WEBVTT - The PGA Tour, Presented by Saudi Arabia 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.520 I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. 0:00:02.640 --> 0:00:04.920 When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. 0:00:05.040 --> 0:00:05.960 And when I find my. 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:09.640 Ball in a brid Egg Frida Egg, the Friday Frida Egg. 0:00:11.160 --> 0:00:12.080 Bride Egg Lie. 0:00:11.920 --> 0:00:14.120 I'm about ready to run off the golf course. 0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:38.920 Welcome back to another edition of the Friday Egg Podcast. 0:00:39.760 --> 0:00:44.360 WHOA What a Day? What an announcement on Tuesday. 0:00:45.159 --> 0:00:48.360 This is one of the biggest stories ever in the 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:53.560 history of golf. The PGA Tour, the dp World Tour, 0:00:54.080 --> 0:00:57.720 and the Saudi Sovereign Wealth Fund the p i F 0:00:58.440 --> 0:01:04.160 the PIFF Fund have announced a partnership. Let's get into 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:06.440 some of the specifics. I have brought on a couple 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:11.200 esteemed guests. I've got Joe Ogilvie, who was gracious enough 0:01:11.240 --> 0:01:13.399 to take some time out. We had him on earlier 0:01:13.440 --> 0:01:17.759 this year. He was a member of the PGA Tourist 0:01:17.800 --> 0:01:21.160 Policy Board as a player as well as the pack 0:01:21.440 --> 0:01:26.520 so I'm excited for his insights into, you know, the 0:01:26.640 --> 0:01:28.440 deal and and kind of we can get into the 0:01:28.520 --> 0:01:31.840 nitty gritty there, as well as Joseph Lamania. We talk 0:01:31.920 --> 0:01:34.600 a lot about where we could see this thing going, 0:01:34.720 --> 0:01:37.640 where we would hope it would go on the back 0:01:37.680 --> 0:01:41.800 half of this podcast, So big podcast. What I wanted 0:01:41.840 --> 0:01:44.039 to do was knock out some of the nuts and 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:48.600 bolts of this Will Knights did a great little synopsis 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:52.000 of the of the nuts and bolts for our newsletter 0:01:52.280 --> 0:01:55.240 on Wednesday morning. If you don't sign if you haven't 0:01:55.240 --> 0:01:55.720 signed up. 0:01:55.640 --> 0:01:58.760 For our free newsletter, do that. You can do it 0:01:58.800 --> 0:01:59.840 at the Frida egg dot com. 0:01:59.880 --> 0:02:02.080 But let's just go through some nuts of bolts so 0:02:02.120 --> 0:02:04.720 we don't have to go through that with our guests. 0:02:05.960 --> 0:02:10.400 What was announced so CNBC reported that the PGA Tour 0:02:10.400 --> 0:02:14.400 would combine with Live Golf. A taped interview with PGA 0:02:14.520 --> 0:02:19.640 Tour Commissioner j Monahan and PIFF Governor Yasir Al Ramayon 0:02:20.840 --> 0:02:26.160 was then shown where they explained the deal. Afterwards, humorously, 0:02:26.280 --> 0:02:30.359 J Monahan said he trusted Yasser after ten minutes, you know, 0:02:30.600 --> 0:02:34.960 saying down with you know that's gotten battered around. Shortly afterwards, 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:37.560 the PGA Tour sent out a press release that said 0:02:37.560 --> 0:02:40.360 the PGA Tour dep World Tour in Saudi Arabian Public 0:02:40.440 --> 0:02:45.560 Investment Fund have formed a landmark agreement to unify the. 0:02:45.520 --> 0:02:46.240 Game of golf. 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:50.680 So this was talked about as a merger. It's not 0:02:50.840 --> 0:02:54.280 exactly a merger obviously, This is a framework deal. The 0:02:54.360 --> 0:02:57.399 general consensus is that live players will fold back into 0:02:57.440 --> 0:03:02.280 the PGA Tour structure in some manner. J Monahan did 0:03:02.320 --> 0:03:05.200 say that he doesn't expect Live Golf to continue to 0:03:05.240 --> 0:03:08.679 exist in his current form. What does the new structure 0:03:08.720 --> 0:03:12.000 look like? According to a press release, the new structure 0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:15.200 will combine the commercial businesses and rights of all the 0:03:15.240 --> 0:03:19.880 parties into one collectively owned, for profit organization. This is 0:03:19.919 --> 0:03:23.520 a big deal. PGA Tour will go to a for 0:03:23.600 --> 0:03:28.720 profit organization. PGA Tour Inc. Will continue to operate as 0:03:28.760 --> 0:03:33.320 a nonprofit separate from the new LLC that will include 0:03:33.320 --> 0:03:37.520 the PGA Tour, dep World Tour, and the PITH. This 0:03:37.600 --> 0:03:43.040 new entity will receive capital investment from the PITH. As 0:03:43.080 --> 0:03:46.280 to what the calendar will look like now and how 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:49.600 much PIF funding will provide or Team Golf would be involved, 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:52.560 we don't know. We'll talk about that stuff in the POD. 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:56.520 The press release states the PGA Tour, DP World Tour 0:03:56.560 --> 0:03:59.560 and PIF will work together to best feature and grow 0:03:59.600 --> 0:04:03.360 Team go Off going forward. But we have not heard 0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:06.280 a lot of details. Not a lot of people knew 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:09.640 about this. It seems as though the group that was 0:04:09.680 --> 0:04:13.680 working on the deal was very, very small. It was 0:04:13.800 --> 0:04:18.680 Jay Monahan, Ed Harriley, and Jimmy Dunn from the PGA 0:04:18.760 --> 0:04:22.000 Tour side, obviously, then you have Keith Pelly and Yasser 0:04:22.440 --> 0:04:26.360 from the PITH. The vast majority of PGA Tour players 0:04:26.360 --> 0:04:29.720 and Live players, including the likes of Tiger and Rory, 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:32.800 were made aware of the deal Tuesday morning. Rory in 0:04:32.839 --> 0:04:35.240 his press conference talked about how he knew talks were 0:04:35.279 --> 0:04:38.599 going on, but he heard right when the rest of 0:04:38.600 --> 0:04:41.920 the world heard. Greg Norman from Live humorously did not 0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:47.000 know he was told just before this CNBC interview. The 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:52.440 PGA Tour TV partners unaware of it, the sponsors unaware 0:04:52.440 --> 0:04:56.119 of it. Nobody knew this was coming, and that leaves 0:04:56.240 --> 0:04:58.440 things just up in flux, which makes this such a 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:03.400 compelling period of time. The PGA Tour players a wide 0:05:03.480 --> 0:05:05.920 range of reactions. A lot of them were not happy. 0:05:06.279 --> 0:05:09.120 There were reports they had a players only meeting with 0:05:09.400 --> 0:05:12.360 Jay Monahan that the temperature of the room was quite hot, 0:05:12.839 --> 0:05:16.120 so they kind of feel betrayed and manipulated. I think 0:05:16.160 --> 0:05:18.600 that's a big piece of this puzzle is you know, 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:23.200 the players that were loyal to the PGA Tour did 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:26.479 not take the live money, are kind of out in 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:31.159 the cold. And obviously, I think from you know, beyond 0:05:31.160 --> 0:05:35.040 the players, from a fan perspective, there is a lot 0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:40.760 of angst and anger. Obviously one of the things J 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:44.719 Monahan comes out of this looking terrible. I mean, he 0:05:44.960 --> 0:05:50.800 was a year ago pledging for people's support, reminding people 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:53.880 of the nine to eleven families, using the you know, 0:05:54.240 --> 0:06:00.240 kind of inhumane things that Saudi Arabia has done, the 0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:02.719 human rights aspect as well as the nine to eleven 0:06:02.839 --> 0:06:08.720 aspect as his as his defense as to why players 0:06:08.839 --> 0:06:12.880 should stay, why fans should you know, be PGA Tour fans, 0:06:13.080 --> 0:06:16.960 And now a year later he is partnering with that 0:06:17.080 --> 0:06:21.160 same organization that he was condemning. I think it's a 0:06:22.360 --> 0:06:24.800 it's a challenging day. It's a it's one of those 0:06:24.920 --> 0:06:28.960 days where you know, there's so many layers to this 0:06:29.160 --> 0:06:33.960 and different aspects of it. But from a J Monahan perspective, 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:38.120 a certainly a legacy day for him, and the legacy 0:06:38.200 --> 0:06:43.680 is going to be this, uh, this idea of him 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:46.279 backing himself into a corner where he had no out 0:06:46.560 --> 0:06:51.920 except for this and his the hypocrisy of his statements. 0:06:52.480 --> 0:06:54.680 You know, we'll see where this goes. 0:06:54.800 --> 0:06:59.320 But I think that in general, with this and UH 0:06:59.400 --> 0:07:02.520 and golf like, it puts golf in a very interesting space. 0:07:02.720 --> 0:07:06.640 I think golf professional golf could get a lot better 0:07:06.760 --> 0:07:09.440 because of this, but it will always be tainted with 0:07:09.640 --> 0:07:12.440 the involvement of the PIFF And I think there's so 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:17.560 much left of this too to go. I think it's 0:07:17.600 --> 0:07:22.120 hard to make declarations of this is good, this is bad. 0:07:22.760 --> 0:07:26.080 We don't know what this is going to be. There 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:31.160 are things about it that are very unpalatable, that are disgusting, 0:07:31.480 --> 0:07:35.920 and you know that that are difficult to come to 0:07:35.960 --> 0:07:40.720 blows as somebody who covers professional golf. But it is 0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:45.000 a fascinating time it has, you know, it is very 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:48.120 interesting to see where this goes from a business standpoint 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:51.440 and you know the future of golf, and I think 0:07:51.520 --> 0:07:55.160 like one of the things that I appreciate about about 0:07:55.160 --> 0:07:58.320 golf is that there is life outside of professional golf. 0:07:58.360 --> 0:08:00.840 And that's one of the things that you know, a 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:04.160 day like today makes me feel happy about is that 0:08:04.280 --> 0:08:08.240 this podcast doesn't just cover professional golf, and that we 0:08:08.240 --> 0:08:10.440 we talk about a lot of other things that make 0:08:10.480 --> 0:08:12.480 the game of golf beautiful and why we love the 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:16.480 game of golf. And you know, not everything is about 0:08:16.520 --> 0:08:19.520 the money in golf, and that's the beautiful thing about golf, 0:08:19.720 --> 0:08:23.840 professional golf. What we learned yesterday is that it is 0:08:23.880 --> 0:08:27.480 all about the money, and I think it's you know, 0:08:27.560 --> 0:08:31.760 it's a business, and the idea of it being this 0:08:32.559 --> 0:08:38.840 romantic gentleman's game has all washed away yesterday, And you know, 0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:40.400 I think we need to start to look at that 0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:45.240 professional golf as that what it is. It is a 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:48.080 for profit venture and they finally are going to be 0:08:48.120 --> 0:08:50.840 a for profit entity, which is refreshing because they've been 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:54.520 a for profit venture operating as a nonprofit for far 0:08:54.640 --> 0:08:57.280 too long. So we're going to get it more into 0:08:57.400 --> 0:09:01.760 all this, but I appreciate you guys. Let's and hopefully 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:06.520 this lends a little bit of different perspective from Joe 0:09:06.559 --> 0:09:23.439 and Joseph here in this podcast. Thanks all Right, before 0:09:23.520 --> 0:09:26.640 we get to Joe Ogilvie, let's take a quick break 0:09:26.640 --> 0:09:29.559 to talk about our sponsor, Missit and Maine. 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:30.360 Listen. 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:33.800 I have had as a work from home human being, 0:09:33.960 --> 0:09:37.400 I've had lots of qualms about dress shirts. I was 0:09:37.440 --> 0:09:40.240 in the startup space. But my first job out of college, 0:09:40.559 --> 0:09:43.600 I wore dress shirts every day, and I remember how 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:45.080 much of a pain in the ass it was. 0:09:45.360 --> 0:09:45.680 I was. 0:09:45.840 --> 0:09:49.760 I'd have to go to dry cleaners. They would wrinkle, 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:53.240 they would stain. You know, it was just a pain 0:09:53.320 --> 0:09:56.600 in the ass. They were uncomfortable. I just remember, you know, 0:09:56.720 --> 0:09:57.959 at that time I was, I was. 0:09:57.880 --> 0:09:58.920 In my early twenties. 0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:01.360 I have some fun during the week every once in 0:10:01.360 --> 0:10:04.439 a while, and you know, you're just sitting uncomfortable work 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:07.160 in a dress shirt. It's like, man, what a disaster. 0:10:07.600 --> 0:10:09.800 I got sent these dress shirts from Visit and Maine, 0:10:10.240 --> 0:10:14.240 among some other stuff, you know, great pullover they had. 0:10:14.320 --> 0:10:16.280 They have, you know, a wide range of clothes, but 0:10:16.320 --> 0:10:17.880 the dress shirts really stood out to me. 0:10:17.960 --> 0:10:18.520 I put them on. 0:10:19.000 --> 0:10:22.520 You know, even like a casual, short sleeve like kind 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:25.480 of shirt that you can wear out like it just 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:29.640 feels like a comfortable shirt. You might work out it. 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:33.679 It's great. So this performance fabric dress shirt that they 0:10:33.720 --> 0:10:38.800 invented ten years ago, they've perfected as lightweight, breatheable, moisture wicking, 0:10:39.200 --> 0:10:43.720 wrinkal resistant, like everything that you used to dislike about 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:47.240 dress shirts. They have solved for with their shirts. I 0:10:47.400 --> 0:10:51.320 love their casual shirts that you can wear around. Their 0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:55.360 T shirts are super comfortable. This has been these clothes 0:10:55.360 --> 0:10:58.760 they sent me. I've been super happy with and definitely 0:10:58.920 --> 0:11:03.120 changed by perception and what I'm looking for and and 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:05.480 like my appetite to wear a dress shirt. 0:11:05.800 --> 0:11:07.920 So if you're looking. 0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:11.640 For some new dress shirts, new clothes in general, Misson 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:15.200 and Maine has a great offer for you. Use the 0:11:15.240 --> 0:11:19.400 code Frida egg and you'll get thirty five dollars off 0:11:19.640 --> 0:11:22.720 any purchase of one hundred and twenty five dollars or more. 0:11:23.440 --> 0:11:26.839 And you visit Mizzon and Maine that's m I zz 0:11:27.000 --> 0:11:31.760 E N and A N D Maine m AI N 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:35.120 dot com and you'll get thirty five dollars off any 0:11:35.160 --> 0:11:37.520 purchase of one hundred and twenty five dollars or more 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:38.200 with the. 0:11:38.080 --> 0:11:40.160 Code Frida egg. Try it out. 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:44.720 I think you'll be very, very pleased with the quality 0:11:44.920 --> 0:11:47.000 and the comfort of the shirts. 0:11:47.559 --> 0:11:49.280 Now to Joe Ogilvie. 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:56.440 Joe Landmark Day and golf yesterday, I think that would 0:11:56.480 --> 0:12:02.320 be an expression that's not hyperbolic curious off the bat overall. 0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:05.400 What were your big picture thoughts on yesterday? 0:12:05.840 --> 0:12:10.360 Yeah, I mean, obviously, I think it's amazing that it 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:12.720 didn't leak. Number one, It was very very close to 0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:16.160 the vest I don't think I think a merger was surprising. 0:12:16.160 --> 0:12:20.240 I don't think a partnership or an eventual I mean, 0:12:20.240 --> 0:12:23.160 I think a partnership was very very likely even a 0:12:23.200 --> 0:12:27.720 year ago, or we get to this point. I thought 0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:29.400 it might take eighteen months. I thought it made two 0:12:29.440 --> 0:12:32.760 twenty four months, but it was it was inevitable that 0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:36.480 they were going to get together and and kind of 0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:40.040 hash things out. I think it was inevitable that. You know, 0:12:40.840 --> 0:12:44.200 some of the rhetoric last year when when Jay would say, 0:12:44.200 --> 0:12:46.240 these guys are never going to play the PGA Tour again, 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:49.160 I mean, it was that was a that was a 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:51.120 comment that I think he wished he had back because 0:12:51.160 --> 0:12:54.160 that that was never going to be the case. It 0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:58.520 was a very it just wasn't a very smart comment. 0:12:58.880 --> 0:13:03.000 But I think that what it does is it it 0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:06.600 PJ Tour is now in a very good position from 0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:10.160 an economic standpoint. They were spending way too much money 0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:13.160 and now they have they have enough money to spend 0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:16.280 and to really maybe accomplish what they were trying to 0:13:16.280 --> 0:13:17.240 do in the long term. 0:13:17.640 --> 0:13:20.839 I guess you know, I think you this, you're saying 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:23.559 this was inevitable. How how do you think what are 0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:27.720 the key things that got us to where we are now? 0:13:27.880 --> 0:13:31.720 With with the with the Pith very involved with golf, 0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:36.840 and you know, effectively live the PGA Tour, European Tour 0:13:37.120 --> 0:13:38.000 under one umbrella. 0:13:38.520 --> 0:13:41.200 Well, I think if you if you take a mental model, 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:45.079 and the mental model is you know, there's an old 0:13:45.120 --> 0:13:47.120 saying show me the incentives and I'll show you the outcome. 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:51.240 There's another one that says, you know, follow the money. 