Speaker 1: Ben Higgins and Ashley.
Speaker 2: I bring you infamous.
Speaker 1: Sometimes roses are red flags.
Speaker 3: Welcome to almost Famous. It is another episode of Infamous.
Speaker 3: We want to step back to season thirteen of the
Speaker 3: Bachelorette when Rachel Lindsay was the Bachelorette, and you might
Speaker 3: remember our guest, the Bachelor that never was, the Bachelor
Speaker 3: that got away. In my opinion, he was known for
Speaker 3: his little gap tooth smile and the little silver flex
Speaker 3: in his hair. It is Peter Craus. Peter, welcome to
Speaker 3: the podcast.
Speaker 1: Thank you very much. Prian, more gret now than ever,
Speaker 1: and the gap toooths are still there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're not sal You're like you are. You're actually
Speaker 3: the definition salt and pepper.
Speaker 1: Now i'd say, oh yeah, I'd say I'm more salt
Speaker 1: than pepper at this point.
Speaker 2: When did you start doing gray eighteen?
Speaker 1: I was eighteen years old when I saw my first
Speaker 1: gray hairs.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like I was around that age.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this first time I've seen you with some gray
Speaker 1: and your beard. Oh dude, I'm getting welcome to the party.
Speaker 3: Jared's beard is the first to go too. I don't
Speaker 3: know what it is. He's so great there, Peter, we
Speaker 3: are so excited to talk to you. And I have
Speaker 3: to just air this before when you started dating your girlfriend, Hannah,
Speaker 3: Is that how you say your name Hannah?
Speaker 1: Hannah? Oh, it is a traditional old plunciation, but yeah,
Speaker 1: spelled Ana.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 3: So I met her ten years ago to this month,
Speaker 3: and we started following each other on Instagram.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I was at an event. It was a very small,
Speaker 3: like girls only sort of.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 3: I think it was the premiere of the Bachelorette. It
Speaker 3: was like a viewing party for it at the W
Speaker 3: Hotel in Fort Lauderdale. And she and I were talking
Speaker 3: sports broadcasting because we had both gone to school for
Speaker 3: that and she was, you know, on TV for it. Yeah,
Speaker 3: she was like really making her way down there and
Speaker 3: uh yeah. So and I've been following her ever since,
Speaker 3: like she just comes up with my feed. Still I
Speaker 3: still like have always like kind of engaged. It had
Speaker 3: been for some reason, just interested. And then all of
Speaker 3: a sudden, I saw you two start posting about each other.
Speaker 3: I was like, what in the small world is this
Speaker 3: you met on Riya Riyah Raya right right now?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Well and she knows, I mean she's told me
Speaker 1: the same story. I'm impressed. You remember the exact details
Speaker 1: of it. That's impressive.
Speaker 3: Oh she has, Oh my god.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And then really then you actually met her at
Speaker 1: one point too. You probably don't even know. That's because
Speaker 1: I didn't know it. We were in Vegas. The last
Speaker 1: time I saw you was in Vegas, like eight something
Speaker 1: like that.
Speaker 2: I do the same thing.
Speaker 3: Twenty eighteen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Sorr, yeah, twenty eighteen. Yea, twenty eighteen.
Speaker 2: I was trying to think back. I was like, goodness,
Speaker 2: this is we're now were really going to make me
Speaker 2: feel awkward.
Speaker 1: Fast forward from then eight or ten years. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1: So she was there on a bachherette party and we
Speaker 1: were at a pool. We had just gotten done surfing
Speaker 1: at the pool, and she and her friends apparently walked
Speaker 1: up to us and introduced themselves and chatted with us
Speaker 1: for a little bit, And so I had met her.
Speaker 1: I don't remember this interaction mattered for they just said
Speaker 1: hi and that was the end of that. Moved on
Speaker 1: with their lives plan.
Speaker 2: At Hollywood twenty eighteen.
Speaker 1: I know, Wow, good memory.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you didn't remember this, so I'm not like
Speaker 2: in trouble or not remembering this interaction. No, And you've
Speaker 2: been together for how long.
Speaker 1: Now, it'll be a year next month.
Speaker 2: Goodness, is this the first major relationship since the show,
Speaker 2: like major relationship.
Speaker 1: First one that I'm sharing publicly, I would say.
Speaker 2: Which means like you have some confidence in her.
Speaker 1: Right, Oh, yeah, We'll be engaged by the end of
Speaker 1: the year. I'll married next year, kids by the end
Speaker 1: of next year, I would guess. Yeah, that's so cute.
Speaker 2: No, I love it.
Speaker 3: I'm not surprised by this at all. My sister I
Speaker 3: told her that I was interviewing you today and she
Speaker 3: was like, he deleted all the pictures on his Instagram
Speaker 3: from his life before he met Hannah. You have to
Speaker 3: talk to him about that.
Speaker 1: Well. That started with, so, I have a new business
Speaker 1: entra going on, and I'd gotten off on Instagram at
Speaker 1: one point. I just was sick of dealing with it
Speaker 1: and the new business venture. I wanted to announce with
Speaker 1: like just a clean slate and just have everything be
Speaker 1: pertaining to that. And then she announced our relationship on
Speaker 1: Instagram and I just felt bad that she was doing
Speaker 1: it and I wasn't. So I decided to just announce
Speaker 1: my return to Instagram, I guess early. And so now
Speaker 1: it's just pretty much she and I is my entire Instagram.
Speaker 2: There was no life before he Let's be honest.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what's so romantic about it.
Speaker 1: And that's why I said everything starts with this, Like
Speaker 1: the whole moment starts now in.
Speaker 2: The attitude of keeping things healthy, let's start talking about
Speaker 2: the Bachelorette.
Speaker 1: Also, nothing healthier than that now.
