Speaker 1: Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to
Speaker 1: the podcast, new listeners, old listeners. Wherever you are in
Speaker 1: the world, it is so great to have you here,
Speaker 1: back for another episode as we, of course break down
Speaker 1: the psychology of our twenties. Before we get into this episode,
Speaker 1: little disclaimer if you couldn't already tell from my voice,
Speaker 1: I am indeed a little bit sick with some mystery
Speaker 1: bug mystery illness, but of course the show must go on.
Speaker 1: I'm in Wyoming at the moment, in the US, visiting
Speaker 1: some friends, and as an Ossie gal, the cold weather
Speaker 1: does not agree with me one bit, and I seriously
Speaker 1: feel like I landed spent like two hours in Wyoming
Speaker 1: and my body was like, we don't like this. Let's
Speaker 1: bring up any dormous, dormant viruses that you may have
Speaker 1: and bring them all to the surface. So if you
Speaker 1: can please bear with me while I manage this cold virus,
Speaker 1: whatever it is, I would really really appreciate it, because
Speaker 1: I'm just really glad to share this episode with you.
Speaker 1: It's one that I have wanted to do for a
Speaker 1: long time. I feel like I say that a lot,
Speaker 1: but it's because I always have these ideas on the
Speaker 1: back burner today, I'm really happy to have you here
Speaker 1: for a very in depth Dare I say, fun and
Speaker 1: fascinating episode on the difference between introverts and extroverts? Or
Speaker 1: should I maybe say what you think the differences are
Speaker 1: but which we may have been misled to believe by
Speaker 1: the oversimplification of human personality. Extraversion and introversion seem to
Speaker 1: be this weird thing that divides society. Who are the
Speaker 1: social butterflies, who are the hermits? But it is so
Speaker 1: much more complex and nuanced than that. You know, I
Speaker 1: consider myself an extrovert, but I don't really party. I
Speaker 1: cancel plans probably way more than I should. I feel
Speaker 1: tired a lot, So maybe I'm an introvert. You know.
Speaker 1: There's all these like different ways of seeing it, and
Speaker 1: I really want to explore what it actually means. And
Speaker 1: you know, I also have friends who are most certainly introverts,
Speaker 1: who really need a lot of alone time, but you know,
Speaker 1: for the two hours that they're at the party like
Speaker 1: they are the life of the party. Basically, what I'm
Speaker 1: trying to say is that it's complicated, and what I
Speaker 1: really want to do is break down the origin of
Speaker 1: this concept, like historically in the psychology community, what the
Speaker 1: research really tells us about each personality type and why
Speaker 1: that simple version that we probably all know is is incorrect.
Speaker 1: We're going to start at the very beginning and then
Speaker 1: explore how levels of extraversion and introversion have maybe even
Speaker 1: changed in recent years. More specifically, how it differs within
Speaker 1: individuals based on factors like gender and culture. I also
Speaker 1: want to discuss the myth to do with so called ambiverts.
Speaker 1: Why do you feel that you might not be either
Speaker 1: an introvert or extrovert? And is the term ambivert appropriate?
Speaker 1: But ultimately what is it that makes us more like
Speaker 1: one than the other scientifically? And I also want to
Speaker 1: finish out the conversation by talking about how we can
Speaker 1: accept the introverted or extroverted part of ourselves, especially in
Speaker 1: a world, you know, in a career, in a friendship,
Speaker 1: maybe even an environment where certain parts of being an
Speaker 1: introvert or being an extrovert don't feel accepted. So there
Speaker 1: is a lot to cover. If you are like me
Speaker 1: and really fascinated by, you know, just personality in general,
Speaker 1: this is definitely the episode to open your eyes and
Speaker 1: give you some cool facts that you may not have known.
Speaker 1: I hope you're ready. I am definitely ready. Without further
Speaker 1: I'm going to give you a short break from my
Speaker 1: sick voice and get into the episode, get into the
Speaker 1: psychological differences and perhaps similarities between introverts and extroverts. Let's
Speaker 1: get into it. I want to get straight into it
Speaker 1: and talk about the major differences between introverts and extroverts,
Speaker 1: some of which we're probably already familiar with, some others
Speaker 1: of which you may not have heard of. But before that,
Speaker 1: we do need to know where this idea came from.
Speaker 1: I feel like these terms introvert extrovert have become parts
Speaker 1: of our shared language now, like they're parts of the psychobabble.
Speaker 1: We throw them into conversations left, right and center. But
Speaker 1: I do think it's really important to also know how
Speaker 1: they came to be. It's an important piece, you know,
Speaker 1: even if trivia, if nothing else. So, the person you
Speaker 1: really want to know about in order to explain these
Speaker 1: concepts is kyl Jung. He is a legendary Swiss psychoanalyst
Speaker 1: and psychiatrist. He is He's famous. He can be credited
Speaker 1: with more concepts than I think I could even count
Speaker 1: and extraversion, and introvert is just one of them. He
Speaker 1: basically saw these as central traits to each of our personalities.
