WEBVTT - Charlatans & Liars.  Tim Sandefur Talks to A&G.

0:00:00.680 --> 0:00:04.320
<v Speaker 1>From the Abraham Lincoln Radio Studio and the George Washington

0:00:04.440 --> 0:00:18.200
<v Speaker 1>Broadcast Center. Strong, arm Strong and Jetty Show. Olympic ratings

0:00:18.200 --> 0:00:20.840
<v Speaker 1>are down quite a bit, although TV ratings are hard

0:00:20.880 --> 0:00:24.159
<v Speaker 1>to figure out now because um, if you if you

0:00:24.200 --> 0:00:26.320
<v Speaker 1>watch you know, when you watch a sport on your phone,

0:00:26.320 --> 0:00:29.400
<v Speaker 1>it doesn't count, and um, I don't know, it's hard

0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:31.320
<v Speaker 1>to figure out how many people actually watch stuff. I've

0:00:31.320 --> 0:00:33.840
<v Speaker 1>watched less Olympics this time around than any Olympics since

0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:37.239
<v Speaker 1>I was seven years old. I don't know if other

0:00:37.240 --> 0:00:39.080
<v Speaker 1>people are the same, but the ratings are down quite

0:00:39.120 --> 0:00:41.519
<v Speaker 1>a bit. Anyway, welcome to the program. I'm glad you hear.

0:00:41.560 --> 0:00:43.720
<v Speaker 1>You picked a good moment to tune in because everybody

0:00:43.760 --> 0:00:46.440
<v Speaker 1>likes Tim the lawyer. We call him Tim Sanderford. He's

0:00:46.479 --> 0:00:49.320
<v Speaker 1>the vice president of Litigation for the Goldwater Institute. He's

0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:51.479
<v Speaker 1>written a number of fantastic books. Will mention at the

0:00:51.520 --> 0:00:53.000
<v Speaker 1>end of this interview Suit that you can go by

0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:55.920
<v Speaker 1>them immediately. Tim, How you doing, dude? How are you

0:00:55.960 --> 0:00:58.240
<v Speaker 1>doing all right? I know you're an anti sports guy.

0:00:58.280 --> 0:01:01.840
<v Speaker 1>Are you anti Olympics? Yeah? I'm very much anti Olympics.

0:01:01.880 --> 0:01:05.240
<v Speaker 1>I cannot stand the idea that our athletes would compete

0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:10.520
<v Speaker 1>on an equal footing with enslaved children from China, and

0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:14.240
<v Speaker 1>that we would then lend the the oppressive Chinese government.

0:01:14.280 --> 0:01:18.120
<v Speaker 1>And this goes to other tyrannical governments. Also the credibility

0:01:18.240 --> 0:01:21.360
<v Speaker 1>of uh that that goes along with taking them as

0:01:21.440 --> 0:01:25.680
<v Speaker 1>an equal. It's disgraceful, disgraceful to me to see these athletes,

0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:28.840
<v Speaker 1>our athletes got there and worked their their whole lives

0:01:29.200 --> 0:01:32.000
<v Speaker 1>to pursue a dream on the same balance beam with

0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:35.640
<v Speaker 1>children who are forced into virtual slavery by a totalitarian

0:01:35.640 --> 0:01:39.880
<v Speaker 1>government overseas and and compelled to compete on pain of punishment,

0:01:39.920 --> 0:01:42.399
<v Speaker 1>as if that's somehow the same thing. No, I think

0:01:42.400 --> 0:01:45.800
<v Speaker 1>the Olympics should be abolished immediately. Wow, there you go, strong,

0:01:46.040 --> 0:01:49.840
<v Speaker 1>strong opinion from Tim Sanderford. I'll tell you, I'm shocked

0:01:50.400 --> 0:01:52.760
<v Speaker 1>that this whole because the Olympics are supposed to be

0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:57.600
<v Speaker 1>in China right after you know, next year Winter two,

0:01:57.720 --> 0:01:59.960
<v Speaker 1>So not that farman. I can't believe that that had

