56.840 so proud. Which which Marvel movie do we first learn 0:17:56.920 --> 0:18:01.200 about the test direct? Yeah? Yeah, Okay, Yeah, it's a 0:18:01.640 --> 0:18:04.679 running thing through the Marvel movies. Yeah, I just couldn't 0:18:04.680 --> 0:18:07.480 remember which. I guess it's a bigger plot point in 0:18:07.520 --> 0:18:10.520 the first Avengers movie, right, Okay, okay, that's what I 0:18:10.600 --> 0:18:12.800 thought it. And they keep it in a in a 0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:20.520 retro lunchbox, the funds of reference, the property, sure, and 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:25.520 then this space laboratory, Taylos's family is there and there's 0:18:25.600 --> 0:18:29.560 like this nice little reunion and then Yon rog and 0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:33.360 the other Creed show up rock Jude Law Jude Law, Yes, 0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:38.480 and there's a big fight and Carol Danver's fully realizes 0:18:38.560 --> 0:18:43.240 her powers because she takes off her inhibitor chip, basically 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:48.040 a metaphor for something. Now, I know this is all 0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:50.760 very subtle stuff going on, and I was like, wait, 0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:53.880 when she removes the chip, what is that exactly implying? 0:18:54.119 --> 0:18:57.000 I will say I did tear up during that very 0:18:57.080 --> 0:18:59.640 heavy handed montage of fall Down, Get Up, fall Down, 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:01.639 and get Me. I was like, I was like, I 0:19:01.800 --> 0:19:05.080 don't want to be crying, but here we are crying, 0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:07.840 and so was everyone else. Well, remember who else has 0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:17.200 an inhibitor chip. Jamie go On is doc where where 0:19:17.320 --> 0:19:23.960 was where was his montage? Alfred his montage. I would 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:25.800 just like to say at this point that as much 0:19:25.880 --> 0:19:28.800 as I thought Ben Mendelssohn was excellent, I couldn't help 0:19:28.880 --> 0:19:32.000 thinking to myself, Alfred Moleena would have made a great Taylor. 0:19:32.240 --> 0:19:36.560 So that was my VICTI I totally agree he would have. 0:19:36.760 --> 0:19:39.240 He would have been terrific. They gotta welcome him back 0:19:39.320 --> 0:19:43.800 into the m c U. Yeah, whereas he's if he's 0:19:43.840 --> 0:19:47.320 hanging out with us, he should be back in the 0:19:47.440 --> 0:19:51.399 m c you agree. During the fight, you know, Carol 0:19:51.520 --> 0:19:55.800 is getting more powerful, and then she defeats the Cree 0:19:56.520 --> 0:20:00.239 and at the end she gives fury a you an 0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:06.639 improved beeper which we see in Avengers Infinity War, and 0:20:06.720 --> 0:20:11.040 then she goes off with the scrolls. And that is 0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:17.320 pretty much the story, except for the after credits scenes, 0:20:17.520 --> 0:20:21.160 which I didn't understand. Oh sure, I don't watch the movie. 0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:24.880 So the after credit scene for all the Chrisms are back, 0:20:25.320 --> 0:20:30.680 chris Is are there. It's too much to explain, But fine, 0:20:30.760 --> 0:20:35.680 we're going to do an Avengers episode. I, against all odds, 0:20:35.840 --> 0:20:38.240 I will end up knowing what these movies mean at 0:20:38.320 --> 0:20:43.840 some point. I can't wait for you to do that. Sure, yeah, 0:20:43.880 --> 0:20:46.880 it'll be great. Um, well, let's take a quick break 0:20:46.960 --> 0:20:49.480 and then we will come right back to discuss the movie. 0:20:54.760 --> 0:21:01.280 So Caroline initial thoughts as an expert on this topic 0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:06.600 of superheroes who are women? How did this movie strike you? 0:21:07.160 --> 0:21:11.160 What are your feelings about it? Well, in my research, 0:21:11.320 --> 0:21:13.600 I do like what my book basically is is like 0:21:13.960 --> 0:21:17.560 a history of female superheroes over the last seventy five 0:21:17.640 --> 0:21:21.240 years in comics and novels and TV and movies, and 0:21:21.400 --> 0:21:24.520 when you look across that big sweep, you basically find 0:21:24.680 --> 0:21:28.960 that they're underrepresented stereo. I know, it's hard to believe, 0:21:29.000 --> 0:21:35.720 hold on to your hat. Sways, they're wildly underrepresented. They're stereotyped, 0:21:35.760 --> 0:21:39.920 and they're sexualized, and they're generally like side characters. Yes, 0:21:40.000 --> 0:21:42.880 there are exceptions to that, but I'm talking like literally 0:21:43.880 --> 0:21:48.000 of the time, that is what they are. So the 0:21:48.200 --> 0:21:51.440 way that Captain Marvel Carol Davers is portrayed in this 0:21:51.600 --> 0:21:55.840 movie is women are none of these things. So that's 0:21:55.920 --> 0:21:59.440 like a big win right there. Yeah, for sure. So 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:02.880 umber one, it centers a woman. Number two, she's wearing 0:22:02.920 --> 0:22:08.320 actual clothes and so are the other women, including flat shoes. 