Speaker 1: The volume.
Speaker 2: The NBA Finals are here. This is your last chance
Speaker 2: to bet on the NBA until next season, and DraftKings
Speaker 2: Sportsbook and official sports betting partner of the NBA is
Speaker 2: pulling out all the stops to make this a finals.
Speaker 2: To remember, one team will be crown champ and the
Speaker 2: other will be lost to history. Who you got winning
Speaker 2: at all? Put your hoops expertise to the test. All
Speaker 2: season long, DraftKings has been the go to spot for
Speaker 2: NBA player props and that doesn't stop now. Who's going
Speaker 2: to carry their team to the chip? Try placing a
Speaker 2: bet on your personal MVP to drop thirty, forty or
Speaker 2: maybe even over fifty. Ready to place your own bet,
Speaker 2: download the DraftKings sports Book app, lock in your bets
Speaker 2: and finish the season as a winner. Here's something special
Speaker 2: for first timers. New DraftKings customers. Bet five dollars to
Speaker 2: get three hundred dollars in bonus bets if your bet wins.
Speaker 2: Don't miss your last chance to bet on the NBA
Speaker 2: this season. Download the DraftKings sports Book app and use
Speaker 2: code hoops that's hoop. That's code hoops for new customers
Speaker 2: to get three hundred dollars in bonus bets if your
Speaker 2: bet wins. When you bet five bucks only on DraftKings,
Speaker 2: the crown is yours. Gambling problem called one hundred gambler
Speaker 2: In New York call eight seven seven eight hope and why,
Speaker 2: or text hope and why to four six seven three
Speaker 2: sixty nine and Connecticut help is available for problem gambling
Speaker 2: Call eight eight eight seven eight nine seven seven seven seven.
Speaker 3: Or visit CCPG dot org.
Speaker 2: Please play responsibly on behalf of Boothill Casino and Resort
Speaker 2: in Kansas twenty one plus. Age and eligibility varies by
Speaker 2: jurisdiction void in Ontario. Bet must win to receive reward.
Speaker 2: Minimum minus five hundred odds required. Bonus bets expire one
Speaker 2: hundred and sixty eight hours after issuance. For additional terms
Speaker 2: and responsible gaming resources, see DKG dot co slash audio.
Speaker 2: All right, well, come to hoop tonight here at the
Speaker 2: volume heavy Saturday.
Speaker 3: Everybody.
Speaker 2: Hope all of you are having a good start to
Speaker 2: your weekend. Well, we've slept on it. I wanted to
Speaker 2: spend some time getting into some more details from some
Speaker 2: of the numbers and some of the stuff I've been
Speaker 2: digging into in the NBA Finals I want to kind
Speaker 2: of zoom out after the first four games and talk
Speaker 2: about some of the big picture dynamics that are taking place.
Speaker 2: After that, I want to talk a little bit about
Speaker 2: the future of the series, and then we have a
Speaker 2: handful of mail bag questions, a couple geared around this
Speaker 2: series and then a few geared around some other stuff
Speaker 2: around the rest of the league. I also want to
Speaker 2: talk a little bit about the refs and make sure
Speaker 2: that we separate, you know, some of the discussion around
Speaker 2: the rules of engagement and some of the realities as
Speaker 2: to like whether or not Indiana got screwed. There's been
Speaker 2: a lot of clips going around this morning with people
Speaker 2: complaining about some of the physicality from Oklahoma City throughout
Speaker 2: the game. I think the rules of engagement have been
Speaker 2: pretty clear throughout this entire postseason, and Indiana is just
Speaker 2: failing the exact same test that everyone else has failed.
Speaker 2: And so I want to give okay See some credit
Speaker 2: and make sure that we separate, you know, some big
Speaker 2: picture discuss about the state of the NBA as it
Speaker 2: pertains to officiating from whether or not this series has
Speaker 2: been fair, because I do believe it has been fair.
Speaker 2: So we'll be digging into some of those dynamics as well.
Speaker 2: You guys have the joke before we get started. Subscribe
Speaker 2: to Hoops Tonight YouTube channels. You don't miss any more
Speaker 2: of our videos. Follow me on Twitter and underscore JCNLT
Speaker 2: so you guys don't miss show announcement Soti'll forget.
Speaker 3: About o podcast feed where you get your podcast.
Speaker 2: On our Hoops Tonight. It's also super helpful if you
Speaker 2: leave a rating and a review on that front. Jackson's
Speaker 2: doing great work on our social media feeds Twitter, Instagram, Facebook,
Speaker 2: and TikTok. Make sure you guys follow us there and
Speaker 2: the last but not least, if you guys want to
Speaker 2: get mail back questions in once we get out of
Speaker 2: the finals, they'll be in the comments underneath the YouTube videos.
Speaker 2: But for until the NBA Finals all over are over,
Speaker 2: I've been doing them through our chats in our postgame shows.
Speaker 2: So whenever we do a postgame show like on Monday,
Speaker 2: you can just come to the show and drop your
Speaker 2: questions in the chat, or if I tweet out a
Speaker 2: question asking for mail back questions like I did last night.
Speaker 2: All right, let's talk some basketball. So major checkpoints through
Speaker 2: four games of the NBA Finals. I talk a lot
Speaker 2: of out the idea of like different units, right, and
Speaker 2: whether or not you can shake a unit, meaning like
Speaker 2: can your defense rattle the foundation of their offense or
Speaker 2: vice versa, And there have been some dynamics in this series,
Speaker 2: I think for both teams in terms of defenses rattling
Speaker 2: the foundations of offenses.
Speaker 3: Both of these teams.