0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:02.240
<v Speaker 1>have been canceled, that all of the good countries of

0:02:02.280 --> 0:02:04.120
<v Speaker 1>the world haven't pulled out yet they were still acting

0:02:04.160 --> 0:02:06.720
<v Speaker 1>like that's gonna happen. Uh, Like I'm okay with the

0:02:06.840 --> 0:02:09.480
<v Speaker 1>Olympics happening in Japan right now, And uh, I get

0:02:09.520 --> 0:02:12.640
<v Speaker 1>what you just said, but um, there's no way we

0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:15.160
<v Speaker 1>can send an Olympic team to China and let them

0:02:15.160 --> 0:02:19.160
<v Speaker 1>have that platform to show off the city of Beijing. Yeah,

0:02:19.240 --> 0:02:21.280
<v Speaker 1>I would think. You know, the original Olympics, the whole

0:02:21.280 --> 0:02:24.000
<v Speaker 1>idea when it was recreated in the nineteenth century was

0:02:24.000 --> 0:02:25.320
<v Speaker 1>that we were going to have you know, it would

0:02:25.320 --> 0:02:28.040
<v Speaker 1>be for peace, for world peace, and everybody would drop

0:02:28.040 --> 0:02:31.239
<v Speaker 1>politics and just compete together and forget their political differences.

0:02:31.520 --> 0:02:33.639
<v Speaker 1>But the one because it's all about politics now, it's

0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:38.679
<v Speaker 1>just prestige competitions between governments that want to pound themselves

0:02:38.680 --> 0:02:40.640
<v Speaker 1>on the chest and say how great and bold they

0:02:40.680 --> 0:02:44.519
<v Speaker 1>are when back home they're throwing their people into concentration

0:02:44.639 --> 0:02:47.560
<v Speaker 1>camps and forcing them to make wallets for for uh

0:02:48.280 --> 0:02:51.160
<v Speaker 1>sale overseas. No, it's just just just as graceful. It

0:02:51.200 --> 0:02:53.560
<v Speaker 1>should be completely ended. Both it makes you feeling better.

0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:56.960
<v Speaker 1>Our US men's basketball team beat Iran by fifty points yesterday,

0:02:56.960 --> 0:03:03.640
<v Speaker 1>so you know that does make me feel better. I

0:03:03.800 --> 0:03:06.360
<v Speaker 1>kind of feel like this is well trodden ground, but

0:03:06.400 --> 0:03:08.720
<v Speaker 1>it keeps popping up, and I know it's going to

0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:12.240
<v Speaker 1>end up in schools around the country the sixteen nineteen project.

0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:16.280
<v Speaker 1>You have written eloquently on this, you've spoken uh forcefully

0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:18.520
<v Speaker 1>on this. Could you give us kind of a short

0:03:18.680 --> 0:03:21.520
<v Speaker 1>version for people who don't know what the sixteen nineteen

0:03:21.560 --> 0:03:24.760
<v Speaker 1>project is, because again, they might be teaching to your schools,

0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:27.640
<v Speaker 1>in your schools if your kids are allowed to go

0:03:27.680 --> 0:03:29.799
<v Speaker 1>back to school this year, which is a different topic,

0:03:30.080 --> 0:03:32.040
<v Speaker 1>but they might be teaching to your your kids this year.

0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:36.200
<v Speaker 1>What is it and what's the many flaws? Well, it's

0:03:36.200 --> 0:03:39.960
<v Speaker 1>in the same way that that critical race theory is

0:03:40.080 --> 0:03:43.640
<v Speaker 1>both the st project is very vague in certain crucial ways.

0:03:43.880 --> 0:03:47.520
<v Speaker 1>So it's supposed to be about trying to emphasize black

0:03:47.640 --> 0:03:51.520
<v Speaker 1>history more, to talk about the consequences of slavery, more

0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:55.520
<v Speaker 1>to talk about the ways in which the discrimination after

0:03:55.560 --> 0:04:00.480
<v Speaker 1>the Civil War perpetuated racial and inequalities, and and the

0:04:00.480 --> 0:04:04.720
<v Speaker 1>heroic stories of the people who triumphed over those those obstacles.

