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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Leftsett's podcast. My guest

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Speaker 1: today is Paul Jane Way of Seeing Paul in the

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Speaker 1: Broken Bulls. Paul, you have a new album. Tell me

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Speaker 1: about it.

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Speaker 2: Oh, well, we're really excited. Uh, it's it feels kind

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Speaker 2: of like for us, kind of a refresh or renew

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Speaker 2: kind of thing for us. We've this is our sixth record,

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Speaker 2: and uh we've recorded it at Fame studios and muscle shows,

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Speaker 2: which you know, we've always had a connection with to

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Speaker 2: that area. Some of the guys from the band are

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Speaker 2: from there. Uh, some of the guys in the band

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Speaker 2: lived there, so we've always kind of had a connection there.

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Speaker 2: And we're really excited. I mean, like I said, we

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Speaker 2: felt like it's, like I said, it's our sixth record,

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Speaker 2: so we kind of felt like one through five we

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Speaker 2: kind of whatever book we were trying to write or

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Speaker 2: try to prove through ourselves or whatever it was, that's

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Speaker 2: kind of over. And now it feels like kind of

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Speaker 2: a renewed, refreshed thing because that and that's why we

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Speaker 2: went with the self titled record, because it felt like

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Speaker 2: the renewal or refresher.

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Speaker 1: What's the songwriting process for the band.

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Speaker 2: It's it varies. We've done it many different ways. Uh,

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Speaker 2: you know, we've done it. When we first started, it

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Speaker 2: was sitting in a room and working out the songs

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Speaker 2: right and maybe something will happen. And we kind of

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Speaker 2: got away from that just with technology and you know,

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Speaker 2: it's just easier to do to do bedroom demos and

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Speaker 2: build it from there and you know, all different qualities.

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Speaker 2: But we thought with this record, we were like, all right,

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Speaker 2: let's get back in this. Let's let's get back in

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Speaker 2: a room and play. And so we did. We did that,

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Speaker 2: which was great. Then we also I was working on

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Speaker 2: another project with a guy named eg White who ended

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Speaker 2: up producing this record, and me and him in London

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Speaker 2: ended up writing a couple of songs that only a

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Speaker 2: couple of those ended up on the record as well.

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Speaker 1: So how do you no Egg White? How did you

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Speaker 1: end up working with him?

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Speaker 2: So I have I have a solo deal with Records

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Speaker 2: as part of the Columbia Sony team and uh. And

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Speaker 2: so the band was kind of in a lull of

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Speaker 2: you know, we just weren't doing much and so I

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Speaker 2: was like, okay, I'm going to be an open book

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Speaker 2: instead of instead of turning everything down, which was my tendency.

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Speaker 2: I was like, I'm going to be an open book.

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Speaker 2: I'll go write with people, I'll go try anything, and

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Speaker 2: if I you know, ultimately, if I don't like it,

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Speaker 2: I'm not going to use it, right and uh and

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Speaker 2: through that process we I met Egg and there was

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Speaker 2: just kind of instant chemistry and I we had similar

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Speaker 2: sensibilities and it just really it really clicked, and it

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Speaker 2: was it was you know, it's one of those I

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Speaker 2: didn't know if that was out there. You know, it's

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Speaker 2: like finding finding, finding a spouse or something.

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Speaker 1: Okay, lets let's back up for a second. You have

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Speaker 1: a solo deal with Records, which is its own company,

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Speaker 1: but now your albums are coming out on Ato. The

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Speaker 1: group albums, the.

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Speaker 2: Group albums are actually coming out. We were doing our

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Speaker 2: own label, but thirty Tigers is marketing industributing on so

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Speaker 2: it's a while.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I'm gonna walk through this. The first label is

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Speaker 1: single Lock. What is single Lock?

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Speaker 2: So Single Lock is a label out of Florence, Alabia.

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Speaker 2: Most of the muscle show the Shoals area and they

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Speaker 2: were friends of ours. They were starting this, you know,

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Speaker 2: starting this new label, and we weren't the first act

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Speaker 2: on it, but we were one of the first and

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Speaker 2: I think that one actually that label started ended up

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Speaker 2: being distributed through thirty Tigers as well, so we worked

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Speaker 2: we used thirty Tigers label services as well for that

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Speaker 2: first record.

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Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, let's get into a little business. First record,

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Speaker 1: Boy is released by Single Lock. Does the band own

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Speaker 1: it or does the label own it?

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Speaker 2: We own it? We actually, I guess I made that.

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Speaker 2: We had a ten year term on it and that

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Speaker 2: was released in twenty fourteen, so you can do the math.

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Speaker 2: We own it.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you make one record with single Lock, then you

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Speaker 1: start making with people can't see the air quotes, start

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Speaker 1: making albums with Records. What is records?

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Speaker 2: So Records initially was a spin off or it was

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Speaker 2: a part of Songs Publishing, which no longer exists, and

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Speaker 2: it was we had had such a good relationship with

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Speaker 2: them that when they proposed the label, we were like great,

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Speaker 2: you know, like we had a good relationship. So that

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Speaker 2: was at that time. The A and R was Ron

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Speaker 2: Perry and Barry Weiss and and so we just had,

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Speaker 2: you know, we thought that was that would be the

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Speaker 2: best situation for for us at that point. And so

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Speaker 2: then We did two records with them and.

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Speaker 1: Time Out time Out who distributed the records.

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Speaker 2: Record Sony Sony.

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Speaker 1: Okay, but you also had a publishing deal with this company.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, we did.

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Speaker 1: How did that come to be?

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean they ended up giving us the most money. Uh,

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Speaker 2: I mean, you know, like and and they had done

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Speaker 2: some really I mean, to be to be honest, they

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Speaker 2: had done some really good things, like they had. We'd

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Speaker 2: gotten some placements, and it was just a good relationship,

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean. Like it's one of those

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Speaker 2: things that's I think that's what our business in a

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Speaker 2: lot of ways is about, is just having good relationships

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Speaker 2: and people telling you what they're gonna do, and they

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Speaker 2: do it and you go from there.

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Speaker 1: Okay, in the deal with songs, do you still own

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Speaker 1: the songs?

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Speaker 2: I I think that is a split that one is.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that's a split on the ownership. Does it ultimately

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Speaker 1: we've verted to you?

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Speaker 2: I think it does. I think I think it does.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, you're in Alabama. Yeah, from the outside, it

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Speaker 1: looks like you're a little wet behind the years. No,

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Speaker 1: you're talking about Ron Perry and Barry Weiss. Those guys

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Speaker 1: have decades worth of experience.

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Speaker 2: That is true.

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Speaker 1: So you want to make a deal with those people.

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Speaker 1: You get a lawyer, you get a manager. What's the

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Speaker 1: first step on your end?

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Speaker 2: Oh, we have we had our we had we had

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Speaker 2: we had a manager, We had a lawyer. Look at

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Speaker 2: the date, you know, we had all of that stuff.

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Speaker 1: Okay, was it a music business lawyer?

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Speaker 2: Yes?

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Speaker 1: Yes, okay. So you make two records with records? Then

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Speaker 1: you shift to at O what's the thinking there.

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Speaker 2: Well, at that time we with records, it seemed I

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Speaker 2: don't you know, it seemed like what their goal for

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Speaker 2: us was was a different thing. You know. We are

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Speaker 2: kind of like, hey, it not that they not that

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Speaker 2: they not that they don't care about the music. It

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Speaker 2: was just that it was one of those things where

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Speaker 2: they were like, hey, I think they were kind of

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Speaker 2: thinking maybe pop hits or something of that nature, and

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Speaker 2: we're kind of like, that's not really us, you know

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Speaker 2: what I mean? Uh, you know what I mean, Like, well,

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Speaker 2: that's not us, that's just not us. That's not no

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Speaker 2: one's picking us to be on the cover of Vogue, Right.

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Speaker 2: So we came to a mutual agreement where they're like, hey, great,

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Speaker 2: we'll let you we'll let y'all, let y'all out, we

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Speaker 2: have more time with them, They said, you know, but

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Speaker 2: you know, Paul's solo thing can stay here, and then

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Speaker 2: y'all are free to do whatever you want. And at

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Speaker 2: the time we we were with Red Light Management and

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Speaker 2: it seemed like a good fit with ATO, and we

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Speaker 2: had two records that were I would say, left of

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Speaker 2: center is the best way I could say it, and

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Speaker 2: knew knew that, and we thought.

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Speaker 1: Oh wait, wait, slow down, forget other people's perception. That's

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Speaker 1: where left of center would describe it. What were you

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Speaker 1: trying to do and how do you feel about what

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Speaker 1: you were trying to do and what you accomplished on

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Speaker 1: those records.

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Speaker 2: I think when we first started, everyone was talking about

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Speaker 2: the retro soul stuff, and we felt as a band

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Speaker 2: it was it was proven it to ourselves. We felt

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Speaker 2: as a band we were more than that. We felt

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Speaker 2: like we could to ourselves prove that we can go

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Speaker 2: a little bit more musically somewhere else and do do

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Speaker 2: do all sorts of things which this band is capable

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Speaker 2: of doing. And it wasn't really about I mean, you

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Speaker 2: don't I hate saying this like you obviously want audiences

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Speaker 2: to like your music, but at the same time, like

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Speaker 2: if I got it into that, into this for that,

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Speaker 2: like that's not that's not why I do it, But

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Speaker 2: it was kind of proven to ourselves that, like we're

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Speaker 2: also fans of Radiohead and Aphex Len and all sorts

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Speaker 2: of all sorts of stuff, and so those influences kind

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Speaker 2: of infiltrated the music, and I think we were trying

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Speaker 2: to prove to ourselves like, no, hey, we're a little

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Speaker 2: bit more than just like a novelty retro soul act.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you made those records. You made two after the

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Speaker 1: records were done, did you feel that you accomplish what

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Speaker 1: you wanted? And two what was the audience reaction and

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Speaker 1: how did that affect you?

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Speaker 2: Yes, I felt like we accomplished what we wanted. That

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Speaker 2: is the one satisfying thing that is I feel so

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Speaker 2: fortunate that we got away with that personally, like I do,

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Speaker 2: because like to be still having a career and touring

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Speaker 2: and going through that is a There's not a lot

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Speaker 2: of bands that can say that. So I feel like

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Speaker 2: we did. We accomplished what we wanted, which hints why

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Speaker 2: we kind of felt like this next record is is

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Speaker 2: kind of a refresher, wenewed thing with the audience. Uh,

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Speaker 2: it was challenging for the audience. I think there's some

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Speaker 2: people that went with us and there's some people that didn't.

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Speaker 2: You know, I think, you know, when you're known for

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Speaker 2: one thing like we have a tiny desk or the

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Speaker 2: Letterman performance or all of those things, that's what people expect,

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Speaker 2: and then when they don't get that, it challenges them.

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Speaker 2: And it was definitely challenging music. Its challenging for us.

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Speaker 2: We were like, who this is out there? Uh, but

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Speaker 2: we felt like it felt right. It felt right to us,

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Speaker 2: and we felt like but the audience we released. So

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Speaker 2: the last record were released was Angels and Science Fiction

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Speaker 2: and it's very mellow. I don't think there's hardly any

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Speaker 2: horns on it. Very mellow record. And we try to

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Speaker 2: tour differently, like maybe do more seated listening room stuff,

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Speaker 2: and it's pretty obviously our audience or the audience didn't

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Speaker 2: have an appetite for it. And while I think that's

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Speaker 2: a beautiful record and I'm very proud of it, it just

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Speaker 2: it didn't seem like they were that into it, which

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Speaker 2: is fine, I mean, you know what I mean, that's

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Speaker 2: just part of being that's part of having a career.

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Speaker 1: In this Okay, you have these two records where you

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Speaker 1: expand your horizons. They are not as commercially successful on

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Speaker 1: the road or on streams as the other ones. Do

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Speaker 1: you feel hampered by that or do you feel fuck man,

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Speaker 1: I want to have a career. Let's go back to

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Speaker 1: the soul thing. I don't.

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Speaker 2: I don't. I know this is crazy. I don't. I

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Speaker 2: don't feel that way. I think this is I'm proud

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Speaker 2: of those records, you know, I really am. I don't.

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Speaker 2: If I was gonna do I was in accounting school.

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Speaker 2: So if I want to do that and that's what

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Speaker 2: I was about, then the if the only thing to

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Speaker 2: me is the outcome of money with this, then well

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Speaker 2: there's not a lot of difference. So that's not it

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Speaker 2: is it. Don't get me wrong. It's important, you know,

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Speaker 2: it's a secondary outcome to what we do. But but

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Speaker 2: I don't. I don't look at it like that. I'm

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Speaker 2: very proud of those. I don't look at those and go,

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Speaker 2: oh God, like man, we we gotta get back to

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Speaker 2: the thing, you know what I mean, Like, we gotta

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Speaker 2: we gotta start getting those horns back in. It's just

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Speaker 2: I think I've said this, and I've said this to

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Speaker 2: our management, like this next record it it does it

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Speaker 2: coincide with maybe what people maybe want from us a

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Speaker 2: little bit more. Yeah, but that's not why we're there.

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Speaker 2: We're there because like going through that process with the

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Speaker 2: solo thing and writing and go and I really got

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Speaker 2: obsessed with the idea of great songwriting, which is not

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Speaker 2: saying that I wasn't, but it just felt like it

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Speaker 2: got leveled up a bit, and so that I was

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Speaker 2: chasing that dragon at that point, like writing just right,

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Speaker 2: not from a modern sense, I don't, not from a

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Speaker 2: modern pop sense, but from like a classic songwriting perspective,

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Speaker 2: like someone like Jimmy Webb or something, you know what

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Speaker 2: I mean, Like trying to go go that route. That's

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Speaker 2: what fascinating. And it just kind of coincides with with

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Speaker 2: where we're at.

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Speaker 1: Okay, talking a little bit more business. You make two

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Speaker 1: records with Ato, you're with Red Light, now you're with

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Speaker 1: Q Prime and with thirty Tigers. What accounted for those changes?

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Speaker 2: I oh, boy, uh, I think I think for us,

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Speaker 2: it just felt it it felt like ownership of your

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Speaker 2: stuff was really important in this day and age owning

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Speaker 2: your things right, It felt like you know, with with

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Speaker 2: With at first, you know, we weren't when we it

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Speaker 2: was AMFM, and then they got absorbed into Q Prime.

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Speaker 2: We when we made that change, it felt like they

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Speaker 2: it just felt like they had a little bit more

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Speaker 2: grasp of the modern modern times maybe and and And

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Speaker 2: I think understood this band. I think that's what we've

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Speaker 2: come to realize over time, is like thirty Tigers was

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Speaker 2: great about understanding this band, not that others didn't, but

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Speaker 2: it was just they had the best grasp. And then

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Speaker 2: with management, it was kind of the same thing, like

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Speaker 2: what is this band because we're not you know, we're

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Speaker 2: not country like, we've done all sorts of genres, We've

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Speaker 2: done all sorts of things, and it just, you know,

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Speaker 2: it felt like the right fit. I mean, that's that's

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Speaker 2: I guess the best I could say.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's slow it down a little bit. Does Ato

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Speaker 1: own those two records?

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Speaker 2: Yes, we will split those till in perpetuity.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So Saint Paul and the Broken Bones own half

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Speaker 1: of those or some percentage, yeah, half, Okay, So let's

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Speaker 1: talk about management. You're in one canoe, I mean, before

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Speaker 1: you jump into the other canoe. There must be a

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Speaker 1: process of wait a second, you know we're going in

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Speaker 1: the wrong direction, or we need better paddles or something.

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Speaker 1: What was going through your brain?

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Speaker 2: Uh, well, there was a lot of things going through

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Speaker 2: my brain. Management's really tough because you you kind of

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Speaker 2: speed date and then you have to get married, you know,

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Speaker 2: and that's really hard, and you don't really know what

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Speaker 2: you're getting until I would say at least a year

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Speaker 2: in you know what I'm saying. Even then, it's still difficult.

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Speaker 2: And we just felt like, you know, everybody promise you,

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Speaker 2: promises you the world, right, and we are a mid

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Speaker 2: sized touring act, so we do. We are going to

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Speaker 2: bring whoever we go to some money, and for me

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Speaker 2: it's a lot of money. For them it might not

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Speaker 2: be that much money, but for me it's a lot

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Speaker 2: of money. And so it you obviously have to give

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Speaker 2: people a chance and go through. But when there starts

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Speaker 2: to be certain signs of like, hey, this is not

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Speaker 2: the right fit. I talked to somebody on our team

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Speaker 2: and they were like, hey, bad management can or or

294
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Speaker 2: not the right fit can can burn you. It can

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Speaker 2: get you in real trouble. And so we we kind

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Speaker 2: of had to make a swift, swift decision and uh

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Speaker 2: and more good shape.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so you have a new management company. Every management

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Speaker 1: company is different. It's not like, you know, even working

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Speaker 1: for a big corporation. So what is the difference on

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Speaker 1: a more granular level working with am FM, which is

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Speaker 1: now part of Q Prime.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think I think they have a better grasp

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Speaker 2: of the times of what we're in, like I they

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Speaker 2: I think digital, the digital world. Like something for us

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Speaker 2: that we are not good at is social media. I

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Speaker 2: hate it with a pure and holy passion. We're not

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Speaker 2: good with YouTube stuff. But that's the world we're in now.

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Speaker 2: For example, like when we first started arted with them,

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Speaker 2: we had I think, I don't even think we had

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Speaker 2: a TikTok account right, so, which I was fine with,

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Speaker 2: I don't care. But they were like, hey, let's let's

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Speaker 2: do this. They had somebody I think, and this is

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Speaker 2: a great example. In January we had about four thousand followers.

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Speaker 2: Today we have ninety five thousand, and something went viral.

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Speaker 2: They were able to. It's really just capitalizing on when

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Speaker 2: something happens, when the luck comes, you know, being ready

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Speaker 2: when the luck comes. And I think the digital side

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Speaker 2: they had a really good understanding and we just kind

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Speaker 2: of knew we felt like dinosaurs in a lot of ways,

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Speaker 2: where we're like, you know, I still believe putting on

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Speaker 2: great shows leads to a career, but there was just

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Speaker 2: the digital side that we were really struggling with. And

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Speaker 2: it's not it was it's also just you know, personality

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Speaker 2: fits and teams. I think with really large management companies

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Speaker 2: there is an internal dynamic that they're trying. I mean,

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Speaker 2: they have a boss and so they're having to navigate

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Speaker 2: their their businesses and stuff. It's like and he needs

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Speaker 2: someone who's just like, what is there's no one more

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Speaker 2: focused on my career and our career than me. They're

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Speaker 2: just not. But you need someone who can go at

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Speaker 2: least get and get a little bit in the weeds

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Speaker 2: with you. And you know there's internal but like with

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Speaker 2: going to a MFM, like Air Frank owned the company,

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like he's the boss and

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Speaker 2: there's no one else over him that they have to

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Speaker 2: you know, navigate, and you know that's just how it works.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So they say let's get deeper into social internet digital,

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Speaker 1: many people up until the very recently said sounds good.

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Speaker 1: They hire somebody or they hire a company. You and

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Speaker 1: the members of your band, how involved are you personally?

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Speaker 1: And what is posted on TikTok.

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Speaker 2: I get a message that says do you approve? And

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Speaker 2: I go yep, and that's it.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I mean I haven't checked out all your TikTok clips.

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Speaker 1: What are those clips? Like?

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Speaker 2: Well, what we found is there was this is no joke.

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Speaker 2: We had a clip we did a cruise for, like

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Speaker 2: a New Orleans cruise, you know, and a small little

350
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Speaker 2: clip of that went viral on TikTok and I was

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Speaker 2: just like, okay, what you know what I mean so bizarre.

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Speaker 2: But what we have found in this particular song, what

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Speaker 2: we have found is that every time we post that

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Speaker 2: particular part of that song, it it gets, you know,

355
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Speaker 2: over one hundred to two hundred thousand views, and one

356
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Speaker 2: of them got over I'm gonna think two million or something,

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Speaker 2: you know, something nuts. And so what we do and

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Speaker 2: what they have found is that it's it's performing, which

359
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Speaker 2: I am so grateful for because I'll take a clip

360
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Speaker 2: of me performing any day of the week, right Like,

361
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Speaker 2: that's that's easy. It's not sitting on a pie or

362
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Speaker 2: doing some sort of trendy you know thing or whatever,

363
00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:04,760
Speaker 2: and so that's what they found is just like clips

364
00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:07,639
Speaker 2: are performing and and I'm sure you know with the

365
00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,800
Speaker 2: record release there'll be some more involvement, but but for us,

366
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Speaker 2: it's just about getting live footage because that is apparently

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Speaker 2: what people want from us.

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Speaker 1: Okay, i'd only seen you saw the Letterman performance. We'll

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Speaker 1: get back to that, hopefully saw the screen. I've seen you.

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Speaker 1: I am now talking to you. You are completely different

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Speaker 1: from my preconception. Okay, okay, and I only mean that

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Speaker 1: in a good way. Okay, You're humble, you're intelligent, you

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Speaker 1: have a sense of humor. So if you yourself, Paul Janeway,

374
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Speaker 1: were posting about you and your band or what you

375
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Speaker 1: did or anything, man, that would be magic on TikTok.

376
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Speaker 1: What's wrong with doing something like that?

377
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Speaker 2: You know what managements are gonna hear this, and now

378
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Speaker 2: they're gonna be like, hey, hey said it, I'm my back.

379
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Speaker 2: Oh god, uh, I know, I get it. I understand

380
00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:12,400
Speaker 2: what you're saying. I just it is it's just here's

381
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Speaker 2: the problem, Like, so you have to promote yourself and

382
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Speaker 2: I'm just not It's it's it's a hard personality it's

383
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Speaker 2: just a personality tick. But yes, you are, I have

384
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Speaker 2: trust me. You ain't the first one to say it,

385
00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:26,960
Speaker 2: which I appreciate, but uh, it's it's just I don't know, man,

386
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Speaker 2: I don't know.

387
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Speaker 1: Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait. There's two elements here.

388
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Speaker 1: There's one playing at all and another promoting yourself. I

389
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Speaker 1: don't want to go anywhere and say I'm great, listen

390
00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:44,360
Speaker 1: to me do my stuff. I completely understand that, okay,

391
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Speaker 1: but as an artist. An artist is not solely what's

392
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Speaker 1: in the recording and what's on stage. There's much more

393
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Speaker 1: to that. So to illuminate that does not mean you're

394
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Speaker 1: selling out. You're hyping yourself.

395
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, you're right. I mean, look, the whole band

396
00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:08,359
Speaker 2: has a really great dynamic, and there it's you know,

397
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:10,080
Speaker 2: we've been doing this for twelve years and we don't

398
00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:12,560
Speaker 2: hate each other, so there has to be an element

399
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:16,720
Speaker 2: of I hear you, I hear you, and I ain't

400
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,639
Speaker 2: saying you're wrong. It's just it's just a heart. For

401
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:21,439
Speaker 2: some reason, I just have a hard time with it,

402
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:23,480
Speaker 2: and I think it probably I'll be honest with you,

403
00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:25,199
Speaker 2: I'll tell you what it probably is a self esteem.

404
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:27,840
Speaker 2: You know what I mean because I think, who in

405
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Speaker 2: the hell wants to hear from me and cares what

406
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,080
Speaker 2: I think or drink or eat or you know what

407
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:34,640
Speaker 2: I'm saying. But I think that's what it.

408
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Speaker 1: Is, exactly what you're seeing. But I'll say two things. One,

409
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Speaker 1: it's like I always say, you never know what's going

410
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:45,359
Speaker 1: to happen until you step out the front door. There

411
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Speaker 1: are a lot of things I didn't want to do,

412
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Speaker 1: and I went and led to all kinds of crazy shit.

413
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Speaker 1: There's a lot of things I went out and nothing happened.

414
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Speaker 1: But I'm just talking walking out the front door. Okay.

