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Speaker 1: So I've really thrilled this afternoon to be joined by
Speaker 1: Francesca Hogy, who I met at a conference. I think
Speaker 1: it was a conference, is that.
Speaker 2: What we I think that's what we call it.
Speaker 1: It was a conference, but it was a conference on atriotism,
Speaker 1: and there was a really unique assemblage of people there
Speaker 1: with a lot of varied backgrounds. And you were there,
Speaker 1: and you are a love coach.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, that was That was a strange room to
Speaker 2: find myself in, for sure, but I was glad to
Speaker 2: be there and glad to meet you. But yes, I
Speaker 2: am a love coach. I help people with love.
Speaker 1: And I think one of the things that was interesting
Speaker 1: about that weekend as the obvious and we'll get into
Speaker 1: talking about what you do who you do it with,
Speaker 1: but love as a concept is elemental to the human condition,
Speaker 1: and that's something that you talked about at the retreat,
Speaker 1: and in the context of patriotism, one of the things
Speaker 1: I've long said and I said there that weekend, is
Speaker 1: that we need a reminder in the country that you
Speaker 1: can't hate half the people in it and love your country.
Speaker 1: And love, whether it's with patriotism, whether it's at an
Speaker 1: individual level, is just elemental to everything else in society working.
Speaker 1: And I've just wanted to ask you, when you think
Speaker 1: about your career track, tell us how you got into
Speaker 1: doing what you do, how you say it what you
Speaker 1: do before we talk about the concept more broadly.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I in my former career, I was a
Speaker 2: corporate lawyer, which is not the world's worst job, but
Speaker 2: it's still was something that I knew that that was
Speaker 2: not what I was on the planet to do. It's
Speaker 2: not what I wanted to do for the rest of
Speaker 2: my life. And love is something that I've always been
Speaker 2: unusually obsessed with. It felt normal to me. But as
Speaker 2: I got older, I said, I don't think other people
Speaker 2: think about love quite as much as I do. And eventually,
Speaker 2: I mean, this is a very very short version. Eventually
Speaker 2: I wound up discovering a matchmaker named Paul Brunson, and
Speaker 2: he is a black man. He had an MBA. He
Speaker 2: was an investment banker, and he left his career to
Speaker 2: start a matchmaking business, and I was very inspired. I
Speaker 2: was like, I'm kind of like him. I saw myself
Speaker 2: in him, and through just following him, I learned that
Speaker 2: this was actually an industry, that there were people whose
Speaker 2: job it was to help other people find love. And
Speaker 2: that was one of the things that was really important
Speaker 2: to me in my career pivot was doing something that
Speaker 2: was really important, like something that was actually really significantly
Speaker 2: going to positively impact people's lives. And I was like, well,
Speaker 2: what's more impactful than love? Right, Like, as you said,
Speaker 2: it's elemental. We're all born knowing how to love. We're
Speaker 2: all born, you know, I consider us all to be
Speaker 2: born love geniuses. And then a lot of that gets
Speaker 2: suppressed through you know, life and childhood and conditioning and
Speaker 2: trauma and all those things. But at our core, you know,
Speaker 2: we all have this drive to love and to be loved,
Speaker 2: and you know, I just once I discovered that I
Speaker 2: could actually help people really tap into that and to
Speaker 2: really embody love and not just think of it as
Speaker 2: even though I focus on romantic love. For people who
Speaker 2: are listening and you've no idea who I am, you know,
Speaker 2: I typically work with people who are single who are
Speaker 2: looking for healthy relationships that last. That's my typical demographic.
Speaker 2: But even within that, you know, a lot of people
Speaker 2: come to me and they're very focused on I want
Speaker 2: to get into relationship. I want to get into a relationship.
Speaker 2: But then ultimately what the real key to them actually
Speaker 2: having that relationship is is having a deeper relationship of
Speaker 2: self love. So when I started, I was very much
Speaker 2: about I'm a matchmaker. I'm just going to introduce everybody to,
Speaker 2: you know, a great partner and they're going to fall
Speaker 2: in love and it's all going to be great. And
Speaker 2: once I got in it, it was like, oh wait,
Speaker 2: there's a lot more to this, and there are a
Speaker 2: lot more layers that people need to really address and
Speaker 2: understanding what love even is and how to actually live
Speaker 2: in love and start there, and then you'll then the
Speaker 2: relationship you want and all of that because comes inevitable
Speaker 2: and just and accepted or expected outcome of just moving
Speaker 2: through the world in a certain way and having that
Speaker 2: intention of Okay, I do want to co create a
Speaker 2: loving relationship with another person.
Speaker 1: So I want to talk about all of that, But
Speaker 1: I want to back up on your career trajectory and
Speaker 1: So take us to that moment where you're going into
Speaker 1: the corporate law firm, your corporate lawyering and doing the
Speaker 1: things that corporate lawyers do, and you have your first moment,
Speaker 1: right and it's you know, you have you have gone
Speaker 1: to law school, you're a lawyer, You've you've studied for
Speaker 1: you've passed the bar. There you are and one day
Speaker 1: this what was it? Is it a moment of doubt
Speaker 1: creeps in? You know, when do you go from first out?
Speaker 1: So I can't do this anymore, Gotta gotta change it
Speaker 1: up because I think a lot of people find themselves there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, especially a lot of lawyers because too many
Speaker 2: people go to law school who shouldn't. But for me,
Speaker 2: it was it took I mean it took some time
Speaker 2: because initially, you're right, I you know, I did all
Speaker 2: the things. I graduated from law school, I passed the bar,
Speaker 2: I was at this you know, great firm in New
Speaker 2: York City, and I was living the dream. You know,
Speaker 2: I'm like, you know, mid twenty six figure salary, town,
Speaker 2: you know, town car home every night, and all of
Speaker 2: these kind of trappings of success that at first you're like,
Speaker 2: oh wow, I made it right, But then after a
Speaker 2: couple of years of that, and a big thing for
Speaker 2: me was that at my firm, I actually had a
Speaker 2: very very good situation because I had one of the
Speaker 2: most senior partners at the firm who was my mentor,
Speaker 2: who I did ninety nine percent of my work directly
Speaker 2: with him, and so I was very protected from a
Speaker 2: lot of the law firm politics and competition because I
Speaker 2: was just sort of in this special category, as you know,
Speaker 2: being this person's associate, and he and I had a
Speaker 2: wonderful relationship, and so I recognized especially compared to all
Speaker 2: of my friends who were lawyers and you know, in
Speaker 2: other professions as well. I was like, I have a
Speaker 2: very very good situation here, and still I don't want
Speaker 2: this is not what I want to do for my life.
