WEBVTT - Breakfast Club for Animals 0:00:06.720 --> 0:00:10.360 Welcome to Creature feature production of iHeartRadio. I'm your host 0:00:10.440 --> 0:00:15.280 of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology and evolutionary biology, 0:00:15.320 --> 0:00:20.919 and today on the show, it's interspecific animal friendships. These 0:00:20.960 --> 0:00:25.360 are special friends you don't care about their species. Can lyons, 0:00:25.400 --> 0:00:30.640 tigers and bears bee buds? Can? We find interspecific relationships 0:00:30.680 --> 0:00:34.800 throughout the animal kingdom. Joining me today to talk about 0:00:34.840 --> 0:00:38.680 these funny little animal friends is stand up comedian writer. 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:43.640 She runs the Facial Recognition comedy show at the Comedy Store. 0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:46.400 My good friend, Paula Viganolin. Welcome. 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:50.599 Hello, I'm so excited to be here. I love animal friends. 0:00:51.440 --> 0:00:55.560 You suggested this topic to me. I did, I did. 0:00:56.960 --> 0:00:58.840 I love it so much because I'm like, they have 0:00:58.880 --> 0:01:00.720 their own worlds. They love each I love when they 0:01:00.760 --> 0:01:03.640 cuddle each other. Sometimes they'll catch my dog's cuddling. It's rare. 0:01:03.680 --> 0:01:06.319 They play fight more. But whenever I see them like 0:01:06.360 --> 0:01:08.280 cuddle next to each other, I'm like, I'm gonna take 0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:09.080 a million. 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:14.800 Pictures of you. I'm babysitting three cats and sometimes they 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:17.880 really like they'll they'll be cuddling and one of them 0:01:17.959 --> 0:01:20.800 just like is spelunking. In the other one's like ear. 0:01:21.200 --> 0:01:24.280 They love ears. They'll like go like rooting around in 0:01:24.360 --> 0:01:27.840 those ears for something, looking for gold, looking for brain 0:01:27.959 --> 0:01:30.040 Maybe I'm not really sure what's happening. 0:01:30.120 --> 0:01:32.400 It's very cute trying to find the brain cells. 0:01:33.560 --> 0:01:35.600 Two of them are orange, so like maybe they're like 0:01:35.640 --> 0:01:38.560 trying to like borrow each other's single brain cel to 0:01:38.720 --> 0:01:42.240 use that that day. But yeah, it is very cute. 0:01:42.800 --> 0:01:46.360 But today we are talking about animal friendships that form 0:01:47.480 --> 0:01:50.280 not just between two individual animals, but animals who are 0:01:50.360 --> 0:01:57.680 different species. These are interspecific animal friendships, which I think 0:01:57.880 --> 0:02:02.160 is really it's one of those areas where we are 0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:04.760 really fascinated by it, We really love to see it. 0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:08.320 And it gets into this issue of like, can animals 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:11.560 like have friendships, right? Are they just sort of acting 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:14.840 on some kind of instinct. Is this all like strategy 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:18.840 or can they actually feel like friendship and companionship with 0:02:18.880 --> 0:02:21.239 other species? I mean, obviously kind of the big one 0:02:21.320 --> 0:02:25.279 is like our relationships we have with our pets, which feels. 0:02:25.000 --> 0:02:27.200 Exactly That's what I was gonna say. I feel like 0:02:27.240 --> 0:02:30.000 we get excited when other animals do it because we're like, 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:33.720 oh my god, wow, we're so different. We're like choosing 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:38.080 our relationship, but you guys are so cute. Yeah, I 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:40.840 feel like we try to separate ourselves, but really we're 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:42.280 just like we just need friends. 