1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to 2 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: the podcast, new listeners, old listeners. Wherever you are in 3 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 1: the world, it is so great to have you here, 4 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 1: back for another episode as we, of course break down 5 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 1: the psychology of our twenties. Before we get into this episode, 6 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 1: little disclaimer if you couldn't already tell from my voice, 7 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: I am indeed a little bit sick with some mystery 8 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 1: bug mystery illness, but of course the show must go on. 9 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 1: I'm in Wyoming at the moment, in the US, visiting 10 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 1: some friends, and as an Ossie gal, the cold weather 11 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: does not agree with me one bit, and I seriously 12 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 1: feel like I landed spent like two hours in Wyoming 13 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 1: and my body was like, we don't like this. Let's 14 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 1: bring up any dormous, dormant viruses that you may have 15 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 1: and bring them all to the surface. So if you 16 00:00:57,080 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 1: can please bear with me while I manage this cold virus, 17 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: whatever it is, I would really really appreciate it, because 18 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: I'm just really glad to share this episode with you. 19 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 1: It's one that I have wanted to do for a 20 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 1: long time. I feel like I say that a lot, 21 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 1: but it's because I always have these ideas on the 22 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:15,760 Speaker 1: back burner today, I'm really happy to have you here 23 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 1: for a very in depth Dare I say, fun and 24 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 1: fascinating episode on the difference between introverts and extroverts? Or 25 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 1: should I maybe say what you think the differences are 26 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 1: but which we may have been misled to believe by 27 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:40,319 Speaker 1: the oversimplification of human personality. Extraversion and introversion seem to 28 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 1: be this weird thing that divides society. Who are the 29 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 1: social butterflies, who are the hermits? But it is so 30 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 1: much more complex and nuanced than that. You know, I 31 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 1: consider myself an extrovert, but I don't really party. I 32 00:01:56,360 --> 00:02:00,480 Speaker 1: cancel plans probably way more than I should. I feel 33 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 1: tired a lot, So maybe I'm an introvert. You know. 34 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 1: There's all these like different ways of seeing it, and 35 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 1: I really want to explore what it actually means. And 36 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 1: you know, I also have friends who are most certainly introverts, 37 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:18,240 Speaker 1: who really need a lot of alone time, but you know, 38 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 1: for the two hours that they're at the party like 39 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 1: they are the life of the party. Basically, what I'm 40 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 1: trying to say is that it's complicated, and what I 41 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 1: really want to do is break down the origin of 42 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 1: this concept, like historically in the psychology community, what the 43 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:39,240 Speaker 1: research really tells us about each personality type and why 44 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 1: that simple version that we probably all know is is incorrect. 45 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 1: We're going to start at the very beginning and then 46 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 1: explore how levels of extraversion and introversion have maybe even 47 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 1: changed in recent years. More specifically, how it differs within 48 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:59,519 Speaker 1: individuals based on factors like gender and culture. I also 49 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 1: want to discuss the myth to do with so called ambiverts. 50 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:07,520 Speaker 1: Why do you feel that you might not be either 51 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 1: an introvert or extrovert? And is the term ambivert appropriate? 52 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:17,800 Speaker 1: But ultimately what is it that makes us more like 53 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 1: one than the other scientifically? And I also want to 54 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:25,919 Speaker 1: finish out the conversation by talking about how we can 55 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 1: accept the introverted or extroverted part of ourselves, especially in 56 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:33,959 Speaker 1: a world, you know, in a career, in a friendship, 57 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 1: maybe even an environment where certain parts of being an 58 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 1: introvert or being an extrovert don't feel accepted. So there 59 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: is a lot to cover. If you are like me 60 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: and really fascinated by, you know, just personality in general, 61 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 1: this is definitely the episode to open your eyes and 62 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 1: give you some cool facts that you may not have known. 63 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 1: I hope you're ready. I am definitely ready. Without further 64 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 1: I'm going to give you a short break from my 65 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 1: sick voice and get into the episode, get into the 66 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 1: psychological differences and perhaps similarities between introverts and extroverts. Let's 67 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 1: get into it. I want to get straight into it 68 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 1: and talk about the major differences between introverts and extroverts, 69 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 1: some of which we're probably already familiar with, some others 70 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 1: of which you may not have heard of. But before that, 71 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:35,360 Speaker 1: we do need to know where this idea came from. 72 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: I feel like these terms introvert extrovert have become parts 73 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 1: of our shared language now, like they're parts of the psychobabble. 74 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 1: We throw them into conversations left, right and center. But 75 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 1: I do think it's really important to also know how 76 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 1: they came to be. It's an important piece, you know, 77 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 1: even if trivia, if nothing else. So, the person you 78 00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 1: really want to know about in order to explain these 79 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:05,279 Speaker 1: concepts is kyl Jung. He is a legendary Swiss psychoanalyst 80 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 1: and psychiatrist. He is He's famous. He can be credited 81 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 1: with more concepts than I think I could even count 82 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 1: and extraversion, and introvert is just one of them. He 83 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 1: basically saw these as central traits to each of our personalities. 84 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 1: And you know, something that we could use to categorize 85 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 1: people in society and categorize their personalities. You were either 86 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 1: high in introversion or high in extroversion. Something that a 87 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: lot of us actually get wrong, though, is that you 88 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:46,920 Speaker 1: have to be one or the other explicitly at all times. 