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:53.440 If if I've got an entity that's going to spend 0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:56.160 two billion dollars in a sport or up to four 0:13:56.200 --> 0:14:00.400 billion dollars in a sport, eventually everybody's going to listen them. 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:04.320 And you know, it'd been easier to listen to them 0:14:04.360 --> 0:14:07.199 off the bat, but if they're going to keep spending, 0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:10.560 you're you're gonna you're gonna have to listen to them. 0:14:10.559 --> 0:14:12.600 And then if you're the if you're the golf world, 0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:14.400 I mean the Majors kind of showed this, and the 0:14:14.440 --> 0:14:18.040 Masters and the and the PG Championship, US Open, Open Championship, 0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:22.080 they haven't incentive to have the best possible fields and 0:14:22.160 --> 0:14:25.600 the best possible product for the fans, for the television partners, 0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:29.320 and for you know, just to maintain them being majors. 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:34.160 And you know, eventually the PGA Tour, the DP World 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:37.080 Tour would get there as well. They were going to 0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:39.920 have to figure out. I mean, Brooks Kepta winning certainly 0:14:39.960 --> 0:14:45.400 helped Michoelson finishing second, Brooks finishing second at the Masters, 0:14:45.400 --> 0:14:47.720 and then Brooks ultimately win in the PG Championship Rice 0:14:47.760 --> 0:14:51.200 and finished fourth. The PJ Tour is like, okay, how 0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:53.280 do I go to my sponsors and say, like, you know, 0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:55.760 we've got this great product, but we don't have you know, 0:14:56.480 --> 0:14:58.360 let's play this out live. Has two out of the 0:14:58.400 --> 0:15:01.520 four major winners. Who knows they might have three out 0:15:01.520 --> 0:15:04.000 of the four major winners and two more months, and 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:07.560 so you're eventually going to get to the point where 0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:10.000 the powers that be were like, we've got to have 0:15:10.040 --> 0:15:12.560 the best players because that's what our fans demand, and 0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:15.120 that's what our sponsors demand, and that's what our television 0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:19.520 sponsors demand, so our television partners demand. So you were 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:21.720 going to get there. The question was, you know, how 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:27.120 many how many tiers were shed, how many were how 0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:29.640 many statements did you have to backtrack on? And how 0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:31.480 many people did you have to pay piss off in 0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:35.240 the meantime? And I think that, you know, I think 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:38.240 I said maybe six months ago May, there was like 0:15:38.280 --> 0:15:40.280 four or five different lawsuits at once, and I'm like, 0:15:40.640 --> 0:15:44.560 pretty soon once you once you can no longer sue 0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:48.640 anyone else, that's when that's when the adults in the 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:50.600 room kind of step in and say, okay, let's let's 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:52.480 figure this out. And that was about six months ago. 0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:55.240 I think I said that in a tweet. Maybe it 0:15:55.280 --> 0:15:58.280 was nine months ago, but this was this was this 0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:02.080 was definitely inevitable apart maybe a full merger was not 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:04.600 but a but a but a partnership or some type 0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:05.360 of Dayton. 0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:08.000 Was It's interesting, what do you think of it? That way? 0:16:08.120 --> 0:16:10.720 Like the lawsuit if I you know, I have a toddler, 0:16:10.800 --> 0:16:12.560 so I deal with this on a daily base. That 0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:16.680 the lawsuits almost like the temper tantrum. And then once 0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:20.040 the temper tantrum kind of quells, you get resolution and 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:23.680 like a cooling of heads of sources. When you can, 0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:28.680 once you get through that initial period of of you know, chaos, 0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:32.000 you're able to convey a message. But you can't convey 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:35.240 a message until that has, you know, run its course 0:16:35.280 --> 0:16:35.760 a little bit. 0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:40.240 Yeah, and it's it's gonna be really interesting. I am 0:16:40.600 --> 0:16:43.360 I am not sure if the lawsuits are necessarily over. 0:16:43.400 --> 0:16:45.640 I mean, they certainly are between Live and the PGA Tour. 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:50.120 But there's this little entity called the Justice Department. It's 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:54.560 got actually a bigger budget in Saudi Arabia that that 0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:57.800 may not that that they may not go as quietly 0:16:57.880 --> 0:16:59.760 as as the PGA Tour and the powers that be 0:16:59.840 --> 0:17:02.800 with like they opened up a can of worms. Jay 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:06.640 said something yesterday that I've still I don't know if 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:09.719 it was intentional or if it was a slip or 0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:12.280 or what it was, but he said, we saw an 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:16.879 opportunity to take out a competitor. If if you are 0:17:16.920 --> 0:17:22.400 in the middle of a Justice Department investigation on antitrust, 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:30.640 that comment is I don't know it. I'm wondering if 0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:34.080 it was purposeful, and if it was purposeful, what was 0:17:34.119 --> 0:17:36.960 the purpose behind it, Because it was a it was 0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:43.080 an incredibly brazen comment, and I mean after I heard that, 0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:45.640 I kind of like I stopped listening to the press 0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:48.119 confidence because I couldn't believe it. So we'll see what happens. 0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:51.480 But they you know, there's Justice Department is gonna I 0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:53.320 mean New York Times had an article on it today. 0:17:54.280 --> 0:17:55.600 They are going to look at that and they are 0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:57.600 going to look at that that comment, and they are 0:17:57.640 --> 0:17:59.359 going to feed on that. I mean that is that 0:17:59.480 --> 0:18:02.440 is that is red meat for the Justice Department. 0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:06.080 Yeah, That's been a lot of the discourse today is 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:09.639 the idea that you know, this isn't this deal is 0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:12.480 not going to happen because of the you know, anti 0:18:12.480 --> 0:18:17.600 trust lawsuit and the anti trust events investigation. Like you know, 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:19.600 how could you look at this and not think it's 0:18:19.640 --> 0:18:22.639 more of a monopoly with this in place than it 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:27.520 was before? And uh, I mean that's that's a fascinating 0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:30.600 wrinkle to this is is that you know what what 0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:35.360 actually you know this is a framework deal. And I'm 0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:41.159 curious from your perspective, especially with your with your experience 0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:43.399 on the policy board and the pack, what does a 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:46.680 framework deal mean in PGA tour land. 0:18:47.160 --> 0:18:50.840 Well, I think to be fair, no one's no one's 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:53.080 ever dealt with this, you know, at least from a 0:18:53.200 --> 0:18:57.280 from a golf player standpoint, in a PGA Tour policy 0:18:57.320 --> 0:19:00.520 board standpoint, I mean up until you know at Hurley, 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:05.959 he and Jimmy Dunn and Jay. So yeah, I don't think. 0:19:06.000 --> 0:19:09.360 I don't think we know. I think that's what's really 0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:12.080 interesting is is you know a few guys and I've 0:19:12.080 --> 0:19:15.200 read have said, oh, this isn't a deal between Live 0:19:15.960 --> 0:19:18.840 and the PGA Tour and the DP Tour. This is 0:19:18.840 --> 0:19:21.440 a deal between the p I F the PGA Tour, 0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:26.240 the DP Tour. Like, okay, you know the transitive property 0:19:26.240 --> 0:19:28.920 would state that Live in the p if for kind 0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:30.800 of one of the same. I mean, not not really, 0:19:30.840 --> 0:19:34.520 but I mean sort of. But and then you talk 0:19:34.600 --> 0:19:38.080 to the some some people associated with Live, they're like, 0:19:38.200 --> 0:19:39.919 this is the greatest thing ever because this is going 0:19:39.960 --> 0:19:43.920 to make the franchises work more and everything else. I honestly, 0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:47.159 this is one of these it's really difficult to handicap 0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:50.679 on what those what those things are going to be. 0:19:52.000 --> 0:19:55.159 There is now a for profit entity. I think that 0:19:55.359 --> 0:19:57.160 if I had to look to the tea leaves, I mean, 0:19:58.080 --> 0:20:01.439 I think the five O one seed six is is 0:20:01.520 --> 0:20:05.320 slowly going to atrophy. Maybe you know, I hope not, 0:20:05.520 --> 0:20:09.960 but I think that that's that's probably that probably happens. 0:20:10.520 --> 0:20:13.360 I don't think that that I think the tour will 0:20:13.400 --> 0:20:19.800 be fully full for profit soon. And you know, what's 0:20:19.840 --> 0:20:21.960 a framework look like. I think that that starts to 0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:25.879 look like a framework. But we'll see, you know. And 0:20:25.920 --> 0:20:27.560 I think if you're if you're, if you're the p 0:20:27.720 --> 0:20:30.400 i F and you're yaes Er, you're looking at your 0:20:30.400 --> 0:20:33.840 guys that that made the jump to live and they 0:20:33.880 --> 0:20:36.720 made they took the risk. I mean people people will 0:20:36.720 --> 0:20:38.480 say that, no, they just got paid and it was 0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:40.639 great for them and they got to But let me, 0:20:40.720 --> 0:20:45.000 I've been to two events. I've talked to the players. 0:20:45.040 --> 0:20:48.760 I've talked to their wives. I know how their some 0:20:48.800 --> 0:20:51.920 of their kids have been I want to say ostracized, 0:20:52.000 --> 0:20:55.400 but their kids haven't been invited to certain things. And 0:20:55.400 --> 0:20:57.560 and believe me, there was a lot of stress for 0:20:57.680 --> 0:20:59.399 the guys that went to Live and there was a 0:20:59.400 --> 0:21:02.639 lot of there's a lot of like they did get paid, 0:21:02.720 --> 0:21:08.440 but they they sacrificed in terms of you know, some status, 0:21:08.640 --> 0:21:14.119 some reputation, some captaincies, and you know, that was not 0:21:14.200 --> 0:21:19.920 an easy thing. And I hope you know, the p 0:21:20.119 --> 0:21:23.400 i F and and they assert doesn't use this as 0:21:23.440 --> 0:21:26.000 saying like Okay, I got what I want, I'm gonna 0:21:26.040 --> 0:21:29.200 flush this other thing down the drain, because if you're 0:21:29.240 --> 0:21:32.080 those guys, you know, so there's a push and pull, right, 0:21:32.119 --> 0:21:33.960 the PGA tour is going to be like, well, anybody 0:21:33.960 --> 0:21:35.880 on the PGA tours are They're going to say why 0:21:35.880 --> 0:21:38.040 didn't take the money? I feel like I got screwed. 0:21:38.680 --> 0:21:40.560 And then the live guys are going to say, well, 0:21:40.640 --> 0:21:42.639 I did take the money. This is great for me. 0:21:42.760 --> 0:21:45.840 But there's also a chance that the live thing atrophies 0:21:45.880 --> 0:21:49.080 and and and dies. I mean, I've heard, I've heard, 0:21:49.280 --> 0:21:53.160 I've heard two different things. So it's it's a it's 0:21:53.160 --> 0:21:55.600 gonna be it's gonna be a fascinating couple of months 0:21:55.600 --> 0:21:59.240 to see how this, see how this plays out, and 0:21:59.320 --> 0:22:01.080 it'll be months. It will not be it will not 0:22:01.160 --> 0:22:04.800 be weeks. It'll be months and probably six months. 0:22:05.040 --> 0:22:08.880 That's the thing I keep sticking on as people are like, oh, well, 0:22:09.320 --> 0:22:12.280 you know, I saw that Rory today was talking about 0:22:12.320 --> 0:22:14.320 how Jay is now their boss, all right, like the 0:22:14.880 --> 0:22:18.440 live player's boss, Like you know that being said, he's 0:22:18.520 --> 0:22:22.560 got a partner that controls the per spring per strings 0:22:23.640 --> 0:22:26.439 that he has to keep happy as well. And I 0:22:26.600 --> 0:22:29.119 just can't imagine that Yaser is going to be in 0:22:29.119 --> 0:22:36.320 the position with those players that literally made this new 0:22:36.400 --> 0:22:40.520 reality possible for him, is going to quickly stab them 0:22:40.520 --> 0:22:42.760 in the back and like allow Jay to put like 0:22:42.840 --> 0:22:46.760 a big sanction on them. You know, I don't foresee 0:22:46.840 --> 0:22:48.360 that being a realistic thing. 0:22:49.000 --> 0:22:52.720 Well, in corporate governance terms, Yasser is the chairman of 0:22:52.840 --> 0:22:56.399 the board of the for profit So the chairman Jay 0:22:56.720 --> 0:23:01.640 is Jay reports to him. At least that's how governance work, right, 0:23:01.760 --> 0:23:06.159 So yeah, he he is going to or his excellent 0:23:06.200 --> 0:23:09.879 and you know, I call it yes or his excellency 0:23:09.920 --> 0:23:13.959 to his face, but he he he is the chairman 0:23:14.000 --> 0:23:17.160 of the board and Jay reports, Jay works for him. 0:23:17.440 --> 0:23:20.560 He's the chairman and as a for profit entity. Now 0:23:20.640 --> 0:23:23.399 it's gonna be very So if you look in a 0:23:23.440 --> 0:23:25.600 crystal ball and you're like, Okay, how how could this 0:23:25.680 --> 0:23:30.320 play out? One version of this playing out is you 0:23:30.320 --> 0:23:34.920 you have this if Live let's say Live Live is 0:23:34.119 --> 0:23:38.640 is sticks around. You've got the guys that own the franchises, 0:23:38.720 --> 0:23:41.880 You've got potential to to have a couple more franchises 0:23:42.200 --> 0:23:44.800 that funnels up. They're gonna they're gonna get now get TV, 0:23:44.880 --> 0:23:46.520 They're now gonna get sponsors. I mean, there was a 0:23:46.560 --> 0:23:49.080 lot of people hanging around the hoop, just waiting it 0:23:49.240 --> 0:23:53.080 for it to be legitimized. Major corporations kind of liked it. 0:23:54.600 --> 0:23:56.720 They like the young, they liked the demographic, they like 0:23:56.760 --> 0:23:59.520 the energy to those events. So I think that they 0:23:59.600 --> 0:24:01.760 I think the there is now a path that they 0:24:01.800 --> 0:24:04.199 can actually, by the way, I'm a fan of the 0:24:04.359 --> 0:24:08.720 of the Team Golf, I think i'd be, but it's 0:24:08.720 --> 0:24:13.160 pretty compelling for me. But now you're the PGA Tour 0:24:13.200 --> 0:24:15.480 and you're looking at the Rory's and the John Rams 0:24:15.520 --> 0:24:17.800 and the Headekis and and the Jordan's space and the 0:24:18.040 --> 0:24:21.760 Justin Thomas and Rockey Fowlers, and you say, God, these 0:24:21.800 --> 0:24:24.360 guys didn't go in and they had they turned down, 0:24:24.520 --> 0:24:28.959 you know, seventy five to four hundred million dollars. How 0:24:29.000 --> 0:24:31.760 do we do this? Well, when you have a for 0:24:31.920 --> 0:24:36.280 profit entity, there is a thing called equity and our 0:24:36.400 --> 0:24:40.320 issues and it can be phantom equity. And all of 0:24:40.359 --> 0:24:43.720 a sudden, you now have a vehicle that I can 0:24:43.800 --> 0:24:46.880 give such and such a person. By the way, James 0:24:46.920 --> 0:24:50.359 Monahan will be given equity in this new venture. He 0:24:50.400 --> 0:24:53.200 will make more money now than he has ever made. 0:24:54.320 --> 0:24:58.160 He will get a raise, and so so you now 0:24:58.200 --> 0:25:01.440 have equity that you're allowed that you can give players 0:25:01.680 --> 0:25:05.840 and and and basically say, look, we want to incentivize 0:25:05.840 --> 0:25:09.040 you to make this new thing grow, and we want 0:25:09.080 --> 0:25:11.199 you to buy in, and we want you to to 0:25:11.280 --> 0:25:14.320 do this. And I think that's what will I think 0:25:14.359 --> 0:25:16.640 that that's what will happen. I think that I think 0:25:16.680 --> 0:25:21.080 that the the equity gifts will be will dole out 0:25:21.720 --> 0:25:28.120 and right rightly probably, And you know, but again, that's 0:25:28.160 --> 0:25:30.920 that's in that's in the details, that's in the details. 0:25:31.200 --> 0:25:33.520 I think that's like, you know, and you talk about 0:25:33.960 --> 0:25:37.639 some of the things that hampered Live, you know, with 0:25:37.720 --> 0:25:41.720 the teams and the flow of players in. You know, 0:25:41.840 --> 0:25:45.199 that's you know, is there an expansion of the franchises, 0:25:45.359 --> 0:25:48.120 and like one of the things with the franchises is 0:25:48.160 --> 0:25:52.640 like teams, the name like teams didn't mean anything because 0:25:52.640 --> 0:25:57.280 they didn't represent anything. And Live could you tweak that 0:25:57.400 --> 0:26:01.680 model now and create something that meant something with an 0:26:01.720 --> 0:26:04.600 idea that you you talked about on this podcast a 0:26:04.600 --> 0:26:07.280 few months ago with like a city you know. 0:26:08.280 --> 0:26:12.840 Yeah, well, look I think that there was a first 0:26:12.840 --> 0:26:15.280 of all, we're not even well, I guess this week 0:26:15.480 --> 0:26:21.879 was we're one anniversary in now brands have let's called 0:26:21.960 --> 0:26:25.320 live a brand brands and teams. I mean they need 0:26:25.359 --> 0:26:28.960 they need time to kind of, you know, morph into 0:26:29.000 --> 0:26:31.440 whatever they're going to be. I mean, Coca Cola wasn't 0:26:31.600 --> 0:26:36.080 you know, the happiest drink on earth from the get go? Right? 