Speaker 2: Are scoring at a rate that is far less efficient
Speaker 2: than they did during the regular season. But the question
Speaker 2: is which defense is doing more damage to the other side,
Speaker 2: and I think it's Oklahoma City's defense easily. The Pacers
Speaker 2: had a one eighteen offensive rating in the first round
Speaker 2: series against the Milwaukee Bucks. They had a one to
Speaker 2: seventeen offensive rating in the second round against the Cleveland Cavaliers,
Speaker 2: a one eighteen offensive rating in the Conference finals against
Speaker 2: the New York Knicks, in just a one oh nine
Speaker 2: point eight offensive rating versus the Oklahoma City Thunder. I
Speaker 2: rewatched the fourth quarter this morning, just trying to familiarize
Speaker 2: myself with the way with which Oklahoma City came back
Speaker 2: into that game, and a big part of it was
Speaker 2: the physicality, which I want to talk about in a
Speaker 2: little bit. When we talked about the officiating I'm going
Speaker 2: to I was very critical of the big picture NBA
Speaker 2: officiating issue with like foul rifting and how it kind
Speaker 2: of messed with the end of a good game last night,
Speaker 2: But I want to get into the specific dynamic with
Speaker 2: the physicality and how it's been the rules of engagement
Speaker 2: for everybody, and how Oklahoma City is just taking advantage
Speaker 2: of it. I thought that was a big part of
Speaker 2: it in the fourth quarter, and then obviously the second
Speaker 2: piece of it. We talked a little bit about this
Speaker 2: last night. Chet Holmgren was all over the rewatch for
Speaker 2: me last night in the fourth quarter, obviously seeing the
Speaker 2: offensive rebounds again, just you know, doing something pretty simple,
Speaker 2: just crashing. Like we just was relentless getting to the
Speaker 2: front of the rim and just caught pacers in switches
Speaker 2: or in help situations. There was a play where nemhard
Speaker 2: was matched up with him, but Nemhrd was kind of
Speaker 2: digging in and helping elsewhere, and like that's the thing,
Speaker 2: Like if you're going to dig in and help and
Speaker 2: offer a towards another offensive player, that's attention. You're not
Speaker 2: offering towards your specific matchup, which can offer a little
Speaker 2: window of distraction, a window of space for you to
Speaker 2: run in behind and try to make something happen, especially
Speaker 2: if you're an athlete, and Chet you know, probably is
Speaker 2: the best vertical like natural vertical length and athleticism player
Speaker 2: on the floor, you know, so like he can actually
Speaker 2: high point the ball in those situations and do a
Speaker 2: good amount of damage. But the big thing was on defense.
Speaker 2: You know, I've been thinking a lot about this defense.
Speaker 2: We were talking about it last night on playback.
Speaker 3: It's the best.
Speaker 2: Defense I've personally ever watched. I think it's what I'll
Speaker 2: remember most about this team. I'll remember them playing nikoley
Speaker 2: Jokic into three straight bad games. The types of truly
Speaker 2: embarrassing performances they've forced all these other guys into.
Speaker 3: Last night in the.
Speaker 2: Fourth quarter, Tyrese Halliburton getting stripped at half court, shooting
Speaker 2: an air ball on a step back three, getting blocked
Speaker 2: on a different step back three, like just these This
Speaker 2: defense has taken some really good players and made them
Speaker 2: look feeble relative to what their typical production is. And
Speaker 2: that's really what is the defining characteristic of this Thunder team.
Speaker 2: But you know, I talk a lot about when we're
Speaker 2: talking about like the natural team build, like the best
Speaker 2: way to build a team. I used to always go
Speaker 2: through that like kind of progression where it's like, I
Speaker 2: want a skill guard, I want an athletic guard. I
Speaker 2: want a slender, perimeter oriented forward. I want a bigger, stronger,
Speaker 2: more versatile big forward at the four.
Speaker 3: Spot, and then I want a big.
Speaker 2: And one of the things that I always talk about
Speaker 2: with the big is defensive versatility. That has to be
Speaker 2: a big that can defend in varying different kinds of
Speaker 2: drop coverages, but also that can defend in switches. And
Speaker 2: the reason why is each matchup is going to call
Speaker 2: for different types of use from the center position. So
Speaker 2: for instance, like let's say you're playing a team that
Speaker 2: has like a straight up non shooter on the floor
Speaker 2: that you're not particularly worried about behind the three point line.
Speaker 2: Imagine like you're playing the Knicks and it's Josh Hart
Speaker 2: for example, right, Like having a guy like that is
Speaker 2: capable of being rangy around the rim as like a
Speaker 2: center fielder helper at the rim is super valuable. Chet
Speaker 2: had a huge help side rotation in an off ball
Speaker 2: situation in the fourth quarter against Andrew Nemhard at the
Speaker 2: basket where you know he got over there. He's a
Speaker 2: touch late, but he got over there and he went vertical.
Speaker 2: It was a good physical play. I liked the non
Speaker 2: call in the moment. It's an example of him being
Speaker 2: in a rangey, off ball kind of roaming spot where
Speaker 2: he can do some damage as a helper.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: Then in different pick and roll coverages. Right, there are
Speaker 2: certain examples of times when you need a big that
Speaker 2: can get up to the level. So, for instance, an
Speaker 2: elite pull up shooter like is Steph Curry got to
Speaker 2: show at the level. An elite driver like Chet would
Speaker 2: be a great weapon against the Shay Gilders Alexander because
Speaker 2: of his ability to show up at the level and
Speaker 2: to keep the ball in front. The big subplots of
Speaker 2: this series is the damage that Shay has done to
Speaker 2: Miles Turner and ball screens because when he comes up
Speaker 2: to the level he can't keep Shay in front. And
Speaker 2: then when you have athletes that are downhill threats but
Speaker 2: that are not elite mid range shot makers, then you
Speaker 2: can run a deeper drop coverage, and that deeper drop
Speaker 2: coverage gives you the flexibility to be able to sag
Speaker 2: back into the paint and chase over the top of
Speaker 2: screens without conceding any sort of shot that is particularly
Speaker 2: efficient or deadly to your defense. And then lastly, if
Speaker 2: guys get wiped out by screens, which can happen, especially
Speaker 2: in super physical playoff games, you need to have a
Speaker 2: big that can switch out onto the perimeter and get
Speaker 2: stops the way that Chet Holmgren did against Aaron E.