89 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:51,160 Speaker 1: Not true. According to Yung, we actually all have an 90 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 1: extroverted and introverted side. One is just more dominant more 91 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:01,840 Speaker 1: of the time. And to be honest, you know, I 92 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:07,039 Speaker 1: have never actually met somebody who is entirely one hundred 93 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:13,280 Speaker 1: percent introverted or entirely extroverted. You know, maybe the only example, 94 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 1: Like I was thinking about this and I was like, no, 95 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:18,599 Speaker 1: there must be someone. The only example I can think 96 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 1: of is like that philosopher who lived on an island 97 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 1: by himself for twenty years. I've completely forgotten his name. 98 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 1: If you know who it is, leave a comment, because 99 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:30,359 Speaker 1: it's it's going to annoy me. But you know, perhaps 100 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 1: the only people who we could accredit as being one 101 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 1: hundred percent one over the other people who are so 102 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:42,160 Speaker 1: called hermits people who are socially reclusive. But again that 103 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 1: is very very rare. And you know, it's not the 104 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 1: case that you can only receive energy from ourselves or 105 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 1: you can only receive energy from others. Humans require different 106 00:06:55,880 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 1: different things, different sources of fuel, different sources of motivation 107 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:06,040 Speaker 1: and energy. This here is actually the most important distinction 108 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 1: between an extrovert and an introvert. It rests on how 109 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: we each prefer to gain energy or recharge. Do we 110 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: seek inspiration and stimulation from within ourselves or out in 111 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 1: the world. It's a spectrum that we all sit on, 112 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: and where we sit can actually change day to day, 113 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 1: but we do tend to lean more one way than 114 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 1: the other. Now, people who sit right in the middle, 115 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 1: they're known as ambiverts. They have a perfect balance, some 116 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 1: would say, of extroverted and introverted traits or desires. It's 117 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 1: actually important to note that this idea of an ambivert 118 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 1: is actually a modern addition to the original theory. So 119 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 1: jung He himself did not introduce that term. He didn't 120 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 1: believe that ambiverts existed, so of course he wouldn't have 121 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 1: given it a name. He really did say, you are 122 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: you have both, but one is dominant. Therefore, no one 123 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 1: is an ambivert, because that would suggest a complete balance, 124 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 1: a perfect unison or blend of them both. Anyways, basically, 125 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: what makes you an introvert versus an extrovert depends on 126 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 1: where you primarily seek gratification or stimulation. So a primarily 127 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 1: extroverted person seeks it from human interaction. Hence this idea 128 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 1: that they're quite talkative, they're social butterflies, they have many friends, 129 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:42,440 Speaker 1: they make plans, they're enthusiastic. They really thrive from the 130 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:46,320 Speaker 1: energy of others or in a group. In contrast, people 131 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 1: we would consider introverts derive gratification and peace from solo activities, 132 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 1: from that alone time that they crave so much. They're 133 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:04,560 Speaker 1: a bit more reserved, quiet, passive. Maybe if you're an introvert, 134 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 1: you may also find that if you have been around 135 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:09,960 Speaker 1: people for too long, for too many days in a row, 136 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:13,320 Speaker 1: you do get a bit irritated. You can't focus, You 137 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:15,760 Speaker 1: want to just kind of fade into the background, and 138 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:19,320 Speaker 1: you can't wait to get back to your room, get 139 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 1: back to your space, get back to a place where 140 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:25,199 Speaker 1: you can just be in your own company. In comparison, 141 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:28,680 Speaker 1: like an extrovert may never want the party to stop. 142 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 1: Like they're the ones who are like, okay, like we 143 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: finished the main event, come hang out at my place, 144 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 1: like let's go watch a movie, Let's go out for 145 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:41,199 Speaker 1: another drink. They're people who really need multiple social touch 146 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 1: points throughout the day. So they need to see someone 147 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 1: in the morning, they need to have a call of 148 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 1: someone in the evening, and you know, they like to 149 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 1: have a full social calendar, and they will find that 150 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:58,079 Speaker 1: they feel less satisfied, less purposeful, less creative, less fulfilled 151 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 1: when they go to many days without seeing people or 152 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 1: really like having nourishing conversations or interactions. Some introverts, though, 153 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 1: do have like I don't know what the term is, 154 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 1: but like introverted pals, let's call them that, people who 155 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 1: they can be around constantly and not feel the need 156 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 1: to have a break from in order to restore their energy. 157 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 1: Normally it's another introvert, right, It's someone who you can 158 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 1: do what we call parallel time with, where you're like 159 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 1: both sitting in the same room, but you're doing different things, 160 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 1: but you enjoy like the physical presence. That's a little caveat, 161 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 1: a little small addition to the introverted nature. Some psychologists 162 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 1: have suggested that introverts are people whose energy it tends 163 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:51,560 Speaker 1: to expand through reflection and dwindled during interaction. But active 164 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 1: interaction so they can be around other people if it 165 00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 1: is not something that is going to cost them all 166 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 1: their mental recas sources. They can be silent, they can 167 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 1: be thinking, they can be introspecting. Now, introversion is not 168 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 1: the same thing as being anti social or shy, or 169 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 1: even having social anxiety. It's a common misconception, but extroverts 170 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 1: can be just as shy and just as socially anxious 171 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 1: as your everyday introvert. I am somebody again who is 172 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:28,080 Speaker 1: incredibly extroverted. In fact, you know, I was reminded of 173 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:30,440 