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Speaker 1: Well, I had one person tell me I couldn't do it,

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Speaker 1: and my husband's.

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Speaker 2: Like, why did you say that?

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Speaker 1: I invite him.

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Speaker 3: I invite him every year to our little event.

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Speaker 4: I'm like, come on over, so you can't do it,

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Speaker 4: so you said.

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Speaker 1: We're going to It's what's right? I mean, honestly, I don't.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know what. I didn't know. I'm not a

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Speaker 1: business person, so I had no idea how to do

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Speaker 1: any of that. I just knew that care could be better.

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Speaker 1: And if it was my baby, I would have demanded

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Speaker 1: the closet. I would have said that my baby's going

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Speaker 1: in the closet no matter what, and.

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Speaker 3: That just it's what's right.

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Speaker 4: This thing is terror changes the world about their own

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Speaker 4: babies and clauses exactly. Welcome to an army of normal folks.

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Speaker 4: I'm Bill Courtney. I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband,

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Speaker 4: I'm a father, I'm an entrepreneur, and I've been a

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Speaker 4: football coach in inner City Memphis. And the last part

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Speaker 4: it somehow led to an oscar for the film about

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Speaker 4: our team.

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Speaker 2: It's called Undefeated. Y'all.

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Speaker 4: I believe our country's problems will never be solved by

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Speaker 4: a bunch of fancy people and nice suits, using big

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Speaker 4: words that nobody ever uses on Cinn and Fox, but

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Speaker 4: rather an army of normal folks US just you and

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Speaker 4: me deciding, Hey, you know what I can help? That's

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Speaker 4: what Tara Sundum, the voice we just heard is done.

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Speaker 4: Tara is a nick you nurse in the Phoenix area

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Speaker 4: who experienced firsthand the growing epidemic of newborns get this

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Speaker 4: withdrawing from the mom's drugs that they got in the womb,

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Speaker 4: and she also experienced that they weren't being given great

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Speaker 4: treatment that helped them recover. Tara stumbled into a solution

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Speaker 4: that was better for everyone, the babies, the moms, and

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Speaker 4: our tax dollars. I cannot wait for you to meet

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Speaker 4: Tara and her Hushaby nursery. Right after these brief messages

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Speaker 4: from our general sponsors, Tarah Sundam, Welcome to Memphis.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 2: How was this kind of rainy? How was the flight in? Oh?

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Speaker 3: It's perfect?

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Speaker 2: Really yeah, not bad.

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Speaker 1: No, going into Arizona it's really rocky, but coming in

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Speaker 1: here was easy.

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Speaker 2: It's good. Where'd you fly through Dallas?

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Speaker 4: I guess yes, yeah, Phoenix, Dallas, Memphis, and then I guess, Memphis, Dallas,

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Speaker 4: Phoenix back out exactly. I really appreciate you coming to

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Speaker 4: spend the day with us. Can't wait to talk about

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Speaker 4: I think I think I'm saying it right. It's husher By, Yes,

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Speaker 4: husher By Nursery and all of it. And you know,

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Speaker 4: I found myself as I was learning your background. I

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Speaker 4: have so many questions and I can't wait to get

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Speaker 4: to them. But first, who's Janelle Jones?

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Speaker 1: She's my PR and developments manager.

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Speaker 2: When she emailed us, she was not who is Dorene Jones?

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Speaker 1: Her mom?

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Speaker 2: Her mom?

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Speaker 1: Yes, I was like, when I saw Dorene, I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know who that person is. And so yeah,

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Speaker 1: I here very persistent.

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Speaker 4: Well, a shout out to Dorene and Janelle Jones, apparently

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Speaker 4: consistent listeners and followers of an army of normal folks.

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Speaker 4: The reason we found out about you was Daren, who said,

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Speaker 4: we need to get this care model nationwide. Please consider

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Speaker 4: having husher By Nursery and Phoenix, Arizona on your show.

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Speaker 4: It is truly changing the cycle. Thank you so much.

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Speaker 4: I'm a dedicated listener to your podcast and love everything

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Speaker 4: you stand for. Janelle said, Hi, they're big fan of

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Speaker 4: the podcast, I want to adjust someone for you to

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Speaker 4: talk to on her show on your show. Her name

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Speaker 4: is Tara Sundam and she is founder of one of

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Speaker 4: the one of a kind nursery in Phoenix for newborns

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Speaker 4: who are born exposed to substances. Thanks for your consideration.

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Speaker 4: I believe covering TERA's journey could create a lot of

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Speaker 4: awareness around this growing issue. So we have two fans,

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Speaker 4: but so do you, apparently, and that is how we

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Speaker 4: found out about you. So for all of our listeners,

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Speaker 4: we're not kidding. If you tell us about folks, Alex

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Speaker 4: will find out about them. And Tara's living proof that

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Speaker 4: organically we are starting to and our guests through our listeners.

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Speaker 2: Which is very cool.

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Speaker 3: It is really cool.

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Speaker 2: It is cool.

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Speaker 4: So before we get to hush about nursery and these

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Speaker 4: wonderful things, is it Janelle or Janello? Janelle and Doreen

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Speaker 4: have said about you?

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Speaker 2: From? Where do you hail?

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Speaker 3: Originally grew up in Hartford, South Dakota. It's close to

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Speaker 3: sup Balls.

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Speaker 4: Hartford, South Dakota. I mean that's like.

