1
00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:03,800
Speaker 1: On the Bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have

2
00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:07,880
Speaker 1: women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,

3
00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:12,320
Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef and best

4
00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:16,400
Speaker 1: start changing it with the beck Del Cast. Hello, and

5
00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:18,760
Speaker 1: welcome to the Beachdel Cast. My name is Caitlin Arante

6
00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:21,840
Speaker 1: and my name is Jamie Loftus, and our podcast is

7
00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:25,800
Speaker 1: about the representation of women in movies. Women. Ever heard

8
00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:29,080
Speaker 1: of them? Movies? Ever heard of them? No? Neither. My

9
00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:33,000
Speaker 1: new playing intro thought of all the way here, I

10
00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:35,960
Speaker 1: have two degrees in film, but somehow I've never heard

11
00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:40,159
Speaker 1: of movies. Listen, I know I've I also went through

12
00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:43,519
Speaker 1: the school, and they just don't tell you about it.

13
00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:46,240
Speaker 1: If they don't, I'm excited for today's episode. It's another

14
00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:51,720
Speaker 1: hashtag current movie, not our normal fair but this seemed

15
00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:56,840
Speaker 1: very warranted. Yes, this is important important. The show is

16
00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:00,960
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, derived from hard to Know? Really the part

17
00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:04,800
Speaker 1: who are we point? Oh wait, no, she's not the

18
00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:08,600
Speaker 1: next Man. I don't know how superhero movies work. It's

19
00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:12,840
Speaker 1: almost like she's a mutant. That's not this franchise. No, no, no,

20
00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:14,840
Speaker 1: you know, I'm just gonna go bury myself a lot

21
00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:20,120
Speaker 1: any who, So we use the Bactel test as a

22
00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:24,520
Speaker 1: jumping off point, and the Bactel test for us our version,

23
00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:30,000
Speaker 1: there must be two female identifying characters with names. They

24
00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:34,360
Speaker 1: must speak to each other, and their conversation cannot be

25
00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:37,080
Speaker 1: about men. And this is just a two line exchange

26
00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:39,560
Speaker 1: for us. It's all it takes. All it takes. But

27
00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:42,720
Speaker 1: a lot of movies managed to fuck it up, and

28
00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:46,040
Speaker 1: a lot of movies in the universe were addressing today

29
00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:48,680
Speaker 1: managed to suck it up. So it'll be interesting to

30
00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:53,680
Speaker 1: dive in. And the movie, of course, if you've clicked,

31
00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:56,240
Speaker 1: if you've dared to click, you already know the movie

32
00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:59,680
Speaker 1: is Captain Marvel. Yes, if you are listening to this

33
00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:02,320
Speaker 1: and you have not yet seen the movie, we are

34
00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:05,320
Speaker 1: going to do a lot of spoilers, so um, just

35
00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:09,760
Speaker 1: be aware of that and also see the movie. The movie,

36
00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:13,880
Speaker 1: Come on, seriously, I mean the box off. If the

37
00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:17,520
Speaker 1: box office is to be judged, they don't necessarily need you,

38
00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:20,720
Speaker 1: but you should see it. This movie made so much money.

39
00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:25,120
Speaker 1: That's great, already made dollars? Wow? Well yeah, well with

40
00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:28,560
Speaker 1: how much further ado? Let's introduce our guest today. Yes, um,

41
00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:32,760
Speaker 1: she is the author of Superwomen, gender power, and representation.

42
00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:37,000
Speaker 1: She also wrote the forward for the Captain Marvel issue

43
00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:40,720
Speaker 1: of Entertainment Weekly, which is on shelves right now. It's

44
00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:45,760
Speaker 1: Caroline Cocao. Hi, thanks for being here. Oh, thanks so

45
00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:48,040
Speaker 1: much for having me. It's crazy to be here. Time.

46
00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:51,600
Speaker 1: We're so we're so psyched to have a true expert

47
00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:57,080
Speaker 1: on the cast. So I guess before we get into it,

48
00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:01,640
Speaker 1: all of our experiences with this movie, we are relatively recent.

49
00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:05,160
Speaker 1: Um in general, Caroline, how do you? How do you

50
00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:07,639
Speaker 1: like the movie? Oh? I was going to tell you

51
00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:11,079
Speaker 1: my long five day history with the movie. Please let's

52
00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:14,240
Speaker 1: unpack it. No, no, no, I'm kidding. Uh No. I

53
00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:16,440
Speaker 1: I did like it, and I think it's kind of

54
00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:19,120
Speaker 1: like when I went to go see A Wonder Woman.

55
00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:23,160
Speaker 1: I was more worried than anything else going in and

56
00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:27,839
Speaker 1: kind of relieved even though neither is perfect coming out.

57
00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:31,040
Speaker 1: So I'll just leave it at that for now. What's

58
00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:34,639
Speaker 1: your history with the property? Um? In terms of the

59
00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:37,360
Speaker 1: comics and stuff? Are you super familiar? Have you read

60
00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:41,360
Speaker 1: a lot of them? I didn't until I guess about

61
00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:46,119
Speaker 1: five years ago. So I didn't read Captain Marvel growing up.

62
00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:48,120
Speaker 1: I mean I did read some comics when I was

63
00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:51,480
Speaker 1: a kid, they were mostly d C comics like Superman, Batman,

64
00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:55,720
Speaker 1: Wonder Woman. My history with Captain Marvel is pretty recent

65
00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:59,120
Speaker 1: from writing my book, and it was while I was

66
00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:03,280
Speaker 1: writing it that the character was sort of relaunched as

67
00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:07,520
Speaker 1: Captain Marvel. She had formerly been Miss Marvel from you know,

68
00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:12,200
Speaker 1: for like forty years before that and at this and

69
00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:15,320
Speaker 1: you know, at the time they thought, well, okay, it's

70
00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:18,159
Speaker 1: a longer story. But at the time, it was everybody

71
00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:20,799
Speaker 1: working in comics except for like one woman at Marvel

72
00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:23,719
Speaker 1: and one woman at TC. They were all guys. And

73
00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:26,520
Speaker 1: these guys, I think, genuinely thought that they were creating

74
00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:29,960
Speaker 1: a feminist character and that's why they they purposely used

75
00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:33,840
Speaker 1: the moniker miss Um And you know, they had her

76
00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:37,120
Speaker 1: first she was a security chief at NASA. That's how

77
00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:40,719
Speaker 1: she's introduced, and then later she's the editor of Woman magazine.

78
00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:47,440
Speaker 1: That is the vaguest vagary I've ever heard. She's a feminist.

79
00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:52,479
Speaker 1: She's magazine, that's right. I mean the first issue of

80
00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:56,160
Speaker 1: Miss Marvel, she's fighting um, you know, mean spider Man.

81
00:04:56,360 --> 00:05:00,320
Speaker 1: Editor j Jonah Jamison owns Women magazine. She's she's fighting

82
00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:03,120
Speaker 1: on the Bay and he wants to underpay her, and

83
00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:05,240
Speaker 1: she's like, no, you want me, You're gonna pay me

84
00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:08,039
Speaker 1: this much. And he's like, okay, grumble, grumble, cigar jump,

85
00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:14,159
Speaker 1: I want to read that issue. And then he's like,

86
00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:17,680
Speaker 1: so you're gonna do uh some recipes and some fashion

87
00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:21,560
Speaker 1: none of that, like women should be astronauts stuff, right,

88
00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:23,520
Speaker 1: women should be in the kitchen and she's like, uh,

89
00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:30,159
Speaker 1: feminist icon. J Jonah Jamison really an ally to all that.

90
00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:35,360
Speaker 1: J Jonah Jamison, Um wow, okay, I'm like, yeah, I'm

91
00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:38,080
Speaker 1: really excited to hear more about the character as well,

92
00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:44,240
Speaker 1: because I am not super familiar with the mcu as

93
00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:48,359
Speaker 1: by the fact that I called one of the X

94
00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:52,360
Speaker 1: Men but you, but you inadvertently said something accurate because

95
00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:54,560
Speaker 1: there was a point at which she almost joined the

96
00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:56,360
Speaker 1: X Men in the eighties. So we'll just pretend you

97
00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:59,320
Speaker 1: knew that. Actually I have a really deep knowledge and

98
00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:03,520
Speaker 1: so alas that is a cut, that's me. I want

99
00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:07,000
Speaker 1: to hear about that too. I um my history aside

100
00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:12,240
Speaker 1: from seeing the movie twice now, bragg is, I admittedly

101
00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:17,480
Speaker 1: did not know that Captain Marvel was a character or

102
00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:20,480
Speaker 1: a comic book until I saw the trailer for this movie,

103
00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:24,960
Speaker 1: which we can kind of later on unpack how you know,

104
00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:29,320
Speaker 1: a lot of the superheroes who are women don't really

105
00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:34,080
Speaker 1: make it to the mainstream or like the most popular properties.

106
00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:36,240
Speaker 1: But yeah, we can we can talk about that a

107
00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:39,920
Speaker 1: little for sure later. Um I gen'er. I mean, I

108
00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:43,880
Speaker 1: enjoyed the movie. It was there's definitely stuff that I

109
00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:47,640
Speaker 1: think is worth discussing. I wasn't my favorite movie ever, No,

110
00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:51,200
Speaker 1: but it was one of those movies that, like, for

111
00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:54,440
Speaker 1: the little things I was jotting down in the screening,

112
00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:57,159
Speaker 1: I was sitting two seats away from like kids, and

113
00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:00,560
Speaker 1: they were so excited, Oh, that's great, So like in

114
00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:02,839
Speaker 1: that way, you're just I'm like, almost crimes, just like

115
00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:05,000
Speaker 1: in that way, I think that that it's great. And

116
00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:08,160
Speaker 1: there was like a lot of young boys and girls

117
00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,520
Speaker 1: at movie and they were all site and it's like, yes,

118
00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:14,880
Speaker 1: I have my critiques, but in general, I think it

119
00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:17,520
Speaker 1: is a good movie to have in the world. And

120
00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:22,040
Speaker 1: I have kids seeing agree. Yes. I also I'm like,

121
00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:25,800
Speaker 1: I thought it was good. It was fine. It wasn't great.

122
00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:29,200
Speaker 1: Now that I've seen Spider Man into the Spider Verse

123
00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:34,640
Speaker 1: six times, I just feel a little underwhelmed by every

124
00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:39,840
Speaker 1: other superhero metric good but no, there's there's a lot

125
00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:42,320
Speaker 1: of talk to compare women to men as much as possible.

126
00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:50,360
Speaker 1: That um anyway, shall we do the recap? Sure? Okay,

127
00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:55,200
Speaker 1: so we meet Veers. That's Bree Larson's character. I stand

128
00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:58,520
Speaker 1: Bree Larson. Yes, I love Bree Larson. Big fan, big stand.

129
00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:04,000
Speaker 1: She lives on planet Halla with the Cree people. Sure

130
00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:06,920
Speaker 1: she has a power, she like energy comes out of

131
00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:12,200
Speaker 1: her fists. She fights Ju Law and she's stronger than him.

132
00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:15,160
Speaker 1: And she doesn't have any memory of her past from

133
00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:19,120
Speaker 1: before she arrived on Cree and Caroline. Does this line up?

134
00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:22,000
Speaker 1: I guess before we super get into it. Does this

135
00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:24,960
Speaker 1: line up pretty closely with what her origin story is

136
00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:28,520
Speaker 1: in the comic books as well? Or was where liberties taken?

137
00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:32,920
Speaker 1: This is one of the times when liberties are taken

138
00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:35,200
Speaker 1: in a way that actually makes the story a little better.

139
00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:40,000
Speaker 1: So I'm not sure where to start, because, like her

140
00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:43,400
Speaker 1: origin in comics is kind of what you don't get

141
00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:45,960
Speaker 1: till about three quarters of the way through the movie.

142
00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:47,560
Speaker 1: So do you want me to say it now or

143
00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:49,480
Speaker 1: when you get there? I guess we could say it

144
00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:51,360
Speaker 1: when we get there. I just wasn't sure if if

145
00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:54,800
Speaker 1: this was like a complete deviation or pretty she did.

146
00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:58,840
Speaker 1: She did not live on Cree. She just grew up human.

147
00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:03,160
Speaker 1: And when she was that NASA security chief, one of

148
00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:06,440
Speaker 1: the people who was working there was a man named

149
00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:11,559
Speaker 1: Walter Lawson who was Marvel. In other words, Marvel was

150
00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:15,840
Speaker 1: a dude, and Marvel was the first Captain Marvel, and

151
00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:18,720
Speaker 1: he was Cree and he did kind of turn against

152
00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:21,920
Speaker 1: the Cree when he was on Earth, and uh, he

153
00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:27,000
Speaker 1: was fighting yon Rog. Jon Rog took Carol hostage. And

154
00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:29,840
Speaker 1: in this struggle where Marvel is trying to rescue Carol

155
00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:33,280
Speaker 1: from yon Rog, this machine blows up and this machine

156
00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:40,040
Speaker 1: abuse Carol with her powers and with Marvel's Cree DNA. Okay,

157
00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:43,000
Speaker 1: I like, I was, like, it's ridiculous. So much more

158
00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:45,600
Speaker 1: I know, but so you can see that what they

159
00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:49,520
Speaker 1: did in the movie is an improvement on that. Totally agree. Yes, okay, yes,

160
00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:54,120
Speaker 1: indeed cool? Um Okay. So she's hanging out on Cree.

161
00:09:54,480 --> 00:10:00,400
Speaker 1: There's this supreme intelligence that she goes to see for therapy.