Speaker 2: And when I look at when I look at this partner,
Speaker 2: when I look at all the partners, I don't want
Speaker 2: their job, right, And this like when people say when
Speaker 2: you look at your boss, like if you don't want
Speaker 2: your boss's job, then like you might be in the
Speaker 2: wrong job, right, and so like I don't want that.
Speaker 2: So I just have to trust that there's something more
Speaker 2: for me. So my first time that I left the law,
Speaker 2: I left, and actually, because I see I was telling you,
Speaker 2: I told you this short version. But what I actually
Speaker 2: had studied undergrad was TV and film production. And so
Speaker 2: when I first left the law, I started a film
Speaker 2: production company and so I moved from New York to
Speaker 2: LA and I did that for five years with a
Speaker 2: friend of mine from law school. Actually, so it was that.
Speaker 2: And then I went back to the law because.
Speaker 3: I got sucked back in basically because I needed to
Speaker 3: make money, because I wasn't making any money as as
Speaker 3: an independent film producer and that time, and so you
Speaker 3: asked about like that moment, I had a day and
Speaker 3: I went back to New York, you know, back.
Speaker 2: In the whole corporate law grind down car, back in
Speaker 2: the town car exactly, back in eating you know, dinner
Speaker 2: at my at my desk and all of that. And
Speaker 2: I literally, Steve, I walked into the office one morning
Speaker 2: and this has not ever happened to me before and
Speaker 2: or since, I don't think, actually, and it was like
Speaker 2: somebody was whispering, my ear, You're not supposed to be here,
Speaker 2: and it was so loud and it was so alarming
Speaker 2: that I actually had a moment of you know, and
Speaker 2: this is you know, downtown Manhattan, you know Skyscraper, and
Speaker 2: I had a moment of like, is this my intuition
Speaker 2: telling me like there's a terrorist attack? I mean like
Speaker 2: literally that's where I went for a moment. And then
Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, I don't think it's that. I
Speaker 2: don't think I'm in immediate danger, but I just this
Speaker 2: is I've reached the limit of this, Like I this
Speaker 2: stage of being like, I don't know what I'm gonna
Speaker 2: do with my life, so I'm kind of stuck here.
Speaker 2: It's like I'm sick of being stuck, and it's time
Speaker 2: for me to figure it out.
Speaker 1: And you meet this guy who, as you said, is
Speaker 1: a he's a black guy. He's an investment banker, right,
Speaker 1: and so yeah, there's a you know which I put
Speaker 1: like in the very very proximate space right doing more
Speaker 1: employers right, very much walked out of that. He's doing this,
Speaker 1: and this guy's happy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this guy is happy, he's living his best life.
Speaker 2: He's really, you know, very passionate about what he does
Speaker 2: and very successful in all of those things. And so I, yeah,
Speaker 2: I really I saw myself and him. I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: he you know, did the whole good school, fancy degree thing,
Speaker 2: you know, fancy career, and he chose something that seemed crazy,
Speaker 2: and a lot of people really did think I was
Speaker 2: I mean, no one. I had one friend who said
Speaker 2: to me, do you really think is this really what
Speaker 2: you want to do? You really think this is a
Speaker 2: good idea? Everyone else kind of went matchmaking? Okay, well, good.
Speaker 1: Luck with that, you know.
Speaker 2: And but so it takes a lot of courage to
Speaker 2: do a big pivot, you know, as you know, and uh.
Speaker 1: When people when people when you told people that you
Speaker 1: were like, I'm gonna be a matchmaker, were they surprised?
Speaker 1: Were they like, that's Francesca that were you know, people
Speaker 1: kind of fall out of their chairs? Do they like,
Speaker 1: you know, as Francisco always marched at a beat of
Speaker 1: her own drama on that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think I think a lot of
Speaker 2: people in my life just felt like, Okay, you know,
Speaker 2: she marches to the beat of her own drum. This
Speaker 2: is the thing she's into. I guess now, you know,
Speaker 2: I don't think people took it very seriously. But and
Speaker 2: I also the other thing that I skipped over is that,
Speaker 2: you know, I had been on Survivor right the show,
Speaker 2: and I'd been on Survivor twice, and you know that's
Speaker 2: a whole debacle. But anyway, but the point is, I
Speaker 2: think people were just kind of used to me doing
Speaker 2: risky things, unorthodox things, and so they were kind of like,
Speaker 2: all right, well, good luck with that. But there was
Speaker 2: literally not one person who was like, yes, this is
Speaker 2: a good idea. I see it, I see the vision,
Speaker 2: this is what you should do. So I had to
Speaker 2: really step out on faith that I was being called
Speaker 2: to this profession for a reason and trust that. But yeah,
Speaker 2: it wasn't always easy, but I'm glad I did.
Speaker 1: So you talked about this evolution of how you see it,
Speaker 1: how you counsel people when people come to you, that
Speaker 1: they have to be comfortable with themselves talking about self love.
Speaker 1: But yes, before we get there, let's talk about who's
Speaker 1: coming to see you. Median age.
Speaker 2: I would say the median age is probably late thirties.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, male or more female.
Speaker 2: So I have more women who come to me as clients,
Speaker 2: but I actually have more men who listen to my podcast,
Speaker 2: and I find that very interesting. Like the breakdown on
Speaker 2: social is really fifty to fifty, but I think fewer
Speaker 2: men are inclined to reach out to a coach and say,
Speaker 2: you know, I really want to hire you. I need
Speaker 2: deeper help with this. But yeah, and they might not
Speaker 2: feel as welcome because I do kind of speak to
Speaker 2: women mostly, but I include everyone in my heart, even
Speaker 2: if people just sort of you know, I happen to
Speaker 2: be a heterosexual woman, so I kind of default to
Speaker 2: that dynamic often, but not to exclude anyone. Everyone's included.
Speaker 2: And what I'm actually talking about, because what I'm actually
Speaker 2: talking about is really about self love and intention and
Speaker 2: that doesn't have anything to do with your gender or
Speaker 2: age or race or anything like that.
Speaker 1: Now I found that curious. Also, what do you what
Speaker 1: do you how do you account for that? Right? What
Speaker 1: do you what do you think it is with Matt
Speaker 1: that they are not inclined to ask for help, that
Speaker 1: they're lazy?
