1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Best. Bloomberg Best is about the insight 2 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:06,480 Speaker 1: and the context that we get from our guests. It's 3 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:07,880 Speaker 1: a great way to catch up on some of the 4 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 1: stories you might have missed on the Bloomberg stories you're 5 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: not going to find in any other news organizations. Bloomberg 6 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:18,440 Speaker 1: Best Bloomberg's Best stories of the week, powered by twenty 7 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 1: seven hundred journalists and ennalysts in more than a hundred 8 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:24,320 Speaker 1: twenty countries around the world. I met Baxter and I'm 9 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: Denease Pelly Green. On this weekend edition of Bloomberg Best. 10 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: I had my food awakening where I really understood for 11 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:35,200 Speaker 1: the first time that what you a affected how you felt. 12 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 1: John McKee, CEO of All Foods, asked my girlfriend living 13 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 1: in the cow off whe her we ought to start 14 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:44,200 Speaker 1: up our own little store, and she said she thought 15 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:47,240 Speaker 1: that would be a lot of fun cool the birth 16 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:50,960 Speaker 1: of the nation's biggest natural foods change turned out there 17 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: it wasn't just selling food to hippies, and how it 18 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 1: turned out to be so much bigger. All this and 19 00:00:57,080 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 1: more coming up in the next hour of Bloomberg Best. 20 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: All right, I want to get right to it, because 21 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 1: what a story let's go back now to Austin, Texas. Yeah, 22 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: and David Rubinstein asked John Mackie what propelled him to 23 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:19,760 Speaker 1: start Safer Way and then Whole Foods after dabbling at 24 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 1: being a college student. And here's what Mackie said on 25 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: the David Rubinstein Show Peer to Peer Conversations. What propelled 26 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 1: you to start Safer Way and then Whole Foods. I mean, 27 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 1: you were at the University of Texas, and did you 28 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:33,319 Speaker 1: drop out to do this? I dropped out of school 29 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:36,480 Speaker 1: like six times. I've got a hundred twenty hours of electives. 30 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: I just study whatever I was interested in. But I 31 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: did not drop out to start this company. I was 32 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 1: living in a vegetarian co op when I was twenty 33 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 1: three years old, and that's when I had my food awakening, 34 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 1: where I really understood for the first time that what 35 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: you ate affected how you felt and your health and 36 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: your longevity. And then I became the food buyer at 37 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: that co op. And then I went to work for 38 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 1: a small natural food store in Austin, and I had 39 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 1: found the purpose of my life. I was on fire 40 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 1: for healthy eating, organic and natural foods. Came home one 41 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:12,519 Speaker 1: day and asked my girlfriend living in the co op 42 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: whetherr we ought to start up our own little store, 43 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:17,680 Speaker 1: and she said she thought that would be a lot 44 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 1: of fun. Cool and uh. Six months later, we'd raised 45 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 1: forty dollars from friends and family and we found a location, 46 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: a small store location in Austin, and we were in business. 47 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 1: So when you started the company, though, did you have 48 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,120 Speaker 1: the vision of building a global or national company or 49 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: did you just say I'll do a couple of stores. 50 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:40,640 Speaker 1: What was your original vision? Original vision was to break even. 51 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 1: We were losing the month when we started out. The 52 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 1: first year, we raised forty dollars in capital. We managed 53 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 1: to lose twenty three thousand of it, so we were 54 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 1: lucky to survive. We did much better in the second year, 55 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 1: relocated two Whole Foods. No, we had no grand vision. 56 00:02:56,880 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 1: The best way to understand it is we were just 57 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 1: passion and about selling natural, organic foods. There was no 58 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 1: we weren't. We weren't. We didn't take any business classes. 59 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 1: We we didn't have we weren't NBA's. We just were passionate. 