0:04:04.920 --> 0:04:07.160
<v Speaker 1>And in that sense, that's great. But then when you

0:04:07.200 --> 0:04:09.360
<v Speaker 1>start reading the text, you find that it goes further

0:04:09.440 --> 0:04:12.560
<v Speaker 1>and it makes certain claims about the nature of the

0:04:12.680 --> 0:04:18.000
<v Speaker 1>United States and says that America was founded on slavery,

0:04:18.040 --> 0:04:23.719
<v Speaker 1>that what makes America essential is the existence of slavery,

0:04:23.760 --> 0:04:25.960
<v Speaker 1>and that the American Revolution was fought in order to

0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:29.599
<v Speaker 1>perpetuate slavery, and that the Constitution was written in order

0:04:29.640 --> 0:04:33.400
<v Speaker 1>to protect slavery. And those are all factually false and

0:04:33.600 --> 0:04:37.320
<v Speaker 1>really dangerous propositions to be teaching children, to tell them

0:04:37.600 --> 0:04:43.160
<v Speaker 1>that they were and remain fundamentally excluded from the American Dream.

0:04:43.200 --> 0:04:45.719
<v Speaker 1>It's contrary, for one thing, it's contrary to the views

0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:47.720
<v Speaker 1>of those who fought for civil rights just in the

0:04:47.760 --> 0:04:51.320
<v Speaker 1>nineteen sixties, who insisted no black Americans are entitled to

0:04:51.880 --> 0:04:54.560
<v Speaker 1>participate in the American Dream. They have as much legitimate

0:04:54.560 --> 0:04:56.800
<v Speaker 1>claim to the Declaration, and the and the Constitution as

0:04:56.839 --> 0:05:00.360
<v Speaker 1>anybody else does. But the sixty nineteen project idea oology

0:05:00.400 --> 0:05:03.839
<v Speaker 1>turns that backwards and says, no, this isn't always has

0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:08.160
<v Speaker 1>been a white supremacist nation. And of course those white

0:05:08.160 --> 0:05:11.040
<v Speaker 1>supremacists out there they applaud that, they say, yeah, right,

0:05:11.120 --> 0:05:13.679
<v Speaker 1>you know so, I think I think in that sense

0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:17.640
<v Speaker 1>plays into the hands of the white racists who would

0:05:17.640 --> 0:05:21.200
<v Speaker 1>say that this country was and remains for whites only,

0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:25.320
<v Speaker 1>whether it's the sixteen nineteen project or a variety of

0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:28.240
<v Speaker 1>other things, that we're we're constantly talking about now and

0:05:28.240 --> 0:05:31.279
<v Speaker 1>and teaching in schools or you know, become the hot

0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:36.240
<v Speaker 1>topic of the day. Has has any nation ever in

0:05:36.279 --> 0:05:39.840
<v Speaker 1>its history turns so self hating as the United States has,

0:05:39.920 --> 0:05:42.039
<v Speaker 1>or at least segments of the United States, I don't

0:05:42.160 --> 0:05:45.760
<v Speaker 1>know of it. It's really weird. Well, there was the

0:05:45.880 --> 0:05:50.160
<v Speaker 1>nihilist movement in Russia in about nineteen hundred, uh, you know,

0:05:50.160 --> 0:05:53.599
<v Speaker 1>which set the stage for terrible things that followed. Yeah,

0:05:53.680 --> 0:05:56.919
<v Speaker 1>I think there there have been times when nations have

0:05:57.040 --> 0:05:59.280
<v Speaker 1>been this kind of self critical. But you're right that

0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:04.040
<v Speaker 1>this goes beyond self critical. This goes into genuine self hatred,

0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:09.279
<v Speaker 1>which tells people that there is no greater purpose to

0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:11.640
<v Speaker 1>the American dream. And you know, in fact, and this

0:06:11.720 --> 0:06:15.480
<v Speaker 1>is this is what inspired my article. Was was Nicoleheannah Jones,