415
00:22:55,160 --> 00:23:00,280
Speaker 1: The same thing which is interesting, which is obviously you

416
00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:04,800
Speaker 1: have no problem getting up on stage and performing. In addition,

417
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:10,439
Speaker 1: you are a dynamic performer. Now they're like Howard Stern

418
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,639
Speaker 1: famously in his first marriage he would talk on the radio,

419
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:17,240
Speaker 1: come on, sit in his basement, not talk to anybody. Okay,

420
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:21,840
Speaker 1: So do you get all your eas out on stage

421
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:24,720
Speaker 1: and the rest of the time you're pretty isolated and

422
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,720
Speaker 1: low key or you just don't want to display the

423
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Speaker 1: rest of your personality to the masses.

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Speaker 2: I think that there is a privacy aspect to it.

425
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Speaker 2: I think there's also because I think when you you

426
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Speaker 2: live by the sword and you die by the sword.

427
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:43,360
Speaker 2: When it comes to social media, and I think when

428
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Speaker 2: you allow that in, you are allowing you know, there

429
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Speaker 2: is It's like I believe in criticism, right, music criticism

430
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:52,960
Speaker 2: and things like that, because we're sitting here trying. You know,

431
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,000
Speaker 2: you pay somebody to promote you toot your horn. Well,

432
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:57,199
Speaker 2: there has to be a counter to that, just for

433
00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:59,879
Speaker 2: someone to wave through. And I think with social media's

434
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,280
Speaker 2: if you're gonna put your life out there, you have

435
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:05,159
Speaker 2: to be open to the criticism that's gonna happen when you.

436
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 2: I mean we see that all the time with people

437
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 2: who have podcasts and they talk every day. Well, you're

438
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:11,639
Speaker 2: gonna say something, you know what I mean, Like, no

439
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:13,360
Speaker 2: one's perfect, we're all imperfect.

440
00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 1: Wait wait wait wait, you don't have to say anything,

441
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:21,320
Speaker 1: and they're gonna hate on you exactly. You know, I

442
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:24,000
Speaker 1: walked out the front door. It was a beautiful day,

443
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:27,919
Speaker 1: you piece of shit. Why didn't you stay home? Et cetera.

444
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 1: That goes with the territory. But it's not only social media.

445
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:36,080
Speaker 1: You play it all, you put your music out there. Yeah,

446
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 1: I know, I know they're gonna be people who hating

447
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,000
Speaker 1: on you just for hating on you.

448
00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:43,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean I know that that part doesn't

449
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,120
Speaker 2: really bother me, you know what I mean, Like that part,

450
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 2: I don't care about that. I mean people, I mean,

451
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,359
Speaker 2: god knows, we've made records that I know. I was like,

452
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:52,639
Speaker 2: I knew, like, ain't nobody going like this? But I

453
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 2: don't care. But I think part of it, part of

454
00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,640
Speaker 2: I think part of it is you live us or diabosourd.

455
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,359
Speaker 2: I also think with social media, I just it's just

456
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,679
Speaker 2: not my personality. I am my. I don't drink, I

457
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 2: don't smoke, I don't have many you know, vices. So

458
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:13,679
Speaker 2: performing on stage and that moment of making music like

459
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:17,360
Speaker 2: that's that's my thing, Like that's where it's my outlet,

460
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:21,159
Speaker 2: and so it's where I get to be. I don't know,

461
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 2: it's it's just where I get to be anything I

462
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,359
Speaker 2: want to be. And I love performing. I love being

463
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:29,119
Speaker 2: that vessel for people to feel something. You know, we

464
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,800
Speaker 2: just so desperately and need that. I think in generous

465
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 2: people Like that's why I tell everybody to talk about

466
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 2: AI and stuff like shows ain't going anywhere, They're not

467
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,880
Speaker 2: going anywhere because people are gonna still need that connection

468
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 2: and to and to be a tool or a vessel

469
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 2: for that for people to experience a comp whether it's

470
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 2: crying or laughing or or you know whatever. Like that's man,

471
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 2: that's that's that's a powerful drug. If I could figure

472
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 2: out how to bottle that up. I never leave home.

473
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 2: But after that, like I am a little bit more

474
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:03,399
Speaker 2: low key, you know what I mean? Like I like people,

475
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:05,639
Speaker 2: but I just you know, I don't go out and

476
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:07,200
Speaker 2: I got I got, you know, I got a four

477
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 2: year old little girl, I got my wife. Like staying

478
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,119
Speaker 2: at home and being with them is pretty awesome to me.

479
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 1: Okay, since you brought it up, you say you don't

480
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 1: drink and you don't smoke. Did you used to drink?

481
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:21,960
Speaker 1: And did you used to smoke?

482
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 2: Never? Have never. I grew up pretty religious.

483
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 1: So your parents didn't drink or smoke either.

484
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:30,879
Speaker 2: I've never seen my mom or dad drink or smoke.

485
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 1: So you're in the music world where a lot of

486
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:41,680
Speaker 1: people drink and smoke. Did people pressure you to drink

487
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 1: and smoke? Are you comfortable when other people are drinking smokers?

488
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:46,360
Speaker 1: And a non issue?

489
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 2: It's a non issue for me now. Early on, I

490
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 2: never forget we did something in Nashville, and there was

491
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 2: a old veteran guitar player who who told me, I said,

492
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 2: you know, offer me something, you know, beer or something.

493
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 2: I said, oh, no, thank you, I'm good. He said,

494
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,199
Speaker 2: you don't you know this, asked me and said you

495
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 2: don't drink. And I said, no, I don't, I don't.

496
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:08,880
Speaker 2: He said, yeah, we'll see about that in a year.

497
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,160
Speaker 2: And I was just like, all right, man, I haven't

498
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:15,879
Speaker 2: have it so far, but uh it No. The guys

499
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 2: loved it. The guys in the band loved it because

500
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 2: when we were in the van, they knew they could

501
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:22,920
Speaker 2: do whatever they wanted to do and there was gonna

502
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 2: be somebody that's gonna drive the van around, you know

503
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:27,200
Speaker 2: what I mean. They loved it. They were like, yeah,

504
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 2: I love this guy doesn't drink, you know, a drink

505
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 2: or do anything, and so uh yeah. So it it's

506
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 2: a non issue to me, when, of course, when I

507
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 2: was younger, it was a you know, it was a

508
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,919
Speaker 2: it was due to, you know, a religious thing. But

509
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,880
Speaker 2: now I don't, I don't. I mean, I don't care,

510
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:45,479
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, as long as long as

511
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 2: everything's consensual and you your own person, do do whatever

512
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:50,199
Speaker 2: you want. To do you know.

513
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 1: Okay, you say you grew up in a religious environment.

514
00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:00,640
Speaker 1: Did you have to break away from that to go

515
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 1: on this path or you just happen to be on

516
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 1: this path and you're still religious. Tell me about your

517
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:09,200
Speaker 1: thoughts over this run.

518
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 2: Well that's a loaded question, uh, you know, trying to

519
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:19,160
Speaker 2: get it all in for me. I grew up, yeah,

520
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:22,119
Speaker 2: growing up religious, you know, grew up where you you know,

521
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:24,119
Speaker 2: my church went through many things, but one of them

522
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 2: was speaking in tongues and slaying the demons and he

523
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 2: or healing and all that, all that stuff. You know,

524
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 2: it's a small town, right, And and so I did

525
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 2: grow out of love with that. You know. I think

526
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 2: as anything, your worldview broadens, you know, like how how

527
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 2: how people view certain things? You'd like? No, I don't.

528
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 2: I don't agree with that. Like the part I'm attracted

529
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 2: to is is the love and acceptance and service. Those

530
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,239
Speaker 2: are the things that really stand out about it. And

531
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 2: so I really fell out of love with it. And

532
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,959
Speaker 2: I started doing open mic nights in Birmingham, Alabama, and

533
00:28:58,040 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 2: all I really want to because I know how to

534
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 2: play guitar and sing, and and so I kind of

535
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 2: fell out of love with it, and I'd never listened

536
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 2: to till I was nineteen twenty. I'd never listened to

537
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 2: a Beatles album in full. I'd never listened to you know,

538
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:15,719
Speaker 2: led Zeppelin, and you know what I mean, because I

539
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 2: was just so sheltered from that, And so it was

540
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 2: it was when you started listening to all these records,

541
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 2: You're like, it was kind of like finding Jesus, because

542
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 2: you're like, man, it's just a lot of music to

543
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 2: listen to you And so I kind of got obsessed

544
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 2: and and then that obviously led me down this path.

545
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 2: And now I think at that point I had a

546
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 2: lot of venom towards it. And now I think I'm

547
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 2: in a place where I can find peace in it.

548
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 2: And there's aspects of it that I feel like I

549
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 2: should be applied to my life, like the service and

550
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 2: love those things. But I have a hard time stepping

551
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 2: in churches these days. It's it's it's it's a hard

552
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 2: thing for me to do.

553
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 1: Okay, you grew up. Was the external demonized or were

554
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 1: you just unaware?

555
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 2: Hum, that's a good question. Uh, it was definitely demonized

556
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 2: to a degree. It wasn't just everything wasn't awful, But

557
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 2: I remember It's funny, you know, having having a four

558
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 2: year old and Halloween, and I remember early on going

559
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 2: trick or treat, but then it turned into like, oh,

560
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 2: this is the Devil's holiday and all that jazz, you

561
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 2: know what I mean, when you're just like okay whatever

562
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 2: and uh. And so my experience with Halloween stuff like that,

563
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 2: I think it. I think it changed over time. I

564
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 2: think that's just how I think culturally. You know, small

565
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 2: town Alabama, you know, church being the epicenter like it,

566
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 2: just those things changed over time. And I think I

567
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,720
Speaker 2: think initially it was just like hey, just not exposed

568
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 2: the stuff. But I don't think that happens as much

569
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 2: now because we have the Internet, you know what I mean,

570
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 2: Like you are attached to a whole other world now.

571
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 2: Though it can't get very echo chamber, you still have

572
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 2: access to so many different things now than when you

573
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 2: know then when I was going up.

574
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 1: How about the radio. Were you listening to music radio

575
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 1: growing up?

576
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 3: Now?

577
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 2: No? The only thing my dad would ever listen to

578
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 2: was sports talk. And then there was a Christian radio

579
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 2: station that was about that was about.

580
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 1: It and Christian rock? Was that something you.

581
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 2: Were in now? That was part of it? It was

582
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 2: got old gospel too, you know. The only thing and

583
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 2: that probably makes a lot of sense. The only thing

584
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 2: that my mom would listen to that was, I guess

585
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 2: really considered secular was the stylistics. The old seventies grouped

586
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 2: the stylistics and Sam Cook and and all that stuff.

587
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 2: So in old school Marvin Gay, you know before before

588
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 2: what's going on? Or let's get it on Marvin Gay.

589
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 2: But uh, and so probably makes a lot of sense. Uh,

590
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 2: my mom, my cousin one time gave me a Nirvana

591
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 2: CD and my mom threw it away, and so I

592
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 2: never Yeah, that was it.

593
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 1: Okay, So you grew up exactly where.

594
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 2: Chelsea, Alabama, and.

595
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 1: For those of us from the north feeniest although I

596
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:19,719
Speaker 1: live in Los Angeles now, where exactly is that?

597
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 2: So Chelsea is about forty five minutes about where I

598
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 2: about live to an hour south of Birmingham when I

599
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 2: grew up. It's really an interesting place because when I

600
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 2: grew up there, it was about eight hundred people and

601
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 2: it is the when I got into high school, is

602
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 2: the fastest, one of the fastest growing counties in the

603
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 2: United States, and I think now about twenty thousand people

604
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 2: lived there. Really, Yes, it's really bizarre. It's what was

605
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 2: it blew up really quick. So when I was getting

606
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 2: out of high school and I left basically so it's

607
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 2: it's now. It is now. I lived in unincorporated the

608
00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 2: unincorporated land, but it's now a full I would argue, suburb,

609
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:05,720
Speaker 2: whereas when I grew up it was a pretty rural area.

610
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 1: And would your parents do for a living?

611
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 2: My dad works in paving in construction, and my mom

612
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 2: was a or a nurse for a gynecologist.

613
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 1: And do you have any siblings?

614
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 2: I do? I have two younger sisters. I have you know, yeah,

615
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 2: I got two younger sisters.

616
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 1: And you broke away from this background upbringing.

617
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 2: What happened with them, Well, you know what happens, I think,

618
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 2: unfortunately with a lot of families in this situation. My

619
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 2: parents got divorced when I was sixteen, and I think

620
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 2: when that happens, your worldview changes a lot. And I

621
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 2: think that was probably a pretty pivotal point for me

622
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 2: as well, because you know, your parents aren't your heroes,

623
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 2: and you know what I mean, Like, you go through

624
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 2: all this this whole process, especially in a small town,

625
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 2: small community, everybody knows about it, and it gets kind

626
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 2: of ugly and all that stuff. And I think once

627
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 2: that happened, it really changed all of us in a

628
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 2: lot of ways. And so everybody's I would argue a

629
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 2: little more worldly now, you know what I mean, just

630
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,920
Speaker 2: the best way. But my sister, you know, my sister,

631
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 2: one of my sisters is an engineer and the other

632
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 2: one is a social worker. So that's you know.

633
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:23,399
Speaker 1: So did you see the divorce coming and you said

634
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 1: it changed you in a lot of ways? What ways

635
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 1: were those?

636
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:30,359
Speaker 2: Definitely saw it. You know, I don't want to get

637
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 2: too deep, but it was it was a there was,

638
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 2: you know, an abusive atmosphere, was the nicest way I

639
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 2: can say it. And I just grew up that way

640
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 2: and so definitely saw it. Probably should have come a

641
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:51,919
Speaker 2: lot sooner than it did. And then, uh, I think

642
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:57,239
Speaker 2: for me, it it changed. It just changed. It changed.

643
00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:00,279
Speaker 2: It changes how you feel about the world. And you know,

644
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 2: you're you have these people that you that you're entrusted

645
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:06,720
Speaker 2: to and now they're you know, now they're getting divorced.

646
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 1: Okay, so you're in Chelsea. How does this big transition happen?

647
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 1: You graduate from high school? You would I mean, I

648
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 1: don't know, how does it happen.

649
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 2: Well, I didn't graduate from high school till a year later. I. Uh,

650
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 2: my mom was pretty adamant about me going to school,

651
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 2: and I was telling her, no, I don't want to

652
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:32,080
Speaker 2: go to school. And so we had, you know, you

653
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:34,839
Speaker 2: have one of those big blowoffs. And my dad at

654
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 2: the time was living in an apartment, uh, two bedroom apartment,

655
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 2: and uh, he was like, well, you can come live here,

656
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 2: but he was driving two hours every morning, uh to

657
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 2: or you know, to Aniston. So he's getting up at

658
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:50,440
Speaker 2: four thirty in the morning driving to work. So no

659
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:52,800
Speaker 2: one was taking making sure I was going to school.

660
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,400
Speaker 2: So I didn't go to school, and uh and uh.

661
00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:00,760
Speaker 2: And then eventually I realized, like, all right, I can't.

662
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:02,880
Speaker 2: I gotta get my high school diploma. So I went

663
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 2: to summer school, then went to it. I mean my

664
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:07,959
Speaker 2: whole I think most my senior year, I didn't even

665
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 2: I didn't even I don't think I cracked the cracked

666
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:14,439
Speaker 2: the doors of that school. And so I went to So, yeah,

667
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 2: I went to I went. It took me another year

668
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 2: and a half to get my high school diploma. So

669
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 2: I was supposed to graduate and I didn't. So it

670
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 2: took me a while, which looking back at it now

671
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:25,720
Speaker 2: is fairly embarrassing. I should have I should have stuck

672
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 2: with it, but you know, I was just a situation

673
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 2: where I didn't have any you know what, my dad's fault.

674
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:32,239
Speaker 2: He's working, right, I should I should have gotten up

675
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:36,359
Speaker 2: and gone, but I just didn't go. And and then

676
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 2: so then you know, I'm obviously lost, you know what

677
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:41,840
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't. I have no idea what I

678
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:43,720
Speaker 2: want to do with my life. I have no clue.

679
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 2: And I was living with my dad and my sister

680
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 2: moves in, so one of us had to sleep on

681
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 2: the couch, and it was it was I looked back

682
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,319
Speaker 2: at it. I laughed now, but it was not laughing then,

683
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:57,680
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. It was not laughing, but

684
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:00,400
Speaker 2: I look at it and I was it's And so

685
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 2: then you know, I was, I was having to figure

686
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 2: out my life, you know. And music, I mean, there's

687
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:07,799
Speaker 2: not there's not a ton of stuff that's come out

688
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 2: of burning him. And music didn't seem like I loved creating,

689
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:15,359
Speaker 2: but it doesn't seem like an option. And and and

690
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 2: I was I never forget. I was working at a

691
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,719
Speaker 2: tanning bed. I know, with this this skin right here,

692
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 2: it's a level. Look, you know what I mean. But

693
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 2: I was working at a tanning bed my Uh it

694
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 2: was because I didn't have a car, so I could

695
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 2: walk there, and uh they let me go. So finally

696
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:31,719
Speaker 2: I swallowed my pride. That did the thing. Because my

697
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 2: Papal worked in paving in construction. He was a mechanic.

698
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:36,239
Speaker 2: My dad worked in paving in construction. I was like,

699
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 2: that was the family lineage, right, working working on the

700
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 2: roads and things. And I thought I had to swallow

701
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 2: my pride and say, Dad, hey, can you help me

702
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 2: out and get me a job. And he put in

703
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 2: a good word and I started working for a mechanic

704
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:53,400
Speaker 2: shop as a gopher and I'd cut the grass and

705
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:58,280
Speaker 2: all that stuff. And so he and so in that time,

706
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 2: I'm still playing. I still loved and you know what

707
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 2: I mean, But it just I do an open mic

708
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 2: here there. I end up meeting this guy named Jesse Phillips,

709
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:09,719
Speaker 2: who is the bass player in this band. Uh to

710
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:12,920
Speaker 2: this day, me and him grew into a really great

711
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:16,279
Speaker 2: relationship and he still he was the best man at

712
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:18,319
Speaker 2: my wedding. Like we still I loved. I love him

713
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:23,640
Speaker 2: to death. And he had I had a little record

714
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:26,719
Speaker 2: collection and I had talking heads remain in light and

715
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:28,760
Speaker 2: he saw that and he's like, I think we're gonna

716
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 2: be friends, and and uh, and so I got let

717
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 2: go at the mechanic shop in two thousand and eight

718
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 2: when all the economy went down. And to be fair,

719
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 2: I wasn't great at that job, you know what I mean,

720
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 2: Like I mean I had to be there at six

721
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:44,280
Speaker 2: point thirty in the morning. I am not a morning person.

722
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 2: But it was just part of life, right, And when

723
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 2: the economy went down, and then so I was on

724
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 2: unemployment for like three or two or two and a

725
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:54,479
Speaker 2: half three years and didn't have much going I really

726
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:58,359
Speaker 2: didn't and uh, but still playing music with Jesse. And

727
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:02,760
Speaker 2: then met a girl and she is now my wife.

728
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:05,880
Speaker 2: Met her and I knew I had to do something.

729
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:08,800
Speaker 2: I was like, I gotta I gotta make something on myself.

730
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 2: So I went to community college. Still play music, but

731
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:15,920
Speaker 2: nothing really happening. Went to community college. Then decided, okay,

732
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,840
Speaker 2: you know, I was had a job at a sporting

733
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:23,840
Speaker 2: good store, going to community college. She stuck with me,

734
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:29,799
Speaker 2: and then finally I was going into a county school

735
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 2: at UAB here in Birmingham, and my and Jesse's like, hey, man,

736
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:38,439
Speaker 2: I'm about to move on to can we just kind

737
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:42,000
Speaker 2: of write this a little EP or something of our

738
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 2: musical friendship and we'll always be friends. That ended up

739
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 2: being Saint Paul and the Broken Bones.

740
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:50,319
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back. Yes, you were living in this

741
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:54,839
Speaker 1: religious environment. How much was music a part of that?

742
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:58,759
Speaker 1: And how much did you sing, play or whatever? My mom?

743
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:00,879
Speaker 2: I mean, I sang some I was four years old.

744
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:04,319
Speaker 2: I sang solos in church. My mom plays piano, she

745
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:08,960
Speaker 2: sings too. It's really really interesting that, you know. My

746
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:12,959
Speaker 2: mom's relationship with music was something I knew when something

747
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 2: bad had happened to her because I'd hear the piano

748
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 2: being played. It's a So that was always kind of

749
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:24,799
Speaker 2: my relationship with music, right, and so we played all

750
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 2: the time. Now I sang all the time, but I

751
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:28,280
Speaker 2: never thought. I never thought I was a lead singer.

752
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:31,880
Speaker 2: I had a pastor that was very adamant about me

753
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:34,920
Speaker 2: singing background. I think you probably saw how much I

754
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 2: loved it. And he's like, no, we gotta treat treat you,

755
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:41,439
Speaker 2: gotta treat this fellow humility. And uh so he would

756
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:43,319
Speaker 2: kind of he would have me sing background, and I never,

757
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:46,280
Speaker 2: So I never never thought I was much of a singer,

758
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:50,239
Speaker 2: you know, so I never really got that until I

759
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 2: went to open mics. But yeah, it was around. I

760
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 2: was around it a lot.

761
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 1: Okay, At what point, I mean when you talk about

762
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 1: owning remaining late, what starts this transition into secular music?

763
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:06,799
Speaker 1: How do you discover what goes on?

764
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 2: Well, I mean really, for me, what it was is

765
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 2: once you kind of get out of that world, right,

766
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:14,800
Speaker 2: you get out of that small kind of religious world,

767
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 2: it was just kind of an explosion of of like

768
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 2: music discovery, right, And I'm just like, and it's gonna

769
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 2: be bad. And I know I shouldn't say this, but

770
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 2: it was the time of of pirrating music, so you

771
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:33,239
Speaker 2: know what I mean, So I could. I had I

772
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:37,480
Speaker 2: had an external hard drive with I mean millions of stuff,

773
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:39,440
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, and I just downloaded and

774
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:42,440
Speaker 2: listen to it and listen to it and listen to it. Really,

775
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 2: what's really funny is one of the people that I

776
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 2: really loved after this kind of you know, you go

777
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:50,360
Speaker 2: read a magazine or you know what I mean, and

778
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 2: you would just kind of go all over the place.

779
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 2: One of the people I really loved that was that

780
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 2: was really and I'm glad I do because now it's

781
00:41:57,160 --> 00:42:00,439
Speaker 2: it's funny. It's Tom Waits. And the reason I tom

782
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 2: Waits is because when I would listen to his records,

783
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:05,520
Speaker 2: it sounded like the old lady in our church who

784
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:09,440
Speaker 2: played played, uh, played piano, and I got this, like

785
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 2: his style kind of match some of it. And so

786
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:16,359
Speaker 2: I just I devoured everything, you know what I mean,

787
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:19,400
Speaker 2: because you could at that time like I just devoured everything,

788
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 2: and so I would just I think I still have

789
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 2: that hard drive somewhere. This is all of everything. So

790
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:26,359
Speaker 2: I loved. What was interesting for me is I love

791
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 2: the stuff that made my ears perk up a little bit,

792
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. That wasn't so like standard things,

793
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 2: and so obviously something like talking heads that made you go,

794
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 2: oh what what's that? And so I kind of fell

795
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:41,440
Speaker 2: in love with that. And so that's that was the journey,

796
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:44,080
Speaker 2: and it was it became, no kidding, an obsession. And

797
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:47,240
Speaker 2: I'm talking when I woke up, I listened to music,

798
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 2: you know, go in the bed, I mean from all

799
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:52,839
Speaker 2: when I could cut the grass and listen with my headphones. Man,

800
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:55,359
Speaker 2: that was it my favorite thing to do. We would

801
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 2: escort the big equipment in Alabama, you know, big old

802
00:42:58,120 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 2: pavers and stuff, and I'd get to escort them with

803
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:03,719
Speaker 2: my little truck, and man, I'd listen to records all day,

804
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 2: all day. And that's really kind of where it began.