0:02:42.440 --> 0:02:45.920 Yeah, I mean, that's it is an interesting thing. So, 0:02:46.040 --> 0:02:49.799 like I looked into sort of research about the similarities 0:02:49.800 --> 0:02:54.080 between humans and animals in terms of friendship, and like, 0:02:54.560 --> 0:02:58.680 there's a bunch of neuroimaging studies. It's the neuroimaging studies 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:02.800 that are done are animals don't really go that deep 0:03:02.840 --> 0:03:06.120 into friendships. A lot of them focus on different relationships 0:03:06.240 --> 0:03:13.200 like parental relationships, sexuality, long term like I guess you 0:03:13.200 --> 0:03:16.160 could call it romantic relationships, right, like animals that form 0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:20.520 long term pair bonds. But in terms of neuroimaging about 0:03:20.639 --> 0:03:25.239 animals that have like friendships, particularly friendships with other species 0:03:25.280 --> 0:03:26.840 is not super well researched. 0:03:27.760 --> 0:03:30.200 That's so funny. So they're doing MRIs being like this 0:03:30.280 --> 0:03:34.920 is a pan sexual bi romantic line. 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:39.200 But yeah, they know about all the animal pollicules, but 0:03:39.440 --> 0:03:43.320 not the you know, not the friendships. But yeah, the 0:03:44.560 --> 0:03:49.080 There is a review of neuroimaging studies called Neuroimaging of 0:03:49.160 --> 0:03:52.120 Human and non Human Animal Emotion and Affect in the 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:55.520 context of social relationships. 0:03:55.760 --> 0:04:00.160 That's a good like article headline, voice that was good. 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:04.440 Thank you, good, thank you. I've been practicing by talking 0:04:04.440 --> 0:04:07.040 to myself all the time while I read stuff. So 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:13.600 they found that hormones such as oxytocin and vasopressin and 0:04:13.760 --> 0:04:18.200 neurotransmitters such as dopamine can modulate behavior in animals in 0:04:18.279 --> 0:04:21.680 terms of their sort of relationships with other animals, which 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:23.960 is the same thing that happens in humans, right, So 0:04:24.000 --> 0:04:29.159 like these sorts of hormones neurotransmitters are very similar. Also, 0:04:29.160 --> 0:04:34.200 they've found that hormones cattle hormones. Man, I wish I 0:04:34.200 --> 0:04:36.359 could just like I wish those you know how, like 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:38.919 we have all sorts of cool hormones that can do 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:41.640 cool stuff for us. Now, Like I want a cuddle 0:04:41.640 --> 0:04:43.919 hormone that I can inject into my body. 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:47.719 No, no, because then we would just we would just 0:04:47.839 --> 0:04:50.160 inject it and never make eye contact again. 0:04:50.480 --> 0:04:54.240 I would probably I'd probably die because I wouldn't eat 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:56.560 because I'd just be so cuddly all the time. But 0:04:56.839 --> 0:04:59.240 I have I'd die, so. 0:04:59.320 --> 0:05:03.720 Yeah, so abuse it immediately. 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:09.360 Cuddles are my crack. In human and macaque studies of friendship, 0:05:09.400 --> 0:05:14.400 does seem to activate similar reward pathways, which is interesting. 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:18.720 But yeah, it's it is not so heavily studied, but 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:22.880 there are certainly a lot of examples of animal friendships 0:05:22.920 --> 0:05:27.200 and animal friendships outside their own species. I think one 0:05:27.200 --> 0:05:29.640 of the reasons we're so fascinated by it or we 0:05:29.680 --> 0:05:33.200 love it so much is that it kind of goes 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:37.200 beyond that idea that like there's an immediate purpose to it, right, 0:05:37.240 --> 0:05:39.800 Like if a goose is always hanging out with the tortoise, 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:42.920 you're like, Okay, that doesn't seem like that's a particular 0:05:43.000 --> 0:05:48.640 evolutionary strategy, right, There's no immediate benefit that we can 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:52.800 see to that relationship, and yet they're doing it. So 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:55.760 it does kind of make you question whether, like, okay, 0:05:55.839 --> 0:05:58.800 they is everything that animals do really just this like 0:05:58.920 --> 0:06:05.359 efficient sort of evolutionary strategy is survival instinct or in 