60 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:13,520 Speaker 1: We were on five. We were young. I was twenty 61 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 1: four years old when we started the first store. Renee 62 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 1: was twenty, so we were just having an adventure. We 63 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 1: were we were playing and having a grocery store. It 64 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: was so much fun. And then and then we started 65 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 1: learning business and we've got pretty good at it, and 66 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: then we started to grow it. I will tell you 67 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 1: a story, David. So when we did our I p O. 68 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:34,520 Speaker 1: You know, one of the things that the investors want 69 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 1: to know. They're trying to build a model of your company, 70 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 1: so they want to know what's the potential. How big 71 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 1: could it be. We had twelve stores when we I 72 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 1: p O. And I thought, I think we could sunday 73 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 1: have a hundred stores, and uh, you know, we might 74 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 1: even someday, we might even be able to do maybe 75 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 1: maybe a billion dollars in sales. Someday someday we could 76 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 1: have that. And they weren't. They weren't that impressed with that. 77 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 1: They didn't think that was gonna be that bigger company. 78 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 1: And of course, you know, we're doing twenty billion in 79 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 1: sales now, I would have five twenty stores or thereabouts. 80 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 1: So I was very wrong about the upward potential of 81 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 1: the business at the time. Um, when you were doing 82 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: this in seventy eight. In the early eighties was natural 83 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:17,280 Speaker 1: food and well known as what natural food was organic foods. 84 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 1: What what we're what weren't the view of them. Then 85 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 1: when we were trying to raise venture capital money, I 86 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:26,360 Speaker 1: mean only we had three venture capitalists and invested, and 87 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 1: we had a dozen or more turned this down. And 88 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 1: I remember one of the guys turning me down saying, yeah, 89 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:34,159 Speaker 1: I don't think this business has much of a future. 90 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 1: I don't know why he felt so motivated to tell 91 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:38,040 Speaker 1: me why he wasn't going to invest, because usually they 92 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:40,719 Speaker 1: just say we're not interested. But he said, I want to. 93 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:42,919 Speaker 1: I want to explain to you. And he said, you 94 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 1: guys are just a bunch of hippies and you're selling 95 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 1: food to other hippies. I ran into that guy like 96 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 1: eight years later. He told me that was the biggest 97 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: mistake he'd ever made in his venture capital career. Turned 98 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 1: out that it wasn't just selling food to hippies, that 99 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 1: it caught on in the in the upper middle class 100 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:02,239 Speaker 1: US and then and then it spread from there and 101 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:05,599 Speaker 1: and uh and yeah, the rest is history. As I say, So, 102 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:07,919 Speaker 1: when you dropped out of college, did you say to 103 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 1: your father, I'm gonna be like Mark Zuckerberg er Bill Gates, 104 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: and I'm gonna build a big company, and did he 105 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:15,720 Speaker 1: have a lot of confidence in here to do that? Well. 106 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 1: Mark Zuckerberg wasn't alive when I started the company. Saw 107 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 1: he wouldn't have referred to him. And Bill Gates was 108 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:24,360 Speaker 1: just started Microsoft two years before I started a safer way, 109 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:28,159 Speaker 1: so my dad had never heard about UM. My dad 110 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:31,839 Speaker 1: was very supportive. Uh. He he was just wanted his 111 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 1: son to do something. He was passionate about that. I 112 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 1: really he could see I was very excited about this. 113 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:39,559 Speaker 1: So he was actually very supportive. In the early years, 114 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 1: he helped you somewhat as an accounting professor. He gave 115 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 1: you some advice. My dad was my mentor. Uh, since 116 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: I didn't have that business background. I always say that 117 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 1: from the year of nineteen seventy eight to nineteen ninety four, 118 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 1: I never made a move at Whole Foods without checking 119 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:58,280 Speaker 1: with my dad. In nineteen four, I turned forty years old, 120 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:02,039 Speaker 1: and uh, we'd gone public two years before, and my 121 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:04,599 Speaker 1: dad was now wealthy, you know, on pay per pose 122 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 1: with the wholefing stock that he had bought, and he 123 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 1: wanted to hold onto what he had, and I wanted 124 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 1: to grow the business. I just saw, we can really 125 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 1: grow this thing. And so we had to. We used 126 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 1: to fighting our board meetings. We were screaming each other 127 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:20,360 Speaker 1: at public board meetings. And finally I said, Dad, here, 128 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 1: here's what I want you to do. I want you 129 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:24,360 Speaker 1: to sell half of your stock tomorrow. I'm firing. I 130 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 1: don't want you on the board anymore. I want you 131 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:29,279 Speaker 1: to sell half your stock tomorrow and take the other 132 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 1: half and leave it in the company because we're gonna 133 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:34,160 Speaker 1: grow Whole Foods. It's gonna be a big enterprise someday. 