Speaker 3: I'd acted right, I mean, I mean you said it
Speaker 3: ask mean.
Speaker 1: I mean that could be added. What do you what
Speaker 1: do you think now? I I you know, I'm fifty two,
Speaker 1: and so we're all a product of our of our generations,
Speaker 1: and so being fifty two, and you know, I say
Speaker 1: to my kids, well there's there's Grandpa, you know, quite
Speaker 1: essential baby boomer. But you missed my my grandparents. But
Speaker 1: but Grandpa's generation of men were pre GPS, pre cell phones,
Speaker 1: which meant if you were lost with dad, right, and
Speaker 1: this doesn't matter, right, you know, black man, white man,
Speaker 1: a Hispanic man, it doesn't all men of that generation right.
Speaker 1: Overwhelmingly they would not ask for directions, right, you would
Speaker 1: have for five six hours? Right, you know, well they
Speaker 1: would not. They would not do it right. So like
Speaker 1: men are evolving right, somewhat right because they were your
Speaker 1: right asking for help. And and now people are listening
Speaker 1: and men are coming in. But what do you have
Speaker 1: an approach that's different? You know, off the line, what
Speaker 1: you say to a client, a man who's coming in
Speaker 1: late thirties versus a woman, you know, late thirties, how
Speaker 1: you how you begin? How you say it?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean I would say, well, first of all,
Speaker 2: I would say late thirties is the median, but the
Speaker 2: average is probably more like forties early early early to
Speaker 2: mid forties. And it's not that I necessarily say different
Speaker 2: things to I would say different things to a man
Speaker 2: versus a woman, but I do speak to them differently.
Speaker 2: Meaning what I do like about working with men is
Speaker 2: that when a man is motivated enough to work with
Speaker 2: a coach, he's pretty much like, Okay, I don't know
Speaker 2: what I'm doing, so just tell me what to do
Speaker 2: and I'll do it. So it tends to be a
Speaker 2: much more straightforward I don't have to account for as
Speaker 2: much sort of emotion and like because like the more
Speaker 2: direct communication. This is such generalizations right now. This is like,
Speaker 2: while generally.
Speaker 1: Right, but it's good marriage training, like witch, you'll do
Speaker 1: when you're told and try to action.
Speaker 2: Need Yeah, I mean there is something about there is
Speaker 2: something especially like in this I think again this heterosexual
Speaker 2: dynamic where there is an element of men want to
Speaker 2: please you as a woman. So even though I'm just
Speaker 2: their coach, there's no romantic anything, I'm still saying like, hey, this,
Speaker 2: you know, this is what we agree to. These are
Speaker 2: the actions you're going to take. And then if we
Speaker 2: get on the phone in a week and you haven't
Speaker 2: done it, and I'm like, well, tell me why you
Speaker 2: didn't do it? You know, like this isn't about me,
Speaker 2: this is about you. So what's going on here? You
Speaker 2: commit it or not. It's kind of like okay, you
Speaker 2: know I think that men tend to respond to that
Speaker 2: a little bit better than women, who it tends to
Speaker 2: be more of a conversation about Okay, let's talk about
Speaker 2: how you how you feel, and what's coming up for
Speaker 2: you and how you can like some tools to deal
Speaker 2: with that emotion so you can take the action that
Speaker 2: you want. So this men tend to just generally be
Speaker 2: a little bit more action oriented, but that can have
Speaker 2: its downside too, obviously, right, And so that's but that's
Speaker 2: what's great about man who's ready to work with a coach.
Speaker 2: I'm not just saying do these things. It's like there's
Speaker 2: there's reason, there's meaning, you know underneath it, and they're
Speaker 2: ready for that.
Speaker 1: Now. Now, what percentage of people that are coming to
Speaker 1: see who are divorced looking or you know versus you know,
Speaker 1: haven't been married yet, haven't had a Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean, I would say it's probably about fifty to
Speaker 2: fifty you know, between divorce or even if they weren't married,
Speaker 2: just maybe long term relationships, I would say, So, I'd
Speaker 2: say it's probably probably about fifty percent of people who've
Speaker 2: been in long term relationships, and then probably about twenty
Speaker 2: five percent of people who are actively dating but they're
Speaker 2: just like stuck in this cycle and they just can't
Speaker 2: break through, they can't break out of that dating cycle.
Speaker 2: And then about twenty five percent of people really don't
Speaker 2: date at all and maybe haven't really dated. And so
Speaker 2: they're coming to me to really get the confidence and
Speaker 2: the skills to start to open themselves up to date
Speaker 2: and to get romantically activated, as I call it.
Speaker 1: There are those people because they just gave up or
Speaker 1: they just never engaged in the.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's usually it's usually people who never really got started.
Speaker 2: And then and I and I, by the way, I'm
Speaker 2: one of those people. So, like I mean, I was
Speaker 2: a lawyer at a law firm, and I had to recognize, like,
Speaker 2: I don't know how to date, and I had to
Speaker 2: teach myself how to date because I literally was like
Speaker 2: I don't know how to get I don't know how
Speaker 2: to get a date. Then when I finally figured out
Speaker 2: how to get a date, I wasn't getting asked on
Speaker 2: second dates. So I was like my own first client, right.
Speaker 2: I had to face the kind of the shame that
Speaker 2: you can feel when you are an adult person who
Speaker 2: doesn't date and doesn't have relationships, because it feels like
Speaker 2: there's something wrong with you. Is like, why is everybody
Speaker 2: else figure this out but not me? And so it
Speaker 2: just happens a lot more camp. It happens a lot
Speaker 2: more often than people realize because oftentimes people who don't
Speaker 2: date and don't have relationships, they're not talking about it.
Speaker 2: So you just sort of like, oh, you know, they're busy,
Speaker 2: they doing this, Oh there are all these other things
Speaker 2: going on in their lives and that's just not a
Speaker 2: priority for them, or maybe they just don't talk about it.
Speaker 2: But people make assumptions that there's something going on that
Speaker 2: maybe is in and you know, so there are these
Speaker 2: different sort of ways that that circumstance can hide and
Speaker 2: plain sight. But it's actually it's actually pretty common.
Speaker 1: Now let me just are you saying same sex couples,
Speaker 1: are they part of the practice anyone from the transgender
Speaker 1: community or overwhelmingly or we talk about heterosexual practice couples coming.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, so, first of all, I don't work with couples.