Speaker 1: And you know, something that we could use to categorize
Speaker 1: people in society and categorize their personalities. You were either
Speaker 1: high in introversion or high in extroversion. Something that a
Speaker 1: lot of us actually get wrong, though, is that you
Speaker 1: have to be one or the other explicitly at all times.
Speaker 1: Not true. According to Yung, we actually all have an
Speaker 1: extroverted and introverted side. One is just more dominant more
Speaker 1: of the time. And to be honest, you know, I
Speaker 1: have never actually met somebody who is entirely one hundred
Speaker 1: percent introverted or entirely extroverted. You know, maybe the only example,
Speaker 1: Like I was thinking about this and I was like, no,
Speaker 1: there must be someone. The only example I can think
Speaker 1: of is like that philosopher who lived on an island
Speaker 1: by himself for twenty years. I've completely forgotten his name.
Speaker 1: If you know who it is, leave a comment, because
Speaker 1: it's it's going to annoy me. But you know, perhaps
Speaker 1: the only people who we could accredit as being one
Speaker 1: hundred percent one over the other people who are so
Speaker 1: called hermits people who are socially reclusive. But again that
Speaker 1: is very very rare. And you know, it's not the
Speaker 1: case that you can only receive energy from ourselves or
Speaker 1: you can only receive energy from others. Humans require different
Speaker 1: different things, different sources of fuel, different sources of motivation
Speaker 1: and energy. This here is actually the most important distinction
Speaker 1: between an extrovert and an introvert. It rests on how
Speaker 1: we each prefer to gain energy or recharge. Do we
Speaker 1: seek inspiration and stimulation from within ourselves or out in
Speaker 1: the world. It's a spectrum that we all sit on,
Speaker 1: and where we sit can actually change day to day,
Speaker 1: but we do tend to lean more one way than
Speaker 1: the other. Now, people who sit right in the middle,
Speaker 1: they're known as ambiverts. They have a perfect balance, some
Speaker 1: would say, of extroverted and introverted traits or desires. It's
Speaker 1: actually important to note that this idea of an ambivert
Speaker 1: is actually a modern addition to the original theory. So
Speaker 1: jung He himself did not introduce that term. He didn't
Speaker 1: believe that ambiverts existed, so of course he wouldn't have
Speaker 1: given it a name. He really did say, you are
Speaker 1: you have both, but one is dominant. Therefore, no one
Speaker 1: is an ambivert, because that would suggest a complete balance,
Speaker 1: a perfect unison or blend of them both. Anyways, basically,
Speaker 1: what makes you an introvert versus an extrovert depends on
Speaker 1: where you primarily seek gratification or stimulation. So a primarily
Speaker 1: extroverted person seeks it from human interaction. Hence this idea
Speaker 1: that they're quite talkative, they're social butterflies, they have many friends,
Speaker 1: they make plans, they're enthusiastic. They really thrive from the
Speaker 1: energy of others or in a group. In contrast, people
Speaker 1: we would consider introverts derive gratification and peace from solo activities,
Speaker 1: from that alone time that they crave so much. They're
Speaker 1: a bit more reserved, quiet, passive. Maybe if you're an introvert,
Speaker 1: you may also find that if you have been around
Speaker 1: people for too long, for too many days in a row,
Speaker 1: you do get a bit irritated. You can't focus, You
Speaker 1: want to just kind of fade into the background, and
Speaker 1: you can't wait to get back to your room, get
Speaker 1: back to your space, get back to a place where
Speaker 1: you can just be in your own company. In comparison,
Speaker 1: like an extrovert may never want the party to stop.
Speaker 1: Like they're the ones who are like, okay, like we
Speaker 1: finished the main event, come hang out at my place,
Speaker 1: like let's go watch a movie, Let's go out for
Speaker 1: another drink. They're people who really need multiple social touch
Speaker 1: points throughout the day. So they need to see someone
Speaker 1: in the morning, they need to have a call of
Speaker 1: someone in the evening, and you know, they like to
Speaker 1: have a full social calendar, and they will find that
Speaker 1: they feel less satisfied, less purposeful, less creative, less fulfilled
Speaker 1: when they go to many days without seeing people or
Speaker 1: really like having nourishing conversations or interactions. Some introverts, though,
Speaker 1: do have like I don't know what the term is,
Speaker 1: but like introverted pals, let's call them that, people who
Speaker 1: they can be around constantly and not feel the need
Speaker 1: to have a break from in order to restore their energy.
