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Thank you, zip Recruiter. Climb stories 25 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph Channel one thirty two, 26 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: Casey Anthony's parents are threatening to take a legal action 27 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: against their daughter. I don't think it will overcome to that. 28 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: I don't think she'll sell her story Reality Shone, even 29 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:03,919 Speaker 1: if show with her and O. J. Simpson. Cindy Anthony 30 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: also telling TV host Chris Hansen that Casey might not 31 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 1: remember what happened to her daughter Kayley because she might 32 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 1: have blacked out during a seizure. Yes, I think Casey 33 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:23,839 Speaker 1: has been employeel. Does it never end with Todd Mom 34 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 1: Casey Anthony? She has reared her head again. You know, 35 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 1: you think if you were acquitted, if you managed to 36 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 1: escape with your own skin after being charged in the 37 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 1: murder of your taught daughter Kelly, with overwhelming evidence of guilt, 38 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 1: you get off. But then you keep making the headlines, 39 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 1: whether it's bragging that men still buy you drinks in bars, 40 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 1: to you know, showing up at birthday parties in whoop, 41 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 1: see getting your picture on the front page of the paper. 42 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 1: I mean, it just it just seems to never go away. 43 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 1: I mean, see Grace, this is crime Stories, and yes, 44 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: tought Mom Casey Anthony is back with word that there 45 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 1: is a planned reality TV series with their daughter taught 46 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:23,640 Speaker 1: Mom Casey Anthony and possibly even O. J. Simpson. You 47 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 1: know right now they're they're claiming that they would sue 48 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:31,920 Speaker 1: her if she tries to do a reality show based 49 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 1: on what maybe intentional infliction of emotional distress, but I 50 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 1: don't know what grounds they would have to sue her on. 51 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 1: But not only that, they say that if tot Mom 52 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 1: killed her daughter, then she may have blacked out or 53 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 1: was mentally ill? What mentally ill? For that one hour? 54 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: Let's take a listen to what taught Mom Casey aunt 55 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 1: and these parents have just said. We know we're going 56 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 1: to pin on you because you need to fall on 57 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 1: the sword for your daughter. You need to do this. 58 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 1: I said, wait, wait, wait, wait, The defense attorney said, 59 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 1: do you you need to fall on the sword. I 60 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 1: need to fall on the sword from my way, I 61 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 1: need to take responsibility and claim that what responsibility the 62 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 1: reason why Kaylee wasn't here with us anymore, the reason 63 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 1: why she's gone. Do you think looking back, she was 64 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 1: mentally ill? Yes, I think Casey is mentally ill. I 65 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:29,360 Speaker 1: really do. I think Casey's mentally ill. She's never had 66 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: her seizures worked up. You think Casey had a seizure 67 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 1: potentially and didn't even know what happened to Kaylee. That's 68 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 1: a possibility, and she doesn't remember when she has seizures 69 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 1: unless she knows she has been her tongue or something. 70 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 1: Would you support a lawsuit against your daughter? I don't 71 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: think it will overcome to that. I don't think she'll 72 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:54,159 Speaker 1: sell her story. George seems to think that it might, 73 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:58,359 Speaker 1: and now there are rumors of reality shows, even a 74 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:03,479 Speaker 1: show with her and O. J. Simpson. What do you 75 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:06,159 Speaker 1: say to that if it came down to that, I 76 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:09,280 Speaker 1: probably would. She's talking about Keyley still being with her 77 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 1: a part of her life and perhaps having another child. 78 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:16,720 Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know where she could have 79 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 1: another child with. It wouldn't be anywhere in the United 80 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: States of America. Who knows. Maybe some of the country 81 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: would accept her. She's had boyfriends. Since she's gotten out, 82 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 1: tell me about the suicide adept From the time that 83 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 1: Kaylee we were told to Kaylee was missing, taken with Zanny, whatever, 84 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 1: whomever she was with. I didn't feel I did enough 85 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 1: to go find her. Did you want to die? I 86 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 1: wanted to be with her. I want even to this day, 87 00:05:56,400 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 1: she should be here, not me. I've seen Hayley on 88 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 1: a couple of occasions. Oh, no, I've seen her. I've 89 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:10,599 Speaker 1: seen her in the flesh. I've seen her in my house. 90 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 1: One time she woke me up in the morning to 91 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 1: tap one on with her little finger like she used 92 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 1: to do this part. Was this a dream? It wasn't 93 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 1: a dream. It was it was like you and I 94 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 1: are talking right now. How do you explain that the 95 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 1: strong spirit that's in our house was their imagination? Oh 96 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:29,839 Speaker 1: that's not an imagination. That that's that's love, and that's 97 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: that's a connection that I wish more people could have. 98 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:38,119 Speaker 1: Is she a killer? Do you think she intentionally wanted 99 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:43,159 Speaker 1: to kill Caylee? If Casey is watching this, what is 100 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 1: your message to her? Stay away, stay away from me. 101 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:49,599 Speaker 1: If she wants to have a relationship again with her mom, 102 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 1: she's got a lot of explain to do, but I don't. 103 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 1: I don't want to hear it no more from her. 104 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:56,160 Speaker 1: I don't want to see her. Cindy, If Casey is 105 00:06:56,200 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: watching this, what do you say to her? Case be 106 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 1: true to yourself, start being honest with yourself and own everything. 107 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 1: Equip flitting, blame on everybody else that is so full 108 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 1: of issues and problems. I hardly know where to start. 109 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 1: Joining me now is Steve Helling from People magazine and Bremner, 110 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: high profile lawyer out of Seattle, Karen Stark, renowned psychologists 111 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 1: from New York, and of course Alan Duke from l A. 112 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 1: Steve Helling first to you, how did this whole thing unfold? 113 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 1: What do you make of the stories that Todd Mom 114 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:45,559 Speaker 1: Casey Anthony has been approached to do a reality show? 115 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 1: You know, we don't know about specific offers, but we 116 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 1: do know that there's always been interest in Casey Anthony. 