Speaker 3: Well, she was obviously a big Bachelor fan, having met
Speaker 3: us all in individually before.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, she, like many girls in this country, watched
Speaker 1: I'm sure her fair amount growing up. Yeah, and she
Speaker 1: watched my season, Ben, she watched her season, Ashley, she
Speaker 1: watched you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a level to that. My wife has never
Speaker 2: seen it. There's moments, very few where I'm like, ah,
Speaker 2: it'd be fun to talk about some of this with her.
Speaker 2: That's not exactly like a great thing for you know,
Speaker 2: your spouse to have watched, But there are some moments
Speaker 2: where I'm like, this could be a fun or maybe
Speaker 2: we could sit down and watch it together, but just
Speaker 2: not type her type of thing.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 2: And as a result, it's really not a part of
Speaker 2: our relationship. Ever, we never talked about it, which I
Speaker 2: also like, there's benefits to that too.
Speaker 1: She does still watch Golden Basher, I'll tell you that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh Golden Yeah, big.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Georgia, I haven't watched any of it, but she's
Speaker 1: still a fan.
Speaker 2: Well, we're gonna dive in. The infamous episodes are all
Speaker 2: about kind of uncovering what is or what was behind
Speaker 2: the scenes that maybe we didn't see, that maybe it
Speaker 2: was portrayed in a way that it really didn't happen,
Speaker 2: or maybe it did, and you just bring light to
Speaker 2: a situation and saying, yeah, this is exactly how I
Speaker 2: went down when I watched it back it was this
Speaker 2: but before we die, been to your time on the
Speaker 2: Bachelor app which is always fun. We have had some
Speaker 2: great interviews. There was one other public relationship that we
Speaker 2: have to get cleared up that our fans have written
Speaker 2: in and asked about. The NICKI I think her name
Speaker 2: is what Nicky or Bella?
Speaker 1: Nicky Bella?
Speaker 2: Yeah, was that ever really TV thing?
Speaker 1: No, they reached out to me through They may have
Speaker 1: even been amy, to be honest, I feel like our producer. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it was like connections and connections. I don't
Speaker 1: remember what it was, but they said there's a show
Speaker 1: called Toto Bella's They would love for you to come
Speaker 1: on and go on a date with Nikki, would you
Speaker 1: be up for And I said, hell yeah, Like she's gorgeous,
Speaker 1: she's hard working, and she's intelligent. Like this is absolutely
Speaker 1: someone i'd go on a date with, even outside of
Speaker 1: the show. So why not. We went on one date, date
Speaker 1: went well. A week or two later, I sent her
Speaker 1: flowers and this special candy that she had talked about
Speaker 1: during our date, and we chatted back forth a little bit,
Speaker 1: but nothing ever came of it. I guess that was
Speaker 1: the end of that. Literally nothing more than that, which
Speaker 1: I was more exciting for you guys, But that was.
Speaker 2: Not kind of exciting. I mean, you got dumped.
Speaker 3: That's romantic, I think.
Speaker 2: I say it's romantic. You say he is tough.
Speaker 1: It was great, Like it didn't suck by any means.
Speaker 1: It's a great date. It was fun. I guess a
Speaker 1: week or two of interaction and that was it.
Speaker 3: Well we can dive into that, but we have other
Speaker 3: things to talk about, like you know, Rachel Lindsay, all right,
Speaker 3: so your big thing on the show was that you
Speaker 3: weren't going to propose at the end, especially We're like,
Speaker 3: I'm not going to propose to you, Rachel, like, I
Speaker 3: would love to be with you, but this is just ridiculous.
Speaker 3: We've known each other.
Speaker 2: For eight weeks.
Speaker 3: Was it before the show or during the show that
Speaker 3: you decided that a proposal at the end of it
Speaker 3: wasn't going to be for you.
Speaker 1: The last conversation I have with friends before I went
Speaker 1: on the show was I'd see you guys in two weeks.
Speaker 1: The thought of proposal was and even ever in my
Speaker 1: mind going onto the show, I looked at it as
Speaker 1: this is a great fun, exciting and different, unique opportunity
Speaker 1: that very few people get, and I'm single, and I
Speaker 1: could potentially find love in the process. Hell yeah, let's
Speaker 1: do it. Like it was just a fun experience, and
Speaker 1: when it started to get serious, like oh, this is
Speaker 1: actually potentially going to like the long haul, engagement became
Speaker 1: more of a conversation as like, Okay, this needs to
Speaker 1: be taken more seriously. And she and I started having
Speaker 1: conversations pretty early on about like this does and an engagement,
Speaker 1: But I don't want to think that was to like
Speaker 1: at least a third of the way through it, maybe
Speaker 1: half of the way through it. And as much as
Speaker 1: I was falling for her. In those moments, I knew
Speaker 1: that it wasn't enough real life experience to say, Okay,
Speaker 1: I can definitively commit the rest of my life to
Speaker 1: this person. It seemed like on my side of things
Speaker 1: like that just kind of made sense. If I'm going
Speaker 1: to be with someone for the rest of my life,
Speaker 1: I want to know what they're like in more scenarios
Speaker 1: in real life. And so we started having more and
Speaker 1: more conversations about it, and then it wasn't until I
Speaker 1: think the last few weeks of the show that I
Speaker 1: was like, this is just not going to end in
Speaker 1: engagement for me. It's not that it wasn't ever an option,
Speaker 1: it's just now I really know at this point, only
Speaker 1: having a couple weeks left, like the next date after
Speaker 1: our biggest conversation about it was the engagement ceremony. Like Jesus,
Speaker 1: we're just having the biggest conversation about it now, and
Speaker 1: I'm supposed to get engaged to you next. This is
Speaker 1: this is not a legitimate possibility for me at this time.