805
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:12,880
Speaker 1: Okay, just to get the timing right. Did this start

806
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:15,400
Speaker 1: when your appearents got divorced or you moved in with

807
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:17,439
Speaker 1: your father? When did this transition happen?

808
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:18,839
Speaker 2: I think when it moved in when I moved in

809
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:22,280
Speaker 2: with dad, because I was he wasn't in the community anymore,

810
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like he was outside of it,

811
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:27,319
Speaker 2: and you just you feel lost, You feel lost at sea.

812
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:31,440
Speaker 2: And music has always kind of been that that that

813
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 2: compass to kind of lead you in the right direction

814
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 2: or or I mean, you know, we all that. I

815
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 2: think that's why we all we all have flashbowl memories

816
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:42,960
Speaker 2: of music and albums and songs and and so that's

817
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:45,880
Speaker 2: where music just kind of it always felt somewhat spiritual

818
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 2: to me.

819
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:50,759
Speaker 1: Okay, when you were going to these open mics, where

820
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:52,760
Speaker 1: were the open mics? And what were you doing?

821
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:56,360
Speaker 2: They were open mind? There was I think there was

822
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 2: a place called the Oasis Bar that was I think

823
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:00,640
Speaker 2: I was the first one I did down in Burma.

824
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 2: It was just in Birmingham. I mean I never played

825
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 2: anywhere else.

826
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 1: Okay, just so I understand, Chelsea is like forty five

827
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:10,160
Speaker 1: minutes from Birmingham. When you move in with your father,

828
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:11,840
Speaker 1: how far from Birmingham are you?

829
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 2: I think it's like fifteen fifteen minutes. Oh close, close, Yeah,

830
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:17,960
Speaker 2: it was close. It was close to downtown.

831
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:20,400
Speaker 1: And so when you would go to these open mics,

832
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:22,359
Speaker 1: you had a car, how'd you get there?

833
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:24,319
Speaker 2: I did have a car. I did have a car

834
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 2: for a little bit. You know, you'd bum ridse with

835
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:28,960
Speaker 2: friends or whatever you needed to do.

836
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:33,080
Speaker 1: Okay, so you find out there's an open mic, you

837
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:35,480
Speaker 1: go there, no one knows who are you sign up?

838
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 1: It's your little time on stage. What do you actually do? Uh?

839
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:42,680
Speaker 2: Funny enough, you would think, oh, he'd probably do a

840
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:45,279
Speaker 2: cover or two. I would play songs I wrote, and

841
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:47,520
Speaker 2: that was it. That's us all. That's the only reason

842
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:50,680
Speaker 2: I learned to play guitar was the right songs I wrote.

843
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:52,840
Speaker 1: Just to be clear, when did you pick up the

844
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:54,240
Speaker 1: guitar and start writing songs?

845
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:57,440
Speaker 2: It's funny enough. I'm in church when I was about

846
00:44:57,719 --> 00:45:00,800
Speaker 2: I'd say about thirteen started playing guitar.

847
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:07,240
Speaker 1: Okay, you're living with your father, you own a guitar,

848
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:12,440
Speaker 1: you're writing songs. What is the thought process of going

849
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 1: to the open mic because you are going to expose yourself?

850
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:17,680
Speaker 1: What was going through your head?

851
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:20,440
Speaker 2: I think it was just an outlet, you know what

852
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:22,800
Speaker 2: I mean? Like I remember, because you know, I would

853
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:26,520
Speaker 2: I preached in church a little bit, and I love

854
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:30,360
Speaker 2: that kind of performance thing. And there was something about

855
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:33,520
Speaker 2: about me internally that just really loved that performing in

856
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:36,480
Speaker 2: front of people. And and I mean I was nervous

857
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:39,640
Speaker 2: as hell, don't get me wrong, but I just had

858
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:41,960
Speaker 2: that something within me is like, hey, I really enjoy this.

859
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:44,960
Speaker 2: It brings me a lot of joy. Go do it.

860
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 2: And I would go do it, and then then I'd

861
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:47,080
Speaker 2: go do it.

862
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:50,319
Speaker 1: Okay. How many times did you go to the open mic?

863
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 2: Oh? I don't know. It was a lot.

864
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:55,719
Speaker 1: Okay, so you went. How long would they play? How

865
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 1: many people were there? And what kind of reaction did

866
00:45:58,080 --> 00:45:59,399
Speaker 1: your original material get?

867
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:03,480
Speaker 2: Uh? It would vary. Sometimes there'd be three people there

868
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 2: and sometimes there'd be twenty people there. You know, it

869
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:09,799
Speaker 2: was whatever. I think that's when I realized, Okay, maybe

870
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 2: I'm not a bad singer because I wasn't a great

871
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 2: guitar player as good enough, you know what I mean.

872
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:18,880
Speaker 2: But it got a reaction and people would woo or whatever,

873
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 2: and I was like, oh, okay, maybe maybe I got something,

874
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. And so you kinda try

875
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:29,879
Speaker 2: and I don't know deal with Oh.

876
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:34,360
Speaker 1: Okay, did you find you got a reaction pretty quickly

877
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 1: or deeper in your mic appearances?

878
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:40,760
Speaker 2: It was pretty immediate. It was pretty immediate.

879
00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:45,040
Speaker 1: Okay, that feels good, but you're not the only one

880
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:48,000
Speaker 1: on stage. When you were over, do you say, well,

881
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:51,759
Speaker 1: that felt good and I'm pretty good or that felt good,

882
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 1: but Jesus, the ten other people are better than me.

883
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:02,800
Speaker 2: This is funny. I remember being like I'd see somebody

884
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:06,760
Speaker 2: and I mean, I think I sing better than this person,

885
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:08,560
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. You would do that kind

886
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:13,680
Speaker 2: of thing because I do have an internal competition type thing,

887
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:16,399
Speaker 2: which as you, I think you kind of get older,

888
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:18,680
Speaker 2: you kind of just have to realize you focus on yourself.

889
00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 2: But there was still at that time like, oh man,

890
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 2: like there'd be people doing well, you know what I mean,

891
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 2: and I think I think I could do better, you

892
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:28,720
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying. You'd have that mechanism area.

893
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:31,880
Speaker 1: Just to go back, when you're going to school, are

894
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:35,040
Speaker 1: you playing sports, are you doing competition or you're more

895
00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:35,879
Speaker 1: stitting at home.

896
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:37,719
Speaker 2: Well, when I was in high school, I did. I

897
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 2: definitely played played sports.

898
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:51,319
Speaker 1: But after that, no, okay, we're in this game. And

899
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:53,520
Speaker 1: how do you meet the woman who becomes your wife?

900
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 2: I went on a date with a roommate.

901
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:57,400
Speaker 1: How did you end up going out a date with

902
00:47:57,440 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 1: a roommate?

903
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 2: It's a laws. I look, man, I was in a

904
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:05,200
Speaker 2: long relationship. I I you know, I'm I'm I'm a

905
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:07,759
Speaker 2: serial monogamous. I guess is the best way to say.

906
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 2: Uh I? Uh I. I got out of long term

907
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:15,839
Speaker 2: relationship and it felt really lost because the music thing

908
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:18,239
Speaker 2: hadn't happened, and I wasn't you know, I was in

909
00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:23,080
Speaker 2: her weird place. And so through mutual friends meet her roommate.

910
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:26,359
Speaker 2: I'm not sure I was exactly ready to go out

911
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:29,880
Speaker 2: on the date. Went on one date, and uh, Caroline

912
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:33,719
Speaker 2: was there at her at the at the the her

913
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:36,719
Speaker 2: friends have they lived together, and I was like, man,

914
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:38,920
Speaker 2: I like that girl. But I've already you know what

915
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:42,160
Speaker 2: I mean, I've already that this has already happened, you know, like,

916
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:44,719
Speaker 2: it's we've already went on a date. I don't know,

917
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:47,320
Speaker 2: And then I knew pretty pretty much. I was like,

918
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 2: I don't know if this is for me. I don't

919
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:51,920
Speaker 2: I still probably wasn't in the best place to be

920
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:54,040
Speaker 2: dating anybody, and I don't you don't even really know

921
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:56,920
Speaker 2: for roommate was that interested. But Caroline I liked and

922
00:48:57,040 --> 00:49:01,480
Speaker 2: I thought she's really smart and beautiful, and she she

923
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:03,640
Speaker 2: had a scholarship to go to Georgetown to get her

924
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:07,440
Speaker 2: masters and I just thought, this girl is so above me,

925
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:11,440
Speaker 2: class and just classy and just really kind. All these

926
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:14,680
Speaker 2: things right, all the all the things, and uh so

927
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 2: about I'd say about I'd say about six months later,

928
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:22,120
Speaker 2: we start kind of I don't know, texting or something,

929
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:24,000
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, where you start going okay,

930
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:27,880
Speaker 2: And then we were like, uh oh, I think I

931
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:29,799
Speaker 2: think we're I think we're into each other, all right,

932
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 2: So how do we navigate this? And she was leaving

933
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:35,840
Speaker 2: no jokes, she was leaving two months for DC. She

934
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:37,960
Speaker 2: was in Birmingham and she was leaving for two months

935
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:39,920
Speaker 2: or she was leaving it two months to go to

936
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:43,359
Speaker 2: school to get her master's at Georgetown. And so we

937
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:44,839
Speaker 2: were hanging out a lot, you know what I mean,

938
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 2: And we were kind of can I think we like

939
00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 2: each other and so on and so forth. Then when

940
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:50,759
Speaker 2: she moved to d C. We both said hey, cause

941
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:53,920
Speaker 2: I was like, I you do not. I am unemployed

942
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:56,400
Speaker 2: living with my dad. You do not need to stay

943
00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:59,319
Speaker 2: here for me, you know what I mean, like go

944
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:03,160
Speaker 2: to go oh, go to Georgetown, right and uh and

945
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:05,080
Speaker 2: then we said, hey, we'll see what happens, you know,

946
00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:07,960
Speaker 2: Like time she moved to Georgetown in about two weeks

947
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:10,200
Speaker 2: in we were like, uh, we gotta do the long

948
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 2: distance thing. And that's what we did and uh and

949
00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:15,000
Speaker 2: so it all worked out.

950
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:18,759
Speaker 1: Okay, where did she go up to undergrad.

951
00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:21,960
Speaker 2: To Sandford University which is a private university in Birmingham.

952
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:25,359
Speaker 1: And did she stick it out at Georgetown? You did?

953
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:28,560
Speaker 2: You got a full ride and got her masters and

954
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:34,040
Speaker 2: want to her masters in literature. Okay, just to go

955
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:38,080
Speaker 2: back a step, you say you're a serial monogamous. So

956
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:42,080
Speaker 2: you're someone who had a lot of girlfriends before Caroline. No,

957
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:45,279
Speaker 2: I I've just I was pretty I was kind of

958
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 2: a one woman kind of guy. Though. If I was in,

959
00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:49,720
Speaker 2: I was in, you know what I mean, Like probably

960
00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:52,120
Speaker 2: you know what I mean I was in like I

961
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:54,560
Speaker 2: I was like very loyal and and that kind of

962
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:58,080
Speaker 2: thing may be the wrong terminology for it, but that's

963
00:50:58,320 --> 00:50:59,160
Speaker 2: that's how I was.

964
00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:03,480
Speaker 1: But you weren't. I mean, there are a lot of

965
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:06,640
Speaker 1: people I was sitting home playing the guitar, too scared

966
00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:09,279
Speaker 1: to talk to girls. It wasn't until I was a star.

967
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:12,640
Speaker 1: You were with the ladies all long.

968
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:17,560
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I had girlfriends previous of being in St.

969
00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:18,400
Speaker 2: Paul and Brother Bones.

970
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:24,000
Speaker 1: Yes, so you Caroline is your age older younger. She's

971
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:28,759
Speaker 1: three years younger, three years younger. Okay, so when you

972
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:32,360
Speaker 1: meet her, she's like twenty two and you're like twenty five.

973
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:35,399
Speaker 2: I would say I was. It was more like I

974
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:39,000
Speaker 2: was twenties. Well, yeah, that's that's close. That's actually yeah,

975
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:42,040
Speaker 2: you're right, GotY Jesus, we've known each other that long.

976
00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:47,480
Speaker 1: Wow, Okay, Okay, she finishes grad school. What does she

977
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:48,080
Speaker 1: then do?

978
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:51,960
Speaker 2: So she had a lot, you know, a lot more

979
00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:55,480
Speaker 2: options than I did. She knew she wanted to come

980
00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:58,400
Speaker 2: back to Birmingham because we had, you know, we were dating.

981
00:51:58,400 --> 00:51:59,960
Speaker 2: We were pretty I mean obviously at that point, very

982
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:04,040
Speaker 2: seriously dating. So she comes back to Birmingham and she

983
00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:10,680
Speaker 2: goes back to she works for Sanford University. She works there.

984
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:12,880
Speaker 2: I can't remember her exact role. I know that she

985
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:18,040
Speaker 2: ended up being the associate director of the Honors program

986
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:22,200
Speaker 2: of the Honors college there, and so that's what she

987
00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:23,960
Speaker 2: ended up doing for a while.

988
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:31,560
Speaker 1: Okay, you're living with your dad. What does she say?

989
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:34,400
Speaker 1: Did she say it? I like you, but you gotta

990
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:36,239
Speaker 1: get it together. You got to go to school. How

991
00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:37,840
Speaker 1: did you end up going to community college? What was

992
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:38,600
Speaker 1: going on there?

993
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:42,520
Speaker 2: That's exactly what happened. So she I always tell this

994
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:45,759
Speaker 2: story her. She's from Bristol, Tennessee, and I go up

995
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:47,560
Speaker 2: there to meet her parents, and her parents are some

996
00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:50,080
Speaker 2: of the sweetest, best people in the world. And I

997
00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:52,840
Speaker 2: had only two outfits for three days and her parents

998
00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:56,080
Speaker 2: cried when they met me because they were like, this

999
00:52:56,239 --> 00:53:00,960
Speaker 2: is the guy you bring home. This is it. It's unemployed.

1000
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:04,000
Speaker 2: You know, I ain't got no ambit, doesn't seem like

1001
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:07,640
Speaker 2: anything's going for him or anything. And she saw I mean,

1002
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:10,480
Speaker 2: I I it is true that it is. She's the

1003
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:13,360
Speaker 2: reason why this happened because she had a little faith

1004
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:17,520
Speaker 2: in me. But yeah, that basically what happened was she

1005
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:20,879
Speaker 2: was like, hey, I really like you, but you got

1006
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:23,279
Speaker 2: to get a job, like you gotta have something going on.

1007
00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:26,640
Speaker 2: And she's like and I was like, yeah, you're right.

1008
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:28,400
Speaker 2: I mean, she was right, And I didn't realize it

1009
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:30,239
Speaker 2: at the time. I was probably depressed, you know what

1010
00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:32,759
Speaker 2: I mean. But you don't realize it necessarily when you're

1011
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:34,680
Speaker 2: in it, and then you get out of you Oh,

1012
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:36,840
Speaker 2: that's definitely not in a good place, you know what

1013
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:40,719
Speaker 2: I mean. So, yeah, I worked at a job. I

1014
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:42,440
Speaker 2: worked at it. I got a job at a phibit

1015
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:47,560
Speaker 2: sporting good store, a sporting good store, making less working

1016
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:51,080
Speaker 2: at sporting good short store than I wasn't unemployment and uh,

1017
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:53,840
Speaker 2: which you know. But and then went to community and decided,

1018
00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:56,280
Speaker 2: all right, I really got to do something. If I'm

1019
00:53:56,280 --> 00:53:59,120
Speaker 2: going to keep this girl, I gotta I got So

1020
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:02,279
Speaker 2: I went to community college in Birmingham.

1021
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:04,880
Speaker 1: So how long did you go to school that time?

1022
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:08,800
Speaker 2: I went for two years, I guess, however you graduate

1023
00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:10,799
Speaker 2: community college or however, you know what I mean, like,

1024
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:15,440
Speaker 2: however that works. And then and then went to UAB

1025
00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:19,680
Speaker 2: which is a you know, a four year university for accounting,

1026
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:24,160
Speaker 2: and lasted I think two semesters there and then and

1027
00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:27,359
Speaker 2: then the then my life got blown up with the band.

1028
00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:33,920
Speaker 1: Okay, you have a four year old, how do you

1029
00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:36,680
Speaker 1: ultimately decide to have a kid, because it's not soon

1030
00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:38,360
Speaker 1: after you meet her.

1031
00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:41,200
Speaker 2: Well, I mean when we first met, I don't think

1032
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:43,200
Speaker 2: kids were a thing that we were thinking about. I

1033
00:54:43,239 --> 00:54:48,160
Speaker 2: think we were both fairly ambitious maybe, and we were

1034
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:52,160
Speaker 2: just like you know, I always tell the story though

1035
00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:55,200
Speaker 2: we uh, we played a show, We played some shows

1036
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:58,680
Speaker 2: in Japan and my wife, my wife came and we

1037
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:02,520
Speaker 2: did like a full week of Japan and we'd already

1038
00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:04,880
Speaker 2: traveled and gotten to do all this amazing stuff, you know,

1039
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:07,440
Speaker 2: the band, the band and her job at that point,

1040
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:12,120
Speaker 2: and we both were like, Okay, we've done about it.

1041
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:16,480
Speaker 2: I've lived ten lifetimes at this point, I think, and

1042
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:18,520
Speaker 2: we were like, if we're gonna have a kid, this

1043
00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:22,520
Speaker 2: is the time to do it. And we did and it,

1044
00:55:22,719 --> 00:55:25,000
Speaker 2: I mean, as everyone said, the most cliche thing was

1045
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:27,680
Speaker 2: the best decision we ever made. And all of the right,

1046
00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:30,600
Speaker 2: all those things right, and it is, it's it's the

1047
00:55:30,640 --> 00:55:32,440
Speaker 2: good thing is And what I love is that my

1048
00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:35,840
Speaker 2: daughter is growing up in a house of love, you

1049
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:37,719
Speaker 2: know what I mean? And that's I don't I don't

1050
00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:40,239
Speaker 2: everybody not everybody gets that, and I think that's a

1051
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:42,839
Speaker 2: really beautiful thing. But yeah, that's it was. Yeah, that's

1052
00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:45,759
Speaker 2: when we Japan will always hold a special place in

1053
00:55:45,800 --> 00:55:48,479
Speaker 2: my heart because that's kind of when we decided, all right,

1054
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:49,960
Speaker 2: let's do this.

1055
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:55,560
Speaker 1: Okay, Saint Paul and the broken bones starts to happen.

1056
00:55:56,080 --> 00:56:00,360
Speaker 1: Does your wife continue to work? Is she's still working now?

1057
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:04,600
Speaker 2: Yes? She she? I mean she had to. I mean,

1058
00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:07,920
Speaker 2: you know, this our business, like I make a decent

1059
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:10,920
Speaker 2: living and I live in Alabama, but it ain't you

1060
00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:14,440
Speaker 2: know what I mean, we make it work and uh

1061
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:16,720
Speaker 2: so we have we have to have two incomes though.

1062
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:21,200
Speaker 2: I mean, unfortunately, my wife moved to the nonprofit sector

1063
00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:24,120
Speaker 2: here recently, you know, not you know a few years ago,

1064
00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:28,040
Speaker 2: and unfortunately, as I'm sure a lot of people know,

1065
00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:34,360
Speaker 2: that sector has been decimated here, uh since January. And

1066
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:38,480
Speaker 2: so she is, she's she's she's sad to start her

1067
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:41,640
Speaker 2: own thing and everything, but she yeah, she's been. I'm

1068
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:43,799
Speaker 2: proud of her. But it's been a it's been a

1069
00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:44,520
Speaker 2: long journey.

1070
00:56:45,560 --> 00:56:50,200
Speaker 1: Okay. Alabama is a unique place. I certainly know people

1071
00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:55,120
Speaker 1: live in Birmingham, very sophisticated. Okay, but when it comes

1072
00:56:55,160 --> 00:57:00,200
Speaker 1: to states and esteem and the rest of the population

1073
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:05,160
Speaker 1: you got there, Mississippi, Alabama, maybe Louisiana. So tell us

1074
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:07,919
Speaker 1: about Alabama and what people who don't live there don't

1075
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:08,640
Speaker 1: get about it.

1076
00:57:09,160 --> 00:57:13,960
Speaker 2: What they don't get about it. People can be really

1077
00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:18,680
Speaker 2: kind here. I know, Southern hospitality is a real thing.

1078
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:24,680
Speaker 2: I think that you. I think people would be surprised

1079
00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:28,560
Speaker 2: by you know, there's if when your neighbors with somebody

1080
00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:31,440
Speaker 2: like you would take the shirt off your back and

1081
00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:33,080
Speaker 2: and help, you know what I mean, and help people.

1082
00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:36,840
Speaker 2: I think that's part of it. Uh though I don't

1083
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:39,840
Speaker 2: it's funny. I think a lot of people go they

1084
00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:43,400
Speaker 2: go to the intelligent stuff. But I like to point

1085
00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:46,440
Speaker 2: out that we build, you know, build rockets in Huntsville,

1086
00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:50,480
Speaker 2: so we have literal rockets, scientists that live in the state.

1087
00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:53,640
Speaker 2: So it isn't all you know what I mean. It

1088
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:58,840
Speaker 2: ain't all overalls and hayseeds and racism, you know. So

1089
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:03,640
Speaker 2: it's a it's a I I have my issues with it,

1090
00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:08,200
Speaker 2: of course I live here, but I also it's a

1091
00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:13,200
Speaker 2: beautiful state. I have, it's affordable and you can have

1092
00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:16,400
Speaker 2: I mean, to me, what's really interesting is in Birmingham

1093
00:58:16,400 --> 00:58:18,560
Speaker 2: we have one of the best hospitals in the country.

1094
00:58:19,080 --> 00:58:23,040
Speaker 2: We have great education in Birmingham or you know, around Birmingham.

1095
00:58:23,160 --> 00:58:27,919
Speaker 2: So I think people it's honestly like it's a great

1096
00:58:28,080 --> 00:58:30,480
Speaker 2: it is. It is a great place to live. And

1097
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:33,240
Speaker 2: I don't think I think people kind of him in Hall,

1098
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:38,200
Speaker 2: especially up in the northeast. But it's like, no, there

1099
00:58:38,200 --> 00:58:41,280
Speaker 2: are good things that happen here, and there's also bad

1100
00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:42,200
Speaker 2: things that happen here.

1101
00:58:43,720 --> 00:58:47,040
Speaker 1: Okay, you have this buddy. The buddy says he's gonna

1102
00:58:47,080 --> 00:58:51,680
Speaker 1: move on, let's record our stuff as an EP. What

1103
00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:52,720
Speaker 1: happens then.

1104
00:58:54,920 --> 00:58:57,920
Speaker 2: Well, uh he he is the social butterfly, so he

1105
00:58:58,000 --> 00:59:00,160
Speaker 2: knows everybody else is gonna play on the record, and

1106
00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:05,800
Speaker 2: so he browan who's the guitar player in this band? Alan,

1107
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:07,760
Speaker 2: who's the trumpet player in this band? And he knew

1108
00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:13,520
Speaker 2: the trombone player and the drummer. And we all, you know,

1109
00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:15,160
Speaker 2: we had to see it through, you know what I mean.

1110
00:59:15,160 --> 00:59:17,840
Speaker 2: Once we started making it, we went, uh oh, we

1111
00:59:17,880 --> 00:59:18,840
Speaker 2: got to see this through.

1112
00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:21,200
Speaker 1: Okay, let me let me just stop for a second.

1113
00:59:21,600 --> 00:59:24,040
Speaker 1: You're with the woman. She becomes your wife at some point,

1114
00:59:24,080 --> 00:59:27,480
Speaker 1: I don't know when, but you're with hers solidly you're

1115
00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:31,360
Speaker 1: going to school. What is going on in your musical life?