117 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 1: And you know, whenever anybody does anything on her, you 118 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 1: know it gets attention. So of course reality TV producers, 119 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 1: who all they're looking for is the next big audience, 120 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 1: will look into somebody like Casey Anthony and wonder is 121 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 1: this worth doing? And I think that's what's happening here? 122 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 1: You know, to Karen Stark psychologists, somehow it just seems wrong. Um, 123 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 1: It's like with O. J. Simpson. Yes, they were acquitted, 124 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 1: but the evidence was overwhelming that they were guilty, and 125 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 1: it just seems wrong that she would now make money, 126 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 1: really blood money off her daughter's death without a doubt, Nancy, 127 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 1: that would be a terrible problem. And I have a 128 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:36,320 Speaker 1: feeling that even though she gets tremendous attention, if she 129 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:40,439 Speaker 1: were to do a reality show like that, people would, Um, 130 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:43,080 Speaker 1: there would be a huge group of people that would 131 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 1: be outraged because it is wrong. Steve Hewing, does Todd 132 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 1: Mom have a civil verdict taking over her head? Yes? 133 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:54,680 Speaker 1: Right now she is has allegedly sold the rights to 134 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: her life story for dollars to pay back her bankruptcy. 135 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 1: But the thing is, what is her life story count for? 136 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 1: I mean, we were talking about stuff that happened in 137 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 1: the past. Did she sign away her rights to do 138 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: something about her life now? We don't know what all 139 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 1: the legalities would be. Well, my question is does she 140 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 1: currently have like O. J. Simpson has a thirty plus 141 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 1: million dollar verdict civil judgment hanging over him. It's a yes, no, 142 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:25,680 Speaker 1: does she have a similar judgment hanging over her No, 143 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 1: she does not unless someone sued her like her parents. 144 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 1: If they sued her and one, which I think they 145 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 1: would in a civil case, just like in Simpson, she 146 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 1: would have a multimillion dollar verdict hanging over her head. Also, 147 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 1: she could be forced to take the stand. I want 148 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:48,840 Speaker 1: you to listen to something specific that George Anthony. You 149 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:52,559 Speaker 1: were hearing George and Cindy Anthony speaking earlier with Chris Hansen. 150 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:58,080 Speaker 1: Take a listen to what George said specifically about being 151 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 1: told he had to quote fall on his sword and 152 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: take the blame for his daughter. Listen, so we know 153 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:09,319 Speaker 1: we're gonna pinder on you because you need to fall 154 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 1: on the sword for your daughter. You need to do this. 155 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 1: I said, wait, wait, the defense attorney said, do you 156 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 1: you need to fall in the sword? I need to 157 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 1: fall in the sword from my I need to take 158 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 1: responsibility and claimed that what responsibility? The reason why Kayley 159 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 1: wasn't here with us anymore, the reason why she's gone 160 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 1: out to high profile Seattle lawyer both criminal and civil 161 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 1: and Bremner joining us and again, thank you for being 162 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:38,200 Speaker 1: with us. And I find that very very revealing because 163 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 1: if anybody else had done it, they would have been 164 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:47,040 Speaker 1: running down that alley that avenue. Let's prove somebody else 165 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:49,840 Speaker 1: did it. But instead, at one juncture, the plan was 166 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 1: to blame George when they knew he didn't do it, 167 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 1: but they were willing to stand in front of a 168 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 1: jury and suggest that George Anthony killed Keiley or that 169 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:03,680 Speaker 1: he was responsible. And and Nancy is always a pleasure 170 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:05,560 Speaker 1: to be on with you. Thanks for having me, I know. 171 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 1: And the thing is, remember Anthy. They called George to 172 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 1: the stand over and over and over again, and they 173 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 1: had the opening statement, say bias did where he talked 174 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: about George and the pool and everything else and the 175 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 1: molestation issue allegation. Wait, let's just put it out there 176 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 1: for people that don't know the defense Todd Mom Casey. 177 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 1: Anthony's defense tried to suggest that George Anthony had molested 178 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 1: top Mom Casey. I don't believe that for a minute. 179 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:37,600 Speaker 1: I have met with them, I know them, and I 180 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 1: don't believe it. Now who am I supposed to believe 181 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 1: top Mom Casey Anthony or George Anthony the former cop. 182 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 1: She also to another reason that I don't believe her, 183 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 1: And Bremner is she blamed, said her did she say 184 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 1: her brother tried to molest her too? That was out 185 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:56,960 Speaker 1: there too, I mean it was. It was just outrageous. 186 00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 1: And remember there was a graphic description in the opening 187 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 1: statement was a bias about at least one sex act. 188 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:06,439 Speaker 1: But between the George inflicted on her on Casey and 189 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:09,560 Speaker 1: all the stuff about, you know, the denying of pregnancy 190 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:11,680 Speaker 1: and the weirdness in the house and everything else. He 191 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 1: painted this picture and opening statement was pretty compelling, and 192 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 1: he never batched up with any evidence. But George was 193 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 1: the culprit for sure. There was never any evidence at 194 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 1: all that George Anthony did any of that. So I 195 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 1: guess what they concocted in their defense strategy meetings was 196 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 1: a let's blame somebody else. First, there was Zanny the nanny, 197 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 1: who turned out didn't exist, So when it turned out 198 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:41,200 Speaker 1: she didn't exist, they had to find somebody else to blame. 199 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: That was suit top Mom originally blamed, remember that, Steve Helling. 200 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 1: Her first story was Zanny the nanny who had been 201 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:52,839 Speaker 1: taking care of the baby all this time. I mean 202 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 1: she had been living this lie for you know, a year, 203 00:12:57,160 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: telling her parents that Zanny the nanny had the baby 204 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:03,080 Speaker 1: when really she was chloroforming the baby with homemade chloroform 205 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 1: and putting her in the trunk. And that was a 206 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 1: big fat lie, I guess, so Steve Helling. When they 207 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 1: found out, when the defense found out there was really 208 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:13,320 Speaker 1: nos any that nanny, that probably took him a couple 209 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:15,559 Speaker 1: of months to get that out of Top Mom. They 210 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 1: had to blame somebody, Steve. Well, yeah, exactly. And you 211 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 1: know that's the thing about Casey is that we you know, 212 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:24,560 Speaker 1: for anybody who doesn't right you on a first name basis, 213 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 1: it seems like it because I've covered her. Yeah, well 214 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:34,559 Speaker 1: you're not, okay, are you mad? Right, Steve? You're married, right, 215 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:38,320 Speaker 1: happily with children, with children. Yes, I doubt that your 216 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 1: wife wants you on a first name basis with top 217 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 1: Mom Casey Anthony. So just you can stop that now, Okay, 218 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:47,719 Speaker 1: you can call our top mom Anthony, how about that? 219 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 1: But yeah, the thing is that Anthony first name basis. 