Speaker 1: What's up? Family, iss your girl to Mika D.
Speaker 2: Mallory and it's your boy, my son the general, and.
Speaker 1: We are your host of street politicians, the place where
Speaker 1: the streets and politics me my son Lennon. Y'all say something,
Speaker 1: America is gone. You're not how they used to say
Speaker 1: that boy gone and.
Speaker 2: That boy gone. He ain't got it all.
Speaker 1: It's gone from street to street, from c to sun
Speaker 1: Shine and Sea. It's really a problem.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're gonna talk about America being crazy because a
Speaker 3: lot going on in America.
Speaker 2: But today, you know, as I drive my.
Speaker 3: Kids to school every morning, like I normally do, I
Speaker 3: turn on the radio and I hear this conversation between
Speaker 3: Evany Kbilliams to us somebody we both know and respect
Speaker 3: and love, and DJ Envy, who's also our brother, and
Speaker 3: I mean and just the breakfast club in general. And
Speaker 3: I had seen some online chatter about the conversation that
Speaker 3: her and Ayana Vozac had and she spoke about not
Speaker 3: being willing to date a bus drive unless he owned
Speaker 3: the bus company. So you know, I didn't even at
Speaker 3: first to me, because everybody's personal preference is their preference.
Speaker 3: You know, if you don't want to date somebody if
Speaker 3: you feel like you're an educated individual and you you know,
Speaker 3: you going to college, this and that, and you want
Speaker 3: to date people within that realm, that should be your prerogative,
Speaker 3: you know. So I never really understood what everybody was
Speaker 3: mad at. So then I heard that she doubled down
Speaker 3: on the conversation. I didn't hear none of that either
Speaker 3: until today, and they were playing clips from both the
Speaker 3: interviews and then listening to her today, and I just
Speaker 3: was I was taken back by I.
Speaker 2: Think in this situation she was tone deaf, you know.
Speaker 3: And and once again, you have your own personal preference
Speaker 3: if you want to date anybody, that's who you like today,
Speaker 3: and there's nothing wrong with it. But what the problem
Speaker 3: was when she started to refer two bus drivers as average,
Speaker 3: when she started to take the bus driver's job, and
Speaker 3: then she started talking about having SS and d's.
Speaker 2: In school and average and want and more.
Speaker 3: And I think the context of that is wrong because
Speaker 3: I know bus drivers that never had season d's, right.
Speaker 3: I know bus drivers who've been a students and just
Speaker 3: weren't able to come out of school and get different jobs.
Speaker 3: I know bus drivers who who never even went to school,
Speaker 3: and I know people who are in certain positions where
Speaker 3: they seem to have a lot of money that has
Speaker 3: even Season.
Speaker 2: D's, you know, they are very successful.
Speaker 3: There are a lot of people I know that didn't
Speaker 3: even go to school that a millionaires. So I think
Speaker 3: when she was not she was trying to say something,
Speaker 3: and I think maybe it came off wrong, you know,
Speaker 3: but the reality situation is. And then she brought into
Speaker 3: white supremacy and she said, white supremacy leads leaves our
Speaker 3: people in positions to where they only aspired to this
Speaker 3: and they only have that, and that those are true things.
Speaker 2: But both of those can't be true.
Speaker 3: You can't look down or seemly look down on the
Speaker 3: bus driver or the person with seas and these and
Speaker 3: then no white supremacy will put you in a position
Speaker 3: where you have to take these.
Speaker 2: Quote unquote average jobs.
Speaker 3: Right, You can't look down and speak about white supremacy
Speaker 3: and not know that white supremacy will exalt the average
Speaker 3: mediocre white man above a scholarly black person.
Speaker 2: So we know those things as this. So I think
Speaker 2: she wasn't listening.
Speaker 3: She was, and then she was wanting her point to
Speaker 3: be across that she wasn't I didn't think that she.
Speaker 2: Was able to properly verbally give her point.
Speaker 3: And she was given dictionary and it was semantics, and
Speaker 3: she let semantics and this is the dictionary, you know,
Speaker 3: definition for average and all that. And I think she
Speaker 3: didn't understand that she offended people, you know, and when
Speaker 3: you offend people, you have to take that into accountability.
Speaker 3: I said, okay, I said something of the people, and
Speaker 3: she was so doubled down, and she just said, I
Speaker 3: don't care if God didn't agree with me. I know
Speaker 3: what I'm saying. And when you take that type of position,
Speaker 3: it just seems tone death. So you know, I don't
Speaker 3: want to criticize, but I was giving my perspective, you know,
Speaker 3: and I'm open to have a conversation or dialogue to
Speaker 3: get clarity. But it just seems as if if we're
Speaker 3: not careful about how we speak about our people, right,
Speaker 3: if we're not speaking about them in an upliftment, even
Speaker 3: if we even if we're trying to teach or we
Speaker 3: want better for them. But when you start telling you
Speaker 3: just a garbage man, you ain't nothing, it doesn't seem
Speaker 3: it's not done in love, or it doesn't seem as
Speaker 3: if it's done in love.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, here's my thing. I understand both perspectives,
Speaker 1: and I understand another thing. Let me just go from
Speaker 1: work my way from the end of your statement to
Speaker 1: the beginning. The whole idea of being tone deaf or not,
Speaker 1: you know, not understanding when you offend people. I think
Speaker 1: that's a tough for us to travel down because there
Speaker 1: have been times when we are saying something that we
Speaker 1: believe and we do not care who is offended by
Speaker 1: it and how people feel. So when I say that
Speaker 1: I believe that cleanliness is close to godliness, and I
Speaker 1: refuse to allow people to tell me about You know,
Speaker 1: I understand that some people have body issues and all
Speaker 1: of that. I get that, but I am even the
Speaker 1: people who spoke say, well, they may be depressed and whatnot.
Speaker 1: I'm still at the place where I'm saying, Okay, I
Speaker 1: get it, but you still need to try to keep
Speaker 1: yourself physically clean as best as you can. I know
Speaker 1: people who live on the street that clean themselves up.
Speaker 1: Go had an uncle who lived on the streets, and
Speaker 1: he used to clean himself up with wipes or whatever
Speaker 1: he had. So I understand that there are different factors.
Speaker 1: Get it, but I'm not going to I'm not willing
Speaker 1: to lower my standard of what cleanliness or should be
Speaker 1: in a realm of course, because everybody has anything. Listen,
Speaker 1: let me just finish. I'm not willing to lower it.
Speaker 1: And I am not going to be bullied or shames
Speaker 1: into changing my opinion. Right, And there are people who
Speaker 1: are beheminently against what I'm saying, upset about it, and
Speaker 1: have unfollowed me because they told me that, They demanded
Speaker 1: that I delete my post or stop saying things and apologize,
Speaker 1: and I refuse to do it.
Speaker 3: Okay, So can I just want to give one okay,
Speaker 3: just one thing, and that is one hundred percent right
Speaker 3: if that's how you feel. So what I'm trying to
Speaker 3: say is if you say that, you can't also say
Speaker 3: but I'm not trying to offend people who aren't clean, right,
Speaker 3: and just say I don't care if you said I'm
Speaker 3: not trying to offend people who aren't clean. This is
Speaker 3: what I'm saying. And I'm saying, no, you'red people who
Speaker 3: aren't clean, right. You can't all you both for those things.
Speaker 3: That's what I'm trying to say. You can have that
Speaker 3: pos but that has to be your position.
Speaker 1: At the end of the day. You know, sometimes whoever
Speaker 1: we offend, we offend, and we have to just accept
Speaker 1: the fact that that happens. But I'm not necessarily targeting
Speaker 1: any one person. I'm just saying that this is an
Speaker 1: overall thing that I believe that it is my standard,
Speaker 1: and that if I have a family member or friend
Speaker 1: who tells me I'm depressed and I'm not really taking
Speaker 1: care of myself properly, I'm going to do everything I can,
Speaker 1: not to shame them, but to encourage them to do better, right,
Speaker 1: and whatever, if it's medical, if it's whatever. So I'm
Speaker 1: just saying, you're I hear what you're saying. I guess
Speaker 1: it's semantics to the point that I guess everany was
Speaker 1: trying to make, which I didn't hear any of this accession.
Speaker 3: And also you can't you can't follow up that up
Speaker 3: and say, well, I understand that white supremacy has our
Speaker 3: people on the streets and white supremacy has them in
Speaker 3: this situation and mental health, and say all of that.
Speaker 1: But I could argue, even with that point that if
Speaker 1: my son or your son, or anybody else child comes
Speaker 1: to me and says, well, the black man has it hard,
Speaker 1: and the black man has been through so much, and
Speaker 1: white supremacy, this and that and the third. That doesn't
Speaker 1: mean that I'm gonna be like, Okay, well I get it,
Speaker 1: and therefore you can go and be average, mediocre, shoot guns,
Speaker 1: kill people, scam, lie, cheat, go to So I'm still
Speaker 1: going to hold you to a certain standard.
