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Speaker 1: My guest today's television personality Holly Madison, who is best

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Speaker 1: known as Hugh Hefner's girlfriend and for her appearance in

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Speaker 1: the reality show The Girls next Door. She's written two

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Speaker 1: books about her life in the Playboy Mansion and now

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Speaker 1: one of the co hosts of the podcast Girl Next Level.

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Speaker 1: This is just be with Holly Madison. Let's get into it.

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Speaker 1: How are you? Where are you live in Vegas?

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Speaker 2: I'm in La right now. I go back and forth.

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Speaker 1: You do, so, where's home base?

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Speaker 2: In my heart? Vegas? But it's really like fifty to fifty.

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Speaker 1: Did you grow up in Vegas?

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Speaker 2: No, I've lived there for like the past fifteen years, though.

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Speaker 1: And I hear it's sort of like Miami where people

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Speaker 1: that live there aren't really in South Beach like on

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Speaker 1: the Strip. And that's what I hear about Vegas, Like

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Speaker 1: You're not like hanging out at Caesar's Palace.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. When I was younger, I used to

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Speaker 2: spend a ton of time on the Strip. But now

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Speaker 2: now that I'm older, I take things easier.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And what is life like in Vegas?

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Speaker 2: I always say it's like a small town and a

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Speaker 2: big city combined, because you have everything there you'd want

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Speaker 2: in a big city, like so much stuff to do,

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Speaker 2: but it's kind of a small town vibe, you know.

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Speaker 1: Do you go to like Lake Powell and the water

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Speaker 1: and places like that on you know, for vacation or

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Speaker 1: like those houseboats things like that.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes usually when it gets too hot, I just head

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Speaker 2: back to La though for a break.

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Speaker 1: Okay, And what is work in Vegas? Now? So you

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Speaker 1: have a very interesting story. I kind of would have

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Speaker 1: known that peripherally obviously for what I've seen in the media,

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Speaker 1: but after reading about you, just like you know, you

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Speaker 1: see all these people that you hear about or you

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Speaker 1: see in the press, and like you don't dig deep

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Speaker 1: under the hood and like and I'm like, wow, Like

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Speaker 1: I never really thought this much about Holly Madison and

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Speaker 1: what a crazy, crazy ride in life. So I can't

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Speaker 1: wait to talk to you about it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. Yeah. As far as work, I shoot the

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Speaker 2: Playboy Murtyers there and my other new true crime show

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Speaker 2: weth Lee Blonde that's coming out in March. We shoot

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Speaker 2: those in Vegas.

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Speaker 1: So you have a pretty big, successful business that continues

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Speaker 1: and thrives.

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Speaker 2: I enjoy it. Yeah, thank you.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that people are surprised, or that they

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Speaker 1: think of you they've pigeonhole you, pigeonholed you as the

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Speaker 1: girl in the playboy mansion, and that people don't really

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Speaker 1: realize the kind of bread of business success that you've had.

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Speaker 2: I think so, Yeah, people like to just narrow it

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Speaker 2: down and be like, oh, the only reason you have

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Speaker 2: anything as you are on Girls next Door, and they

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Speaker 2: just because they're not paying attention, which obviously I don't

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Speaker 2: expect everyone to play super close attention everything I'm doing,

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Speaker 2: but people like to kind of boil it down to

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Speaker 2: one thing and think that everything you know comes from that.

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Speaker 2: But really I've been steadily working just on different things

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Speaker 2: throughout my life.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and how many people have been on reality television

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Speaker 1: and not created a successful business out of it. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you haven't been on that kind of a mainstream show

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Speaker 1: like myself for years. And similarly, oh they made you

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Speaker 1: like they made me. I made them too, you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean. Like it happens a lot.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you picked up the torch and you ran with it,

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Speaker 2: and people don't want to give credit.

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Speaker 1: You know, having lived in La I realize what a

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Speaker 1: small town it is. I've worked for Jerry Bruckheimer and

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Speaker 1: Lauren Michaels and I worked at La Scala, and I've

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Speaker 1: had a million jobs, and you end up knowing everyone

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Speaker 1: way more than New York or other places, like you

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Speaker 1: know everyone and you know the assistance that become the

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Speaker 1: studio heads. And having spent so many times at those

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Speaker 1: Playboy parties and me living out there during that time,

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Speaker 1: never being invited, but knowing people that would be there.

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Speaker 1: That guy Shane Black remember, used to have those parties

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Speaker 1: in loose Feeless, Like there were these big, sort of

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Speaker 1: alluring parties that were famous in LA. Parties in Malibu.

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Speaker 1: I came up at the same time as you, and

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Speaker 1: everybody knew everybody. So the reason I mentioned that is

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Speaker 1: that I wonder if you run into people a lot

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Speaker 1: now who like know that you know where all the

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Speaker 1: dead bodies are buried.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes yeah, I mean as far as like other parties

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Speaker 2: in LA. Wasn't really allowed to kind of go anywhere

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Speaker 2: else too much once I was in the mansion, so

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Speaker 2: it was kind of just that circle. But I do

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Speaker 2: run into people a lot who are like, oh, well,

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Speaker 2: I met you at the mansion, and I'm like, I

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Speaker 2: don't know, I must have been drunk, like I was

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Speaker 2: feel bad because so many people would come up and

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Speaker 2: say hi. To happen. I would say hi as well,

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Speaker 2: But it's a lot of people.

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Speaker 1: Well, have you had any good business relationships? Because of

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Speaker 1: people mostly men who were there at the house, Like

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of executives, I know a lot

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Speaker 1: of them, writers, agents, managers. I mean everybody used to go.

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Speaker 1: There was no stigma to it like there would be now.

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Speaker 2: I would say most of my connections that I carry

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Speaker 2: through are more from E when we were doing girls door,

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Speaker 2: not so much people I met at the mansion because

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Speaker 2: for the big parties when more people would come, I

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Speaker 2: was expected more to just like sit at the table

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Speaker 2: with half the whole time, and I would say hi

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Speaker 2: to people who came up and stuff. But I didn't

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Speaker 2: really get the chance to know a lot of people.

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Speaker 1: I understand, and for people that don't know, most people

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Speaker 1: don't know. How did you get that opportunity? How did

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Speaker 1: you become the top Hefner girl to be at that

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Speaker 1: seat at the table, Like how did that happen? That process?

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Speaker 1: And where were you living like the whole journey to

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Speaker 1: get there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was in college and I was going to

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Speaker 2: the Playboy Mansion parties, which were really like the cool

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Speaker 2: parties at the time, and I started getting invited to

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Speaker 2: the pool parties, the Fun and the sun Pool parties

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Speaker 2: because those were a little more intimate. It was a

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Speaker 2: much smaller guest list, and you know, I would chat

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Speaker 2: with half a little bit and stuff. I felt like

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Speaker 2: I kind of knew him, and a lot of the

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Speaker 2: girlfriends of his would talk to me and like invite

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Speaker 2: me out and stuff, And at first I didn't want

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Speaker 2: to go, but then I decided, you know what, I

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Speaker 2: kind of want to move in because I had two

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Speaker 2: roommates at the time who were moving out, and I

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Speaker 2: didn't really know anybody else, and my credit sucked and

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Speaker 2: all that, and I thought, you know what, I should

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Speaker 2: give this thing a try so I'm not homeless. I

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Speaker 2: thought it would be fun based on the people I

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Speaker 2: knew at the parties and like that level of access

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Speaker 2: that I had. Right so I moved in and you know,

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Speaker 2: got in over my head. I feel it was a

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Speaker 2: much like more intense situation than I was expected. But

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Speaker 2: as far as being the number one girlfriend, I feel

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Speaker 2: like that happened because a few months after I moved in,

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Speaker 2: the main girlfriend at the time was moving out, and

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Speaker 2: everybody kind of knew that, and the other girls didn't

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Speaker 2: want that spot, and they were like, oh, you know,

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Speaker 2: I think Keath likes you the best. I think you're

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Speaker 2: going to be the main girlfriend because you know, he

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Speaker 2: and I would like watch movies together and things like that.