Speaker 1: Normally it's another introvert, right, It's someone who you can
Speaker 1: do what we call parallel time with, where you're like
Speaker 1: both sitting in the same room, but you're doing different things,
Speaker 1: but you enjoy like the physical presence. That's a little caveat,
Speaker 1: a little small addition to the introverted nature. Some psychologists
Speaker 1: have suggested that introverts are people whose energy it tends
Speaker 1: to expand through reflection and dwindled during interaction. But active
Speaker 1: interaction so they can be around other people if it
Speaker 1: is not something that is going to cost them all
Speaker 1: their mental recas sources. They can be silent, they can
Speaker 1: be thinking, they can be introspecting. Now, introversion is not
Speaker 1: the same thing as being anti social or shy, or
Speaker 1: even having social anxiety. It's a common misconception, but extroverts
Speaker 1: can be just as shy and just as socially anxious
Speaker 1: as your everyday introvert. I am somebody again who is
Speaker 1: incredibly extroverted. In fact, you know, I was reminded of
Speaker 1: that fact very recently. Like I spent a few days
Speaker 1: in a row without seeing anyone, and I did feel low.
Speaker 1: I felt a significant dip in my mood. But I
Speaker 1: also have my fair share of moments of feeling awkward,
Speaker 1: of feeling like I shouldn't go to this thing, I
Speaker 1: don't know anyone. I am not confident all the time.
Speaker 1: Because extraversion and social ability or perceived social acceptance are
Speaker 1: not the same thing. This is a whole other facet
Speaker 1: of personality. If we look at it another way, an
Speaker 1: introvert can be the most confident, self assured person, you know,
Speaker 1: counter to what people may think. They just need more
Speaker 1: space in their day for themselves. But you could put
Speaker 1: them in front of a big crowd, in a big
Speaker 1: group and they would still feel at ease. It's just
Speaker 1: that it's not their preferred way to seek validation, gratification
Speaker 1: and energy. Again, it's two different dimensions. So continuing on
Speaker 1: with this history lesson. After cal Jung first introduced this
Speaker 1: idea and a piece of writing almost one hundred years ago,
Speaker 1: it was then adopted by many others in the field.
Speaker 1: Many other psychologists and psychiatrists were like, huh, he might
Speaker 1: be right, and they wrote papers finding things that were
Speaker 1: very very similar to what he was noting that we
Speaker 1: could identify people in this way, and so extraversion slash
Speaker 1: introvert became what we now know as one of the
Speaker 1: defining personality traits that we use today famously. It is
Speaker 1: now part of what we call the Big Five. Now
Speaker 1: we've spoken about the Big five many times before, and
Speaker 1: if you're a psychology student, I'm sure you have heard
Speaker 1: of this before many many times. So apologies for being boring,
Speaker 1: but let's just consider this a refresher if you're new
Speaker 1: to the idea. The Big five is basically the attempt
Speaker 1: of psychologists to categorize us as humans by categorizing our personalities.
Speaker 1: It's basically the closest thing that we have to a
Speaker 1: formula for describing someone based on five core traits and
Speaker 1: where they sit on this spectrum of these traits. So
Speaker 1: consider like five scales, and you can sit, you know,
Speaker 1: in different positions on each of those scales, and where
Speaker 1: you sit on those different positions will end up giving
Speaker 1: you your personality type. If you've ever done, you know,
Speaker 1: the Mayas Briggs test, like you will be very very
Speaker 1: familiar with this. Let's talk about the traits though. The
Speaker 1: first one is openness to experiences. So you can either
Speaker 1: be someone who is very curious, very creative, is really
Speaker 1: accepting if new things, is really hungering for new sensations,
Speaker 1: maybe takes risks, is happy with the discomfort of experiencing
Speaker 1: something new. Or you can be someone who is quite
Speaker 1: happy in the normalcy and happy in the comfort of
Speaker 1: their routine. Next, we have conscientiousness. This is organization, how
Speaker 1: efficient you are your general sense of responsibility. You can
Speaker 1: be someone who we would call quite type A who
Speaker 1: was very efficient, very organized, very productive. Or you can
Speaker 1: be someone who kind of you know, operates more by
Speaker 1: like the seat of their pants is a little bit
Speaker 1: more on the go. Then we have extraversion, which we've
Speaker 1: already talked about. One side of the scale was extraversion,
Speaker 1: the other one is introversion. Are you social, are are
Speaker 1: you assertive? Or are you more reserved? You gain energy
Speaker 1: from reflection. Then we have agreeableness. This is compassion, respectfulness,
Speaker 1: trust in others, basically your ability to get along. We
Speaker 1: all know there are people who like they just start fires,
Speaker 1: they just create conflict. And then there's another set of
Speaker 1: people who are very I don't know what the word is,
Speaker 1: but they're just very easy to be around. They don't
Speaker 1: really want to disagree. It's not that they don't have opinions,
Speaker 1: but they'd know the time and place, like they're just
Speaker 1: an everybody person. Then finally we have neuroticism. So this
Speaker 1: is probably the biggest area where we would talk about
Speaker 1: mental health. It's a very slim part of it, but
Speaker 1: do you lean towards being quite anxious and depressed or yeah,
Speaker 1: quite neurotic is the term they used to use for it,
Speaker 1: or use someone who is not really afflicted by those things.