1116
00:59:31,760 --> 00:59:34,960
Speaker 1: Are you still playing open? What is going on before

1117
00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:36,280
Speaker 1: you decide to make this EP?

1118
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:39,000
Speaker 2: Me and Jesse are playing together, and we'd play at

1119
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:41,400
Speaker 2: his house and we'd do little coffee shop events and

1120
00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:44,080
Speaker 2: stuff like that, Like there's really not It wasn't anything

1121
00:59:44,080 --> 00:59:52,560
Speaker 2: of major scale for sure, and so we we we

1122
00:59:52,600 --> 00:59:54,680
Speaker 2: are just doing that and we'd I played his house

1123
00:59:54,720 --> 00:59:55,600
Speaker 2: and so on and so forth.

1124
00:59:55,680 --> 01:00:02,000
Speaker 1: Okay, is the dream there at all? Is it still there?

1125
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:07,240
Speaker 1: Is the hunger still there? What's going through your mind?

1126
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:10,080
Speaker 2: The dream was to sell out a Bottle Tree Cafe

1127
01:00:10,160 --> 01:00:14,880
Speaker 2: in Birmingham, Alabama, which was a two hundred and ten

1128
01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:19,600
Speaker 2: cap room. That was the dream. I mean, to this day,

1129
01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:22,280
Speaker 2: the only thing I have framed from our career is

1130
01:00:22,320 --> 01:00:24,480
Speaker 2: the sold out sign when we sold that place out

1131
01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:30,720
Speaker 2: one time. That was the dream. So it's I don't

1132
01:00:30,720 --> 01:00:33,760
Speaker 2: want to say your goals changed though, right Like you

1133
01:00:33,800 --> 01:00:36,560
Speaker 2: accomplish that and you go, all right, what's next? And

1134
01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:39,520
Speaker 2: then it was like, oh, really I work security at Bonnaroo.

1135
01:00:39,520 --> 01:00:41,200
Speaker 2: I want to play Bonnaroe. W Well, we played Bonnarue

1136
01:00:41,200 --> 01:00:43,480
Speaker 2: in twenty fourteen, and then you know, and now the

1137
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:47,080
Speaker 2: goal is Red Rocks and we and we want to

1138
01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:49,520
Speaker 2: headline Red Rocks. That's the goal now with this band.

1139
01:00:49,880 --> 01:00:52,400
Speaker 2: And so we've just changed the goals. So the U

1140
01:00:52,760 --> 01:00:56,200
Speaker 2: the drive's still there. The drive still there is just

1141
01:00:56,240 --> 01:00:59,640
Speaker 2: we just have had to change the goals a few times,

1142
01:00:59,680 --> 01:01:00,800
Speaker 2: which is an amazing feeling.

1143
01:01:01,800 --> 01:01:07,680
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back, you're gonna record this EP. Jesse's

1144
01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:12,480
Speaker 1: a social butterfly, starts pulling the people together. So what happens?

1145
01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:16,680
Speaker 2: So we do a so we're you know, we we

1146
01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:20,040
Speaker 2: start selling selling real tickets in Birmingham, you know what

1147
01:01:20,080 --> 01:01:21,600
Speaker 2: I mean? Like we did what?

1148
01:01:22,040 --> 01:01:24,760
Speaker 1: Whoa wha wha wait wait you're playing with Jesse in

1149
01:01:24,800 --> 01:01:28,280
Speaker 1: his house. Yeah, how do you end up selling tickets?

1150
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:30,520
Speaker 1: Is the EP done and people wear the EP? Or

1151
01:01:30,520 --> 01:01:31,360
Speaker 1: do you start playing out?

1152
01:01:31,360 --> 01:01:33,080
Speaker 2: How do you start playing out? We started the EP,

1153
01:01:33,320 --> 01:01:35,880
Speaker 2: you know, it's not really done, but we start playing out.

1154
01:01:36,240 --> 01:01:38,400
Speaker 1: And is it a big band? Like it turns out

1155
01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:38,600
Speaker 1: to be?

1156
01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:41,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it was at that point. I think it

1157
01:01:41,840 --> 01:01:44,000
Speaker 2: was six At that point. I don't think we had

1158
01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:47,040
Speaker 2: it and it's all original material, all original material for

1159
01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:50,000
Speaker 2: the most part. Now we did because we played the

1160
01:01:50,040 --> 01:01:54,080
Speaker 2: same place like once every two weeks, which is not

1161
01:01:54,440 --> 01:01:57,320
Speaker 2: just supposed to do right. We did start doing things

1162
01:01:57,400 --> 01:02:01,840
Speaker 2: where we would do like Otis Blo in its entirety

1163
01:02:02,120 --> 01:02:06,120
Speaker 2: or a Wilson Pickett record in its entirety, just to

1164
01:02:06,240 --> 01:02:08,400
Speaker 2: like change it up, you know what I mean, like

1165
01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:11,120
Speaker 2: chant chant, to do something different. So we did that.

1166
01:02:12,120 --> 01:02:15,320
Speaker 2: We did that as well. So but for a large

1167
01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:18,160
Speaker 2: part of it was I mean, we we were touring on.

1168
01:02:18,280 --> 01:02:21,040
Speaker 2: We were doing original materials then throwing a cover in there,

1169
01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:22,560
Speaker 2: you know, ever so often.

1170
01:02:23,320 --> 01:02:27,280
Speaker 1: Okay, so what's the timeline you start to make this record?

1171
01:02:27,680 --> 01:02:30,800
Speaker 1: You have a band, you start playing out, how long

1172
01:02:30,840 --> 01:02:33,040
Speaker 1: does it take till the record is finished? And then

1173
01:02:33,080 --> 01:02:34,120
Speaker 1: what happens after that?

1174
01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:36,960
Speaker 2: So the EP gets done, it's a pretty easy you

1175
01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:39,360
Speaker 2: know that there's nobody's releasing it. We just have it.

1176
01:02:39,400 --> 01:02:42,960
Speaker 2: We own it. There's nothing nothing to it, right, We're

1177
01:02:43,080 --> 01:02:46,720
Speaker 2: we're not chasing management or anything like that. We just

1178
01:02:47,000 --> 01:02:50,520
Speaker 2: have it. Uh. But what's interesting is we had a

1179
01:02:50,520 --> 01:02:55,240
Speaker 2: friend of Jesse's or a friend of ours, had this

1180
01:02:55,520 --> 01:02:59,320
Speaker 2: I think it was called Rhythm and Roots televised thing

1181
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:03,680
Speaker 2: and Nash and that that's it was. And she had

1182
01:03:03,720 --> 01:03:06,120
Speaker 2: reached out to Jesse and was like, hey, would y'all

1183
01:03:06,160 --> 01:03:09,919
Speaker 2: be interested in doing this, and and we were like, sure,

1184
01:03:10,080 --> 01:03:12,880
Speaker 2: why not? And so, I mean, there's the clips out

1185
01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:14,960
Speaker 2: there of a song that we had to make up

1186
01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:18,080
Speaker 2: the day before because we didn't have enough material to play.

1187
01:03:18,880 --> 01:03:24,360
Speaker 2: But some uh are someone saw the video of us,

1188
01:03:24,560 --> 01:03:26,520
Speaker 2: said when that video went out, someone saw that video

1189
01:03:27,120 --> 01:03:29,360
Speaker 2: and they reached out and said and they knew Brown

1190
01:03:30,480 --> 01:03:33,240
Speaker 2: and they reached out and said, hey, is this serious?

1191
01:03:33,240 --> 01:03:35,960
Speaker 2: And and and it was uh, it was Tracy who

1192
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:39,480
Speaker 2: was a manager, and she was you know, and she

1193
01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:43,520
Speaker 2: she uh then that then once she got involved, everything changed.

1194
01:03:44,840 --> 01:03:50,000
Speaker 2: Go tell me, well, I mean she she you know,

1195
01:03:50,120 --> 01:03:54,000
Speaker 2: she knew she had she she manages Jason Isbell and

1196
01:03:54,120 --> 01:03:57,320
Speaker 2: you know, Jason, Jason is what Jason is. At that time,

1197
01:03:57,360 --> 01:03:59,560
Speaker 2: he wasn't you know what I mean, he was just

1198
01:03:59,640 --> 01:04:03,680
Speaker 2: kind of starting for him. But she knew, she she

1199
01:04:03,920 --> 01:04:05,440
Speaker 2: you know, she knew like, hey, we got to get

1200
01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:08,520
Speaker 2: a booking agent. We have to you know, see what

1201
01:04:08,560 --> 01:04:11,520
Speaker 2: the label situation. But we had met funny enough, we

1202
01:04:11,560 --> 01:04:16,640
Speaker 2: had met single Lock a month or two before we

1203
01:04:16,720 --> 01:04:19,600
Speaker 2: met her. So we had single Locks like, hey, we'll

1204
01:04:19,640 --> 01:04:22,560
Speaker 2: get you a van. And we were like, okay, sounds great.

1205
01:04:22,640 --> 01:04:25,400
Speaker 2: That sounds like a great record deal. And so we

1206
01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:27,960
Speaker 2: we we did that. We we uh so we had

1207
01:04:27,960 --> 01:04:30,320
Speaker 2: to deal with them and made a record, then made

1208
01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:33,720
Speaker 2: a record with them and with Ben Tanner and so

1209
01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:37,240
Speaker 2: we you know, it was you had to navigate all

1210
01:04:37,280 --> 01:04:38,880
Speaker 2: that and it was just get on the road.

1211
01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:42,919
Speaker 1: Okay, Just could be clear. How did Single Lock find

1212
01:04:42,920 --> 01:04:45,000
Speaker 1: out about you? And how many gigs had you done

1213
01:04:45,040 --> 01:04:46,000
Speaker 1: before they did?

1214
01:04:46,360 --> 01:04:50,360
Speaker 2: How many ge We had only done maybe fifteen to

1215
01:04:50,440 --> 01:04:53,560
Speaker 2: twenty gigs before Single Lock found out about us, which

1216
01:04:53,680 --> 01:04:56,160
Speaker 2: wasn't a lot that not as a band. You know,

1217
01:04:56,320 --> 01:04:58,600
Speaker 2: everybody else in the band had played, you know, ton

1218
01:04:58,840 --> 01:05:01,640
Speaker 2: I had, but as a band, we hadn't played a lot.

1219
01:05:01,760 --> 01:05:05,720
Speaker 2: So but single locke Ben Tanner and you know browing

1220
01:05:06,200 --> 01:05:08,840
Speaker 2: the guitar players from Muscle shoals from that area, so

1221
01:05:09,040 --> 01:05:12,120
Speaker 2: from Florence and so he he knew Ben and they

1222
01:05:12,200 --> 01:05:16,040
Speaker 2: reached out and and uh and we were like, I

1223
01:05:16,080 --> 01:05:20,120
Speaker 2: mean nobody was, no one cared, you know what I'm saying, Like,

1224
01:05:20,360 --> 01:05:23,040
Speaker 2: no one cared. And so we were like, oh, yeah,

1225
01:05:23,080 --> 01:05:26,080
Speaker 2: someone's interested, and they're like gonna provide us free recording

1226
01:05:26,120 --> 01:05:29,800
Speaker 2: time and a free van, and it's like, yeah, these

1227
01:05:29,840 --> 01:05:32,520
Speaker 2: are our guys. And then then that happened, and then

1228
01:05:32,520 --> 01:05:36,080
Speaker 2: I would say about two months later we Tracy, Tracy

1229
01:05:36,240 --> 01:05:39,720
Speaker 2: found out about us, and it kind of all but

1230
01:05:39,840 --> 01:05:43,000
Speaker 2: it was just and then it was just like tour,

1231
01:05:44,080 --> 01:05:44,720
Speaker 2: get on the road.

1232
01:05:44,760 --> 01:05:50,000
Speaker 1: Wait a second, you have a professional manager, but it's

1233
01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:52,000
Speaker 1: not like you've been on the road regularly, have a

1234
01:05:52,040 --> 01:05:53,640
Speaker 1: lot of recordings. You want to tour. Who the hell

1235
01:05:53,680 --> 01:05:55,320
Speaker 1: is gonna book you? Where the hell you gonna play?

1236
01:05:56,760 --> 01:06:02,160
Speaker 2: Great question, my friend, that's a great question. Uh we

1237
01:06:02,160 --> 01:06:05,680
Speaker 2: we I mean we uh we were booking in our

1238
01:06:05,720 --> 01:06:09,040
Speaker 2: sales for a hot minute. But once Tracy got involved,

1239
01:06:09,160 --> 01:06:11,080
Speaker 2: it was very much like we got to get a

1240
01:06:11,080 --> 01:06:15,520
Speaker 2: booking agent to handle this. And and so once we

1241
01:06:15,760 --> 01:06:18,320
Speaker 2: it's went south by southwest you still did that thing,

1242
01:06:18,480 --> 01:06:23,000
Speaker 2: you know, and you'd go down there and we got

1243
01:06:23,040 --> 01:06:26,720
Speaker 2: hooked up with a high road touring Frank Riley and

1244
01:06:26,760 --> 01:06:30,320
Speaker 2: Brian Jonas and Brian's Brian's one of my favorite people

1245
01:06:30,360 --> 01:06:32,640
Speaker 2: on the planet and he's the books us to this day.

1246
01:06:34,680 --> 01:06:38,160
Speaker 2: And it was just anything and we did anything. We

1247
01:06:38,200 --> 01:06:42,280
Speaker 2: would We would play by Misfah's, we would play weddings,

1248
01:06:42,320 --> 01:06:45,080
Speaker 2: we would do if there was I mean, if there

1249
01:06:45,160 --> 01:06:49,040
Speaker 2: was money at all, anything we'd go do it, and

1250
01:06:49,040 --> 01:06:51,600
Speaker 2: and that really we had had a record. We'd had

1251
01:06:51,600 --> 01:06:55,520
Speaker 2: our debut record, Half the City, cut in January because

1252
01:06:55,520 --> 01:06:59,680
Speaker 2: the band started in July twenty twenty twelve, and then

1253
01:06:59,720 --> 01:07:04,080
Speaker 2: we had had a full length album recorded by January

1254
01:07:04,160 --> 01:07:06,480
Speaker 2: twenty thirteen. But we sat on that record for a

1255
01:07:06,560 --> 01:07:09,320
Speaker 2: whole year and toured on a record that wasn't out.

1256
01:07:10,800 --> 01:07:12,120
Speaker 1: When was the logic there?

1257
01:07:13,000 --> 01:07:14,600
Speaker 2: I think it was. I mean, I think it was

1258
01:07:14,600 --> 01:07:16,240
Speaker 2: just getting getting it. We were kind of, you know,

1259
01:07:16,280 --> 01:07:19,560
Speaker 2: we were greener than Goose shit, and we needed to

1260
01:07:19,600 --> 01:07:22,040
Speaker 2: get some shows under our belt.

1261
01:07:22,800 --> 01:07:27,720
Speaker 1: And in that year, how many times did the band play?

1262
01:07:28,160 --> 01:07:33,640
Speaker 2: Oh, I don't know, it was. I mean I know

1263
01:07:33,720 --> 01:07:36,480
Speaker 2: in twenty fourteen when Half the City came out, we

1264
01:07:36,480 --> 01:07:39,919
Speaker 2: were out three hundred days.

1265
01:07:40,960 --> 01:07:54,280
Speaker 1: Okay, just to stay there, let's go back. You have

1266
01:07:54,320 --> 01:07:58,200
Speaker 1: a professional manager, Tracy, you have this deal with single

1267
01:07:58,240 --> 01:08:01,320
Speaker 1: Locke sit on it for you. What does she then

1268
01:08:01,480 --> 01:08:03,720
Speaker 1: say about getting a record deal?

1269
01:08:04,600 --> 01:08:06,400
Speaker 2: Well, I mean we we had the single lock thing,

1270
01:08:06,480 --> 01:08:08,360
Speaker 2: so she's she. I think her thing was like, hey,

1271
01:08:08,760 --> 01:08:11,320
Speaker 2: we need to get thirty Tigers involved, and we did

1272
01:08:11,880 --> 01:08:14,040
Speaker 2: and they were a great partner, and so that really

1273
01:08:14,120 --> 01:08:17,160
Speaker 2: I think that process helped. So there that was the

1274
01:08:17,439 --> 01:08:18,880
Speaker 2: That was the label, you know what I mean, Single

1275
01:08:18,920 --> 01:08:22,439
Speaker 2: lock was the label. And and then thirty Tigers came

1276
01:08:22,479 --> 01:08:25,439
Speaker 2: in and I think helped with a lot of a

1277
01:08:25,439 --> 01:08:28,519
Speaker 2: lot of things as well. So it was a it

1278
01:08:28,560 --> 01:08:30,720
Speaker 2: was an interesting thing, you know what I mean, because we,

1279
01:08:31,640 --> 01:08:33,000
Speaker 2: like I said, we didn't know our ass from the

1280
01:08:33,040 --> 01:08:36,400
Speaker 2: hole in the ground. So we we were like, someone's interested, great,

1281
01:08:36,479 --> 01:08:40,840
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, And so we figured we

1282
01:08:40,880 --> 01:08:42,680
Speaker 2: got that figured out, and it you know, and it

1283
01:08:43,439 --> 01:08:46,760
Speaker 2: and so we tour twenty thirteen. I mean it was

1284
01:08:47,000 --> 01:08:48,719
Speaker 2: I mean, I was I don't know, I was gone.

1285
01:08:48,960 --> 01:08:52,519
Speaker 2: I remember being home a lot and uh. And then

1286
01:08:52,560 --> 01:08:54,320
Speaker 2: we turned around and did it again the next year

1287
01:08:54,360 --> 01:08:56,719
Speaker 2: when Half the City came out in February twenty fourteen.

1288
01:08:57,560 --> 01:09:01,000
Speaker 1: Okay, there are eight people in the band, where there

1289
01:09:01,000 --> 01:09:03,719
Speaker 1: were six at at time. You're an unknown act going

1290
01:09:03,760 --> 01:09:05,280
Speaker 1: on the road. How the hell do you make it

1291
01:09:05,320 --> 01:09:06,240
Speaker 1: work economically?

1292
01:09:08,160 --> 01:09:11,559
Speaker 2: Well, you got a wife. Our girlfriend is living at home,

1293
01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:15,400
Speaker 2: working a job in our one bedroom apartment. I had that.

1294
01:09:17,439 --> 01:09:19,400
Speaker 1: What about the other members of the bed They all,

1295
01:09:19,600 --> 01:09:20,320
Speaker 1: we all all.

1296
01:09:20,200 --> 01:09:21,680
Speaker 2: Of them kept their jobs, you know what I mean,

1297
01:09:21,760 --> 01:09:26,080
Speaker 2: or we all had to. Luckily, Jesse worked for a

1298
01:09:26,479 --> 01:09:28,880
Speaker 2: music shop that he knew really well, and they were

1299
01:09:29,080 --> 01:09:32,880
Speaker 2: very understanding, you know what I mean, And Browing was

1300
01:09:32,880 --> 01:09:37,639
Speaker 2: painting houses. A couple of guys were still in college

1301
01:09:37,680 --> 01:09:42,360
Speaker 2: sort of, so they I think one took an online

1302
01:09:43,320 --> 01:09:45,360
Speaker 2: Like we just made it work, you know what I mean,

1303
01:09:45,400 --> 01:09:49,120
Speaker 2: whether we had to, we just we knew, just made

1304
01:09:49,160 --> 01:09:49,519
Speaker 2: it work.

1305
01:09:50,280 --> 01:09:53,920
Speaker 1: It's hard enough to keep a three or four piece

1306
01:09:54,040 --> 01:09:57,960
Speaker 1: being together. How do you keep an eight piece being together?

1307
01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:03,720
Speaker 2: You share the revenue, but.

1308
01:10:03,800 --> 01:10:07,479
Speaker 1: Even someone's got a piece with eight ways, I agree

1309
01:10:07,520 --> 01:10:08,000
Speaker 1: with you.

1310
01:10:08,080 --> 01:10:12,240
Speaker 2: Like I said, I ain't a millionaire, you know what

1311
01:10:12,280 --> 01:10:12,599
Speaker 2: I mean.

1312
01:10:12,880 --> 01:10:16,760
Speaker 1: Okay, so there been some band member changes. Is it

1313
01:10:16,800 --> 01:10:20,040
Speaker 1: because somebody came and said, you know, I love this,

1314
01:10:20,720 --> 01:10:24,080
Speaker 1: I just can't do this anymore. I don't have any money.

1315
01:10:24,200 --> 01:10:26,120
Speaker 1: Or did you basically say hey, we want to make

1316
01:10:26,160 --> 01:10:28,280
Speaker 1: a change. How did the members change?

1317
01:10:28,400 --> 01:10:32,360
Speaker 2: It was each one had, you know, had its own thing,

1318
01:10:32,400 --> 01:10:34,400
Speaker 2: like we had some We had some to say, hey,

1319
01:10:34,439 --> 01:10:36,000
Speaker 2: they just weren't fit for touring like that. And to

1320
01:10:36,040 --> 01:10:37,439
Speaker 2: be fair, I don't know a lot of people who

1321
01:10:37,479 --> 01:10:40,320
Speaker 2: were fit to tour three hundred days out of the year,

1322
01:10:40,840 --> 01:10:42,720
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like, I really don't. It's

1323
01:10:42,720 --> 01:10:45,720
Speaker 2: a really hard thing to do. Luckily we're not at

1324
01:10:45,760 --> 01:10:50,160
Speaker 2: that point now. But yay, we had some and then

1325
01:10:50,160 --> 01:10:53,920
Speaker 2: we had some that, like you know, it's there needed

1326
01:10:53,920 --> 01:10:55,840
Speaker 2: to be a change made, whether you know there was

1327
01:10:55,880 --> 01:10:57,240
Speaker 2: personal thing, you know what I mean, you know how

1328
01:10:57,280 --> 01:11:00,639
Speaker 2: it is. We've we've only we've had we have change

1329
01:11:00,720 --> 01:11:03,920
Speaker 2: drummer and trombone player and that's that's it.

1330
01:11:05,080 --> 01:11:08,200
Speaker 1: Okay, So how many people in the band today? Eight

1331
01:11:09,439 --> 01:11:12,679
Speaker 1: and you've only changed two members in the whole time we.

1332
01:11:12,640 --> 01:11:16,439
Speaker 2: Had Yeah, well we had a saxophone player in but

1333
01:11:16,520 --> 01:11:17,800
Speaker 2: he it was kind of one of the it was

1334
01:11:17,880 --> 01:11:19,040
Speaker 2: kind of one of us that he had a family.

1335
01:11:19,880 --> 01:11:22,639
Speaker 2: So it's yeah, of the original six.

1336
01:11:23,000 --> 01:11:28,559
Speaker 1: Yes, just too okay, So you have these eight people,

1337
01:11:29,040 --> 01:11:31,320
Speaker 1: you go on the road, just split the money eight ways,

1338
01:11:31,360 --> 01:11:32,400
Speaker 1: whatever the net may be.

1339
01:11:34,200 --> 01:11:38,920
Speaker 2: Well, it's tricky because we have we have five we

1340
01:11:39,000 --> 01:11:42,840
Speaker 2: have owners in the LLC, right, some are not owners,

1341
01:11:42,840 --> 01:11:47,439
Speaker 2: some or not. It's really it's actually fairly complicated. I

1342
01:11:47,439 --> 01:11:50,960
Speaker 2: feel bad for our business manager, but you know, that's

1343
01:11:51,040 --> 01:11:55,000
Speaker 2: why they get paid. So we have five owners that

1344
01:11:55,040 --> 01:11:58,920
Speaker 2: were a part of the original, uh situation, and then

1345
01:11:58,960 --> 01:11:59,840
Speaker 2: we have three who are not.

1346
01:12:01,120 --> 01:12:03,360
Speaker 1: Okay, so there are three side men. So pay on

1347
01:12:03,400 --> 01:12:06,120
Speaker 1: the road is different. Yes, what about on the records?

1348
01:12:06,640 --> 01:12:07,200
Speaker 1: Same thing?