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Speaker 2: And I always enjoyed like being down at the dinner

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Speaker 2: table and kind of the quote unquote boring stuff that

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Speaker 2: the other girls didn't want to do. So it kind

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Speaker 2: of just naturally happened. It wasn't like something I had

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Speaker 2: to fight anybody for anything like that.

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Speaker 1: Was there a contract that had to be signed. Obviously

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Speaker 1: there was an NBA, but with a salary and benefits,

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Speaker 1: and it was as if you were taking like a

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Speaker 1: real job.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely not. I think a lot of people picture that.

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Speaker 2: I think, you know, people love to be like you

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Speaker 2: knew exactly what you were getting into. I think they

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Speaker 2: picture that scene in Fifty Shades of Gray where she

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Speaker 2: sits down at that conference table and she's given that

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Speaker 2: fat stack of papers to sign. But it was nothing

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Speaker 2: like that. There was no NDA, there was no contract,

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Speaker 2: there was no benefits, really like he would pay for

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Speaker 2: people's medical expenses and like doctor's appointments and stuff that

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Speaker 2: lived there, but it was all very informal in that way.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm going to share something because I think that

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Speaker 1: it's easy for people to judge that situation, people who

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Speaker 1: have daughters, like, how the hell, how did your mother

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Speaker 1: let you all of these things? And yet we see

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Speaker 1: all these things happen. I lived in la and when

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Speaker 1: I worked for Jerry Brookhimer, he had another house that

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Speaker 1: he was renting out to different people, like Steve Tish

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Speaker 1: who did for his gumber, Jennifer Tilly, one of the Tillies,

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Speaker 1: and we got to be in that house Malibu, like

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Speaker 1: that rich house, but we were like I was driving

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Speaker 1: a Ford Probe and everybody would come in and out

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Speaker 1: of that whole strip of beach that was whrest alone

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Speaker 1: was you know, Carbon Canyon. This is this expensive people

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Speaker 1: who don't know Malibu strip that Now the houses are

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Speaker 1: fifty sixty one hundred million dollars. This house was probably

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Speaker 1: like five six million then. And down the street was

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Speaker 1: a man named Kevin O'Donnell, and he rented out Bruce

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Speaker 1: Willis's house, and he had come into new big tech

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Speaker 1: bubble money and he used to have these big parties,

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Speaker 1: and my friend was friends with him, so we were

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Speaker 1: good friends with him. And every weekend we were girls

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Speaker 1: that got to hang out at this house where every

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Speaker 1: power agent, the people running Hollywood, now no exaggeration, like

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Speaker 1: Oliver Stone was through there, Patrick White, so Us, every

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Speaker 1: Leo Decap, everybody was through these houses. And there were

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Speaker 1: these amazing parties, and it was so great to be

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Speaker 1: like the girls. And we didn't hook up with anybody,

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Speaker 1: wouldn't have to do anything, but the girls that were

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Speaker 1: friends with this guy who was really wasted all the time.

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Speaker 1: We became friends with his wife too, that they had

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Speaker 1: like an interesting marriage. We were too young to understand

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Speaker 1: non traditional marriages and billionaires and tech money, but we

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Speaker 1: loved being able to hang out there. We were poor

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Speaker 1: girls that were like getting to eat and drink like

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Speaker 1: for free, and have massages and go to these parties

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Speaker 1: and meet people. And it was like, I'm glad for

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Speaker 1: the stories that happened. I'm sure we could have gotten

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Speaker 1: ourselves into trouble. I grew up at the racetrack really

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Speaker 1: down and dirty, so I was able to handle myself.

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Speaker 1: But I relate to what I think you were saying,

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Speaker 1: and the story you're going to tell because that's what

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Speaker 1: LA was for many people.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. You know, for somebody like a young girl

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Speaker 2: from the middle of nowhere, it's a very expensive place

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Speaker 2: to live, especially if you don't know anybody. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: if you got an opportunity like that, people want to

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Speaker 2: take it.

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Speaker 1: And what did you want to be when you grew up.

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Speaker 2: I didn't have anything particular in mind. I wanted to

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Speaker 2: do something in the entertainment industry. I wasn't sure why.

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Speaker 2: I definitely wanted to to be in Playboy. I was

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Speaker 2: just auditioning and doing all the things, but trying to

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Speaker 2: keep my grades up in college to keep my scholarships

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Speaker 2: and work as full time as I could, you know,

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Speaker 2: to pay the rent, and also audition. I was just

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Speaker 2: kind of failing at all of it because I was

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Speaker 2: trying to do too much.

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Speaker 1: And what about the sexual aspect, like having sex with

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Speaker 1: multiple partners and it's almost like what is it called

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Speaker 1: polyamorous or like what was that dynamic between the women?

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Speaker 1: It sounds like it's from not only another generation, but

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Speaker 1: another culture.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I didn't get along with a lot of

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Speaker 2: the girls. It was really uncomfortable. You know, nobody wants

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Speaker 2: to be Well, some people do, I guess, but I

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Speaker 2: don't want to be like really in a room, you know,

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Speaker 2: having sex with somebody and then having all these other

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Speaker 2: people around, like all these other girls watching. So that

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Speaker 2: was really like embarrassing and uncomfortable.

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Speaker 1: And that does sound like that move that show, the

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Speaker 1: Vow the cult, where like this male figure it has

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Speaker 1: these compartmentalized relationships with different people, very strategically, very intentionally,

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Speaker 1: and each person is you're the favorite and I love

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Speaker 1: you in a different way, or you know, I was

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Speaker 1: met was I was represented by Kendra's agent also, so

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Speaker 1: I knew her priferly and I've met her, but like, oh,

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Speaker 1: you're the cute, sporty one, it's different for you. And

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Speaker 1: that's why I think it's interesting that you've talked about

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Speaker 1: Stockholm syndrome and the word cult has been thrown around

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Speaker 1: because it's a situation where a male figure in power

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Speaker 1: is making all these women feel special in a certain way,

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Speaker 1: but like not really wanting them to let each other

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Speaker 1: know that relationship.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, there was definitely a lot of two faced

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Speaker 2: stuff going on, you know, letting some girls get away

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Speaker 2: with some things but not others. Telling one girl one thing.

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Speaker 2: You know, he loved the drama, he loved the girl's fighting,

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Speaker 2: and for the longest time, I just didn't see it.

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Speaker 2: I thought we were super close, and I always kind

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Speaker 2: of blamed it on the other girls for the longest time,

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Speaker 2: and I didn't really wake up to that until I

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Speaker 2: was about ready to leave.

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Speaker 1: I coming from housewives, find it interesting, and I can't

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Speaker 1: help but say that it's interesting how the men and

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Speaker 1: I'm not the woman who's always calling like, oh, the

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Speaker 1: men are the devil. I'm not that person. I've never

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Speaker 1: been that person. I'm just a strong person and that's

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Speaker 1: why I'm successful. But I will say there's a dynamic

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Speaker 1: where the men, like I see Andy Cohen running this

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Speaker 1: whole operation of women, but he never gets dirty. The

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Speaker 1: women are fighting with each other and often on his show,

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Speaker 1: it's like the intersection of driving more conflict by getting

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Speaker 1: people to talk about each other, but he remains clean.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's interesting that you're saying that all

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Speaker 1: the girls who are supposed to be supporting each other

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Speaker 1: are fighting. It happens on The Bachelor too, the Bachelor

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Speaker 1: sitting over there, the women are all fighting with each other,

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Speaker 1: and the man is remaining clean while women tear each

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Speaker 1: other down, rip each other apart, and somehow the power

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Speaker 1: figure is like the king watching the jesters entertain him.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. It's really toxic for sure. And that was definitely

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Speaker 2: going on. There interesting a lot of wisted energy, I feel.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And what about so you're divorced now, so you're

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Speaker 1: a single mom?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean, well, I don't call myself a single mom.