Speaker 3: But with those things, that's what I'm saying. If he
Speaker 3: comes to you, it's a different conversation. No, no, no,
Speaker 3: But I'm sure you're not gonna give him the excuses
Speaker 3: for why he should be mediocre, understanding the reasons why
Speaker 3: these things ain't happening, and then't say it's his fault.
Speaker 1: But I am sure. I'm sure though, that the bus
Speaker 1: driver whomever it is that she's talking about, has approached
Speaker 1: her and tried to, you know, see what's up or whatever,
Speaker 1: and she probably turned down certain individuals like that. Now,
Speaker 1: I thought what was hilarious was a video that a
Speaker 1: Yalla van Zant did and she didn't get to finish
Speaker 1: the video, or maybe she did, but I saw the
Speaker 1: tagline because she got distracted by some of chin hair,
Speaker 1: so she never finished the video, but it looked like
Speaker 1: she was about to talk about the situation again, and
Speaker 1: on the bottom it said, the question is whether or
Speaker 1: not the bus driver will date you. I and so
Speaker 1: that brings me to my mid So I'm saying that
Speaker 1: I see points in all sides, right, because I too
Speaker 1: do not want to date anybody that I have to
Speaker 1: take them and dust them off and create so and so.
Speaker 1: But who am I to assume that a bus driver
Speaker 1: would be that there might be a bus driver out here.
Speaker 1: But I get her concept. I get what she's trying
Speaker 1: to say. I do think to your point that it
Speaker 1: went in the wrong direction, because the point is that
Speaker 1: there are a lot of successful women who are constantly
Speaker 1: having to deal with people that we meet that can't
Speaker 1: really do much for us and emotionally or financially, and
Speaker 1: it is a struggle that we face. But the bigger
Speaker 1: struggle that I know exists is having the rich man
Speaker 1: or the man not in my life. So let me
Speaker 1: be clear, Because I had and still am very very
Speaker 1: dear and close to a very wealthy man that I
Speaker 1: was with for over ten years and he treated me
Speaker 1: like a queen. It just time, you know, life happens
Speaker 1: and people go in their separate directions. But I can't
Speaker 1: sing and say anything nasty by him. However, I have
Speaker 1: been approached by many men who have extreme resources, and
Speaker 1: they're narcissists, They're nasty, their liars, their cheaters, they're all
Speaker 1: types of things. So I wouldn't typecast anybody because I
Speaker 1: know bus drivers that are amazing in terms of how
Speaker 1: they love their wives, their families, how they stand up
Speaker 1: in their communities. And I do believe that as a woman,
Speaker 1: a part of what makes us who we are is
Speaker 1: the ability to help build an empire with your man
Speaker 1: who might be a bus driver, and so long as
Speaker 1: he has the ambition, he don't got to own the
Speaker 1: bus company at the time, but it certainly should be
Speaker 1: a goal of ours. And I should be able to
Speaker 1: look at this man and say he has the potential,
Speaker 1: the drive, the passion, the work, you know, work hard,
Speaker 1: all those things, the work ethic, and me, with my
Speaker 1: skills and my belief in him and all the things
Speaker 1: that I have together, we can own the bus company.
Speaker 1: That's the way that I see it. So just to
Speaker 1: be clear, I don't I wouldn't say that the only
Speaker 1: way O would data bus driver is if he owns
Speaker 1: the bus company. But I do understand the challenge that
Speaker 1: many successful black women are facing where it is very
Speaker 1: difficult for us to find people who are compatible with us.
Speaker 1: So all I was saying is that there's no one
Speaker 1: clear cut answer except that, yes, if the bus driver
Speaker 1: approached me and I saw in him the passion and
Speaker 1: all the things that I am looking for in a man,
Speaker 1: one hundred percent, because I know that I as a
Speaker 1: black woman who is strong and skillful and has resources,
Speaker 1: I know that the partner that I find that has
Speaker 1: the wherewithal and the passion and everything again the work
Speaker 1: ethic to build with me. We can own not just
Speaker 1: one bus company, when we can own the bus company,
Speaker 1: the private car service, the this, the that, and all
Speaker 1: types of things if we can build, So would I
Speaker 1: feel differently about that? But I know it's a challenge
Speaker 1: to find compatible men, not just black, not just whatever,
Speaker 1: compatible men who also are of sound character for us today.
Speaker 1: That's all I'm saying.
Speaker 2: I get it.
Speaker 3: I get it, So listen to you got to listen
Speaker 3: to the interview and then you have a better understanding
Speaker 3: of this my position or.
Speaker 2: What it is, because because I.
Speaker 1: Agree disagree with your position.
Speaker 2: No, No, I'm not saying we're not under saying just
Speaker 2: so you just have.
Speaker 1: Content that a better understanding. And I'm saying that whether
Speaker 1: I have a listen to the video or not, I
Speaker 1: hear what you're saying. But I do think that there
Speaker 1: are moments when you say something and you mean it
Speaker 1: and you don't care what happens.
Speaker 3: And that's fine, and that's what That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: I think that that should have been more of a
Speaker 3: position in this situation. I think that she she she
Speaker 3: brought into so many different factors and she she brought
Speaker 3: in a conversation that was really an individual choice, right,
Speaker 3: and she made she brought in it, and she brought
Speaker 3: different factors that didn't coincide with her original point was.
Speaker 2: And I think that's what it was to me. So
Speaker 2: you if you if your preference is.
Speaker 3: You don't want to date the bus driver and you
Speaker 3: want to date this type of individual, that's fine, and
Speaker 3: nobody can't take you from that, and nobody can make
Speaker 3: you you don't.
Speaker 1: Want to day Yeah, I mean, okay, well you know
Speaker 1: some people, some people don't feel as fine. But anyway,
Speaker 1: I have not had a chance to sit and listen
Speaker 1: to the interviews because I have been spending a great
Speaker 1: deal of time really trying to understand the full situation
Speaker 1: with Jordan and Neely. And I don't mean the full
Speaker 1: situation as in he was choked by a white man
Speaker 1: and held down by to other individuals on the train.
Speaker 1: That's understanding all of that is one part, but understanding
Speaker 1: more about who he is and more over, trying to
Speaker 1: understand why at this point, which, by the way, for
Speaker 1: those who are listening and those who are watching, we
Speaker 1: are taping our shows, taping street politicians. We are taping
Speaker 1: street politicians days before you all will see it. I
Speaker 1: talk about this all the time, but repetition is important.
Speaker 1: So we filmed you know, when our guests are available,
Speaker 1: and our schedules and what have you. And therefore, as
Speaker 1: we are sitting down today, there's still not been an
Speaker 1: indictment of the man who is seen in the video
Speaker 1: that is now viral choking Jordan Mealy to death, nor
Speaker 1: the other two individuals, one who's a person of color
Speaker 1: and another white man who held him down while he
Speaker 1: was being killed. And so at this point we're speaking
Speaker 1: from that perspective, and so we don't know the name
Speaker 1: of this formal marine, which is interesting because if people
Speaker 1: now know that he's a former marine, and I see
Speaker 1: it in actual articles, news articles, it says that he's
Speaker 1: a former marine, that means they have to know who
Speaker 1: he is, because you can't say that somebody is a
Speaker 1: former marine if you don't know who they are. You
Speaker 1: gotta know. And for whatever reason, the media has refused
Speaker 1: to put out his name as of today. Why why
Speaker 1: do they not have a problem putting out our names
Speaker 1: all the time, telling you everything about our background down
Speaker 1: to when we was two years old and spit on
Speaker 1: a sidewalk.
Speaker 2: That's the fact. You know, the situation was crazy.
Speaker 3: Like you said, I really just wanted to understand, and
Speaker 3: like I was saying I was saying to you earlier,
Speaker 3: the broader conversation for me is what do we as
Speaker 3: just civilians, you know, just just people from the community.
Speaker 3: What are we just allowing to happen in our communities?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: The fact that a man was just sitting there for
Speaker 3: fifteen minutes, just choking another man, I don't know what
Speaker 3: it is.
Speaker 1: For fifteen minutes people, it was five.
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, even if you just choking somebody for five minutes,
Speaker 3: like at some point when you see like it's a
Speaker 3: lot of homelessness in the trend, and it's a lot
Speaker 3: of mental health on the train. And I don't know
Speaker 3: if he needed to be subdued. I don't know if
Speaker 3: he did something that, you know, people felt threatened. And
Speaker 3: I'm not saying that the immediate you're holding over him,
Speaker 3: putting them, But when you start choking somebody, and as
Speaker 3: an ex marine, you know that you could take their life,
Speaker 3: you know, and you have a skill set and understanding
Speaker 3: about these particular holes that you could take somebody's life, right,
Speaker 3: And then people looking on and the people who were
Speaker 3: there with him, I just don't know how somebody that said, okay,
Speaker 3: just get off and just get up his neck. We
Speaker 3: got him, you know, just hold him, let's hold him here,
Speaker 3: don't choke him.
Speaker 2: We don't. We're not trying to kill.