Speaker 2: I work with individuals. Yeah, so, and in terms of that,
Speaker 2: and I mean, yeah, with individuals, So I mean in
Speaker 2: terms of people's like sexual orientation, I mean, most of
Speaker 2: my clients are heterosexual or least bisexual, Like there is
Speaker 2: some heterosexual dynamic there. But I've also had wonderful, amazing
Speaker 2: clients who are homosexual who do you know, all sorts
Speaker 2: of So I've had like every permutation basically, but most consistently,
Speaker 2: my most consistent client is a cisgendered heterosexual woman. That's
Speaker 2: my most typical client. But everyone, like I said, I've
Speaker 2: worked with everyone, and everyone is welcome. It's just those
Speaker 2: are the people who are the most drawn to me.
Speaker 1: And the people that will go see a coach to
Speaker 1: do this. Any inclination difference kind of more white than
Speaker 1: black or is it evenly.
Speaker 2: Really yeah, it's really evenly spread, and you know, it's
Speaker 2: evenly spread for me in terms of my own business.
Speaker 2: But and I think, you know, some coaches are a
Speaker 2: little bit more maybe, you know, like there are a
Speaker 2: lot of coaches, for instance, who specifically coached black women,
Speaker 2: Like they're coaches who specifically coach Jewish people. There are
Speaker 2: coaches who specific you know, So there's there's lots of
Speaker 2: different There are people who really specialize in particular communities
Speaker 2: and demographics. I don't specialize in a particular community orgraphic,
Speaker 2: but that's but that's great. You know, there's lots of
Speaker 2: coaches out there, and there's basically a coach for everyone.
Speaker 2: So I think that as soon as people find like,
Speaker 2: oh there's somebody who's speaking my language, they're saying something
Speaker 2: that resonates with me. What I don't I don't see
Speaker 2: race being a factor in making a decision as to
Speaker 2: whether or not they're going to work with somebody. It's
Speaker 2: just who they're going to work with.
Speaker 1: Or most people college educated, affluent, Yes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, most of my clients are professionals, and I
Speaker 2: mean they're again this is not like a requirement that
Speaker 2: I have, but this is just most of them are
Speaker 2: people who are more high, high achieving. A lot of
Speaker 2: them have graduate degrees, a lot of them have you know,
Speaker 2: that successful what looks like that very successful career. They
Speaker 2: have some means because it is a luxury service, right Like,
Speaker 2: so if you if you don't have any if you
Speaker 2: don't have any money to invest in coaching, you know,
Speaker 2: I still have lots of resources that are free. But
Speaker 2: in terms of who I work with one on one, yeah,
Speaker 2: there are people who tend to you know, they have
Speaker 2: they have the means to invest in coaching.
Speaker 1: All right, So I'm going to make a sweet thing
Speaker 1: kind of generalization. Now, so we've asked these questions just
Speaker 1: kind of arc type of Americans. And one of the
Speaker 1: things we were at the conferences, you know, which was
Speaker 1: a nice thing able to have a direct, honest of
Speaker 1: dialogue and conversations about things. And so we live in
Speaker 1: this era where everything is sliced and diced into the
Speaker 1: narrowest band, you know, left handed, white person, Irish descent
Speaker 1: of black. Is that everything else? But we're talking about
Speaker 1: really is a segment of the population here that is multicultural,
Speaker 1: that is diverse racially, is affluent, successful, lay thirties toes.
Speaker 1: About half the people have had a failed marriage, you know,
Speaker 1: my category you know now recently remarried, But you have
Speaker 1: people who haven't been in a relationship and about twenty
Speaker 1: percent that just have this part of their life that's
Speaker 1: that's on fill. Do I do I basically have that
Speaker 1: have that right? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you do. I mean I think the one thing
Speaker 2: that I would revise is that the age range is wider, right,
Speaker 2: because I was giving you meetians and averages. But like
Speaker 2: I you know, I've worked with people in their seventies.
Speaker 2: I like, I have a membership community. I have people
Speaker 2: in my community who were in their sixties and fifty anty,
Speaker 2: so there's a there is definitely arranged. But yes, I
Speaker 2: think that was a good summary. Good listening, feel Steve right.
Speaker 1: So I so what I what I think is is
Speaker 1: a couple of things. I think that we are now
Speaker 1: beginning to talk more about this as a society. The
Speaker 1: Surgeant General said that loneliness, yes, will kill you off
Speaker 1: as quickly as smoking a couple of backs a day,
Speaker 1: which is pretty statement.
Speaker 2: It really is. Yeah, that report was it was striking.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So you are this person who they come
Speaker 1: to see affluently successful people, and you are different right
Speaker 1: away from the overwhelming majority of people who who walk
Speaker 1: in that door because you walked out of something that
Speaker 1: made you unhappy, found yourself in a place that made
Speaker 1: you happy. And really what drives that happiness is helping
Speaker 1: other people. And part of that advice is telling people
Speaker 1: that you have to love yourself else right before you
Speaker 1: can't commit and to be a full whole partner to
Speaker 1: someone else. And so I guess my question is in
Speaker 1: the in the context, is what percentage of people are
Speaker 1: walking in to see you in some state of anxiety,
Speaker 1: some state of loneliness, some state of depression, right, which
Speaker 1: which is not something right that you initially set out
Speaker 1: right to observe talk about, but take in. But you
Speaker 1: assessed that this that this loneliness, this disconnection as as
Speaker 1: driving this emptiness.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know, I think there's some degree
Speaker 2: of anxiety and there's some degree of disconnection for everyone
Speaker 2: who comes to me. I mean I think if you
Speaker 2: didn't have any of that, then you wouldn't be seeking help.
Speaker 2: You wouldn't be seeking guidance in terms of depression. You know,
Speaker 2: there there have been times in the past where people
Speaker 2: have come to me and wanted to hire me and
Speaker 2: I actually felt like you actually need I would recommend
Speaker 2: therapy at this moment over coaching because if someone is
Speaker 2: in a very you know, if they're just in an
Speaker 2: extreme emotionally you know, disrupted state, then it's like coaching
Speaker 2: is it's not the time you want to you want
Speaker 2: to you want to stabilize. I mean, I help people
Speaker 2: with tools with obviously, you know, mental health is something
Speaker 2: that's part of just what probably any coach does. You know,
Speaker 2: it was a good coach at least, right, But I'm
Speaker 2: not a therapist, right, So, if somebody is having an
Speaker 2: acute mental health apriate right, exactly exactly, but you know
Speaker 2: there are It's interesting at the start of the pandemic,
Speaker 2: my business started booming because, I mean for a few reasons.