162
00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:04,360
Speaker 1: I don't know what they do, it's like so I

163
00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:06,599
Speaker 1: was just like, okay, So there's a green screen in

164
00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:09,080
Speaker 1: play every time that scene would come. It's like Brie

165
00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:14,280
Speaker 1: Larsen on a green screen. And for Viers, this supreme

166
00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:19,280
Speaker 1: intelligence takes the form of a Net Benning. But Viers

167
00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:21,920
Speaker 1: doesn't know who this woman is to her. She doesn't

168
00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:24,120
Speaker 1: know her significance in her life because she can't remember

169
00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:28,880
Speaker 1: her past. So Viers accompany's Yon Rog that's Jude Law's

170
00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:32,880
Speaker 1: character and some other creased soldiers on a rescue mission

171
00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:36,080
Speaker 1: on a different planet and they're trying to rescue someone

172
00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:41,079
Speaker 1: from these bad guys called Scrolls, who are shape shifters,

173
00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:46,120
Speaker 1: and the Scrolls capture Veers and they are trying to

174
00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:49,240
Speaker 1: access her memories, and we see all these flashbacks of

175
00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:52,360
Speaker 1: Viers training in the Air Force and hanging out with

176
00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:55,040
Speaker 1: a net Benning, and they're trying to figure out who

177
00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:59,320
Speaker 1: a net Benning's character is because they're trying to find

178
00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:03,040
Speaker 1: her and get their hands on light speed technology that

179
00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:05,960
Speaker 1: she was developing. Right, turns out her name is when

180
00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:10,800
Speaker 1: Wendy Lawson right, So Veers gets away from the Scrolls

181
00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:16,559
Speaker 1: and crash lands on c. Fifty three. A k ever

182
00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:20,760
Speaker 1: heard of it so much? I mean, some studio executive

183
00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:24,679
Speaker 1: took the nostalgia note to heart and they're like, she

184
00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:30,480
Speaker 1: lands in a blockbuster. She's holding up a VHS day

185
00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:33,959
Speaker 1: You're just like, alright, I guess we'll get through this.

186
00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:43,080
Speaker 1: It's when she and a few of the Scrolls follow

187
00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:46,720
Speaker 1: her to Earth and then the Agents of Shields show up,

188
00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:51,760
Speaker 1: including Coulson, who we all know and love, and Nick Fiery,

189
00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:53,880
Speaker 1: who we all know and love. I thought it was

190
00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:56,640
Speaker 1: going to be so distracting to see young of fied

191
00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:00,880
Speaker 1: Samuel L. Jackson, but they did a great job. I

192
00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:02,800
Speaker 1: was just like, wow, he looks great. And then it

193
00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:06,320
Speaker 1: was like, no, that was that was technology. I was like, oh, okay.

194
00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:13,439
Speaker 1: So Viers is like, hey, Fury, here's what's going on.

195
00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:17,560
Speaker 1: There's these scrull bad guys, their shape shifters, and then

196
00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:21,839
Speaker 1: they don't believe her. She makes no effort to blend

197
00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:24,959
Speaker 1: in with her surroundings. There's moments where Captain Marvel is

198
00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:26,439
Speaker 1: great at her job and other times and I'm like,

199
00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:29,319
Speaker 1: I don't know what you think you're doing, but you

200
00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:33,600
Speaker 1: should probably anyways, I'm not who am I to tell

201
00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:35,319
Speaker 1: her how to do her job? Yeah? Who are you?

202
00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:40,000
Speaker 1: I don't know. Okay. So then there's this chase scene

203
00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:45,240
Speaker 1: and Fury sees this shape shifting happening, and he's like, oh,

204
00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:49,960
Speaker 1: now I believe her. So then she and Fury team

205
00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:53,240
Speaker 1: up and they try to find Wendy Lawson and then

206
00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:57,360
Speaker 1: go to Pegasus, which I believe is like a secret

207
00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:02,079
Speaker 1: military facility. Um, and they're in the records room and

208
00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:05,360
Speaker 1: they discover that Wendy Lawson is dead, that she died

209
00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:08,319
Speaker 1: in a plane crash that killed another pilot as well.

210
00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:12,400
Speaker 1: I wonder who that might be. She's in the background

211
00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:17,640
Speaker 1: of a lot of pictures. They discovered the Wendy Lawson

212
00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:22,120
Speaker 1: was Cree and then Yeah, sees a photo of herself

213
00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:27,400
Speaker 1: with Lawson from I think like nine and she's like,

214
00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:30,640
Speaker 1: oh my god. There's more to this story than I realize.

215
00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:34,760
Speaker 1: Also very important to note there is what appears to

216
00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:41,120
Speaker 1: be a cat named Goose. Yes, how many nipples does

217
00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:43,480
Speaker 1: the cat have? Okay, well, as we know cats have

218
00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:48,000
Speaker 1: eight nipples, that's cat facts with Caitlin obviously, Um, but Goose,

219
00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:52,439
Speaker 1: there's more to Goose than meets the eye. Goose is

220
00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:59,000
Speaker 1: not a cat. Goose is a flirkin. Flirkins have five

221
00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:04,599
Speaker 1: D and third seven nipples. That's flirkin facts. Is that

222
00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:07,559
Speaker 1: true with Caitlin? No, I just made that is that,

223
00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:13,200
Speaker 1: but it's cannon now okay. I was like, WHOA, Well,

224
00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:17,640
Speaker 1: let me google right now, how many doesn't how florins

225
00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:21,080
Speaker 1: does the nipple have? Does that mean we get to

226
00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:24,160
Speaker 1: give out five thirty seven at the end? Yeah? Oh yeah,

227
00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:26,480
Speaker 1: the scale has been adjusted for the sake of the

228
00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:32,280
Speaker 1: flirkin nipples? Okay, So how many nipples does a I

229
00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:35,840
Speaker 1: don't quite know how to spell flirkin f l E

230
00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:38,600
Speaker 1: r k E n okay E n okay I have

231
00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:44,000
Speaker 1: k I n okay So florkin welp. It says eight nipples,

232
00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:46,960
Speaker 1: but it's this is giving me facts about cats and

233
00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:52,640
Speaker 1: not flirkins, so unbelievable, so I can't trust this. Um yeah,

234
00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:54,760
Speaker 1: so let's go with what I said, eight hundred and

235
00:14:55,520 --> 00:15:00,400
Speaker 1: thirty seven or whatever I said. Seven okay is the

236
00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:02,280
Speaker 1: new scale that will be using on the show from

237
00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:06,880
Speaker 1: here on out. It sounds okay. So then um Furies

238
00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:11,760
Speaker 1: boss shows up at Pegasus, but it's actually a scroll

239
00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:16,400
Speaker 1: who's in disguise. So Fury and Veers make a run

240
00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:20,280
Speaker 1: for it and they go to Maria Rambo because they're like, oh,

241
00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:23,080
Speaker 1: there's here's this woman who had given this testimony about

242
00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:27,600
Speaker 1: this plane crash, so like she can. Maybe. It turns

243
00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:30,920
Speaker 1: out they were BFFs in the Air Force together, and

244
00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:37,800
Speaker 1: Veers is actually named Carol Danvers. Oh my god, one

245
00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:40,120
Speaker 1: thing I knew going into the movie. I didn't I

246
00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:44,440
Speaker 1: didn't even know that. And Carol learns that she had

247
00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:49,640
Speaker 1: this whole life on Earth pre pree times. She has

248
00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:53,720
Speaker 1: a child that falls into one of the most annoying

249
00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:57,000
Speaker 1: tropes in the world, to be child who is wise

250
00:15:57,080 --> 00:16:01,400
Speaker 1: beyond their years, really precocious child, the wise be their

251
00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:05,000
Speaker 1: years child, so cute. She's very cute, and her name

252
00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:12,040
Speaker 1: is Monica. So Taylos, the main scroll guy, shows up

253
00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:15,280
Speaker 1: at Marie, Yes, got it, shows up at Marie's house

254
00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:19,200
Speaker 1: and he's like, hey, fun fact um Scrolls aren't the

255
00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:21,760
Speaker 1: bad guys. It's the cree who are the bad guys.

256
00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:25,000
Speaker 1: And everyone's like what. So we see a flashback of

257
00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:29,080
Speaker 1: the plane crash and we see Carol Denver's and Lawson.

258
00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:32,360
Speaker 1: They're in the plane together. There's a spaceship that's shooting

259
00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:35,400
Speaker 1: at them. It's Creed. There's the Creed. They're the bad guys.

260
00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:39,720
Speaker 1: They're shooting the career after them because they also want

261
00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:43,560
Speaker 1: Lawson's light speed technology. Uh. And we learned here that

262
00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:48,600
Speaker 1: Lawson is actually named Marvel. Then we learned that it

263
00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:54,120
Speaker 1: was Jude laws character whose name I always forget, Jon

264
00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:59,840
Speaker 1: rog Um who killed Lawson. So in this flashback, Carol

265
00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,720
Speaker 1: Invers needs to destroy the plane's engine before the Crea

266
00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:06,760
Speaker 1: can get to it. So when she does that, it

267
00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:10,240
Speaker 1: explodes and she absorbs all of its powers, which is

268
00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:15,480
Speaker 1: how she has like energy fists um. And it turns

269
00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:18,920
Speaker 1: out that Marvel a k. Lawson was trying to help

270
00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:21,680
Speaker 1: the Scrolls who are refugees and they're on the run

271
00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:24,720
Speaker 1: from the cree and there they wanted the light speed

272
00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:27,720
Speaker 1: technology to be able to escape and like get out

273
00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,760
Speaker 1: of the reaches of like cre rule. So now Carol

274
00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:34,760
Speaker 1: Danver's fury and Maria and Taylo's need to go to

275
00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:38,840
Speaker 1: Lawson's laboratory somewhere in space to get the energy core

276
00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:41,320
Speaker 1: for the Scrolls. And then they get there and they

277
00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:43,120
Speaker 1: find it and they're like, oh, by the way, it's

278
00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:48,399
Speaker 1: called a test irect. I learned that in geometry. I

279
00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:51,040
Speaker 1: was so excited. I was like, Mrs Foley, you'd be

280
00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:56,840
Speaker 1: so proud. Which which Marvel movie do we first learn

281
00:17:56,920 --> 00:18:01,200
Speaker 1: about the test direct? Yeah? Yeah, Okay, Yeah, it's a

282
00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:04,679
Speaker 1: running thing through the Marvel movies. Yeah, I just couldn't

283
00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,480
Speaker 1: remember which. I guess it's a bigger plot point in

284
00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:10,520
Speaker 1: the first Avengers movie, right, Okay, okay, that's what I

285
00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:12,800
Speaker 1: thought it. And they keep it in a in a

286
00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:20,520
Speaker 1: retro lunchbox, the funds of reference, the property, sure, and

287
00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:25,520
Speaker 1: then this space laboratory, Taylos's family is there and there's

288
00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:29,560
Speaker 1: like this nice little reunion and then Yon rog and

289
00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:33,360
Speaker 1: the other Creed show up rock Jude Law Jude Law, Yes,

290
00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:38,480
Speaker 1: and there's a big fight and Carol Danver's fully realizes

291
00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:43,240
Speaker 1: her powers because she takes off her inhibitor chip, basically

292
00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:48,040
Speaker 1: a metaphor for something. Now, I know this is all

293
00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:50,760
Speaker 1: very subtle stuff going on, and I was like, wait,

294
00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:53,880
Speaker 1: when she removes the chip, what is that exactly implying?

295
00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:57,000
Speaker 1: I will say I did tear up during that very

296
00:18:57,080 --> 00:18:59,640
Speaker 1: heavy handed montage of fall Down, Get Up, fall Down,

297
00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:01,639
Speaker 1: and get Me. I was like, I was like, I

298
00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:05,080
Speaker 1: don't want to be crying, but here we are crying,

299
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:07,840
Speaker 1: and so was everyone else. Well, remember who else has

300
00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:17,200
Speaker 1: an inhibitor chip. Jamie go On is doc where where

301
00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:23,960
Speaker 1: was where was his montage? Alfred his montage. I would

302
00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:25,800
Speaker 1: just like to say at this point that as much

303
00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,800
Speaker 1: as I thought Ben Mendelssohn was excellent, I couldn't help

304
00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:32,000
Speaker 1: thinking to myself, Alfred Moleena would have made a great Taylor.

305
00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:36,560
Speaker 1: So that was my VICTI I totally agree he would have.

306
00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:39,240
Speaker 1: He would have been terrific. They gotta welcome him back

307
00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:43,800
Speaker 1: into the m c U. Yeah, whereas he's if he's

308
00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:47,320
Speaker 1: hanging out with us, he should be back in the

309
00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:51,399
Speaker 1: m c you agree. During the fight, you know, Carol

310
00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:55,800
Speaker 1: is getting more powerful, and then she defeats the Cree

311
00:19:56,520 --> 00:20:00,239
Speaker 1: and at the end she gives fury a you an

312
00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:06,639
Speaker 1: improved beeper which we see in Avengers Infinity War, and

313
00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:11,040
Speaker 1: then she goes off with the scrolls. And that is

314
00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:17,320
Speaker 1: pretty much the story, except for the after credits scenes,

315
00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:21,160
Speaker 1: which I didn't understand. Oh sure, I don't watch the movie.

316
00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,880
Speaker 1: So the after credit scene for all the Chrisms are back,

317
00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:30,680
Speaker 1: chris Is are there. It's too much to explain, But fine,

318
00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:35,680
Speaker 1: we're going to do an Avengers episode. I, against all odds,

319
00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:38,240
Speaker 1: I will end up knowing what these movies mean at

320
00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:43,840
Speaker 1: some point. I can't wait for you to do that. Sure, yeah,

321
00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:46,880
Speaker 1: it'll be great. Um, well, let's take a quick break

322
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:49,480
Speaker 1: and then we will come right back to discuss the movie.