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Speaker 3: Like two thousand people, tiny little town.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but South Dakota is cool, right, It's beautiful.

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Speaker 1: It is beautiful. Yeah, during the summer.

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Speaker 2: During the summer, during the winter, during the winter. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: you don't have to experience that. I don't guess. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: So what how did you get Phoenix?

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Speaker 3: My family slowly but shortly started to.

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Speaker 2: Move and I said, the hell with these winners. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I graduated in nursing school and said, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm going and nursing school. So once I graduate, graduated,

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Speaker 1: got my nursing degree. Then up there in Mankato, Minnesota.

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Speaker 4: Another booming metropolis that sounds like cold. Yeah. And so

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Speaker 4: your family basically migrated to Phoenix thirty years ago or so,

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Speaker 4: but half.

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Speaker 3: Of us, I say, yeah, we're still in.

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Speaker 4: Such So once you graduated nursing school, you moved to Phoenix, Yes,

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Speaker 4: all right, and siblings any of that stuff.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I have his herson hours. So there's eight of

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Speaker 3: us total.

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Speaker 2: Wow, that is a Brady bud. Yes, Yes, that's incredible. Yeh.

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Speaker 4: And then you moved to Phoenix. I guess you're in

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Speaker 4: your twenties at that point.

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Speaker 3: Yep, twenty three.

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Speaker 2: Twenty three, And I guess you start life as a nurse. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: what was your first.

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Speaker 1: Job in the neonatal intensive carey? In it taking care

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Speaker 1: of babies.

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Speaker 2: That was your first job, my very very first job.

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Speaker 2: How do you like to prepare you for that?

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Speaker 1: I thought I wanted to do pediatrics, and I wanted

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Speaker 1: to do I see you like sick kids, and I

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Speaker 1: just got lucky and my kind of a goofy story

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Speaker 1: and you can tell me to not go here.

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Speaker 2: No, no, we got to establish who you are.

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Speaker 1: I went down to Arizona not knowing, you know, really

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Speaker 1: what Phoenix was. And I interviewed like at eleven places

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Speaker 1: and went to Tucson, which is like a two hour drive.

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Speaker 3: I had no idea how far it was. I'm from

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Speaker 3: South Dakota. I'm like, I can drive that far. Not

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Speaker 3: a big deal. And did interviews down there.

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Speaker 1: Every time I went into an interview, they scheduled an interview,

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Speaker 1: but they would be like, we have no openings, thanks

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Speaker 1: so much, and turn me around.

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Speaker 3: And my husband and I my.

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Speaker 1: Boyfriend at the time, and I went to an ASU

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Speaker 1: baseball game and it was chili and I was wearing

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Speaker 1: my man Cato Stay sweatshirt and all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: this guy comes down and he's like, you wouldn't happen

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Speaker 1: to be Tara Wagner.

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Speaker 3: That was my maiden name, and I'm like, I was like.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and he's like, my wife's up here and you

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Speaker 1: have an interview I think with her tomorrow.

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Speaker 3: And I was like, oh, so I went.

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Speaker 1: Up like schmoozed as best I possibly could, and at

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Speaker 1: the end she goes, I mean it sat there the

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Speaker 1: whole game. And at the end she's like, after when

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Speaker 1: you come in for your interview, make sure that they

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Speaker 1: know I want you to. I want to talk with you.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, okay, So going from an interview again,

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Speaker 1: walk in, They're like, thank you so much for coming.

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Speaker 3: We don't have any openings. We'll keep your name on file.

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Speaker 1: And I'm like and I turned back around and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: Carol Richie said she wanted to like talk with me,

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Speaker 1: and I got the job. Really that was if I

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Speaker 1: had I not wore my sweatshirt to the baseball game

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Speaker 1: that night before, I don't know where I would have been.

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Speaker 2: That is crazy and kind of like divine intervention US.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so.

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Speaker 4: You start in the neotensive care unit. So the closest

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Speaker 4: thing I have to that is here in Memphis. We

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Speaker 4: have Saint Jude, which is a worldwide bland now and

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Speaker 4: you know, It's an incredible place where children with cancer

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Speaker 4: and diseases that nobody even can identify. Some of them,

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Speaker 4: Saint Jude takes them and not a single family or

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Speaker 4: child pays one dime for their care, and their care

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Speaker 4: is the best in the world. I don't know how

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Speaker 4: nurses and doctors. It takes an enormously special person in

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Speaker 4: my mind, to do that care, because many of those

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Speaker 4: children they lose because they're they're dealing with cancers and

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Speaker 4: diseases that other people can't even identify. And the care

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Speaker 4: and the compassion and love they show these cancer ridden

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Speaker 4: children from the United States, but from as far away

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Speaker 4: as you know, Malaysia and Nepal and points you've never

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Speaker 4: heard of, and they wrap their arms around the families

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Speaker 4: and these kids and they try to nurse them back

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Speaker 4: to help that they lose a lot. And how you

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Speaker 4: keep a spile on your face every day looking at

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Speaker 4: a child that you know may not make it and

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Speaker 4: is certainly suffering in a lot of pain is always

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Speaker 4: been a conundrum to me, because I don't know that

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Speaker 4: I could pull that off. Maybe I'm too soft, maybe

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Speaker 4: I just don't have that skill set. So as a

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Speaker 4: twenty three year old kid, which is.