Speaker 2: Smith excuse me, Andrew Nemhard and Tyrese Haliburton multiple times
Speaker 2: down the stretch of that game, and that has been
Speaker 2: a consistent theme in the Oklahoma City wins in this series.
Speaker 3: Looking back at Game two, Chet.
Speaker 2: Holmgren's screaming off the screen, specifically in switching switches like
Speaker 2: switching is the ultimate like it's the answer to every
Speaker 2: action that any team wants to run, because as long
Speaker 2: as you communicate through it, you can shut down the
Speaker 2: advantages that come out of that action because you're just
Speaker 2: talking to each other instead of fighting through screens. Right,
Speaker 2: But the downside with switching is it puts a lot
Speaker 2: of pressure on guys defending out of position, right, a
Speaker 2: big having to defend a small, a small having to
Speaker 2: defend a big, even on the glass for both bigs
Speaker 2: and smalls, a quick guy crashing around a big on
Speaker 2: the perimeter, or a big guy pinning a little guy
Speaker 2: right underneath the basket. There's a lot of those dynamics
Speaker 2: that can be solved if you have super versatile players,
Speaker 2: guards that play bigger than they are, like a guys
Speaker 2: like Alex Caruso, guys like Lou Dord. I think Jalen
Speaker 2: Williams plays bigger than even his size would lead you
Speaker 2: to believe. And then you have to have big guys
Speaker 2: that can play smaller and like I think, a consistent
Speaker 2: trend in this entire postseason run has been cheed. Holmgren's
Speaker 2: ability to switch out onto the perimeter and at the
Speaker 2: bare released forced you to take a contested off the
Speaker 2: dribble jump shot. He's not getting beat off the dribble
Speaker 2: like there was a play or Halliburton missed a step
Speaker 2: back three at the top of the key last night
Speaker 2: in the fourth quarter and Haliburton hit him with the moves.
Speaker 3: And jet buckled and almost fell.
Speaker 2: But it doesn't matter because he was overplaying the drive,
Speaker 2: which is what you need from him. And when you've
Speaker 2: got super long arms, you can actually be a bigger
Speaker 2: factor in your recovery even when you're out of position
Speaker 2: both physically and mentally. The arms obviously cause a problem,
Speaker 2: but it gets in the offensive player's head. They changed
Speaker 2: their release a little bit because they think they need
Speaker 2: to shoot it higher, They think they need to shoot
Speaker 2: it quicker, and like I just you know, when I
Speaker 2: think about this Oklahoma City defense, the most obvious thing
Speaker 2: to grasp two is the depth of perimeter defenders, and
Speaker 2: obviously that's a huge part of what they do. Lou
Speaker 2: Georg's job on Tyre's Haliburton the fourth quarter last night amazing.
Speaker 2: Caruso in various matchups and various contexts throughout the series
Speaker 2: has been amazing. The perimeter defense is big, shake yods
Speaker 2: Alexander last night, we talked about the damage that he
Speaker 2: did off the ball defensively in the second half of
Speaker 2: that game. That's all great, but none of it works.
Speaker 2: Like look at Houston, where it's like Shane Gun ends
Speaker 2: up being this target that you can go after. If
Speaker 2: you don't have a big man that can tie it
Speaker 2: all together with the ability to run every single defensive
Speaker 2: coverage efficiently and successfully, then you're going to have issues.
Speaker 3: Regardless of what.
Speaker 2: Type of perimeter defense you have, And I just wanted
Speaker 2: to give some love to Chet Holmgren for the job
Speaker 2: that he did last night. Which team has the most
Speaker 2: reliable half court action? We talked about this last night.
Speaker 2: I won't get too much further into it, but this
Speaker 2: is the second thing I want to look at, zooming
Speaker 2: out from a two to two series. We saw that
Speaker 2: bear out last night. Shay's ISOs were super efficient down
Speaker 2: the stretch and the Pacers had no idea what to do.
Speaker 2: So before we get into some of the rest of
Speaker 2: my kind of big picture checkpoints, I want to actually
Speaker 2: skip ahead to one of our mailbag questions. It was
Speaker 2: brought up in the playback tonight that it feels like
Speaker 2: Indy doesn't have that guy down the stretch, sort of
Speaker 2: lacks aggression, some sort of hierarchy. Who's getting shots in
Speaker 2: crunch time? Who would you empower to be that guy
Speaker 2: if you're Rick or is it just not the Pacers
Speaker 2: team's way. And this was in reference to Dom, one
Speaker 2: of our big Pacers fans who's been coming on playback.
Speaker 2: And again for those of you guys who haven't had
Speaker 2: a chance to hop over there, it's playback dot TV
Speaker 2: slash Hoops tonight, we're going live after games and we
Speaker 2: take callers and we just have a fun time talking
Speaker 2: about hoops and it'd be a fun thing for you
Speaker 2: guys to check out if you haven't had a chance
Speaker 2: to hop over there yet. But anyway, Don was just
Speaker 2: pointing out, like, man, it was just a reminder last
Speaker 2: night that we just don't.
Speaker 3: Have that guy now.
Speaker 2: I would argue that in the future that's something that
Speaker 2: the Pacers will have to address, and I think there's
Speaker 2: a couple of specific directions they can go there. Like
Speaker 2: it's looking to me like Nie Smith is the weakest
Speaker 2: point in that starting lineup. At least within this series.
Speaker 2: Nie Smith has been brutal been able to guard either
Speaker 2: of Shae Kildes, Alexander or Jadab at any point in
Speaker 2: the series. He was the target down the stretch. Last night,
Speaker 2: he was the culprit for a lot of the foul
Speaker 2: calls that were killing the Pacers down the stretch. You
Speaker 2: want a guy like Ben Matherin to be able to
Speaker 2: slot into that spot and be able to defend and
Speaker 2: do all the things that Nie Smith does while bringing
Speaker 2: some more of that off the dribble get to his
Speaker 2: spots type of pop he's younger, he's a few years away.