0:26:36.080 --> 0:26:40.920 It that that that happened over time and we'll we'll 0:26:40.920 --> 0:26:43.160 see what lives what live does. But I mean, look, 0:26:43.200 --> 0:26:46.439 and I think in a for profit world and a 0:26:47.640 --> 0:26:50.240 maybe a morphing out of the five toh one c 0:26:50.520 --> 0:26:54.439 six world, you will my my idea on franchises. You you' 0:26:54.600 --> 0:26:56.960 that that'll come a lot quicker than I than I thought. 0:26:57.080 --> 0:26:59.760 I thought that was like a fifteen year deal. That 0:26:59.760 --> 0:27:03.040 that that'll become, that'll become a lot quicker. And and 0:27:03.160 --> 0:27:05.199 you started to hear. I mean I was contacted by 0:27:05.200 --> 0:27:07.359 a bunch of journalists. Have you heard anything about live 0:27:07.480 --> 0:27:12.280 buying the PGA? Uh? Well, PGA? What's it called? Where 0:27:12.280 --> 0:27:15.439 do we have the hanted classic? Uh? Did you hear 0:27:15.480 --> 0:27:18.720 anything about live buying? PG National? I heard another one. 0:27:18.720 --> 0:27:21.240 Do you hear anything out live buying? There was another 0:27:21.320 --> 0:27:23.000 course and I was like, no, I haven't heard anything, 0:27:23.040 --> 0:27:26.520 but they they wanted to eventually, and these teams wanted 0:27:26.600 --> 0:27:30.360 eventual home bases and to think about it like that, 0:27:30.680 --> 0:27:33.280 and and then they were going to have farm teams 0:27:33.320 --> 0:27:36.359 and they they I mean, it was kind of it 0:27:36.400 --> 0:27:39.840 was going to take time. That Saudi's that if you 0:27:39.840 --> 0:27:44.280 look at their history, they are very patient. So you know, 0:27:44.600 --> 0:27:47.199 we'll see what ultimately happens with the PGA Tour and 0:27:47.240 --> 0:27:49.280 what they do. And if there's a team aspect, I 0:27:49.320 --> 0:27:51.360 think I think the team aspect would go very very 0:27:51.359 --> 0:27:55.120 good and very very well. You know, you got the Europeans, 0:27:55.160 --> 0:27:56.600 you got the Americans, you get the I mean, you 0:27:56.600 --> 0:27:59.200 could you could almost do it. My gosh, Oklahoma State 0:27:59.200 --> 0:28:01.399 can have their own team. I have like four teams, 0:28:02.520 --> 0:28:04.720 and then you could have you know, different countries and 0:28:04.920 --> 0:28:07.200 you know, you've got the Japanese team or the Japanese 0:28:07.240 --> 0:28:10.439 Korean team, the Australia team that you had with Cam Smith. 0:28:10.920 --> 0:28:13.719 You've got the Irish, you know, I mean, you know 0:28:13.960 --> 0:28:18.520 Rory and Lowry and Fitzpatrick. I mean, it's there's there's 0:28:18.560 --> 0:28:21.160 a lot there that that that could be very very 0:28:21.200 --> 0:28:24.199 compelling for golf fans. And I think that just because 0:28:24.200 --> 0:28:27.600 it just because you know, I'm getting to the to 0:28:27.640 --> 0:28:33.119 the age where I'm definitely older, but like the young, 0:28:33.480 --> 0:28:37.040 the young fan I think would embrace these teams. I 0:28:37.080 --> 0:28:39.720 think that it's going to be very interesting to see 0:28:40.240 --> 0:28:43.840 to see what that that can be. Maybe it goes away, 0:28:44.040 --> 0:28:48.200 but I think it could be extremely compelling if it's 0:28:48.360 --> 0:28:50.840 given a little bit of time to kind of see 0:28:50.880 --> 0:28:51.440 what it could be. 0:28:52.080 --> 0:28:55.640 I mean, I think I'm kind of with you with 0:28:55.720 --> 0:28:58.880 the teams. I believe that there is something to team golf, 0:28:59.120 --> 0:29:02.080 and I think it. You know, the way I think 0:29:02.120 --> 0:29:04.560 if I zoom out is you know, if you think 0:29:04.600 --> 0:29:08.680 about professional golf and do you want it to be 0:29:08.920 --> 0:29:12.600 more going forward in the vein of F one where 0:29:12.640 --> 0:29:16.040 you have individual and team competition or you know, the 0:29:16.040 --> 0:29:19.520 Premier League, which is you know, obviously a team team sport, 0:29:20.200 --> 0:29:22.080 or do you want it more to be like tennis? 0:29:22.280 --> 0:29:26.040 And to me, the team aspect adds like a whole 0:29:26.040 --> 0:29:31.000 different layer of interest into the sport, right, And that's 0:29:31.040 --> 0:29:35.160 where the big value jump is rather than especially from 0:29:35.200 --> 0:29:38.920 the PGA Tours standpoint, which is, you know, where the 0:29:39.640 --> 0:29:43.320 genuine interest in golf is the big where it transcends, 0:29:43.920 --> 0:29:46.800 you know, the golf the hardcore golf fan is that 0:29:47.560 --> 0:29:52.840 the Masters, the US Open, the PGA, the Open Championship, 0:29:52.840 --> 0:29:55.040 and the Ryder Cup, none of which are owned by 0:29:55.080 --> 0:29:56.120 this this entity. 0:29:57.000 --> 0:30:00.840 Yeah, yeah, and I think this entity has an opportunity 0:30:00.920 --> 0:30:04.920 to you know, the PGA Tour went kind of they 0:30:04.920 --> 0:30:07.600 went a little bit bloated in their twenty twenty four schedule. 0:30:07.680 --> 0:30:09.920 I mean they I think they have five opposite field events. 0:30:09.960 --> 0:30:13.960 Now it's going to be sort of what everybody thought 0:30:14.040 --> 0:30:15.080 needed to be done. 0:30:15.520 --> 0:30:17.520 Yeah, so you thought you were going to get lean, 0:30:17.640 --> 0:30:21.000 mean and efficient and then you kind of went, you 0:30:21.080 --> 0:30:23.600 went blow. But it was it was interesting because you know, 0:30:23.640 --> 0:30:26.160 part of this deal I think it was a question 0:30:26.200 --> 0:30:29.280 of it was dollars. I think that the anti trust 0:30:29.320 --> 0:30:35.840 case was probably not going to go terrific, Discovery was 0:30:35.880 --> 0:30:38.800 not going to go terrific. And you know, I think 0:30:38.840 --> 0:30:40.880 the Dosign eight events they were having a real problem 0:30:41.000 --> 0:30:45.760 filling all the holes, and economy starts to wobble a 0:30:45.760 --> 0:30:48.959 little bit, and you know, sponsorship is the first thing 0:30:49.000 --> 0:30:53.040 you go. So you know it it filled, it filled 0:30:53.080 --> 0:30:55.400 a little bit a hole, but they they man, they went, 0:30:55.440 --> 0:30:58.000 they went, they went bloated. So I hope with this 0:30:58.080 --> 0:31:00.280 new event, the twenty twenty five schedule, they look at 0:31:00.280 --> 0:31:02.080 it and They're like, Okay, we're going to make We're 0:31:02.080 --> 0:31:03.680 going to make the Corn Fairy Tour as good as 0:31:03.680 --> 0:31:05.320 it could possibly be. We're going to make the DP 0:31:05.480 --> 0:31:08.360 Tour as good as it could possibly be. We are 0:31:08.440 --> 0:31:13.040 going to have the designated events going to seventy players. 0:31:13.920 --> 0:31:18.520 Was anyone that is paying attention knew that that was 0:31:18.560 --> 0:31:21.920 not going to be a terrific idea and would work 0:31:21.920 --> 0:31:24.600 in the long term, especially when you're you know, you're 0:31:24.600 --> 0:31:27.160 in effect shrinking the schedule. I mean, the guy who's 0:31:27.320 --> 0:31:29.640 the guy who's you know, had a pretty darn good 0:31:29.720 --> 0:31:33.200 year seventieth on the money list is not not going 0:31:33.200 --> 0:31:36.840 to get into the anyway. It's it just if you're 0:31:36.880 --> 0:31:39.040 a player and you're looking at this, it's like, God, 0:31:39.200 --> 0:31:41.600 what do you just what are you doing? If you're 0:31:41.640 --> 0:31:44.960 if you're pon a vidra? And I think that that 0:31:44.960 --> 0:31:50.120 that was an over arching It was just not going 0:31:50.200 --> 0:31:51.800 to It was just not going to work, and I 0:31:51.800 --> 0:31:56.400 think they went more and more down the designated event 0:31:56.640 --> 0:32:00.280 ramp is that it was. It was challenging because they're 0:32:00.280 --> 0:32:02.920 all going to look the same, and sameness doesn't work. 0:32:02.960 --> 0:32:04.400 I mean, you look at the majors. The majors are 0:32:04.400 --> 0:32:06.840 all different. That's what makes them great. Now they're one 0:32:06.880 --> 0:32:13.000 fifty six six and you know, ninety twoesday, but they 0:32:13.040 --> 0:32:16.280 all have taken on their own personality. If you make 0:32:17.280 --> 0:32:21.880 if you make the designate events, seventy person no cut events, 0:32:21.960 --> 0:32:24.240 they all look the same and they're all kind of 0:32:24.320 --> 0:32:25.920 like Yeah, I. 0:32:25.880 --> 0:32:29.160 Mean, honestly, it'd be you know, you get different courses, 0:32:29.200 --> 0:32:31.840 but it'd be like if F one race did the 0:32:31.880 --> 0:32:34.880 same track every every time. You know, they have the 0:32:34.920 --> 0:32:37.880 same drivers and everything, but I don't think the course 0:32:38.120 --> 0:32:42.080 is you know, especially you know, this is a whole 0:32:42.240 --> 0:32:45.720 other different candid worm. So with the bodder technology, you know, 0:32:45.880 --> 0:32:51.520 courses aren't as big of a you know, differentiator as 0:32:51.680 --> 0:32:53.000 a racetrack would be. 0:32:53.880 --> 0:32:56.000 Yeah, I think that's right. I mean, look, if i'm 0:32:56.120 --> 0:32:59.600 if I'm J Monahan, I look at I look at 0:33:00.240 --> 0:33:03.600 Tiger Woods, I look at Jack Nicholas and you know 0:33:03.720 --> 0:33:07.959 Arnold when he was alive, and I say, you're the 0:33:08.160 --> 0:33:10.640 icons of our sport. What do you want your tournaments 0:33:10.640 --> 0:33:11.200 to be? Go? 0:33:11.320 --> 0:33:11.560 Do it? 0:33:11.680 --> 0:33:14.400 You want one fifty Arnold? You're you're at You're the everyman. 0:33:14.840 --> 0:33:16.160 You want you want you want it to be one 0:33:16.200 --> 0:33:21.720 hundred and forty four players, you know, double wave be 0:33:21.880 --> 0:33:23.480 just like you know, however, you want to set up 0:33:23.480 --> 0:33:25.560 your golf course and go do it? Jack Nicholas, you're 0:33:25.920 --> 0:33:28.000 you're the you know, the greatest player, one of the 0:33:28.000 --> 0:33:30.959 most majors. Do you you think outside the box? How 0:33:30.960 --> 0:33:32.920 do you want your tournament to look like? I don't 0:33:32.920 --> 0:33:34.960 want to I don't want to box those guys in 0:33:35.120 --> 0:33:37.320 Tiger Woods? What do you what do you want Riviera 0:33:37.400 --> 0:33:38.720 to be? Do you want it to be eighty people? 0:33:38.760 --> 0:33:40.040 Do you want it to be one hundred and thirty 0:33:40.040 --> 0:33:41.680 two people? What do you what do you want to 0:33:41.720 --> 0:33:43.360 be a cut? You want not to be a cut? 0:33:44.000 --> 0:33:47.360 Those guys are those guys are the icons of the game, 0:33:47.360 --> 0:33:49.959 and they changed the Maybe look at the players that 0:33:49.960 --> 0:33:52.440 have changed the game the most. It's it's Tiger Woods, 0:33:52.440 --> 0:33:55.000 it's Jack Nicholas, it's Arnold Palmer. Got to put Greg 0:33:55.040 --> 0:33:57.200 Norman in there now, and you got to put dem 0:33:57.240 --> 0:33:59.720 Beeman in there. I mean, those guys, those guys think, 0:34:00.560 --> 0:34:04.280 and the players have always made the big changes. The 0:34:04.320 --> 0:34:08.320 players have always driven, you know, really the out of box, 0:34:08.440 --> 0:34:11.880 out of the box thinking in golf, at least professional golf. 0:34:12.239 --> 0:34:14.960 And I mean, I don't want to say the players 0:34:14.960 --> 0:34:17.680 are always you know, right, but at the same time, 0:34:18.120 --> 0:34:20.759 they've always driven that change and they've always been that 0:34:20.880 --> 0:34:25.480 change agent. And I think Pantovitra has to has to 0:34:25.480 --> 0:34:28.600 look at themselves in the eye and say, you know, 0:34:28.760 --> 0:34:33.160 we don't have a monopoly on great ideas, and you know, 0:34:33.160 --> 0:34:35.520 we got to put a little bit more power. If 0:34:35.520 --> 0:34:38.040 we put more power to the players, a lot of 0:34:38.040 --> 0:34:43.320 this stuff that we're talking about would have it wouldn't 0:34:43.320 --> 0:34:45.120 have gotten to the point where it did. 0:34:46.120 --> 0:34:49.560 I mean, when do you think about the structural difference 0:34:49.800 --> 0:34:55.399 as well, going from a nonprofit to a for profit LLC. 0:34:56.719 --> 0:35:01.520 I think the identity of who the tour is and intrinsically, 0:35:01.600 --> 0:35:04.759 you know, I think the tour in a way it 0:35:04.840 --> 0:35:07.439 makes sense that the great ideas don't come from them 0:35:07.520 --> 0:35:10.520 because of the way the company set up, in the 0:35:10.520 --> 0:35:13.360 way it revolves around the players, and the way the 0:35:13.400 --> 0:35:16.960 structure of that, you know, just being a nonprofit versus 0:35:17.000 --> 0:35:20.080 a for profit. All of a sudden, I think there 0:35:20.160 --> 0:35:25.160 is a little bit more I want to say, impetus, 0:35:25.200 --> 0:35:30.520 and part of the identity might breed actual innovation and 0:35:30.640 --> 0:35:35.120 ideas towards it because there are now you know, investors 0:35:35.280 --> 0:35:40.160 equity holders who have voice and want to see something 0:35:40.200 --> 0:35:41.719 built to the biggest thing it can be. 0:35:43.200 --> 0:35:46.640 Yeah, I think that's I think that's probably right. I mean, 0:35:47.040 --> 0:35:50.719 I think that's that's why I kind of thought that 0:35:50.800 --> 0:35:55.480 the franchise model eventually would happen because you have you know, 0:35:55.560 --> 0:35:58.920 let's say you have thirty two or we have thirty 0:35:59.680 --> 0:36:01.920 thirty two weeks in a year now, or I'm a 0:36:01.920 --> 0:36:05.360 PGA tour schedule year maybe thirty maybe thirty one, I 0:36:05.360 --> 0:36:06.680 don't know where I talk of my head. But you 0:36:06.719 --> 0:36:09.560 also have the four majors, you got the players Championship, 0:36:10.040 --> 0:36:12.080 so let's take those out of it. So maybe twenty 0:36:12.200 --> 0:36:15.120 twenty six or twenty seven weeks, and if you had that, 0:36:16.880 --> 0:36:19.080 maybe you sprinkle some team events in there somewhere. But 0:36:19.200 --> 0:36:23.440 you have a You've got a lot of incentive to create. 0:36:23.560 --> 0:36:26.560 I mean, who knows what these tournaments and these entrepreneurs 0:36:26.560 --> 0:36:31.880 in these cities and who knows. If you unleash the 0:36:32.080 --> 0:36:37.600 entrepreneurial zest of people, you never know what you're gonna get. 0:36:37.640 --> 0:36:41.080 I mean, the NFL had no idea. People. You look 0:36:41.120 --> 0:36:44.000 back and what Jerry Jones did for the NFL. One 0:36:44.080 --> 0:36:46.880 guy that just had this Okay, I'm not going to 0:36:46.920 --> 0:36:49.200 play necessarily by the rules. I'm gonna make my own 0:36:49.280 --> 0:36:52.160 rules up. But I'm gonna show you the way that 0:36:52.239 --> 0:36:55.759 eventually everything will go. That that was a powerful thing 0:36:55.800 --> 0:36:57.440 for the NFL. I mean, Jerry Jones probably made the 0:36:57.560 --> 0:37:00.640 NFL and the owner's billions and billions, about tens of 0:37:00.680 --> 0:37:04.239 billions of dollars. And I think that's what happens when 0:37:04.239 --> 0:37:09.560 you take the if, if if Pana Vidro went almost 0:37:09.640 --> 0:37:14.640 a decentralized model and let and let these cities and 0:37:14.840 --> 0:37:17.320 these entities kind of kind of grow. I think it. 0:37:17.600 --> 0:37:20.520 I think it's an interesting, interesting thing to think about 0:37:20.800 --> 0:37:23.480 because while we're while we're we have no idea what 0:37:23.480 --> 0:37:25.160 what the next two years are going to look like. 0:37:25.480 --> 0:37:28.720 But as you just kind of riff on the possibilities 0:37:28.719 --> 0:37:31.160 and what may happen and what this. If you wanted 0:37:31.200 --> 0:37:33.560 to look at a for profitentity and you wanted to 0:37:33.600 --> 0:37:37.239 make that for profitentity grow as big and and and 0:37:37.320 --> 0:37:40.359 be as interesting as possible, that's certainly one of the 0:37:40.400 --> 0:37:42.320 ways that you do that. And by the way, golf's 0:37:42.320 --> 0:37:47.600 already in an international Golf's already in the international. It's 0:37:47.640 --> 0:37:51.239 called a traveling circus. Some of those franchises could be 0:37:51.280 --> 0:37:53.759 in London, they could be in Germany, they could be 0:37:53.800 --> 0:37:55.920 in Spain, they could be in Australia, they could be 0:37:56.000 --> 0:37:59.160 in Tokyo, they can be in China, they can be 0:37:59.200 --> 0:38:01.800 in Singapore, they can be I mean, it is a 0:38:01.960 --> 0:38:06.360 very very big world, and it could be massively and 0:38:06.400 --> 0:38:09.000 it's going to be massively profitable. I mean, I think 0:38:09.040 --> 0:38:12.120 that we're we're in the era of By the way, 0:38:12.160 --> 0:38:14.200 PJ tour players are not all good. I mean, they're 0:38:14.200 --> 0:38:16.160 gonna make a lot of money. They're and they they 0:38:16.239 --> 0:38:19.279 might be they might be contracted. I mean, who knows 0:38:19.280 --> 0:38:21.960 what purses look like. It might be you might have 0:38:22.400 --> 0:38:25.720 fifty guys that get paid a salary. But whoever owns 0:38:25.800 --> 0:38:30.320 these places and owns these we're getting way ahead of ourselves. 0:38:30.360 --> 0:38:34.160 But these these could be very very valuable cities. When 0:38:34.160 --> 0:38:37.120 you look at individual events and you look at what 0:38:37.160 --> 0:38:41.799 you would pay if each individual event where you could 0:38:41.800 --> 0:38:46.640 buy it, I mean it's well, the majors, you're in 0:38:46.680 --> 0:38:50.880 the billions, masters, you're you're over five or six billion. 0:38:52.560 --> 0:38:55.200 They have an opportunity to be very very valuable intoit, 0:38:55.360 --> 0:38:56.560 sent very very. 0:38:56.520 --> 0:39:00.960 Valuable into Yeah, there's so many places is that this 0:39:01.040 --> 0:39:03.719 could go, you know, and I think that's the the 0:39:04.080 --> 0:39:07.279 the the child like you can let your mind blander 0:39:07.400 --> 0:39:10.000 and I wonder, you know, if we go back, like 0:39:11.040 --> 0:39:14.879 you know, I think for fans one of the unpalatable 0:39:14.920 --> 0:39:18.879 aspects of this is the is the PIFF involvement, and 0:39:19.120 --> 0:39:21.160 if we go back, I think, like one of the 0:39:21.160 --> 0:39:24.920 things that I struggle with is like this was very 0:39:24.960 --> 0:39:29.359 clearly where the tour had to go in the last 0:39:29.400 --> 0:39:32.000 few years. They had to get rid of the nonprofit thing. 0:39:32.040 --> 0:39:35.719 It was archaic, it was you know, and effectively, it 0:39:35.800 --> 0:39:37.799 feels like they got to a point where there was 0:39:37.840 --> 0:39:40.920 only one option of how they went about this versus 0:39:40.960 --> 0:39:43.400 a year ago there might have been you know, you 0:39:43.440 --> 0:39:46.040 play it out for a year and you might have 0:39:46.120 --> 0:39:50.200 had other opportunities, other options to achieve the same thing 0:39:50.280 --> 0:39:52.680 they got today you are yesterday. 