323
00:20:54,760 --> 00:21:01,280
Speaker 1: So Caroline initial thoughts as an expert on this topic

324
00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:06,600
Speaker 1: of superheroes who are women? How did this movie strike you?

325
00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:11,160
Speaker 1: What are your feelings about it? Well, in my research,

326
00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:13,600
Speaker 1: I do like what my book basically is is like

327
00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:17,560
Speaker 1: a history of female superheroes over the last seventy five

328
00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:21,240
Speaker 1: years in comics and novels and TV and movies, and

329
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:24,520
Speaker 1: when you look across that big sweep, you basically find

330
00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:28,960
Speaker 1: that they're underrepresented stereo. I know, it's hard to believe,

331
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:35,720
Speaker 1: hold on to your hat. Sways, they're wildly underrepresented. They're stereotyped,

332
00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:39,920
Speaker 1: and they're sexualized, and they're generally like side characters. Yes,

333
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:42,880
Speaker 1: there are exceptions to that, but I'm talking like literally

334
00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:48,000
Speaker 1: of the time, that is what they are. So the

335
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,440
Speaker 1: way that Captain Marvel Carol Davers is portrayed in this

336
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:55,840
Speaker 1: movie is women are none of these things. So that's

337
00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:59,440
Speaker 1: like a big win right there. Yeah, for sure. So

338
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,880
Speaker 1: umber one, it centers a woman. Number two, she's wearing

339
00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:08,320
Speaker 1: actual clothes and so are the other women, including flat shoes.

340
00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:14,040
Speaker 1: She's got women around her who are inspiring her. There's

341
00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:20,639
Speaker 1: no heatero romance happening, know that like side tracks her plot,

342
00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:24,720
Speaker 1: and it's about a woman who has grown up a

343
00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:28,520
Speaker 1: woman and has had experiences that women have coming into

344
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,639
Speaker 1: her own powers. So I think all of those things

345
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:36,399
Speaker 1: make it unfortunately, very very different from most Hollywood movies.

346
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:38,960
Speaker 1: I mean, just the previews that were before this movie

347
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:44,520
Speaker 1: was like pinful there. One of them was, um, Charlie's

348
00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:46,920
Speaker 1: there owne is running for president or something. Oh and

349
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 1: like starts dating Seth Rogan. God, what sort of cosmic

350
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:56,399
Speaker 1: punishment landed Charlie's there on in this movie. I just

351
00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:00,960
Speaker 1: my heart goes out to whatever sinister tea all. But

352
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:03,720
Speaker 1: that was just the perfect example of it's like they're

353
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,600
Speaker 1: ostensibly making her this strong character, but really the whole

354
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:11,040
Speaker 1: movie is about her and she loveby Seth Rogan taking

355
00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:13,800
Speaker 1: her to a bar and doing shots, and you know,

356
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,359
Speaker 1: it's just why, why any times is that going to

357
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:20,240
Speaker 1: happen in a movie where a perfectly good female character

358
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:24,560
Speaker 1: is just as her life absolutely ruined and derailed by

359
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:30,040
Speaker 1: a Seth Rogan character by Seth specifically, it's practically a

360
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:37,560
Speaker 1: sub genre. It's like anyways, Yes, so this movie, unlike

361
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:44,560
Speaker 1: nearly every single superhero movie to date does mostly the

362
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:47,360
Speaker 1: opposite of everything that those movies do. Yeah, I mean,

363
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,840
Speaker 1: and the and the lack of a romantic subplot is

364
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:57,399
Speaker 1: huge that never happens, right, are very usually romantic subplots

365
00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:02,880
Speaker 1: in male driven movies as well with underwritten female characters.

366
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,480
Speaker 1: I mean, if they're going to rescue them, yes, right, right,

367
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,399
Speaker 1: and and you truly don't miss it, like there's no

368
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:12,960
Speaker 1: there's no room for it. There's a lot going on

369
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:18,280
Speaker 1: in this movie. She's she's busy. Yeah. In more recent comics,

370
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,480
Speaker 1: she has kind of an on and off relationship with Rhadi,

371
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 1: who you saw in the post credit sequence. Okay, right,

372
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:28,680
Speaker 1: right right? You know, maybe they'll give a glance to

373
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 1: each other in the Avengers movie or something. I don't know.

374
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,960
Speaker 1: That's a rather glaring age difference, but they couldn't have known.

375
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm pretty sure Don Cheeta could be Bree

376
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:43,800
Speaker 1: Larson's father, But who am? I just touching on that

377
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 1: a little bit more from what I remember of because

378
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 1: I think I've seen, not to brag, I believe I've

379
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:55,720
Speaker 1: seen every single m c U movie to date. I

380
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 1: wouldn't call myself an expert I'm not super because I've

381
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 1: only seen each of them probably once, maybe twice at

382
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:04,200
Speaker 1: the most. Um, with the exception of Spider Man into

383
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,399
Speaker 1: the Spider Verse, which I did see five times in

384
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 1: theata's um. But it doesn't feel like it's not a

385
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:11,679
Speaker 1: part of the m C you like, I don't. I mean,

386
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 1: maybe they'll bring animated Miles Morales into Avengers end Game,

387
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:19,440
Speaker 1: but I don't think so. But they should. But yeah,

388
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:23,360
Speaker 1: I think most of them, because they're all they've all

389
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 1: centered around male superheroes until Captain Marvel, I would say

390
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 1: most of them do have a romantic subplot. Yeah, but

391
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,879
Speaker 1: that just means that there's like a woman in the story,

392
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 1: but she's only there to further characterize them in and

393
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,719
Speaker 1: to be the romantic interests. So right, yeah, I mean

394
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,200
Speaker 1: it's just to contextualize the movie a little bit. I

395
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,920
Speaker 1: think it's like worth discussing a little bit what the

396
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 1: climate in case you're listening to this episode many years

397
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:54,920
Speaker 1: from now, which people will do, which this is just

398
00:25:55,119 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 1: gonna go on forever. But um, the reception, I feel

399
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:04,160
Speaker 1: like it's almost standard fair for uh, woman being introduced

400
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:07,879
Speaker 1: into a large property or like we can you know,

401
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:12,440
Speaker 1: revisit Wonder Woman, we can revisit the Ghostbusters reboot of

402
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 1: just prior to those movies release. Uh men, absolutely furious

403
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 1: people who are who are fans of comics and and

404
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 1: not everyone because this movie is doing incredibly well. Um,

405
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,399
Speaker 1: but there there is a faction of comic book fans

406
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 1: who like there was a like a concerted campaign to

407
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 1: just ruin this movie's rotten Tomatoes movie before anyone had

408
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 1: seen it. Um. A lot of that I think also

409
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 1: has to do with the casting of Brie Larson, which

410
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,680
Speaker 1: I think is almost a statement in itself, because she's

411
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:51,639
Speaker 1: really outspoken on women's issues and intersectionality, and she in

412
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 1: in my book, does generally good job in in giving

413
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 1: care to all of all of those things, and so

414
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 1: they don't like her. Her casting is a statement in itself.

415
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 1: And there's just a lot of, I guess, unsurprising controversy

416
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 1: before this movie came out at all. I guess it's

417
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:15,399
Speaker 1: it's hard to know where to start here, because I mean,

418
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 1: it does mostly everything mostly right. I would say, like

419
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 1: there wasn't anything hugely glaring to me. There are a

420
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 1: few kind of nitpicky things I want to talk about,

421
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:30,159
Speaker 1: but there is the reading of this movie that is

422
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 1: like the kids I was sitting next to, We're thrilled.

423
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:35,639
Speaker 1: And if I saw this movie when I was, you know,

424
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:37,680
Speaker 1: seven or eight years old, I would be over the

425
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 1: moon obsessed. I think it's great overall, doing the like

426
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:46,159
Speaker 1: you know, beckdel Into. There were parts of it that

427
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:51,160
Speaker 1: felt like a Dove soap commercial. Is something that writer

428
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:54,359
Speaker 1: just Jojo said in a Mashable piece that I think

429
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:56,440
Speaker 1: it's worth reading. I don't agree with everything it's saying,

430
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 1: but um, she's very smart and there there are some

431
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:04,639
Speaker 1: clear plays made in this movie, down to the choice

432
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 1: of like no doubts, I'm just a girl playing in

433
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 1: the climactic scene, which did make me roll my eyes

434
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 1: directly back into my head. Uh, there are some things

435
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:18,199
Speaker 1: that feel like okay, like this was this was an

436
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,680
Speaker 1: easy choice to make some of those more broad choices.

437
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 1: I was like, I mean, I didn't defend it a

438
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 1: little bit like hashtag feminism versus actual but I see

439
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:37,360
Speaker 1: what you're saying. The climactic site sequence with that specific

440
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 1: song pretty much worked for me because I was like, yeah,

441
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 1: it's fun and she's kicking ass and stuff, but yes,

442
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:46,920
Speaker 1: I do right, but it's still like it feels a

443
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 1: little I don't know, just like we're drawing, we're still

444
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 1: drawing attention to the fact that it's like she's what

445
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 1: the boys can do, um, which is another thing that

446
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess this is just like a general

447
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:00,719
Speaker 1: critique of like she's we're always has shown like how

448
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 1: strong she is next to men, and she's like fighting men,

449
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 1: and it's still like men are the yardstick that she's

450
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 1: measured against, which is true to life, but it's just

451
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 1: in terms of like moving things forward that I'm just like,

452
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 1: I don't know, I guess it's like we need to

453
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 1: crawl before we can walk kind of thing. So like,

454
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 1: hopefully in the years to come, we see the much

455
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 1: needed better representation of I mean women in general in

456
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 1: all media, but then also specifically in superhero movies, where

457
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 1: like a woman kicking ass and fighting and being strong

458
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 1: is just has just been so normalized that we we

459
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 1: don't need to draw attention to the fact that she's

460
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 1: a woman and she's fighting like the boys and she

461
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 1: can fight men and we're not. And I like that

462
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 1: that is done not very frequently, but I think that

463
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 1: that is done in movies sometimes without being like girl

464
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 1: doing thing. Look, but I don't know. I mean, I

465
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,040
Speaker 1: guess that that's sort of what this this movie's narrative

466
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 1: is hinged around. But there were there were there were

467
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 1: a few moments where I was like, it just felt

468
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 1: more like a strategic corporate play versus a genuine thing. Sure,

469
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think it's I think it can

470
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 1: be both. I mean, I think what the three of

471
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 1: us are seeing as crawling other people see as running right,

472
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 1: like we think this is for instance, a number of

473
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 1: times where she's told where Carol is told, you know,

474
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 1: control your emotions. Nothing is more dangerous than emotion. You

475
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 1: have to have the strength to get right. So it's

476
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 1: maybe five or six times to me, that's a lot.

477
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 1: But to other people in the audience, maybe they didn't

478
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 1: even hear it till the fifth time. Sure, so I'm

479
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 1: willing to I'm willing to let that go. And certainly

480
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 1: that I'm just a girl. I was like, Wow, that

481
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 1: is super duper on the nose. Okay, barry on the nose.

482
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 1: But my twelve year old would think that that is

483
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 1: the most awesome thing ever, Right, so I have the

484
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 1: brain of a twelve year old guy. No, I'm saying

485
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 1: that's what I'm saying there. Yeah, I mean it's I

486
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 1: think it did this just like they're they're reading, will

487
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 1: depend on the audience, because you're totally right, Caroline. If

488
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 1: there's you know, a very subtle, you know, feminist undertone,

489
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 1: then maybe a lot of people wouldn't have picked up

490
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 1: on it. And it's also, I mean, these kinds of

491
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 1: things even in the sixties and seventies, she did have

492
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 1: these kinds of moments in the comics that again I

493
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 1: think we're they were written by men, drawn by men,

494
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 1: and I think they they were trying, um, they looked

495
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 1: totally like cardboard to us now, you know, like they're

496
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 1: like they're setting up this straw man and knocking it down.

497
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 1: But like there's a thing about how she joins the

498
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 1: Air Force because her father tells her that he'll only

499
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 1: pay for her brother to go to college and not

500
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 1: her because women don't shouldn't go to college, and that

501
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 1: was not an unusual thing. And you know, my team

502
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 1: seventy seven or whatever or where she's introduced as this

503
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 1: is my security chief, Carol Danvers, man or woman. She's

504
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,239
Speaker 1: the best there is and it's like to us now

505
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 1: it's like, why do you have to draw attention to that?

506
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 1: But then in nineteen that was sixty seven, that was

507
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 1: a big deal. Yes, so there's I I feel, I

508
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 1: guess just to wrap up that that area of critique

509
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 1: would also lumping a few of the lines that men

510
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 1: say to her that are just like okay, like the

511
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 1: it's not called a cockpit for nothing. Okay, we get

512
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 1: it because only get it in a cockpit. The yeah,

513
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 1: but it's fun when or when he's like, why did

514
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 1: you smile? Like there's some there's a real general some

515
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 1: just some very generalized misogny um employed, but it's again,

516
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 1: it's like for a family film, which this is. I

517
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 1: think that works. Um. And it is cool that she

518
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 1: steals his motorcycle. Yes, And do you remember when the

519
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 1: first trailer came out, all those trolls that you were

520
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 1: talking about, we're writing, why doesn't Free Larson smile? In

521
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 1: the trailer? She's just so cold? Yeah? I hope they

522
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 1: added it after that. I don't know if you're not.

523
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 1: I just love so much. Can we talk more about

524
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 1: Carol dan versus emotions? Because okay, so, as we hinted at,

525
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 1: it's mostly Jude Law's character tells her that she's emotional

526
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 1: and she needs to control her emotions and emotions are

527
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 1: so dangerous to a soldier and all this stuff, right,

528
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 1: I think, I don't know if this is just sort

529
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 1: of like badly done storytelling, but there's really nothing about

530
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 1: that character that actually indicates that she's very it's too emotional.