Speaker 2: One is because people were actually just like sitting down
Speaker 2: and like actually had time to, you know, really look
Speaker 2: at their lives and look at their choices and prioritize
Speaker 2: things differently. But also because people were sad and lonely,
Speaker 2: and they're like, Okay, is there really some way that
Speaker 2: I can even given the state of the world, even
Speaker 2: given my circumstances, is there still a way for me
Speaker 2: to feel connected and still have love? And yeah, I
Speaker 2: mean the answer is yes.
Speaker 1: Anybody's wondering. I say this all the time politically, and
Speaker 1: I know we see eye to eye on you know,
Speaker 1: the person I'm gonna talk about, But there's a we
Speaker 1: don't talk enough about in this country, about this crisis
Speaker 1: of loneliness and disconnection as it relates to our politics.
Speaker 1: And you know, what Donald Trump has created is a
Speaker 1: community of lonely, disconnected people and put them together under
Speaker 1: this Maga umbrella. And now that it's the worst cause
Speaker 1: since Jim Crow in the in the Confederacy is beside
Speaker 1: the point, right, if you're lovely and looking for a community,
Speaker 1: and you have people right who have found themselves there.
Speaker 1: Then on the margins of this, you know, or maybe
Speaker 1: margins is wrong word, because it's it's more mainstream than that.
Speaker 1: Now you have a a militant extremism that's attracting disaffected people,
Speaker 1: and they wind up in the Proud Boys, and they
Speaker 1: wind up in the Oathkeepers, and they wind up in
Speaker 1: the Patriot Front neo Nazi organization, just like it's always
Speaker 1: always been. And so you know, this societal issue, right,
Speaker 1: the healthcare costs of loneliness, the political costs of loneliness,
Speaker 1: and at the end of the day, the cost of
Speaker 1: loneliness against really the mission statement of a country, which is,
Speaker 1: you know, for people to pursue happiness. It's that it's
Speaker 1: tough to pursue your happiness if you're sad and you
Speaker 1: and you and you're alone. So so most people who
Speaker 1: come to see you, you know, you would say, are
Speaker 1: in a state of some degree or not of loneliness.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say, I mean, I would I wouldn't
Speaker 2: say that that's how they would describe it. I mean,
Speaker 2: people don't say I'm so lonely help me. They're more like,
Speaker 2: I really want to need someone, I really want to
Speaker 2: have a relationship, I want to have love, I want
Speaker 2: to feel more connected to myself. So I think that's
Speaker 2: it's not that lonely is the word that they necessarily
Speaker 2: always use, but there is some loneliness there, because if
Speaker 2: we feel disconnected from love, we're going to feel lonely,
Speaker 2: whether you are in a relationship or not, right Like,
Speaker 2: that's just that's just how it goes. Like that's you know,
Speaker 2: love is an inside job and it doesn't feel that way.
Speaker 2: And you know, and to your larger point about what's
Speaker 2: happening politically and our country, you know, I don't give
Speaker 2: Donald Trump that much credit. I mean, he's an avatar.
Speaker 2: He's somebody who came along and if the conditions were
Speaker 2: not perfect for his message and for him to tap
Speaker 2: into a certain vein, then it wouldn't you know, it
Speaker 2: never would have connected.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: So I think that we have disaffected people in every
Speaker 2: you know, political shade and spectrum because ultimately, I believe
Speaker 2: that we have a self worth crisis in our culture
Speaker 2: and that is the cause of everything, because we don't
Speaker 2: view ourselves as inherently worthy, and we don't view other
Speaker 2: people is inherently worthy. So what I mean by that is,
Speaker 2: if you think about a newborn baby and you look
Speaker 2: at a newborn baby, does this baby deserve love? Do
Speaker 2: they deserve respect? Do they deserve kindness? Do they deserve safety? Right?
Speaker 2: So some people would say maybe depends on what color
Speaker 2: they are or where they were born, right, But hopefully
Speaker 2: we can all actually understand that, yeah, this baby, of
Speaker 2: course baby is born deserving of those things, right. And
Speaker 2: so if you can accept that, then you can also
Speaker 2: start to understand that that applies to all of us.
Speaker 2: We were all born, We were all babies once, right.
Speaker 2: And part of what I see as the problem politically
Speaker 2: is that no one wants to give anyone the basic
Speaker 2: foundation of just you are a worthy human. I might
Speaker 2: disagree with you, but I recognize your inherent worth. And
Speaker 2: so if we recognize each other's inherent worth, like even
Speaker 2: on the basic level of respect, right, like, respect is
Speaker 2: not something that I believe that we should have to
Speaker 2: earn from one another. We owe it to each other
Speaker 2: to just respect each other's humanity, and we don't do
Speaker 2: that so often on either side of the political spectrum.
Speaker 2: And so if we continue to just dehumanize each other.
Speaker 2: It's only a reflection of how we feel. Like if
Speaker 2: we felt really connected internally, and we loved ourselves, and
Speaker 2: we felt inherently worthy and you know, good enough, and
Speaker 2: we didn't have to do all these things and get
Speaker 2: this outside validation and approval and all of this and
Speaker 2: you know, money and success and all these things told
Speaker 2: be good enough. If we just felt good enough as
Speaker 2: we as we are inherently today right now, I think
Speaker 2: the world would be a different place. It would be transformed.
Speaker 2: So that's how I look at these things. That's why
Speaker 2: I'm always about let's talk about how you feel about yourself,
Speaker 2: because it is such an easy distraction to project and
Speaker 2: put all your energy and all your attention on other people.
Speaker 2: Look at how terrible they are, look at how stupid
Speaker 2: they are, look at how bad they are. And if
Speaker 2: everyone one in the world just continues to do that,
Speaker 2: we are actually going to have an apocalypse and we
Speaker 2: are all going to kill each other, because that is
Speaker 2: the inevitable outcome of that, of that that energy continuing.
Speaker 1: You said, you said one of the things about self
Speaker 1: worth that I want to that I want to come
Speaker 1: back to you, but let me so before we come
Speaker 1: back to self worth, and I want to ask you
Speaker 1: a question, which is, why do you think that it
Speaker 1: is that people's self worth has never been lower? Is
Speaker 1: what you're saying at a time when it's costly validy? Right.