Speaker 1: So individual personalities are thought to feature each of these,
Speaker 1: like all of us sit somewhere on this scale. You
Speaker 1: can't be like zero in any of these, Like you
Speaker 1: sit somewhere. So you can rate high in extraversion but
Speaker 1: low in openness to new experiences, so you like the
Speaker 1: people you like, but you find it hard to open
Speaker 1: up to new friends. You may also be low in extraversion,
Speaker 1: so you're an introvert, but high in agreeableness and lower neuroticism,
Speaker 1: so you come off as really friendly and open, but
Speaker 1: that doesn't necessarily mean that you want to be around
Speaker 1: people all the time. Basically, what I want you to
Speaker 1: conclude from the Big five is that personality is bigger
Speaker 1: than introversion versus extraversion, and it's also most certainly bigger
Speaker 1: than the Big Five. The Big five is a great
Speaker 1: structure to explain how someone might react in a certain situation,
Speaker 1: why they are the way they are, But it doesn't
Speaker 1: include fo things like interests, specific hobbies, passions, our self concept,
Speaker 1: our self concept, how we think about ourselves. That's actually
Speaker 1: a big flaw that people find with the Big Five.
Speaker 1: It's that it doesn't really explain this. It doesn't explain,
Speaker 1: you know, our perspective on ourselves. It just explains how
Speaker 1: we may appear to others. But personality, you know, it
Speaker 1: is also a requirement to describe personality that we reflect
Speaker 1: on our own emotional patterns, our certain abilities, our behaviors,
Speaker 1: our likes, our dislikes, like, the list goes on. And
Speaker 1: that's why I really warn people against thinking about themselves
Speaker 1: as either entirely introverted or entirely extroverted, and more than that,
Speaker 1: wrongly assuming that it defines who you are in its entirety,
Speaker 1: because I promise it doesn't. It's just one component. So
Speaker 1: moving on from that, I want to answer a specific
Speaker 1: question now that we have largely ignored for the first
Speaker 1: part of this episode, what actually makes someone introverted versus extroverted? Like?
Speaker 1: Is it something that we just pop out of the
Speaker 1: womb being like? Is it like a weird Harry Potter
Speaker 1: sorting hat? What makes us who we are? So there
Speaker 1: are a few explanations, of course, it's never straightforward in psychology.
Speaker 1: The first is that it's largely but not entirely inherited,
Speaker 1: So there's a huge genetic component and we can see
Speaker 1: that in twin studies. In one series of twin studies
Speaker 1: conducted in twenty twenty, researchers looked at more than six
Speaker 1: hundred different genes and found that blueprint genetic blueprint contributed
Speaker 1: somewhere between thirty to sixty percent to whether you were
Speaker 1: extroverted or introverted. So basically, if you had an extroverted
Speaker 1: parent or you had an extroverted twin, there was around
Speaker 1: a thirty to sixty percent chance that you would also
Speaker 1: be extroverted, not introverted. So that is like heritability. What's
Speaker 1: the likelihood that if we took a million people, how
Speaker 1: many of them in the same circumstances would end up
Speaker 1: as extroverts, how many of them would go the other
Speaker 1: way and as introverts. Honestly, you know, if it's at
Speaker 1: the low end of like thirty percent, that's actually pretty
Speaker 1: minimal in my eyes, But you know, it's bigger than nothing,
Speaker 1: and it still does point to the fact that who
Speaker 1: your parents are really does influence who you will be.
Speaker 1: So the reason that genetics has an influence is because
Speaker 1: of how genetics can influence how certain systems in our
Speaker 1: brain work. So we all know that when we get
Speaker 1: a genetic blueprint. That genetic blueprint influences a lot of things.
Speaker 1: One of the things that influences is cerebral or brain development,
Speaker 1: and that's what makes the next two theories important. A
Speaker 1: big thing. The theory is that whether you are an
Speaker 1: extrovert or an introvert comes down to arousal. And we're
Speaker 1: not talking about sexual arousal, but the extent to which
Speaker 1: our bodies and our minds are alert and ready to stimulation.
Speaker 1: So this explanation was first proposed way back in the
Speaker 1: nineteen sixties, and basically it suggested that the brains of
Speaker 1: extroverts are chronically under aroused, leading them to seek out
Speaker 1: stimulation from the environment. Extroverts need to basically work harder
Speaker 1: to get themselves up to the level that others find
Speaker 1: normal and pleasant. Hence why they really like novel social experiences,
Speaker 1: They like being around people. They may even be more
Speaker 1: boisterous and risk taking. In contrast, introverts already have a
Speaker 1: naturally lower threshold. It takes less for them to feel
Speaker 1: kind of over stimulated. You know, a really good book,
Speaker 1: a movie night that provides just as much stimulation and
Speaker 1: fun to them as a club. Because they don't need
Speaker 1: as much to bring about enjoyment, and too much stimulation
Speaker 1: actually makes them quite overwhelmed, whereas for extroverts sometimes the
Speaker 1: limit doesn't exist. So really, what this all comes down
Speaker 1: to this is a suggestion is our brains and their
Speaker 1: inner workings, specifically the activity of neurotransmitters like dopamine, serotonin, adrenaline,
Speaker 1: or noropdephrin. Now, this theory of arousal was presented almost
Speaker 1: sixty years ago, and since then we have obviously become
Speaker 1: a lot more advanced in our scientific technologies, so we've
Speaker 1: been able to test what was once a bit of
Speaker 1: a wild guess. Turns out it was a pretty good guess.