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Speaker 2: What you were then.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, having just graduated from nursing school going into neo

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Speaker 4: natal intensive care, You're dealing with sick, sick, sick babies,

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Speaker 4: some of which won't make it, some of which which

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Speaker 4: is amazing to me that a human being can be

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Speaker 4: six inches long, that they can Yeah, how did you.

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Speaker 2: Deal with that at first? Was that? Did you?

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Speaker 4: Did you have to develop a skill set, a personal

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Speaker 4: skills forget the professional skill set up, the actual care,

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Speaker 4: the medical care I'm talking about, how do you care

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Speaker 4: for yourself in an environment?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, I'm a believer, so God a lot.

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Speaker 3: I mean, trying to like fathom why.

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Speaker 1: Things happen for the most part in the neonatal intensive

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Speaker 1: curey and when a baby passes, they're suffering, and it's

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Speaker 1: it's I look at it as that's where they need

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Speaker 1: to go.

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Speaker 3: They need to go to Heaven.

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Speaker 1: That's what they're where they need to go because they're

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Speaker 1: struggling too much with us. Now are there times where

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Speaker 1: you go, how did that happen? Everything was good, baby

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Speaker 1: was great. I had a baby that I took care of.

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Speaker 1: Mom and dad. They were teens. They lived probably three

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Speaker 1: hours away. They would go to school during the week.

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Speaker 1: They would come every Friday night, they would leave every Sunday.

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Speaker 1: But they were there and they were engaged, and they

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Speaker 1: were great, and their baby was born probably four months premature.

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Speaker 1: And got to know them and just loved them and

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Speaker 1: loved on their baby while they weren't there, and it's like,

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Speaker 1: we're doing good. And we thought on Christmas Eve that

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Speaker 1: baby was going home on the twenty sixth of December,

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Speaker 1: and on Christmas night got sick and we called and

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Speaker 1: I'm like, you need to get here now.

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Speaker 3: And she passed.

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Speaker 1: And when you have that, I mean, that's a lot

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Speaker 1: of praying and going, Okay, why did this happen?

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Speaker 3: But for the most part, you go, it's meant to be.

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Speaker 1: Then you have the kids that come back and visit you,

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Speaker 1: and you're like, oh my goodness. One of my dear friends,

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Speaker 1: she's also a Nenado nurse practitioner, and her grand baby.

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Speaker 3: Was born like size of a dollar.

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Speaker 2: Bill, the size of a dollar bill tiny, how premature

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Speaker 2: is the size of.

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Speaker 1: A dollar He was twenty six weeks, but I honestly

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Speaker 1: think he was like twenty four weeks looking at him.

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Speaker 2: Twenty four weeks, just say six.

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Speaker 3: Six months yep.

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Speaker 1: He was tiny, and I remember her, you know, coming

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Speaker 1: to tell us, you know, come meet him, and I'm

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Speaker 1: like okay, and I'm like, oh god, this is going

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Speaker 1: to be a long time that we're going to care

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Speaker 1: for him. And now he's I think he's seventeen and

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Speaker 1: about six two. He's skinnier than skinny, but smart like

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Speaker 1: honor society and doing great now. The whole time he

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Speaker 1: was he was in the neck. You his mom I works,

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Speaker 1: or his grandma works side by side, and we have

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Speaker 1: to literally tell her to get out. It's like, this

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Speaker 1: is he is not your patient. Don't tell me what

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Speaker 1: you want me to do with him. I know what

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Speaker 1: I'm doing. You just your grandma. And you get those rewards.

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Speaker 1: I got Christmas cards and you're like, look at that.

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Speaker 3: They're great.

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Speaker 1: So I think that it outweighs, you know, it teeters there.

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Speaker 2: Don't you experience the pain of parents who lose a child?

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, yes, you could tell.

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Speaker 1: I was like, okay, I'm gonna get tearful here.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, I mean I'm gating tears.

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Speaker 4: We have four healthy, beautiful children that we experienced absolutely

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Speaker 4: no trouble with other than adolence. Adolescents through about now.

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Speaker 4: But as infants, yes, we experienced no, you know, and

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Speaker 4: I was stupid and young, and Lisa and I didn't

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Speaker 4: know what we were doing. We had four kids in

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Speaker 4: four years and still don't know how it happened. But

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Speaker 4: we never had had to experience any of that. And

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Speaker 4: I'll look back on it now and I just I

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Speaker 4: just don't even know how as a parent you deal

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Speaker 4: with a child in that situation. And then as a nurse,

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Speaker 4: who invests in the child, and I guess you invest

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Speaker 4: in the parents.

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Speaker 3: Oh absolutely, the parents even more.

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Speaker 1: That's who you end up like loving you You fall

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Speaker 1: in love with the baby, but it's the parents that

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Speaker 1: you just really get to know.

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Speaker 3: That was my mind.

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Speaker 4: And when the child passes, they have to be just

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Speaker 4: absolutely distraught.

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Speaker 2: Oh yes, and so you have to explain you are too.

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Speaker 1: You Yeah. So initially when I became a nurse, my

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Speaker 1: aunt and my stepmom were nurses and they were very

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Speaker 1: like you never really saw them cry.

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Speaker 3: And I'm a crier.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I see somebody cry, I don't even know

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Speaker 1: why they're crying.

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Speaker 3: But here comes I'm gonna cry.

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Speaker 1: And I remember the first time that I had a

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Speaker 1: baby that was passing and I was trying to not

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Speaker 1: cry and it came out like ugly years. You know.

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Speaker 3: It got to that.

