WEBVTT - Hell and Gone Murder Line: Victor Collins 0:00:08.245 --> 0:00:11.885 School of Humans. 0:00:13.325 --> 0:00:16.565 On the night of Saturday, November twenty first, twenty fifteen, 0:00:17.125 --> 0:00:20.645 Victor Collins, a forty seven year old former police officer 0:00:20.685 --> 0:00:23.485 who worked at Walmart, was hanging out with some friends, 0:00:24.085 --> 0:00:28.365 Owen MacDonald, Sean Henry, and thirty one year old James Bates. 0:00:29.165 --> 0:00:32.645 The four friends went back to James's house in Bentonville, Arkansas, 0:00:32.685 --> 0:00:34.325 to watch a Razorbacks football game. 0:00:35.165 --> 0:00:36.325 This was a big game. 0:00:36.685 --> 0:00:40.205 The Arkansas Razorbacks were playing Mississippi State, so this was 0:00:40.205 --> 0:00:43.725 an all day event. Now, and this is according to 0:00:43.725 --> 0:00:47.245 court documents, these four guys were drinking. They started out 0:00:47.285 --> 0:00:50.485 with beers and also had some vodka shots. They hung 0:00:50.525 --> 0:00:53.445 out and talked and kept drinking after the game ended. 0:00:54.405 --> 0:00:57.565 At some point, according to court documents, the guys went 0:00:57.605 --> 0:01:00.005 out to the back patio to have some more beers 0:01:00.005 --> 0:01:03.645 in the hot tub. At around eleven PM, Sean and 0:01:03.765 --> 0:01:06.485 James got out of the hot tub, leaving Victor and 0:01:06.605 --> 0:01:10.085 Owen hanging out there. The night seemed to be kind 0:01:10.085 --> 0:01:13.565 of winding down at that point. Sean left first, then 0:01:13.645 --> 0:01:18.165 Owen sometime shortly after midnight, leaving Victor and James alone 0:01:18.205 --> 0:01:21.405 at the house. Now, James claimed that after that at 0:01:21.445 --> 0:01:24.125 around one am, he went to bed to crash. 0:01:24.285 --> 0:01:25.925 He said, he left Victor in the hot tub. 0:01:26.845 --> 0:01:32.725 In the morning, he found Victor there floating face down. Now, 0:01:32.765 --> 0:01:36.125 what really happened that night and what happened next depended 0:01:36.205 --> 0:01:37.325 on who you asked. 0:01:38.205 --> 0:01:39.485 But one thing is for sure. 0:01:39.565 --> 0:01:42.885 This simple Saturday afternoon that started out with four friends 0:01:42.965 --> 0:01:48.085 drinking began a multi year investigation, an ordeal that involved 0:01:48.125 --> 0:01:53.365 allegations of murder, police corruption, and sparked a national debate 0:01:53.605 --> 0:01:57.285 about what devices in our houses are listening when we 0:01:57.325 --> 0:02:01.845 think we're alone. I'm Catherine Townsend. Over the past five 0:02:01.925 --> 0:02:05.045 years of making my true crime podcast, Helling Gone, I 0:02:05.085 --> 0:02:07.765 have learned there is no such thing as a small 0:02:07.845 --> 0:02:11.805 town where murder never happens. I have received hundreds of 0:02:11.805 --> 0:02:15.045 messages from people all around the country asking for help 0:02:15.085 --> 0:02:18.085 with an unsolved murder that's affected them, their families, and 0:02:18.125 --> 0:02:21.645 their communities. If you have a case you'd like me 0:02:21.685 --> 0:02:23.925 and my team to look into, you can reach out 0:02:23.965 --> 0:02:26.165 to us at our Helen Gone Murder Line at six 0:02:26.205 --> 0:02:30.365 seven eight seven four four six one four five. That's 0:02:30.365 --> 0:02:33.925 six seven eight seven four four six one four five. 0:02:34.725 --> 0:03:19.085 This is Helen Gone Murder Line. 0:03:23.045 --> 0:03:24.645 James called nine to one one. 0:03:24.765 --> 0:03:28.045 At nine thirty five am, paramedics and police got to 0:03:28.085 --> 0:03:30.325 his house and tried to put together what happened the 0:03:30.405 --> 0:03:34.005 night before. Now again, James claimed that he had gone 0:03:34.005 --> 0:03:36.525 to bed at around one am. He said he woke 0:03:36.605 --> 0:03:39.765 up shortly after nine am on November twenty second and 0:03:39.845 --> 0:03:41.485 found Victor dead in the hot tab. 0:03:42.605 --> 0:03:44.685 James said he was asleep the whole time. 0:03:44.765 --> 0:03:47.765 He had no idea what happened to Victor, but from 0:03:47.765 --> 