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Speaker 2: I don't really like it when people who are divorced,

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Speaker 2: who have a father who's involved with the kids and

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Speaker 2: doing half the work. I don't like it when people

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Speaker 2: say single mom. Not to be judgy, but you know,

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of women out there who really have

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Speaker 2: to do it themselves and don't have help. So I'm

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Speaker 2: single and the mom, But I wouldn't I get that.

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Speaker 1: I like that because you're co parent And yeah, so

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Speaker 1: you have a good co parent.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, he's a great dad. I'm really really lucky.

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Speaker 1: Wow. Okay. And what about romantic life and dating?

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Speaker 2: I've been dating the same guy for four years, so

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Speaker 2: it's good.

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Speaker 1: Okay. And what do you do you do you want

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Speaker 1: to get married again?

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Speaker 2: I'm not opposed to it, but it's not like on

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Speaker 2: my bucket list. I feel like I had my dream

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Speaker 2: wedding and all that when I was married the first time,

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Speaker 2: so I'm not like focused on it.

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Speaker 1: I get that too, because at a certain you're younger

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Speaker 1: than I, but at a certain age you're like you

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Speaker 1: were married. It does become another contract and an entanglement

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Speaker 1: with another person that might not be necessary if you

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Speaker 1: don't plan to have more kids, for example, Yeah, exactly, okay,

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Speaker 1: and you're both going back and forth from Vegas to

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Speaker 1: La or the bas is Vegas.

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Speaker 2: We're both we're both back and forth.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay. So if you were sitting on the plane

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Speaker 1: next to someone and they said what do you do

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Speaker 1: for a living? What would you say? They didn't know

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Speaker 1: who you were.

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Speaker 2: I usually just say I'm a writer.

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Speaker 1: You usually say I'm a writer, And then what have

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Speaker 1: you written? You just tell about and talk about.

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Speaker 2: Your books, and yeah, yeah, I say I write memoirs.

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Speaker 2: You know. Sometimes sometimes if I meet somebody and they

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Speaker 2: ask too many questions, I get really shy and I

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Speaker 2: probably say a bunch of weird shit I don't know.

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Speaker 1: And and that too, you think people think because you're shy,

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Speaker 1: you can be like bitchy or judgmental. You said you.

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Speaker 1: I read something about you saying that people you don't

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Speaker 1: know when people are finished talking.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I'm on the spectrum and I have what

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Speaker 2: they call flat effect, which means you have a really

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Speaker 2: monotone voice and your face doesn't show a lot of expressions.

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Speaker 2: So you know, people have always thought I was super

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Speaker 2: stuck up or mean or whatever. So that's kind of

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Speaker 2: like something I've had to learn to handle and like

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Speaker 2: adjust to you a little bit.

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Speaker 1: Does it help you because you seem unbothered?

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Speaker 2: Yeah for sure. I mean well, also, like I'm forty

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Speaker 2: four and I just feel like I've been this way

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Speaker 2: for so long. I'm not really trying to change too

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Speaker 2: much anymore.

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Speaker 1: So does all the Jeffrey Epstein stuff trigger you thinking

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Speaker 1: about a man like that and all these young women?

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Speaker 1: Back to what I was saying before, Like, when you

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Speaker 1: hear about that, what do you think?

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's so crazy. I feel like we probably

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Speaker 2: don't even know the half of what's going on. It's

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Speaker 2: such a weird, secretive thing, and it's really terrifying, and

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Speaker 2: I feel awful that those things happen to those women.

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Speaker 2: It's really scary.

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Speaker 1: And do you do anything, like is that part of

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Speaker 1: your platform, like with charity or anything sort of like,

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Speaker 1: is there a message for younger women who are doe

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Speaker 1: ied coming into these you know, who are young in

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Speaker 1: their twenties, coming into situations, like how to navigate them,

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Speaker 1: how to not make the same mistakes maybe that you've made,

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Speaker 1: or even just cautionary tales. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think it's so important for us to share our

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Speaker 2: stories so other people can learn from them. I feel

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Speaker 2: like now, you know, in the mainstream media and just

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Speaker 2: on podcasts and stuff, people are having conversations about things

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Speaker 2: that they never would have talked about when I was twenty,

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean. Just there's a lot less

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Speaker 2: shame involved in talking about sex and talking about interpersonal relationships,

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Speaker 2: and I think that's so amazing. Even, you know, scrolling

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Speaker 2: TikTok on my for you page, I see so much

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Speaker 2: stuff I can relate to you, whether it's relationship stuff

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Speaker 2: or other people who are in narcissistic abuse relationships, or

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Speaker 2: you know, other people who are on the spectrum. I

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Speaker 2: just think that we live in such an amazing age

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Speaker 2: as far as learning from one another.

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Speaker 1: It's so true. Everyone's talking about everything now. So do

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Speaker 1: you consider yourself a hustler, Like, are you still working

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Speaker 1: as hard as you've ever worked? Are you slowing down

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Speaker 1: at all? And what's driving you now? Is it money?

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Speaker 1: Is it success? Is it trying to stay relevant knowing

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Speaker 1: that the landscape has changed.

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Speaker 2: I definitely still feel like a hustler, but I'm really

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Speaker 2: careful to like divide my time fifty to fifty. You know,

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Speaker 2: I have joint custody with my ex husband, so when

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Speaker 2: I'm with my kids, I try and put my phone

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Speaker 2: away as much as possible and just completely focus on them.

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Speaker 2: So like my hustling time is definitely way more limited

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Speaker 2: than it used to be. But I still feel like

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Speaker 2: I'm a hustler. And then like shit goes wrong, you know,

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Speaker 2: like Bridgett and I met up. She's my co host

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Speaker 2: for my podcast, and we we batch recorded a bunch

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Speaker 2: of stuff, so we're like, we're not going to be

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Speaker 2: together for the next six weeks, and then the audio

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Speaker 2: was messed up on all this stuff, so now we

380
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Speaker 2: have to last minute, Like we just were together like

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Speaker 2: late last night and then again this week. It's like

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Speaker 2: my worst nightmare, but you know, we have fun doing it,

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Speaker 2: and I just feel like like I'm definitely not resting

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Speaker 2: when it comes to that side of my life. And

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Speaker 2: as far as what drives me, I don't even know

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Speaker 2: what drives me. You know. I was in a place

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Speaker 2: where I was married and doing really well financially and

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Speaker 2: had two amazing kids, and I just kind of had

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Speaker 2: this weird feeling that I still needed to be putting

390
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Speaker 2: something out there and I couldn't really feel what it was.

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Speaker 2: And now looking back, I think it's more, you know,

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Speaker 2: I'm sharing my story for a reason because it might

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Speaker 2: help other people who can relate or might be like

394
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Speaker 2: on the brink of getting into some sort of situation.

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Speaker 2: So it's just kind of this weird, like internal thing.

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Speaker 2: I'm also a Capricorn, so I'm just never going to

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Speaker 2: stop working.

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Speaker 1: I get what you're saying in that, and you're younger

399
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Speaker 1: than I am, but it starts to be where you're stacking,

400
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Speaker 1: where you have kids and you want the quality versus quantity.