Speaker 1: that fact very recently. Like I spent a few days 174 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 1: in a row without seeing anyone, and I did feel low. 175 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 1: I felt a significant dip in my mood. But I 176 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 1: also have my fair share of moments of feeling awkward, 177 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 1: of feeling like I shouldn't go to this thing, I 178 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 1: don't know anyone. I am not confident all the time. 179 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: Because extraversion and social ability or perceived social acceptance are 180 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 1: not the same thing. This is a whole other facet 181 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 1: of personality. If we look at it another way, an 182 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:08,679 Speaker 1: introvert can be the most confident, self assured person, you know, 183 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:11,960 Speaker 1: counter to what people may think. They just need more 184 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 1: space in their day for themselves. But you could put 185 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:17,320 Speaker 1: them in front of a big crowd, in a big 186 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 1: group and they would still feel at ease. It's just 187 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: that it's not their preferred way to seek validation, gratification 188 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 1: and energy. Again, it's two different dimensions. So continuing on 189 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 1: with this history lesson. After cal Jung first introduced this 190 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 1: idea and a piece of writing almost one hundred years ago, 191 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:44,200 Speaker 1: it was then adopted by many others in the field. 192 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:48,439 Speaker 1: Many other psychologists and psychiatrists were like, huh, he might 193 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 1: be right, and they wrote papers finding things that were 194 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:54,560 Speaker 1: very very similar to what he was noting that we 195 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:59,439 Speaker 1: could identify people in this way, and so extraversion slash 196 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:03,080 Speaker 1: introvert became what we now know as one of the 197 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 1: defining personality traits that we use today famously. It is 198 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:12,440 Speaker 1: now part of what we call the Big Five. Now 199 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:16,080 Speaker 1: we've spoken about the Big five many times before, and 200 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:18,560 Speaker 1: if you're a psychology student, I'm sure you have heard 201 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:23,320 Speaker 1: of this before many many times. So apologies for being boring, 202 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 1: but let's just consider this a refresher if you're new 203 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:30,439 Speaker 1: to the idea. The Big five is basically the attempt 204 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:34,719 Speaker 1: of psychologists to categorize us as humans by categorizing our personalities. 205 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 1: It's basically the closest thing that we have to a 206 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 1: formula for describing someone based on five core traits and 207 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:48,320 Speaker 1: where they sit on this spectrum of these traits. So 208 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 1: consider like five scales, and you can sit, you know, 209 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 1: in different positions on each of those scales, and where 210 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:00,679 Speaker 1: you sit on those different positions will end up giving 211 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:04,560 Speaker 1: you your personality type. If you've ever done, you know, 212 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:07,319 Speaker 1: the Mayas Briggs test, like you will be very very 213 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 1: familiar with this. Let's talk about the traits though. The 214 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 1: first one is openness to experiences. So you can either 215 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 1: be someone who is very curious, very creative, is really 216 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 1: accepting if new things, is really hungering for new sensations, 217 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 1: maybe takes risks, is happy with the discomfort of experiencing 218 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 1: something new. Or you can be someone who is quite 219 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 1: happy in the normalcy and happy in the comfort of 220 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 1: their routine. Next, we have conscientiousness. This is organization, how 221 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 1: efficient you are your general sense of responsibility. You can 222 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 1: be someone who we would call quite type A who 223 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 1: was very efficient, very organized, very productive. Or you can 224 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 1: be someone who kind of you know, operates more by 225 00:14:57,440 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 1: like the seat of their pants is a little bit 226 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 1: more on the go. Then we have extraversion, which we've 227 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:05,440 Speaker 1: already talked about. One side of the scale was extraversion, 228 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 1: the other one is introversion. Are you social, are are 229 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 1: you assertive? Or are you more reserved? You gain energy 230 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 1: from reflection. Then we have agreeableness. This is compassion, respectfulness, 231 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 1: trust in others, basically your ability to get along. We 232 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 1: all know there are people who like they just start fires, 233 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 1: they just create conflict. And then there's another set of 234 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 1: people who are very I don't know what the word is, 235 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 1: but they're just very easy to be around. They don't 236 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 1: really want to disagree. It's not that they don't have opinions, 237 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 1: but they'd know the time and place, like they're just 238 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 1: an everybody person. Then finally we have neuroticism. So this 239 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 1: is probably the biggest area where we would talk about 240 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 1: mental health. It's a very slim part of it, but 241 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 1: do you lean towards being quite anxious and depressed or yeah, 242 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 1: quite neurotic is the term they used to use for it, 243 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 1: or use someone who is not really afflicted by those things. 244 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 1: So individual personalities are thought to feature each of these, 245 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 1: like all of us sit somewhere on this scale. You 246 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 1: can't be like zero in any of these, Like you 247 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 1: sit somewhere. So you can rate high in extraversion but 248 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 1: low in openness to new experiences, so you like the 249 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 1: people you like, but you find it hard to open 250 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 1: up to new friends. You may also be low in extraversion, 251 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 1: so you're an introvert, but high in agreeableness and lower neuroticism, 252 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 1: so you come off as really friendly and open, but 253 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 1: that doesn't necessarily mean that you want to be around 254 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 1: people all the time. Basically, what I want you to 255 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 1: conclude from the Big five is that personality is bigger 256 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 1: than introversion versus extraversion, and it's also most certainly bigger 257 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 1: than the Big Five. The Big five is a great 258 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 