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Speaker 1: Point and the family wrote me a letter and said

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Speaker 1: thank you for caring, and I was like, Okay, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna cry whatever I want to cry and it just

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Speaker 1: makes them go. So their little one made a difference

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Speaker 1: to me, like it made a difference to them.

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Speaker 4: Where in your upbringing did this empathy you have come from?

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Speaker 4: Do you think, because it's very real you can see

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Speaker 4: in your face when you talk about it.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think all of my brothers and sisters, I

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Speaker 1: think we're all pretty caring.

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Speaker 2: My dad.

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Speaker 1: I mean, my dad was a large animal.

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Speaker 2: That really, but I wouldn't in the Dakota, in.

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Speaker 1: The Dakota with ranchers, Yeah yeah, But I mean I

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Speaker 1: don't know that he was. I don't think any of

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Speaker 1: my siblings would say that he was soft at all.

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Speaker 1: Maybe later on he was, but he Yeah, I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: have said that. But I think we all, for the

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Speaker 1: most part, art are gentle.

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Speaker 4: M We'll be right back. So now you're twenty three

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Speaker 4: getting your uh aren't in your stripes?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Really?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: And I guess you get married around this time. Huh yep,

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Speaker 4: a year later, got it?

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Speaker 2: Who's he? Who's this guy?

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Speaker 1: Met him my senior year of high school. He was

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Speaker 1: going to college and he ended up moving to or

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Speaker 1: going to Mancato. So then I followed him a year later,

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Speaker 1: and he ended up moving out to Phoenix before I

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Speaker 1: did a year earlier, and so followed out.

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Speaker 2: And it seems like you stalked him a little a

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Speaker 2: little bit.

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Speaker 3: A little bit, and actually initially very much.

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Speaker 1: So he had a his his sister was a twenty

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Speaker 1: fifth anniversary cruise gift, so there was twenty five holy

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Speaker 1: a twenty year twenty twenty ish year difference. I guess

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Speaker 1: eighteen is what it was. And he at the very

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Speaker 1: beginning of us dating, he would tell me that he

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Speaker 1: had a babysit, and I thought he really had a babysit.

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Speaker 1: And then I finally laid around his mom's like made

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Speaker 1: a babysit.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, he really did not want to go up

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Speaker 2: with me, So yeah, I really was the what's his name? Chad?

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Speaker 4: Hey, Chad, the gigs up, dude, You got caught.

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Speaker 1: He totally knows.

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Speaker 2: So you and Chad get buried and start a family

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Speaker 2: your own.

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Speaker 1: Yes, So you've got I have two boys.

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Speaker 3: They're twenty two and twenty five.

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Speaker 2: Colon Carson, got it. And what's Chad do for a living?

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Speaker 2: Just he is.

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Speaker 1: A I see a place with people's money. He's a

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Speaker 1: certified financial planner.

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Speaker 2: Got it. Yeah, So here you are, move to Phoenix.

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Speaker 4: You you've got your career, your husband's doing well, he's

341
00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:11,160
Speaker 4: got a business, You've got your two kids. I mean,

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Speaker 4: you're doing life, doing good. You're doing good, a really

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Speaker 4: nice life. But and I don't mean but unremarkable nothing.

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Speaker 4: You know, you're not going crazy. And and then as

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Speaker 4: I read this and you're I don't want to put

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Speaker 4: words in your mouth, but take us through it. You

347
00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:37,359
Speaker 4: start seeing the advent and a greater number over and

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Speaker 4: over again of infants.

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Speaker 2: In the n C.

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Speaker 4: I you would and I see you, and I see

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Speaker 4: you Nico, and I see you Niku. That's how people

352
00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,040
Speaker 4: say it, all right, the intensive care unit for babies

353
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Speaker 4: that are just boring you, You see them.

354
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Speaker 2: You start seeing or.

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Speaker 1: More of what babies coming in and withdrawing and being

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Speaker 1: with us for months at a time, withdrawing being opiate,

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Speaker 1: exposed for the most part, or any other substance. Back

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Speaker 1: back when we started twenty seventeen ish sixteen. It was

359
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Speaker 1: mostly heroin that you were seeing babies exposed to, and

360
00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:25,960
Speaker 1: one mom explained to me withdrawals being the worst flu

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Speaker 1: in migraine times one hundred and so when she like

362
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:31,359
Speaker 1: dumbed that down for me, I was like, Oh, my gosh,

363
00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:34,120
Speaker 1: that's exactly what we see with the baby.

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Speaker 3: You know.

365
00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:38,240
Speaker 4: You mean a mom that was an addict said that

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Speaker 4: when she got off her drugs, whatever it was heroin

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Speaker 4: or oxy or heroin, that the withdraws were the worst

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Speaker 4: flu in migraine you could ever imagine, times one hundred.

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Speaker 2: Yes, how long does that last for a baby?

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Speaker 3: A few months?

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Speaker 1: It can? It can with hushby, we've made it well. Yeah,

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00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:04,159
Speaker 1: but yeah, my longest baby is four months with drawing

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Speaker 1: in the hospital.

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Speaker 4: So you're telling me this infant gets brought into the

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Speaker 4: world and from day one they are in.

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Speaker 1: Immense pain, usually about twenty four hours, and then they

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Speaker 1: start with drawing.

378
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Speaker 2: What, oh, it's a while before that's as happened.

379
00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:27,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, usually usually about twenty four thirty six hours.