531
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 1: Were told that a lot, but I didn't really see that.

532
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 1: I kind of felt the same way, like we never

533
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 1: see I wonder how like specific a decision that was,

534
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 1: or if it was just an oversight, but it feels

535
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 1: like an intentional decision because that's like one of the

536
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:16,799
Speaker 1: moments where they're saying all the right things. But it's

537
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 1: like in the story, we don't really see her react

538
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 1: emotionally unless you count those small moments when she's fighting

539
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 1: Jude Law and she's piste off at him and then

540
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:29,879
Speaker 1: he's like, control your emotion. But that's like such, that's

541
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,640
Speaker 1: so small, right, And that's like happening in like a

542
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 1: controlled environment, Like there's no like big battle scenes where

543
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 1: she like quote loses control of her emotions and then

544
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 1: pays the penalty for it. So like the care and

545
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:46,800
Speaker 1: it's also yeah, I mean Carol in general, like it

546
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 1: takes her so long into the movie to be interested

547
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:52,200
Speaker 1: in who she is. Well, I don't know, there's there's

548
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:55,839
Speaker 1: some strange things. The emotionality thing confused me. I would

549
00:34:55,840 --> 00:35:01,280
Speaker 1: have liked to see that character get emotional about something

550
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 1: that's something that superheroes don't do, especially if they could

551
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 1: handle it in narrative of like, this is not a

552
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:11,200
Speaker 1: weakness um expressing your emotions. You can come at that

553
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 1: from the soldier perspective two of like repressed emotions equals

554
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:19,279
Speaker 1: PTSD for life, you know. But yeah, I didn't really

555
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,279
Speaker 1: touch him. Yeah, I think before I saw the movie,

556
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 1: I had at least seen like the title of an

557
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 1: article that was that was talking about her emotions and

558
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 1: how like the movie is painting her as this emotional character.

559
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 1: So I was worried that that was going to be

560
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:40,279
Speaker 1: her arc, where like she's too emotional because she is

561
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 1: a woman and women be emotional, and that her arc

562
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 1: would have to be her learning to control those emotions

563
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,879
Speaker 1: and that's what like enables her to win. I think

564
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 1: the opposite happens, where she isn't very emotional at all

565
00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 1: in the beginning of the movie, and then when she

566
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 1: starts to learn about her past and her former identity

567
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 1: and the fact that she had been betrayed by Jude

568
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 1: Law's character and all of that, and that she's reunited

569
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 1: with like her best friend and her bestmand's daughter like

570
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 1: in those scenes. Yeah, and then those things kind of

571
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 1: like humanize her, because up until that point, she had

572
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:21,800
Speaker 1: been kind of like a like a stiff, you know,

573
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 1: like stoic hero type, and then she becomes more humanized

574
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:31,960
Speaker 1: and more emotional, and that's what kind of leads her

575
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 1: to realize, oh, I've been stunted this whole time. There's

576
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:38,319
Speaker 1: this fucking inhibitor chip that I need to break off.

577
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 1: And then right, yeah, yeah, So I'm glad that that's

578
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,919
Speaker 1: how the story panned out, because I was, like I said,

579
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:48,239
Speaker 1: I was worried that it was going to be, like,

580
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 1: you're so emotional and you're gonna need to learn to

581
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 1: control your emotions if you want to harness your power.

582
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 1: But that's just what Jude Law tells her over and

583
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:57,960
Speaker 1: over again. And he's the villain because he's got resting

584
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:02,720
Speaker 1: villain faith, he's got like yellow contexts, and so therefore

585
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 1: he's said, yeah, he's got jaundice, he can't be attracted

586
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:10,959
Speaker 1: the first time I saw it twice. Also, the first

587
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:14,399
Speaker 1: time I saw it, I had that issue as well.

588
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 1: I felt like in a number of places she seemed

589
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 1: very flat and controlled to me. And I am also

590
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:25,759
Speaker 1: coming from a different perspective, which is, I've read all

591
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:29,719
Speaker 1: these comics where from really when she's introduced all the

592
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 1: way up through today, she is emotional, she has a temper,

593
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 1: she punches first and asked questions later. She goes with

594
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:41,839
Speaker 1: her gut all the time. She's very loving, but she's

595
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 1: also self righteous and funny, and you know, I mean,

596
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 1: she just doesn't take any crap anybody. So I was

597
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 1: assuming I was going to see that immediately, and I

598
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:55,319
Speaker 1: was disappointed at first because I felt like what you said,

599
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:56,719
Speaker 1: where you just kind of see it a little more

600
00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:57,840
Speaker 1: and a little more and a little more as it

601
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 1: goes along. And then I thought about it more before

602
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:02,439
Speaker 1: I saw it the second time. In the second time,

603
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:06,359
Speaker 1: I felt more like I could see what I think

604
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 1: they were trying to do, which is that, you know,

605
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:10,719
Speaker 1: one of the first things she says is like she

606
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 1: makes a joke to Jude Law and he's like, humor

607
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:17,000
Speaker 1: as a distraction, control yourself, and then she they're going

608
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 1: on a mission and she is joking and he comes

609
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:21,800
Speaker 1: on and says, you know, stop that right now. So,

610
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:24,839
Speaker 1: like she's always leaking out these little things and being

611
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 1: told to stop. And then when she gets to Earth,

612
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 1: it's different because like she can joke with Nick Fury

613
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 1: and whatever, and she can be emotional with So I

614
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 1: think that what they were trying to do is say,

615
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 1: you know this, this is who she is, but she's

616
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:42,839
Speaker 1: been kept down in the beginning. Then whenever she's around Cree,

617
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 1: she can't show that, and she's been trained for six

618
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:48,239
Speaker 1: years not to show it, but she can't help it

619
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 1: because this is who she is. She's human shaped by experience. Yeah,

620
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:55,800
Speaker 1: so I think that's what they were going for, but

621
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 1: I agree with you that it's not always effective. It

622
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:02,359
Speaker 1: will hold you away from her from grabbing onto her

623
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,880
Speaker 1: um in the beginning, especially totally because well, so I

624
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 1: found myself expecting to have a much stronger emotional connection

625
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 1: to this movie, because at least when I saw like

626
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 1: Wonder Woman, I was like, oh my god, it's a

627
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 1: woman and she's kicking ass and she's walking through no

628
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 1: man's land and there's epic music and I'm just crying

629
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 1: and all this stuff. I didn't have any such emotional

630
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:32,759
Speaker 1: connection to this movie I had Again, I had a

631
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:35,759
Speaker 1: much stronger emotional connection to Spider Verse because I was

632
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 1: like crying at four different parts. I'm like laughing the

633
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:41,400
Speaker 1: whole time. It's just like and then with with Captain Marvel,

634
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 1: I'm just like, Okay, it's cool that I'm seeing on

635
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:48,239
Speaker 1: screen this like strong woman kicking ass. But I mean, yeah,

636
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:50,880
Speaker 1: I guess my only counter argument to that would be,

637
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,719
Speaker 1: like I felt, I felt more connected to her than

638
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 1: I ever have to like any male superhero. Maybe I

639
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:01,359
Speaker 1: just need to see Spider Verse. But there, uh yeah,

640
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:04,839
Speaker 1: it's it's weird. She I feel like she's almost as

641
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:10,320
Speaker 1: emotionally detached as a male superhero can be, you know,

642
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 1: like it's I don't know, the bar is set so

643
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:15,840
Speaker 1: high for the way this character is treated in this

644
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:19,320
Speaker 1: movie because there are so few movies like it. I

645
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:22,279
Speaker 1: guess there, it's it's weird. Now. I was listening back

646
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:24,719
Speaker 1: to part of our Wonder Woman episode that we did,

647
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 1: and we were so excited and that movie came out.

648
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:30,840
Speaker 1: But I rewatched Wonder Women, and as much as I

649
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:34,280
Speaker 1: still enjoy that movie, there's like a lot of stuff

650
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:37,400
Speaker 1: that that movie, you know, and everyone's going to compare

651
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:39,920
Speaker 1: these two movies, which is unfair and just you know,

652
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 1: demonstrates a lack of probable. But you know, it's like

653
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:48,840
Speaker 1: Wonder Woman, you got you, you have a makeover sequence,

654
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:52,239
Speaker 1: you have a love story that resolves the plot, You've

655
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 1: got you know, there's a lot of it's weird. I

656
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:57,840
Speaker 1: don't know, it's some it's some woman's When I was disappointed,

657
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:00,919
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, but I'm setting the atation so high

658
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 1: for this movie because there's just nothing I'll like it.

659
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 1: I don't know. There I wanted to be more emotionally

660
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:09,959
Speaker 1: connected to her, but also I'm just like, but maybe

661
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:13,359
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's asking more than I would

662
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:15,759
Speaker 1: have a male superhero. I think the structure is a

663
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:18,759
Speaker 1: big part of it, though, because normally, and on the

664
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 1: one hand, it's great that they took a chance with

665
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 1: a different kind of structure, like a flashback structure, and

666
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 1: she was trying to figure out who she is, I think,

667
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 1: but usually the structure for an origin story is you're

668
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:31,719
Speaker 1: meeting this person as a regular person, and you're being

669
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:35,520
Speaker 1: grounded in their everyday life and you're seeing well in

670
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:37,480
Speaker 1: some cases that they're a good person and in other

671
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:39,840
Speaker 1: cases they're you know, an arrogant millionaire and they have

672
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 1: to be brought down by something that's all the men

673
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 1: obviously there, or they're frozen in ice and they need

674
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:48,800
Speaker 1: to be unfrozen. But you get the idea. So you

675
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 1: you kind of follow them in their everyday life and

676
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 1: you see that there's something heroic in them. And then

677
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:56,840
Speaker 1: by the time they quote unquote get their powers or

678
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 1: they come into their heroism, you've been rooting for them

679
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:02,080
Speaker 1: for an and a half, right, yeah, and you've been

680
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 1: you've been like invested in watching them grow and this

681
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 1: doesn't have that. It's not it's not linear totally, so

682
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 1: it can't within you kind of build and build and

683
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 1: build and build that you get more and more attached

684
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:15,719
Speaker 1: to her, Right, Yeah, I think you're Yeah, you're really

685
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 1: touching on one of the main reasons I didn't find

686
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 1: myself really connecting with Carol Danver's the way again I

687
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 1: connected with Miles Morales and Spider Verse. But I'll stop

688
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:30,960
Speaker 1: bringing him up. But it is the greatest movie of

689
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:35,319
Speaker 1: all time. Um, I just love it so much. Um

690
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:37,759
Speaker 1: we have to take another quick break, but we will

691
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 1: come back to discuss more We're bad. I Every time

692
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:49,320
Speaker 1: I hit on a criticism like that, I'm like, but

693
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:52,000
Speaker 1: if I saw this movie when I was seven, I

694
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 1: would be obsessed with her, absolutely obsessed with her. Caroline

695
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:58,840
Speaker 1: you were pointing out earlier. The way that she's dressed

696
00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 1: for the first time him makes sense things, aren't. She

697
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:09,919
Speaker 1: wears layers at times, it's crazy. I was like, she's

698
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:12,880
Speaker 1: got three layers on. She's wearing a flannel, a jacket

699
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:16,360
Speaker 1: and a shirt and nails and a nine inch nails

700
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:21,239
Speaker 1: shirt like all with but it was it was that

701
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 1: was like one thing. That's like, Okay, you did the

702
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:26,320
Speaker 1: easiest possible thing you could do to make this story

703
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:29,040
Speaker 1: makes sense. Thank you, thank you, and thank you for

704
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:34,240
Speaker 1: not giving us uh makeover montage, a nineties inspired makeover montage,

705
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 1: because they could have done that. They did that in

706
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 1: World War two Wonder Woman, and that wasn't necessary and

707
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 1: they and they that's avoided here. I guess there's some

708
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:47,359
Speaker 1: of what I like about this movie is not really

709
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 1: what it does, but don't Yeah, well, you know there

710
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:54,360
Speaker 1: are five credited writers on this movie, and four of

711
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:57,880
Speaker 1: them are women, and that is the first time of

712
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:00,960
Speaker 1: all the DCM Marvel movies, right, the female co director

713
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 1: as well, um, which is like incredible, So it's we

714
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:08,879
Speaker 1: sort of touched on this a little bit earlier. Something

715
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 1: it really did work for me in this movie was

716
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:15,200
Speaker 1: the gas lighting narrative. I thought that was really done.