0:39:53.440 --> 0:39:54.640 Do you feel that way at all? 0:39:55.600 --> 0:39:59.200 Yeah, Well, look, people hate change, and it's very it's 0:39:59.320 --> 0:40:05.240 it's very difficult too, and it's hard. It's hard to change, 0:40:05.440 --> 0:40:08.279 and it's hard to have the mental flexibility to be 0:40:08.360 --> 0:40:10.520 able to change. I mean when you have a pretty 0:40:10.600 --> 0:40:13.640 darn good system as is. I mean, the PGA Tour 0:40:13.719 --> 0:40:17.279 is a business is a wonderful business, and you have 0:40:17.800 --> 0:40:21.880 these each city that we go to their run. You know, 0:40:21.920 --> 0:40:23.759 you've got that five oh one c three on the 0:40:23.760 --> 0:40:26.680 other side, and they have the charitable organization and you're 0:40:26.719 --> 0:40:29.960 touching a whole lot of lives. It's tough to go 0:40:30.080 --> 0:40:34.239 away from that because it fundamentally changes the whole you know, 0:40:34.280 --> 0:40:39.640 the whole thing. And I get that, and I'm I 0:40:39.680 --> 0:40:42.440 think you've got to You've got to You've got to 0:40:42.440 --> 0:40:44.080 be cognizant of that. I mean, you know, you think 0:40:44.120 --> 0:40:46.160 about the momentous institute in the in the in the 0:40:46.160 --> 0:40:48.480 red Pants in Dallas. I mean they started this whole 0:40:48.960 --> 0:40:52.800 model with with deem beam in and having the charitable component, 0:40:52.880 --> 0:40:55.680 and you know, for that to go away that that's 0:40:55.680 --> 0:40:57.960 a very tough thing to get your arms around. So 0:40:58.000 --> 0:41:00.520 how do you how do you maintain thisructure and how 0:41:00.520 --> 0:41:04.240 do you evolve and keep some of the best things 0:41:04.239 --> 0:41:08.480 that made your tour great and differentiated, but also move 0:41:08.520 --> 0:41:11.480 into the twenty first century, in the in the digital century, 0:41:11.480 --> 0:41:15.759 in the as as the world is globalized, and that's 0:41:15.760 --> 0:41:17.799 that's a tough thing. That's a very tough thing to do. 0:41:19.680 --> 0:41:23.160 But I think that they're I think that they're going 0:41:23.239 --> 0:41:25.960 to be They're they're going to be endeavoring to do 0:41:26.000 --> 0:41:26.680 it right now. 0:41:27.400 --> 0:41:32.560 So the PIF doesn't have majority board control, but they 0:41:32.760 --> 0:41:37.880 effectively have the the right to spend all the money. 0:41:38.040 --> 0:41:41.120 Are you know, appear to be in the position where 0:41:41.120 --> 0:41:43.600 they're going to be funding the majority of the new 0:41:43.640 --> 0:41:48.480 initiatives and they have this chairman spot what how would 0:41:48.560 --> 0:41:52.720 you break down how their power in the sport versus 0:41:52.840 --> 0:41:55.160 the PGA Tour retaining board control. 0:41:56.239 --> 0:42:00.840 Well, I think that the p i F is going 0:42:00.880 --> 0:42:03.520 to look to the PGA Tour to say, like, look, 0:42:03.560 --> 0:42:08.000 you have all you have a lot of institutional knowledge 0:42:08.080 --> 0:42:11.520 of all the players in the game, of the history 0:42:11.800 --> 0:42:15.160 and everything else. That's what ultimately, that's what we wanted 0:42:15.160 --> 0:42:18.600 to buy into and and and they and they did so. 0:42:18.719 --> 0:42:21.319 I think a lot of it is is is an 0:42:21.360 --> 0:42:25.319 overseeing there. I may'd be crazy not to defer to 0:42:25.360 --> 0:42:29.160 the PGA Tour in some respects, but now the tour 0:42:29.280 --> 0:42:31.839 has the ability and they have the checkbook where they 0:42:31.840 --> 0:42:35.160 can take they can take some risk. They've they've had 0:42:35.280 --> 0:42:37.480 they've had They've had a look at Live for the 0:42:37.520 --> 0:42:40.840 past year. You know, they saw what happened in Adelaide. 0:42:41.560 --> 0:42:45.680 They saw what happened in Miami last year. They I 0:42:45.719 --> 0:42:49.040 guarantee you they've had people on site very quietly and 0:42:49.040 --> 0:42:52.880 in observing this, and they have observed. I mean I 0:42:52.920 --> 0:42:54.960 went to the Pro Am party and Tulsa for live 0:42:55.040 --> 0:42:59.200 and I counted. I counted the number of people who 0:42:59.239 --> 0:43:01.560 had gray hair as opposed to people who didn't have 0:43:01.600 --> 0:43:04.200 gray hair, and there were four people in the entire 0:43:04.280 --> 0:43:06.879 crowd that live. There was probably two hundred and fifty 0:43:06.920 --> 0:43:09.000 to three hundred people there that had gray hair. I mean, 0:43:09.000 --> 0:43:12.279 this was I was shocked at how young this party was. 0:43:13.239 --> 0:43:15.480 For the pro Am Party. It was at a BMX 0:43:15.560 --> 0:43:20.200 Bike Hall of Fame thing in Tulsa, and they they 0:43:20.520 --> 0:43:22.880 they have tapped into something, and they've tapped into this 0:43:23.080 --> 0:43:25.920 youth that is real. I mean I've read that it's 0:43:26.400 --> 0:43:28.960 fifteen or sixteen years younger than the PGA tours. I 0:43:28.960 --> 0:43:31.319 think that's probably right. Certainly not as big a fan 0:43:31.360 --> 0:43:32.919 base as a tour, but I mean I think that 0:43:32.920 --> 0:43:35.719 that's that's kind of interesting. So I just think that 0:43:35.840 --> 0:43:39.800 you know, you can we'll see, we'll see what happens. 0:43:39.800 --> 0:43:41.879 But I think the PIF will listen to the PGA Tour. 0:43:41.960 --> 0:43:44.600 The PGA Tour has a chance to get a little 0:43:44.719 --> 0:43:47.279 riskier on the risk curve, and they have a chance 0:43:47.320 --> 0:43:50.880 to experiment, and you know, I think they will. I 0:43:50.880 --> 0:43:53.080 think they will, and I think the players it'll be 0:43:53.239 --> 0:43:55.359 it'll be rough going in the players. The player's got 0:43:55.400 --> 0:43:58.040 to get their arms around. Okay, how do we welcome 0:43:58.120 --> 0:44:01.239 these guys back? May not be welcome, welcome, that may 0:44:01.239 --> 0:44:05.200 not be like extended. But Brooks Kepcha was gonna play 0:44:05.200 --> 0:44:07.520 on the PGA Tour whenever he wants, probably next year. 0:44:07.800 --> 0:44:12.800 Dustin Johnson, the same thing, Cam, Kevin Knabb, Cam Smith. 0:44:13.080 --> 0:44:14.960 I mean, they're all gonna they're all going to be 0:44:15.000 --> 0:44:17.160 back on the PGA Tour next year. But how do 0:44:17.200 --> 0:44:20.479 you do it? So you know everybody can and people 0:44:20.520 --> 0:44:23.759 are going to be ticked off? I mean I have 0:44:23.920 --> 0:44:28.440 never bought Navidia and I'm ticked off about it, you know, 0:44:28.920 --> 0:44:31.600 And and you you know you've missed out and you 0:44:31.680 --> 0:44:34.680 feel like you've made a mistake, but you know that's 0:44:34.800 --> 0:44:39.040 that's that's business. It seems like how do you do it? 0:44:39.120 --> 0:44:42.239 As as you alluded to, and just reading the tea 0:44:42.320 --> 0:44:45.200 leaves of j Monahan saying, you know, I'm gonna try. 0:44:45.600 --> 0:44:48.839 You know, the big players that have been loyal are 0:44:49.000 --> 0:44:53.520 going to reap some benefit. And as you mentioned the 0:44:54.480 --> 0:44:56.640 you know, one of the great things about going to 0:44:56.680 --> 0:45:00.279 this for profit model is equity, you know, and the 0:45:00.320 --> 0:45:03.440 ability to award equity. And I think for a certain 0:45:03.480 --> 0:45:05.879 type of player, that seems like something that is going 0:45:06.000 --> 0:45:09.560 to be you know, maybe used, but some sort of 0:45:11.480 --> 0:45:15.840 bonus will be given to people that that helped the 0:45:15.880 --> 0:45:20.200 tour survive this onslaught that they faced last year, and 0:45:20.239 --> 0:45:22.120 it was very close to going the other way, it 0:45:22.200 --> 0:45:27.200 seemingly is it felt. What would your advice though, be 0:45:27.360 --> 0:45:30.200 to like the middle of the road guy that never 0:45:30.320 --> 0:45:34.880 had the live offer, that is that is frustrated with 0:45:34.880 --> 0:45:36.080 with a with the tour. 0:45:37.400 --> 0:45:41.120 You know, that's that's the that's the tough one because 0:45:41.160 --> 0:45:44.600 at the end of the day, what the miss I 0:45:44.640 --> 0:45:46.319 don't know if it was a mistake, but what the 0:45:46.360 --> 0:45:50.560 communication lacked was. I mean, the middle of the road guy, 0:45:51.239 --> 0:45:54.760 here's what he cares about. He cares about having a chance, 0:45:55.880 --> 0:46:00.000 and don't shut off my dream. I work my ass. 0:46:00.560 --> 0:46:03.000 I got to the pinnacle, I got to the PGA tour. 0:46:03.680 --> 0:46:09.759 Now don't make it impossible for me to maintain and 0:46:09.840 --> 0:46:13.320 keep my dream alive. And you know, I think when 0:46:13.400 --> 0:46:16.200 when when Panavidra came in, they had these designated events 0:46:16.200 --> 0:46:17.960 and they and they said, you know, we're going to 0:46:18.000 --> 0:46:23.040 a calendar year schedule January through you know, late August, 0:46:23.880 --> 0:46:27.520 and we're going to go to the designated event model 0:46:28.080 --> 0:46:30.200 where we're going to go from one hundred and twenty 0:46:30.239 --> 0:46:32.680 man Fields, well one hundred fifty six in terms of 0:46:32.719 --> 0:46:37.560 travelers down to you know, seventy five to eighty man 0:46:37.560 --> 0:46:41.040 Fields with no cut. Century was the only one that 0:46:41.120 --> 0:46:43.600 was actually going to increase their person of the Disney events. 0:46:44.040 --> 0:46:47.480 The middle of the road guys were like, what the hell, man, 0:46:47.560 --> 0:46:50.040 I mean, all I've done is work my ass off. 0:46:50.120 --> 0:46:52.040 I've got a harder job than you. JM on a hand, 0:46:52.080 --> 0:46:54.120 I mean, depend on the PGA tour. I have a 0:46:54.160 --> 0:46:56.160 harder job than you. You had a hard job getting 0:46:56.160 --> 0:46:59.719 to the commissioner's job, but I've got a harder job 0:46:59.760 --> 0:47:02.600 than you because it's harder to stay on the PGA 0:47:02.680 --> 0:47:05.239 tour than it is commissioner of the PGA Tour. And 0:47:05.320 --> 0:47:06.799 I think that's a state of fact. I don't think 0:47:06.800 --> 0:47:10.680 anyone would disagree with me on that. And so What 0:47:10.760 --> 0:47:12.759 you don't want to do is kill these guys dream. 0:47:12.920 --> 0:47:14.840 You've got to look them in the eye and say, look, 0:47:15.160 --> 0:47:18.440 you have this is what we're doing. This is you 0:47:18.440 --> 0:47:21.799 guys have a chance. You've got to play well. It's 0:47:21.840 --> 0:47:25.400 going to get harder because more money creates better athletes, 0:47:25.440 --> 0:47:29.279 creates younger athletes, creates you know, our harder ecosystem. But 0:47:29.480 --> 0:47:31.560 we're going to invest in the in the corn Ferry Tour. 0:47:32.400 --> 0:47:34.799 You're going to have access to the DP World Tour. 0:47:35.480 --> 0:47:37.640 We're going to increase the purses to the Corn Fairy Tour. 0:47:38.760 --> 0:47:42.239 And we're not going to do stupid things with the 0:47:42.239 --> 0:47:44.520 designated events. We might you know, we're going to let 0:47:44.560 --> 0:47:49.359 them each have their own you know, uniqueness to them. 0:47:49.800 --> 0:47:51.799 But we're certainly not going to go to seventy five 0:47:51.880 --> 0:47:55.439 man no cut events. I mean, last time I checked, 0:47:55.520 --> 0:47:57.920 Tiger Woods didn't miss a cut for ten years. So 0:47:57.960 --> 0:48:01.040 the best players, the majority of last majority, will be 0:48:01.080 --> 0:48:03.319 around in the weekend. They will not miss the cut. 0:48:03.400 --> 0:48:05.799 And if they do every now and again, are you 0:48:05.880 --> 0:48:07.680 really worried about missing a guy that he's off at 0:48:07.719 --> 0:48:10.040 seven thirty in the morning. I don't think so. But 0:48:10.080 --> 0:48:14.560 you cannot you cannot crush those guys dream You've got 0:48:14.600 --> 0:48:17.960 to give them hope. And I think that's the biggest 0:48:18.000 --> 0:48:19.560 thing if you were in the middle of the road guy, 0:48:19.920 --> 0:48:24.319 is that you know, you you sort of you sort 0:48:24.320 --> 0:48:27.640 of crush their dreams there for a second. Hopefully hopefully 0:48:27.719 --> 0:48:31.040 this I mean, they still have not said what those 0:48:31.120 --> 0:48:33.319 days designated events are going to do. They still have 0:48:33.440 --> 0:48:36.320 not proclaimed that they're not going to be no cut events. 0:48:36.440 --> 0:48:39.200 They've hinted it, but they seem to be. In the 0:48:39.239 --> 0:48:41.520 last three or four weeks if you've noticed, they've they've 0:48:41.640 --> 0:48:45.759 kind of waffled on that. And so I I thought 0:48:45.760 --> 0:48:47.719 the ink was dry. I think the ink is it's 0:48:47.800 --> 0:48:52.360 still wet. And so that'll be. That'll be, that'll be interesting. 0:48:52.360 --> 0:48:53.839 And I hope I hope the change it. I hope 0:48:53.840 --> 0:48:56.480 the change it because the middle of the road guy needs, 0:48:56.840 --> 0:49:01.839 you know, he needs a carrot. And I think will 0:49:01.880 --> 0:49:04.439 be We'll see, we'll see. 0:49:04.680 --> 0:49:05.839 With this, you know. 0:49:06.920 --> 0:49:11.080 I guess in a short like, what is what is 0:49:11.120 --> 0:49:16.560 your hope in terms of the dream scenario with this 0:49:16.640 --> 0:49:21.080 come coming together? What's the best resolution in terms once 0:49:21.120 --> 0:49:24.360 we get past say twenty twenty four, what's the best 0:49:24.400 --> 0:49:26.400 resolution for golf in your opinion. 0:49:27.480 --> 0:49:30.080 Yeah, it's twenty twenty four is gonna be It's gonna 0:49:30.080 --> 0:49:32.880 be very difficult, it's gonna be well, it's gonna be 0:49:32.960 --> 0:49:36.520 weird for a lot of different reasons. But you know, 0:49:38.239 --> 0:49:40.880 I think the PGA Tour should have probably gone to 0:49:40.920 --> 0:49:46.759 one hundred and ten person, you know, exempt tour. I 0:49:46.760 --> 0:49:48.840 think they had a chance to do that, maybe one 0:49:48.920 --> 0:49:51.759 hundred and maybe one hundred, and that would have made 0:49:51.760 --> 0:49:55.840 it a little bit easier. But now you've got, call it, 0:49:55.920 --> 0:49:59.759 twenty five guys coming from live that could possibly be 0:50:00.000 --> 0:50:02.480 playing on the PGA Tour next year, and probably in 0:50:02.560 --> 0:50:05.880 all likelihood will be playing on the PGA Tour at 0:50:05.960 --> 0:50:08.879 least in some form or function. Maybe they say they're 0:50:08.880 --> 0:50:11.759 not eligible for the for the designated events and they 0:50:12.120 --> 0:50:15.520 that helps boost the fields for the the other events, 0:50:15.640 --> 0:50:17.759 or they have to play in the designated events through 0:50:17.760 --> 0:50:20.640 the other events or something. But so now you've got this, 0:50:21.400 --> 0:50:25.800 you've got almost what happened with college sports, where you had, 0:50:26.040 --> 0:50:28.800 you know, people were getting two and three years extra 0:50:28.920 --> 0:50:30.960 with COVID, and you could be played college sports for 0:50:31.040 --> 0:50:33.160 six years or if you can play for sports for 0:50:33.239 --> 0:50:36.120 six years. Now, all of a sudden, you've got a 0:50:36.120 --> 0:50:38.760 couple of people that were going to play college sports 0:50:38.920 --> 0:50:40.879 no longer have a position on the team because you've 0:50:40.920 --> 0:50:43.480 got the older people coming in. So you've got this 0:50:43.480 --> 0:50:47.799 this accordion, and the eligibility that is a PGA tour 0:50:47.880 --> 0:50:50.200 now is way out here. I mean, you've got a 0:50:50.200 --> 0:50:54.120 lot of people that potentially have eligibility on the tour 0:50:54.880 --> 0:50:58.200 and that's going to be I mean, it's going to 0:50:58.239 --> 0:51:00.239 be it's going to be interesting to see what they 0:51:00.239 --> 0:51:04.360 do in twenty twenty four, twenty twenty five. I think 0:51:04.560 --> 0:51:07.040 I think they probably have to go down a little 0:51:07.040 --> 0:51:11.200 bit on the fully exempt status. I think that they 0:51:11.040 --> 0:51:16.120 they are going to they're going to invest in it 0:51:16.560 --> 0:51:17.920 used to be called the McKenzie Tour. I don't know 0:51:17.960 --> 0:51:18.879 what it's called now, but. 0:51:19.360 --> 0:51:23.000 The combination of the Latin American and the Canada they 0:51:23.160 --> 0:51:23.960 joined it together. 0:51:24.280 --> 0:51:26.239 I'm assuming they're going to put more money to that. 0:51:26.360 --> 0:51:27.920 I'm assuming they're going to put more money in the 0:51:27.920 --> 0:51:32.400 corn Ferry Tour, which they need to do, and you know, 0:51:32.520 --> 0:51:37.080 I think eventually that they will. It's it's really too 0:51:37.840 --> 0:51:40.320 too early, Andy. I mean, I think that if the 0:51:40.360 --> 0:51:44.120 European Tour or the DP World Tour, you know, that's 0:51:44.160 --> 0:51:47.280 the conundrum that I still don't. I don't think anyone 0:51:47.360 --> 0:51:51.840 understands yet. If let's say you've got Team Golf and 0:51:51.880 --> 0:51:53.640 you've got the PGA Tour and you've got the DP 0:51:53.760 --> 0:51:57.880 World Tour, what's the DP World Tour look. 0:51:57.840 --> 0:52:00.959 Like they own They own half the Ryder Cup. Now 0:52:01.239 --> 0:52:03.400 that's something well. 0:52:03.160 --> 0:52:05.319 But they've they've owned half the Rudder Cup since two 0:52:05.400 --> 0:52:09.640 thousand and ninety eight, right seven. 0:52:09.719 --> 0:52:13.560 I'm saying the tour does with this right because the 0:52:13.960 --> 0:52:16.680 DP World Tour was the owner and they had a 0:52:16.719 --> 0:52:20.040 stake in it. But now with this, you know, effective 0:52:20.160 --> 0:52:23.279 murder of you know, everybody wants to call something else. 0:52:23.880 --> 0:52:26.359 The tour actually owns it owns half of it. 0:52:27.280 --> 0:52:30.720 Well, they own half of it on the European side, 0:52:31.600 --> 0:52:34.319 so they don't own it, which is which a whole 0:52:34.320 --> 0:52:36.759 different conversation. They don't own it on the on the 0:52:36.880 --> 0:52:40.399 US side when they provide all the players for it, 0:52:40.640 --> 0:52:44.000 but they own fifty I don't know how that all works, 0:52:44.000 --> 0:52:49.440 but it's they'll they'll own the full thing eventually. But 0:52:50.520 --> 0:52:53.600 it you know, who knows it's that's where that's where 0:52:53.600 --> 0:52:56.360 it's it's it's you almost in the point of Padre. 0:52:56.600 --> 0:53:01.080 Look when they when they when the PGA Tour informed 0:53:01.200 --> 0:53:04.440 Austin the Dell Matchplay that they were no longer going 0:53:04.520 --> 0:53:08.200 to have a tournament next year. I mean we started 0:53:08.200 --> 0:53:11.600 talking in October and they didn't kill it until the 0:53:11.640 --> 0:53:14.799 week before, which was in March. So what is that 0:53:14.920 --> 0:53:19.840 almost five months and you had a fully sponsored event. 0:53:20.440 --> 0:53:22.480 Top line revenue was twenty six million. I mean, it 0:53:22.520 --> 0:53:26.239 took him five months to kill it. And this is 0:53:26.280 --> 0:53:28.520 going to take a long time for them to figure 0:53:28.520 --> 0:53:30.600 out the schedule, to figure out what it looks like, 0:53:31.320 --> 0:53:35.920 to figure out how Live can integrate. It's it's a 0:53:35.960 --> 0:53:38.600 it's a very very it's going to be a very 0:53:38.719 --> 0:53:41.920 arduous process, a very arduous process. 0:53:42.239 --> 0:53:47.759 Given the current opinion seemingly of the players of Jay 0:53:47.880 --> 0:53:52.680 Monahan through this whole thing, do you, you know, just 0:53:53.000 --> 0:53:55.640 as a former player, do you do you feel like 0:53:55.880 --> 0:54:02.719 he can continue to operate as the commissioner effect? 0:54:03.719 --> 0:54:07.719 Yeah? I mean, I mean, look, there's there's plenty of 0:54:07.760 --> 0:54:11.000 marriages that have lasted after the husband or wife cheats, 0:54:11.960 --> 0:54:18.440 and you know, there's counseling, and there's the ten step process, 0:54:18.800 --> 0:54:21.759 and there's groveling, and there's everything else. I mean, I 0:54:21.800 --> 0:54:25.120 think that the at the end of the day, the players, 0:54:25.840 --> 0:54:28.960 they want to get on the field and compete, and 0:54:29.000 --> 0:54:31.239 they want to try to beat old man par and 0:54:31.239 --> 0:54:34.480 they want to try to beat each other, and they 0:54:34.520 --> 0:54:36.440 want to do it in a venue, on a venue 0:54:36.680 --> 0:54:40.719 and on a tour that provides the best possible competition 0:54:40.840 --> 0:54:43.960 and the best possible, you know, way to make a living. 