134 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:36,479 Speaker 1: So he did that, very took my advice, sould half 135 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 1: the stock the next day. He was very hurt. His 136 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 1: feelings were hurt. I remember him telling me. I said, 137 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 1: I'm forty years old. I'm ready to run the company 138 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:46,920 Speaker 1: by myself without you, And he said, forty years old. 139 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:51,279 Speaker 1: You don't know anything. You're only forty, you know. It 140 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 1: turned out he was right. I didn't know very much 141 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 1: when I was forty. I know a lot more today 142 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 1: and I knew then. But he was wrong about the 143 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:00,160 Speaker 1: potential growth of Whole Foods because the company took up 144 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:02,159 Speaker 1: after that, and he made a lot more money on 145 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 1: that half that he kept in. So when you're growing 146 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 1: the company and making it a national company in a 147 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: well known brand. Was the biggest problem that people still 148 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 1: weren't convinced that natural foods and organic foods were good 149 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: for you. Was it that the price you had to 150 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 1: charge was somewhat more expensive than that's a safe way, 151 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 1: or was it the safe ways of the world that 152 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 1: we're gonna compete with you and they were gonna have 153 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 1: organic foods, or it was just getting cash from investors 154 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: to help you grow. What were the biggest problems. The 155 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:32,239 Speaker 1: biggest problem was the limitation of the marketplace. Initially because 156 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 1: it's a consciousness thing. So if when we opened up 157 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 1: in a hip area where he had a lot of uh, 158 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 1: younger sort of counterculture people the store or bohemian people, 159 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:47,240 Speaker 1: the stores would take off from the very beginning. But 160 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: we when we went into suburb, like when we opened 161 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: a store in in Greenville Avenue in Dallas, it took off. 162 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: But when we went up to Richardson, a suburb North Dallas. 163 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 1: Back this, it was really slow. The stores started really slow. 164 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: The suburban stores just didn't have enough what we'd call 165 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 1: natural food consciousness to really be successful. It took us 166 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 1: years to grow those those businesses. Now, when whole Foods 167 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 1: came along and it was very popular in many areas. 168 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: It became known in some circles as whole paychecked. I'm 169 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 1: sure you've heard that before, and so that the implication 170 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 1: was that your prices were expensive. But um, I assume 171 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 1: that your responses. But you're selling higher quality or more 172 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: complicated things, and your prices are not a big drag 173 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 1: on your overall ability to get people to come into 174 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:38,199 Speaker 1: the store. Is that right. It's a it's a very 175 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 1: good question, of course, I do hear that all the time, 176 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 1: and it's it's it's a little bit of a complex answer. 177 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 1: So for most of our history, in the forty year history, 178 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 1: we probably only got serious competition in the last fifteen years. 179 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 1: So the first twenty five years we existed, very few 180 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:58,599 Speaker 1: people sold the same products that we sold, so um, 181 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 1: there was no big deal. But then as we got 182 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:04,079 Speaker 1: more successful, we got more competition. And one of the 183 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 1: ways they competed with us was to undercut us in price. 184 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:09,440 Speaker 1: And of course, one of the things Whole Foods knows 185 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 1: it needs to do is it needs to meet the 186 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 1: competitive marketplace in terms of price, and that is one 187 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:16,599 Speaker 1: of the reasons we wanted to merge or sell the 188 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 1: Amazon is. Jeff and his team think long term. So 189 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 1: it was gonna be very difficult for us to lower 190 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:27,680 Speaker 1: our prices and hold on to our company because it 191 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 1: was when you lower prices initially, it actually hurts your 192 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:33,200 Speaker 1: sales and hurt your profitability. Something you were selling for 193 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:35,840 Speaker 1: a dollar now you're selling for ninety cents, So it 194 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 1: looks like your business is declining. Now you'll get it 195 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: back over time as people realize that they get better prices. 