1: structure to explain how someone might react in a certain situation, 259 00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 1: why they are the way they are, But it doesn't 260 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:04,680 Speaker 1: include fo things like interests, specific hobbies, passions, our self concept, 261 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 1: our self concept, how we think about ourselves. That's actually 262 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:11,119 Speaker 1: a big flaw that people find with the Big Five. 263 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:14,680 Speaker 1: It's that it doesn't really explain this. It doesn't explain, 264 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:19,680 Speaker 1: you know, our perspective on ourselves. It just explains how 265 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:24,120 Speaker 1: we may appear to others. But personality, you know, it 266 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 1: is also a requirement to describe personality that we reflect 267 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 1: on our own emotional patterns, our certain abilities, our behaviors, 268 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 1: our likes, our dislikes, like, the list goes on. And 269 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 1: that's why I really warn people against thinking about themselves 270 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 1: as either entirely introverted or entirely extroverted, and more than that, 271 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 1: wrongly assuming that it defines who you are in its entirety, 272 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:54,240 Speaker 1: because I promise it doesn't. It's just one component. So 273 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:56,920 Speaker 1: moving on from that, I want to answer a specific 274 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:01,680 Speaker 1: question now that we have largely ignored for the first 275 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 1: part of this episode, what actually makes someone introverted versus extroverted? Like? 276 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:11,159 Speaker 1: Is it something that we just pop out of the 277 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:14,359 Speaker 1: womb being like? Is it like a weird Harry Potter 278 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:19,399 Speaker 1: sorting hat? What makes us who we are? So there 279 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:23,120 Speaker 1: are a few explanations, of course, it's never straightforward in psychology. 280 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:27,359 Speaker 1: The first is that it's largely but not entirely inherited, 281 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:31,240 Speaker 1: So there's a huge genetic component and we can see 282 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:34,639 Speaker 1: that in twin studies. In one series of twin studies 283 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 1: conducted in twenty twenty, researchers looked at more than six 284 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:44,879 Speaker 1: hundred different genes and found that blueprint genetic blueprint contributed 285 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 1: somewhere between thirty to sixty percent to whether you were 286 00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:53,440 Speaker 1: extroverted or introverted. So basically, if you had an extroverted 287 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:58,040 Speaker 1: parent or you had an extroverted twin, there was around 288 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 1: a thirty to sixty percent chance that you would also 289 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:07,680 Speaker 1: be extroverted, not introverted. So that is like heritability. What's 290 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:11,480 Speaker 1: the likelihood that if we took a million people, how 291 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 1: many of them in the same circumstances would end up 292 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:16,399 Speaker 1: as extroverts, how many of them would go the other 293 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 1: way and as introverts. Honestly, you know, if it's at 294 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 1: the low end of like thirty percent, that's actually pretty 295 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: minimal in my eyes, But you know, it's bigger than nothing, 296 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 1: and it still does point to the fact that who 297 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 1: your parents are really does influence who you will be. 298 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:39,880 Speaker 1: So the reason that genetics has an influence is because 299 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:44,479 Speaker 1: of how genetics can influence how certain systems in our 300 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:47,640 Speaker 1: brain work. So we all know that when we get 301 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 1: a genetic blueprint. That genetic blueprint influences a lot of things. 302 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:55,879 Speaker 1: One of the things that influences is cerebral or brain development, 303 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 1: and that's what makes the next two theories important. A 304 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:01,920 Speaker 1: big thing. The theory is that whether you are an 305 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 1: extrovert or an introvert comes down to arousal. And we're 306 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:10,680 Speaker 1: not talking about sexual arousal, but the extent to which 307 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:15,880 Speaker 1: our bodies and our minds are alert and ready to stimulation. 308 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 1: So this explanation was first proposed way back in the 309 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:24,679 Speaker 1: nineteen sixties, and basically it suggested that the brains of 310 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:30,480 Speaker 1: extroverts are chronically under aroused, leading them to seek out 311 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:37,440 Speaker 1: stimulation from the environment. Extroverts need to basically work harder 312 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 1: to get themselves up to the level that others find 313 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:47,960 Speaker 1: normal and pleasant. Hence why they really like novel social experiences, 314 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:51,120 Speaker 1: They like being around people. They may even be more 315 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:56,679 Speaker 1: boisterous and risk taking. In contrast, introverts already have a 316 00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 1: naturally lower threshold. It takes less for them to feel 317 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:06,679 Speaker 1: kind of over stimulated. You know, a really good book, 318 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 1: a movie night that provides just as much stimulation and 319 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,760 Speaker 1: fun to them as a club. Because they don't need 320 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 1: as much to bring about enjoyment, and too much stimulation 321 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:23,399 Speaker 1: actually makes them quite overwhelmed, whereas for extroverts sometimes the 322 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 1: limit doesn't exist. So really, what this all comes down 323 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:31,680 Speaker 1: to this is a suggestion is our brains and their 324 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 1: inner workings, specifically the activity of neurotransmitters like dopamine, serotonin, adrenaline, 325 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 1: or noropdephrin. Now, this theory of arousal was presented almost 326 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 1: sixty years ago, and since then we have obviously become 327 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 1: a lot more advanced in our scientific technologies, so we've 328 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:56,399 Speaker 1: been able to test what was once a bit of 329 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 1: a wild guess. Turns out it was a pretty good guess. 330 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,159 Speaker 1: In two thousand and five, researchers from the University of 331 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:07,240 Speaker 1: Amsterdam set out to test this theory specifically by looking 332 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:11,200 Speaker 1: at whether extraversion versus introversion is really determined by how 333 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:14,679 Speaker 1: active our dopamine systems are. Now a lot of us 334 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 1: think if dopamine as the happy chemical. That's true, but 335 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:23,399 Speaker 1: it's also responsible for motivation, learning, concentration, social ability, so 336 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 1: it's going to play a role in this personality trait. 