Speaker 2: Let's sit in this moment then for a second. I'm sure,
Speaker 2: knowing you, you were not easy to be produced, which
Speaker 2: I think is a credit to you. I actually say
Speaker 2: that in a complimentary way. I think both sides. Doesn't
Speaker 2: say that about me. I definitely don't say that about Ashley.
Speaker 2: She is so easy to get produced. But I think
Speaker 2: there's good to both. Like one is a trusting person
Speaker 2: like Ashley who says, hey, like I believe you have
Speaker 2: my best interests in mind, I don't want to believe
Speaker 2: you don't, And as a result, I am going to
Speaker 2: follow you your lead and kind of do whatever you
Speaker 2: ask of me. And as a result, you have an Ashley,
Speaker 2: which is an amazing human. I love her dearly, but
Speaker 2: we also have you, I think, on the other side,
Speaker 2: who says I'm not going to trust anything you say
Speaker 2: to me. There is nothing you could input wisdom into
Speaker 2: me at this time that I would follow, And as
Speaker 2: a result, I think I know best which is good
Speaker 2: and bad, and this is how I'm going to communicate it.
Speaker 2: So if you can give the fans kind of underneath
Speaker 2: the hood of in those moments leading up to that conversation,
Speaker 2: I'm sure you told somebody, hey, I'm not going to
Speaker 2: get engaged at the end of this, and they probably
Speaker 2: panicked or maybe they didn't, but explain it to us.
Speaker 1: Yeah, where should I start. First place I start was
Speaker 1: early early on in the show, like our very first week,
Speaker 1: I want to say. I was having conversations pretty regularly
Speaker 1: with producers, as you guys know you would do throughout
Speaker 1: the entirety of the show, and during just like a
Speaker 1: normal conversation with one of them I won't say who
Speaker 1: it was, I brought up some pretty important and personal
Speaker 1: stuff about my family and had all the trust in
Speaker 1: the world of these people. I thought, Okay, this is
Speaker 1: a good person. We can communicate and my thoughts are
Speaker 1: safe with this person. And then like two three days later,
Speaker 1: we were in one of the confessionals whatever we call it,
Speaker 1: and while on camera, she brought it up and wanted
Speaker 1: to get an answer relating to it, or just like
Speaker 1: a sound bite relating to it, and I just paused
Speaker 1: for a second, was like, oh, this is not what
Speaker 1: I thought it was. This is a scheme to get
Speaker 1: me to say something that can be used for the
Speaker 1: betterment of those behind the camera. And that's when the
Speaker 1: whole script flipped for me. It was like, Okay, this
Speaker 1: is now serious. I have to be intentional about what
Speaker 1: I say and do. I can still try very best
Speaker 1: to be myself in this situation. But at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, they have a product that they're trying
Speaker 1: to produce, and that product is built off of a
Speaker 1: certain scenario or result that they choose to have, and
Speaker 1: I am nothing but a pawn in that scheme. So
Speaker 1: be myself but be guarded. That's what it kind of
Speaker 1: came down to. And I found that more and more
Speaker 1: throughout time.
Speaker 3: Did you call that producer out in the moment or
Speaker 3: do you just keep that internal?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: No, no need to, Like, why show your cards? If
Speaker 1: I know what they're doing, They're they're just going to
Speaker 1: find other ways to manipulate played dumb when you have
Speaker 1: to or else they just try to become smarter in
Speaker 1: that situation. So let them. Let them do what they
Speaker 1: had to do. And I just went about my way
Speaker 1: trying to engage my relationship more and more with Rachel
Speaker 1: without giving the soundbites that they needed for the show
Speaker 1: to carry on.
Speaker 2: It's an exhausting and being in it, that's it. I mean,
Speaker 2: I've been in that mindset on the show before. It's
Speaker 2: a really tiring mindset because your whole life is being
Speaker 2: filmed and you're always thinking, like if I say this
Speaker 2: one sentence, it could be used against me, and so
Speaker 2: I'm always on guard. It makes it a lot less fun.
Speaker 2: I always say, if I had to do the show again,
Speaker 2: I'd have more fun. I had very little fun during
Speaker 2: the experience on both seasons because I was always so guarded.
Speaker 2: Are you saying then, that, as you went into this
Speaker 2: huge conversation with Rachel about where your relationship was going
Speaker 2: to go, engagement or no engagement, dating, not dating, did
Speaker 2: any producer have any idea that you were about to
Speaker 2: say what you said?
Speaker 1: Well, I mean there's all sorts of different tactics used
Speaker 1: throughout to get a result. And another producer, again I
Speaker 1: won't say a name, but a very high up producer
Speaker 1: in the show multiple times told me that I was
Speaker 1: in love, Like you're in love, You're in love, Just
Speaker 1: admit that you're in love, Peter, You're in love. Come
Speaker 1: on to say it, like trying so hard to just
Speaker 1: coax me into saying something that at that time I
Speaker 1: didn't yet believe. And it's like, if you just want
Speaker 1: that result, what's the point. I'm not going to say it.
Speaker 1: So when time's right, I'll say it. And then once
Speaker 1: it finally did come out of my mouth, because I
Speaker 1: actually started to feel it for her. The script basically
Speaker 1: changed on their side of things. They must have decided
Speaker 1: at that point, like, oh, we need to actually stick
Speaker 1: with this different scenario. So now we're going to start
Speaker 1: to tell you say, you know, stick to your guns.