0:06:05.440 --> 0:06:07.920 the same way that human beings have like taken our 0:06:08.000 --> 0:06:10.880 sort of evolutionary background and been able to do things 0:06:10.920 --> 0:06:15.440 like love and art and dance parties or whatever we do. 0:06:15.560 --> 0:06:18.039 You know, it's it seems like with animals there might 0:06:18.160 --> 0:06:22.279 be that same room for flexibility in terms of taking Yeah, 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:25.000 it started out as evolutionary instinct, but now like it 0:06:25.000 --> 0:06:29.119 turns into a goose and a tortoise hanging out for fun. 0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:33.800 I feel like that's true with like any like humans 0:06:34.040 --> 0:06:37.440 with regards to like tribes and tribalism or whatever you 0:06:37.480 --> 0:06:40.600 want to call it, where we like band off into 0:06:40.640 --> 0:06:44.640 these units, whether it's for protection or love or whatever 0:06:44.640 --> 0:06:47.440 you want to call friendship, it is like mutually beneficial 0:06:47.480 --> 0:06:50.560 in some way. So I feel like friendship is this 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:56.440 like vague term we use for protecting, Like it's it's symbiotic, 0:06:56.560 --> 0:06:59.280 it's protection, it's it's all sorts of things, and at 0:06:59.279 --> 0:07:02.039 any given point that dynamic can change. What I'm saying 0:07:02.160 --> 0:07:04.679 is Homeward Bound was my favorite movie as a child, 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:07.320 so I know a lot about this. 0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:10.720 It's such a mood. I love Sassy so much. I 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:14.880 think I modeled my personality after Sassy as an adult 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:18.160 or like I'm gonna be a little bit deadpans sometimes 0:07:18.240 --> 0:07:20.920 give a little bit of attitude but really actually love 0:07:20.960 --> 0:07:22.880 everyone and worry about them constantly. 0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:27.679 Yeah, that's a great role model. Honestly, she's. 0:07:29.240 --> 0:07:29.680 Models. 0:07:29.720 --> 0:07:29.760 Go. 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:39.720 We used to have sastfern to sase, yes, but uh yeah, 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:41.960 I And it is interesting because yeah, we will. We'll 0:07:41.960 --> 0:07:44.360 talk about sort of the ways in which like this 0:07:44.480 --> 0:07:47.360 boast seems to be like kind of just like just 0:07:47.360 --> 0:07:49.920 for fun, just to have that connection, but also how 0:07:49.920 --> 0:07:52.960 that actually impacts the health and well being of animals. 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:56.760 So uh now onto the fun part. We're just gonna 0:07:56.760 --> 0:08:00.800 get into some examples of these, like just these are 0:08:00.840 --> 0:08:04.200 not to be clear, these are not like known symbiotic 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:10.000 mutualistic relationships. These are just random animals who like form 0:08:10.040 --> 0:08:14.120 a friendship with another animal that is not their species, 0:08:14.800 --> 0:08:17.400 and so like these examples are from the PBS show 0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:21.520 Animal Odd Couples, which is adorable, and there's another show 0:08:21.640 --> 0:08:26.000 called Animal Odd Couples from the Real Wild Channel, also 0:08:26.200 --> 0:08:30.200 really super adorable. I'm probably not gonna name this episode 0:08:30.680 --> 0:08:33.240 Animal Odd Couples because it seems like everyone calls this 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:36.280 stuff that, so I don't know. 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:39.440 Also, what an insult, you know what I mean? Like 0:08:39.720 --> 0:08:41.880 when we call people odd couples, we're like, you don't 0:08:41.920 --> 0:08:44.280 look like you belong together. Yeah, okay, you come from 0:08:44.320 --> 0:08:48.720 you're different classes, you're different maybe body types, and like 0:08:48.960 --> 0:08:49.400 I hate that. 0:08:49.559 --> 0:08:52.240 Yeah, it's like Fraser and the other guy in Fraser 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:56.719 Niles Niles. Okay, I don't know it's Fraser one and 0:08:56.800 --> 0:09:02.920 Fray brothers, so yeah, one of them. Let's just get 