Speaker 1: In two thousand and five, researchers from the University of
Speaker 1: Amsterdam set out to test this theory specifically by looking
Speaker 1: at whether extraversion versus introversion is really determined by how
Speaker 1: active our dopamine systems are. Now a lot of us
Speaker 1: think if dopamine as the happy chemical. That's true, but
Speaker 1: it's also responsible for motivation, learning, concentration, social ability, so
Speaker 1: it's going to play a role in this personality trait.
Speaker 1: They got a huge sample of people and they grouped
Speaker 1: them based on a simple personality test, and then they
Speaker 1: got them to participate in a game of sorts where
Speaker 1: they had to place bets and they had to be
Speaker 1: it was in like a social environment, and they were
Speaker 1: either rewarded for their gamble or not. Here's what they saw.
Speaker 1: The reward centers of the brain displayed a lot more
Speaker 1: activity when the individual was an extrovert. They also paid
Speaker 1: attention to the game for longer, They seemed more key
Speaker 1: to keep engaging in the game, maybe because of that
Speaker 1: social element, but all of this this equal experience. They
Speaker 1: were receiving a more positive, more rewarding reaction from it.
Speaker 1: The introverts, on the other hand, or who who the
Speaker 1: scientists imagined were introverts based on this personality test, they
Speaker 1: displayed a whole lot less activity in those same areas,
Speaker 1: suggesting that extroverts are the way they are because they
Speaker 1: just have a heightened sensitivity to reward highly reactive dopamine systems,
Speaker 1: and they already receive a baseline of reward just from
Speaker 1: being around people that introverts don't get. So it makes
Speaker 1: sense that these people would be happier in big social
Speaker 1: situations or taking social risks or even personal risks because
Speaker 1: of what happens deep in their brains. That's one side
Speaker 1: of the coin, but it also comes down to environments,
Speaker 1: specifically culture, socialization, how we were raised, and that's one
Speaker 1: further piece of the puzzle that we were going to
Speaker 1: explore after this short break. Looking at the origin behind
Speaker 1: introversion and extraversion specifically, Like the biological underpinnings is one thing,
Speaker 1: but humans I don't think can be reduced to chemical
Speaker 1: messages in their brain. I think doing so this is
Speaker 1: a really important part of the picture, and that part
Speaker 1: we miss comes down to social influence and environment. It
Speaker 1: seems that where you were born and where you grow
Speaker 1: up will also determine whether you are more extroverted versus introverted.
Speaker 1: If you grew up within a culture that values outward
Speaker 1: social engagement and being outgoing and loud and very forward,
Speaker 1: extraversion rates will seemingly be higher because more more people
Speaker 1: learn that this is what's kind of expected of them.
Speaker 1: They're also kind of raised to adapt to these environments.
Speaker 1: They mimic the behaviors of those around them, so they
Speaker 1: may appear to be more extroverted when we compare that
Speaker 1: to quite reflective, peaceful societies where children are taught and
Speaker 1: raised to be quiet, to be reserved, to be introspective,
Speaker 1: We're definitely going to see a difference in overall rates.
Speaker 1: Consider the difference, for example, between individuals from a country
Speaker 1: like Japan versus the United States. Obviously, not everyone within
Speaker 1: those countries are going to be the same. You know,
Speaker 1: no one group is completely homogeneous. But if we took
Speaker 1: the median of each I would expect the US to
Speaker 1: be higher in extraversion and the Japanese people hire in introversion.
Speaker 1: So the research shows that levels of exsion seem to
Speaker 1: be divided by whether a country or a culture is
Speaker 1: actually individualistic or collectivist. So individualistic cultures like the United States,
Speaker 1: they prioritize individual expression and outward displays of confidence that's
Speaker 1: linked to extraversion. Collectivist cultures, on the other hand, they
Speaker 1: value harmony, They value group cohesion that might lead to
Speaker 1: more introverted behaviors. You know, I would love to see, like,
Speaker 1: at what point being removed from that culture in place
Speaker 1: in the other one would maybe change who you are.
Speaker 1: Like if you grew up in the United States until
Speaker 1: you were six, and then you moved to a place
Speaker 1: like Japan, would that change who you are or like,
Speaker 1: would it have to be when you were three? Could
Speaker 1: it be you know, as late as fifteen. It would
Speaker 1: just be very very cool, Like whether it would be
Speaker 1: a really great way to see whether it's something you're
Speaker 1: born with or something that you learn, Like if there's
Speaker 1: a certain direction you're going that's then like completely turned
Speaker 1: around by primarily exposure to a different culture. Long ramble, apologies,
Speaker 1: I'm just very interested in that, Like, it would be
Speaker 1: cool research project. Gender also influences us a whole lot
Speaker 1: because it impacts how people choose to see us and
Speaker 1: how we are raised. I feel like I don't have
Speaker 1: to do a whole revision or history lesson, but you know,
Speaker 1: there's this real sense that loudness in young girls is
Speaker 1: definitely policed. It isn't seen as attractive, whereas for young boys,
Speaker 1: like it's totally acceptable. They are raised to be boisterous, loud,
Speaker 1: a lot more social, So there are actually higher rates
Speaker 1: of introversion amongst women compared to men. It also kind
Speaker 1: of brings me to a crucial question of this episode,
Speaker 1: maybe one that you are asking yourself at this point.