0:03:50.765 the time that police got there, it did seem like. 0:03:50.885 --> 0:03:55.725 Detectives were questioning certain elements of James's story. They found 0:03:55.765 --> 0:03:59.245 some facial injuries on Victor, a black and swollen eye. 0:03:59.605 --> 0:04:03.045 They started to suspect that maybe James wasn't telling them 0:04:03.085 --> 0:04:05.725 the full truth. They wondered if the two men it 0:04:05.725 --> 0:04:08.125 had some kind of fight, and that maybe James had 0:04:08.125 --> 0:04:11.925 tried to cover it up. Detectives also noticed blood in 0:04:11.965 --> 0:04:15.245 the water, which, according to an arrest affidavit, was tinted 0:04:15.245 --> 0:04:19.125 red and appeared to contain bodily fluids and blood. There 0:04:19.205 --> 0:04:21.765 was also blood coming from Victor's nose in his mouth, 0:04:22.405 --> 0:04:27.965 both were swollen. He also had a cut on his eyelid. Detectives' 0:04:28.005 --> 0:04:32.165 suspicions were raised further, according to the affidavit, when they 0:04:32.205 --> 0:04:35.005 began to believe that the patio and the hot tub 0:04:35.125 --> 0:04:38.125 had been sprayed down with a water hose. They saw 0:04:38.165 --> 0:04:40.405 a hot tub cushion lying on the ground with blood 0:04:40.405 --> 0:04:43.165 spots on it. They also saw an area of blood 0:04:43.165 --> 0:04:46.245 spatter on the hot tub cover, blood that, according to 0:04:46.245 --> 0:04:50.085 the affidavit, was matched to Victor Collins. They thought that 0:04:50.165 --> 0:04:53.605 this was strange because, first of all, they were wondering 0:04:53.965 --> 0:04:57.565 if the hot tub area was sprayed down, who did it, 0:04:57.725 --> 0:05:00.285 Because who would spray down a hot tub in the 0:05:00.285 --> 0:05:03.765 middle of the night before calling the police. And also, 0:05:04.045 --> 0:05:06.765 it was very cold that night, so they thought using 0:05:06.845 --> 0:05:09.805 a hose at all was kind of odd. Things got 0:05:09.845 --> 0:05:12.965 even more complicated once Victor's body was sent for an autopsy. 0:05:13.965 --> 0:05:17.805 The medical examiner, doctor Charles Cocus, said that in his opinion, 0:05:18.325 --> 0:05:23.165 Victor died from strangulation, with drowning as a secondary contributing factor. 0:05:24.485 --> 0:05:28.085 James told police that this was absolutely not true. He 0:05:28.165 --> 0:05:31.925 completely denied strangling his friend. He said he had nothing 0:05:31.965 --> 0:05:34.725 to do with Victor's death. It was obviously an accident. 0:05:35.165 --> 0:05:36.965 He said he wasn't there at all, He'd been in 0:05:37.005 --> 0:05:40.845 bed by the way. To this day, James completely denies 0:05:40.925 --> 0:05:42.685 he had anything to do with Victor's death. 0:05:43.605 --> 0:05:44.685 Victor was from Georgia. 0:05:45.045 --> 0:05:47.605 He had been a police officer, first with the Cherokee 0:05:47.645 --> 0:05:51.445 County Sheriff's Office, later with the Canton Police Department. He 0:05:51.525 --> 0:05:54.325 left that job and in twenty ten moved to Arkansas 0:05:54.405 --> 0:05:56.445 with his wife, Christine, and their family. 0:05:57.245 --> 0:05:58.565 He took the job at Walmart. 0:05:59.325 --> 0:06:02.325 Friends and families said he and Christine had been very 0:06:02.365 --> 0:06:05.965 happily married for eighteen years and they had five children. 0:06:06.605 --> 0:06:11.165 So for this loving marriage to end with hot tub 0:06:11.205 --> 0:06:16.685 homicide headlines must have been so incredibly sad and shocking. 0:06:17.565 --> 0:06:20.085 The irony is terrible too, because I can imagine I 0:06:20.125 --> 0:06:22.525 don't know for sure, but I can imagine that one 0:06:22.605 --> 0:06:25.085 of the reasons why Victor probably chose to leave law 0:06:25.165 --> 0:06:27.885 enforcement in the first place and move into something like 0:06:27.965 --> 0:06:30.805 loss prevention was so he'd be in a safer place, 0:06:31.285 --> 0:06:33.325 so that he would not have to worry about getting 0:06:33.365 --> 0:06:35.845 killed on the job. The fact that he died at 0:06:35.885 --> 0:06:38.725 a friend's house while having a few beers and watching 0:06:38.765 --> 0:06:43.685 a football game is so sad and tragic. But police wondered, 0:06:44.445 --> 0:06:48.365 was this just a tragic accident, or did something happen 0:06:48.565 --> 0:06:54.045 after hours? What really happened in that hot tub. James 0:06:54.045 --> 0:06:58.085 continued to insist Victor's death had been an accident. He 0:06:58.365 --> 0:07:01.805 and later through his attorney in a lawsuit, pointed out Victor. 