0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:06.439 into these examples. It's really really cute. I will say, though, 0:09:06.480 --> 0:09:10.080 the common denominator that you will notice is that these 0:09:10.120 --> 0:09:15.080 animals were raised in wildlife sanctuaries that host a very 0:09:15.120 --> 0:09:19.319 diverse variety of animals, saved from usually the pet trade, 0:09:19.559 --> 0:09:22.360 or from situations that where they can't be returned to 0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:22.920 the wild. 0:09:23.480 --> 0:09:26.480 Like maybe they were like comedy, you know what I mean. 0:09:29.040 --> 0:09:32.040 We can't be returned to normal to the wild, and 0:09:32.520 --> 0:09:34.560 we don't know how to fend for ourselves in a 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:39.120 real way. We definitely need someone else to provide for us. 0:09:39.200 --> 0:09:42.360 And then also we would never have met because without comedy, 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:45.079 we would have been so segregated in our in our 0:09:45.080 --> 0:09:46.839 classes or whatever exactly. 0:09:46.960 --> 0:09:49.560 It's like, look, you know, one of us might be 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:51.839 a nerd, another one might be a jock. But if 0:09:51.840 --> 0:09:55.160 we can both bond over butt jokes, then hey. 0:09:55.920 --> 0:10:02.560 We're Breakfast Club Club for Animals. This is that's the title. 0:10:02.679 --> 0:10:04.920 That's the title. You did it. Thank you, Breakfast Club 0:10:04.960 --> 0:10:09.000 for animal We did it. We did it. So uh okay, 0:10:09.200 --> 0:10:13.160 here's this story. Anthony the Lion was being auctioned off 0:10:13.240 --> 0:10:16.720 as a cub because people are weird freaks and think 0:10:16.760 --> 0:10:19.640 that having a lion as a pet would be cool. Spoiler, 0:10:19.720 --> 0:10:23.079 it's not. It's not cool at all. And so a 0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:26.600 lot of these lions are abandoned because people were like, oh, 0:10:26.640 --> 0:10:29.000 I thought this was just a big, cool kitten instead 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:31.840 of like an actual lion that does not belong in 0:10:31.920 --> 0:10:36.760 my Uh you know, one story home or two story 0:10:36.800 --> 0:10:38.720 it doesn't really matter how many stories do you. 0:10:38.960 --> 0:10:44.000 These animals will suck you up. Yes, yes, absolutely, leave 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:46.640 them alone, even like I don't know, I feel bad. 0:10:46.800 --> 0:10:49.440 They're like coyotes and stuff on my street, Like, and 0:10:49.520 --> 0:10:52.559 I feel so bad. I would never go near them. Yeah, 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:55.600 I would be like, hey, a professional, deal with it. 0:10:55.440 --> 0:10:59.720 It's funny you mentioned coyotes. So so. Anthony the Lion 0:10:59.800 --> 0:11:02.520 was rescued by Keepers of the Wild and Animal Sanctuary 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:05.600 in Arizona for exotic animals who are sold as pets 0:11:05.880 --> 0:11:10.080 and then either neglected or abandoned because most exotic pets 0:11:10.200 --> 0:11:14.760 are exotic because they don't make good pets. And then 0:11:15.480 --> 0:11:19.199 Riley the coyote was rescued as a puppy in Arizona, 0:11:19.720 --> 0:11:22.920 also sent to Keepers of the Wild and they were 0:11:22.920 --> 0:11:25.319 both about a month old when they met. So about this, 0:11:25.640 --> 0:11:28.079 you know, kind of like the same size, right, Anthony 0:11:28.160 --> 0:11:30.520 was a little kitten. Riley met when he was like 0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:33.040 a puppy and so like, yeah, Anthony was like a 0:11:33.040 --> 0:11:35.600 little bigger, but they were a kitten a puppy. So 0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:37.280 they played together, they had fun. 0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:39.840 I'm looking at pictures of them online. They look so cute. 0:11:40.160 --> 0:11:44.040 They are adorable, and they despite the fact that Anthony 0:11:44.120 --> 0:11:49.600 grew to become a fully grown male lion and Riley 0:11:49.920 --> 0:11:52.760 is a coyote, which you know you've seen coyotes are. 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:55.800 They're like they can be smaller than a dog, right, 0:11:55.880 --> 0:11:56.640 like they're they're. 0:11:56.480 --> 0:11:59.880 Not that big, tiny and they're just like they're so 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:02.320 the name Riley coyote. 