0:06:15.800 --> 0:06:19.800
<v Speaker 1>who is the charlatan behind nineteen project. And charlatan is

0:06:19.800 --> 0:06:24.200
<v Speaker 1>a perfectly uh the right word to use, because they've

0:06:24.240 --> 0:06:27.239
<v Speaker 1>retracted or she's walked back a whole bunch of different

0:06:27.279 --> 0:06:31.320
<v Speaker 1>stuff from that bride winning article without admitting it, without

0:06:31.320 --> 0:06:33.919
<v Speaker 1>acknowledging it, They've erased it without saying that they've changed it,

0:06:33.920 --> 0:06:37.000
<v Speaker 1>which is charlatan is um And when challenged on her

0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:40.400
<v Speaker 1>historical claims, she resorts to accusing her critics of racism

0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:43.080
<v Speaker 1>instead of responding to them on the on the merits.

0:06:43.160 --> 0:06:46.920
<v Speaker 1>So that's the that's the the surefire sign of a Charlottean,

0:06:47.360 --> 0:06:51.240
<v Speaker 1>so her she said in at one point defending herself,

0:06:51.360 --> 0:06:55.360
<v Speaker 1>she said, well, this was all about about a narrative,

0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:58.520
<v Speaker 1>about telling a narrative about American history. This isn't supposed

0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:02.279
<v Speaker 1>to be factual. We're this is about creating a story

0:07:02.360 --> 0:07:05.640
<v Speaker 1>about America. Well we all knew that that that that's

0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:07.479
<v Speaker 1>the whole point. And what it was is it's an

0:07:07.480 --> 0:07:11.520
<v Speaker 1>alternative theory of what the American dream is, the alternative

0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:14.600
<v Speaker 1>to that which is articulated in the Declaration of Independence.

0:07:14.640 --> 0:07:17.000
<v Speaker 1>That's what it is is. It was an attempt to

0:07:17.040 --> 0:07:20.600
<v Speaker 1>say the Declaration of Independence is a lie and was

0:07:20.680 --> 0:07:23.760
<v Speaker 1>written by liars, and that in fact, not all men

0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:27.560
<v Speaker 1>are created equal, and that in fact, the Constitution's authors

0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:29.720
<v Speaker 1>did not really mean this. Now, as I said, they're

0:07:29.760 --> 0:07:32.280
<v Speaker 1>very vague about this. So the authors of the project

0:07:32.320 --> 0:07:34.000
<v Speaker 1>are very vague about this. So then they'll turn around

0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:36.080
<v Speaker 1>and say, no, no, we're saying that they that these

0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:38.600
<v Speaker 1>were noble ideals, but they didn't really live up to them.

0:07:38.640 --> 0:07:40.880
<v Speaker 1>But that's a very different thing than saying what they

0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:44.800
<v Speaker 1>actually say, which is that these ideals were were false

0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:48.200
<v Speaker 1>from the beginning, which is a quotation from the from

0:07:48.200 --> 0:07:52.440
<v Speaker 1>the project. So it's vague on purpose in order to

0:07:52.480 --> 0:07:55.840
<v Speaker 1>allow them to to make assertions about America being evil

0:07:56.080 --> 0:07:57.960
<v Speaker 1>and then when they're called on it, to dance back

0:07:58.000 --> 0:08:00.000
<v Speaker 1>across the line and say, no, no, we're just saying

0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:01.960
<v Speaker 1>that America was great in theory, but people fail to

0:08:02.000 --> 0:08:05.400
<v Speaker 1>live up to the noble ideals. But that's not what

0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:09.680
<v Speaker 1>they're really doing. For for so many, um, particularly academics

0:08:09.720 --> 0:08:11.640
<v Speaker 1>in this in this country, and then a lot of

0:08:11.640 --> 0:08:14.520
<v Speaker 1>the students that they're teaching the nation, were like a

0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:18.400
<v Speaker 1>human being that has gone from ignoring all our flaws

0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:22.920
<v Speaker 1>and being uh, you know, pompous and a little deluded

0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:26.320
<v Speaker 1>as to uh to to uh you know where we