Speaker 1: You know, if you were raised in a specific culture,
Speaker 1: if you raised as a woman to be quite timid,
Speaker 1: to be quite shy, to be quite silent. Can we
Speaker 1: change that the older we get. Is there an opportunity
Speaker 1: at some point to become more extroverted or is it
Speaker 1: forever more a permanent part of our identity. I think
Speaker 1: from my research and also experiences, it is really possible
Speaker 1: for us to obviously momentarily slip into an introverted or
Speaker 1: extroverted state if our environment requires it, sometimes even for
Speaker 1: more than a moment. Obviously, we were discussing before Jung's
Speaker 1: theory that actually it's just that one is more dominant,
Speaker 1: but you do still have introverted and extroverted parts, and
Speaker 1: when it's appropriate that part of you might switch on.
Speaker 1: I've heard stories from friends, but also in case studies
Speaker 1: of people who after trauma, especially a social kind of trauma,
Speaker 1: they were extroverts and they become introverted. They no longer
Speaker 1: get the same energy. Also see people who are quite
Speaker 1: introverted who enter a new environment, perhaps a new workplace
Speaker 1: or a new relationship, and become quite extroverted. But if
Speaker 1: you do believe the psychology and the personality theories, what
Speaker 1: they say is that you should always return back to
Speaker 1: the state that is natural for you, even when the
Speaker 1: trauma has hopefully been addressed, even when you're in that
Speaker 1: workplace that demands this from you. At some point, your
Speaker 1: true nature is going to come out and you're going
Speaker 1: to return to what we call like emotional or I
Speaker 1: guess even social homeostasis. I think beyond that, though, people
Speaker 1: do change as they get older and as their situation
Speaker 1: changes as well. So yes, it might be a momentary
Speaker 1: lapse into introversion or extraversion, but over time, if a
Speaker 1: situation demands it, or if you just change as you grow,
Speaker 1: you will see that you're stewing perhaps more towards the
Speaker 1: other direct You know, consider someone who was really isolated
Speaker 1: in a retirement home. Maybe they become more introverted out
Speaker 1: of necessity. You know, it's quite a sad example. But
Speaker 1: in the state, like, it's harder for them to change
Speaker 1: their nature entirely, so maybe this part of them just
Speaker 1: becomes more present. It means that they are forced to
Speaker 1: be okay with being alone because of their situation, and
Speaker 1: so maybe some small part of them adapts to that.
Speaker 1: What we're really wanting to discuss here is can we
Speaker 1: change our personality like That's the real key question of
Speaker 1: the hour, and I actually have an interview coming out
Speaker 1: with someone in two weeks and it's this amazing author
Speaker 1: from the Atlantic, and she tried to change her personality
Speaker 1: over the span of a year and she was really,
Speaker 1: really diligent. She enacted all of these lifestyle changes and
Speaker 1: habits and she did find like some great success. So
Speaker 1: I'm not going to spoil that episode, but yeah, I
Speaker 1: do think that persistent intervention or major lifestyle events can
Speaker 1: permanently shift you, even though like there is a theory
Speaker 1: that you'll always come back. I think depending on the
Speaker 1: magnitude of the event or how intense and diligent you
Speaker 1: are with your exercises to become more introverted or more extroverted,
Speaker 1: I do think it can work. But what I would
Speaker 1: ask is why would you want to You know, if
Speaker 1: I'm talking about this and you're really paying attention, why
Speaker 1: is it that you feel like it's so necessary for
Speaker 1: you to change who you may fundamentally be. If this
Speaker 1: is who you are and where your energy levels, your
Speaker 1: socialization levels, your stimulation levels naturally sit, what would push
Speaker 1: you to try and strongly change that part of you?
Speaker 1: I think I have an answer, right, I think it
Speaker 1: really does come down to the fact that it often
Speaker 1: feels like society is made for a very specific type
Speaker 1: or level of extrovert, not someone who was introverted, and
Speaker 1: definitely not someone who is too extroverted. And I actually
Speaker 1: received a message from a listener about this which really
Speaker 1: inspired me to do this topic, where she was talking
Speaker 1: about how difficult it is to feel like you'll be
Speaker 1: successful when you are naturally quieter, or naturally less assertive,
Speaker 1: or naturally less interested in networking in a world where
Speaker 1: all our depictions of CEOs are quite brash, bold, loud
Speaker 1: leaders with big personalities, or you know, every job in
Speaker 1: the spotlight seems to involve a great level of socializing.