717
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:19,120
Speaker 1: I didn't see that narrative coming of of you know,

718
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:21,640
Speaker 1: I mean you can tell they're getting to some something

719
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 1: gas lighting adjacent when we keep seeing a net Benning

720
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 1: and we don't know who she is, and they're like, okay,

721
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 1: you know, she's not sure of her identity or history,

722
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 1: but the twist that she's been emotionally manipulated figures it

723
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:39,360
Speaker 1: out and then is fucking furious. I don't know, I

724
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:42,440
Speaker 1: just like that really hit with me, where she recognizes

725
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 1: that she has been misled and manipulated for so long,

726
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:51,800
Speaker 1: she does not blame herself for it, which is huge

727
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 1: in a narrative like that because that's like where a

728
00:44:56,760 --> 00:44:58,719
Speaker 1: lot of people go in real life and seeing the

729
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:01,520
Speaker 1: example set of like she's like, no, this isn't my fault,

730
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:04,920
Speaker 1: but I need to make things right with the people

731
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:08,200
Speaker 1: I have inadvertently wronged. And then she does that with

732
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:11,880
Speaker 1: the scroll and and like, you know, it's like Okay,

733
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:14,239
Speaker 1: this happened. I don't blame myself, but how can we

734
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:17,759
Speaker 1: make things right? And she does. I don't know. I

735
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:19,840
Speaker 1: just thought that that was like a very well handled

736
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:23,920
Speaker 1: portion of this story. Yeah, and I liked that there

737
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:27,160
Speaker 1: was a little nagging along with the gas lighting because

738
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 1: she says things like without us, you're weak and you're flawed,

739
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:34,120
Speaker 1: and we made you strong, you know, right, which is

740
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:36,880
Speaker 1: like more and more of the on the nosiness. But

741
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:40,360
Speaker 1: I don't know, it worked for me, and that was, like,

742
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:44,480
Speaker 1: I think maybe my one of my favorite storylines in

743
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:48,400
Speaker 1: the movie was her navigating a gas lighting narrative and

744
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:52,880
Speaker 1: coming out on top on her own terms. It was

745
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 1: really cool to watch. It was also cool to watch

746
00:45:55,960 --> 00:46:00,239
Speaker 1: the relationships between women in this movie. I almost wish

747
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 1: there was a little more of that because the other

748
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:06,799
Speaker 1: female characters outside of Captain Marvel uh seems very much

749
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:10,920
Speaker 1: relegated to the B or C characters where we've got,

750
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:16,560
Speaker 1: you know, like her bff in this movie, besides um, sorry,

751
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:19,879
Speaker 1: what's her name? The Maria Maria but like but her

752
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:23,880
Speaker 1: like implied right hand man in this movie is Nick Fury.

753
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:29,080
Speaker 1: The villain is Jude Law, the guy we think is

754
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:31,279
Speaker 1: a villain, but that isn't a villain is also a man,

755
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:34,239
Speaker 1: and I would argue those are the three, you know,

756
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 1: main characters beneath Captain Marvel and then underneath that isn't

757
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:42,000
Speaker 1: net Benning. I'm Maria Rambo, and I wish I wish

758
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:44,520
Speaker 1: that they had a little more prominence in the story.

759
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:47,120
Speaker 1: And again it's like you only have so much space.

760
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:51,560
Speaker 1: But I like her in Maria's relationship. I wish that

761
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:56,360
Speaker 1: there were more purpose for Maria than to just you know,

762
00:46:56,560 --> 00:47:00,880
Speaker 1: give context for Captain Marvel. Yeah, she does, I suppose

763
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 1: have a little bit of a narrative significance toward the

764
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:09,160
Speaker 1: end whenever she is like helping to pilot the aircraft

765
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:12,320
Speaker 1: and then and then it's like in the battle, although

766
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 1: I feel like we don't really get to see much

767
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 1: of her like fighting or kicking ass. I hope. I mean,

768
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:19,879
Speaker 1: I'm assuming we'll see her in the next movie as well.

769
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 1: Oh maybe, um um, I don't know. Well, do you

770
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:27,080
Speaker 1: mean if there's a Captain Marvel too? Yeah, yeah, yeah,

771
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:30,719
Speaker 1: I think that's possible. I agree with you in terms

772
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:33,680
Speaker 1: of what you're saying about the tears of characters. But

773
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:37,160
Speaker 1: there was a moment I was struck by where um,

774
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:42,320
Speaker 1: they're flying to the floating lab and and who is

775
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:47,000
Speaker 1: in that plane is Carol and Maria and Fury and Taylos.

776
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:49,799
Speaker 1: And I just thought to myself, oh my god, half

777
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:51,560
Speaker 1: of them are women and half of them are people

778
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:55,240
Speaker 1: of color. Oh my god, that's true. This is shocking.

779
00:47:55,600 --> 00:48:00,800
Speaker 1: And the women are driving, one's piloting, um and I

780
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:05,719
Speaker 1: loved the sidebar. I ran into a friend of the cast, EDGARL. Mompa,

781
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:09,400
Speaker 1: was here at the screening of this movie, and he

782
00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:14,279
Speaker 1: was like Maria's kid, or Monica, Monica's I think she's

783
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:16,880
Speaker 1: going to be a big part of Avengers four, like

784
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:20,280
Speaker 1: he was just you. They do draw attention to Monica

785
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:22,080
Speaker 1: in a way where it's like that she's like, I'm

786
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:24,440
Speaker 1: going to be like you someday, and it's like, Okay,

787
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 1: she's gonna come back, right. But because because this takes

788
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:30,520
Speaker 1: place in by the time she's wearing like present day

789
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:35,759
Speaker 1: Avengers time, she's an adult. She's a millennial. Honey, what

790
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:38,920
Speaker 1: what do you know about the character of Monica Rambo

791
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 1: in the comics? Do you know anything about her? I

792
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:44,680
Speaker 1: read as much as I could of the chapter of

793
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:49,360
Speaker 1: your book Caroline on of course on Captain Marvel, and

794
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:55,680
Speaker 1: I saw a reference to Monica Rambo eventually becoming Captain

795
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:59,719
Speaker 1: Marvel in some of the later comic books. So, so,

796
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:04,000
Speaker 1: first Captain Marvel is Marvel, who is, you know, a

797
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:06,239
Speaker 1: Net Benning, except in the comics he's a guy. But

798
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:08,839
Speaker 1: he still had that kind of semi short gray hair.

799
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:10,840
Speaker 1: So when they showed a Nette bending with the gray hair,

800
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 1: I was like, all right. But but then he dies

801
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:18,120
Speaker 1: of cancer and he doesn't come back, which is unusual

802
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:21,000
Speaker 1: in comics because everybody comes back from the dead. And

803
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:25,520
Speaker 1: then in two Monica Rambo becomes the second Captain Marvel.

804
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:28,440
Speaker 1: And it's not because she has anything to do with

805
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:31,080
Speaker 1: the create. It actually doesn't really make a lot of sense,

806
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:35,759
Speaker 1: but like she's a harbor Patrol lieutenant and blah blah blah,

807
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:38,799
Speaker 1: explosion blah blah blah, and she basically has those kinds

808
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:42,279
Speaker 1: of powers, and the media labels her Captain Marvel. And

809
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:44,319
Speaker 1: then she meets the Avengers and they're like, why are

810
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:46,439
Speaker 1: you calling yourself Captain Marvel And she's like, I don't

811
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:48,160
Speaker 1: know they called me that, and they're like, well, you know,

812
00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:50,160
Speaker 1: our buddy Captain Marvel just died and She's like, no,

813
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:57,239
Speaker 1: I didn't know that. Sorry. So so she's here. She's

814
00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:00,440
Speaker 1: the second Captain Marvel. Her outfit is white and black,

815
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:03,319
Speaker 1: but it's this got that same star in the middle. Yeah.

816
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:08,520
Speaker 1: Oh cool. She's got like natural hair, which is also nice.

817
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:12,719
Speaker 1: That's for back then, and um. She leads the Avengers

818
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:16,160
Speaker 1: like through into the nine into the like the late

819
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:20,520
Speaker 1: eighties and whatever, and then in the nineties, suddenly Marvel's

820
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:23,360
Speaker 1: son shows up and declares that he's Captain Marvel, and

821
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:27,480
Speaker 1: Monica's like, Okay, I guess I'll call myself Photon instead

822
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:36,840
Speaker 1: a man. I'm like, I'm Photon. But if Jamie Kennedy

823
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:39,920
Speaker 1: comes along and he's like, my name has been Jamie

824
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:46,680
Speaker 1: loft As this whole time, Like, fine, I'm Photon. So

825
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:50,400
Speaker 1: that's why Maria Rambo on her plane, it said Maria

826
00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:54,480
Speaker 1: Photon Rambo. I think so probably what they're setting up

827
00:50:54,719 --> 00:50:58,080
Speaker 1: is that twenty years into the future, when the Avengers

828
00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:00,560
Speaker 1: movie is taking place, Monica would be the right age

829
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:04,720
Speaker 1: to be Photona cool cool, okay, and to be glowing

830
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:08,600
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. And so so she's Photon and

831
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:12,880
Speaker 1: she works with other Avengers and all that kind of stuff,

832
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:16,800
Speaker 1: and uh, at that time, Carol is still Miss Marvel,

833
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:20,200
Speaker 1: and then there's all kinds of stuff that happens, and

834
00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:22,600
Speaker 1: she's an alcoholic and they made her an alcoholic, so

835
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:25,239
Speaker 1: Tony Stark iron Man could be her a a sponsor.

836
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:32,920
Speaker 1: Are so weird. There's drama and so it goes on

837
00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:36,080
Speaker 1: like that until two thousand twelve when they Relauncher as

838
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 1: Captain Marvel. So she's really the fourth Captain Marvel. Carol

839
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:43,000
Speaker 1: and when they really started, I mean, it's the character

840
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:46,360
Speaker 1: really took off very quickly, but there were definitely, and

841
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:50,840
Speaker 1: understandably so Monica Rambo fans who were like, Carol Danvers

842
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:54,080
Speaker 1: is not the first female Captain Marvel, Why aren't you

843
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:57,200
Speaker 1: promoting Monica? Why are all your heroes white? You know?

844
00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:01,560
Speaker 1: So um So, when the mis Kelly Sue Deconic, who

845
00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:03,880
Speaker 1: really kind of launched this version of Captain Marvel that

846
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:05,800
Speaker 1: you see in the movie, and she was a consultant

847
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:08,360
Speaker 1: on the movie and had a cameo and stuff, she

848
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:11,040
Speaker 1: made sure to kind of bring Monica Rambo into the

849
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:13,359
Speaker 1: Captain Marvel comics. And there's this arc where the two

850
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:15,520
Speaker 1: of them worked together and their buddies and they're on

851
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:20,000
Speaker 1: a team together. Later and stuff, they should work all together, yeah,

852
00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:24,759
Speaker 1: Carolyn keep in every episode of Superheroes, this is the

853
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:28,520
Speaker 1: context I crave. Yeah, happy to help with the crazy history,

854
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:31,360
Speaker 1: but it is. I mean, it's very telling that whenever

855
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:36,800
Speaker 1: these movies get adapted, the choices always usually seemed to be,

856
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:43,719
Speaker 1: let's make sure our heroes are male, sis, hetero, white, right,

857
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:47,200
Speaker 1: able bodied. Yeah. And when you look at the number,

858
00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:49,560
Speaker 1: I mean I sort of added him up, right. So

859
00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:55,080
Speaker 1: if you count all superhero movies from two thousand and

860
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:59,240
Speaker 1: then even count the ones in development, about ten percent

861
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:03,880
Speaker 1: star women. And and last I checked, our world was

862
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:08,959
Speaker 1: not white, cis gender, non queer, non disabled men. Thank god,

863
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:14,640
Speaker 1: no a nightmare. And it's it's actually about the same

864
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:17,359
Speaker 1: for Superhero TV shows, the ones that are out now

865
00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:20,120
Speaker 1: and the ones that are coming in the next few years.

866
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:23,640
Speaker 1: That's like star women, say, And it's about the same

867
00:53:23,719 --> 00:53:28,359
Speaker 1: number in superhero comics, very very very low. Yeah, still

868
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:32,480
Speaker 1: a lot of under representation happening. And then, as I

869
00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:34,400
Speaker 1: kind of hinted at before the fact that I had

870
00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:36,800
Speaker 1: not heard of or was familiar with the Captain Marvel

871
00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:40,799
Speaker 1: character at all, one of the few women who has

872
00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:44,880
Speaker 1: her own comic book series in the Marvel universe at

873
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:48,759
Speaker 1: least is telling of how the heads of the studios

874
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:52,520
Speaker 1: and the creators of the comic books and all and

875
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:58,279
Speaker 1: everything have the priority to like, you know, showcase. Here's

876
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:02,080
Speaker 1: the incredible quote from Hollywood executive from a few years ago.

877
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:05,840
Speaker 1: They can always counter pun uh quote do more lady stuff.

878
00:54:06,239 --> 00:54:11,360
Speaker 1: Bitches love lady stuff unquote. So you know, it's so

879
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:14,719
Speaker 1: weird that that and I think that that is I

880
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:18,600
Speaker 1: guess where more where I'm getting at with hashtag feminism

881
00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:22,640
Speaker 1: versus actual feminism of like, they're doing the right thing,

882
00:54:23,080 --> 00:54:26,480
Speaker 1: but they're like, because bitches love lady stuff and we'll

883
00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:29,920
Speaker 1: make five million dollars in three days, which I mean,

884
00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:32,919
Speaker 1: that's the game. That's the game. So that's what's gonna happen.

885
00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:36,600
Speaker 1: But yeah, the bitches love lady stuff at moments in

886
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:39,360
Speaker 1: this movie has like I say, I see you, I

887
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:44,200
Speaker 1: see you. Um. Yeah, they also did do better. I

888
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:47,240
Speaker 1: just want to point out with with having more women

889
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:51,960
Speaker 1: and men of color in the cast, I counted about

890
00:54:52,080 --> 00:54:54,200
Speaker 1: a third of the women or women of color and

891
00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:56,120
Speaker 1: about a quarter of the men or men of color

892
00:54:56,520 --> 00:54:59,200
Speaker 1: better than you rule, I would say, Yeah, I want

893
00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:03,160
Speaker 1: to make sure I'm getting her name right, Gemma chan Is.

894
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:06,360
Speaker 1: She's not in this movie very very much. She's also

895
00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:10,239
Speaker 1: the one woman who doesn't like Captain Marvel, which it

896
00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:15,360
Speaker 1: did appreciate. Uh. You see, I feel like sometimes in

897
00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:20,000
Speaker 1: movies that heavily feature women, especially for like the largest

898
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:22,680
Speaker 1: possible audience, women are sort of all painted with one brush.