Speaker 3: Like, I don't understand why there's no more, no more
Speaker 3: of a value for life. There's there's a less value
Speaker 3: for life. There's a less value for hurting and harming people.
Speaker 3: People are getting numb to hurting and harming people. They
Speaker 3: they become accustomed to this level of aggression and violence.
Speaker 3: And it's just like, I want to know, how do
Speaker 3: we get so far from consciousness.
Speaker 2: You know, that's that's a question for me. It's just
Speaker 2: like people hold cameras.
Speaker 3: They can sit there and see somebody, damn the choking
Speaker 3: to death, and you just holding a camera.
Speaker 2: You ain't saying what I'm just saying.
Speaker 3: But when the process of him getting to choke to
Speaker 3: death there was a process that got did you understand?
Speaker 1: So I I agree with you that the videotape and
Speaker 1: is triggering for me, right sometimes. But I do have
Speaker 1: a different perspective on this because the person who was
Speaker 1: video on, who had a very steady hand, is a journalist, right,
Speaker 1: who reports the news, and and he or she they
Speaker 1: I think it's a he I have the only account
Speaker 1: of what took place, right, And sometimes when you are
Speaker 1: actually in the incident, when you like when you are
Speaker 1: a party to the incident happening, your statement of what
Speaker 1: took place is one scrutinized and potentially debunked and what
Speaker 1: have you. And also you don't know all everything that's
Speaker 1: going on, can't see everything, and don't necessarily have all
Speaker 1: of the facts straight either, right, So I appreciate the
Speaker 1: fact that this man or this person, this journalist, was
Speaker 1: able to get a clear cut video and also has
Speaker 1: made a very clear, at this point unchallenged statement about
Speaker 1: what took place, which is he said that Jordan Neely
Speaker 1: got on the train and said, I'm hungry, I'm thirsty,
Speaker 1: I'm tired, and I don't care if I go to
Speaker 1: jail with some expletives in the middle of all of that, right,
Speaker 1: and then he took his jacket and threw it to
Speaker 1: the ground, and he said that the white man walked
Speaker 1: up behind his back and grabbed him, took him down
Speaker 1: to the ground, and then we see what happened on
Speaker 1: the video thereafter.
Speaker 2: That's crazy.
Speaker 1: So this is what he said, right, So I read
Speaker 1: with you about the video thing. I'm just trying to
Speaker 1: make sure that we put into proper context. Why it's
Speaker 1: also important that we have a very neutral, uninvolved person
Speaker 1: who is just filming and just reporting on what took
Speaker 1: place to prove what I believe already, because and I
Speaker 1: am listen my text messages from people sending me screenshots
Speaker 1: of other people's text mess because everybody knows not to
Speaker 1: text me and to try to make excuses for what
Speaker 1: happened to Jordan Neely. But people are having conversations. The
Speaker 1: amount of people who are devastated, stressed out, scared to
Speaker 1: death and everything else of the train because of the
Speaker 1: crazy stuff that's going on. People getting spit in the face,
Speaker 1: houseless or unhoused individuals, or people in general because you
Speaker 1: don't know if they're unhoused or not, exposing themselves, hitting people,
Speaker 1: throwing people in front of the train, on the train tracks,
Speaker 1: stabbing people. All of these things are real. They're real concerns,
Speaker 1: and they're real problems. And I see people in my
Speaker 1: comments who are like, you don't know anything about the
Speaker 1: train unless you live in New York and ride. Y'all
Speaker 1: have been riding the train my whole entire life. Okay,
Speaker 1: don't ride the train today, partially not even because of myself,
Speaker 1: but because y'all have pretty much banned me from going
Speaker 1: on the train since you know, at this point, people
Speaker 1: know me. And if I'm by myself, if I were
Speaker 1: two or three people and we need to get from
Speaker 1: one stop to the next in Manhattan, there's no way
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be like, oh, we're gonna get in an
Speaker 1: uber and either pay the money or deal with the
Speaker 1: traffic we getting on the train. But by myself, I
Speaker 1: rode the train, and you know that up until maybe
Speaker 1: about a year or so ago, well around COVID, I
Speaker 1: was riding the train up and down, taking the Metro
Speaker 1: North to the Then I would get on and by
Speaker 1: the way, people on the Metro North be bugging too.
Speaker 1: But taking the Metro North and then getting on the
Speaker 1: regular train to cross over the shuttles, walking through forty
Speaker 1: second Street, walking through a lot of different places and
Speaker 1: taking the number five than the two train uptown or whatever.
Speaker 1: I did that. So you can't tell me I know
Speaker 1: the trains are crazy. What I'm saying is that you
Speaker 1: don't get to kill somebody because we know how the
Speaker 1: trains are. Well, we know how the trains are in quotes,
Speaker 1: we know how the trains are. So therefore you get
Speaker 1: to kill a person because he was saying things you
Speaker 1: didn't like and screaming in a way that you felt uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: If that's the case, fuck it, people could just do whatever.
Speaker 1: I've been making the case all day. If that's the case,
Speaker 1: then we should not lock Pooky up for shooting John John,
Speaker 1: because John John is dangerous. He'dnet have been to jail,
Speaker 1: he'dne made me afraid. The community is it is violence
Speaker 1: everywhere everybody is scared, and he said some ship maybe
Speaker 1: to me about me, or he just got came outside
Speaker 1: and was like, I'm aa, fuck everybody up, wait till
Speaker 1: you see me, And then I just why can't I
Speaker 1: show him?
Speaker 2: No, You're right? I will.
Speaker 3: I will say that in these times, if a person
Speaker 3: got on the train and set all of that and
Speaker 3: looked kind of deranged, right, I would have probably I
Speaker 3: would have been aware, right, and I wouldn't have been
Speaker 3: I wouldn't have been opposed to somebody holding him, restraining
Speaker 3: him to make sure he didn't have a gun that
Speaker 3: he played in an open fire on the train.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't have been opposed to that, right, I wouldn't.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't.
Speaker 3: I would definitely would not have been opposed because if
Speaker 3: you get on the train and we've seen people shooting
Speaker 3: up the trains and all that, so if you get
Speaker 3: on there and you speaking and you saying you know
Speaker 3: your foot well going to jail.
Speaker 2: I got to make sure you don't gotta go.
Speaker 1: Okay, but I don't need to choke.
Speaker 2: What I'm trying to say is I hear you don't
Speaker 2: need to choke you.
Speaker 3: It hurts you to make you like once I grab you,
Speaker 3: and I'm like, yo, somebody make sure you don't got
Speaker 3: done in this podcast, because maybe that's what but choking
Speaker 3: a man to death who has done no physical harm
Speaker 3: to anybody, who has just said words, just because you
Speaker 3: you harm that man, you assaulted that man, You're to
Speaker 3: see what I'm saying, and then you take his life,
Speaker 3: and so you killed that man.
Speaker 1: And that's and that's what I'm saying. I'm saying so
Speaker 1: that we're clear that maybe you did feel threatened, because
Speaker 1: I understand that the train is threatening, I get it.
Speaker 1: All I'm saying is that the fact that that man
Speaker 1: is dead and I don't have any example of physical
Speaker 1: brutal violence, bloodshed, almost bloodshed, I can't accept it. Just
Speaker 1: be talking about mental health, and it is Mental Health
Speaker 1: Awareness Month and we're focused on mental health for the
Speaker 1: rest of the month. And obviously mental health is at
Speaker 1: the center of this discussion. But so many others shooting
Speaker 1: in Atlanta, I mean, just too many things happening. We
Speaker 1: are having a gain come on, and I think we
Speaker 1: should take the rest of our time to bring our
Speaker 1: guests on because we run out my mouse too much
Speaker 1: and we never get to do some of the stuff
Speaker 1: we're supposed to do on the show. So let's introduce
Speaker 1: the guests into the conversation. So we have been joined
Speaker 1: by yesterday. That is really, really someone important to me
Speaker 1: in my life because he is helping me to keep
Speaker 1: my mind in order with all of the just wild
Speaker 1: things that's happening in our society. You know that I
Speaker 1: have been doing trauma work unfortunately for a long, long
Speaker 1: long time, and you've joined me on this journey and
Speaker 1: it is mentally taxing not to mention all the personal
Speaker 1: stuff that we have to deal with in our lives.
Speaker 1: And so my doctor is joining us today and that's
Speaker 1: doctor Michael Practice. So let me just tell you about
Speaker 1: how much of a boss he is because beyond just
Speaker 1: being you know, which I think is pretty important, just
Speaker 1: being doctor, but he has some other very very impressive
Speaker 1: things that he has done. He's a psychiatrist by trade
Speaker 1: and has also had deep study in neurology. So psychiatrists
Speaker 1: and a neurologist, which you know, we folks don't understand
Speaker 1: that it's important to understand the brain and how things
Speaker 1: operate and what triggers people in order to be a
Speaker 1: good psychiatrist and doctor dealing with mental health issues. And
Speaker 1: then he's worked with the New York State Commission of Correction.