1349
01:12:07,560 --> 01:12:07,640
Speaker 3: No?

1350
01:12:08,479 --> 01:12:12,559
Speaker 2: We uh like this last record we went uh thirty ten.

1351
01:12:13,040 --> 01:12:14,760
Speaker 2: I got thirty percent, they got ten.

1352
01:12:15,200 --> 01:12:20,320
Speaker 1: All explain that to me?

1353
01:12:20,320 --> 01:12:23,840
Speaker 2: Meaning that so when we wrote the songs or Royal

1354
01:12:24,080 --> 01:12:26,639
Speaker 2: Royalty side and writing side, we just do a flat

1355
01:12:27,200 --> 01:12:29,880
Speaker 2: thirty thirty. I get thirty percent and then each other

1356
01:12:29,920 --> 01:12:30,920
Speaker 2: member gets ten percent.

1357
01:12:34,280 --> 01:12:36,600
Speaker 1: Okay, how'd you come up with thirty? How'd you come

1358
01:12:36,680 --> 01:12:37,400
Speaker 1: up with the numbers?

1359
01:12:37,800 --> 01:12:42,280
Speaker 2: Well, it just makes well because it's a nice round number. Typically,

1360
01:12:42,280 --> 01:12:44,519
Speaker 2: when you write lyrics, you know, they people are like, oh,

1361
01:12:44,560 --> 01:12:47,599
Speaker 2: fifty percent, and it just can't. That can't work in

1362
01:12:47,640 --> 01:12:50,240
Speaker 2: our in our world, you just can't. I can't take

1363
01:12:50,280 --> 01:12:50,960
Speaker 2: fifty percent.

1364
01:12:52,720 --> 01:12:55,520
Speaker 1: So you're writing No one else is writing lyrics?

1365
01:12:55,880 --> 01:13:01,400
Speaker 2: Uh no, no, no, and oh ok with the band songs.

1366
01:13:01,960 --> 01:13:06,640
Speaker 1: Okay, when you go to write a song, this is

1367
01:13:06,640 --> 01:13:09,760
Speaker 1: like Elton John time. What comes first? The lyrics are

1368
01:13:09,880 --> 01:13:10,439
Speaker 1: the music.

1369
01:13:12,600 --> 01:13:15,720
Speaker 2: It varies. Sometimes there's a phrase that makes sense, and

1370
01:13:15,760 --> 01:13:18,360
Speaker 2: then sometimes the music makes sense. You know what I mean.

1371
01:13:18,400 --> 01:13:21,040
Speaker 2: You just kind of build it from either way and

1372
01:13:21,160 --> 01:13:21,720
Speaker 2: go from there.

1373
01:13:22,960 --> 01:13:29,000
Speaker 1: Okay, so let's go back. We're in this narrative. Does

1374
01:13:29,040 --> 01:13:30,880
Speaker 1: the Letterman appearance happen.

1375
01:13:31,720 --> 01:13:35,800
Speaker 2: Funny enough, the Letterman appearance was a blessing and a

1376
01:13:35,880 --> 01:13:41,519
Speaker 2: curse because we that appearance happened January twenty fifteen. We've

1377
01:13:41,560 --> 01:13:46,360
Speaker 2: already toured a year on our debut record, okay, so

1378
01:13:46,400 --> 01:13:50,600
Speaker 2: we were already pray to the end. So it was

1379
01:13:50,720 --> 01:13:55,320
Speaker 2: January twenty fifteen, and then the Letterman thing happens, and

1380
01:13:55,360 --> 01:13:58,040
Speaker 2: we're like, oh my god, we got to get back

1381
01:13:58,080 --> 01:14:01,080
Speaker 2: out on the road, you know what I mean. And

1382
01:14:01,439 --> 01:14:03,080
Speaker 2: I mean it was amazing, it was, and I'm so

1383
01:14:03,120 --> 01:14:05,120
Speaker 2: grateful for but it was It's like we were kind

1384
01:14:05,120 --> 01:14:06,559
Speaker 2: of at the tail end, you know what I mean.

1385
01:14:06,600 --> 01:14:08,679
Speaker 2: Like we were like, hey, we had a great run.

1386
01:14:09,040 --> 01:14:11,479
Speaker 2: That was a lot of fun. We're selling you know,

1387
01:14:12,120 --> 01:14:14,559
Speaker 2: two to four hundred ticket, two hundred to four hundred

1388
01:14:14,560 --> 01:14:16,960
Speaker 2: tickets in a market, which is great, right, that's a

1389
01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:21,360
Speaker 2: great that's a fun place to be, you know. And

1390
01:14:21,439 --> 01:14:26,000
Speaker 2: then the Letterman thing happens and we're like, oh, okay,

1391
01:14:26,080 --> 01:14:28,679
Speaker 2: we got to keep going because you have to capitalize

1392
01:14:28,680 --> 01:14:28,840
Speaker 2: on them.

1393
01:14:30,880 --> 01:14:35,000
Speaker 1: Okay. I don't know who you are. All of a sudden,

1394
01:14:35,040 --> 01:14:38,760
Speaker 1: my email starts blowing up about this Letterman appearance. What

1395
01:14:38,840 --> 01:14:40,479
Speaker 1: was it like on your side of the fence.

1396
01:14:42,320 --> 01:14:44,680
Speaker 2: I mean, it was a TV appearance. I don't know

1397
01:14:44,720 --> 01:14:46,200
Speaker 2: what you know what I mean, way we do what

1398
01:14:46,240 --> 01:14:49,639
Speaker 2: we do, like, I don't. I the only thing because

1399
01:14:49,640 --> 01:14:53,360
Speaker 2: I didn't, I didn't watch it because it's it's it's

1400
01:14:53,439 --> 01:14:58,880
Speaker 2: kind of tough watching yourself perform on television. But what

1401
01:14:58,960 --> 01:15:02,040
Speaker 2: I remember about it is he does this amazing intro

1402
01:15:02,240 --> 01:15:04,160
Speaker 2: at the top of the before we play. It's an

1403
01:15:04,200 --> 01:15:07,960
Speaker 2: amazing intro, and I thought, you know, not doing much TV.

1404
01:15:08,120 --> 01:15:10,160
Speaker 2: I just thought, oh they cut that part out and

1405
01:15:10,200 --> 01:15:13,479
Speaker 2: then he just you know, and then it's the introduction, right,

1406
01:15:13,560 --> 01:15:16,000
Speaker 2: And then I heard the introduction was still in there,

1407
01:15:16,160 --> 01:15:17,840
Speaker 2: and then I was like, oh my god, Like that

1408
01:15:18,040 --> 01:15:21,040
Speaker 2: is a game changer, you know what I mean. I don't.

1409
01:15:21,320 --> 01:15:24,600
Speaker 2: For me, like, I don't think the performance was particularly amazing,

1410
01:15:25,160 --> 01:15:26,320
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, it was kind of what

1411
01:15:26,400 --> 01:15:29,080
Speaker 2: we do at that point. I mean, I actually think

1412
01:15:29,080 --> 01:15:31,400
Speaker 2: we do better now than we did that we did then.

1413
01:15:32,200 --> 01:15:34,439
Speaker 2: But I knew with that introduction being a part of it,

1414
01:15:34,479 --> 01:15:40,080
Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, this is this could do do something.

1415
01:15:42,160 --> 01:15:42,639
Speaker 2: And it did.

1416
01:15:43,880 --> 01:15:46,439
Speaker 1: Okay, it's a different era ten years ago. TV means

1417
01:15:46,479 --> 01:15:50,559
Speaker 1: something doesn't really mean anything today, right, you hear you're

1418
01:15:50,600 --> 01:15:54,400
Speaker 1: gonna be a Letterman before you even go on. What

1419
01:15:54,479 --> 01:15:57,280
Speaker 1: do you think? I don't know.

1420
01:15:57,640 --> 01:16:00,559
Speaker 2: I mean I'm happy, you know what I mean, Like

1421
01:16:00,600 --> 01:16:04,320
Speaker 2: I don't I mean, I'm thrilled that we're getting I mean,

1422
01:16:04,680 --> 01:16:05,080
Speaker 2: we put it.

1423
01:16:05,080 --> 01:16:08,719
Speaker 1: A different way. Anybody who's been in this world knows

1424
01:16:09,800 --> 01:16:13,080
Speaker 1: that your big break is not usually what you expected

1425
01:16:13,200 --> 01:16:15,680
Speaker 1: to be. You say, oh, this is gonna and then

1426
01:16:15,720 --> 01:16:18,759
Speaker 1: you do it, nothing happens, and then there are things

1427
01:16:19,400 --> 01:16:22,160
Speaker 1: you may not even want to do that turn into

1428
01:16:22,200 --> 01:16:24,680
Speaker 1: a big thing. But at the time, being on a

1429
01:16:24,760 --> 01:16:30,240
Speaker 1: Letterman was you know, a top slot. So were you thinking, well,

1430
01:16:30,320 --> 01:16:32,639
Speaker 1: you know that this could really turn into something.

1431
01:16:33,560 --> 01:16:36,320
Speaker 2: I know, I knew that it was important. I mean,

1432
01:16:36,320 --> 01:16:37,920
Speaker 2: don't get me wrong, Like I knew that it was

1433
01:16:37,960 --> 01:16:40,320
Speaker 2: an important thing, but I just, I mean, we were

1434
01:16:40,320 --> 01:16:42,120
Speaker 2: so afraid it was the end of that, you know,

1435
01:16:42,120 --> 01:16:44,080
Speaker 2: I mean the end of twenty fourteen. I'd just gotten

1436
01:16:44,160 --> 01:16:49,240
Speaker 2: married like a month before the Letterman performance, and I was,

1437
01:16:49,600 --> 01:16:51,439
Speaker 2: I mean, I was. It was just like it was

1438
01:16:51,479 --> 01:16:54,160
Speaker 2: just like going to another gig. It was like, you know,

1439
01:16:54,200 --> 01:16:57,240
Speaker 2: you knew it was important and you knew you had

1440
01:16:57,280 --> 01:17:00,200
Speaker 2: to do it, but it wasn't something that I thought, oh, well,

1441
01:17:00,560 --> 01:17:03,360
Speaker 2: this is going to change the game. I was honored.

1442
01:17:03,760 --> 01:17:05,960
Speaker 2: I always wanted to do Conan O'Brien, like that was

1443
01:17:06,000 --> 01:17:09,840
Speaker 2: my goal because I loved Conan O'Brien, which we ended

1444
01:17:09,880 --> 01:17:14,120
Speaker 2: up doing. And so Letterman, I mean I understood the

1445
01:17:14,160 --> 01:17:16,559
Speaker 2: history of it and all that, but I just it

1446
01:17:16,640 --> 01:17:18,599
Speaker 2: was I don't know, you know what I mean, Like

1447
01:17:18,680 --> 01:17:20,280
Speaker 2: it's one of those things like I didn't I didn't

1448
01:17:20,280 --> 01:17:21,800
Speaker 2: think it would have the impact it did for sure.

1449
01:17:21,800 --> 01:17:24,720
Speaker 2: I mean there's two things that we've done that we

1450
01:17:24,880 --> 01:17:27,680
Speaker 2: just rolled up and did, and that is that and

1451
01:17:27,680 --> 01:17:30,120
Speaker 2: a Tiny Desk are the two things that we have

1452
01:17:30,200 --> 01:17:33,679
Speaker 2: done that I hear about more than anything. And it's

1453
01:17:33,720 --> 01:17:36,439
Speaker 2: just funny thinking back to it, because like it wasn't

1454
01:17:36,479 --> 01:17:38,800
Speaker 2: like this big like we're about to we're about to

1455
01:17:38,800 --> 01:17:40,240
Speaker 2: do Letterman, you know what I mean, Or we're about

1456
01:17:40,240 --> 01:17:42,720
Speaker 2: to do Tiny Desk. It was like, oh, or we're

1457
01:17:42,720 --> 01:17:45,280
Speaker 2: here to play. We do the thing, like that's what

1458
01:17:45,320 --> 01:17:45,799
Speaker 2: we did.

1459
01:17:47,240 --> 01:17:49,320
Speaker 1: Okay, So going back to Letterman, you do it, you

1460
01:17:49,360 --> 01:17:52,280
Speaker 1: talk about the curse element that you have to capitalize

1461
01:17:52,280 --> 01:17:55,840
Speaker 1: on it. So how much did you work after Letterman for.

1462
01:17:55,760 --> 01:17:57,479
Speaker 2: The rest of the year. I mean, we we had to.

1463
01:17:57,560 --> 01:17:59,320
Speaker 2: It was hard to find time because you know, it's like, hey,

1464
01:17:59,360 --> 01:18:02,320
Speaker 2: you gotta make a new record, right, But it was

1465
01:18:02,320 --> 01:18:05,280
Speaker 2: hard to find time. I never forget we were, you know,

1466
01:18:05,640 --> 01:18:08,000
Speaker 2: trying to find some other producer or well, you know

1467
01:18:08,000 --> 01:18:10,320
Speaker 2: what I mean. And man, it was just like it

1468
01:18:10,360 --> 01:18:12,640
Speaker 2: was two days of something that we fit in a

1469
01:18:12,680 --> 01:18:14,599
Speaker 2: tour and it was just like, how can you even

1470
01:18:14,720 --> 01:18:17,680
Speaker 2: tell what's going on? So eventually you just have to

1471
01:18:18,160 --> 01:18:21,320
Speaker 2: learn the word no and uh, which is a hard

1472
01:18:21,479 --> 01:18:24,040
Speaker 2: thing to do in that moment. And so we had

1473
01:18:24,040 --> 01:18:27,120
Speaker 2: to carve out time. But yeah, I mean, basically because

1474
01:18:27,400 --> 01:18:29,479
Speaker 2: it was so impactful, we had to turn around and

1475
01:18:29,520 --> 01:18:32,960
Speaker 2: go back on tour and start keep playing shows. And

1476
01:18:32,960 --> 01:18:35,400
Speaker 2: we played and played and blade and then we finally

1477
01:18:35,400 --> 01:18:38,120
Speaker 2: found some time I think towards towards the winner of

1478
01:18:38,120 --> 01:18:40,759
Speaker 2: twenty twenty fifteen or twenty sixteen.

1479
01:18:41,120 --> 01:18:48,040
Speaker 1: Okay, a being this large, it's a dynamic enterprise. Certainly

1480
01:18:48,080 --> 01:18:50,120
Speaker 1: you've been doing it in excess of a decade at

1481
01:18:50,160 --> 01:18:55,320
Speaker 1: this point in time. Can you open for somebody or

1482
01:18:55,320 --> 01:18:57,559
Speaker 1: do you have to be the headline or how does

1483
01:18:57,600 --> 01:19:01,439
Speaker 1: it work? We can open, That's not what I mean.

1484
01:19:01,560 --> 01:19:05,200
Speaker 1: Of course you can open, but can someone follow you.

1485
01:19:06,400 --> 01:19:12,760
Speaker 2: I hope not. I hope not. I hope. I hope

1486
01:19:12,760 --> 01:19:15,360
Speaker 2: when we open up for people that they go, all right,

1487
01:19:15,400 --> 01:19:17,120
Speaker 2: don't have to bring my working boots today.

1488
01:19:18,840 --> 01:19:21,000
Speaker 1: So at this point in time, how many dates a

1489
01:19:21,080 --> 01:19:21,720
Speaker 1: year do you work?

1490
01:19:23,400 --> 01:19:26,639
Speaker 2: M I'd say we're still at one hundred and fifty

1491
01:19:26,720 --> 01:19:26,880
Speaker 2: or so.

1492
01:19:28,000 --> 01:19:30,040
Speaker 1: And of that one hundred and fifty, how many times

1493
01:19:30,040 --> 01:19:31,040
Speaker 1: are you the headliner?

1494
01:19:33,640 --> 01:19:39,080
Speaker 2: M I would say seventy to eighty percent.

1495
01:19:40,160 --> 01:19:46,280
Speaker 1: Okay, you go to a show. Every show is different,

1496
01:19:46,360 --> 01:19:50,560
Speaker 1: even if the set list is identical. Do you basically

1497
01:19:50,640 --> 01:19:54,479
Speaker 1: say I know what we do, like hit the stage

1498
01:19:54,520 --> 01:19:58,599
Speaker 1: and we do it or are you judging audience reaction

1499
01:19:59,200 --> 01:20:04,240
Speaker 1: and if they're not with you reach out and grab them.

1500
01:20:04,560 --> 01:20:07,880
Speaker 2: I mean to me, it's about entertaining the audience, right,

1501
01:20:10,800 --> 01:20:14,519
Speaker 2: I think one skill. You know, I'm not a bad singer,

1502
01:20:14,560 --> 01:20:16,240
Speaker 2: but I think one skill I do have and I

1503
01:20:16,280 --> 01:20:18,360
Speaker 2: definitely learned it in churches, how to read a crowd.

1504
01:20:19,000 --> 01:20:21,880
Speaker 2: And we have had moments where it's like this crowd

1505
01:20:21,880 --> 01:20:24,000
Speaker 2: ain't here and we got to figure out how to

1506
01:20:24,000 --> 01:20:25,920
Speaker 2: get them. So that's what we do. We get them,

1507
01:20:26,040 --> 01:20:28,360
Speaker 2: you know, we we either we change the set. I'll

1508
01:20:28,600 --> 01:20:32,120
Speaker 2: change the set mid mid show and we will. You know,

1509
01:20:32,160 --> 01:20:34,839
Speaker 2: we're you know, we're live musicians. There ain't no tracks,

1510
01:20:35,200 --> 01:20:37,000
Speaker 2: so we can do that. We can. It ain't a

1511
01:20:37,040 --> 01:20:38,639
Speaker 2: hard thing to be like, hey, we're gonna play something

1512
01:20:38,640 --> 01:20:42,200
Speaker 2: else different on this next you know, this next song

1513
01:20:42,240 --> 01:20:45,320
Speaker 2: to try and grab the audience. And it depends. I mean,

1514
01:20:45,800 --> 01:20:48,519
Speaker 2: early on, people didn't know who we were, so yeah,

1515
01:20:48,560 --> 01:20:51,880
Speaker 2: you're definitely like you gotta grab. I was my my

1516
01:20:51,880 --> 01:20:54,280
Speaker 2: philosophy early on is if someone came and saw us,

1517
01:20:54,560 --> 01:20:57,800
Speaker 2: you're either leaving or staying, and that's it. There ain't

1518
01:20:57,840 --> 01:21:00,439
Speaker 2: no I'm gonna You're gonna either be a part of this,

1519
01:21:00,560 --> 01:21:02,760
Speaker 2: You're getting out of here, and that's it. That's your

1520
01:21:02,800 --> 01:21:05,960
Speaker 2: only options. And uh, and that was the that was

1521
01:21:06,000 --> 01:21:08,360
Speaker 2: the thought and the theory. Then now you know, we're

1522
01:21:08,360 --> 01:21:11,559
Speaker 2: a little bit more well known, so it's you know,

1523
01:21:11,600 --> 01:21:13,519
Speaker 2: they kind of people know kind of what to expect,

1524
01:21:13,560 --> 01:21:15,160
Speaker 2: and you try to do something in the show that

1525
01:21:15,200 --> 01:21:18,400
Speaker 2: they don't expect, and you try to change the set.

1526
01:21:18,560 --> 01:21:20,840
Speaker 2: You know, we look at the top five stream songs

1527
01:21:20,880 --> 01:21:23,599
Speaker 2: on Spotify and we make sure we play those songs

1528
01:21:23,600 --> 01:21:27,040
Speaker 2: and then everything else is up for grabs, and so

1529
01:21:27,120 --> 01:21:29,240
Speaker 2: we try to make the show you know, we have

1530
01:21:29,320 --> 01:21:31,920
Speaker 2: people to see us twelve times and so we need

1531
01:21:31,960 --> 01:21:33,920
Speaker 2: to you know, change it up a little bit. But yeah,

1532
01:21:33,920 --> 01:21:36,680
Speaker 2: I still man, I still want the audience. I want

1533
01:21:37,560 --> 01:21:39,519
Speaker 2: it is a way better playing to an audience that

1534
01:21:39,600 --> 01:21:42,439
Speaker 2: you that you have had, that you've gotten to not

1535
01:21:43,439 --> 01:21:46,439
Speaker 2: and uh and I still I still want. I still

1536
01:21:46,439 --> 01:21:48,600
Speaker 2: treat it. I don't treat it much differently in that

1537
01:21:49,160 --> 01:21:51,000
Speaker 2: you win one person at a time. So if there's

1538
01:21:51,040 --> 01:21:53,040
Speaker 2: somebody in the front row that's not having a good time,

1539
01:21:53,400 --> 01:21:56,040
Speaker 2: you're either gonna stay or you're gonna leave. But I'm

1540
01:21:56,040 --> 01:21:57,559
Speaker 2: gonna pay attention, you know what I mean.

1541
01:21:57,880 --> 01:22:01,280
Speaker 1: A little bit more specific. When you try to win

1542
01:22:01,320 --> 01:22:04,000
Speaker 1: over people in the audience, other than changing the set list,

1543
01:22:04,360 --> 01:22:07,160
Speaker 1: what do you literally do to try to get them

1544
01:22:07,160 --> 01:22:07,840
Speaker 1: on board?

1545
01:22:08,160 --> 01:22:12,320
Speaker 2: I mean, I'll go go to them, get in the audience,

1546
01:22:12,640 --> 01:22:15,400
Speaker 2: go say hello, Go you know what I mean, Like

1547
01:22:16,160 --> 01:22:18,360
Speaker 2: get in there, get in their face a little bit,

1548
01:22:18,439 --> 01:22:20,320
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like engage with them, make

1549
01:22:20,360 --> 01:22:22,479
Speaker 2: sure that they know that, make sure that they know

1550
01:22:22,560 --> 01:22:26,040
Speaker 2: that you know, they exist, and you get I get

1551
01:22:26,080 --> 01:22:29,200
Speaker 2: within it, and then you you know, like there's certain

1552
01:22:29,200 --> 01:22:31,719
Speaker 2: moments now where we know, like there's a big note

1553
01:22:32,160 --> 01:22:35,280
Speaker 2: coming right that I'm gonna sing and I'll know then

1554
01:22:35,400 --> 01:22:37,840
Speaker 2: like okay, that either gets somewhere it doesn't, or do

1555
01:22:37,960 --> 01:22:41,120
Speaker 2: something kind of funny or goofy and it makes them laugh,

1556
01:22:41,320 --> 01:22:44,320
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Just whatever, that's I feel

1557
01:22:44,320 --> 01:22:46,880
Speaker 2: like that's the job, right, Like, if you can't do that,

1558
01:22:47,080 --> 01:22:49,840
Speaker 2: what the hell are you doing on stage? You know,

1559
01:22:50,000 --> 01:22:51,200
Speaker 2: doing the lead singer thing?

1560
01:22:58,439 --> 01:23:00,320
Speaker 1: And how do you get hooked up with? Ron Perry

1561
01:23:00,320 --> 01:23:01,560
Speaker 1: and Barry Weiss?

1562
01:23:01,840 --> 01:23:03,719
Speaker 2: They just you know, were fans of the first record

1563
01:23:04,000 --> 01:23:09,040
Speaker 2: and they they they reached out and signed us. They

1564
01:23:09,360 --> 01:23:11,920
Speaker 2: you know, Ron was ain't r for songs and got

1565
01:23:12,000 --> 01:23:14,200
Speaker 2: us on board with the publishing and it was a

1566
01:23:14,200 --> 01:23:15,240
Speaker 2: good relationship from there.

1567
01:23:16,520 --> 01:23:22,040
Speaker 1: Were they the only ones interested? No, so you're on

1568
01:23:22,200 --> 01:23:24,160
Speaker 1: Letterman all of a sudden the phone starts to ring

1569
01:23:24,200 --> 01:23:25,320
Speaker 1: to houst the cliche.

1570
01:23:25,600 --> 01:23:29,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, that that I think with half the city, and

1571
01:23:29,720 --> 01:23:32,360
Speaker 2: then the Letterman thing happened. Yeah, there was plenty of people,

1572
01:23:32,760 --> 01:23:34,240
Speaker 2: But I mean, to be fair, we were with songs.