0:54:44.800 --> 0:54:47.920 And that at the Hallmark is what they are at 0:54:47.920 --> 0:54:51.440 the foundation, that's what they care about. And you know, 0:54:51.600 --> 0:54:54.799 I think a lot of this is they're sick of 0:54:54.840 --> 0:54:58.919 the noise. And so while they're disappointed, and I've only 0:54:58.960 --> 0:55:01.440 read the comments, I've talked to a couple, but you know, 0:55:02.760 --> 0:55:05.080 you know, I I guarantee you the board said to Jay, 0:55:06.560 --> 0:55:08.000 you need to go out there and you need to 0:55:08.040 --> 0:55:10.200 take every single arrow and there's gonna be a lot 0:55:10.239 --> 0:55:14.520 of arrows and we have your back and it's going 0:55:14.600 --> 0:55:19.239 to be painful, and that's just what's that's what's gonna happen. 0:55:19.320 --> 0:55:22.439 So I think I think it's'll be difficult. Certainly, there's 0:55:22.440 --> 0:55:26.799 a lot of lack of trust. And you know, jer 0:55:26.840 --> 0:55:31.439 Rory mcilroyd, my gosh, I'd love to have a beer 0:55:31.480 --> 0:55:34.040 of Rory, you know, I would love to have a 0:55:34.040 --> 0:55:37.840 beer of Rory right now. But I think that it's 0:55:38.239 --> 0:55:42.120 you know, time time heels, and I think Jay will 0:55:42.239 --> 0:55:45.000 I think Jay will survive. I mean he's lost the 0:55:45.040 --> 0:55:47.200 trust of a lot of guys and they'll never you'll 0:55:47.239 --> 0:55:50.000 never get it back. But I mean Benschham, no one 0:55:50.000 --> 0:55:53.239 trusted benshim or very few people trusted bench him. Just 0:55:53.440 --> 0:55:54.480 kind of the nature of the beast. 0:55:55.239 --> 0:55:58.239 All right, final question, and this, uh, this stems from 0:55:58.239 --> 0:56:01.200 this weekend, which seemed like a a year ago. 0:56:01.440 --> 0:56:02.719 This I felt like I was in. 0:56:03.160 --> 0:56:05.920 I feel like the last four years, you know, from 0:56:06.000 --> 0:56:09.000 the start of COVID till now are are just like 0:56:09.120 --> 0:56:12.400 filled with moments that make you think back to like, 0:56:13.000 --> 0:56:16.319 you know, Michael Block Fever feels like two years ago 0:56:16.440 --> 0:56:21.799 at this point, and the LPGAs like that happened two 0:56:21.840 --> 0:56:25.279 months ago. Let's tay to go back to that. Ro 0:56:25.440 --> 0:56:27.880 Jang a huge moment for the LPGA tour. 0:56:28.640 --> 0:56:31.799 You you tweeted disappointment in the fact that she wasn't 0:56:31.800 --> 0:56:36.640 being promoted. You know, the LPGA seemingly has a uh 0:56:37.560 --> 0:56:43.040 potential uh game changer on its hand. What what do 0:56:43.080 --> 0:56:46.280 you think they need to do in order to maximize 0:56:46.719 --> 0:56:50.880 their opportunity that has fallen on their doorstep seemingly. 0:56:51.600 --> 0:56:53.360 Well, I think they need to put a lot of 0:56:53.400 --> 0:56:57.640 resources to media. But I also think if i'm if 0:56:57.680 --> 0:57:00.919 I'm the commission of the LPGA Tour, I wait, and 0:57:01.000 --> 0:57:03.440 I mean I think it's that. I think she is 0:57:03.560 --> 0:57:06.600 the Eddie Murphy character at the end of trading places 0:57:06.600 --> 0:57:11.120 where they've cornered the frozen frozen constant, what is the 0:57:11.120 --> 0:57:14.480 frozen orange Joe consent trade market, and he's just taking 0:57:14.840 --> 0:57:17.720 you know, he's just picking which traders he wants to 0:57:17.720 --> 0:57:20.720 trade with. Because the LPGA Tour, for the first time 0:57:20.760 --> 0:57:23.840 in its history, is in the cupboard scene. Every single 0:57:23.880 --> 0:57:28.040 person wants to get into live entertainment. The LPGA Tour 0:57:29.000 --> 0:57:32.280 has a massive amount of potential. I mean, I am 0:57:32.720 --> 0:57:36.920 wildly bullish on women's golf, and I probably wouldn't have 0:57:36.960 --> 0:57:38.800 said that fifteen years Well, I wouldn't have said that 0:57:38.800 --> 0:57:42.240 fifteen years ago. But I mean, I am wildly bullish 0:57:42.240 --> 0:57:45.919 on women's golf, and she is. She has an opportunity 0:57:46.000 --> 0:57:49.760 to pick her partner. And you know, you've got this 0:57:50.680 --> 0:57:55.480 potential to have a generational talent named Roseang and unlike, 0:57:55.800 --> 0:57:59.840 unlike you, know, maybe Michelle Wee when she came through. 0:58:00.160 --> 0:58:02.720 Roseang has won everything. I mean, she has won every 0:58:02.760 --> 0:58:07.400 tournament there is. Michelle was a terrific marketer in a 0:58:07.440 --> 0:58:09.560 sense that she played against men, and she competed very 0:58:09.560 --> 0:58:12.280 well against men, I mean a lot better than everybody 0:58:12.280 --> 0:58:15.560 thought that she would. But but she didn't really win much. 0:58:15.680 --> 0:58:19.960 I mean Roseang has won everything. And she is I 0:58:20.000 --> 0:58:24.040 mean she is. She just wait till she has a 0:58:24.080 --> 0:58:27.120 little she'll get a little bit more demonstrative on the 0:58:27.160 --> 0:58:32.800 golf course, I think. And as she gains confidence or whatever, 0:58:32.840 --> 0:58:35.920 and then you've got it'll push. It'll push Lexi, and 0:58:35.960 --> 0:58:39.800 it'll push the Court of Sisters, and it'll push Lydia, 0:58:39.880 --> 0:58:44.240 Coe Jin Young Co you know Young Co and yes 0:58:44.360 --> 0:58:48.280 uh Lee. It'll push them all and and it is 0:58:48.480 --> 0:58:51.720 I mean, these these these women have a chance to 0:58:51.960 --> 0:58:58.240 really really I mean it's the LPGA Tour could pick 0:58:58.360 --> 0:59:01.400 their partner. Now they need a partner. I mean, if 0:59:01.400 --> 0:59:04.520 the PGA Tour needs a financial partner, the OLPGA Tour 0:59:04.600 --> 0:59:08.480 really needs a financial partner. And I would if I am, 0:59:08.640 --> 0:59:11.600 if I am Molly, I call a guy named Greg 0:59:11.680 --> 0:59:15.480 Mfay who runs Liberty Media, who also owns who also 0:59:15.560 --> 0:59:19.880 owns Formula one, and I ask Greg to lunch and 0:59:20.840 --> 0:59:25.200 I just see what he has to say, because they 0:59:25.640 --> 0:59:30.680 have an enormous opportunity. It is it is right there. 0:59:30.800 --> 0:59:32.760 I mean, just think about it. We're talking about you know, 0:59:32.960 --> 0:59:35.640 the usg rollback of the ball was like I don't know, 0:59:35.680 --> 0:59:38.320 four or five weeks ago, and they're talking about it. 0:59:38.880 --> 0:59:41.400 The women can play the best tournament's, best golf courses 0:59:41.440 --> 0:59:43.560 in the world, and the best course golf courses that 0:59:43.560 --> 0:59:46.080 have been the best for hundreds of years. They don't 0:59:46.080 --> 0:59:48.760 have to change him. I mean, you can play Cypress 0:59:48.760 --> 0:59:51.280 Point and you don't have to change it. But the 0:59:51.320 --> 0:59:53.960 PJ Tour can't play Cypress Point. PJ Tour can't play 0:59:54.680 --> 0:59:57.560 a lot of courses that the women can play. And 0:59:57.800 --> 1:00:02.880 it's a it is a huge opportunity. And I think 1:00:02.880 --> 1:00:07.919 that these these women are very good. They are they're 1:00:08.000 --> 1:00:11.920 fun to watch. They're going to get They're going to 1:00:11.960 --> 1:00:15.440 realize the opportunity and if they buy into it, takes 1:00:15.560 --> 1:00:18.480 it takes player buy in. But if they buy into it, 1:00:18.960 --> 1:00:22.480 they they have an opportunity to be well. They have 1:00:22.520 --> 1:00:25.040 the opportunity to be the best women's sports league in 1:00:25.120 --> 1:00:25.479 the world. 1:00:25.920 --> 1:00:28.760 I think the other opportunity, the other aspect of women's 1:00:28.800 --> 1:00:33.120 golf is that one of the things that hasn't happened seemingly, 1:00:33.160 --> 1:00:35.880 and Rose is a perfect example of this, is that 1:00:36.360 --> 1:00:41.520 power hasn't become the predominant skill. And when power is 1:00:41.720 --> 1:00:44.400 the you know, obviously there's other skills in golf, but 1:00:44.480 --> 1:00:48.000 powers become a prerequisite of men's golf in a way. 1:00:48.480 --> 1:00:51.040 And when power is a prerequisite, it becomes a game 1:00:51.120 --> 1:00:55.040 of youth and speed, which shortens careers and shortens windows. 1:00:55.360 --> 1:00:57.080 And I think one of the thing with the with 1:00:57.160 --> 1:01:00.080 the PGA Tour and men's golf, you will see there 1:01:00.120 --> 1:01:02.800 are always going to be a few bonafide superstars, but 1:01:02.840 --> 1:01:05.120 there will be a lot of sliding doors, a lot 1:01:05.120 --> 1:01:08.320 of like turnstile guys. In and out of that topic 1:01:08.440 --> 1:01:12.240 of are they a star player. With the women's game, 1:01:12.640 --> 1:01:16.360 you have a unique set of star players that play 1:01:16.440 --> 1:01:20.480 different styles. And that to me is like you have Lexi, 1:01:20.880 --> 1:01:25.720 who's very a power player. Rose is completely different than Lexi, 1:01:26.320 --> 1:01:28.800 and there are you know lydia Coe is a completely 1:01:28.840 --> 1:01:31.960 different player than Lexi. If you put Rory and Brooks 1:01:32.000 --> 1:01:34.400 next to each other, they kind of play the same 1:01:34.520 --> 1:01:37.120 type of game, right, you could say there are some 1:01:37.160 --> 1:01:40.240 small differences, but for the most part, the PGA Tour 1:01:40.320 --> 1:01:44.200 superstar plays a similar style. That's one of the most 1:01:44.360 --> 1:01:48.400 fascinating things to me about women's golf is that you 1:01:48.600 --> 1:01:53.560 have styles that are different and there's juxtaposition. You might 1:01:53.640 --> 1:01:58.120 see in a major championship at a great course Lexi 1:01:58.160 --> 1:02:02.640 Thompson driving at sixty yards past the other superstar contender 1:02:03.040 --> 1:02:07.240 that she's playing against, and you know, and that shorter 1:02:07.360 --> 1:02:09.880 hitter might win with other skills. 1:02:10.120 --> 1:02:14.360 Yeah, I mean, it's I mean, the single greatest round 1:02:14.960 --> 1:02:18.400 that I ever saw on the PGA Tour was playing 1:02:18.400 --> 1:02:22.080 with Corey paven at the Arnold Palmer Invitational. He finished 1:02:22.120 --> 1:02:24.680 fourth and go finished seventh or eight or sixth or 1:02:24.720 --> 1:02:29.080 something like that. But Corey, Corey had fifteen hybrids or 1:02:29.120 --> 1:02:33.560 three woods into holes the last round and shot seventy 1:02:33.600 --> 1:02:36.840 and beat me. It was the greatest display of golf 1:02:36.840 --> 1:02:40.840 I've ever seen, and I was out driving him by 1:02:40.840 --> 1:02:45.320 fifty yards and it was that you can see, You're right, 1:02:45.360 --> 1:02:47.200 you can see that on the LPGA Tour. There are 1:02:47.280 --> 1:02:49.520 no Corey Pavins anymore on the PGA Tour. I mean, 1:02:49.560 --> 1:02:53.080 it's Uh, that's you know, it's it's it's past. But 1:02:53.240 --> 1:02:57.160 it's that type of golf. Not everybody's gonna love it, right, 1:02:57.280 --> 1:02:59.560 I mean yeah, but that type of golf is really 1:02:59.560 --> 1:03:04.600 beautiful to watch. And I mean I don't remember anybody 1:03:04.600 --> 1:03:06.680 that shot sixty four that was out driving them by 1:03:06.680 --> 1:03:08.880 thirty yards and like, you know, okay, that was great. 1:03:09.280 --> 1:03:11.600 I remember Corey Paven shooting seventy the last round of 1:03:11.600 --> 1:03:13.280 bay Hill and thinking it was the greatest round of 1:03:13.280 --> 1:03:17.160 golf I've ever seen. So there's a there's a way 1:03:17.200 --> 1:03:19.720 to market that, and there's a way to there's a 1:03:19.760 --> 1:03:25.040 way to showcase that. And I think the I am 1:03:25.200 --> 1:03:30.560 just massively, massively bullish on the LPGA tour and and 1:03:30.760 --> 1:03:32.760 believe me, I would not have said that fifteen years ago, 1:03:32.800 --> 1:03:35.520 but I think it's Uh. I think it's just everything 1:03:35.560 --> 1:03:38.919 has come in line. And if you if you're there, 1:03:39.040 --> 1:03:42.320 if you're them, and you're the board, you have the 1:03:42.520 --> 1:03:45.600 you literally have the pick of a global sponsor whatever 1:03:45.640 --> 1:03:48.880 you want, you have the pick. And it's it's gonna 1:03:48.880 --> 1:03:50.959 be interesting to see what that looks like in ten years, 1:03:51.240 --> 1:03:54.520 because it's going to be it's it's it's I'm excited 1:03:54.560 --> 1:03:57.800 for these these women because they they're going to be 1:03:57.880 --> 1:04:00.360 rewarded because they work every bit as hard as the 1:04:00.400 --> 1:04:04.440 guys and they're they're going to be rewarded for that work. 1:04:04.880 --> 1:04:07.959 One last question, I promise this is the last one, 1:04:08.240 --> 1:04:10.880 and and it kind of ties both of this together. 1:04:12.080 --> 1:04:14.320 One of reading kind of the tea leaves I felt 1:04:14.320 --> 1:04:18.120 like yesterday was about more than just men's professional golf 1:04:18.160 --> 1:04:21.360 with the tour, and there might be a bigger play 1:04:21.560 --> 1:04:26.280 into a you know, a bigger movement into more than 1:04:26.440 --> 1:04:29.280 just men's professional golf. Do you feel that way at 1:04:29.280 --> 1:04:32.520 all if they're you know, with this new money partner 1:04:32.720 --> 1:04:35.720 and could it be something like the LPGA Tour being 1:04:35.720 --> 1:04:38.520 wrapped into this maybe maybe? 1:04:38.560 --> 1:04:41.280 And I think that that's that's an interesting thing that 1:04:41.600 --> 1:04:45.200 if you're on the board of the LPGA Tour, do 1:04:45.280 --> 1:04:47.280 you want to do you want? Do you want that? 1:04:47.400 --> 1:04:49.360 You got to really be careful on who you pick 1:04:49.400 --> 1:04:52.440 your partners, on what partnership you want. I think the 1:04:52.480 --> 1:04:56.880 PGA Tours maybe called, maybe not called, but I I 1:04:56.920 --> 1:04:59.680 think the bigger the bigger thing is I think there's 1:04:59.680 --> 1:05:03.280 a real state component to that, to the announcement yesterday. 1:05:03.800 --> 1:05:06.040 I think that there's a eventually, like we said, a 1:05:06.080 --> 1:05:09.640 franchise component, I think there's going to be there's going 1:05:09.720 --> 1:05:13.840 to be an ownership group throughout the whole world. It 1:05:13.920 --> 1:05:15.680 was a very big announcement, but I think it we're 1:05:15.800 --> 1:05:20.480 just at the beginning of that announcement. It's we're an inning, 1:05:21.800 --> 1:05:25.040 you know. I think that if if liv starting was 1:05:25.080 --> 1:05:28.520 the first inning, I think we're at the bottom half 1:05:28.560 --> 1:05:32.800 of the second. In terms of baseball, I think we're 1:05:32.880 --> 1:05:35.040 right at the beginning. And there's no there's no telling 1:05:35.040 --> 1:05:38.840 where this could go. But it's certainly an exciting time 1:05:38.840 --> 1:05:40.920 and it's an exciting time for the guys who are 1:05:40.960 --> 1:05:44.800 part of it. I just hope you, like I said, 1:05:45.040 --> 1:05:48.680 the mental model that if you're in Panovidra Beach is 1:05:48.800 --> 1:05:51.520 you've got to give guys hope and you can't crush 1:05:51.560 --> 1:05:54.800 the dream. Because that's what everybody on the Vega tour, 1:05:55.160 --> 1:05:57.120 and that was the message that Jay said that that 1:05:57.240 --> 1:06:00.000 resonated and should have been his message the entire time. 1:06:00.080 --> 1:06:02.880 I get rid of the moral stuff. I know I 1:06:02.920 --> 1:06:06.400 had to do the moral stuff, but or that's what 1:06:06.440 --> 1:06:09.040 the pr people were toning to do. But the key 1:06:09.120 --> 1:06:12.160 thing is is that everybody has grown up wanting to 1:06:12.160 --> 1:06:15.320 be on the PGA Tour. And that's everybody that went 1:06:15.400 --> 1:06:16.880 to live. They grew up wanting to be on the 1:06:16.880 --> 1:06:19.919 PGA Tour. And once you get there, you can't crush 1:06:20.000 --> 1:06:23.600 that dream. You've got to get people hope. And if 1:06:23.680 --> 1:06:27.160 you if you stay with that, men's professional golf will 1:06:27.200 --> 1:06:29.840 be very very good long term and I think everybody 1:06:29.880 --> 1:06:32.360 will be happy, most people. Most people will be happy. 1:06:33.600 --> 1:06:34.400 We'll end on that. 1:06:35.480 --> 1:06:39.480 People can find you on Twitter, and uh, thank you 1:06:39.520 --> 1:06:42.120 for coming on and uh, you know I said to 1:06:42.160 --> 1:06:44.960 thirty minutes and here we are an hour, and uh, well, 1:06:45.040 --> 1:06:47.920 I'm sure we'll talk again on this subject that is 1:06:48.200 --> 1:06:50.919 going to be developing by the week, by the month, 1:06:51.040 --> 1:06:55.480 by the day, by the year, you know, early on 1:06:56.120 --> 1:06:59.560 in the light in the life of this new development 1:06:59.560 --> 1:07:01.040 and Profess Golfs Thank you. 1:07:01.040 --> 1:07:13.440 Joe Hey, thanks any I appreciate it all. 1:07:13.520 --> 1:07:17.160 Right, before we get to Joseph LaMagna for the second 1:07:17.160 --> 1:07:20.320 part of this podcast, let's talk about our sponsor of 1:07:20.400 --> 1:07:26.280 this episode, the USGA. USGA members help fund initiatives that 1:07:26.400 --> 1:07:30.560 ensure a strong future for golf, from programs that encourage 1:07:30.640 --> 1:07:33.320 juniors to pick up the game to research that reduces 1:07:33.320 --> 1:07:37.440 courses reliance on water to providing golfers of all levels 1:07:37.520 --> 1:07:43.040 a platform to showcase their abilities through the USGA's fifteen championships. Listen, 1:07:43.960 --> 1:07:45.640 I love the USGA membership. 1:07:45.720 --> 1:07:46.040 They do. 1:07:46.280 --> 1:07:48.800 They've done so much for me as somebody who's been, 1:07:49.000 --> 1:07:52.000 you know, part of golf for their entire life. One 1:07:52.040 --> 1:07:55.280 of the greatest experiences of my personal golf life was 1:07:55.320 --> 1:07:59.840 playing in a USGA championship that it was world class experience. 1:08:00.280 --> 1:08:01.880 You know, when I think back to it, I wouldn't 1:08:01.880 --> 1:08:06.040 trade that experience for life. Like of me, especially with 1:08:06.120 --> 1:08:08.720 us on the eve of the US Open, whenever US 1:08:08.880 --> 1:08:12.600 big USGA event rolls around, gives me just great memories 1:08:12.640 --> 1:08:15.040 of that. But now when you start to think about 1:08:15.080 --> 1:08:17.400 it for future generations, the things they're doing. 1:08:18.080 --> 1:08:18.720 I think about it. 1:08:18.840 --> 1:08:22.040 My daughters started to like hit putts in the shed 1:08:22.080 --> 1:08:24.400 here when she comes in here, and it's starting to 1:08:24.439 --> 1:08:28.200 give me warm and fuzzy feelings of maybe she'll play golf. 1:08:28.280 --> 1:08:29.960 I don't know, it's too early to tell. 1:08:30.240 --> 1:08:32.360 But when I think about that and I think about 1:08:32.400 --> 1:08:36.479 where the game's going, I'm I'm very happy with them 1:08:36.680 --> 1:08:40.040 being you know, the stewards of the game and the 1:08:40.040 --> 1:08:44.040 best way to support them and ensure the long term 1:08:45.000 --> 1:08:47.759 success of the game is to join them as a member. 1:08:48.120 --> 1:08:52.280 So if you visit USGA dot org slash Fried Egg, 1:08:53.280 --> 1:08:54.240 you can join. 1:08:54.320 --> 1:08:55.880 The u s g A. 1:08:56.040 --> 1:08:58.680 It's a it's forty five dollars and you can be 1:08:58.720 --> 1:09:02.040 a member, a bad much a bag tag carrying member. 1:09:02.120 --> 1:09:04.880 You get an lacc hat, all kinds of good stuff, 1:09:04.960 --> 1:09:09.599 and most importantly, you are helping move the game forward 1:09:09.640 --> 1:09:14.799 for future generations. Now to Joseph Lemangna on a little 1:09:14.800 --> 1:09:24.320 bit more about a crazy time in golf. Joseph, we 1:09:24.360 --> 1:09:27.200 have talked on a number of occasions over the last 1:09:27.240 --> 1:09:31.280 couple of year, a couple of years really year about 1:09:31.400 --> 1:09:37.040 live the PGA tour, different facets of this. Obviously, the 1:09:37.200 --> 1:09:41.519 news on Tuesday morning coming out, I think probably took 1:09:41.560 --> 1:09:44.960 everybody a little bit by surprise, and here we are. 1:09:45.680 --> 1:09:50.679 What was your reaction, what were you doing? And kind 1:09:50.680 --> 1:09:52.960 of I think one of the interesting things is more 1:09:53.000 --> 1:09:56.800 information comes out, I think your reaction probably changes, But 1:09:57.320 --> 1:09:59.480 it took us to the moment you found out. 1:10:00.040 --> 1:10:02.160 I mean, it was just like everybody else. I saw 1:10:02.160 --> 1:10:06.040 it on Twitter. It was shocking to me. I don't 1:10:06.080 --> 1:10:08.800 know that I remember what my initial reaction was which 1:10:08.840 --> 1:10:12.679 which is crazy, but I was shocked. But I think 1:10:12.720 --> 1:10:17.000 I pretty quickly started to connect the dots and I'm 1:10:17.000 --> 1:10:18.960 sure we'll get more into this, but I think the 1:10:19.000 --> 1:10:25.040 PGA Tour's financial and legal situation was clearly pretty dire, 1:10:25.560 --> 1:10:28.400 and as soon as you start to put those pieces together, 1:10:28.600 --> 1:10:30.160 like the agreement makes sense to me. 1:10:30.400 --> 1:10:31.120 Still shocking. 