Speaker 2: That's a more realistic internal option. I don't think the
Speaker 2: Pacers can afford to let Ben walk or do anything
Speaker 2: that involves him potentially leaving the team, because he is
Speaker 2: the one guy that has the upside on the roster
Speaker 2: to become that type of shot maker. Now in the
Speaker 2: short term, it's got to be Pascal Siakam. When I
Speaker 2: rewatched the fourth quarter, there was one play where they
Speaker 2: actually went to Siakam to try to initiate offense. It
Speaker 2: was an iso, kind of like an attack of ball
Speaker 2: pressure off the top of the key. He beat his
Speaker 2: man with a move going towards the left, and when
Speaker 2: he got into the lane, he kind of got out
Speaker 2: of whack and a little out of control, which is
Speaker 2: what happens against good ball pressure. And he tried to
Speaker 2: spin over his left shoulder to throw a kickout pass
Speaker 2: to an open shooter on the right wing, and Alex
Speaker 2: Caruso had left that guy and threw an aggressive double
Speaker 2: team and he came in flying with both arms up
Speaker 2: and he got a deflection and forced a turnover on
Speaker 2: Pascal Siakam. Was an ugly play, but the bigger takeaway
Speaker 2: there is that was the only play in the fourth
Speaker 2: quarter where they looked to Siakam to initiate offense. Now
Speaker 2: where I get frustrated by that is like would it
Speaker 2: have mattered. Probably not. Oklahoma City is the better team
Speaker 2: in my opinion. I think that will continue to bear
Speaker 2: out over the course of the next two or three
Speaker 2: games of the series. But you still and he does
Speaker 2: have a chance to win the series. Their chance is
Speaker 2: in these situations where Oklahoma City really tightens the screws
Speaker 2: that we know Indiana's defense can do damaged to Oklahoma City.
Speaker 2: I think that's something they did a lot of damaged
Speaker 2: to Oklahoma City's offense last night. But when Oklahoma City
Speaker 2: really tightens the screws the way they do, they have
Speaker 2: to find a way for reliable offense. And like, here's
Speaker 2: the thing, Tyres is not going to be able to
Speaker 2: shake free when Oklahoma City really locks in, Andrew and
Speaker 2: Mhart's not going to be able to do much better
Speaker 2: than a pretty tough step back mid ranger when everything
Speaker 2: gets pretty When everything gets tight for Oklahoma City at
Speaker 2: the end of the game, Pascal Siakam is the one
Speaker 2: guy who has a true physical advantage to where if
Speaker 2: you run action for him to get him the ball
Speaker 2: on the block Against a smaller defender, He's going to
Speaker 2: be able to get to that right shoulder fade away,
Speaker 2: and it's a shot that has a physical reliability to it,
Speaker 2: unlike some of these small guards and some of their
Speaker 2: attempts to get shots off against these elite perimeter defenders.
Speaker 2: So to me, in this series, if they end up
Speaker 2: in that situation again, they have to make a more
Speaker 2: intentional effort to just run like think of it like this,
Speaker 2: run it out of action if you want to, but
Speaker 2: just have Tyrese Halliburton run like you know, a pick
Speaker 2: and pop with Miles Turner at the top of the
Speaker 2: key where Miles pops to the left corner and run
Speaker 2: basically a cross screen for run a cross screen for
Speaker 2: Siakam off of the block towards that same block that
Speaker 2: Miles Turner's on that side. Have Miles Turner throw the
Speaker 2: post entry that way. You have Miles Turner's man further
Speaker 2: away from the basket. You have smaller players and help.
Speaker 2: Now Siakam's got the ball on the block. You can
Speaker 2: run the same thing on either block, but basically get
Speaker 2: Siakam an opportunity to get a deeper post catch. The
Speaker 2: idea of running the cross screen is if you run
Speaker 2: the cross screen, it gets Siakam's defender into trail position,
Speaker 2: which allows you a better chance at a post up.
Speaker 2: If they switch it, just have the cross screen or
Speaker 2: be one of the smalls like involving Shay Gilders Alexander right,
Speaker 2: if Shaye is the guy that's in that cross screen.
Speaker 2: If they switch it and Shae tries to front the post,
Speaker 2: we saw a couple examples of them try to force
Speaker 2: that pass over the top and Shay ended up getting
Speaker 2: the deflection. All you have to do is do a
Speaker 2: better job of ceiling and then swing the ball back
Speaker 2: towards the middle and then Siakam con seal and create
Speaker 2: a good angle there for you to throw that pass in.
Speaker 2: But there was no intentional effort to get the ball
Speaker 2: to Siakam against mismatches, and that is if you have
Speaker 2: to come up with a reliable half court action, something
Speaker 2: that's going to guaranteed gets you a decent look and
Speaker 2: a big spot. In this series, I think they've got
Speaker 2: to lean on Siakam the post a little bit more
Speaker 2: than they've.
Speaker 1: Winked blending Vice's signature dynamic storytelling with the high octane
Speaker 1: world of sports. Vice Sports brings an exciting and diverse
Speaker 1: range of programming that goes beyond the game. From action
Speaker 1: pack live events to gripping behind the scenes documentaries to
Speaker 1: hard hitting investigative pieces and in depth profiles of athletes, coaches, teams.
Speaker 1: Vice Sports captures the raw energy, drama, and passion that
Speaker 1: makes sports truly unforgettable. Catch live events and other exclusive
Speaker 1: sports programs only on Vice TV. Go to vicetv dot
Speaker 1: com to find your cable channel.
Speaker 2: The other major takeaway that I have as I zoom
Speaker 2: out from a two to two series is that Oklahoma
Speaker 2: City has proven to be less dependent on jump shooting.
Speaker 2: They're averaging eight more points in the paint per game
Speaker 2: last night, a fifty to thirty six.