380
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Speaker 4: Let's go to the science of I mean, it's a

381
00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:36,680
Speaker 4: terrible term, but it's a crack baby. It's a it's

382
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Speaker 4: a it's a baby that's addicted to whatever the mother's

383
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Speaker 4: addicted to.

384
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Speaker 1: So the baby's born dependent on the substance that it

385
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Speaker 1: was exposed.

386
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Speaker 2: So where does this term crack baby come from?

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Speaker 1: That?

388
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Speaker 3: So I've been doing this for thirty two years.

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Speaker 1: I never in Arizona when I started, I never saw

390
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Speaker 1: a baby a crack baby. I saw those on the

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Speaker 1: crack or yeah I.

392
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Speaker 2: Need, but it's.

393
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Speaker 1: It is I guess it is.

394
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Speaker 2: I'm crack. Heroin oxy whatever.

395
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:12,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, heroin, any opiate is what you see them withdraw from. Now,

396
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:18,960
Speaker 1: with cocaine, babies don't withdraw per se, like we don't

397
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Speaker 1: see them. If if I have a baby that mom

398
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:26,960
Speaker 1: was struggling with cocaine use, you don't see a baby

399
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:28,720
Speaker 1: go through withdrawal.

400
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Speaker 2: So what is the effect with them?

401
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:31,719
Speaker 4: Uh?

402
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Speaker 3: Probably developmental delays later on.

403
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:39,040
Speaker 1: But there's a risk of preterm delivery of a placental abruption,

404
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:43,800
Speaker 1: which means the inside the baby, the placentials away from

405
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:48,280
Speaker 1: the mom the wall and they could bleed out. Those

406
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:51,600
Speaker 1: are the things for cocaine. So if you have those

407
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,879
Speaker 1: things happen, you sually We're doing a drug screen and going, okay,

408
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,760
Speaker 1: what were they doing? Before, because that's really that's one

409
00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:00,280
Speaker 1: of the biggest risks. But with an open be it,

410
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:03,800
Speaker 1: they're going to withdraw just like an adult would withdraw.

411
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,000
Speaker 2: So let's talk about the science of that real quick.

412
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Speaker 4: I am a football coach and a lumberman, so I

413
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:15,760
Speaker 4: don't know the first clue what's going on inside our bodies,

414
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:17,840
Speaker 4: and I sure don't know what's going on inside a

415
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:22,640
Speaker 4: woman's body. But I have a lot of machinery at work,

416
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 4: so I seem to correlate everything to machines, and the

417
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:29,359
Speaker 4: body is a machine. So let me get this right

418
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:35,360
Speaker 4: and correct me where I'm wrong. A woman injests and opiate,

419
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:40,400
Speaker 4: all right, and it gets into her system, and then

420
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:45,560
Speaker 4: from her system it travels down the umbilical cord and

421
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:51,679
Speaker 4: then feeds into the baby's system. So when a pregnant

422
00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:59,760
Speaker 4: woman is doing oxy or heroin or whatever, fl fentanyl

423
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:01,440
Speaker 4: is a big one.

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00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:03,600
Speaker 3: I don't see heroin, okay.

425
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 4: So Finanahl. Ultimately, whatever she's ingesting ends up traveling thembiblical

426
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 4: cord into the baby's system, and so the baby is

427
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,120
Speaker 4: now high or the fetus the.

428
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:19,680
Speaker 3: Baby is exposed.

429
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Speaker 1: So if you think of an attic, so I love

430
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:26,240
Speaker 1: my diet coke.

431
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 3: I want my diet coke.

432
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:29,880
Speaker 1: I want my diet coke.

433
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 3: You know, it's like three o'clock in the afternoon.

434
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 2: I want my.

435
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 3: Diet coke and my peanut M and M's. And I'm happy.

436
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,280
Speaker 2: Can you and I high five?

437
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,680
Speaker 4: I love that coca peanut M and M's. It's the

438
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,119
Speaker 4: worst thing for a fat guy on the face of

439
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:45,680
Speaker 4: the planet. And I have to fight it off.

440
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,439
Speaker 2: Yeah. And then my wife over July, Lisa.

441
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:52,680
Speaker 4: July fourth, our business shuts down, and so she that's

442
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 4: we shut down for maintenance. And Lisa always comes in

443
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,160
Speaker 4: over July fourth and over Christmas break and she gives

444
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:01,919
Speaker 4: the office a you a good cleaning, and she'll put

445
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:05,000
Speaker 4: a new lamp on a table and change light bulbs.

446
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:05,399
Speaker 2: And really clean up.

447
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,119
Speaker 4: So just this, you know, pastor fourth, we were doing that,

448
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 4: and she got two big jars. Here I am, I've

449
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 4: lost thirty eight pounds and I'm trying. Yeah, thank you

450
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 4: very much before I just die of a massive corner.

451
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,720
Speaker 4: And he drops some weight. And so she fills up

452
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 4: two jars, one of dumb dumbs and starburs and the

453
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:28,920
Speaker 4: other of peanut loo. There's seven pounds of peanut m

454
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,440
Speaker 4: and ms outside the door of my office and I

455
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 4: have to walk. You talk about willpower, will power, So

456
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,119
Speaker 4: I get it. So you've got this diet coke, peanut

457
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:39,440
Speaker 4: eminem addiction.

458
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:41,680
Speaker 1: You know, like I I want that, you crave it,

459
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:46,680
Speaker 1: you want it? A A person with opiate use disorder

460
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 1: aka addiction.