Speaker 1: Uh and so we know, we know how serious it
Speaker 1: is that we have people in the system in New
Speaker 1: York who are black, black men working with and you know,
Speaker 1: trying to help make some some changes within the system.
Speaker 1: He's worked at Saint John's Hospital, has been in the
Speaker 1: psych emergency room department, and has a host of clients,
Speaker 1: including young children. So I want folks to know that
Speaker 1: we didn't just go fine to Meeka's doctor, who's just
Speaker 1: a regular guy that you know, does some things. Know,
Speaker 1: this man is celebrated, decorated, and has a very long
Speaker 1: history in dealing with the mental health of so many
Speaker 1: people and especially us as African Americans. So I'm proud
Speaker 1: today to introduce to some people my son and I
Speaker 1: know you well, Michael Praz Thank.
Speaker 4: You so much.
Speaker 2: Peace. How are you feeling today, man?
Speaker 4: Feeling enthusiastic?
Speaker 3: So, yeah, that's that's good. I wouldn't feel like that.
Speaker 3: I've been There's been so much going on, you know.
Speaker 3: I want to ask you a question. Being at his
Speaker 3: Mental health Awareness month, you know, and we just had
Speaker 3: this situation on the train that just happened with Jordan
Speaker 3: nearly and the train station seems like it is overloaded
Speaker 3: with mental health issues, you know, and people who have
Speaker 3: mental health issues. It's like so many people on the trains.
Speaker 3: That's one of the major things that we talk about
Speaker 3: and we hear a bond the trains.
Speaker 2: What is your take on.
Speaker 1: Can we also just say, because I want to make
Speaker 1: sure that people do not believe or do not walk
Speaker 1: away with the narrative that just the people that you
Speaker 1: see sleeping on the train yelling out people who are
Speaker 1: on house that they are the only ones that are
Speaker 1: having mental health issues on the train. You can see
Speaker 1: people who are professionally dressed and look like they got
Speaker 1: it going on, who are also dealing with mental health challenges.
Speaker 2: Sure.
Speaker 4: Yeah, mental health challenges is a very broad category and
Speaker 4: it's a spectrum. It goes from you know, highly functioning
Speaker 4: people who may just have a little bit of anxiety
Speaker 4: down to people with significant what we call serious and
Speaker 4: persistent mental illness. Are one the majority of people with
Speaker 4: mental illness are not aggressive. They actually are disproportionately victimized,
Speaker 4: So it's really important that we maintain compassion. These are
Speaker 4: individuals who have impaired thinking, their thought process, their ability
Speaker 4: to solve problems is impaired, and so what you'll find
Speaker 4: is more basic instincts like wanting to be warm versus
Speaker 4: being cold, wanting to feel dry versus being wet. And
Speaker 4: so a place like a subway is a dormitory in
Speaker 4: a sense, it's a shelter as compared to being on
Speaker 4: the street. So what we could do is use these
Speaker 4: places that naturally attract folks who are having difficulty making decisions,
Speaker 4: and we can put people in those places to act
Speaker 4: as monitors, act as folks who could potentially provide a service.
Speaker 4: And so we should number one, think about bringing the
Speaker 4: service to the people because services has already existed in
Speaker 4: New York and so there is no shortage of doctors.
Speaker 4: Now there may be a weight or an appointment, but
Speaker 4: anyone who sort of really wants mental health and has
Speaker 4: the ability to pay for it can get it. So
Speaker 4: now we're talking about people who either don't have the
Speaker 4: ability to pay for it or don't have access to it.
Speaker 4: Where we need to be looking to lower the burden
Speaker 4: of access to care, moving care to places where people
Speaker 4: are to homeless, shelters to bus terminals, subway stations, et cetera.
Speaker 1: So you're saying that you support having actual practitioners if
Speaker 1: you will in the train station, maybe riding the trains,
Speaker 1: to work with and talk to individuals. And now the
Speaker 1: next question is going to be I'm sure, because we've
Speaker 1: got a certain type of audience. Some of them are
Speaker 1: semi or want to be bougie or very bougie or
Speaker 1: the spectrum. They will say that what happens to that
Speaker 1: mental health professional if a problem breaks out? How do
Speaker 1: they deal with their own safety?
Speaker 4: Sure, the way we have dealt with safety issues involving
Speaker 4: mental health employees of folks who deliver care is with
Speaker 4: law enforcement. That's not necessarily the best tool, but that
Speaker 4: is what is existing today. If you go into a
Speaker 4: psychiatric emergency room and you're unable to contain yourself, security
Speaker 4: will physically help you out of that situation, and so
Speaker 4: it does. Unfortunately, sometimes folks will need hands on. But
Speaker 4: I would feel more comfortable if that the entire interaction
Speaker 4: was based on a mental health call rather than a
Speaker 4: criminal call. I think the police officers may have a
Speaker 4: slightly different attitude toward training, toward responding toward emotional crisis,
Speaker 4: which is different than law enforcement where you want right
Speaker 4: to force a person to comply. Many times people having
Speaker 4: a mental health crisis aren't thinking clearly, and they don't
Speaker 4: even understand the demands that you're putting on them. They
Speaker 4: either don't understand it or in some way they're paranoid
Speaker 4: or having some other kind of interpretation of what you're saying,
Speaker 4: and so in their mind they may be responding appropriately.
Speaker 4: And if your goal as a police officer is to
Speaker 4: simply enforce the commands that you're giving, you're going to
Speaker 4: have a lot of conflict and hurt people. So I'm
Speaker 4: advocating for bringing services to places where you find people
Speaker 4: who need those services. That's what I'm advocating for. The
Speaker 4: specifics of that will need to be flushed out.
Speaker 3: So when we look at you know, when we look
Speaker 3: at this situation in general, right and we see we
Speaker 3: from the reports that we were getting, what happened to
Speaker 3: the man?
Speaker 2: They said, they say that he came onto the train
Speaker 2: and he was very all right.
Speaker 3: He said he was hungry, he said he was tired,
Speaker 3: and he then Kivy went to jail. And how would
Speaker 3: you tell just the average citizen, because a lot of
Speaker 3: average citizens are just scared. You know when you see
Speaker 3: someone in that mental capacity, like we don't. We're not trained,
Speaker 3: So sometimes we might need to hear from people like
Speaker 3: yourself that would know what to do in that situation.
Speaker 3: What would you advise in situations like that?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I have a couple of thoughts. One is it
Speaker 4: is unfortunate that people are so scared, but part of
Speaker 4: that is our fault. When we let the most needy,
Speaker 4: the most mentally unstable people go without services and go
Speaker 4: untreated in our community and they act out as they're
Speaker 4: trying to put two and two together, it does impact
Speaker 4: the citizens of that neighborhood and then they do react
Speaker 4: in a way that is more scared. But that is
Speaker 4: largely on our failure to address the undercare of these people.
Speaker 4: So let's get that point out there first. So people
Speaker 4: are now reacting to the fact that they know their
Speaker 4: untreated mental health of individuals wandering around without access to care.
Speaker 2: That should.
Speaker 4: Make all of us a little hesitant. So what you
Speaker 4: want to do is always be a safe distance from someone.
Speaker 4: And what I would like is for us for our
Speaker 4: citizens to have access to be able to have a
Speaker 4: number to call. Maybe you know, we say see something,
Speaker 4: say something, Maybe we make a big push to help
Speaker 4: our folks who seem to be in need. If you
Speaker 4: see someone who seems to be having an emotional meltdown,
Speaker 4: you can call this number or you can do that
Speaker 4: and people who are competent in that area can respond
Speaker 4: or could respond.
Speaker 1: Would you approach a person like that? Just you being?
Speaker 1: I mean, I know you. So you go up to
Speaker 1: young kids in the park that could be fighting, it
Speaker 1: looks like it's going to get violent, and you may
Speaker 1: go up to them and try to help to de escalate.
Speaker 1: But in that situation, do you, or any situations like that,
Speaker 1: would you feel comfortable approaching them? Or would you try
Speaker 1: to just keep everybody else around calm to let that,
Speaker 1: you know, to maybe get off the train at the
Speaker 1: next stop, Like, how would you handle it?
Speaker 4: Yeah? I think you know, those kind of common sense
Speaker 4: solutions are what I would advocate for. But I guess
Speaker 4: the starting position that here's another human being who is
Speaker 4: in distress us, and there's nothing wrong with asking, hey,
Speaker 4: is there something? Is there something I can do? Are
Speaker 4: you okay? There's nothing wrong with having a conversation from
Speaker 4: a safe distance, which is about how the distance for
Speaker 4: you to get hit. You want to sort of stay
Speaker 4: out out of that striking range. So I don't find
Speaker 4: there's anything wrong with if it seems appropriate to see
Speaker 4: if a person needs help. I don't see anything wrong
Speaker 4: with if that person responds to you in a positive way.
Speaker 4: You got to be careful. Sometimes I talk to folks
Speaker 4: as a professional and they start to escalate, and then
Speaker 4: I know to back away, which is sort of opposite
Speaker 4: of what sort of law enforcement and other people are trained.
