WEBVTT - What's the deal with fluoride? 0:00:00.800 --> 0:00:02.800 And are you doing any traveling this summer? 0:00:03.240 --> 0:00:07.960 We did some traveling, but now I'm just around around Providence. 0:00:07.960 --> 0:00:08.879 How about you. 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:12.239 We are headed to Italy shortly. I'm very excited, first 0:00:12.240 --> 0:00:14.680 time I've ever been there. It's a dream, lifelong dream. 0:00:15.360 --> 0:00:19.120 But when my family travels, there's this one thing that happens, 0:00:19.160 --> 0:00:22.840 like a week beforehand, and that, for whatever reason, is 0:00:22.840 --> 0:00:26.560 my children panicking about is it safe to drink the water? 0:00:27.200 --> 0:00:31.920 And I think this started. This is probably my fault 0:00:32.120 --> 0:00:35.480 because we went to Morocco on a family vacation once 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:38.600 and I was like, oh, I mean, you know, there's 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:41.640 maybe not the best water. And I bought these like 0:00:41.760 --> 0:00:45.000 life straw water bottles so you could put you know, 0:00:45.040 --> 0:00:47.360 these high tech filtered water bottles, and we all had 0:00:47.360 --> 0:00:49.639 one and they were expensive. And now the kids are 0:00:49.640 --> 0:00:53.200 convinced that water everywhere will kill you. Do you guys 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:55.280 worry about this at all when you travel? 0:00:56.240 --> 0:00:59.120 No, not in it. So that's not in Europe. 0:00:59.280 --> 0:01:00.720 It's a Wilson neurosis. 0:01:00.920 --> 0:01:03.160 There are places I would not drink the water, but 0:01:03.280 --> 0:01:06.319 I would never carry a water straw thing. You know, 0:01:06.360 --> 0:01:09.080 those are for like when you're in the like in 0:01:09.120 --> 0:01:11.280 the woods and it's like the water is full of 0:01:11.360 --> 0:01:14.640 like those are not for like your europe those are 0:01:14.640 --> 0:01:15.800 not for European vacations. 0:01:15.800 --> 0:01:18.320 It's not fun. It's not when I'm drinking water fresh 0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:21.760 from the alpine streams of Lake Como or whatever. I 0:01:21.800 --> 0:01:25.479 was thinking about this because we're talking about floride today 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:29.240 and in many parts of the world, not Europe and 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:31.360 not the United States, but in many parts of the world, 0:01:31.640 --> 0:01:34.679 whether the water is safe to drink is a very 0:01:34.720 --> 0:01:37.880 reasonable question to ask. And there are obviously many millions 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:39.800 and millions of people living in the world who don't 0:01:39.800 --> 0:01:42.520 have access to clean, safe drinking water. And I was 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:45.280 thinking about that in sort of the like, we're very 0:01:45.360 --> 0:01:49.040 lucky here in the United States to have a broadly 0:01:49.120 --> 0:01:52.680 safe water system. Not everywhere. Flint, Michigan, I see you, 0:01:52.720 --> 0:01:56.240 it's okay, but like you know, broadly speaking standards in place, 0:01:56.760 --> 0:02:01.080 and yet despite that, we can still have an incredible 0:02:01.080 --> 0:02:03.240 debate about whether the water's poisoning our children. 0:02:03.680 --> 0:02:05.720 I think in a way it's because of that, because 0:02:05.760 --> 0:02:09.919 actually it is only when everything is basically going pretty 0:02:09.919 --> 0:02:13.440 good that you are able to argue about things that 0:02:13.639 --> 0:02:17.040 do not matter at all, or already matter a little 0:02:17.040 --> 0:02:18.239 bit in either direction. 0:02:19.080 --> 0:02:22.360 Will arguing on the margins if there's nothing else that 0:02:22.360 --> 0:02:25.240 summarizes the wellness actually podcast, that is it? 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:26.079 That is it? 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:26.680 That is it? 0:02:26.720 --> 0:02:31.840 All right, let's get into it. I'm Emily Aster, I'm 0:02:31.840 --> 0:02:33.560 an economist and a data expert. 0:02:33.639 --> 0:02:35.720 And I'm Perry Wilson, I'm a medical doctor. 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:40.480 It's Thursday, August thirteenth, twenty twenty six. And this is wellness. 