461
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 2: To an opiate opiate use addiction.

462
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 1: Just one, yeah, opiate use disorder. So like if I

463
00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 1: have diabetes, I have diabetes melitis. That's the Dike nosis.

464
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 1: Someone that's addicted to opiates has opiate use disorder, Okay, And.

465
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 3: It's because it is a disease. It's not a the

466
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 3: brain changes.

467
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 1: You're you're not giving yourself after you've taken an opiate.

468
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 1: Your body doesn't make dopamine. Dopamine is our happy juice.

469
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 1: Dopamine is when you know, people say you go for

470
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:24,520
Speaker 1: a run and you hit that runners I've never met it,

471
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 1: but when people run and they get that runners high,

472
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 1: they release dopamine and they're feeling good.

473
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:31,480
Speaker 3: They're like, oh my gosh, I feel great.

474
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 2: Just like that's how that's how I feel when we

475
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 2: pick up a first down on a team.

476
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 1: I'm yes, yes, it is.

477
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:40,879
Speaker 3: It's like where like that's it's.

478
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 4: Third and twelve, and I'll call a play that our

479
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 4: guys pick up first down. I mean, I feel like elated, yes,

480
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 4: and that's.

481
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 1: Your happy juice. And so when someone's taken an opiate

482
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:53,360
Speaker 1: for now, it's showing for like three days. If you're

483
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 1: just taken for three days, your body can stop making

484
00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:01,359
Speaker 1: that dopamine forever. It can for enough wherever, but for

485
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 1: it can it can it can depress it.

486
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 2: And so some of us have that.

487
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:10,679
Speaker 3: That gene, I guess, I don't know, have that.

488
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 1: Tolerance or tendency that could have a dependence on opiate,

489
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 1: which would lead to an addiction. Meaning you're not feeling good,

490
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 1: so you're craving it. You know that if I take that,

491
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 1: I'm going to feel good immediately. I'll dumb it down

492
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:31,200
Speaker 1: even a little bit more. I had had a girlfriend.

493
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 1: We're at the gym working out, and she had a

494
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 1: ankle injury.

495
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 3: She is a go getter.

496
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 1: After three days of being at home, she's like, I'm

497
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,160
Speaker 1: coming back to the gym where like, Okay, you're gonna

498
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,360
Speaker 1: roll around on that one scooter and she goes, yeah,

499
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 1: I'm going to because I can't do this anymore. I'm

500
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 1: totally not myself. I want to just scream and pull

501
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:57,119
Speaker 1: my hair out and whatever.

502
00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 3: I'm like, huh.

503
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 1: And she's talking about how she's feeling, and she's like,

504
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:05,920
Speaker 1: I'm anxious, I'm sweating. I don't know what I'm doing.

505
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 1: Three days for her, three days of percoset that was prescribed,

506
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 1: and she goes. I told myself, I'm not taking it

507
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 1: anymore because it's not helping, and she was withdrawing, no kidding, Yes,

508
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 1: I go go home and just take it like a

509
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 1: quarter and see she was immediately better. She called me

510
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 1: and she said three days and so like for me

511
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 1: when I realized, oh my gosh, something needs to be done.

512
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 1: I had a mom that had three babies and I

513
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 1: met her on the third baby and the other two

514
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 1: were out of home because she had a substance use

515
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 1: disorder and had lost them.

516
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 3: And I was like, what happened? After baby number two?

517
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 3: She had a C section.

518
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 1: We sent her home with thirty days a perposet. She

519
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 1: took him as directed, and at thirty days.

520
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 3: We didn't give her anymore.

521
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 1: She's sick, vomiting diarrhea, can't get up, has no happy juice, nothing,

522
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 1: She doesn't feel good. And you're embarrassed. You have a

523
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 1: brand new baby. Who are you going to tell you

524
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 1: that you have an issue? And this is you know,

525
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 1: back then we didn't do much counseling. Now I counsel away.

526
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 1: I'm like, if you can get away with ibuprofen or

527
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 1: thailant all or alternating, that you please do. You don't

528
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 1: need to pick up an opiate to do it. Now,

529
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 1: there are times that you need an opiate, but you

530
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 1: also need to know the signs and symptoms of withdrawal,

531
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 1: what that looks like, and if you are going to withdraw,

532
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 1: having those interactions with your provider to go, I really am,

533
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 1: I have a tolerance.

534
00:29:57,720 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 2: We'll be right back.

535
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 4: So the question then is does the science tell us

536
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 4: that if expected mother is ingesting opiates, it's the same

537
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 4: thing happened to the fetuses dopamine production.

538
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 1: I don't.

539
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 3: I don't know that it does.

540
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 1: The dopamine production for a fetus. The fetus is worn dependent.

541
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 1: So they're not like craving it. They're not going give

542
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 1: me this this drug to make me feel better. They

543
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 1: have no idea.

544
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 2: They're just even an eight month even an eight month no,

545
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 2: they just know.

546
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 3: They're with drawing. They don't know that that if I

547
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 3: take this, it's going to make me feel better.

548
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:56,719
Speaker 4: Okay, okay, So then the child is birthed, all right,

549
00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 4: and the stuff is still in their system at far,

550
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 4: and then when the stuff finally works its way through

551
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 4: the system. That's why you're saying, twenty four hours later,

552
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 4: this infant is actually experiencing the same withdrawals that an

553
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 4: addicted I don't know all the right nomenclature, but an

554
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 4: addicted person would be experiencing if they.