Speaker 1: You don't have to get engaged yet. So then also
Speaker 1: I started to hear those echoes through the chambers of
Speaker 1: just stick to your guns. You don't have to get
Speaker 1: engaged if you're not ready for it yet, Like you're
Speaker 1: being true to yourself, be true to yourself. It was
Speaker 1: the most manipulative experience on that side of things, and
Speaker 1: that all was fine. I kind of got used to
Speaker 1: what that was and was able to just internalize it
Speaker 1: all myself. But then the hardest part was they had
Speaker 1: a therapist on staff who was almost parroting what their
Speaker 1: messages were. So that's where I actually found the most
Speaker 1: discomfort in the whole thing. Was a person that I
Speaker 1: was coming to for like a safe space started to
Speaker 1: become just another part of the process.
Speaker 2: It feels a little Truman.
Speaker 1: She oh, yeah, very much so, and she started getting
Speaker 1: me like insights how Rachel was feeling. I'm like, you
Speaker 1: can't do that. That doesn't seem appropriate. I thought this
Speaker 1: was like a safe space. What are you giving to
Speaker 1: those that I've said? So overall, the whole thing was
Speaker 1: pretty uh, for lack of a better term, growth in that way.
Speaker 1: But all that aside, like the situation with Rachel and
Speaker 1: the relationship I was developing with Rachel was always a
Speaker 1: really great experience, Like she and I had a lot
Speaker 1: of connection, a lot of fun together, just yet overall
Speaker 1: enjoyment of each other's company. It was very easy to
Speaker 1: be with her. It wasn't until like the end of
Speaker 1: the show really started to be in the focal point
Speaker 1: of like, Okay, this is this is actually happening, Like
Speaker 1: we're actually moving into marriage is the next step, Engagement
Speaker 1: is the next step. Even upon meeting the family, it
Speaker 1: all still so seemed so light and fun for the
Speaker 1: most part. But then I was like, Okay, yeah, you're
Speaker 1: getting engaged in like four or five days, I want
Speaker 1: to say, at that point a week.
Speaker 3: Yeah, people like remember this moment, the moment that you
Speaker 3: and Rachel had your big argument at the end, because
Speaker 3: from what we saw, it really seemed like you were
Speaker 3: the one that she wanted. But at the same time,
Speaker 3: she seemed to be putting again. The way that they
Speaker 3: edited it made it seem like she apparently wanted the
Speaker 3: engagement more than true love, and you even said, Okay, fine,
Speaker 3: go have a mediocre life. When you look back at
Speaker 3: this moment, what's your interpretation of it all? What really
Speaker 3: happened and how was it different than what we saw.
Speaker 1: I think the entire show needs to be put in
Speaker 1: context first, and that is it is not a real
Speaker 1: life situation to start, so to expect real life responses
Speaker 1: is impossible. The way that we handle ourselves in the situation,
Speaker 1: I think was the best we could do in the
Speaker 1: moment that we were in. The emotions were high. We
Speaker 1: were isolated with only connection to people within the show.
Speaker 1: We had no family to really draw upon, our friends
Speaker 1: to draw upon. There was a lot of stress. She
Speaker 1: was the first ever black bachelorett. The amount of stress
Speaker 1: alone from that, I can't imagine how challenging the entire
Speaker 1: situation was. Then, to think that this could end without
Speaker 1: an engagement, where the show is so dependent on the
Speaker 1: engagement being the end result, I can't imagine how much
Speaker 1: stress it felt. So I'm sure it was extremely challenging
Speaker 1: for her. For myself, it was. I didn't want to
Speaker 1: hurt her. I genuinely wanted to see where the rate
Speaker 1: or the relationship went, and seeing her as heartbroken as
Speaker 1: she seemed at the time was extremely challenging. So I
Speaker 1: also wanted to make her happy, and so at the
Speaker 1: very end I even said like fine, like let's just
Speaker 1: let's get engaged, Like, if that's what you need, I'll
Speaker 1: do it. That was like the final fifteen minutes or
Speaker 1: so of the conversation, I want to say, and then
Speaker 1: she always said no, Like that just felt like it
Speaker 1: was like a secondhand thought at that point, and it
Speaker 1: kind of ruined the whole situation, which obviously I wouldn't
Speaker 1: want to get engaged in that I guess scenario either. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but this is tough for me to talk about right now.
Speaker 1: I haven't talked about this in a very long time.
Speaker 1: I guess. I'm so sorry. No, that's all right, it's
Speaker 1: probably good to bring it up. The situation itself was
Speaker 1: just hard like that. I don't think there's any right
Speaker 1: or wrong to it. What I said in that moment
Speaker 1: was very hurtful and inappropriate, and I wish I hadn't
Speaker 1: said it, but I did. So I have to own it,
Speaker 1: like I did say those words, which I won't even
Speaker 1: repeat because I think they're really gross, and I tried
Speaker 1: to apologize for it, but that only means so much
Speaker 1: when it's in front of millions of people and you're
Speaker 1: already hurt and feeling betrayed. I'm sure by someone who
Speaker 1: could say that to you.
Speaker 2: Let me dive in here, because for clarity's sake, you
Speaker 2: can go any the direction. When you said those words,
Speaker 2: I'm assuming you're referencing a statement about what life could
Speaker 2: look like afterwards. Were you meaning that directly towards Brian
Speaker 2: or just in general, like, hey, you and I could
Speaker 2: have something great and the other option here. I don't
Speaker 2: know if it's going to go the way you want
Speaker 2: it to.
Speaker 1: I think I felt that I knew in that moment
Speaker 1: that I could provide a very healthy, happier relationship with
Speaker 1: this person. And whether that was true or not, I
Speaker 1: can't tell you, but in that moment, it's what I felt,
Speaker 1: and the relationship that I had built with her to
Speaker 1: that point seemed like it would be a lot of
Speaker 1: fun to be in after that time, and I knew
Speaker 1: Brian for just what I knew of him within that show,
Speaker 1: and during that time I knew he wasn't a person
Speaker 1: that I enjoyed spending time with. Personally. There's nothing against him,
Speaker 1: just he wasn't the type of guy I wanted to
Speaker 1: hang out with. So I just said exactly I was
Speaker 1: feeling in that moment, which was, I think you're going
Speaker 1: to be in a very different life with this person
Speaker 1: than you will be with me. And if that means mediocre,
Speaker 1: then that means mediocre to me in that moment. Probably
Speaker 1: not the choice words I would use now, but I
Speaker 1: did at that time.