0:08:26.360 --> 0:08:28.480
<v Speaker 1>fit in in terms of good and bad to like

0:08:28.600 --> 0:08:30.320
<v Speaker 1>all we do now is we're like a person that

0:08:30.360 --> 0:08:33.800
<v Speaker 1>only emphasizes their failures and walks around saying, nobody could

0:08:33.800 --> 0:08:35.480
<v Speaker 1>ever love me, nobody should ever love me. I'm a

0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:38.840
<v Speaker 1>bad person. It's just so weird, that's right, And there's

0:08:38.840 --> 0:08:41.320
<v Speaker 1>a rhetorical strategy behind this on the part of those

0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:43.640
<v Speaker 1>who are propagating it, and that is, if you want

0:08:43.640 --> 0:08:46.080
<v Speaker 1>to destroy great ideals, the first thing to do is

0:08:46.080 --> 0:08:50.200
<v Speaker 1>to destroy idealism outright, or to elevate things that are

0:08:50.200 --> 0:08:52.680
<v Speaker 1>not really ideal to the status of ideals in order

0:08:52.720 --> 0:08:57.320
<v Speaker 1>to obscure the desire, the aspiration for truth and goodness.

0:08:57.559 --> 0:08:59.000
<v Speaker 1>You tell people that there is no such thing as

0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:01.800
<v Speaker 1>truth and goodness, or that things that are not true

0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:03.640
<v Speaker 1>and are not good are really true and good, in

0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:06.880
<v Speaker 1>order to confuse them. And that's the strategy. That's similar

0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:09.760
<v Speaker 1>strategy is that played with with critical race theory. Critical

0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:13.280
<v Speaker 1>race theory says that there is systemic racism and that

0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:16.640
<v Speaker 1>we should pay attention to systemic racism. What but but

0:09:16.720 --> 0:09:19.440
<v Speaker 1>the ambiguity here is what do we mean by system?

0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:23.040
<v Speaker 1>What system exactly are we're talking about some If you're

0:09:23.040 --> 0:09:25.400
<v Speaker 1>talking about something like let's say the drug war, well,

0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:27.200
<v Speaker 1>you know there are ways in which the drug war

0:09:27.400 --> 0:09:30.560
<v Speaker 1>has racist elements to it from its history and and

0:09:30.600 --> 0:09:35.400
<v Speaker 1>the way it's enforest and so powder cocaine that, and

0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:38.120
<v Speaker 1>we can have that discussion absolutely. But if what you

0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:42.200
<v Speaker 1>mean by system is say capitalism, then we have a

0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:45.920
<v Speaker 1>very different story that capitalism is not inherently racist. Capitalism

0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:48.880
<v Speaker 1>is the greatest boon ever enjoyed by racial minorities in

0:09:48.920 --> 0:09:53.880
<v Speaker 1>the history of the species. So it's it's carefully designed

0:09:53.880 --> 0:09:56.800
<v Speaker 1>to be ambiguous so that when people say systemic, what

0:09:56.840 --> 0:09:58.400
<v Speaker 1>they mean is the same thing that the hippies meant

0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:03.839
<v Speaker 1>when they said the establishment right right exactly at the piece.

0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:07.320
<v Speaker 1>I like it when you mentioned the Hippies Olympics hating

0:10:07.320 --> 0:10:10.040
<v Speaker 1>Tim sander for on the line. Um, So if sixteen

0:10:10.120 --> 0:10:13.000
<v Speaker 1>nineteen project comes up in your school, like you find

0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:14.720
<v Speaker 1>out your kids are being taught that, I'll tell you what.