555
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 2: Drop their drugs.

556
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,480
Speaker 4: And so this is painful, this head oach, this head oach,

557
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 4: and flu like symptoms times one hundred are going on

558
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 4: for this one day old.

559
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 2: So what is this child doing?

560
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 1: What?

561
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 2: What are the symptoms for the childhood?

562
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 1: They also bringing vomiting, diarrhea, can't sleep, sweating, jittery shakes, fever, cold,

563
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 1: you know, they get hot, then they get cold. They

564
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 1: can have seizures.

565
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 3: It's it's horrid to.

566
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 4: Wark breaking, it is, and we still child deserves to

567
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 4: be introduced to the world in that shape.

568
00:31:55,360 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. Do the parents or the muttered know what she's

569
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 2: done to her baby?

570
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 3: Yes, they absolutely know, and they feel horrible.

571
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.

572
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 2: Okay, So pre your world now, yeah, the hospital treats us.

573
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 1: How we put babies in the Neonatal Intensive carr Unit.

574
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 1: So think of you have the worst flue in migraine

575
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,719
Speaker 1: and I am. We're going to go to ACDC together.

576
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 1: We're not going to go to a rock concert. Bebe

577
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 1: you know, flashing lights really loud. The Neonatal Intensive carry

578
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 1: unit bright lights beeby monitors to care for babies.

579
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 4: And you got a migraine, so that beeping and those

580
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 4: lights is intensified as what you're saying.

581
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 2: Yep.

582
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 1: And we put them in that environment because that's where

583
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 1: we take care of sick babies. And what I found

584
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 1: was that gosh, if I bring them into the closet

585
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 1: and then make it completely dark, which I did, I

586
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 1: could get them calm down. And it was like, oh

587
00:32:57,960 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 1: my gosh, maybe I don't need to give you an

588
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 1: open to slowly wean you off.

589
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 2: So is that what That's what I'm saying.

590
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 3: What do they do to treat give them morphine or methadone.

591
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 4: So different places give a baby methadone or morph I

592
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 4: guess that's the only pharmaceutical available.

593
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 3: Correct, And we do it every three hours.

594
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 1: So prior to twenty seventeen, every baby that came into

595
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 1: our Neonatal INTENSEI Curity unit, if they were born opiate

596
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 1: exposed dependent and going through that withdraw process. We just

597
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 1: I as a practitioner, I'd write the order. Here's a

598
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 1: morphine point oh five milligrams per kilo every three hours,

599
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 1: and in forty eight hours, we'll look at you and

600
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 1: see if.

601
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 3: We're going to decrease it.

602
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 4: Does the morphine chill the baby out from scrap It

603
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 4: kind of numbs them, It.

604
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 1: Makes them go to sleep, Yeah, makes them be quiet.

605
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 3: So methadone is a.

606
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 1: Medication.

607
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 3: Prescribe medication that is also an opiate.

608
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 1: It's used most commonly for people adults for opiate use disorder.

609
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 1: So those that are struggling with substance uses that is

610
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 1: an opiate, we transition them or and prescribe them methadone

611
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 1: for them to be stable.

612
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 4: Is that a lower grade? Is it like a pyramiding down?

613
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 4: Is that a lower grade opiate? I mean, how that's

614
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 4: going from one opiate to another?

615
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:27,120
Speaker 2: Help? I don't understand.

616
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:31,600
Speaker 1: Methadone is the it's the gold standard of care. But

617
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 1: you can you can be stable on methadone and not

618
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:38,759
Speaker 1: be under the influence. Oh if that makes sense. So

619
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 1: like with diabetes, well.

620
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 2: Then do you get addicted and you have stick on methodone.

621
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 3: Your own and you have you have to touch down?

622
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 3: You do, you have to touch down. But if you

623
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 3: think of it this way, So think of diabetes. I

624
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:55,400
Speaker 3: I have I way overweight. I go into the hospital.

625
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 3: I'm in a coma. They check my blood sugar at

626
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:00,880
Speaker 3: sky high. I get diagnosed with diabetes.

627
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 1: Then they keep me in the hospital for you know,

628
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 1: a week, meet with the dietician, get me on insulin,

629
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 1: do everything.

630
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:08,800
Speaker 3: They're like, Okay, this is what we're gonna do.

631
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 1: They're gonna stabilize you, They're going to get you with

632
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,400
Speaker 1: nutritioness all of these different characiters.

633
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:14,920
Speaker 3: Make sure that you live and you do good.

634
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 1: You may be on your insulin forever from that point on,

635
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 1: or you may go home, work out, lose weight, change

636
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 1: your diet and slowly you take your insulin away. Someone

637
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 1: with obit use disorder, you overdose, You show up in

638
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:36,239
Speaker 1: the emergency room. And what we do and still do

639
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 1: to this day, is we give them an our cam,

640
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:42,319
Speaker 1: we revive them, and we let them go. We don't

641
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:44,400
Speaker 1: meet with the social worker, we don't meet with the

642
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:48,480
Speaker 1: addictions specialists. We don't get them started on methadone. We

643
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:53,359
Speaker 1: just go, you're not a great person. We saved your life.

644
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:54,879
Speaker 3: You're lucky. We saved your life.

645
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 2: Go, we'll see you next week and that's or tomorrow.