196 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:45,559 Speaker 1: But it's a painful transition. Now with Amazon, we've already 197 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 1: dropped our prices three times and we're gonna keep dropping them, 198 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 1: so Amazon is, and that that's another great benefit of 199 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 1: the merger for us. We are getting more and more 200 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 1: price competitive, and Amazon is willing to be patient and 201 00:09:56,720 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 1: let that play out over time. So a couple of 202 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 1: years ago, you had, as you wrote in your in 203 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 1: your book on Conscious Leadership, I hedge fund, kind of 204 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:09,439 Speaker 1: an activist Hedge fund came along and they were agitating 205 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 1: for a higher price, and ultimately you looked at some 206 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 1: about alternatives and one of them that seemed the best 207 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 1: was selling the Amazon. Is that right, that's correct. We 208 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:22,439 Speaker 1: had the activists Investor's Janna partners wanted to. I met 209 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:24,960 Speaker 1: with them and they basically said, we're gonna take over 210 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 1: your board and and we're gonna throw you out. We're 211 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 1: gonna sell the company, So why don't you just save 212 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:33,320 Speaker 1: us all a lot of a lot of anguish and 213 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:36,959 Speaker 1: just let's just agree to do that. So, of course 214 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:40,560 Speaker 1: we we didn't want to sell the company uh to 215 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 1: the highest bidder, and we had to think about our 216 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 1: different alternatives. So one was going private potentially. Another one 217 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 1: was to put the company in friendly hands like we 218 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 1: contacted Warren Buffett for example. Another one was to maybe 219 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 1: fight Janna and fight to maintain control. And then as 220 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 1: I was trying to think about what the best solution 221 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 1: and was, one morning I woke up. I just woke 222 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:05,560 Speaker 1: up and it popped in my brain, what about Amazon? 223 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:09,600 Speaker 1: What about Amazon? I've met Jeff a year before, really 224 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 1: admired him, still do. I thought these guys would be perfect. 225 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 1: I've heard they want to get into grocery business. This 226 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 1: would be a good opportunity for them to get into it. 227 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:24,560 Speaker 1: Their technology could help Aul foods. So we contacted Amazon. 228 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:27,440 Speaker 1: A couple of days later, we flew up to Seattle 229 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:30,200 Speaker 1: and met with Jeff and his team. We had an 230 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:34,040 Speaker 1: amazing first conversation lasted about three hours. It was like 231 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:36,559 Speaker 1: we were finishing each other sentences, all the things we 232 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 1: could do together. We got super excited. Just a few 233 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 1: days after that, they sent a whole team to Austin 234 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 1: to continue the conversations. Six weeks after that first meeting, 235 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 1: we signed a merger agreement. We negotiated the price, signed 236 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 1: the mergery agreement, and and we were we were on 237 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: our way. So every acquisition looks great at the time 238 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 1: you do him. Now you've had a couple of years 239 00:11:57,679 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 1: behind you. Is it working out? And are you happy 240 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 1: with you know? The metaphor I like to use for 241 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 1: a merger is it's uh, it's like a marriage, particularly 242 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 1: between big companies. So we had to love at first 243 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 1: sight in a whirlwind romance. It's a fair question to ask, 244 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 1: how's that working out now? It's about three years later now, 245 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 1: as a matter of fact, and is it perfect? You know? No, 246 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:22,320 Speaker 1: It's like I I sometimes say when people ask me 247 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:24,960 Speaker 1: this question, I said, you know, do I love absolutely 248 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 1: everything about my wife? I've been I've been married thirty 249 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:32,080 Speaker 1: years and the answer is no, I love about nine percent. 250 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 1: But it's two percent that you know it really bothers me, 251 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:36,959 Speaker 1: And I'd say it's kind of similar with Amazon. Do 252 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 1: we love everything about Ama? There's about two percent we 253 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 1: know love, but we love almost everything. Is pretty good. 254 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: That's a pretty good marriage. And in Amazon, the merger 255 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:47,720 Speaker 1: is working out great for us. We're a much better 256 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 1: company today than we were pre Amazon. So Amazon is 257 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 1: about getting people to buy things and ship into their home. 258 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 1: You've been about getting people to come into your stores 259 00:12:57,640 --> 00:12:59,320 Speaker 1: and buy a lot of things that they might see 260 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 1: while they're walking around. So is that a different kind 261 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:04,200 Speaker 1: of culture and how has it worked out in that respect? 