401
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Speaker 1: So you're like it started when they were napping as babies,

402
00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:52,879
Speaker 1: where you're like, all right, now is when I go

403
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Speaker 1: get my manicure, like this is it? Like this is

404
00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:57,520
Speaker 1: you know, and then then they get older and you're like, okay,

405
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Speaker 1: they're at school, we're doing this, or I don't have

406
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Speaker 1: my child for this time. When you first start getting

407
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Speaker 1: a divorce, you're having anxiety about that time apart, but

408
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Speaker 1: it becomes valuable time because then you can be totally

409
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Speaker 1: present with them and totally present without them. I feel

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Speaker 1: I relate to that one hundred percent, and it's very

411
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Speaker 1: it's like chunks, so you can define them versus like

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Speaker 1: they say that moms now spend more time in many

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Speaker 1: cases with their kids than the fifties moms that didn't

414
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Speaker 1: work because they were like drinking wine, smoking cigarettes, let

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Speaker 1: the kid out the back, like it wasn't. Just because

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Speaker 1: you are with your kids doesn't mean you're really with

417
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Speaker 1: your kids. So you can do it both ways exactly.

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Speaker 2: And I'm really grateful for my schedule and I feel

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Speaker 2: like it works really well for me and allows me

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Speaker 2: to put my attention where it's best used.

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Speaker 1: I feel like, yeah, you're like me. Your life is

422
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Speaker 1: defined by the calendar, like for sure it makes you

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Speaker 1: feel safe. Yeah, same, And I also relate to like,

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Speaker 1: at a certain point, you're kind of like I'm sort

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Speaker 1: of might be almost retiring, Like I have enough money,

426
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Speaker 1: don't need to work, Like I don't want to feel

427
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Speaker 1: that like stripped stress I used to feel when I

428
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Speaker 1: was climbing, and then you pull back a little and

429
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Speaker 1: then you're like, I want to dip in a little more,

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Speaker 1: like I want to be doing something, but I want

431
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Speaker 1: to really only be doing what I want to be

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Speaker 1: doing or I'm passionate about.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, there's just if you feel like you have

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Speaker 2: something to share, something to contribute that somebody might benefit from.

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Speaker 2: It's like this calling you have and you can't ignore it.

436
00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:28,000
Speaker 1: I feel, yes, And what do you think about now

437
00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:33,080
Speaker 1: that being in twenty twenty four versus television really being

438
00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:34,520
Speaker 1: one of the only outlets. It used to be the

439
00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:36,720
Speaker 1: TV was really where you had to have a platform,

440
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:38,760
Speaker 1: But now you have social media and now you could

441
00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:41,480
Speaker 1: do YouTube, you could do Instagram, you could do anything.

442
00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:44,399
Speaker 2: One hundred percent, I'm so grateful for social media and

443
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:46,720
Speaker 2: just being able to share and speak out, Like I

444
00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:48,600
Speaker 2: talk about it on my podcast all the time. Bridget

445
00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:50,040
Speaker 2: and I are always talking about you know, the old

446
00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:53,280
Speaker 2: Girls Nextdoor episodes, and you know what things were like

447
00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:55,639
Speaker 2: back then, and things were so different because you really

448
00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:58,479
Speaker 2: couldn't speak out if somebody else was putting a narrative

449
00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:01,080
Speaker 2: out about you. That was just what everybody believed full stop.

450
00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:03,680
Speaker 2: Like back then, we had MySpace pages and you could

451
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:05,840
Speaker 2: write like a little post if you wanted, and maybe

452
00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:08,600
Speaker 2: somebody would pick up on it. But it wasn't that,

453
00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:11,399
Speaker 2: you know, important, It didn't have the weight that social

454
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:13,879
Speaker 2: media does now. And just I even feel like for

455
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,040
Speaker 2: me during the pandemic, when I started a YouTube and

456
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:17,880
Speaker 2: started at TikTok, it was the first time I learned

457
00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:20,720
Speaker 2: to really be genuine, like talking to a camera and

458
00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:23,240
Speaker 2: really feeling like I was connecting to people because on

459
00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:25,320
Speaker 2: the reality shows I was always so scared and like

460
00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:28,240
Speaker 2: holding back and like scared of being embarrassed and things

461
00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:31,119
Speaker 2: like that. So I'm really grateful for those outlets for sure.

462
00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:34,320
Speaker 1: So you feel in control of your edit, I mean,

463
00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:36,560
Speaker 1: and you don't miss traditional television.

464
00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:39,160
Speaker 2: No, the stuff I work on now, it's true crime,

465
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:41,479
Speaker 2: so it's more documentary. I feel like that's better suited

466
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,200
Speaker 2: to me. I'm super interested in it. I don't miss

467
00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:46,120
Speaker 2: like doing reality TV.

468
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:49,679
Speaker 1: I don't either, I really don't, because you're not in

469
00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:52,440
Speaker 1: control and you put something in the oven that comes

470
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:54,840
Speaker 1: out six months later and you don't know literally what's

471
00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:55,280
Speaker 1: coming out of.

472
00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:58,280
Speaker 2: The oven exactly. It's scary.

473
00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:00,280
Speaker 1: It's scary in each week you're living it and like

474
00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:02,159
Speaker 1: biting your nails just to see her safe.

475
00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:03,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.

476
00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:06,719
Speaker 1: And then that defines what people are going to think

477
00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:08,000
Speaker 1: of you, and you have to live that out in

478
00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:11,080
Speaker 1: the press. It's like a machine and it feels like

479
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:13,720
Speaker 1: Mark Cuban I think it was said to me. We

480
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:16,280
Speaker 1: were talking about cable and places like Bravo, et cetera,

481
00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:18,879
Speaker 1: and he was like, it's streamers for old people. I

482
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:22,439
Speaker 1: was laughing, like, you know, it's it's interesting. Now, what

483
00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:25,600
Speaker 1: about your kids? It's Rainbow and Forrest. How old are they?

484
00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:27,080
Speaker 2: Ten and seven?

485
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:32,080
Speaker 1: Okay, so Rainbow's ten? So does she have any understanding

486
00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:35,639
Speaker 1: about your past? Does she have any judgment? Does she

487
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:36,200
Speaker 1: get it?

488
00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:36,359
Speaker 2: Like?

489
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:38,200
Speaker 1: What does she? Does she even know you're famous?

490
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:40,760
Speaker 2: No, she doesn't know anything about it. She knows people

491
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:42,960
Speaker 2: come up to me sometimes and she knows I have

492
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:46,440
Speaker 2: a podcast and a YouTube, but she doesn't know the content.

493
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 1: I get it because it takes It won't happen until

494
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:52,000
Speaker 1: like thirteen years old, where they'll they just start scrolling

495
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:55,160
Speaker 1: and my daughter's all over it too, but it doesn't

496
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:59,440
Speaker 1: they they disconnect somehow, which is actually positive. Okay, yeah,

497
00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 1: they discnt you're a big reader.

498
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:03,720
Speaker 2: I do love reading. I don't have as much time

499
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:05,840
Speaker 2: to read anymore as I would like, but yeah, I

500
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:09,560
Speaker 2: just finished an autobiography from one of the women from

501
00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:11,919
Speaker 2: one of the cases of the Playboy murders, because obviously

502
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:13,800
Speaker 2: i'd studied the case before as we were filming it,

503
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:15,920
Speaker 2: but I hadn't read her full autobiography. But I wanted

504
00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:18,359
Speaker 2: to get into that before I started doing press for it,

505
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:20,920
Speaker 2: so I just finished that. It was really interesting, and

506
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:23,920
Speaker 2: I'm reading the Rick Rubin book now. It's like a

507
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:27,640
Speaker 2: all about art and getting into your creative process.

508
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 1: Yes, Paul, my fiance, is a big reader. He read

509
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,520
Speaker 1: that book too. Do you watch a lot of mystery

510
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:32,880
Speaker 1: on TV?