Speaker 3: This is an awkward question, and I'm so sorry that
Speaker 3: I must ask it, But when they announced that they
Speaker 3: were getting divorced, did part of you think I knew
Speaker 3: that one wasn't going to last.
Speaker 1: No, actually the exact opposite. I was surprised, but I
Speaker 1: figured if they were able to make it through all
Speaker 1: that hardship that they experienced after the show, because it
Speaker 1: seemed like so many people turned on them and there
Speaker 1: was so much dramatization of the downfall the relationship prior
Speaker 1: to it, even not you succeeding, I figured, if they
Speaker 1: can make through that, they can make it through anything.
Speaker 1: So I was very surprised when I saw that happen,
Speaker 1: and I was very sad by the fact that so
Speaker 1: many people were championing the fact that it did happen.
Speaker 1: I think it was disgusting. I think people have enough
Speaker 1: challenge in life that they don't need everybody else jumping
Speaker 1: on them when they falter, and so that was sad
Speaker 1: to see.
Speaker 2: It's been eight years. As you said, I remember the conversation,
Speaker 2: I remember the moment. I remember a lot of that season,
Speaker 2: and I remember this being one of the moments that
Speaker 2: you feel as a viewer, like you feel it. I
Speaker 2: think it's one of the last moments. There's a bit few,
Speaker 2: but one of the last moments where I remember sitting
Speaker 2: on the couch being like, I am in this conversation
Speaker 2: with them on the couch and I'm feeling both directions
Speaker 2: remind us the audience's response, because I think twenty twenty,
Speaker 2: you know, hindsight is us saying this your mindset made sense,
Speaker 2: like how were you going to get engaged? And if
Speaker 2: you weren't okay with that, but you still in a
Speaker 2: day like that makes sense for the show in the format.
Speaker 2: But I'm sure viewership wanted an engagement, and I'm sure
Speaker 2: the responses were probably not outrageously supportive towards you, or
Speaker 2: maybe they were. I don't remember.
Speaker 1: I think we create our own uh. I don't know
Speaker 1: if it's an echo chamber, but you know, it's my
Speaker 1: social media. No one else sees it but me, So
Speaker 1: I see all the responses that are on it, and
Speaker 1: even on the show, producers would say, don't look at
Speaker 1: the good or the bad. Neither one of them is beneficial.
Speaker 1: And it's hard not to when you're getting blown up
Speaker 1: by thousands of comments and likes and things like that.
Speaker 1: And it's also cool to see. I mean for anybody,
Speaker 1: I think if all of a sudden you gained one
Speaker 1: hundred thousand followers, you'd be very curious what is happening
Speaker 1: in the situation? Who are these people? What do they want?
Speaker 1: And so I saw all the good, and I saw
Speaker 1: all the bad and all the negative comments, and I
Speaker 1: would say it was hindsight twenty twenty, realizing that it
Speaker 1: was a lot more good than bad. But the bad
Speaker 1: voices seemed to ring a lot louder, and so a
Speaker 1: lot of people that were saying negative comments were much
Speaker 1: more adamant in getting their point across. It was read
Speaker 1: it became the worst place in human creation in my opinion,
Speaker 1: people that just like all of a sudden, I would
Speaker 1: get an influx of negativity and I'm like, where's this
Speaker 1: coming from? And then someone would drop comment like Peter,
Speaker 1: you're getting blown apart and read it, and so I'd
Speaker 1: open up Reddit and sure there was this story about
Speaker 1: my life that I had no clue about that was
Speaker 1: going off, and everybody was just designing it to turn
Speaker 1: that into this like it was like a wave of
Speaker 1: hatred would come on my page and as soon as
Speaker 1: it came on, it would be gone. And it's just
Speaker 1: this wave back and forth, back and forth for like
Speaker 1: four or five years. And so it all started with
Speaker 1: oh my god. I mean, you know, at some point,
Speaker 1: like halfway or two thirds of the way through the
Speaker 1: show itself, when I started to realize like, oh, this
Speaker 1: is going to be a roller coaster, like people are
Speaker 1: going to come in and hate you for anything, and
Speaker 1: that was all find and good. I eventually started to
Speaker 1: find a way to just kind of move past it
Speaker 1: or ignore it. But then I think when it really
Speaker 1: got to like a point where I just didn't want
Speaker 1: to deal with anymore, was when it started affecting my business,
Speaker 1: Like people started commenting and leaving one stars and things
Speaker 1: on my business and yeah, it's like, what is the
Speaker 1: point of this. This is based off of the show
Speaker 1: that has no place in reality, and you're affecting my
Speaker 1: real life now, Like it was an experience for me.
Speaker 1: It was a fun experience for me. I know I
Speaker 1: didn't end in the way that many people wanted to,
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, everybody on here
Speaker 1: is just a human trying to figure out their own
Speaker 1: For you to come and attack someone because they didn't
Speaker 1: do it in the way that you did, you would
Speaker 1: never do that in real life, why are you doing
Speaker 1: it here? So eventually I just turned it off. That
Speaker 1: was it.