0:02:39.919 --> 0:02:43.720 Actually because you're getting a staggering amount of health and 0:02:43.760 --> 0:02:47.760 wellness information nowadays from every source imaginable, and some of 0:02:47.800 --> 0:02:49.560 it is awesome and some. 0:02:49.600 --> 0:02:54.800 Of it is well actually both Fortunately we are both 0:02:54.840 --> 0:02:57.400 people who know how to read studies, how to parse 0:02:57.440 --> 0:02:59.880 the data, and can tell you what's worth thinking about 0:03:00.200 --> 0:03:01.960 and what you can safely ignore. 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:04.560 But before we dig in, a note that this podcast 0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:07.200 is for educational purposes and should not be construed as 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:10.440 medical advice. We don't know your unique situation, so talk 0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:12.600 to your doctor for personal health decisions. 0:03:13.840 --> 0:03:17.280 This week we're asking what's the deal with floride? Harry 0:03:17.320 --> 0:03:19.520 and I will give the official smasher pass, and then 0:03:19.520 --> 0:03:21.880 we'll get to your question of the week. But first, 0:03:21.960 --> 0:03:24.600 let's do the health news roundup after the break. 0:03:36.400 --> 0:03:39.040 And We're back with the health news of the week. Emily. 0:03:39.400 --> 0:03:44.480 We've got some interesting information about this weird flavored vapes decision. 0:03:44.680 --> 0:03:48.320 And for constant listeners of the Wellness Actually podcast, you'll 0:03:48.720 --> 0:03:52.520 recall that in an episode a while back, we were 0:03:52.560 --> 0:03:58.120 talking about the rumor of the impending firing of FDA 0:03:58.160 --> 0:04:02.440 Commissioner Marty McCarey. He was then subsequently fired. That's the 0:04:02.480 --> 0:04:06.960 Wellness Actually curse well described. But we had speculated there 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:10.600 was weird stuff going on regarding his potential firing and 0:04:10.720 --> 0:04:12.880 flavored vapes. And let me just play you the clip 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:14.000 from that episode. 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:19.640 It seems like some of the reportings suggested that part 0:04:19.680 --> 0:04:22.360 of the problem is he has been unwilling to follow 0:04:22.400 --> 0:04:26.279 through on some of the requests of the administration, including 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:31.320 a request to approve fruit flavored vapes. He didn't want 0:04:31.360 --> 0:04:34.120 to approve fruit flavored vapes because it seemed like they 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:38.080 would be appealing to children, which seems right to me, 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:41.839 But the administration wanted fruit flavored vapes and I think 0:04:41.839 --> 0:04:43.279 they have now been approved. 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:47.160 Yeah, that seems like just not a great idea and 0:04:47.240 --> 0:04:49.919 also like what a weird thing for the White House 0:04:49.960 --> 0:04:57.800 to lobby hair. So Emily new information has come to light, 0:04:58.240 --> 0:05:00.320 and I thought, maybe you could tell us what we 0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:03.400 know now was going on behind the scenes in this 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:08.400 bizarre decision for the FDA to authorize flavored vape sales. 0:05:09.080 --> 0:05:12.159 So there's a lot more going on here, I think 0:05:12.200 --> 0:05:16.240 than perhaps we initially recognized. Ron Wyden, who's a top 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:18.960 Democrat on the Finance Committee, has now launched an inquiry. 0:05:19.480 --> 0:05:22.400 That's the favorite thing of the That's what the Senate 0:05:22.560 --> 0:05:23.760 and represent. 0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:25.159 That's what they loved inquiries of Chris. 0:05:25.200 --> 0:05:29.800 They love inquiries. But Kennedy had sent him a letter 0:05:30.400 --> 0:05:35.240 and basically a pro tobacco superpack made a large donation 0:05:35.520 --> 0:05:39.159 to a Trump aligned super pack, about five million dollars. 