Speaker 1: You know that doesn't look appealing if you are an introvert.
Speaker 1: I will say introverts aren't often in the spotlight because
Speaker 1: you know, typically they're going to keep away from it
Speaker 1: because it's very exhausting. That doesn't mean that don't exist
Speaker 1: and that there isn't representation, recognition, great appreciation for the
Speaker 1: introverts in our society, even if they're not the front runners,
Speaker 1: even if they're not the people that are put on
Speaker 1: the main stage, they are still there are still Sorry,
Speaker 1: so many examples of people who are incredibly successful. Barack
Speaker 1: Obama famously has talked about how he is an introvert.
Speaker 1: Albert Einstein was an introvert. Bill Gates introvert. Steven Spielberg
Speaker 1: also an introvert. Eleanor Roosevelt was apparently quite introverted as well.
Speaker 1: Warren Buffett. Marissa Mayer, she was the founder of Yahoo. Like,
Speaker 1: there are so many examples, don't let you know, modern
Speaker 1: media and our very individualistic depictions of success make it
Speaker 1: seem like you are either too quiet or too too
Speaker 1: loud to find what you really want. I want to
Speaker 1: talk about how we can actually manage our natural state,
Speaker 1: or our natural level of energy and desire for socialization
Speaker 1: in a world that really favors extraversion, and even better,
Speaker 1: how to balance friendships and relationships when personalities differ, how
Speaker 1: to network, how to be socially active and do what's
Speaker 1: socially necessary without being, you know, drowned out by that
Speaker 1: constant like noise in your brain and that constant like
Speaker 1: perhaps tiredness. I think if you're an introvert and you're
Speaker 1: struggling with this, the first thing I want you to
Speaker 1: do is really devote your energy to those and what
Speaker 1: matters most. Try and figure out how many hours is
Speaker 1: your maximum amount for socializing before you become perhaps you know,
Speaker 1: not someone who's that fun to be around, you know,
Speaker 1: someone who you don't really like. When you start to
Speaker 1: hit a wall, take notice how many hours have you
Speaker 1: been in this situation? How many days in a row
Speaker 1: have you felt like you've made to do things? Really
Speaker 1: trust your intuition and trust your body when it is
Speaker 1: asking for refueling time and almost figure out, Okay, is
Speaker 1: it five hours a day that I can socialize? Is
Speaker 1: it two? I'm going to use those hours as best
Speaker 1: as possible and not try and go over them. I
Speaker 1: think this obviously takes some trial and error, but I've
Speaker 1: had people tell me how keeping a journal for three
Speaker 1: weeks where they track hours around others, hours socializing versus
Speaker 1: their mood was very very helpful for them to identify
Speaker 1: their specific cutoff. Basically, you want to follow the very
Speaker 1: simple principle of make time for what matters and don't
Speaker 1: feel like you're selfish. Don't feel guilty for saying you know,
Speaker 1: I don't have space for this on my plate right now,
Speaker 1: especially when it's things that you know perhaps are a
Speaker 1: little bit unnecessary or perhaps is leaning or into a
Speaker 1: people pleasing territory. But you're only doing it to make
Speaker 1: somebody else happy, if you're only at the social event,
Speaker 1: if you're only in the meeting that was voluntary because
Speaker 1: you think it's going to make someone else happy. Making
Speaker 1: yourself miserable is not going to make that person happy.
Speaker 1: Like making yourself miserable as well is going to bite
Speaker 1: you in the tush. So have strong boundaries around that.
Speaker 1: Know your limits. I also think in terms of keeping
Speaker 1: up conversations or giving the appearance of meeting energy levels,
Speaker 1: especially when you know you pit your wall but like
Speaker 1: there's no way out. Here. Are some tips I use
Speaker 1: as like primarily as an extrovert, that I think you're
Speaker 1: a small lift in those situations, so that you can
Speaker 1: still be present, you don't feel like you're being rude,
Speaker 1: but also maintain some sense of peace, like when you
Speaker 1: don't want to be in that situation, or when you
Speaker 1: do but you are like getting quite tired. Firstly, I
Speaker 1: would say, ask people about themselves. People love that. A
Speaker 1: recent study I was reading said that most people spend
Speaker 1: the majority of their days thinking about themselves. So if
Speaker 1: they can bring that to a conversation and talk about
Speaker 1: themselves even better. Like literally, my secret is just to
Speaker 1: be like why to everything they say, but with a
Speaker 1: few more words. Like if you ask someone what their
Speaker 1: job is at a party and they say, oh, I'm
Speaker 1: an accountant. Sometimes that can really stump people because you're like,
Speaker 1: you know, what do I talk about with that? But
Speaker 1: you can ask the why question, Okay, why they account
Speaker 1: Why are they an accountant? And then be like, oh,
Speaker 1: what made you want to do that? And then say
Speaker 1: they say what it is and you know it's because
Speaker 1: my parents did that and blah blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: Oh and why did your parents inspire you so much?