0:07:01.645 --> 0:07:04.005 Was a big guy, six foot five. 0:07:03.805 --> 0:07:07.605 And three hundred and fifteen pounds, and they were drinking. 0:07:08.005 --> 0:07:10.485 Victor's blood alcohol level at the time had been a 0:07:10.605 --> 0:07:13.165 point three to one eight, around four times the legal 0:07:13.205 --> 0:07:15.845 limit to drive in the state of Arkansas. There were 0:07:15.885 --> 0:07:18.845 no other illegal drugs found in Victor's system, though the 0:07:18.885 --> 0:07:24.205 autopsy did fund traces of the antidepressant prozac and methyl fenidae, 0:07:25.125 --> 0:07:28.365 which is used to treat narcolepsy and is found in 0:07:28.405 --> 0:07:32.925 the brand name Riddlin. Later, through his lawyer Jason Bates, 0:07:33.005 --> 0:07:36.805 also pointed out there were no marks on Victor's neck, 0:07:36.925 --> 0:07:39.725 no evidence that there had been anything wrapped around his neck, 0:07:39.765 --> 0:07:43.525 no ligature marks, and no evidence of damage to Victor's throat. 0:07:44.325 --> 0:07:47.645 But police seemed to be convinced that James was guilty. 0:07:48.605 --> 0:07:51.285 They executed a search warrant, looked through his phone records 0:07:51.325 --> 0:07:53.525 and found evidence that he had been texting a woman 0:07:53.565 --> 0:07:58.685 that night. Later, according to police, James called his father 0:07:58.845 --> 0:08:02.085 and some friends, but apparently every single one of the 0:08:02.125 --> 0:08:05.965 calls were canceled before they had a chance to go through. Now, 0:08:06.125 --> 0:08:08.805 James told police those must have been butt dials and 0:08:08.845 --> 0:08:11.445 those definitely happened, especially after drinking. 0:08:12.165 --> 0:08:13.245 But police were. 0:08:13.085 --> 0:08:17.325 Suspicious and a lot of these calls, according to detectives, 0:08:17.405 --> 0:08:20.525 were placed after one am, So it seems like the 0:08:20.565 --> 0:08:23.925 detectives saw it as further potential evidence that maybe James 0:08:23.925 --> 0:08:26.125 had not gone to bed when he said he did. 0:08:27.125 --> 0:08:29.725 They did confirm other elements of his story. They talked 0:08:29.725 --> 0:08:33.005 to a neighbor who saw Owen walking home shortly after midnight. 0:08:33.765 --> 0:08:37.325 Owen was intoxicated, and this neighbor gave Owen a ride home. 0:08:38.005 --> 0:08:41.325 Owen's wife confirmed that Owen got home at twelve thirty am. 0:08:41.845 --> 0:08:45.365 Owen told police that when he left everything was fine. 0:08:45.525 --> 0:08:48.645 Victor was alive and well, and the neighbor who gave 0:08:48.685 --> 0:08:51.685 Owen a lift said that other than being pretty intoxicated, 0:08:52.005 --> 0:08:53.885 he saw no sign that there had been any kind 0:08:53.885 --> 0:08:57.445 of a struggle. So now the timeframe was narrowing. It 0:08:57.525 --> 0:09:00.645 seemed like whatever had happened in that house happened after 0:09:00.765 --> 0:09:03.885 Owen left. Detectives drained the hot tub, and at the 0:09:03.885 --> 0:09:07.565 bottom they found Victor's glass that were broken. They also 0:09:07.685 --> 0:09:11.645 found a broken shot glass and Victor's wedding ring. When 0:09:11.645 --> 0:09:14.005 I first read that, I thought that was a little 0:09:14.005 --> 0:09:18.285 bit odd because wedding rings don't normally slip off like that. 0:09:19.045 --> 0:09:21.925 But today I learned a lot of people take rings 0:09:21.965 --> 0:09:25.645 off because over time, chlorine and chemicals in hot tubs 0:09:25.645 --> 0:09:28.565 can corrode the metal. This was true, by the way, 0:09:28.725 --> 0:09:32.285 even though James had a saltwater hot tub. I actually, 0:09:32.325 --> 0:09:34.725 because I get obsessed with these details, did