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:05.560 Yeah, I know, it's got the wiley coyote, but it's 0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:09.000 a little test on it. I don't know why the 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:12.480 lion's name is Anthony, but it's fine. That's okay. 0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:14.880 I feel like lions deserve a grown ass man. 0:12:14.840 --> 0:12:17.560 There, you know, Gerald the lion. 0:12:17.720 --> 0:12:19.480 Yeah, yeah, er. 0:12:22.160 --> 0:12:24.880 So they have remained friends over the years, and the 0:12:24.920 --> 0:12:30.840 line who's never hurt Riley even though like like it's 0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:33.040 just it's just so interesting to me when these like 0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:38.240 huge animals are so gentle with their tiny friends. And 0:12:38.440 --> 0:12:41.720 in a similar vein another case was a bullet. The 0:12:41.840 --> 0:12:45.920 Jack Russell terrier and a jaguar named jag are best friends. 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:49.080 They also met when they were a little and to 0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:53.320 be careful, jaguar could crush a Jack Russell terrier's school 0:12:53.520 --> 0:12:56.480 like a Ferrero rochare candy, you know, just like. 0:12:57.200 --> 0:12:58.160 I don't want to imagine that. 0:12:58.480 --> 0:13:01.760 I'm sorry, but it is true. Jaguars have incredible jaw 0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:05.800 strength and so like the puppy and the kitten made 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:09.199 friends when they're little at an animal rescue. The rescuers 0:13:09.240 --> 0:13:11.080 tried to separate them when they were getting bigger because 0:13:11.080 --> 0:13:14.760 they were worried for the Jack Russell terriers safety. But 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:18.360 the one when they were like separated, they would cry 0:13:18.960 --> 0:13:24.440 and scream and they they put up like such a 0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:27.080 huge tantrum that they're just like, okay, fine, fine, you 0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:30.360 guys can live together. And they grew to full size 0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:32.560 and they just get along great. 0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:38.080 Like their their so cute. They are so so cute 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:40.920 and you know, like the little one is always in charge. 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:43.839 Oh yeah, I mean it's a Jack Russell terrier. Those 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:48.480 are terrifying little guys. They're the boss always. Yeah, they 0:13:49.200 --> 0:13:52.280 do have quite a an air of authority. And then 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:55.120 the jaguars just like, okay, what are you saying, man? 0:13:56.480 --> 0:13:58.440 Are their lifespans like similar? 0:13:59.200 --> 0:14:02.720 You know, that's a good question. I would say probably, yes, uh. 0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:06.000 Yeah, I think in captivity so sweet, they're gonna like 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:07.600 live their lives out together. 0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:09.800 In captivity, I think it's similar. In the wild they 0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:12.560 might be different. I would say probably in the wild, 0:14:12.640 --> 0:14:16.000 jaguars might have a shorter lifespan because stuff's tougher. But 0:14:16.120 --> 0:14:22.360 like in captivity, let's see jaguar twenty three years. Yeah, 0:14:22.360 --> 0:14:24.520 so yeah, twelve to fifteen years in the wild and 0:14:24.520 --> 0:14:29.040 then that's like double longer. Yeah, I'm crazy. I mean, 0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:31.440 for a jack Russell is a smaller dog, so that's 0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:33.400 it's going to be able to live that long too. Yeah, 0:14:33.480 --> 0:14:36.360 they could. They could be old men together have long beards. 