Speaker 3: Advantage, and points in the paint.
Speaker 2: Second chance points have been a big swing in big
Speaker 2: spots in this series. Last night, the Thunder had twenty
Speaker 2: three second chance points, including eight just in the fourth quarter.
Speaker 3: Huge difference in that game.
Speaker 2: That all comes down to those two things, their ability
Speaker 2: to get dribble penetration and their overall athleticism advantage.
Speaker 3: We've seen Tyres Andrew Emhart.
Speaker 2: These guys when they get head up with Oklahoma City's guards,
Speaker 2: they are unable to beat that first guy off the dribble.
Speaker 2: We've seen TJ McConnell be able to do it. He's
Speaker 2: out on the floor in that big spot. Late we've
Speaker 2: seen Ben Matherin be able to come off of ball
Speaker 2: screens and get to pull up jump shots, or to
Speaker 2: be able to attack a guy's chest and get into
Speaker 2: the lane. He wasn't on the floor until Nie Smith
Speaker 2: fouled out. But in terms of the starting lineup, Tyreese
Speaker 2: isn't gonna get dribble penetration, you know, against one against
Speaker 2: a really locked in Oklahoma City defense. Very often neither
Speaker 2: is Nemhar, neither's Nie Smith. Like that lineup struggles, whereas
Speaker 2: on the Oklahoma City side, like J Dub and Shay
Speaker 2: at the very least, can probe and get into the
Speaker 2: paint basically whenever they want, which causes all sorts of issues.
Speaker 2: Even just Shay and the attention that gets thrown his
Speaker 2: way on ISOs is part of the reason why we
Speaker 2: saw as many offensive rebounds as we did. We talked
Speaker 2: about that earlier, with Chet beating them Harden like a nail.
Speaker 2: Help situation. But that has been a significant trend in
Speaker 2: this series. To me is like the physical advantages for
Speaker 2: Oklahoma City has manifested in more reliable scoring that is
Speaker 2: less dependent on jump shot result. Last night, they generated
Speaker 2: eleven catch and shoot jump shots total in won that game.
Speaker 2: Indiana generated substantially more catch and shoot shots and shot
Speaker 2: a little better on them, and it just it just
Speaker 2: didn't matter because of the fact that Oklahoma City consistently
Speaker 2: generates stuff right at the rim. We've seen examples of
Speaker 2: teams that have been able to flip that script. I mean,
Speaker 2: the most significant ones that I can think of are
Speaker 2: the Boston Celtics in twenty twenty four. You know, Golden
Speaker 2: State always generated more points in the paint than people
Speaker 2: realize that. Steph Curry is a guy that has had
Speaker 2: success despite having a bit of variance in his game,
Speaker 2: but more than more.
Speaker 3: Than the vast majority of the time.
Speaker 2: When we get back in NBA history, it's reliable stuff
Speaker 2: close to the basket.
Speaker 3: That ends up winning championships.
Speaker 2: It's Jokichen twenty twenty three, it's Jannis in twenty twenty one,
Speaker 2: it's Lebron and ad in twenty twenty Right like even
Speaker 2: Kawhi Leonard brings a lot of that, like short range
Speaker 2: shot making with physicality that like Shay gild As Alexander does.
Speaker 2: Pascal Siakam obviously was such a big part of that
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen playoff runt. Like having that reliable stuff at
Speaker 2: the basket that's less dependent on jump shot resultant variants
Speaker 2: is going to go a long way towards helping you
Speaker 2: win in the later rounds of the NBA playoffs. All right,
Speaker 2: so I have I want to talk about refs for
Speaker 2: a minute, and then we have two non finals questions
Speaker 2: and then we'll.
Speaker 3: Get out of here for the day.
Speaker 2: There's this narrative going around that I saw this morning,
Speaker 2: and this is you know, this is where I get
Speaker 2: separated from the ref discussion. There was a narrative going
Speaker 2: around this morning that the Pacers basically got screwed. And
Speaker 2: the big clip that's going around is that last little
Speaker 2: half court turnover they had where Turner's trying to do
Speaker 2: a dribble pitch with Halliburton out around half court and
Speaker 2: Dort is like just holding him and grabbing him and
Speaker 2: pushing him as he's trying to get to the ball,
Speaker 2: and it ends up leading to a turnover. So I
Speaker 2: want to set that aside for a second and say,
Speaker 2: what I was complaining about last night has to do
Speaker 2: is the with the aesthetics of the NBA. I think
Speaker 2: it looks ridiculous to let Shay push off and not
Speaker 2: go by the letter of the law and be like,
Speaker 2: this is just physical basketball. But then every little tiny
Speaker 2: bit of contact that involves him with his jump shot,
Speaker 2: we're going to send him to the line for right,
Speaker 2: including that grift around the foul line and then the
Speaker 2: step through where Nie Smith got him on the forearm. Again,
Speaker 2: by the book, all of those are fouls, and so
Speaker 2: I don't like the missing like the unbalanced appropriation of
Speaker 2: that or the application that the unbalanced application of the
Speaker 2: rule book where we're allowing Shay to be super physical
Speaker 2: against the defender to get separation, but then when the
Speaker 2: defender actually stays attached to Shay, they're not allowed to
Speaker 2: touch Shay. I think that that makes for a bad
Speaker 2: television product. And in general, we had a highly entertaining
Speaker 2: finals game last night that ended with a parade to
Speaker 2: the foul line.
Speaker 3: So I just don't think it's good TV.
Speaker 2: I personally would like to see the league take steps
Speaker 2: to basically never ever reward a non basketball play with
Speaker 2: free throws ever, ever. Ever, Like, even if you're in
Speaker 2: the penalty, if the guy's got his hand on his
Speaker 2: arm and you do that janky ass pull up great
Speaker 2: nice job side out of bounds, you're not getting free
Speaker 2: throws for taking a non basketball shot. That is a
Speaker 2: big picture take that I have surrounding the idea of
Speaker 2: what I would like for officiating to look like in
Speaker 2: the NBA, so we can have less of Luca grifting,
Speaker 2: less of Brunson grifting, less of Shay Gil just Alexander grifting.