some research 0:09:34.845 --> 0:09:37.885 on saltwater hot tubs and also found out that they 0:09:37.925 --> 0:09:42.565 do use chlorine generators, so technically they're not chlorine free. 0:09:42.685 --> 0:09:46.605 There is still chlorine in a saltwater hot tub. Police 0:09:46.645 --> 0:09:50.205 also got a search warrant for James's body. They took 0:09:50.245 --> 0:09:53.565 pictures of him and during that photo session they documented 0:09:53.685 --> 0:09:57.325 James had several scratches on him on his abdomen, back, 0:09:57.365 --> 0:10:01.685 in arms. They also stated he had a large bruise. Again, 0:10:02.245 --> 0:10:06.645 this is not confirmation of anything, because yes, this could 0:10:06.685 --> 0:10:09.125 have been caused from a fight. But also, these guys 0:10:09.125 --> 0:10:11.645 were drunk. They were stumbling around, climbing in and out 0:10:11.645 --> 0:10:14.525 of a hot tub. I can see how they could 0:10:14.565 --> 0:10:18.565 have had marks on them. There was no definitive physical 0:10:18.605 --> 0:10:23.405 evidence linking James to Victor's body, but detectives just did 0:10:23.445 --> 0:10:26.285 not believe that he had butt dialed that many times 0:10:26.405 --> 0:10:29.525 and canceled the calls, especially since they said his cell 0:10:29.565 --> 0:10:33.005 phone was locked again. This is all according to the 0:10:33.045 --> 0:10:37.005 affidavit of probable cause. They asked him about the scratches 0:10:37.005 --> 0:10:39.325 and some small cuts they said he had on his hands. 0:10:39.765 --> 0:10:43.045 James claimed they were from CrossFit classes or that they 0:10:43.125 --> 0:10:48.085 might have been scratches from his cat. Eventually, they arrested 0:10:48.165 --> 0:10:51.285 James and he was charged with first degree murder and 0:10:51.325 --> 0:10:54.325 tampering with evidence. The judge set the bail at three 0:10:54.405 --> 0:10:58.045 hundred and fifty thousand dollars. He bonded out and waited 0:10:58.045 --> 0:11:01.685 for the trial to start. James was facing serious prison 0:11:01.725 --> 0:11:04.965 time ten to forty years in prison plus six years 0:11:05.005 --> 0:11:07.845 if he was found guilty of the tampering charges. So 0:11:08.045 --> 0:11:11.285 now the police had a problem because they thought something 0:11:11.405 --> 0:11:13.445 might have happened between James and Victor. 0:11:14.005 --> 0:11:16.685 But actually it was just a he said. He said. 0:11:16.725 --> 0:11:19.525 Because there were only two people there, Victor and James, 0:11:19.805 --> 0:11:22.605 they had no real physical evidence. There was nothing on 0:11:22.685 --> 0:11:25.845 James linking him to Victor. No one, none of the 0:11:25.885 --> 0:11:28.165 other friends who were there that night had any idea 0:11:28.205 --> 0:11:31.765 about any bad blood between James and Victor. They said 0:11:31.805 --> 0:11:34.485 they were all having fun. And also, it's really hard 0:11:34.525 --> 0:11:36.925 in general when someone is killed at a friend's house 0:11:37.325 --> 0:11:40.845 sometimes to determine exactly what went down. It's not like 0:11:41.005 --> 0:11:45.205 DNA would necessarily be that decisive, because all of these 0:11:45.245 --> 0:11:49.205 men's DNA was all over that house. They began searching 0:11:49.245 --> 0:11:52.285 for electronic devices. There weren't any cameras in the house, 0:11:52.765 --> 0:11:57.205 but there was something else. Victor had an Amazon Echo 0:11:57.245 --> 0:12:02.085 device with an Alexa Virtual Assistant and they were playing 0:12:02.165 --> 0:12:07.405 music through the Echo with Alexa that night. So police 0:12:07.445 --> 0:12:10.885 served multiple search warrants. They went in and took James's 0:12:10.925 --> 0:12:13.405 electronics on December second, twenty fifteen. 0:12:13.885 --> 0:12:17.365 They searched his vehicle. They searched through every. 