1573
01:23:34,360 --> 01:23:36,479
Speaker 2: I this is what I remember. This is so funny.

1574
01:23:36,840 --> 01:23:38,439
Speaker 2: I was literally in New York and we had got

1575
01:23:38,439 --> 01:23:41,599
Speaker 2: we had gotten our songs. You would have been with songs,

1576
01:23:42,040 --> 01:23:44,759
Speaker 2: and we got paid our advance that's that fourth quarter

1577
01:23:44,880 --> 01:23:48,000
Speaker 2: of twenty fourteen. And I remember getting a tax bill

1578
01:23:48,360 --> 01:23:53,920
Speaker 2: while I was in New York before Letterman, so I

1579
01:23:54,040 --> 01:23:56,680
Speaker 2: was I could just tell you, my friend, it was not.

1580
01:23:56,920 --> 01:23:59,720
Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god. When I got that

1581
01:23:59,760 --> 01:24:01,760
Speaker 2: TAXI be and have a wife for like, hang on

1582
01:24:02,040 --> 01:24:04,040
Speaker 2: what now? You know you think about all the things

1583
01:24:04,040 --> 01:24:05,559
Speaker 2: you're going through with the money, and then you get

1584
01:24:05,560 --> 01:24:08,439
Speaker 2: that tax Ben You're like, no, no, a lot of

1585
01:24:08,479 --> 01:24:09,519
Speaker 2: that's going to taxes.

1586
01:24:10,439 --> 01:24:11,360
Speaker 1: Do you own a house?

1587
01:24:11,680 --> 01:24:13,719
Speaker 2: I do? I do? I mean I own a house.

1588
01:24:13,760 --> 01:24:18,519
Speaker 2: And that's why we were living in Alabama. Man, it's

1589
01:24:18,560 --> 01:24:21,320
Speaker 2: a lot more affordable. Uh and I sure do.

1590
01:24:22,360 --> 01:24:26,559
Speaker 1: Okay, what made you go with songs and records as

1591
01:24:26,560 --> 01:24:27,759
Speaker 1: opposed to anybody else?

1592
01:24:29,120 --> 01:24:30,720
Speaker 2: That's what they sold us. You know, we kind of

1593
01:24:30,760 --> 01:24:35,200
Speaker 2: thought in our minds like, you know, we had creative

1594
01:24:35,200 --> 01:24:39,960
Speaker 2: control whatever that means these days, you know, I've I've

1595
01:24:40,040 --> 01:24:42,320
Speaker 2: learned since that creative control is one of those things

1596
01:24:42,360 --> 01:24:43,760
Speaker 2: like yeah, you can have it and you can do

1597
01:24:43,800 --> 01:24:46,360
Speaker 2: what you want. But they got if they don't put

1598
01:24:46,360 --> 01:24:48,760
Speaker 2: money behind it, it don't matter, you know what I mean.

1599
01:24:50,920 --> 01:24:52,280
Speaker 2: I think we just had a good relationship. But I

1600
01:24:52,320 --> 01:24:54,240
Speaker 2: think I mean this day, like at the solo things

1601
01:24:54,280 --> 01:24:57,080
Speaker 2: with Barry. You know, Ron's moved on to Columbia, but

1602
01:24:57,120 --> 01:24:59,280
Speaker 2: like the solo things with Barry and he you know,

1603
01:25:00,439 --> 01:25:02,040
Speaker 2: he's we still have I think we still have a

1604
01:25:02,080 --> 01:25:03,000
Speaker 2: decent relationship.

1605
01:25:04,160 --> 01:25:07,519
Speaker 1: And so okay, these are two guys, very experienced. Yes,

1606
01:25:08,040 --> 01:25:11,599
Speaker 1: what degree did they give you input or did they

1607
01:25:11,640 --> 01:25:12,360
Speaker 1: leave you alone?

1608
01:25:13,320 --> 01:25:15,400
Speaker 2: I mean they they cared. I mean, there's no doubt

1609
01:25:15,400 --> 01:25:17,160
Speaker 2: about that. I mean, I think you know what I mean,

1610
01:25:17,280 --> 01:25:22,519
Speaker 2: like they they had their thoughts on things, but they

1611
01:25:23,760 --> 01:25:25,200
Speaker 2: I mean, we did what we wanted, you know what

1612
01:25:25,280 --> 01:25:28,000
Speaker 2: I mean. Like we would either go, yeah, that sounds

1613
01:25:28,000 --> 01:25:30,559
Speaker 2: great or absolutely not, and we wouldn't do it. And

1614
01:25:30,600 --> 01:25:34,200
Speaker 2: that's what we would do. And for the most part,

1615
01:25:34,320 --> 01:25:36,679
Speaker 2: it wasn't that bad, you know, I think I think

1616
01:25:36,680 --> 01:25:39,160
Speaker 2: there was, but this is this is my thing, and

1617
01:25:39,160 --> 01:25:41,519
Speaker 2: this is what I say. Like, were there times that

1618
01:25:41,600 --> 01:25:43,559
Speaker 2: I think they probably had, you know, a vision for

1619
01:25:43,600 --> 01:25:47,439
Speaker 2: the band that the band wasn't Yeah, of course, but

1620
01:25:47,680 --> 01:25:50,080
Speaker 2: I don't. Their goal was to make the band huge,

1621
01:25:50,160 --> 01:25:52,559
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. It wasn't. It wasn't to

1622
01:25:52,640 --> 01:25:54,040
Speaker 2: be like, oh, you know, I want to It's like

1623
01:25:54,080 --> 01:25:55,400
Speaker 2: they wanted it to be huge, and they had their

1624
01:25:55,400 --> 01:25:58,759
Speaker 2: idea what that is and and and it was probably

1625
01:25:58,760 --> 01:26:01,000
Speaker 2: a little bit different than the band thought to some degree.

1626
01:26:01,120 --> 01:26:04,200
Speaker 2: But I mean our third record was we met the

1627
01:26:04,240 --> 01:26:06,400
Speaker 2: producer through them, you know what I mean. So like,

1628
01:26:07,479 --> 01:26:10,400
Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't that relationship. I don't. I

1629
01:26:10,400 --> 01:26:13,160
Speaker 2: don't really regret that much at all, and still have

1630
01:26:13,240 --> 01:26:14,000
Speaker 2: it with Bear Okay.

1631
01:26:14,800 --> 01:26:18,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, eight members in the band, five were in the LLC.

1632
01:26:19,479 --> 01:26:22,640
Speaker 1: Everyone does not agree all the time. How do you

1633
01:26:22,720 --> 01:26:24,600
Speaker 1: decide on decisions?

1634
01:26:24,840 --> 01:26:26,599
Speaker 2: This is how we this is how we kind of work.

1635
01:26:27,520 --> 01:26:32,120
Speaker 2: I get to be president, okay, and then we got Congress, right,

1636
01:26:33,240 --> 01:26:37,880
Speaker 2: and sometimes Congress can maybe overrule, but they all understand it.

1637
01:26:37,920 --> 01:26:40,920
Speaker 2: If I don't, I'm not into it, it probably ain't

1638
01:26:40,920 --> 01:26:44,639
Speaker 2: gonna happen, uh, you know what I mean. So that's

1639
01:26:44,720 --> 01:26:48,519
Speaker 2: kind of how it works. I do my damnedest to

1640
01:26:48,640 --> 01:26:51,760
Speaker 2: make sure that they are heard and their input is

1641
01:26:51,800 --> 01:26:54,519
Speaker 2: considered one hundred percent, and it needs to be because

1642
01:26:54,520 --> 01:26:57,000
Speaker 2: sometime there's been moments where I thought something was the

1643
01:26:57,080 --> 01:26:59,519
Speaker 2: right idea and they said something. I'm like, well that's

1644
01:26:59,560 --> 01:27:03,040
Speaker 2: a really good point, you know what I mean. But

1645
01:27:03,200 --> 01:27:06,240
Speaker 2: ultimately small things they don't care. They're like, Paul, do

1646
01:27:06,320 --> 01:27:08,800
Speaker 2: your thing when it comes to big decisions like record

1647
01:27:08,880 --> 01:27:11,519
Speaker 2: labels and management and stuff like that, they are one

1648
01:27:11,600 --> 01:27:14,559
Speaker 2: hundred percent. They have input and they have say and

1649
01:27:14,600 --> 01:27:17,040
Speaker 2: that's kind of how we It's worked well that way.

1650
01:27:18,240 --> 01:27:21,080
Speaker 2: I mean, obviously we're still here, right and we have

1651
01:27:21,120 --> 01:27:24,040
Speaker 2: a system in place that has worked. But they kind

1652
01:27:24,040 --> 01:27:26,560
Speaker 2: of for the most part, they kind of leave me,

1653
01:27:26,760 --> 01:27:28,760
Speaker 2: you know, they'll leave me to it. And I enjoy it.

1654
01:27:28,880 --> 01:27:32,120
Speaker 2: I enjoy the business aspect of this, I really do.

1655
01:27:32,200 --> 01:27:34,960
Speaker 2: I think it's a fact, is an incredibly fascinating business.

1656
01:27:35,320 --> 01:27:38,720
Speaker 2: It is an ever changing business. And and so I'm

1657
01:27:38,720 --> 01:27:41,160
Speaker 2: able to kind of compartmentalize the business side and the

1658
01:27:41,200 --> 01:27:44,639
Speaker 2: creative side. I don't I don't let them bleed, because

1659
01:27:44,680 --> 01:27:46,320
Speaker 2: the moment you start doing that's the moment you start

1660
01:27:46,320 --> 01:27:47,000
Speaker 2: getting in trouble.

1661
01:27:48,840 --> 01:27:51,880
Speaker 1: How did it become same Pawn, the Broken Bones, the

1662
01:27:52,000 --> 01:27:53,960
Speaker 1: name and how many other names before that?

1663
01:27:54,640 --> 01:27:57,040
Speaker 2: Well, Jesse the bass player came up with a name

1664
01:27:57,080 --> 01:27:59,920
Speaker 2: because of this, you know. He he wanted like Martha

1665
01:28:00,120 --> 01:28:01,960
Speaker 2: Reeves and the Vandellas, you know what I mean, he

1666
01:28:02,000 --> 01:28:05,320
Speaker 2: want and uh, you know, and I was like whatever,

1667
01:28:05,760 --> 01:28:08,240
Speaker 2: and he was, you know, the Saint Paul, Saint Paul

1668
01:28:08,320 --> 01:28:11,800
Speaker 2: thing about the church background and all that kind of stuff,

1669
01:28:11,800 --> 01:28:15,120
Speaker 2: and then the Broken Bones. I mean, the first song

1670
01:28:15,160 --> 01:28:17,360
Speaker 2: we wrote together for this was Broken Bones, and Pocket

1671
01:28:17,439 --> 01:28:18,960
Speaker 2: Change was is a song on the first record and

1672
01:28:19,080 --> 01:28:23,000
Speaker 2: the EP, and it it kind of made sense. And

1673
01:28:23,520 --> 01:28:25,120
Speaker 2: I mean it was one of those that was it

1674
01:28:25,479 --> 01:28:27,400
Speaker 2: and it was one of those names that stayed. We

1675
01:28:27,520 --> 01:28:30,639
Speaker 2: never thought anything about it. We just oh, we'll change

1676
01:28:30,640 --> 01:28:35,040
Speaker 2: the name later, and then later never came. And that's

1677
01:28:35,080 --> 01:28:35,800
Speaker 2: what we are now.

1678
01:28:37,200 --> 01:28:43,320
Speaker 1: Okay, you've traveled the world. You came to popular culture late,

1679
01:28:43,720 --> 01:28:46,880
Speaker 1: but you must have had pinched me moments meeting certain people.

1680
01:28:47,400 --> 01:28:48,439
Speaker 1: Can you tell me about that?

1681
01:28:49,439 --> 01:28:52,639
Speaker 2: Oh? Absolutely. I mean we've gotten to meet Elton John.

1682
01:28:54,720 --> 01:28:56,400
Speaker 2: This is the name drop part of that. This is

1683
01:28:56,439 --> 01:28:59,760
Speaker 2: the name drop part right. Yeah, you know we've gotten

1684
01:28:59,720 --> 01:29:03,679
Speaker 2: to meet Elton John. We've gotten to meet the Rolling Stones,

1685
01:29:03,720 --> 01:29:09,080
Speaker 2: we opened up for them a few times. I mean,

1686
01:29:09,200 --> 01:29:13,840
Speaker 2: we've gotten to meet Herbie Hancock, someone that we really,

1687
01:29:13,880 --> 01:29:16,800
Speaker 2: really really admire. We've gotten to meet all sorts of

1688
01:29:16,800 --> 01:29:21,799
Speaker 2: folks and and honestly, you know, I I look at someone.

1689
01:29:22,000 --> 01:29:23,800
Speaker 2: We got to we got to do something. If there's

1690
01:29:23,840 --> 01:29:27,280
Speaker 2: a local or it's not local, it's the egal Justice Initiative,

1691
01:29:27,280 --> 01:29:29,080
Speaker 2: which is in Montgomery, Alabama. We got to meet a

1692
01:29:29,080 --> 01:29:31,519
Speaker 2: guy named Brian Stevenson, who I think is one of

1693
01:29:31,520 --> 01:29:34,280
Speaker 2: the one of my heroes, you know, just heroes people

1694
01:29:34,320 --> 01:29:36,240
Speaker 2: like that. Those are the people more that I admire.

1695
01:29:36,320 --> 01:29:38,680
Speaker 2: Musicians are great. I love meet, Don't get me wrong, Like,

1696
01:29:39,240 --> 01:29:40,840
Speaker 2: there ain't a lot of people that have met Elton

1697
01:29:40,880 --> 01:29:42,800
Speaker 2: John and the Rolling Stalls. You know, I get that,

1698
01:29:42,880 --> 01:29:45,519
Speaker 2: and I understand that. But for me, it's it's more

1699
01:29:45,560 --> 01:29:48,040
Speaker 2: people that that kind of dedicate their life life to

1700
01:29:48,080 --> 01:29:50,920
Speaker 2: service that I really do admire. But yeah, I've gotten

1701
01:29:50,880 --> 01:29:52,320
Speaker 2: to meet all sorts of people. Man, I've gotten to

1702
01:29:52,320 --> 01:29:54,640
Speaker 2: meet all sorts of people that I never thought in

1703
01:29:54,680 --> 01:29:56,960
Speaker 2: a thousand years that I would meet.

1704
01:29:57,000 --> 01:30:01,280
Speaker 1: And Okay, Elton is a real MU music fan, and

1705
01:30:01,400 --> 01:30:03,639
Speaker 1: he's gonna know who you are. He will have listened

1706
01:30:03,680 --> 01:30:06,920
Speaker 1: to your music, you know. Well, let's put it this way.

1707
01:30:06,960 --> 01:30:10,880
Speaker 1: I know the promoters of the Stones, okay, and the

1708
01:30:10,920 --> 01:30:14,479
Speaker 1: Stone I know people. Let's put it this way. Did

1709
01:30:14,520 --> 01:30:16,519
Speaker 1: you meet Mick and Keith and did they know who

1710
01:30:16,520 --> 01:30:16,920
Speaker 1: you were?

1711
01:30:17,479 --> 01:30:17,679
Speaker 2: Yes?

1712
01:30:18,920 --> 01:30:22,000
Speaker 1: Yes, that must have felt that must have made like wow,

1713
01:30:22,720 --> 01:30:22,880
Speaker 1: Well I.

1714
01:30:22,840 --> 01:30:25,160
Speaker 2: Didn't grow up with the Rolling Stones, so I was

1715
01:30:25,200 --> 01:30:27,320
Speaker 2: like cool. Now, let me tell you this. The rest

1716
01:30:27,360 --> 01:30:29,880
Speaker 2: of the guys in the band were shitting their pants.

1717
01:30:30,320 --> 01:30:34,479
Speaker 2: I mean they they they were like, oh my good,

1718
01:30:34,560 --> 01:30:36,439
Speaker 2: like they were nervous. I was just kind of like,

1719
01:30:37,040 --> 01:30:38,240
Speaker 2: I mean it was I knew it was cool, and

1720
01:30:38,280 --> 01:30:40,200
Speaker 2: I'm not trying to downplay it. I'm really not. But

1721
01:30:40,240 --> 01:30:42,360
Speaker 2: I didn't grow up with them, you know what I mean.

1722
01:30:42,400 --> 01:30:46,960
Speaker 2: I didn't grow up with them. So Keith uh was

1723
01:30:47,000 --> 01:30:50,000
Speaker 2: a big fan of was. I had an interview with

1724
01:30:50,040 --> 01:30:52,680
Speaker 2: the Rolling Stones writer that was like, Hey, I have

1725
01:30:52,760 --> 01:30:55,599
Speaker 2: asked Keith for many years what his favorite band, new

1726
01:30:55,680 --> 01:30:57,240
Speaker 2: up and coming band is, and he never gives me

1727
01:30:57,280 --> 01:31:01,200
Speaker 2: an answer. And he said, y'all's name the time, and

1728
01:31:01,240 --> 01:31:03,519
Speaker 2: he's like, so I had to interview you to see

1729
01:31:03,720 --> 01:31:06,439
Speaker 2: what the hell is this about? And I was just

1730
01:31:06,479 --> 01:31:08,360
Speaker 2: like cool, I mean, you know, but you know Kisa

1731
01:31:08,400 --> 01:31:11,080
Speaker 2: Old he loves Otis Redding and you know, he's got

1732
01:31:11,120 --> 01:31:12,920
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like he loves that stuff.

1733
01:31:12,960 --> 01:31:17,000
Speaker 2: And so they were super nice and I got to

1734
01:31:17,000 --> 01:31:20,120
Speaker 2: hang out with them a little bit and and yeah,

1735
01:31:20,120 --> 01:31:21,920
Speaker 2: it was it was a pretty amazing experience.

1736
01:31:22,479 --> 01:31:25,240
Speaker 1: Okay, see you make this leads record. You're working with

1737
01:31:25,280 --> 01:31:29,320
Speaker 1: thirty Tigers, which is more of a marketing enterprise. What's

1738
01:31:29,360 --> 01:31:30,679
Speaker 1: the budget for this record?

1739
01:31:31,880 --> 01:31:38,120
Speaker 2: What is the budget? I mean it's it's six digits,

1740
01:31:38,240 --> 01:31:40,360
Speaker 2: you know, it's mid six digits.

1741
01:31:41,320 --> 01:31:42,400
Speaker 1: And it's all your money.

1742
01:31:43,080 --> 01:31:47,120
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well, I mean yeah, so you know how

1743
01:31:47,120 --> 01:31:50,240
Speaker 2: that works? Like right, you know, like yes, sort of?

1744
01:31:52,680 --> 01:31:54,479
Speaker 1: Well did you have to save up the money?

1745
01:31:54,560 --> 01:31:56,240
Speaker 2: No, we did not have to save up the money. No,

1746
01:31:56,320 --> 01:31:58,120
Speaker 2: we got it. We got it from we got it

1747
01:31:58,160 --> 01:31:58,920
Speaker 2: from thirty tigers.

1748
01:32:00,560 --> 01:32:04,400
Speaker 1: Okay, so let's go back to what you were saying,

1749
01:32:04,479 --> 01:32:08,759
Speaker 1: being with you still have a solo deal? Does Barry

1750
01:32:08,800 --> 01:32:10,440
Speaker 1: expect you to make a record.

1751
01:32:10,920 --> 01:32:13,320
Speaker 2: We're working on? I mean, we're working. They're not. They

1752
01:32:13,479 --> 01:32:17,400
Speaker 2: they are. They're patient, man, They're patient, you know what

1753
01:32:17,439 --> 01:32:19,479
Speaker 2: I mean. Like they they're just like they want the

1754
01:32:19,560 --> 01:32:20,519
Speaker 2: right song, right thing.

1755
01:32:20,880 --> 01:32:23,120
Speaker 1: What's going to be different about that as opposed to

1756
01:32:23,160 --> 01:32:24,519
Speaker 1: a band record?

1757
01:32:24,920 --> 01:32:27,479
Speaker 2: I mean, it's not within the band enterprise, you know

1758
01:32:27,479 --> 01:32:31,400
Speaker 2: what I mean, Like, it's not it's working with another

1759
01:32:31,439 --> 01:32:35,240
Speaker 2: producer or you know, maybe maybe a third in the room,

1760
01:32:35,439 --> 01:32:38,200
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Like whatever, whatever it might be,

1761
01:32:38,280 --> 01:32:40,600
Speaker 2: I don't I don't. I think that's the problem with

1762
01:32:40,640 --> 01:32:43,320
Speaker 2: that project in general is that I'm not really sure.

1763
01:32:43,560 --> 01:32:47,080
Speaker 2: But they're they're really patient, which I'm grateful for, you

1764
01:32:47,160 --> 01:32:48,680
Speaker 2: know what I mean, Like they're not pressing me like hey,

1765
01:32:48,720 --> 01:32:50,200
Speaker 2: we gotta we gotta get you know what I mean.

1766
01:32:50,240 --> 01:32:52,559
Speaker 2: Like something will pop up and I'll be like, yeah,

1767
01:32:52,600 --> 01:32:54,479
Speaker 2: hey that sounds you know, if I like the song,

1768
01:32:54,560 --> 01:32:57,200
Speaker 2: if I like the producer or a song or whatever

1769
01:32:57,240 --> 01:32:59,080
Speaker 2: it might be, I'll be like, yeah, let's let's give

1770
01:32:59,120 --> 01:33:00,639
Speaker 2: it a try. See if I like getting. If I don't,

1771
01:33:00,680 --> 01:33:03,120
Speaker 2: then we go from there. But they're not They're not

1772
01:33:03,160 --> 01:33:03,759
Speaker 2: in any hurry.

1773
01:33:03,960 --> 01:33:07,040
Speaker 1: Okay, So tell me again how you meet Egg and

1774
01:33:07,080 --> 01:33:08,280
Speaker 1: how that proceeds.

1775
01:33:08,840 --> 01:33:15,800
Speaker 2: So I was with it was working on the solo,

1776
01:33:15,920 --> 01:33:19,920
Speaker 2: this working solo stuff, and he they flied me out

1777
01:33:19,920 --> 01:33:22,240
Speaker 2: to London and I work with a few people and

1778
01:33:22,320 --> 01:33:24,280
Speaker 2: it was it was kind of a disaster trip in

1779
01:33:24,280 --> 01:33:27,720
Speaker 2: a lot of ways. But the last day I work

1780
01:33:27,800 --> 01:33:31,160
Speaker 2: with Egg and we write this song and it's it's

1781
01:33:31,200 --> 01:33:34,120
Speaker 2: not on the record, but it was a great song.

1782
01:33:34,520 --> 01:33:36,560
Speaker 2: And then and we were just like oh, and I

1783
01:33:36,560 --> 01:33:39,800
Speaker 2: think Barry and Everybody's like ooh, that song, that's it,

1784
01:33:39,840 --> 01:33:41,960
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like wow, And so I

1785
01:33:42,000 --> 01:33:44,400
Speaker 2: go back over there and then I think, what kind

1786
01:33:44,400 --> 01:33:46,439
Speaker 2: of happens we write together. We write a lot of

1787
01:33:46,439 --> 01:33:51,000
Speaker 2: stuff together. It kind of I think with Barry and them,

1788
01:33:51,280 --> 01:33:53,559
Speaker 2: they kind of go okay, like this stuff's good, but

1789
01:33:53,800 --> 01:33:55,880
Speaker 2: you know, I don't think it really got them going.