Speaker 2: That's what I want, because it's bad for television. I'd
Speaker 2: rather have them fix that. I do not think Guineana
Speaker 2: got screwed last night, and the reason why is the
Speaker 2: rules of engagement have been pretty clear and established by
Speaker 2: the NBA throughout this entire postseason, and I will be
Speaker 2: able to tie each of these dynamics to specific things
Speaker 2: that we have discussed on this show in this postseason run. Okay,
Speaker 2: so for instance, let's talk about the talk about like
Speaker 2: the bump foul that Jay dub got out of a
Speaker 2: timeout in the second half that was a part of
Speaker 2: an initial push by Oklahoma City or Shay's like stepped
Speaker 2: through touch foul that kind of stuff. Okay, we talked
Speaker 2: about if you guys remember in the Minnesota series.
Speaker 3: I tweeted out a clip of Alex.
Speaker 2: Crusoe guarding Anthony Edwards and we discussed this clip on
Speaker 2: the show, and in it I talked about how Alex
Speaker 2: was being super handsy in four physical with Alex out
Speaker 2: or excuse me, with Aunt out on the perimeter, and
Speaker 2: he is super handsy. He's like grabbing him, holding him,
Speaker 2: doing all that kind of stuff. And then Aunt breaks
Speaker 2: Alex off with a pretty nasty move. And when he
Speaker 2: breaks him off, he gets an angle. As soon as
Speaker 2: he gets an angle, Alex goes hands off, and he's
Speaker 2: up high and he's sliding his feet and he's taking
Speaker 2: contact in the chest and ends up getting in the
Speaker 2: lane and making like a really nifty reverse layup that
Speaker 2: Alex tries to get to in time. He just barely
Speaker 2: misses it. Really nice bucket from Ant. But I want
Speaker 2: to call attention to Alex Caruso understanding the rules of
Speaker 2: engagement the NBA has allowed throughout this entire postseason run
Speaker 2: a ton of hands on contact when you are squared
Speaker 2: up with the on ball guy.
Speaker 3: But when you get an angle.
Speaker 2: All postseason, they've been calling a lot more of that
Speaker 2: contact In the last two rounds, it's been a little
Speaker 2: bit less of like the lane line bump foul, but
Speaker 2: we did see that. We've seen it a couple times
Speaker 2: in the series. JDub got one last night. There was
Speaker 2: one that I think it was Tyrese, I can't remember.
Speaker 2: Alex Caruso had one in this series on Obi Toppin.
Speaker 2: The lane line bump foul is still something we've seen
Speaker 2: a few times in this series, but it's been called.
Speaker 3: A little bit less.
Speaker 2: But for the most part throughout this postseason run, if
Speaker 2: you're squared up, you're allowed to be handsy. If you
Speaker 2: give up an angle, get the hands off. That's been
Speaker 2: the way they've called it. I don't like it in
Speaker 2: the context of some of the grifty stuff they've allowed,
Speaker 2: but they've been somewhat consistent in the way that they've
Speaker 2: allowed contact on the perimeter versus contact on drive.
Speaker 3: So like, we know what the rules of engagement are.
Speaker 2: Similarly, off ball, what if I said NonStop regarding Steph
Speaker 2: Curry in the way that the Houston Rockets guarded him
Speaker 2: and the way that the Timberwolves were gonna guard him
Speaker 2: if he didn't hurt himself. And looking back towards the
Speaker 2: regular season, in every single time that Steph has ended
Speaker 2: up in like a high leverage playoff moment, Warriors fans
Speaker 2: constantly complain about what the grabbing and holding of Steph
Speaker 2: off ball off ball. The NBA has allowed a shit
Speaker 2: ton of contact in this entire postseason run. So, for instance,
Speaker 2: if Tyrese Halliburton wants to work more out of dribble pitches,
Speaker 2: meaning if he doesn't want to dribble the ball into
Speaker 2: the screen, but he wants to have come flying off
Speaker 2: that screen with Turner, he's got to understand there's gonna
Speaker 2: be a lot more contact allowed there. Because throughout this
Speaker 2: entire postseason run, if you are off the ball, cutting
Speaker 2: two end from the basketball, they are letting you be handsy.
Speaker 2: So what is Lou Dort doing there? Yeah, he's fouling
Speaker 2: tyres by the book, But the NBA has established as
Speaker 2: part of their rules of engagement in this postseason that
Speaker 2: they're allowing a lot of off ball grabbing and holding
Speaker 2: and pushing. So like, here's the thing. Did I think
Speaker 2: it was ugly that they let Shay get away with
Speaker 2: a push off while sending him to the freight throw
Speaker 2: line on some really ticky tack shot attempts. Yeah, it's
Speaker 2: not good television, but it kind of falls in line
Speaker 2: with what they've been doing in this entire postseason run.
Speaker 2: If you are a well coached team, which I think
Speaker 2: the Pacers are, if you are a basketball team going
Speaker 2: into any series in this playoff run, should be talking
Speaker 2: to their guys and being like, hey, listen, when you're
Speaker 2: on the perimeter, you can be physical, but once you
Speaker 2: give up that angle, get the hands off, that's when
Speaker 2: they're getting tight with the whistle. Or Hey, if we're
Speaker 2: running off ball action, you guys need to be prepared
Speaker 2: for physicality. This is part of the issue that we're
Speaker 2: going to run into.
Speaker 3: We're gonna have.
Speaker 2: To be really careful with our handoffs, with our back
Speaker 2: door cut passes in those situations. We saw another one
Speaker 2: last night. How many times in this series in the
Speaker 2: last two games have we seen Oklahoma City turn the
Speaker 2: ball over because Indiana is bear hugging a dude in
Speaker 2: a full denial and they try to back cut out
Speaker 2: of it, and a Thunder player will throw a back
Speaker 2: cut pass and that guy will be being held and
Speaker 2: so he can't get to the ball in time, and
Speaker 2: so the Pacers beat him to the ball, and now
Speaker 2: they're running out the other way.