0:05:39.680 --> 0:05:43.080 Then everyone met, presumably in a smoky room because it's 0:05:43.080 --> 0:05:46.840 the tobacco industry, at mar Largo. And then after that 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:52.320 Trump called Kennedy, Oz and FDA Commissioner Marty McCarey and 0:05:52.560 --> 0:05:54.640 told them. We don't know what he told them, but 0:05:54.720 --> 0:06:00.240 immediately afterwards the flavored vapes were approved. And so it 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:02.800 it seems like someone paid for this. That's my that's 0:06:02.839 --> 0:06:05.039 my read. That's with my tin hat on. Someone paid 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:05.279 for this. 0:06:05.440 --> 0:06:08.720 Yeah, I mean, also I want to point out that 0:06:08.800 --> 0:06:11.960 this was such a strange decision from FDA, which you know, 0:06:12.040 --> 0:06:16.720 and Marty McCarey and RFK Junior, who you know are 0:06:16.760 --> 0:06:20.680 many things, but not really tobacco promoters in any way. 0:06:20.839 --> 0:06:24.400 And flavored vapes, just to say it out loud, make 0:06:24.720 --> 0:06:28.280 vaping easier and more attractive to children. That's the major 0:06:28.680 --> 0:06:31.640 that's the major issue with it. Apparently Marty McCarey at 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:34.560 FDA had been very resistant to approving flavored vapes. That's 0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:38.039 what we were talking about, and now we know. Nevertheless, 0:06:38.040 --> 0:06:41.080 they were approved, and now we know that I'll make 0:06:41.120 --> 0:06:47.920 one correction. According to Wyden's letter to Kennedy, Trump called 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:52.080 RFK Junior, memodads and Marty McCarey at the meeting, not 0:06:52.160 --> 0:06:55.039 after the meeting, at the meeting, while the tobacco execs 0:06:55.040 --> 0:06:57.520 were there at mar A Lago. So it certainly feels 0:06:57.560 --> 0:07:00.680 like a, hey, we need to authorize flavored vapes. Don't 0:07:00.720 --> 0:07:02.560 know that for sure, but it does explain a bit 0:07:02.600 --> 0:07:04.800 of a mystery that we were curious about on a 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:05.680 prior episode. 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:09.680 Wonderful getting to the bottom of all kinds of things 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:11.840 and finding the bottom is even worse than. 0:07:11.760 --> 0:07:14.240 One lower than you mentioned. 0:07:16.240 --> 0:07:19.280 All Right, next up, we've got a new executive order 0:07:19.320 --> 0:07:22.800 about vaccines. There's been a lot of discussion about vaccines. 0:07:23.200 --> 0:07:25.320 This is something that OURFA Junior and Trump appear to 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:30.160 be aligned on their feelings that vaccines aren't their favorite. 0:07:30.440 --> 0:07:35.600 Last winter, RFK Junior tried to introduce a new vaccine 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:38.560 schedule by just saying what it should be. This is 0:07:38.560 --> 0:07:42.080 not the typical approach that has been struck down by 0:07:42.120 --> 0:07:44.440 the courts, along with many other things that they've tried 0:07:44.480 --> 0:07:47.200 to do. But now Trump has issued an executive order 0:07:47.640 --> 0:07:51.000 that calls for a smaller number of childhood shots, spacing 0:07:51.000 --> 0:07:54.320 them out more, and he's made some comments just going 0:07:54.360 --> 0:07:57.000 to play the clip of his feelings about this. 0:07:57.560 --> 0:08:01.160 At one year, you should have five separate visits for 0:08:01.320 --> 0:08:04.720 vaccines rather than getting them all in the same day. 0:08:05.640 --> 0:08:07.720 And I saw this early on, and I've seen proof 0:08:07.760 --> 0:08:10.240 of it where they have a vaccination that looks like 0:08:10.320 --> 0:08:14.560 the size of a bottle of soda poured into a 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:19.440 little child's body, and bad things happen in many cases, 0:08:19.480 --> 0:08:22.800 in too many cases, because this is an explosion, This 0:08:22.880 --> 0:08:23.800 is an epidemic. 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:26.600 All right, Perry, what do you think. 