Speaker 1: The first thing that comes to mind, right, you know
Speaker 1: is we inculcate our kids with self worth now at
Speaker 1: a young age, with with participation trophies. Right, so there's
Speaker 1: there's no lack of validation. Right, And I want to
Speaker 1: I want to go more deeply into this with you,
Speaker 1: because I think your observation there was brilliant. But how
Speaker 1: many people before we do that, how many people say
Speaker 1: to you, is there is there looking for a match? Absolutely?
Speaker 1: No one else on the other political party? Well, what's whatsoever?
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter. I'll date it racially. I'll date you know,
Speaker 1: between religions, right, cultures, whatever. But you know, no Republican
Speaker 1: or no Democrat was so over.
Speaker 2: I mean I probably I don't think I have any
Speaker 2: clients who'd say no Democrats whatsoever. They probably wouldn't be
Speaker 2: irony me that way.
Speaker 1: Okay, But.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I most this, this has changed because
Speaker 2: I've been doing this now for ten years and When
Speaker 2: I first started doing this, people were much more about
Speaker 2: values and much more about you know, I don't have
Speaker 2: to I don't have to agree on every single political
Speaker 2: point as my partner, but as long as we have
Speaker 2: like common ground, and I've definitely seen that polarized, Like
Speaker 2: people are not interested in navigating common ground anymore. They
Speaker 2: really just are like, Nope, I just want somebody who
Speaker 2: has the same political views as me. So some people
Speaker 2: are more extreme in that than others. But I'd say
Speaker 2: that everybody has a political line in the sand. Now
Speaker 2: that's very clear. That probably was a little bit fuzzier.
Speaker 2: They'd have to give it some more thought, you know,
Speaker 2: ten years ago or eight years ago.
Speaker 1: Is it is it? Is it just stable now? Is
Speaker 1: it just is it just the way it is? Is
Speaker 1: it still hardening? Is it still is it still getting worse? Right?
Speaker 1: Or more people you know, more more direct and more
Speaker 1: clear on that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think it's I think it's getting
Speaker 2: worse at the moment. For sure. Yeah, it's getting worse.
Speaker 2: But you know, the thing about the thing about dating
Speaker 2: culture and just our romantic culture in general, is that
Speaker 2: it's not this thing that's like out there, like we're
Speaker 2: all a part of it, right, And so everyone contributes
Speaker 2: to it, whether you are actively dating, whether you're in
Speaker 2: a relationship or not, we're all still we're all still
Speaker 2: collectively contributing our expectations and our you know, behaviors and
Speaker 2: based on certain beliefs about love and relationships. So we
Speaker 2: all have to decide, Wow, this is getting bad. It's
Speaker 2: only getting worse. And if this continues, what is that
Speaker 2: going to mean for all of us as a society.
Speaker 2: What is that going to mean for us as individuals?
Speaker 2: To feel like half of the country is my mortal enemy? Right, Like,
Speaker 2: this is not going to be This is not going
Speaker 2: to be a happy situation for any of us. So
Speaker 2: it's it's like the individual. So going back to what
Speaker 2: you said about self worth and the validation that a
Speaker 2: lot of you know, people get. So there's a difference
Speaker 2: between self worth and self heal and between self wealth,
Speaker 2: self worth and self validation or being validated, because oftentimes,
Speaker 2: and what happens with a lot of kids is that
Speaker 2: even by very very well intentioned people, we all get
Speaker 2: this to some degree, your self worth now becomes tied
Speaker 2: to the validation. It's not you're good enough. Oh, and
Speaker 2: that's amazing that you did that thing. It's you did
Speaker 2: that thing, and that's what makes you special, and that's
Speaker 2: what makes you good enough. And so the validation and
Speaker 2: that's why we see social do just getting a million
Speaker 2: likes on Instagram help people's mental health? We all know
Speaker 2: that it doesn't.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say these things a bit disaster, right,
Speaker 1: They've been a disaster for this. Do you do you
Speaker 1: believe it?
Speaker 2: I mean, I listen, yes, they have, but this but
Speaker 2: I'm also not you know, I don't blame it all
Speaker 2: on technology, but technology definitely exacerbates a lot of behaviors
Speaker 2: that we see now the result of this, Like we
Speaker 2: wouldn't know, we wouldn't have the loneliness epidemic that we
Speaker 2: have country if we didn't have if we didn't have,
Speaker 2: you know, iPhones and social media, we wouldn't.
Speaker 1: So let me so what So I have a good
Speaker 1: friend of mine. His name is name is Paul, and
Speaker 1: I've traveled all around the world with Paul, and We've
Speaker 1: got out a lot of whether it's diving, hiking, a
Speaker 1: lot of things involving guides and and Paul's dream is
Speaker 1: to write a book. And in the book, he says
Speaker 1: will be the dumbest question that he died has has
Speaker 1: been asked, and I I think you're in a in
Speaker 1: a related field. Perhaps I love it right that we
Speaker 1: can talk about dating a little bit and what it's
Speaker 1: like out there. A lot of people in the warning
Speaker 1: community might skew a little bit older and aren't necessarily
Speaker 1: out in the dating uh world right now, and so
Speaker 1: we live in a peculiar time, peculiar age, post post pandemic.
Speaker 1: So give us to handle on what's going on out
Speaker 1: there generically in the dating world right through the prism
Speaker 1: of let's say a guy right who comes to see you,
Speaker 1: you know what, his late thirties, early forties, he's alone,
Speaker 1: he's looking for a partner, you know, he musts to
Speaker 1: find the one. What is it? What is it that
Speaker 1: you're gonna say to him? And what is it? What
Speaker 1: is the thing that you most commonly hear right from
Speaker 1: that guy? As both a coach now, right, but as
Speaker 1: a woman, you're just like, oh my god, what is it?
Speaker 1: What is it that they don't get about us?
Speaker 2: That's interesting. I mean, I can't say that there's like
Speaker 2: a dumb, one specific dumb question, but but I think
Speaker 2: there is a general naivete Let's put it that way
Speaker 2: in terms of thinking that there's just this formula that
Speaker 2: you can follow and you're going to meet somebody and
Speaker 2: into a great relationship without having to look at any
Speaker 2: of your own beliefs, expectations, behaviors and you know. So
Speaker 2: I think there's the sense of just like, okay, well
Speaker 2: just tell me what to do to like go meet
Speaker 2: this great person. And it's like, well, I mean, we
Speaker 2: got to talk first about you, right, because just going
Speaker 2: through just taking just going through steps just for the
Speaker 2: sake of going through steps when you're not aligned with
Speaker 2: how you actually feel and what you believe, and it's
Speaker 2: just not it's not going to work. So I think
Speaker 2: it's not that they're dumb questions. It's just more of
Speaker 2: this sense that maybe there's just this one answer that
Speaker 2: I haven't heard, and you can just tell me that
Speaker 2: one thing and I can just do it and not
Speaker 2: have to worry about anything else. So it's not dumb
Speaker 2: so much as naive.