262 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 1: There's overlapping the cultures. We're both very customer focused. There 263 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 1: are difference in cultures. But one of the things that 264 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 1: Amazon has done, which has been fantastic and one reason 265 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:18,679 Speaker 1: the mergers worked well, they respect our culture. They're not 266 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 1: trying to change our culture. Now our culture is changing 267 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 1: because we're taking on lots of attributes that Amazon has 268 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 1: and that has a change in our culture. But they're 269 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:32,200 Speaker 1: not forcing us to coercing us. We're doing it voluntarily 270 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 1: to make our company better. So that's why we're evolving. 271 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:41,560 Speaker 1: But I think in a healthy constructive way. People ask me, hey, John, 272 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 1: if you could do it all over again, would you 273 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 1: make the same decision, And the answers, yes, we make 274 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 1: the exact same decision. So I know, whenever I go 275 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 1: to Whole Foods, which is about a mile from my house, 276 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 1: and I go there very frequently, they always asked me, 277 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:54,679 Speaker 1: are you a Prime Member? So it's being Prime helped 278 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 1: a lot in your business. The Prime Membership club. High 279 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:01,560 Speaker 1: percentage of our custom as our Prime members, and so 280 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 1: they like that. Now there is a minority of customers 281 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 1: who are not and and of course every time they 282 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:08,720 Speaker 1: get asked with their prime member, of course they don't 283 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 1: necessarily like that. They keep, you know, getting asked that question. Um. 284 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 1: But on balance, remember the majority of our transactions are 285 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 1: coming from Prime members, so that's been that's been a 286 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 1: good thing for them. They're getting better prices and better deals. 287 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 1: The main way Amazon's health Toll Foods though, is technology. 288 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 1: I mean, particularly now with Covid, the amount of deliveries 289 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 1: that we're doing and pick up store pickups and deliveries, 290 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 1: I mean it's triple in the last year. I mean, 291 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 1: we're doing a large percentage of our business online now 292 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 1: and we didn't really have a small percentage before Amazon 293 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 1: acquired US. So let's talk about COVID for a moment um. 294 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 1: And COVID came, many people are worried that retail stores 295 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 1: would have to shut down, but actually food retail stores 296 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 1: have benefit, and you could argue because people need to 297 00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: eat a lot more, I guess, or at least to 298 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 1: going to the buy staples. What was it like to 299 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 1: manage under COVID at the outset. So the main thing 300 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: to understand is almost all food retailer sales are up, 301 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 1: primarily because restaurants sales are down so much. Right, people 302 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 1: aren't eating out as much, so they're eating at home 303 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 1: more and that's been good for pretty much all food retailers. 304 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 1: That's been good for whole foods as well. Maybe a 305 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 1: little bit less good for us because we do a 306 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 1: lot of prepared foods in our stores, and so that's 307 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 1: way down. People are not going to our salad bars, 308 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 1: are hot food bars, they're they're not going in our 309 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 1: offices are shut down around our stores, so we're not 310 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 1: getting that traffic that we used to get in. But 311 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 1: on the other hand, overall sales are up substantially because 312 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 1: everything else is up so much as it made the 313 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 1: way you're going to manage in the future different. Again, 314 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 1: it helps us tremendously for being online sales and so 315 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 1: and that will continue. I don't well ever, when we 316 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 1: won't go back to Once people get a taste of that, 317 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 1: they like it in Amazon if you're Prime member, delivery 318 00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 1: is free. So I think that's gonna be a permanent 319 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 1: shift for many people. You know. The hardest thing about 320 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:06,920 Speaker 1: managing the business now it's it's there's an element of fear. 321 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: Right people are scared of the virus. Everybody's masked up. 322 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 1: We would require mask for all of our team members 323 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 1: and all customers in those masks. If you're I'm in Austin. 