0:14:36.520 --> 0:14:38.360 That's so cute. 0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:45.720 Play cribbage and that what is it a ball ball? Wait? 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:49.280 Isn't that Italian boche ball? Yeah? 0:14:49.320 --> 0:14:52.080 But I'm not I'm not old. I'm young and spries, 0:14:52.240 --> 0:14:56.480 so I haven't. I don't play box sheeball yet. So 0:14:56.840 --> 0:15:00.960 another cute one is at an animal say Juary in Atlanta. 0:15:01.000 --> 0:15:03.760 There is literally a friendship between a tiger, a lion, 0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:04.160 and a. 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:06.600 Bear who that I saw. 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:08.880 Yeah, they all met when they were like a couple 0:15:08.920 --> 0:15:13.080 months old and they just bonded and they grew up 0:15:13.120 --> 0:15:15.480 together and they're always pelling around and it just it 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:17.880 sounds like something where it's like, Okay, this feels like 0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:20.520 a setup, like someone's trying to make some viral video. 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:24.080 But I looked into it. It looks legit, and it's 0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:26.480 at an animal sanctuary, not like a zoo kind of 0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:29.080 attraction thing where they're trying to They're not like put 0:15:29.120 --> 0:15:33.560 on display or anything. Also, an animal behavioral psychologist, a 0:15:33.720 --> 0:15:37.880 Clive Wing like looked into it. From what I can tell, 0:15:37.920 --> 0:15:40.440 he just like hung around them a while and looked 0:15:40.440 --> 0:15:42.520 at what they were doing. He's like, yeah, it seems 0:15:42.560 --> 0:15:46.160 like they treat each other like brothers because they because 0:15:46.160 --> 0:15:48.480 they like argue and they fight, but then at the 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:50.760 end of the day they're like licking each other's butts, 0:15:50.800 --> 0:15:52.600 so you know, brother stuff. 0:15:55.360 --> 0:15:57.720 I have a couple things to say about this. I 0:15:57.760 --> 0:16:00.720 love their names. It's Leo the lion, Bleuw the bear, 0:16:00.840 --> 0:16:03.720 and share Colm the tiger. Very cute, love it so much, 0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:08.240 great job sanctuary. And then they were also like they 0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:10.520 trauma bonded because they were found in a drug dealer's 0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:13.520 house as like babies, and they were like malnourished and 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:16.440 they were like parasites and stuff. Yeah, and so that's 0:16:16.440 --> 0:16:19.640 why they like they came through it together and they're 0:16:19.640 --> 0:16:21.400 like living their best life and it makes me happy. 0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:25.040 It's it's really interesting because we kind of think of 0:16:25.160 --> 0:16:29.400 wild animals, especially big scary ones like lions, tigers, and bears, 0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:33.560 you know, literally oh my, as being not like that 0:16:33.760 --> 0:16:37.120 they couldn't be traumatized, right, but they absolutely can be. 0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:42.400 And the kind of same response that humans need when 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:45.960 faced with trauma, which is friendship, you know, found family, 0:16:46.040 --> 0:16:49.720 that kind of thing, like these animals also will seek out. 0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:53.240 And I think that's really interesting. It really speaks to 0:16:53.280 --> 0:16:59.040 that common need that most animals who reach a certain 0:16:59.120 --> 0:17:02.320 level of social and intelligence like they need companionship to 0:17:02.440 --> 0:17:04.720 get through that kind of experience. 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:08.639 I think, yeah, I think like all animals do, because 0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:11.640 I don't know, it definitely feels like. 0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:13.040 Does an ant need it? 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:18.000 How much they need each other? They definitely need each other. 