337 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:30,600 Speaker 1: They got a huge sample of people and they grouped 338 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: them based on a simple personality test, and then they 339 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:37,360 Speaker 1: got them to participate in a game of sorts where 340 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:39,840 Speaker 1: they had to place bets and they had to be 341 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 1: it was in like a social environment, and they were 342 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 1: either rewarded for their gamble or not. Here's what they saw. 343 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:51,480 Speaker 1: The reward centers of the brain displayed a lot more 344 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 1: activity when the individual was an extrovert. They also paid 345 00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,920 Speaker 1: attention to the game for longer, They seemed more key 346 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,480 Speaker 1: to keep engaging in the game, maybe because of that 347 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:07,680 Speaker 1: social element, but all of this this equal experience. They 348 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:13,119 Speaker 1: were receiving a more positive, more rewarding reaction from it. 349 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,199 Speaker 1: The introverts, on the other hand, or who who the 350 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:21,160 Speaker 1: scientists imagined were introverts based on this personality test, they 351 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:25,439 Speaker 1: displayed a whole lot less activity in those same areas, 352 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:28,919 Speaker 1: suggesting that extroverts are the way they are because they 353 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 1: just have a heightened sensitivity to reward highly reactive dopamine systems, 354 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 1: and they already receive a baseline of reward just from 355 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:42,960 Speaker 1: being around people that introverts don't get. So it makes 356 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,920 Speaker 1: sense that these people would be happier in big social 357 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:53,200 Speaker 1: situations or taking social risks or even personal risks because 358 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 1: of what happens deep in their brains. That's one side 359 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 1: of the coin, but it also comes down to environments, 360 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 1: specifically culture, socialization, how we were raised, and that's one 361 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:07,439 Speaker 1: further piece of the puzzle that we were going to 362 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:16,240 Speaker 1: explore after this short break. Looking at the origin behind 363 00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 1: introversion and extraversion specifically, Like the biological underpinnings is one thing, 364 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:26,680 Speaker 1: but humans I don't think can be reduced to chemical 365 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,919 Speaker 1: messages in their brain. I think doing so this is 366 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 1: a really important part of the picture, and that part 367 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:37,879 Speaker 1: we miss comes down to social influence and environment. It 368 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:41,120 Speaker 1: seems that where you were born and where you grow 369 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:47,360 Speaker 1: up will also determine whether you are more extroverted versus introverted. 370 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:51,199 Speaker 1: If you grew up within a culture that values outward 371 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:56,160 Speaker 1: social engagement and being outgoing and loud and very forward, 372 00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:00,480 Speaker 1: extraversion rates will seemingly be higher because more more people 373 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,880 Speaker 1: learn that this is what's kind of expected of them. 374 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,400 Speaker 1: They're also kind of raised to adapt to these environments. 375 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:11,119 Speaker 1: They mimic the behaviors of those around them, so they 376 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 1: may appear to be more extroverted when we compare that 377 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 1: to quite reflective, peaceful societies where children are taught and 378 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:24,240 Speaker 1: raised to be quiet, to be reserved, to be introspective, 379 00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:28,159 Speaker 1: We're definitely going to see a difference in overall rates. 380 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:33,480 Speaker 1: Consider the difference, for example, between individuals from a country 381 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:40,119 Speaker 1: like Japan versus the United States. Obviously, not everyone within 382 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:44,000 Speaker 1: those countries are going to be the same. You know, 383 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,960 Speaker 1: no one group is completely homogeneous. But if we took 384 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:51,639 Speaker 1: the median of each I would expect the US to 385 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 1: be higher in extraversion and the Japanese people hire in introversion. 386 00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:01,399 Speaker 1: So the research shows that levels of exsion seem to 387 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:05,480 Speaker 1: be divided by whether a country or a culture is 388 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:12,400 Speaker 1: actually individualistic or collectivist. So individualistic cultures like the United States, 389 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 1: they prioritize individual expression and outward displays of confidence that's 390 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:23,240 Speaker 1: linked to extraversion. Collectivist cultures, on the other hand, they 391 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:28,119 Speaker 1: value harmony, They value group cohesion that might lead to 392 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 1: more introverted behaviors. You know, I would love to see, like, 393 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:37,200 Speaker 1: at what point being removed from that culture in place 394 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 1: in the other one would maybe change who you are. 395 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 1: Like if you grew up in the United States until 396 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,639 Speaker 1: you were six, and then you moved to a place 397 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:48,399 Speaker 1: like Japan, would that change who you are or like, 398 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:50,920 Speaker 1: would it have to be when you were three? Could 399 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 1: it be you know, as late as fifteen. It would 400 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 1: just be very very cool, Like whether it would be 401 00:26:57,800 --> 00:26:59,560 Speaker 1: a really great way to see whether it's something you're 402 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 1: born with or something that you learn, Like if there's 403 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:05,680 Speaker 1: a certain direction you're going that's then like completely turned 404 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:11,920 Speaker 1: around by primarily exposure to a different culture. Long ramble, apologies, 405 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 1: I'm just very interested in that, Like, it would be 406 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 1: cool research project. Gender also influences us a whole lot 407 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,720 Speaker 1: because it impacts how people choose to see us and 408 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 1: how we are raised. I feel like I don't have 409 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 1: to do a whole revision or history lesson, but you know, 410 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 1: there's this real sense that loudness in young girls is 411 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:37,240 Speaker 1: definitely policed. It isn't seen as attractive, whereas for young boys, 412 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:41,399 Speaker 1: like it's totally acceptable. They are raised to be boisterous, loud, 413 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 1: a lot more social, So there are actually higher rates 414 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:50,080 Speaker 1: of introversion amongst women compared to men. It also kind 415 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,840 Speaker 1: of brings me to a crucial question of this episode, 416 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,440 Speaker 1: maybe one that you are asking yourself at this point. 