Speaker 3: That's the exact same thing hurting the Thunder.
Speaker 2: They are being physical in their off ball defense on
Speaker 2: both ends of the floor, and so again I have
Speaker 2: my frustrations. I hope the league works over the coming
Speaker 2: years to get rid of some of this non basketball junk.
Speaker 2: I want to see Shay Gildas Alexander win the title
Speaker 2: making shots like the three he hit on the right wing.
Speaker 2: I said this last night. I'm cool with the push off.
Speaker 2: Let Shay push off. If defenders are going to be
Speaker 2: handsy on the ball, Shay should be able to be
Speaker 2: handsy back like I am.
Speaker 3: Like pro push off.
Speaker 2: You just can't not call the push off and then
Speaker 2: also call the tiki tag stuff.
Speaker 3: It's bad television, I agree. But all of it.
Speaker 2: Falls in line in general with what the league has
Speaker 2: allowed throughout this postseason run. Oklahoma City is taking those
Speaker 2: rules of engagement, playing smartly within them, and leveraging that
Speaker 2: to win postseason games. And I've seen a lot of
Speaker 2: people just complaining about it on the other side instead
Speaker 2: of doing the same. And I would argue the Pacers
Speaker 2: have benefited from it in their own way, like we
Speaker 2: discussed earlier. So again, let's separate conversations about the state
Speaker 2: of the NBA and officiating from oh fairness and getting
Speaker 2: screwed or whatever. The Pacers lost to the Thunder last
Speaker 2: night because they couldn't score on them, and the same
Speaker 2: thing happened to Minnesota and the same thing happened to Denver.
Speaker 2: It's ultimately the demon that has to be conquered. If
Speaker 2: you're gonna beat the Oklahoma City Thunder and the Thunder
Speaker 2: of just maximize what you can do in terms of
Speaker 2: defense within the context of what the league is allowing
Speaker 2: in this postseason run. All right, two more quick mailbag
Speaker 2: questions and then we'll get out of here for the day.
Speaker 2: Do you think Dallas is a good destination for Kevin
Speaker 2: Durant if they can keep Cooper Flag. So it gets
Speaker 2: tricky because you're already super deep at Ford. So like,
Speaker 2: if you look at the MAVs current roster, you have Lively, Gafford,
Speaker 2: and Ads. You have three guys that can basically play
Speaker 2: the five, and then you have PJ. Washington and you
Speaker 2: have Cooper Flag. It's just a glut of front court players.
Speaker 2: It's five guys that all can play like a starting
Speaker 2: role on a on any team in the NBA that
Speaker 2: play either the four or the five. And so that
Speaker 2: makes it particularly tough in terms of like trying to
Speaker 2: balance the roster by bringing in another power forward. Now,
Speaker 2: speaking strictly from the basketball, I like kd's fit with
Speaker 2: Anthony Davis. Anthony Davis at this phase in his career
Speaker 2: is like a pretty big and strong center. So I
Speaker 2: like that like physicality fit better than I like KD
Speaker 2: with like a Victor women Yama, for example. I love
Speaker 2: the idea of a KDAD back line in terms of defense,
Speaker 2: the ability to have Anthony Davis come up to the
Speaker 2: level in ball screens, which has always been one of
Speaker 2: his elite traits. He's very good at contesting there, he's
Speaker 2: very good at switching there, while KD can be the
Speaker 2: low man that kind of operates on the backside. He's
Speaker 2: the type of offensive player that they need. All that
Speaker 2: makes a ton of sense. It's just a simple question
Speaker 2: of timeline, right, So, like, are you going to continue
Speaker 2: to dive into this older timeline with Anthony Davis and
Speaker 2: an injured Kyrie Irving and potentially a Kevin Durant. Are
Speaker 2: you going to lean into this younger timeline where you've
Speaker 2: got some guys that are in their twenties like Daniel
Speaker 2: Gafford in Washington and super young players that are on
Speaker 2: the rise like Derek Lively and like Derek Lively and
Speaker 2: a Cooper Flag and obviously guards like Jayden Hardy, like
Speaker 2: there is there is a up and coming generation of
Speaker 2: MAVs young players, and you've got to at a certain
Speaker 2: point pick a timeline. I mean, we've just seen we
Speaker 2: saw Golden State try to do the two timelines thing,
Speaker 2: and it just has led to a lot of frustration
Speaker 2: in the last few years as they've watched their young
Speaker 2: guys all of a sudden become do a ton of money,
Speaker 2: which has changed their value and trade conversations.
Speaker 3: It just gets tough.
Speaker 2: And so my thing is like, Okay, if you want
Speaker 2: to get get kad and commit to like a Kevin Durant,
Speaker 2: Anthony Davis, Kyrie Irving Corps, sure go ahead, But like,
Speaker 2: at a certain point, you gotta pick. Are you gonna
Speaker 2: go for the future with Cooper or are you gonna
Speaker 2: go for the now and and I think if you
Speaker 2: try to split the difference, you're gonna end up with
Speaker 2: a mediocre team now and a mediocre team in the future.
Speaker 3: The guys that you have are valuable.
Speaker 2: If you can get Kyrie back out onto the floor
Speaker 2: and get him playing, and get him demonstrating that his
Speaker 2: knee is good and that he's ready to play, you
Speaker 2: can trade him and get value for him. Same thing
Speaker 2: goes for Anthony Davis. Same thing goes for some of
Speaker 2: the depth that they have, Guys like PJ. Washington that
Speaker 2: don't make a ton of sense on a Cooper Flag team,
Speaker 2: Daniel Gafford that doesn't make a ton of sense on
Speaker 2: a Derek Lively team. There are guys that Dallas can
Speaker 2: flip to bring in a bunch of draft compensation and
Speaker 2: then open things up for Cooper Flag to be able
Speaker 2: to slowly work himself into the NBA player that he
Speaker 2: wants to be. I'm okay with them starting the year
Speaker 2: with this current roster. There's no reason to trade everybody
Speaker 2: right now. Anthony Davis's value is lower because he was hurt.