324 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 1: It's a hundred degrees outside right now and we're in 325 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:22,560 Speaker 1: a mask around is not not very fun or pleasant 326 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 1: thing to do. Um and people have been shut down 327 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 1: in their homes and that's you know, we see what's 328 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 1: happening is unrest around the country. So it's been a 329 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 1: hard This is this is I don't know about you, 330 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 1: but I'd have to say is the weirdest year of 331 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 1: my entire life. When you go to a Whole Foods 332 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 1: anywhere in the country, you have at five hundred stores 333 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 1: or so in the country. Now, I assume you're instantly 334 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 1: recognized to have a picture of you there when you 335 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 1: walk in, so they know who you are. Now I 336 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 1: go in, I'm wearing a mask, nobody knows who I am. 337 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 1: I'm I'm gonna have a perfect disguise, but no, they've 338 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 1: recognized me, mostly because they know I'm coming. Generally, I 339 00:16:56,840 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 1: do some surprises, it's occasionally, and it's just I get 340 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 1: recognized very quickly. So when you go in and you 341 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 1: if you say, well, this is not set up the 342 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 1: right way, or you should charge something different, that they 343 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 1: listen to you. You know what I've learned, David, I've 344 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:11,679 Speaker 1: learned painfully that, uh, whether I like it or not, 345 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 1: I'm the father of Whole Foods, and the team members 346 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:18,720 Speaker 1: really want Dad to love the story. So I've learned 347 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:22,720 Speaker 1: to to sort of moderate my criticisms because they really 348 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:24,640 Speaker 1: tried to make the store look good because he knew 349 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:27,679 Speaker 1: I was coming. So I just try to stay positive 350 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:30,920 Speaker 1: and connect with the people, and then maybe after I leave, 351 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:34,159 Speaker 1: I will tell the the leadership of the region, I 352 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 1: didn't like this, this or this. You've built one of 353 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 1: the most famous companies in the United States. But you don't. 354 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:41,919 Speaker 1: You don't own a lot of it relative to what 355 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:43,880 Speaker 1: some of the other founders of large companies have done. 356 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:46,640 Speaker 1: It does that make you, uh, lose sleep at night 357 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 1: or you're okay with that? You know something I learned 358 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:53,119 Speaker 1: pretty early in life. One of the most destructive emotions 359 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:56,679 Speaker 1: there is in the world is envy. Envy will poison 360 00:17:56,760 --> 00:18:00,400 Speaker 1: your soul. I learned to deal with envy of people 361 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 1: envying me, and I learned to deal with my own 362 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 1: envy a long time ago. And it's far better to 363 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 1: to just be grateful. I've had an amazing life. I 364 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:13,480 Speaker 1: am a very wealthy man by any objective standard. So 365 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 1: other people wealthier than me. There are other entrepreneurs have 366 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:19,120 Speaker 1: made more money. So what I mean? I have everything 367 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:22,880 Speaker 1: I need or could ever want. So agreed, and those 368 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:26,399 Speaker 1: things poison our souls, and so I have. There's no 369 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 1: place for envy. I am happy for them. I'm happy 370 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 1: that they've had successful lives, and uh, yeah, so have I. 371 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:35,720 Speaker 1: Life is good. In your book, you talk about the 372 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 1: importance of a certain type of leadership where you are 373 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 1: trying to be what you call a conscious leader, which 374 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 1: is to say, worry about long term purpose of a company, 375 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:48,719 Speaker 1: not just profit. Is that right? Yes, I mean in 376 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 1: the book we talked about purpose first. Put purpose first. 377 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:56,400 Speaker 1: That that Whole Foods has always been purpose driven since 378 00:18:56,440 --> 00:19:00,359 Speaker 1: the very beginning. We always um, you know, wanted to 379 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:02,680 Speaker 1: make the world a better place and natural organic foods. 380 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:05,960 Speaker 1: You want to people lead healthy. And then what we 381 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:09,160 Speaker 1: learned over time is the importance of leading with love, 382 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 1: to care about your people. And so we have a 383 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 1: chapter about leading with love. And then we learned, of 384 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 1: course the importance of integrity in business, in life in general. 385 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:21,359 Speaker 1: Integrity is so important. You have to be you have 386 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:23,160 Speaker 1: to do what you say. You have to be trustworthy, 387 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:25,439 Speaker 1: you have to be authentic, you have to be honorable, 388 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 1: you have to have honor. When you talk a lot 389 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:29,919 Speaker 1: about the importance of culture and having a certain culture, 390 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:32,880 Speaker 1: you developed the Whole Foods culture. Has it changed under 391 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:34,960 Speaker 1: Amazon or you've been able to keep your culture? And 392 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 1: what is that culture? Well, cultures are like living there 393 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 1: like they're like living entities, and they change over time. 394 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 1: They evolve. So yes that at mergers three years ago, 395 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:50,120 Speaker 1: our culture has evolved in the last three years. But 396 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:53,880 Speaker 1: culture comes from your values, it comes from your purpose. 