417 00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,679 Speaker 1: You know, if you were raised in a specific culture, 418 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 1: if you raised as a woman to be quite timid, 419 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:07,360 Speaker 1: to be quite shy, to be quite silent. Can we 420 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:11,120 Speaker 1: change that the older we get. Is there an opportunity 421 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 1: at some point to become more extroverted or is it 422 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 1: forever more a permanent part of our identity. I think 423 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 1: from my research and also experiences, it is really possible 424 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:27,359 Speaker 1: for us to obviously momentarily slip into an introverted or 425 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:32,000 Speaker 1: extroverted state if our environment requires it, sometimes even for 426 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:36,119 Speaker 1: more than a moment. Obviously, we were discussing before Jung's 427 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 1: theory that actually it's just that one is more dominant, 428 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 1: but you do still have introverted and extroverted parts, and 429 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:46,720 Speaker 1: when it's appropriate that part of you might switch on. 430 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 1: I've heard stories from friends, but also in case studies 431 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:54,720 Speaker 1: of people who after trauma, especially a social kind of trauma, 432 00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 1: they were extroverts and they become introverted. They no longer 433 00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:01,960 Speaker 1: get the same energy. Also see people who are quite 434 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:05,920 Speaker 1: introverted who enter a new environment, perhaps a new workplace 435 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 1: or a new relationship, and become quite extroverted. But if 436 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 1: you do believe the psychology and the personality theories, what 437 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:18,080 Speaker 1: they say is that you should always return back to 438 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 1: the state that is natural for you, even when the 439 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 1: trauma has hopefully been addressed, even when you're in that 440 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 1: workplace that demands this from you. At some point, your 441 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:31,640 Speaker 1: true nature is going to come out and you're going 442 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 1: to return to what we call like emotional or I 443 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:41,479 Speaker 1: guess even social homeostasis. I think beyond that, though, people 444 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 1: do change as they get older and as their situation 445 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,640 Speaker 1: changes as well. So yes, it might be a momentary 446 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 1: lapse into introversion or extraversion, but over time, if a 447 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 1: situation demands it, or if you just change as you grow, 448 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,400 Speaker 1: you will see that you're stewing perhaps more towards the 449 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:04,200 Speaker 1: other direct You know, consider someone who was really isolated 450 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 1: in a retirement home. Maybe they become more introverted out 451 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,600 Speaker 1: of necessity. You know, it's quite a sad example. But 452 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:17,600 Speaker 1: in the state, like, it's harder for them to change 453 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 1: their nature entirely, so maybe this part of them just 454 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:26,000 Speaker 1: becomes more present. It means that they are forced to 455 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 1: be okay with being alone because of their situation, and 456 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 1: so maybe some small part of them adapts to that. 457 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 1: What we're really wanting to discuss here is can we 458 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 1: change our personality like That's the real key question of 459 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:42,760 Speaker 1: the hour, and I actually have an interview coming out 460 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 1: with someone in two weeks and it's this amazing author 461 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,720 Speaker 1: from the Atlantic, and she tried to change her personality 462 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:52,000 Speaker 1: over the span of a year and she was really, 463 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 1: really diligent. She enacted all of these lifestyle changes and 464 00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:59,280 Speaker 1: habits and she did find like some great success. So 465 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:03,520 Speaker 1: I'm not going to spoil that episode, but yeah, I 466 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:07,960 Speaker 1: do think that persistent intervention or major lifestyle events can 467 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,640 Speaker 1: permanently shift you, even though like there is a theory 468 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,640 Speaker 1: that you'll always come back. I think depending on the 469 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:19,160 Speaker 1: magnitude of the event or how intense and diligent you 470 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 1: are with your exercises to become more introverted or more extroverted, 471 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 1: I do think it can work. But what I would 472 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:32,080 Speaker 1: ask is why would you want to You know, if 473 00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:36,840 Speaker 1: I'm talking about this and you're really paying attention, why 474 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 1: is it that you feel like it's so necessary for 475 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:44,400 Speaker 1: you to change who you may fundamentally be. If this 476 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 1: is who you are and where your energy levels, your 477 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:52,320 Speaker 1: socialization levels, your stimulation levels naturally sit, what would push 478 00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 1: you to try and strongly change that part of you? 479 00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:58,920 Speaker 1: I think I have an answer, right, I think it 480 00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,719 Speaker 1: really does come down to the fact that it often 481 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:06,840 Speaker 1: feels like society is made for a very specific type 482 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 1: or level of extrovert, not someone who was introverted, and 483 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:15,240 Speaker 1: definitely not someone who is too extroverted. And I actually 484 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 1: received a message from a listener about this which really 485 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 1: inspired me to do this topic, where she was talking 486 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:23,280 Speaker 1: about how difficult it is to feel like you'll be 487 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:27,480 Speaker 1: successful when you are naturally quieter, or naturally less assertive, 488 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:32,200 Speaker 1: or naturally less interested in networking in a world where 489 00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 1: all our depictions of CEOs are quite brash, bold, loud 490 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:41,720 Speaker 1: leaders with big personalities, or you know, every job in 491 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 1: the spotlight seems to involve a great level of socializing. 492 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:49,400 Speaker 1: You know that doesn't look appealing if you are an introvert. 493 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 1: I will say introverts aren't often in the spotlight because 494 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:56,720 Speaker 1: you know, typically they're going to keep away from it 495 00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:00,800 Speaker 1: because it's very exhausting. That doesn't mean that don't exist 496 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:06,239 Speaker 1: and that there isn't representation, recognition, great appreciation for the 497 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,840 Speaker 1: introverts in our society, even if they're not the front runners, 498 00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:12,200 Speaker 1: even if they're not the people that are put on 499 00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 1: the main stage, they are still there are still Sorry, 500 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:21,520 Speaker 1: so many examples of people who are incredibly successful. Barack 501 00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:24,800 Speaker 1: Obama famously has talked about how he is an introvert. 