511
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:37,880
Speaker 2: I grew up loving unsolved mysteries. That was my favorite thing,

512
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:39,560
Speaker 2: and I think that's kind of what got me along

513
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,320
Speaker 2: the track to being what I'm into now. I do

514
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:45,640
Speaker 2: enjoy true crime programming and true crime podcasts.

515
00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:51,400
Speaker 1: I just subscribed to BritBox because anything with like some small, dark,

516
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 1: rainy town where there's like a murder that's unsolved or

517
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:57,320
Speaker 1: a kidnap, it like, I get so sucked in. Paul's

518
00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 1: on into that stuff. He didn't like anything international. He

519
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:01,040
Speaker 1: wants it to be in the United States. I don't

520
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 1: know why. Like if it's like from Scotland, He's like, no,

521
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,080
Speaker 1: it's got it's just like a thing, you know, where

522
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 1: you're attracted to things on TV. And if it's Scotland,

523
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 1: if it's like a bizarre like Dublin suburb or Scotland,

524
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:13,120
Speaker 1: I'm like.

525
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:16,159
Speaker 2: In that's so funny. I'm desperate to go to Scotland. Like,

526
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:18,399
Speaker 2: out of all the places I haven't visited, that's the

527
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 2: one I'm so excited to go to.

528
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:20,600
Speaker 1: Why.

529
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,600
Speaker 2: I love anything kind of creepy and eerie and there's

530
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:26,840
Speaker 2: so many ghost stories and I just love the old school,

531
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 2: like old Harry Potter look to everything and the atmosphere

532
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 2: and then like the Isle of Sky and all like

533
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 2: the you know, mystical stuff.

534
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 1: I'm dying to go to Morocco.

535
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 2: Ooh that's so cool.

536
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like that's my that's my place, like yours of

537
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 1: Scotland where it's just like just like I could I

538
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 1: want to eat out of the tajin and the couscous

539
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 1: and like the mystical and the bell rings at night,

540
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 1: like you know, it's just like very spiritual, mystical, and

541
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 1: I'm I'm I want that feeling.

542
00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 2: I want you got to do it.

543
00:24:55,280 --> 00:25:00,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think a lot about traditional relationships and non

544
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 1: traditional relationships. And I bring that up because when we're younger,

545
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,720
Speaker 1: it's the fairy tale and everybody just I'm starting to

546
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:09,200
Speaker 1: believe half the people want to get married just to

547
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,119
Speaker 1: be able to have the wedding and buy the dress,

548
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,879
Speaker 1: and then people have these ideals about what it's supposed

549
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 1: to be. But now being in my fifties, having a

550
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:22,640
Speaker 1: fiance who lives in Boston, having my own career, having

551
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,160
Speaker 1: my own money, not needing to depend upon anyone for anything,

552
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 1: I think about traditional and non traditional because most people

553
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 1: that I know who have sustained very long relationships, it's

554
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 1: some version of non traditional.

555
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 2: Oh that's so interesting.

556
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:44,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just want to talk about where you the

557
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 1: relationship that you were in which was so high profile

558
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 1: and so non traditional, that I want to know where

559
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 1: you stand on traditional versus non traditional relationships.

560
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm very non judgmental about what anybody wants

561
00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 2: to do. As far as like being monogamous. I'm not

562
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 2: traditional in that way. I don't like, you know, people

563
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 2: messing around.

564
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 1: With other people saying saying, well, I.

565
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 2: Do think it's so important for everybody to design their

566
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 2: own relationship and have their own boundaries and give each

567
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:15,199
Speaker 2: other their own space and respect their own time. So

568
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,680
Speaker 2: it's it's almost like the thing with the coming back

569
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:19,400
Speaker 2: to the kids and putting your full attention, so you're

570
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 2: excited to see each other again. And I think I

571
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:24,640
Speaker 2: bet a lot of people are scared to even try

572
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,120
Speaker 2: that because they want to, you know, show this united

573
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,919
Speaker 2: front at all times, and they're scared of judgment and

574
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:31,919
Speaker 2: what are the people in the neighborhood going to say.

575
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,960
Speaker 2: But I think it's so important for each couple to

576
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 2: communicate and kind of like design what works for them.

577
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 1: I think so too, and I think it evolves. And

578
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 1: I think one of the biggest problems for the younger

579
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 1: generation is that no one's telling them the truth about that.

580
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 1: When you're in your twenties, you think, what are we

581
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 1: doing for dinner? What are we doing this weekend? We

582
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 1: go to your parents, ask my parents as we go

583
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:53,640
Speaker 1: on a vacation, what we like. We are one person

584
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,680
Speaker 1: and it's not realistic. What if one person likes to

585
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:58,439
Speaker 1: go to the beach, the other person likes to go skiing.

586
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:00,679
Speaker 1: One person likes to party the other part since boring

587
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 1: goes to bed at nine o'clock at night. I have

588
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,120
Speaker 1: a friend who's been married for thirty five years who

589
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,639
Speaker 1: he goes to bed at nine and her night starts.

590
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 1: She's on the treadmill, she's eating her candy, she's watching

591
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,879
Speaker 1: her show, she's drinking her cocktails. She goes to bed

592
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 1: at one o'clock. She's different life.

593
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,920
Speaker 2: Those are some of the best relationships. I think everybody's

594
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 2: allowed to thrive, and then people come together when they want.

595
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, and now also with sixty percent divorce, if you

596
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 1: have two separate individuals, each individual might have children, different jobs,

597
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:35,399
Speaker 1: different like you know, I have my time with my daughter.

598
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:37,359
Speaker 1: I have my time with my daughter and Paul, I

599
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 1: have my time with all of us, blending, I have

600
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 1: my time alone. Like there aren't that many, you know,

601
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 1: even more than quadrants. It's broken up into fifths that

602
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,120
Speaker 1: you can't do it like a one size fits all.

603
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, I agree with that one hundred percent.

604
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 1: I think I want to talk about that just more

605
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 1: as a general concept because I just think that young

606
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 1: women want that ring and that dress, but they don't

607
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 1: understand that like you can't depend upon another person, you

608
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 1: can't be another person, which is also connected to financial

609
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:10,119
Speaker 1: independence too, I think, by the.

610
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:13,680
Speaker 2: Way, yeah, absolutely, it's so important to maintain your financial

611
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:15,680
Speaker 2: independence one hundred percent. Even if you even if you

612
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 2: think you're never going to have to work again, like

613
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 2: you could be surprised. And also things will happen to you,

614
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 2: like if you decide to not work for a year

615
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,200
Speaker 2: and you want some kind of refinancing on something later,

616
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 2: you know, people will tell you, oh, well, why weren't

617
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 2: you working for a year, And it's like, well, I

618
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:30,719
Speaker 2: just had my second kid and I didn't have to,

619
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:32,120
Speaker 2: but they'll hold it against you.

620
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:36,680
Speaker 1: I find that even in a situation where the people

621
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 1: really are equals and it's a partnership, I find that

622
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 1: money is always going to be a source of power

623
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 1: and control. And I find that if you're not, as

624
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 1: a woman making your own money something, it does even

625
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 1: if you have to you don't even realize you have

626
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 1: to ask somebody to buy something you want. You want

627
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 1: an apartment, even if it's a small studio apartment. You

628
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 1: have to ask permission to do this, to do that

629
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 1: because it's quote unquote a partnership. So everybody you know

630
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 1: who wants to ask permission to do something if you

631
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 1: don't have to, I mean, or have some or have

632
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 1: to do something you don't want to do because you're

633
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 1: not the one making the money.

634
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, one hundred percent. I agree.

635
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 1: You know, it's like even a situation like I find

636
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 1: that there's a dynamic where young girls have to play

637
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 1: the game, like with the in laws, or different dynamics

638
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 1: because they're not the ones making the gold.