220 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 1: You know, I'm protecting you from yourself. Well, thank you. 221 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 1: I appreciate that that. Nancy know. The thing about it 222 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:01,560 Speaker 1: is that she came gave so many stories and for 223 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 1: anybody who wasn't around in two thousand eight. It just 224 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:06,720 Speaker 1: seemed like every week there was a new story and 225 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:08,440 Speaker 1: there was something new that she had to say, and 226 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 1: it was never true. So you know, even now, if 227 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 1: we talk about what what's going on in her life, 228 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 1: we don't even know that anything that she says now 229 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 1: is true. Reality show. We don't know if it's true 230 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 1: because Casey makes up stories. Miss Anthony makes up stories. 231 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 1: I should say, Okay, let let me go back to 232 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 1: some of the lies at trial. Okay, because not I 233 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 1: don't particularly care about rehashing them. But when you don't 234 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 1: know a horse, look at their track record. Okay, so 235 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 1: it all started, and help me out. Anne Bremner, Karen Start, 236 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 1: Steve Helen from People magazine. Because there's so many, I 237 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 1: actually believe it or not, may not even remember them all, 238 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 1: so taught mom. Casey Anthony has been living with her parents. 239 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 1: She started something years old, sitting home, mating ships all day. 240 00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: She has the baby, won't tell who the dad is, 241 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 1: so she doesn't any child's support. I don't give a 242 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:04,680 Speaker 1: flying fig who the dad is, and I'm not judging. 243 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 1: I don't care. I mean, even mother Mary was pregnant 244 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 1: before she got married. Okay, so that's what I think 245 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 1: about that. There's no shame at all attached to in 246 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: my mind having a baby um in our society, I 247 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 1: think it's better to be married because you get judged 248 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 1: if you're not. But in this case, I find it 249 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:33,680 Speaker 1: important because she could have gotten child's support for Pete's sake, 250 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 1: said of her parents having to foot the bill anyway. 251 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 1: So she's at home eating chips with the baby, won't 252 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 1: say who the dad is and a child's support. She 253 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 1: says the whole time, Steve Helling, that she has a 254 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 1: job at Universal. She even puts on a fake ID 255 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: in a little uniform and goes to quote work end quote. 256 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 1: That's a big fat lie, Steve Helling. All this time, 257 00:15:57,160 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 1: she never had a job. She's just pretending and leaves 258 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 1: the house, leaves the baby with them, right yeah. And 259 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 1: that's the crazy thing about it is that, if you recall, 260 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 1: she even took the cops on this weird back lot 261 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 1: tour of Universal, saying, oh, I work here, and then 262 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 1: finally when nobody recognized her, she had to say, Okay, no, 263 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 1: I don't actually work here. Wait wait, wait, hold on, 264 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 1: hold on, hold on, you're right Karen Stark and am 265 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 1: Brim refers to you, Karen sadly and as valuable as 266 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 1: I think your trial strategy is. I've got to go 267 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 1: to a shrink on this. I mean, Karen, start, it's 268 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 1: one thing to start a lie. I used to read 269 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 1: a little book from Veggietals to the children, and they 270 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 1: were little called Larry's Big Fib. And he starts to 271 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 1: a lie. And then he has to keep feeding the 272 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 1: lie or everybody will found out he lied, so he 273 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 1: has stuck with his line. He gets bigger and bigger 274 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 1: and bigger until it threatens to eat everybody. Okay, then 275 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 1: he finally tells the truth. I mean, wait a minute. 276 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 1: So you tell your parents a lie so they'll have 277 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 1: to take care of the baby while you go to 278 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 1: work your fake job. But then your baby goes missing 279 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:04,399 Speaker 1: and police are working with you to find the baby, 280 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 1: and you continue the lie. You go all the way 281 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,720 Speaker 1: to Universal Security Gate and make out the names of 282 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 1: people that you work with, and they try to call 283 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 1: your your extension blah blah. Well, at what point do 284 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:21,399 Speaker 1: you find they go in and try to find these people. 285 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:25,639 Speaker 1: She's going along with it. When do you finally break 286 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:29,120 Speaker 1: down and tell the truth. Well, the question Nancy would 287 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:32,640 Speaker 1: be does she understand what the truth is? And pathological 288 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:37,119 Speaker 1: liars that's how you know that they're psychosis involved with 289 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:40,679 Speaker 1: it is they believe their own lives. And clearly in 290 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 1: the case any Karen, she finally said, Okay, you got me, 291 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 1: like she's kind of laughing, Okay, I don't really work here. 292 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:54,639 Speaker 1: So the whole not knowing the truth that's b s 293 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 1: because she did know the truth. She said, okay, you 294 00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 1: got me. They Nancy, I still don't know where my 295 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:05,240 Speaker 1: daughter is. He knows on some level she knows the truth, 296 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:09,359 Speaker 1: but she is so good at lying that on another level, 297 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:12,640 Speaker 1: the mind is very complicated. She can believe her own 298 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 1: lies and then she gets caught and she has to 299 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 1: admit yet it is a lie. Then she admits it 300 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: to herself, but she'll go from that to then making 301 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:26,119 Speaker 1: up another lie and another lie. It's how she lives 302 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:30,879 Speaker 1: her life. This is normal for her. Well, normal doesn't 303 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:34,720 Speaker 1: mean she doesn't know she's lying, and Bremner high profiles 304 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 1: while she's saying it, she believes it. And I don't 305 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 1: think for one minute she believed any of these lies, 306 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 1: because as soon as she's caught, she's going, okay, alright, alright, 307 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:48,640 Speaker 1: I was lying, you got me, But I didn't kill 308 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 1: my daughter. I'm really telling the truth about that. The 309 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 1: whole time she okay, the baby goes missing and Bremner 310 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:00,240 Speaker 1: and she goes and moves in with a boyfriend in 311 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 1: all of his y mates. I'm sure they were all 312 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 1: so happy together. Um, the whole time the baby wasn't 313 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 1: there the whole time she lived with him, and she 314 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 1: said Zanny the nanny had the baby, or her parents 315 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 1: had the baby, nobody had the baby. She sustained that 316 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:23,360 Speaker 1: lie day in day out for weeks on end, when 317 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 1: the I guess the baby was already killed and hidden 318 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 1: out in that swampy area near her old elementary school 319 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 1: where she used to go sneak off and smoke, or 320 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:39,879 Speaker 1: was in her trunk decaying. And well, absolutely when we 321 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:42,960 Speaker 1: heard that evidence in the trial about of course the 322 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:46,439 Speaker 1: um the issue that the evidence of the body had 323 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: probably been in the trunk for some time, remember back 324 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 1: in the backyard, and you know it wasn't about a 325 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,200 Speaker 1: month fancy. And the thing is the one thing though 326 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:57,119 Speaker 1: I thought that jose Bias did effectively on the lie 327 00:19:57,840 --> 00:19:59,920 Speaker 1: was that he basically turned it around on the prosecu 328 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:02,840 Speaker 1: and said she has all these imaginary friends. Remember he 329 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 1: grasped that all out, and that she lives in the 330 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:07,960 Speaker 1: fantasy world, and he made it all kind of seem 331 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 1: a little more plausible than being an outright lie, which 332 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 1: would indicate guilt. I mean, it's remember falseless and union 333 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,159 Speaker 1: unium falseless, implurium false and one false and all. If 334 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 1: he could twist it and make it not an outright 335 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:23,800 Speaker 1: lie but imagination, um, that's what we tried to do them. 336 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 1: I think he did it pretty effectively. Steve Holling, do 337 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 1: I need to give you some nase medicine about right now? 338 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:36,160 Speaker 1: You know, I've got a pretty strong stomach for all things, uh, 339 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:39,879 Speaker 1: miss Anthony these days, just because we've been dealing with 340 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 1: this now for nine years, so um, you know, it's 341 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 1: it's surprising that even now I can't wrap my head 342 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 1: around her pathology, with the way that she lied again 343 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 1: and again and again. I just don't understand. Well, you've 344 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 1: got Karen Stark saying, oh no, she really believed her 345 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 1: lies until she was called then she suddenly didn't believe 346 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 1: them anymore, and and Bremner saying it wasn't a lie, 347 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:10,200 Speaker 1: it was just a fantasy. Well, I know this Gailly's dead, 348 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:16,159 Speaker 1: and right now story circulating that Top Mom is about 349 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:19,880 Speaker 1: to launch a TV series. Now we've established that there's 350 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 1: no civil judgment hanging over her head. So she had 351 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 1: a TV series or a reality show, that money would 352 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 1: go in her pocket. Unlike O J. Simpson, he would 353 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:33,520 Speaker 1: go straight to the Browns, the Brown and Goldman families, 354 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 1: because he's got that civil judgment. So would her parents 355 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:41,960 Speaker 1: sue her? Take a listen to what they say. Would 356 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:45,040 Speaker 1: you support a lawsuit against your daughter? I don't think 357 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:47,200 Speaker 1: it will overcome to that. I don't think she'll sell 358 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:50,440 Speaker 1: her story. George seems to think that it might, and 359 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 1: now there are rumors of reality shows, even a show 360 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:58,240 Speaker 1: with her and O J. Simpson. Oh God, what do 361 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 1: you say to that? If came down to that, I 362 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 1: probably would. I want to pause quickly before we hear 363 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 1: what else George and Cindy Anthony have to say, and 364 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 1: thank our partner, our partner who makes theirs program possible. 365 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:17,240 Speaker 1: It's legal zoom. All you business owners know how important 366 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 1: it is to keep moving forward, but so often things 367 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 1: pop up that take your time and focus away from 368 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:30,200 Speaker 1: growing actually growing your business. Reviewing contracts registering trademarks, staying 369 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:36,600 Speaker 1: current on fees and permits, hiring contracts, taxes. Legal zoom 370 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 1: dot com can simplify your life. 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I want to go back to the shocking 386 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:49,879 Speaker 1: claim that Tottenham Casey Anthony is considering a reality show 387 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:52,199 Speaker 1: which she would get paid a lot of money for. 388 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 1: To Steve Helling with People magazine and Bremner, high profile 389 00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 1: lawyer out of Seattle, and Karen Stark psychologists from New 390 00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 1: York joining us along with Alan Deep Steve Helling. What 391 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:07,680 Speaker 1: is top Mom doing now? How she supporting herself? Well, 392 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 1: you know, she's living with her private investigator and she 393 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:14,679 Speaker 1: does legal work for him. And you mean the private 394 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 1: investigator from the O. J. Simpson defense team. Yes, one 395 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,680 Speaker 1: and the same Nancy. That's what I'm talking about. And 396 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:26,280 Speaker 1: so she lives down there and said Steve Helling, Steve Helling, 397 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,440 Speaker 1: do you know what my grandmother used to say, to 398 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 1: lay down with a dog, you'll wake up with Lee's. Okay. 399 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:38,000 Speaker 1: So birds of a feather flock together. I mean I 400 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 1: could go on and on and on. So the defense lawyer, 401 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:47,000 Speaker 1: investigator from O J. Simpson and Top Mom are living together. 402 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 1: Is that right? Yes? That is absolutely correct. Sounds like 403 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 1: two snakes in a barrel to me. Go ahead. And 404 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:58,040 Speaker 1: she does legal work for him, which basically is online research, 405 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:01,359 Speaker 1: which means that she's always online. I'm assuming that also 406 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:06,200 Speaker 1: includes googling herself all the time. Um, so there was that, 407 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,159 Speaker 1: and then I'm afraid to google myself. I'm afraid the 408 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,240 Speaker 1: twins might see it, okay, And that's the bottom line. 409 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:14,480 Speaker 1: That's what she does all day. She doesn't have a 410 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 1: wide circle of friends, you know now, and then we 411 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 1: see her out because pictures are mysteriously released. It's it's 412 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 1: really odd, Nancy, how often photographers just happened to be 413 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,480 Speaker 1: save Hell from People magazine. How much money do you 414 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 1: think she gets from tipping them off and giving them 415 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:33,200 Speaker 1: her candid photos? My guess is just a couple of 416 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,359 Speaker 1: thousand each time. It's not a couple of thousands each 417 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 1: time to go to a bar and have a drink. 418 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 1: She gets paid out. Yes, I believe completely because because 419 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,879 Speaker 1: you know these that's how this machine works, and she 420 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 1: has figured out how to be part of that machine. 