0:08:28.880 --> 0:08:30.880 I know I've said this before, but I don't like 0:08:31.000 --> 0:08:36.840 how people can just say things that aren't true. I know, 0:08:36.880 --> 0:08:39.280 it's like, I'm so naive to think that we should 0:08:39.280 --> 0:08:42.760 expect our public officials or people on Twitter or influencers 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:46.680 to cite their sources or you know, have a basis 0:08:46.720 --> 0:08:50.360 in fact for what they're saying. It is obviously false 0:08:50.520 --> 0:08:55.040 that babies get a coke bottle worth of injections. They 0:08:55.160 --> 0:08:59.880 get a couple of millimeters, you know, drop volumes. Like, 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:03.840 I don't know what he's talking about. There's other inconsistencies 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:06.640 in this executive order. I mean, he says, oh, we 0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:10.400 should split up the MMR vaccine. Okay, first of all, 0:09:10.600 --> 0:09:15.040 there is no company or individual measles and mumps and 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:18.080 rebella vaccine that does not exist, so someone has to Now, 0:09:18.440 --> 0:09:22.400 I guess make that. He's also calling for kids to 0:09:22.480 --> 0:09:28.280 have five individual pediatrician visits to get these separate vaccines, 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:32.160 you know, presumably like how difficult is it to access 0:09:32.160 --> 0:09:35.000 healthcare in the country to begin with, and all of 0:09:35.000 --> 0:09:38.559 this language of like, oh, this is giving parent parental choice, right, 0:09:38.600 --> 0:09:40.720 this is like you know, you want the measles but 0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:42.680 not the mumps, and you want the rebella but not 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:47.800 the measles vaccine. This administration and I don't try to 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:50.480 get politically here, but when it comes to issues like this, 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:55.520 it's very clear that they are anti public health. Like 0:09:55.880 --> 0:10:00.400 as a concept, they are incredibly pro individualistic. It's a 0:10:00.440 --> 0:10:04.720 hyper individualistic political movement, which is why there's resistance, you know, 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:08.480 to any kind of top down like here's the vaccine schedule. 0:10:08.520 --> 0:10:11.040 Everything should be. You know, you can do what you want, 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:12.280 you can do what you want, you can do what 0:10:12.320 --> 0:10:15.480 you want. But the central thesis of public health is 0:10:15.520 --> 0:10:17.280 that there are certain things that we kind of have 0:10:17.360 --> 0:10:21.160 to do broadly because if we don't, it doesn't work. 0:10:21.320 --> 0:10:24.200 And it's not just vaccines, it's you know, it's adding 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:28.240 iodine to salt. It's like all of this stuff that 0:10:28.320 --> 0:10:32.880 has changed the landscape of diseases over the century, and 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:35.880 it's like getting thrown away. It's very frustrating. 0:10:35.920 --> 0:10:39.239 Sorry, it's very frustrating. But I actually think there's a 0:10:39.600 --> 0:10:41.920 there's another piece of this for me, as someone who 0:10:41.920 --> 0:10:44.040 spends all their time talking to parents, which is that 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:48.400 it's not that parents come away with this feeling empowered 0:10:48.480 --> 0:10:51.000 and like, you know, now I can choose which vaccines 0:10:51.040 --> 0:10:54.319 I get. You know, people come away feeling confused. 0:10:54.640 --> 0:10:56.600 Yeah, they're confused. 0:10:56.200 --> 0:10:59.800 And they don't actually want by and large, the responsibility 0:10:59.840 --> 0:11:04.040 of evaluating what is the set of vaccines that are 0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:07.480 that I need. People have other stuff to do. That 0:11:07.640 --> 0:11:10.920 is why we have expertise for evaluating which vaccines are 0:11:10.960 --> 0:11:13.199 safe and recommended based on a trade off of costs 0:11:13.200 --> 0:11:15.600 and benefits to those vaccines, and that is why we 0:11:15.640 --> 0:11:17.400 came up with an original vaccine schedule. 0:11:17.800 --> 0:11:20.000 It's a very frustrating situation. It's frustrating. I just also 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:22.679 want to say there's no new data, like, like we're 0:11:22.720 --> 0:11:24.840 data people. It's one thing. If it's like, oh no, 0:11:24.920 --> 0:11:27.360 we find we did this big study and now there's 0:11:27.440 --> 0:11:30.240 a we have to change things, that's at least then 0:11:30.280 --> 0:11:33.120 we can evaluate. There's nothing new here. There is no 0:11:33.240 --> 0:11:37.320 sign of danger neuro developmentally from the current vaccine schedule. 