899
00:55:22,719 --> 00:55:25,120
Speaker 1: They all get along, They're like, oh, we're all on

900
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:27,880
Speaker 1: the same team, like which we are, but we're all

901
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:31,399
Speaker 1: different people, and so it was weirdly refreshing to me too.

902
00:55:31,719 --> 00:55:36,600
Speaker 1: So she plays Minerva, she's one of the cree bad guys. Yeah,

903
00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:40,880
Speaker 1: she's a cree and she does not like Carol at

904
00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:43,800
Speaker 1: any point in the movie, and all other interactions was

905
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:47,719
Speaker 1: the whatever. There's like that very superhero we exchange during

906
00:55:47,719 --> 00:55:49,400
Speaker 1: a fight where Carol is like, is this why we

907
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:51,719
Speaker 1: didn't hang out? And then Minerva is like, no, I

908
00:55:51,880 --> 00:55:55,120
Speaker 1: just didn't like you, and then they keep fighting, which

909
00:55:55,239 --> 00:55:58,279
Speaker 1: is so silly, But it's like, I do appreciate when

910
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:02,960
Speaker 1: care is taken to, you know, show women having different

911
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:07,360
Speaker 1: kinds of relationships. You've got the professional relationship of Marvel

912
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:12,480
Speaker 1: and Carol, You've got the close friendship with her and Maria,

913
00:56:12,680 --> 00:56:16,399
Speaker 1: and then you've got like a contentious work place, right,

914
00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:20,560
Speaker 1: relationship with Minerva. There's always room for more, but but

915
00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:23,759
Speaker 1: it was nice to see kind of different kinds of relationships.

916
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:26,759
Speaker 1: And then also like the kind of like Carol ends

917
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:30,279
Speaker 1: up acting is like sort of like a surrogate co

918
00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:36,720
Speaker 1: parent of like Monica. And the fact that, um, most

919
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:39,600
Speaker 1: of the women in this movie, in fact, with the

920
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:43,000
Speaker 1: exception of Monica, who is a child, um, all of

921
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:46,239
Speaker 1: the women in this movie are either military or women

922
00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:52,200
Speaker 1: in stem or both. So and we scientific right, Yeah,

923
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:54,680
Speaker 1: so you know, you've got scientists, you've got soldiers, you've

924
00:56:54,719 --> 00:56:59,560
Speaker 1: got roles that you don't usually see women occupying in movies.

925
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:02,880
Speaker 1: So that was pretty cool. There's also the line that

926
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:07,560
Speaker 1: Maria says when Carol is like rediscovering her identity as

927
00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:11,680
Speaker 1: Carol Danvers. Maria says, the Air Force wasn't letting women

928
00:57:11,760 --> 00:57:14,920
Speaker 1: fly combat back then, so testing Lawson's plan was the

929
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:17,520
Speaker 1: only way to fly. So they were like the you know,

930
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:21,560
Speaker 1: the patriarchy was not letting women do things, so they

931
00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:25,840
Speaker 1: found ways to get around it. And you know, I

932
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:29,040
Speaker 1: was like, cool, I'm glad that you did that. Yeah,

933
00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:32,800
Speaker 1: were there any other big stuff you wanted to discuss?

934
00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:38,200
Speaker 1: I wanted to say a word about amnesia. Sure, great, Um,

935
00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:41,040
Speaker 1: I think that sometimes that can be kind of a

936
00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:44,919
Speaker 1: feminized sort of state to be in, you know, sort

937
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:47,200
Speaker 1: of gets linked with women not knowing their own minds

938
00:57:47,240 --> 00:57:51,040
Speaker 1: and stuff in fiction. But it is true that it

939
00:57:51,240 --> 00:57:54,040
Speaker 1: is part of her history. She's had amnesia at least

940
00:57:54,080 --> 00:57:58,960
Speaker 1: three times in the comics. Oh boy, girl, I know.

941
00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:02,919
Speaker 1: I know. When she is first Ms Marvel, she would

942
00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:05,840
Speaker 1: like turn into Miss Marvel and do superheroic stuff, and

943
00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:11,040
Speaker 1: then when she turned back to Carol and then she

944
00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:13,840
Speaker 1: has to reconcile that. Then there's another time. This is

945
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:16,960
Speaker 1: kind of the X Men related time where Rogue. You

946
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:20,360
Speaker 1: know Rogue, right, So if she touches you, she absorbs

947
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:24,520
Speaker 1: your power. So when Rogue first appeared, she wasn't a hero,

948
00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:28,000
Speaker 1: she was a villain um with mystique like her her

949
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:33,080
Speaker 1: adopted mother, and uh, Rogue absorbs Carol's power and her memories.

950
00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:37,440
Speaker 1: And then Carol is invited to join the X Men,

951
00:58:37,560 --> 00:58:40,720
Speaker 1: but she doesn't because they also basically asked Rogue to join,

952
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:43,520
Speaker 1: and she's like, um, she took my life away, why

953
00:58:43,560 --> 00:58:44,920
Speaker 1: would I want to stay here with her? And the

954
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:48,440
Speaker 1: guys are jerks, so then she has to build her

955
00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:51,440
Speaker 1: memories back up, and then the third time is Um

956
00:58:52,240 --> 00:58:57,520
Speaker 1: more recently, where she basically has to lose her memory

957
00:58:57,600 --> 00:59:00,200
Speaker 1: to save the Earth. It's a little more convoluted, but

958
00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:03,880
Speaker 1: jon Rog seems to come back and she has to

959
00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:06,720
Speaker 1: fly up into space and basically have her brain kind

960
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:09,240
Speaker 1: of explode in order to save everybody. She has Ama

961
00:59:09,320 --> 00:59:13,280
Speaker 1: after that too. One of the unique challenges with with

962
00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:18,080
Speaker 1: adaptations like this is it's like you have this strong

963
00:59:18,200 --> 00:59:21,919
Speaker 1: core of female writers directors on the movie, but you're

964
00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:26,320
Speaker 1: still adapting a character whose origin story was written and

965
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:30,440
Speaker 1: illustrated by men. So it's I'm glad that there were

966
00:59:30,520 --> 00:59:36,160
Speaker 1: deviations from the canonical lore because it's like clearly it's

967
00:59:36,200 --> 00:59:40,439
Speaker 1: like however well intentioned, you know, the deep seated ship

968
00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:44,280
Speaker 1: gets in there, and it sounds like the the amnesia

969
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:48,280
Speaker 1: might be one of those things, and it's yeah, it's

970
00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:52,040
Speaker 1: it's weird having to I mean and even and I

971
00:59:52,120 --> 00:59:54,000
Speaker 1: think it's like even more apparent in a character like

972
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:58,480
Speaker 1: Wonder Woman Um that makes it as relevant as those

973
00:59:58,520 --> 01:00:01,400
Speaker 1: characters are to our culture. It's there's stuff in the

974
01:00:01,560 --> 01:00:04,680
Speaker 1: d n A of the character that is is very

975
01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:10,120
Speaker 1: passive aggressive, perhaps yeah, speaking of um men creating these

976
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:14,280
Speaker 1: stories largely, Caroline. I borrowed this quote from your book

977
01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:19,680
Speaker 1: from Jerry Conway, who his role as it pertains to

978
01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:23,800
Speaker 1: Captain or Miss Marvel is did he create it or

979
01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:27,760
Speaker 1: he didn't create the character, but he launched the Miss

980
01:00:27,880 --> 01:00:33,400
Speaker 1: Marvel comic Ina got it? So he says in response

981
01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:37,480
Speaker 1: to people being like, hey, why are you a man

982
01:00:38,080 --> 01:00:41,800
Speaker 1: writing this female character? And he says, at the moment,

983
01:00:42,200 --> 01:00:46,440
Speaker 1: there are no thoroughly trained and qualified women writers working

984
01:00:46,720 --> 01:00:51,320
Speaker 1: in the superhero comics field. Reason two is more personal.

985
01:00:51,440 --> 01:00:53,479
Speaker 1: A man is writing this book because a man wants

986
01:00:53,520 --> 01:00:57,040
Speaker 1: to write this book. Me Reacon three, why not a man?

987
01:00:57,440 --> 01:01:00,960
Speaker 1: If the women's liberation movement means anything, it's a battle

988
01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:03,520
Speaker 1: for equality of the sexes. And it's my contention that

989
01:01:03,600 --> 01:01:06,960
Speaker 1: a man properly motivated and aware of the pitfalls can

990
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:10,280
Speaker 1: write a woman character as well as a woman. So

991
01:01:10,720 --> 01:01:15,360
Speaker 1: that's what our friend Jerry Conway has to say about that.

992
01:01:16,120 --> 01:01:21,000
Speaker 1: And you know, he's ignoring a lot of his privilege

993
01:01:21,360 --> 01:01:26,120
Speaker 1: and stuff when he says something like that, there's a

994
01:01:26,640 --> 01:01:32,120
Speaker 1: great fun Jerry joke in there. So yeah, and I

995
01:01:32,280 --> 01:01:35,040
Speaker 1: think I think that, like a lot of the guys

996
01:01:35,200 --> 01:01:38,240
Speaker 1: working at both Marvel, and I'm not saying all of

997
01:01:38,280 --> 01:01:39,800
Speaker 1: them by any means, but I do think there were

998
01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:42,360
Speaker 1: a number of them at the time that saw themselves

999
01:01:42,440 --> 01:01:45,600
Speaker 1: as liberal, progressive guys. You know, they were, they were

1000
01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:49,560
Speaker 1: like New York City progressive guys. But like many people

1001
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:55,000
Speaker 1: in the civil rights movements, UM did not necessarily quite

1002
01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:59,919
Speaker 1: understand all the different dimensions of gender inequalities. And what's

1003
01:02:00,080 --> 01:02:02,520
Speaker 1: painful to me is that even today, so it's like

1004
01:02:02,800 --> 01:02:07,600
Speaker 1: forty years after he writes this thing, Um, there are

1005
01:02:07,680 --> 01:02:10,280
Speaker 1: still people in the big comics companies who are like,

1006
01:02:10,880 --> 01:02:13,320
Speaker 1: we want to hire more women and people of color,

1007
01:02:13,440 --> 01:02:15,600
Speaker 1: but you know, they're just not out there, and it's like,

1008
01:02:15,840 --> 01:02:18,000
Speaker 1: how can you keep how can you keep saying this?

1009
01:02:19,040 --> 01:02:21,040
Speaker 1: You know, I mean they just they tend to hire

1010
01:02:21,320 --> 01:02:23,600
Speaker 1: who they know, and they tend to mentor people who

1011
01:02:23,680 --> 01:02:25,920
Speaker 1: look like them, which is very common. People tend to

1012
01:02:26,040 --> 01:02:28,439
Speaker 1: make people who remind them of themselves at a younger age.

1013
01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:32,400
Speaker 1: But it just means they're reproducing that skew in who's

1014
01:02:32,440 --> 01:02:35,680
Speaker 1: behind the scenes, like over and over, it's a little

1015
01:02:35,720 --> 01:02:38,120
Speaker 1: bit better, but you know, a little bit better means

1016
01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:42,800
Speaker 1: that maybe now I don't know, ten percent of Superhero

1017
01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:45,920
Speaker 1: comics are written or drawn by women. And it was

1018
01:02:46,200 --> 01:02:49,760
Speaker 1: five ten years ago, and it was two percent ten

1019
01:02:49,840 --> 01:02:52,640
Speaker 1: years before that. So yeah, their growth is tremendous, but

1020
01:02:52,720 --> 01:02:55,280
Speaker 1: it's growth from a very small number to a small

1021
01:02:55,400 --> 01:03:04,840
Speaker 1: number slow. Okay, I do want to mention just one

1022
01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:07,520
Speaker 1: other thing quickly. As I was concerned about I was

1023
01:03:07,600 --> 01:03:11,480
Speaker 1: concerned how they would handle the military aspect. You know

1024
01:03:11,600 --> 01:03:13,959
Speaker 1: that she's so imbued with being in the Air Force

1025
01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:16,640
Speaker 1: and it's such a part of her identity and everything.

1026
01:03:16,720 --> 01:03:19,760
Speaker 1: I mean, she is always painted as someone who has

1027
01:03:19,800 --> 01:03:23,240
Speaker 1: a strong sense of duty, but who will buck orders

1028
01:03:23,400 --> 01:03:26,280
Speaker 1: if she feels like she should do that. But I

1029
01:03:26,400 --> 01:03:29,160
Speaker 1: was worried that it would wind up being too militaristic

1030
01:03:29,360 --> 01:03:32,360
Speaker 1: or too much a celebration of military solutions, and I

1031
01:03:32,480 --> 01:03:35,880
Speaker 1: think they managed to to not do that so much.

1032
01:03:36,040 --> 01:03:38,800
Speaker 1: I think that they tried to show, you know, these

1033
01:03:38,840 --> 01:03:41,720
Speaker 1: are the costs of war, and this is what happens

1034
01:03:41,760 --> 01:03:45,080
Speaker 1: when you have too much of a military hierarchy where

1035
01:03:45,120 --> 01:03:47,600
Speaker 1: people are just following orders and not questioning them and

1036
01:03:47,680 --> 01:03:50,160
Speaker 1: stuff like that. Did you feel that way, Yeah? I

1037
01:03:50,160 --> 01:03:53,680
Speaker 1: think so. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if anyone was so

1038
01:03:53,840 --> 01:03:56,640
Speaker 1: stupid to give this movie to someone like Michael bay

1039
01:03:56,720 --> 01:04:01,120
Speaker 1: to direct. I think that would not have been handled well.