Speaker 2: Kyrie's value is lower because he's hurt. Bring everybody back,
Speaker 2: go into camp be a funky, weird team that's too
Speaker 2: deep in the front court and has a kind of
Speaker 2: a few redundancies on the roster, But just be the best,
Speaker 2: most fun team you can be until these guys kind
Speaker 2: of get to the point where they rehab their trade value.
Speaker 2: And when they do, then you can make that decision.
Speaker 2: And who knows, Like maybe Kyrie and Anthony Davis both
Speaker 2: look amazing, and like Kyrie comes back in less than
Speaker 2: a year and manages to come back, you know, an
Speaker 2: All Star break or something next year, and he looks
Speaker 2: like Kyrie and AD looks like Ad and you look
Speaker 2: like the super deep elite defense, and all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: you can, you know, let Cooper flag slowly work his
Speaker 2: way into the player he's going to become on a
Speaker 2: competing team. But it's just I just don't think I
Speaker 2: would throw all the chips in the bag for Kevin
Speaker 2: Durant at this point. I think that that kind of
Speaker 2: messes with the timeline for Dallas, and I think that's
Speaker 2: a big part of why they haven't been a mentioned.
Speaker 2: I still I've seen the reporting. It looks like there's
Speaker 2: still several teams involved, but it looks like Minnesota is
Speaker 2: becoming a more realistic destination. Minnesota, to me, is my
Speaker 2: favorite Kevin Durant. Minnesota is my favorite Kevin Durant destination
Speaker 2: by far. I just think that he is super fun
Speaker 2: with ant. I think he compliments that team in every way.
Speaker 2: I think they compliment at him in every way. It
Speaker 2: would be a worthy match for a team like Oklahoma
Speaker 2: City in a series that I would really like to
Speaker 2: watch next year. I'm hoping for Kadi too Minnesota. Last question,
Speaker 2: this isn't related to the NBA Finals, but did you
Speaker 2: watch the Michael Beasley versus Lance Stephen one v one
Speaker 2: would love to hear your thoughts on it.
Speaker 3: I didn't watch the whole video, but I saw highlights.
Speaker 2: And it reminded me of if any of you guys
Speaker 2: who have ever played like a real one on one
Speaker 2: with some animosity, where like both guys are really trying
Speaker 2: to win and there's been some shit talk and it
Speaker 2: kind of feels like pride is on the line. That's
Speaker 2: what it looks like what you saw in that Michael
Speaker 2: Beasley versus Land Stevenson. It gets super physical to the
Speaker 2: point of like being borderline just a rugby match, and
Speaker 2: it gets super intense and it ultimately comes down to
Speaker 2: which guy can through physicality get to spots. So I'm
Speaker 2: not surprised at all that the big, strong forward was
Speaker 2: able to get to his spots more effectively and knockdown
Speaker 2: shots over the top. But I remember being in a
Speaker 2: couple of examples of like kind of like contentious one
Speaker 2: on ones like that. I had one with a college
Speaker 2: teammate when I was at Arizona Christian That was we
Speaker 2: were actually joking about it with each other over Instagram
Speaker 2: messaging to each other, like a couple months ago, but
Speaker 2: like it.
Speaker 3: Was very similar.
Speaker 2: We got into it a few times of practice and
Speaker 2: then we were like, you know, let's play some one
Speaker 2: on one and it was like I remember it being
Speaker 2: like one of us was bleeding too, Like it was
Speaker 2: like the most physical game of one on one basketball
Speaker 2: I've ever played in my entire life, because it just
Speaker 2: becomes so intense when pride is on the line like that,
Speaker 2: And anybody, anybody who's been in that situation knows exactly
Speaker 2: what I'm talking about. But when I watched the Michael
Speaker 2: Beasley Versus Land Stevenson one on one, I immediately just
Speaker 2: got some like some of that, like just deja vu
Speaker 2: from what that is like.
Speaker 3: And I think it's fun.
Speaker 2: I think it's an example of I don't think it
Speaker 2: always has to be that content just like I think
Speaker 2: if they did it at All Star, for instance, with
Speaker 2: active NBA players, I think it would be less contentious
Speaker 2: and a little bit more like, you know, both guys
Speaker 2: kind of easing their way into it. But when you
Speaker 2: put real money on the line, when you put real
Speaker 2: pride on the line, one on one becomes.
Speaker 3: This blood bath, physical sport.
Speaker 2: And I'm not surprised that Michael Beasley was the guy
Speaker 2: who won there. And obviously Michael's just one of the
Speaker 2: more underrated one on one players in the history of
Speaker 2: the league. He's got stories of him doing damage to
Speaker 2: so many different players in practice over the years and
Speaker 2: games over the years. But yeah, I just couldn't help
Speaker 2: but think back to some of the more contentious one
Speaker 2: on ones that I've been in in my life when
Speaker 2: I was watching that video. All right, guys, that's all
Speaker 2: I have for this morning is always as sincerely appreciate
Speaker 2: you guys for supporting me and supporting the show. We
Speaker 2: will be back on Monday night for Game five of
Speaker 2: the NBA Finals. We'll have a live breakdown on YouTube
Speaker 2: as well as our normal playback stream.
Speaker 3: I will see you guys then.
Speaker 2: What's up guys? As always, I appreciate you for listening
Speaker 2: to and supporting OOPS tonight. They would actually be really
Speaker 2: helpful for us. Would take a second and leave a
Speaker 2: rating and a review. As always, I appreciate you guys
Speaker 2: supporting us, but if you could take a minute to
Speaker 2: do that, I'd really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: The volume