Speaker 1: You do keep track of the people that you have,
Speaker 1: your clients, who have who have how many people say,
Speaker 1: you know, I've met someone, we're getting married. You do
Speaker 1: it to you?
Speaker 2: You Yeah, so you'd be surprised. Okay, so I definitely
Speaker 2: I have plenty of people who actively like reach out
Speaker 2: to me, you know, invite me to weddings, you know,
Speaker 2: say like this never would have happened things to you.
Speaker 2: But then I also have people who will just like randomly,
Speaker 2: like they'll see something I post on Instagram and they'll
Speaker 2: be like, oh, hey, I you know, I forgot to
Speaker 2: tell you. You know, we worked together three years ago
Speaker 2: and you said blah blah blah and this was so helpful.
Speaker 2: And right after that, I met this guy and we've
Speaker 2: been married now for a year, and I'm like, you're
Speaker 2: gonna tell me that, like you'd be so sor like
Speaker 2: that happens so often. It's like people are like, oh,
Speaker 2: I kind of forgot, Because I think what happens is
Speaker 2: that it's not like when you're matchmaking and you're the
Speaker 2: one who's literally like, you know, Jane meet Steve and
Speaker 2: it's like, oh, you know, how did you meet Francesca
Speaker 2: introduced us? Right, But when it's coaching and you've now
Speaker 2: developed the skill to become your own matchmaker, you've done it,
Speaker 2: so it's not like, you know, you know, I think
Speaker 2: I think that people sometimes don't they don't make the
Speaker 2: direct connection.
Speaker 1: Have you have you had some matchmaking horror stories?
Speaker 2: Oh god, yes, yeah, there's there's a reason that I
Speaker 2: don't matchmake anymore, Steve, because it.
Speaker 1: Was not like, well you got to you gotta share
Speaker 1: one here?
Speaker 2: Like what taking years?
Speaker 1: Bad? Like what what? Let's hear the word? What is
Speaker 1: the worst? Francesca?
Speaker 2: The worst is is it's not even about disastrous dates.
Speaker 2: It's about people with an absurdly unrealistic expectations, people who
Speaker 2: like I mean, I had to start saying to people
Speaker 2: when they're telling me, Okay, this is why I want
Speaker 2: to meet somebody. One of my standard questions had like became, okay,
Speaker 2: when is the last time you met someone who met
Speaker 2: this basic criteria? And sometimes it's like, well I haven't,
Speaker 2: right and like and they'll be like, oh, i've met
Speaker 2: you know, you know, maybe teuble years ago. Okay, when's
Speaker 2: the last time you dated somebody met this basic criteria?
Speaker 2: And so often people are like no, and I like,
Speaker 2: I had this one. I was thinking about her the
Speaker 2: other day at this one client. Her criteria is that
Speaker 2: she wanted to date someone who was he had to
Speaker 2: be over six three, have blonde hair, green eyes, a
Speaker 2: minimum of one hundred thousand dollars cash like savings on
Speaker 2: hand and like some other like super specific things. And
Speaker 2: I was like, okay, well, I said, you know, blonde
Speaker 2: hair and green eyes six three wow, six', three that's
Speaker 2: already tiny slice of the. Population and then you add
Speaker 2: on top of that blonde, hair green, eyes like you, know,
Speaker 2: where when's the last time you you've even seen somebody
Speaker 2: who met this? Criteria and she's, LIKE i. Haven't but
Speaker 2: that's why that's WHAT i hired you.
Speaker 1: For if you were but if you were like if
Speaker 1: you were like six two and a, half, like don't
Speaker 1: you back like, now.
Speaker 2: She probably would have been flexible on half it. Inch
Speaker 2: but it's just but it's like that kind of delusion
Speaker 2: of like you THINK i have this magical portal where
Speaker 2: now they're all these like, blonde green eyed giants who
Speaker 2: want to who want to date?
Speaker 1: You you think do you think when that person is
Speaker 1: sitting in front of you, right, like that's not real?
Speaker 1: Life is? It?
Speaker 2: No? Well, actually and it was interesting about this. Particular
Speaker 2: this was interesting about this so this. Person REALLY i
Speaker 2: learned a lot from this, situation SO i never found
Speaker 2: myself in it. Again because what she did was she
Speaker 2: waited until after she hired me to be honest with
Speaker 2: me about what she was looking. For so and she
Speaker 2: also waited until after she hired hired me to be
Speaker 2: honest with me that she'd never been in a relationship.
Speaker 2: Before so she so it was, like you, know so
Speaker 2: she so there were so many you, know there were
Speaker 2: so many things. There but this is actually a perfect
Speaker 2: example of how love is an inside. Job she was convincing,
Speaker 2: Herself i'm single BECAUSE i haven't met this impossible. Person
Speaker 2: but it's, like, no this is all your way of protecting.
Speaker 2: Yourself this is why you don't. Date this is why
Speaker 2: you've never had, relationships because you create these impossible obstacles
Speaker 2: within yourself and then you cling to. Them and now
Speaker 2: and you, know it becomes this whole story in vicious.
Speaker 1: Cycle is it a is it a defense? Mechanism?
Speaker 2: Yes or?
Speaker 1: A is it A i don't know what type of,
Speaker 1: material like what percentage of people come in right as
Speaker 1: opposed TO i want right the blonde, haired green, eyed
Speaker 1: six foot Three Dolph lungern, dude, right you, know LIKE
Speaker 1: i want like you Know MICHAEL. B, Johnson, right you,
Speaker 1: know LIKE i want somebody who's. KIND i want someone who's.
Speaker 1: GENTLE i want somebody with, character, integrity hard. Work. RIGHT
Speaker 1: i mean what percentage of people come in and talk about? That?
Speaker 1: RIGHT i JUST i can't find somebody with like what
Speaker 1: we would call the or character virtues a versus a
Speaker 1: materialistic right. Aesthetic. RIGHT i want someone who looks like,
Speaker 1: this makes this, much and lives, here drives.
Speaker 2: This type of, yeah so and so. AGAIN i don't matchmake.