Speaker 4: When you resist, they sort of push up the force,
Speaker 4: whereas when folks with mental health issues push back, we
Speaker 4: really back away and give them room. Yeah, I would
Speaker 4: encourage people around to calm down, maybe give this man
Speaker 4: some room to see if he would get off at
Speaker 4: the next stop. I don't think there's anything wrong with
Speaker 4: saying something kind or hair Are you okay?
Speaker 2: Oh no? So I was about to ask two questions.
Speaker 3: There was there was a procedure of process that you
Speaker 3: you were discussing with us before we started. I want
Speaker 3: you to go into that because I think that was
Speaker 3: pretty much brilliance. And maybe this is kind of along
Speaker 3: the same lines. But I think since we see, like
Speaker 3: you said that the train station is sort of like
Speaker 3: a dormitory from people who are experiencing mental health, why
Speaker 3: it would be common sense to me that we have
Speaker 3: mental health workers within the MTA and stops alone.
Speaker 2: We got so many cops, right. The thing is this, we.
Speaker 3: We America has said that we could just put cops
Speaker 3: everywhere and it's gonna stop very So if we got
Speaker 3: three cops, why not have one cop or maybe two cops.
Speaker 2: In a mental health worker at every station that they
Speaker 2: can talk to me.
Speaker 3: Because people are experiencing mental health more then they have it.
Speaker 2: Then the violence in the front.
Speaker 3: Most of those things are as a result, in my
Speaker 3: mind or what I believe, as a result of people
Speaker 3: dealing with mental health issues.
Speaker 2: So do you think that would be, you know, a
Speaker 2: good solution.
Speaker 4: I think that would be an excellent solution in a
Speaker 4: in a more ideal setting. And I don't want to
Speaker 4: be jaded, but the reality is, the budgets, from my understanding,
Speaker 4: you know, don't have a lot of extra room to
Speaker 4: hire a bunch of new folks. Would that be better?
Speaker 4: It would be better. But there are some solutions and
Speaker 4: ideas that are currently in place. If we approached and
Speaker 4: looked at the laws maybe a little bit differently. So
Speaker 4: I'll tell you new York is different than most states,
Speaker 4: and that we have designated psychiatric emergency room called CPEP
Speaker 4: or Comprehensive Psychiatric Right Emergency Programs. These are places, they're dedicated, freestanding.
Speaker 4: There's one at Bellevue, King's County and the Bronx, multiple
Speaker 4: places throughout the city, all through upstate New York. They're
Speaker 4: based upon the population to serve a certain number of people.
Speaker 4: These facilities have the ability to evaluate people twenty four
Speaker 4: to seven and keep people in the hospital if and
Speaker 4: give them the care that they need. The problem is
Speaker 4: how do you get someone there? And the way that
Speaker 4: the laws set now and this already exists, if a
Speaker 4: family member or I can even do this for one
Speaker 4: of my patients, I could write what's called a pickup
Speaker 4: order saying that I empower the whoever whatever law enforcement
Speaker 4: officer comes across this person, that I put on the
Speaker 4: paper to take that person to the nearest psychiatric emergency room. Right,
Speaker 4: and that pickup order already empowers any law enforcement agency
Speaker 4: to not only pick the person up, but take them
Speaker 4: to get care. The problem is that it's a reactionary law.
Speaker 4: It has to be implemented, and so I've been trying
Speaker 4: to push for the idea to see if we couldn't
Speaker 4: get our mayor to see if in a legal way,
Speaker 4: we can't empower our law enforcement agents already given the
Speaker 4: fact that this is a crisis and therefore identifying someone
Speaker 4: who's clearly in an emotional decompensated state can be then
Speaker 4: taken to a psychiatric emergency room. The excuse has been
Speaker 4: they're not committing a crime, I can't arrest them. You
Speaker 4: don't just arrest people. You also, when engaged, can act
Speaker 4: as a transporter to a mental health facility. This already exists,
Speaker 4: and it should be enacted in a proactive way. And
Speaker 4: what you would see is, and again officers would need
Speaker 4: more training. More folks would need more training. But as
Speaker 4: you see typical symptoms of someone who's in distress, that
Speaker 4: that police officer will be able to take that person
Speaker 4: into care immediately.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: It's so I'm listening to everything you're saying, and I
Speaker 1: hear it, and it's right right. It sounds right like
Speaker 1: we've got to be able to transport people, which I
Speaker 1: guess was the initial concept that Eric Adams, Mayor Adams
Speaker 1: and New York was talking about having people remove from
Speaker 1: you know, wherever outsleeping outside, outside of businesses, on the
Speaker 1: train and taken to a facility so that they can
Speaker 1: get help. Sometimes the way in which Mayor Adams speaks
Speaker 1: his tone, people don't like it, you know, and even
Speaker 1: I have felt uncomfortable with the way in which things
Speaker 1: are said and how you lead, right because people want
Speaker 1: to hear compassion, especially when you're talking about very very
Speaker 1: very vulnerable, a very very vulnerable part of the population,
Speaker 1: which sometimes it could be black men that we're talking
Speaker 1: about in poerals that are not unhoused, or you know,
Speaker 1: black children or whatever. We want you to lead with
Speaker 1: so much compassion first and then get to the part
Speaker 1: about is what are the steps so I hear you.
Speaker 1: What I'm challenged with is how the systems in America
Speaker 1: and in New York and across this country have failed
Speaker 1: black and brown people so much. And because we are
Speaker 1: the ones who have the most visible signs of all
Speaker 1: the things, you know, and that's everything, every statistic, every
Speaker 1: health concern, every challenge, we have the most visible because
Speaker 1: we have the most poverty, and therefore most of us
Speaker 1: are the ones on the train having the mental health issues,
Speaker 1: meeting housing and what happened, it is very scary for
Speaker 1: people to even consider supporting a plan for the same
Speaker 1: officers who, even when folks are not having mental health
Speaker 1: to would have to engage them. So it's like, how
Speaker 1: do we ever move the car?
Speaker 2: Sure?
Speaker 4: So, you know, let's just be really clear, we uh
Speaker 4: as as black folks have survived this genocide attempt, you know,
Speaker 4: throughout throughout history, and we have suffered the consequences of
Speaker 4: you know, systemic racism, and so you do see a
Speaker 4: disproportion of amount of men separated from their families and
Speaker 4: in poverty secondary to hundreds of years of just racism
Speaker 4: and discrimination. When you combine that with the fact that
Speaker 4: due to racism and discrimination, symptoms that are presented to
Speaker 4: individuals who don't usually work with black folks are largely misinterpreted,
Speaker 4: and you see higher rates of inaccurate diagnosis, incorrect medications.
Speaker 4: They tend to over prescribe for black boys. Any child
Speaker 4: that's in any system, whether it's shild protect or foster care,
Speaker 4: any or whatever, is four times more likely to be
Speaker 4: on a psychotropic medication. Unnecessarily. I spent a lot of
Speaker 4: my time taking kids off of medication, and so that's
Speaker 4: the consequence of race. The current crisis that we have
Speaker 4: requires us to do something. And what I am proposing is, yes,
Speaker 4: our police officers have many, many, many challenges, and it
Speaker 4: is yet another burden. But what I'm saying to me
Speaker 4: is this, this system is already in place, and we
Speaker 4: can turn this on today. This would serve to bring people.
Speaker 4: What I'm advocating for is if you see someone in distress,
Speaker 4: and again these officers would need to be trained on this,
Speaker 4: and it seems reasonable, you would bring them to the
Speaker 4: SEAPEP and then the officer is gone. Now the patient
Speaker 4: is in my care. Now I can go in and
Speaker 4: do a psychiatric evaluation. And if you don't need to
Speaker 4: be in a psychiatric facility, I'm not going to keep
Speaker 4: you there. But that should be where the that's where
Speaker 4: the mental health people are.
Speaker 2: And so.
Speaker 4: Or maybe we say, hey, it looks like your primary
Speaker 4: issue actually is medical. A lot of times there's sometimes
Speaker 4: there's underlying medical conditions that you're unaware of. When somebody
Speaker 4: has on ten coats and ten pair of pants, you
Speaker 4: don't know what their skin looks like, you don't know
Speaker 4: what that diabetic foot looks like, and they're confused and disoriented. Right,
Speaker 4: so people who are acting in an unsafe way need
Speaker 4: to be evaluated, and right now we have a system
Speaker 4: in place that could function to bring those folks in
Speaker 4: then be handed off to mental health professionals from SEAPEPS.
Speaker 4: And again, my SEAPEP directors are probably going to be
Speaker 4: upset with me, but it would be it would be
Speaker 4: more funding into the SEAPEP to be able to respond
Speaker 4: to these But from there then we could send you
Speaker 4: to a shelter, we could send you to you to
Speaker 4: a rehab, we can get you on you know, if
Speaker 4: you need replacement for heroin addiction. All of that comes
Speaker 4: from SEAPEPS, and it already exists. We already send people
Speaker 4: there today.