Speaker 3: Well, So you mentioned that you've gotten comments on social
Speaker 3: media ever four to five years after, and that is
Speaker 3: because Peter, you stuck with people. People wanted you to
Speaker 3: be the lead more than I think of anybody of
Speaker 3: anybody that never became the lead. Like that's why I
Speaker 3: said at the beginning of the show, like you were
Speaker 3: the bachelor that just never was. You were the one
Speaker 3: that caught away from the franchise. We know, we know
Speaker 3: that they wanted you to be the lead, but it
Speaker 3: was your decision not to be And I know that
Speaker 3: some people say this. Lots of people like to be like, oh,
Speaker 3: you know, God asked didn't want to do it, But
Speaker 3: I never really believe those people. I do believe you.
Speaker 1: All the conversations about it started while I was still
Speaker 1: on the show in therapy. The therapist was the first
Speaker 1: one who ever brought it up. So as we were
Speaker 1: getting to the final couple weeks of the show, the
Speaker 1: therapist on the show is the one who said, would
Speaker 1: you think about being the Bachelor? And is this really
Speaker 1: happening right now? Like, is this a conversation you're bringing
Speaker 1: up in this situation. No, I guess I hadn't thought
Speaker 1: about it, but something i'd have to think about should
Speaker 1: this not work out. And then in our overnight Rachel
Speaker 1: and I, she brought it up and I just had
Speaker 1: this conversation with a therapist was like, is this like
Speaker 1: a running thing? So I I don't know. I was
Speaker 1: just like, I guess I'd have to think about it
Speaker 1: if it came to be, and jokingly I was like,
Speaker 1: they'd have paid me a lot of money part of
Speaker 1: my language. But then it was right after it, so
Speaker 1: we were in real Hot Spain when everything ended and
Speaker 1: I was stuck there for a few days while they,
Speaker 1: like Brian and Rachel went on like their honeymoon date basically,
Speaker 1: and the producers approached me there in that space within
Speaker 1: forty eight hours twenty four hours, I don't even know what.
Speaker 1: It was at a coffee shop and they like, okay,
Speaker 1: would you think about being the Bachelor? I'm like, what,
Speaker 1: I just spent twelve hours laying on a floor crying
Speaker 1: with my lead producer, Megan as she played the same
Speaker 1: song thirty six times, and like you're asking me this now,
Speaker 1: Like I don't know. Guys like, okay, let's just let's
Speaker 1: sit on it, think about it. We'll see you when
Speaker 1: you get back to the States. And then it started
Speaker 1: pretty quickly when I got back to the States, like
Speaker 1: the I don't know what you call it, the courting
Speaker 1: of me to be bachelor. It was flying me first
Speaker 1: to Good Morning America in New York. I took a
Speaker 1: red eye out there, and that was I don't know,
Speaker 1: like the day after the final airing of the show,
Speaker 1: and they kind of walked me around town with another
Speaker 1: one of the lead producers and just said like would
Speaker 1: you do this? We think you'd be perfect for it.
Speaker 1: They were like, take me out to night's lunch, they
Speaker 1: bought me a nice watch, like it was just a
Speaker 1: very interesting experience and obviously like courting me. And then
Speaker 1: it was flying out to Mike Flie's house out in
Speaker 1: Malibu and sitting down there and having a longer, deeper
Speaker 1: conversation about it, and then upon conversations like, Okay, I
Speaker 1: can see how much this can affect someone's life. If
Speaker 1: I'm really going to do this, it's really got to
Speaker 1: be worth it financially, because they could ruin my life, Like,
Speaker 1: so I'd have to start from square one if this
Speaker 1: doesn't go well. I don't have money, Like I gave
Speaker 1: up a lot of what I was doing to go
Speaker 1: on this show. And then ever since I had to
Speaker 1: kind of like divot, and so I made a request
Speaker 1: and it was later agreed upon, and then there was
Speaker 1: more negotiations about what I would hope to have done
Speaker 1: on the show to like benefit me and my relationships,
Speaker 1: and those were eventually all agreed upon, and then we
Speaker 1: went to announce the me becoming the bachelor, I guess
Speaker 1: on the finale of Paradise, And so I was sitting
Speaker 1: in the trailer, they were pressing my suit and it
Speaker 1: kept being like, Okay, the suit's not ready yet. Okay,
Speaker 1: suit's not ready yet. And then it was okay, we're
Speaker 1: just not going to do it now. Let's do it
Speaker 1: tomorrow on Ellen or something like that, or Jimmy Kimmel,
Speaker 1: whatever it was first and I was like, okay, well,
Speaker 1: let's do it the next day on Jimmy Kile. And
Speaker 1: then it was okay, let's fly back out to Good
Speaker 1: Morning America and do it there. And at that point
Speaker 1: the contract still wasn't fully signed, and I was sitting
Speaker 1: in the airport to go to Good Morning America. The
Speaker 1: contract was finally signed, and the other producer who's again
Speaker 1: name I won't mention, was sitting with me, and as
Speaker 1: the flight was literally boarding, she turns me and she says, Okay,
Speaker 1: we're gonna go back to the hotel. It's not going
Speaker 1: to happen this time, like we're not going to announce
Speaker 1: you just yet. And so we went back to the
Speaker 1: hotel and then one of the other like top producers
Speaker 1: comes in and says, you know, we're gonna send you
Speaker 1: home for the weekend. It was what is that at
Speaker 1: that point Labor Day, right? Is that our Memorial Day? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: one of those. We'll send you home for the holiday weekend.
Speaker 1: Think on it. And then right before they left the room,
Speaker 1: like do you want to do this? I said, straight
Speaker 1: to his face, No, but I'm going to because I
Speaker 1: think it would be foolish not too. It would be
Speaker 1: a dumb opportunity to miss out on if it's here
Speaker 1: for me. And so I went home and I thought
Speaker 1: of it all weekend and text Mike Place on Sunday saying, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm ready. I'm all in. Let's do it like I'm
Speaker 1: one hundred percent there. And because all that while I
Speaker 1: was like, I was back and forth, this is the
Speaker 1: right decision, is not? I was almost going to be
Speaker 1: announced while still thinking like, I don't think I even
Speaker 1: want to do this myself. I'd seen just too much,
Speaker 1: I guess at that point, but it also was too afraid.