0:10:14.800 --> 0:10:17.679
<v Speaker 1>Google sixteen nineteen project and Tim Sanderford's name, and you'll

0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:19.360
<v Speaker 1>come up with some of the stuff that he has written,

0:10:19.480 --> 0:10:21.559
<v Speaker 1>and you'll have the ammunition you need to fight back

0:10:21.600 --> 0:10:23.880
<v Speaker 1>against your school board. Now, Tim, if you can hang

0:10:23.880 --> 0:10:25.120
<v Speaker 1>around for a little bit, I got a couple of

0:10:25.160 --> 0:10:27.200
<v Speaker 1>questions because you are one of the You're one of

0:10:27.240 --> 0:10:31.480
<v Speaker 1>America's leading finkers on freedom. According to George will of

0:10:31.480 --> 0:10:34.800
<v Speaker 1>the Washington Post, you're an American treasure. So a lot

0:10:34.840 --> 0:10:38.120
<v Speaker 1>of people out there haven't gotten the vaccine. I didn't

0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:40.880
<v Speaker 1>see that coming. I thought we were going to, you know,

0:10:41.440 --> 0:10:43.840
<v Speaker 1>race to figure out a vaccine, come up with a vaccine,

0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:45.679
<v Speaker 1>figure out how to get it out, and people got

0:10:45.720 --> 0:10:47.720
<v Speaker 1>and get vaccinated. I didn't I didn't really see this

0:10:47.760 --> 0:10:50.120
<v Speaker 1>coming that there would be a pretty big chunk of

0:10:50.120 --> 0:10:53.080
<v Speaker 1>the country that decided they didn't want to get the vaccine. Now,

0:10:53.640 --> 0:10:56.040
<v Speaker 1>you're your lefty media really likes to make it all

0:10:56.080 --> 0:11:01.320
<v Speaker 1>about dumb white Trump voters, and and uh and uh,

0:11:01.360 --> 0:11:03.439
<v Speaker 1>there are an awful lot of other people that aren't

0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:08.400
<v Speaker 1>getting the vaccine. Also, for instance, of New York City's

0:11:08.600 --> 0:11:12.320
<v Speaker 1>Department of Education employees aren't vaccinated. I doubt many of

0:11:12.320 --> 0:11:15.040
<v Speaker 1>those were Trump voters. And there are a lot of

0:11:15.080 --> 0:11:18.440
<v Speaker 1>examples of that in big cities across the country. And uh,

0:11:18.600 --> 0:11:22.480
<v Speaker 1>for instance, um, African American men are as a percentage,

0:11:23.720 --> 0:11:26.920
<v Speaker 1>they as a group of people aren't getting the vaccination

0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:29.640
<v Speaker 1>in the highest numbers. So um. So there's a lot

0:11:29.679 --> 0:11:32.000
<v Speaker 1>of talk now of forcing people to do it. You're

0:11:32.000 --> 0:11:34.520
<v Speaker 1>a libertarian with the great thinkers in America. Where do

0:11:34.559 --> 0:11:38.160
<v Speaker 1>you come down on the government forcing people to get vaccinated? Well,

0:11:38.200 --> 0:11:40.800
<v Speaker 1>the libertarian principle is that it should be up to

0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:44.559
<v Speaker 1>the property owner whether to require somebody to have the

0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:47.280
<v Speaker 1>vaccine before going on his property. If I'm a homeowner

0:11:47.320 --> 0:11:50.040
<v Speaker 1>and somebody didn't come and have dinner at my house,

0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:52.640
<v Speaker 1>I have the right to say you can't come over

0:11:52.679 --> 0:11:55.280
<v Speaker 1>to my house if you don't have a vaccine. Same

0:11:55.320 --> 0:11:57.560
<v Speaker 1>thing if I'm a business owner or whatever. So the

0:11:57.640 --> 0:12:00.120
<v Speaker 1>libertarian answer is that it's a question of prior at

0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:02.400
<v Speaker 1>property rights, and that leaves people free to decide for

0:12:02.440 --> 0:12:04.760
<v Speaker 1>themselves whether to get the vaccine and come over to

0:12:04.760 --> 0:12:06.839
<v Speaker 1>my house or not get the vaccine and not come

0:12:06.840 --> 0:12:10.120
<v Speaker 1>over to my house. So the problem that we have

0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:12.960
<v Speaker 1>is that we've reduced the rights of property and business

0:12:12.960 --> 0:12:16.880
<v Speaker 1>owners so drastically in today's world that people feel like

0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:18.760
<v Speaker 1>they have to look to the government to tell give

0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:25.960
<v Speaker 1>them guidance on on questions that ought to be individual choices. So, um, well, okay,

0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:29.520
<v Speaker 1>well back to their does the federal government if if

0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:31.440
<v Speaker 1>they're going to start if the government's going to start

0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:33.600
<v Speaker 1>mandating this, is this a federal government thing? Is state

0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:35.520
<v Speaker 1>government thing? Who has got the power to even do this?