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:40.880 There's no evidence that combining measles, mumps, and REBLA versus 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:44.240 separating it makes any difference in childhood outcomes. There's it's 0:11:44.720 --> 0:11:49.600 it's it's nothing. It's just the whims of the administration 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:50.480 as far as I can tell. 0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:54.679 Yeah, and it'll hurt kids, which is not it'll hurt 0:11:54.760 --> 0:11:57.080 kids kids, which is all right, I. 0:11:57.080 --> 0:12:01.200 Gotta I gotta calm down. So the the thing that's 0:12:01.240 --> 0:12:04.199 going to calm me down is Emily. You can tell 0:12:04.240 --> 0:12:12.839 me why the Tour de France is gonna outlaw padded brass. 0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:16.600 It's much better than that, So okay. The Tour de 0:12:16.600 --> 0:12:19.960 France is a bicycle race, and there is a female 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:22.520 Tour de France. It's called the Tour de France femsa 0:12:22.600 --> 0:12:23.120 vex Wick. 0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:24.600 It's this. 0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:28.680 Wick is a SoC company, I believe, and they sponsor 0:12:28.760 --> 0:12:30.400 this race. So you have to say the whole. 0:12:30.320 --> 0:12:32.959 Name big big sock, big sock. 0:12:33.080 --> 0:12:35.240 Big sock. They're in bed with big sock. But an 0:12:35.280 --> 0:12:38.520 issue that they're having is that apparently, when you are 0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:41.960 biking in a time trial, it's very important to be aerodynamic, 0:12:42.640 --> 0:12:45.880 and one of the things that enhances your aerodynamicness is 0:12:45.920 --> 0:12:49.480 to have like more bulk on your front. I have 0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:51.319 no idea why this would be. I don't know enough 0:12:51.360 --> 0:12:55.400 about cycling, but you like it's like otherwise, Actually it's 0:12:55.440 --> 0:12:57.520 like otherwise, it's more like a sale. I think it's 0:12:57.559 --> 0:13:01.199 a bit like for listeners of our very first episode, 0:13:01.200 --> 0:13:03.160 it's a bit like the penis the penis thing and 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:05.720 the ski jumpers I think, but like the opposite. 0:13:05.920 --> 0:13:08.760 You need a padded penis to fly further in a. 0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:13.000 Ski jump anyway, So people there's an intentive to like 0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:16.440 bulk yourself up. And apparently there's an accusation that some 0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:19.320 of the riders in the Twitter Fronts fems were wearing 0:13:19.320 --> 0:13:22.760 bras that were too large, possibly padded. I don't think stuffed, 0:13:22.800 --> 0:13:24.920 but like you know, instead of wearing a B cup, 0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:26.560 you put like on a D cup raw and like 0:13:26.600 --> 0:13:29.359 the padding is in there to make themselves more aerodynamic. 0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:31.400 So then people were saying, Okay, we're going to have 0:13:31.400 --> 0:13:34.040 somebody check like when before you get on, someone's going 0:13:34.120 --> 0:13:36.080 to like check out make sure your BRA's not too big. 0:13:36.200 --> 0:13:38.440 But then other people felt like, hey, we need an 0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:41.880 elderly Frenchman checking the bras of all the female cyclists. 0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:44.640 That seems a little awkward. So we've sort of it 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:46.320 kind of died died there. 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:51.480 Yeah, it probably should die there, so light but it is. 