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:21.200 Do they need like I mean do they need cuddles. 0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:24.520 But I think like we interpret cuddles as like a 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:27.679 very specific thing. But I feel like ants probably have 0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:31.960 another way of like communing with each other, chemical or whatever. Yes, 0:17:32.280 --> 0:17:35.159 I feel like just because we don't understand doesn't mean 0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:37.880 it's not as comforting to them. You know, I do. 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:41.000 Love ants, and I know they know I also love bees, 0:17:41.160 --> 0:17:42.200 so I don't. 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:45.000 I feel bad. I keep seeing like bees that look dehydrated, 0:17:45.000 --> 0:17:46.960 and I'm like, stand up, are you okay? 0:17:47.080 --> 0:17:50.920 I like a spoon feed a bee before it was difficult. 0:17:50.520 --> 0:17:53.359 I have Oh my god, I tried to save a 0:17:53.400 --> 0:17:55.720 bee on a leaf and I tried to like pick 0:17:55.760 --> 0:17:57.800 it up and like whatever, and I was so delicate 0:17:57.840 --> 0:17:59.720 and I saved it twice from falling and then my 0:17:59.760 --> 0:18:02.919 dog knocked it out of my hand. That's like I 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:08.280 can't do any animal care when I have the dogs, Like, yeah, 0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:10.439 like a cat or something. I try to leave food 0:18:10.440 --> 0:18:12.400 for the neighbor for the neighbor cats, and I'm trying 0:18:12.440 --> 0:18:14.840 to get them rescued and stuff, and then my dogs 0:18:14.880 --> 0:18:17.240 just ruin it. They just like stare off everything. 0:18:17.560 --> 0:18:20.040 I love it when I'm trying to, like, I like 0:18:20.160 --> 0:18:22.480 find a cool spider and I'm just like observing it 0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:24.920 and my dog comes up. It's like, oh, what's this slurp? 0:18:25.040 --> 0:18:28.800 Eats it? I'm like no, yeah, come on, I was 0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:31.920 making friends with this spider. And my dog's like, cool, 0:18:31.920 --> 0:18:35.399 snack you got there, slurp just mine now, I know. 0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:40.000 Eat it. Another animal behavioralist talks about sort of the 0:18:40.119 --> 0:18:42.639 role of play because you in these like sort of 0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:45.440 animal friendships with these different species, you see a lot 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:49.840 of play. And animal behavioralist doctor Linda Sharp says that 0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:52.560 the act of play, like rolling on their backs, making 0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:56.080 themselves vulnerable, helps build the trust between animals. So it's 0:18:56.119 --> 0:19:00.160 really really important. A super drum. I always go for it. 0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:03.120 I always think about like I always say that every 0:19:03.160 --> 0:19:06.080 animal is like a puppy, but they're different types of puppies. Yeah, 0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:08.200 Cows play. Like when you see them playing with like 0:19:08.240 --> 0:19:11.120 a big bouncy ball, I'm like, that's just a milk puppy. 0:19:10.760 --> 0:19:10.960 You know. 0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:14.600 Yeah, there's like they're all just different types of puppies 0:19:14.600 --> 0:19:17.000 because they all play and they all need like that 0:19:17.119 --> 0:19:20.080 companionship and stuff, and like once you view them outside 0:19:20.080 --> 0:19:22.600 of the circumstances that we put them in, then you'll 0:19:22.640 --> 0:19:24.880 have a lot more empathy to realize that they are 0:19:25.640 --> 0:19:29.080 like the line separating them from like our house pets, 0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:29.800 it's very thin. 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:33.520 Yeah, what about anema toade? 