0:12:17.125 --> 0:12:19.165 Electronic device he had at his house, and there were 0:12:19.245 --> 0:12:23.165 quite a few, including an iPhone, a MacBook Pro, several 0:12:23.165 --> 0:12:26.685 iPads and tablets, a Mac Minie, and a PS four, 0:12:27.205 --> 0:12:30.925 plus some airport time capsules. Ever since I learned about 0:12:30.925 --> 0:12:34.725 this case, it has absolutely fascinated me because I think 0:12:34.765 --> 0:12:36.485 it really goes into an area that I think is 0:12:36.485 --> 0:12:39.445 going to be hugely important in investigating cases going forward, 0:12:39.485 --> 0:12:43.205 which is the role of technology and especially how technology 0:12:43.285 --> 0:12:46.445 is moving way faster than the law and how it's applied. 0:12:47.365 --> 0:12:49.805 This was really the first case I read about where 0:12:49.805 --> 0:12:52.245 an Alexa might have potentially been a witness and a 0:12:52.285 --> 0:12:55.005 murder case, and being from Arkansas, so I say this 0:12:55.125 --> 0:12:58.165 with love. It's weird to think of Arkansas as something 0:12:58.205 --> 0:13:01.245 that's cutting edge on anything, but in some areas it is. 0:13:01.805 --> 0:13:04.845 This was the first case I ever heard of involving 0:13:04.965 --> 0:13:09.005 an Echo. The prosecutor on this case was thinking outside 0:13:09.045 --> 0:13:11.565 the box. I learned something new every day at this job, 0:13:11.565 --> 0:13:13.565 and one of the things I learned was the device 0:13:13.645 --> 0:13:16.605 itself is called an Amazon Echo. Alexa is not the 0:13:16.685 --> 0:13:18.485 name of the device, it's just the name of the 0:13:18.525 --> 0:13:21.725 actual virtual assistant. In practice, we use Echo and Alexa 0:13:21.765 --> 0:13:24.445 pretty much interchangeably, So I'm just going to refer to 0:13:24.485 --> 0:13:27.485 the device as Alexa. So as we all know now, 0:13:27.525 --> 0:13:30.685 the way that Alexa works is you say a wake word, 0:13:30.725 --> 0:13:34.085 which is normally the name Alexa or Amazon, but you 0:13:34.125 --> 0:13:36.205 can change the name to other things. So, for example, 0:13:36.245 --> 0:13:38.805 if your name is Alexa, you won't be constantly annoyed. 0:13:38.965 --> 0:13:42.485 Once it's triggered, Once the device here's the wake word, 0:13:42.565 --> 0:13:47.245 it starts recording. You see a little blue circle around 0:13:47.245 --> 0:13:51.565 the top. But sometimes it's triggered by accidents. Sometimes you 0:13:51.605 --> 0:13:54.045 say a word that sounds kind of close to alexa 0:13:54.405 --> 0:13:55.725 and the device will start recording. 0:13:55.805 --> 0:13:56.885 This happens to me all the time. 0:13:56.925 --> 0:14:01.085 By the way, Amazon has transcripts of those conversations that 0:14:01.125 --> 0:14:03.965 you're having with this device, and to be honest, it's 0:14:04.045 --> 0:14:06.805 not clear exactly what the company does with those. 0:14:06.925 --> 0:14:08.365 And if they're ever deleted. 0:14:09.205 --> 0:14:12.445 Amazon has said that quote the recordings are streamed and 0:14:12.445 --> 0:14:16.085 stored remotely and can be reviewed or deleted over. 0:14:15.885 --> 0:14:17.045 Time end quote. 0:14:17.485 --> 0:14:22.365 Honestly, that's not super reassuring. So police served a search 0:14:22.405 --> 0:14:27.405 warrant on Amazon for the content in Alexa, and it 0:14:27.525 --> 0:14:30.965 seems like their theory was the device was on and 0:14:31.045 --> 0:14:34.445 was recording, and maybe they were hoping somebody said something 0:14:34.525 --> 0:14:36.765 that sounded like the wake word and they might have 0:14:36.845 --> 0:14:38.805 gotten some inadvertent audio from that night. 0:14:40.205 --> 0:14:42.165 How ethical is it for police to do this? 0:14:42.645 --> 0:14:45.245 Tom Doton wrote an article for the Information that was 0:14:45.445 --> 0:14:48.445 very interesting and in depth talked about how the technology 0:14:48.445 --> 0:14:51.405 works and the implications for law, and I highly recommend 0:14:51.405 --> 0:14:55.205 reading it if you're interested in this case. Basically, the 0:14:55.245 --> 0:14:59.365 Bentonville Police Department wanted Amazon to give them audio recordings 0:14:59.405 --> 0:15:03.285 and transcripts that came from James Bates Echo device for 0:15:03.325 --> 0:15:05.845 a forty eight hour period of time that would the 0:15:05.925 --> 0:15:08.645 night when the alleged murder happened. They also wanted a 0:15:08.685 --> 0:15:13.365 subscriber and account information. Amazon did give the subscriber information 0:15:13.405 --> 0:15:16.765 to police, which is fairly standard, but it fought to 0:15:16.845 --> 0:15:20.645 keep those recordings private. The company refused to hand them 0:15:20.645 --> 0:15:24.205 over because they felt that demand was overly brought. This 0:15:24.285 --> 0:15:27.125 blew up into a national story and an argument over 0:15:27.165 --> 0:15:30.845 First Amendment rights. Amazon refused to hand over the recordings. 