1790
01:33:56,040 --> 01:33:58,760
Speaker 2: So we're like, okay, we'll is whatever right, you know,

1791
01:33:58,960 --> 01:34:03,479
Speaker 2: like whatever, just kind of sitting in it. Then some

1792
01:34:03,520 --> 01:34:07,439
Speaker 2: of the guys in the band here the songs, and

1793
01:34:07,479 --> 01:34:10,120
Speaker 2: they go what the hell is going on here? Like

1794
01:34:10,160 --> 01:34:13,280
Speaker 2: why are we not? You know? And I was like, well,

1795
01:34:13,320 --> 01:34:17,720
Speaker 2: you know, it's just where it goes, which you know

1796
01:34:17,800 --> 01:34:20,040
Speaker 2: is definitely frustrated in there, you know what I mean.

1797
01:34:20,040 --> 01:34:24,160
Speaker 2: But it's like, hey, what do you do? So the band?

1798
01:34:24,160 --> 01:34:26,919
Speaker 2: Here is it? We have? We started having a discussion.

1799
01:34:26,960 --> 01:34:29,120
Speaker 2: We talked to records like, hey, is it okay if

1800
01:34:29,200 --> 01:34:31,280
Speaker 2: we get a song or two of these you know

1801
01:34:31,320 --> 01:34:35,559
Speaker 2: what I mean? Like, which they were fine with. And

1802
01:34:35,600 --> 01:34:39,240
Speaker 2: then then uh then it then it turned into the

1803
01:34:39,240 --> 01:34:41,880
Speaker 2: band gets together rights. Then we're going, who's producing this record?

1804
01:34:42,760 --> 01:34:45,559
Speaker 2: And Egg hadn't produced the band record since the nineties.

1805
01:34:46,920 --> 01:34:50,320
Speaker 2: Oh it was like you know what I mean, like

1806
01:34:50,400 --> 01:34:53,960
Speaker 2: he he did doesn't leave London, he just doesn't. And

1807
01:34:54,000 --> 01:34:56,240
Speaker 2: so we I was like, oh and we had back.

1808
01:34:56,360 --> 01:34:58,760
Speaker 2: We were already talking about like backup. But I was like, hey,

1809
01:34:59,760 --> 01:35:01,920
Speaker 2: you know, everyone's like, well, let's just see if he's

1810
01:35:01,920 --> 01:35:05,080
Speaker 2: interested in producing. He's made these cool, cool, good sounding demos.

1811
01:35:05,080 --> 01:35:07,439
Speaker 2: So we were like maybe. And I was like, hey,

1812
01:35:07,800 --> 01:35:10,559
Speaker 2: all right, I want we want you to produce this

1813
01:35:10,640 --> 01:35:14,640
Speaker 2: record band songs and a couple of me and him songs.

1814
01:35:15,320 --> 01:35:18,160
Speaker 2: Would you be willing to come to Alabama to Fame

1815
01:35:18,240 --> 01:35:26,360
Speaker 2: studios and record and produce? And he was He was

1816
01:35:26,400 --> 01:35:28,559
Speaker 2: like that sounds like a great idea. I just have

1817
01:35:28,640 --> 01:35:32,040
Speaker 2: to figure out who's gonna walk my dog? And I

1818
01:35:32,120 --> 01:35:35,639
Speaker 2: was like what, and that's that's And once he figured

1819
01:35:35,640 --> 01:35:38,360
Speaker 2: that out, he he said yes, and he came over

1820
01:35:38,720 --> 01:35:40,480
Speaker 2: and it was an amazing experience.

1821
01:35:40,760 --> 01:35:43,320
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back. Yeah, how those songs you wrote

1822
01:35:43,360 --> 01:35:47,919
Speaker 1: with egg? When you start writing songs with the band,

1823
01:35:47,680 --> 01:35:49,360
Speaker 1: how do you do that? What does that look like?

1824
01:35:50,960 --> 01:35:52,680
Speaker 2: We just we were we were we There was a

1825
01:35:52,680 --> 01:35:55,439
Speaker 2: studio up in in uh in muscle shows that we

1826
01:35:55,520 --> 01:35:57,640
Speaker 2: could did. We have a really great rate on We

1827
01:35:57,720 --> 01:36:00,640
Speaker 2: know the the engineer that works there, and we go.

1828
01:36:01,439 --> 01:36:03,960
Speaker 2: It's funny. Birmingham used to be the place where we

1829
01:36:04,000 --> 01:36:06,040
Speaker 2: could all meet and not have to pay for hotels.

1830
01:36:06,600 --> 01:36:08,720
Speaker 2: But Now Muscle Sholes is because we have a few

1831
01:36:08,760 --> 01:36:10,839
Speaker 2: people that live there and we can stay at their houses.

1832
01:36:10,880 --> 01:36:15,280
Speaker 2: So we stay up there basically for free, and we

1833
01:36:15,439 --> 01:36:17,799
Speaker 2: just rent the studio for not it's not it's nothing.

1834
01:36:18,320 --> 01:36:19,640
Speaker 2: And we just sit in the room and write and

1835
01:36:19,680 --> 01:36:21,840
Speaker 2: we can record this great because we can record the

1836
01:36:21,880 --> 01:36:27,000
Speaker 2: demos and it's a really cheap rate and it's and

1837
01:36:27,000 --> 01:36:29,519
Speaker 2: we have an engineer there, and so we just sit

1838
01:36:29,560 --> 01:36:32,599
Speaker 2: in the room and write and we just see what happens.

1839
01:36:32,920 --> 01:36:41,439
Speaker 1: Okay, Sheffield, Alabama, Muscle Shoals, Florence legendary place. Is there

1840
01:36:41,520 --> 01:36:45,320
Speaker 1: really anything there, anything special? Or just the fact that

1841
01:36:45,360 --> 01:36:47,479
Speaker 1: the swampers just happen to be there?

1842
01:36:49,160 --> 01:36:51,200
Speaker 2: Now, why would you ask a question like that. Of course,

1843
01:36:51,200 --> 01:36:53,280
Speaker 2: it's all in the water. You just take a dip

1844
01:36:53,320 --> 01:36:54,920
Speaker 2: of the water and you drink it and everyone can

1845
01:36:54,920 --> 01:37:03,000
Speaker 2: play amazing music. That's what happens. Uh That. No, I

1846
01:37:03,040 --> 01:37:05,720
Speaker 2: think I think truly what it is is you know

1847
01:37:05,840 --> 01:37:10,360
Speaker 2: that especially was a moment in time, right. But I

1848
01:37:10,360 --> 01:37:13,680
Speaker 2: also think here's the thing about muscle that area and

1849
01:37:13,720 --> 01:37:18,439
Speaker 2: people And I know I get it, people are playing

1850
01:37:18,479 --> 01:37:21,160
Speaker 2: in studios less and less, you know, doing home stuff

1851
01:37:21,160 --> 01:37:24,800
Speaker 2: and stuff like that. But you have world class studios

1852
01:37:24,840 --> 01:37:27,080
Speaker 2: that are still up and running and are maintained for

1853
01:37:27,120 --> 01:37:29,760
Speaker 2: the most part now because of grants and all sorts

1854
01:37:29,800 --> 01:37:33,920
Speaker 2: of stuff. And they're fairly inexpensive compared to a Nashville

1855
01:37:34,680 --> 01:37:38,519
Speaker 2: or LA or places like that. So it economically, it

1856
01:37:38,640 --> 01:37:41,519
Speaker 2: just makes way more sense. And the other thing, there

1857
01:37:41,520 --> 01:37:44,439
Speaker 2: ain't as many distractions up there as there is in

1858
01:37:44,520 --> 01:37:47,519
Speaker 2: Nashville or LA. There ain't no ain't nobody gonna have

1859
01:37:47,560 --> 01:37:50,240
Speaker 2: a meeting in muscle Shoals. Ain't nobody gonna have to

1860
01:37:50,240 --> 01:37:53,400
Speaker 2: go talk to the Spotify people in muscle Shoals, do

1861
01:37:53,439 --> 01:37:55,559
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? And so you have the

1862
01:37:55,640 --> 01:37:59,240
Speaker 2: ability to just sit and play. I mean, that's for us.

1863
01:37:59,280 --> 01:38:01,080
Speaker 2: It makes sense for us, Like we don't go to

1864
01:38:01,160 --> 01:38:03,519
Speaker 2: Nashville to do that. We don't go down you know

1865
01:38:03,560 --> 01:38:05,360
Speaker 2: what I mean, Like we don't go to Birmingham now

1866
01:38:05,600 --> 01:38:08,479
Speaker 2: because it just makes way more economic sense to go

1867
01:38:08,560 --> 01:38:11,200
Speaker 2: up to muscle shows and for what especially for what

1868
01:38:11,240 --> 01:38:13,479
Speaker 2: we do. And there's people there that work, you know

1869
01:38:13,520 --> 01:38:17,519
Speaker 2: what I mean. Like there there is still you do feel,

1870
01:38:18,040 --> 01:38:21,040
Speaker 2: especially being from here, and it's a region, it's regional, right,

1871
01:38:21,479 --> 01:38:26,479
Speaker 2: being from here, there is a you do feel like

1872
01:38:26,520 --> 01:38:28,760
Speaker 2: that there's people walk in the street, you know, like

1873
01:38:28,840 --> 01:38:32,000
Speaker 2: Davidhood and all Spooner Old and all these guys who

1874
01:38:32,040 --> 01:38:33,639
Speaker 2: play down you know, they used to do a gig

1875
01:38:33,680 --> 01:38:35,880
Speaker 2: at the you know, on a Friday night, who've played

1876
01:38:35,880 --> 01:38:38,320
Speaker 2: on records that you could never even dream about playing on,

1877
01:38:39,040 --> 01:38:41,400
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. And there is that legacy,

1878
01:38:41,400 --> 01:38:42,880
Speaker 2: and some of the guys that grew up there like

1879
01:38:42,920 --> 01:38:46,760
Speaker 2: just what you grow up around, and so there is

1880
01:38:47,920 --> 01:38:52,439
Speaker 2: there is a maybe a legacy to uphall uphold that

1881
01:38:52,560 --> 01:38:54,800
Speaker 2: you feel that obligation a little bit, you know, not

1882
01:38:54,880 --> 01:38:57,240
Speaker 2: that I don't necessarily feel like we're a part of

1883
01:38:57,280 --> 01:39:01,240
Speaker 2: that or anything, a very small part maybe, but that

1884
01:39:01,320 --> 01:39:03,040
Speaker 2: that is that is real, you know what I mean.

1885
01:39:03,040 --> 01:39:05,840
Speaker 2: But as far as like I mean, how many people

1886
01:39:05,880 --> 01:39:08,679
Speaker 2: just sitting in a room, I mean, it's a special

1887
01:39:08,720 --> 01:39:11,000
Speaker 2: moment in time and just playing and and you have

1888
01:39:11,040 --> 01:39:13,160
Speaker 2: to have talent, of course, but there's yeah, to me,

1889
01:39:13,280 --> 01:39:16,759
Speaker 2: and especially with our band, it's about chemistry and that

1890
01:39:16,760 --> 01:39:18,880
Speaker 2: that's hard to come by, you know, And I don't

1891
01:39:18,920 --> 01:39:20,599
Speaker 2: think a lot of people do it as much anymore.

1892
01:39:28,320 --> 01:39:33,360
Speaker 1: Okay, recall had theme, everybody played it fame and then

1893
01:39:33,960 --> 01:39:37,160
Speaker 1: a bunch of guys went over and created Muscle Shoal

1894
01:39:37,320 --> 01:39:41,080
Speaker 1: Sound Studios. How'd you end up with? Theme? Does Muscle

1895
01:39:41,160 --> 01:39:43,759
Speaker 1: Shoal Sound Studios really exist anymore?

1896
01:39:44,160 --> 01:39:48,800
Speaker 2: It does? It's it is muscle show sound, like I

1897
01:39:48,920 --> 01:39:51,439
Speaker 2: want to say, is it doctor dre or somebody put

1898
01:39:51,479 --> 01:39:54,560
Speaker 2: a lot of money into it and it's it's revamped.

1899
01:39:54,560 --> 01:39:58,920
Speaker 2: It's it is more museine Zen MUSEUMI I guess, more

1900
01:39:59,400 --> 01:40:01,720
Speaker 2: more of a music zim type place. But you can

1901
01:40:01,800 --> 01:40:04,120
Speaker 2: you can record in there. I mean they're still they

1902
01:40:04,160 --> 01:40:06,320
Speaker 2: have an engineer that works there, Like there's you can

1903
01:40:06,360 --> 01:40:10,599
Speaker 2: record it. Muscle shows Sound and Fame I know, has

1904
01:40:10,640 --> 01:40:13,040
Speaker 2: gone through a lot of work to get to where

1905
01:40:13,080 --> 01:40:16,479
Speaker 2: they When we first started, it wasn't bad to record there.

1906
01:40:16,520 --> 01:40:18,240
Speaker 2: It's just like there's there was kind of a lot

1907
01:40:18,240 --> 01:40:20,160
Speaker 2: of ghost in the machine, you know what I mean,

1908
01:40:20,200 --> 01:40:23,120
Speaker 2: where you're like you hit the hit hit a button

1909
01:40:23,160 --> 01:40:25,880
Speaker 2: and you you know what I mean, that kind of thing.

1910
01:40:26,120 --> 01:40:28,200
Speaker 2: But they've really done an amazing job of making that

1911
01:40:28,240 --> 01:40:31,839
Speaker 2: place a great place to record now for modern times.

1912
01:40:33,560 --> 01:40:35,320
Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean there's still there's still you can

1913
01:40:35,360 --> 01:40:37,759
Speaker 2: still do it the old What is funny though about

1914
01:40:37,800 --> 01:40:39,880
Speaker 2: Fame and this is like I said, I get it.

1915
01:40:40,040 --> 01:40:41,760
Speaker 2: I know it's it's a point of revenue for them.

1916
01:40:42,120 --> 01:40:44,600
Speaker 2: The only concession you have to make is they do

1917
01:40:44,720 --> 01:40:50,519
Speaker 2: tours every day at the studio, so you have you

1918
01:40:50,600 --> 01:40:53,160
Speaker 2: have like a uh like I think it was like

1919
01:40:53,400 --> 01:40:55,000
Speaker 2: they were really good about it, but you there was

1920
01:40:55,080 --> 01:40:58,360
Speaker 2: there was usually about a twenty minute part of the

1921
01:40:58,479 --> 01:41:01,360
Speaker 2: day where they were gonna come to the studio you're recording,

1922
01:41:01,479 --> 01:41:03,800
Speaker 2: so you had to stop recording and we'd hide in

1923
01:41:03,880 --> 01:41:06,599
Speaker 2: the in the desk, you know, in the in the

1924
01:41:06,600 --> 01:41:07,680
Speaker 2: control room.

1925
01:41:08,000 --> 01:41:10,479
Speaker 1: That's funny, Okay. So how much time did it take

1926
01:41:10,520 --> 01:41:11,519
Speaker 1: to record the record?

1927
01:41:12,240 --> 01:41:17,559
Speaker 2: Took a week a week, that is fast. We did well.

1928
01:41:17,680 --> 01:41:20,080
Speaker 2: I say that I don't want to I don't want

1929
01:41:20,080 --> 01:41:22,840
Speaker 2: to miss misspeak. We did a week of tracking with

1930
01:41:22,960 --> 01:41:26,920
Speaker 2: the band and me singing roughs, and then did another

1931
01:41:27,960 --> 01:41:31,800
Speaker 2: couple days of me singing, and then you know, you

1932
01:41:31,880 --> 01:41:36,200
Speaker 2: go through your whole process of you know, making the

1933
01:41:36,280 --> 01:41:37,840
Speaker 2: sounds right and all that jazz.

1934
01:41:37,880 --> 01:41:41,280
Speaker 1: Okay, did egg do any pre production before you went

1935
01:41:41,320 --> 01:41:41,880
Speaker 1: in the studio?

1936
01:41:43,280 --> 01:41:44,960
Speaker 2: I mean he brought over I'll tell you this man,

1937
01:41:45,000 --> 01:41:48,880
Speaker 2: he brought over some damn expensive mics. I know that. Uh,

1938
01:41:48,960 --> 01:41:50,479
Speaker 2: he brought him in and brought him in in a

1939
01:41:50,520 --> 01:41:52,680
Speaker 2: duffel Back because he didn't want to check him in,

1940
01:41:52,760 --> 01:41:54,800
Speaker 2: so he I was like, you carried a duffel Back

1941
01:41:55,200 --> 01:41:58,440
Speaker 2: with a sixty thousand dollars MiCT and on the airline,

1942
01:41:58,560 --> 01:42:01,840
Speaker 2: you crazy fella. But he brought some of those. He

1943
01:42:01,880 --> 01:42:05,280
Speaker 2: had some of those amazing, you know, amazing vocal mics

1944
01:42:05,280 --> 01:42:07,880
Speaker 2: with them. But I mean there was, like I said,

1945
01:42:07,880 --> 01:42:09,920
Speaker 2: we had we had demoed out pretty you know, we

1946
01:42:10,000 --> 01:42:13,360
Speaker 2: knew the songs, so we had demoed out pretty good.

1947
01:42:13,360 --> 01:42:16,080
Speaker 2: But uh, there was a lot of where and I

1948
01:42:16,080 --> 01:42:19,479
Speaker 2: think I think where he's just incredibly special, especially with

1949
01:42:19,560 --> 01:42:23,120
Speaker 2: our band, was there were a few songs I was like,

1950
01:42:23,160 --> 01:42:25,439
Speaker 2: the arrangement just wasn't right, you know what I mean,

1951
01:42:25,479 --> 01:42:28,960
Speaker 2: It just wasn't right. And like any great producer would do,

1952
01:42:29,680 --> 01:42:32,040
Speaker 2: he was like, hey, this isn't right. Let's and we

1953
01:42:32,360 --> 01:42:34,280
Speaker 2: experimented and then we found the right and it was

1954
01:42:34,320 --> 01:42:37,960
Speaker 2: like it made the song good to great and that

1955
01:42:37,960 --> 01:42:39,599
Speaker 2: that's what was really special about it.

1956
01:42:40,520 --> 01:42:42,800
Speaker 1: And those are the arrangements. How about you wrote some

1957
01:42:42,960 --> 01:42:44,600
Speaker 1: songs with him? The are the ones you wrote with

1958
01:42:44,600 --> 01:42:47,040
Speaker 1: the band? Did he give any input and change to

1959
01:42:47,080 --> 01:42:47,799
Speaker 1: the other songs?

1960
01:42:48,040 --> 01:42:50,519
Speaker 2: I mean it was his, That's that was the thing

1961
01:42:50,520 --> 01:42:52,800
Speaker 2: that me and him talked about was like, this is

1962
01:42:52,840 --> 01:42:55,719
Speaker 2: your record. You are producing this record. There's not band

1963
01:42:55,800 --> 01:42:59,720
Speaker 2: songs or egg songs. I think only two ex me

1964
01:42:59,760 --> 01:43:05,920
Speaker 2: and songs ended up on the record. And he he

1965
01:43:05,920 --> 01:43:07,879
Speaker 2: he is an like I said, he's a very interesting

1966
01:43:07,920 --> 01:43:13,760
Speaker 2: person because he knows what he wants and so he

1967
01:43:13,760 --> 01:43:15,280
Speaker 2: he's like, my name is gonna be on this, Like

1968
01:43:15,320 --> 01:43:18,599
Speaker 2: he put input on everything, which I it was great.

1969
01:43:18,640 --> 01:43:21,080
Speaker 2: It's great to be challenged. I think at this point

1970
01:43:21,120 --> 01:43:23,519
Speaker 2: when you you get kind of fat and happy, right

1971
01:43:24,200 --> 01:43:25,920
Speaker 2: and you think, oh, yeah, I know what to do.

1972
01:43:26,000 --> 01:43:28,120
Speaker 2: I've been doing this now a few times, and it's like, no,

1973
01:43:28,240 --> 01:43:30,360
Speaker 2: I like, I like when people challenging. You know, they

1974
01:43:30,360 --> 01:43:33,919
Speaker 2: don't have to be assholes, but I like getting challenged

1975
01:43:33,960 --> 01:43:36,519
Speaker 2: a bit. And you know, and I think he definitely

1976
01:43:36,520 --> 01:43:41,760
Speaker 2: did that for everybody in a very uh British way.

1977
01:43:43,000 --> 01:43:44,960
Speaker 1: Go a little deeper, tell me more.

1978
01:43:45,600 --> 01:43:48,519
Speaker 2: Well, I mean he would he would I never forget

1979
01:43:48,520 --> 01:43:52,280
Speaker 2: like vocal producers like him doing vocals with me and

1980
01:43:52,320 --> 01:43:55,479
Speaker 2: he would uh he would say, oh, you know, he would.

1981
01:43:55,680 --> 01:43:58,320
Speaker 2: We would talk about soft and hard and he's like, no,

1982
01:43:58,360 --> 01:43:59,760
Speaker 2: you need to open up more. You need to be

1983
01:43:59,800 --> 01:44:02,240
Speaker 2: a little bit off tune here, you know what I mean? Like,

1984
01:44:02,280 --> 01:44:04,439
Speaker 2: which I was like, who in the hell tells you that?

1985
01:44:05,040 --> 01:44:07,599
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying? Like like, but he was like,

1986
01:44:07,840 --> 01:44:10,560
Speaker 2: it has more feeling there, that has more you know

1987
01:44:10,600 --> 01:44:12,360
Speaker 2: what I mean? And he's like, you know, and I

1988
01:44:12,400 --> 01:44:15,840
Speaker 2: could do head to chest really quick. And so we

1989
01:44:15,920 --> 01:44:17,679
Speaker 2: had to make that debate like all right, we're going

1990
01:44:17,720 --> 01:44:20,160
Speaker 2: through the through the head voice, but let's you know,

1991
01:44:20,400 --> 01:44:23,920
Speaker 2: can you go sweep into from head to voice kind

1992
01:44:23,920 --> 01:44:25,760
Speaker 2: of you know what I mean? Like all sorts of

1993
01:44:25,760 --> 01:44:28,400
Speaker 2: stuff is a vocal producer that I was like, this

1994
01:44:28,439 --> 01:44:32,040
Speaker 2: is a new level. Cause sometimes this isn't anock only boby,

1995
01:44:32,040 --> 01:44:34,920
Speaker 2: but sometimes I go they they either he did he's

1996
01:44:34,960 --> 01:44:37,880
Speaker 2: singing and go oh well that's great, and it's like, okay,

1997
01:44:37,960 --> 01:44:40,240
Speaker 2: well if I can do that, then i'd have done

1998
01:44:40,240 --> 01:44:42,479
Speaker 2: that on my own. I need someone to go, hey,

1999
01:44:42,479 --> 01:44:45,080
Speaker 2: can you you know what I mean? And he really did.

2000
01:44:45,080 --> 01:44:47,479
Speaker 2: I know, he challenged me, which I loved. I loved

2001
01:44:47,479 --> 01:44:51,440
Speaker 2: getting you know what I mean, I really did.

2002
01:44:50,640 --> 01:44:51,959
Speaker 1: And what'd you do for an engineer?

2003
01:44:52,479 --> 01:44:54,479
Speaker 2: We got Matt ross Bang, who had produced the last

2004
01:44:54,520 --> 01:44:58,040
Speaker 2: two records, which Matt ross Bang is an I mean

2005
01:44:58,280 --> 01:45:01,040
Speaker 2: if you want someone. That's what we were trying to do.