421 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 1: And in the past, people from her team had contacted 422 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 1: me way back two thousand eleven, two twelve, you know, hey, 423 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,199 Speaker 1: there might be some pictures. Are you interested? And we 424 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 1: always said no, so they stopped coming to us, but 425 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:04,520 Speaker 1: they found other people who would you know, Am Bremner 426 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:06,480 Speaker 1: and Karen Stark. I'm gonna follow up on something Steve 427 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:10,480 Speaker 1: Helling said on My h Len Show. We never ever 428 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 1: ever paid for an interview or uh ever, Now this 429 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 1: is interesting some bigger shows with a whole lot of money. 430 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:22,400 Speaker 1: And I'll say, we did not pay for the interview. 431 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:27,200 Speaker 1: That's not journalistic integrity. We only pay a licensing fee 432 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:31,640 Speaker 1: for the photos. In other words, so todd mom takes 433 00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 1: a picture, gives a picture of herself with Kelly hands 434 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:40,439 Speaker 1: it over. They pay an eighty thousand dollar licensing fee 435 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:44,639 Speaker 1: for the photo, but not for the interview. Oh no, 436 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:48,200 Speaker 1: no way. So bottom line, you know, same thing, money 437 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 1: changes hands. So you're what do you make of that, 438 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 1: Karen Stark, do you think she's ever thought of actually 439 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 1: getting a job. Why would she have to nanty if 440 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 1: she's able to get away with doing it? To think about, 441 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,359 Speaker 1: you know, how she's crafted all of this to fit 442 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:09,199 Speaker 1: her lifestyle, that she could make money from being anywhere, 443 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,719 Speaker 1: from taking a walk and not have to deal with 444 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 1: the fact that she had this child that disappeared and 445 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:21,240 Speaker 1: that she's a murderer. She just goes on and sees 446 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,119 Speaker 1: herself as a celebrity. And you can count on the 447 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,280 Speaker 1: fact that that's how she views herself, that's her living. 448 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 1: You know, I'm just thinking it through and Bremner, I mean, 449 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,280 Speaker 1: I wonder what what what are they going to sell? Next. 450 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 1: I'm not talking about her parents because listen, and again, 451 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 1: I'm not a shrink, obviously, I'm just a trial lawyer. 452 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 1: But I have met with George and Cindy Anthony. I've 453 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 1: watched them very carefully. I've hung on their every word. 454 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:51,360 Speaker 1: America met them at the worst possible time of their lives, 455 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:57,159 Speaker 1: their beloved The only thing they lived for really was Keyley, 456 00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:00,199 Speaker 1: raising Keyley, and they were raising her. Taught my was 457 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:06,280 Speaker 1: doing nothing but leaching off them and supporting top mom. 458 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 1: So Kelly suddenly goes missing, and then their daughter, what what, 459 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:16,159 Speaker 1: regardless of what we think of her, is charged with 460 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:21,960 Speaker 1: her murder. So this is the worst possible scenario for them. 461 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:23,879 Speaker 1: And then they've got the press camped out on their 462 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 1: front yard. Of course they come out there and cry 463 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,640 Speaker 1: and yell and and show out. I mean, who wouldn't 464 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 1: for Pete's sake. I mean, you can only jab at 465 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:36,640 Speaker 1: somebody so long before they bite back. When I met them, 466 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:40,440 Speaker 1: and I've got to tell you, they were two fine people, 467 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 1: and I mean that, I really do. Um So when 468 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 1: you're hearing when I'm saying what's going to be sold next, 469 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 1: not referring to them, and I want to be clear 470 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 1: about that. So what will be sold next Kelly's baby 471 00:28:55,960 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 1: clothes and Bremner, Well, absolutely there was some indication back 472 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 1: during the trial the baby pictures were sold or licensed. 473 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 1: As we just talked about, Um, who knows what's next 474 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 1: that she's talking about a reality show and she's telling 475 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 1: paparazzi pictures and everything else. She has no shame googling 476 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 1: herself all the time, and she's going to need some 477 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:19,000 Speaker 1: reputation management on that. But she seems to just go 478 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,640 Speaker 1: forward blithely as if she is, like here in said, 479 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 1: of celebrity rather than a murderous in all of our eyes. 480 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 1: That's how we feear. We learned so much with Chris 481 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:34,320 Speaker 1: Hanson from Crime Watch Daily speaking with the Anthony's, we 482 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:41,720 Speaker 1: learned that they believe she must have been temporarily mentally ill, 483 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 1: which you know, it's not really a legal concept. Um, 484 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,479 Speaker 1: there's this temporary insanity that never wins because it's so 485 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:54,920 Speaker 1: far fetched. They've got You've got George and Cindy is 486 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 1: sitting there going along with it. I don't think they're 487 00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,120 Speaker 1: both lying. I don't think either of them are lying. 488 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 1: The defeat it's with nowhere else to go, but the 489 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,400 Speaker 1: obvious that their client is guilty. Tells George he's got 490 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:06,920 Speaker 1: to fall on a sword and he's got to say 491 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,560 Speaker 1: he did it it was an accident. Okay, then you've 492 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:14,719 Speaker 1: got gosh, you've got so much in that one conversation, 493 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:19,720 Speaker 1: Steve Helling, People Magazine. What stuck out in your mind? Well, 494 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:23,760 Speaker 1: you know, I can't say that I was surprised at 495 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:26,640 Speaker 1: a lot of it, But I am surprised to see 496 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 1: how much they're still mourning and how they're talking. George 497 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,960 Speaker 1: is talking about um, how you know he sees Kaylee 498 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 1: come into the house and and and touch him on 499 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 1: the cheek while he's asleep, and you know, these are 500 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,320 Speaker 1: still people. You know what. I want to talk about 501 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:45,320 Speaker 1: that too. I've seen Kaylee on a couple of occasions. 502 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 1: Oh no, I've seen her. I've seen her in the flesh. 503 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:54,240 Speaker 1: I've seen her in my house. One time she woke 504 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,400 Speaker 1: me up in the morning to tap one on with 505 00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,479 Speaker 1: my her little finger like she used to do up 506 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 1: part me, was this a dream? It wasn't a dream. 507 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,080 Speaker 1: It was like you and I are talking right now. 508 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:09,360 Speaker 1: The strong spirit that's in our house was imagination. That's 509 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 1: not an imagination. That that's that's love, and that's that's 510 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 1: a connection that I wish more people could have. Okay, 511 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:17,800 Speaker 1: I'm going to go out on a limb with you guys. 512 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:23,720 Speaker 1: I definitely believe that there is a life after death. 