0:15:30.885 --> 0:15:34.485 They fought in court for months. According to court documents, 0:15:34.885 --> 0:15:37.525 they made the claim that data stored on the Echo 0:15:37.565 --> 0:15:41.565 device is protected by the First Amendment and privacy rights 0:15:41.605 --> 0:15:45.645 for customers. They made a really interesting argument actually, According 0:15:45.685 --> 0:15:48.365 to the Jolt Digest, which is produced by Harvard Law School, 0:15:48.685 --> 0:15:52.525 they said that quote users communications to Alexa, which include 0:15:52.565 --> 0:15:56.485 requests for expressive materials such as music, podcasts and audiobooks, 0:15:56.845 --> 0:16:00.285 should be subject to heightened First Amendment protection, similar to 0:16:00.325 --> 0:16:04.485 the treatment of physical purchase records kept by bookstores end quote. 0:16:04.605 --> 0:16:08.565 They also argued Alexa's responses to what users say should 0:16:08.565 --> 0:16:13.805 be covered under free speech law. I was really interested 0:16:13.845 --> 0:16:17.285 in seeing how this case played out. And here's where 0:16:17.325 --> 0:16:20.445 it gets even more interesting because the Alexa was not 0:16:20.565 --> 0:16:22.845 the only piece of tech that James had at home. 0:16:23.285 --> 0:16:27.045 He also had a smart water meter, and that smart 0:16:27.045 --> 0:16:29.805 water meter would lead later to one of the biggest 0:16:29.845 --> 0:16:32.365 twists in this case, one that no one saw coming. 0:16:33.205 --> 0:16:37.525 Detectives went to the Bentonville Utilities department. They asked the 0:16:37.565 --> 0:16:40.965 department to give them James Bates water usage for the 0:16:41.005 --> 0:16:44.045 times after one am, after James said he went to bed. 0:16:44.885 --> 0:16:45.445 According to the. 0:16:45.445 --> 0:16:49.325 Affidavit, the data showed that fifty gallons of water flowed 0:16:49.325 --> 0:16:52.005 out between one and two am on November twenty second, 0:16:52.325 --> 0:16:55.405 and then ninety gallons of water went out between two 0:16:55.405 --> 0:16:59.685 and three am, so that was extremely high water usage. 0:16:59.685 --> 0:17:02.685 According to police, that residence had never used that much 0:17:02.725 --> 0:17:04.965 water since October of twenty thirteen. 0:17:05.565 --> 0:17:08.125 Detectives believed that extra water. 0:17:07.965 --> 0:17:12.005 Usage between one and three am happened because someone sprayed 0:17:12.045 --> 0:17:16.805 the patio down. The fight between Amazon and the Bentonville 0:17:16.845 --> 0:17:21.965 Police went on The Bentonville Police served another warrant and 0:17:22.885 --> 0:17:26.445 Amazon doubled down. According to court documents, Amazon said, quote, 0:17:26.725 --> 0:17:30.005 given the important First Amendment and privacy implications at state, 0:17:30.365 --> 0:17:32.805 the warrant should be quashed unless the court finds the 0:17:32.845 --> 0:17:35.325 state has met its heightened burden for compelled production of 0:17:35.365 --> 0:17:39.005 such materials end quote. They also said, as a matter 0:17:39.045 --> 0:17:44.285 of course, they objected to overbroad or otherwise inappropriate demands. 0:17:44.685 --> 0:17:47.165 They doubled down and told the police department to see 0:17:47.165 --> 0:17:51.565 them in court. Meanwhile, national media, including Weis, was covering 0:17:51.565 --> 0:17:54.285 the story. They were talking about Alexa being put on 0:17:54.285 --> 0:17:58.805 the witness stand and making graphics of Alexa in a courtroom. 