Speaker 1: I was. I was terrified. And he texted me He's like, okay,
Speaker 1: we've actually decided to go a different direction. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: And then the very next morning they announced, Sorry, so Ari.
Speaker 2: Was the bachelor got announced? And replace okay that I
Speaker 2: was gonna ask that.
Speaker 1: Noep, what was I mean to.
Speaker 2: Kind of close everything up here. There's a level two
Speaker 2: where you know, I don't I think it would have
Speaker 2: been an incredible Bachelor. I don't think it would have
Speaker 2: been easy on the producers or easy on you, because
Speaker 2: I think you would have pushed back, and I think
Speaker 2: you would have kind of put your stakes in the
Speaker 2: ground at places, and I think it could have become
Speaker 2: a very exhausting experience. But I do think you could
Speaker 2: you you would have had the potential to, you know,
Speaker 2: find somebody. But I also just think you'd be a
Speaker 2: great person to watch lead a show. I think the
Speaker 2: I actually think the people that are like you lead
Speaker 2: the show in the best of ways.
Speaker 1: Thanks.
Speaker 2: But you find this text out you're saying publicly you
Speaker 2: don't know if you really want to do it or not,
Speaker 2: but it's a good opportunity, and who knows, you could
Speaker 2: have found your wife. It's happened, but now you found
Speaker 2: her in a different way. But back then, was it
Speaker 2: disappointing to read that text? Like it feels like in
Speaker 2: my memory you in a sense disappeared after this kind
Speaker 2: of scenario is happening behind the scenes. I don't remember
Speaker 2: like hearing from you Aton publicly once this happened.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the emotions were mixed. It was a
Speaker 1: sigh of relief that I didn't have to think about
Speaker 1: it anymore. It wasn't a thing. But that continued to
Speaker 1: go on for years after thact. Anytime it was, you know,
Speaker 1: time to select a bachelor again, I came back up.
Speaker 1: Producers even reached out to me a couple of times.
Speaker 1: I was supposed to going to Winter Games with you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then at the last minute that got fix made.
Speaker 1: They just decided, like literally the day before I supposed
Speaker 1: fly out, like we've decided to go a different direction.
Speaker 1: I thought that would have been fun. I'm glad it
Speaker 1: didn't go because I realized have been really bad at
Speaker 1: all the sports and fall.
Speaker 2: I'm glad you didn't go either, because I really like
Speaker 2: Ashley and Jared together.
Speaker 1: That was good. Yes, it was relief and yeah, enjoyment.
Speaker 3: So you, guys, I do you feel like they were
Speaker 3: kind of playing you with knowing that Ari was like
Speaker 3: a backup and they knew that he would be more
Speaker 3: easily produced, and he was always in the back of
Speaker 3: their head because you did ask for certain caveats in
Speaker 3: the contract. Do you mind me asking what did you
Speaker 3: ask that would benefit the relationships during the show.
Speaker 1: Well, for the first one is I saw how Brian
Speaker 1: and Rachel were just getting an on slide of negativity
Speaker 1: in every interview they showed for months after it was
Speaker 1: one of the main questions was, well, how could you
Speaker 1: have looked so interested in Peter and then right away
Speaker 1: gone and engaged Brian. So I wanted to I guess
Speaker 1: a more helpful approach to the relationship afterwards, like champion
Speaker 1: the relationship, not the downfall of the other. Like give
Speaker 1: me some support, give the relationship some support afterwards, don't
Speaker 1: just let it go off on its own, like it
Speaker 1: seemed like she was just kind of thrown out to
Speaker 1: the wolves by herself with Brian, and they weren't really
Speaker 1: supporting her after they got the product that they needed.
Speaker 1: And then they were supporting me like they're, you know,
Speaker 1: trying to get me to be the bachelor. I was
Speaker 1: almost getting more support and as like that is not
Speaker 1: fair to anybody, So I'd asked for that during the show,
Speaker 1: I'd asked that there was more unexpected visits to the
Speaker 1: house or to the locations that the women were inside.
Speaker 1: I could see people in their natural environment, Like, what
Speaker 1: are you doing when you're not on this date that
Speaker 1: you've prepared twenty four hours for? You know, are you
Speaker 1: hanging out with the other girls, are you on your own?
Speaker 1: Are you reading books? Are you working out? Are you
Speaker 1: kind to everybody? Are you whatever? I just want to
Speaker 1: see people in their natural environments. And that was That
Speaker 1: was the two main things. I also wanted therapy sessions
Speaker 1: televised or not. I didn't care in the last couple
Speaker 1: of weeks for the top couples if you want me obviously,
Speaker 1: and then the the other person, but in like three
Speaker 1: different scenario it's like, Okay, we're a couple now, so
Speaker 1: let's go to couples counseling in the last few weeks
Speaker 1: of this show to see if we actually do get
Speaker 1: along or is this just fluff that we're experiencing right now?
Speaker 1: Is this just the excitement of the show that makes
Speaker 1: us think, so we're attracted? And so all those things
Speaker 1: were in some capacity agree to.
Speaker 3: Those are really good asks.
Speaker 2: I love those.
Speaker 3: But I but now back to the question that I
Speaker 3: started asking about Ari. You think he was lingering for
Speaker 3: a while, You think that he was more producible.
Speaker 1: I can only say as a business owner. Now you
Speaker 1: have to line up a lot of things because failure
Speaker 1: is always an option, and if you're not prepared failure,
Speaker 1: you failed as a leader, and as the leader of
Speaker 1: a show, they had to have a backup. They're probably
Speaker 1: talking to four or five six people at all times.