0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:38.960
<v Speaker 1>It should well, As with everything having to do with

0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:41.920
<v Speaker 1>health and safety, it's primarily a state matter. And and

0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:44.640
<v Speaker 1>that's another thing where we've diverged so much from what

0:12:44.679 --> 0:12:47.000
<v Speaker 1>the Constitution actually requires by giving so much power to

0:12:47.000 --> 0:12:49.200
<v Speaker 1>the federal government, when in fact this should be a

0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:51.720
<v Speaker 1>question that decided at the state level. So for like

0:12:51.760 --> 0:12:54.240
<v Speaker 1>my school, everybody knows who's got kids in school. There

0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:55.760
<v Speaker 1>are a number of shots that you have to get

0:12:55.800 --> 0:12:58.720
<v Speaker 1>to attend a public school. Is that a is that

0:12:58.760 --> 0:13:01.560
<v Speaker 1>a county Bay county thing that is informed by the

0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:05.320
<v Speaker 1>federal government, or is that a federal mandate under existing law,

0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:09.200
<v Speaker 1>it's probably a thing where the the school district gets

0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:11.720
<v Speaker 1>funding from the Feds, and in exchange for that funding,

0:13:11.720 --> 0:13:13.200
<v Speaker 1>you have to agree to a whole bunch of things.

0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:16.840
<v Speaker 1>That's the way most federal control has expanded in the

0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:19.960
<v Speaker 1>in the twentie and early twenty one century is by

0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:22.000
<v Speaker 1>the Feds coming along and saying, well, well, we'll give

0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:24.400
<v Speaker 1>you this this grant, but you have to agree to

0:13:24.440 --> 0:13:27.280
<v Speaker 1>follow our rules if you if you receive the grant,

0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:29.640
<v Speaker 1>and of course you can't really refuse the grant because

0:13:29.760 --> 0:13:32.319
<v Speaker 1>that's your tax money. They've taken that money from you already,

0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:34.360
<v Speaker 1>and they say, we'll give you your tax money back

0:13:34.679 --> 0:13:36.680
<v Speaker 1>if you agree to these rules, and so you know,

0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:38.480
<v Speaker 1>you don't really have a choice about the matter. But

0:13:38.520 --> 0:13:41.160
<v Speaker 1>that's the way most federal mandates are imposed now is

0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:42.760
<v Speaker 1>I know how you feel about a lot of the

0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:45.320
<v Speaker 1>business shutdowns and school shutdowns and everything like that. But

0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:47.880
<v Speaker 1>as an individual, and you've got you know, as much

0:13:47.920 --> 0:13:50.880
<v Speaker 1>bona fights as anybody I know in America in terms

0:13:50.960 --> 0:13:53.559
<v Speaker 1>of libertarian freedom. You know, on my own person, the

0:13:53.600 --> 0:13:56.240
<v Speaker 1>government can't make me do things, blah blah blah. Have

0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:59.960
<v Speaker 1>you felt like the line was crossed for you personally

0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:02.200
<v Speaker 1>and wearing masks or vaccines or anything at any point

0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:05.959
<v Speaker 1>during this pandemic? Not really, No, But remember that I

0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:08.520
<v Speaker 1>I I reside in Arizona, which had a very different

0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:12.240
<v Speaker 1>restaurant to to the pandemic than California did. In California,

0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:15.480
<v Speaker 1>have Governor Newso basically declaring one man rule, even though

0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:18.280
<v Speaker 1>the state legislature is in session now and could make

0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:20.040
<v Speaker 1>the rules, he decides, No, No, I'm going to make

0:14:20.080 --> 0:14:23.000
<v Speaker 1>the rules for everybody unilaterally and impose those on everybody.