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:54.360 It's But I like this because it's an example of 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:58.200 like what of the sort of almost like wellness, like 0:13:58.240 --> 0:14:00.400 what's too far right? If you're at the point where 0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:02.040 you're like, I'm going to put a really big brod 0:14:02.120 --> 0:14:05.319 to go faster, like it's you're taking it too far. 0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:08.520 I hot take. I think actually a lot of this stuff, 0:14:08.559 --> 0:14:11.280 including some of the band supplements and things like that, 0:14:11.720 --> 0:14:15.520 actually don't make any difference, and it's just sort of 0:14:16.040 --> 0:14:16.920 you know, they're like. 0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:18.160 All on your head anyway. 0:14:18.160 --> 0:14:20.520 Maybe it's like a cautionarily banning things. 0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:21.960 Yeah, or you put on your big bron then you 0:14:22.000 --> 0:14:23.920 feel like, ah, now I've got my big broad, like 0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:26.320 I'm going to go super fast and my cool T 0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:26.920 T bike. 0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:29.520 Well, I sure I'm going to put on a big 0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:33.200 broad next time I go totally big boob energy. All right, 0:14:33.480 --> 0:14:36.320 that's it for the health news of the week. What's 0:14:36.400 --> 0:14:42.400 the deal with fluoride? Oh boy, Emily, this is a 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:45.880 controversial topic. We're gonna make some. 0:14:45.800 --> 0:14:50.120 People mad for for some for a you know, for 0:14:50.200 --> 0:14:55.280 a thing that is about municipal water supplies. I can't 0:14:55.360 --> 0:14:59.400 believe how much people care, you know, Like did you 0:14:59.480 --> 0:15:01.240 have on your and go card? People would be like, 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:04.440 I really want to discuss the details of our municipal 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:05.040 water supply. 0:15:05.280 --> 0:15:08.200 I mean I think they care because of the classic like, 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:10.760 but what about the children? Right, Like if you can 0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:14.760 attach any whatever your issue is, like attach it to 0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:18.320 the children like it's going to do better. This is 0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:23.400 not new concerns about fluoride. And I've got to play 0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:27.440 you just brilliant clip from Doctor Strangelove. 0:15:28.320 --> 0:15:33.120 Water. That's what I'm getting at water and as human beings, 0:15:33.880 --> 0:15:37.920 you and I need fresh, pure water to replenish our 0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:44.120 precious bodily fluids. Mandrake. Have you never wondered why I 0:15:44.240 --> 0:15:47.840 drink only to stilled water or rain water and only 0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:51.320 pure grain alcohol. Have you ever heard of a thing 0:15:51.360 --> 0:15:57.040 called floridation? Floridation of water? H Yes, I have heard 0:15:57.080 --> 0:16:00.160 of that, Jack, Yes, yes, Whether you know what it is, 0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:07.280 do you realize that floridation is the most monstrously conceived 0:16:07.760 --> 0:16:10.400 and dangerous communist plot we have ever had to face. 0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:17.160 That was Peter Sellers and Sterling Hayden playing General Jack 0:16:17.240 --> 0:16:21.400 d Ripper from Doctor Strangelove. Do yourself a favor if 0:16:21.440 --> 0:16:23.880 you haven't seen it, and see it. It is absolutely 0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:28.280 hilarious and dark and wonderful. Jackie Ripper essentially starts a 0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:31.480 nuclear war because he's paranoid about fluoridation of the water supply. 0:16:31.560 --> 0:16:33.600 So this has been going on for a long time. 0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:37.880 This is not a new theory or conspiracy theory. And 0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:41.600 you know, we need to sort of dig in I 0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:45.360 think broadly speaking to why it's there in the first place, 0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:47.520 and then maybe the concerns about it. 0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:50.480 Yeah, I think it's worth like, let's just start with 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:54.360 you know, your municipal water supply. It is not just 0:16:54.600 --> 0:16:57.320 beautiful alpine spring water like you will be drinking on 0:16:57.360 --> 0:17:01.440 your vacation. There are many many things that we add 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:02.880 to water. 