0:22:09.240 --> 0:22:14.040 She's got women around her who are inspiring her. There's 0:22:14.160 --> 0:22:20.639 no heatero romance happening, know that like side tracks her plot, 0:22:21.119 --> 0:22:24.720 and it's about a woman who has grown up a 0:22:24.800 --> 0:22:28.520 woman and has had experiences that women have coming into 0:22:28.600 --> 0:22:31.639 her own powers. So I think all of those things 0:22:32.400 --> 0:22:36.399 make it unfortunately, very very different from most Hollywood movies. 0:22:36.680 --> 0:22:38.960 I mean, just the previews that were before this movie 0:22:39.640 --> 0:22:44.520 was like pinful there. One of them was, um, Charlie's 0:22:44.560 --> 0:22:46.920 there owne is running for president or something. Oh and 0:22:47.080 --> 0:22:51.760 like starts dating Seth Rogan. God, what sort of cosmic 0:22:51.920 --> 0:22:56.399 punishment landed Charlie's there on in this movie. I just 0:22:56.960 --> 0:23:00.960 my heart goes out to whatever sinister tea all. But 0:23:01.080 --> 0:23:03.720 that was just the perfect example of it's like they're 0:23:04.200 --> 0:23:07.600 ostensibly making her this strong character, but really the whole 0:23:07.640 --> 0:23:11.040 movie is about her and she loveby Seth Rogan taking 0:23:11.080 --> 0:23:13.800 her to a bar and doing shots, and you know, 0:23:13.920 --> 0:23:16.359 it's just why, why any times is that going to 0:23:16.440 --> 0:23:20.240 happen in a movie where a perfectly good female character 0:23:20.840 --> 0:23:24.560 is just as her life absolutely ruined and derailed by 0:23:24.800 --> 0:23:30.040 a Seth Rogan character by Seth specifically, it's practically a 0:23:30.200 --> 0:23:37.560 sub genre. It's like anyways, Yes, so this movie, unlike 0:23:37.960 --> 0:23:44.560 nearly every single superhero movie to date does mostly the 0:23:44.640 --> 0:23:47.360 opposite of everything that those movies do. Yeah, I mean, 0:23:47.400 --> 0:23:50.840 and the and the lack of a romantic subplot is 0:23:51.119 --> 0:23:57.399 huge that never happens, right, are very usually romantic subplots 0:23:57.480 --> 0:24:02.880 in male driven movies as well with underwritten female characters. 0:24:03.840 --> 0:24:06.480 I mean, if they're going to rescue them, yes, right, right, 0:24:06.960 --> 0:24:10.399 and and you truly don't miss it, like there's no 0:24:10.840 --> 0:24:12.960 there's no room for it. There's a lot going on 0:24:13.080 --> 0:24:18.280 in this movie. She's she's busy. Yeah. In more recent comics, 0:24:18.600 --> 0:24:21.480 she has kind of an on and off relationship with Rhadi, 0:24:21.840 --> 0:24:26.040 who you saw in the post credit sequence. Okay, right, 0:24:26.119 --> 0:24:28.680 right right? You know, maybe they'll give a glance to 0:24:28.800 --> 0:24:31.280 each other in the Avengers movie or something. I don't know. 0:24:31.640 --> 0:24:34.960 That's a rather glaring age difference, but they couldn't have known. 0:24:36.000 --> 0:24:38.280 I'm like, I'm pretty sure Don Cheeta could be Bree 0:24:38.359 --> 0:24:43.800 Larson's father, But who am? I just touching on that 0:24:43.880 --> 0:24:47.720 a little bit more from what I remember of because 0:24:47.760 --> 0:24:50.760 I think I've seen, not to brag, I believe I've 0:24:50.760 --> 0:24:55.720 seen every single m c U movie to date. I 0:24:55.720 --> 0:24:57.960 wouldn't call myself an expert I'm not super because I've 0:24:58.000 --> 0:25:00.760 only seen each of them probably once, maybe twice at 0:25:00.760 --> 0:25:04.200 the most. Um, with the exception of Spider Man into 0:25:04.240 --> 0:25:06.399 the Spider Verse, which I did see five times in 0:25:06.960 --> 0:25:09.520 theata's um. But it doesn't feel like it's not a 0:25:09.560 --> 0:25:11.679 part of the m C you like, I don't. I mean, 0:25:11.760 --> 0:25:16.240 maybe they'll bring animated Miles Morales into Avengers end Game, 0:25:16.320 --> 0:25:19.440 but I don't think so. But they should. But yeah, 0:25:19.480 --> 0:25:23.360 I think most of them, because they're all they've all 0:25:23.480 --> 0:25:28.760 centered around male superheroes until Captain Marvel, I would say 0:25:28.840 --> 0:25:31.760 most of them do have a romantic subplot. Yeah, but 0:25:32.000 --> 0:25:34.879 that just means that there's like a woman in the story, 0:25:35.240 --> 0:25:38.000 but she's only there to further characterize them in and 0:25:38.080 --> 0:25:41.719 to be the romantic interests. So right, yeah, I mean 0:25:42.000 --> 0:25:45.200 it's just to contextualize the movie a little bit. I 0:25:45.200 --> 0:25:47.920 think it's like worth discussing a little bit what the 0:25:48.520 --> 0:25:52.280 climate in case you're listening to this episode many years 0:25:52.400 --> 0:25:54.920 from now, which people will do, which this is just 0:25:55.119 --> 0:26:00.280 gonna go on forever. But um, the reception, I feel 0:26:00.320 --> 0:26:04.160 like it's almost standard fair for uh, woman being introduced 0:26:04.280 --> 0:26:07.879 into a large property or like we can you know, 0:26:08.040 --> 0:26:12.440