513 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:26,840 Speaker 1: I don't know what it is. I don't know that 514 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:30,080 Speaker 1: it's anything like we imagine it to be. I don't 515 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,560 Speaker 1: think there's a street paved with gold and rubies or 516 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:37,920 Speaker 1: anything material of this earth at all. But I really 517 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 1: do believe Karen Stark, that there have been so many 518 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 1: instances of life after death, experiences of sightings, just a 519 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:52,880 Speaker 1: million different things. If even one of them is true, 520 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,760 Speaker 1: just one of the millions of stories, that means there 521 00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 1: is a life after death. I think it's entirely believable 522 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 1: what George is saying. I don't understand it. I don't 523 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:06,280 Speaker 1: know how to explain it. But I also don't know 524 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 1: how the phone or the TV works, So you know, 525 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,480 Speaker 1: that's just something that a guy made up in his lab. 526 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 1: I really believe this can happen. I don't understand it, 527 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 1: but there's been so many instances of this. How can 528 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:22,959 Speaker 1: it be false? Karen Well, I don't know if I 529 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 1: can answer that it's false or it's true, Nancy, but 530 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:29,280 Speaker 1: I do know that people say it all the time 531 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,240 Speaker 1: and have told me. My own patients have told me 532 00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 1: of experiences of people they lost to were standing near 533 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 1: their bed or they could see them as though, you know, 534 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:43,480 Speaker 1: they were back in their lives again. So, whether it 535 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,840 Speaker 1: happens to be true or it's a wish that you 536 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:51,520 Speaker 1: conjure up or another state in our mind, it certainly 537 00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:55,760 Speaker 1: is something that we can't say, Oh, George, there's something 538 00:32:55,800 --> 00:33:00,400 Speaker 1: wrong with him. It is believable in that respect. So 539 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:05,400 Speaker 1: you're taking this safe route, Okay, I respect that. And Brenner, 540 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,320 Speaker 1: what does it say to you? Well, I think there's 541 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:10,720 Speaker 1: a real love there that never ends, and I think 542 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:13,960 Speaker 1: that he sees her. I mean, it may be more 543 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,239 Speaker 1: than that in terms of whatever everyone's just said, but 544 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:20,160 Speaker 1: it's very strong indicator about about the law, you know, 545 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 1: of George and Sydney. So, Steve Helen, what do you 546 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 1: make of what George said? Well, I guess I'm going 547 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 1: to be the skeptic on the panel. I think he 548 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,480 Speaker 1: was asleep. I think that you know, he was dreaming 549 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:35,040 Speaker 1: or it was his imagination. I just do It's it's 550 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:37,719 Speaker 1: generally how I see these things but then again, who 551 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:39,800 Speaker 1: am I to tell George Anthony what he saw and 552 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:42,480 Speaker 1: what he didn't see. And you know, if it gives 553 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,440 Speaker 1: nobody that's who, you know, abody exactly to tell it 554 00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,360 Speaker 1: he did or didn't see. But I don't think it's 555 00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,320 Speaker 1: something that I have to figure out today because it's 556 00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:55,480 Speaker 1: really beyond my understanding. But he definitely said I believe 557 00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:58,560 Speaker 1: Steve Helen that he was awake and it was not 558 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:02,080 Speaker 1: his imagination. Uh, you know what, whatever gets him with 559 00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:04,760 Speaker 1: the comfort that he needs, I am totally on board with. 560 00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:07,960 Speaker 1: So um, you know, I don't have to believe him. 561 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:10,000 Speaker 1: It's not it's not my place to believe him or not. 562 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:12,439 Speaker 1: But I kind of am a skeptic with this one. 563 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:17,560 Speaker 1: You know, just hearing his words is so haunting to 564 00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:23,840 Speaker 1: think that Kelly appeared in the home to comfort him, 565 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:28,000 Speaker 1: or that he is so heartbroken that he imagines her 566 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:34,400 Speaker 1: being there. I played earlier the portion of George and 567 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:39,640 Speaker 1: Cindy speaking where they say that they would sue if 568 00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:44,880 Speaker 1: she does a reality series on TV to Steve Helling 569 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:48,839 Speaker 1: from People Magazine, Steve, what would the grounds, what would 570 00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:52,040 Speaker 1: the basis of the lawsuit be? You know, they could 571 00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:54,759 Speaker 1: sue her for the same thing as you. As you 572 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:59,160 Speaker 1: mentioned with um Ron Goldman's family suing O. J. Simpson 573 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:03,319 Speaker 1: for a wrongful death, they could sue her for wrongful death. 574 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:07,000 Speaker 1: I think that that's a possibility. Um, though I don't 575 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,399 Speaker 1: know the statute of limitations. I'm probably the only non 576 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,960 Speaker 1: lawyer on this panel. Um. You know, there's probably other 577 00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:14,799 Speaker 1: things that they could sue for as well. I mean, 578 00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:18,759 Speaker 1: they've been through a lot. Well, if she did a 579 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:23,960 Speaker 1: reality show, that would start the statute rolling when they 580 00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:28,800 Speaker 1: saw it or heard about it. And assuming to an Bremner, 581 00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:32,200 Speaker 1: high profile lawyer out of Seattle, what do you believe 582 00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:34,560 Speaker 1: the grounds of a laws such a lawsuit would be. 583 00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:38,439 Speaker 1: Of course, if she said anything about them that was defamatory, 584 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 1: she they could sue for, you know, slant or if 585 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:46,239 Speaker 1: it was sprinted libel exactly. Man, I was thinking the 586 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:49,520 Speaker 1: same thing as some kind of false light or defamation. Um. 587 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:52,680 Speaker 1: And the statute starts, of course when when they see it, 588 00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:55,680 Speaker 1: or infliction of of emotional distress and wrongful death. Of 589 00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:57,680 Speaker 1: course it is going to have generally like a ground 590 00:35:57,680 --> 00:35:59,880 Speaker 1: of three year statute. And the question is their sta 591 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,600 Speaker 1: name His grandparents could be at issue as well, but 592 00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:06,080 Speaker 1: if she starts into something like this, then sure they 593 00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:08,360 Speaker 1: could look at a lawsuit and look at O. J. 594 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:11,560 Speaker 1: Simpson's thirty three million dollar verdict against him from the 595 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:15,080 Speaker 1: Browns and the Goldman's I mean that judgment. It will 596 00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:17,719 Speaker 1: take any money that he gets. And they took that 597 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:20,160 Speaker 1: book that he wrote called if I Did It? Remember, 598 00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:23,600 Speaker 1: they took over and republished as a confessional and called 599 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:26,680 Speaker 1: it I Did It. I'm gonna play you more of 600 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:31,719 Speaker 1: Tott Mom, Casey, Anthony's parents, George and Cindy in just 601 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:35,040 Speaker 1: one moment. But I want to thank our partner making 602 00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:40,120 Speaker 1: our program possible today. Guys, you know how much I 603 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:44,360 Speaker 1: love fat Boy and Bremner. I know Karen Stark and 604 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,520 Speaker 1: Alan Deeck know who fat Boy is? And do you 605 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:51,840 Speaker 1: and Steve Helen, No, fat Boy, it's my dog now, Anne? 606 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:58,600 Speaker 1: What about wasn't your cat name? Was it Mickey or Mikey? Jimmy, Jimmy, Yes, 607 00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:02,080 Speaker 1: Jimmy and guy, You're never gonna leave this. Jimmy and 608 00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:04,840 Speaker 1: lives in high rise. Knew how to take the elevator. 