0:17:03.320 --> 0:17:06.520 Yeah, I am really acutely aware of this because I'm 0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:12.560 a nephrologist, and nephrologists do dialysis where you run blood 0:17:12.560 --> 0:17:15.760 through a machine and it cleans the blood, and the 0:17:15.800 --> 0:17:18.159 water that runs on the outside of the dialysis membrane 0:17:18.200 --> 0:17:20.600 generally comes from municipal water supplies, and we have to 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:23.720 be very concerned because anything in that water supply can 0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:26.240 get through the dialysis membrane into the blood. So we 0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:28.679 get very panicked about stuff, and we do a lot 0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:31.119 of things to treat the water supply before we use 0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:33.760 it on a dialysis patient. So a brief list of 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:39.040 things that are in your water aside from chluoride, chlorine, monochloramine, 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:41.800 chlorine dioxide, those are all to kill bacteria. People don't 0:17:41.800 --> 0:17:46.240 complain about chlorination of water very often orthophosphates and polyphosphates 0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:49.960 to prevent pipe corrosion, Sodium hydroxide and acidic water, sulfuric 0:17:50.000 --> 0:17:52.000 acid and alkaline water. You got to get the pH right. 0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:55.040 Aluminum sulfate as a flocculant to get all the little 0:17:55.080 --> 0:17:58.520 pieces of dirt and things to precipitate out, Potassium permagonate 0:17:58.800 --> 0:18:02.080 to precipitate out iron oxides so you don't get rust 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:06.119 colored water. So there is a lot and nobody is 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:10.160 going to town halls demanding that we no longer chlorinate 0:18:10.200 --> 0:18:14.080 the water supply because if we stopped doing that, everyone 0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:16.119 would get back toial infections and die. 0:18:16.320 --> 0:18:20.480 Yeah. I think what does differentiate fluoride from these other 0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:25.879 things is that fluoride is not there to clean the 0:18:25.960 --> 0:18:29.600 water and to make it so you don't get poop 0:18:29.680 --> 0:18:33.080 diseases from it. It is added because we think it 0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:36.119 is good for people's teeth. Basically, can't get more into that, 0:18:36.160 --> 0:18:37.920 but it's added as a kind of this is something 0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:41.359 to benefit you, as opposed to without this, your water 0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:42.359 will make you ill. 0:18:42.640 --> 0:18:44.120 Yes, that's a great distinction. 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:47.720 It seems more optional. No one is interested in fighting 0:18:47.760 --> 0:18:50.760 about chlorine because if you took that out we'd all 0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:51.320 be really sick. 0:18:51.640 --> 0:18:55.320 It seems more optional. And also there's the psychological like 0:18:55.600 --> 0:18:59.359 something is being done to me even though you're ingesting 0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:02.479 the chlorine from the water and the potassium promagnate from 0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:04.960 the water. Like the intention isn't there, I think, is 0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:07.080 what you're saying. And there's something about the intentionality of 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:09.560 fluoride that gets people's hackles up more. 0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:13.119 Yeah, that's my feeling. Although it's hard to get inside 0:19:13.119 --> 0:19:15.439 people's it's hard to get inside people's head. And you know, 0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:21.240 could we generate a bunch of panic about something called orthophosphate? 