397 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 1: And it comes from the way you lead the company, 398 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 1: what your leadership principles are. So Whole Foods cause of 399 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 1: very healthy culture. We were named one of the Hunter 400 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:04,639 Speaker 1: Best Companies to work for for twenty consecutive years, and 401 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:07,639 Speaker 1: our culture is still very healthy. I will say Covid 402 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 1: is challenging the culture. For one thing. We can't get 403 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 1: around and visit the store so easily right now, So 404 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:16,159 Speaker 1: more stores are kind of on their own than ever before. 405 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 1: And and we're to mask every day is stressful for people, 406 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:22,160 Speaker 1: and and so there's a lot of fear. And we're 407 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 1: in urban areas, and there have been a lot of 408 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:26,960 Speaker 1: protests this summer. It's a it's a restless world out 409 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:29,640 Speaker 1: there right now. You've been the CEO of this company 410 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:32,840 Speaker 1: for forty two years. UM. Very few people are CEO 411 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 1: so have publicly traded companies or companies as large as 412 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 1: yours for that long. Is it your expectation to do 413 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 1: this another five, ten, fifteen years? Or what else might 414 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 1: you do? Would you go into government, would you run 415 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:45,439 Speaker 1: for office? Would you what else would you do? I 416 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 1: will not run for office and I will not go 417 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:50,639 Speaker 1: into governments. Think about it this way. Whole Foods is like, 418 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:54,400 Speaker 1: I don't have biological children, so Whole Foods is like 419 00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: it's for me. It's the equivalent of my child. It's 420 00:20:57,880 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 1: kind of grown up now, right, it's a it's not 421 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:03,359 Speaker 1: a Mayby anymore. But parents love their children their whole lives, 422 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 1: even when they're grown up. Um, I will leave Whole 423 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 1: Foods sometime in the next few years, but I haven't 424 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 1: announced the retirement date yet. And Covid, I'm you know, 425 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 1: Covid is it's a crisis, Like I'm dealing with the 426 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 1: crisis here for that and uh uh I always make 427 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 1: this joke that it's like, Whole Fridge is my daughter, 428 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:26,439 Speaker 1: and I literally married my daughter off to the richest 429 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 1: man in the world, and uh, I just kind of 430 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 1: came along to to make sure the marriage settled in well. 431 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 1: And I've I'm still here, but I know that the 432 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:38,159 Speaker 1: time will come eventually for me to leave. It's just 433 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:40,440 Speaker 1: not yet and I'm not quite sure when it will be. 434 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:42,359 Speaker 1: So what I tell people all the time is the 435 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:44,919 Speaker 1: hardest thing in life is to be happy. Happiness is 436 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 1: the most elusive thing in life. And you seem like 437 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:51,040 Speaker 1: a very happy person. The secret to happiness is gratitude, right, 438 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 1: you wrote that in your book, Yes, gratitude, and it 439 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:56,719 Speaker 1: was like you asked me that question earlier about you know, 440 00:21:58,000 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 1: how do you feel you could have made a lot 441 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:01,720 Speaker 1: more money as big as your corporation is. Other encouragement, 442 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:07,320 Speaker 1: more money any poisons happiness. Gratitude is the key. And 443 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 1: I'm grateful for what I have, not envious for what 444 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:12,439 Speaker 1: I don't have. I mean, I have good health, I 445 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 1: have an amazing marriage, I have great friends. I have 446 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 1: this amazing business that I'm part of. I have materially 447 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:22,600 Speaker 1: and financially everything I'll ever need. Life is blessing. It's 448 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,160 Speaker 1: I'm just so happy to be alive. It's an amazing 449 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 1: life is beautiful and amazing. And I'm just grateful every 450 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,679 Speaker 1: day and I get up happy to be alive. And 451 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 1: and uh so there you there you have that's my game. 452 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:37,120 Speaker 1: Well you should bottle that and put that in your 453 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:39,359 Speaker 1: and your stores. If I could bottle that, I would 454 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 1: be a billionaire. You've been listening to John Mackie, CEO 455 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:46,119 Speaker 1: at Whole Foods on the David Rubinstein Show peer to 456 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 1: peer conversations. And that's it for this hour of Bloomberg Best. 457 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:55,399 Speaker 1: I'm at Baxter and I'm Denny Spelton. This is Bloomberg.