609 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:07,560 Speaker 1: Jimmy would go and wait at the elevator. Tell me 610 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,560 Speaker 1: if I get it wrong in Jimmy would weigh the elevator. 611 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:13,960 Speaker 1: Everybody knew him, and somebody would open it up and 612 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,640 Speaker 1: he'd get on, and he need not to get off 613 00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:18,200 Speaker 1: at the wrong floor. He get off at the lobby 614 00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,600 Speaker 1: and I guess go walk around outside. So, of course 615 00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,680 Speaker 1: I'm always looking for something new for fat Boy street 616 00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:28,319 Speaker 1: name Nitro. I'm looking for things that are fun, new 617 00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:30,640 Speaker 1: things we can try. While. I found an amazing new 618 00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:33,480 Speaker 1: collar and it is called link a k C and 619 00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:36,000 Speaker 1: it's so much more than a collar. It's backed by 620 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:40,560 Speaker 1: the American Kennel Club. It's a GPS locator, a fitness 621 00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:45,160 Speaker 1: activity tracker for a dog, and a smartphone app all 622 00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:47,479 Speaker 1: rolled into one. Now, the thing I like the best 623 00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:50,920 Speaker 1: is the GPS locator because I always know where a 624 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:54,799 Speaker 1: fat Boy a k A. Nitro is. I don't have 625 00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:56,560 Speaker 1: to worry did he get out of the yard, did 626 00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:59,840 Speaker 1: he jump over the fence? Is he running down the streets? 627 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:03,120 Speaker 1: Where being chased by a car or chasing a car? 628 00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:06,200 Speaker 1: I can see exactly where fat Boy is right on 629 00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:09,400 Speaker 1: the app, and it is total peace of mind. My 630 00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:13,000 Speaker 1: favorite part is the activity and wellness tracker. It doesn't 631 00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:15,840 Speaker 1: matter how old your dog is, whether it's a pure breed, 632 00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,600 Speaker 1: or a mutt like mine. Link a k C shows 633 00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:22,680 Speaker 1: the exact amount of activity every dog needs. It's easy 634 00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:25,319 Speaker 1: to set up. There are sizes for every dog and 635 00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:29,560 Speaker 1: it's super compfee link a k C looks great on 636 00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:32,640 Speaker 1: fat Boy. Look at our Instagram, Facebook and Twitter to 637 00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:35,720 Speaker 1: see a shot of him. Keeping your dog safe, happy 638 00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:39,120 Speaker 1: and healthy is now easier with special offers from link 639 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:42,319 Speaker 1: a k C. Go to link akc dot com. Use 640 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:45,560 Speaker 1: code Nancy to save thirty p on your order with 641 00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:48,800 Speaker 1: free shipping. Code Nancy in a n C hye to 642 00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:53,480 Speaker 1: save thirty percent on your order with free shipping at 643 00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:57,960 Speaker 1: link a k C dot com. Link a k C 644 00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:02,919 Speaker 1: dot com code and see link a k C. Thank you. 645 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:05,960 Speaker 1: Fat Boy and I both say thank you. And now 646 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:09,040 Speaker 1: I want to turn back to the latest on top 647 00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:13,120 Speaker 1: Mom Casey Anthony. I mean, you know, Steve Helling. It's 648 00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:16,600 Speaker 1: just been one thing after the next. First there was 649 00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:21,120 Speaker 1: Jose bay as his book. Then the private investigator for 650 00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:25,799 Speaker 1: the defense Dominic what was his last names, Dave Well, 651 00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:27,400 Speaker 1: if I say it, you're just gonna yell at me. 652 00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:32,160 Speaker 1: But his name was Dominic Casey. You know, I thought 653 00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:33,960 Speaker 1: in my head it was Dominant Casey, but I couldn't 654 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:37,439 Speaker 1: imagine that coincidence being true or is, And Bremner taught 655 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:38,840 Speaker 1: me to say, and you'll be happy to know the 656 00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:45,000 Speaker 1: children now say kinky dink um. Yes, so did Dominant 657 00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:48,640 Speaker 1: Casey came out with the claims. Actually these were the 658 00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:53,000 Speaker 1: bankruptcy papers, as I believe how they surfaced, that she 659 00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:57,960 Speaker 1: throughout the trial was having a sex affair with her 660 00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:02,759 Speaker 1: defense lawyer jose By, yes, which he denies, and that 661 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:04,960 Speaker 1: he actually came to the office when weekend and saw 662 00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:06,959 Speaker 1: her running from one office to the next without any 663 00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,920 Speaker 1: clothes on. Because you remember, she was on house arrest 664 00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:12,440 Speaker 1: for a period of time Steve Helling and could go 665 00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:18,120 Speaker 1: to church fat Chance or to her lawyer's office, and 666 00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:21,000 Speaker 1: so she would stay there for hours and hours on end. 667 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:27,839 Speaker 1: So that was I mean, obviously that was Dominic Casey's allegations. Um, 668 00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:32,399 Speaker 1: But I have personally caught him in things that ended 669 00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:34,640 Speaker 1: up not being true. So I don't know that that 670 00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:37,640 Speaker 1: there's any truth. I don't know, Um, you know, yeah, 671 00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:42,160 Speaker 1: we don't know if those allegations are true or not. Um, 672 00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:48,120 Speaker 1: they were sworn documents in bankruptcy proceedings, but whether they're true, 673 00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:52,920 Speaker 1: I don't know. My point is that ever since her acquittal, 674 00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:55,719 Speaker 1: there's been one episode after the next. You had her 675 00:40:55,760 --> 00:41:00,279 Speaker 1: defense attorney photoed shooting a bird at the public then 676 00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:04,879 Speaker 1: you had let's see what happened after that? Did she 677 00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:06,560 Speaker 1: shoot a bird in the middle of the trial or 678 00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:08,719 Speaker 1: was that jod Arius? I don't know, they're kind of 679 00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:16,240 Speaker 1: blending together. That wasn't okay? Um, then let's see what happened. 680 00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:19,960 Speaker 1: Oh yes, And then there is her giving the video 681 00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:25,920 Speaker 1: interview where she says that guys steal are interested her 682 00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:28,720 Speaker 1: in her and want to buy her drinks at bars. 683 00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:31,680 Speaker 1: Karen start, Why would someone feel that they had to 684 00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:36,880 Speaker 1: blurt that out? Because she's a narcissist, Nancy, if you recall, 685 00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:39,879 Speaker 1: she would go out and party and dance all night 686 00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:43,920 Speaker 1: knowing that her daughter was missing and that she probably 687 00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:48,560 Speaker 1: had killed her. So she has no conscience and um, 688 00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:55,600 Speaker 1: she needs to get attention, be that celebrity. That's what 689 00:41:55,719 --> 00:42:00,560 Speaker 1: narcissists are like, you know. And Bremner, as I recall, uh, 690 00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:05,440 Speaker 1: while the baby was quote missing, I e dead and 691 00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:09,560 Speaker 1: discarded in a swampy area, a wooded area behind the 692 00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:12,319 Speaker 1: school where top Mom used to go hide out and 693 00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:16,520 Speaker 1: smoke and cut school in that very spot. Gee, there's 694 00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:21,880 Speaker 1: another coincidence that that's where the unknown killer would hide 695 00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:26,200 Speaker 1: the body at top mom'sill hangout nine houses down from 696 00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:29,680 Speaker 1: the Anthony home. You know that killer didn't make it 697 00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:34,280 Speaker 1: very far, did he just decided for no ransom, for 698 00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:37,080 Speaker 1: for no reason really, to just discard the body right 699 00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:41,000 Speaker 1: down the street from the Anthony's home. But it remember 700 00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:46,320 Speaker 1: the during the interim when people were looking everywhere, volunteers, police, 701 00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:50,319 Speaker 1: you name it, we're looking for Kelly. She Top Mom 702 00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:55,200 Speaker 1: was videoed at I think it was Target or Walmart, 703 00:42:55,840 --> 00:43:01,960 Speaker 1: buying eight eighteen packs of beer and lingerie push up bra, 704 00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:08,399 Speaker 1: of course, using forged checks from her friend. But that's 705 00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:10,960 Speaker 1: where her head was while everybody else was out looking 706 00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:15,440 Speaker 1: for her daughter. Well, and and she of course was 707 00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:18,480 Speaker 1: dancing in the Hot Hot Body contest. And then she 708 00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:23,080 Speaker 1: got the made on the stripper pole, Della vita, all right. 