1:10:31.120 --> 1:10:35.839 I didn't expect to see it, but it's it's amusing 1:10:35.880 --> 1:10:37.360 to me too, Like I think it's going to be 1:10:37.360 --> 1:10:41.400 interesting to see how things unfold. What was your reaction, Yeah, 1:10:41.439 --> 1:10:42.519 I think it was shocked. 1:10:42.640 --> 1:10:46.280 I mean, I feel like if I if I go 1:10:46.479 --> 1:10:51.400 back to the beginning of this whole saga, I think 1:10:51.439 --> 1:10:55.880 that was certainly, like you you could have foreseen something 1:10:55.960 --> 1:11:00.679 like this happening, with how bad the blood got between 1:11:00.720 --> 1:11:05.760 the two, you know, you it felt like it was unlikely. 1:11:05.840 --> 1:11:07.920 But at the end of the day, you know, it's 1:11:07.960 --> 1:11:10.720 I think the thing that everybody is realizing from this 1:11:10.800 --> 1:11:14.519 is is always about the money, you know, and I 1:11:14.520 --> 1:11:17.639 think that's the thing that probably has gotten j Monahan 1:11:17.760 --> 1:11:22.439 in the most trouble with how he how he you know, 1:11:22.560 --> 1:11:28.120 handled the the the drama during you know, the last year, 1:11:28.240 --> 1:11:30.840 this time where he's talking about nine to eleven, and 1:11:30.880 --> 1:11:34.760 now you know he's partnered with the organization. You know, 1:11:34.840 --> 1:11:38.240 I think that's the thing that that crystallizes from all 1:11:38.280 --> 1:11:43.160 this is that you know, we like to romanticize golf 1:11:43.200 --> 1:11:47.320 as a gentleman's game, and you know, people in professional 1:11:47.320 --> 1:11:51.400 golf have romanticized professional golf despite you know a number 1:11:51.400 --> 1:11:56.240 of different controversies as this gentleman's game, and nothing about 1:11:56.280 --> 1:11:59.920 the PGA Tour at this point, uh is a gentleman's game. 1:12:01.120 --> 1:12:03.080 I don't disagree with any of what you said. I 1:12:03.120 --> 1:12:03.799 think the only. 1:12:05.120 --> 1:12:09.080 Not really a counter but maybe additional opinion that I 1:12:09.080 --> 1:12:12.160 I would put in I think it's all money, yes, 1:12:12.240 --> 1:12:13.840 but also eyeballs. 1:12:14.600 --> 1:12:16.800 And that's where I just. 1:12:16.760 --> 1:12:21.599 Don't agree with the notion that there's nothing the PGA 1:12:21.640 --> 1:12:25.080 Tour could have done. When you're fighting against somebody with 1:12:25.360 --> 1:12:28.120 deeper pockets, they're always going to win. Like I think, 1:12:28.160 --> 1:12:30.240 if the PGA Tour had implemented a lot of the 1:12:30.320 --> 1:12:33.160 changes you and I have discussed years ago, it would 1:12:33.160 --> 1:12:35.639 have been much harder to threaten their business model. 1:12:36.040 --> 1:12:36.839 So I don't. 1:12:36.680 --> 1:12:39.760 Agree with the people who who might throw out there 1:12:39.760 --> 1:12:42.519 that no matter what, this was inevitable I think this 1:12:42.520 --> 1:12:44.600 could have been avoided. I'm sure we'll get into this, 1:12:44.680 --> 1:12:47.679 but I think the PGA Tour's leadership has been terrible 1:12:48.439 --> 1:12:51.760 over the last decade, and there's some serious egg on 1:12:51.800 --> 1:12:52.200 their face. 1:12:53.160 --> 1:12:56.719 Yeah, I mean, I don't want to take this off course, 1:12:56.800 --> 1:13:00.120 but you know, the PGA Tour is operated under or 1:13:00.160 --> 1:13:04.680 the if it's not broke, don't fix it mentality. And 1:13:04.760 --> 1:13:10.440 if you think about or any organization really in the world, 1:13:10.800 --> 1:13:14.000 for the most part, it's adapt or die. That's that's 1:13:14.080 --> 1:13:16.640 the way that you always have to be looking at 1:13:16.680 --> 1:13:22.679 constantly improving your product, improving your company, you know, changing 1:13:22.720 --> 1:13:25.479 with the times. And I think like a great example 1:13:25.560 --> 1:13:27.960 of this is like Monahan's comments a couple of weeks 1:13:27.960 --> 1:13:32.160 ago about slow play, like and you know, filling up 1:13:32.200 --> 1:13:36.960 TV broadcast windows, and it's like, well, you're missing the 1:13:36.960 --> 1:13:40.720 boat here. Every other sport is trying to speed up 1:13:40.760 --> 1:13:43.920 their product because they realize that is where they need 1:13:43.960 --> 1:13:46.840 to go. With the times, attention spans are shorter. You 1:13:46.920 --> 1:13:52.200 need to make these games quicker, have more pace to them. 1:13:52.520 --> 1:13:55.519 Monahan doesn't even think that way. He's thinking about his 1:13:55.680 --> 1:13:58.840 TV partners and filling a broadcast window when you could 1:13:58.920 --> 1:14:00.880 just move tea times back if all of a sudden 1:14:01.400 --> 1:14:05.040 players were playing faster and you still fill the broadcast window. 1:14:05.439 --> 1:14:07.360 So with that, like that. 1:14:07.479 --> 1:14:11.880 Kind of embodies the mentality of this leadership. And you know, 1:14:12.000 --> 1:14:15.280 with this news, and we'll get into some of the details, 1:14:15.320 --> 1:14:21.000 but with this news, like I have no faith, no confidence, 1:14:21.600 --> 1:14:25.839 and Jay Monahan leading this organization, leading this new regime, 1:14:26.120 --> 1:14:28.559 I doubt I don't really think that he is leading it. 1:14:28.640 --> 1:14:32.519 I think a lawyer Ed Harriley and a banker Jimmy 1:14:32.600 --> 1:14:36.760 Dunn are leading the organization and Monahan is just a 1:14:36.800 --> 1:14:42.360 figurative and literal punching bag sitting at the top. But 1:14:43.000 --> 1:14:45.439 like you know, in terms of how we got here, 1:14:45.800 --> 1:14:51.000 I don't I agree with you. This was ineptitude at 1:14:51.040 --> 1:14:55.479 the corporate level for a decade. This was not the 1:14:55.560 --> 1:15:00.160 last year. What happened the you know, it wasn't the 1:15:00.160 --> 1:15:03.120 the Saudi has just poured billions of dollars into the sport. 1:15:03.400 --> 1:15:05.640 They were allowed to pour billions of dollars into the 1:15:05.680 --> 1:15:11.040 sport because of the you know, reluctance to do anything 1:15:11.760 --> 1:15:15.479 to change what the PGA tour was, even though for 1:15:15.680 --> 1:15:19.000 years I think everybody knew it couldn't be a nonprofit 1:15:19.400 --> 1:15:22.560 and here we are. It is now not a nonprofit. 1:15:22.800 --> 1:15:24.679 This is you know, I think this is the biggest 1:15:24.680 --> 1:15:27.360 news of it is that they are shifting to a 1:15:27.400 --> 1:15:31.559 for profit model. The PGA Tour is wrapped under this 1:15:31.720 --> 1:15:37.360 for profit LLC. It's a partnership with the PIF that 1:15:37.439 --> 1:15:41.679 will be the you know, main funder of this LLC. 1:15:41.880 --> 1:15:44.360 I think they have the right of first refusal to 1:15:44.439 --> 1:15:48.280 any new investment in the PGA Tour. So you're looking 1:15:48.320 --> 1:15:51.280 at a sports league that will be you know, the 1:15:51.400 --> 1:15:55.879 majority money interest in it will be the PIF. Obviously 1:15:55.880 --> 1:15:58.520 we have lots of things to shake out with sponsorships. 1:15:58.840 --> 1:16:01.280 But you know, twenty two four is probably going to 1:16:01.360 --> 1:16:03.960 look like the calendar that they planned it. But I 1:16:04.000 --> 1:16:06.840 think beyond twenty twenty four is where you begin to 1:16:06.880 --> 1:16:10.840 see could see massive changes with the way this organization, 1:16:11.280 --> 1:16:13.360 the tour as we know it is structured. 1:16:14.200 --> 1:16:14.719 I agree. 1:16:14.840 --> 1:16:16.880 I don't have a whole lot. I think that's well said. 1:16:17.040 --> 1:16:19.639 I'm interested in the details some of the stuff around, 1:16:20.160 --> 1:16:22.000 like what does it mean to be a for profit 1:16:22.120 --> 1:16:26.200 versus the current existing structure, Like I'm interested in learning 1:16:26.280 --> 1:16:29.120 more about that. What kind of policy changes are still 1:16:29.120 --> 1:16:32.560 going to have to get ratified by PJ Tour players 1:16:32.600 --> 1:16:34.400 like in the board. Like I still have a lot 1:16:34.479 --> 1:16:38.800 of questions around those details, but ultimately we'll get some 1:16:38.840 --> 1:16:41.840 of those answers, whether or not they're explained concisely by 1:16:41.960 --> 1:16:42.800 j Monahan or not. 1:16:43.520 --> 1:16:47.040 I think, you know, just from like a rudimentary business sense, 1:16:47.160 --> 1:16:50.240 if you think about the PGA Tour and the benefits 1:16:50.240 --> 1:16:54.160 of being for profit things they could do sign players 1:16:54.200 --> 1:16:57.960 to contracts. I do not think that this is unreasonable. 1:16:58.000 --> 1:17:00.840 I think that Live was on something like that. It 1:17:00.960 --> 1:17:04.960 is very beneficial if you're for profit entity like liv was, 1:17:05.080 --> 1:17:09.360 to have your players contracted. It gives you a lot 1:17:09.400 --> 1:17:13.400 of flexibility freedom. It's very attractive for the PGA for 1:17:13.600 --> 1:17:16.920 players as well, you know, guaranteed money. I do not 1:17:17.160 --> 1:17:21.800 I foresee a a contracting of players eventually. 1:17:22.360 --> 1:17:25.679 H it allows them to award equity to players. 1:17:25.880 --> 1:17:29.599 You know, that's another interesting wrinkle of this, right when 1:17:29.680 --> 1:17:32.720 you start to talk about the players, like Rory McElroy. 1:17:32.840 --> 1:17:35.160 I saw Jay Monahan was just on Golf Channel. You 1:17:35.200 --> 1:17:38.160 know they they asked a great question, George Severy, because 1:17:38.160 --> 1:17:40.840 I believe asked a question about the players that remained loyal, 1:17:40.880 --> 1:17:44.600 you know, you're Rory McElroy's, your Colin morcow is Justin Thomas's, 1:17:44.720 --> 1:17:48.240 you're Hitdeckie Matsiamas. These people that turned down John Rahm, 1:17:48.240 --> 1:17:51.040 who turned down hundreds of millions of dollars and offers, 1:17:51.720 --> 1:17:57.120 you know, working tirelessly to make them whole, is effectively 1:17:57.160 --> 1:18:02.080 what Monahan like reward them handsomely. Maybe it's equity, maybe 1:18:02.120 --> 1:18:06.720 it's a contract. At some point they can structure incentive contracts. 1:18:06.800 --> 1:18:09.639 You know, I think, like you think about the PIP, 1:18:10.160 --> 1:18:15.280 right and how just how much of a disaster the 1:18:15.320 --> 1:18:19.120 PIP was. But this was all an attempt to incentivize 1:18:19.120 --> 1:18:23.960 their top players aroundabout way in a membership organization, to 1:18:24.080 --> 1:18:28.880 incentivize players like they they won't have to do that silliness. 1:18:29.040 --> 1:18:31.639 You know, they can say here's a bonus, here's a bonus, 1:18:31.640 --> 1:18:34.000 here's a bonus to the guys they want to give 1:18:34.120 --> 1:18:39.439 bonuses to. And you know, so I think, like, you know, 1:18:39.720 --> 1:18:41.800 the thing is like, what does the tour look like 1:18:41.840 --> 1:18:44.080 in twenty twenty five and beyond? Is really one of 1:18:44.120 --> 1:18:47.120 my big big questions. Are they going to some team 1:18:47.160 --> 1:18:50.639 event like what happens with liv But I think twenty 1:18:50.720 --> 1:18:55.960 twenty four will probably be twenty twenty four. That calendar 1:18:56.000 --> 1:18:59.160 that's been floated out there with designated events, that's going 1:18:59.240 --> 1:18:59.519 to be that. 1:19:00.680 --> 1:19:05.000 But it's a crazy, crazy kind of situation. 1:19:05.880 --> 1:19:11.400 Another bridge here. Eventually the product will get good. I 1:19:11.400 --> 1:19:15.120 think on that your points about some of the flexibility 1:19:15.360 --> 1:19:19.000 with compensating top stars. That's going to be interesting because 1:19:19.040 --> 1:19:22.760 I have mixed feelings about what guaranteed contracts could look 1:19:22.840 --> 1:19:26.040 like in professional golf. I mean, does that perpetuate some 1:19:26.080 --> 1:19:30.320 of the issues that I know you already feel strongly about. 1:19:30.360 --> 1:19:33.400 I feel strongly about, like players who there should be 1:19:33.439 --> 1:19:36.080 mobility among the tours. Are players going to lock up 1:19:36.120 --> 1:19:39.400 spots for five years even if they're not playing well 1:19:39.439 --> 1:19:42.719 because that's in the best interest of the player. And like, yeah, 1:19:42.760 --> 1:19:45.200 I understand that they can't give players guaranteed money now, 1:19:45.200 --> 1:19:48.479 but they had the stipend, and like there already were 1:19:48.560 --> 1:19:52.559 some mechanisms in place to get compensation to top players. 1:19:52.600 --> 1:19:54.320 I don't agree with the PIP. I think the PIP 1:19:54.400 --> 1:19:58.839 was ridiculous obviously, as we've talked about before. But we'll 1:19:58.840 --> 1:20:03.400 see the implementation that this flexibility affords them. I'm skeptical 1:20:03.479 --> 1:20:07.640 that things like guaranteed contracts could be implemented in a 1:20:07.640 --> 1:20:09.080 way that's beneficial to the product. 1:20:09.160 --> 1:20:10.519 We'll see. 1:20:10.680 --> 1:20:15.200 A question I have and I'm interested in is with Live, 1:20:16.160 --> 1:20:18.480 you know, would you like to see a team component 1:20:18.640 --> 1:20:22.200 to golf in say twenty twenty five and beyond if 1:20:22.720 --> 1:20:25.840 we just operate under the assumption that twenty twenty four 1:20:25.920 --> 1:20:27.120 is locked it, I. 1:20:27.080 --> 1:20:30.360 Don't think so. Frankly, I don't think team golf is 1:20:30.360 --> 1:20:33.920 the most compelling unless it's true team golf. The product 1:20:34.040 --> 1:20:36.720 Live had is not true team golf, at least in 1:20:36.760 --> 1:20:40.960 my opinion, when you're playing individually and just taking like 1:20:41.040 --> 1:20:44.360 best three of four scores. To me, that's not even 1:20:44.360 --> 1:20:45.960 really team golf. I think there was some kind of 1:20:45.960 --> 1:20:51.280 alternate shot series something that the team's had identities. Maybe 1:20:51.320 --> 1:20:56.479 there's a franchise component, potentially fans being able to invest 1:20:56.520 --> 1:20:58.960 in the franchises, like I could see a path to 1:20:59.000 --> 1:21:01.800 it being compelling. But at face value, I think the 1:21:01.840 --> 1:21:06.599 best brand of golf from an entertainment perspective is individual golf, 1:21:06.680 --> 1:21:09.720 unless it's something like the Ryder Cup. So I'm a 1:21:09.760 --> 1:21:12.439 little bit out on team golf unless I hear a 1:21:12.479 --> 1:21:14.799 fresh proposal that sounds compelling. 1:21:14.880 --> 1:21:17.280 But yeah, that's just my opinion. What do you think? 1:21:17.800 --> 1:21:18.440 Uh? 1:21:19.120 --> 1:21:22.680 I mean, I really enjoy like college golf, which is 1:21:22.720 --> 1:21:26.559 effectively you know, the five players count four, right, So 1:21:26.600 --> 1:21:29.559 it's a similar thing to Live. But the reason I 1:21:29.640 --> 1:21:33.280 enjoy college golf is that there's like an inherent fan interest, right, 1:21:33.360 --> 1:21:36.479 you have alumni of college. You went to Texas, like 1:21:36.800 --> 1:21:38.960 you're a Texas fan. I went to Illinois. I'm an 1:21:39.040 --> 1:21:42.000 Illinois fan. I think the struggle with Live was like 1:21:42.200 --> 1:21:45.240 always going to be establishing, like you know, and it 1:21:45.320 --> 1:21:47.320 is such a fun thing to make fun of. Is 1:21:47.479 --> 1:21:51.320 like I'm a clique fan, like what you know. But 1:21:52.000 --> 1:21:56.000 if you could if you could create a franchise model 1:21:56.000 --> 1:22:00.559 where it's city based, right, and they have stadiums right 1:22:00.640 --> 1:22:05.200 where it's shook the Chicago golf team or the San 1:22:05.200 --> 1:22:08.639 Francisco golf team, and they play at this golf course 1:22:08.680 --> 1:22:11.400 and they host an event every year at this golf course. 1:22:11.880 --> 1:22:14.240 And that's the way the circuit works, and there's a 1:22:14.800 --> 1:22:16.840 you know, I think you could make it work a 1:22:16.840 --> 1:22:19.519 lot better with with the PGA Tour because then all 1:22:19.560 --> 1:22:23.000 of a sudden, you have you control all the feeder tours. 1:22:22.640 --> 1:22:25.799 In and you can can you can consistently. 1:22:27.280 --> 1:22:30.640 Have the better players, who's playing best be rewarded, and 1:22:30.720 --> 1:22:34.799 there would be general fan interest in free agency player moves. 1:22:34.840 --> 1:22:38.880 Like I think that the Live Tour failed because of 1:22:38.920 --> 1:22:42.160 how contrived and everybody could see that this was just 1:22:42.240 --> 1:22:46.599 for the money. If you reshaped professional golf and tried 1:22:46.600 --> 1:22:49.639 to attempt to make it, you know, build it around cities, 1:22:49.680 --> 1:22:52.880 build it maybe maybe there's a worldwide component of it 1:22:52.960 --> 1:22:56.720 with Melbourne and and London and and different cities, like 1:22:57.120 --> 1:22:59.840 maybe all of all of a sudden, then you know 1:23:00.120 --> 1:23:03.519 there's an identity and a reason to root for teams. Right. 1:23:03.920 --> 1:23:08.639 The problem with the existing model was that the team 1:23:08.720 --> 1:23:12.080 stood for nothing outside of just like I came over 1:23:12.120 --> 1:23:14.840 here because I got paid a lot of money. Right, 1:23:15.160 --> 1:23:17.960 Like that is how I think team golf could work. 1:23:18.200 --> 1:23:21.120 You have to have a mechanism of like that's the 1:23:21.120 --> 1:23:24.960 way every other sport works. I'm a Bulls, Bears, Cubs fan, 1:23:25.560 --> 1:23:29.640 Blackhawks fan because I'm from Chicago. Right, is there a 1:23:29.680 --> 1:23:32.280 way that the fireballs are all of a sudden, you know, 1:23:32.840 --> 1:23:37.439 Austin's team because of Sergio Garcia, the honorary ut along. 1:23:38.120 --> 1:23:42.160 I'm not going to touch that in on that kind 1:23:42.240 --> 1:23:44.760 of a concept where there's an actual identity. I think 1:23:44.840 --> 1:23:49.040 one thing you're bringing up that one of my favorite 1:23:49.600 --> 1:23:53.080 five minute segments on a fried Egg podcast was when 1:23:53.120 --> 1:23:55.640 you had Joe oglebyond a couple months ago, and I 1:23:55.680 --> 1:23:58.519 think he's on this podcast as well, but he talked 1:23:58.560 --> 1:24:03.080 about how the PGA Tour doesn't own many of the 1:24:03.120 --> 1:24:07.519 most valuable properties in golf. Obviously the majors it doesn't own, 1:24:07.600 --> 1:24:10.360 but also not owning a lot of the golf courses, 1:24:11.120 --> 1:24:13.280 for example, like Austin Country Club, you have to go 1:24:13.360 --> 1:24:16.600 back and start negotiating every few years to get a 1:24:16.640 --> 1:24:19.880 new contract. If the PGA Tour actually owned those golf 1:24:19.920 --> 1:24:23.400 courses and owned those properties, I could see a world 1:24:23.479 --> 1:24:26.720 where you have a Chicago headquarters and that's where the 1:24:26.800 --> 1:24:30.240 Chicago team plays out of maybe a London team, maybe 1:24:30.240 --> 1:24:33.840 an Australian team. Events are hosted there, the golfers are 1:24:33.880 --> 1:24:36.960 familiar with the course, like you're going on to enemy turf. 1:24:37.080 --> 1:24:39.680 I could see that being compelling. So I'd be in 1:24:39.720 --> 1:24:41.760 on a concept like that as long as there's an 1:24:41.800 --> 1:24:44.880 identity to the teams and it's not this contrived like wait, 1:24:44.920 --> 1:24:49.080 why is Rory McElroy playing with Trey mullenax? Right, Like 1:24:49.640 --> 1:24:50.960 it has to have an identity. 