502 00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:30,520 Speaker 1: Albert Einstein was an introvert. Bill Gates introvert. Steven Spielberg 503 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:35,840 Speaker 1: also an introvert. Eleanor Roosevelt was apparently quite introverted as well. 504 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:40,240 Speaker 1: Warren Buffett. Marissa Mayer, she was the founder of Yahoo. Like, 505 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:43,680 Speaker 1: there are so many examples, don't let you know, modern 506 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:49,520 Speaker 1: media and our very individualistic depictions of success make it 507 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,560 Speaker 1: seem like you are either too quiet or too too 508 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:56,400 Speaker 1: loud to find what you really want. I want to 509 00:33:56,440 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 1: talk about how we can actually manage our natural state, 510 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:05,680 Speaker 1: or our natural level of energy and desire for socialization 511 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,840 Speaker 1: in a world that really favors extraversion, and even better, 512 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:14,880 Speaker 1: how to balance friendships and relationships when personalities differ, how 513 00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:18,200 Speaker 1: to network, how to be socially active and do what's 514 00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 1: socially necessary without being, you know, drowned out by that 515 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:27,040 Speaker 1: constant like noise in your brain and that constant like 516 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,640 Speaker 1: perhaps tiredness. I think if you're an introvert and you're 517 00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:33,040 Speaker 1: struggling with this, the first thing I want you to 518 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:35,319 Speaker 1: do is really devote your energy to those and what 519 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:39,920 Speaker 1: matters most. Try and figure out how many hours is 520 00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:45,560 Speaker 1: your maximum amount for socializing before you become perhaps you know, 521 00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:48,360 Speaker 1: not someone who's that fun to be around, you know, 522 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 1: someone who you don't really like. When you start to 523 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:56,040 Speaker 1: hit a wall, take notice how many hours have you 524 00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:59,040 Speaker 1: been in this situation? How many days in a row 525 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:02,160 Speaker 1: have you felt like you've made to do things? Really 526 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:05,200 Speaker 1: trust your intuition and trust your body when it is 527 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:11,239 Speaker 1: asking for refueling time and almost figure out, Okay, is 528 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:14,000 Speaker 1: it five hours a day that I can socialize? Is 529 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:18,680 Speaker 1: it two? I'm going to use those hours as best 530 00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:22,080 Speaker 1: as possible and not try and go over them. I 531 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:24,960 Speaker 1: think this obviously takes some trial and error, but I've 532 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:28,239 Speaker 1: had people tell me how keeping a journal for three 533 00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:32,360 Speaker 1: weeks where they track hours around others, hours socializing versus 534 00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:37,000 Speaker 1: their mood was very very helpful for them to identify 535 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:41,839 Speaker 1: their specific cutoff. Basically, you want to follow the very 536 00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:46,719 Speaker 1: simple principle of make time for what matters and don't 537 00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:50,239 Speaker 1: feel like you're selfish. Don't feel guilty for saying you know, 538 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,000 Speaker 1: I don't have space for this on my plate right now, 539 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:57,120 Speaker 1: especially when it's things that you know perhaps are a 540 00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:00,480 Speaker 1: little bit unnecessary or perhaps is leaning or into a 541 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:03,680 Speaker 1: people pleasing territory. But you're only doing it to make 542 00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:06,920 Speaker 1: somebody else happy, if you're only at the social event, 543 00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:10,240 Speaker 1: if you're only in the meeting that was voluntary because 544 00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:13,120 Speaker 1: you think it's going to make someone else happy. Making 545 00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:16,400 Speaker 1: yourself miserable is not going to make that person happy. 546 00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:20,479 Speaker 1: Like making yourself miserable as well is going to bite 547 00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:23,960 Speaker 1: you in the tush. So have strong boundaries around that. 548 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:27,440 Speaker 1: Know your limits. I also think in terms of keeping 549 00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:32,080 Speaker 1: up conversations or giving the appearance of meeting energy levels, 550 00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:35,000 Speaker 1: especially when you know you pit your wall but like 551 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,600 Speaker 1: there's no way out. Here. Are some tips I use 552 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:41,040 Speaker 1: as like primarily as an extrovert, that I think you're 553 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:43,640 Speaker 1: a small lift in those situations, so that you can 554 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:47,000 Speaker 1: still be present, you don't feel like you're being rude, 555 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:51,920 Speaker 1: but also maintain some sense of peace, like when you 556 00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 1: don't want to be in that situation, or when you 557 00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:57,440 Speaker 1: do but you are like getting quite tired. Firstly, I 558 00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:00,960 Speaker 1: would say, ask people about themselves. People love that. A 559 00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:03,959 Speaker 1: recent study I was reading said that most people spend 560 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:07,520 Speaker 1: the majority of their days thinking about themselves. So if 561 00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:10,240 Speaker 1: they can bring that to a conversation and talk about 562 00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:14,359 Speaker 1: themselves even better. Like literally, my secret is just to 563 00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:17,880 Speaker 1: be like why to everything they say, but with a 564 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:20,279 Speaker 1: few more words. Like if you ask someone what their 565 00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:22,680 Speaker 1: job is at a party and they say, oh, I'm 566 00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:26,040 Speaker 1: an accountant. Sometimes that can really stump people because you're like, 567 00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 1: you know, what do I talk about with that? But 568 00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:33,680 Speaker 1: you can ask the why question, Okay, why they account 569 00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:35,560 Speaker 1: Why are they an accountant? And then be like, oh, 570 00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:37,719 Speaker 1: what made you want to do that? And then say 571 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:39,840 Speaker 1: they say what it is and you know it's because 572 00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:42,560 Speaker 1: my parents did that and blah blah blah blah blah. 573 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:45,040 Speaker 1: Oh and why did your parents inspire you so much? 574 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:48,840 Speaker 1: Why did maths seem like so much fun? Literally, embody 575 00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:52,040 Speaker 1: a four year old who just has endless curiosity and 576 00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:55,040 Speaker 1: ask why, but just with a few more words and 577 00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:59,680 Speaker 1: ask open questions, Smile, nod, make eye contact. You don't 578 00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:03,840 Speaker 1: have to do even half of the talking if you 579 00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:08,040 Speaker 1: engage in active listening. So it might save you a 580 00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:12,680 Speaker 1: lot of energy resources. And I promise you, like someone 581 00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:15,520 Speaker 1: will leave that interaction with you and be like, Wow, 582 00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:19,440 Speaker 1: they were so interesting because they just found themselves interesting. 