709 00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:26,279 Speaker 1: I forgot about the tattoo. Reminded job my memory on 710 00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:29,759 Speaker 1: the tattoo and Bremner the sweet little tattoo put on 711 00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:32,560 Speaker 1: her on her arm that said love bella vita, which 712 00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:36,880 Speaker 1: means a beautiful life. And that was after after the 713 00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:41,080 Speaker 1: baby was killed. That's what I remember and that was 714 00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:44,680 Speaker 1: that was a really big deal to in the prosecution's case, 715 00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:48,160 Speaker 1: which was basically the the theory that you know, she 716 00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:51,040 Speaker 1: wanted freedom, she didn't want to have this baby, she 717 00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:54,560 Speaker 1: wanted the boyfriend, she wanted the hot body contest, dancing, 718 00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:58,920 Speaker 1: you know, free wheeling, single lifestyle. And then she kind 719 00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:03,120 Speaker 1: of cemented her tensions with that labelivid it's my beautiful life. 720 00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:05,480 Speaker 1: I'm starting a new life. So that's how Jeff Ashton, 721 00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:08,279 Speaker 1: the prosecutor um as I recall it, portrayed in his 722 00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:13,920 Speaker 1: closing argument. Listen to one more time to George and 723 00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:18,799 Speaker 1: Cindy Anthony. What these two have lived through since the 724 00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:21,800 Speaker 1: murder of their granddaughter and the trial of their daughter 725 00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:25,880 Speaker 1: is is almost more than I can imagine. Take a listen. 726 00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:29,680 Speaker 1: This is them talking to Chris Handsome from c w D. 727 00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:31,600 Speaker 1: Take a listen. So we know we're going to pin 728 00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:33,360 Speaker 1: it on you because you need to fall on the 729 00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:35,080 Speaker 1: sword for your daughter. You need to do this, I said. 730 00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:38,160 Speaker 1: The defense attorney said you you need to fall in 731 00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:39,920 Speaker 1: the sword. I need to fall in the sword from 732 00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:43,360 Speaker 1: my I need to take responsibility and claimed that what 733 00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:46,840 Speaker 1: responsibility the reason why Kaylee wasn't here with us anymore 734 00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:48,919 Speaker 1: the reason why she's gone. Do you think looking back, 735 00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:52,400 Speaker 1: she was mentally ill? Yes, I think Casey is mentally ill. 736 00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:56,200 Speaker 1: I really do. I think Casey is mentally ill. She's 737 00:44:56,280 --> 00:45:00,080 Speaker 1: never had her seizures worked up. You think cas a 738 00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:04,240 Speaker 1: seizure potentially and didn't even know what happened to Kayley. 739 00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:08,839 Speaker 1: That's a possibility, and she doesn't remember when she has seizures. 740 00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:11,840 Speaker 1: Unless she does, she has been her tongue or something. 741 00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:16,319 Speaker 1: Would you support a lawsuit against your daughter? I don't 742 00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:18,480 Speaker 1: think it will overcome to that. I don't think she'll 743 00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:21,520 Speaker 1: sell her story. George seems to think that it might, 744 00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:25,680 Speaker 1: and now there are rumors of reality shows, even a 745 00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:30,759 Speaker 1: show with her and O. J. Simpson. What do you 746 00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:33,440 Speaker 1: say to that if it came down to that, I 747 00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:36,560 Speaker 1: probably would. She's talking about Keyley still being with her 748 00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:39,959 Speaker 1: a part of her life and perhaps having another child, 749 00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:43,920 Speaker 1: don't I don't know. I don't know where she could 750 00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:47,440 Speaker 1: have another child with It wouldn't be anywhere in the 751 00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:50,040 Speaker 1: United States of America. Who knows. Maybe some of the 752 00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:54,040 Speaker 1: country would accept her. She's had boyfriends since she's gotten out. 753 00:45:54,960 --> 00:46:00,800 Speaker 1: Tell me about the suicide actept from the I'm that Kaylee. 754 00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:07,360 Speaker 1: We were told to Kaylee was missing, taken with Zanny, whatever, 755 00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:12,560 Speaker 1: whomever she was with. I didn't feel I did enough 756 00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:17,239 Speaker 1: to go find her. Did you want to die? I 757 00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:22,560 Speaker 1: wanted to be with her. I want even to this day, 758 00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:27,320 Speaker 1: she should be here, not me. I've seen Kaylee on 759 00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:32,600 Speaker 1: a couple of occasions. Oh, no, I've seen her. I've 760 00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:37,520 Speaker 1: seen her in the flesh. I've seen her in my house. 761 00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:39,800 Speaker 1: One time she woke me up in the morning to 762 00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:42,359 Speaker 1: tap one on with her little finger like she used 763 00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:45,280 Speaker 1: to do. Was this a jar me? Was this a dream? 764 00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:47,000 Speaker 1: It wasn't a dream. It was it was like you 765 00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:50,839 Speaker 1: and I are talking right now. The strong spirit that's 766 00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:54,640 Speaker 1: in our house was their imagination. Oh that's not an imagination. 767 00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:57,960 Speaker 1: That that's that's love, and that's that's a connection that 768 00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:00,879 Speaker 1: I wish more people could have. Is she a killer? 769 00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:06,439 Speaker 1: Do you think she intentionally wanted to kill Cayley? If 770 00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:10,799 Speaker 1: Casey is watching this, what is your message to her? 771 00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:14,800 Speaker 1: Stay away, stay away from me. If she wants a 772 00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:17,200 Speaker 1: relationship again with her mom, she's got a lot of 773 00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:18,600 Speaker 1: explains to do. But I don't I don't want to 774 00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:19,800 Speaker 1: hear it no more from her. I don't want to 775 00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:24,920 Speaker 1: see her, Cindy. If Casey is watching this, what do 776 00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:29,960 Speaker 1: you say to her? Case Be true to yourself, start 777 00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:35,000 Speaker 1: being honest with yourself and own everything, equip putting blame 778 00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:40,800 Speaker 1: on everybody else. Steve helping People magazine investigative reporter and 779 00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:44,480 Speaker 1: Bremner high profile lawyer out of Seattle Kier and start 780 00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:47,600 Speaker 1: renounce psychologists joining us from New York and of course 781 00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:52,480 Speaker 1: Alan Duke, my partner in crime, joining me from l A. 782 00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:56,440 Speaker 1: We hear it, just like you hear it. This is 783 00:47:56,440 --> 00:48:01,440 Speaker 1: what we think. What about you? Nancy Grace Crime Stories 784 00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:09,880 Speaker 1: signing off, goodbye friend, m m hm