Speaker 2: Anymore and this is one of the reasons, why because with,
Speaker 2: matchmaking it's probably eighty percent leading with the superficial list
Speaker 2: of things that people want because they think that if
Speaker 2: as long as they meet somebody that checks these, boxes
Speaker 2: then that person they'll be. Happy but as for, Coaching
Speaker 2: but for, coaching people are more they have more awareness that, like,
Speaker 2: OH i actually have to do some things differently, here
Speaker 2: so they typically don't lead with. That it's more About,
Speaker 2: OKAY i know the kind of RELATIONSHIP i want to,
Speaker 2: HAVE i know HOW i want to. Feel but that's
Speaker 2: STILL i, mean but all of that still comes. UP i,
Speaker 2: mean everyone still has, preferences and some people are more
Speaker 2: attached to very specific is the goal or you, know
Speaker 2: quantifiable external traits that they can check off a list
Speaker 2: versus really thinking about the. Relationship but it's not their
Speaker 2: fault because you, KNOW i just did A ted talk
Speaker 2: last month In vancouver and my thank you and.
Speaker 1: My right thay In North. America what's that my favorite
Speaker 1: stating In North? America?
Speaker 2: Really, well that's it was only my second time, there
Speaker 2: but it is very. Beautiful. Yeah but you know WHAT
Speaker 2: i talked about in my tech talk is WHAT i
Speaker 2: call the fairy tale industrial, complex which is just this
Speaker 2: web of, marketing, advertising, movies, music so many things that
Speaker 2: really sell us this notion of romantic love as a,
Speaker 2: fantasy and it's about finding one perfect person and when
Speaker 2: you find that perfect, person you live happily ever. After
Speaker 2: and this is something that is like literally used to
Speaker 2: sell us, everything, right like everything from cars to chewing
Speaker 2: gum to make up to. Everything it's, like if you're beautiful,
Speaker 2: enough if you're handsome, enough if you look rich, enough
Speaker 2: if you look this, way if you have these, things
Speaker 2: then you'll be, desirable then you'll be, lovable then you'll
Speaker 2: live happily ever. After and this really seeps into people's.
Speaker 2: Expectations so we're all kind of programmed to have this
Speaker 2: feeling that romantic love is about one perfect person and
Speaker 2: If i'm not, happy it's BECAUSE i haven't found the perfect,
Speaker 2: person it's because my partner isn't quote making me. Happy
Speaker 2: but the reality, is if you are an unhappy, person
Speaker 2: even if you meet somewhat, amazing you'll briefly have a
Speaker 2: bump in your happiness because the novelty of, it and
Speaker 2: then you'll go back To you'll just default back to
Speaker 2: your regular level of unhappiness right like wherever you, go
Speaker 2: there you. Are so a big shift that people need
Speaker 2: to make in thinking about romantic relationships is from not
Speaker 2: just being focused on the characteristics of another, person but
Speaker 2: to actually start, with, well what are the? Qualities what
Speaker 2: are the values of the relationship THAT i want to?
Speaker 2: Have because if you know that your core romantic values
Speaker 2: include things, like you, know emotional, intimacy then when you're dating,
Speaker 2: somebody no matter how you, know If Dolph lungren's your,
Speaker 2: thing it may Be Dolph. Lungern but if you can
Speaker 2: if you're, like, oh BUT i can see one of
Speaker 2: my core needs is not being met. Here this person
Speaker 2: is not capable of meeting me at the level of emotional.
Speaker 2: Intimacy That i'm. Seeking then you understand it's, like, well
Speaker 2: it's not about them being, Perfect it's about what we
Speaker 2: create when we come, together, Right and the relationship is
Speaker 2: a co, creation and you're half of that. Equation so
Speaker 2: you have to start with you, like, well what AM i?
Speaker 2: Expecting what are my? Values what DO i? Want what
Speaker 2: AM i bringing to the? Table what are the ways
Speaker 2: in Which i'm not being? Loving, Right i'm not being
Speaker 2: loving towards, Myself i'm not being loving towards other. People
Speaker 2: so you, KNOW i could go on about, This i'll,
Speaker 2: STOP i could go on.
Speaker 1: And, oh it's, FASCINATING i will. SAY i will say
Speaker 1: this about you as we come to the end of our.
Speaker 1: Time you are an exceptionally interesting person and you are
Speaker 1: in this like very very very like narrow like band
Speaker 1: of people you know that you meet over the course
Speaker 1: of life that are just happy and exlude a type
Speaker 1: of glow that makes people feel. Good you, know it's
Speaker 1: a gift and a TALENTED i think that WHEN i
Speaker 1: talk to young, people talk to people on college, campuses you,
Speaker 1: know you, know talk about careers in the direction they'll,
Speaker 1: go and you, know the degree to which anybody hears,
Speaker 1: this including my own. Kids, right this track that you're
Speaker 1: supposed to be on for whatever, reason you, know to
Speaker 1: whatever place is highly. Artificial and you know that you're
Speaker 1: in the town, car you're in the big, city you're
Speaker 1: on the fast track in the big law, firm and,
Speaker 1: right that doesn't necessarily mean you're gonna wind up in
Speaker 1: a happy and a fulfilled. Place and so you get
Speaker 1: one lap around the. Track what you're supposed to do
Speaker 1: versus what you're called to, DO i think are very different.
Speaker 1: Things and you, know the sooner you figure that out in,
Speaker 1: life probably the better off you. Are and you're a
Speaker 1: trailblazer in that. Front you're helping a lot of, people
Speaker 1: and you are an incredibly interesting. Person And, francesca before we,
Speaker 1: go tell us tell the audience here where they can find.
Speaker 2: You, well first of, ALL i have to thank you
Speaker 2: for such so many kind. WORDS i really really appreciate.
Speaker 2: IT i am easy to. Find i'm At Dear franny.
Speaker 2: EVERYWHERE i have a podcast Called Dear. Franny, actually my
Speaker 2: fifth season launches later this, week so there'll be some
Speaker 2: new episodes. Coming But i'm on all the socials At Dear.
Speaker 2: Franny easy To.
Speaker 1: Find franny's great on chourage you to follow her go,
Speaker 1: Listen Frank, chessca thank you so much FOR i just do.
Speaker 2: That it's, okay it's.
Speaker 1: Perfect you just get that right, Yet, francesca thank you
Speaker 1: so much for being with us.
Speaker 2: Today thank you for having, Me. STEVE i appreciate. It