0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:37.760 I'm sure they have really being weird things that they do. 0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:40.520 What's their version of a belly? I don't know. 0:19:40.840 --> 0:19:44.080 I'm being a contrarian here, I'm being I'm doing like 0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:48.160 a jubilee thing, like who thinks that numa toads are puppies? 0:19:48.320 --> 0:19:49.480 And who thinks them. 0:19:49.400 --> 0:19:54.159 The twenty people stand up? Yeah, I don't know. I 0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:57.080 just think I really love seeing different animals play because 0:19:57.240 --> 0:20:00.520 they often are in survival mode. And I think when 0:20:00.800 --> 0:20:05.080 people or animals get a chance to relax and like write, 0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:07.080 bond and play with each other, that means that they're 0:20:07.080 --> 0:20:08.240 safe and that makes me happy. 0:20:08.400 --> 0:20:11.040 And I mean that's I think that's exactly right. And 0:20:11.080 --> 0:20:14.240 like an example of this is a very dramatic example 0:20:14.400 --> 0:20:17.639 is that sometimes play is observed between huskies and polar 0:20:17.720 --> 0:20:20.880 bears in Canada, which is wild, right, because a lot 0:20:20.920 --> 0:20:24.439 of times polar bears are so desperate right that they 0:20:25.160 --> 0:20:28.320 they really need every opportunity they can get to have food. 0:20:28.400 --> 0:20:31.040 But in this like in these specific cases, it usually 0:20:31.160 --> 0:20:33.560 seems to be like polar bears that are doing pretty 0:20:33.560 --> 0:20:36.200 well for themselves in these areas where they run into 0:20:36.240 --> 0:20:41.160 these huskies and like, so they are well fed enough 0:20:41.200 --> 0:20:44.320 that they don't need to like eat the dogs or 0:20:44.320 --> 0:20:46.920 attack the dogs out of desperation because like I don't 0:20:46.920 --> 0:20:49.920 think they would normally want to do that anyways, because 0:20:50.000 --> 0:20:52.440 they know that dogs are going to defend themselves and 0:20:52.640 --> 0:20:55.320 they don't want to have to deal with that, so 0:20:55.640 --> 0:20:59.080 instead they like play with each other. So it's like 0:20:59.200 --> 0:21:02.840 you see these like terear, Like, I'm legit afraid of 0:21:03.520 --> 0:21:06.679 polar bears. They scare me in the sense that, like 0:21:06.720 --> 0:21:10.560 I think they're cute. I love them. They're uh, they're fascinating. 0:21:10.640 --> 0:21:14.440 If I saw a polar bear in real life outside 0:21:14.440 --> 0:21:17.879 of an enclosure, I would poop, pee, and vomit like 0:21:18.000 --> 0:21:18.600 all at once. 0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:22.080 Yeah, they're you don't freak with bears. Did you see 0:21:22.080 --> 0:21:24.560 that video recently of like this bear that was like 0:21:24.680 --> 0:21:27.280 it's got it had its head through like a little 0:21:27.359 --> 0:21:30.080 hole in a bridge that a car was driving over, 0:21:30.600 --> 0:21:33.240 and like it was I'm sorry, but it was clearly 0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:35.639 white people in the car because like the person taping 0:21:35.760 --> 0:21:38.040 was like, oh my god, I think it's stuck. I 0:21:38.040 --> 0:21:40.600 think we need to help, but it's stuck. And then 0:21:40.680 --> 0:21:42.359 like the guy was like, I don't think it's stuck. 0:21:42.440 --> 0:21:43.960 And then like the girl was like, no, maybe we 0:21:43.960 --> 0:21:46.320 should slow down. And as soon as they stopped the car, 0:21:46.640 --> 0:21:49.280 the bear pulled itself out of the fucking hole and started. 0:21:50.600 --> 0:21:52.240 They got I think they got they were far enough 0:21:52.240 --> 0:21:53.800 away and they were still in the car, but like 0:21:54.280 --> 0:21:56.600 that point had gotten ow. She went in debt, do 0:21:56.720 --> 0:22:01.080 not do that, do not do that. But I'm I'm not, 0:22:01.160 --> 0:22:03.440 like I don't have like this phobia of bears because 0:22:03.440 --> 0:22:04.840 I'm like I'm not going to be near a farm, 0:22:05.480 --> 0:22:07.560 like that's just I can't let that happen. I can't 0:22:07.600 --> 0:22:08.959 let that happen. 0:22:08.160 --> 0:22:12.560 I've seen like a mother bear in her cub from 0:22:12.720 --> 0:22:14.959 like a distance of about like I don't know, I 0:22:14.960 --> 0:22:18.000 want to say, fifty ish feet, and that's good for me, 0:22:18.520 --> 0:22:19.280 Like I'm happy with. 0:22:19.400 --> 0:22:23.440 That's like that feels close, honestly. Yeah, I mean my yeah, 0:22:24.400 --> 0:22:28.560