1:24:51.479 --> 1:24:53.599 Yeah, and I think, like you know, this is kind 1:24:53.640 --> 1:24:56.439 of the half the glasses half full thing. I think 1:24:56.479 --> 1:24:58.880 we could get into the other things. But as I've 1:24:58.920 --> 1:25:04.000 started to think about this big picture, what this does is, 1:25:04.400 --> 1:25:08.920 you know, it does reshape how you could structure the 1:25:09.960 --> 1:25:12.679 golf professional golf as we know it with this new LLC. 1:25:13.600 --> 1:25:16.040 One of the things that the tour has been stuck in, 1:25:16.240 --> 1:25:20.000 and a lot of it's their own doing, is that 1:25:20.040 --> 1:25:25.759 they have been stuck with sponsor X, sponsors of this event, 1:25:25.960 --> 1:25:28.720 and we host it here because that's where the sponsor 1:25:29.000 --> 1:25:33.360 who wrote this, you know, fifteen million dollar check wants 1:25:33.360 --> 1:25:36.840 it and they want this format, and we have to 1:25:36.840 --> 1:25:39.920 have a pro am on Tuesday or on Wednesday because 1:25:39.960 --> 1:25:43.679 of the sponsor X. Joe Schmoe gets into the field 1:25:43.720 --> 1:25:46.800 because we got to give it to the sponsor. All 1:25:46.800 --> 1:25:49.720 of a sudden, when you shift this, it begins to 1:25:49.800 --> 1:25:53.439 look at look more like other sports leagues where there 1:25:53.479 --> 1:25:57.559 are sponsors, but they do not have undue influence into 1:25:57.600 --> 1:26:02.320 the actual competition. I think, now I do I have 1:26:04.000 --> 1:26:06.080 I want to I want to be clear here. I 1:26:06.160 --> 1:26:09.880 can foresee this being a really good thing for golf. 1:26:10.080 --> 1:26:13.559 Do I have any faith in the man running the 1:26:13.600 --> 1:26:17.760 professional golf Tour? No, I have none. I think he's 1:26:17.760 --> 1:26:20.720 a dipshit. I think he should have been fired a 1:26:20.800 --> 1:26:23.960 year and a half ago when he even allowed this 1:26:24.080 --> 1:26:28.559 to happen, when he didn't take meetings with far less, 1:26:28.680 --> 1:26:33.000 you know, far more palatable options, such as the PGL 1:26:33.240 --> 1:26:37.040 who effectively offered the same exact deal and they didn't 1:26:37.040 --> 1:26:39.840 get leveraged, burn a bunch of cash on fire with 1:26:39.920 --> 1:26:45.000 lawyer fees, and ostracize you know, say what you will. 1:26:45.000 --> 1:26:49.240 Phil Mickelson's an asshole, all right, he is a bad 1:26:49.520 --> 1:26:52.280 human might I think he's a bad human being? That's 1:26:52.280 --> 1:26:53.679 my opinion, all right? 1:26:54.040 --> 1:26:55.040 He has he is. 1:26:55.320 --> 1:26:59.479 But at the same time, I blame j Monahan a 1:26:59.520 --> 1:27:02.040 lot for allowing one of the legends of the game 1:27:02.880 --> 1:27:06.639 to get to this point to where he has such 1:27:06.680 --> 1:27:10.719 a polarizing place in the sport. Like that shouldn't happen 1:27:11.000 --> 1:27:14.080 to one of the ten most popular players of all time. 1:27:14.360 --> 1:27:18.640 That should never have been allowed to happen, and Monahan 1:27:19.120 --> 1:27:22.800 that's his fault, right, Phil is difficult to deal with, like, 1:27:23.080 --> 1:27:26.960 but you don't allow superstars to get to the state 1:27:27.000 --> 1:27:31.559 of public opinion that he got to and Monahan is 1:27:31.600 --> 1:27:35.120 completely wrong on that. So do I have any faith 1:27:35.360 --> 1:27:38.559 in Like, when you start to think about the the 1:27:38.840 --> 1:27:41.840 what professional golf could be, do I have any faith 1:27:41.880 --> 1:27:43.240 in j. Monahan getting us there? 1:27:43.360 --> 1:27:43.519 No? 1:27:45.400 --> 1:27:48.680 And what probably is going to happen is some you know, 1:27:49.720 --> 1:27:53.320 half in, half out, you know, need to make some 1:27:53.479 --> 1:28:01.160 players happy formula, you know, mediocre product that just continues 1:28:01.200 --> 1:28:05.360 to stifle golf. And I think, like the other aspect 1:28:05.439 --> 1:28:09.839 that we haven't really talked about is what the piff 1:28:09.880 --> 1:28:13.800 involvement in golf is going to do as for the 1:28:13.880 --> 1:28:20.120 greater I guess perception of golf in the greater sports world. 1:28:20.360 --> 1:28:23.280 Lots of unpack there. You're preaching to the choir with 1:28:23.360 --> 1:28:27.560 the Monahan talk. I do think I think he's feckless. 1:28:27.640 --> 1:28:31.360 I don't think he understands some of the necessary ingredients 1:28:31.360 --> 1:28:34.840 of leadership of a modern sports product. Again, I'm not 1:28:34.920 --> 1:28:37.200 a phill fan, but I think he's been right about 1:28:37.200 --> 1:28:40.559 a lot of things, including players ownership of their own 1:28:40.600 --> 1:28:43.120 media rights. Very interested to see if that is something 1:28:43.120 --> 1:28:45.880 that may change and if some of the walls around 1:28:46.760 --> 1:28:50.439 other people, people who are popular on Twitter are being 1:28:50.479 --> 1:28:52.920 able to start to share native content like we'll see 1:28:52.960 --> 1:28:56.040 on all of that. I think one thing, there are 1:28:56.040 --> 1:28:59.439 a lot of cross sport comparisons made to golf, many 1:28:59.479 --> 1:29:02.680 of which I think are appropriate. I think the UFC 1:29:03.479 --> 1:29:09.519 is an interesting comparison because those are independent contractors. One 1:29:09.600 --> 1:29:12.000 element of UFC that I'm interested in if you think 1:29:12.360 --> 1:29:15.400 golf could even follow this model. But UFC mostly operates 1:29:15.479 --> 1:29:19.920 under a pay per view model. Right the big events 1:29:20.680 --> 1:29:23.600 pay per view. Dana White and the rest of the 1:29:23.680 --> 1:29:26.879 UFC organization has every incentive to make those as exciting 1:29:26.880 --> 1:29:31.200 as possible, sell those pay per view to as many 1:29:31.240 --> 1:29:34.639 people as possible. Then they have their lower tier events 1:29:34.640 --> 1:29:37.280 that are free. You can watch them on a service 1:29:37.320 --> 1:29:39.320 like ESPN Plus, So as long as you have access 1:29:40.040 --> 1:29:41.960 to ESPN Plus, you can watch them. 1:29:42.400 --> 1:29:43.200 I wonder if. 1:29:43.080 --> 1:29:46.360 Golf would be well suited to fit into some kind 1:29:46.400 --> 1:29:50.280 of model like that, where you have your events in Chicago, 1:29:50.439 --> 1:29:54.760 and you've got PGA Tour event London, Australia pay per view. 1:29:54.800 --> 1:29:57.320 There's every incentive to make it as exciting as possible. 1:29:58.479 --> 1:30:01.240 I wonder if that would be feasible because one of 1:30:01.240 --> 1:30:04.160 my main concerns with the new model, and obviously there 1:30:04.160 --> 1:30:05.880 are a lot of details that we don't know yet 1:30:06.160 --> 1:30:08.240 is there going to be an incentive to make the 1:30:08.240 --> 1:30:11.080 product as exciting as possible, because Jay Monahan and others 1:30:11.080 --> 1:30:13.599 have demonstrated that if that incentive does not exist, they 1:30:13.640 --> 1:30:15.679 will not do it and things will have to get 1:30:15.680 --> 1:30:18.800 cleared by PGA tour players that are not necessarily within 1:30:18.840 --> 1:30:21.599 the best interest of the entertainment product. If you were 1:30:21.600 --> 1:30:23.400 in a pay per view model, you don't have that 1:30:24.200 --> 1:30:27.559 luxury you've got to sell. So I think it's something 1:30:27.600 --> 1:30:30.200 interesting to consider. Don't know how feasible that would be, 1:30:30.280 --> 1:30:33.640 but I'd almost love to see that idea tested and 1:30:33.920 --> 1:30:36.919 how that would kind of incentivize it would align incentives 1:30:36.920 --> 1:30:38.520 with what fans actually want to experience. 1:30:40.000 --> 1:30:42.479 That I mean, I think that's you know, gets to 1:30:42.520 --> 1:30:46.200 the heart of you know where this might go maybe 1:30:46.479 --> 1:30:50.559 or could go all of a sudden, you know, a 1:30:50.560 --> 1:30:54.800 big question. What's FedEx's involvement right when you start? But 1:30:54.880 --> 1:30:58.000 then also the television contracts, right, those are big long 1:30:58.080 --> 1:31:02.360 term contracts, tons of money involved. But one of the 1:31:02.400 --> 1:31:08.360 advantages of bringing a pif the piff and involvement one 1:31:08.360 --> 1:31:11.160 of the advantage, Like there was a report the other 1:31:11.280 --> 1:31:16.479 day about the group that is behind USC looking into 1:31:16.520 --> 1:31:19.000 an investment to live that didn't go, you know, a 1:31:19.040 --> 1:31:22.680 billion dollars that that did not do it because of 1:31:23.000 --> 1:31:25.400 their relationship with the tour and j Monaghan. 1:31:26.560 --> 1:31:30.439 So you start to look at all, right, maybe. 1:31:30.160 --> 1:31:33.760 Now that we're a for profit entity, maybe now that 1:31:33.800 --> 1:31:37.400 we can award equity, now that we can have investors. 1:31:37.840 --> 1:31:42.679 The way this whole thing operates is not around well, 1:31:43.360 --> 1:31:46.120 you know, we just got a billion dollars from FedEx 1:31:46.320 --> 1:31:48.920 and we have to do this right because this is 1:31:49.120 --> 1:31:53.600 we have. They are our you know, it's around investors 1:31:53.600 --> 1:31:56.200 putting money in and it probably will be the piff, 1:31:56.400 --> 1:31:59.120 which is the unpalatable thing. They have the first right 1:31:59.160 --> 1:32:05.720 of refusal on everything. But they are investing in ideas 1:32:05.760 --> 1:32:10.160 that actually improve the product of the golf, as opposed 1:32:10.200 --> 1:32:14.960 to a company investing money in order to get access 1:32:15.080 --> 1:32:19.519 to the product and to control the way the product 1:32:19.720 --> 1:32:23.960 is presented, such as a FedEx Cup update the first 1:32:24.120 --> 1:32:30.120 round of the first tournament of the year of the season, 1:32:30.280 --> 1:32:32.240 when it when literally nothing matters. 1:32:33.720 --> 1:32:35.439 So through line, I think the through line that you're 1:32:35.479 --> 1:32:38.680 hitting on is the extent to which you're beholden to 1:32:38.800 --> 1:32:41.040 sponsors and some of the rigidity. 1:32:41.160 --> 1:32:43.600 Or the members the members also. 1:32:44.000 --> 1:32:47.040 Absolutely absolutely, And I think when you look, when you 1:32:47.080 --> 1:32:48.519 zoom out a little bit and maybe look at some 1:32:48.560 --> 1:32:53.200 other sports, right Like I think the NBA is experimenting 1:32:53.240 --> 1:32:56.200 with some like last two minute broadcasts where if a 1:32:56.240 --> 1:32:58.160 game is exciting, you can tune in for the last 1:32:58.160 --> 1:33:02.679 two minutes, and just ways in which fans can engage 1:33:02.720 --> 1:33:06.720 with the product directly. There's every incentive to make the 1:33:06.760 --> 1:33:10.599 broadcast as palatable as possible. That that infrastructure doesn't really 1:33:10.680 --> 1:33:13.120 exist in golf, and so I'm hopeful that with this 1:33:13.160 --> 1:33:16.559 new for profit entity, whether it's pay per view, whether 1:33:16.600 --> 1:33:22.840 it's just less stringent contracts with broadcasting partners and other sponsors, 1:33:23.560 --> 1:33:25.200 hopefully that goes away. I think you've also made a 1:33:25.240 --> 1:33:29.160 great point with courses like Riviera, you had you had 1:33:29.200 --> 1:33:31.479 tweeted about this, like how many great golf courses are 1:33:31.520 --> 1:33:34.759 there that are willing to give their course over, stop 1:33:34.800 --> 1:33:36.880 member play for a few weeks and then have a 1:33:36.880 --> 1:33:39.880 PGA Tour event. You're constantly, unless you own the properties, 1:33:40.160 --> 1:33:45.519 constantly having to negotiate with those courses and sponsors. If 1:33:45.520 --> 1:33:47.800 you act, if you own that top to bottom, you 1:33:47.800 --> 1:33:49.519 don't have to worry about that as much. So I'm 1:33:49.520 --> 1:33:50.800 hopeful that that's where we're going. 1:33:51.120 --> 1:33:52.920 I mean, if you wanted to just zoom in on 1:33:52.960 --> 1:33:57.560 this golf course stadium type idea for a second, you know, yeah, 1:33:57.880 --> 1:34:00.920 I mean, these talent these cities are putting forth, you know, 1:34:01.479 --> 1:34:05.040 you know, billions of dollars for sports stadiums, a golf stadium, 1:34:05.240 --> 1:34:07.639 you know, a golf course with a stadium setting. 1:34:07.920 --> 1:34:09.760 You're talking about a fifty. 1:34:09.479 --> 1:34:12.880 Million dollar investment. Maybe maybe it's seventy five million for 1:34:13.040 --> 1:34:16.759 some added infrastructure, as opposed to these billions of dollars, 1:34:16.800 --> 1:34:19.519 And it could be you know, it's just a credit 1:34:19.600 --> 1:34:21.760 and you know, you think about it long term, it's 1:34:21.760 --> 1:34:24.760 like maybe it's used once week, one week a year 1:34:25.040 --> 1:34:28.760 as a as a stadium, but for the rest of 1:34:28.800 --> 1:34:32.479 the time it could actually be a public asset. Now again, 1:34:32.800 --> 1:34:37.599 going back, this is the glass half full perspective right there, 1:34:38.479 --> 1:34:40.639 where you could have like an influx of cool golf 1:34:40.640 --> 1:34:45.960 courses built. The pessimistic view is TPC design services, the 1:34:46.000 --> 1:34:50.240 tourist design services have never built anything interesting whatsoever. 1:34:50.360 --> 1:34:52.320 In fact, they've built a bunch of shit. 1:34:53.040 --> 1:34:57.040 And I wouldn't trust them to, you know, to draw 1:34:57.320 --> 1:34:58.760 a plan, let alone build a. 1:34:58.760 --> 1:35:00.599 Golf course if I was a in charge. 1:35:00.800 --> 1:35:04.000 So with that said, like these are all I think 1:35:04.040 --> 1:35:07.040 this is the balancing act here, right, is that this 1:35:07.200 --> 1:35:11.879 was an organization that got effectively backed into a corner 1:35:12.760 --> 1:35:15.760 because they could not foresee what was happening. And that's 1:35:15.760 --> 1:35:18.439 why we're here as opposed to them getting here on 1:35:18.479 --> 1:35:20.920 their own free will. Like, are they in a better 1:35:21.200 --> 1:35:24.160 situation than they were a week ago? If you take 1:35:24.200 --> 1:35:27.800 the moral aspect out of it, absolutely they are in 1:35:27.840 --> 1:35:29.440 a better situation. 1:35:29.920 --> 1:35:36.320 But they could have gotten here two years ago without 1:35:36.439 --> 1:35:39.519 having to make a deal with the you know, for 1:35:39.560 --> 1:35:41.719 all intense purposes, quote unquote devil. 1:35:43.080 --> 1:35:47.519 Look another thing you're hitting on that I think it's 1:35:48.800 --> 1:35:53.920 thing's important to not understate. I'm waiting into some dangerous 1:35:53.960 --> 1:35:56.080 waters here, and I don't really mean this in a 1:35:56.160 --> 1:36:00.760 legal sense, but how anti competitive the golf world was 1:36:01.240 --> 1:36:05.360 in its existing structure. I think it's it's hard to 1:36:05.840 --> 1:36:09.920 overstate so many examples the official World Golf rankings, in 1:36:09.960 --> 1:36:12.800 the way that that system worked and funneled everybody onto 1:36:12.840 --> 1:36:18.679 one tour. Just it is blatantly anti competitive. The way 1:36:18.720 --> 1:36:21.559 that you know, to get into the PGA Championship, which 1:36:22.080 --> 1:36:26.240 is not sanctioned by the PGA Tour. Some of the 1:36:26.240 --> 1:36:29.720 main criteria are things like official World Golf ranking and 1:36:30.000 --> 1:36:34.960 money earned in PGA Tour events. Like how entangled everything 1:36:35.360 --> 1:36:38.519 was and maybe still will be. It's hard to overstate. 1:36:38.560 --> 1:36:42.519 So I firmly believe that if Discovery had happened, there 1:36:42.520 --> 1:36:46.479 would have been some ugly, ugly details to emerge that 1:36:46.840 --> 1:36:50.919 showed some of the collusive behavior between some of these entities. 1:36:51.240 --> 1:36:54.040 And now my concern, I mean, the natural thought would be, well, 1:36:54.080 --> 1:36:59.000 now we just merged into one bigger conglomerate, so those 1:36:59.040 --> 1:37:05.160 anti competitive of concerns should still exist. Don't necessarily mean legally, 1:37:05.240 --> 1:37:07.320 like I don't know enough to get into those waters. 1:37:07.320 --> 1:37:12.040 But in terms of the pressure to innovate on your product, 1:37:13.000 --> 1:37:16.200 I don't know that the structure now is any more 1:37:16.240 --> 1:37:18.840 competitive than it was before. If anything, it's less. 1:37:19.280 --> 1:37:21.240 Yeah, I mean I think you hit on something. 1:37:21.280 --> 1:37:24.919 And from everything I've heard is that the discovery aspect 1:37:25.000 --> 1:37:29.360 of the collusion case that was about depositions were about 1:37:29.360 --> 1:37:33.639 to start, really provided the impetus for this move right. 1:37:33.960 --> 1:37:37.439 That was, you know, all of a sudden, everything was 1:37:37.520 --> 1:37:41.439 going to become open, open books for the world, and 1:37:41.720 --> 1:37:43.360 you would have seen, you know it would have gone 1:37:43.360 --> 1:37:46.599 down to augusta national who I'm sure really didn't want 1:37:46.640 --> 1:37:49.400 to be a part of this. I think you saw 1:37:49.479 --> 1:37:53.800 Real's Realley's comments about this being like a great you know, 1:37:54.000 --> 1:37:56.760 very good that we aren't fighting anymore. There's a big 1:37:56.800 --> 1:37:59.519 part of like, you know, I'm sure this club in 1:37:59.560 --> 1:38:02.679 Georgia that hosts it one tournament a year didn't really 1:38:02.720 --> 1:38:06.800 want everything to be you know, underpinned, and everything was collusive, 1:38:07.080 --> 1:38:10.040 you know it was. And the question I have is like, 1:38:11.280 --> 1:38:15.200 isn't it still an anti there's an anti trust investigation 1:38:15.280 --> 1:38:19.720 by the dj after after yesterday, does this feel like 1:38:19.880 --> 1:38:22.880 more of a of a monopoly? 1:38:23.920 --> 1:38:29.040 Brandle made this point on Golf Channel yesterday. If if 1:38:29.080 --> 1:38:33.320 this deal goes through, it's beneficial for the Saudist right 1:38:33.320 --> 1:38:35.200 because they they got what they wanted. They have a 1:38:35.240 --> 1:38:38.000 seat at the table. If it gets blocked, I think 1:38:38.040 --> 1:38:43.280 the PGA Tours in a much much worse position because 1:38:43.640 --> 1:38:46.679 they've shown their hand that either legally they were dead 1:38:46.800 --> 1:38:51.360 or financially they were in serious trouble. But b they've 1:38:51.400 --> 1:38:54.040 got no leg to stand on now that this this 1:38:54.080 --> 1:38:57.080 whole moral high ground and we're building a better product 1:38:57.120 --> 1:38:59.080 and you don't have to worry about the source of money. 1:38:59.720 --> 1:39:02.599 They compromised that. So if this were to fall apart, 1:39:02.720 --> 1:39:05.519 what stops players from just hopping over to live and 1:39:05.520 --> 1:39:09.560 saying like that, that's all out now, like you've abandoned 1:39:09.560 --> 1:39:13.120 that principle, or as you mentioned on the shotguns, start 1:39:13.840 --> 1:39:16.920 starting some kind of other league. I have no idea 1:39:17.000 --> 1:39:18.519 how hard that would be to do. But if some 1:39:18.560 --> 1:39:20.599 of those top players banded together and said, hey, we're 1:39:20.600 --> 1:39:23.360 not playing on this new combined entity. 1:39:23.120 --> 1:39:26.360 Either, what would that do. So there's a lot. 1:39:26.200 --> 1:39:28.880 That's unsettled here and I'm pretty interested in sitting back 1:39:28.920 --> 1:39:29.839 and watching it unfold. 