Speaker 1: Why did maths seem like so much fun? Literally, embody
Speaker 1: a four year old who just has endless curiosity and
Speaker 1: ask why, but just with a few more words and
Speaker 1: ask open questions, Smile, nod, make eye contact. You don't
Speaker 1: have to do even half of the talking if you
Speaker 1: engage in active listening. So it might save you a
Speaker 1: lot of energy resources. And I promise you, like someone
Speaker 1: will leave that interaction with you and be like, Wow,
Speaker 1: they were so interesting because they just found themselves interesting.
Speaker 1: That's the whole secret. I will also say, kind of
Speaker 1: on a different note, but quality over quantity is something
Speaker 1: that I think we extroverts could learn to do better
Speaker 1: when it comes to saying yes yes to friendships, to
Speaker 1: plans and whatever it is. And my introverted friends are
Speaker 1: definitely experts at this. So if you've found your balance,
Speaker 1: keep doing it. Don't think that just because someone else's
Speaker 1: life looks different to yours, that it's any better than yours.
Speaker 1: That is a fallacy that we very much love to
Speaker 1: lean into as humans. We think everyone is happier than
Speaker 1: us just because they do it differently, or just because
Speaker 1: they present as being happier, not realizing that I think
Speaker 1: happiness deeply individualistic and personal. If you know that you're
Speaker 1: an introvert, don't try and fit into an extrovert skin.
Speaker 1: If you know you're an extrovert, don't try and shut
Speaker 1: yourself down to be more like an introvert because you
Speaker 1: think it's going to be more appealing to people. Both
Speaker 1: individuals are going to end up unhappy. The thing is,
Speaker 1: when we talk about extroverts and introverts, at whatever point
Speaker 1: on the spectrum you sit in the moment or across
Speaker 1: your life, each of us contributes a perfect amount to humanity,
Speaker 1: and each of us, in whatever form we come, I
Speaker 1: think is balanced by someone else out there who was
Speaker 1: hopefully being their most authentic self. And who is you
Speaker 1: don't filling the bit that we don't feel. So if
Speaker 1: you're an extrovert, you have your introverted balancing act, Like
Speaker 1: there's someone else in the world who provides what the
Speaker 1: world needs in an opposition to you. Basically, like we
Speaker 1: need everyone. You play a role, even if you think
Speaker 1: that you're too much or you're too little, I truly
Speaker 1: believe in like the harmony and the balance of this
Speaker 1: world and maybe even the universe at large. And this
Speaker 1: is one aspect of it, a tiny, tiny micro aspect
Speaker 1: of it, but it's an important one. You know. I
Speaker 1: hate ending on something as cliche as like be yourself,
Speaker 1: but this is so so true. Like I hope you
Speaker 1: take away from this episode how much value we each bring,
Speaker 1: How we need extroverts, we need introverts, whatever you are.
Speaker 1: We need everyone to make the world go around. So
Speaker 1: if you are questioning can I change myself? Can I
Speaker 1: be happier? Can I be more like that person? Please
Speaker 1: really contemplate whether being more like that person a person
Speaker 1: who you were not born to be is going to
Speaker 1: make you any happier, or whether really leaning in to
Speaker 1: the strengths of your introversion or the strengths of your extroversion,
Speaker 1: what it makes you amazing at, what it makes you
Speaker 1: so talented, at what it brings to society, whether that
Speaker 1: is actually going to make you happier, Like a real
Speaker 1: sense of a stubbornness to yourself, a sense of surrender,
Speaker 1: a sense of complete acceptance. I think that's all we
Speaker 1: have for this episode. Thank you so much for bearing
Speaker 1: with my sick, gross voice for this many minutes. I
Speaker 1: appreciate it. If you've made it this far, in the
Speaker 1: comments below, I want you to leave your mayers, Briggs,
Speaker 1: or your big five personality kind of traits, whether you
Speaker 1: are an extrovert or an introvert. I really want to
Speaker 1: hear whether people in my audience lean more one towards
Speaker 1: the other. Maybe I'll even pop a pole down there,
Speaker 1: because I would be very, very fascinated by that information.
Speaker 1: I hope you learn more about yourself from this episode.
Speaker 1: If you feel like there's someone else in your life
Speaker 1: who could get something out of this, feel free to
Speaker 1: share it with them. Start a conversation, share it to
Speaker 1: your Instagram story and see what people think. It's also
Speaker 1: really a great way for me to reach new people
Speaker 1: and to hopefully build this community which we always love.
Speaker 1: Make sure that you are following along. You leave a
Speaker 1: five star review only if you feel called to do so,
Speaker 1: and you can also follow me on Instagram at that
Speaker 1: Psychology Podcast If you have questions, queries, qualms, conundrums, further comments,
Speaker 1: or even episode suggestions, My dms are always open and
Speaker 1: as always, until next time, stay safe, be kind, be
Speaker 1: gentle to yourself, and we will talk very very soon.