0:17:59.845 --> 0:18:05.005 Nathan Smith, the prosecutor, was doing interviews. The case seemed 0:18:05.005 --> 0:18:07.805 to be headed to trial, but then right before it 0:18:07.845 --> 0:18:10.605 was due to go to trial, something kind of melodramatic happened. 0:18:11.285 --> 0:18:12.765 James Bates gave his. 0:18:12.805 --> 0:18:17.045 Consent to Amazon to have the recordings released. Apparently he 0:18:17.085 --> 0:18:20.085 and his attorney felt they would help exonerate him, and 0:18:20.125 --> 0:18:23.525 according to media reports, he was right, because the prosecutor 0:18:23.525 --> 0:18:26.605 and his team did not find anything useful in those recordings. 0:18:27.325 --> 0:18:30.605 So in November of twenty seventeen, the judge in the 0:18:30.645 --> 0:18:34.285 case dismissed the charges against James Bates. He was free, 0:18:35.485 --> 0:18:39.005 but some of Victor's friends and family were not satisfied 0:18:39.045 --> 0:18:41.765 with this. They believed they did not get justice. They 0:18:41.805 --> 0:18:45.645 believed Victor had been murdered. Victor's widow, Christine, made it 0:18:45.805 --> 0:18:48.725 very clear she did not agree with this decision. She 0:18:48.845 --> 0:18:51.725 felt prosecutors should have gone forward with the evidence they had, 0:18:51.805 --> 0:18:54.725 and she told CNN quote, I had to go home 0:18:54.805 --> 0:18:57.325 last night, sit down with my children and explain to 0:18:57.365 --> 0:19:00.485 them that the person who killed their father, who prevents 0:19:00.525 --> 0:19:03.845 them from Father's Days and Christmases and a regular life, 0:19:04.445 --> 0:19:06.685 is going to continue to enjoyed those things with his 0:19:06.765 --> 0:19:10.445 family without any recourse whatsoever for what he has done 0:19:10.445 --> 0:19:15.485 to mind end quote. But the prosecutors said they really 0:19:15.525 --> 0:19:18.285 had nothing definitive. They just did not feel that they 0:19:18.325 --> 0:19:20.525 could prove this case beyond a reasonable doubt. 0:19:21.565 --> 0:19:24.045 By the way, the police and the prosecutor, Nathan Smith, 0:19:24.085 --> 0:19:26.285 were not in agreement on this. Actually. 0:19:26.365 --> 0:19:30.885 A spokesperson for the Bentonville Police Department told the Northwest 0:19:30.925 --> 0:19:34.645 Arkansas Democrat Gazette that the police believed they had enough 0:19:34.685 --> 0:19:36.805 evidence to go to trial and they were not happy 0:19:36.885 --> 0:19:40.725 with what the prosecutor's office was doing. The tension between 0:19:40.845 --> 0:19:45.285 James Bates, Victor Collins's widow, and the police department was 0:19:45.325 --> 0:19:50.125 about to get a lot worse. Several months later, Victor's widow, Christine, 0:19:50.205 --> 0:19:53.925 filed a wrongful death civil lawsuit against James in Benton 0:19:53.965 --> 0:19:58.565 County Circuit Court. In her lawsuit, which she started on 0:19:58.605 --> 0:20:02.245 behalf of Victor's estate, she claimed that James was at 0:20:02.285 --> 0:20:04.485 fault for his death. She said he provided the alcohol 0:20:04.485 --> 0:20:07.405 that Victor drank. She said at some point James drove 0:20:07.485 --> 0:20:11.925 Victor to the store and James bought more alcohol. The 0:20:11.965 --> 0:20:15.165 crux of her argument was she claimed that James had 0:20:15.205 --> 0:20:18.965 allowed Victor to consume to the point of extreme and 0:20:19.045 --> 0:20:23.445 obvious intoxication. She stated in her lawsuit that she believed 0:20:23.525 --> 0:20:25.525 that Victor and James had fought and it ended in 0:20:25.605 --> 0:20:29.125 Victor's death. She also stated she thought James was negligent 0:20:29.205 --> 0:20:32.685 to leave Victor, who was extremely intoxicated in a hot 0:20:32.685 --> 0:20:37.165 tub alone. But James hit back. He claimed that not 0:20:37.245 --> 0:20:41.645 only was Christine's lawsuit. According to his lawyer Kathleen Zelner, who, 0:20:41.685 --> 0:20:44.765 by the way, side note made headlines for taking famous cases, 0:20:44.805 --> 0:20:48.205 including Stephen Avery's, which was documented on the Netflix series 0:20:48.205 --> 0:20:52.645 Making a Murder. Kathleen Zelner said that Christine's complaint had 0:20:52.645 --> 0:20:56.965 been frivolous and completely without merit. In his lawsuit, James 0:20:57.005 --> 0:21:00.405 claimed the police department the Bentonville Police, were trying to 0:21:00.445 --> 0:21:03.405 frame him. He said that even when they realized he 0:21:03.485 --> 0:21:06.965 was not guilty, they tried to him up for murder anyway. 