Speaker 1: And I guess it might sid I know you wanted
Speaker 1: to jump in, but I guess what I'm saying, which
Speaker 1: we are all saying, is that the transport issue is problematic.
Speaker 1: Just how so, perhaps what we're saying is that there
Speaker 1: has to be a SEAPEP model that is brought to
Speaker 1: the people. I mean, you said that. You started out
Speaker 1: saying we've got to go to where the problem is
Speaker 1: and work with the communities, and that is the same
Speaker 1: sort of model and mentality that we were we work
Speaker 1: under as organizers that we've got to go to where
Speaker 1: the people are and not assume that because we posted
Speaker 1: a thing on social media that folks are going to
Speaker 1: show up, not that because we set up a you know,
Speaker 1: a food pantry at a church or in a building,
Speaker 1: that people are gonna come there to get the services.
Speaker 4: Some people will, some people will were talking about the
Speaker 4: rest that don't.
Speaker 1: Take it to the corner that they walk past frequently,
Speaker 1: maybe even knock on doors to provide those things. And
Speaker 1: I and that would require us to take mental health very,
Speaker 1: very seriously. It would require us to shift funding maybe
Speaker 1: from some places and look at the ways in which
Speaker 1: we fund programs now, because when we say that there
Speaker 1: may or may not be any money, well is we're
Speaker 1: militarizing police every day, We're buying equipment that is so
Speaker 1: expensive that and waits for a potential crisis versus using
Speaker 1: those dollars to deal with housing and health and whatever.
Speaker 1: So that's my little rant in my soapbox. But I
Speaker 1: do have one question because I want to shift because
Speaker 1: I know it's time for you and us to go
Speaker 1: young people. First of all, we saw just here in
Speaker 1: the last few days again mass shootings are happening just often,
Speaker 1: too often. And there's a young man who he shot
Speaker 1: and killed one person, shot several people with I guess
Speaker 1: sixty six people in Atlanta, all women between the ages
Speaker 1: of twenty and seventy. One of the on the younger
Speaker 1: side of that number, a person died, a woman died.
Speaker 1: His mother said he's been a mess since his medicine
Speaker 1: got messed up. There are people listening. I have friends,
Speaker 1: and it's no secret that the reason why you became
Speaker 1: my doctor is because I suffered an addiction issue connected
Speaker 1: to my own mental health challenges, and you walk me
Speaker 1: through that. I have had people doing my hair, doing
Speaker 1: my makeup, doctor Pratz, people helping me, you know, at events.
Speaker 1: Maybe they're the photographer. Since they've heard my story, since
Speaker 1: I've been telling the story, they whisper. They don't say
Speaker 1: it in public. Celebrities send me messages and they say, hey,
Speaker 1: what do I do you know my family member or
Speaker 1: I'm asking for a friend. How did you get off of,
Speaker 1: you know, whatever you were addicted to. I don't always
Speaker 1: have an answer. I don't and I would, you know.
Speaker 1: I'd love for you to talk to those families today
Speaker 1: during mental health Awareness mon we're suppoed to talk about
Speaker 1: young people and black men and somehow we all over here.
Speaker 1: But for people who are listening today mental Health Awareness Month,
Speaker 1: what is the message about how you get your self
Speaker 1: help and or people around you? And just make sure
Speaker 1: as you're talking about this, include a peace about the shame,
Speaker 1: because most people that's what is the barrier for them.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, part of the pressure that's been put
Speaker 4: on us is you got to be twice as good
Speaker 4: where you know, particularly black women are expected to you know,
Speaker 4: function at the highest capacity no matter what they're hired for.
Speaker 4: And so then what ends up happening is the pressure
Speaker 4: that's put on us causes us to neglect our not
Speaker 4: just our mental health care, but also our medical care.
Speaker 4: So you know, our brothers getting their prostate exams and
Speaker 4: their blood pressures and things like that. And so I think,
Speaker 4: first of all, you know, we have to really get
Speaker 4: out of that mindset that we need to be twice
Speaker 4: as good and that we being good doesn't include taking
Speaker 4: care of ourselves. So we need to put self care first.
Speaker 4: I hope that what you'll do is post my book
Speaker 4: on your website is called Mind Matters, a resource guide
Speaker 4: for black people, serving black communities, for black communities. And
Speaker 4: what we do in this book is is really talk
Speaker 4: about mental illness in very plain terms. Anyone can read
Speaker 4: this book. It goes through all of the diagnosis and
Speaker 4: what this would do for you and your family members
Speaker 4: is give you the world. It's in plain language to
Speaker 4: be able to express to your doctor, to your therapist
Speaker 4: what these concerns are. Frequently it seems scary the symptoms.
Speaker 4: They seem, you know, in some way like they I've
Speaker 4: heard people say, oh, they're possessed, or there's something spiritual.
Speaker 4: This is biologically based, and it would help us to
Speaker 4: become more familiar with mental health. It's something that we
Speaker 4: have looked at with shame and embarrassment. I get the
Speaker 4: same thing wherever I go. I give these talks, and
Speaker 4: when I ask people to raise their hand if they
Speaker 4: don't have any issues, no one ever raises their hand.
Speaker 4: But before I could get the door, they're pulling my coat,
Speaker 4: slipping me their number, doing all kinds of things because
Speaker 4: they actually do have this need. So I think that's
Speaker 4: number one. The second point is that mental health services
Speaker 4: are available right now now. A lot of it is online,
Speaker 4: and I do realize it's not as good as face
Speaker 4: to face, but I promise you having a therapist and
Speaker 4: someone to contact online in a crisis is better than
Speaker 4: no one. It's better than no one. So I would
Speaker 4: encourage people to use on some of these online access,
Speaker 4: online access to mental health services and thirty. This is
Speaker 4: just my opinion. We really need to do more in
Speaker 4: the schools. We need to be more leaning more towards
Speaker 4: emotional intelligence. The mental health is of the end of it,
Speaker 4: but we should be picking up kids in the beginning.
Speaker 4: When they're hungry, that's a predictor of mental health. When
Speaker 4: you see they're wearing tattered clothes, that's a predictor of
Speaker 4: mental health. When they're failing their grades before you put
Speaker 4: them in special edg I'm trying to get these kids
Speaker 4: out of special ed. How about we start doing mental
Speaker 4: health evaluations.
Speaker 2: And there you.
Speaker 1: Said, when they're clothes, look like down or whatever, that's
Speaker 1: an indicator.
Speaker 4: That's a future mental health challenge. And I'll tell you what, yes,
Speaker 4: let me speak on that. It's the weakest link when people.
Speaker 4: I'll put it like this, if you look one hundred
Speaker 4: families in distress for whatever reason, and you gave them
Speaker 4: all five thousand dollars not even know what the problem is.
Speaker 4: I guarantee you a lot of them, a lot of
Speaker 4: their situation would improve the arguments the husband, the fighting
Speaker 4: would go away that that night at dinner, you lay
Speaker 4: that five thousand dollarsand table. The husband and wife aren't
Speaker 4: fighting anymore that night. So people under pressure bubble over.
Speaker 4: And so when a kid doesn't have clean clothes or
Speaker 4: enough to eat, it's an indicator that things are not
Speaker 4: adequate in the house. That should call our attention to
Speaker 4: go see why is that mother not bathing that child.
Speaker 4: Maybe she has depression and she's laying in the bed.
Speaker 4: And so that kid, who then is suffering more pressure,
Speaker 4: is more likely to try something for relief, to drink, something,
Speaker 4: to smoke, something, to try some physical harming to make
Speaker 4: themselves feel better, to hide and shame. It's that.
Speaker 3: That's so what I I want to end this pretty
Speaker 3: much with two things I need.
Speaker 2: You to do. I need you give us your back.
Speaker 3: You know, you sound like one of the best psychologists
Speaker 3: I've ever heard yea knowing.
Speaker 2: As an individual, you adope all around individual.
Speaker 3: Let these people how loan you've been studying, you know,
Speaker 3: let them know where they can find you, because we
Speaker 3: need people like you, man, We need people to reach
Speaker 3: out to people like you.
Speaker 4: Well, I'll tell you I grew up in Chicago and
Speaker 4: was struggling myself as a young person and ended up
Speaker 4: going to prison at eighteen years old. And I'll tell
Speaker 4: you that experience has shaped me as a man and
Speaker 4: as a formally incarcerated individual. Has tried to navigate through
Speaker 4: life with this burden of a telony that has I'm
Speaker 4: going to estimate, you know, delayed me probably ten to
Speaker 4: twelve years. Even though I passed all the tests to
Speaker 4: become a doctor, to go to college, I was constantly
Speaker 4: denied and in my pursuit of access to becoming a
Speaker 4: mental health provider.
Speaker 2: Which how long were you? Because I didn't want to
Speaker 2: cut you. No, that's fine.
Speaker 4: I was sitting for four years, and so I did
Speaker 4: about two years.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 3: I never knew that I gotta we gotta do sit
Speaker 3: downs with the stand ups. I need you on my
Speaker 3: sit downs with the stands ups, where we sit down
Speaker 3: and we go from everything about formerly incus rated how
Speaker 3: it's become successful.