2006
01:45:02,200 --> 01:45:03,720
Speaker 2: Because we had no idea how it was going to

2007
01:45:03,800 --> 01:45:06,480
Speaker 2: go with Egg, we it could have been a complete disaster,

2008
01:45:07,120 --> 01:45:08,880
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. And so I had to

2009
01:45:08,880 --> 01:45:11,400
Speaker 2: ask Matt Is, like, hey man, can you come in

2010
01:45:11,479 --> 01:45:15,479
Speaker 2: and and like just make sure that this you know,

2011
01:45:15,920 --> 01:45:19,160
Speaker 2: and because he had done engineering with Dave Cobb and

2012
01:45:19,280 --> 01:45:21,400
Speaker 2: you know, he's producing now and he produced our other

2013
01:45:21,439 --> 01:45:24,599
Speaker 2: records and we're we're you know, we're friends outside of this,

2014
01:45:25,439 --> 01:45:27,679
Speaker 2: and which you know, I didn't know how he'd feel,

2015
01:45:27,720 --> 01:45:31,720
Speaker 2: but he was. MAT's Matt's amazing and I knew that

2016
01:45:31,960 --> 01:45:34,559
Speaker 2: organic part that we wanted to capture because we didn't

2017
01:45:34,560 --> 01:45:37,519
Speaker 2: want it to be a super polished record. Matt being there,

2018
01:45:37,520 --> 01:45:40,640
Speaker 2: I knew would help that process. But we didn't know

2019
01:45:40,640 --> 01:45:43,760
Speaker 2: how Egg and Matt would work. We didn't know. We

2020
01:45:43,800 --> 01:45:45,480
Speaker 2: didn't know if that was going to be a disaster,

2021
01:45:47,640 --> 01:45:49,880
Speaker 2: but it ended up being in the studio one of

2022
01:45:49,920 --> 01:45:51,320
Speaker 2: the best experiences I've ever had.

2023
01:45:52,200 --> 01:45:55,760
Speaker 1: What did uh Matt say about being demoted?

2024
01:45:57,080 --> 01:45:59,559
Speaker 2: He did? He It was one of those one of

2025
01:45:59,560 --> 01:46:02,559
Speaker 2: those that you're like, I I and I for me,

2026
01:46:02,600 --> 01:46:04,600
Speaker 2: I was like I understand whatever he says, do you

2027
01:46:04,640 --> 01:46:05,880
Speaker 2: know what I mean if he's like, hey, man, no,

2028
01:46:06,000 --> 01:46:08,559
Speaker 2: I've I've produced the last couple of records, Like I

2029
01:46:08,600 --> 01:46:11,600
Speaker 2: just feel like maybe that's not my thing. But but

2030
01:46:11,680 --> 01:46:13,880
Speaker 2: I was like, I have to make the call because

2031
01:46:14,479 --> 01:46:18,720
Speaker 2: I know he's a great fit. And and then he

2032
01:46:18,760 --> 01:46:21,080
Speaker 2: gets compensated for it, right like it's a it's a gig.

2033
01:46:21,200 --> 01:46:24,840
Speaker 2: So uh, he was Matt. You'd have to know Matt.

2034
01:46:25,080 --> 01:46:27,880
Speaker 2: He he's a he's a good dude, and and it

2035
01:46:27,960 --> 01:46:30,200
Speaker 2: was a but yeah, no, I mean I definitely I

2036
01:46:30,479 --> 01:46:32,599
Speaker 2: didn't I thought he would say no. I mean I did,

2037
01:46:32,640 --> 01:46:34,760
Speaker 2: because he had produced the last two records and done

2038
01:46:34,760 --> 01:46:37,400
Speaker 2: a phenomenal job. It was just with the egg stuff

2039
01:46:37,400 --> 01:46:39,000
Speaker 2: having we didn't know how many of the X songs

2040
01:46:39,000 --> 01:46:40,360
Speaker 2: were going to be on there, and we just thought

2041
01:46:40,400 --> 01:46:43,320
Speaker 2: it was a it was an interesting fit and uh

2042
01:46:43,400 --> 01:46:45,200
Speaker 2: and we never knew I didn't know how Matt would

2043
01:46:45,200 --> 01:46:49,200
Speaker 2: act or react, and Matt's amazing and and and just

2044
01:46:50,600 --> 01:46:54,040
Speaker 2: to make that work was a really was was I'm ill.

2045
01:46:54,080 --> 01:46:55,240
Speaker 2: I'll be eternally grateful.

2046
01:46:56,680 --> 01:46:58,800
Speaker 1: Okay, how long ago was the record cut?

2047
01:47:00,040 --> 01:47:04,280
Speaker 2: When did we cut this thing? January? So how do

2048
01:47:04,320 --> 01:47:04,960
Speaker 2: you feel.

2049
01:47:04,680 --> 01:47:07,000
Speaker 1: About waiting almost a year for the record to come.

2050
01:47:06,840 --> 01:47:13,000
Speaker 2: Out, buddy, that is it is torture. It is torture.

2051
01:47:13,040 --> 01:47:15,519
Speaker 2: I mean we went through this thing because it took

2052
01:47:15,600 --> 01:47:19,320
Speaker 2: us a while to get the sound right, you know,

2053
01:47:19,400 --> 01:47:22,360
Speaker 2: we just because we did it that way. It took

2054
01:47:22,439 --> 01:47:26,040
Speaker 2: us a long time to get the mixing right and

2055
01:47:26,240 --> 01:47:29,479
Speaker 2: wear everything laid. And Egg, once again, is a very

2056
01:47:29,479 --> 01:47:32,759
Speaker 2: particular person, so it took a long time. And Egg's

2057
01:47:32,760 --> 01:47:36,240
Speaker 2: also super busy. You know, he's doing writing sessions constantly,

2058
01:47:36,280 --> 01:47:39,320
Speaker 2: so figuring out his schedule and the mats producing stuff

2059
01:47:39,360 --> 01:47:42,720
Speaker 2: and all of that intertwining. It took much longer than

2060
01:47:42,760 --> 01:47:46,600
Speaker 2: we thought. So we debated. We were like, okay, we

2061
01:47:46,680 --> 01:47:50,720
Speaker 2: thought the thing would be out by May or you

2062
01:47:50,760 --> 01:47:54,599
Speaker 2: know whatever, and just that process took a long time.

2063
01:47:54,680 --> 01:47:57,960
Speaker 2: I mean, what's been beautiful about this is it feels

2064
01:47:58,000 --> 01:47:59,920
Speaker 2: worth it. If it didn't feel worth it, I'd be

2065
01:48:00,280 --> 01:48:02,320
Speaker 2: really upset. But we were gonna do a fall tour,

2066
01:48:03,000 --> 01:48:05,840
Speaker 2: you know, album release tour, and then we kicked it

2067
01:48:05,880 --> 01:48:11,360
Speaker 2: to the spring. We're doing the European European UK tour

2068
01:48:11,400 --> 01:48:14,920
Speaker 2: and in the winter, so like we this I I

2069
01:48:15,000 --> 01:48:17,000
Speaker 2: was supposed to not have time for stuff like this

2070
01:48:17,000 --> 01:48:20,160
Speaker 2: this time of year, but it's just how it fell.

2071
01:48:21,080 --> 01:48:23,559
Speaker 1: Economically, you guys can afford to stay home.

2072
01:48:26,280 --> 01:48:29,840
Speaker 2: It's funny you asked that. I'll tell you this. It's

2073
01:48:29,880 --> 01:48:33,880
Speaker 2: been a lot of Aldie and Turkey sandwiches. Uh, that's

2074
01:48:33,880 --> 01:48:38,120
Speaker 2: a that's just where we're at. But uh, we we

2075
01:48:38,120 --> 01:48:40,000
Speaker 2: we we make it work. We can make it work.

2076
01:48:40,040 --> 01:48:43,240
Speaker 2: We're we're we're doing the best we can as far

2077
01:48:43,240 --> 01:48:47,320
Speaker 2: as that goes. Like I said, it's affordable to live here,

2078
01:48:47,400 --> 01:48:51,080
Speaker 2: so it makes it. But yeah, you you talk about

2079
01:48:51,200 --> 01:48:53,920
Speaker 2: thinking you're doing a fall tour and then moving it

2080
01:48:53,960 --> 01:48:58,719
Speaker 2: to the spring. Yeah, economically that was like who okay, Oki,

2081
01:48:59,280 --> 01:49:00,840
Speaker 2: But I do think it's the right decision. You just

2082
01:49:00,880 --> 01:49:01,719
Speaker 2: got to figure it out.

2083
01:49:03,000 --> 01:49:05,839
Speaker 1: And what does the band mean in the UK and Europe?

2084
01:49:07,320 --> 01:49:10,280
Speaker 2: Well, uh, the good thing is they're going to service

2085
01:49:10,360 --> 01:49:12,280
Speaker 2: the record this time. We've had a few of those

2086
01:49:12,400 --> 01:49:15,960
Speaker 2: where they haven't serviced the record over there. It's been

2087
01:49:16,000 --> 01:49:18,559
Speaker 2: a trial over there. We haven't given up on it.

2088
01:49:20,720 --> 01:49:26,679
Speaker 2: We break even. I do. I'm very optimistic about this record.

2089
01:49:26,880 --> 01:49:30,240
Speaker 2: I'll just I don't Maybe it's just me being a

2090
01:49:30,240 --> 01:49:33,000
Speaker 2: hopeless romantic, but we you know, we can sell two

2091
01:49:33,040 --> 01:49:37,400
Speaker 2: thousand tickets in London. We sell you know, close to

2092
01:49:37,439 --> 01:49:43,840
Speaker 2: two thousand in Amsterdam. So we can do okay, But

2093
01:49:44,400 --> 01:49:48,120
Speaker 2: we've had a few records where just nobody's really worked them,

2094
01:49:48,360 --> 01:49:49,880
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like I can't tell you

2095
01:49:49,960 --> 01:49:53,280
Speaker 2: that I mean, and which is always really frustrating because

2096
01:49:53,520 --> 01:49:55,519
Speaker 2: that is a market for us that can be something,

2097
01:49:56,720 --> 01:49:57,439
Speaker 2: but it just hasn't.

2098
01:49:57,560 --> 01:49:59,599
Speaker 1: So how many tickets do you sell in the US?

2099
01:50:00,040 --> 01:50:01,280
Speaker 1: What kind of venues.

2100
01:50:02,960 --> 01:50:05,599
Speaker 2: We I mean, we can sell. I mean it depends.

2101
01:50:05,600 --> 01:50:08,679
Speaker 2: It's gone down a little bit, but we can sell

2102
01:50:09,920 --> 01:50:11,800
Speaker 2: we I mean, like we sold out the Beacon Theater

2103
01:50:11,880 --> 01:50:14,799
Speaker 2: last time we played in New York, which is nothing

2104
01:50:14,800 --> 01:50:18,400
Speaker 2: to sniff at. Right in the South, we can sell

2105
01:50:18,439 --> 01:50:21,920
Speaker 2: some tickets, which is not typical of a ton of

2106
01:50:22,000 --> 01:50:26,080
Speaker 2: artists unless your country. So I would say we're in

2107
01:50:26,160 --> 01:50:33,360
Speaker 2: that like three to fifteen hundred one thousand range.

2108
01:50:33,640 --> 01:50:38,680
Speaker 1: Okay, Now the record's going to come out. What's going

2109
01:50:38,760 --> 01:50:41,960
Speaker 1: to be different from any other record? And what are

2110
01:50:42,000 --> 01:50:45,080
Speaker 1: your hopes this time around? And what are people doing

2111
01:50:45,400 --> 01:50:47,840
Speaker 1: that they're not doing before? Other than social media?

2112
01:50:48,400 --> 01:50:51,040
Speaker 2: Well, I mean we've had some people write about sushi

2113
01:50:51,040 --> 01:50:51,719
Speaker 2: and Coca cola.

2114
01:50:52,600 --> 01:50:54,000
Speaker 1: Yeah I heard about that.

2115
01:50:54,160 --> 01:50:56,920
Speaker 2: Did you hear about that? Uh? Yeah, we've had I

2116
01:50:56,960 --> 01:50:58,479
Speaker 2: told I told I told our team. I was like,

2117
01:50:58,479 --> 01:51:00,240
Speaker 2: we just need to make that the bio. That's about

2118
01:51:00,240 --> 01:51:03,240
Speaker 2: the best description. It was scary how these things were

2119
01:51:03,280 --> 01:51:05,000
Speaker 2: right about it. We were like, oh, I got especially

2120
01:51:05,000 --> 01:51:10,200
Speaker 2: you brought up money. He's like, yep, he's right. But

2121
01:51:10,240 --> 01:51:12,360
Speaker 2: we had that which you know, it's funny I heard,

2122
01:51:12,560 --> 01:51:14,720
Speaker 2: you know, I heard a lot about that, as you

2123
01:51:14,760 --> 01:51:21,479
Speaker 2: can imagine. I think, you know it's I mean, you

2124
01:51:21,560 --> 01:51:24,160
Speaker 2: know this, and you're in this. You're what makes a

2125
01:51:24,160 --> 01:51:26,479
Speaker 2: difference anymore. And I really don't know. What I have

2126
01:51:26,920 --> 01:51:29,200
Speaker 2: come to realize is that you just build your own mountain.

2127
01:51:30,280 --> 01:51:33,120
Speaker 2: And whether it's through social media or YouTube or whatever

2128
01:51:33,160 --> 01:51:37,440
Speaker 2: it might be, you build your own mountain, okay, and

2129
01:51:38,400 --> 01:51:42,160
Speaker 2: building your own mountain. Just get good at that. And

2130
01:51:42,600 --> 01:51:44,400
Speaker 2: I think for us, we have a bunch of live

2131
01:51:44,439 --> 01:51:47,120
Speaker 2: stuff that were released, like as far as performances that

2132
01:51:47,160 --> 01:51:51,479
Speaker 2: were releasing around the record were you know, radio stuff

2133
01:51:51,520 --> 01:51:54,000
Speaker 2: is doing well triple A. But once again, I don't

2134
01:51:54,040 --> 01:51:58,240
Speaker 2: know what that means anymore. Some of the streaming numbers

2135
01:51:58,240 --> 01:52:00,400
Speaker 2: have been good, like in our world, been good. It's

2136
01:52:00,439 --> 01:52:02,960
Speaker 2: not like it's you know, you know what I'm saying.

2137
01:52:03,080 --> 01:52:05,000
Speaker 2: I will say this though we've had two records like

2138
01:52:05,920 --> 01:52:08,439
Speaker 2: I know what momentum, A little momentum feels like, and

2139
01:52:08,439 --> 01:52:09,960
Speaker 2: I know what it you know, I know what no

2140
01:52:10,040 --> 01:52:12,439
Speaker 2: momentum feels like. And I will say there's a little

2141
01:52:12,479 --> 01:52:16,679
Speaker 2: momentum with this that feels good, especially in the UK

2142
01:52:17,000 --> 01:52:20,680
Speaker 2: and EU, and that's that's a much better feeling. I'll

2143
01:52:20,680 --> 01:52:25,240
Speaker 2: say that. I think that this record we have for

2144
01:52:25,320 --> 01:52:29,400
Speaker 2: the longest done a like conceptual records, like where there's

2145
01:52:29,400 --> 01:52:31,720
Speaker 2: a concept that we kind of build around it, so

2146
01:52:31,760 --> 01:52:34,000
Speaker 2: it's not as much it's more about the concept than

2147
01:52:34,000 --> 01:52:37,040
Speaker 2: it is maybe the songs. And we approach this record

2148
01:52:37,040 --> 01:52:41,519
Speaker 2: as like every song needs to be the song, build

2149
01:52:41,520 --> 01:52:43,960
Speaker 2: it that way, and we've funny enough, I know, this

2150
01:52:44,080 --> 01:52:47,040
Speaker 2: is crazy. We've never built a record that way. It's

2151
01:52:47,080 --> 01:52:49,280
Speaker 2: always been like, well, what's the vibe, how's the vibe fit?

2152
01:52:49,320 --> 01:52:54,040
Speaker 2: It's like, no best song wins, So the ten best

2153
01:52:54,080 --> 01:52:56,840
Speaker 2: songs And that's how we've written the record, which is

2154
01:52:57,520 --> 01:52:59,600
Speaker 2: I know it's counter to what a lot of people do,

2155
01:52:59,680 --> 01:53:02,840
Speaker 2: but that's or you know, usually that's how most people

2156
01:53:02,880 --> 01:53:04,599
Speaker 2: write records. But that's the first time we've ever really

2157
01:53:04,600 --> 01:53:06,280
Speaker 2: done that. And so that's what we did.

2158
01:53:07,920 --> 01:53:09,639
Speaker 1: Well, you know, I was going to ask you some questions.

2159
01:53:09,680 --> 01:53:13,760
Speaker 1: You answered about today's you know, crazy landscape. But you

2160
01:53:13,840 --> 01:53:16,840
Speaker 1: have to build your own mountain. You know exactly what's

2161
01:53:16,880 --> 01:53:18,920
Speaker 1: going on. It's you know, it's hard to feel what's

2162
01:53:18,960 --> 01:53:24,080
Speaker 1: going on. Spoke about momentum. I think we've covered it, Paul,

2163
01:53:24,880 --> 01:53:27,600
Speaker 1: it's been great talking to you. As I said earlier,

2164
01:53:28,000 --> 01:53:31,639
Speaker 1: you never knew who somebody is in or talk to him.

2165
01:53:31,720 --> 01:53:33,320
Speaker 2: What I have to ask what did you What did

2166
01:53:33,360 --> 01:53:34,800
Speaker 2: you think I will? What did you think?

2167
01:53:40,520 --> 01:53:45,240
Speaker 1: You're a guy who's dynamic on stage. You have to

2168
01:53:45,360 --> 01:53:47,640
Speaker 1: work yourself up to do that. I mean, there's some

2169
01:53:47,720 --> 01:53:53,000
Speaker 1: instinctive thing, but it's a performance, right, as you say, entertainment. Right.

2170
01:53:53,080 --> 01:53:58,360
Speaker 1: If let's just assume you Paul went to visit teenage

2171
01:53:58,479 --> 01:54:03,599
Speaker 1: Paul and Chelsea, someone who knew nothing. Okay, I said.

2172
01:54:03,439 --> 01:54:05,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm in this band. We play around the world.

2173
01:54:06,439 --> 01:54:11,760
Speaker 3: People say you, yeah, you know, you're not that guy.

2174
01:54:11,640 --> 01:54:13,720
Speaker 1: You know, blah blah blah blah. Boy, You're You're just

2175
01:54:13,880 --> 01:54:18,680
Speaker 1: like me, so you know. And the other thing is

2176
01:54:20,400 --> 01:54:23,080
Speaker 1: a lot of people are road weary.

2177
01:54:23,240 --> 01:54:27,040
Speaker 3: They've been doing it so long that everything's kind of

2178
01:54:27,080 --> 01:54:29,200
Speaker 3: like punching the clock. I mean, people are not gonna

2179
01:54:29,200 --> 01:54:32,080
Speaker 3: We had some technical issues at the beginning. You know,

2180
01:54:33,320 --> 01:54:35,360
Speaker 3: you could have been oh man, I I you know,

2181
01:54:35,400 --> 01:54:38,240
Speaker 3: we had a start time. Now you know we're slipping.

2182
01:54:38,840 --> 01:54:41,880
Speaker 3: I got to you know, uh jr cough later. I mean,

2183
01:54:41,960 --> 01:54:44,080
Speaker 3: come on, so.

2184
01:54:44,160 --> 01:54:46,640
Speaker 1: You're like, oh yeah, cool man, We're gonna work it out.

2185
01:54:47,200 --> 01:54:49,240
Speaker 3: I mean, I you know, I don't you know, you

2186
01:54:49,320 --> 01:54:51,800
Speaker 3: got a big operation, you got a big band, you

2187
01:54:51,880 --> 01:54:55,000
Speaker 3: got a wife and and a kid.

2188
01:54:55,280 --> 01:54:58,920
Speaker 1: But you're a friendly guy. I mean, you know, you

2189
01:54:59,000 --> 01:55:01,160
Speaker 1: meet somebody that's a good guy.

2190
01:55:01,240 --> 01:55:03,280
Speaker 2: Like to hang with it. Yeah yeah, I mean seriously,

2191
01:55:03,320 --> 01:55:05,600
Speaker 2: Like for me, I know this is crazy, but I

2192
01:55:05,640 --> 01:55:09,200
Speaker 2: actually love love. I mean I worked on paving cruise.

2193
01:55:09,240 --> 01:55:09,440
Speaker 1: Man.

2194
01:55:10,000 --> 01:55:13,200
Speaker 2: I love what I do, and I will that this

2195
01:55:13,360 --> 01:55:15,760
Speaker 2: beat the shit out of that on my on my

2196
01:55:15,840 --> 01:55:17,680
Speaker 2: worst day of this, it's still better than my best

2197
01:55:17,720 --> 01:55:20,000
Speaker 2: day on that and I it doesn't feel that long ago,

2198
01:55:20,440 --> 01:55:23,080
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. But but no, I appreciate it,

2199
01:55:23,120 --> 01:55:26,360
Speaker 2: and I want to say I do appreciate what you wrote. Uh.

2200
01:55:26,520 --> 01:55:29,760
Speaker 2: I heard from a lot of industry people and it

2201
01:55:29,880 --> 01:55:33,760
Speaker 2: was really funny because I was I told him that,

2202
01:55:34,000 --> 01:55:35,520
Speaker 2: I was like, that might be one of the most

2203
01:55:35,520 --> 01:55:36,640
Speaker 2: glowing things.

2204
01:55:37,080 --> 01:55:37,200
Speaker 3: Uh.

2205
01:55:37,440 --> 01:55:40,360
Speaker 2: I've ever seen them rit and I really appreciated that

2206
01:55:40,600 --> 01:55:43,240
Speaker 2: it I'll tell I'll tell you for the band and everything,

2207
01:55:43,760 --> 01:55:46,280
Speaker 2: it meant a lot. It meant like it was the

2208
01:55:46,320 --> 01:55:49,160
Speaker 2: sign of like, Okay, at least somebody gets it. And

2209
01:55:49,480 --> 01:55:51,480
Speaker 2: it felt really good. So just letting you know.

2210
01:55:52,640 --> 01:55:55,200
Speaker 1: That makes me smile. But I'll just reiterate, you know,

2211
01:55:55,960 --> 01:55:59,440
Speaker 1: totally honest, totally how I felt. I was just listening

2212
01:55:59,480 --> 01:56:02,160
Speaker 1: to the song and I had those feelings and no

2213
01:56:02,200 --> 01:56:04,880
Speaker 1: one was paying me, no one. I hadn't met you before,

2214
01:56:05,480 --> 01:56:09,040
Speaker 1: But that's what we're all looking for. This is what

2215
01:56:09,160 --> 01:56:12,240
Speaker 1: people say, Oh the odds are stacked against me, et cetera,

2216
01:56:12,280 --> 01:56:16,480
Speaker 1: et cetera. If anybody he's something they really think is great,

2217
01:56:16,520 --> 01:56:17,960
Speaker 1: they want to tell everybody about it.

2218
01:56:18,080 --> 01:56:18,320
Speaker 2: Right.

2219
01:56:18,640 --> 01:56:20,800
Speaker 1: It's like, hey, I found this because so much of

2220
01:56:20,840 --> 01:56:22,720
Speaker 1: the stuff is just mediocre.

2221
01:56:22,800 --> 01:56:25,960
Speaker 2: I know. I'm with you, I'm with you, I hear you.

2222
01:56:26,040 --> 01:56:28,440
Speaker 2: I just know it was I'm just saying. And it

2223
01:56:28,720 --> 01:56:30,520
Speaker 2: made it to the group thread and everyone was just

2224
01:56:31,040 --> 01:56:33,280
Speaker 2: you know, it's validating in a way. Do you know

2225
01:56:33,320 --> 01:56:35,320
Speaker 2: what I mean? Because you know what you know this

2226
01:56:35,440 --> 01:56:38,360
Speaker 2: like what we do doesn't make economic sense and we

2227
01:56:38,440 --> 01:56:40,680
Speaker 2: make it work, but we do it because we feel

2228
01:56:40,680 --> 01:56:42,640
Speaker 2: like it's the best thing to do, and that's that's

2229
01:56:42,640 --> 01:56:45,040
Speaker 2: a it's a validay, so I appreciate that.

2230
01:56:45,920 --> 01:56:47,200
Speaker 1: Well, that's the last word.

2231
01:56:47,280 --> 01:56:47,520
Speaker 3: Paul.

2232
01:56:47,600 --> 01:56:49,760
Speaker 1: I want to thank you for talking to my audience,

2233
01:56:49,800 --> 01:56:53,640
Speaker 1: taking this time till next time. This is Bob left

2234
01:56:53,680 --> 01:56:53,960
Speaker 1: such