Speaker 1: You guys, remember when we first went onto the show,
Speaker 1: when there was one hundred and fifty people in the
Speaker 1: final casting stages or something like that. And then what
Speaker 1: I was told is that even on the last couple
Speaker 1: of days before the show started, there was like five
Speaker 1: or six extra people waiting in the wings that just
Speaker 1: didn't ever go on to the first episode.
Speaker 2: I think that was the year they asked me to
Speaker 2: come back, that there's.
Speaker 1: People that make waiting sense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, yeah, they asked. I think that was the
Speaker 2: year they called and said, hey, would you do it again?
Speaker 3: Yeah, because there would have been too wait, two bachelors,
Speaker 3: but no, it was Nick. You would have been you,
Speaker 3: then Nick, then you again.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I think that was that. So I must
Speaker 2: have been like your c team, Like they've probably had
Speaker 2: a list of board They said, Peter one, Ari two,
Speaker 2: Been three, We're going to destroy Ben if he comes
Speaker 2: back again, and that sounds like you guys are psycho. No,
Speaker 2: I'm not doing this again, Peter. Inclosing here, we obviously
Speaker 2: are this whole conversation out with talking about your new
Speaker 2: relationship with Hannah. You have made the statement that we're
Speaker 2: going to hold you to because even if you were
Speaker 2: doing it, and just do you still said it. You're
Speaker 2: gonna be engaged by end of the year, have kids
Speaker 2: by in the next year, be married, and at some
Speaker 2: point within that too.
Speaker 1: Got receipts.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she's gonna play this podcast for you.
Speaker 1: I hope, well, I hope she doesn't listen to the
Speaker 1: rest of it. You may not, after.
Speaker 2: All that she's a You had mentioned that at one
Speaker 2: point she was a fan of the show. As you
Speaker 2: enter into this whole next season of life that will
Speaker 2: have less and less to do with your time on
Speaker 2: the show and everything we talked about today, you start
Speaker 2: this whole new life as somebody. Are you glad now
Speaker 2: that you did it? Do you look back on it
Speaker 2: and say, yes, it was an opportunity you are thankful
Speaker 2: you said yes to Or do you wish this would
Speaker 2: have never existed?
Speaker 1: I feel like life as it is right now would
Speaker 1: not exist in the slightest sense if it weren't for
Speaker 1: the show. I can go off a list of things
Speaker 1: that have benefited from me being on that show. So
Speaker 1: my business at the time was in home personal training.
Speaker 1: Because of the show, I couldn't go into people's homes anymore.
Speaker 1: It just became too awkward, and so I started doing
Speaker 1: boot camps. Those boot camps led to me being all
Speaker 1: over the country for four or five six hundred people
Speaker 1: at a time, all the while saving up money to
Speaker 1: open my first gym. And then when the gym opened,
Speaker 1: things were great, but then the pandemic hit and had
Speaker 1: I not had social media, my gym would have closed
Speaker 1: within the first two three months because I had the
Speaker 1: reserves to back it up. I was losing tens of
Speaker 1: thousands of dollars a month. So the social media alone
Speaker 1: from the show benefited me once again, the social clout,
Speaker 1: if you will, that allowed me to open certain doors
Speaker 1: and create certain partnerships even now because of the name
Speaker 1: that follows me, because I feel like I did manage
Speaker 1: to hold myself to a high standard throughout and people
Speaker 1: saw me as like, Okay, you stuck your guns, you
Speaker 1: were brave in a difficult situation. We can know and
Speaker 1: trust you to support our businesses. Now I'm working with
Speaker 1: multimillion dollar, one hundred million dollar investments on some of
Speaker 1: these properties I'm working with, and they're putting my name
Speaker 1: on the side of it, and so it benefited from that.
Speaker 1: And then I look at going on to Raya, and
Speaker 1: while it took me seven years on Raya to eventually
Speaker 1: delete it seven times and pick it back up the
Speaker 1: last time to meet Hannah, it worked. I met Hannah
Speaker 1: through Raya, which I never would have gotten had it
Speaker 1: not been from Blue Check that came from the show.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you wouldn't have gotten on Raya because it's a
Speaker 3: kind of elitist type of dating app where you have
Speaker 3: to like sort of have ties to the entertainment industry.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I had twelve hundred followers before I went on
Speaker 1: that show. That was that was it. I was not
Speaker 1: going on Raya by any means. Yeah, all that say
Speaker 1: like it was a great opportunity that while it had
Speaker 1: a lot of difficulties, it benefited me long term.
Speaker 2: No doubt, it definitely did. And I appreciate you tying
Speaker 2: the threads and the lines together for us because I
Speaker 2: think that's always you know, I've loved the producers back
Speaker 2: in the days that we were on the show, and
Speaker 2: I think some of them are really great. I think
Speaker 2: others of them were not so great, But I do
Speaker 2: hold a lot of them with a lot of respect because,
Speaker 2: if anything, they're brilliant and they're good at what they do.
Speaker 2: And I'm always I always think even in the most
Speaker 2: difficult scenarios, for a lot of the people that come
Speaker 2: on the show, the outcome can be of benefit if
Speaker 2: you allow it to be. And you definitely did, and
Speaker 2: you just tied so many different ways together. Kind of
Speaker 2: that it's on Instagram now, like the butterfly effect, right,
Speaker 2: Like the things that had to happen for you to
Speaker 2: be where you're at today. Well, it's beautiful and we
Speaker 2: appreciate you being here today. On The Almost Famous Podcasts,
Speaker 2: breaking down one of the most, if not the most
Speaker 2: iconic memories and moments in Bachelorette history. Peter, thanks for
Speaker 2: joining the Almost Famous podcast.
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me, guys.
Speaker 3: Follow the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcasts on
Speaker 3: iHeartRadio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.