1:39:30.360 --> 1:39:33.559 Yeah, and then we have the Canadian Open this week, 1:39:33.680 --> 1:39:36.800 then we have the US Open, and once again, this 1:39:37.000 --> 1:39:39.559 was the general theme of last year I felt, and 1:39:39.640 --> 1:39:43.520 it was it was exhausting. You get to these majors 1:39:43.680 --> 1:39:45.800 and it wasn't about the major and the lead up. 1:39:45.800 --> 1:39:48.080 It was about what's going on in golf. Next week's 1:39:48.120 --> 1:39:51.759 going to be no different than that. The golf starts, 1:39:51.840 --> 1:39:53.920 it becomes about the golf for four days and it's 1:39:54.000 --> 1:39:57.439 like your sanctuary. So I would say for people that 1:39:57.600 --> 1:40:00.759 are a little worn out about this, think that there's 1:40:00.840 --> 1:40:03.960 a you know, a general fatigue about this little war. 1:40:04.960 --> 1:40:08.400 You know, it's it's extremely rich people fighting with other 1:40:08.479 --> 1:40:14.160 extremely rich people, which is usually the least captivating argument 1:40:14.280 --> 1:40:17.800 and slash fight that you could have. You know, we're 1:40:17.840 --> 1:40:19.680 going to get to next week. It is going to 1:40:19.720 --> 1:40:23.320 be magical once the golf starts because of that. But 1:40:23.840 --> 1:40:26.479 in the meantime, with everybody together, it's going to be 1:40:26.560 --> 1:40:29.519 really fascinating to see how the cards fall. 1:40:30.200 --> 1:40:32.479 I mean, what are your thoughts for the Live players? 1:40:32.560 --> 1:40:35.280 What do you think the future of Live is? Because 1:40:35.280 --> 1:40:38.040 that I think is one of the really big questions 1:40:38.080 --> 1:40:38.479 out there. 1:40:39.000 --> 1:40:41.840 I think Live is dead. It seemed to me like 1:40:41.880 --> 1:40:46.519 it was already on life support. And if the Saudi's 1:40:46.560 --> 1:40:48.519 got what they wanted, which is a seat at the table, 1:40:48.560 --> 1:40:52.120 I don't see why they have any rooting interests in 1:40:52.200 --> 1:40:55.479 Live surviving. I don't think the concept of Live worked. 1:40:55.560 --> 1:40:58.639 People weren't very engaged with it outside of maybe turning 1:40:58.720 --> 1:41:01.880 up for the Austria Billion event and being really. 1:41:01.760 --> 1:41:02.559 Excited about that. 1:41:02.600 --> 1:41:06.639 But I don't see if the future of Live being 1:41:06.720 --> 1:41:09.040 very bright. What's gonna happen to the players is going 1:41:09.080 --> 1:41:11.440 to be interesting. I think there's gonna be some negotiations 1:41:11.479 --> 1:41:15.679 between top players on Live, top players on the PGA 1:41:15.760 --> 1:41:19.360 Tour figuring out what a reasonable compromise will be. Wouldn't 1:41:19.360 --> 1:41:20.960 be surprised if some of these middle of the road 1:41:20.960 --> 1:41:24.240 PGA Tour players get completely shafted. If you were thinking 1:41:24.240 --> 1:41:26.639 about taking a twenty million dollar deal to join Live 1:41:26.680 --> 1:41:28.880 and you stayed, I don't think there's gonna be any 1:41:28.920 --> 1:41:31.240 compensation for you waiting on the other end. But if 1:41:31.240 --> 1:41:35.679 you're Rory, John, Rahm, Morikawa, maybe even somebody like Ricky Fowler, 1:41:36.439 --> 1:41:40.240 I think they'll have a voice in what that reconciliation 1:41:40.360 --> 1:41:43.760 process looks like. Are the live golfers fined? Are they 1:41:43.760 --> 1:41:44.880 suspended for a year? 1:41:45.080 --> 1:41:48.800 What are they going to find them? Two hundred thousand dollars? 1:41:48.840 --> 1:41:53.000 Like the PGA Tour is just spineless when it comes 1:41:53.000 --> 1:41:53.720 to find. 1:41:54.240 --> 1:41:57.160 I don't know if I mean, aren't the players going 1:41:57.240 --> 1:41:58.760 to have to weigh in on that? Or you don't 1:41:58.800 --> 1:42:00.439 think their voice is going to be don't think Roy 1:42:00.520 --> 1:42:01.640 kicklroy'svoice would be heard on that? 1:42:02.240 --> 1:42:02.519 Well. 1:42:02.600 --> 1:42:05.519 I think the other aspect of this is like Yaser, 1:42:05.720 --> 1:42:10.679 you know Yoster's involvement now and effectively the the guys 1:42:10.720 --> 1:42:14.639 that that joined him there. This is all about money. 1:42:14.800 --> 1:42:17.400 This was all about money and power. This was all 1:42:17.439 --> 1:42:21.320 about the Saudi Arabian government getting their hooks into golf. 1:42:22.040 --> 1:42:25.400 They did that because of a the ineptitude of the 1:42:25.400 --> 1:42:29.960 PGA tour, but b because people like Phil Micholson, Bryson 1:42:30.000 --> 1:42:34.679 de Shamba, Brooke to Kopka, Dustin Johnson took took a chance. 1:42:35.479 --> 1:42:39.840 I do not think, you know, Rory McElroy made the 1:42:39.840 --> 1:42:42.600 point that chased their boss. I do not think that 1:42:42.760 --> 1:42:47.480 Yasser is going to sit by and allow those players 1:42:47.520 --> 1:42:52.080 to be absolutely hammered forgetting him what he wanted. 1:42:52.120 --> 1:42:55.280 But it's a cold world. It's about money and power. 1:42:55.400 --> 1:42:58.240 Maybe that is what happens, but I just don't see 1:42:58.280 --> 1:43:02.720 a world where, you know, I think if you were 1:43:02.840 --> 1:43:04.640 if this was and this is the thing, is that 1:43:04.760 --> 1:43:08.840 if this, if the tour wasn't so leveraged, if they 1:43:08.880 --> 1:43:12.040 were able to have operated, if Jay had taken this 1:43:12.120 --> 1:43:16.680 seriously from day one, right, and they get Phil and 1:43:16.760 --> 1:43:20.040 DJ to go right off the bat, maybe you act 1:43:20.200 --> 1:43:23.000 quickly and go with another you know, you put together 1:43:23.040 --> 1:43:25.280 a group and you do this right away. This was 1:43:25.320 --> 1:43:28.160 clearly they had to go for profit. That was the 1:43:28.680 --> 1:43:31.200 from the onset of this. If you go back and 1:43:31.240 --> 1:43:33.479 listen to the podcast. That's what we talked about from 1:43:33.520 --> 1:43:36.599 the onset. This was the resolution that had to happen 1:43:37.360 --> 1:43:40.120 if they had been able to do this without the 1:43:40.280 --> 1:43:43.720 involvement of the piff and the involvement of the of 1:43:43.760 --> 1:43:47.960 the person who coerced these players to come play for 1:43:48.080 --> 1:43:51.639 him and get him this seat at the table, and 1:43:51.920 --> 1:43:55.479 who knows what the ten year outlook of being at 1:43:55.560 --> 1:43:59.799 this table is. You know how that power gradually increases. 1:43:59.840 --> 1:44:02.439 He's not gonna have a ton of power right off 1:44:02.479 --> 1:44:02.880 the bat. 1:44:03.160 --> 1:44:04.240 But I can't. 1:44:03.920 --> 1:44:08.439 Imagine that person is gonna let all those those players, 1:44:08.920 --> 1:44:13.240 especially the big names that came be really hammered by 1:44:13.320 --> 1:44:13.920 j Monahan. 1:44:14.840 --> 1:44:16.200 We'll see, it's gonna be fascinating. 1:44:16.200 --> 1:44:19.080 Not everybody can be happy, right And I think ultimately 1:44:19.120 --> 1:44:21.320 the PGA Tour players will probably get the short end 1:44:21.320 --> 1:44:22.880 of the stick here in the middle. 1:44:22.880 --> 1:44:23.960 I think the middle of the road. 1:44:24.000 --> 1:44:27.240 I think you're right, like, is is John rom gonna 1:44:27.240 --> 1:44:30.680 get three hundred four hundred million dollars because of this? 1:44:30.840 --> 1:44:33.800 No? But I think he's going to get something. He's 1:44:33.840 --> 1:44:34.839 going to get a carrot. 1:44:35.120 --> 1:44:37.439 I think maybe what it could look like is some 1:44:37.600 --> 1:44:42.200 massive fund, some prize pool put together for like twenty 1:44:42.240 --> 1:44:45.720 twenty four, Like if the Tour Championship is like just 1:44:45.800 --> 1:44:50.280 given an enormous purse and then live players are ineligible 1:44:50.280 --> 1:44:52.519 for it or something like that, like some kind of 1:44:53.080 --> 1:44:55.519 indirect way of funneling or they just cut him checks. 1:44:55.520 --> 1:44:58.160 But that's gonna get really hairy if that's the solution. 1:44:58.920 --> 1:45:01.880 Yeah, And then like as anything, and this is like 1:45:01.920 --> 1:45:03.840 one of the things with the PIP that was always 1:45:03.920 --> 1:45:06.439 like a head scratcher, is like where's the drawing line? 1:45:06.520 --> 1:45:11.840 Where do you so eleven gets nothing, ten gets something 1:45:11.840 --> 1:45:14.759 and eleven gets nothing? Like you know at that point 1:45:14.800 --> 1:45:17.519 when you if you're talking about just cutting these guys checks, 1:45:18.240 --> 1:45:20.479 where do you draw the line? Like does will zal 1:45:20.600 --> 1:45:23.280 tours Who's you know, this is not a shot at 1:45:23.280 --> 1:45:25.360 will Zale Torris who's played a year and a half 1:45:25.400 --> 1:45:28.439 of good golf in his career, maybe two years of 1:45:28.479 --> 1:45:31.000 great golf in his career. Does he deserve a check 1:45:31.200 --> 1:45:33.600 even though he turned down one hundred million dollars. 1:45:34.200 --> 1:45:36.600 I don't know on the other side of this, just 1:45:36.600 --> 1:45:40.080 to not play both sides, but I think we can 1:45:40.120 --> 1:45:44.240 sometimes maybe over glorify the reasons that some of. 1:45:44.240 --> 1:45:45.839 The PGA Tour players stayed. 1:45:46.560 --> 1:45:49.559 Personally, I think everybody was acting within their own self 1:45:49.560 --> 1:45:51.920 interest and betting on The people who stayed were mostly 1:45:51.960 --> 1:45:54.800 betting on the future of the PGA Tour. The people 1:45:54.800 --> 1:45:57.880 who left were taking a huge pay cut. I don't 1:45:57.880 --> 1:46:01.120 think this was like a good versus evil situation, and 1:46:01.160 --> 1:46:05.439 so to some extent, the cards fell where they did, 1:46:05.520 --> 1:46:07.360 and some people are gonna lose out, and it was 1:46:08.080 --> 1:46:09.760 it didn't go as well for some people as it 1:46:09.800 --> 1:46:11.519 went for others. Like they're gonna be some PGA Tour 1:46:11.520 --> 1:46:14.000 players who get shafted here and that's just how it's 1:46:14.040 --> 1:46:15.040 gonna play out. 1:46:15.120 --> 1:46:16.080 But we'll see. 1:46:16.439 --> 1:46:20.240 I've I've been wondering, like you know, I jmon, hand 1:46:20.240 --> 1:46:22.240 he kind of signed off, like you're gonna hear from 1:46:22.240 --> 1:46:25.719 me at early in Travelers where if not sooner. 1:46:26.479 --> 1:46:29.280 I wonder if like live is just over after the 1:46:29.400 --> 1:46:30.000 US Open. 1:46:31.280 --> 1:46:32.840 Yeah, I would think they'll let them play the rest 1:46:32.840 --> 1:46:35.719 of the season out, but I don't I don't see why. 1:46:35.800 --> 1:46:38.240 I mean, if they're contractually obligated, then maybe they will, 1:46:38.320 --> 1:46:39.800 but no one's watching live. 1:46:39.840 --> 1:46:40.400 I think it's over. 1:46:41.200 --> 1:46:42.400 Yeah, I don't know. 1:46:42.520 --> 1:46:45.519 I think like maybe I you know, if I think 1:46:45.560 --> 1:46:49.280 about it, it's a utopian, you know thought, But maybe 1:46:49.360 --> 1:46:53.200 it's a you know, not live but a team concept 1:46:53.200 --> 1:46:56.000 in twenty twenty five and you already have the guys signed. 1:46:56.040 --> 1:46:59.160 I don't know. I don't know how that an individual Yeah, 1:46:59.200 --> 1:47:00.680 I think I could see that. I don't know. 1:47:02.640 --> 1:47:05.240 I think I think individual and team tournaments work. That's 1:47:05.240 --> 1:47:09.240 how college college golf works. That's how every college golf 1:47:09.240 --> 1:47:11.920 tournament is. That's how every high school golf tournament is. 1:47:12.280 --> 1:47:15.320 You know, it is a you know, is a is 1:47:15.360 --> 1:47:18.439 a format when you do stroke play like it works. 1:47:18.560 --> 1:47:19.439 I don't know. 1:47:20.680 --> 1:47:23.120 I think that when you start to think about a 1:47:23.120 --> 1:47:29.439 for profit entity, how how do you build value? You know, 1:47:29.560 --> 1:47:32.240 especially with sponsors. Right, would you rather have a sponsor 1:47:32.280 --> 1:47:36.559 sponsor a team or a tournament and have undue influence 1:47:36.600 --> 1:47:37.160 on a tournament? 1:47:37.240 --> 1:47:39.240 Which would you rather have team? 1:47:39.320 --> 1:47:43.720 If that can be a compelling product. I don't know 1:47:43.760 --> 1:47:47.280 at the professional level, if the team concept works, But 1:47:47.520 --> 1:47:49.360 I guess there's just gonna have to be some experimentation. 1:47:50.040 --> 1:47:53.040 Yeah, I mean it's you know, do you want the. 1:47:54.720 --> 1:47:57.519 Golf to look more like the Premier League and like 1:47:57.880 --> 1:48:00.800 uh F one in its formatting, or do you want 1:48:00.840 --> 1:48:03.439 it to look more like tennis? I think that's like, 1:48:03.960 --> 1:48:06.439 you know, that's the question, that's it, and I don't. 1:48:06.520 --> 1:48:08.920 I don't know the answer. I think it it can 1:48:09.000 --> 1:48:13.360 work either way. I think that that the intrinsic value 1:48:13.560 --> 1:48:16.840 the the general fan interests that you I think when 1:48:16.880 --> 1:48:20.840 you look at general fan interest, teams are something that 1:48:20.880 --> 1:48:24.759 they that that general fan interest galvanizes. And we've heard 1:48:25.320 --> 1:48:30.559 the absurd things about Yasser bryceon on CNN, all about 1:48:30.600 --> 1:48:34.960 growing the game, but when you think about the fundamental 1:48:35.040 --> 1:48:37.920 of growing the game, I think the team format does 1:48:38.000 --> 1:48:42.240 have a much higher ceiling in doing that he heard. 1:48:42.680 --> 1:48:45.000 But I think I don't follow that one particularly closely. 1:48:45.040 --> 1:48:47.360 But I know that part of the compelling storylines with 1:48:47.479 --> 1:48:51.040 f one like how is this team investing in its technology? 1:48:51.080 --> 1:48:53.640 And like this engineer made a mistake. There's there's this 1:48:53.800 --> 1:48:57.920 these components of the team that people are drawn to. 1:48:58.360 --> 1:49:00.960 And so I think the only way that works in 1:49:01.040 --> 1:49:03.680 golf as if the teams have a true identity, if 1:49:03.680 --> 1:49:07.040 it's sort of a free agency where captains are picking 1:49:07.080 --> 1:49:09.559 golfers from all over the world and just kind of 1:49:09.560 --> 1:49:12.360 putting together three of their friends to be on a team. 1:49:12.840 --> 1:49:14.080 I don't think that works. 1:49:14.120 --> 1:49:16.559 I think there's got to be a regional element, something 1:49:16.600 --> 1:49:18.280 that ties these guys together. 1:49:18.800 --> 1:49:22.920 Well, I think that first part, you know, where Live succeeded. 1:49:22.960 --> 1:49:25.800 Where was the highest interest in Live And it was 1:49:25.960 --> 1:49:29.439 just unfolding just this week about Matt Wolf and you know, 1:49:29.720 --> 1:49:34.160 again like interesting aspects of Live were always when player 1:49:34.320 --> 1:49:38.360 signed and it was unfolding with Matt Wolf and you know, 1:49:38.560 --> 1:49:41.679 not wanting to play and effectively, you know, being kicked 1:49:41.680 --> 1:49:42.280 off the team. 1:49:42.600 --> 1:49:43.760 That was interesting to me. 1:49:44.520 --> 1:49:48.400 I think where where golf has some interest ability, it 1:49:48.439 --> 1:49:52.720 would be the team's trades. You know, guy player X 1:49:52.800 --> 1:49:55.080 goes in a slump as he benched, you know, like 1:49:55.160 --> 1:49:57.599 the idea of that, like, you know, it is a 1:49:57.880 --> 1:50:02.599 that would be I think compelling. But you know, crazy 1:50:02.680 --> 1:50:05.519 day in golf. I think we've hit on kind of 1:50:05.600 --> 1:50:08.679 where this could go a lot. Do you have any 1:50:08.920 --> 1:50:12.640 parting thoughts on what happened yesterday? 1:50:13.240 --> 1:50:14.959 Yeah, a lot. I mean I'm excited. 1:50:15.160 --> 1:50:18.599 I actually do think this is I think we landed 1:50:18.600 --> 1:50:20.280 in a much better place than we could have a 1:50:20.320 --> 1:50:23.720 year ago. I was pretty pessimistic about the prospect of 1:50:24.479 --> 1:50:29.560 defections and then Live running the entire professional golf landscape. 1:50:29.640 --> 1:50:31.920 I think the fact that the PGA tour still has 1:50:31.960 --> 1:50:35.920 control is beneficial for the fans. Getting all the same 1:50:36.040 --> 1:50:37.720 the best players in the world back under the same 1:50:37.840 --> 1:50:40.680 roof beneficial for the fans. I'd like to see j 1:50:40.840 --> 1:50:43.040 Monahan go, and I don't think it's just Jay Monahan. 1:50:43.680 --> 1:50:46.960 I think there need to be a lot of fresh faces. Sorry, 1:50:47.240 --> 1:50:51.000 wholesale change, Yes, I think there need to be wholesale changes. 1:50:51.160 --> 1:50:54.960 We need to get some fresh perspectives, open things up 1:50:55.000 --> 1:50:57.040 a little bit, change the way the PGA Tour has 1:50:57.120 --> 1:51:00.400 viewed itself, and I'm optimistic about the future. 1:51:00.800 --> 1:51:04.720 All right, Joseph, thanks for your time, and well I'm 1:51:04.760 --> 1:51:07.799 sure talk about this many more times as it continues 1:51:07.840 --> 1:51:08.360 to develop. 1:51:08.720 --> 1:51:09.840 Sounds good, Thanks for having me. 1:51:19.520 --> 1:51:23.760 Thank you for listening to another edition of the Friday Podcast. 1:51:24.040 --> 1:51:27.599 Today's episode was produced by Matt Russ's. 1:51:28.320 --> 1:51:31.400 Thank you Matt. This was a big episode. 1:51:32.800 --> 1:51:35.800 I think this story obviously is going to change by 1:51:35.840 --> 1:51:39.599 the hour, by the day, and I wanted to make 1:51:39.640 --> 1:51:43.679 this podcast a little bit focused on where it might go. 1:51:44.439 --> 1:51:46.640 You know, some basics, but then you know where it 1:51:46.720 --> 1:51:49.400 might go. So thanks for listening. As a quick reminder, 1:51:49.439 --> 1:51:49.760 we got. 1:51:49.680 --> 1:51:50.880 The US open next week. 1:51:51.280 --> 1:51:53.639 We will be on site a lot of us will 1:51:53.680 --> 1:51:55.840 be there from our team. We've got a bunch of 1:51:55.840 --> 1:51:59.400 stuff cooked up, free content on the on the YouTube channel, 1:51:59.520 --> 1:52:02.680 social media. The newsletter will be humming every day of 1:52:02.680 --> 1:52:05.800 the week, but we will also have daily content on 1:52:06.760 --> 1:52:09.000 Club TFE. So if you have it yet, this is 1:52:09.040 --> 1:52:12.040 the best way to support us. It keeps it helps 1:52:12.120 --> 1:52:16.559 keep us independent and helps us grow and and really 1:52:16.760 --> 1:52:19.800 do more. That's what we want, you know, it's we 1:52:19.840 --> 1:52:23.639 want to do more free content, more podcasts, more videos, 1:52:24.560 --> 1:52:28.200 but also more really cool stuff that we like doing, 1:52:28.400 --> 1:52:30.720 like in clubtf that has nothing to do with this, 1:52:31.680 --> 1:52:35.400 you know, PGA Tour, Pith of Merger really for the 1:52:35.400 --> 1:52:38.839 most part. So if you're into golf courses, that's probably 1:52:39.479 --> 1:52:42.000 a great place for you to be. If you go 1:52:42.080 --> 1:52:45.240 to the Frida egg dot com slash membership you can 1:52:45.840 --> 1:52:48.160 see all the basics. It's one hundred and twenty dollars 1:52:48.240 --> 1:52:52.840 a year and that really helps us build our business 1:52:52.600 --> 1:52:54.040 and you know. 1:52:54.040 --> 1:52:55.680 Continue to do what we love to do. 1:52:56.040 --> 1:52:59.200 So thank you for everybody that's supported us this year, 1:52:59.280 --> 1:53:03.599 whether it's merchandise anything, and this has really been an 1:53:03.600 --> 1:53:07.160 awesome year and can't wait for next week's US Open, 1:53:07.280 --> 1:53:10.120 especially we get to the golf and we don't have 1:53:10.200 --> 1:53:14.679 to talk about this crazy stuff, so thank you. And 1:53:15.040 --> 1:53:19.160 we will be back on Sunday with a US Open 1:53:19.240 --> 1:53:22.479 preview with Jeff Shackelford, so that's coming soon. 1:53:22.800 --> 1:53:24.960 So thank you guys. We'll talk soon.