0:21:07.885 --> 0:21:12.885 In that lawsuit, James alleged that Bentenville police officers concealed 0:21:13.045 --> 0:21:17.085 relevant audio recordings and destroyed his phone to prevent him 0:21:17.085 --> 0:21:20.605 from obtaining information from it. Stepping back from all this 0:21:20.685 --> 0:21:23.125 legal stuff for a minute, I think that this case 0:21:23.165 --> 0:21:26.445 is very interesting for another reason besides the tech, because 0:21:26.925 --> 0:21:29.445 it really speaks to another phenomenon that I see a 0:21:29.445 --> 0:21:32.125 lot in cases like this. Again, we don't know exactly 0:21:32.125 --> 0:21:36.805 what happened. Only two people know for sure, and unfortunately 0:21:36.805 --> 0:21:39.885 one of them is dead. I will say I do 0:21:40.045 --> 0:21:42.765 find some of James's claims credible. I don't know if 0:21:42.805 --> 0:21:46.165 the police were maliciously prosecuting him, but it's true. There 0:21:46.205 --> 0:21:50.045 is this fine line sometimes between having an investigative theory 0:21:50.045 --> 0:21:52.965 and having tunnel vision, being closed minded, refusing to look 0:21:53.005 --> 0:21:55.445 at evidence that doesn't support your theory of what happens. 0:21:56.005 --> 0:21:59.485 It can be so easy for officers, even very experienced detectives, 0:21:59.525 --> 0:22:01.605 to get this type of tunnel vision. I think it's 0:22:01.685 --> 0:22:04.205 really important to always remember that. I say that to 0:22:04.245 --> 0:22:06.885 myself too always every day. Try to remember to have 0:22:06.925 --> 0:22:09.605 an open mind. You can think you know everything about 0:22:09.605 --> 0:22:12.565 a case and it can turn on a dime. Another 0:22:12.605 --> 0:22:15.165 thing that's important to remember is that for family members, 0:22:15.205 --> 0:22:17.965 it is certainly understandable and natural to want to blame 0:22:18.045 --> 0:22:21.725 someone when a family member dies, especially if police have 0:22:21.805 --> 0:22:25.365 told you things. And sometimes I know people might want 0:22:25.405 --> 0:22:28.165 to hold onto these things. But the truth is, sometimes 0:22:28.205 --> 0:22:31.485 in life things happen. People have accidents, People do drown 0:22:31.525 --> 0:22:34.125 in hot tubs. Sometimes I watch a lot of true 0:22:34.165 --> 0:22:37.205 crime and it's like I find myself thinking everyone who 0:22:37.285 --> 0:22:40.525 drowns in a hot tub or a bathtub was maybe 0:22:40.605 --> 0:22:43.765 killed by a disgruntled spouse. But that's not really the reality. 0:22:44.165 --> 0:22:46.925 There are so many accidental drownings in the United States, 0:22:47.005 --> 0:22:49.245 especially as we talked about in an episode a couple 0:22:49.285 --> 0:22:53.725 of weeks ago, for young intoxicated men. James's suit was 0:22:53.765 --> 0:22:56.405 interesting for another reason because remember when I said, in 0:22:56.405 --> 0:22:59.085 addition to the Alexa, there were more pieces of tech 0:22:59.125 --> 0:23:00.045 in James's house. 0:23:00.485 --> 0:23:01.645 Remember that water meter. 0:23:02.485 --> 0:23:06.885 James claimed that police falsified those water memeats readings. He 0:23:06.965 --> 0:23:10.765 also claimed Christine wrote a letter to the prosecutor saying 0:23:10.845 --> 0:23:13.485 James was stalking her and her children in his car, 0:23:13.965 --> 0:23:16.685 but James claimed that he was able to prove he 0:23:16.765 --> 0:23:19.125 no longer owned that car during the time period of 0:23:19.125 --> 0:23:22.965 his alleged stocking. James also filed a lawsuit against the 0:23:23.005 --> 0:23:26.485 police department, and in that lawsuit, not only did he 0:23:26.525 --> 0:23:29.125 claim that they were trying to frame him for Victor's murder, 0:23:29.485 --> 0:23:33.045 he claimed that Christine had told police she was worried 0:23:33.085 --> 0:23:37.885