0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:25.240
<v Speaker 1>That was very different than the way our state did it,

0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:29.080
<v Speaker 1>which was our governor asked people to stay home for

0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:31.560
<v Speaker 1>a while and then asked them to remain safe, and

0:14:31.600 --> 0:14:35.400
<v Speaker 1>then local governments, counties I had the primary responsibility for

0:14:35.440 --> 0:14:38.920
<v Speaker 1>setting safety rules for how businesses should operate. So I

0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:41.040
<v Speaker 1>just have two minutes left, and this just came up

0:14:41.040 --> 0:14:42.680
<v Speaker 1>in my own real life, and I want to ask

0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:44.320
<v Speaker 1>you about this because you know a lot about the

0:14:44.360 --> 0:14:46.800
<v Speaker 1>Second Amendment. So I wanted to buy some ammunition the

0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:48.440
<v Speaker 1>other day. I already own a gun, but I wanted

0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:50.400
<v Speaker 1>to buy bullets, and I went to the local Big five,

0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:51.920
<v Speaker 1>and at least in the county in the state that

0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:54.960
<v Speaker 1>I live in, the amount of paperwork that they handed

0:14:54.960 --> 0:14:56.440
<v Speaker 1>me and the number of things that I had to

0:14:56.480 --> 0:15:00.200
<v Speaker 1>do to just buy some bullets was freaking unbelievable. How

0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:04.280
<v Speaker 1>expensive it is the paperwork for the basic background check

0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:07.520
<v Speaker 1>for buying bullets. Um, I have to find my birth

0:15:07.560 --> 0:15:10.000
<v Speaker 1>certificate that I've got somewhere in a box or whatever.

0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:13.040
<v Speaker 1>How does this stop violate my Second Amendment right to

0:15:13.560 --> 0:15:16.240
<v Speaker 1>keep in bear arms? Oh? Of course it violates your

0:15:16.240 --> 0:15:18.920
<v Speaker 1>Second Amendment rights. It's death by a thousand cuts, or

0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:21.640
<v Speaker 1>or as they say, being nibbled to death by ducks. Right.

0:15:21.720 --> 0:15:25.360
<v Speaker 1>The state biocrats know perfectly well how to make life

0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:27.720
<v Speaker 1>difficult for you. And then they can say, well, we're

0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:29.480
<v Speaker 1>not denying you, We're just saying you have to fill

0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:31.560
<v Speaker 1>out yet another form and you have to wait another

0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:34.080
<v Speaker 1>six months or we at the Goldwater Institute actually have

0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:37.440
<v Speaker 1>are suing the state of Illinois for failing to issue

0:15:37.520 --> 0:15:40.640
<v Speaker 1>people the permits to which they are legally entitled to

0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:43.400
<v Speaker 1>have to hold firearms. Even the state law says that

0:15:43.440 --> 0:15:46.400
<v Speaker 1>there's a deadline for the estate to decide whether to

0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:49.040
<v Speaker 1>give you or denying the permit. Instead, they just completely

0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:51.640
<v Speaker 1>ignore this deadline and take years sometimes to decide whether

0:15:51.720 --> 0:15:54.560
<v Speaker 1>or not to give you your firearms permit. Meanwhile, you

0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:59.120
<v Speaker 1>have dangerous riots in Chicago and people want firearms to

0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:01.680
<v Speaker 1>protect themselves, and the state says, oh, no, you you

0:16:01.840 --> 0:16:03.840
<v Speaker 1>you have to fill out yet another form and wait

0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:06.440
<v Speaker 1>another six months. Uh, you know, rely on the police.

0:16:07.200 --> 0:16:10.000
<v Speaker 1>We are unfortunately out of time. Tim, and I really

0:16:10.040 --> 0:16:12.120
<v Speaker 1>appreciate everything you had to say today. I'm gonna pump

0:16:12.120 --> 0:16:13.240
<v Speaker 1>your bucks. You want to come back and get