639
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.

640
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 1: I just think it's an interesting thing money and the

641
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 1: idea of tradition. What was your childhood like like? Was

642
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 1: it quote unquote normal?

643
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 2: I mean, I had two parents who are together. They're

644
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 2: still together now, they're great. We lived in Alaska, out

645
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 2: in the midd of nowhere for the longest time, and

646
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 2: then I moved to Oregon when I was in junior high.

647
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 2: I think probably the biggest obstacle for me was just

648
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 2: like being on the spectrum and not knowing it and

649
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 2: maybe having a little more trouble making friends. So I

650
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 2: felt really isolated, and I think that's part of the

651
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 2: reason I kind of wanted to get into the entertainment industry.

652
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 2: I felt like being known was like a shortcut to

653
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 2: feeling connected with people through like those parasocial relationships, or

654
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 2: even why it was so easy for me to bond

655
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 2: with hef is he's so good at making people feel special,

656
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 2: and I start to think, oh, well, I never really

657
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 2: connected with guys my own age. Maybe this is just

658
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 2: like the person who's meant for me, When really I

659
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 2: can look back and be like, no, girl, you're just

660
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 2: wired differently.

661
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 1: Were you in love with him? Did you love him?

662
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, after I'd been there a while, I did. I

663
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 2: think it was kind of Stockholm syndrome me though, where

664
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 2: I felt very much identified by with or identified with

665
00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 2: the person who made all the rules. And especially since

666
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 2: the girls in the house were pitted against each other,

667
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 2: you start to feel a little more isolated and like

668
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 2: you know that man is the one person you can

669
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:07,239
Speaker 2: rely on.

670
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 1: Kind of do you ultimately feel like you could rely

671
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 1: on him? Or it was the it was literally the

672
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 1: quintessential conditional love relationship.

673
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 2: Oh, it's definitely conditional, Like you had to follow every

674
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 2: role to a tee, show up to everything, couldn't really

675
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 2: have a sick day.

676
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 1: Did he leave any of you anything?

677
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 2: Well, I wasn't with him when he passed I was

678
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 2: in the will. I know that before I left, but

679
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 2: then I broke it off with him, So.

680
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 1: You were in the wall before you left, and I

681
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 1: also having had a very challenging father, I relate to

682
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 1: feeling somewhat dispassionate when someone passes away, and like everyone

683
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 1: else is judging that experience for you, and how can

684
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 1: you be you know, people so many times get up

685
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 1: at a funeral and other people are rolling their eyes

686
00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 1: the way they're talking about the person that passed the

687
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 1: way because they have to say something positive because someone's

688
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 1: you're respecting someone who's past. But there's a lot of

689
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 1: complicated feelings about it. So you didn't did you feel

690
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 1: something negative? Did you feel nothing? Did you feel relieved?

691
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 2: I didn't really feel anything. You know, he was so

692
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 2: much older. I kind of felt it was coming relatively soon.

693
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 2: And for me, you know, I was really emotionally involved

694
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 2: in the relationship when I was in it. But when

695
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,239
Speaker 2: I decided to leave, it was because I really was

696
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 2: realizing he wasn't the person I was idealizing in my head,

697
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 2: and he was very deceptive and very much playing me

698
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 2: off of other people. So when I made the move

699
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 2: to leave, my image of him kind of shattered in

700
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 2: my mind, and I realized I never really knew this person,

701
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 2: you know. And there would be times, you know, I

702
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 2: would still be shooting my spinoff show for E and

703
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 2: like the producer knew Heff and was always trying to

704
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 2: get me on the phone with Heaf or shoot scenes

705
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 2: with Helf, and sometimes I would, but I never really

706
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 2: want to have like a conversation with him because I

707
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 2: was just I just felt like he was so fake.

708
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 2: Everything he said to me, it was just designed to

709
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 2: manipulate or create a certain impression or keep me on

710
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 2: his good side. So it's almost like he became this

711
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 2: kind of robot in my mind, almost this non person.

712
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 2: So it's hard to feel anything when you feel like

713
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 2: you've never really known them, which is so weird to

714
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 2: say because we spent almost every day of seven years together.

715
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:24,040
Speaker 1: Jesus.

716
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 2: Yeah.

717
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 1: Well, it's funny you say that because I've heard other

718
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 1: people in even way longer marriages say that they're not

719
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:39,479
Speaker 1: connected to their partner, Like some people play different roles.

720
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 1: One's the breadwinner, and it's fun and we're going on

721
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 1: these activities and we're going out to dinner, and we're

722
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 1: going out with other couples and we travel, you can

723
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 1: really burn a lot of time with a lot of bullshit, right,

724
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 1: And I've heard people say like, we don't really sit

725
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 1: down and talk about anything like in long marriages. And

726
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 1: it's weird to realize that, but you could see how

727
00:33:58,760 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 1: it happens.

728
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's sad how that just kind of gets lost,

729
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 2: you know. And then I think people feel kind of

730
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 2: alienated or nervous to try and like flip the script

731
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 2: a little bit. They just kind of get stuck in

732
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:10,399
Speaker 2: a rut.

733
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 1: Well, because that's a dynamic and it's been set up

734
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 1: and it's a it's sort of like sex if sex

735
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 1: is always the same and you're gonna be that weirdo

736
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 1: that it's like hey, spank me, or let's hang from a swing.

737
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 1: It's like a weird thing to be doing with like

738
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:24,359
Speaker 1: a friend that you've been living with for so long

739
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:25,799
Speaker 1: that it's like, wait, what are you doing? You don't

740
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:27,879
Speaker 1: do that. It's like, wait, you eat parsley. You don't

741
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 1: eat parsley. Now you want to be spanked? Like you

742
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:34,360
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Yeah exactly, it's like one day

743
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:36,279
Speaker 1: you want to do things differently. It freaks the other

744
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 1: person out.

745
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:37,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.

746
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 1: Have you had a have you had challenges trusting in

747
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:43,839
Speaker 1: relationships since then?

748
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 2: One hundred percent. Yeah. Like when I would start dating

749
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 2: after that, I would take a really long time to

750
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 2: get to know somebody, and I would kind of like

751
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:56,919
Speaker 2: prevent myself from getting attached for like at least six

752
00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 2: months because I feel like I had a couple really

753
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 2: ships back to back that were very kind of similar,

754
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:06,879
Speaker 2: kind of like controlling narcissistic people, and I just learned

755
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,760
Speaker 2: that I need to like chill for like six months

756
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:13,160
Speaker 2: because that's the window I feel just talking with other

757
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 2: friends who've been through it, where somebody will try to

758
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 2: like get their hooks in you and get you to

759
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 2: move in and get you to be financially dependent on them,

760
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,399
Speaker 2: and then they start showing their true colors. So it's

761
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 2: definitely made me like slow down with like dating and

762
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 2: getting to know people.

763
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:30,320
Speaker 1: Because that's like the methadone. You're kind of going towards

764
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,800
Speaker 1: a similar drug, just like a lesser intense version.

765
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, people are definitely attracted to similar types of people.

766
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,920
Speaker 2: It can be a pattern. So yes, I once I

767
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 2: recognized that, I got really careful.

768
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:45,319
Speaker 1: And did you fully break the pattern or are you

769
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 1: attracted to that, but you intervene.

770
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 2: I feel like the pattern's been broken, Like there's certain

771
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:54,719
Speaker 2: I guess personality traits or things I find attractive that

772
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:56,759
Speaker 2: might be the same, But I'm with a really good

773
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,920
Speaker 2: guy now, so it's not the same kind of like

774
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 2: person trying to dominate all my time or trying to

775
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 2: control what I do, or trying to say you need

776
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,239
Speaker 2: to be here this time, things like that.