646
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 1: That's what it's going to happen. I think we're now

647
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:08,799
Speaker 1: getting better at learning to have those conversations that are

648
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,960
Speaker 1: really difficult, which really they're not that difficult if we

649
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:17,280
Speaker 1: didn't have such a stigma against it. But for someone

650
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 1: with opi use disorder, the gold standard of care is

651
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:24,279
Speaker 1: getting them stable on medication as sister treatment or medications

652
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 1: for obi use disorder, which most commonly methadone or suboxine.

653
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:33,320
Speaker 1: There's vivatrol. There's different ways to get them transitioned to that.

654
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 1: So you get them transitioned on those medications, they can

655
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:41,359
Speaker 1: parent successfully, they can work. They can The only thing

656
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:45,439
Speaker 1: you cannot do being prescribed methodone is conduct a train

657
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 1: and be an airline pilot.

658
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 3: That's it. Everything else you could.

659
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 1: I could be on it right now and you wouldn't

660
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 1: have a clue if it's at an appropriate dose.

661
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:57,840
Speaker 3: Now here and there, May I go up, may I

662
00:36:57,920 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 3: go down? I may go up?

663
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:00,759
Speaker 1: I may go down and just depends on what my

664
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 1: hormones are doing. You never know if you're under stress.

665
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 1: As I want to maybe get off, I need to

666
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:11,879
Speaker 1: increase my behavior health services. I need to make sure

667
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 1: that I'm really getting to the trauma that maybe got

668
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:17,399
Speaker 1: me to where I am right now.

669
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:21,200
Speaker 3: And you see those get off.

670
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:23,839
Speaker 1: I have a pure support that works with me right now,

671
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 1: and he's now on week.

672
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 3: Four of being off.

673
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 1: But I met him five years ago and he was

674
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:30,799
Speaker 1: on methadone for five years.

675
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:32,759
Speaker 2: How does an infant do that?

676
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 3: Though an infant?

677
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 1: So in Arizona we use morphine. Other places in the

678
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:44,279
Speaker 1: country some use methodome methadone, so you have to teeter

679
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 1: off even slower. In Arizona we do it, you know,

680
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 1: like you wean by ten to twenty percent every couple days.

681
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 1: You just kind of see what their doses, what they're

682
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:58,239
Speaker 1: gonna need, and you go up and down and up

683
00:37:58,280 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 1: and down.

684
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 3: But what we've found is that if you put them

685
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 3: in the right.

686
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:07,320
Speaker 1: Environment, in a quiet, dark environment, like I go on

687
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,839
Speaker 1: my basement when I don't feel good, I turn out

688
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:11,800
Speaker 1: the lights and if I fall asleep, please do not

689
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 1: wake me up. When I wake up hopefully I feel

690
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 1: better when I have the flu. That's just like a

691
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:19,719
Speaker 1: baby when they're going through that withdrawal process. When they

692
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 1: wake up, they need someone there immediately, not someone that

693
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:28,600
Speaker 1: is taking care of this baby that's a pound that's

694
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:31,759
Speaker 1: gonna die if they don't get to them, versus this

695
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:34,360
Speaker 1: baby that's just gonna scream and in the nick you

696
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 1: this baby that's gonna scream is not gonna die. I

697
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:40,520
Speaker 1: will get to them, but I have to deal with

698
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:41,800
Speaker 1: the baby that's not breathing.

699
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 4: So I just I have the hardest time even thinking

700
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 4: that babies are born into the world with.

701
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 2: This, but they are.

702
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, let me tell you.

703
00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:01,759
Speaker 1: So someone that's struggling with with subsidence use if they

704
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:06,800
Speaker 1: go cold turkey, so they're struggling with vental use. This

705
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 1: happens all the time. Families come in they're like, send

706
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 1: me to detex I just take me off. They're at

707
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:19,239
Speaker 1: risk for preterm delivery because it's so stressful. It's such

708
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,759
Speaker 1: a hard process to detax. So it is not a

709
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:26,360
Speaker 1: recommended It is not the gold standard of care for

710
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 1: a pregnant mom with OPA use disorder to go cold turkey.

711
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 1: What the gold standard of care is is to transition

712
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 1: her onto methadone. And you can be on methadone and

713
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 1: be prescribed methadone for years and have babies that are

714
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:47,920
Speaker 1: still going to go through this process. Are the parents

715
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:51,800
Speaker 1: awful parents? They're not awful parents. They have a brain disease,

716
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 1: a chronic illness. That yeah, that medication their side effects.

717
00:39:57,120 --> 00:40:00,239
Speaker 1: I have epilepsy, I have a brain disease. There's side

718
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:03,279
Speaker 1: effects to my medication that I take care every day

719
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 1: that my kids could have had midline defects from my medication.

720
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:12,839
Speaker 1: But did anyone say you shouldn't have babies? No? Did

721
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 1: I do roulette? I did, and thank goodness, they were okay,

722
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 1: kind of the same. Not mine is more. Uh. People go,

723
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 1: oh darn, you have epilepsy. But someone with OPI used

724
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 1: to sort of we look at them like, you make

725
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 1: really bad choices.

726
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:41,720
Speaker 4: And that concludes part one of my conversation with Tera Sundam,

727
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:43,920
Speaker 4: and you don't want to miss part two that's now

728
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 4: available to listen to as the story of Hush a

729
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:52,760
Speaker 4: by Nursery. It's coming together, guys. We can change this country,

730
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 4: but it starts with you. I'll see in part two