1040
01:04:01,200 --> 01:04:06,200
Speaker 1: But yeah, I felt nothing about the portrayal of anything

1041
01:04:06,240 --> 01:04:10,320
Speaker 1: about the military struck me as being to glorify, like

1042
01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:13,840
Speaker 1: glorification or anything like that. So no, no, I I

1043
01:04:14,800 --> 01:04:17,760
Speaker 1: liked how it was treated. I don't know, it seemed

1044
01:04:18,080 --> 01:04:20,160
Speaker 1: especially it's like, if this is the story, what is

1045
01:04:20,400 --> 01:04:22,840
Speaker 1: the most responsible way to tackle it? And it felt

1046
01:04:22,840 --> 01:04:26,720
Speaker 1: like that that route was taken. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

1047
01:04:27,160 --> 01:04:31,440
Speaker 1: Yeah I liked this movie. Good damn it? What a

1048
01:04:31,640 --> 01:04:34,960
Speaker 1: what a soundtrack to I mean, as a as a

1049
01:04:35,120 --> 01:04:37,880
Speaker 1: nineties kid, I was like, you fell for it. I

1050
01:04:37,960 --> 01:04:41,760
Speaker 1: felt for it. I can't help it. You know. It

1051
01:04:41,880 --> 01:04:44,920
Speaker 1: was a good sound track. So, hey, does this movie

1052
01:04:45,320 --> 01:04:50,480
Speaker 1: pass the Bechtel test Flying Colors? It does. Yeah, there's

1053
01:04:50,480 --> 01:04:53,400
Speaker 1: a lot of different combinations of characters also, who talked

1054
01:04:53,440 --> 01:04:57,040
Speaker 1: to each other that passed. We've got Carol Danvers and Maria.

1055
01:04:57,240 --> 01:05:02,160
Speaker 1: We've got her and Maria's daughter, Monica. We've got Maria

1056
01:05:02,280 --> 01:05:06,400
Speaker 1: and Monica. We've got Carol Denver's and Wendy Lawson. You know,

1057
01:05:06,520 --> 01:05:09,880
Speaker 1: they're talking about the Air Force, they're talking about their work,

1058
01:05:10,440 --> 01:05:14,160
Speaker 1: their friendships. Um, setting a good example. We didn't really

1059
01:05:14,200 --> 01:05:19,840
Speaker 1: touch about parenting. Yeah, they talk about everything, and there's

1060
01:05:19,880 --> 01:05:22,640
Speaker 1: one like the world. They're almost like how women just

1061
01:05:22,880 --> 01:05:27,480
Speaker 1: talk about stuff other than men all the time. There's

1062
01:05:27,520 --> 01:05:31,600
Speaker 1: even a short exchange where the grandparents arrived to babysit Monica,

1063
01:05:31,680 --> 01:05:34,200
Speaker 1: which they totally didn't have to do, so I appreciated

1064
01:05:34,240 --> 01:05:36,520
Speaker 1: that they did it. And the grandparents arrived and the

1065
01:05:36,640 --> 01:05:39,160
Speaker 1: grandmother is like, what's going on? And Maria is like,

1066
01:05:39,360 --> 01:05:43,520
Speaker 1: thanks to combin mama or whatever. Oh I somehow missed that.

1067
01:05:43,680 --> 01:05:47,280
Speaker 1: I was probably too busy writing notes because I'm such

1068
01:05:47,320 --> 01:05:52,120
Speaker 1: a note head. But there is more. It's more of

1069
01:05:52,160 --> 01:05:55,680
Speaker 1: a monologue. But there's a scene where Maria is telling

1070
01:05:56,080 --> 01:05:58,960
Speaker 1: Carol like how strong she is and how awesome she

1071
01:05:59,240 --> 01:06:02,400
Speaker 1: is eve and before she had you know, fire hands,

1072
01:06:03,000 --> 01:06:06,320
Speaker 1: and we just like so rarely see like women lifting

1073
01:06:06,600 --> 01:06:10,280
Speaker 1: up other women in stories that I was like, that's awesome.

1074
01:06:10,400 --> 01:06:14,160
Speaker 1: I really liked that scene. It's nice. Yeah, yeah, passes

1075
01:06:14,760 --> 01:06:19,040
Speaker 1: uh pretty handily. This movie. Let's rate it on a

1076
01:06:19,160 --> 01:06:22,320
Speaker 1: nipple scale, all right, chelmy, zero to five nipples based

1077
01:06:22,480 --> 01:06:25,960
Speaker 1: on its portrayal and representation of women. I think this

1078
01:06:26,120 --> 01:06:30,360
Speaker 1: is like a solid four point five. It misses a

1079
01:06:30,440 --> 01:06:33,960
Speaker 1: lot of the tropes and stereotypes that we've seen of

1080
01:06:34,240 --> 01:06:37,520
Speaker 1: women thus far in super hero movies, and that's largely

1081
01:06:37,640 --> 01:06:41,800
Speaker 1: because it's a woman driving the narrative, a woman whose

1082
01:06:42,560 --> 01:06:46,960
Speaker 1: emotional journey and whose powers we are learning about and exploring.

1083
01:06:47,280 --> 01:06:50,320
Speaker 1: And yeah, there's no, it doesn't fall into the traps

1084
01:06:50,360 --> 01:06:52,880
Speaker 1: of like a love story has to be there, and

1085
01:06:53,000 --> 01:06:56,240
Speaker 1: it's like, no, it doesn't. There's no makeover scene as

1086
01:06:56,320 --> 01:06:59,200
Speaker 1: we just got stuff like that. So I think it

1087
01:06:59,280 --> 01:07:02,640
Speaker 1: handles a lot of things. Well, I think I'm taking

1088
01:07:02,720 --> 01:07:07,720
Speaker 1: off a slight bit of nippleage for the fact that,

1089
01:07:08,120 --> 01:07:12,400
Speaker 1: as we discussed after Carol Danvers, the three core characters

1090
01:07:12,520 --> 01:07:16,040
Speaker 1: are still men, and while she does interact with women

1091
01:07:16,080 --> 01:07:19,040
Speaker 1: a lot, we don't know those characters as well, and

1092
01:07:19,320 --> 01:07:25,560
Speaker 1: they don't have as much significance narratively as the male characters. Um,

1093
01:07:25,720 --> 01:07:28,040
Speaker 1: so I think some justice could have been made to

1094
01:07:28,560 --> 01:07:30,480
Speaker 1: make more of the female characters a little bit more

1095
01:07:30,560 --> 01:07:33,680
Speaker 1: prominent in the story. But yeah, I think uh, I

1096
01:07:33,800 --> 01:07:36,360
Speaker 1: think it's it's pretty cool. I like that a lot

1097
01:07:36,480 --> 01:07:38,520
Speaker 1: of the main characters who we do get to meet

1098
01:07:38,560 --> 01:07:41,960
Speaker 1: our people of color. I mean, there's no queer representation.

1099
01:07:42,000 --> 01:07:44,840
Speaker 1: But it's also a pretty a sexual movie. So yeah,

1100
01:07:45,200 --> 01:07:47,320
Speaker 1: there's no you know, queer romance, but there's no head

1101
01:07:47,320 --> 01:07:50,440
Speaker 1: of roll romance either, so there's just no romance. So

1102
01:07:50,720 --> 01:07:55,160
Speaker 1: that's all those Some people on the internet are reading

1103
01:07:55,360 --> 01:07:59,800
Speaker 1: Carol and Maria as being oh, they're shipping that relationship. Okay,

1104
01:08:00,320 --> 01:08:04,440
Speaker 1: I'm down for that. I mean they're already basically raising

1105
01:08:04,480 --> 01:08:08,920
Speaker 1: a kid together, so there there and and uh it

1106
01:08:09,080 --> 01:08:12,680
Speaker 1: stated outright that they're her family. I like that. So yeah,

1107
01:08:12,720 --> 01:08:16,800
Speaker 1: four point five nipples and um each and everyone goes

1108
01:08:16,920 --> 01:08:23,400
Speaker 1: to of course goose the flirkin. I'll go for on this.

1109
01:08:23,600 --> 01:08:27,519
Speaker 1: I think I think that this movie is great for

1110
01:08:28,439 --> 01:08:32,040
Speaker 1: the like next generation of movie goers. I'm really excited

1111
01:08:32,360 --> 01:08:34,880
Speaker 1: for kids who get to see this movie, and I'm

1112
01:08:34,920 --> 01:08:38,559
Speaker 1: jealous of them. I wish that there had been more

1113
01:08:38,640 --> 01:08:42,120
Speaker 1: movies like this to to watch when we were when

1114
01:08:42,160 --> 01:08:44,800
Speaker 1: the little youngsters, well we were tykes. I think that

1115
01:08:45,240 --> 01:08:49,519
Speaker 1: general cultural impact is good. I'm really happy about it.

1116
01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:54,479
Speaker 1: I do the nippicky things that sort of frustrated me

1117
01:08:54,640 --> 01:09:00,120
Speaker 1: a little bit. Um was the general approach. I I

1118
01:09:00,280 --> 01:09:04,840
Speaker 1: just it seemed some of the problems of that I

1119
01:09:04,960 --> 01:09:06,600
Speaker 1: have with it are in the d n A of

1120
01:09:06,920 --> 01:09:10,000
Speaker 1: the character that was written by men decades and decades ago,

1121
01:09:10,439 --> 01:09:13,360
Speaker 1: but just the like, look, girl can do what boy do?

1122
01:09:14,040 --> 01:09:16,760
Speaker 1: I kind of wish we were past that, um. And

1123
01:09:17,600 --> 01:09:20,679
Speaker 1: it's a point that's been made handily so many times,

1124
01:09:20,720 --> 01:09:22,280
Speaker 1: and I know that there's still such a large swath

1125
01:09:22,360 --> 01:09:24,920
Speaker 1: of the world that doesn't believe it, um. But I

1126
01:09:25,080 --> 01:09:29,719
Speaker 1: just the I don't love that being at the core

1127
01:09:30,040 --> 01:09:32,840
Speaker 1: of a story I wouldn't like if I you know,

1128
01:09:33,200 --> 01:09:36,519
Speaker 1: I would love for a daughter, niece, whatever of mine

1129
01:09:36,880 --> 01:09:41,120
Speaker 1: to see an empowered female character that doesn't need to

1130
01:09:41,200 --> 01:09:45,280
Speaker 1: constantly proove for skills against a man um but just

1131
01:09:45,680 --> 01:09:50,080
Speaker 1: you know, moved through the world as a skilled, capable person,

1132
01:09:50,160 --> 01:09:54,000
Speaker 1: and so that that was one thing that I didn't love.

1133
01:09:54,040 --> 01:09:55,640
Speaker 1: But I don't I don't know how that could have

1134
01:09:55,680 --> 01:09:58,240
Speaker 1: been avoided given how the character set up. I agree.

1135
01:09:58,439 --> 01:10:01,880
Speaker 1: I think that because this is such a mainstream movie,

1136
01:10:02,120 --> 01:10:04,960
Speaker 1: as all MCU movies are going to be, and a

1137
01:10:05,000 --> 01:10:06,720
Speaker 1: lot of people who were seeing them are like, you know,

1138
01:10:06,880 --> 01:10:11,320
Speaker 1: like in Cell idiot boys who were like, I think

1139
01:10:11,360 --> 01:10:15,920
Speaker 1: they need to be spoon fed. Yeah. I also don't

1140
01:10:15,920 --> 01:10:18,880
Speaker 1: know if any of those insults were mind were changed,

1141
01:10:19,400 --> 01:10:22,240
Speaker 1: probably not by this, but they're they're just from my

1142
01:10:22,479 --> 01:10:26,040
Speaker 1: super nitpicky standpoint that that was something that I was like.

1143
01:10:27,120 --> 01:10:31,479
Speaker 1: Same with the second tier male characters. Yeah, I wish

1144
01:10:31,520 --> 01:10:34,720
Speaker 1: that the secondary female character has had a little more prominence,

1145
01:10:34,800 --> 01:10:36,479
Speaker 1: but the fact that they were there, I mean, I

1146
01:10:36,600 --> 01:10:41,360
Speaker 1: liked its progress. Yeah, a lot of crawling this movie.

1147
01:10:41,400 --> 01:10:44,720
Speaker 1: I love brill Larson. I enjoyed her performance. I love

1148
01:10:45,080 --> 01:10:47,519
Speaker 1: who she is, what she stands for. She's got a

1149
01:10:47,600 --> 01:10:49,720
Speaker 1: goddamn mosk arright now she's in the m c U.

1150
01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:53,519
Speaker 1: She's making she's she's making it. She's great. I also

1151
01:10:53,600 --> 01:10:56,840
Speaker 1: like that there is a lot of female representation behind

1152
01:10:56,880 --> 01:10:59,800
Speaker 1: the camera in this movie. You've got a female co director,

1153
01:10:59,840 --> 01:11:02,840
Speaker 1: you got majority female writers, you have a female composer,

1154
01:11:03,200 --> 01:11:07,760
Speaker 1: a female co editor. So there are women involved at

1155
01:11:08,640 --> 01:11:12,760
Speaker 1: every level in this movie, and I think it shows. Um. Yeah,

1156
01:11:13,439 --> 01:11:17,000
Speaker 1: I'll give four nipples. I gave to to Captain Marvel,

1157
01:11:17,560 --> 01:11:20,880
Speaker 1: and I'll give to to Maria. And I do think

1158
01:11:20,920 --> 01:11:27,479
Speaker 1: Alvin Billina should have been Ben Mendelsohn's character. Well, I

1159
01:11:27,600 --> 01:11:30,200
Speaker 1: agree with everything that you said, so I guess I'll

1160
01:11:30,240 --> 01:11:33,479
Speaker 1: split the difference and say four and a quarter nipples.