777
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:11,320
Speaker 1: And do you feel like people also have not trusted

778
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:12,240
Speaker 1: you for the same reason.

779
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 2: Probably, Yeah, I think people are afraid that I'm going

780
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:20,799
Speaker 2: to write a book about them, Oh, things like that,

781
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 2: or so that I would start dating someone and then

782
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:25,879
Speaker 2: all his friends will come out of the wood work

783
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 2: and be like, bro, she's just a gold digger, bro,

784
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 2: you know.

785
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 1: To right that, Yeah, I could tech at one hundred

786
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:35,279
Speaker 1: percent see that. And then do you feel the need

787
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 1: that you have to prove yourself to the men, like

788
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:41,319
Speaker 1: in business meetings or et cetera, to like, be like,

789
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 1: I'm not the you know, the Chrissy from Three's Company.

790
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 1: You know, Suzanne Summers went through this and she was

791
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 1: the smartest of them all. Be like, I'm not the

792
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:48,760
Speaker 1: dumb blonde character.

793
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 2: Probably, I don't really think about it too much when

794
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 2: I'm having the interactions or in the meeting, because I

795
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:56,880
Speaker 2: feel like when people meet me and talk to me,

796
00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 2: they realize kind of right away that I'm not like

797
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:02,239
Speaker 2: that high pitched girl with a pageant smile in My

798
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 2: Girl's next Door interview. You know, it's just a totally

799
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 2: different thing.

800
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:10,440
Speaker 1: Amazing. Wow. Well, I have to say that when it

801
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:13,840
Speaker 1: said you have had a diverse career and what I

802
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 1: read about you, they weren't kidding. I really thought it

803
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 1: was so interesting. I love reading about people and then

804
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:21,440
Speaker 1: meeting them, and like, now I know you, and I

805
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 1: know you more than I know people that I actually know,

806
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:27,319
Speaker 1: because I really, you know, looked into it. I guess

807
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:29,719
Speaker 1: the last question is do you what percentage do you

808
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:32,320
Speaker 1: think you've been lucky and what percentage smart?

809
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:35,799
Speaker 2: Oh? Well, you know what, I think it's kind of

810
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:39,920
Speaker 2: more smart. I've definitely had opportunities, obviously, like being able

811
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 2: to be at the Plateway Mansion led to the reality show,

812
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:45,399
Speaker 2: But I don't ever feel like things even there were

813
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:48,520
Speaker 2: handed to me real easily like maybe some I've seen

814
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:50,760
Speaker 2: other people come through there who were a lot more lucky.

815
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 2: I feel like I always had to be prepared. I

816
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:54,400
Speaker 2: always had to know what I want. I always had

817
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,399
Speaker 2: to have my vision board. You know. They always say

818
00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:00,759
Speaker 2: like success is a combination of preparation luck, but I

819
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 2: feel like maybe it's just like the Capricorn in me,

820
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:07,239
Speaker 2: But I feel like it's a lot more preparation. Like

821
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,440
Speaker 2: when you were through for stuff I want, like I'm

822
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 2: usually told no about several times before it happens.

823
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 1: And you were on it even from the beginning when

824
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 1: you were living in the house. You were like, this

825
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:17,759
Speaker 1: is something. I'm making this into something. I'm not just

826
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:20,279
Speaker 1: gonna sit on my ass and like be like you know,

827
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 1: the blonde, pretty girl like you were thinking about the

828
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 1: machinations of the situation.

829
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And it was hard to do that too, because

830
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 2: I realized after I moved in, I wasn't allowed to

831
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 2: have a job outside of the mansion. I was not

832
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 2: allowed to go out an audition. I would do it

833
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 2: a little bit, but then you know, stopped. And then

834
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 2: the reality show came along, which I was nervous about doing.

835
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:41,360
Speaker 2: I never really wanted to do a reality show or

836
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:43,799
Speaker 2: like showcase my personal life like that, but it turned

837
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 2: into a great opportunity and I was definitely always thinking

838
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 2: about it. I was always saving, like my pennies and

839
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 2: like making investments and things like that.

840
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:54,319
Speaker 1: Oh well, I guess I didn't ask that question. If

841
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 1: you guys were negotiating your own contract for that show,

842
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 1: he wasn't taking a piece of that. You had your

843
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:03,360
Speaker 1: own money, you could store away like chestnuts, right, or

844
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:05,239
Speaker 1: he was in to ted his hands in that too.

845
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:07,600
Speaker 2: Well, at first, we weren't paid for the show at

846
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 2: all for the first order of episodes, and eventually, you know,

847
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:13,839
Speaker 2: I was complaining to have secretary who was a friend

848
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 2: of mine, and she kind of got on the phone

849
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:18,360
Speaker 2: and talked to people and made sure we got paid.

850
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:19,799
Speaker 2: So we got a little bit of money for the

851
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 2: second half of season one, and then each season the

852
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:24,320
Speaker 2: show was doing so well, we would get a raise,

853
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:28,120
Speaker 2: but we weren't even under contract ourselves, like he negotiated

854
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 2: directly with HEF. They never we were considered like his property,

855
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 2: Like we were never negotiated with directly at all. We

856
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:37,359
Speaker 2: weren't allowed to have our own agents, we weren't allowed

857
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:39,839
Speaker 2: to have our own managers. And then in the last

858
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 2: season of the show, he finally realized HEF didn't have

859
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:45,920
Speaker 2: us under contract, and they're like, this is our most

860
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:47,759
Speaker 2: successful show. You have to have these girls under some

861
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 2: kind of contract.

862
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:52,360
Speaker 1: So hold on hold, because you've heard about this reality reckoning.

863
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 1: I've been talking about exploitation without compensation, so I have

864
00:39:55,560 --> 00:40:00,080
Speaker 1: to ask you about that. But like you E, they

865
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 1: didn't have a contract with you. They had a contract

866
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 1: with the leader of the cult on your girl's behalf,

867
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 1: like as his property. Mm hmmm, yeah, that's why I

868
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 1: brought up Jeffrey Epstein.

869
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:14,800
Speaker 2: It's fucked up, it's crazy. So finally, when he realized

870
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:17,799
Speaker 2: hep didn't have uson under any kind of contract, they

871
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:20,239
Speaker 2: insisted we'd be put under some kind of contract. So

872
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:23,799
Speaker 2: hef had his own production company make up contracts and

873
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 2: I was told that I have to sign this, and

874
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:28,359
Speaker 2: I was hesitanting. I was like, but doesn't that mean

875
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:30,960
Speaker 2: I'm kind of signing a contract to be in the relationship,

876
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:32,799
Speaker 2: Like it seemed a little weird to me. It seemed

877
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 2: a little sketch, And he was like, well, you need

878
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:36,880
Speaker 2: to sign it. It has to be signed today or

879
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:40,800
Speaker 2: the show's getting canceled. All this crazy shit. Kendra was

880
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:43,400
Speaker 2: like away doing a promo trip, so I don't know

881
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 2: how they got her to sign and then Bridget was

882
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:49,320
Speaker 2: in the shower and hef literally walked into her room

883
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 2: and pulled her out of the shower, dripping wet, demanding

884
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 2: her sign this contract. And she said no, I'd like

885
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:56,959
Speaker 2: to have an attorney look at it. And he said,

886
00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:58,919
Speaker 2: absolutely not. You need to sign it now or pack

887
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 2: your bags, and she signed it.

888
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:04,759
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. And what how many years in was that?

889
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 2: This was like the last season? I think it was

890
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:08,799
Speaker 2: either season four or five.

891
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:13,560
Speaker 1: So you didn't really make money off of that whole

892
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:15,319
Speaker 1: thing a little bit.