Speaker 2: So that's later on.
Speaker 4: But okay, so I got out of believe it or
Speaker 4: not I actually wrote. I was writing letters to colleges
Speaker 4: from prison.
Speaker 2: I was pretty daeved.
Speaker 4: I got accepted in the Berkeley I got out of
Speaker 4: prison I think in July of nineteen eighty seven, and
Speaker 4: within a couple of months I was a freshman at
Speaker 4: Berkeley and studied molecular and cell biology. I then went
Speaker 4: to the University of Southern California. I applied to thirty
Speaker 4: medical schools. I got rejected by twenty eight. Fortunately, the
Speaker 4: University of Southern California saw fit to admit me even
Speaker 4: though you know, I had a felony. So really what
Speaker 4: happened was you need people to give you opportunity, so
Speaker 4: it's so easy that you know this to slam the
Speaker 4: door in your face. So then up coming to New York,
Speaker 4: I trained that sunny downstate for child psychiatry. I trained
Speaker 4: at Monti Fury at the Bronx Psychiatric Center for adult psychiatry.
Speaker 4: So I've always really worked with marginalized people, homeless outreach
Speaker 4: in the city. I was there at nine to eleven,
Speaker 4: volunteered another nine to eleven. So so yeah, I felt like,
Speaker 4: you know, God has really put put a responsibility on me,
Speaker 4: so I give them my time. To formally incarcerated people
Speaker 4: to the black community, to underserve populations, to advocate on
Speaker 4: their behalf because they don't have anybody else to advocate
Speaker 4: for them.
Speaker 2: Well, listen, I truly appreciate you man.
Speaker 3: That I didn't even know that part, but I just
Speaker 3: knew that she was a dope individual, and you know,
Speaker 3: I liked you individual. But now hearing that I get
Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying that it makes me feel
Speaker 3: a lot better because your representation of what formerly incarcerated
Speaker 3: people can do because there's such a stigmas and that
Speaker 3: we are just the words the bottom of the barrel.
Speaker 3: I heard somebody call somebody the bottom of the bartle
Speaker 3: from being incarcerated. So you you represent what someone who
Speaker 3: has the mind and the heart and the energy that
Speaker 3: comes home after being incarcerated and suffering to come home
Speaker 3: and do something successful.
Speaker 2: So I appreciate you.
Speaker 4: Let me give a shout. I got to give a
Speaker 4: shout out to our Governor Kathy Hoko, who, despite me
Speaker 4: having a felony, appointed me to the New York State
Speaker 4: Commission on Corrections. And now I sit in an oversight
Speaker 4: position ensuring that there's no shenanigans happening with our incarcerated
Speaker 4: individuals as far as psychiatric delivery. I also want to
Speaker 4: give a shout out to New York State Senate who
Speaker 4: confirmed me knowing that I was a formerly incarcerated individual.
Speaker 4: So New York State is not just talking about formally
Speaker 4: incarcerated individuals, but actually do on something. And that's an
Speaker 4: example right there.
Speaker 3: That's what I'm talking about, Mike.
Speaker 1: Sometimes sometimes I love New York. Sometimes I don't, you know,
Speaker 1: what is that?
Speaker 2: What does it?
Speaker 1: Mounds? Don't? Okay? One of those things. That's how I
Speaker 1: feel about it. You know, I I am emotional because
Speaker 1: I know all of this stuff, but I didn't know
Speaker 1: what you would bring up today about your background. Some
Speaker 1: people sometimes you do it all the time. Sometimes you don't.
Speaker 1: And I know your story and I know your commitment.
Speaker 1: I know your family. Obviously, your wife Hasani is one
Speaker 1: of my best friends and has mentored me, you know,
Speaker 1: in the political space in New York and beyond. And
Speaker 1: I am just so proud to be friends with you
Speaker 1: all because I know what you do. I know the
Speaker 1: commitment you have. I know that when I'm talking to you,
Speaker 1: I'm speaking to you, not to everybody. My business is
Speaker 1: not being told to the world because that was one
Speaker 1: of the reasons why I've had challenges with with working
Speaker 1: with mental health professionals in the past, because I was
Speaker 1: worried about what they would tell other people. And it
Speaker 1: just has been a pleasure. And if you are someone
Speaker 1: who's listening and trying to get in touch with Michael Pratts,
Speaker 1: and first of all, the information will be included in
Speaker 1: this episode, but please tell folks how to find you,
Speaker 1: and thank you, thank you, thank you for joining Street Politicians.
Speaker 4: Sure, sure, absolutely you can just google my name Michael Pratts.
Speaker 4: I'm listened there. One of the black psychiatrists are Greater
Speaker 4: New York. My contact information is there to mean hopefully
Speaker 4: you'll publish the book on your website. The link to
Speaker 4: that mind Matters a resource guiye right for the black community.
Speaker 4: Plain language. Everyone should read.
Speaker 2: Thank you, appreciate you, thank you.
Speaker 4: Thank you.
Speaker 2: That was excellent.
Speaker 3: And I didn't even know all of those things about Mike,
Speaker 3: say you holding out like I knew you could.
Speaker 1: Sometimes, I mean, we've had people on the show before
Speaker 1: guests that they didn't tell me to bring up that
Speaker 1: they were formally incross rat like. Sometimes people don't want
Speaker 1: to talk about it. Sometimes not because they're ashamed, but
Speaker 1: because if you're talking about the professional work, they don't
Speaker 1: want you to be overhaw. You know.
Speaker 3: So I'm glad that he wears it as a badge
Speaker 3: of honor. And that's what sit Down with the Standums
Speaker 3: is about. It's about highlighting brothers like Michael, like this
Speaker 3: is a successful psychiatrist, someone who is really successful and
Speaker 3: he he he broke down his accolades. He sits on
Speaker 3: the board for formally incarcerated individuals that.
Speaker 1: He was appointed for the commission people.
Speaker 3: Okay, so listen, yeah, for the people for the Department
Speaker 3: of Crisis.
Speaker 2: So that is important.
Speaker 3: It's important that people who are incarcerated or formally incarcerated
Speaker 3: coming home see that, see somebody like him, and say, Wow,
Speaker 3: it's not over for me. Whatever society is saying about
Speaker 3: me is not. And I'm glad that he embraces that. So,
Speaker 3: you know, the interview in itself was dope, but that
Speaker 3: just made it ten times dopeer for me. So definitely
Speaker 3: gonna have him once sit down in the stand ups.
Speaker 3: But on off topic. You know, my my, I don't
Speaker 3: get this a little old topic. I was in sports mode.
Speaker 3: You know, we're in the playoffs. So I just been
Speaker 3: watching sports and I was watching ESPN a couple of
Speaker 3: days ago. You know, Dylan Brooks, Now you don't know
Speaker 3: about them. Dylan Brooks is a player on Memphis. He's
Speaker 3: he likes to trash talk, you know, he gets in
Speaker 3: the heads. He's one of those players that we've been celebrating,
Speaker 3: people like Draymond Green, people like Dennis Rodman, like people
Speaker 3: like Gary Payton.
Speaker 2: These were people that throughout history, you know, they.
Speaker 3: Would trash talk you, they file you hard, and that's
Speaker 3: who they were, you know, and they've been like the
Speaker 3: garbage man, and they've always existed in basketball, you know.
Speaker 3: And a couple of days, the Memphis Grizzlies, who is
Speaker 3: his team, put out a statement saying that they wouldn't
Speaker 3: be inviting him back to play for the team, and
Speaker 3: you know, and I think it was biased. I think
Speaker 3: never before I've seen anything like this, I think because
Speaker 3: you know, Lebron James is pretty much hierarchy, and you know,
Speaker 3: he's like basketball royalty. And he talked, he talked trash
Speaker 3: to Lebron, and Lebron cracked him. So they ended up
Speaker 3: losing the series. But throughout this whole season, he talked
Speaker 3: trash and they were winning. They were a number one seed,
Speaker 3: you know, I mean a number two seed in the West.
Speaker 3: And him talking trash in the level that he played
Speaker 3: hard every game got them to where they was. And
Speaker 3: now that you know, they didn't win and it was publicized.
Speaker 3: You know, what they're doing to this man is something
Speaker 3: I don't get. I don't think it's right to publicly
Speaker 3: embarrass him, you know, try to make him the black sheep.
Speaker 3: He's done nothing that we have not seen throughout history.
Speaker 3: There's been people that I hated, that talk trash, that
Speaker 3: fouled the best players, my favorite players, you know, but
Speaker 3: they served the job, you know, and I don't see
Speaker 3: any He ain't no off the court distraction. You don't
Speaker 3: hear Dylan Brooks then gotten too, no fighter out on
Speaker 3: the street. You know, he ain't out there beating nobody up.