1161
01:11:34,000 --> 01:11:36,960
Speaker 1: Right on. I feel like I'd like to give them

1162
01:11:37,000 --> 01:11:41,479
Speaker 1: all to the cat but well he's got five, you know,

1163
01:11:41,840 --> 01:11:46,000
Speaker 1: some odd left. Yeah, I give a full set of

1164
01:11:46,080 --> 01:11:49,120
Speaker 1: eight to the cat, to the clerkin. Excuse me, yes, no,

1165
01:11:49,360 --> 01:11:51,719
Speaker 1: I mean I would. I'll give one to Brie Larson

1166
01:11:51,960 --> 01:11:55,640
Speaker 1: and one to Lashana Lynch, one to Annette Benning, and

1167
01:11:55,760 --> 01:11:57,479
Speaker 1: one too. I can't remember the little girl's name that

1168
01:11:57,520 --> 01:12:00,439
Speaker 1: plays Monica. I feel bad about that, but um so

1169
01:12:00,560 --> 01:12:03,680
Speaker 1: I'm holding back three quarters of a nipple. Why am

1170
01:12:03,720 --> 01:12:07,360
Speaker 1: I doing that? Okay, I'm holding back one quarter because

1171
01:12:07,600 --> 01:12:11,519
Speaker 1: when I went to IMDb and counted up all the

1172
01:12:11,680 --> 01:12:16,640
Speaker 1: characters credited and uncredited, I discovered that there were seventeen

1173
01:12:16,720 --> 01:12:22,200
Speaker 1: women and fifty two men, so that overall overall the

1174
01:12:22,360 --> 01:12:27,799
Speaker 1: cast is women. So points taken off for that better Marvel.

1175
01:12:29,640 --> 01:12:32,640
Speaker 1: But I agree with everything you said about the centralized

1176
01:12:32,760 --> 01:12:36,799
Speaker 1: cast being more diverse and more you know, female centered,

1177
01:12:37,360 --> 01:12:40,720
Speaker 1: and I liked that there was pretty good representation of

1178
01:12:41,000 --> 01:12:43,720
Speaker 1: men and women of color too. I liked the lack

1179
01:12:43,840 --> 01:12:48,120
Speaker 1: of sexualization and the lack of head of romance, and

1180
01:12:49,680 --> 01:12:52,720
Speaker 1: that this was a story that I agree it's more

1181
01:12:52,800 --> 01:12:56,160
Speaker 1: of a crawling than a running, but it maybe isn't

1182
01:12:56,240 --> 01:12:58,800
Speaker 1: necessary first step to kind of bring people along a

1183
01:12:58,880 --> 01:13:01,320
Speaker 1: little bit not the three of us, but others who

1184
01:13:01,439 --> 01:13:04,000
Speaker 1: maybe are wavering a little bit on the idea of

1185
01:13:04,200 --> 01:13:08,959
Speaker 1: women having actual strength. Um, so I'll hold back another

1186
01:13:09,439 --> 01:13:11,439
Speaker 1: quarter of a nipple for what you said about how

1187
01:13:12,160 --> 01:13:16,320
Speaker 1: after Captain Marvel. Really the other two stars are Samuel L.

1188
01:13:16,439 --> 01:13:19,920
Speaker 1: Jackson and Jude law Right and and Taylor's and then

1189
01:13:19,960 --> 01:13:23,799
Speaker 1: I'll hold back my third quarter of a nipple because feminist,

1190
01:13:23,800 --> 01:13:29,400
Speaker 1: I kinda for Molina should have been tables. Yeah, missed opportunity.

1191
01:13:29,560 --> 01:13:32,960
Speaker 1: I mean, that's the real main conversation around this movie

1192
01:13:33,160 --> 01:13:38,679
Speaker 1: is like, where was the Molina offer? Unbelievable? Well yeah,

1193
01:13:38,840 --> 01:13:41,760
Speaker 1: but overall I really thought they did a great job

1194
01:13:41,880 --> 01:13:44,000
Speaker 1: trying to juggle a lot of things and please a

1195
01:13:44,080 --> 01:13:47,920
Speaker 1: number of different audiences. Yeah, and and it's great that.

1196
01:13:48,040 --> 01:13:50,599
Speaker 1: I mean as of this recording. We're recording this Tuesday

1197
01:13:50,640 --> 01:13:53,479
Speaker 1: after it came out, and it just hit five million dollars.

1198
01:13:53,560 --> 01:13:58,400
Speaker 1: It's doing you super well. These movies always do super well. Yes, Meg,

1199
01:13:58,560 --> 01:14:01,439
Speaker 1: more of them. This is the biggest worldwide opening of

1200
01:14:01,560 --> 01:14:06,280
Speaker 1: all time for a female starring film. Amazing. The number

1201
01:14:06,360 --> 01:14:10,400
Speaker 1: one domestic female starring film is still Beauty and the Beast. Okay,

1202
01:14:13,280 --> 01:14:18,320
Speaker 1: crawling action. It was Beauty and the Beast worldwide too,

1203
01:14:18,439 --> 01:14:21,439
Speaker 1: but Captain Marble made more worldwide, and it's also the

1204
01:14:21,720 --> 01:14:25,680
Speaker 1: second largest worldwide opening among superhero movies. The first was

1205
01:14:25,720 --> 01:14:29,519
Speaker 1: Avengers Infinity War. That's great. Yeah, that's I mean, that's

1206
01:14:29,640 --> 01:14:33,640
Speaker 1: very encouraging, and I hope that studios will take this

1207
01:14:33,800 --> 01:14:37,240
Speaker 1: to heart and realize that they need to make more

1208
01:14:37,400 --> 01:14:42,240
Speaker 1: movies about superheroes who are women and then also just

1209
01:14:42,439 --> 01:14:46,360
Speaker 1: diversify that as well and include women of color and

1210
01:14:46,439 --> 01:14:50,840
Speaker 1: queer women and other marginalized groups. I really hope that

1211
01:14:50,960 --> 01:14:54,960
Speaker 1: we get a movie with Monica. Now, it was like, yay,

1212
01:14:55,800 --> 01:14:57,679
Speaker 1: that would be great. That was fun. I was glad

1213
01:14:57,720 --> 01:14:59,800
Speaker 1: that I want that. Now I'm like, oh cool. They

1214
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:01,640
Speaker 1: they went out of the way to set it up.

1215
01:15:01,800 --> 01:15:07,040
Speaker 1: I want them to like reboot Avengers, like but hear

1216
01:15:07,080 --> 01:15:10,160
Speaker 1: me out, so you don't. I'm exhausted. The Avengers will

1217
01:15:10,240 --> 01:15:16,759
Speaker 1: be Monica Rambo sure from Black Panther, fucking Tessa Thompson's

1218
01:15:16,840 --> 01:15:21,400
Speaker 1: character and Thor Ragnarok like all those awesome women who

1219
01:15:21,600 --> 01:15:25,200
Speaker 1: and Miles Morales and Miles Morales. Yes, so like let's

1220
01:15:25,240 --> 01:15:28,719
Speaker 1: get that cast out there and uh see that movie

1221
01:15:29,160 --> 01:15:32,360
Speaker 1: and the new Miss Marvel um oh, who's I think

1222
01:15:32,400 --> 01:15:38,479
Speaker 1: a Pakistani woman is Kamala Khan. And with within the comics,

1223
01:15:38,840 --> 01:15:41,640
Speaker 1: she is like a regular girl who looks up to

1224
01:15:41,760 --> 01:15:44,439
Speaker 1: Captain Marvel within the universe, and that's why she takes

1225
01:15:44,479 --> 01:15:47,960
Speaker 1: the name Miss Marvel. She's inspired like her. That's been

1226
01:15:48,320 --> 01:15:51,479
Speaker 1: been like a worldwide hit. It was, at least for

1227
01:15:51,479 --> 01:15:55,960
Speaker 1: a while it was Marvel's number one international digital seller,

1228
01:15:56,280 --> 01:15:58,840
Speaker 1: and it sort of did all these ideas like you

1229
01:15:59,000 --> 01:16:01,960
Speaker 1: can't introduce a new character. You can introduce a female character,

1230
01:16:02,040 --> 01:16:04,559
Speaker 1: you can introduce a character of color, You certainly can

1231
01:16:04,680 --> 01:16:08,519
Speaker 1: introduce a character who's not Christian. But the Newman's Marvel

1232
01:16:08,640 --> 01:16:11,160
Speaker 1: is all of that and selling like crazy awesome. I

1233
01:16:11,200 --> 01:16:13,280
Speaker 1: love it. Can't wait for the movie it's going to

1234
01:16:13,400 --> 01:16:16,879
Speaker 1: happen because it's like it's like Hollywood. You know, Hollywood

1235
01:16:16,960 --> 01:16:19,240
Speaker 1: really changed his tune. It used to say, hey, women

1236
01:16:19,320 --> 01:16:21,680
Speaker 1: need to be in subservient rules, and now look at them.

1237
01:16:21,720 --> 01:16:26,479
Speaker 1: They're saying bitches love lady stuff. Progress. Look at that

1238
01:16:26,720 --> 01:16:31,400
Speaker 1: progressive statement or ladies love bitches stuff. Yeah, oh yeah,

1239
01:16:31,720 --> 01:16:36,960
Speaker 1: I love stuff. Give it a few years that too, well. Caroline,

1240
01:16:37,000 --> 01:16:39,400
Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming on the pod and

1241
01:16:39,840 --> 01:16:43,080
Speaker 1: chatting with us, sharing your expertise. Thanks so much for

1242
01:16:43,200 --> 01:16:46,000
Speaker 1: having me. I love this show, of course. What would

1243
01:16:46,040 --> 01:16:49,960
Speaker 1: you like to plug? And where can people find you online? Oh?

1244
01:16:50,080 --> 01:16:53,960
Speaker 1: Geez um, I do have a Twitter account which is

1245
01:16:54,400 --> 01:16:57,240
Speaker 1: at Caroline Coca, which I honestly never used, so someone,

1246
01:16:57,680 --> 01:16:59,439
Speaker 1: if someone wanted to get hold of me, you should

1247
01:16:59,479 --> 01:17:02,559
Speaker 1: really email on me. So it's Coca Cee my last

1248
01:17:02,640 --> 01:17:05,840
Speaker 1: name and first initial at Old Westbury dot E d U.

1249
01:17:06,600 --> 01:17:09,120
Speaker 1: Stuff that I'm working on now isn't really out yet

1250
01:17:09,200 --> 01:17:12,599
Speaker 1: to be seen, so I guess I would just mention

1251
01:17:12,760 --> 01:17:16,360
Speaker 1: again that I wrote this book called Superwomen, Gender Power

1252
01:17:16,400 --> 01:17:20,280
Speaker 1: and Representation, and that it is a history of seventy

1253
01:17:20,360 --> 01:17:24,800
Speaker 1: five years of female superheroes with some really deep dive

1254
01:17:24,920 --> 01:17:30,479
Speaker 1: focus on wonder Woman, bat Girl, Captain Marvel, the women

1255
01:17:30,560 --> 01:17:32,680
Speaker 1: of Star Wars, the women of the X Men, and

1256
01:17:32,720 --> 01:17:37,240
Speaker 1: Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Yes, by that book, it is incredible.

1257
01:17:37,960 --> 01:17:41,519
Speaker 1: And yeah, thanks again for coming on, and thank the

1258
01:17:42,160 --> 01:17:45,000
Speaker 1: to our listeners out there. Thanks for listening. Uh. You

1259
01:17:45,080 --> 01:17:48,439
Speaker 1: can follow us on social media at all the usual

1260
01:17:48,520 --> 01:17:53,000
Speaker 1: places at bectel Cast. You can buy our merch at

1261
01:17:53,400 --> 01:17:56,360
Speaker 1: t public dot com, slash the bectol Cast, and we

1262
01:17:56,479 --> 01:18:00,960
Speaker 1: have a promotion going on in which we are fundraising

1263
01:18:01,400 --> 01:18:06,360
Speaker 1: for an organization called Black Girls Code. Um So, if

1264
01:18:06,400 --> 01:18:10,000
Speaker 1: you buy our Rise of the Matriarchy shirt that can

1265
01:18:10,040 --> 01:18:16,000
Speaker 1: be found at t public dot com, slash stores, slash Bechtel,

1266
01:18:16,280 --> 01:18:19,880
Speaker 1: dash Cast, dash cares. I know that's a lot, but

1267
01:18:20,000 --> 01:18:22,800
Speaker 1: it's on our like Twitter, and we'll make sure it's

1268
01:18:22,880 --> 01:18:26,160
Speaker 1: very accessible for people to find. Um So, yeah, by

1269
01:18:26,479 --> 01:18:31,080
Speaker 1: that Rise of the Matriarchy design and proceeds go to

1270
01:18:31,479 --> 01:18:34,040
Speaker 1: Black Girl's Code. You can also sign up for our

1271
01:18:34,080 --> 01:18:37,559
Speaker 1: Matreon a k Patreon by going to patreon dot com,

1272
01:18:37,680 --> 01:18:40,519
Speaker 1: slash Bechtel Cast and it's five dollars a month and

1273
01:18:40,560 --> 01:18:44,200
Speaker 1: you get to bonus episodes every month. So yeah, thank

1274
01:18:44,240 --> 01:18:46,240
Speaker 1: you a getting Carolin, we really appreciate. Thank you, and

1275
01:18:46,320 --> 01:18:52,280
Speaker 1: make sure just to pet your family florkin today, but

1276
01:18:52,360 --> 01:18:54,880
Speaker 1: don't hold them up near your eye. Yes, no, don't

1277
01:18:54,920 --> 01:18:57,759
Speaker 1: do that. But yeah, we'll see you next week. Bye

1278
01:18:58,040 --> 01:18:58,720
Speaker 1: bye