893
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:20,240
Speaker 2: We made not millions, no, not not no, not millions,

894
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 2: and we weren't allowed to pursue our own things or

895
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:24,840
Speaker 2: like take other opportunities or have our own pr or

896
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:25,600
Speaker 2: anything like that.

897
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 1: And have you ever gone to eat to be like

898
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:32,400
Speaker 1: what the fuck everybody made all this money but us?

899
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:34,960
Speaker 1: Or do you just guys all ignored it? Like I'm

900
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 1: just curious. That's insane, Like you're the biggest example of

901
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 1: what I've been talking about and I haven't talked to

902
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:40,799
Speaker 1: you about it.

903
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 2: I mean, for me, like the person more at fault,

904
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:46,400
Speaker 2: I feel as hef or even the producer of the show,

905
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 2: I feel like he felt like they were making this

906
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:52,400
Speaker 2: deal with this big celebrity who was reclusive and weird

907
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:54,880
Speaker 2: and he was a get for a reality show, and

908
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:57,640
Speaker 2: they just went along with whatever he wanted, and he

909
00:41:57,719 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 2: I'm sure established the terms. I know he said he

910
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:02,240
Speaker 2: wouldn't the show unless he had a certain producer friend

911
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:05,359
Speaker 2: of his produce it. And also, you know, we were

912
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:07,880
Speaker 2: being filmed shooting our pictorials and things like that, so

913
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 2: there was nudity and we just assumed that, oh, well,

914
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:12,720
Speaker 2: they can't show that on e it has to be blurred.

915
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 2: And we were never told that, like the uncensored footage

916
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 2: was going to be put on DVDs or aired foreign

917
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:20,239
Speaker 2: markets and things like that.

918
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:23,360
Speaker 1: It's exactly what I'm talking about. How you could shoot

919
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:27,200
Speaker 1: something you've been paid zero dollars season one twenty years later,

920
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 1: you didn't know there was going to be a Hulu

921
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 1: or a Netflix or streaming and Amazon and Dice and

922
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:40,880
Speaker 1: Slice and hey you Australia, Hey you UK, Like you

923
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 1: know this is why some people will sit here and

924
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:44,640
Speaker 1: go come on, Bethany, I mean, do you give a

925
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 1: shit about these people? You knew they signed it's what

926
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:49,319
Speaker 1: they signed up for, and I'm like, it's actually not

927
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:50,840
Speaker 1: what they signed up or they didn't know what they

928
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:53,360
Speaker 1: signed up for because it didn't exist what they signed

929
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:56,720
Speaker 1: up for, Like, is your content still there? It still exists.

930
00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:59,200
Speaker 1: I can go watch today. I could go watch you right.

931
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:05,880
Speaker 2: On streaming services. People even show like pirateed uncensored versions

932
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:08,759
Speaker 2: on YouTube and YouTube won't take it down. It's just

933
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:09,839
Speaker 2: like it's ridiculous.

934
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:15,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, yeah, I think you're being very kind only

935
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:20,080
Speaker 1: holding half responsible, but that there is an estate there.

936
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:22,719
Speaker 1: You probably are owed money. That's insane. You signed your

937
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 1: life away. But that's what I'm talking about. So, yeah,

938
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:27,279
Speaker 1: did a young girl who wanted to be in the

939
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 1: mix famous an opportunity? Of course she took it. Does

940
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 1: she know what the hell she's signing? Per se? Does

941
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:35,440
Speaker 1: she can she afford a lawyer? This is what I'm

942
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 1: talking about, Like it sounds good later, but what the

943
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:41,919
Speaker 1: hell did we know about what lawyer? Look at this? Yeah? Sure,

944
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 1: I guess it looks fine. It was a new world,

945
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 1: yeah for sure. Yeah, very interesting. Wow, So I guess

946
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:49,320
Speaker 1: my question is what do you think of the reality

947
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:50,440
Speaker 1: reckoning or what you've read of it.

948
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:54,520
Speaker 2: I think there should definitely be some kind of regulations

949
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:56,319
Speaker 2: like the things that can relate to for sure, Like

950
00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:59,640
Speaker 2: people should know exactly in their contract what they're signing,

951
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:01,759
Speaker 2: Like if nudity gets caught on camera, is it going

952
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 2: to be used, where is it going to be used?

953
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:05,719
Speaker 2: Things like that. I mean, I'm not sure. I'm not

954
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 2: an expert. I don't know what all the regulation should

955
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:10,120
Speaker 2: be or what the best things are, but I think

956
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:13,319
Speaker 2: it's definitely worth looking into because people, like you said,

957
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 2: they get on camera and sign their life away and

958
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:18,400
Speaker 2: the footage is just used for whatever. And luckily, I

959
00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 2: think the audience is getting a little more media literate

960
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:22,760
Speaker 2: now where they know not everything they see on TV

961
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:24,880
Speaker 2: is true, but not all the time. A lot of

962
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:27,200
Speaker 2: people tell me, have you seen this Love Is Blind show?

963
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:28,880
Speaker 2: And can you believe they did that? And I'm like,

964
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 2: I can't watch that stuff because I know nothing is real.

965
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 2: Like they will twist your words and if you don't

966
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:38,760
Speaker 2: say what they want you to say in the confessional interview,

967
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 2: they'll frank invite it or they'll make it like you

968
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 2: said it. Or we even had instances on Girls next

969
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:47,799
Speaker 2: Door where editors were called in to come in and

970
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:49,840
Speaker 2: like do an impression of one of the characters, or

971
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:52,000
Speaker 2: do an impression of one of the guest stars or

972
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 2: something if they didn't get what they wanted said, so

973
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:55,840
Speaker 2: you're really just a puppet.

974
00:44:56,239 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's unbelievable and most people really don't get it. Wow. Well,

975
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:02,919
Speaker 1: I really appreciate you coming on here. It's so nice

976
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 1: to meet you, and I appreciate the conversation.

977
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:06,760
Speaker 2: Of course me too. It's fun.

978
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:15,480
Speaker 1: So Holly Madison is beautiful, she is successful, she is smart.

979
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:20,600
Speaker 1: She certainly has been underestimated. And I thought that was

980
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:22,960
Speaker 1: really interesting. I can't even tell you reading about her

981
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 1: was just wild. Like, you know, it's the girl who

982
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 1: was on the Playboy Mansion show. Okay, Like we don't

983
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:30,279
Speaker 1: think about what that actually entailed and what it was

984
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:32,919
Speaker 1: like to be in a relationship with Hugh Hefner. And yes,

985
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:35,840
Speaker 1: you know, I was gonna say there are no victims,

986
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 1: but like young dough Eide girls taking opportunities. I lived

987
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:43,399
Speaker 1: in LA you know I would have taken the opportunity too.

988
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:45,480
Speaker 1: I'm just telling you that I get it. I'm not

989
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:47,400
Speaker 1: going to judge whatsoever, and I'm sure a lot of

990
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:51,240
Speaker 1: people do. But what has she turned this into podcasts

991
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 1: and crime shows and books and beautiful children and marriages

992
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 1: and you know, she's a class act, so I thought

993
00:45:58,680 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 1: that was really interesting.

994
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:00,359
Speaker 2: Loved her.

995
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 1: I thought she was great, I thought it was interesting

996
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 1: and wow, really I was excited. But that's why I

997
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 1: love the show.

998
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:08,759
Speaker 2: I get to.

999
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 1: Really dig into who someone is that I would never

1000
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 1: have gotten to speak to. So I'm grateful for you

1001
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:16,880
Speaker 1: guys for making that happen, like, really making that possible,

1002
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 1: because without listening and being interested, we wouldn't be talking

1003
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 1: to that woman who definitely sounds really really interesting. Loved

1004
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:24,000
Speaker 1: Halley Madison