0:19:21.280 --> 0:19:24.480 Like probably that doesn't sound good, so maybe that would 0:19:24.480 --> 0:19:26.360 be our next episode. 0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:28.640 What about their children being supposed to work? 0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:32.200 About the children and the pipe corrosion or whatever. Okay, 0:19:32.280 --> 0:19:35.879 so before we get into the details of this, let's 0:19:35.880 --> 0:19:42.359 talk about why we how we know that fluoride is 0:19:42.400 --> 0:19:44.840 good and where this initially came from. 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:49.440 It's such an interesting story. So the history of fluoride 0:19:49.880 --> 0:19:52.840 in medicine goes back to nineteen oh one and doctor 0:19:52.880 --> 0:19:57.439 Frederick McKay who was looking at a condition which was 0:19:57.960 --> 0:20:02.160 called Colorado brown stain from Colorado Springs, Colorado. These were 0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:05.199 people that had brown stains on their teeth, but McKay 0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:07.720 made the insight that they actually had a really low 0:20:07.800 --> 0:20:09.840 rate of cavities, Like the teeth kind of were ugly 0:20:09.880 --> 0:20:11.399 and had these brown stains on it, but they just 0:20:11.440 --> 0:20:14.919 didn't get cavities. It was not entirely clear what was 0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:19.040 protecting them until nineteen thirty one when HV. Churchill out 0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:23.119 at Alcoa used spectrographic analysis to determine what was in 0:20:23.160 --> 0:20:27.440 the water at Colorado Springs and discovered it was fluoride, 0:20:27.480 --> 0:20:31.640 and the levels of naturally accurring fluoride there were very, 0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:35.040 very high, about thirteen point two parts per million in 0:20:35.119 --> 0:20:39.399 the brown stain affected areas. We're going to talk a 0:20:39.400 --> 0:20:41.480 lot about like the dosage of floride in the water, 0:20:41.560 --> 0:20:43.840 so it might be worth just like let's just set 0:20:44.320 --> 0:20:47.480 the stage now and I'll try to give round numbers, 0:20:47.520 --> 0:20:51.480 but like ten parts per million the sort of Colorado 0:20:51.480 --> 0:20:57.320 brown stain is a lot. The target in floridated water 0:20:57.640 --> 0:21:00.840 is zero point seven parts per million, like a tenth 0:21:00.840 --> 0:21:03.159 of that. And one of the key insights is that 0:21:03.200 --> 0:21:06.720 floride will protect teeth without causing stains at low doses, 0:21:06.840 --> 0:21:09.359 and then it can sort of cause white stains fluorosis 0:21:09.400 --> 0:21:11.480 at about three to four parts per million and then 0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:15.200 like really excessive fluoride can cause these brown stains once 0:21:15.240 --> 0:21:17.720 you get up to like ten parts per million or so. Okay, 0:21:18.080 --> 0:21:21.560 So in nineteen forty one forty two, that's when they 0:21:21.600 --> 0:21:23.720 sort of did the dose finding study to figure out 0:21:23.720 --> 0:21:26.680 that low doses of fluoride would be protective of teeth. 0:21:26.720 --> 0:21:29.800 And then nineteen forty five the first community water fluoridation 0:21:29.920 --> 0:21:32.600 happened in Grand Rapids, Michigan. At lest I. 0:21:32.600 --> 0:21:34.520 Don't just want to pause, I want to pause you 0:21:34.600 --> 0:21:38.040 on the because I think one one thing that's worth saying, well, 0:21:38.080 --> 0:21:39.920 how did you know? How do they know about the 0:21:40.040 --> 0:21:43.320 dosing here? And the answer is that there is a 0:21:43.320 --> 0:21:46.440 fair amount of naturally occurring variation and how much fluoride 0:21:46.440 --> 0:21:49.880 there is in US water across space. There are parts 0:21:49.920 --> 0:21:52.360 of the world China, India where actually the fluoride levels 0:21:52.400 --> 0:21:55.160 and water are very high. Obviously Colorado Springs is very high. 0:21:55.160 --> 0:21:59.200 There's also variation in other places. So many people live 0:21:59.240 --> 0:22:01.919 in areas where they naturally occurring water fluoride in the 0:22:01.920 --> 0:22:05.640 water is higher. They use that to figure out basically 0:22:05.680 --> 0:22:08.240