583 00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:22,120 Speaker 1: That's the whole secret. I will also say, kind of 584 00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:25,040 Speaker 1: on a different note, but quality over quantity is something 585 00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:28,600 Speaker 1: that I think we extroverts could learn to do better 586 00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:31,880 Speaker 1: when it comes to saying yes yes to friendships, to 587 00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,719 Speaker 1: plans and whatever it is. And my introverted friends are 588 00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:38,840 Speaker 1: definitely experts at this. So if you've found your balance, 589 00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:42,400 Speaker 1: keep doing it. Don't think that just because someone else's 590 00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:46,120 Speaker 1: life looks different to yours, that it's any better than yours. 591 00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:49,960 Speaker 1: That is a fallacy that we very much love to 592 00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:52,839 Speaker 1: lean into as humans. We think everyone is happier than 593 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:56,240 Speaker 1: us just because they do it differently, or just because 594 00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:59,359 Speaker 1: they present as being happier, not realizing that I think 595 00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:03,399 Speaker 1: happiness deeply individualistic and personal. If you know that you're 596 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,440 Speaker 1: an introvert, don't try and fit into an extrovert skin. 597 00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:09,160 Speaker 1: If you know you're an extrovert, don't try and shut 598 00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:12,400 Speaker 1: yourself down to be more like an introvert because you 599 00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:15,000 Speaker 1: think it's going to be more appealing to people. Both 600 00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:19,319 Speaker 1: individuals are going to end up unhappy. The thing is, 601 00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:23,120 Speaker 1: when we talk about extroverts and introverts, at whatever point 602 00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:26,600 Speaker 1: on the spectrum you sit in the moment or across 603 00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:31,320 Speaker 1: your life, each of us contributes a perfect amount to humanity, 604 00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:34,319 Speaker 1: and each of us, in whatever form we come, I 605 00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:37,960 Speaker 1: think is balanced by someone else out there who was 606 00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:42,400 Speaker 1: hopefully being their most authentic self. And who is you 607 00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:45,719 Speaker 1: don't filling the bit that we don't feel. So if 608 00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:50,200 Speaker 1: you're an extrovert, you have your introverted balancing act, Like 609 00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:53,759 Speaker 1: there's someone else in the world who provides what the 610 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:58,399 Speaker 1: world needs in an opposition to you. Basically, like we 611 00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:01,600 Speaker 1: need everyone. You play a role, even if you think 612 00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:05,240 Speaker 1: that you're too much or you're too little, I truly 613 00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:08,160 Speaker 1: believe in like the harmony and the balance of this 614 00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:11,439 Speaker 1: world and maybe even the universe at large. And this 615 00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:14,360 Speaker 1: is one aspect of it, a tiny, tiny micro aspect 616 00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,759 Speaker 1: of it, but it's an important one. You know. I 617 00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:20,680 Speaker 1: hate ending on something as cliche as like be yourself, 618 00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:23,600 Speaker 1: but this is so so true. Like I hope you 619 00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:27,080 Speaker 1: take away from this episode how much value we each bring, 620 00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:31,719 Speaker 1: How we need extroverts, we need introverts, whatever you are. 621 00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:35,080 Speaker 1: We need everyone to make the world go around. So 622 00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:38,080 Speaker 1: if you are questioning can I change myself? Can I 623 00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:41,760 Speaker 1: be happier? Can I be more like that person? Please 624 00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:46,760 Speaker 1: really contemplate whether being more like that person a person 625 00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,279 Speaker 1: who you were not born to be is going to 626 00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:53,040 Speaker 1: make you any happier, or whether really leaning in to 627 00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:57,399 Speaker 1: the strengths of your introversion or the strengths of your extroversion, 628 00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:00,840 Speaker 1: what it makes you amazing at, what it makes you 629 00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:04,799 Speaker 1: so talented, at what it brings to society, whether that 630 00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:07,279 Speaker 1: is actually going to make you happier, Like a real 631 00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:11,759 Speaker 1: sense of a stubbornness to yourself, a sense of surrender, 632 00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:15,160 Speaker 1: a sense of complete acceptance. I think that's all we 633 00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:18,560 Speaker 1: have for this episode. Thank you so much for bearing 634 00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:22,120 Speaker 1: with my sick, gross voice for this many minutes. I 635 00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:24,839 Speaker 1: appreciate it. If you've made it this far, in the 636 00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:29,280 Speaker 1: comments below, I want you to leave your mayers, Briggs, 637 00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:33,640 Speaker 1: or your big five personality kind of traits, whether you 638 00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:36,440 Speaker 1: are an extrovert or an introvert. I really want to 639 00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:41,160 Speaker 1: hear whether people in my audience lean more one towards 640 00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:43,279 Speaker 1: the other. Maybe I'll even pop a pole down there, 641 00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:47,080 Speaker 1: because I would be very, very fascinated by that information. 642 00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:50,160 Speaker 1: I hope you learn more about yourself from this episode. 643 00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:52,839 Speaker 1: If you feel like there's someone else in your life 644 00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:55,719 Speaker 1: who could get something out of this, feel free to 645 00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:58,440 Speaker 1: share it with them. Start a conversation, share it to 646 00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:02,240 Speaker 1: your Instagram story and see what people think. It's also 647 00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:04,880 Speaker 1: really a great way for me to reach new people 648 00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:08,399 Speaker 1: and to hopefully build this community which we always love. 649 00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:11,319 Speaker 1: Make sure that you are following along. You leave a 650 00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:14,120 Speaker 1: five star review only if you feel called to do so, 651 00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:17,480 Speaker 1: and you can also follow me on Instagram at that 652 00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:24,080 Speaker 1: Psychology Podcast If you have questions, queries, qualms, conundrums, further comments, 653 00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:27,920 Speaker 1: or even episode suggestions, My dms are always open and 654 00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:31,560 Speaker 1: as always, until next time, stay safe, be kind, be 655 00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:34,200 Speaker 1: gentle to yourself, and we will talk very very soon.