Speaker 3: He ain't doing no gangs and stuff.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: We we see we've been celebrated negativity and people's characters
Speaker 3: and in real life, you know, because they can play basketball,
Speaker 3: they you know, they're good at the sport. But somebody
Speaker 3: who comes to the sport with a little bit of edge,
Speaker 3: who from what we can see, is a decent human
Speaker 3: being you want to shun an embarrassing, you know, for
Speaker 3: having a role that has been celebrated in the NBA
Speaker 3: for years. So I don't really get what it is,
Speaker 3: you know. And I'm not the biggest Dylon Brooks fan.
Speaker 3: I really actually don't really like him much. But I
Speaker 3: think with the NBA and with the Memphis Grizzlies is
Speaker 3: doing to him is wrong.
Speaker 2: And I don't really get it.
Speaker 3: I don't, you know, And I don't know why more
Speaker 3: athletes and players aren't saying what are you saying?
Speaker 2: What's happening to Hima Drone? So I just wanted to
Speaker 2: say that I really just don't get it.
Speaker 1: Well, the whole idea of more people speaking up on
Speaker 1: behalf of folks is it's really the number of people
Speaker 1: who are willing to speak out is dwindling because the
Speaker 1: punishment for using your voice has been scaring people. And
Speaker 1: you can see that, you know, so many have been
Speaker 1: put in their place, they've been demonized, they've lost money,
Speaker 1: and they've lost endorsement deals. And therefore, and I'm not
Speaker 1: just talking about it in sports, just in general, paychecks,
Speaker 1: let me not say endorsements, paychecks and so people have
Speaker 1: become you know, they're worried about themselves, and so, you know,
Speaker 1: I think that's one thing I don't really know obviously
Speaker 1: much about this situation, but what I will say is
Speaker 1: that it seems like, I mean, we're just in a
Speaker 1: sensitive spaces as a society, and you know, I feel
Speaker 1: like I always tell we are all each individual person
Speaker 1: is a walking contradiction because what we don't agree with
Speaker 1: on one hand because of our own personal opinions on
Speaker 1: certain issues, we may support on the other hand, so
Speaker 1: we are not going to allow or certain things. But
Speaker 1: then as the walking contradiction is that on the other side,
Speaker 1: we're like, no, but this shouldn't be an issue. And
Speaker 1: I say that because the sensitivity around trash talk that
Speaker 1: seems to be a new thing within sports. It's triggering
Speaker 1: to a lot of people, Like people on both sides.
Speaker 1: You know, people are like, wait, I don't think we
Speaker 1: should be censoring or not so much censoring, but changing
Speaker 1: the flow of the trash talk and the you know,
Speaker 1: the sort of trolling or whatever you call it, taunting
Speaker 1: or whatever. People don't want that. But then when it's
Speaker 1: not their favor, when it's their favorite team, they're okay
Speaker 1: with it, right when it's their favorite player, they're okay
Speaker 1: with it. So I don't know where this is going
Speaker 1: to go. We have to kind of see the direction
Speaker 1: that this takes on.
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 3: I think social media has has put a highlight on everything,
Speaker 3: and it's allowed people who really don't have any stake
Speaker 3: or anything to dictate the whole structure of everything. So
Speaker 3: if you go online and they see a thousand and
Speaker 3: two thousand people say f Dylan Brooks, then in their mind,
Speaker 3: you know, he's he's a liability to the.
Speaker 2: Team, you know.
Speaker 3: So I think, and that's why I try to tell
Speaker 3: people you can't judge real life on the Internet because
Speaker 3: it really I'm trying to tell it's a fault, it
Speaker 3: is a false meteria, it is really a false meet.
Speaker 3: And we've seen that in a lot of situations with
Speaker 3: court cases and what people were saying and the public
Speaker 3: opinion of what's going on, and then in real life
Speaker 3: we were like, oh, the Internet was trying to tell
Speaker 3: us this, and then when real life happened, it'd be
Speaker 3: completely different. So I just want us not to get
Speaker 3: so caught up and what the internet believes, what the
Speaker 3: Internet tells us, and just start dealing in real life,
Speaker 3: do your own research, fact check things.
Speaker 2: Look, you know, understand the reality of what we're doing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well guess what you got some nerve because the
Speaker 1: people who say the Internet ain't real life, sure enough,
Speaker 1: spend a lot of time on it trying to convince
Speaker 1: people of their opinions. But anyway, I digress.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's not so much trying to convince. It's
Speaker 2: just that what I do make a point.
Speaker 1: If you make a point on the Internet and you
Speaker 1: tell two or three people how you feel, that's fool.
Speaker 1: If you spend hours in a day going back and
Speaker 1: forth in comments with different individuals on different pages, it's
Speaker 1: left your page, now it's on this page, and it's
Speaker 1: hand the third and it said the third. You are
Speaker 1: trying to convince people of your opinion.
Speaker 2: I don't notice that. I'm just. I'm just. I naturally
Speaker 2: like to.
Speaker 1: Debate, But why debate people who are not real life?
Speaker 2: Because for me, I don't think that individuals.
Speaker 3: I don't really think the individuals are real I just
Speaker 3: think that their perspectives are something that might be shared
Speaker 3: with a lot of people. So when they have a perspective,
Speaker 3: I have no problem shooting down the perspective because I
Speaker 3: can answer it.
Speaker 1: We aff.
Speaker 2: I don't okay, we don't agree. Sounds sounds familiar, So listen.
Speaker 3: Man. Shout out to doctor Michael Pratts for his excellent,
Speaker 3: you know, understanding of where we are in society today
Speaker 3: during mental health months. You know, hopefully somebody will listen
Speaker 3: to this hint and take some of his recommendations for
Speaker 3: how we deal with mental health in our society right now.
Speaker 1: But the police, I don't know, like you know, but
Speaker 1: there has to be adjustments made. But I understand from
Speaker 1: his perspective.
Speaker 3: The principle is that those people need help. People need help,
Speaker 3: and we need to be able to get them immediate help.
Speaker 3: And if we allow them to just roam, you know,
Speaker 3: without help, when we have the ability and people you know,
Speaker 3: officers are walk up to you and stopping fresh you anyway, right,
Speaker 3: So if we got stopping fresh and people are getting
Speaker 3: stopping frist every day, and we and we and we
Speaker 3: able to utilize officers to get mental health people the
Speaker 3: help they need by walking up to them and saying, hey,
Speaker 3: we have to take you to a mental health facility
Speaker 3: and it's documented.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know, we're gonna have to talk
Speaker 1: about We have to talk at a whole another day
Speaker 1: about that because and we would have to talk to
Speaker 1: law enforcement in New York, because I don't know how
Speaker 1: you will how in the white community it might work.
Speaker 3: It's like a warrant. It's like a warrant, that's what
Speaker 3: it is. It's like the police to jail. So you
Speaker 3: have a mental health warrant to where we don't take
Speaker 3: you to jail, but we take you to a mental
Speaker 3: facility that can help you because you know it's deemed
Speaker 3: that you need help mentally.
Speaker 1: Get what you're saying. I'm not trying to argue because
Speaker 1: I hear what you're saying. I'm just triggered because I
Speaker 1: know that a lot of people get abused that we
Speaker 1: never hear and see their stories. A lot of people don't.
Speaker 1: More people don't get abused by police than do so
Speaker 1: I'm not you know, we know that that's it.
Speaker 2: More people don't. More people the.
Speaker 1: Situation is resolved, and you know, what have you. But
Speaker 1: they are very egregious acts and cases that cannot be
Speaker 1: ignored because they're not the majority. And so I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think you have to be a certain type of
Speaker 1: officer who sogn up for this and has as you
Speaker 1: were saying about the having a weapon, right, you got
Speaker 1: to be constantly monitored for your behavior. You have to
Speaker 1: have the officer who's standing next to you and other
Speaker 1: individuals they have to be responsible for what you do.
Speaker 1: So if you act out, you and Officer Robbie together
Speaker 1: need to be held responsible for your actions. Like it
Speaker 1: has to be so strict that that's going to be
Speaker 1: the problem because're gonna have a lot of police officers
Speaker 1: that's like, I don't want that responsibility. They know they're
Speaker 1: scrutinizing me too much, So then who does the job?
Speaker 1: I just don't know, That's all I'm saying.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: Well, we'll discuss it further another day. But with that said,
Speaker 3: brings us to the end of another show. Shout out
Speaker 3: to all of our listeners.
Speaker 2: We appreciate you.
Speaker 3: Few politicians, no more podcasts in the world in the
Speaker 3: world continue to hit us up, hit us street politicians.
Speaker 3: Pod Let us know what you love, what you hate,
Speaker 3: what you want to hear, what guests you want us
Speaker 3: to give. We want all of your feedbacks, man, And
Speaker 3: once again, I'm not gonna always be right to mek
Speaker 3: A D. Malories and I can always be wrong, but
Speaker 3: we will both always and I mean always, always, always
Speaker 3: be authentic.
Speaker 1: Paz. Listen to Street Politicians on the Black Effect Network
Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 3: And catch us every single Wednesday for the video version
Speaker 3: of Street Politicians on iwomen dot tv.
Speaker 2: That's how we all